1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 23 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 224       Contents:# Re: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095  Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095  Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095  Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095  Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095 # Re: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095  Alpha Hardware Training & CertC Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluste	r B Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into clusterB Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluster! BACKUP qualifiers: bug or feature  Carbonless Printers  Re: Carbonless Printers  RE: Carbonless Printers  Re: Carbonless Printers  RE: Carbonless Printers + Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments  DECdoc an EPS files. Re: DECdoc an EPS files. Re: DECdoc an EPS files.F Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LANF Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LANH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly Re: indexf.sys Re: indexf.sys8 Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!8 Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!% Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada % Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada % Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada % Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada # Re: Netbackup x OpenVMS questions ? # Re: Netbackup x OpenVMS questions ? 9 Re: ODS2: Relation between cluster size and maximum files 9 Re: ODS2: Relation between cluster size and maximum files  OpenVMS and MUMPS  RE: OpenVMS and MUMPS  OpenVMS marketing in Belgium  Re: OpenVMS marketing in Belgium  Re: OpenVMS marketing in Belgium Oracle & OpenVMS Re: Oracle & OpenVMS Oracle and VMS Re: Oracle and VMS3 Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments  PRODUCT "UNREGISTER" Re: PRODUCT "UNREGISTER" UCX PROBLEM * UK "Computing" registration - Mentions VMS. Re: UK "Computing" registration - Mentions VMS Re: VMS721_SYS_DB v1.0?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 07:28:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD10953 Message-ID: <$h+YICO4UFHe@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <vad117rc58tu4c@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com> writes: > In stock -   BI=4   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:15:42 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>( Subject: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095/ Message-ID: <vad10nj9irf245@news.supernews.com>   
 In stock -   Alpha Server DS10L 617Mhz CPU EV67  256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  Dual Serial Port Dual 10/100 Ethernet 1 Open PCI Slot 
 Power Cord 1 Year Island Warranty   Only $1095 while stocks last.   , VMS screams on these pizza box sized systems  E Add a VX1 Oxygen or Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics card for $199 more!        -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:15:04 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>( Subject: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095/ Message-ID: <vad10mrjlcgn44@news.supernews.com>   
 In stock -   Alpha Server DS10L 617Mhz CPU EV67  256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  Dual Serial Port Dual 10/100 Ethernet 1 Open PCI Slot 
 Power Cord 1 Year Island Warranty   Only $1095 while stocks last.   , VMS screams on these pizza box sized systems  E Add a VX1 Oxygen or Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics card for $199 more!        -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:15:46 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>( Subject: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095/ Message-ID: <vad10qi2t0e347@news.supernews.com>   
 In stock -   Alpha Server DS10L 617Mhz CPU EV67  256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  Dual Serial Port Dual 10/100 Ethernet 1 Open PCI Slot 
 Power Cord 1 Year Island Warranty   Only $1095 while stocks last.   , VMS screams on these pizza box sized systems  E Add a VX1 Oxygen or Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics card for $199 more!        -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:15:59 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>( Subject: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095/ Message-ID: <vad117rc58tu4c@news.supernews.com>   
 In stock -   Alpha Server DS10L 617Mhz CPU EV67  256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  Dual Serial Port Dual 10/100 Ethernet 1 Open PCI Slot 
 Power Cord 1 Year Island Warranty   Only $1095 while stocks last.   , VMS screams on these pizza box sized systems  E Add a VX1 Oxygen or Radeon 7500 64MB PCI Graphics card for $199 more!        -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:18:28 -0400 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com>, Subject: Re: Alpha DS10L 617Mhz EV67 USD1095/ Message-ID: <vad4mdc0ncd5b5@news.supernews.com>    Sorry    Our IMAP server went nuts    Bloody Tru64 !   DT   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:11:55 -0500  From: brandon@dalsemi.com ' Subject: Alpha Hardware Training & Cert 1 Message-ID: <03042310115532@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   L I need to know who provides Alpha hardware disagnostics training and at what9 cost.  Specifically for the GS160, ES40, and DS20 series.   I The course would cover how to diagnose and repair all components of these  servers.   Any ideas out there?       John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:25:17 -0400 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> L Subject: Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluste	rK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BF1@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Keith A. Lewis [mailto:lewis@PROBE.mitre.org] ) > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 7:53 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > Subject: Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into 	 > cluster  >  > / > trothf <trothf@boeing.com> writes in article  E > <3EA5BDAA.703AED77@boeing.com> dated Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:09:46 GMT: : > >The original enet port is rj45 also.  Is there an rj45  > terminator, too?   > C > The Alphastation 500s I have seen usually have both RJ45 and coax + > connections on their built-in ethernet.    > @ > It's a loopback connector -- not exactly a terminator, but it  > sometimes gets  @ > things working.  A temporary substitute if you don't have one  > handy would be9 > to plug the old interface into an otherwise empty (but   > powered on) hub. > - > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org @ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >  >      For 10BaseT/100BaseT:    Pin 1 => Pin 3 Pin 2 => Pin 6  ? Use carefully (and only briefly) on live circuits (hubs, e.g.)   as collisions may result.    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 00:11:13 -0700+ From: Kor.Rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens) K Subject: Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluster = Message-ID: <fae8becc.0304222311.7d2f42d6@posting.google.com>    Hi  E Once we had a problem, after putting in a new network card. The alpha D System was not booting in the cluster also. Problem was that the newD network card was not installed proberly, maybe that is also the case in you machine.   E If the card is correct installed and you have network access than you 2 should see a green light on the back off the card.  E If al this is correct try a minimum reboot, so no network is started.  Then tryD a @net$configure advanced to configure the card(s, and reboot again.    F Personally i think that your networkcard is not working correct (maybe+ it is broken), or is not correct installed.    regards Kor Rinkens    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:52:53 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)K Subject: Re: AlphaStation 500 DE500 set to 100mbit not booting into cluster . Message-ID: <b85uql$gup$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  p trothf <trothf@boeing.com> writes in article <3EA5BDAA.703AED77@boeing.com> dated Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:09:46 GMT:I >The original enet port is rj45 also.  Is there an rj45 terminator, too?    A The Alphastation 500s I have seen usually have both RJ45 and coax ) connections on their built-in ethernet.     M It's a loopback connector -- not exactly a terminator, but it sometimes gets  L things working.  A temporary substitute if you don't have one handy would beG to plug the old interface into an otherwise empty (but powered on) hub.   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:42:18 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> * Subject: BACKUP qualifiers: bug or feature; Message-ID: <01KV2U5EUSE0A9SJ2F@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   ( This command looks OK at a quick glance:  /    $  BACKUP BIG_FILE.BCK/SELECT=SMALL_FILE.DAT    but actually it should be   8    $  BACKUP BIG_FILE.BCK/SAVE_SET/SELECT=SMALL_FILE.DAT  ? Of course, /SELECT doesn't make any sense without the /SAVE_SET F qualifier.  The first command doesn't give an error or even a warning,A however.  Rather, the /SELECT is silently ignored and BIG_FILE is  copied.    Bug or feature?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:01:32 -0500 < From: "La Roche, Michael" <mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org> Subject: Carbonless Printers] Message-ID: <F2D18855B95D6942BD315C5A8F141A0E035A6ACC@as-exchange-01.allsaintshealthcare.org>    Hi, L I'm looking for a good laserjet printer that can handle carbonless paper are there any good recommendations?  Thanks,  Mike                             \\\|///                        \\ _ _ //                        ( @ @ ) *  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o- { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 3 { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } 6 { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }: { Racine, WI  53403                                      }; { V:  262-687-7741                                        } ; { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 0 { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         },  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o  - "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."   	-Calvin & Hobbes          @ This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialF information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllE Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately I destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note that L any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this messageC is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, L conclusions or other information contained within this message that does not pertain to official business.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:35:46 -0400 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>   Subject: Re: Carbonless Printers' Message-ID: <3EA6B2D2.94445987@vcu.edu>   C you mean like in those credit card reciepts that make copies as you  write???  E how many sheets, and how flimsy are they?  you'd want a laserjet that G can feed straight thru w/o doing any turns... the old Laserjet 2's were E great in that respect.  a laserjet 6p can do that also if you use the H front feeder and not the paper tray in the bottom, and open the chute inC the back...  you are NOT talking about mass quantities then, tho...    hhmm..   "La Roche, Michael" wrote: >  > Hi, N > I'm looking for a good laserjet printer that can handle carbonless paper are! > there any good recommendations? 	 > Thanks,  > Mike > ! >                         \\\|/// ! >                       \\ _ _ //  >                       ( @ @ ) , >  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o/ > { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 5 > { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } 8 > { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }< > { Racine, WI  53403                                      }= > { V:  262-687-7741                                        } = > { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 2 > { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         }. >  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o > / > "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."  >         -Calvin & Hobbes > B > This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialH > information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllG > Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately K > destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note that N > any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this messageE > is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, N > conclusions or other information contained within this message that does not > pertain to official business.    --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:16:31 -0500 < From: "La Roche, Michael" <mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org>  Subject: RE: Carbonless Printers] Message-ID: <F2D18855B95D6942BD315C5A8F141A0E035A6ACD@as-exchange-01.allsaintshealthcare.org>   L What we are looking at is multipart paper so you only have to line up 3 or 4L copies of the same sheets and have the person sign or handwritten on the topJ and they go through all 3 or 4 sheets, instead of having to handwritten onJ each sheet.  I know the old impact printers have multipart forms but I was  looking for a quieter option.     I They would also be in a somewhat large volume of printing not just 1 or 2 
