1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 20 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 520       Contents: Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article Re: "inview" Article8 Re: Another Announcment - SUN will sell PCs ?? <-- Linux% Re: Backup Restore and Boot problem ?  Re: BASIC (bug?)? Re: bugcheck on boot after 7.3 ACRTL eco applied - suggestions? ? Re: bugcheck on boot after 7.3 ACRTL eco applied - suggestions?  CLD question Re: CLD question Re: CLD question Re: CLD question6 Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be)6 Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be)6 Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be)6 Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) Disaster recovery / offices  Re: Disaster recovery / offices  Re: Disaster recovery / offices  Re: Disaster recovery / offices  Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat?: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat?: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat? EDIT question. Re: EDIT question. RE: EDIT question. Re: EDIT question. Re: Fortran and UnixP Re: From Mark Gorham - Clarification - OpenVMS Symposium AKA OpenVMS  Advanced T Generic Mail Response 6 Glitch in 7.3-1 Release Notes - MVTIMEOUT setting rec.0 Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?0 Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?0 RE: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ? Re: how do you start X Re: HP website integration7 Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax L JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel DevelopmentP Re: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel DevelopmentP RE: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel Development Re: LAT connection= Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC A Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC , Making foreign file systems available to VMS0 Re: Making foreign file systems available to VMS Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N. Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.+ Re: Oracle 7.3, Pro*FORTRAN and using dates 0 Re: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for Itanium ???? OT Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.  Re: PIPE BACKUP/LIST& Re: QUEUE MANAGER dying during backups  Re[2]: X.25 programming question' Re: SIMH 2.9-11: bug in tape simulation ' Re: SIMH 2.9-11: bug in tape simulation  Re: So help me understand herE.  RE: So help me understand herE.  RE: So help me understand herE. # sys$Pipe and DCL$PATH documentation  units available & Re: validate email address with LDAP ?, VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ?  Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? RE: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? Re: Wildcard for Delete /entry Re: Wildcard for Delete /entry Re: Wildcard for Delete /entry Re: Wildcard for Delete /entry Re: Wildcard for Delete /entry RE: Wildcard for Delete /entry. [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:53:22 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <ameuqc$maa$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:\ > In article <am9st5$sv7$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  > 5 >>Yes but its mostly old Wintel Junk which means they 5 >>paid 2-3 x the price for it than they would if they 9 >>bought something quicker and newer now. They are paying 7 >>maintenance on it and its consuming datacenter space.  >  > 9 >    You have a customer that pays maintenance on Wintel? ; >    And puts it in there data center?  They must have been  >    watching too much TV. >  > 5 >>Wintel boxes have always been relatively cheap from 5 >>a Capital expenditure standpoint, its all the other . >>costs associated with the platform that make3 >>it unattractive, Linux as it is being implimented 9 >>by many big corporates is potentially more unattractive 8 >>from a cost standpoint than WinTel. But the corporates: >>will only discover this when they belatedly realise that5 >>what they saved in Capital expenditure they lost in 
 >>Futzing. >  > @ >    I never had to futz with any of our Linux systems.  Wintel,C >    yes, but never Linux.  Sounds like someone applying the wrong   >    tool to a job.  > E >    Besides:  VMS, MVS, and just about every major implementation of A >    eunichs have each been shown to have the lowest TCO compared D >    to thier competitors.  So how could we ever trust a claim that  >    Linux has a higher TCO? >   < Or on the flip side why without any collateral to support it: should we beleive that Linux has a lower TCO when compared with other Server OS's.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:59:45 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <amev6b$mio$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:) >>This doesn't actually apply to most big 4 >>corporations where someone will eventually account3 >>for your time Futzing and bang the costs into the , >>Linux TCO and people like to be supported. >  > E >    Ah, Andrew, someone at Sun seems to think you've been stirring a * >    tempest in your own chocolate teapot. > G >    Seems they've done gone and announced a major commitment to Linux.  >        Akkkk.  5 Sun is pre-integrating most of the things that people 5 who don't buy Redhat Advanced server et al Futz with.   1 JFS, Web, Scripting, PHP, Tomcat, SSL, etc into a 0 standard release that we don't charge for called
 Sun-Linux.  4 If one is being very cynical one could say that most: of the larger vendors particularly those with big services5 organisations see Linux as a Integration opportunity.   4 Sun doesn't because if everyone has to pre-integrate6 their own version of Linux or pay IBM, HP etc to do it7 for them then Linux will fail in the datacenter because 7 people who are trying to save money will find that they 2 have simply moved budged from CapX into people and process. Hence Sun-Linux.   2 This is directly in line with my previous comments  or handn't your worked that out.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:48:44 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>  Subject: Re: "inview" Article + Message-ID: <3D8B0B1C.C67F8113@mediasec.de>   $ > Linux doesnt' cut it as a DBMS OS   F 'scuse me - why so? If Winwhatever can cut it (at least in the eyes of1 Microsoft and its customer), why wouldn't Linux?     	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:50:38 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <ameula$maa$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >>, >>> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >>> 0 >>>> Case in point would be your suggestion that1 >>>> Linux/Windows makes a cost effective web and  >>>> apps server platform. >>>>/ >>>> There is only one general J2EE apps server / >>>> benchmark that attempts to model this kind 2 >>>> of app on a price/performance basis and thats >>>> eCperf. >>>>7 >>>> And this may be counter intuitive, eCperf actually 5 >>>> shows that a typical Linux/Windows2000 with UNIX 7 >>>> DBMS infrastructure is more costly per transaction : >>>> than say a Sun Apps and Sun DBMS server configuration3 >>>> with the Sun solution delivering nearly double 8 >>>> the throughput per CPU and using many fewer servers >>>  >=20 >=20 >>> ???? >>> % >>> This is very very amateurish FUD.  >>>  >>> Everyone can go to:  >>> J >>> http://ecperf.theserverside.com/ecperf/index.jsp?page=3Dresults/top_t= en_price_performance=20  >>>  >>> and see that: % >>>   - IBM Linux is cheaper than SUN @ >>>   - other Linux and Windows configs are way cheaper than SUN >> >>2 >> Lets see your point was that Linux apps servers2 >> when used with Commercial OS DBMS servers could >> be cost effective.  >=20 >=20 >=206 > No. I never said that. I said that Windows/Linux was* > cost effective for web- and app-servers. >=20  ( Hang on web/apps/DBMS you need all three( Linux doesnt' cut it as a DBMS OS so you- need a commercial OS to host the layer in you - infrastructure that stores your state (DBMS).   / eCperf isn't a web or apps server benchmark its , a benchmark of a typical J2EE platform which) includes because they almost always do in  real life a DBMS server.  / So show me an example in eCperf of a Linux/UNIX , or Windows/UNIX benchmark that is faster and cheaper than the Sun result.      ' > Yoy got it rigth in a previous email:  >=20/ > # Case in point would be your suggestion that 0 > # Linux/Windows makes a cost effective web and > # apps server platform.  >=20 >=206 >> So why is it FUD to point out that this combination7 >> is actually more expensive and requires more systems : >> than a Commercial OS Apps and DBMS server combination ? >>' >> Its what the table you posted shows.  >=20 >=20 >=20 > No - it is not.  >=201 > If you take the best Linux-Linux result then it  > cost $5 per BBops. >=204 > The best Win2000-Win2000 result cost $6 per BBops. >=205 > The best Solaris-Solaris result cost $12 per BBops.  >=20: > And if you check the division of cost between app-server6 > and db-server, then you will see that all 3 is close
 > to 50%-50%.  >=20  5 You are attempting to cherry pick particular elements 7 of the each of the benchmark test to create a composite ( benchmark result that proves your point.  4 Anyone who knows anything about benchmarks will tell1 you that you can prove anything you like with the 5 above approach but you won't have a valid comparison.   8 The fact is that the Sun Apps and Sun DBMS configuration9 is faster than and cheaper than any of the configurations 3 that are based on Lintel/Wintel apps and UNIX DBMS.      >=20 > Extremely FUDish because: 6 >   - there are no Linux-commercial Unix result at all3 >   - it is obvious from the numbers that Linux and / >     Win2000 indeed is chaper than Solaris for  >     app-servers  >=20  4 Look Windows 2000 and Linux produce almost identical5 results on the same hardware platorm per CPU. And the + configs cost the same for the apps servers.   2 Do you think that IBM re-running their eCperf test0 using Linux and AIX rather than Windows 2000 and* AIX will materially effect to outcome ????  / And you are missing the point entirely. Company 1 comes to Sun and IBM and says I want an eCommerce 0 platform to do X. IBM bids Linux or Windows 2000- and AIX, Sun bids Solaris and Solaris. On the + Basis of the eCperf results Sun is going to $ win hands down on price/performance.  2 Incedentally try the same excercise but substitute/ and AlphaServer E45 at the back end for the IBM 8 AIX server and see what kind of costs you run up against then.      >># >> Well where do you want to start.  >>. >> Filesystem, security, management, supported, >> web servers etc. Most of the people who I0 >> have worked with on Linux projects are either2 >> rolling their own distros enhancing the free to. >> download Linux they have standardised on or5 >> they are buying Red Hat Advanced Server/Stronghold  >> or another similar package. >>/ >> If they are doing the former they are mostly 2 >> redistributing costs, moving CapX to people and5 >> integration and support costs (the Futzing costs). 7 >> Some are doing this because they don't want to admit 1 >> that Linux isn't free which they would have to  >> do if they bought Red Hat.  >>6 >> If they are buying Red Hat Advanced server they are7 >> still getting an OS that is technically less capable 4 >> than any of the major commercial UNIX's and which9 >> will require more work and added to that Red Hat isn't  >> actually that cheap.  >=20 >=202 > The facts shows that it is chaper than Solaris ! >=20  0 Well your wierd interpretation of the facts show! this but thats about it isn't it.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:01:30 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: "inview" Article 0 Message-ID: <amf6al$opp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Jan C. Vorbr=FCggen wrote:& >>Linux doesnt' cut it as a DBMS OS=20 >=20 >=20H > 'scuse me - why so? If Winwhatever can cut it (at least in the eyes of5 > Microsoft and its customer), why wouldn't Linux?=20  >=20 > 	Jan  % Did I say that winwhatever cut it ???    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:21:40 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>A Subject: Re: Another Announcment - SUN will sell PCs ?? <-- Linux @ Message-ID: <20020920122140.96538.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   No ! I dont blame him ! :-)   ( I will return to the Solaris world ! :-)   Regards    FC  6 --- "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: > 5 > "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in 	 > message  > : news:20020919112203.80499.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com... > > Click at > > - > > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-958487.html  > >  > 4 > Based on the following, do you blame Sun for doing > this. Sun may be a lot of 2 > things (and McNealy happens to absolutely loathe > Yours Truly) but they are 
 > not stupid!  >  > 6 > SAN FRANCISCO--Sun Microsystems will get into the PC > business next year, 2 > selling Linux-based desktops that will cost less > than half to own and6 > operate than comparable systems running Windows, Sun > CEO Scott McNealy said > Wednesday. >  >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?) New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!  http://sbc.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:08:59 -0400 ( From: "David M Smith" <dsmit115@csc.com>. Subject: Re: Backup Restore and Boot problem ?' Message-ID: <amfa5u$hcm$1@lore.csc.com>   , "James" <jcho888@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:43c45dcb.0209191351.3ceaed98@posting.google.com... E > Hi,  All we recently got an AS4000 (with 7.2 alpha on it) and would G > like move system disk with VMS 6.2 from an old DEC 3000 to one of the 
 > hard drives    <snip>  E > It looks like it restored ok but when I try to reboot the system it G > causes what looks like a memory dump and the system reboots. What are G > the correct procedures to transfer the OS and data file from one disk 4 > to another. Does the different in hardware matter?  K According to information I found in a DSNlink article, the Alphaserver 4000 , requires V6.2-1H3 (will not work with V6.2).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:05:50 -0400 G From: "Lorraine Profeta" <profetal@greaterbaynet.com@greaterbaynet.com>  Subject: Re: BASIC (bug?) , Message-ID: <amfddb$cs9$1@news.chatlink.com>  L I've posted this before.  The reason why there are no compiler complaints isJ because nothing has been redefined.  The declarations are identical.  intsJ and long are both integer representations in a longword of memory.  If youK used real in the second definition you would get a redeclaration error.  If E you used a different value (like true instead of false) in the second , declaration you'd get a redeclaration error.   Dave  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D868630.1A033061@videotron.ca...) > > > declare long     constant false = 0 ) > > > declare integer  constant false = 0  > I > Is it possible that the compiler will just overwrite the first with the  second > definition ? > 4 > What happens if you have   long constant false = 1 > integer constant false = 2 > H > Would the compiler then complain ? And inside the program, what values would  > be used ?  > K > Is it possible that in your program, all arguments are strongly typed and  if aK > function requires a long, then the "long" false will be passed, and if it 6 > requires a integer, then the integer will be passed.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Sep 2002 23:36:25 -0700" From: ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.)H Subject: Re: bugcheck on boot after 7.3 ACRTL eco applied - suggestions?= Message-ID: <5437ff2f.0209192236.6f64c868@posting.google.com>   " Actually, to answer my own post...  F After I calmed down a bit this morning, a google search of comp.os.vmsF for the word "procgone" showed that this sort of thing seems to happenD every now and then.  As per a previous thread found in the search, IF did a backup/image/verify of the system disk to another disk, and back again to defragment the files.  E My system will boot just fine now, although DECWindows now refuses to D completely startup - it goes to an aqua (light blue-green?) colouredE screen with a large "X" cursor, and stops there. I can telnet into it A ok though, and CSWS is working (which is what I care about most).   F Can anyone either advise how to fix this (if it is an obvious problem)= or how to stop DECWindows starting altogether (ie a text-only 	 console)?   7 Many thanks to those that responded about the bugcheck!    -Chris Guthrey  g ccc_crg@yahoo.com (Chris G.) wrote in message news:<5437ff2f.0209191403.26257c39@posting.google.com>... H > I have a hobbyist VMS 7.3 on Alpha 1000A.  I have applied two ECO kits9 > this morning, rebooting after each. First I applied the F > axpvms_73_update & rebooted, then I applied the axpvms73_acrtl kit & > rebooted again.  > H > At the beginning of the 2nd reboot a BUGCHECK 000036C PROGONE (Process0 > Gone) in SYSINIT occurred and the boot failed. > H > I think it is fair to say that the ACRTL patch is causing the problem. > G > Being a hobbyist system I had ignored all the big bold warnings about F > doing a full image backup of the system disk before applying the ECO4 > kits. (Of course, now I wish I had done a backup!) >  > As I see it my options are:  > A > 1) Initialise the system disk and do a fresh install of VMS 7.3 B > -- This would be quite time consuming and I'd have to rebuild my' > environment so I'd rather not do this  > 9 > 2) Boot from the install CD and go to the DCL prompt.   B > -- Mount the system disk (DKA0) and look for the files that wereE > replaced in the ECO patch. I'm hoping that either the files will be A > there with a version # -1 or will have been renamed to *.old or  > something. > 9 > I believe that the files replaced by the ACRTL eco are:  >   DECC$SHR.EXE >   CRTL.OBJ >   CRTLMSGDEF.OBJ > F > 3) I'm wondering if a 3rd option would be to run the VMS 7.3 installD > with the PRESERVE option. (Its been well over 6 years since I last? > upgraded a VMS box so I've no idea if this would be sensible)  > ? > 4) Perhaps another option would be to do a fresh install to a ? > different system directory on DKA0 (or even onto another disk E > entirely) and then copy the ACRTL files back to the original system F > directory. I'm not sure if this is possible or how to do it, so I'llC > have to go to the compaq documentation website and see if this is 
 > documented.  > H > Any suggestions or comments (including constructive criticism) will be > very welcome!  > 
 > Regards, > Chris Guthrey  > Auckland, New Zealand.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:27:06 -0700 " From: "Jim Strehlow" <JimStrehlow>H Subject: Re: bugcheck on boot after 7.3 ACRTL eco applied - suggestions?4 Message-ID: <3d8abfdb$0$30574@fountain.mindlink.net>  $ The backup and restore works because. the full restore will automatically defragment  as it builds the new clean disk.   Booting from an OpenVMS CD-ROM* gives you access to most everything except) analyze/disk/repair because the temporary  UAF quota limits are too small!  Did they fix that in v7.3-1 ?    Jim Strehlow, Alameda, CA, USA  8 "Jeff Campbell" <jcampbell@ins-msi.com> wrote in message% news:3D8A5CD6.2C8EA7C5@ins-msi.com...  > "Chris G." wrote:  > G > If you can backup the system disk, do an image backup and restore it.   > The BUGCHECK should disappear. >  > See the thread:  > (may wrap) >  > L <http://groups.google.com/groups?q=BUGCHECK+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&lr=&ie=U@ TF-8&selm=8ptsok%24cpj%241%40mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com&rnum=7> >  > > Regards, > > Chris Guthrey  > > Auckland, New Zealand. > > --6 > > chris(at)remove.this.no-spam.prefix.guthrey.gen.nz > > or ccc_crg@yahoo.com >  > Jeff Campbell  > n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 06:23:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: CLD question , Message-ID: <3D8AF713.980A0977@videotron.ca>  2 I would like the following behaviour in a command.  ' CHOCOLATE/LIST 	(nothing else required)   I CHOCOLATE param1 /BRIEF (or /FULL) /OVEN=value  where param1 is required.   N In the second one, the only required thing is param1 and param1 is not part of a list of valid values.   I In the book, there is an example that shows how to have totally different K syntax depending on a list of keywords for P1.  But that doesn't quite work  for the above.  . *param1 in my case can be any tcpip host name)  N Is there a trick to do this ? Are there VMS commands which behave as above (so) I could use VERB to see how it is done) ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:58:18 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: CLD question 0 Message-ID: <00A143FB.90590AA3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3D8AF713.980A0977@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:3 >I would like the following behaviour in a command.  > ( >CHOCOLATE/LIST 	(nothing else required) > J >CHOCOLATE param1 /BRIEF (or /FULL) /OVEN=value  where param1 is required.  7 ...and you placed REQUIRED in the CLD PARAMETER clause?   C You can get away with this if the REQUIRED is not used.  The /LIST  A qualifier can invoke a a different syntax not accepting any other C command line items.  The normal syntax would define qualifiers that B you specified such as /BRIEF /FULL and /OVEN.  If you're expectingB a prompt for the parameter because you did not specify it when notA using the /LIST, that may be difficult to implement.  REQUIRED is B the way to enforce the parameter requirement but I do not believe @ it will allow the alternate syntax to work as you'd like to have
