1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 08 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 193       Contents:+ Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U + Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U 3 Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U (Kook?)  AlphaPC 164XL zone address' Announcing HP Availability Manager V2.3 + Re: Announcing HP Availability Manager V2.3 ' Re: Another day without VMS advertising 1 Anybody running Rally V6.1-0 and VMS V7.3 on Vax? 	 Apologies  Re: bizarre SMTP problem Re: bizarre SMTP problem Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors Re: COV Sponsors DECUS Magazine map of Dungeon?" Re: DECUS Magazine map of Dungeon?  Re: Disappearing CR/LF in editor  Re: Disappearing CR/LF in editor. Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?. Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?. Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?. Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?' Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?   Re: Elvis has left the building!  Re: Elvis has left the building!  Re: Elvis has left the building!  Re: Elvis has left the building! Elvis has left the building! ES47  with OpenVMS 7.3-1 Re: FA: VMS Laptop Bag  Re: ftp_mirror and TCPIP servers4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.# HSD50 running Firmware v5.7d Issues 
 HSZ40 woes> Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bust> Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bust> Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bust- Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem - Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem  LUV VMS  Re: LUV VMS  Re: LUV VMS  Re: LUV VMS  Re: More about Alpha emulator  Re: More about Alpha emulator  Re: More about Alpha emulator : Re: Mozilla 1.3 hangs all Mozilla windows on POP3 download Re: Multinet 4.4 patches Re: Multinet 4.4 patches  Re: national moratorium...thread? Re: New Training Class -  OpenVMS  Performance Management Class ? Re: New Training Class -  OpenVMS  Performance Management Class 3 New version of FTP_MIRROR is available for download I Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online I Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online P Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online & OnliP Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online & Onli1 Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers 1 Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers 1 Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers 1 Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers - No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers 1 Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers  NTP problems after time change" Re: NTP problems after time change" Re: NTP problems after time change" Re: NTP problems after time change NY LUG meeting SAN over IP OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?  Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?  Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?  Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)? P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Re: OT: Apologies & OT: Bill Gates murdered in Los Angeles) Re: Remote File Transfer (RFT) - TERADYNE  Re: Resetting error count  Resetting error count  Re: Resetting error count  Re: Resetting error count ( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.$ SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.( Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work., Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client update0 Re: Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client update0 Re: Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client update/ Re: So much for Opteron 32bit compatibility ...  Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS Re: tcpip Programming / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process / Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process  Re: unix Re: unix Up and running!  VAX/Alpha VMS differences  Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences . Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?. Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?. Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?: WE ACCEPT!!! Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei> Re: WE ACCEPT!!! Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei- Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei - Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei - Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei - Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei . Re: [very OT] Re: Elvis has left the building!* [very OT] Re: Elvis has left the building!  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:47:26 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com 4 Subject: Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U1 Message-ID: <03040714472655@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    Forget this!   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:46:52 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com 4 Subject: Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U1 Message-ID: <03040714465216@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   H > Hello all. I think I made a mistake with the time change this weekend.@ > I hadn't realized that TCPIP 5.1 apparently has the ability toG > automatically change the time so I had submitted a batch job for 2:00  > am to set the time.    (1) + Check SYSGEN parameter SHOW AUTO_DLIGHT_SAV   . V7.3 will automatically move the time for you.     (2) Adjust the UTC value. # @sys$manager:utc$configure_tdf SHOW * @sys$manager:utc$configure_tdf SET 'value' (looks like you have)       (3) Check your NTP parameters:  K The logical TCPIP$NTP_CONF points to SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.CONF 
 (DEFAULT).  K Make sure your peer references are correct.  Are you pointing to a non-time 5 server?  Are the servers available?  (PING it).  etc.   " Just some thoughts, not much help.   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:49:15 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com < Subject: Re: 3R-A0487-AA     TL891 10 Slot Rackmt 4U (Kook?)1 Message-ID: <03040714491508@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   6 Does this mean I am nominated for KOOK of the MONTH???   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  " Date: Mon,  7 Apr 03 11:30:05 +100 From: rok@nuk.uni-lj.si # Subject: AlphaPC 164XL zone address $ Message-ID: <3e916145@NUK.Uni-Lj.Si>   AlphaPC 164XL SRM console:  
 >>>memtestG 00000000 is not a valid zone address.  Use dynamic to list valid zones. 
 >>>dynamicF zone     zone       used    used       free    free       utili-  highG address  size       blocks  bytes      blocks  bytes      zation  water L -------- ---------- ------- ---------- ------- ---------- ------- ----------H 00038130 786368     333     230432     30      555968      29 %   295104 >>>memtest -sa 00038130 G 00000000 is not a valid zone address.  Use dynamic to list valid zones.  >>>   I I found nothing about zones either in AlphaPC 164LX Motherboard Technical K Reference Manual or Alpha SRM Console for Alpha Microprocessor Motherboards 
 User's Guide.   4 The beast just freezes and I would like to know why.   Regards,  D Rok Vidmar                       Internet:  rok.vidmar@nuk.uni-lj.si; National and University Library  Phone:     +386 1 421 5461 ; Turjaska 1, SI-1000 Ljubljana    Fax:       +386 1 421 5464  Slovenia   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 11:55:39 -0700 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 0 Subject: Announcing HP Availability Manager V2.3< Message-ID: <857e9e41.0304071055.52469f9@posting.google.com>  G The HP Availability Manager Team is pleased to announce HP Availability F Manager (AM) V2.3. HP Availability Manager is a system management toolH that, from an OpenVMS Alpha or a Windows 2000 or XP node, enables you toF monitor one or more OpenVMS Alpha or VAX nodes on a local area networkE (LAN). This tool helps system managers and analysts target a specific ' node or process for detailed analysis.    F This release includes both new features and bug fixes. See the release8 notes for details. A short list of the new features is:   2 1.	AM has reached functional parity with DECamds. C 2.	The Data Analyzer has a moderate performance improvement on both *             OpenVMS and Windows platforms.3 3.	The window turn rate for disks is now supported. ; 4.	The NOPROC, LOVOTE, and LOVLSP events are now supported. I 5.         A new display, the CPU Process State Summary Display, has been              added.    D Kits and documentation can be downloaded from the following website:  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/availman/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 16:42:26 -0700 , From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)4 Subject: Re: Announcing HP Availability Manager V2.3= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0304071542.12fbe181@posting.google.com>   p Douglas Hoeger <Douglas.Hoeger@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<crfu8v0n9eu5qg9733aohnk11rvbca9826@4ax.com>...< > The HP Availability Manager Team is pleased to announce HP ...   3 I tried to download using Mozilla on OpenVMS Alpha. 8 I get an "unknown error" at the end of the transmission.D I can download to a Windows PC and then FTP to OpenVMS; but I prefer$ doing my work on OpenVMS when I can.  I Is there an FTP site along with a checksum such as how I download patches C so that I can verify the integrity and completeness of my download?   
 Thank you.   Jim Strehlow Data911  Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:48:58 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 Subject: Re: Another day without VMS advertising. Message-ID: <3E91498A.5020209@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 1 > news:b6k93k$68tfi$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  > 5 >>In article <Hc$Vpf01R9rQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? >>koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >>8 >>>In article <b6k23q$63tbf$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, >>, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > A >>>>I noticed an HP ad on the back cover of my latest copy of Dr.  >>>  > Dobbs. > ? >>>>It is pushing Itanium Workstations.  Mentions RedHat Linux,  >>> 
 > Windows and  >  >>>>Unix, but no VMS.  >>> ? >>>   Reasonable, since VMS isn't shipping on them yet.  HP has  >>
 > sounded off  > , >>>   on VMS I64 in more appropriate places. >>>  >>B >>Immediate availability has never been a problem in this business > 	 > before.  > @ >>In another life the team I was working with once lost a bid to > 	 > Digital  > C >>when my employer bid a Prime 50 Series and Digital bid a model of  >  > the  > E >>VAX that wasn't scheduled to exist for at least a year.  We ran the C >>requested benchmarks.  Digital ran them on a current VAX and then  > 	 > applied  > E >>a multiplier they said would be the expected increase in speed when  >  > they > 3 >>actually had one of those machines.  Digital won.  >  >  > A > IBM did exactly that for years...announce early and ship later.     " Why the past tense, they still do.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:08:23 -04005 From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqmunicorn@y12unicorn.doe.gov> : Subject: Anybody running Rally V6.1-0 and VMS V7.3 on Vax?+ Message-ID: <b6sib8$rd$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>   J I am in the process of looking at a possible VMS upgrade from V7.1 to V7.3J on one of our Vax systems.  We have an application that uses Rally V6.1-0,D but have dropped support for the Rally product sometime back.  I wasG wondering if anybody out there has upgraded VMS without upgrading Rally L beyond this point.  We will be testing this on our development system to seeC if it will work, but it would be nice to find out that somebody has  previously crossed this bridge.    --
 Dale A. Marcy  VMS System Manager5 SAIC - Science Applications International Corporation 
 (865)576-4942    Berra's Universal Law - 2 "Before everything changed, it was all different."   Hint to reply by e-mail:% Everyone knows there are no Unicorns.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 02:16:01 -0300 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Apologies/ Message-ID: <3E91097E.59E44BEF@vl.videotron.ca>   M just to apologize for the spam that I have been inflicted with, thanks to the N anonymous remailer,s inlcuding MIT ! (and I thought MIT was a respectable one,G they run 2 of these, one under the nnym.alias.net and another under the  mit.edu domains.  I I have, as before, sent complaints to the relevant persons, and expect no  response as usual.  N I ave now widthdrawn participation in the other newsgroups. The NNTP terrorist has won, unfortunatly.  K I have also warned that Alan Erskine fellow to stop replying to those posts ( otherwise I would report him to his ISP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:58:50 -0300 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: Re: bizarre SMTP problem / Message-ID: <3E91BC57.69BC5B6B@vl.videotron.ca>    Oh and for your problem:    # Do you have SMTP relaying enabled ? L If so, you can specifically allow certain machiens in the SMTP configuration  6 in the [Sys0.tcpip$smtp]smtp.congig file, you can put: Good-Clients: 10.0.0.0/8  H for instance, which will allow anyone in the 10.* subnet to "relay" even- though the smtp service is set to to norelay.    Another thing to check:  TCPIP> SHOW SERV SMTP/FULL  > Check to see if yo have accept host: or reject host: defined.   L Another thing you could try, from your AIX machine, try to TELNET to port 25N of you VMS host to see what happens.  (bike.chocolate.com is the smtp  server,  mac.chocolate.com is the client)    you should see, upon connection:K recv: 220 bike.chocolate.com V5.3-18D, OpenVMS V7.2 VAX ready at Mon, 7 Apr  2003 14:25:40 -0400  send: EHLO chocolate.com  Q recv: 250 bike.chocolate.com Hello MAC.chocolate.com, pleased to meet you, friend * send: MAIL FROM <john.cocoa@chocolate.com>1 recv: 250 <john.cocoa@chocolate.com>... Sender OK   F From the looks of your AIX log file, you don't seem to even get there.    * oh, and there is another logical I forgot:& $define/system TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG 1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:28:53 -0300 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: Re: bizarre SMTP problem / Message-ID: <3E91B554.96DADF2C@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote: G > like an SMTP traceroute---is there a way to get a similar output from I > a VMS client (increasing the SMTP logging level will presumably show me ! > this on the VMS server side)?):   3 DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_LOG_LEVEL 2			( 2 3 or 5 )   DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_NOSEY 1' $ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE 1 ) $ DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$SMTP_SYMB_TRACE 1		 5 (logs the actual SMTP dialogue when sending messages)   > You must then $TCPIP STOP MAIL   followed by $TCPIP START MAIL    8  TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG	--- when VMS sends messages outM  TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG --- when VMS receives messages (one transaction per  file it seems)   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:34:38 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: COV Sponsors = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0304071134.32bd1104@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E91874B.4080604@nospamn.sun.com>...  > Bill Todd wrote:L > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:yxPAO8oS8uZI@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > > < > >>In article <3E8D403C.42CF8F63@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei > > - > > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > > L > >>>What is involved in porting from AIX to Linux if all the middleware andK > >>>commercial packages exist on both ? Woudln't a port be fairly simple ?  > >>D > >>   UNIX hype of that type rarely plays out in a real world port. > E > Depends what you define as inexpensive. Solaris x86 is cheaper than C > most Linux distributions. Red-Hat ES which supports up to 2 CPU's J > costs ~400 dollars, AS >2 CPU's 1400 dollars. Solaris x86 which supportsI > 8 CPU's costs 95 dollars much cheaper and it runs on the same hardware.  > E > So it has a lower TCA than most commercial Linux distros and a much  > lower TCO. > G > But all we are talking about is a kernel here, Linux is just a kernel C > with various OpenSource non Linux layered products, shells, libs,  > compilers etc. > H > The shells, libs and compilers all run on almost any UNIX and many non > UNIX variants. > F > So we end up with discussion about which is the most suitable kernel3 > to support a particular set of utilites and apps.  >   B > If 95 dollars seems like a good deal to you then use Solaris x862 > why bother paying much more for less with Linux. >   	 > regards  > Andrew Harrison   ? and why bother paying more for both slowaris and linux ... they > all lack security, of course that costs extra, when VMS has it@ built right in, and with the best clustering also built in, your5 TCO blows all the unix/linux/windoze garbage away ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:56:14 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors , Message-ID: <3E914B3E.50405@nospamn.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote: o > qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) wrote in message news:<71367ac8.0304021011.69264b58@posting.google.com>...  > D >>If we are going to discuss a truly unique offering in the industry# >>then we should be talking TANDEM.  >>? >>FAULT TOLERANT.  Not just 5x9 highly available, but NON STOP.  >  > G > Yes, let's discuss truly-unique offerings in the industry.  I'll take H > a DISASTER tolerant VMS cluster over a FAULT tolerant system any day. E > And lots of other folks are thinking that way as well, particularly ? > after 9/11.  (And that may be why the NonStop folks have been E > announcing a set of products recently to provide disaster tolerance  > for NonStop systems.)  >   9 Since you are talking about two entirely different things 9 with entirely different capabilities chosing one over the ) other is a very very pointless excercise.   < You cannot guarantee not to lose a transaction in a disaster8 tolerant VMS cluster without middleware or apps that are> designed to avoid this. You cannot guarantee that an interface7 serial, SS7 etc will always be serviced with an OpenVMS  cluster.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 15:45:37 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 3 Message-ID: <HaEzeVf3KAAC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3E918490.80309@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > F > We supply a Linux run environment for Solaris x86 which allows LinuxI > apps to just run without porting. So that claim is demonstrably untrue.  >   E    And you personnaly have seen real life apps ported in this way how     many times?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:45:16 -04000 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com> Subject: Re: COV Sponsors $ Message-ID: <3e91f16d$1@news.si.com>   >Where is Hudsonville?  # A little west southwest of Jenison!  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:51:03 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 2 Message-ID: <t8WdnWH2OINXbwyjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Nuo1LVgRjj8x@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <nAOdnVGAn9nHUhCjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > K > > That's because it involves porting from one vendor's Unix to another's.  InG > > the case above, IBM controls both the source and to some degree the J > > destination (in terms of freedom to enhance it as required), and is in anI > > excellent position to ensure the transparency of the port if it wants  to.  > J >    Did you ever do a port from Ultrix-MIPS to OSF/1?  Fror Sun OS on 68K to5 >    Solaris on SPARC?  From HP-UX on 68K to HP-PARC?  > @ >    AIX runs on big-endian systems, most copies of Linux run on
