1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 20 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 217       Contents:5 Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately! & Re: Day Light Savings for VMS and UNIX- Re: DecServer 700 and UCX 4.2 with bootp/tftp 1 Re: How come a WinTel Flash file works under VMS?  HP's SSH server EAK  Re: HP's SSH server EAK  Re: HP's SSH server EAK  Re: HP's SSH server EAK 9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. # Re: locked out by CDE screen saver! * Re: Mirroring versus Shadowing - any diff?/ OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments  Re: Problem with Proxies! Re: system tools cd mount problem . Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen2 Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - JensenO Why did Digital go broke? (Was: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:10:48 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> > Subject: Re: attention Sue: alert your task force immediately!' Message-ID: <3EA20FB8.EB867CAE@fsi.net>    "Wayne W. Scott" wrote:  > T > At a place where I used to work, they started using the term "Heritage" instead ofX > "legacy."  I think it sounds better; it reminds me of, "we are proud of our heritage."  D I can still remember when "legacy" and "proud heritage" were not all that dissimilar.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:08:59 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: Day Light Savings for VMS and UNIX ' Message-ID: <3EA20F4B.CC67BE51@fsi.net>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > [ > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E9D183A.273C5EBA@127.0.0.1>...  > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > N > > > The full hour adjustment doesn't really make sense, but it may have been >  > Why?  F Think about it: if you need to shift forward one hour, then shift backB an hour, obviously where you need to constantly be is somewhere in between.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:03:40 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: DecServer 700 and UCX 4.2 with bootp/tftp4 Message-ID: <wtloa.137009$UR.1226020@news.chello.at>  k In article <f7a73cb1.0304101224.1a0f2330@posting.google.com>, c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) writes: 7 >We're told they're shutting down Lat/Decnet on any new A >implementations, so we have to get rid or the old Decserve 200 & ? >300's. But this means MOM$LOAD won't work to load cfg into the  >decserver.    Who are "they" ?  7 LAT and MOP are LAN-only protocols. DECnet is routable.   G So, if you speak about loosing DECnet and LAT and MOP on your VMS host, D then the are things to consider: MOP and LAT are not part of DECnet.C If you have to deinstall DECnet on your host, MOP can still be done G via LANCP and LAT is completely separately managed (and is [like LANCP] F part of VMS itself and not [part of] a layered product [like DECnet]).  G But, if you speak about loosing DECnet protocol in your router, I've to M tell you, that DECservers don't talk DECnet. They talk LAT and TCP/IP-TELNET.   J So, if you speak also about loosing LAT forwarding function in the routersH (I doubt, that this is used), then yes, you have to switch to TCP/IP but not for booting in every case.  E Normally switches have no protcol filters setup (it cost performance, E and brings no real advantage except forcing a [insane] policy) so, if L your hosts has still its software and is in the same LAN, you could continue8 with your old setup as MOP (and LAT) continue to work...  F >Does anyone have any hints on Decserver 700 cfg to get it to speak to >UCX 4.2 with bootp / tftp?   E I know, it can be done. So far, I haven't seen a DS700. So, don't ask I me about how to configure it. But if it similar to a DS900, I could help.   A >Is there a cfg book out there anywhere? ( in pdf / html format ) G >How secure is bootp/TFTP, cause I guess we need this left open, incase 3 >the decserver resets and needs to be loaded again?   J It is almost as insecure as on other platforms. With TFTP you can downloadI files without authentication. So, the TFTP server should only have access : to its own directory (with the downloadable files) at all.K If you don't need dumping, you could make the TFTP server Access-Read-only.   2 >Any problems or cavets on bootp /tftp on UCX 4.2?  D Not that I know of. Loadfile formats for BOOTP/TFTP and MOP might be9 slightly different (eg. in file attributes), but I doubt.   1 >Any problems on going through different subnets?   ? BOOTP is a broadcast protocol and is therefor a LAN only thing. F With the help of BOOTP (or DHCP or General-UDP forwarders, CISCO calls. them "helpers") it can be extended to the WAN.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:38:34 +0100 ' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk> : Subject: Re: How come a WinTel Flash file works under VMS?2 Message-ID: <190420031838346626%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  @ In article <3ea166f5$0$26345$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL& <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:  M > So, I successfully fixed my Flash anim problem, but then I realized that I  P > actually copied the .SWF and the .FIRE from my PC to the Alpha and "it works". > ) > How come??? It's plain binary inside...   D Interesting. It's been so long since I bothered with Flash in VMS, I> never thought to keep up. A few seconds with google revealed:-  D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/mozilla_relnotes.html  F Someone sneaked up to your machine and installed Mark Berryman's FlashE player or it is built in! Looks like it is time to try Mozilla on VMS  after all these years.  0 For the details of the Flash binary format see:-C http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/ - and click through that lot for the free doco.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:08:52 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> Subject: HP's SSH server EAK, Message-ID: <3EA19EC3.7060503@spammotel.com>   TCP/IP Services 5.3 ECO 2  OpenVMS Alpha 7.3   B I've installed the EAK for HP's SSH client/server product onto my G hobbyist system and have run into a snag I'm hoping the group can help  E with.  It seeems from the log that the server cannot read the client  G public-key file.  The log doesn't suggest _why_ the server cannot read  , it, but I suspect  the file format is wrong.  E The EAK documentation says that public-key files must be in StreamLF  G format.  Since I created The public-key file on a Windows client using  G PuTTYgen, and FTP's it to my VMS system using ASCII mode, the file was  G created on the VMS system in the variable-length file format.  