1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 02 Dec 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 667       Contents:: Re: ANN: New freeware: Search help libraries for keywords.: RE: ANN: New freeware: Search help libraries for keywords. Re: Another lost VMS sale  Re: Another lost VMS sale : Brooks Automation ports to HP OpenVMS on Integrity serversP Dell and HP Rated #1 in Buying Behavior and Customer Satisfaction Survey, with H- DTSESSION creates asubprocess every 3 minutes 1 Re: DTSESSION creates asubprocess every 3 minutes % Error trying to analyse process dump. ) Re: Error trying to analyse process dump. ) Re: Error trying to analyse process dump. ) Re: Error trying to analyse process dump. ) Re: Error trying to analyse process dump. ) Re: Error trying to analyse process dump. ? How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ? C Re: How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ? ; How do you Modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream?? , HP Gains Share on Supercomputing TOP500 list0 RE: HP Gains Share on Supercomputing TOP500 list Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprise* Re: LBR$ library routines and DCX encoding* Re: LBR$ library routines and DCX encoding4 Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 RE: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!$ Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233( Re: Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233( Re: Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233- Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp - Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp - Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp  openvms 7.3 tcpip problem  Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive  Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive ) OpenVMS, SchlumbergerSema and ATOS Origin - Re: OpenVMS, SchlumbergerSema and ATOS Origin E OT: Opteron vs. Xeon - could the same hold true for Opteron vs. IA64? & Re: Pathworks to Win2K Migration hints1 Re: products deleted from the layered-product CDs 	 Re: Qio ? < Re: QUEUE Manager startup in a CLUSTER after a server reboot< Re: QUEUE Manager startup in a CLUSTER after a server reboot Re: RBF file from WNT to VMS Re: RBF file from WNT to VMS Re: Rdb on ODS-5 disk  Re: Rdb on ODS-5 disk , Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files, Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files, Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files, Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files, Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files, Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files$ Re: Routable Protocol for Clustering9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday  RE: SWXCR configuration  tcpip nfs mount problem  Re: tcpip nfs mount problem  Re: VMS on PDP-10? Re: VMS on PDP-10? Re: VMS on PDP-10? Re: VMS on PDP-10?& XFC 7.3 and Process States (HIBO/LEFO)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 02 Dec 2003 12:31:15 GMT) From: rankin@pactechdata.com (Pat Rankin) C Subject: Re: ANN: New freeware: Search help libraries for keywords. . Message-ID: <2DEC200304311479@pactechdata.com>  K In article <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B3E1@lespaul.process.com>,\ )  Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> writes... 5 > Several months ago, someone on the c.o.v. newsgroup 5 > asked if VMS had a utility to search help libraries 5 > for a keyword.  I didn't know of any such utilities - > at the time, nor did the group mention one.   A      I don't recall seeing that.  Are you aware of Kevin Ashley's E LIBSEARCH utility?  I'm fairly sure that it will be on some old DECUS F SIG tapes and in the either the InfoVAX archives or the vmsnet.sourcesI archives (presuming any of those are still accessible).  I don't remember F when the last update was released; the sources I've got are from 1989.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu    From the start of aaareadme.txt:  K "LIBSEARCH is a program which does just about everything the SEARCH command J "does, but for libraries. LIBSEARCH has a number of uses particular to its( "abilities to search libraries, such as: " B "Finding which HELP subject contains info on the keyword you want;1 "Finding which macro defines the symbol you want; I "Finding which Include module from FORSYSDEF.TLB contains the definitions 
 "you want; "Poking around in general.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:06:30 -0500$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>C Subject: RE: ANN: New freeware: Search help libraries for keywords. J Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B3E2@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: rankin@pactechdata.com [mailto:rankin@pactechdata.com]* > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:31 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > Subject: Re: ANN: New freeware: Search help libraries for keywords.  >  > 
 > In article  B > <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B3E1@lespaul.process.com>,\+ >  Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> writes... 7 > > Several months ago, someone on the c.o.v. newsgroup 7 > > asked if VMS had a utility to search help libraries 7 > > for a keyword.  I didn't know of any such utilities / > > at the time, nor did the group mention one.  > $ >      I don't recall seeing that.    B If I recall, he was looking for the equivalient of the UNIX man -k  ! > Are you aware of Kevin Ashley's  > LIBSEARCH utility?     (Sheepishly) Uh.... no.   F I checked the freeware archive before I started and somehow missed it.< I asked a couple other guys, who I won't name, who also said! they were not familiar with one.    ( I see LIBSEARCH is there as of today. 8)    Well, now there's another one.    E That's too bad, I thought I was using those evenings to do something  F unique.  Next time, I'll look harder before reaching for the keyboard.   Thanks for the information.    -Mike Duffy    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 07:50:16 +0100  From: "B.Eckstein" <eck@ivu.de> " Subject: Re: Another lost VMS sale- Message-ID: <bqhcn8$52c$1@swifty.westend.com>   , John Smith schrub im Jahre 01.12.2003 23:25:   > Sold any VMS systems lately?  @ What if she will say "Just sold the whole bunch of vms-business"   --  G B.Eckstein, eck@ivu.de         Cheap, Fast, Good - pick any two of them 9 Die FAQ zu de.comp.hardware.netzwerke: http://how.to/dchn G Mozilla-Tips: http://mozilla-anleitung.de/ http://www.holgermetzger.de/   D "Auch wenn ich die Funktionsweise dieser Konsole nicht kenne, glaube# ich nicht, dass sie rauchen sollte"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:03:07 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Another lost VMS sale) Message-ID: <3FCC470D.A950CAE8@istop.com>    "B.Eckstein" wrote:   > > Sold any VMS systems lately? > B > What if she will say "Just sold the whole bunch of vms-business"  N Selling VMS to a company willing to make VMS its primary product and motivatedH to compete head to head against uinix and Windows, then I'd say "great".  I However, I feel that for Carly and friends, their plans are to streamline L product lines down to HP-UX, Tandem and wintel with a bit of linux sprinkled! in because it is the fad-du-jour.   K They don't see Tandem as critical path to their business, but its is a nice : trophy to have and it doesn't compete against anyone else.  N To them, they really would prefer to steer their customers to HP-UX. And thinkL about it, it is logical: HP-UX has a greater catalogue of software products,J it is a larger installed base, it is "Unix", and it is a measurable metricK against Sun (Unix sales, Unix market share). VMS is an obscure product with H little software available for it and it is never measured against othersK because nobody else has a VMS equivalent. (although prior to the 1990s, VMS 8 was competing agianst Unix for both desktop and server).   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 10:08:30 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) C Subject: Brooks Automation ports to HP OpenVMS on Integrity servers = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312021008.4c68ef1d@posting.google.com>   C OpenVMS: Brooks Automation ports to HP OpenVMS on Integrity servers  -- by Marc Courchesne   ; At their recent Worldwide Automation Symposium 2003, Brooks E Automation's PROMIS MES (Manufacturing Execution System) software was A demonstrated on an HP rx2600 Integrity server running the OpenVMS : operating system. In addition, Brooks' PROMIS software was@ demonstrated on an HP AlphaServer system running OpenVMS. "TheseE demonstrations not only show our commitment to protect our customers' = long-term investments in Brooks and HP OpenVMS based software ; solutions, but they also excite our new prospects about the E opportunity to have one of the most reliable MES solutions running on C the latest server technology at the lowest cost of ownership," says A Joe Bellini, senior vice president, System Software Group, Brooks D Automation Inc. "The PROMIS port validates our re-compile, re-link,C and run' message to partners and customers," says Mark Gorham, vice A president, HP OpenVMS Division. "Our relationship with Brooks has C definitely been strengthened by this project." Brooks Automation is D the third of many independent software vendors (ISVs) on the HP Fast@ Track Program to port their applications to OpenVMS on Integrity> servers. Meanwhile, OpenVMS v 8.1 Evaluation release for early? adopters is on schedule and will be available in December 2003.    For more information, visit M http://www.hp.com/products1/evolution/alpha_retaintrust/openvms/boot0703.html    9 For additional information about Brooks Automation, visit  http://www.brooks.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 10:55:57 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) Y Subject: Dell and HP Rated #1 in Buying Behavior and Customer Satisfaction Survey, with H = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312021055.403bbb55@posting.google.com>   C ISS: Dell and HP share No. 1 ranking according to 3Q03 Corporate IT - Buying Behavior & Customer Satisfaction Study   C A buying behavior and customer satisfaction study reveals that Dell D and HP share the No. 1 ranking position again at a marginal distanceF of just 0.84 percent and narrowing. Dell's loyalty rating has declined@ 3 percent offset by an increase by the ProLiant server by over 2F percent. At a distance comparable to that of the most recent reporting; period, IBM takes up a No. 2 ranking position; its weighted D satisfaction index is at a distance of nearly 3 percent from that of HP.   + http://www.tbri.com/News/pgViewPR.asp?Id=80    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:45:59 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com6 Subject: DTSESSION creates asubprocess every 3 minutesQ Message-ID: <OFC95FD972.C7B95537-ON85256DF0.005B7451-85256DF0.005C6641@metso.com>   H Why is my Console DTSESSION creating and ending a subprocess every three minutes? What is it doing/trying to do?   From Accounting:   $ accounting/owner=21400250   F      Date / Time      Type     Subtype     Username      ID     Source StatusP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [snip]>  2-DEC-2003 11:27:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B2EF 00000001>  2-DEC-2003 11:30:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       214594FB 00000001>  2-DEC-2003 11:33:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B2FE 00000001>  2-DEC-2003 11:36:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B10C 00000001   $ show user /full system7       OpenVMS User Processes at  2-DEC-2003 11:38:23.17 7     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 4   2  Username  Node   Process Name    PID     Terminal(  SYSTEM    NODEA  DTSESSION     21400250B  SYSTEM    NODEA  DTWM          2141DE75  (subprocess of 21400250)B  SYSTEM    NODEA  SYSTEM_4      2145A30E  (subprocess of 21400250)0  SYSTEM    NODEA  _FTA33:       21441B87  FTA33:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:33:42 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG: Subject: Re: DTSESSION creates asubprocess every 3 minutes0 Message-ID: <00A29C59.03252059@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <OFC95FD972.C7B95537-ON85256DF0.005B7451-85256DF0.005C6641@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > I >Why is my Console DTSESSION creating and ending a subprocess every three 	 >minutes?  >What is it doing/trying to do?  >  >From Accounting:  >  >$ accounting/owner=21400250 > G >     Date / Time      Type     Subtype     Username      ID     Source  >Status Q >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------  >[snip] ? > 2-DEC-2003 11:27:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B2EF 	 >00000001 ? > 2-DEC-2003 11:30:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       214594FB 	 >00000001 ? > 2-DEC-2003 11:33:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B2FE 	 >00000001 ? > 2-DEC-2003 11:36:03 PROCESS SUBPROCESS  SYSTEM       2145B10C 	 >00000001  >  >$ show user /full system 8 >      OpenVMS User Processes at  2-DEC-2003 11:38:23.178 >    Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 4 > 3 > Username  Node   Process Name    PID     Terminal ) > SYSTEM    NODEA  DTSESSION     21400250 C > SYSTEM    NODEA  DTWM          2141DE75  (subprocess of 21400250) C > SYSTEM    NODEA  SYSTEM_4      2145A30E  (subprocess of 21400250) 1 > SYSTEM    NODEA  _FTA33:       21441B87  FTA33:     D Open the Style Manager and click on the Screen icon.  Check the timeB setting for the "Time for Background".  If you have only one back-E ground selected make the time period as L-O-N-G as possible.  I found 2 this problem myself when CDE was first introduced. --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:56:33 +0000  From: nowhere@home.com. Subject: Error trying to analyse process dump.8 Message-ID: <lp9psvk7kded4o00mmlr3pfegbu2kgjivf@4ax.com>   Hi,   7 I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command:    $ analyse/proc dbw.dmp  ' --- but all I get is the error message:   $ CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER': -CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables  D Does anyone know what is causing this and what can be done about it?  	 TIA, Mark    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:14:53 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: Error trying to analyse process dump.0 Message-ID: <00A29C45.9E781630@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Q In article <lp9psvk7kded4o00mmlr3pfegbu2kgjivf@4ax.com>, nowhere@home.com writes:  >Hi, > 8 >I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command: >  >$ analyse/proc dbw.dmp  > ( >--- but all I get is the error message: > % >CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER' ; >-CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables  > E >Does anyone know what is causing this and what can be done about it?  > 
