1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 29 Aug 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 477       Contents:) ANN: Vipul's Razor patched to work on VMS ) ANN: Vipul's Razor patched to work on VMS  ANN:IUPOP3 & RADIUS  ANN:SMPP API under OpenVMS, Re: Fortran defered length character string?( Fortran defered length character string?, Re: Fortran defered length character string?# How can I get Media Robot dist kit? ' Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit? ' Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit? ' Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit? ( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750( Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750( RE: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/7509 Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP  Oracle roadmap for OpenVMS Re: Oracle roadmap for OpenVMS$ Re: Patching Ident field of an Image Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates  Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates   Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD  Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD' Require updated version of BLOCKING.MAR  SHOW SYSTEM question Re: SHOW SYSTEM question Re: SHOW SYSTEM question Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Re: Stop swimming upstream Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV" Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV" Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV Re: We need your DS10 Systems  Re: We need your DS10 Systems  Re: We need your DS10 Systems 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250 1 Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:34:06 +0200 5 From: Michael Lemke <ai26@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> 2 Subject: ANN: Vipul's Razor patched to work on VMS: Message-ID: <T85W51SMDIDROXSDBKGTRTORQJE32.3f4e835e@micha>  _ 8/27/03 00:29:34, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:    >Michael --  >  [...]  > C >> Actually, yes, I do while porting a Unix script (Vipul's Razor).  > Q >Cool!  Please let us know when you get it working.    As far as I know, the only P >heuristic antispam on VMS is the still-in-beta payware that Process Software isF >working on, and I'm very unlikely to ever get funding for that for my >fifty-or-so VMS mail users.   Winston,  5 I've got it working.  I just submitted a few patches. 	 Checkout  Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=797003&group_id=3978&atid=303978 Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=793933&group_id=3978&atid=103978 Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=642113&group_id=3978&atid=103978    And for Razor itself: L http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3978&release_id=176263J http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/razor/razor-agents-2.36.tar.gz?download   Enjoy, Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:37:33 +0200 5 From: Michael Lemke <ai26@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> 2 Subject: ANN: Vipul's Razor patched to work on VMS; Message-ID: <IKHC01UPOD083IE185HD1Z83WRVU62.3f4e842d@micha>   _ 8/27/03 00:29:34, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:    >Michael --  >  [...]  > C >> Actually, yes, I do while porting a Unix script (Vipul's Razor).  > Q >Cool!  Please let us know when you get it working.    As far as I know, the only P >heuristic antispam on VMS is the still-in-beta payware that Process Software isF >working on, and I'm very unlikely to ever get funding for that for my >fifty-or-so VMS mail users.   Winston,  5 I've got it working.  I just submitted a few patches. 	 Checkout  Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=797003&group_id=3978&atid=303978 Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=793933&group_id=3978&atid=103978 Y http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=642113&group_id=3978&atid=103978    And for Razor itself: L http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3978&release_id=176263J http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/razor/razor-agents-2.36.tar.gz?download   Enjoy, Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:18:25 +0400 : From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU> Subject: ANN:IUPOP3 & RADIUS3 Message-ID: <15762967DED1B30861370E042D378B3F@nntp>    Hi All! ; 	There is a version of the IUPOP3 server which performs an  ' authentication of users against RADIUS:   6 	http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru/~laishev/work/pop3rad/   --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+<        RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com9          vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS B     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:16:31 +0400 : From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU># Subject: ANN:SMPP API under OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <69A8BB8516B421A7900BD34860D2ED03@nntp>    Hi All! H 	Some time ago I wrote a small interface library to interoperating with D Short Message Service Center with SMPP (Short-Message-Peer-to-Peer)  protocol v3.4.  " 	Who is interested take a look to:  4 	http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru/~laishev/delta/smpp/     --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+<        RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com9          vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS B     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:56:47 -0700* From: Richard Maine <nospam@see.signature>5 Subject: Re: Fortran defered length character string? 1 Message-ID: <uelltd4ku8.fsf@altair.dfrc.nasa.gov>   = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:    >    Compaq Fortran V7.3  ? Not sure what that is, though from the newsgroups, I suspect it ; must be a version number for their VMS compiler.  Anyway...   E >    Is there any way to get an allocatable character with a deferred F >    length instead of a fixed length character of deferred dimension?  E That's a feature of the Fortran 2003 draft.  I don't know whether any E current compilers do that as an f95 extension or not.  It goes beyond E what is in the TR on allocatable stuff (which is limitted to allowing # allocatable arrays in more places).   ? You might be able to make do with the ISO_VARYING_STRING module ? (part 2 of the Fortran standard), though it has some pretty big ; caveats attached in practice (like performance "issues" and = memory leaks).  Those "issues" are particularly of concern if @ you build the module from the published source instead of having a vendor implementation of it.  G Someone recently posted here information about a partial implementation B of the varying string module, avoiding memory leaks.  I forget theB details but recall that it sounded intriguing.  It wasn't too long ago.   --  K Richard Maine                       |  Good judgment comes from experience; J email: my first.last at org.domain  |  experience comes from bad judgment.: org: nasa, domain: gov              |        -- Mark Twain   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 14:39:53 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Fortran defered length character string? 3 Message-ID: <PwjVk1nFNxi6@eisner.encompasserve.org>       Compaq Fortran V7.3  C    Is there any way to get an allocatable character with a deferred D    length instead of a fixed length character of deferred dimension?  D    A deferred size array is just not what I'm looking for, I want a B    single string who's length I determine at run time.  In generalB    I don't have a reasonable value for a maximum length so I don't3    want to track the used size of a larger string.    @    I know I can simulate this this by creating an extra layer of@    subroutines and passing the length as an argument, but that's7    pretty painfull when one has lots of such strings.      ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:18:27 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> 5 Subject: Re: Fortran defered length character string? < Message-ID: <howard-35C36D.22182728082003@enews.newsguy.com>  3 In article <PwjVk1nFNxi6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, =  koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   E >    Is there any way to get an allocatable character with a deferred F >    length instead of a fixed length character of deferred dimension?  A Check out the STR$ run-time library (in the RTL manuals) and the  I appropriate dynamic string descriptor (in the Calling Standard manual).   8 This is a set of features of VMS, not of Fortran per se.   --  # Today, on Paper-view: Pulp Fiction!    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 11:21:13 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) , Subject: How can I get Media Robot dist kit?- Message-ID: <RS8KARuxgv7B@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   D   I just picked up a TZ887 on Ebay. If I understand things correctly> I need the Media Robot Utility software to control the library1 functions ( load cartridge, etc ) on VMS (7.3-1).   A   The good news is that I have the system on CSLG, which includes @ a license for Media Robot. The bad news is that I can't find theD software anywhere on CONDIST or the VMS distribution kit. I've found= a part number for the license alone (QM-50TAA-AA) and one for B the license and media (QB-50TAA-SA), but I can't find one for just
