0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 04 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 69      Contents: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: Batch job log spec Re: Batch job log spec Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users. Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users. Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users.( Re: Cobol to Oracle connectivity problem Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia- Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King? - Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King? - RE: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King? - Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King? A Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console , Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work, Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work( Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work Fujitsu turns to Itanium Re: Hedder full error  Re: Hedder full error " help installing OpenVMS 7.3 needed& Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.3 needed& Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.3 neededO RE: How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in? 1 HP regains #1 PC spot, and retains #1 Server spot   HP wants to cut losses (The Inq)$ Re: HP wants to cut losses (The Inq)= Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user = Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user = Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user K Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 L Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31)' Itanium gives VMS new lease on life ...   Re: Maximum of simultanius login  RE: Maximum of simultanius login Maximum of simultanius login" Re: Motif and SYS$QIO / AST in VMS$ Re: Multi-host SCSI adapter question( Re: Newbie question on defining a symbol Re: Newbie with dumb questions Re: Newbie with dumb questions Re: Newbie with dumb questions Re: Newbie with dumb questions RE: Nice newsgroup!  Re: Nice newsgroup!  Re: Nice newsgroup!  Re: Nice newsgroup! - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 A Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marvel P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marvel and Alpha RetaP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai OT: Nice newsgroup! # pathworks client connection problem  Re: Rogues Gallery Re: Rogues Gallery# Re: server SSH-1.5 on  openvms 7.31 2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...# Status of MySQL and Postgres ports? 9 Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt 9 Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt 9 Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt  Re: Very large disks on VMS  Re: Very large disks on VMS  Re: Very large disks on VMS  Re: VMS on Itanium Re: VMS on Itanium Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? Re: VMS source listings ? 4 Re: [Q] AUTOGEN error in VMS 7.3 - is this just me ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:12:53 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>  Subject: And the winner is? / Message-ID: <b1mm0l$j1i$1@venus.btinternet.com>    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:37:00 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: And the winner is? 0 Message-ID: <00A1AF2A.F55D16A6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <b1mm0l$j1i$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  >  >  >   G ?????  Of the boot contest?  I know it wasn't me.  I picked the 5th of  < February which was the birthdate of another famous computer.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:28:29 -0800 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> Subject: Re: And the winner is? - Message-ID: <3E3F092D.1779879A@NelsonUSA.com>    Dave Gudewicz wrote:  J > In the W.C. Fields movie "The Bank Dick", W. C. was rewarded with a firmN > shake of the hand by the Pres. of the bank he fumbled into not being robbed.@ > Oh and he also got a calendar, I believe of the previous year. > 2 > Alan and the 4 others, I trust you'll do better.  = Knowing Sue, I expect it would be a firm hug.   :-)  :-)  :-)   = The "fabulous OpenVMS gift" that I would like to get would be ; for TCP/IP to be included on the VMS Source Listings CDROM. = It's a bit late to help me with my problem, but it might help  some other poor soul someday.   : However, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they; have planned.    I'm not planning to quit my day job.   :-)    Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 01:25:52 GMT  From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com>  Subject: Re: And the winner is? < Message-ID: <AEE%9.37964$IL1.716228@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  % Which famous computer was born 5-Feb?    Mike  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1AF2A.F55D16A6@SendSpamHere.ORG...A > In article <b1mm0l$j1i$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > >  > >  > >  > H > ?????  Of the boot contest?  I know it wasn't me.  I picked the 5th of> > February which was the birthdate of another famous computer. >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 21:58 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Batch job log spec , Message-ID: <3FEB200321585022@gerg.tamu.edu>  " briggs@encompasserve.org writes...W }In article <1FEB200311465177@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: $ }> mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes...7 }> }In article <VXgvizKltEip@eisner.encompasserve.org>, = }> }A simpler (DCL only) method might be to get the output of B }> }SHOW DEVICE/FILES SYS$LOGIN and SEARCH the output for your own@ }> }PID and the string "jobname.LOG". You'd only want to do this= }> }after you'd used the F$GETQUI calls to determine that the 1 }> }logfile wasn't specified on the command line.  }> }   }> }--  	 }> }- Jim  }>   }>  < }> This part is pretty easy to do. Here is one way to do it: }>   }> FOO.COM = }>   }> $ z= f$getjpi("","pid"). }> $ Pipe Show Device/File/NoSys SYS$LOGIN | - }>     Search Sys$Pipe 'z' | - }>     @foo2.com }> $ sh log/job thisfile*  }>  
 }> FOO2.COM =  }>  
 }> $ i = 0 }> $LOOPING:3 }> $ Read/End=ENDLOOP/Err=ENDLOOP Sys$Pipe thisproc / }> $ thisfile = "[" + F$Element(1,"[",thisproc)  }> $ i = i+1% }> $ Define/Job thisfile'i' &thisfile  }> $ GoTo LOOPING  }> $ENDLOOP:	 }> $ Exit  } - }There are a few problems with this approach.  } I }1.  Performance.  You're going to be doing a lot of disk access in order A }to display all the file names of all the open files on the disk.   F If you don't do it very often, performance doesn't normally matter. IfF you only need it from a few times a month to a few times a day this is usually irrelevant.   C }2.  Audit logs.  If you're running without privileges, you run the C }risk of triggering a bunch of alarms as you try and fail to obtain 7 }the file access required to generate those file names.   G This could be the case. I suspect that on most systems it won't trigger  many alarms, if any.  : }3.  LOG file not on user's home disk.  You won't find it.  J The above was for the case where the f$getqui request for the log filespecL fails. You're supposed to try that first, and then this only if that doesn'tI give you a filespec. When does that fail? When the /LOG qualifier was not M present on the SUBMIT command used to submit the job. Under these conditions, E the log file is placed in the sys$login directory. That is why I used ' sys$login in the show dev/file command.   C }4.  LOG file not ending in .LOG.  You won't be able to distinguish C }it from your command procedure or any other open file on the disk.   G It will end in .LOG when you use this under the intended circumstances.   @ }5.  Directory alias.  The file name you get will be obtained by@ }traversing the directory backlink chain.  The result may not be }a correct file specification.  D I don't see how this is possible. It may not be the prefered form ofB the filespec (e.g. with a rooted logical as the base), but it willB point to the file when prepended with the actual device name, will3 it not? If not, when will it fail? Give an example.   E }6.  Unsupported interface.  You're parsing file names out of a human F }readable display.  Line wrap, truncation or any change in the displayB }format from one release to the next and you could wind up in deep	 }trouble.  } 
 }	John Briggs   F That is true. But it has been the same for a long time and it probablyC won't change. If it does, it breaks this. If you use extremely long A filenames or your login directory is very deep in a chain of long C directory names you might exceed the buffer length and get an error  instead of a result. Oh well.   F The problem is that there may not be a better way to do this from DCL.J (I havn't seen anyone mention one yet.) Perhaps you could parse the outputK from an ANA/SYS that was fed the info to do a SHOW PROC/CHAN on the correct G process. But that has it's own problems, including most (if not all) of 4 the above problems and probably some others as well.  @ It was just an example of how to do what was suggested. I do useB something like it in one place myself - I have web servers runningF on two nodes in a cluster from the same directory tree. The access.logG files for the two instances are in the same directory. I sometimes want E to know which of them is the one that is open on a specific node, and D I find out using a method a lot like the above, but simpler (since ID know the name and location of the log file, I search the listing forE the actual desired filespec rather than the process ID: no looping is F needed to build a list of all opened files to search, it just directly  provides the desired filespec).    --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:43:30 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Batch job log spec 4 Message-ID: <1030203233343.631B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  " On 3 Feb 2003, Carl Perkins wrote:  $ > briggs@encompasserve.org writes...Y > }In article <1FEB200311465177@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: & > }> mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes...9 > }> }In article <VXgvizKltEip@eisner.encompasserve.org>, ? > }> }A simpler (DCL only) method might be to get the output of D > }> }SHOW DEVICE/FILES SYS$LOGIN and SEARCH the output for your ownB > }> }PID and the string "jobname.LOG". You'd only want to do this? > }> }after you'd used the F$GETQUI calls to determine that the 3 > }> }logfile wasn't specified on the command line.  > }> }  	 > }> }--   > }> }- Jim   > Not replying specifically to Carl's post, but to the thread in general:  = Isn't the intent of this so that a batch job can find its own G log file?  (So it can mail it somewhere, or was that just speculation?)   G And don't all the proposed solutions require modifying the command file  anyway?   A So how about making an end run around all these problems (unknown B file name, multiple files with the same name, log file hasn't been0 flushed to disk when you want to look at it...)?   Here's my method:   4 1) Construct a unique file name (from the PID, etc.)  7 2) insert the following at the top of the command file:   / $ call logged_batch/output=CONSTRUCTED-NAME.log @ $ ! do any post-processing, such as mailing CONSTRUCTED-NAME.log $ ! to someone $ exit $ !  $ logged_batch: subroutine, [... the rest of the batch command file ...]  ? The log goes into a known place (the current default directory, = or you can specify it), has a known, unique name (the one you = constructed), and has been closed and flushed by the time you  are ready to process it.  < As long as everyone plays nice (doesn't delete your log file9 or deliberately spoof it), this seems much cleaner to me.    --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:31:16 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>% Subject: Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users. ) Message-ID: <3E3ED194.6070604@vajhoej.dk>   
 Andoni wrote: L > I have already subscribed to that list but I cannot see that there is much > activity there.  Is there?   True.   4 But still 26 subscribers (including several HP'ers).   So why not try it.  9 Not much traffic, but usually solutions/suggestions/ideas  for all quetsions posted.     E > I wish I could give you more details of the problem I am having but J > unfortunately I don't have any more.  My application seems to stall whenN > running a .class file (compiled JSPs are Ok) which usually ends up being the% > servlet or the first bean accessed.  > B > There are no error messages to speak of just that it shuts down.   Nothing in the log-files ?  7  > Have you never had this experience with Java on VMS?    No.   H But actually I run Tomcat 4.1.12 bundled with JBoss instead of CSWS_JAVAB (I just use the connnector from CSWS_JAVA to connect to my Tomcat.  , Do you deploy a war or a directory tree or ?   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 21:47:55 -0800 : From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)% Subject: Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users. = Message-ID: <7f15589f.0302032147.7c35fe03@posting.google.com>   Y "Andoni" <andoni@REMOVE.indigo.ie> wrote in message news:<b1mesm$u0$1@kermit.esat.net>... L > I have already subscribed to that list but I cannot see that there is much > activity there.  Is there? > E > I wish I could give you more details of the problem I am having but ( > unfortunately I don't have any more.    E Do you know what VMS version you are running?  Have you used standard B tools to examine the process state and resource consumption of theF stuck process (if that's what it is)?  If it's not a stuck process but@ rather a mysteriously exiting one, have you attempted to use theA accounting log to track its exit status?  Can you run the program B independently of CSWS_JAVA from Java on the command line or in theE Java debugger?  Are you sure there aren't ways to bump up the logging 4 verbosity to get more detail about what's happening?    $ > My application seems to stall whenN > running a .class file (compiled JSPs are Ok) which usually ends up being the% > servlet or the first bean accessed.  > B > There are no error messages to speak of just that it shuts down.  D Stalling and shutting down don't sound like the same thing.  Does it hang or does it crash/exit?   E The pthread patch to 7.3-1 released today has a paragraph that may or  may not be relevant:  @ o  Under certain conditions, if an application AST arrives while@         the Java garbage collector is running a process hang can@         occur.  The problem is that the threads library uses theD         default thread to service the AST (when upcalls are enabled,D         which Java requires).  If garbage collection is happening atE         the same time, the default thread can be left in an incorrect B         state, causing a hang.  With this fix, AST delivery is now8         deferred while the garbage collector is running.  - Full details at this undoubtedly wrapped URL:   d <http://ftp.support.compaq.com/patches/public/Readmes/vms/dec-axpvms-vms731_pthread-v0100--4.README>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:01:51 -0000( From: "Andoni" <andoni@REMOVE.indigo.ie>% Subject: Re: Calling CSWS_JAVA users. ) Message-ID: <b1mesm$u0$1@kermit.esat.net>   J I have already subscribed to that list but I cannot see that there is much activity there.  Is there?  C I wish I could give you more details of the problem I am having but H unfortunately I don't have any more.  My application seems to stall whenL running a .class file (compiled JSPs are Ok) which usually ends up being the# servlet or the first bean accessed.   @ There are no error messages to speak of just that it shuts down.  4 Have you never had this experience with Java on VMS?   Andoni.     0 "Arne Vajhoj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message# news:3E3EAB29.7030700@vajhoej.dk...  > Andoni wrote: I > > I am using CSWS_JAVA 2.0 for OpenVMS (Tomcat 4.0.4 ported to VMS) are  you? > > L > > I am having problems with my web applications crashing on VMS where theyH > > didn't on Linux/Windows.  I have ruled out most coding bugs but I am still  > > open to any/all ideas. > > K > > I have also used version 1.0 of CSWS_JAVA and the same problem happened 
 > > there. > K > > PS: I would really like to develop some contacts in this area generally  soL > > that we may bounce things off of one another as there is not much use of VMS + > > it in the standard Tomcat mailing list.  > + > I have created a VMS Java mail-list, see: ( >    http://www.vajhoej.dk/arne/vmsjava/ > for VMS specific Java stuff. > ? > Either subscribe and post a detailed question there - or post  > some details here. >  > Arne >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 11:42:36 -0800 , From: JimStrehlow@data911.com (Jim Strehlow)1 Subject: Re: Cobol to Oracle connectivity problem = Message-ID: <4b6ec350.0302031142.45a3d7c0@posting.google.com>   k dl1435@indiatimes.com (Raj Nair) wrote in message news:<f19d57d5.0302022310.22d11968@posting.google.com>... 	 > Hi All, F >   I would like to have my COBOL app. on VAX/VMS talk to my oracle 9iE > database on linux. Oracle doesn't support 9i on Vax and therefore I D > can't use Pro*Cobol as the bridge, so I guess I'll have to write a4 > driver to do this. Any other possibilities/ideas ? . : We install Oracle (8.0.5, 8.1.7, 9i eventually) on OpenVMSE and write C and Basic programs that access Oracle on other platforms. ) We utilize Oracle's Call Interface (OCI). . (I used to write Pro*Cobol at a previous job.) . = As long as you can SQL*Plus connect from your OpenVMS server, ? you can write applications that talk to the database on another 	 platform. E You will be limited in Oracle functionality based upon the version of / Oracle that you install on your OpenVMS server. : e.g. at one place we have Oracle 8.0.5 OpenVMS updating an% Oracle 8.1.6 database on Windows 2000  .  Jim Strehlow, Data911 " Oracle DBA Assistant and Developer Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 11:31:58 -0800 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Columbia < Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302031131.49611bb@posting.google.com>  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<XdqcnQuLCoKm0KOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>...5 > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message # > news:3E3E1420.354FB9AA@aaa.com...  > > ???  > > : > > Of course you can not just slow down and turn 180 deg.A > > The moment you start *slowing* down, you also start *falling* / > > down, which wasn't what you wanted, right ?  > > K > > The gravity force at orbit high isn't much lower then on earth surface.  > > G > > So you'd have to do a full 180 deg turn while keeping the speed up.  > > Not easy...  > M > It's actually trivial:  you just continually thrust at right-angles to your K > current velocity until you've gotten turned around (and time it such that H > you return to the same orbital plane).  But whether this consumes moreM > energy than that required to decelerate/accelerate is a different question.  >  > - bill  B It would take a lot of fuel and even more fuel to get that fuel upB there. And while I've spent little time thinking about it, I don'tE think it would be that easy to get back to the same orbital plane. (I D need to find a globe to play with!) You could, perhaps, do a delta-vA every time you get to the same point in the orbit. But a 180-deg. E reversal is still a huge delta-v and I doubt it's ever been done. And 9 I can't see a reason why anyone would need it to be done.   @ Also, by doing this you'd be rotating the momentum vector over aD half-circle, which would create a total momentum change (impulse) ofE PI*MV which is more than a straightforward reversal, 2*MV. (Actually, E since the mass would be changing, you'd have to do the integrals, but E still, a larger impulse would be needed.) Of course with the reversal ! method you'll lose some altitude!   B I doubt that there's much, if anything, that's trivial about space travel.   C As a quick related side note: There is good reason that rockets are @ launched from Cape Canaveral (or whatever it's called today). ByB launching from close to the equator, you can take advantage of the@ earth's higher velocity at that point which saves fuel. (GravityE doesn't spin with the earth, so this extra speed really does give you F a head start.) And since you have to launch to the east to do this, ifF it blows up, it lands harmlessly out over the ocean so no one gets hitE by the falling debris. And that higher velocity is slightly more than C 1000 mph at the equator. And it would be the cosine of the latitude  times that at Cape Canaveral.