1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 03 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 426       Contents: Re: 30 days from hell  Re: 30 days from hell  Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file Re: DSSI problem= Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer A Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer A Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer A Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer A Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer 1 FA: Software on 4 Digital DEC CompacTape TZ30/TK5 - Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver - Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver - RE: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver - RE: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver - Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum. P Re: MS Line Break Dictates (was Re: And the cherry petal falls intothe saki glasB Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processorB Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processor Re: RF31 hardware problem  The Mezei Connection9 Windows XP - Was: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer & Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies& Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:01:42 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: 30 days from hell' Message-ID: <3F2D23D6.DB6AB957@fsi.net>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > >Sue:  > > H > >Might this be a candidate for OpenVMS success stories (even though it( > >involves a third-party TCP/IP stack)? > >  > > % > I wouldn't dis. TCPware so quickly,   C Wasn't intended as a dis., just an acknowledgement that hp might be 5 reluctant to tout a user claim involving stuff "NIH".    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:03:24 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: 30 days from hell' Message-ID: <3F2D243C.70708D7A@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > h > In article <pxSWa.7021$mv6.1232076@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:3 > >The following two events actually just happened:  > >{...snip...}  > > 6 > >1. OpenVMS is still evolving and does have a futureO > >2. HP seems to be doing a better job promoting OpenVMS than either Compaq or  > >DEC > J > You canadians are always drinking too much! ;)  HP is doing a better jobJ > than Compaq?  You're joking, right?  Compaq, IMHO, didn't do shit and HPJ > has me wishing I could have shit over whatever it is they're doling out! > J > Don't get me wrong... with VMS in the state it's in, drinking is all you > have.   E Rather like being sedated before they stick a scope down your throat: 5 doesn't ease the discomfort, just helps you not care.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:20:15 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file - Message-ID: <87adaskmcw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   & erikbenada@yahoo.ca (ericisko) writes:  A > ***  VBN 1848100:  The bucket chains for key #0 contain a loop. 7 > Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file.   ! > The analysis uncovered 1 error.   B Oh dear :( You may be able to recover the file with a CONVERT/FAST- as long as the data bucket chains are intact.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2003 09:11:04 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) ' Subject: Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file - Message-ID: <1g6nJyAxwcxw@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   . In article <87adaskmcw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, 1    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:   ( > erikbenada@yahoo.ca (ericisko) writes: > B >> ***  VBN 1848100:  The bucket chains for key #0 contain a loop.8 >> Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file. > " >> The analysis uncovered 1 error. > D > Oh dear :( You may be able to recover the file with a CONVERT/FAST/ > as long as the data bucket chains are intact.  >   A    I thought the key #0 bucket chain *was* the data bucket chain.   I    Records in an Indexed file are stored in primary key order in a linked B list of data buckets ( the key #0 bucket chain). Sequential accessB to the data (ie just using a series of GETs ) is done by followingC this linked list. I believe the error quoted above means that there C is a corruption in this list so there's no way to sequentially read ? the file beyond this error. CONVERT/FAST needs to read the file @ in sequential order, so it will fail when it reaches the corrupt@ bucket ( I don't know if it's smart enough to fail at that point; or if it will just keep reading the same records forever ).   ;    Assuming this is the only corruption in the file you may G be able to recover by reading the file sequentially up to the corrupted H bucket, then reading the next record by its primary key value ( eg usingH an indexed GET for KEY #0 greater than the last record read ). Once that> record is read you should be able to read the rest of the fileF sequentially. By doing an indexed lookup you use the upper level index7 tree for key 0 to find the bucket containing the record 5 ( bypassing the linked list and the looping chain ).     ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:28:45 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Corrupted Indexed RMS file 2 Message-ID: <iMmdnQZY7ZnRpbCiXTWJiA@metrocast.net>  > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message' news:1g6nJyAxwcxw@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.... / > In article <87adaskmcw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, 3 >    Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  > * > > erikbenada@yahoo.ca (ericisko) writes: > > D > >> ***  VBN 1848100:  The bucket chains for key #0 contain a loop.: > >> Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file. > > $ > >> The analysis uncovered 1 error. > > F > > Oh dear :( You may be able to recover the file with a CONVERT/FAST1 > > as long as the data bucket chains are intact.  > >  > C >    I thought the key #0 bucket chain *was* the data bucket chain.  > K >    Records in an Indexed file are stored in primary key order in a linked D > list of data buckets ( the key #0 bucket chain). Sequential accessD > to the data (ie just using a series of GETs ) is done by followingE > this linked list. I believe the error quoted above means that there E > is a corruption in this list so there's no way to sequentially read A > the file beyond this error. CONVERT/FAST needs to read the file B > in sequential order, so it will fail when it reaches the corruptB > bucket ( I don't know if it's smart enough to fail at that point= > or if it will just keep reading the same records forever ).  > = >    Assuming this is the only corruption in the file you may I > be able to recover by reading the file sequentially up to the corrupted J > bucket, then reading the next record by its primary key value ( eg usingJ > an indexed GET for KEY #0 greater than the last record read ). Once that@ > record is read you should be able to read the rest of the fileH > sequentially. By doing an indexed lookup you use the upper level index9 > tree for key 0 to find the bucket containing the record 6 > ( bypassing the linked list and the looping chain ).  I And if that fails (because the highest primary key value permitted in the J bucket containing the last record you successfully read happens to greaterH than that of the record), just keep incrementing the search key until itI succeeds.  And if you've got alternate indexes, it might be useful to try J scans with them as well (just in case whatever corrupted the primary indexL left some data buckets isolated and inaccessible via the primary index):  ifK you don't allow duplicate primary keys (or can otherwise filter the records J you retrieve to keep from duplicating any), then any undeleted data recordJ that you can get to by whatever normal index path (scrounging around usingJ block I/O may be more chancey, depending on whether RMS-32 bothers to markG records deleted when it's reclaiming whole buckets) can be used to help  rebuild the file.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:14:12 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: DSSI problem - Message-ID: <87el04kmmz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 Thierry Dussuet <thierry@squeeeez.no-ip.com> writes:  E > In article <87el06nqs6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi wrote: : >> You didn't knock either of the terminators off did you?  < > Umm... I didn't see anything like a terminator.  I cleanedB > everything up again, as said in the post before...  but it stillE > doesn't see them.  As it is now, there is a backplane with slots in ? > it, where the hard disk enclosures fit in.  There is only one ? > possibility to put the hard disk in such that you can put the C > screws.  Then on the front there is a cable to the plastic front, B > where the LEDs are, and the write-protection button and the DSSID > number.  I've also tried to remove one disk after the other but it > doesn't make any difference.  6 > Do you know where the terminators are on a VAX 4000?  @ On the silver panel for the CPU, there are 2 `Honda' connectors,= one at the bottom left corner, another a bit above and right. > These need aither a cable to a storage box or other system, orA a terminator. DSSI terminators have a largish window with a green  LED under them.   D There should also be one on the Honda at the extreme left end of the) system, past the Q-bus slots. Or a cable.   F If you have a 400RX(??) box and only one CPU, the terminator will liveF on the `other' connector on the storage box. They will be micro-telcos though, not Hondas.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:58:16 +0000 (UTC)7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) F Subject: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer/ Message-ID: <bgj0t8$vun$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   _ In article <CYGcncusd4hm6bGiU-KYgg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  ! - !<VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message + !news:00A23CAD.5A8D1CC8@SendSpamHere.ORG...  !snip!   !  Cursed abomination!  No2 !> way is this Micro$hit intuitive or easy to use. ! K !Are you seriously suggesting that typing individual Copy commands (because E !the files you want don't happen to have an exclusive common wildcard M !representation) is as easy as point-and-clicking one at a time, let alone by M !groups?  Or that learning to select from viewable lists, as described above, M !is more obscure than learning DCL?  I rather doubt that the vast majority of G !the world would agree - because if they did, they'd all be using Linux  !already (without its GUIs). !    Pardon the interruption -   L Why would one need to type the individual COPY commands?  The command recallJ buffer, and minimal cursor positioning, is sufficient for most tasks.  DCLO command procedures are sufficient for most of the remaining cases.  I judge the K learning curve to be approximately equal for both platforms; I didn't learn L about the use of the ALT key for Windows selection until this morning (whileL reading this "thread").  I'm still learning new things to do with DCL daily.   !  I dicked about for ! !> about an hour to copy 9 files!  ! J !If so, it would have taken you far less time to learn what you were doing3 !than it did to struggle on without having done so.   O When you're in the middle of a stuggle with the unknown, it's hard to step back G and say, "Gee, I should really learn the correct way to do this task."  O Ultimately, the rewards of doing the right thing are enormous, but it's hard to < see the outcome when you're in the middle of the forest.	:-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:19:48 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer2 Message-ID: <2ducnaSsr-Guq7CiU-KYvw@metrocast.net>  D "Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message) news:bgj0t8$vun$1@grandcanyon.binc.net... @ > In article <CYGcncusd4hm6bGiU-KYgg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > ! / > !<VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message - > !news:00A23CAD.5A8D1CC8@SendSpamHere.ORG...  > !snip! > !  Cursed abomination!  No4 > !> way is this Micro$hit intuitive or easy to use. > ! D > !Are you seriously suggesting that typing individual Copy commands (becauseG > !the files you want don't happen to have an exclusive common wildcard L > !representation) is as easy as point-and-clicking one at a time, let alone byH > !groups?  Or that learning to select from viewable lists, as described above,L > !is more obscure than learning DCL?  I rather doubt that the vast majority ofI > !the world would agree - because if they did, they'd all be using Linux  > !already (without its GUIs). > !  >  > Pardon the interruption -  > : > Why would one need to type the individual COPY commands?  L Because at a minimum the filespecs within the directory differ.  You may notC have to type 'copy' each time, but type you must each time unless a J convenient wildcard representation happens to cover all the files that you want (and no others)..     The command recallL > buffer, and minimal cursor positioning, is sufficient for most tasks.  DCLD > command procedures are sufficient for most of the remaining cases.  J Are you seriously suggesting that writing a procedure with individual nameH elements, even a very simple one, is as easy as choosing elements from aL list (especially when they at least in some cases group conveniently) with aK mouse?  Even for a *good* typist, let alone the average PC user (though PCs H have probably contributed more to typing skills than all the secretarialH schools in the universe)?  Or even that judicious line-editing using the command recall buffer is?   
   I judge the > > learning curve to be approximately equal for both platforms;  J That's easy to say when the platform that you're familiar with is the more complex one.    I didn't learn  > about the use of the ALT  E As noted earlier, a moment of brainfade:  globally replace 'ALT' with  'CTRL'.   4  key for Windows selection until this morning (whileG > reading this "thread").  I'm still learning new things to do with DCL  daily.  G Exactly.  DCL is of course far richer than virtually *any* GUI could be J (unless the GUI allows you to drop out into command mode - and the WindowsL GUI in many ways does, but not universally since, of course, the applicationK itself must support that).  The Windows GUI is actually also pretty rich in F and of itself, but I've never bothered learning much of it because the simple things work so easily.    >  > !  I dicked about for # > !> about an hour to copy 9 files!  > ! L > !If so, it would have taken you far less time to learn what you were doing5 > !than it did to struggle on without having done so.  > L > When you're in the middle of a stuggle with the unknown, it's hard to step backH > and say, "Gee, I should really learn the correct way to do this task."I > Ultimately, the rewards of doing the right thing are enormous, but it's  hard to > > see the outcome when you're in the middle of the forest. :-)  J Even if the rewards aren't enormous (e.g., you assume you'll never use theH $%#* PC again), after some amount of time considerably less than an hourE spent on such a trivial task one should start to realize that another  approach might be indicated.  G It is of course possible that VAXman actually encountered a GUI bug (or L obscure 'feature') of some kind rather than simply struggled futilely tryingK to use click and shift-click to copy multiple discontiguous groups of files K at once.  But given the age and universality of this particular idiom, that   wouldn't be my first assumption.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2003 17:42:15 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>J Subject: Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer6 Message-ID: <20030803174215.31055.qmail@gacracker.org>  ? On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:    <snip>  H >It is of course possible that VAXman actually encountered a GUI bug (orM >obscure 'feature') of some kind rather than simply struggled futilely trying L >to use click and shift-click to copy multiple discontiguous groups of filesL >at once.  But given the age and universality of this particular idiom, that! >wouldn't be my first assumption.   M I think it goes back to the comment about some features being hidden in plain  sight.  ! SCOTTY:      Computer....Computer   0              (Technician hands Scotty the mouse)  9 SCOTTY:      (Using mouse as microphone)  Hello, computer   # TECHNICIAN:  Just use the keyboard!   ' SCOTTY:      The keyboard?  