1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 26 Apr 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 230       Contents: Re: Fortel go bye-bye!= RE: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd! H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly Microsoft-bashing image + MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations... / Re: MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations... E Re: Personal Firewalls - was Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected  Re: Q - Printer Problems Re: Q - Printer Problems Re: Q - Printer Problems6 Radeon 7500 support for OpenVMS - anyone tried it yet?" Re: Setting MTU for TCPIP services Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMS  Using ArcServe to backup VAX/VMS1 Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report C [DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 ECO2] What has happened to the DECNET_VERSION ? F [TCPIP V5.3 ECO2, DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 ECO2] DHCP Client - Startup Phase  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2003 07:11:40 -0700/ From: prosullivan@aol.com (prosullivan@aol.com)  Subject: Re: Fortel go bye-bye! = Message-ID: <a14b767a.0304260611.7832b413@posting.google.com>   i svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) wrote in message news:<5a85bce2.0304250652.2f37c111@posting.google.com>...  > "To All FORTEL Customers:  ...   F > This is to advise you that on April 23, 2003 the Bankruptcy Court of< > Northern California; Oakland Division approved the sale ofG > substantially all of the assets of FORTEL Inc (FORTEL) to Divestiture H > Management Corporation (DMC). The potential of this sale was announced7 > in a previous communication to you on March 18, 2003.  >>  
 > Terry Ewing  > Sr VP Field Operations"   > Which does not quite tally with the website: www.fortel.com...  F "On April 23, 2003 the Bankruptcy Court of Northern California Oakland@ Division approved the sale of substantially all of the assets of8 FORTEL Inc. (FORTEL) to DivestCap Management Corporation> ("DivestCap").  DivestCap is assuming full control of FORTEL'sD operations, retaining the product development, customer service, andC product support teams.  Headquartered in Fairfax, Virginia, the new A FORTEL will be able to build on its 20 years of leadership in the D performance monitoring and capacity planning market while drawing onB DivestCap's substantial human and financial resources to drive the+ SightLine product family forward worldwide. F The new company is committed to providing the highest quality customer support.> A full Press Release and more information will be forthcoming.5 For our SupportWeb Database please go to SupportWeb."   L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------  % So Scott, where did you get the info?   " Good job I use PerfCap products...   regards    pos    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:47:56 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> F Subject: RE: How Alpha will save Itanium - must reading for Bill Todd!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4040ECFF2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  D > > By George, Bob, you've finally come around to the conclusions=20 > I reached ? > nearly two years ago when people like you, Kerry, and Mark=20  > Gorham (the lastH > as reported by Alphaman) were spewing nonsense about an Alpha-enhanced@ > 'IA64-2' or 'combined Alpha/IA64' (that would be *required*=20 > for VMS to runH > on) appearing by the time the VMS port was completed (i.e., clearly by@ > 2004), thus avoiding the need for an EV7 shrink to 130 nm. =20   Bill,    Rewriting history are we know?   :-)   G I never stated anywhere that that an IPF design with "Alpha influenced" G features would be *required* for VMS to run when it was first ported to  IPF.=20   E Go for it - do your google stuff and try and find a post from me that B stated it was a *requirement* that had to be there by 2004 for the initial OpenVMS release.  B I have stated on a number of occasions that, imho, the OpenVMS IPFE release will likely be similar to when the initial Alpha servers came G out i.e. at that time the big VAX's were more powerful than the initial B Alpha's, but over time, the Alpha's pulled away from the VAX's.=20  3 My view has not changed from the beginning on this.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    =20    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 26 Apr 03 10:00:39 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8ds27$k09$4@bob.news.rcn.net>   ' In article <3EA9CCBC.96EC4BC1@ev1.net>, -    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >>  / >> In article <3ea830fc$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, - >>    "Bob  Lail" <robert.lail@hp.com> wrote: H >> >Before this degrades into another bash HP for not providing a way to	 >> report  >> >security issues, >>  ? >> [surprised emoticon here]  I'm not bashing HP nor did I have ? >> any intention of bashing HP (they're still on probation from / >> my POV w.r.t. how good they're going to be).  >>  C >> I'm looking at the part of the world that has been infected with ? >> PC-itis and the clunky thinking that seems to be going along  >> with it.  >>  > >The disease of PC-itis seems to preclude rational thought. IfA >these folks were really thinking, how could they possibly accept D >the "truth" as given out by Mi$uck. "Just re-boot and re-install...0 >it's a normal part of computing."   Bleeeech!!!  @ Sigh!  They don't consider it as truth; this isn't a religion.  C A PC is a tool to use to do something like play a game or webbit.   ? What they want is to unpack it, plug it in, and use it without  C reading the installation instructions...similar to buying a hammer  = or a toaster.  This is OK if the tool is going to be used to  @ hammer a few nails or feed the kids breakfast.  