 occasionally.    Thanks                             \\\|///                        \\ _ _ //                        ( @ @ ) *  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o- { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 3 { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } 6 { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }: { Racine, WI  53403                                      }; { V:  262-687-7741                                        } ; { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 0 { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         },  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o  - "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."   	-Calvin & Hobbes       > -----Original Message-----( > From:	Jim Agnew [SMTP:jpagnew@vcu.edu]* > Sent:	Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:36 AM > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject:	Re: Carbonless Printers > E > you mean like in those credit card reciepts that make copies as you 
 > write??? > G > how many sheets, and how flimsy are they?  you'd want a laserjet that I > can feed straight thru w/o doing any turns... the old Laserjet 2's were G > great in that respect.  a laserjet 6p can do that also if you use the J > front feeder and not the paper tray in the bottom, and open the chute inE > the back...  you are NOT talking about mass quantities then, tho...  >  > hhmm.. >  > "La Roche, Michael" wrote: > >  > > Hi, L > > I'm looking for a good laserjet printer that can handle carbonless paper > are # > > there any good recommendations?  > > Thanks,  > > Mike > > # > >                         \\\|/// # > >                       \\ _ _ // ! > >                       ( @ @ ) . > >  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o1 > > { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 7 > > { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } : > > { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }> > > { Racine, WI  53403                                      }? > > { V:  262-687-7741                                        } ? > > { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 4 > > { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         }0 > >  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o > > 1 > > "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."  > >         -Calvin & Hobbes > > D > > This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialJ > > information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllI > > Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately H > > destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note > thatH > > any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this	 > message G > > is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, L > > conclusions or other information contained within this message that does > not ! > > pertain to official business.  >  > --  H > "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship > of the Ring" >  > @ This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialF information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllE Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately I destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note that L any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this messageC is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, L conclusions or other information contained within this message that does not pertain to official business.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 11:24:26 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: Re: Carbonless Printers3 Message-ID: <5kVj5L5fVzNp@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <F2D18855B95D6942BD315C5A8F141A0E035A6ACC@as-exchange-01.allsaintshealthcare.org>, "La Roche, Michael" <mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org> writes:N > I'm looking for a good laserjet printer that can handle carbonless paper are! > there any good recommendations?   M Are you talking about a laser printer or an ink jet printer or an HP printer?    laserjet is a trademark    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:01:31 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com  Subject: RE: Carbonless Printers? Message-ID: <OFB97C6305.F260D9E5-ON85256D11.005D386C@metso.com>   C Are you expecting to feed multipart forms that create images on the  undersheets I by impact on the oversheets and us a laser printer which is by definition  non-impact?   I ISTM that if you want to print on anything but the top page, a laser will  not do it, unless I you plan to print each page separately on carbonless paper, then assemble  the  sets for later carbonless use.    K From:  "La Roche, Michael" <mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org> on 04/23/2003         12:16 PM   H Please respond to "La Roche, Michael" <mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   # Subject:    RE: Carbonless Printers     J What we are looking at is multipart paper so you only have to line up 3 or 4 H copies of the same sheets and have the person sign or handwritten on the top J and they go through all 3 or 4 sheets, instead of having to handwritten onJ each sheet.  I know the old impact printers have multipart forms but I was looking for a quieter option.   I They would also be in a somewhat large volume of printing not just 1 or 2 
 occasionally.    Thanks                             \\\|///                        \\ _ _ //                        ( @ @ ) *  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o- { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 3 { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } 6 { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }: { Racine, WI  53403                                      }; { V:  262-687-7741                                        } ; { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 0 { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         },  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o  - "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."               -Calvin & Hobbes        > -----Original Message-----3 > From:            Jim Agnew [SMTP:jpagnew@vcu.edu] 5 > Sent:            Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:36 AM " > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > Subject:         Re: Carbonless Printers > E > you mean like in those credit card reciepts that make copies as you 
 > write??? > G > how many sheets, and how flimsy are they?  you'd want a laserjet that I > can feed straight thru w/o doing any turns... the old Laserjet 2's were G > great in that respect.  a laserjet 6p can do that also if you use the J > front feeder and not the paper tray in the bottom, and open the chute inE > the back...  you are NOT talking about mass quantities then, tho...  >  > hhmm.. >  > "La Roche, Michael" wrote: > >  > > Hi, F > > I'm looking for a good laserjet printer that can handle carbonless paper  > are # > > there any good recommendations?  > > Thanks,  > > Mike > > # > >                         \\\|/// # > >                       \\ _ _ // ! > >                       ( @ @ ) . > >  o--------------oOOo-( )-oOOo------------o1 > > { Michael J. La Roche - Sr. Systems Analyst } 7 > > { All Saints Healthcare System, Inc.              } : > > { 1320 Wisconsin Avenue                              }> > > { Racine, WI  53403                                      }? > > { V:  262-687-7741                                        } ? > > { F:  262-687-5595                                        } 4 > > { E:  mlaroche@allsaintshealthcare.org         }0 > >  o----------------oooO--Oooo---------------o > > 1 > > "Careful-- we don't want to learn from this."  > >         -Calvin & Hobbes > > D > > This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialJ > > information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllI > > Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately H > > destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note > thatH > > any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this	 > message G > > is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, G > > conclusions or other information contained within this message that  does > not ! > > pertain to official business.  >  > --H > "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship > of the Ring" >  > @ This message, and any attachment, is privileged and confidentialF information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee and AllE Saints Healthcare. If you are not the intended recipient, immediately I destroy this message and notify the sender of the error. Please note that D any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message C is prohibited. All Saints Healthcare does not endorse any opinions, H conclusions or other information contained within this message that does not  pertain to official business.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:32:44 +0100 3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> 4 Subject: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments* Message-ID: <b86423$udk$1@kermit.esat.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:VHCdnTixGsrzDj2jXTWcow@metrocast.net... > I > Kind of difficult to see how DARPA's cutting back on efforts to improve 3 >OS security would be positive for VMS, I'm afraid.   K Depends on the spin.  How about "DARPA finally pulled the plug on a project L that has consumed $ 2.3 million since 2001 in an effort to make OpenBSD Unix	 secure" ?   3 VAXMan is right.  What a waste of taxpayers' money.   D --------------------------------------------------------------------< Tom Wade             | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie? EuroKom              | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom; / Unit A2              |        a=eirmail400;c=ie / Nutgrove Office Park | Tel:   +353 (1) 296-9696 / Rathfarnham          | Fax:   +353 (1) 296-9697 < Dublin 14            | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimerC Ireland              | Tip:   "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:08:16 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: DECdoc an EPS files. ' Message-ID: <3EA6BA70.E9462E9B@aaa.com>    Hi. 2 Does anyone have a pointer to some tool to convert6 "normal" PC graphic files (JPG, GIF, BMP, whatever) to2 the EPS format that DECdoc needs ? I'd prefer a PC tool...    Jan-Erik Sderhohlm.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 11:41:45 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: DECdoc an EPS files. 3 Message-ID: <uMqdgpm$VEuZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3EA6BA70.E9462E9B@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > Hi. 4 > Does anyone have a pointer to some tool to convert8 > "normal" PC graphic files (JPG, GIF, BMP, whatever) to4 > the EPS format that DECdoc needs ? I'd prefer a PC	 > tool...   C If you have an X-windows client* for your PC system (I have one for @ Macintosh, so I presume they exist for Microsoft), you might tryC a screen capture using the DEC Document graphics editor on VMS V7.2  or earlier.    =============== D * In X-windows terminology, the end that displays the picture is the/ "server".  The client is the one with the data.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:18:59 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ! Subject: Re: DECdoc an EPS files. I Message-ID: <7Wzpa.144927$Vzu.39696@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3EA6BA70.E9462E9B@aaa.com...  > Hi. 4 > Does anyone have a pointer to some tool to convert8 > "normal" PC graphic files (JPG, GIF, BMP, whatever) to4 > the EPS format that DECdoc needs ? I'd prefer a PC	 > tool...     A I recollect that if you 'install' a Postcript printer driver (say @ Apple Laserwriter), then it will be presented as a valid printerA choice. Open your .jpg image in your image editor and then select @ File->Print.  Choose the Laserwriter printer. Within the printer> options dialog there is an option to output to an EPS file youC specify. I used to do this a long time ago with a TI printer with a   Postscript card installed in it.  @ Unfortunately I don't have a Postscript printer installed at the7 present time so I can't verify all the details for you.     7 Another option is a PC software package called 'Hijaak' D http://www.hijaak.com/   I used to used this for format conversions.( It supports EPS as an output-only format   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:34:48 -0400 % From: VMSnewbie <The7car@comcast.net> O Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN 8 Message-ID: <e39cav82miab4m6v4nj3k992ib4bmjrb35@4ax.com>   Jerry,  C Thanks for responding.  I downloaded Mocha W32 LPD and set it up on B the Windows 98 PC.  However, I'm not a VMS system administrator (IA only inherited this VLC when the company I was working for closed C down), so I need to know what I have to do in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and F elsewhere in order to print.  Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated!  Thanks again.   
