1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 21 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 219       Contents:P !! PAID $5 made $356 sofar, resell e-book, give opinions...check out: http://flyB Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluster Re: Average Uptimes by OS  Bind 9 on VAX ?  Re: Bind 9 on VAX ?  FA/FS: DEC 3000/800 parts  Re: HP's SSH server EAK  Re: HP's SSH server EAK H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly6 Instructions available for VAX/VMS on Linux using SIMH# Re: locked out by CDE screen saver! 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments " Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP" Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences  Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences  Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences 5 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 12:41:15 -0500 $ From: "made some" <me@somewhere.org>Y Subject: !! PAID $5 made $356 sofar, resell e-book, give opinions...check out: http://fly / Message-ID: <3ea36eda_29@News.100ProofNews.com>    100+ e-books to resell" Get paid for your opinion database cost $5 E I already made $356 giving my opinion,it takes some effort to sign up  but it's worth it.( got to http://fly.to/stoneh and sign up.  No envelopes or stamps required.          2 -x-   100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com< -x-   3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups/ -x-   Access to over 700 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month  -x-   UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 20:50:06 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)K Subject: Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluster . Message-ID: <b7v15u$t4s$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  p trothf <trothf@boeing.com> writes in article <3EA03EB2.AE1FA876@boeing.com> dated Fri, 18 Apr 2003 18:06:42 GMT:H >We installed a 10/100 DE500 card so we could run 100Mbit (the quickspec? >says the onboard card can only run 10Mbit).  You have to tweek H >bootdef_dev  and it starts to boot into the cluster again, but it hangsG >after the network device select.  I do get 2 boot load hit messages on G >the server, but it's not getting beyond that.  I also removed the node F >from the cluster and readded it with cluster_config in case there wasE >some residual cluster memory of the old hardware address (yes, I did H >change it first just in NCP, but that didn't help either). VMS 6.2-1H3. >Any ideas?  Cluster reboot?  * Here are a few things that could go wrong:  J * If you are running Decnet phase IV (which sets the hardware addresses ofJ all your interfaces to the same thing), never plug more than one interfaceB into connected networks or you will really confuse the switch(es).  L * The mode of the ethernet switch must match that of the card.  I'm guessingI that your new card is EWB0.  ">>>set ewb0_mode x" will give you a list of L valid modes.  Auto-negotiate is best if your switch supports it.  I had someK trouble with a switch that defaulted to 100half for connections that didn't  autonegotiate first.  L * You might have to do something about the disconnected built-in interface. K If you have a 10baseT loopback connector, stick it in.  Otherwise you might J want to ">>>set ewa0_mode BNC" and put a terminator on the BNC connection.  L * If your system was configured to look for the internet on EWA0 and it's noL longer there, it may start tcp/ip very slowly.  Long delays can be caused by6 name server timeouts while loading the proxy database.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:43:03 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>" Subject: Re: Average Uptimes by OS- Message-ID: <rFKoa.310704$Zo.62169@sccrnsc03>   9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message  news:b7ooo3$30d9i$1@ID-   D > Still living ina fantasy world where VMS is the only stable system > in the universe! > 	 > ------- ? > ULTRIX V4.5 (Rev. 47) System #1: Sat Jan  1 01:26:25 EST 2000  > UWS V4.5 (Rev. 6)  > 
 > # uptimeH >   7:46am  up 201 days, 14:24,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00	 > -------  > A > And that is hardly a modern Unix, all of which are more stable.   K I see that system has been real busy there, Bill. Any system will be stable  if you don't use it.   ML   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:47:22 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Bind 9 on VAX ?/ Message-ID: <3EA2F943.E0D2FC37@vl.videotron.ca>   N Recent discussions about what is and isn't available on VAX revealed that Bind 9 isn't available on VAX.   . I didn't think it woudl bother me until today.  V I have a local lan with non routable adresses (10.*) and a NAT router to the internet.  K I am about to switch ISP (finally) where I can get static IP address. I was N told if I had Bind 9 server, I would then serve my own DNS by configuring BindN 9 to provide different IP adresses depending on whether the request comes from) a local host or from the router/internet.   K If I can't do that, I have to spend a whopping $25 per year to have the DNS < service hosted by the ISP. (I think it is more a question of* pride/thinkering/learning than the price).   So the questions then become:   L Is there a way for the current BIND (TCPIP 5.3) on VAX VMS to do what i need5 it to do or is that functionality limited to Bind 9 ?   