1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 20 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 218       Contents:+ Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments  Re: flush arp table 1 Re: How come a WinTel Flash file works under VMS?  Re: HP's SSH server EAK H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyG Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments " Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP StorageWorks packaging2 Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen2 Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen5 Re: VMS to be present at european security conference   [OT] XP 64 for IA 64 ???????????$ Re: [OT] XP 64 for IA 64 ???????????  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:44:44 +1200  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> 4 Subject: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments4 Message-ID: <glroa.11953$mZ4.148487@news.xtra.co.nz>  . "VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BEA@rlghncst964.usps.gov... ) > DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments   H > The U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency halted the contract lessI > than two weeks after The Globe and Mail of Toronto published a story in L > which programmer Theo de Raadt was quoted as saying he was "uncomfortable" > about the funding source.   H So what's the problem? Someone said he's "uncomfortable" with the sourceB of his funding. So the funding was cut. So he must feel a lot more comfortable now.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 03 11:05:04 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: flush arp table) Message-ID: <MUhkjitn1UU8@elias.decus.ch>   h In article <3ea1682e$0$26346$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: > Keith A. Lewis wrote:  >> Serge ZANGHERI <szangheri@grenoble.sema.slb.com> writes in article <3E9FF6DC.2D579F8A@grenoble.sema.slb.com> dated Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:00:12 +0200: >>   >>>Hi,, >>>I want to flush the arp table in UCX 2.0. >>>any ideas ? >>   >>  I >> In today's UCX (5.3), you can delete the ARP entry for a particular IP  >> address with the command: >>  ! >>     $ UCX SET NOARP ip-address  >>  G >> I don't know whether UCX 2.0 is the same, and the only way I know to 9 >> completely clear the table is to restart UCX (or VMS).  > K > He asked the same question in the French VMS forum and my answer has been  > 7 > $ mc ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*"  >  > :-)  > . > The (real) experts there are still laughing!+ > Looks like I need to go back to school...  > , LOL. You picked the DECNET/Plus command. :-)   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 08:31:58 +0200 1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> : Subject: Re: How come a WinTel Flash file works under VMS?4 Message-ID: <3ea23ed8$0$26370$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Elliott Roper wrote: > H > Someone sneaked up to your machine and installed Mark Berryman's FlashG > player or it is built in! Looks like it is time to try Mozilla on VMS  > after all these years.  Q Don't be confused. I DID install Mark's flash player. But, to me, a Flash Player  O is just that, a player in my MOZ client for source code which is on the server  N side. What I learn now is that the player already acts as an engine when I am  the server.   ' Thanks and, to all my c.o.v. friends, a    H A P P Y   E A S T E R    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:32:16 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)  Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK; Message-ID: <3ea25b10.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ) Alder (PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com) wrote: 4 > WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.I > debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:152: DISCONNECT received: No supported  " > authentication methods available   Just guessing...  G Another source of the problem (that I have seen with Process Software's F SSH vs. OpenSSH [which I'd bet PuTTY is based on]) could be that thereG are two formats of public key files, OpenSSH's and SECSH's (which is an E RFC draft). OpenSSH's ssh-keygen has an option (-e) to convert a file B into the other format. I didn't see it in the EAK's description of ssh-keygen, though.   D Another thought, when looking at PuTTY's key generation program: DidB you specify "SSH2 DSA"? Because IMHO that's the only key type that SSH2 works with.   cu,    Martin --  A                      | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer . Microsoft's answer   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deA to OpenVMS is        |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ 5 Windows NT 10.0.     | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:39:52 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b7uf0i22tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  D In article <ealv2b.68d1.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, mrr@reistad says... > T > According to Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>:f > >In article <3e523c53.216104475@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:< > >>On Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:37:21 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>5 > >>>In article <3e515058.155684634@news.eircom.net>, 9 > >>>   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote: L > >>>>On 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >>><snip>  > > K > >No it's not.  You need different hardware or adapters to make electrical 5 > >equipment interoperate in the US and Europe;[snip]  > ? > You need it for operation in the same building even, once you B > start with three-phase equipment. Ever heard of triangle vs star > configuration?   > ? > If you have a big motor you may need an isolation transformer 1 > just to fit it to your particular application.   > N > >Cargo shipping; yeah, if you can get it into a container you're set, exceptH > >that there are still some old ships that aren't container-compatible. > I > And the ships are usually all compatible with the OLD 1970's container, H > but there are endless variations on long, short, half, refrigeration, G > tall, heavy, light, etc. Someone should have introduced this guy that 2 > started containerization to Lego's in his youth.  H Then there are trains.  Ever notice how many containers shipped by rail I are shipped on flatcars with wheels attached?  I guess not many railroad  + stations have container handling equipment.    > -- mrr   --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:39:42 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b7uf0n72tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  D In article <m3smukiowo.fsf@elgin.eder.de>, Andreas.Eder@t-online.de  says... 4 > rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes: > J > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:12:49 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>
 > > wrote: > > K > > >If consistency of shortcuts is so important then I would expect these  B > > >same people to abandon Windows in droves and move to the Mac. > > H > > It is (or at least was, don't know what the situation is nowadays) aD > > significant advantage of Mac OS, just not enough to outweigh its3 > > complete inability to run on standard hardware.  > 2 > But Windows runs on Mac hardware, or doesn't it?  B Windows NT used to run fine on the PowerPC chips.  Due to lack of B interest that support was dropped.  OTOH, with SoftPC it is quite I possible to run Windows on a Mac under MacOS.  The 2K and XP sources are  H available if anyone has the bucks and really wants to run them on a Mac  that badly.   G > > But that nearly happened. Back around the early 90s, Apple actually E > > got a version of their operating system running on PCs. If they'd F > > played their cards right, they could have seized the market beforeI > > Microsoft had Windows 95 ready. Thank God Apple's management were too  > > stupid to see it.  > ( > One more reason not to beliebe in God.  F The current MacOS is open standard and runs fine on older PCs--driver I development has not been at all aggressive so support for the latest and  E greatest isn't there.  What is not open standard is the Quartz GUI.   F NeXTStep is also available for PCs (try ebay--there are usually a few < copies of the final release for sale, usually with a pretty G comprehensive application bundle) however due to lack of interest NeXT   was cancelled.   G > > Ask people who like prune juice why it's not as popular as Coke and H > > I'm sure the answer you'll get is "Coca-Cola's marketing budget" ^.~ >  > And they are right about it.@ > Coke in drinking and McDonalds in eating are probably the best% > equivalent to Windows in computing.  > I much prefer the real stuff.   G I wonder how much of a boost prune juice sales got after Worf declared    it to be a real warrior's drink?  