 the media.  ?   Given that I already have a valid license for the software is = there any way to just get the media/docs? I don't really care > if I get physical media, a pointer to a download site would be fine.   F   ps. I believe I can also use ABS to control the library ( which CSLGH also gives me a license for ) but this seems like overkill for my needs.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:27:32 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> 0 Subject: Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit?7 Message-ID: <oQr3b.15873$7G2.2410@twister.nyroc.rr.com>    Try:  & http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/mru/   -Jeff     > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message' news:RS8KARuxgv7B@malvm7.mala.bc.ca....  > F >   I just picked up a TZ887 on Ebay. If I understand things correctly@ > I need the Media Robot Utility software to control the library3 > functions ( load cartridge, etc ) on VMS (7.3-1).  > C >   The good news is that I have the system on CSLG, which includes B > a license for Media Robot. The bad news is that I can't find theF > software anywhere on CONDIST or the VMS distribution kit. I've found? > a part number for the license alone (QM-50TAA-AA) and one for D > the license and media (QB-50TAA-SA), but I can't find one for just > the media. > A >   Given that I already have a valid license for the software is ? > there any way to just get the media/docs? I don't really care @ > if I get physical media, a pointer to a download site would be > fine.  > H >   ps. I believe I can also use ABS to control the library ( which CSLGJ > also gives me a license for ) but this seems like overkill for my needs. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:48:19 GMT , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit?2 Message-ID: <T7s3b.3582$Ou6.1049@news.cpqcorp.net>  I or http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/storage/mrupage.html which points to  the support site.     : "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> wrote in message1 news:oQr3b.15873$7G2.2410@twister.nyroc.rr.com...  > Try: > ( > http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/mru/ >  > -Jeff  >  > @ > "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message) > news:RS8KARuxgv7B@malvm7.mala.bc.ca....  > > H > >   I just picked up a TZ887 on Ebay. If I understand things correctlyB > > I need the Media Robot Utility software to control the library5 > > functions ( load cartridge, etc ) on VMS (7.3-1).  > > E > >   The good news is that I have the system on CSLG, which includes D > > a license for Media Robot. The bad news is that I can't find theH > > software anywhere on CONDIST or the VMS distribution kit. I've foundA > > a part number for the license alone (QM-50TAA-AA) and one for F > > the license and media (QB-50TAA-SA), but I can't find one for just > > the media. > > C > >   Given that I already have a valid license for the software is A > > there any way to just get the media/docs? I don't really care B > > if I get physical media, a pointer to a download site would be	 > > fine.  > > J > >   ps. I believe I can also use ABS to control the library ( which CSLGL > > also gives me a license for ) but this seems like overkill for my needs. > >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:03:13 -0500 ( From: "Jenny Butler" <jbutler@utmem.edu>0 Subject: Re: How can I get Media Robot dist kit?3 Message-ID: <001601c36d9f$69981cb0$1806c084@JennyB>   # Malcolm,  Look at this web site...    6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/storage/mrupage.html                   Jenny  ----- Original Message -----  3 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum>  To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> ' Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:21 PM , Subject: How can I get Media Robot dist kit?     > F >   I just picked up a TZ887 on Ebay. If I understand things correctly@ > I need the Media Robot Utility software to control the library3 > functions ( load cartridge, etc ) on VMS (7.3-1).  > C >   The good news is that I have the system on CSLG, which includes B > a license for Media Robot. The bad news is that I can't find theF > software anywhere on CONDIST or the VMS distribution kit. I've found? > a part number for the license alone (QM-50TAA-AA) and one for D > the license and media (QB-50TAA-SA), but I can't find one for just > the media. > A >   Given that I already have a valid license for the software is ? > there any way to just get the media/docs? I don't really care @ > if I get physical media, a pointer to a download site would be > fine.  > H >   ps. I believe I can also use ABS to control the library ( which CSLGJ > also gives me a license for ) but this seems like overkill for my needs. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:43:20 GMT 1 From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.donotspamme.com> 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 1 Message-ID: <Yar3b.3562$Bb6.249@news.cpqcorp.net>    Chris Scheers wrote: > Bob Blunt wrote: > J >>None of the 11/75x systems I ran was bootable without the TU58, from theF >>rackmount 11/751s we used, built and integrated at Intergraph to theG >>pure DEC versions I had in secure environments.  Like the 11/780, you I >>had to load the "microcode" (or WCS, etc) from the cartridge to get the G >>system to a point where it would toss control to BOOT58 and load VMB.  >  > B > I used to manage two 11/750s that could boot directly from UDA50; > attached RA60s.  I think it was boot switch position "D".  > H > I have a vague recollection that we needed some sort of ROM upgrade to0 > make this work.  Perhaps we had ROM microcode? > I > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- & > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > E > Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com   >   Fax: 817-237-3074   G Yes, I led a sheltered life, and we didn't have the luxury of using the G ROM to speed up booting.  In one case because the system was soooo old  I that the ROMs never supported the UDA50 and in others because we had our  , own disk controllers that weren't supported.   bob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:55:51 GMT 1 From: Bob Blunt <robert.blunt@hp.donotspamme.com> 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 1 Message-ID: <Hmr3b.3567$0g6.291@news.cpqcorp.net>    msell wrote: >  > Hello everyone,  >  > I > I was wondering if anyone on this newsgroup has a suggestion on how to  / > connect a dual-TU58 tape drive to a QBus VAX?  > I > I found a document describing how to configure an M7940 (which I have)  J > for operation with a TU58, and my QBus VAX (MicroVAX II) recognizes the E > drives (the interface, actually) - so the card at least appears to   > partially operate. > F > However - when I try to "mount" a tape, there is no activity on the J > interface (M7940) as tested with a logic probe. This board came from an I > LSI-11/03 in a VAX 11/780, and I believe this board to be operational.  K > The point of using the logic probe is to make a cable to attach the dual   > TU58 to the M7940. > D > The goal is to create a set of boot tapes for my 11/750. I have a J > working VAXCluster with 4000's, and two MicroVAXes, and I'd like to get  > this 11/750 booting. > > > Has anyone here been successful in using a M7940 with TU58s? > ( > Am I barking up the wrong tree?    : ) >  > Thanks for the insight!  >  >  >     - Matt >  >  >  >  >  >   F Matt, I think I found the same information you had and presume you've H got the jumper setup for the M7940 recommended for the TU58.  I haven't F found anything with the pinout for the connector on the DLV11, but it @ seems configurable for either EIA or current-loop.  