1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 447       Contents: Charon-VAX  x VAX 6520 Re: Charon-VAX  x VAX 6520 Compaq BASIC feature or bug?  Re: Compaq BASIC feature or bug? Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting  Re: HP FUDBusting - Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego % Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.  Re: more HP layoffs  OT: What I liked from Novell show cluster3 Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP 3 RE: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP ) Re: Upgrading VMS Cluster to DS10 or ES40 ) Re: Upgrading VMS Cluster to DS10 or ES40 & using mailbox for shared memory access* Re: using mailbox for shared memory access* Re: using mailbox for shared memory access  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:00:59 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Charon-VAX  x VAX 6520 @ Message-ID: <20030814020059.40046.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>   Hello OpenVMSers !    ; Anyone experienced in shutdowning a VAX 6520 and substitute 9 it for a Charon-VAX emulation ? Just curious. As we dont  9 have a Charon-VAX VAR in Brazil it would be difficult to  1 implement the projects here, and the company I am 5 working for dont have interest to port the VAX legacy 7 applications to Alpha or Itanium ! So they will mantain 8 all the applications until they develop the new projects" and softwares for MS/Unix world !   : The VAX is clustered with an Alpha ! I imagined installing9 a CHARON-VAX server in this cluster, migrate all the VAX  : applications/binarises to the Alpha disks, reconfigure the9 products to run under the emulated VAX and  turn off the  , old VAX 6520 ! Would it be easy like this  ?  3 And... how about SNA Gateway/CT under Charon-VAX ?  3 Is it possible ?  We still having 4 or 5  Gateways  2 with  no time to turn them off.  May be in 2010 !    Regards    FC     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software  http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:22:38 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com># Subject: Re: Charon-VAX  x VAX 6520 - Message-ID: <3F3ABA2E.21564.676256@localhost>   = > Anyone experienced in shutdowning a VAX 6520 and substitute ! > it for a Charon-VAX emulation ?   C Not specifically, but it would seem possible -- provided you don't  E have any strange hardware plugged into the bus, or need more than 75   VUP's of horsepower.  E > As we dont have a Charon-VAX VAR in Brazil it would be difficult to  > implement the projects here   F I've received clearance from SRI to work with sites in South America. A I could send you the software and walk you through the migration.   < > The VAX is clustered with an Alpha ! I imagined installing; > a CHARON-VAX server in this cluster, migrate all the VAX  < > applications/binarises to the Alpha disks, reconfigure the; > products to run under the emulated VAX and  turn off the  . > old VAX 6520 ! Would it be easy like this  ?  A Pretty much.  Make the VAX work off the MSCP-served disks on the  F Alpha first.  Then, all we would need to do is image the VAX's system  disk, and you're in business.   5 > And... how about SNA Gateway/CT under Charon-VAX ?    E The SNA Gateway boxes are connected via the network, right?  In that  B case, there's no problem.  CHARON-VAX comes with complete network B support.  By the way -- your Alphas should be able to communicate 9 through the Gateways, too -- they're just DECnet devices.     > [Yes, another Shameless Plug (tm) from a CHARON-VAX reseller.]
