1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 31 Jul 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 420       Contents:= Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline % Re: .com file to zero out disk errors ( Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server? Re: CMS-E-NORESERVATION, error reserving XYZ:[ABC.CMS_LIB]A.TXT O Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance N Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful PerformanceN Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Re: Itanium performance news...  Java 1.4.1 installation rant... + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.  Re: NT Clusters  Re: OpenVms Backup Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Quorom Disk/Node Overhead  Re: Quorom Disk/Node Overhead  Re: Read MAG tape to disk 0 SFF commands for TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_SFF.EXE2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?) Re: Sun and SCO  Re: Sun and SCO 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP  TCPIP 5.3 FTP behaviour  Re: TCPIP 5.3 FTP behaviour , Re: The solution is... Rhonda Lea does Mezei, Re: The solution is... Rhonda Lea does Mezei* Re: Third party volume shadowing products?, Re: VAT for non-EU suppliers to EU customers Re: Web Apps for VMS Re: Web Apps for VMS* Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:25:47 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> F Subject: Re: %EIA0, unsupported vendor (something), device set offline/ Message-ID: <vii9nb28dqolac@corp.supernews.com>   0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: : Post the output of: * : $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI( "HW_NAME" )    COMPAQ AlphaServer DS20E 833 MHz   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:02:05 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG. Subject: Re: .com file to zero out disk errors0 Message-ID: <00A23ABA.23C1F9F3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <3F286432.7A53C4A2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >Chuck Aaron wrote:  >>   >> anyone have one.  > A >Not a .COM file, but look at Hunter's freeware archive for ZDEC.  > F >Larry K. alludes to posts here from OVMS Engr. indicating that V7.3-2@ >will provide support for this from DCL (SET DEVICE extensions).  C ...and there's a technique I provided (which is in the OpenVMS FAQ) C that uses SDA and DELTA.  I'd code it up in a .COM but can't figure & out a way to pass commands into DELTA.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 07:57:04 -0700( From: system@meng.ucl.ac.uk (Mark Iline)1 Subject: Re: Campus and Pathworks/Advanced Server = Message-ID: <e3fef766.0307310657.6d6fbb8f@posting.google.com>   l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<vifduvmbhlea7f@corp.supernews.com>...7 > "Mark Iline" <system@meng.ucl.ac.uk> wrote in message 9 > news:e3fef766.0307290626.641fbbcc@posting.google.com...  > > J > > By purchasing a DECcampus licence on a particular system, we generallyF > > get unlimited access to non-royalty (ie those that DEC doesn't pay< > > someone else a royalty on) DEC products on that machine. > > 0 > Ahhh... I kind of figured something like that. > H > PATHWORKS for OpenVMS and Advanced Server for OpenVMS are both royalty > products.    Indeed, they are.   F We've been going around this one with various Compaq/HP people and our1 friendly (& impressive) reseller for a long time.   E For a long time there has been a PAK, ASDU-CONNECT, on the Campus CD, F which gives unlimited client access licences to an Advanced Server for DIGITAL Unix server.  E It was apparently as a result of pointing out this disparity (ie Unix @ PAK, no VMS PAK; can't see how one could be royalty if the otherF wasn't) to appropriate people, that the PWLMXXXCA07.03 PAK appeared on@ the CDs. However, it's currently zero units. Hopefully this is a< mistake, rather intentionally being a zero client licence...     Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:25:17 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: CMS-E-NORESERVATION, error reserving XYZ:[ABC.CMS_LIB]A.TXT3 Message-ID: <QOHbIofsxavT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <c7d01eb4.0307300801.104c66f7@posting.google.com>, abhijitbhosale@hotmail.com (Abhijit Bhosale) writes: > Hi, ' > I created cms library from one user.   > And created an element in it. 3 > But when other user tries to reserver same elemnt  > it's giving following error.  B    All users of a CMS library need write access to the CMS libraryC    directory and all of it's subdirectories, and full access to all     files in those directories.  G    Usually this is not done by setting "privileges" as the term is used G    in VMS, but by setting "file protections".  If user:[a.b] is the CMS H    library, and the users are in the same group, then you need at least:  )    $ set file user:[000000]a.dir/prot=g:e %    $ set file user:[a]b.dir/prot=g:rw 7    $ set file user:[a.b...]*.*/prot=g:rwed/exclude=.dir *    $ set file user:[a.b...]*.dir/prot=g:rw  C    If the users are not in the same group, ge the system manager to E    assign them all the same rights identifier and use ACLs to provide G    the above access.  Avoid the temptation to set the above protections     at the world level.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:58:39 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> X Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful  Performance1 Message-ID: <3o8Wa.1179$TC4.662@news.cpqcorp.net>   6 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> wrote in message# news:3F288278.3EAC381F@istop.com...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > > Is the enterprise business in a down cycle?  Yes.  But after we finish our B > > transition to a single platform architecture, there won't be a
 profitability  > > problem. > ( > That is what, 10 years down the road ?   Hardly.    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:11:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance 3 Message-ID: <g+XmLeXImJ8z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <2_VVa.38887$rsJ.29103@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > 5 > "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 4 > news:itlfivk2gi2ema0k49d1127fb1rrrra25i@4ax.com... >>D >> It has taken them quite a long time to develop,  It's quite a bit > moreB >> complex than Alpha design, so maybe that's reasonable slippage, > maybe not.A >> If they're committed to it, though, then I should still make a  > viable0 >> product.  It's still too early to tell, imho. >  > G > And what exactly is the backup plan for VMS users should IA64 hit the " > fan? Windows 2003 Server on AMD?  C    Since VMS on IA64 has started limitted ship, and VAXen and Alpha A    hardware seem to run forever, the backup plan is "just keep on     running".  F    If HP is wrong about IA64 and ends up having to dig themselves out C    from under it, the systems we have now won't even need to reboot H    by the time the owner of VMS has it running on another new processor.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:41:25 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>W Subject: Re: D.H. Brown: EV7 AlphaServers Deliver Enhanced RAS and Powerful Performance 8 Message-ID: <ldaiiv4mrstndokm6smhjlpkurd7j7klj7@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:55:11 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   > 4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:itlfivk2gi2ema0k49d1127fb1rrrra25i@4ax.com...  >>D >> It has taken them quite a long time to develop,  It's quite a bit >more B >> complex than Alpha design, so maybe that's reasonable slippage, >maybe not. A >> If they're committed to it, though, then I should still make a  >viable 0 >> product.  It's still too early to tell, imho. >  > F >And what exactly is the backup plan for VMS users should IA64 hit the! >fan? Windows 2003 Server on AMD?  >   I Hmm... was there a backup plan for Alpha?  Why would you assume that we'd  need a backup plan?   H I gotta believe that the folks running HP have enough information not toK make such a drastic mistake as that, since virtually ALL of their platforms  rely on it being successful.  C I see no indication that IA64 won't make it to real systems, and be A competitive (if not a leader) in price/performance for enterprise H server-class systems.  Will this translate into workstation-type volume?? I'm not sure it needs to, and frankly that doesn't interest me.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:39:55 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...2 Message-ID: <5YGdnQqOictFWrWiXTWJiQ@metrocast.net>  0 "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:Xh1Wa.46722$7O4.1106053@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...  > 6 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> wrote in message$ > news:3F288452.1543611@istop.com...- > > re: "world record" done on some IA64 box.  > > I > > Can any objective person comment on whether Alpha EV7 could have beat  thatK > > record had Digital still been a competitor of HP with a vested interest  in? > > marketing and making Alpha compete head on against intel ?