I think the I recommended cable for EIA was a BC05C.  Do you still have the cable from  / when it was installed in your spare 11/78x LSI?   I I also found jumper information for the TU58.  Naturally, they'd have to  C match for your configuration to work.  As Duncan said, I think I'd  G recommend nothing higher than 9600baud.  I did get pinout info for the  H TU58 and the recommended cable was BC20Y-25 (also can't find pinout for  this cable).   bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:22:02 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 3 Message-ID: <3F4E484A.59E2206B@applied-synergy.com>    Paul Sture wrote:  > g > In article <3F4D425C.66422A19@applied-synergy.com>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  > > Bob Blunt wrote: > >>M > >> None of the 11/75x systems I ran was bootable without the TU58, from the I > >> rackmount 11/751s we used, built and integrated at Intergraph to the J > >> pure DEC versions I had in secure environments.  Like the 11/780, youL > >> had to load the "microcode" (or WCS, etc) from the cartridge to get theJ > >> system to a point where it would toss control to BOOT58 and load VMB. > > D > > I used to manage two 11/750s that could boot directly from UDA50= > > attached RA60s.  I think it was boot switch position "D".  > > J > > I have a vague recollection that we needed some sort of ROM upgrade to2 > > make this work.  Perhaps we had ROM microcode? > >  > F > All the OEM 11/750s I used had what I recall as being a piece of ROMF > to do that. The only 11/750s I came across (not many) which requiredG > TU58s to boot were genuine 100% DEC ones. I have no idea whether that $ > ROM was a DEC or third party item.   These systems were 100% DEC.  F They were later model 750s.  They had the memory controller upgrade inF them so they could potentially go to a whopping 14MB memory!  (I think we had 5MB in them.)  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:13:41 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 1 Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0308281113.1990dca0@posting.google.com>   Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<psYRkBOQRpoh@elias.decus.ch>...F > All the OEM 11/750s I used had what I recall as being a piece of ROMF > to do that. The only 11/750s I came across (not many) which requiredG > TU58s to boot were genuine 100% DEC ones. I have no idea whether that $ > ROM was a DEC or third party item.  8 DEC provided ROMs for booting 750s from various devices.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:24:03 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 1 Subject: RE: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEMAHNAA.tom@kednos.com>   < OEM models were called 751,  I had one. took up about 30" ofF rack space on was so heavy that if you slid it out (came with two setsG of slides, teflon coated) it could tip  a tall rack.  Never had to use   the tu58 to boot   >-----Original Message----- 9 >From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com] ) >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:14 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2 >Subject: Re: M7940/DHV-11, TU58, and a VAX 11/750 >  > 6 >p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message & >news:<psYRkBOQRpoh@elias.decus.ch>...G >> All the OEM 11/750s I used had what I recall as being a piece of ROM G >> to do that. The only 11/750s I came across (not many) which required H >> TU58s to boot were genuine 100% DEC ones. I have no idea whether that% >> ROM was a DEC or third party item.  > 9 >DEC provided ROMs for booting 750s from various devices.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.511 / Virus Database: 308 - Release Date: 8/18/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:34:01 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: OpenVMS Itanium system access for developers via DSPP3 Message-ID: <eFNFkufZn7lt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <N5o3b.3523$oA5.3211@news.cpqcorp.net>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@hp.com> writes: 	 > Bob K.,  > F > I'm sorry that the website isn't clear about internet access to the J > systems.  When we receive a request, we set up an Alpha system with the K > cross tools and an Itanium system.  The partner gets exclusive access to  G > them, privs., and you may use FTP and TELNET after sending us the IP  D > address that you will be coming from.  Both the AMTCs in Reading, J > England and Littleton, Mass. support Internet access as well as on-site 	 > visits.       OK, sounds good.   K > I'm also working on a project to set up an OpenVMS Itanium system on the  J > HP test drive.  The access to that system will be shared among all test K > drive users and there will be no privileged users allowed.  Watch for an  J > announcement on the portal, http://www.hp.com/dspp/ and anywhere else I  > can get it posted.      That sounds good, too.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:53:34 +0000 (UTC) . From: "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com># Subject: Oracle roadmap for OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <bilq4e$m03$1@hercules.btinternet.com>  L Does anyone know what Oracle's roadmap for OpenVMS is, or where I could find it on the Oracle website?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:12:06 GMT # From: "georgie" <me@mycomputer.com> ' Subject: Re: Oracle roadmap for OpenVMS A Message-ID: <Geu3b.8238$3E.5232@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>   9 "Insomnee" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com> wrote in message , news:bilq4e$m03$1@hercules.btinternet.com...I > Does anyone know what Oracle's roadmap for OpenVMS is, or where I could  find > it on the Oracle website?    I found it on HP's site:+ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/oracle/    g    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:15:31 +0100 6 From: Chris Townley <news@townleyc.nospam.demon.co.uk>- Subject: Re: Patching Ident field of an Image 8 Message-ID: <k76tkvsj0egoicltm2c445qqrn8rq583m9@4ax.com>  C On 25 Aug 2003 04:39:13 -0700, Anders.Wallin@om.com (Anders Wallin)  wrote:   >Hello,  > A >I would like to stamp the "Ident" field of an image with a value F >reflecting a released system version. This information is however not@ >available during linking so I can't place it in an option file. > 8 >Does anyone have a utility that can do this job for me? > % >I'm using Alpha, VMS 7.2 and higher.  >   3 Seen various conflicting posts (not) answering this   E We stamp a version at (executable) release, currently derived from an  ingres control database,  B Dont have our release source to hand, but ISTR  it uses a standardB interface to set te ident - I thought it was available on the link@ command line, but just checked help and couldnt see it. Might be available only through the API.   > I will follow up in the morning when I will have access to the relevant source.   --  
 Chris Townley ) chris at townleyc dot demon dot co dot uk    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 18:05:35 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bilg9f$2uba$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  . In article <3F314E27.3010108@Flying-Disk.com>,, Alan Frisbie  <Abuse@Flying-Disk.com> wrote:@ >It is worst than that.   There are places in Altair BASIC whereA >they saved space by jumping into the second byte of a three-byte @ >instruction!   Yes, it's true.   I'm not kidding.   In the late; >1970's, a group of us disassembled Altair BASIC (easy) and ? >proceeded to reverse-engineer and comment it (hard).   It took = >me a while to understand that section of code, after which I  >felt, shall we say, "unclean".    Cue "The Story of Mel".    --  H Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 18:10:22 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bilgie$2ufh$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  / In article <bh8cmr$irt$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>, / David Evans <dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: @ >  You lose.  ;-)  Well, not really.  I regularly had files thatH >wouldn't fit in memory, so my program had to read in a piece, deal with, >it, and then write that piece back to disk.   TECO SOS   H It's not so hard to write an editor for files larger than memory, if youI have a fast random-access disk to toss lines onto. vi works that way, and 0 could edit megabyte files on a PDP-11 (64K RAM).  G It's when you may only have sequential I/O that you have to work a page I at a time and manage your editing sessions in passes so you're not always H going back to the beginning of the file (which involved writing the fileJ from the source tape to the destination tape and then switching the roles.   --  H Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 18:11:22 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bilgka$2uhp$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  G In article <bhafg0$h2t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: B >That's what sane people would have done :-).  I get the distinct ( >impression that MS-DOS didn't know how.  7 EDLIN should be able to do that. It's a TECO lookalike.    --  H Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 19:16:43 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates9 Message-ID: <bilker$7bp6h$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>   . In article <3F314E27.3010108@flying-disk.com>,- 	Alan Frisbie <Abuse@Flying-Disk.com> writes:  > A > It is worst than that.   There are places in Altair BASIC where B > they saved space by jumping into the second byte of a three-byteA > instruction!   Yes, it's true.   I'm not kidding.   In the late < > 1970's, a group of us disassembled Altair BASIC (easy) and@ > proceeded to reverse-engineer and comment it (hard).   It took> > me a while to understand that section of code, after which I  > felt, shall we say, "unclean".   A It was more common than you might think.  Being an early disciple C of Pascal I had been using Tiny Pascal on the TRS-80 Model I.  When C the Model III came out and had disks and a serial port without that @ hokey Expansion Interface I snapped one up.  Because it had moreE ROM than the Model I none of the old software would work.  I figured, A "No problem, a little dis-assembly, fix up a few pointers and re- @ assemble for the higher start address."  Boy was I wrong.  ThereC wre places where they jumped into the middle of the address portion A of an instruction because the second byte just happened to be the ? same as the opcode they needed to execute when entering at that ? point.  Obviously, after relocation and re-assembly this was no @ longer the case.  Luckily a better (disk based) Pascal came out,? but I still spent a lot of time trying to get it to work on the > Model III just for the fun of it.  I was never successful. :-(   Now that was real computing.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 18:43:07 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bilifr$2vqo$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  G In article <bgtadc$60n$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: @ >That isn't efficiency; it's brain damage.  I can see setting itB >up as a table and then indexing through it but this is documented >just by having the table.    ( What if you don't have room for a table?  A In my closet I have the source code for a Z-80-based chat system. A User passwords were things like A04B6/7M and couldn't be changed. A That's because there wasn't room for any tables, so your password E was 4 hex digits that were (IIRC) hashed with your username, followed ? by the next 4 bytes found at the resulting address in the code. ? Every time the system was upgraded all the users got mailed out  new passwords.  = >Bloat is caused, IMO, by programmers who think that all code ) >has to resident even if it's never used.   A This system also recycled the memory used by the drivers and such B OS as it had, for buffers, so there wasn't anywhere BUT memory for? all code, and in any case secondary storage was too far away... ? the program was supporting 8 modems by having a tight loop that > spent 1/30th of a second on each modem reading and writing one? character to or from the UART on the custom 8-port serial board @ and doing *everything* needed to process anything that character) needed to do before going on to the next.   ? No interrupts. Too much overhead. Just a tight loop waiting for A the "ready" bit on the UART, write (if anything pending), read, a B couple of jumps through a state table, check a password or perform a command, on to the next...  * Programming on a bitty box is *different*.   --  H Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 19:01:24 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <bilji4$30r6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  / In article <bh07im$t14$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>, / David Evans <dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> wrote: J >  If the code above was in RAM you could easily poke $8002 and change the	 >default.   & Wouldn't that break the jump to $8001?   --  H Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 19:00:03 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates2 Message-ID: <biljfj$30pg$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  G In article <bgvrdi$nke$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: D >Bletch!  OK, since we have to live with the architecture, that codeG >should have a comment about $8001 entry to point out to the maintainer ) >that it's a multiple entry line of code.?  H It probably did, but the source is almost certainly not available... all  you have to go on is the binary.   -- kH Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	 29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 14:25:37 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates3 Message-ID: <OELsfNQA$18T@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  ] In article <bilgka$2uhp$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:aI > In article <bhafg0$h2t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:1C >>That's what sane people would have done :-).  I get the distinct s) >>impression that MS-DOS didn't know how.  > 9 > EDLIN should be able to do that. It's a TECO lookalike.   A    I've used TECO, and EDLIN is no TECO.  (I've used EDLIN, too).    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:31:02 +0000 (UTC)t. From: dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates/ Message-ID: <bill9m$22u$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>e  2 In article <bilji4$30r6$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,) Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com> wrote:F0 >In article <bh07im$t14$1@tabloid.uwaterloo.ca>,0 >David Evans <dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:K >>  If the code above was in RAM you could easily poke $8002 and change ther
 >>default. >w' >Wouldn't that break the jump to $8001?  >e  J   No; the code at $8001 would change from LDA #$00 to LDA #$05 or whateverI have you.  The useless BIT at $8000 would change from BIT $00A9 to $05A9.k   -- @M David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.caSM Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/4M University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer M Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manualc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:48:40 GMTr2 From: "Glen Herrmannsfeldt" <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>$ Subject: Re: PDP-11 OS Release Dates/ Message-ID: <s0t3b.285512$o%2.131574@sccrnsc02>m  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message-3 news:bilker$7bp6h$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de....0 > In article <3F314E27.3010108@flying-disk.com>,. > Alan Frisbie <Abuse@Flying-Disk.com> writes: > >dC > > It is worst than that.   There are places in Altair BASIC wheredD > > they saved space by jumping into the second byte of a three-byteC > > instruction!   Yes, it's true.   I'm not kidding.   In the lated> > > 1970's, a group of us disassembled Altair BASIC (easy) andB > > proceeded to reverse-engineer and comment it (hard).   It took@ > > me a while to understand that section of code, after which I" > > felt, shall we say, "unclean".   (snip)  I There was a long discussion in one of these groups about that.  The one IeH remember in 6809 code, and it is probably the same in others, is using aH compare instruction with a 16 bit immediate operand, where the immediateL operand is actually an instruction.   It takes two bytes to do a short jump,G but only a one byte opcode to ignore the next two bytes of instruction.i  H I used to have a table driven disassembler that had enough logic to findH instructions.  It would start at the entry point and, in the first pass,K follow the instruction flow, storing the addresses from branch instructionsvL on a stack.  When it found an unconditional branch or return, it would startK again from an address on the stack.  It would keep track of which bytes hadoB been checked, and would quickly notice branches into the middle of