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 3 FEB 2003 19:50:52 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: Columbia 5 Message-ID: <3FEB03.19505286@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   B In a previous article, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  M ->One of the commentators mentioned that early shuttle flights carried repair M ->tiles just in case damage was discovered in orbit - but the NASA commentary F ->in the afternoon made it clear that this was no longer the case, ...  I An AP article I just read over lunch claimed this only only "considered":   F    Back in the early shuttle days, NASA considered a tile-patching kitC    that was essentially a caulking gun, but the gunk undermined the +    performance of the tiles and never flew.   7 From: http://www.jsonline.com/news/gen/feb03/115499.asp    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:59:47 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) Subject: Re: Columbia / Message-ID: <3e3ee4e0.61886274@news.eircom.net>   . On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:54:16 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   J >Even sadder that there seems to be some real chance that it resulted fromM >failure to learn the lessons of the Challenger disaster.  If it indeed turns L >out that the insulation from the ET damaged the tiles on the left wing, theG >cavalier assumption that it had not (just because some vaguely similar E >incidents in the past had not) bears a disturbing resemblance to the M >attitude that a few degrees more chill wouldn't make any difference 17 years  >ago.   E I checked this out on sci.astro, and apparently it wouldn't have made  any difference.   C - The shuttle didn't have anywhere near enough fuel to match orbits > with the space station, nor was it carrying docking equipment.  B - Most of the 25,000 heat resistant tiles are of different shapes;A even if it wasn't completely impractical to carry spares on every E trip, an earlier study concluded that an attempt to carry out repairs B in orbit would be more likely to make the damage worse rather than better.   C So it seems even if they'd known how serious the damage was, they'd A have had no option but to attempt re-entry and hope for the best. D (That or wait in orbit until their air ran out, which would not seem> preferable to dying instantly when the shuttle disintegrated.)  B As for using unmanned rockets to put emergency spares in orbit: if@ you're going to do that, why not just use the rockets instead ofC shuttles to carry out the primary missions (or at least the 90% for B which human presence isn't needed), thus avoiding the need to risk human lives in the first place?    --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:55:54 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Columbia 2 Message-ID: <gW-dnRX-NYE7kqKjXTWc3g@metrocast.net>  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in message ) news:3e3ee4e0.61886274@news.eircom.net... 0 > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 05:54:16 -0500, "Bill Todd"! > <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > L > >Even sadder that there seems to be some real chance that it resulted fromI > >failure to learn the lessons of the Challenger disaster.  If it indeed  turns J > >out that the insulation from the ET damaged the tiles on the left wing, the I > >cavalier assumption that it had not (just because some vaguely similar G > >incidents in the past had not) bears a disturbing resemblance to the I > >attitude that a few degrees more chill wouldn't make any difference 17  years  > >ago.  > G > I checked this out on sci.astro, and apparently it wouldn't have made  > any difference.   K To say that it would have made no difference assumes that there was nothing I that could have been done had the problem (assuming that was the problem) L been known.  That's roughly equivalent to saying that we should have written@ off the Apollo 13 crew because they were so clearly beyond help.   > E > - The shuttle didn't have anywhere near enough fuel to match orbits @ > with the space station, nor was it carrying docking equipment.  K Valid point in this particular instance, but irrelevant to the larger issue D of why, when pieces of ET insulation had hit the shuttle on multipleL previous occasions and on at least one such occasion caused significant tileH damage, no provision was made earlier to attempt to address the problem.   > D > - Most of the 25,000 heat resistant tiles are of different shapes;C > even if it wasn't completely impractical to carry spares on every G > trip, an earlier study concluded that an attempt to carry out repairs D > in orbit would be more likely to make the damage worse rather than	 > better.   I Gee, let's see:  throw up your hands and prepare to die on reentry, or do 5 something that *might* help?  What to do, what to do?    > E > So it seems even if they'd known how serious the damage was, they'd C > have had no option but to attempt re-entry and hope for the best.   K At least one additional option they'd have had - had they known there was a I problem by stepping out and taking a look - would have been to attempt to I adjust the reentry attitude a bit to minimize heat and stress on the left E wing.  Again, see Apollo 13 for examples of how much ingenuity can be - brought to bear once a problem is recognized.   K Would that, or any other possible tactic they might have come up with, have I helped?  Who knows - but it sure as hell wouldn't have made the situation  worse.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 01:40:43 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com> Subject: Re: Columbia - Message-ID: <vSE%9.151265$Ve4.9273@sccrnsc03>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:gW-dnRX-NYE7kqKjXTWc3g@metrocast.net...  E > To say that it would have made no difference assumes that there was  nothing K > that could have been done had the problem (assuming that was the problem) F > been known.  That's roughly equivalent to saying that we should have written B > off the Apollo 13 crew because they were so clearly beyond help.  L You're forgetting that the Apollo 13 crew had, for all intents and purposes,J an entire backup spacecraft at their disposal. They just needed to do someG jury-rigging to get it work. The Colombia crew didn't have that luxury.   E My cynical side says that NASA probably knew that the damage was more K extensive, but also knowing that there was nothing that could be done, kept 4 it secret so as not to alarm the crew or the public.   -- Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. Phone: 847-730-3193  Fax:      847-730-3194 Cell:      847-370-3071  Text:     melevy@vtext.com or               melevy@skytel.com   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 14:14:33 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <c7SEN66dhvd3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <8by%9.253151$pDv.49406@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:   B > These things don't have to be bigger than an average sized commsG > satellite, which fits fine on your garden variety expendable booster, & > and they only have to get into LEO.   D    These things have got to be hughe if they're going to have enough>    fuel to get to a distressed shuttle.  Much cheaper and more5    maintanable:  keep one on the ground until needed.   B > Since all the remaining shuttles have Canadarms, the spare partsH > container doesn't have to 'dock', it can simply be grappled and act asA > the mobile work platform and handy parts bin while an EVA is in  > progress.   G    All the shuttles, including the Columbia, had the Canadian arms when E    they are so equiped.  The arm is not included when not needed.  It F    take a lot of fuel to get that arm off the ground, for this mission     that meant a smaller payload.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 14:20:15 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <0Xfys8vAIFHm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <XdqcnQuLCoKm0KOjXTWcqw@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > M > It's actually trivial:  you just continually thrust at right-angles to your K > current velocity until you've gotten turned around (and time it such that H > you return to the same orbital plane).  But whether this consumes moreM > energy than that required to decelerate/accelerate is a different question.  >   C    If you could save some of the energy needed by changing the path H    you took you could use that to build a perpetual motion machine.  The@    amount of energy needed to change from an easterly orbit to aG    westerly orbit cannot be less than the amount needed to de-orbit and E    relaunch.  Since launching west is at a mechanical disadvantage it F    requires more energy than launching east.  You'ld have to have moreM    fuel on orbit to reverse direction than you started out with on the ground     to do an easterly launch.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 13:06:21 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?3 Message-ID: <g$jgmpsGcK7s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <3e3eb4b6_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes: >  > M > Name the 20 OEMs signed up to build Hammer systems.  Name the server vendor J > who will build 1p to 128p server systems, with mission critical support. >   E 	There are some key points here.  The fact that Fujitsu is committing ; 	the research dollars to creating a large Itanium system is  	not to be overlooked.  , 	If Dell at FRS is shipping a 4-way Opteron:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6703  7 	you can be sure their discounts will be appropriately  8 	adjusted by Intel.  It might turn out to be a $300-$400= 	million (more?  less?  how much a discount do they get?  Who A 	knows?  Intel and Dell) mistake on Dell's part to adopt Opteron.e  = 	Rob Young probability factor of Dell uptake of Opteron:  10%n  > 	Rob Young probability factor of Dell passing over Opteron for 	nicer Intel discounts:  90%  8 	I'm basing my "research" (i.e. guess, with a very sweet; 	probability factor) on two factors.  