%   K Probably not without getting fired from HP, since while HP reportedly *has* G been doing some in-house TPC-C testing on Marvel systems with excellent @ results they've announced that the results won't be made public.  J One could look at at least somewhat-related benchmarks such as the 'OracleG Applications Standard Benchmark' and see that, while an 8-processor EV7 K systems only out-performs a 4-processor 1.5 GHz Itanic system by about 20%, L the lousy scaling of SuperDome on TPC-C from 4 to 64 processors would almostH certainly allow a 64-processor Marvel system (which I don't think is yetL available) to beat the pants off the new 64-processor SuperDome result - andC even a 32-processor Marvel system should have a shot at beating it. K Similarly, the fact that the 32-processor Marvel SAP SD result is over 5.23 ? times that of the 4-processor 1.5 GHz Itanic also suggests that J processor-for-processor Marvel would soundly trounce SuperDome (and shouldH at least come close to equaling its performance with only *half* as manyC processors if SuperDome scales as poorly here as it does in TPC-C).   J Of course, if Compaq hadn't dragged its feet from the time Curly took overL we'd most likely be comparing EV8's performance (in a 130 nm process, at 1.8G GHz) to Itanic's right now rather than EV7's (at 1.15 GHz in its 180 nm @ process).  If, that is, Itanic was still even afloat under those circumstances.   > > L > > I don't trust HP to push EV7 to its limit since they woudln't want it to > beat > > Intel's chip.   I Just because they apparently arbitrarily delayed EV7's introduction so as L not to overshadow McKinley's, and seemed uninterested in pushing EV7's clockG rate up to EV6's (let alone higher), and sacrificed EV8 to Satan Clara?  Naw...   > D > Well I'm not sure if this is comparing apples to apples....  But a* > comparison of newer AIX and VMS systems. > H > Our peformance lab benchmarks IBM AIX and VMS systems with a simulatedK > workload of our Application sending requests to the Oracle database.  The L > test system is supposed to run for one hour under this simulated workload.E > This last spring, they did some testing of the IBM Reggata, and the  > Compaq/HP Marvel.  > L > The 16 CPU IBM Reggata system finished about 3/4 of the entire workload in > one hour. L > The Marvel (GS1280) with less CPU's (I do not remember the number) was notH > rated at this time because it FINISHED the entire workload in about 45H > minutes!  (Again I do not remember the exact timings, it may have been less) F > It was determined that we would need another Marvel to feed the test MarvelL > enough simulated workload in order to have enough work to keep running the& > test for the required one hour time.  L If that was a 1.3 GHz Regatta system it's only fair to note that they're nowF running at 1.7 GHz (with some other faster system components as well).J Still, it sounds as if at least on your application Marvel should handlilyJ out-perform the newest Regattas on a per-processor basis - and since thoseG new 32-processor Regattas are less than 8% slower on TPC-C than the new K 'world record' 64-processor SuperDomes, if your application resembles TPC-C L then there's a good chance that a 32-processor Marvel system would beat that new SuperDome 'world record'.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:58:27 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...9 Message-ID: <bgarjc$mr8a7$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   ' On 31-Jul-2003 06:54, Mike Naime wrote:    > [...]  > L > The 16 CPU IBM Reggata system finished about 3/4 of the entire workload in > one hour. L > The Marvel (GS1280) with less CPU's (I do not remember the number) was notH > rated at this time because it FINISHED the entire workload in about 45N > minutes!  (Again I do not remember the exact timings, it may have been less)M > It was determined that we would need another Marvel to feed the test Marvel L > enough simulated workload in order to have enough work to keep running the& > test for the required one hour time. > 3 > Something else we harass our IBM guys about!  :-)   E A really great "argument" -- not rating a system because of premature  finishing of the workload ...    Michael    --    @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:54:59 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...1 Message-ID: <Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net>   @ Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:29:54 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...F Message-ID: <mR8Wa.9077$4UE.2570@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net... B > Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism.     I'm not criticizing you Fred.   A You feel free to take shots at Sun and McNeely from technical and  business perspective.   E I am criticizing your employer's policies and decision making, and in B my humble opinion, deservedly so. And while not speaking for JF orE Bill or anyone else, I'm sure that most, if not all of their critique & is directed at HP corporately as well.  F Put the shoe on the other foot for a moment...HP pays you and for thatF you do what they say you should do. Nothing wrong with that. As to theD rest of us who PAY HP for products and services, well let's just sayA we have a slightly different perspective on things. And since the F customer is always right, it would be in HP's best interests to listen3 to what their customers say....even the vocal ones.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:09:08 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...1 Message-ID: <8q9Wa.1180$uH4.208@news.cpqcorp.net>   J Frankly, I don't know who you are, since you use a pen name.  I don't takeF the criticism personally, and perhaps you missed my point...  there isI perhaps no news of any sort that a select and vocal few in this newsgroup K will not immediately find fault with.  And you all predictably chimed in 1,  2, 3.   J I look at announcements like this as:  Hey, good news - bragging rights atL minumum.  You can choose to find fault with everything (the glass isn't evenK half full, it's broken) or you can root for VMS to become a success story - / and good news for Itanium is good news for VMS.   J There are a small handful of people in here, who are pretty much intent onI taking some sort of revenge on HP for real and percieved issues they have J with how DEC and Compaq conducted their business.  The "throw out the babyK with the bath water" syndrome.  Of the handful, at least one is annonymous, K and one doesn't do anything with VMS or VMS customers (our caped crusader).   I Criticism of corporate policies is certainly an interesting topic, but it K appears to be the only note in some people's songbooks.  News: Itanium sets 7 record.  Reply: Yeah, but Alpha might have been better.     . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:mR8Wa.9077$4UE.2570@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- > news:Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net... D > > Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism. >  >  > I'm not criticizing you Fred.  > C > You feel free to take shots at Sun and McNeely from technical and  > business perspective.  > G > I am criticizing your employer's policies and decision making, and in D > my humble opinion, deservedly so. And while not speaking for JF orG > Bill or anyone else, I'm sure that most, if not all of their critique ( > is directed at HP corporately as well. > H > Put the shoe on the other foot for a moment...HP pays you and for thatH > you do what they say you should do. Nothing wrong with that. As to theF > rest of us who PAY HP for products and services, well let's just sayC > we have a slightly different perspective on things. And since the H > customer is always right, it would be in HP's best interests to listen5 > to what their customers say....even the vocal ones.  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:42:16 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...2 Message-ID: <JqecnVBm8Nhr27SiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net... B > Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism.  L Typical - and fully warranted.  As long as people like you and Keith take itJ upon yourselves to introduce marketeering into c.o.v., people like us willC take steps to bring back a modicum of reality to your more fanciful F excursions.  If you don't like that, I suggest that you return to yourK engineering day jobs and leave the spinning to those who are paid to do it.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:59:14 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...1 Message-ID: <CVbWa.1200$pQ4.516@news.cpqcorp.net>   L What exactly are you paid to do Bill?  General Gadfly?  Your expertise seemsD to be in the area of antique file systems and critiques of UNIX file systems.  E Frankly, my post was just something that came through my mail account K yesterday, and I thought VMS users might be interested in hearing about the J performance of hardware that VMS will be running on in the not-too-distantF future.  You can call that "marketing" if you like... but oh... wait -0 that's right you want marketing, but not really.  I Your claptrap is a never ending stream on invective, aimed at little more @ than creating FUD among whatever few readers give you a shred ofJ credibility.  