0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 01 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 64      Contents:2 Re: Announcing the first OpenVMS Technical Journal Re: Batch job log spec Re: Batch job log specA Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console A Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console - Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question - Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question - Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question - Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question - Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question  Re: dynamic DNS  Errors5 Re: Linux has just as many dangerous bugs as Windows! 5 Re: Linux has just as many dangerous bugs as Windows! . Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??. Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ??- Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 ) OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31  Re: Oracle 9i on VMS use LMF?  Re: Oracle 9i on VMS use LMF?  Perl Readdir and file versions, Re: Privileges in a shareable image question, Re: Privileges in a shareable image question Re: Rogues Gallery Re: Submit at end of month? # Re: VAXcluster support of database? # Re: VAXcluster support of database?  Re: VMS @25 CD now available VMS on Itanium  Re: VMS to message Oracle users?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:22:44 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: Announcing the first OpenVMS Technical Journal 0 Message-ID: <00A1ACCD.76758000@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E3ACEEF.35E4D546@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Sue Skonetski wrote: 6 >> To view the OpenVMS Technical Journal please visit:1 >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/journal/  > E >Glad to see you provided HTML versions that work without javascript.  >  >Good work.   E Only after I made mention of problems with the HTML did the NS3 links 
 get added.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:58:18 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Batch job log spec / Message-ID: <3E3AF17A.8D1D44F0@vl.videotron.ca>    couple of comments:   M after you've determined the file name of your output, you'll probably want to M get the F$ENVIRONMENT("OUTPUT_RATE") and then wait as long to ensure that any G output from the real job has flushed to the log file before mailing it. L Unfortunatly, you won't be able to mail the accounting information since the2 log file won't be complete at the time of mailing.  F Other option is to submit another procedure/after="+00:00:10" with theN filename as argument and then that procedure can then email the fill log file.J The /AFTER would be needed to ensure that the mail job doesn't start untilI after your first job has had time to finish. (alternatively, there is the ! SYNCH command which can be used).    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 11:46 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Batch job log spec , Message-ID: <1FEB200311465177@gerg.tamu.edu>  ! mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes... 4 }In article <VXgvizKltEip@eisner.encompasserve.org>," } briggs@encompasserve.org writes:Z }> In article <v3lhhjn9cvhm4e@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:; }>> "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message 3 }>> news:b1edmc$126daj$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de... = }>>> I want to know the file spec of my batch job's log file. 4 }>>> (so I can mail it to operations to be checked). }>>>) }>>> I can see that f$getqui can do this:  }>>>@ }>>> x = f$getqui("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB") }>>>E }>>> But I need to "establish context" for DISPLAY_JOB.  The examples C }>>> that "establish context" that I've found are all about looping 2 }>>> through a bunch of jobs, and I just want one. }>>>1 }>>> Can someone give me an example DCL,  Thanks,  }>>> }>> N }>> Use DISPLAY_ENTRY instead of DISPLAY_JOB.  However, you won't get what you	 }>> want.  }>  E }> DISPLAY_JOB works fine.  I tried it before I posted and again just H }> now.  _In this case_, it appears to be synonymous with DISPLAY_ENTRY. }>  I }> But if you don't specify /LOG on the SUBMIT command, LOG_SPECIFICATION F }> will be null.  In order to make much use of it, you need to defaultD }> in something like SYS$LOGIN:<jobname>.LOG;  And that still leavesF }> you with a problem with simultaneously running jobs (as you pointed }> out). }>  D }> As you also suggested, a more fruitful approach may be to dig the< }> file name out from the SYS$OUTPUT process permanent file. }>  3 }> See code to do just that in my previous posting.  }>   }> 	John Briggs  } : }A simpler (DCL only) method might be to get the output of? }SHOW DEVICE/FILES SYS$LOGIN and SEARCH the output for your own = }PID and the string "jobname.LOG". You'd only want to do this : }after you'd used the F$GETQUI calls to determine that the. }logfile wasn't specified on the command line. }  }--  }- Jim    9 This part is pretty easy to do. Here is one way to do it:   	 FOO.COM =    $ z= f$getjpi("","pid") + $ Pipe Show Device/File/NoSys SYS$LOGIN | -      Search Sys$Pipe 'z' | - 
     @foo2.com  $ sh log/job thisfile*  
 FOO2.COM =   $ i = 0 	 $LOOPING: 0 $ Read/End=ENDLOOP/Err=ENDLOOP Sys$Pipe thisproc, $ thisfile = "[" + F$Element(1,"[",thisproc)	 $ i = i+1 " $ Define/Job thisfile'i' &thisfile $ GoTo LOOPING	 $ENDLOOP:  $ Exit  " Then SUBMIT FOO.COM/QUEUE=whateverH In the log file, SYS$LOGIN:FOO.LOG, you will see a list of all the filesH that this process has open the disk that your SYS$LOGIN directory is on.I This will include the log file. It will also include FOO.COM, if it is on 
 that disk.  E From this, you should be able to work out the details to get just the 	 log file.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:42:29 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> J Subject: Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console? Message-ID: <1b2ff6bd4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   < In message <8debc3ff.0301311408.779f4af7@posting.google.com>5           ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) wrote:   F > VMS 7.3-1, Decwindows 1.2-6 on a DS10, Oxygen card (if that matters) > F > I have a DS10 set up with the console on the serial line via the SRMF > environment variable.  The console (OPA0:) in this case is being setH > /NOBROADCAST by the SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTAPPS.COM.  I'm puzzled as to4 > why this is occurring (or rather, needs to occur). > $ > The DCL in question is as follows: >  > $ GOSUB get_ws_flags4 > $ if .not. ws_present then goto skip_console_checkH > $ IF ws_alt_console .and. decw$console_selection .eqs. "WINDOW" THEN -4 >                 decw$console_selection == "ENABLE", > $ if decw$console_selection .eqs. "ENABLE"
