1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 10 Dec 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 683       Contents: 128 Mb RAM for older Alpha. 5 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Is_Sun=B4s_N1_equal_to_HP=B4s_Nimbus?= G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory # Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.  Re: Carly as PHB: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  RE: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  RE: Ignorance is BLISS...  RE: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  RE: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: lib$spawn particulars  Re: lib$spawn particulars 8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 RE: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!4 Re: Looking for an HLR (CDMA200) solution under OVMS4 Re: Looking for an HLR (CDMA200) solution under OVMS Re: Mozilla cache behaviour G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. : Re: OpenVMS clusters give Windows, Unix thorough thrashing Re: OpenVMS org 5 Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software  Re: Passing var into F$SEARCH 5 Re: PDF writers (was: OSU http server & http headers) & Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp& Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp& Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp& Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp  Re: porting problems encountered  Re: porting problems encountered2 Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233. Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/2332 Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/2332 Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/2339 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 
 UCX$TELNET Re: UCX$TELNET! Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ? % Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?  Re: VMS ad February 1999 Re: VMS ad February 1999; Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:38:18 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> $ Subject: 128 Mb RAM for older Alpha.' Message-ID: <3FD721CA.47F0DCEF@aaa.com>    Hi.  If someone need it, it's here :   Q http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3064806166&category=11210&rd=1    Best Regards	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 03:26:49 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso)> Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Is_Sun=B4s_N1_equal_to_HP=B4s_Nimbus?== Message-ID: <f30679fb.0312100326.1ce92d04@posting.google.com>   1 I have this doubt ! Anyone could explain if its  & the same "architecture" of managent ? / Are these products equivalent to Tivoli, Patrol 4 or just "plug-ins" to leverage the OS environments ?     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:35:20 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGP Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory0 Message-ID: <00A2A267.E4F9959F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <b096a4ee.0312092132.603ab4aa@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:t >spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0312091036.61929093@posting.google.com>...[ >> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A2A142.2BF1ACB9@SendSpamHere.ORG>... s >> > In article <b096a4ee.0312081446.461d11d4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: ' >> > >Attention Guy Peleg! DCL Request:  >> > >P >> > >A lexical function that returns the .DIR version of the current directory: >> > > >> > >2 >> > >If you were in (or specified as a parameter) >> > >" >> > >    DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN.UTI] >> > > >> > >it would return  >> > >% >> > >    DISK$DATA1:[FELDMAN]UTI.DIR  >> > > >> > >2 >> > >If you were in (or specified as a parameter) >> > > >> > >    ROOTED_DISK:[000000] >> > > >> > >it would return  >> > >" >> > >    DISK$DATA1:[1.2.3]4.DIR  >> > >5 >> > >if ROOTED_DISK were DISK$DATA1:[1.2.3.4.].       >> > > >> > > >> > >Alan E. Feldman  >> >  A >> > A better request might be for something like F$FID_TO_NAME.  A >> > You could pass your filename to F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES to get the @ >> > DID and then you could pass the DID to F$FID_TO_NAME.  I'd @ >> > think a lexical like F$FID_TO_NAME would make DCL more use-? >> > ful than just a sinlge function to return directory names.  >>  / >> Good point. That would work fine. I like it.  >>   >> Alan E. Feldman > ? >On second thought, F$FID_TO_NAME wouldn't be of help for empty G >directories. What I'd really like is to be able to specify a directory  >in the form >  >    DISK:[A.B.C]  > D >where "DISK" can be a physical disk name, a logical disk name, or aB >rooted device logical name. (One could also, of course, specify aF >logical name that iteratively translates to any of those.) The methodE >you outlined requires a file in said directory and the specification E >of said file, and there may not be a file in the directory, in which % >case something else would be needed.   ' Open a temporary file in said directory 8 F$File_Attributes("[<said_directory>]<temp_file>","DID")- Close/Delete temporary file in said directory  F$FID_to_Name(the_DID)   --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.    K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 08:01:51 -0800% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips) P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0312100801.50ff5cb4@posting.google.com>   b Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net> wrote in message news:<3FD61FFB.1690B1EA@sture.homeip.net>... > Dave Greenwood wrote:  > > W > > In a previous article, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: t > > > In article <b096a4ee.0312081446.461d11d4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:) > > > > Attention Guy Peleg! DCL Request:  > > > > R > > > > A lexical function that returns the .DIR version of the current directory: > > > >  > > > G > > >    In general, build scripts would be easier to write and to port B > > >    from UNIX if DCL had a lexical function that would append1 > > >    a subdirectory name to a directory name.  > > > ; > > >    e.g. in UNIX make files we often find things like:  > > >       base = able " > > >       next_dir = $base/baker- > > >       next_next_dir = $next_dir/charlie  > > >  > > >    which gives: " > > >       next_dir is able/baker/ > > >       next_next_dir is able/baker/charlie  > > > I > > >    To do that in DCL, you have to keep adding and removing . and [] N > > >    or <> in all the right places.  It would be convinient if we could do > > >    something like: > > >  > > >      base = "[.able]" 5 > > >      next_dir = f$subdirectory(base,"[.baker]") @ > > >      next_next_dir = f$subdirectory(next_dir,"<.charlie>") > > >  > > >    from which you'ld get: & > > >      next_dir is "[.able.baker]"3 > > >      next_next_dir is "[.able.baker.charlie]"  > >  >  > I agree that would be useful.  > G > There's possibly an argument for converting instances of ".][" within " > a dev/dir string to "." as well. >     D I vote for simply dropping out all instances of "][" and "><" duringB the parse. Then one could use a $DISK1:[ABLE][.BAKER] construct as9 well as the currently valid rooted $DISK1:[ABLE.][BAKER].     DL Phillips   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 10:27:33 -0800. From: fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br (Fabio Cardoso), Subject: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.< Message-ID: <f30679fb.0312101027.803eb62@posting.google.com>   So,   > After all these Itanium migration efforts, nobody had the idea< to improve the Graphics of OpenVMS ? New Graphical Terminal  technoloy - mouse  based ?    > As the IT world catches the own tag, I dont doubt we will haveD in the near future, instead of Metaframe Servers, dedicated hardware; to serve graphical terminals. Like a (Fabio is dreamin...)  A HP Terminal Server or Graphic Front End Processor, etc ... etc... < Dont forget HP will  sell the Clear Cube clones (PC Blades).= This looks like a return to the origns. But like the PC based / blades, we should have a Graphical Metal box !     Regards    FC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:44:59 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Carly as PHB ) Message-ID: <3FD6B2B9.4B98B4BF@istop.com>    John Smith wrote: D > "We talked [publicly last year] about aligning HP services and ourN > enterprise systems sales teams more effectively together," Fiorina said. "WeK > had multiple selling promotions into our key enterprise customers. We are L > continuing that evolution, aligning multiple selling motions into a single6 > selling motion."   { this is definitive *PHB* talk }    I Could this mean that HP intends to have a single sales force that will be K know-it-alls for Tandem, VMS, HP-UX, Linux and Windows ? Will this have any  impact on the VMS ambassadors ?   N Having a Unix or Windows centric sales force will not help VMS. But it may not+ be so different from the current situation.   G > "What you're really going to see us doing is focusing on accelerating  > growth," Fiorina said,    M That is wall Street speak for "I don't care about being profitable because we M know that as long as we have nice growth numbers Wall Street will continue to  support me.   I > "It enables us to sell the Adaptive Enterprise much more successfully,"   H Read: our new sales force will try to sell wintel blade servers down the% throaths of our enterprise customers.   L > "This is not a company stuck," Fiorina said. "This is a company that leads2 > in virtually every category in which we compete,  L Sorry Carly. Yours is an enterprise company in hibernation, waiting for IA64- to become attractive to commercial customers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:05:59 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 2 Message-ID: <NcmdnZNdy5iPY0ui4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message6 news:cf15391e.0312081306.b7d4d6d@posting.google.com...7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<saidnW1SOPlYb06iRVn-vA@metrocast.net>...I > > Oh, dear - another press release that's a bit moldy around the edges.  > C > A tablespoon of bleach in a quart of water should kill that mold.  > F > I'm even sorrier at my delay in getting this particular announcementD > out to you, as I know you were eagerly waiting to see which vendor= > would get the bragging rights to 1 million TPC-C tpm first,   E Not really.  1) I knew about the result a couple of days after it was @ posted.  2) As I already noted, it doesn't say much for Itanic'sK capabilities (or perhaps Superdome's - take your pick) since it takes twice H as many Itanics to beat the POWER4+ system by a mere 30% (and, as I alsoL noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor POWER5J systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating in absoluteJ as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhanced Superdomes).    and it G > must have been even more of a disappointment than the late arrival of H > the news to see that it was HP, with that despicable Itanium chip, not& > IBM with Power, who got there first. > 
 > I see atL http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp?resulttype=noncluster&	 version=5 E > that HP occupies the top 3 slots for TPC-C (non-clustered) results, B > and 5 out of the top 10 slots, vs. only 3 in the top 10 for IBM.  L Hey, HP could have all 10 of the top 10 results if it tested enough variantsH of the same Superdome system.  And it would mean no more than the singleI best result it has posted (nor is anything more than the top 32-processor  IBM result significant).     And @ > the spot in the top 10 held by NEC is also an Itanium2 system.  I Which falls rather significantly far behind the IBM system using the same $ number of processors, one might add.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:55:18 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 3 Message-ID: <mpyWaSqI3hah@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0312091612.735d6d89@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<br4eec$l42$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>... ; >> When you can explain why TPC-C is a worthwhile benchmark = >> then you also get to brag about having the fastest number.  > G > HP didn't come up with TPC-C, the Transaction Processing Council did. / > They seem to feel it's a valuable tool.  From $ > http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/detail.asp > F > "TPC-C is based on a workload presented to the TPC two years ago andF > refined by a subcommittee of 16 members representing a cross section > of the industry. > ... > > TPC benchmarks also differ from other benchmarks in that TPCA > benchmarks are modeled after actual production applications and  > environments." > F > Complaints about the validity of a benchmark from a vendor when thatF > vendor's own systems don't perform well on the benchmark sounds like$ > the sour grapes of Aesop's fables.    = 	The benchmark is somewhat questionable.  Greg Pfister in "In > 	Search of Clusters" points out the "cluster-cheat" that is so> 	prevelant.  TPC council much to their credit break things oul: 	in clustered and non-clustered for our viewing pleasure.   C 	For locker room bragging rights, HP hits a million tpmC.  Using a   	Terabyte of memory.  A 	Maybe where it gets back to real world is when you look at 2 and E 	4 processor configs.  Suppose you want to run Oracle , your workload E 	is OLTP, you have a fixed budget, you would/could visit www.tpc.org  ? 	to get a good starting point on platform choice.  Assuming you ? 	aren't wedded to hardware/OS as a direction and numerous other 	 	factors.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:15:28 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 3 Message-ID: <4pJBb.10471$TZ6.2150@news.cpqcorp.net>    Andrew standard reply:  K "We suck at this.  So this benchmark sucks.  Wanna see a benchmark we don't H suck at, when we find one it will be meaningful, unlike this benchmark."  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:br4eec$l42$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > Keith Parris wrote: 9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<saidnW1SOPlYb06iRVn-vA@metrocast.net>... > > I > >>Oh, dear - another press release that's a bit moldy around the edges.  > >  > > E > > A tablespoon of bleach in a quart of water should kill that mold.  > > H > > I'm even sorrier at my delay in getting this particular announcementF > > out to you, as I know you were eagerly waiting to see which vendorF > > would get the bragging rights to 1 million TPC-C tpm first, and itI > > must have been even more of a disappointment than the late arrival of J > > the news to see that it was HP, with that despicable Itanium chip, not( > > IBM with Power, who got there first. > >  > > I see atU http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp?resulttype=noncluster&version=5 G > > that HP occupies the top 3 slots for TPC-C (non-clustered) results, I > > and 5 out of the top 10 slots, vs. only 3 in the top 10 for IBM.  And B > > the spot in the top 10 held by NEC is also an Itanium2 system. > : > And the point of all this is ??????????????????????????? > : > When you can explain why TPC-C is a worthwhile benchmark< > then you also get to brag about having the fastest number. > 8 > TPC-C is the WonderBread of benchmarks, how much value= > would you apply to being able to bake the best WonderBread.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:17:47 GMT 9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 3 Message-ID: <frJBb.10472$EZ6.1348@news.cpqcorp.net>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:NcmdnZNdy5iPY0ui4p2dnA@metrocast.net...  G > Not really.  1) I knew about the result a couple of days after it was B > posted.  2) As I already noted, it doesn't say much for Itanic'sG > capabilities (or perhaps Superdome's - take your pick) since it takes  twice J > as many Itanics to beat the POWER4+ system by a mere 30% (and, as I alsoG > noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor  POWER5L > systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating in absoluteL > as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhanced Superdomes). >   J I guess is begs the question that *if* it only takes 30% more POWER4+ thenL why hasn't IBM done it?  After all the 1 million mark is braggin rights.  MyJ guess is that you don't really know how the benchmark scales, and what the limitations are.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:15:23 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD 2 Message-ID: <kIKdnf-mednYnUqi4p2dnA@metrocast.net>  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message # news:3FD586B3.244AC402@istop.com...  > Bill Todd wrote:   ...   F > > 3.  At the time of the Alphacide, Compaq (knowing full well that a mergerJ > > with HP was imminent) committed to porting Tru64 to Itanic.  So eitherF > > Compaq lied knowingly, or HP 'agreed' and then immediately reneged > 2 > You cannot fault Compaq or Curly/Carly for this.  I I'm not:  look at the context.  I'm pointing out that this is yet another J example of why Keith's assertion that the plan laid out at the time of theH Alphacide has been followed faithfully and on schedule is pure bullshit.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:04:35 +0100 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <br6nj4$29ifqo$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>    JF Mezei wrote: F > is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a% > set dating from 1995 as I recall) ?   8 The Freeware 5.0 CD 1 has BLISS docs along with the kit.   cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:31:00 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Ignorance is BLISS...( Message-ID: <3FD6BD7F.989A4E1@istop.com>  H I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least toM understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new piece - in a different language to interface with it.   # What language is Bliss closest to ?   H is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a setL dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time tryingC to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:59:01 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...) Message-ID: <3FD6EE2F.F11D6DB2@istop.com>    Martin Vorlaender wrote:: > The Freeware 5.0 CD 1 has BLISS docs along with the kit.  M I guess I will have to take a look at it. Hopefully Bliss isn't as strange as  APL ;-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:57:11 +0100 - From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de> " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <br6u69$288e2t$1@ID-56200.news.uni-berlin.de>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Martin Vorlaender wrote:; >> The Freeware 5.0 CD 1 has BLISS docs along with the kit.  > D > I guess I will have to take a look at it. Hopefully Bliss isn't as > strange as APL ;-) :-)  ( Is there anything as strange as APL? ;-)  F The data types are a bit odd in Bliss. I do like the dot operator, andD that every statement is an expression, i.e. can be used as the right side of an assignment.  A I don't program in Bliss, I just skimmed through the docs at some  time.    cu,    Martin --  F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de F    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 03:43:15 -0800. From: martinkirby12@yahoo.co.uk (Martin Kirby)" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...< Message-ID: <224291b.0312100343.2ef4b15c@posting.google.com>  6 To me BLISS doesn't feel close to any other language.   D The documentation is on the freeware. I usually access it online at:  4 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware50/BLISS/  B Note that there are many different flavors of BLISS and if you areF coding in BLISS it is important to know which one you are using. E.g., 32 or 64, VAX or Alpha.   E I found it quite easy to understand existing BLISS code. Some areas I C have found tricky are where there is extensive use of MACROs, where B BIND is used heavily (this is a way of creating a local identifierA that references some part of or something referenced from another C identifier), or where I'm dealing with multiple threads and need to 6 understand exactly how VOLATILE and the like are used.   Martin Kirby  Z JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FD6BD7F.989A4E1@istop.com>...J > I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least toO > understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new piece / > in a different language to interface with it.  > % > What language is Bliss closest to ?  > J > is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a setN > dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time tryingE > to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:29:48 GMT 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <0lEBb.10432$rA6.6746@news.cpqcorp.net>   : My personal feeling is that Bliss is very close to Pascal.  F There is one rule you need to know about Bliss that will automatically qualify you L as a Bliss debugging master: "You either missing a dot or have an extra dot"   On a more serious note :  * X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X, X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in X   Guy 7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message " news:3FD6BD7F.989A4E1@istop.com...J > I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least toI > understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new  piece / > in a different language to interface with it.  > % > What language is Bliss closest to ?  > J > is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a setG > dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time  tryingE > to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:44:33 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...& Message-ID: <br74en$eq$1@lore.csc.com>   Guy Peleg wrote: > < > My personal feeling is that Bliss is very close to Pascal. > H > There is one rule you need to know about Bliss that will automatically
 > qualify you N > as a Bliss debugging master: "You either missing a dot or have an extra dot" >  > On a more serious note : > , > X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X. > X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in X    That sounds more like assembler.  . So is BLISS a high level assembly language ;-)   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:59:20 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: RE: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKECDIKAA.tom@kednos.com>   G PL/I is probably a better match, although it has been a long time since - I looked at Bliss or wrote a Pascal compiler.    >-----Original Message----- 6 >From: Guy Peleg [mailto:guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this]+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:30 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  >  > ; >My personal feeling is that Bliss is very close to Pascal.  > G >There is one rule you need to know about Bliss that will automatically  >qualify youC >as a Bliss debugging master: "You either missing a dot or have an   >extra dot"  >  >On a more serious note :  > + >X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X - >X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in X  >  >Guy8 >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message# >news:3FD6BD7F.989A4E1@istop.com... K >> I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least to J >> understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new >piece0 >> in a different language to interface with it. >>& >> What language is Bliss closest to ? >>K >> is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a set H >> dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time >trying F >> to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ? >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:55:34 +0000 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...8 Message-ID: <5d5etv8suueepr8kdqklarevk5hb4fn0fl@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:44:33 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:   >Guy Peleg wrote:  >>  = >> My personal feeling is that Bliss is very close to Pascal.  >>  I >> There is one rule you need to know about Bliss that will automatically  >> qualify youO >> as a Bliss debugging master: "You either missing a dot or have an extra dot"  >>   >> On a more serious note :  >>  - >> X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X / >> X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in X  > ! >That sounds more like assembler.  > / >So is BLISS a high level assembly language ;-)   J It can *look* a bit like that at first glance.  Fairly sure it was createdK to facilitate system programming (on the -10?) and was good enough for some A DEC staff to write much of some O/S in it back in the late 70s...   K I did find one quote somewhere with Google:  "I see C and I remember Bliss,  and I could weep."   --  : Better to be thought stupid than to speak and confirm it.    Mail john rather than nospam...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:44:35 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...' Message-ID: <3FD72343.9E9013C4@aaa.com>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Martin Vorlaender wrote:= > >> The Freeware 5.0 CD 1 has BLISS docs along with the kit.  > > F > > I guess I will have to take a look at it. Hopefully Bliss isn't as > > strange as APL ;-) :-) > * > Is there anything as strange as APL? ;-)  $ Is there anything strange with APL ?  	 Jan-Erik.  (Former APL programmer...)   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:39:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <CMrIH143QP0P@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3FD6BD7F.989A4E1@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: J > I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least toO > understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new piece / > in a different language to interface with it.  > % > What language is Bliss closest to ?  > J > is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a setN > dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time tryingE > to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ?   F    Do you know C?  At someone's request (I don't recall who) I put my G    "BLISS for C Programmers" on the Freeware CD.  It might be helpfull.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:56:14 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...) Message-ID: <3FD725FB.D9780EE3@istop.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:G >    Do you know C?  At someone's request (I don't recall who) I put my I >    "BLISS for C Programmers" on the Freeware CD.  It might be helpfull.     L Thanks, I will look for it. I downloaded the Bliss compiler and will installJ it in the next couple of days and will start to go trhough the doc whiel IH work on another project whose compile is measured in long minutes. (I amK getting fat sicne I automatically go to kitched to get a snack when i start  that compile :-)  M Thanks to the others who have responded as well. Looks like I will have to be  very careful with those dots.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:44:12 GMT F From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <0jGBb.10440$6D6.2551@news.cpqcorp.net>   G If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language Sensitive A Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in all 2 languages, but especially a new (to you) language.  @ BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypes will probably help a lot.   = Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it and ? porting to another language.  I always felt there was something > fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spell? words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and it A did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before  most other (any?) language did.    --  (  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:50:03 -0600 2 From: "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...6 Message-ID: <Xns944D640A9CCD9see2go4me@216.196.97.132>  = John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> enlightened us on 10 _ Dec 2003 with: s  m= > I did find one quote somewhere with Google:  "I see C and Iu$ > remember Bliss, and I could weep."  8 Try: http://www.paulgraham.com/thist.html Seems to be a 8 history of a Lisp variant. Bliss gets mentioned only in 	 passing. o   -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:57:08 -0800I# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>p" Subject: RE: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIECJIKAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----r >From: Bart Z. LedermanD7 >[mailto:lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com] + >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:44 AMS >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  >o >cH >If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language SensitiveB >Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in all3 >languages, but especially a new (to you) language.c >sA >BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypes  >will probably help a lot. > > >Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it and@ >porting to another language.  I always felt there was something? >fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spell @ >words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and itB >did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before  >most other (any?) language did.  3 I think it could be argued that PL/I did this 1967.r   >o >-- ) > B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Onlyn > 9 > Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission 9 > to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailingn > list of any kind.t >i6 > Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a6 > legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post. >m >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).uA >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003s >g --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:06:53 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e" Subject: RE: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEECKIKAA.tom@kednos.com>c  ? There was a bliss-mode lisp package under emacs, just google one
