1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 209       Contents:@ AlphaServers (and AlphaStations) readded to german HPQ pricelist Re: CHARON VAX Hobbyist kit 2 Does this describe VMS and all 'proprietary' Unix?% Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial % Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial % Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial % Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial  Re: Fiber channel question Re: Fiber channel question Re: Fiber channel question Re: Fiber channel question Re: Fiber channel question Re: Fiber channel question iSCSI Devices for OpenVMS 7.3-1 # Re: iSCSI Devices for OpenVMS 7.3-1 ' Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar ' Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar ' Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar I RE: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online P Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online Online ODS5: What is the downside?  Re: ODS5: What is the downside?  Re: ODS5: What is the downside?  Re: ODS5: What is the downside?  Re: ODS5: What is the downside? ' Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!! ' Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!! ' Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!! P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS The value of documentation  Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install question  Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install question  Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU)$ Re: Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU)$ Re: Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU) Re: What is the downside?  Re: What is the downside?  Re: What is the downside?  Re: What is the downside?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:44:48 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: AlphaServers (and AlphaStations) readded to german HPQ pricelist 2 Message-ID: <4b_ma.52900$UR.449584@news.chello.at>  L You might remember my posting <VPmga.210290$8L1.1935460@news.chello.at> fromN last March where I ranted about the removal of Alphaservers from the pricelistK at the german HPQ webserver http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx   M I just noticed very happily that (after some weeks) they are now back again !   N So far I haven't found out what happened (maybe the DECUS event last week...),< but I'd like to thank the persons who did the "right thing".  M Now you can find the standard/list price (incl. german 16% V.A.T.) in EURO at   C http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx?&art_id=DY-1280A-AA C http://www1.compaq.de/preisliste/pricelist.aspx?&art_id=DY-1280A-BA    Alphaserver GS1280  ' 	DY-1280A-AA	AS GS1280 M8 OVMs	77387.08   ) 	DY-1280A-BA	AS GS1280 M16 OVMS	197058.50    Thanks again   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:31:33 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: CHARON VAX Hobbyist kit' Message-ID: <3E9CCE95.14756540@fsi.net>    Bob Nestor wrote:  > ) > In article <3E9B6B09.20EF9D77@fsi.net>, 5 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  > K > > > > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 9 > > > > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 E > > > > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com  > > > H > > > I wasn't aware that I was asking you for a simh solution - free orL > > > otherwise.  As a former DEC Sr. Software Engineer supporting VAX alongK > > > with my association with NetBSD and basic knowledge of C I felt quite M > > > comfortable with the simh solution.  Obviously I was successful since I L > > > was able to get it running on multiple platforms.  As you pointed out,5 > > > most people here are looking for free solutions  > > H > > Well, I'd be careful there. I'd be so bold as to say that many folksE > > here are looking for a solution that's price-competitive with the > > > alternatives, before I'd lump so many under the heading of > > "free-loaders".  > >  > > > and I posted that a free > >  > > ...but unsupported...  > E > *sigh*  If you read the entire thread you'll notice that Mr. Quayle E > pointed out that most people here were looking for free solutions.    < ...and I countered that "most" is perhaps an over-statement.   > You 1 > are the first to label them as "free-loaders".    F Not quite. I didn't "label" anyone. In fact, I cautioned against doingH so as opposed to the implicit statements made in other posts. Some folksB disparage the seekers of "freebies". I do not, but I do not expectH "something for nothing", either. On the other hand, I'm not going to put? anyone's children through college on a single purchase, either.    > Freeware solutionsF > aren't for everyone, but there are places where they are appropiate.   Exactly my point.   E > Maybe I've assumed too much to think there are some users like that I > here, or maybe you and Mr. Quayle have made a mistake in assuming there  > are no users like that here.  D Never said that. (Feel free to quote me saying that, if you can find it.)  F > Yes, simh is free and unsupported - but it successfully runs the DEC= > system diagnostics. Unless one is worried that the emulated H > instructions might break down under excessive use the most likely need. > for support will be for typical VMS things.   ? More likely, something in, perhaps, a high-load condition, high G utilization, etc. that shows up a little known bug or some such. *THAT* ) is where concern is raised about support.   E Heck, I know folks that still don't trust ZIP and UNZIP to faithfully ( comp./decomp. data, as far as that goes.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:02:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Does this describe VMS and all 'proprietary' Unix? G Message-ID: <Ir_ma.40744$BQi.8817@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   $ If it is an apt analog, pity us all.  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8843  B "....Not a bad offer from Cupertino, but it doesn't seem to be theC kind of deal that's going to win back many buyers who've decided to  become Evil PC People.....  E It may be that Apple is fated to lose the education market in the end C just as it's lost every other market they once possessed. Educators F choosing to go with Apple or Dell ultimately have to decide whether toD use a system they might prefer - or to offer computer instruction onB the computers students are going to be using in their professionalE lives. This may keep Apple strong in the trade schools/colleges where D the computer's are typically used - such as graphics layout, design,E and the like -- but the vast majority of students don't go into these F fields, which leaves them Wintel users through and through. Similarly,@ if the claims Apple makes about its OS being more intuitive thanD Windows are true, one might expect to find more Macintosh systems inD elementary schools where basic computer principles are being taught.E But there seems little reason to use them elsewhere, especially in an A environment where educators must operate under increasingly tight = budgets to provide students with the best degree of education E possible. Under such restrictions Apple systems and the opportunities ? they offer are increasingly likely to fall into the category of 1 "Interesting and preferable - but not realistic."   