 > $   then0 > $       set terminal opa0:/permanent/broadcast
 > $   else2 > $       set terminal opa0:/permanent/nobroadcast	 > $ endif  > G > The get_ws_flags routine is finding the flags as appropriate for INA0 ; > DEVDEPEND2 (BEEF0005) and ws_alt_console is set to true.  F > DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION is initialized to DISABLE at the beginning ofG > the procedure.  I have failed to see how/where decw$console_selection E > is set to WINDOW anywhere in any of the DECW* procedures, so the if G > statement always takes the 'else' path.  After the system has booted, A > the DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION logical name has a value of DISABLE.  > @ > This 'code' does not appear to have changed since at least VMS > 6.2/Decwindows 1.2-4.  > H > If I boot a minimal system, then OPA0: is set to /BROADCAST as I wouldD > expect, so I'm fairly certain the above 'code' is what is changing > this.  > 
 > Ken Randell   E This seems to be fairly normal behaviour. Servers enable OPCOM to the A console, Workstations disable it. You can always change it later.    --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:33:48 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> J Subject: Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console/ Message-ID: <SUQ_9.266$Jj4.31@news.cpqcorp.net>   < It's disabled on graphics for a reason.  Don't re-enable it.  F "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message9 news:1b2ff6bd4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk... > > In message <8debc3ff.0301311408.779f4af7@posting.google.com>7 >           ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) wrote:  > H > > VMS 7.3-1, Decwindows 1.2-6 on a DS10, Oxygen card (if that matters) > > H > > I have a DS10 set up with the console on the serial line via the SRMH > > environment variable.  The console (OPA0:) in this case is being setJ > > /NOBROADCAST by the SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTAPPS.COM.  I'm puzzled as to6 > > why this is occurring (or rather, needs to occur). > > & > > The DCL in question is as follows: > >  > > $ GOSUB get_ws_flags6 > > $ if .not. ws_present then goto skip_console_checkJ > > $ IF ws_alt_console .and. decw$console_selection .eqs. "WINDOW" THEN -6 > >                 decw$console_selection == "ENABLE". > > $ if decw$console_selection .eqs. "ENABLE" > > $   then2 > > $       set terminal opa0:/permanent/broadcast > > $   else4 > > $       set terminal opa0:/permanent/nobroadcast > > $ endif  > > I > > The get_ws_flags routine is finding the flags as appropriate for INA0 < > > DEVDEPEND2 (BEEF0005) and ws_alt_console is set to true.H > > DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION is initialized to DISABLE at the beginning ofI > > the procedure.  I have failed to see how/where decw$console_selection G > > is set to WINDOW anywhere in any of the DECW* procedures, so the if I > > statement always takes the 'else' path.  After the system has booted, C > > the DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION logical name has a value of DISABLE.  > > B > > This 'code' does not appear to have changed since at least VMS > > 6.2/Decwindows 1.2-4.  > > J > > If I boot a minimal system, then OPA0: is set to /BROADCAST as I wouldF > > expect, so I'm fairly certain the above 'code' is what is changing	 > > this.  > >  > > Ken Randell  > G > This seems to be fairly normal behaviour. Servers enable OPCOM to the C > console, Workstations disable it. You can always change it later.  >  > -- > Alan Adams( > alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk > http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:25:38 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 6 Subject: Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question/ Message-ID: <bNQ_9.264$%d4.49@news.cpqcorp.net>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E3AD555.8775D63E@vl.videotron.ca...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > > On some *future* Itanium2 box (perhaps a generic Intel box) there may  not beJ > > map registers, and any VMS driver written to "assume" the availability of > > map registers - will fail. > - > This is meant as a question, not a comment:  > J > Is it therefore official that until further notice, VMS will only run on IA64H > systems built by HP due to its use of HP proprietary add-ons of IA64 ? >   K No.  Just that until we do the new interfaces are done *and* drivers change H to use it, you will need to either use only 64-bit PCI devices, or limit memory to 4Gb on them.   > J > (Now, the comments: it makes no difference as far as I am concerned, and it is L > no surprise, and in a way, if you want a robust system, you prefer one for/ > which VMS was built, not some random config.)   K Absolutely.  This is no different than the Alpha systems that VMS supports, F and systems we never supported, but which work (with limitations) that< people use for hobbyist use (for example).  Like the Multia.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:27:12 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 6 Subject: Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question0 Message-ID: <FOQ_9.265$A04.230@news.cpqcorp.net>  H There are multiple serial ports.  Remember, that UNIX also boots withoutG graphics.  The DIG64 spec that most of the industry folllows spells out  their need.     = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E3AD24A.881DA3B9@vl.videotron.ca...  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:K > > Itanium2 systems are all "legacy free"... which means no ISA bridge (no  junk8 > > IO, no PS2 KB/Mouse, no square wave generator, etc). > - > Does Legacy-free also mean no serial port ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:47:00 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>6 Subject: Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question/ Message-ID: <E1D_9.233$6V3.72@news.cpqcorp.net>   1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F >> Itanium2 systems are all "legacy free"... which means no ISA bridge@ >> (no junk IO, no PS2 KB/Mouse, no square wave generator, etc).  - > Does Legacy-free also mean no serial port ?   A I can confirm that there _are_ serial ports on zx1-based Itanium2 B systems. I've used one of them for a console under HP-UX 11.22 and Linux on an rx2600.   L http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/rackoptimized/rx2600/specifications.htmlL http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/rackoptimized/rx5670/specifications.htmlA http://www.hp.com/workstations/products/itanium/zx6000/specs.html A http://www.hp.com/workstations/products/itanium/zx2000/specs.html   5 All show RS-232/DB9 serial ports as part of core I/O.   
