1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 12 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 444       Contents:5 Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster 9 Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster - DQDRIVER  / OpenVMS 7.3-1 / ACER-Chipset bug? 1 Re: DQDRIVER  / OpenVMS 7.3-1 / ACER-Chipset bug?  Re: how to start DECevent  Re: how to start DECevent 6 HP services in disarray ... IBM starting to look good?- Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego - Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego - Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center. % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.  Re: Locale question & OpenVMS mentioned in UK trade press ad* Re: patch corrupts product install utility* Re: patch corrupts product install utility Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates I Re: preventing DCL delete command from warning that a file does not exist ) Re: Results, Sizes of logical name tables   Re: Sizes of logical name tables2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)2 Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)  Re: the newest file in directory  Re: the newest file in directory  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 03:41:20 -0700$ From: mike.whorley@coda.com (mikeyw)> Subject: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster= Message-ID: <33398788.0308120241.5d0059c8@posting.google.com>    Hi,   D I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes/ in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.   D The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.F However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onA it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am / correct and also if there is a way around this.    Many thanks, Mike.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:05:45 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster; Message-ID: <01KZDILO0CSKAM7Y4A@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.    OK.   1 So there is a separate system disk for each node?   F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.-                                       ??????? I Perhaps this recommendation assumes a common system disk.  If there is a  F separate system disk for each node, then it is enough if that node is H down.  In fact, this (keeping the cluster up while doing maintenance on 7 a node) is a good reason to have separate system disks.   H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.   > If you boot from the CD, then you boot that node "standalone".  I Shut down the node.  Reboot from CD.  Do the backup.  Reboot from disk.    Repeat for the other nodes.   D This assumes that each node has 1 vote and that expected votes is 3.  C I will leave to followups questions regarding whether or not to use G /REMOVE_NODE and the relationship of this to MSCP-served disks mounted  * on nodes other than the ones hosting them.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:56:12 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster& Message-ID: <3F38F1E1.1E558830@hp.com>  
 mikeyw wrote:  >  > Hi,  > F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.  >  > Many thanks, > Mike.   G If you boot from CD you have no cluster parameters; So: bring down the  H whole cluster, boot one node off a CD and backup to your hearts' content ... Another Mike.  --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:28:56 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster' Message-ID: <bhaitr$a06$2@lore.csc.com>   
 mikeyw wrote:  >  > Hi,  > F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.   H There is nothing wrong in what you are trying to do. As you are bringingD up a system standalone, no networking software or other applicationsE will be available, and the cluster quorum is not required. This fully F assumes you are shutting down all nodes in the cluster, and using just one.  F (If you happen to have other nodes in the cluster up, you may get some= interesting communication and messages where hardware cluster  interconnects are concerned).   D With careful planning, and if you have systems with direct access toB storage and additional tape drives, you could concurrently perform standalone backups of disks.  C As you sound as if you're not quite sure of OpenVMS, I would advise B understanding qualifiers for BACKUP, in particular /BLOCK=, /IMAGE" /NOALIAS (start an argument time).  G Good values for /BLOCK are in excess of 16384, but have implications if E you ever want to use a disk to stage a tape backup greater than 32768 F block size. The default 8192 blocksize is woefully low, and results in$ extended time to perform the backup.  , It is good practice to also use the /VERIFY.  , You'll probably get other opinions here too.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:46:53 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster9 Message-ID: <bhak3c$vvjcm$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   3 "mikeyw" <mike.whorley@coda.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:33398788.0308120241.5d0059c8@posting.google.com...  > Hi,  > F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.  >  > Many thanks, > Mike. K It is possible to bring one node up in a cluster. It does not matter if you H have one system disk or more. Depending on what you want to do there are several possibilities:  * 1- bring one node up as an isolated systemK In this case, boot into SYSBOOT and set VAXCLUSTER to 0. Make sure that the D system does not share any disk with any other system in the cluster.I The other two members can remain up and running, provided that votes were  adjusted to retain quorum.  / 2- bring one node up as a single member cluster 8 Boot into SYSBOOT and set EXPECTED_VOTES equal to VOTES.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:39:52 +0300 7 From: "Erkki Rantala" <erkki.rantala@invia.fujitsu.com> B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster) Message-ID: <bhaiug$mls$1@isokari.icl.fi>    > F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.  >  > Many thanks, > Mike.   K It is possible to boot only one node in 3-node cluster using a quorum disk. . However, it's not the answer to your question.  
 I suppose:G   - you have nodes A,B and C, each of them having it's own system disk. F   - systeme disks are local, not accessible directly from other nodes.  , To backup the system disks do the following:J 1. Dismount node A's system disk (and the dackup device) on nodes B ja C ( if mounted).< 2. Shutdown node A (nodes B and C keep the cluster running).7 3. Boot node A from CD -  it will not join the cluster. 4 4. Mount node A's system disk and the backup device./        DON'T EVEN TRY TO TOUCH THE OTHER DISKS.  5. Run the backup.; 6. Boot node A back to cluster from the normal system disk. # 7. Repeat 1-6  with nodes B and C . 5 8. Mount the system disks on other nodes (if needed). 
