1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 22 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 221       Contents: Re: 7.1-1 H1 to 7.3: issue?  Re: Average Uptimes by OS  Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing9 Re: DCL question (of the day)- null byte in string symbol % Re: DLT magtape in a MicroVAX 3100-98 % Re: DLT magtape in a MicroVAX 3100-98 " Example of mission critical mishap5 RE: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC 5 Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC 5 Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC B HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LANF Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LANF Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LANF Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. 9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. 9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. 9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. 9 Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed. H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly. Re: Legato vs TSM for VMS backup pros and cons% OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release ) RE: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release ) Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release ) RE: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release ) Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments 3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments E Re: Personal Firewalls - was Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected M Re: Press Release for OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Update Feel free to  distribute P Re: Press Release for OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Update Feel free to distribute dis Scaling of HELP libraries  Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS! Re: system tools cd mount problem   Re: Unix,VMS,Wintel connectivity2 Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen2 Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen  Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install question1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report 5 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ? 5 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ? 5 Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:31:36 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) $ Subject: Re: 7.1-1 H1 to 7.3: issue?0 Message-ID: <sb%oa.132$Bf2.127@news.cpqcorp.net>  h In article <3e9e76e2$0$28773$626a54ce@news.free.fr>, PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:P :I have a Customer running real Real Time programs under OpenVMS 7.1-1H1/Alpha.  :They want to upgrade to 7.3.   F   From OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H1 to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1, I would expect.  6 :Is there something particular they should care about?  3   Freely pillaging from materials posted elsewhere:   D   "Open-ended questions -- any gotchas -- are effectively impossibleG   for the OpenVMS Wizard to answer, given the nature and the complexity F   of the environment.  In general, please apply the mandatory ECO kitsF   for the OpenVMS release in use, please maintain a supported release,C   and please see the support and ECO information and the ECO search :   engine information that is included in the OpenVMS FAQ."  D   I would further encourage BACKUPs before and after -- to fall backD   to the pre-upgrade environment or to fall back to the as-installedC   environment -- and I would also encourage off-line testing of all @   critical applications.  Also check the other product versions.  D   Any other upgrades planned?  Platform upgrades?  Storage upgrades?  E   I have seen applications fail because OpenVMS V7.3-1 is faster (and D   the application had a latent timing bug), for instance -- this andD   most other classes of open-ended questions are hideously difficultD   to answer with any specificity.  And the general answer, well, you   already know that.  F   As another reply mentioned, "real-time" is meaningless in isolation.D   The interesting parts of any "real-time" installation involve the D   determination of the required response time, and the determinationD   of the cost of missing a response window.  Characterizing and then)   measuring the response, in other words.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:52:02 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Average Uptimes by OS' Message-ID: <3EA49232.6BA9635D@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > [snip]J > I've never tried, but I would be willing to bet that RT-11 or RSTS wouldI > have no problem staying up for at least this long.  If I could convince G > Mentec to donate licenses for my (still in the dream stages) computer % > museum maybe we could find out! :-)   G Funny you should mention that in response to Mark. He and I both worked D at a shop where, upon upgrade to RSTS/E V8.0 from V7.2, our in-houseG application's order selection process - which ran for about 12 hours on E V7.2 - died during the third day of running when RSTS/E V8.0 crashed. ; Mark was, well, displeased (to say the least, if not less).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:46:46 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing ) Message-ID: <3EA43C96.3040004@vajhoej.dk>    Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >> Time is money.  > K > Clitche of you considering the volume of messages you post on this list..   : How many posts I make on a public holiday or in the vening6 in my personal time has very little to do with the job
 situation.  4 With this I can only risk getting my wife after me !   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:13:44 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>  Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing ' Message-ID: <3EA442E8.9060107@MMaz.com>    Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:   > Barry Treahy, Jr. wrote: >  >>> Time is money. >> >>H >> Clitche of you considering the volume of messages you post on this=20	 >> list..  >  > < > How many posts I make on a public holiday or in the vening8 > in my personal time has very little to do with the job > situation. > 6 > With this I can only risk getting my wife after me ! >  > :-)  > - I give on that one :-)  I can truly relate...    Barry    --=20   B Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO=20  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:54:50 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing ' Message-ID: <3EA492DA.4ACF162F@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Stanley F. Quayle wrote:0 > > On 18 Apr 2003 at 19:28, Michael Rice wrote:H > >>Well, I know next to nothing about CHARON-VAX, other than it's a VAXL > >>emulator.  However, you've piqued my interest in this pricing issue.  IsL > >>the pricelist just a big secret, is the pricing scheme so bizare that itI > >>can't be published, or is it one of those "tell us how much money you 3 > >>have and we'll give you a quote" type of deals?  > > < > > *sigh*  At the risk of opening the can of worms again... > > ; > > My involvement as a reseller adds the following values:  >  > [long list omitted]  > D > > It's not a "how much money" issue -- it's because the process is= > > pretty complicated.  Migrations frequently include server B > > consolidation, data migration, changes in backup methods, etc. > * > That did not really answer the question. > = > Everybody with an IQ above 90 will know that those services < > you list cost money - and that the sum of money depends og > exactly what is required.  > = > But what does a CD with the software + a license to install  > it on one PC cost ?   F Gotta second Arne's comments, I'm afraid. Salespeak won't sidestep the+ issue. The group is expecting hard numbers.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:00:30 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX Pricing ' Message-ID: <3EA4942E.CD0392CA@fsi.net>    "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > - > On 21 Apr 2003 at 18:46, Arne Vajhj wrote: ( > > Have you ever worked in a business ? > , > Yes.  I'm doing that right now, in fact... > > > > If you go out and spend time evaluating a product and then@ > > conclude that the product is good and then it turns out that@ > > the price is way to high, then the you will have one hell of@ > > a problem explaining the boss why price was not investigated5 > > before spending time on the technical evaluation.  > C > Absolutely.  That's why no one gets a license key from me without / > getting a full proposal, with pricing, first.  >  > > Time is money. > G > Yep.  No use wasting my time working with a customer who can't commit / > to what it takes to get the job done right...   C I appreciate your position, Stan. None the less, I am disappointed. B Being able to "commit to what it takes to get the job done right",E unfortunately, requires a vendor who is willing to be forthcoming and 7 up-front. Otherwise, both sides are wasting their time.   ? Given the current state of VMS, my opinion is that the time for E "optimizing results" is past. The focus now is produce results first, D then worry about optimizing (you can't optimize what you don't have, eh?).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 15:15:32 -0700, From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)B Subject: Re: DCL question (of the day)- null byte in string symbol= Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0304211415.62acc51a@posting.google.com>   Y briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in message news:<hkxIBEAhI2kB@eisner.encompasserve.org>... Z > In article <b7mmsk$spq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: ... F >   "You cannot specify null characters (<NUL>) on a DCL command line,@ >    even if you enclose the null character in quotation marks." ...  > H > It seems clear that cases in which a <NUL> is subtly embedded in a DCL> > command line through the use of symbol substitution are also > intended to be forbidden.  ...   5 It was a shop standard at three places where I worked : to never place a physically composed hexadecimal character6 on any DCL statement or in any language's source code.N When printing out to a printer, the hexadecimal data could confuse the printer! into different modes, fonts, etc. B Also, when you print out the source code you cannot view the value (bad for documentation).4 I wonder what a physical <NUL> character might do to< Visual Source Safe and other like "source control" products?   Jim Strehlow, Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:06:25 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: DLT magtape in a MicroVAX 3100-98' Message-ID: <3EA49591.813EE62B@fsi.net>    Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  > 7 > Id like to know if I could connect a DLT driver in a B > MicroVAX 3100-98 (Personal Workstation). I want make my backups- > with a DLT driver. Now Im using DAT tapes.  > Thanks in advance...  D Should work fine up to about TZ88 or so, I should think. Maybe TZ89.* Don't have the resources to try it myself.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:38:31 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>. Subject: Re: DLT magtape in a MicroVAX 3100-98= Message-ID: <r21pa.32041$Si4.18364@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3EA49591.813EE62B@fsi.net...  > Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  > > 9 > > Id like to know if I could connect a DLT driver in a D > > MicroVAX 3100-98 (Personal Workstation). I want make my backups/ > > with a DLT driver. Now Im using DAT tapes.  > > Thanks in advance... > F > Should work fine up to about TZ88 or so, I should think. Maybe TZ89., > Don't have the resources to try it myself.  L TZ88 should work, but the -89 has a fast/wide interface. It can be tricky to5 connect if the SCSI bus is shared with other devices.    --   Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. www.sysman-inc.com www.openvms.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:35:07 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Example of mission critical mishap - Message-ID: <3EA46406.EF3C48@vl.videotron.ca>   M Note: IBM is the main outsource contractor for Air Canada. This caused mayhem 5 for its oerations (flight delays, cancellations etc).     L On April 13, International Business Machines Corp. had begun a planned powerK outage of Air Canada's operations and flight planning computer systems when J the computer company's uninterrupted power supply support system failed toK immediately engage, Ernst & Young said. Air Canada lost C$1.3 million as it J then had to complete operations and flight planning functions manually for three hours, the monitor said.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:06:00 -0400 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> > Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PCK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BEE@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   . > From: VMSnewbie [mailto:The7car@comcast.net]& > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:11 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC   > printer on a > LAN  >  > H > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantH > print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aF > printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingD > else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tF > have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneD > with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it. >  >  Mebbe, mebbe not.     What *kind* of printer is it?  What model?   $ Does the printer have an IP address?  1 Answer these and we might be able to get started.    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:33:09 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com > Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC1 Message-ID: <03042116330922@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   H > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantH > print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aF > printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingD > else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tF > have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneD > with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it.     There are a couple of options.  O 1) If the printer is directly attached to the network with it's own IP address, . then you will be able to print directly to it.   $ initialize /queue -               /retain=error -'              /process=tcpip$telnetsym -               myqueue -              /start   = I am sure others will add additional qualifiers to the above.   L 2) If the printer is local-attached to a Windows client then you could setupM Advanced Server (or Pathworks).  This would be a little bit more involved and O their are certain conditions and requirements that must be met before doing so.   M 3) If the printer is serial connect you could use a DECserver (300 or better) K to attach the printer to the network.  This would also be a little bit more # involved, require a DECserver, etc.     
