1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 30 Sep 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 540       Contents:C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) C Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT) 0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"...0 Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"...P Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with # Re: Boycott The Body Shop !!!  9652  CARTS LUG mtg 2-OCT-2002; Re: Celera Throws Compaq Servers In Trash - Forbes Magazine ; Re: Celera Throws Compaq Servers In Trash - Forbes Magazine  Re: China clones Alpha ? Re: China clones Alpha ? Re: China clones Alpha ?. difficulty in using PC based open VMS debugger! Re: Errors running Oracle7 on VMS  RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist License RE: Hobbyist LicenseP Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMS   MultisessP Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMSMultisessionP Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMSMultisession Re: Imagemagick  5.4.9 Re: Monitor over frequency Nameserver resolving.  Re: Newcomers to VMS' Re: Status of the CDA converter library ' Re: Status of the CDA converter library  Re: Suggestion for SEARCH  Re: Suggestion for SEARCH  RE: Suggestion for SEARCH  Re: Suggestion for SEARCH  RE: Suggestion for SEARCH  RE: Suggestion for SEARCH  Re: UCX security advisory # Re: Upgrade from OpenVMS 6.2 to 7.2 0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)0 Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)9 Re: VMS73_LAN-V0300 Alpha V7.3 LAN ECO;  bit of good news ! Re: WASD Security Advisory Issued 6 Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX6 Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX6 RE: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX6 Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX6 Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX6 Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)  Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)  Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:09:24 GMT % From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)& Message-ID: <H38Jno.B9x@world.std.com>  9 In article <9GOl9.1784$Qh1.312447@news20.bellglobal.com>, ( Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  M > Quote from article: The more powerful Itanium 2 was introduced in July, but N > market researchers now project that Itanium will garner less than 10 percentK > of the market for server computing as far ahead as 2007. Intel executives $ > have not disputed those forecasts.M > I'll bet execs wished they hadn't killed Alpha-EV8 so soon. Of course, they 4 > probably won't be around to take the heat in 2007.  E It really is a shame that once Intel got ahold of the Alpha that they I didn't just drop IA64 and try to develop the Alpha further.  It's already I a perfectly good 64-bit processor.  Given how far that Intel have dragged I the piece of garbage X86, they certainly ought to be able to do something + phenomenal with the cleanly designed Alpha.   J It seems like an awfully big waste of effort to redevelop so much softwareG and supporting hardware for a completely new and unproven architecture. I I'm sure it made sense many years ago when the project first started, but G someone should've reassessed the need for it in the context of the more G recent state of the industry.  Hell, Microsoft is already familiar with H Alpha, so I can't imagine they'd have too many issues porting the latestE version of Windows to it instead of IA64.  Even from HP's standpoint, G wouldn't it be easier for them to leave their high-end servers on Alpha F and migrate their low-end servers to Alpha as well?  Sure Intel and HPG have both invested a lot of money in IA64, but I have to wonder if they E won't end up spending even more in the process of porting software to ( it--some of which already runs on Alpha.  G The sad part about this whole mess is that Intel and HP have spent past I year beating down this processor which, quite possibly, could've provided D both of them a much faster and cheaper way to dominate the market of 64-bit computing.   B Maybe there's still hope.  All Intel would have to do is pull someI marketing magic and say that the "IA" in IA64 stands for "Intel Alpha."    And I'm only half-joking.    -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----->       IBM 1130 Club Motto:  "Computer People Are Happy People"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 03:24:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT), Message-ID: <3D97FC43.F294E839@videotron.ca>   Brian Chase wrote:D > Maybe there's still hope.  All Intel would have to do is pull someI > marketing magic and say that the "IA" in IA64 stands for "Intel Alpha."  > And I'm only half-joking.   N Intel has sunk way too much money into IA64 to claim defeat. There is too muchI at stake here. Intel will have to find a honourable way out of this mess.   J The end result will probably be an "industry standard" 64 bit 8086 that isH mass produced, and HP being responsible for continued development of itsH proprietary IA64 chip that Intel will fab on its behalf. You'll have theN bloated IA64 at the low end of proprietary chips, followed by Sparc and at the8 very top, the one chip made by a serious company: Power.    K Rewind to june 24 2001. HP annouces it buys Compaq and will consolidate all N platforms on ALPHA. The tandem port to Alpha continues, and HP would only needK to move bits and pieces of HP-UX to Tru64 and rename Tru64. No need to wait N for IA64. HP would not have had a 3 years of limbo without a viable product as is the case now.  N I don't think it would be worth it to get Windows back onto Alpha. There is noG real advantage in doing so, since wintel customers aren't interested in N quality or high performance. They just want commodity junk in a nice cabinet. M Compaq got into a lot of trouble because of its proprietary keyboards etc. It L is pointless to try to produce "proprietary" windows stuff. Let the industryH decide when it moves from 8086 to AMD's 64's bit version of the 8086 and follow that.  H But for your real systems, then you really focus on giving customers theL technological advantage that differentiates your product from IBM and SUN's.6 And that is where Alpha would have done a lot of good.    M Windows in IA64 will flop for the same reason it flopped on Alpha: folks want N a commodity box that runs all the software. They want to be comptible with theD rest of the world. They don't want a faster machine or a better one.  I And HP,s IA64 products will flop because the performance of the chip just ' won't give HP an edge over IBM and SUN.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:08:37 GMT & From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com>L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)) Message-ID: <3D984CC3.A5DA59E8@attbi.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > M > Thanks for the pointer. Ironically, the NYtimes no longer works on Netscape / > 4.76 (MAC), I just stare at a blank page. ...   A Interesting that if fails with a MAC but it works with Nets v4.76  on my WinDuhs (W98SE) PC.   + Did C&C give some MACicide advice to Apple?  --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:30:48 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)C Message-ID: <seZl9.324335$216.13663816@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message = news:bPFl9.363298$5r1.16859132@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...  > (URL below wraps)  >  > L http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/29/technology/circuits/29CHIP.html?ex=1033876" > 800&en=573e03cf736d51a5&ei=5062&  E Rats - looks as if they make you register for it after it's no longer I current.  So I'll reproduce it below for the convenience of those who may  find that difficult:     September 29, 2002 Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy  By JOHN MARKOFF and STEVE LOHR    G GOOGLE - the Internet's leading search engine, powered by an arsenal of H computers with 15,000 microprocessors - should be a premier customer for! Intel's new Itanium 2 super-chip.   K Itanium, a joint project of Intel and Hewlett-Packard, Silicon Valley's two E largest companies, has been in the laboratory for more than a decade. F Itanium is designed to excel at a sweeping array of advanced computingD tasks, from solving grand scientific challenges to rendering complexF graphics to slicing through vast databases. With more than 200 millionJ transistors on each chip, it is designed to process data in big bites - 64' bits, in chipspeak - at blazing speeds.   K But Google isn't buying. And that is an ominous sign for what is one of the K longest-running and most expensive computing projects in history - exceeded D only by I.B.M.'s bet-the-company gamble on its 360 mainframes, which eventually succeeded.   K For Intel, Itanium's failure would be a painful black eye, a setback in its D heavily financed assault on the corporate computing world beyond theI personal computer. For its partner, Hewlett-Packard, the chip venture, if H anything, is even more important. Exploiting the Itanium opportunity wasH crucial to the thinking behind Hewlett-Packard's $19 billion merger thisF year with Compaq Computer. If Itanium fails, it will be a severe blow.  F And if Itanium flops, Silicon Valley's psyche may well be shaken, too.K Projects like Itanium are the valley's equivalent of going to the moon. Big G budgets, big egos and a near-religious commitment to the "right way" to F design a computer are involved. With Silicon Valley mired in its worstJ recession, some technologists there say that Itanium may be the industry's& last such huge bet on computer design.  L Intel still says its commitment to Itanium is unwavering. Its smaller rival,J Advanced Micro Devices, has an alternative to Itanium that computer makersL are seriously considering. And Intel has a fallback project, called Yamhill,D in case Itanium founders. But mainly, Intel is redoubling its bet on Itanium.  L It has taken an entire decade, an estimated $5 billion and teams of hundredsF of engineers from the two companies to bring the first Itanium chip toE market. As the struggles and costs mount for the companies, skeptical L technologists say Itanium now has the hallmarks of a bloated project in deepC trouble. It is already four years behind schedule, emerging just as 6 companies are in no mood to spend money on technology.  E "Every big computing disaster has come from taking too many ideas and H putting them in one place, and the Itanium is exactly that," said Gordon= Bell, a veteran computer designer and a Microsoft researcher.   K INCREASINGLY, Intel is facing the risk that it has chosen the wrong path to K high-performance computing. It may have looked backward as it developed the ; microchip equivalent of the behemoth computers of the past.   K Eric Schmidt, the computer scientist who is chief executive of Google, told L a gathering of chip designers at Stanford last month that the computer worldJ might now be headed in a new direction. In his vision of the future, smallK and inexpensive processors will act as Lego-style building blocks for a new J class of vast data centers, which will increasingly displace the old-style6 mainframe and server computing of the 1980's and 90's.  