1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 28 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 476       Contents:- Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal. - Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal. - Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal. - Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal. - Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal. J Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS?J Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS?P Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS? in VMP Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screensin VMS? VMS?VM DFG 2.7 error on IDE disk  Re: Enabling Proxy Access ( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/7509 Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP 9 Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP 9 Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP  Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security Re: OpenVMS Security$ Re: Patching Ident field of an Image$ Re: Patching Ident field of an Image$ Re: Patching Ident field of an Image$ Re: Patching Ident field of an Image5 PC-NFS on OpenVMS how does it assign the UID/GID pair  Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD  Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD  Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD read on socket returns zero & Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives!& Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives! Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstreamP Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support muP Re: Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it supporP Re: Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it suppor( Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.( Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal." Re: Ups monitor to run on OpenVms. We need your DS10 Systems 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250   Re: XML Parser for VAX (OpenVMS)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:02:52 -0500 / From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com> 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.8 Message-ID: <qpkrkvg6ugadv3o9md31f5b0bjk362j3de@4ax.com>    http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/  G On 28 Aug 03 07:54:44 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   r >In article <dlHCZ5Atlz2z@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:q >> In article <aus-F51DAF.18030120082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, Hans Aus <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes: F >>> Is it possible to tell Open VMS that the client terminal is using  >>> Unicode character code?    >>> D >>> I'm trying to use the Terminal in Mac OS X with German Umlautes. >>  K >>    You don't need Unicode to get an umlaute.  You need a better terminal K >>    emulator.   If you get the X server from Apple you can run a DECterm, 7 >>    and map one of the non-DECish keys to be Compose.  >>   > A >Excuse me Bob, but I went looking for the "X server from Apple", E >but only found pointers to a couple of non-Apple sites, one of which   >appeared to be a Linux version. > 8 >Do you have any pointers to the "X server from Apple" ? >  >TIA.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 08:03:12 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.3 Message-ID: <dHJZ84BjbSf1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <L$z8QSXJvPa8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:   B > Excuse me Bob, but I went looking for the "X server from Apple",F > but only found pointers to a couple of non-Apple sites, one of which! > appeared to be a Linux version.  > 9 > Do you have any pointers to the "X server from Apple" ?   E    I ran into it the last time I visited www.apple.com.  I don't have D    a specific pointer anymore, but a search of thier web site should    turn it up.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 08:04:15 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.3 Message-ID: <YY1btpzRJmkn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <L$z8QSXJvPa8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:  > 9 > Do you have any pointers to the "X server from Apple" ?   =    OBTW, I should mention that I'm still happier useing MacX.    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 03 19:03:21 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.) Message-ID: <$+3HOVc6DcTl@elias.decus.ch>   q In article <dHJZ84BjbSf1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: W > In article <L$z8QSXJvPa8@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:  > C >> Excuse me Bob, but I went looking for the "X server from Apple", G >> but only found pointers to a couple of non-Apple sites, one of which " >> appeared to be a Linux version. >>  : >> Do you have any pointers to the "X server from Apple" ? > G >    I ran into it the last time I visited www.apple.com.  I don't have F >    a specific pointer anymore, but a search of thier web site should >    turn it up. > A Got it now thanks. Strangely, searching their web site hadn't got 	 me there.    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 03 18:47:36 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 6 Subject: Re: ??== Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.) Message-ID: <2UKFB1j9dIga@elias.decus.ch>   j In article <qpkrkvg6ugadv3o9md31f5b0bjk362j3de@4ax.com>, Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com> writes:   <snip>   9 >>Do you have any pointers to the "X server from Apple" ?  >>  " > http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/   Thanks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:06:26 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> S Subject: Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS? 2 Message-ID: <m7n3b.3514$O_5.2793@news.cpqcorp.net>  + "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message , news:bij86v$lah$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   > K > Mmmmm. I just don't see why someone would still use the 7000, if the 7500  isL > also available for a peanut price. I suppose there must be a reason....... >   I Cost.  If you want to run Windows, even as a server, you still need those I pesky graphics/mouse/keyboard devices.  The R7000 is pretty much the same I for 2D as the R7500, so if all you want to do is provide 2D graphics then K it's fine.  Hardware types tend to be thrilled if they can save 25 cents (I I don't know the cost of the chip, it's probably a bit more than 25 cents).   H > And since you're starting to port for higher end cards, please give us drivers G > for a All-In-Wonder version, so we can watch TV and use the ES47 as a  digital 6 > VCR (Just kidding of course, I couldn't resist :-) ) >   % Were it as simple as "just" a driver.    > L > I don't know either, but I can check tomorrow :-). It seems to me that ATI is aF > bit different in this respect. nVidea always was a pure 3D game card	 producer, K > where as ATI was known to produce cards with high quality 2D performance,  and L > very good quality analog video output, making them ideal for 'office' work (just 
 > as Matrox).   L Actually, I would give that honor to 3DLabs.  But it is also their achillies/ heel, since it is an increasingly niche market.   C >And today ATI has the FireGL cards for workstations, incl. drivers ) > for Linux. Maybe there is still hope ??  >   J The FireGL is the IBM technology I referenced earlier, and what we hope toL do next (frankly, it's what we wanted to do 2 years ago or so when IBM stillE owned it).  There is the really optimized UNIX code, and the somewhat L optimized Linux code (sound familiar?).  We still need to strike the deal to get access to the good stuff.    > I > Thanks for the extensive reply. Sorry you were not in Atlanta, I really  would  > have liked to shake hands. >   I They don't let me out often.  I do plan to try to walk across the parking % lot for the upcomming November event.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:30:23 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> S Subject: Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS? 2 Message-ID: <jep3b.3535$sb6.3415@news.cpqcorp.net>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message 3 news:bil0qi$am7rp$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de... . > On 28-Aug-2003 15:06, Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 	 > > [...]  > > G > > Cost.  If you want to run Windows, even as a server, you still need  those H > > pesky graphics/mouse/keyboard devices.  The R7000 is pretty much the sameH > > for 2D as the R7500, so if all you want to do is provide 2D graphics thenL > > it's fine.  Hardware types tend to be thrilled if they can save 25 cents (IE > > don't know the cost of the chip, it's probably a bit more than 25  cents).  > > 	 > > [...]  > I > I've seen adapter cards where the "engineers" saved the cost for a real I > fuse and made the power line on the printed circuit board narrow enough  > to act as a fuse ... >   L Tragic examples:  There was an AlphaServer a long time ago that had a CirrusH logic dumb VGA with 500Kb of memory.  We wrote code for it.  Useless.  IJ once worked on a project where someone decided to save literally less thanH 25 cents - they removed the level shifters from the serial line so it no longer was capable of RS232.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:22 +0200 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screens in VMS? in VM 9 Message-ID: <bil0qi$am7rp$1@ID-152801.news.uni-berlin.de>   , On 28-Aug-2003 15:06, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:   > [...]  > K > Cost.  If you want to run Windows, even as a server, you still need those K > pesky graphics/mouse/keyboard devices.  The R7000 is pretty much the same K > for 2D as the R7500, so if all you want to do is provide 2D graphics then M > it's fine.  Hardware types tend to be thrilled if they can save 25 cents (I K > don't know the cost of the chip, it's probably a bit more than 25 cents).  >  > [...]   G I've seen adapter cards where the "engineers" saved the cost for a real G fuse and made the power line on the printed circuit board narrow enough  to act as a fuse ...   Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. @ Please do *not* send "Security Patch Notifications" or "SecurityA Updates"; this system isn't running a Micro$oft operating system. = And don't annoy me <mailto:postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> please ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:08:09 -0400 - From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> Y Subject: Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support multiple screensin VMS? VMS?VM 0 Message-ID: <3F4E36F9.87EA1EF5@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   Michael Unger wrote:I > I've seen adapter cards where the "engineers" saved the cost for a real I > fuse and made the power line on the printed circuit board narrow enough  > to act as a fuse ...  M I had a PDP 11/34 whose POWER SUPPLY was built like that.  Melted down at 3AM + Sunday morning one fine day many years ago.   M To bring this back on-topic, at about the same time (late 70's), I spotted my G first VAX 11/780.  The system manager liked to brag in hushed tones, to N everyone's amazement, that his brand new computer NEVER crashed.  Of course weL all went home to our respective universities, located our DEC sales rep with% some difficulty, and ordered our own.     - JB    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:28:50 -0400 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>" Subject: DFG 2.7 error on IDE disk- Message-ID: <3F4DBD42.1643.D6A57FC@localhost>   ? Every time I attempt to defrag one of my IDE disks on my Alpha   (running V7.3-1), I get:  A %DFG-F-MOVFILQIOERR, QIO error on movefile for volume _FAST$DQA0: ' -SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value    Any suggestions?       The full log is:  ( Disk File Optimizer for OpenVMS DFG V2.7A     Time:                                            19-AUG-2003   05:00:09.09 =     Process ID:                                      20200257 9     Node:                                            FAST      Run time parameters:6         Defragmentation level:                       27         Defragment placed files:                     No 8         Defragment indexed files:                    Yes:         Log file report:                             Brief7         Notify user by mail:                         No 8         Notify user by opcom:                        Yes6         Default priority:                            46         Minimum priority:                            37         Query hotfile database:                      No 6         RVN to defragment:                           08         Consolidate freespace:                       Yes8         Perform write check:                         Yes          Defragmentation process start             Process ID: 20200257         Device: _FAST$DQA0: %         Time: 19-AUG-2003 05:00:10.19       (     Volume name:             _FAST$DQA0:"     Media name:              IDE50     Cluster factor:          77 %     Number of blocks:        80043264    A Begin file evaluation phase:                         19-AUG-2003   05:00:11.21    A     Candidates for defragmentation (based on the defragmentation   level):       A Begin free space consolidation:                      19-AUG-2003   05:01:00.55 ! There are 286 consolidation areas C     ERROR   DISK$FAST_USER:[EMOM.SYS1.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]TPSERV.EXE;1          FID: (83429,1,0)          Relative volume number 0'         LBN number on disk     76807962 "         Number of LBNs to move 154          Starting VBN in file   1A %DFG-F-MOVFILQIOERR, QIO error on movefile for volume _FAST$DQA0: ' -SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter value 
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:53:04 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net> " Subject: Re: Enabling Proxy Access8 Message-ID: <kourkv8uddd89r9rh1d91ir2fnelse7f71@4ax.com>   That will do it.     Cheers,  	Dave.      F On 26 Aug 2003 15:33:37 -0500, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  a >In article <rb3nkvkungjrabobj8077egntt1n8qajmk@4ax.com>, David Gray <police@spamcop.net> writes:  >>  A >> The live server is an ES45 running DECnet-plus and I have just > >> replaced the pre-installed Decnet-IV with plus on the DS20. >  >> SPIKE] dir tom:: 6 >> %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening TOM::*.*;* as input2 >> -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed/ >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHNODE, remote node is unknown  > ? >   Looks like you didn't register the nodes in the DECnet-Plus * >   data base.  Use "mcr decnet_register". > H >   Both DECnet Phase IV and DECnet-PLus also have commands for updatingG >   flushing their proxy data base with the latest UAF values.  I don't F >   recall the DECNet-Plus NCL command for this, but it's something to >   do with "flush".   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 03 08:14:58 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 ) Message-ID: <psYRkBOQRpoh@elias.decus.ch>   e In article <3F4D425C.66422A19@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  > Bob Blunt wrote: >>  K >> None of the 11/75x systems I ran was bootable without the TU58, from the G >> rackmount 11/751s we used, built and integrated at Intergraph to the H >> pure DEC versions I had in secure environments.  Like the 11/780, youJ >> had to load the "microcode" (or WCS, etc) from the cartridge to get theH >> system to a point where it would toss control to BOOT58 and load VMB. > B > I used to manage two 11/750s that could boot directly from UDA50; > attached RA60s.  I think it was boot switch position "D".  > H > I have a vague recollection that we needed some sort of ROM upgrade to0 > make this work.  Perhaps we had ROM microcode? >   D All the OEM 11/750s I used had what I recall as being a piece of ROMD to do that. The only 11/750s I came across (not many) which requiredE TU58s to boot were genuine 100% DEC ones. I have no idea whether that " ROM was a DEC or third party item.   ------------------------------  ( Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:22 +0100 (BST)9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 @ Message-ID: <memo.20030828142213.940A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>  3 In article <xAa3b.3482$Nz5.3401@news.cpqcorp.net>,  2 robert.blunt@hp.donotspamme.com (Bob Blunt) wrote:   > msell wrote: > >  > > Hello everyone,  > >  > > K > > I was wondering if anyone on this newsgroup has a suggestion on how to  1 > > connect a dual-TU58 tape drive to a QBus VAX?  > > K > > I found a document describing how to configure an M7940 (which I have)  L > > for operation with a TU58, and my QBus VAX (MicroVAX II) recognizes the G > > drives (the interface, actually) - so the card at least appears to   > > partially operate. > > H > > However - when I try to "mount" a tape, there is no activity on the L > > interface (M7940) as tested with a logic probe. This board came from an K > > LSI-11/03 in a VAX 11/780, and I believe this board to be operational.  M > > The point of using the logic probe is to make a cable to attach the dual   > > TU58 to the M7940. > > F > > The goal is to create a set of boot tapes for my 11/750. I have a L > > working VAXCluster with 4000's, and two MicroVAXes, and I'd like to get  > > this 11/750 booting. > > @ > > Has anyone here been successful in using a M7940 with TU58s? > > * > > Am I barking up the wrong tree?    : ) > >  > > Thanks for the insight!  > >  > >  > >     - Matt > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > J > The M7940 card is what we called a DLV11 in the ancient days, and I can G > remember slapping a variant in a MicroVAX and having it come up as a  H > device that controlled the TU58 as well.  However, that was because I J > had strapped the CSR and Vector (with my wire-wrap tool, no less) to an J > alternate address to which VMS responded improperly.  Now the DLV11 did G > a bunch of things, but I don't recall that it drove TU58s.  I've got  J > various old paperback Interface manuals and whatnot, I'll try and check ' > to see if some permutation jumps out.  > K The DLV11 was the standard interface used for the TU58 on many QBUS PDP-11  M systems - not sure if it was used that way on VAX systems. (By the time that  O the VAX systems came out who would want to use the terrible performance of the  & TU58 if they could possibly avoid it.)G Try using SYSGEN to see what vector and address VMS expects for a TU58  H controller and set one of the channels of the DLV11 to that. From (very M suspect) memory, 38400 baud was usable for a machine not running an OS (i.e.  J booting) but if an OS was running then 9600 baud was the maximum that was 	 reliable.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:13:01 GMT ( From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com>B Subject: Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP2 Message-ID: <N5o3b.3523$oA5.3211@news.cpqcorp.net>   Ken R.,   H Did you call the 800 number and put in an application?  I don't know if 8 you qualify, but those are the folks you should contact.  G BTW, the DSPP SDK for OpenVMS Alpha does not support VAX systems.  The  H media kits and LMF PAKS may work on VAX systems, but I don't test them. G   I've already requested that the Itanium bits for V8.1 be included in  