 What say you?    John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:13:48 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> > Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC' Message-ID: <3EA4974C.51FE26B1@fsi.net>    brandon@dalsemi.com wrote: > J > > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantJ > > print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aH > > printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingF > > else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tH > > have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneF > > with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it. >   > There are a couple of options. > Q > 1) If the printer is directly attached to the network with it's own IP address, 0 > then you will be able to print directly to it. >  > $ initialize /queue -  >              /retain=error -) >              /process=tcpip$telnetsym -  >              myqueue - >              /start  > ? > I am sure others will add additional qualifiers to the above.  > N > 2) If the printer is local-attached to a Windows client then you could setupO > Advanced Server (or Pathworks).  This would be a little bit more involved and Q > their are certain conditions and requirements that must be met before doing so.  > O > 3) If the printer is serial connect you could use a DECserver (300 or better) M > to attach the printer to the network.  This would also be a little bit more % > involved, require a DECserver, etc.  >  > What say you?   C I've not been able to spend much time on Samba the last week or so. @ Perhaps someone else can offer some insights as to whether Samba" provides "printer sharing" on VMS.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:11:18 -0400 % From: VMSnewbie <The7car@comcast.net> K Subject: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN 8 Message-ID: <1bj8avs48te58mrm53k0s00ee2b27rh30l@4ax.com>  F I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantF print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aD printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingB else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tD have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneB with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:11:08 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> O Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN ' Message-ID: <3EA496AC.6BAD0D87@fsi.net>    VMSnewbie wrote: > H > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantH > print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aF > printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingD > else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tF > have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneD > with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it.  G If you have Reflection Suite, Chameleon or something else that provides B an LPD service, simply setup the PC as the target of an LPD queue.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:21:11 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) O Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN < Message-ID: <bO0pa.119985$vI3.5012839@twister.austin.rr.com>  & VMSnewbie (The7car@comcast.net) wrote:H : I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantH : print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aF : printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingD : else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tF : have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneD : with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it. :   C Look for a LPD package for the Windows system. This is the one I'm   using:  E    http://www.totalshareware.com/asp/detail_view.asp?application=9436 =    Mocha W32 LPD - Download - TotalShareware Software Archive       $ show queue/full sys$print  B    Server queue SYS$PRINT, idle, on JRLVAX::, mounted form DEFAULTG      /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FLAG,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] G      /PROCESSOR=UCX$LPD_SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 05:10:49 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)O Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN ; Message-ID: <3ea4b2b9.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   0 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: > VMSnewbie wrote:J > > I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantJ > > print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aH > > printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingF > > else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tH > > have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneF > > with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it. > I > If you have Reflection Suite, Chameleon or something else that provides D > an LPD service, simply setup the PC as the target of an LPD queue.  H WinNT provides LPD services in a package called "Simple TCP/IP Services"I (or so - translated from german "Einfache TCP/IP Dienste" - and even that  is from memory).  C I have successfully set those up to work with a TCPware LPS client.    cu,    Martin --  H    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de L    if only it came with     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:45:28 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed.H Message-ID: <cw_oa.96580$BQi.90095@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3EA211C1.2DAE5FE1@fsi.net...  > Keith Parris wrote: 
 > > [snip]D > > If you'd like to see OpenVMS topic forums, there's a "-> Contact HP" E > > link on the page -- please use it.  You might need to be prepared  to- > > include a list of discussion topic areas.  >  > List = all    D Actually the real reason HP does not list VMS on their forum site is5 that corporately they can't do as good a job a c.o.v.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:53:12 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed.' Message-ID: <3EA49278.78D11B63@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3EA211C1.2DAE5FE1@fsi.net...  > > Keith Parris wrote:  > > > [snip]F > > > If you'd like to see OpenVMS topic forums, there's a "-> Contact > HP" G > > > link on the page -- please use it.  You might need to be prepared  > to/ > > > include a list of discussion topic areas.  > >  > > List = all > F > Actually the real reason HP does not list VMS on their forum site is7 > that corporately they can't do as good a job a c.o.v.   C Considering the constituency here, how could they hope to match the & resources we have among the lot of us?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:51:20 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed./ Message-ID: <cm0pa.138$0m2.72@news.cpqcorp.net>   0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:E > Considering the constituency here, how could they hope to match the ( > resources we have among the lot of us?  D FWIW, the HP ITRC Forums do not try to "compete" with netnews.  SomeC customers wanted a web based discussion forum, so there is the ITRC A Forums.  I lurk in both, I suspect the "points" system is popular B among a goodly portion of the folks who use the ITRC Forums.  SomeF folks seem to use both - posting the same question in both "forums" atF the same time.  Somewhat frustrating when watching both the forums and netnews.  B At first blush, I can't see why they wouldn't be willing to createE some VMS-oriented forums if enough folks requested it. That of course F is my own otherwise il-informed speculation based on past interactions# with some of the forum maintainers.   