 -- Tony --   > D > Look for a LPD package for the Windows system. This is the one I'm > using: > G >    http://www.totalshareware.com/asp/detail_view.asp?application=9436 ? >    Mocha W32 LPD - Download - TotalShareware Software Archive  >   >    $ show queue/full sys$print > D >    Server queue SYS$PRINT, idle, on JRLVAX::, mounted form DEFAULTI >      /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FLAG,FORM=DEFAULT) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] I >      /PROCESSOR=UCX$LPD_SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR  >  > 4 > --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    >>J >>  I have a VAXstation 4000 VLC (VMS 7.2, Digital TCP/IP V5.0) and I wantJ >>  print jobs to go to a Windows PC printer on the LAN (I can't connect aH >>  printer to the VLC's only port because it's being used for somethingF >>  else, and there are no other VMS systems on the network).  I don'tH >>  have any experience in setting up something like this, so if someoneF >>  with some patience wants to help me out, I'd really appreciate it. >>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 08:53:27 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) O Subject: Re: HELP NEEDED - printing from a VAX to a Windows PC printer on a LAN 5 Message-ID: <bwspa.54$DX.50150@twister.austin.rr.com>   & VMSnewbie (The7car@comcast.net) wrote: : Jerry, : E : Thanks for responding.  I downloaded Mocha W32 LPD and set it up on D : the Windows 98 PC.  However, I'm not a VMS system administrator (IC : only inherited this VLC when the company I was working for closed E : down), so I need to know what I have to do in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and H : elsewhere in order to print.  Any help you can provide will be greatly : appreciated!  Thanks again.  :  : -- Tony -- :  You're welcome.   G The only thing required in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM is the startup of Digital   TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS.  > This is my DCL script to define the printer, which can be done* interactively; the blank lines are needed:  $    $ run sys$system:ucx$lprsetup.exe    add    SYS$PRINT	    remote                    d700     text          q    y    y    HP 960cse Printer         y    y     And what the queue looks like:  $    $ run sys$system:ucx$lprsetup.exe      UCX Printer Setup Program  /    Command  < add delete view help exit >: view     #    # LOCAL PRINTERS     #    UCX$LPD_QUEUE:\            :lp=UCX$LPD_QUEUE:\            :sd=UCX$LPD_SPOOL:     #    # HP 960cse Printer    SYS$PRINT|sys$print:\4            :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/SYS$PRINT.LOG:\            :lp=SYS$PRINT:\            :rm=d700:\             :rp=text:\ /            :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/SYS$PRINT:     #  /    Command  < add delete view help exit >: exit       $  B d700 is the node name of the Windows 98SE PC that has the printer.  : I need to upgrade my Digital TCP/IP Services to 5.x, where/ the lprsetup program name is tcpip$lprsetup.exe     2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 03 08:43:21 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>   + In article <b84h41$8g9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, /    david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: F >In article <b83obt$fmn$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:- >>In article <b83f9h$54a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, 1 >>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: 1 <snip...how about changing your RM to 65 please?>   J >>>Nowadays I would hope that a report of a security vulnerability from a  >>hobbyist WK >>>would be treated just as seriously by HP as a report of a vulnerability M >>from* >>>a customer with a maintenance contract. >>A >>Dreeammmm, dream, dream, dream, dream.  You gotta get the info h# >>into the ear of the right person.h >> > L >Nowadays if the vendor doesn't provide a reporting mechanism for those not  onB >support contract then the bug gets published to Bugtraq, Cert etcF >If its published to one of the more reputable lists they contact the  vendor.iD >If not then the vendor finds out about it along with everyone else.  > And we considered that as a security risk.  We did NOT publish: security hole reports.  Like I said, you really do need to= find out how DEC used to do it.  I don't think that mechanisme? exists anymore since Compaq, but our methods had reasons behind > them.  DEC used to be in the business to make money by selling= hardware.  To ensure further sales, we supplied software that ? could be run on a general system.  For the customers who neededo> special code, either they could hire one of our special groups= or do the code themselves.  Since we also shipped the sourcest@ for that general software, these customers had most of the tools= to do their own changes.  If they needed a special tool, theyr$ had the tools to make those tools.    ? Now, in the process of all of that work (think about a thousand > sites with enthusiastic kiddies and/or scientists), bugs could= be uncovered.  It was in our best intersest to have a processc= so that news of those bugs would reach the developers' and/or : maintainers' desks in a minimal amount of time.  It was inC our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed,s= and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM.e  > Now, think about that.  How do you tell your customers about aA security risk so they can get the patch installed without tellingB. the whole world which, by definition, is them.  = AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with s high security problems.l   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.i   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 06:15:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)dQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:   ? > AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with   > high security problems.n  B That is not my impression.  Security bulletins still come from theA same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to berB sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers.  I thinkB most people here in comp.os.vms would tend to send their report toB someone from VMS Development, and I have never heard any complaint about that practice.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 03 09:46:48 GMT- From: jmfbahciv@aol.com-Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyl+ Message-ID: <b85u38$2fu$2@bob.news.rcn.net>R  3 In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>,O1    Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:1F >In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >e@ >> AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with  >> high security problems. >0C >That is not my impression.  Security bulletins still come from theLB >same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to beC >sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers.  I thinkyC >most people here in comp.os.vms would tend to send their report topC >someone from VMS Development, and I have never heard any complaints >about that practice.e  ? You will when the people who do the contact function goes away.7? When an OS is getting wound down, when the person goes, so doesn< the function that person performed to make the business run 	 smoothly.n  B However, I didn't write clearly enough.  My shambles comment was a< comment about the user world in general, and not meant to be? an attack on a specific company of a specific software product.r  B This [alerting sites to security breakage possibilities] has been 9 something I've been thinking about for eight years or so. B If you don't know who your customers are, you certainly don't have< that all-important single-point contact with each customer. ; You certainly don't want to tell each and every user how too- circumvent the rest of the world's computers.z   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:15:08 +0100sD From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 2 Message-ID: <1051100108.448572@saucer.planet.gong>  J <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:b85u38$2fu$2@bob.news.rcn.net...5 > In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e   [SNIP]  C > This [alerting sites to security breakage possibilities] has been5; > something I've been thinking about for eight years or so./D > If you don't know who your customers are, you certainly don't have= > that all-important single-point contact with each customer.x= > You certainly don't want to tell each and every user how toh/ > circumvent the rest of the world's computers.r  4 Well, to give a little hint here. What often happens5 when a vulnerability is discovered is that a bunch of93 crackers find it first, use it on a few systems andn4 probably share it with the rest of the crackers they2 know. A customer will discover this from analysing1 attacks or may even discover it themselves in the7 first place.  4 The tricky bit : The customer then tells the vendor,1 his systems are going up and down like a frigginge4 yo-yo and the vendor will give some really practical3 tips like : "Pay us to report the fault", or "We'llI1 get back to you in x hours/days/months/years", or 2 perhaps even "Yeah, we're getting a lot of reports0 like that come in." Sometimes it will be a basic2 "I don't believe you" or even worse "It's not that important".o  7 This was happening a lot, I would guess because vendors 6 didn't think the cost/benefit analysis favoured fixing3 the fault... Or by acknowledging the fault in their-6 product they may open themselves up to legal action or- (even worse!) their image might be tarnished.c  1 People quickly realised that they needed to applyv4 pressure to vendors and share fixes with each other,1 so they created their own points of contact which-1 fully exposed the flaws in products. The pressure32 created by this actually *forced* vendors to clean their acts up.  5 Microsoft is an easy target to pick on here because Id3 have personally seen it pull all of those tricks tod0 avoid acknowledgement of flaws in it's products.  4 Ultimately vendors have to accept responsibility for2 the flaws in their products. They just ain't gonna/ do that though, so you need something to *make*r them do it.n   Cheers,M Rupert   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:15:31 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)-Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b86053$dls$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>1  E In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:8, >In article <b84h41$8g9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,0 >   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:G >>In article <b83obt$fmn$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: . >>>In article <b83f9h$54a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,2 >>>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: >>M >>Nowadays if the vendor doesn't provide a reporting mechanism for those not . >onDC >>support contract then the bug gets published to Bugtraq, Cert etc G >>If its published to one of the more reputable lists they contact the h >vendor.E >>If not then the vendor finds out about it along with everyone else.n >e? >And we considered that as a security risk.  