1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 12 Dec 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 686       Contents:2 Re: %ANALDISK-W-READHOME, error reading home block Advanced Server 7.3A Problem? G Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory  Re: Another search enhancement+ Re: Can I do X-windows on my PC via DECnet? * Re: CAPPS-II will require 3 new directives# Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system. # Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system. # Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system. # Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system. : Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BOD Re: Ignorance is BLISS...  Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: J F M e z e i domain theft Re: lib$spawn particulars  Re: Malaysia orders 6 A380s  Re: Mozilla cache behaviour  Re: OpenVMS org  Re: OpenVMS org  Re: OpenVMS org  Re: OpenVMS org  Re: OpenVMS org & Pathworks for Mac / MSA extremely slow Re: Ping: VAXman Re: Ping: VAXman Re: Ping: VAXman Re: Replacement for CSWING?   Re: Results of SAN vendor survey Scott McNealy;s Dilemma  Re: Scott McNealy;s Dilemma 9 Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday - Re: The end of the road for 767 - and Boeing?  Re: Turbochannel SCSI , Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS1 What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ? 5 Re: What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ? 5 Re: What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ? ; Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ? # Re: Re:[Gone OT] SEARCH enhancement   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:15:34 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> ; Subject: Re: %ANALDISK-W-READHOME, error reading home block 0 Message-ID: <fsmdndagffAKZ0WiRVn-gw@comcast.com>  G The first thing I'd do is make a backup and hope that it will complete!   F With a known good backup, you could try the ANALYZE /MEDIA utility to G exercise the disk.  If the bad block has been revectored and there are  F no futher problems  you can restore your backup.  I would hesitate to < use it in any application where you would care if it failed.  A You didn't say what kind of disk it is. I'm assuming it's out of  F warranty, if it ever had a warranty.  If it's an RL02 or an RA81, you @ might inquire if the Smithsonian will accept a donation and get H something a little better to replace it.  If it's an RZ series disk you " might try E-bay for a replacement.  
 Ray wrote:  I >A drive went into Mount verify timeout with a couple thousand errors.  I D >mounted it and it complained about a bad home block and said it wasE >using the backup home block.  Seemed to be working fine since and no B >more errors until I did an analyze/disk /repair.  I received the  >following error.  > = >%ANALDISK-W-READHOME, error reading home block, VBN 2, RVN 1  >-SYSTEM-F-PARITY, parity error  > C >Should I just replace the drive, or is there any hope?  How do you  >fix a bad home block, init it?  >  >Ray >    >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:57:12 GMT 8 From: "Tom Simpson" <thomas.simpson1@nospam.comcast.net>& Subject: Advanced Server 7.3A Problem?0 Message-ID: <Hn8Cb.504298$HS4.3901762@attbi_s01>  A We recently upgraded VMS to 7.3-1 and Advanced Server 7.3A eco 2. I Everything is running ok, but since the upgrade I've noticed that several H PCs are unable to map shares during the PC boot cycle.  If you check theJ share after booting using Windows Explorer, the red X goes away.  In otherL words, open Windows explorer, you see the share, but it is marked with a redK X.  Click on it, and it opens the share ok, the red X disappears.  This has I been reported on Windows 2000 only so far.  Advanced Server should not be L that busy that is timing out connections.  We only have about 50 PC users on a 2 node ES40 cluster.  F Obviously it's not a big problem, only a nuisance.  I was wondering if6 anyone else has anyone else noticed a similar problem?   Regards, Tom    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 13:22:04 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)P Subject: Re: Another DCL request: A way to get the .dir of the current directory= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0312111322.23a98a56@posting.google.com>   v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<d3Gla9ZMHkK$@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <b096a4ee.0312101533.7eef8e1d@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > I > > The DCL solution for this is given in "Writing Real Programs in DCL", I > > 2nd edition, section 13.2.1, but I believe it is only good for ODS-2.  > F >    A DCL solution has probably been coded more times than we care to >    count.   E Well, the reason I mentioned it is that the same book warns us not to B do our own file-spec parsing, to always use F$PARSE. We are warnedC that if we do our own parsing we stand a good change of overlooking F something or risking incompatibility with future changes. So I thoughtD that the method given in the book would be the best method and worth seeking out. That's all.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 11 DEC 2003 19:38:31 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> ' Subject: Re: Another search enhancement 2 Message-ID: <11DEC03.19383185@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  ; In a previous article, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  >    >    > >-----Original Message----- E > >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org] - > >Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:11 AM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > >Subject: RE: Another search enhancement > >  > > B > >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEEMIKAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom # > >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: I > >> The search string is an expression.  If you are going to permit such D > >> forms, my view is that the correct way is to implement regular  > >expressionsE > >> in a consistent, extensivlw manner.  After all, you will likely   > >need such aD > >> parser anyway, (You must already have one?)  Someone suggested  > >using egrep, M > >> I suppose that is OK, but if so, why extend SEARCH?  I suppose you could 	 > >> just 
 > >> alias/ > >> sear/regex file expr  to   egrep expr file  > >>  ( > >> and fix up the output and whatever. > > G > >   Guy's wildcards are consistent with DCL.  Regular expressions are H > >   not.  If you want re, use grep (get it from gnu).  As a native VMSA > >   DCL command SEARCH should be consistent with DCL, not UNIX.  >   I > I didn't say they weren't, what I said was that if you are going to use H > expressions in the search string then do it completely, not ad hoc and > piecemeal   G While I'll certainly find use for Guy's current wildcard enhancement to I SEARCH, I really agree with Tom here.  Regular expressions are one of the F reasons I find myself using PERL more often instead of DCL (another isH speed of execution).  Just because VMS hasn't had regular expressions inG the past doesn't mean that having them in the future isn't a good idea.   G Guy - Any chance of backporting the change to 7.2 and/or 7.3 in a patch  kit?   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:28:12 +0100 ( From: "H Vlems" <hvlems.nieuw@zonnet.nl>4 Subject: Re: Can I do X-windows on my PC via DECnet?9 Message-ID: <bragmd$199o3$1@ID-143435.news.uni-berlin.de>   1 "Didier Morandi" <no@spam.com> schreef in bericht . news:3fd706ee$0$29068$636a55ce@news.free.fr...$ > Given the following configuration: >  > a VAX 	 > a PC/XP B > DECnet and MOTIF on the VAX and Pathworks + a X Client on the PC > a piece of Ethernet  > no TCP/IP  > $ > Can I do X-Windows on my PC with a- > $ set displ/create/transp=DECnet/node=my_PC  >  > Did someone experienced this?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > D. >    Didier  I Pathworks for Windows includes DECnet and LAT for the PC. As I understand E it, DECnet wil no longer install on W2000 and later versions. It does 5 install on W95/W98/WME and WindowsNT 4 (all flavors). I The ReflectionX suite supports DECnet (if installed before). Just run the H ReflectionX client manager on the PC and you can create a DECterm from aH VAX/VMS or AXP/VMS host with the $ set display/create command and then $D create/terminal or run the window manager to get a logon screen from DECwindows.    Hans   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:50:01 +0100 (CET) % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> 3 Subject: Re: CAPPS-II will require 3 new directives 8 Message-ID: <ad2670835f57f39cba542a98581150f8@dizum.com>  - More trolling and domain theft from JF Mezei:   * Message-ID: <3FD8F9B4.67C4CAE0@nobody.com>  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.com> Organization: nla0: * X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en  MIME-Version: 1.0  Newsgroups: rec.travel.air3 Subject: Re: CAPPS-II will require 3 new directives = References: <slrnbthff4.3gc.edward@nitrogen.airtreks-inc.com> * Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 	 Lines: 16 % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:11:55 -0500  NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.11.160.74 M X-Trace: news.nnrp.ca 1071184143 66.11.160.74 (Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:09:03 EST) 0 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:09:03 EST   Edward Hasbrouck wrote:   H Many thanks for your update and your work on those police state project.  N Have you contacted the potential opponents to Mr Bush (Dean, Clark etc) to see% if they have a stance on this issue ?    What about the ACLU ?   M I find it interesting that the USA government is so hungry to get information L from all flights, but hasn't shown any great interest in simply managing all entry/exits from its country.   F Perhaps it thinks it is easier to coerce airlines to hand over alreadyG computerised information as opposed to collecting such information from ) immigration and setting up exit controls.   B                            ---------------------------------------  J nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this% domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>    Domain Name: NOBODY.COM   * Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:% Southport Technologies tdl@canada.com  314 Queen Street South	 Suite 158  Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9  CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061   Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995.   Also report him to:    abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.com    Jean-Francois Mezei  86 Harwood Gate  Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3  (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLING    jfmezei@istop.com  jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com  jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca  nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com> ' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com> " Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org> ' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org> ' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org> % Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>  Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org> ! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org> # Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>   Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>  Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org> $ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org> ! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>   Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org> % Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org> $ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com> & Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org> % Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org> & Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org> ' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org> ( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil> ' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org> % Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org> $ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum> ( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org> " Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org> & Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> ) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org> ' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org> " Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org> * Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>  Q <queue@continuum.net>  Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:03:23 -0600 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> , Subject: Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system.2 Message-ID: <3FD8BF7B.83C8429@applied-synergy.com>   Dave Pitts wrote:  >  > Hello: > I > I've got a couple of MicroVAX II systems with questionable disk drives, D > RD54s I think. Are there any disks on the market today that can be% > substituted for these older drives?   H With your existing, RQDX3 controller, not really.  The RD54 (aka, Maxtor1 XT2190), was the largest capacity MFM drive made.   F You can add a SCSI controller to you MV II and use SCSI drives.  These0 tend to be smaller, higher capacity, and faster.  ; The RD54 is actually a pretty reliable drive.  Why are they 