 >TIA, Mark >     - Perhaps it's the British spelling of ANALYZE?    --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:11:02 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>2 Subject: Re: Error trying to analyse process dump.8 Message-ID: <7qhpsv8r5qqdb6hb1hqp3ol0fmjc7e3h54@4ax.com>  ; On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:56:33 +0000, nowhere@home.com wrote:    >Hi, > 8 >I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command: >  >$ analyse/proc dbw.dmp  > ( >--- but all I get is the error message: > % >CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER' ; >-CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables  > E >Does anyone know what is causing this and what can be done about it?   N Try SHOW SYMBOL ANALYSE [sic] and SHOW LOGICAL ANALIMDMP to see if a symbol or- logical name refers to an unexpected program. I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:14:42 +0100 " From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>2 Subject: Re: Error trying to analyse process dump.4 Message-ID: <3fccbaa1$0$27052$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   nowhere@home.com wrote:    > Hi,  > 9 > I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command:  >  > $ analyse/proc dbw.dmp > ) > --- but all I get is the error message:  > & > CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER'< > -CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables   VAX? Alpha?  Which version of VMS? 3 What did you do since the last time it worked fine?    D. --  @     Read the latest VAX/VMS to Itanium Migration News  | mirrors?   www.openvms.org/dmorandi/vaxvms2itanium_200312en.pdf   en USA A www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200312en.pdf   en Europe   9                 Discover the FutureVAX: www.futurevax.com   J     didier morandi  ~ sarl au capital de 8 000 euros ~  Revendeur agr HPL   Expertise en environnement DIGITAL ~ Formation ~ Programmation ~ MigrationJ     Offshore ~ 5 av. A. Durand 31700 Blagnac France. Tl: 33(0)5 6131 6287G       SIRET 448 694 851 00016 RCS Toulouse http://www.didiermorandi.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:42:08 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> 2 Subject: Re: Error trying to analyse process dump.8 Message-ID: <1rfpsvs35kugi9u1nlfbnqgs9fe1q8noa6@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:14:53 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   R >In article <lp9psvk7kded4o00mmlr3pfegbu2kgjivf@4ax.com>, nowhere@home.com writes: >>Hi,  >>9 >>I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command:  >> >>$ analyse/proc dbw.dmp >>) >>--- but all I get is the error message:  >>& >>CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER'< >>-CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables >>F >>Does anyone know what is causing this and what can be done about it? >> >>TIA, Mark  >> >  > . >Perhaps it's the British spelling of ANALYZE?  G Ha ha.  Nope, it's bust as a bust thing for me too.  Alpha 7.3-1.  VERB J shows no sign of SERVER and the only valid qualifiers for the anal/process syntax don't match HELP.  H However, that syntax runs DEBUGSHR, and I see two logicals in the systemK table for that.  One super, one exec (fx: sound of blood boiling).  Getting D rid of the DEBUGSHR_V72X.EXE version gets it working properly again.  B The confusion seems to be coming from sys$startup:debug$startup orI debug$startup__v72x, both of which check for the existence of _v72x.exe -   perhaps we should rename this...   --  2 Drive no faster than your guardian angel can fly.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:22:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: Error trying to analyse process dump.0 Message-ID: <00A29C57.78461EBE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <1rfpsvs35kugi9u1nlfbnqgs9fe1q8noa6@4ax.com>, John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:D >On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:14:53 GMT, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > S >>In article <lp9psvk7kded4o00mmlr3pfegbu2kgjivf@4ax.com>, nowhere@home.com writes:  >>>Hi, >>> : >>>I am trying to analyse a process dump with the command: >>>  >>>$ analyse/proc dbw.dmp  >>> * >>>--- but all I get is the error message: >>> ' >>>CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SERVER' = >>>-CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tables  >>> G >>>Does anyone know what is causing this and what can be done about it?  >>>  >>>TIA, Mark >>>  >> >>/ >>Perhaps it's the British spelling of ANALYZE?  > H >Ha ha.  Nope, it's bust as a bust thing for me too.  Alpha 7.3-1.  VERBK >shows no sign of SERVER and the only valid qualifiers for the anal/process  >syntax don't match HELP.   J There's no SERVER anywhere in ANALYZE.CLD that I can see and VERB confirms$ that on a running V7.3-1 system too.  H I assumed that there must be some system specific definition for ANALYSE that is causing the problem.      I >However, that syntax runs DEBUGSHR, and I see two logicals in the system L >table for that.  One super, one exec (fx: sound of blood boiling).  GettingE >rid of the DEBUGSHR_V72X.EXE version gets it working properly again.  > C >The confusion seems to be coming from sys$startup:debug$startup or J >debug$startup__v72x, both of which check for the existence of _v72x.exe -! >perhaps we should rename this...    ?????   2 These don't appear on my V7.3-1 system anywhere...   --  L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:46:17 -00002 From: "Andy Baber" <andy.baber@uk.thalesgroup.com>H Subject: How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ?% Message-ID: <bqifml$bnu$1@rdel.co.uk>   ? How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ?    Andy   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 18:29:30 GMT 9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> L Subject: Re: How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ?/ Message-ID: <3FCCD8B9.F25F4C10@eps.zko.dec.com>   ) Please explain what 'ofstream I/O' means? ' Where and how does it and RMS interact? 2 What attriubutes would you liek to change and why?H What problem are you trying to solve? Errors? Performance? Presentation?	 Elegance?    You checked out SET FILE/ATTR ?    Regards, Hein.    Andy Baber wrote:   A > How do you modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream I/O ?  >  > Andy   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 08:42:42 -0800 0 From: andy.baber@uk.thalesgroup.com (Andy Baber)D Subject: How do you Modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream??= Message-ID: <13810b89.0312020842.489c21a6@posting.google.com>   9 How do you Modify RMS file attributes when using ofstream        Any ideas anyone??   Thanks   Andy   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 10:38:05 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 5 Subject: HP Gains Share on Supercomputing TOP500 list = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312021038.697049c8@posting.google.com>   9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/031117a.html   1 HP powers more supercomputers than any other firm   > Representing nearly one-third of the posted sites, HP has more@ installations on the TOP500 list than any other vendor. With itsF powerful HP Integrity, Superdome and AlphaServer systems, HP increasedB its share on this exclusive list from its June 2003 showing of 159C entries to 165 entries in the November list. HP also secured two of C the top five spots - No. 2 Los Alamos National Laboratory and No. 5 & Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.  E "HP Superdome servers represent nearly 25 percent of the TOP500 list, ? which underscores HP's leadership in high performance technical D computing," said Winston Prather, vice president and general managerC of the High Performance Technical Computing Division, HP. "The list @ also reflects the growing momentum of Itanium-based HP IntegrityB servers, which deliver top performance through innovation built on standards."   E Supercomputers based on the Intel IA-32 and Itanium 2 architectures E made substantial gains on the list, securing a total of 189 spots, an D increase from 119 in June. Among these were 33 HP systems, includingF seven HP Integrity Superdome clusters and the HP rx2600 server clusterB installed at the Department of Energy's Pacific Northwest NationalB Laboratory, the most powerful Itanium 2-based system in the world.  D "The unique architecture and balance of our HP supercomputer enables@ us to address large-scale computational, biological and chemicalF sciences with the best time-to-solution of any system we benchmarked,"B said Scott Studham, manager of High-Performance Computing Systems,F PNNL. "HP delivered a first-rate system with unprecedented storage, anE interconnect that allows processors to communicate in less than three @ microseconds, and Intel's next-generation Itanium 2 processors."  A HP Superdome systems equipped with PA-RISC and Itanium processors E accounted for 121 of the company's entries and HP AlphaServer systems F represented 18 sites, including the most powerful system in the UnitedC States - the AlphaServer-based ASCI Q system at Los Alamos National  Laboratory.   @ The TOP500 ranking of supercomputers is released twice a year byC researchers at the Universities of Tennessee and Mannheim, Germany, B and at NERSC Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. The list ranks> supercomputers worldwide based on the Linpack N*N Benchmark, aD yardstick of performance that is a reflection of processor speed and scalability.  : ----------------------------------------------------------  F (1) The complete listing of TOP500 Supercomputer sites is available at http://www.top500.org    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:30:49 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 9 Subject: RE: HP Gains Share on Supercomputing TOP500 list 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEENIJAA.tom@kednos.com>   ( OK, I'll bite, where is VMS in all this?   >-----Original Message----- 9 >From: Keith Parris [mailto:keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com] * >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:38 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >Subject: HP Gains Share on Supercomputing TOP500 list >  > : >http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/031117a.html > 2 >HP powers more supercomputers than any other firm > ? >Representing nearly one-third of the posted sites, HP has more A >installations on the TOP500 list than any other vendor. With its G >powerful HP Integrity, Superdome and AlphaServer systems, HP increased C >its share on this exclusive list from its June 2003 showing of 159 D >entries to 165 entries in the November list. HP also secured two ofD >the top five spots - No. 2 Los Alamos National Laboratory and No. 5' >Pacific Northwest National Laboratory.  > F >"HP Superdome servers represent nearly 25 percent of the TOP500 list,@ >which underscores HP's leadership in high performance technicalE >computing," said Winston Prather, vice president and general manager D >of the High Performance Technical Computing Division, HP. "The listA >also reflects the growing momentum of Itanium-based HP Integrity C >servers, which deliver top performance through innovation built on  >standards." > F >Supercomputers based on the Intel IA-32 and Itanium 2 architecturesF >made substantial gains on the list, securing a total of 189 spots, anE >increase from 119 in June. Among these were 33 HP systems, including G >seven HP Integrity Superdome clusters and the HP rx2600 server cluster C >installed at the Department of Energy's Pacific Northwest National C >Laboratory, the most powerful Itanium 2-based system in the world.  > E >"The unique architecture and balance of our HP supercomputer enables A >us to address large-scale computational, biological and chemical G >sciences with the best time-to-solution of any system we benchmarked," C >said Scott Studham, manager of High-Performance Computing Systems, G >PNNL. "HP delivered a first-rate system with unprecedented storage, an F >interconnect that allows processors to communicate in less than threeA >microseconds, and Intel's next-generation Itanium 2 processors."  > B >HP Superdome systems equipped with PA-RISC and Itanium processorsF >accounted for 121 of the company's entries and HP AlphaServer systemsG >represented 18 sites, including the most powerful system in the United D >States - the AlphaServer-based ASCI Q system at Los Alamos National >Laboratory. > A >The TOP500 ranking of supercomputers is released twice a year by D >researchers at the Universities of Tennessee and Mannheim, Germany,C >and at NERSC Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. The list ranks ? >supercomputers worldwide based on the Linpack N*N Benchmark, a E >yardstick of performance that is a reflection of processor speed and 