For what it is worth:   A 	1)  Such an uptake would leak out and AMD's stock would creep up . 	appropriately.  I see no move in AMD's stock. 	b7 	2)  The only thing that could come of it is badness on A 	Dell's part.  They literally could wipe out hundreds of millionsBE 	in Intel CPU discounts by becoming something other than a pure IntelC 	player.  ? 	So who is the OEM to ship Opteron?  Maybe IBM?  But would they , 	risk their Xeon discounts?    Probably not.   				RobV   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:10:12 -0400k0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?/ Message-ID: <3E3ECCA0.1438D144@vl.videotron.ca>    David Froble wrote: P > Rather interesting claim.  Anyone have any idea who, besides HP, really has toQ > use the beast?  How many of those 7 OSs are some form of Unix?  From my limitedsR > sight, I can see windoze, Unix, and VMS.  Aside from VMS, how many of the others > will NOT run on Hammer?e  M Perhaps Intel considers the various flavours of Windows that run (or close tog/ running) on IA64 as separate operating systems.    I can count: 	VMS 	Tandem-NSKp 	HP-UX 	Linux 	Windows  M That leaves out 2 OS, probably variations on Windows (Windows 2000 != Windowsd XP etc))   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:28:27 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: RE: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?0 Message-ID: <01C2CB88.35A71B90@sulfer.icius.com>  F I assume they've made improvements to the kludge they installed to runH x86 code, but somehow I can't see it being improved enough to be run W2KF or WXP at an acceptable speed. The first Itanic ran x86 at roughly theF speed of a 100mhz Pentium 1, a tenth the speed of contemporary genuine< x86's, and I believe below Microsoft's minimum spec for W2K.  F They may "run", but I doubt they'd be usable. But there again, this is
 marketing.   Shanee   -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]n( Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:10 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt6 Subject: Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?     David Froble wrote:eM > Rather interesting claim.  Anyone have any idea who, besides HP, really hasr toI > use the beast?  How many of those 7 OSs are some form of Unix?  From my  limitedmK > sight, I can see windoze, Unix, and VMS.  Aside from VMS, how many of theM others > will NOT run on Hammer?   D Perhaps Intel considers the various flavours of Windows that run (or close to/ running) on IA64 as separate operating systems.r   I can count: 	VMS 	Tandem-NSK: 	HP-UX 	Linux 	Windows  E That leaves out 2 OS, probably variations on Windows (Windows 2000 !=l Windowse XP etc)b   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 20:16:46 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302032016.5272bdbc@posting.google.com>v  v "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<elc%9.537956$F2h1.337267@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...+ > Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?m   only in their dreams ...   ------------------------------   Date: 3 FEB 2003 19:28:09 GMTo4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)J Subject: Re: DECW$STARTAPPS.COM and OPA0: /NOBROADCAST with serial console5 Message-ID: <3FEB03.19280909@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>n  D In a previous article, "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com> wrote:  L ->My question was why, when my OPA0: console has been set to serial (i.e., aM ->VT510 terminal), does the DECW$STARTAPPS.COM procedure go ahead and set the-L ->OPA0: terminal to be /NOBROADCAST.  My reading of the command procedure isD ->that DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION can never have a value of "WINDOW", soM ->irrespective of the flags returned by the INA0 DEVDEPEND2, the OPA0: devicesF ->will ALWAYS be set to /NOBROADCAST by the aforementioned bit of DCL.  F On an ES40 (with a graphics card) with CONSOLE variable set to SERIAL:  % $ show logical DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION B    "DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION" [exec] = "ENABLE" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)  = On an Alphaserver 1200 with CONSOLE variable set to GRAPHICS:a  % $ show logical DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION?B    "DECW$CONSOLE_SELECTION" [exec] = "WINDOW" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)  E Just a data point - we can't be sure the current value of the logicalm= was the same as the symbol when DECW$STARTAPPS was run. I setEF OPA0/BROADCAST on both of these systems in order to get opcom messages@ to the ES40 serial console and the 1200's DECW$CONSOLE process.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisond8 --                 karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:49:42 -0800"" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking workn( Message-ID: <3E3F0E26.52455C31@mist.com>   Swallowbrook wrote:o >  > Hi folks,a > K > I apologize in advance if I'm violating this group's netiquette.  But I'mcH > simply flummoxed by the paucity of job listings in conventional places* > such as Monster.com or the Boston Globe. > @ > I spent a dozen years in the VMS development group at what wasB > then call DEC (then Digital, then Compaq, and now HP).  I workedL > on device drivers, the print symbiont, project leader, as a group manager,C > and finally lead the introduction of CDROM, online documentation,-% > and the infamous but necessary LMF.u > D > I'm bored with semi-retirement, unsettled by the stock market, andF > so seek something interesting and challenging to do.  I'm especiallyA > interested in working with the extant VMS base which, I'm sure,VB > will still be running for another 10 to even 20 years.  Hence myI > choice of this group to post.  I'm interested in technical, managerial,a% > and business related opportunities.m > 5 > My resume can be viewed or downloaded (MS Word) at:e > 0 >               www.members.aol.com/swallowbrook >  > and I can be emailed at  > % >                Swallowbrook@aol.comn > 3 > Cheers, regards, and a salute to Columbia's crew,M >   5 Don't bother too much with the well known job listing ; sites.  From a local paper, Seattle Times, it was said that < Monster.com is where IT managers just gather information for; future references.  It has been suggested to use your local5; newspaper, if you're in a large city, than a lot of the web # based sites.  It's worth a thought.d  
 Good Luck!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:38:12 -0500}2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking workuL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0402030038120001@user-2ive1f1.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3E3F355E.1491C666@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"s <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Swallowbrook wrote: >> h >> Hi folks,	 >> [snip]e >i
 >Hello, Greg,n >iI >You'll find netiquette to be of limited value here. Flame wars and other  >such get going all the time.: >>G >Sorry to have to inform you, but VMS is dead. The final shovel full of/G >dirt fell June 25, 2001, the date of the AlphaCide. Go for Linux, *BSDm >or some other non-M$ systems.  O Just in case the original poster hasn't been following the newsgroup lately ...O  E We should point out that David Dachtera has become one of the leading>I bitter, ex-VMS folks contributing to the group.  When he makes a negative$G comment about VMS that appears to be a statement of fact, it's a pretty G safe bet that it's just his own personal opinion.  Best not to take hisrI opinions seriously unless there is plenty of independent evidence to back 3 them up.  The above paragraph is a perfect example.r  G VMS is not dead, but the IT economy is not very vibrant right now.  VMSaG jobs are scarce, but not non-existant.  Many other IT specialities have  the same problem these days.   ------------------------------   Date: 03 Feb 2003 19:40:04 GMT) From: swallowbrook@aol.com (Swallowbrook) 1 Subject: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking workp9 Message-ID: <20030203144004.27916.00000517@mb-ml.aol.com>   	 Hi folks,L  I I apologize in advance if I'm violating this group's netiquette.  But I'm F simply flummoxed by the paucity of job listings in conventional places( such as Monster.com or the Boston Globe.  > I spent a dozen years in the VMS development group at what was@ then call DEC (then Digital, then Compaq, and now HP).  I workedJ on device drivers, the print symbiont, project leader, as a group manager,A and finally lead the introduction of CDROM, online documentation,e# and the infamous but necessary LMF.g  B I'm bored with semi-retirement, unsettled by the stock market, andD so seek something interesting and challenging to do.  I'm especially? interested in working with the extant VMS base which, I'm sure,o@ will still be running for another 10 to even 20 years.  Hence myG choice of this group to post.  I'm interested in technical, managerial,c# and business related opportunities.   3 My resume can be viewed or downloaded (MS Word) at:p  .               www.members.aol.com/swallowbrook   and I can be emailed ath  #                Swallowbrook@aol.come  1 Cheers, regards, and a salute to Columbia's crew,a   Greg RobertU   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 11:58:56 -0800a1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ! Subject: Fujitsu turns to Itaniuml= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302031158.4ee5da4d@posting.google.com>   ; It's interesting that Fujitsu recently made a deal to buildlB Itanium-based systems (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7392). E Particularly interesting because it is Fujitsu who made the SPARC64-VeB chip that reportedly out-runs Sun's own UltraSPARC chips but still; trails the pack in microprocessor performance, according toh RealWorldTech's charts@ (http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?AID=RWT012603224711&p=2).