It will not work> for building a skyscraper or feed the 7th Cavalry for the next five years.   A VMS is an OS that can do the skyscraper and feeding an army jobs. ? It takes money to keep it in shape, adjust to new hardware, and ? stop up leaks.  The PC mentality doesn't account for this cost. 3 Shit...the PC mentality doesn't believe in backups.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:31:15 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly : Message-ID: <DSvqa.19184$q02.962632@twister.austin.rr.com>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: : C : VMS is an OS that can do the skyscraper and feeding an army jobs. A : It takes money to keep it in shape, adjust to new hardware, and A : stop up leaks.  The PC mentality doesn't account for this cost. 5 : Shit...the PC mentality doesn't believe in backups.  :  : /BAH :      Amen !!   > The FTC should pass a ruling that no software can be called an? "operating system' unless it includes a backup/retore tool that ? can handle the "bare metal" restore, such as when the boot disk   has suffered a hardware failure.  = Of course it helps to have a device to back up to, which many $ PCs don't have, other than a floppy.   VMS   has a bootable CD  AIX   has mksysb HP-UX has Ignite-UX   2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 26 Apr 03 12:24:42 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8e4ga$ht0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   : In article <DSvqa.19184$q02.962632@twister.austin.rr.com>,/    LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >:  D >: VMS is an OS that can do the skyscraper and feeding an army jobs.B >: It takes money to keep it in shape, adjust to new hardware, andB >: stop up leaks.  The PC mentality doesn't account for this cost.6 >: Shit...the PC mentality doesn't believe in backups. >:   >: /BAH  >:   >  >  >Amen !! >  >The FTC should pass a ruling   < GOOD GOD, NOOOO!!!!  Have you taken a look at your telephone? bill lately?  That's what happens when you get an entity of the < FTC flavor involved.  They don't even need a fucking law to  extract money from my pocket.   & > ...that no software can be called an@ >"operating system' unless it includes a backup/retore tool that@ >can handle the "bare metal" restore, such as when the boot disk! >has suffered a hardware failure.   E On the other hand, I rather agree about operating system definitions. G <sniff, sniff>  I think I smell smoke ;-).  Defining "operating system" @ does border on the religious, like editors and code skip return ! indentation and upper/lower case.    > > >Of course it helps to have a device to back up to, which many% >PCs don't have, other than a floppy.   0 Huh?  All you need is a parallel or serial port.   >  >VMS   has a bootable CD >AIX   has mksysb  >HP-UX has Ignite-UX  < Are you saying that I have to strike a match to light an HP?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 26 Apr 03 12:42:56 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8e5ii$m6t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   + In article <b88qr3$n9c$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, /    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: F >In article <b88nbd$8ba$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:- >>In article <b86ede$f3q$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, 1 >>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: H >>>In article <b862k1$d4r$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:/ >>>>In article <b86053$dls$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, 3 >>>>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote: D >><snip-prefixing is a mess>  WILL YOU CHANGE THAT FUCKING RM TO 65? >>G >>>>Our customers knew better than to just blindly patch an executable.  >>>>3 >>>But thats exactly what DEC and Compaq have been  # >>>telling support customers to do  
 >>>for ages.   >>7 >>Pfui.  If there's a label, you can tell if it's going  >>to blow something useful.  >> >>> ..The patch descriptions on  >>> ( >>>ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/ >> >>Sorry, I can't webbit. >> >>> E >>>don't provide enough of a description to know whether it affects    >>>addr+FORVAL(T2) >>> >>You look at what it's replacing; we expected customers to be >>nominally responsible. >> >>1 >>>And yes a prudent system's manager will apply  " >>>a patch on a test system first. >>C >>AFTER he looks at the problem getting addressed, determining that G >>he could use the fix, and then examining the patch for applicability.  >>A >Of course you check the description to see whether the patch is   applicable.  >however when the patch says :-  >   >Installation rating : Install_1 > ; >                      1 - to be installed by all customers  >  >ie a Mandatory patch  > # >then you tend to want to apply it.   A Sure, but not site-unseen.  Just the offsets on every machine are @ different.  There's a difference between patch a running monitor4 and patching one on disk (which then gets reloaded).   > E >>Then, and only then, does any code get touched.  Testing is another D >>complicated scenario depending on the customer site.  And only the@ >>customer can determine what any of these procedures are.  GearF >>owners who expect all this stuff to be done automatically, perfectlyA >>with no side effects shouldn't be allowed to shovel manure, let 4 >>alone have access to a keyboard or a power button. >>1 >>>However if that suceeds he has pretty much no    >>>choice but to apply it on the >>>production systems. >>> / >>>The days when bit gods examined the code of  % >>>every patch and checked it against 5 >>>the code it was patching in the OS are long gone.   >>C >>I don't believe that.  Only those who seem to suffer from PC-itis  >>don't examine their bits.  >> > G >You really are living in the past. System managers haven't the time or  >expertise to do this.    > Then they had better make the time or hire somebody whose time is blocked out to do that work.   8 > ..They have to rely on the expertise of the engineers ? >who produced the patch and the vendor's patch testing process.   > And I'm telling you that they cannot rely on the expertise of > faraway engineers to ensure that the patch gets applied at the< proper location at the proper time (e.g. you don't patch the< disk I/O code of a running monitor while it's writing data).     >>>Most VMS system manager's  0 >>>don't have access to the VMS source listings. >>D >>Good grief.  Source listing don't help at all when you're patchingB >>relocatable software.  A CREF might but even that's not all that
