1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 22 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 524       Contents: ??== Java books for newcomers ! Re: ??== Java books for newcomers ! Re: ??== Java books for newcomers 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium 1 Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium  Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters RE: Disaster-Tolerant clusters Re: Fortran and UnixP Re: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for         IAF)P RE: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for         IAF)H Re: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for IAF)A Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC A Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC A Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC A Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC   login to nt domain using sys$acm Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion+ Problem using Perl library functions on VMS . Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL2 Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL2 Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL2 Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL2 Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL2 Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL* Unexpected behaviour of DCL/ CLI$PRESENT()# VAX/VMS Advanced Programmer manuals 0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) Re: VMS, C++ and flush, RE: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?, Re: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?, Re: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:08:43 +0200 3 From: "Aus, Hans Magnus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> & Subject: ??== Java books for newcomersB Message-ID: <aus-0EA6F1.11084322092002@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  F Is "Beginning Java 2 SDK 1.4 Edition" by Ivor Horton, a good place to  start learning Java?  I I'd appreciate book suggestions for an absolute newcomer to Java. I plan  - to use Java both Open VMS 7.3-1 and Mac OS X.    --  4 Hans Magnus Aus, Wuerzburg, aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:59:26 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: ??== Java books for newcomers5 Message-ID: <OFmj9.244714$1S3.5951732@news.chello.at>   ` In article <1032709086.678413@spynews4>, "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> writes:K >I have the book, and it looks alright, although overwhelmingly thick (1156 L >pages!). And you really should have some previous programming experience, IE >think. And beware it treats Java 1.4 which, as far as I know, is not K >available on VMS yet. Although that wouldn't matter for the great majority  >of examples given.   1 JAVA140 is already available for OpenVMS in beta. ( See http://www.compaq.com/java/download/   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:37:38 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>* Subject: Re: ??== Java books for newcomers+ Message-ID: <3D8F5162.4090000@mail.tele.dk>    Aus, Hans Magnus wrote:   H > Is "Beginning Java 2 SDK 1.4 Edition" by Ivor Horton, a good place to  > start learning Java? > K > I'd appreciate book suggestions for an absolute newcomer to Java. I plan  / > to use Java both Open VMS 7.3-1 and Mac OS X.     8 Assuming that you have have large programming experience6 but no Java experience and needs to do a Java project, then I would say: -    - learn Java language from *any* Java book (    - start doing some small stuff coding7    - use the downloadable JDK API doc and Java language       for reference6    - buy some *advanced* books about the parts of Java=      you will be needing (Swing applications, EJB's, applets, 4      servelts, JSP's, RMI client/server or whatever)   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:43:24 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS Symposium' Message-ID: <3D8DEAC5.53DB0E39@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > [snip]M > You could probably strap a couple more to the trunk-mounted ski rack. A few 2 > bungee cords or some duct tape as seat belts....  ( I prefer motorcycle straps (elastics)...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:55:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: Announcing the first annual OpenVMS SymposiumG Message-ID: <munj9.19561$q41.1551@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D8D505C.CB2587E9@videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote: + > > > I drive a Z3.  So only one at a time.  > > K > > You could probably strap a couple more to the trunk-mounted ski rack. A  few 4 > > bungee cords or some duct tape as seat belts.... > H > I have a feeling that if I were the lucky one, they would conveniently forgetL > to unstrap me once they got to the restaurant/pub and leave me strapped to the  > ski rack... :-(     4 I'm sure somebody would bring a beer out to you. :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 10:24:58 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters ) Message-ID: <ovR9kWK13miK@elias.decus.ch>   a In article <$NvAEaB7QmJE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: b > In article <amfsjm$5jpde$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:/ >> In article <3D8B6385.582BC33F@videotron.ca>, 3 >> 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >>> Phillip Helbig wrote: L >>>> No, A in building 1, B in building 2 AND C (QUORUM MACHINE) IN BUILDING	 >>>> 3!!!  >>> H >>> The problem with this is that many companies may not have building 3P >>> available. Yes, if you're talking about the remaining VMS customer base madeM >>> up of large corporations with sopare wildfire equipment, the 3rd building  >>> isn't a problem. >>> Q >>> But if VMS is ever to return to the bigger markets of mid and small business, Z >>> then perhaps a solution not requiring the 3rd building might make VMS very attractive. >>  G >> Why couldn't "building 3" be the basement of the IT Managers house?? D >> Wasn't it stated that this 3rd machine needed for Quorum could be@ >> small and wouldn't actually do any of the work??  An XP1000?? >>   > K About 5 years ago, CSC told me a humble VAX 2000 would be enough to provide F quorum for a couple of then big Alphas, which were about a mile apart.    > 	Yes.  > D > 	How do you break a tie, how do you prevent a partitioned cluster, > 	etc.  >  > 	It works and works well.  > 	 > 				Rob  >  --   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 05:11:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters + Message-ID: <3D8D8939.D64C3EB@videotron.ca>    Paul Sture wrote: M > About 5 years ago, CSC told me a humble VAX 2000 would be enough to provide H > quorum for a couple of then big Alphas, which were about a mile apart.  G Considering that HP/Compaq have said absolutely nothing about continued N support of VMS on VAX since Sept 7 2001, I would never recommend to someone toM use a VAX in a mission critical environment without the important caveat that I it should be seen as a short term solution since compatibility with newer U version of VMS on alpha or that IA64 if it ever gets commercialised is not garanteed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:30:06 +0200 ) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters * Message-ID: <amk2iv$o6q$1@news1.xs4all.nl>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Paul Sture wrote:  > M >>About 5 years ago, CSC told me a humble VAX 2000 would be enough to provide H >>quorum for a couple of then big Alphas, which were about a mile apart. >  > I > Considering that HP/Compaq have said absolutely nothing about continued P > support of VMS on VAX since Sept 7 2001, I would never recommend to someone toO > use a VAX in a mission critical environment without the important caveat that K > it should be seen as a short term solution since compatibility with newer W > version of VMS on alpha or that IA64 if it ever gets commercialised is not garanteed.   