I don't  F have a clue really about VMS file formats, but after some googling on E the subject I concluded that the following command would convert the   file to StreamLF:   ) $ SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=RFM:STMLF <filespec>    Here's the result:   $ DIRECTORY/FULL <filespec>   " Directory DISK$USR:[TBRANSCO.SSH2]  @ DSASSH2_20030418_PUBLIC.PPK;1             File ID:  (38,28180,0)2 Size:            2/4          Owner:    [TBRANSCO]" Created:   18-APR-2003 21:34:06.32& Revised:   19-APR-2003 11:08:18.87 (3) Expires:   <None specified>  Backup:    <No backup recorded>  Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified>  File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughD File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0%                      No version limit A Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 680 bytes 4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None> File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:R Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None   Total of 1 file, 2/4 blocks.  H The only other reason I can think of for the server's inability to read G the file would be access rights, but I gave the file WORLD read access.   E If anyone has suggestions on how to fix this, I'd appreciate hearing   them.  Thanks.   Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:59:09 +0100 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK? Message-ID: <a505cbe54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   + In message <3EA19EC3.7060503@spammotel.com> 3           Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote:    > TCP/IP Services 5.3 ECO 2  > OpenVMS Alpha 7.3  > D > I've installed the EAK for HP's SSH client/server product onto my I > hobbyist system and have run into a snag I'm hoping the group can help  G > with.  It seeems from the log that the server cannot read the client  I > public-key file.  The log doesn't suggest _why_ the server cannot read  . > it, but I suspect  the file format is wrong. > G > The EAK documentation says that public-key files must be in StreamLF  I > format.  Since I created The public-key file on a Windows client using  I > PuTTYgen, and FTP's it to my VMS system using ASCII mode, the file was  I > created on the VMS system in the variable-length file format.  I don't  H > have a clue really about VMS file formats, but after some googling on G > the subject I concluded that the following command would convert the   > file to StreamLF:  > + > $ SET FILE/ATTRIBUTE=RFM:STMLF <filespec>  >  > Here's the result: >  > $ DIRECTORY/FULL <filespec>  > $ > Directory DISK$USR:[TBRANSCO.SSH2] > B > DSASSH2_20030418_PUBLIC.PPK;1             File ID:  (38,28180,0)4 > Size:            2/4          Owner:    [TBRANSCO]$ > Created:   18-APR-2003 21:34:06.32( > Revised:   19-APR-2003 11:08:18.87 (3) > Expires:   <None specified> ! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>  > Effective: <None specified>  > Recording: <None specified>   > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughF > File attributes:    Allocation: 4, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0' >                      No version limit C > Record format:      Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 680 bytes 6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: None@ > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:R > Access Cntrl List:  None > Client attributes:  None >  > Total of 1 file, 2/4 blocks. > J > The only other reason I can think of for the server's inability to read I > the file would be access rights, but I gave the file WORLD read access.  > G > If anyone has suggestions on how to fix this, I'd appreciate hearing   > them.  Thanks. >  > Alder  >   K There are two different ways to change a file's record format, depending on D what is wrong with it. Sometimes the data in the file, including theE end-of-line characters, which you want to be LF, are correct, but the K definition in the directory entry is wrong. In this case the set file/attr= ) command changes the directory definition.   L In other cases the file really is stored in variable length records, and youJ want to convert the file contents, as well as the definition. In this case! you need the CONVERT/FDL command.   I This command can be confusong, and I generally find the easiest way is to C create an FDL file from an existing file of the right format, using  $ANAL/RMS/FDL <sample_file>   / and then use that FDL file to convert your data   6 $CONVERT/FDL=<sample_file> <data_file> <new_data_file>  I You can put the FDL definition in the command line, but even with command   line edit I find this too messy.   --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2003 17:20:49 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK3 Message-ID: <eHcvaCl3AruY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <a505cbe54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>, Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> writes: - > In message <3EA19EC3.7060503@spammotel.com> 5 >           Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> wrote:   H >> The EAK documentation says that public-key files must be in StreamLF 
 >> format.  M > There are two different ways to change a file's record format, depending on F > what is wrong with it. Sometimes the data in the file, including theG > end-of-line characters, which you want to be LF, are correct, but the M > definition in the directory entry is wrong. In this case the set file/attr= + > command changes the directory definition.   5 This does not seem like very robust software for VMS.   - Is the Process Software offering any better ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 05:12:13 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>  Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK, Message-ID: <3EA22C2A.6040003@spammotel.com>   Alan Adams wrote: M > There are two different ways to change a file's record format, depending on F > what is wrong with it. Sometimes the data in the file, including theG > end-of-line characters, which you want to be LF, are correct, but the M > definition in the directory entry is wrong. In this case the set file/attr= + > command changes the directory definition.  > N > In other cases the file really is stored in variable length records, and youL > want to convert the file contents, as well as the definition. In this case# > you need the CONVERT/FDL command.  > K > This command can be confusong, and I generally find the easiest way is to E > create an FDL file from an existing file of the right format, using  > $ANAL/RMS/FDL <sample_file>  > 1 > and then use that FDL file to convert your data  > 8 > $CONVERT/FDL=<sample_file> <data_file> <new_data_file> > K > You can put the FDL definition in the command line, but even with command " > line edit I find this too messy. >   G Thanks for the great summary, Alan.  I tried what you suggested and it  I appeared to go well :-)  I think you've eliminated file record format as    a possible cause of the problem.  G Unfortunately, I still cannot use public-key authentication to make an   SSH connection to my server.  