 rick jones --  H Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:44:11 -0500 (EST) + From: Lord Isildur <isildur@andrew.cmu.edu> 6 Subject: Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 questionO Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44L-027.0301311737420.9842-100000@unix2.andrew.cmu.edu>   L well, Itanic isn't a concern to me, but if it doesn't have a serial console,B it is not a real computer. it can have a graphical head, sure, butE a serial console is essential. I'd put a physical halt button as only " ever so slightly less a criterion.    $ On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, JF Mezei wrote:   > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:P > > Itanium2 systems are all "legacy free"... which means no ISA bridge (no junk8 > > IO, no PS2 KB/Mouse, no square wave generator, etc). > - > Does Legacy-free also mean no serial port ?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:01:19 -0500 1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom> 6 Subject: Re: DMA on IA-64, was: Re: EV7, ES47 question+ Message-ID: <3E3B003F.EFE314E6@hp.com.doom>   P     What Fred says is correct there is no PC legacy I/O ports.  The RX2600 has 3 serial ports one is F part of the system management board.  It allows you to do all kinds of operations on the system notP just power on and off.  This port sort of emulates an 16550 UART.  There are two additional serial L ports labled console/serial A and serial B.  Serial B these have 16550 UARTs that live in PCI memory L space.  It looks like serial B was aimed at supporting the Windows NT serial line debugger.  N     At a recent Intel Developers Forum Intel was promoting a USB 2.0 extension to to support the N windows kernel debugger.  They clearly stated that future systems will have no serial ports at all.     Forrest  OpenVMS Development    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 01:51:03 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: dynamic DNS2 Message-ID: <3E333EA1.A666A7DA@firstdbasource.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > # > As one can see from, for example,  > ( >    http://www.technopagan.org/dynamic/ > G > there are many dynamic-DNS providers out there.  Can anyone recommend F > one which is not only good in general but also easy to use from VMS?  F I use ZONEEDIT.COM and use a perl script on my linux box to update the@ ddns.  I have looked at the code and only need to figure out theH equivelant to the "daemon" mode. (resubmit every n minutes). Not that itF can't be done, I just haven't had the time to do it. :)  I do run partA of the script using Perl for VMS that tells me the current WAN IP H address of the router and that works great.  All  I really need to do isF add the part to log into zoneedit and update the ip address and then I@ really won't need the Linux box... it is after all only a 166Mhz& PentiumI Digital Starion (circa 1996).   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 15:19:15 +0530, From: "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> Subject: Errors 2 Message-ID: <000b01c2c9d7$fb68dba0$3c03e980@bofpc>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CA05.48958180  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="Windows-1252" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I Please guide me about the following errors that we often get in our VAX =  3800 and 3400 systems    PTA0:=20 PIA0:   & when we give the show error command=20 Arindam Paul=20       + ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CA05.48958180  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="Windows-1252" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><BASE=208 href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft = Shared\Stationery\">7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Dwindows-1252">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.3825.1300" name=3DGENERATOR> E <META content=3D"C:\PROGRAM FILES\MICROSOFT OFFICE\OFFICE\html.dot" =  name=3DTemplate> <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD> 7 <BODY vLink=3D#800080 link=3D#0000ff bgColor=3D#ffffff> J <DIV>Please guide me about the following errors that we often get in our = VAX=20 3800 and 3400 systems</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>PTA0: </DIV>  <DIV>PIA0:</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> I <DIV>when we give the show error command </DIV><B><FONT color=3D#0000ff = 	 size=3D2> ? <P>Arindam Paul <BR></FONT></B><B><SUP><FONT color=3D#ff0000=20 , size=3D1></P></B></SUP></FONT></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2CA05.48958180--    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 06:39:29 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Linux has just as many dangerous bugs as Windows!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302010639.2aeea252@posting.google.com>    Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> wrote in message news:<rjml3vg6l8evnb1f25j5m84v6milr7tohv@4ax.com>... C > On 31 Jan 2003 11:03:52 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  > wrote: > % > >says a leading security expert ... + > >OpenVMS is your only "secure" option ... ) > >if you can read click here to read his  > >reasoning ... > > 8 > >http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030124S0013 >  > That's Great Bob > : > Now sod off back to cov and stop bothering linux people.  > hey, I didn't write the article, I wanted to post only to comp= vms but I was on the linux board to see if any one had posted ; this there and it accidently got posted on both ... I don't : post on your board any more as that is a waste of time ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:45:40 +0000 E From: Jamie Stallwood <this.no.work.try.something.else@project76.net> > Subject: Re: Linux has just as many dangerous bugs as Windows!8 Message-ID: <k3vl3vor967vi551ot9gnesqnoe86k5s1e@4ax.com>  A On 31 Jan 2003 11:03:52 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)  wrote:  # >says a leading security expert ... ) >OpenVMS is your only "secure" option ... ' >if you can read click here to read his  >reasoning ... > 6 >http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030124S0013  A Bob knows that any more trolls and his ISP's gonna get letters...    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:37:17 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? J Message-ID: <h0C_9.236027$pDv.121438@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:d2IMJJjFLYj+@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <W4Z5tkEBqLFa@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>, huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes:< > > In article <3E284E33.ACCA3FBB@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > >> Dan Allen wrote: : > >>> http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/service/its.htm > >>E > >> many thanks. Aren't there time servers in other countries though  ?  > > @ > > In Germany the central and official time service is from the, > > "Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt": > >  > >    ptbtime1.ptb.de > >    ptbtime2.ptb.de > >  > ? > The concept of "time server" is old school.  Forget about it.  > = > For less than a $500 U.S. you can get a time source that is C > accurate to a microsecond level - or less.  Most of us don't need > > that accuracy.  Since there are a number of these across the> > Internet setup as Stratum 1 servers , we (collective we) canB > point to Stratum 2 servers that are pointed to GPS Stratum 1 and  > and obtain very good accuracy. > ? > Here is how you can check the accuracy of your NTP source(s):  > $ > http://www.gpsclock.com/check.html > ; > Off that page is a link to a gps source they are selling:  > $ > http://www.gpsclock.com/specs.html > ; > PPS pulses accurate to plus or minus 1 microsecond of UTC / > Tunable to plus/minus 250 nanosecond accuracy 6 > Can maintain timing accuracy with only one satelliteA > Includes web page builder, NTP patches and DOS support software  > Low cost ($380)  > ; > There are similar products out and about.  Here is a much # > more robust list with accuracies:  > . > http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/hardware.html > 9 > A number of good GPS links hanging off that, including:  >  > http://www.gpsy.com/gpsinfo/ > 