If you shout loudly enough and call people enough names - itJ must be true.  You gladly trot out an odd assortment of "factoids" each ofH which may have some shred of partial truth, and try to create a tapestryJ from them that supports your position.  A position you've taken, as far asJ anyone can tell, just because you're in general PO'ed, and somehow believeI that people out there need you to protect them.  You have no stake in the J whatever the future is for VMS - at least Andrew's motives are clear.  I'm0 sure there is some clinical description for you.      5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:JqecnVBm8Nhr27SiXTWJhw@metrocast.net... > F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- > news:Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net... D > > Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism. > K > Typical - and fully warranted.  As long as people like you and Keith take  itL > upon yourselves to introduce marketeering into c.o.v., people like us willE > take steps to bring back a modicum of reality to your more fanciful H > excursions.  If you don't like that, I suggest that you return to yourI > engineering day jobs and leave the spinning to those who are paid to do  it.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:15:46 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...3 Message-ID: <M88bC9W1s+$t@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <JqecnVBm8Nhr27SiXTWJhw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > F > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- > news:Dk8Wa.1177$cE4.319@news.cpqcorp.net... C >> Typical.  The big three JS, JFM, BT all weigh in with criticism.  > N > Typical - and fully warranted.  As long as people like you and Keith take itL > upon yourselves to introduce marketeering into c.o.v., people like us willE > take steps to bring back a modicum of reality to your more fanciful H > excursions.  If you don't like that, I suggest that you return to yourM > engineering day jobs and leave the spinning to those who are paid to do it.  >   D 	It is their version of reality versus the JBJ troika.  One must do 6 	something to counter the affable Bill Todd's spinola:  b http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=hNKcnXrKKfx0YXKjXTWJig%40metrocast.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms $ Subject: Re: Sun to be the next DEC!% Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:47:16 -0400   J Sun should do fine as soon as the market starts to recover:  its customersL seem happy to pay a reasonable price for the hardware, software, and supportL that Sun gives them, and at least many will continue to prefer the perceived: solidity of Solaris to the more adventurous move to Linux.   ---   G 	The server market has recovered.  Sun isn't doing fine, and Sun won't  B 	be doing fine.   Sun is fast approaching Apple Computer status - B 	quiant but irrelevant!  Point here is with Usenet opinion - it is 	often just that - opinion.     B 	Only when you look back (even if 5 weeks).  It is easy to refute H 	something that in hindisght is laughable.  Likewise, with Itanium that D 	day will arrive too.  Look back and show such opinion was warrantedD 	(i.e. Itanium's eventual success).  After all, there are some very A 	fine future  processes coming and Itanium 2 is doing quite well  A 	performance-wise and price-wise with upcoming server shipments,  F 	application availability increasing, large number of OEMs delivering  	boxes, etc. etc.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:31:14 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Itanium performance news...2 Message-ID: <wXadnZIs6PXtz7SiXTWJhg@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:CVbWa.1200$pQ4.516@news.cpqcorp.net... H > What exactly are you paid to do Bill?  General Gadfly?  Your expertise seems F > to be in the area of antique file systems and critiques of UNIX file
 > systems.  H I'm paid to create new distributed file system architectures, Fred.  AndL when I can't find anyone interested in developing an interesting one, I work
 on my own.   > G > Frankly, my post was just something that came through my mail account I > yesterday, and I thought VMS users might be interested in hearing about  the L > performance of hardware that VMS will be running on in the not-too-distant7 > future.  You can call that "marketing" if you like...   I To be fair, you're not as much of a pest in this regard as Keith has been J recently - but the qualitative resemblance was sufficient to lump you both	 together.     but oh... wait - 2 > that's right you want marketing, but not really.  L No, Fred:  I *do* want to see marketing - but *real*, HP-funded marketing to/ the industry, not your half-assed efforts here.   K Since you appear to have been drooling on your keyboard while composing the D balance of your post, that's about all that was worth responding to.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:32:16 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>( Subject: Java 1.4.1 installation rant...5 Message-ID: <1030731022446.1344D-100000@Ives.egh.com>   I Just installed 1.4.1 on my Alpha.  At the end, PRODUCT INSTALL tells you:   L   Consult SYS$COMMON:[JAVA$141.DOCS] for the Release Notes for this product.  D It turns out this directory contains RELEASE_NOTES.HTML.   So I madeE CSWS serve it and tried to read it using Netscape 4.73 on my DEC Unix G Alpha.  It turns out the whole thing is a fixed width table, wider than G my screen, so I have to keep scrolling left and right to read it.  Ugh! ) Can you spell "repetitive stress injury"?   > THIS IS PURE TEXT, for God's sake!  What is wrong with people?   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 07:16:27 -0700$ From: issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho)4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.= Message-ID: <d0141774.0307310616.45f87eff@posting.google.com>   E OK, there's lots of good stuff in all these replies, however if I can E draw the subject back to the original question... if you were getting E PAID to do this job and didn't want to stuff things up, what strategy  would you employ?   D And - sorry I didn't mention this originally - the two storage unitsD have shadowed volume sets, except the quorum disk of course; if that makes any difference.   i david.latimer@csf.co.uk (Dave) wrote in message news:<a797d716.0307300550.4d5990d8@posting.google.com>... G > Hopefully you'll already have MSCP serving enabled?  If not, when you C > move one node and cluster via the network, you may have a problem  > mounting the disks.  > D > The safest way will likely be to shutdown and power off the entireE > cluster, then remove one node and one storage array, restarting the D > remaining one if its required, minimising your downtime.  Once the< > first move is done and all is working, then move the other > node/storage.  > H > Problem is where to put the QD, as you will lose this at some point toH > the remaining 'running' node, either in the first move, or the second.E >  Is this a mute point, though, as when you become a network cluster B > (albeit temporarily), QD becomes ineffective as you won't have aA > direct path to it from the networked node. Also, you'll have to F > reconfigure to be NI clustered for this move strategy to work as theF > DSSI will no longer be available as a cluster interconnect while the > systems are seperated. > 	 > regards  > Dave > [ > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<bg83e5$4fa$1@lore.csc.com>...  > > JF Mezei wrote:  > > >  > > > Other question:  > > > Q > > > You you have node 1 , node 2 and DSSI disk array all connected together. If Q > > > you not only shutdown node 2, but also power it off completely, wouldn't it = > > > then be safe to unplug the DSSI connector from node 2 ?  > > > T > > > In such a setup, would node 1 and node 2 each have a terminator with the disksT > > > in the middle ? So when you disconnect node 2, you would have to make sure you: > > > apply a terminator to the disks as fast as possible. > > E > > DSSI busses are protected by fuses. The green indicators show the J > > health. These are 1.5 amp fast blow (pico) fuses. Generally both sidesB > > of the bus are powered, and you could lose one and still work. > > G > > Looking at a KFESB, I can't see the PICO fuse. A VAX such as a 4000 D > > series has a PICO fuse in the main bulkhead panel, a light greenJ > > coloured thing looking a bit like a resistor with bulging ends in leadH > > sockets. I don't know if there are fuses in other DSSI interfaces or > > devices. > > H > > Plugging in a terminator as fast as possible isn't the answer, quickF > > blow fuses go in the order of microseconds. Perhaps I'm being overI > > cautious, but I've blown enough fuses that I carry a spare set around = > > with me. DSSI busses are less forgiving than SCSI busses.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:38:01 -0400 $ From: "PEN" <paul.nuneznosp@mhp.com> Subject: Re: NT Clusters, Message-ID: <bg9aba$en7$1@hplms2.hpl.hp.com>   Hi,   F The best you could do with OVMS and PATHWORKS would be to load balanceF client sessions (using the TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Load Broker and= METRIC Server functionality).  But that's often sufficient...   