 questionable?   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Dec 2003 18:14:57 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann), Subject: Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system.0 Message-ID: <brac71$9q7$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  Q In article <iP2dnRZ1Ha_ONUWiRVn-tw@csd.net>, Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> writes: H >I've got a couple of MicroVAX II systems with questionable disk drives,C >RD54s I think. Are there any disks on the market today that can be $ >substituted for these older drives?  L There have been Q-Bus to SCSI converter cards. If you find one of those thisK might help. But note that the system disk shoud not exceed two gigabytes in  size.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:21:57 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org, Subject: Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system.) Message-ID: <03121116215751@antinode.org>   < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)  N > There have been Q-Bus to SCSI converter cards. If you find one of those thisM > might help. But note that the system disk shoud not exceed two gigabytes in  > size.   H    Why?  The SCSI adapters I've seen (CMD, Emulex) present DU devices to% the OS.  Whence comes the size limit?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 16:02:41 -0800( From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM>, Subject: Re: Disks for a MicroVAX II system.- Message-ID: <86he06nbry.fsf@skylane.kjsl.com>   > gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes:    S > In article <iP2dnRZ1Ha_ONUWiRVn-tw@csd.net>, Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> writes: J > >I've got a couple of MicroVAX II systems with questionable disk drives,E > >RD54s I think. Are there any disks on the market today that can be & > >substituted for these older drives? > N > There have been Q-Bus to SCSI converter cards. If you find one of those thisM > might help. But note that the system disk shoud not exceed two gigabytes in  > size.   ? I belive that restriction applies only to certain models of the  VAX(station) 3100.  K The QBus SCSI host adapters I'm familiar with (Emulex UC07 and derivatives) J didn't have such restrictions that I remember. But then, at the time I was@ working with them the 760MB Maxtor drives were considered "big".  B The largest ST421 interface drive I know of would be the RD54 (akaC Maxtor XT2190), which has long been out of production. I've no idea  what availability is like.  < I'd look for a QBus SCSI host adapter, and some SCSI drives.   -jav   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:13:46 GMT 3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 8 Message-ID: <vqehtv83hq8cfgjdn3r1jtm2pef6ibsmj1@4ax.com>  D On 10 Dec 2003 15:53:30 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  r >In article <cf15391e.0312101337.77a045ac@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:i >> young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<mpyWaSqI3hah@eisner.encompasserve.org>... A >>> 	The benchmark is somewhat questionable.  Greg Pfister in "In B >>> 	Search of Clusters" points out the "cluster-cheat" that is soB >>> 	prevelant.  TPC council much to their credit break things out> >>> 	in clustered and non-clustered for our viewing pleasure.  >>  E >> I quoted only non-clustered numbers.  I haven't even mentioned the H >> even-higher and significantly lower-cost Linux result HP just posted, >> which is a clustered result.  >>  B >> And if the "cluster cheat" is so "prevalent", why don't lots ofD >> entries and lots of vendors appear in the TPC's clustered resultsI >> list?  Could it be that folks like Andrew (from Sun) and Pfister (from E >> IBM) have a not-so-hidden ulterior motive behind their complaints?  >  > = >	Well it is known that Sun's performance sucks so badly they 4 >	stayed away from TPC-C and limp along at SPEC CPU. > ? >	But Pfister's complaint was/is legit.  You certainly wouldn't E >	"run" databases like that in the real world (if I recall correctly, ; >	multiple copies of the same tablespace.  One per node?)    >	Details in his book.  ? This may be true for the 'other' cluster benchmarks, but the HP E Itanium/Linux/Oracle benchmark takes advantage of RAC.  There is only B one copy of the database, no local copies, no duplicaton, only theD history table uses Oracle's partioning.  It is really of proof pointA Oracle RAC being able to scale.  Does this make RAC a soltion for F everyone? Larry Ellison would want you to think so, but I don't.  WhatH would be really interesting is to see how this configuration performs onG TPC-H.  Do I have any idea of how it would perform? No, but it would be  interesting.   Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Center  Hewlett-Packard Company  ----- 6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:27:53 GMT & From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 8 Message-ID: <9ughtvs69cj3g94n6ohn4035ekmlnpq9ol@4ax.com>  H On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:05:59 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > ? >"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 >news:cf15391e.0312081306.b7d4d6d@posting.google.com... 8 >> "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message/ >news:<saidnW1SOPlYb06iRVn-vA@metrocast.net>... J >> > Oh, dear - another press release that's a bit moldy around the edges. >>D >> A tablespoon of bleach in a quart of water should kill that mold. >>G >> I'm even sorrier at my delay in getting this particular announcement E >> out to you, as I know you were eagerly waiting to see which vendor > >> would get the bragging rights to 1 million TPC-C tpm first, > F >Not really.  1) I knew about the result a couple of days after it wasA >posted.  2) As I already noted, it doesn't say much for Itanic's L >capabilities (or perhaps Superdome's - take your pick) since it takes twiceI >as many Itanics to beat the POWER4+ system by a mere 30% (and, as I also M >noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor POWER5 K >systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating in absolute K >as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhanced Superdomes).   K Business manager:  How many *business* transactions can I get for $X (USD)?   K IT:  Well you can get over 1 million on this HP server for that amount, but 4 on a per-processor basis it's not all that great....  J Bus. Mgr:  What other vendor provides that kind of throughput and how much
 will it cost?   G IT:  Er.... so far the HP server is the only one to show it can achieve  that much processing.   G Like the business manager gives a crapola about per-processor technical F stuff.  They know that Intel is commited to that chip.  They know thatK it'll only get better.  They'll invest in the servers if the $$/transaction  compares well enough.   E And it kinda shows that the current tanium CAN provide business-grade  performance. --- jls 0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:38:31 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 2 Message-ID: <4LadnQLGG7AsWkWiRVn-uA@metrocast.net>  @ "Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in message2 news:vqehtv83hq8cfgjdn3r1jtm2pef6ibsmj1@4ax.com...F > On 10 Dec 2003 15:53:30 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote:   ...   A > > But Pfister's complaint was/is legit.  You certainly wouldn't G > > "run" databases like that in the real world (if I recall correctly, ; > > multiple copies of the same tablespace.  One per node?)  > > Details in his book. > A > This may be true for the 'other' cluster benchmarks, but the HP G > Itanium/Linux/Oracle benchmark takes advantage of RAC.  There is only D > one copy of the database, no local copies, no duplicaton, only the) > history table uses Oracle's partioning.   L I had wondered about that, and it explains why HP has elected to reenter the? heretofore rather dubious realm of TPC-C clustered submissions.      It is really of proof point ! > Oracle RAC being able to scale.   H That's the real question, I think.  The fact that a different clusteringH *approach* is being used is interesting but does not in itself guaranteeK that it is any more relevant than the old one was.  The fundamental problem J with the old clustered approach was that TPC-C simply doesn't exercise theI database very realistically in the ways that typical OLTP applications do F (and that are fairly unfriendly to the old-style clustering approach):L given that TPC-C itself hasn't changed, the burden of proof would seem to beK on HP to demonstrate that in the RAC environment TPC-C somehow becomes more G typical of such representative OLTP applications (that aren't nearly as K easily or completely partitionable as TPC-C is) than it is in the old-style  clustered environment.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:52:51 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 2 Message-ID: <c-2dnZ4UvYyQVkWiRVn-sQ@metrocast.net>  3 "jlsue" <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 2 news:9ughtvs69cj3g94n6ohn4035ekmlnpq9ol@4ax.com...   ...   F > Business manager:  How many *business* transactions can I get for $X (USD)?  6 Better keep your day job:  you don't have a clue here.  J The question the business manager asks is *how much he has to spend to runI the business* (with some margin for growth), not how many transactions he K can get for $X.  And unless he needs in excess of 768K tpmC (let me know if L you ever find such a requirement in the real world), the fact that Superdome, can exceed this level is utterly irrelevant.   ...   I > Like the business manager gives a crapola about per-processor technical  > stuff.  K That part is correct.  However, it's also irrelevant when the subject under J discussion is the competitiveness of processors (as it was here before youJ decided to veer off into the weeds).  But since you've chosen to introduceH fallacious business arguments here, I'll continue to address them below.  1 >  They know that Intel is commited to that chip.    For now, anyway.     They know that > it'll only get better.  K But considerably more slowly than POWERx will, according to both companies' 	 roadmaps.   5   They'll invest in the servers if the $$/transaction  > compares well enough.   L No, jeff:  as I noted above, they don't care any more about $/tpmC than theyI do about tpmC/processor:  they care about $, period, and they'll purchase J the least expensive (reputable) system that can meet their business needs.   > G > And it kinda shows that the current tanium CAN provide business-grade  > performance.  G I never said that it couldn't.  And so can the current SPARC - but that 9 doesn't make it a paragon of processor perfection either.