 regards eRkki    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 07:41:28 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster3 Message-ID: <dcYWvxzu6sL+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <33398788.0308120241.5d0059c8@posting.google.com>, mike.whorley@coda.com (mikeyw) writes: > Hi,  > F > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes1 > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > F > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.H > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onC > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 1 > correct and also if there is a way around this.   E    When you boot from the install CD you are not in a cluster, so the A    quorum rules which apply when you boot from the system disk do '    not apply when you boot from the CD.   F    You will want to review your votes, quorum, and cluster common fileD    locations to make sure the rest of the nodes can remain in normalA    operation.  Mkae sure to use the "remove_node" option when you -    shut down so that quorum will be adjusted.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 07:53:42 -0700$ From: mike.whorley@coda.com (mikeyw)B Subject: Re: Can I bring up just one node in a 3 node OVMS cluster= Message-ID: <33398788.0308120653.6b794f88@posting.google.com>   [ Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> wrote in message news:<3F38F1E1.1E558830@hp.com>...  > mikeyw wrote:  > >  > > Hi,  > > H > > I was to take an image backup of the system disk of each of my nodes3 > > in an OVMS cluster booting from the install CD.  > > H > > The recommendation is to ensure the cluster is down when doing this.J > > However I believe it will not be possible just to bring one node up onE > > it's own due to the rules of quorom. Can anyone confirm that I am 3 > > correct and also if there is a way around this.  > >  > > Many thanks,	 > > Mike.  > I > If you boot from CD you have no cluster parameters; So: bring down the  J > whole cluster, boot one node off a CD and backup to your hearts' content > ... Another Mike.    Top Man ! - That's great news.   Cheers,  Mike.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 16:01:03 +0200C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann) 6 Subject: DQDRIVER  / OpenVMS 7.3-1 / ACER-Chipset bug?- Message-ID: <3f38f31f$1@news.uni-konstanz.de>    Hi,   I There are several people who wrote me that they cannot use CDRECORD under I OpenVMS 7.3-1. This only happens with ACER-Chipsets. The DQDRIVER-version D is X-35A1. CDRECORD crashes during setting up the drive for burning.  I Can anybody confirm my assumption that it is a driver problem? Is there a 
 newer version  than X-35A1 available?   thanks eberhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:53:02 -0400 1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> : Subject: Re: DQDRIVER  / OpenVMS 7.3-1 / ACER-Chipset bug?+ Message-ID: <3F390D5E.FB5CBC3F@hp.com.doom>   M      Just checked with the folks who maintain DQDRIVER and they have run into  DMA problems with L the ACER chip set and some burners.  There is a new driver X-35A2 that is in the process or being	 released.      Forrest Kenney     Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote:   > Hi,  > K > There are several people who wrote me that they cannot use CDRECORD under K > OpenVMS 7.3-1. This only happens with ACER-Chipsets. The DQDRIVER-version F > is X-35A1. CDRECORD crashes during setting up the drive for burning. > K > Can anybody confirm my assumption that it is a driver problem? Is there a  > newer version  > than X-35A1 available? >  > thanks
 > eberhard   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 05:22:06 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>" Subject: Re: how to start DECevent5 Message-ID: <2Q_Za.745$d6.60330@nasal.pacific.net.au>   + amit sawhney <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote:  > Hello all,7 > DECevent in our cluster is not working at the moment. 5 > How can I get it up? Is there a COM file (as is the ! > case for TCP/IP) I need to run?   ? 	Have you looked in SYS$STARTUP ? There should be a file called  	DECEVENT$STARTUP.COM . > 	( In the SYS$MANAGER directory also a DECEVENT$SHUTDOWN.COM ) 	Hope this helps...  						Cheers,  Csaba  J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:     Weinberg's Corollary : E   An expert is a person who avoids the small errors while sweeping on       to the grand fallacy.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:09:54 +0100 (BST) = From: =?iso-8859-1?q?amit=20sawhney?= <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> " Subject: Re: how to start DECevent@ Message-ID: <20030812070954.18077.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com>   thanks csaba... 6  --- HARANGOZO CSABA <spameater@spam.invalid> wrote: >+ amit sawhney <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com> wrote:  > > Hello all,1 > > DECevent in our cluster is not working at the 	 > moment. 3 > > How can I get it up? Is there a COM file (as is  > the # > > case for TCP/IP) I need to run?  > 5 > 	Have you looked in SYS$STARTUP ? There should be a 
 > file called  > 	DECEVENT$STARTUP.COM . ( > 	( In the SYS$MANAGER directory also a > DECEVENT$SHUTDOWN.COM )  > 	Hope this helps...  > 						Cheers,  Csaba >  >  > I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ( >   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| # > csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)au  >  > I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, > delete? [N]: >  >  Weinberg's Corollary : 5 >   An expert is a person who avoids the small errors  > while sweeping on  >      to the grand fallacy.     ===== 	 Sincerely  Amit S  H ________________________________________________________________________E Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo! ( Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 10:19:21 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: HP services in disarray ... IBM starting to look good? = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0308120919.7426d30e@posting.google.com>   4 this is on the inquirer ... if this is true, then HP is in trouble big time!   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10950    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:21:23 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>6 Subject: Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego' Message-ID: <bhaev6$8lj$1@lore.csc.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > K > 34 IBM servers (including a pair of p690s, 4 p650s, 24 x440s, and 4 Shark L > SAN storage boxes) replacing 230+ existing cHumPaq servers (mixed HP9000 -K > Superdome, unless they're old, Alpha, and ProLiant, plus StorageWorks ESA ; > storage), according to other more detailed reports (e.g., N > http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/server/story/0,10801,83 > 892,00.html?nas=AM-83892 ).  >  > ...   H Unless I'm very much mistaken, Lego used to be a very big VMS user (VAX)< so the attrition has been over a significant period of time.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:29:07 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 6 Subject: Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego' Message-ID: <3F38EBA3.BD92898E@aaa.com>   2 And if *I* am not wrong, LEGO once was the largest Rdb shop in Scandinavia...  	 Jan-Erik.    Nic Clews wrote: > J > Unless I'm very much mistaken, Lego used to be a very big VMS user (VAX)> > so the attrition has been over a significant period of time. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:33:17 -0400 + From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.com> 6 Subject: Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego4 Message-ID: <nx9_a.3242$Gf3.15119@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  ; ... explaining why I received some Lego blocks in the mail. K I didn't bother to read what was on the package (IBM advertising of course) ' but my kid is very happy with the Lego.    --   Syltrem    OpenVMS 7.3-1 + Oracle 8.1.7.4H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)% ---zulu is not in my email address--- 8 "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> a crit dans le message deC news:6xVZa.155972$hOa.31173@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... H > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030811/bs_nm/tech_