We did NOT publishe; >security hole reports.  Like I said, you really do need tor> >find out how DEC used to do it.  I don't think that mechanism@ >exists anymore since Compaq, but our methods had reasons behind >them.  I Precisely. Which is why the vendor NEEDS TO PROVIDE A REPORTING MECHANISM ? for those who discover bugs but aren't on support contracts !!!   N If the vendor doesn't provide such a mechanism or doesn't provide a fix withinG a reasonable time then the fault will be published through other means.   N Providing a means for reporting security problems allows the vendor to controlI the process. They can produce a fix. They can publicise it (to both their.O support customers , on their website and to reputable groups such as CERT) and -N they can decide on the level of detail to include so as to warn users but not H to describe the problem in such detail that people can attack unpatched  systems.    : >  DEC used to be in the business to make money by selling> >hardware.  To ensure further sales, we supplied software that@ >could be run on a general system.  For the customers who needed? >special code, either they could hire one of our special groupsm> >or do the code themselves.  Since we also shipped the sourcesA >for that general software, these customers had most of the toolsa> >to do their own changes.  If they needed a special tool, they% >had the tools to make those tools.  s >t@ >Now, in the process of all of that work (think about a thousand? >sites with enthusiastic kiddies and/or scientists), bugs couldi> >be uncovered.  It was in our best intersest to have a process> >so that news of those bugs would reach the developers' and/or; >maintainers' desks in a minimal amount of time.  It was ineD >our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed,> >and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM. >u? >Now, think about that.  How do you tell your customers about aaB >security risk so they can get the patch installed without telling/ >the whole world which, by definition, is them.  >r  J You tell them that there is a serious problem with xxxx and that they mustM apply this fix but you do NOT go into the exact details of the problem and inbF particular you DO NOT (as many of the security lists unfortunately do) publicise an example exploit.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      > >AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with  >high security problems. >  >/BAHa >o( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:20:17 +0000 (UTC)M+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)uQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly5+ Message-ID: <b860e1$dls$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>h  c In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:lF >In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >T@ >> AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with  >> high security problems. >nC >That is not my impression.  Security bulletins still come from theLB >same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to be< >sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers.    H In these days of hobbyist systems that needs to be publicised more fully% ie Exact contact details rather than g  F "the same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to be9 sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers"n  O I still think a simple email address such as security@hp.com to report security " problems would be the best option.     >I thinkC >most people here in comp.os.vms would tend to send their report to-C >someone from VMS Development, and I have never heard any complaintm >about that practice.n  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 03 10:57:23 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8627i$d4r$1@bob.news.rcn.net>c  2 In article <1051100108.448572@saucer.planet.gong>,H    "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:K ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:b85u38$2fu$2@bob.news.rcn.net...i6 >> In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, >o >[SNIP]  >tD >> This [alerting sites to security breakage possibilities] has been< >> something I've been thinking about for eight years or so.E >> If you don't know who your customers are, you certainly don't havet> >> that all-important single-point contact with each customer.> >> You certainly don't want to tell each and every user how to0 >> circumvent the rest of the world's computers. > 5 >Well, to give a little hint here. What often happens-6 >when a vulnerability is discovered is that a bunch of4 >crackers find it first, use it on a few systems and5 >probably share it with the rest of the crackers theyu3 >know. A customer will discover this from analysing 2 >attacks or may even discover it themselves in the
 >first place.s >r5 >The tricky bit : The customer then tells the vendor, 2 >his systems are going up and down like a frigging5 >yo-yo and the vendor will give some really practicall4 >tips like : "Pay us to report the fault", or "We'll2 >get back to you in x hours/days/months/years", or3 >perhaps even "Yeah, we're getting a lot of reports.1 >like that come in." Sometimes it will be a basici3 >"I don't believe you" or even worse "It's not thatn >important". >s8 >This was happening a lot, I would guess because vendors7 >didn't think the cost/benefit analysis favoured fixing 4 >the fault... Or by acknowledging the fault in their7 >product they may open themselves up to legal action or . >(even worse!) their image might be tarnished. >l2 >People quickly realised that they needed to apply5 >pressure to vendors and share fixes with each other, 2 >so they created their own points of contact which2 >fully exposed the flaws in products. The pressure3 >created by this actually *forced* vendors to clean  >their acts up.  > 6 >Microsoft is an easy target to pick on here because I4 >have personally seen it pull all of those tricks to1 >avoid acknowledgement of flaws in it's products.  > 5 >Ultimately vendors have to accept responsibility fort3 >the flaws in their products. They just ain't gonnao0 >do that though, so you need something to *make* >them do it.  > In the bad old days of Cold War and pride in one's work, there< wasn't any wait if we could 1. reproduce it and 2. patch it.9 If it wasn't patchable, we figured out some workaround.  o  F I can't recall, but weren't security holes also contractual violations= of some sort or other?  We sure didn't install holey softwarei@ on the government sites.   Getting on the government's shit list used to be loss of business.   /BAH  a  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.n   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:11:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolys3 Message-ID: <jLKH9blNIshA@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  Y In article <b860e1$dls$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:ue > In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:tG >>In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:e >>A >>> AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with b >>> high security problems.e >>D >>That is not my impression.  Security bulletins still come from theC >>same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to be = >>sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers.    > J > In these days of hobbyist systems that needs to be publicised more fully' > ie Exact contact details rather than a > H > "the same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to be; > sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers"   B In these days of spam, I think it unwise to post the email address* of an individual without their permission.  ? But if you would trust my word for the email address, you could @ always email me when you found a problem and I would provide theC address.  (If you emailed me now, I would have to find the address,O5 which would waste my time if you had no problem now.)c  B Trusting me, however, might not be a good idea, so you could emailD one of the various folk from VMS Development who post here from time+ to time (again, when you have the problem).a   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 23 Apr 03 11:04:01 GMTu From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b862k1$d4r$2@bob.news.rcn.net>l  + In article <b86053$dls$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,p/    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: F >In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:- >>In article <b84h41$8g9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, 1 >>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:rH >>>In article <b83obt$fmn$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:/ >>>>In article <b83f9h$54a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, 3 >>>>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:  >>>_J >>>Nowadays if the vendor doesn't provide a reporting mechanism for those  not  >>onD >>>support contract then the bug gets published to Bugtraq, Cert etcH >>>If its published to one of the more reputable lists they contact the 	 >>vendor. F >>>If not then the vendor finds out about it along with everyone else. >>@ >>And we considered that as a security risk.  We did NOT publish< >>security hole reports.  Like I said, you really do need to? >>find out how DEC used to do it.  I don't think that mechanism A >>exists anymore since Compaq, but our methods had reasons behind- >>them.  >tJ >Precisely. Which is why the vendor NEEDS TO PROVIDE A REPORTING MECHANISM@ >for those who discover bugs but aren't on support contracts !!! >,I >If the vendor doesn't provide such a mechanism or doesn't provide a fix t withinH >a reasonable time then the fault will be published through other means. >aH >Providing a means for reporting security problems allows the vendor to  control,J >the process. They can produce a fix. They can publicise it (to both theirL >support customers , on their website and to reputable groups such as CERT)  and K >they can decide on the level of detail to include so as to warn users but c not I >to describe the problem in such detail that people can attack unpatched v	 >systems.l >h > ; >>  DEC used to be in the business to make money by sellingp? >>hardware.  To ensure further sales, we supplied software that A >>could be run on a general system.  For the customers who needed @ >>special code, either they could hire one of our special groups? >>or do the code themselves.  Since we also shipped the sourcesoB >>for that general software, these customers had most of the tools? >>to do their own changes.  If they needed a special tool, theyc& >>had the tools to make those tools.   >>A >>Now, in the process of all of that work (think about a thousand-@ >>sites with enthusiastic kiddies and/or scientists), bugs could? >>be uncovered.  It was in our best intersest to have a processe? >>so that news of those bugs would reach the developers' and/or<< >>maintainers' desks in a minimal amount of time.  It was inE >>our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed,r? >>and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM.n >>@ >>Now, think about that.  