 the DSPP SDK.    Bob K.,   D I'm sorry that the website isn't clear about internet access to the H systems.  When we receive a request, we set up an Alpha system with the I cross tools and an Itanium system.  The partner gets exclusive access to  E them, privs., and you may use FTP and TELNET after sending us the IP  B address that you will be coming from.  Both the AMTCs in Reading, H England and Littleton, Mass. support Internet access as well as on-site  visits.   I I'm also working on a project to set up an OpenVMS Itanium system on the  H HP test drive.  The access to that system will be shared among all test I drive users and there will be no privileged users allowed.  Watch for an  H announcement on the portal, http://www.hp.com/dspp/ and anywhere else I  can get it posted.   Mark   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 09:59:57 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) B Subject: Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP3 Message-ID: <Zmf7svFvqWAl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <N5o3b.3523$oA5.3211@news.cpqcorp.net>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com> writes:    > Watch for an  J > announcement on the portal, http://www.hp.com/dspp/ and anywhere else I  > can get it posted.  F Someplace that does not require JavaScript would be good, for those ofE us who are relegated by current policy to being postal-mail-only DSPP  members.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 08:35:48 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) B Subject: Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0308280735.67ed961d@posting.google.com>   t kenneth.randell@verizon.net (Ken Randell) wrote in message news:<79de9693.0308271139.6920f731@posting.google.com>...@ > Thanks for the response.  I understand that you must have thisG > mentioned "company benefits"...I was simply pointing out that someone C > somewhere is making a differentiation (and therefore DSPP program A > 'benefits') between potential small time folks who could/can do @ > independent VMS contracting work and those who actually have a! > commercial product(s) for sale.  > E > The DSPP application process for companies wants information (i.e., C > products, etc.) that a small-time consultant guy is not likely to @ > have, at least not at start-up.  On the DSPP requirements pageE > under the section 'for company membership', it talks about having a 1 > product or service commercially available, etc.   D Don't be discouraged by the questions about software products.  ThatA just reflects their eagerness to help you advertise your software F product if you have one.  They won't turn you down if you don't have aA software product.  Just answer the questions as Not Applicable or 	 whatever.   B When I joined the Digital ASAP program in 1996, they didn't reallyE know what to do with a consultant, and kept badgering me for software D product information.  When ASAP was merged into the Compaq SolutionsD Alliance (CSA), consultants were openly welcomed in their own right,B apparently since there were a lot of them in the Compaq world, andD that positive attitude toward consultants seems to have continued as% CSA was merged into the DSPP program.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:13:11 +0100 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security ' Message-ID: <bikrhb$9i5$1@lore.csc.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:O > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ? > > wrote in message news:biie4h$gep$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > > 7 > >>>Can you identify which CERT you are referring to ?  > >>>  > >>< > >>POD, LAND and a number of other IP stack vunerabilities. > >> > >  > > N > > Arguably, VMS "has no IP stack" integrated as part of the OS.  At minimum,K > > one would need to identify which IP stack is actually installed for the P > > system to be vulnerable - as they are by no means the same code bases, and IL > > would expect differing strengths and vulnerabilities.  I would also noteN > > that until perhaps 4-5 years ago, most VMS customers probably were runningN > > DECnet or DECnet/ISO stacks and so had no such issues... and yes, in orderL > > to co-exist in a IP world we end up getting at least some of the baggageD > > that comes with the UNIX origins of some of the code and design. > >  > >  > ; > Arguably but since the IP stack was packaged with OpenVMS  > its not a very good defence. > > > Sure you could avoid the problem by not installing the stackB > something thats pretty much true for most of the CERT advisories1 > don't use bind not vunerable to bind CERTS etc.  > @ > But not responding at all didn't alert OpenVMS admins that had> > installed or were thinking of installing the IP stack to the. > issues associated with the bundled IP stack. > C > This ignorance is dangerous and has interesting side effects like  > Bob for example.  H Please understand that the (anyones) IP stack to OpenVMS with regards toB the operating system, has a different position to that to say UNIXH (anybodies) as an operating system. A very fundamental difference. We're( talking operating system internals here.  F While you see "not" packaging some IP stack or other with OpenVMS as aF failure, the way OpenVMS grew up without one in the first place, meansC that whatever IP stack doesn't have the same dangerous, potentially H damaging little "hooks" into the kernel. As an add-on it has to obey the@ protection laws as laid down by the operating system architects.  < As you say, ignorance of facts can lead to wrong assertions.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:29:03 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 0 Message-ID: <biksij$c76$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Mark Berryman wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>( >>> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" + >>> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ? >>> wrote in message news:biie4h$gep$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  >>> 8 >>>>> Can you identify which CERT you are referring to ? >>>>>  >>>>= >>>> POD, LAND and a number of other IP stack vunerabilities.  >>>> >>>  >>> F >>> Arguably, VMS "has no IP stack" integrated as part of the OS.  At  >>> minimum,K >>> one would need to identify which IP stack is actually installed for the D >>> system to be vulnerable - as they are by no means the same code  >>> bases, and IL >>> would expect differing strengths and vulnerabilities.  I would also noteG >>> that until perhaps 4-5 years ago, most VMS customers probably were   >>> running I >>> DECnet or DECnet/ISO stacks and so had no such issues... and yes, in  	 >>> order L >>> to co-exist in a IP world we end up getting at least some of the baggageD >>> that comes with the UNIX origins of some of the code and design. >>>  >>>  >>< >> Arguably but since the IP stack was packaged with OpenVMS >> its not a very good defence.  >  > H > Wrong again, Andrew.  No IP stack was bundled with VMS at the time in F > question.  It had to be ordered separately and there were (and are)  > serveral to choose from. >   : If true where would an administrator using Digital/Compaqs1 stack go to discover that they were vunerable ???   @ The fact that it may or may not have been a separately orderable< product does not absolve Compaq from their responsibility to1 accurately report vunerabilities to that product.   > You could argue that because Compaq had the gall to charge for@ something that in almost every other OS was a standard component= then the very least they could have done was get the security  reporting sorted out.   = I hate to say this but arguing that the IP stack isn't really : part of OpenVMS and therefore doesn't need to be secure is( abouts as crass a point as you can make.    ? >> Sure you could avoid the problem by not installing the stack C >> something thats pretty much true for most of the CERT advisories 2 >> don't use bind not vunerable to bind CERTS etc. >>A >> But not responding at all didn't alert OpenVMS admins that had ? >> installed or were thinking of installing the IP stack to the / >> issues associated with the bundled IP stack.  >>D >> This ignorance is dangerous and has interesting side effects like >> Bob for example.  >  > I > There is ignorance being displayed here, but you are mistaken in where  
 > it lies. >   8 Ohh dear given your above points you don't seem to be in any shape to pass judgement.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  > Mark Berryman  >    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 07:52:39 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 3 Message-ID: <pogv+YPCo69d@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <biipgp$k9e$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > ? > Perhaps if you had responded to the 2and paragraph instead of ! > this one, but you didn't shame.   B    I see you're just trying to stir up one of your finger pointingB    name calling exchanges again.  Time to put you back in the kill    file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:38:35 +0100 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 0 Message-ID: <bikt4f$ce1$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > In article <bihul4$b9n$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:@ > :I only looked at 5 CERTS 4 of them were incorrect for OpenVMS > :it was vunerable.   > I >   Assuming that this is a legitimate technical discussion and that your K >   report here is not simply the furtherence of some Sun marketeering FUD, H >   which CERT reports are being cited here?  I'll get the CERT postingsC >   corrected, assuming the problems and the reports are still even  >   applicable.  > I >   On a related topic, I would like to thank your fellow Sun marketeers' H >   previous efforts toward FUD-ing this topic, as that effort has been K >   quite useful in improving OpenVMS and particularly the OpenVMS handling  >   of CERT security reports.  >   = That was me and I don't work for Sun Marketing, do you really B think that marketing people read CERTS and OpenVMS patch reports ?  + And yourresponse proves my point so thanks.   < Bob is talking about a trawl through all the CERT advisories not just the current ones.  : As you have said CERT reports for OpenVMS were not handled: correctly in the past, you also go on to say that this has changed.  < However it is that inaccurate historical record that Bob has> been trying to mine for FUD collateral against other operating systems.  ; Based on your statement this is a waste of time which is my  point as well.   Thanks   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 07:57:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 3 Message-ID: <ZB53VLjlgtL4@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <biksij$c76$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > @ > You could argue that because Compaq had the gall to charge forB > something that in almost every other OS was a standard component? > then the very least they could have done was get the security  > reporting sorted out.   G    Like Solaris and the C compiler?  How often do you clean the windows     in your glass house?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:18:42 -0400 < From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Security 9 Message-ID: <bila14$69sfj$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>   : >> In article <bihul4$b9n$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison< >> SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: 9 >>> I only looked at 5 CERTS 4 of them were incorrect for  OpenVMS  >>> it was vunerable.  >...   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:   9 >>   marketeering FUD, which CERT reports are being cited  here?  I'll  >...  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  ; A lot of stuff that did not answer the question "Which CERTU reports are being cited here?"  ; John Travell also asked Andrew "Can you identify which CERTU: you are referring to?" and Andrew replied "POD, LAND and a/ number of other IP stack vunerabilities (sic)."   9 I have also asked Andrew in the past for more informationl1 about his FUD, but the question was ignored. (SeeiHhttp://www.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=qjlo8.6849%24je5.51578%40nnrp1.uunet.ca&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2B%2522Andrew%2BHarrison%2BSUNUK%2522%2Bgroup:comp.os.vms%2Bauthor:*weaver*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3Dqjlo8.6849%2524je5.51578%2540nnrp1.uunet.ca%26rnum%3D2: or http://makeashorterlink.com/?M18521BB5 for the thread.)  > Andrew, please give us the actual URL's that for these "Number> of other IP stack" CERT reports and the URL's showing that VMS+ was vulnerable, otherwise STOP POSTING FUD!y  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  8 > That was me and I don't work for Sun Marketing, do you really: > think that marketing people read CERTS and OpenVMS patch	 reports ?a   According tou http://netscan.research.microsoft.com/reportcard.asp?timespan=y&searchdate=6/30/2003&NGID=26562&searchfor=comp.os.vms > (or http://makeashorterlink.com/?F3C421BB5) Andrew is the 26th= most active user on COMP.OS.VMS for the first 6 months of the > year. Click on "Profile" beside his name and you will see that> he also posts on alt.forklore.computers, but that was a thread& started in comp.os.vms and he posts in> comp.databases.oracle.server, but that was a thread about VMS.7 Do you really think a Sun employee who does not work ini5 Marketing would spend so much time posting about VMS?n   -- e Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.i Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXp www.weaverconsulting.cai   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 04:53:30 -0700* From: Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin)- Subject: Re: Patching Ident field of an Imagee< Message-ID: <79de16e3.0308280353.2a9033d@posting.google.com>   Some clarifications:  F 1) System builds are performed as daily builds using MMS. Only changedE    code gets built. It would take quite some time to build everything->    from scratch. No real build number available in that sense.  G 2) The code is stored in CMS with release classes controlling what getst7    fetched to source directories and ulitimately built.@  H 3) Just prior to creating kits a snapshot of the release class is taken,F    containing the code base for what has been built and is going to be
    delivered.a  C 4) Kits get names reflecting release and the snapshot class in CMS.e  E 5) It would be valuable to stamp the ident field with the name of the F    snapshot class. The Ident field appears in production logs when theG    programs are executed. This would make it simpler tracing the source /    code belonging to program producing the log.a   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 08:07:54 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Patching Ident field of an Imagee3 Message-ID: <BuyJ9nY4c3ij@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  i In article <79de16e3.0308280353.2a9033d@posting.google.com>, Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin) writes:b > Some clarifications: > H > 1) System builds are performed as daily builds using MMS. Only changedG >    code gets built. It would take quite some time to build everything @ >    from scratch. No real build number available in that sense. > I > 2) The code is stored in CMS with release classes controlling what gets:9 >    fetched to source directories and ulitimately built.J > J > 3) Just prior to creating kits a snapshot of the release class is taken,H >    containing the code base for what has been built and is going to be >    delivered.h > E > 4) Kits get names reflecting release and the snapshot class in CMS.e > G > 5) It would be valuable to stamp the ident field with the name of thenH >    snapshot class. The Ident field appears in production logs when theI >    programs are executed. This would make it simpler tracing the sourceb1 >    code belonging to program producing the log..  M Can't you make the production logs show the Image File Build Identification ?h  K I have not seen any response in this thread indicating why that field wouldl not solve your problems.   ------------------------------   Date: 28 AUG 2003 15:15:59 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>.- Subject: Re: Patching Ident field of an Imagev2 Message-ID: <28AUG03.15155925@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  B In a previous article, Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin) wrote: > Some clarifications: >  aH > 1) System builds are performed as daily builds using MMS. Only changedG >    code gets built. It would take quite some time to build everythingO@ >    from scratch. No real build number available in that sense. >  vI > 2) The code is stored in CMS with release classes controlling what getsn9 >    fetched to source directories and ulitimately built.. >  aJ > 3) Just prior to creating kits a snapshot of the release class is taken,H >    containing the code base for what has been built and is going to be >    delivered.  >  pE > 4) Kits get names reflecting release and the snapshot class in CMS." >  vG > 5) It would be valuable to stamp the ident field with the name of theeH >    snapshot class. The Ident field appears in production logs when theI >    programs are executed. This would make it simpler tracing the sourcer1 >    code belonging to program producing the log.-  I I've only half followed this thread so I've probably missed something youlG said along the way, but that won't keep me from sticking my 2 cents in.t  I Since the contents of the image file identification are controlled by thegH IDENTIFICATION option in the options file, giving the images the correctL identification is just a matter of updating your .OPT file(s) and relinking.3 That's hardly rebuilding everything "from scratch".h  L When I was working on a (no doubt much smaller) project with multiple imagesI and wanted to do a release, I updated the IDENTIFICATION lines in my .optAJ files, replaced the .opt files in the CMS library, built the release usingG MMS (the images all depended in part on the .opt files), created my CMSnI class(es) and released the version.  I used a short macro subroutine thatKE allowed a program to read the ident from its own image so my programsl( always displayed the correct ident line.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVIH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:32:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r- Subject: Re: Patching Ident field of an Imageo3 Message-ID: <al82AMB6hXSf@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  i In article <79de16e3.0308280353.2a9033d@posting.google.com>, Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin) writes:i > Some clarifications: > H > 1) System builds are performed as daily builds using MMS. Only changedG >    code gets built. It would take quite some time to build everything:@ >    from scratch. No real build number available in that sense.  "    How about a different approach?  F    We used an option file when building programs that defined a globalF    symbol in a format like symbol=n,xyyy, where x was the major build G    number and y was the minor build number, then displayed it in float u    as n/1000.0  F    Since we put the number into the options file, all we had to do wasF    update the options file and rerun MMS.  Our MMS dependencies listedD    the options file as a source dependency for each image, causing aB    relink.  Every image used the one options file so they were all"    identified as the same release.  H    Relinking all the images was much faster than a complete rebuild, andG    we didn't have to do anything fancy in our code to pick up the valueM2    of the global symbol (looks like it's address).   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 03:44:59 -07006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)> Subject: PC-NFS on OpenVMS how does it assign the UID/GID pair= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0308280244.5e7f14e5@posting.google.com>d   Hi,   D I am trying to set up my OpenVMS system with TCPIP service v5.3 with4 PC-NFS to assign the UID/GID pairs to my PC clients.  @ According to the documentation this is the sequence of events :-  C 1) The PC client sends a request for its UID/GID pair. This requestAF includes the PC's host name with an encoded representation of the user name and password.  C 2) PC-NFS responds by searching the proxy database and SYSUAF for ae, matching entry and by checking the password.  E 3) If a matching entry is located, PC-NFS returns the UID/GID pair to E the PC client. The PC stores the UID/GID pair for later NFS requests.e  B 4) If PC-NFS does not find an entry for the PC client in the proxy@ database, it maps the PC client to the default user TCPIP$NOBODY< account. In this case, restricted access is granted based on4 privileges established for the default user account.  F Trouble is the PC-NFS never seems to find a match, and I always end up with the default user.  F Is there anyway to see what the PC-NFS server is receiving and that isE needs to match to interms of user name, host name etc. ? And is there C a way to turn on logging to see what requests are received and whata the status is ?    Any input appreciated.   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:45:19 +0200 + From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>c% Subject: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORDn9 Message-ID: <bikivf$a0v6g$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>o  * Is the Philips 2600 supported by CDRECORD?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:21:45 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD 0 Message-ID: <00A250B5.1DF839D3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <bikivf$a0v6g$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:.