1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 09 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 438       Contents: $asctim  Re: $asctim  Re: $asctim A Re: Can VMS still be improved?  Yes!  (Was Re: Netware is no VMS) A Re: Can VMS still be improved?  Yes!  (Was Re: Netware is no VMS) 4 Re: How many errors are too many when making CD-R's? Re: Locale question  Re: mount count  Re: Netware is no VMS  Re: Netware is no VMS  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates 2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 8 Aug 2003 23:34:11 -0700 0 From: hidra2000@yahoo.com (Eyal Sharabi Horwitz) Subject: $asctim= Message-ID: <24beb743.0308082234.752a2599@posting.google.com>   A im having a bit of difficulty with the $asctim function, for some C reason, every once in a while it gives me a date that's not in it's 1 usual format, which causes a crash in my program.   B is there a default return value, or a default error value for this	 function?   4 (i've tried looking in the Help but... no such luck)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 02:52:39 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: $asctim< Message-ID: <howard-8F6DA5.02523709082003@enews.newsguy.com>  = In article <24beb743.0308082234.752a2599@posting.google.com>, 2  hidra2000@yahoo.com (Eyal Sharabi Horwitz) wrote:  6 > (i've tried looking in the Help but... no such luck)  E Try looking in the System Services Reference Manual.  It'll tell you  D about the status values returned by $ASCTIM(), as well as what it's 
 expecting.   --  # Today, on Paper-view: Pulp Fiction!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 11:01:46 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: $asctim& Message-ID: <3F351AEA.653ED3E@fsi.net>   Eyal Sharabi Horwitz wrote:  > C > im having a bit of difficulty with the $asctim function, for some E > reason, every once in a while it gives me a date that's not in it's  > usual format,   ! Could you be a bit more specific?   % > which causes a crash in my program.  > D > is there a default return value, or a default error value for this > function?   E Another poster cited the system services manual. Should prove useful,  and can be found on line.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 03 08:06:30 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: Can VMS still be improved?  Yes!  (Was Re: Netware is no VMS)) Message-ID: <W6CBdaUkBB0i@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3F32ED03.EFAD6040@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > John Vottero wrote:  >>  ; >> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message 0 >> news:rLpbtrW7WCdx@eisner.encompasserve.org...N >> > In article <Gfj017WkGiLe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net >> (Larry Kilgallen) writes:: >> > > In article <VIb6DP4xrsHW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,0 >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >> > >> > >> N >> > >> 9. Application/Resource Monitoring and Failover/Restart -- A subsystem >> that O >> > >> takes certain user-defined actions when a node fails, or an application 	 >> stops.  >> > >>  >> > >> respawn? >> > >> % >> > >> cron:2:respawn:/usr/sbin/cron  >> > >>  >> > >> So VMS lacks respawn?  >> > >I >> > > Without further explanation I don't see how restartable batch jobs @ >> > > together with generic queues don't handle that just fine. >> > > >> > >> > Not the same. >> > >> > $ show entry   308 9 >> >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status 9 >> >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------ < >> >     308  HP_T4_V32       SYSTEM               Executing6 >> >          On available batch queue NODE1_SYS$BATCH >> >A >> > $ delete/entry=308  ! Gone for good, never resubmitted, etc.  >> >E >> > # kill -9 `ps -ef | grep cron | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}'`  >> >= >> > and cron is whacked but inittab restarts it immediately.  >> > >>  O >> That's absurd.  Entry 308 is gone because a suitably privileged user told it K >> to go away.  If that user had wanted it to abort and restart, they would 
 >> have done:  >>  ! >> $ STOP/QUEUE/REQUEUE/ENTRY=308  > B > I think a closer parallel would be to STOP/ID the queue manager. > H > Actually, that would be even more disruptive because all the batch and7 > print jobs would die as would the symbiont processes.  >   K Incorrect. I just did a STOP/ID on the queue manager (my home system folks, L don't try this at work:-)), and could happily talk to an existing batch job.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:57:59 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> J Subject: Re: Can VMS still be improved?  Yes!  (Was Re: Netware is no VMS)' Message-ID: <3F351A07.5DED628C@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > ] > In article <3F32ED03.EFAD6040@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > John Vottero wrote:  > >>= > >> "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message 2 > >> news:rLpbtrW7WCdx@eisner.encompasserve.org...P > >> > In article <Gfj017WkGiLe@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net > >> (Larry Kilgallen) writes:< > >> > > In article <VIb6DP4xrsHW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,2 > >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > >> >	 > >> > >> P > >> > >> 9. Application/Resource Monitoring and Failover/Restart -- A subsystem	 > >> that Q > >> > >> takes certain user-defined actions when a node fails, or an application  > >> stops. 	 > >> > >>  > >> > >> respawn?	 > >> > >> ' > >> > >> cron:2:respawn:/usr/sbin/cron 	 > >> > >>  > >> > >> So VMS lacks respawn?  > >> > >K > >> > > Without further explanation I don't see how restartable batch jobs B > >> > > together with generic queues don't handle that just fine. > >> > > > >> > > >> > Not the same. > >> > > >> > $ show entry   308 ; > >> >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status ; > >> >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------ > > >> >     308  HP_T4_V32       SYSTEM               Executing8 > >> >          On available batch queue NODE1_SYS$BATCH > >> >C > >> > $ delete/entry=308  ! Gone for good, never resubmitted, etc.  > >> >G > >> > # kill -9 `ps -ef | grep cron | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2}'`  > >> >? > >> > and cron is whacked but inittab restarts it immediately.  > >> > > >>Q > >> That's absurd.  Entry 308 is gone because a suitably privileged user told it M > >> to go away.  If that user had wanted it to abort and restart, they would  > >> have done:  > >># > >> $ STOP/QUEUE/REQUEUE/ENTRY=308  > > D > > I think a closer parallel would be to STOP/ID the queue manager. > > J > > Actually, that would be even more disruptive because all the batch and9 > > print jobs would die as would the symbiont processes.  > >  > M > Incorrect. I just did a STOP/ID on the queue manager (my home system folks, N > don't try this at work:-)), and could happily talk to an existing batch job.  E Check your setup and make sure you only have one queue manager. Also, D please cite your VMS version. This behavior appears to have changed.  H At a  former site, we had multiple queue managers. Don't recall why, butD it was necessary and made queue management at startup time rather anF interesting exercise. In that case, it was possible to kill one of theH print queue managers and have the batch queue manager and the batch jobs under its control survived.   E Just tried this on my V7.2-2 system here. The QUEUE_MANAGER restarted  itself:    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sys/b C OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node DJAS01   9-AUG-2003 10:57:28.36  Uptime  48  15:40:29G   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts   Pages B 000000A2 BATCH_1         LEF      5      170   0 00:00:00.40      
 337     73  B ! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sys/proc=q* C OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node DJAS01   9-AUG-2003 10:57:38.72  Uptime  48  15:40:39G   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts   Pages B 0000004C QUEUE_MANAGER   HIB      8      301   0 00:00:00.55      
 199    145     DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ stop/id=4c  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sys/b C OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node DJAS01   9-AUG-2003 10:57:48.83  Uptime  48  15:40:50G   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts   Pages B 000000A2 BATCH_1         LEF      4      170   0 00:00:00.40      
 337     73  B & DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh que/al sys$batch- Batch queue SYS$BATCH, available, on DJAS01::   4   Entry  Jobname         Username             Status4   -----  -------         --------             ------7       1  WAIT            DDACHTERA            Executing ! DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh sys/proc=q* C OpenVMS V7.2-2  on node DJAS01   9-AUG-2003 10:58:09.69  Uptime  48  15:41:10G   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts   Pages B 000000A3 QUEUE_MANAGER   HIB      8      244   0 00:00:00.36      
 167    126       --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 2003 09:49:08 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)= Subject: Re: How many errors are too many when making CD-R's? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0308090849.32451a22@posting.google.com>   f jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<m2e5jv0davn5g67k2l7irl78j3tvmoqhbv@4ax.com>...H > On 7 Aug 2003 10:04:44 -0700, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) > wrote: >  >  > > G > >I will compare disk reading with both sets of CD-R's and report back F > >here. But this new large error rate is a relatively new phenomenon.E > >Either the new disks are bad or the drive has just recently gotten 	 > >dirty.  > L > Just out of curiosity... are you labelling these disks with anything prior > to comparing them?  B No. I do not write on them and I do not put a label on the disk. IE label the case. The disc itself will be labeled with a CD label maker & later, after the comparison operation.   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 05:09:10 GMT 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> Subject: Re: Locale question@ Message-ID: <b9604839362784d305734580740d08be@free.teranews.com>  / In article <bgvvvn$rgj$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, 9  Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> wrote:    > C RTL documentation says > A > "The save set, VMSI18N0nn, is provided on the same media as the  > OpenVMS operating system." > J > We need support ISO8859-2 charset in VMS software (tolower(), toupper()  > etc). We searched on VMS= > installation CD-ROM but there wasn't the file. Where is it?   F I believe it's on the second CD labeled "Layered Products" that ships H along with the system installation CD.  It's annoyingly well hidden and D I can no longer find the docs that say where to find it -- it might . have been the installation and upgrade manual.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 03 09:30:09 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: mount count) Message-ID: <bNQ6wNpJt$Da@elias.decus.ch>    In article <20030808122404.98787.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?amit=20sawhney?= <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> writes: > Hi8 > WHen I issue a SHOW DEVICE DSA?? I notice that the the8 > mount count is 2. What does this mean? How can I check& > the details? Could this be an error? >   I I'd guess that you have the disk mounted on two systems within a cluster.    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 03 08:21:14 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: Netware is no VMS) Message-ID: <w8GXttmEs5Tm@elias.decus.ch>   d In article <bgvij0$sm4ih$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes: > 8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message# > news:3F327E6D.5080402@MMaz.com...  >> jlsue wrote:  >>M >> >On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:33:10 -0700, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 
 >> >wrote: >> > >> >I >> >>A very interesting Linux project, which is underway, is a clustering J >> >>project that creates a unified process space between cluster nodes soG >> >>that true load balancing and failover can occur when a member node L >> >>either slows or dies...  There is no question that VMSclusters has leadI >> >>the way in clustering, but it was never completed to what would be a M >> >>logical conclusion; Process failover/recovery and true load-balancing...  >> >>  >> >>  >> >>  >> >M >> >This is really cool, until you realize that the process that just crashed A >> >system1 got failed over to system2 (then system3, system4...)  >> >I >> Bah, non-sense!  You must be talking about Windows, because this isn't 0 >> an issue with VMS nor most flavors of Unix... >>H >> Think about it, when is the last time you had a rogue VMS application >> take down a VMS system? > M > While not a crash as such, even though a forced crash was needed to recover / > from the situation, I have seen TPU hang VMS. N > Someone with an inappropriately large pagefile quota (about half of the onlyI > pagefile) and moderate working set tried to use TPU to edit a couple of I > files at the same time. Problem was that both files were very very big. E > Enough to consume all of the pagefile... Fixed by some re-tuning... N > The learning item from that is that TPU reads all of a file into memory, andJ > if the file is bigger than your working set, some gets pushed out to theL > pagefile. This means that TPU is not the optimum choice for editting truly
 > huge files.  >   J I think you are talking of an old version of VMS there. At some point, TPUK was changed to address that behaviour by using its own workfiles instead of  virtual memory.   G Mind you, I have recently tried a couple of times to read M$ Word files L with TPU. SET FILL used to work fine to break those horribly long lines intoD a screen readable format, enabling me to extract the text only bits.L However, those recent attempts on V7.3-1 went into a seemingly endless loop,* where I aborted TPU and used DUMP instead.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 10:14:02 -0500, From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> Subject: Re: Netware is no VMS/ Message-ID: <vja3tndakj2328@corp.supernews.com>   I I wrote to Chris Stone at Novell and pointed out that VMS is and has been I actively developed and supported.  Lots of new stuff.  I included the VMS  url.  J He replied.  Something on the order of, that was my point, OS's never die.  K My point was a bit different.  See first sentence above.  Oh well, at least J he read the note and maybe next time will engage brain before vocal cords. Maybe.   