A ..... Dell may be winning the education war long-term not because F Apple's offerings are bad but because the Apple itself is increasinglyF irrelevant to the mass education market. Companies reinvent themselves= periodically - it may be Apple's turn to either find a way to F definitively reverse its losses to the PC (almost all of which involveB adopting x86 hardware or a Windows operating system) or find other@ products and niches to exploit as the company's education market continues to shrink. "     7 Would you like a 'McJob' with your copy of Windows sir?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:36:30 +0200 ( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>. Subject: Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial5 Message-ID: <b7hn01$12pcq$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht6 news:857e9e41.0304141436.382fdd0@posting.google.com... > Dear Newsgroup,  > C > Warren has put up a new customer testimonial on the web site. The C > customer is  Fraport (Frankfurt, Germany airport).  Please take a G > moment to look at this.  I think it is excellent. Marc Courchesne and 8 > Guenter Krieble are the HP folks responsible for this. >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue   K A very encouraging article indeed. Thanks Sue. Now if Sybase would see this ) and would start competing with Oracle....    Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:05:30 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> . Subject: Re: Excellent new OpenVMS TestimonialH Message-ID: <eCZma.40371$BQi.18381@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message6 news:857e9e41.0304141436.382fdd0@posting.google.com... > Dear Newsgroup,  > C > Warren has put up a new customer testimonial on the web site. The C > customer is  Fraport (Frankfurt, Germany airport).  Please take a C > moment to look at this.  I think it is excellent. Marc Courchesne  and 8 > Guenter Krieble are the HP folks responsible for this. >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue     D Nice. Now condense it into an OpenVMS story suitable for a full page ad in InformationWeek.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 16:20:21 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) . Subject: Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0304151520.1c249b7d@posting.google.com>   V Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote in message news:<00A1E704.9BCB1344.8@decus.de>...E > AlphaServers over the next decade -- that's at least misleading :-)    Why would that be misleading?   I From http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ovms_businessview.html: E "We will continue to sell new AlphaServer systems as long as there is E significant customer demand, and our expectation is that this will be D at least several years beyond the introduction of our last EV7-basedF system in 2004, most likely extending out to the 2007-2008 timeframe."A  With the standard 5-year after last sale minimum support policy, D "this means support for the last AlphaServer models shipped would beB available into the 2012/2013 timeframe." ... "We will be doing newB functionality releases of OpenVMS for Alpha users at least throughC 2006.  Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance releases will 
 continue."  F The next decade, starting now, would end in 2013.  Based on the above,E an expectation of using Alphas until 2013 is not at all unreasonable.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:37:58 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>. Subject: Re: Excellent new OpenVMS Testimonial2 Message-ID: <gdWdnVUD9-t7OAGjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0304151520.1c249b7d@posting.google.com... 1 > Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote in message & news:<00A1E704.9BCB1344.8@decus.de>...G > > AlphaServers over the next decade -- that's at least misleading :-)  >  > Why would that be misleading?   1 I'll answer that below, after your helpful quote.    > K > From http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ovms_businessview.html: G > "We will continue to sell new AlphaServer systems as long as there is G > significant customer demand, and our expectation is that this will be F > at least several years beyond the introduction of our last EV7-basedH > system in 2004, most likely extending out to the 2007-2008 timeframe."C >  With the standard 5-year after last sale minimum support policy, F > "this means support for the last AlphaServer models shipped would beD > available into the 2012/2013 timeframe." ... "We will be doing newD > functionality releases of OpenVMS for Alpha users at least throughE > 2006.  Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance releases will  > continue." > H > The next decade, starting now, would end in 2013.  Based on the above,G > an expectation of using Alphas until 2013 is not at all unreasonable.   K Perhaps, if you're the trusting type.  However, the customer's presentation G makes it clear that their needs will be *expanding* throughout the next K decade, which means they'll be needing to purchase *additional* systems for G that period, not just until HP stops selling them 4 - 5 years from now.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:54:04 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net># Subject: Re: Fiber channel question 8 Message-ID: <hsoo9vs1f169q1h1vmkoaohhngs3k3v0gt@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:11:30 -0700, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  wrote:     >  >   devfsadm -C -r /a  > @ >and then it will work.  You can imagine some of the fun Solaris? >operators must have the first time they lose a system disk and ? >try to restore on a new disk - with a different FC address, so I >the backup of the original disk is not bootable on the replacement disk!  > J >The question is, do other OS's, and VMS in particular, have similar fiber" >channel "address" complexities?   >   F Well, to be fair, if my system disk is dua0, and I restore to dua1, orE dga1, etc, I may or may not successfully boot.  It all depends on how " the software startups are written.  F For example, if they reference SYS$SYSDEVICE (or other SYS$ logicals),@ I have a pretty good chance that it will boot okay.  But if theyF translate things for their own purposes to specific device names, I'll@ have problems when I try to boot.  In that case, I'll have to goC through all the startup files looking for the changed device names.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:15:20 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com # Subject: Re: Fiber channel question 1 Message-ID: <03041515152084@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   H > Well, to be fair, if my system disk is dua0, and I restore to dua1, orG > dga1, etc, I may or may not successfully boot.  