 > ibm_dc_1 >  > + > IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego  > Mon Aug 11,12:55 AM ET > G > NEW YORK (Reuters) - IBM Monday said it signed a technology deal with A > Danish toy maker Lego Co. in which it will replace systems from E > competitor Hewlett-Packard Co. with pay-as-you-go computing that it 7 > said will cut Lego's costs during the holiday season.  > E > International Business Machines Corp. did not disclose terms of the F > deal, which involves about 30 computer servers and some data storage
 > systems. > A > Competition between HP and IBM heated up after HP bought Compaq B > Computer last year and as corporations have cut their technology" > budgets due to the weak economy. > E > HP said this was **one of a "handful" of contract losses related to A > the Compaq Alpha server**, which is based on proprietary Compaq @ > technology that was being phased out even before HP bought the
 > company. > F > "We win some, they win some," an HP spokeswoman said, adding that HPG > recently won a computer server contract over IBM with the China State  > Tax Authority. > F > IBM and Lego in a joint statement said the toy company would replaceF > 230 Hewlett-Packard computers with six large computers from IBM thatD > run on IBM chips and the popular Unix (news - web sites) operatingD > system, 24 computers based on microprocessors from Intel Corp. and( > four very large data storage machines. > F > IBM has been pushing its "on-demand" computing model since last yearF > when Samuel Palmisano took over as chief executive officer. IBM saysG > companies can save money by paying for only as much computing as they  > use. >  > -------------------  > H > So the question is......how many new Alpha customers and Alpha systemsC > sold did HP add to their customer base today to replace Lego as a F > customer and install count?....oh shit...back to the advertising and > marketing issue again....  >  > B > ...just waiting for Fred and Rob to jump on my back for this one >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:30:12 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.' Message-ID: <bha8em$7g9$1@lore.csc.com>    dittman@dittman.net wrote: > 0 > Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote: > > dittman@dittman.net wrote:5 > >> I can't use a web-based tool when I'm text-only.  > > " > > You can if you install Lynx... > @ > I don't have Lynx installed on any of my VMS systems, and will: > not install it just to work around some stupid decision.  D It doesn't work with Lynx. Enabling cookies does allow a login and aE search selection, but then it dumps you back to the sign in (seems to @ have lost a cookie). Lynx does complain about malformed cookies.  ? I use lynx with the old (current) patch tree quite effectively.      --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:48:52 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.' Message-ID: <bha9hp$7kv$1@lore.csc.com>    Jim Strehlow wrote:  > ' > What is YOUR opinion of the new ITRC?   G Our platinum team advised of about this some while back, and one or two $ of our teams signed up and tried it.  D Very recently I got notification of the removal of the patch tree weC know and love and thought I'd better try this out. Eventually I got F registered, but I did not get the confirmation email I was supposed to about by user ID and password.  H At first I didn't find selecting the "browse" option intuitive, and whenA I did get it working, I was dismayed to see the limited amount of B information. I did not like the idea of having to perform multipleG selections, but for the hell of it I clicked a download, and it decided F to save it as "PATCH.ZIP", not even now any name relevant to the kit I was downloading.  F I tried Lynx for VMS access. It is not only inconvenient having to FTPE an already received file to another system (halving my productivity), C the presence of bloatware on a windoze platform means I've precious E little space anyway. Lynx failed miserably, well lets get this right,   their web site failed miserably.  D I also noted that we have access on the VAX side back to V5, and theE Alpha side to V1. The earliest you start on the "new and improved" is  6.2, backwards step.  E So I registered a complaint (Hello, miss) with our platinum team, and . I've been assigned a case number on my behalf.  E One argument that I saw for having to use IDs to log in is to protect E HP's intellectual property. I would not mind having to use a user and C password to access the current web patch tree (start a session) but F there is only one sensible use for cookies, and the worst problem they) should give me is crumbs in the keyboard.   H In summary this is a vote of no confidence in the new site. My colleagueB who tried the site when we were notified is I understand similarly unimpressed.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 02:39:59 -0700% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) . Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0308120139.1d2d75e0@posting.google.com>   u Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote in message news:<6.0.0.14.2.20030811170851.04e5c0c8@mail.patmedia.net>... # > At 04:11 PM 8/11/2003, you wrote: 0 > >Jim Strehlow <JimStrehlow@data911.com> wrote:D > > > I have mixed feelings about the new H.P. I.T. Resource Center.K > > > Microsoft has had Windows Update to help administrators find patches. B > > > There needed to be something to make things easier for us to! > > > administer OpenVMS patches.  > > D > >I don't think a web-based tools is the way to implement this tool > >for OpenVMS.  > M > I guess I'm in the minority here ... all of my jobs for the last 10+ years  N > (both consulting and direct) did not allow direct FTP from the VMS machines M > to the outside world, so I had to use either a windows based FTP or a UNIX  M > based FTP program to download patches. The only exception to this was when   > I had dial up DSN available. >  > + > > > What is YOUR opinion of the new ITRC?  > > - > >I think the ITRC is a huge step backwards.  > J > I briefly glanced at the site. There are some interesting (and possibly I > useful) icons on the page. One in particular tells you whether a patch   > requires a re-boot.   B Sometimes, yes. But for instance, RMS V4.0 for OpenVMS V7.3-1 does/ require a reboot but it does not have the icon.    > C > I do agree that getting rid of the FTP method is not a good idea.  > @ > Maybe someone at HP World can find out more about this change. >  > Ken Robinson  F B.t.w., I tried the new ITRC using Mozilla on OpenVMS and it complainsC about java thingies missing, but up to now I have not seen anything E that does not work. I do not think ITRC is a big improvement, though. F FTP access using Mozilla worked fine for me, even though the filenames are truncated in the display.   	