 it behave. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:47:34 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: CLD question & Message-ID: <3D8B18E7.120B930@Free.fr>  N Yes. BACKUP has qualifiers which act differenly depending on their location in> the command line (before or after the saveset name, actually).   JF Mezei wrote:  ../.. 3 >  Are there VMS commands which behave as above (so , > I could use VERB to see how it is done) ?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:02:17 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>  Subject: Re: CLD question 5 Message-ID: <amfd9q$5b5j7$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8AF713.980A0977@videotron.ca...4 > I would like the following behaviour in a command. > ( > CHOCOLATE/LIST (nothing else required) > K > CHOCOLATE param1 /BRIEF (or /FULL) /OVEN=value  where param1 is required.  > H > In the second one, the only required thing is param1 and param1 is not part of  > a list of valid values.  >...    ; Interesting challenge, the closest I could come up with is;    define verb chocolate    image sys$login:chocolate $   qualifier list, syntax=list_syntax1   parameter p1, label=hostname,prompt="Host Name"    qualifier brief    qualifier full&   qualifier oven, value (type=$number)   disallow (brief and full) 8   disallow (not hostname) ! Give an error if no hostname     define syntax list_syntax      qualifier list      parameter p1, label=hostnameE     disallow (hostname)  ! Give an error if they type chocolate /list  www.digital.com   9 But it would be better (I think) to define the syntax as;      $ CHOCOLATE /LIST =     $ CHOCOLATE /HOST hostname [/BRIEF] [/FULL] [/OVEN=value] 7 If you go that route then you will have something like;    define verb chocolate    image chocolate $   qualifier list, syntax=list_syntax$   qualifier host, syntax=host_syntax"   disallow (not list and not host)     define syntax host_syntax E     parameter p1, label=hostname,prompt="Host Name", value (required)      qualifier host     qualifier brief      qualifier full(     qualifier oven, value (type=$number)     disallow (brief and full)      define syntax list_syntax      qualifier list   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:36:37 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> ? Subject: Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) + Message-ID: <3D8ADE15.76D03846@mediasec.de>   0 > I remember some fire department warnings aboutM > pilot lights during the ice storm, but can't remember if it was to turn off O > gas entirely or to ensure that the pilot lights continued. (the danger is the N > gase being release by pilot light accumulating in stoves etc, especially forN > those who had to abandon homes, and if gas was turned off momentarily during  > repairs in neighbourhood etc).  G There should be a heat-triggered valve that closes when the pilot light K extinguishes. I have never heard of such gas leackage being possible unless N the system is severely broken/unmaintained. It's a basic fail-safe requirementH - something most OSes, in particular those from Readmond WA, are severly
 deficient in.    	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2002 12:03:19 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)? Subject: Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) 5 Message-ID: <amf2q7$5feug$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   , In article <3D8A32EA.999BE4F9@videotron.ca>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > re: gas during ice storm > P > Correct that gas and water were still running. Even if your furnace can igniteN > (assuming it isn't spark based ignition), the fans or pump to distribute the+ > heat to the rest of the house won't work. V > And of course, the valve that turns the gas on/off to the furnace would be electric.  F As I said, based on mine, which is about 12 years old, all this is lowM voltage, low current run under normal circumstances from a small transformer. J Could be run easily from the 12 volt system in a car for days if not weeks of intermittent use.   >  > J > As for pilot lights, I am not certain about this anymore. Wouldn't it be" > electronic ignition nowadays ?    G Could be, but how often are new furnaces put in??  Mine is 12 years old ) and going strong.  And uses pilot lights.   P >                                 I remember some fire department warnings aboutM > pilot lights during the ice storm, but can't remember if it was to turn off O > gas entirely or to ensure that the pilot lights continued. (the danger is the N > gase being release by pilot light accumulating in stoves etc, especially forN > those who had to abandon homes, and if gas was turned off momentarily during  > repairs in neighbourhood etc).  G Pilot lights are controlled by thermo-couples.  If they go off for more F than a few seconds the gas shuts off.  Even the gas water heater I had" in New York 25 years ago did that.  D But it really doesn't matter.  It is unlikely that more than a smallC handful of people took any real precautions during the beginning of E the storm beyond emptying the shelves at the local food store. (Which G then leaves the question, "How did they plan on opening all that canned = food when the electric can opener was no longer working?" :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:06:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ? Subject: Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) H Message-ID: <PPGi9.68415$8b1.21914@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message / news:amf2q7$5feug$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... . > In article <3D8A32EA.999BE4F9@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > > re: gas during ice storm > > K > > Correct that gas and water were still running. Even if your furnace can  igniteL > > (assuming it isn't spark based ignition), the fans or pump to distribute the - > > heat to the rest of the house won't work. K > > And of course, the valve that turns the gas on/off to the furnace would  be electric. > H > As I said, based on mine, which is about 12 years old, all this is lowB > voltage, low current run under normal circumstances from a small transformer.L > Could be run easily from the 12 volt system in a car for days if not weeks > of intermittent use.  H True enough for the spark ignition, but not for the distribution fans or pumps.      L > > As for pilot lights, I am not certain about this anymore. Wouldn't it be" > > electronic ignition nowadays ? > I > Could be, but how often are new furnaces put in??  Mine is 12 years old + > and going strong.  And uses pilot lights.   A If the proce of natural gas ever rises to higher levels, you'd be H automatically thinking about a higher efficiency furnace, which would byH default come with spark ignition. Same would hold true if any utility orC goverment offered you a subsidy to upgrade, eg. possibly as part of  ratifying the Kyoto Accord.       F > But it really doesn't matter.  It is unlikely that more than a smallE > handful of people took any real precautions during the beginning of G > the storm beyond emptying the shelves at the local food store. (Which I > then leaves the question, "How did they plan on opening all that canned ? > food when the electric can opener was no longer working?" :-)   H For those with foresight, Swiss Army knife....for others, a hammer and a nail.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2002 16:57:11 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)? Subject: Re: Disaster Recovery (as this thread now seems to be) 5 Message-ID: <amfk17$5iirs$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   H In article <PPGi9.68415$8b1.21914@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,& 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 1 > news:amf2q7$5feug$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... / >> In article <3D8A32EA.999BE4F9@videotron.ca>, 2 >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >> > re: gas during ice storm  >> >L >> > Correct that gas and water were still running. Even if your furnace can > igniteM >> > (assuming it isn't spark based ignition), the fans or pump to distribute  > the . >> > heat to the rest of the house won't work.L >> > And of course, the valve that turns the gas on/off to the furnace would > be electric. >>I >> As I said, based on mine, which is about 12 years old, all this is loweC >> voltage, low current run under normal circumstances from a smallA > transformer.M >> Could be run easily from the 12 volt system in a car for days if not weeksk >> of intermittent use.e > J > True enough for the spark ignition, but not for the distribution fans or > pumps.  J Again, good point, but depnedant on many other factors.  I have gas/steam.L No distribution problem at all.  Steam expands and rises to fill the system.K 30 years ago I was living in an apartment rented from a heating contractor.eN Hot water system.  One morning we got up to a cold apartment.  The circulationJ pump motor had died.  My landlord came in a single component from the pipeK system and thermal current circulated the hot water.  Only problem was lackrH of regulation which meant it actually got warmer than the setting on the
 thermostat.     $ Forced hot air is a looser, I guess.   >  >  > M >> > As for pilot lights, I am not certain about this anymore. Wouldn't it be # >> > electronic ignition nowadays ?  >>J >> Could be, but how often are new furnaces put in??  Mine is 12 years old, >> and going strong.  And uses pilot lights. > C > If the proce of natural gas ever rises to higher levels, you'd beVJ > automatically thinking about a higher efficiency furnace, which would by$ > default come with spark ignition.   L It would have to rise by a rather astonishing amount (several 100%) in order' to be worth that kind of an investment.r  L >                                     Same would hold true if any utility orE > goverment offered you a subsidy to upgrade, eg. possibly as part ofe > ratifying the Kyoto Accord.l  F Sorry, I work for a living.  The government is never going ot offer to( buy me a new furnace or anything else.     > G >> But it really doesn't matter.  It is unlikely that more than a smallnF >> handful of people took any real precautions during the beginning ofH >> the storm beyond emptying the shelves at the local food store. (WhichJ >> then leaves the question, "How did they plan on opening all that canned@ >> food when the electric can opener was no longer working?" :-) > 0 > For those with foresight, Swiss Army knife....  H Swiss Army Knife!!  Hahahahahahahaha,  Just last week I watched 5 peopleG here in the office try to figure out how to use a normal mechanical caneI opener.  None of them understood the theory enough to tell that it wasn't H going to work on the can they were trying to open (lip was too thin).  II finally whipped out the Army P38 can oipener I have been carrying with meI, for 35 years and had it opened in seconds.    L >                                                 for others, a hammer and a > nail.n  F I would love to watch most people try that.  6 hours later with tomatoC soup splattered all over the walls and ceiling it would look like a 7 scene from "The Shining" and they still be hungry.  :-)(   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:48:14 -0400F- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h$ Subject: Disaster recovery / offices, Message-ID: <3D8AB69A.ED3733E5@videotron.ca>  G Much has been said about keeping a cluster alive for disaster recovery.i   But what about offices ?  J Have any companies investigated (or instituted) plans to have workers workL from home after a disaster ? Since most now have a PC at home, couldn't thatL become sufficient ?  (especially those employees who have DSL/cable internet/ connectiosn with the phone remaining available.?  K What sort of methods would be used to provide access to corporate computingm2 via internet ?  (especially in terms of security).  N From a licencing point of view, would they be able to negotiate with microsoftN the redeployement of word , powerpoint  to people home PCs ? ( a browser could" provide access to emails, right ?)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:18:10 +0200gE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>a( Subject: Re: Disaster recovery / offices+ Message-ID: <3D8AF5E2.F905B7AB@mediasec.de>   F > From a licencing point of view, would they be able to negotiate withI > microsoft the redeployement of word , powerpoint  to people home PCs ? d  G AFAIK, the Office license(s) already contain the right to use the toolst@ at home for work-related purposes (or on a laptop, for example).   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:22:01 GMTw# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>l( Subject: Re: Disaster recovery / offices; Message-ID: <ZhFi9.3945$yB5.149608@twister.tampabay.rr.com>   G I believe most software products already allow for a copy at home.  Not  really sure about that though.  E But what is that "new" free package?  Star office?  Or a "star officepI look-alike".  Has anyone given it much of a look?  I wold love to dump MSe' Office if there was a good alternative.n  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8AB69A.ED3733E5@videotron.ca...I > Much has been said about keeping a cluster alive for disaster recovery.g >e > But what about offices ? >  > snip >sF > From a licencing point of view, would they be able to negotiate with	 microsoftaJ > the redeployement of word , powerpoint  to people home PCs ? ( a browser couldc$ > provide access to emails, right ?) >n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:58:10 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t( Subject: Re: Disaster recovery / officesF Message-ID: <6IGi9.5683$q41.5229@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:ZhFi9.3945$yB5.149608@twister.tampabay.rr.com...:I > I believe most software products already allow for a copy at home.  Not   > really sure about that though. >tG > But what is that "new" free package?  Star office?  Or a "star officecK > look-alike".  Has anyone given it much of a look?  I wold love to dump MSe) > Office if there was a good alternative.,    G How about WordPerfect Office, if you are using a Windows-based desktop?i  A Don't know how it compares on 'group' related things like meetingnH scheduling, etc.. but as a package for word processing, spreadsheet, and presentations, it very good.  9 http://saveateaglestore.site.yahoo.net/corworofsuit2.htmlh   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:45:13 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>y' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clustersl; Message-ID: <01KMQ2XSYEFM9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  F > One of us apparently really doesn't understand how quorum works.  MyI > understanding is that loss of the 'quorum machine' (or the links to it)oL > would not bother the actual working parts of the cluster in the slightest:N > the 'quorum machine' is there only to allow the survivor to continue running- > when one of the working machines goes down.   F Precisely.  Trivial case: one machine at each of three sites.  If any H one machine goes down OR IF THE LINK TO IT IS LOST, the quorum of 2 for  the cluster is still there.:   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:46:47 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>6' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clustersu; Message-ID: <01KMQ30M5KRS9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c  B > A and C and in building 1 and B in building 2, your backup site. > P > A and C fail. B would be expected to take over, but B would freeze due to lack > of quorum. >  > Now lets say you have: > # > A in building 1 and B and C in 2.   H No, A in building 1, B in building 2 AND C (QUORUM MACHINE) IN BUILDING  3!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:05:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusterso, Message-ID: <3D8B6385.582BC33F@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:eI > No, A in building 1, B in building 2 AND C (QUORUM MACHINE) IN BUILDING> > 3!!!  D The problem with this is that many companies may not have building 3L available. Yes, if you're talking about the remaining VMS customer base madeI up of large corporations with sopare wildfire equipment, the 3rd building> isn't a problem.  M But if VMS is ever to return to the bigger markets of mid and small business,rV then perhaps a solution not requiring the 3rd building might make VMS very attractive.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:44:16 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGhC Subject: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat?r0 Message-ID: <00A143F9.9A23FF68@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <amdf94$675$4@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>, koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.aspm.gov (Bob Koehler) writes:  >uc >In article <amdbeb$q8g$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> writes:r >sB >   I assume you mean Albert, the US DECUS VAX SIG (later VMS SIG)- >   mascot.  Gee, haven't seen him for years.t >.= >   How about if VAXMAN gets us a picture of Starlet instead?p  . http://www.tmesis.com/pix/STARLET-DOT-MLB.JPG;   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:46:34 -0400l! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> C Subject: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat?l' Message-ID: <3D8B26BA.3C2E1D20@vcu.edu>U    I just now sent Albert to Sue...   Sue Skonetski wrote: > @ > If so would you mind sending me a copy at sue.skonetski@hp.com >  > thanks so much   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:10:19 -0400s! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> C Subject: Re: Does anyone have an electronic picture of the VAX cat? ' Message-ID: <3D8B2C4B.6BE86046@vcu.edu>t  4 Albert has been added to the MicroVax FAQ page... at  1 http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html=  E Y'all enjoy, and thanks to the guy who gave him to me... I forget nows who he was..  	 Jim Agnew    Sue Skonetski wrote: > @ > If so would you mind sending me a copy at sue.skonetski@hp.com >  > thanks so much   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:13:55 +0100v& From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> Subject: EDIT question.5S Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BE56383@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>   
 Hi Group,   K Found the following command file lurking around and was a little puzzled asoK to the purpose of the percent sign after EDIT.  Is it just interpreted as ah single char wildcard?    $define sys$input sys$command  $convert_loop:" $   tpuinfile = f$search("*.ifdl")# $   if tpuinfile .eqs. "" then exite! $   len = f$locate(";",tpuinfile)c* $   ifdl_file = f$extract(0,len,tpuinfile)+ $   edit%/tpu/command=byte_a.tpu 'ifdl_filel    , From the command line these all function...  $ edit% 	 $ edito% a
 $ editor%      $edi% does not though.   a  0 It's not really that important, just wondered.    	 Regards,   	David.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:17:47 +0200t: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: EDIT question.e/ Message-ID: <amesj8$ikk1@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>p   David Gray wrote:  > Hi Group,  > M > Found the following command file lurking around and was a little puzzled asiM > to the purpose of the percent sign after EDIT.  Is it just interpreted as am > single char wildcard?  >  > $define sys$input sys$commandI > $convert_loop:$ > $   tpuinfile = f$search("*.ifdl")% > $   if tpuinfile .eqs. "" then exitd# > $   len = f$locate(";",tpuinfile)e, > $   ifdl_file = f$extract(0,len,tpuinfile)- > $   edit%/tpu/command=byte_a.tpu 'ifdl_file  >  > . > From the command line these all function... 
