1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 23 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 465       Contents: Re: 306GB drives!  Re: 306GB drives! - Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.  Account creation info  Re: Account creation info  Re: Account creation info ! Re: BG Device Limit on TCP/IP 5.3 ! Re: BG Device Limit on TCP/IP 5.3  Re: Calculating RESHASHTBL Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error  Re: DCL Raise error > Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components...> Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components... Re: DSSI problem" Re: HP's site for patches -- down?F I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!J Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!J Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!J Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!J Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com Re: MOP server Re:  MOP server  Re:  MOP server  Re: MOP server. Re: Mount DQB0 gets 'allready allocated' error. Re: Mount DQB0 gets 'allready allocated' error  mounting remote disks on VAX/VMS$ Re: mounting remote disks on VAX/VMS$ Re: mounting remote disks on VAX/VMS  OpenVMS Jobs, OpenVMS.org etc... OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: SFTP8 Shadow or Raid.  - Don't do both!  WAS Re: 306GB drives!3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) 3 Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...) ( Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal./ Re: volume shadowing with 2 x IDE disks on Ds10 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 11:32:30 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: 306GB drives!= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0308221032.7fa596d6@posting.google.com>    Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<Gxc1b.1132$Ct.799318088@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>... > Keith Parris wrote: F > > This strategy works fine until the controller [pair] fails, or theF > > datacenter in which the EVA is located is destroyed by a disaster. > @ > unless your redundant controller is in another building up to H > 30-50Kilometers away in another city along with an entirely redundant I > cluster..  So in essence, you have 4 controllers (2 controller pairs).  < > The question is really "how much $$$ is your data worth?". > F > EVA's have the ability to replicate itself to an entirely different 3 > controller over a Wide-area SAN using dark-fibre.     As do HSG, XP, etc. controllers.  F Controller-based data replication is certainly an appropriate solutionE for disaster tolerance in many cases.  Often it's the ONLY option for > any sort of disaster-tolerance for platforms with poor clusterE support.  And it's very popular for disaster recovery, where Recovery # Time Objectives are less-stringent.   @ But more commonly in the OpenVMS Cluster world, HBVS tends to beC preferred in disaster-tolerant clusters, for the following reasons: C 1) With controller-based replication, failover between sites is not D automatic, and is difficult to automate (at best, one typically seesF pre-written scripts for failover that get initiated manually), so it'sC only appropriate if your Recovery Time Objective is loose enough to D allow the time for this failover to take place.  HBVS allows faster,F and fully-automated, failover, without requiring application downtime.B 2) With controller-based replication, data is typically accessibleD from only one site at a time (at best, read-only access is available= at the remote site).  All I/Os (both reads and writes) to the D mirrorset from systems at the remote site must be done remotely, andC suffer the inter-site latency.  With HBVS, reads can be directed to F the shadowset member disks at the same site; only writes to the remote# shadowset members must go remotely. F 3) Inter-site links are expensive, particularly at 30-50 km distances.F With a VMS cluster, you need an SCS interconnet between sites.  To useF controller-based replication, you need an additional interconnect that@ can carry Fibre Channel traffic (or conversion boxes to allow FCE traffic to share the bridged interconnect used for SCS).  Using HBVS, A you have the choice of MSCP-serving remote I/Os over the same SCS ? interconnect, and/or using access to disks through a FC-capable 
 interconnect. D 4) VMS Clusters have a Quorum scheme to prevent uncoordinated accessF to the multiple copies of the data that mirrorset members at differentC sites represents.  With controller-based data replication, you must > basically use humans to replace the Quorum Scheme and the HBVS? Generation Number algorithms, keeping track of (through failure > events) which copy of the data is the most up-to-date and onlyC allowing user access and updates to that copy at any given point in  time.   E There are disaster-tolerant VMS clusters in place which actually have E 3 datacenters (plus a quorum node in a 4th site), where each of the 3 @ sites has a valid copy of the data, and the cluster can continueC operating despite loss of any 2 of those 3 datacenters without data ! loss or downtime, thanks to HBVS.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:44:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: 306GB drives!3 Message-ID: <hccQeRRXSEl5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0308221032.7fa596d6@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   G > There are disaster-tolerant VMS clusters in place which actually have G > 3 datacenters (plus a quorum node in a 4th site), where each of the 3 B > sites has a valid copy of the data, and the cluster can continueE > operating despite loss of any 2 of those 3 datacenters without data # > loss or downtime, thanks to HBVS.   & So does the Quorum node have 2 votes ?   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 20:56:42 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.) Message-ID: <MYnF44t70url@elias.decus.ch>   q In article <dlHCZ5Atlz2z@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: p > In article <aus-F51DAF.18030120082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:E >> Is it possible to tell Open VMS that the client terminal is using   >> Unicode character code?   >>  C >> I'm trying to use the Terminal in Mac OS X with German Umlautes.  > J >    You don't need Unicode to get an umlaute.  You need a better terminalJ >    emulator.   If you get the X server from Apple you can run a DECterm,6 >    and map one of the non-DECish keys to be Compose. >    A good suggestion.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:49:39 -0700! From: meloph@csc-scc.gc.ca (Phil)  Subject: Account creation info= Message-ID: <1ac0308e.0308221149.5310746e@posting.google.com>    HI,   @ How can I see who created a user account with VMS.  I was told aD utility called Ferret existed for VMS that can get this infomation. C If anyone knows of a simpler way please let me know.  All I need to D know is which account was logged on when user account X was created.   Thanks,    Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:12:25 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> " Subject: Re: Account creation info' Message-ID: <3F469549.FCB1EFC6@fsi.net>    Phil wrote:  >  > HI,  > B > How can I see who created a user account with VMS.  I was told aE > utility called Ferret existed for VMS that can get this infomation. E > If anyone knows of a simpler way please let me know.  All I need to F > know is which account was logged on when user account X was created.  E Some of that may be available in the OPCOM log or maybe the ACCOUNTNG ? file, if the default Audit server settings are still in effect.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:23:07 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> " Subject: Re: Account creation info8 Message-ID: <vBx1b.7143$re.157512@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  : David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3F469549.FCB1EFC6@fsi.net... 
 > Phil wrote:  > >  > > HI,  > > D > > How can I see who created a user account with VMS.  I was told aG > > utility called Ferret existed for VMS that can get this infomation. G > > If anyone knows of a simpler way please let me know.  All I need to H > > know is which account was logged on when user account X was created. > G > Some of that may be available in the OPCOM log or maybe the ACCOUNTNG A > file, if the default Audit server settings are still in effect.  >   L If  you have something loke ConsoleWorks to keep your console logs,  you canL see exactly who made the change.  Like Dave said, you may be able to go backJ and look at the OPERATOR.LOG file if they did not clean that up after they' made the changes to cover their tracks.    > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:59:07 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> * Subject: Re: BG Device Limit on TCP/IP 5.3' Message-ID: <3F46922B.318419D5@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > n > In article <eb8f4d7b.0308220524.66aadc0d@posting.google.com>, vinit.adya@mizuhocbus.com (Vinit Adya) writes:h > > Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message news:<vkblpihqhp5612@corp.supernews.com>...I > >> Hoff, your esteemed colleague Gerard Labadie kindly supplied me with I > >> a very neat hack (in the good sense of the word) to enable more than I > >> 9999 BG devices to be created.  I never got round to testing it (the E > >> ECO 2 for TCP/IP Services v5.3 fixed the problem my customer was H > >> having at the time). Gerard himself tested the hack and it appearedH > >> to work.  Of course, I realise that you (HP) would not proffer this > >> as a supported solution.  > >> > >> Roy Omond > >> Blue Bubble Ltd.  > >  > > Roy,; > > Would yow want to share the "hack" with the rest of us? G > > I have been affected with the BG device limit beacuse of the Bug in I > > TCP/IP code, that fails to deallocate the BG devices. With the result F > > i end up with thousands of BG devices allocated to the ORACLE PMON > > processes in the system.F > > Since i cannot apply the patch/fix to prod immidiately, your trickH > > might save me from restarting databases (or the entire node in worst' > > case :( ) in the middle of the day.  > H > Why can't you apply a patch/fix to production immediately if you _can_6 > use an unsupported undocumented hack on production ?  @ I suspect it may be the difference between possible downtime andG definite downtime, and the probability of downtime in either case (100% 	 vs. ??%).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:37:51 GMT ; From: "John Gemignani, Jr." <jon-nope@thiswontworkossc.net> * Subject: Re: BG Device Limit on TCP/IP 5.3; Message-ID: <Pzz1b.6429$Nc.3885922@news1.news.adelphia.net>   : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message) news:vkblpihqhp5612@corp.supernews.com...  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: H > > In article <bi34ok$qvr$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:= > > :vinit.adya@mizuhocbus.com (Vinit Adya) writes in article C <eb8f4d7b.0308211019.251cb6c5@posting.google.com> dated 21 Aug 2003  11:19:05 -0700: A > > :>Do we still have the BG device limit of 10K  on TCPIP V5.3?  > > : K > > :Apparantly so.  My long-uptime systems have their BG device numbers in  the < > > :range 0..9999.  Running OpenVMS/Alpha 7.3-1, TCPIP 5.3. > > J > >   The expected BGDRIVER-related 9999 unit limit increases won't arriveI > >   any earlier than the TCP/IP Services V5.4 release.  If this feature J > >   does officially make it into the V5.4 release, please then check theE > >   documentation for associated configuration details and related.  > F > Hoff, your esteemed colleague Gerard Labadie kindly supplied me withF > a very neat hack (in the good sense of the word) to enable more thanF > 9999 BG devices to be created.  I never got round to testing it (theB > ECO 2 for TCP/IP Services v5.3 fixed the problem my customer wasE > having at the time). Gerard himself tested the hack and it appeared E > to work.  Of course, I realise that you (HP) would not proffer this  > as a supported solution. >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd. >   J There's no hack.  I implemented up to 32K BG devices in V5.4, as well as a fast create/deleteK option on the UCBs.  It spares the CPU cache and reduces contention for the  I/O mutex.  InG conjunction with other performance improvements, we can run WAY MORE IP 