 Paul Nunez HP Services    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:50:16 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: OpenVms Backup 8 Message-ID: <g0biivsph6ku13o78bdqkbromohjp99bg5@4ax.com>  I On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:25:37 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:   b >In article <iaqfivk352jcuvgq4l6a83qosj1bac57sg@4ax.com>, jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes:K >>On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:42:45 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >>   >>K >>But we don't know how much the software solution would have cost, so it's $ >>not clear which is more expensive. >> > Q >However unless it was a Royalty product (ie included someone else's technology)  O >that wouldn't have mattered to us since we would have got it for "free" under   >DECCAMPUS. 	 >[etc...]   J Ah, not that explains quite a bit.  I understand your predicament a little* better now.... which is why I eneded with:     >>M >>I can't speak to whether the $26,500 (list price) is too much for the value  >>you'd get, though. >> >   I Obviously that does not meet your needs, and I tried not to assume that I 4 understood them, which is why I made that statement.  E A VMS-based solution would have been great, imho, and even moreso for & meeting situations such as your own.    K It appears that the technical and budgetary constraints to make that happen 8 reliably (including in a VMScluster) were tough to meet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:02:54 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates- Message-ID: <87adavrrup.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > I could always go up to the attic tonite and grab a copy or two ofD > my old computing magazines (which pre-date the IBM PC) to be sure,A > but I seem to remember the terms RAM, DRAM and Static RAM being , > common before IBM got into the Micro game.  A Perkin Elmer had RAM, and NCR had CRAM in the late 50s/early 60s. < The NCR was magnetic card, forget what the puking elmer was.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 07:11:18 -0700( From: robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey)" Subject: Quorom Disk/Node Overhead= Message-ID: <f936a854.0307310611.7f86a438@posting.google.com>e  M Does a quorom disk produce much more overhead than an individual quorum node?r  N What are the disadvantages of using a quorom disk as opposed to a quorom node?   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 09:54:41 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e& Subject: Re: Quorom Disk/Node Overhead3 Message-ID: <6Ulyj7XVWudf@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  h In article <f936a854.0307310611.7f86a438@posting.google.com>, robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey) writes:O > Does a quorom disk produce much more overhead than an individual quorum node?u > P > What are the disadvantages of using a quorom disk as opposed to a quorom node?     	Overhead?  No.f  $ 	Slower cluster transitions - maybe.  ; 	Roy Davis' VAXCluster Principles explains issue in detail.l  B 	With a Quorum Disk, you have to perform 4 writes and 4 reads (allA 	the detail is in the tome) for each remaining node - if I recallDE 	correctly - it is in Roy's book.  If your Quorum Disk is the system oF 	disk (and a VERY busy system disk when a node crashes), you would be ( 	surprised how many times you *MAY* see:   	Lost connection 	regained connection 	various messages about Quorum n   	that come about.   @ 	I came into a situation whereby there was a badly misconfigured< 	cluster.  7 or 8 nodes in the cluster WITH a system disk as 	a quorum disk.  A node @ 	would crash and it would seem to take FOREVER to transition the* 	cluster (probably 1 minute in actuality).  ? 	By removing the Quorum Disk from the cluster config and makingpE 	appropriate adjustments, a node would crash and the transition wouldT@ 	be BAM!  They thought I performed magic or something like that.   	Keith says this:d  l http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=cf15391e.0206031603.d432c9b%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  G "For more detail on what happens during cluster node failures and statelC transitions, see Roy Davis' VAXcluster Principles book or the StateOC Transitions session notes at http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/"-  
 	And this:  l http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=6ec1251e.0204050852.74168de%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain    F 	Go to groups.google.com and search for quorum disk cluster transition 	for similar refs.  ? 	Piece of advice?  If removing the Quorum Disk isn't an option .> 	(2 nodes or whatever your reasons), make a non-busy disk that0         is common to all nodes your Quorum Disk.   				Robz   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 07:42:29 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org" Subject: Re: Read MAG tape to disk3 Message-ID: <7rmkLrg36$tS@eisner.encompasserve.org>S  [ In article <3F2860DD.8E778C2D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:f > James Ross wrote:u >> rC >> I have a PL/I application that write data to a  mag tape that isk' >> mounted using the following command: + >> mount/for/den=6250/block=2050 TAPE MUB0:  >>  A >> When I extract the data out of the mag tape on disk using thisT >> command:s >> copy MUB0: []file.dat;t >> qH >> I get two extra bytes in the beginning of the file when I examine the >> hex dump.= >> The Hex dump command I perform is: dump/hex/byte file.dat;T >> /out=file.dmp;p >>  ! >> The two extra bytes are: 02 08  >> X5 >> Any Idea as to why this happens and how to fix it?i > H > This happens when the output is a sequential file with variable recordJ > length and RMS is involved in the process of writing the output records. > H > To "fix it", make sure the PL/I program opens the magtape channel as a > fixed record length file.m    This misunderstands the problem.  H The PL/I program is perfectly fine.  The on-tape data is perfectly fine.? The copy from tape to disk is perfectly fine.  The disk file ise7 a perfectly fine file with RMS variable length records.   C The problem is the user's interpretation of the output he sees whenn6 he uses DUMP [/BLOCK] to examine the output disk file.  F One "fix" to the problem would be to modify the way the data is copied back to disk for verification:  7 $ CONVERT MUB0: []file.dat /FDL=SYS$INPUT [/STATISTICS]n RECORD FORMAT FIXED	 SIZE 2050M ^Z $o  B Now you'll get an RMS file with fixed length records which will beD encoded on disk with one record right after another with no embedded4 byte counts, pad bytes or other control information.  C And if the tape has blocks that are not 2050 bytes in length you'lliI get an error message because that CONVERT defaults to /NOPAD /NOTRUNCATE.   = Another "fix" would be to DUMP MUB0: instead of DUMP file.date   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:11:07 -0500r( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)9 Subject: SFF commands for TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_SFF.EXEp1 Message-ID: <03073111110795@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>n  N I have been digging around looking for the command/parameter list for use with the SMTP SFF.  7  6 So far I have found that this works (enclosed in ====)  $ ==================================== MAIL FROM:<someone> * RCPT TO:<smtp%"9008882222@mobile.att.net"># RCPT TO:<smtp%"me.name@domain.com">n DATA SUBJECT:TESTing in progress... This is great!$ ====================================    L However, I can not find the documentation that details additional parametersD (if any), qualifiers, logicals, etc...  Anyone know this or have it?  O Also, as you may (or may not) have determined, the 9008882222@mobile.att.net isaI for SMTP mail being sent to my cell phone (text messaging).  The AT&T TAPfO service is being shutdown on 31-Aug and I need to move those users from RAMPAGE M to SMTP mail.  I would like to  SPOOF the FROM with a text string rather thanr& an return address.  Any ideas on this?         J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*nn VMS Systems Administratore* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:45:51 +0000 (UTC).7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney).; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?),( Message-ID: <bgb31v$4f5$1@pcls4.std.com>  + JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> writes:    >Carlc Internet Services wrote:iM >> I wish the OpenVMS systems could do this as well, instead, I just use them-A >> for relaying of known IP addresses, denying all other relays. r  " >TCPIP Services 5.3 supports RBLs.D >And I would suspect that the more complete Multinet/PMDF would too.  