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:48:26 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Compaq BASIC feature or bug? 9 Message-ID: <Zez_a.4561$kp4.744436@news20.bellglobal.com>    Compaq BASIC feature or bug?    M While renovating (indenting and remarking) a colleague's program I discovered H a missing "END IF" statement that gets by the complier with no errors orJ warnings. While I applaud the compiler authors for their wonderful work, IN would rather get a warning on this one. (the program's author was surprised by
 this too!)  I p.s. since I don't have a software support contract with HP/Compaq I hope % someone else will report this to them   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   	 * * * * *   F         !=============================================================)         ! title  : aaa_END_IF_anomaly.bas          ! author : Neil Rieck          ! created: 2003-08-13 5         ! purpose: demos a strange END-IF anomamly... <         !          ... in HP's Alpha BASIC V1.5-000 compiler0         ! notes  : compile this program like so:I         !              bas/optim=level=0/warn=all  aaa_END_IF_anomaly.bas F         !=============================================================         option type = explicit         set no prompt 	         ! "         declare long x1%, x2%, x3%         print "test cases:" /         print "  '1,2,3' yields steps 1 then 2" /         print "  '1,0,3' yields steps 1 then 3" /         print "  '1,0,0' yields steps 1 then 4" (         print "  '0,0,0' yields step  5"	         ! C         input "enter 3 numbers sepearated by commas? "; x1%,x2%,x3%          if x1% = 1         then             print "step 1"             if x2% = 2             then                 print "step 2"             else                 if x3% = 3 then "                     print "step 3"                 else"                     print "step 4"                 end if?     %let %anomaly=1%        ! 0=normal code, 1=disable "END IF"      %if  %anomaly=0% %then?             end if          ! anomaly: this line isn't required      %end %ifC         else                ! this ELSE seems to assume an "END IF"              print "step 5"         end if	         !          end    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:41:07 GMT " From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>) Subject: Re: Compaq BASIC feature or bug? / Message-ID: <3F3ACCD3.AF9DDDAD@telusplanet.net>   R We have support for BASIC.  I've sent your comments to WIS (appropriately edited).   Neil Rieck wrote:    > Compaq BASIC feature or bug? > O > While renovating (indenting and remarking) a colleague's program I discovered J > a missing "END IF" statement that gets by the complier with no errors orL > warnings. While I applaud the compiler authors for their wonderful work, IP > would rather get a warning on this one. (the program's author was surprised by > this too!) > K > p.s. since I don't have a software support contract with HP/Compaq I hope ' > someone else will report this to them  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  > * * * * *  > H >         !=============================================================+ >         ! title  : aaa_END_IF_anomaly.bas  >         ! author : Neil Rieck  >         ! created: 2003-08-13 7 >         ! purpose: demos a strange END-IF anomamly... > >         !          ... in HP's Alpha BASIC V1.5-000 compiler2 >         ! notes  : compile this program like so:K >         !              bas/optim=level=0/warn=all  aaa_END_IF_anomaly.bas H >         !=============================================================  >         option type = explicit >         set no prompt  >         ! $ >         declare long x1%, x2%, x3% >         print "test cases:" 1 >         print "  '1,2,3' yields steps 1 then 2" 1 >         print "  '1,0,3' yields steps 1 then 3" 1 >         print "  '1,0,0' yields steps 1 then 4" * >         print "  '0,0,0' yields step  5" >         ! E >         input "enter 3 numbers sepearated by commas? "; x1%,x2%,x3%  >         if x1% = 1 >         then >             print "step 1" >             if x2% = 2 >             then  >                 print "step 2" >             else! >                 if x3% = 3 then $ >                     print "step 3" >                 else$ >                     print "step 4" >                 end ifA >     %let %anomaly=1%        ! 0=normal code, 1=disable "END IF"  >     %if  %anomaly=0% %thenA >             end if          ! anomaly: this line isn't required  >     %end %ifE >         else                ! this ELSE seems to assume an "END IF"  >             print "step 5" >         end if >         ! 