 traffic on MP & systems than we have ever done before.  L The mechanism was implemented in V5.3 but not documented because I wanted to be sure J that it got a lot of use.  We have been running some big machines with it, and there have not been any problems.  H If you set the limit up on V5.4, you will even see excess-32K BG devices (you can't $ASSIGN them, but they exist).  H I swear, DEC/Compaq/HP should erect a statue to me for all the work that I've put in that product.    -John    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:23:11 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) # Subject: Re: Calculating RESHASHTBL = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0308221423.791795df@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0308191158.35eea138@posting.google.com>... C > "... As a general guideline, one resource hash table entry should E > exist for every four locks in the sytem. Thus, RESHASHTBL should be H > one-quarter the value of LOCKIDTBL, rounded up to the closest power of > 2."  > G > However, AUTOGEN consistently produces values for RESHASHTBL that are  > much lower than this.   F When a new lock request is made, VMS hashes the resource name and that? ends up being an index into the Resource Hash Table.  Different D resource names may hash to the same index, so in that event they are7 chained off the same entry.  The idea of various sizing B recommendations is to keep the average chain length fairly low.  AD hash table size of 1/4 the number of locks would result in chains ofE length 4 on the average.  1/2 would have chains of average length 2.  C 3/4, as suggested by an earlier poster would have chains of average B length 4/3.  Identical size would have chains of average length 1.  < > Now I don't have a particular performance problem to solve  F I wouldn't waste much time on it, unless you do a lot of lock requestsC and CPU time is very short, while you have more than enough memory.   < > Should I just trust AUTOGEN or go by the one-quarter rule?  , Won't normally make a noticeable difference.  7 > How dangerous is it if this paremeter is set too low?   D Just means the chain lengths for each resource hash table entry willA be larger on the average and thus take more CPU time to traverse.    F > I also noticed that changing MIN_RESHASHTBL doesn't cause AUTOGEN to > change any other params.  ? As I recall, each hash table entry on VAX is only 1 longword (4 C bytes), so not much more memory would be utilized by increasing the  size of the table.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 11:37:27 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error( Message-ID: <Zm1ECSxw1b5i@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, 3  chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes: L > Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific > error in DCL?  >  > --   > Chris Townley  > chris AT townleyc  > dot demon dot co uk    Any of this help?    $ CREATE T.COM
 $ set noon $ call error 'p1'  $ status = $status $ show symbol status$ $ write sys$output f$message(status) $ exit 'status'  $  $error: subroutine $ exit 'p1'  $ endsubroutine  ^Z $ SET VERIFY	 $ @T %X20 
 $ set noon $ call error %X20  $error: subroutine $ exit %X20 G %SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation  $ status = $status $ show symbol status   STATUS = "%X00000020" $ $ write sys$output f$message(status)G %SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation  $ exit %X00000020 G %SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 13:10:42 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error3 Message-ID: <DEZUcnUsbBXk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:L > Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific > error in DCL?    $	spawn exit 20 + %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process KILGALLEN_1 spawned = %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process KILGALLEN_1 ' %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value 3 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _RTA3: ' %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value  $	show symbol $status    $STATUS == "%X00000014"  $    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:23:28 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCL Raise error0 Message-ID: <00A24C41.748E0043@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <DEZUcnUsbBXk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: q >In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes: M >> Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific  >> error in DCL? >  >$	spawn exit 20, >%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process KILGALLEN_1 spawned> >%DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process KILGALLEN_1( >%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value4 >%DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _RTA3:( >%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value >$	show symbol $status >  $STATUS == "%X00000014" >$    F Assuming that you are not using GOSUB constructs, RETURN <error-code> E is simpler and doesn't consume process creation cycles and resources.    For example:  " $ ON SEVERE_ERROR THEN $ GOTO 100$ $ SHOW TIME 
 $ RETURN %x24  $ SHOW DEFAULT $ EXIT $100$: SHOW SYMBOL $STATUS. $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Oops!  An error occurred."
 $ SET NOON $ SHOW TIME 
 $ RETURN %x24  $ SHOW DEFAULT $ EXIT     --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 21:03:11 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error) Message-ID: <MQHd8d6xeBkq@elias.decus.ch>   p In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:L > Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific > error in DCL?  >    Do vou mean something like:    $ error_status = %x20  $ exit 'error_status' G %SYSTEM-W-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violation  $    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 12:04:28 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error( Message-ID: <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>  0 In article <00A24C41.748E0043@SendSpamHere.ORG>,%    VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: e > In article <DEZUcnUsbBXk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: r >>In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:N >>> Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific >>> error in DCL?  >> >>$	spawn exit 20 - >>%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process KILGALLEN_1 spawned ? >>%DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process KILGALLEN_1 ) >>%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value 5 >>%DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _RTA3: ) >>%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value  >>$	show symbol $status  >>  $STATUS == "%X00000014"  >>$  > H > Assuming that you are not using GOSUB constructs, RETURN <error-code> G > is simpler and doesn't consume process creation cycles and resources.  >  > For example: > $ > $ ON SEVERE_ERROR THEN $ GOTO 100$
 > $ SHOW TIME  > $ RETURN %x24  > $ SHOW DEFAULT > $ EXIT > $100$: SHOW SYMBOL $STATUS0 > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Oops!  An error occurred." > $ SET NOON
 > $ SHOW TIME  > $ RETURN %x24  > $ SHOW DEFAULT > $ EXIT >  >  > --P > VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 7 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"      B Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched
 with a GOSUB.    - Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 13:35:58 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error3 Message-ID: <JqmGRz2QWiyi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A24C41.748E0043@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: e > In article <DEZUcnUsbBXk@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: r >>In article <93b50805.0308220958.1536c12c@posting.google.com>, chris@townleyc.demon.co.uk (Chris Townley) writes:N >>> Might seems a silly question, but is there an easy way to raise a specific >>> error in DCL?  >> >>$	spawn exit 20 - >>%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process KILGALLEN_1 spawned ? >>%DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process KILGALLEN_1 ) >>%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value 5 >>%DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _RTA3: ) >>%SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value  >>$	show symbol $status  >>  $STATUS == "%X00000014"  >>$  > H > Assuming that you are not using GOSUB constructs, RETURN <error-code> G > is simpler and doesn't consume process creation cycles and resources.   E When someone says "raise a specific error in DCL" I presume they mean F in such a fashion that it will be handled by the normal error handlingG code in that command procedure.  The RETURN statement will not do that. F The following elaboration of my sample shows how my SPAWN method does:   $ type tie.tmp$ $       on warning then goto problem $       spawn exit 20  $       show symbol $status 
 $ problem: $       show system/noprocess 