B TCPIP 5.3 mail can block a few things now, such as rejecting from F unresolvable domains, bad domains, IP address ranges (only 16 of them, though)e  1 Check out TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON:SMTP_CONFIG.TEMPLATE. E (Given the messages, someone's got a bit of a twisted sense of humor)r -- i -Mikeu   ------------------------------   Date: 31 JUL 2003 15:18:00 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher); Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)-6 Message-ID: <31JUL03.15180077@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  B In a previous article, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:  I ->What or where on earth is there a statement that TCP/IP is a guaranteedg! ->time critical network protocol?s -> oG ->If you have "last minute urgent" anything, don't use TCP/IP, it's nots ->for that.S  H I try to make sure people are aware of this too. However, for those thatF have speech, hearing or other impairments, e-mail can be the only formB of communication with health care providers. Deliberately delaying3 e-mail isn't going very popular in these scenarios.a   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisont8 --                 karcher.nomorespxm@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:03:05 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Sun and SCO3 Message-ID: <DiHkSRfwomqT@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <bg8okf$7vd$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > G > I say perspective because no one as suggested yet that SCO definitely ! > don't have a case against IBM. e  A    SCO can't definitely not have a case against IBM until a court-E    bothers to say so.  But we can all read the trade rags and see howlE    thousands of companies are not concerned with SCO's little tantrumrD    and we can suspect that means thousands of lawyers have expressed5    their professional opinion that there is not case.2   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:04:19 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: Sun and SCO3 Message-ID: <$XZHIP1Pe+B6@eisner.encompasserve.org>e   In article <bg8opr$7vd$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> tI >>    Just because Torvalds wrote a kernel for an 80386, doesn't make himtJ >>    a great judge of technology.  He actually dislikes VMS so he doesn't >>    get any credit here. >>     > ? > I havn't detected any like for or much understanding of Linuxw0 > on the part of Fred, doesn't stop him posting.  C    Well, I'll take Linux over Solaris, but I still won't give Linus     undue credit.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:15:16 -0400b) From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com>t< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP) Message-ID: <3F28B3DB.CE1AED35@istop.com>r   Mike Naime wrote:sN > US government has a TON of VMS and SUN equipment.  I remember stories on theM > Government/DOD side that when COMPAQ bought Digital, the US Government told > > them they WOULD support VMS for at least the next 20 years.   E Supporting existing systems for 20 years only means that you maintainDN sufficient spare parts. Supporting existing systems doesn't mean that you seekE new customers, seek new applications, seek the best possible hardware H configurations etc. Supporting existing systems doesn't even mean new OS) versions.  And it doesn't mean marketing."  L So yes, if you are a secret DOD department with such a 20 year contract, youM can rest assured that there will be someone at the other end of the phoen whor2 will come within X hours to replace a failed part.  H But if you are a commercial customer seeking a scalable, serious, secureL platform, it is likely that you won't even consider VMS because its owned isL taking 0 effort to make it visible in the marketplace and this yileds to theI logical conclusion that the vendor has no serious intentions to grow that-F platform, and a platform without growth doesn't attract applications.   K What do you do when you decide to invest big time in a technology and a fewoM months after they delivered the stuff, you hear that the vendor who just sold L you tens of millions,s worth of equipment has declared both the hardware andN OS you have chosen to be dead ? Talk to the qubec government, because that isM exactly what happened to them. They had decided to standardize on tru64/alpha K for all their serious computing just a few months before Curly killed Alpha 7 and a few more months before he and carly killed Tru64.H  5 > You will never be able to kill this type of rumour.v  N The rumour you mentioned was not a rumour. It was a stated strategy of Digital# under Palmer (replace VMS with NT).y  N How do you kill a rumour ? When you buy the company, the first thing you do isJ to say that under teh new owner, things will change and the new owner willN market and grow the product because the new onwer understand its potential andG understands that this product gives it a big edge over its competitors. M Instead, Compaq and especially Intel went to "we'll honour the plan of record K set by the previous onwer".  This translates to: we'll do nothing to change 5 the environment which causes those rumours to thrive.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:45:08 -0400y* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP2 Message-ID: <9MSdnQmGP5qfJrWiXTWJjw@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:XEahFenG1sOo@eisner.encompasserve.org...e4 > In article <3F28812F.9C15293F@istop.com>, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> writes: > > David Froble wrote: J > >> If you're JF, the first time the boat rocks a bit, you're launching a lifeboat? > >> and sitting in the middle of the ocean with just a paddle.t > >MK > > Now, if, before announcing officially that the ship was sinking, Compaq  hadhK > > waited for the IA64 rescue ship to be at least VISIBLE, then perhaps iti$ > > wouldn't have been so worrysome. > >)I > > And if HP had killed once and for all rumours of the VMS ship sinkingb and5H > > taken steps to not only refloat the boat, but give it more speed and moreJ > > flashing lights, then customers wouldn't be wondering about the future of VMS.  > >h >mA > So worrisome, that HP is making money hand over fist quarter to @ > quarter.  Number #1 in several categories (servers, printers).  ? Funny how little that relates to what was being discussed, Rob.GH Specifically, to VMS's rather dubious future.  But maybe you've become aD Windows weenie as well as an Intel weenie and don't care about that.   >e  > And yet . . .  doom and gloom. >sD > Here's doom and gloom. . . Sun hasn't made money in quite a while.> > Their server sales are down 19%.  Is that a surprise, shock?  G Does *that* have anything to do with VMS, either?  Trying to change thepG subject to something you'd rather talk about won't make the problems go  away.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:07:16 -0400h* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP2 Message-ID: <6QidnRmbeI6sXbWiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>  0 "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message5 news:L_1Wa.47140$7O4.1108232@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...n   ...    > How do you kill a rumour?i  G By letting the facts speak for themselves.  And in the case of VMS theyb speak all too clearly.  2   I was told by several friends back in 90' that IJ > should not be getting into VMS because it was dead/dying.  Why?  Because it6 > was older, and would be replaced by something newer.  K And guess what?  It *is* being so replaced.  You don't think that the largeeJ fraction of VMS system revenue that's disappeared since the Alphacide just< evaporated, do you?  It in large part went *somewhere else*.     Not that it wasmJ > broken, or needed fixing, but because it wasn't the latest bleeding edge OS.d  F A symptom of neglect by its owner that spoke volumes about its future.  5 > You will never be able to kill this type of rumour.e  G Certainly not if you already have a reputation for lying repeatedly and-H insistently and when you *do* nothing credible to prove the rumor false.     Especially when it's aI > marketing strategy perpetuated by the competition.  