 rick jones --  = portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 20:52:39 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed.3 Message-ID: <z7XDpYP4RKJ1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3EA49278.78D11B63@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > John Smith wrote:   G >> Actually the real reason HP does not list VMS on their forum site is 8 >> that corporately they can't do as good a job a c.o.v. > E > Considering the constituency here, how could they hope to match the ( > resources we have among the lot of us?  3 Or maybe they cannot compete with "Ask the Wizard".    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:36:36 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>B Subject: Re: HP: IT resource center forums: Why is VMS not listed./ Message-ID: <3EA4B8C4.80E11F87@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote: F > Actually the real reason HP does not list VMS on their forum site is7 > that corporately they can't do as good a job a c.o.v.   J The one support model I would support is if HP were to setup a news serverD that would host NNTP based "forums" for support with long retention.K Macromedia did this and it works well. No ackward and slow HTML, just basic H text NEWS. That news server could also feed comp.os.vms as well as otherJ existing "Public" newsgroups that pertain to HP products. And it could addM private newsgroups that are not propagated to the rest of usenet for specific  product support.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:10:39 +0000 (UTC) 2 From: never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly , Message-ID: <b81mof$34t$2@reader1.panix.com>  , In article <b7uf0n72tlg@enews4.newsguy.com>,* J. Clarke  <nospam1@nospam.invalid> wrote:E >In article <m3smukiowo.fsf@elgin.eder.de>, Andreas.Eder@t-online.de   >says...5 >> rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  >>  H >> > Ask people who like prune juice why it's not as popular as Coke andI >> > I'm sure the answer you'll get is "Coca-Cola's marketing budget" ^.~  >>   >> And they are right about it. A >> Coke in drinking and McDonalds in eating are probably the best & >> equivalent to Windows in computing.  >> I much prefer the real stuff. > H >I wonder how much of a boost prune juice sales got after Worf declared ! >it to be a real warrior's drink?   . Is that because warriors are always on the go? --  % "You've got to think about tomorrow!"   K "TOMORROW!  I haven't even prepared for *_________yesterday* yet!"    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 12:36:34 -0700% From: sellis@legato.com (Shaun Ellis) 7 Subject: Re: Legato vs TSM for VMS backup pros and cons = Message-ID: <1faa9425.0304211136.10426b62@posting.google.com>   C We do not claim to be better than VMS Backup/image for restoring an C OpenVMS system disk. As you say, that would be ludicrious. However, & there are many ways around this issue.  F What we are better at is multistreaming to tape devices, something VMS% users have asked for for a long time. ' Tracking the media, and what is on it.  + Restoring a disk to an exact point in time.  Scheduling the backups.   F basically, if you look at all the advantages that NetWorker on OpenVMSF gives you, then the issue around the system disk is quite small. There* are, also, so many ways to crack that nut.   e.g.A Have a spare disk with NetWorker on it (How much does a disk cost  these days?). Boot into a cluster as a remote cluster client) Build a bootable CD with NetWorker on it.   C Even if it was using a spare disk, the money/time you save using an E automatic backup method more than outweighs the cost of a few hundred  $'s for a disk.   D BTW, just for the record, I used to be the Senior System Manager forA Digital IS in the North UK, and used to deliver consulting on the < automation of datacentres. I even worked for the SLS and ABSF engineering teams for a while. I left Digital/Compaq to join Legato in 1999 after 14 1/2 years.   regards    Shaun t prosullivan@aol.com (prosullivan@aol.com) wrote in message news:<a14b767a.0304050327.4c4cb979@posting.google.com>... > > > B > > >  o  This release will backup and restore a bootable OpenVMS = > > >     system disk.  All alias directories, including the  E > > >     SYSCOMMON.DIR directory which points to the VMS$COMMON.DIR  > > > >     directory, are now backed up and restored correctly.= > > >     System disk files that are required to be restored  < > > >     contiguously are now restored as contiguous files.. > > >     See Section 12 System Disk Backups.  > >  > > > Wow, thanks for the can of worms that this topic as opened.  > E > We did look at the Legato solution for OpenVMS Alpha and restored a D > system disk backup onto a system, but still had to make the systemH > disk bootable by issuing a "writeboot.exe" as the Legato documentationF > instructs. And there is the risk. You have to run this command everyF > time. In a DR situation, when the writeboot.exe doesn't work, LegatoH > or TSM can say 'look our product did what it said on the box', and the* > IT department are left holding the baby. > G > I don't fancy having to explain to my management why my backup system C > doesn't work: their answer would be: it appears you spend lots of G > [our] money on licenses, which restores a file-based backup only. TSM D > and Legato cannot therefore claim that their product offers betterA > functionality than VMS BACKUP/IMAGE for botable image restores.  >  > Back to the drawing board.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 12:45:32 -0700+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) . Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0304211145.3dbbb927@posting.google.com>   F April 21st, 2003 -- Dallas Texas.    The OpenVMS Hobbyist WEBsite justB received a facelift and  upgrade into the OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal.  G Anyone who is interested in HP's OpenVMS will find someting of interest  for them at the OpenVMS  Hobbyist Portal website!  E The OpenVMS Hobbyist WEBsite has been  the source on the Internet for.@ free OpenVMS and OpenVMS  Layered Product Licenses  for personalH non-business use of  the most highly available, scalable and  Enterprise9 class computer operating system in the Industry, OpenVMS.s  A The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal continues the tradition of supportingMD Hobbyists, computer collectors and  enthusiasts around the world notC only with free licenses, but with a new simpler domain name for theo' Portal and lots of updated information.    http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/P    E The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal  has a simplified, single page structured H process for obtaining OpenVMS  Hobbyist licenses and continues to  offerF OpenVMS Hobbyist CDroms at a hobbyist discounted prices for  those who' need an OpenVMS software distributions.o  E With the original website functions,  the OpenVMS Hobbyist portal has G new links  such as the OpenVMS  Hobbyist FAQ, OpenVMS Hobbyist Gallery, G DEC and Hobbyist History timelines, OpenVMS Hobbyist Artwork  (for yourc? fashionable webpages running on your OpenVMS Hobbyist Systems).t  ? The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal also has the best in OpenVMS Links,.E freeware, open source software, and  Third parties who participate ink the OpenVMS Hobbyist program.i  H VAX, Alpha and soon Itanium will be supported under the OpenVMS HobbyistF Program!  Visit the OpenVMS  Hobbyist Portal, Join a particpating User  C Group around the world and sign up for free use of OpenVMS  on your  personal systems today!C  & -- Dallas Ft Worth Computer User Group  #     David Cathey   DFWCUG President 9                    OpenVMS SIG Chair Encompass User Groupl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:02:29 -0700m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>P2 Subject: RE: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEJGHAAA.tom@kednos.com>s  F What appears to be missing, is a list of all third-party packages that( will operate under the hobbyist license.   >-----Original Message-----c3 >From: David L. Cathey [mailto:davidc@montagar.com]V& >Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 12:46 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release  >s > G >April 21st, 2003 -- Dallas Texas.    The OpenVMS Hobbyist WEBsite justlC >received a facelift and  upgrade into the OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal.M >dH >Anyone who is interested in HP's OpenVMS will find someting of interest >for them at the OpenVMS >Hobbyist Portal website!t >aF >The OpenVMS Hobbyist WEBsite has been  the source on the Internet forA >free OpenVMS and OpenVMS  Layered Product Licenses  for personal-I >non-business use of  the most highly available, scalable and  Enterpriseo: >class computer operating system in the Industry, OpenVMS. > B >The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal continues the tradition of supportingE >Hobbyists, computer collectors and  enthusiasts around the world notiD >only with free licenses, but with a new simpler domain name for the( >Portal and lots of updated information. >3  >http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ >o >eF >The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal  has a simplified, single page structuredI >process for obtaining OpenVMS  Hobbyist licenses and continues to  offer G >OpenVMS Hobbyist CDroms at a hobbyist discounted prices for  those who ( >need an OpenVMS software distributions. > F >With the original website functions,  the OpenVMS Hobbyist portal hasH >new links  such as the OpenVMS  Hobbyist FAQ, OpenVMS Hobbyist Gallery,H >DEC and Hobbyist History timelines, OpenVMS Hobbyist Artwork  (for your@ >fashionable webpages running on your OpenVMS Hobbyist Systems). >e@ >The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal also has the best in OpenVMS Links,F >freeware, open source software, and  Third parties who participate in >the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. >dI >VAX, Alpha and soon Itanium will be supported under the OpenVMS Hobbyist G >Program!  Visit the OpenVMS  Hobbyist Portal, Join a particpating UserP >fD >Group around the world and sign up for free use of OpenVMS  on your >personal systems today! >r' >-- Dallas Ft Worth Computer User Groupm > $ >    David Cathey   DFWCUG President: >                   OpenVMS SIG Chair Encompass User Group >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).pA >Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003e >n ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:30:16 -0400-0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release/ Message-ID: <3EA454D7.2FCFBAAD@vl.videotron.ca>-  