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:26:14 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.: Message-ID: <bhagf4$10a5mg$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>  ' On 12-Aug-2003 00:15, Paul Sture wrote:   * > But from http://www.itrc.hp.com we read: > ; > "Note:This site requires use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or 1 > Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 or above, or an 6 > equivalent browser. Javascript and Style Sheets must1                       ^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 3 > be enabled, and your browser must accept cookies. 2      ^^^^^^^                        ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^9 > Some features may not be available if viewed with other ' > browsers or browser configurations. "   4 Rather strange for customers running VMS systems ...   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:51:55 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> . Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.% Message-ID: <3F38F0DF.2EA7173@hp.com>    Michael Unger wrote: > ) > On 12-Aug-2003 00:15, Paul Sture wrote:  > , > > But from http://www.itrc.hp.com we read: > > = > > "Note:This site requires use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or 3 > > Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 or above, or an 8 > > equivalent browser. Javascript and Style Sheets must3 >                       ^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 5 > > be enabled, and your browser must accept cookies. 4 >      ^^^^^^^                        ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^; > > Some features may not be available if viewed with other ) > > browsers or browser configurations. "  > 6 > Rather strange for customers running VMS systems .../ Works with Mozilla (SWB V1.2.1) on Alpha V7.3-1 D (showed a box asking whether to download plugin, which I ignored...)   > 	 > Michael  >  > --= > Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. B > Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityC > Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. ? > And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:27:43 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.' Message-ID: <bhairi$a06$1@lore.csc.com>    Mike Rechtman wrote: >  > Michael Unger wrote: > > + > > On 12-Aug-2003 00:15, Paul Sture wrote:  > > . > > > But from http://www.itrc.hp.com we read: > > > ? > > > "Note:This site requires use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or 5 > > > Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 or above, or an : > > > equivalent browser. Javascript and Style Sheets must5 > >                       ^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 7 > > > be enabled, and your browser must accept cookies. 6 > >      ^^^^^^^                        ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^= > > > Some features may not be available if viewed with other + > > > browsers or browser configurations. "  > > 8 > > Rather strange for customers running VMS systems ...1 > Works with Mozilla (SWB V1.2.1) on Alpha V7.3-1 F > (showed a box asking whether to download plugin, which I ignored...) >   @ However, relatively few are on this version, the majority are onC operating system versions not even supported by the site itself for . patch download, never mind access to the site.  5 http://members.optusnet.com.au/~night.owl/morons.html   E This page is as useful as it's amusing, and opens with "This web site  requires..."  C Interestingly, I see that there is increasing interest in access to > websites by the disabled and looking reasonable in lynx is one qualification. --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:37:30 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.) Message-ID: <bhajhq$oo9$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   l In article <4b6ec350.0308110920.727cf342@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:? >I have mixed feelings about the new H.P. I.T. Resource Center. F >Microsoft has had Windows Update to help administrators find patches.= >There needed to be something to make things easier for us to  >administer OpenVMS patches.< >But H.P. is going to take away their FTP site in September.C >I do not mind finding out about patches via some new tool at ITRC; F >but I prefer using FTP on OpenVMS directly binary copying files to my
 >AlphaServer.  > D >H.P. will be forcing me to have to either "double transfer" from myC >P.C. to OpenVMS, or I will have to go to a DECWindows terminal (in G >another room away from my regular workspace), launch Mozilla (or other  >browser) etc. >   4 Much prefer FTP to using any browser for downloads. E Downloading to a PC and then uploading to the VMS system - no way !!!     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   PS.   H If they do force use of a browser they won't force you to use a PC basedK broqwser will they - eg as they did with the webbased software distribution L service a little while ago. In fact didn't they have to provide an FTP based1 solution to allow users to access that software ?         D >Since H.P. has been e-mailing me patch notifications, that has been/ >good enough for an "update notification tool."  > & >What is YOUR opinion of the new ITRC? > > >Jim Strehlow, OpenVMS Systems Administrator, Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 07:26:21 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.3 Message-ID: <ITWIFcLqOxEy@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  i In article <bh96en$u4g$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  > G > I "heard" about it because I susbscribe to the patch mailing list.  IeO > susbscribe as a "check" against the "patches" thread in the VMS conference onMQ > EISNER::.  I suppose if one were to scour the ITRC web site on a regular basis,e9 > one would discover the addition of the patches in ITRC.r     And the URL is?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:53:34 -0400 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> . Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.B Message-ID: <6.0.0.14.2.20030812085038.04beee50@mail.patmedia.net>  ! At 08:26 AM 8/12/2003, you wrote:sL >In article <bh96en$u4g$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org  >(Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  > >RI > > I "heard" about it because I susbscribe to the patch mailing list.  I.D > > susbscribe as a "check" against the "patches" thread in the VMS  > conference onuE > > EISNER::.  I suppose if one were to scour the ITRC web site on a . > regular basis,; > > one would discover the addition of the patches in ITRC.  >  >   And the URL is?o  ' Here is the email I received yesterday:o  #       ==== begin email message ====e  7 Improved Access to HP Tru64 UNIX and HP OpenVMS Patchese    E As part of HP's continued commitment to provide our customers with a  D world-class customer  experience, we are introducing a new customer C solution for obtaining patches for HP OpenVMS, HP  Tru64 UNIX, and gJ associated layered products.  Now, you can get these patches at the HP IT L Resource  Center (ITRC) and take advantage of this one-stop IT professional L support site's advanced patch  capabilities and comprehensive support tools.  @ This new solution will provide customers the following features:6          One stop shopping for all HP produced patches4          Improved search capabilities and navigationK          Ability to download all desired and dependent patches in a single o= transaction thereby           saving time and reducing errors   B All users of DSN link, http://www.support.compaq.com/patches, and F ftp1.compaq.com will now be  directed to the HP IT Resource Center to F obtain patches for HP Tru64 UNIX, HP OpenVMS, and  associated layered  products patches.o  L The existing patch distribution sites will be retired in September 2003. We J encouraged you to begin  using the new ITRC services immediately and take L advantage of the advanced patching and other  technical support features of 	 the site.a   Getting Started:G When you need to find and download a patch or patch kit, use HP ITRC's   Patch Database.b  1 Begin at HP's IT Resource Center (ITRC) web site:  http://www.itrc.hp.com  A   From the ITRC home page, select "individual patches" under the e/ maintenance and support (hp  products) heading.h  H If you are first time user of the ITRC, you will need to register for a F user ID and password.  Follow the instruction on the log in screen to I register. If you are already registered with the  ITRC, log in with your oK user ID and password. [if you are registered to use the forums there, that o" registration is sufficient -- Ken]  F For more information on searching and downloading patches, follow the J "Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS  patches" link in the right side bar of the patch G main menu. For more information on the IT Resource  Center, follow the  D "introducing the ITRC" right sidebar linkage off the ITRC home page.      ==== End email message ====   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:46:17 GMT - From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@hp.com> . Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.& Message-ID: <3F3919BE.7F09CCA9@hp.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:C > n > In article <4b6ec350.0308110920.727cf342@posting.google.com>, JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) writes:A > >I have mixed feelings about the new H.P. I.T. Resource Center.pH > >Microsoft has had Windows Update to help administrators find patches.? > >There needed to be something to make things easier for us to  > >administer OpenVMS patches.> > >But H.P. is going to take away their FTP site in September. <...snip...> > 5 > Much prefer FTP to using any browser for downloads.rG > Downloading to a PC and then uploading to the VMS system - no way !!!e >    From Eisner: ============ $ ftp ftp.itrc.hp.com < Eisner.Encompasserve.org MultiNet FTP user process V4.4(119). Connection opened (Assuming 8-bit connections) <y- <Welcome to the IT Resource Center ftp servera7 <------------------------------------------------------s <,C <You are user 7, and there is a limit of 400 simultaneous accesses.e <iH <Log in as user "anonymous" (using your e-mail address as your password)F <to retrieve available patches for HP-UX, MPE/iX, and other platforms. <h> <If you are a user of other HP ITRC services, log in with your@ <HP ITRC User ID and password to deposit or retrieve your files. <9& <If you have questions, send email to: <t+ <   support_feedback@us-ffs.external.hp.com- <-5 <dux418 FTP server (HP ASL ftpd, version(322)) ready.  FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>loginO   Foreign username: anonymousd? <Guest login ok, send your complete e-mail address as password. 	 Password:D+ <Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.C FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>ls2 <Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. .archive bin0 export tmpi domain_patches firmware_patches
 hp-ux_patchesC mpe-ix_patches
 mv_patches
 patch_bundlesS recalled_patches superseded_patches usersc linux  archived_patches patches_with_warningso openvms_patchesc
 tru64_patchese <Transfer complete.n" FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>cd openvms_patches <CWD command successful. FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>ls2 <Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. alphae vaxe catalogw <Transfer complete.u FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>cd vax <CWD command successful. FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>ls2 <Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. 7.2X 7.3X 6.2X catalog  <Transfer complete.o FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>cd 7.3X  <CWD command successful. FTP.ITRC.HP.COM>ls2 <Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. VAXDWMOTMUP01_073.txtt VAXAUDS01_073.A-DCX_VAXEXE VAXAUDS01_073.txt  VAXDRIV01_073.txtt VAXDRIV01_073.A-DCX_VAXEXE VAXDTSS01_073.txtu VAXDTSS01_073.A-DCX_VAXEXE ......  C And after entering an email saying that V5.5-2 was also a supportedoG VAX OpenVMS version I received a phone call promising to investigate... ! So comments *are* read, at least!a     > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > PS.t > J > If they do force use of a browser they won't force you to use a PC basedM > broqwser will they - eg as they did with the webbased software distributioncN > service a little while ago. In fact didn't they have to provide an FTP based3 > solution to allow users to access that software ?  > F > >Since H.P. has been e-mailing me patch notifications, that has been1 > >good enough for an "update notification tool."  > >e( > >What is YOUR opinion of the new ITRC? > > @ > >Jim Strehlow, OpenVMS Systems Administrator, Alameda, CA, USA   -- eE --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.-? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*lF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------h -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----5 Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:48:45 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.+ Message-ID: <bhar7u$ova@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>I  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in messaget0 news:20030812061036.31484.qmail@gacracker.org...    K > I wonder if the Auzzies will set one up.  For anyone who hasn't collecteddK > all the patches their current site is a godsend when doing a new install.n  G There has been for some time, a big notice on their site announcing theU" migration to ITRC, so I guess not.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:48:44 -0400 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>. Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.: Message-ID: <bhauod$10897k$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   Paul Sture wrote:l >...* > But from http://www.itrc.hp.com we read: > ; > "Note:This site requires use of Netscape 4.0 or above, ori1 > Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 or above, or ani6 > equivalent browser. Javascript and Style Sheets must3 > be enabled, and your browser must accept cookies.k9 > Some features may not be available if viewed with other ' > browsers or browser configurations. "l   "Some features!"  ; You can not get past the "Search for patches" (actually, in : the HP lowercase tradition the S in search should be lower> case, but I just can not bring myself to violate the quotation; rules that way. please, someone sell HP some shift keys forn< their keyboards) page if you do not allow JavaScript because7 the only version available for you is "........." "Some : features may not be available" should be re-worded to "The= only feature you would possible want to come here to use wills not work at all."t   -- k Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXm www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:14:38 +0200 7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>c Subject: Re: Locale question/ Message-ID: <bha44u$tu1$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>M   Craig A. Berry wrote: 1 > In article <bgvvvn$rgj$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>,U; >  Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> wrote:  >  >  >>C RTL documentation says >>A >>"The save set, VMSI18N0nn, is provided on the same media as then >>OpenVMS operating system." >>J >>We need support ISO8859-2 charset in VMS software (tolower(), toupper()  >>etc). We searched on VMS= >>installation CD-ROM but there wasn't the file. Where is it?u >  > H > I believe it's on the second CD labeled "Layered Products" that ships J > along with the system installation CD.  It's annoyingly well hidden and F > I can no longer find the docs that say where to find it -- it might 0 > have been the installation and upgrade manual.    & Many thanks. Your suggestion was good.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:32:12 +0100d* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>/ Subject: OpenVMS mentioned in UK trade press ado' Message-ID: <bhb15t$elk$1@lore.csc.com>   A So there I was sifting through the backlog of trade rags prior to G becoming recycling fodder, and I saw a full page HP ad for HP Integrity " Servers with Itanium 2 processors.  G And there I saw it, the list of operating systems thus: Linux, Windows,  UNIX and OpenVMS  D (And an asterisk by the OpenVMS saying "expected to launch in 2004")  F OK, it's not a full page ad extolling the virtues, but it's there as a selling point for the hardware.i  & Computer Weekly 22 July 2003, page 14.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:13:13 +0100a* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>3 Subject: Re: patch corrupts product install utilityt, Message-ID: <bha7ir$1494@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  5 "Phil Sobottke" <prsobottke@aep.com> wrote in message 7 news:5bcc5f24.0308110930.40b5da15@posting.google.com...t  A > The same error shows up when trying to install patches (or justo? > showing the installed patches).  Interestingly enough, we are E > installing on 8 machines of various vintages...and only the DS-10'sp > are giving us the problem.  D You haven't hidden dcltables with a copy in sys$specific:[syslib] by9 any chance? If so you can use the freeware VERB, DIFF and   SET COMMAND to merge the tables.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 06:33:10 -0700( From: prsobottke@aep.com (Phil Sobottke)3 Subject: Re: patch corrupts product install utility = Message-ID: <5bcc5f24.0308120533.411f54a7@posting.google.com>i   You were correct.  Thanks!      ^ "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<bha7ir$1494@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>...7 > "Phil Sobottke" <prsobottke@aep.com> wrote in messageh9 > news:5bcc5f24.0308110930.40b5da15@posting.google.com...  > C > > The same error shows up when trying to install patches (or justCA > > showing the installed patches).  Interestingly enough, we areeG > > installing on 8 machines of various vintages...and only the DS-10'sv > > are giving us the problem. > F > You haven't hidden dcltables with a copy in sys$specific:[syslib] by; > any chance? If so you can use the freeware VERB, DIFF and-" > SET COMMAND to merge the tables.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 12 Aug 03 09:24:19 GMTm From: jmfbahciv@aol.com $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bhafg0$h2t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   3 In article <D2JkWN3WpxD9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,R?    koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:nF >In article <bh88d7$qb3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >iC >> And were all files limited to one length?  What do you do if you:B >> have a file that is larger than available pre-allocated memory? >tG >   You used files as files.  You read a record or two, processed that,tB >   and wrote a record or two to the output file.  You didn't needF >   a 256K of memory just because you had a file that took up the half >   the floppy.   A That's what sane people would have done :-).  I get the distinct  ' impression that MS-DOS didn't know how.-   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 12 Aug 03 11:41:04 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.com $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bhangd$6vq$1@bob.news.rcn.net>w  ) In article <tqmy8y088ka.fsf@drizzle.com>,e,    Patrick Scheible <kkt@drizzle.com> wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >(2 >> In article <bh5q7m$ddm$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,5 >>    dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:cK >> >In article <bh58k6$mlg$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:V4 >> >>In article <bgtj2h$i34$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,7 >> >>   dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:-G >> >>>In article <bgtate$60n$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> a wrote:9 >> >>>>In article <3f3f0cd2.12775862@news.supernews.com>,-* >> >>>>   ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote:I >> >>>>>One of the big problems with cramped spaces was that users would l use H >> >>>>>up every available byte of user space available, thus increasing; >> >>>>>system size would render their programs inoperable.  >> >>>>uE >> >>>>This makes no sense.  That would be problem only if their codee? >> >>>>(or data placement) was hardwired to absolute addresses.  >> >>>>D >> >>>J >> >>>  In my experiences in micro land, absolute addresses were the rule.K >> >>>Not many folks bothered with relocating loaders when you only had oneoC >> >>>64K address space and something like the 6502 makes it prettyr: >> >>>irritating to write fully position-independant code. >> >>iJ >> >>Wait a minute...this doesn't make any sense.  Code had to be locationG >> >>independent if it can be loaded into core starting at any address.R >> >I >> >  That was my point: frequently one could not load code into core at   anypI >> >address and expect it to work.  The assembler would be provided with - the-I >> >expected start address and resolve labels to absolute addresses.  As i thereaD >> >was no proper link loader (loading the code simply consisted of  stuffingG >> >the bytes in memory beginning at the proper address) no relocation D couldA >> >be done. >> eF >> Oh, gagmeverymuch.  No wonder there's code bloat and memory leakageD >> out there.  This means that a program had to know how much memoryA >> it ever wanted to use before assembly.  There was no mechanism_B >> to ask the monitor for more core (address space) if and when itB >> needed it.  Most programmers would issue an over-inflated BLOCKA >> statement just to play it "safe" and never bother to do checkse) >> for overflowing its own address space.t >w >.B >On the weenie machines, there only one program running at any one >time.     Some days, yes; some days, not.2  B > .. That one program doesn't have to ask for more memory, it justC >uses whatever it wants (other than avoiding the OS area, which wasr >known ahead of time).    > No, it can't.  It does have know where it's own code stops and: starts.  Every program has some memory management, even if it's implicit.  / > ..If it wanted more memory than there was, in$C >most cases it had to figure out how to store some of it on disk ord9 >floppy all by itself without help from pager or the OS.    6 Sure.  Most programs already have this; I guess people( don't recognize it as memory management.   > ... The OS isLA >just some device drivers and just enough to stick the program ine >memory and jump to it.  >pG >These were the bad old days as far as micros.  (On the other hand, you D >didn't have horrible performance because too many other people were( >using the computer at the same time...)  / Didn't have to be people that bogged them down.t   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 12 Aug 03 11:49:00 GMT- From: jmfbahciv@aol.com $ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates+ Message-ID: <bhanv9$6vq$2@bob.news.rcn.net>?  2 In article <VrqdnYQY_sgOG6qiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>,%    rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:A0 >David Evans <dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >+---------------r >| <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:.> >| >This sounds more like something that magically happened to# >| >work rather than original code.M >| rH >|   No; it was a not uncommon technique to save placing things like LDA@ >| #$00 in the mainline of your code.  The documentation for the2 >| subroutine I began above above might look like: >|  5 >| Entry: $8000 Perform I/O to device specified in .A - >|        $8001 Perform I/O to default devicem >+---------------i >wC >Even in PDP-10 land, having multiple entry points was not all that D >uncommon (though on the -10 one couldn't jump into the middle of anE >instruction, of course). A quickly contrived (and therefore somewhat1 >braindead) example: >t1 >	; To the memory location pointed to by t0, add:) >- >	inc2mm: movei	t1,2		; 2d >		skipa >	incmem: movei	t1,1		; 1m* >	addmem:	addm	t1,(t0)		; the value in t1. >		popj	p,0@  7 Sure.  But you do notice that you can arrange your codew: so that all can identify all entry points?  : was a really5 good indicator and got real useful generating a CREF.L: I can also pretty much guess that the programmer was using> the instruction after the SKIPA as an entry point.  I can also< see that if I'm debugging the program with DDT.  It isn't as; if somebody diddled the SKIPA instruction by changing it to   a five just before executing it.   >hA >[Hmmm... Though now that I think about it, "jrst .+2" was faster  >than "skipa", wasn't it?]  B I don't know.  I didn't spend any time worrying about that sort ofF thing (I didn't get into that kind of programming).  I hated argumentsD that had .+2 or anything that forced an absolute address calculation> at runtime.  It was RPITA to insert a patch into running code.? And modifying a section of code where the programming used this C form of addressing all the time was an exercise left for a bit god.o. And the damned thing didn't show up in a CREF.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.s   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Aug 2003 09:23:18 -0700( From: Patrick Scheible <kkt@drizzle.com>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates) Message-ID: <tqmekzqkfpl.fsf@drizzle.com>m   jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:l  + > In article <tqmy8y088ka.fsf@drizzle.com>,f. >    Patrick Scheible <kkt@drizzle.com> wrote: > >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > 4 > >> In article <bh5q7m$ddm$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,7 > >>    dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote: M > >> >In article <bh58k6$mlg$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:h6 > >> >>In article <bgtj2h$i34$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,9 > >> >>   dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote:sI > >> >>>In article <bgtate$60n$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> q > wrote:; > >> >>>>In article <3f3f0cd2.12775862@news.supernews.com>,d, > >> >>>>   ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote:K > >> >>>>>One of the big problems with cramped spaces was that users would i > usedJ > >> >>>>>up every available byte of user space available, thus increasing= > >> >>>>>system size would render their programs inoperable.-	 > >> >>>> G > >> >>>>This makes no sense.  That would be problem only if their code7A > >> >>>>(or data placement) was hardwired to absolute addresses.D	 > >> >>>>g > >> >>>L > >> >>>  In my experiences in micro land, absolute addresses were the rule.M > >> >>>Not many folks bothered with relocating loaders when you only had oneoE > >> >>>64K address space and something like the 6502 makes it pretty < > >> >>>irritating to write fully position-independant code. > >> >>nL > >> >>Wait a minute...this doesn't make any sense.  Code had to be locationI > >> >>independent if it can be loaded into core starting at any address.  > >> >K > >> >  That was my point: frequently one could not load code into core at u > anyrK > >> >address and expect it to work.  The assembler would be provided with y > the K > >> >expected start address and resolve labels to absolute addresses.  As s > thereoF > >> >was no proper link loader (loading the code simply consisted of 
 > stuffingI > >> >the bytes in memory beginning at the proper address) no relocation e > couldn > >> >be done. > >> hH > >> Oh, gagmeverymuch.  No wonder there's code bloat and memory leakageF > >> out there.  This means that a program had to know how much memoryC > >> it ever wanted to use before assembly.  There was no mechanismrD > >> to ask the monitor for more core (address space) if and when itD > >> needed it.  Most programmers would issue an over-inflated BLOCKC > >> statement just to play it "safe" and never bother to do checksu+ > >> for overflowing its own address space.' > >d > >cD > >On the weenie machines, there only one program running at any one	 > >time. d > ! > Some days, yes; some days, not.t  E Pretty much all days.  It was a Great Leap Forward when just printingu& didn't completely occupy the computer.  D > > .. That one program doesn't have to ask for more memory, it justE > >uses whatever it wants (other than avoiding the OS area, which was  > >known ahead of time).   > @ > No, it can't.  It does have know where it's own code stops and< > starts.  Every program has some memory management, even if > it's implicit.  ; Right, but the program only had to manage memory to its ownh@ satisfaction.  It didn't have to worry about being nice to other# programs because there weren't any.o  1 > > ..If it wanted more memory than there was, intE > >most cases it had to figure out how to store some of it on disk or ; > >floppy all by itself without help from pager or the OS. b > 8 > Sure.  Most programs already have this; I guess people* > don't recognize it as memory management.  9 It's different from managing memory in a multitasking OS.    > > ... The OS isaC > >just some device drivers and just enough to stick the program inh > >memory and jump to it.e > >cI > >These were the bad old days as far as micros.  (On the other hand, youdF > >didn't have horrible performance because too many other people were* > >using the computer at the same time...) > 1 > Didn't have to be people that bogged them down.e   True...C  