F True. But a company that has the budget to set up a disaster tolerant G cluster can afford an extra DS10L with minimal memory and a small disk.   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 14:29:03 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters ) Message-ID: <G$c$BYs4PEgT@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3D8D8939.D64C3EB@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > Paul Sture wrote: N >> About 5 years ago, CSC told me a humble VAX 2000 would be enough to provideI >> quorum for a couple of then big Alphas, which were about a mile apart.  > I > Considering that HP/Compaq have said absolutely nothing about continued P > support of VMS on VAX since Sept 7 2001, I would never recommend to someone toO > use a VAX in a mission critical environment without the important caveat that K > it should be seen as a short term solution since compatibility with newer W > version of VMS on alpha or that IA64 if it ever gets commercialised is not garanteed.   D I did say 5 years ago... The point is that the third system does not; need much horsepower if it is only there to provide quorum.   K Nowadays I'd recommend an Alpha, if for no other reason than keeping things % simple in terms of upgrades and ECOS.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:53:05 -0400 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> ' Subject: RE: Disaster-Tolerant clusters O Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D506B8DF@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   K there is, but it requires human intervention to decide if you really lost 1 L machine, or just the link, and allow the cluster to continue.  This is not aB limitaton of vms, but a result of preventing partitioned clusters.     -----Original Message-----5 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]    Sent: September 20, 2002 3:20 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: Re: Disaster-Tolerant clusters      "Main, Kerry" wrote:7 > The issue of 3 sites is not specifically a VMS thing.  > H > The issue is that if A or B suddenly don't agree on who is in charge, - > someone has to referee and make a decision.   J I don't have a foolproof solution. I was merely suggesting that with VMS'sK expertise in clustering, it would be very nice to find some method to allow H lower end clusters to functions with only 2 sites which would give VMS a3 vast advance/advantage over other cluster wannabes.   J Remember thatMicrosoft will have no problems marketing a disaster tolerantI wintel solution that needs only 2 sites. (even if it doesn't quite work).     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theH original message. Please note that for certain accounts we do not acceptK orders and/or instructions by e-mail, and for those accounts we will not be L responsible for carrying out such orders and/or instructions. Kindly refrainL from sending orders or instructions by e-mail unless you have confirmed thatH we accept such communications for your account. Please also note that toJ satisfy regulatory requirements we review the outgoing and incoming e-mail: correspondence of staff members serving certain functions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:30:28 -0400   From: "Dan" <bill@microsoft.com> Subject: Re: Fortran and Unix < Message-ID: <zfmj9.17243$7J2.366357@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>  = "Ron Shepard" <ron-shepard@NOSPAM.attbi.com> wrote in message ; news:ron-shepard-A0766C.11250221092002@netnews.attbi.com... > > In article <lY_i9.50711$P77.829099@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>,$ >  "Dan" <bill@microsoft.com> wrote: > J > > Do any other network functions work between the two?  telnet?  ftp?  I takeI > > it that the vax is not running VMS, no need for rsh there.  You might  wantI > > to see if the port numbers for the services actually match up between  the  > > two unix's.  > A > I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, but even if ssh isn't C > "needed", it is still the easiest way to accomplish the task.  If B > you want to avoid using passwords, you can edit the files in theA > $HOME/.ssh/ directory on the unix machine to allow logins (from C > known hosts) without a password.  In practice, it works just like D > rsh using .rhosts, but it allows authentication without clear-text > passwords. >  > $.02 -Ron Shepard   F Not needed in the sense that VMS has an entirely different utility forI handling remote commands from other VMS machines called BATCH.  Different I Unixes used different "remote shell/command"   rsh could be either remote L shell or restricted shell, depends on the Unix.  rcmd is used on some Unixes0 for remote command, same effect as remote shell.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:33:00 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: Re: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for         IAF) * Message-ID: <00A145E6.8FDD888C.4@decus.de>   "Larry Kilgallen" wrote:  < > In article <3D8CC96B.644EC4D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Michael Unger wrote: > D > >> The result is simply a plain white page, nothing else. CheckingA > >> www.oracle.com there is a tiny remark at the top of the page  saying7 > >> "This page requires a JavaScript-enabled browser."  > >>D > >> I suppose JavaScript isn't liked very much in the VMS communityD > >> regardless of the system (VMS, Winwoes or something else) which is > >> used to view that page. > > D > > I rather expected Larry K. to note that javascript is avoided by anyone > > who is security conscious. > C > I did not see the initial post, but since you know my feelings it  would 5 > probably be a waste of bandwidth for me to comment.  > E > I would like to say I think switching to the HP style web page from C > the Compaq style web page is a great step forward, as HP seems to @ > indicate in the upper left corner "This page makes some use of@ > JavaScript and here is a link to a list of what aspects of theC > page you are missing by having JavaScript disabled."  HP at least D > recognizes that their customer base includes people who care about > such things !   F I didn't miss any aspect of information or navigation possibilities atF the Compaq OpenVMS and AlphaServer web pages with a JavaScript-blockedF (and ActiveX-blocked, of course) browser, but I got a lot of responsesA like "JavaScript and ActiveX are forced by the Internet Community > these days. You have to enable it." from webmasters to which I> complained about a useless page if JavaScript and ActiveX were	 disabled.   A But then again: I don't need to buy from vendors which hide their . product information from me. There are others.   Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:16:06 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for         IAF) T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660A30@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Michael,  F >>> "JavaScript and ActiveX are forced by the Internet Community these days. You have to enable it."   E Nope - well, not ActiveX or Vbscripts anyway. I use Opera V6.05 on my G laptop not only because its fast, and focuses on web open standards but G also for the fact that it does not support Active-X or VB Scripting.