 instructions.&   -- glen    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:59:44 +02003( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>) Subject: Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORDu9 Message-ID: <bilqib$apnp3$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>u  . <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in bericht* news:00A250B5.1DF839D3@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > In article <bikivf$a0v6g$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:- > >Is the Philips 2600 supported by CDRECORD?s > L > I should have also asked, are you experiencing a problem that precipitated > your question? >DH Err, no, it was a question of a boolean nature actually and the expectedL answer was a simple yes or no. The reason I asked the question is that I wasH given a Philips CDD2600 (it's CDD not CDR) and before connecting it to aE VAXstation 4000-90A running VMS 7.3 and figuring out how to use it, I+6 thought let's ask c.o.v whether it stands a chance :-)  J In the mean time I learned that the CDD2600 is on line but all attempts to- get to the medium result in an error message:TG "no disk/invalid medium"; and this with CDRECORD 1.8. CDRECORD seems to6J recognize the device and that more or less answers my initial question. ItL is not possible to write, read or blank CD-RW disks at any speed. So my best7 guess up to now is that the 2600 is useless. Any hints?r   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:25:52 GMTr" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG) Subject: Re: Philips CDR2600 and CDRECORD 0 Message-ID: <00A25122.A74E0419@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <bilqib$apnp3$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes: > / ><VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> schreef in berichtv+ >news:00A250B5.1DF839D3@SendSpamHere.ORG... I >> In article <bikivf$a0v6g$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems"D! ><hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> writes:-. >> >Is the Philips 2600 supported by CDRECORD? >>M >> I should have also asked, are you experiencing a problem that precipitatedr >> your question?s >>I >Err, no, it was a question of a boolean nature actually and the expectedsM >answer was a simple yes or no. The reason I asked the question is that I washI >given a Philips CDD2600 (it's CDD not CDR) and before connecting it to afF >VAXstation 4000-90A running VMS 7.3 and figuring out how to use it, I7 >thought let's ask c.o.v whether it stands a chance :-)  >aK >In the mean time I learned that the CDD2600 is on line but all attempts tot. >get to the medium result in an error message:H >"no disk/invalid medium"; and this with CDRECORD 1.8. CDRECORD seems toK >recognize the device and that more or less answers my initial question. It M >is not possible to write, read or blank CD-RW disks at any speed. So my bestT8 >guess up to now is that the 2600 is useless. Any hints? >  >Hanse >  >    DK or GK driver???   --N VAXman- A bored certified VMS kernel mode hacker!     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:31:59 GMTe" From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>0 Subject: Require updated version of BLOCKING.MAR/ Message-ID: <3F4E66BD.DB7D5441@telusplanet.net>l  8 The Macro program BLOCKING.MAR was made available around? 1995.  Under the VAX environment, this routine would, if an RMSeB record was locked, identify the process locking the record and theC node the process was running on.  Now, under Alpha it still gives a H message to confirm that the record is locked, but then the routine ends.  4 No information is displayed identifying the process.> Would anyone have an updated version of the program to display) the process information on an Alpha node.i     -- Lees   lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:18:07 +0200 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: SHOW SYSTEM questione; Message-ID: <01L00EK24BPEAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    If I enter n  !    $ SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER/PROC=XXXr  C where XXX is some wildcard which results in 2 or 3 processes being  F displayed, then repeat the command quickly, how is it possible that a G process shows up which wasn't in the previous display but has MORE CPU iG time charged to it than the difference in elapsed time between the two  	 displays?h   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 03 13:48:30 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.como! Subject: Re: SHOW SYSTEM questionu( Message-ID: <5xwWscsDIKxX@cpva.saic.com>  ; In article <01L00EK24BPEAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,s<  Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:
 > If I enter s > # >    $ SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER/PROC=XXX) > E > where XXX is some wildcard which results in 2 or 3 processes being fH > displayed, then repeat the command quickly, how is it possible that a I > process shows up which wasn't in the previous display but has MORE CPU  I > time charged to it than the difference in elapsed time between the two   > displays?  >   C Maybe not the answer that you're looking for, but, one way would beuC that an already present process had it's name changed to match XXX.1   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:07:11 +0000 (UTC)n, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)! Subject: Re: SHOW SYSTEM question . Message-ID: <bilqtv$j5f$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes in article <01L00EK24BPEAMSOR1@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> dated Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:18:07 +0200 (MET): >If I enter  >C" >   $ SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER/PROC=XXX >iD >where XXX is some wildcard which results in 2 or 3 processes being G >displayed, then repeat the command quickly, how is it possible that a eH >process shows up which wasn't in the previous display but has MORE CPU H >time charged to it than the difference in elapsed time between the two 
 >displays?  1 This is one of those brain-teaser puzzles, right?h  E If it's marginally more CPU time, it could be caused by timing of the + process accounting vs. that of the $getjpi.e  J If it's a signifantly more, it means the process changed its name to matchL your wildcard.  Decnet server processes change their names to NET_xxxx while0 they're busy and SERVER_xxxx when they are idle.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgc> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:27:48 GMTp9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>n# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreams2 Message-ID: <UIs3b.3587$6z6.3290@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 "Ken Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote in messagec# news:3F4E500D.E4980303@intel.com...i > Phillip Helbig wrote:t > >bF > > > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include: > > > > ' > > > >    o  we want a proper keyboard  > > >eC > > > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.eE > > > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two piecesnE > > > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HPn > > > still sells one! > >cA > > So I can use the LK401 layout on this newfangled thing AND onhC > > older machines?  Or are we talking a proprietary keyboard here?  > >  :-) >sB > Not the LK401 itself, but the LK401 layout: what's wrong with an? > LK461???   All models of Alphas since the PWS and AS4100 daysu8 > use a PC-compatible (terminology?) keyboard and mouse. > F > The other piece in this puzzle is that the LK461 works transparentlyC > under Windows 2000 and Windows XP.  I just unplugged the standard 5 > PC keyboard and plugged in the LK461 and it worked!w   Not really.  It sort-of works.  K The keyboard responds as if it were a PS2 keyboard.  The difference is thatcJ there are moved and extra keys.  The extra keys may or may not be visible,% and the engravings will be confusing.   L The LK450 had both PS2 and LK400 engravings, and could switch between PC and	 LK modes.w   >  The standardo= > Digital/Compaq/HP Logitech 3-button mouse works as well (ins@ > 2-button mode without intervention, or in 3-button mode with a4 > Logitech driver downloadable from their web site). >y  K Another brilliant design.  There is no command to query the mouse type, and D no bits in the packet to do anything additional or useful (includingH determining which byte is the first one).  So the user must *explicitly*E load a driver for something other than the "standard" 2 button mouse.