 > From there:  > - > http://www.edu-observatory.org/gps/gps.html  > " > How accurate are the GPS clocks? > E > http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/1997/970505-2f.htm  > E > "The GPS IIF spacecraft will have four frequency standards composed  of both @ > cesium and rubidium technologies. These extremely accurate GPS
 atomic clocks / > can keep time to within 8 nanoseconds a day."  > @ > Bottom Line:  The days of a "time server" (national, military)9 > are past/unnecessary.  Nameless, faceless, GPS is best.  >   F Sorry for jumping in late ...aren't the GPS-based clock susceptible toF larger 'deviation' if the military decides to kick things back the wayF things were before Clinton decided it was allow the signals to be usedB to fix position to approx 2m accuracy? I'm thinking about the IraqD situation in the next couple of months, or anytime in the future the* GPS signals are tinkered with in this way.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:38:21 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? 0 Message-ID: <xVC_9.232$6V3.112@news.cpqcorp.net>  - http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/gpsinfo.html#gpssa   )    SELECTIVE AVAILABILITY, ANTI-SPOOFING    ?    Selective Availability (SA), the denial of full accuracy, is =    accomplished by manipulating navigation message orbit data E    (epsilon) and/or satellite clock frequency (dither). Anti-spoofing ?    (A-S) guards against fake transmissions of satellite data by ,    encrypting the P-code to form the Y-code.  D Now, that is all rather alien to me, but if I am guessing, the firstD is talking about the satelite more or less "lying" about where it isD in orbit, but still giving correct time.  The second one sounds like@ something that would have the satelite "lying" about the correct: time. I've no idea by how much it has to lie to reduce theC navigational accuracy by the desired amount so I have no idea if it A would be of practical concern to the mythical typical user of GPS  receivers for time sources.   5 http://www.gme.net.au/garmin/gar_no_sa_factsheet.html   ? includes some text talking about how great it is that Selective " Availability was being turned-off:  @     Increased Adoption of GPS Time: In addition to more accurateD     position information, the accuracy of the time data broadcast by>     GPS will improve to within 40 billionths of a second. SuchC     precision may encourage adoption of GPS as a preferred means of D     acquiring Universal Coordinated Time (UTC) and for synchronisingD     everything from electrical power grids and cellular phone towersF     to telecommunications networks and the Internet. For example, withE     higher precision timing, a company can stream more data through a :     fiber optic cable by tightening the space between dataA     packets. Using GPS to accomplish this is far less costly than /     maintaining private atomic clock equipment.   B I've no idea what the accuracy of the time data was prior to that.  N http://www.unavco.ucar.edu/project_support/network/globeweb/correction/sa.html  F     With Selective Availability on, the GPS receiver doesn't know whatC     time it really is at the satellites, because the S.A. makes the B     satellite send the wrong time. The time the satellite sends isA     usually pretty close to the real time, but not exact. Without D     knowing the exact times at the satellites when they create theirE     time message, the receiver cannot tell you the exact location you B     are trying to measure. This means the GPS receiver gives you a.     less accurate position because of S.A too!  S From http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/FGCS/info/sans_SA/docs/GPS_SA_Event_Talking_Points.pdf   E     It is not the intent of the US to ever use SA on the civil signal C     again. To ensure that potential adversaries do not use GPS, the >     military is dedicated to the development and deployment ofF     regional denial capabilities in lieu of global degradation through     SA.   E I don't know if this regional degredation is actually deployed now or  not.  F There is a whole host of stuff if you do a google search for "gps time selective availability"   
 rick jones --  / "Hey! Hey! SUV! The gas you waste empowers me!" ?                            - overheard at an al Qaeda pep-rally F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:53:14 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? / Message-ID: <3E3AF04A.DC227469@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote: H > Sorry for jumping in late ...aren't the GPS-based clock susceptible toH > larger 'deviation' if the military decides to kick things back the wayH > things were before Clinton decided it was allow the signals to be used( > to fix position to approx 2m accuracy?  H The US proprietary monile system owned by Qualcomm and deployed by largeN telcos (commonly known as CDMA (or IS-95) has used GPS signals on each antennaP because it requyires precise timing, even prior to the removal of that pesky SA.  M The military wouldn't be able to degrade it more than SA because of that. And G now that GPS is prevalent in cars, putting SA back would actually cause G accidents because the GPS would no longer behave as expected in term of M accuracy and would distract drivers who would get unexpected behaviour ("turn M right" after the intersection for instance) until they learn their unit is no & longer really usable for city driving.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 17:59:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: Re: Network Time Protocol (NTP) for OpenVMS ?? I Message-ID: <EVT_9.191268$ej1.81131@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E3AF04A.DC227469@vl.videotron.ca...  > John Smith wrote: ; > > Sorry for jumping in late ...aren't the GPS-based clock  susceptible toF > > larger 'deviation' if the military decides to kick things back the way E > > things were before Clinton decided it was allow the signals to be  used* > > to fix position to approx 2m accuracy? > D > The US proprietary monile system owned by Qualcomm and deployed by large C > telcos (commonly known as CDMA (or IS-95) has used GPS signals on  each antennaC > because it requyires precise timing, even prior to the removal of  that pesky SA. > E > The military wouldn't be able to degrade it more than SA because of 	 that. And C > now that GPS is prevalent in cars, putting SA back would actually  cause F > accidents because the GPS would no longer behave as expected in term of> > accuracy and would distract drivers who would get unexpected behaviour ("turnD > right" after the intersection for instance) until they learn their
 unit is no( > longer really usable for city driving.  @ Not so. My BMW navigation system worked fine pre the Clinton-eraB change in the GPS 'signal', and it continues to work fine. HoweverB 'fine' is a function of the resolution needed to carry out a given task.   > As I recollect, the navigation error of marine nav systems wasB approximately +/ 50-60m or so prior to the change - clearly enoughE leeway to run you aground in a narrow channel when navigating in fog. F So you also needed radar back then for more precise capabilities. OnceC the signal change was implemented, the error became +/- 3 meters or D so, that's what the Raytheon GPS nav system on my brother's new boatC is capable of. Of course you still need radar for anti-collision in E fog, but its need for navigation is lessened by the more accurate GPS  systems post-1999.  A What we're talking about is the time differences between synching C clocks using GPS in the event of degraded time/location signals and . using terrestrial-based time sources directly.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 02:21:36 -0800  From: dcain@enetis.net (dcain)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <91406d6a.0302010221.3215482d@posting.google.com>    Great job, well done.    ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:32:54 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 310 Message-ID: <b1gia5$8nc$1@sparta.btinternet.com>   Hi,    Well, about bloody time! :-)  C Seriously, this is an amazing result! Surely the product of a truly L Herculean effort by all involved. I will be waving this in a lot of people'sI faces over the coming months. It's just great to see VMS punching off the  front foot again!!!   G Just one small question (from someone who sounds like he still needs to I sleep with the light on) is it safe to say that all the show-stoppers and L architectural issues are now behind us? And the blue-prints have been signedH off? And the rest of the port (although important and still challenging)D will be more on the formulaic side of creativity? Issues like memoryH management and access modes long since solved? If the answer is yes thenK it's clear that this effort/result is more than anyone could have hoped for J and it's also clear that *somehow* Digital/Compaq/HP has managed to retain% some of the best brains in the world!   < > It looks like it happened about five hours earlier than my+ > guess.   Did anyone get closer than that?   J I'll have to find my bit of paper that I chook scrawled my guess on, but IJ might have just snuck in there. I think I was either 11:00am or 1:00pm butL if I'd won I'm sure my DS10 would've been delivered already :-) What was theJ prize anyway? I'd always wanted a VMS umbrella. (Please BIGGER branding on these things in future!)  J Is there anyway to get a list of guesses or a copy of my own guess? Did we get mailed with a confirmation?4   Cheers Richard Maher.o  3 Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote in messageo' news:3E3B05AE.B84FA7F6@NelsonUSA.com...E > Sue Skonetski wrote: >/L > > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumK > > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official dateM andI> > > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST. > > > CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE ENGINEERS AND SUPPORT PEOPLE!!!!! > 3 > Does Hoff get to sleep in tomorrow morning?   :-)i >N< > It looks like it happened about five hours earlier than my+ > guess.   Did anyone get closer than that?g >s= > My theory was that it would happen on a Friday night, after 8 > all the annoying distractions had gone home and it was1 > possible to concentrate on those last few bugs.P >o > Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:36:33 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>t6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 310 Message-ID: <qXQ_9.267$na4.182@news.cpqcorp.net>  > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message* news:b1gia5$8nc$1@sparta.btinternet.com... > Hi,  >n > Well, about bloody time! :-) >3E > Seriously, this is an amazing result! Surely the product of a trulynE > Herculean effort by all involved. I will be waving this in a lot of3 people'sK > faces over the coming months. It's just great to see VMS punching off thel > front foot again!!!g >iI > Just one small question (from someone who sounds like he still needs to K > sleep with the light on) is it safe to say that all the show-stoppers andaG > architectural issues are now behind us? And the blue-prints have beenb signed > off?   Yes.  No showstoppers.  E > And the rest of the port (although important and still challenging)-3 > will be more on the formulaic side of creativity?r  F Yes/No.  Still a bit of work to go.  It's be a few weeks before things become "formulaic"   >Issues like memory.J > management and access modes long since solved? If the answer is yes thenI > it's clear that this effort/result is more than anyone could have hoped  forTL > and it's also clear that *somehow* Digital/Compaq/HP has managed to retain' > some of the best brains in the world!e >u   Solved.T   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 09:37:44 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 310 Message-ID: <xYQ_9.268$%d4.131@news.cpqcorp.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:6bE_9.184477$ej1.22857@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& > news:b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > > -----Original Message----- > >t > > From: Grant, Clair > >s* > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM > >u& > > To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group > >$! > > Subject: VMS boots on Itanium  > >aD > > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000	 > ItaniumbF > > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official
 > date and> > > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST. > >t@ > > Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including > managers,a: > > supervisors, project leaders, consultants, development > infrastructure group,dH > > calling standard committee, engineers working on post-boot projects, > etc.B > > All will receive their well-deserved credit as we proceed. The > following is> > > a very specific set of people; these are the engineers who? > > designed/wrote/debugged the code that comprises the runningh > operating  > > system.  > >28 > > list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetski > >  >I >r> > Great. Now that the contractual obligation to Intel has been7 > fulfilled, can we all get focused back on Alpha EV8+?p >e    6 Your welcome too.  Glad you're still grinding the axe.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 06:43:48 -08002( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302010643.9d6e04d@posting.google.com>  g "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...S > -----Original Message----- >  > From: Grant, Clair > ( > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM > $ > To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group >  > Subject: VMS boots on Itaniumo > J > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumM > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official date and'< > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST. > H > Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including managers,N > supervisors, project leaders, consultants, development infrastructure group,K > calling standard committee, engineers working on post-boot projects, etc.mM > All will receive their well-deserved credit as we proceed. The following isG< > a very specific set of people; these are the engineers whoG > designed/wrote/debugged the code that comprises the running operatingt	 > system.f > 6 > list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetski   a new dawn begins ...a   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 15:10:33 GMTg( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 316 Message-ID: <b1go19$131crj$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  , In article <3e3b45cb_2@news.chariot.net.au>,2 	Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes: > Sue Skonetski wrote: >> -----Original Message-----n >> c >> From: Grant, Clair  >> m) >> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PMi >>  % >> To: OpenVMS Systems Software Groupg >> (  >> Subject: VMS boots on Itanium >> yK >> We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 Itaniumt
 >> system. > 8< snip 8< > E > Many congratulations to VMS Engineering (who in spite of not a few hH > obstacles and many naysayers have shown, once again, that they can do = > whatever they set their minds - and are permitted - to do!)I >   E I don't think that there was anyone here who doubted that engineeringlF could make VMS boot and even run on IA64.  The naysayers just doubt itG is the path they should be taking.  But that's a managment issue and weu all know how good that is.   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:34:45 +01003 From: "Michel Herrscher" <michel.herrscher@free.fr> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <3e3be919$0$225$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  * Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> a crit  B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message( > news:<b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>... >> -----Original Message-----c >> >> From: Grant, Clair  >>) >> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM: >>% >> To: OpenVMS Systems Software Grouph >>  >> Subject: VMS boots on Itanium >>C >> We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000sD >> Itanium system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command theG >> official date and time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 
