1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 05 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 429       Contents: Re: 30 days from hell  Re: another newbie question  Re: another newbie question 8 Re: another newbie question (Who created this process ?) Re: DEC 3000 M500 CXT error ? G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) G Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) P Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Dates)DaA Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer - Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer + Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer  Re: newbie questions4 Re: newbie questions (Firmware and Quorum Disk/Node) Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates B Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processor Re: Quorom Disk/Node Overhead  Secure POP3 ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha ) Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha & Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Pennies  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Aug 2003 02:42:00 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: 30 days from hell, Message-ID: <bgn5ho02ev4@enews2.newsguy.com>  . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote: > My wife says:   I > I'm not sure that it gained me anything, but it might provide Neil some N > satisfaction:  When the CPUs that run the "strategic" operating system fail,N > stand up every 10 minutes and say loudly, "The VAX is still up."  (or Alpha)  & Been dealing with MS Outlook servers?    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 19:33 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) $ Subject: Re: another newbie question, Message-ID: <4AUG200319331042@gerg.tamu.edu>  ! <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> writes...  }Gentlemen, 6 }I have another question. I have a process that I know5 }is consuming a lot of memory. But how can I find out 6 }the parent that started this process. (I came to know  }that this was indeed the case). } 5 }In UNIX speak, how do I find the PPID given the PID?  }  }Thanks  }  }=====
 }Sincerely }Amit S   A If a process is a subprocess you can find this sort of thing out.    $ Show Process/Sub/Id=x   K will list the tree of what process is a subprocess of what by process name. 9 The process specified by /ID=X will be marked with "(*)".   4 $ Write Sys$Output F$GetJPI("202208E6","MASTER_PID")  K Will directly give you the top level parent process's PID for a subprocess.   @ If the process is not a subprocess, then there is no such thing.  H It isn't something that you normally need to know. WIth VMS each commandI you enter is not run as a separate process like it is in Unix - the image K is activated into the existing process, so when you enter a command it runs G in the currently existing process. Thus if it is just some command that G someone is running, it will be running in the process created when they ? logged in. This is presumably a process owned by their account.   ? You can find out what account name the process is running under > (SHOW PROCESS tells you this) and how long it has been runningC (SHOW PROC/ACCOUNTING includes a "Connect time" field), but you can C not normally find out what process issued the command that resulted # in the creation of another process.   E You may be able to get the desired information from the accounting or G security audit records, but this assumes you have enabled some relevant F logging. Simple "image" class accounting records might be good enough,J ACC/SINCE=x/BEFORE=y/TYPE=IMAGE/FULL where "x" and "y" are used to specifyI a small range of time around when the process was created allowing you to G see who was doing what during this time span - but activating this logs H a rather considerable amount of information (an accounting log entry forE every image activated on the system) that can grow to be unwieldy (or G completely fill all available disk space - which is a very bad thing to E do to your system disk) very quickly. A more targetted approach would G be better. A security related ACL (alarm or audit or both) on the image E causing the problem would be a good way to go. See the documentation.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:39:57 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: another newbie questionL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032139580001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <bgm696$pse9c$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> wrote:  8 >"amit sawhney" <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote in message; >news:20030804150632.11299.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com...  >> John,$ >> It doesn't seem to work that way. >> Here is the output: >> SDA> sh process/id=290A72727 >> Process index: 0272   Name: AMITSHNY   Extended PID:  >> 290A7272 @ >> -------------------------------------------------------------6 >> Process status:          02040001  RES,PHDRES,INTER5 >>         status2:         00000001  QUANTUM_RESCHED  >>3 >> PCB address              8327AE40    JIB address  >>        833531405 >> PHD address              9EB0A000    Swapfile disk  >> address    000000005 >> KTB vector address       8327B12C    HWPCB address  >>        9EB0A0803 >> Callback vector address  00000000    Termination  >> mailbox          0000$ >> Master internal PID      00A70272% >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >> >  >Ooops. @ >I forgot to mention that the top byte may not show up the same.4 >This process is at the top of its own process tree.  J Yes, the Process index, internal PID, and extended PID are related to each other, but different.   B How they are related to each other depends on the VMS version, theJ hardware type, the cluster configuration, the way the system is tuned, andE anything else a nimble-fingered VMS engineer feels like adding to the  game.   H You can (usually) connect these values by looking at the stuff SDA showsH you, but PLEASE don't ever write software that thinks it knows how to doD it.  Such software WILL break at some point in the future.  PIDs are opaque data structures.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:44:32 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: another newbie question (Who created this process ?) L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032144330001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <vxxFaKt2wMTb@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:     > There are C >enough little quirks in the SET AUDIT command that you should read E >the documentation for it in the System Security Manual, not just the  >output of the HELP command.  > This is certainly an understatement.  "Little quirks", indeed.   But it gets the job done.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:06:58 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)& Subject: Re: DEC 3000 M500 CXT error ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032106580001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  0 In article <3F2DE050.D389A2D0@swbell.net>, opcom' <nounwantedmail_eccm@swbell.net> wrote:   I >Well here's a good one for all the hardware wizards.. And I know someone > in this most wise and august group has got to know the answer. > F >This questions' been floating around out here for a long time.. neverI found an answer to this -only unanswered questions going back to 1998! So ; it should be worthy of a challenge, finally put it to rest.  >  >--  > H >Firing up Ye Olde DEC3000-500 (Flamingo/Pelican), the self test is fine except this error:  D The model 500 is a Flamingo.  Pelicans are the 3000-300 family.  TheG 3000-400, -600, and -700 models are the Sandpiper family.  Colletively,  they are the "birds"     >CXT     ?? 000 0064  G Thist is the built-in graphics device.  I think it is equivalent to the  PMAG-BA turbochannel adapter.   I I don't know this specific error.  I have the model 400 service manual at E hand, but unfortunately the built-in graphics is the one thing that's I missing in all but the 500 and 500X models.  So my manual is silent about  your error.     G The TEST CXT command might give a slightly more detailed error message.   : Are you using the serial console, or the graphics console?  4 What is setting of the CONSOLE environment variable?  7 What is the setting of the SERVER environment variable?   7 Is there a monitor connected to the graphics connector?     H I've seen a number of old 3000-500 systems with CXT errors.  They appearG to work, but the error keeps the system from booting automatically when  power is turned on.   I I don't know if this is a design problem that shows up with old age, or a C configuration problem, or a common failure induced by some external 
 influence.    C The CXT can tell if there's a monitor connected, as Stuart noted in C another reply.  Make sure the monitor is connected when you run the  self-tests.      Here's something to try...  H Use a serial console, such as a VT terminal.  Set CONSOLE to serial, andE SERVER to 1.  In this configuration, the firmware might treat the CXT G problem as an informational instead of an error, and auto-boot anyway.  D Sandpipers will ignore a missing keyboard or mouse when SERVER is 1.    I I'll scratch around in piles of old stuff at work and see if I can find a J model 500 manual.  Maybe I can find the precise meaning of the error code.    H >I am trying to get the DEC3000 M500 going for free to give to a new VMSG hobbyist, so any info on what this cryptic error means, and where I can E learn more, would be greatly appreciated. The machine seems to run in  spite of this,H >but I have only just installed VMS, no licences yet etc, so I can't say what it might affect.  > J >I can't find the information on this anywhere, and don't have the manualsJ on the old turbochannel machine. I don't really know what the CXT is! HateH to have to pitch it, it's got a 19" CRT and all. And this guy NEEDS VMS. He's  >using a MAC for goodness sakes!  L Well, I'm typing this note on my Mac.  Fine systems, but not as good as VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:09:20 -0700 - From: dundas@caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)< Message-ID: <dundas-0408031309200001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>   Thord,  D Thanks VERY MUCH for posting this code fragment.  Quite interesting.  ' Let me see if I understand correctly...   