 >         end    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:26:56 +0000 (UTC)  From: phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting, Message-ID: <bhdvtg$15iv$2@nyheter.ipsec.se>  O In comp.unix.admin Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: [ > In article <bh16ai$1pjj$4@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:  >>  M >> After all, the PDP-11 happens to be one that does. Split I&D and pure text G >> code in V7 and 2BSD had non-executable stacks by default... but 4BSD J >> didn't, and running 4BSD is what most RISCs seem to have been optimised >> for.   F >    RSX-11M also split code into I and D space, and under that I have* Correction, RSX-11m+ has split I-D space.   F >    executed code on the stack.  Splitting up code into I and D spaceF >    on the PDP-11, or pure and impure on the PDP-10, or EXE and NOEXEI >    PSECTs on VAXen and Alpha, does NOT prevent one from jumping to the  F >    stack and executing code there.  These processors don't care whatI >    address is in the PC as long as it's mapped to a readable address as I >    they don't have, or don't fully implement, a no-execute bit in their ' >    hardware level of page protection.   F Well, according to my memory, when using pdp-11 that supported it thenK data references was mapped against one set of ADR, executable used another. K Processors with I-D capability ( 11/73 ? ) had i third set of APR, selected  by a modebit is PSR.  @ So placing something at data location 0x1000 and then jumping toD 0x1000 did not execute the contents of (data)0x1000 but (code)0x1000  8 Memory starts fading away, but this is the general idea.  - VAX has a simular but vastly inferior way :-)          --   Peter Hkanson          7         IPSec  Sverige      ( At Gothenburg Riverside ) J            Sorry about my e-mail address, but i'm trying to keep spam out,; 	   remove "icke-reklam" if you feel for mailing me. Thanx.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Aug 2003 14:50:08 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting3 Message-ID: <1yABGX2ZVPeW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <bhdvtg$15iv$2@nyheter.ipsec.se>, phn@icke-reklam.ipsec.nu writes:  > H > Well, according to my memory, when using pdp-11 that supported it thenM > data references was mapped against one set of ADR, executable used another. M > Processors with I-D capability ( 11/73 ? ) had i third set of APR, selected  > by a modebit is PSR. > B > So placing something at data location 0x1000 and then jumping toF > 0x1000 did not execute the contents of (data)0x1000 but (code)0x1000 > : > Memory starts fading away, but this is the general idea.  C    Some PDP-11 had hardware address spaces so small they were flat  C    (16 bit or less).  Those didn't use APR and such and the PDP-11  D    architecture didn't require them.  PDP-11/34 was one such little     monster that I used.   F    For systems suporting larger hardware address spaces generally one E    could can change the contents of the APR to get to the address in  G    question.  IIRC one normally let the overlay loader handle this for  G    memory resident overlays, but I don't recall that being a privileged C    operation.  Exception instructions vectoring to/from kernel mode A    could also change this so the OS didn't have to be in the same D    address space as the user mode code, but it was mode based memoryD    protection which protected the code and structures of the kernel.A    We had trouble with DMA devices that didn't account for memory 5    mapping when we ported an application to an 11/44.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 01:15:46 +0000 (UTC) & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting0 Message-ID: <bhens2$19ft$1@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>  3 In article <x$XpVFg8Cax6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:I > In article <bh16ai$1pjj$4@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter  > da Silva) writes:  > > N > > After all, the PDP-11 happens to be one that does. Split I&D and pure textH > > code in V7 and 2BSD had non-executable stacks by default... but 4BSDK > > didn't, and running 4BSD is what most RISCs seem to have been optimised  > > for. > F >    RSX-11M also split code into I and D space, and under that I have  >    executed code on the stack.  K How do you address it? Or did it explicitly map the stack into both address - spaces (seems wasteful, given the page size).   L Split I&D in V7 performed instruction fetches (and PC relative data fetches)J from a separate 64k address space than data access. If you branched to theL stack address in data space you would execute code from wherever that mapped to in address space.  L If RSX-11M didn't do that, then we're talking about a different concept than what V7 did.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 01:19:48 +0000 (UTC) & From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting0 Message-ID: <bheo3k$19ft$2@jeeves.eng.abbnm.com>  3 In article <1yABGX2ZVPeW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org> wrote:E >    Some PDP-11 had hardware address spaces so small they were flat  E >    (16 bit or less).  Those didn't use APR and such and the PDP-11  F >    architecture didn't require them.  PDP-11/34 was one such little  >    monster that I used.   H ALL PDP-11s have user mode addresses that are 16-bit or less, regardless" of the physical address bus width.  H >    For systems suporting larger hardware address spaces generally one G >    could can change the contents of the APR to get to the address in   >    question.  M It seems to be stretching things a bit to get the stack smashing exploit code J to execute privileged instructions that aren't found in the task's address space before it's even run.    --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:35:42 -0400 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: HP FUDBusting2 Message-ID: <sPidnVTTurUfeqeiXTWJgA@metrocast.net>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:1yABGX2ZVPeW@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   D >    Some PDP-11 had hardware address spaces so small they were flatD >    (16 bit or less).  Those didn't use APR and such and the PDP-11E >    architecture didn't require them.  PDP-11/34 was one such little  >    monster that I used.   H The 11/34 had an 18-bit (256 KB) address space managed by the normal APRF mechanism (though no I&D space separation or supervisor mode support).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:13:52 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>6 Subject: Re: IBM Beats HP for Computing Deal with Lego< Message-ID: <3f3a7fe0$0$32536$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Mike Naime wrote: K > Ok, So just exactly what HP product(s) are they phasing out here???  From I > the detail that is not included here, it could be 230 desktop/server PC N > systems that where being replaced.  We are not necessarily talking about VMS > servers here.    My guess a bit of everything:     * VMS
    * Tru64    * Windows  > Lego was a DEC site for many many years. First VMS. Then later with a lot of Tru64.  8 And I belive they did a lot of Compaq Proliant stuff the later years.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:49:56 -0400 ) From: "Chris Moore" <ask.here@reply.here> . Subject: Re: itrc - H.P. I.T. Resource Center.9 Message-ID: <T8A_a.4588$kp4.759742@news20.bellglobal.com>   I One other problem is that patches for older versions such as 5.5-2H4, 7.1 K etc. have been omitted. (VAX only shows 6.2, 7.2 and 7.3, Alpha is similar)   I I realize that not much is going on there, but some of those versions are = still listed by HP (sorry...'hp') as "prior version support".   L Looks like I better download everything to my own repository, just in case I8 encounter yet another "obsolete" system to be supported.      8 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> wrote in message< news:6.0.0.14.2.20030812085038.04beee50@mail.patmedia.net...! At 08:26 AM 8/12/2003, you wrote: K >In article <bh96en$u4g$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>, hamilton@Encompasserve.org  >(Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:  > > I > > I "heard" about it because I susbscribe to the patch mailing list.  I C > > susbscribe as a "check" against the "patches" thread in the VMS  > conference on D > > EISNER::.  I suppose if one were to scour the ITRC web site on a > regular basis,; > > one would discover the addition of the patches in ITRC.  >  >   And the URL is?   ' Here is the email I received yesterday:   #       ==== begin email message ====   7 Improved Access to HP Tru64 UNIX and HP OpenVMS Patches     D As part of HP's continued commitment to provide our customers with aC world-class customer  experience, we are introducing a new customer B solution for obtaining patches for HP OpenVMS, HP  Tru64 UNIX, andI associated layered products.  Now, you can get these patches at the HP IT K Resource  Center (ITRC) and take advantage of this one-stop IT professional L support site's advanced patch  capabilities and comprehensive support tools.  @ This new solution will provide customers the following features:6          One stop shopping for all HP produced patches4          Improved search capabilities and navigationJ          Ability to download all desired and dependent patches in a single= transaction thereby           saving time and reducing errors   A All users of DSN link, http://www.support.compaq.com/patches, and E ftp1.compaq.com will now be  directed to the HP IT Resource Center to E obtain patches for HP Tru64 UNIX, HP OpenVMS, and  associated layered  products patches.   K The existing patch distribution sites will be retired in September 2003. We I encouraged you to begin  using the new ITRC services immediately and take K advantage of the advanced patching and other  technical support features of 	 the site.    Getting Started:F When you need to find and download a patch or patch kit, use HP ITRC's Patch Database.   1 Begin at HP's IT Resource Center (ITRC) web site:  http://www.itrc.hp.com  @   From the ITRC home page, select "individual patches" under the/ maintenance and support (hp  products) heading.   G If you are first time user of the ITRC, you will need to register for a E user ID and password.  Follow the instruction on the log in screen to H register. If you are already registered with the  ITRC, log in with yourJ user ID and password. [if you are registered to use the forums there, that" registration is sufficient -- Ken]  E For more information on searching and downloading patches, follow the I "Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS  patches" link in the right side bar of the patch F main menu. For more information on the IT Resource  Center, follow theD "introducing the ITRC" right sidebar linkage off the ITRC home page.      ==== End email message ====   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:38:45 -0500 , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> Subject: Re: more HP layoffs/ Message-ID: <vjlq14s6b8og70@corp.supernews.com>   I Got a call just yesterday from a long term DEC--->CPQ--->HP employee.  No L longer.  