=20   $ Here is a quote from their web site:  @ http://www.opera.com/support/supsearch/supsearch.cgi?index=3D415 "Platform: All platforms  G Opera does not support ActiveX, nor does it support VBScript. There are  three reasons for this:   H 1. Opera Software AS is committed to supporting open Internet standards,E recommended by the W3C, something neither ActiveX nor VBScript, being + license issued Microsoft technologies, are. H 2. The second reason is much more simple: There's just not enough marketG demand for these technologies to warrant the cost of implementing them. E 3. In addition, some reports raise the question of how secure ActiveX H is. It has been claimed that ActiveX has serious problems with security,@ and some even say that the problem is an almost complete lack of< security. The same concerns have been raised about VBScript.  F These are the reasons why neither ActiveX nor VBScript are on the list' of features to be implemented in Opera.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----. From: Michael Unger [mailto:unger@decus.de]=20! Sent: September 22, 2002 11:33 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H Subject: Re: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 =3D Oracle = RDB  for IAF)     "Larry Kilgallen" wrote:  < > In article <3D8CC96B.644EC4D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Michael Unger wrote: > G > >> The result is simply a plain white page, nothing else. Checking=20 A > >> www.oracle.com there is a tiny remark at the top of the page  saying7 > >> "This page requires a JavaScript-enabled browser."  > >>G > >> I suppose JavaScript isn't liked very much in the VMS community=20 D > >> regardless of the system (VMS, Winwoes or something else) which is > >> used to view that page. > > D > > I rather expected Larry K. to note that javascript is avoided by anyone > > who is security conscious. > C > I did not see the initial post, but since you know my feelings it  would 5 > probably be a waste of bandwidth for me to comment.  > H > I would like to say I think switching to the HP style web page from=20F > the Compaq style web page is a great step forward, as HP seems to=20C > indicate in the upper left corner "This page makes some use of=20 H > JavaScript and here is a link to a list of what aspects of the page=20A > you are missing by having JavaScript disabled."  HP at least=20 G > recognizes that their customer base includes people who care about=20  > such things !   F I didn't miss any aspect of information or navigation possibilities atF the Compaq OpenVMS and AlphaServer web pages with a JavaScript-blockedF (and ActiveX-blocked, of course) browser, but I got a lot of responsesG like "JavaScript and ActiveX are forced by the Internet Community these C days. You have to enable it." from webmasters to which I complained = about a useless page if JavaScript and ActiveX were disabled.   A But then again: I don't need to buy from vendors which hide their . product information from me. There are others.   Michael    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 09:34:07 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) Q Subject: Re: Kudos to HP on JavaScript (was: Oracle RDB 8.0 = Oracle RDB for IAF) ) Message-ID: <KsBtXIPd$Rrn@elias.decus.ch>   \ In article <3D8CE789.AD52513F@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >> I would like to say I think switching to the HP style web page from5 >> the Compaq style web page is a great step forward,  > / > Have you tried http://www.nasdaq.com lately ?  > K > I sent a rather nasty message to them.  (Try their page with Netscape 4.7  > on a mac...) > ' OmniWeb on a Mac looks pretty poor too.   K > And don't ever try to validate that front page with the w3c validator, it 4 > barfs right at the top and refuses to continue :-) >   & Oops. Couldn't resist. Truly terrible.   P > I do not know what sort of deal NASDAQ has with microsoft, but it gives NASDAQ: > a very bad image to anyone know knows anything about IT.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 08:43:58 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC) Message-ID: <miid368cnwck@elias.decus.ch>   i In article <3b3693bc.0209210808.b9e11fb@posting.google.com>, thinkbasic@netscape.net (Thinkbasic) writes:  > http://www.nasa.tv  E Which redirects to http://www.jacquard.be/ which gets my vote for the  most useless site of the month.   ? It doesn't display _any_ useful info, and the links don't work.    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 08:30:40 GMT $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUJ Subject: Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC8 Message-ID: <00A14560.20141B8C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <d7791aa1.0209211541.9e86659@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: e >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote in message news:<00A144AB.A567010B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... v >> In article <3D8AF738.1F43F473@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:I >> >At some place in the article, the cost-to-completion was estimated at Q >> >around $560M. That's at least 3000 person-years of effort, for some 3 million J >> >lines of code (why so much, anyway?). So a person on this project doesJ >> >1000 lines of code per year, or about 4 lines per average working day.3 >> >Man, what would I give to have a job like that.  >>  Q >> That might be four _debugged_ lines per working day, or four formally-verified = >> lines, etc.  And it might have included, oh, say, testing.  >>  R >> I personally wrote an episodic-television budgeting package that was consideredR >> the best in the industry at that time.  After I left Lorimar got a VAX 8600 andR >> converted all this working Fortran stuff to COBOL and DBMS, because it was what >> management understood.) >>   >>  
 >> -- Alan > D >maybe if they would have used DIBOL, there wouldn't be any rewritesF >necessary ... I started with and still work with code and subroutinesE >from '80's mcba dibol acct apps and everything ported thru the years = >from RSTS/E to VAX to ALPHA OpenVMS without any rewrites ...   5 (1) There was DIBOL on ModComp in 1980?   News to me.   N (2) Actually, to retain the functionality they had on ModComp, they would justE have needed to code some routines with the same names as the Infinity N "database" calls and make them interface to RMS, and recompile the whole thing> on VMS in Fortran.  (ModComp Fortran had very few extensions.)  L (3) But management didn't understand DIBOL; the COBOL rewrite wasn't becauseI anything was broken or because Fortran wasn't a perfectly fine DML or you K couldn't code business logic in it; it was because the VP of computing came B from Warner Bros data processing, and WB had used COBOL and an IBMN hierarchichal database, and indeed the main design guy on the corporate systemF was an experienced COBOL programmer whose specs were originally reallyK straightforward translations into COBOL code (until he realized that (a) he M could trust us to the right thing and just explain inputs and outputs and let I us have at it, or in some case delegate everything to us and (b) that it  M wasn't straightforward translation to FORTRAN).  But it just killed him that  K he didn't know Fortran and didn't want to learn, so he couldn't fix bugs or ; write programs - even though this was overall a good thing.   7 So in this situation DIBOL just wasn't going to happen.    -- ALan     1 Actually, it would have been pretty straightfowar    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 14:24:57 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC) Message-ID: <T+W3PjOARNcO@elias.decus.ch>   _ In article <00A14560.20141B8C@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:    <snip>   > 7 > (1) There was DIBOL on ModComp in 1980?   News to me.  > P > (2) Actually, to retain the functionality they had on ModComp, they would justG > have needed to code some routines with the same names as the Infinity P > "database" calls and make them interface to RMS, and recompile the whole thing@ > on VMS in Fortran.  (ModComp Fortran had very few extensions.) > N > (3) But management didn't understand DIBOL; the COBOL rewrite wasn't becauseK > anything was broken or because Fortran wasn't a perfectly fine DML or you M > couldn't code business logic in it; it was because the VP of computing came D > from Warner Bros data processing, and WB had used COBOL and an IBMP > hierarchichal database, and indeed the main design guy on the corporate systemH > was an experienced COBOL programmer whose specs were originally reallyM > straightforward translations into COBOL code (until he realized that (a) he O > could trust us to the right thing and just explain inputs and outputs and let K > us have at it, or in some case delegate everything to us and (b) that it  O > wasn't straightforward translation to FORTRAN).  But it just killed him that  M > he didn't know Fortran and didn't want to learn, so he couldn't fix bugs or = > write programs - even though this was overall a good thing.  >   M Ah yes, I had a similar boss in my mainframe days. He bought a COBOL compiler G and sent folks off on COBOL courses despite the fact we were taking our C apps from a sister company and they were written in PL/I. The crazy > thing was that he had already risen to a position where he was  unlikely to write code any more.  . (yes, he did have a pointy look about him) :-)  9 > So in this situation DIBOL just wasn't going to happen.  >    __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:28:45 +0200 @ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>J Subject: Re: Legacy Win: NASA Kills 'Wounded' Launch System Upgrade at KSC+ Message-ID: <3D8F4F4D.1060202@mail.tele.dk>    Jan C. Vorbrggen wrote:  G > At some place in the article, the cost-to-completion was estimated at O > around $560M. That's at least 3000 person-years of effort, for some 3 million H > lines of code (why so much, anyway?). So a person on this project doesH > 1000 lines of code per year, or about 4 lines per average working day.1 > Man, what would I give to have a job like that.    ????  0 If 100% of project time is used coding, then you are correct.  6 Very likely both project planning/meetings and testing is way bigger than coding.  4 And I would expect NASA to have quality requirements significant above average.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2002 04:16:16 -0700) From: meidanze@hotmail.com (meidan zemer) ) Subject: login to nt domain using sys$acm = Message-ID: <3bbfbaa2.0209220316.47345e03@posting.google.com>    Hello,> Does anyone tried and succeded to login to a NT Computer using sys$acm?< I am trying to find out the way but there is no documention.@ If you can please send me the source code so i will have a start point.? *** I need to use the features of nta$logon but we have so many B problem with    it so we think it is for the best to work directly with the sys$acm.    Thanks Meidan   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 09:27:32 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion ) Message-ID: <J5$okjbOgxwq@elias.decus.ch>   o In article <DQ4j9.191124$AR1.8120787@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D8CD063.79438643@videotron.ca... >  > ...  > L >> So when I see those TV ads for SUVs, I laugh.  The folks are given such a- >> false sense of security by the advertsing.  > B > Actually, no.  Virtually all the people who buy SUVs will not beK > encountering anything but low-traction situations in which the 4WD may in M > fact be useful and the other limitations you note won't matter:  they won't N > be fording deep streams, or driving on non-roads, or through vast amounts ofM > desert dust.  The closest they're likely to come to having ground-clearance L > problems will be deep mud (some Northern New England dirt roads are closedM > for this reason for a few weeks each year, but are bad enough that even the L > highest vehicles can have problems) and deep snow (where you have a prettyN > good idea of what you're getting into before you get into it, and should act > accordingly).  > L > The false sense of security is much more likely to come from the incorrectL > belief that they'll be safer in a crash, as was just noted (I think here). >   H Just a slight correction, pertaining to the UK. Folks will buy somethingD like a Range Rover as a status symbol, and at the first sign of snowE will deliberately head off into it, when those who know better decide F to stay at home. Those folks tend to get stuck because they don't haveC the experience of driving in rough conditions. 4WD and high ground  7 clearance does no good if you don't know how to use it.   F Advice from many years ago, given to a friend who had a brand spanking> new Range Rover, leather seats et al, after being dug out of a0 snowdrift: "Next time, get a Nissan Patrol". :-)   __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 09:42:16 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion ) Message-ID: <aFejzV7Jaw1t@elias.decus.ch>   o In article <8l6j9.187426$z91.7889454@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D8CEA4D.4387075A@videotron.ca... >> Bill Todd wrote: E >> > Actually, no.  Virtually all the people who buy SUVs will not be K >> > encountering anything but low-traction situations in which the 4WD may  > inD >> > fact be useful and the other limitations you note won't matter: >>E >> The problem is that the urban SUVs have tractions systems that use  >> differentials.  > N > And the solution is limited-slip differentials:  do you know for a fact thatG > they aren't used, because it's certainly my impression that they are.  > L AFAIK, most of the 4WD vehicles available in Europe have differential locks,5 if not as standard equipment, then an optional extra.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 10:12:14 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion ) Message-ID: <lexk48kcJVr$@elias.decus.ch>   o In article <T7bj9.190738$z91.8141132@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > 2 > "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> wrote in message: > news:Xns9290E4E4F2480acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232...; >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> enlightened us with ? >> news:8l6j9.187426$z91.7889454@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com on  >> 21 Sep 2002:  >> >> >? >> > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message + >> > news:3D8CEA4D.4387075A@videotron.ca... ? >> >> The problem is that the urban SUVs have tractions systems  >> >> that use differentials.  >>8 >> Hmmm.... must just be the cheap ones. Don't most have? >> some sort of "traction control" system that effectively does  >> what you are asking ? >>< >> > And the solution is limited-slip differentials:  do you8 >> > know for a fact that they aren't used, because it's+ >> > certainly my impression that they are.  >>; >> Hmmmm..... some non-4WD vehicles come with that. My tiny ? >> 91 BMW 318is (a rear-wheel drive vehicle) has a limited-slipe: >> differential and does quite well on bad roads (assuming> >> appropriate tires for the conditions) in New England in the