Dave...   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:rPPHXgKR3lIl@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > 9 > http://news.com.com/2100-7252_3-5060413.html?tag=fd_top  > @ > "There are still people using (the) VMS (operating system) and minicomputers.E > Just because development stops, doesn't mean people stop using it."  > 4 >            -- Chris Stone, vice chairman at Novell >  > Oh really? > 7 > Mr. Stone I know VMS and to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen,  > "Netware is no VMS." > @ > It's rather sad that such a fine OS as Netware has declined as+ > much as it has.  But it isn't surprising.  > @ > Your statement links Novell's apparent decision to discontinueC > Netware's development with VMS.  Inferring that VMS's development F > has "stopped."  It hasn't.  This July 23rd roadmap shows on slide 10; > what the schedule is for VMS OS development through 2006:  >  > U http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps_files/openvms_roadmaps.pdf  > @ > The slide show itself, is chuck full of development highlights= > for all aspects of VMS.  Such a roadmap has been very handy < > to counter-act blantant ignorance or deliberate FUDding of > OS plans.  > < > Oh, one final misconception that should be corrected.  YouF > are denigrating VMS as some sort of long in the tooth "minicomputer"@ > OS.  Actually, VMS supports up to 96 nodes in a cluster and as< > the above reference notes, large Itanium systems in a 2006@ > timeframe will be VMS ready.  High node-count clusters support+ > mission critical applications today, etc.  >  > Rob Young  >  >   > cc: Chris Stone  at novell.com >     Rob Lemos  at  News.com  >  > K > The opinions represented herein are mine.  I in no way represent HP, VMS, E > or anything else that might be confused with an official statement.  >    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 09 Aug 03 09:33:16 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bh2irq$g8h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   / In article <bh07im$t14$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>, 2    dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:H >In article <bgvrdi$nke$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:1 >>In article <bgtqd7$lnh$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>, 4 >>   dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:   >>Or do you guys have to# >>assume this with every code line?  > I >  If you're looking at the code from some 1337 D00DZ then yes, you do.    ;-)    <grin>  Now my hair does hurt.  @ Thank you for taking the time to explain some facts of computing	 life :-).    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:21:29 +0000 (UTC). From: dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates/ Message-ID: <bh3019$5e7$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>   G In article <bh2irq$g8h$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: 0 >In article <bh07im$t14$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,3 >   dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote: I >>In article <bgvrdi$nke$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: 2 >>>In article <bgtqd7$lnh$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,5 >>>   dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:  >  >>>Or do you guys have to $ >>>assume this with every code line? >>J >>  If you're looking at the code from some 1337 D00DZ then yes, you do.   >;-) >   ><grin>  Now my hair does hurt. A >Thank you for taking the time to explain some facts of computing 
 >life :-). >   E   I'm a comparative computer newbie; this sort of stuff was my youth, D trying to be as much of a 1337 D00D as I could while living in ruralG Ontario where the nearest BBS was long distance and I subscribed to one G bi-monthly technical magazine.  I think the first "real computer" I saw  was a Silicon Graphics 4D/240S.    --  M David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca M Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ M University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer M Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Aug 03 16:26:24 +0200 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?) ) Message-ID: <TRrC12SiwLZP@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <mkg0hb.18b.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:  > Paul Sture wrote:  >>  M >> PS. You have mentioned in the past a DNS provider in Germany. Can you tell # >> me if they can do .ch addresses?  > D > I'm not Phillip Helbig, but I can tell you: yes they (1&1) do, see, > http://hosting.1und1.com/  -> DomainCheck.   Thanks for that info, Albrecht.   M PS. Tiscali stinks. I haven't used them since 2 years ago, when they abruptly D cut me off, but they are still trying to make me pay for a service I cannot use.    mfg  Danke vielmal usw.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.438 ************************