 >>helpful. >>K >Nowaday's most system managers don't know anything about Macro so couldn't / >read the source or any other listings anyway.    C Oh, whatever the hell the equivalent is in the HLL world.  <sheesh>     # > . .Indeed I've interviewed people F >who have had years of VMS systems management experience who couldn't  program  >in anything other than DCL.  D And I've worked with people who have had years of TOPS-10 experienceA who couldn't program in anything.  Nobody can be an expert in all " layers of all systems of all gear.   > B >>Obviously, you would like somebody else to do this work for you.C >>That's all well and good.  This is how it used to be in the olden @ >>days too.  BUT are you willing to pay for it?  My guess is no.@ >>In the olden days, a customer would get this service by eitherA >>paying a maintenence support fee, buying his own programmer, or  >>all of the above.  >>E >So you are saying that in the "olden" days I would get someone from   Digital G >to individually check the bits on my particular systems against every   patch C >produced by Digital just by paying for a normal support contract ?   @ Yes, it was called a maintenance release.  And there were people@ out in the field who could do this work for you.  Most customers> suffered from territorial imperative and would rather have bit= changing under their control.  Now, granted, that was in days ; when kiddies begged to work on those hulking iron machines.  > , >I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge  > You should..  I'm not saying it was cake walk.  I'm not saying= that everything was hunky-dory.  All you had to do was attend A one DECUS and you'ld find out we all spent a lot of time arguing. & It was productive, passionate arguing.   > .. of those days since it was 5 >obviously before I started working with VMS in 1985.    My condolences.  ;-)   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:39:46 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ' Message-ID: <3EAAB652.70BEE134@fsi.net>    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > < > In article <DSvqa.19184$q02.962632@twister.austin.rr.com>,1 >    LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) wrote: 
 > > [snip]@ > >Of course it helps to have a device to back up to, which many' > >PCs don't have, other than a floppy.  > 2 > Huh?  All you need is a parallel or serial port.  @ ...and the software and supplemental hardware to make it happen.  A Then again, a lotta PCs come with CD-Rs today, or better. The old F Seagate Backup Exec (I have Backup Exec Desktop 98 V3.0a(Retail)) willD write backups to CD-R. Third-party software, I grant you, but that'sD about par for Mickey$hit. Hell, even MS-Backup is from someone else.A (Symantec? Dunno - can't even find it right now to check it out).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:46:48 +0000 (UTC) + From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b8ed5o$d50$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   E In article <b8e5ii$m6t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: , >In article <b88qr3$n9c$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,0 >   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:G >>In article <b88nbd$8ba$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: . >>>In article <b86ede$f3q$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,2 >>>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:I >>>>In article <b862k1$d4r$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: 0 >>>>>In article <b86053$dls$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,4 >>>>>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote:E >>><snip-prefixing is a mess>  WILL YOU CHANGE THAT FUCKING RM TO 65?  >>> H >>>>>Our customers knew better than to just blindly patch an executable. >>>>> 4 >>>>But thats exactly what DEC and Compaq have been $ >>>>telling support customers to do  >>>>for ages.  >>> 8 >>>Pfui.  If there's a label, you can tell if it's going >>>to blow something useful. >>>   >>>> ..The patch descriptions on >>>>) >>>>ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/  >>>  >>>Sorry, I can't webbit.  >>>  >>>>F >>>>don't provide enough of a description to know whether it affects   >>>>addr+FORVAL(T2)  >>> ? >>>You look at what it's replacing; we expected customers to be  >>>nominally responsible.  >>>  >>> 2 >>>>And yes a prudent system's manager will apply # >>>>a patch on a test system first.  >>> D >>>AFTER he looks at the problem getting addressed, determining thatH >>>he could use the fix, and then examining the patch for applicability. >>> B >>Of course you check the description to see whether the patch is  >applicable.  >>however when the patch says :- >>! >>Installation rating : Install_1  >>< >>                      1 - to be installed by all customers >> >>ie a Mandatory patch >>$ >>then you tend to want to apply it. > B >Sure, but not site-unseen.  Just the offsets on every machine areA >different.  There's a difference between patch a running monitor 5 >and patching one on disk (which then gets reloaded).  >  >>F >>>Then, and only then, does any code get touched.  Testing is anotherE >>>complicated scenario depending on the customer site.  And only the A >>>customer can determine what any of these procedures are.  