J It turns out, Dr. Schmidt told the audience, that what matters most to theH computer designers at Google is not speed but power - low power, because7 data centers can consume as much electricity as a city.   G If power efficiency does indeed trump processing speed, everything that J Intel and Hewlett-Packard have done to pack raw power into the 221 millionL transistors of the new Itanium 2 could now be a handicap. The chip, which isH as large as a silver dollar and whose 130 watts of power dissipation areG enough to fry the proverbial egg, is not even a contender in the Google G universe. "We're incredibly, incredibly power sensitive, and we've been / talking to Intel about that," Dr. Schmidt said.   J So far, Intel and Hewlett-Packard have been hard-pressed to prove they areJ on the right track. The Itanium was announced in 1994 as a joint effort toJ design a processor for the world of large computing systems, like servers, mainframes and supercomputers.  K The project, however, has been beset by repeated delays. Originally planned G to arrive in late 1997, the chip did not arrive commercially until last  year.   G Worse, the first version of Itanium, code-named Merced, proved to be an K embarrassing dud - its performance trailing even Intel's own 32-bit Pentium L chips, let alone the rival chips it is intended to beat, like I.B.M.'s Power9 series or Sun Microsystems' Ultrasparc 64-bit processors.   I Itanium is Intel's effort to apply the economics of the personal computer I business, with its lower costs of mass production and swift technological A improvement, to the lucrative market for computer data centers of H corporations and government. I.B.M. and Sun Microsystems, with their bigE server computers and 64-bit chips, are the leaders in the data center L market - and the target of Intel and its partners from the personal computer< industry, like Hewlett-Packard, Dell Computer and Microsoft.  J The more powerful Itanium 2 was introduced in July, but market researchersK now project that Itanium will garner less than 10 percent of the market for I server computing as far ahead as 2007. Intel executives have not disputed  those forecasts.  L Yet Michael J. Fister, the veteran Intel manager who was called in to rescueH the Itanium project three years ago, says the project has finally turnedI around. A little patience may be needed, he says, but what lies ahead for 4 Itanium is opportunity, not insurmountable problems.  B Raised in Cincinnati and educated as an electrical engineer at theI University of Cincinnati, Mr. Fister has worked at Intel for 15 years and L was one of the managers behind Intel's successful 32-bit Pentium server lineE in the 1990's. He was chosen two years ago by Intel's chief, Craig R. K Barrett, and its president, Paul S. Otellini, to reset the Itanium project.   H "Mike was the obvious choice," Mr. Otellini said. "He is one of our mostJ seasoned design managers and an expert on high-end computer architecture."  L Intel has long been known as a magnet for sharp, hard-driving engineers, butE Mr. Fister was a standout when he arrived in the 1980's, according to . several people who worked at the company then.  K "I would always rely on him when I had a problem," said Jim Lally, a former F Intel executive and now a partner at the venture capital firm Kleiner,H Perkins, Caufield & Byers. "He would get it done and get it done right."  I Mr. Fister says Itanium is now on track. When Itanium 2 becomes available J widely next year, he said, it will have better performance than any of theI competing 64-bit chips. That, he added, will make up for all of Itanium's  earlier failings.   H This month, at the Intel Developer Forum in San Jose, Calif., Mr. FisterL detailed a road map for two new generations of Itaniums in 2003 and 2004. HeF spoke about a lower-power version of Itanium that might come closer toH meeting Google's computing challenge. He even bragged about "10 tons" ofH Itanium-based computers the company was demonstrating at the conference.  K He acknowledged that Intel had spent too much time worrying whether its new J 64-bit design would cannibalize its thriving Pentium processor market. NowJ that debate is over, he said. "We're seeding an architecture that is goingK to last for two decades," he added, even as he said critics were correct to  be skeptical in the past.   E "We've been kind of plodding along and we missed a couple of schedule E points," Mr. Fister said. But those days are behind Itanium, he said, D adding, "The information technology industry is buying anything that  demonstrates price performance."  L IN private conversations with big Intel customers, Mr. Otellini has said theJ company is more committed to Itanium than ever and willing to push to make it succeed - at whatever cost.  J A senior executive at a large computer maker said that when he asked aboutJ Intel's Itanium strategy, Mr. Otellini replied, "Don't even think about us pulling back from Itanium."   H The senior executive said his company still had concerns about Itanium -H whether its complex design would work in the broad and diverse market of corporate computing.  J Mr. Fister argues that the debate about the complexity of writing softwareI for the new chip design - a crucial issue if Itanium is to succeed - will J soon be put to rest, as important software applications arrive for Itanium. from companies like Microsoft, Oracle and SAP.  G Even if Itanium overcomes the software bottleneck, Mr. Fister will face H another challenge soon: positioning Itanium against a new 64-bit OpteronL from Advanced Micro Devices, Intel's closest rival in the personal computing world.  K Intel and Hewlett-Packard chose to start from scratch with a new design for L Itanium, requiring programmers to rewrite applications. AMD has taken a more compatible approach.  F Opteron, which will begin shipping next year, is based on the originalD Intel-designed X86 instruction set. That means the chip will run allG existing software intended for other Intel chips, as well as compatible ( processors, with only minor alterations.  C At a technical conference in Silicon Valley in the summer, computer G designers were impressed when AMD said the new 64-bit extensions to the J existing 32-bit chip required only 2 to 3 percent more silicon. That, theyJ said, is a small price to pay for a 64-bit chip that can also run softwareJ applications written for existing 32-bit chips. "We believe customers wantI an easy migration path to 64 bits," said Marty Seyer, a vice president at  AMD.  H Until recently, AMD has been largely ignored by Intel because it has notI been a significant factor in the corporate computer server market. But if G AMD finds success with a high-visibility computer maker like Dell, that G could change fast. In fact, Dell has said that it is looking closely at  using Opteron.  I "This is the first time AMD has had a value proposition that is more than K just price," said Randall D. Groves, vice president for computer servers at H Dell. "That's something we have to take seriously." Dell, he added, willE probably make a decision before year-end on whether to buy AMD chips.   K The AMD challenge has led Intel to quietly begin a project, called Yamhill, G in Oregon. There, a team of Intel engineers is trying to build a 64-bit G extended version of its own X86 Pentium chips, just like AMD's Opteron.   A AMD's reputation in chip design is better than its reputation for K manufacturing and business execution. But regardless of Opteron's fate, the J Yamhill project itself could present thorny problems for Intel. If YamhillK shows an easier path from 32- to 64-bit computing than the costly rewriting E of software applications, as the shift to Itanium requires, corporate / customers will be reluctant to move to Itanium.   I Mr. Fister was coy about Yamhill in an interview at Intel headquarters in C Santa Clara, Calif. Intel has never publicly acknowledged Yamhill's F existence. But he suggested that AMD might encounter difficulties withL Opteron. "It may not be as simple as people think it is to take advantage of a 64-bit processor," he said.   H Then, all but acknowledging Yamhill, Mr. Fister dropped a few intriguingK hints that Intel's design efforts for it were well under way. "We're pretty I smart about the evolution to 64-bit, and we're street-smart about it," he  said.   L Mr. Fister also suggested that Intel might have already developed extensionsJ to its 32-bit products that "we haven't told anyone about." But, he added,5 "it's hard for us to talk about unannounced entries."   H Not far away, in Palo Alto, Hewlett-Packard may have even more riding onH Itanium than does Intel. The chip is a big part of the company's goal toK gain an edge over I.B.M., Sun Microsystems and Dell in corporate computing.   J As a co-developer of the Itanium technology, Hewlett-Packard will get deepI discounts on the price of each chip. That will give Hewlett a significant  cost advantage over rivals.   E In an interview last December, before shareholders approved Hewlett's K purchase of Compaq, Richard A. Hackborn, a board member and a former senior G executive, portrayed Itanium as a potentially crucial advantage for the  combined company.   J As part of its partnership with Intel, Hewlett was granted early access toG chip designs and a deeper understanding of the technology, Mr. Hackborn G said. So it will have a technical edge on other makers of Itanium-based K servers, he argued, in addition to lower costs. That could make Hewlett the K lead integrator of the Intel microprocessor and Microsoft operating systems  in corporate data centers.  K "That's a huge opportunity," Mr. Hackborn said. If Hewlett can exploit that K opportunity, he added, "That puts the new H.P. on a comparable footing with  Intel and Microsoft."   L There are other benefits for Hewlett-Packard. The Itanium allows the companyK to eliminate both of its current 64-bit chips - the H.P. PA-RISC and Compaq F Alpha. That alone should save the company $200 million to $400 millionG annually in development and manufacturing costs, according to Steven M. ( Milunovich, an analyst at Merrill Lynch.  G Yet if Itanium fails, he said, "the real loss is the opportunity cost."   G In the commercial market, Hewlett badly needs a credible strategy and a L marketing message. Itanium, Mr. Milunovich said, is an essential part of theC plan establishing Hewlett as the leading packager and integrator of  Itanium-based systems.  K "If everything works according to plan, H.P. could be best positioned to be K the company to take PC economics into the enterprise," Mr. Milunovich said.   E If Itanium fails, he added, Hewlett-Packard will be forced to go with I Yamhill or AMD, and it will lose its hoped-for advantages in making large  data-serving computers.   L In the end, Itanium may be most vulnerable to a force that neither Intel norL Hewlett-Packard can control: the economy. Even if Itanium proves a technicalI success, the most powerful incentive for companies to shift to it lies in I the high-performance computing power needed for ambitious new information C technology projects. But in the sluggish economy, few companies are  increasing capital spending.  