1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 25 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 530       Contents:0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"...0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"...0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"...0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... %SYSTEM-F-DEVREQERR 9 Re: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL message,,, but only on one node? D Re: %WWW-F-MONTAGAR, not responding, Hobbyist layered license expiry Re: AMD in trouble Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! Re: Changing Strings in EXE files ! RE: Changing Strings in EXE files  Re: Convert from ODS-2 to ODS-5  Re: Deleting expired licenses  Re: Deleting expired licenses  Re: Deleting expired licenses  Re: Deleting expired licenses 0 Re: Deleting expired licenses - irrelevant asideP Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atteP Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atteP Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atteP Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atteP Re: From Mark Gorham - Clarification - OpenVMS Symposium AKA OpenVMS  Advanced T Re: Hardware flow control 0 Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ? Re: Hobbyist License Question F HP ETS: Irrelevant To Enterprise Resellers, says one Grand Fromage....J Re: HP ETS: Irrelevant To Enterprise Resellers, says one Grand Fromage.... Re: HP to push .NET big time Re: HP to push .NET big time Re: HP to push .NET big time- I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ 1 Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ 1 RE: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ 1 Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ 1 Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: Marketing suggestion Re: MySQL for VMS? Re: MySQL for VMS?' Re: New Miss America - Miss Ill-a-Noise ' Re: New Miss America - Miss Ill-a-Noise # Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey # Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey # Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey L Re: Proposal: Retirement of some Components of the Compaq C++ Class  LibraryO Re: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license) O Re: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license) O RE: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license)  TCPIP BIND stuff+ Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ? + Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ? + Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ? + Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ? + Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ? + Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?  Re: TCPWARE host table loading Tomcat and CSWS (Apache) UCX security advisory A Re: Unexpected <CR> and <FF> after a Setup module of a queue FORM A Re: Unexpected <CR> and <FF> after a Setup module of a queue FORM  Various BIND questions Re: Various BIND questions0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)# Re: VMS system accounts description # Re: VMS system accounts description ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ' Re: What is happening to the industry ? ( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed( Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed2 Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:32:29 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... 2 Message-ID: <1Ojk9.14$8p4.373791@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Whatever was there (some article on an analyst being sacked from the title; in the top level of the web site) has no text in the story.       B Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote in message <3D91AB09.CAC6A16D@aaa.com>... > ) >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5559  >  >/Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:46:05 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... ; Message-ID: <01KMXAS2QKAE9QWGNO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  F > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote in message <3D91AB09.CAC6A16D@aaa.com>... > . > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D5559 >=20J > Whatever was there (some article on an analyst being sacked from the ti= tle = > in the top level of the web site) has no text in the story.    ???   H I haven't looked at the inquirer in a few days.  I cut and pasted the=20< URL into Mozilla and am now cutting and pasting the article:   Analyst sacked for lying  ' Underqualified tipster backed HP merger   5 By INQUIRER staff: Wednesday 25 September 2002, 12:06   K ANALYST RAM KUMAR, who produced a key report in favour of HP's take-over=20 $ of Compaq has been sacked for lying.  G Kumar, 33, who worked for Wall Street firm Institutional Shareholder=20 J Services had told his bosses he had a law degree from the University of=207 Southern California. In fact he didn't, the FT reports.   K Kumar produced a report on the benefits of the megamerger at a time when=20 J poor Walter Hewlett was raising a bit of a stink. His favourable report=20G is thought to have swung the balance in Carly's favour. Maybe she'll=20  give him a job. =B5    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:23:56 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... 2 Message-ID: <gykk9.21$up4.381056@news.cpqcorp.net>  @ Dunno.  All I get is the line "Inquirer Staff" and nothing more.     Phillip Helbig wrote in message 2 <01KMXAS2QKAE9QWGNO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>... Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  D > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote in message <3D91AB09.CAC6A16D@aaa.com>... > , > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5559 > L > Whatever was there (some article on an analyst being sacked from the title= > in the top level of the web site) has no text in the story.    ???   E I haven't looked at the inquirer in a few days.  I cut and pasted the < URL into Mozilla and am now cutting and pasting the article:   Analyst sacked for lying  ' Underqualified tipster backed HP merger   5 By INQUIRER staff: Wednesday 25 September 2002, 12:06   H ANALYST RAM KUMAR, who produced a key report in favour of HP's take-over$ of Compaq has been sacked for lying.  D Kumar, 33, who worked for Wall Street firm Institutional ShareholderG Services had told his bosses he had a law degree from the University of 7 Southern California. In fact he didn't, the FT reports.   H Kumar produced a report on the benefits of the megamerger at a time whenG poor Walter Hewlett was raising a bit of a stink. His favourable report D is thought to have swung the balance in Carly's favour. Maybe she'll give him a job.     ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:52:37 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... ; Message-ID: <01KMXCINRD5E9QWGNO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   B > Dunno.  All I get is the line "Inquirer Staff" and nothing more.  G [Tilt your monitor by about 20=B0 to get the proper swinging-sixties=20  camera-angle effect!]   B Boy Wonder: Holy protocol standards Batman!  What's going on here?  K Caped Crusader: I think only our old friend King Tut would be capable of=20 J pulling this one off.  With a memory going back several millennia, he's=20 the expert for legacy systems.  # Boy Wonder: What about the Penguin?   H Caped Crusader: The Penguin has another agenda in the IT world at the=20 moment.    Boy Wonder: Right.  H Caped Crusader: It seems that we have a case here where the savvy web=204 page of an online IT rag displays properly on VMS!!!  7 Boy Wonder: That's not necessarily a bad thing, Batman.   E Caped Crusader: Right.  But consider the effects it will have.  By=20 J causing such confusion, King Tut will be able to carry out his sinister=20H plans---whatever they might be---with no trouble, since all of Gotham=20G City will be working to solve this other mystery.  Even all the jaws=20 K dropping will suck in so much air from the atmosphere that there will be=20 1 a noticeable drop of air pressure in Gotham City.   * Boy Wonder: Holy reverse-Affinity-Program!  I Caped Crusader: The big puzzle now is: What browser is Fred Kleinsorge=20 I using?  Being a VMS man himself, it seems strange that his view of the=20 I page should be wrong, but perhaps he's not actually using a browser on=20  VMS.  5 Boy Wonder: I guess we should check up on that first.   I Caped Crusader: Right.  The Batmobile should be able to get us to Spit=20 K Brook Road quickly enough---at least if there's no traffic jam caused by=20 H all those broken-down Corvairs and SUVs without rollover bars!  Let's=20 go!   J Boy Wonder: While we're there, perhaps we can get some of the engineers=20G to add support for BatNET as a cluster-communication protocol.  That=20 I way, we could have a satellite node in the Batmobile itself and remain=20 ) in complete contact with the BatComputer.   E Caped Crusader: Good thinking, Robin.  If they don't have time, or=20 F aren't allowed to by management, perhaps I'll look into it myself. =20H Contact Alfred and have him bring the kernel-mode programming manuals=20G into the study---our statue of the Bard will finally be able to gaze=20 * onto something comparable to his own work.  * Dadadada dadadada dadadada dadadada BATMAN   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 09:30:13 -0700* From: smahler@icbme01.ionics.com (smahler) Subject: %SYSTEM-F-DEVREQERR< Message-ID: <4a62e59.0209250830.490ab011@posting.google.com>  > We have DECnet for OpenVMS VAX V6.1 running on OpenVMS VAX 6.2  > We also have TCP/IP running with DHCP doled out by Windows NT.  = We have operated without problems for years but are currently D experiencing problems with our DECNet terminals.  They are reporting; %SYSTEM-F-DEVREQERR sporaticly.  We also have recently been C experiencing problems with our primary WINS server which we believe * may be causing additional network traffic.  E Can someone shed some light on what the %SYSTEM-F-DEVREQERR means and 4 whether network traffic could be causing this issue?   thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:47:59 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>B Subject: Re: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL message,,, but only on one node?' Message-ID: <3D91783F.7D8C5E@127.0.0.1>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > D > > ... OK. We will go for DOSD and that (I hope ;-)) shouldn't be a > > problem. >  > Sorry, what is DOSD?   Dumpfile Off System Disk     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:42:00 -0400 4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>M Subject: Re: %WWW-F-MONTAGAR, not responding, Hobbyist layered license expiry , Message-ID: <amrls3$dira$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  : "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote in message! news:3D5802CC.4022AE54@Free.fr...  > Paul Sture wrote: C > > The expiry of the OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER license also restricts the 	 number of H > > logins, so it won't let me login in over my network (at least when I am also D > > logged in at at the console - I haven't tried when not logged in there).  > F > AFAIK, the expiry of the VMS license disallows all logins other than via the G > console port, with a message like "No license valid for this software  product.. > Login allowed from OPA0:" or something like.  ) Following up from a message a while back.   E 1) VMS will always allow the console to login - license or not.  This , enables you to access system no matter what.  D 2) VMS will try and allocate units against the base license (VAX-VMSF /OpenVMS-ALPHA).  If enough units are available, the first login couldH come from any source that is working.  Same for 2nd, 3rd, etc.  If thereF are not enough units to login on anything but console, the console can. still login (see figure, erhh, I mean item 1).  G 3) If you have the license OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER / -ADL you have unlimited  logins - have fun.  G I have left a lot out, clusters, etc., but you have the basic login for  what to expect.    mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:38:16 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: AMD in trouble + Message-ID: <3D91D868.7BD0875C@caltech.edu>    Bill Todd wrote:B > > They are burning cash.  They got a billion left.  Enough for aF > > year.  A year in which they will lose money all year all quarters.D > > 2.3 billion in long term debt, a point about this time next year4 > > where the balance sheet looks very scary indeed. > M > Try not to be an idiot, Rob.  If you'd read what I already wrote instead of M > just snipping it, you'd realize that *if* they indeed get into such trouble I > they'll simply be helped or bought by someone with the cash to see them & > through it and capitalize on Hammer. > J > All they need is an angel less stupid than Compaq was with DEC's assets. > That's not asking much.   M No, it isn't.  Just off the top of my head there's IBM (always), VIA (already M very synergistic with AMD) and Sony.  Don't know about VIA, but the other two L have the cash for this.  And if a certain company had any vision of a betterE future HP would also be on the list.  No, I don't honestly expect C^2 0 to see the possibilities in such an acquisition.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:45:41 -0400 % From: "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> & Subject: Changing Strings in EXE files/ Message-ID: <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>    All:  I My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we would K like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to the  new company name.   D I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCB COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  L What would be the easiest way to change it?  (is there a patch utility?  canI I use TPU or a variant?  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we  have)?  L I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be exactlyL the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem, assuming I can pad with spaces.  L Is there anything I need to worry about?  Does VMS use any type of checksums8 (created when the EXE is built) to verify it at runtime?  L Note that we would also like to do this without recompiling the programs, asI this affects a number of programs and  recompiling would probably require F retesting based.  Yes, in my gut I believe patching the image would be- 'safer' than recompiling the whole enchilada.    Lou Solomon ' CCH-LIS nee' Intercounty Clearance Corp    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:08:33 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files0 Message-ID: <00A14764.B6B14D89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:  >All:  > J >My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we wouldL >like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to the >new company name. > E >I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABC C >COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  > , >What would be the easiest way to change it?  F Go to the source and modify it; recompile it; relink it; reinstall it.     >  (is there a patch utility?   ( Yes but only on VAX (supported that is).     >  can >I use TPU or a variant?   Perhaps.    3 >  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we  >have)?    If you feel you must.     M >I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be exactly M >the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem, assuming I  >can pad with spaces.   J If the strings are stored and used with descriptors, you can patch the old< string data and you could modify the descriptor length word.    ) >Is there anything I need to worry about?    Fluctuating interest rates.  The outbreak of WWIII.H Asteroids crashing into the planet and annihilating all of civilization. Terrorists.  The government. 
 Pollution.    % >  Does VMS use any type of checksums 9 >(created when the EXE is built) to verify it at runtime?   G Yes, but it is not likely that you will be diddling within the sections + that are sanity checked with any checksums.     M >Note that we would also like to do this without recompiling the programs, as J >this affects a number of programs and  recompiling would probably requireG >retesting based.  Yes, in my gut I believe patching the image would be . >'safer' than recompiling the whole enchilada.  J I've never compiled an enchilada.  I assume you would need the sauce file?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:14:34 -0400 % From: "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files/ Message-ID: <up1etucs49mo68@corp.supernews.com>   E I do appreciate the sarcasm and puns, but you weren't really all that  helpful.  J It is on an Alpha (7.2) and I would rather not, as I clearly stated in the+ bottom of my message, recompile everything.   J Note that I just tried the TPU approach, but the file was 'converted' uponI saving to something that wasn't recognized by the system as a valid Alpha  image.   Thanks.. Lou   * <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A14764.B6B14D89@SendSpamHere.ORG...? > In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon"  <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:  > >All:  > > L > >My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we wouldJ > >like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to the  > >new company name. > > G > >I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABC E > >COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  > > . > >What would be the easiest way to change it? > H > Go to the source and modify it; recompile it; relink it; reinstall it. >  >  > >  (is there a patch utility?  > * > Yes but only on VAX (supported that is). >  >  > >  can > >I use TPU or a variant? > 
 > Perhaps. >  > 5 > >  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we 	 > >have)?  >  > If you feel you must.  >  > G > >I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be  exactly D > >the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem,
 assuming I > >can pad with spaces.  > L > If the strings are stored and used with descriptors, you can patch the old> > string data and you could modify the descriptor length word. >  > + > >Is there anything I need to worry about?  >  > Fluctuating interest rates.  > The outbreak of WWIII.J > Asteroids crashing into the planet and annihilating all of civilization.