How do you tell your customers about aC >>security risk so they can get the patch installed without tellingr0 >>the whole world which, by definition, is them. >> >-K >You tell them that there is a serious problem with xxxx and that they mustrL >apply this fix but you do NOT go into the exact details of the problem and  inG >particular you DO NOT (as many of the security lists unfortunately do)  >publicise an example exploit.    = No, sir.  If I tell you to do something because I said it wasw< good for you and you do it, then you're a fool....especially; if it has to do with software.  The guys I worked with werei; bit gods; one of the reasons they were bit gods was becausee; they didn't trust what they did without testing.  They also.< knew that a patch that works in the first 10 systems may not< work with the 11th.  The code at addr+FORVAL(T2) is not the - same physical memory location on all systems..  C Our customers knew better than to just blindly patch an executable.s   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Apr 2003 13:23:39 GMT( From: Geoff Lane <zzassgl@zoe.mcc.ac.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye- Message-ID: <b8644r$11p8$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>r  2 In alt.folklore.computers jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > It was in E > our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed, ? > and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM.   L How could anybody confirm that the fix worked? It's all very well testing onK in-house systems, but out in the wild all kinds of crazy configurations may  exist that break the fix.y   -- nN /\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\  ( Scotty, I've fallen and I can't beam up!   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:56:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly-3 Message-ID: <8EgmOsY0QJOC@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  X In article <b8644r$11p8$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>, Geoff Lane <zzassgl@zoe.mcc.ac.uk> writes:4 > In alt.folklore.computers jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> It was inF >> our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed,@ >> and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM. > N > How could anybody confirm that the fix worked? It's all very well testing onM > in-house systems, but out in the wild all kinds of crazy configurations mays > exist that break the fix.r  @ Since you posted to comp.os.vms, I presume you are talking about< inadequate quality assurance by VMS Development.  While that: does happen from time to time, my impression is that it is& much better than the industry average.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:21:14 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)rQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolys+ Message-ID: <b86b1a$eob$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   E In article <b8627i$d4r$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: 3 >In article <1051100108.448572@saucer.planet.gong>,)I >   "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote: L >><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:b85u38$2fu$2@bob.news.rcn.net...7 >>> In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>,0 >> >>[SNIP] >>E >>> This [alerting sites to security breakage possibilities] has been = >>> something I've been thinking about for eight years or so. F >>> If you don't know who your customers are, you certainly don't have? >>> that all-important single-point contact with each customer.r? >>> You certainly don't want to tell each and every user how to 1 >>> circumvent the rest of the world's computers.  >>6 >>Well, to give a little hint here. What often happens7 >>when a vulnerability is discovered is that a bunch ofs5 >>crackers find it first, use it on a few systems ande6 >>probably share it with the rest of the crackers they4 >>know. A customer will discover this from analysing3 >>attacks or may even discover it themselves in thes >>first place. >>6 >>The tricky bit : The customer then tells the vendor,3 >>his systems are going up and down like a frigginga6 >>yo-yo and the vendor will give some really practical5 >>tips like : "Pay us to report the fault", or "We'llI3 >>get back to you in x hours/days/months/years", or 4 >>perhaps even "Yeah, we're getting a lot of reports2 >>like that come in." Sometimes it will be a basic4 >>"I don't believe you" or even worse "It's not that
 >>important".c >>9 >>This was happening a lot, I would guess because vendorso8 >>didn't think the cost/benefit analysis favoured fixing5 >>the fault... Or by acknowledging the fault in theire8 >>product they may open themselves up to legal action or/ >>(even worse!) their image might be tarnished.o >>3 >>People quickly realised that they needed to applya6 >>pressure to vendors and share fixes with each other,3 >>so they created their own points of contact which33 >>fully exposed the flaws in products. The pressurem4 >>created by this actually *forced* vendors to clean >>their acts up. >>7 >>Microsoft is an easy target to pick on here because Il5 >>have personally seen it pull all of those tricks tor2 >>avoid acknowledgement of flaws in it's products. >>6 >>Ultimately vendors have to accept responsibility for4 >>the flaws in their products. They just ain't gonna1 >>do that though, so you need something to *make*e
 >>them do it.  >j? >In the bad old days of Cold War and pride in one's work, therem= >wasn't any wait if we could 1. reproduce it and 2. patch it.o: >If it wasn't patchable, we figured out some workaround.   >-  O Unfortunately reputable software companies who take pride in their work seem to / have been a dying breed for quite sometime now.e  G >I can't recall, but weren't security holes also contractual violationsu> >of some sort or other?  We sure didn't install holey softwareA >on the government sites.   Getting on the government's shit list: >used to be loss of business.l >   O Ah a mythical golden age when software was treated like any other commodity and- had to be "fit for purpose".O Nowadays the US Navy don't even make a noise when one of their ships is brought $ to a halt by a divide by zero error.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >/BAHe >  >o( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:18:54 +0000 (UTC).+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)-Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr+ Message-ID: <b86ede$f3q$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>l  E In article <b862k1$d4r$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:<, >In article <b86053$dls$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,0 >   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:G >>In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:p. >>>In article <b84h41$8g9$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,2 >>>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:I >>>>In article <b83obt$fmn$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: 0 >>>>>In article <b83f9h$54a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,4 >>>>>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: >>>>K >>>>Nowadays if the vendor doesn't provide a reporting mechanism for those t >not o >>>on E >>>>support contract then the bug gets published to Bugtraq, Cert etcwI >>>>If its published to one of the more reputable lists they contact the 1
 >>>vendor.G >>>>If not then the vendor finds out about it along with everyone else.  >>>sA >>>And we considered that as a security risk.  We did NOT publishm= >>>security hole reports.  Like I said, you really do need tos@ >>>find out how DEC used to do it.  I don't think that mechanismB >>>exists anymore since Compaq, but our methods had reasons behind >>>them. >>K >>Precisely. Which is why the vendor NEEDS TO PROVIDE A REPORTING MECHANISMeA >>for those who discover bugs but aren't on support contracts !!!l >>J >>If the vendor doesn't provide such a mechanism or doesn't provide a fix  >withineI >>a reasonable time then the fault will be published through other means.r >>I >>Providing a means for reporting security problems allows the vendor to   >controlK >>the process. They can produce a fix. They can publicise it (to both theirtM >>support customers , on their website and to reputable groups such as CERT)   >and eL >>they can decide on the level of detail to include so as to warn users but  >not nJ >>to describe the problem in such detail that people can attack unpatched 
 >>systems. >> >>< >>>  DEC used to be in the business to make money by selling@ >>>hardware.  To ensure further sales, we supplied software thatB >>>could be run on a general system.  For the customers who neededA >>>special code, either they could hire one of our special groupsg@ >>>or do the code themselves.  Since we also shipped the sourcesC >>>for that general software, these customers had most of the toolsh@ >>>to do their own changes.  If they needed a special tool, they' >>>had the tools to make those tools.  I >>>wB >>>Now, in the process of all of that work (think about a thousandA >>>sites with enthusiastic kiddies and/or scientists), bugs couldn@ >>>be uncovered.  It was in our best intersest to have a process@ >>>so that news of those bugs would reach the developers' and/or= >>>maintainers' desks in a minimal amount of time.  It was inaF >>>our best interests to get the high security bugs identified, fixed,@ >>>and distributed WITHOUT TELLING ANYBODY HOW TO EXERCISE THEM. >>> A >>>Now, think about that.  How do you tell your customers about aUD >>>security risk so they can get the patch installed without telling1 >>>the whole world which, by definition, is them.= >>>O >>L >>You tell them that there is a serious problem with xxxx and that they mustM >>apply this fix but you do NOT go into the exact details of the problem and   >ineH >>particular you DO NOT (as many of the security lists unfortunately do)  >>publicise an example exploit.  >o> >No, sir.  If I tell you to do something because I said it was= >good for you and you do it, then you're a fool....especially < >if it has to do with software.  The guys I worked with were< >bit gods; one of the reasons they were bit gods was because< >they didn't trust what they did without testing.  They also= >knew that a patch that works in the first 10 systems may notp= >work with the 11th.  The code at addr+FORVAL(T2) is not the e. >same physical memory location on all systems. >tD >Our customers knew better than to just blindly patch an executable. >aP But thats exactly what DEC and Compaq have been telling support customers to do # for ages. The patch descriptions on2  % ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/P  B don't provide enough of a description to know whether it affects   addr+FORVAL(T2)c  M And yes a prudent system's manager will apply a patch on a test system first. K However if that suceeds he has pretty much no choice but to apply it on thei production systems.   