 $ @tie.tmp+ %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process KILGALLEN_1 spawned = %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process KILGALLEN_1 ' %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value 3 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _RTA3: ' %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value G OpenVMS V6.2  on node NODE  22-AUG-2003 14:33:38.53  Uptime  2 21:59:08  $    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:49:05 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error3 Message-ID: <DKUfEH1F177q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:  D > Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched > with a GOSUB.   C Is that behavior documented and committed to be maintained in DCL ?   D Formerly one could skip the leading dollar signs on a line, but that was tightened.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 12:52:35 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error( Message-ID: <NCyut4ZK2bdL@cpva.saic.com>  3 In article <DKUfEH1F177q@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:J > In article <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes: > E >> Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched  >> with a GOSUB. > E > Is that behavior documented and committed to be maintained in DCL ?  > F > Formerly one could skip the leading dollar signs on a line, but that > was tightened.  6 Point taken... it's not documented (at least in HELP).   --   - Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:41:01 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCL Raise error0 Message-ID: <00A24C54.A9F89701@SendSpamHere.ORG>  H In article <NCyut4ZK2bdL@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:4 >In article <DKUfEH1F177q@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: K >> In article <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:  >>  F >>> Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched >>> with a GOSUB.  >>  F >> Is that behavior documented and committed to be maintained in DCL ? >>  G >> Formerly one could skip the leading dollar signs on a line, but that  >> was tightened.  > 7 >Point taken... it's not documented (at least in HELP).  >  >--  >- Jim  G Having been in the bowels of DCL, I doubt that it's behaviour will soon  change.    --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:03:37 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCL Raise error0 Message-ID: <00A24C60.3565772D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <F2uaZQfE7dvh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: V >In article <00A24C54.A9F89701@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:K >> In article <NCyut4ZK2bdL@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes: 6 >>>In article <DKUfEH1F177q@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3 >>> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: M >>>> In article <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:  >>>>  H >>>>> Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched >>>>> with a GOSUB.  >>>>  H >>>> Is that behavior documented and committed to be maintained in DCL ? >>>>  I >>>> Formerly one could skip the leading dollar signs on a line, but that  >>>> was tightened.  >>> 9 >>>Point taken... it's not documented (at least in HELP).  >>>  >>>--  >>>- Jim >>  J >> Having been in the bowels of DCL, I doubt that it's behaviour will soon
 >> change. > G >Changing soon is less of a problem than changing a long time from now.  > F >If the DCL source indicates this is a deliberate decision, that wouldF >be one thing, but if it is accidental, or if someone should decide itB >should be equivalent to EXIT, that would be hazardous to old code# >based on undocumented assumptions.   E True.  However, *documented* interfaces have changed *without notice* E that have had far more impact than an undocumented *feature* that DCL  seems to possess.   E Gee Brian could you be referring to the loss of the SCSI and terminal E class drivers support in the device support manuals?  Publish the doc E and then change the interfaces only to cover thy arse by removing the D former documentation.  AFAIAC, if it is in the source listings these days, it is documented.      --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:35:26 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: DCL Raise error3 Message-ID: <F2uaZQfE7dvh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <00A24C54.A9F89701@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: J > In article <NCyut4ZK2bdL@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:5 >>In article <DKUfEH1F177q@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:L >>> In article <mSo6wco$D1KN@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes: >>> G >>>> Very clever... I never considered/tried using a RETURN not matched  >>>> with a GOSUB. >>> G >>> Is that behavior documented and committed to be maintained in DCL ?  >>> H >>> Formerly one could skip the leading dollar signs on a line, but that >>> was tightened. >>8 >>Point taken... it's not documented (at least in HELP). >> >>--   >>- Jim  > I > Having been in the bowels of DCL, I doubt that it's behaviour will soon 	 > change.   F Changing soon is less of a problem than changing a long time from now.  E If the DCL source indicates this is a deliberate decision, that would E be one thing, but if it is accidental, or if someone should decide it A should be equivalent to EXIT, that would be hazardous to old code " based on undocumented assumptions.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:04:02 -0700 From: ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) G Subject: Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components... = Message-ID: <9d337b47.0308221304.53cfcd15@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEALHNAA.tom@kednos.com>...L > Just went throught this.  Turn the first three switches on the personalityK > module on, to set the upper range, it is most likely interfering with the I > internal drives.  BTW, if you pop open those cannisters, you can put in  > larger drives, e.g. 72GB    , Thank you Tom!  I'll try this out tonight...  F It didn't occur to me the external disks could interfere with internalD ones, as they are chained to two different adaptors.  I thought thisE would result in two independant busses, likely seen by OpenVMS as PKA ; and PKB, and logical unit numbers on each of them could not E conflict...  Is there something special about the built-in QLA1040 on D that box, or is it my understanding of SCSI that is at fault ;-) ?  0 Oh well, in any event, that is well worth a try!  F Thanks also for the suggestion about the SBB upgrade... I have a spare2 IBM ultra wide 36Gb drive I'll experiment with :-)  
   -- Olivier.    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:38:50 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: Difficulties with DPW 500au and StorageWorks components... 3 Message-ID: <2L1F0RyxeI5l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <9d337b47.0308221304.53cfcd15@posting.google.com>, ohm62@hotmail.com (OHM) writes:   H > It didn't occur to me the external disks could interfere with internalF > ones, as they are chained to two different adaptors.  I thought thisG > would result in two independant busses, likely seen by OpenVMS as PKA = > and PKB, and logical unit numbers on each of them could not G > conflict...  Is there something special about the built-in QLA1040 on F > that box, or is it my understanding of SCSI that is at fault ;-) ?    B It is not a SCSI issue, it is a VMS software decision to name both sets DKA in this configuration.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:12:10 GMT 1 From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.donotspamme.com>  Subject: Re: DSSI problem 1 Message-ID: <erx1b.3165$Oo7.731@news.cpqcorp.net>    Thierry Dussuet wrote: > Hello!L > I have a VAX 4000/300 here with 3 RF72 disks in it, as well as a TK70 tapeP > drive.  Everything went well until someday I realised it was quite dusty, so IQ > took one drive out to see if it was really that dusty - but it wasn't, so I put O > it back in.  And now it doesn't see the disks anymore! All vanished, although L > the disks themselves have the green light on, and I hear them from time toN > time.  The startup tests show no errors, either, and trying to boot from the > system disk does not work. >  > 
 >>>>sh dev >  > DSSI Bus 0 Node 6 (*)  >  > DSSI Bus 1 Node 7 (*)S > " > UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) > -MUA0 (TK70) >  > Ethernet Adapter > -EZA0 (08-00-2B-16-E7-33)i >  > M > They were on Bus 0.  Does anybody have a hint?  Something that I could have , > done wrong while putting the disk back in? > 	 > Thierry   G Thierry, the fuse for the one of the DSSI busses is on the back of the aI system console panel.  IIRC, it was a fairly large and obvious item that  E was soldered onto the circuit board, visible without taking it apart.   E  From your last response, I gather that you have other drives in the sG drive bays, so I doubt that this unit got in upside down (Again, IIRC,  @ you have both DSSI AND SCSI connectors on the backplane but the D alignment of the edge connector on the back of the drive determines H which slot gets used; if by chance it got worked into the SCSI slot and H you have no SCSI adapter, it definitely would NOT be seen on the DSSI). D   I presume that you've reseated the drive.  Does it spin up and go E through it's calibration passes when power is applied to the system? e Any fault lights?V  A If you pull the drive out, also check the appearance of the edge -G connector.  Make sure that it isn't binding or sitting at an angle and mE that it looks basically "square" back there.  There is some room for dH movement of that connector, but not a whole lot.  I can't recall if the H "slop" at that connector to align with the backplane slot is single- or G double-axis.  Also make sure that the ribbon cable and power feed from o: that connector are both seated onto the ISE for the drive.  F Stupid time to ask this question, but you "cleaned" this disk...  Did E you mechanically disassemble it in any way to do so, or did you just n brush or vacuum it off?    Let us know, please...   bobe   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:27:47 -0400e, From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: HP's site for patches -- down?., Message-ID: <3f466ebb$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K I updated the link on the serv_support page and it will update overnight. Il7 need to get the rest of the links updated also. I guessf" I have something to do next week..    A "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote in messagef: news:e0522dee622a8bfd8fbce03fa4fa0866@news.teranews.com...0 > In article <bi5gnp$fr8$1@newslocal.mitre.org>,0 >  lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) wrote: > K > > I'm getting to http://h71000.www7.hp.com/serv_support.html OK, but if Ii6 > > click on http://www.support.compaq.com/patches/ orL > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/.new/openvms.shtml I get timeouts. > >dK > > The DEC C compiler "Compaq C V6.4-008" is giving me a failed assertion,- and E > > I want to see if there are any patches for it before I submit it.( >tH > I get the timeouts as well.  Those pages should still work but the new > page is atK > <http://www1.itrc.hp.com/service/patch/search.do?pageContextName=openvms:o > :>.e   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:11:05 -0700# From: jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason)gO Subject: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!h; Message-ID: <e1746a1.0308221511.584cf12@posting.google.com>u  F Currently interviewing and looking to fill ASAP.  If you fit the skillE set listed above or know of someone that does please send your resumen to jcarl@paradigm-wa.com ASAP.   thanks,l  
 Jason Carl Paradigm 253 887 8353   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 03 01:43:58 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) S Subject: Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!l) Message-ID: <eQW47BPcWSZ3@elias.decus.ch>s  a In article <e1746a1.0308221511.584cf12@posting.google.com>, jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) writes: H > Currently interviewing and looking to fill ASAP.  If you fit the skillG > set listed above or know of someone that does please send your resumeO  > to jcarl@paradigm-wa.com ASAP. > 	 > thanks,l >  > Jason Carl