 > Terrorists.  > The government.  > Pollution. >  > ' > >  Does VMS use any type of checksums ; > >(created when the EXE is built) to verify it at runtime?  > I > Yes, but it is not likely that you will be diddling within the sections - > that are sanity checked with any checksums.  >  > L > >Note that we would also like to do this without recompiling the programs, asL > >this affects a number of programs and  recompiling would probably requireI > >retesting based.  Yes, in my gut I believe patching the image would be 0 > >'safer' than recompiling the whole enchilada. > L > I've never compiled an enchilada.  I assume you would need the sauce file? >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:43:49 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files3 Message-ID: <Vf3k9.54$Rv3.1532043@news.cpqcorp.net>   0 In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, ' "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:   E >I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABC C >COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  > 1 >What would be the easiest way to change it?  ...   H Change the source; recompile and relink.  This is the "right" way to do J this.  I rather think that doing it "right" is better than the "quick-and-$ dirty" approach you are considering.  G It is possible, to modify the exisitng .EXEs, but if you don't know how K you are almost certainly better off NOT doing it.  In any case, you'd still 2 have to modify the sources for future maintenance.  E I think there is an Alpha version of PATCH available in the Freeware,  if it is of any interest.    --  I       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:42:08 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files. Message-ID: <3D90C010.BE1639B2@mindspring.com>   Lou Solomon wrote:  K > My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we would M > like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to the  > new company name.  > F > I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCD > COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  1 You probably want to tell us what sort of strings - these are. As the previous (somewhat obscure) % reply noted, there are several kinds:   (   o ASCIZ strings (like C-strings) where,      the end-of-string is marked by a <NULL>      character  ,   o ASCID strings where there's a descriptor*      that gives the starting address and a      byte-count   -   o ASCIC strings where the first 16-bit word       gives the byte count.    N > I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be exactlyN > the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem, assuming I > can pad with spaces.  / In general, all three types are amenable to any , new message that is equal to or shorter than, the old message. With ASCID strings, you may, want to keep the length equal unless you can/ find the descriptors (which could be a bit more 1 challenging than findingthe string, although it's 6 certainly not impossible, especially if the descriptor( happens to directly precede the string).  - As the other person noted, on a VAX you could + use the PATCH utility but DEC never brought * that forward to Alpha. If you have the RSX( environment, you could use ZAP> :-). But0 this should also be possible in any full-fledged+ programming environment so BASIC should do.    Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:38:40 -0400 % From: "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files/ Message-ID: <up1gb2c36ll711@corp.supernews.com>    Charlie:  I Thank you for the information on the Patch utility on the freeware disks.   H As for the rest of your message, I thought I made it pretty clear that I: didn't want to go through the edit/recompile/relink cycle.   Thanks,    Lou               0 I understand your advice, but I specifically didE "Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net> wrote in message - news:Vf3k9.54$Rv3.1532043@news.cpqcorp.net... 1 > In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, ) > "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:  > G > >I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABC E > >COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".  > > 3 > >What would be the easiest way to change it?  ...  > I > Change the source; recompile and relink.  This is the "right" way to do L > this.  I rather think that doing it "right" is better than the "quick-and-& > dirty" approach you are considering. > I > It is possible, to modify the exisitng .EXEs, but if you don't know how G > you are almost certainly better off NOT doing it.  In any case, you'd  still 4 > have to modify the sources for future maintenance. > G > I think there is an Alpha version of PATCH available in the Freeware,  > if it is of any interest.  >  > --K >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA J >        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:11:26 +0100  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files) Message-ID: <3D917DBD.8465C96E@Omond.net>    Lou Solomon wrote:  	 > VAXman:  > K > Can you just assume that I know (to some extent) what I'm doing, and that E > I'm making, is a reasonable cost/benefit/risk analysis for my case.  > M > I truly do appreciate advice on risk and best options, but I know it can be K > done, easily.  Just because I don't know the proper sequence of commands, M > you should use my specific ignorance in this issue, as a reason not to give < > me a technical answer (not advice) to the problem at hand. > M > For example, an earlier message on another topic of changing the string for > > rejected mail messages, wrote a fragment like the following: > H > $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:64,mrs:64) mail.exe (or is the message in > MAILSHR ?) > $ edit/edt mail.exe  > L > that's all I wanted.  Something quick and dirty.  If it worked, it worked.K > If not, not.  And please, you need not reply about potential side effects K > even  if it looks like it works (let alone the possibility of things that ! > might happen if it don't work).  > [...snip...]  B I was the one offering the EDT solution.  One word of warning whenF trying this:  you need to be careful in situations where the string to( be replaced straddles record boundaries.  @ I strongly suggest you look at getting VFE (Virtual File Editor)D which is freeware.  It's *perfect* for this sort of thing and easily= programmable for multiple files.  IMHO it's the best solution ; for your problem.  I would only use the EDT route for quick 	 one-offs.   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:54:02 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files0 Message-ID: <00A147E8.CBEDC8A2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <3D90CF61.6853F2D9@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: K >>   Go to the source and modify it; recompile it; relink it; reinstall it.  >>  . >> Sage advice and you'd be best to follow it. > L >has it ever occured to you that he the guy asked the question and mentionedC >that he would rather not have to recompile stuff that there may be I >non-technical reasons that make it hard for him to go the "sage" route ?  > L >consider if he is system manager, and the sourse is held by a 3rd party ISVO >who wrote customized software and the company no longer deals with that ISV).  L >Consider the case where asking for the development dept to recompile it mayJ >result in political problems inside the company, or a whole lot of budgetL >issues with one dept charging another for a whole recompile, test etc etc ?  ; Except that he did say he'd rather not modify the source.     K As for politics, this is a technical forum.  He asked for technical advice. I If you want to discuss politics, go to one of the soc.* political forums.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:29:20 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files3 Message-ID: <H0MvasZgOc0z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:  > All: > K > My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we would M > like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to the  > new company name.  > F > I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCD > COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp". > N > What would be the easiest way to change it?  (is there a patch utility?  canK > I use TPU or a variant?  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we  > have)?  G    There is a supported patch utility as part of VMS if you are running H    on a VAX.  There is an unsupported patch utility on the web somewhere    for those running Alpha.   N > I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be exactlyN > the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem, assuming I > can pad with spaces.  ?    Look for a counted string, null terminated string, or string H    descriptor (depending on the language the code was originally written    in).   N > Is there anything I need to worry about?  Does VMS use any type of checksums: > (created when the EXE is built) to verify it at runtime?      No.  N > Note that we would also like to do this without recompiling the programs, asK > this affects a number of programs and  recompiling would probably require H > retesting based.  Yes, in my gut I believe patching the image would be/ > 'safer' than recompiling the whole enchilada.   F    Could not disagree more.  If you alter the binary, you need to testE    the binary, since that is what you actually run.  If you alter the F    source you can limit the testing to those things which interface to7    the altered routine and the resulting altered files.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:52:13 GMT ' From: "Mark E. Levy" <mark@openvms.com> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files. Message-ID: <0kik9.538646$me6.74559@sccrnsc01>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3D9180F6.E5FA2B36@127.0.0.1... ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:    ...   E > Of course, when an eventual recompile occurs, one assumes that your 4 > procedure is reapplied, so you have documented it.  H One would hope that the source would also be changed so that it won't be+ necessary to patch the .EXEs in the future.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:20:37 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files' Message-ID: <3D91B825.CF770D6A@vcu.edu>2  * hhmm... now just how much disk DOES google" have??????????????????????????????   jimr   Nic Clews wrote: > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > >r   very good stuff deleted...    F > Never mind, Google keeps the messages, so if something should happenH > sufficient that someone wishes to fully research, they'll discover theH > answer one way or another. Paranoia? Are you certain there's something > you've not overlooked? >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 08:17:00 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files3 Message-ID: <GvkQPd7GSS$E@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  T In article <3D9180F6.E5FA2B36@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:n >>  N >> Please disregard the paranoia that you are picking up.  Patching the stringL >> will work just fine.  I have done that sort of thing several times in theK >> past.  Doing it with different length strings would have been asking forn; >> trouble, but blank-filling will cover that issue nicely.  > H > So there you are, sat on the runway in a typical fly by wire aircraft,I > then someone tells you they patched the code, hopefully not interferingnH > with anything else, making allegedly a cosmetic change, and you're off > on a 9 hour flight.r  ? A certain amount of paranoia is healthy.  But I assume that the C poster would have mentioned that he was working on mission criticalcB embedded flight systems if that fact were relevant to the question at hand.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2002 15:15:56 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files3 Message-ID: <+X4hRDraWNbM@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  W In article <up1d7mius6192c@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:PK > My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we wouldtM > like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to thee > new company name.: > F > I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCD > COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp". > N > What would be the easiest way to change it?  (is there a patch utility?  canK > I use TPU or a variant?  should I write a quick program (Basic is what wes > have)? > N > I would make the assumption that the replace string would have to be exactlyN > the same size as the source string.  This would not be a problem, assuming I > can pad with spaces. > N > Is there anything I need to worry about?  Does VMS use any type of checksums: > (created when the EXE is built) to verify it at runtime?  L Please disregard the paranoia that you are picking up.  Patching the string I will work just fine.  I have done that sort of thing several times in thelH past.  Doing it with different length strings would have been asking for8 trouble, but blank-filling will cover that issue nicely.  C One way to do the edits would be to simply use $ EDIT /TPU and thenc! fix up file attributes afterward:e   $ EDIT /TPU oldfile.EXEG make your fixese& $ CONVERT oldfile.exe * /FDL=SYS$INPUT record format fixed size 512 ^Z    I just verified that this works.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:32:32 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files, Message-ID: <3D90CBD7.D47BE44A@videotron.ca>   system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:G > >I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCsE > >COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp".n > >t. > >What would be the easiest way to change it?   On VMS, you could use Patch.    K But you could also transfer the file to a MAC or PC and use a binary editoreJ suchas HEXEDIT and change it there and return it to VMS (ensuring the file$ transfer doesn't cut off some bits).  K I have used PATCH to change the 3270 terminal emulator that Digital used tohL sell to change an escape sequence that was being sent to the terminals whichM was very annoying. I had to make sure hat the string length didn't change (soo' pad any unsused characters with nulls).h  M To make the string longer requires much expertise and knowledge of the sourceeN code (you'd have to add the string at the end of the program and then find theP pointers that pointed to the old string and change them to point to the new one.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:32:30 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files2 Message-ID: <yZ3k9.55$I_2.140418@news.cpqcorp.net>   [possible duplicate post]a  W In article <up1gb2c36ll711@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com> writes:q	 >Charlie:e >PJ >Thank you for the information on the Patch utility on the freeware disks.   You're welcome.]  I >As for the rest of your message, I thought I made it pretty clear that I-; >didn't want to go through the edit/recompile/relink cycle.0   You did.  C I and others are trying to make it equally clear that what you wantRG to do may not be a good idea.  You may in fact find that the money and pF time needed to 'patch' these .EXEs is comparable to the money and timeD needed to modify the source, recomplie and relink.  Plus, as I said,@ you'll be ahead of the game since you'll have up-to-date source.  D Not to belabor the issue, but I have modified executable code at oneH time or another using everything from punched cards, to a patch utility,F to DCL code.  From that perspective it is my opinion that if I had theA source code I would NOT undertake to modify the .EXEs, given the t information you have provided.  F On the other hand, if you do NOT have the sources, then modifying the D EXEs may be your only choice.  In this case, I think I would NOT useB PATCH -- becaue you need to input the exact locations to the patchE utility.  Getting those locations could be a problem.  I assume theree" is a "large" number of .EXEs, yes?  F After making very sure I had a good backup of the .EXEs, I would writeC a program to read them, search each record for the old copany name,dE and update the file with the new name.  Actually, given DCL's ability = to manipulate strings, it would not be a bad choice for this.W  ! N.B.  OTHER OPINIONS WILL DIFFER! >       THIS IN NO WAY REFLECTS AN OPINION OR RECOMMENDATION OF         OpenVMS ENGINEERING OR HP!  E BTW, not to sound patronizing, but if you feel uncomfortable with anynG of the above, you might consider hiring an consultant with the requisit 8 knowledge and experience.  Could be well worth the cost!  
 Good Luck!   --  I       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA2H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:42:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files, Message-ID: <3D90CE3A.1A025275@videotron.ca>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:p/ > As the other person noted, on a VAX you coulds- > use the PATCH utility but DEC never brought  > that forward to Alpha.    L Didn't they finally relent and port PATCH to alpha ? Or was I just dreaming.  P And how come Larry Kilgallen hasn't come in yet with "you can do it with TECO" ?  M He mentioned ones that he was able to edit a floppy disk drive with TECO. (asoN opposed to editonmg files on said drive). It would seem to me that TECO should) therefore be able to edit an executable ?'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:47:39 -0400z- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>:* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files, Message-ID: <3D90CF61.6853F2D9@videotron.ca>   system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:J >   Go to the source and modify it; recompile it; relink it; reinstall it. > - > Sage advice and you'd be best to follow it.a  K has it ever occured to you that he the guy asked the question and mentionedtB that he would rather not have to recompile stuff that there may beH non-technical reasons that make it hard for him to go the "sage" route ?  K consider if he is system manager, and the sourse is held by a 3rd party ISVsN who wrote customized software and the company no longer deals with that ISV). K Consider the case where asking for the development dept to recompile it may-I result in political problems inside the company, or a whole lot of budgeteK issues with one dept charging another for a whole recompile, test etc etc ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:28:51 -0400o% From: "Lou Solomon" <lny98@yahoo.com>e* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files/ Message-ID: <up1j95r9qa6ca1@corp.supernews.com>e   VAXman:s  I Can you just assume that I know (to some extent) what I'm doing, and thatmC I'm making, is a reasonable cost/benefit/risk analysis for my case.i  K I truly do appreciate advice on risk and best options, but I know it can begI done, easily.  Just because I don't know the proper sequence of commands,dK you should use my specific ignorance in this issue, as a reason not to givea: me a technical answer (not advice) to the problem at hand.  K For example, an earlier message on another topic of changing the string fore< rejected mail messages, wrote a fragment like the following:  F $ set file/attr=(rfm:fix,lrl:64,mrs:64) mail.exe (or is the message in
