1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 12 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 201       Contents:' Re: Another day without VMS advertising 5 Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately! 5 Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately! 5 Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately! 5 Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!  Re: CHARON VAX Hobbyist kit , Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, RE: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected, Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson  Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson  Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson  Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson  Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson / Re: Is DCPS 2.2 for AXP available for download? ! Re: last-accessed date/time field ! Re: last-accessed date/time field  Re: looking for VMS work Re: looking for VMS work Re: looking for VMS work Re: looking for VMS work Memory for Alpha 800 Re: Memory for Alpha 800$ Need help pricing used VAX equipment( Re: Need help pricing used VAX equipment( Re: Need help pricing used VAX equipment5 Re: OT: CSABA is not aborigine, he is hungarian ! :-O  OT: google filter  Re: OT: google filter - Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX 1 Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX 1 Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX 1 Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX " Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP$ RL0? Can someone tell me what it is?( Re: RL0? Can someone tell me what it is?( Re: RL0? Can someone tell me what it is? Re: Serial connection to VAX/ Re: So much for Opteron 32bit compatibility ... I starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes M Re: starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes M Re: starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes  Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS RE: VAX 4000/100 or is it? Re: VAX 4000/100 or is it?% Re: VAX hardware support alternatives % Re: VAX hardware support alternatives  Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences G Re: VMS Engineering quality standards, was: Re: Problem with VMS731_LAN   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:05:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 0 Subject: Re: Another day without VMS advertisingF Message-ID: <imEla.2910$BQi.2387@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0304110924.604723a5@posting.google.com... 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:<7Lija.37941$pNv.9850@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... @ > > HP says applications sells systems. Cool. But how many stock
 exchanges are ; > > there in the world that OM Group can sell to? 150 or so  > F > OM's software is used for a variety of different types of exchanges:F > stocks, options, bonds, power, currency, commodities, etc.  So theirA > market is bigger than just stock exchanges.  A few years ago, I C > believe they had 180 installations, and I hear about new ones all  the - > time, so I'm sure the number is higher now.     F 'Exchanges' - yeas I am aware of the many nuances of these and of OM'sD offerings. 150 or 180 doesn't make one hell of a difference when theB market is millions of systems in other lines of business. How manyD other competition killer apps are available on VMS besides Cerner's?  > Or is it really a case of there being so few apps commercially? available any longer like these on VMS that HP's mantra of apps D selling systems is BS, and that most VMS apps still in existence areC 'home-grown' - which means that VMS has to be sold using advertsing  and marketing done by HP?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:42:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> > Subject: Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!E Message-ID: <I7Dla.2047$BQi.594@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0304110853.30d0c66c@posting.google.com... F > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message; news:<53937ce14b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>... ; > > How about a hobbyist rate for the conference in future?  > @ > While I think that's a great idea, another way to mitigate theA > registration costs is to participate as a speaker, either for a % > session or a pre-symposium seminar.   9 That's great if you are at a high enough technical level.   E But if you are a laid-off VMS cluster manager wanting to stay current D and possibly network in order to find a job, or simply interested in# VMS from a hobbyist perspective....   : Yes, paying hotels/convention facilities for food service,D tables/chairs, etc...based on head count is costly, but it isn't theF whole story....many (not all) conventions/user groups offer .edu typesC significant discounts on fees. Many have certain sessions as 'open' E sessions for which no fee is applicable, many have free access to the  exhibitor areas.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:58:20 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> > Subject: Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!E Message-ID: <gfEla.2835$BQi.812@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message / news:b76v8g$bitfs$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...  > In article: <I7Dla.2047$BQi.594@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > D > >                many (not all) conventions/user groups offer .edu types " > > significant discounts on fees. > F > I have never seen a conference that offered discounts to .edu types.D > That's why I don't get to go any more.  The University isn't about2 > to shell out the kind of money they get anymore.    @ Usually students, not faculty. I should have been more specific.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 15:32:01 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!3 Message-ID: <YkNF68F8PAul@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <a98cd882.0304110313.1b6ed27a@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes: > > To all who are concerned about the use of the word "legacy": > H > In the Conference Program Committee we have kind of agreed to disagree
 > about this.  > G > The word "legacy" is used without any negative intention and based on B > what the word actually means in the Industry: older systems with > limited industry support.   C    In the meantime, in another line of business, folks are spending A    millions of dollars to launch a product next week to "create a     legacy".   +    And Subaru still likes thiers just fine.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:22:16 -0300 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!/ Message-ID: <3E9723F6.5308B2CD@vl.videotron.ca>    Bart Zorn wrote:G > The word "legacy" is used without any negative intention and based on B > what the word actually means in the Industry: older systems with > limited industry support.   L DG AOS VS is "legacy". But VMS isn't. VMS runs TCPIP, web servers, Xwindows,F Oracle, clustering etc, and technically is NOT legacy. Just because itN supports legacy applications doesn't make the OS legacy as long as it supports modern applications.  F Supporting legacy application is great investment protection. ConsiderI ALL-IN-1, had it not been killed, it would have been 20 year old piece of L software that had evolved from character cell, client-server and web access,L implemented POP and IMAP, LDAP etc while maintaining character cell support." Talk about investkment protection.  H The problem with VMS is that its owner allows others (or even itself) toG portray VMS as legacy and let the marketplace dismiss that IS as an old  abandonned piece of crap.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:39:52 -0500  From: Bob Nestor <bob@bob.org>$ Subject: Re: CHARON VAX Hobbyist kit= Message-ID: <bob-C015A8.16395111042003@east.isp.giganews.com>   ) In article <b76con$jqq8@ncsftp.dana.com>, .  "Stephen Eickhoff" <abuse@example.com> wrote:  7 > "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote in message ( > news:3E9589FF.1099.82923A@localhost...M > > > Don't see a dowload for this on their site. Anyone know where I can get  > a  > > > copy for W2K.  > > H > > Sorry -- a few rotten eggs ruined the whole deal.  There are severalB > > commercial installations running the Hobbyist version.  So, no > > downloads. > M > I can't imagine how they ever got it running. Wouldn't work on any test box 
 > I tried.  H I must be missing something here.  The VAX simh freeware works.  I runs I all the DEC diagnostics so I can't imagine it is much different from the  H Charon kit - other than speed.  I've installed and tested VMS 5.5-2 and G 6.1 with it and others have reported success with the lastest versions  I of VMS.  I have run it on Intel, Mac, SGI and Sun systems, in some cases  F with full networking support.  At work I even validated it for use in H rebuilding over 120,000 lines of Ada code and have yet to find anything F that doesn't work identically to a "real" VAX.  My 2.2 Ghz PC running C NetBSD with the VAX simh software is twice as fast as the real VAX  H hardware I'm looking at replacing.  In fact my experiments at work have H been so successful that my employer is transferring licenses so all our A remaining VAX hardware can be replaced with PCs running VAX simh.    -bob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:39:34 -0400 + From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> 5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected 8 Message-ID: <gavd9v83cub4fvcml5reqooh8aggdgi0bl@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:34:18 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:     ? > 554 <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: Client host rejected: Access denied   D My guess is that this is HP's ineffective spam filter at work.  ThisF is the error you get when the HP mail server decides that your sending@ server is on the blocklist it uses.  Very confusing and not veryE helpful, not to mention that whatever it is they're doing doesn't cut = down on spam to any significant degree, if my HP inbox is any  indication.       D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com   Steve Lionel Software Products Division Intel Corporation 