 > Paradigm > 253 887 8353  9 When posting requests like this, please mention the area.g  E Who knows? I (or more likely others here) may be able to forward youri( interested parties if the area is known.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:43:02 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)oS Subject: Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!a3 Message-ID: <jGJBihjQdKir@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  a In article <e1746a1.0308221511.584cf12@posting.google.com>, jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) writes:aH > Currently interviewing and looking to fill ASAP.  If you fit the skillG > set listed above or know of someone that does please send your resumei  > to jcarl@paradigm-wa.com ASAP. > 	 > thanks,e >  > Jason Carl
 > Paradigm > 253 887 8353  ? You should probably indicate where those positions are located.w  C Your area code is not necessarily a clue, since agencies often work ( across the country or between countries.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 20:39:13 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eS Subject: Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately!a3 Message-ID: <EZgCkVjaMfq1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <qsgdkvsattpknbdfpbmvqsldp4muuo7uph@4ax.com>, Jay Newman <fredthecat@i-love-cats.com> writes:I > On 23 Aug 03 01:43:58 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:  > c >>In article <e1746a1.0308221511.584cf12@posting.google.com>, jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) writes:aJ >>> Currently interviewing and looking to fill ASAP.  If you fit the skillI >>> set listed above or know of someone that does please send your resume " >>> to jcarl@paradigm-wa.com ASAP. >>>  >>> thanks,  >>>  >>> Jason Carl >>> Paradigm >>> 253 887 8353 >>; >>When posting requests like this, please mention the area.u >>G >>Who knows? I (or more likely others here) may be able to forward yourn* >>interested parties if the area is known.? > _____________________________________________________________pP > That area code & exchange are for Auburn, Washington... which also makes sense1 > given the "-wa" at the end of paradigm-wa.com .eM > Maybe this was a skill test for candidates, to see if they could figure outn > where the job was?   (G)  J Yes, it would be good to avoid hiring programmers who jump to conclusions,I such as assuming the recruiter is in the same geographic area as the job.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:36:21 -0400p- From: Jay Newman <fredthecat@i-love-cats.com>mS Subject: Re: I need 4 DEC/BASIC OpenVMS programmers for perm positions immediately! 8 Message-ID: <qsgdkvsattpknbdfpbmvqsldp4muuo7uph@4ax.com>  G On 23 Aug 03 01:43:58 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:h  b >In article <e1746a1.0308221511.584cf12@posting.google.com>, jcarl@paradigm-wa.com (Jason) writes:I >> Currently interviewing and looking to fill ASAP.  If you fit the skill H >> set listed above or know of someone that does please send your resume! >> to jcarl@paradigm-wa.com ASAP.  >> c
 >> thanks, >> d
 >> Jason Carln >> Paradigm. >> 253 887 8353n >t: >When posting requests like this, please mention the area. >pF >Who knows? I (or more likely others here) may be able to forward your) >interested parties if the area is known.0= _____________________________________________________________dN That area code & exchange are for Auburn, Washington... which also makes sense/ given the "-wa" at the end of paradigm-wa.com .yK Maybe this was a skill test for candidates, to see if they could figure outt where the job was?   (G)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:42:51 GMTv< From: "John E. Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>C Subject: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com-2 Message-ID: <vCs1b.3136$1X6.2137@news.cpqcorp.net>   Craig A. Berry wrote:c  I > As far as not being able to send mail from digital.com from within hp, 1H > that would be true if port 25 is blocked at your firewall, but if the H > filtering is done by your smtp servers that wouldn't help because the J > virus includes its own smtp service.  Most likely, though, it's someone F > outside hp who has the infected machine that is generating the mail.  > Warren was refering to specific e-mail address "openvms-info".  B It is very unlikely that you would get a message from an infected A machine in HP.  All outgoing SMTP e-mail must be relayed through n< specific e-mail gateways, and the virus would not know that.  J > I've been getting somewhere between a dozen and a hundred SOBIG-related C > messages per hour for the last few days simply because my e-mail a, > address appears in the Perl documentation.  I It the ones that have been directed at my qsl.net address, they were all uH coming from two DSL I.P. addresses.  All has been quiet for a few hours.  F The samba-vms mailing list was being spammed by 3 misconfigured virus G scanners yesterday.  I think the list manager finally blocked them.  I wF did get a confirmation from one of the virus scanner owners that they  have fixed their configuration.-  D As most of the time any e-mail address found in a message sent by a H virus is forged, no virus scanner should be sending them a notification.  I If the owner of a virus scanner wants to notify the infected party, they .G must look up the POSTMASTER or ABUSE address for the I.P. address that hI they accepted the e-mail from.  That is the fastest way to reach someone uI that can fix the problem.  And they should send only 1 notifications per cF infected I.P. address for every 8? hours they are still receiving the E virus, after all, the abuse desks probably are dealing with a lot of n reports.   -John  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 20:51:11 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)eC Subject: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com ) Message-ID: <rNxCcrMtEcNO@elias.decus.ch>l  [ In article <3f462221$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:GI > folks, if you get any email from openvms-info using a domain other thanh > hp.com delete it.. > J > this new virus spreads by spoofing the sender email address and using an$ > address out of their address book. > H > It is not possible to send email from @compaq.com or @digital.com fromG > inside HP. I've gotten about 50 'you sent me a virus' replies (mostlyfJ > automated) to the openvms-info mail account. I haven't sent more than 10% > messages on that account this week.r > 3 > just a word to those that don't want infections..i  E And the same appears to be true for anyone posting via the newsgroupsm to this newsgroup.  J I first started receiving the Sobig emails at this address within a coupleE of minutes of posting a message here. My guess is that someone who is H signed up to receive individual emails via INFO-VAX was already infected? and the virus picked my address somehow from the incoming mail.t  H Thereafter they continued to arrive at quite a rate - something like 200D in 24 hours. Interestingly in the first 100 or so approximately 1 inF 5 was a rejection message to *me* from various mail servers which wereF already recognizing the virus. The last 100 had very few rejections in there.  @ Effective spam filters now in place - dead easy when you have so many examples to work from.   B A colleague suddenly received a rash of these rejections yesterday@ and was most upset because he has kept his address as private asB possible. My conclusion was that one of his regular correspondents had become infected.   > N > but if you get the mail on your OpenVMS sytems, please open, read, dump, etc$ > cause it ain't going to hurt you.. >    Absolutely correct.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:33:08 -0400 , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>C Subject: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com , Message-ID: <3f466ffc$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  L What I was really trying to say (badly) was that I could not send email from( inside hp with compaq.com or digital.comE domains currently (there is a whole for digital india but I would getrA screened out of the smtp servers there before the mail went out).-  J Also since May 2002 the @compaq.com version of openvms-info hasn't been on2 any web pages etc so whoever got infected had someH old crufty stuff.. the old domain names are in some documents on the docD site that are themselves old and crufty but shouldn't be on anything- that anyone has seen in the past 12-14 monthss  K Just letting you know that you can safely delete them cause we didn't/can'tl send them from hp land.m   -warrenK   --  K --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7 Warren Sander                   WW E-Marketing (HP.COM) B Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comK 200 Forest Street MR01-3/K8     Personal: sander.ma.ultranet@remove.rcn.comy. Marlboro, MA 01752              (508) 467-48755    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself.*          Read http://www.hp.com/go/openvmsK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:52:14 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) C Subject: Re: mail from openvms-info using compaq.com or digital.com 3 Message-ID: <Ac22iMIXfb3c@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <3f466ffc$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com> writes:   L > Also since May 2002 the @compaq.com version of openvms-info hasn't been onF > any web pages etc so whoever got infected had some old crufty stuff.  C Certainly some spammers have gotten infected.  I receive this virusfB stuff at an address that was published in one place from 1994-1996A and later on was inactive (as in, no email server) for 18 months.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:03:25 -0500c1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>U Subject: Re: MOP servert' Message-ID: <3F46932D.BD7C1763@fsi.net>    Pawel Jaskorzynski wrote:e >  > Hi there, C > does anybody know about a MOP server running on a w2k/XP machine?   H Well, there once was a way to do that with Pathworks V4.1. Dunno if it'd run on W/NT or later.o   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:43:48 -0500.( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) Subject: Re:  MOP server1 Message-ID: <03082217434854@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>-   > Pawel Jaskorzynski wrote:  > > 
 > > Hi there,2E > > does anybody know about a MOP server running on a w2k/XP machine?:   For what, DECservers?BM If your servers are IP or IP compatible (700+), then use BOOTP or equivalent.0    A Any BOOTP server can download files reqardless of OS or whatever.5     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*no VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:14:13 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re:  MOP server/ Message-ID: <3F4687A5.20005.1437BB89@localhost>    > > Pawel Jaskorzynski wrote:aG > > > does anybody know about a MOP server running on a w2k/XP machine?h  E There's a full implementation of MOP available on Linux.  DECnet and e LAT, too...   