He and several others in that category were given their pink slips. This in the Chicagoland area.   K Guess that's one way to please Wall Street.  But that's several less highly I qualified people to rely on for support, etc.  Guess that doesn't matter.    Dave...   4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message2 news:8ae_a.3867$VG.139059@news20.bellglobal.com...4 > I just read the following article at the inquirer:+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10996 < > If true, it looks like HP is still in slash and burn mode. > L > BTW, I heard a recent rumour about Fall layoffs in the group that supportsA > TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS. (something about HP getting rid of  contractors;F > and this work being spun off to sub-contractors by Compaq before the merger). > Has anyone else heard this?  >  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ : > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:53:25 -0700 (PDT) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>% Subject: OT: What I liked from Novell @ Message-ID: <20030814015325.87436.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  
 By the way...   4 I remember Novell had their own GINA for Windows NT.4 GINA is known as that Ctrl+alt+del login screen used6 to authenticate in the domains and access the desktop.8 It was a good product which we used to install under WNT7 as a service (If I remember) to login and authenticate  8 in both networks MS + Novell certifing in the MS Domain  and Novell NDS !    , Any idea about the future of this product ?   9 Should be good an "open" version , even it uses MS Api's  9 I believe ! We could log in and authenticate in a lot of  4 environments, products !  May be an integration with9 Citrix (for "Terminal Access Only") or a specific product < to login without the need to enter the desktop. For password= synchronization too ! It would be an universal client, etc !    * Anyone experienced BMC's Control-SA too ?    Regards    FC       =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software  http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 04:23:02 +0100 (BST) = From: =?iso-8859-1?q?amit=20sawhney?= <thick_guy_9@yahoo.com>  Subject: show cluster @ Message-ID: <20030814032302.78618.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Hello all,3 How can I find the status of a cluster member using 
 SHOW CLUSTER.   4 I had a problem yesterday when node A in the cluster1 was down, but SH CLUSTER in node B showed both as 0 members. How can I find out if both are actively running?   THanks in advance...   ===== 	 Sincerely  Amit S  H ________________________________________________________________________E Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo! ( Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:35:22 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> < Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP9 Message-ID: <_pw_a.197053$EQ5.17682@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   J Just to make sure that it's clear, the companies I've worked for that haveC used PL/1 had paid for support to Digital and Uniprise (through the L Digital/Compaq maintenance agreements).  After Kednos took over the product,H it was felt that there wasn't any plan to enhance the product and it wasK decided not to pay.  None of the companies run any of the compiler versions E nor RTLs that Kednos has released.  They are running the last version 0 released by Uniprise for which support was paid.  L Of all products used, PL/1 is the only one where it was decided that supportG would not be paid.  With the money I see going to Oracle and CA, that's K quite an accomplishment.  Not paying for support certainly isn't desirable, . but I understand the decisions that were made.  J If you want the support dollars, do something to enhance the product.  I'dL suggested these to you in 2000 when you took over the product, but they seem to have fallen on deaf ears:A  - Keep the PLI$STARLET up to date with newer versions of OpenVMS   - 64 bit enhancements+  - Reinstate the personal use license class C  - Include the updated RTLs in OpenVMS distribution as Uniprise did   D One more thing: fix that acidic relationship you have with HP that'sI compelled them to rewrite SDL/MONITOR and to alienate all their potential L IPF customers who have PL/1.  I doubt it's all your fault, but I'm sure some	 if it is.    -Jeff   L The opinions I've expressed are mine alone and do not express the opinion of" any company for which I've worked.  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEECHMAA.tom@kednos.com... G > The HP/compaq's treatment of PL/I certainly isn't founded on any kind D > of defensible business practice, but on the other hand, since your= > company has not paid for PL/I support in more than 5 years, @ > (during which time we have issued two releases of the product,> > made all documentation and kits available for free download)$ > you have little to complain about. >  >  > >-----Original Message----- 7 > >From: Jeff Goodwin [mailto:jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com] ) > >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:32 AM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? > >Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP  > >  > >  > > G > >I got a call from Sun a couple of weeks ago concerning HP's mythical D > >announcement that OpenVMS had been EOL'd.  