1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 11 Dec 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 684       Contents: Re: Alan Erskine Re: Alan Erskine- G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory ' Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion. ' Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion. ' Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.  Re: Carly as PHB Re: Carly as PHB- Re: Directory output by date rather than name / FA: (30 min left) VME Desktop Enclosure/Chassis ! Re: Freeware download corrupt (?) ! Re: Freeware download corrupt (?) ! Re: Freeware download corrupt (?)  Re: Hairdoo Economics : Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  RE: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: Ignorance is BLISS... 8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!8 Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. G Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio. : Re: OpenVMS clusters give Windows, Unix thorough thrashing Re: OpenVMS org  Re: OpenVMS org , Re: OpenVMS VAX Emulator Services - download5 Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software 5 Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software 5 RE: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software & Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp& Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp  Re: porting problems encountered2 Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 Radius VMS and DECservers  Re: Radius VMS and DECservers  Re: raid 5 OpenVMS VAX hobbyist " Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]" Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]" Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]" Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 RE: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday # Re: They're here - Loads of systems  Re: Turbochannel SCSI  Re: UCX$TELNET Re: UCX$TELNET Re: Vareck Bostrom Re: Vareck Bostrom% Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ? % Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ? % Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ? % Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ? , Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS, Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS, Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS, Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS; Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:00:04 +0100 (CET) % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>  Subject: Re: Alan Erskine 8 Message-ID: <5d55c75e80d071829853ff8f4268468d@dizum.com>  1 Alan Erskine <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote:   : >I haven't seen JF Mezei post for months; has anyone else?   About Alan Erskine     alanerskine@optusnet.com.au   G Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward J who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theK sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide range K of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing the K participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authorities = in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks and I stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have, 9 notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.   H Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentJ violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking legal action against him.   G Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasing F Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusG Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apollo 1 training 3 exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.   E Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaigns J against other well-known members of the space community, including RichardG Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.  He has A even gone so far as to threaten to kill the entire Maxson family.   H He has been known to stalk his victims anonymously and via sock puppets,J showing what a coward he is.  Furthermore, he likes to challenge people toF fights, telling them to come to Melbourne and look him up in the phoneH book, while having admitted elsewhere that he is not listed in the phone book.  Coward!  H Alan is an enemy of freedom of speech and hates remailers, which serve aJ useful and necessary purpose.  He has resorted to impersonating others andK even himself through remailers in an effort to discredit remailers and make K it look like others were attacking him through them.  He regularly bombards J remailer operators with hysterical complaints and threats and floods their
 mailboxes.  K Alan is currently on one of his psychotic crusades, this time to get people I to killfile posts from remailers in order to prevent word of his misdeeds I from getting out.  Alan is a Nazi, he wants to be able to say whatever he G wants about others but doesn't want anyone to mention him.  He wants to F express himself freely but wants to shut others up and, not only that,J wants others to do as he says, read only the messages he approves of, etc.D He wants to police, rule, and control newsgroups and people like the% perfect little jackbooted Nazi he is.   D Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heJ usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingD end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auB immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,B Australia.  This psycho is very violent.  Do not attempt to reasonD with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to+ reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 04:45:31 +0100 (CET) 0 From: futureworlds <nobody@mail.futureworlds.it> Subject: Re: Alan Erskine-C Message-ID: <502595b4f04a5ee12a6fd8e2372b4241@mail.futureworlds.it>   1 Alan Erskine <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote:   : >I haven't seen JF Mezei post for months; has anyone else?     About Alan Erskine     alanerskine@optusnet.com.au   G Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward J who lives in Melbourne.  He usually stalks and harasses the posters of theK sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide range K of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing the K participants there.  He is currently under investigation by the authorities = in Australia.  If you fall victim to his frequent attacks and I stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have, 9 notify abuse@optusnet.com.au .  This psycho is dangerous.   H Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequentJ violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks.  Some are taking legal action against him.   G Here are just a few of his victims.  He has been stalking and harrasing F Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly.  Scott Grissom is the son of GusG Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apollo 1 training 3 exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.   E Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaigns J against other well-known members of the space community, including RichardG Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.  He has A even gone so far as to threaten to kill the entire Maxson family.   H He has been known to stalk his victims anonymously and via sock puppets,J showing what a coward he is.  Furthermore, he likes to challenge people toF fights, telling them to come to Melbourne and look him up in the phoneH book, while having admitted elsewhere that he is not listed in the phone book.  Coward!  H Alan is an enemy of freedom of speech and hates remailers, which serve aJ useful and necessary purpose.  He has resorted to impersonating others andK even himself through remailers in an effort to discredit remailers and make K it look like others were attacking him through them.  He regularly bombards J remailer operators with hysterical complaints and threats and floods their
 mailboxes.  K Alan is currently on one of his psychotic crusades, this time to get people I to killfile posts from remailers in order to prevent word of his misdeeds I from getting out.  Alan is a Nazi, he wants to be able to say whatever he G wants about others but doesn't want anyone to mention him.  He wants to F express himself freely but wants to shut others up and, not only that,J wants others to do as he says, read only the messages he approves of, etc.D He wants to police, rule, and control newsgroups and people like the% perfect little jackbooted Nazi he is.   D Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, heJ usually also stalks them via email.  If you find yourself on the receivingD end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact abuse@optusnet.com.auB immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,B Australia.  This psycho is very violent.  Do not attempt to reasonD with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to+ reason.  Let the authorities deal with him.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 11:40:04 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0312101140.5638290b@posting.google.com>   X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A2A267.E4F9959F@SendSpamHere.ORG>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0312092132.603ab4aa@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:v > >spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0312091036.61929093@posting.google.com>...] > >> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A2A142.2BF1ACB9@SendSpamHere.ORG>... u > >> > In article <b096a4ee.0312081446.461d11d4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: ) > >> > >Attention Guy Peleg! DCL Request:  > >> > >R > >> > >A lexical function that returns the .DIR version of the current directory: [...] C > >> > A better request might be for something like F$FID_TO_NAME.  C > >> > You could pass your filename to F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES to get the B > >> > DID and then you could pass the DID to F$FID_TO_NAME.  I'd B > >> > think a lexical like F$FID_TO_NAME would make DCL more use-A > >> > ful than just a sinlge function to return directory names.  > >>  1 > >> Good point. That would work fine. I like it.  > >>   > >> Alan E. Feldman > > A > >On second thought, F$FID_TO_NAME wouldn't be of help for empty I > >directories. What I'd really like is to be able to specify a directory  > >in the form > >  > >    DISK:[A.B.C]  > > F > >where "DISK" can be a physical disk name, a logical disk name, or aD > >rooted device logical name. (One could also, of course, specify aH > >logical name that iteratively translates to any of those.) The methodG > >you outlined requires a file in said directory and the specification G > >of said file, and there may not be a file in the directory, in which ' > >case something else would be needed.  > ) > Open a temporary file in said directory : > F$File_Attributes("[<said_directory>]<temp_file>","DID")/ > Close/Delete temporary file in said directory  > F$FID_to_Name(the_DID)  B In some contexts that would be okay but I want to use it in my setE default program and would prefer not to incur the overhead of writing E to disk. Also, in some cases an unprivilged user would not be able to  create such a temporary file.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 15:33:27 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0312101533.7eef8e1d@posting.google.com>   v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<xcJ9Z90jzH+B@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0312081446.461d11d4@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:% > > Attention Guy Peleg! DCL Request:  > > N > > A lexical function that returns the .DIR version of the current directory: > >  > C >    In general, build scripts would be easier to write and to port > >    from UNIX if DCL had a lexical function that would append- >    a subdirectory name to a directory name.  > 7 >    e.g. in UNIX make files we often find things like:  >       base = able  >       next_dir = $base/baker) >       next_next_dir = $next_dir/charlie  >  >    which gives:  >       next_dir is able/baker+ >       next_next_dir is able/baker/charlie  > F >    To do that in DCL, you have to keep adding and removing . and [] J >    or <> in all the right places.  It would be convinient if we could do >    something like: >  >      base = "[.able]" 1 >      next_dir = f$subdirectory(base,"[.baker]") < >      next_next_dir = f$subdirectory(next_dir,"<.charlie>") >  >    from which you'ld get: " >      next_dir is "[.able.baker]"/ >      next_next_dir is "[.able.baker.charlie]"   E The DCL solution for this is given in "Writing Real Programs in DCL", E 2nd edition, section 13.2.1, but I believe it is only good for ODS-2.   6 Of course a lexical function would be more convenient.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:39:48 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory6 Message-ID: <3FD7E704.25FC3886@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > [snip]D > In some contexts that would be okay but I want to use it in my setG > default program and would prefer not to incur the overhead of writing G > to disk. Also, in some cases an unprivilged user would not be able to  > create such a temporary file.   D Well, just as a reminder: F$PARSE( "mydisk:[mainpath.mypath]" ) willH return a null string if the path specified does not exist. I use that in my own CD.COM.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 05:56:43 GMT 0 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this>P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory3 Message-ID: <vGTBb.10516$Et7.5746@news.cpqcorp.net>   & I expect to have F$FID_TO_NAME in V8.2   Guy ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0312101533.7eef8e1d@posting.google.com... H > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message/ news:<xcJ9Z90jzH+B@eisner.encompasserve.org>... A > > In article <b096a4ee.0312081446.461d11d4@posting.google.com>, 0 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:' > > > Attention Guy Peleg! DCL Request:  > > > E > > > A lexical function that returns the .DIR version of the current 
 directory: > > >  > > E > >    In general, build scripts would be easier to write and to port @ > >    from UNIX if DCL had a lexical function that would append/ > >    a subdirectory name to a directory name.  > > 9 > >    e.g. in UNIX make files we often find things like:  > >       base = able   > >       next_dir = $base/baker+ > >       next_next_dir = $next_dir/charlie  > >  > >    which gives:   > >       next_dir is able/baker- > >       next_next_dir is able/baker/charlie  > > G > >    To do that in DCL, you have to keep adding and removing . and [] L > >    or <> in all the right places.  It would be convinient if we could do > >    something like: > >  > >      base = "[.able]" 3 > >      next_dir = f$subdirectory(base,"[.baker]") > > >      next_next_dir = f$subdirectory(next_dir,"<.charlie>") > >  > >    from which you'ld get: $ > >      next_dir is "[.able.baker]"1 > >      next_next_dir is "[.able.baker.charlie]"  > G > The DCL solution for this is given in "Writing Real Programs in DCL", G > 2nd edition, section 13.2.1, but I believe it is only good for ODS-2.  > 8 > Of course a lexical function would be more convenient. >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:32:44 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>0 Subject: Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.) Message-ID: <3FD79F0B.845D11CE@istop.com>    Fabio Cardoso wrote:@ > After all these Itanium migration efforts, nobody had the idea= > to improve the Graphics of OpenVMS ? New Graphical Terminal  > technoloy - mouse  based ?  M Digital has it now... And has done so since before Windows because usable. It L is called X-Windows (or the proprietary version: Decwindows). It is the sameD windowing software used by Unix, albeit the VMS version lags behind. especially on VAX.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:50:29 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>0 Subject: Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.6 Message-ID: <3FD7E985.856747D7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > So,  > @ > After all these Itanium migration efforts, nobody had the idea= > to improve the Graphics of OpenVMS ? New Graphical Terminal  > technoloy - mouse  based ?  H Hhmmm... almost sounds like an embedded o.s. with WRQ Reflection + mouse support.   Kinky...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:08:36 -0600 % From: "Mike Naime" <mnaime@kc.rr.com> 0 Subject: Re: Back to the OpenVMS GUI discussion.: Message-ID: <EZSBb.142288$M02.56912@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>  I David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in message 0 news:3FD7E985.856747D7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > >  > > So,  > > B > > After all these Itanium migration efforts, nobody had the idea? > > to improve the Graphics of OpenVMS ? New Graphical Terminal  > > technoloy - mouse  based ? > J > Hhmmm... almost sounds like an embedded o.s. with WRQ Reflection + mouse
 > support.  5 More like DOS3.3 and Windows 3.11...   only it works!     