 --Stan Quayler Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671r1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147e= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:49:11 GMTa% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>a Subject: Re: MOP server 8 Message-ID: <HCA1b.7873$re.171339@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  K There was one that came with the software on our GS160/320 console PC's fora2 loading the 8 port DecServer 90's in the GS boxes.  H We have since replaced that functionality with a DS10L that does the MOP load.h  D Pawel Jaskorzynski <pawelRE-MO-VE@jaskorzynski.net> wrote in message) news:bi4vm8$g2l$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...m > Hi there,oC > does anybody know about a MOP server running on a w2k/XP machine?t >o	 > Thanks,u > PJ >t >c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:02:14 -0500a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 7 Subject: Re: Mount DQB0 gets 'allready allocated' error ' Message-ID: <3F4692E6.BDA7C2BC@fsi.net>    Karl Rohwedder wrote:b > i > I try to mount a CDROM (DQB0) on a DS10 and get the 'device already allocated to another user' - error,i/ > though SHOW DEV /FULL display an empty owner:- > 
 > $ allo dqb0 > > %SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user > " > $  moun/over=id/media=cdrom dqb0; > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device already allocated to another useriJ > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, device _$1$DQB0: (QAK01) is not available for mounting. >  > $ sh dev dqb0/fu > . > Locks queued to device lock "SYS$_$1$DQB0:": > x >     - Lock 7A002A8A,  length of items 00180018,  $ENQ status 00000001, value block 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000c >     -   LOCKID     PID      SYSID   (node)     REMLKID  REMSYSID           RQMODE  GRMODE   STATEmz >     -  7A002A8A  000060B5  00000000 ()        7A002A8A  00000000 ()          00      00     01     [ NL / NL / GRANTED ] > P > Disk $1$DQB0: (QAK01), device type Compaq  CRD-8402B, is online, file-orientedI >      device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.w > R >      Error count                    0    Operations completed                907R >      Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]R >      Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WR >      Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 512R >      Total blocks             1290232    Sectors per track                     8R >      Total cylinders            40320    Tracks per cylinder                   4' >      Allocation class               1o >  > PID 60B5 is myself.m > . > Has somebody the same problem or a solution?  3 May depend on your VMS version and/or ECOs applied.L  D There is/was a known problem, especially with ISO-9660 CDs where theD volume label was longer than a number characters that I don't recall> just now. Maybe someone else will chime in with more info. ...   -- A David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:39:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)S7 Subject: Re: Mount DQB0 gets 'allready allocated' errorp3 Message-ID: <M5vdVidMj0EU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3F4692E6.BDA7C2BC@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > Karl Rohwedder wrote:s >> >j >> I try to mount a CDROM (DQB0) on a DS10 and get the 'device already allocated to another user' - error,  F > There is/was a known problem, especially with ISO-9660 CDs where theF > volume label was longer than a number characters that I don't recall@ > just now. Maybe someone else will chime in with more info. ...  C Without looking it up, I expect that error would be "Another volume E of this name is already mounted".  The volume label field for ISO9660 4 is longer than supported by the VMS uniqueness code.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:42:23 -0700 From: erik@rmwt.net (erik B)) Subject: mounting remote disks on VAX/VMSD= Message-ID: <5e3faf98.0308221442.2584a008@posting.google.com>"  @ Sorry if this is the wrong group, I am a total VAX/VMS newbie.    E We have a VAX/VMS system that we would like to mount a remote net appd= to so that we may backup the contents of the VAX drive to it.i  C One person at work indicates that this cannot be done, that you canaD only mount drives from another VAX box, not one from a Linux or Unix box.  C Being all TCP/IP devices it sounds odd to me, but as I said, I am a  newbie.c  F Can someone shed some light, can we mount another disk to this box and1 move data across the network to this other drive?l   Thanks,    Erik   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:28:39 GMT > From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>- Subject: Re: mounting remote disks on VAX/VMS @ Message-ID: <HGx1b.225$jh1.124136518@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>  
 erik B wrote:0  B > Sorry if this is the wrong group, I am a total VAX/VMS newbie.     Right group.   > G > We have a VAX/VMS system that we would like to mount a remote net appO? > to so that we may backup the contents of the VAX drive to it.n  @ VMS (VAX and Alpha) UCX/TCPIP/TCPWare/Multinet have all had NFS C server/clients for a very long time now..  To answer your question o> accurately, we need to know which TCPIP stack you are using...   > E > One person at work indicates that this cannot be done, that you can F > only mount drives from another VAX box, not one from a Linux or Unix > box.  F And it depends on what you want to back up and the method you want to E use...  You can always copy files from VMS file systems to unix file rG systems (in either direction).  There are some fundamental differences  A in the way each of these platforms views the "backup" data.  VMS  G savesets can be stored on unix boxes, it is restoring those files that  ! become somewhat more complicated.o  " google search  "openvms tcpip nfs"   > E > Being all TCP/IP devices it sounds odd to me, but as I said, I am a 	 > newbie.% > H > Can someone shed some light, can we mount another disk to this box and3 > move data across the network to this other drive?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Erik   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:18:21 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>- Subject: Re: mounting remote disks on VAX/VMSs/ Message-ID: <3F46889D.18586.143B8662@localhost>n  E All my VMS machines, both VAX and Alpha, back up to a NFS share on a - Red Hat Linux 7.3 machine.  C If you mount the share the right way, the VMS file characteristics K, are preserved, and restoring them is a snap.    A > To answer your question accurately, we need to know which TCPIP1 > stack you are using...  C If you're using the HP stack (also known as "UCX"), I can give you s the right magic incantations...@  
 --Stan Quayley Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671c1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147l= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comr   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:07:07 -0700 (PDT)e. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: OpenVMS Jobs, OpenVMS.org etc... > Message-ID: <20030823030707.638.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>   Well People>  ; I belive that the best way to survive in the OpenVMS World u9 is we stay united. I suggested to K.Farmer to OpenVMS.org 7 become the central repository of all OVMS professionals 9 worldwide. Would be an association ? Paying 25 dollars...d; I dont  know ! But would be the perfect place for us to putD9 our resumes and to be the central hub for the hiring guys 8 contact us ! As I said to him we would have our profiles2 like www.openvms.org/profile/fcardoso (etc...)  ! : May be installing a Instanting Message server software for2 our communty to have online contact worlwide  !!!!   just suggeestions    Regardsx   FC     =====h ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilG fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  " __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software3 http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:57:24 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>- Subject: OpenVMS Security:T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0CEF9D18@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C368DF.39685380  Content-Type: text/plain  K Where can I find information that describes why OpenVMS is more secure than L other operating systems?  I'm looking for something like a comparison on howG Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle common attacks like buffer overflows.5   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**D    ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C368DF.39685380< Content-Type: text/htmlp+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">a <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =s charset=3DUS-ASCII">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2653.12">t <TITLE>OpenVMS Security</TITLE>  </HEAD>r <BODY>  D <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Where can I find information that =; describes why OpenVMS is more secure than other operating = C systems?&nbsp; I'm looking for something like a comparison on how =0> Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle common attacks like buffer = overflows.</FONT></P>s  * <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ed</FONT>G <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">**Please apply a generous amount of =:( all the usual disclaimers here.**</FONT> </P>   </BODY>i </HTML>p) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C368DF.39685380--    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:35:05 GMT>4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Securitya0 Message-ID: <3F466E8C.359AF97C@blueyonder.co.uk>   > "Stuart, Ed" wrote:e > ] > Where can I find information that describes why OpenVMS is more secure than other operatingt` > systems?  I'm looking for something like a comparison on how Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle' > common attacks like buffer overflows.t >    Tryi  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11108e   for starters.    > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**b   -- k tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 17:51:41 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security6= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0308221651.1aa07e70@posting.google.com>.   "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0CEF9D18@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...eM > Where can I find information that describes why OpenVMS is more secure thanoN > other operating systems?  I'm looking for something like a comparison on howI > Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle common attacks like buffer overflows.a >  > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**c  A you might want to try this also ... defcon9 called it unhackable!>  * http://www.pointsecure.com/Defconwhite.pdf   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:42:53 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0308221842.2d8322f8@posting.google.com>    "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0CEF9D18@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>... M > Where can I find information that describes why OpenVMS is more secure thansN > other operating systems?  