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:03:33 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs * Message-ID: <3FD8CD9E.3080609@prodigy.net>   jlsue wrote:  J > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:05:59 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> > wrote: >  > @ >>"Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message8 >>news:cf15391e.0312081306.b7d4d6d@posting.google.com... >>8 >>>"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message >>0 >>news:<saidnW1SOPlYb06iRVn-vA@metrocast.net>... >>I >>>>Oh, dear - another press release that's a bit moldy around the edges.  >>> D >>>A tablespoon of bleach in a quart of water should kill that mold. >>> G >>>I'm even sorrier at my delay in getting this particular announcement E >>>out to you, as I know you were eagerly waiting to see which vendor > >>>would get the bragging rights to 1 million TPC-C tpm first, >>G >>Not really.  1) I knew about the result a couple of days after it was B >>posted.  2) As I already noted, it doesn't say much for Itanic'sM >>capabilities (or perhaps Superdome's - take your pick) since it takes twice J >>as many Itanics to beat the POWER4+ system by a mere 30% (and, as I alsoN >>noted, the situation will only get worse next year, when 64-processor POWER5L >>systems will be competing against - and thoroughly humiliating in absoluteL >>as well as per-processor performance - the minimally-enhanced Superdomes). >  > M > Business manager:  How many *business* transactions can I get for $X (USD)?  > M > IT:  Well you can get over 1 million on this HP server for that amount, but 6 > on a per-processor basis it's not all that great....  C When it is later learned that under realistic *business* conditions G nowhere near 1 million transactions are possible, IT loses his job. <g>    > L > Bus. Mgr:  What other vendor provides that kind of throughput and how much > will it cost?  > I > IT:  Er.... so far the HP server is the only one to show it can achieve  > that much processing.  > I > Like the business manager gives a crapola about per-processor technical H > stuff.  They know that Intel is commited to that chip.  They know thatM > it'll only get better.  They'll invest in the servers if the $$/transaction  > compares well enough.  > G > And it kinda shows that the current tanium CAN provide business-grade  > performance.	 > --- jls 2 > The preceding message was personal opinion only.8 > I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,   > and certainly not my employer./ > (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)      --  G After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have F concluded we must conceal our e-mail address.  Our true address is theF mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol.  It's a shame such( steps are necessary.          ...Charlie   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:17:42 -0500 * From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs ) Message-ID: <3FD8ED03.464561DD@istop.com>   
 A comment:  H When a company start to make claims that are so high, such claims become% rather meaningless to real customers.   N If a bank is used to measuring power in tens of transactions per second, if HPN comes in and says it can do a million, that number has no credibility. Can youA really feed a million transactions per second though your telecom  infrastructure ?  K Also, I personally have no idea if this is sustainable number (3600 million N transactions per hour) or whether they were able to keep the 1 million tps forL just one second (taking advantage of an already loaded cache and using cache7 to write results and not waiting for it to go to disk).   K When IBM does performance stunts, it is with machines such as Code Blue for N chess etc, and this is clearly labeled "research". It gives IBM the image thatM it does have a very active R&D and that the research will trickle down to the K commercial products. A bit like car companies building formula 1 race cars. R Such cars are useless to the consumers, but they give the car maker a great image.  H But HP no longer has any image of R&D (all the real stuff shifted out toK Agilent). It is just a commodity box assembler. That image will continue to I strenghten in the next couple of years as PaRisc and Alpha are completely A wound down. HP has effectivelly outsourced all its R&D to Intel.    @ instead of "invent", HP should use "ink & toner" below its logo.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:36:14 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs * Message-ID: <3FD8F168.6030400@prodigy.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  <snip>M > Also, I personally have no idea if this is sustainable number (3600 million P > transactions per hour) or whether they were able to keep the 1 million tps forN > just one second (taking advantage of an already loaded cache and using cache9 > to write results and not waiting for it to go to disk).h <snip>  A I think that's addressed in the disclosure document (although I Io> haven't looked -- I believe it should be in there according to TPC rules).o   -- rG After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I haveiF concluded we must conceal our e-mail address.  Our true address is theF mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol.  It's a shame such( steps are necessary.          ...Charlie   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:36:53 -0000p4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUso? Message-ID: <tc7Cb.1521$526.8959@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>e  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> L wrote in message > > At this point in its evolution, I think TPC-C is mostly forl> > > "bragging rights" (and rather expensive-to-obtain bragging= > > rights at that).  If anybody chooses systems based on it,C > > I think they are misguided.  > >P >p8 > So in other words its worthless, bragging rights isn't > a measure of capacity is it. >h	 > regardsP > Andrew Harrisoni >o  8 I thought that was the point of most current benchmarks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:38:28 -0000l4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs ? Message-ID: <Xd7Cb.1523$526.8697@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>   K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>eH wrote in message news:bra0f1> One huge hole in TPC-C for example is that there is no requirementpC > to configure the DBMS for recovery, something you would obviouslyS; > need to do for a very large mission critical OLTP system.g >A; > But I assmue you know all this having done your research.  >v	 > regardsc > Andrew Harrisone   Recovery???;- and I thought you were an expert on clusters.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:43:47 -0000 4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUsh? Message-ID: <Yi7Cb.1525$526.9317@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>s  - "CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in messageV$ news:3FD8CD9E.3080609@prodigy.net...  E > When it is later learned that under realistic *business* conditions-I > nowhere near 1 million transactions are possible, IT loses his job. <g>3 >:   Really??  K Since when do politically astute executives lose their job just because theW* facts don't match what they have promised.! Think Of Curly, Carly etc........s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:17:02 GMTo3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com>hC Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUss8 Message-ID: <s9qhtvsf0n09hvia7jr2gqkg8e7l95k96d@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:38:31 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > A >"Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in messages3 >news:vqehtv83hq8cfgjdn3r1jtm2pef6ibsmj1@4ax.com...a   >  It is really of proof point" >> Oracle RAC being able to scale. >wI >That's the real question, I think.  The fact that a different clusteringfI >*approach* is being used is interesting but does not in itself guaranteetL >that it is any more relevant than the old one was.  The fundamental problemK >with the old clustered approach was that TPC-C simply doesn't exercise theiJ >database very realistically in the ways that typical OLTP applications doG >(and that are fairly unfriendly to the old-style clustering approach):rM >given that TPC-C itself hasn't changed, the burden of proof would seem to beTL >on HP to demonstrate that in the RAC environment TPC-C somehow becomes moreH >typical of such representative OLTP applications (that aren't nearly asL >easily or completely partitionable as TPC-C is) than it is in the old-style >clustered environment.a  F For any benchmark to be popular it has to be trivial in the sense thatE it must be inexpensive (relatively) to implement and be capable of beVB sized programatically.  If it is too expensive - in terms of time,H people, or equipment - not enough vendors will be willing to run it, andE its usefulness will wither for a lack of data points.  If it can't benH scaled for capacity and volume in an automated fashion, it again will be too expensive to run.     G TPC-C was a decent benchmark way back when.  (For those without a sense G of the history, it is an outgrowth of Tandem's wanting to find a way tosE quantify and market its systems as financial transaction processors).nH It just wasn't built to accurately emulate the real-life conditions of aA high transaction load.  For example, these 1M+ results use 2,000+f spindles.     F The Federalized database is a problem, as it relies on the locality ofG transactions.  It is also not a clean solution as you need as resolving0F process to accomodate any transaction that must go across systems.  It@ was a clever solution for an OS that only had 1 to 8 CPU systemsD availabble to it; but, that is the problem, it is a very specialized	 solution.   D As for RAC, I believe that RAC is becoming a valid way of addressingH clustering in a fashion that translates to the 'real' world.  Right now,C though, you are trading the cost of hardware for the cost of OracleuF licenses.  A RAC license is twice a 'regular' license. A big factor inE the cheaper cost of the cluster benchmark is the decision to use less   expensive disks in the solution.   Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Centert Hewlett-Packard Companym -----d6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:54:07 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUsa( Message-ID: <3FD911B9.30607@prodigy.net>   Chris Casey wrote:  / > "CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message & > news:3FD8CD9E.3080609@prodigy.net... >  > E >>When it is later learned that under realistic *business* conditionseI >>nowhere near 1 million transactions are possible, IT loses his job. <g>e >> > 