 >> winter....  > B > Actually, technology may by now have supplanted the limited-slipK > differential (a purely mechanical approach which has existed for at leastTL > the last 40 years:  it was popular with muscle cars in the '60s as a meansM > of avoiding asymmetrical tire-slippage while drag-racing), at least in somevN > installations:  if some kind of anti-lock braking system is already present,M > it's probably possible to use its sensors and intelligence to apply brakingn< > force to individual wheels that are sensed to be spinning. >   And indeed, it is already there:  C http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/46352/article.htmlt  ? The bottom of the article quotes a surprisingly large range of t= manufacturers offering tracion control on one or more models.    __
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 04:53:38 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion , Message-ID: <3D8D84F0.DE90FE96@videotron.ca>   Paul Sture wrote:sN > AFAIK, most of the 4WD vehicles available in Europe have differential locks,7 > if not as standard equipment, then an optional extra.c  B If it is optional, what percentage of buyers pay for that option ?  L When I spend 2 weeks cycling an outback road, the few vehicles I encounteredK (less than a handful per day and that was a busy by outback standards) wereeN almost all toyota landcruisers with a few real landrovers and some specialisedM 4wd trucks as well as one roadtrain. (only 2 trailers, but it still generatedt a huge cloud of dust).  4 All the vehicles were very dirty, full of red dust.   I Upon arriving at Kata Tjuta (the olgas, next to Ayers Rock) and hitting a-L sealed road, it was a shock to actually see cars, and especially clean cars.F And many of these were so-called "SUVs" that are rented by tourists. A: completely different world from the real world of outback.  L The stuart highway (and lasseter which links it to Uluru (Ayers Rock) may be? going through the outback, but they are far from outback roads.c    N And to bring this back to the topic: The folks who do real outback excusrsionsI don't choose the fancy luxurious vehicules, they choose the ones that arenG really built for the outback with true 4wd features to get them through2J difficult terrain. Then there are folks who buy fancy SUVs because the SUVN loosk great and they think they will look great when they are seen driving it.  H Serious folks will choose VMS for its rock solid features even though itM doesn't look fancy or great, but they know that under the hood, it'd got whathL it takes to do what they need to do reliably. You don't want your vehicle to$ break down in the middle of nowhere.  N But then the majority will choose the fancy, glitzy OS (Windows, or the trendyN Linux) because they feel they will look good having chosen that and they don'tD really care about the missing stuff because for one thing they don'tQ understand it, and secondly, they may never take that system to difficult places.   J (Of course, if they grow, they will soon find out that the glitzy solutionM they found isn't really capable of doing a good job as soon as you expand out-@ of the urban environment and encoubter the first unsealed road).  K You know, those Toyota Landcruisers don't look great. Very bland design andfL don't appear so fancy. But seems that the folks who really go in the outbackM choose those over other models because they are designed to be rock solid andeM capable of handling the outback. Land Rover has decided to focus on the urbanlM market with fancy leather seats etc etc. You'll only see the older landrovers N in the real outback. The newer ones are just too expensive to be beaten up :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 14:16:19 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)-! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestiong) Message-ID: <UNRrjWZDH6LL@elias.decus.ch>   \ In article <3D8D84F0.DE90FE96@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Paul Sture wrote:(O >> AFAIK, most of the 4WD vehicles available in Europe have differential locks,w8 >> if not as standard equipment, then an optional extra. > D > If it is optional, what percentage of buyers pay for that option ?  H I don't know, but it is likely to come in as part of a "sports package",= or similar and is probably standard on the higher end models.s  D From my perusal of card adverts here in Switzerland, optional extras' are often bundled together in packages.   ? IIRC the one on mine only kicks in at speeds less than 10 Km/h.    > N > When I spend 2 weeks cycling an outback road, the few vehicles I encounteredM > (less than a handful per day and that was a busy by outback standards) were-P > almost all toyota landcruisers with a few real landrovers and some specialisedO > 4wd trucks as well as one roadtrain. (only 2 trailers, but it still generatedD > a huge cloud of dust). >   J A similar story in the bits of Africa I have visited, with the addition of Nissans.  6 > All the vehicles were very dirty, full of red dust.  > K > Upon arriving at Kata Tjuta (the olgas, next to Ayers Rock) and hitting abN > sealed road, it was a shock to actually see cars, and especially clean cars.H > And many of these were so-called "SUVs" that are rented by tourists. A< > completely different world from the real world of outback. >   8 Dust is a real reason to avoid luxuries such as electric4 windows, since they are one more item susceptible to< clogging up. In remote spots, the ability to repair vehicles5 without fancy tools is also a factor to consider whenl buying..  N > The stuart highway (and lasseter which links it to Uluru (Ayers Rock) may beA > going through the outback, but they are far from outback roads.v >  > O > And to bring this back to the topic: The folks who do real outback excursions3K > don't choose the fancy luxurious vehicules, they choose the ones that arelI > really built for the outback with true 4wd features to get them throughoL > difficult terrain. Then there are folks who buy fancy SUVs because the SUVP > loosk great and they think they will look great when they are seen driving it. > J > Serious folks will choose VMS for its rock solid features even though itO > doesn't look fancy or great, but they know that under the hood, it'd got whatoN > it takes to do what they need to do reliably. You don't want your vehicle to& > break down in the middle of nowhere. >    Exactly.  P > But then the majority will choose the fancy, glitzy OS (Windows, or the trendyP > Linux) because they feel they will look good having chosen that and they don'tF > really care about the missing stuff because for one thing they don'tS > understand it, and secondly, they may never take that system to difficult places.  > L > (Of course, if they grow, they will soon find out that the glitzy solutionO > they found isn't really capable of doing a good job as soon as you expand outlB > of the urban environment and encoubter the first unsealed road). > M > You know, those Toyota Landcruisers don't look great. Very bland design and	N > don't appear so fancy. But seems that the folks who really go in the outbackO > choose those over other models because they are designed to be rock solid andoO > capable of handling the outback. Land Rover has decided to focus on the urbaniO > market with fancy leather seats etc etc. You'll only see the older landrovers P > in the real outback. The newer ones are just too expensive to be beaten up :-)  : A relevant story came out of the Live Aid charity campaign8 in 1985. Whoever ordered Range Rovers and Land Rovers to9 ship out to Africa bought UK spec models, so they had theo2 wrong tyres and suspension for African conditions.   