 > 'Andreas   --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:40:08 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b7uf0l52tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  D In article <1030219042633.19714B@Ives.egh.com>, JOHN@egh.com says.... > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > N > > In article <3e51a916$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net>, rmk@rmkhome.com wrote:O > > >In alt.folklore.computers Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu>  
 > > wrote: > > > I > > >> My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of the N > > >> problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the competenceM > > >> of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any other L > > >> OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.  All it wouldM > > >> take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as root"....  L > > >> And a .bashrc-infecting virus shouldn't be that hard to make, either; > > >> who'd notice it?  > > > F > > >Take a look at the bugtraq mailing list or www.securityfocus.com. > > > & > > >Worst OS - any version of Windows > > >2nd Worst OS - Linux ) > > >And then everything else after that.  > > > K > > >Windows, by the nature of it's GUI interface, even hides problems from  > > >the sysadmin. > > > J > > >Meanwhile, I can still see NIMDA, Code Red, and that latest port 1433M > > >virus still slamming their way around the internet. Windows was designed J > > >for private networks, and then jury-rigged to work with the internet. > > ? > > How do you think Misoft "knows" to distribute their updates I > > with automatic update service?  They have to have backdoors installed @ > > in the users' computers.  Any software that has an auto-dial< > > without an OK from the user, is high security risk meat. > >  > > /BAH > > + > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.  > A > The Windows Update thingy on my home PC (Win2K) has been broken A > for about a month now.  It just hangs for about 5 minutes, then A > tells me I have security set too tight in IE.  (It's set to the E > default level.)  I do have a firewall and NAT router, but it hasn't F > let out a peep, so I don't think it's that.  (I also tried disablingC > the firewall last time this happened, a couple of months ago, and A > it didn't help that time.  Eventually it started working all by < > it self, as far as I could tell, but now it's broke again.  F FWIW, if you go to the Windows Update site and run the troubleshooter F you'll find some recommended settings for IE.  There's also a list of - software known to cause problems with Update.   C > So, would you care to retract your statement that MickySoft knows ' > how to distribute their updates?  ;-)  > > > I guess like most virii, it is poorly writen and very buggy. >  >    --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:40:07 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b7uf0k42tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  D In article <3e52fb54$0$190$75868355@news.frii.net>, rmk@rmkhome.com  says... M > In alt.folklore.computers Russell Wallace <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote:  > J > > Well what sort of background _does_ lead someone to think Unix systemsF > > aren't "real computers" then? It's a term I've only ever seen Unix
 > > guys use.  > J > Look at it a different way. A contemporary Intel x86 IBM AT clone is notJ > a UNIX box. It is a box that was designed to run MSDOS 1.x, and has beenO > updated to the point where it can run UNIX. It does not have the coprocessors L > and multiple busses of workstations, server and minis. It was not designed > as a multi-user machine.  F Any arbitrary PC today has at least 3 processors, one general purpose F and two dedicated.  A typical Dell server will have ten or more.  The G current Intel server chipset has at least 3 buses.  So your contention  ? that "it does not have the coprocessors and multiple buses" is  
 incorrect.  I The IBM PC/XT ran Xenix, whose lineage was traceable to AT&T source, and  D the IBM PC/AT ran SVR2.  So no "updating" has been required to make  Intel based boxen Unix capable.   H As for being designed as a multiuser machine, if the machine can keep a A gigabit pipe full then what difference do the details make?  The  H bottleneck for any of them is the storage, and unless you are running a F quite substantial RAID it is far slower than any of the buses used in  contemporary machines.  J > To me, the only thing interesting about the Intel x86 commodity platformJ > is that it can run UNIX, otherwise it's just an overpriced space heater.  @ There is not supposed to be anything "interesting" about them.  D Personally I like "uninteresting" computers that just sit there and  boringly work.   K > This probably why 12 of the 16 systems on my network are not Intel boxes,  > and why all 16 run UNIX.     --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:40:03 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b7uf0i12tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  7 In article <00A1BAF7.D4960A23@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,  & winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...Y > In article <b2tin001p3s@enews2.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> writes:  > J > >> Meanwhile, I can still see NIMDA, Code Red, and that latest port 1433M > >> virus still slamming their way around the internet. Windows was designed J > >> for private networks, and then jury-rigged to work with the internet. > > C > >Uh, those virii are not relying on anything inherent in Windows.  > > I > >A virus similar to the Port 1433 virus could be written to attack the  E > >System/390 or the AS/400 or VMS just as easily--it depends on the  L > >administrator failing to put a password on the administrator account for H > >SQL Server.  Since (a) SQL Server is not a part of Windows, it is an G > >applications that runs under Windows, and (b) any administrator who  H > >doesn't at least put an effing password on the root account deserves L > >what happens.  Putting _any_ password, even "password" on the SQL Server F > >sa account should block that particular virus.  And the SQL Server K > >installation procedure _does_ give an opportunity to rename the account  J > >and to put a password on it during the initial installation.  Further, K > >for SQL Server to do damage to anything except itself, it has to be run  1 > >at a higher privilege level than is necessary.  > O > But, see, this is why software monoculture is bad.  