 Mr Cathay,  N does the new hobbyist web site reflect a chanmge in how the hobbysit programme> is being managed, or is it just something that you are doing ?  M If it is something that you continue to do on a volunteer basis, I think thataM you deserve to perhaps add some emphasis to Montagar since you *deserve* someD9 free publicity for the most excellent work you have done.     N Here is a suggestion: put up the distribution CDs online, and allow anyone whoI already has a hobbyist licence to download a certain amount per month. (I J think that providing recent copy of DCPS, for instance, would be great. ByM limiting the number of downloads per month, you'd limit the bandwidth needed.s  L And I think that such an endeavour would be a great pilot project for HP-VMS1 to test the waters of modern distribution medium.o   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 15:23:01 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: RE: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release3 Message-ID: <n+ln0yF6j5wl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEJGHAAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:oH > What appears to be missing, is a list of all third-party packages that* > will operate under the hobbyist license.  D 	http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/get_yer_licenses/third_party_sw.html  @ is incomplete, but the webmaster promises corrections if someoneC sends citations of a .gif image and a URL.  The contact form is at:o  * 	http://openvmshobbyist.org/webmaster.html   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:19:21 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Press Release@ Message-ID: <20030421231921.13407.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Better ! T  9 Put the hobbyst site under responsability of Ken Farmer! n. He knows how to develop an OpenVMS homepage !    www.openvms.org/openvmshobbyst   Regardsr   FC  5 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:r > Mr Cathay, > F > does the new hobbyist web site reflect a chanmge in how the hobbysit > programme @ > is being managed, or is it just something that you are doing ? > O > If it is something that you continue to do on a volunteer basis, I think that O > you deserve to perhaps add some emphasis to Montagar since you *deserve* some ; > free publicity for the most excellent work you have done.s >  > L > Here is a suggestion: put up the distribution CDs online, and allow anyone > who-K > already has a hobbyist licence to download a certain amount per month. (IvL > think that providing recent copy of DCPS, for instance, would be great. ByO > limiting the number of downloads per month, you'd limit the bandwidth needed.a > N > And I think that such an endeavour would be a great pilot project for HP-VMS3 > to test the waters of modern distribution medium.      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?- The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo  http://search.yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 18:17:22 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> < Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments6 Message-ID: <20030421181722.26875.qmail@nym.alias.net>  7 On Mon, 21 Apr 2003, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote:g  I >If *I* did a press interview and made certain statements *which I knew*  B >would garner the disapproval of either my employer or my current B >customer, it would be unrealistic of me to *not* expect negative D >ramifications as a direct result of my having made such statements.  K The general consensus that I see is that Theo is notorious for "open mouth,  insert foot" comments.  A >It's disingenuous, to say the least, for people to poke a stick aB >into the hornets' nest and then feign surprise at the subsequent ; >swarm of irate arthropods which results from their action./  I Quite. If you're going to comment on politics, at least try to be politic0	 about it.   A >Now, as to my hopes for a VMS-related discussion vis-a-vis this  F >development, I understand that DOD still uses VMS for many purposes, H >and it is my hope that this event increases the possibility that, with A >fewer *really secure* choices, they will do so for even longer.    ? I hope so too. As I pointed out, many of the resulting securitycK enhancements have been in VMS for a long time. Long enough to be considered J proven. The same can't be said for enhancements that are just implemented.     Doc. -- t: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 20:33:00 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <20030421203300.8228.qmail@gacracker.org>r  F On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:I >> Looks like Theo has a big mouth and a predeliction for seeing how many 
 >> feet heE >> can fit in it. It isn't easy to be sympathetic towards him when hei >> doesn't seem G >> to see any distinction between DARPA and the current administration.t >iM >That is the problem. At least outside the USA, people are seing a governmentyH >working very hard (and succeeding inside the USA) to quelch opposition.  F Damn it JF, you're "off-topic" for this already semi-off-topic thread.  H If it warms your heart that you aren't the only Canadian who has all theE tact of a bull in a china shop, so be it. I was trying to give people J enough information to reach a reasonably informed opinion on the politicalH aspects and steer discussion a little bit more towards WWWebb's intended
 direction.  I Didn't you notice that these enhancements to OpenBSD are getting heaps of K press and publicity out of this? Isn't there _someone_ in HP marketing that.I could say, "Excuse me, VMS has had all these features since version x.x"?D  H Anyway, I've spent a little time recently going through the VMS Hack FAQJ and correcting some of the grammatical errors. My apologies for the lengthH of this, but here is the entire item on the subject of Buffer Overflows.E Remember, this is what the guy with the back hat(*1) on is reading...h    '         15)   Buffer overflows/overrunsp2               ("Smashing VMS' stack for fun... ")   E         "Short answer: 'Yes' with an 'if' long answer: 'No' -- with at         'But'. a    a)         -- Rev. Lovejoy of The Simpsons. m  >         This is a hot topic that comes up from time to time onC         newsgroups such as comp.os.vms, and various #vms channels. c8         I'll attempt to address it as well as possible.   B         First off, to understand the basics of how buffer-overflowG         attacks work, you might want to read the classic, "Smashing the F         Stack for Fun and Profit".  This was written by Aleph One, and         you can read it at:   s8         http://www.vistech.net/users/beave/overflow.htmlK         http://www.cse.ogi.edu/DISC/projects/immunix/StackGuard/profit.htmlX  E         A buffer-overflow is done by passing data that is larger thaniD         the buffer size to code which fails to check its size.  WhenE         the data is stored, it over writes some memory beyond the endeA         of the buffer.  Part of the data overwritten on the stackyE         includes the return address.  The idea is for the 'hacker' togH         write a return address pointing to the address of his own code. E         Usually, the 'hackers' code will call a shell, thus elevatingb"         the 'hackers' privileges.   iD         In userland, there seems to be very little doubt that buffer<         overflows _will_ work.  The problem is, having a VMSF         _privileged_ image execute arbitrary code is difficult.  There%         are several reasons for this:   A         o  The OpenVMS core doesn't use C/C++ and zero-terminatednC            strings, but rather descriptors - a data structure whichtC            describes the data with information as to its length andT?            its location.  [Descriptors can also be used in C ass>            well!].  OpenVMS programmers also tend not to trust?            unchecked strings.  This does _not_ include possiblea6            third party TCP/IP stacks and applications!  B         o  OpenVMS memory protections are rather sophisticated and2            give better protection than most OSes.   C         o  OpenVMS incorporates a "non-executable" stack. This doesuC            not stop _all_ buffer overflow attacks, it does stop oneC            class of them.   E         o  "Daemons" (Known as 'detached processes' in the VMS world) D            can be run from a non-root account.  The process can thenB            execute installed images as needed.  [This is somethingF            thats starting to find its way into *nix type OSes as well]  >         o  A detached process that runs with privileges can beC            programmed in such a way that they are only enabled whenl            needed.    C         There are several interesting points brought up on Usenet. lD         Here's a related post by Brian Schenkenberger on comp.os.vms  ;         [Date: 2000/06/14, Subject: VMS Security features]:n    G        "Stack regions are carved out of VMS process P1 address space.   D         This is the 32 bit addressable virtual address region which F         starts at address 7FFFFFFF hex and grows downward to 40000000 A         hex.  The act of pushing something on the stack involved cD         decrementing the value of the stack pointer used to address J         the stack and then move the value to this newly derived address.  D         In VMS, the less privied stacks (sans the user stack) start H         with the less privied stack in the higher address locations --  K         SUPERVISOR, EXECUTIVE and then KERNEL.  The access mode protections E         keep stack overruns in these mods from corrupting inner mode fB         stacks.  The kernel stack has guard pages at its extremes H         because of the nature of kernel mode.  Thus under and over runs H         in kernel mode will cause an ACCVIO.  The USER mode stack grows K         downward from the very lowest portion of P1 space (CTL$GL_CTLBASVA)bG         to the virtual maximum of 40000000 hex.  USER mode stack space r=         is created and destroyed with each image activation. n  F         It simply doesn't matter.  IF YOU DO NOT POSSESS THE PRIVILEGEG         AND YOU HAVE NOT ATTAINED THE PROCESSOR ACCESS MODE NEEDED, YOU:5         CAN NOT WRITE TO A PRIVIED ACCESS MODE STACK.   F         Buffer overruns are also checked in system service routines --B         the ultimate API in most all of the run-time libraries andF         other APIs in VMS.  One poster pointed out to you that data isF         passed to these services in the form of a descriptor -- a dataE         structure which describes the data with information as to itsp?         length and its location.  These services then check thesA         accessiblity of the data with access probing instructionshE         (PROBEx).  These probes are done using the "previous" mode oftD         the caller.  Thus, if you've not attained a specified accessC         mode, you can not ask a system service to perform some taskrF         which would corrupt the mechanisms which the particular system3         service is designed control or manipulate."i  ;         [Usenet: Comp.os.vms:  From: Keith Parris, Subject:aD         Relative invulnerablility of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks.         Date: 2002-04-03]a  G         "The Alpha memory management architecture provides some bits intG          the Page Table Entries (PTEs) that control what type of accesscD          is allowed to memory.  For example, a read-only page can beH          protected by having the Fault-On-Write bit set, and any attemptH          to write the page causes a fault and results in a memory accessA          violation error.  Alpha also has a Fault-On-Execute bit,2H          designed to prevent an errant program from jumping off into the>          weeds and trying to execute data as instructions.  