H And if it is limited to Bind 9, has Digital/HP made any announcements onP whether the VMS Bind 9 implemnetation will be compiled and distributed for VAX ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:25:52 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Bind 9 on VAX ?' Message-ID: <3EA356B0.890B389F@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > [snip] > So the questions then become:  > N > Is there a way for the current BIND (TCPIP 5.3) on VAX VMS to do what i need7 > it to do or is that functionality limited to Bind 9 ?  > J > And if it is limited to Bind 9, has Digital/HP made any announcements onR > whether the VMS Bind 9 implemnetation will be compiled and distributed for VAX ?  D I might ask if either Multinet or TCPware provide BIND-9 and, if so,/ would that be an option for you, hobbyist-wise?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:30:12 GMT , From: "Frank Sapienza" <sapienza@noesys.com>" Subject: FA/FS: DEC 3000/800 parts> Message-ID: <84Goa.58366$MB4.23747984@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>  J I'm parting out a DEC 3000/800 server, and will list on E-bay this week orL next.  If anyone here is interested in anything in particular please make an offer by e-mail.  D The system has (5) PMAZC-AA dual SCSI controllers, (2) Dataram 256mbG upgrades, (1) 32mb original memory, (1) early RRD-something CD-ROM.  On K booting the system reports a machine check and process of elimination tells K me the main board is having a problem.  I'll guarantee all parts except the G mainboard against DOA.  I'm willing to strip out any parts of interest.    Frank    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:51:03 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>  Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK, Message-ID: <3EA2FA25.7090508@spammotel.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:+ > Alder (PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com) wrote:  > 4 >>WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.I >>debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:152: DISCONNECT received: No supported  " >>authentication methods available >  >  > Just guessing... > I > Another source of the problem (that I have seen with Process Software's H > SSH vs. OpenSSH [which I'd bet PuTTY is based on]) could be that thereI > are two formats of public key files, OpenSSH's and SECSH's (which is an G > RFC draft). OpenSSH's ssh-keygen has an option (-e) to convert a file D > into the other format. I didn't see it in the EAK's description of > ssh-keygen, though.   % I'll give that a try and report back.    > F > Another thought, when looking at PuTTY's key generation program: DidD > you specify "SSH2 DSA"? Because IMHO that's the only key type that > SSH2 works with.   Yup, I did.    >  > cu, 
 >   Martin   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 20:11:16 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>  Subject: Re: HP's SSH server EAK, Message-ID: <3EA2FEE1.7090406@spammotel.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:+ > Alder (PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com) wrote:  > 4 >>WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.I >>debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:152: DISCONNECT received: No supported  " >>authentication methods available >  >  > Just guessing... > I > Another source of the problem (that I have seen with Process Software's H > SSH vs. OpenSSH [which I'd bet PuTTY is based on]) could be that thereI > are two formats of public key files, OpenSSH's and SECSH's (which is an G > RFC draft). OpenSSH's ssh-keygen has an option (-e) to convert a file D > into the other format. I didn't see it in the EAK's description of > ssh-keygen, though.  >   E I tried the "-e" switch you describe and received no complaints from  D VMS.  Presumably the "-e" switch is valid for the HP version of SSH.  . Same trouble connecting to SSH server, though:   debug: Running event loop 7 debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:616: Remote version:   SSH-2.0-PuTTY-Release-0.53b E debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1135: c_to_s: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Ssh2Transport/TRCOMMON.C;1:1138: s_to_c: cipher 3des-cbc, mac   hmac-sha1,compression noneE debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:411: user 'TBRANSCO' service 'ssh-connection'  7 client_ip '192.168.0.1' client_port '1392' completed '' - debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:541: output: publickey 2 WARNING: Public key operation failed for tbransco.G debug: Ssh2Common/SSHCOMMON.C;1:152: DISCONNECT received: No supported    authentication methods available5 debug: Sshd2/SSHD2.C;1:159: locally_generated = FALSE  debug: Exiting event loop      Thanks again for reading,  Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:30:24 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <3EA365D0.3090804@tsoft-inc.com>   J. Clarke wrote:  9 > In article <00A1BAF7.D4960A23@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,  ( > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU says...  K >>>There are problems with Windows, but blame it for what it does, not for  ) >>>what applications running under it do.  >>> K >>I blame Microsoft in general, but Windows both has vulnerabilities of its : >>own and enables vulnerabilities in application software. >> > J > Every OS has vulnerabilities.  If you think they don't you are deluding  > yourself.     J As for that, please direct me to any vulnerabilities in VMS.  People keep Q claiming that every OS has problems, but when asked, never seem able to point to   any for VMS.  M As for windoz, forget vulnerabilities.  All I want to do is restore a system  P disk should I lose one, with all the installed applications, and be ready to go O again.  