By now, I suspect most	 remaining ; > >OpenVMS customers are on to this re-occurring deception.  > > C > >Unfortunately, it will be Digital/Compaq/HP's pathetic treatment  > >of the PL/1K > >compiler that will eventually drive our company to another vendor.  (No, F > >we're not converting it to C++ so we can run on IPF.  If we have to perform @ > >a large-scale conversion, it'll be away from the company that > >forced us into D > >the conversion).  Based on what other divisions are doing in this company,1 > >there's a good chance that vendor will be Sun.  > >  > >-Jeff > > A > >"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message : > >news:cf15391e.0307291812.3327f013@posting.google.com...I > >> In a campaign called 'HP Away', Sun is trying to take customers from I > >> HP, but based on the customers quoted in these articles, they aren't  > >> having much luck. > >>	 > >[snip]  > >  > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C > >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003  > >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A > Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:22:48 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> < Subject: RE: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEEMHMAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Jeff Goodwin [mailto:jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com] * >Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:35 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= >Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP  >  > K >Just to make sure that it's clear, the companies I've worked for that have D >used PL/1 had paid for support to Digital and Uniprise (through the@ >Digital/Compaq maintenance agreements).  After Kednos took over
 >the product, I >it was felt that there wasn't any plan to enhance the product and it was L >decided not to pay.  None of the companies run any of the compiler versionsF >nor RTLs that Kednos has released.  They are running the last version1 >released by Uniprise for which support was paid.   B Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought you were connected with Applied
 Materials,) and they certainly got a version from us.    > @ >Of all products used, PL/1 is the only one where it was decided
 >that support H >would not be paid.  With the money I see going to Oracle and CA, that'sL >quite an accomplishment.  Not paying for support certainly isn't desirable,/ >but I understand the decisions that were made.   J Support fees are used not only to fix bugs (and at the moment we have none3 reported)  but also to keep the product up to date.    > K >If you want the support dollars, do something to enhance the product.  I'd C >suggested these to you in 2000 when you took over the product, but 
 >they seem >to have fallen on deaf ears: B > - Keep the PLI$STARLET up to date with newer versions of OpenVMS   We have done that.   > - 64 bit enhancements   K Would be pointless without HP's support since we interface to GEM on Alpha.   , > - Reinstate the personal use license class  G We have no requests to do so, and we don't have any request from you on  file for that." Support for Hobbyist was provided.  D > - Include the updated RTLs in OpenVMS distribution as Uniprise did  E We would be happy to, and have offered to HP to do so, but they don't   seem to think that is important.   > E >One more thing: fix that acidic relationship you have with HP that's J >compelled them to rewrite SDL/MONITOR and to alienate all their potentialC >IPF customers who have PL/1.  I doubt it's all your fault, but I'm 
 >sure some
 >if it is.  H We took over from UniPrise some 8 months after they went out of businessJ received no support from Compaq, and indeed were even missing some sources which J we had to reconstruct.  During those 8 months Compaq charged its customers for I support, but were unable to provide it, meanwhile they logged a number of D bugs which we ultimately were obligated to fix ( and did so), but HP pocketedD the money.  In one case, we managed to have the fees refunded to the	 customer. I I do not think that is any way to run a business.  We try to take care of  our L customers.  If you feel strongly about your views take it up with the CEO of HP, K but you hardly have a right to criticise us when you aren't even a customer  nor L do you understand the dynamics of the situation.  I have attempted to reasonJ with HP to the level of Mark Gorham, but there has been no result to date. IfI HP is a customer driven company then your input to them should be valued.  ToI port PL/I to IPF is not a significant effort since we use GEM and it runs  there!    I When Alpha comes to the EOL you can still move to Sun or IBM, in fact the  Sun L PL/I compiler was licensed by me to Liant in 1988.  The IBM PL/I compiler is a F solid product, has a builtin XML parser and supports 64 bit and object orientedI extensions.  We have obligations to continue supporting PL/I on Alpha for I a number of years.  You are not alone in your assertion that IPF  without  PL/I is not a viable migration path.    >  >-Jeff > B >The opinions I've expressed are mine alone and do not express the >opinion of # >any company for which I've worked.  > / >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEECHMAA.tom@kednos.com...H >> The HP/compaq's treatment of PL/I certainly isn't founded on any kindE >> of defensible business practice, but on the other hand, since your > >> company has not paid for PL/I support in more than 5 years,A >> (during which time we have issued two releases of the product, ? >> made all documentation and kits available for free download) % >> you have little to complain about.  >> >> >> >-----Original Message-----8 >> >From: Jeff Goodwin [mailto:jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com]* >> >Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:32 AM >> >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp@ >> >Subject: Re: Sun tries to woo AlphaServer users away from HP >> > >> > >> >H >> >I got a call from Sun a couple of weeks ago concerning HP's mythicalE >> >announcement that OpenVMS had been EOL'd.  By now, I suspect mosto
 >remaining< >> >OpenVMS customers are on to this re-occurring deception. >> >D >> >Unfortunately, it will be Digital/Compaq/HP's pathetic treatment >> >of the PL/1dL >> >compiler that will eventually drive our company to another vendor.  (No,G >> >we're not converting it to C++ so we can run on IPF.  If we have tor >performA >> >a large-scale conversion, it'll be away from the company that- >> >forced us intoE >> >the conversion).  Based on what other divisions are doing in thisP	 >company, 2 >> >there's a good chance that vendor will be Sun. >> >	 >> >-Jeff6 >> >B >> >"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message; >> >news:cf15391e.0307291812.3327f013@posting.google.com...AJ >> >> In a campaign called 'HP Away', Sun is trying to take customers fromJ >> >> HP, but based on the customers quoted in these articles, they aren't >> >> having much luck.t >> >>a
 >> >[snip] >> > >> > >> >---n* >> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.> >> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).D >> >Version: 6.0.502 / Virus Database: 300 - Release Date: 7/18/2003 >> > >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.n= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).VB >> Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003 >> >t >u >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.l; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).t@ >Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003 >n ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).? Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:16:21 +0100=9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>Y2 Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS Cluster to DS10 or ES40? Message-ID: <7b947e214c.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>-  / In message <4hbchb.rim.ln@dadsys2.fuller.local>32           Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> wrote:   > Grealy, Patrick wrote: > H > > Our current cluster is DEC7610 + DEC2100 + HSJ40/StorageWorks. We'reL > > considering the cheapest way to migrate to 21st century and maintain theK > > redundancy of the cluster. Any suggestions considering DS10 vs. ES40? -  > > Thanks.n > M > ES40.  You can put a CIPCA-BA (PCI-CI port) in the ES40, but you can't put  3 > one in a DS10 (or, at least, it's not supported).e > M > Oh, by the way, when your 21st century friends start asking "Why don't you tI > upgrade to SAN", you can say that you've been using one ever since you k> > started using your HSJ40, and that they work, and work well. > L > At our shop, we've been using SAN technology since installing HSC50 (yes, " > that's hsC50) over 15 years ago.  K It took me a long time to realise that. Of course our IT management got alldI enthusiastic about a SAN, but could not be persuaded that we had anythingm like it.  J The techies however were impressed. They installed a set of disks in theirI model, configured it as a Raid array, and waited 9 hours for it to become H usable. I did the same on the HSZ50, and started restoring data while itJ initialised. It did make me wonder whether replacing a hot-swapped disk onC "their" system would require downtime (not during the hot-swap, buty' afterwards, replacing the failed disk.)c   -- h
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 03:53:05 GMTn- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>P2 Subject: Re: Upgrading VMS Cluster to DS10 or ES40> Message-ID: <BID_a.270610$BA.61877781@twister.columbus.rr.com>   Stuart Fuller wrote:M > ES40.  You can put a CIPCA-BA (PCI-CI port) in the ES40, but you can't put  3 > one in a DS10 (or, at least, it's not supported).p > M > Oh, by the way, when your 21st century friends start asking "Why don't you 4I > upgrade to SAN", you can say that you've been using one ever since you a> > started using your HSJ40, and that they work, and work well. >   G Upgrade that HSJ40 to a HSJ50 (which are really cheap now) and you get a free hardware RAID !   jp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:17:21 -0500 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>/ Subject: using mailbox for shared memory accesse. Message-ID: <3F3A9CD1.4BEABF5C@pressenter.com>   Hello,  @ I'm working on a project that needs inter-process communication.  C I need to share some data, not a lot, maybe a couple hundred bytes.   7 Anyway, I thought I'd use locks and mailboxes for this.