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:28:38 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r Subject: Re: Hedder full error$ Message-ID: <3e3eed16$1@news.si.com>  - >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.w >., >------=_NextPart_000_0132_01C2CB88.4E5B6B00 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252", >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  D comp.os.vms is a text-only newsgroup.  Do not post MIME.  Thank you. --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comf5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991n8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:04:03 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y Subject: Re: Hedder full error' Message-ID: <3E3F2DA3.3669DFCA@fsi.net>-   Ned Trilby wrote:3 > h > "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> wrote in message news:<014901c2cb5a$6047ab40$3c03e980@bofpc>...; > > I am getting an error in our VAX 3800 system which sayse > > "Hedder full"r@ > >  I can log on to the system however cannot create any files. > > Please helpa > >r > >u > > Arindam Paul > >t > > < > There are plenty of references in Google - do a search ... > E > You should check whether you have run out of disk space - "show devhD > d"; if so a "purge /keep=3 disk$dkx000:[000000...]*.* will usually > free up space H > Find out why you are out of space - has someone copied a large file(s) > there?E > Is some application creating large log file(s) or a large number ofl > files? > D > Also If you cannot create files on disk you may have this problem:H > a;  INDEXF.SYS file is badly fragmented and cannot create new indexes;F > if you have a complete backup of the disk then reinitialize the diskD > (with "/head=100000" & "/file=100000" - check out these values forC > your system (again Google search may help), it is a while since I G > needed to do this but I remember the default values usually needed ton > be increased)mG > If you have no backup you will need to do a backup ("/image" is best)hF > & then initialize your disk and restore the backup - this will cleanH > up the indexf.sys file and defragment your disk (good VMS housekeeping3 > - usually a disk defragmenter should be running).C > Good luckM  H You can also get this error when the INDEXF.SYS bitmap is full; that is,D all of the available file headers are in use due to files other thanC INDEXF.SYS being badly fragmented with numerous extension headers. e   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 18:01:05 -0800(( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)+ Subject: help installing OpenVMS 7.3 needed < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302031801.7a5ba04b@posting.google.com>   Hi,t  D While not entirely clueless I have never built an OpenVMS system and? have no idea if any docs are available on the web.  The OpenVMS B Hobbyiest CD arrived with no documenation whatsoever.  I know that% it's not an ISO, it's an ODS so I rana  ! $ dd if=/dev/acd0a of=OpenVMS.odst   and then wrote:t  $ $ cat /more/emulators/vax/inst2.ini  load -r ka655.bin  set rq0 ra82 at rq0 OpenVMS.dsk
 set rq1 cdrom  at rq1 OpenVMS.ods boot cpu   $ cd /more/emulators/vax/i $ vax inst2.inid [...blah blah...]i
 >>> boot dua1   D now I'm in stand-alone backup and I want to install on to DUA0 which is device type RA82.   What do I type to do that?   Thanks,t BP   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:53:39 GMTd1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>d/ Subject: Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.3 needed 2 Message-ID: <3E3F29C2.B8A675C2@firstdbasource.com>   Baby Peanut wrote: >  > Hi,e > F > While not entirely clueless I have never built an OpenVMS system andA > have no idea if any docs are available on the web.  The OpenVMSoD > Hobbyiest CD arrived with no documenation whatsoever.  I know that' > it's not an ISO, it's an ODS so I ran- > # > $ dd if=/dev/acd0a of=OpenVMS.ods5 >  > and then wrote:e > % > $ cat /more/emulators/vax/inst2.ini) > load -r ka655.bing > set rq0 ra82 > at rq0 OpenVMS.dsk > set rq1 cdrom3 > at rq1 OpenVMS.ods
 > boot cpu >  > $ cd /more/emulators/vax/o > $ vax inst2.ini< > [...blah blah...]a > >>> boot dua1a > F > now I'm in stand-alone backup and I want to install on to DUA0 which > is device type RA82. >  > What do I type to do that? > 	 > Thanks,h > BP    ? What kind of system are you using (model??)?  If it is a "real"y  VAX/Alpha then just boot the CD.   from Standalone Backup:d   $BACK/IMAGE input: output:     -- e Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:55:15 -0600v1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: help installing OpenVMS 7.3 needede' Message-ID: <3E3F39A3.B3557C0F@fsi.net>m   Baby Peanut wrote: >  > Hi,? > F > While not entirely clueless I have never built an OpenVMS system andA > have no idea if any docs are available on the web.  The OpenVMStD > Hobbyiest CD arrived with no documenation whatsoever.  I know that' > it's not an ISO, it's an ODS so I rant > # > $ dd if=/dev/acd0a of=OpenVMS.odsr >  > and then wrote:u > % > $ cat /more/emulators/vax/inst2.init > load -r ka655.binl > set rq0 ra82 > at rq0 OpenVMS.dsk > set rq1 cdromt > at rq1 OpenVMS.ods
 > boot cpu >  > $ cd /more/emulators/vax/t > $ vax inst2.inie > [...blah blah...]r > >>> boot dua1n > F > now I'm in stand-alone backup and I want to install on to DUA0 which > is device type RA82. >  > What do I type to do that?  H If I understand you correctly, you're running a VAX emulator, apparently under Linux or *BSD.  @ In that case, at the "$" prompt, you'd type something like this:   $ BACKUP/IMAGE ddcu: DUA0:/INITt  E ...where "ddcu:" is the device name of your ODS image as VMS sees it.h   Hope this helps.   -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:55:25 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>X Subject: RE: How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in?0 Message-ID: <01C2CB72.E17C5F90@sulfer.icius.com>  H Sorry to follow myself up here, but I just noticed in DSLextreme's terms@ of service that these guys get fined $100 per spamming complaintD received against them: Go to it folks, we have a rare chance to take revenge!   Shane'   -----Original Message----- From: Shane Smith ( Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:48 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CompF Subject: RE: How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in?     H Reported to their apparent ISP, dslextreme.com in case anyone feels likeC chipping in with a "me too". There's a "report abuse to" in the for 3 groups-abuse@google.com so I dropped one there too.    Shanem  D Received: from mvb.saic.com by sulfer.icius.com with SMTP (Microsoft4 Exchange Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62), 	id CXG9TDMN; Sun, 2 Feb 2003 17:52:19 -0800 From: info@phaze-9.com (Jana)t X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms B Subject: How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in?  Date: 2 Feb 2003 17:57:12 -0800 ' Organization: http://groups.google.com/ 	 Lines: 43s= Message-ID: <b6addd01.0302021757.22792dfe@posting.google.com>e, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitn@ X-Trace: posting.google.com 1044237432 410 127.0.0.1 (3 Feb 2003
 01:57:12 GMT) ( X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com* NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Feb 2003 01:57:12 GMT! Reply-to: info@phaze-9.com (Jana)  X-Gateway-From: mvb.saic.com To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET    -----Original Message-----0 From: info@phaze-9.com [mailto:info@phaze-9.com]' Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 5:57 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6B Subject: How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in?e    B How many Publications/Magazines has your software company /product been in?  E Many software companies do not take full advantage of the opportunity = to hone in on top quality leads through publicity in industryf magazines and trade journals.s <Snip>   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 12:52:54 -0800p1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) : Subject: HP regains #1 PC spot, and retains #1 Server spot= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302031252.4a9b8091@posting.google.com>'  F According to Reuters, HP has regained the #1 spot in PCs for Q4 2002. 9 http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030116/tech_pc_marketshare_3.htmle  B According to Dataquest, HP retained the #1 spot in market share inD servers for 2002, at 30%, compared with 18.5% for Dell and 14.3% for IBM.> http://www.stockhouse.com/news/news.asp?tick=IT&newsid=1482490* http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-982004.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:27:07 +0100a9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ) Subject: HP wants to cut losses (The Inq) ' Message-ID: <3E3EDEAB.2BC1424A@aaa.com>0  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7577  9 ..."Could this be another attempt on the life of VMS?..."g   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:38:03 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>l- Subject: Re: HP wants to cut losses (The Inq)1/ Message-ID: <b1mr0a$1eg$1@helle.btinternet.com>c  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3E3EDEAB.2BC1424A@aaa.com...,* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7577 >n; > ..."Could this be another attempt on the life of VMS?..."o  K How's your German? I speak a little German and with the aid of some machinedG translation couldn't entirely relate Mike Magee's reporting to anything 7 Carly is reported to have said in the original article.r  F Carly was interviewed (presumably in English) by a German publication,I Handelsblatt, which published the interview in German. Bloomberg reportedtJ (very briefly) the Handelsblatt stuff (in English). The Inquirer picked up on the Bloomberg report.  1 Send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance?n  ) The original interview is at (it'll wrap)iL http://www.handelsblatt.com/hbiwwwangebot/fn/relhbi/SH/0/depot/0/sfn/buildhb* i/cn/GoArt!200104,201197,600955/index.html  + A Google translation of some relevant bits:l <snip>K HB: Since the announcement of the fusion between HP and Compaq 16 - for the0F IT industry little pleasing - months passed. The conversion of HP sankL within period of one year by 10 per cent. Nevertheless you see the fusion as" success. What do you fasten these?K Fiorina: The most important strategic reason for the union of Compaq and HP K was the goal of reducing costs and at the same time of improving the marketuL position from HP and Compaq to. The goal during the cost saving was with 2,5K billion $ annually starting from 2004. 