 Nashua, NH  = User communities for Intel Fortran and Compaq Visual Fortran:     http://intel.com/IDS/community   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:29:09 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected 0 Message-ID: <00A1E3BF.2F4C4CDC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  f In article <gavd9v83cub4fvcml5reqooh8aggdgi0bl@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes:D >On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:34:18 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >  > @ >> 554 <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: Client host rejected: Access denied > E >My guess is that this is HP's ineffective spam filter at work.  This G >is the error you get when the HP mail server decides that your sending A >server is on the blocklist it uses.  Very confusing and not very F >helpful, not to mention that whatever it is they're doing doesn't cut> >down on spam to any significant degree, if my HP inbox is any >indication.  C Considering all of the unsolicited crap that I now get from HP, it  ' is HP who should be on the "blocklist"!   C I'd like to see this "blocklist" and I'd like to know why my domain D is upon it.  I suppose they don't want to keep the few VMS customers they still have?     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:22:48 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected = Message-ID: <cCEla.25468$D31.2474211@news1.news.adelphia.net>    VAXman- wrote: > E > I'd like to see this "blocklist" and I'd like to know why my domain F > is upon it.  I suppose they don't want to keep the few VMS customers > they still have?  D I am not at the office, but e-mail from encompasserve to hp.com was H bouncing at the first time I saw the thread.  Address in the message is  munged.   H This code I got was not a bounce from a spam filter, I looks like there 4 is a mail server that does not have any users in it.  G Only one of my test e-mails bounced, the second one, so this indicates   that it is one of   ,    Recipient address: hidden.user@hp.com.foo2    Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected addressC    Diagnostic code: smtp;550 <hidden.user@hp.com.foo>: User unknown "    Remote system: dns;smtp.hp.com @ (TCP|192.135.80.34|3271|192.151.27.8|25) (mailroom.hp.com ESMTP)    C It may be just one mail server that has this problem, or it may be  H fixed, because I just sent myself test e-mails to the corporate address 9 and to my office OpenVMS system, and neither one bounced.   G I do not know what is going on, and may never find out.  I expect this  G to be a temporary condition that if is not already cleared up, will be   shortly.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:57:15 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected F Message-ID: <feEla.2821$BQi.1720@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1E3BF.2F4C4CDC@SendSpamHere.ORG...@ > In article <gavd9v83cub4fvcml5reqooh8aggdgi0bl@4ax.com>, Steve' Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes: F > >On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:34:18 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >  > > B > >> 554 <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: Client host rejected: Access denied > > A > >My guess is that this is HP's ineffective spam filter at work.  ThisA > >is the error you get when the HP mail server decides that your  sending C > >server is on the blocklist it uses.  Very confusing and not very D > >helpful, not to mention that whatever it is they're doing doesn't cut @ > >down on spam to any significant degree, if my HP inbox is any > >indication. > D > Considering all of the unsolicited crap that I now get from HP, it) > is HP who should be on the "blocklist"!  > E > I'd like to see this "blocklist" and I'd like to know why my domain F > is upon it.  I suppose they don't want to keep the few VMS customers > they still have?    D Same reason anyone who raises concerns about the Iraq war is labeledF 'unpatriotic' - complain about the authority or its abuse or direction and you're blacklisted.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:22:31 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected 0 Message-ID: <00A1E3C6.A35BF547@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <feEla.2821$BQi.1720@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: {...snip...}E >Same reason anyone who raises concerns about the Iraq war is labeled G >'unpatriotic' - complain about the authority or its abuse or direction  >and you're blacklisted.  J Well, I suppose I could air their dirty laundry right here in COV but I'llG give them a day to fix their problem before resorting to the draconian.   H I'm so happy that HP's accounting figures are looking so good that they H can afford to piss away their loyal (well, ok I'm a DEC loyalist but...)
 customers.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:54:24 -0400 * From: "Stewart, Bill" <wjs-corp@Kaman.com>5 Subject: RE: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected < Message-ID: <1E4B06029E11D211B47C0000F8207F4D01B9F7E7@ESKC2>   John,   0 	Can you get in touch with me wjs-corp@kaman.com Thanks!    Bill   ->-----Original Message-----4 ->From: John E. Malmberg [mailto:wb8tyw@qsl.network]& ->Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 3:23 PM ->To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 ->Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected  -> -> ->VAXman- wrote: ->> G ->> I'd like to see this "blocklist" and I'd like to know why my domain H ->> is upon it.  I suppose they don't want to keep the few VMS customers ->> they still have? ->F ->I am not at the office, but e-mail from encompasserve to hp.com was ? ->bouncing at the first time I saw the thread.  Address in the  
 ->message is  	 ->munged.  ->? ->This code I got was not a bounce from a spam filter, I looks  
 ->like there  6 ->is a mail server that does not have any users in it. ->? ->Only one of my test e-mails bounced, the second one, so this   ->indicates  ->that it is one of  ->. ->   Recipient address: hidden.user@hp.com.foo4 ->   Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected addressE ->   Diagnostic code: smtp;550 <hidden.user@hp.com.foo>: User unknown $ ->   Remote system: dns;smtp.hp.com B ->(TCP|192.135.80.34|3271|192.151.27.8|25) (mailroom.hp.com ESMTP) -> ->E ->It may be just one mail server that has this problem, or it may be  8 ->fixed, because I just sent myself test e-mails to the  ->corporate address ; ->and to my office OpenVMS system, and neither one bounced.  ->= ->I do not know what is going on, and may never find out.  I   ->expect this = ->to be a temporary condition that if is not already cleared   ->up, will be 
 ->shortly. -> ->-John  ->wb8tyw@qsl.network ->Personal Opinion Only  ->   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:48:29 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected 0 Message-ID: <00A1E3D2.A5CB99EF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <cCEla.25468$D31.2474211@news1.news.adelphia.net>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  {...snip...}H >I do not know what is going on, and may never find out.  I expect this H >to be a temporary condition that if is not already cleared up, will be 	 >shortly.   E I don't call two days of bounced mails a "temporary condition".  I've E been trying to contact Mr. Graves for two days and even asked via an- 9 other party to check and confirm the address I was using.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:26:06 -0300 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>5 Subject: Re: Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected / Message-ID: <3E9724DB.A2DAD3FB@vl.videotron.ca>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > L > Will somebody inside of VMS engineering please alert the folks running theK > hpma910.external.hp.com ESMTP Sendmail 8.9.3 system that emails are being  > rejected with error 554.  G Are you sending from an SMTP server that is on a RBL ? At one pointy, I  couldn't send to HP.com either.   M Hint: try sending to compaq.com they have different anti-spam settings (or at   least they had a few months ago)   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Apr 2003 19:08:10 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson5 Message-ID: <b773qq$bmtqu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   E In article <_bEla.2795$BQi.597@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, & 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > D > But using VMS where possible could offer reduced system management > head-count,   B Funny how I keep hearing this but I have at least twice the number< of servers and 1/4 the manpower of the Datacenters VMS shop.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:54:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: HP, P&G, EricssonE Message-ID: <_bEla.2795$BQi.597@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   / "Brad Hughes" <brad@tgsmc.com> wrote in message " news:3E96FCF6.1070908@tgsmc.com... > F http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20030411-000371-112 2  >  > Any VMS in these contracts?  >   , No idea, but my guess would be probably not.  : It may have to do with the number and breadth of 3rd-partyF applications availablefor the given tasks, and which applications have5 been rolled into the outsourcing agreements, eg. SAP.   B But using VMS where possible could offer reduced system managementA head-count, and improve application SLA availability, which would , improve HP's bottom line on these contracts.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 15:03:10 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304111403.7946f1ef@posting.google.com>   R Brad Hughes <brad@tgsmc.com> wrote in message news:<3E96FCF6.1070908@tgsmc.com>...I > http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20030411-000371-1122  >  > Any VMS in these contracts?   