I'm looking for something like a comparison on howI > Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle common attacks like buffer overflows.l >  > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**   C one more great place to get a really good idea is the cert site ...a  > OpenVMS the last time I checked had 31 certs in 13 years whileA over 500 in 5 years for slowaris, more than double for linux, andI, windoze, I think they have lost count ... :)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:46:28 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security,= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0308221846.59b03134@posting.google.com>    "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0CEF9D18@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>..."M > Where can I find information that describes why OpenVMS is more secure than N > other operating systems?  I'm looking for something like a comparison on howI > Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS handle common attacks like buffer overflows.0 >  > EdG > **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**b  ? want a good example of how OpenVMS handles buffer overflows ...K; remember this cert advisory?  VMS stopped it cold like manyn; other buffer overflows with an "access violation" error ...v  = http://www.process.com/techsupport/tcpware/faqs/snmpcert.htmlv   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:55:45 -0700( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: SFTP < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0308221855.fa5e913@posting.google.com>  s Mike Freeman <k7uij@nospam.panix.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.NEB.4.56.0308201205050.28178@panix3.panix.com>...  > Greetings. > J > The electric utility for which I work obtains a fair amount of data fromJ > the Internet via ftp using command procedures.  We have UCX installed soG > are using its ftp client.  One of the sites from which we get data isaI > shifting to use of SFTP (as in the UNIX SFTP).  Is there a client whicho9 > will run under VAX/VMS which can handle SFTP transfers?u >  > Thanks much in advance.a >  > Mike Freeman < K 7 U I J >  < it comes with TCPware, the best IP stack for VMS ... it runs9 crisper than multinet or ucx in a head to head comparisont< between the 3, plus it is still based on the VMS kernel well% the others are unix (yuck!) based ....   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:51:56 GMTL% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>.A Subject: Shadow or Raid.  - Don't do both!  WAS Re: 306GB drives!e8 Message-ID: <0Nz1b.7630$re.167999@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  < Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0308210643.56f91f8f@posting.google.com...i2 > "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> wrote in message7 news:<%lj%a.93485$o27.2125405@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...c= > > when you have a system crash.  No 6+ hour performance hitdJ > > from all the shadow copy merges.  One of the BIG complaints heard from some1 > > of our remote customers with LARGE databases.  >bG > It is possible to minimize the pain of full-merge operations.  HavingbH > done some research in this area recently, I thought it might be useful > to post some of my findings:
 > --------F > How to mitigate the pain of full merges (until host-based mini-merge > feature is available): >aD > If possible, use MSCP controllers (HSJxx, HSD30/40/50), which haveE > Volume Shadowing Assists, including the Write History Logging which0D > allows mini-merges.  But if you had those, you wouldn't be reading
 > this, so...5  # Too small, and Too slow!  Get real.e  F I had my first drive failure in our old CI cluster that uses HSJ's and
 shadowing.; It froze the whole cluster instead of autosparing the disk!   3 On the HSG's a drive failure is a non-event for me.tD I had a drive fail out thursday night.  With ConsoleWorks, I got the
 following:% 1.) page/email that the drive failed.e? 2.) Page/Email that the Drive was removed from the storage set.c1 3.) Page/Email that the spareset drive was added.iK I do not bother with notification for when the drives have normalized.  The  first threee are enough for me.   . I have not had a drive failure in the EVA yet.   >i > Avoid system crashes:   # ROTFLMAO!  That an easy one to say.aK Why can't you just as easily "Avoid destroying your data center", or "AvoidM multiple Controller crashes"?nJ Short and simple hardware fails at some time or another that you cannot doE anything about.  I'm all for using the latest technology to reduce mye workload. and system downtime.  9 > 1) Take crash dumps, find root causes, install patches.n  I We do, we did!, and we do when possible.  Installing the "Latest" patchest8 can sometimes cause crashes!  (RMS V300 ring any bells?)  F A DS10 system that is used for a standby ORACLE database was trying toG shadow a 350GB disk.  After we turned on shadowing, the system crashed.tJ Upon analysisi of the crash dump, it was determined that Shadowing was the cause of the system crash!I Perhapse you can tell Michael and I what he did wrong in trying to shadow  the 350GB disk?dJ It worked on the ES45 that we tossed in to get it done.  But the DS10 died on every attempt!A We did not try a DS20.  G > 2) Minimize the number of nodes in a cluster if possible, using fewercA > of more-powerful nodes instead of a lot of less-powerful nodes.e  J You need the more powerful nodes to handle the shadowing load!  Not to run the Application on it.  H > Minimize the effect of crashes.  Don't mount shadowsets on nodes whichG > don't need to access them -- then if the node crashes, it won't startp > a merge on those shadowsets. >dC > Avoid disk I/Os.  Use caching in the host as much as possible, tooD > avoid having to do disk I/Os during a merge.  Enable XFC.  For RMS2 > files, use Global Buffers.  Use database caches. >b  H XFC causes/caused Oracle corruption in 7.3.  Have they fixed that yet in
 7.3/7.3-1?F I can't get a strait answer on that question from either Oracle or HP.  H > Get merges over and done with as fast as possible.  (Don't prolong the > pain.)  ' Why have the pain in the first place!!!r Trust the technology!e   <Snow plow slice...>  B > i) Don't combine large disks into controller-based stripesets orB > RAID-5 arrays and then shadow those huge units.  Instead, shadowG > individual disks (or even smaller partitions of a disk).  If you havefF > to re-combine these into larger volumes for use up at the VMS level,? > do so with host-based RAID software, forming RAID 0+1 arrays.   % Even more IO for the OS to handle!!!!u  H Basically you are stating here that shadowing and RAID technology DO NOT MIX!!!!h, Either SHADOW, or RAID.  but DO NOT DO BOTH!C Why buy the raid array controller if I cannot use the technology???sA Oh, I forgot...   You need tons of spindles now to make all those  shadowsets.e  F > ii) Interestingly, empirical tests suggest that dividing up a singleB > large disk into 4 partitions and shadowing those 4 partitions inE > parallel should allow merges of all 4 units in only 40% of the time4F > (i.e. about 2.5 times as fast) as merging the disk as a single wholeH > unit.  Although the single disk head experiences seek contention amongH > the 4 partitions, it's still much faster to complete the merge because" > of the 4 parallel merge threads.  K I do not want to partitions drives.  If it was the EVA I would make smaller E drives where necessary, but this takes up to much management time pero5 cluster.  Especially when multiplied by 50+ clusters!:  E That is the miniscule amount of data compared to the Oracle Database./  D > b) Don't use an entire disk if you don't need the space.  Yes, theE > smallest disk you can buy new is 18 GB today, but you don't have to"C > use the entire space.  If you're using only 4 GB on a 36 GB disk,tG > you'll suffer while the other 32 GB gets merged.  Instead, create a 4 F > GB partition and present that 4 GB volume to VMS.  (Note that if youD > shadow multiple partitions on a Fibre Channel disk, you need to be > running 7.3-1 or better.)-  I I do not want to partition!  If I suddenly needed 5 gig tomorrow...   youaI would need to present another partition.  Transfer the data.  Shadow that   again! :-)  Too much management.   >DG > The Shadowing full-merge thread does 127-block I/Os from start to endiC > of the disk, so read-ahead cache in controllers helps a lot, witho# > close to 100% hit rates possible.n >oH > Biggest adverse performance impact today seems to be on reads directedD > to areas of the disk not yet passed over by the merge fence, sinceC > those areas get re-merged for each and every I/O.  (Impact of the:E > merge thread itself seems to be lower, in my tests, perhaps becauseeH > disks and controllers are so much faster now than when Shadowing firstF > came out, and the 127-block I/Os which seemed huge in the early daysE > get handled in a flash with today's fast Fibre Channel interconectseA > and 15K RPM disks, especially with caching in the controllers.)  >r  J Funny, the client that was complaining about the LONG time (4-6 hours) forL shadow merges was running 9 or 18GB JBOD drives in 3 HSG80 cabinets on FibreJ channel interconnects that where presented to clustered GS160's  You wouldJ think that it would not be a problem since they seemed to be following all) of the criteria that you presented above.0  3 Maybe this just does not scale to a larger setup!!!c  E > Try to place performance-critical files at the beginning of the LBNeE > space on the disk, so they are first to be passed over by the mergeeH > fence.  Consider creating smaller partitions at the beginning of disksF > for your performance-critical files.  On today's Zoned-bit RecordingA > disks, the first LBNs on the disk are the best-performing areaslG > anyway, with the highest areal bit density (putting a given amount of E > data onto the fewest tracks to minimize seeks) and with the highesti+ > data transfer rates off the disk surface.o >a0 > More details are available in the presentation8 > http://www2.openvms.org/kparris/s2003_volshad_perf.ppt >-D > > The EVA really is making it potentially possible to do away with
 shadowing.L > > You do your backups and redundancy at the disk controller level.  Not at theo
 > > OS level.s >mD > This strategy works fine until the controller [pair] fails, or theD > datacenter in which the EVA is located is destroyed by a disaster.  K Lets be fair.  This is true of your HBVS solution if you only have one datadH center as well.  And, if your data center is where your business is run,K Like in most  companies. Your data center may be the least of your worries!n  J Example.  Auto Assembly line:   If the assembly line is trashed/destroyed.K Replacing the computers that run the line is miniscule compared to the costg of the assembly line itself.  H 2 data centers connected by dark fibre.  I will take EVA's over HBVS any/ day!  and do it on a smaller VMS box to boot!!!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:05:44 GMTu3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)_< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)2 Message-ID: <YXs1b.3140$_W6.2122@news.cpqcorp.net>  ( In article <3F4641CF.5020806@MMaz.com>, - "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:s  F >If I had a choice of running VMS on a Dell or a HP, I wouldn't think 