+ >Is the Philips 2600 supported by CDRECORD?,  J I should have also asked, are you experiencing a problem that precipitated your question?   --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:18:45 GMT," From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORDa0 Message-ID: <00A250B4.B2B019EB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <bikivf$a0v6g$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:e+ >Is the Philips 2600 supported by CDRECORD?y   On what hardware?  s --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 09:29:04 -0700- From: bhushann@hotmail.com (Bhushan Narkhede)3$ Subject: read on socket returns zero< Message-ID: <8a3b834.0308280829.6e4b5c71@posting.google.com>   Hi,t  (    I am working on a vms socket program.I During the initial connection there is a successful read of 16 bytes thant2 during 2nd read on the socket fd, it returns zero., What could be the possible reasons for this.   Regards, B    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:49:25 +0200 A From: "Mart-info @ Martinnovations BV" <mhm.info@martinnovats.nl>A/ Subject: Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives! ? Message-ID: <001f01c36d41$b4da40d0$e2ba6dc2@martinnovations.nl>,   Hi,t  D One thing i didn't find mentioned here is the fact that in the laterB versions of VMS (V7.2++ IIRC) it is possible to specify prioritiesA for the individual shadowsets so that you can influence the order  of the merge actions.e; This can come-in very handy if you are low on I/O capacity.-  < It is done by specifying some sort of priority per shadowset< in logical names (on each cluster node) but don't ask me the2 details now, I've moved away from the site where i implemented this strategy.   Regards, Martin Hoogenboomo   ----- Original Message ----- n: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ( Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:58 AM/ Subject: Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives!i    K > shadow_max_copy is the number of threads that node can handle. What Keith  isK > saying is that you must have enough threads cluster wide to be able to do ' > all the copies/merges similtaneously.  > L > A few more things about shadow_max_copy. Firstly it can be used to balanceF > the merge load, so for instance if there is a node you don't want to handle' > merges, then set shadow_max_copy to 0x >fK > secondly this parameter is dynamic, and I believe only looked at when the  > thread starts. >o@ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0308251227.7df7bf3d@posting.google.com...o; > > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message . > news:<87vfsl8z8f.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>...I > > > Keith, is the number of threads per cluster? IE, if I have a 3 node H > > > cluster, many shadow sets and all node set at the default 4, if onB > > > node crashes do the other nodes do 4 each, or is it 4 total? > > G > > Yes, the number of threads to worry about is total available in the J > > cluster (sum of the values on each of the nodes).  So with the defaultB > > value for SHADOW_MAX_COPY of 4, if a node crashes, each of the6 > > remaining nodes can do 4 shadow threads at a time. >  >  >8 >3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:24:41 +0200 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>/ Subject: Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives!i- Message-ID: <bikoo7$rsb11@doiweb4.wob.vw.vwg>   % Mart-info @ Martinnovations BV wrote:8   > Hi,d > F > One thing i didn't find mentioned here is the fact that in the laterD > versions of VMS (V7.2++ IIRC) it is possible to specify prioritiesC > for the individual shadowsets so that you can influence the ordere > of the merge actions.N= > This can come-in very handy if you are low on I/O capacity.l > > > It is done by specifying some sort of priority per shadowset> > in logical names (on each cluster node) but don't ask me the4 > details now, I've moved away from the site where i > implemented this strategy. > 
 > Regards, > Martin Hoogenboom: >  > ----- Original Message ----- n< > From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> > To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>i* > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:58 AM1 > Subject: Re: Shadow_max Copy Was: 306GB drives!h >  >  > K >>shadow_max_copy is the number of threads that node can handle. What Keith3 >  > is > K >>saying is that you must have enough threads cluster wide to be able to dol' >>all the copies/merges similtaneously.. >>L >>A few more things about shadow_max_copy. Firstly it can be used to balanceF >>the merge load, so for instance if there is a node you don't want to >  > handle > ' >>merges, then set shadow_max_copy to 0> >>K >>secondly this parameter is dynamic, and I believe only looked at when thed >>thread starts. >>@ >>"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 >>news:cf15391e.0308251227.7df7bf3d@posting.google.com...  >>: >>>Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message >>. >>news:<87vfsl8z8f.fsf_-_@prep.synonet.com>... >>G >>>>Keith, is the number of threads per cluster? IE, if I have a 3 node F >>>>cluster, many shadow sets and all node set at the default 4, if on@ >>>>node crashes do the other nodes do 4 each, or is it 4 total? >>> F >>>Yes, the number of threads to worry about is total available in theI >>>cluster (sum of the values on each of the nodes).  So with the defaultuA >>>value for SHADOW_MAX_COPY of 4, if a node crashes, each of the 5 >>>remaining nodes can do 4 shadow threads at a time.n >> >> >> >> > k It is done via logicals names, which specify sort a weight factor between 100 and 1000 and defaults to 200: 4 (the higher to more IO's are dedicated to shadowing)  /   SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR is for all shadowsets,8   SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR_DSAnnn is for shadowset DSAnnn  a Every 1000 IO's or so, the shadowdriver rereads this logicals, so active merges can be controlled    (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)0/     --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regardss    Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.dea- mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de7   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:58:06 +0200 (MET)s9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreama; Message-ID: <01L005C20W20AMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  @ > Which suggests that rather than building the graphics into theB > workstation at the card level it should be embedded as a WindowsG > subsystem with its Windows compatible graphics card. Or turn the cart2J > completely around, and build the Alpha "workstation" as a box that plugs& > into a Windows PC and "extends" it.  > F > Pretty much everyone already has a PC sitting on their desk and theyG > probably don't want a second monitor/keyboard/mouse in any case.  HownC > many Alpha sales do you lose becuase it comes down to a choice to F > replace the PC with an Alpha - and that won't work because it CANNOTH > replace the PC. Recast the VMS workstation as a box which plugs into a6 > PC and extends it and you enter a whole new market.  > I > So don't.  Buy it from somebody with a larger market and lower per unitIB > costs and resell it.  Spend the development time on a PC<->AlphaG > interface or on the X11 client applications. Add value to a PC rather1 > than trying to replace it. e > D > And that is the market these days - HP is trying to sell expensiveH > workstations, generally to _replace_ PCs.  That's a very poor strategyG > because VMS machines cannot replace PCs in most instances and are not E > remotely cost competitive with them.  But since the PCs are already J > there, sell a product that EXTENDS them and you've got a new market. OneJ > where the argument "it can't do this (MS Word, whatever)" cannot be madeB > against the sale.  Rather one where "it can ALSO do this" is the > relevant selling point.   I You didn't include the appropriate "extended smiley", so I can't see how aF firmly your tongue is planted in your cheek (or, perhaps, between the G ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:s      o  we want a proper keyboardc  <    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA  5    o  we want to be able to plug in a VT and use that   I The problem is not that "VMS can't do WORD" or whatever.  The problem is aG that people have accepted Microsoft stuff as the de facto standard.  I  D think this is something which should be resisted, not something one  should accept.  B I don't have a problem with everyone using the same software or a I company having a monopoly.  The problem is that the de facto standard is wG of low quality.  I do have a problem with someone telling me I have to s1 use product X only because everyone else uses it.o  H The goal should be open standards for data exchange.  What applications G people use to produce documents in those standards (free software, bad bI proprietary solutions, good proprietary solutions, secretaries) is their n