 > $ edit%  > $ edito% l > $ editor%  >  >  > $edi% does not though.   s > 2 > It's not really that important, just wondered.   >  > Regards, o
 > 	David.  >  > = It makes sure, that the 'normal' edit command is used in casee- if someone redefines EDIT="EDIT/EDT" or else.v   -- a  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder                   iT-Ingenieurteam     I Ellernbruch 11 D-38112 Braunschweig s  . E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:52:31 +0100 & From: David Gray <GrayD@turpinltd.com> Subject: RE: EDIT question.eS Message-ID: <79DE14DAA1A8D3119B6E00805FEB980BE56385@zakary.turpin-distribution.com>    Ok thanks. d   David. y   -----Original Message-----B From: Karl Rohwedder [mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de]  Sent: 20 September 2002 11:18u To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt Subject: Re: EDIT question.l   David Gray wrote:  > Hi Group,  > J > Found the following command file lurking around and was a little puzzled asK > to the purpose of the percent sign after EDIT.  Is it just interpreted asi a  > single char wildcard?  >  > $define sys$input sys$command: > $convert_loop:$ > $   tpuinfile = f$search("*.ifdl")% > $   if tpuinfile .eqs. "" then exit-# > $   len = f$locate(";",tpuinfile)o, > $   ifdl_file = f$extract(0,len,tpuinfile)- > $   edit%/tpu/command=byte_a.tpu 'ifdl_filee >  > . > From the command line these all function... 
 > $ edit%  > $ edito%   > $ editor%  >  >  > $edi% does not though.   n > 2 > It's not really that important, just wondered.   >  > Regards,  
 > 	David.  >  > = It makes sure, that the 'normal' edit command is used in caser- if someone redefines EDIT="EDIT/EDT" or else.u   -- R  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regards    Karl Rohwedder               4   iT-Ingenieurteam     i Ellernbruch 11 D-38112 Braunschweig    . E.Mail:  karl.rohwedder(at)it-ingenieurteam.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:51:18 +0200 - From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>> Subject: Re: EDIT question.e' Message-ID: <3D8B19C7.9095684F@Free.fr>i  P Any character in the 5th position of a DCL verb will prevent the DCL interpreter9 to try to translate the verb as a local or global symbol.i  7 It is an undocumented feature, for a long time already.p  I And, as Hoff said in Lyon the other month, don't ask where you could find * documentation on undocumented features :-)   D.   David Gray wrote:x >  > Hi Group,n > M > Found the following command file lurking around and was a little puzzled ascM > to the purpose of the percent sign after EDIT.  Is it just interpreted as a  > single char wildcard?= >  > $define sys$input sys$commands > $convert_loop:$ > $   tpuinfile = f$search("*.ifdl")% > $   if tpuinfile .eqs. "" then exit=# > $   len = f$locate(";",tpuinfile)_, > $   ifdl_file = f$extract(0,len,tpuinfile)- > $   edit%/tpu/command=byte_a.tpu 'ifdl_file    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 01:56:50 -0700( From: carlo.pettirossi@libero.it (Carlo) Subject: Re: Fortran and Unixj= Message-ID: <553e9e4b.0209200056.4fbd7289@posting.google.com>$  ? > I don't know anything about that particular image format, bute? > it apparantly stores the data column-wise.  Just reorder your  > loop.e  D Well, the file is a normal raw that you can open with paint shop pro. (for instance) by giving the exact dimensions.F Anyway, at least now I know that it's a "normal" behaviour of fortran.E I'll just swap the indexes or use the transpose() function at the end  of the reading process.t   >  > > H > > 2) Is there a way to prevent 'ls' to send the 'file not found' error. > > message to the screen within a ksh script? > >  >  > ls thefile 2>/dev/null   thanks.    > K > > 3) in an internal network (no SSH needed) i need to execute a script on.K > > a unix machine from a vax machine. I checked up into the inetd.conf and K > > the demon rshd is uncommented. I put the name of the vax machine in thejJ > > hosts.equiv and in the .rlogin file in my $HOME dir. Is there anythingL > > left to avoid the connection refuse from the remote (unix) by using rsh?H > > which are the steps to configure and enable rsh? The vax machine canJ > > access with no problem another unix machine (in the same network) with8 > > rsh. This last unix machine has no hosts.allow file. > >  > + > What operating system is the VAX running?  > A > Does the $HOME/.rlogin file on both Unix machines have the same  > permissions?  A Sorry I meant .rhosts files. The .rlogin files are absent in both8@ unix's. Anyway which are the steps to configure and enable rshd?   Carlo   F p.s. the VAX is running the OpenVMS AXP Operating System, Version V6.1   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 23:46:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: From Mark Gorham - Clarification - OpenVMS Symposium AKA OpenVMS  Advanced Ti- Message-ID: <873cs47jgf.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:l   > John Smith wrote:   E > > and pieces...assuming you don't have to pay union labor rates forbA > > installation too, and you can snake an ethernet cable to eache> > > radio without getting an electrician involved (ie. parking. > > lot-to-parking lot or rooftop-to-rooftop).  > You could stand on the roof of the Tara (this is the SpitbrookD Sheration, yes?) and throw the fibre to ZK if you where in practice.  A > Ever seen the DEC guys setup the demo areas at DECUS symposia ?i  @ Yep, a tri CPU Tops-20 system with CFS on dual HSCs. 20 min fromD opening the back of the semi to aiming for the bar. This is the mostD impressive thing I have ever seen in the computer industry. With the@ credit card slip for it after they sold it off the floor a closeD second! The LCG crew where NOT happy to have their demo machine sold out from under them.   D > I bet the VMS engineers would have no problems running an ethernetF > between the two buildings and "protect" it with duct tape to make itF > stay on the sidewalk, and across the streets. I figure they could do  > this is 20 minutes or less :-)  B They use duct tape over there? How quaint, or are you expecting to? move in permanantly. :) Just don't try it in Florida, the cablea can bite in the wrong weather!!    -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:24:17 -0230o, From: "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> Subject: Generic Mail Response, Message-ID: <VNFi9.2815$i%.732581@localhost>  H How does one edit the generic "undeliverable" mail response when Mail isH disabled using the /DISMAIL flag?  We would like to add some text to the generic response.b   Bad address -- <username>s- Error -- Mail delivery disabled for this user     % Thanks to everyone for your response.)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 08:39:44 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e? Subject: Glitch in 7.3-1 Release Notes - MVTIMEOUT setting rec.)3 Message-ID: <Py9Y+V9glUIQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   1 	On page 4-28 of the 7.3-1 Release Notes it says:f  	 	"			Notee  = 	The recommended setting for MVTIMEOUT has doubled since thisi, 	note was published for OpenVSM Version 7.3"  < 	Yet if you look at the setting just above the note it shows 	recommended settings as such:   	MSCP_CMD_TMO	60 	SHADOW_MBR_TMO	180J 	SHADOW_SYS_TMO	180  	MVTIMEOUT	1200e  > 	That MVTIMEOUT must be a typo and should read 7200 as double - 	the current (non-7.3) default would be 7200:    <NODE>$ mcr sysgen show mvtimeH Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  Dynamic H --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -------aN MVTIMEOUT                    3600       3600         1      64000 Seconds    D      				Rob  N "It is considered awkward to use seriously such words as good and evil. But ifM  we are to be deprived of those concepts, what will be left?  We will declineu,  to the status of animals.   -- Solzhenitsyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:45:47 +0200u From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>9 Subject: Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?03 Message-ID: <Guzi9.89792$H6.7314297@zwoll1.home.nl>:   Rob Kersey wrote:e4 > Currently we use Volshad to mirror all our disks?  > H > We have been looking at our disk controllers and have realised that itA > is possible to use them to mirror the disks instead of Volshad.n > E > Our disks are stripped using disk controllers and were wondering ifeH > using the controllers to mirror the disks will improve the performance* > of our application running on the vaxes. > F > The application performs a large amount of writes to the database soA > therfore there must be a fair amount of mirroring being done by < > Volshad, which in turn would be an overhead on the system. > C > Has anyone done any benchmarking comparing hardware mirroring and B > software mirroring? Can anyone point me in the dirrection of anyG > figures comparing the too? Has anyone changed from software mirroringcG > to hardware mirroring and noticed an increase/decrease in performance  > (or vice versa)? >  > We use the following.. >  > OpenVMS V7.1 > 2 Vax 4000/108 in a cluster  > 512Mb of RAM eachc > Oracle Rdb V7.0-5l > Volshad Version ! > 2 x Disk Controllers - HSD50-AX     N If I understand this correctly you have created raid-0 sets (striping) on the A controllers, and you are using volshad to shadow the raid-0 sets.r  Q That means you have effectively created a kind of raid 0+1 setup, but in the way iM it should not be done. If you get into a situation that 1 disk fails in each aQ stripeset (after loss of power for instance), all data will be lost and you will  K spend a lot of time creating new stripesets. Furthermore you can't use the tK controllers ability to automatically replace a failed disk by a spare disk.r  Q The right way to do it is to set up mirror sets of disks, and stripe those. From  N a viewpoint of data security this is much safer. In every mirror set one disk O can fail without the data being lost. However you can't do this in combination -B with volshad. This is a pure hardware controller setup (normally).  Q These days we use volshad only in multi site fibrechannel clusters. One node and nN a raid cabinet is located on every site. On the raid cabinets we use raid 0+1 L sets for maximum performance or raid-5 sets for applications that need less Q performance. These raid sets are shadowed (with volshad) to a raidcabinet on the (K other site. However only writes are done on both raid sets. Reads are only DP performed on the local raid cabinet (unles that is down of course). And yes, in M case of raid 0+1 sets we need 4 times the amount of storage capacity that is n visible to the application.   O So there is more to it then just performance. Data security and uptime is also LL very important. And with aging disks the chance of disk failure increases...   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 05:09:12 -0700- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)r9 Subject: Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ? = Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0209200409.4055012b@posting.google.com>   G > To me, the biggest advantage is the fact you eliminate the shadow-set)H > merging resulting from VMS crashes and other issues like files open at< > system-shutdown time that result in full-merges on reboot.  C With improvements made with mini-merges, hbvs is a good choice.  We:C had a four node cluster separated into two sites over FDDI.  We didCF hbvs between the two sites.  If one site went down, the other site was) able to stay up with no reconfigurations.e  B I think with mirroring, you would need to tweak your app to handleE different devices when the primary set fails.  Could you do somethinge) with logical name lists and multipathing?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:47:32 -0400e' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>s9 Subject: RE: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?eT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A23@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: HBVS vs. HW RAID  * Both have advantages and disadvantages.=20  H On the very high end, one can use a HW RAID volume on one controller setC mirrored with HBVS with a HW RAID volume on another controller set.t  F At one site locally, where downtime was approx $500k/hr (before stocksG crashed), and their application was very read intensive, we set up 3 HW C RAID volumes with HBVS mirroring across 3 separate HSJ80 controller G sets. These folks used the stop application, dism single member of HBVSpB set (HW RAID volume), restart app, then backup the dismounted RAIDF member to tape, then add member back into set when backup complete.=20   They wanted to ensure:B 1. loss of an entire disk controller set would have zero impact onC production. They were worried about things like CS taking the wrongeB controller offline for maint (it happened to them in the past), orD controller FW upgrade going south taking out both controllers or not failing over properly etc.D 2. When doing backups, if a single drive failed, it would not impact their backups.  D The other good point about using both HW RAID and HBVS in multi-siteG config's is that failed drives are rebuilt on local controllers and theoG rebuilding does not impact the network link, or local systems, HBA's ora" switches. Its transparent to HBVS.  * Does it cost more to use both? You bet.=20  G Course, the cost of drives has dropped through the floor today as well.   9 Anyway, which RAID / HBVS strategy to use will depend on:    - budget $'s available,e9 - what the business requirements are for availability,=20n* - how much does application downtime cost?$ - read-write ratio's of applications     Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant- Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660? Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----( From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]=20  Sent: September 20, 2002 2:46 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp9 Subject: Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?,     Rob Kersey wrote:i3 > Currently we use Volshad to mirror all our disks?t >=20H > We have been looking at our disk controllers and have realised that it  A > is possible to use them to mirror the disks instead of Volshad.a >=20H > Our disks are stripped using disk controllers and were wondering if=20H > using the controllers to mirror the disks will improve the performance  * > of our application running on the vaxes. >=20I > The application performs a large amount of writes to the database so=20nD > therfore there must be a fair amount of mirroring being done by=20< > Volshad, which in turn would be an overhead on the system. >=20F > Has anyone done any benchmarking comparing hardware mirroring and=20E > software mirroring? Can anyone point me in the dirrection of any=20yJ > figures comparing the too? Has anyone changed from software mirroring=20J > to hardware mirroring and noticed an increase/decrease in performance=20 > (or vice versa)? >=20 > We use the following.. >=20 > OpenVMS V7.1 > 2 Vax 4000/108 in a clustert > 512Mb of RAM eachy > Oracle Rdb V7.0-5e > Volshad Versionn! > 2 x Disk Controllers - HSD50-AXo    F If I understand this correctly you have created raid-0 sets (striping)	 on the=20,A controllers, and you are using volshad to shadow the raid-0 sets.i  H That means you have effectively created a kind of raid 0+1 setup, but in
 the way=20G it should not be done. If you get into a situation that 1 disk fails inl each=20eG stripeset (after loss of power for instance), all data will be lost andt you will=20 F spend a lot of time creating new stripesets. Furthermore you can't use the=20E controllers ability to automatically replace a failed disk by a spare  disk.s  D The right way to do it is to set up mirror sets of disks, and stripe those. From=20H a viewpoint of data security this is much safer. In every mirror set one disk=20iB can fail without the data being lost. However you can't do this in combination=20B with volshad. This is a pure hardware controller setup (normally).  G These days we use volshad only in multi site fibrechannel clusters. Onef node and=20hD a raid cabinet is located on every site. On the raid cabinets we use raid 0+1=20nF sets for maximum performance or raid-5 sets for applications that need less=20o= performance. These raid sets are shadowed (with volshad) to aa raidcabinet on the=20nE other site. However only writes are done on both raid sets. Reads ares only=20 G performed on the local raid cabinet (unles that is down of course). Andg
 yes, in=20D case of raid 0+1 sets we need 4 times the amount of storage capacity
 that is=20 visible to the application.d  F So there is more to it then just performance. Data security and uptime
 is also=20? very important. And with aging disks the chance of disk failuree increases...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:40:37 GMTo8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: how do you start X#2 Message-ID: <9HEi9.22$GG6.234515@news.cpqcorp.net>  3 In article <3d8a0bb7.24586531@news.cable.ntl.com>, r? peter.watkinson1@<nospam>ntlworld.com (Peter Watkinson) writes:y  C >               ... I selected option 4 which said something like -n >display items installed ..