OnD          Alpha/VMS, the user stack is mapped with PTEs that have theE          Fault-On-Execute bit set, so any attempt to branch into data B          area on the stack results in an access violation, and the          process dies."r         <         - Vendors still tend to install things with unneeded           privilegesE         (give a example of BYPASS because it "needs to read files"). r    I Notice the date of Brian's quoted post? Nearly 3 years ago. It wasn't hott; news for VMS people then, but it is for OpenBSD people now.i  J So, whilst there might be *ix flavours that now boast many of the securityD features of VMS, they can't claim to have been deployed in the field: (desert, sky, whatever...) for a prolonged period of time.     Doc.B [(*1) - Mine's a nice fedora that I only wear when it's cold. ;-}] --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netnK                                                    http://althacker.cjb.netW   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:01:37 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>r< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments' Message-ID: <3EA49471.A12AE59E@fsi.net>r   Bill Todd wrote: > [snip]' > Not one of your better efforts, Dave.   3 Arne seemed to grasp it. That's good enough for me.t   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:07:42 -0400e2 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <20030422010742.GG22911@eisenschmidt.org>   < This is an excellent post, and I won't even try to disagree.  . I have but four words, given each in two sets: 	-"open source"D 	-"commodity parts"V  E I won't even try the "free" part because of the hobbiest program, but0@ if you're looking for an open source OS that one can run on fast$ commodity parts, then VMS is not it.  E But if HP wants to change that, I'll be happy to adopt a change in myo message headers...  F Rumor has it that Doc.Cypher (Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]) said:H > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: > >"Doc.Cypher" wrote:K > >> Looks like Theo has a big mouth and a predeliction for seeing how many- > >> feet heG > >> can fit in it. It isn't easy to be sympathetic towards him when he  > >> doesn't seemoI > >> to see any distinction between DARPA and the current administration.  > >iO > >That is the problem. At least outside the USA, people are seing a government J > >working very hard (and succeeding inside the USA) to quelch opposition. > H > Damn it JF, you're "off-topic" for this already semi-off-topic thread. > J > If it warms your heart that you aren't the only Canadian who has all theG > tact of a bull in a china shop, so be it. I was trying to give peopleeL > enough information to reach a reasonably informed opinion on the politicalJ > aspects and steer discussion a little bit more towards WWWebb's intended > direction. > K > Didn't you notice that these enhancements to OpenBSD are getting heaps of M > press and publicity out of this? Isn't there _someone_ in HP marketing thatyK > could say, "Excuse me, VMS has had all these features since version x.x"?/ > J > Anyway, I've spent a little time recently going through the VMS Hack FAQL > and correcting some of the grammatical errors. My apologies for the lengthJ > of this, but here is the entire item on the subject of Buffer Overflows.G > Remember, this is what the guy with the back hat(*1) on is reading...r >  > ) >         15)   Buffer overflows/overrunst4 >               ("Smashing VMS' stack for fun... ")  > G >         "Short answer: 'Yes' with an 'if' long answer: 'No' -- with ao >         'But'. n >    f+ >         -- Rev. Lovejoy of The Simpsons. V > @ >         This is a hot topic that comes up from time to time onE >         newsgroups such as comp.os.vms, and various #vms channels. e: >         I'll attempt to address it as well as possible.  > D >         First off, to understand the basics of how buffer-overflowI >         attacks work, you might want to read the classic, "Smashing theLH >         Stack for Fun and Profit".  This was written by Aleph One, and >         you can read it at:  >  ,: >         http://www.vistech.net/users/beave/overflow.htmlM >         http://www.cse.ogi.edu/DISC/projects/immunix/StackGuard/profit.html_ > G >         A buffer-overflow is done by passing data that is larger thaniF >         the buffer size to code which fails to check its size.  WhenG >         the data is stored, it over writes some memory beyond the end3C >         of the buffer.  Part of the data overwritten on the stack G >         includes the return address.  The idea is for the 'hacker' to J >         write a return address pointing to the address of his own code. G >         Usually, the 'hackers' code will call a shell, thus elevatinga$ >         the 'hackers' privileges.  >  TF >         In userland, there seems to be very little doubt that buffer> >         overflows _will_ work.  The problem is, having a VMSH >         _privileged_ image execute arbitrary code is difficult.  There' >         are several reasons for this:a > C >         o  The OpenVMS core doesn't use C/C++ and zero-terminatediE >            strings, but rather descriptors - a data structure which E >            describes the data with information as to its length and A >            its location.  [Descriptors can also be used in C asu@ >            well!].  OpenVMS programmers also tend not to trustA >            unchecked strings.  This does _not_ include possibles8 >            third party TCP/IP stacks and applications! > D >         o  OpenVMS memory protections are rather sophisticated and4 >            give better protection than most OSes.  > E >         o  OpenVMS incorporates a "non-executable" stack. This doesdE >            not stop _all_ buffer overflow attacks, it does stop one/ >            class of them.  > G >         o  "Daemons" (Known as 'detached processes' in the VMS world) F >            can be run from a non-root account.  The process can thenD >            execute installed images as needed.  [This is somethingH >            thats starting to find its way into *nix type OSes as well] > @ >         o  A detached process that runs with privileges can beE >            programmed in such a way that they are only enabled when  >            needed. >  > E >         There are several interesting points brought up on Usenet. eF >         Here's a related post by Brian Schenkenberger on comp.os.vms > = >         [Date: 2000/06/14, Subject: VMS Security features]:n >  > I >        "Stack regions are carved out of VMS process P1 address space.  dF >         This is the 32 bit addressable virtual address region which H >         starts at address 7FFFFFFF hex and grows downward to 40000000 C >         hex.  The act of pushing something on the stack involved eF >         decrementing the value of the stack pointer used to address L >         the stack and then move the value to this newly derived address.  F >         In VMS, the less privied stacks (sans the user stack) start J >         with the less privied stack in the higher address locations --  M >         SUPERVISOR, EXECUTIVE and then KERNEL.  The access mode protectionslG >         keep stack overruns in these mods from corrupting inner mode lD >         stacks.  The kernel stack has guard pages at its extremes J >         because of the nature of kernel mode.  Thus under and over runs J >         in kernel mode will cause an ACCVIO.  The USER mode stack grows M >         downward from the very lowest portion of P1 space (CTL$GL_CTLBASVA)/I >         to the virtual maximum of 40000000 hex.  USER mode stack space o? >         is created and destroyed with each image activation. : > H >         It simply doesn't matter.  IF YOU DO NOT POSSESS THE PRIVILEGEI >         AND YOU HAVE NOT ATTAINED THE PROCESSOR ACCESS MODE NEEDED, YOUs7 >         CAN NOT WRITE TO A PRIVIED ACCESS MODE STACK.t > H >         Buffer overruns are also checked in system service routines --D >         the ultimate API in most all of the run-time libraries andH >         other APIs in VMS.  One poster pointed out to you that data isH >         passed to these services in the form of a descriptor -- a dataG >         structure which describes the data with information as to its A >         length and its location.  These services then check theeC >         accessiblity of the data with access probing instructionsiG >         (PROBEx).  These probes are done using the "previous" mode of F >         the caller.  Thus, if you've not attained a specified accessE >         mode, you can not ask a system service to perform some taskrH >         which would corrupt the mechanisms which the particular system5 >         service is designed control or manipulate."p > = >         [Usenet: Comp.os.vms:  From: Keith Parris, Subject:nF >         Relative invulnerablility of VMS to buffer-overflow attacks. >         Date: 2002-04-03]H > I >         "The Alpha memory management architecture provides some bits inmI >          the Page Table Entries (PTEs) that control what type of accessnF >          is allowed to memory.  For example, a read-only page can beJ >          protected by having the Fault-On-Write bit set, and any attemptJ >          to write the page causes a fault and results in a memory accessC >          violation error.  Alpha also has a Fault-On-Execute bit,oJ >          designed to prevent an errant program from jumping off into the@ >          weeds and trying to execute data as instructions.  OnF >          Alpha/VMS, the user stack is mapped with PTEs that have theG >          Fault-On-Execute bit set, so any attempt to branch into data3D >          area on the stack results in an access violation, and the >          process dies."o