 >twice, Dell!   C Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your statement containsoD the implicit assumption that the total cost of ownership for runningE OpenVMS I64 on Dell hardware would be less than for running it on HP.    That may or may not be true.  F The cost of Dell harwware qualified to run OpenVMS may be more or lessI than the cost of similar HP hardware.  Similarly, the cost of maintainingn7 the system (hardware and software) may be more or less.0  J My personal guess -- NOT necessarily reflecting HP or OpenVMS engineering H thinking -- is that Dell hardware *MAY* at some future time be a viable K alternative for *SOME* systems running OpenVMS, while others may be better >
 run on HP.  . It will be interestiong to see what developes.   -- eJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 13:10:36 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)_< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)3 Message-ID: <2J9Yee12TpNB@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <GZ3sVm7j6VtA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r > In article <bi5ieu$6ni$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: >> Rob Young wrote:e > G >>> 	Dell is quite unique.  Imagine if a car manufacturer kept lowering.E >>> 	prices as they wrenched effiecncies out of their suppliers?  BadrH >>> 	analogy?  Alright.  But Dell gets sweetheart Intel prices, dictatesH >>> 	to their suppliers, etc.  Itanium?  Deltel will make it fly, right? >>>  >> h< >> Dell isn't unique,  many retailers operate on the sort of >> margins that Dell does. >> i > 	nE > 	Implied:   "within the computer industry."  To suggest that no ones@ > 	else anywhere in the world runs their business similar to the' > 	way Dell does, wouldn't be accurate.m >     = 	You know what... I've been at this long enough.  I know somefE 	nitpicker is going to point out another within the computer industryh> 	that has a business model similar to Dell.  To further refine@ 	and take the wind out of the nitpickers that would love to hang? 	out at a nitpicking festival - here is a qualifier that shouldc 	have been in the original:p  A 	"Among the top 5 in computer sales [here - nitpick that] Dell ise( 	rather unique in their business model."   	Random enough - pick on that.   				Robb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:16:51 -0400b& From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)/ Message-ID: <vkcnoa6lb2ih2b@news.supernews.com>r  G My bet is that you will have to either give the System Serial# to buy a @ license, or there will be a specific firmware-checksum required.  / Running OpenVMS on Dell.... Carly would croak !tJ But you are right about DELL... sold a few used ones a couple of years ago and never gone down.  E Of course, Compaq Alpha s are even more reliable - in fact, our  DS10 A web/mail server (running Tru64) has been nicknamed the "Blue Nun"c   Figure it out ;0)A     DT    @ "Charlie Hammond" <hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com> wrote in message, news:YXs1b.3140$_W6.2122@news.cpqcorp.net...) > In article <3F4641CF.5020806@MMaz.com>,d/ > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:n >OG > >If I had a choice of running VMS on a Dell or a HP, I wouldn't think1 > >twice, Dell!t >@E > Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your statement contains F > the implicit assumption that the total cost of ownership for runningG > OpenVMS I64 on Dell hardware would be less than for running it on HP.n >@ > That may or may not be true. >eH > The cost of Dell harwware qualified to run OpenVMS may be more or lessK > than the cost of similar HP hardware.  Similarly, the cost of maintainings9 > the system (hardware and software) may be more or less.o >oK > My personal guess -- NOT necessarily reflecting HP or OpenVMS engineering I > thinking -- is that Dell hardware *MAY* at some future time be a viable L > alternative for *SOME* systems running OpenVMS, while others may be better > run on HP. > 0 > It will be interestiong to see what developes. >. > -- nL >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAH >           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's. >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:01:32 -0700t+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>r< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)' Message-ID: <3F46688C.5080607@MMaz.com>2   Charlie Hammond wrote:  ) >In article <3F4641CF.5020806@MMaz.com>,  . >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: >r >  c >eG >>If I had a choice of running VMS on a Dell or a HP, I wouldn't think n >>twice, Dell! >>     >> >eD >Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your statement containsE >the implicit assumption that the total cost of ownership for runningdF >OpenVMS I64 on Dell hardware would be less than for running it on HP. >b >That may or may not be true.o >i >  u > I Agreed.  But, presuming that HP wants to continue to try and make itself uI the PC monarch, and Itanium systems are nothing more than PC's  (granted uD with varying levels of robustness, features, quality, and hopefully C performance), then they (HP) will be competing in the same Itanium rG market as IBM, Dell, and dozens of other PC manufacturers/distributors oG striving to do the same thing, but perhaps more focused on Windows and s Linux as the OS.  G >The cost of Dell harwware qualified to run OpenVMS may be more or less J >than the cost of similar HP hardware.  Similarly, the cost of maintaining8 >the system (hardware and software) may be more or less. >  a >wF Maybe, but how many PC manufacturers/distributors do this for non VMS D OS's?  I suspect few since much of the product if off-the-shelf and C Windoze has standard enough drivers to at least allow for mediocre d* performance...  I didn't say stability :-)  K >My personal guess -- NOT necessarily reflecting HP or OpenVMS engineering  I >thinking -- is that Dell hardware *MAY* at some future time be a viable lL >alternative for *SOME* systems running OpenVMS, while others may be better  >run on HP.- >-/ >It will be interestiong to see what developes.  >  >    >WF As for our company, we gave up on Compaq systems over size years ago, H when we had an affiliate that used to be a VAR and we could get them at I disty pricing.  Since that time, we've not purchased or used a HP/Compaq MG system and have no plans in the foreseeable future, so if VMS will run wD on a Dell Itanium, that will work for us simply because long ago we G standardized on Dell for Windoze because price and support does matter 2I (something Compaq knew nothing about).  As for reconsidering HP, frankly uF they make great test equipment (Agilent) and printers, but I've never 4 had a motivation to consider their Wintel systems...   Regards,   Barryu   -- .  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        t   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:54:34 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)3 Message-ID: <R7ASWojwA$Cl@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  U In article <3F46688C.5080607@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:n > Charlie Hammond wrote:  H >>The cost of Dell harwware qualified to run OpenVMS may be more or lessK >>than the cost of similar HP hardware.  Similarly, the cost of maintainingP9 >>the system (hardware and software) may be more or less.t >>   >>H > Maybe, but how many PC manufacturers/distributors do this for non VMS F > OS's?  I suspect few since much of the product if off-the-shelf and E > Windoze has standard enough drivers to at least allow for mediocre -, > performance...  I didn't say stability :-)  F Qualification for Windows <cough> clusters takes an order of magnitude fewer systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:30:12 -0700i+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)' Message-ID: <3F468B64.1010101@MMaz.com>7  ' Jim Agnew - VCU/MCV Neurosurgery wrote:n  G > forget everything else a minute, please, what car manufacturer???????*  F I believe the article was in either Fortune or maybe Baseline, but it F was a brand new startup located in San Bernardina, California, and it F was basically modeling after the Dell-Style, off-the-shelf custom car  manufacturing...   BarryD   -- 8  > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com> Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320> Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028                        t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:26:13 GMT.L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)6 Message-ID: <00A24C41.CD849D91@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <8gGDuoQ4cqrz@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes::  D >	Dell is quite unique.  Imagine if a car manufacturer kept lowering? >	prices as they wrenched effiecncies out of their suppliers?  c  G Well, that's what Henry Ford did (although he streamlined manufacturinghO processes more than muscling suppliers).  And through the early 'teens, anyway,aM he kept paying his workers _more_, while cutting prices.  The Dodge Brothers,$L formerly big stockholders in Ford, pulled out and founded Dodge because theyJ thought they could get a better ROI by not being so generous with workers.  O [That wasn't enough, eventually.  Ford's focus on building the same cars at the N same quality, cheaper and cheaper, drove him to stick with funky-looking blackN Model Ts, and the market moved past him with sportier-looking cars and a widerL range of engine choices, body types, etc, giving consumers more choice.  HisO efficiencies of mass production foundered as fewer units were sold, the companyrO got in trouble, and he lost control of the company; they then started competing L on pretty much the same basis as every other non-boutique auto manufacturer,J and he had free time to promulgate his racist opinions (bad) and promote a- revival of Victorian/Edwardian dance (good).]b  F If there's a lesson at all here, it's that you can't compete solely onL low-cost production except of totally interchangeable commodity products; itD doesn't matter how cheap you make it if people don't want to buy it.   -- ALanR   --  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056mM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025oO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:07:23 -0500 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> < Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)' Message-ID: <3F46941B.C9F81DED@fsi.net>u  