Even if it's the fault of M > incompetent sysadmins that Port 1433 has SQL/Server listening on it and not P > requiring a password, the fact that there are _so many_ systems like that, andP > so high a percentage of the IT substructure is affected, that it's a bad thing > in itself.  A The undesirability of a software monoculture doesn't really have  G anything to do with Microsoft per se, so it's not really relevant.  If  D God decreed that there never was a Microsoft then some other vendor I would likely establish market dominance after a while and you'd have the   same situation.   K > >NIMDA spreads using Outlook, Outlook Express, and/or IIS, none of which  G > >are fundamental parts of Windows.  Microsoft has issued patches for  L > >their products which address this particular issue and any administrator D > >who has not installed them is remiss.  In any case, NIMDA can be E > >completely blocked by running a mail client other than Outlook or  L > >Outlook Express, a Web browser other than Internet Explorer, and using a  > >Web server other than IIS.  > E > Microsoft claimed in court, at length, than Internet Explorer was a M > fundamental part of the operating system.  Who should we believe about that  > - them or you?  9 Why do you suddenly want to believe them on _this_ issue?   F In any case, they never claimed that Outlook or IIS was a part of the  OS.   H > >Code Red exploits a known vulnerability in IIS, for which there is a J > >patch available.  Again, this is not anything fundamental to Windows.   > J > Only kind of.  Windows doesn't easily enforce a distinction between codeL > and data space - as VMS does - so buffer overflow vulnerabilities can moreH > easily introduce executable code.  In VMS, it's likelier that a bufferK > overflow will result in an access violation, which does allow a denial of H > service attack but keeps VMS boxes from participating in spreading theB > virus further, or from being compromised with no external trace.  F This may be the case, however an undetected buffer overflow is a bug, F and a bug in privileged code is always undesirable no matter what the  OS.   I > >And for "uninformed users", there is no excuse whatsoever to not keep  J > >your patches current--Windows annoys the Hell out of you with messages = > >about needing patches any time there is a patch available.  > F > People ill-advisedly running 24x7 mission-critical infrastructure on8 > Windows have trouble shutting down to install patches.  B So when did IIS or Outlook or Outlook Express become part of 24x7 C mission-critical infrastructure?  And why is 24x7 mission-critical  B infrastructure not properly firewalled?  And why did the database I administrator on this 24x7 mission-critical infrastructure not bother to  I put a password on the administrative account on his SQL servers?  And if  A this 24x7 mission-critical infrastructure can't support a phased  2 deployment then what happens when it loses a node?  K > >There are problems with Windows, but blame it for what it does, not for  ) > >what applications running under it do.  > K > I blame Microsoft in general, but Windows both has vulnerabilities of its : > own and enables vulnerabilities in application software.  H Every OS has vulnerabilities.  If you think they don't you are deluding 	 yourself.   	 > -- Alan  > Q > =============================================================================== 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 O >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 Q > ===============================================================================  >  >    --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:39:31 -0400 ( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>P Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly, Message-ID: <b7uf0o82tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>  0 In article <3E52B9FA.E66A3F53@vl.videotron.ca>, ' jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca says...  > Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:% > > athena news letters from 84 & 85: B > > http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/ >  > P > While it is obvious from those newsletters that Athena was started in the veryL > early 1980s, I saw nothing in those newsletters about the development of aN > standard GUI (X-windows). In fact, they consider VT241s as graphic terminalsX > (not quite a GUI, just a terminal able to display SIXEL, REGIS or Textronix graphics). > N > Interestingly, it talks about VAXstation 100s in 1984 time frame. Was that a > Microvax I ? > P > At what year did Digtal release the VWS software ? I was under the impression ; > That VWS was released because there was no standard yet.   >  > Also one big question: > O > There are a few features of X which seem to be common with Windows 3.1. Did X - > inspire itself from Windwos or vice-versa ?   H I played with an IBM RT with X when the 286 was still the hot processor 9 in PCs, well before the utility of Windows exceeded zero.    --   -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 01:54:09 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments2 Message-ID: <HnednWMWSPOeqz-jXTWcog@metrocast.net>  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message & news:3EA213A2.5030308@tsoft-inc.com...   ...   C > Well, maybe I'm also a "knows nothing, says a lot, does nothing".   , In this case, at least, that seems possible.     But I think I H > do know a few things.  For one, the 'D' in DARPA stands for 'Defense'.   No shit.     For L > someone to declare that they are not aware of that, someone who is dealing with+ > DARPA in any manner, seems a bit strange.   I He didn't say he wasn't aware of that, just that the people *he* had been K dealing with were civilians (and as long as the military kept away from him  he could deal with that).    > F > As for quoting a rather appropriate proverb, that wasn't very nasty.	 Seems the J > target of the quote is more than a little touchy.  Also seems that he is more  > than a little full of himself.  F No, he just isn't inclined to compromise his principles, nor shy aboutL saying why.  And since he seems perfectly willing to accept the consequences of this, more power to him.    > G > "I don't accept money with rules."  Now there is a rather interesting 
 statement.  $ Seems pretty straight-forward to me.  B >   If you have a job, there are rules on what you do to get paid.  L Not in his case:  if you bothered to read what he said, what he agreed to beF paid for was precisely what he would have been doing anyway - i.e., no change, no rules.   