 >         > >         - Vendors still tend to install things with unneeded >           privilegesG >         (give a example of BYPASS because it "needs to read files").   >  > K > Notice the date of Brian's quoted post? Nearly 3 years ago. It wasn't hoto= > news for VMS people then, but it is for OpenBSD people now.s > L > So, whilst there might be *ix flavours that now boast many of the securityF > features of VMS, they can't claim to have been deployed in the field< > (desert, sky, whatever...) for a prolonged period of time. >  >  > Doc.D > [(*1) - Mine's a nice fedora that I only wear when it's cold. ;-}] > -- r8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.M > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net3M >                                                    http://althacker.cjb.net:   -- y/ John W. Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org)I.   http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/pgp.html  K "We live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious @L election results that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where K we have a man who's sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it's t: the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts."6 			    -Michael Moore, Academy Awards (March 23, 2003)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:05:40 -0400b  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments5 Message-ID: <1030421215959.2426B-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, AG wrote:  ? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messager+ > news:3EA24112.54DC3C74@vl.videotron.ca...w > > David Froble wrote:uK > > > "I don't accept money with rules."  Now there is a rather interesting  > statement.F > > >   If you have a job, there are rules on what you do to get paid. > > L > > However, if you are a volunteer who gets a grant in order to continue toC > > produce a piece of software,  you are never "working for them".1 > @ > A bit of a moot point. If you are accepting the money in order> > to keep working on your favorite project - then yes, you are9 > working for whoever pays the money even though you liker? > working on that project yourself. If you don't need/want thatp> > funding - don't take it. If you do accept it and then objectB > to the policies of the grantor - is the grantor under obligation9 > to keep funding you even if you two are now in a strong,6 > disagreement? If so, why? Remember - you claimed you< > are not working for the grantor so there is no contractual> > obligation on either part (except what may have been written> > in the terms of the grant but I gather that's not a question > in this case)s > : > The original statement said, in part, that the recipient: > of that grant was "uncomfortable" about it. So, perhaps,( > it was a favor to terminate the grant? >  > > Should youB > > have to shut up and be prevented from voicing personal views ? > 9 > No. Should the grantor have to shut up and be preventedM= > from voicing it's views or excersice his/her/it's judgements# > as to how to allocate that grant?t  % Excuse me, I must have missed it whenn@ Bush/Chaney/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft/Wolfowitz/etc. were prevented from@ voicing their views.  When did this happen?  I think it would be> big news and on all the TV stations and in all the newspapers.D I just saw Rumsfeld on CNN the other day, and he didn't say anything6 about it.  You would think he would have mentioned it.   -- d John Santosa Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:53:57 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments. Message-ID: <1030421221146.2426C@Ives.egh.com>  & On 20 Apr 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  + > In article <3EA28773.5050700@vajhoej.dk>,a, > =09Arne Vajh=F8j <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:J > > > It has little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.< > > > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. > > >iC > > > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?d > >=20* > > It has very much to do with democracy. > >=20> > > If people are not allowed to say what they think about the= > > war in Iraq without loosing their jobs, then it starts tob? > > sound much like the old eastern europe during the cold war.  >=20L > Who lost their job?  Was Theo an employee of the US DOD (who funds DARPA)= ?h  < Someone made the argument that he was, and it was used as an! excuse for terminating the grant.e  J > What we really have here is Agency A says to Group B, "I have some extraH > money and I am willing to fund your project."  Group B says "OK, but IF > think your a jerk."  Agency A says "If you feel like that, I'll findJ > someone else who will appreciate the favor."  Actually, both of them areJ > merely making expressions.  One is just as much about free speech as the > other.  A No, Theo made a statement.  That is speech.  DARPA terminated hisT3 grant.  That is an act.  Not the same thing at all.a  @   There is no requirement for DARPA to fund the OpenBSD Project.4 > They offered the help and were insulted in return.  A This sounds like they were negotiating a grant, and DARPA decided A against it because they didn't like what Theo said.  This ignores A the fact that the grant was already made, and was then cancelled.o     The funding will now, K > as it should, go somewhere else to someone who will appreciate the favor.nK > Work on secure OSes at government expense will not stop.  Look at the NSAoD > Secure Linux Project (most of which could probably be conceptuallyH > incorporated into the BSD's as well).  The only thing that is going to2 > change is who gets the grant money for the work.  C Presumably either someone who agrees with the Bush administration's < policy or someone is willing to give up an essential liberty? (freedom of speech) for a little temporary security (of a job),o" to paraphrase someone here's .sig.  4 > > Lots of critical intellectual had very difficult4 > > getting a job, because they stated their opinion# > > about the communist government.i >=20I > But, we're not talking about a job with a the party with the money.  WeiI > are talking about a favor that was repiad with insults.  One is free topK > hold and express any opinion they wish.  But it is unreasonable to expectaL > that if you insult someone who is doing you a favor that they will contin= ue > to do you favors.a  C Grants are a favor?  Sounds like something out of the 17th Century.i  6 > > Not a very good model for how to do things, if you > > ask me.  >=20H > I agree.  If you think the money from DARPA is "Iraq blood money" then, > you are a hypocrit if you still accept it. >=20 > >=203 > > In a free society you are allowed to speak youri0 > > political views without consequences (within5 > > certain limitatations given by the law ofcourse).- > >- >=20H > That's not actually true.  Everything we do has consequences.  And oneI > must be prepared to accept them if they shoose to take actions that are $ > likely to be unfavorably received.  @ Right, and when "we" is the government, acting for all of us (orD so they claim), we need to discuss the consequences of those actionsD before, during and after.  But if you express your opinion about theC consequences of those actions, and you disagree with the "official"mB government view of those consequences, you are liable to be fired?A Where have we seen a government that operated on those principlesr@ recently?  Oh, yeah, in Baghdad.  That didn't work out too well, did it?y  $   I don't believe in the speed limitK > on the highways.  I drive cars capable of handling higher speeds.  But ifiG > I choose to make my statement (under freedom of speech/expression) bynJ > exceeding that speed limit, then I must be prepared to be stopped, cited0 > and fined.  The constitution not withstanding.  E Once again, you are confusing actions with speech.  (Maybe you shouldyD use the sticks and stones and broken bones rule.  Talking about whatC the speed limit should be or even if it should exist is speech.  It G can't break anyone's bones.  Hitting someone at 100 MPH will definitelya break their bones.)n  5 > > It is also well-known that you get the wealthiestb4 > > socity by having the jobs done by those with the1 > > best skills instead of those popular with theo4 > > government (that was another huge problem in the > > old east block). >=20D > One is not mutually exclusive of the other.  I have worked for theH > government (and even DOD) in the past and known many extremely skilledJ > persons.  It is also not germane to the argument.  Actually, DARPA couldL > have taken the money and hired the best people they could find,  And, kep= trJ > the results of their work private.  Instead, they chose to try to funnelI > some of that money to the open source community, which repaid the favor,H > with insults.  I would think to any reasonable person, the outcome was
 > obvious.  A Actually, I think the whole purpose of DARPA is to fund work thatd@ ends up in the public domain.  Other parts of the DOD can and doF fund work that is kept private (or top secret), but that is completelyC irrelevent.  The fact that there are skilled people working for the @ government doesn't disprove Arne's argument.  There are fewer of> them if people who disagree with the administration's policies? are excluded, and the longer this situation prevails, the worse B the situation will get.  It took decades for Eastern Europe to get= as bad as it did.  It's only been a year and a half since then@ "patriot" act.  Which coincidently seems closer to something theB English Parliament would have imposed on the colonies than to whatC the people who died in 1775 (about 500 feet from where I am sitting- right now) believed in.0   > bill   --=20  John Santosi Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:02:58 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>nN Subject: Re: Personal Firewalls - was Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejectedH Message-ID: <CM_oa.96616$BQi.76067@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:Fn1234baz$ZE@elias.decus.ch...m@ > In article <20030414110902.10.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher+ <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:eB > > On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >>JF Mezei wrote:  > >>>i > >>> Paul Sture wrote:cC > >>> > pretty scathing about "personal firewalls" such as BlackIceS Defender ore# > >>> > ZoneAlarm. Here's the link:m/ > >>> > http://www.samspade.org/d/persfire.htmli: > >>> > and '"Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil' at0 > >>> > http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html > >>>oA > >>> Is there anyone who really beleived that a piece of windowse software could: > >>> ever protect its own instance of a windows machine ? > >>? > >>A port sniffer type worm or virus is blocked by firewalling0) > >>applications, so there is some value.t > ><@ > > Since I started using Kerio on my PC, I'd say these software firewalls doF > > have some value. Every layer of security you can add helps make anF > > intrusion more difficult. Comparing Kerio with ZoneAlarm, I'd call they > > latter a toy.e > >t >dE > I was hoping someone might jump in with a reference to Kerio, since + > that's what Huntler Goatley recommends atn > - >      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/w2k.htmlm >bE > I somehow suspect that Hunter knows a bit more than me about TCP/IP,/ > (understatement of the year?), hence my post.a    B a review appears in www.apcmag.com , in an article entitled "Great# Walls of Fire", posted March 14/03,1F http://www.apcmag.com/apc/apcmag.nsf/1_alldocs/B2B4598F76F7137CCA256CD	 90001FC75r   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:58:26 +0000 (UTC) ) From: Dan Foster <dsf@globalcrossing.net>rV Subject: Re: Press Release for OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Update Feel free to  distribute3 Message-ID: <slrnba94ti.t9g.dsf@gaia.roc2.gblx.net>   X In article <3EA4952D.8D077A03@fsi.net>, David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > Sue Skonetski wrote:	 >> [snip] " >> http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/ >> iH >> The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal  has a simplified, single page structuredD >> process for obtaining OpenVMS  Hobbyist licenses and continues toD >> offer OpenVMS Hobbyist CDroms at a hobbyist discounted prices for4 >> those who need an OpenVMS software distributions.	 >> [snip]e& >>     David Cathey   DFWCUG President< >>                    OpenVMS SIG Chair Encompass User Group > C > Kudos to Dave & Co. for presenting this in a more newbie-friendly  > format. Many thanx!d  J Hear, hear! I know I appreciate all the hard work to date - I've benefitedJ from some of it, and even for the parts that doesn't benefit me, I'm stillG appreciative of the donation of time and resources towards a worthwhilen cause.