It all depends on how $ > the software startups are written. > H > For example, if they reference SYS$SYSDEVICE (or other SYS$ logicals),B > I have a pretty good chance that it will boot okay.  But if theyH > translate things for their own purposes to specific device names, I'llB > have problems when I try to boot.  In that case, I'll have to goE > through all the startup files looking for the changed device names.   M Good point.  Something worth looking into.  I typically use logical names and  not hard-coded device names.     John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:12:08 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl># Subject: Re: Fiber channel question 2 Message-ID: <b7hp7d$nrh$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   David Mathog wrote: H > I just finished setting up a Sunfire V880 for a group here - the firstH > time I've had to mess with any kind of fiber channel machine.  SolarisH > requires a map between the disk's fiber channel address (which is sortO > of like a network address) and the /dev/dsk/* addresses which the rest of the A > OS see.  That is (and this sucks): make an exact replica of the I > boot disk, shutdown, replace the original with the clone, power on, and H > the reboot will fail.  That's because the clone has the address of theK > source channel disk (not the current FC disk) mapped to the disk devices. F > The Solaris fix for this requires a single user boot from some otherB > media (CDROM), mount the clone, run the oh so intuitive command: >  >    devfsadm -C -r /a > A > and then it will work.  You can imagine some of the fun Solaris @ > operators must have the first time they lose a system disk and@ > try to restore on a new disk - with a different FC address, soJ > the backup of the original disk is not bootable on the replacement disk! > K > The question is, do other OS's, and VMS in particular, have similar fiber # > channel "address" complexities?    > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu@ > Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech  P The WWID manager is something 'special', and only applicable to the SRM console.  M When you configure a 'disk' or LUN for VMS on a HSG80, you have to give it a  O identifier number. That is a number in the range from 1 to 9999. This is AFAIK  M unique to VMS. I have no idea how this works with 3rd party FC raid cabinets.   Q This number will turn up as disk number on VMS, so if you used identifier number  K 1234, you will see disk $1$dga1234 on VMS. No difficult translations here !   L We use the first two digits to identify the disk cabinet (HSG80 pair). That Q means that all disk number starting with 12 ($1$DGA1234, $1$dga1256 etc.) are in   the same cabinet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:41:20 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com # Subject: Re: Fiber channel question 1 Message-ID: <03041515412066@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   K > This number will turn up as disk number on VMS, so if you used identifier 	 > number  M > 1234, you will see disk $1$dga1234 on VMS. No difficult translations here !   L If you happen to dismount the device from the VMS server(s) and  reconfigureN that device at the controller level you will need to reboot all the servers to, see that device - if you keep the same ID #.   John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 18:58:34 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) # Subject: Re: Fiber channel question - Message-ID: <7VgYTo8C3zEA@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   2 In article <03041515412066@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>,     brandon@dalsemi.com writes:L >> This number will turn up as disk number on VMS, so if you used identifier
 >> number N >> 1234, you will see disk $1$dga1234 on VMS. No difficult translations here ! > N > If you happen to dismount the device from the VMS server(s) and  reconfigureP > that device at the controller level you will need to reboot all the servers to. > see that device - if you keep the same ID #. > A    I'm at home right now, so I can't test this, but I thought all & you'd need to do was a SYSMAN IO AUTO.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 20:47:04 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) # Subject: Re: Fiber channel question 3 Message-ID: <dwMv169VmRao@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <03041417033478@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes: - >> Bart Zorn [B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl] wrote: K >> Th SRM console of an Alphaserver has limited resources and can normally  I >> only hold the information of up to four FC disks. Those disks must be   > O > Is it four or is it one?  I thought it was one.  Correct me if I am wrong - I N > am not about to crash my server to find out! ;-)  Is it a new Firmware or is; > it the GS140?  It has been awhile since I WWID.  Curious.  >   7 	You can only quickset one device.  You have 4 slots so B 	Bart is right.  The slots in use and how to do more than one are 4 	all in the wwidmgr manual found on the firmware CD.   	Here is an example of a show:  . http://www.keltec.co.uk/whitepaper/Wwidmgr.pdf 	  	[Manual page 30]    P08>>>wwidmgr -show ev  @ wwid0 13 1 WWID:01000010:6000-1fe1-0000-04d0-0009-8170-1057-002b wwid1  wwid2  wwid3   7    ! here is wwid0 in use wwid1 through wwid3 are free.   < N1 50001fe1000074b1    ! N1 in use , N2 through N4 are free. N3 N4   P08>>>wwidmgr -show port [0] 1000-0000-c920-ca72  [1] 2006-0060-6900-0953  [2] 20fc-0060-6900-0953  [3] 5000-1fe1-0000-74a1  [4] 5000-1fe1-0000-74b1 (N1) [5] 5000-1fe1-0000-74c2  [6] 5000-1fe1-0000-74b2   - After the -quickset, one device is reachable. , The ev display shows one disk wwid stored in, the non-volatile ev wwid0, and one port path$ is stored in the non-volatile ev N1.  ? 	The examples that follow show how to use set port and set wwid ? 	to make more than one device available from console, see pages  	31-33.   H > With a properly configured SAN you have four access paths to the disk.   	Using which hardware?  ;')   4 > Two controllers (HSG80 redundant/multi-path pair):   	Oh, that hardware!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:09:28 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd-@-alum-mit-edu-nospam>( Subject: iSCSI Devices for OpenVMS 7.3-11 Message-ID: <INYma.559$L16.39758@news.uswest.net>   ) Does OpenVMS 7.3-1 support iSCSI devices?    TIA,