 MAILSHR ?) $ edit/edt mail.exeh  J that's all I wanted.  Something quick and dirty.  If it worked, it worked.I If not, not.  And please, you need not reply about potential side effectsGI even  if it looks like it works (let alone the possibility of things thata might happen if it don't work).m   Lou     I > Then convert it to something the Alpha does recognize an a valid image.nK > If you don't understand this, mucking about with the strings and possiblerG > descriptors within your image(s) is far beyond your abilities and younH > really should consider the sage advice above. (or pay me to patch your > images ;)u  * <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1476B.E25F884B@SendSpamHere.ORG...? > In article <up1etucs49mo68@corp.supernews.com>, "Lou Solomon"  <lny98@yahoo.com> writes: H > >I do appreciate the sarcasm and puns, but you weren't really all that > >helpful.  >  > Sure I was.  I wrote:s >dJ >   Go to the source and modify it; recompile it; relink it; reinstall it. >p- > Sage advice and you'd be best to follow it.a >s >oI > >It is on an Alpha (7.2) and I would rather not, as I clearly stated in  thea. > >bottom of my message, recompile everything. >2K > You don't need to recompile everything; only the modules which have thesenK > strings and are modified to change the strings need to be recompiled.  IfpK > your application used something like MMS, you'd have very little to do toe > update your application. >0L > As for testing... unless you're a drug company and have to run some overlyJ > cautious validation suite to prove that changing a name didn't cause theB > end of the world, what is the big deal?  ... besides CPU cycles? >: >-H > >Note that I just tried the TPU approach, but the file was 'converted' uponL > >saving to something that wasn't recognized by the system as a valid Alpha	 > >image.S >XI > Then convert it to something the Alpha does recognize an a valid image.oK > If you don't understand this, mucking about with the strings and possible G > descriptors within your image(s) is far beyond your abilities and youpH > really should consider the sage advice above. (or pay me to patch your > images ;)l > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >f6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >E >Q   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:32:29 GMTh& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>* Subject: Re: Changing Strings in EXE files3 Message-ID: <1K5k9.60$TR3.2087989@news.cpqcorp.net>u   Lou Solomon wrote: > All: > K > My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we wouldAM > like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to thee > new company name.  > F > I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCD > COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp". > N > What would be the easiest way to change it?  (is there a patch utility?  canK > I use TPU or a variant?  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we: > have)?  C I have editted many .EXE files to change strings exactly like John DH Briggs suggested.  As long as you keep the lengths the same, you should  be fine.  < To answer your question, no there are no checksums that are H automatically checked by the image activator.  You can see the "before" I and "after" with CHECKSUM/IMAGE but the code doesn't do that for you and  & compare it to some "protected" values.   --   John Reagana' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Companyf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:04:00 -0400 ; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>d* Subject: RE: Changing Strings in EXE filesK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E49028BEB03@rlghncst964.usps.gov>a  5 Considering the volatility of the IT industry today, e4 perhaps you should run the executables by means of a4 foreign command so they'll take parameters, and have P1 be the company name.e   :^)n  7 WWWebb (four companies, six years, same job, same site)r   -----Original Message-----/ From: "John Reagan" [mailto:john.reagan@hp.com] ) Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 6:32 PMc To: "Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" * Subject: RE: Changing Strings in EXE files     Lou Solomon wrote: > All: >uK > My company was recently purchased (ie: merged) with another, and we would,I > like to change references in our programs from  our old company name to- the- > new company name.  >,F > I have done a VMS search through the EXE's and found the string "ABCD > COMPANY" (our old name).  I would like to change it to "XYZ Corp". > I > What would be the easiest way to change it?  (is there a patch utility?  canhK > I use TPU or a variant?  should I write a quick program (Basic is what we. > have)?  B I have editted many .EXE files to change strings exactly like JohnG Briggs suggested.  As long as you keep the lengths the same, you shouldt be fine.  ; To answer your question, no there are no checksums that aretG automatically checked by the image activator.  You can see the "before"iH and "after" with CHECKSUM/IMAGE but the code doesn't do that for you and& compare it to some "protected" values.   -- John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadera Hewlett-Packard Companyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:46:57 GMTs- From: "labadie" <labadie_g.tocardsa@decus.fr>d( Subject: Re: Convert from ODS-2 to ODS-53 Message-ID: <l1_j9.13$5v3.1514524@news.cpqcorp.net>p  A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ) news:RAZj9.6$z26.17395@news.uswest.net...eK > What are the benefits and gotcha's of converting from ODS-2 to ODS-5 on alF > VMS 7.3-1 system with Samba VMS 2.2.4 running.  Also, how is it done   If it is a new disku init/struct=5 ...h else set vol/struct=5 ...  ( But you can not go back to ods-2 easily.  4 For the benefits and gotcha, it is a wide subject...   Regardsa   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:09:54 -0400m4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>& Subject: Re: Deleting expired licenses, Message-ID: <amrk1u$di9c$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message4 news:f7Uf9.1016$Zi.380202@news1.news.adelphia.net...D > After the last power failure a few months back, it became apparent thatH > the boot time of my MicroVAX and my Multia were suffering from all the/ > old hobby licenses that have expired on them.z >s   John,c  	 Nice job.i    Did you think of trying to do a:   $ lic list /term[=date]/befe  > to get all licenses that have a termination date before today?  @ It will reduce amount of data the procedure has to walk through.   Just a suggestion.  F Maybe we should add a LICENSE DELETE/STATUS=TERMINATED (Well, there is2 not actually such a status, but you get the idea).   Larry, what do you think?  :-)   mark   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 05:17:58 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o& Subject: Re: Deleting expired licenses3 Message-ID: <cipjdHYLlVmI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <amrk1u$di9c$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes:1  H > Maybe we should add a LICENSE DELETE/STATUS=TERMINATED (Well, there is4 > not actually such a status, but you get the idea). >   > Larry, what do you think?  :-)  C I think it goes against the apparent original design -- to keep allrC licenses that were ever on the machine in the file as an historicalhA record.  Of course I rejoiced at VMS V3.5 or so when VMS rejected 8 the original decision to have Backup default to /REWIND.  A There have been some either in this newsgroup or on DECUServe who C thought they found some Terms and Conditions of their licenses that A prohibited them from deleting expired licenses from the database.a  B Of course the original design of LMF anticipated a peak of sellingA a maximum of one license per product for each system.  It did noteB anticipate the Hobbyist (or for that matter CSA/ASAP) situation ofA generating licenses for a large fraction of the possible licenses / _each_year_ for the relevant subset of systems.d   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 09:06:03 -0700% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) & Subject: Re: Deleting expired licenses; Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0209250806.932933@posting.google.com>u  B Anyone who has worked with Pathworks for a long time will probablyC appreciate this thread. Every new release of Pathworks comes with a B new license that must be loaded. If a system has been around sinceF LM-DOS days, that is a bunch of licenses. Half of the time the licenseC PAKs (shipped separately) don't arrive and it takes a wasted day totC shake them out of the tree. In spite of the statements I've read inoB c.o.v. about how good HPQ's license tracking is, my experience hasA been to the contrary. Finding someone knowledgeable at HPQ to asktF about licensing issues is getting even harder than it was in the past,E and it's never been easy. I'd love to see a cost vs. benefit analysise of HPQ's licensing practices.e    DL Phillips  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<cipjdHYLlVmI@eisner.encompasserve.org>...e > In article <amrk1u$di9c$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes:  > J > > Maybe we should add a LICENSE DELETE/STATUS=TERMINATED (Well, there is6 > > not actually such a status, but you get the idea). > > " > > Larry, what do you think?  :-) > E > I think it goes against the apparent original design -- to keep allnE > licenses that were ever on the machine in the file as an historicaltC > record.  Of course I rejoiced at VMS V3.5 or so when VMS rejectede: > the original decision to have Backup default to /REWIND. > C > There have been some either in this newsgroup or on DECUServe who E > thought they found some Terms and Conditions of their licenses thatAC > prohibited them from deleting expired licenses from the database.. > D > Of course the original design of LMF anticipated a peak of sellingC > a maximum of one license per product for each system.  It did not D > anticipate the Hobbyist (or for that matter CSA/ASAP) situation ofC > generating licenses for a large fraction of the possible licensesS1 > _each_year_ for the relevant subset of systems.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:08:57 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>& Subject: Re: Deleting expired licenses+ Message-ID: <00A14847.14C92800.18@decus.de>l   "Mark Buda" wrote:   >e: > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message6 > news:f7Uf9.1016$Zi.380202@news1.news.adelphia.net...F > > After the last power failure a few months back, it became apparent > thatF > > the boot time of my MicroVAX and my Multia were suffering from all then1 > > old hobby licenses that have expired on them.  > >t >s > John,a >h > Nice job.n > " > Did you think of trying to do a: >I > $ lic list /term[=date]/bef  >f@ > to get all licenses that have a termination date before today? >oB > It will reduce amount of data the procedure has to walk through. >  > Just a suggestion. >IE > Maybe we should add a LICENSE DELETE/STATUS=TERMINATED (Well, theree is4 > not actually such a status, but you get the idea). >l  > Larry, what do you think?  :-) >s > mark >   * LICENSE DELETE /STATUS=status /[NO]CONFIRM  3 with "/CONFIRM" being the default of course ... :-)E   Michaelt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:15:47 -0400d# From: "Tom Cole" <tom.cole@sas.com>a9 Subject: Re: Deleting expired licenses - irrelevant asidet/ Message-ID: <amsgej$2bj$1@license1.unx.sas.com>g  J Idle aside, I misread the example below 'cuz I was in a hurry and tried it< on my V7.2-2 system as shown below with the resulting error:      AXP> LICE LIST /DATEd$     %LIB-F-BADBLOSIZ, bad block size  G Anyone know what the /DATE qualifier does?  It's not in my online help;lB perhaps it's just a deprecated (and now apparantly non-functional) qualifier, but I was curious...S  + I suppose at best this is a minor bug... :)a    ? "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> wrote in messagea& news:amrk1u$di9c$1@lead.zk3.dec.com... [elided]" > Did you think of trying to do a: >n > $ lic list /term[=date]/befg   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:23:25 GMTn+ From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com> Y Subject: Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atten3 Message-ID: <xz_j9.17$1v3.1510485@news.cpqcorp.net>I  8 "Marty Kuhrt" <kuhrt@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:MzFBjCLUF7oL@eisner.encompasserve.org...t   <snip>  B > I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.= > (bottle in front, flanked by VMS bigots, doubly so!  :^p  )i  G I'll join you for the bottle, but you can keep your flanks to yourself.g   <snip>  B > I'll be self-lepering this trip, as my loverly wife decided thatB > St. Louis wasn't the type of travel location she wanted to waste4 > days off on.  Count me in on the leper-schlepings!   That is a disappointment!e  " > West Coast Purple Shirted Leper, > Marty   > I'll be bringing my purple VMS-Viagra Marty(tm) shirt as well!   Mike, Still a lepero --# Caveat pagina non mutatio quantitash	 Mike Kier)$ HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USAl mike.kier@hp.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:57:09 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGoY Subject: Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atte60 Message-ID: <00A1481B.85D09F26@SendSpamHere.ORG>  O In article <3D91AA9C.6F3CBFAF@hp.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes:  >Sue Skonetski wrote:r >> rI >> Send me mail and we can arrange a time.  If I remember correctly thered% >> are several brew pubs in St Louis.f >dE >If you have a few hours to kill, Anheuser Busch's brewery and world  K >headquarters is a very quick drive from the convention center. (I used to rM >work there back when I lived in St. Louis). They run brewery tours 7 days a  G >week, which can be fun regardless of your personal taste in brews. Of kM >course, if you'd like a cold Bud, there is the free tasting after the tour.  K >They usually have a couple of the other ~30 beers Busch brews for tasting i >as well (which ones vary).r  M ... and after the first 10 or so, who will really care how the rest taste? :)e     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            s5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:37:30 GMTn5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> Y Subject: Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are attel2 Message-ID: <uvmk9.32$dw4.540736@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message' <00A1481B.85D09F26@SendSpamHere.ORG>...tH >In article <3D91AA9C.6F3CBFAF@hp.com>, Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes:  >>Sue Skonetski wrote: >>>aJ >>> Send me mail and we can arrange a time.  If I remember correctly there& >>> are several brew pubs in St Louis. >>E >>If you have a few hours to kill, Anheuser Busch's brewery and world-K >>headquarters is a very quick drive from the convention center. (I used toSK >>work there back when I lived in St. Louis). They run brewery tours 7 daysg aDG >>week, which can be fun regardless of your personal taste in brews. OfnG >>course, if you'd like a cold Bud, there is the free tasting after the  tour. K >>They usually have a couple of the other ~30 beers Busch brews for tastingh >>as well (which ones vary). > K >... and after the first 10 or so, who will really care how the rest taste?d :) >a  G It's BUDWISER you need the first 10 to KILL the taste.  The ONLY way to34 drink Bud is from longnecks, ICE COLD, on a hot day.  L _Fred (who has a "degree" from Beer School at the Busch tent at SeaWorld ;-)  I BTW - for those who come to the Nashua event, the Anheuser Busch plant is I located in Merrimack about a 15 minute ride from the building.  They have 6 the tour, the tasting, and frequently the Clydesdales.  D BTW - The REAL event in the area for beer used to be the late AugustL "Brewers Offering" fund raiser for WBUR (Boston University) radio in Boston.L They stopped doing it, and have not responded to mail asking why... I have a> feeling that too many of the college kids were getting wasted.  I A close place to get reasonable beer while in the Nashua area is Martha'stL Exchange in downtown.  But there is also the Nuttfield brewery in Derry, theK Portsmouth Brewery (Redhook), and the big time Boston Beer Company and home ; of Sam Adams in Boston.  Plus a few others like Smuttynose.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:30:22 GMTo& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: ETS is only a couple of weeks away - Leper colony - how many of you are atte-& Message-ID: <3D91AA9C.6F3CBFAF@hp.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > H > Send me mail and we can arrange a time.  If I remember correctly there$ > are several brew pubs in St Louis.  D If you have a few hours to kill, Anheuser Busch's brewery and world J headquarters is a very quick drive from the convention center. (I used to L work there back when I lived in St. Louis). They run brewery tours 7 days a F week, which can be fun regardless of your personal taste in brews. Of L course, if you'd like a cold Bud, there is the free tasting after the tour. J They usually have a couple of the other ~30 beers Busch brews for tasting  as well (which ones vary).  H There's also have a small stable at the plant, and the tour often stops " in so you can see the Clydesdales.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:20:30 GMTmF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)Y Subject: Re: From Mark Gorham - Clarification - OpenVMS Symposium AKA OpenVMS  Advanced Tw3 Message-ID: <Ow_j9.16$Nv3.1531028@news.cpqcorp.net>y  n In article <NcGj9.25639$q41.24516@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > H >I don't think the issue was that of horsepower so much as it was one of >bandwidth availability. >nK >Say the decision was made to do streaming audio/video for those who cannot F >attend in person. Not knowing what kinds of data connections that areJ >available at the hotel, the thought was 'roll your own' with a high speedJ >link back to the office where I presume a lot of bandwidth to the outsideI >world is available. The audio/video streams could be buffered and servedo >from there.  @ If the hotel wants to make itself attractive to holding industry@ presentations there (and HP is not by any means the only company< in Nashua that has presentations, nor is it the only company? which wants to have presentations there, as companies come here1> to visit to present to the people who work in this area), then= the hotel should put in a better networking connection.  Thatc9 way, anyone who presents there could use it, not just HP.>  4 Perhaps you should make that suggestion to Sheraton.   --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have as5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.I   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2002 17:24:26 -0400& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)" Subject: Re: Hardware flow control1 Message-ID: <amql6a$3aa$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>i  1 In article <02092415065755@dscis7-0.dalsemi.com>,h!  <don.rogstad@dalsemi.com> wrote:oG : Sorry the original message came out in HTML format.  Let's try again:d : G : Does anyone have examples of implementing hardware flow control on a o% : terminal port for use with QIO(W)s?s : I : I have AlphaServer 1000A 5/400 Hobbyist machine running OpenVMS V7.2-1  M : with Compaq C V6.4-008.   I have an external device (specialized hardware,  L : not a modem) connected to the TTA0: port which communicates at 9600 Baud, K : eightbit, no parity and hardware flow control.   When the port is set to rM : NOMODEM, I do not get any response from the device.   When the port is set aL : to MODEM, I lose the first character of the response (and usually get the M : "%LOGIN-F-NOTMODEM, OpenVMS host system modem not wired correctly; contact r; : system manager" OPCOM message).  But I do get a response.  : K :    It looks like if the port is set to NOMODEM, I have to handle raising eK : and lowering DTR, DSR, CTS, etc. signals.  I have never programmed using tJ : QIO's so this is a first for me and do not know how to control the flow O : control.  Do I have to track DTR, DSR, etc. signalling inside the program?   i< : Will OpenVMS turn off CTS if the buffers get full or do I? : N : Also, if I read the manuals correctly, then to send a break, I have perform:8 : 	1) Send QIO with IO$_SENSEMODE to get characteristicsF : 	2) Send QIO with IO$_SETMODE with TT$M_BREAK or'ed with the parity  :            receive above : 	3) wait a period of timen? : 	4) Send QIO with IO$_SETMODE with TT$M_BREAK bit turned off. : : Question: How long is the period of time supposed to be? : 7 A regular BREAK is 250msec; a "long BREAK" is 1500msec.   J I can't be very helpful about the rest except to suggest that somebody who? knows what they are doing add the code for RTS/CTS to C-Kermit:o  -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html   K which already does all the other stuff (serial port control, BREAK-sending,sK logging, scripting, etc).  Then controlling this device, and tons of otherseI like it, becomes a simple matter of writing a semi-trivial Kermit script:   /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.htmle  H The Unix version of C-Kermit handles RTS/CTS just fine; the commands areI already there in the VMS version, just #ifdef'd out.  The work that needs F to be done is writing a tthflow() routine for the ckvtio.c module, andI figuring out how to do it in such a way that the code will still build one older VMS releases.l   - Frank-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:07:19 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)C9 Subject: Re: Hardware Mirroring 'vs' Software Mirroring ?.- Message-ID: <Gzh7vpsv8OB0@cuebid.zko.dec.com>2  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Rob Brooks wrote:  >> sM >> I can't give you an example of the type of problem that could cause a fullcP >> merge; a full merge would be needed only if the context needed for mini-merge3 >> has been destroyed.  That shouldn't happen . . .g > H > Is the example when a system crashes? the 'dirty' bit is set on both /J > all members of a HBVS due to improper dismount, and the operating systemF > software will perform a full merge by default. (Also interested in a > reply to David's response).v  N No.  A system crash will not _in general_ cause a full merge.  Note that we'reN putting the finishing touches on this stuff, so we haven't tested all possibleM combinations of catastrophe.  However, _the_ fundamental design specificationsM for this project has been that we'll do a full merge only if something ratherhG unexpected has happened.  We will strive for 100% mini-merges.  I can'trJ define "unexpected" any better than to describe the situations under whichG you'd get a system crash with (for example) INCONSTATE or SHADDETINCON.oI Those two are catchall bugchecks that trigger when any number of internalr% inconsistencies have been detected.  R  H Similarly, a mini-merge requires a fair amount of context to be saved.  I If the required context is not considered to be valid, we'll fall back tohL a full merge.  However, we've gone to extreme lengths to make sure that thatE context gets saved across crashes, controller failures, etc . . .  Wew3 really don't like full merges any more than you do.e  J I'll field any more questions that you guys have, but I'm not really goingL to get into the details of the implementation, as certain things may change.     --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:46:45 -0400y4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>& Subject: Re: Hobbyist License Question, Message-ID: <amrm61$dirt$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagemE news:rdeininger-0508020837380001@1cust162.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...   D > By default, something in the startup procedures LOADs all eligible7 > licenses.  So yes, rebooting would solve the problem.a >r > So would the simple commandt > $ LICENSE LOAD *  E In SYS$STARTUP:VMS$CONFIG-050_LMF.COM, which is invoked during systemm startup, the command  + $LICENSE START /DATABASE=LMF$LICENSE /NOLOGP  ' which does an implicit LICENSE LOAD/ALLm   mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 06:37:30 GMTr1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>eO Subject: HP ETS: Irrelevant To Enterprise Resellers, says one Grand Fromage.... ? Message-ID: <JQck9.395008$kp.1185182@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>.  K So sayeth the Grand Fromage of an HP reseller in the southwestern USA. Said I Fromage maintained that the lack of highly-visible public statements fromhF Senior Compaq managers makes this indubitibly obvious. Never mind thatK Capellas, Marcello, McDowell, Jim Milton, Nora Denzell, Paul Santeler, BilllK Woo, Hoff Hoffman, John Loether, Barb Stinnett, et al will be speaking; andnK that there will be a slew of NDAs of an variety of products that enterprise ( resellers will be interested in selling.  K He used this as an excuse to prevent an enterprise-certified sales rep from L attending HP ETS2002, even though the individual in question had access to aF free admission, a free place to stay, and intended to travel by car to attend the event.k  K Now, I know this guy is a Boss, so he is of course smarter than the rest ofiL us. That said, given the fact that I see plenty of resellers at these shows,4 I gotta wonder if mayhap the Emperor Has No Clothes.  G Have any resellers attended a DECUS or CETS? And if so, did you find it ? valuable, or, as the Grand Fromage says, a total waste of time?-   Responses appreciated.   cheers,0   terry s    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:05:38 -0400E5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> S Subject: Re: HP ETS: Irrelevant To Enterprise Resellers, says one Grand Fromage....o* Message-ID: <amsmsl$gij$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  G Well Terry as you know HP is very committed to our Partners and to ETS.e% Every year there are some people thatoG for one reason or another decide not to send their people.  Its a shameP< since they will not be getting all the valuable information.D The bottom line is that while we can offer all sorts of venues, ETS,@ Symposium, Con call ect... It is still up to the individuals and& their companies to make the decisions.  G There is a list of folks displaying at the tradeshow areas and they arey	 Partners.t  L I think the fact that Michael Capellas is speaking says that HP is committedK to this event.  The VMS group is sending 25 people, and of course rumor hase- it that Charlie Matco is speaking as well ;')    Warm Regards as always,o   sued        < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 news:JQck9.395008$kp.1185182@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...-H > So sayeth the Grand Fromage of an HP reseller in the southwestern USA. SaidK > Fromage maintained that the lack of highly-visible public statements fromyH > Senior Compaq managers makes this indubitibly obvious. Never mind thatH > Capellas, Marcello, McDowell, Jim Milton, Nora Denzell, Paul Santeler, BillI > Woo, Hoff Hoffman, John Loether, Barb Stinnett, et al will be speaking;n andfB > that there will be a slew of NDAs of an variety of products that