Gear G >>>owners who expect all this stuff to be done automatically, perfectly B >>>with no side effects shouldn't be allowed to shovel manure, let5 >>>alone have access to a keyboard or a power button.  >>> 2 >>>>However if that suceeds he has pretty much no ! >>>>choice but to apply it on the  >>>>production systems.  >>>>0 >>>>The days when bit gods examined the code of & >>>>every patch and checked it against6 >>>>the code it was patching in the OS are long gone.  >>> D >>>I don't believe that.  Only those who seem to suffer from PC-itis >>>don't examine their bits. >>>  >>H >>You really are living in the past. System managers haven't the time or >>expertise to do this.  > ? >Then they had better make the time or hire somebody whose time   >is blocked out to do that work. > 9 >> ..They have to rely on the expertise of the engineers  @ >>who produced the patch and the vendor's patch testing process. > ? >And I'm telling you that they cannot rely on the expertise of  ? >faraway engineers to ensure that the patch gets applied at the = >proper location at the proper time (e.g. you don't patch the = >disk I/O code of a running monitor while it's writing data).  >  >   O It seems we have been talking at cross purposes here. I'm talking about normal  G security patches applied on disk taking effect when the system reboots. ; I'm definitely not talking about patching a running Kernel. N Yes if you are going to be patching the running kernel then you better be very* confident of the code you are putting in.          >>>>Most VMS system manager's 1 >>>>don't have access to the VMS source listings.  >>> E >>>Good grief.  Source listing don't help at all when you're patching C >>>relocatable software.  A CREF might but even that's not all that  >>>helpful.  >>> L >>Nowaday's most system managers don't know anything about Macro so couldn't0 >>read the source or any other listings anyway.  > D >Oh, whatever the hell the equivalent is in the HLL world.  <sheesh> >  > $ >> . .Indeed I've interviewed peopleG >>who have had years of VMS systems management experience who couldn't   >program >>in anything other than DCL.  > E >And I've worked with people who have had years of TOPS-10 experience B >who couldn't program in anything.  Nobody can be an expert in all# >layers of all systems of all gear.  >  >>C >>>Obviously, you would like somebody else to do this work for you. D >>>That's all well and good.  This is how it used to be in the oldenA >>>days too.  BUT are you willing to pay for it?  My guess is no. A >>>In the olden days, a customer would get this service by either B >>>paying a maintenence support fee, buying his own programmer, or >>>all of the above. >>> F >>So you are saying that in the "olden" days I would get someone from 	 >Digital  H >>to individually check the bits on my particular systems against every  >patch  D >>produced by Digital just by paying for a normal support contract ? > A >Yes, it was called a maintenance release.  And there were people A >out in the field who could do this work for you.  Most customers ? >suffered from territorial imperative and would rather have bit > >changing under their control.  Now, granted, that was in days< >when kiddies begged to work on those hulking iron machines. >>- >>I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge  > ? >You should..  I'm not saying it was cake walk.  I'm not saying > >that everything was hunky-dory.  All you had to do was attendB >one DECUS and you'ld find out we all spent a lot of time arguing.' >It was productive, passionate arguing.  >   >> .. of those days since it was6 >>obviously before I started working with VMS in 1985. >  >My condolences.  ;-)  >  >/BAH  > ( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2003 07:11:45 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Microsoft-bashing image3 Message-ID: <TkOvDO7faaIF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ Suitable for printing out and fastening to the side of your VAX.  , http://members.cox.net/darico1/microsoft.jpg   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2003 09:47:38 -0700- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) 4 Subject: MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations...= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0304260847.204b99c5@posting.google.com>    Hi all: F In my job Im using a MicroVAX 3100-98 (Personal Workstation). In this@ machine I have ~60 GB in SCSI HDs (a tower with 7 9.1 GB HDs).E When Im doing a RMU restore operation, the system crash, and I need  G issue ANALYSE/DISK/REPAIR when the system up. Im using VAX/VMS V5.5-2. B What could be crashing this system ? Can I use 9.1 HDs with this  VMSs version ?      Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:01:16 -0400 (EDT) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> 8 Subject: Re: MicroVAX crash in RMU/RESTORE operations...H Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.53L-031.0304261259120.2340@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>  I Doesnt VMS 5 have something like an 6 or 8 GB size limit on a filesystem? G you might want to install a newer version, or else split the disks into  multiple filesystems..9 (btw, i'll trade you an alpha for that microvax! *grin* )    isildur     * On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Shiva MahaDeva wrote:  	 > Hi all: H > In my job Im using a MicroVAX 3100-98 (Personal Workstation). In thisB > machine I have ~60 GB in SCSI HDs (a tower with 7 9.1 GB HDs).F > When Im doing a RMU restore operation, the system crash, and I needI > issue ANALYSE/DISK/REPAIR when the system up. Im using VAX/VMS V5.5-2. C > What could be crashing this system ? Can I use 9.1 HDs with this  > VMSs version ?  >  >  > Thanks in advance... >    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Apr 03 11:35:00 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) N Subject: Re: Personal Firewalls - was Email to Geoff.Graves@hp.com is rejected) Message-ID: <JuW2lBTjre0R@elias.decus.ch>   n In article <CM_oa.96616$BQi.76067@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 8 > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message% > news:Fn1234baz$ZE@elias.decus.ch... A >> In article <20030414110902.10.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher - > <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: C >> > On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  >> >>JF Mezei wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Paul Sture wrote:D >> >>> > pretty scathing about "personal firewalls" such as BlackIce