2003 will already constitute savingshH approximately 3 billion $. Which concerns the market position, we gainedI market shares in the past six months with personal computers, servers and I memory solutions opposite our competitors. Beyond that we have very exact K investigations over the fact that our customers positively judge the union.a   <snip>  : HB: Why do these questions become only now so importantly?  F Fiorina: While the first months of the fusion was it more important toG define the four large divisions of the new company clearly so that they J could orient themselves fast at the market. Because each individual range,H all the same whether printer -, enterprise IT -, service or PC business,G must be able to stand on own feet. That means: Each individual business B field of HP must be for itself taken competitively and profitabel.   HB: What means that concretely?e  I Fiorina: That we will not subsidize weak divisions expense the expense ofe the strong.R  I HB: The PC and enterprise IT business of HP gain so far losses. Would youpI separate from parts of the enterprise, if these do not become profitabel?e  K Fiorina: In the IT industry today size and capacity to act count. Offerers,tK who are too slow or are not able to create an efficient cost structure willaJ disappear briefly or long over. This conviction was a reason for the unionE with Compaq. Not each division can reach the profit area within threecI months. But we set both for the PC business and for the business with theaK enterprise IT clear targets. If we should state that we operate a business, H in which we not profitabel to become to be able, we will consider also a retreat from this range.  : HB: How long is your patience with Verlustbringern enough?  D Fiorina: Not endlessly. We said, which is to become PC business 2003K profitabel, and it will become 2003 profitabel. I am very confident that wer; will achieve our goals also within the range enterprise IT.    <snip>   <ends>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:37:36 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>hF Subject: Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user$ Message-ID: <3e3ee120$1@news.si.com>  ; >I need to programmatically intercept email received by VMSd= >and inspect it before it gets POPped to its final recipient.a  8 Why not get Sophos' anti-virus program that runs on VMS? -- hI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comw5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.r@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991r8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 00:19:45 GMTo# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0F Subject: Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user* Message-ID: <b1n0v1$3ho$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  c In article <a7337236.0301310818.6fe174a7@posting.google.com>, sol@adldata.com (Sol Gongola) writes: ; :I need to programmatically intercept email received by VMS = :and inspect it before it gets POPped to its final recipient.h  F   I am aware of no documented way to do this, short of the brute-forceG   DELIVER-like mechanism.  If you wish to use an undocumented approach,yF   please see the MAIL transport image hooks that are shown in a couple:   of Freeware packages and in the OpenVMS source listings.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 20:14:35 -0800-( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)F Subject: Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302032014.5b61af9b@posting.google.com>>  g "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:<3e3ee120$1@news.si.com>....= > >I need to programmatically intercept email received by VMSd? > >and inspect it before it gets POPped to its final recipient.b > : > Why not get Sophos' anti-virus program that runs on VMS?  ? that's fine if you want to look for vms viruses (such a thing?)t: but to scan smtp bodies you only have one option right now6 and that's pmdf ... lousy but that's the way it is ...   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 01:59:00 GMTt# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)hT Subject: Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31* Message-ID: <b1n6p4$5co$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  [ In article <b1mjf9$1401cb$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:a  L :My main gripe with I386 boxes is that the BIOS interface is not very smart,= :even though it allows a lot of customization of the machine.'K :But my systems (and the ones at work) do not boot automatically, but wait  K :at the boot prompt instead. That allows for operator checks that are more h' :difficult to do with a BIOS interface.b  I   EFI is far beyond any IA-32 BIOS-like scheme I've seen or used, and EFIiI   easily provides the requested power-up options -- you can boot into thefI   EFI shell, for instance -- among many other capabilities.  By default. sG   EFI shows you a list of the local bootable disk devices it has found,aJ   for instance, and has simple customization and boot-order support.  (SRMH   can show you the disk devices that are present, of course, but EFI canD   identify the disks and the operating system(s) that are resident.)  J   The EFI shell is a reasonably powerful and effective command environmentG   for a system console.  (HELP lists a couple-dozen commands.)  EFI has G   some specific and significant advantages over SRM.  Some weirdnesses,dI   too.  (This statement is not intended to imply that the SRM console hade-   any particular shortage of weirdnesses. :-)   I   Both SRM and EFI are capable of providing a system console for OpenVMS,e?   and in meeting the expectations of OpenVMS system managers.     5   Both SRM and EFI have some cool features, too.  :-)l  J   The boot manager stuff would be intended to simplify the EFI environmentH   and console environment management for folks used to OpenVMS Alpha andG   the Alpha SRM console, as well as for diagnostics, and for support ofnI   specific hardware and specific system configurations.  As extensions towE   the EFI environment and to the available EFI tools and diagnostics.   I   Please see the available Intel Itanium information and particularly theuI   available EFI specifications for details on the console environment andj-   capabilities.  http://developer.intel.com/.e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comg   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 00:42:08 GMTp# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)aU Subject: Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31)p* Message-ID: <b1n290$3ho$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  [ In article <b1j3oe$13c9ua$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  :eC :"Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> schreef in berichth% :news:b1et1g$1nc$1@web1.cup.hp.com...  :> -----Original Message-----t :> :l :Congratulations !0 :After VAX/VMS, AXP/VMS there's now I64/VMS .... ..( :BTW Does it have a >>> console prompt ?     Not yet.  :-)8  G   If you want to see details of what folks are working with, please seeeI   the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) console specifications from the-F   Intel developer website -- developer.intel.com, IIRC.  The EFI shell@   looks like a cross between the MS-DOS and UNIX command shells.      Just remember the EFI command:       HELP -Bn  G   This is the command that the HELP text indicates will parcel out the hG   help text output (akin to UNIX more and other screen-at-a-time outputgF   tools), but that and a few other EFI commands scroll by far too fast"   to see without using the -B. :-)  G   We have various enhancements in mind for the console environment, andeH   there are certainly many various and quite useful capabilities already6   integrated into the default EFI console environment.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comd   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 16:39:50 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)0 Subject: Itanium gives VMS new lease on life ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302031639.17b02624@posting.google.com>-  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983162.htmlo   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:30:07 GMTi1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o) Subject: Re: Maximum of simultanius loginm1 Message-ID: <3E3F243E.44B84C3@firstdbasource.com>    arjan wrote: >  > Hi There,v > 0 > (I am a newbe ...., so sorry for the question) > G > Is it possible to tell an Alpha 800 server with Open VMS 7.1.2 that atK > specific user can NOT login in more than one time using a tellnet sessione > ??????  E There are many ways to do this.. one is to limit the MAXJOBS in their  login account (mc authorize)H another is more laborius and requires a bit of DCL programming in eitherH their login.com or sylogin.com. but if they are any good at DCL and have@ access to DCL and are not captive or restricted, then they could  probably figure a way around it.     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:01:58 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>) Subject: RE: Maximum of simultanius login 0 Message-ID: <01C2CBB6.DEC983B0@sulfer.icius.com>  B There was a thread on this a month or two back which contains manyE variations on this theme, for different basic requirements. I suggesth7 you use google.com to look back and browse the threads.o   Shanen   -----Original Message-----8 From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]' Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:30 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: Re: Maximum of simultanius login      arjan wrote: >  > Hi There,s > 0 > (I am a newbe ...., so sorry for the question) > G > Is it possible to tell an Alpha 800 server with Open VMS 7.1.2 that aoK > specific user can NOT login in more than one time using a tellnet sessione > ??????  E There are many ways to do this.. one is to limit the MAXJOBS in their  login account (mc authorize)H another is more laborius and requires a bit of DCL programming in eitherH their login.com or sylogin.com. but if they are any good at DCL and have@ access to DCL and are not captive or restricted, then they could  probably figure a way around it.     -- l Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:14:22 +0100" From: "arjan" <arjanmarkt@@xs4all>% Subject: Maximum of simultanius loginr6 Message-ID: <3e3ecd98$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  	 Hi There,A  . (I am a newbe ...., so sorry for the question)  E Is it possible to tell an Alpha 800 server with Open VMS 7.1.2 that asI specific user can NOT login in more than one time using a tellnet sessioni ??????   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 02:02:34 GMTC# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)h+ Subject: Re: Motif and SYS$QIO / AST in VMSs* Message-ID: <b1n6vq$5co$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  n In article <b0url5$mli$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) writes:9 :In message <atk53vkjsai8drehbd8p2fggio454lt2n8@4ax.com>,m0 :  John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:E :>Close - it's XtAppAddInput.  The VMS event flag is specified as theA