I "The real challenge to the Itanium may have less to do with marketing and J design and more to do with a collapsing economy," said Michael Shulman, an6 analyst at ChangeWave, a research firm in Potomac, Md.  K Mr. Shulman's firm regularly asks corporate information technology managers K about spending plans. From last summer to this summer, he said, interest in K the Itanium eroded sharply as spending on new computing projects was reined  in.   H "The common view is, `If it doesn't save us money we have no interest in7 it,' " Mr. Shulman said. "It's a very hard-nosed view."         $ Copyright The New York Times Company   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:06:36 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)H Message-ID: <gE_l9.105515$q41.8723@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:9GOl9.1784$Qh1.312447@news20.bellglobal.com... I > Quote from article: The more powerful Itanium 2 was introduced in July,  but F > market researchers now project that Itanium will garner less than 10 percent K > of the market for server computing as far ahead as 2007. Intel executives $ > have not disputed those forecasts.H > I'll bet execs wished they hadn't killed Alpha-EV8 so soon. Of course, they4 > probably won't be around to take the heat in 2007. >   K If they wanted to get back into the EV8n-EV9n business, all they have to do J is dangle some signing bonuses and no-cut contracts in front of the former/ EV8-9 team members. They could start tomorrrow.   J Or if they were worried about some non-solicit clause that might be in anyK agreement between HP and Intel, then maybe they patch up their relationship ; with Samsung and revive API, and let API do the recruiting.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:14:05 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) L Subject: Re: "Intel's Huge Bet Turns Iffy":  Doubts hit the mainstream (NYT)5 Message-ID: <929988A1Ewarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>   + billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote in 9 <bPFl9.363298$5r1.16859132@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>:     >(URL below wraps) > J >http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/29/technology/circuits/29CHIP.html?ex=1033% >876 800&en=573e03cf736d51a5&ei=5062&  > H >(BYT, it mentions that eliminating *both* PA-RISC and Alpha developmentF >should save HP $200 - $400 million annually, one more confirmation ofF >EV8's cost being on the order of $100 million or less annually, givenG >that it was only one of two parallel chip efforts plus did not include  >server-related development.)  >  >- bill   K Glad you found this Bill - I went digging around the NYT site this morning   but didn't find it.   J The author (I believe) was interviewed on CNBC this (Monday) morning, and K took great pain not to disparage Intel.  He spoke in terms of "challenges"  D and their marketing might, rather than diss'ing the chip or company.   Sigh... A pig with lipstick....   H OTOH, maybe this is the kiss that immediately precedes the real sex <g>.   ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:17:46 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... 2 Message-ID: <e2Zl9.18$QK1.465974@news.cpqcorp.net>  B Bill, just as I don't conclude from the fact you 're a disgruntledJ ex-employee, that you are an incompetent programmer, neither do I concludeG that because this guy lied on his resume, that he was a bad analyst.  I  can't say either way.   I I suspect that had this been some analyst who was touting AMD and Hammer, , you would be on the other side of the issue.  K The local Nashua rag (the Telegraph) had an interesting column this weekend K on just this subject.  It was about the writers grandfather, who as a young K man "lied" about his being a carpenter to get work at a mill that was being K built.  He sold all his belongings to buy tools, and went on to perform the L job of a carpenter.  Even though the author stated at the beginning that allL lies are bad, he had a difficult time calling this lie bad.  I don't know ifD I agree or disagree with him.  But it points out that even otherwiseJ "honest" people lie, and that it's hard to know the truth from a newspaper article.       Bill Todd wrote in message ... > A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message - >news:2DGk9.27$Zn5.488567@news.cpqcorp.net...  >>! >> Bill Todd wrote in message ...  >> >D >> >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message0 >> >news:OMDk9.14$0g5.314502@news.cpqcorp.net... >> >>   >> >> Bill Todd wrote in message@ >> >> <3ipk9.287313$AR1.12262220@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... >> >> >  >> >> > H >> >> >'Successful'?  'Wins'?  Do you know anything about this bozo that >would@ >> >> >cause you to associate these positive qualities with him? >> >> >  >> >> H >> >> Aside from knowing a single opinion, which you don't share, I know
 >> nothing >> >> about him.  Do you?  >> >G >> >No, but I wasn't the one attempting to associate such (or any other ( >> >unsubstantiated) qualities with him. >> > >>I >> I wasn't, but the story was.  He lied on his resume, his opinion on HP  was I >> important.  They didn't say anything about *any* other opinion the guy , >> wrote.b  Just the link to the HP opinion. >>8 >> My response is "So he lied on his resume.  So what?". > L >Unfortunately, that wasn't *all* you said.  And you'll note from the quotes3 >above that it wasn't the part I took exception to.  >  >  The fact that he K >> authored the opinion doesn't mean A) it was wrong, or B) that he had the I >> ability to issue such an opinion without the advice and consent of his H >> employer - who has said that they stand by the opinion, and that they# >> reviewed it prior to it's issue.  > D >No:  it simply brings his honesty (and hence his impartiality) into
 >question. >  >>K >> Lying on a resume may or may not say something about the individual, but  >it K >> is wrong to try to link it to the performance of his technical analysis,  >or K >> it's correctness.  Being a lawyer has just about as much relationship to 6 >> opinions on a HP merger, as having a dental degree. > L >You persist in being obtuse, Fred.  The issue isn't whether he is a lawyer, >but whether he is a liar. >  >- bill  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:21:48 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: "Underqualified tipster backed HP merger"... 2 Message-ID: <06Zl9.21$%I1.398473@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3D935BCE.9FAB189A@videotron.ca>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: J >> My response is "So he lied on his resume.  So what?".  The fact that heK >> authored the opinion doesn't mean A) it was wrong, or B) that he had the I >> ability to issue such an opinion without the advice and consent of his  >> employer  > L >However, that employee's credibility became nil when this was discovered soJ >his recommendations lost value. It doesn't mean they were wrong, but just that >they weren't credible.   K Oh, there is no doubt that both he and his firm have lost some credibility. I But I think at the same time it is wrong (as the article, and some others F want to insinuate) that it means that the HP merger was wrong, or that0 somehow HP should be tarred with the same brush.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:21:08 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> Y Subject: Re: Attn: TCPIP engineering (was Infinite loop bug in TCPIP 5.3 NFS client with  8 Message-ID: <jdggpuo4uiqcqvt0a7u49tsap4qmopu97a@4ax.com>  0 On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:05:51 -0400, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:    > & >Yes, ECO 1 is available and there are >quite a few NFS client fixes.  F Thanks, just grabbed "Compaq TCPIP] AXPVMS-TCPIP_ECO-V0503-181-4 TCPIP6 V5.3 for OpenVMS Alpha" but it doesn't fix the problem  C Guess I'll have to report it. Anyone from TCPIP engineering reading  this?    >David R> Beatty > D >On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:16:02 +0100, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:  > F >>Is there an ECO out for TCPIP 5.3 yet? If so any chance it fixes the- >>following problem with /structure-5 mounts.  >> >> tcpip sho ver >>9 >>  Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 6 >>  on a AlphaStation 400 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3-1 >> >>/structure=2 >>1 >>$ dir/siz/date     dnfs1:[weealf_manman_backup]  >>( >>Directory DNFS1:[WEEALF_MANMAN_BACKUP] >>7 >>ALAN.BCK;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40 7 >>ALAN.BCK;2            110250  26-SEP-2002 11:16:49.69 7 >>ALAN.BCK;1                 0  26-SEP-2002 11:16:14.39 7 >>MANMAN.BCK;1         2419137  25-SEP-2002 14:51:56.20 7 >>MANMAN.DIR;1               1  25-SEP-2002 12:11:46.64 7 >>SADMAN.BCK;2            4788  25-SEP-2002 13:45:08.33 7 >>SADMAN.BCK;1           45612  25-SEP-2002 13:42:18.19 7 >>ZLAN.BCK;3           1054976  27-SEP-2002 13:52:11.40C7 >>ZLAN.BCK;2           1005102  27-SEP-2002 13:44:13.66t7 >>ZLAN.BCK;1            178983  27-SEP-2002 10:46:06.06  >>$ >>Total of 10 files, 5035317 blocks. >>6 >>$ dir/siz/date  DNFS1:[weealf_manman_backup]alan.bck >>( >>Directory DNFS1:[WEEALF_MANMAN_BACKUP] >>7 >>ALAN.BCK;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40 7 >>ALAN.BCK;2            110250  26-SEP-2002 11:16:49.69u7 >>ALAN.BCK;1                 0  26-SEP-2002 11:16:14.39u >>" >>Total of 3 files, 326718 blocks. >>$d >> >>- >>But now the same thing mounted /structure=5I >> >>( >>Directory DNFS1:[weealf_manman_backup] >>7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40 7 >>alan.bck;2            110250  26-SEP-2002 11:16:49.69r7 >>alan.bck;1                 0  26-SEP-2002 11:16:14.39I7 >>manman.bck;1         2419137  25-SEP-2002 14:51:56.20 7 >>manman.DIR;1               1  25-SEP-2002 12:11:46.64y7 >>sadman.bck;2            4788  25-SEP-2002 13:45:08.33O7 >>sadman.bck;1           45612  25-SEP-2002 13:42:18.19e7 >>zlan.bck;3           1054976  27-SEP-2002 13:52:11.40t7 >>zlan.bck;2           1005102  27-SEP-2002 13:44:13.66 7 >>zlan.bck;1            178983  27-SEP-2002 10:46:06.06O >>$ >>Total of 10 files, 5035317 blocks. >>	 >>But nowr >>6 >>$ dir/siz/date  DNFS1:[weealf_manman_backup]alan.bck >>( >>Directory DNFS1:[weealf_manman_backup] >>7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40f7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40e7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40 7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40u7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40g7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40s7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40 7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40h7 >>alan.bck;3            216468  26-SEP-2002 13:05:15.40o >> >>and so on for ever   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:51:15 GMTe1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> , Subject: Re: Boycott The Body Shop !!!  9652. Message-ID: <na0m9.262505$Jo.115988@rwcrnsc53>  4 Body Sop? I thought it was Panel Beaters over there!  & <owxzoc@britshit.org> wrote in message7 news:3d978fb7$0$69050$edfadb0f@dspool01.news.tele.dk... K > Description: Anita Roddick (founder and CEO of  The Body Shop) commentary C for the London Independent regarding American civil liberties sincea	 9/11/2001o >m > ---O >XG > How has the world changed since Sept. 11? For one thing, Europeans no-  longer aspire to *be* Americans. >-H > Who would, given how that country moves steadily and inexorably towardG dictatorship? The American people, in a scant 12 months, have had theirIL once-enviable civil liberties outrageously eroded in the name of patriotism.J The ideals of freedom and democracy which America pledges to export acrossE the globe have been perverted so spectacularly at home that America's & admirers hardly recognise her anymore. >aC > Where once Americans reveled in their uniquely American right andrK willingness to criticize their government, they are now told that those whoiJ dissent are no better than terrorists, or terrorists themselves. They haveK had their pride of country, their patriotism, hijacked by a self-interested J and short-sighted government which steals freedoms from its own people andG gives riches to corporations and "security" infrastructures such as thefF military, FBI, and CIA, all of which which have proven, in the past 12= months, to be either fatally incompetent and totally corrupt.a >yH > Those Americans who would question their government are told to "watchJ what they say." The FBI has been given broad reign to spy on citizens withK phone taps and email snoops. Long-held ideals of fair and speedy trials areuB thrown out the window as suspected terrorists and sympathizers areA "disappeared" like the enemies of Pinochet 20 years ago in Chile.o >xL > In exchange for their freedoms, Americans are not safer now than they wereK a year ago; in fact, they are probably less so. Their government is a rogue G state, rejecting international consensus on every front and threateningiC first-strike nuclear attacks and politically expedient invasions ofoE sovereign nations. America has more nuclear, biological, and chemicaleK weapons that any other country, and it is the only nation to have used suchtK a weapon against another. And still it stubbornly refuses any international J effort or treaty to regulate, minimise, or eliminate such weapons, even asJ it uses Iraq's suspected possession of (or mere desire for) them as reason for wholesale attack.o >'J > America's us-against-the-world mentality has managed to wear away almostI all of the remarkable international sympathy it built up just after Sept.vL 11. Bush & Co. has slapped the international community in the face as the itG tried to embrace and console the United States. Now the enmity has leftaE America alone, more reviled and isolated internationally than before.B >1F > The scars of Ground Zero will heal, the grief at the loss of so manyF innocents will ease, but the damage the United States has inflicted onH itself will last far longer. To hell with George Bush; God save America. > ---t >iK > A version of this article appeared in the London Independent on Sept. 11,  2002 > ---- > -b > -r > -t > C > lblyrevpjonhorkeoeviwwritzpbhnxtnzhlhlyknofbvguyebbjxmwkcbhkxowmp  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:55:38 -0500g* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>! Subject: CARTS LUG mtg 2-OCT-2002 8 Message-ID: <3d988209$0$1424$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>  G The next CARTS LUG meeting is scheduled for this Wednesday, 2-OCT-2002.d   Topic:  Imaging and Printing  ; Please note the new location ( hp office in Downers Grove).i  9 Details at: http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/carts/oct02.htmlY   -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and lesst trouble. -----Mark Twainm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:23:15 +0100t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancylD Subject: Re: Celera Throws Compaq Servers In Trash - Forbes Magazine. Message-ID: <3D9809F3.4050301@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:n  M > they are morons ... how long do you think IBM aix risc is going to last ... H > it would have been cost effective and smart to replace the es40's withK > either 1.25ghz es45's or ev7 systems running tru64 for the next 4-5 yearslJ > and wait to see how itanium fairs ... now in 5-7 years they are going toF > have to replace all those garbage IBM servers and migrate to itaniumM > anyway it looks like ... unless they know something about itanium we don't!r  1 Damn I am going to have to rush to IBM's defense.e  1 1.	Power 4 is out and 1.1 and 1.3ish and IBM plan # a speed bump to I think its 1.5Ghz.r  4 2.	Power 5 is in development and there is no sign of/ IBM dropping Power any time in the near future.   8 3.	AIX is likely to overtake HP-UX as the second largest: UNIX OS sometime fairly soon, HP-UX revenues are declining faster than AIX revenues.p  ; 4.	The es45 might be new and shinny but its also expensive,t= much more expensive than say a 4 way Power 4 server from IBM.e  > So what that the Power 4 has slightly lower SPECint and SPECfp4 it costs under half the price. 70K rather than 200K.  < This kind of application is mostly about how many cycles you can get for X dollars.  8 5.	Given the fact that Celera almost certainly swallowedA the Alpha for ever BS before they purchased their existing estateiA they are hardly likely to be well disposed to a sales weasel from ) HPQ giving them an Itanium futures pitch.i  < So is is suprising that due to Alphas poor price performance< lack of a future and the uncertain benefits of moving to its? alternative from HPQ Itanium they have chosen to go else where.h   RegardsC Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 07:35:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0D Subject: Re: Celera Throws Compaq Servers In Trash - Forbes Magazine3 Message-ID: <ccayoaaVi3MH@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  \ In article <3D94AE92.EE9B67B5@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > M > However, I am puzzled. What CPU does Cray use these days ? I thought it hads > adopted Alpha ?   D   Cray was using thier own CPU for serial processing and an array ofE   Alphas for parallel processing.  Then SGI bought Cray, out went the    Alphas and in went MIPS.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 07:45:15 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a! Subject: Re: China clones Alpha ?m3 Message-ID: <19TIEXyfoWTt@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  h In article <d7791aa1.0209271659.5938650a@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > D > that's right ... don't be surprised if soon you will be buying ev8 > alpha systems from china!   B   Yep.  After all, they've been manufacturing underwear for years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:31:28 -0400e2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: China clones Alpha ? . Message-ID: <3D987C60.FC6D07D6@mindspring.com>   system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   > Dateline armageddon: > E > The allied front today lost the battle of armageddon to the alignedaD > maligned forces of evil when their Micro$oft based defense systems+ > BSoD at a critical affront in the battle.i   Joke 1:   - So Bill Gates dies and meets St. Peter at thee/ [gG]ates of Heaven. St. Peter says "Bill! We'veb1 been waiting for you a long, long time, and we'vea, got just the job for you! We want you to run Heaven's IT department."  , Now Gates figures "Whew! Even after all that- dubious s**t I pulled with Microsoft, they're $ going to cut me a break! All right!"  1 St. Peter continues, "But Bill, there's one thing , you should know: Here in Heaven, we use Macs
 exclusively."p     Joke 1a, alternate punchline:n  ' "But Bill, there's one thing you shoulde$ know: Here in Heaven, we use Windows) and there's a bit of a system maintenance " backlog for you to catch up on..."   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-    Joke 2:.  - So Bill Gates dies and meets St. Peter at then0 Gates of Heaven. St. Peter says "Bill, you know,- that was some dubious s**t you did down there", on Earth with Microsoft, but it's just about+ counter-balanced by the good works that them+ Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation did, plus / your old man, liberal that he is, put in a goods- word for you. So you could go either way, andi1 we're going to let it be your call. You can go too either Heaven or Hell."i  - So Gates so, "Okay, but I can I see them both  before I decide?"t  2 "Sure!" says St. Peter. "But once you decide, it's$ for keeps. Let's start with Heaven".  1 So they go inside and Gates sees a bunch of folksi2 lounging around, not doing much. You know, playing8 the occasional harp, snoozing on a cloud, reading books, that sort of thing.a  4 Bill decides that's not his scene, so he asks to see Hell.i  * He knocks on the Gates of Hell and Lucifer/ immediately shows him in. Hell is a *MUCH* more 0 swinging place than Heaven. Lots of video games,3 72 virgins, champagne flowing freely, and not a Macc or a Linux box to be seen.  5 Gates is sold and goes back to tell St. Peter the badu0 news. *POOF*! He's back at the Gates of Hell and3 no sooner can he look up but seven demons grab him,e7 drag him inside, and throw him head first into a pit off burning, stinking brimstone.  2 Scrambling back out, Gates demands to see Lucifer.  0 "But, but, but," he coughs and stammers, this is+ *NOTHING* like what you showed me earlier!"   . Lucifer replies "Oh, that. That was our demo."    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  1 Avoid the Gates of Hell, use Linux/Mac/VMS/MVS...S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:34:03 -0400r2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>! Subject: Re: China clones Alpha ?-. Message-ID: <3D987CFB.F8825611@mindspring.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e  B > Now, I know that Bill Clinton gave the ChiComs the neutron bomb,; > supercomputers, etc in exchange for campaign donations...c  ? > ...We truly are ignorant fools and derserve what we will get.o  7 If you actually believe that first thing you said, thenn( that second statement certainly follows.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:46:22 +0530l= From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav.Tadimeti@signaltreesolutions.com>r7 Subject: difficulty in using PC based open VMS debuggerhI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C26059BBC5@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>d  
 Hello all,9 I am trying to use Open VMS debugger client from Win NT.  L *Have added dbg$enable_server to the rights database by running debug/server by logging in as SYSTEM.G *Have granted this to a user using GRANT/ID=DBG$ENABLE_SERVER user-namea. *logged in as user-name and did a debug/server6      %DEBUG-I-SPEAK: TCP/IP: YES, DECnet: NO, UDP: YESF     %DEBUG-I-WATCH: Network Binding: ncacn_ip_tcp:172.19.149.14[49154]0                 %DEBUG-I-WATCH: Network Binding:! ncadg_ip_udp:172.19.149.14[49154]t=                %DEBUG-I-AWAIT: Ready for client connection...7  H *opened the connect dialog in OPEN VMS Debugger (client - PC) and try to. connect to  ncacn_ip_tcp:172.19.149.14[49154]    $   I CAN'T connect. Error message is: 	Attempting to continue...;                 %DEBUG-E-NORESPONSE: Server did not respondtB                %DEBUG-E-COMM: (Server Connect) - The RPC server is unavailable.        & What could be wrong? Can any one help?  