 >Open VMS 7.2  >motif >tcp ip etcu    d? Peter -- Not to pick on you in particular, but if you tell use eD "something like" what was actually displayed, you will, in general, B get "something like" an answer -- which may or may not be correct.J i.e. seemingly small details can often make a surprisingly big difference.  I That said, it looks like you have "something like" the necessary softwaretL installed.  My guess is that, as others have said, you need to do "something. like" installing the correct licenses.  <grin>   Good Luck, and ENJOY!e  F BTW, if you get to the $ prompt you can enter the command SHOW LICENSE6 to see what licenses, if any, are correctly installed.   -- eI       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:40:35 +0100 (MET)c9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r# Subject: Re: HP website integratione; Message-ID: <01KMQ2SW2DMQ9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  M > EVERY single link has to be re-coded, all the little red > arrows become >>n4 > arrows. all the styles have changed. Stuff that we- > didn't have to have coded is now required..h > M > We used to have to do all titles initial caps. now they are all lower case.y  I Sounds like a good argument for generating the presentation-oriented web t; pages automatically from some content-oriented source.  :-|l   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2002 00:16:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: Humm, I am getting confused between a PDP and a Vax- Message-ID: <87y99w63ha.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  / Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com> writes:   F >  The PDP-3 was a 36-bit design, never built by DEC but a one-off wasE > created by a front company for a large secret US government agency.   > Ah, so the 3 was a No Such Archtecture! That explains why some, mob would be mad enought to build a one off.   -- 1< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:46:11 -0400s3 From: "Technical Futures, Inc." <tfi@ix.netcom.com>aU Subject: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel Developmentr, Message-ID: <3D8B34B3.4010801@ix.netcom.com>  2 One of my clients, a leading software development ! company based in the Boston area,v- has the following four senior level openings:d  #     Sr. Internal Database Architecte$     Sr. Kernel Development Architect$     Sr. Compiler/Languages Architect&     Sr. Internal Systems SQL Architect  1 The company is a leader in developing middleware o technology-based software and a , strong player in the relational DBMS market.  - They are looking for senior-level individual  $ contributors to develop new software, products and enhance and maintains existing * software products; consult on a wide range( of issues among all product development ( departments, not limited to any specific platform or product.  0 The caliber of people that this company employs ' are from the top schools in the countrya2 having exceptional skills (distributed databases, $ client/server technology, relational3 databases, etc.).  Requirements include: BS, MS or   PhD; 10+ years experiences withr2 software product development; Relational Database $ engines/tools, UNIX, VMS or Windows;2 Experiences working at a System Level rather than % Application Level.   Highly technicalc- knowledge of operating systems, compiler and >) interpreter methods, software engineeringu techniques, would be preferred.a  + U.S. Citizen or Permanent Resident requiredg/ Very competitive salary package:  100K - 130K+ o+ Base  plus  incentives  plus full benefits.,  % The 2 key mandatory requirements are:t-    1.  Systems level experiences (not at the   application level)-    2.  Degreed from one of the top technical t universities in thet         country.  ! Local New England candidates onlyn  / Please EMAIL your resume to:  tfi@ix.netcom.com   3 Your resume will remain strictly confidential, and e' will not be disclosed to anyone withouty your prior approval.                  Ben Oifer$              Technical Futures, Inc.+              354 Turnpike Street, Suite 102f              Canton, MA  02021"              Phone: (781) 821-1600"              Fax:   (781) 821-0099%              Email: tfi@ix.netcom.comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:19:32 GMTv5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>qY Subject: Re: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel Developmentr2 Message-ID: <80Hi9.49$kO6.426144@news.cpqcorp.net>  - >   2.  Degreed from one of the top technicale >universities in the >        country.a  J Picky, picky, picky.  I'll note that this will limit them from getting theL "best" people, some of the "best" Systems people I know have no degree, haveK degree's in unrelated fields, or didn't come from MIT, or Stanford, or CMU,) etc.  K Is the Boston area "Boston" or is it in north MA or southern NH?  There are K a lot of people in the general area, but who might not want to commute into  say, Cambridge.o    L Technical Futures, Inc. wrote in message <3D8B34B3.4010801@ix.netcom.com>... >h2 >One of my clients, a leading software development" >company based in the Boston area,. >has the following four senior level openings: >n$ >    Sr. Internal Database Architect% >    Sr. Kernel Development Architect % >    Sr. Compiler/Languages Architectt' >    Sr. Internal Systems SQL Architects >r1 >The company is a leader in developing middlewaren  >technology-based software and a- >strong player in the relational DBMS market.- >-- >They are looking for senior-level individualm% >contributors to develop new softwarea, >products and enhance and maintains existing+ >software products; consult on a wide rangeu( >of issues among all product development) >departments, not limited to any specifico >platform or product.y >m0 >The caliber of people that this company employs( >are from the top schools in the country2 >having exceptional skills (distributed databases,% >client/server technology, relationalp3 >databases, etc.).  Requirements include: BS, MS ort  >PhD; 10+ years experiences with2 >software product development; Relational Database% >engines/tools, UNIX, VMS or Windows;?2 >Experiences working at a System Level rather than& >Application Level.   Highly technical- >knowledge of operating systems, compiler andf* >interpreter methods, software engineering  >techniques, would be preferred. >i, >U.S. Citizen or Permanent Resident required/ >Very competitive salary package:  100K - 130K+ , >Base  plus  incentives  plus full benefits. >n& >The 2 key mandatory requirements are:- >   1.  Systems level experiences (not at theB >application level)r- >   2.  Degreed from one of the top technicale >universities in the >        country.l >m" >Local New England candidates only >e0 >Please EMAIL your resume to:  tfi@ix.netcom.com >a3 >Your resume will remain strictly confidential, andt( >will not be disclosed to anyone without >your prior approval.- >- >- >             Ben Oifer2% >             Technical Futures, Inc.., >             354 Turnpike Street, Suite 102 >             Canton, MA  02021Z# >             Phone: (781) 821-1600.# >             Fax:   (781) 821-0099r& >             Email: tfi@ix.netcom.com >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:10:21 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>kY Subject: RE: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects / Kernel Development 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEFIFMAA.tom@kednos.com>o  < I note, on the other hand, that they didn't mention anything about your handicap:-)   >-----Original Message-----d; >From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]p) >Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:20 AMl >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >Subject: Re: JOB OPENINGS IN BOSTON: Sr. Internal Systems Architects /e >Kernel Developmento >c > . >>   2.  Degreed from one of the top technical >>universities in the- >>        country. >0K >Picky, picky, picky.  I'll note that this will limit them from getting the @ >"best" people, some of the "best" Systems people I know have no
 >degree, havegL >degree's in unrelated fields, or didn't come from MIT, or Stanford, or CMU, >etc.8 >iL >Is the Boston area "Boston" or is it in north MA or southern NH?  There areL >a lot of people in the general area, but who might not want to commute into >say, Cambridge. >? >t) >Technical Futures, Inc. wrote in messagee$ ><3D8B34B3.4010801@ix.netcom.com>... >>3 >>One of my clients, a leading software developmenta# >>company based in the Boston area,c/ >>has the following four senior level openings:p >>% >>    Sr. Internal Database Architect & >>    Sr. Kernel Development Architect& >>    Sr. Compiler/Languages Architect( >>    Sr. Internal Systems SQL Architect >>2 >>The company is a leader in developing middleware! >>technology-based software and a-. >>strong player in the relational DBMS market. >>. >>They are looking for senior-level individual& >>contributors to develop new software- >>products and enhance and maintains existingY, >>software products; consult on a wide range) >>of issues among all product developmentd* >>departments, not limited to any specific >>platform or product. >>1 >>The caliber of people that this company employsa) >>are from the top schools in the countryl3 >>having exceptional skills (distributed databases,o& >>client/server technology, relational4 >>databases, etc.).  Requirements include: BS, MS or! >>PhD; 10+ years experiences withc3 >>software product development; Relational DatabaseI& >>engines/tools, UNIX, VMS or Windows;3 >>Experiences working at a System Level rather than-' >>Application Level.   Highly technical2. >>knowledge of operating systems, compiler and+ >>interpreter methods, software engineeringR! >>techniques, would be preferred.s >>- >>U.S. Citizen or Permanent Resident requiredc0 >>Very competitive salary package:  100K - 130K+- >>Base  plus  incentives  plus full benefits.  >>' >>The 2 key mandatory requirements are:r. >>   1.  Systems level experiences (not at the >>application level). >>   2.  Degreed from one of the top technical >>universities in the2 >>        country. >># >>Local New England candidates only- >>1 >>Please EMAIL your resume to:  tfi@ix.netcom.com  >>4 >>Your resume will remain strictly confidential, and) >>will not be disclosed to anyone withoutD >>your prior approval. >> >> >>             Ben Oifer& >>             Technical Futures, Inc.- >>             354 Turnpike Street, Suite 102   >>             Canton, MA  02021$ >>             Phone: (781) 821-1600$ >>             Fax:   (781) 821-0099' >>             Email: tfi@ix.netcom.comp >> >g >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.3; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).nA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002s >t ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:55:16 +0200s* From: "Karel Sandler" <sandler@ujf.cas.cz> Subject: Re: LAT connections+ Message-ID: <amera4$2abr$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>a  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:thm2wuJdxydX@eisner.encompasserve.org...e< > In article <am9pgg$htv$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>, "Karel Sandler" <sandler@ujf.cas.cz> writes:K > > I would appreciate it if someone can help me with LAT. I have some unixfJ > > alphas and two old MicroVaxes (VAX/VMS V5.4-1) now. Both have LAT, but onlyK > > one TCPIP. I can connect to them from alphas using unix llogin command,V but(G > > don't know how to establish login from vax to unix, if needed. I amk lookingtK > > for the right sequence of  LATCP and SET HOST commands, without success0 yet. >  >    set host /lat >e  I Thanks for a hint. Unfortunately,  VAX/VMS V5.4-1 has not /LAT qualifier.e@ Nevertheless, I found finally, that the following commands work: LCP>    create port lta1:r1 LCP>    set port lta1: /node=alpha /service=alphaa $ set host /dte lta1:   To logout from alpha, use ctrl \  	 K.Sandler-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:15:26 GMTw1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)oF Subject: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC= Message-ID: <iWzi9.495931$q53.16834234@twister.austin.rr.com>/* Keywords: nasa,kills,launch,system,upgrade  I Although the 1970s-vintage systems referred to are Modcomp minicomputers,hH perhaps some of this might be applicable to planned replacements of VMS 3 systems that are still fulfilling all requirements:h    ;    http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/fl_clcs_020918.htmle4    NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC  H   "CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- Five years behind schedule and expected to goG    $300 million over budget, Kennedy Space Center's plan to upgrade itso>    1970s-era launch computers is now another example that NASA=    Administrator Sean O'Keefe is not bluffing about financialt    accountability.    aF    NASA killed the Checkout Launch and Control System project Tuesday,I    citing missed deadlines and bloated spending. Despite all of the extra G    time and money, an independent review by NASA headquarters found the =    project would fall far short of its promised cost savings.l    hI    Instead of cutting the cost of running Launch Control Center computerstF    in half as NASA promised back in 1997, the independent review foundH    the new computer system -- even if could be completed -- was going toA    cost $15 million more per year to run than the existing LaunchwF    Processing System. So, NASA managers decided, there was no point in(    throwing more money into the project.    oG    "This is showing the new administrator is trying to get some of thistC    stuff under control," said Allen Li, an auditor with the GeneraliC    Accounting Office who authored a series of reports detailing the$I    agency's inability to control costs on the International Space Station F    project. "This is illustrative of what he said the President wanted7    him to do: bring some financial discipline to NASA."     /	    [snip]=    aC    Over the years, the documents said Kennedy Space Center has been.B    upgrading its existing Launch Processing System, which includesG    technology dating back to the 1970s, as needed since the late 1980s. G    The old system, because of the upgrades, has functioned just fine inoG    handling every shuttle launch so far, the review team's report said.      D    "The system is safe and viable to meet the projected needs of theC    shuttle program," the NASA report said. In addition, some of thesI    equipment purchased and software developed for the CLCS may be able to-H    be combined with the existing system. NASA gave the program's workersE    60 days to work on just such questions, spokesman Bruce BuckinghamD    said..."9    8D The existing shuttle launch computers are Modcomp minicomputers withH a custom operating system written by IBM/FSD, instead of using Modcomp's MAX II or MAX IV:s    A    http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/computers/Ch7-3.html     Ch7-3  F    "...Since test engineers would write the applications software, the>     software contractor would be primarily responsible for the@     operating system under which the applications would run, the<     new test language, GOAL (for Ground Operations Aerospace=     Language), and any modifications to the microcode for theh<     minicomputers and other equipment needed to successfully?     connect them. Interfacing largely became a software problemi@     because the changes were to be implemented in microcode. Six?     contractors tried for the job, with IBM beating out Generalt1     Electric, TRW, Computer Sciences Corporation,.:     McDonnell-Douglas, and Harris Computer Corporation..."      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaild   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:23:52 +0200hE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> J Subject: Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC+ Message-ID: <3D8AF738.1F43F473@mediasec.de>-  E At some place in the article, the cost-to-completion was estimated atiM around $560M. That's at least 3000 person-years of effort, for some 3 million8F lines of code (why so much, anyway?). So a person on this project doesF 1000 lines of code per year, or about 4 lines per average working day./ Man, what would I give to have a job like that.r   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:26:33 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Making foreign file systems available to VMSp, Message-ID: <3D8ABF93.DB990D05@videotron.ca>  . I have various wishlists to develop over time.  N A simple one would be a way to just type, copy, edit a file obtained via HTTP:  E This could be accomplished by creating an account with a "open" proxy N available to all, whose SYS$LOGIN would start a FAL program which would obtainN the file information (a url) and fetch the contents and feed them to the user.   eg:d $DEFINE HTTP  "0"HTTP_CLIENT""  N so that one could  TYPE HTTP::"WWW.CHOCOLATE.ORG/INDEX.HTML"  which would openK a DECNET link on this node with user "HTTP_CLIENT" which would then run the-L equivalent of fetch_http to get the contents.  This is similar in concept to the old DECNET-SNA gateways.  B For this, I would need the specs for the DAP/FAl protocol, right ? GOOGLE gave me this:. 	ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/DECnet/PhaseIV/2 	In there you'll find the DAP 5.6.0 specification.  L But alas, the DECnet directory is no longer there.  There was also a URL for) the old gatekeeper.digital.com mentioned.s  L NOW, before I get too serious about this, are there other methods that wouldH achieve this without relying on DECnet ? (since DECnet may not be around
 forever).   0 Using DECNET would give me functionality such asL F$EXIST("HTTP::""www.chocolate.org/index.html""") to check for the existence of a url for instance.  " Now, onto more difficult question:  L If I wanted to make a PDA's file system available on VMS, but the PDA didn'tL have an NFS server but some proprietary synchronisation thing. How difficultN would it be to write software on VMS that would have that proprietary protocolG to talk to the PDA, and then create an NFS drive that would then becomec( available to user(s) on the VMS system ?  H (Alternatively, I could also use the FAL/DAP method to create the bridge% between the 2 proprietary protocols).   G The only program I know that implemented FAL was the DECNET/SNA gateway A product. Would there be example programs on how to emulate this ?s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:37:59 GMTe From: sasadmin <jec@nospam.net>w9 Subject: Re: Making foreign file systems available to VMS 2 Message-ID: <87elbov9ux.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:-  0 > I have various wishlists to develop over time.  & You make some interesting suggestions.  :C > so that one could TYPE HTTP::"WWW.CHOCOLATE.ORG/INDEX.HTML" whichv  * What does "copy/ftp <file> sys$output" do?  I > to talk to the PDA, and then create an NFS drive that would then becomeh* > available to user(s) on the VMS system ?  > Linux (and by extension NFS) runs on several PDAs, e.g. the HP