 enterprise* > resellers will be interested in selling. >tH > He used this as an excuse to prevent an enterprise-certified sales rep fromL > attending HP ETS2002, even though the individual in question had access to a H > free admission, a free place to stay, and intended to travel by car to > attend the event.  > J > Now, I know this guy is a Boss, so he is of course smarter than the rest ofG > us. That said, given the fact that I see plenty of resellers at these  shows,6 > I gotta wonder if mayhap the Emperor Has No Clothes. >eI > Have any resellers attended a DECUS or CETS? And if so, did you find it A > valuable, or, as the Grand Fromage says, a total waste of time?t >  > Responses appreciated. >t	 > cheers,f >h	 > terry sv >t >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:39:49 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o% Subject: Re: HP to push .NET big timeu? Message-ID: <Vj2k9.389395$kp.1174748@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   , <lbohan@dbc..spamless..com> wrote in message2 news:opf0puc690g4ntiotr8ab8m7tv52gi7kmi@4ax.com.... > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:53:42 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:w >eH > >  HP, based in Palo Alto, Calif., and Redmond-based Microsoft plan to spendeC > >about $25 million  each, said Rick Fricchione, vice president ofp
 Enterprise" > >Ready Microsoft Services at HP. >s? > I'd wonder why HP wants to donate $25M towards a MSFT effort;F> > (You'd think Billy's pockets would be deep enough to buy the >  whole lunch? ...) >o> > Terry Shannon's remarks inre MSFT organ donors come to mind;' > that much hasn't changed, apparently.u  J Same concept, diffferent donor. But that might be an oversimplification as' both firms are investing in the effort.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:31:40 -0700n' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>t% Subject: Re: HP to push .NET big timep+ Message-ID: <3D91D6DC.23A8E7FB@caltech.edu>o   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:- > . > <lbohan@dbc..spamless..com> wrote in message4 > news:opf0puc690g4ntiotr8ab8m7tv52gi7kmi@4ax.com...0 > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 00:53:42 -0400, JF Mezei) > > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:t > >iJ > > >  HP, based in Palo Alto, Calif., and Redmond-based Microsoft plan to > spend E > > >about $25 million  each, said Rick Fricchione, vice president ofl > Enterprise$ > > >Ready Microsoft Services at HP. > >.A > > I'd wonder why HP wants to donate $25M towards a MSFT effort;o@ > > (You'd think Billy's pockets would be deep enough to buy the > >  whole lunch? ...) > >a@ > > Terry Shannon's remarks inre MSFT organ donors come to mind;) > > that much hasn't changed, apparently.  > L > Same concept, diffferent donor. But that might be an oversimplification as) > both firms are investing in the effort.@  : I've seen this show twice already and hardly need to watch= this tired plot unfold yet again.  Remember when Digital mader? a big show of how it was training all those MSCEs?  Deja vu alle; over again.  Much of the cast has even be retained from theo two earlier efforts (sic).   Here are the Cliff notes:y  2 1.  Company is infected with managerial parasites.= 2.  Infected company loses ability to make rational decisions A     and hands over intellectual capital and markets to Microsoft.dD 3.  Remains of the infected company are devoured by other companies.; 4.  Parasites move on to kill other companies.  (EspeciallylB     the one foolish enough to have ingested the most pieces of the     previous infected company.)u   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:49:57 -0400e% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>-% Subject: Re: HP to push .NET big time / Message-ID: <up3q9mp38gchec@news.supernews.com>y  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D914D5E.A2312D3F@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:tI > > Color me stupid, but might this be a way for Microsoft to achieve its 8 > > ambition of RENTING software rather than selling it? > C > But isn't that the main goal of .NET to begin with ? I had alwaysn
 understood$ > that this was the purpose of .NET.  L That is a common misconception.  .NET is a new development environment.  New6 from the ground up.  I wish VMS had something similar.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:24:54 -0700h, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>6 Subject: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/4 Message-ID: <amskg8$8ref4$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>   Is it just me?   Jim    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:38:04 -0700 (PDT)i. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>: Subject: Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/@ Message-ID: <20020925153804.35618.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>   Yes !   + It is working fine here in South America ! e   Regardsm   FC t/ --- James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote:y > Is it just me? >  > Jimk >  >      =====s ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazily fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?) New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!. http://sbc.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:30:34 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>,: Subject: RE: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEMHFMAA.tom@kednos.com>e   Nope.t  ' FREJA> nslookup  www.openvms.compaq.comc Server:  ns1.sprintlink.net  Address:  204.117.214.10  F *** ns1.sprintlink.net can't find www.openvms.compaq.com: Non-existent	 host/doma  in   >-----Original Message----- 2 >From: James Gessling [mailto:jgessling@yahoo.com], >Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:25 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/e >n >i >Is it just me?e >r >Jim >t >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).vA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002n >c ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:10:53 +0200i$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>: Subject: Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/* Message-ID: <00A14847.5972BC05.6@decus.de>   "James Gessling" wrote:e   > Is it just me? >  > Jimi   No.e  ; But http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver is accessible for me.   ? So it seems to be a specific problem of the OpenVMS web server.n   MichaelP   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:17:40 +0100y( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>: Subject: Re: I can't get to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/) Message-ID: <3D91E1A4.2E009008@127.0.0.1>j   James Gessling wrote:c >  > Is it just me?  $ I couldn't get to it, but now I can.  B Our proxy server did have a copy of the pages, but when I forced aH reload I got an "Unresolved host name" so I think the fault was with the- DNS server, not the actual web server itself.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesM nclews at csc dot comE   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:59:51 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestione0 Message-ID: <3d905316.138230948@news.eircom.net>  E On 23 Sep 2002 07:59:41 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>i wrote:  E >High CG and no roll bars or roll cage. They tend to either roll on a G >slope, and keep rolling all the way down, or skid then flip violently. ( >Neither is a health promoting activity.  B Ah, SUVs don't have proper roll bars (which you'd really want on a> vehicle with such a high center of gravity)? Right, that would/ definitely not do much for their safety record.t   -- v3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."O+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacea   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:06:53 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion50 Message-ID: <3d9053e7.138439524@news.eircom.net>  C On 23 Sep 2002 14:37:00 GMT, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e wrote:  D >(The Army replaced the Jeep with the much wider HumVee because of a+ >percieved roll-over problem with the Jeep.a  C I read about an incident in the Gulf in 1991, where an SAS team wasrC behind enemy lines with Land Rovers or something similar; they wereaF driving at night in rough terrain to avoid detection, and for whateverA reason hadn't brought night vision equipment, and one of the carso ended up rolling over.  F The driver got to walk away from the incident because of an unforeseenE stroke of luck: the machine gun mount ended up serving as a roll bar.    -- -3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:29:42 GMTa+ From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com> ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestiono3 Message-ID: <qF_j9.18$hy3.1606691@news.cpqcorp.net>e  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:PMsxKu+WG2yX@eisner.encompasserve.org...e> > In article <87heghk2ql.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:u > >aL > > The Corvair also had; a exhaust heated air heater built to `traditional' > > US auto standards, >UI >    One of the early Corvair problems was that it did not use an exhaustcJ >    heat source for the air heater.  It simply picked up air that had runG >    over the outside of the engine (thus subject to any leaks that the2F >    engine and/or exhaust or their connetions had developed) and intoI >    the passenger compartment.  A small leak could introduce significant2J >    amounts of CO undetected.  Small leaks in exhaust connections are notG >    uncommon.  This arangement, Nader claimed, made it safe to run thee heaterI >    or defroster only with both a CO detector strip and the windows fullwG >    open.  GM countered that the owner should keep the vehicle in goodu >    maintenance.h >lG >    The exhaust heat source used by VW and most small aircraft is muchoG >    safer.  It uses a heat exchanger attached around or built into the I >    exhaust manifold, away from the manifold/engine and manifold/muffler G >    connections.  Clean air is directed through the heat exchanger andnF >    into the passenger compartment.  This is much less likely to leakG >    (exhaust manifolds rarely fail) and would likely cause both a loud3H >    noise and major odor if it did fail.  Many pilots use a CO detector >    strip anyhow. >a  I My '66 Corvair Monza leaked about a quart of oil a day at its worst.  Youa? couldn't run the heater in winter for the smell of burning oil.o  E Of course its nasty habit of breaking the cotter pin and dropping themE castellate nut off the steering linkage is what ultimately did it in.   K I loved the 2-speed dash-mounted automatic transmission control, though :-)u   --	 Mike Kier $ HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USAe mike.kier@hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Sep 2002 13:36:10 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion-3 Message-ID: <JyFVLT7DGt5A@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <amprar$80dns$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <ed2XMVAC4Hbl@eisner.encompasserve.org>,u2 > 	koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ >> In article <3D8FC1F8.98E7B0F0@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:B >>> I thought Corvair had an engine (belt) driven supercharger...? >>>  >>  H >>    I don't know what charging options were available, but the belt onG >>    the uncharged 62 Corvair we had had enough trouble just trying toj3 >>    turn the fan, and was a major pain to change.n > G > Your joking, right??  The only problem I ever saw was the cars desire F > to constantly throw that belt.  Any truly experienced Corvair driverG > carried at least one spare with them at all times and intalling it one$ > the side of the road took minutes. >   7    Nope.  Maybe after 62 they made it easier to change.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:04:12 GMTi+ From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com>P! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestion 3 Message-ID: <MG2k9.50$eJ3.1884205@news.cpqcorp.net>_  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:NZa6rELF2TLl@eisner.encompasserve.org...7A > In article <qF_j9.18$hy3.1606691@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Mike Kier"x! <michael.kier@compaq.com> writes:e > >9K > > I loved the 2-speed dash-mounted automatic transmission control, thoughr :-)n >iH >    You mean the one that looked like an overgrown lawn mower throttle?   Yep, that's the one!   --	 Mike Kiera$ HP Consulting & Integration Services Cincinnati, OH, USAs mike.kier@hp.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:07:22 GMTa1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) ! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestionv8 Message-ID: <KJ2k9.1135$121.52106@twister.austin.rr.com>  # Art Beane (beane@petris.com) wrote:aI : Bill Todd said: "... Virtually all the people who buy SUVs ... won't be  : fording deep streams ..."a : I : -- except when they're driving the streets of Houston ;-) -- Last year,aF : the "puddle" on highway 59 a couple miles from our house was 22 feetH : deep (http://www.floodsofhouston.com/TimBoczon/hwy59c.jpg) and streets0 : often have about 8 inches during a heavy rain. :  : ? Not even one of these SUVs could have dealt with Tropical Storm  Allison's flooding <G>:   )      http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.htmlr      The Future of SUVsc  %      http://poseur.4x4.org/order.html 6      The Future of SUVs Kenworth Pilgrimage order form  D One of Dutton Marine's 4-wheel-drive amphibians was the only vehicle? that could deal with flooding caused by Tropical Storm Allison:   /      http://www.timdutton.com/4Wheel-Drive.htmlj      4 Wheel Drive  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailv   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:03:00 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e! Subject: Re: Marketing suggestionc, Message-ID: <3D90D2F9.99D7B00F@videotron.ca>   Jerry Leslie wrote:aA > Not even one of these SUVs could have dealt with Tropical Stormn > Allison's flooding <G>:o > + >      http://poseur.4x4.org/futuresuv.htmlg    L Thanks for the link.  This would actually be very good for the economy. WithN those Kenworth trucks becoming mass produced, it would significantly lower theL costs of 18 wheel trucks and thus make truck shipments cheaper and thus makeI the USA economy much more comsptitive with lower prices for products etc.r    L It would also give a big boost to the homebuilding/renovations economy sinceL so many would have to have their garage rebuilt to accomodate their new SUV,D possibly major changes to the house if it is built above the garage.  M And office buildings may have to make structural changes to their undergroundiJ parking lots, perhaps removing one level to allow the other levels to have higher ceilings.  K But for the ultimate, you should look at australian road trains. EspeciallyeL the fuel trucks. If you hooked up the carbuator to the 3 huge fuel tanks youM are towing, you could go on for perhaps a whole year without refueling. ThinkeK of the savings you would have.  Fill the tanks when the price of gas is lowlJ and then enjoy that low price for the whole year. And the truck engines in$ australia are much bigger than here.  J I still remember when I came back from my first australian trip how the 18) wheel trucks here looked like tonka toys.-   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 06:07:48 -0700) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)i Subject: Re: MySQL for VMS?d= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0209250507.4fd6804d@posting.google.com>i  q colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive) wrote in message news:<b10654c6.0209231021.4322a945@posting.google.com>...tE > I'm a fairly frequent user of MySQL on *nix, and would like to have B > the same available in VMS.  I've wanted to port MySQL to VMS for; > years, but never have the time (and probably never will.)t  C I've got the client and PHP support going for a database on a Tru64s box.   H mc sys$disk:[]mysql "-V"E $9$dka0:[sys0.syscommon.][php.ext.mysql.client]mysql.exe;1  Ver 10.12r0 Distrib 3.23.27-beta, for OpenVMS 7.3 (alphaev6)  B This is for in house use (since it was requested), rough, and I've also just got:  . PHP_MYSQL.EXE Into SYS$COMMON:[PHP.EXTENSIONS]  F Our MySQL database is on a recently installed Tru64 8400 with a DE500.E The DE500 does not behave itself with a CISCO switch at full duplex -gB and this will die badly in that config. Actually FTP will also die badlym0 in that config if you don't disable delayed ack.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:36:09 -0700% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: MySQL for VMS?y) Message-ID: <amshkp02cvb@drn.newsguy.com>i  = In article <55f85d77.0209250507.4fd6804d@posting.google.com>,  P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU says...pH >>Our MySQL database is on a recently installed Tru64 8400 with a DE500.F >The DE500 does not behave itself with a CISCO switch at full duplex -  F Under VMS 7.2-1 with DE500s I have found that our full duplex problemsP disappeared somewhere along the line. Some combo of firmware upgrades and/or VMSI patches seems to have finally got autonegotiate right. I used to have ouraJ production ES40s locked at 100Mb/sec HD but now find that auto seems to beH reliable. Might be worth checking you are fully up to date with firmware revisions on the 8400.  C >and this will die badly in that config. Actually FTP will also diea >badly1 >in that config if you don't disable delayed ack.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:01:13 -0400,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e0 Subject: Re: New Miss America - Miss Ill-a-Noise, Message-ID: <3D90C482.BE22FA8D@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:D >    Because the folks in Chicago can't pronounce Des Plains, and ifB >    they tried they'd probably think it was at Ohare.  When I was0 >    living there, it was pronounced des plainz.  G Perhaps because in french, it would be Des Plaines, which would make it,L obvious that the last sound isn't a zed. As a matter of fact, in french, the? trailing s is silent. (a bit like the "open" in silent for VMS..   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:03:36 GMTs, From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: New Miss America - Miss Ill-a-Noise; Message-ID: <Xns9293A394D28ADLenNewsgroupID@16.105.248.153>t  5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in   news:3D8FC410.B3C791BE@fsi.net:i  G > They probably also say "Maw-nah LO" instead of "mah-Ooh-nah LO-ah" or,# > "Mah-we" instead of "mah-OOH-ee".e  ; How could you overlook Hah-nah-loo-loo for Hoh-noh-loo-loo?i   Aloha,   len.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 03:18:26 -0700% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> , Subject: Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey( Message-ID: <ams2hi0l41@drn.newsguy.com>  5 In article <3D918ADC.E4F05524@127.0.0.1>, Nic says...o >h >Kenneth Farmer wrote: >> t >> r9 >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/survey.html  >e@ >On Netscape 4.79, *both* radio buttons (for some questions) are! >selected, and I can't deselect !,  D That happened to me with Internet Exploder 6 as well so don't worry!  