H Should anyone want to follow along, here's part of the session log of a  failed connection:   ... ( debug: new_connection_callback returning debug: got_connection returned debug: Running event loop 7 debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:616: Remote version:   SSH-2.0-PuTTY-Release-0.53b E debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1135: c_to_s: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1138: s_to_c: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:411: user 'TBRANSCO' service 'ssh-connection'  7 client_ip '192.168.0.1' client_port '1833' completed '' - debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:541: output: publickey 2 WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.G debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:152: DISCONNECT received: No supported    authentication methods available5 debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:159: locally_generated = FALSE  debug: Exiting event loop 9    TCPIP$SSH    job terminated at 19-APR-2003 21:17:17.94   F The above output is generated when I configure the server to use only 7 publickey authentication.  The line in SSHD2_CONFIG is:    ... $ AllowedAuthentications     publickey ...   E If I add 'password' to the list of authentication methods to try, i.e    ... - AllowedAuthentications     publickey,password  ...   B I can get a successful connection, but the log again reports that  publickey authentication fails:    ... ( debug: new_connection_callback returning debug: got_connection returned debug: Running event loop 7 debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:616: Remote version:   SSH-2.0-PuTTY-Release-0.53b E debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1135: c_to_s: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1138: s_to_c: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:411: user 'TBRANSCO' service 'ssh-connection'  7 client_ip '192.168.0.1' client_port '1832' completed '' 6 debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:541: output: publickey,password2 WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.< debug: SshUnixUser/SSHUNIXUSER.C;1:1347: not yet implementedI debug: SshUnixUser/SSHUNIXUSER.C;1:1335: kerberos support not compiled in E debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:411: user 'TBRANSCO' service 'ssh-connection'  ? client_ip '192.168.0.1' client_port '1832' completed 'password' G debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:320: Received SSH_CROSS_STARTUP packet   from connection protocol. C debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:370: Received SSH_CROSS_ALGORITHMS    packet from connection protocol.F debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:288: Received SSH_CROSS_AUTHENTICATED   packet from connection protocol.7 debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:721: num_channels now 1 @ debug: Ssh2ChannelSession/SSHCHSESSION.C;1:1187: Allocating pty. ...   9 Would it be a safe bet to say that the lines which state:   6     WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.@     debug: SshUnixUser/SSHUNIXUSER.C;1:1347: not yet implemented  F are telling me that 'publickey' authentication is not yet implemented?   Thanks for reading,    Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:19:29 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed.' Message-ID: <3EA211C1.2DAE5FE1@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > [snip]F > If you'd like to see OpenVMS topic forums, there's a "-> Contact HP"F > link on the page -- please use it.  You might need to be prepared to+ > include a list of discussion topic areas.   
 List = all   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:25:06 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: locked out by CDE screen saver!4 Message-ID: <Cgioa.135209$UR.1203343@news.chello.at>  w In article <01KUK8GWRZ7CA9NUCE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: I >This morning, I tried to unlock the CDE screensaver on my workstation by G >typing in the password.  It didn't work.  It beeped, like happens when H >the password is wrong.  I could log in on the console (VT 520) with no D >problem.  I changed the password.  Screen saver was still locked.    >Changed it back.  Still locked. > E >In the end, I restarted DECwindows from the console.  After that, I   >could log in again. > I >Does anyone have any idea what could have caused this?  I've never seen   >it before.   K I've seen it at least once, since I switched to CDE a couple of months ago.  And it was not a cat...   > >There was no heavy load on the machine or anything like that. > I >This reminded me of one of the many reasons why I prefer a real VT with  # >a real serial line as the console.  > < >Digital Personal WorkStation (EV56 (21164A)), OpenVMS V7.3.   Ditto, OpenVMS V7.3-1    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:18:12 GMT = From: Michael Austin <maustin@n-o-s-p-a-m-firstdbasource.com> 3 Subject: Re: Mirroring versus Shadowing - any diff? > Message-ID: <3EA20333.68B14B9E@n-o-s-p-a-m-firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Wil Marsh wrote:J > > shadowing has an advantage if there are multiple controllers involved.H > > by putting shadow set members on different controllers you avoid the2 > > issue of controller failure causing an outage, > N > Is this a temporary issue though ? Won't SANs eventually have the ability toP > have redundant controllers with automatic failover ? (But right now, I realiseI > this is an advantage since those that do have dual controllers, seem to J > require manual reconfig to make the failover happen. (is this correct ?) >  > > where mirror sets are E > > on the same controller. also shadow members can be dismounted for $ > > backup while mirror sets cannot. > O > Conceptually, would it be possible to have the SAN take one of the drives out O > and present a new additional drive to VMS so that VMS could use it to perform  > the backup ? > K > VMS has the ability to see new drives appear dynamically (when a new node M > boots into the cluster, making its drives available for instance). So a SAN I > should be able to make a new drive appear dynamically to VMS, correct ?  > K > What about when you want to widthdraw that drive and place it back in the N > mirror, can VMS totally forget about a drive, or does it always remain known) > (marked offline/noavailable/whatever) ?  > J > Another question: in the above scenario, is it possible from DCL to sendK > management commands to a SAN to execute that split of the  mirror set and " > presentation of an extra drive ?    . With the new HSV, the answer is yes - sort-of.  ) We are looking at the following scenario.   $  HSG80--->SYSa on line backup--->HSV  G SYS2 adds a SNAP of the online backup data on HSV and pushes it to tape G keeping in mind that SYSa is actually ~50 2-node clusters.  this allows E SYS2 which is not in any of the other clusters to backup the data for E those clusters and without compromising the disks by having more that   one cluster mounting the disks.