 little-endian J >    machines.  I'm not sure what platforms IBM is pushing Linux on today,+ >    but that can be quite a porting issue.   G Whoops - that last is an excellent point, and exactly the same one that 7 applies to the proposed Tru64 -> 'enhanced' PH-UX port.   F But it only applies to a port to a little-endian Linux such as IA32 orJ x86-64 Linux.  POWERx normally runs big-endian, and if Linux on POWER doesH then that at least provides one same-endian Linux porting option for IBME customers (though not the kind of inexpensive one that IA32 or x86-64 / would - those would require endian-clean code).    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 07:43:43 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 3 Message-ID: <Nuo1LVgRjj8x@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <nAOdnVGAn9nHUhCjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > M > That's because it involves porting from one vendor's Unix to another's.  In E > the case above, IBM controls both the source and to some degree the K > destination (in terms of freedom to enhance it as required), and is in an K > excellent position to ensure the transparency of the port if it wants to.   K    Did you ever do a port from Ultrix-MIPS to OSF/1?  Fror Sun OS on 68K to 3    Solaris on SPARC?  From HP-UX on 68K to HP-PARC?   L    AIX runs on big-endian systems, most copies of Linux run on little-endianH    machines.  I'm not sure what platforms IBM is pushing Linux on today,)    but that can be quite a porting issue.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:00:48 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors , Message-ID: <3E918490.80309@nospamn.sun.com>   Alan Adams wrote: 3 > In message <nAOdnVGAn9nHUhCjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net> 7 >           "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  >  > J >>"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ >>news:yxPAO8oS8uZI@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >>; >>>In article <3E8D403C.42CF8F63@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei  >>+ >><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >>K >>>>What is involved in porting from AIX to Linux if all the middleware and J >>>>commercial packages exist on both ? Woudln't a port be fairly simple ? >>> C >>>   UNIX hype of that type rarely plays out in a real world port.  >>M >>That's because it involves porting from one vendor's Unix to another's.  In E >>the case above, IBM controls both the source and to some degree the K >>destination (in terms of freedom to enhance it as required), and is in an K >>excellent position to ensure the transparency of the port if it wants to.  >>M >>IBM and Sun seem to be following similar strategies in this area:  position E >>Linux as their inexpensive low-end offering, with compatible growth K >>potential to their higher-margin proprietary upper-end products, plus the J >>patina of 'standardness' courtesy of the Linux aspect.  If Linux becomesJ >>wildly popular, they're ready; until then, they retain their high-marginL >>business plus a compatible low-end extension that (because right now LinuxN >>*isn't* really yet applicable to the high end) doesn't compete directly with >>it.  >> >>- bill >  > N > And the above porting efforts will still be harder than the VMS Vax to AlphaN > port, never mind the Alpha to Itanium, which for most users looks like being > simpler still. >  >    Humm  D We supply a Linux run environment for Solaris x86 which allows LinuxG apps to just run without porting. So that claim is demonstrably untrue.   D Of course you need to re-compile for SPARC because the vast majorityA of Linux apps are x86, but since Solaris SPARC alson support GLib # GCC etc this is an easy propostion.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:12:27 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors . Message-ID: <3E91874B.4080604@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:J > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:yxPAO8oS8uZI@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > : >>In article <3E8D403C.42CF8F63@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei > + > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > J >>>What is involved in porting from AIX to Linux if all the middleware andI >>>commercial packages exist on both ? Woudln't a port be fairly simple ?  >>B >>   UNIX hype of that type rarely plays out in a real world port. >  > M > That's because it involves porting from one vendor's Unix to another's.  In E > the case above, IBM controls both the source and to some degree the K > destination (in terms of freedom to enhance it as required), and is in an K > excellent position to ensure the transparency of the port if it wants to.  > M > IBM and Sun seem to be following similar strategies in this area:  position E > Linux as their inexpensive low-end offering, with compatible growth K > potential to their higher-margin proprietary upper-end products, plus the J > patina of 'standardness' courtesy of the Linux aspect.  If Linux becomesJ > wildly popular, they're ready; until then, they retain their high-marginL > business plus a compatible low-end extension that (because right now LinuxN > *isn't* really yet applicable to the high end) doesn't compete directly with > it.  >   C Depends what you define as inexpensive. Solaris x86 is cheaper than A most Linux distributions. Red-Hat ES which supports up to 2 CPU's H costs ~400 dollars, AS >2 CPU's 1400 dollars. Solaris x86 which supportsG 8 CPU's costs 95 dollars much cheaper and it runs on the same hardware.   C So it has a lower TCA than most commercial Linux distros and a much 
 lower TCO.  E But all we are talking about is a kernel here, Linux is just a kernel A with various OpenSource non Linux layered products, shells, libs,  compilers etc.  F The shells, libs and compilers all run on almost any UNIX and many non UNIX variants.  D So we end up with discussion about which is the most suitable kernel1 to support a particular set of utilites and apps.   ? If you don't want to pay anyting at all then you can download a ? free Linux distro but this won't have the capabilities of ES or < AS from Red Hat for example, this is also fine if you have aB low CPU count and you only care about single threaded performance.  @ If 95 dollars seems like a good deal to you then use Solaris x860 why bother paying much more for less with Linux.  ? This view is very different from IBM's who don't have a version B of AIX that runs on x86 hardware after the cancelation of MonterayD and who don't seem convinced about the capabilites of the AIX kernel	 vs Linux.    regards  Andrew Harrison          > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:54:28 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors . Message-ID: <3E918314.2060009@nospamn.sun.com>   Keith Parris wrote: o > qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) wrote in message news:<71367ac8.0304030450.27195c3e@posting.google.com>...  > 0 >>is Tuxedo still supported and 'up to date' ??. >  > g > Certainly is.  See http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=platforms.htm&FP=/content/products/tux/specs/    Umm that isn't entirely true.   = Tuxedo 8.1 the current version doesn't appear to be available  for OpenVMS.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 19:40:28 -0500 + From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)  Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 3 Message-ID: <ZSLRiVg2j3I0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A1DDAB.6A71CEDD@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: s > In article <cf15391e.0304031600.1819a2bb@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: o >>qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) wrote in message news:<71367ac8.0304030450.27195c3e@posting.google.com>...  >>>  * VMS people are expensive 7 >>>  * VMS people are difficult to find in an emergency  >>F >>You're out of touch here.  This was true up through the Y2K efforts,G >>but VMS expertise is readily available today, and with the surplus of 0 >>talent, prices have correspondingly come down. > / > That's right.  VMS people are cheap and easy!  >   ! Hey!  I resemble that remark!  ;)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:07:00 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: COV Sponsors 5 Message-ID: <1030407225817.2426A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   < On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   >  >  > Alan Adams wrote: 5 > > In message <nAOdnVGAn9nHUhCjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net> 9 > >           "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > >  > > L > >>"Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > >>news:yxPAO8oS8uZI@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >>= > >>>In article <3E8D403C.42CF8F63@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei  > >>- > >><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > >>M > >>>>What is involved in porting from AIX to Linux if all the middleware and L > >>>>commercial packages exist on both ? Woudln't a port be fairly simple ? > >>> E > >>>   UNIX hype of that type rarely plays out in a real world port.  > >>O > >>That's because it involves porting from one vendor's Unix to another's.  In G > >>the case above, IBM controls both the source and to some degree the M > >>destination (in terms of freedom to enhance it as required), and is in an M > >>excellent position to ensure the transparency of the port if it wants to.  > >>O > >>IBM and Sun seem to be following similar strategies in this area:  position G > >>Linux as their inexpensive low-end offering, with compatible growth M > >>potential to their higher-margin proprietary upper-end products, plus the L > >>patina of 'standardness' courtesy of the Linux aspect.  If Linux becomesL > >>wildly popular, they're ready; until then, they retain their high-marginN > >>business plus a compatible low-end extension that (because right now LinuxP > >>*isn't* really yet applicable to the high end) doesn't compete directly with > >>it.  > >>
 > >>- bill > >  > > P > > And the above porting efforts will still be harder than the VMS Vax to AlphaP > > port, never mind the Alpha to Itanium, which for most users looks like being > > simpler still. > >  > >  >  > Humm > F > We supply a Linux run environment for Solaris x86 which allows LinuxI > apps to just run without porting. So that claim is demonstrably untrue.   @ And exactly how does that help porting AIX to Linux?  Or Solaris? to Linux, for that matter?  The claim you are disputing is that @ it is harder to port from a proprietary Unix to Linux than it is@ to port from VAX VMS to Alpha VMS, with an aside that it will be3 still easier to port from Alpha VMS to Itanium VMS.   F > Of course you need to re-compile for SPARC because the vast majorityC > of Linux apps are x86, but since Solaris SPARC alson support GLib % > GCC etc this is an easy propostion.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:38:41 -0500E From: "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com>L' Subject: DECUS Magazine map of Dungeon? 2 Message-ID: <IbacnXyz6_yhcwyjXTWcog@speakeasy.net>  K Does anyone, by some miracle, have a clean copy or original they could scaniL and upload of the Dungeon Map printed in an old DECUS magazine? I think this; is from '79 or '80, but I'm going on second-hand info here.M   David C    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:38:06 -0500E From: "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com>n+ Subject: Re: DECUS Magazine map of Dungeon? 2 Message-ID: <CnGdnW6iyJrYhQ-jXTWcpw@speakeasy.net>  H "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com> wrote in4 message news:IbacnXyz6_yhcwyjXTWcog@speakeasy.net...H > Does anyone, by some miracle, have a clean copy or original they could scanI > and upload of the Dungeon Map printed in an old DECUS magazine? I think  this= > is from '79 or '80, but I'm going on second-hand info here.l >   K It seems it's in the November 1982 issue of The Dec Professional. If anyoneeK has this issue, is there any chance you could scan the Dungeon map and passS	 it along?e   Thanks,    David C    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 00:03:29 -0300u0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: Disappearing CR/LF in editori/ Message-ID: <3E90EA78.79F520EA@vl.videotron.ca>P  
 dooley wrote:u= > Fortran uses a single character at the start of each recorduK > eg. "1" means newpage so insert a formfeed before printing then <cr><lf>,a  J > Print carriage control uses a 2 byte header - I think one byte indicatesB > if the control should be applied before or after printing, whileA > the other byte contains the number of lines to feed (in binary)p  M Thanks. i was familiar with the "fortran" one, ironically from using Cobol oniJ IBM mainframes, as well as Pascal and IBM 370 assembler on MUSIC operating) system at school (ran on IBM mainframes).r  L Question: would CONVERT with the appropriate FDLs properly convert the files from one format to another ?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 08:35:38 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: Disappearing CR/LF in editor 3 Message-ID: <UW8lFV9zJWYr@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  c In article <1ca82fc6.0304061932.53c89be6@posting.google.com>, dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) writes: i > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E8DB8E4.9FB0E937@vl.videotron.ca>...r >> Poiter wrote:K >> > File attributes:    Allocation: 805, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0 ) >> >                     No version limitnQ >> > Record format:      VFC, 2 byte header, maximum 100 bytes, longest 100 bytes 4 >> > Record attributes:  Print file carriage control >> rN >> OK, when TPU saves the file, I suspect it will change the attributes to the4 >> "standard" variable format without print control. >> GM >> As I recall, the "print file carriage control" dates from the fortran dayseN >> where the first byte of a record has special meaning. Some characters wouldP >> skip a line, others skip to a new page, some would not skip a line (overwrite >> previous line)pO > The carriage_control attribute can be carriage_return,fortran,none, or print.e > = > Fortran uses a single character at the start of each recordeK > eg. "1" means newpage so insert a formfeed before printing then <cr><lf>, G >     "+" means overwrite so insert <cr> before printing then <cr><lf> BK >     "0" means double spaced so insert <lf> before printing then <cr><lf> A2 >     " " means normal so just print then <cr><lf>  7 Not quite. There is no line feed after printing a line.t@ The line feeds come out before the next line.  Overstrike pretty! much wouldn't work any other way.   ? You can suppress the trailing <cr> with a "$" format item, thuswA allowing you to do things like prompting in the middle of a line.p  F The leading line feed is automatically suppressed on the first line of a file.i  D And a trailing line feed is automatically generated at image exit if you're running on a terminal.T   $ type test.for &         options         /extend_source         implicit        none           call lib$wait ( 5.0 ) &         write ( 6, '(a)' ) ' hi there'         call lib$wait ( 5.0 ) &         write ( 6, '(a)' ) ' hi there'         call lib$wait ( 5.0 )r&         write ( 6, '(a)' ) ' hi there'         call lib$wait ( 5.0 )s         end    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:42:30 -0400% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>r7 Subject: Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?s/ Message-ID: <v91pcngfj9knc3@news.supernews.com>i  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3E90C4A7.4332B46A@firstdbasource.com... > Charlie Hammond wrote: > >AF > > In article <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKOEPNCOAA.win@fom.fgan.de>, "Rudolf" Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: > > >Hello,K > > >tH > > >today I did show an OpenVMS novize the SET TIME command. Within the HELP IK > > >did see that a legal year specification for Alpha is 1957 to 2056 (ford( > > >OpenVMS vax from 1858 to 9999). ... > >!H > > This is a documentation error.  Alpha will accept dates outside this range. > > Here is an example:2 > >0 > >     $ sho time > >        2-APR-2003 08:58:27  > >     $ set time = 02-apr-4321 > >     $ sho time > >        2-APR-4321 00:00:02 > >gH > > As explained further along in the help entry, if you enter a 2 digit year,b3 > > it will be assumed bo be between 1957 and 2056.  > H > IMHO, anyone still using 2 digit date codes is not the brightest lightA > bulb in the room. Storage and memory is so cheap (comparativelylB > speaking) that this issue should have died a couple years ago... >e  J The full year is always stored.  You can enter a 2 digit year but VMS willB expand that to the full year when it's stored.  This is completelyI reasonable.  Surely you can't expect people to enter the leading "20" for  the next 97 years.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:03:19 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u7 Subject: Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?T; Message-ID: <01KUGI76PG9IAH2P35@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  H > IMHO, anyone still using 2 digit date codes is not the brightest lightA > bulb in the room. Storage and memory is so cheap (comparativelyeC > speaking) that this issue should have died a couple years ago... b  I True, cheap they are.  Is it true that that was the reason why two-digit  I years were originally used in a lot of software, or was it just the lack  G of realising that the software might still be running in the year 2000?a  I Of course, virtue is relative.  The heirs of our code will remark on our :) short-sightedness in using 4-digit years.o  D Seriously, I suspect that the inertia is caused not by exaggerrated D thrift, but by the effort to re-write stuff which assumes two-digit  years.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 07:59:04 -05002; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a7 Subject: Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem? 3 Message-ID: <CYAC$UtFLLKK@eisner.encompasserve.org>3  W In article <v91pcngfj9knc3@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:  > L > The full year is always stored.  You can enter a 2 digit year but VMS willD > expand that to the full year when it's stored.  This is completelyK > reasonable.  Surely you can't expect people to enter the leading "20" for- > the next 97 years.  
    Yes I can.-   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 23:41 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)07 Subject: Re: Do OpenVMS Alpha have a Year 2057 problem?m, Message-ID: <7APR200323412988@gerg.tamu.edu>  ) "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes...rK }The full year is always stored.  You can enter a 2 digit year but VMS willsC }expand that to the full year when it's stored.  This is completelydJ }reasonable.  Surely you can't expect people to enter the leading "20" for }the next 97 years.l     Yes, I can expect that.   C Surely you can't expect people to enter the leading "Jo" every timeF they send you an e-mail.  B If the year is 2003 then enter 2003. Nothing could make more sense
 than that.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 11:31:14 -0700b1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)50 Subject: Re: Earth to Andrew, do you get it now?= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304071031.41a0ac97@posting.google.com>   m qwqwqwqw70@hotmail.com (Jon Power) wrote in message news:<71367ac8.0304011251.24376d14@posting.google.com>...X  > who would take the risk of newE > development on RTRV3?. It may be better than Tuxedo or MQSeries ...iH > but they are mainstream and the same problems can be solved with all 3 > products.l  C No one would develop today on RTRV3, because the current version is. 4.2.  + RTR even has had Java support added (jRTR).t  C And while Tuxedo and MQSeries and RTR are all middleware, and all 3sF can pass messages, it is incorrect to assume that therefore any of theE 3 can be used for any problem.  For example, the design of Tuxedo ando= MQSeries are such that they aren't really usable for disastervB tolerance.  They also can't do transaction shadowing like RTR can.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:55:57 -0600/ From: "Mike Speegle" <mikespeegle@netscape.net>t) Subject: Re: Elvis has left the building!d5 Message-ID: <b6sl3v$81u90$1@ID-130573.news.dfncis.de>e  6 Alan Erskine alanerskine@optusnet.com.au <Alan Erskine# alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> typed:c  >     Asshole, you don't post a person's personal info.  Period. <plonk>@ -- n Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:43:52 -0500s* From: "Chuck Stewart" <zapkitty@gmx.co.uk>) Subject: Re: Elvis has left the building! 6 Message-ID: <pan.2003.04.07.20.43.42.684080@gmx.co.uk>  7 On Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:55:57 +0000, Mike Speegle wrote:h  8 > Alan Erskine alanerskine@optusnet.com.au <Alan Erskine% > alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> typed:o  @ >     Asshole, you don't post a person's personal info.  Period.    	 Alan did?c  O >> Comments: This message probably did not originate from the above address.   fO >> 	    It was automatically remailed by one or more anonymous mail services.  -O >> 	     You should NEVER trust ANY address on Usenet ANYWAYS: use PGP !!!     H: >>  	  Get information about complaints from the URL below   Oh no! Don't do it!  	 > <plonk>8   Ack...   It's an old troll trick., Always check full headers before plonking,..   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:12:13 +0100  From: p557@hotmail.com) Subject: Re: Elvis has left the building!e8 Message-ID: <lsm39v83mo3h2tv23ofn6hpruthavb1uhj@4ax.com>  F On 7 Apr 2003 21:03:49 +0100, Alan Erskine alanerskine@optusnet.com.au wrote: >(Q >And while you're at it, why not write or call his parents too and let them know  K >how you feel about them letting JF live at home without getting a job and n! >trolling on usenet all day long:w     <plonk>>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:31:01 -04008 From: "Rhonda Lea Kirk" <rhondaleakirk@worldnet.att.net>) Subject: Re: Elvis has left the building!>5 Message-ID: <b6sraa$8kaek$1@ID-181658.news.dfncis.de>    p557@hotmail.com said:, > On 7 Apr 2003 21:03:49 +0100, Alan Erskine > alanerskine@optusnet.com.aui > wrote: >>D >> And while you're at it, why not write or call his parents too and@ >> let them know how you feel about them letting JF live at home= >> without getting a job and trolling on usenet all day long:n >c >e	 > <plonk>t  D I'm sure you'll undo that plonk when you read a bit further down the thread.   F Here is a link that will be of help to others who might wish to appear more discerning:   http://www.samspade.org/   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 21:03:49 +0100 . From: Alan Erskine alanerskine@optusnet.com.au% Subject: Elvis has left the building! 9 Message-ID: <QYCO3ZHR37718.8764351852@Gilgamesh-frog.org>n  @ In comp.os.vms JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  N >just to apologize for the spam that I have been inflicted with, thanks to theO >anonymous remailer,s inlcuding MIT ! (and I thought MIT was a respectable one,yH >they run 2 of these, one under the nnym.alias.net and another under the >mit.edu domains.y >oJ >I have, as before, sent complaints to the relevant persons, and expect no >response as usual.l > O >I ave now widthdrawn participation in the other newsgroups. The NNTP terroristi >has won, unfortunatly.  >nL >I have also warned that Alan Erskine fellow to stop replying to those posts) >otherwise I would report him to his ISP.i  N Is this like all the other times you've left before, only to turn up the next O day, fresh faced and bushy tailed to start flooding the groups with the cum of m) your mental masturbations all over again?   M Oh, and as for reporting people to their ISPs, all complaints regarding your m5 trolling and newsgroup flooding should be directed toA   		abuse@videotron.ca  P And while you're at it, why not write or call his parents too and let them know J how you feel about them letting JF live at home without getting a job and   trolling on usenet all day long:   Mr. and Mrs. Mezei 86 Harwood Gaten Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 