E >I'll try LYNX... Oh, appears to work, seems my face doesn't fit if Id& >happen to use 4.79 of Netscape. Sigh. >y >-- @ >Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences >nclews at csc dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:48:20 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r, Subject: Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey3 Message-ID: <jR9wcX3ItYWt@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  T In article <3D918ADC.E4F05524@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Kenneth Farmer wrote:Y >> t >> r9 >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/survey.html  > A > On Netscape 4.79, *both* radio buttons (for some questions) are " > selected, and I can't deselect ! > F > I'll try LYNX... Oh, appears to work, seems my face doesn't fit if I' > happen to use 4.79 of Netscape. Sigh.   I    Nice of them to provide the answer to the first eBusiness CD question.tE    Do they think they'll get an accurate assesment of their marketingn    this way?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:24:13 -0400o! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> , Subject: Re: OpenVMS 25th anniversary survey' Message-ID: <3D91B8FD.C9AAA6F9@vcu.edu>    same here...   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Kenneth Farmer wrote:h > >i > >n: > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/survey.html > A > On Netscape 4.79, *both* radio buttons (for some questions) ared" > selected, and I can't deselect ! > F > I'll try LYNX... Oh, appears to work, seems my face doesn't fit if I' > happen to use 4.79 of Netscape. Sigh.h >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:19:55 GMT , From: "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org>U Subject: Re: Proposal: Retirement of some Components of the Compaq C++ Class  Libraryh2 Message-ID: <%emk9.30$Cx4.585824@news.cpqcorp.net>  3 > > It does not hurt anyone to leave them in place.oG > Would these classes require continued Digital/Compaq/Hp/Intel/whoever  manpower4 > to certify they still work with each new release ?  J Not only to do we need to keep testing them, but when a bug is discovered,D we have to investigate and fix it. We also have to keep updating theL documentation. Porting this code to Linux or iVMS will also not be for free.& In short, there is no free lunch here.  ? > Is C++ staying at "Digital" or has it been donated to Intel ?.  B The C/C++ teams are still at "Digital". We have no plans to leave.   > That is hard to determine.J > The class of people who would be damaged by this are certainly not those% > who keep up to date on comp.os.vms.   I It is imposible to determine with absolute certainty that nobody is using L this code. We are doing everything we can to minimize this risk. comp.os.vms, is only one of many channels being explored.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 03:01:36 -0400h4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com>X Subject: Re: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license), Message-ID: <amrn0l$dj7e$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3D54ED4D.635A97D7@aaa.com...e  = > Isn't there a way to "list" licenses on a particular systemaB > with a clear note saying "Registred" / "Not loaded" / "Loaded" ? >e< > (Well, I supose "Not Registred" isn't an option here :-) ) >n@ > We've been seeing a lot of posts lataly where the real problem@ > was confusion between using "LIC LIST" and/or "SHOW LIC". Very' > easy to make that mistake, I'd say...e   So you are asking for a:  $ LICENSE LIST command that would say:  $  -----------------------------------*  BASIC                        DEC (loaded)  < For those technoids, here is the answer why it is not there.  H Sounds simple, BUT what is in memory and what is on disk are not exactly the same.  What you say?  F When licenses are loaded from your license database file, LMF tries toG combine "like" licenses so there might only be one  in memory record ofeF many licenses.  You might have 5 BASIC with 100 units each for a totalA of 500 units.  LMF does not have one 5 - 100 unit BASIC in memoryS& records, but one 500 in memory record.  > The people who are having understanding the difference betweenD registering the PAK into a license database and loading the PAK intoH memory for use, would be even more confused if we said it was loaded and in fact it was not.c  H LMF could keep track of every PAK loaded, but is it worth increasing the LMF memory usage by 2-3x?o  & Some will say yes, others will say no.  F I would not hold my breath for it.  Getting PAKGEN documented would be more useful.   mark   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 05:22:19 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) X Subject: Re: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license)3 Message-ID: <bciau8N9xI3K@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  c In article <amrn0l$dj7e$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Mark Buda" <buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes:p  H > I would not hold my breath for it.  Getting PAKGEN documented would be > more useful.  C Do you mean beyond the two documents that currently come from CSA ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 06:11:02 -0700e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>CX Subject: RE: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layered product  license)9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEMBFMAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----i5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] , >Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:22 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComG >Subject: Re: Register/load licenses (Was :Register an Hobbyist layeredM >product license)r >i > : >In article <amrn0l$dj7e$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Mark Buda" + ><buda@tabasco.zko.dec.no.spam.com> writes:  >tI >> I would not hold my breath for it.  Getting PAKGEN documented would ben >> more useful.i > D >Do you mean beyond the two documents that currently come from CSA ? >0  E It appears that the CSA version is not quite the same as the licensede: version, which comes with 5 small manuals, AA-X-TE, where ! X= NL42C,NL44C,NL45C,NZ26C,NZ27C.-   >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.m; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002l >  ---d& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 03:58:13 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: TCPIP BIND stuffe, Message-ID: <3D916C87.F2CB90D4@videotron.ca>  G Some time ago, I asked about how one could see the contents of the BINDs% server's cache. Didn't get an answer.   ) Well, I finally found the way to do this:   # MC TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_CONTROL dumpdbr  L this creates the file TCPIP$BIND_SERVER_ZONES_DUMP.DB which contains info on stuff that is cached.    -----g    	 Question:8  K one can use CONVERT CONF BIND to produce the TCPIP$BIND.CONF file from somerE proprietary VMS file used by the TCPIP utility ( TCPIP> SET CONF BINDe /whatever )c  L Is there a way to do the opposite of CONVERT CONF BIND , i.e. something thatF reads the real TCPIP$BIND.CONF file and sets up the proprietary TCPIP> configuration ?e  N I have begun to manually edit the TCPIP$BIND.CONF file to add a few things not included in the TCPIP> utility.   G But once the two configurations start to stray apart, it can cause sometM management problems later on. Is there expectation that the two will manuallynJ be kept in sync ? Or is there a method to flag the TCPIP> configuration so0 that it is obvious that it is no longer in use ?   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 09:21:54 +0000 (UTC) , From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m>4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?/ Message-ID: <amrv7h$945$1@venus.btinternet.com>'   Hi,i    John Gemignani, Jr wrote to JF:-H > Contact me offline.  Tried to send you an email but the address wasn't > what I thought.   ) Please tell everyone else the answer too.c  K My understanding is that the shutdown destroys the local socket so JF woulddL have to move his setmode(create/sockopt/tcpopt) inside the loop. Although heH says he has *not* had to do this. Am I wrong or is it that I'm using UCX V4.1 on VAX/VMS 6.2?  I My experience has been that you can reuse the channel but not the socket.v Please advise.   In summary I say this works:-    $assigny loop:l     $qio create/setsockopt     $qio tcpoptl     $qio io$_accessi     :      :     :     $qio io$_deaccessg endloop: $dassgnh   This doesn't:-L (And I interpret JF's comments to say it *does* and only stops working after# the introduction of io$_acpcontrol)s   $assign. $qio create/setsockopt $qio tcpopt- loop: ,     $qio io$_access    -------> ss$_badparam     :      :     :     $qio io$_deaccesso endloop: $dassgnb  I (JF. If your only problem is after the io$_acpcontrol is moved inside therL loop then why don't you just give bind its own look-up channel. The $qio canI stay in the loop but with its own channel should not intefere with anyonehJ else. At image initialization I assign a channel to _bg: that is only usedH for name resolving and the other (thousands of) sockets stick to network i/o)   Regards Richard Maher.  I PS. Actually preserving the channel would have meant that I would have to J use $qio io$deaccess rather than $dassgn and I've just about had enough ofJ writting ASTs and seeing what's happened each time :-) But *if* the socketC create and option setting can be moved to the mainline then this ism definitely worthwhile!  I PPS. I am using (socket) reuseaddr,full_duplex_close,keep_alive and (tcp)cC probe_idle and I tried various combinations of reuseaddr/share etc.n  G John Gemignani, Jr. <Firstname.Lastname@youknow.where> wrote in messagen' news:3D90B022.465DEABE@youknow.where...  > JF Mezei wrote:e > >C  > > "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:K > > > I know that we used to support this.  The issue here is that you haveD toL > > > get rid of the socket (which was created by the SETMODE).  To do this,K > > > use an IO$_DEACCESS at the end within your loop.  I am not sure if itp is > > > still working or not.r > >lL > > Yep, after the connection I do a IO$DEACCESS. I also tried IO$DEACCESS |8 > > IO$_SHUTDWON with the DSC_ALL flag, but same result. > > H > > The other program I had written was a one shot deal (ran for about 2 weeks J > > collecting info from a remote server) and ran at a time I was atill at 5.0-9o> > > for TCPIP services. But it only did a "bind resolve" once. > >nL > > I still have a node that runs 5.0-9 ( enabling a SLIP line on a VAX with 5.3tH > > crashes the system so that node can't move to 5.3) and I will set my programo= > > back to re-use the channel and see how it behaves on 5.0.t >l > JF,o >iH > Contact me offline.  Tried to send you an email but the address wasn't > what I thought.a >  > John Gemignani [,Jr]$ > Firstname.Lastname@youHPknow.where   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:57:24 +0200e- From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr>D4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?' Message-ID: <3D90D1B2.F9119F5B@Free.fr>    I would say NO. N These devices are genereated and allocated by TCP/IP. I do not "feel" that the/ user can have direct access management on them.e My 2    D.   JF Mezei wrote:t > : > Had an application that worked well doing the following: > " > ASSIGN a channel to TCPIP$DEVICE& > QIO ACPCONTROL resolve the host name9 > QIO SETMODE to set the connection to TCPIP, STREAM etc)f >  > Then, I looped:t( >         IO$M_ACCESS to connect to host >         write a transaction 5 >         read response until remore host disconnects  >         IO$M_DEACCESSs > = > Only at the end would I DASSGN the channel to TCPIP$DEVICE.s > O > Now, I have tried a similar technique, but I moved the ACPCONTROL and SETMODE"N > to inside the loop since a different host is being used at each iteration ofI > the loop. And it fails with a "device is offline" (or something to thatt
 > effect). > N > I have temporarily put a $DASSGN at the end of the loop and a $ASSIGN at the > top and it works.m > O > Was I just lucky with the first program and one should never re-use a channelc > to TCPIP$DEVICE ?o > N > Or is there a way to re-use the channel ? (how does one close the connection > to keep the channel active ?)    -- e2   ------------------------------------------------2 MORANDI Consultants  http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.2 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax: +33 (0)5 6154 19282 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans2 --------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:37:46 GMTo> From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <Firstname.Lastname@youknow.where>4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?- Message-ID: <3D90A036.64BA94D4@youknow.where>t   JF Mezei wrote:t > : > Had an application that worked well doing the following: > " > ASSIGN a channel to TCPIP$DEVICE& > QIO ACPCONTROL resolve the host name9 > QIO SETMODE to set the connection to TCPIP, STREAM etc). >  > Then, I looped: ( >         IO$M_ACCESS to connect to host >         write a transaction05 >         read response until remore host disconnectsn >         IO$M_DEACCESS: > = > Only at the end would I DASSGN the channel to TCPIP$DEVICE.c > O > Now, I have tried a similar technique, but I moved the ACPCONTROL and SETMODEcN > to inside the loop since a different host is being used at each iteration ofI > the loop. And it fails with a "device is offline" (or something to thato
 > effect). > N > I have temporarily put a $DASSGN at the end of the loop and a $ASSIGN at the > top and it works.e > O > Was I just lucky with the first program and one should never re-use a channela > to TCPIP$DEVICE ?w > N > Or is there a way to re-use the channel ? (how does one close the connection > to keep the channel active ?)r      H I know that we used to support this.  The issue here is that you have toF get rid of the socket (which was created by the SETMODE).  To do this,H use an IO$_DEACCESS at the end within your loop.  I am not sure if it is still working or not.-   -Johne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:22:57 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?, Message-ID: <3D90E5B2.7DD6EC7E@videotron.ca>   "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:J > I know that we used to support this.  The issue here is that you have toH > get rid of the socket (which was created by the SETMODE).  To do this,J > use an IO$_DEACCESS at the end within your loop.  I am not sure if it is > still working or not.n  H Yep, after the connection I do a IO$DEACCESS. I also tried IO$DEACCESS |4 IO$_SHUTDWON with the DSC_ALL flag, but same result.  J The other program I had written was a one shot deal (ran for about 2 weeksL collecting info from a remote server) and ran at a time I was atill at 5.0-9: for TCPIP services. But it only did a "bind resolve" once.  L I still have a node that runs 5.0-9 ( enabling a SLIP line on a VAX with 5.3L crashes the system so that node can't move to 5.3) and I will set my program9 back to re-use the channel and see how it behaves on 5.0.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:45:42 GMTi> From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <Firstname.Lastname@youknow.where>4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?- Message-ID: <3D90B022.465DEABE@youknow.where>e   JF Mezei wrote:. >  > "John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:L > > I know that we used to support this.  The issue here is that you have toJ > > get rid of the socket (which was created by the SETMODE).  To do this,L > > use an IO$_DEACCESS at the end within your loop.  I am not sure if it is > > still working or not.e > J > Yep, after the connection I do a IO$DEACCESS. I also tried IO$DEACCESS |6 > IO$_SHUTDWON with the DSC_ALL flag, but same result. > L > The other program I had written was a one shot deal (ran for about 2 weeksN > collecting info from a remote server) and ran at a time I was atill at 5.0-9< > for TCPIP services. But it only did a "bind resolve" once. > N > I still have a node that runs 5.0-9 ( enabling a SLIP line on a VAX with 5.3N > crashes the system so that node can't move to 5.3) and I will set my program; > back to re-use the channel and see how it behaves on 5.0.    JF,n  F Contact me offline.  Tried to send you an email but the address wasn't what I thought.    John Gemignani [,Jr]" Firstname.Lastname@youHPknow.where   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:51:29 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: can a channel to BG: be reused ?, Message-ID: <3D91F7A0.D1BABEE1@videotron.ca>   Richard Maher wrote:+ > Please tell everyone else the answer too.g  L Sorry, my ISP screwed up on a very simple change and this may take 3 days toM re-enable this mailbox. They have been on strike for months now and the scabs ' they hired aren't quit up to snuff yet.r  	 > $assignd > loop:o >     $qio create/setsockopt >     $qio tcpopt  >     $qio io$_accessa >     :      :     : >     $qio io$_deaccess@
 > endloop:  H Where I failed in in the ACP_CONTROL to resolve a host name. My previousJ experience where re-use of the channel was succesful, however, there was aE single "bind resolve" outside the loop and inside the loop, it alwaysi6 connected to the same channel. I will do a test today.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:45:07 GMT_. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: TCPWARE host table loading 2 Message-ID: <TV5k9.5368$142.168775@news.chello.at>   In article <ED06176444B7D511886300D0B70809FD2FDFA7@ecntexchg.boec.city>, "Weiner, Howard (Howie)" <Howiew@ci.portland.or.us> writes: >Question for TCPWARE users:I >When I update the host table (TCPWARE:HOSTS.) with a remote computer and> >it's ip address,vH >I can not figure out how to 'load' the new table. There is some process >somewhere, that loads theK >updated table within about five minutes, allowing me to connect to the newM >networked PC. Can'tD >seem to find out from the manual how to load it. Thanks in advance.  9 1) Better use usenet group VMSNET.NETWORKS.TCP-IP.TCPWAREaK 2) Better use DNS (=centralized/coordinated) instead of HOSTS (distributed)mA 3) HOSTS is said to be read every couple of minutes automaticallybD 	(I use DNS so I've not checked it, IIRC a PSC employee stated this, 	use google to look it up)   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERg% Network and OpenVMS system specialistc E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:51:04 +0000 (UTC)0- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)c! Subject: Tomcat and CSWS (Apache)e. Message-ID: <amspho$7c1$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  G Has anybody run Tomcat with CSWS on OpenVMS/Alpha?  I am having trouble G getting mod_jk to compile.  I think I could do it with the CSWS source.o  / $ cc mod_jserv/incl=APACHE$COMMON:[SRC.INCLUDE]e   #include "os.h"e ^ K %CC-F-NOINCLFILEF, Cannot find file "os.h" specified in #include directive.rC at line number 114 in file APACHE$COMMON:[SRC.INCLUDE]AP_CONFIG.H;1t  2 I'm using Compaq C V6.4-008 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3.  H Tomcat is an allegedly open source web server (although I have found the? Java sources are incomplete) that does JSP among other things. y  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgt> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:15:19 +0100k% From: "Mike Riley" <mike@akita.co.uk>e Subject: UCX security advisory* Message-ID: <amsqsr$5n8$1@uns-a.ucl.ac.uk>  = Just a heads up,  our company has just released a UCX-related = security advisory to bugtraq at al.  There is a patch for the5/ issue available.  The advisory can be found at:0  6 http://www.akita-security.co.uk/VMS/ucx_pop_server.txt   Plenty more to follow.   --- Mike Riley - Security Systems manager @ Akita  http://www.akita-security.co.ukwD --------------------------------------------------------------------C Sales: T:+44(0)1869 320111 F: +44(0)1869250688 E: sales@akita.co.uky/ Tech: T: :+44(0)1869 320111 E: mike@akita.co.ukaD --------------------------------------------------------------------( "Security, performance, cost - pick two"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:14:53 +0200p- From: "Bert de Geus" <bert.de.geus@xs4all.nl>-J Subject: Re: Unexpected <CR> and <FF> after a Setup module of a queue FORM* Message-ID: <amrv2o$9lj$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message3- news:czVG5y3BFLvF@eisner.encompasserve.org...7; > In article <amq3di$o4p$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, "Bert de Geus"(  <bert.de.geus@xs4all.nl> writes: > > AXP/OpenVMS Version V6.1 > >pI > > When I define a FORM with a SETUP module and create the module in thehD > > symbiont library, the symbiont prints (unexpected) <CR> and <FF>
 charactersL > > between the characters from the Setup module and the text of the printed	 > > file.  > >vL > > When I use existing FORMS and Setup modules this problem does not occur.H > > When I extract a Setup module from the library and insert/replace it9 > > unchanged in the same library the problem does occur.e >pI > The default VMS print symbiont, in its infinite wisdom scans your setupiE > modules looking for printable text.  If it finds printable text, itaD > assumes that you wanted that text on a separate page and gives youI > a form feed for free.  If all it finds are escape sequences, it assumesjH > that you're trying to set margins and fonts and such and does not give > you the form feed. >rA > I've been out of the business for a while, but I remember threei
 > approaches.r >o8 > 1.  Put a form feed of your own into the setup module. >RK >     Paradoxically, this sometimes eliminates a form feed from the output.  >a: > 2.  Encapsulate the setup module in a <ESC>P <ESC>\ pair >aF >     But if you have an ANSI printer, this won't generate the desired@ >     output and if you have a non-ANSI printer, it may generateB >     undesired output.  Damned if you do and damned if you don't. >cD > 3.  Include a special escape sequence -- <ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\ I think >h@ >     This is supposed to tell the print symbiont: "print what I2 >     tell you, darn it -- I know what I'm doing". >d= > If memory serves, I had the best success combining 1 and 3.m >.