 :>"source"...iN :I seem to recall that 1 gotcha with the routine is that the event flag has toH :be in the same cluster (0) that xlib is using for its internal flags...M :Using lib$get_ef to allocate an event flag returns one from the wrong range.   F   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for details.  Specifically, please searchH   the FAQ for the section on XtAppAddInput.  The event flag requirements   are specifically referenced.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 18:57:49 GMTl" From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>- Subject: Re: Multi-host SCSI adapter questionK8 Message-ID: <Xns931779B2C6E4falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>  5 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote insE news:rdeininger-3101032213210001@user-2ive3j5.dialup.mindspring.com: n  G > In article <Xns931477288F10Dfalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>, Alfred Falkr ><falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote: > G >>I want to configure a VMScluster with some disks connected do a dual-a >>hosted SCSI bus. >> >>Here's what I have:06 >>   DS20 with KZPCM (Dual SCSI with Ethernet) adapter? >>      channel A of KZPCM is connected to BA364 4-bay SW shelfo% >>   AS800 with built-in adapter onlyn >>B >>I would like to connect the AS800 to the BA364.  What model SCSIH >>adapter to I need to buy for the AS800?  Will the KZPCM work this way,1 >>or do I need another adapter for the DS20 also?o >>D >>(Performance is not crucial.  I would assume that this will be an 4 >>improvement on the current configuration involving >>DSSI/HSD05/RZ-28's.)   > = > I don't know which adapter you need off the top of my head.H > H > The Guidelines for Cluster Configuration manual lists all the adaptersG > that support multi-host SCSI in VMS.  From that list, pick an adapter D > that is listed (in the QuickSpecs, SOC, etc) as supported for your > system type. R > D > Then add the appropriate cables, terminators, bus converters, etc.  D Well, actually, that's my problem: trying to make sense of all that 8 information.  I was hoping some one might know off-hand.   -- a@ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca e@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark RoadO1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadag http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4s  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:12:04 GMT " From: "Oscar Lerma" <o@rgv.rr.com>1 Subject: Re: Newbie question on defining a symbol 6 Message-ID: <o2A%9.478$yb.59706@twister.austin.rr.com>   David,  I Thank for passing that information regarding Google along.  I was able toO# find what I needed along with othere= helpful information.  Did not realize Google kept newsgroups.N  
 Thank You,   Oscar:  3 "David M Smith" <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote in messagef2 news:2b9t3vgft6gdm369qdiu75da43os8sj7h8@4ax.com...G > On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:53:24 GMT, "Oscar Lerma" <o@rgv.rr.com> wrote:S >_	 > >Hello,  > >EJ > >I am trying to define a symbol at DCL that would return the last day of the @ > >current month no matter which day of the month it is defined. >OH > As the previous poster said, you can find a good discussion of this inI > comp.os.vms in a discussion thread which was created on 29-Jan-2003. Go  to:a > 3 > http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.os.vmsn > I > put in the search string "submit at end of month", push the comp.os.vmss onlyI > button, and then view the entire thread. You will find several examples  with" > varying degrees of "cleverness".K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------uK > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com"K > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only))K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:59:56 -0800o  From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>' Subject: Re: Newbie with dumb questionsg8 Message-ID: <9hst3vktelps7e7n07g9ld3oraai73cfua@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:39:57 -0000, "John Travell"v <john@travell.uk.net> wrote:    / >do you have the graphics working under linux ?.L >You can verify exactly what card you have installed by shutting the machineK >down and at the console prompt doing a "show config". If you do this, postn
 >the results.nC >We will be able to see from that if you have the graphics hardwareeK >installed. While it would be a bit bogus to sell a machine as an 'ultimatenL >workstation' without a graphics card, until we know it is really there, andL >which variety it is, any advice on how to get the graphics working could be >a waste of time.h  E Yes, graphics are fine in linux. When I boot into vms I see a messageeC during the boot process that states something to the effect that noeB graphics hardware is detected. Once logged in and I issue the showA config command I get: %DCL-W-IVEKYW, unrecognized keyboard--checko validity and spelling.    E When I received this system it did not have a keyboard or mouse, so IiE got a MS keyboard and a Logitech mouse. I'll go into the system admine@ manual and see what I can find there for answers to the keyboard8 issue. I have no idea where to obtain a VT200 keyboard.   B As an aside, I today returned the Patrick Holmay book as it didn't= answer many questions I have. Purchased "Getting Started with!D OpenVMS--a guide for new users." I think it will be beneficial to myE learning process. Also d/l'ed and printed most of the Open VMS System:= managers manual which I will dig into over the next few days.n    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!m> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 20:08 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e' Subject: Re: Newbie with dumb questionsS, Message-ID: <3FEB200320083765@gerg.tamu.edu>  $ jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes...2 }On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:39:57 -0000, "John Travell" }<john@travell.uk.net> wrote:y0 }>do you have the graphics working under linux ?M }>You can verify exactly what card you have installed by shutting the machinetL }>down and at the console prompt doing a "show config". If you do this, post }>the results.D }>We will be able to see from that if you have the graphics hardwareL }>installed. While it would be a bit bogus to sell a machine as an 'ultimateM }>workstation' without a graphics card, until we know it is really there, andeM }>which variety it is, any advice on how to get the graphics working could bet }>a waste of time. } F }Yes, graphics are fine in linux. When I boot into vms I see a messageD }during the boot process that states something to the effect that no  }graphics hardware is detected.   G You may not have a supported graphics card. There were a few that thesekD systems could come with that didn't work with VMS. See topic 11.6 in the FAQ.  $ }Once logged in and I issue the showB }config command I get: %DCL-W-IVEKYW, unrecognized keyboard--check }validity and spelling.   G I think you'll find that this is "IVKEYW,  unrecognized keyword - checko4 validity and spelling". That's keyWORD not keyBOARD.  G "Show config" is not a valid command at the "$" prompt. It is a commandeI that you issue from the console prompt before you boot (the ">>>" prompt,oF also known as the "dead sergeant" prompt as it looks like a sergeant's insignia turned sideways).  8 You can get a lot of config info when it is up by doing:	 $ ana/syst SDA> clue config  A The first page is processor info. Starting on the second page youdB should see information on what VMS has detected as things attached? to the computer, including what it sees attached via PCI. (This G information shows up a lot better if you can view it on a 132 charactercI wide display - but I don't think the console of your system will do that.v1 It will look very poorly formatted if you can't.)   F }When I received this system it did not have a keyboard or mouse, so IF }got a MS keyboard and a Logitech mouse. I'll go into the system adminA }manual and see what I can find there for answers to the keyboard 9 }issue. I have no idea where to obtain a VT200 keyboard. c  F That keyboard is probably sub-optimal, but if you can type and get theF right characters to show up then it clearly works for the basics. (The6 non-alphanumeric keys could still cause you problems.)  F }learning process. Also d/l'ed and printed most of the Open VMS System> }managers manual which I will dig into over the next few days.  E That's a lot of printing. Isn't it over 300 pages? I hope you printedc
 it duplex.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:18:16 -0800c  From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>' Subject: Re: Newbie with dumb questions,8 Message-ID: <9veu3vk8s2p6t82ognrp0ugdm00jr42u59@4ax.com>  1 On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 09:39:57 -0000, "John Travell"u <john@travell.uk.net> wrote:  / >do you have the graphics working under linux ?nL >You can verify exactly what card you have installed by shutting the machineK >down and at the console prompt doing a "show config". If you do this, postp