   If you're a J > vendor, there are rules on what you do to get paid.  Hell, even those on the I > dole have to pay lipservice to some rules.  But now we have this unique E > individual who doesn't accept any rules.  Gee, how can I learn this  capability?   K You could learn it from him.  Of course, you'd have to be doing something - H and be good enough at it - that someone wanted to help you accomplish by. funding it, but he seems to have managed that.  $ >   I sure could use a new Lear Jet. > I > So now he stomps on a benefactor, even as he takes money from them, and  theyF > complain.  What to do?  Why, jump up on the soapbox, declare that he didn't know  > who he was dealing with,  H As you will note above, he knew full well whom he was dealing with:  theK cancellation came from the people *they* were dealing with (actually, since A he was directly dealing with UPenn, even one more level removed).   6  and claim broken promises when someone decides to use? > some descretion on what they do with their, (not his), money.   G Well, when someone withdraws scheduled support without reasonable cause L (what Theo said had exactly zero relevance to the work they were funding himJ to do), what would *you* call it - especially when it disrupts commitments
 already made?      When someoneK > points out that he may not have been very discrete, why, call that person  names  > and declare him a 'nothing'.  K The person was suggesting that he *should* have been discrete, and that had H he realized what his statements might cause he might not have made them.G His response was that he damn well would have made them anyway, because 9 toeing any party line was in no way part of his contract.    > F > Maybe there are good things going into OpenBSD.  Fine.  It in no way changes the > > appearance that this individual is still an elitist asshole.  H There are a great many assholes in the world, Dave - many of them in theH current Administration who are far more objectionable and dangerous.  AtH least Theo has his head on straight and his priorities clear - and stillB manages to work on the things he wants to without compromising hisC principles, which you may consider elitist but I consider laudable.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:42:11 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments/ Message-ID: <3EA24112.54DC3C74@vl.videotron.ca>    David Froble wrote: R > "I don't accept money with rules."  Now there is a rather interesting statement.C >   If you have a job, there are rules on what you do to get paid.    L If you are employed by company X, then whenever you are at their premises orL representing them, you have to reflect the corporate policies. Deviation can	 be fatal.   H However, if you are a volunteer who gets a grant in order to continue toJ produce a piece of software,  you are never "working for them". Should you? have to shut up and be prevented from voicing personal views ?    F I realise that artists who have publicly disagreed with the current USK government have seen threaths or have lost jobs because of that. But before I the current administration, this was not an issue, and it still is not an 6 issue outside of the USA (in the free world at least).  G Outside of the USA, it is still considered patriotic to disagree with a L government policy and voice those disagreements. Remmeber that Canada is nowJ considered an ennemy of the USA, perhaps not as bad as France, but your USN ambassador to Canada has given us plenty of public "warnings" that there wouldM be consequences because Canada disagred with the illegal US invasion of Iraq.   N US Planes carrying troups have stopped refueling at Gander and instead stop atL a less convenient Bangor Maine location. So it is no surprise that a defenceH agency would have cut funding to a canadian, especially if the later hasM expressed disagreement with current USA policy. Heck, your president has even M cancelled his upcoming visit to Canada.  (this is no surprise since there are N very few places he can go in the world where he won't have huge demonstrationsH against him and tremendous security headhaches. One will have to see howM things happen at the next G8 meeting in Evian FRANCE ! (I wonder if Bush will 4 find some excuse not to go and send Powell instead).    N With the Voice of Amerika (aka: CNN) still claiming over 70% approval ratings,G those outside of the USA can only assume that the american public truly M supports all those measures that alienate the USA allies. (or former allies). E It doesn't matter if those polls are slanted or not. It gives the USA M administration some legitimacy for its actions and policies towards americans  and towards other countries.  M My only question is whether the democrats in the USA will wake up and win the J next election and immediatly change the polcies that have isolated the USAI from the rest of the world. Perhaps then, funding for such projects would I resume. If Bush Jr stays in office, it will mean that he has succeeded in N keeping the agenda on the wars,m terrorism and fears of "homeland security" toL avoid talking about the USA ecomomy, and that means that things will get far0 worse in terms of funding and freedom of speech.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:00:01 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments/ Message-ID: <3EA24540.A0C24E40@vl.videotron.ca>    Bill Todd wrote:I > Well, when someone withdraws scheduled support without reasonable cause N > (what Theo said had exactly zero relevance to the work they were funding himL > to do), what would *you* call it - especially when it disrupts commitments > already made?   G Sorry, but the USA government, under the guise of national security and B "homeland security" has taken many "liberties" to act as it wants,H disregarding behavious acceptable to the rest of the world.  So it is noM surprise that they would take such actions without any logical justification.   L But in the grand scheme of things, cutting funding because someone expressedL his opinions is nowhere near the top of the list of illogical things done byN the USA since 9-11. Ask your government how many people have been sent to jailL upon landing in the USA, instead of acceptable procedures to simply send theL passenger pack to the original departture point. As your government how manyN people never exited INS offices because they were sent to jail upon presentingJ themselves to the office and some civil servant deciding that one i wasn'tG dotted on a form, warranting the person be treated as a terrorist. (for I instance, a canadian citizen with working permits, holding a VP job for a  silicon valley database firm).  J Ask your government while people asking for VISAs to the USA are now beingN forced to sign a waiver that essentially states that they give up the right toM due legal process if the government decides to deport them. Ask them why they K deported a canadian citizen IN TRANSIT at JFK on his way back to canada: he K was deported to Syria even though he had a canadian passport, and Syria was V told to send him to prison because the USA suspected he had once met with a terrorist.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:48:11 +1200  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> < Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments4 Message-ID: <Kgsoa.12098$mZ4.149324@news.xtra.co.nz>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3EA24112.54DC3C74@vl.videotron.ca...  > David Froble wrote: I > > "I don't accept money with rules."  Now there is a rather interesting 
 statement.D > >   If you have a job, there are rules on what you do to get paid. > J > However, if you are a volunteer who gets a grant in order to continue toA > produce a piece of software,  you are never "working for them".   > A bit of a moot point. If you are accepting the money in order< to keep working on your favorite project - then yes, you are7 working for whoever pays the money even though you like = working on that project yourself. If you don't need/want that < funding - don't take it. If you do accept it and then object@ to the policies of the grantor - is the grantor under obligation7 to keep funding you even if you two are now in a strong 4 disagreement? If so, why? Remember - you claimed you: are not working for the grantor so there is no contractual< obligation on either part (except what may have been written< in the terms of the grant but I gather that's not a question