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:55:09 -0700', From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com># Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamh) Message-ID: <3F4E500D.E4980303@intel.com>n   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > M > > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include:i > > > % > > >    o  we want a proper keyboards > >oA > > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.oC > > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two pieceseC > > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HP  > > still sells one! > ? > So I can use the LK401 layout on this newfangled thing AND on-A > older machines?  Or are we talking a proprietary keyboard here?" >  :-)  @ Not the LK401 itself, but the LK401 layout: what's wrong with an= LK461???   All models of Alphas since the PWS and AS4100 dayso6 use a PC-compatible (terminology?) keyboard and mouse.  D The other piece in this puzzle is that the LK461 works transparentlyA under Windows 2000 and Windows XP.  I just unplugged the standard A PC keyboard and plugged in the LK461 and it worked!  The standardP; Digital/Compaq/HP Logitech 3-button mouse works as well (in > 2-button mode without intervention, or in 3-button mode with a2 Logitech driver downloadable from their web site).  ? There are application details: Exceed and KEA 2000 make certain)A keymapping assumptions based on the expectation of a PC keyboard.iB A small bit of effort has allowed me to make a faithful mapping toA the keys I expect to use on VMS within DECterms or the KEA telnett	 terminal.d  B Windows applications have no problems.  However, if I want to do a@ Windows screen-capture, I have to figure out where the PrtSc key went (F17 I think). :-)i  B N.B.: I'm not praising bg-ware, but my current position forces me  to use Windows.e  @ My bigger problem is that I want to use this same combination of= keyboard/mouse/monitor at home with either the Windows laptope> or my PWS600au (thanks David T!).   I believe I've found a KVM@ switch that will handle the different keyboard modes between the< two systems, but I haven't found the time yet to get the PWS? completely configured and booted with Decwindows running...willt* report out when I have more information...   	-KenV --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldr" D1C Automation VMS System Support ) kenneth[dt]h[dt]fairfield[ta]intel[dt]coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:58:36 -0700a, From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com># Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamh) Message-ID: <3F4E5EEC.8AB8D9D7@intel.com>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > ; > "Ken Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote in messaget% > news:3F4E500D.E4980303@intel.com...  [...]tH > > The other piece in this puzzle is that the LK461 works transparentlyE > > under Windows 2000 and Windows XP.  I just unplugged the standardl7 > > PC keyboard and plugged in the LK461 and it worked!e >   > Not really.  It sort-of works.  ? Should I have said, "Works transparently for a _casual_ Windows-? user"?  Probably in much the same way that a Windows user doingo= only casual work on VMS wouldn't think twice about having allm9 the numeric keypad keys and F6-F20 working as expected...a  M > The keyboard responds as if it were a PS2 keyboard.  The difference is that L > there are moved and extra keys.  The extra keys may or may not be visible,' > and the engravings will be confusing.k  = Now that you mention it, I had lost the "`" and "~" keys. But-= thanks to your repsonse, I went and found them. :-) I do news + reading/posting from WXP using NS 4.8, btw.j  :N > The LK450 had both PS2 and LK400 engravings, and could switch between PC and > LK modes.   ' Sounds like a nice device, I guess...     C From my earliest experiences with VMS, I never had access to a real C VT terminal nor any sort of LK201 or LK401 keyboard, so I've alwaysoC had to do some sort of mental (or otherwise) keyboard mapping.  The B fact that some subset of keycap engravings doesn't bother me.  But@ that's just me, eh?  [Ever try to couple programming the keys on> an Ambassador XL with VMS-recognizable escape sequences, with D creating keymaps in EVE saved to a private TPU sections file, to mapA those programmed keys to EVE commands with a user friendly layoutnB that matches the similar functions on an IBM mainframe using XEDITD from the same terminal? You learn a lot about all of these...and you@ learn quickly to use position, not keycap engraving, for a given
 function.]  / 	-Kenh --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield " D1C Automation VMS System Support ) kenneth[dt]h[dt]fairfield[ta]intel[dt]comM   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 15:39:36 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreamn3 Message-ID: <9cvzPLm8xfQd@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  n In article <UIs3b.3587$6z6.3290@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > ; > "Ken Fairfield" <My.Full.Name@intel.com> wrote in messagee% > news:3F4E500D.E4980303@intel.com...e   >>  The standard> >> Digital/Compaq/HP Logitech 3-button mouse works as well (inA >> 2-button mode without intervention, or in 3-button mode with am5 >> Logitech driver downloadable from their web site).  >> > M > Another brilliant design.  There is no command to query the mouse type, andrF > no bits in the packet to do anything additional or useful (includingJ > determining which byte is the first one).  So the user must *explicitly*G > load a driver for something other than the "standard" 2 button mouse.   # Is this fixed in the USB standard ?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:42:25 -07003' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> # Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstream<8 Message-ID: <20030828164225.34be236f.mathog@caltech.edu>    On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:13:11 GMT: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote:  F > > Think of the add on box as a headless DS10 with an extra interfaceD > > card.  The same box could be controlled from another alpha, Mac,H > > or Linux box.  You just couldn't use it without some other interface > > providing machine. > >o > J > I still fail to see your point.  Even if you could create something likeM > this, that say plugged into a PCI slot and had a direct memory window for adM > communication channel.  You *still* end up running on a X11 emulator on the"N > PC.  Which is *fine* for simple text and menus.  So what about the customersF > who need the performance of direct bus graphics for either 2D or 3D?  O Let's assume that there's a device that plugs in PCI - PCI (or whatever) which hK superintelligently maps one swath of memory on the Alpha into an equivalentgE swath on the PC.  Writes on Alpha side show up as changes on PC side.tE Probably another chunk of memory is mapped in the opposite direction.eD Obviously this isn't the only way to pass information back and forthE between two systems.  Come to think of it, didn't DEC used to have a m; technology like this for hooking together two alphaservers?-  A Anyway, at that point if performance is an issue you could forget2R about writing an X11 application and write a native Windows application.  The dataM shows up as fast as physically possible on the PC and the PC shoves it to therO screen over AGP as fast as that will go, using the full blown DirectX or OpenGl1< hardware acceleration provided by the drivers for the card.   J Most of the time the graphics stream is much more data than the underlyingL data which is being displayed.  So in this case it probably makes more senseJ to shove the underlying data across the interface rather than the graphics data.e  K Which doesn't mean that the regular X11 applications couldn't work also for  less demanding applications.   > K > That is, it might be fine for the mainstream - but it won't be fine for a-K > measureable amount of the customer base who we will *still* need to catere > to - or lose.     K I expect that with a native windows graphics front end it should outperformLJ the currently available VMS options by a mile.   I'll give you an example.J Let's say you're running a protein viewer (3D, spinning, shaded, real timeA frame switched stereo) while the VMS machine energy minimizes thecF protein structure in the background. The graphics overhead is huge butG the underlying data is only about 100,000 bytes per energy minimizationsG cycle.  (Not that anybody uses VMS for applications like this anymore.)   0 >Will this PC dongle grow the VMS customer base?   Bit more than a dongle I'd say!e  9 The answer depends entirely upon HP's ability to identifytG markets and sell into them.  