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:24:12 GMT ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> , Subject: Re: iSCSI Devices for OpenVMS 7.3-1= Message-ID: <g93na.28771$D31.4113728@news1.news.adelphia.net>    Michael D. Ober wrote:+ > Does OpenVMS 7.3-1 support iSCSI devices?   1 Presently there is no support for iSCSI directly.   I With a little work and a SMOP the user mode Intel iSCSI test programs on  G Sourceforge.net will compile and link on OpenVMS.  I have not had time   to do more with them.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:16:04 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar' Message-ID: <3E9CCAF4.2CF02C4E@fsi.net>    Rob Lyons wrote: > [snip]< > You can't expect HP to give away the Alpha OS on the host,  5 Well, technically, yes I can. Think: double taxation.   F As a compromise, perhaps a limited OpenVMS-ALPHA license would be more8 fair, something that only runs as a dedicated appliance.  E Most folks don't hack around the way I do, so many don't know how the F stand-alone environment of the OpenVMS-Alpha (and VAX, really) boot-CDH works. Perhaps, instead of running SA_STARTUP.COM, it ran something thatB does a full CONFIG, then enters the Charon-VAX environment, so theH underlying OpenVMS-Alpha is not running in an interactive mode, and goes< immediately into a shutdown procedure when Charon-VAX exits.  8 > just because there may be a VAX version of VMS running? > at an upper layer. Actually, one economy available is to have = > the host Alpha perform backup of the VAX disks or container 4 > files, which directly uses that copy of Alpha-VMS.  D That could be of some use, I grant you. I'd have to question whetherA BACKUP's aggressive nature would in any way endanger or otherwise * negatively impact the Charon-VAX instance.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:17:01 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar' Message-ID: <3E9CCB2D.2AB5D5B0@fsi.net>    Dave Weatherall wrote: > 7 > On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 05:09:43 UTC, "Barry Treahy, Jr."  > <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote: >  > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >  > > >"Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:  > > >  > > > M > > >>>Does an emulated VAX running on a licensed VMS system on an Alpha need F > > >>>an OpenVMS-VAX base license? (I.e., twice license the expense?) > > >>> E > > >>>...or is that included in/by the underlying OpenVMS-Alpha base  > > >>>license?  > > >>>  > > >>> F > > >>Someone who already has a VAX, and is migrating to CHARON-VAX onI > > >>Alpha, can transfer all their VAX licenses to CHARON-VAX for $1000.  > > >> > > >> > > >>K > > >Remember also that the VMS base license stays with the machine (VAX or # > > >Alpha) - it does not transfer.  > > >  > > > K > > Not true, for the $1000 you can transfer VMS and for another $1000, you @ > > can transfer ALL layered products, compliments of Compaq/HP. > > 	 > > Barry  > G > Seeing as VAXen are no longer being manufactured, isn't it about time H > this was dropped or made  next-to-zero cost? i.e. VAX to VAX - not VAX > to Alpha.   2 I'll second that. (D'ya ever notice my sig...? ;-)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:21:44 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: Need to buy 8 x VAX 4000 or similar& Message-ID: <3E9CCC48.C6EDDC6@fsi.net>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > " > >Is this specific to Charon-VAX? > > 8 > >The VAX is then sold/discarded without a VMS license? > >  > >  > >  > [Nonsense snipped.]  > , > Yes, here is the link [Nonsense snipped.]: > D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html  G Well, that answers the first question (the answer is, "yes", though the * dollar amounts are, well, not surprising).  F Can anyone offer anything to address the second? (Precede replies with </sarcasm>, please.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:29:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> R Subject: RE: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & OnlineT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF403FB5C7F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Peter,  G Thanks for the tip .. How does the attached look to your reader client?    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      > -----Original Message-----F > From: Peter Weaver [mailto:WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca]=20 > Sent: April 7, 2003 1:37 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS=20  > Software Product & Online  >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >...= > > While this may change in the future, I am currently stuck  > with sending. > > "plain text" emails via my Outback client. > >  > >... >=204 > Kerry, to make your posts easier to read try this; >     In Outlook >     Click on Tools >     Click on Options$ >     Click on the Preferences panel >     Click on E-Mail Options  >=20< > Under "On replies and forwards" set "When replying to a=20A > message" to "Prefix each line of the original message." Then=20 7 > make sure ">" is in the "Prefix each line with:" box.  >=20@ > Your message will still be plain text and you will still be=20< > using Outlook, but it would make us readers a lot happier. >=20 > -- > Peter Weaver! > Weaver Consulting Services Inc. + > Serving Southern Ontario/Western New York  >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:08:58 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS Software Product & Online Online / Message-ID: <3E9CBB39.E10BBA27@vl.videotron.ca>    "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Peter, > I > Thanks for the tip .. How does the attached look to your reader client?  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s) ! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  >  > > -----Original Message-----E > > From: Peter Weaver [mailto:WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca]  > > Sent: April 7, 2003 1:37 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > > Subject: Re: Newsgroup posting conventions, was: RE: VMS > > Software Product & Online  > >  > >  > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > >...? > > > While this may change in the future, I am currently stuck  > > with sending0 > > > "plain text" emails via my Outback client. > > >  > > >... > > 6 > > Kerry, to make your posts easier to read try this; > >     In Outlook > >     Click on Tools > >     Click on Options& > >     Click on the Preferences panel > >     Click on E-Mail Options  > > ; > > Under "On replies and forwards" set "When replying to a @ > > message" to "Prefix each line of the original message." Then9 > > make sure ">" is in the "Prefix each line with:" box.  > > ? > > Your message will still be plain text and you will still be > > > using Outlook, but it would make us readers a lot happier. > >  > > -- > > Peter Weaver# > > Weaver Consulting Services Inc. - > > Serving Southern Ontario/Western New York  > >  > >  > >  > >     N So now you have learned to add the standard quoting character. but you need toL learn how to tell yoru client to put the quote at the top of the message andM then learn how to remove the unnecessary quoted material to leave only enough  lines to set the context.   M I have purpusefully left your message intact to show you what this looks tous 4 (another > added since I was quoting your response).  W ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc1855.txt  will give you some internet nettiquette.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 12:04:39 -0700, From: vinit.adya@mizuhocbus.com (Vinit Adya)$ Subject: ODS5: What is the downside?