 in this case)   8 The original statement said, in part, that the recipient8 of that grant was "uncomfortable" about it. So, perhaps,& it was a favor to terminate the grant?   > Should you@ > have to shut up and be prevented from voicing personal views ?  7 No. Should the grantor have to shut up and be preventedo; from voicing it's views or excersice his/her/it's judgementl! as to how to allocate that grant?D   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 05:40:54 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments/ Message-ID: <3EA26AED.A81818FF@vl.videotron.ca>o  	 AG wrote:m> > funding - don't take it. If you do accept it and then objectB > to the policies of the grantor - is the grantor under obligation9 > to keep funding you even if you two are now in a strongc > disagreement?t  $ No. And on that point you are right.  L However, if the funder claims it believes in  freedom of speech and opinion,N but when you exercise that freedom, the funder turns around and tells you thatF because you did, you are no longer funded, then something looks fishy.  L Also let say I am being finded to work on some billing software. I express aK strong preference for white chocolate, against my benefactor's opinion thatiG dark chocolate is best.  Since my work being funded is unrelated to thedM difference in opinions, is it really mature/honest for the benefactor to pulln* the funding because of that disagreement ?  K Now, if I had expressed an opinion that billing softare should allow hidden-L transactions to help executives hide subsidiaries etc, then I can understandK the benefactor cutting funding because they would not want to be associatedsL with someome who would want to allow criminal activity/falsified accounting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:41:39 +0200l6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments) Message-ID: <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>w   Bill Gunshannon wrote:G  > It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.s9  > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity.n  >@  > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?  & It has very much to do with democracy.  : If people are not allowed to say what they think about the9 war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts to4; sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war.R  0 Lots of critical intellectual had very difficult0 getting a job, because they stated their opinion about the communist government.i  2 Not a very good model for how to do things, if you ask me.>  / In a free society you are allowed to speak yourr, political views without consequences (within1 certain limitatations given by the law ofcourse).   1 It is also well-known that you get the wealthiest 0 socity by having the jobs done by those with the- best skills instead of those popular with thet0 government (that was another huge problem in the old east block).   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2003 13:30:48 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <b7u7e8$4g4n5$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>,h& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > > It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.: > > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. > >-A > > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?m > ( > It has very much to do with democracy. > < > If people are not allowed to say what they think about the; > war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts too= > sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war.l  J Who lost their job?  Was Theo an employee of the US DOD (who funds DARPA)?H What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extraF money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but ID think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll findH someone else who will appreciate the favor."  Actually, both of them areH merely making expressions.  One is just as much about free speech as theF other.  There is no requirement for DARPA to fund the OpenBSD Project.I They offered the help and were insulted in return.  The funding will now,eI as it should, go somewhere else to someone who will appreciate the favor.7I Work on secure OSes at government expense will not stop.  Look at the NSANB Secure Linux Project (most of which could probably be conceptuallyF incorporated into the BSD's as well).  The only thing that is going to0 change is who gets the grant money for the work.   > 2 > Lots of critical intellectual had very difficult2 > getting a job, because they stated their opinion! > about the communist government.   G But, we're not talking about a job with a the party with the money.  We)G are talking about a favor that was repiad with insults.  One is free tohI hold and express any opinion they wish.  But it is unreasonable to expect K that if you insult someone who is doing you a favor that they will continue  to do you favors.    > 4 > Not a very good model for how to do things, if you	 > ask me.   F I agree.  If you think the money from DARPA is "Iraq blood money" then* you are a hypocrit if you still accept it.   > 1 > In a free society you are allowed to speak yourm. > political views without consequences (within3 > certain limitatations given by the law ofcourse).- >-  F That's not actually true.  Everything we do has consequences.  And oneG must be prepared to accept them if they shoose to take actions that areoF likely to be unfavorably received.  I don't believe in the speed limitI on the highways.  I drive cars capable of handling higher speeds.  But if E I choose to make my statement (under freedom of speech/expression) byTH exceeding that speed limit, then I must be prepared to be stopped, cited. and fined.  The constitution not withstanding.  T3 > It is also well-known that you get the wealthiest 2 > socity by having the jobs done by those with the/ > best skills instead of those popular with thel2 > government (that was another huge problem in the > old east block).  B One is not mutually exclusive of the other.  I have worked for theF government (and even DOD) in the past and known many extremely skilledH persons.  It is also not germane to the argument.  Actually, DARPA couldJ have taken the money and hired the best people they could find,  And, keptH the results of their work private.  Instead, they chose to try to funnelG some of that money to the open source community, which repaid the favoruF with insults.  I would think to any reasonable person, the outcome was obvious.   bill   -- xJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2003 15:36:09 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <20030420153609.7886.qmail@nym.alias.net>t  = On 20 Apr 2003, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: * >In article <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>,' >	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:o >> Bill Gunshannon wrote:oI >> > It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech. ; >> > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity.: >> >B >> > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."? >> -) >> It has very much to do with democracy.a >> e= >> If people are not allowed to say what they think about thes< >> war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts to> >> sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war.  L A little extreme perhaps, but I'd like to see evidence that this was not howL the situation came about. Isn't information on how these decisions are taken publically available?   G >  <snip>                          ...  The only thing that is going to 1 >change is who gets the grant money for the work.h  H The Register is rather scathing about what might be done with the money.  7 <URL:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/30333.html>w  3 >> Lots of critical intellectual had very difficultk3 >> getting a job, because they stated their opinionS" >> about the communist government. >dH >But, we're not talking about a job with a the party with the money.  WeH >are talking about a favor that was repiad with insults.  One is free toJ >hold and express any opinion they wish.  But it is unreasonable to expectL >that if you insult someone who is doing you a favor that they will continue >to do you favors.  < Here's the original UPenn announcement of the funding award,  ? <URL:http://www.seas.upenn.edu/whatsnew/computer-security.html>    This wasn't just for OpenBSD.o  2 >> In a free society you are allowed to speak your/ >> political views without consequences (withinm5 >> certain limitatations given by the law of course).a  G >That's not actually true.  Everything we do has consequences.  And oneGH >must be prepared to accept them if they choose to take actions that are# >likely to be unfavorably received.   F Should your political views about certain aspects of government policyL give the government the right to act in a discriminatory manner towards you?  