While it may be possible, I cannot find a way to backup a windoz disk,  R while it's the boot drive, such that the files could be restored onto a new drive.     Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 20:38:29 -0400 " From: Phil Wherry <psw@wherry.com>? Subject: Instructions available for VAX/VMS on Linux using SIMH 6 Message-ID: <MPG.190d0793d245b54989682@news.clark.net>   Folks,  I I used VAX/VMS "back in the day" and still think highly of the operating  D system. I've recently been fooling around with the Montagar OpenVMS E Hobbyist CD and a copy of Bob Supnik's SIMH freeware for a number of  " operating systems including Linux.  F The bottom line: I've been successful in getting OpenVMS running on a F Linux box in a manner that makes it indistinguishable from the remote F user's perspective from a real VAX. Things are at the point now where E the VAX emulator boots along with the Linux machine--which means you  I don't have to have a telnet/ssh window dedicated to running the emulator  G on the host Linux machine. There were a lot of steps involved, though,  @ so I thought some other VAX enthusiasts might benefit from some  documentation.  =    http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html   ; documents my progress to date. Let me know if you have any   comments/suggestions/questions.   B If you're interested in looking around a little before taking the G plunge, I'd be glad to create a user account for short-term use so you  E can look around on my emulated VAX. If you'd like to do this, please  / drop me an email with two pieces of information   5 - desired username (I'll write back with a password); H - a statement affirming your intention to evaluate for hobbyist use. My I right-to-use license states that I can only run the operating system for   noncommercial purposes.    Enjoy!   Phil Wherry  psw@wherry.com   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Apr 2003 05:21:58 GMT/ From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> , Subject: Re: locked out by CDE screen saver!5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-U5tUulTuj97i@localhost>   F On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:25:06 UTC, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN'  LANGSTOEGER) wrote:   y > In article <01KUK8GWRZ7CA9NUCE@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: K > >This morning, I tried to unlock the CDE screensaver on my workstation by I > >typing in the password.  It didn't work.  It beeped, like happens when J > >the password is wrong.  I could log in on the console (VT 520) with no F > >problem.  I changed the password.  Screen saver was still locked.  " > >Changed it back.  Still locked. > > G > >In the end, I restarted DECwindows from the console.  After that, I   > >could log in again. > > K > >Does anyone have any idea what could have caused this?  I've never seen  
 > >it before.  > M > I've seen it at least once, since I switched to CDE a couple of months ago.  > And it was not a cat...   ! CDE does that - it's a feature...   4 I'm old-fashioned and use the Motif session manager.   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:05:02 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments/ Message-ID: <3EA2EF5B.1F88B65A@vl.videotron.ca>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extraH > money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but IF > think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll find/ > someone else who will appreciate the favor."      N 1- If the funding agency is seeking the best possible "product" for the money,J then personal views of one of the people doing the job shouldn't matter ifH that person is the one who will provide the best product for the money.   F 2-It is exactly because the funding agency is part of a government whoL pretends to work so hard to protect free speech and liberty that this actionO gives that government a bad image because its actions are exactly the opposite.   L In other words, the rich guy claims that he allows all his benefactors totalM freedom of expression. But then he turns around and cuts funding to those who " express different views from him.   M DOD is very big. Does this mean for instance that if Boeing were to criticise N a networking decision made by Darpa, that it would lose contracts for buildingI fighter jets ? It seems that someone involved in the IT side of DOD loses N funding if he criticises not the DOD, but a US government policy which is even( more distant from the IT section of DOD.  K Would Kraft be forced to cut funding to someone who is anti-smoking because 9 Kraft is owned by Altria which also owns Phillip Morris ?     L In the end, such short sighted actions hurt the image of the funder far more# than the pocketbook of the fundee.    J Of course, outside of the USA,. the image of the USA government is alreadyL stained beyond repair, so such stories only further re-enforce the extremelyN bad image the USA government currently has. But I realise that in the USA, 70%M are keeping a blind eye to all the abuses made by the government because they F are told that they must support the government ina time of war and not question its actions.   S In the past, I always wondered why the german people never rose up against Hittler.   I However, seing how the US government has managed to shut up any political M opposition, as well as tactfully control the media so that the media presents K only the "patriotic" side of the story, I now see how americans are totally J blinded to the lies, exagerations, falsified evidence, actions worthy of aH police state and nobody in the USA is attempting to rise up against BushC Jr/Rumsfeld/Cheney/Wolfowitz because they know they will be labeled ( "unpatriotic" and risk losing their job.  