1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 07 Dec 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 677       Contents: Results of SAN vendor survey  Re: Results of SAN vendor survey  Re: Results of SAN vendor survey  Re: Results of SAN vendor survey  Re: Results of SAN vendor survey+ Re: Telnet session with fixed TNAnnn: name? , Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS1 why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731? 5 Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731? 5 Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731? 5 Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731? 0 Re: Will VMS contribute to Microsoft's profits ?0 Re: Will VMS contribute to Microsoft's profits ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2003 03:50:14 -0800 ' From: s_sharma32@hotmail.com (ccie_san) % Subject: Results of SAN vendor survey = Message-ID: <4c2fb3dc.0312070350.1481d3ba@posting.google.com>   0 http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031124/nym005_1.html  / interesting reading on storage networks (SAN) : ? http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/ps4159/ps4358/index.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 07:47:11 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>) Subject: Re: Results of SAN vendor survey ) Message-ID: <3FD32146.817D5521@istop.com>    ccie_san wrote: 2 > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031124/nym005_1.html   (newgroups trimmed)   G You would have thought that the combination of Digital and HP's storage 4 businesses would have put HP at least on the map ...  
 More info at: A http://www.heavyreading.com/default.asp?page=excerpt&excerpt_id=9   M In there, they show a graphs of the leading vendor, ranked by performance. HP L is not mentioned, but  Veritas, IBM Tivoli, CA, Legato,  Backbone, Commvault are listed.   % There is the interesting bit of text:  ##M Many big vendors trying to cross over into the  storage networking market are C not yet perceived as strong suppliers. Ciena, Computer Associates,  I Hewlett-Packard, and Lucent Technologies are all struggling to  establish 9 reputations as leading suppliers in SAN product  sectors.  ##  L Judging from the HP apologists on this group, I was fairly convinced that HPK was seen as one of the leading storage product vendors. Biased or not, this J survey didn't put HP anywhere near the leading pack.  This is at odds withC statements from HP that it is a leading vendor of storage products.   L Either this survey is extremely flawed (full survey costs $3000 to read), orL HP really does have an image product and the marketplace doesn't see HP as a storage vendor.   7 Any comments on how one should interpret this survey ?    G I can understand Digital's storage products being obscure outside DEC's J installed customer base  since Digital didn't advertise. What is the story5 with HP not being seen as a leading storage vendor ?    N Would it be due to lack of marketing outside its installed customer base (sameL problem as with DEC) ?  Or were HP's products seen as quite inferior and not compatible ?  L For HP's current storage product portfolio, are there are ex-Digital storageF technologies left, or is it still a portfolio consisting of almost all HP-developed products ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:18:22 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)) Subject: Re: Results of SAN vendor survey 0 Message-ID: <2xHAb.328032$275.1086687@attbi_s53>  V In article <3FD32146.817D5521@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: !snip!M !Judging from the HP apologists on this group, I was fairly convinced that HP L !was seen as one of the leading storage product vendors. Biased or not, thisK !survey didn't put HP anywhere near the leading pack.  This is at odds with D !statements from HP that it is a leading vendor of storage products. ! M !Either this survey is extremely flawed (full survey costs $3000 to read), or M !HP really does have an image product and the marketplace doesn't see HP as a  !storage vendor. ! 8 !Any comments on how one should interpret this survey ?  !   M I think the fact that the survey costs $3000USD to read, is pretty indicative G of the fact that the survey's authors are trying to sell you something.    :-)   K This looks like another thinly-veiled Gartner-type scam, foisted upon those < with lots o' money and little time to research on their own.  I Which way do you think that the research-producers will make more money - < selling copies of the survey, or selling actual SAN product?    !snip!  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:30:41 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>) Subject: Re: Results of SAN vendor survey 2 Message-ID: <HZ-dnVpCM8Em_k6iRVn-tA@metrocast.net>  A "Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.gateway.2wire.net> wrote in message * news:2xHAb.328032$275.1086687@attbi_s53...4 > In article <3FD32146.817D5521@istop.com>, JF Mezei# <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  > !snip!L > !Judging from the HP apologists on this group, I was fairly convinced that HPI > !was seen as one of the leading storage product vendors. Biased or not,  thisH > !survey didn't put HP anywhere near the leading pack.  This is at odds withF > !statements from HP that it is a leading vendor of storage products.  H Good God, can't you people read?  This is not a survey about SAN *market9 penetration*, it's a survey about industry *perceptions*.    > ! L > !Either this survey is extremely flawed (full survey costs $3000 to read), orJ > !HP really does have an image product and the marketplace doesn't see HP as a > !storage vendor. > ! 9 > !Any comments on how one should interpret this survey ?  > !  > D > I think the fact that the survey costs $3000USD to read, is pretty