 (514)697-5096.   -- Alan Erskine alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au The Coalition of the Willing,e against the Axis of Evil,  In a War of the Damned   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:06:59 +0200, From: "Toine Dirven" <tdirven@volvocars.com>! Subject: ES47  with OpenVMS 7.3-1o3 Message-ID: <b6si8n$prp1@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>-   Hello,  G At the moment I have a cluster with two ES45 alpha servers with OpenVMS< 7.3-1.- I just want to replace one ES45 with an ES47.S Is this possible ?# I'm using Rdb 7.01 en Oracle 8.1.7..  & Is anyone using an ES47 with OpenVMS ? How is the performance ?  L Now I have a ES45 with 4 CPU's of 1250 MHz and a lot of cache but I have CPU performance problems.p1 Is an ES47 with 4 CPU's of 1000 MHz much faster ?s  
 Best regards,o   Toine Dirven Volvo Cars Gentn Belgium1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:47:59 -0700 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> Subject: Re: FA: VMS Laptop Bago, Message-ID: <3E91B9CF.6090109@NelsonUSA.com>   Homer J. Simpson wrote:rG > Be the first on your block to carry your Itanium laptop in a VMS bag!e > ? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3411872626t  E This is getting ridiculous.   Why don't you just pack up the contentscE of your garage/basement and send it to me?   That way I wouldn't have5- to keep bidding for everything on eBay?   :-)5   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 00:22:56 -0300A0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: ftp_mirror and TCPIP serversm/ Message-ID: <3E90EF05.79137AD8@vl.videotron.ca>o   Hunter Goatley wrote: F > Yep; TCP/IP Services doesn't support the STRU O VMS transfer method.   TCPIP 5.3 on VAX seems to say: STRU <sp> File | Recordp      I If I issue a STRU FILE command , my mac can fetch an indexed file and the:K start of the file contains some data about the keys. If I send it back, the / file is created as a fixed 512 sequential file,t   BUT:   If I  M SET FILE the file.dat/ATTRIB=(org:IDX,rfm:fix,mrs:338,lrl:338)  then the filee4 is again healthy and usable with the 2 keys etc etc.  P (so one needs to find out what the record length is for the file and apply this.  I Looks to me like the STRU FILE does $READS to read raw data, whereas STRUIL Record does $GET (and recoprocal $WRITE and $PUT) but actual file attributes aren't transfered.  N This is one of the weaknesses of VMS. Apple had, very early on, set a standardH for MACBINARY where the data and resource forks would be transfered in aI standard way. VMS should have had a PUBLISHED standard for transfeing VMS-N files with the raw data (with $READ/$WRITE) as well as the format for the file structure info.:  E I guess we are still suffering from the very proprietary days of VMS.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:33:31 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>4= Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.eG Message-ID: <%_fka.79606$pNv.1671@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s  D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.homeportal.2wire.net> wrote in message& news:cr4ja.78368$Zo.17885@sccrnsc03...B > In article <cpgp8v4di5r06hf3mmfrh6m5oc4jiiu81g@4ax.com>, Gary L.& Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com> writes:F > >What version of Visio has DEC/Compaq boxes in it?  It would help to5 > >have this for documentaion of the system.  Thanks.y >oD > I don't use it any more, but there was a version (V5 or 6???) that had DECnE > boxes listed in the *network* equipment section, rather than in theo "normal"+ > place that you would expect to find them.4    E Any idea whether it is possible to 'import' the 'older' version icons > into a newer version of Visio if they are no longer shipped by
 Microsoft?   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:00:30 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)= Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.u/ Message-ID: <yghka.395808$S_4.464149@rwcrnsc53>t  m In article <%_fka.79606$pNv.1671@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:n >pE >"Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.homeportal.2wire.net> wrote in messagea' >news:cr4ja.78368$Zo.17885@sccrnsc03... C >> In article <cpgp8v4di5r06hf3mmfrh6m5oc4jiiu81g@4ax.com>, Gary L.6' >Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com> writes:wG >> >What version of Visio has DEC/Compaq boxes in it?  It would help to 6 >> >have this for documentaion of the system.  Thanks. >>E >> I don't use it any more, but there was a version (V5 or 6???) thath >had DECF >> boxes listed in the *network* equipment section, rather than in the	 >"normal"., >> place that you would expect to find them. >, > F >Any idea whether it is possible to 'import' the 'older' version icons? >into a newer version of Visio if they are no longer shipped byo >Microsoft?a  I I don't have any access to it any more, so I can't answer this question. 66 Anyone out there currently using Visio who can answer?   >  >   A _________________________________________________________________h0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:45:53 -0500 , From: Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com>, Subject: HSD50 running Firmware v5.7d Issues8 Message-ID: <lug49v8mfd07lf9jasc4h2v7imiqg1kkrq@4ax.com>  @ We upgraded our HSD50 controllers from v5.2 to v5.7d so we could@ upgrade VMS from 6.2-1H3 to 7.2-2 and we're now experiencing the following issues.t  B 1.)  Our Quantum DLT4700 tape drive nows says it is an unsupported.       device.  Here is the exact wording . . .  2 Error 9370: A DLT4700    is an unsupported device.5   Tape switches can not be set on unsupported devicesi  B 2.)  We can no longer boot from our "normal" DUA controller but weA can boot from DUB.  We have 2 KFPSA adapters in our 4100 and eache- of them are connected to an HSD50 controller.p  8 Why did these things change or did I do something wrong?   Gary L. Ross Park Nicollet Health Services3 rossgl@parknicollet.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:27:17 -0500e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: HSZ40 woes42 Message-ID: <3E924195.8934F26@applied-synergy.com>  < I did an experiment here this weekend and now need some help& straightening out the results.  <sigh>  G I was investigating support options for an HSZ50.  Since we had a spareAD HSZ40 (actually, a SWXCR-05), I suggested that it could be used as a backup.e  G We tested that this weekend.  The HSZ40 was working properly.  Shutdown0E and remove the HSZ50 and its cache.  Install the HSZ40 in its place. o Power backup up.  H The HSZ40 booted fine, but had the configuration for its old box.  So, I; started with a "SET THIS_CONTROLLER INITIAL_CONFIGURATION"..  8 After the HSZ40 rebooted, its licenses were all INVALID!  H One odd think I noticed was that when setting the initial configuration,E the HSZ40 reported that it was loading the configuration from a driveoD that had SAVE_CONFIGURATION set, but it didn't actually load the newH configutation.  Could trying to load a HSZ50 configuration hose a HSZ40?  C Also, I didn't notice before this, but "SHOW THIS" reports that theXD controller is a SWXCR-04 when it is really a SWXCR-05.  (What is the* difference between a -04 and -05 anyways?)  @ The serial number on the controller is still set correctly.  TheB controller seems to work correctly, it just doesn't have any valid licenses anymore.e   The HSZ40 is running V31Z-4.   So my questions are:   What causes this?a  ! How can the licenses be restored?d  H Were there any controllers sold that didn't have these licenses enabled?   Thanx!    G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com S   Fax: 817-237-3074m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:38:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> G Subject: Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bustaH Message-ID: <O3gka.79644$pNv.62566@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  @ "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in5 message news:8lFVUM90oDKb@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > In articleC <Bqija.37622$pNv.20975@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johno Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:n > > F > > The cost of porting is being paid by Intel, so it's not HP's money > > that's being spent.t >g$ >    Says who?  (Reference, please).     Looking.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:41:03 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> G Subject: Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bustKH Message-ID: <36gka.79665$pNv.59840@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA68544A9@tahiti.tinuk.com...hD In the UK the adverts carry NONE of the OS's that HP sells, they areE just generic ads showing customer names and how they have helped each 4 other. Perhaps the promotion is different elsewhere.    F On this side of the pond, the print ads run about 75-80% with specificE o/s mentions and the remainder are general HP 'feel good' ads with no- o/s mentioned.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:42:04 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>G Subject: Re: Inquirer: HP's Alpha RetainTrust programme a complete bustl2 Message-ID: <IUOdnQdK-4sybQyjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:O3gka.79644$pNv.62566@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >HB > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in7 > message news:8lFVUM90oDKb@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > > In articleE > <Bqija.37622$pNv.20975@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Johne! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:b > > >rH > > > The cost of porting is being paid by Intel, so it's not HP's money > > > that's being spent.e > >.& > >    Says who?  (Reference, please). >. >e
 > Looking.  E Thanks - I'm curious myself.  While Intel has made it clear that it'siI willing to pay for ports to Itanic, and while it seems entirely plausiblemI that part of the Alphacide agreement involved paying for the VMS port (if>K only because Compaq has shown so little interest in funding *any* long-termtD VMS development - and given the expressed intention of keeping AlphaK available for several years the actual need for a port definitely qualifies>K as long-term), I don't know of any hard evidence to that effect (aside from>E vague comments from Compaq honchos at the time of the Alphacide aboutoH significant numbers of pieces of silver they were getting from Intel for it).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:23:13 -0700 - From: graff@cfa.harvard.edu (Gareth Williams)u6 Subject: Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem= Message-ID: <47980844.0304071123.69fbf706@posting.google.com>l  A briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message <spam@spam.com> writes:e/ news:<FAlodYZ1buxs@eisner.encompasserve.org>...uH > If we assume that the relevant file is SYSUAF or RIGHTSLIST (extremely. > likely) then there is an obvious workaround: > H > Open both files yourself for READ/WRITE access with READ/WRITE sharing > and hold them open forever.e > E > Now, whoever is gumming up the works by opening up those files with E > exclusive access will have problems in _HIS_ application.  You willcG > be unaffected because LOGINOUT.EXE is using proper shared file accesst
 > techniques.   <   I implemented your suggestion about opening SYSUAF.DAT and? RIGHTSLIST.DAT for myself and holding them open.  The two fileso@ are opened early in the boot-up sequence by a job submitted into@ a sponge queue that opens the files and then just loops around a1 WAIT 23:00:00 statement to ensure they stay open.o  ?   This seemed to cut down the number of "File locked" problems.0? But we're still seeing situations where the "File locked" errore? will occur consistently over a period of a minute or more.  Are8A there any other files accessed by LOGINOUT.EXE apart from the two6 mentioned above?        Gareth    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 15:21:58 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: LOGINOUT.EXE locked by other user problem3 Message-ID: <R8D+4G7cPgNT@eisner.encompasserve.org>U  m In article <47980844.0304071123.69fbf706@posting.google.com>, graff@cfa.harvard.edu (Gareth Williams) writes:nC > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message <spam@spam.com> writes:t1 > news:<FAlodYZ1buxs@eisner.encompasserve.org>... I >> If we assume that the relevant file is SYSUAF or RIGHTSLIST (extremely / >> likely) then there is an obvious workaround:f >> aI >> Open both files yourself for READ/WRITE access with READ/WRITE sharing  >> and hold them open forever. >> eF >> Now, whoever is gumming up the works by opening up those files withF >> exclusive access will have problems in _HIS_ application.  You willH >> be unaffected because LOGINOUT.EXE is using proper shared file access >> techniques. > > >   I implemented your suggestion about opening SYSUAF.DAT andA > RIGHTSLIST.DAT for myself and holding them open.  The two files B > are opened early in the boot-up sequence by a job submitted intoB > a sponge queue that opens the files and then just loops around a3 > WAIT 23:00:00 statement to ensure they stay open.S > A >   This seemed to cut down the number of "File locked" problems.lA > But we're still seeing situations where the "File locked" erroraA > will occur consistently over a period of a minute or more.  ArenC > there any other files accessed by LOGINOUT.EXE apart from the twoa > mentioned above?  B Hmmm.  Primary input and output for the job itself.  Maybe the CLI2 tables (e.g. SYS$SHARE:DCLTABLES.EXE) and DCL.EXE.  D Accounting and audit data go through a mailbox, so it can't be that.A Login command procedures execute after LOGINOUT.EXE has finished.hA So it can't be that.  It's barely possible that it's LOGINOUT.EXE A running at _logout_ time and having problems closing an open filel: but I'm not guru enough to see a plausible scenario there.  D If you're building input files on the fly, you could have contentionC for a new version of the input file while the previous job is still. starting up.  E Or if you could conceivably be getting contention on the output file,  though that seems less likely.  D It's been a while and I don't remember your exact symptoms any more.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:36:34 GMTc, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: LUV VMS: Message-ID: <Syjka.257$2i6.255@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>  A At least that's what his car says. Spotted 4-apr-2003, northboundr> highway 101 near Palo Alto, CA.  If it's our VMS then it looks like someone has a job!.  ( See: http://www.mkaz.com/tmp/luv_vms.jpg   Jim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:58:04 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: LUV VMS5 Message-ID: <b6sho4$8joej$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>s  9 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht/4 news:Syjka.257$2i6.255@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...C > At least that's what his car says. Spotted 4-apr-2003, northbounda@ > highway 101 near Palo Alto, CA.  If it's our VMS then it looks > like someone has a job!  > * > See: http://www.mkaz.com/tmp/luv_vms.jpg >. > Jimr >K. With a nice pay check, considering the car :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:30:06 -0500e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s Subject: Re: LUV VMS' Message-ID: <3E92261E.4C0D67DF@fsi.net>o   James Gessling wrote:h > C > At least that's what his car says. Spotted 4-apr-2003, northbounde@ > highway 101 near Palo Alto, CA.  If it's our VMS then it looks > like someone has a job!  > * > See: http://www.mkaz.com/tmp/luv_vms.jpg  E Have you perchance a friend at the DMV who could find out the owner'shH identity? ...and could you then maybe write me privately and ask if it'sB Virtual Memory System, Voluntary Milking System, Vendor Management System, etc. ?   -- t David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 04:16:27 GMT + From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>e Subject: Re: LUV VMS2 Message-ID: <BAB79B2A.6EE5%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  L On 4/7/03 6:30 PM, in article 3E92261E.4C0D67DF@fsi.net, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > James Gessling wrote:w >>  D >> At least that's what his car says. Spotted 4-apr-2003, northboundA >> highway 101 near Palo Alto, CA.  If it's our VMS then it looksg >> like someone has a job! >> 4+ >> See: http://www.mkaz.com/tmp/luv_vms.jpg> > G > Have you perchance a friend at the DMV who could find out the owner'sdJ > identity? ...and could you then maybe write me privately and ask if it'sD > Virtual Memory System, Voluntary Milking System, Vendor Management > System, etc. ?  K Seen on the 405 South Between the 710 (Long Beach) and the 55 (Costa Mesa), K M-F from 6-7 AM is a silver Mercury Villager Min-van with license CMKRNL. IeL guess he doesn't make as much money as the VMS vete, but there is no mistake what he is into.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:17:35 -0700u1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) & Subject: Re: More about Alpha emulator= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304071117.588ece3d@posting.google.com>r  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E908114.BA58E316@vl.videotron.ca>...p9 > The only problem with this is what happens when the VMSuH > engineers are forced to make Alpha-VMS mature and stop developing it ?  D That's where the common-source-code decision really begins to shine.  E During the VAX-to-Alpha transition, the Alpha code base was separatedlC from the VAX code base.  Initially this allowed VAX features to run>@ ahead of Alpha unfettered (e.g. V6.0), but also meant that extraC effort was needed in the early years for Alpha features to catch upiC with VAX, and years later, now it means it takes an extra step (andiF thus extra effort) for any new features developed for Alpha to also be included for VAX.8  > With the common source-code base that exists between Alpha andB Itanium, any new features developed on Alpha in the next few years? will be included on Itanium by default, and in the more-distantlF future, new features developed on Itanium will be included on Alpha byC default, unless extra effort is taken to specifically exclude them.a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:31:43 -0400. From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@iglou.com>& Subject: Re: More about Alpha emulator) Message-ID: <3e91b5ff$1_3@news.iglou.com>s  = "Timothy Stark" <sword7nospam@speakeasy.org> wrote in messaged, news:xOadnQVkyNrruhKjXTWcrg@speakeasy.net... >nD > According to AlphaPC technical manuals, I now am looking for AlphaJ > Motherboards SDK kit.  On Digital/Compaq/HP site, I was looking for that butaJ > only found SDK manuals.  Does anyone know where is that to get or order?  5 It's about US$80, and is order Number QR-21B02-03....>   hth, -doug qb   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:13:16 -0500o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: More about Alpha emulator' Message-ID: <3E92222B.E074DF8A@fsi.net>i   Timothy Stark wrote: > [snip]D > According to AlphaPC technical manuals, I now am looking for AlphaN > Motherboards SDK kit.  On Digital/Compaq/HP site, I was looking for that butJ > only found SDK manuals.  Does anyone know where is that to get or order?  E In another thread, a poster suggested that a lesson in data retention E could be taken from my report that a CD-R blank decided to delaminater and shed the reflective layer.  @ I suggest Tim's post shows the kind of "can do" and "rise to theG challenge" spirit that could raise VMS from the wreckage of its currentnD life to a place very near the heights of greatness VMS once enjoyed.  1 If only... (I'm sure I don't need to finish that)e   -- e David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 20:40:24 -0700r& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)C Subject: Re: Mozilla 1.3 hangs all Mozilla windows on POP3 downloady= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0304071940.378d9679@posting.google.com>h  k jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote in message news:<cc5619f2.0304070950.574d83c5@posting.google.com>...r] > Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> wrote in message news:<3E915BCC.8020400@theblakes.com>... " > > Sounds similar to bug 198294?? > @ > Symptoms are the same, but I've had it happen when only simpleC > messages (no attachments) are waiting in the POP mail box, and it > > happens upon downloading, not when (sounds like in that bug, > apparently) reading them.( >   E More testing.  Got a hang when downloading from Speakeasy.net.  Three D messages, none with attachments.  The success message was displayed,? and when I checked with webmail, the messages had actually beenrD deleted from the ISP (which means the hang occurred after completion@ of the POP3 transaction, I believe, since the delete is the last piece).0  F I think that makes this a different bug.  I got my bugzilla login, but, just won't have time to do any more tonight.   Rich Jordane CCS    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:30:26 -04000 From: "Brian Tillman" <Tillman@sparkingwire.com>! Subject: Re: Multinet 4.4 patches $ Message-ID: <3e91edf3$1@news.si.com>  : >This is a bit off-topic, but why use an ISP, why not hook@ >directly into Sprint ot Abovenet or someone like that?  What do9 >you use an ISP for that you couldn't do better yourself?e  G Especialy one (Genuity) whose life-blood appears to be kowtowing to the.	 SPAMmers.A -- eI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot come5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991i8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:00:05 +0000 (UTC)) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net>1! Subject: Re: Multinet 4.4 patchesd3 Message-ID: <slrnb93ilk.bmk.dsf@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>r  l In article <3ff5fed3.0304070824.6d741a6e@posting.google.com>, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote: > H > The phone company has replaced our T1 hardware, and our network issues7 > appear to be resolved now.  