 >scalability.  > ; >----------------------------------------------------------  > G >(1) The complete listing of TOP500 Supercomputer sites is available at  >http://www.top500.org >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 10:00:46 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) % Subject: Re: HP's Adaptive Enterprise = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312021000.6736e016@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FB295D0.E14EFEC9@istop.com>...  > John Smith wrote: 3 > > Just wondering how much of it will include VMS.  > P > During the May presentation, VMS was excluded. So don't expect it to magically  > become part of this initiative  < Actually, VMS _will_ be included in HP's Adaptive Enterprise initiative going forward.   B When you think about it, VMS has technologies that are some of theD best-suited in the entire industry to actually achieve the vision ofA the Adaptive Enterprise in the real world.  For example, shifting E system resources around between different environments dynamically as E workload and demand shifts is a piece of cake for VMS Clusters and/or  Galaxy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:38:51 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>3 Subject: Re: LBR$ library routines and DCX encoding ) Message-ID: <3FCC798A.365477ED@istop.com>   & More questions about the LBR routines:  K When calling the LBR$GET_HISTORY routine, is there documentation on exactly L what is contained in the descriptor furnished to the user routine called for each history record ?   N I seem to be getting binary data. Has anyone (other than the guy who wrote theN LIBRARY utility) succesfully used LIB$GET_HISTORY and lived to tell about it ? (any sample code ?)   M Also, the routine LBR$SET_MODULE, according to the documentation, can be used N to retreive information about one particular module. I have found some crypticM information in the MHDEF and MHDDEF modules of starlet and DECC$RTLDEF. But I K really don't feel like having to reverse engineer something which should be  better documented.  N (and my original question stands: how/where does one find out if a library has been DCX compressed or not ?)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:35:33 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> 3 Subject: Re: LBR$ library routines and DCX encoding 8 Message-ID: <ri1psvg5o1433ql6218q1qh1fcmain9qj6@4ax.com>  H On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 06:38:51 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  O >(and my original question stands: how/where does one find out if a library has  >been DCX compressed or not ?)  I Have you tried creating a compressed and uncompressed version of the same I library and examining the "internal" parts of the longword array that the B get_header routine returns, for differences ?  It must be in thereL somewhere, although I could find no references to DCX compression in the LBRK part of the utilities manual.  Perhaps you are not supposed to know - after L all, if the compression and decompression are done on the fly as you add and# retrieve records, does it matter...    --  3 The mailman bringeth...  The trashman taketh away!     Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 08:24:59 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid! = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0312020824.294ed988@posting.google.com>   . the linux/slowaris/unix cert counters continue to increase at a rapid pace ...   ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12970    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:54:08 GMTm/ From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com>-A Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid! 9 Message-ID: <Qs3zb.161022$ji3.47459@twister.nyroc.rr.com>p  K Rock solid may not be an appropriate description.  Perhaps you should check-: out the latest Alpha SYS ECOs for V7.2-2, V7.3 and V7.3-1.  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0312020824.294ed988@posting.google.com...E0 > the linux/slowaris/unix cert counters continue! > to increase at a rapid pace ...e >>+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12970    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:01:02 -0500) From: "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com>eA Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!I/ Message-ID: <vspha6ahui51fa@corp.supernews.com>a  	       BobA  &   At this point does it really matter?;  VMS is better , but it's long slow death spiral continues.eE  Our last VAX was turned into a Simh machine last week and our last 2m AlphaServers are being replaced3G  next month.  The interesting note is one Alpha has been exposed to the # Internet as our Primary FTP and runvI  non-stop for over a year , zero successful hack attempts, zero downtime.a/ The longest we've had a Win2k server on the Nets3  30 days, between having to Patch and Memory leaks.n  ,                                          Rob        5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message57 news:d7791aa1.0312020824.294ed988@posting.google.com...-0 > the linux/slowaris/unix cert counters continue! > to increase at a rapid pace ...d >o+ > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12970r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:58:46 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>0A Subject: RE: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!l9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEEKIJAA.tom@kednos.com>m  9 I am having difficulty locating those ECO's on HP's site. 
 Any pointers?d   >-----Original Message-----p5 >From: Jeff Goodwin [mailto:jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com]>) >Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:54 AMI >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid! >  > L >Rock solid may not be an appropriate description.  Perhaps you should check; >out the latest Alpha SYS ECOs for V7.2-2, V7.3 and V7.3-1.s >h6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message8 >news:d7791aa1.0312020824.294ed988@posting.google.com...1 >> the linux/slowaris/unix cert counters continuen" >> to increase at a rapid pace ... >>, >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12970 >x >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.B; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003 >t ---_& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 11/18/2003    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:53:49 +0000eO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>nA Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!H0 Message-ID: <bqijje$fd5$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: 0 > the linux/slowaris/unix cert counters continue! > to increase at a rapid pace ...- > + > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12970p    1 Bob there is nothing in this article that relateso( to Solaris or any other commercial UNIX.  , So why do you keep posting this BS, remember4 you were the person who missled this group about the1 apparent invunerability of TCPWARE etc to a ranger of CERT exploits.   2 You failed to grovel when that was the only option left open to you.>  8 So how about 6 months of no security related BS from you4 starting from today its the least you can do and you6 will find that not sending this kind of stuff out will< enhance your reputation, we might have forgotten who you are in 6 months.   RegardsR Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 06:43:00 -0800r= From: jos_coloma@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Coloma?=)o- Subject: Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233 = Message-ID: <b5f0082b.0312020643.173283a9@posting.google.com>r  = At the to energize the machine appear a message with memoriesaA addresses by 1 minute approximately, later appears other message:tE "Memory Error at address 0x........" "Wrote 0x....... and read 0x....o "h   Sorry by my English.-o   Jos Coloman jose.coloma@ima.cl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:08:38 +0100d" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>1 Subject: Re: Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233h4 Message-ID: <3fccb935$0$27033$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Jos Coloma wrote:? > At the to energize the machine appear a message with memoriesrC > addresses by 1 minute approximately, later appears other message:iG > "Memory Error at address 0x........" "Wrote 0x....... and read 0x....u  & se puede hablar castillano si quere...   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:43:42 +0100( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>1 Subject: Re: Memory Error on Alphastation 255/233 : Message-ID: <bqimmk$23km2t$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  9 "Jos Coloma" <jos_coloma@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht37 news:b5f0082b.0312020643.173283a9@posting.google.com...d? > At the to energize the machine appear a message with memories C > addresses by 1 minute approximately, later appears other message: G > "Memory Error at address 0x........" "Wrote 0x....... and read 0x....  > "n >a > Sorry by my English.-u >y
 > Jos Colomag > jose.coloma@ima.cl  K If this is a hobbyist machine or a system without a maintenance contract (Io+ guess warranty is long gone on 255's) then:e - remove the cover - locate the memoryu? - remove the memory and clean the contacts with a pencil erasery - clean the machine itselfK - put the memory back in place (if there's more than one, you might want too put in one pair at the time)L I do not know how sensitive this memory is for static electricity; make sure you're grounded.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 06:54:49 -0800u- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)n6 Subject: Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0312020654.24133737@posting.google.com>e  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A29B8E.8F418174@SendSpamHere.ORG>...[ > In article <3fcb76c1$0$26813$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:1 > >Sue Skonetski wrote:e > >r > >> Dear Newsgroup, > >>  K > >> I just wanted to let you know that the next Boot Camp will be the weeki > >> of May 16.  i > >a	 > >Where?  >  > < > Where else?  Nashua, NH and likely to be held at the Tara.   Maybe we can vote on it...  ;)   I vote for Columbus, Ohio.  :)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:06:37 -0600l- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)L6 Subject: Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp3 Message-ID: <vcurk77fv257@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  m In article <f401eb7f.0312020654.24133737@posting.google.com>, soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) writes:o  = >> Where else?  Nashua, NH and likely to be held at the Tara.r >   > Maybe we can vote on it...  ;) >   > I vote for Columbus, Ohio.  :)  G You can have one there, but the VMS Developers will not be able to walkh= across the parking lot to get there, so they will not attend..   Neither will the rest of us :-)n  G Seriously, Encompass organizes events that move around the country fromtG year to year and get a small number of people from VMS Development.  IfeF one is interested in giant quantities of VMS Developers one must go to Nashua.P   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:12:45 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG6 Subject: Re: Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot camp0 Message-ID: <00A29C45.52096022@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <f401eb7f.0312020654.24133737@posting.google.com>, soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) writes:sY >VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A29B8E.8F418174@SendSpamHere.ORG>...p\ >> In article <3fcb76c1$0$26813$636a55ce@news.free.fr>, Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes: >> >Sue Skonetski wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Newsgroup,a >> >> L >> >> I just wanted to let you know that the next Boot Camp will be the week >> >> of May 16.   >> >