 >> PM EST. >>? >> Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including C >> managers, supervisors, project leaders, consultants, developmenttF >> infrastructure group, calling standard committee, engineers workingC >> on post-boot projects, etc. All will receive their well-deserveda@ >> credit as we proceed. The following is a very specific set ofG >> people; these are the engineers who designed/wrote/debugged the coden/ >> that comprises the running operating system.w >>7 >> list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetskin >y > a new dawn begins ...     K This new era is the perfect continuum of a long long history, that began ond1 17-nov-1858 and will end at the end of times ....  -- Michel HERRSCHER CONSULTANTo; VMSer on VAX and ALHA ( only since 14-jun1979....  VMS 1.3)/K Waiting ITANIUMer in later in 2003  ( if INTEL wants it ;) , as VMS did it.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:23:39 -0500t5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>s2 Subject: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31* Message-ID: <b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   -----Original Message-----   From: Grant, Clair  & Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM  " To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group   Subject: VMS boots on Itanium,  H We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumK system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official date andn: time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST.  F Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including managers,L supervisors, project leaders, consultants, development infrastructure group,I calling standard committee, engineers working on post-boot projects, etc..K All will receive their well-deserved credit as we proceed. The following is): a very specific set of people; these are the engineers whoE designed/wrote/debugged the code that comprises the running operatings system.e  4 list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetski   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:24:30 -0800A( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31- Message-ID: <3E3B05AE.B84FA7F6@NelsonUSA.com>    Sue Skonetski wrote:  J > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumM > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official date and < > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST.  < CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE ENGINEERS AND SUPPORT PEOPLE!!!!!  1 Does Hoff get to sleep in tomorrow morning?   :-)e  : It looks like it happened about five hours earlier than my) guess.   Did anyone get closer than that?l  ; My theory was that it would happen on a Friday night, aftera6 all the annoying distractions had gone home and it was/ possible to concentrate on those last few bugs.    Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 00:05:22 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>W6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31I Message-ID: <6bE_9.184477$ej1.22857@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>N  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > -----Original Message----- >  > From: Grant, Clair >i( > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM > $ > To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group >t > Subject: VMS boots on Itaniumh >iB > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumbD > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official date and< > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST. >s> > Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including	 managers,-8 > supervisors, project leaders, consultants, development infrastructure group,kF > calling standard committee, engineers working on post-boot projects, etc.@ > All will receive their well-deserved credit as we proceed. The following is< > a very specific set of people; these are the engineers who= > designed/wrote/debugged the code that comprises the running 	 operatinga	 > system.p >a6 > list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetski >r    < Great. Now that the contractual obligation to Intel has been5 fulfilled, can we all get focused back on Alpha EV8+?q   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 15:54:33 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31J Message-ID: <Z4S_9.240334$pDv.121175@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:xYQ_9.268$%d4.131@news.cpqcorp.net... >n0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE > news:6bE_9.184477$ej1.22857@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > >iD > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message( > > news:b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com...  > > > -----Original Message----- > > >e > > > From: Grant, Clair > > >m, > > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:40 PM > > >s( > > > To: OpenVMS Systems Software Group > > >.# > > > Subject: VMS boots on Itanium- > > >-F > > > We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 > > Itaniumt? > > > system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command theu official > > date and@ > > > time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST. > > >eB > > > Many, many people have contributed to this effort, including
 > > managers,s< > > > supervisors, project leaders, consultants, development > > infrastructure group,w@ > > > calling standard committee, engineers working on post-boot	 projects,g > > etc.D > > > All will receive their well-deserved credit as we proceed. The > > following is@ > > > a very specific set of people; these are the engineers whoA > > > designed/wrote/debugged the code that comprises the running-
 > > operatingr
 > > > system.2 > > > : > > > list of wonderful engineers removed by Sue Skonetski > > >A > >w > >e@ > > Great. Now that the contractual obligation to Intel has been9 > > fulfilled, can we all get focused back on Alpha EV8+?  > >d >e >o8 > Your welcome too.  Glad you're still grinding the axe. >h  - A contrarian opinion isn't necessarily wrong.o  F I recognize the amount of effort that has gone into this task. Too badC DEC/Compaq/HP management didn't drive the business side of Alpha ass9 hard as they have forced this technical tour-de-force youuD (collectively) have achieved. The time, effort, and money would haveE been better spent having EV8 in the market now. Yes I know that Intel/B would not have given the porting money in that case, but don't youB think that an additional $3-4B in Alpha and related software salesF that has vaporized in the wake of June 2001 would have compensated for that?B  D The arguments posited by Comapq/HP management sound to me a lot likeD the wool the investment industry like to pull over people's eyes (my: specialty is financial services systems, applications, andD consulting). The mutual fund co's. and portfolio managers in generalC like to point out in falling markets that their rates of return are0? much better than their competitors - "We've had a -14.4% return:A whereas fund XYZ has had -17.9% return. So we're much better thanSF them." Relative performance is a sorry excuse. Do you feel better thatE your 401k or IRA has, perhaps, declined less than the market? Does ittC really make you richer and more able to retire the way you want to?e  A To quote the immortal lines from the intellectually hi-brow movievC 'Conan The Barbarian',  "Fred, what is best in life?  To crush yourrF enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation ofB their women."  