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2003 11:56:46 -0500+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) 8 Subject: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments3 Message-ID: <a67Uykrq+8v1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BEA@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes: + > DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments    >   + > By MATTHEW FORDAHL, AP Technology Writer   > L > SAN JOSE, Calif. - The U.S. military's research agency cut off grant moneyD > for helping to develop a secure, free operating system after a top< > programmer made anti-war statements to a major newspaper.    [blah blah blah]  L > "A tenured professor was telling me not to exercise my freedom of speech," > de Raadt said.    ? A specious argument at best but then again it is to be expected ? as it is the standard line that liberal facists use.  "I should A be able to say anything I want without consequences!", scream the ? liberal wankers.  "You can't say anything against what I say!", > they bray in a much louder bleat whilst beating the "Dubbya is= Hilter" drum, ignoring the irony that their actions intend to 4 deny their detractors _their_ freedom of expression.  @ The professor was _not_ keeping de Raadt from speaking.  Freedom? of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.      ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:39:08 -0400 (EDT) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> < Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After CommentsH Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53L-031.0304191729020.4512@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  A Well, Theo himself actually lives in Canada, partly for political  reasons.. point 1.B my second point is that Theo, while a hacker of great renown, alsoD is well known for getting himself on peoples nerves and into peoplesB killfiles (and i guess into peoples grant cancellations) by sayingE things without much tact. While it _is_ unfortunate, frightening, and A utterly objectionable that all it takes these days for someone to J be fired from public research is for him to make a comment on the policiesE of the government, it is also that fact that these days, all it takes A for someone to be fired from public research is for him to make a F comment on the policies of the government. I suppose he compounded hisB terrible offence by pointing out that the principles of freedom toF speak ones mind are grossly violated or completely abandoned when suchE a politically motivated move by the government takes place. It is one C thing if private individuals exercise their freedoms to both offend E one another and then fire those who offend them.. but the government, B as an entity which all citizens are forced to deal with, an entityH which purports to be the guardian of those freedoms, and an entity which@ does have a credible obligation to fairness, is a different kindG of animal. Anyway, to return to my point, Theo is well known for making D statements which might be wanting in the department of tact, even ifC they are usually witty, amusing, or toughtful, and he is well known G for botching good relations with people by making such statements... so B while what happened does indeed offend my (and many other peoples)D sensibilities, he should have known that in todays political climate  he might want to tread lightly..   my 2 cents,  isildur     4 On Sat, 19 Apr 2003, [ISO-8859-1] Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Marty Kuhrt wrote:D > > The professor was _not_ keeping de Raadt from speaking.  FreedomA > > of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.  >  > True.  >   > But I doubt that is the point. > . > The freedom to say what you think about your- > countries politics without loosing your job % > is rather fundamental in democracy.  > . > And the countries where that is not the case. > is usually not countries we want to live in. >  > Arne >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:36:02 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments2 Message-ID: <65CdnbQ7fvv-QDyjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  8 "Lord Isildur" <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in messageB news:Pine.GSO.4.53L-031.0304191729020.4512@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu... > C > Well, Theo himself actually lives in Canada, partly for political  > reasons.. point 1.D > my second point is that Theo, while a hacker of great renown, alsoF > is well known for getting himself on peoples nerves and into peoplesD > killfiles (and i guess into peoples grant cancellations) by sayingG > things without much tact. While it _is_ unfortunate, frightening, and C > utterly objectionable that all it takes these days for someone to L > be fired from public research is for him to make a comment on the policiesG > of the government, it is also that fact that these days, all it takes C > for someone to be fired from public research is for him to make a H > comment on the policies of the government. I suppose he compounded hisD > terrible offence by pointing out that the principles of freedom toH > speak ones mind are grossly violated or completely abandoned when suchG > a politically motivated move by the government takes place. It is one E > thing if private individuals exercise their freedoms to both offend G > one another and then fire those who offend them.. but the government, D > as an entity which all citizens are forced to deal with, an entityJ > which purports to be the guardian of those freedoms, and an entity whichB > does have a credible obligation to fairness, is a different kindI > of animal. Anyway, to return to my point, Theo is well known for making F > statements which might be wanting in the department of tact, even ifE > they are usually witty, amusing, or toughtful, and he is well known I > for botching good relations with people by making such statements... so D > while what happened does indeed offend my (and many other peoples)F > sensibilities, he should have known that in todays political climate" > he might want to tread lightly..  J From his comments, it seems that he knew that full well and decided not toL allow any fear of such potential consequences to circumscribe his freedom ofL expression - and bully for him.  My own disgust is that, once again, Dubya'sJ thugs have sacrificed *real* national interest (both the national securityG benefits that would accrue from supporting development of a more secure J OpenBSD that the government, including the military, makes significant useK of, and the ideological benefits of supporting freedom of speech by actions @ as well as by lip-service) for petty, heavy-handed, and entirely inappropriate retribution.