 >> >Where? >> i >> o= >> Where else?  Nashua, NH and likely to be held at the Tara.h >r >Maybe we can vote on it...  ;)s  H Don't count on it.  The Tara is just down the road from VMS engineering.G This proximity to VMS engineering allows more engineering talent to be rH available for these events.  The Tara is a decent hotel despite its lackH of Guinness on draught in its lobby bar.  (A nudge nudge and a wink wink for next time!)a  H There are lecture rooms in the ZKOs but not large enough and or numerous" enough to hold the bootcamp there.     >I vote for Columbus, Ohio.  :)s  5 Not!  People are being shot at on the highways there!- -- -L VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" -   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 07:33:12 -0800@) From: mranger@quickclic.net (Mike Ranger)n" Subject: openvms 7.3 tcpip problem= Message-ID: <5a3d8b21.0312020733.755fb7be@posting.google.com>l  	 Hi all...i    The background...F          upgrade from vms 7.1 through 7.1-2 to 7.3-1, ucx 4.2 to tcpip	 5.3 eco 2c      The Problem....D          Black box S/W (no source code) which communicates via tcpipC now fails with what lookes like a trapped accvio (not a stack dump,h but a message in the log file)..      The interesting point....  3           Works on vms 7.3 with multinet 4.3 rev A.o       The Notes:  >           Some time ago got this nice little alpha (200/4-233)F delivered with a wonderware product called netdde for openvms.  netddeC was supplied by a vendor as a communication solution to FactoryLinkiD HMI's in the plant.  While we would like to replace this link in the> future, right now, the resources are not available to properlyB integrate the data into the factorylink HMI's, and I would like toF upgade the alpha to take full advantage of CSWS, NTP, and keep the guyD who annually renews our support agreements happy (can't fall too far behind).  E           My experience is that I might be facing a problem where UCXoF was maybe a little LAX on enforcing some of the parameter constraints,> and TCPIP services is clamping down.  And I was once told thatC Multinet is "Bug for Bug" compatible with UCX!  And to make matters D worse, NetDDE for openvms may have a parmeter or two misplaced which< would have been fine in UCX but TCPIP services does no like.  C          And..I'm not having a lot of luck pounding on Wonderware'se@ door on this as the NetDDE product seems to be off support.  The* sources would be nice, but quite unlikely!  D          So what I am looking for is a confirmation of my suspicionsB about TCPIP services possible fixing some issues that UCX had, andF maybe any insight that might be out there that will let me remain withC TCPIP services.  Not that I have a problem with moving to multinet,iB but I prefer solve the problem rather than work around it.  I alsoF share a development box with 3 other production systems, and if I went! multinet, they would have to too!y   Mike Yet another OPENVMS fana  . P.S.  I tried run/debug, display inst - Yikes!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:11:30 GMTi. From: Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@nospamhp.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive2 Message-ID: <CY1zb.9908$Cd5.1701@news.cpqcorp.net>  I There's a new O/S baselevel on the Itanium system and 2 NATIVE compilers!e   HP OpenVMS XA2T-J2Se HP I64VMS C T7.0-2.a HP I64VMS COBOL T2.8-1340.  I If you already have a user account, login to 192.233.54.183 and check it a out.  C Register to get your own test drive account at www.testdrive.hp.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:45:09 GMTs& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS I64 V8.0 test drive2 Message-ID: <pk3zb.9920$vc5.6322@news.cpqcorp.net>   Mark Schafer wrote:iK > There's a new O/S baselevel on the Itanium system and 2 NATIVE compilers!( >  > HP OpenVMS XA2T-J2ST > HP I64VMS C T7.0-2.e > HP I64VMS COBOL T2.8-1340. >   D Actually, you have 3 native compilers.  The MACRO command now works.   -- n John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader. Hewlett-Packard Company3   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:16:32 -0800r. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)2 Subject: OpenVMS, SchlumbergerSema and ATOS Origin= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0312020916.5a76fe48@posting.google.com>-  B Do you know how will be the future of the Schlumberger and OpenVMS8 partnership after ATOS Origin buying SchlumbergerSema ?   " How Origin in the OpenVMS world ?   A http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/telecom/schlumbergersema.htmlo  G http://www.slb.com/press/newsroom/index.cfm?PRID=16942&ThisSectionID=21o  B http://www.uk.atosorigin.com/news/pressrelease/2003/semaschlum.htm     Regardse   FC   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:38:12 +0100( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS, SchlumbergerSema and ATOS Origin: Message-ID: <bqimca$20ha8s$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  = "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> schreef in berichty7 news:f30679fb.0312020916.5a76fe48@posting.google.com...aD > Do you know how will be the future of the Schlumberger and OpenVMS9 > partnership after ATOS Origin buying SchlumbergerSema ?f >i# > How Origin in the OpenVMS world ?d > C > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/telecom/schlumbergersema.html3 >:I > http://www.slb.com/press/newsroom/index.cfm?PRID=16942&ThisSectionID=21  >rD > http://www.uk.atosorigin.com/news/pressrelease/2003/semaschlum.htm >  > 	 > Regardso >a > FC  I Origin is the result of the merger of the IT division of Philips NV and anH (much) smaller company called BSO. Philips was a big blue customer longeJ before it started to use VMS systems. Origin has in-house knowledge of andK provides system management services for VMS systems. I visited them once, 5fI years ago and my opinion (at that time) was that though professional they J don't care a hoot whether they're administrating VMS systems, unix systemsL or mainframes as long as they get paid. Which is what professionalism is all about of course.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:40:22 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>eN Subject: OT: Opteron vs. Xeon - could the same hold true for Opteron vs. IA64?H Message-ID: <aD0zb.69731$ZmO.58767@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12957-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:32:43 GMTl6 From: "Miller Donaldson" <miller.donaldson@sri-gva.ch>/ Subject: Re: Pathworks to Win2K Migration hints2* Message-ID: <3fcc5c38$1@news.deckpoint.ch>   See63 http://www.softresint.com/openvms/migr_services.htmr  8 "Guy R. Briggs" <netzach@GeoCities.com> wrote in message7 news:64c46056.0311291823.323a54db@posting.google.com... E > A client company wants to migrate from Pathworks to Win2K. They aretG > dropping the Alpha and replacing it (eventually) with Wintel servers.yG > Are there any published white papers that would highlight procedures,t+ > best practices, pitfalls, pratfalls, etc?e >c > Thanks in advance, >t > Guy    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:18:52 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply): Subject: Re: products deleted from the layered-product CDs$ Message-ID: <bqhhtb$ek7$2@online.de>  G In article <nbPyb.9880$Aq4.6081@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff  Hoffman) writes: 0  H >   In specific cases, an existing and retired product may appear on theH >   Freeware, such as the case with Notes and Macro64.  (Notes is new onE >   Freeware V6.0, while Macro64 has been available for a while now.)n   Right.  G >   It would appear you are looking for an unspecified older or retired D >   kit, and -- turning the question around -- the question is, why?H >   And which particular product(s) are you seeking to learn the current >   status of?  C Nothing in particular.  I just wanted to have all the CDs I need atoH once, to get the upgrade done more quickly.  I thus borrowed four older G CDs, in each case the last one where that kit was.  In some cases, the u* stuff might be on the freeware these days.  G >   nb: the CD distribution kits usually have documentation with or on rG >   the kit which indicates which product kits have been removed and -- F >   at least in general terms -- usually also why the kit was removed.  G The former (which kits have been removed) I could find on the web site.i. Is the latter lurking there somewhere as well?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 02:53:25 -0800u- From: denis.fayaud@netspace.mc (Denis Fayaud)  Subject: Re: Qio ?= Message-ID: <93820504.0312020253.64a17582@posting.google.com>h  G The last version is more efficient (and compiles without any warning !)G    [inherit('SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET')]! PROGRAM CAMDEV_AST(output,input);      TYPE     $WORD=[WORD] -32768..32767;      $BYTE=[BYTE] 0..255;(     nodlin_type  = VARYING [80] OF CHAR;      io_status    = PACKED RECORD'                      Status_code:$WORD;r'                      Byte_count :$WORD; *                      device_dep : INTEGER;                    END;n  r   VARi     stat	: INTEGER:=0;5     ACC_channel : [VOLATILE] $word;			{ QIO Channel }l:     INbuffer    : [VOLATILE] PACKED ARRAY [1..1] OF CHAR; "     loop	: [VOLATILE] integer:=0;	&     first	: [VOLATILE] boolean:=true;	*     message 	: [VOLATILE] nodlin_type:='';     Terminal	: [VOLATILE] TEXT;V  E {-------------------------------------------------------------------}  [ASYNCHRONOUS] PROCEDURE display_message;    BEGIN      IF (INbuffer <> chr(13)) THEN ;     IF (INbuffer <> chr(10)) THEN message:=message+INbuffer       ELSE BEGIN-        writeln(terminal,message);#       IF length(message) >= 15 THENK1        IF SUBSTR(message,12,4)='EXIT' THEN $exit;e       message:='';  	      END;     END;aE {-------------------------------------------------------------------}u [ASYNCHRONOUS]  PROCEDURE Rec;o     VARB   stat,loop	  : INTEGER:=0;B4   IO_Status_Block : io_status;		{ QIO status Block };   OUTbuffer       : [VOLATILE] PACKED ARRAY [1..1] OF CHAR;s7   terminator_mask : [VOLATILE] ARRAY [1..2] OF INTEGER;m     BEGINo      terminator_mask[1]:=0;e  5 (*   terminator_mask[2]:=%O'20000';     <CR> octal *)n5 (*   terminator_mask[2]:=%X'2000';      <CR> hexa  *)e  1    terminator_mask[2]:=8192;           (* <CR> *)g      OUTbuffer[1]:=chr(0);       IF NOT first THENM
      BEGIN       $clref(2);       display_message; t      END ELSE first:=false;  O      stat:=$QIO  ( 2,x 		 acc_Channel ,   		 IO$_READPROMPT, 		 IO_status_block,e0                	 ASTADR:=  %IMMED IADDRESS(rec), 	         P1:= INbuffer, 	         P2:=1,, 	         P4:= IADDRESS(terminator_mask[1]),)       	         P5:= IADDRESS(OUTbuffer),d 	         P6:=1);     END;O  E {-------------------------------------------------------------------}f { main }   BEGIN C   WRITELN(' ',chr(27),'[4mCAMDEV$INTERFACE (02/01)',chr(27),'[0m');e8   writeln('  NO timeout - Infinite loop - AST synchro');
   Writeln;=   Writeln(' ATTENTION !!! CAMDEV doit etre en mode PASTHRU');--   Writeln(' $ set term/perm/pasthru camdev');G
   Writeln;(   stat := $Assign('CAMDEV',ACC_channel);    OPEN (terminal, 'SYS$OUTPUT');   REWRITE (terminal);    rec;
   $HIBER;  END.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:16:41 +01004" From: Didier Morandi <no@spam.com>E Subject: Re: QUEUE Manager startup in a CLUSTER after a server rebootn3 Message-ID: <3fcc4a97$0$9312$626a54ce@news.free.fr>t   John Brandon wrote:   K > I was wondering how some of you startup your queue manager in a clusteredd > environment. >  > I am running VMS V7.2-1  >  > For example: > A two node cluster.', > One node crashes and subsequently reboots. > 5 > I use the following command to start queue manager:h > - > $ start /queue /manager /on=(*) qman$master(  P I never do that. I translate the node name and I start the QM on the node where  I boot from.   example:  , $ start/que/manager/on='f$getsyi("scsnode")'   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:03:35 -0500H& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>E Subject: Re: QUEUE Manager startup in a CLUSTER after a server rebootu8 Message-ID: <29hpsvkoli5g9uv4k879i09c0vttl1qup2@4ax.com>  M On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:35:08 -0600, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) wrote:w  J >I was wondering how some of you startup your queue manager in a clustered
 >environment.F >Y >I am running VMS V7.2-1 >i
 >For example:; >A two node cluster.+ >One node crashes and subsequently reboots.a > 4 >I use the following command to start queue manager: >r, >$ start /queue /manager /on=(*) qman$master   On our clusters, we simply use:    $ start /queue /manager1  P during system startup. When no additional arguments are specified, this does notK affect the running Queue Manager process. In other words, if, due to systemDL crash, the Queue Manager has failed over to NODEB, it will remain running onP NODEB when this command is executed -- it is effectively a "NOP". If the clusterL is booting from scratch, the Queue Manager will be started on the first nodeD booted (if it is not already running) when this command is executed.I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comrI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)fI -------------------------------------------------------------------------o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:41:21 +0000o* From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>% Subject: Re: RBF file from WNT to VMSe' Message-ID: <bqhq7c$eck$1@lore.csc.com>w   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:o > F > I need send a RBF file from VAX-VMS to WNT. I issue the command: (in > WNT):' > A > but when I send this RBF file to VMS system (with put command),s > restoring the file with ) > RMU/RESTORE command I get this message:g > software header CRC error.B > My question: Is there any way to send RBF files from WNT to VMS,9 > and get data integrity ? Whats wrong in this process ?t  , <cynic mode>Using a WNT system.</cynic mode>  D OK, the issue is that the file format has been lost. Without beatingD about the bush, you need to do a ANAL/RMS_FILE/FDL on an RBF file onH your VMS system which has NOT been adulterated by any file transfers. If necessary, create one.  B Then, use CONVERT/FDL=the-name-of-the-fld-file FTPSOURCEFROMNT.EXT correctectfile.RBF  A This *should* work providing that the file has not otherwise beenw interfered with.  / Details in HELP ANAL/RMS_FILE and HELP CONVERT.o   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences- nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:31:24 -0800o. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)% Subject: Re: RBF file from WNT to VMSc= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0312020931.3d7dc02e@posting.google.com>   Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:<bqhq7c$eck$1@lore.csc.com>...m > Shiva MahaDeva wrote:i > > H > > I need send a RBF file from VAX-VMS to WNT. I issue the command: (in	 > > WNT):' > > C > > but when I send this RBF file to VMS system (with put command),r > > restoring the file withe+ > > RMU/RESTORE command I get this message:  > > software header CRC error.D > > My question: Is there any way to send RBF files from WNT to VMS,; > > and get data integrity ? Whats wrong in this process ?' > . > <cynic mode>Using a WNT system.</cynic mode> > F > OK, the issue is that the file format has been lost. Without beatingF > about the bush, you need to do a ANAL/RMS_FILE/FDL on an RBF file onJ > your VMS system which has NOT been adulterated by any file transfers. If > necessary, create one. > D > Then, use CONVERT/FDL=the-name-of-the-fld-file FTPSOURCEFROMNT.EXT > correctectfile.RBF > C > This *should* work providing that the file has not otherwise been  > interfered with. > 1 > Details in HELP ANAL/RMS_FILE and HELP CONVERT.e     Well people-    $ Does HP still give support to NTDS ?    5 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/brochures/OPENVMSD/    Regardsu   FC   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 05:50:42 -0800-+ From: Kor.Rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens)g Subject: Re: Rdb on ODS-5 disk= Message-ID: <fae8becc.0312020550.47161977@posting.google.com>u  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<PX6FxjQQD9LZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...k > In article <bqf8nl$ur3$1@bozon2.softax.com.pl>, Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> writes:r > 8 > > Is it possible to create Rdb database on ODS-5 disk? > 