= Message-ID: <eb8f4d7b.0304151104.60c2a24e@posting.google.com>    Hi everyone,D We are planning to impliment to ODS5: file system. Could anyone tellF me if there is any downdise to it? I mean will the existing apps be ok% it ot do we need to make any changes?   C On a similar subject, Whats is the maximin volume size supported on  OpenVMS 7.2?   Regards, Vinit    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:09:53 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ( Subject: Re: ODS5: What is the downside?1 Message-ID: <03041514095396@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   F > We are planning to impliment to ODS5: file system. Could anyone tellH > me if there is any downdise to it? I mean will the existing apps be ok' > it ot do we need to make any changes?   J If the apps use UPERCASE there should be no problem there.  Testing should prove this one way or another.  N Apache for VMS (CSWS) is will run on ODS-5 disks however it does not recongize= the ODS-5 special characters (spaces, multiple periods, etc.)   ( Advanced Server has no problems with it.   Users will need to be educated.   K I use a combination of ODS-2 and ODS-5 disks in my cluster and have have no N issues other than one user not finding their case-sensitve file.  No big deal.  5 Certain applications do require ODS-5 (Java, PERL(?))   E > On a similar subject, Whats is the maximin volume size supported on  > OpenVMS 7.2?   VFL      John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 15:42:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: ODS5: What is the downside?3 Message-ID: <KJExu4JOylzg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <03041514095396@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes: G >> We are planning to impliment to ODS5: file system. Could anyone tell I >> me if there is any downdise to it? I mean will the existing apps be ok ( >> it ot do we need to make any changes? > L > If the apps use UPERCASE there should be no problem there.  Testing should  > prove this one way or another.  @    Earlier verions of VMS which supported ODS-5 had limitations:-       DECwindows FileView doesn't understand: -       	 - directories with special characters C       	 - case-insensitive extension mapping (can't set actions for 6       	    file extensions that are not all uppercase)A       CDE's file viewer doesn't display anything that's not ODS-2        	 compliant =       VAX'en in the cluster couldn't mount ODS-5 file systemsO?       MMS can't map file extensions that are not all upper caselH       CMS sometimes needs help with elements that are not all upper case       D    I know current the version of VMS for VAX (7.3) _can_ mount ODS-5C    systems and does a good job of showing most files.  I don't knowa(    if the other issues have been worked.     G    I never had any real app problems, they all assumed case-insensitive G    files.  Programming in Java is much easier on ODS-5 with the correct      settings and C RTL patches.     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:56:25 -0400o' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> ( Subject: Re: ODS5: What is the downside?< Message-ID: <howard-E2FEC1.19562515042003@enews.newsguy.com>  F In article <03041514095396@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com  wrote:  7 > Certain applications do require ODS-5 (Java, PERL(?))O  < Oracle...  And other won't work with ODS-5, requiring ODS-2.   -- i4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 02:25:38 GMTu4 From: Craig A. Berry <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>( Subject: Re: ODS5: What is the downside?@ Message-ID: <996a8cf606133414cf7f18b1464c82d1@news.teranews.com>  C In <03041514095396@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com> brandon@dalsemi.com wrote:s  7 > Certain applications do require ODS-5 (Java, PERL(?))   C The Perl port has been continuously maintained since about 1994 so kG obviously predates ODS-5 by quite a bit.  We are actually a bit behind iH in supporting all the DECC$EFS... feature logicals now available in the . C RTL but there are some updates in the works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:18:47 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!!2 Message-ID: <b7hpjs$ru8$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>   Bob Koehler wrote:k > In article <x5Eia.302699$3D1.166572@sccrnsc01>, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:4 > P >>Seems pretty clear (to a layman) that HP could persue a trademark infringement
 >>lawsuit. >> >  > H >    Yep.  You might not mistake a vacuum cleaner for a 32 bit computer,I >    but HP OpenVMS systems and the vault system are both heavily relatedl >    to computers and software.n > O Seems you never heard the noise of a small Sun system, it really sounds like a   vacuum cleaner.q   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 15:44:29 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!!3 Message-ID: <9hqfbV10NInm@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  S In article <b7hpjs$ru8$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:TQ > Seems you never heard the noise of a small Sun system, it really sounds like a A > vacuum cleaner.p  F    Nope.  All of the Suns I gotta deal with are in rooms much to noisy    for that to be heard.  F    But I did once put an HP 1000 in a fairly quite room.  Sounded like)    a 707 taking off when I powered it up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:26:00 -04000! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>o0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Security - REALLY !!!!!K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BE8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  K In article <b7hpjs$ru8$1@news1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  writes:.I > Seems you never heard the noise of a small Sun system, it really sounds7 like a > > vacuum cleaner.c  F    Nope.  All of the Suns I gotta deal with are in rooms much to noisy    for that to be heard.  F    But I did once put an HP 1000 in a fairly quite room.  Sounded like)    a 707 taking off when I powered it up.a   Two words:  ESDI drives.   ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex., 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:43:47 GMTO& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai 8 Message-ID: <4nko9v07vq5rksfpnfsbk63hku0pqi2ncj@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:40:24 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyl. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:     > F >Had you considered why they ran with a pre release version of OpenVMS, >on a mission critical production system ??? >rD >I would guess that the GS160 upgrade didn't deliver the performanceC >they were expecting and that they had to go to 7.3 to get improvede >NUMA support.  F EXACTLY!  FINALLY!  You GUESS!!!  But that's as far as it goes, just a guess.  