How quaint!      Doc. --  K OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:53:50 +0000 (UTC)7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) J Subject: Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer/ Message-ID: <bgjemu$3q7$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>   _ In article <2ducnaSsr-Guq7CiU-KYvw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  ! E !"Bradford J. Hamilton" <hamilton@Encompasserve.org> wrote in message * !news:bgj0t8$vun$1@grandcanyon.binc.net... |snip! !> Pardon the interruption - !>; !> Why would one need to type the individual COPY commands?  ! M !Because at a minimum the filespecs within the directory differ.  You may not D !have to type 'copy' each time, but type you must each time unless aK !convenient wildcard representation happens to cover all the files that you  !want (and no others)..  !  !  The command recall M !> buffer, and minimal cursor positioning, is sufficient for most tasks.  DCL E !> command procedures are sufficient for most of the remaining cases.  ! K !Are you seriously suggesting that writing a procedure with individual name I !elements, even a very simple one, is as easy as choosing elements from a M !list (especially when they at least in some cases group conveniently) with a L !mouse?  Even for a *good* typist, let alone the average PC user (though PCsI !have probably contributed more to typing skills than all the secretarial I !schools in the universe)?  Or even that judicious line-editing using the  !command recall buffer is? !   L Writing a procedure in DCL is usually handled with one of the native editorsN (TPU, EDT, or TECO), each of which has "command keystroke utilities" (for wantJ of a better phrase), which allow the user to cut, paste, "learn" keystrokeK combinations, etc...which considerably ease the typing task at hand.  Put a N "template" line at the top of the command file, cut/paste/massage the templateK line to suit your needs, and "bob's your uncle"	:-) (no, not *that* bob!!!)    !  I judge the? !> learning curve to be approximately equal for both platforms;  ! K !That's easy to say when the platform that you're familiar with is the more 
 !complex one.   J "It's all releative" - character-cell interfaces are "easy" for me to use,M because I've used them for close to thirty years now.  I consider GUI's to be N the more complex interface, since they are relatively newer.  My adult son hasH grown up with GUI's for most of his life - I can show him character-cellD interfaces, but he won't use them because they are either historicalN curiosities, or present a steeper learning curve.  The *only* reason that mostL people prefer GUI's over CC interfaces is because they are the more-familiarA interface - familiar because of ubiquity, not intrinsic goodness.    !snip!M !> When you're in the middle of a stuggle with the unknown, it's hard to step  !back I !> and say, "Gee, I should really learn the correct way to do this task." J !> Ultimately, the rewards of doing the right thing are enormous, but it's !hard to? !> see the outcome when you're in the middle of the forest. :-)  ! K !Even if the rewards aren't enormous (e.g., you assume you'll never use the I !$%#* PC again), after some amount of time considerably less than an hour F !spent on such a trivial task one should start to realize that another !approach might be indicated.   H Oh, I don't know - when I'm "in a zone" and struggling, hours go by likeN minutes.  I think that such reactions are genetically programmed into humans -I we will continue at a particular task in a particular manner because mere I application of effort to a problem will sometimes yield positive results. < Laziness, or judicious use of available energy - you decide.   ! H !It is of course possible that VAXman actually encountered a GUI bug (orM !obscure 'feature') of some kind rather than simply struggled futilely trying L !to use click and shift-click to copy multiple discontiguous groups of filesL !at once.  But given the age and universality of this particular idiom, that! !wouldn't be my first assumption.   J Again, it's relative - VAXMAN is almost as old as me	:-), and I assume hisJ experience parallels mine, in some ways.  I'm just more comfortable in theK "other" world, and therefore, I will always need to expend more effort on a 4 task in the GUI world.  No value judgements there...   !  !- bill    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:19:39 -0400* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer2 Message-ID: <gvqdnTop-Y3_2bCiU-KYgw@metrocast.net>  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 0 news:20030803174215.31055.qmail@gacracker.org...   ...   # > SCOTTY:      Computer....Computer  > 2 >              (Technician hands Scotty the mouse) > ; > SCOTTY:      (Using mouse as microphone)  Hello, computer  > % > TECHNICIAN:  Just use the keyboard!  > ) > SCOTTY:      The keyboard?  How quaint!    Truly a classic.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:06:51 GMT 9 From: "headley sappleton" <headley.sappleton@verizon.net> : Subject: FA: Software on 4 Digital DEC CompacTape TZ30/TK56 Message-ID: <%F8Xa.3304$602.1740@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>  : Item name:   Software on 4 Digital DEC CompacTape TZ30/TK51 Item number:                           3039138448 , Start price:                           $9.95= End date:                              Aug-12-03 18:36:21 PDT W http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3039138448&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:US:1    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:51:13 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver4 Message-ID: <5z7Xa.80817$2j1.1092716@news.chello.at>  R In article <8tWcnRO_FZfOgbGiU-KYvg@comcast.com>, "m68k" <m68k@comcast.net> writes:- >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   + Please don't. This is a text-only newsgroup   I >I am a newbie to VMS and DEC hardware. I am in the process of converting D >most of my Linux servers on my home network to OpenVMS. Due to someH >recent donations from a local university, I now have an Alphaserver 300G >and a VAX6000/610 with two disk arrays, 9mm tape drive, Infoserver and F >more! The VAX takes up half my garage and is power hungry beast (evenG >without disk arrays turned on) compared to the little Alpha. I want to ? >make the Alpha my http, IMAP, ftp, Telnet shell access server.   
 Good idea.   And get rid of the VAX6000 ;-)L With the money of the (saved) electrical power bill you can buy a new AMD PCM plus an additional VAX hardware emulator (like CHARON-VAX) maybe every month.   E >Question: I want to put a larger SCSI hard drive in the Alphaserver. G >Currently it has two 1gig drives. I need at least a 8 gig drive. Can I D >simply add an 8gig drive and then do a fresh OpenVMS install, or is! >there a limit to the drive size?   , I recommend, reading at least the VMS FAQ !!  M There is a limit of 1.08GB for the _system_ disk on certain old VAX hardware. - But this is not the case for _your_ hardware.   M There is a limit of ~8GB for every disk on very old VAX/VMS (aka OpenVMS VAX) G versions (below V6). But this versions were current more one and a half I decade ago so I think, that this is not the case for _your_ software (but L you forgot to mention which version you [want to] run, so we can't be sure).  P I'd recommend OpenVMS VAX V7.3 and/or OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (V7.3-2 in late fall)  F And, yes, you can add more disk drives without problems as you long asK they fit into the case and have the same electrical dimensions (so probably J no IDE or UltraSCSI, only SCSI, and a properly terminated SCSI Bus). There$ are external disks possible however.  O As minimum size for a VAX system disk, I'd say 1GB minimum and 2GB recommended. O As minimum size for Alpha system disk, I'd say 2GB minimum and 4GB recommended.   I Smaller disks _can_ be used with both platforms by not installing layered I products (which you might miss later on) or by removing some parts of VMS G (debugger, assembler, fonts,...) or by having page/swap[/dump] files on C non-system disks (but for a beginner this is not a first day task).   