 bliss-mode   >-----Original Message-----e8 >From: -Andy- [mailto:see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com]+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:50 AMe >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  >u >A> >John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> enlightened us on 10  >Dec 2003 with:  > > >> I did find one quote somewhere with Google:  "I see C and I% >> remember Bliss, and I could weep."n >a9 >Try: http://www.paulgraham.com/thist.html Seems to be a a9 >history of a Lisp variant. Bliss gets mentioned only in a
 >passing.  >J >-Andy-  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-A >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003- >- ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Dec 2003 17:31:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...8 Message-ID: <br7l8o$87po$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  > Hmmmm......   Is there a BLISS Compiler available anywhere for the PDP-11?0   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:15:33 GMTp2 From: Bob WIllard <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...- Message-ID: <VwIBb.13853$8y1.56217@attbi_s52>    Tom Linden wrote:e   >  >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bart Z. Lederman8 >>[mailto:lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com], >>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:44 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi$ >>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS... >> >>I >>If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language SensitiveaC >>Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in alla4 >>languages, but especially a new (to you) language. >>B >>BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypes >>will probably help a lot.a >>? >>Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it andeA >>porting to another language.  I always felt there was somethingh@ >>fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spellA >>words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and itDC >>did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before ! >>most other (any?) language did.> >  > 5 > I think it could be argued that PL/I did this 1967.> >   A And FORTRAN perhaps ten years before that, although the degree of># portability was *far* from perfect.  -- > Cheers, BobR   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:43:20 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s" Subject: RE: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECNIKAA.tom@kednos.com>R   >-----Original Message-----d: >From: Bob WIllard [mailto:BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net]+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:16 AMD >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...c >y >m >Tom Linden wrote: >n >> a >>>-----Original Message-----  >>>From: Bart Z. Lederman 9 >>>[mailto:lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com] - >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:44 AMo >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >>>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  >>>  >>>eJ >>>If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language SensitiveD >>>Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in all5 >>>languages, but especially a new (to you) language.d >>>uC >>>BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypeso >>>will probably help a lot. >>> @ >>>Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it andB >>>porting to another language.  I always felt there was somethingA >>>fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spelllB >>>words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and itD >>>did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before" >>>most other (any?) language did. >> k >> V6 >> I think it could be argued that PL/I did this 1967. >> i >iB >And FORTRAN perhaps ten years before that, although the degree of$ >portability was *far* from perfect.  H I don't think so, because it was written in assembler.  The Multics PL/I= was written in PL/I, first commercial bootstrapping compiler.3   >--  >Cheers, Bob >. >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free..; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).tA >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003e >r ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:21:18 -0500u& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...8 Message-ID: <j7oetvgb3o69e3pv5ekvrnkrq2q00nji8m@4ax.com>  O On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:31:00 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote:p  I >I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least togN >understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new piece. >in a different language to interface with it. >x$ >What language is Bliss closest to ? > I >is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have a set_M >dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much time tryingpD >to reverse engineer the code to understand how the language works ?  P Others have referred you to the BLISS doc set, which is useful once you know theK language (that was my experience). BLISS (which I believe stands for Bill's N Language for Implementation of System Software -- or so I heard) was developedM originally at Carnegie Mellon and acquired by Digital and implemented for (atnL least -- this is where I've seen it) PDP-10, PDP-11, OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMSM Alpha. At the time I "switched" from a hardware development job to a softwaretM development job (in 1980) it was the first language that I learned on OpenVMStE (at the time, we were running VMS V2.3 IIRC) and we were using it for J development of a large data acquisition application at a chemical researchM facility. The design team of which I was a part participated in several field0O tests for new releases of BLISS-32, which is what we were using on our project.:  O Copies of Bill Wulf's (he is the Bill in BLISS) article from the December, 1971iN Communications of the ACM; and an overview / introduction to BLISS programmingJ session by Matt Madison (at that time of TGV) given at a DECUS in 1993 are$ available in Postscript format from:  F 	http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?BLISS-ARTICLE-PS andaA 	http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?BLISS-INTROi   I recommend them both to you.)I -------------------------------------------------------------------------tI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)hI -------------------------------------------------------------------------a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:25:59 GMTo& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <XyJBb.10475$S_6.9286@news.cpqcorp.net>    JF Mezei wrote:gJ > I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the very least toO > understand what an existing piece of software does so I can write a new pieces/ > in a different language to interface with it., > % > What language is Bliss closest to ?i  H To go along with others have said, at first glance when you see some of G the lexical keywords, you might think Pascal (BLISS has BEGIN/END just -E like Pascal).  In other places, it be closer to a glorified assembly mG language (the dot operator, LINKAGE, BIND, MAP, etc.)  In some places, fG it might remind of C with the ability for anything to be an expression sI (C isn't as symmetrical if you ask me).  In some cases, it is just BLISS cG (iterative/recursive macro expansions, the %QUOTE and %UNQUOTE lexical I% directives, default structures, etc.)u  G In general, you can do quite a bit with BLISS without visiting some of o the more interesting corners.I  G Also, watching people learning BLISS for the past 20 years, there will eE come a time after a few months where they come into my office with a  C huge smile saying "Hey, I found a bug in BLISS!"  While there have uI indeed been bugs in BLISS, 99% of the cases were user-errors from people g "finding" a new BLISS feature.  F If you have questions, just post 'em here. There are several of us in 0 the newsgroup that are expert BLISS programmers.     -- - John Reagan-' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:33:04 -0500w& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...8 Message-ID: <ljpetv497g4519oau173q1mevf5i9ea4c2@4ax.com>  F On 10 Dec 2003 17:31:05 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  ? >Hmmmm......   Is there a BLISS Compiler available anywhere forV >the PDP-11? >t >bill   P BLISS-16 (which we ran from about 1980 through 1986) was a cross-compiler hostedL on VMS. You did your compile on VMS, then copied the object files to (in ourM case, at least) an RSX-11/M system for "task building". I only vaguely recallIB doing this -- and maybe we used TKB on VMS, too, I don't remember.  M A few quick Googol searches don't turn up the BLISS-16 compiler anywhere, andeN the BLISS-32 (from freeware) compiler on my VAX system doesn't have any doc on, it. I don't know what Digital did with it...I -------------------------------------------------------------------------oI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comnI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)oI -------------------------------------------------------------------------o   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:20:02 +0100 (CET) % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> # Subject: J F M e z e i domain thefte8 Message-ID: <6b80c9e3fe89885b52b497d0ccdcca88@dizum.com>  J nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this% domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>y   Domain Name: NOBODY.COM   * Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:% Southport Technologies tdl@canada.comf 314 Queen Street South	 Suite 158e Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9H CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061   Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995.   Also report him to:o   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.comg   Jean-Francois Mezeir 86 Harwood Gateu Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLINGa   jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.coma jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cah "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>n& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>a Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>." Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>A' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>t" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>e' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>l( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>h' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>c! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>o  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>s Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>l$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>t! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>d  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>u% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>e$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>e& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>T% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>e& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>d' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>d( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>-' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>2% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>t$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>e" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>l& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>o) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>r' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>e" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>e* Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>o Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:22:26 GMT  From: "None" <none@nospam.org>' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain theftnB Message-ID: <mDIBb.9043$rP6.1776@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:6b80c9e3fe89885b52b497d0ccdcca88@dizum.com...L > nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this' > domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>B  ; I'll give you one thing . . . you're tenacious as all hell!n  4 Unfortunately, the FBI calls it - internet stalking.   