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:04:45 -0500_1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>yY Subject: Re: Press Release for OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal Update Feel free to distribute dis-' Message-ID: <3EA4952D.8D077A03@fsi.net>r   Sue Skonetski wrote: > [snip]! > http://www.openvmshobbyist.org/e > G > The OpenVMS Hobbyist Portal  has a simplified, single page structured C > process for obtaining OpenVMS  Hobbyist licenses and continues toAC > offer OpenVMS Hobbyist CDroms at a hobbyist discounted prices forn3 > those who need an OpenVMS software distributions.  > [snip]% >     David Cathey   DFWCUG Presidente; >                    OpenVMS SIG Chair Encompass User Group   A Kudos to Dave & Co. for presenting this in a more newbie-friendlyg format. Many thanx!.   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE SystemsT http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:44:36 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Scaling of HELP libraries/ Message-ID: <3EA4C8AF.99C18122@vl.videotron.ca>e  J I have tasked myself to produce a help library (and bookreader version) of2 some 600 callable routines split in a few classes.   I have a few questions:f  K Currently, I am looking at using VAX Document to produce both. But decisiony not written in stone.e  K I'd like to make something which is easy/quick to use.  So I have to decide F between a help file that has a single layer with 600 top level entries   HELP/LIBRARY=XXX routine     versus    HELP/LIBRARY=xxx chapter routine  L Or should I go with totally different libraries and books for each chapter ?  J Also, is there a way to have a separate .HLB somewhat "installed" into the HELPLIB.HLB so that I can just s  K $HELP chapter routine  and it will automatically fetch the "routine" in the0 appropiate separate .HLB file ?A  M The thing is that for the bookreader version, there are links (hotspots). FornM instance, while reading the section on a routine, it may point to a structure0J that is defined/explained elsewhere, so keeping all those in the same bookL would allow this, splitting it into different books would make it impossible (or very hard).f   Comments ? Suggestions ?   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Apr 2003 13:07:10 -0700% From: sellis@legato.com (Shaun Ellis) ' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSm= Message-ID: <1faa9425.0304211207.2d6ef472@posting.google.com>r  E Legato Networker is the only solution today that will give you directaC access to tape devices from your OpenVMS system in a heteroenegeous B backup scenario. The StorSol solution is a client only. Veritas is1 client only. Data Protector is not available yet.   4 We can share tape devices with other OS and OpenVMS.  E Now as to your original question. You need an HBA in the machine. YouiD need a FC switch, and depending on the drives you may need a FC/SCSIF router. I would advise using the FC/SCSI Router rather than FC drives,A especially when using Windows in teh same environment, as WindowstF believes it owns everything and does SCSI bus resets - not good duringD a backup! On a scsi/fc router (nsr is an example) you can block scsiE bus resets. BTW, both STK and HP OEM crossroads FC/SCSI routers. Theyg also both OEM Brocade switches.h  C Next question is on the tape drive technology. VMS doe snot supporthD LTO (Ultrium-1) There is an issue with teh deisgn and odd numbers ofB bytes (65535 bytes is th ebest for VMS backup). It does support HPD LTO-2. I don't know about 9840/9940. I'm currently trying to get the info from STK.   Hope that helpst   Shaun Ellis % netWorker for OpenVMS Product Manager  Legato Systems Inc   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:39:38 GMTc# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman).* Subject: Re: system tools cd mount problem/ Message-ID: <_i%oa.133$Bf2.39@news.cpqcorp.net>a  e In article <ea44f5a1.0304171146.6adb364a@posting.google.com>, tadamsmar@yahoo.com (Tom Adams) writes: B :When I try to mount the system tools CD (September 1999) I get a: :,% :MOUNT-F-NONEXPR, nonexistent process  ..C :I am trying to put a version of Compaq Analyze on a system that iswE :running 7.2-1, so I was going back to an earlier System Tools CD to  F :try to find a version of Compaq Analyze that is consistent with 7.2-1  F   This error implies a failure within the file system ACP startup for D   the particular CD-ROM device format.  Causes can range from buggy H   media formats to insufficient process slots available for the creation   of the ACP process.   H   I would first look for and would apply all mandatory ECO kits, and forI   any other ECO kits specifically for MOUNT, the file system, and the I/O K   stack.  Also for available process slots and system resources, of course.uH   (To find mandatory kits, see the ECO search engine listed in the FAQ.)  H   Sometimes the accounting record of the ACP startup -- assuming the ACPG   startup has gotten that far and has then failed -- can provide clues.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:23:32 -0700s From: "JeffK." <uce@ftc.gov>) Subject: Re: Unix,VMS,Wintel connectivitya' Message-ID: <3EA44534.342420F2@ftc.gov>c  3 Client/Server.  One name popping up is TAO - Corba.t   TIA,   JeffK.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:48:51 -0500h/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>o; Subject: Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensen 3 Message-ID: <3EA49172.A0361FB0@applied-synergy.com>t   Philip Lewis wrote:  > ) > For any budding Jensen users out there.c > L > I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controller in myF > Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by theL > firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive made allH > the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess itN > cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  Too bad, asJ > I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and the 1GB! > disks are too small these days.e  @ The 1742A is a narrow controller.  The RZ29B-VW is a wide drive.  G How are you terminating the upper byte of the bus?  What is the SCSI IDl
 of the drive?   G -----------------------------------------------------------------------0$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 01:20:01 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)p; Subject: Re: Useless hard disk RZ29B-W information - Jensenl0 Message-ID: <5N0pa.140$0r2.121@news.cpqcorp.net>  e In article <3EA49172.A0361FB0@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:e :Philip Lewis wrote: :> r* :> For any budding Jensen users out there. :>  M :> I tried to put an RZ29B-W with an an adapter on the 1742A controller in my G :> Jensen (the only device on the cable).  It was not recognised by theCM :> firmware/card/whatever using show SHOW DEV, even though the drive made all I :> the right sounds while the machine went through self test.  I guess ithM :> cannot deal with the wide to narrow conversion and termination.  Too bad, aK :> as I intended to install VMS on that disk, since the 2.1GB died and the P& :> 1GB disks are too small these days. : A :The 1742A is a narrow controller.  The RZ29B-VW is a wide drive.P :IH :How are you terminating the upper byte of the bus?  What is the SCSI ID :of the drive?  F   You'd need to use a low-numbered SCSI address, and a narrow-to-wide D   adapter.  Most recent narrow devices and all wide devices are wideF   friendly -- older narrow devices tend to be a problem on wide buses,/   as they can clamp what they should not clamp.t  G   The DEC 2000 model 300 (and model 500, and the DECpc 150 AXP variant)tI   series implementation with the Adaptec 1742A controller is an extremelycI   sensitive storage configuration, and particularly to SCSI cable lengthsoK   and cable relections.  You cannot have a SCSI bus with drives both inside K   and outside the box, for instance -- the resulting configuration will notcG   be particularly reliable nor stable.  (The Adaptec 1740 and 1742A arecJ   both fast-capable and (IIRC) SCSI-2, meaning the cable length is limitedI   to 3 meters and proper termination is critical -- and in my experience,fH   a SCSI bus even approaching the rated bus length is often questionable   in its reliability.)  K   I have no idea if anyone has tried using a Jensen with more recent disks, H   but I'd be cautious about the cooling whenever using a newer SCSI diskI   inside an older enclosure.  These older enclosures tend to cook drives.aH   My preference would be for an external enclosure, and particularly oneE   that is rated for the (usually newer, and often hotter) SCSI drive.e  H   I also have no idea if you have a chance of getting anything as new asG   an RZ29 -- narrow or wide -- working on this platform.  The following D   are the typical drives: RZ24L, RZ25, RZ25L, RZ26, RZ26L, and RZ28.  (   The Adaptec firmware ROMs must be G.1.  H   The default terminator pack location is inside the box, on the AdaptecH   board.  (Many tend to get pulled and pitched in favor of external SCSI%   termination, but every so often...)d  H   As this system is centrally EISA, you'll need to acquire the ECU tool.E   (This floppy has to be ordered if you don't already have it, as they=   encumbrances preclude offering it via direct FTP download.)i  F   I'd toss this box in favor of an AlphaStation or AlphaServer and PCIC   bus I/O.  (Operating with the EISA bus is too much like work. :-)h  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:23:05 GMTe, From: "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org>) Subject: Re: VAX C++ 5.6 install questionv/ Message-ID: <t3%oa.130$8p2.73@news.cpqcorp.net>:  L > The big question is why Digital allow that kit out with such poor testing.  J I believe this kit was originally released back in 1999. I think somethingF changed in newer versions of VMS and that is when the kit installation= procedure broke. A fix for this problem was made available to B customers with support contracts in about June of 2000. I may be a0 little hazy on the history, it has been a while.  D A new kit that fixes this problem, as well as a couple others is now available on the web at:  I ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/c-cxx/openvms/cxx/cxxe01056c.dcx_vaxexe4    &              ECO NUMBER:     CXXE01056=              PRODUCT:        Compaq C++ V5.6C for OpenVMS VAXf        ,                                 COVER LETTER     1  KIT NAME:        CXXE01056     2  KITS SUPERSEDED BY THIS KIT:o  	      NONEm     3  KIT DEPENDENCIES:  	      NONEo     4  KIT DESCRIPTION:o  A      4.1  Version(s) of OpenVMS to which this kit may be applied:a         OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 - V7.2-1    $      4.2  Files patched or replaced:  1      o  [SYSEXE]CXX$LINK.EXE          (new image)71      o  [SYSMSG]CXX$LINK_MSG.EXE      (new image)i:      o  [SYSLIB]LIBCXXSTD.OLB         (new object library)    & 5  PROBLEMS ADDRESSED IN CXXE01056 KIT  F     o  A memory leak was fixed in the exceptions support package whichG        would leak per-thread memory when exceptions were thrown. (4839)   E     o  The Compaq C++ V5.6C help file incorrectly pointed the user to G        SYS$HELP:CXX060.RELEASE_NOTES.  