K Installing a disk doesn't need a reinstall or even a reboot of VMS (as long K as you need not open the chassis where a power-down is highly recommended). M A simple "SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALL" (VAX) "SYSMAN> IO AUTOCONFIGURE" (Alpha) H is all you need to see/get in VMS the newly added devices (mind for SCSII ID conflicts). They pop up as [$alloclass$]DKAxxx: just like other disks.   K Moving the system disk from the 1GB disk to a new say 2GB disk doesn't need M a reinstallation of VMS either (but maybe you want to do this as an exercise)   K (in my last job I did the last installation of VMS about 1987 with VMS V4.6 N and only did VMS upgrades since then - or did _clone_ a disk for new systems -I I'm to lazy to install a fresh VMS, install more than 20 layered products M later and finally install way over 30 ECOs - so who needs a fresh install ? - L This means, I did install every ECO for every hardware every time, because I4 might have got this hardware a few months later ;-).  L You only need to BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK srcdsk:/IMAGE dstdsk:/NOINIT (afterM INIT/USER=SYSTEM/OWNER=SYSTEM/HEADER=70000 dstdsk: and MOUNT/FOREIGN dstdsk:)   L You could make this backup even from the running system, but the recommendedJ way is to shutdown VMS and boot standalone-backup (on VAX) or boot a small, VMS eg. from VMS installation CD (on Alpha).  : I hope you are familiar with the OpenVMS hobbyist program.I I hope you are aware that third party IP stacks like TCPware and Multinet & also have an OpenVMS hobbyist license.E I hope you are aware that many freeware products also run on OpenVMS. F I hope you read the available VMS docs one after another until you are) finished (which takes some months/years). K And finally I hope that you will love VMS and come back here for questions,  suggestions and discussions...  	 Good luck    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:23:38 -0500 From: "m68k" <m68k@comcast.net> 6 Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver0 Message-ID: <rRqdncBIy_vb2bCiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>  > THX. I will grab an 8-10gb SCSI drive from eBAY for the Alpha.  H I have been working with VMS for about two weeks now (mainly install andK configuration). The biggest learning curve from Unix/Linux to VMS so far is I file handling and the absence of pipes. I also am a VI fan, but I want to G learn EDT so I am not going to install the VMS port (at least not yet).   @ Thanks again for the help. I am sure I will have more questions.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:34:24 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEGLHLAA.tom@kednos.com>   I Pipes are available in 7.3, a bit more cumbersome and less efficient than 7 on unix.  emacs is also available, which has a vi mode.    >-----Original Message----- % >From: m68k [mailto:m68k@comcast.net] ' >Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:24 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver  >  > ? >THX. I will grab an 8-10gb SCSI drive from eBAY for the Alpha.  > I >I have been working with VMS for about two weeks now (mainly install and L >configuration). The biggest learning curve from Unix/Linux to VMS so far isJ >file handling and the absence of pipes. I also am a VI fan, but I want toH >learn EDT so I am not going to install the VMS port (at least not yet). > A >Thanks again for the help. I am sure I will have more questions.  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:44:06 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 6 Subject: RE: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEGLHLAA.tom@kednos.com>   
 Forgot to add F 1.  I bought 73Gb drives (cheetahs) last week on pricewatch.com (Great Minds)for $234, 4     which was cheaper than what I could find on ebayF 2.  Don't throw away the 1GB drives VAX3100 users need them for system disks. >-----Original Message----- ) >From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com] ' >Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:34 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >Subject: RE: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver  >  > J >Pipes are available in 7.3, a bit more cumbersome and less efficient than8 >on unix.  emacs is also available, which has a vi mode. >  >>-----Original Message-----& >>From: m68k [mailto:m68k@comcast.net]( >>Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:24 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 8 >>Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver >> >>@ >>THX. I will grab an 8-10gb SCSI drive from eBAY for the Alpha. >>J >>I have been working with VMS for about two weeks now (mainly install andC >>configuration). The biggest learning curve from Unix/Linux to VMS 
 >so far isK >>file handling and the absence of pipes. I also am a VI fan, but I want to I >>learn EDT so I am not going to install the VMS port (at least not yet).  >>B >>Thanks again for the help. I am sure I will have more questions. >> >> >>--- ( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B >>Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 >> >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003s >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003  >e ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:38:04 GMTd- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>d6 Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver; Message-ID: <0MbXa.2726$jg.1741066@news1.news.adelphia.net>    m68k wrote:e@ > THX. I will grab an 8-10gb SCSI drive from eBAY for the Alpha. > J > I have been working with VMS for about two weeks now (mainly install andM > configuration). The biggest learning curve from Unix/Linux to VMS so far is ) > file handling and the absence of pipes.e  L PIPEs have been present for few versions.  File handling is easy to pick up.   -Johnm wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyp   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 10:48:17 +0200k) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)c4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <VgJhFrW1QQrk@elias.decus.ch>i  l In article <20030802154724.3895.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:9 > On 2 Aug 03, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  >  > <snip> > H >>For a long time (more than 10 years now) I have suspected that M$ doesK >>well out of deliberately making things difficult. This is done by gettingsL >>the user sufficiently involved in fighting the system that they think theyH >>have achieved something useful and are then willing to share their newI >>found knowledge with family and friends to give themselves some status.A >>C >>Pathetic for those of us who know better, but unfortunately true.t >>K >>Here's something to consider. When I installed Win98 plus the WordPerfect(L >>Office suite it took me about 4 hours and 11 reboots, and I wasted several5 >>weeks of effort trying to get it to talk to my ISP.d >>K >>In contrast, on the same machine, NT 4.0 took only 50 minutes and about 2v> >>reboots, and I was connected to my ISP at the first attempt. > N > I've been fiddling with installing XP Pro.  The machine was a build to orderI > box, so I have a collection of install disks for things like a cordless  > rechargeable mouse.r >   H A cordless rechargeable mouse? LOL. What BS next? Surely it needs a cord for the rechaarging bit.  L > Now, I must be getting old, because I do remember when computers came withN > manuals.  Manuals with indices you could find things in.  Nowadays you get aL > crappy booklet that encourages you to sit at the keyboard and "have a go".P > All the while there's this little nag box saying register.  Well, I will, whenL > I've finished getting a good install and a #$%&ing backup I can work from. >   D Which reminds me of my Apple iBook. The rather slim manual that cameC with it (French, German take your pick) is little more than a salesPD pamphlet telling me what great things the major applications can do.J It then starts talking about the Command and Option keys. Yep, the EnglishG words used in both languages. NOWHERE on the keyboard, nor in the docs,p9 is there any indication of which keys these actually are.p  G Very few guidelines as to what those keys do either. A simple half sided4 of A5 instructions would have done, but no, nothing.  M And the Swiss Gereman keyboard is a total joke. I have to switch to US layout,N and touch type to get # | [ ] and so on, which is pretty sick for a unix basedC system (thankyou to whoever made VMS recognise <> for directories).p  L Not to mention that accidentally hitting the accented character keys freezesO the keyboard when in the Terminal (CLI) application until you hit the spacebar.   