F Well, I know that at least P&G has VMS systems.  It's quite likely the= others do as well.  I'm told VMS services provide $2B/year in C revenues, which is about 2.5% of HP's total revenues.  Last results > had total HP service revenues at about $9B annually, so VMS is/ obviously a very important part of HP Services.   ? HP was rated #1 in customer satisfaction among Managed Services B (Outsourcing) vendors in a recent survey.  IBM was ranked #7.  SeeE http://h50021.www5.hp.com/apnews/independent_survey.html  From the Q4  2002 quarterly results at C http://www.compaq.co.za/pressroom/pressroomarticle_print.asp?ID=531 5 "According to a recent Information Week survey of 700 > business-technology professionals, HP ranked first in customerB satisfaction among outsourcing suppliers. HP earned top marks for,C among other things, executing service level agreements and for cost 4 and value."  The report is available for purchase at7 http://www.informationweek.com/reports/IWK20021115S0004   E DirecTV recently renewed their Managed Services agreement with HP for B another 5 years.  DirecTV has depended on VMS clusters as its core5 business systems ever since the company started.  See : http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4719395.htm  " More recent Managed Services wins:E http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/2002/hpswins02.html N http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/enterprise/story/0,2000025001,20271430,00.htmL http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2002/12/02/daily14.html   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 18:05:02 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson3 Message-ID: <NizqebnAxYQ2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <b773qq$bmtqu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:G > In article <_bEla.2795$BQi.597@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( > 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: >>  E >> But using VMS where possible could offer reduced system management  >> head-count,   > D > Funny how I keep hearing this but I have at least twice the number> > of servers and 1/4 the manpower of the Datacenters VMS shop.  F But on previous occasions you have posted that your activity is fundedD differently than theirs.  In your case it would seem something other# than OS selection might be at play.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:31:57 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: HP, P&G, Ericsson, Message-ID: <3E977A9D.6070204@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  G > In article <_bEla.2795$BQi.597@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, ( > 	"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > D >>But using VMS where possible could offer reduced system management >>head-count,  >> > D > Funny how I keep hearing this but I have at least twice the number> > of servers and 1/4 the manpower of the Datacenters VMS shop. >  > bill    7 Maybe the datacenter is practicing 'zero unemployment'.   N VMS doesn't need any daily operations staff, unless you set things up to need J such.  I'll go out on a limb here and state, to my knowledge, there is no O commercial OS available today that needs less staff than a properly set up VMS  P system.  Maybe emphasize PROPERLY SET UP, which does take significant skill and 
 knowledge.     Hey, shipped cables today.     Dave     --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:34:33 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: Is DCPS 2.2 for AXP available for download?5 Message-ID: <110420031434177370%paul.anderson@hp.com>   E In article <00A1E335.4B2A8ADD@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Alan Winston - < SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  @ > I poked around the www.openvms.compaq.com site and did variousF > searches, but couldn't find a place to download DCPS.  (My theory is@ > that it _should_ be available for download because, like CSWS,@ > CSWS_PERL, Availability Manager, etc, it's included in the VMSE > license, and you can't use it on anythingbut a VMS system anyway.)  1 > Is it available for download, and if so, where?   F DCPS is not available for download.  I see your argument for making itC so, but it is more like most other layered products in this regard.   G > But print jobs where I specify the /param=input_tray=tray_1 just die:  > : > %DCPS-E-INTRAYNOTSUP, No tray_1 tray on hp LaserJet 4200  H Your LaserJet 4200 is being treated by DCPS as an unrecognized printer. D The main things you can't do with an unrecognized printer are select; trays by name and use the printer's native PCL interpreter.   D DCPS V2.2, which supports the 4200, will solve your problem, as will> hacking around with the "unrecognized" device control modules.  A And until new printer firmware is released (soon I hear) you must E define the DCPS$queuename_NO_SYNC logical name for this printer.  But ( you must have done that to get this far.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 14:06:16 -0700& From: chessmaster1010@hotmail.com (JG)* Subject: Re: last-accessed date/time field= Message-ID: <dd3f0cb7.0304111306.3105df9e@posting.google.com>   E I don't understand why constantly checking the directory's expiration @ date is all that much better than constantly doing a f$search orD lib$find_file to check for the new files that you're interested it. ( In either case it's a polling operation.  F The only way to avoid polling is by using the lock manager, as someone@ else suggested.  A few years ago I found DIRECTORY_NOTFICATION.C@ written by James F. Duff of Austrailia, and I downloaded it from somewhere or another.   D The comments say written in 1994 and the code accesses a directory'sA file serialization lock in kernal mode.   So I thought it was the F solution to this problem.  But when I tested it it didn't work again. F In fact I think it crashed the system and I didn't want to risk trying to debug it.  A I'm guessing that Mr. Duff did not have a cluster environment.  I ; still have the source if anyone wants to take a look at it.     | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KULFQIJJKIAH3N2T@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...L > > I still don't understand why, as suggested by another poster, that usingG > > the modification date of the directory file wouldn't be better. The J > > expiration date of the directory will be changed when the directory is( > > read as well as when it is written.  > H > The modified date of the directory file is not (always) changed when a* > file is added to the directory.  Try it!   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 15:05:17 -0700. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)* Subject: Re: last-accessed date/time field= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0304111405.346d0000@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KUKFFAS6XKA9NUCE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...K > > From the remainder of your question it looks as if you want to test the J > > directory file in order to see if a file within it [the directory] has
 > > changed.   > F > Not if the FILE has CHANGED but rather if the FILE now exists where J > before it didn't and I'm assuming that the most efficient way to detect 4 > this would be to see if the DIRECTORY had changed. > B > > But can't you also open a file for write access but still makeF > > no changes? Is changing protection or ACL's modifying the file? Is5 > > changing the date field modifying the file? (sic)  > > @ > > Time to spill the beans about the problem you want to solve! > @ > I'm not concerned about modifications to the file, but rather I > modifications to the directory (file) caused by new files being copied   > there. > G > At the moment, the application uses F$SEARCH (or---I didn't write it  J > myself---probably a system (library) call) to see if the file exists in J > the directory---and does this for a relatively long list of files.  The K > files don't appear too often, but when they do, action needs to be taken  G > quickly.  Thus the idea was to insert the line with trailing comment   > into this pseudocode:  >  > loop > wait? > see if directory file has changed, if so then-     ! new line  > search for files > goto loop     > Well, you *did* ask about last-access dates, but the currentlyB available implementation of that, expiration dates with very smallE retention times, won't work because the .DIR's expiration date is not A updated when a file is added to the directory as has already been  posted. So,...  E Can you tell us more about your situation? Can you modify the program C that deposits the files in said directory? Does the directory where C the files are copied to have to be the same as where they stay when = they are processed? Why is there a mix of important files and B unimportant files in the same directory? Does every file copied to; this directory by that app have to be processed right away?   
 How about,  E Rename all files from your directory to another (new) directory which B is where you will process them. Now you have an empty directory to watch.  D Periodically check the directory with a single F$SEARCH("*.*") call.D If a file is found, then rename all files from that directory to the@ other directory and process them there. This way you can quicklyE detect new files without having to perform a lot of F$SEARCH commands A each time. You only need check for the long list of files after a 1 successful find with the single f$search command.    IOW, something like    $_LOOP:  $ CHECK = F$SEARCH("[dir1]*.*") # $ IF (CHECK.EQS."") THEN GOTO _WAIT B $ RENAME [dir1]*.* [dir2]         !! assumes no multiple versions! <process files in [dir2]>  $_WAIT:  $ WAIT <delta time>  $ GOTO _LOOP  