It's actually an interesting allegory for business.A EV8, not Itanic nor variants thereof, would have done that in thenD current timeframe had development continued and been forced with theD same sense of urgency as the Itanic port has been. Compaq and now HPE have, probably fatally, lost sight of that. You don't really win warsgC by ekking out a narrow victory, you win by crushing your opponents.c= Narrow victories leave you battered, bloody, and bruised. Ther. opportunity for Compaq/HP has been squandered.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:37:28 GMTw1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> & Subject: Re: Oracle 9i on VMS use LMF?2 Message-ID: <3E3AF9BE.E3315B06@firstdbasource.com>   Bill McLaughlin wrote: > G > Can anyone tell me if Oracle 9i on VMS uses LMF? If not, do they haverE > their own "enforcement" or is it the same as in the past, where youe5 > are just supposed to use what you are licensed for?o > F > I use it at home just to keep up-to-date (the company I work for wasH > using Oracle 7 until two months ago). A couple years back, I purchasedC > a minimal license for around $300 but now I find that the minimum1G > license for VMS is for 5 users and does not even include any support.: > F > Last week almost all of us software people in the Denver office wereD > laid off, so I figure now it's even more important to stay current > with technology. > 	 > Thanks.  > Bill McLaughlind  G I have not seen any LMF pieces in Oracle.  I have installed on at leastoH 2 nodes and did not need a PAK.  I also know that was the first piece of1 code REMOVED from Rdb when Oracle bought it... :)  --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 10:57:46 -0800a. From: terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net>& Subject: Re: Oracle 9i on VMS use LMF?* Message-ID: <3E3C18A9.33115F2D@brandx.net>  P As someone working every day on 9i on VMS since it came out 16 months ago, I canN report that No Oracle doe not use LMF but uses it's lawyers to enforce it's 9i# copy write. Using OS features tendseB to go against the grain at Oracle where they would rather reinventB a 4 sided wheel that works on every platform that just wrap and/or? interface their code adapter to whatever works there naturally.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 16:33:17 GMT0+ From: "Jeremy Robbins" <jcrobbins2@cox.net>i' Subject: Perl Readdir and file versions 9 Message-ID: <hFS_9.133067$ui1.3201371@news1.east.cox.net>   L I would like to use PERL - readdir on a VMS system and have access to all ofF the files including multiple versions in that directory.  I am haivingB trouble decipehering the information that I have found on the web." Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks jerm   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 13:01:19 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>e5 Subject: Re: Privileges in a shareable image question / Message-ID: <b1ggeu$qdo$1@helle.btinternet.com>f   Hi,e  L My appologies to Larry and John for misunderstanding them. That's what I getJ for trying to read too many notes too quickly. (I'd always wanted to replyD to something Larry said about a year ago and saw this as the chance)  J Your probably right that the code for the persona stuff is a good place toF start. (I personally think it would better in the Programming Concepts0 manual! Which btw is where UWSS stuff is now JF)  L But I did re-read this thread a couple of times and am very interested but I2 think I'm still getting a couple of things wrong:-  L 1) Are you really saying that you want to turn on SYSPRV in a UWSS and leave. it on when you exit? (I certainly hope not!!!)F *2) Why exactly can't you do what you want to do from *within* a UWSS?  ! A couple of questions might help:a  / . Sorry, but what is SFF_ (a mail related RTL?)-J . Are you a server handling many different clients/usernames or do you runK in the context of a user process? If you are a server then changing personaw< is the absolute bestest (whatever superlative) way to do it!F . Even though you don't own/control the mainline executable, could youH insist that it is installed with /PRIV=NOALL which asks VMS to make sureL that only "known" (installed and EXEC mode logicals) shareables are invoked?   Cheers Richard Maher  8 Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:O0+TOYHfR3AE@eisner.encompasserve.org... 5 > In article <Vyd+FRlGA9ri@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.  briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >tL > > We're not talking about executive level code in a UWSS being interruptedD > > by a user mode AST.  We're talking about executive level code inC > > a UWSS being called upon to enable SYSPRV and then returning toeF > > user level at which point a user mode AST is delivered, clobbering > > the naive security model.i > >.D > > We're not talking about using threads in our application.  We're@ > > not writing the application.  We're talking about toleratingC > > interference from threads (and AST's and condition handlers andiB > > exit handlers) in our _subroutine_ which is dynamically mapped= > > via LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL from within an application overi: > > which we are able to exercise precious little control. > H > In particular, I mentioned DECthreads as a component that does all theF > persona calls (on Alpha) required to solve the problem of privilegesJ > that are not supposed to be available everywhere in the running program.H > My particular suggestion was to look at the source listings to see howG > DECthreads does it, in order to see what an AST should do to play theT > game correctly.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 10:02:37 -0600.- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Privileges in a shareable image questione3 Message-ID: <bUh$yyYqp40L@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  e In article <b1ggeu$qdo$1@helle.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:i  L > Your probably right that the code for the persona stuff is a good place toH > start. (I personally think it would better in the Programming Concepts2 > manual! Which btw is where UWSS stuff is now JF)  D In addition to Programming Concepts, it might be a good idea to lookF at the RMS source listings, since it shows operations from inner mode.D Beware of the "lazy assume" logic within RMS, however, since that isG just a performance enhancement not required for correctness (and likelyo" makes correctness more difficult).   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2003 17:16:52 -0800+ From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)h Subject: Re: Rogues Galleryt= Message-ID: <bec993c8.0301311716.21109ef7@posting.google.com>r  j bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<b1bd4t$121m66$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...A > them for posterity??  Or were they all actually models in posedsA > shots rather than the candid office photos they look like??  Is ? > it possible some of our more famous (infamous?) group members - > are actually pictured in these tomes??  :-)e  E What about those poor DEC employees who underwent amputations so thatnA they could appear in the 1975 _PDP-11 Computer Family_ book, onlyuE to spend the rest of their careers staring at the DECWriters, wishing D they could still type?  Yet they still have smiles on their faces...  .   http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/p17.jpg   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 16:07:42 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>/$ Subject: Re: Submit at end of month?J Message-ID: <ihS_9.240338$pDv.104197@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message17 news:b096a4ee.0301311930.73239cf1@posting.google.com...v0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF news:<6jy_9.522108$F2h1.287066@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>.. .k? > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagem; > > news:b096a4ee.0301310715.6ea97302@posting.google.com...r8 > > > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message. > >  news:<30JAN200311091091@gerg.tamu.edu>.../ > > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes... + > > > > }<geff@excite.com> wrote in messagew@ > > > > }news:2119a17f.0301292159.201411cc@posting.google.com...: > > > > }> I'm sorry - I mean 31-JAN, 28-FEB, 31-MAR, etc.