 > So long as:h > / > 	1. You run a sufficiently new version of Rdbs >   and A > 	2. You restrict the names of files Rdb uses to the ODS-2 rulest > 9 > > We need to change disc structure from ODS-2 to ODS-5.  > 7 > I would be curious to know why you "need" to do that.  > I > In my own situation, I "need" to have an ODS-5 disk to ensure that codey > I write will work with ODS-5."  E You have to be careful, when you use ftp on your nodes. On ODS-2 file E which are copied to your system aren in Capital letters, when you use A ODS-5 they are ftp-ed to you in "small" letters. So when you have C command files what looks for a specified string, then it can happen ! that things are not working well.s   Regards Kork   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:09:51 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)p Subject: Re: Rdb on ODS-5 disk3 Message-ID: <FcCt9pRERFwA@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  k In article <fae8becc.0312020550.47161977@posting.google.com>, Kor.Rinkens@vodafone.nl (Kor Rinkens) writes: j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<PX6FxjQQD9LZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>...  J >> In my own situation, I "need" to have an ODS-5 disk to ensure that code  >> I write will work with ODS-5. > G > You have to be careful, when you use ftp on your nodes. On ODS-2 file:G > which are copied to your system aren in Capital letters, when you use,C > ODS-5 they are ftp-ed to you in "small" letters. So when you havemE > command files what looks for a specified string, then it can happenI# > that things are not working well.a  = Yes, those are the sorts of errors I look for in my software.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:15:12 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump filesb$ Message-ID: <bqhhmg$ek7$1@online.de>  = In article <cf15391e.0312012154.1f319a54@posting.google.com>,a4 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   L > > Are single disks or shadow sets better?  Of course, if a disk goes bad, I > > then there is a problem, but if one only has secondary page and swap ,M > > files on a dedicated disk, and minimal ones on the system disk, then one e2 > > can still continue until the disk is replaced. > E > How could you continue if the disk on which the secondary page/swapm > files are located fails?  D I've never actually experienced the situation.  If I have page/swap H files on both the system disk and another disk, and the other disk goes  down, will it crash the node?U  F > When I used local page/swap disks, I shadowed them to prevent a disk" > failure from taking a node down.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:22:08 -05002* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files ) Message-ID: <3FCC598C.B30F6736@istop.com>1  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:RE > I've never actually experienced the situation.  If I have page/swap I > files on both the system disk and another disk, and the other disk goess > down, will it crash the node?   M My GUESS is that it would freeze processes which are mapped to that page fileO- the minute they try to write or read from it.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:33:27 -0000( From: "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com>5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files-: Message-ID: <bqi132$235gee$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messaget# news:3FCC598C.B30F6736@istop.com...g1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:tG > > I've never actually experienced the situation.  If I have page/swap>K > > files on both the system disk and another disk, and the other disk goesn! > > down, will it crash the node?  >nJ > My GUESS is that it would freeze processes which are mapped to that page file/ > the minute they try to write or read from it.   I Take it from me, it will crash - Sorry, we just lost that data you put in- the pagefile...-  3 I have seen enough of these over the years to know.    -- John Travell" Independent VMS crashdump analyst. john- at - jomatech - dot - com1 +44-(0)23-92552229 http://www.jomatech.com/       ---0& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 27/11/2003$   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:30:50 GMT:4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump filesD0 Message-ID: <eu0zb.279767$9E1.1463284@attbi_s52>  q In article <cf15391e.0312012154.1f319a54@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:A !snip!E !When I used local page/swap disks, I shadowed them to prevent a disk3! !failure from taking a node down.c !k  J I have a related question, the answer to which I cannot find in the Volume% Shadowing manual, the FAQ, or on WIS.c  K The system initiates a shadow merge on a disk containing a pagefile after a F system reboot (V7.2-1).  I know I can "control" this behavior with theM SHAD$MERGE_DELAY_FACTOR logical (albeit with a read penalty).  I've decreasediF the merge from an average of four hours to minutes, using the logical.  O Does this behavior change with V7.3-1 (or above)?  I have no "hardware assists" N available to me (no HSXXX or similar hardware), so if I'm "stuck", I'm stuck.  I just want to know.   TIA, !snip!  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"CK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' w0                                          with @"   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 07:38:24 -0600  From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump filesa3 Message-ID: <KPACFg3s3BqE@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  q In article <cf15391e.0312012154.1f319a54@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: ~ > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote in message news:<bq73e9$m4b$2@online.de>...K >> Presumably, these should be locally connected and not MSCP-served disks,oL >> since that will a) be quicker and b) always be available, i.e. even when % >> the node is not part of a cluster.k > D > Local SCSI disks don't have write-back caching -- individual disks> > typically have track read-ahead caching at best.  Local RAIDB > controllers may have read and/or write-back cache, as can remote( > controllers like the HSx & EVA series. > K >> Are single disks or shadow sets better?  Of course, if a disk goes bad,  H >> then there is a problem, but if one only has secondary page and swap L >> files on a dedicated disk, and minimal ones on the system disk, then one 1 >> can still continue until the disk is replaced.n > E > How could you continue if the disk on which the secondary page/swap- > files are located fails? > F > When I used local page/swap disks, I shadowed them to prevent a disk" > failure from taking a node down. >  >> I'm thinking that with a L >> shadow set, reads will be faster but writes will be slower and wondering ) >> how big a performance hit this can be.m > D > If the two disks were synchronized in rotational position, the twoE > writes which Shadowing does in parallel would take exactly the same.G > time, but in practice, spindles are NOT synchronized.  So you have tooB > add some factor to the latency on the average (about 40%, IIRC).  : Note that a write-only workload is pretty much useless for? a page/swap file application.  If you factor reads into the mixeB then, unless you waste effort running your reads in parallel, yourD read/write heads won't even be on the same tracks at any given time.  A If you're queueing up traffic for the disks, your queues will not ? be identical (though you would presumably balance their length)2? and your latency to the two disks can diverge (or converge) dueL to queueing delays.b  4 But I'm not a disk storage expert.  Keith Parris is.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 08:05:22 -0600S From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: recommendations for page/swap/dump files 3 Message-ID: <Zaa+OeKPLbJI@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  e In article <bqi132$235gee$1@ID-120847.news.uni-berlin.de>, "John Travell" <john@jomatech.com> writes:a9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messageo% > news:3FCC598C.B30F6736@istop.com...e2 >> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:H >> > I've never actually experienced the situation.  If I have page/swapL >> > files on both the system disk and another disk, and the other disk goes" >> > down, will it crash the node? >>K >> My GUESS is that it would freeze processes which are mapped to that paget > file0 >> the minute they try to write or read from it. > K > Take it from me, it will crash - Sorry, we just lost that data you put in2 > the pagefile...- >05 > I have seen enough of these over the years to know.n  D One assumes that this happens when mount verification finally abortsB and that, until that time, the affected processes are in something like a PFW state.n  C Kernel processes can't incur a page fault while holding a spinlock,f3 so you're not going to crash on a spinlock timeout.T  B But when mount verification times out you have a page-not-valid orB similar exception propagating up past the page fault handler.  And> if that page fault was incurred in kernel mode....  That's all
 she wrote.  @ But then I have not seen enough of these over the years to know.F The only one I can remember was a forced error bit set and a resulting' PAGERDERR (sp?) exception in user mode..   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:05:09 +0800>, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: Routable Protocol for Clusteringu- Message-ID: <87vfozfefu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  1 "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> writes:a  C > We keep getting pressure from our networking group to consolidateiF > our multi-site VMS cluster.  They want this consolidation so they doA > not have to worry about network configurations that support the0? > non-routable LAVC protocol.  Are there any plans to make LAVC:  > routable or tunnel LAVC in IP?  A Perhaps if they explain why disaster resiliance is less important:; than their tiny mindset? Do they have an MCSE? Perhaps theye should get one, then use it :|     -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:41:50 GMTR& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <e0apsvg1qs4uc1r3v1mpo826h7onfgu130@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:01:42 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >l4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:j4c9sv4fugbh2e2ouakd55idqa85odmoum@4ax.com... I >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:05:28 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >> >> >jlsue wrote:K >> >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:27:19 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy/4 >> >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >> >>e >> >* >> >The crux of the matter as I see it is:M >> >a) in June 2001 Compaq said to its customers, 'Everything we/Digital toldrI >> >you about Alpha is wrong. It isn't a leading cpu, it isn't capable of0 >havinghG >> >any life beyond the next couple years, it does not and can't have a- >25-yearL >> >life span. My god, what were we thinking? Our cpu designers aren't up to >theL >> >challenge. Intel can do anything we do better - even if they don't steal >it$M >> >from us. That we don't do much if anything to market Alpha has nothing toc >doaE >> >with our decision. Oh, and BTW, were going to screw our partner -l