L Seing what is happening in the USA, I now understand how Hittler was able toN get away with murder with his citizens also keeping a blind eye to his actionsK because they had been convinced and coercerd into thinking it was the right 3 thing to do, necessary for national safety etc etc.   J It is very sad that any american would not revolt against such funding cutJ because someone spoke out against the US government policies. In the past,L this would never have been tolerated. What is next ? The USA government willL only give money to those registered with the republican party ? (look at theN contracts being awarded to friends of republicans to rebuild all the stuff the@ americans destroyed in Iraq - without any tenders, bidding etc).  N In the days of the soviet union, the people didn't revolt at similar behaviourK of their government because they considered it normal and they know that if S they opposed it, they would be sent to the USSR's equivalent to Gantanamo: Siberia.   K Just like in the old USSR, most people lives their lives normally and don't J really notice the stuff that is going on in the background since they wereK never informed about people disapearing and sent to prison without trial or  legal representation etc etc.   V I realise I will get blasted for stating the above. But please consider the following:  & FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE DRUNK.  M If your best friend is drunk, you will take the keys away from him even if it N makes him really mad. The next day, when he wakes up, he will realise how muchM of a good friend you were because you widthsood his threaths, insults because + you know this was necessary to protect him.   M Right now, many countries tried to warn the USA that it was making a mistake. L The USA is acting like the drunk in the bar whose keys have been removed andK is throwing insults at all those trying to prevent him from driving. But at I the end of the day, I am convinced that the USA will eventually find that H France, Canada , Germany, China, Russia etc were far better friends thanJ Britain and Spain who saw an short term opportunity be appearing to be the; nice guys who don't prevent the drunk from driving his car.   M For a person who didn't even know who the prime minister of canada was during N his election campaign, it seems ironic that he would be able to undertand whatG he has really done to the middle east. His father knew best not to oust L Hussein forcefully. He has listened to all the neighbours of Iraq who beggedJ not to remove him: the vacuum will simply allow religious fanatics to takeJ control and you may get an islamic revolution right inside the world's oil production areas.   L But Bush Jr decided to listen to Worlfowitz,Cheney,Rumsfeld whose agenda is,M and has been for many years (check out http://www.newamericancentury.org ) to I find excuses to invade the middle east and flex the USA's military muscle ! since they are against diplomacy.   M If you go to that site, you will see where and especially WHEN the term "axis J of evil" came from. I find it so ironic that this doctrine was implementedJ right after Iran had made serious openings with the USA, helping it in theK fight on terrorism/Afghanistan. Then the USA turns around and implemnts the M 1998 axis of evil doctrine which predated the warming of relations with Iran.   M Sorry, I must rather have a mostly harmless clown who like to have fun and be M friends with world leader rather than some puppet controlled by a cabinet who ) wants war and to control the middle east.   M The good one ? On the day the USA formally cancelled Bush Jr's first visit to O Canada, our PM was out golfing his his friend Bill Clinton. This was last week.   J The USA may be sending all sorts of veil threaths to Canada for not havingM supported its illegal war, but if we are supposed to be such good allies, how J come Bush Jr has repeatedly chosen to cancel the visits to Canada that areI traditional between these 2 countries with the world's longest undefended  border ?    ' ok sorry. just had to let the seam out.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:22:05 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments/ Message-ID: <3EA2F359.457DCE7C@vl.videotron.ca>    "Doc.Cypher" wrote: P > Looks like Theo has a big mouth and a predeliction for seeing how many feet heQ > can fit in it. It isn't easy to be sympathetic towards him when he doesn't seem F > to see any distinction between DARPA and the current administration.  L That is the problem. At least outside the USA, people are seing a governmentG working very hard (and succeeding inside the USA) to quelch opposition.   C The US Ambassador to Canada has stated publicly that there would be J consequences to Canada not having supported the illegal invasion of Iraq. 2 Just how would such consequences be implemented ?   N The easy way to do this is for the white house to send word to its departmentsL that they are more than welcome to cut off any funding of projects involvingD canadians if such cuts don't really affect any americans.  And thoseB "patriotic" employees of varous departments would first single out: "unpatriotic" folks who dare criticise the USA government.