 In articleF <Pine.GSO.4.50.0308032252210.24383-100000@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se>,+ Thord Nilson <thordn@stacken.kth.se> wrote:   & > When running sysgen, to the question( > "Generate monitor ?              #Y #"
 > answer: Y/L   J I'll have to run SYSGEN again to make sure.  Are you saying, answer "L" toI the question rather than "Y", or does Y automatically bring in this code?   I >         BIT     #4000,@#177776          ;      0  32737 "'_ 5 %HX1 \ 65   E This is an interesting instruction.  So 04000 is testing to see which ! register set is currently in use?   I > G12:    WAIT                            ;     12      1 "^A   %  A \  0   D The wait is no problem.  I can see the R0 value in the data display.  D I'll have to take some time and examine the remainder of the code to understand what is happening.   % Thanks.  This should be very helpful.    John   --   John A. Dundas III2 Director, Information Technology Services, Caltech+ Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA  91125-8100 A Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 <mailto:dundas@caltech.edu>    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 13:37:13 -0700 2 From: lee.gleason@halliburton.com (Lee K. Gleason)P Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates)= Message-ID: <a74ee7e6.0308041237.2acc2708@posting.google.com>   C All this console lights talk reminds me of my first 11/70. I'm sure 0 I've posted this before, but, it's been a while.  H   We used an 11/70 to do graphics arts, a long time ago at a now defunctF type house. One day, it halted, and would not boot. The CPU would run,H but the system wouldn't boot, couldn't see the disks apparently. Several5 field service folks came out and were stumped. We had K 7/24 service, so this went on for days, and two levels of escalation...some F very talented and informed DEC people were all coming up empty handed.B My management was going nuts, and the techs were getting extremelyC frustrated. Late at night, several days into it, a junior tech and  D a senior tech were still plugging away at it. The senior guy went toC get coffee, and while he was out, the junior guy, who liked to play C with console programs, toggled in a little routine that rotated the D lights. The senior guy came back in, saw the pattern on the console,A and assuemd the kid had fixed the problem, and that we had booted D up and IAS was running the idle routine, and it was all over! He wasF elated, whooping for joy, until we told him what the kid and done, and  then he was mightilty irritated.   I   Problem was solved two days later...defective massbuss connector on the  RM03.      Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants  lgleason@houston.rr.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:01:25 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> Y Subject: Re: Does RT-11 run on the PDP-11/70?  (was Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Dates)Da 7 Message-ID: <S0zXa.1445$jq.249@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>    John A. Dundas III wrote:  > Thord, > F > Thanks VERY MUCH for posting this code fragment.  Quite interesting. > ) > Let me see if I understand correctly...  >  > In articleH > <Pine.GSO.4.50.0308032252210.24383-100000@gustavskorv.stacken.kth.se>,- > Thord Nilson <thordn@stacken.kth.se> wrote:  >  > & >>When running sysgen, to the question( >>"Generate monitor ?              #Y #"
 >>answer: Y/L  >  > L > I'll have to run SYSGEN again to make sure.  Are you saying, answer "L" toK > the question rather than "Y", or does Y automatically bring in this code?  > A I think he means typing the three characters 'Y/L' at the prompt. < Several places allow a switch to the value to enable/disable "secret" options.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 15:41:01 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) J Subject: Re: Ease of use (was: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer3 Message-ID: <Lq94g3ydlBdB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <20030804170951.41d1d46b.itsme@127.0.0.1>, Roland Barmettler <itsme@127.0.0.1> writes: 1 > Bob Koehler wrote on 4 Aug 2003 09:37:27 -0500:  >>  G >>    When had OS 9 on my "Beige G3" I set it to answer to "computer".   >>    D >>    I'm waiting for Apple to make the OS X speakable items work asG >>    well. In the meantime I still drive my PC support folks up a wall $ >>    by letting my Mac speak to me. > ? > As far as I know, it's working fine at least since OS X 10.2. G > Well, at least it worked for me OK...  but I'm not using it a lot ;-)   A    I couldn't find the setting to get it to listen after a verbal C    address (i.e. "hello computer"), only the one for getting it to      listen after pressing a key.   B    What's the point of pressing a key?  If I have to reach for the*    keyboard I might as well use the thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:16:00 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: Help adding a larger drive to Alphaserver' Message-ID: <3F2F1360.ECE1A9BA@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > T > In article <rRqdncBIy_vb2bCiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>, "m68k" <m68k@comcast.net> writes:B > > THX. I will grab an 8-10gb SCSI drive from eBAY for the Alpha. > > L > > I have been working with VMS for about two weeks now (mainly install andO > > configuration). The biggest learning curve from Unix/Linux to VMS so far is + > > file handling and the absence of pipes.  > 6 >    You will find pipes documented under "help pipe".  C ...but the implementation is a bit different. The VMS equivalent of F stderr cannot be redirected by 2>..., input cannot be redirected usingF "<", and ">>" cannot be used to append to an existing file (at, least,G it doesn't work for me on V7.3-1). The following sequence would emulate   some of those features, however:   $ PIPE -% 	(DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT LOGIN.COM ; -  	TYPE SYS$INPUT) | -- 	(DEFINE/USER SYS$ERRROR SEARCH_ERROR.LIS ; -  	SEARCH SYS$PIPE "SET DEF")    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 23:31:09 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer0 Message-ID: <00A23E47.6E97151A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <bgm696$pse9c$2@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: {...snip...}K >> How do you configure that?  I run IE and enter: file://C: and all I ever K >> get is icons.  The "preferrences" in the _F_ile menu is always gray (I'm C >> told this means if cannot be selected and, of course, I cannot).  >> --  > " >Simple, but not wholly intuitive.H >Even if it has been renamed, you _must_ somethere on your screen have a >(cringe) 'My Computer' icon. L >Find it, then (assuming you are not using a left hand mouse) RIGHT click on
 >the icon.+ >In the menu that appears select 'explore'. , >You are now in the 'real' windows explorer.1 >in the 'view' menu click on the 'details' entry.   ? Left click, right click, CTRL-click, shift-click, ALT-click,...    Where is the intuitive?      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:10:55 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer' Message-ID: <3F2EF60F.61E3006E@fsi.net>    GreyCloud wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >  > > John Smith wrote:  > > > 5 > > > "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message ( > > > news:3F2C2383.12F42F8A@mist.com... > > > > leslie wrote: 	 > > > > > 2 > > > > > My sigmonster thanks you for that entry.	 > > > > > H > > > > > Back before the Great Tech Wreck, people asked me why I didn't