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2003 01:12:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <b7ss5l$45n9q$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <3EA18AE2.6090302@vajhoej.dk>, & 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Marty Kuhrt wrote:C >> The professor was _not_ keeping de Raadt from speaking.  Freedom B >> of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.   >  > True.  >   > But I doubt that is the point. > . > The freedom to say what you think about your- > countries politics without loosing your job % > is rather fundamental in democracy.   D It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.6 It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity.  = Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:39:16 -0400 2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments4 Message-ID: <20030420013916.GE7473@eisenschmidt.org>  : Rumor has it that Bill Gunshannon (bill@cs.uofs.edu) said:+ > In article <3EA18AE2.6090302@vajhoej.dk>, * > 	Arne Vajh=F8j <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > > Marty Kuhrt wrote:E > >> The professor was _not_ keeping de Raadt from speaking.  Freedom F > >> of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences. =20 > >=20	 > > True.  > >=20" > > But I doubt that is the point. > >=200 > > The freedom to say what you think about your/ > > countries politics without loosing your job ' > > is rather fundamental in democracy.  >=20F > It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.8 > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. >=20? > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?   D It's funny that you say that Bill, because Theo already responded to% that point on misc@openbsd yesterday:   # To: Eric Zylstra <ezylstra@mac.com>  cc: misc@openbsd.org# Subject: Re: Darpa now denies it... % Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:34:08 -0600 - From: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>   E > Has no one thought of the wisdom of biting the hand that feeds you?   F My mom taught me never to chew and speak at the same time.  Since whatD I said were just words, opinions that I am entitled to, I do not see$ how there was any "biting" going on.  D Remember "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me..."   D We hear that all the time, except apparently it does not apply to USF professors at UPenn, who react strongly and negatively and assertively> to a couple of little words spoken by a foreigner in a foreignI newspaper.  Words hurt them dearly, and they react.  They break promises.   # > You may consider the money dirty,   D I never considered the money dirty.  DARPA can fund very good people? doing very good work.  I have never associated DARPA with being C neccessarily the real Department of Defence people, since DARPA was E derived from the old ARPA agency, who used to just fund any high-risk A research that needed to be done, and would not otherwise be done. E Yes, they get their money from various strange places, but since they D had a very civilian way of dealing with those doing the research, it= was all OK.  I thought I was dealing with those people -- the E civilians -- and I firmly stipulated complete freedom when I acceptedaF OpenBSD becoming involved in this.  I would not let them set terms forC our source tree becoming polluted with various things they tried toA5 insist on, and they backed down.  Very civil of them.   E But now the situation turns around.  I express my Canadian viewpointsoE in Canadian newspaper, viewpoints which many many people already knowSF I hold; which they know I spend a significant amount of time trying to> educate myself on.  For instance, I know what the concept of aB petro-euro is and the potential consequences to the US economy, doD you?  You might want to find out.  So I talk about these viewpoints,E and voila, the civilian *mask* of DARPA comes off and we're told that B the Air Force (note: not DARPA) has cancelled the thing.  I quote:  E     Penn has been contacted by the Air Force and NO FURTHER COSTS MAYo*     BE INCURRED, effective today, 4/17/03.  C Well, suddenly, their civilian mask came off!  And when it is not aeE civilian operation, I am MORE THAN HAPPY to not take the money, since-A apparently the money comes with rules.  I don't accept money with0B rules.  Whether it is money covered in Iraqi blood or not does notF matter as much as: it is money that has rules.  I firmly stipulated noC rules, and they gave money.  If they want to suddenly impose a rulepE and stop giving money, that is fine.  However, when a reporter calls,aF heck, I will do the same thing I did before: Speak the truth, say what I believe happened."  A (My money rules are: Give us a donation, and I promise we'll keepaC doing cool work to enhance OpenBSD as we see fit.  Thousands of yout have accepted that rule).f  C However, now we have an interesting twist.  Suddenly DARPA says the @ grant is not cancelled, only under review!  From the AP article:  )     DARPA spokeswoman Jan Walker said ...oE     "We're sorry if this review process has been misinterpreted as ang     effort to cancel the work."   E Yet Penn told us Air Force had cancelled it.  Our hotel was cancelledoE by Penn.  Our sole contractor (me) and other employees (3, all in theh@ US) in this were told it is cancelled, by Penn.  A whole pile ofB University of Penn students & researchers (all in the US) that areE funded (without me even knowing what they do) by this grant were toldw they are cancelled, by Penn.  @ > but how many CDs will have to be purchased to offset the loss?   =20tE As many as it takes.  And as many donations as it takes, too.  We did/C 5.5 years of hacking in OpenBSD before we got the grant, and we did   fine.  We'll do fine after this.  " > We've already heard how the hardH > economic times have somehow lead to fewer monetary supporters and more > free-loaders.1  D Yes, and another viewpoint is that people, knowing we had this DARPAE grant, assumed we did not need as much at present, and saved up for a C rainy OpenBSD day.  I don't know the full story, and I am very suret neither do you.e  G > The work that came out of the DARPA grant has just been so great, I'm'4 > really disappointed it has already come to an end.  B Our work will come to an end?  Why would it we stop?  We are totalF addicts, we cannot stop working on this stuff; we are utter raving andE foaming techo-fanatical about designing, building, and improving this.D stuff; we utterly love what we do, and we'll keep doing it even if IE have to pedal a bike all day long to provide power to our cvs server.P  E So, now finally we come to you.  Who are you to speak with such vocal.E 'I know what is going on here' authority on what we will and won't doeA following this?  You're noone.  I haven't got a clue who you are.d> Just a yammering chatter box.  Knows nothing, says a lot, does3 nothing.  You are in the wrong place.  So get lost.s     > bill >=20 > --=20tJ > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wol= vesnF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |E > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20L   --=20o/ John W. Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org)).   http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/pgp.html  6 [The Onion -> Horoscopes] Aquarius: (Jan. 20--Feb. 18)F      Don't just demand the best from yourself and those around you.=209      Demand coffee from yourself and those around you.=20i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:47:12 -0400h2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <20030420014712.GA14651@eisenschmidt.org>l  D Rumor has it that John Eisenschmidt (jweisen@EISENSCHMIDT.ORG) said:  A By the way, a short list of enhancements made to OpenBSD of late:    	-The 'nosuid' flag in mount3 	-chroot jails for all but a few remaining programsn< 	-W^X (stack smashing protection) being rolled in as I write< 	-Replacement of sprintf(), strcpy(), snprintf(), strlcpy(),* 	and strlcat() to prevent buffer overflows  B So whether or not DARPA wants to fund it or not is up to them, but" I'll keep sending money their way.     -- s/ John W. Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org)t.   http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/pgp.html  K "You XML evangelists will be called apologists rather soon." -Theo de Raadtx   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:27:30 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments, Message-ID: <3EA213A2.5030308@tsoft-inc.com>   John Eisenschmidt wrote:  < > Rumor has it that Bill Gunshannon (bill@cs.uofs.edu) said: > + >>In article <3EA18AE2.6090302@vajhoej.dk>,e( >>	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >> >>>Marty Kuhrt wrote:c >>>eD >>>>The professor was _not_ keeping de Raadt from speaking.  FreedomC >>>>of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom from consequences.  l >>>> >>>True. >>>e! >>>But I doubt that is the point.S >>>d/ >>>The freedom to say what you think about your.. >>>countries politics without loosing your job& >>>is rather fundamental in democracy. >>>tF >>It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.8 >>It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. >>? >>Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?e >> > F > It's funny that you say that Bill, because Theo already responded to' > that point on misc@openbsd yesterday:h > % > To: Eric Zylstra <ezylstra@mac.com>b > cc: misc@openbsd.org% > Subject: Re: Darpa now denies it...e' > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:34:08 -0600g/ > From: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org>- > E >>Has no one thought of the wisdom of biting the hand that feeds you?K >> > H > My mom taught me never to chew and speak at the same time.  Since whatF > I said were just words, opinions that I am entitled to, I do not see& > how there was any "biting" going on. > F > Remember "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never
 > hurt me..."e > F > We hear that all the time, except apparently it does not apply to USH > professors at UPenn, who react strongly and negatively and assertively@ > to a couple of little words spoken by a foreigner in a foreignK > newspaper.  Words hurt them dearly, and they react.  They break promises.t >  > # >>You may consider the money dirty,i >> > F > I never considered the money dirty.  DARPA can fund very good peopleA > doing very good work.  I have never associated DARPA with beingnE > neccessarily the real Department of Defence people, since DARPA wasgG > derived from the old ARPA agency, who used to just fund any high-riskeC > research that needed to be done, and would not otherwise be done. G > Yes, they get their money from various strange places, but since theyRF > had a very civilian way of dealing with those doing the research, it? > was all OK.  I thought I was dealing with those people -- the G > civilians -- and I firmly stipulated complete freedom when I accepted)H > OpenBSD becoming involved in this.  I would not let them set terms forE > our source tree becoming polluted with various things they tried to 7 > insist on, and they backed down.  Very civil of them.: > G > But now the situation turns around.  I express my Canadian viewpointsoG > in Canadian newspaper, viewpoints which many many people already knowmH > I hold; which they know I spend a significant amount of time trying to@ > educate myself on.  For instance, I know what the concept of aD > petro-euro is and the potential consequences to the US economy, doF > you?  You might want to find out.  So I talk about these viewpoints,G > and voila, the civilian *mask* of DARPA comes off and we're told thatbD > the Air Force (note: not DARPA) has cancelled the thing.  I quote: > G >     Penn has been contacted by the Air Force and NO FURTHER COSTS MAYc, >     BE INCURRED, effective today, 4/17/03. > E > Well, suddenly, their civilian mask came off!  And when it is not amG > civilian operation, I am MORE THAN HAPPY to not take the money, since C > apparently the money comes with rules.  I don't accept money withrD > rules.  Whether it is money covered in Iraqi blood or not does notH > matter as much as: it is money that has rules.  I firmly stipulated noE > rules, and they gave money.  If they want to suddenly impose a ruletG > and stop giving money, that is fine.  However, when a reporter calls,hH > heck, I will do the same thing I did before: Speak the truth, say what > I believe happened.t > C > (My money rules are: Give us a donation, and I promise we'll keepeE > doing cool work to enhance OpenBSD as we see fit.  Thousands of youu > have accepted that rule).y > E > However, now we have an interesting twist.  Suddenly DARPA says theeB > grant is not cancelled, only under review!  From the AP article: > + >     DARPA spokeswoman Jan Walker said ...nG >     "We're sorry if this review process has been misinterpreted as anc! >     effort to cancel the work."b > G > Yet Penn told us Air Force had cancelled it.  Our hotel was cancelledaG > by Penn.  Our sole contractor (me) and other employees (3, all in theRB > US) in this were told it is cancelled, by Penn.  A whole pile ofD > University of Penn students & researchers (all in the US) that areG > funded (without me even knowing what they do) by this grant were told  > they are cancelled, by Penn. >  > @ >>but how many CDs will have to be purchased to offset the loss? >> >    )G > As many as it takes.  And as many donations as it takes, too.  We didfE > 5.5 years of hacking in OpenBSD before we got the grant, and we didn" > fine.  We'll do fine after this. >  > " >>We've already heard how the hardH >>economic times have somehow lead to fewer monetary supporters and more >>free-loaders.  >> > F > Yes, and another viewpoint is that people, knowing we had this DARPAG > grant, assumed we did not need as much at present, and saved up for alE > rainy OpenBSD day.  I don't know the full story, and I am very suret > neither do you., >  > G >>The work that came out of the DARPA grant has just been so great, I'm 4 >>really disappointed it has already come to an end. >> > D > Our work will come to an end?  