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2002 13:57:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestionn5 Message-ID: <amki88$6jrdv$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  ) In article <J5$okjbOgxwq@elias.decus.ch>,t, 	p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: > J > Just a slight correction, pertaining to the UK. Folks will buy somethingF > like a Range Rover as a status symbol, and at the first sign of snowG > will deliberately head off into it, when those who know better decidetH > to stay at home. Those folks tend to get stuck because they don't haveE > the experience of driving in rough conditions. 4WD and high ground V9 > clearance does no good if you don't know how to use it.e > H > Advice from many years ago, given to a friend who had a brand spanking@ > new Range Rover, leather seats et al, after being dug out of a2 > snowdrift: "Next time, get a Nissan Patrol". :-) >   # I can second this.  Anecdote time!!sG   One time when I was still in the Army I was at Ft. Gordon in Georgia.iI   I was attending a course that involved driving off-road.  In the middle F   of the afternoon a pair of young soldiers came walking back from theJ   course.  Seems they had got their Jeep stuck axle deep in a wet sand-pitI   and were sure it was going to take a truck to drag it out.  I rode backhH   with them in the recovery vehicle.  Looked the situation over and thenI   climbed into the Jeep and drove it out of the hole.  Like any tool (VMSo6   included) it is only as good as the person using it.   bill  4 [Like how I tried to get this back on topic.  :-)  ]   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:18:15 GMTe0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestionr0 Message-ID: <3d8db4ac.415048437@news.eircom.net>  F On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:19:13 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  I >Wenzel and Ross determined that SUVs and pickup trucks are substantially K >more dangerous to occupants of other vehicles than are passenger cars. But L >contrary to conventional wisdom, they also found that, on average, SUVs areK >no safer than cars for their own occupants - in part, at least, because ofR! >their greater risk of roll-over.s  E I'm curious - why is rollover so dangerous? Intuitively it would seemmC highly unlikely to kill you, though my intuition could certainly bee wrong here.    -- ,3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply.t! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 15:54:41 GMTv1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestionR' Message-ID: <3D8DED68.4751891A@fsi.net>,   Russell Wallace wrote: > H > On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:19:13 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > K > >Wenzel and Ross determined that SUVs and pickup trucks are substantially M > >more dangerous to occupants of other vehicles than are passenger cars. But N > >contrary to conventional wisdom, they also found that, on average, SUVs areM > >no safer than cars for their own occupants - in part, at least, because ofS# > >their greater risk of roll-over.  > G > I'm curious - why is rollover so dangerous? Intuitively it would seemaE > highly unlikely to kill you, though my intuition could certainly bet
 > wrong here.w   I should think it depends on:i  ! o Are your safety belts fastened?p  G o Is it a simple roll over, or is there enough roof impact to crush thef5 passenger compartment, leaving trapped, maimed or ...e  E Consider: many roadways have drainage ditches along side. The vehiclesF may roll into the ditch, with the entire momentum of the vehicle being% imposed on the roof. Think: roll bar.    -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 16:03:56 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Problem using Perl library functions on VMS) Message-ID: <ie8K$hQxB1nO@elias.decus.ch>o  0 I am having trouble using a Perl library on VMS.   Here's the code:   #!/usr/bin/perl    use lib '/perl_root/lib/'; use lib '/perl_root/lib/cpan/';s   use LWP::UserAgent;    And here's the error  E Can't locate LWP/UserAgent.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /perl_root/lib/r
 /perl_root8 /lib/cpan/ perl_root:[lib.VMS_AXP.5_6_1] perl_root:[lib] perl_root:[lib.site_per2C l.VMS_AXP] perl_root:[lib.site_perl] /perl_root/lib/site_perl .) atU user_sy:[jim! .debug_html]html_check.pl line 6.r  @ Both cpan.dir and cpan.pm exist in perl_root:[lib]. cpan.pm does contain    package CPAN::LWP::UserAgent;5  
 Any ideas?   __
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 02:47:38 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t7 Subject: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCLt, Message-ID: <3D8D6771.76369646@videotron.ca>  I With DECNET, one has very good DCL access to network stuff. Including the J ability to open a link to some server, send a transaction, get a response,- close the link. (As well as file operations).   K I think that there should be considerations to allow similar functionlalityt via DCL.  
 for instance:y1 OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "TCPIP:www.chocolate.com:80"r or1 OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "UCP:bike.transport.com:432"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 04:33:25 -0400o* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>; Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCLd- Message-ID: <3D8D4815.17387.C6E17B@localhost>t  ' On 22 Sep 2002 at 2:47, JF Mezei wrote:  > for instance:s3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "TCPIP:www.chocolate.com:80"m > or3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "UCP:bike.transport.com:432"r   Here's a 4 AM design idea.  D Write a program, SOCKET_OPEN. It opens a socket (with parameters of F type, IP, and port), and then waits forever.  If the socket is opened A successfully, it sets job logical name "SOCKET_OPEN_NAME" to its RA process name, and "SOCKET_OPEN_DEVICE" to the device name of the   socket.F   Here's what you'd do with it:C   $! Create a foreign symbol& $ SOCKET_OPEN="$<wherever>SOCKET_OPEN"	 $! Run itt+ $ SPAWN/NOWAIT/NOLOG/INPUT=NL:/OUTPUT=NL: -t% 	SOCKET_OPEN TCP www.chocolate.com 80  $! Get results' $ PROC1 = F$TRNLNM ("SOCKET_OPEN_NAME")l( $ DEV1 = F$TRNLNM ("SOCKET_OPEN_DEVICE") $! Hook it into a logical name $ DEFINE/PROCESS SOC 'dev1'g [...]rC $! use SOC as desired.  READ and WRITE commands might work...  YMMVs/ $! (this requires SHARE privilege, by the way.)g [...]  $! Unhook the logical name $ DEASSIGN/PROCESS SOCE $! Make the subprocess go away, closing the socket (a program to send.D $! it a SYS$WAKE, SYS$FORCEXIT, or a mailbox message would be nicer) $ STOP 'PROC1'  B You could certainly hide this inside a couple of DCL-like command  procedures.b  
 --Stan Quayleb Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147a= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comm   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2002 06:34:14 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCLh= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0209220534.6a7d0f73@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D8D6771.76369646@videotron.ca>...AK > With DECNET, one has very good DCL access to network stuff. Including thesL > ability to open a link to some server, send a transaction, get a response,/ > close the link. (As well as file operations).a > M > I think that there should be considerations to allow similar functionlalityv