 > > > want to K > > > > > work on Windows, and many of them had worked on VMS, so they knew 	 > > > the I > > > > > difference between the quality of VMS and the crapware shoveled  > > > out from) > > > > > One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA. 	 > > > > > F > > > > > My usual reply was that my blood pressure would get too high > > > having to 2 > > > > > deal with the crapware 100% of the time.	 > > > > >  > > > > = > > > > I think that was the cause of my High blood pressure. B > > > > Everything worked well and was easily predictable with VMS% > > > > programming.  Not so with M$.  > > > 1 > > > VMS - Let's you sleep nights and stay calm.  > > > # > > > sorry Maxwell House coffee...  > > L > > I recently saw an ad referring to M$ Exchange as a warm, comfortable ...L > > something, can't quite recall what - just remember the reference to warmK > > fuzzies. I wanted to find the idiot author and find out what he was on,  > > and where I could get some.  > >  > > > You don't suppose that these new ads about ADDL has anything; > to do with M$?  Then Paxil or Xanax is probably what he's  > on.   " ADDL'd? Yeah - I'd believe that...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 19:45 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer, Message-ID: <4AUG200319450253@gerg.tamu.edu>  $ VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes...V }In article <+hcIxEp8ceeq@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:R }>In article <3F2D47C7.8040902@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: }>> Paul Sture wrote:  }>>> This _should_ be easy.  }>>>   }>>> If you have:  }>>>   }>>> a.txt b.txt c.txt d.txt }>>>  G }>>> Click on a.txt and hold shift down whilst clicking on c.txt and it % }>>> will select a.txt, b.txt, c.txt.  }>>>  & }>>> Only want a.txt, c.txt and d.txt? }>>>  E }>>> Click on a.txt, hold down CTRL then click on c.txt then click on  }>>> d.txt.  }>>  }>> Assume what he had was:  }>>  }>> a.jpg   f.jpg   k.jpg  }>> b.jpg   g.jpg   l.jpg  }>> c.jpg   h.jpg   m.jpg  }>> d.jpg   i.jpg   n.mpg  }>> e.jpg   j.jpg   o.jpg  }>> I }>> And he wanted to select b.jpg to n.jpg inclusive. If he clicks b.jpg, I }>> then SHIFT-click n.jpg, he'll get b,c,d,g,h,i,l,m, and n- leaving out K }>> e,f,j, and k. That's the way Windows "works" when dealing with multiple  }>> columns of files.  }>>  }>G }>Aha, the light dawns. About the first job I do to a Windows system is I }>to switch Explorer to List view, so I get 1 column, plus the file sizes  }>and dates. }  } I }How do you configure that?  I run IE and enter: file://C: and all I ever I }get is icons.  The "preferrences" in the _F_ile menu is always gray (I'm B }told this means if cannot be selected and, of course, I cannot).  }-- P }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  ) Why, exactly, would you use IE for this?    F Use "E" (so to speak), just plain "Explorer", not "IE". Two completelyN different programs. As in "double-click on My Computer not Internet Explorer".M Of course that gives you a rather icky view of the thing under older versions N of Windows. You're better off right clicking that icon and selecting "Explore"L off the menu. (On 200 and XP they are the pretty much the same thing - thereN is a "Folders" icon on the menu bar that switched between the two appearances.H I think the only difference then is whether or not the left side pane of0 folders is displayed when you first fire it up.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 20:22 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer, Message-ID: <4AUG200320225456@gerg.tamu.edu>  $ VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes...e }In article <bgm696$pse9c$2@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: 
 }{...snip...} L }>> How do you configure that?  I run IE and enter: file://C: and all I everL }>> get is icons.  The "preferrences" in the _F_ile menu is always gray (I'mD }>> told this means if cannot be selected and, of course, I cannot). }>> -- }># }>Simple, but not wholly intuitive. I }>Even if it has been renamed, you _must_ somethere on your screen have a  }>(cringe) 'My Computer' icon.M }>Find it, then (assuming you are not using a left hand mouse) RIGHT click on  }>the icon. , }>In the menu that appears select 'explore'.- }>You are now in the 'real' windows explorer. 2 }>in the 'view' menu click on the 'details' entry. } @ }Left click, right click, CTRL-click, shift-click, ALT-click,... }  }Where is the intuitive? }  }-- P }VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM   It's all over the place.  F The intuitive thing for people to do is to click on stuff, right clickE on stuff, and so on. You know, explore thier environment. Exploration D of one's environment is highly intuitive. Almost everybody does it - just watch a child some time.   F If you don't do this, either you are afraid of your computer (a lot ofD people fall into this category - unfortunately with Windows this canD be a learned behavior since it is possible to screw it up badly justD from fiddling around with the thing a little) or you are acting in a! strange and non-intuitive manner.   B Note that all of the above instructions on running Explorer can beC shortened to "use the My Computer icon in the usual way - by double B clicking on it", except that in most versions of Windows this doesB not give you the most usefull form of Explorer's interface. To getD the most useful form you need to select the "Explore" option off theF context menu (that you get from right clicking on the icon) instead ofJ the default "Open" action, thus the (trivially) more complex instructions.  K If you think Windows is bad in this way, you've obviously never used a Mac. I Its one button mouse makes the use of various keyboard keys in conjuntion ? with clicking that one button even more common than on Windows.   L Learning a few simple actions like "CTRL-click" is easier than learning DCL.H This is mostly because there is a lot less to learn - there are probablyK not more than 3 buttons on your mouse and there are only 3 generally useful K modifier keys on a PC keyboard (CTRL, ALT, and SHIFT) which leaves you with H at most 24 possibilities of a mouse button + 1 or more keys. Most of theG possible combinations don't do anything in Windows or other MS software G (if you have a middle button, it is used for very few things - the only H thing I can think of is that it places a control point in IE that allowsH you to scroll two dimensionally across a page my moving the pointer awayK from the control point in the direction you want to scroll, with scrolling  I speed proportional to distance from the point). Within Windows the usages F are pretty much consistent - although 3rd party applications sometimes change what these things do.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 01:32:36 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer( Message-ID: <bgn1fk$9jb$1@pcls4.std.com>  + p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:   H >And you've just jogged my memory there. Win98 comes out of the box withL >the file types hidden, and IIRC files with the hidden and system attributes, >too. I routinely change those settings too.  I How do you do that (change all those hidden/system files to normal on W98 J by running a command file?)  