 > Kinky... >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:48:04 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: Carly as PHB = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101348.119ff1e3@posting.google.com>   [ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in message news:<3FD6B2B9.4B98B4BF@istop.com>... K > > "It enables us to sell the Adaptive Enterprise much more successfully,"  > J > Read: our new sales force will try to sell wintel blade servers down the' > throaths of our enterprise customers.   A Adaptive Enterprise can be done with Superdomes and partitions or F GS1280s with Galaxy just as it can with blades.  The key is being able> to adapt the technology infrastructure dynamically to meet the changing needs of the business.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:07:24 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: Carly as PHB ) Message-ID: <3FD7A728.A10856F7@istop.com>    Keith Parris wrote: C > Adaptive Enterprise can be done with Superdomes and partitions or H > GS1280s with Galaxy just as it can with blades.  The key is being able@ > to adapt the technology infrastructure dynamically to meet the! > changing needs of the business.     J But Carly talks about blade servers. And this is implicitely wintel market# with fake wintel desktop machines.    K Can windows really scale to support 100 users out of one instance on a very L large Superdome ? When one users types alt-ctrl-del, does this mean that the> whole superdome reboots, depriving 99 other users of service ?  K And if the remote Windows "terminal" won't allow alt-ctrl-del, what happens H when one of hundreds of blade servers hangs ? Must the user then place a+ service call to complain his PC is frozen ?   L I can clearly see adaptive enterprise making a big point if Carly were to beG pitching Xterminals on every desktops and a large central Unix (or VMS) H cluster running Staroffice as well as corporate applications. That wouldI clearly be a "new" offering to windows weenies for whom such concepts are N revolutionary. And when you consider the shared resources in a cerntral serverJ (even memory for shareable images, only one copy of the software to backup etc) it makes a lot of sense.   M The problem is that ,in perception at least,  a unit of work costs more in  a L superdome type of machine compare to a commodity PC. So the Unix vendors whoM want this "adaptive enterprise" thing to work, woudl have to show that to run K star office for 100 users, it woudl be cheaper t have a few central servers G and cheap Xterminals versus having 100 workstations running staroffice.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 11:18:08 -0800$ From: n8wxs@arrl.net (Jeff Campbell)6 Subject: Re: Directory output by date rather than name= Message-ID: <1a40a0b2.0312101118.66753efa@posting.google.com>   X notValid@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<0rrctvk6undg5dmcm84esnnssdk4a081j8@4ax.com>...9 > wasn't it    $dir /o=date   or something close to this?   $ Maybe you're thinking of RT-11?  8-)  5   .DIR/ORDER:[NAME,TYPE,SIZE,DATE,POSITION][/REVERSE]       >        doesn't  help dir work? >        where is MY memory! > , > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 19:35:41 -0600, wrote: > M > >I was curious about the ability to perform a DIRECTORY with display output ( > >sorted by date rather than file name. > >  > >For example:  > >  > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; > > G > >23012913235089_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       29-JAN-2003 13:23:50.91 G > >23052709202986_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       27-MAY-2003 09:20:29.87 G > >33090914505324_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        9-SEP-2003 14:50:53.26 G > >43081912053255_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       19-AUG-2003 12:05:32.57 G > >53040711082544_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        7-APR-2003 11:08:25.54 G > >83052709375703_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       27-MAY-2003 09:37:57.03 G > >93090915185344_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        9-SEP-2003 15:18:53.45  > > 2 > >Where I would like to see the following output: > > ( > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; /VIEW=BY_DATE > > G > >23012913235089_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       29-JAN-2003 13:23:50.91 G > >53040711082544_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        7-APR-2003 11:08:25.54 G > >23052709202986_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       27-MAY-2003 09:20:29.87 G > >83052709375703_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       27-MAY-2003 09:37:57.03 G > >43081912053255_FILE.TXT;1          0/0       19-AUG-2003 12:05:32.57 G > >33090914505324_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        9-SEP-2003 14:50:53.26 G > >93090915185344_FILE.TXT;1          0/0        9-SEP-2003 15:18:53.45  > >  > > < > >Yes, I can use DCL or other compiler to make this happen. > >  > >Just curious (a lot). > > 4 > >To add insult to injury, how about these options: > > ! > >Ascending or Descending option  > > ( > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; /VIEW=BY_TYPE. > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; /VIEW=(BY_TYPE=ASC)( > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; /VIEW=BY_SIZE( > >$ DIRECTORY *_FILE.TXT; /VIEW=BY_FILE > >  > > 4 > >Some of this is already in the /SELECT qualifier. > >  > >  > >J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n > >VMS Systems Administrator- > >firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   
 Jeff Campbell  n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:54:03 GMT 7 From: "John McAninley" <johnebaynospam@engresource.com> 8 Subject: FA: (30 min left) VME Desktop Enclosure/Chassis< Message-ID: <f%QBb.1951$Zq2.1509398@news2.news.adelphia.net>  + Auction Dec-10-03 19:30:00 PST  (22:30 EST)   J A very nice (unused) 6-slot VME chassis/desktop enclosure.   It includes a4 power supply, drive bays, cooling fan, reset switch.  L http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3063189663&category=1479& rd=1  L Please send questions through "Ask seller a question" link on the eBay page.  
 Good luck! John   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:10:38 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>* Subject: Re: Freeware download corrupt (?)' Message-ID: <3fd7295e$1@cpns1.saic.com>    Martin P.J. Zinser wrote:  > Mark Berryman wrote:   [snip]  I >> As an aside, how is a freeware porter supposed to know what functions  G >> might one day find their way into the DECC RTL so (s)he can address  H >> this appropriately in the port?  Especially when Unix freeware seems D >> to assume that all packages will be built from scratch so that a I >> compile-time script can be run to determine what will and will not be  F >> included.  (I think it is this approach to software packaging that G >> causes so many freeware packages to have versions of what should be  > >> library routines using the same name as the library would). >> >> Mark Berryman >> >  > How about this:  > E > 1.) Find out which header is supposed to define the function. Lets   > assume foo.h- > 2.) Use the following sequence in your code  >  > #include <foo.h>$ > #define function myprefix_function > J > that makes sure you will not run into problems with function prototypes H > once the function finally arrives in the CRTL and allows you to leave J > the code for the rest of the world having the funtion already unchanged.  F I think you missed my point.  The question was not how best to prefix H the routines.  The question was how to go through and find each routine I in the package and determine which ones need to be prefixed because they  & might one day conflict with the C RTL?  
 Mark Berryman    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:28:30 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>* Subject: Re: Freeware download corrupt (?)6 Message-ID: <3FD7E45E.1ED75852@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Mark Berryman wrote: >  > Martin P.J. Zinser wrote:  > > Mark Berryman wrote: >  > [snip] > J > >> As an aside, how is a freeware porter supposed to know what functionsH > >> might one day find their way into the DECC RTL so (s)he can addressI > >> this appropriately in the port?  Especially when Unix freeware seems E > >> to assume that all packages will be built from scratch so that a J > >> compile-time script can be run to determine what will and will not beG > >> included.  (I think it is this approach to software packaging that H > >> causes so many freeware packages to have versions of what should be@ > >> library routines using the same name as the library would). > >> > >> Mark Berryman > >> > >  > > How about this:  > > F > > 1.) Find out which header is supposed to define the function. Lets > > assume foo.h/ > > 2.) Use the following sequence in your code  > >  > > #include <foo.h>& > > #define function myprefix_function > > K > > that makes sure you will not run into problems with function prototypes I > > once the function finally arrives in the CRTL and allows you to leave L > > the code for the rest of the world having the funtion already unchanged. > G > I think you missed my point.  The question was not how best to prefix I > the routines.  The question was how to go through and find each routine J > in the package and determine which ones need to be prefixed because they( > might one day conflict with the C RTL?  G Would it be reasonable to say that if one has such functions (something G that may one day conflict with the C RTL), one would be safer to prefix # it now (err on the side of safety)?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:53:49 -0600 5 From: "Martin P.J. Zinser" <zinser@zinser.no-ip.info> * Subject: Re: Freeware download corrupt (?)8 Message-ID: <br8pom$mj75$1@ID-209632.news.uni-berlin.de>   Mark Berryman wrote:  H > I think you missed my point.  The question was not how best to prefix J > the routines.  The question was how to go through and find each routine K > in the package and determine which ones need to be prefixed because they  ( > might one day conflict with the C RTL? >  > Mark Berryman  >    Hello Mark,   A well there is no sure way ;-) But generally we are talking about  H functions like snprintf, or to take some examples from the past unlink,  utime, etc.   C  From what I have seen, either the packages just expect that these  F functions are there, so you get unresolved symbol warnings during link= and know you have to roll your own. So this is the easy case.   I In case somebody already wrote a drop-in replacement for the package you  C want to port, often such routines are collected in one or very few  H source files and not scattered through the application code. If you are F interested in backward compatibility, the C manual I think contains a 0 listing of which function became available when.   Greetings, Martin    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:23:57 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Hairdoo Economics- Message-ID: <87vfoobkg2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:   0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:<8YRAb.155$r%u1.69@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...   % >> Is Power an industry standard? No.   D >> Is Power 'mainstream'. Not by your definition. Yet is IBM looking* >> to kill it and line Intel's pockets? No  B > Power is indeed NOT mainstream, nor an industry standard, and itD > never will be.  It doesn't run Windows (it had its chance and blewF > it), and no other computer manufacturer (unless you count Apple withC > the PowerPC flavor) will ever make systems using it.  It's a dead  > end at this point.  B This is *pedanticaly* true. POWER is dead, all `power' chips sinceA POWER4 are POWER PCs. The 2 ISAs have been merged except for some  imbeded and special designs.  C Users include billyboy, DOE with Blue-Gene-L, IBM in R6000s, AS400s E and soon the Z(360,370,390) series will migrate to it as well. Plus a ) shed load of OEM and contractors to TLAs.   = For a `dead' line, it is spinning a hell of a load of garlic!   C > IBM recently announced 16-way Itanium servers. An astute observer D > might ask why IBM is doing that if it has Power? IBM appears to be@ > hedging its bets because it looks like Itanium will become theE > mainstream 64-bit CPU for servers, and IBM doesn't want to miss out F > on that market. IBM may even be considering ending Power. Sure looks' > like Sun is thinking of ending SPARC.   B See above. IBM will, and has, sell you VMS if you hold your wallet right.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:30:08 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)iC Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUsn= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101330.7f4ef262@posting.google.com>   d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<NcmdnZNdy5iPY0ui4p2dnA@metrocast.net>...N > noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor POWER5L > systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating in absoluteL > as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhanced Superdomes).  F That's sometime out in the future -- what if Superdomes have 96 or 128
 CPUs by then?   N > Hey, HP could have all 10 of the top 10 results if it tested enough variantsJ > of the same Superdome system.  And it would mean no more than the singleK > best result it has posted (nor is anything more than the top 32-processorP > IBM result significant).  B You're trying to pull an old trick with statistics here.  Find outE what metric your competition is ahead on, then try to convince peoplefC that dividing everything by that metric somehow produces a "better"BC number.  Since your competitor's number is higher, dividing by that : number always makes all other numbers look better for you.  F In the days of 4-megabit Token Ring vs. 10-megabit Ethernet, IBM triedA to get everyone to talk about network efficiency in "per-megabit" < terms.  When Alpha clock rates and performance were so high,D competitors tried to talk about SPECmarks/Mhz.  Here, you want us toB accept tpm-C/CPU as a valid metric.  Nice try, but I'm not buying.  B If IBM could produce a 64-CPU POWER4 box they'd have one.  If theyF could have reached 1M tpm-C first, they would have.  The couldn't, and they didn't.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:37:14 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)iC Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUst= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101337.77a045ac@posting.google.com>h  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<mpyWaSqI3hah@eisner.encompasserve.org>...? > 	The benchmark is somewhat questionable.  Greg Pfister in "Inr@ > 	Search of Clusters" points out the "cluster-cheat" that is so@ > 	prevelant.  TPC council much to their credit break things out< > 	in clustered and non-clustered for our viewing pleasure.   B I quoted only non-clustered numbers.  I haven't even mentioned theE even-higher and significantly lower-cost Linux result HP just posted,e which is a clustered result.  ? And if the "cluster cheat" is so "prevalent", why don't lots ofEA entries and lots of vendors appear in the TPC's clustered resultseF list?  Could it be that folks like Andrew (from Sun) and Pfister (fromB IBM) have a not-so-hidden ulterior motive behind their complaints?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 15:53:30 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)DC Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs-3 Message-ID: <d6SqiL+GhYHW@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  q In article <cf15391e.0312101337.77a045ac@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:ah > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<mpyWaSqI3hah@eisner.encompasserve.org>...@ >> 	The benchmark is somewhat questionable.  Greg Pfister in "InA >> 	Search of Clusters" points out the "cluster-cheat" that is sotA >> 	prevelant.  TPC council much to their credit break things outa= >> 	in clustered and non-clustered for our viewing pleasure. e > D > I quoted only non-clustered numbers.  I haven't even mentioned theG > even-higher and significantly lower-cost Linux result HP just posted,  > which is a clustered result. > A > And if the "cluster cheat" is so "prevalent", why don't lots offC > entries and lots of vendors appear in the TPC's clustered resultswH > list?  Could it be that folks like Andrew (from Sun) and Pfister (fromD > IBM) have a not-so-hidden ulterior motive behind their complaints?    < 	Well it is known that Sun's performance sucks so badly they3 	stayed away from TPC-C and limp along at SPEC CPU.o  > 	But Pfister's complaint was/is legit.  You certainly wouldn'tD 	"run" databases like that in the real world (if I recall correctly,: 	multiple copies of the same tablespace.  One per node?)   	Details in his book.i  5 	And from what I can see, IBM does very well at tpmC.c   				Robf   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:30:46 -0500i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUse2 Message-ID: <tPidnf9wtMIMA0qiRVn-ig@metrocast.net>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> wrote in message- news:frJBb.10472$EZ6.1348@news.cpqcorp.net...f >s7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . > news:NcmdnZNdy5iPY0ui4p2dnA@metrocast.net... >oI > > Not really.  1) I knew about the result a couple of days after it wasaD > > posted.  2) As I already noted, it doesn't say much for Itanic'sI > > capabilities (or perhaps Superdome's - take your pick) since it takest > twicekL > > as many Itanics to beat the POWER4+ system by a mere 30% (and, as I alsoI > > noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processort > POWER5E > > systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating ini absoluteA > > as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhancedr Superdomes). > >l >eL > I guess is begs the question that *if* it only takes 30% more POWER4+ thenJ > why hasn't IBM done it?  After all the 1 million mark is braggin rights. MyL > guess is that you don't really know how the benchmark scales, and what the > limitations are.  L Unlike you, Fred, I don't 'guess' all that much:  when I say something, it's1 from some actual acquaintance with the situation.i  G The reason why IBM hasn't used more POWER4+ processors is because theirgD current system design supports a maximum of 32, just as HP's currentL Superdome design supports a maximum of 64.  In both cases, one might suspectH that the designers made a conscious decision that larger systems weren'tL worth the increase in effort required to get them to scale up well (not thatG Superdome appears to be all that impressive in that department anyway).   J However, time and technology march on, 'server consolidation' (wherein oneF uses a single large server to perform many unrelated tasks rather thanL multiple smaller servers) has become an industry mantra, and next year IBM'sH processor limit will increase to 64 (HP had said a while ago that theirsK would increase to 128 in 2004 through use of dual-prosessor Itanic modules,oI but like so many of cHumPaq's 'plans' and 'commitments' that statement no'L longer appears to be 'operative').  Furthermore, each of that doubled numberK of POWER processors will be faster, support 2-way SMT, have more cache, andrH include both an on-chip memory controller and on-chip offload engines toK expedite specialized tasks:  expecting performance of *at least* 3x that of H the current 32-processor POWER system (i.e., well over twice that of theE current 64-processor Superdome and at least twice that of next year's:2 minimally-enhanced Superdome) is not unreasonable.  L And as for scaling per se, I haven't checked to see whether cHumPaq (or, forK that matter, IBM) pulled the same 'cluster in a box' trick that it did withuC the GS320, but non-clustered TPC-C scaling is somewhat sensitive to J non-uniformity of memory latency (where the IBM approach beats Superdome'sK hands down) and long-distance inter-processor communication latency (where,h? again, IBM's on-chip support is much closer to Marvel's than togH Superdome's).  Cache size is less important, at least beyond 1 MB (whereL something of a knee occurs, at least in the last paper on the subject that IG read) - and since one of the primary additional contributions of largermE caches to TPC-C is in avoiding off-module memory accesses IBM's largeeI off-chip module-level L3, though far higher-latency than Itanic's on-chipv L3, helps out there.  I If you still find aspects of this confusing, just point them out and I'llt provide additional explanation.i   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:13:45 -0500r* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUsp2 Message-ID: <LaWdnd1_zdgJB0qiRVn-hQ@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0312101330.7f4ef262@posting.google.com... 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messageg. news:<NcmdnZNdy5iPY0ui4p2dnA@metrocast.net>...I > > noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor  POWER5E > > systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating iny absoluteA > > as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhancedo Superdomes). > H > That's sometime out in the future -- what if Superdomes have 96 or 128 > CPUs by then?i  I What if you actually knew anything about your own corporation's roadmaps?lG Last time I checked, HP had nothing larger than 64 processors in Itanics systems prior to (late) 2005.    >eG > > Hey, HP could have all 10 of the top 10 results if it tested enoughe variantsL > > of the same Superdome system.  And it would mean no more than the single@ > > best result it has posted (nor is anything more than the top 32-processor > > IBM result significant). >e: > You're trying to pull an old trick with statistics here.  6 No, Keith:  I just have a clue what I'm talking about.  