Have a nice day!   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:50:05 +0100 (CET) % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>m' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain thefte8 Message-ID: <225cdf01aaa769bf2fd05a04fda8c900@dizum.com>   None <none@nospam.org> wrote:    >Have a nice day!w   Same to you, "Chas".  O Are you still flipping burgers since AA fired you for soliciting sex on the jobs5 from male passengers and airport workers down at MIA?H   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:34:46 GMTb1 From: "   Darrell Larose" <CXotaX348X@rXogers.co>b' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain theft I Message-ID: <aHJBb.29100$3Eb1.23347@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:225cdf01aaa769bf2fd05a04fda8c900@dizum.com... > None <none@nospam.org> wrote:s >p  J Nomen Nescio is Latin for name (nomen) Nescio (to be ignorant, be unaware,0 not know) hmmm seems to fit an anonymous poster.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2003 22:59:40 -0800o1 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer)n" Subject: Re: lib$spawn particulars= Message-ID: <477e0934.0312092259.19ab02c8@posting.google.com>e  U Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@glug.org> wrote in message news:<7gn0a1vq5g.fsf@gnufans.net>...4E > in this case the NOWAIT flag is used to be able to support multiplenJ > asynchronous DCL subprocesses (the so-called shell-in-a-buffer feature). >     F Not just that.  If you don't specify the NOWAIT flag, you hibernate inD supervisor mode.  This causes your entire user program to hang until: the subprocess completes.  That means if you are writing aF multi-threaded application (which I'll assume that emacs is), no otherD thread can be used/activated while the subprocess is running.  Thus,C you wouldn't be able to switch to a different buffer and continuing # editing while you had a shell open.l  * Quoting directly from the RTL LIB$ manual:  E "Unless the NOWAIT flags bit is set, the caller's process is put inton? hibernation until the subprocess finishes. Because the caller'stD process hibernates in supervisor mode, any user-mode ASTs queued forC delivery to the caller are not delivered until the caller reawakes.s@ Control can also be restored to the caller by means of an ATTACHA command or by a suitable call to LIB$ATTACH from the subprocess."i    
 joshua lehrer- factset research systems NYSE:FDS   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 12:12:47 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org" Subject: Re: lib$spawn particulars3 Message-ID: <21UdRGI9ooT7@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  P In article <7gu149vrk8.fsf@gnufans.net>, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@glug.org> writes:? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:o > 0 >> Just make sure sys$output and sys$command are >> what you want them to be. > 4 > thanks for the tip.  i had not thought about this. >  >> Do you map the PTY to anr >> emacs window? > J > yes, this is the so-called shell (asynchronous DCL)-in-a-buffer feature. > G > i notice that "logout/full" displays extra summary info.  would it beeJ > correct to say that the ast call and event flag setting occur *strictly* > after this output?  K The I/O operation that displays that logout information runs in the contextnD of LOGINOUT.EXE which runs within the subprocess.  Since the AST andA the event flag are triggered as a result of a process terminationnK mailbox message generated when the subprocess dies and since the subprocesseI dies only after LOGINOUT.EXE has run down and since all user mode I/O hasf= finished before LOGINOUT.EXE exits, YES, you have a guaranteerH that this summary information has displayed before the event flag is set or the AST delivered.-  E There is a potential gotcha.  The guarantee is that the I/O operationeH that generates the "logged out at -blah blah blah-" output has completedB from a VMS point of view.  Whether that output has actually becomeD visible at your physical display depends on the display hardware andF on the connectivity between it and the VMS box.  In particular, I know? of no guarantee that closing a channel to a LAT terminal device:E guarantees that all pending output has been delivered by the terminalRA server to the user's terminal.  Similarly, I know of no guaranteesB that closing a channel to a pseudo-terminal guarantees delivery of= all pending output to the program on the far end of the link.   : I do believe there is a reasonable expectation that I/O toA a VMS terminal device will be completed in the order queued (with @ some minor exceptions involving interleaved input and output and "breakthrough" messages).y  > It's been too long since I read that chapter in the I/O user'sE guide to know if that rises to the level of a guarantee.  But I thinke it does.   	JOhn Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:16:38 GMTM9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>vA Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!d3 Message-ID: <WxIBb.10460$IV6.6982@news.cpqcorp.net>a  H AlphaServers running VMS.  It was a very good quarter and beat everyones expectations by a wide margin.  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG news:G3NAb.216666$Fv8.141821@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...l > Keith Parris wrote:o8 > > "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> wrote in message/ > > news:<vspha6ahui51fa@corp.supernews.com>...e > >>  VMS is better, > >h > > I agree. > >w/ > >> but it's long slow death spiral continues.t > >oH > > Popular myth, but one definitely not supported by, for example, last > > quarter's sales figures. >4 >A) > Which sales figures would those be for?d) > Printer ink cartridges or Alphaservers?  > Inkjet paper or VMS licences? ' > Laser toner or VMS support contracts?i >s >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:32:46 -0800p# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>nA Subject: RE: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid! 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGECMIKAA.tom@kednos.com>u  ) Fred,  where are those figures published?m   >-----Original Message----- ? >From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com] + >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:17 AMo >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid! >t >nI >AlphaServers running VMS.  It was a very good quarter and beat everyones  >expectations by a wide margin.t > / >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messagefH >news:G3NAb.216666$Fv8.141821@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >> Keith Parris wrote:9 >> > "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> wrote in message-0 >> > news:<vspha6ahui51fa@corp.supernews.com>... >> >>  VMS is better,g >> >
 >> > I agree.e >> >0 >> >> but it's long slow death spiral continues. >> >I >> > Popular myth, but one definitely not supported by, for example, last  >> > quarter's sales figures.r >> >>* >> Which sales figures would those be for?* >> Printer ink cartridges or Alphaservers?  >> Inkjet paper or VMS licences?( >> Laser toner or VMS support contracts? >> >> >e >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.=; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com)."A >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003E >s ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:10:55 -0500i* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>= Subject: Re: Looking for an HLR (CDMA200) solution under OVMSf( Message-ID: <3FD6AABF.995616D@istop.com>   "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote:I >         I looking for an HLR solution under the OpenVMS for 3G/CDMA2000-  > network. Is there some thing ?  I Does Russia have some of the proprietary CDMA networks ? I thought Russia1 would have been GSM.  M Since CDMA2000 is the property of Qualcomm, you might wish to contact them to X see who has paid the royalties to design software that connects to their infrastructure.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:47:38 +0300i: From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev{at}DeltaTelecom{dot}RU>= Subject: Re: Looking for an HLR (CDMA200) solution under OVMSi3 Message-ID: <2B33E223C23DA206101C5EF0E1E8906B@nntp>t   JF Mezei wrote:X > "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: > N >> I looking for an HLR solution under the OpenVMS for 3G/CDMA2000 network. Is >> there some thing ?  >  > L > Does Russia have some of the proprietary CDMA networks ? I thought Russia  > would have been GSM.D 	In Russia: NMT-450i, AMPS, D-AMPS, GSM 900/1800 and today CDMA2000 T (IMT-MC450)... CDMA networks has being built on Lucent, ZTE and Huaway equipments...M 	We run at the time HLR from Lucent, but our company expanding a presence in  L other regions and we need really robust solution, since our company run own M buisness on OpenVMS (the Delta Telecom is the first USSR/Russia mobile phone 0; operator) we prefer to save our investment to the platform.c   > O > Since CDMA2000 is the property of Qualcomm, you might wish to contact them to K >  see who has paid the royalties to design software that connects to theirq > infrastructure.l 	Thanks.     -- rF + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .................................+D Delta Telecom Inc., NMT-450i, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operatorE Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 116-3222zF +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only +   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:36:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e$ Subject: Re: Mozilla cache behaviour3 Message-ID: <0zbQ1SRs0fog@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  U In article <JavBb.46843$bC.5641@clgrps13>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:u > D > According to the security audit, each time Mozilla is started the H > <user>$CDEnnnn process attempts to delete the CACHE.DIR file from the J > SYS$LOGIN:[_MOZILLA.DEFAULT.nnnnnnnn_SLT] directory.  However, the file I > protections created by the Mozilla installation procedure do not allow ) > its owner to delete it, i.e.:a >   G    I recommend you report this to Bugzilla.  There should be a Bugzillas    button on your browser.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2003 23:16:47 -0800b7 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)-P Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.< Message-ID: <8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>   Dear Sir or Madam:  A This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againiB about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position?   Regards, Daryl Jonesg    q soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) wrote in message news:<f401eb7f.0312091259.bb80cb9@posting.google.com>...lF > Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. D > Qualified candidates should send resume and salary requirements toC > Adrienne Jones at adjones@hrblock.com.  No relocation please.  Nol > agencies please. >  >  >  > JOB SUMMARY ?  > D > Provide system administration for Electronic Filing Systems' (EFS)H > servers running OpenVMS, which includes managing third-party products,> > supporting EFS applications, monitoring system availability,C > monitoring system resources and performance, providing productionhH > support, and planning for future business needs. Work with appropriateB > departments and business partners to manage the OpenVMS systems' > network configuration. > * > ESSENTIAL DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES ?  > D > 1.	Maintain the OpenVMS environment, which includes installing andE > configuring new servers, reconfiguring existing servers, setting upc8 > user accounts and monitoring system logs and resourcesC > 2.	Manage the Storage Area Network, which includes installing and H > configuring new storage, reconfiguring existing storage and monitoring& > storage availability and performanceA > 3.	Maintain third-party products, which includes installing andsF > configuring new products and setting up user access to the products.H > 4.	Maintain EFS host application environments, which includes buildingG > and configuring new areas, reconfiguring existing areas, and managing  > system resources..D > 5.	Review OpenVMS patches and releases to make recommendations forD > scheduling updates to keep the operating system current while alsoH > maintaining stability. Review third-party product patches and releasesF > to make recommendations for upgrades and ensuring compatibility withB > OpenVMS versions. Review OpenVMS updates and third-party product@ > updates with Development Team to ensure compatibility with EFS > applications.uH > 6.	Monitor automatic processes and perform procedures to assure systemH > and EFS application data are properly backed-up.  Review processes andC > procedures to ensure appropriate coverage and ability to recover.eF > 7.	Perform daily, weekly, and other periodic tasks for administeringB > the EFS systems.  Work with appropriate departments and businessG > partners to schedule user-affecting tasks.  Report status of tasks to-C > the Technology Delivery Manager.  Create and maintain document off > these tasks.H > 8.	Monitor system availability and performance.  Develop and implementG > automated system monitoring procedures.  Serve as primary contact foreA > system availability issues.  Work with appropriate departments,"B > vendors, and business partners to configure and test for optimal > system performance.tG > 9.	Perform analysis, design, development, testing, and implementationl@ > of operational jobs to support production systems. Resolve and6 > document solutions to production operation problems.H > 10.	Work with appropriate departments to develop and document EFS hostD > application build, testing, and release process.  Perform tasks in > this process as determined.rH > 11.	Develop technical standards and create guidelines to implement andE > track OpenVMS system, third-party product, and EFS host application.