J > Honestly, the stack of CDs that came with the system is thicker than theK > documentation. It sure ain't "intuitive".  VMS on the other hand... I satkP > down, read a few pages of a book, stuck the CD in, and had a working system in* > under an hour, and at the first attempt. >   N From my NT days, I can seriously recommend getting hold of the Server ResourceO Kit. At 150 UKP it was not cheap, but gave me the manuals I thought should haveaH come with the product, plus various useful utilities. Amongst other gemsI it told me that a reboot every 14 days was a good idea :-), but seriously  the SRK was worth the money.  O At (IIRC) a third of the price, the Workstation equivalent wasn't worth buying. L The server edition CD contained the Workstation documentation as a help file8 amyway (hah - couldn't print that out in one go either).  6 > Microsoft - Making life difficult since Windows 3.1. > F As I implied before, make life hard enough for the users that they getM committed to the product and start discussing it outside normal working hours. and you've got 'em.u   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 11:45:47 +0200t) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <fKMVR97nJ0qV@elias.decus.ch>   ` In article <bggmg6$miu14$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:) > On 02-Aug-2003 17:47, Doc.Cypher wrote:s >  >> [...] >> dM >> Now, I must be getting old, because I do remember when computers came with O >> manuals.  Manuals with indices you could find things in.  Nowadays you get a M >> crappy booklet that encourages you to sit at the keyboard and "have a go".eQ >> All the while there's this little nag box saying register.  Well, I will, when M >> I've finished getting a good install and a #$%&ing backup I can work from.f >> r >> [...] > G > And usually the "Rescue and Recovery Manual" is also available onlinerH > only -- perhaps a tiny note on a sheet of paper indicating it would be@ > advantageous to print that document before you really need it. > G If you only knew what a struggle I have had getting various flavours ofd Windows to get online :-)   H And then stopping it from going online on its own to rack up unnecessary phone bills...  F Mind you, Linux is in many ways worse. It assumes you have a permanentE connection with unlimited bandwidth. Apple's help also wanders off to-H www.apple.com when really with the 20GB disk my iBook came with, all theD help I should ever need can sit on disk. Actually, that's my biggestD grouse about the iBook. When I got it, it was a nice sunny day, so IG fired it up in the living room, too far away from my back bedroom where E have my network. It really insisted on an outside connection, to the  F stage where I had to disconnect it from the mains and take the batteryG out to get going again. I think that day, my name was President Carter,a with a Whitehouse address :-)e  E This is a frigging laptop. It's meant to be useful on the train or in C the middle of nowhere, which is why I paid a premium above the costtK of a desktop model. Apple have many things right (dammit, why does the word C Marketing spring to mind?), but they really need to do some work on  the laptop side of things.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 11:57:11 +0200a) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <QHm+OiKnVT2q@elias.decus.ch>   i In article <bggog4$9d6$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes: k > In article <RsQWa.127255$XV.7207184@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes:, > !snip!I > !Back before the Great Tech Wreck, people asked me why I didn't want tonH > !work on Windows, and many of them had worked on VMS, so they knew theK > !difference between the quality of VMS and the crapware shoveled out fromo" > !One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA. > !hI > !My usual reply was that my blood pressure would get too high having toe+ > !deal with the crapware 100% of the time.n > !xH > !It's amazing that the MGMs/PHBs will tolerate anything and everythingK > !from Microsoft. That situation will NOT change until there is a calamitydM > !with a large loss of life and property directly attributable to Microsoft.t > !c > K > The biggest reason that they tolerate it, is because *they* don't have to.O > fix the problems that crap foists on "us" (the folks who have to support it).u > Truly "plug 'n' play"	:-). >   ( Surely that should read "plug 'n' pray"?  Q > (Of course, not every MGM/PHB *really* feels this way - I know of an owner of aiN > small business who thinks that Word is a POS, and laments the loss of WP for > VMS.)	:-)c > E A conversation from a couple of colleagues the other day: The PC guysn= told someone they were using too much disk space on a server.l  G "Can't you delete some of this stuff? You are over your allotted limit"e "No"F "But you've got files dating back to 1998. Surely you don't need those
 may more?"L "Those are the layouts of our server rooms, machine serial numbers, the lot"  E I didn't get the rest of the conversation, as my phone rang, but I ami sure you get the pciture.u   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 12:25:25 +0200-) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <YM6lpwPC1hEE@elias.decus.ch>e  U In article <00A23CAD.5A8D1CC8@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: n > In article <20030802154724.3895.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:9 >>On 2 Aug 03, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  >>{...snip...}I >>>For a long time (more than 10 years now) I have suspected that M$ does L >>>well out of deliberately making things difficult. This is done by getting >>{...snip...}6 >>Microsoft - Making life difficult since Windows 3.1. > G > My wife and I purchased a digital camera for my son for his birthday.fH > I wanted one of the Canon units that burn to a mini CD-R; thus, avoid-F > ing the braindamage which emanates from the software sewage lines ofH > the Cult of Redmond Abject Programming.  It was not to be.  He got one > with a USB interface.m > F > I borrowed it to take a few pictures of my home Guinness setup for aF > web page devoted to my zymological zealotry.  After transferring theD > files from the camera (which for some blasted reason requires thatF > the PeeCee be booted twice into Weendoze'98 twice before it sees it)C > I needed to transfer them to another disk so that Weendoze NT cantD > see it so I can then transfer them to my Alpha.  My wife showed meD > how to copy a group of files.  What a fucking pain in the ass thatD > is.  She said you click on one and then use the shift key to clickF > on others you want.  OK.  There were 9 files that I wanted.  No mat-E > ter how hard I tried, I could only get 6 or 4 files at a time to bemD > "highlighted".  It had a mind of its own and wanted to decide for D > ME which files it would allow me to copy.  Cursed abomination!  NoE > way is this Micro$hit intuitive or easy to use.  I dicked about forh" > about an hour to copy 9 files!   >    This _should_ be easy.   If you have:   a.txt6 b.txt( c.txtr d.txti  G Click on a.txt and hold shift down whilst clicking on c.txt and it willR select a.txt, b.txt, c.txt.d  ! Only want a.txt, c.txt and d.txt?$  G Click on a.txt, hold down CTRL then click on c.txt then click on d.txt.t  ? Next, right click and pick copy or cut from the drop down menu.n6 Right click on your target directory and select paste.  G If you selected copy in the first step, it will copy the files (with ansD intensely annoying popup window telling you of its progress). If you+ selected cut, it will delete the originals.s  I Having said that, the DOS command line offers an alternative. You do needrC to realize that any filename longer than 8.3 will translate to someo, gibberish involving a ~, but it is workable.   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:40:55 +0000 (UTC)7 From: hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton)d4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer/ Message-ID: <bgivsn$vle$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>e  U In article <QHm+OiKnVT2q@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: j !In article <bggog4$9d6$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:l !> In article <RsQWa.127255$XV.7207184@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes: !snip!I !> !It's amazing that the MGMs/PHBs will tolerate anything and everythingtL !> !from Microsoft. That situation will NOT change until there is a calamityN !> !with a large loss of life and property directly attributable to Microsoft. !> ! !> oL !> The biggest reason that they tolerate it, is because *they* don't have toP !> fix the problems that crap foists on "us" (the folks who have to support it). !> Truly "plug 'n' play"	:-).d !> t !b) !Surely that should read "plug 'n' pray"?t  N The MGMs/PHBs "plug" you by making you support the product, then stroll off to "play" golf.	:-)   !snip!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:52:26 GMT-" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer0 Message-ID: <00A23D25.0D87572B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <YM6lpwPC1hEE@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:rV >In article <00A23CAD.5A8D1CC8@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: {...spin...} >This _should_ be easy.  >n