 > Defender or $ >> >>> > ZoneAlarm. Here's the link:0 >> >>> > http://www.samspade.org/d/persfire.html; >> >>> > and '"Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil' at 1 >> >>> > http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html  >> >>>B >> >>> Is there anyone who really beleived that a piece of windows > software could; >> >>> ever protect its own instance of a windows machine ?  >> >> @ >> >>A port sniffer type worm or virus is blocked by firewalling* >> >>applications, so there is some value. >> >A >> > Since I started using Kerio on my PC, I'd say these software  > firewalls doG >> > have some value. Every layer of security you can add helps make an G >> > intrusion more difficult. Comparing Kerio with ZoneAlarm, I'd call  > the  >> > latter a toy. >> > >>F >> I was hoping someone might jump in with a reference to Kerio, since, >> that's what Huntler Goatley recommends at >>. >>      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/w2k.html >>F >> I somehow suspect that Hunter knows a bit more than me about TCP/IP0 >> (understatement of the year?), hence my post. >  > D > a review appears in www.apcmag.com , in an article entitled "Great% > Walls of Fire", posted March 14/03, H > http://www.apcmag.com/apc/apcmag.nsf/1_alldocs/B2B4598F76F7137CCA256CD > 90001FC75  >    Thanks for the link.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:47:12 +0000 (UTC) ' From: "David Gray" <police@spamcop.net> ! Subject: Re: Q - Printer Problems / Message-ID: <b8drk0$lr0$1@titan.btinternet.com>   F Well that met with a deafening silence. I did post to comp.os.vms... ?    2 "David Gray" <police@spamcop.net> wrote in message+ news:ZvOcnUaM2-oTpgCjXTWcpg@giganews.com... 	 > Hi all,  >  > OpenVMS 7.3-1 7 > Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3  > HP LaserJet 4000 - PCL6  > G > Recently added a reset module to a VMS print queue for the purpose of ( > removing blank pages, now if more than9 > one print is sent the second and subsequent jobs stall.  > F > The printer queue uses the TCPIP$TELNETSYM symbiont and is set up as
 > follows: > I > Printer queue ITSERVPR1, idle, on JERRY::"itservpr1:9100", mounted form 
 > WORD11$FORM 4 >  /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=WORD11$FORM)C >  /LIBRARY=HP Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM   >  /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) >  > 
 > Example:: > XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt, > Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 161) pending3 >      pending status caused by queue stopped state : > XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt, > Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 162) pending3 >      pending status caused by queue stopped state : > XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt, > Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 163) pending3 >      pending status caused by queue stopped state  > XTS_JERRY> show entry  >  > XTS_JERRY> start itservpr16 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------7 >     162  1               GRAYD             1  Stalled - >          On stalled printer queue ITSERVPR1  > 7 >     163  1               GRAYD             1  Pending - >          On stalled printer queue ITSERVPR1  > K > The jobs do eventually print after 5-10 minutes and during this 'Stalled' * > period I'm getting the following message > from the OPS console.  > I >     TCPIP$TELNETSYM - (ITSERVPR1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB  660:$ > connect to network object rejected > E > Investigation on the net shows this to be caused by print jobs from  Windows : > not releasing the port after a successful print, and theK > workaround being to define the timeout logicals.  I have done this but am 5 > still unable to get rid delay due to jobs stalling.  >  > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > 4 >   "OPENVMS$TELNET" = "SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$TELNET.EXE"% >   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_ENABLE" = ".1.." 4 >   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00"# >   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1" . >   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1"" >   "TCPIP$TELNET_ENABLE" = ".1.."2 >   "UCX$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00"! >   "UCX$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1" , >   "UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1" > F > Has anyone come across this before and if so do you have a solution? > I > in case it matters the setup and reset modules contain the following...  >   > ******************************' > JD1:[GEN_USER.GRAYD]HPLJII_PORT.TXT;1  > & > <ESC>P<ESC>E<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l0S<ESC>\ >   > ******************************$ > JD1:[GEN_USER.GRAYD]HP_RESET.TXT;4 > % > <ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\<ESC>P<ESC>E<ESC>\  >  > and the form is defined as > ; > Form name                            Number   Description ; > ---------                            ------   ----------- ; > WORD11$FORM                              12   WORD11$FORM H >     /LENGTH=72 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=WORD11$FORM /WIDTH=1024 /WRAP >  > Thanks in advance, >  >     Dave.  