No reason the VMS "dongles" can't cluster.o? Maybe market it as an ultrareliable database system which hides D transparently behind the PCs?  For instance, in a radiology setting,' real time CAT scans, ERs, and the like?    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:02:23 GMTi% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>e# Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreami8 Message-ID: <Puy3b.10144$Pd1.3368@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  / So, use aVMS keyboard for all of your PC stuff.1  H I have a console switch for accessing all of my PC's at home.  And guess/ what.  I have an LK-461-A2 keyboard on it.  :-)   G My biggest problem is that I have to change the defaults on my terminalSE emulator to use the real keyboard.  It defaults to a laptop keyboard.l  B Fred Kleinsorge <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:HKq3b.3555$Sm6.2928@news.cpqcorp.net... >r6 > "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message4 > news:20030828092211.46102a6e.mathog@caltech.edu..., > > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:58:06 +0200 (MET)> > > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote: > >sD > > > ulterior cheeks of one B.G.).  Arguments against your proposal include: > > > % > > >    o  we want a proper keyboardm > >rA > > So buy one.  There is no shortage of PC compatible keyboards.pC > > There may not be many with the numeric keypad "+" in two pieces C > > as on a VT100 though, but if you look I bet you'll find that HPm > > still sells one! > >  >vL > Sigh.  We can blame IBM and Microsoft for the piss poor KB situation.  YouF > can't do something "simple" to have an extended keyboard, you need a customD > KB driver.  And worse yet, there is no simple way to auto-detect a keyboard! > type and load the right driver.- >-J > Eons ago, we sold a LK450 - and there was a Windows driver for it.  Long
 > since gone.o >tJ > What's missing on a PC keyboard is more than just a few keys.  It's also the$L > engravings, and the positioning.  Going between keyboards kills me (I have9 > to do it all the time) and I'm not even a great typist.  > L > We are looking at a this area (in relation to a think client, and terminal/ > emulator) to see what we can do with a LK463.l >o > > >oB > > >    o  we don't want to have to buy a PC just to use an ALPHA > >n; > > You're already buying between 1/3 and 1/2 of an old ones= > > when you buy a graphics card for your Alpha from HP.  Betn: > > your keyboard and mouse are also PC compatible.  So is; > > the disk, the floppy, and the CD drive.  You're usuallysA > > comfortably (and expensively) Alpha proprietary when it comes-2 > > to power supply, motherboard, CPU, and memory. > > F > > Think of the add on box as a headless DS10 with an extra interfaceD > > card.  The same box could be controlled from another alpha, Mac,H > > or Linux box.  You just couldn't use it without some other interface > > providing machine. > >t > J > I still fail to see your point.  Even if you could create something likeK > this, that say plugged into a PCI slot and had a direct memory window fort aaI > communication channel.  You *still* end up running on a X11 emulator onn thehD > PC.  Which is *fine* for simple text and menus.  So what about the	 customershF > who need the performance of direct bus graphics for either 2D or 3D? >pK > That is, it might be fine for the mainstream - but it won't be fine for alK > measureable amount of the customer base who we will *still* need to catera@ > to - or lose.  Will this PC dongle grow the VMS customer base? >k >o >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:42:22 -0500t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: Stop swimming upstreama' Message-ID: <3F4EBD8E.14790E7D@fsi.net>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > N > What's missing on a PC keyboard is more than just a few keys.  It's also theL > engravings, and the positioning.  Going between keyboards kills me (I have9 > to do it all the time) and I'm not even a great typist.c  H I used to change some of the default keymappings in Reflection/2 and /4,G until I discovered the madness behind their method. Now, I only add theeF "PrintScreen" functionality to the <Print Screen> key. Before, I triedE to make the top-row keys match their LK2xx/LK4xx positions. I do find,D the ALT+KP+ combination a bit annoying in EDT, however (produces theE KP-Comma sequence). I just need to remember things like F10 being thetG EXIT key, F15 being the HELP key, F16 being the DO key, etc. Otherwise, F the keycaps match the functions somewhat, other than <Hone> and <End>,G of course, which become <Find> and <Select>, respectively, and NumLock,n KP/, KP* and KP-.i   -- y David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:31:17 GMTh+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>c' Subject: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IVv2 Message-ID: <BB73ECE4.B136%JCam90502@jcameron.com>   I need a little help please.  B I'm Running VMS 7.3 on an ES20 and I am currently running DECNet+.  K I'm moving this system to another network, and I need to Abandon my currentOH Decnet+ configuration and Revert back to Phase IV with all new settings.  J I have a backup of my system disk for when it needs to go back. And I haveL already taken care of the SCSSYSTEMID to reflect the new DecNet node number.  I What do I need to do to wipe out DecNet+ and go to Phase IV. Do I need toy reinstall VMS?   Thank you in advance.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:59:07 GMTn> From: Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com>+ Subject: Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IV 8 Message-ID: <vzx3b.29$qf2.28@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote:    > I need a little help please. > D > I'm Running VMS 7.3 on an ES20 and I am currently running DECNet+. > M > I'm moving this system to another network, and I need to Abandon my current J > Decnet+ configuration and Revert back to Phase IV with all new settings. > L > I have a backup of my system disk for when it needs to go back. And I haveN > already taken care of the SCSSYSTEMID to reflect the new DecNet node number. > K > What do I need to do to wipe out DecNet+ and go to Phase IV. Do I need toE > reinstall VMS? >  > Thank you in advance.C >   G You need to load the Install CD, remove DECNET+ and reinstall Phase IV.u   OR  G go to your routing .ncl script in sys$startup  and set the primary NIC -( port to send/receive Phase IV addresses.B (Phase IV addressing TRUE)  If you have no open channels, you can E disable routing on that port, set PhaseIV true and re-enable without .G rebooting. (I have had to do that a lot lately on our "backup" network A -- used only for backups).  H Then you will always have both if necessary.  Remember, DECNET Phase IV  is NOT routable.     Michael Austin   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:37:29 GMTu% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> + Subject: Re: Switch Frm DECNet+ to Phase IVI8 Message-ID: <t7y3b.10136$Pd1.6686@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  I Michael Austin <maustin@no-more-spam.firstdbasource.com> wrote in messagew2 news:vzx3b.29$qf2.28@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com... > Jeff Cameron wrote:i >   > > I need a little help please. > >sF > > I'm Running VMS 7.3 on an ES20 and I am currently running DECNet+. > > G > > I'm moving this system to another network, and I need to Abandon myn current L > > Decnet+ configuration and Revert back to Phase IV with all new settings. > > I > > I have a backup of my system disk for when it needs to go back. And Ip haveH > > already taken care of the SCSSYSTEMID to reflect the new DecNet node number.l > >wJ > > What do I need to do to wipe out DecNet+ and go to Phase IV. Do I need to > > reinstall VMS? > >h > > Thank you in advance.  > >p >eI > You need to load the Install CD, remove DECNET+ and reinstall Phase IV.l >t > OR >eH > go to your routing .ncl script in sys$startup  and set the primary NIC* > port to send/receive Phase IV addresses.C > (Phase IV addressing TRUE)  If you have no open channels, you cantF > disable routing on that port, set PhaseIV true and re-enable withoutH > rebooting. (I have had to do that a lot lately on our "backup" network > -- used only for backups). > I > Then you will always have both if necessary.  Remember, DECNET Phase IVc > is NOT routable. >|  I You can have "both" running at the same time if you register both TP4 and F NSP in DECNET_REGISTER.  You have 2 address towers.  This defines both addresses for you.    