Thanks for your patience!   I Incredible - difference is about 1000x faster when comparing the 'before'o0 and 'after' testing. :) Thanks for the heads up!   -Dan   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 18:19:40 -0700g. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)) Subject: Re: national moratorium...threadt= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0304071719.233068bb@posting.google.com>   ^ david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b6rmo1$gpe$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0304061807.6b326098@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:N > >G Everhart <ge@gce.com> wrote in message news:<3E6DE240.8080306@gce.com>...R > >> Someone posted that those Arabs who remained in 1948 were "live and let live"" > >> folks and those who left not. > >> h > >gI > >You have an overly simplistic view of the situation. Before Israel was0I > >born, there was immigration of both Jews and Arabs. Arab opposition toeG > >Jewish immigration turned violent in 1920, 1921, 1929, and 1936. You I > >have conviently omitted those facts. And Jews were there before any ofC > >that, also. > >sC > >You make it sound like the Arabs were always there (they weren'tEI > >before 600 A.D.), no one else was there, and the Jews just came out ofwI > >nowhere and pushed them all out. That's a bunch of nonsense. Jews haveEC > >maintained a more or less continuous presence there for a longereG > >period than the Arabs. It is the Arabs who tried -- and failed -- to  > >push the Jews out.h > > / > I think you are confusing Arabs with Muslims.uQ > The Arabs have been in the area for as long as the Jews. According to scripture21 > both Arabs and Jews are descendents of Abraham.1    E Well, is that based only on scripture or is there some other evidencedD for that? I don't think there is. I think the farthest back that the< history as given in the Bible can be reasonably corroboratedF independently by history and archaeology and such is the reign of King Saul.     O > Muslims obviously weren't there before 600AD since Islam wasn't founded untilu6 > that time but that doesn't mean Arabs weren't there.    F Well, my source for this, the 2001 World Almanac, says, "Arab invadersF conquered Palestine in 636". I assume that means there weren't a wholeA lot of Arabs there before that, but I could be wrong. And was any9D group of people even called Arabs much before that? Just asking. You1 hear about Babylonians, and Assyrians, and so on.@    vL > In 638 AD after the Moslem conquest of the Jerusalem - held at the time byH > Christians - the Palestinian Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem.    A Interesting. That certainly wasn't the case for the 20th century.u    N > The Jews were obviously living under Moslem rule but then that seems to haveN > been pretty much the normal state of affairs. For most of history Israel andO > Judea have been under the control of Philistines (Seapeople from the Aegean),oH > Assyrians, Babylonians, Syrians, Persians, Greeks, Egyptians, Romans,  > Christians and Muslims.e    3 And the common thread here is that Jews were there.     rH > From 638AD apart from brief periods of Christian rule (eg the CrusaderG > periods and British rule during the last century) Muslims have ruled iM > Jerusalem. During the Crusader period the Christians kicked the Jews out of-K > Jerusalem and they were then invited back again by Saladin when he retook@
 > Jerusalem. n > ) > For a timeline of Jewish History see :-  > - > http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/history/body1.htmD     Thanks for the new reference.e     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanw   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:05:25 -0700 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)tH Subject: Re: New Training Class -  OpenVMS  Performance Management Class= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304071105.56b0e8e1@posting.google.com>o  h prosullivan@aol.com (PROSULLIVAN) wrote in message news:<20030406185549.29589.00000494@mb-fq.aol.com>...H > Of course at $3250 a seat, how many seats will HP need for make money?  F HP is not presenting this class -- it is being presented by The Parsec> Group, which is one of HP's (greatly-appreciated) VMS trainingE partners (which also include BRUDEN and MindIQ, plus Global Knowledget outside the US).  C HP Educational Services also offers VMS training now -- see the VMSa= website, under OpenVMS Training, near the bottom of the page.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:23:49 -0400e+ From: Thomas BOURKE <bourke_tm@spamcop.net>tH Subject: Re: New Training Class -  OpenVMS  Performance Management Class1 Message-ID: <BAB7B905.4FB6%bourke_tm@spamcop.net>   H On 4/6/03 18:55, in article 20030406185549.29589.00000494@mb-fq.aol.com,* "PROSULLIVAN" <prosullivan@aol.com> wrote:  I >> This five day class will be held April 28 and costs $3250.  It will be4F >>> taught by Wayne Sauer, who is the author of the curriculum and hasH >>> taught Performance Management to the VMS Enginering Group in Nashua, >>> NH.  >  > ...e > P > For Europeans you are looking at $10k + by the time you have flown over there.  - Were on earth did you get that figure from???m  L Being from Europe - and already over here for a few years... I can't see howL anyone would manage to spend $6750 in hotel and travel costs travelling fromK Europe - especially in the current climate. Heck the investment bank I used = to work for blew away first class travel nearly a decade ago!   K Anywau, Expedia.co.uk gives a return flight and hotel for less than GBP 600n3 - say 850 greenbacks and about the same in Euros...f  I So I think any sane boss would see through someone's $5900 pay rise quitea quickly!   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 22:08:41 -0700r) From: munroe@csworks.com (Richard Munroe)t< Subject: New version of FTP_MIRROR is available for download< Message-ID: <8d09fa7.0304072108.4d6cdaa2@posting.google.com>  D FTP_MIRROR is a command procedure that allows mirroring of ftp sitesE using any number of different clients against any number of differentpA servers (details are discussed in the kit).  This release fixes a0@ problem that occurs when file names get very long which winds upF overflowing the DCL command buffers on older versions of OpenVMS.  The  new kit is available by HTTP at:  #     http://www.csworks.com/downloadi   Use it in good health.   Dick Munroee  3 p.s. I'm looking for work.  My CV is available fromuD http://www.csworks.com/cv.  Take a look and if you see a match, drop1 me a line and lets discuss what I can do for you.T   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 15:54:12 -0000>4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>R Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online6 Message-ID: <20030407155412.30160.qmail@gacracker.org>  K On 7 Apr 2003, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)t wrote: >In article.J ><BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF403FB5BF1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:  I >> Perhaps the flow of quotes was mixed up by my MS Outback mail utility?g  N >That's why you may want to switch to an NNTP feed, with appropriate software,E >or see if Outlook can be configured to follow newsgroup conventions.r  G Outhouse Express can be fixed with the addition of OE-Quotefix, but I'duI guess it's the full-blown version of Microsoft's email virus distributionl kit Kerry uses. ;-}   9 One of the better freeware Windows newsreaders is X-News.e  <URL:http://xnews.newsguy.com/>.     Doc. -- e: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nete   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 13:36:55 -0400< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>R Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online5 Message-ID: <b6scvo$89raq$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>g   Main, Kerry wrote: >...; > While this may change in the future, I am currently stuckt with sending, > "plain text" emails via my Outback client. >e >...  2 Kerry, to make your posts easier to read try this;     In Outlook     Click on Tools     Click on Options"     Click on the Preferences panel     Click on E-Mail Options   7 Under "On replies and forwards" set "When replying to av< message" to "Prefix each line of the original message." Then5 make sure ">" is in the "Prefix each line with:" box.m  ; Your message will still be plain text and you will still bet: using Outlook, but it would make us readers a lot happier.   -- Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.w) Serving Southern Ontario/Western New Yorke   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:03:20 +0100o' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancytY Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online & Onlip. Message-ID: <3E91AF58.9000203@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote: > Simon, > H > I am certainly open to suggestions, but like a number of others on theF > newsgroup, email is my preferred method of accessing the list (using
 > rules etc).  >   8 Use Netscape then, its an email client but its perfectly2 happy producing sensibly formatted news responses.  3 Alternatively if you are stuck with Exchange Server 2 plus group calendaring then Ximian Evolution could6 be a better choice it will also improve your security.   Regardsi Andrew Harrisonb  H > While this may change in the future, I am currently stuck with sending, > "plain text" emails via my Outback client. > 	 > Regardsl >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicest > Voice: 613-592-4660W > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMr >  >  > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubley,8 > [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]  > Sent: April 7, 2003 8:26 AMw > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComDI > Subject: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product &e > Online >  >  > In articleJ > <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF403FB5BF1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>- > , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:c >  >>JF - >>G >>You must have mixed up the posts as the person who said that was not a >>me . >  > J > I believe that was exactly JF's point. The way that you respond to postsJ > means that when _your_ posts are responded to, it becomes very difficult > to follow who is saying what.g > I > Not only are you posting at the top of the article, but much worse, you I > are not using a quote character on the original text, instead includingo* > it as is at the bottom of your response. > J > Can you seek advice from someone within HP and get access to a NNTP feed > ?p > ) > Here's a _good natured_ prompt for you:s > > > Andrew Harrison's software is capable of following newsgroupF > conventions. Are you going to let him claim that he can do something > that you cannot ? :-)  >  > H >>Perhaps the flow of quotes was mixed up by my MS Outback mail utility? >> >  > E > That's why you may want to switch to an NNTP feed, with appropriatezC > software, or see if Outlook can be configured to follow newsgroupI > conventions. >  > Simon. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 10:15:57 -0700s9 From: "gregc at gregcagle.com" <"gregc at gregcagle.com">.Y Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online & Onli / Message-ID: <v93ciggb1drb6c@corp.supernews.com>t  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  : > Use Netscape then, its an email client but its perfectly4 > happy producing sensibly formatted news responses.  5 Using Netscape (or anything but Outlook) inside of HPs; is a challenge from a support and configuration standpoint.   5 > Alternatively if you are stuck with Exchange Servera4 > plus group calendaring then Ximian Evolution could8 > be a better choice it will also improve your security.   Not on Windows, it isn't.T   - Greg (using Mozilla, btw). -- t
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:51:10 GMT , From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>: Subject: Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers: Message-ID: <yMjka.261$sn6.142@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>  : "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message1 news:yGeka.37919$ii.28261@twister.nyroc.rr.com...r# > I haven't seen this posted, so...- >-H > I've received a notice that HP will not be providing the Write HistoryH > Logging/Mini-Merge capability solution on any fiberchannel controller. TheeL > effort to provide it on the HSG80 has been discontinued.  The HSG80 assistF > firmware is complete, the issue is that the OpenVMS portion was more complex7 > than first estimated.. > C This is very bad news.  In a multi-site cluster this is an absolutes
 necessity forc using these controllers.  L This has been explicitly promised on the "Cluster" road map.  But then, from the title slide:  L "HP makes no warranties regarding the accuracy of any information disclosed"  L I guess I may be foolish to hold out hope for VMS, but I can't help but feel thatK this is just the first of many promises to be broken.  I suppose it will be 	 blamed onr1 that most cruel of reasons "a business decision".n   Jimo   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:38:10 -0700?1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) : Subject: Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304071138.591fa3a8@posting.google.com>f  n "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message news:<yGeka.37919$ii.28261@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...H > I've received a notice that HP will not be providing the Write HistoryH > Logging/Mini-Merge capability solution on any fiberchannel controller.  D I think this decision was a difficult one, but was the best decision> for the long term, as its goal is to provide a VMS-host-based,B controller-independent solution.  It was starting to look like theA HSG80 mini-merge capability wouldn't be available until after theTC end-of-life of the HSG80 itself!  Now the resources that would haverE been tied up doing HSG80-only mini-merge can be redirected to workingiB on the host-based mini-merge capability, and get that out the door
 more quickly.,  D VMS in the past has been too dependent on proprietary hardware (e.g.E VAX or Alpha CPUs, CI interconnect, MSCP controllers) for some of its D strongest features.  Moving these features into VMS itself, allowingC one to have the same advantages on industry-standard hardware, is aa great way to go.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:49:13 GMTd/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>a: Subject: Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers7 Message-ID: <dvlka.40045$ii.16789@twister.nyroc.rr.com>0  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0304071138.591fa3a8@posting.google.com...9< > "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message3 news:<yGeka.37919$ii.28261@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...6J > > I've received a notice that HP will not be providing the Write HistoryJ > > Logging/Mini-Merge capability solution on any fiberchannel controller. >r [snip]# > Now the resources that would have G > been tied up doing HSG80-only mini-merge can be redirected to workingnD > on the host-based mini-merge capability, and get that out the door > more quickly.e [snip]   Keith,  E I agree that the functionality being proposed will be better than the J original HSG80-only solution, but a lot of people have been banking on the original proposal/timeframe.  G From what I was told, a completion timeframe won't be known until June.-H Perhaps I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like it will make V7.3-2.  I'dK hate to think that we'd have to wait until after the IPF port was complete.4   -Jeffe   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:53:11 GMT / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) : Subject: Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers- Message-ID: <c8s9ai9iP$8b@cuebid.zko.dec.com>g  1 "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> writes:eI > A new solution that expands the Host-Based OpenVMS Mini-Copy feature toeA > include Mini-Merge is being considered.  This would work on all J > fiberchannel solutions including, I assume, HP's competitor's solutions.  E It should work on all disks, period.  Older, MSCP-speaking (CI, DSSI) : disks will continue to use controller-assisted mini-merge.  C The above (mini-merge on all disks) is not a committment; the only oF committment is that the new host-based mini-merge will work on HSG80, F EVA, etc . . . controllers, but we are designing host-based mini-mergeC with the expectation that it will be completely controller-neutral.S   --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:03:26 GMTe/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>n6 Subject: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers7 Message-ID: <yGeka.37919$ii.28261@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   ! I haven't seen this posted, so...n  F I've received a notice that HP will not be providing the Write HistoryK Logging/Mini-Merge capability solution on any fiberchannel controller.  TheeJ effort to provide it on the HSG80 has been discontinued.  The HSG80 assistL firmware is complete, the issue is that the OpenVMS portion was more complex than first estimated.   G A new solution that expands the Host-Based OpenVMS Mini-Copy feature to-? include Mini-Merge is being considered.  This would work on allmH fiberchannel solutions including, I assume, HP's competitor's solutions.   -Jeffg   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:09:34 GMTs/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)e: Subject: Re: No WHL/mini-merge on fiberchannel controllers- Message-ID: <RFnGlwIJfEdn@cuebid.zko.dec.com>c  1 "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> writes:rI > From what I was told, a completion timeframe won't be known until June. J > Perhaps I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like it will make V7.3-2.  I'dM > hate to think that we'd have to wait until after the IPF port was complete.-  K The port will not have a material impact on the development schedule; thoseoF of us who are working on host-based mini-merge are not deeply involved with the porting effort.  N We will have a better handle on the schedule in June; the HSG80 implementationM would not have been ready for V7.3-2 even if we had we continued that effort.8  I When host-based mini-merge is available, it will be for V7.3-1 and V7.3-2 I via the standard patch kit mechanism.  There will be no further backport,v; just as the HSG80 work was to have been V7.3-1 and forward.e   --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.come   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 11:12:31 -0700 , From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)' Subject: NTP problems after time changer= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0304071012.24437676@posting.google.com>:  F Hello all. I think I made a mistake with the time change this weekend.> I hadn't realized that TCPIP 5.1 apparently has the ability toE automatically change the time so I had submitted a batch job for 2:00g? am to set the time. I thought everything was OK until I startedrB noticing NTP startup console messages every 5 minutes. Here is the message:  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   8-APR-2003 11:59:17.19  %%%%%%%%%%%$ Message from user INTERnet on SHAGGY= INTERnet ACP NOLISTEN Process creation success: Service - NTPi    @ I searched through C.O.V. and the FAQ and based on that, I tried( deleting the config files and re-runningC sys$manager:utc$time_setup.com. I then restarted NTP but the resulta
 was the same.   * Here is the output from TCPIP$NTP_RUN.LOG:  &  8 Apr 11:59:17  ntpd version = 3-5.91D  8 Apr 11:59:17  tickadj = 97, tick = 976, tvu_maxslew = 99231, est.	 hz = 1024b%  8 Apr 11:59:17  precision = 976 usece9  8 Apr 11:59:17  read drift of 3.340 from TCPIP$NTP_DRIFT 7  8 Apr 12:04:10  synchronized to 204.123.2.5, stratum=1eE  8 Apr 12:04:11  time error -86399.400627 is way too large (set clocke	 manually)t    # Here are the time-related logicals:    (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  +   "SYS$DST_DELTA_TIME" = "ffff61fcb9fbcbdf"lC   "SYS$LOCALTIME" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM.US]MOUNTAIN."t&   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DAYLIGHT_SAVING" = "1"(   "SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL" = "-21600"   "SYS$TIMEZONE_NAME" = "MDT"r7   "SYS$TIMEZONE_RULE" = "MST7MDT6,M4.1.0/02,M10.4.0/02"N   "TCPIP$BIND_TIMEOUT" = "...."l  . The machine is running VMS 7.3 and TCPIP 5.1.   D The time set on the machine is the new MDT time. If I set it back to8 the MST time, I don't get the error messages. Any ideas?   Thanks.f Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:48:15 -0500h From: brandon@dalsemi.coma+ Subject: Re: NTP problems after time changeA1 Message-ID: <03040714481520@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>t  H > Hello all. I think I made a mistake with the time change this weekend.@ > I hadn't realized that TCPIP 5.1 apparently has the ability toG > automatically change the time so I had submitted a batch job for 2:00r > am to set the time.t   (1) + Check SYSGEN parameter SHOW AUTO_DLIGHT_SAVb  . V7.3 will automatically move the time for you.     (2) Adjust the UTC value. # @sys$manager:utc$configure_tdf SHOWo* @sys$manager:utc$configure_tdf SET 'value' (looks like you have)h  i   (3) Check your NTP parameters:  K The logical TCPIP$NTP_CONF points to SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]TCPIP$NTP.CONF 