 > John Briggsn  F The module I extracted and inserted contained only escapes and had theH <ESC>P <ESC>\ around the setup code. Yet the <CR><FF> was emitted by the	 symbiont.hK I added <ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\ in the beginning of the setup code, but still theh problem stayed.u   Bert de Geus   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:39:48 -0400a- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>,J Subject: Re: Unexpected <CR> and <FF> after a Setup module of a queue FORM5 Message-ID: <amslc7$8rs9u$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   8 "Bert de Geus" <bert.de.geus@xs4all.nl> wrote in message$ news:amrv2o$9lj$1@news1.xs4all.nl... >...H > The module I extracted and inserted contained only escapes and had theJ > <ESC>P <ESC>\ around the setup code. Yet the <CR><FF> was emitted by the > symbiont.e >...  E Are you 100% certain that there is no <CR> after the <ESC>\? I recallnJ working with someone with the same problem (might have been VMS 5.7 or 6.1E at that time), he kept telling me that there was no <CR> in the setupgH module. After exchanging phone calls for a few weeks between myself, the? programmer and the user near the printer I finally asked him touF DUMP/DECIMAL/BYTE/RECORD the module. It turned out that there were twoG records in the file that the programmer never saw when typing it to his H screen or editing the file. He deleted the second (blank) record and the problem went away.   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:08:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>D Subject: Various BIND questionsw, Message-ID: <3D90E262.C3FBC740@videotron.ca>   TCPIP Services V5.3r  L -Any plans to support RFC 1712 for the inclusion of GPOS records to indicateJ lat/long of the server ? Or is that still just an RFC and not supported by anyone ?   -If I have hosts n 	dark.chocolate.com, h 	milk.cbocolate.com and  	white.chocolate.com  F I know how to create MX records for each. But how do I set up the bindH database for my domain so that a message to chef@chocolate.com would get& delivered to chef@dark.chocolate.com ?  M The manual doesn't really explain how to use the various RR types. Just givesi one example.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:14:18 GMTi. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: Various BIND questionse2 Message-ID: <el6k9.5771$142.173372@news.chello.at>  \ In article <3D90E262.C3FBC740@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >TCPIP Services V5.3 >eM >-Any plans to support RFC 1712 for the inclusion of GPOS records to indicatemK >lat/long of the server ? Or is that still just an RFC and not supported by 	 >anyone ?o  : Don't know. But I so far haven't seen anyone using this...   >-If I have hosts  >	dark.chocolate.com,  >	milk.cbocolate.com and C >	white.chocolate.com  >vG >I know how to create MX records for each. But how do I set up the bind-I >database for my domain so that a message to chef@chocolate.com would getR' >delivered to chef@dark.chocolate.com ?i   @	IN	MX	5	dark.chocolate.com.9  N >The manual doesn't really explain how to use the various RR types. Just gives
 >one example.   J Why do you enter MX RR for each node ? One MX RR for the domain is usually	 enough...    -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialista E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:52:47 +0000 (UTC)i+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)h9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) + Message-ID: <ampjmf$l24$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <3D8FA7D8.8A93A542@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >David Froble wrote: >> >>priority to stay alive ?w
 >> >>-HP-UX ?i >> >>-Tandem NSK ? >> >>-VMS ?c >> d/ >> Can you explain the math of the above to me?n > L >Lets assume Carly and Curly are convinced that they could convert X% of VMSR >customers to HP-UX and y% to Tandem. Comes a crunch where they have to cut costs. > N >Cut all of the VMS developent and long term, cut VMS support and migrate themP >to your other products. You have as many customers and one fewer OS to support. >gO >Cutting VMS would also offer the opportunityy to cut support for VAX and AlphaaO >faster. And IF they do thiis before IA64 becomes a commercial reality, it also J >means that they don't have to commit to VMS on IA64 for at least 5 years. >rO >I am not saying this will happen. Just that it is probably something that willhL >be considered. The big question of the percentage of customers who would be >lost to IBM and Sun.a  D Your forgetting something. Linux. The future for HP-UX doesn't look  particularly rosy to me.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:40:18 GMTe5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)i3 Message-ID: <CH%j9.25$AB3.1706029@news.cpqcorp.net>h  H Elliott Roper wrote in message <230920022330036982%elliott@yrl.co.uk>...6 >In article <3D8F6153.B4505D8E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >n >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:uK >> > Our primary purpose is to sell HP hardware, software and services.  So  youoH >> > can bet that we will make sure that VMS is targeted at HP hardware. >>F >> "targetted at HP hardware" is one thing. "Marketed to customers" is another. >>H >> Just because it runs on a wide range of hardware doesn't mean that HP will1 >> choose to market VMS in those market segments.m >>  * Uh..  the following was NOT written by me.  J >> Consider the Multia debacle where the Multia was prevented from running VMS L >> for fear that it would cannabalise sales of more expensive hardware. BackL >> then, they used technical ways to prevent VMS from booting on the low endB >> machines. HP may choose other methods (marketing, pricing etc). >0G >To pull two sub-threads together, the way to boot VMS on Multia was tooF >kid it into believing it was a Tadpole. a.k.a "BURN" (for what it didD >to your lap). There was a bit of extra fiddling, but it came close. >n  F The Multia was built as a network appliance.  A fancy Windows TerminalI before it's time.  It was never built to run VMS, and it was built by theyJ terminals group.  The fact that we hacked something together for hobbyist,K doesn't mean it would have succeeded as a real product... even though I andt others did advocate for it.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:42:37 GMTa5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>.9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)u3 Message-ID: <NJ%j9.26$iz3.1639441@news.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D8F9789.F5E35052@videotron.ca>...i >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:-D >> I have no reson to believe that any of these three are being cut. >nI >At the moment, you are probably right. But when push comes to shove, ands HP'sH >stock is battered with calls for Carly to resign, she will be forced to startoI >cutting left and right , play musical chairs with senior VPs, reorganisen etceL >etc (aks: Bobby GP Palmer, the female version). That is what I worry about. > H >Once the honeymoon with Curly is over, the media and wall street casinoK >analysts won't be so kind to Carly.  Already, some analysts today sent oute agH >press release which annouced that they had changed HP to "underperform" (along >with about 5 other stocks).  K I don't believe that VMS will see any cuts for a variety of reasons I can'trL go into.  But it is highly unlikely that any future plans would kill VMS (asC you are implying).  There is more to lose than to gain by doing so.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:44:50 GMT-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>09 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)c3 Message-ID: <SL%j9.27$AB3.1706029@news.cpqcorp.net>D  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3D8FBA0E.8E2DB7D9@fsi.net>...e >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' >>   >>G >> As far as I know, we sell VMS on the DS10.  We sold VMS on a Tadpoler laptop,I! >> but not many people bought it.n >cF >Well, it's that whole "affordability" thing that keeps getting in the
 >way, y'know?i >   0 I don't think *we* set the price on the Tadpole.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:12:34 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)rC Message-ID: <mW1k9.259981$5r1.10919028@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>s  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message8E news:rdeininger-2409020655380001@1cust215.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...37 > In article <3D8FE185.57ECDCD1@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeia' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o >  > >Robert Deininger wrote:L > >> Alpha isn't a corpse yet.  By constantly harping on the loss of EV8 andF > >> beyond, you imply that all the people doing EV68 and EV7 work are "choppedH > >> liver".  I guess all the PA-risc folks are chopped liver too, since that# > >> platform has an announced EOL.e > >.G > >Yes, Alpha is a corpse. If it isn't why did the leaderhsip of Compaqe (witheH > >Curly behind their decision) decide to announce the death of Alpha on June 25e	 > >2001 ?a >4K > Maybe because they couldn't see how to make the alpha business profitables > into the future?  H Just because they may have trouble seeing their hand if they place it inK front of their face doesn't mean that the hand isn't there:  it's merely an7H indication of their blindness, and they had plenty of input to help them6 overcome that handicap had they not been deaf as well.   > Sort of like Pa-risc.   J Sort of the same thing (as HP's engineers tried to tell them a while ago).   ...j  I > >HP confirmed this by stating that all new customers will be steered toc HP-UXrK > >on PArisc initially and then to IA64 when it becomes available.  Pa risc@ may.C > >also be a corpse, but it is being taken care of and fed with newn
 customers. >o! > Well no, HP hasn't stated that.N  G Yes, they have.  Exactly that.  They listed the platforms that would benE aimed at 'new business':  PA-RISC was on the list, and Alpha was not.   &   This is your rewording and spin of aH > single statement by Scott Stallard (or someone on his staff), releasedI > just after the merger.  The statement was subsequently revised to sounds# > even less like your spun version.?  I No, it was not.  The revision you cite above was to the Stallard letter's H suggestion that existing VMS customers would be encouraged to migrate toG HP-UX, not to the indication in HP's general roadmap that Alpha (unlikel: PA-RISC) would be sold only to the existing customer base.  L You really should check out sources before presuming to contradict those who
 have done so.o   ...   H > >Alpha is just completing work that was already almost finished (EV7). >.L > False.  You seriously underestimate the level of effort that has gone, andL > continues to go, into alpha system development.  There was nothing "almostK > finished" about EV7, or the Marvel systems, or the DS25, or the speedups,  > in June 2001.e  J While the amount of work that has gone into getting EV7 ready to ship overA the past 15 months is certainly not trivial, there was definitely J *something* 'almost finished' back then since early EV7 chips were already running VMS on 6/25/01.t  G Additional Alpha development will continue even now, for some period ofnG time.  But it's unquestionably ramping down:  no new design at all, oneeJ process-shrink planned, otherwise relatively minor packaging enhancements.  H It seems likely that the only reason EV7 wasn't canned 15 months ago wasH because even Curly could understand the immediate and devastating effectD that would have had on sales.  Too bad he was too stupid to see thatL similar, though less immediately drastic, effects would have fully justified# continuing EV8 development as well.    >iG > >Oh, and HP has no problems marketing HP-UX. So the uncertainty abouta platformL > >chances for HP-UX is compensated by the fact that HP-UYX is a key product foreB > >HP and stands no fear of being canned. VMS cannot say the same. >   > VMS can and does say the same.  F But Carly doesn't.  And similar assurances from lower levels certainly didn't save Alpha.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:41:15 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)e, Message-ID: <3D90B1C9.4D0CC7F5@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote:aK > Maybe because they couldn't see how to make the alpha business profitable ) > into the future?  Sort of like Pa-risc.s  H If Alpha was so sick, how come HP chose to pair up with Intel because it) didn't think it could beat Alpha alone ? n  I Should HP also cut all the compilers from a platform because they are noteF profitable ? You have to look at the whole platform to decide if it isM profitable or not.  Without a compiler, you have no apps and your platform isIN not viable. Without a good chip, your platform won't compete and isn't viable.  K What has happened with IA64 is that it is Intel that has spread all the FUDeM not the customers. Customers were perfectly happy with and proud of Alpha. ItiI is Intel that managed to convince Compaq and HP that there is no hope foroK proprietary chips and that they must join the Intel ranks. It is Intel thatmN convinced HP and Compaq that IA64 would steamroll over all the rest and becomeA the industry standard chip whose performance will rule the world.e  L And it is Compaq and HP who believed Intel, in the face of all the technicalM reports from ex-Digits that clearly showed that IA64's architecture would notn! be able to compate against Alpha.h  H It is Intel that scared Compaq into dumping Alpha. That is big time FUD.  F > But you are avoiding the point.  Alpha will end in the future, after( > EV79.  You keep saying it is dead now.  J Would you hire someone who is terminally ill for a long term contract ? IfE he's already on your staff, you'll keep him, maybe even give him some M promotion until he can no longer work. After all, he's already trained on howrN yur company works etc etc.  If you've already got alpha and applications, thenL , yes, you can stay until Alpha no longer works. But if you are new and haveM no alpha infratsructure, then it isn't very wise to invest in it now when you"6 know that a couple years from now, it will be useless.  G > Well no, HP hasn't stated that.  This is your rewording and spin of a H > single statement by Scott Stallard (or someone on his staff), releasedI > just after the merger.  The statement was subsequently revised to sound:$ > even less like your spun version.     K Sorry, but Carly and Curly said in the web cast that new customers would berM steered towards HP-UX on PArisc for now, and on IA64 later. And many of their G statements had stuff like "we continue our commitment to existing Alphan) customers" (or something to that effect).   D As for the Scott Stallard statement, if it was a rogue statement notL representative of HP policy, why the hell was it posted on the opfficial webN site and why the hell did Marcello participate on that document ?  And why theC hell was it covertly changed to hide the traces of this without ANYtL explanation ? How are we to know whether this was actual official policy butL HP then realised it was better to keep said policy hidden, OR whether it wasL actual policy, but was later changed without admitting so, or whether it wasN truly Stallard stating something against HP policy and his words not caught by  anyone before they were posted ?  N Let me ask you this: had there been no complaints about the "we expect all VMSN customer to eventually migrate to HP-UX", do you think that the document would have been changed ?h  E > Have you subjected any other sentences from HP to similar scrutiny?1@ > Perhaps there have been one or two other examples of confused,- > conflicting, or muddled statements from HP?8  N Remember that Carly made a point MANY TIMES to stated that the product roadmapM was FULLY defined and that on the day the merger is consumed it would be laidoM out to the public in very clear terms. The Officoal HP roadmap had a one linenN thing that said nothing ("we'll continue Compaq's policy made on june 25" (theK plan of record)"). Accompanied with this was the Scott Stallard memo on theo
 VMS web site.   N How is one supposed to know what is official and what isn't official on the HPM web site ? One has to consider that everything that is posted on the officialeH HP.COM web site represents official corporate policy, unless explicitely stated otherwise.C    L > selling VMS to new customers.  So your portrayal of a monolithic HP policy5 > against VMS is a figment of your own imagination.  e  M Not monolithic. Upper management don't care about VMS, but the VMS managementd at the lower levers do care.    L > False.  You seriously underestimate the level of effort that has gone, andL > continues to go, into alpha system development.  There was nothing "almostK > finished" about EV7, or the Marvel systems, or the DS25, or the speedups,s > in June 2001.i  L Is it correct to state that the EV7 project was begun under Digital ? Or wasH it actually initiated by Compaq ? There is a big difference between justN continuing with status quo on a project and actually initiating a new project.N EV79 is just a speed bump. Intel does those every couple of months on its 80861 so I am not impressed by the Compaq "commitment".a    Consider the following scenario:  M Compaq said nothing on June 25 2001, but reduced the annual budget of the EV8oM team to stretch the project. Some "technical" glitches make the project slidetN by a year. Then, a few years later, with EV7 and EV79 on the market, IA64 doesL become a serious thing. At that point, they can annoucne the canning of EV89> and instead porting from Alpha to an existing and proven IA64.  I The end result wouldn't have been much different. But there wouldn't be ao' multi-year gap where VMS was in a void.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:59:32 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)nC Message-ID: <oC2k9.250930$z91.10889890@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>-  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message:E news:rdeininger-2409020712280001@1cust215.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net... K > In article <g8Sj9.252220$5r1.10450729@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill ' > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:l >hB > >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageH > >news:rdeininger-2309022309180001@1cust236.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net... > >a > >... > >d= > >> I wonder how much a year of EV8 development was costing?  > >tG > >While we don't have precise numbers, we do have a clear upper limit.e >oL > I won't comment on your numbers, because I have heard too many conflictingK > ones and have no reliable way to know which are best.  A throwaway remarkeH > from Marcello or Winkler isn't particularly credible to me, especially > without a lot of context.   G Perhaps instead of just speculating you'd be better advised to read theoG sources of those remarks:  they weren't 'throwaways' (but of course yourD wouldn't know that, not having bothered to check before presuming to	 comment).o  +   I'll just say that the upper limit is notw > "clear" to me. >w > >  It would haveJ > >> been another couple of years from now, or more, before any EV8 incomeL > >> arrived.  Would Compaq have been able to afford to sell EV8 boxes cheap. > >> enough to generate lots of sales?  Dunno. > >AK > >The promise of EV8 was per-processor performance 4 times that of EV7:  ak 2xC > >absolute single-thread performance boost, plus in multi-threadedlK > >(server-style) use another 2x due to (4-way) SMT.  So while the EV8 chiplG > >would not have been cheap (EV7 won't be cheap either - and of courser ItanicG > >is about equally expensive, and will remain so until volumes get fara higherG > >than Alpha's), the ability to use far fewer processors (with minimal.C > >surrounding glue on the boards) to achieve the same level of boxe performancehH > >would have allowed EV8 *systems* to be extremely cost-effective (much moreK > >so than Itanics will be until at least 2005), while the ability to scalel (asFJ > >EV7 systems are said to) to 128-processor mesh-coupled boxes would have made% > >them unassailable on the high end.i >JG > I won't argue against the performance of EV8, if/when they could have-L > gotten it out the door.  SMT was totally unproven in EV8.  I haven't heard> > even rumors that they had anything like a working prototype.  F Of course, since working EV7 silicon had only just appeared, expectingA working EV8 silicon at the same time doesn't seem very realistic.t  I Perhaps you just haven't a clue about how processors are developed.  TheyiK run in simulation long before they run physically, and that's where aspects  like SMT get sorted out.  