B It's about time you finally admitted that you don't know for sure.A Now why the heck do you continue to argue something that's just an	 guess?!!!o  C >Now in the total absence on your part of any supporting data about D >the total performance improvement of moving to GS160's which shouldC >based on numbers of CPU's and CPU performance improvements be overt) >200% this is a perfectly sensible guess.n > E >If you cannot provide the numbers then you simply don't have a case.t    B But they ARE a happy customer, which is the only case I've made in that regard.     >> c >> tB >> Ho hum... as if you/Sun are (or have been) lilly white in theirI >> marketing claims over the years.  Everyone sells their products in the.@ >> best way they can, and that includes Sun.  When I worked as aI >> customer, I was on the receiving end of lots of Sun bullshit, so don'tuC >> cry foul when you see something you don't like from anyone else.a > ? >Look you claimed that the GS320 was the worlds fastest server.k  E No, I do not.  Maybe the marketing folks, do, but then, Sun's dot coms  ads were just as much marketing.   >t: >Fact, you were unable to support this claim.  Crying foul7 >in this situation isn't unsuprising because your claimt >was demonstrably untrue.f  C Again, show me where I made this claim.  I did not, so I don't have  anything needing support.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 12:54:21 -0700' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson):Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai0= Message-ID: <734da31c.0304151154.682d0c33@posting.google.com>:  ! Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyrB <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote > I challenge you to+ trawl back through all the public benchmarkg@ > results for the 8400-GS140-GS320, compare them with Sun/HP/IBM> > results for those tests at the same time, you will find thatA > except for period between the introduction of the 8400 and when ; > Sun introduced the E4500-E10K there is no time when the 3 6 > servers held a performance lead over Sun/HP and IBM.  C I haven't seen that Sun have been any good on benchmarks the last 4w@ years. When they are better they have lots of more CPU's and areD compared and still slower to machines with less CPU's. Before Power4 IBM were not that good either.  > > There is a history around Alpha servers of hugely optimistic; > performance claims which have never been supported by anyu
 > collateral.r  D From what I have seen and experienced Alpha has been a very fast CPUE and many benchmarks have also shown that. Digital/Compaq never reallyaD advertised the Alpha so the "hugely optimistic performance" are from! real users solving real problems.e   /David   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:51:25 -0400c* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retair2 Message-ID: <YRWdncbgVZ-QNAGjXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0304151154.682d0c33@posting.google.com...o# > Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancylD > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote > I challenge you to- > trawl back through all the public benchmarknB > > results for the 8400-GS140-GS320, compare them with Sun/HP/IBM@ > > results for those tests at the same time, you will find thatC > > except for period between the introduction of the 8400 and wheni= > > Sun introduced the E4500-E10K there is no time when the 3v8 > > servers held a performance lead over Sun/HP and IBM. >iE > I haven't seen that Sun have been any good on benchmarks the last 4aB > years. When they are better they have lots of more CPU's and are8 > compared and still slower to machines with less CPU's.  G Andrew's point likely being that Sun has supported systems sufficiently3L larger than Alpha's largest systems to maintain an overall, though certainly& not a per-processor, performance lead.    Before Power4  > IBM were not that good either. >o@ > > There is a history around Alpha servers of hugely optimistic= > > performance claims which have never been supported by anyp > > collateral.h >pF > From what I have seen and experienced Alpha has been a very fast CPUG > and many benchmarks have also shown that. Digital/Compaq never really F > advertised the Alpha so the "hugely optimistic performance" are from# > real users solving real problems..  F While Alpha has been pretty much unsurpassed as a processor, its largeK systems have often failed to match its excellence.  The GS80/160/320 series.I didn't scale all that well compared with the smaller (e.g., ES) systems -5K and when it appeared failed rather spectacularly to meet the extremely rosyeH expectations set by people like Rob Young (the EV7-based GS1280 is doingG much better in this regard, even with single-processor performance thatn( doesn't exceed EV68's in many respects).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:59:47 GMTt& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSo8 Message-ID: <lflo9voutf1la757m8ffgrnv0tl9rne919@4ax.com>  D On 12 Apr 2003 16:14:20 -0700, svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote:     >o? >Exactly.  The SAN is there so that many servers can access thed@ >library.  And to attach the library to the SAN, you will need a >SCSI-to-f.c. bridge.-  F For storageworks, that would be an NSR (Network Storage Router).  This4 is required to connect the SCSI libraries to the FC:  F  Network Storage Router N1200 - choice of LVD or HVD SCSI output ports 	list price about $8,000   Also, for LVD SCSI ports:w  5 	M2402 Network Storage Router (2FC x 4LVD SCSI ports)  	List price about $15,200d   Also, for HVD SCSI ports:e  5 	M2402 Network Storage Router (2FC x 4HVD SCSI ports): 	List price about $15,800f   >rA >> As to the "tape-on-a-SAN" concept, if you'd care to share yourSI >> TAPESTART.COM (part of the SLS startup) and SYS$DEVICES.DAT files withpJ >> me, how to demung the reply-to address should be obvious. If you happenK >> to also be using DCSC, so much the better. Send also the library listing0: >> and LUN listing files from DCSC's configuration editor.  D Generally, I'd think you'd want MDMS to control/own the tape drives,E and to allocate them to the backup processes - this prevents multiple"1 jobs from trying to utilize the same tape device.n  B The devices show up to the VMS system as MGAxxx I think (it's been2 awhile since I've done a VMS tape library on SAN). > C >Dave, I do not have experience with connecting VMS systems to tapenC >systems on a SAN.  My experience has been with using NT, Win2k and D >Solaris in a SAN-based backup environment.  I always follow the EBS@ >(Enterprise Backup Solution) guidelines when building my backup+ >solutions and have never had any problems.g  E I've implemented tape libraries on an NSR (and older MDR).  ObviouslyM> you've got to work out to keep multiple systems from trying to" allocate the drive simultaneously.