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:22:44 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> < Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments' Message-ID: <3EA355F4.AED0AD7A@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:. >  > In article <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>,/ >  >      Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: J >  >>>It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.< >  >>>It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. >  >>>C >  >>>Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?  >  >> + >  >>It has very much to do with democracy.  >  >> ? >  >>If people are not allowed to say what they think about the > >  >>war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts to@ >  >>sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war. >  > >  > Who lost their job? > > > As far as I understand it then the guy in question did loose* > his job. I assume: no funding => no job. > M >  > What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extra K >  > money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but I I >  > think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll find 1 >  > someone else who will appreciate the favor."  > H > This is exactly how the old east block worked. You have two applicantsJ > for a job as manager for a factory, one who know about the what is being8 > done at the factory but also is in opposition, and oneI > that is less qualified but has the rigth opinions, and you pick the one  > with the "correct" opinions.  G But that describes perfectly the politcal climate inside a corporation, G as well as the attitude that customer service people take toward people  calling with complaints.  G In a corporation, the ones who get results are frequently the ones best G able to build politcal alliances, whether their intentions are truly in # the company's best interest or not.   A In a customer service scenario, I'm sure we can all cite personal F experiences where ragging on the CS rep. failed to produce the desiredH result while being calm and sociable tends to produce the desired result  more often than the alternative.   It's human nature, no?  C > The result was economic disaster and a regime that people did not  > want to live under.   G In the context to which you refer, yes, that's true: those who can talk D the regime's talk are more likely to stay in favor than those who doF not. The rest of the world is not much different, even if the scenario is less extreme.  , > I would expect any government that either: >     - respect democracy  >     - wants efficiencyA > to hire the best man for the job - no matter what his political  > opinions are.   F I can agree; however, having a report who thinks I'm a jerk would makeG my life as his/her supervisor supremely challenging. Do I wanna do that ) to myself? Would you? Rather depends, eh?   C > That job was about operating system security. What the guy thinks , > about the war in Iraq is not job relevant.  ? Well, yes and no. If his beliefs in the project's relevance are A questionable, I'd venture to say that his value to the venture is  likewise questionable.  G >   >                                        Actually, both of them are  >  > merely making expressions.  > A > Cutting funds to a project because you disagree with views from > > a project member is a little more than making an expression.  ? In terms of the end result, yes. In terms of the inter-personal ' mechanics of the situation, not really.   I >  >       There is no requirement for DARPA to fund the OpenBSD Project.  >  > That is true.  > ? > But I would expect them to fund the projects they think makes < > the biggest benefits for the US defense/country and not toA > fund projects whose team members support current US government.   ; Then "they" should be the major backers of OpenVMS, eh? ;-)    > [snip]A > If you think DARPA funding is intended to be granted as favours F > and that is is acceptable for a government to use tax payer money asG > favours to people supporting its politics then I guess you are rigth.   G What is acceptable versus what is commonly accepted could become rather ? an ulgy debate. I'm hoping this does not descend to that level.   = > That is what I consider old east block way of doing things.   D Make no mistake: *ANY* political system is going to be driven by theE willingness of people to work together. That willingness of people to C work together is going to be driven largely by "agreement": "do you 2 wanna work with me, and do I wanna work with you".  4 >  >>In a free society you are allowed to speak your1 >  >>political views without consequences (within 6 >  >>certain limitatations given by the law ofcourse). >  >K >  > That's not actually true.  Everything we do has consequences.  And one L >  > must be prepared to accept them if they shoose to take actions that areK >  > likely to be unfavorably received.  I don't believe in the speed limit N >  > on the highways.  I drive cars capable of handling higher speeds.  But ifJ >  > I choose to make my statement (under freedom of speech/expression) byM >  > exceeding that speed limit, then I must be prepared to be stopped, cited  >  > and fined.  > 0 > Yes. Because that is the law. And you know it. > ! > So that is a very poor analogy.   E Well, no, not really. Concrete, yes, but I'd not say "poor". There is G (at least) one immutable law: *EVERY* action has a consequence, make no ' mistake. Forget that at your own peril.   6 > It would be a much better analogy, if your boss came5 > to you and said that you would not get any increase 3 > in salary, because he did not like your political  > views you had expressed. > < > My guess is that you would not consider that fair. Because7 > your political opinions and activities are not of his  > business.   