Why would it we stop?  We are totalH > addicts, we cannot stop working on this stuff; we are utter raving andG > foaming techo-fanatical about designing, building, and improving thishF > stuff; we utterly love what we do, and we'll keep doing it even if IG > have to pedal a bike all day long to provide power to our cvs server.t > G > So, now finally we come to you.  Who are you to speak with such vocal G > 'I know what is going on here' authority on what we will and won't do C > following this?  You're noone.  I haven't got a clue who you are.i@ > Just a yammering chatter box.  Knows nothing, says a lot, does5 > nothing.  You are in the wrong place.  So get lost.,    Q Well, maybe I'm also a "knows nothing, says a lot, does nothing".  But I think I mL do know a few things.  For one, the 'D' in DARPA stands for 'Defense'.  For P someone to declare that they are not aware of that, someone who is dealing with ) DARPA in any manner, seems a bit strange.v  P As for quoting a rather appropriate proverb, that wasn't very nasty.  Seems the N target of the quote is more than a little touchy.  Also seems that he is more  than a little full of himself.  Q "I don't accept money with rules."  Now there is a rather interesting statement. -N   If you have a job, there are rules on what you do to get paid.  If you're a M vendor, there are rules on what you do to get paid.  Hell, even those on the aH dole have to pay lipservice to some rules.  But now we have this unique P individual who doesn't accept any rules.  Gee, how can I learn this capability? "   I sure could use a new Lear Jet.  M So now he stomps on a benefactor, even as he takes money from them, and they TQ complain.  What to do?  Why, jump up on the soapbox, declare that he didn't know  O who he was dealing with, and claim broken promises when someone decides to use  L some descretion on what they do with their, (not his), money.  When someone P points out that he may not have been very discrete, why, call that person names  and declare him a 'nothing'.  Q Maybe there are good things going into OpenBSD.  Fine.  It in no way changes the s< appearance that this individual is still an elitist asshole.   Dave     -- f4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:59:28 GMTa= From: Michael Austin <maustin@n-o-s-p-a-m-firstdbasource.com>n! Subject: Re: Problem with Proxiesl> Message-ID: <3EA1FECF.43ED949D@n-o-s-p-a-m-firstdbasource.com>   Ferry Bolhar wrote:e >  > Hi folks,o > I > I encountered a strange problem with DECnet proxies. After migrating tonK > RFC1006 (DECnet over TCP/IP), the old, unqualified proxies did not longer, > work. So we defined new ones:i >  > MBA23B::OPER > 	 > becomedi > ! > MBA23B.HOST.MAGWIEN.GV.AT::OPERT > 6 > However, I am unable to remove the old proxy! Trying >   > UAF> REMOVE/PROXY MBA23B::OPER > N > will remove the new one, not the old one! Issiung the command a second time, > I get thei > : > NOSUCHPROXY, no proxy record matches your specification. > L > Can someone tell me what to do here? We have hundrets of these old proxiesL > and I really would like to remove them to keep the proxy database as small > as possible. >   > MTIA and kind greetings, Ferry >  > -- > Ing. Ferry Bolhare' > Municipality of Vienna, Department 14i > A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIAe > E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.ate    4 To determine what your target system is looking for:' reply/enabl=(net,sec)  !!on target nodeo  ) dir target::dir:       !!from source nodet  G Look at the failure carefully and it will tell you which style proxy it  was looking for.  G With DECNet PhaseV there are several proxies for a single box dependingg$ on how you defined them in the form:   add/proxy node::name equ {/d} ' add/proxy node.domain.tld::name equ{/d}T  F and depending on whether or not you have DECNET name resolution turnedC on at the time (I will have to look up the command that disables it30 later...) you may get several different entries.   node::name equ LOCAL:.node::name equv  LOCAL:.node.domain.tld::name equ DOMAIN:....   C I have a network that I actually have all 4 entries for each targetu system.      -- P Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:16:01 -0500S1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> * Subject: Re: system tools cd mount problem' Message-ID: <3EA210F1.FA04AE13@fsi.net>u   Tom Adams wrote: > C > When I try to mount the system tools CD (September 1999) I get a:  > & > MOUNT-F-NONEXPR, nonexistent process > + > error messsage and the CD is not mounted.o > F > I tried two different Compaq System Tools CDs from quarterly updates > and 8 > got the same message.  I mount other CD with problems. > " > Any ideas why this is happening?  G I vaguely remember this being a known bug with a patch available to fixt@ it. Check the patch site for your VMS version(s). I think it hadH something to do with not building the ACP name properly resulting in theC system not finding the ACP process by name, which would explain thea message you're getting.:   -- a David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:34:05 +0200 ( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com>7 Subject: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensenr- Message-ID: <b7smsu$1qtv$1@news.cybercity.dk>:  ' For any budding Jensen users out there.H  J I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controller in myD Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by theJ firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive made allF the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess itL cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  Too bad, asH I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and the 1GB disks are too small these days.    p.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:18:40 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton); Subject: Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensenn- Message-ID: <AHloa.535376$F1.75882@sccrnsc04>r  X In article <b7smsu$1qtv$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> writes:( >For any budding Jensen users out there. >aK >I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controller in my-E >Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by thevK >firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive made all G >the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess it M >cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  Too bad, astI >I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and the 1GBe  >disks are too small these days.  M Isn't there a narrow version of this drive (RZ29B-VA?).  We had a Jensen withJ* that version of the drive, with no issues.  L If that drive will work, ask Dave Turner at hpaq.net/islandco.com.  Maybe he	 has some.-   >- >p.  >a >   A _________________________________________________________________L0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"3   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:17:13 +0000 (UTC)h3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>tX Subject: Why did Digital go broke? (Was: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?)0 Message-ID: <b7s3r8$mki$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  	 Hi Kevin,   I Thanks for replying and sorry for not getting back to you sooner. (My ISPpF didn't show up your reply and I only found it when I was searching forL something else I had written via Google.) I did also get your mail, and haveL no problem with taking this off-line if you'd prefer it. But I'll reply here( first in case anyone else is interested.   > Is this correct?  F Spot on! You understand my plight perfectly, and thank-you for reading& through the other mails that I posted.  . > LMCP does NOT make use of the LM$SS routines  J Given that they're in kernel mode and incrementing/decrementing  some sortC of semaphores I don't think I'll be making much use of them either.a  K But please tell me can I, like LMCP, just access DECdtm's log file directly G in Read-Only mode? I'd also use $getdti and $setdti for wildcarding andlG updates, but use your Log Read routine to retrieve the full participants name.I  K > I guess what you're hoping is that that is anything up to 255 characters.1  L Yes that would be ideal and, as you're aware, 256 was the limit specified onK $declare_rm and $join_rm in the old Functional Spec before it was cut to 32nJ bytes by "RB" from Software-Exploration. (Although I've only ever got LMCP to return under 132 bytes?)e  L Given that $getdti was the only game in town for getting what was written toI the log file back out, I tailored my storage requirements to the 32-bytessL that dti$_transaction_information was able to return. Only to be white-anted? by the *bug* in $getdti that results in the dti$t_part_name and H dti$b_part_name_len fields in the output ITMLST argument being populatedF *not* with the data that has just been retrieved from the log file but9 instead with a straight copy of their counterparts in theiB dti$_search_resolved_state structure of the input SEARCH argument.  L I then asked for a favour from senior VMS people, and even senior Rdb people@ asked for this bug to be fixed, but all we were greeted with wasF intransigence, recalcitrance and outright snootiness from the mothballL moguls. (You must have read their now infamous line about it not being a bug! because you did it deliberately?)   @ So how 'bout it Kevin? Never cut code "deliberately", maybe evenE purposefully or evangelically, that somehow ended up with bugs in it?r  J I won't re-state all of my reasons why the current behaviour of $getdti isH crap (unless you missed them the first time round) but seeing as how youI were probably there when the designs were being engraved in stone and the L code was being cut, others may prefer to hear your version. Is this a bug or4 just something spawned from a hallucinogenic frenzy?  J I have trouble reading BLISS but can you please look at lines 2354 to 2381J in the DTIC_SERVICES.LIS file. Does it make sense to you? "! Copy resourceI manager name from transaction record." That doesn't make sense the .TR isaL the copy of the input item list isn't it? "! Copy resource manager name fromJ DTIB" So which one is it? The Transaction Record or the DTRIB? Or did they? mean Commit Domain? I see evidence of confusion. How 'bout you?h  ) THE VERDICT IS JUST NOT SAFE YOUR HONOUR!n  K Anyway I don't know who's running the asylum in VMS engineering anymore andnL I don't care! I can work around this problem with my own journal file and anI extra four I/O per transaction. No it's not ideal but I don't think we'll@ ever see ideal again :-(  J So what can you do for me Kevin? I'm just about to release a TIP compliantI Transaction Manager for VMS that offers bullet-proof 2PC functionality toAI *any* client/server software that straddles Windows2000 and VMS platformstL regardless of the middleware infrastructure of choice. Customers are free toJ deploy TIER3, TCP/IP sockets, DECnet Task-to-Task, BMQ, MQSeries, DCE/RPC,I COM, Tuxedo or ACMS safe in the knowledge that their W2K (SQL Server) andrD VMS (Rdb, RMS DBMS) are all encased in the ACID properties of a true two-pase commit!  J [On the Windows2000 side I left out Oracle, DB/2, SYBASE and Informix onlyH 'cos my testing to date has all beeen with SQL Server. On the VMS side IH also left out Oracle because I have yet to try your lovely XA Veneer butF I'll talk more about that when I mail you directly.  Imagine, updatingH Oracle9i on the Windows side and Oracle9i on the VMS side using "hotTIP"G from TIER3. Just think of it, MTS/DTC would be helping Oracle9i competeyH against SQL Server on Windows2000. Larry Ellison's gotta want a piece of that!]  J See, call me strange, but I'd expect VMS people to be pretty excited aboutG hotTIP wouldn't you? Are they still having to kiss BEA's arse after themL bungling of RTR and the consequential throat-slitting of BMQ? Are John Apps'D mates still trying to get out of paying for the Itanium port of BMQ?  L Maybe it _is_ time for the Tuxina duopoly to be broken. Now if someone couldK come up with a DECdtm (or MTS/DTC) for Unix then that would probably make aeB lot of money! Have Transaction Monitors like Encedo had their day?   Cheers Richard.   % PS. Has Jim really gone to Microsoft?o  L PPS. Perhaps the VMS COM people would be interested in upgrading to COM+ via' hotTIP? (I got no reply to *my* e-mail)    Message 2 in threadg2 From: Kevin Playford (k.playford@nospamvirgin.net)H Subject: Re: Why did Digital go broke? (Was: Re: VMS Source Listing CD - Table of contents?)r     View this article only Newsgroups: comp.os.vmso Date: 2003-04-16 10:52:40 PSTn     Richard,  D Contrary to what you may believe LMCP does NOT make use of the LM$SS
 routines thati= you have identified as being part of the DTI$SHARE shareable..  H LMCP was part of DECdtm's own log manager facility and is fully aware of what the on-diskL format of the DECdtm transaction log is. It does not need to make use of any services providedeB through DTI$SHARE in order to format up the contents of the DECdtm transaction log.  D It does make use of $GETDTI and $SETDTI itself as part of the repair functionality provided3 by the LMCP command line interface, but that is it.t  I I take it that your beef concerns the fact that GETDTI does not return toa you the full RM participant I name in the transaction information block that it returns to you during at wildcard GETDTI.  J However, I don't believe that that is your only concern. What you'd really  like are functional enhancementsC that let you get at the full RM name that could be stored in the RMo participant chunk of a DECdtmlJ transaction record. I guess what you're hoping is that that is anything up to 255 characters.   Is this correct?   regardsd Kevin Playford Software Exploration Limited   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.217 ************************