 "Unobtanium".n   -- e Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:56:30 +0100g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.i8 Message-ID: <amklouc268gnocfqplfntm7qds5au1o79f@4ax.com>  4 On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:19:14 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:s    M >It would be interesting to have a forum to discuss all this stuff in! But ifnI >Iraq conducted a fully functional subsurface nuke test, seismology woulde> >have picked it up. Other technology works well for airbursts.  A The test was allegedly carried out in a huge cavern under a lake. C This, together with other tricks helped 'decouple' and disguise themD explosion (their words). A small tremor *was* recorded in the region at the time.  6 Not saying I believe it. Just reporting what was said.  D What is not in dispute is that a British journalist of Iraqi descentF was picked up close to the site and then publicly executed despite the protests of Margaret Thatcher.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:34:20 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.e? Message-ID: <g4Bi9.335335$kp.1061620@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>a  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8A89A4.22DECA78@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:hH > > The WTC was designed to take a B-707, thr 757 and 767 are larger and contain- > > lots more fuel.2 >eJ > The 767 contains roughly as much fuel as the 707. However, the engineersJ > admitted that they had not taken into consideration the fuel as a source of7 > heat/fire, only the mechanical aspects of the impact.n >iF > > And a final thought: imagine a fully-loaded liquified natiural gas tankerD > > blowing up in Boston or NYC or Philly or Oakland or San Diego or
 Galveston,K > > etc. Do the math on a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion).- >-I > Do a search on the Halifax Fire many decades ago. Perhaps not quite the. same1 > scale as what you describe, but same principle.-  K Or the Texas City incident, when a cargo ship full of ammonium nitrate went L kapow. The skipper was unaware of the endothermic and exothermic behavior of said substance.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:35:10 GMTs1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.s? Message-ID: <25Bi9.335341$kp.1062228@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>O  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:amklouc268gnocfqplfntm7qds5au1o79f@4ax.com...6 > On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:19:14 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"! > <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:  >  > L > >It would be interesting to have a forum to discuss all this stuff in! But ifK > >Iraq conducted a fully functional subsurface nuke test, seismology would @ > >have picked it up. Other technology works well for airbursts. >	C > The test was allegedly carried out in a huge cavern under a lake.oE > This, together with other tricks helped 'decouple' and disguise the F > explosion (their words). A small tremor *was* recorded in the region > at the time. >-8 > Not saying I believe it. Just reporting what was said. >mF > What is not in dispute is that a British journalist of Iraqi descentH > was picked up close to the site and then publicly executed despite the  > protests of Margaret Thatcher. >V   Correct.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 10:50:19 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.l6 Message-ID: <20020920105019.24430.qmail@nym.alias.net>  C On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:O >> The WTC was designed to take a B-707, thr 757 and 767 are larger and containr >> lots more fuel. >tI >The 767 contains roughly as much fuel as the 707. However, the engineersoL >admitted that they had not taken into consideration the fuel as a source of6 >heat/fire, only the mechanical aspects of the impact.  H I believe the original WTC design included asbestos for fire protection.' Obviously that would have been removed.      Doc. -- f6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:12:23 +0100e' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.00 Message-ID: <amf6v2$ovj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:     > J > No, just people who can see multiple facets of an issue rather than wearI > blinders.  I heartily supported kicking Saddam's ass out of Kuwait, and J > heartily condemned the actions of his troops when they withdrew.  I alsoL > don't fault GHWB (for whom I have considerably more respect, and fondness,N > than I do for his son) for not having pressed on to Baghdad:  it was a toughH > choice to make at the time and a defensible one, even though hindsight/ > suggests that it may have been the wrong one.t > M > But none of that excuses the use of lies (to one's own people and Congress)e1 > to garner support for the effort.  Not one bit.d >   = They interviewed John Major the British Prime Minister at the 7 time of the gulf war a couple of days ago and asked himo7 if in hindsight he thought they should have gone on andn finished the job.b  8 He said in hindsight no. The alliance against Saddam had6 a mandate from UN to kick Saddam out of Kuwait and the6 very carefully constructed alliance was formed on that basis.  7 The Gulf Arab states, Saudi, Jordan, Egypt etc were allt6 on board on that basis and not on the basis of heading
 on to Bagdad.r  5 Major felt that if the Americans, British etc haddn'tt5 stopped and had instead headed on to Bagdad that theyn7 would have been in breach of International Law and theyu7 would have earned the long term distrust of large partsi4 of the international community which would have been very damaging.  5 He pointed out that if the US had deposed Saddam thent0 they would have had huge difficulties in putting4 together any similar type of alliance in the future.  6 He didn't say it but you could argue that the Alliance= in the War against terror would have been much more difficult-1 to construct if the west had gone on to overthrowm Saddam.o   Regardsg Andrew Harrison    > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:31:52 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>i! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.p? Message-ID: <sjGi9.375484$_91.484315@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messages0 news:20020920105019.24430.qmail@nym.alias.net...E > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  > >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:I > >> The WTC was designed to take a B-707, thr 757 and 767 are larger and  containu > >> lots more fuel. > >lK > >The 767 contains roughly as much fuel as the 707. However, the engineers,K > >admitted that they had not taken into consideration the fuel as a sourcec of8 > >heat/fire, only the mechanical aspects of the impact. > J > I believe the original WTC design included asbestos for fire protection.) > Obviously that would have been removed.s  K Correct. And unfortunate. Multiple redundant fire dept and sprinkler risers & are likely to become codified, though.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:33:32 GMTw1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>r! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.e- Message-ID: <0lGi9.155370$Jo.48586@rwcrnsc53>s  # "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"H> <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message* news:amf6v2$ovj$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >) >e > Bill Todd wrote: >t >d > >nL > > No, just people who can see multiple facets of an issue rather than wearK > > blinders.  I heartily supported kicking Saddam's ass out of Kuwait, andhL > > heartily condemned the actions of his troops when they withdrew.  I alsoD > > don't fault GHWB (for whom I have considerably more respect, and	 fondness,oJ > > than I do for his son) for not having pressed on to Baghdad:  it was a toughoJ > > choice to make at the time and a defensible one, even though hindsight1 > > suggests that it may have been the wrong one.u > >bE > > But none of that excuses the use of lies (to one's own people andr	 Congress)o3 > > to garner support for the effort.  Not one bit.t > >t >k? > They interviewed John Major the British Prime Minister at theH9 > time of the gulf war a couple of days ago and asked hime9 > if in hindsight he thought they should have gone on and  > finished the job.c >A: > He said in hindsight no. The alliance against Saddam had8 > a mandate from UN to kick Saddam out of Kuwait and the8 > very carefully constructed alliance was formed on that > basis. >r9 > The Gulf Arab states, Saudi, Jordan, Egypt etc were allC8 > on board on that basis and not on the basis of heading > on to Bagdad.c >67 > Major felt that if the Americans, British etc haddn'tc7 > stopped and had instead headed on to Bagdad that theyt9 > would have been in breach of International Law and theyn9 > would have earned the long term distrust of large partsS6 > of the international community which would have been > very damaging. >i7 > He pointed out that if the US had deposed Saddam then 2 > they would have had huge difficulties in putting6 > together any similar type of alliance in the future. >a8 > He didn't say it but you could argue that the Alliance? > in the War against terror would have been much more difficultk3 > to construct if the west had gone on to overthrown	 > Saddam.  >   I All very true. But another 8-12 hours of tank-killing, etc might not haveb hurt.2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:08:45 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.o8 Message-ID: <1pdmou091dl05a3n5jemracciqqm9pgs8r@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:12:23 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyy4 <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote:    7 >He didn't say it but you could argue that the Alliancen> >in the War against terror would have been much more difficult2 >to construct if the west had gone on to overthrow >Saddam.  B He also said  that Saddam was told that if he used weapons of massE destruction there would be *certain* retaliation in kind. It was madesF very, very clear to Saddam that he would not remain in power. In other? words he'd be dead. Had we gone onto Baghdad at the time it wastA thought likely that Saddam would have used any NBC weapons at hisn: disposal as soon as he realised he was doomed in any case.  C Just what implications this has this time round when the stated aimrF (of Bush) "is* to depose him I hate to think. I really, really hope heE does not have a functional scud mounted a-bomb hidden away somewhere.rD We can all guess where it would be targetted if he feels the game is up.    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 22:44:11 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.i- Message-ID: <87fzw47mbo.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  = > While always looking for ulterior motives, what seems to besA > overlooked is the apparent 'unthinkableness' of airliners beingf. > flown into the WTC, until after it happened.  @ Said from a building with SAMs on the roof, as do serveral otherF building near the WH. Give me a break. And just this sort of thing wasC brought up back in the Dessert Storm days. I considered a LPG Super > Tanker was a better way, but then I'm know for `being subtle'.  D Mind you, look who is in the WH. You could make a good case for none. of them realising the sun rises in the east...   -- d< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:08:13 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>#! Subject: Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.n, Message-ID: <3D8B640C.8799763D@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:,J > I believe the original WTC design included asbestos for fire protection.) > Obviously that would have been removed.a  M Nop. from what I read, the lower parts of WTC1 had the metal coated with foamiM containing asbestos, and during construction, this was stopped and a new type < fo foam coating was used. Tower 2 was all with the new foam.  K This is why many firemen and workers at the site had serious concerns about.
 their health.l   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 08:48:23 -0700, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)4 Subject: Re: Oracle 7.3, Pro*FORTRAN and using dates= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0209200748.1abfa48c@posting.google.com>c  j wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) wrote in message news:<9288A34AFwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>...2 > colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) wrote in 4 > <b10654c6.0209131111.60abf2a3@posting.google.com>: > F > >Well, I'm just a system hack doing an applications programmer's job@ > >right now...  On an OpenVMS 7.1 system running Oracle 7.3 andH > >Pro*FORTRAN.  (It's old, but hey, it's paying the bills right now...) > >-H > >In doing some maintenance on an Oracle-based app, I need to introduceD > >some logic that deals with dates.  Now, I'm much more comfortableH > >using VMS system dates (64-bit internal) and using system service/RTLG > >calls to accomplish date manipulation.  And I'm somewhat familiar oneI > >the Oracle side with Oracle's built-in DATE type (which isn't the samevF > >as VMS), and the TO_DATE() function.  So my appeal is to those withD > >more application experience than myself -- which method would YOU. > >choose to stick with in dealing with dates? > >tC > >I'd rather just define my columns in Oracle as RAW(8), store the-H > >64-bit VMS internal time in the RAW column, use VMS calls and be doneH > >with it, but alas it appears RAW() isn't a good choice (from what I'mF > >reading and experiencing myself) in dealing with data.  But I don'tI > >want to do a lot of work moving between Oracle's DATE type and the VMSa
 > >format. > >eH > >In short, I'm admitting I'm plenty deficient in using the Oracle DATEF > >type.  I'd rather just use the VMS 64-bit internal time format, butA > >any dates (in this app) HAVE to be stored in an Oracle table.  A > >Suggestions?  I am going to have to do some date comparisions,nB > >manipulations, etc. in this app... not just store static dates. > >  > >Chris > >  >  > Chris, > M > I've done a lot of Oracle programming in Pro*C, with heavy date usage (one hJ > app was a shop-floor scheduler).  I really can't say enough good things B > about Oracle's date handling.  Want an OpenVMS formatted date?   > 7 >     	TO_CHAR (mydate_column, 'DD-MON-YYY HH24:MI:SS')B > L > The only downside is no hundredths of a second (IIRC) in the Oracle world. > K > Want to convert a date in your program variable to store in the database?e >  > insert into myTablen >     	(mydate_column) values 8 >     	(TO_DATE(:DateVariable, 'DD-MON-YYY HH24:MI:SS')) > L > Do you have desktop users that need to select rows from your tables using J > perhaps MS Access, Excel, or other similar tools?  They'll be unable to > > decode your raw dates if you store them as OpenVMS binaries. > N > Best advice I can give:  Absolutely use Oracle's native date data types and L > functions.  They're very good, and your "adjustment" period will be quite 
 > minimal. > N > And yes, RAW columns have restrictions - avoid their use until you *really* M > need them.  Betcha can't even sort on them (but I'm not sure), which would a1 > make retrieving rows sorted by date impossible.m >  > ws    E Alright Warren...  This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking = for.  I'll go with your suggestion.  Sounds like sage advice.e   Thanks!d ChrisM -----  Chris Olives colive(at)technologEase(dot)comu   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 04:52:24 -0700  From: nmanser@progis.de (Manser)9 Subject: Re: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for Itanium ????a= Message-ID: <2178d61f.0209200352.13864f38@posting.google.com>   F RDB 8.0 was a field test version T8.0.1.3 then rdb engeneering renamed it   Here is the document:r    C Rdb Product Management has been using the name Rdb8 to refer to then next major releaseF of Oracle Rdb on OpenVMS. After careful analysis and consultation with
 customers,2 Rdb8 has been renamed to Oracle Rdb Version 7.1.    E The name change does not imply any changes in the features we plan to  offer in theC release.  All the features that have been discussed when describing. Rdb8 are included E in Rdb 7.1. In fact, all new functionality has been completed, and wen
 are currentlyr   (stuff skipped...)  D We are making this change because we do not want to create the false impression thattC the scope of this release is similar to that of Rdb7.0.  Rdb7.0 was  the largest release A in our history.  As is typical of the Rdb user base, a "dot zero"p release is adoptedA at a much slower rate than interim releases due to more extensive & testing that is done prior to upgrade.  F The Rdb team believes that the new release is more evolutionary than a
 major "dot? zero" release.  We also want to encourage our customers to take  immediate advantageeF of the new support for Compaq's powerful Galaxy software and GS series Alpha Servers.F In addition, Rdb 7.1 offers important new SQL features, and an updated
 version of? SQL*Net for Rdb brings enhanced compatibility with other Oraclee
 technologies.r  C By designating the new release as Oracle Rdb 7.1, we believe we area sending a moreF accurate message to Rdb users and that they will be able to accelerate) the adoption of this significant release.i  F The Rdb group at Oracle is excited about Rdb 7.1.  We believe you will be too.8  
 Sincerely,   Kevin Duffye    
 Nazim Manser.e  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KMOUAP0CL29QW0O4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...4 > > Oracle RDB 8.0 - will be the Itanium version ??? > > 