 > Really?? > M > Since when do politically astute executives lose their job just because the>, > facts don't match what they have promised.# > Think Of Curly, Carly etc........k >  >   5 Since when are IT executives politically astute?  <g>m     -- 0G After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I havehF concluded we must conceal our e-mail address.  Our true address is theF mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol.  It's a shame such( steps are necessary.          ...Charlie   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 19:55:40 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUse3 Message-ID: <Hf7Clqlh3yiq@eisner.encompasserve.org>o   In article <br9m7m$hje$2@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Rob Young wrote:t >> In article <cf15391e.0312101337.77a045ac@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: >> ri >>>young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<mpyWaSqI3hah@eisner.encompasserve.org>...A >>>aA >>>>	The benchmark is somewhat questionable.  Greg Pfister in "InoB >>>>	Search of Clusters" points out the "cluster-cheat" that is soB >>>>	prevelant.  TPC council much to their credit break things out> >>>>	in clustered and non-clustered for our viewing pleasure.  >>>nE >>>I quoted only non-clustered numbers.  I haven't even mentioned theeH >>>even-higher and significantly lower-cost Linux result HP just posted, >>>which is a clustered result.f >>>(B >>>And if the "cluster cheat" is so "prevalent", why don't lots ofD >>>entries and lots of vendors appear in the TPC's clustered resultsI >>>list?  Could it be that folks like Andrew (from Sun) and Pfister (fromnE >>>IBM) have a not-so-hidden ulterior motive behind their complaints?  >>   >> m >> G? >> 	Well it is known that Sun's performance sucks so badly theyI6 >> 	stayed away from TPC-C and limp along at SPEC CPU. > < > You were doing OK Rob when you questioned TPC-C's validity1 > sadly you then spoilt it with this peice of BS.i >   ? 	Pleeze.  Andrew , if it was BS you would be quick to point outuE 	why it is BS.  Of course it isn't or you would be trotting somethingeA 	out for us to chew on.  Sun was noticeably absent from TPC-C for 5 	quite sometime.  Any Sun SPEC CPU mark is laughable.M  2 > Sun has in fact concentrated on Apps benchmarks.  ? 	Sure - our British Champion's greatest technique in his littley+ 	bag of tricks.  Talk about something else.t   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 20:25:14 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)CC Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUss3 Message-ID: <HGd++9VpWaXJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n   In article <bra151$ld9$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes: > Keith Parris wrote:C   > B >> And if the "cluster cheat" is so "prevalent", why don't lots ofD >> entries and lots of vendors appear in the TPC's clustered resultsI >> list?  Could it be that folks like Andrew (from Sun) and Pfister (from-E >> IBM) have a not-so-hidden ulterior motive behind their complaints?  >  > * > Mainly because HP withdrew most of them. > B > In addition the TPC-C rules only require you to declare a result< > as a cluster result if you use multiple clustered servers. > D > If like HPQ and Sequent you publish a result that uses a clusteredC > database but in a single box (bad NUMA) you don't have to declaresA > this as a clustered result. There are a number of these results B > which are more of a cheat than a declared cluster result becauseC > most customers don't realise that the big SMP system they thoughtt= > could do x TPM can only do it if its carved up into lots ofn > little DBMS instances. >   A 	And a perspective on the Sequent NUMA numbers can be found here:r  W http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=36DD99C3.5B6968EB%40usNOSPAM.ibm.com&output=gplaint  < 	Pfister was of the opinion the cheat wasn't used because he 	states in that link:d  H "Actually, the reason I suspect the "cheat" was NOT used is that SequentH got such bad scaling. Cases that use the (COMPLETELY LEGAL BY TPC-RULES)C "cheat" get much better scaling -- like the Alphaserver Cluster youn quote."e  A 	I don't know the end result but publishing it as a non-clusteredu( 	result may very well have been correct.   				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:55:28 -0500r* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUsr2 Message-ID: <ieydnTFiasuGs0SiRVn-ig@metrocast.net>  @ "Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in message2 news:s9qhtvsf0n09hvia7jr2gqkg8e7l95k96d@4ax.com...   ...     A big factor inG > the cheaper cost of the cluster benchmark is the decision to use lessn" > expensive disks in the solution.  K The storage for the cluster submission appears to cost about half what thatiK for the Superdome submission does - but that's hardly all.  The cluster RAM0K costs only about 40% as much per GB, and they use only 3/4 as much of it in.I total, the processors also cost only about 40% as much (for the identicalo@ parts), and the service&support price is only about 15% as much.  K The cluster submission $/tpmC would be less than half that of the SuperdomeeJ submission, except that while Oracle's system-level discount is consistentG (at about 25%) across the two systems HP's is not:  it discounts the HPpE portions of its Superdome system over 50%, but the HP portions of itsbL cluster system only about 20%.  Whether 50+% discounts are actually standardD for Superdomes or reserved to make special TPC-C configurations look/ price-competitive would be interesting to know.n   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:52:52 GMTf3 From: Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> C Subject: Re: HP tops 1 million tpmC on Superdome with Itanium2 CPUs 8 Message-ID: <q2iitvk330m2kumj8jh3chahc2ubheg711@4ax.com>  H On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:55:28 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >aA >"Robert Klute" <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in messagem3 >news:s9qhtvsf0n09hvia7jr2gqkg8e7l95k96d@4ax.com...a >n >... >. > A big factor in H >> the cheaper cost of the cluster benchmark is the decision to use less# >> expensive disks in the solution.> >vL >The storage for the cluster submission appears to cost about half what thatL >for the Superdome submission does - but that's hardly all.  The cluster RAML >costs only about 40% as much per GB, and they use only 3/4 as much of it inJ >total, the processors also cost only about 40% as much (for the identicalA >parts), and the service&support price is only about 15% as much.h >@L >The cluster submission $/tpmC would be less than half that of the SuperdomeK >submission, except that while Oracle's system-level discount is consistentsH >(at about 25%) across the two systems HP's is not:  it discounts the HPF >portions of its Superdome system over 50%, but the HP portions of itsM >cluster system only about 20%.  Whether 50+% discounts are actually standardoE >for Superdomes or reserved to make special TPC-C configurations looko0 >price-competitive would be interesting to know.    D As I remember, but you should check it out, if the price/discount isG published in the disclosure they have to give it to you.  Of course anytH caveats listed in the disclosure apply - large quantity, only this exact configuration, whatever.   Robert Klute Cupertino Solution Center< Hewlett-Packard Companym -----t6 The opinions are those of the poster, not the company.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:04:24 +0800l, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BODd- Message-ID: <8765gn9l4n.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  7 rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:c  ; > I never saw anything from Compaq or HP claiming E79 was ae@ > "replacement" for EV8.  And EV8 was NEVER anything but far-offC > roadmap fodder.  There was a team of engineers working on it, butoF > schedules and specific features were completely up in the air.  None: > of which will keep a plan from being shown on a roadmap.  7 Wasn't there an anouncment that EV8 was `fully funded'?n  @ Anyway, it is all trash in the wind. Everyone now knows that the@ perfidity dept of Cumpuke has tranfered full forece into the newE hp. So nothing that is said by them is worth anything unless it is in-3 a signed contract with significant penalty clauses.1  E At least it gives a method for knowing when they know they are lying.:   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:32:23 -0000v4 From: "Chris Casey" <chris.caseyNOSPAM@ntlworld.com>C Subject: Re: I wonder if this HP director will resign from HP's BODd? Message-ID: <e87Cb.1514$526.9098@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net>e  5 "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message-& news:3FD81B87.7060108@tsoft-inc.com...I > They were/are fools and idiots.  They wanted rid of Alpha so badly thatt theyH > just didn't care if things went awry.  They weren't just gambling with	 their own L > business, they gambled with my future, your future, and the future of manyL > people and companies, and, they just didn't give a damn.  They didn't care aboutqI > the unplanned expenses they forced upon customers.  Think the customersD didn'tJ > get upset?  Going from around $4 billion in high margin revenue in 2000, and aoG > modest upswing in sales, to around $2 billion to $2.5 billion in higha margin' > revenue is a pretty strong statement.e  J Why should they have cared. With the amount of money that they lined their? pockets with it's obvious they didn't care about anything else.t   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 18:39:03 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>-" Subject: Re: Ignorance is BLISS.... Message-ID: <mdd3cbqhqlk.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   > > In article <mddptevuu2y.fsf@panix5.panix.com>, Rich Alderson) > <news@alderson.users.panix.com> writes:1  A > > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:a  J > >>    Just what would you do with the BLISS-10 source anyhow?  You got a' > >>    KL-10 running in your basement?G  = > > Runs very nicely on KLH10 or on the SimH PDP-10 emulator.o  % >    Yeah, I thought SIMH did PDP-10.u    >    TENEX, TOPS-10, or TOPS-20?  N TOPS-20 v. 4.1, Tops-10 v. 7.04, and ITS.  I don't think TENEX was ever ported= to the KS-10 processor (DECSYSTEM-2020), which SimH emulates.l  C Which makes me think, "Who has the sources to TENEX, anyway?  BBN?"-   -- -. Rich Alderson					    | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |< news@alderson.users.panix.com			    | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |7 			 --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:48:58 GMTh! From: mrtrav <mrtrav@mtr.mrt.trm>a' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain thefth> Message-ID: <u_2Cb.69975$J%1.41300@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>   Always Lurking wrote:@   > Nomen Nescio wrote:v > I >> nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of I >> thisr( >> domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com> >> > $ > What a sad fucking wanker you are. >   " That would be an insult to wankers   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:40:02 +0100 (CET)t% From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>i' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain theft 8 Message-ID: <6224a2e4c3f5df11ce3a499421e7f325@dizum.com>  " mrtrav <mrtrav@mtr.mrt.trm> wrote:   >r >t >Always Lurking wrote: >v >> Nomen Nescio wrote: >> cJ >>> nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of  >>> this) >>> domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>s >>>2 >> e% >> What a sad fucking wanker you are.  >>   >t# >That would be an insult to wankersf   Speaking of wankers....   @ About Netkook Troll/Usenet Flooder Michael "mrt/mrtravel" Voight  H "mrt/mrtravel" are the regular usenet handles of a brainless troll whoseH real name is Michael Voight <mvoight@cisco.com> .  He works for Cisco inJ San Jose and apparently they don't keep him busy enough so he has to trollH usenet when he isn't looking for foreign brides to marry in exchange forK money in alt.visa.us.marriage-based  and alt.personals.big-folks, or tryingiG to pick up minors in alt.personals.teens or any of the number of creepy@H newsgroups he frequents.  Some of his other trolling aliases are NetworkN Guy, starrystarrynight@sbcglobal.net, sleepydoc <sleepdoc@verizon.net>, jlhuntM <jlhunt@huntbros.com>, and Lost 5 of 8 <seeme@loveme.fun>, mrt <mrt@mrt.com>,"L news.sf.sbcglobal.net <none@none.none>, and not-nomen <none@none.none>.  His5 latest one is UCLAisthebest <uclaisthebest@ucla.edd>.   ! His phone number is 831-252-2606.e  F He's got a daughter in Orange County that one of his ex-wives had the D intelligence to take away from him.  Lord only knows what could haveK happened to her if she had continued to live with the kook.  The other kidseH he has belong to his previous Russian sleazy brides, and since they comeG and go so do the kids.  It wouldn't hurt to let Cisco know what kind ofk@ deviant sexual pervert maniac they have working for them, so....  < For starters, forward his idiotic posts to abuse@cisco.com .  A He works in technical support, so forward them to tac@cisco.com .r  @ He often posts through sbcglobal and prodigy, so forward them to2 abuse@prodigy.net and abuse@sbcglobal.net as well.  K You can also call them at 1 800 553 2447 and ask to speak with a supervisorfK and explain that you are EXTREMELY unhappy that this idiot spends his wholebH day at work playing on the internet on company time.  THEY WILL NOT LIKE THAT.h  H Then write to corporate headquarters explaining what this idiot is doingG and telling them HOW BAD IT IS FOR THEIR COMPANY IMAGE.  They will LOVEi) that you brought this to their attention:C   Cisco Systems, Inc.D 170 West Tasman Dr.o San Jose, CA 95134 USAr  G Then also call them.  You should always follow up email or letters withnK phone calls.  Always ask for supervisors or managers.  Try to get as far up  as possible.  