 Just an idea.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:10:56 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> ! Subject: Re: looking for VMS work + Message-ID: <3E972141.9FC7EF33@pacbell.net>    Alan Adams wrote:  >  <snip>O > > Currently, the average job search is taking three months - this is not your P > > father's (or grandfather's) economy.  Be prepared (if you are looking) for aL > > period of unemployment, and all the emotional baggage that goes with it. > K > Mine is coming up to its first anniversary. It doesn't help being 56 - in A > the UK at least nobody is interested in IT staff over about 40.   D As a fellow 56'er I can sure relate to that! I'm past a year now andB have started lying about my experience - downward - so I don't get rejected out-of-hand.    > D > At least I can earn money whitewater raft-guiding, canoe and kayakL > instructing, driving, rigging exhibition lighting. It's quite surprised meI > how many of my hobbies can become employment. It's just a shame that myt+ > employment seems to have become my hobby.r  E It's even worse for me, my hobbies are travel and film watching and I . can't figure out a way to capitalize on those.   Raise a pint for me tonight.   Dona -- r   Have VMS, Will TravelR Wire paladin, San Franciscoi   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:42:42 +0100G9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>i! Subject: Re: looking for VMS worke? Message-ID: <46d4aae14b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>d  * In message <3E972141.9FC7EF33@pacbell.net>2           Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote:   >  >  > Alan Adams wrote:, > >  > <snip>Q > > > Currently, the average job search is taking three months - this is not your R > > > father's (or grandfather's) economy.  Be prepared (if you are looking) for aN > > > period of unemployment, and all the emotional baggage that goes with it. > > M > > Mine is coming up to its first anniversary. It doesn't help being 56 - inpC > > the UK at least nobody is interested in IT staff over about 40.s > F > As a fellow 56'er I can sure relate to that! I'm past a year now andD > have started lying about my experience - downward - so I don't get > rejected out-of-hand.  >  > > F > > At least I can earn money whitewater raft-guiding, canoe and kayakN > > instructing, driving, rigging exhibition lighting. It's quite surprised meK > > how many of my hobbies can become employment. It's just a shame that myU- > > employment seems to have become my hobby.s > G > It's even worse for me, my hobbies are travel and film watching and I 0 > can't figure out a way to capitalize on those.  3 Offer to be a reviewer at the Cannes film festival?n   >  > Raise a pint for me tonight.   Surely.p   >  > Don    Alan   -- h
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:57:02 +0100g" From: "Rolona" <nospam@nospam.com>! Subject: Re: looking for VMS work 9 Message-ID: <gTGla.93$nU1.1@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>    My opinion for what its worth.  A Soon, not sure when, old professionals will be in serious demand.   F There has been a few years of managing important system using cheaper,J younger amateurs. If the companies that have adopted this attitude fail toE make a serious investment in new technology and migrate their systemsrJ professionally (which is unlikely because they have cut the corners in the8 first place) we will start to see what I call DISASTERS.  I The amateurs will have to walk out because they simply don't know what to  do.s  K The recovery of these systems will be dependant on the older professionals.<  H There are a lot of details that support this theory and I don't have theL time or the will to give my eyes to the ungrateful blind. Only that my price$ will be, and yours should be, ...... ....   ...r SILLY!4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message% news:3E972141.9FC7EF33@pacbell.net...s >  >h > Alan Adams wrote:i > >b > <snip>L > > > Currently, the average job search is taking three months - this is not yourL > > > father's (or grandfather's) economy.  Be prepared (if you are looking) for aoJ > > > period of unemployment, and all the emotional baggage that goes with it.  > >IJ > > Mine is coming up to its first anniversary. It doesn't help being 56 - inC > > the UK at least nobody is interested in IT staff over about 40.m >nF > As a fellow 56'er I can sure relate to that! I'm past a year now andD > have started lying about my experience - downward - so I don't get > rejected out-of-hand.l >  > >aF > > At least I can earn money whitewater raft-guiding, canoe and kayakK > > instructing, driving, rigging exhibition lighting. It's quite surprisedh meK > > how many of my hobbies can become employment. It's just a shame that my-- > > employment seems to have become my hobby.p >0G > It's even worse for me, my hobbies are travel and film watching and In0 > can't figure out a way to capitalize on those. >- > Raise a pint for me tonight. >r > Don. > -- >e > Have VMS, Will Travel" > Wire paladin, San Francisco  >t > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:34:21 +0100d9 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1>a! Subject: Re: looking for VMS work>3 Message-ID: <59icnUdjTbZt3wqjXTWcow@brightview.com>e  F "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message9 news:444a8be14b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...e4 > In message <2PmcnXLRv7FPVwujXTWcog@brightview.com>F >           "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote: >y > >eJ > > "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message= > > news:38bd76e14b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...hL > > > p.s. Anyone interested in a very experienced VMS system manager in the > > > Midlands?c > >,H > > Prepared to relocate to Berkshire?   Prepared to go on call?  We may have1 > > a vacancy coming up in the next month or two.n >cL > I'd prefer not to relocate, but some parts of Berkshire are reachable from8 > Northampton. I'd be interested in details as and when.  I Not really sure about how the posts are advertised, but I think it has to:J be done internally first of all, and possibly for X amount of time, before  it can be advertised externally.  J As soon as we've got confirmation of retaining the head count, and as soon> as it can be "advertised" externally, I'll email you directly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:32:57 -0500@& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> Subject: Memory for Alpha 800 / Message-ID: <v9er6ecumt1l51@corp.supernews.com>   G Got an Alpha 800/333 at work from another group.  Opened the lid and noeJ memory.  As far as I can tell, its 168-pin, 3.3v EDO and ECC DIMM.  Need 48 at a time to fill a bank.  There are 2 banks in the 800.  F Memory part # from SOC is:  PB8MA-A(C-G)  C-G=64MB to 1GB in the usual increments.s  J Anyone know if this memory is commonly available?  A google search came upK with a number of hits, most w/DEC or Compaq probably because of the part #.s  : Might the ECC take it out of the commonly available realm? --1 A mind is like a parachute, works best when open,i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:51:18 GMTi4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)! Subject: Re: Memory for Alpha 800t> Message-ID: <piKla.97799$ug3.180618@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  X In article <v9er6ecumt1l51@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> writes:H >Got an Alpha 800/333 at work from another group.  Opened the lid and noK >memory.  As far as I can tell, its 168-pin, 3.3v EDO and ECC DIMM.  Need 4I9 >at a time to fill a bank.  There are 2 banks in the 800.d > G >Memory part # from SOC is:  PB8MA-A(C-G)  C-G=64MB to 1GB in the usuall >increments. >dK >Anyone know if this memory is commonly available?  A google search came upaL >with a number of hits, most w/DEC or Compaq probably because of the part #.  J Pyramid Technology in Maynard, MA ( http://www.pyramiddec.com/memory.htm ) lists this part at $USD330.00.  O I've dealt with this company before; at the time, they were helpful, and got myi part to me quickly.    >h; >Might the ECC take it out of the commonly available realm?h >--i2 >A mind is like a parachute, works best when open, >V >i  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:08:02 -0600c- From: Meredith Ryan <mryan@tbg.riogrande.com> - Subject: Need help pricing used VAX equipment ? Message-ID: <DCC5D4DA512CD411ACA600A0C9DECE0609F7DE2C@EXCHANGE>t  L I have been tasked with selling all of our old VAX equipment now that we areK no longer using it after migrating the data and app to a CHARON VAX system.hK Can anyone point me in the right direction to determine the actual value ofaI this stuff?  I have an essentially complete network including a VAX 4500anL and a VAX 4705a  - both rackmounted and configured for a cluster, a hardwareJ RAID system from Clariion ( 20 2gb drives and 10 4 gb drives for the box),J DEC server 500, and a 550 both completely equipped, and the list just goesK on and on.  I just don't know enough about the value or the hardware itselfp1 to determine if I am getting a fair price for it..+ Please let me know if anyone has any ideas.8 thanks    