 >If you have:c >4 >a.txt >b.txt >c.txt >d.txt  K I wanted the equivalent of b.jpg through j.jpg on a page with a.jpg through>K t.jpg  The click and shift-click would only select a grouping of only 4 or  ? 6 files at a time and not necessary files that I wanted copied.e    H >Click on a.txt, hold down CTRL then click on c.txt then click on d.txt.  K CTRL click is news to me but next time -- but I pray that there won't be --v I'll give it a try.     @ >Next, right click and pick copy or cut from the drop down menu.7 >Right click on your target directory and select paste.w  I That I've gotten down to a science since Weendoze'98 won't copy to the NTtJ disk and I can't copy from the camera to disk under NT.  Therefore, I copyJ from camera to '98 (need to boot it twice to recognize the camera), then IH boot NT and copy from the '98 disk to the NT disk.  I can FTP the files  from NT to the Alpha.       J >Having said that, the DOS command line offers an alternative. You do needD >to realize that any filename longer than 8.3 will translate to some- >gibberish involving a ~, but it is workable.e  J That's annoying as hell that stupid ~ naming.  I have to MPUT files when IK FTP them because you can't get the FTP to understand the names to move themo one at a time.  K Does anybody reading this thread have one of the floppy camera memeory cardgK readers?  If you do, what does VMS see when you insert the floopy?  This iso" my other alternative if it works.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             f5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" g   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 19:26:24 +0200e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <4rvnuikvdAi+@elias.decus.ch>i  _ In article <CYGcncusd4hm6bGiU-KYgg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > . > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message, > news:00A23CAD.5A8D1CC8@SendSpamHere.ORG... >  > ...r >  >   My wife showed me:E >> how to copy a group of files.  What a fucking pain in the ass thatuE >> is.  She said you click on one and then use the shift key to click  >> on others you want. > K > That would be your first problem:  learning from someone who doesn't knowdM > what they're talking about.  You use the Alt key to add individual files tosJ > your selection list, not the shift key (which is used to add *all* filesL > between the one you first selected and the one you click on with the shift > key depressed).b >    OK. My own Usenet rules here.o  D 1. Don't insult someone  who is technically competent in one OS, but    struggles with another OS. J 2. Don't insult their spouse. (And I will really fight anyone on that one), 3. Don't post technically incorrect garbage.  I FWIW, I will gladly incur international phone charges to get Brian sortedeG out, if I can, simply because he contributes his skills to comp.os.vms.l  H Now I'll shut up, but I would ask you to think before you write, becauseF you are coming across as a first class idiot. I used to think you are < better than that, but in one short posting I have my doubts.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:35:10 GMTi- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer; Message-ID: <iJbXa.2723$jg.1740414@news1.news.adelphia.net>    VAXman- wrote:  M > Does anybody reading this thread have one of the floppy camera memeory cardoM > readers?  If you do, what does VMS see when you insert the floopy?  This isi# > my other alternative if it works.u  H I have never heard of that.  Is this something that looks like a floppy 6 disk, but actually has a memory card inserted into it?  B If it is truly emulating a 1.44 Mb floppy, then it probably would H produce a FAT file structure, so one of the transfer programs listed in  the OpenVMS FAQ might work.n  G But I really do not know.  As long as it produces 512 bit high density cG formatted sectors, a program should be able to read it, and the source e9 for reading the various FAT formats seems to be in LINUX.l   -Johnt wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlys   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2003 17:59:50 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer6 Message-ID: <20030803175950.31308.qmail@gacracker.org>  7 On 3 Aug 03, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:oA >In article <20030802154724.3895.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher., ><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:   <snip>  O >> I've been fiddling with installing XP Pro.  The machine was a build to orderNJ >> box, so I have a collection of install disks for things like a cordless >> rechargeable mouse. >> E >tI >A cordless rechargeable mouse? LOL. What BS next? Surely it needs a cordv >for the rechaarging bit.a  N The recharger cradle has a cable, you just have to remember to park the mouse. :)  N >And the Swiss Gereman keyboard is a total joke. I have to switch to US layoutO >and touch type to get # | [ ] and so on, which is pretty sick for a unix basedgD >system (thankyou to whoever made VMS recognise <> for directories).  N My machine arrived assuming I wanted a Belgian keyboard layout, with the firstG HDD formatted NTFS as a single partition.  It has since been split into:B smaller partitions, mainly 4.7Gb in size so they'll fit on a DVD.   O >From my NT days, I can seriously recommend getting hold of the Server ResourceuP >Kit. At 150 UKP it was not cheap, but gave me the manuals I thought should haveI >come with the product, plus various useful utilities. Amongst other gemsiJ >it told me that a reboot every 14 days was a good idea :-), but seriously >the SRK was worth the money.d  L With 3.1 and 3.11 I got a tiny booklet off the front of a magazine that gaveL enough pointers on managing the windows initialisation files to learn how toM tune the damn thing. KISS seems to have gone out the window (pun intended) inn" an effort to make it idiot proof.   P >At (IIRC) a third of the price, the Workstation equivalent wasn't worth buying.M >The server edition CD contained the Workstation documentation as a help filet9 >amyway (hah - couldn't print that out in one go either).r >t7 >> Microsoft - Making life difficult since Windows 3.1.o >>  G >As I implied before, make life hard enough for the users that they getrN >committed to the product and start discussing it outside normal working hours >and you've got 'em.  D Makes you wonder, is Windows the crack cocaine of operating systems?     :-)f     Doc. -- eK OpenVMS.         Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems..K [New PGP Key - Get via finger]        http://deathrow.vistech.net/BOFH/doc/t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 19:36:51 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <1v6HVogoc0ez@elias.decus.ch>p  i In article <bgivsn$vle$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:    <snip>   > !t+ > !Surely that should read "plug 'n' pray"?o > P > The MGMs/PHBs "plug" you by making you support the product, then stroll off to > "play" golf.	:-) >  One from the 1980s:y  " "Can I speak to your boss please?"' "No, sorry, he's on a course right now"i  I What the secretary (wow we had them then, and they used to drive golfball J typewriters, correct your spelling, talk to lawyers and accountants) meant was "he's on the golf course"    :-)p   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:35:03 -0700f% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer( Message-ID: <3F2D47C7.8040902@rdrop.