 With regards,o Keshav   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 07:40:31 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r* Subject: Re: Errors running Oracle7 on VMS3 Message-ID: <Lv3gaUEDIXlm@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <3d948590_1@news.vic.com>, "Robert Cervantez" <rob@DONOTSPAM.symcas-tsg.com> writes:- > *** SESSION ID:(3.1)M > Could not a write message to alert file, probably too busy. (VMS error was:eL > 98954): The message will be written to this trace file instead: Checkpoint > not complete >   %    $write sys$output f$message(98954)n4    %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user  B   You can find out who that "other user" is by using a show deviceG    /files.  Sounds like an application design problem, perhaps the filec#    show be opened for shared write.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:13:01 GMTp. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licensey4 Message-ID: <xAUl9.88783$142.1109427@news.chello.at>  c In article <qn3k1TfDfcef@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:l` >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEDFFNAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:9 >> Not sure exactly what you are asking, obviously the OS,= >> does.  Our PL/I which you can download form www.kednos.coms >> respects that license pak.k >a? >I diagree with Tom, in that I do not believe any DEC/Compaq/HP D >product honors the Product Authorization Key for OPENVMS-HOBBYIST .   Me too. That's why I asked.w  B >That Product Authorization Key was added to the Hobbyist licenses@ >specifically for the use of third parties who want to allow use@ >of their product by hobbyist without involving the hobbyist (or? >the vendor) in an extra round of obtaining PAKs, regardless ofv@ >the fact that it would be free of charge.  This is not an issue? >with DEC/Compaq/HP products, since the Hobbyist Program issues $ >individual PAKs for those products.   That's what I know.o  F >LJK/Security is another product that honors the Product Authorization= >Key for OPENVMS-HOBBYIST (effective with LJK/Security V2.8).m >  >	http://www.ljk.com/   . And that's what I wanted to know. Many thanks. Any other product ?    -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialista E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 06:00:14 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licensed3 Message-ID: <dODP5oC$anST@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  e In article <xAUl9.88783$142.1109427@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:ee > In article <qn3k1TfDfcef@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e  C >>That Product Authorization Key was added to the Hobbyist licenseseA >>specifically for the use of third parties who want to allow usesA >>of their product by hobbyist without involving the hobbyist (ord@ >>the vendor) in an extra round of obtaining PAKs, regardless ofA >>the fact that it would be free of charge.  This is not an issue @ >>with DEC/Compaq/HP products, since the Hobbyist Program issues% >>individual PAKs for those products.g >  > That's what I know.d   > Any other product ?   A I suppose Montegar (or anyone else) could post a list on the web.o? For that matter so could DECUServe.  Or anyone who posts there,h$ by using LATEST_RELEASE_INFORMATION.  > But it would probably be good if one also listed products with@ independent hobbyist programs, where you get a separate PAK from@ the vendor.  I am pretty sure that is the case for at least some< product(s) from Process Software.  Does anyone want to start< listing them in this topic (since it is not yet too crowded,= especially compared to some of the "doom and gloom" topics) ?n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 11:35:11 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licenseh6 Message-ID: <20020930113511.11891.qmail@nym.alias.net>  > On 30 Sep 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:J >In article <xAUl9.88783$142.1109427@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at >(Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:6 >> In article <qn3k1TfDfcef@eisner.encompasserve.org>,2 >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >,D >>>That Product Authorization Key was added to the Hobbyist licensesB >>>specifically for the use of third parties who want to allow useB >>>of their product by hobbyist without involving the hobbyist (orA >>>the vendor) in an extra round of obtaining PAKs, regardless ofeB >>>the fact that it would be free of charge.  This is not an issueA >>>with DEC/Compaq/HP products, since the Hobbyist Program issuesi& >>>individual PAKs for those products. >> c >> That's what I know. >s >> Any other product ? >bB >I suppose Montegar (or anyone else) could post a list on the web.@ >For that matter so could DECUServe.  Or anyone who posts there,% >by using LATEST_RELEASE_INFORMATION.p >i? >But it would probably be good if one also listed products with A >independent hobbyist programs, where you get a separate PAK fromeA >the vendor.  I am pretty sure that is the case for at least somei= >product(s) from Process Software.  Does anyone want to starta= >listing them in this topic (since it is not yet too crowded,.> >especially compared to some of the "doom and gloom" topics) ?  K The extra ones I use are Multinet and PerfectDisk. IIRC PerfectDisk doesn'tr use standard VMS licensing.o  B However, I do think the generic hobbyist license is a good idea asC companies which use it no longer need to muck about issuing keys to 
 Hobbyists.     Doc. -- q6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.neto   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 06:53:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licensee3 Message-ID: <0eopgXgDCkth@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <20020930113511.11891.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:i  M > The extra ones I use are Multinet and PerfectDisk. IIRC PerfectDisk doesn't  > use standard VMS licensing.u > D > However, I do think the generic hobbyist license is a good idea asE > companies which use it no longer need to muck about issuing keys to  > Hobbyists.  L Some vendors may feel they need to know who is using their Hobbyist license.G Others are more interested in reducing their own effort to participate.h, Some probably don't understand the question.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 08:07:01 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)g Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licenser3 Message-ID: <E03DJ1xmQse$@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  c In article <0eopgXgDCkth@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:l > N > Some vendors may feel they need to know who is using their Hobbyist license.I > Others are more interested in reducing their own effort to participate. . > Some probably don't understand the question.  D    Fine, then there could be a generic Hobbyist PAK and some vendors    could choose not to use it.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 10:20:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licensee3 Message-ID: <9QQcfeDcwYJk@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  c In article <E03DJ1xmQse$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:le > In article <0eopgXgDCkth@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >> tO >> Some vendors may feel they need to know who is using their Hobbyist license.aJ >> Others are more interested in reducing their own effort to participate./ >> Some probably don't understand the question.f > F >    Fine, then there could be a generic Hobbyist PAK and some vendors  >    could choose not to use it.  E There _IS_ a generic Hobbyist PAK, with Producer name DEC and Product F name OPENVMS-HOBBYIST.  It gets delivered to every VMS hobbyist exceptG those who fetch the OS PAK and fail the fetch the layered product PAKs.bC The ones who do that show up in comp.os.vms sooner or later anyway.p  D The original poster was trying to come up with a list of third party! products known to honor that PAK.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:39:01 -0700t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>C Subject: RE: Hobbyist Licensed9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEECFNAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----o5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] ) >Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:21 AMs >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: Hobbyist License >c > 5 >In article <E03DJ1xmQse$@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  0 >koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:7 >> In article <0eopgXgDCkth@eisner.encompasserve.org>, t0 >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>> ? >>> Some vendors may feel they need to know who is using their e >Hobbyist license.K >>> Others are more interested in reducing their own effort to participate. 0 >>> Some probably don't understand the question. >>  G >>    Fine, then there could be a generic Hobbyist PAK and some vendorsa! >>    could choose not to use it.c >uF >There _IS_ a generic Hobbyist PAK, with Producer name DEC and ProductG >name OPENVMS-HOBBYIST.  It gets delivered to every VMS hobbyist except H >those who fetch the OS PAK and fail the fetch the layered product PAKs.D >The ones who do that show up in comp.os.vms sooner or later anyway. >iE >The original poster was trying to come up with a list of third partyy" >products known to honor that PAK.  < HP or possibly Montagar seems like the appropriate place for  such a list.  Anybody listening?     >m >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.a; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002  >h ---y& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:40:49 +0100r' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyvY Subject: Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMS   Multisess-. Message-ID: <3D980E11.2070909@nospamn.sun.com>   Warning blatant sales pitch.  1 Why not buy a small Sun V120/V100 the cheapest is , $1000. Install Tarantella Server on the Sun,3 X-Windows to OpenVMS, Java, linux, win32 or Solarisr2 clients on the desktops using Tarantellas adaptive protocol (like Citrix).8   Regards7 Andrew Harrisonl   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Ed Wensell III wrote:n >  >>Ed Wensell III wrote:  >>< >>>Failing Xwindows as others have suggested, how about VNC? >>>t8 >>>http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/platforms.html#vms >>>hK >>>IIRC, on UNIX/VMS systems, VNC turns into separate user instances ratherb? >>>than console control. You can then use the VNC client or any * >>>Java-capable web browser to connect in. >>A >>The package is viewer only... I'll go back to sleep now. Sorry.i >  >   E > However, you can run the vnc server on unix and get it to request anE > login screen from VMS using XDM (TCP/IP 5.1 and above). I have just C > managed to get this working. OK xdm security is a painful kludge. @ > However, its good not to have to login to unix/vms again when E > the windows box I sit in front of (its got the big screen) needs a rD > reboot. OK, linux is involved, but then my VMS is running on ts10 : > on the same linux box so its not really an issue for me. > F > has anyone tried porting the vnc server to VMS? I got the sourcecode= > for the latest versio, but .configure is very daunting :-).  >  > 
 > regards, >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:19:32 GMTc4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMSMultisession20 Message-ID: <3D98858F.92A0B38E@blueyonder.co.uk>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Warning blatant sales pitch. > 3 > Why not buy a small Sun V120/V100 the cheapest is . > $1000. Install Tarantella Server on the Sun,5 > X-Windows to OpenVMS, Java, linux, win32 or Solarisn4 > clients on the desktops using Tarantellas adaptive > protocol (like Citrix).- >   6 OK, if I had a budget :-). vnc is a bit clunky but the9 idea is great and the price even better, given my currentC situation. )   Regards,     k -- t tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:30:26 +0000b2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>Y Subject: Re: I want Citrix Metaframe Server for OpenVMS !!!! was (Re: OpenVMSMultisessions4 Message-ID: <20020930173026.C21341@eisenschmidt.org>  6 My brain almost exploded when I saw this subject line.  % No you don't. NO YOU DON'T! NO NO NO!   A I missed the beginning of this thread, but how much have you used"D Citrix? It's a really neat concept, and works ok, but not as well as	 I'd like.w  = I remember looking at Winframe for NT 3.51, we talked about auB Citrix-only office instead of full PCs. We didn't, I'm glad. In myA next job (in a *much* larger environment) one of my duties was toeC babysit the Metaframe farm, rebooting Metaframe boxen everytime the 	 exploded.i  C We have one here at my current job, and for what it does it does ithD well. It's like IT camping, when you need access to your environmentD (OS version, Office Version, Network Shares, files, etc) it gets theC job done, but I wouldn't want to use it every day. I have seen someiA pretty slick Metaframe setups, balancing screen traffic and printl? queues between low and high speed pipes, but it is like a wholeo different animal.E  D And it sounds like for what you want to do, VNC of Hummingbird would9 do the same thing, unless you want an Alpha on each desk.f  E Though personally, I'd love to wake up tomorrow and have the businessh world overtaken by Sun Rays...  U Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Tim Llewellyn (tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk) Wrote:  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >   > > Warning blatant sales pitch. > > 5 > > Why not buy a small Sun V120/V100 the cheapest iss0 > > $1000. Install Tarantella Server on the Sun,7 > > X-Windows to OpenVMS, Java, linux, win32 or Solaris.6 > > clients on the desktops using Tarantellas adaptive > > protocol (like Citrix).7 > 8 > OK, if I had a budget :-). vnc is a bit clunky but the; > idea is great and the price even better, given my currentb