 (DEFAULT).  K Make sure your peer references are correct.  Are you pointing to a non-timeo5 server?  Are the servers available?  (PING it).  etc.a  " Just some thoughts, not much help.     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorh Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk- 972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 14:51:38 -0700R, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)+ Subject: Re: NTP problems after time changee= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0304071351.4bbb1730@posting.google.com>l  ] "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<b6sf8b$svq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>...s; > "Bill McLaughlin" <mcbill20@hotmail.com> wrote in messageo9 > news:e9cbc4f2.0304071012.24437676@posting.google.com...i > > > >  8 Apr 12:04:11  time error -86399.400627 is way too large > H > Suspiciously close to 24 hours out. Shouldn't you be on the 7th still?  B Doh!!!  I noticed that about 30 seconds after I posted my originalC note via Google. It was 23:59 on Sunday night when I tried the lastuE attempt at running the time configuration utility and then restartingn NTP.  F Now that I did a "set time" back 24 hours, the NTP log file shows thatF everything is synchronized. Apparently, the info in c.o.v. and the faq8 was exactly correct, I just got unlucky with the timing.   Thanks.r Bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:15:38 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>+ Subject: Re: NTP problems after time changeh+ Message-ID: <b6sf8b$svq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>w  9 "Bill McLaughlin" <mcbill20@hotmail.com> wrote in messagee7 news:e9cbc4f2.0304071012.24437676@posting.google.com...c  < >  8 Apr 12:04:11  time error -86399.400627 is way too large  F Suspiciously close to 24 hours out. Shouldn't you be on the 7th still?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 14:56:20 -0700e1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) # Subject: NY LUG meeting SAN over IP = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0304071356.2fccbe4e@posting.google.com>d   -----Original Message----- From: Hummel, Lynne $ Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:26 PM To: Hummel, Lynne.3 Subject: FW: NYMLUG meeting: 4/14/2003: San over IPo        
 "San over IP"    Monday, April 14th, 2003.p
 4:30-7 PM  HP Offices  . 2 Penn Plaza 8th Floor ( 7th Ave and 32nd St)   8 4:30 - 5:00    Check in and old-style DECUS Networking. . 5:00 - 5:10    Welcome and announcements, HP. < 5:10 - 5:15    Gary McCready: LUG and Encompass Business and Announcements E 5:15 - 6:00    John P. Daigneault, Brocade: SAN Management Strategiesu andc Best Practices rC 6:00 - 6:45    Jim Gursha, High Performance System Solutions: Using  Wide3 Area Storage Area Networks for Business Continuity a% 6:45 - 7:00    Wrapup and door prizes ? 7:00 - 8:00    LUG Steering committee meeting (nearby location)   E To RSVP: send email to  nicolette.cicatelli (at) hp.com, Subject LUG    E You will be met by a HP employee at the security desk at the entrance:E to the building (now at the 7th Avenue side). Should you arrive late,-@ please call the HP reception desk at 212-856-2000 for an escort.A Please RSVP and plan to arrive before 5:15 pm as there is limited@ seating available.  $ HP will provide light refreshments.   F John P. Daigneault  is a Systems Engineer with Brocade Communications,B Inc. Prior to joining Brocade he worked at Giantloop Network as anD architect, design and implementation engineer. His specialty was the@ implementation of long distance SAN topologies using various WANC technologies. Prior to working with GiantLoop John was a Manager attE KPMG Consulting. During his tenure John managed a team focused on the2F implementation of LAN / WAN and server consolidation architectures for? their customers. He holds BCFP, CCNP, MCSE, CCA certifications.e  F Jim Gursha is President of High Performance System Solutions, Inc. HisF talk will discuss the design and implementation of a wide area StorageD Area Network that was recently designed and implemented for businessD continuity purposes. This SAN used dual XP 512's, Brocade 12000, andB 3800's with CNT extenders for the wide area storage component. TheE talk will include how SAN environment was designed and validated  forS a wide area implementation.t  > Jim has over 30 years of experience designing and implementingE storage, clusters, and servers for the enterprise environment. He hasdD been using SAN's and their predecessors since their inception and isC an expert in designing solutions for the heterogeneous environment,eA e.g. HP OpenVMS, Tru 64, Sun Solaris, Wintel platforms,etc. He isoD experienced with Brocade fabrics and HP, Hitachi, IBM and STorageTek SAN's and is familiar with EMC.f  E A LUG Steering committee will take place after the regular meeting is D over at a nearby restaurant. If you have an interest in planning lugC events, direction and polices, please feel free to attend. If can't!@ stay for the meeting on Monday, please send email to nymlug (at)? mccready.com and we will include you in future planning. We are D currently considering hosting seminars for Encompass in June, and we, are planning topics for future LUG meetings.  E For further information on the group you may contact Gary McCready ate NYMLUG# (at) McCready.com or 201-556-3359. M  E Apologies are in order if you have received multiple versions of this D message. Feel free to forward this message to others who may have anD interest in attending - you do not have to be an Encompass member to attend.     D If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please? join our mailing list at  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/1        E CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail, including its contents and attachments, ifo@ any, are confidential. If you are not the named recipient pleaseE notify the sender and immediately delete it. You may not disseminate,iF distribute, or forward this e-mail message or disclose its contents toE anybody else. Copyright and any other intellectual property rights inu2 its contents are the sole property of eSpeed, Inc.=      E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure oreB error-free. The sender therefore does not accept liability for anyD errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as aB result of e-mail transmission.  If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.F      Although we routinely screen for viruses, addressees should checkF this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. We make no representation> or warranty as to the absence of viruses in this e-mail or anyE attachments. Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and fortE the protection of our customers and business, we may monitor and readh' e-mails sent to and from our server(s).e  - For further important information, please see-* http://www.espeed.com/full-disclaimer.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:35:32 -0500E From: "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com>   Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?2 Message-ID: <VF-dnW226YHyQgyjXTWcpA@speakeasy.net>   Hello,  F I have the simh vax simulator and wanted to grab a copy of OpenVMS forL monkeying around with. It looks like http://www.montagar.com/ is unavailableK and recent posts to this newsgroup seem to suggest they don't have any CD's  left.o  L Is there somewhere I could grab ISO's from from some nice person with a fastF connection? I have a fast connection too so it wouldn't take long. I'mL mostly interested in running VMS and a release of Dungeon and Advent. I know; I can run these on a PC, but it's for nostalgia reasons....t  F Now...if I could only dig up an LA36 and kill a few trees for greenbar	 paper....    Thanks,f   David C.  J PS: My first computer experience was playing Advent on a PDP-11 in 1979. IH now publish Interactive Fiction programming books. Once a geek, always a geek.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:28:52 +0100e1 From: Mark Round <mNaOrk.rSoPuAnMd7@ntlworld.com>d$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?? Message-ID: <Uelka.1380$HZ2.1321@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>   . If you are in the UK, I could do you a copy...  J However, montagar.com was working a few days ago - it appears to be havingK intermittent problems, try again in a day or so. They do still have VAX CDs I left, which is what you'd need for SIMH (It's what I'm using here) - it'sf' just the Alpha CD's they've run out of.p   -Marke    F "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com> wrote:   > Hello, > H > I have the simh vax simulator and wanted to grab a copy of OpenVMS forB > monkeying around with. It looks like http://www.montagar.com/ isK > unavailable and recent posts to this newsgroup seem to suggest they don'ts > have any CD's left.0 > I > Is there somewhere I could grab ISO's from from some nice person with atI > fast connection? I have a fast connection too so it wouldn't take long.tK > I'm mostly interested in running VMS and a release of Dungeon and Advent. D > I know I can run these on a PC, but it's for nostalgia reasons.... > H > Now...if I could only dig up an LA36 and kill a few trees for greenbar > paper....n > 	 > Thanks,  > 
 > David C. > L > PS: My first computer experience was playing Advent on a PDP-11 in 1979. IJ > now publish Interactive Fiction programming books. Once a geek, always a > geek.a   --   :wql   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:40:00 -0500E From: "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com> $ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?2 Message-ID: <6-KdnSH33pUWcwyjXTWcqA@speakeasy.net>  H "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com> wrote in4 message news:VF-dnW226YHyQgyjXTWcpA@speakeasy.net... > Hello, >BH > I have the simh vax simulator and wanted to grab a copy of OpenVMS forB > monkeying around with. It looks like http://www.montagar.com/ is unavailable H > and recent posts to this newsgroup seem to suggest they don't have any CD's > left.y >u  G Thanks everyone. As seems to be the case, people respond quickly aroundi% here. I think I'm taken care of here.o  
 Thanks again,M   David Ce   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:11:46 +0100e9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>2$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist CD(s)?? Message-ID: <8c259edf4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>i  > In message <Uelka.1380$HZ2.1321@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net><           Mark Round <mNaOrk.rSoPuAnMd7@ntlworld.com> wrote:  0 > If you are in the UK, I could do you a copy... > L > However, montagar.com was working a few days ago - it appears to be havingM > intermittent problems, try again in a day or so. They do still have VAX CDs<K > left, which is what you'd need for SIMH (It's what I'm using here) - it'sa) > just the Alpha CD's they've run out of.  >  > -Marko >   F Signed up a few days ago, after a day when the site wasn't responding.K The licenses arrived by email while I was still signing up to PayPal to buyu; the media. The VAX CD arrived today, i.e. 4 days to the UK.0   Not bad service.   Alan   > H > "David A. Cornelson" <david dot cornelson at iflibrary dot com> wrote: > 
 > > Hello, > > J > > I have the simh vax simulator and wanted to grab a copy of OpenVMS forD > > monkeying around with. It looks like http://www.montagar.com/ isM > > unavailable and recent posts to this newsgroup seem to suggest they don'to > > have any CD's left.i > > K > > Is there somewhere I could grab ISO's from from some nice person with a.K > > fast connection? I have a fast connection too so it wouldn't take long.tM > > I'm mostly interested in running VMS and a release of Dungeon and Advent. F > > I know I can run these on a PC, but it's for nostalgia reasons.... > > J > > Now...if I could only dig up an LA36 and kill a few trees for greenbar
 > > paper....  > >  > > Thanks,n > >  > > David C. > > N > > PS: My first computer experience was playing Advent on a PDP-11 in 1979. IL > > now publish Interactive Fiction programming books. Once a geek, always a	 > > geek.  >    -- n
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:32:10 +0100s' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaio. Message-ID: <3E918BEA.1050505@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:05:29 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >  >>>lG >>>Um... they are apparently happy enough with it to standardize on it.hI >>>Or do you have some evidence or proof that that statement is not true?g >>>i >>>  >>7 >>No I am sure that they did get 28% better throughput,y5 >>the question which you havn't answered is what were  >>they measuring ? >>3 >>Was it 28% for the upgrade to G160 and 7.3 or 7.3 ; >>by itself and if the latter then what was the improvement.* >>when moving to GS160 from a Turbolaser ? >>; >>The article doesn't say, it has two events GS upgrade anda' >>OS upgrade and one perfomance number.o >>> >>If you cannot clarify this then you cannot use the reference >>to support your case.  >  > C > Well, the article attributes the 28% to the OpenVMS upgrade.  ThenG > hardware change isn't relevant because I'm not making claims that thel > hardware is x% faster. >h  @ No it doesn't how many times do you need to be told, the article< talks about a hardware upgrade and an OS upgrade but has oneB performance number 28%. Clarify it or stop using it as an example.  G > My claim, once again, is that we do have customers who are happy with F > their GS systems, and some even run database applications.  You haveH > consistenly argued that this can't be true, based on industry standardG > benchmarks.  And I keep saying that the benchmarks <> the real world, E > and this is one example of a customer who is happy with the result.D >   : But you keep failing to provide numbers that indicate what6 performance gains you customers have seen. Why is this so difficult ?    = > In that respect, yes I can use it as a reference because itsF > demonstrates a happy customer.  The performance numbers given aren't > relevant to my point.e >   6 But you cannot reference the customer and none of your6 customer testimonals for GS systems with the exception: of the Bank Austia one (which you cannot explain) actually< talk about customers experiences with GS boxes, they instead: talk about what the customers are hoping to get from their, systems which is a entirely different thing.   >  > 2 >>>>But Oracle applications performance wasn't one >>>>of them. >>>. >>>eF >>>And you know this how?  You talk as if you have real information on9 >>>this, but you offer nothing but your own conjecture.  $ >>>a >>H >>Well except that on the standard Oracle Applications capacity planningA >>throughput test the GS320 is easily outperformed by smaller and / >>much less expensive servers from IBM and Sun.e >>@ >>Now what value is there in being more costly and slower if you6 >>can explain that then fine but I suspect you can''t. >  > F > Once again, you draw a conclusion from "standard Oracle Applications? > capacity plannign throughput test", but ignore the real-worldpG > insistence of a happy customer.  Your documentation of standard testsjB > is fine as a source for some comparisons, but it does nothing toC > disprove that these people can't be happy with the performance of56 > their oracle applications in this specific instance. >    Who are they ?   > F >>>The question is NOT how it performs compared to other vendors.  TheC >>>question is "does it provide the service level that the businessrH >>>requires."  That's the question that business really cares about, andD >>>apparenlty it must provide the service level, or they wouldn't be >>>buying more of them.  >>>e >>C >>No thats just the point, many customers stick with one vendor who D >>gradually drops off the technology curve. Each new server produced? >>by the vendor is slightly better than the one before but whenn> >>compared with other systems on the market isn't competitive. >  > D > But they are HAPPY CUSTOMERS according to the article.  Unless youC > have some evidence that proves otherwise, why would you insist onn" > arguing against their judgement? >   < Sure, Sequent customers were happy, that is until they found< that they could have been doing more with less. Now that was7 forced on them by IBM's aquisition, very few checked upe
 till then.    G > Whatever.  You can't possibly have enough information to substantiaterG > this claim for this customer.  You'll have to forgive those of us who2A > are willing to accept that they are capable of making the rightrD > decisions for their business in spite of not consulting you first. >  >   3 Of course I have, your benchmarks prove this claim.s   Regardsh Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:50:14 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancynY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retais. Message-ID: <3E91AC46.4040305@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:02:39 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyc0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >>H >>>On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:59:00 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:a >>>1 >>>> >>>jE >>>But the point is still that there are testimonials to counter your A >>>argument that the GS160/320 is not scalable enough for runningnH >>>transaction/database systems.  Apparently in the real world there are% >>>ample examples of happy customers.8 >>>8 >>7 >>Really so have you actually read the testimonials ???  >  >  > Yes, and even presented two. >  > " >>[snip unrelated testimonials...] >  > > >>That leaves Bank Austria which isn't a good reference unless? >>you are hell bent in illustrating how poorly GS boxes perform $ >>when compared with the TurboLaser. >  > E > Why do you keep repeating this lie.  You are so blatant in ignoring'G > the facts in this that it amazes me that you can have any credibilityt > in anything. >   F > Show the wording in that article that states the GS160 only providesF > 28% improvement.  I have read very carefully through the article andE > there's just nothing in it to support your opinion.  The article is H > about upgrading to a pre-release of V7.3, which is not necessarily theE > version that came with the system (it's also supported on V7.2-1H1,sF > and V7.2-2).  So it's very possible it was delivered with an earlierF > release, and this win was focusing on the benefits of OpenVMS V7.3 -G > the GS160 is just an aside, but for my purposes of showing a happy GSa > customer, it's enough. >   > No you show the wording that explains what the 28% performance= improvement was based on or shut up. Repeating the claim thatt= the document says that the 28% is due to the 7.3 upgrade when = the article talks about two events, hw upgrade and sw upgrade > but one performance number is pointless. If you don't actually< know what the reference is about then calling me a liar only9 serves to make you look more confused and less competent.r  = While you are at it, what was the performance improvement foru9 the hardware alone ??? Surely if you can apparently be soe: sure what the perfromance bump for the 7.3 upgrade was you8 can also publish what the 8400->160 upgrade did for them if it isn't 28%.    H > One other thing you seem to miss in the GS vs Turbolaser discussion isE > the scalability of the GS.  Sure, it has a slower QBB-to-QBB memoryn@ > transfer rate, but the scalability is much better - especiallyG > compared to the Turbolaser.  The 8400's really didn't scale well when E > you got into the higher cpu counts.  The additional cpus would giveoH > you some added benefit, but the benefit decreases significantly, whileD > the GS decreases less significantly.  So while there is additionalF > latency, it can still provide greater growth potential due to better > scalability of the CPU.t >   9 Ahh now you have got quite close to the real issue. Shallv I help you out.   ( Firstly we need to clarify a few points.  6 1. QBB -> QBB memory bandwidth is higher than the 84005     interconnect bandwidth. Minimum QBB -> QBB memory ;     latency is higher than the 8400 minimum memory latency.a  7 2. QBB onboard memory bandwidth is also higher than the 5     total interconnect bandwidth on 8400. However QBBk5     minimum onboard memory latency is longer than thec      8400 minimum memory latency.   Now a bit of background.  = Your own performance white papers indicate that for somethingb7 like a DBMS over 50% of the wall clock time is actually 3 spent with the CPU stalled waiting for main memory.j  B http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJO01/DTJO01HM.HTM  A So lets look at what happened when you "upgraded" to a GS160/320.F  ) 1.	The clock speed went from 700->731 Mhzi( 2.	The cache size halved from 8 to 4 MB.* 3.	The minimum latency of main memory went 	up from 257ns to 360ns.3 4.	NUMA intoduced a second minimum latency of 960nss/ 	which on a 4 QBB system with no NUMA OS tuningp3 	should result in 75% of all memory accesses taking, 	a minimum of 960ns.   So what does this mean.y  A If you spent 50% of the time stalled and 50% doing useful work as < your white papers suggest then had the memory subsystem been; the same speed the wall clock time should have gone down byo< 2%. In fact the reduction in cache size ment that your cache> miss rate went up so your elapsed time also went up this shows8 up in the CPU95 results which are you best case scenario$ apart from something like dryystone.  > Sadly your minimum memory latency wasn't the same it was worse< either a little bit or 4x worse. And the more QBB's you have* the higher the ratio of 4x worse accesses.  D Crucially your engineers apparently seem to have spent a big part of7 their time comparing a bogus set of E10K memory latencyn? numbers with the GS320 projected numbers rather than looking at = how the GS compared with the 8400. The real E10K numbers were5: 40% lower than the numbers used in the white paper and the7 ratio of local->remote NUMA memory access was also very: optimistic.w  F So how did this pan out for customers. Well some of them reported thatE with small number of CPU's the GS160/320 were quite a lot slower than,D their previous systems, sometimes slower than the 8400 6/575 this is consistent.e  F Some also reported that if you put enough cpus in the system you couldA get more thoughput than the 8400, this is also consistent becausetA as you point out the bandwidth of the 8400 and increasing latencyiE under load ment that at some point the GS160/320 performance overtookvE the 8400. It is also supported by your own TPC-C results a GS140 with,A 8 x 700 Mhz does 42K TPM and a GS160 with 16 x 731 Mhz CPU's does-B 55K TPM. Incedentally this is about 25% which is very close to the1 results posted for Kingston and for Bank Austria.N  @ Your comments about 8400 scalability will also come as a suprise= to people who were on the receiving end of the 8400 marketingn	 campaign.r   Regards  Andrew Harrisony   >  > A >>And thats your list of GS customer references, sorry this is soo= >>bad that its embarassing and not one of them actually referg= >>to the "performance" advantage that the GS boxes gave them.  >> >  > H > Many of those references, though not current, are still valid examplesF > of satisfied customers.  Just because you like to find fault doesn't@ > invalidate them as examples where the GS systems provided good > solutions. > : > You have a vested interest in twisting things around andA > characterizing them in a bad light.  That's your spin, but thatiC > doesn't reflect the reality that the solutions work well for manyHG > customers.  No, not all customers, but that's never been my argument." >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:18:17 -0300l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: OT: Apologies/ Message-ID: <3E91C0E5.570ABAE5@vl.videotron.ca>    "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:oM > A threat in a public forum to "report" somebody, in an allegedly apologetice3 > post... very good.  JF, you can count on my vote!R  M 1- why did you cross post to some other newsgroup that is not related to this8 one ?a  K 2-The person in question had been warned 3 times(separate occasions) NOT tosJ reply to those posts because his replies cause more harm than his supposed  support of me. Yet he continues.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:21:58 -0300c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: OT: Bill Gates murdered in Los Angeles / Message-ID: <3E921624.7CB4D7CC@vl.videotron.ca>a  5 http://www.cgrom.com/news/law/gatesmurder/index.shtmlo     (almost believable !)m  L Serously though, what would happen to Microsoft should he really be killed ?J Would people continue to trust MS will continue to rule the world or would- they feel that MS's days would be numbered ? e  K Is there an heir apparent to Gates, has Microsoft weined itself from Gates' J stewardship and can function/lead without him ? or Is Microsoft still very much a Gates pet project ?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 11:03:47 -0700s1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)h2 Subject: Re: Remote File Transfer (RFT) - TERADYNE= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304071003.552b8980@posting.google.com>   R brandon@dalsemi.com wrote in message news:<03040406461976@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>...( > Where would I find a VAX disassembler?  D Look for DISM32.  One place to find it is Hunter Goatley's FILESERV:; http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?DISM32a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:18:22 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>" Subject: Re: Resetting error count5 Message-ID: <b6siup$8id8h$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>i   Guy   5 will it become available in a VAX/VMS release at all?i" If not, could you explain why not?   Hans1 "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com> schreef in berichth  news:3E9183B3.DBD1E84B@hp.com... >HG > With the next version of VMS (V7.3-2) we have added the capability ofi > resettingb) > device error count and operation count.i >y> > $SET DEVICE/RESET=ERROR $1$DKA400 will reset the error countF > $SET DEVICE/RESET=OPCNT will reset the operation count of the device > (keywords can be combined) >eJ > An entry will be added to the error log indicating error count reset has< > been performed with value of the counter before resetting.J > $SHOW DEVICE/FULL will also indicate the time the device was last reset. >tJ > This feature has been requested many time, I thought you'll like to know > about it.a0 > And no it will not be backported to VAX 5.5-2. >i > Guy Pelegp > OpenVMS Engineeringc >R   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:57:09 GMT8" From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> Subject: Resetting error count& Message-ID: <3E9183B3.DBD1E84B@hp.com>  E With the next version of VMS (V7.3-2) we have added the capability ofn	 resettingd' device error count and operation count.l  < $SET DEVICE/RESET=ERROR $1$DKA400 will reset the error countD $SET DEVICE/RESET=OPCNT will reset the operation count of the device (keywords can be combined)  H An entry will be added to the error log indicating error count reset has: been performed with value of the counter before resetting.H $SHOW DEVICE/FULL will also indicate the time the device was last reset.  H This feature has been requested many time, I thought you'll like to know	 about it. . And no it will not be backported to VAX 5.5-2.  	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS Engineering    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:33:36 -030000 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: Resetting error count/ Message-ID: <3E91B66F.18DA4CA3@vl.videotron.ca>s   Guy Peleg wrote:J > This feature has been requested many time, I thought you'll like to know > about it. 0 > And no it will not be backported to VAX 5.5-2.  N This is a neat feature. I guess when you have hosts that stay up for years, it does become handy.  N However, if you have some system monitoring software that sends out pages whenG a device error count changes, won't the use of that command cause a fewdM problems to those layered products ? ( I realise that this command is entered , voluntarily and not executed automatically).  K Would there be a system service equivalent to reset it so that such layered'> products could reset the count to zero after an event has been acknowledged/fixed ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:16:33 -0500N1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g" Subject: Re: Resetting error count' Message-ID: <3E9222F1.810AB85D@fsi.net>r   Michael Unger wrote: > ' > "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com> wrote:t > I > > With the next version of VMS (V7.3-2) we have added the capability ofl
 > > resettingI+ > > device error count and operation count.t > >t@ > > $SET DEVICE/RESET=ERROR $1$DKA400 will reset the error countH > > $SET DEVICE/RESET=OPCNT will reset the operation count of the device > > (keywords can be combined) > 9 > Will wildcards and lists of devices be supported? I.e.,a# > $ SET DEVICE /RESET=ERROR DK*,MK*8  6 If not, consider reading up on the F$DEVICE() lexical.   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 21:15:09 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.r5 Message-ID: <b6sio5$8l2j5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>-  . <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in bericht* news:00A1E098.E2345E13@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > In article <b6sdep$9ds$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, watson_g@Encompasserve.org (George Watson) writes:m; > >In article <00A1E08D.2AC0A799@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-e @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:a > >>C > >>I have a process called NMBD and two services have been definede > >>called SMBD and SWAT.b > >>  1 [lots of interesting SMB information deleted yuk]g   > Password: A >           Domain=[WORKGROUP] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 2.2.7a]r >s* >         Sharename      Type      Comment* >         ---------      ----      -------; >         Squyrm         Disk      Squyrm's login directoryi; >         Martha         Disk      Martha's login directory = >         IPC$           IPC       IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)n= >         ADMIN$         Disk      IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)N >b& >         Server               Comment& >         ---------            -------+ >         A533U2               Samba 2.2.7ar >         PIECE_OF_CRAPt > % >         Workgroup            Master1& >         ---------            -------$ >         WORKGROUP            BRAVE >0 >o> > I still don't underf*ingstand how to use this in the PeeCee. > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >u6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >S2 You've probably tried this on the PC in a DOS box:   c:> net use k: \\a533u2\Martha c:> net useO   If so, what does DOS respond?S  I On my WXP Home Ed (and you thought W98 was a piece of crap ?) that gives: & C:\Documents and Settings\Hans>net use+ Nieuwe verbindingen worden niet opgeslagen.2    8 Status       Lokaal    Extern                    Netwerk  L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- J OK           K:        \\vanadium\c$             Microsoft Windows-netwerk De opdracht is voltooid.     C:\Documents and Settings\Hans>p   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:28:19 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.i0 Message-ID: <00A1E0A2.C8632F9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <b6sio5$8l2j5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:
 >{...snip...}h >c:> net use k: \\a533u2\Marthar >c:> net use >  >If so, what does DOS respond? >t     C:\> net use k: \\a533u2\squyrm   9 The password or user name is invalid for \\a533u2\squyrm.v& Type the password for \\a533u2\squyrm: System error 1326 has occurred.t2 Logon failure: unknown user name or bass password.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMP            N5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" r   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:51:41 +0000 (UTC)0 From: watson_g@Encompasserve.org (George Watson)1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.a/ Message-ID: <b6soct$c15$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>.  S In article <00A1E098.E2345E13@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes::@ >          Domain=[WORKGROUP] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 2.2.7a] >R) >        Sharename      Type      Comment-) >        ---------      ----      -------o: >        Squyrm         Disk      Squyrm's login directory: >        Martha         Disk      Martha's login directory< >        IPC$           IPC       IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)< >        ADMIN$         Disk      IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a) >1% >        Server               Commenty% >        ---------            ------- * >        A533U2               Samba 2.2.7a >        PIECE_OF_CRAP >h$ >        Workgroup            Master% >        ---------            ------- # >        WORKGROUP            BRAVEu >t Brian,  K   At this point, if you log in to the workgroup on PIECE_OF_CRAP as Squyrm IL (use the same password as VMS), open Windows Explorer (not IE, the one that M replaces FileManager), select Tools->Map Network Drive from the menu bar, andjM map a drive letter to "\\A533U2\Squyrm" (assuming PofC and Samba agree about - password encryption).r  M   Disclaimer:  I mostly use printer and not disk services.  Also, once I get PH things working once, I immediately stop tinkering and try to forget the K unpleasant details.  As long as it isn't too complicated, it usually keeps .
 working...   --
 George Watsone   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 15:28:27 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG- Subject: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.-0 Message-ID: <00A1E081.45B20D32@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K Is there anybody out there running SAMBA on VMS that can help me figure oute this maddening PC crap?g   Thanks.9 --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:44:57 +0000 (UTC)0 From: watson_g@Encompasserve.org (George Watson)1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work. / Message-ID: <b6sdep$9ds$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>w  S In article <00A1E08D.2AC0A799@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:  > @ >I have a process called NMBD and two services have been defined >called SMBD and SWAT. >aB >When I click on the "neighborhood" I get a "Globe" titled "EntireB >Network".  If I click on the "Globe" I get "pipes" with the title@ >"Micr$oft Windows Netowrk".  If I click on the "pipes", I get 3B >PeeCees titles "Workgroup".  If I click on the 3 PeeCees, I get a? >"Workgroup is not accessible/The network name cannot be found". >window. >LA >The SAMBA stull would appear to be functional.  I get OPCOM mes-e >sages saying:G >INTERnet ACP SMBD Accept Request from Host: 192.168.100.250 Port: 1108e >l: >I never see anything connected to the NMBS or SWAT ports. >R   Brian,  D   The Network Neighborhood window seems to be the least likely thingI to work in a Samba workgroup.  At home, I have my Alpha networked with mygN wife's W98 PC.  If the PC starts up BEFORE Samba, it becomes the browse masterI and Net.Nbhd works.  If it comes up AFTER Samba (the usual case, since itsO has to be rebooted far more often, of course) Net.Nbhd does not work.  However,N/ all the services are there and can be accessed.o  J   I would first use SMBCLIENT from VMS to try browsing for services on the various systems:  &   $ smbclient :== $SAMBA_EXE:smbclient   $ smbclient "-L" hostnameh  L Start with the VMS system itself, to see if it is serving out what you want K it to serve, and to double check the workgroup name.  If you have the home hO directory service enabled, it will ask for your password.  It may ask in other y cases as well.   --: George Watson            watson_g.encompasserve.org.nospam   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:17:28 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work. 0 Message-ID: <00A1E098.E2345E13@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <b6sdep$9ds$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, watson_g@Encompasserve.org (George Watson) writes:T >In article <00A1E08D.2AC0A799@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>A >>I have a process called NMBD and two services have been definedt >>called SMBD and SWAT.6 >>C >>When I click on the "neighborhood" I get a "Globe" titled "EntirebC >>Network".  If I click on the "Globe" I get "pipes" with the titleEA >>"Micr$oft Windows Netowrk".  If I click on the "pipes", I get 3mC >>PeeCees titles "Workgroup".  If I click on the 3 PeeCees, I get al@ >>"Workgroup is not accessible/The network name cannot be found"	 >>window.' >>B >>The SAMBA stull would appear to be functional.  I get OPCOM mes- >>sages saying: H >>INTERnet ACP SMBD Accept Request from Host: 192.168.100.250 Port: 1108 >>; >>I never see anything connected to the NMBS or SWAT ports.  >> >L >Brian,g > E >  The Network Neighborhood window seems to be the least likely thingeJ >to work in a Samba workgroup.  At home, I have my Alpha networked with myO >wife's W98 PC.  If the PC starts up BEFORE Samba, it becomes the browse mastermJ >and Net.Nbhd works.  If it comes up AFTER Samba (the usual case, since itP >has to be rebooted far more often, of course) Net.Nbhd does not work.  However,0 >all the services are there and can be accessed. >tK >  I would first use SMBCLIENT from VMS to try browsing for services on thei >various systems:t >n' >  $ smbclient :== $SAMBA_EXE:smbclient. >  $ smbclient "-L" hostname >nM >Start with the VMS system itself, to see if it is serving out what you want iL >it to serve, and to double check the workgroup name.  If you have the home P >directory service enabled, it will ask for your password.  It may ask in other  >cases as well.r   OK.S  H $ smbclient "-L" a533u2 "-U" squyrm  (I had to add the user to make this7                                       report anything.)y  ) WARNING: The "status"option is deprecated 0 Unknown parameter encountered: "read prediction", Ignoring unknown parameter "read prediction"J added interface ip=192.168.100.2 bcast=192.168.100.255 nmask=255.255.255.0H added interface ip=192.168.10.2 bcast=192.168.10.255 nmask=255.255.255.0F added interface ip=192.168.2.2 bcast=192.168.2.255 nmask=255.255.255.0F added interface ip=192.168.1.2 bcast=192.168.1.255 nmask=255.255.255.0	 Password: ?           Domain=[WORKGROUP] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 2.2.7a]n  (         Sharename      Type      Comment(         ---------      ----      -------9         Squyrm         Disk      Squyrm's login directory.9         Martha         Disk      Martha's login directory2;         IPC$           IPC       IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)n;         ADMIN$         Disk      IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)?  $         Server               Comment$         ---------            -------)         A533U2               Samba 2.2.7a          PIECE_OF_CRAPn  #         Workgroup            Master.$         ---------            -------"         WORKGROUP            BRAVE    < I still don't underf*ingstand how to use this in the PeeCee. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" g   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:49:12 GMT," From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work. 0 Message-ID: <00A1E0C7.29F65E0D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <b6soct$c15$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, watson_g@Encompasserve.org (George Watson) writes:T >In article <00A1E098.E2345E13@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:A >>          Domain=[WORKGROUP] OS=[OpenVMS] Server=[Samba 2.2.7a]k >>* >>        Sharename      Type      Comment* >>        ---------      ----      -------; >>        Squyrm         Disk      Squyrm's login directoryu; >>        Martha         Disk      Martha's login directory.= >>        IPC$           IPC       IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)m= >>        ADMIN$         Disk      IPC Service (Samba 2.2.7a)A >>& >>        Server               Comment& >>        ---------            -------+ >>        A533U2               Samba 2.2.7aM >>        PIECE_OF_CRAPl >>% >>        Workgroup            Masterc& >>        ---------            -------$ >>        WORKGROUP            BRAVE >> >Brian,e >SL >  At this point, if you log in to the workgroup on PIECE_OF_CRAP as Squyrm M >(use the same password as VMS), open Windows Explorer (not IE, the one that eN >replaces FileManager), select Tools->Map Network Drive from the menu bar, andN >map a drive letter to "\\A533U2\Squyrm" (assuming PofC and Samba agree about  >password encryption).   THANK YOU *10E+06!    > Given a million f*ing years, I wouldn't have figured that out.  & This is what they tout as *intuitive*!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:44:40 GMTa- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>l1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.-= Message-ID: <cQpka.21493$D31.1246817@news1.news.adelphia.net>v   George Watson wrote:   > Brian, > F >   The Network Neighborhood window seems to be the least likely thingK > to work in a Samba workgroup.  At home, I have my Alpha networked with mynP > wife's W98 PC.  If the PC starts up BEFORE Samba, it becomes the browse masterK > and Net.Nbhd works.  If it comes up AFTER Samba (the usual case, since itcQ > has to be rebooted far more often, of course) Net.Nbhd does not work.  However, 1 > all the services are there and can be accessed.o  F SAMBA by default has it's browser level set so that it should win the H election to become the browser.  Unfortunately it does not seem to work  that way in the real world.   F You must only have one browse master for a workgroup or a domain on a F network.  So you should either modify the smb.conf to keep SAMBA from H becoming the browse master or disable the browser on the PC if there is 	 a client.A  I A Microsoft Windows NT domain controller is apparently hardwired to know 4D that it can not lose a browser election, even though it has a lower  level than SAMBA has set.a  C This means that a browser election war will ensue, and if you have  B enough clients and servers on the network, you will see noticable 3 slowdowns in network traffic due to the congestion.A  L >   I would first use SMBCLIENT from VMS to try browsing for services on the > various systems: > ( >   $ smbclient :== $SAMBA_EXE:smbclient >   $ smbclient "-L" hostnamef > N > Start with the VMS system itself, to see if it is serving out what you want M > it to serve, and to double check the workgroup name.  If you have the home  Q > directory service enabled, it will ask for your password.  It may ask in other   > cases as well.  D See the file diagnosis.txt that should be in the Samba distribution.  C The nmblookup program should be used to diagnose browsing problems.d  I I have posted a SAMBA-VMS FAQ both on comp.os.vms and in the SAMBA topic pF in the VMS conference on Encompasserve.  It does not cover the latest 5 version, but many of the topics are still applicable.r  F If you know that your SAMBA server is always going to be running, you G should configure the Microsoft Windows clients to use it as their WINS g server.a   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 02:02:39 GMTc- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>o1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work. = Message-ID: <35qka.21503$D31.1251504@news1.news.adelphia.net>p   VAXman- wrote: >> >>Brian, >>L >> At this point, if you log in to the workgroup on PIECE_OF_CRAP as Squyrm N >>(use the same password as VMS), open Windows Explorer (not IE, the one that O >>replaces FileManager), select Tools->Map Network Drive from the menu bar, and3O >>map a drive letter to "\\A533U2\Squyrm" (assuming PofC and Samba agree about o >>password encryption).' >  >  > THANK YOU *10E+06!   > @ > Given a million f*ing years, I wouldn't have figured that out. > ( > This is what they tout as *intuitive*!  B SAMBA 2.0.6 and 2.2.x for OpenVMS will allow you to use encrypted D passwords.  You must use the SMBPASSWD program to set the encrypted E versions of the passwords for use by Windows clients to authenticate.p  H The other thing that can cause a problem similar to this is if their is F a problem with the account that SAMBA is configured to use as a GUEST  account.  G The GUEST account is not really a GUEST account for SAMBA.  It is used dC for communicating the share list to clients before the clients are m+ logged in, and for other network functions.r  E This GUEST account must not only exist, it must have write access to SG it's home directory, and that directory must exist.  It also must have e! write access to SAMBA_ROOT:[VAR].o  H The name of the GUEST account by default is coded in the SAMBA program, * but can be overriden in the SMB.CONF file.  I Prior to SAMBA 2.0.6, a UCX$ account that may or may not be present on a .I system was coded in.  Since the older Microsoft clients did not need the aE guest account to browse the shares to log in, it still worked if the  L account was not configured.  Windows NT and later require the guest account.  L In SAMBA 2.0.6, I Used SAMBA__GUEST (two underscores) for the guest account.  F I do not know what the default name for the GUEST account is in SAMBA  2.2.x for OpenVMS.  G It could possibly help if a user of SAMBA 2.2.X could get the previous rA SAMBA-VMS FAQ from either a http://www.google.com lookup or from  I Encompasserve and update it, since there seems to be renewed interest in h SAMBA.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion OnlyW   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2003 00:09 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)r1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.e, Message-ID: <8APR200300095718@gerg.tamu.edu>  $ VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes...[ }In article <b6sio5$8l2j5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:h }>{...snip...}  }>c:> net use k: \\a533u2\Martha