 (408)526-4000o (800)553-NETS or
 (800)553-6387   K Contact Investor Relations and tell them you are interested in investing inhG their company but won't do so until they get rid of this asshole who is- wasting company resources:   Cisco Systems, Inc.  Investor Relations Departmento 170 West Tasman DriveH San Jose, CA 95134-1706S Phone: (408) 526-8890C Fax: (408) 526-4545g# Email: investor-relations@cisco.como  H Might as well contact customer service too, they LOVE to hear about this type of stuff:   USA 1 800 553 6387   ic-support-us@cisco.comw cs-support-us@cisco.comf  C Then finally, send letters with copies of his nasty posts addressedo? personally to each one of the OFFICERS of the company using the@I headquarters address.  Believe me, they READ your complaints and are VERYyJ INTERESTED in them, especially if it's about one of their employees.  TheyK will take a PERSONAL interest in rooting this ASSHOLE out of their company:l   John Morgridge, Chairman John Chambers, President, CEO  Donald Valentine, Vice Chairmanw9 Larry Carter, CFO, Sr. VP-Fin. and Admin., Sec., Director 3 Richard Justice, Sr. VP, Worldwide Field Operations   	 Have fun!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:13:50 GMT ' From: Stuart Hofmann <stuart@sonic.net> ' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain theft ) Message-ID: <3FD8DE10.D372E364@sonic.net>a   Always Lurking wrote:   $ > What a sad fucking wanker you are.  O JF must have run off with his GF (or BF as the case may be).  What other reasont> for this KKK robed idiot's unrelenting grade-school petulance?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:52:21 GMTw. From: "Deep" <deep_mehtaHATESSPAM@hotmail.com>' Subject: Re: J F M e z e i domain theftlL Message-ID: <Vq7Cb.52685$r%u1.11367@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 You have WAY too much time and your hands dude...p   Deep  2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:6224a2e4c3f5df11ce3a499421e7f325@dizum.com...$ > mrtrav <mrtrav@mtr.mrt.trm> wrote: >i > >  > >e > >Always Lurking wrote: > >r > >> Nomen Nescio wrote: > >>K > >>> nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of 
 > >>> this+ > >>> domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>t > >>>r > >>' > >> What a sad fucking wanker you are.n > >> > >a% > >That would be an insult to wankerss >r > Speaking of wankers....  >hB > About Netkook Troll/Usenet Flooder Michael "mrt/mrtravel" Voight >u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 20:13:24 -0500 % From: Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@glug.org>-" Subject: Re: lib$spawn particulars( Message-ID: <7gbrqe7s97.fsf@gnufans.net>  3 usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) writes:o  D > if you are writing a multi-threaded application (which I'll assumeA > that emacs is), no other thread can be used/activated while thev > subprocess is running.  G emacs is not really multi-threaded, although it supports its own unique1G form of parallelism.  (under vms, read "unique" as "twisted". ;-)  see:   /   http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/a  G for ongoing discussion of (possibly, but the more experienced would sayl9 "not bloody likely") making emacs "truly" multi-threaded.O  G in any case, NOWAIT is what we want for implementing shell-in-a-buffer.tF it has been that way since emacs 19.  i don't remember if emacs 18 hadE shell-in-a-buffer for vms (i do remember needing to use ESC x all thel  time instead of M-x, however)...  H the sticking point is all the other stuff in emacs that has changed, andE as usual, the sometimes frustrating inelasticity of this programmer'su brain.   > [ATTACH usage]  3 thanks for the ATTACH info; i wasn't aware of that.r   thiC   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 06:29:33 +0800 : From: "Nik" <spamavoid.deletethis.mnjensen@netvigator.com>$ Subject: Re: Malaysia orders 6 A380s0 Message-ID: <brar4e$jmd1@imsp212.netvigator.com>  0 "edo" <nobody@cryptorebels.net> wrote in message9 news:d0b694e9bab6b1ec9b81329ba31815cc@cryptorebels.net...e" > More domain theft from JF Mezei:  ( Heil - Heil - Heil  Hit.. (eh)  Edo or ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:34:51 GMTC( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>$ Subject: Re: Mozilla cache behaviour, Message-ID: <va7Cb.51697$d35.48574@edtnps84>   Thanks, Bob.  H I did as you suggested and filed Bug 228220 today.  I also noticed that I the CACHE.DIR folder in the system account's Moz tree still has the same  I date as the date Moz was installed.  Looks like Moz only wants to delete   user's CACHE folders.5   Cheers,r Alderl   Bob Koehler wrote::cW > In article <JavBb.46843$bC.5641@clgrps13>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:D > D >>According to the security audit, each time Mozilla is started the H >><user>$CDEnnnn process attempts to delete the CACHE.DIR file from the J >>SYS$LOGIN:[_MOZILLA.DEFAULT.nnnnnnnn_SLT] directory.  However, the file I >>protections created by the Mozilla installation procedure do not allow   >>its owner to delete it, i.e.:  >> >  > I >    I recommend you report this to Bugzilla.  There should be a Bugzillan >    button on your browser. >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 13:02:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l Subject: Re: OpenVMS org3 Message-ID: <vFRNPAdYE2JE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <3FD7E5A2.339DC21@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:	 >> [snip]uI >> You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away ar/ >> valuable income stream - so it's not likely.. > B > If VMS is such a "valuable income stream", why does hp refuse to > advertise it?   B Presumably because they do not believe the revenue stream would be@ enhanced by advertising it.  Having sometimes spent money myselfE on advertising software and seen revenue be unrelated to advertising,o6 I am not in a position to second-guess HP on this one.  @ How many of those here assembled have chosen an operating system based on advertising ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:26:13 -0500c* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS org) Message-ID: <3FD8EF01.3E45EBDC@istop.com>e  D > Presumably because they do not believe the revenue stream would be > enhanced by advertising it.   M This isn't a question of "enhancing" revenus. It is a question of survival of H the product. VMS may have survived all that was inflicted on it (Palmer,L Capellas, murder of Alpha, HP's lack of mention of VMS), but it doesn't meanN that it will survice indefinitely. This continued treatment of VMS has alreadyJ set in motion long term plans to migrate off VMS by many customers. It hasN already set in motion plans to put new applications into a different platform. (thus less growth on VMS).  N Someone needs to hammer this into HP's heads: VMS has been severely damaged byL its mistreatement and the advertising is needed not to bring in new revenus,K but to show that HP is ready to put its money where its mouth is. Customers-G have not seen any concrete signs that HP is interested in growing VMS. t  M And when some senior HP exec admits that they are happy because the attrition L rate was lower than expected, that says a hell of a lot about what HP really wants from VMS.    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2003 00:06:18 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OpenVMS org9 Message-ID: <brb0pp$1dhd8$1@ID-135708.news.uni-berlin.de>s  3 In article <vFRNPAdYE2JE@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:z > In article <3FD7E5A2.339DC21@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e
 >>> [snip]J >>> You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away a0 >>> valuable income stream - so it's not likely. >> nC >> If VMS is such a "valuable income stream", why does hp refuse to  >> advertise it? > D > Presumably because they do not believe the revenue stream would beB > enhanced by advertising it.  Having sometimes spent money myselfG > on advertising software and seen revenue be unrelated to advertising,n8 > I am not in a position to second-guess HP on this one. > B > How many of those here assembled have chosen an operating system > based on advertising ?  < Can't answer that one, but I can provide a suitable example.  A Why is Linux so popular and selling so much when it easily loosesvD in any comparison of technical merit with any of the BSD's.  It alsoB looses in any comparison of business application of the licensing.B The only thing it wins agains any of the BSD's for is advertising.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:39:05 -0600 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> Subject: Re: OpenVMS org6 Message-ID: <3FD93859.66FC131E@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > z > In article <3FD7E5A2.339DC21@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >> [snip]-K > >> You could spin VMS off into it's own company, but it would take away ap1 > >> valuable income stream - so it's not likely.m > >SD > > If VMS is such a "valuable income stream", why does hp refuse to > > advertise it?  > D > Presumably because they do not believe the revenue stream would beB > enhanced by advertising it.  