 > situation. h > 
 > Regards, >  u >  u > -- o! > tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   > J > * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   -- e/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> C    Public Key   |  http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/pgp.ascnD    Fingerprint  |  5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2J Is this mail an attachment? http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:39:56 +0200>' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>. Subject: Re: Imagemagick  5.4.9e2 Message-ID: <3D98461C.6090803@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Jeffrey Coffield wrote:AH > Does anyone know how to install Imagemagick 5.4.9 on VMS? It compiles I > but CONVERT complains about "no delegate for this image format" when I AF > try to convert a jpg to something else. The only references to this H > error that I can find are from Unix/Windoze systems. It seems to need < > some logical or symbol to point to some directory to work. >  > Thanks in advance.., >   ! Hmm. Not so much info. Questions: :    1) can you display jpg images using the display utilityE    2) To what are you converting. i.e. not all formats use delegates.i@    3) The delegate descriptions are normally searched for in the@        users login-directory. The user who installed ImageMagickE        automatically gets the right files. You have to do it manuallyl        for others./    4) Did you use the patches from my web-page?e0         ( http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms )   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:03:42 GMT35 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n# Subject: Re: Monitor over frequency:2 Message-ID: <2RYl9.17$%H1.374825@news.cpqcorp.net>  K You need to tell us what the graphics card is.  Most cards allow adjustment9$ of the resolution and refresh rates.  ! Phillip Sobottke wrote in messagei6 <2JEl9.1501$F53.1561537@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>...L >I have a Digital Ultimate workstation that I am trying to get VMS installedI >on.  When I boot after installation, and the alpha system console startsiK >up...shortly thereafter my monitor shuts down (over frequency).  Do I needhK >to try a different monitor, or can I adjust the frequency setting somehow?e >w >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:00:44 +0200t8 From: "Martin Zijderhand" <martin.zijderhand@centric.nl> Subject: Nameserver resolving.2 Message-ID: <an9hii$ko0$1@magellan.sys.centric.nl>   Hi,t   We've got some errors with UCX.,   Using mc ucx$nslookupl   > ls sys.centric.nlm   [thunderchild.sys.centric.nl]-  3 *** Can't list domain sys.centric.nl: Query refusedm      9 and ucx sh host the local host will be displayed and thenn  & %UCX-W-NORECORD, Information not found  > -UCX-E-BIND_READERR, Error reading/interpreting query response  * Who can help me to resolve these problems?   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 07:29:23 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>i Subject: Re: Newcomers to VMSo6 Message-ID: <20020930072923.12033.qmail@nym.alias.net>  ; On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) wrote:v   <snip>  I >In my case, it's because I have some hardware which runs VMS.  I'm still I >working on getting a hobbyist CD.  I did see the article about the folkseH >running a publicly accessible OpenVMS cluster, but I kind of wonder howG >long that'll last before it gets abused into oblivion... Hmm, well, inrC >checking just now, it doesn't look like that server is on the net  	 >anymore.t  2 Yup, looks like the deathrow cluster got executed.  A However, Hobbes is still running, and I'm still accepting accountiI applications for VMSbox. It's about 2 years I've been running the service63 now, and I've only had one abuse case to deal with.0     Doc. -- 16 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netM   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:22:25 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: Re: Status of the CDA converter library4 Message-ID: <lJUl9.88846$142.1109427@news.chello.at>  \ In article <3D976F22.A8C05133@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:L >Does anyone know who is now in charge of the CDA converter library ?  StillG >that german firm or has it fallen back to Digital/Compaq/HP/whatever ?  >t@ >Was the product abandonned ? Or is it still being maintained ?    Don't know.dK But I like to add the question, if is will be converted to Alpha and IA64 ?t  N >I ask this because ever since I upgraded to 7.2, I have been unable to use it- >because the name of the licence has changed.i >u: >it now wants "CDA RT" , and I have: CDA-CONVERTER-LIBRARY >n' >With 5.5-2, I had no licence problems.(  J Are you sure about that ? I've also only the CDA-CONVERTER-LIBRARY PAK andJ had so far no problems using the converters. Did you do a fresh install of4 the converters ? When did the error message pop up ?   -- h Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atP A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm looking for (a) Network _and_ VMS Job(s)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:57:52 -0400,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g0 Subject: Re: Status of the CDA converter library, Message-ID: <3D982014.4E88ACF7@videotron.ca>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:L > Are you sure about that ? I've also only the CDA-CONVERTER-LIBRARY PAK andL > had so far no problems using the converters. Did you do a fresh install of6 > the converters ? When did the error message pop up ?    Yes, it used to work under 5.5-2  L And it stopped when I upgraded to 7.2. And yes, it does mean that one has toJ check the various versions of the images to ensure they are compatible etcN etc.  CDA has always been a problematic product because part of the convertersF come with VMS and other part came as a separate product (licensed with ALL-In-1 or separately).  6 Evidently, some of it now requires a separate licence.  H (this is on VAX, so I am even surprised theyt would have bothered making: changes since VAX is for all practical purposes "mature".)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:44:00 +0200a) From: labadie <labadie.gerard@wanadoo.fr>?" Subject: Re: Suggestion for SEARCH* Message-ID: <3D985520.64EDEC2D@wanadoo.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:    > One should be able to: > 0 > SEARCH/chocolate sys$system:TCPIP*.EXE logfile   If you can read french :-)/ http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem/dcl_search.htmt
 search forH Obtenir une liste des fichiers contenant une chane de caractres donne  ) Thanks to Sylvain Tremblay for his site !t   Regardso   Grard   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:57:33 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n" Subject: Re: Suggestion for SEARCH; Message-ID: <01KN48GRKFTM9QWKOO@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  1 > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem/dcl_search.htm   + > Thanks to Sylvain Tremblay for his site !    Just a minor gripe:n  J    Ce site est optimis=E9 pour [Microsoft Internet Explorer] en r=E9solut= ion 800x600m   :-(e  0 I humbly suggest that all web designers visit=20  &    http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:18:44 +01004- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>a" Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCHA Message-ID: <C3521D5A224C344284C3666E831BF6801D9EAF@london_exch2>c  L There is a TECO macro (SEARCH.TEC) available somewhere which uses TECO matchH control constructs for its searching.  Not quite regular expressions but gives flexibility.   -----Original Message-----( From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] Sent: 28 September 2002 14:33  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh" Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCH    9 Regular espression instead of the string would be useful.y   >-----Original Message-----r5 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]i) >Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:04 PMp >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Suggestion for SEARCH- >- >- >One should be able to:8 >:/ >SEARCH/chocolate sys$system:TCPIP*.EXE logfilee >rI >and just get a list of files which contain the string. (without actuallyaH >displaying the contents of the record containing the matched string(s). >@K >The output would be very useful to feed into some procedure (for instance, 4 >edit all files containing the string ("chocolate"). >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.o; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)..A >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002n >s ---c& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002  A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be nF legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. ? All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredSA in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,l, Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000. = If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact u the sender of the e-mail. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this C email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact sC Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMTt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:41:54 -0400d! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> " Subject: Re: Suggestion for SEARCH' Message-ID: <3D9870C2.F104D8A7@vcu.edu>   E If anyone needs 'em, I have them  search, replace, etc... (looked andr found ancient  vmsshare archive... 7 parts..-   Jim-   Martin Walker wrote: > N > There is a TECO macro (SEARCH.TEC) available somewhere which uses TECO matchJ > control constructs for its searching.  Not quite regular expressions but > gives flexibility. >  > -----Original Message-----* > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] > Sent: 28 September 2002 14:33T > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb$ > Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCH > ; > Regular espression instead of the string would be useful.c >  > >-----Original Message-----:7 > >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]t+ > >Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:04 PMi > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! > >Subject: Suggestion for SEARCHi > >e > >  > >One should be able to:e > >e1 > >SEARCH/chocolate sys$system:TCPIP*.EXE logfiler > >aK > >and just get a list of files which contain the string. (without actuallynJ > >displaying the contents of the record containing the matched string(s). > >tM > >The output would be very useful to feed into some procedure (for instance,P6 > >edit all files containing the string ("chocolate"). > >M > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C > >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002t > >s > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002 > B > This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may beH > legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise theA > sender immediately by return email and then delete it from yours	 > system.VA > All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredmC > in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, - > Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000.3> > If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact > the sender of the e-mail.rC > The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of thiseD > email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contactE > Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMTs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:37:25 -07002# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCH9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEECFNAA.tom@kednos.com>l  5 Yes, but having support for (Unix compatible) regularl3 expressions gets one step further in justifying thes hyperbolic name _OPEN_Vms>   >-----Original Message-----t) >From: Jim Agnew [mailto:jpagnew@vcu.edu],) >Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:42 AMt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Suggestion for SEARCHs >h >NF >If anyone needs 'em, I have them  search, replace, etc... (looked and >found ancient >vmsshare archive... 7 parts.. >. >Jim >  >Martin Walker wrote:u >>? >> There is a TECO macro (SEARCH.TEC) available somewhere whiche >uses TECO matchK >> control constructs for its searching.  Not quite regular expressions butd >> gives flexibility.  >> >> -----Original Message-----o+ >> From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]   >> Sent: 28 September 2002 14:33 >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >> Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCHt >>< >> Regular espression instead of the string would be useful. >> >> >-----Original Message-----8 >> >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca], >> >Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:04 PM >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " >> >Subject: Suggestion for SEARCH >> > >> > >> >One should be able to: >> >2 >> >SEARCH/chocolate sys$system:TCPIP*.EXE logfile >> >L >> >and just get a list of files which contain the string. (without actuallyK >> >displaying the contents of the record containing the matched string(s).w >> >? >> >The output would be very useful to feed into some procedure  >(for instance, 7 >> >edit all files containing the string ("chocolate").T >> > >> >---r* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >> >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002 >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. = >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C >> Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002l >>C >> This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be-I >> legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise themB >> sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your