G ...and also because (I believe) that would be a violation of U.S. labor  and/or employee relations law.  C Your boss is required to evaluate you based on your performance. If F personal issues are allowed to intrude at that level, a very difficult quagmire quickly develops.  6 >  >>It is also well-known that you get the wealthiest5 >  >>socity by having the jobs done by those with the 2 >  >>best skills instead of those popular with the5 >  >>government (that was another huge problem in the  >  >>old east block).   B ...or, as can be seen just about anywhere, those who have the most@ influence are the ones who get the most results. Again, not muchF different from corporate politics, just a somewhat different flavor of the same thing.   0 >  > One is not mutually exclusive of the other. >  > Nonsense.  > ; > I do not belive there are any fields where if you want to @ > hire the 100 best, then all 100 will be of a certain political
 > opinion. > E > So you need to decide whether you want the 100 absolute best or the   > 100 best among those you like.  A However, the two sets do overlap: they are not mutally exclusive.   J >  >                                                 I have worked for theK >  > government (and even DOD) in the past and known many extremely skilled 
 >  > persons.  > I > Yes. Noone are arguing that. Just as that there are very skilled people H > that are at the left, then there are also very skilled people that are > at the rigth.  > ; > I am not american, so I do not know whether the political < > distribution among US academia is different from the US as
 > a whole.  E I'd say US academia reflects US society as a whole quite well, skewed G by, among other factors, intellectualism and other characteristics, but E in general not greatly different. In my personal experience, those in @ academia are seekers of knowledge, while at the other end of theG spectrum I usually find those who devote their energies to learning how B to avoid learning. The diversity in between is virtually infinite.  ; > But if it is the same, then 25% republican, 25% democrats 7 > and 50% do not care sounds as as good a guess as any.   % Agreed. That seems a fair assessment.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:16:51 -0400 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments, Message-ID: <3EA362A3.4040603@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > J >>What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extraH >>money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but IF >>think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll find/ >>someone else who will appreciate the favor."   >> >  > P > 1- If the funding agency is seeking the best possible "product" for the money,L > then personal views of one of the people doing the job shouldn't matter ifJ > that person is the one who will provide the best product for the money.  > H > 2-It is exactly because the funding agency is part of a government whoN > pretends to work so hard to protect free speech and liberty that this actionQ > gives that government a bad image because its actions are exactly the opposite.  > N > In other words, the rich guy claims that he allows all his benefactors totalO > freedom of expression. But then he turns around and cuts funding to those who $ > express different views from him.  > O > DOD is very big. Does this mean for instance that if Boeing were to criticise P > a networking decision made by Darpa, that it would lose contracts for buildingK > fighter jets ? It seems that someone involved in the IT side of DOD loseseP > funding if he criticises not the DOD, but a US government policy which is even* > more distant from the IT section of DOD.   <snipping rest of a great rant>     N Ok JF, nice rant, but totally off target, and would you have said the same if B you supported the ouster of Saddam Hussien?  I seriously doubt it.  O Read what Bill wrote, then try to match what you wrote to his statements.  You  N can't.  You just took another excuse to jump on your soapbox and say what you ) wanted to say, regardless of the subject.o  L There was no actions against free speach.  People are free to say what they N feel, but, others are free to react in a manner they see fit.  Can't have one  without the other.  N As for Boeing and such, there is a rather large difference between a contract  and a grant.  O  From what I read, the DARPA financed EVENT was going to be used as a forum to o piss on the DOD.  H Now, you can have a contract, and perform according to the terms of the & contract, and still say what you want.  2 You can have a grant, and still say what you want.  P But you sure cannot expect any entity to FINANCE an event at which they will be  trashed!  M Even you should be able to see that such goes too far.  Well, maybe you can, r2 you've shown remarkable ability to change reality.  J I do expect that you and others with an agenda will be able to ignore the  reality of the situation.    Dave   -- v4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:08:55 -0400U0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP1/ Message-ID: <3EA2F043.65F1B8CA@vl.videotron.ca>v  N In my opinion, a good mail system should be able to flag messages as potentialL SPAM and include susch warnings in the inbox of the recipient. The recipientC can then delete the message without reading it, or if he thinks theh? subject/sender looks legitimate, he can then take a peek at it.f  M A note at the bottom of message should be added to specify what triggered theo8 SMTP server to potentially consider this a spam message.  