I can't believe the crap that Billy is trying to hide from us! --   -Mike    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:05:39 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer' Message-ID: <3F2F10F3.EA6FB801@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > W > In article <+hcIxEp8ceeq@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: S > >In article <3F2D47C7.8040902@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:  > >> Paul Sture wrote: > >>> This _should_ be easy. > >>>  > >>> If you have: > >>>  > >>> a.txt b.txt c.txt d.txt  > >>> H > >>> Click on a.txt and hold shift down whilst clicking on c.txt and it& > >>> will select a.txt, b.txt, c.txt. > >>> ' > >>> Only want a.txt, c.txt and d.txt?  > >>> F > >>> Click on a.txt, hold down CTRL then click on c.txt then click on > >>> d.txt. > >> > >> Assume what he had was: > >> > >> a.jpg   f.jpg   k.jpg > >> b.jpg   g.jpg   l.jpg > >> c.jpg   h.jpg   m.jpg > >> d.jpg   i.jpg   n.mpg > >> e.jpg   j.jpg   o.jpg > >>J > >> And he wanted to select b.jpg to n.jpg inclusive. If he clicks b.jpg,J > >> then SHIFT-click n.jpg, he'll get b,c,d,g,h,i,l,m, and n- leaving outL > >> e,f,j, and k. That's the way Windows "works" when dealing with multiple > >> columns of files. > >> > > H > >Aha, the light dawns. About the first job I do to a Windows system isJ > >to switch Explorer to List view, so I get 1 column, plus the file sizes
 > >and dates.  > ' > How do you configure that?  I run IE     AH! The light dawns brighter...   0 Run WhineBloze Exploder, not Interhose Exploder.   How?  ; Right-click on the Start button, select the Explore option.    Now *THAT*'s intuitive, eh? ;-)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 21:46:25 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer3 Message-ID: <QgZmUfAdkqA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4AUG200320225456@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:  M > If you think Windows is bad in this way, you've obviously never used a Mac. K > Its one button mouse makes the use of various keyboard keys in conjuntion A > with clicking that one button even more common than on Windows.   E I use a Macintosh every day, and I _never_ press a key in conjunction E with a mouse click.  There are plenty of times where I will press the E mouse button and hold it down to get a contextual menu.  Dragging the G cursor to my menu choice and releasing accomplishes the action that was  spelled out for me.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 22:06 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer, Message-ID: <4AUG200322065423@gerg.tamu.edu>  ; moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes... , }p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:I }>And you've just jogged my memory there. Win98 comes out of the box with M }>the file types hidden, and IIRC files with the hidden and system attributes - }>too. I routinely change those settings too.  } J }How do you do that (change all those hidden/system files to normal on W98K }by running a command file?)  I can't believe the crap that Billy is trying  }to hide from us!  }--  }-Mike  A Run the Explorer - you know, that thing you use to see the files. A Any mode, so just double clicking My Computer is fine. Notice how B there is a menu bar. Look through the menus and see what is there.B Select the item called "Options" (I didn't use 98 and earlier muchA so it may be called something else along those lines). The window G this opens is probably a paged display with a tab control for selecting G the page. The tabs probably include one that lets you view and set what J file types are associated with what program, and another one one, probablyG the one it initially opens up showing, has a list of options. Somehwere E in there there should be a place to select a "Show hidden file types" @ option or something along those lines - in some versions you mayD have to deselect a "Hide hidden file types" instead. There are also F options for controlling whether or not the file extension is displayedE with the file name, and various other things. Most of them are pretty  obvious as to what they do.   A Dosn't anybody ever actually look at stuff anymore? You know - do G something like what the name of the program in this particular instance D is? Be an explorer? Anybody? (Other than me, I mean.) All this stuffG is in there, and it is not hidden from you - all you have to do is just J look around. Sure there are some things that are convoluted and/or burriedC multiple levels down in places you'd not expect it to be, and other H things that you just can't change at all - but there are a lot of thingsG that are easy to change. So change them, if you want to - but the first H step is to actually look at the thing to find out what is right there inI front of you so that you know what is easy to change. Spend a few seconds J to see what is on those menus on the menu bar. If one of them is "Options"F or "Settings" then click on it and see what your options are. It's notF difficult to do and it usually only takes a few seconds to look. WhileI you are at it, try right clicking on things to see what is on the context D menu. How much time did it take for you to learn how to use VMS? NowG how much time have you spent learning how to use Windows? It's probably F a lot less (athough probably a larger percentage of time wasted tryingE to do things the hard way or being irritated at how it works whithout D ever looking to see if you can change it). You were willing to spendG hours reading the VMS manuals - are you not willing to sepnd 30 seconds G looking at the menu items that are right in front of you every time youoG use Windows? The simple fact is that you will probably use Windows manyeH times in the future. You may as well learn a little about it. It'll save( you much frustration and some time, too.  G The default settings in most things Windows are such that everything is1E "simplified". This also equates to things being set to be less usefulPF than many professional computer geeks would prefer, and sometimes justG downright stupid. They hide things from you and sometimes don't display F all the available controls. But you can frequently change the settingsG or run the program in a way that it becomes much better to use than thes default configuration.  H Are any directories on your VMS system protected so that the users can'tK see what is in them? If so, then you are just like "Billy" in this respect,  are you not?   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:27:44 -0500d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer' Message-ID: <3F2F2430.9FCA9A1B@fsi.net>t   Michael Moroney wrote: > - > p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:P > J > >And you've just jogged my memory there. Win98 comes out of the box withN > >the file types hidden, and IIRC files with the hidden and system attributes. > >too. I routinely change those settings too. > K > How do you do that (change all those hidden/system files to normal on W98fL > by running a command file?)  I can't believe the crap that Billy is trying > to hide from us!  C Well, to do it in a .BAT file, you may have to dig up an old MS-DOS-H command reference manual and look up the FOR verb. I don't have a testedB example handy, but in the MS-DOS V5 book it looks a bit like this:  $ for %%f in (*.*) attrib -r -s -h %%f  D Of course, recursing directory trees is another question entirely...   