N The days when bit gods examined the code of every patch and checked it againstL the code it was patching in the OS are long gone. Most VMS system manager's - don't have access to the VMS source listings.n    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   >/BAH  >$( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:40:38 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyX+ Message-ID: <b86fm6$f9j$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  c In article <jLKH9blNIshA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:LZ >In article <b860e1$dls$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes:f >> In article <IOeaQf5StnCw@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:H >>>In article <b85qca$l34$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>>TB >>>> AFAICT, the current reporting mechanisms are a shambles with  >>>> high security problems. >>>nE >>>That is not my impression.  Security bulletins still come from theID >>>same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to be> >>>sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers.   >>  K >> In these days of hobbyist systems that needs to be publicised more fully-( >> ie Exact contact details rather than  >> rI >> "the same fellow in Colorado who has been designated in the past to bes< >> sent incoming problem reports from non-support customers" >sC >In these days of spam, I think it unwise to post the email address0+ >of an individual without their permission.r >l@ >But if you would trust my word for the email address, you couldA >always email me when you found a problem and I would provide the.D >address.  (If you emailed me now, I would have to find the address,6 >which would waste my time if you had no problem now.) >uC >Trusting me, however, might not be a good idea, so you could email E >one of the various folk from VMS Development who post here from time , >to time (again, when you have the problem).  K I don't personally have any problem to raise (and since my machines are on iG support contract I'd use the official channels). Others without support = contracts do need a simple method of reporting such problems.tJ JF Mezei wrote that he had such a problem with XDM (no auditing of invalid) attempts, no breakin detection/evasion).    K Although the informal approach of posting to VMS development folks who postiO here is a reasonable solution for veterans of this newsgroup. Newcomers will beI, left trying to work out who to send mail to.J It would be much better to have a formal reporting email address (or otherL method) not associated with any particular person but open to anyone with or without a support contract.a    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:30:14 -0400t! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>r Subject: Re: indexf.syss' Message-ID: <3EA69566.97DB70A5@vcu.edu>t  E I recencly had a disk whine b/c there was a parity error in the index  file bitmap...D I wound up doing an image backup, and restoreing it to another disk,@ running ana/dis/media to mark the bad spot.. (didn't find one..)  F it works fine (i shudder to reuse it...)  but i did reach for a couple
 tapes....    jim    Gib Copeland wrote:s >  > Chuck Aaron wrote:
 > > Group, > > 3 > > Is there a way to create a new indexf.sys file?' > >s > > Thanks, 	 > > Chucki > >I > " > Are you sure you need a new one? > G > I recently saw a volume that failed to rebuild because INDEXF.SYS wasDF > missing.  Other than that, the file system seemed to have no problem
 > with it. > K > Turned out the index file (FID (1,1,0)) for the volume still existed, buthK > had somehow been renamed to [000000]INDEXG.SYS.  Probably a Windows-levelhI > administrator (i.e., help desk) screwing around somehow, but I have yeta > to imagine the scenario. > F > You might try repairing the disk, then searching for the index file: > 5 >     $ set default disk$[your volume label]:[000000]I" >     $ ana /disk /repair sys$diskF >     $ pipe dir/fi/nohead/wid=file=64 [...] | sea sys$input "(1,1,0)" > . > If you find it, rename it [000000]INDEXF.SYS >  > Gibm   -- @F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:37:57 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: indexf.sysa3 Message-ID: <HQ4XMSIR7+3X@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  q In article <OeKu+n7VE31L@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:oV > In article <tvQplY2yTKuF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >>  8 >> 	$ BACKUP /PHYSICAL mydisk: mytape:physical.bck /SAVE >>   > E >    I highly recommend /image instead of /physical.  It's faster and-6 >    it will be required later if the intialize works.  C I was working from the assumption that we're trying to recover fromsB a trashed volume.  In that environment, /image won't even work and& /physical is the only rational choice.  H Yes, it would be pointless to initialize a new volume prior to restoring% a /PHYSICAL backup on top of it.  :-)y   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 05:47:58 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!u< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0304230447.9b0951a@posting.google.com>  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<qfKdnY1XBu2TZDijXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messaged9 > news:d7791aa1.0304221556.1f92e6b5@posting.google.com...o4 > > check out Madisons encryption specs ... awesome! > > : > > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2133625,00.html > > > Yup, they're very good - almost as good as the new Opteron's > N > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_8800~6 > 9673,00.html ).i >  > - bill  @ who cares about opteron ... itanium runs OpenVMS, not oopsteron,< and the alpha team influences have not even hit yet ... when5 they get done, oopsteron will be left in the dust ...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:43:46 -0400m$ From: "rob kas" <rob@netcarrier.net>A Subject: Re: Itanium Madison blasts Sun, IBM in encryption specs!m/ Message-ID: <vad6oqpf3ju5a0@corp.supernews.com>o   who cares about opteron ..               You Should  & . itanium runs OpenVMS, not oopsteron,> > and the alpha team influences have not even hit yet ... when7 > they get done, oopsteron will be left in the dust ...o    L              If Intel sees AMD Start making money with Opteron , You can bet< Yamill will Appear and  VMS may end up on Orphan chip again.  5                                                   Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:23:52 -0400]< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada5 Message-ID: <b867mg$62j8g$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>s   John Smith wrote:i7 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote inc messager+ > news:3EA5D389.DF4580AA@vl.videotron.ca...w >> John Smith wrote: >...; >>> As far as I know of the 5 banks whose executive officesa are in: >>> Toronto, only one was using Alphaservers in the past 5	 years fore= >>> anything significant - an Oracle data warehouse on Tru64.  >>> >> Canada Trust ran VMS/Vax for ST400 (Swift), but back in mid 1990s,8 >> this was outsourced to an outside firm. Not sure what happened since2 >> they unfortunatly merged with Toronto Dominion. >a> > Alliance from Swift, and Merva from IBM are the two dominant Swifta1 > messaging apps these days. Neither runs on VMS.r >e8 > The sad truth is that EVERYBODY once ran VMS. Digital, Compaq, and nowh >...  = VMS is still in many of the banks in Toronto (and the rest of > the world), you can try asking FMC (www.fmco.com) for a client- list for proof, but I doubt you would get it.l   -- Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.i) Serving Southern Ontario/Western New York    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:45:24 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i. Subject: Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, CanadaI Message-ID: <8Gxpa.150159$jVh.68391@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>h  ? "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote inu7 message news:b867mg$62j8g$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...  > John Smith wrote:c9 > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote iny	 > messagep- > > news:3EA5D389.DF4580AA@vl.videotron.ca...  > >> John Smith wrote: > >...= > >>> As far as I know of the 5 banks whose executive officesn > are in< > >>> Toronto, only one was using Alphaservers in the past 5 > years forg? > >>> anything significant - an Oracle data warehouse on Tru64.t > >>@ > >> Canada Trust ran VMS/Vax for ST400 (Swift), but back in mid > 1990s,: > >> this was outsourced to an outside firm. Not sure what > happened since4 > >> they unfortunatly merged with Toronto Dominion. > >.@ > > Alliance from Swift, and Merva from IBM are the two dominant > Swift<3 > > messaging apps these days. Neither runs on VMS.t > > : > > The sad truth is that EVERYBODY once ran VMS. Digital, > Compaq, and nowi > >... >t? > VMS is still in many of the banks in Toronto (and the rest ofo@ > the world), you can try asking FMC (www.fmco.com) for a client/ > list for proof, but I doubt you would get it.     > FMC, last I heard, was doing more service bureau business than hardware/software 'packages'.t  ? I could probably get a pretty good figure from them at the nextb meeting I have with them.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:15:11 -0400o< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, Canada5 Message-ID: <b86e6r$6etbc$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>d   John Smith wrote:E >...; > FMC, last I heard, was doing more service bureau businessc than > hardware/software 'packages'.e  = My understanding is that they have some clients using them asD< a service bureau and some clients have their own VMS systems; at the client's site. Either way I would still say that the < client is a VMS user (but then again, I try to be optimistic  when counting VMS customers :) )  < > I could probably get a pretty good figure from them at the next > meeting I have with them.o  = Rats, based on some of your previous posts I thought you were > at FMC. Have we ever met? Royal Trust maybe (I left there just- before they were taken over by Royal Bank)???d   -- Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc. ) Serving Southern Ontario/Western New Yorks   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:28:13 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s. Subject: Re: Job Opportunity - Toronto, CanadaI Message-ID: <N2Apa.144996$Vzu.61742@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  ? "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> wrote ini7 message news:b86e6r$6etbc$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de...i > John Smith wrote:r > >...= > > FMC, last I heard, was doing more service bureau businesst > than! > > hardware/software 'packages'.  >l? > My understanding is that they have some clients using them asp> > a service bureau and some clients have their own VMS systems= > at the client's site. Either way I would still say that thee> > client is a VMS user (but then again, I try to be optimistic" > when counting VMS customers :) ) >o> > > I could probably get a pretty good figure from them at the > next > > meeting I have with them.t >h? > Rats, based on some of your previous posts I thought you wereL@ > at FMC. Have we ever met? Royal Trust maybe (I left there just/ > before they were taken over by Royal Bank)???     @ RT used to be a client of mine waaay waaay back for fixed incomeD portfolio analytics. Did you know Don Webster and Maureen Stapleton?F They were the people I mostly dealt with on the asset management side.  B I have a funny feeling we may have met at one time or another. YouC were at one of the steel co's weren't you? One was also a client of  mine.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 03:07:00 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: Netbackup x OpenVMS questions ?/ Message-ID: <3EA63B5D.73A01FD6@vl.videotron.ca>r   Fabio Cardoso wrote:A > b) Full is configured in the same way but without /since=backupC > I > backup device:[000000...]/exclude=(*.rda;*,*.snp;*,*.rdb;*,*.tmp,*.dmp)d  L If you do not have /IMAGE, then you need to properly document the proceduresL needed to recreate that disk drive should it need to be recreated. You couldN have some INIT_DISK.COM procedure setup that initialises the replacement driveM with the right parameters (volume name , cluster size etc etc) so that if youaD need to restore the drive, you can prepare the dive first with thsoe+ procedures and the restore the data files. o  I But the lack of /IMAGE for a system disk is far more problematic not only R because of boot blocks, but also due to the alias subdirectory structures etc etc.  N Note also that in the backup of your data files, any files that are alias (setJ file /enter) will be copied twice to backup, and upon restore, if I am notG mistaken, two separate copies will be created instead of the second one  pointing to the first one.  H Furthermore,  the recreated disk will have files with different file IDsK because it wasn't backed up with /IMAGE, so you have to make sure that yoursM database/software is OK with it and doesn't rely on file id of a file staying 	 the same.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:47:33 +0100e' From: "Alan Fay" <alan.fay@veritas.com>-, Subject: Re: Netbackup x OpenVMS questions ?4 Message-ID: <b85r08$ec9$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Fabio,  5 Your questions are answered in the NBU OpenVMS Client $ User Guide which is available from:-  I ftp://ftp.emea.support.veritas.com/pub/support/Products/NetBackup_OpenVMSk     nbu_vms.pdfs  3 Regarding the backup and restore of a system disk:-i  6 The VERITAS NBU OpenVMS client will support the backup4 and restore of a bootable OpenVMS system disk in the/ next v4.5 MP4 (Maintenance Pack Four) release:-r  <  o  This release will backup and restore a bootable OpenVMS 7     system disk.  All alias directories, including the u?     SYSCOMMON.DIR directory which points to the VMS$COMMON.DIR  8     directory, are now backed up and restored correctly.7     System disk files that are required to be restored v6     contiguously are now restored as contiguous files.(     See Section 12 System Disk Backups.   :  o  Where possible this release will restore all files as 8     contiguous files. A complete restore of a disk will +     effectively defragment the entire disk.u  9  o  This release provides full support for OpenVMS ODS-5 c0     file systems (this is available now in MP3).   Alan Fay VERITAS Software Corporation m Roseville Engineeringr    G In article <20030423045714.50961.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, "Fabio * Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:   > Alan > I > Please let me know if you dont want to receive emails from the list but" > by the way...e > G > As  NBU doesnt perform image backups and I am not the responsbile foriI > storage issues at the company but I am worried... there are two classesr0 > of backups configured for the OpenvMS servers: >  > => Incremental and Fulln > ? > a) Incremental is configured as (I dont remember the real NBUn
 > sintax...):a > ( > backup/since=backup device:[000000...]0 > /exclude=(*.rda;*,*.snp;*,*.rdb;*,*.tmp,*.dmp) > H > Is this syntax right ?  Does NBU makes a shell of DCL backup command ? >  > A > b) Full is configured in the same way but without /since=backupt > I > backup device:[000000...]/exclude=(*.rda;*,*.snp;*,*.rdb;*,*.tmp,*.dmp)s > ) > Is it OK for an all-files-copy backup ?s >  > > > Do I need to put the version asterisk in the tmp/dmp files ? > D > Another question ? How to make RMU/BACKUP work under NBU ? If thisE > command above look like DCL BACKUP, looks like it's possible to runr > RMU/BACKUP too ! > 	 > Regardst >  > Fabio Cardoso  >  >  >  > =====i > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Braziln > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > C > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?sG > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:29:06 +0200f, From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@hp.com>B Subject: Re: ODS2: Relation between cluster size and maximum files, Message-ID: <3ea67beb$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   > John Brandon >-J > If you have an ORACLE database on the disk - only - then you may want toJ > initialize /cluster=x where x is larger based on the file size.  This is only > if you have large DB files.D >j     Hi,h  ; for Oracle the roule of thumb is CLUSTERSIZE = db_blocksize.   best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:35:59 -0500e From: brandon@dalsemi.comlB Subject: Re: ODS2: Relation between cluster size and maximum files1 Message-ID: <03042307355940@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>>   > > John BrandonL > > If you have an ORACLE database on the disk - only - then you may want toL > > initialize /cluster=x where x is larger based on the file size.  This is$ > > only if you have large DB files. > >a > Hi,t= > for Oracle the roule of thumb is CLUSTERSIZE = db_blocksizet > best, Gorazd   Thanks!e   John Brandon VMS Systems Administratore Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fxe   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:10:30 -0700' From: mahmed@thcg.org (Mohamed K Ahmed)s Subject: OpenVMS and MUMPS= Message-ID: <7d9c6116.0304230710.68e6a7e5@posting.google.com>i  D Does anyone know if Intersystems MUMPS version 6.4-F17 is compatible or not with OpenVMS 7.3-1?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:55:19 +0100 - From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>e Subject: RE: OpenVMS and MUMPSE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE82@tahiti.tinuk.com>e  F AFAIK the only versions of DSM [are you talking DSM or ISM?] which hasD been or will be verified against 7.3-1 will be from DSM 7.2 on - DSMF 7.1.2 is unsupported.. Which really means only 7.3! If you are talking0 about ISM, then I can't answer that one for you.  7 You could try asking in comp.lang.mumps for the answer.p   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [P](44)01295 274388d [F](44)01295 275131> www.torex.com=20   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Mohamed K Ahmed [mailto:mahmed@thcg.org]=20a > Sent: 23 April 2003 16:11t > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. > Subject: OpenVMS and MUMPS >=20 >=20> > Does anyone know if Intersystems MUMPS version 6.4-F17 is=20' > compatible or not with OpenVMS 7.3-1?c >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:17:00 +0200e/ From: "Jan Sierens" <jan.sierens@glaverbel.com>d% Subject: OpenVMS marketing in Belgium ; Message-ID: <3ea63dec$0$28222$4d4efb8e@read.news.be.uu.net>g  J It seems to me that OpenVMS is well treated in Belgium, perhaps an example for others :  8 http://i-dm.be/c2/d2.asp?uID=2ls11g86sfa&aID=194&cID=166  
 Kind regards,s         Jan Sierensi         OpenVMS consultant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:49:32 +0100o* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: OpenVMS marketing in Belgiumy+ Message-ID: <b865ld$icm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>s  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:6Gwpa.149375$jVh.125268@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  F > 'new technologies'???  Web services have not been 'new technologies' > for 5 years.  I It's true that the first implementation of XMLRPC was 5 years ago (just). F They've not seen wide use for a fraction of that time, though. Amazon, for example, less than a year.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:37:06 GMTb# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s) Subject: Re: OpenVMS marketing in BelgiumgJ Message-ID: <6Gwpa.149375$jVh.125268@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Jan Sierens" <jan.sierens@glaverbel.com> wrote in message5 news:3ea63dec$0$28222$4d4efb8e@read.news.be.uu.net...eD > It seems to me that OpenVMS is well treated in Belgium, perhaps an examplea > for others : >f: > http://i-dm.be/c2/d2.asp?uID=2ls11g86sfa&aID=194&cID=166 >e  E It's nice that HP is doing this with *existing customers* in order to - try to stem the erosion of the customer base.h  @ "where you will learn how to make your *existing applications onF OpenVMS* accessible, internally and externally, and how to prepare for3 integrating new technologies such as Web services."a  D 'new technologies'???  Web services have not been 'new technologies' for 5 years.    > Let us know when you see advertising and marketing directed at new-to-VMS customers.e   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 08:53:29 -0700" From: insomnee_a@yahoo.co.uk (rob) Subject: Oracle & OpenVMSn= Message-ID: <3610450e.0304230753.2b6d1af9@posting.google.com>e  E We have a number of Oracle 7.3.4.3 and Oracle 8.0.5.0.1 databases andtB would like to upgrade from our current version of OpenVMS 7.2-1 onC Alpha to the latest version in our posession, v7.3-1. One reason isrD not being able to get support from HP/Compaq without a prior support contract, etc...  E Does anyone have any issues or know of any problems surrounding this,mB or has anyone been in a similar situation and already upgraded? We. believe Oracle would just say "Can't help ya!"   Thanks in anticipation   Rob.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:59:28 +0000 (UTC).+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)d Subject: Re: Oracle & OpenVMSd+ Message-ID: <b86gpg$f9k$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   b In article <3610450e.0304230753.2b6d1af9@posting.google.com>, insomnee_a@yahoo.co.uk (rob) writes:F >We have a number of Oracle 7.3.4.3 and Oracle 8.0.5.0.1 databases andC >would like to upgrade from our current version of OpenVMS 7.2-1 onoD >Alpha to the latest version in our posession, v7.3-1. One reason isE >not being able to get support from HP/Compaq without a prior supportt >contract, etc...h > F >Does anyone have any issues or know of any problems surrounding this,C >or has anyone been in a similar situation and already upgraded? Wee/ >believe Oracle would just say "Can't help ya!"M >yM The certification matrix at http://metalink.oracle.com would suggest that you6L need to upgrade your databases to at least Oracle 8.1.7 whilst on VMS 7.2-1 C (Oracle 9.0.1 is also supported on VMS 7.2-1 but Oracle 9.2 isn't).uG Once you have performed that upgrade you can then upgrade to VMS 7.3-1.E  K Oracle 7.3.4.3 and Oracle 8.0.5.0.1 may work with VMS 7.3-1 but I certainlyw  wouldn't act on that assumption.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >Thanks in anticipation\ >o >Rob.