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:02:46 GMTe& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS 8 Message-ID: <vulo9v80l6u5hnr72g912p7t0pv8f5cl5t@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:57:45 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"w <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  ) >Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:o >>   >> David J. Dachtera wrote:n >> > Scott Vieth wrote:c >> > >> rJ >> > Well, take the subject of the original post very literally. AttachingM >> > the library to the SAN is one thing. Getting VMS to recognize and accessxM >> > the drives is of much broader scope, and that is the specific area wheretG >> > I need the expertise of someone who has already been where I'm nowe >> > trekking. >> >G >> > By appearances, I am blazing a VMS trail here as few, if any, havenK >> > already done what I'm trying to do, including the vendors selling this0L >> > stuff. They know it's possible, but when it comes to "how", they're all! >> > left scratching their heads.  >> > >> e >> Humm. >> sD >> I think you are asking the wrong people, you should be telling HP >> and STK what you want.h >, >I did. They choked on it. >HG >The problem is that I'm forced to deal with something that was dreamedlG >up by people who, by their own admission, are not midframe people, andi6 >don't grok much beyond WhineBloze, Linux and FreeBSD. >jC >So, I'm left to ask such questions here in this group, for lack of- >another resource.  B Well, specifically, you didn't find anyone with STK/ACSLS/DSCS and= FC-to-VMS-to- experience.  That's pretty specific.  We've gotgF experience with our own tape libraries on VMS, including using ABS/SLS
 with MDMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:57:19 -0500r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSa' Message-ID: <3E9CC68F.659F7D5D@fsi.net>    jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:57:45 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"c  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > [snip] > >eI > >The problem is that I'm forced to deal with something that was dreamedrI > >up by people who, by their own admission, are not midframe people, and 8 > >don't grok much beyond WhineBloze, Linux and FreeBSD. > >1E > >So, I'm left to ask such questions here in this group, for lack of  > >another resource. > D > Well, specifically, you didn't find anyone with STK/ACSLS/DSCS and? > FC-to-VMS-to- experience.  That's pretty specific.  We've gottH > experience with our own tape libraries on VMS, including using ABS/SLS > with MDMS.  G So, I'm left to assume (no clues in your reply-to) that you work for an 1 outfit that either makes or sells tape libraries.   E You're quite right - it is rather a specific combination. What I find0 disturbing is that:s  F o The VMS folks haven't seen such in install in longer than anyone canD remember. They have no one they can offer under "Reserve An Expert".  F o VMS does not support 1st generation LTO drives (just found out about< that today), and gen 2 support is not expected this quarter.  H o Both the VAR and StorageTek are as clueless as I am beyond the doc.'s. They haven't done it, either.d  H o Between V6.0 and V6.1 of ACSLS, teh API changed effectively "breaking"< DCSC. So, ACSLS V6.0 or earlier is needed to "support" DCSC.  G So, yes - it is confirmed: I *AM* blazing a VMS trail here - what trail = there may have once been is long-since grown-over and hidden.m  H Too bad I'm not still an independent. Since I'm probably one of a *VERY*A few people bold enough to believe that they can pull this off, mylB consulting fees would now be spiraling upward at an alarming rate.   -- f David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/q   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:05:19 -0500g1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>8' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSv' Message-ID: <3E9CC86F.53E7094F@fsi.net>n   jlsue wrote: > [snip]F > Generally, I'd think you'd want MDMS to control/own the tape drives,G > and to allocate them to the backup processes - this prevents multiple 3 > jobs from trying to utilize the same tape device.a  F ...and, in fact, according to the SLS documentation, MDMS is, in fact,- the underlying layer which does exactly that.T  D > The devices show up to the VMS system as MGAxxx I think (it's been4 > awhile since I've done a VMS tape library on SAN).   Yes, that is correct.s  @ Use MC SYSMAN IO FIND_WWID to probe for the drives and write theH appropriate sections of SYS$DEVICES.DAT in the SYS$SYSTEM: path. To read; that file and set up the DCBs, use MC SYSMAN AUTOCONFIGURE.   G > I've implemented tape libraries on an NSR (and older MDR).  Obviously @ > you've got to work out to keep multiple systems from trying to$ > allocate the drive simultaneously.  D Except in a cluster where this is managed for you, in large measure.  E The challenge in this setup is that it's supposed to be an EnterpriseeG SAN solution. So, the ACSLS part is there to play server to the variousaF clients wanting robotic actions: W2K, Novell and VMS. We all share theH robots (two ACSs). The drives are dedicated through zoning on the switch+ and through mapping on the SCSI-FC bridges.o  % This is turning into one unholy mess.i   -- m David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:57:12 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: The value of documentationh/ Message-ID: <3E9CE29C.7A5809D6@vl.videotron.ca>   K One thing that had set VMS apart in its heydays was its complete, accurate,1K reliable documentation. When you needed to do a task, you opened the manual-3 and knew that your task would work without a hitch.0    J My latests attempts are getting XDM to work has made me start to wonder ifH that was really the case anymore. Looking on the net, there is plenty ofH documentation about the MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 authentication, yet the TCPIPM manuals contain not a work about whether it is supported or not, and this hasp? caused me many hours of trying to figure out what was going on.e  L In such cases, I'd much rather have access to the sources so I can check forI myself instead of twidling with tests to try to see what is going on, and M playing with a traceroute utility that didn't display ay packets at first and K only later started to cooperate (it seemed to work fine at 5.3, this was my5  first time using it with ECO-2).  F It seems to me that many things VMS have become "random" in behaviour,M especially with TCPIP services. I won't list all the hitches that have costed.K me much time, but I have now realised it is significant. Heck, i won't evensF try to enable SLIP with this new ECO for 5.3 because I don't feel likeM rebooting (that took me a long while to figure out that the SET INTERFACE SL0u causes the vax to crash).i  Q And by the way, there should be an easy way on the vms web site to submit an spr.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:32:26 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install questiond/ Message-ID: <3E9C7A5F.4FD81080@vl.videotron.ca>-   Scott Squires wrote: > F > I tried installing C++ about a year ago but had trouble and gave up.G > I decided to give it another try.  The installation doesn't really goaD > anywhere before it stops because of missing logical names.  Anyone@ > know how I can find out which logical names it is looking for?  