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 04:30:17 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)a4 Subject: Re: Idiot (I know that's redundant) spammer( Message-ID: <bgnbsp$426$1@pcls4.std.com>  ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:s  < >moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes... >} hK >}How do you do that (change all those hidden/system files to normal on W98tL >}by running a command file?)  I can't believe the crap that Billy is trying >}to hide from us!  B >Run the Explorer - you know, that thing you use to see the files.B >Any mode, so just double clicking My Computer is fine. Notice howC >there is a menu bar. Look through the menus and see what is there.f ...h  B >Dosn't anybody ever actually look at stuff anymore? You know - doH >something like what the name of the program in this particular instance [snip rest of flame]  E I asked the question incorrectly.  I meant the _really hidden_ files.RD Before you ask me if I've seen black helicoptors hanging around, tryD this (Win98):  Set Explorer to display hidden and system files, then* view C:\WINDOWS\Temporary Internet Files .I You'll see lots of crap, but one folder you won't see is something callede. content.IE5.  But you can set explorer to viewF C:\WINDOWS\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5 and see files in that  folder. WTF?  I Also windows is intermittent whether it will display files in +s folders.r -- g -Mikel   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:20:13 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: newbie questionseL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032120140001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  @ In article <20030804083127.37580.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>,> =?iso-8859-1?q?amit=20sawhney?= <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote:   >Hi all,4 >I have some VMS knowledge on standalone m/c s. Been$ >going through the clustering docs. + >Q: What is "firmware" and what is a quorums
 >server/disk?m   What is a "m/c s"?    G Firmware is software that's part of the hardware.  :-)  At least that'se6 the way it appears to an OS or application programmer.  I On a VAX or Alpha system, the firmware does things like power-on tests of J the hardware, initialize and configure the hardware, and perform the firstD steps of booting the operating system.  Basically, the firmware sitsD between the OS and the hardware and hides some of the details of the	 hardware.     J A Quorum Disk can be used by the VMS clustering software to provide one orJ more "votes" to a VMS cluster.  If there are enough votes, the cluster hasJ a "quorum" and operation proceeds normally.  If there is no quorum, normal@ system operation is suspended until more votes become available.  H In most VMS clusters, the votes are provided by VMS systems.  In certainG configurations, having a disk that can vote (a quorum disk) can provide)B more availability if a voting system fails and leaves the cluster.  I A quorum disk is really only useful in one configuration that I know of: 1A a 2-system cluster with the quorum disk directly attached to both G systems.  This configuration can continue working as long as any two of:@ the three components (2 systems plus 1 quorum disk) are working.  C Look at the "Guidelines for OpenVMS Cluster Configurations" and thehE "OpenVMS Clusters" manuals.  (There might be slight variations in thedI names, depending on VMS version.)  The rules for configuring clusters are-J not really complicated, but the manuals do a much better job of explaining than I can.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:39:15 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: newbie questions (Firmware and Quorum Disk/Node) ' Message-ID: <3F2F18D3.C7A0672E@fsi.net>W   Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > In article <20030804083127.37580.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?amit=20sawhney?= <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> writes: > > Hi all,^7 > > I have some VMS knowledge on standalone m/c s. Beena& > > going through the clustering docs.. > > Q: What is "firmware" and what is a quorum > > server/disk? > J > Firmware is microcode that must be loaded into certain hardware devices.F > It comes up for discussion most frequently when the currently loadedM > firmware has defects and a newer version must be loaded.  In this newsgroup,K > the term is sometimes misused to describe the Console and PALcode used on K > Alpha processors to simulate a hardware console and certain instructions.sK > In fact, the Console and PALcode are Alpha machine code rather than beingo > microcode. > L > A quorum node or quorum disk is a tie-breaking mechanism that can be addedJ > to small clusters with even numbers of nodes (in particular, 2 nodes) toL > distinguish node failures from a partitioning of the cluster.  Quorum nodeH > or quorum disk usage in a two node cluster ensure the cluster can keep" > running when one node goes down.  H ...and just to clarify Larry's excellent explanation, yes, "quorum" is a< cluster concept: stand-alone systems have no need of quorum.   -- t David J. DachteraT dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Aug 2003 15:38:47 -07003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>-$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates0 Message-ID: <qh7k5tkpzc.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  0 Glenn Everhart <Everhart-nospam@gce.com> writes:F > People who wanted to use BASIC in those days often found ways to getH > to a pdp10 terminal. That's one reason Bill Gates transliterated pdp10C > BASIC (listings were readily available from DEC back then) as then
 > story goes.a   I wrote:K > Seems unlikely, as the details of the commands and functions of MicrosofttE > BASIC were substantially different than BASIC-10.  Is the source tonM > BASIC-10 online somewhere?  I've got source to a version of Microsoft BASICo > and could compare it.w  " inwap@inwap.com (Joe Smith) wrote:F > http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/basic17f/  BASICL.MAC and BASICH.MAC  L I just looked it over, and there's not even the slightest similarity between> the DEC BASIC source code and the Microsoft BASIC source code.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:10:10 -0500C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>sK Subject: Re: PR: HP Delivers Next Step on AlphaServer Roadmap: 32-processor & Message-ID: <3F2EF5E2.DA74F40@fsi.net>   jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:37:33 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"c  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >bF > >EVA is still too immature for our environment (healthcare, Cerner). > >[...]K > >Not my decision. Lotta folks upstream to get on board with it first (FDAo  > >not being the least of them). > M > I do believe that we have Cerner customers running OpenVMS, and using EVA +i% > Business Copy EVA (i.e., snapshot).  > L > And, yes, it can be done from a batch job (either with Business Copy - aka, > EVM - client tools, or with SSSU scripts).  < That leaves the certification and the automation examples...   -- i David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:05:30 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)n& Subject: Re: Quorom Disk/Node Overhead1 Message-ID: <KfxXa.1380$kI1.373@news.cpqcorp.net>   h In article <f936a854.0307310611.7f86a438@posting.google.com>, robert_kersey@bat.com (Rob Kersey) writes:N :Does a quorom disk produce much more overhead than an individual quorum node?  