   EV7 has hadCK > its share of problems.  It is possible there were scary obstacles looming / > for EV8 that we haven't heard anything about.O  I And the boogie monster may be hiding under your bed:  I'd sleep in my carr for a while if I were you.  K Members of the EV8 team have stated that there were no such scary obstaclescL visible at the time.  The only people who have suggested otherwise are thoseI like you who seem interested in marginalizing the significance of EV8 nows- that it has been consigned to the scrap heap.p   > J > But I was wondering about price, not price/performance.  Many folks hereL > don't want to hear about TCO or prices/performance, but only raw price.  IB > haven't seen any hint that EV8 could have been priced favorably,I > especially on the low end.  EV7 must cost much more/chip than EV68, and * > EV8 would have been even more expensive. >nI > EV7 doesn't bring much to the table for a small system.  EV68 is almost-A > certainly more cost-effective until you get above 4 processors.:  F You seem to be confusing system size with processor count, rather thanK basing it on system capability.  And you're also ignoring what EV7 providesrI for its higher cost that EV6 requires additional surrounding circuitry to-
 implement.  H What EV7 brings to *any* system is its on-chip memory controller and itsL 1.75 MB of on-chip cache.  What EV7 brings to *any MP* system is its on-chipJ routing.  Both reduce surrounding 'glue' chips (including the 8 - 16 MB ofH off-chip cache used with EV6 processors:  when you have EV7's 75 ns mainJ memory latency and a large, fast on-chip cache, off-chip cache that's onlyI about twice as fast as main memory ceases to be cost-effective) and hence G offset the higher cost of the EV7 chip itself.  And both lead to better I per-processor performance than an EV6 package, and hence also help offsettH any higher EV7 chip cost by reducing the number of processors (and hence1 board complexity) required for a given work load.i  L The only intrinsically higher cost in EV7 is its increased chip area - a fewJ hundred dollars per package at most, a good deal of which is offset by theH reduction in supporting chip count that EV7's design makes possible.  IfK cHumPaq actually wanted to pursue the commodity-price-level market it mighteG make sense to continue the EV6 line as a lower-performance, entry-level J product, but for anything above the commodity level the increased marginalF cost of EV7 is no obstacle whatsoever:  the reason EV7 systems will beI expensive is because the market (especially that which cHumPaq chooses to J target with Alpha) allows it, not because of the cost of their components,1 and that situation would have continued with EV8.t   ...w  . > > ...  So *total* EV8/EV9 annual development? > >cost was *at most* about 12% of total Alpha system *profit*.e >uJ > I'm not sure the alpha+unix+vms business has been profitable at any time7 > in the recent past.  Some folks say yes, some say no.   G The former have numbers (from credible Compaq sources) to support their:G claims, while all the latter spout is hot air.  But since believing the J numbers would lead pretty inevitably to the conclusion that Compaq was runC by idiots, you appear to prefer to consider the issue up for grabs.f   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 05:10:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)a3 Message-ID: <JUbApzD0nJHU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3D9136A9.3010600@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:v  P > I'm assuming that the VMS licenses on the Tadpole did cost the mfg something? M > who set those prices?  What were those prices?  Would they let the Tadpole   > compete with other notebooks?o  E Certainly the _license_ prices were not what made the overall Tadpole-C price excessive.  The AlphaBook was a specialized design, priced inm% the same ballpark as their SparcBook.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:09:04 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)wK Message-ID: <rdeininger-2509020709040001@1cust162.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>i  5 In article <3D914274.CF7E4799@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeio% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e    H >What disapoints me in EV7 is that it seems to have been architecturallyK >designed to make it unsuitable for small systems.  I would have hoped that I >architecturally it could have been more versatile, with the first modelsaL >designes for the larger "wildfire" class machines, but allowing a different2 >model of EV7 to be airmed at the smaller systems.  D I think it's a matter of terminology.  EV7 is (mainly) EV6x plus theE onboard memory and inter-processor stuff.  So the model of EV7 that'sA, "aimed at smaller systems" is probably EV68.  J The external chipset used with EV68 only scales up to 4 processors, but upI to that limit it is _very_ fast.  Somewhere between 4 and 8 processors, ayC lot of SMP workloads don't scale well.  This is where the wonderfuliE inter-processor logic built into EV7 starts to pay off.  The Wildwire-J strategy didn't scale well.  The point of EV7 is to allow SMP systems likeE Wildfire and beyond, but with much better scaling behaviour with many? processors.   I >Lets assume for a minute that Digital still existed, Palmer ousted, withoL >Marcello at the helm wanting to make VMS popular from laptops to wildfires.I >Would he really want smaller systems to be "stuck" at EV6x with only theeM >larger systems benefiting from advances in Alpha designs ? In the long term,aI >they would have to develop two architectures: the EV6x track for smallerq7 >systems, and EV7, EV8, EV9 etc for the large systems. c   Yup.  O >Wouldn't it have been better to keep developping the architecture so that eachsO >major iteration could result in chips supporting the whole range ? (eg: an EV7g; >chip for the high end, and an EV7 chip for the lower end).w  E Yes, I expect two related-but-different processor families would work-I best.  Nothing would have prevented EV69, EV610, ..., if that's what theya wanted to name them.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 08:07:36 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)c9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)i3 Message-ID: <3tiS1Zn1beoT@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  \ In article <3D914274.CF7E4799@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Robert Deininger wrote: L >> I don't think I'm confused.  Below 4 processors or so, EV68 plus a fairlyM >> inexpensive chipset could easily outperform the expensive, but "glueless",  >> EV7.  >   # 	Or so?  How about at 4 processors?n  @ 	I don't think so.  Especially if bandwidth or latency sensitive# 	applications.  Which is most apps.S  C 	For instance, a 4 CPU EV7 has worst case memory latency of 140 ns.e> 	Total memory bandwidth ... it should be 25.6 GBytes/sec peak.  A 	I don't think a 4 CPU EV68 comes close to either metric, even ateC 	2 processors it may come closer on bandwidth but won't be close on  	memory latency.   				RobE   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:28:42 -0400-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)-K Message-ID: <rdeininger-2409022328420001@1cust138.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>g  I In article <oC2k9.250930$z91.10889890@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Billc% Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:     M >> I won't comment on your numbers, because I have heard too many conflictingpL >> ones and have no reliable way to know which are best.  A throwaway remarkI >> from Marcello or Winkler isn't particularly credible to me, especially  >> without a lot of context. >cH >Perhaps instead of just speculating you'd be better advised to read theH >sources of those remarks:  they weren't 'throwaways' (but of course youE >wouldn't know that, not having bothered to check before presuming toa
 >comment).  7 I'll type slower, so maybe you'll understand this time.t  I I was not speculating above, but stating my opinions.  I can do that with  some certainty.p  G I HAVE read the Marcello and Winkler statements, or posted reports from  folks who heard spoken stuff.e  I I HAVE seen conflicting numbers, some from you and others here, some from-J non-public sources.  I don't have good enough info to pick the right ones.  H Your Marcello and Winkler numbers differed by about a factor of two, butJ you had an explanation for that.  It wasn't clear whether the explainationI was yours, Winkler's or someone else's, but it doesn't matter to me.  Thet inconsistencies remain.   I And yes, I've seen Mr. Marcello pull statements out of the clear blue sky-B at customer events.  I don't know that I trust him on details.  MyE impression is that his strong suit is strategy, not details.  Thus my.9 statement that remarks aren't necessarily credible TO ME.-   ...-  J >Perhaps you just haven't a clue about how processors are developed.  TheyL >run in simulation long before they run physically, and that's where aspects >like SMT get sorted out.:  G Actually, I do have a clue, and I know people who have much more than a-F clue. Unexpected problems can and do show up, and they can cost a LONG time to solve.   >  EV7 has hadL >> its share of problems.  It is possible there were scary obstacles looming0 >> for EV8 that we haven't heard anything about. >pJ >And the boogie monster may be hiding under your bed:  I'd sleep in my car >for a while if I were you.   I Gee, thanks.  But you are right.  Bad choice of words. Possible technical E obstacles are not really "scary".  (Unless you have to pay for them?)i  L >Members of the EV8 team have stated that there were no such scary obstaclesM >visible at the time.  The only people who have suggested otherwise are thosesJ >like you who seem interested in marginalizing the significance of EV8 now. >that it has been consigned to the scrap heap.  ? As I said above, I've not questioned EV8's eventual performancetC advantages.  But I'm a skeptic by nature, so I do question cost andx) schedule, right up until a product ships.m  J >> EV7 doesn't bring much to the table for a small system.  EV68 is almostB >> certainly more cost-effective until you get above 4 processors. >hG >You seem to be confusing system size with processor count, rather thanmL >basing it on system capability.  And you're also ignoring what EV7 providesJ >for its higher cost that EV6 requires additional surrounding circuitry to >implement.t  I I don't think I'm confused.  Below 4 processors or so, EV68 plus a fairly J inexpensive chipset could easily outperform the expensive, but "glueless",G EV7.  EV7 will scale to high P very well, but at low P, it's advantagesu; will be small.  Perhaps not enough to make up for the cost.n  I >What EV7 brings to *any* system is its on-chip memory controller and itsiM >1.75 MB of on-chip cache.  What EV7 brings to *any MP* system is its on-chip-K >routing.  Both reduce surrounding 'glue' chips (including the 8 - 16 MB ofiI >off-chip cache used with EV6 processors:  when you have EV7's 75 ns mainoK >memory latency and a large, fast on-chip cache, off-chip cache that's onlyeJ >about twice as fast as main memory ceases to be cost-effective) and henceH >offset the higher cost of the EV7 chip itself.  And both lead to betterJ >per-processor performance than an EV6 package, and hence also help offsetI >any higher EV7 chip cost by reducing the number of processors (and hence 2 >board complexity) required for a given work load.  K We'll have to wait and see the price and performance of the Marvel systems.d    M >The only intrinsically higher cost in EV7 is its increased chip area - a fewhK >hundred dollars per package at most, a good deal of which is offset by thePG >reduction in supporting chip count that EV7's design makes possible.  b  P Do you have a source for this "few hundred dollars" estimate?  Or is it a guess?   >IfkL >cHumPaq actually wanted to pursue the commodity-price-level market it mightH >make sense to continue the EV6 line as a lower-performance, entry-level
 >product,   G If you mean EV68 instead of EV6, that seems to be what they are doing. eD They aren't in the same price range at commodity PC stuff, but theseE systems are much cheaper than Wildfires, and likely much cheaper thant
 Marvel.  IMO.e  B >but for anything above the commodity level the increased marginalG >cost of EV7 is no obstacle whatsoever:  the reason EV7 systems will berJ >expensive is because the market (especially that which cHumPaq chooses toK >target with Alpha) allows it, not because of the cost of their components,o2 >and that situation would have continued with EV8.  @ I doubt your cost estimates.  But you are welcome to offer them.    / >> > ...  So *total* EV8/EV9 annual development @ >> >cost was *at most* about 12% of total Alpha system *profit*. >>K >> I'm not sure the alpha+unix+vms business has been profitable at any timeo8 >> in the recent past.  Some folks say yes, some say no. > H >The former have numbers (from credible Compaq sources) to support theirH >claims, while all the latter spout is hot air.  But since believing theK >numbers would lead pretty inevitably to the conclusion that Compaq was run D >by idiots, you appear to prefer to consider the issue up for grabs.   Nice chatting with you.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:21:15 GMT-5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>:9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) 2 Message-ID: <vDjk9.11$Tn4.347236@news.cpqcorp.net>  K Alan Greig wrote in message <8is2pusq0ehf10812vj2ae6ojdc39eb12q@4ax.com>....4 >On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:40:18 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:o >pH >>The Multia was built as a network appliance.  A fancy Windows TerminalK >>before it's time.  It was never built to run VMS, and it was built by the  >oB >Err, I respectfully disagree. That was certainly one of the major? >design goals but, as the name "Multia" itself reflects, it was	G >supposed to have multiple applications. In early customer briefings ithE >was suggested that it would be able to run VMS. When we (at the timecF >University of Abertay, Dundee Scotland) inquired about buying 30 withG >VMS we were told it would not be supported. When we said "then we willw; >run it unsupported" we were told that the machine would behF >intentionally "crippled" so as not to run VMS. In eventual productionE >I don't think the fusible link on the EV4 was ever actually blown toyF >prevent it running VMS style memory management but this was intended. >   H You are mixing two different things.  The concept of a fuseable link wasL chip related, and designed to lock out UNIX and VMS from NT systems.  It was never done.(  L The Multia was *never* designed to be ANYTHING but what it was - a Windows/XK terminal.  Because it was ahead of it's time, it ended up being 98% of whattL a cheap workstation would contain.  The desktop group *never* intended it toJ be a general purpose machine.  Whoever suggested that it might run VMS wasG engaging in wishful thinking.  The fact VMS ran on it at all was a side K effect of the system being based on something close to what we did support,o1 and an engineer who made it work on his own time.e  L >>terminals group.  The fact that we hacked something together for hobbyist,I >>doesn't mean it would have succeeded as a real product... even though It and  >>others did advocate for it.g >C& >But by no accident you were outvoted. >y  J It was a day late and a dollar short.  There was no structure setup to getJ this system sold as something other than what it was, and it competed withH the workstation group.  By the time we were trying to do something, they9 were being dumped on the market cheap to get rid of them.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:00:23 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>L9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) 5 Message-ID: <amsmj5$8p7o8$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:ZOkk9.24$%k4.282694@news.cpqcorp.net... >...I > It never was on any plans ever for VMS.  Nor aside from a few engineers F > suggesting it, do I recall anyone in management or the business side > requesting it. >...  C OK, there were never any plans for it, but the first time I saw the.J announcement that this new thing was coming it was described as being ableK to run VMS and NT. I remember telling my boss that we wanted to buy a bunch,K of these with VMS licenses. I also remember asking DEC for more informationVF a few weeks later only to be told that VMS was not an option. I do notF recall now if that announcement was in a magazine article or if it wasI something DEC sent me, but it was in print because I remember reading thee? paragraph to the person who told me that VMS was not available.O   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.a   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 11:20:43 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)a3 Message-ID: <KskQKO79lWYt@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  a In article <9z2iPDEyR7Kg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:or > In article <oC2k9.250930$z91.10889890@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    	Correction:   > E > 	than 75 ns memory access.  But maybe more impressive would be the  D > 	2000 MByte "L3" that is 75 ns local and 100 ns remote access withC > 	an average access of 95 ns, 4 times larger than Power4 512 MByted > 	L3 and just as fast.- >    	Make that:-  D  	than 75 ns memory access.  But maybe more impressive would be the C  	2000 MByte "L3" that is 75 ns local and 140 ns remote access with C  	an average access of 127 ns, 4 times larger than Power4 512 MBytep  	L3 and nearly as fast.     				Rob8   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 11:56:33 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) 3 Message-ID: <TK0XZVfyNMP+@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  n In article <o3kk9.47806$q41.40757@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > H > Which probably means that the relative sales numbers of Sparcbooks vs.I > Tadpole/VMS systems was really a reflection of the underlying marketingrK > policies of SunOS/Solaris and VMS by Sun and Digital/Compaq respectively.eM > The market simply voted with their wallets based on their perception of the   > future of each of those os'es. > L > Tadpole certainly didn't build either machine substantially lesser/greater. > in quality from a manufacturing perspective.  D    Tadpole built non-Intel laptops for people who really had to haveE    a non-Intel processor in a laptop.  Then they sold them at a price--    meant for people who really had to have...0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:59:19 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f, Subject: Re: VMS system accounts description, Message-ID: <3D90C410.CE957C36@videotron.ca>   Hector Villafuerte wrote:s? > "If you don't know what it does, remove it", so my task is tooA > prevent making the system inoperable because "the administrator>+ > removed accounts that audit told him to"!i  E the authorize utility does show the dates of last login (interactive,nN non-interactive). This would give you a good idea of whether the account is in use or not.-   CAVEAT:u  M If your system has been up for a year, then you may find some acocunts with a:J last login over a year ago, it just means that the process was started and) just kept on going and going and going...s  ? Some accounts are placeholders for security/ownership of files.8  L your should do a DIR disk:[000000...]