   Find outG > what metric your competition is ahead on, then try to convince peopleoE > that dividing everything by that metric somehow produces a "better"eE > number.  Since your competitor's number is higher, dividing by thatt< > number always makes all other numbers look better for you.  E Perhaps you should talk with Rob about this:  it's precisely the samenG 'excuse' that he gave for Alpha when Sun systems with larger numbers ofhF processors were beating them in TPC-C (but couldn't on a per-processor basis).s  J Or perhaps you'd like to admit that nothing can hold a candle to large SunG and Fujitsu systems in SAP SD, where their high-processor-count systemstB leave everything else (including, of course, Itanics) in the dust.  L Next perhaps you'll be suggesting that clustered TPC-C results with zillionsJ of processors are the cat's meow.  As I noted earlier, you'd really betterG get that job in marketing, because your technical competence is looking  worse each day.r   >pH > In the days of 4-megabit Token Ring vs. 10-megabit Ethernet, IBM triedC > to get everyone to talk about network efficiency in "per-megabit".> > terms.  When Alpha clock rates and performance were so high,F > competitors tried to talk about SPECmarks/Mhz.  Here, you want us toD > accept tpm-C/CPU as a valid metric.  Nice try, but I'm not buying.  H No one really cares if you're buying, Keith:  I'm happy to convince just) those capable of understanding the issue.3   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:50:02 -0500s* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BODe2 Message-ID: <iridndgjoIioIkqiRVn-hQ@metrocast.net>  L It seems that your incompetent coworker has chosen to weigh in here as well,? but to spread out the load a bit I'll address this part to you:.  B "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messageF news:rdeininger-0812030534080001@user-uinj459.dialup.mindspring.com...   ...>  D > In January 2002, there was no shippable EV7 chip, and there _were_J > significant surprises left.  In short, the chip was still buggy as hell.6 > Maybe you think that was intentional, but it wasn't.  J Not to put to fine a point on it, but just why should we believe your (andL Keith's) assertions in this area?  At the time of the Alphacide, people justH like you (even you yourself, IIRC) were lied to by people you presumablyI trusted, and you dutifully repeated those lies to us.  Only the fact that H some of the EV8 architects blew the whistle on some of these lies provedI their nature (rather than merely left strong suspicions), and there don'tiJ seem to be any similarly outspoken Alpha chip people left around to either2 verify or contradict the things you're saying now.   >lD > I guess HP should apologize for not sending you a personal letter,J > detailing each of the technical problems and the plans for solving them.  I No, but HP should apologize to the Alpha user base for not doing that foreI them.  As I already noted, Compaq was still publicly scheduling a Q3 2002tH EV7 release in January of 2002 - long after any such alleged bugs shouldJ have been evident - and the only additional information that ever came outI after the 'merger' completed was a terse announcement of a new ship date,iH with none of the details (through the usual informal channels if nowhere0 else) that usually accompany such announcements.   ...:  G > >2.  At the time of the Alphacide (and for two years thereafter), thee formalF > >plan (stated explicitly as a 'commitment' as well) was to release a faster,oL > >cooler, larger-cache, smaller-die EV79 product to give customers one more atE > >least moderately significant upgrade to replace the cancelled EV8.o > I > I never saw anything from Compaq or HP claiming E79 was a "replacement"D
 > for EV8.  J The message at the time was clear:  EV8 was gone, but there would at leastL be a previously unplanned significant upgrade (EV79) after EV7 to keep AlphaH performance competitive for an additional year or more beyond the periodJ where EV7's performance would satisfy user needs.  Clearly, EV79 was not aL replacement for EV8 in terms of being anything like equivalent, but it was aI replacement in the sense that anyone who had been planning that far aheadsI would at least still have a significant enhancement to look forward to atr about the same time.  9 >  And EV8 was NEVER anything but far-off roadmap fodder.   J The bullshit disease seems to be catching:  perhaps you guys need to go in for preventive shots.   J The EV8 design was largely complete, including extensive simulations.  The? product was moving steadily toward first silicon, with no known 
 showstoppers.o     There L > was a team of engineers working on it, but schedules and specific features  > were completely up in the air.  G I guess you *still* haven't a clue how much you were being lied to back,L then.  Wake up and smell the coffee:  the people who were actually doing theK work (and thus in a far better position to understand its progress than you-B or anyone you're likely to have been talking with) said otherwise.  L And in terms of 'specific features' SMT in EV8 was mentioned explicitly as aK 'commitment' in the famous 1999 'commitment to Alpha' Web letter written byE& senior VPs Bill Heil and Jesse Lipcon.  +   None of which will keep a plan from beingo > shown on a roadmap.a >uD > In May 2001, I saw a roadmap with EV10 on it.  I knew, and I thinkL > everyone in the room knew, that Compaq was just playing with pretty colors7 > in Powerpoint.  Nobody thought EV10 was a comittment.i  L Funny you should say that, because the 1999 'commitment to Alpha' Web letterL also explicitly listed EV10 as one of the 'commitments' - somewhat amorphousJ though EV10 may still have been at the time.  There really was a long-termI plan to keep Alpha at the forefront of the industry that was considerablyoK more than 'pretty colors', whether or not you were aware of it.  After all, 9 serious consideration of EV8 began at the latest in 1995.:   ...o     EV79 samplesK > weren't working right, and it looked to be very late by the time it could5 > have gone to market.  A Once again, please explain exactly why such an allegation has anysI credibility:  the people you likely got it from are, quite simply, proven@ liars.  1   EV7z was clearly a compromise, but it will give.L > customers a performance boost probably a year earlier than EV79 would have > done.   K A 15% performance boost?  Which existing process improvements had *already*yI made possible (possibly for quite a while, but HP wasn't about to divulge  that)?  Wow!   >eF > Yes, HP could have soldiered on with EV79, and probably gotten it toH > customers sometime in 2005.  Someone decided that was a foolish way to > spend money.  I Unfortunately, someone had earlier decided to make it a firm 'commitment'iK rather than something to be reassessed without consequence.  But we alreadyfL knew the value that cHumPaq places on 'commitments':  all we're doing now is. making sure that others remember that as well.  K The honorable thing to do, of course, would have been to provide the 'free'nK 15% EV7 performance boost as soon as it became practical (one might suspecteJ early this year) and then provide EV79 whenever that was feasible (lettingG users benefit from the slightly-higher-than-expected EV7 performance to ) cushion any impact if EV79 were delayed).u   ...o     The original publishedJ > EV7 schedules were hype, and I bet the engineers thought so at the time.  L Probably so.  Of course, that original EV7 schedule you refer to specified aL December, 2000 ship date:  a Q3 2002 ship date was *eminently* feasible (andJ if Curly had had any interest in supporting Alpha a noticeably earlier one would have been).O   ...   L > >3.  At the time of the Alphacide, Compaq (knowing full well that a mergerI > >with HP was imminent) committed to porting Tru64 to Itanic.  So either J > >Compaq lied knowingly, or HP 'agreed' and then immediately reneged - inK > >either case, Tru64's current terminal status is certainly *not* what wastJ > >announced at the time - and, once again, can't in any conceivable sense be8 > >termed to be 'progressing very well and on schedule'. >wH > You may be right about Tru64, but I'm not sure.  Some people in CompaqL > probably knew about the merger talks, but it's not clear to me than anyoneJ > associated with Tru64 knew.  I know from a first-hand account that thereI > was still a team working on the Tru64 port a couple of months after the F > merger closed.  (After Tru64 was already announced to be un-ported.) >rA > It never ceases to amaze me how incompetently and inefficientlyjJ > information flows in large companies.  You can attribute it to malice if > you want.N  G As I've already noted to JF, you're ignoring the context.  I raised theuJ issue as yet more proof that your friend Keith's assertion just a few daysC ago that the plans announced in conjunction with the Alphacide were.6 'progressing well and on schedule' was utter bullshit.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:30:38 -0500w* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD-2 Message-ID: <y5SdncyQ9IEkVUqiRVn-hA@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0312081050.28faf033@posting.google.com....7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message.. news:<N4SdnaMx4MOHp0miRVn-sQ@metrocast.net>...E > > Of course, subsequent drastic drops in VMS and Tru64 revenues andt profits @ > > made it crystal-clear just how stupid the decision had been: > E > Folks looked for such drastic drops, but it didn't happen, probablyrG > because the VMS business involves longer-term sales cycles, and there C > was nothing forcing any immediate reaction by customers.  All the G > numbers I've seen don't support the theory of an immediate drop after  > June 25, 2001.  I As I noted before, you must be able to squint just right to miss anythingpE that disagrees with the viewpoint you hold dear.  Or perhaps you just- haven't paid attention.0  I Examine Compaq's quarterly reports for 2001.  ESG (I think that's what it G was called back then - in any event, the group that contained Alpha andtJ Tandem, I think storage, but perhaps not Intel servers:  if it did includeJ them, then there was enough information to factor them out of the numbers)K revenues and profits were doing well through Q2 (the Alphacide occurring attE the very end of Q2), then tanked drastically in Q3 (most of which wascI pre-merger talk and per-9/11, so you can't shift the blame elsewhere) ands; Q4 - but mentioned that NSK's numbers were holding up well.y   >eL > > But even more seem to have bailed out, given the drastic drop in revenueL > > (from $4 billion to $2 billion annually shortly after the Alphacide, and* > > still under $3 billion at last report) >eC > That $2 billion figure was for Services only, but was erroneouslyA2 > reported in some quarters as total VMS revenues.  K Mea culpa - I remembered the number, but forgot the limitation.  Of course,iJ given the drastic drop in ESG revenues, that only highlights the fact thatH while service revenue continued (as indeed it usually must, since peopleL don't throw away *existing* useful hardware just because they've decided notB to buy any more of it) the drop-off in *sales* was truly dramatic.     The down economy put0 > us at the 2.5 to 3 billion mark for last year.  L Let's see.  From $4 billion in Y2K ($2 billion of which was service-related)K to, say, 2.6 - 2.8 billion in 2002.  If we assume that $2 billion was stillwG service-related, that means that sales revenues were down 60% - 70%; ifsK service revenue was also down some, then the sales drop wasn't *quite* thatn bad.  J Since service revenue drops lag sales drops by years, don't expect overallK revenues (let alone profits - the lion's share of which come from services)n$ to do anything but continue to drop.     More-recent resultspC > have been quite positive (I'm hoping Mark will make those figuress > public sometime soon.)  K That would certainly be interesting, but I suspect not encouraging - thoughv> of course there can always be an occasional anomalous quarter.   >tF > So for those that are still hoping that the Alpha decision will haveB > killed OpenVMS, it hasn't happened that way.  Now let's move on.  J Just as soon as HP takes significant steps (marketing, new development) toJ vigorously support VMS to at least help compensate for the near-fatal blowG it took from the Alphacide, I'll be happy to.  Until then, the past 2.5aA years provide an excellent example of what to continue to expect.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:04:22 GMTl5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger)dC Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BODnL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1012032106200001@user-105n8n3.dialup.mindspring.com>  9 In article <3FD543A7.7040502@tsoft-inc.com>, David Frobler <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >  >> Only a fool or a malcontent. >> builds plans around pre-announced hardware. >t >eJ >Please explain how the above should be applied to Compaq's decision to ax Alpha % >in favor of the pre-announced IA-64?e  D Gee.  Could you trim out a little more context?  I wrote that in theG context of long-term roadmaps they showed to customers.  EV79 vs EV7z. LD Roadmaps might list certain CPU features, clock speeds, and deliveryG dates, but that doesn't mean we should take the details seriously.  Any2G customer who made detailed plans around EV8-based systems in early 200127 would have been foolish.  I doubt any customers did so./  H The "next" thing on a given roadmap is a pretty safe bet, but don't bankJ on the detailed features or detailed schedule.  The stuff after the "next"I thing isn't much more than a guess.  Compaq's roadmaps of early 2001 were ! completely normal in that regard.   G They've delivered pretty much what the roadmaps said would be deliveredLJ for VMS up to this point.  EV7 was later than hoped, and didn't quite makeC the performance goals.  But it arrived.  That's pretty normal for a I roadmap.  Wasn't the whole EV6 product cycle the same way?  EV8 and later E got replaced with Itanium stuff, and that is being implemented.  Were J there roadmaps that said EV8 would ship by the end of 2003?  Probably.  (IF don't remember the dates, since I assumed they were hype for a far-off, product.)  So we got VMS on Itanium instead.    G As for the different question of Compaq's decision to change to Itanium A instead of Alpha.  I expect they had access to much more detailed I information than the Itanium roadmaps Intel shows the public.  (But I bet:D they didn't take the timetable seriously.)  And they had much betterI information about the Alpha business that has ever been public.  (If theyDG DIDN'T consider such information, then they were fools or malcontents.)I   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:05:39 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>VC Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BODoI Message-ID: <7aRBb.31382$3Eb1.21534@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a   Robert Deininger wrote:0; > In article <3FD543A7.7040502@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froblem > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >D >> Robert Deininger wrote: >> >>> Only a fool or a malcontents/ >>> builds plans around pre-announced hardware.0 >> >>F >> Please explain how the above should be applied to Compaq's decision3 >> to ax Alpha in favor of the pre-announced IA-64?a >rF > Gee.  Could you trim out a little more context?  I wrote that in theH > context of long-term roadmaps they showed to customers.  EV79 vs EV7z.F > Roadmaps might list certain CPU features, clock speeds, and deliveryD > dates, but that doesn't mean we should take the details seriously.B > Any customer who made detailed plans around EV8-based systems inD > early 2001 would have been foolish.  I doubt any customers did so. >sE > The "next" thing on a given roadmap is a pretty safe bet, but don'taF > bank on the detailed features or detailed schedule.  The stuff afterF > the "next" thing isn't much more than a guess.  Compaq's roadmaps of3 > early 2001 were completely normal in that regard.  >>? > They've delivered pretty much what the roadmaps said would be D > delivered for VMS up to this point.  EV7 was later than hoped, andC > didn't quite make the performance goals.  But it arrived.  That'siF > pretty normal for a roadmap.  Wasn't the whole EV6 product cycle theG > same way?  EV8 and later got replaced with Itanium stuff, and that is.E > being implemented.  Were there roadmaps that said EV8 would ship bywC > the end of 2003?  Probably.  (I don't remember the dates, since IhB > assumed they were hype for a far-off product.)  So we got VMS on > Itanium instead. >n >pA > As for the different question of Compaq's decision to change tosB > Itanium instead of Alpha.  I expect they had access to much more@ > detailed information than the Itanium roadmaps Intel shows theE > public.  (But I bet they didn't take the timetable seriously.)  AndnD > they had much better information about the Alpha business that hasD > ever been public.  (If they DIDN'T consider such information, then" > they were fools or malcontents.)    . So what's your money on: fools or malcontents?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:49:08 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD 2 Message-ID: <8eCdndTb9sGydEqiRVn-sA@metrocast.net>  B "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messageF news:rdeininger-1012032106200001@user-105n8n3.dialup.mindspring.com...; > In article <3FD543A7.7040502@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >n > >Robert Deininger wrote: > >e  > >> Only a fool or a malcontent0 > >> builds plans around pre-announced hardware. > >s > >tL > >Please explain how the above should be applied to Compaq's decision to ax > Alpha ' > >in favor of the pre-announced IA-64?e > 1 > Gee.  Could you trim out a little more context?a  J Why?  Sounds entirely applicable to me - even in the specific context withI which you close below (I'll trim out the intervening drivel, just as Daveu sensibly did before).e   ...   I > As for the different question of Compaq's decision to change to ItaniumoC > instead of Alpha.  