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:06:52 +0000 (UTC)f. From: "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> Subject: Oracle and VMSA0 Message-ID: <b86h7c$b7t$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  E We have a number of Oracle 7.3.4.3 and Oracle 8.0.5.0.1 databases andsB would like to upgrade from our current version of OpenVMS 7.2-1 onC Alpha to the latest version in our posession, v7.3-1. One reason isfD not being able to get support from HP/Compaq without a prior support contract, etc...  E Does anyone have any issues or know of any problems surrounding this,dB or has anyone been in a similar situation and already upgraded? We. believe Oracle would just say "Can't help ya!"   Thanks in anticipation   Rob.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:09:22 +0000 (UTC)i. From: "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Oracle and VMSm2 Message-ID: <b86hc2$hef$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  K Have just posted this earlier. Having probs with my server so if it appears  in duplicate, my apologies!h  9 "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> wrote in message-* news:b86h7c$b7t$1@sparta.btinternet.com...G > We have a number of Oracle 7.3.4.3 and Oracle 8.0.5.0.1 databases andMD > would like to upgrade from our current version of OpenVMS 7.2-1 onE > Alpha to the latest version in our posession, v7.3-1. One reason isbF > not being able to get support from HP/Compaq without a prior support > contract, etc... >>G > Does anyone have any issues or know of any problems surrounding this,oD > or has anyone been in a similar situation and already upgraded? We0 > believe Oracle would just say "Can't help ya!" >o > Thanks in anticipation >] > Rob. >h >[   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 07:42:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f< Subject: Re: OT: Re: DARPA Cancels OS Project After Comments3 Message-ID: <YpjvSWZmT5CV@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  _ In article <YY2cnTY4PoWBLzijXTWcrg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:e > K > So it looks like any 'firing' will have to come from elsewhere, and theretN > are enough people whom his actions have *seriously* inconvenienced that this" > does not seem all that unlikely   <    So are you volunteering in any of the oponents campaigns?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:36:50 -0400e5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>> Subject: PRODUCT "UNREGISTER"h2 Message-ID: <QsCmPut7pATJ+5gXGnMF4wHbZQJu@4ax.com>  ?     I have a V7.3-1 system that is a cloned copy of a differenty: system disk.  On the old system, Compaq Secure Web Browser@ is installed, but is not on the system disk.  On the new system,8 CSWB is in the PRODUCT database, but I cannot remove it,5 since it points to a disk that is not on that system.b  ;     Does anyone know of a way to "unregister" a product?  I>; can't find a way to do it, and renaming the *.PCSI$DATABASEi file does not get the job done.s   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:50:41 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ! Subject: Re: PRODUCT "UNREGISTER"q; Message-ID: <01KV2UBOJOVIA9SJ2F@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  = > I have a V7.3-1 system that is a cloned copy of a different < > system disk.  On the old system, Compaq Secure Web BrowserB > is installed, but is not on the system disk.  On the new system,: > CSWB is in the PRODUCT database, but I cannot remove it,7 > since it points to a disk that is not on that system.l > 9 > Does anyone know of a way to "unregister" a product?  Ip= > can't find a way to do it, and renaming the *.PCSI$DATABASEy! > file does not get the job done..  I I suspect that lots of people clone disks.  If you have several machines >I and want to upgrade them all, it's a waste of time to install stuff from  I CD on each one individually, especially if a lot of layered products etc  H are also installed.  It makes much more sense to do it on one disk then C clone the others (which is relatively easy if all system disks are  F shadow sets, since one could reboot the system from a copy of the new H master disk and after it comes up add a former member of the shadow set  as a copy target etc).  C It would be nice if there were a documented, supported way of doingn this.  l   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2003 03:40:11 -0700 From: mb301@hotmail.com (MB) Subject: UCX PROBLEM= Message-ID: <1d08b916.0304230240.376f10bf@posting.google.com>e  7 Running ucx version OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.2 - ECO 4.l  
 $ telnet 0$ %TELNET-I-TRYING, Trying ... X.X.X.X2 %TELNET-I-SESSION, Session 01, host ALPHA, port 23( -TELNET-I-ESCAPE, Escape character is ^]- %TELNET-E-INETERROR, Internet interface error D -SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failed.   $ UCX SHOW COM?                                  Maximum     Current       Peako@ Interfaces                            20           3           3@ Device_sockets                       750         516         534@ Routes                             65535        3279        3279@ Services                             200         198         200( Proxies                              500  F Type:        Ethernet   Free     Maximum   Max Bytes     Minimum   Min BytesaF Large buffers             20         200      428800          10       21440hF Small buffers            150        8000     2048000          50       12800 ( IRPs                      20         200 Non UCX buffers           10   Remote Terminali   Large buffers:          10   UCBs:                    4   Virtual term:     disabled  /                                    MBUF Summaryi@                       Small_static  Large_static  Small_dynamic 
 Large_dynamictF  Total buffers                  50            10           4750             10oF  Free                            0             2             35              4   Busy F   Data                           0             8              0              6hF   Header                         0             0            455              0 F   Socket                        17             0            498              0EF   Prot. control                  8             0            491              0 F   Route                         19             0           3271              0iF   Socket name                    0             0              0              0>F   Socket options                 0             0              0              0nF   Fragment reassembly            0             0              0              0tF   IP address                     3             0              0              0 F  Size of cluster             13056         21696           5776          21808u  F                 Free       Current          Peak          Waits          DropseF  Small Buffers                4765          4769           2541 <<<          0iF  Large Buffers                  14           119              0              0 F  IRPs              6           395           401              0              0h  E                     Small clusters  Large clusters    Non UCX buffersS?  Free                            0             1              0h  C Could someone tell me why we have so many waits, and what is wrong.h6 300+ users are working ok, however people can't login.   Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 16:36:00 +0100h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>3 Subject: UK "Computing" registration - Mentions VMSt) Message-ID: <3EA6B2E0.EDB9199D@127.0.0.1>s  H Just filling in my Computing registration, and this is question 11, with1 two columns, Currently Using and IT Specialist...i   (Cut/paste)   D 11. Which of the following areas are you a) currently using b) an IT specialist?   Operating Systems:                                            Currently usingG                                                                   An ITt
 specialist  Windows XPif                                                                                                         Windows 95/98/Me g                                                                                                           Windows NT/2000x                                                                                                                           Unixtv                                                                                                                         SolarisJ                                                                             Mac OS/OSXeD                                                                     :  Linux/Free BSD                                           J                                                                             AIXQ                                                                                  e  HP-UXJ                                                                             OS400           MVS/OS390/ZOS                                  	  SCO Unix.-                                              i	  Unixwareo3                                                       VMS.                                                 Windows Server 2003 -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:20:27 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: UK "Computing" registration - Mentions VMSaI Message-ID: <vXzpa.144939$Vzu.15070@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageu# news:3EA6B2E0.EDB9199D@127.0.0.1...-E > Just filling in my Computing registration, and this is question 11,  with3 > two columns, Currently Using and IT Specialist...I >s
 > (Cut/paste)  >sF > 11. Which of the following areas are you a) currently using b) an IT
 > specialist?k >  Operating Systems< >                                            Currently usingF >                                                                   An IT > specialist
 >  Windows XP) >i >  Windows 95/98/MeI >Q >  Windows NT/2000 >s >  Unix, >l
 >  Solaris >n
 >  Mac OS/OSXl >) >  Linux/Free BSDi >  >  AIX >$ >  HP-UX >n >  OS400 >c >  MVS/OS390/ZOS >> >  SCO UnixC >t >  Unixwarep >i >  VMS >m >  Windows Server 2003    D It's a pretty sad state of affairs that we have to resort to posting( when VMS is actually mentioned for once.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 09:37:12 GMTo0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: VMS721_SYS_DB v1.0?0 Message-ID: <c9tpa.225$1K3.128@news.cpqcorp.net>  2 "Tom Adams" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:ea44f5a1.0304220642.36902b79@posting.google.com...e/ > The COMPAQ ANALYZE 2.1 release notes say thato >o2 > VMS721_SYS_DB V1.0 is a pre-requisite for 7.2-1. >n Hellow  < Do you have a pointer on compaq analyze 2.1 releases notes ?   I see at (url may wrap)oL http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/webes/docs/ig/help/wwhelp/js/html1 /frames.htm?context=webes_install&topic=titlepagee    I that for Webes/Compaq Analyze 4.1, on Vms 7.2-2 to 7.3-1 some patches ares needed  - By the way, Vms 7.2-1 is no longer supported.    see,? http://h18005.www1.hp.com/services/software/ss_pvs_se_amap.htmlu   regards    Grard   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.224 ************************