 Island wrote:  > I > My bet is that you will have to either give the System Serial# to buy a2B > license, or there will be a specific firmware-checksum required. > 1 > Running OpenVMS on Dell.... Carly would croak ! L > But you are right about DELL... sold a few used ones a couple of years ago > and never gone down. > G > Of course, Compaq Alpha s are even more reliable - in fact, our  DS10pC > web/mail server (running Tru64) has been nicknamed the "Blue Nun"w >  > Figure it out ;0)s   An old joke was:   "Why do they call 'em 'nuns'?"   "Cuz they get none."   -- l David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsA http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/P   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:33:37 GMT % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>m< Subject: Re: The Dell Effect (Was: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 ...)8 Message-ID: <lLx1b.7147$re.157801@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  4 Barry Treahy, Jr. <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote in message! news:3F46688C.5080607@MMaz.com...h > Charlie Hammond wrote: > * > >In article <3F4641CF.5020806@MMaz.com>,0 > >"Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: > >e > >a > >yH > >>If I had a choice of running VMS on a Dell or a HP, I wouldn't think > >>twice, Dell! > >> > >> > >eF > >Barry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your statement containsG > >the implicit assumption that the total cost of ownership for runninghH > >OpenVMS I64 on Dell hardware would be less than for running it on HP. > >i > >That may or may not be true.a > >i > >o > >9J > Agreed.  But, presuming that HP wants to continue to try and make itselfJ > the PC monarch, and Itanium systems are nothing more than PC's  (grantedE > with varying levels of robustness, features, quality, and hopefully9D > performance), then they (HP) will be competing in the same ItaniumH > market as IBM, Dell, and dozens of other PC manufacturers/distributorsH > striving to do the same thing, but perhaps more focused on Windows and > Linux as the OS. >tI > >The cost of Dell harwware qualified to run OpenVMS may be more or lessaL > >than the cost of similar HP hardware.  Similarly, the cost of maintaining: > >the system (hardware and software) may be more or less. > >I > > G > Maybe, but how many PC manufacturers/distributors do this for non VMShE > OS's?  I suspect few since much of the product if off-the-shelf andsD > Windoze has standard enough drivers to at least allow for mediocre, > performance...  I didn't say stability :-) >mL > >My personal guess -- NOT necessarily reflecting HP or OpenVMS engineeringJ > >thinking -- is that Dell hardware *MAY* at some future time be a viableF > >alternative for *SOME* systems running OpenVMS, while others may be better
 > >run on HP.  > > 1 > >It will be interestiong to see what developes.t > >m > >e > >OG > As for our company, we gave up on Compaq systems over size years ago, I > when we had an affiliate that used to be a VAR and we could get them atsJ > disty pricing.  Since that time, we've not purchased or used a HP/CompaqH > system and have no plans in the foreseeable future, so if VMS will runE > on a Dell Itanium, that will work for us simply because long ago wemH > standardized on Dell for Windoze because price and support does matterJ > (something Compaq knew nothing about).  As for reconsidering HP, franklyG > they make great test equipment (Agilent) and printers, but I've neverr6 > had a motivation to consider their Wintel systems... >wF Have you looked at the HP/Compaq Blade servers lately???  You might be surprised.  We where!s  J Our NT folks bought Dell servers (About 700+) for the last 3 years becauseG Compaq just could not compete.  After demoing a short rack of the bladenK servers this summer,  they are switching back to HP blade servers.  We have  2 racks of them so far.e  
 > Regards, >x > Barryo >d > -- >s@ > Barry Treahy, Jr                       E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com@ > Midwest Microwave                          Phone: 480/314-1320@ > Vice President & CIO                         FAX: 480/661-7028 >t >  >o >d   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Aug 03 20:23:53 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)b1 Subject: Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.h) Message-ID: <P87ZeBF8kIMg@elias.decus.ch>y  ` In article <bi4vjs$59qrt$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:) > On 22-Aug-2003 07:54, Paul Sture wrote:  > q >> In article <aus-F51DAF.18030120082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:iF >>> Is it possible to tell Open VMS that the client terminal is using  >>> Unicode character code?  Q >>>  >> 8 >> Not as far as I know. >> 5D >>> I'm trying to use the Terminal in Mac OS X with German Umlautes. > C > Can you set the terminal (emulator?) characteristics on your Mac?- >   # Yes, but there aren't many options.    >>  E >> Before talking about VMS connections, can you even get Terminal toO/ >> respond to _any_ of the accented characters?3 >> iH >> I have a Swiss German keyboard here and Terminal simply locks up if II >> try those characters (hitting space unlocks the keyboard at that pointr >> BTW). >>  > >> FWIW, I have mentioned this problem on several occasions inI >> comp.sys.mac.system over the past 15 months and so far nobody has comew; >> up with a decent answer. It is a serious deficiency IMO.b >>  G >> A general question here folks. I know that in Motif/CDE/DECwindows IhH >> can select, for example "ISO Latin 1", but coming in from a differentH >> platform via telnet, SSH, whatever, what are the legitimate ones that >> VMS recognizes? > ? > According to the "DCL Dictionary, Part II" only "ISO Latin 1"= > (ISO-8859-1?) will be valid. > H > I suppose you have already experimented with the various qualifiers ofH > "SET TERMINAL", i.e. "/[NO]INQUIRE", "/DEC_CRT=value" ("3" setting theD > terminal to the "ISO Latin 1" character set), "/DEVICE_TYPE=type",  > "/EIGHT_BIT", "/FALLBACK", ... >   H Bingo. After quite a bit of messing around in Terminal, visiting the MacF Help Center, you suggestion prompted me to abandoned it in favour of a VMS solution :-)  B The following got me there for VMS (although not in Terminal - I'd2 like this to work at the Mac command prompt too*).  G Login to VMS (with ssh, I have telnet disabled, so haven't tested that)m  # $ set terminal/device=vt300/eighbitN  , and I get my accented characters :-) :-) :-)  H * my mistake all along had been to try getting _Terminal_ to display the accented characters on its own.t   VMS wins again :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:38:58 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 8 Subject: Re: volume shadowing with 2 x IDE disks on Ds103 Message-ID: <JZMiWoxhGFOY@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  c In article <rwQQK6IDhZ4A@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:-[ > In article <Rep1b.3093$DB6.966@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com> writes:/ >> It is not supported >> see5 >> http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP2729/SP2729PF.PDFv > @ > What line in that document makes you say it is not supported ?     	Our old friend:  1 Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS provides support fort6 SCSI disks and controllers on Alpha systems. Shadowing1 can also be used with third-party SCSI disks thatl7 have READL (read long) and WRITEL (write long) commandsn) implemented and that use the OpenVMS SCSI.9 disk driver. Features are restricted when SCSI disks that 2 do not support READL and WRITEL are shadowed; disk6 bad-block errors resulting from the use of these disks/ can cause members to be removed from the shadowP set.    @ 	Now maybe these IDE drives support SCSI READL/WRITEL?  The only> 	way I would do shadowing without READL/WRITEL is if there wasF 	a worthy (or better) substitute for READL/WRITEL (i.e. you never get / 	bad blocks, for instance - many months uptime:e  
 	$ show errora   	Looks like this:t     <NODE1>$ show errM, Device                           Error Count* $20$DQA1: (NODE1)                        1* $20$DQB0: (NODE1)                        1* $20$DQB1: (NODE1)                        1     				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:39:24 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32500 Message-ID: <3F46617F.70DAE25D@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bob Koehler wrote: > U > In article <bht3ra$adm$1$830fa7b3@news.demon.co.uk>, Alan <alan@nospam.com> writes:. > >2 > >13 > > Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 ?r >  >    Buy one and let us know.e  < Actually, couldn't VMS engineering buy one then let us know.  7 ah, then they would have to qualify it in clusters etc.c   -- h tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:44:48 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32500 Message-ID: <3F4662C2.BAFA07F8@blueyonder.co.uk>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > jlsue wrote:  e > F > Well perhaps you could offer two levels of qualification, standalone > and clustered.  L I see this as doing more harm than good. Say a business invests in a single,G not-cluster-qualified system, then a few more, then wants to move up togG a cluster,  a hardware upgrade is required as well as cluster licenses.wJ The opposition would I am sure make much of this and other similar issues.       > D > > If you consider standalone systems, it's much simpler of course. > >      -- r tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:16:16 GMTo8 From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <p.jacobi@nononospam.comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250- Message-ID: <Q7A1b.173105$cF.59703@rwcrnsc53>   L <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote in message news:bi3ntl05o7@enews4.newsguy.com...K > I take it this would eventually be a good system for Hobbyist usage then?n  L No, the Intel Tiger box is really only appropiate for the computer room.  It/ sound like a vacuum cleaner in the office area.@  J The cheapest Itanium system would be the HP ZX2000, starting at $3,298.00.* The noise level is comparable to a x86 PC.  . http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/zx2000/     Paul A. Jacobi Hewlett Packard CompanyD! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14a 110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698a$ Email: Paul dot Jacobi at hp dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 2003 04:05:56 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com : Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250, Message-ID: <bi6p74010im@enews4.newsguy.com>  7 Paul A. Jacobi <p.jacobi@nononospam.comcast.net> wrote:tN > <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote in message news:bi3ntl05o7@enews4.newsguy.com...M > > I take it this would eventually be a good system for Hobbyist usage then?e  N > No, the Intel Tiger box is really only appropiate for the computer room.  It1 > sound like a vacuum cleaner in the office area.   I Since I hope to eventually be able to aquire one at no cost, and since it:L would end up in a garage that will have been converted into a computer room, noise isn't an issue.m  J Besides, since people are running Hobbyist VAX 6xxx and 8xxx class system,@ as well as 4100's as hobbyist systems, what's a little noise :^)  L > The cheapest Itanium system would be the HP ZX2000, starting at $3,298.00., > The noise level is comparable to a x86 PC.  G I wonder how fast these will drop in price.  At the moment I'll have togK continue with my PWS 433au, unfortunalty as a Hobbyist I can't afford a newu" ZX2000.  Will it even run OpenVMS?   			Zane    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.465 ************************ the best IP stack for VMS ... it runs9 crisper than multinet or ucx in a head to head comparisont< between the 3, plus it is still based on the VMS kernel well% the others are unix (yuck!) based ....   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:51:56 GMTL% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>.A Subject: Shadow or Raid.  - Don't do both!  WAS Re: 306GB drives!e8 mM$s!!2+<aPꏧ+xܩׇzeg/-ilJSt 3i̤?/&!$C6-i&2d(@K_Д_)>gY-*woqyf7`Gtpt5Os橁Zq·Au'ˎU<!gy`d^(C  Vb/!hLfzקa	ӑ}m2rYy;V$uaD1iaL-2@ieP|*#Z)`8?CqA
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