This has been corrected to pointr&        to CXX056.RELEASE_NOTES. (4862)  E     o  Unintentional changes were made to the CXXLINK facility in the-G        Compaq C++ V5.6C kit.  This ECO kit reverts the CXXLINK facilitya         back to the V5.6 CXXLINK.  D     o  The kit installation procedure no longer manipulates debuggerD        logical names which cause the installation to fail on OpenVMS        VAX V7.2 systems.       6  KIT INSTALLATION RATING:a  B      The following kit installation rating, based upon current CLDD      information, is provided to serve as a guide to which customersG      should apply this remedial kit.  (Reference attached Disclaimer oft4      Warranty and Limitation of Liability Statement)        INSTALLATION RATING:   A        3 : To be installed by customers experiencing the problems             corrected.i       7  INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS:   D      Install this kit with the VMSINSTAL utility by logging into the@      SYSTEM account, and typing the following at the DCL prompt:  >      @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL CXXE01056 [location of the saveset]  F      The saveset location may be a tape drive, CD, or a disk directory#      that contains the kit saveset.'      F      Copyright Compaq Computer Corporation, 2000  All Rights Reserved.@      Unpublished rights reserved under the copyright laws of the      United States.   H      The software contained on this media is proprietary to and embodies@      the confidential technology of Compaq Computer Corporation.C      Possession, use, or dissemination of the software and media isbD      authorized only pursuant to a valid written license from Compaq      Computer Corporation.    7      DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY,  E      THIS PATCH IS PROVIDED AS IS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND.  ALLnC      EXPRESS OR IMPLIED CONDITIONS, REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES,rC      INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FORoH      PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT, ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED TO THED      EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.  IN NO EVENT WILL COMPAQ BEE      LIABLE FOR ANY LOST REVENUE OR PROFIT, OR FOR SPECIAL, INDIRECT,eF      CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, HOWEVER CAUSED ANDE      REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY, WITH RESPECT TO ANY PATCHu5      MADE AVAILABLE HERE OR TO THE USE OF SUCH PATCH.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:53:22 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status reportH Message-ID: <CD_oa.96597$BQi.32949@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message> news:pdBla.807$BQi.442@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...A > A little over a week ago, a colleague and I were discussing theoF > current worldwide HP advertising campaign and the lack of mention of> > VMS anywhere in this advertising blitz, in any media, in any country. >tD > So we sat down and wrote up a few comments and questions about VMSD > advertising and marketing and he sent them off to carly, Marcello, and ( > Gorham. In part the comments included,   <snip> >sD > I just wanted to let everyone here know that I will be keeping you all B > informed on a weekly basis, or sooner, of any responses received from0 > carly and her minions, or Marcello, or Gorham.    A Well here it is a little over 2 weeks since messages were sent to  carly, Marcello, and Gorham.  F Since that time, Sue Skonetski has been in touch with me to help trackF the messages down inside the great gaping maw of HP's mail system, andB I sent her copies of the messages sent to the people listed above.  B For the record, there's been no response from carly other than theD autoresponder, and none from Marcello or Gorham ...other than by Sue  looking for the original e-mail.  @ We've had Easter and SARS and a war in the way over the past few? weeks, so it is expected that the HP honcho's might not responde rapidly. So we wait some more.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:55:36 -0400l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report/ Message-ID: <3EA4BD36.A297A56C@vl.videotron.ca>d   John Smith wrote:1B > We've had Easter and SARS and a war in the way over the past fewA > weeks, so it is expected that the HP honcho's might not respondd  > rapidly. So we wait some more.  M SARS may be big news in Toronto, but it is something that "happens elsewhere"mJ in the USA so I doubt  Carly, Marcello and Gorham are personally affected,T with paerhaps just a few business trips to Toronto or Hong Kong/Singapore cancelled.  I Easter would have been a perfect time sicne the day off allows those busyt6 execs to catch up on the types of email you have sent.  N As far as the invasion of Iraq, the only impact I can see is Carly lobying theN republican party to get some of the reconstruction money/contracts. But should* never prevent her from dealing with these.  N The problem with sending a message to 3 people at different levels (especiallyJ if you bypass a few layers between Marcello and Carly), is that there is aK tendancy for Carly to pass it down to the level below her. And the MArcello D and Gorham have to wait to see what Carly's response will have been.  M It may have been better to have sent the message to Carly only, with a BCC to D sue to *INFORMALLY* let her know what is going on. Sue can then keepM Marcello/Gorham *informally* informed that some customers have taken such and N such action and are awaiting a response. Sue can also *informatlly* inform youQ if she hears that the message has been passed along down the management hiearchy.t  N At some point, if Carly does not respond, you resend the message, this time toN Marcello, explaining that Carly had not responded to the concerns, and tellingE marcello that the lack of response is an example which leades so many M customers to doubt HP's true commitment to VMS. (eg: at that point, the issue I is no longer the contents of yor original message, but rather the lack ofi response to that message).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 23:17:00 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)f> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?/ Message-ID: <MZ_oa.129$Bf2.42@news.cpqcorp.net>   k In article <fu7na.63959$UR.505049@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:   G :Does anyone have a good/simple (means F$CVUI, F$FAO, ...) DCL solutioniH :for getting Image Identification Information of .EXE files ? On Alpha ? :3L :Do you know of a freeware tool (MACRO, FORTRAN, PASCAL, C, ...) to get suchJ :information (image name, image file identification, ...) in DCL symbols ? :nL :I know there was such a discussion (with examples/solutions) about a decadeL :ago, but it was for VAX. Did anyone update the mentioned tools since then ?    F   Anything you do with this area will have to change for use with I64.F   The OpenVMS I64 image headers are completely different than those of0   OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, in other words.  F   The best approach is not to try this, or to otherwise somehow avoid    having this requirement.  D   The second best approach is to use a stub image, and particularly 0   one that contains the required version checks.  G   Getting at this stuff from DCL is certainly possible, but not without H   risk -- though if the DCL code follows the image activation logic usedG   for finding the data structures that comprise the image header, therexF   is a reasonable likelyhood that the logic will continue to work on a   particular platform.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:47:36 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>m> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?' Message-ID: <3EA49128.5EBAB12E@fsi.net>o   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > m > In article <fu7na.63959$UR.505049@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:i > I > :Does anyone have a good/simple (means F$CVUI, F$FAO, ...) DCL solutionoJ > :for getting Image Identification Information of .EXE files ? On Alpha ? > :lN > :Do you know of a freeware tool (MACRO, FORTRAN, PASCAL, C, ...) to get suchL > :information (image name, image file identification, ...) in DCL symbols ? > : N > :I know there was such a discussion (with examples/solutions) about a decadeN > :ago, but it was for VAX. Did anyone update the mentioned tools since then ? > H >   Anything you do with this area will have to change for use with I64.H >   The OpenVMS I64 image headers are completely different than those of2 >   OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, in other words. > G >   The best approach is not to try this, or to otherwise somehow avoid. >   having this requirement.  C My vote for "best approach" would be some kind of system service orr4 lexical function, since this comes up so often here.  H Meanwhile, I believe VAXman has something that he can maybe port to I64, when that finally appears.   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:55:44 -0700e6 From: "Howard Taylor" <Howard.Taylor@pacificcoast.net>> Subject: Re: [OpenVMS Alpha] How to get image version in DCL ?  Message-ID: <3ea4cdfa$1@nubby2.>  
 How about:  = $ pipe analyze/image 'filename | search sys$input "image filer identification"   
 Howard Taylor   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3EA49128.5EBAB12E@fsi.net...y > Hoff Hoffman wrote:o > >kK > > In article <fu7na.63959$UR.505049@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.ate# (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:n > >tK > > :Does anyone have a good/simple (means F$CVUI, F$FAO, ...) DCL solution L > > :for getting Image Identification Information of .EXE files ? On Alpha ? > > :oK > > :Do you know of a freeware tool (MACRO, FORTRAN, PASCAL, C, ...) to get  suchL > > :information (image name, image file identification, ...) in DCL symbols ?  > > :hI > > :I know there was such a discussion (with examples/solutions) about aw decadeI > > :ago, but it was for VAX. Did anyone update the mentioned tools sinceu then ? > > J > >   Anything you do with this area will have to change for use with I64.J > >   The OpenVMS I64 image headers are completely different than those of4 > >   OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, in other words. > >pI > >   The best approach is not to try this, or to otherwise somehow avoid  > >   having this requirement. > E > My vote for "best approach" would be some kind of system service or 6 > lexical function, since this comes up so often here. >aJ > Meanwhile, I believe VAXman has something that he can maybe port to I64, > when that finally appears. >  > -- > David J. Dachteras > dba DJE Systems1 > http://www.djesys.com/ >2* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.221 ************************ little if anything to do with democracy or freedom of speech.< > > > It has everything to do with discretion and stupidity. > > >iC > > > Ever hear the proverb; "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."?d > >=20* > > It has very much to do with democracy. > >=20> > > If people are not allowed to say what they t""whb}CJcA>
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