 > changes.F > 12.	Create and maintain OpenVMS system and third-party configurationF > documentation. Work with the Development Team to create and maintainH > EFS host application configuration documentation for all environments.= > 13.	Remain current on the latest operating system releases, / > third-party tools, and hardware capabilities.tD > 14.	Work with other departments, business partners, and vendors as@ > needed to support application development, system testing, and > production operations.D > 15.	Work with other departments, business partners, and vendors toE > develop plans and make recommendations for updating, improving, andl2 > streamlining the current operating environments.A > 16.	Create and update periodic status reports and track time on 
 > project. >  >  > Minimum Requirements > B > 1.	Bachelor's degree in Computer Science or Computer InformationH > Systems, or the equivalent through a combination of education and work
 > experience.e: > 2.	Three years experience with OpenVMS operating system.< > 3.	Experience with relational database management systems.4 > 4.	Experience with transaction processing systems.> > 5.	Knowledge of computer operations and experience providing > application support.? > 6.	Ability to work independently as part of a team with otherd( > developers and with other departments.< > 7.	Demonstrated organizational and prioritization skills. ? > 8.	Proven creative, analytical and detail oriented abilities. G > 9.	Effective written and oral communication skills, including abilityr- > to clearly convey complex technical issues.i   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 04:08:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eP Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.3 Message-ID: <YVEDf$DysToB@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  v In article <8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes:  C > This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againcD > about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position?  1 Or a problem with time running in reverse ?   ;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 08:03:03 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) P Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.3 Message-ID: <osoq43cSX9q1@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  v In article <8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes: > Dear Sir or Madam: > C > This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againmD > about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position? >   : 	Sharp-eyed observers would note this was here a year ago:  l http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9059bf6b.0212040418.c286c03%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain  ? 	Part of the "problem" is it is local candidates only.  That oro' 	re-locate yourself to Ohio - Columbus.    				Robv  
 > Regards,
 > Daryl Jones  >  > s > soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume) wrote in message news:<f401eb7f.0312091259.bb80cb9@posting.google.com>...kG >> Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.  E >> Qualified candidates should send resume and salary requirements toiD >> Adrienne Jones at adjones@hrblock.com.  No relocation please.  No >> agencies please.s >> 6   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:01:29 -0800- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume):P Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0312100701.6f59e0f1@posting.google.com>c  { jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>...  > Dear Sir or Madam: > C > This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againID > about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position? > 
 > Regards,
 > Daryl Joneso  ? We had filled this position.  As I am unfamiliar with the legalnD implications, it is best for me to say just that the position is nowF open again.  I can tell you that IMHO the expectations for the job are not unreasonable.o  @ The company is H&R Block.  This position is working on a missionA critical application for the industry leader in a stable industryd, [nothing is sure but death and *taxes* :) ].   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:48:59 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>C Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters give Windows, Unix thorough thrashinge: Message-ID: <MCELKPMOKPMNDNKJNIONEEEDCHAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Andrew, why did you write this  H > Incedentally eBays availability over the last couple of years has been( > very good, they now have Sun clusters.  P AFAIK Ebay did have a few downtimes since the do use Suncluster. The last one isP not fare away. The longest was 72 hours. Do you know how many OpenVMScluster you could buy for the lost money?e   Also you did write:l  B > Look that isn't what the TechWise study measured, read it before? > posting. None of your points have any relevance at all to thed" > value or otherwise of the study.  M AFAIK as I know the tile of the Email is: OpenVMS clusters give Windows, Unix  thorough thrashing.o0 Why should this have nothing to do with cluster?  P You are right, that the AlphaServer with is at position four of the top 500 is aI True64 cluster. But internal Benchmarks (including Oracel) did show, thatdJ OpenVMS ticks a little bit faster then True64. Compaq did not publish thisO values, because the would like to sell True64. My question about that, would be'! never answered by Compaq leaders.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:01:06 GMTn9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>e Subject: Re: OpenVMS org3 Message-ID: <CbJBb.10466$RY6.7434@news.cpqcorp.net>S  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87wu9ajc1g.fsf@prep.synonet.com...g2 > mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes: > D > > Just imagine: What would happen if HP decided that Itanium wouldC > > never make it to mainstream and spin OpenVMS off OpenVMS corp ?i >iC > > How many would there be left ? What would be the future of it ?nG > > Would it bring Alpha back ? Would charon-vax nail it ? Who would bed > > the competitors ?d >iH > hp do not want the prospect of having to compete with an agressive VMSH > compeditor. So first step is to run VMS into the ground so there is no& > revinue base for them to build from. >   L OK.  First of all, VMS != AlphaServers.  So it won't "bring back Alpha".  ToH capitalize a company capable of resuming Alpha chip *and* platforms is aJ huge undertaking - and I can't see the business model for it at this time.  F You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away a, valuable income stream - so it's not likely.  I There have been many points in the past that I think this might have been-J useful, now isn't one of them.  There may be some point in the future (theI end of this decade perhaps) when the time may be ripe again.  The companyfF would have to be profitable purely on license revenue from the OS, andK maintenance agreements with the HP service organization to provide bugfixes>0 (HP will want to hold onto the service revenue).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:30:48 +0100>* From: Paul Sture <nospam@sture.homeip.net>> Subject: Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software0 Message-ID: <3FD77468.36CD3CDB@sture.homeip.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > > In article <br4n7v$5ma$1@reader10.wxs.nl>,8 > >       "Patrick Coulier" <patrick@delight.be> writes: > >n! > >>No MicroSh*t in my car ever !  > >d > >nI > > I drive a 1978 MGB and it has an older distributor so it doesn't evenyG > > have the electronic ignition module.  Just drove it to GA and back, I > > 1500 miles.  Of course, I did take my laptop with me in the car.  :-)t > >g > 0 > I have a 1962 Austin Healey 3000 in the garage >   	 Nice one.s  H > Lights, indicators, ignition, starter motor, fan for heater (of sorts)F > Imobiliser !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (well itsC > just a switch really) thats about the sum total of the electronics
 > gizomos. > F > Odd, its great fun to drive and thats without SAT NAV, Self levelingD > suspension, sequential gears, traction control, power hood and allE > the other gubbins that car makers tend to add to their cars to makeV > them heavier and slower. > @ > A friend who bought a Lotus Elise recalled the conversation he > had with the Lotus salesman. > 5 > Friend, can you have electic windows on the Elise ?L0 > Salesman, do they make the car go any faster ?$ > Friend, how about power stearing ?3 > Salesman, would that make the car go any faster ?w > Friend, so no power hood5 > Salesman, I think you are beginning to get the ideag > C > The nice thing is that one of the UK auto mags recently ran theirwB > annual competition for the best handling car available on the UKE > market, competition was stiff, Porsche GTE, Caterham, Lotus, Subaru A > Impreza. Guess what won ? a Mazda MX-5 and the panel included a)F > current F1 driver plus a number of retired F1 drivers and designers. > @ > I say nice because the Mazda and the Healey come from the same > tradition of car design. > > > The idea that putting a windows OS in any of the cars in the< > competion would have enhanced its drivability is of course > laughable. >   $ From a review of the BMW 6 series at  T http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2003/10/24/emfbmw25.xml  F "Making an unwelcome reappearance is BMW's hopeless single-dial iDriveF control, which handles functions such as air-con, heating, navigation,G sound system and so on. BMW's response to complaints that the system isdG ludicrously complicated is to fit a modified escape button to return toiH the main menu. Simplified this might be, but iDrive is still frustratingD and the return-to-menu button is a bit of a nuclear option if you'veD just spent 10 minutes scrolling through screens trying to adjust theD navigation system. The computerised indicator system, like that of aG Vauxhall Vectra, is equally unpopular. Once activated, this decides howCD many flashes will be given according to who knows what, and like theF Terminator, it never, ever stops. Another useless piece of technology, then.s  F I could spend the rest of this page listing all the techno features ofG this car - a head-up display system that projects information on to therF windscreen, voice control of the navigation system etc -but, while BMWG is immensely proud of this stuff, little of it adds much to the driving3
 experience."       --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:29:27 GMTs3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)-& Subject: Re: Passing var into F$SEARCH3 Message-ID: <XcFBb.10436$MD6.6487@news.cpqcorp.net>1  7 In article <3FD6846C.C0506D49@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, .  H >> Isn't your TYPE statement going to try to TYPE FSP.LIS in the current