 >Samsung - >> >while we're at it.'r >> >> That's not what I heard.r > J >You've already demonstrated that your hearing is significantly impaired -    And your's is hopelessly skewed.  I >and that your ability to compensate for this by paying attention to what> >others have heard is nil.  F I've heard what they've said.  I've also separated what's really known4 (i.e., fact) from what they believe (i.e., opinion).   >fM >John isn't even guilty of exaggeration.  Let's examine his assertions one bye >one:r >e= >1.  "Everything we/Digital told you about Alpha is wrong."  m  E Well, I've never denied that digital/compaq made statements that theydA changed their minds on.  I don't think that's been any part of myrH discussion... so I guess trying to drum up support for something I never" said is a tad wasteful of my time.   >   >2.  "It isn't a leading CPU."    I "Leading CPU" has many dimensions, of which performance is only one.  YouuG have, at least, a) performance, b) market penetration, c) price, d) ISVa# support, e) revenue, and f) profit.y  G If they felt it was failing in one or more of these areas, depending oniH their business goals, they it should be within their business managementA perview to change the company direction.  I will concede that the-I announcement and handling may not have been the most effective in getting # that word out, if this is the case.    >cH >3.  "It isn't capable of having any life beyond the next couple years."  J IA64 has experienced delays.  IIRC, most Alpha implementations experiencedI some pretty serious delays as well.  Assuming/predicting that Alpha wouldeK have delivered perfectly, and comparing that to a reality-based view of how / IA64 delivered isn't exactly a fair comparison.t  I In any case.  I don't recall them saying it wouldn't have a life beyond a J couple of years.  I'm sure that some may have interpreted it that way, but) when I heard the announcements, I didn't.)   > H >4.  "It does not and can't have a 25-year life span."  Well, not if allJ >development is cut off by its 12th year - but that was the *only* obvious
 >obstacle.  H Sure, if you ignore market forces, current developments, business goals, etc. s  M >[snip the rest... mostly a bunchy of inuendo and vendetta-based accusations]r   >y* >  What I heard was that the difference inL >> performance was not worth the continued investment, in the opinion of theM >> management at CPQ.  That's their job to make those decisions.  While I mayeK >> not always like the outcome, and while there may always be two (or more)tK >> other possible paths to take, the management chose to go another way.  I I >> was just as peeved about the loss of Alpha, but I've realize that it'se >juste* >> another small bump in the road of life. >vJ >Right - I'm sure that's just how the American Indians feel about the manyK >broken treaties that our government made with them.  And there's certainly0J >no point in rehashing any of that *now*:  it's all in the past - move on.  I When you start making up crazy parallels, it's obvious reasoning goes out. the window, Whatever.1   >>L >> But Bill's statements seemed to say that Sun's investment in SPARC wasn'tG >> intended to make it a performance leader (and it isn't a performanceF# >> leader), but just keep it alive.r >lM >No, that's not what any competent (and honest) reader of my statements would: >have brought away from them.>  H Nice mouth.  You just can't seem to get it through your head they you'veI spewed so much stuff out there, that some people may view your statements>J differently than you intended - the fact that you have to trivialize thoseI views with such negative mischaracterizations must make others besides medJ wonder where your head is really at.  Or even question YOUR intentions and honesty.   >nH >Of *course* Sun was trying to make its SPARC architecture a performanceH >leader:  it simply failed in the attempt.  And it has been aggressivelyF >trying - witness its active research into OoO, SMT, asynchronous chip >components, and the like.  G But, the point is that they didn't invest enough to actually DELIVER onhA these pursuits.  It's not as if any of this was impossible to do, K considering that other companies have delivered working architectures basedtK on them.  But they didn't commit enough to the endeavor to actually provide 2 something that their customers could benefit from.   >1E >Now it's taking steps to rectify the situation - by winding down the7C >disappointing implementation and concentrating on an existing moreo= >successful one (SPARC64) plus a promising new one (Niagara).e  F And CPQ announced their business plan was to get out of their own chip> architecture business and invest, instead, in another vendor'sK architecture.  The decision could be very valid, based on a belief that the E performance will be industry-leading (eventually, and there have beeni6 delays), without having to incur all the direct costs.   >o* >  Certainly folks who really wanted SPARCK >> (and Sun) to shine could complain just as vehemently that Sun made a bad A >> decision not to push SPARC to the limits and make it a leader.o >nJ >For someone so quick to criticize JF for supposedly suggesting motivationK >without having the slightest clue about what *actually* went on inside theeK >company, you're awfully quick to do so yourself.  Exactly what evidence do L >you have that Sun made any decision not to push SPARC's performance as hard
 >as it could?w >u  I And this from a guy who accused me of being dishonest for misrepresentingrC what he said.  This is so ironic it almost makes me laugh out loud.t  H Nowhere, NOWHERE in my quoted text do I even attempt to suggesting Sun'sB motivation.  I don't even care what went on within Sun, I'm merelyH discussing how CUSTOMERS could view the actions in the same light as you and JF are for CPQ/HPQ.m   >>M >> But judging from this discussion, it appears that they have not pursued an B >> investment strategy that would make SPARC a performance leader. > J >Your judgement is, as usual, incompetent.  Please point to any portion ofK >this discussion that suggests *any* investment strategy that Sun has takenoM >in its support of SPARC (other than the recent one to concentrate on exactlyaH >those SPARC variants that *do* promise better performance), let alone aF >strategy that *consciously* failed to place a premium on performance.  J I'm merely looking at the results.  Many in here have shown that SPARC hasG not kept up well.  And IIRC you even stated that it was good enough, attE good price points.  I'm not trying to draw this down into a comp.arch 3 discussion.  It's a customer perception discussion.- >-	 >  Opting-3 >> instead to just make it "good enough" to get by.k >hL >Yet another imputation of motivation by someone utterly unqualified to makeJ >it.  The fact that Sun's current SPARC *does* happen to be good enough to: >get by hardly proves that this is all Sun was aiming for.  J I didn't say that they were "aiming for" this.  I said that their businessH investment strategy apparently allowed for it.  I'm not even saying that? this is a mistake, because I don't necessarily think it is one.o   >  >  And apparently thatM >> strategy is considered valid by some, so I'm just trying to understand theh3 >> logic that allows Sun's strategy, but not CPQ's.s >-G >If you're really trying to understand, you're clearly incompetent.  IfrM >you're not actually having such difficulty understanding, you're a liar (andP >a shill as well). >P  I Ah well.  In the wonder universe of Bill Todd, everyone who doesn't agreen? with him is incompetent, lying, etc.  Such a sad place to live.a   --- jlsP0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail):   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:04:46 GMT9& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <srcpsvcfv03f1lh714ljrgp2p7vpjmed4f@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:45:56 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:oD >> That's not what I heard.  What I heard was that the difference inL >> performance was not worth the continued investment, in the opinion of the >> management at CPQ.  - >-K >I heard that IA64 was expected to shortly overtake Alpha so it was best tosM >move to IA64. This in the face of all those presentations by Digits that hadgB >shown curves where IA64 would never catch up with Alpha. In thoseK >presentations, it was admitted that IA64 would narrow the huge gap between3 >Merced and Alpha.  C The point isn't about catching up.  It's about total $$$ spent (CPUmC development & manufacturing, system development & manufacturing, CSeC support, ISV support, marketing, salary+benefits+retirement, etc...0H resources that may be better spent elsewhere), expected revenues/profit;E and compare this to the alternative(s) - and realize that Intel helpspJ market/sell servers with their CPUs.  I certainly have no idea how the twoF alternatives (Alpha vs Intel) really compare.  I've read all of Bill'sF analysis on the subject, and I've also read analysis of internal AlphaI foes, and all of it lacks some crucial pieces of information, imho.  It'siI not incorrect analysis necessarily, but there is margin of error based onmI measurements that aren't included.  Those unknowns are not insignificant,tK to me.  I figure that others in here can decide how significant they are onV7 their own.  I only see to point out that they do exist.e   >dM >The "narrowing of the gap" was prior to June 25 2001, at a time where Compaq-: >had made serious (or so we thought) commitments to Alpha.  G I understand how the "commitment" statements make the 6/25/2001 actionseJ very unpalatable for most folks.  I don't deny this at all - i.e., I fullyG concede that many customers were unsatisfied with the whole thing.  I'm5J sure some of those will be lost forever (or, at least as long as "forever"J exists in the business world - which often isn't all that long due to whatJ I view as attention-deficit-disorder management in many businesses today).  J But I gotta say that, outside of c.o.v, it's not all that high on the listJ of discussion for any customers sites that I visit today.  And these sites6 include current (and even new!) AlphaServer customers.   > O >When an ISV seens a vendor who is motivated to grow its customer base, the ISVaB >is automatically motivated to port his software to that platform. > N >When an ISV sees a vendor who doesn't intend to grow a platform, but insteadsM >wants to control its demise over at least 5 years, then ISV has 0 motivation,; >to port to that platform which has 0 growth opportunities.T >vM >Sun is the formet paragraph, HP-VMS is the later paragraph. Sun may not have L >the best CPU in town, but it has the best combination of performance, priceT >and more importantly, software availability and image of being the leader for Unix.  H There's no doubt that Sun has more ISV support.  I question the value ofH all of those ISV's though.  In VMS' heyday we has some really strong ISVG support, but some of those applications were pretty sucky.  The same is C true for Windows - lots of ISV support, but the quality is severelyr lacking.  E So the OpenVMS strategy today seems to be to focus on those ISVs that H provide quality and accessiblility to the markets that HP wants to focusJ on.  It doesn't appear that the desire is to become the predominant server in terms of total marketshare.  A My personal hope is that the IA64 option is going to open up moresJ opportunities for OpenVMS systems.  I'm an optimist about life in general,H and I guess that includes my favorite OS' future.  But I, personally, am- not impacted that much if it doesn't pan out.n   --- jlsc0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:40:12 GMT-& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <hnfpsv4n0lspcuo2s1385tt4v6nusv9bcf@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:57:05 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:'A >> CPQ did not yank anything out from under anyone in their AlphaEJ >> announcement.  Nobody who invested in Alpha before the announcement hasJ >> lost anything since.  In fact, they've still got a long future with the >> platform.   >$ >DO >Think again. The Government of Qubec had just signed a couple months before aNM >MAJOR contract to port all their mainframe stuff to Tru64 Unix on Alphas.  IhJ >don't know the specifics, but if I had been in their shoes, on June 25, IH >would have sued Compaq to force them to not only take the equipment andD >software back for a full refund, but also pay the costs of softwareN >development that had already been undertaken. Especially by September when it, >had been made official that Tru64 was dead.  K Okay, I overstated when I mentioned "nobody".  I'll concede that there were I some.  It's still not certain, though, that the June 25 announcement will-G have a business impact very soon on that investment.  There are lots of I details missing in this example to determine if the impact matters from a  "business" perspective.-   >-? >>The death of the long-term future of Alpha does not magicallyC+ >> cause the existing systems to go *poof*.l >	N >Consider customers who had just begun projects to convert TO Alpha. Not those >long standing customers.E  B Agreed.  That could be a problem.  I didn't mean to exclude those.   >T >RK >> doomsday announcement.  And these customers' businesses will continue to0G >> have significant room for growth in the medium-term future for thosex
 >> workloads.r >aM >Out of cusiosity, are the newly announced *systems* the last *systems* to beNO >developped, or does HP intend to produce one more batch of new boxes once EV7xE >becomes available ?  F Well, looking at what they had from the June 25 announcement referenceC point (say an EV68 8+ CPU "wildfire" box), going on to EV7 and EV7+ J "marvel" systems with 64 CPUs will provide huge amounts of workload growth for *most* workloads.5  J And at the time of the announcement, Tru64 *was* planned for IA64 porting,J so there would be, theoretically, much less effort required to move to the