 Meredith Ryano IS-Operations  The Bell Group (ph) 505.839.3237o (fax) 505.839.3555   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:16:33 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.comr1 Subject: Re: Need help pricing used VAX equipments1 Message-ID: <03041116163376@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>m  N > I have been tasked with selling all of our old VAX equipment now that we areM > no longer using it after migrating the data and app to a CHARON VAX system.hM > Can anyone point me in the right direction to determine the actual value oftK > this stuff?  I have an essentially complete network including a VAX 4500anN > and a VAX 4705a  - both rackmounted and configured for a cluster, a hardwareL > RAID system from Clariion ( 20 2gb drives and 10 4 gb drives for the box),L > DEC server 500, and a 550 both completely equipped, and the list just goesM > on and on.  I just don't know enough about the value or the hardware itselfa3 > to determine if I am getting a fair price for it. 4 > Please let me know if anyone has any ideas. thanks  3 Reference the following vendors for online pricing:n   island computere http://www.hpaq.net/   CPU optionst http://www.cpuoptions.com/   Great Lakes Computersa http://www.glcomp.com/  1 Try e-bay, set a minimum price and see who bites.-  O You will get an idea of what the market value is - not what you will be able ton get for it.   > Try to barter the equipment for things you would like to have.   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator. Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkO 972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:42:44 +0100i" From: "Rolona" <nospam@nospam.com>1 Subject: Re: Need help pricing used VAX equipmenth: Message-ID: <fTGla.92$nU1.37@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>  J Fortunately or unfortunately, the value is what someone is prepared to payC for it. Essentially it depends on the requirement and availability.f  J A rackmounted VAX 4705a with rais (however implemented ), including disks,9 could be worth from $200 to $4000 depending on the buyer.i  L If you try to sell it for $200 on ebay, you will probably get someone to buy; it quickly and possibly even raise the price in an auction.i  K If you put the system up for $4000 and you dont have a buyer, you will wait02 until the value is almost zero before you sell it.   Market forces.    : "Meredith Ryan" <mryan@tbg.riogrande.com> wrote in message9 news:DCC5D4DA512CD411ACA600A0C9DECE0609F7DE2C@EXCHANGE...eJ > I have been tasked with selling all of our old VAX equipment now that we are1E > no longer using it after migrating the data and app to a CHARON VAX5 system.xJ > Can anyone point me in the right direction to determine the actual value ofK > this stuff?  I have an essentially complete network including a VAX 4500aeE > and a VAX 4705a  - both rackmounted and configured for a cluster, a  hardwareL > RAID system from Clariion ( 20 2gb drives and 10 4 gb drives for the box),L > DEC server 500, and a 550 both completely equipped, and the list just goesF > on and on.  I just don't know enough about the value or the hardware itself3 > to determine if I am getting a fair price for it."- > Please let me know if anyone has any ideas.l > thanks >h >y > Meredith Ryan  > IS-Operationse > The Bell Group > (ph) 505.839.3237e > (fax) 505.839.3555 >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:57:26 GMTI( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>> Subject: Re: OT: CSABA is not aborigine, he is hungarian ! :-O, Message-ID: <3E971E0D.8000804@spammotel.com>   HARANGOZO CSABA wrote:
 > 		Hi Fabio,n >  > 9 >>PS: I was in Budapest in 2000 ! I loved that city ! :-)e >  > = > 	Nice city, long history. It is getting expensive though...   5 Thank gawd the krte plinka is still affordable. :-)k   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 17:43:20 -0700$ From: bdhobbs18@acm.org (Bill Hobbs) Subject: OT: google filter= Message-ID: <74ca5032.0304111643.5fbd7f34@posting.google.com>a  E I tried to start the "looking for VMS work" thread from Google at the E end of March, but it didn't show up on Google or my ISP's news feed. rC I posted again on Google at the beginning of April and had the postoE e-mailed to me - the e-mail showed up, but nothing else.  I commented 5 to Google about the post not showing up and got this:f  # >>From: B Hobbs <bdhobbs18@acm.org>e# >>Subject: can't start a new threadm& >>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:13:50 -0800 >>@ >>I wrote the following message and submitted it, but it has not@ >>appeared ten hours later.  I tried to post a similar message a@ >>couple of days ago and didn't see it, but I did not request an> >>e-mail copy.  I've successfully posted to an existing threadD >>recently, but this is the first time in a while that I've tried toD >>start a thread - could that have something to do with the problem?7 >>I'm using Mozilla 1.2.1, Mac OS 9.2.2, Earthlink DSL.e > :   <snipped post <1ft839u.xpdc7k8pbhpgN%bill@example.net> > >  >Hi B, >-8 >The post was reject by the posting server as off-topic. >  >Sincerely,m >" >The Google Groups Teamc    This generated another exchange:  # >>From: B Hobbs <bdhobbs18@acm.org>Q2 >>Subject: Re: [#1977031] can't start a new thread& >>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:31:08 -0800 >>F >>Thank you for actually reading my query, researching the difficulty,* >>and responding.  I have a few questions: >>8 >>Is this something done by a person or is it automated?5 >>Is this only at Google groups or is it Usenet wide? ; >>Does this apply only to new threads or also to followups?e( >>Where can I find out this information? >i >Hi B, >s< >No, the filters are Google Groups set by the posting server >administrators. >  >Sincerely,e >n >The Google Groups Teaml  B I finally posted via my news reader and ISP, but I see that GoogleE still does not show the post ... though it may be because of my bogusoE from address - sorry about that, I forgot that I had set it like thato= and this is the first time I posted from my news reader.  Thet- followups are there, but not my initial post: R <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=BXNGbqUac5Ty%40eisner.encompasserve.org>.  B Anyway, I thought I would let y'all know that, to serve us better,B posts to our *unmoderated* newsgroup are *filtered* by Google.  So# much for a complete usenet archive.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:15:49 GMTd4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) Subject: Re: OT: google filter- Message-ID: <9NJla.180514$Zo.34519@sccrnsc03>t  d In article <74ca5032.0304111643.5fbd7f34@posting.google.com>, bdhobbs18@acm.org (Bill Hobbs) writes:F >I tried to start the "looking for VMS work" thread from Google at theF >end of March, but it didn't show up on Google or my ISP's news feed. D >I posted again on Google at the beginning of April and had the postF >e-mailed to me - the e-mail showed up, but nothing else.  I commented6 >to Google about the post not showing up and got this: <snip> >>Hi B,i >>9 >>The post was reject by the posting server as off-topic.o >> >>Sincerely, >> >>The Google Groups Team <snip>C >I finally posted via my news reader and ISP, but I see that Google,F >still does not show the post ... though it may be because of my bogusF >from address - sorry about that, I forgot that I had set it like that> >and this is the first time I posted from my news reader.  The. >followups are there, but not my initial post:S ><http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=BXNGbqUac5Ty%40eisner.encompasserve.org>.t >eC >Anyway, I thought I would let y'all know that, to serve us better,FC >posts to our *unmoderated* newsgroup are *filtered* by Google.  So-$ >much for a complete usenet archive.  I Hmm...I have a "munged" From: address, but a quick check of Google for myrK recent posts (including the ones in the "looking for VMS work" thread) showu that they are in the archive.s  J A number of other posts from you have shown up at the archive, but not the one(s) you have mentioned.  K I can't draw any "reasonable" conclusions from this "data", but I wonder ifwM your post(s) were just "lost", and the response from Google Groups was a lamefD attempt to "cover up".	:-)  Re-post them, and see what happens.	:-)   A _________________________________________________________________c0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:54:55 -0400e From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX? Message-ID: <OF11C9F700.B03C94F6-ON85256D05.00674C23@metso.com>e  ! Mount SAN-based shadowset on VAX1m  , %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, JAM100 mounted on _DSA100:C %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$1$DGA200: (ALPHA1) is a member of the shadow set5C %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$1$DGA100: (ALPHA2) is a member of the shadow set   I Both ALPHA1 and ALPHA2 are connected via FibreChannel to these to drives.sH Either can MSPC serve either to VAX1 (All three are in an FDDI cluster).  B 1.  Is it goodness or not that one volume is MSCP-served from each AlphaServer?  I 2.  If ALPHA1 is shut down, will $1$DGA100 automagically become served byn ALPHA2?y  = 3.  a) Is there any way to control which AS does the serving?l 3.  b) Should I care?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:20:05 -05002 From: brandon@dalsemi.comn: Subject: Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX1 Message-ID: <03041114200578@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>n  D > 1.  Is it goodness or not that one volume is MSCP-served from each > AlphaServer?   It is fine.t  K > 2.  If ALPHA1 is shut down, will $1$DGA100 automagically become served byy	 > ALPHA2?    Yes.  ? > 3.  a) Is there any way to control which AS does the serving?l   Yes.   > 3.  b) Should I care?    No.a     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratord Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkd 972.371.4003 fxn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:01:53 GMTm/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) : Subject: Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX- Message-ID: <0PetkPUMMNXf@cuebid.zko.dec.com>-   norm.raphael@metso.com writes:? > 3.  a) Is there any way to control which AS does the serving?l     See help set preferred_pathl   -- f  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:49:01 -0400e From: norm.raphael@metso.com: Subject: Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAX? Message-ID: <OF2F6EA1B4.6B6CEEB8-ON85256D05.0072438E@metso.com>o  2 Multi-Path is OFF.  Does that effect that command?  G From:  brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) on 04/11/2003 04:01 PMa  ; Please respond to brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)y   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:-  = Subject:    Re: Questions on MSPC serving FC SAN disks to VAXg     norm.raphael@metso.com writes:? > 3.  a) Is there any way to control which AS does the serving?0     See help set preferred_path<   --  / Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group  brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:39:53 GMTe' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> + Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP + Message-ID: <3E9719F9.C3F6F1B8@pacbell.net>f   Carl Perkins wrote:o > - > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes...m <snip> > }mD > }Well then why do I continually get such messages in my queue? The > I > Beats me. Note that I said "normally". An anoyingly large percentage ofa+ > software is not in the "normal" category.  > I > }usernames are not defined as VMS users, or as VMS mail-specific users. J > }Are you saying this is a bug in TCPIP Services? It seems like something >  > It could be. > C > You wouldn't happen to be including "disusered" and/or "dimailed"wB > accounts  in the "not defined as VMS users" category, would you?C > The SMTP server's user verification may not check the flags, just C > the existance of the account in the SYSUAF file. I have seen thisp > prarticular problem before.d  G The users have been completely removed from SYSUAF, or never existed toi begin with!d   <snip> > E > On the other hand, go over your SMTP configuration very carefully -uA > especially the anti-relaying related configuration (I don't useeB > TCPIP Services, so I don't know how this is configured; MultinetD > uses a file with various rules for rejecting messages, and a smallE > mistake could possible lead to a situation that acts something likeh > my example below).  % In the SMTP.CONFIG file I only have :-0 my local LAN machines defined as "Good-Clients". A few "Bad-Clients"b Relay-Zones: mydomain  RBLs: mail-abuse.org  . all the rest of the options are disabled i.e.: ! Relay-Based-On-Mx: TRUE2E ! Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: TRUE (Rejects good emailers too much)w# ! Accept-Unqualified-Senders:  TRUEI# ! Accept-Unresolvable-Domains: TRUEl> ! Reject-Mail-From: *.xyz.com, known.spammer@*, *the_internet*) ! Accept-Mail-From: *@notabadguy.xyz.com,  the_internet_news@somehwere.comv ! SPAM-Action: OPCOM ! Security: SECURE   > > > Note that there are cases where it is hard to detect invalidD > addresses - like a system that is a mail hub which relays messagesE > to other mail servers. It often doesn't know what the valid accountpG > names are on the end system(s), it just knows to forward messages fortC > "*@foo.com" to "*@blah.foo.com". In such a case, a spoofed returnAD > address could casue a problem like this. Send to "invalid@foo.com"G > which is accepted by the server "bar.com" (since, for example, the MXrE > record for "foo.com" is "bar.com"). Then "bar.com" tries to send it G > on to "invalid@blah.foo.com" where it turns out that there is no suchbC > username - now "bar.com" is stuck returning the message which, as5H > it turns out, has the forged return address of "also_invalid@bar.com".L > Instant problem like yours. (This is obviously not an ideal configuration.H > It turns out that lots of sub-optimal configurations are in use in the/ > real world. I suspect you are not surprised.)c > 
 > --- Carl  # I appreciate your responses, Carl. wH I think the bottom line for me is HP's SMTP needs a major rewrite. It isG the only TCPIP service that needs almost daily tending. It often breaksuG leaving lots of mail sitting in files until I delete the "bad mail" and-A do an analyze mail/repair. The SMTP.CONFIG file is also tricky topA understand and, as detailed by this thread, is lacking sufficientg options to control SPAM.  C While my VMS machine was down last month, I needed a temporary mailsC server that would run on my NT box and found a free Java based mailbB service called James. It's part of the Open Source Jakarta projectH (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mission.html). It worked pretty well andD was fairly easy to understand. During the 4 weeks I used it, it hungH only once do to a "bad" email and never had any problems rejecting usersF I hadn't defined. While I hate to trash a former Digital product, if IB can't figure out a way to deal with these SMTP problems, I may try( running this on my VMS machine instead.    -- r   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco-   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:38:56 -0300u0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPr/ Message-ID: <3E9727DD.ABD960B8@vl.videotron.ca>l   Carl Perkins wrote:.F > Why? The recipient must be specified before the body of the message.F > If it is a VMS SMTP server, why shouldn't it immediately look up theI > user (in the VMS specific way) to verify the validity of the addressee?   N I guess it could start the callable mail stuff immediatly and verify usernamesN and bounce them. However, this does have security implications since it allows7 someone to test for existance of a username on a node. u  J And there are probably some performance implications of initiating all theM varous links to the destination mailboxes. As well, when the SMTO server actsy, as a relay, it can't really check the names.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:36:02 GMTa' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> + Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPl+ Message-ID: <3E975155.3F202C13@pacbell.net>F   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Carl Perkins wrote:tH > > Why? The recipient must be specified before the body of the message.H > > If it is a VMS SMTP server, why shouldn't it immediately look up theK > > user (in the VMS specific way) to verify the validity of the addressee?l > P > I guess it could start the callable mail stuff immediatly and verify usernamesP > and bounce them. However, this does have security implications since it allows8 > someone to test for existance of a username on a node.  E They can already do that. It would just make for a faster turnaround.l   > L > And there are probably some performance implications of initiating all theO > varous links to the destination mailboxes. As well, when the SMTO server actsc. > as a relay, it can't really check the names.  E As was mentioned by Phillip, re. the use of set forward in VMS mail : A (Note that <username> does not have to exist as an account on theuD system, and also that it can be a more or less arbitrary string---in8 particular, it doesn't have to be a valid VMS username.   ' So why couldn't SMTP service do a quick  	mail> show forw/user=*/alloH during SMTP startup and use that list as a reference, rejecting all thatF do not appear under Username? Quick, easy and under the control of VMS. mail running on the same node SMTP is running.   --     Have VMS, Will Traveli Wire paladin, San Franciscoi   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:41:30 -0300o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPe/ Message-ID: <3E975FAC.98376878@vl.videotron.ca>n   Don Sykes wrote:$ >         mail> show forw/user=*/allJ > during SMTP startup and use that list as a reference, rejecting all thatH > do not appear under Username? Quick, easy and under the control of VMS0 > mail running on the same node SMTP is running.   Would fail for stuff such as:    "kitchen::chef"@chocolate.com3   or:@4 "kitchen::mrgate::"Chef.Pierre\""@smtp.chocolate.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:02:14 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com- Subject: RL0? Can someone tell me what it is? ? Message-ID: <OFDAD90134.D6132F4D-ON85256D05.00680F9D@metso.com>   D I've unearthed a removable Pack about 18 inches in diameter with one platter in it.  F It was DL0: A1 a system pack from spring of 1982.  The label says from
        DSCS8.a       Is this an RL01 pack?o       Is it from a PDP-8?        What was the capacity?      K (The case is grey with a blue handle with a gray "| d | i | g | i | t | a |t        l |"  logo on it."n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:21:55 +0100h* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>1 Subject: Re: RL0? Can someone tell me what it is?r5 Message-ID: <b77f8r$9mtal$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>a  ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in messagea9 news:OFDAD90134.D6132F4D-ON85256D05.00680F9D@metso.com...c > F > I've unearthed a removable Pack about 18 inches in diameter with one > platter in it. >nH > It was DL0: A1 a system pack from spring of 1982.  The label says from >        DSCS8.d >c >y >l > Is this an RL01 pack?  > H Sounds likely, pull the blue handle to release the bottom cover, put theI pack in the drive, turn the bottom cover upside down and put it on top ofr the pack when in the drive.h   >  >n > Is it from a PDP-8?t >dI Also used on PDP11's, had both Q-bus (RLV11) and Unibus (RL11) interfaces5	 available0   >m >p > What was the capacity? > % An amazing 5Mb... the RL02 was 10Mb !t     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/       ---h& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:19:23 GMT   From: Rob Brown <brown@gmcl.com>1 Subject: Re: RL0? Can someone tell me what it is?hL Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0304111612110.14784-100000@localhost.localdomain>  1 On Fri, 11 Apr 2003 norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:e   > F > I've unearthed a removable Pack about 18 inches in diameter with one > platter in it. > C > It was DL0: A1 a system pack from spring of 1982.  The label says  > from >        DSCS8.  > E > (The case is grey with a blue handle with a gray "| d | i | g | i |v > t | a | l |"  logo on it." > Is this an RL01 pack?f  D Probably an RL02.  All of the RL02s I saw had blue labels/handles.  E All of the RL01s I saw had grey labels/handles.  Just to make sure weeA are talking about the same thing:  The handle is in the middle.  (B Slide a thing on the handle sideways, then lift handle lever, pack pulls out of protective cover.   > Is it from a PDP-8?i  D I think PDP-8s were pretty rare by the time this stuff came out --- F RL01s 1978, RL02s 1980.  I don't know if there was a PDP-8 controller B for the RL drives.  They were common on PDP-11/34s and PDP-11/44s.   > What was the capacity?   RL01  10240 blocks = 5 MBf RL02  20480 blocks = 10 MB  > DSCS8 makes me think of the standalone bootable Disk Save and E Compress, but that doesn't take a whole RL.  One of the disks in the tB distribution might have had a label like that.  Is this a digital  label?     --    / Rob Brown                        brown@gmcl.comtA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!d6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)4                                  (780)437-3367 (FAX)1                                  http://gmcl.com/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:47:17 -0500e2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>% Subject: Re: Serial connection to VAXr/ Message-ID: <v9f6jcl9jja042@corp.supernews.com>f  ? "Thierry Dussuet" <thierry@squeeeez.no-ip.com> wrote in messagee* news:slrnb9duk1.k4.thierry@andro.family... > Hello! >oI > I've acquired 2 VAXen (1 VAXstation 3100 and 1 VAX 4000-300) and am nowcF > trying to install some OS on it (the goal would be OpenVMS - but for' > this I'd like to look at them first).eE > The VAXstation had a monitor with it, and thus worked quite nicely,aD > apart that to install something on it, I should have access to theI > serial console!  Same for the VAX 4000-300, since it has no other means   I It isn't necessary to use a serial console on a VAXstation; the graphical(L display (keyboard, mouse, monitor) will act as a console until OpenVMS bootsK to the point it starts Motif. It scrolls agonizingly slow and doesn't alloweI line editing other than DEL, but it DOES work. I've done this hundreds of  times, perhaps thousands.-  E > that I know (I don't know if there is an OS on the latter, though).cJ > Thus, I took a MMJ-to-MMJ cable and snapped one end away, and put a DB25B > end on it.  The pinouts should be OK, I checked this quite a few