 >> directory?t  $ The TYPE statememnt need and & or 's       $ TYPE 'FSP' or     $ TYPE &FSPt   As I said, it was untested.w    J >> BTW, thanks for the DCL checker!   It's not perfect but it's far better- >> than the unaided eyeball.  I use it a lot.t   You are most welcome.t< Feel free to email me for the most recently updated version.   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:43:09 +0000s0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>> Subject: Re: PDF writers (was: OSU http server & http headers)4 Message-ID: <br6pri$2ta$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:s   > Chris Sharman wrote: > C >>As far as PDF compressibility goes, it's largely dependent on therG >>embedded graphics (mostly jpeg in our case) - zip saves mostly aroundyB >>6-20%, which doesn't seem worth the extra complication & loss of >>accessibility. > L > You should note that the official PDF creator from Adobe uses compression./ > Some of the lesser quality PDF writers don't.r  ! "Lesser quality" ! You're joking.LE We just abandoned 'real Adobe distiller' on reliability grounds, and vH started using ghostscript. Reliability has gone from unacceptable (hard B reboot required several times a week with distiller) to 100% (for C several weeks with ghostscript). As a bonus, performance is vastly  # better too, not to mention cheaper.m" Both run on the same Mac platform.F I'll admit I don't know what the effect on file size has been, if any.  J > Compressing JPGs or other already compressed media may in fact lead to a > bigger file size.    Yes.   Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 05:43:25 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)c/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcampe= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0312100543.3b2c377d@posting.google.com>t   Tom,  
 WELL SAID.   Suek      d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEBJIKAA.tom@kednos.com>...J > Martin, I didn't realize you wanted my permission to post my picture, as > unflatteringL > as it may have been.  I think you were bamboozled by a bunch of people who > don't M > have enough to do, to occupy their waking moments.  Under the circumstances- > under-L > which these pictures were taken, I would politely ask those who complained > to buggertD > off.  Under tort theory you must demonstrate harm.  This was not a > commercialN > enterprise.  So publish the pictures,  1st amendment and all.  In any event,
 > even though I > you don't need it you have my gratuitous permission to post my picture.d >  > Tom  >  > >-----Original Message-----e= > >From: Martin P.J. Zinser [mailto:zinser@zinser.no-ip.info]o+ > >Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:03 PMi > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2 > >Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp > >D > >  > >Martin P.J. Zinser wrote: > >> Hello,c > >>E > >> I've finally managed to put the pictures from the bootcamp up one
 >  my server.i > >>E > >> All the stuff: http://zinser.no-ip.info/vms/fun/bc2003-pic.htmlx0 > >>M > >> A cov/Info-VAX selection: http://zinser.no-ip.info/vms/fun/cov-pic.htmlxs > >> > >> > > K > >I won't quote the all the rest of the discussion, we had quite enough ofHD > >it. Some pictures are back at the addresses give above. I do have; > >explict permission of the persons involved to show them.e > >lH > >Additionally there is a picture of myself, not from the bootcamp, butF > >very recent, so I shall not remain faceless while others are shown. > >o5 > >To hopefully summarize and lay to rest this topic:f > >@K > >I do perfectly agree that explicitly asking first is "The right thing to.I > >  do (TM)". I will be better organized for the next bootcamp/DECUS/....J > >This time around I did not really intend to make that many pictures andI > >neglected this aspect while I was in Nashua. I tried to circumnavigateaE > >Newtons law of people ("People at rest tend to stay at rest and douE > >nothing. If exposed to a force they do not like, they tend to movenJ > >faster.") thinking is would be more likely for people to drop me a noteI > >if they do not want their picture shown than if they do. While I thinkmK > >the result here showed that the law holds the way I tried to overcome itn2 > >was wrong but I hope it has been corrected now. > >nJ > >So for what it is worth, if you been in Nashua have a look and rememberH > >the good times, if you have not, all the more reason to come the nextH > >time around (and I promise not to take a picture of you if you do not > >want to ;-) > >a > >Cheers, MartinT > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.y= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@C > >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003@ > >m > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:39:01 GMT<3 From: wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace)r/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp>0 Message-ID: <3fd73db1.377167662@news.eircom.net>  ! On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:12:46 GMT,a@ lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) wrote:  B >Actually, making private pictures of people visible to the public? >is illegal in all states of the U.S.A. that I am aware of, ande >has been for a long time. >m? >Selling, or even giving away, pictures of people without theirS9 >consent (without a proper release form) is also illegal.  >l> >I am less certain about the laws in Canada and other parts of) >the world, but they're probably similar.   E I'm a bit surprised at this... just to check, that means if I visitede@ America and took a photo of the Statue of Liberty, say, and gaveC copies to my friends, I'd technically be committing a crime? (Sincec> such a photo would likely contain a few fellow tourists in the foreground.)   -- c "Sore wa himitsu desu."o To reply by email, removeo the small snack from address.R! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacec   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:02:18 -0500g* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcampi) Message-ID: <3FD74382.F246C07B@istop.com>    Russell Wallace wrote:G > I'm a bit surprised at this... just to check, that means if I visitedoB > America and took a photo of the Statue of Liberty, say, and gave? > copies to my friends, I'd technically be committing a crime? -  M Sometimes the laws in the USA are designed to help keep the lawyers well fed.rK So yes, you take a snapshot, and you can then expect some ambulance chasing6K lawyer to slap you with some lawsuit. And because of that, you then have to  hire another lawyer.  L They figured that with all the japanese tourists constantly taking pictures,F the lawyer community could be quite rich). Lawyers are like rats, theyI naturally regulate their numbers based on how much business there is.  By C increasing the business opportunities, it allows them to reproduce.a  N Remember that the USA is the country where you can win millions when you spill5 coffee on your lap and then sue the coffee vendor ...:   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:25:20 GMT0" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp"0 Message-ID: <00A2A2A1.2BAFF118@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3FD74382.F246C07B@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Russell Wallace wrote:-H >> I'm a bit surprised at this... just to check, that means if I visitedC >> America and took a photo of the Statue of Liberty, say, and gaveh@ >> copies to my friends, I'd technically be committing a crime?  >oN >Sometimes the laws in the USA are designed to help keep the lawyers well fed.  
 Sometimes?    L >So yes, you take a snapshot, and you can then expect some ambulance chasingL >lawyer to slap you with some lawsuit. And because of that, you then have to >hire another lawyer.s >.M >They figured that with all the japanese tourists constantly taking pictures,sG >the lawyer community could be quite rich). Lawyers are like rats, theyu  I Law(lie)yers are rats!  I prescribe a warfarin and arsenic cocktail hour - for the entire plague.   --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.   gK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" u   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 08:19:36 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)) Subject: Re: porting problems encountered = Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0312100819.403a906b@posting.google.com>'  > Just out of curiosity, _IS_ this for an assignment at school?   F If so, asking on a newsgroup was a good idea.  I wish I could have hadF a resource like the Internet when I was in school.  Again, I think youE would have done better on a C programming newsgroup rather than here.a (or did you ask there, too?)  F Because you did not get it out of a book does not make it less valid.    Regards,	 /RC Bryane    l "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> wrote in message news:<vtaa5iiti7jd72@corp.supernews.com>...L > Send me the name and e-mail of your professor, and, the exact statement ofH > this assignment, and, I will be happy to forward the correct answer to > him/her directly.e > 
 > Regards, >  > Brad McCusker- > 8 > "navin_2016" <navin_2013@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message8 > news:268bf130.0312080455.b31cf9f@posting.google.com... > > Hi, I > >    Can somone please describe the problems one would face when we tryrJ > > to port a software written in C to another platform some of them being* > > endianness ,alignment,data types etc ? > >oG > > It would be very helpful if you could state the solution along withtC > > problem .Also can you please give me some pointers and links to ; > > documents so that porting can be  easily accomplished ?, > > 	 > > Navina > > -e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:06:09 -0500 (EST)p+ From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu>r) Subject: Re: porting problems encountered H Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58-035.0312101153220.4440@unix44.andrew.cmu.edu>  G is it just me or are people getting tired of clueless folks just asking C other people to figure things out for them apparently _before_ theyiK even _try_ to spend more than 5 seconds on it themselves? this is analogoustE to the kneejerk response so many people have these days to 'research'EM something by spending a minute looking at the results of a google search, ande= give up if they don't find anything on the first page or two. 4 no need to think about it! the answer is on the web!