L I thought that there were laws against that. Particularly as it is UPenn whoK are being penalised for statements made by a third party outside the United  States.r   <snip>  : Anyway, the original Globe & Mail article can be found at,  Q <URL:http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030406.whack46/GTStory>t  N Looks like Theo has a big mouth and a predeliction for seeing how many feet heO can fit in it. It isn't easy to be sympathetic towards him when he doesn't seemuD to see any distinction between DARPA and the current administration.  L ZDNet mentions the security improvements that the funding helped create at,   0 <URL:http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-996584.html>  - And the quote from /. that made me chuckle...-  J "Theo's legendary lack of tact and people-skills has sunk him... again. HeE  can fork NetBSD and come out on top, he can fork OpenSSH and win the J  trademark dispute, he can fork IPfilter after alienating Darren Reed... IG  don't think he can fork the US Government. (Tho it would be a lot moret"  stable and secure if he did... )"    K I suppose if the grant objectives have been met, then there is no reason to L question cancellation of the funding. OTOH, you'd expect that UPenn would be? able to propose further improvements before funding was pulled.u  M Funny though... all those improvements listed on ZDNet sound rather familiar.   L John, want to make an OS security checklist with feature availability dates?; That would make a nice advert. (PS still received no mail).b     Doc. -- m: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:53:40 +0200r6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments) Message-ID: <3EA2DEA4.5090407@vajhoej.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:,  > In article <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>,)  > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:o  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote:pH  >>>It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.:  >>>It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity.  >>>A  >>>Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?l  >> )  >>It has very much to do with democracy.t  >>a=  >>If people are not allowed to say what they think about thet<  >>war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts to>  >>sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war.  >  > Who lost their job?  < As far as I understand it then the guy in question did loose( his job. I assume: no funding => no job.  K  > What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extraoI  > money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but IoG  > think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll findt/  > someone else who will appreciate the favor."a  F This is exactly how the old east block worked. You have two applicantsH for a job as manager for a factory, one who know about the what is being6 done at the factory but also is in opposition, and oneG that is less qualified but has the rigth opinions, and you pick the one  with the "correct" opinions.  A The result was economic disaster and a regime that people did nott want to live under.   * I would expect any government that either:     - respect democracy      - wants efficiency? to hire the best man for the job - no matter what his politicala
 opinions are.e  A That job was about operating system security. What the guy thinks3* about the war in Iraq is not job relevant.  E   >                                        Actually, both of them areo  > merely making expressions.g  ? Cutting funds to a project because you disagree with views from0< a project member is a little more than making an expression.  G  >       There is no requirement for DARPA to fund the OpenBSD Project.   
 That is true.t  = But I would expect them to fund the projects they think makesn: the biggest benefits for the US defense/country and not to? fund projects whose team members support current US government.a  3  >>Lots of critical intellectual had very difficult 3  >>getting a job, because they stated their opinion "  >>about the communist government.  >J  > But, we're not talking about a job with a the party with the money.  WeJ  > are talking about a favor that was repiad with insults.  One is free toL  > hold and express any opinion they wish.  But it is unreasonable to expectF  > that if you insult someone who is doing you a favor that they will  continue  > to do you favors.  ? If you think DARPA funding is intended to be granted as favourseD and that is is acceptable for a government to use tax payer money asE favours to people supporting its politics then I guess you are rigth.V  ; That is what I consider old east block way of doing things.o  2  >>In a free society you are allowed to speak your/  >>political views without consequences (within 4  >>certain limitatations given by the law ofcourse).  >I  > That's not actually true.  Everything we do has consequences.  And one J  > must be prepared to accept them if they shoose to take actions that areI  > likely to be unfavorably received.  I don't believe in the speed limit8L  > on the highways.  I drive cars capable of handling higher speeds.  But ifH  > I choose to make my statement (under freedom of speech/expression) byK  > exceeding that speed limit, then I must be prepared to be stopped, cited 
  > and fined.w  . Yes. Because that is the law. And you know it.   So that is a very poor analogy.   4 It would be a much better analogy, if your boss came3 to you and said that you would not get any increaseb1 in salary, because he did not like your political- views you had expressed.  : My guess is that you would not consider that fair. Because5 your political opinions and activities are not of his-	 business.   4  >>It is also well-known that you get the wealthiest3  >>socity by having the jobs done by those with theL0  >>best skills instead of those popular with the3  >>government (that was another huge problem in they  >>old east block).p  >.  > One is not mutually exclusive of the other.  	 Nonsense.   9 I do not belive there are any fields where if you want tos> hire the 100 best, then all 100 will be of a certain political opinion.  C So you need to decide whether you want the 100 absolute best or the  100 best among those you like.  H  >                                                 I have worked for theI  > government (and even DOD) in the past and known many extremely skilledS  > persons.l  G Yes. Noone are arguing that. Just as that there are very skilled peopledF that are at the left, then there are also very skilled people that are
 at the rigth.,  9 I am not american, so I do not know whether the politicala: distribution among US academia is different from the US asB a whole. But if it is the same, then 25% republican, 25% democrats5 and 50% do not care sounds as as good a guess as any.c   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 08:12:47 GMTr6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP 4 Message-ID: <3Esoa.141416$UR.1261332@news.chello.at>  H In article <3e960ccd.89093289@news>, rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz writes:) >Followed the thread below with interest.,C >We suffer the same problems as Don, unsolicited e-mail arrives fort >folk who have long gone.n8 >There's no entry in the UAF or the Mail files for them. >eE >Now I'm guessing here 'cause I'm not an SMTP guru, but it seems SMTP,A >Mail must make it past the SMTP handler in order to determine ifa >there's a valid VMS Mail User?   M Not for MX. MX uses the VMSmail database in the SMTP_SERVER agent and rejects J mail to nonexistant users immediately (and does not suck them in, find outK whether the user exists, then must find a way how to bounce the mail back).h  H Seems that other mailers should reduce the gap after a long time falling# behind, but haven't done so far ;-)    -- , Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 08:40:22 GMTc6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP 4 Message-ID: <W1toa.141752$UR.1261332@news.chello.at>  b In article <3E961C96.6F5C2B4A@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:# >rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:rF >> Gets recycled round and round. And, like Don I'd like to be able toH >> make my SMTP be a bit less tolerant of this and just bin it. Why tell6 >> the nonsensical sender there's no one of that name?  N There are two options. Reject (or accept and return) it, or simply discard it.  