Who do you believe?@  J How about Carly and - earlier - Curly when they said, at every opportunityF save possibly when speaking only to the VMS faithful, that proprietaryK technology was passe and the future lay with 'industry-standard' platforms?mC And Winkler when he predicted that Linux would 'eviscerate the softbD underbelly of Unix' (just in case you thought that HP-UX might be an exception to that philosophy)?  J If there's a system much *less* 'industry-standard' than VMS with anythingL like its market penetration (at least what it had prior to the Alphacide) it doesn't spring readily to mind.     andH > what could HP really say at this point to really dispell in everyone's mindse > this particular rumour?h  C Nothing.  They'd have to *do* something to dispel it:  start really H marketing VMS and plowing significant funds and effort into the kinds ofG long-term development that would prove their intentions (not just tokenn2 efforts that they could expect instant return on).  0   I have seen a roadmap of Alphaserver CPU's out > until about 2009.o  L So have I.  It included EV8, EV9, and EV10.  Funny how suddenly that changedD (at least from the external perspective:  it seems clear that thingsL actually began changing a couple of years before Curly bothered to tell us).   >  That is good enough for me.  I Far be it from me to try to disillusion you.  Just don't expect others tom give your opinion much respect.    ...:  -   I had one DS20 cluster that was up for 330+9H > days before we re-booted it for an OS upgrade.  That particular client willG > probably run on that hardware until it die's.  I may have to add moreoH > storage as the database grows, but they are not growing in Average CPU usageaE > to where I think I would have to upgrade the hardware that they areu runningi > on.c  I Ah - so perhaps you're one of those customers who doesn't *need* any more G than what VMS provides today (and isn't bothered by the likelihood thatiK talent, support, and replacement parts may become somewhat difficult and/orbJ expensive to come by as it fades away).  That's just fine for you, but not+ for people who need a system with a future.,   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jul 2003 16:02:15 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP9 Message-ID: <bgbei7$mrg98$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>o  ) In article <3F28B3DB.CE1AED35@istop.com>,n, 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.nospam@istop.com> writes: > Mike Naime wrote:cO >> US government has a TON of VMS and SUN equipment.  I remember stories on thenN >> Government/DOD side that when COMPAQ bought Digital, the US Government told? >> them they WOULD support VMS for at least the next 20 years. c > G > Supporting existing systems for 20 years only means that you maintainrP > sufficient spare parts. Supporting existing systems doesn't mean that you seekG > new customers, seek new applications, seek the best possible hardware J > configurations etc. Supporting existing systems doesn't even mean new OS+ > versions.  And it doesn't mean marketing.t  B And a promise to support the government owned machnes for 20 years- does not translate to supporting anyone else.n   > K > So yes, if you are a secret DOD department with such a 20 year contract, i  A There is no such thing as a 20 year DOD contract.  Money can onlyf? be committed for a given fiscal year.  Contracts run for 1 year B with options (sometimes forcible) to renew.  The government alwaysC retains the right to not renew at the beginning of the fiscal year. = Been there, done that, on both sides of the contracting game.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 09:23:47 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)w< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0307310823.6fdc8b72@posting.google.com>a  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<6QidnRmbeI6sXbWiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>...E > And Winkler when he predicted that Linux would 'eviscerate the softy > underbelly of Unix'p  ? The prediction was about Windows, not Linux. (Winkler came from = Compaq, the PC Company.)  I'd have a lot more respect for thee% predicion if it HAD been about Linux.i   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:43:36 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) < Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP3 Message-ID: <Yv6BEcOODsBd@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  q In article <cf15391e.0307310823.6fdc8b72@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:of > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<6QidnRmbeI6sXbWiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>...F >> And Winkler when he predicted that Linux would 'eviscerate the soft >> underbelly of Unix' > A > The prediction was about Windows, not Linux. (Winkler came fromS? > Compaq, the PC Company.)  I'd have a lot more respect for theh' > predicion if it HAD been about Linux.e    J http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=35060  N "You're going to see Linux and Windows absolutely eviscerate the midrange Unix market," said Capellas.   > 	Capellas was/is the source and we beat this about quite a bit 	1.2 years ago.   ^ http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=eviscerate%20unix&safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&lr=&hl=en  ) 	And of course he is right.  Look at Sun!    				Robe   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:50:59 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t< Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP3 Message-ID: <qFIRuZQ+Ogk1@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  q In article <cf15391e.0307310823.6fdc8b72@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:sf > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<6QidnRmbeI6sXbWiXTWJjQ@metrocast.net>...F >> And Winkler when he predicted that Linux would 'eviscerate the soft >> underbelly of Unix' > A > The prediction was about Windows, not Linux. (Winkler came from ? > Compaq, the PC Company.)  I'd have a lot more respect for thei' > predicion if it HAD been about Linux.t  6 	Ah - skip that other post.  Keith is right.  Capellas; 	came along and later added to it.  The original quote thato5 	we further beat about was highlighted by Alan Greig:a    h http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b61s1u89np59h4jedrcga0m1g08mi4nej8%404ax.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain   	t> What does appear in the official transcript is this section byD Winkler. I am convinced this has been edited and is the bit Capellas	 refers to-8 	And there remain dramatic growth opportunities for thisA business overall.  It's deeper penetration of the enterprise datapA center continuing to climb up into the UNIX world.  Windows 2000,oE Windows 2000 Data Center will eviscerate the soft underbelly of UNIX,<? and every market research firm confirms that, and certainly ourtF activities do <my recollection is at this point or close to it he wentD off into a little chat adding that their customers wanted Windows to> win for simplicity reasons as well. Can't find that - Alan>.      5 	And much discussion about the editing, etc.  ensued.o   				Robm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:42:45 +0200m+ From: Rainer Giese <spamto@wastebasket.net>x  Subject: TCPIP 5.3 FTP behaviour8 Message-ID: <7jghivg85ftnqfupj0kkoinb987oqeavic@4ax.com>  F I ( obvious thoughtless ) updated from TCPIP 5.1 to 5.3 and ran into aB trap. The FTP client seems radically changed and shows a differentA behaviour. Now I'm busy to find all jobs and scripts using it andg, rewrite them. Who laid this egg in my nest ?  3 Particularly I have a problem with the following :    D 1. The /INPUT-qualifier does not take full qualified filenames, onlyB files in the actual directory, also no logicals. Otherwise I get a "bad filename syntax".  A 2. Sometimes I define a logical for a file prior sending it. So InD could avoid writing temporary files for the FTP-commands. But within0 FTP translating logicals seems no longer happen.  F 3. Calling FTP changes the PARSE_STYLE of my whole process to EXTENDEDF (of course without telling me that). I don't need it, and I don't want it.   