 just ranting,  isildura    % On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, navin_2016 wrote:h   > Hi,rG >    Can somone please describe the problems one would face when we trymH > to port a software written in C to another platform some of them being( > endianness ,alignment,data types etc ? > E > It would be very helpful if you could state the solution along withxA > problem .Also can you please give me some pointers and links to 9 > documents so that porting can be  easily accomplished ?h >b > Navine > -y >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:46:03 +0000e0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>; Subject: Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233e4 Message-ID: <br6q0r$2ta$2$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk>   Phillip D. Williams wrote:   > HellomL > When trying to install VMS 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 with 64megs and a > RZ29 I get the following > errorp2 > SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=042 > Improperly handled condition, image exit forced./ > This happens  with  VMS 7.1, 7.2-1 and 7.3-1.n9 > Before the system starts the console the cdrom (dka500)-. > will go into a mount verify. I am at a lose.  D Check out the installation instructions & ensure you have the right  firmware version loaded.   Chrisb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:31:07 -0700o6 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net>7 Subject: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233i0 Message-ID: <CLqdndKxBo8ZR0uiRVn-jw@comcast.com>   HelloGJ When trying to install VMS 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 with 64megs and a RZ29 I get the following errorb0 SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=040 Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.- This happens  with  VMS 7.1, 7.2-1 and 7.3-1.i7 Before the system starts the console the cdrom (dka500) , will go into a mount verify. I am at a lose. tksp phillip    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:50:02 -0500f* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>; Subject: Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233s( Message-ID: <3FD6DE0A.DDD7CEA@istop.com>  L > When trying to install VMS 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 with 64megs and a > RZ29 I get the following > errorx2 > SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=042 > Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.    N Can you be more descriptive on exactly when this message appears ? What is the( message that appeared just before that ?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 10:47:29 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0312101047.7f97a293@posting.google.com>   n "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<CLqdndKxBo8ZR0uiRVn-jw@comcast.com>... > Hello1L > When trying to install VMS 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 with 64megs and a > RZ29 I get the following > errorw2 > SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=042 > Improperly handled condition, image exit forced./ > This happens  with  VMS 7.1, 7.2-1 and 7.3-1.i9 > Before the system starts the console the cdrom (dka500) . > will go into a mount verify. I am at a lose. > tksl	 > phillipr  9 I have 7.1-1H2 and 5.2 firmware running on those and havet not had any problems ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:51:17 -0500o* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday) Message-ID: <3FD6B432.33AED42C@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote:eB > TruClusters and AdvFS have been demonstrated running in a 2-node > cluster on HP-UX 11i.-    J That is equivalent to VMS booting just enough to set the date for that VMS= first boot contest. Still years away from commercial reality.a  M And it isn't just the core OS that must boot with the Tru64 goodies, but also K lots of middleware that must then start to make use of those new facilities3K (and initially ensure they continue to run). And then all the applications.     L Will Oracle recompile its Tru64 version onto HP-UX or will Oracle modify its; HP-UX version to make use of the newly available features ?r   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:23:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <GPMh$LR07gnA@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <br4lvu$nkp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:  I > It may suprise you then to know that the UK NHS who are Europes largestn? > employer with over 1 million employees are running a trail tolF > replace Windows with Sun's JDS which is based on SuSE Linux and thatI > the UK's Office of Government Commerce is also trialing JDS for anothery# > 500,000 desks for civil servants.   A    And while Sun's SPARC falls behind it's rivals, it's sales and0D    marketing staff clearly knows something about how to do business.  2    Sun is working with WalMart, proposing that itsB    Gnome/Java/OpenOffice (JDS) system be used to fulfill WalMart's@    desire for a cheaper mass market PC.  Sun is pricing JDS at a&    fraction of the price of MS Office.  H    Now that's they way to go after the "software for the masses" market.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:45:20 GMTo& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <0fletv8s9212bk0uq8uic1d5bo7md8o1h8@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:32:01 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:rK >> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:12:51 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>t	 >> wrote:. >>>tO >>>Sun has no motivation to cripple its own products. It is the sale to neither- >>>Microsoft nor Intel.3 >> - >>  M >> Which actually only means that Sun has no other alternative at this point.l >> c >b" >But you also know that is untrue. >n9 >Heard of SPARC64 heard of Opteron heard of CMT these arel
 >all options.<  1 Cool!  Give me the part numbers and pricing.....     >e3 >You really arn't doing well on this thread are you   J Prove me wrong.  Let me order a full range of systems and applications for those other options.  H The difference is that CPQ/HPQ had many platforms that are/were actuallyH shipping.  They needed to streamline the business as much as possible to meet the BOD's business goals.  D How many product lines does Sun actually have shipping?  90% plus isE probably Solaris, with maybe some Linux in there too (note, this is a4J wild-assed guess, not trying to throw out some highly disputable figures).J That is NOT the same thing as having MPE, Tru64, HP-UX, Tandem/NSK, Linux,I plus Windows-based platforms.  With perhaps 6 hardware platforms to worryaG about (MPE-based platforms, VAX support with multiple OS, Alpha supportiK with at least 3 OS, PA-RISC, Tandem MIPS, AMD desktops, Intel desktops, anddH Intel servers (Intel having both 32-bit and 64-bit varieties).  That's aD LOT of combinations to architect, design, manufacture, support, etc.   >oH >> HP is in a completely different business position because it has manyJ >> products in many areas (several server & OS platforms, peripherals, and >> great SAN technology) >> t > A >No HP has a great printing business all the rest is just baggage 3 >and HPS SEC filings only serve to illustrate this.   I Note that none of the platform combinations mentioned above even includesyD the imaging and printing business.  Not even teh enterprise storage,J managed services, and consulting businesses.  Sorry, but comparatively SunK is a one-trick pony.  It's field of market is so much more narrowly focusede< on Solaris (though Java is also a good business, I suppose).   >> wQ >>>HP has every motivation to cripple Alpha because they want a cosy relationshipi" >>>with both Intel and Microsoft.  >>   >> lI >> And, perhaps, they also realize that having multiple server design andgL >> manufacturing groups is a waste of resources (there's LOTS of overhead toL >> manage the separate businesses).  Bringing all OS platforms to one serverM >> line will allow the company to invest resources in a more focused fashion,p$ >> and all OS platforms can benefit. >> c > ( >So how similar is a DL580 to a rx5600 ? >  >Same OS's no *s& >Same CPU architecture no IA32 vs IA64- >Same Chipsets no the DL uses the Serverworks,( >chipset the rx5600 uses HP zx1 chipset.  J How about Tandem MIPS + Alpha + PA-RISC all moving to a single server line> of 64-bit computing on IA64.  You think that's small potatoes?  F Moving to two lines:  IA32 and IA64 is a HUGE consolidation of product lines.  ? Surely the savings of eliminating all the duplicate management,sK development, manufacturing, consulting, support, sales, etc. isn't all thatp difficult to grasp?w   >V< >So how are you going to "focus" engineers onto two entirely6 >different platforms with very very little shared IP ?  ( Um.... by eliminating at least 3 others?     >eA >The fact that you may or may not have new customers buying Alphak? >boxes is irrelevant, if they really are new then they were notc? >the ones who were let down by Compaq/HP's non delivery against < >commitments. The people really impacted were the people who? >built a platform strategy based on commitments from Compaq andu@ >HP which havn't been honoured they are your existing customers.  K Follow a line of thought beyone just a single point.  People who argue thatMH their business was impacted by the announcement are blowing FUD (most ofK them, anyway).  The fact that there are new customers proves that the alphaa. delivery doesn't necessrily impact a business.  E For most customers, the alpha delivery changes don't invalidate theirmD current, or even their 5-7 year investments; and thus there was veryI little, if any, measurable business "let down" from the delivery changes. K The evidence to support that includes things like:  a)  PDP-11 customes are H still running long after the platform was shutdown; b) VAX customers areH still running long after the platform was discontinued; c) new Alpha andG Tru64 UNIX customers are climbing onto the platform because it deliversgE their business needs into the foreseeable business future; and d) the,I AlphaServer platform, with it's ability to run very large configurations,yK will continue to provide growth and supportability for a very long time (int business terms).  C Again, I'm sure one could always find edge cases that are adverselyeF affected by the Alpha delivery changes.  But apparently that's not the predominant business case.   >r> >You are well on the way to joining Rob as the person with the4 >highest spin quotient on this newsgroup keep it up. >o  D No spin necessary.  Just look at the evidence of the affects on realH business cycles.  If you can measure how the Alpha delivery has affectedH most customers' businesses, please provide this information.  I am fullyI willing to accept contrary analysis in the face of real data.  But within J the realm of data that I have access to so far, there's no support for all* the doomsday FUD that's been spewed forth.   --- jlsI0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)l   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:20:38 GMTo9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <WtJBb.10473$f_6.4242@news.cpqcorp.net>e  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>t; wrote in message news:br4fbl$leq$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...e > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"l' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>e? > > wrote in message news:br1knm$jrv$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...  > >  > >>Keith Parris wrote:0 > >>: > >>>JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message > >f) > > news:<3FCFB81D.F75699CC@istop.com>...n > >iL > >>>>Based on comments I have heard here, it seems to me that there is very > >9