 > > Click  > > c > > http://www.oracle.com/rdb/product_info/html_documents/index.html?rdb_80_to_71_announcement.html  >  > Non sequitur.n > K > Look at the date on that web page: 11-DEC-2000.  Well before ANYONE knew -H > about VMS on Itanium, I suppose.  In other words, the two things have   > nothing to do with each other. > E > Having said that, one can of course ask what will be the first Rdb uE > release on Itanium.  Considering the fact that someone In The Know oI > (Fred?) said here that the first VMS release on Itanium would probably sI > not be a .0 release, but rather 7.x, I really doubt that Rdb will wait oD > until 8.x for an Itanium release.  Consider that 7.0.x.y is still  > supported on VAX and ALPHA.r > J > Rdb is written in BLISS.  BLISS is needed for VMS, so will be ported to J > Itanium (probably already is).  Considering that VAX--->ALPHA is a much I > bigger difference and there are still "parallel code streams" here, it hC > seems to me that Rdb on Itanium will simply be the current ALPHA rG > version, just like there is also an ALPHA version of the current VAX  K > version (7.1.x.y is ALPHA only, I think mainly because of galaxy support eJ > and other big changes---folks still using Rdb on VAX don't need a major F > upgrade with features which they can never use (not only due to VMS J > support, but if they need the features of galaxy, they would already be  > on ALPHA anyway)).   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 23:14:43 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: OT Re: Mr. Bush at the U.N.0 Message-ID: <87bs6s7kws.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>  3 John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:   D > Let's get some fact in here so you can consider them for yourself.  nF > * Despite all the current talk, more than 15 years have passed since? > Saddam Hussein attacked his own citizens with BCW.  It is not F > something that happened in the last few months despte what you might > be led to believe.  2C > * About 15 years ago George Bush Snr's Administration was on goodJF > terms with Saddam Hussein and regarded him as a strong leader and if: > not pro-US then at least not anti-US.  George Bush Snr's? > administration would also have been aware of Saddam Hussein'siA > attacks on his own citizens but they chose to turn a blind eye.F  C In at least one set of Chem attacks, the US activly assisted in thepC planning of the attack, knowing that Chemical wepons would be used.O  PE > * No-one has displayed any public evidence to suggest that bio-chemn0 > weapons are being manufactured and stockpiled.  > Using matterials and equipment supplied by the US, UK, France,A Germany, rest of Europe, and probaby the USSR. Or do carbon fibre ; ultra-centrifuge rotors grow on trees in the Iraqui desert?v  oH > * No-one has displayed any public evidence of any intention by Iraq toF > invade other countries since the Kuwait invasion about 15 years ago.  " Iraq had 3 main beefs with Kuwait.  F They claimed an `island'/sandbar that effectivly block Basra as a deepA water port. One of the Kuwati princes was asked about this on ABCeD (ours) TV, and stated that if peace could be restored by dredging itA out of existance, then that was not a problem. Not a word on thata topic since.  @ The disputed territory (go look in your atlas, that is how it is- marked) with Kuwait and their drilling there.c  D Claims the Kuwaits where drilling horizontally into oil bodies underC Iraq. Several people in the oil industry consider this to be almostaD certainly true, in some cases based on down-hole logger data and the like.S  rE > * No-one has displayed any public evidence to confirm that Iraq wassG > involved with bin Laden - or for that matter even any independent and B > impartial evidence that bin Laden was directly involved with the1 > planning and operation of the Sep 2001 attacks.   D Except for the Kuwaiti misadventure, Saddam has always stayed in his	 own pond.   lE > * Iraq is significantly short of delivery mechanisms for weapons ofsF > mass destruction (ie. rockets) and so its ability to attack is quite
 > limited.  cB > * The USA, UK, Russia and many others have stockpiles of BCW andB > there is absolutely nothing to suggest that they would never use1 > them if they were attacked by a superior force.n  D I think you should read the new US defense doctrine. The above is no longer true.  fF > * If killing one's own civilians was the justification for attackingA > a country then why did the US wait so long before attacking theeE > Taleban forces in Afghanistan ?  Why did the US not attack China on1D > numerous occasions in the last 40 years ?  Why not Idi Amin in theB > 1970's in Uganda ?  Why did the US actively support the PinochetE > regime and others in South America even though these regimes killedc> > thousands of their own citizens ?  And why did the US deposeD > socialist governments in Central America even though the electionsD > were fair and there were no mass killings by the government ?  TheF > answer is simple - it depended on how much the USA was interested in > that country.    B > * No-one has said a word against Israel, a country that also hasC > weapons of mass destruction and Bio-Chem Weapons, and in the last = > six months has used those Bio-Chem weapons on Palestinians.2  B Oh? Where and when? Plus Israel is a nuke power. Funny how that is never mentioned.  fD > * The Bush administration has said that they want "regime changes"F > in Syria, Palestine and Yemen.  Talk of American intervention in the= > Middle-east is only encouraging more young people to become - > militants in many countries in that region.m  F Makes no sense at all. What DOES make sense is using Iraq as a trigger> to get Saudi Arabia to blow and melt down into civil war, thenD `rescue' them. Oh, and look, there is all this oil, what a supprise.  e< > * A regime change in Israel would be far more effective atB > establishing a peace in the Middle-east than would a ongoing warF > against any regime that the US happened to disagree with.  When EhudC > Barak was prime minister of Israel there were far fewer deaths inr9 > Israel and Palestine then there have been under Sharon.f  F Agree there. If there is anyone who needs to be fitted for a rope, the* Butcher of Beiruit is far and away winner.  fF > * Having US troops in Saudi Arabia to prop up the dictatorship is anF > indignity on political and religious grounds, so it is not suprisingD > that resentment is growing.  Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship and isE > steadily brewing towards a revolution especially with the increasedS > opposition to the US.i  F King Faud is in hospital in Switzeland, and probably will not come outE alive. A few weeks ago, 2 Saudi princes had sudden heart attacks, and=> another was found dead of thirst in the dessert. No suspiciousD circumstances, honest. And many of the Saudi royals support the aimsB of the nice Mr Olsen to get all infedel yanquis away from the holy6 cities. THAT, don't forget is what BinLaden was after.   E > * Oil was the key factor in the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and now itrD > appears to be a factor for American intervention.  If Saudi ArabiaE > falls then a major pro-American oil producer in the Middle-east haseB > disappeared. If this did happen then Israel would be left as theF > only pro-American country in that region but it has no oil. The factD > that any new administration in SA would need to find customers forD > their oil seems to have escaped Bush's consideration.  (Cheney andA > Bush have good contacts in the petroleum industry and of coursey  > plenty of financial interest.)  ? Note also that the Taliban only became target d'jour after they F contracted Argentina to build the Caspian pipline. And the Argies thenB had a minor bit of bother with their peso all of a sudden.  What a
 co-incedence.s  D Oh, and now that we should all just think about `our friend', we areE told that it is `nearly certain' that the nice Mr Olsen has cashed in E his CIA passport and dropped off his perch. How considerate of him tos kark it at the right time.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:24:32 +0100 (MET)"9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: PIPE BACKUP/LISTl; Message-ID: <01KMQ29GQVCI9OF8NK@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > >When I do BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE, it takes a while to produce all the tJ > >output.  With PIPE BACK/LIST X.BCK/SAVE | SEARCH SYS$INPUT "y z", it's  > >over completely.  ... > G > Maybe you are seeing the difference between CPU/MEMORY/DISK speed andS > display output speed.  > A > With the BACKUP command alone, the list has to be be displayed;.H > this slows things down.  In the pipe, the output is past at cpu/memory< > speed to the SEARCH command, which produces little output.  = No, since with the PIPE it doesn't find the string it should.d   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 09:11:20 -07001 From: glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin)d/ Subject: Re: QUEUE MANAGER dying during backupsu= Message-ID: <6e2f14f4.0209200811.79079dd8@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0209190726.28469923@posting.google.com>...Sx > glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin) wrote in message news:<6e2f14f4.0209181206.42a2e6dd@posting.google.com>...G > > About once every other week (corresponding with our full backups ofuI > > the disk containing SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL) our QUEUE MANAGERI: > > is dying. Any ideas as to why this might be happening? > > * > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Glen > >  > > OpenVMS Alpha v6.2 oI > > The following events in OPERATOR.LOG are representative of what showsr > > up:  > >  > [...]m > 8 > Can you give us the exact backup command used, please? > 4 > Did your backup command include /IGNORE=INTERLOCK? >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmano   From our backup command file:e $       BACKUP  /IMAGE -                 /RECORD -                  /NOALIAS -*                 /IGNORE=LABEL_PROCESSING -                 'disk': -i'                 tape_device:'saveset' -h!                 'backup_rewind' -tM                 /tape_expiration="''f$cvtime("today+14-","absolute","date")'"d  E We've been doing backups the same way for years. Never a hiccup until D this started happening about a month ago, and I know of nothing that has been changed...-   G.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:44:17 +050084 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>) Subject: Re[2]: X.25 programming question 5 Message-ID: <19930732642.20020920164417@ncc.volga.ru>3  < On 19.09.2002 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   > Valentin Likoum wrote:@ >> guess I should read and write data on the same channel thoughG >> documentation doesn't say it explicitly). But what happens when next 2 >> incoming request will arrive? How to handle it?  J > haven't done this, but this should be very very similar to DECNET serverN > programming. The DECNET 4 manual has a good example of how to program this.   G >> true for X.29 connections but not true for X.25 connections. So X.25oG >> API is not supposed to handle multiple incoming connections or what?o- >> Compaq X.25 for OpenVMS Alpha Systems v1.4   O >>From a structural point of view, an inbound X.29 or X.25 connection should bevO > the same. You are getting some data streams. The only difference is that with I > an X.29 connection, you are able to send additional control commands tob > configure the remote PAD.   O > *IF* all data arrives on the same VMS channel, perhaps each packet has a byteTN > that indicates which logical channel the data belonsg to ? (i.e. if you haveN > 10 simultaneous connections, instead of having 10 vms channels, you'd have aM > single one, but each QIO-read will include which of the 10 logical channelso= > the inbound data belongs to ?) Just speculation on my part.d  E   Finally I realized what was the case. Thank you for pointing out to/F DECnet manuals. Obviously I live too long in TCP land and forgot about+ DECnet nontransparent programming paradigm.d0   Thanks to all who responded here or privately.   -- h
 Best regards,r#  Valentin                          r   valentin.likoum at ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:39:25 -0400(* From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com>0 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-11: bug in tape simulation8 Message-ID: <smcmouk9i7loj42oue4s4lm7j21r14etai@4ax.com>  C On 19 Sep 2002 21:05:19 GMT, koehler@bessta.gsfc.nasa.aspm.gov (Bobt Koehler) wrote:II >   The double directory listing is not a bug with the tape drive.  This a9 >   is a _known_ bug in VMS.  It's been around for years.. >wH >   If your default directory is a search list and you do a directory onG >   a tape drive, that directory will be repeated for each entry in theo >   search list.   >aL >   VMS engineering said this is deep in the file system but they might fix A >   it "some day."  Right now they have much better things to do.l > I >   The well known work around is to set default to something that is not 5 >   a search list before doing a directory on a tape.u  E Thanks, everyone, for your responses.  The issue is now closed.  With1D the fix to the TS11/TSV05 module, both tape drives respond the same,, and as would be expected with a search list.   /Bob   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 18:53:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-11: bug in tape simulation- Message-ID: <87wuph6iex.fsf@prep.synonet.com>T  " John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  F > BTW, if this is the case, it is probably a bug in RMS rather than inE > DIRECTORY.  It might be documented in some obscure place, making ite > a "feature."  @ Yep. a feature. Tapes have no directory, so *any* directory will2 match, all of them if you default is a searchlist.  $ Quick sanity test of the tape stuff,  8 SET DEF BAR:[FOO] ; does not matter if it does not exist  	 DIR TAPE:n  < That should give you 1 directory. Modulo you doing something to BAR first :)5     -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2002 06:55:43 GMT, From: Mikko Putkonen <miputkon@paju.oulu.fi>( Subject: Re: So help me understand herE.* Message-ID: <amegpf$l1j$1@ousrvr3.oulu.fi>   Hello, comp.os.vms.n  ( Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:M > If you only read the computer industry rags (those newspapers that everyonelN > has delivered to their desks) you'd swear that the only operating systems inM > the world were Windows and many flavors of UNIX including AIX, Solaris, and- > LINUX.  I > The truth of the matter is that there are many more out there includingaM > OpenVMS. In the case of OpenVMS, I am personally aware of installations at:$  / > 1. Canadian nuclear power generating stations"! <The rest of Neil's post snipped>t  B Hmm, little I know, but aren't (Open)VMS systems still relatively : common in almost *all sort* of heavier industry out there?  E For example, I have had a little change to work in a large and rather E modern steel factory here in Finland.  At that particular production iG line (the factory in general produces stainless steel around the clock, @ mostly coiled strip) they had a handful of specialized operator E workstations running HP-UX, for the workers to control the automationkH process in general.  Furthermore they used a few typical Wintel boxes inD order to access and update the databases in the plant-wide real-time production system.  C The computer that provided various, more or less vital mathematicaltG models for the process (annealing and pickling the steel) and acted as eI a, hmm..., primary "gateway" for the coil information traffic between theoG plant-wide prod. system and the line's own automation system (mostly by ; ABB) was an older Alphastation 255/233, and it ran OpenVMS.r  : The production line in question is about 5 years old now.   G Heh, certainly that was a pretty small OpenVMS system, but provides an 3E example of some sort anyway.  The plant-wide production system itselfi( was based on older Tandem CLX hardware.    -Mikko Putkonenu miputkon@paju.oulu.fiF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:00:34 -0400>' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>i( Subject: RE: So help me understand herE.T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D965D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Mikko -h  B >>> For example, I have had a little change to work in a large and/ rather modern steel factory here in Finland.<<<   C Note one of the references I provided in a previous posting in thisd thread. E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/nz_steel.pdfe9 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/e= "New Zealand Steel runs process control systems on hp OpenVMSB AlphaServer systems"  H ""We've still to find an environment as robust as HP OpenVMS, so we willA look closely at running HP OpenVMS on Itanium(r) when available."-   Slavica Marsic Principal Engineer! Database and Applications Manager. New Zealand Steel"   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesl Voice: 613-592-46609 Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----6 From: Mikko Putkonen [mailto:miputkon@paju.oulu.fi]=20  Sent: September 20, 2002 2:56 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come( Subject: Re: So help me understand herE.     Hello, comp.os.vms.r  ( Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:G > If you only read the computer industry rags (those newspapers that=20eE > everyone has delivered to their desks) you'd swear that the only=20oI > operating systems in the world were Windows and many flavors of UNIX=20 $ > including AIX, Solaris, and LINUX.  B > The truth of the matter is that there are many more out there=20H > including OpenVMS. In the case of OpenVMS, I am personally aware of=20 > installations at:2  / > 1. Canadian nuclear power generating stationss! <The rest of Neil's post snipped>0  D Hmm, little I know, but aren't (Open)VMS systems still relatively=20: common in almost *all sort* of heavier industry out there?  E For example, I have had a little change to work in a large and rathersG modern steel factory here in Finland.  At that particular production=20wG line (the factory in general produces stainless steel around the clock,bB mostly coiled strip) they had a handful of specialized operator=20E workstations running HP-UX, for the workers to control the automationeH process in general.  Furthermore they used a few typical Wintel boxes inD order to access and update the databases in the plant-wide real-time production system.  C The computer that provided various, more or less vital mathematical I models for the process (annealing and pickling the steel) and acted as=20hE a, hmm..., primary "gateway" for the coil information traffic betweengH the plant-wide prod. system and the line's own automation system (mostly by; ABB) was an older Alphastation 255/233, and it ran OpenVMS.   < The production line in question is about 5 years old now.=20  I Heh, certainly that was a pretty small OpenVMS system, but provides an=20cE example of some sort anyway.  The plant-wide production system itselft* was based on older Tandem CLX hardware.=20   -Mikko Putkonend miputkon@paju.oulu.fin   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 09:22:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: RE: So help me understand herE.3 Message-ID: <6SG6X4SZCMfw@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D965D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:	 > Mikko -p > C >>>> For example, I have had a little change to work in a large and 1 > rather modern steel factory here in Finland.<<<b > E > Note one of the references I provided in a previous posting in thism	 > thread. G > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/nz_steel.pdf-; > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/nz_steel/T? > "New Zealand Steel runs process control systems on hp OpenVMS  > AlphaServer systems" > J > ""We've still to find an environment as robust as HP OpenVMS, so we willC > look closely at running HP OpenVMS on Itanium(r) when available."3 >  > Slavica Marsic > Principal Engineer# > Database and Applications Managerr > New Zealand Steel"  D I once dealt with a multiplatform application that was being used onB VMS in a steel mill.  The application vendor (not VMS) had troubleE dealing with the notion that the system was only allowed to shut downrE once a _year_, because shutting down the computer meant shutting downa@ the steel mill and starting the mill up again took several days.  A With all their Unix experience, the application vendor was in thei? habit of telling people to reboot every 30 days no matter what.r  E For VMS, best practice is to reboot after every change to the startup 7 command procedures (to make sure the changes are good).-   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2002 00:32:26 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>, Subject: sys$Pipe and DCL$PATH documentation- Message-ID: <87u1kk62qt.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  2 WHere? I have searched the CDs, but found nothing.   tnx# --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:24:23 -0400d0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: units available; Message-ID: <000b01c260ca$90a3a820$cd96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>a  L Anyone interested in the following pieces of equipment please contact me offJ list.  Doing some house cleaning here and need to move a couple of things.4 They are located in West Michigan near Grand Rapids.   MV3100-30  with 32MB memoryN 		can throw in drive or 2h  0 Decservers - 200's and 300's with MMJ connectors 		90L & 90l+ 		Decserver 250 with LP portsd