 > > > > }>	 > > > > }tC > > > > }Do you want to be able to handle Feb. 29th in a leap year?i > > >rA > > > Yes, he wants it to handle leap years. Really, now. Did youa (that's3? > > > "you" as in John Smith, not Carl Perkins [I'm covering my  behind!R > > :-]kF > > > ) really want the poster to type "Well, make that 29-FEB in leapE > > > years"? I do suppose that "the last day of the following month"S
 > >  would > > > have been better, though.S > >iE > > I've seen some pretty weird stuff over the years in terms of what ) > > companies consider to be 'month-end'.t > > A > > I've seen companies that have fiscal year-end as Feb. 28 that  count-C > > Feb 29th as part of the next fiscal year, and others that countt Feb.= > > 29th as the 'prior' fiscal year. Same thing for month-endo
 reporting. >mD > That's wacky. The assumption should be "normal". If the poster has@ > something wacky like that, it is his responsibility to make it clear.F > This poster was being vague and if he gets a "bad" answer because of > it, that's his problem.d  E No more wacky that trying to get a user to actually specify what theyd* do and what they want. You know the drill,  B Programmer/Analyst: "Can you explain what tasks you do to complete+ this bit of work you want use to automate?"a+ User: "We want it to close our period-end."s  P/A: "When does the period end?"A User :"Well that depends whose turn it it is this month to do it.nE Millie does it differently from what I do, and when she's away JoannenA does it but I don't know what she does. I use calendar month end,iF except for the China subsidiary - it's different but don't ask me how.D And Europe has all those different languages so I just take the dataF from the fax machine and post it when we get it, which can come beforeA or after month end. And Australia is ALWAYS a day late with theiriF stuff, or is that a day early, and it causes so too many problems that- we never know when to run their reports....."g       > D > I was tempted to answer his first post with "Could you be a little > more vague?" >iF > > I've also seen companies that take every 4th Thursday or Friday as anD > > accounting period end - they get 13 month-ends per year that way (oneE > > large brokerage firm that has a large ugly animal as its 'symbol'i did.F > > it that way for many years - they handed out a photocopied 10-yearC > > table showing which date each accounting period closed so staffe could F > > refer to going backwards/forwards without having to rely on simpleB > > concepts like 'the last day of each month is when we close theD > > accounting period'). As a result, sometimes fiscal year-end fell inF > > December and sometimes in January using that method, and sometimesE > > people wound up working on Christmas Day manually posting journalc/ > > entries trying to close books for year end./ >.1 > Wacky. Maybe they're trying to confuse the IRS.l    3 'Scuse me? Confuse them? It's the other way around.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 09:52:09 -0500s2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>, Subject: Re: VAXcluster support of database?) Message-ID: <3E3BDF19.3050703@oracle.com>l  6 Oracle Rdb (previously DEC Rdb, RdbVMS, VAX Rdb, etc.)0 has been running on VMS clusters since, I think,; version 4.0 (or was it 4.2?).  Rdb supported mixed clustersh> where some nodes are alphas and some vaxes.  From the smallest7 microvax to the largest Alpha.  Well over 10 years now.    Lee Roth wrote:o< > In an article on Dell moving DB servers from Sun platforms; > to a Dell-based Linux cluster, comes the following quote:s > 8 > "Running databases on clusters of computers has been aA > technically difficult task, which so far has been achieved onlyr> > by Hewlett-Packard's NonStop group (formerly the independent> > company Tandem) and by NCR's Teradata group, said Illuminata@ > analyst Jonathan Eunice, but it's starting to become workable.= > It works best with databases from which computers read datag/ > often but don't have to write as frequently."i > < > Full article at: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-981893.html > < > My question: Wasn't a version of Oracle DB VMS-clusterable. > and thus should have been mentioned as well? > 	 > Thanks,o >  > Leee     -- (> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:15:36 -0800h. From: terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net>, Subject: Re: VAXcluster support of database?* Message-ID: <3E3C1CD7.CEF47A7E@brandx.net>  8 You're 100% correct Lee. RDB worked on clusters in 1985.9 Oracle ORACLE has had OPS since 1986, and RAC since 2001.wE The story is somewhat correct in that the distb. lock overhead really"A kills write IO performance, unless you can single thread requestssD to a particular box based on something in the data so that all parts= of a transaction occur on the same box (thus no distb locks).m? There's even a dramatic slow down if the hosts are on differentf QBB's with different memory.  < That's said I've seen some RDB benchmarks on the marvel that@ turn all this on it's ear as the memory is differently shared byE all hosts. Oh well  maybe in 2024 Mr. Dell might remember this point.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 11:38:09 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i% Subject: Re: VMS @25 CD now availableo' Message-ID: <3E3C0601.453110A7@fsi.net>l   John Smith wrote:o > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3E39E29C.3628983B@fsi.net...e > > Sue Skonetski wrote: > > >kF > > > Looks like I really messed up.  Folks told me that this could beE > > > distributed, so I did.  However you need to get an HP person toy > order theh	 > > > CD.w > >' > > Oh, for the love of ...t > >A > > * Heartfelt Sigh * > >o" > > Any psych. students out there? > >S@ > > Is there a name for a syndrome congruous with such behavior? > >nE > > That is, they spend buku box on a CD presentation, then reduce tor > zeroD > > or less the possibility of it being an effective marketing tool. > >nG > > * CENSORED * !!!  Will someone *PLEASE* put us out of their misery?t > G > Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools that don't have brainsa > enough to be honest. > --Benjamin Franklint >  > Sue excluded.   / Honesty requires both courage and intelligence.r -- D. Joseph Benedict, 2003I   -- e David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsv http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/g   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Feb 2003 08:26:07 -0800d1 From: brimacombep@netscape.net (Peter Brimacombe)e Subject: VMS on Itaniumm= Message-ID: <814f6e3f.0302010826.2a5d011c@posting.google.com>h   congratulationss VMS is the best!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:56:41 GMTi1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>n) Subject: Re: VMS to message Oracle users?12 Message-ID: <3E3AFE3D.B52AF466@firstdbasource.com>   Michael Hewitt wrote:l > I > Does anyone know of a way to send an on-line message such as a reply tosC > all Oracle users connected via SQL NET?  Any information would be  > greatly appreciated.  F email?  to my knowledge, SQL*net does not have a notification feature.G it is a client only app. it's like trying to tell Apache to notify it'sn6 users.  Maybe with some java applet that you write....     -- - Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.064 ************************ Hi,    Well, about bloody time! :-)  C Seriously, this is an amazing result! Surely the product of a truly L Herculean effort by all involved. I will be waving this in a lot of people'sI faces over the coming months. It's just great to see VMS punching off the  front foot again!!!   G Just one small question (from someone who sounds like he still needs to I sleep with the light on) is it safe to say thaݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ³ݪ    óݪ    ĳݪ    ųݪ    Ƴݪ    ǳݪ    ȳݪ    ɳݪ    ʳݪ    ˳ݪ    ̳ݪ    ͳݪ    γݪ    ϳݪ    гݪ    ѳݪ    ҳݪ    ӳݪ    Գݪ    ճݪ    ֳݪ    ׳ݪ    سݪ    ٳݪ    ڳݪ    ۳ݪ    ܳݪ    ݳݪ    ޳ݪ    ߳ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    ݪ    