K I prefer the former (because 1. I have no problems letting the sender know, I that the user does not exist and 2. rejecting mails reduces traffic on myeG internet link [for which I have to pay] while accepting/returning mails O increases the traffic and makes unneccessary problems with undeliverable mails)   J >It is good internet etiquette to send back non-delivery reports. Now, oneO >could simply send back header information (subjevt, sender, destination, date)u >instead of the whole contents.w  E In MX you can request (in the MUA) a similar behaviour with a logicalf  ? $ DEFINE MX_VMSMAIL_DSN_CONTROL "NOTIFY=FAILURE RETURN=HEADERS"s  J but as a MTA, MX only follows the requested (by the remote MUA) behaviour.I So, most likely, you will return all of the mail (because it is default).h  N It would be nice, if a later version of MX would offer DSN override options...   -- l Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERv% Network and OpenVMS system specialistf E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:25:34 +0000 (UTC)h+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)n+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPb+ Message-ID: <b7uaku$gjo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>i  m In article <p3%na.118184$UR.1042586@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:hV >In article <3E93101E.68F91B5A@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:! >>I'm running TCPIP Services 5.1.T >eL >You know that V5.3 ECO 2 is current, with V5.4 expected to come in Q4 (withM >VMS V7.3-2) which brings some more required goodies (like >10K BG devices) ?d > H >>50% of all the mail I receive is directed to uses at my domain that do >>not exist. >.< >No problem with the right mailserver on the right place ;-) >eE >>This uses up a lot of resources processing the return message, etc.=> >>Since 99% of it is SPAM, the return message (your message isI >>undeliverable) cannot be delivered, so SMTP waits and tries it again upyF >>to the limit I have set for retries (5). I don't want to change thatI >>number, since I'd like to continue retrying when required while sending= >>out my legitimate mail.= >=G >Return messages is the wrong plan. Reject messages is the better plan.l >eD >>Is there any other way to just drop mail addressed to non-existentH >>users? I don't even want to TRY to let them know that the user doesn'tG >>exist. I'm using my SMTP.CONFIG file for other filtering, but I don'tM >>see a way to do it there.f >oB >I recommend a SMTP server which rejects mails on various criteria  M Unfortunately some of these measures will block way too much legitimate mail.n      # >(1. Realtime Blackhole Lists RBL,    N MAPS lists - RBL, RSS and DUL are fairly conservative as are a number of other> blacklists. However many other lists are much more agressive. K You need to carefully access the lists you use to get the right balance of i4 rejecting spam as against rejecting legitimate mail.    $ >2. Unresolvable sender domain names  N Probably not a good idea - there are too many legitimate misconfigured systems out there. R   >3. explicit IP addresses   . >4. unmatches HELO/EHLO nodenames with used IP	 address, i  > Too many legitimate systems send the wrong HELO/EHLO nodename.I Also rejecting mail based on this is specifically disallowed by the RFCs.l     "eN The HELO receiver MAY verify that the HELO parameter really corresponds to theK IP address of the sender. However, the receiver MUST NOT refuse to accept ap> message, even if the sender's HELO command fails verification.   "i    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    @ >5. explicit MAIL FROM: addresses 6. explicit RCPT TO: addressesE >7. non-existant RCPT TO: addresses, 8. explicit From: address items,oJ >9. explicit To: address items, 10. explicit Subject: items, 11. heuristicH >filters like how does an AOL address really look like, and so on), sitsI >directly on the internet (to reject mails instead of accept&return), has@O >the whole userdatabase (this one is my opinion, your's is obviously different,AN >but if all the features of the smtp server work, only a very small percentageO >of the SPAMs come to this stage, so the information of the userdatabase to the I >outside is not that problem but YMMV) and does also scan for virii/worms / >and return, disinfect and/or quarantine mails.o >c >MX (with SOPHOS) can do it.' >PMDF (with SOPHOS) probably can do it.A1 >TCPIP SMTP (with SOPHOS) can only do part of it.'3 >TCPware SMTP (with SOPHOS) can only do part of it.h >hH >I'm pretty sure, you're SOL for quite some more time with TCPIP SMTP... >f >--  >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER& >Network and OpenVMS system specialist >E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atrG >A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2003 09:42:47 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)p+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP 3 Message-ID: <CqN5udG5mCCK@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  Y In article <b7uaku$gjo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes: o > In article <p3%na.118184$UR.1042586@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:t  C >>I recommend a SMTP server which rejects mails on various criteriah > O > Unfortunately some of these measures will block way too much legitimate mail.y  F That depends entirely on the (necessarily local) meaning of the terms:   	"too much"o   	"legitimate mail"  H Even when it comes to prospective customers, I am less than enthusiasticJ about those who are incompetent to figure out an alternate contact method.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:54:13 +0000 (UTC)d+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)n+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPa+ Message-ID: <b7ufr5$h57$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <CqN5udG5mCCK@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: Z >In article <b7uaku$gjo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:p >> In article <p3%na.118184$UR.1042586@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >eD >>>I recommend a SMTP server which rejects mails on various criteria >> hP >> Unfortunately some of these measures will block way too much legitimate mail. > G >That depends entirely on the (necessarily local) meaning of the terms:t >  >	"too much" >i >	"legitimate mail"m >yI >Even when it comes to prospective customers, I am less than enthusiasticsK >about those who are incompetent to figure out an alternate contact method.h  7 Of course. It's up to you what mail you want to accept.iJ Unfortunately there are a lot of broken and misconfigured mailers (and DNSL servers) out on the Internet. If you are happy to be turning away customers K just because the mail system they are sending through is misconfigured thenr fine thats your decision.i  M Also as I pointed out one of the proposed rejection criteria (rejecting mail sF based on the HELO/EHLO parameter) is explicitly prohibited by RFC 1123  + http://www.sendmail.org/rfc/1123.html#5.2.5   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:53:48 GMTs4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) Subject: StorageWorks packaging / Message-ID: <gTvoa.537966$3D1.295682@sccrnsc01>a  X In article <b7tmie$2s4v$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> writes: >Bradford J. Hamilton wrote: <snip>D >> Isn't there a narrow version of this drive (RZ29B-VA?).  We had a >> Jensen with- >> that version of the drive, with no issues.- >> >-E >Or maybe it is the RZ29B-E which I think is without the storageworkse >packaging.v  N BTW - the "packaging" is easy enough to remove.  Four screws, the plastic caseN pops off, be careful about removing the ribbon cable, and voila!  You might be+ able to find more of the "VA" than the "E".e <snip>  A _________________________________________________________________d0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:33:45 +0200 ( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com>; Subject: Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen - Message-ID: <b7tmie$2s4v$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Bradford J. Hamilton wrote: > > In article <b7smsu$1qtv$1@news.cybercity.dk>, "Philip Lewis" > <philip@nospam.com> writes:e* >> For any budding Jensen users out there. >>G >> I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controllert >> in myG >> Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by thenD >> firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive >> made alltF >> the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess >> ithG >> cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  TooF
 >> bad, asG >> I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and thet >> 1GB" >> disks are too small these days. >sC > Isn't there a narrow version of this drive (RZ29B-VA?).  We had ao
 > Jensen withd, > that version of the drive, with no issues. >c  D Or maybe it is the RZ29B-E which I think is without the storageworks
 packaging.  D > If that drive will work, ask Dave Turner at hpaq.net/islandco.com.