=    B Say Process "A" is the first to create a mailbox, and is given theB channel in return, for use in later QIOs. While "A" has a channel,/ process "B" starts to access the same mailbox.    H I want to both "A" and "B" to read and write info to/from the mailbox. I? intend to use locks to keep them from tripping over each other.r    G The way it looks, mailboxes, are set up so that once something is read,= it's taken out of the mailbox.  9 Is there a way to make mailboxes retain the information?    0 Can mailboxes always be read from the beginning?    ; Or must I read, then immediately re-write the data back in?     - Or is there a better way to accomplish this?    D I was going to use the value block of the lock, but there's too much  info for the 16 bytes available.  C Also, is the channel number to a given mailbox the same for all the F processes accessing the mailbox? Will "A" have the same channel numberC as "B" ? On the single node I've done the testing on, it looks likelF it... but i'd like to know... I haven't seen anything in the docs yet.       Thanks in advance,   Lyndon     -- rG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of mym	 employer.d    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 02:14:36 GMTN% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> 3 Subject: Re: using mailbox for shared memory access-; Message-ID: <ggC_a.90119$o27.1991435@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>m  @ Not an expert here, but from what I can remember of playing withL task-to-task mailboxes on different nodes (MId 90's)... On the surface, thisH sounds like a good idea to retain the data.   But what happens when yourL system has been up for a year or longer???  If you do not get rid of the oldB data, at some point you are going to fill up the mailbox and looseK everything when it crashes.  Do you need to get rid of the old data at someh time?p  L It sounds like you are needing a global memory area.  Or possibly an indexedJ RMS file to write too.  We had a process that accepted multiple feeds intoL the same mailbox that read and stuffed the messages into what became a LARGEL indexed RMS files.  Other processes where then able to search and manipulate this common data.n   MikeL Opinions expressed here are neither the opinions of my employer, or my wife! :-)=  9 Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message ( news:3F3A9CD1.4BEABF5C@pressenter.com... > Hello, >uB > I'm working on a project that needs inter-process communication. >sE > I need to share some data, not a lot, maybe a couple hundred bytes.s >p9 > Anyway, I thought I'd use locks and mailboxes for this.i >r >aD > Say Process "A" is the first to create a mailbox, and is given theD > channel in return, for use in later QIOs. While "A" has a channel,0 > process "B" starts to access the same mailbox. >cJ > I want to both "A" and "B" to read and write info to/from the mailbox. IA > intend to use locks to keep them from tripping over each other.e >  >pI > The way it looks, mailboxes, are set up so that once something is read,   > it's taken out of the mailbox. >4: > Is there a way to make mailboxes retain the information? > 2 > Can mailboxes always be read from the beginning? >  >,= > Or must I read, then immediately re-write the data back in?r >  >e. > Or is there a better way to accomplish this? > F > I was going to use the value block of the lock, but there's too much" > info for the 16 bytes available. > E > Also, is the channel number to a given mailbox the same for all theeH > processes accessing the mailbox? Will "A" have the same channel numberE > as "B" ? On the single node I've done the testing on, it looks likenH > it... but i'd like to know... I haven't seen anything in the docs yet. >  >e >  > Thanks in advance, >e > Lyndon >  >" > --I > My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my  > employer.- >- >-J > The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't > have > to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 02:03:41 GMTm+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>s3 Subject: Re: using mailbox for shared memory accesss6 Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308131900350.11440@jaipur>  * On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Lyndon Bartels wrote:D > Say Process "A" is the first to create a mailbox, and is given theD > channel in return, for use in later QIOs. While "A" has a channel,0 > process "B" starts to access the same mailbox. > J > I want to both "A" and "B" to read and write info to/from the mailbox. IA > intend to use locks to keep them from tripping over each other.  >e  D Sounds complicated.  Just create two mailboxes.  One associated with, process A and one associated with process B.  I Process A creates a mailbox "A" and issues reads to the mailbox.  ProcesstJ B creates mailbox "B" and issues reads from that mailbox.  Process A opensC mailbox "B" and writes a message into the mailbox.  Process B opense2 mailbox "A" and writes a message into the mailbox.  I Or you could have process A create both mailboxes "A" and "B".  Process AeH opens mailbox "A" and reads and opens mailbox "B" and writes.  Process B= opens mailbox "B" and reads and opens mailbox "A" and writes.a   -Ryan    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.447 ************************