 own business.d  C The false dichotomy proprietary software AND proprietary format vs.-? open-source software AND open-standard format is the problem.  k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:22:11 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>1# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream 8 Message-ID: <20030828092211.46102a6e.mathog@caltech.edu>  ( On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:58:06 +0200 (MET): Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:  I > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:  > ! >    o  we want a proper keyboard   = So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards. ? There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two piecesn? as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HP  still sells one!   > > >    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA  7 You're already buying between 1/3 and 1/2 of an old onea9 when you buy a graphics card for your Alpha from HP.  Bett6 your keyboard and mouse are also PC compatible.  So is7 the disk, the floppy, and the CD drive.  You're usuallye= comfortably (and expensively) Alpha proprietary when it comest. to power supply, motherboard, CPU, and memory.  B Think of the add on box as a headless DS10 with an extra interface@ card.  The same box could be controlled from another alpha, Mac,D or Linux box.  You just couldn't use it without some other interface providing machine.   > 7 >    o  we want to be able to plug in a VT and use thatA  3 Who says the extra box wouldn't have a serial port?r   > K > The problem is not that "VMS can't do WORD" or whatever.  The problem is  I > that people have accepted Microsoft stuff as the de facto standard.  I 5F > think this is something which should be resisted, not something one  > should accept.  7 Perhaps VMS diehards feel a constitutional need to swim  upstream in order to SPAWN ;-).t   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:36:08 +0200 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>_# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamj; Message-ID: <01L006HNSW0UAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>P  K > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:d > > # > >    o  we want a proper keyboarda > ? > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.sA > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two pieceseA > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HPo > still sells one!  D So I can use the LK401 layout on this newfangled thing AND on older > machines?  Or are we talking a proprietary keyboard here?  :-)  @ > >    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA > 9 > You're already buying between 1/3 and 1/2 of an old onen; > when you buy a graphics card for your Alpha from HP.  Beto8 > your keyboard and mouse are also PC compatible.  So is9 > the disk, the floppy, and the CD drive.  You're usually ? > comfortably (and expensively) Alpha proprietary when it comess0 > to power supply, motherboard, CPU, and memory.  I I don't mind PCI stuff in an ALPHA which is also in a PC.  I mean buying iF a Windows-running PC in order to use an ALPHA.  Or are you suggesting D that PCs be sold without Windows?  I don't think BG will allow that.  E In the past, required PC interfaces for doing VMS stuff was not well e received by VMS types.  9 > Perhaps VMS diehards feel a constitutional need to swimt! > upstream in order to SPAWN ;-).w  : Indeed.  I prefer /NOWAIT/PROMPT/NOTIFY/TRUSTED/TABLE  :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:19:29 GMTw9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>C# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamu2 Message-ID: <BQq3b.3557$Em6.1358@news.cpqcorp.net>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01L006HNSW0UAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... D > > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include: > > >o% > > >    o  we want a proper keyboardo > >aA > > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.KC > > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two piecesmC > > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HPu > > still sells one! >aE > So I can use the LK401 layout on this newfangled thing AND on olderP@ > machines?  Or are we talking a proprietary keyboard here?  :-) >P  L Heck.  You want the specs?   Find the old VCB01 manual.  Heck, it was in theI PRO-350 manual.  You want the LK411 programming information?  No problem,l I'll hunt it down.  L The trick is writing a driver for it, and teaching the PC applications about the new keycodes.u   >sJ > I don't mind PCI stuff in an ALPHA which is also in a PC.  I mean buyingG > a Windows-running PC in order to use an ALPHA.  Or are you suggestingaF > that PCs be sold without Windows?  I don't think BG will allow that. >s  L I think he is suggesting an "embedded" PC, perhaps running Windows CE or XP.L With a high-speed local connection to the VMS box.  You then, using whateverL protocol you want, send the X11 stuff out to it effectively using the remoteJ display capabilities of X11.  You would then need X11 server capability on0 the PC -- which pretty much means an X emulator.  6 That is.  The Multia.  With a high-speed interconnect.  L Which you can pretty much do today with any number of PC's or thin-clients -J using standard LAN connections.  And which pretty much *is* our mainstream	 strategy.n   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:30:24 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream 3 Message-ID: <nI5Fnk6ZyI15@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01L005C20W20AMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:.  K > You didn't include the appropriate "extended smiley", so I can't see how lH > firmly your tongue is planted in your cheek (or, perhaps, between the I > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:t > ! >    o  we want a proper keyboardo > > >    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA >    Agreed.t  K > The problem is not that "VMS can't do WORD" or whatever.  The problem is aI > that people have accepted Microsoft stuff as the de facto standard.  I  F > think this is something which should be resisted, not something one  > should accept.  @ Well I still use Word version 5.1A, the last version before they* added the virus-enabling Macro technology.  ? But I use it on a Macintosh, so integrating VMS with Windows ist, simply not even up for consideration for me.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:13:11 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>t# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreame2 Message-ID: <HKq3b.3555$Sm6.2928@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message2 news:20030828092211.46102a6e.mathog@caltech.edu...* > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:58:06 +0200 (MET)< > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote: > K > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:  > >m# > >    o  we want a proper keyboard  >n? > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.rA > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two piecesaA > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HP  > still sells one! >O  J Sigh.  We can blame IBM and Microsoft for the piss poor KB situation.  YouK can't do something "simple" to have an extended keyboard, you need a customsK KB driver.  And worse yet, there is no simple way to auto-detect a keyboardg type and load the right driver.p  H Eons ago, we sold a LK450 - and there was a Windows driver for it.  Long since gone.o  L What's missing on a PC keyboard is more than just a few keys.  It's also theJ engravings, and the positioning.  Going between keyboards kills me (I have7 to do it all the time) and I'm not even a great typist.   J We are looking at a this area (in relation to a think client, and terminal- emulator) to see what we can do with a LK463.c   > >n@ > >    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA >e9 > You're already buying between 1/3 and 1/2 of an old onee; > when you buy a graphics card for your Alpha from HP.  Bete8 > your keyboard and mouse are also PC compatible.  So is9 > the disk, the floppy, and the CD drive.  You're usuallyt? > comfortably (and expensively) Alpha proprietary when it comest0 > to power supply, motherboard, CPU, and memory. >tD > Think of the add on box as a headless DS10 with an extra interfaceB > card.  The same box could be controlled from another alpha, Mac,F > or Linux box.  You just couldn't use it without some other interface > providing machine. >n  H I still fail to see your point.  Even if you could create something likeK this, that say plugged into a PCI slot and had a direct memory window for a>K communication channel.  You *still* end up running on a X11 emulator on theeL PC.  Which is *fine* for simple text and menus.  So what about the customersD who need the performance of direct bus graphics for either 2D or 3D?  I That is, it might be fine for the mainstream - but it won't be fine for a I measureable amount of the customer base who we will *still* need to cater > to - or lose.  Will this PC dongle grow the VMS customer base?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:46:29 -0700u' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> Y Subject: Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it support mu,8 Message-ID: <20030828084629.28ac6ae9.mathog@caltech.edu>    On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:36:15 GMT: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote:  L > My thoughts are that everyone thinks there is a magic bullet.  The fact isG > that the chip/card vendors pay big teams of very good people to writeoI > Windows support as they develop the hardware.  They run hot and cold on,L > Linux/xFree86 (they all want to do something, but there isn't any money to! > be made in the small volumes). u  : Which suggests that rather than building the graphics into: the workstation at the card level it should be embedded as> a Windows subsystem with its Windows compatible graphics card.E Or turn the cart completely around, and build the Alpha "workstation" @ as a box that plugs into a Windows PC and "extends" it.  At that? point you only need to worry about optimizing the data transfero> from the Alpha to the PC for graphics (and whatever other dataC transfer options might be required).  In many cases simple 100baseTdE may be good enough, otherwise, a custom interface would be an option.s; Or sneak the data in via ATA, SCSI or even USB or firewire.nD Since HP would completely control the data transfer interface, there9 would be none of these "old hardware" issues which plagueo? the graphics cards and VMS drivers for them.  Go this route andrG the graphics driver software is no longer your problem.  The X11 servermF could be one of several commercially available products.  The customer- could even choose which X11 server they want.?  G 5 years ago this would have been more expensive than the current "pure"tC VMS method, but nowadays a graphics heavy but otherwise stripped PCsD might run only $400-$500.  HP could stop developing a "pure" VMS X11C server and drivers ( = "cost savings") and only need to worry aboutt" the client software (decterm etc.)  D Pretty much everyone already has a PC sitting on their desk and theyP probably don't want a second monitor/keyboard/mouse in any case.  How many AlphaE sales do you lose becuase it comes down to a choice to replace the PC-E with an Alpha - and that won't work because it CANNOT replace the PC.nE Recast the VMS workstation as a box which plugs into a PC and extendst& it and you enter a whole new market.      - > The Linux/xFree86 code that does exist is aeL > mixture of good, and really, really bad (take a look at the DRI/DRM designL > sometime).  It is also nowhere near as good as the Windows code.  In fact,K > the vendors won't even tell us how to use certain features in the chips -eI > because it is a competetive advantage that they fear will leak to theiroE > competition, and so it only appears in the Windows implementations.   F That's true and not true.  The Xig commercial X11 server is very good.F We use it with 3Dlabs Wildcat 5100 cards on systems which dual boot to> Windows XP, and the graphics speed is very close on both OS's.C Xig on Radeon 8500 is also comparable in speed to Radeon 8500 on XP  (with ATI's drivers.)$   > A > Development time for the *quality* of code that the traditionalrC > UNIX/Workstation customers want for 3D takes significant time andC7 > resources - and we haven't found a way to shrink it. v  B So don't.  Buy it from somebody with a larger market and lower per5 unit costs and resell it.  Spend the development time < on a PC<->Alpha interface or on the X11 client applications.3 Add value to a PC rather than trying to replace it.   B And that is the market these days - HP is trying to sell expensiveF workstations, generally to _replace_ PCs.  That's a very poor strategyE because VMS machines cannot replace PCs in most instances and are notsJ remotely cost competitive with them.  But since the PCs are already there,= sell a product that EXTENDS them and you've got a new market._G One where the argument "it can't do this (MS Word, whatever)" cannot be=E made against the sale.  Rather one where "it can ALSO do this" is thep relevant selling point.%     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:03:56 GMTl9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>hY Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it supporS2 Message-ID: <0Cq3b.3551$Zj6.2370@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message2 news:20030828084629.28ac6ae9.mathog@caltech.edu..." > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:36:15 GMT< > "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote: >a     >s< > Which suggests that rather than building the graphics into< > the workstation at the card level it should be embedded as@ > a Windows subsystem with its Windows compatible graphics card.G > Or turn the cart completely around, and build the Alpha "workstation"oB > as a box that plugs into a Windows PC and "extends" it.  At thatA > point you only need to worry about optimizing the data transfers@ > from the Alpha to the PC for graphics (and whatever other dataE > transfer options might be required).  In many cases simple 100baseT G > may be good enough, otherwise, a custom interface would be an option.A= > Or sneak the data in via ATA, SCSI or even USB or firewire.-F > Since HP would completely control the data transfer interface, there; > would be none of these "old hardware" issues which plague A > the graphics cards and VMS drivers for them.  Go this route andeI > the graphics driver software is no longer your problem.  The X11 serverSH > could be one of several commercially available products.  The customer/ > could even choose which X11 server they want.e >v  K No matter what you do here, you are still going external to a system with atH *non-native X11 display subsystem*.  The X11 server & emulation code forI most PC's running Windows isn't something to write home about - great foreD text & menus.  It doesn't address the 3D pipeline either, where fastK transfer of vectors, textures, and image data is important (and where MS is ) actively working to try and kill OpenGL).o  F At best all you are doing is giving the existing VMS ->lan-> PC betterL latency and bandwidth out of the pipeline we have today.  Big deal.  GeneralH purpose 2D graphics is already "fast enough" even with a LAN connection.  I > 5 years ago this would have been more expensive than the current "pure"4E > VMS method, but nowadays a graphics heavy but otherwise stripped PCtF > might run only $400-$500.  HP could stop developing a "pure" VMS X11E > server and drivers ( = "cost savings") and only need to worry aboutc$ > the client software (decterm etc.) >   K I think you are dreaming here a bit on both price, magnitude of effort, and  performance.  F > Pretty much everyone already has a PC sitting on their desk and theyL > probably don't want a second monitor/keyboard/mouse in any case.  How many Alpha G > sales do you lose becuase it comes down to a choice to replace the PCtG > with an Alpha - and that won't work because it CANNOT replace the PC.JG > Recast the VMS workstation as a box which plugs into a PC and extends & > it and you enter a whole new market. >   G And for the most part, this *is* our mainstream strategy.  Use your PC,iI JAVA, X emulator, etc.  But that doesn't account for those who want - foroF whatever reason - to run directly on a VMS system with no PC.  Nor the- custom applications.  Or custom 3D solutions.    >p/ > > The Linux/xFree86 code that does exist is atG > > mixture of good, and really, really bad (take a look at the DRI/DRM  designH > > sometime).  It is also nowhere near as good as the Windows code.  In fact,nE > > the vendors won't even tell us how to use certain features in theo chips -oK > > because it is a competetive advantage that they fear will leak to theirGG > > competition, and so it only appears in the Windows implementations.d > H > That's true and not true.  The Xig commercial X11 server is very good.  L But A) not free, and B) not generally available on anything except Linux and Solaris.  H > We use it with 3Dlabs Wildcat 5100 cards on systems which dual boot to@ > Windows XP, and the graphics speed is very close on both OS's.E > Xig on Radeon 8500 is also comparable in speed to Radeon 8500 on XP  > (with ATI's drivers.)d >s  C I suppose milage will vary.  I know little about the Xig quality ordK performance, or what relationship they may have with 3DLabs or ATI.  3DLabstK in the past has been more than happy to work with vendors, and even provideb: their Windows code as example logic.  ATI is a little moreG close-to-the-chest with their cards (and I understand their issues with  controlling their IP).   > >eC > > Development time for the *quality* of code that the traditionaloE > > UNIX/Workstation customers want for 3D takes significant time andr8 > > resources - and we haven't found a way to shrink it. >cD > So don't.  Buy it from somebody with a larger market and lower per > unit costs and resell it.v  H Can't be bought for any reasonable cost at this point.  Will outsourcingK this cost less than the small handful of people we pay to do it today?  NotfL yet.  There isn't enough volume, and it's cheaper to do it ourselves at this point.   >  Spend the development timen> > on a PC<->Alpha interface or on the X11 client applications.5 > Add value to a PC rather than trying to replace it.  >nD > And that is the market these days - HP is trying to sell expensive+ > workstations, generally to _replace_ PCs.   G Dunno where you get that idea, at least in the VMS space.  We sell more H DS10's for example, than we sell the workstation version of it - in factJ "workstations" are a tiny fraction of our sales - but most servers tend toG sell with at least 2D graphics on them.  Our mainstream strategy is formL VMS-PC integration via standards like JAVA, Citrix, eXceed, etc.  We provideI a general 2D interface to allow X11 applications to run directly on *any*OL VMS system - server or "workstation" to allow those who want, or need direct8 bus graphics a way to do it.  But 2D graphics is "easy".  L We *also* provide OpenGL support for a smaller number of customers primarilyA involved in custom VMS solutions, of which this is a requirement.@  B We *also* support some 3rd party custom graphics, again for custom
 solutions.  K We do *not* have a strategy of trying to displace PC's on the desktop.  But J in fact one that supports the VMS "legacy" base, and custom solution base.   >  That's a very poor strategyG > because VMS machines cannot replace PCs in most instances and are notdL > remotely cost competitive with them.  But since the PCs are already there,? > sell a product that EXTENDS them and you've got a new market.lI > One where the argument "it can't do this (MS Word, whatever)" cannot be G > made against the sale.  Rather one where "it can ALSO do this" is the  > relevant selling point.  >   3 Dunno what makes you think we have such a strategy.   G I will consistantly tell people that if what you really want is lunatictL fringe graphics capabilities - then buy a PC.  We have no delusions that VMSI workstations will win in that market.  We do however recognize that thereeL are specialized niches where there is a large investment in VMS that we needI to continue to supply.  We also recognize that there is almost no support J for us dropping 2D graphics by the VMS customer base - and not with a $5000 embedded PC running Windows and an X11 emulator.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:29:54 GMTP" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGY Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream: was Re: AlphaStation ES47 is out, but will it suppor 0 Message-ID: <00A250F0.EE5107E4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <20030828084629.28ac6ae9.mathog@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: {...snip...}E >Pretty much everyone already has a PC sitting on their desk and theyD  / *NOT* on the desk of this pretty much everyone!m   --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:13:27 +0200,. From: "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de>1 Subject: Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.eB Message-ID: <aus-594C48.14132728082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>  ) In article <0YJB74HjSjYB@elias.decus.ch>,o+  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:h ...s? > telnet -8 can do the accented characters, but canot do ruboutf  9 telnet -8 ... works but rubout soen't work for me either.e  " Found this on the Open VMS Wizard:  '  help swapping DELETE and BACKSPACE   a   The Question is: Please help me!!> When we use xterminal sessions to telnet into our VAX systems,= the backspace key is virtually useless (moves to beginning oft> text on command line when pressed).  As a result, we're forced: to use the cursor keys for editing.  