 > times...F > Then, I plugged the cable in (into the "printer" port and the serialH > port), switched the switch on the back of the VAXstation and started a > terminal on the other end.  E I'm confuser by this - why into the "printer" port? Also, how did youtF connect to the "printer" port AND the "serial" port? Can you provide aL simple character art drawing? Is this the "printer" port on the 3100 and the serial port on the PC?  ) > I set it to 9600 8N1, protocol xon/xoffiJ > (because IIRC, the communication with the VAX is directed with DTR?) and. > full of tension, switched the VAXstation on.  L DEC equipment uses XON/XOFF, not DTR. DTR is hardware flow-control, XON/XOFFI is in-band software flow control (uses DC1 and DC3 characters in the datah stream).   > But nothing happened! ImH > tried some times more, tried different terminals (cu, tip, minicom andH > kermit are the ones I've tried), and on the end, I tried to connect toE > the VAX 4000-300, but it stays the same. It's not possible to get an > serial connection...  K It sounds like you are using a PC with various terminal emulators to try to3J connect to the VAXes. This is doable, but you do not use the parallel portJ on the PC or the DB25 on the VAXstation to do this. You will use a DEC MMJI connector on one end, plug into the VAXstation console port (com1) and to J the serial port on the PC (com1 or com2, or whatever is setup on your PC).  F > Something weird, too, is that I have the feeling that the VAXstationE > will only finish booting to the ">>>"-prompt when I plug in a loosemD > MMJ-cable into the serial port.  With loose I mean a MMJ-cable not > connected to anywhere.  L This is NOT right; it is not necessary to plug a terminal in to a VAXstationJ for it to boot if the boot settings are set to BOOT. The VAXstation cannotK tell if a console is plugged in or not. A VAXstation can be set to halt (at!J the console prompt), or to boot on power on. It is up to the administrator? to make these decisions. The same issues apply to the 4000-300.a  C > Does somebody know where the problem could be?  Or has any hints?u >n! > I would appreciate very much...t >.	 > Thierry    My suggestions -  J 1) download, beg, or buy documentation for the systems. This will show you the ports for the console, etc.hI 2) borrow or purchase a known working serial cable to use between your PCn and the VAXes.F 3) consider purchasing a DEC terminal. You can get them on eBay pretty< cheap - $20-$100, with keyboard. PC keyboards will not work.K 4) if you need additional help, please post the exact MODEL NUMBER for yourwK systems. This will be something like KA41..., KA42..., etc. This will allow-D us to locate the correct manual and copy pages for you to reference.  
 Good luck, Stuart Johnson   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:48:15 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: So much for Opteron 32bit compatibility ...2 Message-ID: <U6ednbI4BemNtwqjXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  L "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in message& news:3e9492a9_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >n% > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"y' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 7 > wrote in message news:3E9443DF.902@nospamn.sun.com...  > >s > >t > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:) > > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"u) > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > > > wrote in message news:3E91646C.50502@nospamn.sun.com...o > > >a > >> > > > >rG > > > Hmmm.  Sparc sucks.  Supposedly Opteron won't.  Both are 64-bits.  > > >l > >i2 > > Humm and your first conjecture is one that you0 > > have never managed to sucessfully justify so2 > > why not drop it, you have hung yourself out to2 > > dry so many times on this point alone that its' > > embarassing if not a trifle boring.  > >> > H > Actually, all Sun has done lately is to pioneer new ways to break SpecB > benchmarks.  Ol' sparc'y is a trailing edge design with mediocre > performance.  E Perhaps you should actually acquaint yourself with recent SPARC-basedtI benchmarks (and those of the rest of the competition) before presuming tod& comment upon its relative performance.  H For example, while it trails PA8700+ somewhat in SPECint performance, itJ leads it sufficiently in SPECfp performance to suggest that it would stillI lead it even without Sun's recent 'creative' compiler optimizations.  AndlH while its SPECfp_rate scores can't match EV7's or Itanic2's, they exceedL both POWER4's and PA-RISC's (and scale more linearly than Itanic's and aboutH as linearly as EV7's).  Its SPECint_rate scores aren't bad either (about% equal to PA-RISC's at 64 processors).t  G And, of course, with a peak power consumption of 53 Watts it makes bothe7 Itanic2 and EV7 look like real pigs in that department.a   >i > > @ > > Just as a hint, the multi-core Power 4 isn't a CMT processor< > > and while some P4's support hyperthreading it also isn't > > what we are implimenting.- > >- >-J > The research indicates Sun respin of old designs in newer processes, and > nothing really *new*  I Guess you missed the 'Niagara' development based on the Afara technology.dI But the apparent inadequacy of your own research skills doesn't make thate surprising.   4  - or anything that even comes close to matching the0 > performance of almost *any* contemporary chip.  J As I said above, perhaps you'd be better advised to acquaint yourself withK such issues before spewing such garbage:  it really doesn't reflect well onrC you.  While you're at it, if you want to see *really* trailing-edgeyI performance from a contemporary chip you might take a look at MIPS (whichSH your employer still seems to be selling fairly effectively in its Tandem offerings).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 13:37:56 -0700! From: wilmesr@hotmail.com (Rusty) R Subject: starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes= Message-ID: <f0d7bf28.0304111237.6fc8f07d@posting.google.com>    Hi,r  ? I have a batch job that runs on an Openvms 7.1-2 UCX 5.0a eco 3l machine that basically...t  6 a) creates a bunch of text files in a single directory7 b) ftp's them to a single windows 2k SQL server folder., c) waits about 4 hours e  d) creates some more text files , e) ftps them to the SQL server (same folder)  A After step B, we run a .bat file on the SQL server that takes the C first group of text files and stuffs them into SQL.  I'd like to bec; able to start this bat file from the vms host after the ftpf successfully completes.d  A After step E we kick off a sql agent job that processes the filesO created in step d.  > The windows server doesn't have the telnet server installed.    9 Any tips (or which fm to r) would be greatly appreciated.e   Rustyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:43:17 -0500e From: brandon@dalsemi.com V Subject: Re: starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes1 Message-ID: <03041115431737@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   = > > Any tips (or which fm to r) would be greatly appreciated.- > P > Use RSH or REXEC after the completion of the FTP to invoke a batch file on the > remote side.   > - > $ rsh remote-node /user=* /pass=* "command"K >  > $ help rsh > $ help rexec  P That is assuming that RSH service is installed and started on the remote client.   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkf 972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:42:01 -0500h From: brandon@dalsemi.comdV Subject: Re: starting batch job on windows machine when process on vms alpha completes1 Message-ID: <03041115420194@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>v  ; > Any tips (or which fm to r) would be greatly appreciated.t  N Use RSH or REXEC after the completion of the FTP to invoke a batch file on the remote side.    + $ rsh remote-node /user=* /pass=* "command"t  
 $ help rsh $ help rexec     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorr Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkC 972.371.4003 fxh   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 20:56:17 -0700$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth)' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS_= Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0304111956.77b8aab1@posting.google.com>"   Dave:a  C 1) HSG controllers do *not* support anything but disk drives.  Stop-B thinking of them like they are HSJ controllers (or, heaven forbid, HSCs).  C 2) As other folks have mentioned, you will need a SCSI-to-fc bridgegC like the Modular Data Router or NSR (both from HP) to attach a tapebB library to a SAN fabric.  Some of the bigger, newer tape librariesC come with that functionality built-in so you can run fiber directly  into the library.e  ? Email me directly if you are still unclear on the tape-on-a-SAN  concept.   Thanks,n  