 > via DCL. >   % there is ... it is called TCPware ...    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2002 06:35:26 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL6= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0209220535.4add2b73@posting.google.com>R  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D8D6771.76369646@videotron.ca>...0K > With DECNET, one has very good DCL access to network stuff. Including the L > ability to open a link to some server, send a transaction, get a response,/ > close the link. (As well as file operations).t > M > I think that there should be considerations to allow similar functionlalityt
 > via DCL. >  > for instance:d3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "TCPIP:www.chocolate.com:80"t > or3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "UCP:bike.transport.com:432"b  ' you can do this with decnet over ip ...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:37:42 -0400s From: Beach Runner; Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCL & Message-ID: <3D8DF1D6.BA3F8FD0@iu.net>   What is wrong with copy/ftp?       JF Mezei wrote:e  K > With DECNET, one has very good DCL access to network stuff. Including thetL > ability to open a link to some server, send a transaction, get a response,/ > close the link. (As well as file operations).w >aM > I think that there should be considerations to allow similar functionlalityt
 > via DCL. >r > for instance:t3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "TCPIP:www.chocolate.com:80"i > or3 > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "UCP:bike.transport.com:432"s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 16:42:12 GMTS1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS: better TCP access from DCLn' Message-ID: <3D8DF88C.5C9409F8@fsi.net>r   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:t > >iM > > With DECNET, one has very good DCL access to network stuff. Including thecN > > ability to open a link to some server, send a transaction, get a response,1 > > close the link. (As well as file operations).X > >SO > > I think that there should be considerations to allow similar functionlality= > > via DCL. > >  > > for instance: 5 > > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "TCPIP:www.chocolate.com:80"i > > or5 > > OPEN/READ/WRITE temp "UCP:bike.transport.com:432"n > I > Well, even LAT-land, you didn't have a similar mechanism. You'd have tocB > use LATCP to create the port and set the target node and port orE > service. You could then use the resulting LTA device like any other.& > device (TTAx,:, TXAx:, LPAx:, etc.). > ' > At the very least, Multinet provides:  > - >        $ TELNET /CREATE_NTY[=([PERMANENT] -i) >                  [,NAME=logical_name] -p0 >                  [,TABLE=logical_name_table] -3 >                  [,MODE={EXECUTIVE|SUPERVISOR}] -c' >             [/PORT=target-TCP-port] -  >          host  > C >        The options contain a comma-separated list beginning with:h > F >        PERMANENT          Specifies that the NTY device will persistE >                           after you close the TELNET connection. TowD >                           delete the permanent NTY device, use theD >                           MULTINET TELNET /DELETE_NTY=logical_name$ >                           command. > 2 >        and continuing with any of the following: > H >        NAME=logical_name  Specifies the NTY device's logical name. The? >                           default logical name is TELNET_NTY.gE >        TABLE=logical_     Specifies the logical name table to whichtI >        name_table         the new NTY device name is added. The default F >                           logical name table is LNM$PROCESS_PROCESS.E >        MODE=access_mode   Specifies the logical name's access mode.wJ >                           access_mode is either SUPERVISOR (the default)) >                           or EXECUTIVE.u > B >        Privileged users can use /CREATE_NTY options to establishG >        permanent NTY devices. In this case, the NTY device is created H >        but no connection is made to the specified host until the first >        I/O operation.( > < >        Use this qualifier only with permanent NTY devices. > J > You can then OPEN, Close, READ and WRITE the resulting NTY device in DCLJ > or any other program. The target of a MULTINET_STREAM_SYMBIONT queue canB > be used in the same way. LPD targets may not behave as expected. > B > I believe TCP/IP Services ("UCX") provides a similar facility to@ > Multinet, except that the stream symbiont handles things a bitD > differently - no virtual device is created, the symbiont opens the > socket when it needs to. > C > TCPware has the NETCP facility, but I don't have a TCPware system J > available where I can get at the help for NETCP (if it has any). I thinkH > NETCP is how you create devices like Multinet can. Someone more TCPare& > literate will have to speak to that.  H According to the on-line doc.'s for TCPware, there is TELNET host/CREATE and within TELENT, OPEN/CREATE.-   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 02:37:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t3 Subject: Unexpected behaviour of DCL/ CLI$PRESENT() , Message-ID: <3D8D6506.60368F49@videotron.ca>  N Although I have found a workaround (described in another post), I think that I2 have stumbled onto either a bug or a design fault.   with the following CLD:    MODULE TRANSPORT DEFINE VERB TRANSPORT-# 	QUALIFIER BIKE, syntax=BIKE_SYNTAX  	QUALIFIER CAR 	QUALIFIER	POLLUTION 	QUALIFIER	NOISE 	QUALIFIER COST:   DEFINE SYNTAX BIKE_SYNTAXd 	QUALIFIER TAIL_WIND 	QUALIFIER DOWNHILLD 	QUALIFIER FASTB  $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT=TRANSPORT_CLD.OBJ  J In the main program, use LIB$GET FOREIGN, then CLI$PARSE, then CLI$PRESENT  ' In the command TRANSPORT/BIKE/TAIL_WINDF  J CLI$PRESENT("BIKE") yields CLI$_NOTPRESENT, and I feel this is not correct since /BIKE was specified.  N (my workaround was to add QUALIFIER BIKE, default in the BIKE_SYNTAX, and then? check for "BIKE" being CLI$_DEFAULTED instead of CLI$_PRESENT).i  L If /BIKE had a syntax that called a different image, then it woudln't reallyL matter since the other image would know by the fact that it was invoked thatN the user typed /BIKE. But when the same image is being called, then that imageM must know whether BIKE was specified, and I feel it is wrong that if /BIKE is = specified, that CLI$PRESENT would say that it is not present.   J (At the very least, if it "forgets" about /BIKE because of the new syntax,A CLI$PRESENT should complain that BIKE is not part of the syntax).p   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:01:37 GMTt7 From: "harold  pratt" <hjpratt1234@attbi.com@attbi.com>i, Subject: VAX/VMS Advanced Programmer manuals, Message-ID: <RHmj9.34985$gA4.4293@sccrnsc02>  L I have recently uncovered a series of about 20 DEC VAX/VMS manuals - vintage 1983. H They include the Advanced Programmer series (10 vols.), Fortran, Pascal,E Datatrieve, and Decmail. Anyone interested ?  They are located in the  Portsmouth, NH areat Harryo   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:24:50 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)nJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-2209021024500001@1cust21.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  ; In article <3D8CCF18.5B49FCA2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"t <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:    E >My posts in favor of OpenVMS-IA32 are routinely met with a chorus ofdG >follow-ups talking about since there are so many variants of chipsets,FB >third-party controllers, graphics adapters and other incompatibleH >hardware, not to mention the addressing scheme and other limitations ofE >that architecture, that the chances of any of those millions of IA32 I >boxes being able to run any OVMS-IA32 that might be developed are indeedCG >so small as to make it financially infeasible for the OpenVMS group tolD >justify to the corporate bean-counters. (I heartily disagree, but I