I've tried everything# within my (limited) knowledge base!1  0% Any help will be greatly appreciated.z  e Thanks,u Russ  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------   The Answer is :s  eF   xmodmap is the usual course of action to remap keys such as <delete>   and <backspace>.  36   Also see the Motif FAQ for information on XKeysymDB.   -- :B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 03 18:54:20 +0200) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 1 Subject: Re: Unicode client as Open VMS terminal.D) Message-ID: <ocT3qeYXzOAT@elias.decus.ch>e  s In article <aus-594C48.14132728082003@wrzx08.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de>, "Hans M. Aus" <aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de> writes:n+ > In article <0YJB74HjSjYB@elias.decus.ch>, - >  p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:- > ...-@ >> telnet -8 can do the accented characters, but canot do rubout > ; > telnet -8 ... works but rubout soen't work for me either.e > $ > Found this on the Open VMS Wizard: > ) >  help swapping DELETE and BACKSPACE   w >  > The Question is: > Please help me!!@ > When we use xterminal sessions to telnet into our VAX systems,? > the backspace key is virtually useless (moves to beginning ofl@ > text on command line when pressed).  As a result, we're forced< > to use the cursor keys for editing.  I've tried everything% > within my (limited) knowledge base!7 >  r' > Any help will be greatly appreciated.e >  u	 > Thanks,  > Russ > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >  > The Answer is :  >  vH >   xmodmap is the usual course of action to remap keys such as <delete> >   and <backspace>. >  g8 >   Also see the Motif FAQ for information on XKeysymDB. >   E But that applies to Motif, not Aqua. Now I have the reference, I plan- to give X11 a whirl.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:12:52 -0700m' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> + Subject: Re: Ups monitor to run on OpenVms.c8 Message-ID: <20030828081252.40a64f10.mathog@caltech.edu>   On 25 Aug 2003 11:01:41 -0700e% benitos@stcc.cc.tx.us (Benito) wrote:o  H > Does anyone know of a Ups monitoring software that will run on OpenVmsG > alpha?  I have Powerware ups that I would like to monitor.  I do havesB > the onlisafe software but it just does not work.  Thanks for any > feedback.   A Does the Powerware UPS display state and accept commands as logiceG levels on serial port lines (probably via a modified serial cable)?  If C so you should be able to use my tcontrol application to control it.eI tcontrol was originally designed for TrippLite UPS's, but a bit is a bit.e   Pick it up here:  ; ftp://saf.bio.caltech.edu/pub/software/openvms/tcontrol.zip    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:00:44 -0400 & From: "Island" <dbturner@islandco.com>" Subject: We need your DS10 Systems/ Message-ID: <vkrvce7ni39437@news.supernews.com>p  > Please call us urgently if you need to dispose of DS10 systems Any kind, almost any condition$ We will consider non-working systems   Thanks   David    --   David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationv 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622e Fax: 912 201 0402h Email: dbturner@hpaq.net http://www.hpaq.net5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:03:34 -0400.( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250, Message-ID: <3F4D9B36.6090705@tsoft-inc.com>   jlsue wrote:  L > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:19:59 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> > wrote: >  > * >>jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> writes: >> >>> >>>I suspect the difference might be that the customers would,F >>>ultimately, expect HP to generate patches/fixes for any issues thatC >>>crop on those 3rd-party systems.  I've seen similar expectationseF >>>with other 3rd-party hardware connected to current OpenVMS systems. >>>-E >>>Note, too, that if they were adding said systems into a VMSclusteraE >>>with (or even without) HP systems, this could get very tricky, and_ >>>very complicated to qualify.s >>>DD >>But why? They are all industry *STANDARD* remember? Isn't that why >>the whole mess is happening? >>? >>Or is itanic the standard you have when you are non-standard.s >> > M > So you really believe that a Dell IA64 system is EXACTLY like an HP system?aG > Is this true of the IA32 systems today?  I think not.  For 90% of the < > applications the differences probably won't be noticeable. > K > However, VMScluster systems tend to push the envelope on internal designsnK > of systems.  Systems not designed with this under consideration may work,wL > but there's no way to be sure.  So, is it worth the risk in your business' > environment? >   P You have a problem.  It's your customers.  Unfortunately, they are the few with O an attention span greater than that of a gnat.  Unfortunate for you.  It seems 5M that they remember the claims made by Compaq when they announced the move to mM IA-64 and the death of Alpha.  You see, they just couldn't imagine customers  P (actually, all they understood was sales, not customers) with an attention span $ such as that common among VMS users.  P All kinds of wild (and stupid) claims were made at that time.  I'm one of those P who remembers.  I'm still waiting on the $1000 VMS system that Michael Capellas $ reportedly promised to one customer.  K Now, I know that you're not stupid enough to have believed all those silly  M statements.  However, you're stuck with them.  Don't redicule customers when cG they remember all the reasons IA-64 would be so much better than Alpha.c   Dave   -- P4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 07:56:01 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32503 Message-ID: <oUpwhSo1MsPF@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  W In article <3F4D9B36.6090705@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:r > jlsue wrote: >    >> dN >> So you really believe that a Dell IA64 system is EXACTLY like an HP system?H >> Is this true of the IA32 systems today?  I think not.  For 90% of the= >> applications the differences probably won't be noticeable.M >> DL >> However, VMScluster systems tend to push the envelope on internal designsL >> of systems.  Systems not designed with this under consideration may work,M >> but there's no way to be sure.  So, is it worth the risk in your business'i >> environment? >>   > R > You have a problem.  It's your customers.  Unfortunately, they are the few with Q > an attention span greater than that of a gnat.  Unfortunate for you.  It seems lO > that they remember the claims made by Compaq when they announced the move to aO > IA-64 and the death of Alpha.  You see, they just couldn't imagine customers dR > (actually, all they understood was sales, not customers) with an attention span & > such as that common among VMS users. > R > All kinds of wild (and stupid) claims were made at that time.  I'm one of those R > who remembers.  I'm still waiting on the $1000 VMS system that Michael Capellas & > reportedly promised to one customer. > M > Now, I know that you're not stupid enough to have believed all those silly nO > statements.  However, you're stuck with them.  Don't redicule customers when nI > they remember all the reasons IA-64 would be so much better than Alpha.  >   @ 	I'm not too worried about reasonably priced IA64 boxes from HP.> 	What I am a bit concerned about is the NSK and VMS IA64 boxesC 	will cost more than W2K or .NET or whatever they will call Windowsn 	Enterprise in a few years.   = 	Dell didn't sell Alpha boxes.  Dell will sell and is sellingd? 	IA64 boxes.  HP has to price their IA64 servers within a notchi, 	of Dell's or risk losing business on price.  B 	I don't agree with jlsue's argument.  That was then, this is now.? 	W2K Enterprise scales to 32 or more CPUs and there are mission @ 	critical apps running on Windows by the way, Windows EnterpriseD 	has its own qualification program (for what it is worth).  Meaning:9 	IA64 Windows hardware must be robust (or reasonably so).n  B 	What it may come down to is savvy VMS endusers buying HP W2K IA64A 	servers and throwing away the licenses and sticking VMS on them n= 	(with legally transferred licenses of course) and save moneyd= 	on the hardware.  Why?  I can't imagine W2K hardware costing ? 	the SAME as hardware that runs VMS (Dell Effect, etc.)  I alsogB 	think they can't or won't do a firmware cripple job to keep those& 	HP W2K IA64 servers from running VMS.   				Robn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:39:27 -0400m" From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>) Subject: Re: XML Parser for VAX (OpenVMS)o- Message-ID: <bil487$uv0@library2.airnews.net>        Thanxs!o    = "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> wrote in messages2 news:ujbokvsemdv85pee1r8fpkqti20i86gdrm@4ax.com.... > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 02:40:07 GMT, Randy Park( > <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> wrote: >sC > >On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:42:35 -0400, "Hal Kuff" <kuff@tessco.com>c	 > >wrote:o > >a
 > >>Randy, > >> > >>J > >>    Would you be willing to post a zip file with the sample basic code > >>calling the c routines...? > >> > >> > > D > >Better yet, here it is, followed by my sample data.  It is just a? > >Quick and Dirty just to see if I could make it work.  It has 9 > >debugging stuff in it.  Look out for line wrap from mye > >newsreader. > >  >t > [snip] >s > >e8 > > FUNCTION LONG CHAR_DATA ( STRING USER_DATA BY REF, & > > STRING OUR_DATA BY REF, &r > > LONG OUR_LENGTH BY VALUE )# > > EXTERNAL STRING FUNCTION C_TEXTo > > PRINT "Entered CHAR_DATA "; 2 > > PRINT "Data = "; LEFT$( OUR_DATA, OUR_LENGTH ) > > END FUNCTION > >- >- > [snip] >eD > There is a problem compiling the above code on Vax, but not Alpha.C > Use the following instead as it works on Vax (untested on Alpha):2 >.6 > FUNCTION LONG CHAR_DATA ( STRING USER_DATA BY REF, & > STRING OUR_DATA BY REF, &b  > LONG OUR_LENGTH BY REF )  !mod! > EXTERNAL STRING FUNCTION C_TEXTf > DECLARE LONG TMP !newa > TMP = LOC( OUR_LENGTH ) !new > PRINT "Entered CHAR_DATA ";o/ > PRINT "Data = "; LEFT$( OUR_DATA, TMP )  !modo > END FUNCTION > E > Sorry, wasn't aware that you couldn't receive data BY VALUE on Vax.o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.476 ************************