M Because SPAM evolves like a virus, there must be some way to monitor the spamhL traffic and see how the software behaves, instead of blocking it at the doorN and never seing it. (and never seing if you block legitimate messages or not).  J In business, if you block an email from a potential new customer, you have just lost a new customer.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:37:40 GMTt6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTP 4 Message-ID: <8GCoa.149980$UR.1349395@news.chello.at>  b In article <3E9727DD.ABD960B8@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Carl Perkins wrote:G >> Why? The recipient must be specified before the body of the message.eG >> If it is a VMS SMTP server, why shouldn't it immediately look up thehJ >> user (in the VMS specific way) to verify the validity of the addressee? > O >I guess it could start the callable mail stuff immediatly and verify usernamesuO >and bounce them. However, this does have security implications since it allows>8 >someone to test for existance of a username on a node.   " Yes. Just as the VRFY command did.E But in contrast to the now disabled-everywhere SMTP command, for thissC "security hole" (I don't see it as such) the sender must now send aiE real mail with sender, subject and so on. And this won't go unnoticedkI for quite long. And the sender also can't assume that a mail which is notoH rejected, contains a valid username/mailaddress (some mailservers acceptI all mails [and simply discard then]) so it is not really a security hole.sF Now, if a user responds to such a message (with say "UNSUBSCRIBE") andE the sender's address was valid, then and only then, the sender gets a ( confirmation that an address is valid...   -- h Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialistV E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 20:19:14 GMT-6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)+ Subject: Re: Reject Unknown Users from SMTPe4 Message-ID: <6hDoa.150384$UR.1366091@news.chello.at>  b In article <3EA0A2C2.56451F5F@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:lI >> 3. explicit IP addresses 4. unmatches HELO/EHLO nodenames with used IP. >> address,  > K >The problem with this is that there are many serious emails that come fromdO >folks with LANs but who must set the emails to appear to come from their ISP's I >network so that the replies will be sent back to the ISP since their ISPe# >blocks port 25 and static IPs etc.P  N No. Don't confuse mailserver nodenames with MAIL FROM: or From: (or Reply-To:) addresses...   -- y Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialistp E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:05:26 GMTo6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences4 Message-ID: <GjBoa.148871$UR.1335814@news.chello.at>  b In article <3E9F4E9D.AA798F76@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:d& >> RECALL List (20 Entries vs umpteen) >e' >VAX VMS 7.* has the big recall buffer.t  % Sorry, it was an old list I posted...r  < >> VMS Installation/Updates/ECOs (VMSINSTAL vs. CD-ROM/PCSI) >2! >VAX has both VMSINSTAL and PCSI.h  H Yes, it has. But VAX VMS Installation and Upgrades are (still) done withM VMSINSTAL.COM. And VMS ECOs are still delivered in VMSINSTALlable kit format.e< Or in other words: I did not state PCSI is the difference...  & >> Standalone Backup vs Standalone VMS >oM >Isn't it a case of Alpha not having standalone backup and both vac and alphad- >having ability to boot minimal VMS from CD ?   E Maybe. But I never had booted a VMS CD on a VAX. Is it possible now ?r8 If yes, I missed that feature and put ash on my head ;-)   >> APACHE (PERL, PHP, TOMCAT)b >n >Perls runs on vax.y  % But not the one DEC/CPQ/HPQ supplies.b   >> SSL >  >openSSL runs on vax./  + But not the one DEC/CPQ/HPQ supplies (SSL).t+ OpenSSL is freeware and another product ;-)-   >> BIND9 >-@ >Isn't the BIND the same for TCPIP 5.3 for both vax and alpha ?   C No. TCPIP V5.3 on Alpha contains a BIND9 server and a BIND8 client. I All other products (UCX, TCPIP on VAX, TCPware, Multinet) contain a BIND8  server and client.   >> PPP >   >Real bummer that vax lacks PPP.  I So, in case of PERL and SSL you cite 3rd party/freeware products and hereiK you forget to mention TCPware (which supplies PPP for VAX for a decade now)p and probably Multinet ;-)e  	 >> No GAPl >R >Is "Gap" a VMS customer ?  @ No, the Gateway Access Protocol. I should fix this in my list...   >> No DDCMPm > # >No message router on alpha either.a   And a lot more products...   >> CXMLi > K >Since source come for the XML is available, that isn't a hindrance to VAX.-  = I did not explain all differences and how to workaround them.mL I only listed short items and CXML (will it be called HXML now - quite funnyM and will bring a lot of name confusions) is not available from HPQ for Alpha.D   -- M Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistd E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 18:08:10 GMTe6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences4 Message-ID: <emBoa.148901$UR.1349395@news.chello.at>  Z In article <b7ose1$rt6$1@news.process.com>, "Richard Whalen" <WhalenR@process.com> writes:r >"Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message news:LVGna.100771$UR.868224@news.chello.at...z >> In article <OFC8E9212E.5CB2D9C8-ON07256D02.0052972D@rsc.raytheon.com>, "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> writes:& >> >   SHOW MEMORY due to architecture >> >   ODS-5 only on AlphaD >> >   SDA has different interface and commands due to VMS structure9 >> >   @AUTOGEN/SYSGEN/SYSMAN PARAM due to VMS structure.p >> >= >> >Others?  