 }>c:> net uses }> }>If so, what does DOS respond?o }> }  }   }C:\> net use k: \\a533u2\squyrm } : }The password or user name is invalid for \\a533u2\squyrm.' }Type the password for \\a533u2\squyrm:n  }System error 1326 has occurred.3 }Logon failure: unknown user name or bass password.a }  }--tP }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  H When using windoex 9x, it will (as far as I have ever been able to tell)H only log into the server using the username that you have used to log in on the windows system.  H So if you use account name X on the windows end, it will only connect to account X on the Samba server.  J Once you get to Windows NT, 2000, or XP you can use different usernames on
 the two ends.a  F You can also get this type of error message if you are using encryptedK passwords on the PC end but not on the SAMBA end. Using encrypted passwordseM on Samba requires you to use a program to set them up (SMBPASSWD or somethingpJ like that) - it can't authorize from the SYSUAF  since (perversely enough)E it needs to have the password in an unencrypted form in order for the H encrypted password negotiation to work. The alternative is to set the PCI to not use encrypted passwords (or, in the newer versions, at least allowiJ unencrypted to work) - how you do this depends on which version of windowsE you are using (the last time I checked, there was a file in the SambaoG distribution in the documentation directory that had the registry entryiG needed to do this for NT; XP is a whole different kettle of fish and itsF requires you to change something like 3 settings in the system's local security policy).d   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Apr 2003 00:29 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins).1 Subject: Re: SAMBA on VMS... how to make it work.r, Message-ID: <8APR200300294806@gerg.tamu.edu>  $ VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes...M }>  At this point, if you log in to the workgroup on PIECE_OF_CRAP as Squyrm nN }>(use the same password as VMS), open Windows Explorer (not IE, the one that O }>replaces FileManager), select Tools->Map Network Drive from the menu bar, and O }>map a drive letter to "\\A533U2\Squyrm" (assuming PofC and Samba agree about f }>password encryption).o }  }THANK YOU *10E+06!  l } ? }Given a million f*ing years, I wouldn't have figured that out.t } ' }This is what they tout as *intuitive*!  }  }--rP }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  J Actually, it is fairly intuitive if you only use Windows systems for this," and are used to working with them.  I It's Samba that is more problematic, although it is *caused* by the wholeeE SMB thing being one huge stinking mess. Not only that, it is one huge F stinking mess that *changes* every time Microsoft comes out with a newG version of Windows. The SMB "design" (to use the term very loosely) is, ! to put it midly, a piece of junk.0  E You don't actually HAVE to map a drive, you can click through via theuE network neighborhood. This is also true when using Samba, but only ifaH you are lucky. (And it does appear to be a matter of luck - when runningD an older version of Samba a couple of years ago, it suddenly stoppedA appearing in the Network Neighborhood. Nothing had changed at thesG VMS end, and nothing unusual had happened on the Windows end (or ends - C it dissappeared from all of the roughly 60 PCs) either. I never didmF figure out what had happened or manage to fix it - it came back when IH upgraded to a newer version of Samba a few months later. Until then, youH just had to know the magic paths since you could enter them into the MapF Network Drive dialog and it would map them just fine, even though they  didn't appear in the N.N. list.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 12:00:14 -0700t& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)5 Subject: Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client updatea= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0304071100.73815d31@posting.google.com>a  A The following site (currently being slashdotted) has info on infon@ leakage and buffer overflow problems in numerous versions of theE Seti@home client.  The seti@home site has new (V3.08) clients to workv/ around this; OpenVMS is among the new versions.   D I don't run this on VMS any more, but if any of you do, please check it out.    Rich Jordans CCSg   http://spoor12.edup.tudelft.nl/g  , http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/download.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:18:49 GMTt4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)9 Subject: Re: Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client updates/ Message-ID: <J2lka.358418$3D1.193642@sccrnsc01>   f In article <cc5619f2.0304071100.73815d31@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:B >The following site (currently being slashdotted) has info on infoA >leakage and buffer overflow problems in numerous versions of theaF >Seti@home client.  The seti@home site has new (V3.08) clients to work0 >around this; OpenVMS is among the new versions. >hE >I don't run this on VMS any more, but if any of you do, please checkt >it out. >  >Rich Jordan >CCS >v  >http://spoor12.edup.tudelft.nl/ >l- >http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/download.htmlo  O The CLI versions (including VMS) are still listed at V3.03 - it is unclear fromoJ the web site wording if V3.08 is for Windows/MAC "screen savers" only, but  that's what it looks like to me.  A _________________________________________________________________e0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:56:53 -0500r( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>9 Subject: Re: Seti@home client exploit.  VMS client updatep2 Message-ID: <7rGcncooarS61A-jXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>   Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:wh > In article <cc5619f2.0304071100.73815d31@posting.google.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes: > C >>The following site (currently being slashdotted) has info on infotB >>leakage and buffer overflow problems in numerous versions of theG >>Seti@home client.  The seti@home site has new (V3.08) clients to work 1 >>around this; OpenVMS is among the new versions.g >>F >>I don't run this on VMS any more, but if any of you do, please check	 >>it out.v >>
 >>Rich Jordanc >>CCSm >>! >>http://spoor12.edup.tudelft.nl/l >>. >>http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/download.html >  > Q > The CLI versions (including VMS) are still listed at V3.03 - it is unclear frompL > the web site wording if V3.08 is for Windows/MAC "screen savers" only, but" > that's what it looks like to me. > C > _________________________________________________________________N2 > Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"1 > bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"o  D I believe you are correct.  I had not investigated past the initial H download page.  Perhaps they 'intend' to provide updates and jumped the  gun on the intro page.   Rich Jordanr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:43:40 +0100 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyc8 Subject: Re: So much for Opteron 32bit compatibility ..., Message-ID: <3E91646C.50502@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > The *real* story here is potential for the impending death of Sparc.  If SunD > embraces Opteron, why would they continue to throw money at Sparc? >   ' How did you manage to work this out ???'  = Sun currently supports x86 Solaris and has done with a hickupl for some time.  = Sun currently ships Intel based servers with Linux or Solarisg> on them and has done for some time. We also currently ship AMD' PCI co-processor cards running Windows.o  < Does this mean that Sun is dumping SPARC no. In fact we have; just announced a whole slew of new SPARC projects includingi9 the CMT SPARC which should get your processor engineeringi3 teams looking worried if they have any clue at all.   ; (Incedentally if you need an explanation of why GS160/320's09 don't perform then read the CMT white papaers it will all 9 become apparent, though it was always obvious if you knew  what you were talking about.)u  7 We would look pretty silly if we announced a whole loadt4 of new SPARC products and a strengthened roadmap for% SPARC and then dumped it for Opteron.a  6 Mind you from your persepective that kind of behaviour@ would only be business as usual so I suppose you can be forgiven9 for thinking that other major computer manufacturers musts all behave in the same way.x       Regardsd Andrew Harrisonc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 02:43:14 GMTr# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>o' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSl= Message-ID: <6B5ka.128668$M7.2808740@twister.tampabay.rr.com>f  J Sorry, I still don't see why you think you need an  HSG.  According to theK docs, you need a KGPSA, a fibre-to-scsi bridge (either and MDR or a NSR), as4 fibre channel switch and a tape libray (with tapes).    < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E90D796.683F0B09@fsi.net...h > "John N." wrote: > >lJ > > I am curious as to why you think you need an HSG?  We were thinking of doinge8 > > the same thing you are, and now you have me worried? >iI > See my follow-up post, or read up on the Guide to Cluster Configuration 0 > for V7.3-1, Chapter 7, especially section 7.5. >a > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >r* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:05:25 -050081 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSs' Message-ID: <3E922055.2CA16A0F@fsi.net>a   "John N." wrote: > ; > Sorry, I still don't see why you think you need an  HSG.    D Given past experience with HSC, HSD, HSJ and HSZ, it seems a logical guess.   > According to theK > docs, you need a KGPSA, a fibre-to-scsi bridge (either and MDR or a NSR),e  C Our environment contains none of those, only the STK gear and HP FCeH HBAs. If that fails to do the job, then the only logical choice would beE an HSG, MDR or NSR, preferably and HSG so I (and my automation) don'taD have learn a "foreign dialect" (assuming HSG's include tape support, early HSZ's didn't).   > a:6 > fibre channel switch and a tape libray (with tapes).  
 Got those.  = Again, see the SYSMAN info. in the documentation cited. WhileeH third-party gear is seldom mentioned in the doc.'s, it provides a formatF within which to build expectations of how third-party gear should act.C If it doesn't, then it's up to the third parties to reconcile theira. claims with the reality of the implementation.   -- o David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 19:53:34 -0500:+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)c Subject: Re: tcpip Programming3 Message-ID: <EsZWdTBzRzs5@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  b In article <1ca82fc6.0304032209.b6434e2@posting.google.com>, dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) writes:g > nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message news:<2178d61f.0304031627.49ee0915@posting.google.com>...  >> Hello folks,t >> aM >> I don't know if it is the right newsgroup, so i explain what i want to do. L >> I would like to write a programm to download http files from www sites in5 >> the backgroud, without surfing over a web Browser.e: >> as a start point i have the tcpip Programming examples. >> i= >> Have someone already done this kind of tcpip Programming ?l" >> I appreciate any help or hints. >>   >> Thanks in advance.p2 > curl has a command-line interface and a vms port1 > see http://curl.haxx.se/latest.cgi?curl=vms-zip( > Phil  ? There is also a cURL library that you can use to get and parse t< pages in a program.  I use it to login to various sites, and9 emulate what the typical user would do.  The zip with thel> binaries at the URL above is not the latest version, but it is@ pretty close, and it is reasonably easy to compile if you have a C compiler.s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 02:29:06 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process6 Message-ID: <1030407022144.15238B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On 6 Apr 2003, Matthew X. Economou wrote:k   > Hello all, > F > Thanks for all of your help and for the interesting discussion about/ > the VMS startup process.  I've learned a lot.  > H > I thought I'd chime back in and let you all know how I was faring withE > my questions three.  For the most part, everything is working fine,eF > now that I have a better clue how things work in OpenVMS.  I decidedH > that I'd probably hosed some Really Important Files, so I re-installed= > and re-configured everything today (and took better notes).h > L > >>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew X Economou <xenophon+usenet@irtnog.org> writes: > ; >     Matthew> 1. How do I configure LAT to run at startup?c > E > I don't know what I did to SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM to botch this.  Adding D > the command "@SYS$STARTUP:LAT$STARTUP.COM" to this file causes theA > LTDRIVER to be loaded on boot now.  I no longer have to run thek > command interactively.  9 I don't know if you caught this, but the file you add to - systartup_vms.com F to start LAT is lat$startup.com, but the file you edit to customize it is lat$SYstartup.com ...	 -------^^t  B I think if you don't customize, you get inbound service only, with2 the service name the same as the DECnet node name.   [...]l  B >     Matthew> 3. I'm trying to get a VXT-2000+ to MOP-boot off myD >     Matthew> Alpha.  Unfortunately, even though I'm doing "MCR NCPD >     Matthew> DEFINE NODE <nodename> ADDRESS <decnet-addr> HARDWARE0 >     Matthew> ADDRESS <ethernet-addr> LOAD FILEC >     Matthew> SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VXT$LIBRARY]<vxt-image-filename>" and B >     Matthew> updating NCP's persistent database, the changes are% >     Matthew> erased when I restart.  > H > I still can't figure this one out.  Several people suggested different@ > things based on what version of DECNET I'm running, so just toG > clarify, this is OpenVMS 7.2 on a DEC AlphaStation 200 (an itty bitty-F > box).  I'm running DECNET Phase V.  This time around, I made sure toD > configure DECNET using the NET$CONFIGURE.COM script.  However, theD > "NCP DEFINE NODE" command still does not change the persistent NCPG > config database, and menu option 8 in NET$CONFIGURE.COM (to configureSG > the MOP client database) doesn't seem to work either---I input all ofrE > the requested configuration information, but when I try to boot theA/ > VXT, it gets no response from the MOP server.E > F > I verified that MOP service was enabled for that Ethernet circuit by  > running the following command: > ( >     $ MCR NCP SHOW CHAR KNOWN CIRCUITS >  > G >     Known Circuit Volatile Characteristics as of  6-APR-2003 01:01:40  >  >     Circuit = EWA-0D > # >     State                    = one( >     Service                  = enabled >  >  >     $  > E > So I'm stumped.  I'm not certain if I should try to hack on the NCL7D > scripts that NET$CONFIGURE is supposed to generate, or if I shouldC > just add the command "MCR NCP SET NODE ..." to SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.$  = Did you remove the comment character (exclamation point) frome) sys$manager:net$logicals.com in the line:a  5  $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/NOLOG  NET$STARTUP_MOP         TRUE.  C ??  (I'm not sure; maybe NET$CONFIGURE does this automatically now.lD It didn't used to do it, and it took a while to find it the 1st time# I enabled MOP on a Phase 5 system.)l  I If you don't have a NET$LOGICALS.COM, copy it from NET$LOGICALS.TEMPLATE.>   > Thanks for all of your help,	 > Matthewt > E > P.S. My favorite color is blue!  Oops!  No, YELLOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!r  B The number of the counting shall be 3 and 3 shall be the number ofD the counting.  (Phase) 5 is right out.  (For all the Ph 5 haters out
 there. :-)   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 08:44:05 +0200n' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)S8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process+ Message-ID: <MjZVb5SurzGS@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>-  Y In article <1030407022144.15238B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:k > ; > I don't know if you caught this, but the file you add to   > systartup_vms.com H > to start LAT is lat$startup.com, but the file you edit to customize it > is lat$SYstartup.com ... > -------^^   @ And this is exactly correct: lat$startup is the system-provided 0 startup procedure, and should not be customized.D lat$startup calls lat#systartup, which is assumed to have customized> settings. lat$systartup is not overwritten by system updates,  lat$startup may be.E    d -- tN Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Apr 2003 09:51:18 -04008 From: "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon+usenet@irtnog.org>8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process& Message-ID: <uhe9a1kmh.fsf@irtnog.org>  2 >>>>> "John" == John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  B     John> I don't know if you caught this, but the file you add toD     John> systartup_vms.com to start LAT is lat$startup.com, but the<     John> file you edit to customize it is lat$SYstartup.com  F No, I missed that.  Is this convention of foo$startup.com to start theC service and foo$systartup.com to customize the startup common amongl2 all VMS programs?  Or is it an OpenVMS thing only?  B     John> Did you remove the comment character (exclamation point)8     John> from sys$manager:net$logicals.com in the line:6     John>  $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/NOLOG NET$STARTUP_MOP TRUE  C Fortunately for me, NET$CONFIGURE did this automatically.  Given my 7 newbie status, I doubt I would have found it on my own.   E Just to clarify, MOP service does work for me.  It's just that I haveoD to do an "NCP SET NODE ..." each time I reboot, as "DEFINE NODE ..."& doesn't change the permanent database.   Thanks for your help,  Matthew+   -- TF Matthew X. Economou <xenophon@irtnog.org> - Unsafe at any clock speed!F I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian heritage! (http://www.subgenius.com)G "The reason that ed is the standard editor is to remind you that thingsS? could be worse, and once were." -- Tim Lavoie in comp.lang.lispM   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Apr 2003 16:46:16 +0200n' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)-8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process+ Message-ID: <zLaNQ+cEIKbs@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>t  a In article <uhe9a1kmh.fsf@irtnog.org>, "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon+usenet@irtnog.org> writes:  > H > No, I missed that.  Is this convention of foo$startup.com to start theE > service and foo$systartup.com to customize the startup common among 4 > all VMS programs?  Or is it an OpenVMS thing only? OpenVMS IS VMS .J The convention of providing customizable foo$SYstartup seems to come with 0 more and more components. Just have a look with 8 directory sys$startup:*$systartup.* to learn which ones. > G > Just to clarify, MOP service does work for me.  It's just that I have F > to do an "NCP SET NODE ..." each time I reboot, as "DEFINE NODE ..."( > doesn't change the permanent database.  , Do I remember correctly: You have Decnet V ?K In this case the NCP command is an old interface, and probably does simply r< not go into the MOP 'database', which is net$mop_client*.* .; net$configure has an "add MOP client" menu entry. try that.A  o --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:48:38 -0400r& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process8 Message-ID: <cae39voqq0p80hei35p1ptsae4h6ouques@4ax.com>  4 On 07 Apr 2003 09:51:18 -0400, "Matthew X. Economou"# <xenophon+usenet@irtnog.org> wrote:   3 >>>>>> "John" == John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  >VC >    John> I don't know if you caught this, but the file you add toaE >    John> systartup_vms.com to start LAT is lat$startup.com, but the,= >    John> file you edit to customize it is lat$SYstartup.como >(G >No, I missed that.  Is this convention of foo$startup.com to start thegD >service and foo$systartup.com to customize the startup common among3 >all VMS programs?  Or is it an OpenVMS thing only?r  P As someone replied already, VMS and OpenVMS are the same thing. The "convention"N of foo$STARTUP.COM and foo$SYSTARTUP.COM is only a few products, you certainlyI can't count on it! If in doubt, read the documentation or the "top level"eI startup procedure itself. Many products don't provide any standard way ofsN site-specific startup. My personal preferred convention for that is to write aL .COM of my own which first invokes the standard startup, then on return does) whatever site-specific stuff is required.m  B It appears that, over time, more hp-provided products will use the( foo$STARTUP.COM (or similar) convention.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------rI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comaI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)fI -------------------------------------------------------------------------w   ------------------------------    Date: 07 Apr 2003 22:11:18 -04008 From: "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon+usenet@irtnog.org>8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process& Message-ID: <ubrzh20xl.fsf@irtnog.org>  ; >>>>> "Joseph" == Joseph Huber <huber@mppmu.mpg.de> writes:   E     Joseph> Do I remember correctly: You have Decnet V ? In this case B     Joseph> the NCP command is an old interface, and probably does;     Joseph> simply not go into the MOP 'database', which is.E     Joseph> net$mop_client*.* . net$configure has an "add MOP client"u!     Joseph> menu entry. try that.   e@ That worked!  Thank you so much!  Just for other VMS newbies out? there, my NCL script as created by NET$CONFIGURE looks like the 