G   That depends on what question you had intended to ask, but -- at its aF   simplest -- the overhead of either approach is neglible and thus theB   difference in overhead between the two schemes is arguably moot.  F   If you are close enough to the performance margins that your clusterG   configuration notices another cluster member node (voting) or noticesfI   the (trivial) quorum I/O overhead, your configuration has other issues.m  O :What are the disadvantages of using a quorom disk as opposed to a quorom node?   C   Slower cluster transition speeds and exposure to spindle failureseC   are two of the most common disadvantages of the quorum disk.  YounE   will also require a shared interconnect, obviously.  (See the FAQ.)o  (   What is the problem you seek to solve?     How many nodes are involved?  $   Do you have a shared interconnect?  &   Which OpenVMS version(s) are in use?  E   Have you seen the discussions in the OpenVMS FAQ?  (Start there, ifm	   not.)  a  B   Particularly avoid any "creative" settings of the VOTES and the D   EXPECTED_VOTES parameters, too -- the FAQ goes into some detail onE   the dangers of removing these "blade guards", and the risks to yoursE   data of these so-called "creative" (and invalid) settings for these    system parameters.  D   Also please visit the newsgroup archives, as this is not the first"   time this discussion has arisen.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faqsN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:40:13 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Secure POP34 Message-ID: <hhBXa.99978$2j1.1388790@news.chello.at>  % Has anyone already tried Secure POP ?u  , I tried it with STUNNEL today and it worked.H I tried it also with TCPIP 5.4 beta (which has SSH and secure POP as newH features) and it also worked but required to install 2 images (and start SSL) before the TCPIP startup.  M As you might know, I start TCPIP currently in the SYSMAN CONFIG Phase because I of the DHCP client, this gives another challenge (starting SSL and a selfeI created command file which installs the 2 required SSL shared images) for6 unsupported startup again.   <RANT>E Why can't TCPIP not start/install the components it requires itself ?  </RANT>e  5 What do you think ? Should I bother UCX engineering ?D   -- 1 Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2003 12:40:19 -0500h- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha3 Message-ID: <ltoc8b3wbLtj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <bgm0ds$jqg$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes:  H > I have some quite evil methods in forcing people to use system managerG > designated access methods to storage (and other items) but we'll skipCE > the BOFH lesson now. Most experienced people here could work it out  > anyway :->  F It was easier in the good old days, but plugging in Storageworks disksJ involves hardware not designed for the duty cycles of the good old Massbus unit number plugs.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 19:28:32 -0500% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>e2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha; Message-ID: <6QCXa.77173$6a3.2021968@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   H Well, If you are not interested in changing the application startup textL file (xxxxx.COM) that was designed to be modified easily to make these kindsL of configuration changes.  Why are you more willing to change the OS startupJ script to re-define the mounted disk device?  Either way, you are starting. your editor and changing a logical definition.  H I would do a search of the startup script looking for these definitions.9 This should show you exactly what needs to be re-defined. 7 SET DEF [{directory where the startup file is located}]  SEARCH {filename}.COM  DKB; This should list for you the lines that need to be changed.m  H If the develper where smart, there should be something at the top of the) startup file that is something like this.  App_disk :== DKB100  data_disk :== DKB200K Some sort of definition for the rest of the program to tell them what these.C disks are.  Other wise you are looking for all instances of DKB and  replacing it with DKA.    K If you really want to make DKA into DKB, then you will need to shutdown the E system, and add another SCSI card into the PCI bus before the currente adapter.L Your device designation on the SCSI device is defined by the slot in the PCIF bus that it is plugged into, and the other devices that are in the bus
 before it.    < Phil Pulley <phil.pulley@astrium-space.com> wrote in message6 news:90004509.0308040719.62c0708@posting.google.com...7 > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in messagev# news:<bglcd3$ddc$1@lore.csc.com>...s > > Phil Pulley wrote: > > >wG > > > I am a newcomer to OpenVMS systems and am currently configuring 2e: > > > Alphastation XP900's to host some specific software. > > >aJ > > > In order for the software to run the disk devices it uses need to beK > > > configured 'DKB100' and 'DKB200'(I can't change this without changinge6 > > > baselined config files which I don't want to do)	 > > > ... J > > > I am reading the manuals currently to try and find a way forward but" > > > would appreciate any advice. > >i# > > Yes. DON'T use DKxn00 ANYTHING!a > >n. > > Sorry for shouting, but just do not do it. > >eL > > When you mount the disks, they have labels, volume names, e.g. SYSTEM or	 > > USER.d > >sE > > Logical names are defined when the disks are mounted (they can mep > > overridden at mount time). > >o$ > > e.g. DISK$SYSTEM: and DISK$USER: > >WJ > > I put those colons in to illustrate you can use them as any device. IfB > > DKA100 was mounted with the label SYSTEM, then DISK$SYSTEM: is > > equivalent to DKA100.6 > >0L > > Now, if for whatever reason that disk moved to DKB100, it would STILL be > > called DISK$SYSTEM > >eI > > If your requirements changed, and you wanted to use host based volume I > > shadowing (mirroring under operating system control) you would not bewK > > able to use DK anything, yet the volume label DISK$SYSTEM would remain.  > > H > > All this means, you code the DISK$SYSTEM or DISK$USER labels ONCE in% > > your application, then forget it.i > >rI > > There are other methods, you can create your own supplementary volumepF > > labels which either draw from the DISK$ logicals, or if absolutelyA > > necessary (but with more potential messing about) use a lower 3 > > representation', like DSA5: or $1$DKA300: or...  > >eK > > I hope you listen to this advice, as someone that has oft had to fiddleeG > > with systems with multiple layers of logical names pointing to longlL > > retired physical devices several upgrades deep, you can either make your > > life easy or difficult.) > > H > > You could quite easily dig yourself into this hole right now, simplyJ > > define DKB100 to point at DKA100 at a system/exec level. Of course, ifE > > you go on to add a controller, you're in for a rough ride. Do youoI > > replace the redefinitions for the non existent controller for another L > > non existant controller, move the original disks onto the new controllerL > > and add the new disk to the old controller. You're making life difficult > > for yourself.2 > >nK > > I would now advise familiarizing yourself with the user environment and I > > logical names. Users can be guided out of bad practice by good system K > > management processes. System managers with little or no user experience L > > should study the manuals / documentation and come here for advice, and I6 > > hope you don't think I've been too rough with you. > >nH > > A question for you now, why don't you want to change the base config > > files, what is the problem?i >y > Thanks for the advice.D > To answer your question - the software application is a legacy one2 > which has only just been modified & re-released.C > The application is launched via a .com file which defines logicali" > names for the disk devices used.H > The problem is that, as this file is part of the baselined applicationD > source, it cannot be readily altered to accommodate different host > hardware.W8 > Very bad practice & inconvenient but that's how it is!G > I don't want to change the baseline as that would cause a lot of QA &m% > versioning /documentation problems.i >tC > In the circumstances (legacy application, limited lifetime, small D > number of hosts all standalone, no possibility of additional hostsE > etc. etc.) it seems that digging myself into the hole you mentionedcB > and defining dkb100 as dka100 via a logical name is the best wayC > forward - for some reason I had convinced myself that it wouldn't  > work.u >rG > Your suggestion of using the automatically assigned logical names forpB > disk volumes (disk$...)is obviously the best solution if we wereG > changing the application - I will bear it in mind should that happen.  >f@ > FYI we do not use VMS nowadays and there is no in-house systemG > management expertise or even a user base - so I just got lumbered and  > have to make the best of it!+ > Hence my dumb questions to the newsgroup.g >  >  > Thanks again.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:24:44 -0400w2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on AlphaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032124450001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <visrpqqgm9vl12@news.supernews.com>, "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com> wrote:   >Phil  >r	 >Try this  >E >>>>set os_type Unix >set boot_osflags 0,0h >,F >This may change the naming convention of the devices to make the DQAx. >devices become DKA and then a SCSI controller >should be DKBxx >  >David  & Well, that leaves me utterly confused.  ; VMS does not ever look at the OS_TYPE environment variable.d  E And anything that made VMS confuse a DQ (IDE) device with a DK (SCSI)   would fail rather spectacularly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:32:08 -0400l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on AlphaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0408032132090001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <90004509.0308040130.671317f6@posting.google.com>,12 phil.pulley@astrium-space.com (Phil Pulley) wrote:    F >My question is... is there an easy way to change the device naming to4 >make DKA100 become DKB100 and DKA200 become DKB200?B >Making all the SCSI devices use 'B' instead of 'A' in their names
 >would be OK.TC >(I guess I could always buy an additional SCSI controller for eachtD >system but that seems an unnecessary expense as all my SCSI devices >will fit on one channel)i   In a word, No.  G Both the console firmware and the VMS operating system assign the first>G SCSI channel letter "A", the second one letter "B", and so on up to theoI 26th channel, which is "Z".  On XP900/DS10 systems, both the firmware andpJ the OS probe for devices in the same order, so both layers assign the same# names to a particular SCSI channel.   E The disks get names based on the letter assigned to the SCSI channel.h  G So if you only have 1 SCSI channel, the adapter will be PKA0, the disksdE will be DKAxxx, and the tapes will be MKAxxx.  You can't change that.     I Your best approach would be to fix the application startup files to refersF to logical names like DISK$FOO, and then the app will never care about physical device names again.  G If you don't want to do that, you can probably paper over the immediate * problem by making logical names like this:  ' $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE DKB100 DKA100h@ (perhaps with /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES=CONCEALED and/or TERMINAL)  O But as others have said, this will likely lead to more confusion down the road.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:04:55 -0400) From: "David @ Island" <david-@-hpaq.net> 2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha/ Message-ID: <viu44nt5jbh042@news.supernews.com>t   Oh... 7 Well no doubt that applies to newer Alpha systems then.fI When using a PWS, if you change the OS_type from Unix to OVMS, it deletesi the IDE controller PQAxgK I guess that was changed when IDE Boot support was introduced into the SRM.i   dt    ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagewF news:rdeininger-0408032132090001@user-105n8h0.dialup.mindspring.com...? > In article <90004509.0308040130.671317f6@posting.google.com>,)4 > phil.pulley@astrium-space.com (Phil Pulley) wrote: >  > H > >My question is... is there an easy way to change the device naming to6 > >make DKA100 become DKB100 and DKA200 become DKB200?D > >Making all the SCSI devices use 'B' instead of 'A' in their names > >would be OK.$E > >(I guess I could always buy an additional SCSI controller for eachmF > >system but that seems an unnecessary expense as all my SCSI devices > >will fit on one channel)v >  > In a word, No. >eI > Both the console firmware and the VMS operating system assign the first I > SCSI channel letter "A", the second one letter "B", and so on up to the K > 26th channel, which is "Z".  On XP900/DS10 systems, both the firmware andnL > the OS probe for devices in the same order, so both layers assign the same% > names to a particular SCSI channel.R >TG > The disks get names based on the letter assigned to the SCSI channel.> > I > So if you only have 1 SCSI channel, the adapter will be PKA0, the disks G > will be DKAxxx, and the tapes will be MKAxxx.  You can't change that.A >c >kK > Your best approach would be to fix the application startup files to referiH > to logical names like DISK$FOO, and then the app will never care about > physical device names again. >eI > If you don't want to do that, you can probably paper over the immediatep, > problem by making logical names like this: >v) > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE DKB100 DKA100oB > (perhaps with /TRANSLATION_ATTRIBUTES=CONCEALED and/or TERMINAL) >iK > But as others have said, this will likely lead to more confusion down they road.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 22:15:21 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Specifying disk device names on Alpha' Message-ID: <3F2F2149.A276A253@fsi.net>l   Phil Pulley wrote: > [ > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<bglcd3$ddc$1@lore.csc.com>...u
 > > [snip]H > > A question for you now, why don't you want to change the base config > > files, what is the problem?r >  > Thanks for the advice.D > To answer your question - the software application is a legacy one2 > which has only just been modified & re-released.C > The application is launched via a .com file which defines logicall" > names for the disk devices used.H > The problem is that, as this file is part of the baselined application
 > source,    In that case, you're hosed.k  < > it cannot be readily altered to accommodate different host > hardware.n  ? No alternative. Disk device names are *VERY* host-configuration 	 specific.n  8 > Very bad practice & inconvenient but that's how it is!  