Having sometimes spent money myselfG > on advertising software and seen revenue be unrelated to advertising,t8 > I am not in a position to second-guess HP on this one.  8 I'd venture to say that it's likely a question of scale.  B > How many of those here assembled have chosen an operating system > based on advertising ?  F I have a better question: How many of those here assembled have chosen< an operating system they've never heard of or seen in an ad?   -- d David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:59:42 -0500I$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS org. Message-ID: <3FD94B3E.F6F7945E@eps.zk.dec.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:D > > How many of those here assembled have chosen an operating system > > based on advertising ? > H > I have a better question: How many of those here assembled have chosen> > an operating system they've never heard of or seen in an ad?  w Is that a trick question? The answer is clearly "all of the c.o.v. readers" as they all use VMS and never ever saw thatu adverstised.  c [I'll go back into my cage now. I accidently opened up this entry and have not followed the thread]-   Hein.-   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Dec 2003 17:22:41 GMT< From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann)/ Subject: Pathworks for Mac / MSA extremely slow00 Message-ID: <bra951$8jh$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  A we still use the discontinued Pathworks for Macintosh V1.3A undernC OpenVMS 7.3-1. But since the recent installation of various patchessE (mainly VMS731_UPDATE V2.0) the file services became incredibly slow.dJ I am not quite sure whether any of the patches is the reason, it is simplyJ a time coincidence. Did anyone else experience similar problems? What else# could I try to improve performance?   L It seems to be a communication problem. The Mac is waiting for the file, the+ MSAF$SERVER process is hibernating instead.c   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannd   -- OE  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452b  ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de-  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany09                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.htmln   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:58:23 GMTu" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Ping: VAXman.0 Message-ID: <00A2A37F.B7906F3B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <braatb$6qs@dispatch.concentric.net>, "DumberThanSnot" <Dumber@ThanSnot.com> writes:i7 >Ha.... I wasn't even close to guessing correctly.  ;-)e >x >Thanks, >Brian  H You weren't thinking of BK were you?  I've forgotten less about VMS than he ever knew of it.s  * Anyhow, I'm awaiting your email at Eisner. --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.   rK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             -5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 0   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Dec 2003 16:24:23 EST, From: "DumberThanSnot" <Dumber@ThanSnot.com> Subject: Re: Ping: VAXman 0 Message-ID: <brana7$oai@dispatch.concentric.net>  J I went through the list...  BK, EH (ed), even GCE.   But, I thought BK wasL moving to the UN*X and PC world.  I never did know what happened to EH.  GCEH was my biggest guess cuz of the DECUS association.  And since the VAXmanG posts put a plug in for legacy stuff that BK, Dan N., EH and I were allTF involved in... I was trying to narrow it down to those people.  I evenK thought for a split second that you might be the GoatHunter.  But, I didn'teK think Hunter (or you for that matter) had any involvement with legacy, so I G ruled you and Hunter out real quick.  I guess that wasn't smart on both.J accounts.  But, now that I think about it... I guess I should have thoughtK more about the "Kernel Mode Hacker" comment at the bottom.  That would haveuF ruled out a few of the above mentioned names.  Being a non-kernel mode@ hacker... I know a "non-kernel mode hacker" when I see one.  ;-)   -brian  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A2A37F.B7906F3B@SendSpamHere.ORG...C > In article <braatb$6qs@dispatch.concentric.net>, "DumberThanSnot"e <Dumber@ThanSnot.com> writes:h9 > >Ha.... I wasn't even close to guessing correctly.  ;-)  > >-
 > >Thanks, > >Brian >-J > You weren't thinking of BK were you?  I've forgotten less about VMS than > he ever knew of it.j >:, > Anyhow, I'm awaiting your email at Eisner. > --B > http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security
 solutions. >c2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >t6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:49:53 GMTl" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Ping: VAXman'0 Message-ID: <00A2A3A0.0EE0D2A5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <brana7$oai@dispatch.concentric.net>, "DumberThanSnot" <Dumber@ThanSnot.com> writes:aK >I went through the list...  BK, EH (ed), even GCE.   But, I thought BK wastM >moving to the UN*X and PC world.  I never did know what happened to EH.  GCEbI >was my biggest guess cuz of the DECUS association.  And since the VAXman H >posts put a plug in for legacy stuff that BK, Dan N., EH and I were allG >involved in... I was trying to narrow it down to those people.  I even L >thought for a split second that you might be the GoatHunter.  But, I didn'tL >think Hunter (or you for that matter) had any involvement with legacy, so IH >ruled you and Hunter out real quick.  I guess that wasn't smart on bothK >accounts.  But, now that I think about it... I guess I should have thoughtiL >more about the "Kernel Mode Hacker" comment at the bottom.  That would haveG >ruled out a few of the above mentioned names.  Being a non-kernel mode A >hacker... I know a "non-kernel mode hacker" when I see one.  ;-)   J BK is with (now) Symantec (formerly Axent) working on PeeCees and Eunuchs.  J GCE was working in VMS engineering for a while.  He moved back to Delaware" and is working for First One Bank.  K EH is a partner in the Loki Group.  LG took on the development and mainten-hK ance of the plugged stuff.  I work with LG doing the entirety of the devel-dK opment and maintenance of the plugged stuff.  Legacy purchased the softwarei when Symantec acquired Axent.a  L HG is at Process now.  He and I were working together doing dev/maint of the( plugged stuff before he want to Process.   Small world, eh?   --K http://www.legacy-2000.com  for the best OpenVMS system security solutions.n   K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" 8   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:31:38 GMTe' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>i$ Subject: Re: Replacement for CSWING?) Message-ID: <3FD8F04A.537891EF@uiowa.edu>t   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > _ > In article <br2a52$9ch$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:A > :"Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes in article <lZtAb.442412$HS4.3481380@attbi_s01> dated Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:52:49 GMT:M > :>I have found that somewhere in the recent ECOs for v7.3-1, the problems I-M > :>used to have with CSwing v3.7.6 have all but gone away.  NOW, I don't use.O > :>it with ODS-5, but even with ODS-2, it was pretty broken.  I honestly don't O > :>know where it got "fixed".  I was not testing CSwing and v7.3-1 anymore and L > :>just accidentally started using an old executable from OpenVMS v6.2 that > :>worked just fine...d > :eH > :Hmmm, I'm still having a problem, even on ODS-2 disks.  These are the> > :patches I've installed so far.  Can you list what you have? > :>S > :DEC AXPVMS VMS731_ACRTL V1.0        Patch       Install     30-MAR-2003 15:30:25eS > :DEC AXPVMS VMS731_SYS V3.0          Patch       Install     11-MAR-2003 18:14:09   N I agree with Hoff below.  I will check my home system where I first noticed itK working.  It was a recent v7.3-1 install and then just the current updates.   K NOTE: There were just some big releases this last week.  A new UPDATE, etc.   P My work system has a year's worth of diligent (sp?) patching that would probably confuse the issue.  F >   I would encourage downloading and installing the mandatory patchesG >   for OpenVMS -- what ECOs are listed above appear rather incomplete.6B >   The above list is missing the VMS731_UPDATE ECO, for instance. > 2 >   The OpeVMS ECO kits are available via the URL: >  >     http://www.itrc.hp.com/a > K > :(It might be worthwhile to mention that CSWING does not fail 100% of theSM > :time on my end either.  Single-node directory trees seem to work fine, forr > :example.) > F >   There are relevent patches for OpenVMS, and there are fixes to theH >   original CSWING source code -- I went looking for the CSWING updatesI >   for the Freeware V6.0 distribution, but could not find a copy posted.>H >   (If somebody has an updated copy of CSWING, please let me know where> >   and I will get the code posted onto the Freeware website.)  M I once pulled together a beta of v4.0 that fixed up most of the problems, butsM still had some errors (i.e., it was still worse on v7.3-1 then the old v3.7.6cM was on v7.2).  I gave it to a couple people, and then someone from HP SupporttK contacted me and wanted to get a copy so engineering could look it over and G try to fix it up for ODS-5 and everything else, in their spare time. :) B Honestly, that is what they said!  