E Nothing of this seems to be documented anywhere. Okay, I assume, thatiF we have a complete new port from a UNIX version, but why so half ready? ? In the release notes they boast with the possibility of usingk@ UNIX-style filenames. Fine. But while losing VMS-style names :-)   Rainer Giese   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:17:59 GMTn- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>s$ Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.3 FTP behaviour1 Message-ID: <b95Wa.1167$9v4.157@news.cpqcorp.net>n  8 "Rainer Giese" <spamto@wastebasket.net> wrote in message2 news:7jghivg85ftnqfupj0kkoinb987oqeavic@4ax.com...H > I ( obvious thoughtless ) updated from TCPIP 5.1 to 5.3 and ran into a > trap   Hello-  : There is an Eco 2 for Tcpip 5.3 which fixes some problems.   Do you have it ?   Regardsc   Grard   ------------------------------  , Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:42:17 +0200 (CEST). From: starwars <nobody@tatooine.homelinux.net>5 Subject: Re: The solution is... Rhonda Lea does Mezei.E Message-ID: <9ad9493f23aeebab0bfd310f22b16d26@tatooine.homelinux.net>r  7 Rhonda Lea Kirk <rhondaleakirk@worldnet.att.net> wrote:a  $ >Mezei and ran him right off usenet.  H Okay, I've seen you spreading this misinformation all over the place andH ignored it the way I ignore most of the verbal diarrhea from the clan ofK crazy lunatics that includes you, Erskine, Mezei, et al.  But this time I'mnK going to correct you.  Nobody ran Mezei off usenet.  Nobody could, Mezei isgK a retrovirus that nobody will ever be able to get rid of.  He is still verywE much on usenet, he's just concentrating his trolling on other groups," mostly comp.os.vms.e  ; >The problem for you (collectively) is that Alan won't give 9 >up the way JF did, so you're not going to win this time.n  I First, as I said, JF didn't give up.  He couldn't if his life depended onsK it.  He was born to troll, he can't stop himself, he's still going strongera
 than ever.  E Second, I don't want Alan to give up either.  I'm having too much funtK whipping his sorry ass, and he's obviously enjoying it as you can see, sickp fuck that he is.  H And I'll be here a loooong time, ever vigilant, ready to intervene everyK time Alan acts up.  Don't thank me, honey.  It ain't work, it's a pleasure.m :)   >Me, I don't care.  G Uh huh.  You keep saying that, but you keep coming back and responding.4= Sorry, sweetie, but something don't gel (besides your brain).A  / >In just a couple of weeks, I'm out of here, so 2 >even if you keep fucking with me, I won't see it.   Where you going?  ; >It's not making much sense, but in the end, you don't makea; >much sense either, except to the extent you're the sickest 3 >SOB I've ever run across in all my time on usenet.   = Does that mean you won't be having phone sex with me anymore?r  E Well, don't worry, you can always call Mezei.  He's always UP for it.s! Here's his number: (514) 695-8259r  K Oh, what the hell, here's the rest of his address.  Go ahead, surprise him, J it'll make his day.  Wear something real sexy when you show up.  Make sure# your engorged nipples show through:s   Jean-Francois Mezein 86 Harwood Gate: Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W3A3i8 (it's a suburb of Montreal, just west of Dorval airport)   Alan the Coward   I So Alan, since you like to challenge people to come to Melbourne and findt you, where's your address???  J Just posting empty threats?  You're very silent on this.  You're extremely> vocal on everything else.  What happened, cat got your tongue?  , Post your address and phone number.  COWARD!  J In article <3ec30296$0$16388$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> on May 15,2003 you said to Paul Maxson:  I "Want my address, fuckwit?  Look me up in the phone books - hint - I lived# in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia."e  G But then in article <3f208414$0$11112$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> ono July 25, 2003 you wrote:  J "Note how this coward hasn't found my real address.  He assumes Melbourne,B but won't get any further which is why this coward is making these( statements. I am not in any phone book."  H So you are taunting and challenging people to come and find you claiming> you are in the phone book all along knowing that you're not???  A OOOPS!  Guess what, Alan, that makes you <drum roll please> . . .y  $                          A COWARD!!!  F Yep, you're acting all tough and macho meanwhile you're hiding in your0 little dark room hoping they can never find you.  # Hypocrite!  Kook!  Psycho!  Coward!)  0 About Alan Erskine <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>  J Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and pedophileJ who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theK sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide range K of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing theeK participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authorities = in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks andaI stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have, 9 notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.   H Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentJ violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking legal action against him.w  G Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasingeF Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusF Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apolo 1 training3 exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.   E Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaigns J against other well-known members of the space community, including Richard? Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.n  D Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heJ usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingD end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auB immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,J Australia.  This psycho is very, VERY dangerous.  Do not attempt to reasonD with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to+ reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:10 -0400u8 From: "Rhonda Lea Kirk" <rhondaleakirk@worldnet.att.net>5 Subject: Re: The solution is... Rhonda Lea does Mezeic9 Message-ID: <bgbefh$mv2ve$1@ID-181658.news.uni-berlin.de>l   starwars wrote:g  9 > Uh huh.  You keep saying that, but you keep coming backe9 > and responding. Sorry, sweetie, but something don't gelN > (besides your brain).- >-1 >> In just a couple of weeks, I'm out of here, so:4 >> even if you keep fucking with me, I won't see it. >c > Where you going?   Away from you? ;)i  : Okay, I'll be serious. I spent three happy years away from< usenet. Why did I come back? Well, you do know the story, so; I won't repeat it here. But in spite of your little barb upj8 above, my brain gels just fine, and I see the problem. I< don't want to be a part of it. I've got better things to do.< At the moment, I've some loose ends to tie up, some mistakes7 to fix, but on August 16, I'm gone. Turn out the light,> babe. I won't be back.  ; Actually, I guess my destination puts me closer to you, but  it won't matter.  8 >> It's not making much sense, but in the end, you don't6 >> make much sense either, except to the extent you're9 >> the sickest SOB I've ever run across in all my time onr
 >> usenet.  6 > Does that mean you won't be having phone sex with me
 > anymore?  ; Such a clever son-of-a-bitch you are. No. I won't be having. phone sex with you.   3 Take care of yourself, boy toy. You may be the moste; clear-cut sociopath I've ever run across, but you do have a. certain charm.   rl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:45:41 GMTsA From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>o3 Subject: Re: Third party volume shadowing products?n9 Message-ID: <VG4Wa.48$bS2.913627@news-text.cableinet.net>-  A > The downside to DFS is that the transfer speed is about 1/3 theoF > speed of a regular DECNET copy on a dedicated decnet network (100MBS FastFD)aI > I.E.  If I am trying to move a 1GIG file from system A to system B, the: copyD > using DFS will take 3 times as long as the copy just using DECNET.  F DECdfs over DECnet Phase V with OSI transport as the default transport between the nodes?  I I found DECdfs over DECnet Phase IV to be fine - probably a little fasterc than using COPY.J Similarly with DECdfs over DECnet Phase V using NSP transport - marginallyH faster again, especially in a dual-rail ethernet configuration with load balancing (path splitting).CH However, DECdfs over DECnet Phase V (specifically DECnet-Plus V7.2-1 andC V7.3) with OSI transport ran at about a third to a quarter of that.o  G Never did get to the bottom of it, but arranging the address towers andlI transport precedence to use NSP proved successful. You could even disablel@ OSI transport if you don't need it to talk to anything specific.