 > > little > >1L > >>>>cross polination between the VMS and Tandem/NSK folks as well as HP-UX > >  > > with > >o  > >>>>regards to systems design. > >>>d > >>>gE > >>>VMS, NSK, and Tru64 share IP stack code.  HP-UX will, of course,oD > >>>benefit from VMS Cluster technology by way of TruClusters code. > >>>- > >>C > >>Ummm are you really really sure about TruCluster making it intov: > >>HP-UX, at the moment the project doesn't look to safe. > >> > >n > >oL > > Yes.  Since I see lots of the traffic on AdvFS and TruClusters - you may beK > > listening to sources of NIH - *you* shouldn't put too much faith or FUD@ into	 > > them.( > >  > >) >iD > Ohh dear, the fact that this information surfaced in a letter fromI > Rich Marcello to your customers is going to rather ruin you point isn'tt > it.n >h@ > AdvFS and TruCluster require HP-UX 11i v3 the letter says that) > 11i v3 has been delayed by over a year.o >?K > >>>The designers of Itanium systems have been very helpful and interested 7 > >>>in meeting the needs of OpenVMS in system designs.  > >> > >rH > > Unfortunately, because of FUD from people like Andrew - we sometimes feel' > > compelled to point out the obvious.  > >u > D > Unfortunately because people like you Fred fail to check the factsC > before posting, you end up committing the tried and trusted error,? > for any member of the choir of describing uncomfortable factse	 > as FUD.t >  > Your mistake again.j >s  J No.  You are equating the delay with a lack of will to do it.  In the end,E the magnitude of the challenge required the schedule to be replanned.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:24:06 GMTd9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>fB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <axJBb.10474$s_6.1638@news.cpqcorp.net>w  7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagee# news:3FD58B1F.BE20CE61@istop.com...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >nC > DECwrite failed because Digital refused to price its workstations D > competitively with PCs andprovide real marketing for its products. >h  D DECwrite failed, because DECwrite failed.  Pure and simple.  PricingJ workstations to be competetive with PCs - and being able to build them and, sell them with the same costs are different.  J In any case, all you really want is another chance to vent about the past,7 and why VMS isn't on every desktop.  It isn't relevant.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:26:11 GMT-9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>0B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <7zJBb.10476$RV6.2260@news.cpqcorp.net>s  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> ; wrote in message news:br4lvu$nkp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com...t >l >   ; Hope it isn't as dismal as your forray into supercomputing.r  B There are a lot of people who want to unburden themselves from MS.K Lots-of-luck.  Linux isn't there when it comes to the desktop when comparedn3 to Windows - there will be lots of unhappy campers.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 07:47:04 -0800$ From: tpercy23@hotmail.com (BigBarr) Subject: UCX$TELNET = Message-ID: <421ab8b7.0312100747.778a7e85@posting.google.com>.  F I am using UCX version 3.3.  Could someone direct me on how to set the queue to use a form.  / I have tried setting the queue to the followingl  W init/queue /processor=ucx$telnet/form_mounted=memo1/library=dcps_lib/start/on="XXXXXXX"   A When I print to the queue, I get no error or no printout.  All mytC other queues that are set using the $SMB processor are set the sameuC and work great.  Am I doing something wrong or does UCX not supportn the form qualifier?' Thanks for any help.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:19:45 GMT34 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: UCX$TELNETj0 Message-ID: <3FD752C1.7A967FED@blueyonder.co.uk>   BigBarr wrote: > H > I am using UCX version 3.3.  Could someone direct me on how to set the > queue to use a form. >   ? Thats an old version, there may be bugs in the telnet printing.u  1 > I have tried setting the queue to the followingi > Y > init/queue /processor=ucx$telnet/form_mounted=memo1/library=dcps_lib/start/on="XXXXXXX"y  Q Type /processor=ucx$telnetsym instead. You are trying to use the telnet client asc  a symbiont if I am not mistaken.   regards  > C > When I print to the queue, I get no error or no printout.  All mymE > other queues that are set using the $SMB processor are set the samenE > and work great.  Am I doing something wrong or does UCX not support  > the form qualifier?V > Thanks for any help.   -- t tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:45:05 +0100d# From: edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>s* Subject: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?? Message-ID: <b41928fe550efae8f97269a2948cabec@cryptorebels.net>b  O Hmmm, let's see . . . shows up out of nowhere, posts at the same hours as MezeihG (12-6am), same writing style, same obsession with Airbus and A380, samea* obsession with flight simulators (*) . . .  M (*) Mezei has long been an avid user of Microsoft flight simulator, though he N has hidden this fact from rec.travel.air posters for years.  Why is he ashamedO of this?  Could it be that as a Mac user and MS hater he has had to swallow hisoN pride (along with his own cum from self-sucking) and admit he uses a MicrosoftM product?!  Oops!  Could it also be that he felt the need to create this other O identity to hide his MSFS addiction from his buddies and fellow rabid MS hatersuM over in comp.os.vms, whose respect and support he so craves and would lose ifoJ they found out that he . . . gasp . . . uses a Microsoft product?!  Double Oops!!   Jean-Francois Mezeiw 86 Harwood Gate> Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3e (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLING    Report Mezei's abuse to:   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.comu  ! Some of Mezei's trolling aliases:0   jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comi jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.cat nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>s& Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>e Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>e' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>b% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>a# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>g  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>d Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>d  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>l% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>o$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>p& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>B% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>o& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>s' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>n( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>i' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>u$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>g( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>s" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>n& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>n) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>t' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>i" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>D* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>e Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:50:25 GMT * From: Mayor of R'lyeh <ev515o@hotmail.com>. Subject: Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?8 Message-ID: <t5netvcspqm2jrmne51d2232gi7hled80a@4ax.com>  A On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:45:05 +0100, edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net>e, chose to bless us with the following wisdom:  P >Hmmm, let's see . . . shows up out of nowhere, posts at the same hours as MezeiH >(12-6am), same writing style, same obsession with Airbus and A380, same+ >obsession with flight simulators (*) . . .- >-N >(*) Mezei has long been an avid user of Microsoft flight simulator, though heO >has hidden this fact from rec.travel.air posters for years.  Why is he ashamedrP >of this?  Could it be that as a Mac user and MS hater he has had to swallow hisO >pride (along with his own cum from self-sucking) and admit he uses a MicrosoftsN >product?!  Oops!  Could it also be that he felt the need to create this otherP >identity to hide his MSFS addiction from his buddies and fellow rabid MS hatersN >over in comp.os.vms, whose respect and support he so craves and would lose ifK >they found out that he . . . gasp . . . uses a Microsoft product?!  Double  >Oops!!  >l  6 Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it?     [Snip]         -- u2 I got a sweater for Christmas last year. I wanted , a screamer or a moaner, but I got a sweater.   -Steven Wright   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:38:29 -0600% From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com>r! Subject: Re: VMS ad February 1999h: Message-ID: <ijyBb.138439$M02.44967@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   Thanks for posting this.  , John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:tFwBb.19013$3Eb1.4070@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...H > This ad appeared on page 5 in the business section of one of my city's! > newspapers on Febrary 16, 1999.@ >mH > This was one of a series of ad Compaq ran that week in that newspaper, someL > one-page ads, some double-page ads. Some of the ads were general corporateI > image building ads somewhat akin to the recent HP campaign, but all theLJ > Compaq ads mentioned specific purchaseable technology by name unlike theK > recent HP 'we're so fuzzy and cute you should do business with us even ifb# > you don't know what we sell' ads.a >nI > Some of you may not be able to see the attached image (.jpg). Sorry fore the D > less than scintillating image quality and the large size (~300kb). >w >d >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:54:42 +0000 * From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]>! Subject: Re: VMS ad February 1999 ' Message-ID: <br6u0p$rgt$1@lore.csc.com>    John Smith wrote:o > M > This was one of a series of ad Compaq ran that week in that newspaper, some L > one-page ads, some double-page ads. Some of the ads were general corporateI > image building ads somewhat akin to the recent HP campaign, but all theiJ > Compaq ads mentioned specific purchaseable technology by name unlike theK > recent HP 'we're so fuzzy and cute you should do business with us even ifv# > you don't know what we sell' ads.   A I actually went along to to this series of roadshows, the "BettertH Answers" and in the UK it was hosted by Chris Searle, who some in the UKH will recognize as the TV journalist who started on "That's Life", and is, still sometimes seen on TV. (November 1998).  E He used to do the stories like, people that had final demands for gase@ bills of 0.00 and  they got a warrant to break in to a house andE disconnect a non existent gas supply, because the 0.00 bill was stillo) unpaid, and "we're going to cut you off".r  F The roadshow was a "technology TV show" where Chris interviewed Compaq= technology consultants. I recall he also said "VMS" which wasI> interesting coming from a man I was more used to talking about! vegetables shaped like "thingys".b   -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesi nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:48:55 GMTa0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this>D Subject: Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ?3 Message-ID: <rnGBb.10441$fK6.4782@news.cpqcorp.net>    Peter,  K What version of V7.3-2 are you running? Is it possible that you are running  a field test variant?s  I We have discovered similar problem late September and the fix is shippingh with the official V7.3-2 kit.e4 DCL link date should be 9-Oct-2003 (my birthday ;-).  (         Image Identification Information  !                 image name: "DCL"b1                 image file identification: "X-36"eB                 image file build identification: "X9ZK-0060100000"7                 link date/time:  9-OCT-2003 15:46:09.42C/                 linker identification: "A11-50"   L Can you verify what is the image identification of the image on your system?   Thanks,V   Guy   C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message . news:qQqBb.202166$361.149819@news.chello.at...I > Today, I started a litte command file and already used the new F$UNIQUE/K > and CLOSE/DISPOSITION goodies (Thanks, Guy) but unfortunately had a litte- > annoyance shortly thereafter.9 > F > This command file runs few times a exe which produces a logfile, andG > then reads the logfiles to make a summary file and CLOSE/DISP=DEL thes	 logfiles.>K > But I was very surprised to find ALL files deleted. Even the command fileM !? > 2 hours of work lost.r >:J > Next hour, I rebuilt the command file (from the DECterm scroll buffer) -K > stored it on another node, too - did a SET VERIFY, and then did start the K > command file again with a "SPAWN/NOWAIT/NOTIFY/INPUT=NL:/NOKEY/OUTPUT=BG"i* > to get more info for finding the reason. > H > During the run, I checked with a DIR/SINCE the progress and all seemed well.fI > Until the last second all (temporary) files and the (open) summary file. wereI > there. But finally the subprocess terminated and all (open?) files weree gone.e+ > Even the logfile of the parent process !!  >hK > Note, there is no DELETE command at the end of the command file and thereeI > is no F$ENVIRONMENT or a *.* in the command file. My first reaction waso GOSH,b > DCL has a dangerous bug. >cB > So, my question, does anyone of you have already experience with CLOSE/DISP ? >-K > In the meantime, I try to make a reproducer (or proof I've made a bummer)s > and come back. >: > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistm > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.683 ************************