I expect they had access to much more detailedo? > information than the Itanium roadmaps Intel shows the public.d  K While you can 'expect' any random thing that you choose to, the *facts* (astK revealed during the subsequent 2.5 years, most of which could rather easilynG have been predicted at the time - and I did so publicly) are that InteldL pretty clearly didn't have much of *anything* useful planned beyond McKinleyF save for boringly-predictable process-shrinks, cache-size increases, aL dual-core chip (though long after IBM's and later Sun's versions:  when yourJ design is really fat, you've got to delay such things for an extra processL generation or two), and what's looking likely to be a toy SMT implementationG similar to the current one in P4.  The only significant factor that haseD since come to light is that Itanic burns so much power that when theI dual-core version ships it will probably have to choose between disabling J one core (so it can run the other at full speed) or enabling both cores at5 reduced speed - thus noticeably diluting its utility.r     (But I bet, > they didn't take the timetable seriously.)  J Au contraire.  Process generations come and go largely like clockwork:  ifI you're not adding any significant enhancements (and, as noted above, noneiF have yet even been suggested, a full 2.5 years later), sticking to theH timetable is easy.  The only new stuff on the Itanic horizon is what the? transplanted Alpha team is creating, and unless you're a fan ofwK self-fulfilling prophecies that couldn't be factored into any such decisionsK (unless you also noted that if you instead *retained* that team yourself it L would provide a superior product a full 2 - 3 years earlier than it could at Intel).i     And they had much betterA > information about the Alpha business that has ever been public.n  K Too bad they either completely ignored or were too stupid to understand it. G But even so, had they merely been sufficiently honest to stick to theiry? existing commitments that would have guided them appropriately.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:53:35 +0800n, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...- Message-ID: <87iskobj2o.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  , JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes:  A > I may have to learn Bliss in the next month or two, at the veryeF > least to understand what an existing piece of software does so I canA > write a new piece in a different language to interface with it.s  % > What language is Bliss closest to ?c  F > is there any useful documentation on the documentation CDs (I have aF > set dating from 1995 as I recall) ? Or should I expect to spend much@ > time trying to reverse engineer the code to understand how the > language works ?  E The docs are on one of the freeware disks. Some of the implementationt* manuals have not escaped as far as I know.  D Remember, BLISS is an expression language. Tatoo it on your eyelids.> If you want the value, then you MUST use an access operator, .0 MUST, ALWAYS, there is no implicit dereferences.  > Also watch out for dropped ; forming unexpected return values.  < If you really want to burn out your brain, look at the TULIP IO package and its macros.  ? Hunter also has a short doc or two, these have also been on theu freeware disks.R  B For an older version, with historical info, W. Wulf, Anatomy of an Optimizing Compiler.  = BTW, why do you think you need to use a different language tosC interface to it? BLISS is probably the only language as flexible as- macro for that.r   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.k@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:56:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)d" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <4ksdtDYLxZKL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <br7l8o$87po$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:o@ > Hmmmm......   Is there a BLISS Compiler available anywhere for
 > the PDP-11?a  E    Yes.  BLISS-11 was a cross-compiler that ran on VAXen and PDP-10s.3@    The BLISS-10 source for BLISS-11 is available on the network.  B    Bootstraping that BLISS-10 source would be a pain, though.  TheB    BLISS-10 compiler (predates BLISS-36 and Common BLISS) was madeF    available to TOPS-20 customers on a freeware tape (I assume TOPS-10D    also).  IIRC there's an emulator for PDP-10 that will run TOPS-10
    somewhere.6   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:01:31 GMTh2 From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...0 Message-ID: <LQLBb.301941$Dw6.1004512@attbi_s02>   Tom Linden wrote:  >  >>-----Original Message-----; >>From: Bob WIllard [mailto:BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net]d, >>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:16 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come$ >>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS... >> >> >>Tom Linden wrote:  >> >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Bart Z. Lederman: >>>>[mailto:lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com]. >>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:44 AM >>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd& >>>>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS... >>>> >>>>K >>>>If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language Sensitive E >>>>Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in ally6 >>>>languages, but especially a new (to you) language. >>>>D >>>>BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypes >>>>will probably help a lot.d >>>>A >>>>Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it and.C >>>>porting to another language.  I always felt there was something,B >>>>fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spellC >>>>words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and it E >>>>did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before-# >>>>most other (any?) language did.  >>>  >>>p6 >>>I think it could be argued that PL/I did this 1967. >>>1 >>C >>And FORTRAN perhaps ten years before that, although the degree of2% >>portability was *far* from perfect.  >  > J > I don't think so, because it was written in assembler.  The Multics PL/I? > was written in PL/I, first commercial bootstrapping compiler.r >   J Down the rathole we go, perhaps, but I fail to see what the implementationG language of a FORTRAN compiler has to do with the fact that the FORTRANiF language allowed apps to be (relatively) platform- and OS-independent. -- - Cheers, Bobb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:42:40 -0500t* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...) Message-ID: <3FD7A15E.485DBC37@istop.com>s   Paul Repacholi wrote: ? > BTW, why do you think you need to use a different language toeE > interface to it? BLISS is probably the only language as flexible aso > macro for that.t  K A large piece of software has a stub that interfaces with message router. I2M will change that stub with my own that will interface with SMTP instead of MRHK but appear to the big software as the same. (Can't change the big software,h' only the stub which is linked into it).c  M  The current interface code is in Bliss. I don't have the code yet so I can'tm@ judge, but over the holidays, I will want to get ready for this.  N I already have much code in C I can re-use (for instance, converting an RFC822I date into local date/time) So it is logical for me to just use Bliss as ao9 bridge between the big piece of software and my software.P   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:40:09 GMTn& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <dhNBb.10500$ti7.4741@news.cpqcorp.net>n   David M Smith wrote:  Q > Copies of Bill Wulf's (he is the Bill in BLISS) article from the December, 1971lP > Communications of the ACM; and an overview / introduction to BLISS programmingL > session by Matt Madison (at that time of TGV) given at a DECUS in 1993 are& > available in Postscript format from: > H > 	http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?BLISS-ARTICLE-PS > andwC > 	http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?BLISS-INTRO  >  > I recommend them both to you.P    E Recently Ron Brender (the Digital employee who brought BLISS back to lE Digital from CMU in 1970) wrote a history of BLISS titled "The BLISS  G programming language: a history."  It was published in "Softw., Pract. o Exper. 32(10): 955-981 (2002)"  H I don't know if there is an online copy.  I have an extended version in D Postcript form, but with the recent publication in SPE, I'm worried 0 about copyright violations if I posted the file.  F According to Ron's history, over the years, Bill Wulf has steadfastly E held that BLISS is not and never was an acronym.  Beside the already  F mentiond "Bill's Language for the Implementation of System Software", ? there is also "Basic Language ..." and "Beautiful Language ..."n   -- c John Reagano' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaders Hewlett-Packard Companyr   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 16:59:31 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...3 Message-ID: <lxTGooCTLRMF@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  S In article <br74en$eq$1@lore.csc.com>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@[127.0.0.1]> writes:e > Guy Peleg wrote: >>  = >> My personal feeling is that Bliss is very close to Pascal.h >> aI >> There is one rule you need to know about Bliss that will automaticallyy >> qualify youO >> as a Bliss debugging master: "You either missing a dot or have an extra dot"r >> E >> On a more serious note :n >>  - >> X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X./ >> X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in Xh > " > That sounds more like assembler. > 0 > So is BLISS a high level assembly language ;-)  F Comparing Bliss to Macro, one notes that Bliss has much better support) for Macros (putting it miles ahead of C).'  D Looking at VMS source (the largest body of examples around) rememberD that it underuses the FIELD support in Bliss, bypassing some chances for additional type checking.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:15:44 +0000a) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> " Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...> Message-ID: <sONBb.727$526.4339@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:  e > In article <br7l8o$87po$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: G >    Yes.  BLISS-11 was a cross-compiler that ran on VAXen and PDP-10s.eB >    The BLISS-10 source for BLISS-11 is available on the network.  E I thought the BLISS-11 stuff was available on the freeware CD, but I aB don't see it right now. Maybe someone should dig it up and pass it
 along for V7.o   Antonio    --   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:26:20 +0000b) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>e" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...> Message-ID: <oYNBb.742$526.4316@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>   Guy Peleg wrote: > On a more serious note : > , > X=.Y <<--This will put the value of Y in X. > X=Y <<-- This will put the address of Y in X  	 And then:r9   .X = .Y <<-- This puts the value in Y wherever X pointsa;   .X = Y  <<-- This puts the address of Y wherever X pointsr%   .X = IF .Z GTR 9 THEN 22 ELSE 2*.Y;H  8 Everything is an expression (including loops and so on).  G I once spent a while looking at a routine that was written roughly likeg this:e  
     RETURN(     IF complex_multiline_expression THEN        complex_multi_line_blocko     ELSE       BEGINo       IF ... mode code
       END;  = It took me a little while to realise that the routine had note: been stubbed out and was actually still returning a value.  6 The structure definitions can accomplish a great deal.  ; The macro facility is truly breathtaking. You can do almost 8 anything at all with it, but you'll give yourself ulcers/ trying to push it just that little bit too far.l   Lovely language!   Antonio    -- p   --   ---------------f- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:19:44 +0000h- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>n" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...* Message-ID: <3FD7B820.5020900@bigpond.com>   Antonio Carlini espoused:b > Bob Koehler wrote: > < >> In article <br7l8o$87po$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, - >> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:cH >>    Yes.  BLISS-11 was a cross-compiler that ran on VAXen and PDP-10s.C >>    The BLISS-10 source for BLISS-11 is available on the network.o >  > G > I thought the BLISS-11 stuff was available on the freeware CD, but I oD > don't see it right now. Maybe someone should dig it up and pass it > along for V7.  > 	 > Antonioy  ? There is a file BLISS11SRC.TAR-GZ file on the Freeware V5.0 CD.b   Regards, Dave.  -- rI David B Sneddon (dbs)    VMS Systems Programmer     dbsneddon@bigpond.comsI Sneddo's quick guide ...          http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/ I DBS freeware at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmoI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" LennonI   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:28:18 GMT18 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...4 Message-ID: <3FD7BA4B.D4734372@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>   JF Mezei wrote:r  N > Thanks, I will look for it. I downloaded the Bliss compiler and will installL > it in the next couple of days and will start to go trhough the doc whiel IJ > work on another project whose compile is measured in long minutes. (I amM > getting fat sicne I automatically go to kitched to get a snack when i start  > that compile :-)   Jerome Fine replies:  5 I doubt you will have any difficulty.  About 10 yearsn1 ago (maybe more), I was asked to write code which & FORTRAN programs produce via the DEBUG+ package when a program aborts.  The FORTRANt0 DOCs at the time did not have any information in0 respect of the symbol table created at LINK time5 and added to the EXE file.  While it is possible that 6 such information is now available, I asked at the time and could not find any.e  7 In any case, the easy part was saving the data from thes/ stack so that the required information could bei4 produced at a latter time.  Reading the symbol table# in the EXE file was another matter.C  2 Fortunately, there was a set of VMS DOCs available6 on microfiche - a least 400 sheets (it might have been2 1600 sheets) with 400 pages per sheet?).  By a hit1 and miss search through the sheets, I was able to . find the FORTRAN source code listings and find/ the part which produced the symbol table.  I amr) fairly confident it was written in BLISS!h  0 While I did not have to write any code in BLISS,0 and it was really only the data structure that I) actually needed, my background in various 0 languages was sufficient to understand the code.   I hope this helps.   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Fineo --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.e8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junko5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can beI7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding thet. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:29:48 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c" Subject: RE: Ignorance is BLISS...9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEDKIKAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message-----e: >From: Bob Willard [mailto:BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net]+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:02 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com# >Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...s >. >  >Tom Linden wrote: >> >>>-----Original Message-----e< >>>From: Bob WIllard [mailto:BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net]- >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:16 AMv >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >>>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS..., >>>y >>>t >>>Tom Linden wrote: >>>t >>>  >>>>>-----Original Message-----  >>>>>From: Bart Z. Ledermanl; >>>>>[mailto:lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com]e/ >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:44 AMm >>>>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >>>>>Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...e >>>>>  >>>>>iL >>>>>If it's at all possible, I would recommend using the Language SensitiveF >>>>>Editor.  I find it helps A LOT in dealing with programming in all7 >>>>>languages, but especially a new (to you) language.p >>>>> E >>>>>BLISS requires some block structuring, and having LSE prototypese >>>>>will probably help a lot. >>>>> B >>>>>Personally, my experience with BLISS is mostly reading it andD >>>>>porting to another language.  I always felt there was somethingC >>>>>fundamentally wrong with a language that requires you to spelluD >>>>>words backwards.  But I do know a lot of people like it, and itF >>>>>did demonstrate platform and operating system independance before$ >>>>>most other (any?) language did. >>>> >>>>7 >>>>I think it could be argued that PL/I did this 1967.p >>>> >>> D >>>And FORTRAN perhaps ten years before that, although the degree of& >>>portability was *far* from perfect. >> >>K >> I don't think so, because it was written in assembler.  The Multics PL/Ia@ >> was written in PL/I, first commercial bootstrapping compiler. >> >mK >Down the rathole we go, perhaps, but I fail to see what the implementation:H >language of a FORTRAN compiler has to do with the fact that the FORTRANG >language allowed apps to be (relatively) platform- and OS-independent. D I believe we were talking about platform and  OS independence of the	 compiler,f> not the apps.  