L It escapes me at the moment, but if you look at SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.COM forM "SET VERIFY" of F$VERIFY(  you may find out whcih logical name can be defined I prior to invoking @VMSINSTAL to result in debugging output to your screen   O I suspect that it is looking for logicals pointing to your DEC C include files.e  F The other method is to extract all the files from the .A saveset, editK KITINSTAL.COM to set verification on, and then recreate the .A saveset withTM the fixed kitinstal.com and then run it. May sound like more work, but in theuG end, if you need to modify the nstakllation procedure to get around thel+ bug/limitation, then that is work not lost.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 04:09:21 +020002 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install question ; Message-ID: <3e9cbb51.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>h  1 JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca) wrote:t > Scott Squires wrote:H > > I tried installing C++ about a year ago but had trouble and gave up.I > > I decided to give it another try.  The installation doesn't really goeF > > anywhere before it stops because of missing logical names.  AnyoneB > > know how I can find out which logical names it is looking for? >eJ > It escapes me at the moment, but if you look at SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL.COMK > for "SET VERIFY" of F$VERIFY(  you may find out whcih logical name can beaL > defined prior to invoking @VMSINSTAL to result in debugging output to your > screen  & Setting P4 to "D" will turn on VERIFY.   cu,r   Martin -- wG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/e; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:36:03 -0400C( From: "Rob Faulds" <rfaulds@charter.net>) Subject: Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU)p, Message-ID: <b7hfu3$2vja$1@heap.juniper.net>   Hello,  H This is a bit off-topic but seemed like a likely place for the answer...  J Does anyone remember using Emacs (not GNU) on VMS at DEC in the late 80's?  L There was a nice port (it wasn't GNU) done by (I think Barry ?) in the UK (IK remember a mail address with demon.co.uk).  He supported it for years and Io) thought even moved it to NT at one point.d   Ring any bells?I   Thanks,a -Rob   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Apr 2003 15:30:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU)e3 Message-ID: <$K5Tadv4BorW@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  W In article <b7hfu3$2vja$1@heap.juniper.net>, "Rob Faulds" <rfaulds@charter.net> writes:s > Hello, > J > This is a bit off-topic but seemed like a likely place for the answer... > L > Does anyone remember using Emacs (not GNU) on VMS at DEC in the late 80's?  C    All I remeber is the adds in the DEC rags warning you not to gete    half-emacsed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:14:38 -0400-( From: "Rob Faulds" <rfaulds@charter.net>- Subject: Re: Vax/vms Emacs? (Barry's not GNU) , Message-ID: <b7hsno$1c7r$1@heap.juniper.net>  + I found it. -- http://www.barrys-emacs.org/V  G 8-Jan-2003 Beta test version of Barry's Emacs V7.2-213 is available fora Windows, Linux and FreeBSD.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:07:08 +0100e* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>" Subject: Re: What is the downside?5 Message-ID: <b7hvqh$18h6k$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>   9 "Vinit Adya" <vinit.adya@mizuhocbus.com> wrote in messaget7 news:eb8f4d7b.0304151104.60c2a24e@posting.google.com...a > Hi everyone,F > We are planning to impliment to ODS5: file system. Could anyone tellH > me if there is any downdise to it? I mean will the existing apps be ok' > it ot do we need to make any changes?w >dE > On a similar subject, Whats is the maximin volume size supported ony > OpenVMS 7.2? >   G From what I recall, the largest single volume 'supported' is 1Terabyte.rK Conversations with people in filesystem engineering lead be to believe thatxH up to 2Tb mostly works, but has not had sufficient testing to be certain7 that there are no nasty gotcha's hiding away somewhere.BD This limitation has been noted, and I understand that one of the lowL priority objectives for an unspecified future version is to properly support upto 64Tb volumes.L In practice you can build a _volume set_ with a total capacity upto 256Tb as( long as each volume is no more than 1Tb.L Since there are no disks available that are large enough to contain 1Tb on aK single device, you need to use hardware raid to build your 1Tb volume. ThisAA would take 29 36Gb disks per volume to achieve the capacity, plus H howevermany redundancy disks. Maybe not the most effective use of a raid controller.oA It might also be a problem taking a backup of a volume that size.p     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/         ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/2003    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:55:41 -0400o' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>n" Subject: Re: What is the downside?< Message-ID: <howard-3ACDFB.19554115042003@enews.newsguy.com>  5 In article <b7hvqh$18h6k$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>,o,  "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> wrote:  I > From what I recall, the largest single volume 'supported' is 1Terabyte..  I Why so small??  Disks that size will be coming down the pike soon enough.D   -- C4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:44:14 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>" Subject: Re: What is the downside?2 Message-ID: <7FidncgYCLLDOgGjXTWcog@metrocast.net>  4 "Howard S Shubs" <howard@shubs.net> wrote in message6 news:howard-3ACDFB.19554115042003@enews.newsguy.com...7 > In article <b7hvqh$18h6k$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>, . >  "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> wrote: >nK > > From what I recall, the largest single volume 'supported' is 1Terabyte.  >aK > Why so small??  Disks that size will be coming down the pike soon enough.   J Ancient internal code that assumes that a (512-byte) block number will fitH in 32 bits (and that might, or might not, have trouble handling a numberL that appeared to be 'negative', hence limiting the nominally-supported range	 to 1 TB).:   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:50:55 -04005' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>e" Subject: Re: What is the downside?< Message-ID: <howard-798DD0.23505515042003@enews.newsguy.com>  2 In article <7FidncgYCLLDOgGjXTWcog@metrocast.net>,,  "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  L > Ancient internal code that assumes that a (512-byte) block number will fitJ > in 32 bits (and that might, or might not, have trouble handling a numberN > that appeared to be 'negative', hence limiting the nominally-supported range > to 1 TB).a  F Ah, so it's not recent.  Guess it's time to change it.  ODS-6, anyone?   -- :4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.209 ************************