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > This _should_ be easy. >  > If you have: >  > a.txt b.txt c.txt d.txt  > D > Click on a.txt and hold shift down whilst clicking on c.txt and it" > will select a.txt, b.txt, c.txt. > # > Only want a.txt, c.txt and d.txt?  > B > Click on a.txt, hold down CTRL then click on c.txt then click on > d.txt.   Assume what he had was:    a.jpg   f.jpg   k.jpgl b.jpg   g.jpg   l.jpgs c.jpg   h.jpg   m.jpgt d.jpg   i.jpg   n.mpg  e.jpg   j.jpg   o.jpga  E And he wanted to select b.jpg to n.jpg inclusive. If he clicks b.jpg,nE then SHIFT-click n.jpg, he'll get b,c,d,g,h,i,l,m, and n- leaving outrG e,f,j, and k. That's the way Windows "works" when dealing with multiplet columns of files.    Vaxman:uG > CTRL click is news to me but next time -- but I pray that there won'te > be -- I'll give it a try.c   Know thy enemy. ;-)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 01:04:30 +0800c, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Moving cluster whilst maintaing quorum.- Message-ID: <87ispgkn35.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  & issinoho@slayme.com (issinoho) writes:  C > OK, there's lots of good stuff in all these replies, however if IwC > can draw the subject back to the original question... if you wereaF > getting PAID to do this job and didn't want to stuff things up, what > strategy would you employ?  F > And - sorry I didn't mention this originally - the two storage unitsF > have shadowed volume sets, except the quorum disk of course; if that > makes any difference.-  6 First, you need to get the exact limits for the move.   7 Second, you need a pair of victims to practice on. Make:' most mistakes on `don't care' machines.t  9 Then you need to go through ALL your drives and copy down@8 the info you need for a swap incase some don't come back8 too life at the other end. You do have spares don't you?  - How long does it take to get from old to new?u  < Assuming you need to keep it all running fully, and you have: double checked that vol sets are in different shelves etc.  = Set the reconection time out high, then shut down one system, < pick it up and head for the new spot, leaving sysB Qdisk and> 2 shelves in place. When the new sysA has been sanity checked,< drop one shelf, and trot it over to the new spot and plug it in.r  > Hum, where is you system disk(s)? This could get a bit tricky,> as you want to get it back ASAP and get the shadows caught up.> You may need to fudge a net boot or 3 here. That means setting: each machine to answer MOP, and get them both into the NCP node database.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.&@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:59:31 -0500_1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eY Subject: Re: MS Line Break Dictates (was Re: And the cherry petal falls intothe saki glaso$ Message-ID: <3F2D2353.8326D@fsi.net>   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:h >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Richard Maher wrote: > L > > AFAICT, LookOut!-XP has a known "feature" in that it arbitrarily removesH > > what it considers "extra line breaks", then offers you the option toK > > restore them on an incoming message (hold over from previous versions).oJ > > The "new" "feature" is that this also works when PASTE-ing text into aG > > message, there is no known way to turn it off, AFAIK, and the KB isc > > devoid of anything helpful.  > J > Search a bit, there is an option somewhere to turn it off.  I did that aH > few months ago when the corporate provided box was replaced with an XPI > one.  I do not remember what tab it was under, but it is a good idea torG > look at all the settings to see what the various entities involved int9 > loading up the system thought were reasonable defaults.   E Trouble is, the "option to turn it off" doesn't work. Documented as a  known "feature" in the KB.  J > > 'Tis possible LookOut! Express(Train coming through) suffers a similar > > "feature". > 4 > I have do not have any reason to use that product.  F Nor have I, but the OP used that to post his message; so, I thought it deserved mention.e  E If by chance you should hear of a final fix for this, could I troublesF you post it? This really is a genuine hemorrhoid (bleedin' pain in the arse).   -- h David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:54:02 -0500y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eK Subject: Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processore' Message-ID: <3F2D220A.5BF9E476@fsi.net>s   Bob Ceculski wrote:n > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3F2BF8CE.70BCC48A@fsi.net>... > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > >4a > > > In article <3F2B1F67.C32EDC2F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:d > > > > Ken Farmer wrote:l > > > >>S > > > >> PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processor Systems Nows > > > >> Shipping B > > > >> http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/08/01/5909099 > > > >tO > > > > I'm looking forward to our GS1280s being upped from 12 to 16 CPUs, thennO > > > > to 32 at some later time. These things are REALLY quick as is - oughttaY< > > > > really be something in the newer configurations, eh? > > >sI > > > Of course that depends on whether CPU is your issue.  If disk speedcH > > > is your gating factor other things might need to be adjusted, such > > > as the source code :-) > > G > > It's all Oracle, really. We're doing fine I/O-wise, else my partner(L > > would be complaining - he's rather a stickler about throughput. We don't5 > > really see slowdowns except under two conditions:n > >d > > o All 12 CPUs are maxed J > > o Tons of shadow copies (that were merges until we converted them) dueL > > to a node crash (they've settled down rather nicely now - just chasing aL > > few annoying nits at this point, Multinet kernel SMP issues being one ofI > > them). We like to get these cleared sooner than possible; so, we takem" > > the performance hit "briefly". > C > you will clear them when you switch to TCPware ... it is based onYA > the vms kernel and performs much better than either multinet or 	 > ucx ...   6 ...and that will do exactly what for my shadow copies?   Get serious...   -- o David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 2003 11:22:48 -0500s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)OK Subject: Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processors3 Message-ID: <ts$zNu2qLpwx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F2D220A.5BF9E476@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Bob Ceculski wrote:  >> nc >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3F2BF8CE.70BCC48A@fsi.net>...     H >> > It's all Oracle, really. We're doing fine I/O-wise, else my partnerM >> > would be complaining - he's rather a stickler about throughput. We don't 6 >> > really see slowdowns except under two conditions: >> > >> > o All 12 CPUs are maxedK >> > o Tons of shadow copies (that were merges until we converted them) due-M >> > to a node crash (they've settled down rather nicely now - just chasing avM >> > few annoying nits at this point, Multinet kernel SMP issues being one ofnJ >> > them). We like to get these cleared sooner than possible; so, we take# >> > the performance hit "briefly".n >>  D >> you will clear them when you switch to TCPware ... it is based onB >> the vms kernel and performs much better than either multinet or
 >> ucx ... > 8 > ...and that will do exactly what for my shadow copies?  3 Well then, perhaps switching to Purveyor...     :-)-   ------------------------------   Date: 03 Aug 2003 16:07:13 GMT" From: rufusvii@aol.com (Rufus VII)" Subject: Re: RF31 hardware problem: Message-ID: <20030803120713.24239.00001244@mb-m16.aol.com>   Hi bob,   I when I start up the machine, I hear a "spin-up" sound but not the typicalo
 "seek" sound.r   The steps more detailed: - press power on buttontA - first all lights are on (ready, write protect, fault) as normal.) - the disk spin up with no abnormal soundr - all lights are off  - - after a few seconds the fault light goes onf  M Until now I've not swapped the controller board ... but this will be the nexto; step, after I'll be back from holliday in my homeoffice ;-)   H (then I'll also give the answer about the results of the two command you