 new platform.7  K Again, is that enough for the GoQ?  I have no idea.  Those managers have toi make that decision.r   --- jlst0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:32:15 GMT-& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <d4epsv4gjo8lm25dmptchqi4tp9nsobfqu@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:03:11 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > 4 >"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message3 >news:0kc9sv8lmjfl9sphqv9opo69q3m2k8j5d1@4ax.com...mK >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:14:09 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>c	 >> wrote:s  L >> >Note that you are rather carefully *not* responding to any opinions thatF >> >I've offered, but to your own attempt to twist them.  Both of yourH >> >characterizations of what I've said are incorrect, one might suspect >> >deliberately:  >> >> Why deliberate? >eM >Because the alternative is incompetence:  I was giving your intelligence the02 >benefit of the doubt, rather than your integrity.  K Sure.  Right.  The all-knowing Bill Todd can not only read the minds of the @ CPQ/HPQ management team, but also all respondents here in c.o.v.   >D7 >  Can't you allow that I may not have fully understood) >> something you've written? >sJ >I can easily allow it the first time.  Often even the second time, if theM >issue is complicated or subtle (which this one is not).  After that, I starts >to suspect the worst.  I Oh the irony.  I've spoken to the possible "missing" information that youtK continually overlook in your analysis, and yet you consistently ignore that G and act as if you know everything that the CPQ management knew.  You'ree either incompetent, or a liar.   >eL >> >a) DECpaq was incompetent because they decided not to invest in Alpha toM >> >keep it *ahead* of the competition (it had no difficulty keeping up, even M >> >after several years of neglect under Capellas) - and because they decidedbI >> >not to promote Alpha and the systems on it to make even better use ofo >their >> >investments in them. >>K >> Again, the way I see it, this is not different than Sun deciding at some-K >> point not to pursue the investments to keep their SPARC chip competitive  >in1 >> performance.r >oH >1.  Hypothetical garbage:  there's no indication whatsoever that Sun isH >deciding not to continue investments in SPARC:  rather, it's apparentlyK >shifting its emphasis from the UltraSPARC line (which hasn't turned out as M >well as it had hoped) in favor of the new Niagara SPARC line it's developingM; >from its Afara purchase and the SPARC64 line from Fujitsu.a  E Okay.  Fine.  They are just NOW pursuing alternatives.  Historically,oC however, their investments were apparently not enough to keep theireK performance competitive (according to some discussions in here).  THAT is ae business decision.   >aM >2.  Even if it *were* the case (e.g., if Sun didn't have the Fujitsu SPARC64TE >option to turn to plus the complementary throughput-oriented Niagara M >technology of its own), abandoning SPARC *because of* its inability to offerfH >competitive performance would be dramatically different from abandoning: >Alpha *despite* its current and future leadership status.  F But only if you ignore the business goals that the management team mayJ have.  Technical leadership in itself is not enough.  Long-term managementJ desire to continue that investment and the predicted benefits must also be considered.r  H So, in continuing to ignore this, are you incompetent, or are you lying?    A >> CPQ did not yank anything out from under anyone in their AlphasJ >> announcement.  Nobody who invested in Alpha before the announcement hasJ >> lost anything since.  In fact, they've still got a long future with theK >> platform.  The death of the long-term future of Alpha does not magicallym+ >> cause the existing systems to go *poof*.o >iK >No one said that it did, but to suggest that Compaq did not compromise the M >investments that it had actively *encouraged* its customers to make based on - >Alpha's long-term future is pure bullshit.     F If I suggested that, I might agree with you.  I've even said that someJ applications and customers are impacted worse than others.  But in generalK most customers won't be impacted for probably 10 years from the date of theaF announcement.  That's a lifetime (or maybe even 2) in today's business world.   >Compaq had publicly committedH >very specifically to Alpha futures through EV10, with specific featuresJ >through EV8:  when it instead took all that off the table and replaced itJ >with a single modest upgrade (EV79 - and of course even that 'commitment'M >has now been broken), it screwed its Tru64 customers royally (they have *no*ED >even quasi-compatible continuation path to follow:  an incompatibleM >migration is required as soon as EV7 ceases to continue to meet their needs)SF >and its VMS customers significantly (they have a path forward, but itM >requires a hardware migration to a platform whose performance is about threeaK >years behind the Alpha roadmap in many respects - e.g., Itanic won't offer0% >EV7-style scalability until 2006-7).R  H Again, "Plan" is not the same thing as fully committed.  No way, no how.I Nobody can predict future business cycles and climates.  My experience intC many different IT organizations seems to suggest that most businesstG managers understand this fact.  2-3 year plans are almost always viewedsI with skepticism.  Everyone (excluding perhaps yourself and JF) knows thatnF the POR, like my own career goals, is merely a stake in the ground:  a8 guiding direction for where you'd like to be eventually.  B Now, all that said, recall that I've never defended the managementG statements of commitment that occurred right up to the date of the JuneeK announcement.  The same is true of the Alpha NT announcement.  I just can'toK understand that kind of action.  However, the mere fact that I may not likelI the way that something unfolded does not mean that they didn't have good,s$ sound business reasons for doing it.   > M >And then, of course, there are the lies Compaq's spokespeople and hangers-oniK >told to try to make the decision more palatable.  Real sleazeballs, beyondoJ >question.  Are you one too?  The alternative, just as it was above, would >seem to be abject stupidity.m  F More Bill-Todd Universe logic.  You know-all and tell all.  And you'llI probably still be talking about this long into your retirement years.  Wee get it.0   >>J >> It's too early to tell for sure how things will turn out for SPARC, butL >> clearly my point is that it seems OKAY for them to give a piddling amountK >> of investment to just barely keep up performance-wise, while the same isD) >> not true for CPQ's business decisions.l >oM >Clearly, you speak from ignorance (or, I'll note once again, with deliberatenJ >intent to mislead).  By all accounts I know of, Sun's investment in SPARCL >was, and continues to be, significantly higher than cHumPaq's investment in >Alpha.m  H But.... what did it DELIVER?  I have read over-and-over in here that theH performance isn't all that stellar.  You've made some statements to that effect, as well as JF, etc.-  I If the architecture is capable of better performance, and if they haven'teI brought this capability to market, then they haven't invested *enough* tou( reach their full capabilities.  Correct?  I >> >Your attempt to draw parallels between the two situations is far more0E >> >reminiscent of so-called political 'debate' than of any objectivetE >> >evaluation.  Either you're too clueless to understand the radicaloD >> >differences between them, or too slimey to let those differences
 >interfere1 >> >with your attempts to influence the gullible., >> > >>I >> Or, perhaps I see honest parallels that you, in your apparent infinites@ >> wisdom, have just overlooked, or too slimey to even consider. > G >So we're yet again back to the question of whether you're dishonest orx
 >incompetent.i   Or you, for that matter.   >i >  Don't be anM >> idiot just because I question your position.  There is, to me, a logic gap ? >> and either I'm merely missing something, or it's a real gap.  >vH >As I noted above, I have no problem when someone misses something once.? >Sometimes even twice.  You, however, struck out some time ago.<   As well have you..   >  >  But if your< >> thesis can't stand up to challenges, it's not my problem. >FI >The problem is not the quality of my thesis but the incompetence of youre >challenges.  I Okay, if the questions are incompetent as far as challenges go, then justmA give direct answers.  That's all I ask for.  THAT would be a goodrE discussion, instead of this toilet-level of diatribe that you seem tom prefer.t   >a >>I >> Also realize that my job doesn't rely on Alpha's future.  Not even the-H >> future of OpenVMS, really.  So I view most of this continued diatribeM >> against a 2+ year old *business* decision as a bit tedious now.  I supposesM >> there are some out there who still argue about betamax vs vhs, but at somep! >> point it becomes a moot point.  >sG >Once again, you completely *miss* the point:  incompetence, or sleaze?p >w   As well have you.r   --- jlsx0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:47:50 GMTe& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <tagpsv8cnv5v24g2h4ggp13v826fqe09ut@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:48:57 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:j/ >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:04:32 -0500, JF Mezeiw% >> <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:m >>  E >> Please be careful to separate fact from opinion.  This may be youriC >> view, but it certainly isn't based on anything supported by real/ >> facts available.- >- >-J >That you and I may not have *access* to that information - if it exists -J >should not get in the way of inferences which can be made based on publicM >facts. I'd bet $100 that JF is closer to the truth in his statement than you5 >give him credit for.4  K It's strange to challenge something that is virtually unprovable.  Why eveniD offer a bet that will most likely never be collected by either side?  I >>> HP doesn't care about VMS or Tru64, its core business are printer/inkeG >>> cartridges, followed by wintel to help its freinds at microsoft ando8 >>> intel. So HP doesn't car about losing VMS custoemrs. >>@ >> From some recent business reports, it appears that OpenVMS is >> experiencing some growth. >e >HL >I'd wager $100 that the sales you are hearing about don't come close to theK >same number of VMS 'decommissions' that took place in the same timeframe -sM >either on a *new* customer basis or an existing customer adding gear vs. thevH >number of customers who have left VMS or the number of systems retired. >   J Well, first you'd have to magically calculate the number that "would" haveK occured during that time - which isn't really possible considering the huge F business downturn in almost all businesses at the time (especially the6 tech-hungry internet businesses) during the .com bust.  D Then, you'd also have to take into account future business that willF (hopefully) increase once the IA64 architecture systems come into full$ swing with OpenVMS and applications.  A We can't possibly know this for another 2-3 years, minimum, imho.e   --- jls00 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:42:14 +0000cO From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>aB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bqiitm$f66$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:J > On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:03:11 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > 5 >>"jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messageo4 >>news:0kc9sv8lmjfl9sphqv9opo69q3m2k8j5d1@4ax.com... >>K >>>On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:14:09 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>s	 >>>wrote:  >  >    >>N >>Clearly, you speak from ignorance (or, I'll note once again, with deliberateK >>intent to mislead).  By all accounts I know of, Sun's investment in SPARCdM >>was, and continues to be, significantly higher than cHumPaq's investment in  >>Alpha. >  > J > But.... what did it DELIVER?  I have read over-and-over in here that theJ > performance isn't all that stellar.  You've made some statements to that > effect, as well as JF, etc.e >   F Does it actually matter, the point is that Sun has made the investment and continues to do so.t  > We can argue until the cows come home about whether SPARC has,