 following:   CREATE NODE 0 MOPn ENABLE NODE 0 MOPG CREATE NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXTw- SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT CIRCUIT CSMACD-0EO SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT ADDRESSES = {08-00-2B-9A-F0-EE, AA-00-04-00-03-04}ET SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT SYSTEM IMAGE = {"SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VXT$LIBRARY}VXTEX.SYS"}> SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT VERIFICATION = %X00000000000000006 SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT PHASE IV HOST NAME ECOAXP6 SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT PHASE IV HOST ADDRESS 1.18 SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT PHASE IV CLIENT NAME ECOVXT8 SET NODE 0 MOP CLIENT ECOVXT PHASE IV CLIENT ADDRESS 1.3  E Again, for the newbies, you get the circuit ID from the configurationlE summary provided by NET$CONFIGURE menu option 3 (look for a line that . says "Routing circuit name"), or from the file0 SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]NET$MOP_CIRCUIT_STARTUP.NCL.  * Thank you, everyone, for all of your help!   --  F Matthew X. Economou <xenophon@irtnog.org> - Unsafe at any clock speed!F I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian heritage! (http://www.subgenius.com)G "The reason that ed is the standard editor is to remind you that thingst? could be worse, and once were." -- Tim Lavoie in comp.lang.lispy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 23:47:57 -0400  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>8 Subject: Re: Three questions re: the VMS startup process5 Message-ID: <1030407233136.2426B-100000@Ives.egh.com>f  ) On 7 Apr 2003, Matthew X. Economou wrote:a  4 > >>>>> "John" == John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: > D >     John> I don't know if you caught this, but the file you add toF >     John> systartup_vms.com to start LAT is lat$startup.com, but the> >     John> file you edit to customize it is lat$SYstartup.com > H > No, I missed that.  Is this convention of foo$startup.com to start theE > service and foo$systartup.com to customize the startup common among 4 > all VMS programs?  Or is it an OpenVMS thing only?  E Umm, "VMS" and "OpenVMS" are the same thing.  (The "Open" is silent.)o  D Or do you mean VAX vs. Alpha?  LAT$STARTUP.COM and LAT$SYSTARTUP.COME are identical on VAX and Alpha (except for some comments in the 2nd.)a  C AMDS and ICC seem to follow the same convention, but I've never hadpB to customize either of these.  I think it is a custom more honored in the breach.  D >     John> Did you remove the comment character (exclamation point): >     John> from sys$manager:net$logicals.com in the line:8 >     John>  $! DEFINE/SYSTEM/NOLOG NET$STARTUP_MOP TRUE > E > Fortunately for me, NET$CONFIGURE did this automatically.  Given my=9 > newbie status, I doubt I would have found it on my own.T > G > Just to clarify, MOP service does work for me.  It's just that I have F > to do an "NCP SET NODE ..." each time I reboot, as "DEFINE NODE ..."( > doesn't change the permanent database. >  > Thanks for your help,i	 > Matthew.   --   John Santos$ Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:02:18 GMT + From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>  Subject: Re: unixn) Message-ID: <ubrzi4cw4.fsf@earthlink.net>   , Sami S. Sihvonen <noco@sunpoint.net> writes:G > IBM has gone Free Software (GNU General Public License) in a big way. G > Yes, they support the one and only original GNU Project that has been < > almost 20 years creating Free Software with hacker ethics.  C that was the way pretty much everything was in the '60s and much of ; the '70s. ... the non-charged/charged for software threads:p0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#2 SchedulersH http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#126 Dispute about Internet's originsP http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#209 Core (word usage) was anti-equipment etc@ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#44 WHAT IS A MAINFRAME???S http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#74 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)bA http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 VM/370 Resource Manager 3 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#50 Microcode? @ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#3 Tweaking old computers?F http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033/ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#36 HASP: B http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#17 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#18 unix. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#20 unix. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#35 unix: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#56 Reviving Multics   -- -3 Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ nA Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htmF   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:44:23 +0000 (UTC)8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Subject: Re: unixm- Message-ID: <b6sgu7$qlm$6@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>5  8 In article <sliu8vst1ctiqhjend6cue39urh88u7d2j@sex.bar>,, Sami S. Sihvonen  <noco@sunpoint.net> wrote:. >In article <b4j17d$9ic$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>,: >hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote:  ; >> Which code? IBM has gone for open source in a *big* way,t  F >IBM has gone Free Software (GNU General Public License) in a big way.F >Yes, they support the one and only original GNU Project that has been; >almost 20 years creating Free Software with hacker ethics.l  6 No, not just GNU.  Apache comes to mind very quicklyu.  J >> I'm not sure that Red Hat even *has* any code any more that isn't open.  F >Linux-kernel and all major GNU/Linux distributions are released underG >GNU General Public License as Free Software. Just like Red Hat does...l  E Uhh, Debian is the only GNU/Linux that I know of (OK, and a couple ofaG its offshoots).  The rest are Linux.  Anyway, the point is that Red HatE' used to include some proprietaryu code.    hawk -- dK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignvG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mail D These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:47:52 +0100 1 From: Mark Round <mNaOrk.rSoPuAnMd7@ntlworld.com>  Subject: Up and running!> Message-ID: <mEkka.1331$HZ2.514@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>  J Many thanks to everyone who replied to my earlier posts - I have now got aK DECUS number, and my VAX Hobbyist CD arrived in the post this morning. I'vehI just got everything installed, and am sat at a DCL prompt wondering wheree I'm going to start!n  L One quick question for any SIMH users here... (Sorry if this is off-topic) IF have built SIMH with networking support, and VAX/NetBSD worked OK withI pinging/connectivity to the other machines on my network, but not to/from  the "host" OS (Linux).   M I know this is probably a "It can't be done" scenario, but I'd like to have,  L say, the emulator running under one X term, and a telnet/SSH session to the K emulated VAX in another, on the same machine. Or even a nested X-Session toi
 DECWindows...   - My current setup on the PC in question is :- s   eth0 : DHCP (cable internet)  L eth1: 10.1.1.1 (Linux "real" IP address) and 10.1.1.5 (emulated VAX network  card)     L So, I've tried pinging 10.1.1.5, but it doesn't respond. Has anyone got thisH working on SIMH on a Linux box ? I'm still saving for a real Alpha, so I, have to make do with this for the moment....  
 Thanks again,m   -Marke   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:45:13 -0700. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>" Subject: VAX/Alpha VMS differencesF Message-ID: <OF038F8E26.3E85BCE7-ON07256D01.006C0D82@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks:   Is there an HP document that  C 1. Lists the differences between DCL commands on VAX/VMS 7.3 versus< Alpha/VMS 7.3-1?  J 2. Lists which layered products are available for one architecture but not
 the other?  @ Or perhaps someone has composed such a list that I could borrow?  G I'd like to say to everyone that VMS is VMS unlike UNIX.  But I know it  just ain't so.   dave.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:34:38 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r& Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences' Message-ID: <3E92272E.1E7575AB@fsi.net>a   David D Miller wrote:t >  > Folks: >  > Is there an HP document that > E > 1. Lists the differences between DCL commands on VAX/VMS 7.3 versush > Alpha/VMS 7.3-1? > L > 2. Lists which layered products are available for one architecture but not > the other? > B > Or perhaps someone has composed such a list that I could borrow?  A I've nothing formal, but AFAIK, the docset still identifies thosenF features that are architecture-specific. HELP does a lot of that also,4 but it seems less reliable than the docset for that.   Dunno if that helps...   -- n David J. DachteraU dba DJE SystemsA http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:51:25 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>t7 Subject: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?e/ Message-ID: <b6socc$j7a$1@titan.btinternet.com>   	 Hi Brian,f   Thanks very much for that!  5 More than happy to pay up next time you're over here.o   Cheers Richard.   , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1E09B.2765B9D7@SendSpamHere.ORG...D > In article <b6sdoa$sim$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"% <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:c > >Hi, > > B > >I desperately need to find out if the sys$library:dti$share.exe routines: -  > >S
 > >sys$getdtio > >lm$ssopen > >lm$ssread_by_tid.
 > >lm$sscloseo > >tJ > >are on the VMS source listing CD. I willing to bribe someone with lunch (oruH > >beers after Easter) if they can confirm their existance on the CD, or evenD > >better tell me the format and passing mechanism for the three LM$	 routines.i > >n > >Cheers Richard Maher. >i0 > Excellent.  I like good bitters and dark ales. >eF > SYS$GETDTI  exists on the source listings CD in [<version>.DDTM.LIS] >0. > The LM$ routines can be found there as well. >  >j > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >d6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:33:43 GMTs" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG7 Subject: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?D0 Message-ID: <00A1E09B.2765B9D7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <b6sdoa$sim$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: >Hi, >SL >I desperately need to find out if the sys$library:dti$share.exe routines: - >d >sys$getdti 
 >lm$ssopen >lm$ssread_by_tidi >lm$sscloseA >0L >are on the VMS source listing CD. I willing to bribe someone with lunch (orK >beers after Easter) if they can confirm their existance on the CD, or eventL >better tell me the format and passing mechanism for the three LM$ routines. >o >Cheers Richard Maher.  0 Excellent.  I like good bitters and dark ales.    D SYS$GETDTI  exists on the source listings CD in [<version>.DDTM.LIS]  , The LM$ routines can be found there as well.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:42:46 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG7 Subject: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?e0 Message-ID: <00A1E0C6.53836E81@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <b6socc$j7a$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:n
 >Hi Brian, >o >Thanks very much for that!w >u6 >More than happy to pay up next time you're over here. >  >Cheers Richard.  L Marillion are planning a world tour next year which will likely rule out theL yearly weekend convention in 2004, so I might not be able to collect my com- pensation until 2005. :)  M Let me know if you really need the argument calling format (that ought to be i, worth a fortnight stay in a public house ;).     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMj            A5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 0   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2003 22:43:27 -0000t* From: Madame Mezei <mmemezei@videotron.ca>C Subject: WE ACCEPT!!! Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF MezeiW7 Message-ID: <J7E7P3WJ37717.7385069444@anonymous.poster>n  @ >"Gregory Morrow" <gregoryDOTHEREmorrow@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > L >>JF Mezei aka "the dissaffected French - Canadien" wrote on rec.travel.air: >> >>G >> >I am offended by the scenes of yanks and poms tearing >down images,s
 >>statues andvL >>> other synmbols of hussein.  Those belong to the people of Iraq and it is >>up toON >>> them to decide whether they want to keep those or not. And of they despiseL >>> Hussein, they should have the "pleasure" of tearing them down once peace >>is
 >>> restored.t >>> K >>> Such destruction is a true sign of imperial occupation force which will . >>> dictate to Iraqis how to live. Very wrong. >> >>
 >>Discuss. > L >With his "coverage" <ahem> of the war, JF has finally earned a long-overdueK >nomination for Kook of the Month (he deserves Kook of the Millenium, but I ! >don't think they have that one).'  O Hello, this is Mrs. Mezei, JF's mother.  JF is busy right now, he's taking his dL afternoon masturbation break, but I would like to say that on behalf of the M entire Mezei family we happily accept this Kook of the Month award.  This is p. the proudest JF has made us in his whole life.   Please send the award to :   Mezei Family 86 Harwood Gaten Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3d  P We are available for interviews and photo sessions at any time, you may call us  at (514)697-5096.e     Merci bien,t   Madame Mezei   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:38:29 +10002 From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>G Subject: Re: WE ACCEPT!!! Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezeir; Message-ID: <3e910ecd$0$3883$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>h  0 X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu. Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net   Says it all, really.   Coward!s   -- Alan Erskine alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au The Coalition of the Willing,s against the Axis of Evil,0 In a War of the Damned    7 "Madame Mezei" <mmemezei@videotron.ca> wrote in messages1 news:J7E7P3WJ37717.7385069444@anonymous.poster...sB > >"Gregory Morrow" <gregoryDOTHEREmorrow@worldnet.att.net> wrote: > >e> > >>JF Mezei aka "the dissaffected French - Canadien" wrote on rec.travel.air:  > >> > >>I > >> >I am offended by the scenes of yanks and poms tearing >down images,r > >>statues andpK > >>> other synmbols of hussein.  Those belong to the people of Iraq and it  is	 > >>up to-H > >>> them to decide whether they want to keep those or not. And of they despise.H > >>> Hussein, they should have the "pleasure" of tearing them down once peaced > >>is > >>> restored.3 > >>>DH > >>> Such destruction is a true sign of imperial occupation force which will0 > >>> dictate to Iraqis how to live. Very wrong. > >> > >> > >>Discuss. > >iA > >With his "coverage" <ahem> of the war, JF has finally earned al long-overdueK > >nomination for Kook of the Month (he deserves Kook of the Millenium, buti Is# > >don't think they have that one).o >tL > Hello, this is Mrs. Mezei, JF's mother.  JF is busy right now, he's taking hissI > afternoon masturbation break, but I would like to say that on behalf oft the K > entire Mezei family we happily accept this Kook of the Month award.  Thisd is0 > the proudest JF has made us in his whole life. >  > Please send the award to : >f > Mezei Family > 86 Harwood Gate, > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3l > I > We are available for interviews and photo sessions at any time, you maye call usd > at (514)697-5096.p >o >a
 > Merci bien,a >a > Madame Mezei >o >	 >s >h   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 20:56:50 +0000 (UTC)/ From: "Mr. 4X" <random.erefu@lltsa.invalid.com>u6 Subject: Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei1 Message-ID: <Xns9355E9F4E7A16mr4x@195.228.240.20>>   RTA <rec@travel.air> wrote:w  A > "Gregory Morrow" <gregoryDOTHEREmorrow@worldnet.att.net> wrote:d > < >>JF Mezei aka "the dissaffected French - Canadien" wrote on >>rec.travel.air:  >> >>G >> >I am offended by the scenes of yanks and poms tearing >down images,i
 >>statues andeF >>> other synmbols of hussein.  Those belong to the people of Iraq and
 >>> it is  >>up toiF >>> them to decide whether they want to keep those or not. And of theyD >>> despise Hussein, they should have the "pleasure" of tearing them >>> down once peace  >>is
 >>> restored.> >>>tF >>> Such destruction is a true sign of imperial occupation force which3 >>> will dictate to Iraqis how to live. Very wrong.e >> >>
 >>Discuss. > @ > With his "coverage" <ahem> of the war, JF has finally earned aH > long-overdue nomination for Kook of the Month (he deserves Kook of the > Millenium_  F Don't be so sure - there is also Californiacrap, Fartie, Dumbass Min, 6 Robert 'MEGATARD' McAsshole, Twacky and many others...  ) >, but I don't think they have that one).d  s > Calling for votes....... >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:36:36 +10002 From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>6 Subject: Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei; Message-ID: <3e910e5c$0$3883$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>g  # X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca    -- Alan Erskine alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au The Coalition of the Willing,a against the Axis of Evil,r In a War of the Damned    E "You" <me@you.com> wrote in message news:3E905E98.F92DDBC2@you.com...i > Chris wrote: > >rK > > LOL...this coming from an anonymous entity who posts (trolls, actually)  as > > "Me" (and "you").  > >r > > ROFL!!!o > >a. > > Next KOTM after JF's should go him/her/it. >u5 > And next should go to you.  At least I use the sames2 > anonymous name.  Yours (dont@takeanyspam.no) was* > apparently created just for this thread.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:37:14 +10002 From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>6 Subject: Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei; Message-ID: <3e910e82$0$3881$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   B X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca  Same as "You"... interesting.   -- Alan Erskine alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au The Coalition of the Willing,e against the Axis of Evil,f In a War of the Damned    C "Me" <You@Me.com> wrote in message news:3E9058D9.1CC0EB94@Me.com...d > RTA wrote: >r6 > Sorry, nominations can't come from anonymous people. >  > Motion rejected.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 09:39:46 -0400s From: scott <dkf747@junk.net>x6 Subject: Re: [NOMINATION] Kook of the Month - JF Mezei8 Message-ID: <fpv29vkr6gojj1m3nchbu1bn2f9jr3l2ug@4ax.com>  9 On 6 Apr 2003 15:58:25 -0000, RTA <rec@travel.air> wrote:S  @ >"Gregory Morrow" <gregoryDOTHEREmorrow@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >cL >>JF Mezei aka "the dissaffected French - Canadien" wrote on rec.travel.air: >> >>G >> >I am offended by the scenes of yanks and poms tearing >down images,s
 >>statues and L >>> other synmbols of hussein.  Those belong to the people of Iraq and it is >>up to N >>> them to decide whether they want to keep those or not. And of they despiseL >>> Hussein, they should have the "pleasure" of tearing them down once peace >>is
 >>> restored.i >>>uK >>> Such destruction is a true sign of imperial occupation force which willn. >>> dictate to Iraqis how to live. Very wrong. >> >>
 >>Discuss. >lM >With his "coverage" <ahem> of the war, JF has finally earned a long-overdue wL >nomination for Kook of the Month (he deserves Kook of the Millenium, but I ! >don't think they have that one).- >- >Calling for votes.......o >0  E He's in the 4th year of his term as President of the Kooks.  Time forn( reelection.  His running mate is Sjoerd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:25:13 -04008 From: "Rhonda Lea Kirk" <rhondaleakirk@worldnet.att.net>7 Subject: Re: [very OT] Re: Elvis has left the building!s5 Message-ID: <b6sn2e$8ni03$1@ID-181658.news.dfncis.de>o   Docter said: > Alan Erskine schrieb:i   > <blah, blah snipped >  >  >> Alan Erskinei >n4 > Stop drinking and don't forget to take your pills.   So let's get the tally here.  E You showed up on March 21. You've posted to .history 7 times, and all D but three were cross-posts. You've posted to .station once, and thatE was a cross-post. Finally, you've posted to .shuttle 7 times, and allnE but 2 were cross-posts. All of the posts are in the war threads. Mostt of the posts are abusive.m  C So what's your point, bud? Do you think those scrambled headers are.+ going to stop an abuse report? Think again.l   rl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:02:07 +0200+ From: "Docter" <docter-nospam-@nosport.com>i3 Subject: [very OT] Re: Elvis has left the building!a* Message-ID: <3e91daea$1_1@news.bluewin.ch>  A <Alan Erskine alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitragw3 news:QYCO3ZHR37718.8764351852@Gilgamesh-frog.org...-   <blah, blah snipped >:   > Alan Erskine  2 Stop drinking and don't forget to take your pills.   Docter   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.193 ************************