If that be wrong... then I would agree with you >--o >Cheers, Bob >l >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).lA >Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003a >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 12/5/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:35:05 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS...H Message-ID: <tJQBb.31203$3Eb1.8897@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   JF Mezei wrote:a > Martin Vorlaender wrote:; >> The Freeware 5.0 CD 1 has BLISS docs along with the kit.l >hD > I guess I will have to take a look at it. Hopefully Bliss isn't as > strange as APL ;-) :-)    I Don't knock APL. I wrote a trading system in APL (mostly) for a brokeragerK company I used to work for back in 1984. Took 6 weeks from concept to goingeK live with v1.0. A little Fortran and Assembler for some speed in parts, andiF Cognos Powerhouse for reporting. 24x7 availability over X.25 on a 750./ 50,000 trades per day without breaking a sweat.p   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 14:46:08 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)0A Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!p= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101446.425ee251@posting.google.com>y  x "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<G3NAb.216666$Fv8.141821@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...) > Which sales figures would those be for?s  S I meant VMS sales (hardware AND software), but Fred's answer is also quite correct.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:01:44 GMTc# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>sA Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!dH Message-ID: <s6RBb.31345$3Eb1.8016@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  I I'm quite please that Alpha/VMS sales beat internal expectations. I guess F expectations of sales must have been pretty low to begin with give theI comments of HP's CFO Wayman talking about VMS attrition in another recenti% post here (Year of the Itanium threads4 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/34091.html).   So to summarize:= 1) Sales of Alpha/VMS were better than expected (Fred/Keith). E 2) Expectations of VMS sales were pretty low to begin with (inference  Wayman).C 3) Net VMS customers still declined during the period (see Wayman).tA 4) No VMS advertising contributes to a repeat of 3) next quarter.o  % Who knows more, Keith/Fred or Wayman?i  L I hope for everyone's sake at ZKO that VMS advertising is done soon to bringH lots of new customers into the fold, else I suspect that a lot of peopleF will be looking at their own personal 'roadmaps' out of New Hampshire.     Fred Kleinsorge wrote:@ > AlphaServers running VMS.  It was a very good quarter and beat* > everyones expectations by a wide margin. >h0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageI > news:G3NAb.216666$Fv8.141821@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...i >> Keith Parris wrote:8 >>> "rob kas" <robnospam@paychoice.com> wrote in message/ >>> news:<vspha6ahui51fa@corp.supernews.com>...a >>>>  VMS is better, >>>t >>> I agree. >>>a/ >>>> but it's long slow death spiral continues.n >>>bH >>> Popular myth, but one definitely not supported by, for example, last >>> quarter's sales figures. >> >>* >> Which sales figures would those be for?* >> Printer ink cartridges or Alphaservers?  >> Inkjet paper or VMS licences?( >> Laser toner or VMS support contracts?   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 20:43:14 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)iA Subject: Re: Linux kernel security bug ... VMS kernel rock solid!o< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312102043.d7cffeb@posting.google.com>  $ "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:L > I'm quite pleased that Alpha/VMS sales beat internal expectations. I guessI > expectations of sales must have been pretty low to begin with given thebK > comments of HP's CFO Wayman talking about VMS attrition in another recent ' > post here (Year of the Itanium thread 6 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/34091.html).  A Wayman was not talking about VMS attrition.  He was talking about B Alpha sales (and quite possibly just hardware sales). The RegisterE quote is: "Alpha and Tandem revenues declined 'but a little less thangA what we had built into our model.' said Wayman." The HP QuarterlyrM Results at http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2003/q4.htmlt? say "Both NonStop and Alpha declined in the mid-single digits."   F Alpha sales would include hardware for both VMS and Tru64. So it's notB unreasonable that since our favorite one did better than expected,= that would keep the decline of the total lower than expected.t  F And his figure doesn't include VMS Services, which also did very well,@ and has historically represented a goodly piece of VMS revenues.@ According to the Quarterly Results "HP Services revenue was $3.2? billion, up 5% both year-over-year and sequentially... CustomerrB support revenue increased 5% year-over-year.  Operating profit wasE $393 million, or 12.2% of revenue. Operating profit increased 9% over1- the prior year period, and 17% sequentially.".  ? Wayman's figure also does not include VMS storage. I don't have4F VMS-specific data for storage, but overall Storage did extremely well:? "In the sweet spot of the storage market, HP's enterprise arrays@ offerings grew 109% in the flagship midrange" said the quarterlyD results. Note that's not 9%, that's 109% growth -- more than double.B That's a whole lot of EVAs, many of which we're seeing go into VMS configurations.    > So to summarize:? > 1) Sales of Alpha/VMS were better than expected (Fred/Keith).h   Yep.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 12:17:39 -0800- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)nP Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0312101217.7e443446@posting.google.com>0  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<osoq43cSX9q1@eisner.encompasserve.org>...x > In article <8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes: > > Dear Sir or Madam: > > E > > This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againiF > > about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position? > >  > < > 	Sharp-eyed observers would note this was here a year ago: > n > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9059bf6b.0212040418.c286c03%40posting.google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain >   9 We added new positions.  Where we had no fll-time OpenVMS E administrators four years ago, we added one two years ago and are now3 up to three positions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:05:29 GMTA From: notValid@yahoo.comP Subject: Re: Opening for a System Administrator-OpenVMS located in Dublin, Ohio.8 Message-ID: <ufgftvccgocvnoa61a7f4isimail6djshq@4ax.com>  > Anyone talked with H&R block about this system admin position?  / There seems to be some strange things going on, 7 and it would be nice if you could post the answers heret8 - well, in a way that they don't make money in lawsuits.  + maybe its as simple as an attitude problem?o  9 i remember one MIS Director explaining to me back in 1980eF "computer programmers stay around for 2 years TOPS (notice the digital reference?)2D whereas accountants are only around until the fiscal year end reportD is published and then its off with their heads - blame the bearer of
 the bad news"u  A put accountants and computer people together and what do you get?   0 apparently, based on the responses we have seen,E a reason that H&R block is in perpetual hire mode for a system admin?e  3 nah, who would put together such unrelated cliches?i  7 -------------------------------------------------------o% On 10 Dec 2003 07:01:29 -0800, wrote:   | >jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) wrote in message news:<8a646952.0312092316.4e91f5b@posting.google.com>... >> Dear Sir or Madam:c >> aD >> This position was posted in Dice about a month ago and then againE >> about 6 months ago. Is there a problem with filling this position?  >>   >> Regards,e >> Daryl Jones >n@ >We had filled this position.  As I am unfamiliar with the legalE >implications, it is best for me to say just that the position is nowwG >open again.  I can tell you that IMHO the expectations for the job area >not unreasonable. >lA >The company is H&R Block.  This position is working on a mission-B >critical application for the industry leader in a stable industry- >[nothing is sure but death and *taxes* :) ].d   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:40:09 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)nC Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters give Windows, Unix thorough thrashingc= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101340.7369811d@posting.google.com>n   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew No.Harrison No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<br49p7$je2$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>...uH > Incedentally eBays availability over the last couple of years has been( > very good, they now have Sun clusters.  B It's good that they've have seen the light about high-availabilityC through clustering, with redundant servers.  Pity with Sun Clusters E they can't also have disaster tolerance at the same time, considering'. they're sitting on the San Andreas fault-line.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:10:10 +08002, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS org- Message-ID: <87k7549n2l.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ; "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:   ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ) > news:87wu9ajc1g.fsf@prep.synonet.com...p3 >> mistdragon@zdnetonebox.com (mist dragon) writes:r  E >> > Just imagine: What would happen if HP decided that Itanium wouldpD >> > never make it to mainstream and spin OpenVMS off OpenVMS corp ?  D >> > How many would there be left ? What would be the future of it ?E >> > Would it bring Alpha back ? Would charon-vax nail it ? Who wouldd >> > be the competitors ?a  E >> hp do not want the prospect of having to compete with an agressiveyA >> VMS compeditor. So first step is to run VMS into the ground so 3 >> there is no revinue base for them to build from.e  B > OK.  First of all, VMS != AlphaServers.  So it won't "bring backA > Alpha".  To capitalize a company capable of resuming Alpha chiphF > *and* platforms is a huge undertaking - and I can't see the business > model for it at this time.  F > You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away0 > a valuable income stream - so it's not likely.  F > There have been many points in the past that I think this might haveE > been useful, now isn't one of them.  There may be some point in theaC > future (the end of this decade perhaps) when the time may be ripemC > again.  The company would have to be profitable purely on licenseOE > revenue from the OS, and maintenance agreements with the HP servicesA > organization to provide bugfixes (HP will want to hold onto thet > service revenue).F  D Where did I even once even mention the word `Alpha'? Or vax for that matter?n  3 As for `keeping the service revinue', what service?-< "Pliz reunstall your systeem on the propper hp pappa sahib."   -- b< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.l@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:33:54 -0600V@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS org5 Message-ID: <3FD7E5A2.339DC21@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip]H > You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away a. > valuable income stream - so it's not likely.  @ If VMS is such a "valuable income stream", why does hp refuse to
 advertise it?r   -- c David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 14:10:25 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)E5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX Emulator Services - downloadi= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101410.4375f314@posting.google.com>l  X notValid@yahoo.com wrote in message news:<5krctvon5p5oin3lrcc0ifbvs90q6ab0nr@4ax.com>...+ > Where do I download a vax/alpha emulator?  > How much does it cost?F > And where do I get one that is free - or at least free for 3 months?  E I've seen free (limited-time) demo copies of Charon-VAX handed out ato4 places like the OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp.  D Or search the archives of comp.os.vms at google.com looking for simh	 and TS10.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:43:00 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>> Subject: Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software- Message-ID: <87n0a0bjkb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  B > I drive a 1978 MGB and it has an older distributor so it doesn'tD > even have the electronic ignition module.  Just drove it to GA andC > back, 1500 miles.  Of course, I did take my laptop with me in then > car.  :-)g  @ I think we have finally found something worse that the Prince of	 Darkness!0  B Error On Headlight! Select  [D]im [F]licker or [F]use to continue.   (yes...)   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Dec 2003 21:58:36 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)> Subject: Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software8 Message-ID: <br84uc$ej72$2@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  - In article <87n0a0bjkb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,f/ 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:t, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > C >> I drive a 1978 MGB and it has an older distributor so it doesn'ttE >> even have the electronic ignition module.  Just drove it to GA andaD >> back, 1500 miles.  Of course, I did take my laptop with me in the >> car.  :-) > B > I think we have finally found something worse that the Prince of > Darkness!a >   A Depends on how you look at it.  You know that even after BLM wenteA out of business Lucas remained.  Have you looked at who makes theeC ABS on the car your driving?  I only have to worry about the lightsa going out.  :-)    -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:42:31 -0500& From: "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>> Subject: RE: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software: Message-ID: <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKIEFHCLAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----F > From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of > Bill Gunshannoni, > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:59 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come@ > Subject: Re: OT Very scary: Cars running on Microsoft software >h >n/ > In article <87n0a0bjkb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,r1 > 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:e. > > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >bE > >> I drive a 1978 MGB and it has an older distributor so it doesn'tiG > >> even have the electronic ignition module.  Just drove it to GA andtF > >> back, 1500 miles.  Of course, I did take my laptop with me in the > >> car.  :-) > >mD > > I think we have finally found something worse that the Prince of
 > > Darkness!p > >y >nC > Depends on how you look at it.  You know that even after BLM wenteC > out of business Lucas remained.  Have you looked at who makes thetE > ABS on the car your driving?  I only have to worry about the lights- > going out.  :-)a  K Actually ABS systems fail-safe so I guess Lucas will never be the Prince ofoL Crash ;-) Of course driving a nice "spartan" British touring car you do haveL to add air leaks (in/out)and fluid leaks (in/out) to the electrical woes ;-)   Dans# A decorated veteran of the TR wars.r   >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 12:15:40 -0800- From: soccer13player@yahoo.com (Nom de Plume)s/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcampo= Message-ID: <f401eb7f.0312101215.3cb54214@posting.google.com>l  k wallacethinmintr@eircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote in message news:<3fd73db1.377167662@news.eircom.net>...f# > On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:12:46 GMT,eB > lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) > wrote: > D > >Actually, making private pictures of people visible to the publicA > >is illegal in all states of the U.S.A. that I am aware of, andi > >has been for a long time. > >rA > >Selling, or even giving away, pictures of people without their ; > >consent (without a proper release form) is also illegal.n > >i@ > >I am less certain about the laws in Canada and other parts of+ > >the world, but they're probably similar.r > G > I'm a bit surprised at this... just to check, that means if I visitedcB > America and took a photo of the Statue of Liberty, say, and gaveE > copies to my friends, I'd technically be committing a crime? (Since @ > such a photo would likely contain a few fellow tourists in the > foreground.)  D If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that one aspect of the lawA involves visibility from public property.  Anything viewable from-6 public property should have no expectation of privacy.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:53:53 GMTnL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: Pictures from the OpenVMS bootcamp,6 Message-ID: <00A2A2B5.E45A383E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  V In article <3FD74382.F246C07B@istop.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> writes: >Russell Wallace wrote:aH >> I'm a bit surprised at this... just to check, that means if I visitedC >> America and took a photo of the Statue of Liberty, say, and gave @ >> copies to my friends, I'd technically be committing a crime?  >mN >Sometimes the laws in the USA are designed to help keep the lawyers well fed.L >So yes, you take a snapshot, and you can then expect some ambulance chasingL >lawyer to slap you with some lawsuit. And because of that, you then have to >hire another lawyer.o >iM >They figured that with all the japanese tourists constantly taking pictures,sG >the lawyer community could be quite rich). Lawyers are like rats, they>J >naturally regulate their numbers based on how much business there is.  ByD >increasing the business opportunities, it allows them to reproduce. >XO >Remember that the USA is the country where you can win millions when you spill 6 >coffee on your lap and then sue the coffee vendor ...  