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:04:48 +0200 / From: richard <yves-laurent.richard@wanadoo.fr> ! Subject: Re: Q - Printer Problems 8 Message-ID: <setkav8ur6rccu2fq911qichmgeuuv2336@4ax.com>  	 yes david   @ le probleme etant dans la definition du setup de la form sur VMS  ( la sequence du reset printer est bonne :  9 A PCL printer reset command <esc>E at the end of the job    : Mais la configuration de la forme sur vms est mauvaise....  8 definne/form WORD11$FORM                              12; WORD11$FORM/LENGTH=72 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=WORD11$FORM  /WIDTH=1024 /WRAP    Ok mais ...    /RESET=HP_RESET    best regard   E On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:15:06 +0100, "David Gray" <police@spamcop.net>  wrote:   >Hi all, >  >OpenVMS 7.3-16 >Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 >HP LaserJet 4000 - PCL6 > F >Recently added a reset module to a VMS print queue for the purpose of' >removing blank pages, now if more than 8 >one print is sent the second and subsequent jobs stall. > E >The printer queue uses the TCPIP$TELNETSYM symbiont and is set up as 	 >follows:  > H >Printer queue ITSERVPR1, idle, on JERRY::"itservpr1:9100", mounted form >WORD11$FORM3 > /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=WORD11$FORM) B > /LIBRARY=HP Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM > /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)  >  > 	 >Example: 9 >XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt + >Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 161) pending 2 >     pending status caused by queue stopped state9 >XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt + >Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 162) pending 2 >     pending status caused by queue stopped state9 >XTS_JERRY> print /que=itservpr1 /setup=HPLJII_PORT 1.txt + >Job 1 (queue ITSERVPR1, entry 163) pending 2 >     pending status caused by queue stopped state >XTS_JERRY> show entry >  >XTS_JERRY> start itservpr1 5 >  Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status 5 >  -----  -------         --------     ------  ------ 6 >    162  1               GRAYD             1  Stalled, >         On stalled printer queue ITSERVPR1 > 6 >    163  1               GRAYD             1  Pending, >         On stalled printer queue ITSERVPR1 > J >The jobs do eventually print after 5-10 minutes and during this 'Stalled') >period I'm getting the following message  >from the OPS console. >oM >    TCPIP$TELNETSYM - (ITSERVPR1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB 660:i# >connect to network object rejectedl >oL >Investigation on the net shows this to be caused by print jobs from Windows9 >not releasing the port after a successful print, and thesJ >workaround being to define the timeout logicals.  I have done this but am4 >still unable to get rid delay due to jobs stalling. >o >(LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)o >o3 >  "OPENVMS$TELNET" = "SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$TELNET.EXE"n$ >  "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_ENABLE" = ".1.."3 >  "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00"o" >  "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1"- >  "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1"i! >  "TCPIP$TELNET_ENABLE" = ".1.."o1 >  "UCX$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00".  >  "UCX$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1"+ >  "UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1"  > E >Has anyone come across this before and if so do you have a solution?  >?H >in case it matters the setup and reset modules contain the following... >r >****************************** & >JD1:[GEN_USER.GRAYD]HPLJII_PORT.TXT;1 > % ><ESC>P<ESC>E<ESC>&l0O<ESC>&l0S<ESC>\e >  >******************************V# >JD1:[GEN_USER.GRAYD]HP_RESET.TXT;4C >l$ ><ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\<ESC>P<ESC>E<ESC>\ >- >and the form is defined as- >-: >Form name                            Number   Description: >---------                            ------   -----------: >WORD11$FORM                              12   WORD11$FORMG >    /LENGTH=72 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=WORD11$FORM /WIDTH=1024 /WRAP  >s >Thanks in advance,. >7
 >    Dave. >o >. >> >  >  >  >  >T   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:07:01 GMTe4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)! Subject: Re: Q - Printer Problemss= Message-ID: <FDuqa.99376$gK.197271@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>r  Y In article <b8drk0$lr0$1@titan.btinternet.com>, "David Gray" <police@spamcop.net> writes: G >Well that met with a deafening silence. I did post to comp.os.vms... ?i >   * I don't remeber seeing this post before...   > 3 >"David Gray" <police@spamcop.net> wrote in messageB, >news:ZvOcnUaM2-oTpgCjXTWcpg@giganews.com...	 > Hi all,a >> >> OpenVMS 7.3-18 >> Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 >> HP LaserJet 4000 - PCL6 >>H >> Recently added a reset module to a VMS print queue for the purpose of) >> removing blank pages, now if more thano: >> one print is sent the second and subsequent jobs stall. <snip>L >> The jobs do eventually print after 5-10 minutes and during this 'Stalled'+ >> period I'm getting the following message  >> from the OPS console. >>J >>     TCPIP$TELNETSYM - (ITSERVPR1) open_socket_ast invoked with bad IOSB >660:r% >> connect to network object rejectede >>F >> Investigation on the net shows this to be caused by print jobs from >Windows; >> not releasing the port after a successful print, and the L >> workaround being to define the timeout logicals.  