 >> system.B >> All electronic communications with the Company may be monitoredD >> in accordance with the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act,. >> Lawful Business Practice Regulations, 2000.? >> If you do not consent to such monitoring, you should contact  >> the sender of the e-mail.D >> The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of thisE >> email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contactoF >> Head Office on (+44)(0)870 749 9000 between 9:00 am and 5:30 pm GMT >* >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).rA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002o >h --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 12:14:41 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: RE: Suggestion for SEARCH3 Message-ID: <sfdkvrd8$hFt@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEECFNAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:u7 > Yes, but having support for (Unix compatible) regularl5 > expressions gets one step further in justifying the  > hyperbolic name _OPEN_Vms. >   A    Only if they're off by default for true upwards compatability.e   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 07:09:08 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>" Subject: Re: UCX security advisory5 Message-ID: <20020930070908.6365.qmail@nym.alias.net>,  8 On 30 Sep 02, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   <snip>  : >Does all this mean we can enter for DEFCON next time? :-)  B Quite. That was a naughty trick changing the rules to exclude VMS.  J >As my Unix colleague said on Friday when I told him of the vulnerability:8 >"It's always mail that's the weakest link, isn't it?"    ! Or - as was the case here - http.T     Doc. -- @6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:48:39 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond), Subject: Re: Upgrade from OpenVMS 6.2 to 7.22 Message-ID: <bvZl9.22$ZM1.514184@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <c6406a41.0209281627.1a0311f6@posting.google.com>, 1 lgemedia@mestre.if.usp.br (Luiz Emediato) writes:D  G >I would like to know if there is a straightforward document explainings; >how to upgrade OpenVMS 6.2 to 7.2 on a VAXstation 4000/60.i& >I appreciate any help on this matter.   Luiz --r  G Have you read the "VAX Version 7.2 Upgrade and Installation Manual" and 8 the accompanying release notes and new features manuals?  # If not, that is what you should do.   J If so, then please explain what you are looking for in a "straightforwaredA document".  Is there something that these manuals do not provide?o   -- aI       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA.H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:53:42 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these).. Message-ID: <3D984956.115E86AE@mindspring.com>   Paul Sture wrote:3  H > Ah yes, but in the same way that the terminal group utilized a productI > produced by another part of the company, someone should have recognized5G > the Multia's potential for use by other divisions within the company.t  - I was "nearby" during those days, working fore& the E&RT (Embedded and Realtime Group,& a group that used to be known as TOEM,& Technical OEM back in the days when it% actually talked to customers and madey money).t  + The world was *VERY* political during thosea* days. Larry Coppenrath (?), the VP who ran* the organization that housed both E&RT and, the Terminals Group wasn't paying attention.- (And he lost his job shortly after the Multias* debacle.) Bill Armitage, the unterveep who+ ran E&RT, was busy pursuing a three-pronged0	 strategy:   %   o Sell VxWorks as our hard-realtimea*      software platform (along with MC68000      and Alpha-based SBCs),@  *   o Sell Digital Unix as our soft-realtime)      software platform and as our VxWorkso      development platform,      o Use Windows everywhere else.  * You'll notice that VMS did not factor into+ his plans at all, even though it used to bet* a *REALLY BIG FACTOR* in the plans of most- of the folks who used to buy things from E&RTR* when it was known as TOEM and used to make. money. (I'd guess that most of them eventually became Solaris customers.)  , Armitage was a bozo, and I left E&RT for VMS/ development shortly after I was told (in almost2. these exact words) to "Sit down and shut up!"., As Ahnold says, "I don't do requests". About+ a week later, I worked for VMS Engineering.r  . There was, IMNSHO, either bad blood or a total/ lack of communication between Larry's world and ' the VMS/Alphaservers world. And VMS was.6 definitely considered nowheresville in Bill Armitage's- subworld. (BTW, I'm speaking of "management". 1 The engineers in all these areas [VMS, Terminals,d1 E&RT] all talked with each other constantly, justw  as they had always done at DEC.)  / It's no wonder they blew Multia. It is a shame,  however.   Atlant    3 P.S.: E&RT was eventually sold-off to a third partyt5 where it recently died, marooning everyone who stayedb4 with it. Anyone know of any good opportunities for a0 fine group of embedded and realtime hardware and software engineers?t  7 Terminals and Printers were also sold off. Last I knew,r6 they still existed within their respective new owners.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:49:46 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these) 2 Message-ID: <_DYl9.14$qI1.386145@news.cpqcorp.net>   Rob Young wrote in message ...E >In article <eaHk9.31$8c5.243847@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge">% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  >> >>>> Robert Deininger wrote: >>>>G >>>> Isn't there some page size restriction that makes systems less theL 2gigs3 >> RAM >>>> almost impossible on EV7 ?4 >>>> >>K >> I don't think so.  EV8 would have only supported 64kb pages, which would I >> have increased the minimum memory, and I think we were talking at thatd point> >> of a 2G minimum.t >>J >> I used to be in the camp that didn't like that, but have been convinced thatH >> memory is cheap enough that I shouldn't care.  I would have preferred Alpha2L >> to have had a 2k or 4k page size in addition to the 8k and up page sizes.E >> It would have allowed smaller, cheaper systems - especially in thea
 >> beginning.  >> >  > Is page 12, found here:y >>6 >www.eecs.umich.edu/vlsi_seminar/f01/slides/bannon.pdf >a > In error?  >  >Virtual Page Size >! Current virtual page size >- 8K  >- 64K >- 512K2 >- 4M5 >1. >! New virtual page size (boot time selection) >- 64K >- 2M  >- 64M >- 512M  >January 4, 2002 >2< > or should that be interpreted to mean in addition to these@ > old (Current) values, you can also specify the following today@ > (or is that some future time?  Seems like a future, after all,* > how practical is a 512 MByte page size?) >f  L EV7 was to be a transitional platform.  In addition to the 8K page size, 64KL page sizes were also to be supported as a boot time option.  I don't believeB any other page sizes were on the table.  I believe that additionalG granularity hint sizes were also to be available - which may be what isb* being referred to as "virtual" page sizes.  5 EV8 would not have supported pages smaller than 64kb.5   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:50:53 GMT 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>-9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)C2 Message-ID: <1FYl9.15$II1.392332@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87u1kbect3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...8 >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >!@ >> JF Mezei wrote in message <3D91FC85.472DD8A1@videotron.ca>... >> >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >.F >> >> The Multia was *never* designed to be ANYTHING but what it was - >> >> a Windows/X terminal.p >e! >> >And therein lies the problem.e >i >> >WHY ???? > @ >> BECAUSE THEY WERE THE TERMINALS GROUP!  They were building anC >> appliance.  They were ahead of their time.  The appliance neededoE >> more things than they really wanted.  They were not building a lowtC >> cost workstation.  The WORKSTATION group was the group with thatnC >> responsibility.  They did not set out to build a general purposetB >> workstation.  Most people felt that it was underconfigured, and: >> underpowered for the task of a general purpose machine. > A >So as we could have bought a Windows `terminal' or a T64 X term, ) >why couldn't we get a VMS secure X term?e >A@ >Oh, yes, not invented here... Again... Anyone remember the moto? >`Digital has it now'? and the refrain `And you can't have it.'i >,/ >At least hp seems to be fixing the first part.r >   L Xterminals by definition were appliances with nothing OS-specific about themD as far as the user is concerned.  This one was also supposed to be a "Windows" appliance.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:56:21 GMTi5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)m2 Message-ID: <9KYl9.16$NG1.354425@news.cpqcorp.net>   Paul Sture wrote in message ... E >In article <WJDk9.13$Xd5.274502@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"l% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:p >> >> Alan Greig wrote in message/ <8qe5pu8no9f28prk1m6gs45durjctftgg5@4ax.com>... 6 >>>On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:41:45 GMT, "Fred Kleinsorge"' >>><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:r >>>s >>>r >>>>K >>>>It never was on any plans ever for VMS.  Nor aside from a few engineers H >>>>suggesting it, do I recall anyone in management or the business side >>>>requesting it. >>>tH >>>And the above paragraph illustrates the problem perfectly. ManagementI >>>were perfectly happy to think about low cost Windows/X systems but not  >>>low cost VMS systems. >>> L >>>>The fact that it was a full machine under the covers made it possible to >> putG >>>>VMS and UNIX on it, but it was not really even considered until thei
 >> product6 >>>>itself "failed" and they were dumping the systems. >>>o@ >>>Again the above paragraph, to me, is indicative of managementB >>>incompetence. Why was it 'not even considered until the productB >>>"failed"'? Could it be because they were "betting the future of7 >>>Digital on Alpha/NT" as the salesdroid put it to me?a >>>l >>I >> You just don't get it.  They were building a "terminal".  They weren'ts >> building a system platform. >> >nG >Ah yes, but in the same way that the terminal group utilized a productrH >produced by another part of the company, someone should have recognizedF >the Multia's potential for use by other divisions within the company. >t  K It was not considered a system capable of general purpose use.  It had veryoA limited expansion and capabilities.  It was relatively slow.  The K workstation group was supposed to be the group charged with low-end generalk purpose systems.  A By your reasoning, if an Alpha was embedded in a copier running a0E Windows-like OS, then we should also have the vision to produce a VMS:I version for it.  This was designed to be an appliance.  You are confusingcL the implementation tactics with some lack of strategic vision.  You are IMHO
 misguided.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:56:34 -0400o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>9 Subject: Re: VMS future (oh not not another one of these)t. Message-ID: <3D986621.260669EA@mindspring.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:M  & > Larry Coppenrath (?), the VP who ran, > the organization that housed both E&RT and > the Terminals Group...  ( No, not Coppenrath. *NOW* I remember who$ he was. (Cutler's lieutenant, IIRC.)  + So Larry somebody-else-I'll-remember-later.o   Atlant   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:13:42 GMTi= From: "Colin Butcher" <colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk>nB Subject: Re: VMS73_LAN-V0300 Alpha V7.3 LAN ECO;  bit of good news= Message-ID: <WK_l9.2969$yE2.29698086@news-text.cableinet.net>    I agree. Looks good.? Fixed auto-negotiation with DE500 in AlphaServer 4100 with 3Comb OfficeConnect 16 port switch.i   -- Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin.s' (colinDOT.butcherAT@xdeltaDOT.coDOT.uk)n    , <lbohan@dbc..spamless..com> wrote in message2 news:lq2apu8kp6u2aufgao6fu7mvk40s8f5t8l@4ax.com... >M* > inre VMS73_LAN-V0300 Alpha V7.3 LAN ECO, > + > I've a PC164 alpha at home w/ DE600 cardss3 > hooked up to a cheapo (unmanaged) NetGear switch.e > - > This ECO was the cure need to get the DE600o= > to stay in 100/full-duplex all the way through/past bootup.c >i, > those of you w/ DE600's, on dated systems,6 > w/ nic duplex/speed issues, running v7.3, might give > this ECO a try ... >4   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:41:11 -0400e+ From: "rob@ NetCarrier" <rob@paychoice.com> * Subject: Re: WASD Security Advisory Issued9 Message-ID: <9QZl9.367$tB6.107352107@news.netcarrier.net>o  L   Well  With the last couple updates for Security  I've been waiting for Bob C's spin on this?o  @                                                              Rob      < "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message( news:3D979D95.9020706@wasd.vsm.com.au...C > [The following message was provided to the info-WASD mailing listrC >   late last week.  It is provided again here in comp.os.vms as ane6 >   advice to non-subscribers using the WASD package.] > # > info-WASD has been quiet of late.e > Well that's about to change! > B > The following is the opening statement from the introduction ... >m >      - YOU MUST APPLY FIXES -a' >      This is MANDATORY UPDATE advice.c >aC >      All sites are at least potentially vulnerable to some or all = >      of the issues described in this and related documents.z >.E > All WASD sites are strongly encouraged to carefully read the advice  > E >    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/misc/wasd_advisory_020925.txt  >lG > and *immediately* apply the relevant updates and configuration fixes.h >a! >    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/- >-  > Further detail is available at >:8 >    http://jl.gailly.net/security/wasd-vuln-2002-09.txt >jG > This information will soon be published via Bugtraq so subscribers tosJ > info-WASD will not be the only ones to know.  