 mentioned)  	 greetingsb    rufus   ------------------------------  , Date: Sun,  3 Aug 2003 18:40:05 +0200 (CEST)% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>  Subject: The Mezei Connection 8 Message-ID: <2155bd98b3ad888264f404ef2d3e7787@dizum.com>  ' Rohit Seth <graytown1@lycos.com> wrote:s  A >I'm rather new to this group... and I can't help thinking this :/J >"With so many references to this person called Alan Erskine, this group'sJ >posts pretty much are pretty much being dominated by this person or aboutI >this person. So should this group be renamed to the Alan Erskine Group?"  >,A >And what's ironic is that it seems to have membes who really areuG >knowledgable about the topic of the group. So.........what went wrong?M >N >Just my 2 canadian cents... >  >Rohit  H There was this Canadian megatroll (JF Mezei*) who for years and years onB end flooded many newsgroups with thousands upon thousands of troll	 messages. I Pleas by newsgroup participants to stop went ignored, the Mezei megatrollk justH trolled on with no end in sight.  Finally, one day a group of people gotF together and decided they had had enough and put an end to it.  One ofI those groups the megatroll trolled/flooded was the one this major nutcaseaF psycho and netstalker Alan Erskine reads.  Alan, who had been secretly9 lusting after Mezei, came out rabbidly in his defense andOC Mezei rejected him in a spectacular manner.  And as you know, "Hell F hath no fury like a woman scorned," or in this case, like a secret gay@ stalker scorned.  So Alan went berserk, and the rest is below...   * Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gateo Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3e (514) 695-8259     About Alan Erskine s   Alan Erskine 8/158 Como Parade West Parkdale, Victoria 3195c	 AUSTRALIAn (03) 9580 7548 <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au>n  J Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and pedophileJ who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theK sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide rangeiK of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing thewK participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authorities1= in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks andeI stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have, 9 notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.   H Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentJ violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking legal action against him.e  G Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasing(F Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusF Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apolo 1 training3 exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.w  E Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaignseJ against other well-known members of the space community, including Richard? Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.   D Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heJ usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingD end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auB immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,J Australia.  This psycho is very, VERY dangerous.  Do not attempt to reasonD with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to+ reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Aug 03 11:22:11 +0200i) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)aB Subject: Windows XP - Was: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer) Message-ID: <$F6ZogaI4RWg@elias.decus.ch>u  i In article <RsQWa.127255$XV.7207184@twister.austin.rr.com>, LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) writes: 7 > Doc.Cypher (Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]) wrote:i > : K > : I've been fiddling with installing XP Pro.  The machine was a build to eG > : order box, so I have a collection of install disks for things like a" > : a cordless rechargeable mouse. > : N > : Now, I must be getting old, because I do remember when computers came withN > : manuals.  Manuals with indices you could find things in.  Nowadays you getP > : a crappy booklet that encourages you to sit at the keyboard and "have a go".N > : All the while there's this little nag box saying register.  Well, I will, N > : when I've finished getting a good install and a #$%&ing backup I can work 	 > : from.u > : L > : Honestly, the stack of CDs that came with the system is thicker than theM > : documentation. It sure ain't "intuitive".  VMS on the other hand... I sat P > : down, read a few pages of a book, stuck the CD in, and had a working system / > : in under an hour, and at the first attempt.  > : 8 > : Microsoft - Making life difficult since Windows 3.1. > : * > My sigmonster thanks you for that entry. > H > Back before the Great Tech Wreck, people asked me why I didn't want toG > work on Windows, and many of them had worked on VMS, so they knew theiJ > difference between the quality of VMS and the crapware shoveled out from! > One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA.  > H > My usual reply was that my blood pressure would get too high having to* > deal with the crapware 100% of the time. > G > It's amazing that the MGMs/PHBs will tolerate anything and everything J > from Microsoft. That situation will NOT change until there is a calamityL > with a large loss of life and property directly attributable to Microsoft.  E A real life example here. Back in 1997 I bought an NT system in orderrJ to learn about it. It wasn't cheap, but thank God I specified a tape driveJ with it. 2 days into the system, I was trying out one of the demo packagesM that came with the graphics card. It trashed my system quite comprehensively.e  F OK, I hadn't figured out ntbackup yet, and saw it as a chance to learnN something by building the system from scratch. It took me 2 days, working fromI 6 am until 10 pm, eating sandwiches rather than proper meals, to get backtF to where I started. Fortunately during that time I could use my laptopJ to climb onto CompuServe and ask for advice, otherwise it would have taken
 a lot longer.t  D Needless to say, I learnt the foibles of ntbackup in no time at all,G and coming from a VMS background, worked out a way to do a full restoree4 without resorting to the installation floppies / CD.  H Thereafter, I was still using 16 bit apps, and for no explicable reason,L that environment would simply fail to work, usually every 3-4 weeks. Nobody,I not even the good guys at www.systinternals.com could tell me why, or how M to sort it out, but using my backup tapes, sanity was less than an hour away.l  G And then I read recently that M$ are so scared of piracy that XP backupRI won't actually back everything up. Instead, you are supposed to reinstallq( from CD. Sorry, not going there again...  0 I am sure that my experience is far from unique.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 00:34:26 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies - Message-ID: <87n0eskoh9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o   Rob.Buxton@wcc.govt.nz writes:  > > And there were probably regional variations.  I recall threeD > ha'penny being used as one and a half pennies.  And from above, 3d: > was generally called a thrup'ny bit. The d became a p at? > decimilisation.  Not to mention tanners, bobs and half-crownsh  @ A tanner here was normally a 10s note as i remember. The 6p coin? was called a `zac' and a 3p, a `trey' or `tray'. 1s was a `bob'y  @ The crown, half crown and guinea had vanished from normal use byC my time. Not even sure if the ever was a guinea note or coin in oz.t   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 00:31:14 +0800e, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Penniesd- Message-ID: <87r844koml.fsf@prep.synonet.com>v  ! Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:i  F > Nope, your memory's fading.  The florin was the 2 shilling piece.  2A > shillings and sixpence was the "half crown" (presumably at some 7 > point there was a 5 shilling piece called the crown).i  H Got 3 here, 2 '37s and a '38. Cost me 0.20c each when I was in school :) (Yes, less than face value!!)k   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.426 ************************