*.*/owner=username on all drives on theM system before removing that username. You want to know what file would "lose"nC an owner.  (files belong to a UIC, that UIC will remain in the filesL information, but should the UIC be given to another User later on, that user! will have access to those files).V  N The safest bet is to use SYSUAF> MOD username /FLAG=DISUSER on those you thinkM could be removed. The account remains there but is unusable. Should a problemsA arise, it is then simpler to reactivate the account since all its  parameters/properties remain.e  A The TCPIP$ accounts belong to the TCPIP software. You should finda7 documentation on their role in the TCPIP documentation.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:34:29 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e, Subject: Re: VMS system accounts description, Message-ID: <3D90CC4C.B9EA9E51@videotron.ca>   "kenrbnsn1@rcn.com" wrote:D > No, the answer to that problem is to remove the incompetent SystemK > Administrator and get one that know what he is doing. There are plenty ofr? > them out in the work force who could use a job right now. :-)   I An auditor must *assume* he is dealing with an incompetant and fraudulanti system manager.I   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:39:07 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?. Message-ID: <3D905CEB.75C5A04E@mindspring.com>   Bill Todd wrote:   > > foul-mouthed bigot*. >SL > I'm not aware of significant issues in these last two areas for either one- > of them, but could easily have missed them.m  5 I was referring to the the discussion Bush and Cheneyh3 had in reference to Adam Clymer, the New Your Timesn1 reporter when they believed they were "off-mike":T  +   Bush:  "There's Adam Clymer, major leaguel,            asshole from The New York Times."     Cheney: "Oh yeah, big time."   References:t  C   http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=9874wG   http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/index.htmlc    . Folks may not have read about this because our5 allegedly-liberal media did a pretty effective job ofn1 under-reporting essentially *ALL* of the negative 1 stories that were circulating about Bush prior toe0 the 2000 Selection. (For example, with regard to& corruption, Google for "Funeralgate".)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:50:03 -0400u2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?. Message-ID: <3D905F7B.4CEA2ADB@mindspring.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:g  K > So, are you contributing to the President Daschle/Vice President Hillary!n > Team?t  / My campaign contributions, at or above the $250 - reporting threshold, are publicly visible at:s     http://www.opensecrets.org/s   So are everyone else's.h  0 But I'll save you the trouble: Nope, didn't give9 a dime to Daschle. Yup, gave a bunch of money to Hillary.s8 Yup, gave a bunch of money to Gore and Bill before that.7 This year, I've already given to the Planned Parenthoodh4 PAC and will be donating to HILPAC and EMILY's List.3 (None of those PAC donations may meet the reporting ; threshold.) I'll also be making direct donations to McBridel< (in Florida) as well as all four major Democratic candidates running in New Hampshire.o  5 I've also given money to Sarah Brady's PAC, PFAW, andH9 a bunch of other lefty causes, some local, some national.e   Meanwhile...  - Open Secrets is especially useful for findingt1 out where Corporations are spending their bribes,c6 err, I mean campaign contributions. When, for example,7 the Republicans try to obfuscate facts by saying "Well,e1 the Democrats got Enron money too!", Open Secretsm2 quickly reveals just what the ratio of Republican/ Democratic donations were.    ? > Thanks for offering prima facie evidence that the USA doesn'te( > have the market cornered on stupidity!  ) Running short of factual arguments again?o   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:01:27 -0400i2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?. Message-ID: <3D906227.4E0029CE@mindspring.com>   Robert Deininger wrote:o  > > In article <3D8F21E6.51E9A59@mindspring.com>, Atlant Schmidt& > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote: > 3 > >After a 224 year run, American democracy died onl0 > >December 12th, 2000 when the US Supreme Court8 > >decided it was more important to prevent a Republican8 > >riot than to count votes. As a result, we installed a8 > >corrupt, ignorant, amoral, deserting (from-the-armed-4 > >forces), drunk, cocaine-abusing, pretzel-inhaling9 > >foul-mouthed bigot* as the "leader of the free world". 9 > >This has had the predictable ripple effects throughouta > >the world economy.  > H > Hey, you ignorant jerk.  Did you even bother to read the Supreme Court% > decision?  Or the Florida statutes?d  
 Yes, did you?c  1 The Florida courts were about to rule that all ofl0 those "Overvotes" where the specific problem was2 that a punched/filled-in/whatever vote for Al Gore, was nullified by a write-in vote for Al Gore' *MUST BE ACCEPTED* because there was noe1 doubt on these ballots about "the clear intent of9, the voter". This was several THOUSAND votes.) (As you recall, Bush "won" by 537 votes).l  , So there was no question that Gore was about+ to win the recount. So the US Supreme Court / took the interesting position that counting thel( votes would have been damaging to George, W. Bush and they stopped the recount. Damage3 to the rights of the voters of the State of Floridah) apparently wasn't very important to them.a  / One of the more curious aspects of this is thate( a Supreme Court that has been famous for+ upholding "State's Rights" (usually a cover * for racism, etc.) suddenly disregarded all of Florida's state's rights.  + Another curious aspect was that the Supremeo1 Courst explicitly stated that this decision would.3 not establish a precedent. I think that was a clear 3 clue as to how bogus the decision was, and the factr. that they knew they might someday have to vote- the other way if/when a Democrat advances the ( exact same claims that G Dubya advanced.  . There are many other incidents I can cite from6 the 2000 Selection but this one incident is sufficient4 to show that, had all legal votes been counted, Gore1 would have won in FLorida and thus in the nation.o  7 There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that historiansb. will decide that the 2000 election was stolen.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:12:16 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?8 Message-ID: <evv0pu49s7pj3ha6cp5omiqn0tuqufb3ru@4ax.com>  F On 24 Sep 2002 07:33:08 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  ] >In article <3D8FC233.5DE3071A@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >> nQ >> Is there anything preventing Bill Clinton from being Vice President ? I though + >> only the president had term limitations.n >lK >   The Constitution.  Who would be president if Oliver North decided to go = >   once again above and beyond the law and nock off Hillary?a >cK >   From Amendment XII:  "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the  K >   office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the i >   United States."e  F But as someone else has already pointed out the 2 terms amendment onlyC prevents someone from being *elected* to the post of president moremA than twice. It does not appear to prevent a VP from automatically E becoming president through a procedure other than election even if he"8 has already been elected to the post of president twice.  D I'm fairly sure I recall some constitutional experts confirming this5 on CNN some time ago. Could be misremembering though.s -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:55:15 -0400c2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?. Message-ID: <3D90C323.A18AE207@mindspring.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:o  N > Did Shrub desert from the armed forces? Thought he was an F-16 driver in theD > Air National Guard. That is, when he saw fit to show up and drive.   Yes, he deserted.   ) After he was transfered to Alabama (so het. could run some shmoes campaign for office), he- simply quit showing up. That is, he went AWOLo- and, as I understand it, was AWOL long enoughu6 that he could have been court martialed for dessertion. had anyone cared. Because he was a Bush child,
 no one cared.t  3 Now, of course, Major General Daniel James (who wast; head of the Texas National Guard at the time of the allegedt5 scrubbing of George W. Bush's National Guard records)e2 was appointed by pResident Bush to be commander of4 the nation's Air National Guard. I'm sure there's no  connection between these events.   References:n     http://awol.gq.nu/4dawol.htm'   http://www.talion.com/georgebush.htmlh;   http://www.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=Bush%20Scandals     - Bush also was removed from flight status when7! he failed to take a medical exam:a  '   http://www.talion.com/suspension.htmlo  . It is suspected that the medical problem was a$ foreign substance stuck up his nose.   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Sep 2002 11:56:14 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?5 Message-ID: <ams88t$8isgn$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  ? In article <SZak9.433407$_91.608312@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,e4 	"Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: > K > So now you've got me interested: the unit I was in (Army Security Agency,eJ > Top Secret Crypto/SI/Codeword, etc) it wouldn't be more than a couple of9 > days until an AWOL escalated to a full-scale desertion.g  F Sorry Terry, but no.  The length of time before AWOL becomes desertionG is fixed and not open to arbitrary application on a case by case basis.iD If your really interested I can look up what specifically makes AWOLC become desertion. (I believe the time is 30 days, but there cold beiE particular actions like telling someone you never intend to come backuG that could speed that up.  When I was at Ft. Hood we had a guy go AWOL. D Although he was located in less than two weeks it was decided to notB pick him up until after the 30 day period so he could be tried forE desertion rather than AWOL.  The latter would have garnered a slap onhD the wrist while the former resulted in hard time at Ft. Leavenworth.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 04:30:42 GMTv1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>E0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?? Message-ID: <SZak9.433407$_91.608312@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>r  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messager( news:3D90C323.A18AE207@mindspring.com... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:d >tL > > Did Shrub desert from the armed forces? Thought he was an F-16 driver in thecF > > Air National Guard. That is, when he saw fit to show up and drive. >l > Yes, he deserted.u > + > After he was transfered to Alabama (so het0 > could run some shmoes campaign for office), he/ > simply quit showing up. That is, he went AWOLe/ > and, as I understand it, was AWOL long enoughe8 > that he could have been court martialed for dessertion0 > had anyone cared. Because he was a Bush child, > no one cared.y > 5 > Now, of course, Major General Daniel James (who wass= > head of the Texas National Guard at the time of the alleged 7 > scrubbing of George W. Bush's National Guard records)c4 > was appointed by pResident Bush to be commander of6 > the nation's Air National Guard. I'm sure there's no" > connection between these events.  > But of course not! Pure coincidence. Happens all the time. ;-}  I So now you've got me interested: the unit I was in (Army Security Agency,dH Top Secret Crypto/SI/Codeword, etc) it wouldn't be more than a couple of7 days until an AWOL escalated to a full-scale desertion.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:32:47 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t0 Subject: Re: What is happening to the industry ?? Message-ID: <zGkk9.439511$_91.616056@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>e  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D914CE2.590EEB68@videotron.ca...' > By the way, IBM is now down to $63.00  >sI > Granted, this is more due to the EDS statement with the casino analystst justK > betting that IBM will have equally bad news. But if IBM does announce badn+ > news, how does this bode for HP's sales ?  > L > How long of a honeymoon will Carly and Curly get before they need to start to- > become accountable for their merger folly ?   L Three days. Then you can purchase OpenVMS and Alpha and have affordable $500. VSM-based EV8 systems on the market next week.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:02:26 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPeda, Message-ID: <3D90B6BF.69BCA634@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:= > JavaScript Error: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/, line 814:n >  > syntax error.g >  >         function D8(d) {  , I don't have that problem. Netscape 4.7 Mac.  J Oh, I do leave Javascript turned off  by default and only activate it when necessary. :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:06:23 -0400p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed', Message-ID: <3D90B7AC.3901FDC4@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:sF > While I agree, I think the crucial point here is that the VAX is notC > IEEE.  Thus, this is really a no-win situation, even if a port of 8 > Mozilla for the VAX had been desired by DEC/Compaq/HP.  J This may be an issue for Java because of Java's abilities to exchange dataK with the outside world, but it should not be an issue for Javascript. How acL number is represented internally is moot for Javascript. And I would ventureM that in the case of Java, it should be possible to get it running on VAX withiN the caveat that apps that exchange floating point numbers with the rest of the world may not function.e    , But I'd settle for PPP support on VAX first.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:24:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed-3 Message-ID: <PSqgAEtBecW7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3D90B7AC.3901FDC4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Phillip Helbig wrote:eG >> While I agree, I think the crucial point here is that the VAX is not)D >> IEEE.  Thus, this is really a no-win situation, even if a port of9 >> Mozilla for the VAX had been desired by DEC/Compaq/HP.S > L > This may be an issue for Java because of Java's abilities to exchange dataG > with the outside world, but it should not be an issue for Javascript.b  F    Since Netscape 3 on VAX does support JavaScript, that kind of shows4    it's not an issue.  Only Java support is missing.  G    But that doesn't address the simple ignorance of HP putting up pages C    for VMS customers that a lot of VMS customers can't read withouttE    beating their way through the OK buttins on all the error windows.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:20:48 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i1 Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com has been HPed:+ Message-ID: <3D90C918.4E5CEAE@videotron.ca>a   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:B > At best, Netscape 3 does a marginal job of supporting the HTML 3J > specification which leaves the 4.0 specification flapping in the breeze.  K The HTML philosphy is for any browser to be able to display the contents its: understands and ignore the features it doesn't understand.  I With this in mind, when you code a page, it should be possible to see thetK contents. However, too many web sites introduce javascript that changes the S contents (such as hierachical menus) and thus older browsers can't use those pages.-  J The worse offenders are those who purposefully create frames with srollingM bares DISABLED (instead of automatic) to make sure their page looks cool. ButeG when you use it from a smaller screen or PDA, the page becomes unusableuQ because you cannot scroll to the buttons/links that get you where you need to go.v  G There are two corporations where I have now bookmarked to the "sitemap"vN instead of the main page. Gets me a simple , much faster page from which I canL go to where I need to go. They are Boeing and Air Canada. In the case of AirN Canada, they have fancy Javascript stuff on the front page which does not workK on my browser and I cannot click on a simple button to get to the schedulesnM because they chose to implement fancy javascript for a simple button, and dida a poor job at that.u  M When large corporations such as Boeing and Air Canada start to have web sites N that are permanently crippled (as opposed to a bug that gets fixed), that says+ a lot about how ignorant managers would be.e  N I know that if I were to commission a web page from some web design company, IK would bring my own old mac to the demo and ask them to turn off their fancylK 2ghz machine with 24" display and run their demo on my slow 133mhz mac with L only a 640-480 screen.  To me, that would be a good test of whether they did their job right or wrong.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:42:06 +0000 (UTC)h+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)t; Subject: Re: [OT] Could Philip Zimmermann work for the CIA?u+ Message-ID: <ampj2e$l24$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  W In article <amnqhl$ic6$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, "Leo Demers" <leo_dot_demers@HP.COM> writes:w >>Good for you, Leo! >> >>Glenn Everhart >sF > But I do know that we have a working version of a port of GnuPG 0.97I >running on VMS and we are planning on offering it as an OpenSource tools K >project.  GnuPG just released a new version, V1.2 (big version jump there)VK >so we will hold off and take a look at what it'll take to upgrade the portpL >to Version 1.2.  We seem to have incredible timing with OpenSource SecurityI >ports,  Just after we submitted the CD with the OpenSSL port of 0.96b astM >"OpenSSL for VMS 1.0" the security patches were announced, so we had to makemJ >OpenSSL 1.0-A available with the security patches in it via the web site.M >Now we were just getting ready to put GnuPG 0.97 out on the OpenSource Tools  >site and GnuPG releases V1.2.K > The port will eventually make it out to the OpenSource Tools web site andiJ >will be on the OpenSource Tools CD with the next release of OpenVMS. BothM >the web site and the CD releases will include the sources so it'll be usableu5 >by all VMS customers, hobbyist and commercial alike.  >cM >FYI: I'll have a working copy of the 097 port at the Security Demo in the HPaK >booth at HP ETS. I'll also be showing the other security feature availablesD >with 7.3-1 including Kerberos telnet, Stunnel, SYS$ACM, GnuPG and a
 >surprise. >c >- Leo  J Since the 097 port is working any chance of getting it put up somewhere soC we can download and use it now rather than waiting for the 1.2 port N (or are there major security issues with 0.97 which mean it shouldn't be used) ?:  L By the way. With the Kerberos support I see mention of Kerberised Telnet but- is there a Kerberised FTP server and client ?e  
 David Webb VMs and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.530 ************************