 delivered.  ( There are however two inescapable facts:  B 1 SPARC still continues to be developed, there are in fact 3 major< processor families currently being designed. Alpha does not.  C 2 SPARC is the market leader in the 64bit general purpose processorhC space, by units, by revenues by ISV support so whatever your points D are about non delivery the market doesn't agree with you. The market+ never agreed with your assessment of Alpha.   F 3 A number of the Alpha processor designers now work for Sun designingA SPARC processors there has been no flow the other way, why ? Welll thats obvious isn't it.   F You attempts to try to compare SPARC with Alpha just don't wash, there< is no comparison and you must be bright enough to know this.   RegardsJ Andrew Harrison-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:42:24 GMTg& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <2mgpsvsrihu22nhp2f1g66u3glfufgs993@4ax.com>  E On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:20:18 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:3  L >> In this instance, my argument doesn't hinge on the absolute fact of Sun'sG >> performance.  Note that I am responding to Mr. Todd.  I am trying towN >> understand the logic behind two different opinions I've seen come from him,M >> namely:  a) DEC/CPQ/HPQ is bad because they decided to not invest in alpharL >> to allow it to keep up, and b) Sun is not bad, even though it has decided% >> not to invest in Sparc to keep up.m >>   >l  >Let me remind you of the facts.  G Well, you've completely changed the direction of the discussion and ther- parallels presented.... but what the hell....a   > ? >Compaqs plan of record for Alpha was to continue to develop it,? >and right up to the days preceeding the announcement of AlphaseC >demise Compaq sales and technical people were giving presentationso> >to customers under NDA that included 25 year life projections >for Alpha and of course EV8.  >e= >When HP announced their strategy for Alpha they axed EV8 but   J Yep.  The dropped something that was still some time out from a real-world  system was concerned.  Yes, they   >committed to develop EV79.e  I They committed to develop EV7 and a speedup, with the plan being what wassI currently on the table as EV79.  Commitment vs plan - the EV79 design wassJ the stake in the ground; the target.  Apparently for business reasons thisK target could not be hit within the constraints that the business needed, solH they revised the target.  They will still provide an upgrade that shouldG (in their minds anyway) provide the level of growth that customers willeG need.  Is it enough?  I have no idea.  Do you?  Are there customers for H which the current EV7-based "marvel" system doesn't have enough steam toK keep them happy for another 10 years; and for which the new target for EV7za will not provide enough either?e  7 I imagine that it's possible there are some.  How many?t   >s@ >So not only did Compaq and HP decide not to invest in Alpha but@ >they also mislead their customers about their actual intentions >for the processor family.  J Making commitments just prior to the June 25th announcement was definitely= not good (just as the NT on Alpha announcement was not good).   I But it's still not clear that this EV79-now-EV7z is a problem for anyone.l   >eA >There are no parallels here between Alpha and SPARC and there issG >no point in trying to pretend that there is, it is simply an attempted,; >diversion on your part and a very transparent one at thet..  G What would be my motivation for intentional diversion?  Am I personallye% impacted either way?  No, not really.f   >> aM >> Well, that's not entirely true of IA64 systems now is it?  And the vendorseM >> involved with the Intel CPU have a track record of high-end systems (e.g.,4M >> PA-RISC and Alpha from an HP perspective).  At least some of these vendorsMK >> are known for providing excellent chipsets for servers using Intel chips D >> that allow those CPUs to be utilized in higher-end systems today. >> e >o< >So do Cray, IBM and Sun so there is no difference is there.  G Yep.  But still no track record with AMD chips in that space.  I do notsK doubt that it will happen eventually.  But there are trade-offs in chip andaG system design.  Today we do not know what those will be with AMD chips.t   >>   >> ,M >> Superdome.  It may not be the top performer, but it's a real-world system,hA >> high-end, and to date AMD does not have anthing to counter it.c >>   >tH >Humm TPC-C has never passed muster as an example of a real-world system  G And yet, there have been times during your history of posting here thatrD you've been happy to discuss TPC-C numbers as if they actually meant
 something.  I >and to be brutally blunt SuperDome/IA64 hardly qualifies as a real worldrG >system at this point because of its tiny available software portfolio.e  > And yet, we are selling them to customers for their real world4 applications, and they appear to be happy with them.   >eF >Real-world systems run apps, there arn't any for IA64 ergo it isn't a >real-world system.e >e  J That's funny.  We're selling them to customers today, so something appearsJ to run on them (though I'll admit, how many are end-users and how many are* ISVs is something I don't have access to).  K But your point is well taken.  It's certainly not something for which theredE is a large number of applications available - yet.  But even you muste@ recognize that a real, shipping system is much more solid than aI theoretical AMD-based system that nobody even has a chipset for... right?U   --- jlsd0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 17:44:57 +0000 O From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday0 Message-ID: <bqij2p$f66$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:  L > And at the time of the announcement, Tru64 *was* planned for IA64 porting,L > so there would be, theoretically, much less effort required to move to the > new platform.  >   = And as we know that planned porting excercise was dropped ando: subsequently the plan to incorporate Tru64 technology into: HP-UX has also slipped (could resourcing be at the root of
 the problem).    Regards. Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 07:10:36 -0700a% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>,  Subject: RE: SWXCR configurationB Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031202070449.01ffd770@raptor.psccos.com>  ) At 11:26 PM 12/1/2003, Don Rogstad wrote:u   >Dan O'Reilly wrote: >t. > > Trying to configure the SWXCR in the AS100$ > > I just acquired.  I have severalL > > RZ29B-VA drives to put in the cabinet.  The SWXCR seems to be configuredN > > such that the internal SW shelf is on the SWXCR, and the internal tape andJ > > CD are on the internal SCSI bus.  The drives I have all work fine in aJ > > BA350 shelf.  If I put them in the internal shelf in the AS1000, I canL > > init the drives, format them, whatever, but only the drives in the top 3M > > slots (DRA0-DRA2) can be accessed (doing this all JBOD).  The rest of the M > > drives get a fault light and spin down when they're accessed.  I can takez> > > them out and put them back in the BA350, and they're fine. >vM >Have you run the SWXCRMGR software yet?   This problem looks like the bottombM >three slots are configured as some sort of RAID configuration (1 or 5) which H >would explain why the fault light comes on.  The SWXCR raid controller 	 >does nota" >see the configuration it expects.  E Yes, I've run RCU (arccf.exe).  The latest try, I had  6 slots in thetE backplane with RZ29B-VA drives.  The top 3 were already configured aseE a JBOD system.  I set up a new config (using the auto configuration).eF It found 5 drives + 1 that was in UNFORMATTED state.  I did the formatD on the drive, then told RCU to reselect the controller and did a newF configuration.  This time I saw all 6 drives as JBOD.  I then told RCUC to init the drives (just the bottom 3, the top 3 had data on them).r  I It started the init, then a bit of the way in, the drives went into faultaJ mode and wouldn't do anything.  If I booted the system, the SWXCR reportedI 6 drives, the last 3 of which had a "controller failure" on them.  I theneG shut the system down, reconfigured the controller to only see the first I 3 drives (the good ones) then pulled the failed 3 drives out and put them F in a BA350 I have connected to the AS1000.  When I boot, all drives on! both backplanes come up properly.t  N >   If you still haven't been able to find the software, let me know and I canG >send it to you or put it on a FTP site to be pulled down.  I have the   >"StandaloneJ >RAID Array Software v3.2 for AXP systems" - AK-Q6TFE-CA that I use for my& >AlphaServers 1000A SWXCR controllers.  I I do have the 3.2 software.  I've been using the standalone RCU utiltity,f> but I'll make up a floppy with the 3.2 stuff on it and try it.   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 05:44:27 -0800a From: mb301@hotmail.com (MB)  Subject: tcpip nfs mount problem= Message-ID: <1d08b916.0312020544.4f254fcf@posting.google.com>l   Hi,n  E I am writing a DCL procedure to mount via nfs tcp(5.1) version a disks on a remote server.a  - $ TCPIP MOUNT DNF0: /HOST="K9" /PATH="/DISKx"a  D How does one obtain the next DNFx number that is used, as each time 1 you mount a disk it uses a uses the next number. h  = If is try and force to to dnf10: it just start from 10 again.   & I know I could use do something like:-   $ def sys$output t.tmp hF and then read in the line to find out what device it has use, but this look very messy..o       mark   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:00:41 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>$ Subject: Re: tcpip nfs mount problem, Message-ID: <bqi5ub$1ala@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  a "MB" <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1d08b916.0312020544.4f254fcf@posting.google.com...a  / > $ TCPIP MOUNT DNF0: /HOST="K9" /PATH="/DISKx"l >aE > How does one obtain the next DNFx number that is used, as each timep2 > you mount a disk it uses a uses the next number.  M It's usually best to avoid trying to get physical device names to do want you K want. Is there any reason why you can't just use the logical name parameterv
 on the mount?o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:33:29 +1100: From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> Subject: Re: VMS on PDP-10?eC Message-ID: <3fcc5ca0$0$31746$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>a  K Wasn't there a pdp that ran VAX in emulation mode in engineering somewhere?i  > Just like weren't there VAXen like 88XX's that emulated alpha?   -- i David McKenzie   elimate rugby to reply    Phone:   +613 9844 0047 Mobile:   +61 405 505 956t2  Email:    david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.rugby.biz)    Web:    http://www.paradigm-shift.biz/P   IT Law and security a bad mixg< "Rob Brooks" <brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message' news:C$DAT0VyDgk5@cuebid.zko.dec.com... ? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e( > > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:. > >> from http://www.cadigital.com/kildall.htm >y
 > >> ../..L > >>> Gary, and his students, wrote a small control program, which he called CP/MG > >>> (Control Program/Microcomputer). It enabled him to read and writet files toA > >>> and from the disk. Gary copied the commands and file-namingm conventions from* > >>> the DEC PDP-10 VMS operating system. > >dG > >    Saw another contractor use "PDP VAX 11/780" when replacing a bideG > >    originally based on PDP 11/70 with one based on VAXen.  It was atJ > >    common point of confusion when VAXen were new as up to then all DEC> > >    computers were PDP-something, even if they were sold as > >    DECSYSTEM-somethingelse.i > G > The first 11/780 was sold to Carnegie-Mellon.  The purchase order was-G > displayed at the fall 1987 DECUS symposium in Anaheim, as part of thel' > 10th birthday celebration of the VAX.R >S0 > The line item listed was "Extended PDP-11/780" >  > -- - > 1 > Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec GroupW brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:35:09 +0800', From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: VMS on PDP-10?e- Message-ID: <87znebfftu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   5 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:a  & > Didier Morandi <no@spam.com> writes:  , >> from http://www.cadigital.com/kildall.htm  C >>> Gary, and his students, wrote a small control program, which hehB >>> called CP/M (Control Program/Microcomputer). It enabled him to> >>> read and write files to and from the disk. Gary copied the@ >>> commands and file-naming conventions from the DEC PDP-10 VMS >>> operating system.   ? > I still thought I knew that CP/M was based on DOS-11, though.e  = CP/M was to a good degree inspired by RT-11. And written on ac# 11/45 running RT in Gary's bedroom.e     -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.v@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:07:57 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: VMS on PDP-10?n3 Message-ID: <DUMqg0Dg3IAE@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <3fcc5ca0$0$31746$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net>, "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@paradigm-shift.biz> writes:M > Wasn't there a pdp that ran VAX in emulation mode in engineering somewhere?e > @ > Just like weren't there VAXen like 88XX's that emulated alpha?  G Only at chip-emulation speeds, suitable for debugging hardware designs.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:03:19 GMTy; From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonspam@nothp.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on PDP-10?o) Message-ID: <3FCCB7C7.EED692DF@nothp.com>n   >"O > > Gary, and his students, wrote a small control program, which he called CP/MhN > > (Control Program/Microcomputer). It enabled him to read and write files toP > > and from the disk. Gary copied the commands and file-naming conventions from( > > the DEC PDP-10 VMS operating system. >t  P PDP-10 was a machine architecture, not an operating system.  Tops-10 and Tops-20 were the o/s for the machines.  N Tops-20 had some simlar commands and directory specs to VMS/DCL, but also manyJ differences.  And Tops-20 had features VMS didn't, like command completion7 (escape), and help in the middle of a command with "?".   H I'd guess the text clip is missing some details of what they did...  ;-)   Charliep   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2003 09:18:48 -0800r. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)/ Subject: XFC 7.3 and Process States (HIBO/LEFO)e= Message-ID: <f30679fb.0312020918.23a52125@posting.google.com>f  , I have an ES-40, OVMS 7.3 and XFC activated.1 And a lot of LPR process in HIBO and LEFO states.V3 I know there is now reason to worry about that, buts3 is recommended to buy more memory ? I have 10 GB ! V   Regardsb   FC   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.667 ************************upport, but the quality is severelyr lacking.  E So the OpenVMS strategy today seems to be to f