I have done this but am6 >> still unable to get rid delay due to jobs stalling. >> >> (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  >>5 >>   "OPENVMS$TELNET" = "SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$TELNET.EXE" & >>   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_ENABLE" = ".1.."5 >>   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00"K$ >>   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1"/ >>   "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1" # >>   "TCPIP$TELNET_ENABLE" = ".1.."13 >>   "UCX$TELNETSYM_IDLE_TIMEOUT" = "0 00:00:30.00"." >>   "UCX$TELNETSYM_RAW_TCP" = "1"- >>   "UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" = "1"e >>G >> Has anyone come across this before and if so do you have a solution?o  H I've seen this behavior before - The "idle_timeout" logical, and anotherN related logical (whose name currently esacpes me) are the "culprits" here.  IfL you have access to DSNlink/WIS, search in the TCP/IP section for "stall" andN "timeout" - there is at least one (and possibly more than one) nice article on troubleshooting this issue.   M This issue may also have made it into the latest TCP/IP doc - check that out,h as well.  O If neither of these things are available, go to the "Ask The Wizard" section of. the FAQ. <snip>  A _________________________________________________________________i0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"e   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2003 05:54:40 -07001 From: matthew.finbow@btinternet.com (Matt Finbow)c? Subject: Radeon 7500 support for OpenVMS - anyone tried it yet? = Message-ID: <ec25d2bf.0304260454.50ff4ab2@posting.google.com>r  D I see on the recent OpenVMS patch list, VMS731_GRAPHICS-V0100 is nowD out (Radeon 7500 support, released 22-APR-2003), has anyone tried it" yet with the PCI cards on a DS10L?   Regards,   Matthew Finbow   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:20:11 -0500n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>.+ Subject: Re: Setting MTU for TCPIP services-' Message-ID: <3EAABFCB.63ACA6C8@fsi.net>r   Phillip Helbig wrote:u > H > > Since I am switching from cable to adsl with that pesky PPPoE, it is6 > > recommended I set the MTU to 1452 instead of 1500. >  > Why the switch?C  H Long story short, and there are many here more qualified to answer this,F I believe the reason is to allow for PPPoE overhead so that the actual  packetsize does not exceed 1500.   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:05:50 -0500(1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h' Subject: Re: StorageTek on SAN with VMSI' Message-ID: <3EAABC6E.C08EA960@fsi.net>h   Scott Vieth wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E98D14D.581F11CA@fsi.net>... > L > > Well, not to intentionally be insulting, but that is my primary concern:G > > the subject of this as originally posted. You seem to have good SANuA > > experience in other areas, but my need is extremely specific.B > G > Yes, but you accept the *free* help when it is offered.  The VMS part D > of your config is just the "last mile".  The rest of the SAN-basedC > tape backup system will be tricky if you have not done it before.e  ? Been there, done that. SLS sucks in comparison to OASIS/RLM and ' TapeControl that MTI used to sell, IMO.g  E The really shitty part is getting your tape drives recognized by VMS.wB Pulled a few dozen teeth with HP and StorageTek before I got firstF useful clues. The answer is in the Guide to Cluster Configurations, if= anyone cares, Chpater 7, Section 7.5 re: SYSMAN IO FIND_WWID.t  G > > I'd liken that to the 80/20 rule: in this case, 80% of your effortsrH > > produce 20% of your results. I, on the other hand, have done the 20%I > > that produces 80% of my results before: develop Backup automation (on-J > > VMS) that splits shadow/mirror sets, load balances across tape drives,L > > performs (crude) locking to reduce interference with the overnight batchJ > > jobs, export cart.'s and rejoin shadow/mirror sets, all done in batch,) > > hands-off, lights-out and unattended.s > G > Whoopee-doo.  I've done all that in a CI-based cluster.  Playing withy; > Volume Shadowing and CI-based storage is a piece of cake.   H Controller-based RAID is bit more challenging, not mention that the onlyA software available for automation is unsupported and/or freeware.   A > I have also done the same things you mention in a fibre channeleG > environment on VMS.  We have some pretty cool DCL scripts that reducetD > a controller-based RAID 0+1 set, stripe the disks into a temporaryH > unit, take a controller-based snapshot of an online unit, present thatB > snapshot to the host, back it up (across multiple tape drives inE > parallel), tear down the snapshot units and put the disks back intoo, > their original places in the RAID 0+1 set.  D Now, add to that: some DCL to examine the output of SHOW STORAGE andF arbitrate which devices are eleigible to be removed from which storageE sets to build the units you will present to VMS for backup. My backupmC code does that, also. It also does "locking" to prevent more than x<E backup jobs from trying to draw data through any given HSJ at any oneN? time. This was needed to prevent negative impact on the regularSB overnight batch processing that ran concurrently with the backups.  H > Oh wait, you've never touched an HSG80 so you have no idea what I just< > said or how difficult it is to do this vs. doing it on CI.  F Try again. Google this group for my name, backup, etc. and you'll find the prior references.e  4 > BTW, our stuff runs hands-off, lights-out as well. > $ > > The original environment was the  > > SAN predecessor known as CI, > ! > I *know* what CI is, you knob. v   No shit, Jake.  ! > I have spent plenty of weekends G > installing CIPCAs and CIXCD cards.  And setting those annoying littletD > jumpers on the backplace to set the CI id for the CIXCDs.  Did youH > ever install the firmware in your CIXCDs to get them to use 4k packets > with the later model HSJs?  H Was laid off from Advocate before they ever got that far. Too much older gear on the CI at the time.e  + >  but it went to direct-attached SCSI whenrE > > higher tape throughput with lower CI impact was need to satisfy aeK > > mandate to shorten the backup "window" and lessen the interference withy > > the nightly processing.  > >pK > > > You seem to be a little confused on the "How do I attach a library tob > > > the SAN" part. > >sI > > Well, take the subject of the original post very literally. Attaching L > > the library to the SAN is one thing. Getting VMS to recognize and accessL > > the drives is of much broader scope, and that is the specific area whereF > > I need the expertise of someone who has already been where I'm now