I plan an announcement viaG > comp.os.vms this time tomorrow for non info-WASD subscribers.  PleasebC > pass this message along to any you know in that category as well.a > , > My regrets over any issues this may cause. >n > Regards, Mark. > H > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+G >   Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaideoH >   mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)H > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:45:52 GMTh5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r? Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAXa2 Message-ID: <kAYl9.13$QJ1.421994@news.cpqcorp.net>  B sms@antinode.org wrote in message <02092817040323@antinode.org>...A >From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk>e >> Do people prefer: >> A) [miscellaneous crap] >> B) [VMS-useful stuff] >> C) Both.c >o   Bh  F >   I emphatically prefer B, but that may be because I have some smallG >real-world social life, and am easily able to discuss unrelated topicsx? >elsewhere.  I recently saw the following quotation (of suspecte: >authenticity, but definitely true, pithy, and pertinent): >s9 >      "Wise men talk because they have something to say;o: >      fools, because they have to say something." - Plato >lI >   It immediately reminded me of the recent decline of relevance in thisBE >forum, and of David J. (Just-can't-resist-contributing-on-any-topic)h >Dachtera, in particular.u >a  K Bill "It's a slow day, so why not start yet another inflamitory post on whyd I hate Carly" Todd.r  E There are a few of the negative, and prolific posters who I have somegK sympathy for.  They feel that DEC and then Compaq have caused them personalrI grief.  But they have become very focused on these past real and imaginedeK wrongs.  Then there are the "Let's turn this forum into the place to debate.I terrorism, Isreal, and Iraq".  There are better soapboxes than this forumoF for that debate.  Then of course, there is the Sun attack dog, Andrew.  : >   Ideally, this sort of question would never arise here. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:51:59 GMTk9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>n? Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAXe/ Message-ID: <3D9854F7.37B41B50@eps.zko.dec.com>n   B) Technical with a pinch of A)s  J But more importantly I would like for JF Mezei, Bill Todd, Atlant, to shutF up about Bush and abortion, Intells and Apple's and what have you not.' Nothing personal guys, just a few namesrA that show up over and over on my directory listings with rarely ac technical contribution,dC or at least not one I can recognize in the ongoing stream of words.iH Yes you are all smart guys, and yes those are interesting discussions... over a beer, not here!I Myself, and I assume folks like Vaxman and Robert Deininger and Hoff just. want to get inG here every so often, help where we can, learn where we can, and back toa our real jobs.J I actually often prefer the silly writtings of Andrew Sun Harrison as they are somewhatJ pertinent to situations on hand versus the &*(!@#$*(&! abouts politics and past. ? Hmmm, I'd better shut up before I start listing too many names.a   Cheers,p Hein.n       Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Do people prefer:d >r< > A) Evaluation of Digital/Compaq/HP management, speculationB >     about what motivs there were for past decisions, speculationA >     about what future decisions will be, discussions about what1@ >     decisions should be made, analysis of financials etc.etc.. >oF > B) Technical questions and answers about DCL, VMS system management,D >     programming on VMS and VMS capable hardware, discussions aboutH >     which technical features future VMS versions should have etc.etc.. >H
 > C) Both. >n > ?s >e > Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 06:38:26 -0700r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>B? Subject: RE: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAXu9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEDPFNAA.tom@kednos.com>:  9 How about prefixing every subject with the category, i.e.96 A:, B: or C:  that way it would be easy to ignore what you consider irrelevant.   >-----Original Message----- A >From: Hein van den Heuvel [mailto:hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com]o) >Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 6:52 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX >a >i  >B) Technical with a pinch of A) > K >But more importantly I would like for JF Mezei, Bill Todd, Atlant, to shut-G >up about Bush and abortion, Intells and Apple's and what have you not.c( >Nothing personal guys, just a few namesB >that show up over and over on my directory listings with rarely a >technical contribution,D >or at least not one I can recognize in the ongoing stream of words.I >Yes you are all smart guys, and yes those are interesting discussions...a >over a beer, not here!iJ >Myself, and I assume folks like Vaxman and Robert Deininger and Hoff just >want to get in H >here every so often, help where we can, learn where we can, and back to >our real jobs. K >I actually often prefer the silly writtings of Andrew Sun Harrison as theye
 >are somewhattK >pertinent to situations on hand versus the &*(!@#$*(&! abouts politics ande >past.@ >Hmmm, I'd better shut up before I start listing too many names. >  >Cheers, >Hein. >k >n >p >Arne Vajhj wrote:e >p >> Do people prefer: >>= >> A) Evaluation of Digital/Compaq/HP management, speculation C >>     about what motivs there were for past decisions, speculationeB >>     about what future decisions will be, discussions about whatA >>     decisions should be made, analysis of financials etc.etc..e >>G >> B) Technical questions and answers about DCL, VMS system management,rE >>     programming on VMS and VMS capable hardware, discussions aboutkI >>     which technical features future VMS versions should have etc.etc..O >> >> C) Both.  >> >> ? >> >> Arnel >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.p; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).EA >Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002N >- ---I& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.391 / Virus Database: 222 - Release Date: 9/19/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:55:10 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX C Message-ID: <2JYl9.323211$216.13637889@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  F "Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:3D9854F7.37B41B50@eps.zko.dec.com...a! > B) Technical with a pinch of A)  >yL > But more importantly I would like for JF Mezei, Bill Todd, Atlant, to shutH > up about Bush and abortion, Intells and Apple's and what have you not. > Nothing personal guysL  J That's all right, and the fact that I plan to ignore that request won't be personal either.  I I suspect that if you bothered to perform an actual count you'd find that-K Terry is the the person most prone to bring politics into c.o.v.  But don'tlF expect others to ignore it every time he (or some other redneck) does.  K As for other industry players, when their activities seem likely to have an L impact on VMS's future (though admittedly none are as damaging to VMS as itsK owner's are), expect them to be discussed as well.  But feel free to ignore # anything that doesn't interest you.h   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:02:00 GMTl* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAX C Message-ID: <Yz_l9.382726$5r1.18309064@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>I  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:kAYl9.13$QJ1.421994@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...e  I > Bill "It's a slow day, so why not start yet another inflamitory post onY why  > I hate Carly" Todd.i  B Now now, Fred.  I don't hate Carly, and in fact think she has someJ formidable talents:  I just think she's a dishonest and incompetent CEO in) charge of techology that deserves better.W  K She and (earlier) Curly happened to have poisoned the c.o.v. well, and some H people seem more inclined to blame those of us who persist in putting upJ pesky warning signs to that effect and thus (in their view) despoiling theH neighborhood.  When those who poisoned the well take significant, activeF steps to undo the damage (and not before), the warning signs will comeE down - so you'd be more effective devoting your energies to that end.e  J (But it's nice to see that I'm not the only hold-out who can't be bothered' running a spell-checker over messages.)r   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:51:57 -0000i- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) ? Subject: Re: What do the readers want in comp.os.vms / INFO-VAXs5 Message-ID: <92998FBBFwarrenspencer1977@216.168.3.30>o  B arne.vajhoej@mail.tele.dk (Arne Vajhj) wrote in <3D975F3F.7080501 @mail.tele.dk>:a   >Do people prefer: >o; >A) Evaluation of Digital/Compaq/HP management, speculationrA >    about what motivs there were for past decisions, speculations@ >    about what future decisions will be, discussions about what? >    decisions should be made, analysis of financials etc.etc..c >AE >B) Technical questions and answers about DCL, VMS system management,-C >    programming on VMS and VMS capable hardware, discussions abouteG >    which technical features future VMS versions should have etc.etc..9 >2	 >C) Both.w >d >? >  >Arnez >w  L (C) Both.  And as I was once admonished, it's best to direct survey results 4 to your email only, thus avoiding cluttering the ng.   ws   -- l   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)h The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:11:31 +0100,+ From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>l Subject: Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)5 Message-ID: <1033376774.709547@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>   8 I'm back in the office after travel and looking at this:    H In article <3d8f96b4_3@news1.prserv.net>, <aproc5@attglobal.net> writes: > All, <snip>E >I think the problem is not different behaviour of the -x switch, butrL >probably the way You "installed" the new version: apparently the new one is5 >the ZIP_CLI version, but the command is Unix syntax.bI >ZIP for VMS builds in 2 versions, supporting Unix or VMS command syntax. G >If the software issuing the zip command can't be changed, make sure itj invokesSH >the "Unix" syntax version, depending on how the command is "installed",, >as a foreign command or via "set command" ?  K I cannot seem to find anywhere a UNIX build! The link on djesys is down andaG I'm having a total brain drain this morning. Any help on getting a UNIXi0 compatible version would be greatly appreciated!   Cheers   Andy   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2002 13:50:11 +0200' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)n Subject: Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)+ Message-ID: <CMbwm9KIrTbm@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>F  c In article <1033376774.709547@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>, "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com> writes:I: > I'm back in the office after travel and looking at this: >  > J > In article <3d8f96b4_3@news1.prserv.net>, <aproc5@attglobal.net> writes: >> All,j > <snip>F >>I think the problem is not different behaviour of the -x switch, butM >>probably the way You "installed" the new version: apparently the new one iso6 >>the ZIP_CLI version, but the command is Unix syntax.J >>ZIP for VMS builds in 2 versions, supporting Unix or VMS command syntax.H >>If the software issuing the zip command can't be changed, make sure it	 > invokesrI >>the "Unix" syntax version, depending on how the command is "installed",2- >>as a foreign command or via "set command" ?s > M > I cannot seem to find anywhere a UNIX build! The link on djesys is down and1I > I'm having a total brain drain this morning. Any help on getting a UNIXn2 > compatible version would be greatly appreciated!  ) Download the actual version 2.3 e.g. fromp6    ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip  L I think the zip 2.2 distribution was the same in terms of build procedure as the actual 2.3:o6 The common build procedure results in two executables:>    ZIP.EXE     is the one with the Unix command/option syntax,8    ZIP_CLI.EXE is the one with VMS-style /switch syntax.  G The error message in Your original posting was from zip_cli, while the n0 program in question issues a Unix style command.  ' Has zip_cli been renamed to zip.exe, ors; is a symbol "ZIP :== $zip_cli " defined ? Check Your setup.0   --: Joseph "Sepp" Huber, Max-Planck-Institut Physik,Muenchen, : http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber                            ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:06:14 +0100 + From: "Andy Proctor" <aproctor@hotmail.com>l Subject: Re: Zip 2.2 (Again)5 Message-ID: <1033394458.858868@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>a   >W+ > Download the actual version 2.3 e.g. fromA8 >    ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/zip.zip > K > I think the zip 2.2 distribution was the same in terms of build procedurex as > the actual 2.3:i8 > The common build procedure results in two executables:@ >    ZIP.EXE     is the one with the Unix command/option syntax,: >    ZIP_CLI.EXE is the one with VMS-style /switch syntax. >i  7 Working well now with the unix option version of 2.3!!!g   Thanks!!   Andy   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.540 ************************