Please send me a list and I'll make a composite.c >>$ >> Here is my (very incomplete) list >> >> SSH >@G >Process Software offers SSH for VAX and Alpha on many versions of VMS.e  3 Yes, they do, and even for older versions of TCPIP.l. But HPQ does not and so there is a difference.   -- : Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERp% Network and OpenVMS system specialistl E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 21:41:19 +0100h9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>a& Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha VMS differences? Message-ID: <92bb47e64b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>o  3 In message <GjBoa.148871$UR.1335814@news.chello.at>tA           peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote:e  d > In article <3E9F4E9D.AA798F76@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:# > >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:S( > >> RECALL List (20 Entries vs umpteen) > > ) > >VAX VMS 7.* has the big recall buffer.m > ' > Sorry, it was an old list I posted...  > > > >> VMS Installation/Updates/ECOs (VMSINSTAL vs. CD-ROM/PCSI) > >m# > >VAX has both VMSINSTAL and PCSI.T > J > Yes, it has. But VAX VMS Installation and Upgrades are (still) done withO > VMSINSTAL.COM. And VMS ECOs are still delivered in VMSINSTALlable kit format.l> > Or in other words: I did not state PCSI is the difference... > ( > >> Standalone Backup vs Standalone VMS > >bO > >Isn't it a case of Alpha not having standalone backup and both vac and alphaO/ > >having ability to boot minimal VMS from CD ?t > G > Maybe. But I never had booted a VMS CD on a VAX. Is it possible now ?:: > If yes, I missed that feature and put ash on my head ;-)  5 I didn't know this either until I got my hobbyist CD.0   Boot /10000000 does it.a   >  > >> APACHE (PERL, PHP, TOMCAT)c > >: > >Perls runs on vax.y > ' > But not the one DEC/CPQ/HPQ supplies.  >  > >> SSL > >6 > >openSSL runs on vax.> > - > But not the one DEC/CPQ/HPQ supplies (SSL).0- > OpenSSL is freeware and another product ;-)S > 
 > >> BIND9 > >.B > >Isn't the BIND the same for TCPIP 5.3 for both vax and alpha ?  > E > No. TCPIP V5.3 on Alpha contains a BIND9 server and a BIND8 client. K > All other products (UCX, TCPIP on VAX, TCPware, Multinet) contain a BIND8  > server and client. >  > >> PPP > >f" > >Real bummer that vax lacks PPP. > K > So, in case of PERL and SSL you cite 3rd party/freeware products and heretM > you forget to mention TCPware (which supplies PPP for VAX for a decade now)a > and probably Multinet ;-)w >  > >> No GAPs > >b > >Is "Gap" a VMS customer ? > B > No, the Gateway Access Protocol. I should fix this in my list... > 
 > >> No DDCMPo > > % > >No message router on alpha either.a >  > And a lot more products... > 	 > >> CXMLb > >sM > >Since source come for the XML is available, that isn't a hindrance to VAX., > ? > I did not explain all differences and how to workaround them. N > I only listed short items and CXML (will it be called HXML now - quite funnyO > and will bring a lot of name confusions) is not available from HPQ for Alpha.f >    -- c
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 01:26:42 GMTr6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?4 Message-ID: <mNHoa.153909$UR.1401709@news.chello.at>  ^ In article <OF6C74EFB3.2CC1EC72-ON85256D0A.0067EC4A@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:H >You can get most of this directly from analyze/image/select if you just >want the text.eG >The exception here is the linker identification (Do we need an SPR fors >another keyword?).O   Of course we do./ And much more. I need the values in symbols ;-)sL Yes, I can mumble them with DCL, but why not extend the ANALYZE.EXE instead. (think of SHOW DISPLAY/SYMBOLS)r  J The F$CVUI/F$FAO hack is good and fast but it will badly break with I64 !!  < >Oh and this fails with a few exe's that are not native like >sys$system:apb_bootp.exe foro4 >example, so a test using analyze/image is in order.  > I had it fail with some more native OpenVMS Alpha images, too.N I now have to find out why and if I should open a service call (w/o contract).   -- d Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.219 ************************ike to do this, please  / drop me an email with two pieces of information   5 - desired username (I'll write back with a password); H - a statement affirming your intention to evaluate for hobbyist use. My I right-to-use license states that I can only run the operating system for   noncommercial purposes.    Enjoy!   Phil Wherry  psw@wherry.com   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Apr 2003 05:21:58 GMT/ From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> VFAB P     B  @    m!Ц IM VFHC ,     ; 
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T     IM, VDAT <     % ^-ؓ-T}˩   IM VPRO X     'b1@  0       IM VRDT      =R ^-}K0ǟ=187%%#&SMv?XK{yM"2/-hBHj3;!lƑ\F9N/ޠGJpu_,XXYl01ԵS[҆hQϑSǔDdC[;1.(mÙa ȻHO4!q4$عsҐ dʴȕ,S13|)U
쎅@xN"cX#3|K׎ϯ

md41XאV3cp6E:B
WkLx61![mS.DɖH{nXo,OP~.PwЍRe-D'Bk@A~ƣG_`(HPK    t*         vaxcrtl.optIM VMSV       V6.1 IM% VFAB P     B  @   m!Ц IM VFHC ,     ; p    IM# VDAT <     % `XeƤZc    IM VPRO X     'b1@  0       IM VRDT      =R `Xee`
V	pr
sp
sp0  PK    +pw8  n  
             aaareadme.nraIM VMSV       V6.1 IM$ VFAB P     B 
 @    m!Ц IM VFHC ,     ; 
l 
   IM, VDAT <     % 0sL)Ŕ*M)ŴoS¡   IM VPRO X     'b1@  0       IM VRDT      =R 0sL)PK    C2Ĭ   
  
         큕  aaareadme.txtIM VMSV       V6.1 IM$ VFAB P     B  @    m!Ц IM VFHC ,     ; 
T
   IM, VDAT <     % h[ϼ-κ-9Fʡ   IM VPRO X     'b1@  0       IM VRDT      =R h[ϼ-PK    C=@             s  cld.hIM VMSV     