 You're hosed.b  G > I don't want to change the baseline as that would cause a lot of QA &e% > versioning /documentation problems.T  F Best to get past it once and for all, then you won't have to deal with	 it again.n  D The only hope you have is to use /EXECUTIVE mode system-wide logicalE names DKB100 and DKA100 and hope to God they don't conflict with realsG device names in a given configuration (which is very likely to happen).s  D Again, unless you can change the "baselined" (misnomer in this case,B actually - hard to imagine device names being "baselined"), you're hosed.  G I'm also curious as to how this fogures into your documentation, or was ; the development team, really that..., well, don't go there.s  C > In the circumstances (legacy application, limited lifetime, smallnD > number of hosts all standalone, no possibility of additional hostsE > etc. etc.) it seems that digging myself into the hole you mentionedcB > and defining dkb100 as dka100 via a logical name is the best wayC > forward - for some reason I had convinced myself that it wouldn't( > work.e   Can't imagine why, but...t  G > Your suggestion of using the automatically assigned logical names foriB > disk volumes (disk$...)is obviously the best solution if we wereG > changing the application - I will bear it in mind should that happen.o  D Well, you're not changing the application - you're only changing the> device naming so it is not local to a given, specific hardwareC configuration. You're actually getting yourself OUT of trouble, not0F into. You're already in deeper than you know how to get out of, that's% why you came here in the first place.d  H Make *VERY* *CERTAIN* you understand this: not changing those names is a? non-option. Bite the bullet - do it *NOW* and get it over with!   @ > FYI we do not use VMS nowadays and there is no in-house systemG > management expertise or even a user base - so I just got lumbered and  > have to make the best of it!+ > Hence my dumb questions to the newsgroup.   F Not dumb, really. Many seasoned vet.'s miss small tips and tricks likeD this. Some ISVs went under because they couldn't (or wouldn't) grasp these simple concepts.  H For example, in a small stand-alone Alpha configuration, or even a largeD clustered one, where there are no devices naturally named DKA100 andC DKB100, you could do this before invoking your application-specificg
 startup code:   ) $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DGA1532 APPVOL_1 DKA100 ) $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DGA1429 APPVOL_2 DKB100   E That last parameter becomes the "logical volume name" - a system-wide : logical that will disappear when the device is DISMOUNTed.   Some other examples:  ; $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA21/SHADOW=(DKC220,DKD220) APPVOL_1 DKA100t; $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA22/SHADOW=(DKC120,DKD120) APPVOL_2 DKB100a  4 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA21/SHADOW=(DKC220,DKD220) APPVOL_14 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM DSA22/SHADOW=(DKC120,DKD120) APPVOL_2; $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKA100 DSA21:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL)e; $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKB100 DSA22:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL)   ' $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DUA53 APPVOL_1 DKA100.' $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DUA42 APPVOL_2 DKB100o  ! $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DUA53 APPVOL_1  ! $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DUA42 APPVOL_2  > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKA100 $1$DUA53:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL)> $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKB100 $1$DUA42:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL)    $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DGA2276 APPVOL1 $ LD CONNECT DISK$APPVOL:[MYAPP]APPVOL_1.ODS LDA1m1 $ LD CONNECT DISK$APPVOL:[MYAPP]APPVOL_2.ODS LDA2:# $ MOUNT/SYSTEM LDA1 APPVOL_1 DKA100s# $ MOUNT/SYSTEM LDA2 APPVOL_2 DKB100n    $ MOUNT/SYSTEM $1$DGA2276 APPVOL1 $ LD CONNECT DISK$APPVOL:[MYAPP]APPVOL_1.ODS LDA1d1 $ LD CONNECT DISK$APPVOL:[MYAPP]APPVOL_2.ODS LDA2i $ MOUNT/SYSTEM LDA1 APPVOL_1 $ MOUNT/SYSTEM LDA2 APPVOL_2: $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKA100 LDA1:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL): $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DKB100 LDA2:/TRANS=(CONCEAL,TERMINAL)  E All of these would get around the problem, but the ultimate fix is toaB *NEVER* use actual device names *EXCEPT* where they are absolutelyD needed. The MOUNT command is about the only such common place, other than LD CONNECT.  H So, to repeat: if you can't change those device names, and you can't useH the logical name trick, you're hosed. Pack it up and make the obligatory pilgrimage to Redmond...   -- r David J. Dachterar dba DJE SystemsR http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Aug 2003 06:14:53 GMTd/ From: "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net>o/ Subject: Re: [Change topic -> OT] Pence/Penniesw5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-jNscuJyggQQD@localhost>h  E On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 08:03:09 UTC, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) o wrote:   <snip>  E > > Nope, your memory's fading.  The florin was the 2 shilling piece.nE > > 2 shillings and sixpence was the "half crown" (presumably at somet9 > > point there was a 5 shilling piece called the crown).o > > F > Yep, guilty of brain fade there. The crown was real, although for me5 > only as a commemorative piece on Churchill's death:o > * > http://www.24carat.co.uk/1965crown.html   F My mum's still got my Coronation crown in its presentation case. Gives  my age away :-)   -- a Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.429 ************************the page. The tabs probably include one that lets you view a62,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accepted.  <<< PORT 147,162,156,46,200,346 >>> 200 Port 200.34 at Host 147.162.156.46 accep