 > Maybe he > has some.S >o   I Have dropped him an email.   >> >> p.e >> >> >iC > _________________________________________________________________p0 > Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own"0 > bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm "Lose the MAPS"   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:40:59 +0000 (UTC)i. From: John Forkosh <john@SeeSigForAddress.com>; Subject: Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - JensenV, Message-ID: <b7ubhr$r77$2@reader1.panix.com>  ' Philip Lewis <philip@nospam.com> wrote:e : Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:m. : > "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> writes:, : >> For any budding Jensen users out there. : >>I : >> I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controllerd
 : >> in myI : >> Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by thedF : >> firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive
 : >> made all H : >> the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess : >> iteI : >> cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  Tooo : >> bad, asI : >> I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and the  : >> 1GB$ : >> disks are too small these days. : >lE : > Isn't there a narrow version of this drive (RZ29B-VA?).  We had ah : > Jensen witht. : > that version of the drive, with no issues. : >.  F : Or maybe it is the RZ29B-E which I think is without the storageworks : packaging.  F : > If that drive will work, ask Dave Turner at hpaq.net/islandco.com. : > Maybe he
 : > has some.e : >-   : I Have dropped him an email.  5 If you have no philosophical objection, try eBay too.s9 You can typically find them real cheap.  And, by the way,s3 in addition to searching on rz29* remember that thef6 Seagate designation for these drives is st15150n (that3 final "n" for the "narrow" 50-pin variety).  You'll 7 find even more of them as st15150n's, and they're oftenl$ even cheaper than "labelled" rz29's.  2 Also, by the way, very nice documentation is still provided by Seagate at:      www.seagate.com/support/disc/specs/scsi/st15150n.html -- d> John Forkosh  ( mailto:  j@f.com  where j=john and f=forkosh )   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:41:14 +0000 (UTC)o3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>h> Subject: Re: VMS to be present at european security conference0 Message-ID: <b7ubi9$p6e$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  C And what are these VMS people saying about IPsec? Hold your breath?k   Regards Richard Maher.  ; JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagef) news:3E9E363E.21D2DD3D@vl.videotron.ca...rI > Got thin in the mail from the ALL-IN-1 folks. (took a lot of processing  sincet% > they sent it as a WORD document :-)o >e >eJ > 2 weeks to go before Infosecurity Europe 2003 opens its doors once again toD > over 10,000 buyers and sellers in IT Security. Infosecurity Europe providesI > the best place for sourcing opportunities, information updates and freeeK > educational forums, tackling the key technology issues set to affect yourf	 business.m > = > There will be a strong OpenVMS presence there, and the ACME  (AuthenticationTK > and Credential Management Extensions) team plan a demonstration of  a newhK > development from Reading - an LDAP ACME server that stores authenticationeB > information in the HP Enterprise Directory. Imagine storing yourL > organization's OpenVMS authentication data in one secure directory, ratherL > than maintaining separate authentication information for each system. This new H > server is not available yet,  but will  be available as an  EAK (EarlyK > Adopters' Kit)  later this year. If you want to take part in its earliest H > public airing, come to Infosecurity. For more information contact Dave Holt..   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:04:16 +0200h4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>) Subject: [OT] XP 64 for IA 64 ???????????u& Message-ID: <3EA24670.7000802@Free.fr>   Whatsakindajoke?  8 > http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml >  > In order to help us track its use, please download through the link that represents the operating system on which you will use or mostly use Filemon.rM > Note that the zip files are identical, and Filemon runs on either platform.o > C > Download Filemon (x86- 76KB) - you plan on using Filemon on Win9xoJ > Download Filemon (x86 - 76KB) - you plan on using Filemon on WinNT/2K/XP3 > Download Filemon (XP 64-bit Edition/IA64 -146KB )u  . There are IA64 boxes running XP on the market?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:53:36 +0200t6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>- Subject: Re: [OT] XP 64 for IA 64 ??????????? ) Message-ID: <3EA2DEA0.8030406@vajhoej.dk>    Didier Morandi wrote:   > Whatsakindajoke?a   >r1  > There are IA64 boxes running XP on the market?    Yes.  . I am not sure whether it is general available.   But they are there.h  7 What the heck - it has probably better software supportr
 than VMS !  	 See f.ex:u0     http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.1/download.html   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.218 ************************