 indicativeI > of the fact that the survey's authors are trying to sell you something.  >  > :-)  > G > This looks like another thinly-veiled Gartner-type scam, foisted upon  those > > with lots o' money and little time to research on their own. > K > Which way do you think that the research-producers will make more money - > > selling copies of the survey, or selling actual SAN product?  E I'll repeat the comment I made above to you as well:  this survey has J nothing to do with SAN sales, just perceptions thereof.  It was presumablyE brought to our attention because it makes Cisco look good (hasn't the A original poster appeared to be a shill for Cisco in some previous  postings?).   L By normal measures, HP is a - perhaps *the* - leader in SAN sales, and whileI the comments about the report don't mention this (nor is there really any D reason why they should:  it obviously has little to do with industryL perceptions) the authors are likely well aware of it:  their organization isK part of the same group that publishes ByteandSwitch, an on-line publication 1 devoted to storage networking.  See, for example, 8 http://www.byteandswitch.com/document.asp?doc_id=44503 .  J I don't have much faith that HP will maintain its SAN leadership position,K because I don't think they have retained the people who are responsible for J getting them there, but with its current product set it's doing quite wellH (though clearly not doing a great job of advertising that fact - whereasL Veritas, by contrast, buys the back cover of Storage magazine every month to do so).    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:48:51 GMT 4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)) Subject: Re: Results of SAN vendor survey 0 Message-ID: <3KJAb.328576$275.1088840@attbi_s53>  _ In article <HZ-dnVpCM8Em_k6iRVn-tA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  ! B !"Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.gateway.2wire.net> wrote in message+ !news:2xHAb.328032$275.1086687@attbi_s53...  !snip!! F !I'll repeat the comment I made above to you as well:  this survey hasK !nothing to do with SAN sales, just perceptions thereof.  It was presumably   O Correct, Bill - I did not read the originally-cited "source material".  My bad.   O Although the material *was* careful in stating that the survey was a perception I survey, they *did* manage to casually drop in this sentence, which can be 3 interpreted as a *marketshare*, not mindshare fact:   M "Veritas Software Corp. (Nasdaq: VRTS - News) and Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq: I CSCO - News) earned the highest scores for market leadership from 380 SAN  buyers and users worldwide."  M My point still stands, perhaps more firmly than before - folks are willing to I spend $ThousandsUSD to be told what other people think!  I'm in the wrong  business...	:-)    Thanks for the correction.   !snip!  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" K bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:47:52 +0100 2 From: Wilm Boerhout <w.boerhoutOLD@PAINTplanet.nl>4 Subject: Re: Telnet session with fixed TNAnnn: name?* Message-ID: <bqvbat$3p4$1@reader11.wxs.nl>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  I > There is a slight possibility you could do something with LGI_CALLOUTS, G > but you would need to use the source listings to get that working, if  > indeed it is possible at all.    I have a cunning plan...  E The documented interface to LOGINOUT callout *suggests* that it is a  E possible route for me. The CALLOUT / CALLBACK environment appears to  F have access to the ACCPORNAM structure. The example code doesn't look C too complicated, and I have used callout/callback routines before,  H albeit for the VMS print symbionts (I wrote an X.25 print symbiont when 1 that was considered useful, 1988 or thereabouts).   D I suggest a very small LOGINOUT callout that modifies the ACCPORNAM I structure during initialization phase, so that by the time the autologin  C is checked, it will find the modified structure, from which I have  6 deviously and cunningly removed the "Port: 1234" part.   Is this worth looking into?   F Security is not an issue, otherwise I would not consider autologin at G all from PCs. It's simple operational expedience that caused autologin  $ from TXAn: ports in the first place.   Wilm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:18:20 +0100( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS : Message-ID: <bqv9go$25038h$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  ) <misc@vectorgames.org> schreef in bericht ' news:bqtqaj$39v@library1.airnews.net...  > Hello all, >  >  > G > I have a VAX 11/750 that wants to join the rest of it's brothers in a 
 > VAXCluster.  > I > I was able to dig up a QBus RL02 controller, and using a VAX 4000 I was H > able to install VMS 6.1 Standalone Backup to an RL02. The VAX 4000 wasG > then able to successfully boot from this disk pack. I'm trying to use J > the RL02 since it is the only drive that I currently have that I can use( > with my QBus VAXen *and* UNIBUS Vaxen. > G > I have a UNIBUS RL02 controller in the '750, but for some reason when C > attempting to boot the '750 from RL02 (b dla0) it gives an error:  > 	 > fc2c 06  > I > Obviously the drive and disk pack is okay, since the 4000 seems to work G > fine with it. I've tried using two different UNIBUS RL02 controllers, F > one of them from a PDP-11/84 that loads RSX-11 from an RL02 - so the > controller is probably okay. > F > I have a couple (out of a bunch) TU-58 tapes that can boot the '750,H > with one of them containing the "boot58" utility, however this is from > VMS 3.x-something. > K > My VAXCluster (a couple of MicroVaxes and a 4000-500) is running VMS 6.1.  > J > Does anyone have any clues to give on what I could possibly do to at getJ > some form of VMS running on this machine? I realize that I can't run VMSI > 6.1 on the RL02, but I was hoping to at least use it to boot the 11/750 3 > and enable it to join the cluster (via ethernet).  >  > Thanks for any assistance! >  >  >  > - Matt >   K Didn't the 11/750 need something additional to be done with the bootdevice?  Like running WRITEBOOT?    ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:21:58 +0000 (UTC)P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply): Subject: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731?$ Message-ID: <bqurfm$8s3$1@online.de>  F Subject says it all.  There are 255 directories when numerology would I suggest 256.  OK, it's a matter of taste whether 256 or 255 is the magic  E number.  Still, if it's 255, I would expect 0 or, possibly, FF to be  / missing, and not D.  So what's special about D?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:49:53 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> > Subject: Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731?) Message-ID: <3FD321F3.F566DBE8@Omond.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:   G > Subject says it all.  There are 255 directories when numerology would J > suggest 256.  OK, it's a matter of taste whether 256 or 255 is the magicF > number.  Still, if it's 255, I would expect 0 or, possibly, FF to be1 > missing, and not D.  So what's special about D?    Unlucky 13 ?  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:13:43 +0100( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>> Subject: Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731?: Message-ID: <bqv983$26ugoe$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  G SYS10 is used on VAX/VMS for Standalone Backup. Wasn't SYSD used by the 2 system exerciser OS used by Digital Field Service?  L "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de>1 schreef in bericht news:bqurfm$8s3$1@online.de... G > Subject says it all.  There are 255 directories when numerology would J > suggest 256.  OK, it's a matter of taste whether 256 or 255 is the magicF > number.  Still, if it's 255, I would expect 0 or, possibly, FF to be1 > missing, and not D.  So what's special about D?  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:15:26 +0100( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>> Subject: Re: why is there no SYSD directory on DISK$ALPHA0731?: Message-ID: <bqv9ba$26l5f3$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>  K Correction: SYS10 is the default choice to configure LAVc nodes in, SYSE is  used by S.A.B.  5 "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl> schreef in bericht 4 news:bqv983$26ugoe$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de...I > SYS10 is used on VAX/VMS for Standalone Backup. Wasn't SYSD used by the 4 > system exerciser OS used by Digital Field Service? > , > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply"! <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> 3 > schreef in bericht news:bqurfm$8s3$1@online.de... I > > Subject says it all.  There are 255 directories when numerology would L > > suggest 256.  OK, it's a matter of taste whether 256 or 255 is the magicH > > number.  Still, if it's 255, I would expect 0 or, possibly, FF to be3 > > missing, and not D.  So what's special about D?  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:32:17 -0600( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>9 Subject: Re: Will VMS contribute to Microsoft's profits ? / Message-ID: <00A2A046.9D86808B.1@tachysoft.com>   N >Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM (198.151.12.104) by laurel.tachysoft.com (MX V5.35 >          AnHm) with SMTP for <wayne@tachysoft.com>; ) >          Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:02:11 -0600 ! >From: nobody <nobody@nobody.com>  >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms6 >Subject: Will VMS contribute to Microsoft's profits ?+ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     > 0 >http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/tech/fat.asp > L >Essentially, Microsoft wants $0.25 for every device built that uses the FATO >file storage design which Microsoft claims to have copyrighted in 1976 (didn't # >know Microsoft existed back then).  > & >(There is a cap of $250,000 dollars). > L >Does this mean that ever IA64 based VMS system will have to pay the royaltyN >twice ? Once for the IA64 hardware which understands FAT, and one for the VMSL >system which will store the boot media into a FAT partition enclosed into a >VMS file ?     J Royalties?  billy should have to pay a *penalty* for inflicting FAT on theJ world.  And for the rest of the shit contained in his "operating systems".O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== H Randolph Duke (in Trading Places): "Mother always said you were greedy."1    Mortimer Duke: "She meant it as a compliment!"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:07:32 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 9 Subject: Re: Will VMS contribute to Microsoft's profits ? / Message-ID: <vt6r369c7plvbf@news.supernews.com>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FD10828.D00CB45A@istop.com...  > John Vottero wrote: K > > I take it to mean that MS wants $0.25 for each preformatted flash card.  > G > I would think that it would be 0.25 for each device sold that has the  logic / > inside to format a drive in the "FAT" format.  > J > Do the flash card manufacturer would pay $0.25 for the one device it ahs toG > pre-format flash cards, and each PC/PDA/Camera manufacturer woudl pay  $0.25 K > per unit produced for the FAT file logic in the device. That is the way I  read it.  K The Flash cards cost more than the devices that read & write them.  I think K Microsoft wants $0.25 for each device and for $0.25 each preformatted Flash  card.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.677 ************************