I never heard from him again...  / You guys got a lot of spare time these days? :)m  L Soon after that, (hmmm...) I stumbled on the fact that the old version (withL all it's bad and incorrect programming!) didn't seem to be broken anymore on v7.3-1, to me that is.  H Our v4.0 code was buggy and messy enough that I would rather not make it	 availablenL as Freeware.  The only plus was that it compiled with the current C compilerM on v7.3-1.  I never did get the v3.7.6 release to build (let alone run!) with O the current compiler.  I have always just used executables made on OpenVMS v6.2u many years ago.n   Rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:13:44 GMTs& From: jlsue <jefflsxxxz@sbcglobal.net>) Subject: Re: Results of SAN vendor surveyr8 Message-ID: <8gghtvcemd7qhr7elboss4u8di9ud8cp0r@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:48:51 GMT, brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:     >cP >Although the material *was* careful in stating that the survey was a perceptionJ >survey, they *did* manage to casually drop in this sentence, which can be4 >interpreted as a *marketshare*, not mindshare fact: >9N >"Veritas Software Corp. (Nasdaq: VRTS - News) and Cisco Systems Inc. (Nasdaq:J >CSCO - News) earned the highest scores for market leadership from 380 SAN >buyers and users worldwide.", >y  A I haven't read teh report, but it's strange that VERITAS would beuK considered a SAN Vendor.... what hardware do they sell?  I've NEVER been inf5 a competitive bid against them for a SAN environment.i   --- jlsh0 The preceding message was personal opinion only.6 I do not speak in any authorized capacity for anyone,  and certainly not my employer.- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)l   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:44:50 -0800% From: whohe@whoever.com (DL Phillips)   Subject: Scott McNealy;s Dilemma= Message-ID: <af0dc2ea.0312111444.5d2b5604@posting.google.com>b  C Interesting article about "disruptive technologies" should strike aeF familiar ring with most of us. BTW: Digital and HP are mentioned, too.   (watch for wrap)  U http://www.reed-electronics.com/eb-mag/article/CA337813?stt=000&pubdate=12%2F1%2F2003   0 Sorry if this reference has already been posted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:18:52 -05004* From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@istop.com>$ Subject: Re: Scott McNealy;s Dilemma) Message-ID: <3FD93387.D3D6331C@istop.com>A   DL Phillips wrote:E > Interesting article about "disruptive technologies" should strike a H > familiar ring with most of us. BTW: Digital and HP are mentioned, too.W > http://www.reed-electronics.com/eb-mag/article/CA337813?stt=000&pubdate=12%2F1%2F2003b    L Many thanks for the article. I tend to fully agree with it, although I don't4 necessarily agree with the very dark Sun prognostic.  K What the article fails to mention about Linux is that it is perhaps historyjK rewritten. Many of the computer manufacturers (think "the bunch") seing how N their proprietary system couldn't compete against VMS and MVS decided to go toJ the "free" route: Unix. Over time, they added more and more to the vanilla@ Unix in order to make it proprietary, hence HP-UX, AIX, Solaris.  N In the long term, it may be pointless to abandon your current proprietary UnixL to migrate to Linux only to have it become proprietary (loaded with all yourL goodies) eventually. On the other hand, you risk beinging totally irrelevant+ to the industry if you don't ride the wave.   J One way to make the proprietary OS continue to be relevant is to make themI affordable and competitive at the low end.  This is where Digital toatllyuL failed with its artificial barriers of Alpha/VMS in order to protect its low end fledgling wintel operation.e  M By being a wintel slave, HP's other products are aso prevented from competing  at the low end market.  L Sun , on the other hand, is far more focused on a single procuct which givesN more agility and ability to move its own product in exactly the same directionN it wants it to. (Deciding the right direction is key because if you choose the' wrong direction, the whole ship sinks).s  K HP on the other hand, having many separate smaller ships can afford to have L one ship go astray without it being fatal, and in fact, it sppear that HP isS even ready to sacrifice some smaller ships in the hopes of helping its other ships.k   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:32:58 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>rB Subject: Re: Sun to use AMD Opteron - announcement expected Monday& Message-ID: <3FD8C66A.20308@rdrop.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  G > Linux can do 1/10000th of what people do with Windows today - withouta  > being an Linux/UNIX OS expert.  H That's the gotcha. I'm running a Linux box under my desk with a stack ofH IDE disks in software RAID-5, precisely because it was the cheapest path= to a home file-server with some data protection capabilities.   I A few months ago, one of my disks went TU. It did, in fact, take a Linux sA expert to show me how to stripe a new disk in. The commands were aG actually pretty simple, if you knew what they were; but even the guy I rI had help me said he wouldn't have had a clue if he hadn't seen a seminar o a couple months before.l  D > Linux is passable today for small servers, and in places where you > have the need and expertise.  , Or friends that will work for Thai food. ;-)   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 02:00:03 +0100 (CET) % From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>S6 Subject: Re: The end of the road for 767 - and Boeing?8 Message-ID: <88529b2d32a9021b1d764b781a5667d3@dizum.com>    More domain theft from JF Mezei:  * Message-ID: <3FD8F5C2.8B49FB29@nobody.com>  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.com> Organization: nla0:c* X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en, MIME-Version: 1.0o Newsgroups: rec.travel.air6 Subject: Re: The end of the road for 767 - and Boeing?1 References: <bqmu69$5se63@imsp212.netvigator.com>t8 <SmSzb.28926$sb4.23876@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite	 Lines: 12j% Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:55:04 -0500i NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.11.160.74-M X-Trace: news.nnrp.ca 1071183133 66.11.160.74 (Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:13 EST)D0 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:52:13 EST   Raymond Chuang wrote: 4 > 1. The Boeing 767-200(ER) tanker deal is scrapped.  M I don't think so. Just read the other day that the UK is considering a BoeingtJ offer to take some of British Airway's 767s and convert them into tankers.# (with some new 767 tankers as well)b  G The other option the UK is considering would be A330 based tankers fromf Airbus/EADS.  N On the other hand, if Boeing were able to convert those 767 tanker orders intoL 7E7 orders, it might make it financially much easier to launch the 7E7 rightN away. And it would be a way for the US government to give Boeing a much needed boost.  I                                          --------------------------------g  J nobody.com is a registered domain.  Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this% domain to its owner  <tdl@canada.com>    Domain Name: NOBODY.COM   * Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:% Southport Technologies tdl@canada.com  314 Queen Street South	 Suite 158  Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9C CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061   Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995.   Also report him to:3   abuse@sympatico.ca abuse@bellglobal.com abuse@istop.como   Jean-Francois MezeiI 86 Harwood GateP Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3m (514) 695-8259   A DECADE OF USENET TROLLINGw   jfmezei@istop.comi jfmezei.spamnot@istop.coma jfmezei@videotron.ca jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca1 nospam.jfmezei@videotron.ca  "jfmezei"@videotron.ca[nospam] nobody <nobody@nobody.com>) Conspiracy Theory <conspiracy@theory.org> & Lou Raccoon <L.Raccoon@wilderness.org>$ Flapping Labias <flabia@anatomy.org>% Throbbing vulva <t.vulva@anatomy.org>  Twin Gonads <two@gonads.com>% Loose Scrotum <l.scrotum@anatomy.org> " Raised Organ <R.Organ@anatomy.org>$ Popped Cherry <P.Cherry@anatomy.org>- Monica Lewinski <billclinton@westchester.com>t' Deep Fried Foreskin <dff@mcdonalds.com>i" Aroma of Smegma <aroma@chanel.org> Wet fart <w.Fart@smell.org>a' Pubic dandruff <P.dandruff@anatomy.org> ( Voluptuous Nipple <V.nipple@anatomy.org>& Inserted Finger <I.Finger@anatomy.org> Pubic Nair <shaved@anatomy.org>t' Flatulent Meatus <F.Meatus@anatomy.org>b% Lihk Mhygroin <L.MyGroin@anatomy.org>l Pre Khum <P.Khum@anatomy.org>-! Phi Mosis <Phi.Mosis@anatomy.org>3# Bal Anatis <Bal.Anatis@anatomy.org>e  Fren Ullum <F.Ullum@anatomy.org>$ Ivanna Getlaid <I.Getlaid@onani.org>& Ivanna Wankalot <I.Wankalot@onani.org>$ Ivanna Umpalot <Humpalot@drevil.com>* Wan Tnoneofit <W.Tnoneofit@weirdnames.org> Wan Itbad <W.Itbad@inneed.org>! Wan Towank <W.ToWank@anatomy.org>s Wan Tolik <w.tolik@anatomy.org>e$ Testos Terone <t.terone@anatomy.org>! Upper Gonad <U.Gonad@anatomy.org>w! Right Gonad <R.Gonad@anatomy.org>s  Left Gonad <L.Gonad@anatomy.org>$ Tyson's Glands <Tyson.G@anatomy.org> Nose Hair <n.hair@anatomy.org>% Coronal Sulcus <C.Sulcus@anatomy.org>a% Corpus Cavernus <manhood@anatomy.org>T$ Armpit moisture <armpit@anatomy.org> Onani Room <onani@hotels.com>S& Arnie's Banana <weiner@terminator.com>( Raised eyebrows <r.eyebrows@anatomy.org>% Vas Deferens <V.deferens@anatomy.org>t% Naked Canuck <N.canuck@naturists.org>y& Arni's socks <Smelly.Socks@arnold.org>* Notable Exception <N.exception@untied.com>& Unpopped Cherry <U.Cherry@anatomy.org>' Tatooed Ovaries <T.Ovaries@anatomy.org>e' Pierced eyelid <p.eyelid@piercings.org>|( Limp Tomato <limp.tomato@vegetables.org>, Eggplant Earrings <e.earrings@piercings.org>. Banana Underpants <B.Underpants@hillfiger.org> Naval Lint <navel@lint.mil>m' Ingrown Toenail <i.toenail@anatomy.org>f% Empty Stomach <E.Stomach@anatomy.org>n$ Full Stomach <f.stomach@anatomy.org>" Smelly Cat <S.Cat@friends.nbc.com>& Torn Ligament <T.Ligament@anatomy.org># Art Tistic <A.Tistic@modern.museum>s( Furry Raccoon <F.Raccoon@wilderness.org>% Wet Racoon <W.Racoon@wildnerness.org>f" Mad Racoon <M.Racoon@wildlife.org>% Lazy Racoon <L.Racoon@wilderness.org>-& Eaten Racoon <E.Raccoon@mcdonalds.com>' Happy Raccoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>e) Sleeping Racoon <S.Racoon@wilderness.org>J' Hungry Racoon <H.Racoon@wilderness.org>6" Horny Raccoon <H.Racoon@fauna.org>( Smart Raccoon <S.Raccoon@wilderness.org>, George W Raccoon <GW.Raccoon@wilderness.org>+ Ronald McRaccoon <r.raccoon@wilderness.org> * Thirsty Raccoon <T.Raccoon@wilderness.org>( Johnny Raccoon <J.Racoon@wilderness.org>' Oshi Santo <O.Santo@nx01.starfleet.org>a* Oishi Chinko <O.Chinko@nx01.starfleet.org> T.Yellow <T.Yellow@nowhere.com>r Q <queue@continuum.net>. Borg Queen <1of1@borg.org>* Ronald Wilkerson <wilkersonr@sympatico.ca>) John Balterman <j.balterman@sympatico.ca>a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:01:13 -0600o/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>r Subject: Re: Turbochannel SCSI3 Message-ID: <3FD8BEF9.DEDD7E78@applied-synergy.com>g   Jeff Goodwin wrote:m > K > According to the Systems & Options catalog I have, these are probably thef- > only TurboChannel options with VAX support:o > ! >  o PMAD-AB - Thickwire ethernetp >  o PMAZ-AB - SCSIq >  o DEFTA-AA - FDDI > M > Whether they are supported in all TurboChannel enabled VAX systems, I don'tsK > know.  I've never heard of 3rd party Turbochannel options, but they mighto > exist.  C Yep, they exist.  I have a VAXstation 4000-60 with a Q-bus attachedo through the TURBOchannel.   G Unfortunately, there is an extra level of programming going through thei3 TC, so unmodified Q-bus drivers don't work.  <sigh>n  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------L$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:22:43 +0800 , From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>5 Subject: Re: VAX 11/750 and RL02 - trying to boot VMS - Message-ID: <87ad5z9n24.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  9 moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes:,  0 > Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: >t >>750s3 >>750       (the original full speed fall over one)g4 >            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  A The original 0.8MIP 750 had a nasty habit of dropping bits in the ? Instruction register, the gate array chips where not quite spot F on. This was most likley to happen in the idle loop, in kernel mode :(> Tests showed that dropping the clock speed greatly reduced the. incedence, so the reliability was much better.  B The 750 could outperform a 780 in a limited set of cases where the> direct vectored interupt structure allowed much lower interupt* overhead to handle a higher interupt load.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:56:53 -0600t( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon): Subject: What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ?1 Message-ID: <03121118565383@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    VMS V7.2  # To create a new AUDIT server files:V   $ SET AUDIT/SERVER=NEW  , I do this and my audit file goes to 800,000.  ( What governs the size of the AUDIT file?   Can I adjust this?  
 Do I want to?    Other suggestions?     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*ne VMS Systems Administratorp* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 02:44:53 GMTi4 From: brad@.gateway.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)> Subject: Re: What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ?0 Message-ID: <FY9Cb.313364$Dw6.1066272@attbi_s02>  \ In article <03121118565383@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon) writes:	 !VMS V7.2c ! $ !To create a new AUDIT server files: !d !$ SET AUDIT/SERVER=NEW  ! - !I do this and my audit file goes to 800,000.  ! ) !What governs the size of the AUDIT file?t  # The size of the "just closed" file.z  N The *next* time you create an audit file, the allocated size of the audit fileA will reduce, until it comes close to the "real" size of the file.o   !t !Can I adjust this?e !s  P I've tried adjusting this, using the suggestions I've GOOGLE'd from c.o.v., but J the behavior seems consistent with the above description.  The system diskB remains fairly well defragmented if I cut this file, operator.log,N accountng.dat, and sys$errorlog:errlog.sys once/month (I'm assuming that's why1 you are cutting a new version of the audit file).c   !Do I want to? !  !Other suggestions?N !n !s !J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n !VMS Systems Administrator+ !firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.comr  J __________________________________________________________________________A Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own"dK bMradAhamiPltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt     "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-'  0                                          with @"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:24:10 -0600a( From: brandon@dalsemi.com (John Brandon)> Subject: Re: What governs the size of SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL ?1 Message-ID: <03121121241015@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    > !VMS V7.23 > !3& > !To create a new AUDIT server files: > !o > !$ SET AUDIT/SERVER=NEWn > !i/ > !I do this and my audit file goes to 800,000.  > !n+ > !What governs the size of the AUDIT file?s > % > The size of the "just closed" file.  > P > The *next* time you create an audit file, the allocated size of the audit fileC > will reduce, until it comes close to the "real" size of the file.h >  > !l > !Can I adjust this?o > !i > R > I've tried adjusting this, using the suggestions I've GOOGLE'd from c.o.v., but L > the behavior seems consistent with the above description.  The system diskD > remains fairly well defragmented if I cut this file, operator.log,P > accountng.dat, and sys$errorlog:errlog.sys once/month (I'm assuming that's why3 > you are cutting a new version of the audit file).e  ' I had a suggestion to do the following:    $ set audit/jou/thres=warn=200 $ set audit/server=new  O And it worked.  I thought I tried something similiar to this however I may havee been mistaken.   > !Do I want to? > !s > !Other suggestions?r > !t  G I guess my thoughts are that I would want to create the audit file to asO pre-allocated size.  The previous size of "x" is just to big!  However to me it-K would make sense to allocate it to the average size you would experience ontM your desired cycle time.  In other words if you create a new one once a monthDM then /thres=warn=average would be what you want.  At least thats what I would  think.     J*o*h*n B*r*a*n*d*o*n8 VMS Systems Administratorn* firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Dec 2003 13:03:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: [DCL V7.3-2] Anyone experience with CLOSE/DISPOSITION ?3 Message-ID: <5PSWfy4d1tHG@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  f In article <rnGBb.10441$fK6.4782@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@hp.com_remove_this> writes:  6 > DCL link date should be 9-Oct-2003 (my birthday ;-).  I Well, you seemed young when I saw you in Nashua, but not _that_ young :-)e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:00:43 -0500n< From: "Peter Weaver" <WeaverConsultingServices@sympatico.ca>, Subject: Re: Re:[Gone OT] SEARCH enhancement9 Message-ID: <braidd$17ru9$1@ID-141708.news.uni-berlin.de>>   Mike Rechtman wrote: > Dave Greenwood wrote:  >>8 >> ow we'll have the VMS TYPE command which displays the
 contents of ae> >> file - unless you want to start in the middle in which case you use ! >> the SEARCH/SKIP command.  Ugh!t >>  = I grabbed this line from a .COM I wrote in 1986 to use SEARCHa0 as a TYPE when I want to see control characters;     SEARCH 'FNAM> "!#@!@#","!@#$%^!"/MATCH=NAND/REMAINING/FORMAT=DUMP/OUTPUT=TT:  > >> Unix, where's there's always another way - and you **have** to use >> it! >>3 > You mean like using "CONVERT/SHARE" when you meant "BACKUP/IGNORE" ?? >N   -- A Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.p Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAXi www.weaverconsulting.car   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.686 ************************