 Mike Naime   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:11:12 -0700c, From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com>& Subject: Re: We need your DS10 Systems) Message-ID: <3F4E61E0.8F2712CC@intel.com>a  
 Island wrote:n > @ > Please call us urgently if you need to dispose of DS10 systems  > Any kind, almost any condition& > We will consider non-working systems  C Now _this_ is the kind of post I like to see.  David's got a clientk> who needs a boat load of DS10's.  Perhaps not running VMS, but? running Alphas nevertheless.  And this after David posted a feweB months ago asking whether "we" thought it was worth staying in the Alpha business. :-)g   	-Keni  < Disclaimer: Yes, I'm doing "spin" here, but positive spin is;             just as valid as negative spin.  One is no morer;             "accurate" or "realistic" than the other in thei3             absense of more specifics or hindsight.o --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfielda" D1C Automation VMS System Support ) kenneth[dt]h[dt]fairfield[ta]intel[dt]com    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Aug 2003 22:29:03 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)i& Subject: Re: We need your DS10 Systems: Message-ID: <bilvnf$dt5$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  ) In message <3F4E61E0.8F2712CC@intel.com>,a(   Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> >Island wrote: >>A >> Please call us urgently if you need to dispose of DS10 systems ! >> Any kind, almost any condition ' >> We will consider non-working systemsg > D >Now _this_ is the kind of post I like to see.  David's got a client! >who needs a boat load of DS10's.d  D Another way to look at is that HP end-of-life'd the DS10 without itsP replacement (DS15?) being in production yet, so you are getting an influx of newL DS10 customers in the used market (those who aren't forswearing Alpha and HPL altogether).  The best we can get from our distributor is that the DS15 will, be available for purchase in October, maybe.    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:sL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.C   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:07:01 -0400t' From: David Turner <david@hpaq-dot-net>c& Subject: Re: We need your DS10 Systems/ Message-ID: <vkt9pltfpf1h2e@news.supernews.com>    Actually    It's not one particular customer  H It's a conglomeration of about 30 customers all looking for DS10 systems      I Seriously though - if ANYONE has ANY DS10 systems XP900 XP1000 or VS10 s o we want to hear from you  ) With or without licenses  PLEASE  ! !!!!!r       Thanks   Davida     David Jones wrote:+ > In message <3F4E61E0.8F2712CC@intel.com>, * >   Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> >  >>Island wrote:s >>A >>>Please call us urgently if you need to dispose of DS10 systemse! >>>Any kind, almost any conditionv' >>>We will consider non-working systems  >>E >>Now _this_ is the kind of post I like to see.  David's got a clienty" >>who needs a boat load of DS10's. >  > F > Another way to look at is that HP end-of-life'd the DS10 without itsR > replacement (DS15?) being in production yet, so you are getting an influx of newN > DS10 customers in the used market (those who aren't forswearing Alpha and HPN > altogether).  The best we can get from our distributor is that the DS15 will. > be available for purchase in October, maybe. >  > > > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929/ > Ohio State University        |      Internet:SN > 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu< > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu > 3 > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 13:04:47 -07001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)t: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 3250= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0308281204.3dda4220@posting.google.com><  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<oUpwhSo1MsPF@eisner.encompasserve.org>...B > 	I'm not too worried about reasonably priced IA64 boxes from HP.@ > 	What I am a bit concerned about is the NSK and VMS IA64 boxesE > 	will cost more than W2K or .NET or whatever they will call Windows  > 	Enterprise in a few years.r  B It would not surprise me if the NSK boxes cost a bit more, as theyE will presumably include extra redundancy, error-checking, etc. in thev	 hardware.a  = VMS will run on the ordinary Integrity servers, workstations,r8 Superdomes, etc., the same as Linux, Windows, and HP-UX.  D > 	What it may come down to is savvy VMS endusers buying HP W2K IA64C > 	servers and throwing away the licenses and sticking VMS on them -? > 	(with legally transferred licenses of course) and save money  > 	on the hardware.   C Users won't be forced to go through those contortions.  And why payD' Bill Gates for a license you won't use?   - > 	Why?  I can't imagine W2K hardware costing 9 > 	the SAME as hardware that runs VMS (Dell Effect, etc.).  - Prepare for your imagination to be stretched.m  C All the plans I've seen have the hardware with a single part numbersD and price -- exactly the same -- regardless of which O/S will run on it.e  C (I do expect that the different O/S software choices will differ insE price, as customers view them as having different costs, capabilitiesu and value.)d   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Aug 2003 15:33:16 -0500+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e: Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS I64 run on a Dell PowerEdge 32503 Message-ID: <8juKCbS3G3vn@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  q In article <cf15391e.0308281204.3dda4220@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:sh > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<oUpwhSo1MsPF@eisner.encompasserve.org>...   > . >> 	Why?  I can't imagine W2K hardware costing: >> 	the SAME as hardware that runs VMS (Dell Effect, etc.) > / > Prepare for your imagination to be stretched.s > E > All the plans I've seen have the hardware with a single part numbereF > and price -- exactly the same -- regardless of which O/S will run on > it.d >   < 	That is a very exciting.  Takes away a large FUD factor and1 	is good for the VMS customer (cheaper hardware).r  E > (I do expect that the different O/S software choices will differ innG > price, as customers view them as having different costs, capabilitieso
 > and value.)   6 	That would be normal and expected.  Few can subsidize? 	their OS development with a fat revenue stream like MS Office.j   				Robi   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.477 ************************