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:22:47 GMTN3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace)35 Subject: Re: VAT for non-EU suppliers to EU customersc0 Message-ID: <3f293435.177220031@news.eircom.net>  , On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:14:07 -0400, JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  N >Many USA mail order companies have setup canadians GST numbers. Why ? BecauseL >it saves us, the customers much hassles and money. When the package crossesK >the border with the "GST prepaid" sticker, it bypasses the highway robbery0: >firms (customs brokers) and it gets delivered right away.  C Okay, I can see the point in doing that if there's a benefit to thea	 customer.l   --   "Sore wa himitsu desu."e To reply by email, removeu the small snack from address.m! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceo   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 05:56:56 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Web Apps for VMSw< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0307310456.d9b2ffb@posting.google.com>   Kevin Monceaux <OwnedByDogs@grandecom.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.50.0307302107470.19634-100000@Linux.monceaux.com>...iL > I'm a little behind on reading my Info-VAX mail.  Oddly enough today I wasL > thinking about installing a web server on my VAX and then came across thisJ > thread.  I have Apache/PHP/MySQL running on a couple of Linux boxes.  ItJ > would be nice to have Apache available for the VAX architecture.  One ofI > these days I really should locate a previously loved Alpha so I can trytI > out VMS for the Alpha paltform.  Of the two web servers available for agL > VAX what are the differences and which would be a good one as a first try? >  > 	 > Thanks,h >  > Kevins  : Kevin, if you want the best ... both for alpha and vax ...  3 http://www.sss.co.nz/software/purveyor/purveyor.htm.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:27:55 GMTe- From: "labadie" <tonari_no_tottoro@127.0.0.1>t Subject: Re: Web Apps for VMSi2 Message-ID: <%zaWa.1190$uK4.1142@news.cpqcorp.net>  - "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote  >e; >Kevin, if you want the best ... both for alpha and vax ...d >i5 > http://www.sss.co.nz/software/purveyor/purveyor.htm4  K based on a benchmark widely available ? on your feeling ? on your knowledgeo of Osu And Csws And Wasd ?> on tests on the same platform ? Where can I read the results ?  L In the Wasd mailing list (you should subscribe) , I could read recently thatB Wasd 8.3 on the same Alpha 4100 was much faster than the 2 others.   RegardsD   Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:51:43 -04000* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: Yamahill? Prescott? Wot's it all mean?i2 Message-ID: <Y7icnbZlTKwBV7WiXTWJgA@metrocast.net>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message3 news:bX%Va.6260$Cx4.759203@news20.bellglobal.com...    ...p  H > Just to add a little clarification, Yamhill is supposed to be a 64 bitK > extension to the x86 RISC family (which would compete directly with AMD's D > Opteron) while Itanium is the first member of Intel's EPIC family.  I Which at the moment is struggling to compete successfully *anywhere* - at & least in terms of customer acceptance.  F If Itanic ever does become more popular, it will compete directly withG Opteron (and Xeon, and, if it appears, Yamhill) in the low end and witheE POWER4+ in the high end (and with SPARC across the board, though withhD SPARC - as usual - at a major disadvantage in terms of raw processorD performance).  Unless Sanmina - or IBM - fields large-system OpteronF chipsets, in which case Opteron will compete across the board as well.    They really > are apples and oranges.d  D Both, however, are comparably nourishing:  to a significant degree -F especially in the 'commodity' Windows and Linux markets where the vastI majority of systems won't exceed the 8 processors which Opteron currentlyhK supports - 64 bits is 64 bits (except that Opteron executes 32-bit softwareU speedily as well...).t   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:42:26 GMTa- From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> / Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/PenniesI& Message-ID: <3F28E475.3B3A2044@hp.com>   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > h > > In article <bg6c0q$jrogm$2@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: > >p% > >>Plural - Pence, Singular - Penny.  > > D > >    We must have been de-anglicized somewhere.  Plural - pennies. > 3 > I'd say it's slightly more complicated in the UK./ > : > The "pence" usage is (was?) usually for a monetary value > e.g. fourpence, sixpence.s > 4 > I think that it would have been common to say e.g.: > "there are four pennies on the table" (i.e. 4 individual: > penny coins), in contrast to "there are fourpence on the8 > table" (possibly made up of one threepenny bit and one	 > penny).i >   = From faraway memories of growing up in one of "the colonies":   @ "there *is* fourpence on the table" (as one consolidated amount.= also "thrup'ny" not threepenny, and "tuppence-three-farthing" ' (price of a loaf of bread back when...)t    8 > Ah, the threepenny bit ... yeah, I know, I can hear it: > coming - "you had a threepenny bit ? you were lucky ..." > :-)= >  > Showing my age ( >L ), >  > Roy Omondo > Blue Bubble Ltd.     ( approaching LX ) -- uE ---------------------------------------------------------------------uE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.o? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*&F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:08:31 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies.3 Message-ID: <HV0LcqQaNt8X@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  d In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:  L > We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73 pennies. We > would specify 73 pence.n  E    We seem to be moving further away from anglicization.  We'd call ayH    similar price 73 cents.  Maybe it has something to do with Lafayette.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:29:47 GMTP" From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies 9 Message-ID: <Xns93C974F248D0Afalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>1  0 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in, news:wF0fR+MYA3qO@eisner.encompasserve.org:   8 > In article <00A23A35.80C3BF4D@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,H > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")
 > writes: 6 >> In article <+DeHymxhTnGl@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3 >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: -B >>>In article <bg97h9$lmhcv$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John( >>>Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:  >>>:C >>>> We would not, for example, quote the price of a meat pie as 73aB >>>> pennies. We would specify 73 pence. Maybe a pint of beer as 2B >>>> pounds 48 pence (about 4 dollars, and yes, some are even moreH >>>> expensive!). We would however, say 'a pound and a penny' if it were >>>> the appropriate price.  >>>> m >>>> So.* >>>> Pence is all values between 2 and 99,- >>>> Penny is only for the singular item, andaC >>>> Pennies is only for multiple instances of the unit value coin.C >>>a@ >>>That is the same as the US, except we use "cents" rather than >>>"pence".  >> r, >> I was going to agree, but actually we say >> -B >> "For just pennies a month" or "Just a few cents a month" pretty4 >> interchangeably, so it's not completely the same. > E > I think the "pennies a month" slogan is just an advertising device, > > intended to conjure up the image of a small number of coins.   Yup.  D > Asking how much change you need back, I would not expect an answer > of "four pennies".  D - unless, perhaps, talking to a young child learning to count money.  G Also, in U.S. and Canada, "penny" is not the official name of any coin -H or amount of money.  It is "one cent", not "one penny", and has been so  for a very long time.e   -- o@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca p@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roadh1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4-  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.420 ************************