 -- Patrick   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:49:08 +0200-$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>R Subject: Re: preventing DCL delete command from warning that a file does not exist9 Message-ID: <bha2l5$v9adp$1@ID-201992.news.uni-berlin.de>7  / "Joseph Kanney" <joseph_kanney@yahoo.com> wrote@ > hi!a >tG > I'd like to make the DCL delete command behave like the unix "rm -f",.K > i.e., I don't want to see warnings if a file is not found. If a file doesdD > not exist, I want it to do nothing, but silently. Any hints on how > to do this? Thanks!   K If you are running a current Version of VMS on an alpha box ( I am too lazy  to checkL the requirements ) you could install GNV ( a UNIX to VMS porting environment. provided by HP ) and then use $rm -f on VMS .. Peterh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:50:03 +0100n* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>2 Subject: Re: Results, Sizes of logical name tables' Message-ID: <bhagku$988$1@lore.csc.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote:o  E > The problem turned out to be the SYSGEN parameters PQL_MJTQUOTA and L > PQL_DJTQUOTA. The software used to run on a an old system with larger thanN > default values of 0 and 2048 respectively. Using autogen and MODPARAMS.DAT IL > set the new values to 4096 and 16384 respectively, and now my program runs > to completion.  E As a postscript, if the process is started from a suitably privilegedtH account*, then a /JOB_TABLE_QUOTA= could be appended in the command fileG that starts the process, assuming it isn't a bit of DCL invoked from ano EXE file or a call to CREPRC.   E I'd considered mentioning this in my earlier reply, but as a seasoned G systems archaeologist, you're probably used to the fiendish attempts by C the unknowing or unwary application writers to create deliberate or  accidental unmaintainable code.   F My certificate for cynicism is the highest qualification I possess :-)  F *Arguably, if the value for JTQUOTA is not less than /JOB_TABLE_QUOTA, no privileges areeC required specifically to elevate this value for a detached process.  -- -? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences0 nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:55:43 +0200-A From: "Mart-info @ Martinnovations BV" <mhm.info@martinnovats.nl>3) Subject: Re: Sizes of logical name tablest? Message-ID: <002301c360b8$644a0f50$29e07f50@martinnovations.nl>o   Hi,a  F Depending on the way this program is actually run it might not use the> account qouta you specified, but be subject to the PQL_ quota.  > That would also explain the difference between interactive and non-interactive behaviour.   ----- Original Message -----  - From: "Jeff Cameron" <JCam90502@jcameron.com>e To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>e% Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 7:48 AMs% Subject: Sizes of logical name tablesn    L > I know the UAF quota value JTQuota governs the size of a job's job logicalG > name table. What parameters or quotas govern the size of the process,  groupu! > and system logical name tables.u >nL > I have an old utility (executable image) written by a company no longer inL > business called SIMPART. The company's name escapes me now which simulatesH > certain physical interactions in physics. It is aborting with a simple text1 > message : "VMS error - Logical name table full"D >EL > When I run the image interactively, the error does not occur. When it runsJ > with all of it's other images and scripts in a multi-process job is when it	 > aborts.r >uK > I have already determined it is not the job table that is running out, ase IrD > have increased the Jtquota for the account that it runs under, and modifiedL > the supporting scripts and tested the image by itself, and it does not use$ > the job tables to define logicals. > K > How can I determine which logical name table it is compalining about, andw# > How do I increase the table size?o >g > Thank you. >  >a >r >r >e   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:21:26 +0200 (MET)V9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)h; Message-ID: <01KZDNBGKKBMAPKEWT@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  F > I think that in most cases anyone with a dynamic IP address is usingA > their ISP's mail server, which will have a resolvable address.    H Or, in the case of my home system, the mail server at the company which D hosts one of my domains.  (I can send email with an arbitrary From:  header, though.)  I I HIGHLY recommend these guys: http://www.dynaccess.de/, at least if you *G can read German.  (Similar to http://www.dyndns.org/, which I also use oF and am happy with, but slightly more expensive and with more advanced 
 features.)   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:24:18 +0200 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>:; Subject: Re: SMTP greylisting (was Re: Teergrube for VMS ?)t; Message-ID: <01KZDNG81SAWAPKEWT@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>C  L > >>>> As an ISP provider, I've setup email servers with RBL and reverse DNS > >>>> checking. > >>> H > >>> Do you reject stuff where the IP address does not translate to theN > >>> domain name (bad---there are many legitimate reasons to do this, i.e use > >>M > >>The IP address should translate to some domain name which translates backh > >>to the IP address. > > 6 > > But that only works with static ip's, does it not? > >  > L > I think that in most cases anyone with a dynamic IP address is using their: > ISP's mail server, which will have a resolvable address.  F Probably.  However, there can still be resolvable DNS (name-to-number I and vice versa) entries for the dynamic IP address, though it won't have ^E anything to do with the email address the customer is probably using.    A real-life example:  # MAIL> spa tcpip sh host multivax.des        BIND database   Server:   aaa.bbb.ccc.dddk   Host address    Host namen   80.129.135.124  MULTIVAX.DE   & MAIL> spa tcpip sh host 80.129.135.124        BIND database   Server:   aaa.bbb.ccc.dddt   Host address    Host name   - 80.129.135.124  p5081877C.dip0.t-ipconnect.deb   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:22:32 +0200 (MET)m9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ) Subject: Re: the newest file in directoryh; Message-ID: <01KZDF2TC6UQAPKEWT@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h  M > > I don't know WHY it works, but ;0 refers to the highest version number ofa > > each file present. > I > As to why it works, the answer is "because it was designed to work thati > way."c  , And ;-0 will show the lowest version number.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:17:04 +01002( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>) Subject: Re: the newest file in directory@9 Message-ID: <bhaibk$vkh5d$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>2   When I made the comment :-K > I don't know WHY it works, but ;0 refers to the highest version number ofH > each file present.D What I really meant was that I have never studied the source code toJ understand what happens when this value is encountered in the string beingD parsed... and now access to listings will cost me a bundle. Oh well!   The responseK > > As to why it works, the answer is "because it was designed to work thatI	 > > way."nJ is a 'taken for granted', nothing like his works by accident. After all we are talking about VMS here :-)   >h. > And ;-0 will show the lowest version number.  6 and just in case there is someone who doesn't know ;-)I ;-1 refers to the 'newest but one' version, and other negative numbers tor 'newest but ''n'' '.   -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - comh +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 01/08/2003e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.444 ************************provide an FTP based1 solution to allow users to access that software ?         D >Since H.P. has been e-mailing me patch notifications, that has been/ >good enough for an "update notification tool."  > & >What is YOUR opinion of the new ITRC? > > >J