 		VT 320's  I I really dont want to throw them away - I can remember how much this stufi cost new !! :)  0 please contact me at hvanderw at mansply dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 05:02:41 -0700+ From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre)m/ Subject: Re: validate email address with LDAP ? = Message-ID: <a39f53b1.0209200402.4b2f6bed@posting.google.com>d  p tonymcg27@yahoo.com.au (Tony McGrath) wrote in message news:<521ebd9f.0209191454.5ae910c4@posting.google.com>...q > pierre.bru@spotimage.fr (Bru, Pierre) wrote in message news:<1c0e37b1.0209180652.e6b40ad@posting.google.com>...o > > hi,e > > G > > I'm currently writing a DCL procedure which a some point ask for anwG > > email address. I would like to validate this address with out Win2KU* > > Exchange2K server, using for ex. LDAP. > > I > > is there any LDAP client available on VMS that I can use to do that ?e > >  > > TIA, > > Pierre.  >  > G'day Pierre,e> > We wanted to something similar, so we modified a copy of theH > SYS$EXAMPLES:LDAP_EXAMPLE.C program so that it returned the results ofE > a LDAP query to DCL via a Global Symbol, calling LIB$SET_SYMBOL. Don > you have a C compiler??t   Yes Sir!  & I should have seached  the examples :(? this LDAP_Exampls program is exactly what I want. thanks a lot.    Pierre.:  . > Cheers from Oz,  >   Tony > ---o > Tony McGrath > OpenVMS Support Group  > Toll Transport, IT Dept.& > Laverton North, VIC, Australia, 3006+ > tony_mcgrath (at) toll (dot) com (dot) auc   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:00:52 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 5 Subject: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) ; Message-ID: <UCHi9.4027$yB5.166527@twister.tampabay.rr.com>a  H If we ignore lessons of the past (Usually a very unwise move), and if weI focus on what is happening today, what is the prognosis for the future ofd VMS.  E Is your outlook for the future of VMS currently Negative,  Neutral or  PositiveE Has you outlook for the future of VMS changed in the past year?  How?i   Any one can add to these lists:    PRO VMSeD    Porting to Intel (this is good given that Alphas has been killed)#    Revival of VMS Technical journale$    Creation of VMS specific symposia
    DII COE    ???   Anti VMS    Recent historye    ????h       See you in St. Lous.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 11:28:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)r3 Message-ID: <Gf6sTFM+nwmY@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  a In article <UCHi9.4027$yB5.166527@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:   
 > Anti VMS   Chronic whiners in comp.os.vms.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:34:26 GMTe# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>e9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)f; Message-ID: <m6Ii9.4030$yB5.169005@twister.tampabay.rr.com>.  L While that may well be a very valid point,   it sort of dashes my hope for a meaningful discussion.  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:Gf6sTFM+nwmY@eisner.encompasserve.org...mG > In article <UCHi9.4027$yB5.166527@twister.tampabay.rr.com>, "John N."  <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> writes:  >  > > Anti VMS > ! > Chronic whiners in comp.os.vms.1 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 02:28:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?, Message-ID: <3D8AC021.50B8F6F4@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote:-9 > EDS' warning led the decline of IT service companies...   M Yes, that was yesterday's trading. But the stocks have been on a more of lesss constant decline for some time.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:38:36 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>w0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?? Message-ID: <g8Bi9.372537$_91.484128@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>i  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8AA243.4DD13F08@videotron.ca...H > IBM today closed at $64.80. It had stayed at the $100 level though the .COM crash.s >o& > HP lost just a dollar down to $12.85 >- > Sun down to $2.70- > = > Dell has been hovering between $25 and $29 in recent times.c >( >iL > HP's stock price is sheltered by the merger with nobody expecting any goodI > news from HP for some time. Sun is suffering from the ".com and telecom( crash"/ > syndrome. But Dell seems to be pretty stable.n  H More than stable, given that they don't appear to have a real enterprise	 strategy.c   >9J > But I am somewhat at a loss trying to explain IBM's downfall. Since much ofF > IBM's revenus come from services, wouldn't that division continue to generateL > revenus (albeit without much growth) since customers still require support forn > their mainframes etc etc ? >i > Why is IBM so beaten down ?,  @ Haven't a clue. Remember them at 43 when DEC was over 100, tho'.   > I > Note that Sun today announced it was buying a small storage company andtI > McNealy annoucned he would be buying lots of small companies since they  arei > now valued reasonably.  . Do not underestimate Sun or Mister McNealy....   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:35:16 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?@ Message-ID: <20020920123516.98035.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  . Companies owned by banks and mercenaries ! ! !     Short ansewr ! ! !   Regardsl   FC b2 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:2 > IBM today closed at $64.80. It had stayed at the# > $100 level though the .COM crash.B > & > HP lost just a dollar down to $12.85 >  > Sun down to $2.70t > 6 > Dell has been hovering between $25 and $29 in recent	 > times. t >  > 2 > HP's stock price is sheltered by the merger with > nobody expecting any gooda3 > news from HP for some time. Sun is suffering fromo > the ".com and telecom crash"/ > syndrome. But Dell seems to be pretty stable.d > 5 > But I am somewhat at a loss trying to explain IBM'so > downfall. Since much of 1 > IBM's revenus come from services, wouldn't that  > division continue to generateo6 > revenus (albeit without much growth) since customers > still require support fors > their mainframes etc etc ? >  > Why is IBM so beaten down ?O > 5 > Note that Sun today announced it was buying a small, > storage company and'4 > McNealy annoucned he would be buying lots of small > companies since they are > now valued reasonably.     =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?) New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!c http://sbc.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:32:26 +0100O' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?0 Message-ID: <amf84k$pbc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:i0 > JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote:G > : IBM today closed at $64.80. It had stayed at the $100 level though   > : the .COM crash.t > : ( > : HP lost just a dollar down to $12.85 > :  > : Sun down to $2.70d > : @ > : Dell has been hovering between $25 and $29 in recent times.  > : N > : HP's stock price is sheltered by the merger with nobody expecting any goodL > : news from HP for some time. Sun is suffering from the ".com and telecom 8 > : crash" syndrome. But Dell seems to be pretty stable. > : O > : But I am somewhat at a loss trying to explain IBM's downfall. Since much ofcI > : IBM's revenus come from services, wouldn't that division continue to .P > : generate revenus (albeit without much growth) since customers still require * > : support for their mainframes etc etc ? > :  > : Why is IBM so beaten down ?a > : K > : Note that Sun today announced it was buying a small storage company anduO > : McNealy annoucned he would be buying lots of small companies since they are  > : now valued reasonably. > :  > 9 > EDS' warning led the decline of IT service companies...n > = >    http://money.cnn.com/2002/09/19/technology/eds/index.htmr: >    EDS warning whacks IT services sector - Sep. 19, 2002 >  >   "EDS woes dim tech servicesnE >    Technology services companies shares are pressured after leadinga' >    player sees substantial shortfall.m >   2 You are also seing this with HP. Their most recent4 results show the margins in services being squeezed.  5 Expect this to accelerate as the big services playerse fight for market share.    Regardsl Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 07:23:11 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)# Subject: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS?o= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0209200623.3677ed1d@posting.google.com>   E Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS when PAGEFILE.SYS can be used for swapping?GB What is the advantage? If the advantage is better performance, how  does it give better performance?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmano spamsink2001 at yahoo dot coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:25:47 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS?n) Message-ID: <3D8B3DFB.77885C29@127.0.0.1>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > G > Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS when PAGEFILE.SYS can be used for swapping?oD > What is the advantage? If the advantage is better performance, how" > does it give better performance?   Briefly (cos I wanna go home!)  E You are right in the absence of a swapfile, the pagefile is used, but0G the two files are used in different ways, pagefile can have a 'trickle'wE type of data flow, a swapfile is generally concerned with much biggeroB data transfers, whole working sets, and IIRC when a swap operationH occurs to a file, SWAPPER has to find and link enough free space for theG whole transfer so it reduces the efficiency, as you expect the pagefileeC to be internally fragmented, and the swapfile to be less so, due toe larger chunks.  F There is probably a more complete and arguably a more accurate answer.  B I have seen a pagefile and no swapfile cause performance issues on memory limited systems.s -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:19:14 +0100w% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>M' Subject: Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS?a8 Message-ID: <1pemou80mdm4ughs3rcui10pfp8c6jk93p@4ax.com>  > On 20 Sep 2002 07:23:11 -0700, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:m  F >Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS when PAGEFILE.SYS can be used for swapping?C >What is the advantage? If the advantage is better performance, hows! >does it give better performance?   C Your swapfile sits on a drum and your pagefile sits on a disk. Oopsl this isn't the 70s any more :-)a  E I doubt that it really exists these days for anything much other thanMA historical compatibility but there might be special cases where aaE rapid swap of the entire process to a file on some modern device withaD lightning fast linear access speed is still advantageous compared to@ just using a possibly badly fragmented pagefile on any old disk.   Anyone any figures?.   >Disclaimer: JMHOm >Alan E. Feldman >spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:17:54 -0400uG From: "Lorraine Profeta" <profetal@greaterbaynet.com@greaterbaynet.com>e' Subject: Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS? , Message-ID: <amfhkf$f2l$1@news.chatlink.com>   Alan, J         You swap a process out of (or into) memory, but you page part of aL process.  I.e., when you page, the least used part of a process is taken outC of physical memory and put into virtual memory (PAGEFILE.SYS).  The H operating system will take an incative process out of memory and swap itH into SWAPFILE.SYS.  You want to swap as little as possible as it eats upJ resources.  You can adjust the maximum amount of swap space available to aL job with the WSquo parameter; can't exceed WSMAX.  If you are still swappingK too much then reduce the value of MAXACCTJOBS; the effects can be dramatic.nJ If you are a developer make sure your programs have the smallest footprintK possible; this will reduce paging (not near as bad as swapping but it still.J slows down your process by a bit). For an individual account you can limitF how much one of it's processes can page with the /pagfilcnt parameter;I modify it with AUTHORIZE (modify system paramters in modparams.dat, usingeF AUTOGEN to set the value in the system and rebooting for static system parameters).   Dave  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagee7 news:b096a4ee.0209200623.3677ed1d@posting.google.com...tG > Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS when PAGEFILE.SYS can be used for swapping?aD > What is the advantage? If the advantage is better performance, how" > does it give better performance? >h > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman  > spamsink2001 at yahoo dot comw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:15:15 -0400e5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>i' Subject: RE: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS?eO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B8DB@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   L there;s probably some speed to be gained in the simplicity of swapping out aI process that hasnt done anything in hours/days/whatever rather than small H pieces of that process (interleaving it with other process's pages).  If= there isnt any more, there was once when memories were small.    -----Original Message------ From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] s! Sent: September 20, 2002 11:19 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt' Subject: Re: Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS?,    > On 20 Sep 2002 07:23:11 -0700, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:   G >Why is there SWAPFILE.SYS when PAGEFILE.SYS can be used for swapping? eI >What is the advantage? If the advantage is better performance, how does o >it give better performance?  H Your swapfile sits on a drum and your pagefile sits on a disk. Oops this isn't the 70s any more :-)  E I doubt that it really exists these days for anything much other thandL historical compatibility but there might be special cases where a rapid swapI of the entire process to a file on some modern device with lightning fastrK linear access speed is still advantageous compared to just using a possiblys* badly fragmented pagefile on any old disk.   Anyone any figures?e   >Disclaimer: JMHOe >Alan E. Feldman >spamsink2001 at yahoo dot com   -- Alan    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andeJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication issJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theH original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptK orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not berL responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrainL from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed thatH we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toJ satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail: correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 02:34:25 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)' Subject: Re: Wildcard for Delete /entrya< Message-ID: <d0141774.0209200134.f88b07f@posting.google.com>  F Try this... http://richj.home.mindspring.com/richware/clear_queue.html    l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3D8A081E.CE471B12@blueyonder.co.uk>... > Jeff Barnes wrote: > > P > > How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using the deleteD > > /entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? > > ) > > Forgive the rookie VMS type question.S > > 
 > > Thanks >  > J > You need to write a .COM that uses f$getqui to retrieve the entry numberM > for each entry in the queue in a loop then issues a $delete/entry= for eacht > entry found. > < > There are some examples in the documentation for f$getqui. > I > Maybe there is some freeware version of this somewhere already written.h > 	 > regards    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:14:26 +0200t. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@aster.si>' Subject: Re: Wildcard for Delete /entrye0 Message-ID: <fCBi9.1981$EM5.67539@news.siol.net>  7 "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> wrote in messagea& news:cqni9.2770$i%.717724@localhost...G > How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using theo deleteB > /entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? >s >r  C You can use following procedure to quickly delete entries in queue. F If this entries have something common in job_name, you can selectivelyJ delete those entries. If you want to delete all entries yust ommit pateren test.r   best, Gorazd   $t $ verify := 'f$verify("n")1 $ show que/all <queue_name>/output=queue_list.tmp   $ open/read $que$ queue_list.tmp $loop:( $       read/end=exit/err=exit $que$ rec) $       rec = f$edit(rec,"TRIM,COMPRESS")n# $       ent_num = f$elem(0," ",rec)e# $       ent_nam = f$elem(1," ",rec)hF $       if f$ext(0,6,ent_nam).eqs."DATBCK" then delete/entry='ent_num' $       ent_num = "" $       end_nam = "" $       goto loop  $exit: $       close $que$e $       delete queue_list.tmp; $       exit   --4 ----------------------------------------------------