 >digress...).h > E >Personally, I'd like to know how that differs from any scenario that I >might evolve as IA64 boxes start to replace IA32s (if, indeed, that evera >does actually happen).   I There are some concrete reasons why IA64 systems should be more "generic"sD than IA32 systems.  IA64's PAL/SAL/EFI/ACPI seem to have most of theI abstractions needed to hide system details, while still giving the OS then info it needs.  & IA32 has BIOS, which is much stupider.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:42:16 +0200+9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>R Subject: Re: VMS, C++ and flushd' Message-ID: <3D8E00F8.EF656DD3@aaa.com>D   Hi.P  8 The ident info from sys$share:decc$shr.exe on the system where we see the problem  :t	 (VMS 7.3)C  *     image file identification: "V7.3-0-02"6     image file build identification: "X91Y-0060010011"#     linker identification: "A11-50"n  6 The same from another system where it all works well : (VMS 7.2-1)r)     image file identification: "V7.2-003" 6     image file build identification: "X6TE-0050130103"#     linker identification: "A11-39"i  ; It *does* works on *other* 7.3 systems (I'v been told), but3) I don't have this info from any of these.h  8 If it have the latest C RTRL ECO ? Well, I don't know...  > A reproducer ? Well, since we now have a workaround (the extraA explicit flushes), and I'v never seen a C++ application before...r  ; Anyway, maybe I'll try to strip it down as much as possibleM9 (right now it's 40+ pages (in standing A4), with a bit ofo; luck I'd might force the error in just a couple of lines...     Many thanks for your interest !! Jan-Erik Sderholm.n     Brad McCusker wrote:M > The system that is seeing the behavior - Does it have the latest C RTL ECO?pL > What is the image ident and link date of DECC$SHR.EXE?  Ditto question for8 > the systems where it the strange behavior is not seen? > $ > Then, could you post a reprodcuer? >  > Brad McCuskerd > OpenVMS Enginering >  > >a > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 13:27:11 -0400g' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 5 Subject: RE: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?tT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9677@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,d   From News.com:E http://news.com.com/2100-1001-958879.html?tag=3Dfd_top (September 20,  2002)e  F "HP executives say they will bundle a six-month trial version of BEA'sH WebLogic application server for HP-UX. In the future, the hardware makerB will bundle BEA's software on other operating systems it supports,2 including Windows 2000, Linux, Tru64 and OpenVMS."   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantj Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660d Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20t  Sent: September 21, 2002 9:45 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come1 Subject: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?     + BEA and Hewlett-Packard Team Up Against IBMr Fri Sep 20, 5:00 PM ET By Ilaina Jonas   G NEW YORK (Reuters) - Hewlett-Packard Co. on Friday said it would bundle E BEA Systems Inc. flagship software product WebLogic on its best-knownuC line of high-end computers, stepping up their alliance to do battlen against a common foe, IBM.  C Hewlett-Packard, which is tied with International Business MachinesrB Corp. as the No. 1 maker of hardware, will ship a copy of the most5 up-to-date version of WebLogic with its UX11i server.d  H "With this bundle, what we provide is a unique competitive offering thatC HP and BEA together can bring to the market relative to our naturale? common enemies here," said Gamiel Gran, BEA's vice president ofi strategic alliances.  D "Clearly, we're eager to present our message relative to IBM and IBMF WebSphere, and similarly HP has an interest to erode IBM market share,	 as well."r  G The announcement is the most recent between the two companies that havefA periodically dangled hints of their relationship ever since Peter G Blackmore, HP's head of high-end computers, said that the company would ! "retire" its middleware business.   H Subsequent to the merger of HP and Compaq, HP shuttered its money-losingH Bluestone middleware division, which had competed poorly against BEA and, IBM's WebSphere software application server.  B BEA has retained a slim lead over IBM in the market of application< servers -- software that programmers use as a base for theirE application. Application servers perform important but routine tasks, D such as load balancing, for networks of servers that run businesses.  H However, the alliance is not exclusive and industry sources said that HP2 is in talks with IBM to offer IBM's WebSphere too.  @ In the new agreement BEA has named HP's OpenView, which monitorsD networks, computers and software application performance to pinpoint> sources of bottlenecks. WebLogic has been adjusted for optimum performance on HP's servers.  D "BEA is rally just trying to find a way to regain momentum that they; clearly lost to IBM," Steve Eisenstadt, IBM spokesman said.t  G About 60 percent of the programs running on BEA WebLogic operate on Sune Microsystems Inc.h  G "This is a clear indicator that we are attempting to diversify and growtC into markets that we have not been as strong in before," Gran said.   F In June, the companies announced that HP would put its giant sales andD services force behind BEA's software products. That alliance createdH teams of consultants from HP's services arm, one of the world's largest,$ specially trained in BEA's products.  D "Our intention is to bundle BEA's WebLogic server with all of our HPH platforms in the future," Don Jenkins, Hewlett-Packard vice president ofB marketing for operating environment software said. Those platformsG include Windows 2000 ( news - web sites) and Linux ( news - web sites).t  F The new agreement will permit customers to use WebLogic during a free,+ six-month trial period, the companies said.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 19:32:21 +0200_@ From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>5 Subject: Re: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?.+ Message-ID: <3D8F5025.9080207@mail.tele.dk>e  4 WebLogic has been available for VMS for a long time.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:45:34 GMTl# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>J5 Subject: Re: Will they offer WebLogic on VMS as well?eG Message-ID: <2lnj9.92201$U_.82588@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>t  : "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message% news:3D8F5025.9080207@mail.tele.dk...a6 > WebLogic has been available for VMS for a long time.  I I knew that......just in the context of the, apparently edited/ shortenedm= news release, there was no mention of a 'free trial' for VMS.f  K With explicit mention of Windows and unix/Linux, it seemed as though it wasw* another case of VMS being given the shaft.  J Kerry has subsequently pointed out the, apparently, complete announcement.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.524 ************************optional extra.  __
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 02 10:12:14 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion ) Message-ID: <lexk48kcJVr$@elias.decus.+    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    