O Where "win millions" describes the first result, not the appeal, and the actual C amount paid is in a secret settlement and presumably less than the  ' less-than-one-million after the appeal.>  > And it's not _just_ spilling coffee on yourself, in this case.  K [I am not expressing any opinion about whether the tort system is currentlymG out of control, whether 'tort reform' would in fact reduce malpractice >G premiums, etc, etc, and I really, really don't want to get into such an>M argument on comp.os.vms.   All I am doing is informing JF that his facts are   wrong.]a    - An excerpt from the Stella Awards website, atl  ' http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.htmln  E (Note that after the part I've excerpted there's some more discussiond; McDonald's position, which does complicate the case again.)e  L # Stella was not driving when she pulled the lid off her scalding McDonald'sO coffee. Her grandson was driving the car, and he had pulled over to stop so she1% could add cream and sugar to the cup.e  O # Stella was burned badly (some sources say six percent of her skin was burned, G other sources say 16 percent was) and needed two years of treatment anduM rehabilitation. McDonald's refused an offer to settle with her for $20,000 in  medical costs.  J # McDonald's specified that its coffee should be served at 180-190 degreesK Fahrenheit. Liquids at that temperature can cause third-degree burns in 2-7aO seconds. Such burns require skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments-; to heal, and the resulting scarring is typically permanent.0  M # From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, sometimes.7 seriously, resulting in many claims and other lawsuits.p  N # Witnesses for McDonald's admitted in court that consumers are unaware of theL extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald'sK required temperature, admitted that it did not warn customers of this risk,sN could offer no explanation as to why it did not, and testified that it did notL intend to turn down the heat even though it admitted that its coffee is "not5 fit for consumption" when sold because it is too hot.c  L # While Stella was awarded $200,000 in compensatory damages, this amount wasL reduced by 20 percent (to $160,000) because the jury found her 20 percent atM fault. Where did the rest of the $2.9 million figure in? She was awarded $2.7iI million in punitive damages -- but the judge later reduced that amount toe@ $480,000, or three times the "actual" damages that were awarded.   -- Alan- -- -O ===============================================================================>0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025nO ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 20:49:40 -0800) From: navin_2013@yahoo.co.in (navin_2016) ) Subject: Re: porting problems encounteredf= Message-ID: <268bf130.0312102049.5cd7b8df@posting.google.com>/  h rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan) wrote in message news:<fbcf38dc.0312090930.2851952@posting.google.com>... > > > char * sub(char *p)o > > > {S > > >    int myP=p;r@ > > >    myP = (myP+15)& 0xfffffff0;/* add and mask back down */ > > >    p=(char *)myP;r > > > . . .u > > >  > > > I > > What exactly happens here ? Why are we doing this & 0xffff... ? If we J > > add my+1 then value would be myP + 1*sizeof(myP). Please correct me if > > i am wrong . > G > You are wrong.  This example is doing integer arithmetic on a pointeroH > value.  We are adding 15 to myP, an integer, not p, the pointer.  If pF > had the value 0x40000F44, by adding 15 (decimal) (or 0xF hex) we getC > 0x40000f53.  We then mask off the low order bits to get a 16 byterF > bounded space.  0x40000f53& 0xfffffff0 == 0x40000f50.  If we had notB > added 15, we would have 0x40000f40 which is a pointer to a spaceH > before the start of the p area. (Don't forget C lesson 1, & is bitwiseH > and && is logical (the whole variable).)  I actually saw this where weF > needed page bounded space which is particularlly not portable.  PageF > bounding or 16 byte bounding is the same idea except you can use 511B > and 0xfffffe00 rather than 15 and 0xfffffff0 (on some machines). >   9 This may be a silly question. But why are we doing this  y myP = (myP+15)& 0xfffffff0;hD Why are we adding and masking down . What has "0x40000f40" got to do3 with this ? Sorry i don't understand this properly.>  E Where are all these documented ?. I tried page bounding in google butu< hardly found anything useful. I only get results about thoseE postscript bounding boxes. . Is there any place where i can read morel about all this from.  D I understand that you surely need to know assembly if not for coding at least for debugging.t   -s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:34:32 -0700d6 From: "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net>; Subject: Re: Problems loading 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233-0 Message-ID: <SNednQSEGpK7D0qiRVn-hA@comcast.com>  ( The error occurs after I select option 1@ 1)  Upgrade, install or reconfigure OpenVMS Alpha Version V7.3-1L I tired different cdroms/harddrives etc. The system has  the latest firmware   Firmware SRM Console:    V7.0-96 show_arc: Can't find Flash Rom containing ARC console.8 PALcode:        VMS PALcode V5.56-2, OSF PALcode X1.46-2 Serial Rom:     V4.6 Diag Rom:       V1.7< I was told that the system was at first running Tru64 V5.1A. phillipL    5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message'7 news:d7791aa1.0312101047.7f97a293@posting.google.com...sC > "Phillip D. Williams" <dwilliams296@comcast.net> wrote in messagea, news:<CLqdndKxBo8ZR0uiRVn-jw@comcast.com>...	 > > Hello-L > > When trying to install VMS 7.X on a Alphastation 200/233 with 64megs and ac > > RZ29 I get the following	 > > errori4 > > SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation reason mask=044 > > Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1 > > This happens  with  VMS 7.1, 7.2-1 and 7.3-1.l; > > Before the system starts the console the cdrom (dka500) 0 > > will go into a mount verify. I am at a lose. > > tksv > > phillip  >X; > I have 7.1-1H2 and 5.2 firmware running on those and haveX > not had any problems ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:28:32 GMTn" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG" Subject: Radius VMS and DECservers0 Message-ID: <00A2A2C3.25735C9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  = Anybody running Radius on VMS and using it for authenticationI. with DECservers?  If so, I need some pointers.   Thanks.l --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.t   K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             a5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:22:30 GMTt" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG& Subject: Re: Radius VMS and DECservers0 Message-ID: <00A2A2CA.AF39A3A2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <00A2A2C3.25735C9E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:0> >Anybody running Radius on VMS and using it for authentication/ >with DECservers?  If so, I need some pointers.0 >@ >Thanks. >-- L >http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions. > L >VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >           6 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"      Nevermind...  = $ TCPTRACE/PORT=LOCAL=1645  helped me figure out the problem.      --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.e  tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" V   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 14:25:40 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)q( Subject: Re: raid 5 OpenVMS VAX hobbyist= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0312101425.4d9f6224@posting.google.com>b  o kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote in message news:<5m9ODYhmroN3@eisner.encompasserve.org>...-J > BTW, we gave up on this software when HSJ hardware RAID became availableM > many years ago. There were some holes in this software that could result inLK > data corruption months after an incident if you ran short of resources ate > the wrong time...l   Some info from the developer:i ---mA Keep in mind that RAID-5 technology is N+1 redundancy, and cannotaD suffer a second blow while it is trying to repair the first failure, or you can lose data.   D While a rebuild is going on, if another failure hits, you could loseC data.  The product has been improved by initiating more rebuilds of 1 the RAID-5 set whenever there could be a problem.r  E Also, a DCL command has been added to the product which allows you topF scan for and repair damage before a second failure occurs and you lose data.  ---dB Note that the above applies to use of host-based RAID software forF RAID-5 arrays; RAID-0 arrays and RAID 0+1 arrays are a different story= -- RAID-0 has no redundancy, of course, and RAID 0+1 uses the F redundancy in the HBVS shadowsets.  In my experience, this product getE used more these days for RAID 0 (striping across controllers) and 0+1tB (scalability with better redundancy) reasons than for the original RAID-5.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:29:07 +08000, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>+ Subject: Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]s- Message-ID: <87r7zcbk7g.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  ; Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:e  R > Type / tail on an indexed file can now possibly be implemented since RMS has the$ > read-backwards option (RAB$V_REV).N > It would be key order based, not time based. It woudl proabbyl need a /INDEX > switch to select an index.  < Could there be an RMS option to timestamp files with a 64bit: key with the current time? This seems to be a *very* often5 needed function in logs and all sorts of like output.d  : >> message. It is also unwilling to work on indexed files.  ; That is just too discustingly broken and bogus for words...v Been improved in C has it?   -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:48:02 GMTs9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>2+ Subject: Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]e/ Message-ID: <3FD7933F.2BA47D46@eps.zko.dec.com>t   Paul Repacholi wrote:M  = > Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> writes:c >.T > > Type / tail on an indexed file can now possibly be implemented since RMS has the& > > read-backwards option (RAB$V_REV).P > > It would be key order based, not time based. It woudl proabbyl need a /INDEX > > switch to select an index. >l> > Could there be an RMS option to timestamp files with a 64bit< > key with the current time? This seems to be a *very* often7 > needed function in logs and all sorts of like output.   6 You are free to code that but VMS will not provide it!T It would be a relatively easy task, and I expect good performance in the shared file case.nH Just create an indexed file with unsigned 8-byte binary key (XAB$C_BN8).J The key will compress nicely (do allow dups). The  data may compress some.9 You'll loose RAH, WBH, but DFW may get some of that back.iV A type/since style functionality will be trivial to build and execute real fast... but VMS will not provide it>  < > >> message. It is also unwilling to work on indexed files. > = > That is just too discustingly broken and bogus for words...n > Been improved in C has it?  Q This has nothing to do with C. (it was actually fixed for COBOL which needed READ  BACK).   It is NOT broken. IMHO. * What does it mean to TAIL an indexed file?L Show the last records that were inserted? No way... that data is not stored.V It may be there as an artifact of your key choices and/or data load pattern, but it is not generally avalable.PE Show the last records by primary key order? [That's what I suggested] U That may mean something for your specific file, but not for SYSUAF.DAT  or RIGHTLIST!l   fwiw,f Hein.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:52:41 -0500s* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>+ Subject: Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]o) Message-ID: <3FD7A3B6.AF3837D2@istop.com>    Hein van den Heuvel wrote:, > What does it mean to TAIL an indexed file?N > Show the last records that were inserted? No way... that data is not stored.X > It may be there as an artifact of your key choices and/or data load pattern, but it is > not generally avalable.     I Any indexed file you can TYPE, you should be able to TYPE/TAIL. TYPE/TAILp4 should work with the same key ordering as TYPE does.  K Where I can see a problem is if you want a continuous update. Since records,M are not necessarily added to the end of the file, type/tail/cont won't reallyI. work. But type/tail should be allowed to work.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:09:04 -0500n$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>+ Subject: Re: SEARCH enhancement [type/tail]h. Message-ID: <3FD7DFD0.42F14BBB@eps.zk.dec.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Hein van den Heuvel wrote:. > > What does it mean to TAIL an indexed file?P > > Show the last records that were inserted? No way... that data is not stored.Z > > It may be there as an artifact of your key choices and/or data load pattern, but it is > > not generally avalable.  > K > Any indexed file you can TYPE, you should be able to TYPE/TAIL. TYPE/TAILu6 > should work with the same key ordering as TYPE does.   Fair enough.  V Submit an improvement request if you believe it will keep exisitng VMS customer more /. /longer commited, or might gain new customers.   Hein.-   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Dec 2003 19:10:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <br7r3f$c4g1$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <pPJBb.10481$l%6.7789@news.cpqcorp.net>,l< 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: > B >         JDS on Linux is going to be a huge dissapointment to any= > non-UNIX-savvy consumer hoping to replace their Windows PC.d >   < Why would you say that?  Are they expected to miss the daily< reboots that gave them a chance to go for that second cup of coffee??  = I am anything but a Linux advocate (knowing that Linux is theb= worst example of the genre that has come to be know as "UNIX"M= even though it really has nothing to do with it and shares not= ancestery with real Unix) but at this point, the installs are B at least as smooth and easy as Windows (although usually requiringC less reboots) and there is all the same and even more functionalityi0 out of the box than is to be found on Windows.     bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:43:33 GMTe9 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com>KB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <pPJBb.10481$l%6.7789@news.cpqcorp.net>r  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:GPMh$LR07gnA@eisner.encompasserve.org...eH > In article <br4lvu$nkp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK; Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:o >.K > > It may suprise you then to know that the UK NHS who are Europes largesteA > > employer with over 1 million employees are running a trail tonH > > replace Windows with Sun's JDS which is based on SuSE Linux and thatK > > the UK's Office of Government Commerce is also trialing JDS for anothera% > > 500,000 desks for civil servants.e > C >    And while Sun's SPARC falls behind it's rivals, it's sales and-F >    marketing staff clearly knows something about how to do business. >m4 >    Sun is working with WalMart, proposing that itsD >    Gnome/Java/OpenOffice (JDS) system be used to fulfill WalMart'sB >    desire for a cheaper mass market PC.  Sun is pricing JDS at a( >    fraction of the price of MS Office. >eJ >    Now that's they way to go after the "software for the masses" market. >o  K I wish them luck.  All I'm expecting out of it is perhaps MS dropping theiro@ costs.  JDS on Linux is going to be a huge dissapointment to any; non-UNIX-savvy consumer hoping to replace their Windows PC.n   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 13:25:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday3 Message-ID: <vjw00xC5edP8@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  c In article <br7r3f$c4g1$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:45 > In article <pPJBb.10481$l%6.7789@news.cpqcorp.net>,-> > 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes: >> nC >>         JDS on Linux is going to be a huge dissapointment to anyt> >> non-UNIX-savvy consumer hoping to replace their Windows PC. >> a > > > Why would you say that?  Are they expected to miss the daily> > reboots that gave them a chance to go for that second cup of