 -Scott :^)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:45:26 GMTeF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)# Subject: RE: VAX 4000/100 or is it?t0 Message-ID: <WaDla.705$lK5.113@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELOGPAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:d  E >running at 4.5GHz.  Now VAX is a much cleaner architecture than x86,l  > From the point of view of the programmer, I agree that the VAX: architecture is a lot better than the X86, though it isn'tB perfect (I don't know anybody who ever used the EOD$ instructions,2 but they were removed from later implementations).  < From the point of view of the people having to implement the: machine in logic, the VAX had a few shortcommings.  One of9 the more serious was the variable length instruction set. 6 There were some other factors which made upgrading the" processors something of a problem.  8 Certainly a much faster VAX could be built today because7 of the improvements in the semiconductor processes, andr9 a very much faster PDP-11 could be built as well: but I'mn; not sure how many people would really buy them.  The PDP-11r= would be a lot better from a programming standpoint than many > of the 16 bit processors being used for embedded applications,; but the existing processors are so heavily engrained in thev; industry that I don't think anyone would switch.  There area= similar problems with making new VAXes.  The money and efforte> would be better put into migrating to an Alpha (and from there= to newer platforms) than building a newer VAX.  It would costt9 less and be more effective to address any of the softwarew< problems, which is usually just that a product wasn't ported+ to Alpha, than to build new (old) hardware.r   -- u(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a05  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.1   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 15:28:25 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)G# Subject: Re: VAX 4000/100 or is it?o3 Message-ID: <qwr4LICVbIAq@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  U In article <3E96F255.3090102@ecubics.com>, emanuel stiebler <emu@ecubics.com> writes:a > Bob Koehler wrote:t >> In article <20030411011749.97442.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: >> i@ >>>Why not HP open the VAX architecture to other company develop( >>>some kind of 1U machine or blade ???? >  >I >>    It's too slow for anyone to be interested.  They'd have been betterdK >>    off trying to license the Alpha architecture.  But due to digital ande7 >>    Compaq mismanagment, there were almost no buyers.r > % > Why do you think it would be slow ?D  D    The complex instruction set of the VAX was designed to be optimalA    when memory was expensive and slow. RISC instruction sets haveeA    been more optimal since the price and speed of memory improvedm    in the late 80s.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:49:47 +0100 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>0. Subject: Re: VAX hardware support alternatives? Message-ID: <607aabe14b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   0 In message <03041112225277@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>$           brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:  L > > Simply get some spare machines. What usually fails on this machines are J > > drives (no need to buy DEC-Compaq-HP), or the power supplies. Easy to 
 > > exchange.  > Q > True.  Having a failover machine might be better bet.  Problem with spare partsSM > is they sit on the shelf and if not taken care of end up getting beat up or O > lost.  When you go to use them how do you know they will be in working order?l  L So run them in the cluster with the live machines. Fairly easy to see if anyH machine, live or spare goes bad, and you can then even look at automatic	 failover.t   >  > Try contacting SMS > http://www.sysmaint.com/ > I > Contact most any HP Reseller, like island computers, they may have somen
 > sources. >  >  http://www.hpaq.net/  >  > John Brandon > VMS Systems Administrator- > Dallas Semiconductor > john.brandon@dalsemi.com > 972.371.4172 wkb > 972.371.4003 fxo   -- u
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:08:42 -0500e From: brandon@dalsemi.com . Subject: Re: VAX hardware support alternatives1 Message-ID: <03041118084269@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>A  N > So run them in the cluster with the live machines. Fairly easy to see if anyJ > machine, live or spare goes bad, and you can then even look at automatic > failover.b  7 My thought exactly.  An excellent thought at that!  ;-)>  M I have had spare disk drives sit on the shelf for less than a year and when ImM put them into a Storage Array they failed within days.  These were fairly newrA drives and had been used for a few months before being retired...e  O As you say - add them to the existing cluster (or create a cluster) mixing bothy* online and spare machines in that cluster.  	 Concerns:o   1) License:e  B If you will be allowing users to access the spare servers then youN will need to have additional licenses.  If you will only allow users to accessD the spare servers in the event of a failure then no real issue here.  P Be aware of keeping the servers similiar - if the applications are CPU or server  specific you will have problems.   2) Failover:  M Set up an automated failover procedure.  No need to have a failover server if $ it is not automated - in my opinion.  J Create a heart-beat mechanism - using DECnet or TCP/IP.  This monitors the7 production server and detects and responds to failures.n  O Then test it!  Setup a schedule to do this.  First of the month, every quarter,eM but schedule it!  Too many times we find out our failover server did not workrO because we changed something on the production side - and oops, I did it again.r   3) DNS:   L Some DNS allow for load balancing and auto-check of existing service.  If #1G (licenses) are not an issue, load balance the production with the spareeL servers.  Weight the production server heavier than the spare - or you could< balance it out.  Have DNS serve only available IP addresses.   Use CLUSTER alias too.   4) Server characteristics:F You might want to keep the servers the same.  You could drop down to aM lower-end server; however this would run your environment at a reduced rate. w Sometimes this is acceptable.    5) Storage Array:s  O Make sure both production and spare servers have direct access to the storage. fO Does no good to have a production server with local disk attached and the spare ! is unable to gain access to them..       John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorc Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkn 972.371.4003 fxc   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Apr 2003 15:57:10 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S& Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences3 Message-ID: <1Eqjmojrca3A@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  Z In article <b76sde$bmqur$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  + > What on earth is a DDCMP board? A DSW-42?I( > Anyway, I was thinking of async DDCMP.  B    It's a board that sits on the UNIBUS, QBus, ..., and does DDCMPG    in an on-board processor.  Asynch does the DDCMP layers in the host.G  B    All our 11/780, DECSYSTEM-20, and most of our PDP-11 used to be@    interconnected with these things in the days before Ethernet.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:01:31 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>P Subject: Re: VMS Engineering quality standards, was: Re: Problem with VMS731_LAN@ Message-ID: <20030411220131.69907.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  > I think the HP OpenVMS engineering is not guilty about this ! A As the drivers are PCI based there are a lot of issues involved ! A PCI is an "open" architecture ... I remeber I dindt have problems @ with VAX hardware or Sun Microssytem S-BUS controllers ! Because- these hardwares were built almost in-house ! h  ? I asked Norm Lastovica (Oracle RDB) one year ago about problemseA in Oracle RDB Engineering - we had a lot of patches in one month ,C to solve a problem ! I believe their engineering is not guilty too.bE I think there is no staff enough to study OpenVMS Internals nowadays.uC A lot of people retiring from VMS Development... and the young guyso% or are MS or are Open"Linux"Source !     Regardss   FC  G --- Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:dC > In article <b75s8j$90$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharmani& > <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: > > & > > Pity V0200 & V0300 were such dogs.M > > I got badly bitten by another, vms73_sys05, last November, and have been gJ > > shy of patches since (vms731_sys02 was similar). vms73_sys05 is still I > > broken, still shipping, and still "to be installed by all customers".0 > > M > > They seem to be heading the way of Microsoft - can we get back to quality  > ?? > >  > L > I am glad that somebody else has commented on this, because the quality ofJ > work coming out of VMS Engineering, especially in regard to patches, has& > also been concerning me for a while. > H > I know that there have always been bad patch kits, but instead of themK > been the occasional oneoffs, they seem to have increased in frequency andcM > sometimes are really simple errors, for example: releasing a patch kit that I > replaces APB.EXE without running WRITEBOOT. Nice emulation of Microsoft- > quality. :-( > O > And just in case it's not obvious, one of the things that keeps VMS customersC+ > _as_ VMS customers is the quality of VMS.0 > , > What is happening within VMS Engineering ? >  > Simon. >  > -- vD > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       N > VMS advocate: One who makes a Mac advocate look like a beginner at advocacy.     =====. ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?= Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more1 http://tax.yahoo.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.201 ************************