 Gorazd Kikelju OpenVMS system support Aster d.o.o. e-mail: gorazd.kikelj@aster.si www:  www.aster.si   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:50:03 -0230-, From: "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>' Subject: Re: Wildcard for Delete /entryd, Message-ID: <OhFi9.2812$i%.732187@localhost>   Thanks to all who responded.    7 "Jeff Barnes" <barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> wrote in messageT& news:cqni9.2770$i%.717724@localhost...G > How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using the  deleteB > /entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? >c' > Forgive the rookie VMS type question.i >a > Thanks >d >    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 08:02:55 -0700% From: mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman)e' Subject: Re: Wildcard for Delete /entrye= Message-ID: <1d08b916.0209200702.5d6c8412@posting.google.com>i   "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message news:<BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEAD9@rlghncst964.usps.gov>... > No.u > , > Entry numbers are system or cluster-wide,  >   > that is, if you SHOW/ENTRY=15 / > it shows you the entry no matter where it is  & > (assuming you have rights to see it) > 4 > so DELETE/ENTRY=* could conceivably zap everything > if you had sufficient privs. >  > Not good.a > E > Some create bogus queues and ASSIGN/MERGE target-queue source-queuet
 > to them. > G > (Before you waste time trying to create a queue pointing to the null o@ > device: you have to have a real port of some sort to do this.) > 6 > Others write DCL using the f$getqui lexical function? > and nested loops to obtain each entry number in a given queue  > and delete it. >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----5 > From: "Jeff Barnes" [mailto:barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca]p, > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:00 PM > To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" % > Subject: Wildcard for Delete /entryd >  > N > How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using the deleteB > /entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? > ' > Forgive the rookie VMS type question.N >  > Thanks   TRY THIS PROCEDURE   $ PAUSE_PROMPT == "Y"  $ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO FATAL $ ON ERROR THEN GOTO FATAL) $ SAVE_DEFAULT = F$ENVIRONMENT("DEFAULT")'@ $ WS " This code will attempt to DELETE ALL entries on a printer queue."s $ WANTED_QUEUE = "XXXXXXXXXX"u" $ INQUIRE "Printer queue name" ANS3 $ IF "''ANS'" .NES. "" THEN WANTED_QUEUE = "''ANS'"cC $ INQUIRE "Deleta ALL entries on printer queue ''WANTED_QUEUE'" ANSe* $ IF "''ANS'" .NES. "YES" THEN GOTO FINISH $!1 $!    Loop through all printer or terminal queuesp $!! $ CANCEL_OPERATION = F$GETQUI("")0 $LOOP_1: $!E $!    Establish a queue context consisting of any printer or terminalt queues.r $![ $ QUEUE_NAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","QUEUE_NAME","''WANTED_QUEUE'","WILDCARD,SYMBIONT")h2 $ IF "''QUEUE_NAME'" .EQS. "" THEN GOTO LOOP_1_END $! $!4 $ WS "    ... checking for entries on ''QUEUE_NAME'" $LOOP_2: $!) $!    Check all the entries on the queue.e? $!    Note that you have to call display_queue to establish theu: $!    context before you can use the DISPLAY_JOB function. $!L $ ENTRY_NUMBER = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","ENTRY_NUMBER",,"WILDCARD,ALL_JOBS")4 $ IF "''ENTRY_NUMBER'" .EQS. "" THEN GOTO LOOP_2_ENDM $ SUBMISSION_TIME=F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","SUBMISSION_TIME",,"FREEZE_CONTEXT")f- $ DISPLAY " ... Delete entry ''ENTRY_NUMBER'"d $ DELETE/ENTRY='ENTRY_NUMBER'n
 $ GOTO LOOP_2e
 $ GOTO LOOP_1i $LOOP_1_END:	 $ FINISH:  $    EXIT 1c $ FATAL: $    EXIT %X10000004   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:23:48 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>' Subject: Re: Wildcard for Delete /entrys8 Message-ID: <lmimouom3suv4794v35ht0lg02grangbit@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:33:35 GMT, rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:  2 >On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:30:15 -0230, "Jeff Barnes"  ><barnesjw@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> wrote: >oN >>How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using the deleteB >>/entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? >>' >>Forgive the rookie VMS type question.  >> >g? >Sometimes it's quicker to stop, delete and recreate the queue.tB >Especially if someone/thing has inadvertently created hundreds of	 >entries.  >>Thanks >> >>  F Well, my favorite method is to do the following (assume original queue is my$batch   @ $ init/que/batch tempx	!note, this will require other qualifiers( $			! depending on batch or print queues< $ assign/merge  tempx my$batch	!moves all jobs from my$batch $ delete/queue tempx   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:11:52 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>v' Subject: RE: Wildcard for Delete /entry K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEAE2@rlghncst964.usps.gov>i   Egad.    Quick? extremely.  Dirty? extremely.t
 Risky? maybe.   + Jeff, If you have to do this a lot, here's l( an example of the ASSIGN/MERGE solution:  "     !! I've got SYS$PRINT stopped-    $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/ALL SYS$PRINTo( Generic printer queue SYS$PRINT, stopped)   <ANSI generic queue for Printserver 32>d/   /GENERIC=(<* REDACTED *>_CPS) /OWNER=[SYSTEM]s /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)    /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) $ E     !! I'm going to create a queue pointing to the second serial portTE     !! on this system- you can use other devices besides serial ones.x  L     !! Make sure that you use a device that's always unused or someone will C     !! come looking for you when they find out that your queue has >E     !! permanently allocated their port :^) And they won't be amused.6  .' $ INIT/QUEUE/ON=TTB0:/START BOGUS_QUEUEH  g     !! Here's the queuei  h! $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/ALL BOGUS_QUEUEgH Terminal queue BOGUS_QUEUE, idle, on <* REDACTED *>::TTB0:, mounted form DEFAULT I   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]a   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)  $      !! Create a file to print.    $ CREATE SAMPLE_PRINTFILE.TXTt PRINT THIS LINEA PRINT THIS LINEt PRINT THIS LINEs *EXIT* $      !! Make some print jobsi  y, $ PRINT/QUEUE=SYS$PRINT SAMPLE_PRINTFILE.TXT8 Job SAMPLE_PRINTFILE (queue SYS$PRINT, entry 45) pending $ , $ PRINT/QUEUE=SYS$PRINT SAMPLE_PRINTFILE.TXT8 Job SAMPLE_PRINTFILE (queue SYS$PRINT, entry 46) pending $ , $ PRINT/QUEUE=SYS$PRINT SAMPLE_PRINTFILE.TXT8 Job SAMPLE_PRINTFILE (queue SYS$PRINT, entry 47) pending $ +     !! We're about to play three job monte.i     !! The jobs are here,-  - $ SHOW QUEUE/ALL SYS$PRINT( Generic printer queue SYS$PRINT, stopped)   <ANSI generic queue for Printserver 32>   4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------      45  SAMPLE_PRINTFILEu5                          SYSTEM            1  Pending       46  SAMPLE_PRINTFILEe         47  SAMPLE_PRINTFILE 5                          SYSTEM            1  Pendingn       !! And they're not here.  d! $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/ALL BOGUS_QUEUE H Terminal queue BOGUS_QUEUE, idle, on <* REDACTED *>::TTB0:, mounted form DEFAULTMI   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]    /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)i  sL     !! We'll stop the queue to show that the jobs really go there and don't      !! go up my sleeve.r  I     !! This is also a good idea if you want a second chance at retrieving 8     !! a job that you didn't want to delete if it was a .     !! delete-file-after-printing sort of job.    $ STOP/RESET/QUEUE BOGUS_QUEUE  ($     !! See?  Nothing up my sleeve.    G     !! (I'd say queue, but I understand that could be misinterpreted ase	 somethinge(     !!  obscene by the French-speakers.)         ! $ SHOW QUEUE/FULL/ALL BOGUS_QUEUE K Terminal queue BOGUS_QUEUE, stopped, on <* REDACTED *>::TTB0:, mounted formc DEFAULTp?   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM].   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)r  s     !! And here we go.  F     !! Note that it's ASSIGN/MERGE TARGET SOURCE and not the other way round.>     !! (this is very old syntax, do a searhc for explanation.)  e* RAN967$ ASSIGN/MERGE BOGUS_QUEUE SYS$PRINT  e     !! The jobs have moved.t  b $ SHOW QUEUE/ALL BOGUS_QUEUEK Terminal queue BOGUS_QUEUE, stopped, on <* REDACTED *>::TTB0:, mounted formt DEFAULTo  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------      45  SAMPLE_PRINTFILEt5                          SYSTEM            1  Pendinga      46  SAMPLE_PRINTFILEi5                          SYSTEM            1  Pending       47  SAMPLE_PRINTFILE:5                          SYSTEM            1  Pending   j     !!  Start the queue. a  h $ START/QUEUE BOGUS_QUEUEA  1     !!  And they're gone.   e $ SHOW QUEUE/ALL BOGUS_QUEUEH Terminal queue BOGUS_QUEUE, idle, on <* REDACTED *>::TTB0:, mounted form DEFAULTh $m   Regards,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----' From: "Dirk Munk" [mailto:munk@home.nl]u) Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:01 PMe To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" ' Subject: RE: Wildcard for Delete /entrye     Jeff Barnes wrote:G > How do I delete all the pending jobs for a particular queue using theh deleteB > /entry= command?  Is there a /entry= <wildcard> for OpenVMS 6.2? >u' > Forgive the rookie VMS type question.y >  > Thanks >e >S   Very quick and dirty:a   $       set noon $       entry=1n $loop:% $       del /entry='entry' <quename>:  $       entry=entry + 1e) $       if entry .ne. 9999 then goto loop-
 $     exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:36:04 +02009- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>i7 Subject: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?a' Message-ID: <3D8ACFE4.35BC85C0@Free.fr>2  H If it is/was the case, the PGP system may be unlocked via a trap door byC "authorized" people. That would be very useful to track terrorists.:  
 Just an idea.e   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:36:46 +0200d1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de>p; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA? ( Message-ID: <amf18e.2ts.1@jo.dyndns.org>   Didier Morandi wrote:e  J > If it is/was the case, the PGP system may be unlocked via a trap door byE > "authorized" people. That would be very useful to track terrorists.   @ Didn't You realize that many (and most serious) people still useD V2.6.1i? This is the last version without backdoors (as rumors say).  ; GnuPG will be the successor (whenever it will be bug free).r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:20:03 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?r8 Message-ID: <49tlouop0ph5gfrij9onhntukhd2suhkoh@4ax.com>  2 On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:36:04 +0200, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote:g  I >If it is/was the case, the PGP system may be unlocked via a trap door byhD >"authorized" people. That would be very useful to track terrorists.  F Phil Zimmerman resigned from PGP over the very issue of a trap-door inD future versions. He declared publicly that there was no back door in0 any PGP product up to and including version XXX.  A Again all as I recall. Unless this was an amazing double bluff itm4 seems very unlikely that Zimmerman works for the CIA   >Just an idea. >m >D.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:51:38 +0200 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>n; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?c+ Message-ID: <3D8B0BCA.8CCD024A@mediasec.de>e  J > If it is/was the case, the PGP system may be unlocked via a trap door byE > "authorized" people. That would be very useful to track terrorists.   E Any terrorist worth his salt will make sure that the stuff he's usinglC doesn't have such trapdoors. And basically all you have to check isX" the protection of the private key.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:02:20 +0100t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?n( Message-ID: <3D8B003C.BE92D0C@127.0.0.1>   Franz-Josef Fornefeld wrote: >  > Didier Morandi wrote:e > L > > If it is/was the case, the PGP system may be unlocked via a trap door byG > > "authorized" people. That would be very useful to track terrorists.v  G My reply here to that specific point is that powerful encryption is notsD the only way to hide  messages. From a monitoring point of view theyH draw attraction to themselves. I've heard (but can't corroborate or giveF more information) that some activities escaped monitoring because they1 didn't use expected means of message concealment.A  iB > Didn't You realize that many (and most serious) people still useF > V2.6.1i? This is the last version without backdoors (as rumors say). > = > GnuPG will be the successor (whenever it will be bug free).t  H We're sort of off topic, however of interest because OpenVMS should have/ representation as a platform for said software.   F Where does 2.6.3i fit into the 'backdoor' theory? I'm interested in itH because it has 2048 bit support and is probably the latest available for OpenVMS.  F 2.6.2 is the 1024 bit capable OpenVMS compilable version, should 2.6.1 be considered?  H My (perhaps limited) understanding is that 2.6.2 was the last to use the infamous RSA algorithms.  1 Is anyone working for OpenVMS interests in GnuPG?l   -- o? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:32:36 +0200 1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de> ; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA? ( Message-ID: <amfbi5.318.1@jo.dyndns.org>   Nic Clews wrote:   > Franz-Josef Fornefeld wrote: >,C >> Didn't You realize that many (and most serious) people still use G >> V2.6.1i? This is the last version without backdoors (as rumors say).- >>> >> GnuPG will be the successor (whenever it will be bug free). >" > We're sort of off topic,  - Sure. comp.security.pgp.* would be better ...$  1 > however of interest because OpenVMS should havee1 > representation as a platform for said software.c >eH > Where does 2.6.3i fit into the 'backdoor' theory? I'm interested in itJ > because it has 2048 bit support and is probably the latest available for
 > OpenVMS. >NH > 2.6.2 is the 1024 bit capable OpenVMS compilable version, should 2.6.1 > be considered?  G Well, maybe I'm wrong with this version and V2.6.3i would be the betteroG one. I took this from brain and may have missed one or two releases ;-)e  * > My (perhaps limited) understanding [...]  0 Yes, that's my problem too. But I found the FAQ:A http://www.uk.pgp.net/pgpnet/pgp-faq/. Maybe this is what you arec interested in.  3 > Is anyone working for OpenVMS interests in GnuPG?0  G I found no reference on VMS on http://www.gnupg.org/. So maybe there is  nobody.m   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:56:06 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>9; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?'; Message-ID: <01KMQ9G8SQWK9QW0O4@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  I > My reply here to that specific point is that powerful encryption is notUF > the only way to hide  messages. From a monitoring point of view theyJ > draw attraction to themselves. I've heard (but can't corroborate or giveH > more information) that some activities escaped monitoring because they3 > didn't use expected means of message concealment.r  G What about taking a picture---of Pamela Anderson, say (something which lI won't looks suspicious on a web site run by a terrorist)---and replacing !G the least significant bits in each pixel with The Message?  Unless you eF regularly monitor all pictures on the web and extract the LSB of each H pixel (of course, this message could be further encrypted), there is no C way you could find this---and it doesn't even attract attention to (H itself by looking suspicious (especially if it is a picture which isn't $ otherwise available for comparison).   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2002 14:46:48 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>a; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?e5 Message-ID: <20020920144648.1855.qmail@nym.alias.net>t  H On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:J >> My reply here to that specific point is that powerful encryption is notG >> the only way to hide  messages. From a monitoring point of view theyeK >> draw attraction to themselves. I've heard (but can't corroborate or giveaI >> more information) that some activities escaped monitoring because theye4 >> didn't use expected means of message concealment. > H >What about taking a picture---of Pamela Anderson, say (something which J >won't looks suspicious on a web site run by a terrorist)---and replacing H >the least significant bits in each pixel with The Message?  Unless you G >regularly monitor all pictures on the web and extract the LSB of each iI >pixel (of course, this message could be further encrypted), there is no rD >way you could find this---and it doesn't even attract attention to I >itself by looking suspicious (especially if it is a picture which isn't .% >otherwise available for comparison).S  F What you describe is really basic steganography. Highly susceptible toH statistical analysis. There are some interesting sites about the subjectH out there, including one by the University of Michigan where they try to% find stego images on ebay and Usenet.n  ) http://www.citi.umich.edu/u/provos/stego/r     Doc. -- n6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neth   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:14:36 +01002( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?i) Message-ID: <3D8B3B5C.C51FBD8B@127.0.0.1>.   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > H > What about taking a picture---of Pamela Anderson, say (something whichJ > won't looks suspicious on a web site run by a terrorist)---and replacingH > the least significant bits in each pixel with The Message?  Unless youG > regularly monitor all pictures on the web and extract the LSB of eachrI > pixel (of course, this message could be further encrypted), there is nosD > way you could find this---and it doesn't even attract attention toI > itself by looking suspicious (especially if it is a picture which isn't8& > otherwise available for comparison).  F This is a known technique. Not necessarily Ms. PA, however there is anD OpenVMS version of this sort of software available see Mandelsteg at' http://www.yrl.co.uk/~phil/pds/pds.htmli -- e? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.520 ************************/ > syndrome. But Dell seems to be pretty stable.n  H More than stable, given that they don't appear to have a real enterprise	 strategy.c   >9J > But I am somewhat at a loss trying to explain IBM's downfall. Since much ofF > IBM's revenus come from                                      	    
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