 > coffee?? >   ? 	That was then.  This is now.  I reboot my Win95 PC once a day.3! 	I don't reboot the WinXP laptop.e  ? > I am anything but a Linux advocate (knowing that Linux is the-? > worst example of the genre that has come to be know as "UNIX"u? > even though it really has nothing to do with it and shares nod? > ancestery with real Unix) but at this point, the installs are D > at least as smooth and easy as Windows (although usually requiringE > less reboots) and there is all the same and even more functionalitys2 > out of the box than is to be found on Windows.    < 	Depends on the package.  Most PC installs you click "Next".7 	My 5 year-old can install Windows software - and does.t  8 	It's big Momemntum.  MS has billions in cash and spends 	billions on research.  > 	I wish Linux desktop modest success to keep Windows software ! 	prices low, or better yet lower.-   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Dec 2003 21:54:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)B Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday8 Message-ID: <br84nf$ej72$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>  3 In article <vjw00xC5edP8@eisner.encompasserve.org>,:. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:e > In article <br7r3f$c4g1$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:o6 >> In article <pPJBb.10481$l%6.7789@news.cpqcorp.net>,? >> 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:b >>> D >>>         JDS on Linux is going to be a huge dissapointment to any? >>> non-UNIX-savvy consumer hoping to replace their Windows PC.  >>>  >> o? >> Why would you say that?  Are they expected to miss the dailyg? >> reboots that gave them a chance to go for that second cup ofW >> coffee??o >> t > A > 	That was then.  This is now.  I reboot my Win95 PC once a day. # > 	I don't reboot the WinXP laptop.   E Don't have enough experience with XP to say if it's that much better, E but I still have loads of Win2K boxes and they still require periodicoA (read frequent!) reboots.  Even Win2K Server!  Being as I have no7B choice but run labs and offices full of Windows, I sure hope XP is an improvement.t   > @ >> I am anything but a Linux advocate (knowing that Linux is the@ >> worst example of the genre that has come to be know as "UNIX"@ >> even though it really has nothing to do with it and shares no@ >> ancestery with real Unix) but at this point, the installs areE >> at least as smooth and easy as Windows (although usually requiringeF >> less reboots) and there is all the same and even more functionality3 >> out of the box than is to be found on Windows.  f > > > 	Depends on the package.  Most PC installs you click "Next".  E You must never have had to install Visual Studio.  I learned long ago H that the version number frefers to how many times you will be instructed1 to reboot the machine during the install process,d  D Oh, yeah,  Last time I installed RedHat it was basicly just clickingD "Next" every minute or so.  I have heard some of the others are even easier.m  9 > 	My 5 year-old can install Windows software - and does.s  B So can a college professor, but with slightly more difficulty. :-)   > : > 	It's big Momemntum.  MS has billions in cash and spends > 	billions on research.  @ Actually, it isn't research that keeps MS ahead, it's marketing,C But you are probably tired of hearing that word bandied about here.    > @ > 	I wish Linux desktop modest success to keep Windows software # > 	prices low, or better yet lower.   B I only wish one of the better Free Unixes would get enough hype to? enter the fray. But, like MS products, the hardware has so muchs4 power today no one notices Linux's inefficiencies.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:42:26 -0500& From: "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>B Subject: RE: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday: Message-ID: <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKGEFHCLAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----F > From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]On Behalf Of > Bill Gunshannonh, > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:55 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaD > Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday >a > 5 > In article <vjw00xC5edP8@eisner.encompasserve.org>,S0 > 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:< > > In article <br7r3f$c4g1$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>,, > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 > >> In article <pPJBb.10481$l%6.7789@news.cpqcorp.net>,A > >> 	"Fred Kleinsorge" <my-last-name@stardotzko.dec.com> writes:   @ > > 	Depends on the package.  Most PC installs you click "Next". >8G > You must never have had to install Visual Studio.  I learned long agorJ > that the version number frefers to how many times you will be instructed3 > to reboot the machine during the install process,i  H Well I just now finished installing VS.net Pro on this machine and asideF from the fact it used 3.2GB of disk and 5 CD's (that's 4 extra clicks)I seemed ordinary enough to me - no reboot required (XP). In fact I haven'thJ rebooted any of my three WinDell desktop boxes (2 W2k and one XP) in weeksH and only then because of OS patches or power problems and no UPS. My W2KJ Active Directory/Web servers(w/UPS) have only been rebooted after applyingH the endless stream of "Critical Updates" emanating from Redmond. They no6 longer crash on their own - they have to be pushed ;-)   YMMV and apparently does,    Dano     > F > Oh, yeah,  Last time I installed RedHat it was basicly just clickingF > "Next" every minute or so.  I have heard some of the others are even	 > easier.  >y; > > 	My 5 year-old can install Windows software - and does.u >nD > So can a college professor, but with slightly more difficulty. :-) >  > >i< > > 	It's big Momemntum.  MS has billions in cash and spends > > 	billions on research. >lB > Actually, it isn't research that keeps MS ahead, it's marketing,E > But you are probably tired of hearing that word bandied about here.a >t > >dA > > 	I wish Linux desktop modest success to keep Windows softwarei% > > 	prices low, or better yet lower.a >rD > I only wish one of the better Free Unixes would get enough hype toA > enter the fray. But, like MS products, the hardware has so muchp4 > power today no one notices Linux's inefficiencies. >  > bill >0 > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >a >y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:12:19 GMT:# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>aB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected MondayI Message-ID: <ngRBb.31449$3Eb1.18949@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>r   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:9 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> wrote in messagey% > news:3FD58B1F.BE20CE61@istop.com...n >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:h >>D >> DECwrite failed because Digital refused to price its workstationsE >> competitively with PCs andprovide real marketing for its products.i >> >fF > DECwrite failed, because DECwrite failed.  Pure and simple.  PricingC > workstations to be competetive with PCs - and being able to buildt7 > them and sell them with the same costs are different.e >SF > In any case, all you really want is another chance to vent about the? > past, and why VMS isn't on every desktop.  It isn't relevant.     < So let's vent about relevant issues in the present shall we?  J Explain why a system with a value proposition such as offered by Alpha/VMSB coupled with HP's 'iron-clad' "Retain Trust" intiative isn't beingL advertised and used to bring large numbers of *new* customers (say 20-30,000 per annum) to the VMS family.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:43:15 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, Subject: Re: They're here - Loads of systems6 Message-ID: <3FD7E7D3.7E9487AB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   DAVID TURNER wrote:t >  > In stock ready to go...s >  > Qty ES40 Model 1's and 2's > Qty DS20e 667Mhz Systems > 400+ Alphaserver DS10L's/ > 24 x HSG80 (New revisions) with cache and ACS 2 > 200+ 36GB Disks and U3 Racks (14 slots per rack), > Cabinets (which we will sell VERY cheaply)1 > SAN switches and KGPSA 1Gbit Fiberchannel Cardsg > ' > Loads of preconfigured Storage Arrayso > + > Call or email us if you have any interesta  / I e-mailed you a quote request. Did you get it?u   -- y David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:09:37 +0000 ) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>r Subject: Re: Turbochannel SCSI> Message-ID: <JINBb.723$526.4339@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>   Barry wrote:  D > Are there any problems using a PMAZ Turbochannel SCSI Adaptor in a+ > VAXstation 4000-90 running OpenVMS 7.1???O  E If you mean will the VAXstation explode - probably not. Whether there2E is an OpenVMS driver for it, I don't know. I do know that the OpenVMSoB SPD lists the PMAZ as Alpha-only, so it does not look too hopeful.   Antoniou   --   ---------------:- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:46:51 -0600u@ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: UCX$TELNETe6 Message-ID: <3FD7E8AB.DC6C8C14@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   BigBarr wrote: > H > I am using UCX version 3.3.  Could someone direct me on how to set the > queue to use a form. > 1 > I have tried setting the queue to the following  > Y > init/queue /processor=ucx$telnet/form_mounted=memo1/library=dcps_lib/start/on="XXXXXXX"- > C > When I print to the queue, I get no error or no printout.  All my E > other queues that are set using the $SMB processor are set the samefE > and work great.  Am I doing something wrong or does UCX not support  > the form qualifier?i > Thanks for any help.  @ As Tim noted, the symbiont name needs correction: UCX$TELNETSYM.  F That version has some noteworthy bugs in the symbiont. Don't recall if that's one of 'em.   -- s David J. DachteraD dba DJE Systems. http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Dec 2003 20:36:51 -0800$ From: tpercy23@hotmail.com (BigBarr) Subject: Re: UCX$TELNET = Message-ID: <421ab8b7.0312102036.7fac2683@posting.google.com>t  T Sorry, that was a typo on my part.  I am typing in ucx$telnetsym.  Any other advice?  l Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3FD752C1.7A967FED@blueyonder.co.uk>... > BigBarr wrote: > > J > > I am using UCX version 3.3.  Could someone direct me on how to set the > > queue to use a form. > >  > A > Thats an old version, there may be bugs in the telnet printing.h > 3 > > I have tried setting the queue to the following  > > [ > > init/queue /processor=ucx$telnet/form_mounted=memo1/library=dcps_lib/start/on="XXXXXXX"f > S > Type /processor=ucx$telnetsym instead. You are trying to use the telnet client asn" > a symbiont if I am not mistaken. > 	 > regards  > > E > > When I print to the queue, I get no error or no printout.  All myhG > > other queues that are set using the $SMB processor are set the samegG > > and work great.  Am I doing something wrong or does UCX not supporte > > the form qualifier?a > > Thanks for any help.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:37:57 GMTi1 From: "   Darrell Larose" <CXotaX348X@rXogers.co>e Subject: Re: Vareck BostromoH Message-ID: <p7OBb.30392$3Eb1.4962@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message-5 news:3fd7ad61$0$1021$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... ; > I haven't seen JF Mezei post for months; has anyone else?P >u > -- > Alan Erskine > alanterskine(at)hotmail.com. >2 > Iraq, America's new Vietnamc >lK He does post here, but it's easy to miss with all the TROLLS posing as him.3. Must be odd having everyone wanting to be him.   ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:34:32 +1100.2 From: "Alan Erskine" <alanerskine@optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: Vareck Bostromt; Message-ID: <3fd7ad61$0$1021$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>I  9 I haven't seen JF Mezei post for months; has anyone else?l   -- Alan Erskine alanterskine(at)hotmail.comh   Iraq, America's new Vietnam    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:30:07 +0100 (CET)w% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>w. Subject: Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?8 Message-ID: <a1e93d4d53c0d997e5f146a2d5107ab3@dizum.com>  &  edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> writes:  + >(along with his own cum from self-sucking)   A Really? I wish I could do that. I had a dream once where I could.p   -- u the one true Nomen   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:50:38 GMTr& From: Vareck Bostrom <bostrov@mac.com>. Subject: Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?= Message-ID: <bostrov-6DD666.16503610122003@news.easynews.com>n  A I'm not JF Mezei. I haven't 'shown up out of nowhere', I've been 0H positing (under the same name) to usenet since 1989 or 1990. I like and F play flight simulator and don't see any reason why anyone should hide D that (any more than hiding the fact that you play Quake or whatever I else). I'm both a Mac and a PC user, worked for Intel for 7+ years, have  G plenty of friends at MS and don't really understand where this bizarre ,; decision to accuse me of being someone else has come from. S  E I'm a real person and not "JF Mezei"- I have US patents issued in my yG name (check the patent database server) and my homepage (includes real  6 pictures of me) is at http://homepage.mac.com/bostrov    In short, wtf?    ? In article <b41928fe550efae8f97269a2948cabec@cryptorebels.net>, %  edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> wrote:h  L > Hmmm, let's see . . . shows up out of nowhere, posts at the same hours as  > MezeisI > (12-6am), same writing style, same obsession with Airbus and A380, samer, > obsession with flight simulators (*) . . . > O > (*) Mezei has long been an avid user of Microsoft flight simulator, though heuI > has hidden this fact from rec.travel.air posters for years.  Why is he n	 > ashamedoN > of this?  Could it be that as a Mac user and MS hater he has had to swallow  > his.G > pride (along with his own cum from self-sucking) and admit he uses a d > Microsoft O > product?!  Oops!  Could it also be that he felt the need to create this othernK > identity to hide his MSFS addiction from his buddies and fellow rabid MS l > hatersO > over in comp.os.vms, whose respect and support he so craves and would lose ifnL > they found out that he . . . gasp . . . uses a Microsoft product?!  Double > Oops!! >  > Jean-Francois Mezeie > 86 Harwood Gateg > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3o > (514) 695-8259 >  > A DECADE OF USENET TROLLINGh >  > Report Mezei's abuse to: >  > abuse@sympatico.ca > abuse@bellglobal.com > abuse@istop.comd > # > Some of Mezei's trolling aliases:e >  > jfmezei@istop.come > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.como > jfmezei@videotron.ca > jfmezei@vl.videotron.cai > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cag  > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] > nobody <nobody@nobody.com>+ > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>l( > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>& > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>' > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>' > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org>o$ > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>& > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>/ > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>c) > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>e$ > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>a) > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>.* > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>( > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org>! > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>y) > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>l' > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>o > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> # > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> % > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>u" > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>& > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>( > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>& > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>, > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>  > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org># > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>n! > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>u& > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org># > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>e# > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>s" > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>& > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>  > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>' > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>d' > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>?& > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>r( > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>* > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>' > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>=' > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>=( > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>, > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>( > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>) > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>-) > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>k* > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>. > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>0 > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>a) > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>:' > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>g& > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>$ > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>( > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>% > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>m* > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>' > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>+$ > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>' > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> ( > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>) > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>.+ > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>m) > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> $ > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>* > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>. > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>- > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> , > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>* > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>) > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> , > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org>! > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  > Q <queue@continuum.net>i > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>, > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>+ > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:59:46 GMTe1 From: "   Darrell Larose" <CXotaX348X@rXogers.co> . Subject: Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?I Message-ID: <6kPBb.30782$3Eb1.18034@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>s  J The poser feels he is un-tracable. He has to hide behind cryptorebels.net,I dizum.com, Frog re-mailer et al because he is fat little coward afraid of  even his own shadow.  3 "Vareck Bostrom" <bostrov@mac.com> wrote in messagey7 news:bostrov-6DD666.16503610122003@news.easynews.com...dB > I'm not JF Mezei. I haven't 'shown up out of nowhere', I've beenI > positing (under the same name) to usenet since 1989 or 1990. I like andeG > play flight simulator and don't see any reason why anyone should hideoE > that (any more than hiding the fact that you play Quake or whatever-J > else). I'm both a Mac and a PC user, worked for Intel for 7+ years, haveH > plenty of friends at MS and don't really understand where this bizarre< > decision to accuse me of being someone else has come from. >nF > I'm a real person and not "JF Mezei"- I have US patents issued in myH > name (check the patent database server) and my homepage (includes real7 > pictures of me) is at http://homepage.mac.com/bostrove >  > In short, wtf? >: > A > In article <b41928fe550efae8f97269a2948cabec@cryptorebels.net>,c' >  edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> wrote:o >XJ > > Hmmm, let's see . . . shows up out of nowhere, posts at the same hours as	 > > Mezei K > > (12-6am), same writing style, same obsession with Airbus and A380, samee. > > obsession with flight simulators (*) . . . > >nG > > (*) Mezei has long been an avid user of Microsoft flight simulator,e	 though heaJ > > has hidden this fact from rec.travel.air posters for years.  Why is he > > ashamedSG > > of this?  Could it be that as a Mac user and MS hater he has had tol swallow  > > his H > > pride (along with his own cum from self-sucking) and admit he uses a