 > > trekking.l > >eF > > By appearances, I am blazing a VMS trail here as few, if any, haveJ > > already done what I'm trying to do, including the vendors selling thisK > > stuff. They know it's possible, but when it comes to "how", they're alle  > > left scratching their heads. > D > No, you are being very pig-headed about the whole deal. You should@ > have accepted the free help instead of saying "NOOO! You don't > understand what I am asking.">  % You didn't, which is why I re-posted.d  G NOW, if you had SAID that StorageTek's FC-SCSI bridges are nothing moreRE than rebadged CrossRoads switches - as are HP's NSRs, then you'd havea said something useful.  F > If I really wanted to, I could attach our "test" DS20 to our ESL9326H > (which is SAN-attached) and let you drive up to Milwaukee to set it in9 > action.  But now I don't feel like helping you anymore..   Awww...e  E > Why don't you just log a call with Colorado Springs and get it overr > with.t  E Be my guest. You'll likely find out how much they've learned from ourh2 experiences over the course of the last two weeks.  D BTW - you'll find out that THE *SINGULAR* person still at HP who hasG *ANY* first-hand DCSC experience (especially new installs) is returningp> from vacation on Monday. Our go-live is this weekend (tonight,
 actually).   Good luck...   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Apr 2003 09:58:59 -0700- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) ) Subject: Using ArcServe to backup VAX/VMS = Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0304260858.6c26f157@posting.google.com>   > Id like to know if any guy haves experience using ArcServe to' backup VAX/VMS system - its possible ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:07:55 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o: Subject: Re: VMS Advertising & Marketing - a status report' Message-ID: <3EAABCEB.16A3043C@fsi.net>y   John Smith wrote:d > B > 3 weeks have passed now. No comments from the parties contacted.  ( Consistent with my experiences, as well.   -- > David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:53:20 GMTp6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)L Subject: [DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 ECO2] What has happened to the DECNET_VERSION ?3 Message-ID: <Qquqa.15248$v62.143762@news.chello.at>e  I It seems that the ECO2 of DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 (which is, as you can see oniL the version number, for the Alpha platform) did make the DECNET_VERSION some kind of bogus:  , 	$ write sys$output f$gets("decnet_version")	 	00050500e  D I vaguely remember, with ECO1 the version number was slightly higher (like 00050E05 or similar).i   Can anyone confirm this and/or8 does anyone know what has happened and/or how to fix it?   TIAe   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 14:17:11 GMTs6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)O Subject: [TCPIP V5.3 ECO2, DECnet-Plus V7.3-1 ECO2] DHCP Client - Startup Phaser3 Message-ID: <Hxwqa.17751$v62.170443@news.chello.at>   M After some playing around with the DCHP Client, it seems that the DCHP ClientnP of TCPIP doesn't work if started after DECnet (or LAT - DECnet compatible addr).J Sounds strange as, until this, the mantra was to start DECnet before every other network software.t  A 	Note: I mean DECnet-Plus. I don't know how Phase4 behaves there.i% 		DN4 is gone here over a decade ago.i  L DECnet is started automatically (in SYS$STARTUP:VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM)F while all other protocols have to be entered to the startup (SYSMAN or> SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM) by the customer/system manager.  ? 	Am I the only one who likes to see this changed and get DECnetwA 	treated like other products (means the sysmgr has to start it) ?   ) So, for the DCHP client, one option is to 9 1) define NET$IGNORE_DECNET in SYS$STARTUP:SYLOGICALS.COMi6 2) START/NET "TCP/IP" in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM> 3) deassign NET$IGNORE_DECNET in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM4 4) START/NET DECNET in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COMF 5) and maybe @SYS$STARTUP:LAT$STARTUP in SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM  > 	Am I the only one who hates to do "TCP/IP" instead of TCPIP ?> 	Why not change it (in SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM)> 	or at least add a 2nd SET NETWORK command with TCPIP keyword.   while the other is? 1) enter SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$STARTUP.COM in SYSMAN (CONFIG Phase)e   So, I choose the lattert  / 	$ SYSMAN ST AD FI TCPIP$STARTUP.COM /PH=CONFIGn   and all seems to work.  D Does anyone know a downside of this (obviously unsupported) config ?I Does anyone know of a way to start DCHP client after DECnet/LAT started ? L Does anyone know of a supported&working cfg for this (besides above option)?C Does it make already sense, to change the mantra (eg. in VMS FAQ) ?v   TIAi   -- r Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialistr E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.230 ************************avid J. Da 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 accepted.2 <<< PORT 81,88,224,107,27,128H5 >>> 200 Port 27.128 at Host 81.88.224.107 acce