 > > MicrosoftmK > > product?!  Oops!  Could it also be that he felt the need to create thiso othersL > > identity to hide his MSFS addiction from his buddies and fellow rabid MS
 > > hatersI > > over in comp.os.vms, whose respect and support he so craves and would  lose ifaF > > they found out that he . . . gasp . . . uses a Microsoft product?! Double
 > > Oops!! > >2 > > Jean-Francois Mezeim > > 86 Harwood GateG > > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3s > > (514) 695-8259 > >A > > A DECADE OF USENET TROLLING  > >d > > Report Mezei's abuse to: > >t > > abuse@sympatico.ca > > abuse@bellglobal.com > > abuse@istop.com  > >s% > > Some of Mezei's trolling aliases:  > >e > > jfmezei@istop.comi > > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.como > > jfmezei@videotron.ca > > jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca( > > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cay" > > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] > > nobody <nobody@nobody.com>- > > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>M* > > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( > > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>) > > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>   > > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>) > > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> & > > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>( > > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>1 > > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>k+ > > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>e& > > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>V+ > > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>C, > > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>* > > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org># > > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>d+ > > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>w) > > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>s! > > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>n% > > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>k' > > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org> $ > > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>( > > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>* > > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>( > > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>. > > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>" > > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>% > > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> # > > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>b( > > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>% > > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>,% > > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>a$ > > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>( > > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>" > > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>) > > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ) > > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>e( > > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org>! > > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>l* > > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>, > > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>) > > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>h) > > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>r* > > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>. > > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>* > > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>+ > > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>d+ > > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>r, > > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>0 > > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>2 > > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>I+ > > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ) > > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>u( > > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>& > > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>* > > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>' > > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>w, > > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>) > > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>-& > > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>) > > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>y* > > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>+ > > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>p- > > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>s+ > > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>i& > > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>, > > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>0 > > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>/ > > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>D. > > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, > > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>+ > > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>b. > > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org># > > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>e > > Q <queue@continuum.net>k > > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>. > > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>- > > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:40:34 GMT - From: "John Fraser" <jfraser@ns.sympatico.ca> . Subject: Re: Vareck Bostrom = J F  M e z e i ?; Message-ID: <mWPBb.9134$IF6.425494@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>e   Good evening Vareck;    3 "Vareck Bostrom" <bostrov@mac.com> wrote in messages7 news:bostrov-6DD666.16503610122003@news.easynews.com...-B > I'm not JF Mezei. I haven't 'shown up out of nowhere', I've beenI > positing (under the same name) to usenet since 1989 or 1990. I like andaG > play flight simulator and don't see any reason why anyone should hidewE > that (any more than hiding the fact that you play Quake or whatevercJ > else). I'm both a Mac and a PC user, worked for Intel for 7+ years, haveH > plenty of friends at MS and don't really understand where this bizarre< > decision to accuse me of being someone else has come from. > F > I'm a real person and not "JF Mezei"- I have US patents issued in myH > name (check the patent database server) and my homepage (includes real7 > pictures of me) is at http://homepage.mac.com/bostrovl >  > In short, wtf?  0     Looks like quite the view from the hogsback.   Cheers,  John     >s >aA > In article <b41928fe550efae8f97269a2948cabec@cryptorebels.net>,c' >  edo <nobody@cryptorebels.net> wrote:e >nJ > > Hmmm, let's see . . . shows up out of nowhere, posts at the same hours as	 > > MezeisK > > (12-6am), same writing style, same obsession with Airbus and A380, samee. > > obsession with flight simulators (*) . . . > >cG > > (*) Mezei has long been an avid user of Microsoft flight simulator,o	 though hetJ > > has hidden this fact from rec.travel.air posters for years.  Why is he > > ashamed.G > > of this?  Could it be that as a Mac user and MS hater he has had tos swallow  > > his H > > pride (along with his own cum from self-sucking) and admit he uses a
 > > MicrosoftnK > > product?!  Oops!  Could it also be that he felt the need to create this  othersL > > identity to hide his MSFS addiction from his buddies and fellow rabid MS
 > > hatersI > > over in comp.os.vms, whose respect and support he so craves and would  lose ifhF > > they found out that he . . . gasp . . . uses a Microsoft product?! Double
 > > Oops!! > >T > > Jean-Francois Mezei  > > 86 Harwood Gate- > > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3e > > (514) 695-8259 > >r > > A DECADE OF USENET TROLLINGo > >> > > Report Mezei's abuse to: > >t > > abuse@sympatico.ca > > abuse@bellglobal.com > > abuse@istop.comH > > % > > Some of Mezei's trolling aliases:i > >d > > jfmezei@istop.com  > > jfmezei.spamnot@istop.comw > > jfmezei@videotron.ca > > jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  > > nospam.jfmezei@videotron.cao" > > "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] > > nobody <nobody@nobody.com>- > > Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org>o* > > Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( > > Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>) > > Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>u  > > Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>) > > Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> & > > Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>( > > Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>1 > > Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>0+ > > Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>z& > > Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> > > Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>D+ > > Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org>o, > > Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>* > > Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org># > > Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>t+ > > Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>t) > > Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>o! > > Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>i% > > Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> ' > > Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>l$ > > Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>( > > Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>* > > Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>( > > Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>. > > Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org>" > > Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>% > > Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org> # > > Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>m( > > Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>% > > Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>n% > > Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>7$ > > Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>( > > Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org>" > > Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>) > > Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> ) > > Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> ( > > Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org>! > > Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> * > > Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>, > > Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>) > > Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>n) > > Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>i* > > Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>. > > Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>* > > Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>+ > > Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>i+ > > Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> , > > Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>0 > > Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>2 > > Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> > > Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> + > > Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> ) > > Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> ( > > Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>& > > Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>* > > Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org>' > > Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>i, > > Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>) > > Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>m& > > Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>) > > Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> * > > Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>+ > > Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>t- > > Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>m+ > > Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>7& > > Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>, > > Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>0 > > George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>/ > > Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org>s. > > Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, > > Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>+ > > Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>e. > > Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org># > > T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>c > > Q <queue@continuum.net>l > > Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>. > > Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>- > > John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:05:00 +0800o, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS)- Message-ID: <87zne0bo3n.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  1 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:t   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:p  ? >>   I will assume you are aware this is the second slowest VAXo >>   platform.  % > Isn't this the third slowest VAXen?A  ) > The VAX725/730 is slower than a VAX750.p  1 > Isn't the MicroVAX I also slower than a VAX750?e   uV-I 730n 725       (no IDC helps :))u 750o1 750       (the original full speed fall over one)-   So fourth and fifth slowest.   -- 3< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:31:55 +0000 (UTC)i7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)U5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS ( Message-ID: <br83cb$ood$1@pcls4.std.com>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:   >7502 >750       (the original full speed fall over one)2            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   what does this mean? -- b -Mike    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:23:54 +0000 (UTC)-, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMSn. Message-ID: <br86dq$gv4$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes in article <br83cb$ood$1@pcls4.std.com> dated Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:31:55 +0000 (UTC): / >Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:u >f >>750x3 >>750       (the original full speed fall over one) 3 >           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^e >o >what does this mean?s  H There's a rumor that the VAX 750 outperformed the more expensive VAX 780J until DEC "fixed" the problem by inserting some NOOP instructions into the 750's microcode.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:58:30 +0000e) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>-5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMSa> Message-ID: <iyNBb.712$526.4071@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:wJ > There's a rumor that the VAX 750 outperformed the more expensive VAX 780L > until DEC "fixed" the problem by inserting some NOOP instructions into the > 750's microcode.  E With the VAX 8500 that was actually true (re-released as the VAX 8530  without the microcode NOPs).  C With the VAX-11/750, the various bits of microcode are somewhere ineE the various printsets. Shouldn't be too hard to find the NOPs if theyhH are there and then verify the actual microcode against the printsets :-)  B I suspect that it was really just a deliberately more conservativeD design than it might have needed to be. The VAX 8600 showed how late# you could be by being ambitious :-)e   Antonio    --   ---------------c- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:10:24 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ?3 Message-ID: <Q4LBb.215057$361.36244@news.chello.at>   f In article <rnGBb.10441$fK6.4782@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> writes:L >What version of V7.3-2 are you running? Is it possible that you are running >a field test variant?   Yup, is possible.n  J >We have discovered similar problem late September and the fix is shipping >with the official V7.3-2 kit.5 >DCL link date should be 9-Oct-2003 (my birthday ;-).o  G That might be the reason, why I had problems reproducing it at will ;-) ' I've no more fieldtest systems at home.a  J I narrowed it down to CLOSE/DISPOSITION=DELETE used once let all followingH CLOSEs (regardless if /DISPOSITION=KEEP was specified or omitted) deleteD the files (even the running command procedure on exit). Removing theI /DISPOSITION=DELETE and it was working. And then you solved the puzzle...n   Many Thanks, Guy. / Better service than with a support contract ;-)s   -- c Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.684 ************************