 >the results.p      Here is the "show config" result    , system motherboard  0       0000    mthrbrd0$ memory 256mb Dimm 0     0000    mem0# memory 256mb Dimm 0    0000    mem1e( cpu (4mb cache)        3   0003     cpu0( cpu (4mb cache)        3   0003     cpu1  ( Bridge (IOD0/IOD1)  600  0032  iod0/iod1) PCI Motherboard      a    0004    saddle0n   Bus0 iod0 (pci0)  # 1 PCEB      4828086    0015   pceb0a( 2 CATEYES-4D10T     3d07104c  0001  vga0+ 3 DE500-BA  19011     0030           tulip0y  0 Bus1 pcdb0 (eisa bridge connected to iod0 slot1)  & 1 NCR 53C810      11000   0002    NCR0( 2 QLogic ISP 1020    10201077  0005 isp0      > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:27:30 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>' Subject: Re: Newbie with dumb questionsh8 Message-ID: <7sfu3vstveejg493uoit9423n29tjna2m9@4ax.com>  A On 3 Feb 2003 20:08 CDT, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:u    H >You may not have a supported graphics card. There were a few that theseE >systems could come with that didn't work with VMS. See topic 11.6 inf	 >the FAQ.   & Have printed it out and will study it. > % >}Once logged in and I issue the showeC >}config command I get: %DCL-W-IVEKYW, unrecognized keyboard--checkc >}validity and spelling. u >vH >I think you'll find that this is "IVKEYW,  unrecognized keyword - check5 >validity and spelling". That's keyWORD not keyBOARD.    You are right.  :-)o > H >"Show config" is not a valid command at the "$" prompt. It is a commandJ >that you issue from the console prompt before you boot (the ">>>" prompt,G >also known as the "dead sergeant" prompt as it looks like a sergeant'sl >insignia turned sideways).  >k9 >You can get a lot of config info when it is up by doing:n
 >$ ana/sys >SDA> clue configiD Thanks for the info. I have looked at this but am not sure if what I> saw was of any help to me at this stage of the learning curve.  F >That's a lot of printing. Isn't it over 300 pages? I hope you printed >it duplex.E  F It's a stack of paper nearly 2 inches thick! Kept my old HP4P busy for a spell!   Thanks for your assistance.p    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!a> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:41:22 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: Nice newsgroup!0 Message-ID: <01C2CB92.579E6FA0@sulfer.icius.com>   Welcome to the group, T.R.  D What's going on here, there seem to be newbies popping up out of theG woodwork. Did VMS get an interesting mention somewhere I didn't notice?a   Shaned   -----Original Message-----! From: T.R. [mailto:none@none.com]/' Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:53 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come Subject: OT: Nice newsgroup!     Hi  A My opinion that newsgroups dealing with serious/professional (and.D interesting!) matters often breathe a nicer atmosphere than the ones thatH don't is confirmed here. No endless 'slagging of newbies' going on here,H (even mime!) and generally a very positive attitude is what I experienceF here in comp.os.vms. Except for the ones that prospect a doom scenario forj# OpenVMS and the DEC heritage ;-)...n  F I think I speak for more that myself when I say 'Nice one, thanks!'...   --G T.R. (soon to be an OpenVMS newbie... as soon as I get my hands on thatn AS, 400 4/233 that's waiting for me harharhar!!)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:46:23 -0800o" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: Nice newsgroup!' Message-ID: <3E3F0D5F.6236A4F@mist.com>d   Shane Smith wrote: >  > Welcome to the group, T.R. > F > What's going on here, there seem to be newbies popping up out of theI > woodwork. Did VMS get an interesting mention somewhere I didn't notice?o >   1 I do my part in spreading the word about OpenVMS. ' I'm hopeful that OpenVMS will continue.b   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 20:26:01 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Nice newsgroup!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302032026.22edfc58@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2CB92.579E6FA0@sulfer.icius.com>... > Welcome to the group, T.R. > F > What's going on here, there seem to be newbies popping up out of theI > woodwork. Did VMS get an interesting mention somewhere I didn't notice?f >  > Shanej  7 maybe some people who still have a brain got interested36 by my pro vms posts on other boards ... I took alot of5 crap, even from so called vms users off of this boardi7 pointing out the advantages vms has over other os's ...a5 also, do you think the itanium port may have a littlev bit to do with it?   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 05:43:39 GMT- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)  Subject: Re: Nice newsgroup!& Message-ID: <H9rrwr.2sC@world.std.com>  = In article <d7791aa1.0302032026.22edfc58@posting.google.com>,o) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: 1 > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message.. > news:<01C2CB92.579E6FA0@sulfer.icius.com>...  H > > What's going on here, there seem to be newbies popping up out of theK > > woodwork. Did VMS get an interesting mention somewhere I didn't notice?, > 9 > maybe some people who still have a brain got interested.8 > by my pro vms posts on other boards ... I took alot of7 > crap, even from so called vms users off of this boarde9 > pointing out the advantages vms has over other os's ...t7 > also, do you think the itanium port may have a littleJ > bit to do with it?  D Maybe it was my post on Slashdot?  Just because I'm a hardcore Unix G guy (who runs quite a bit of Solaris, IRIX, NetBSD, and Linux), doesn't2A mean I don't have a soft spot for technical excellence elsewhere.R  E All things considered, I thought there was a rather strong showing ofnG support and some really positive comments from those folks who actually H knew something about VMS. Some of the threads of discussion even seemed C to have awakened a few lost souls who'd strayed from VMS years ago.e  J Be kind to the newbies.  Spend time engaging them in non-hostile technical* discussions; don't just tell them to RTFM.  9 -brian.  (Oh, and sorry about the ZK03 thing.  My error.). --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----D           "A tree or shrub can grow and bloom. I am always the same.5                          But I am clever." -- Racter..   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:41:34 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>l6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e3ec5ef$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:d3z%9.253525$pDv.240534@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... >M >zG > Come on Fred...with a Sparc port pretty soon everyone will be calling7D > OpenVMS the 'Portable Linux of Real Operating Systems' (tm).   :-) >-H > So if x86-64 is good enough for Sun to move their high-end servers to,6 > HP would also port OpenVMS to x86-64 and dump IA-64? >n  I I don't think I've ever said that x86-64 can't work.  But it doesn't haveG any H compelling reason for HP to dump IA64 in favor of it.  It is our PA-RISC replacement.   What I think is:  F o Compaq was looking for a chip partner for the UNIX market, and IntelF     was the one they picked *for whatever reason* - perhaps it was forB     business reasons, perhaps it was technical - or a combination."     So IA64 is what we were given.  F o HP was looking for a chip partner for the UNIX market, and helped to(    design IA64 as a PA-RISC replacement.  E o Aside from an infrastructure point of view (firmware for example) - 8    I'm sure x86-64 could be a "reasonable" architecture.   So we're here.  F x86-64 has plenty of merit when viewed as a 64-bit upgrade to the IA32I market.  That is really it's strength.  It only has any meaning if AMD is0 ableE to A) compete in price/performance with IA32;  and B) they can find a I server systems vendor who will build the high margin and high end systems9
 out of it.  L Sun is saddled with an aging, toothless Sparc architecture, and will need toF dump millions into it to make it competetive.  At a time when they are bleedingG red ink and can't really afford the R&D.  Plus, since they are FABless,2K they will always have a problem getting onto the bleeding edge processes inoH a timely way.  IA64 can't hold much interest for them, because they lose someH of their ability to differentiate themselves from HP and others.  x86-64 would0L be a way of placing the bet on who will win, and differentiating themselves.  J The worst case scenerio for Itanium, is that its use is confined to mostly thewI UNIX/Linux market for servers.  HP, SGI, and others.  Best case, it makeslJ inroads into the Windows server market, and becomes an alternative to IA32B at least for Windows servers, and spreads to other server vendors.  L x86-64 right now is placing all it's bets on the Windows market, and perhapsK to some degree the Linux market.  They don't have a systems vendor lined upsI aside from the ones, like perhaps a Dell, who will build IA32-replacementiD systems *if* the price/performance *and* margins are there for them.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:58:56 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>t6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e3eca01$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K As I was surfing some Inquirer pages, I came across this pointer (to some 6 I month old "news" clip).  It's about the oddest thing I've ever read for atF press release or a real news article.  Makes you wonder exactly who is" building these magic x86-64 boxes.  5 http://www.newisys.com/news/news_csi462_12Aug2002.htmi   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 12:19:14 -0800n1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)l6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302031219.2be9bf68@posting.google.com>q  g xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote in message news:<baa86a4a.0302021111.2db94598@posting.google.com>...e. > HP Calculators? Not profitable enough - fireG > all the engineers in the calculator division. Shut the division down.    > HP Calculators. Gone.i   Oh, really?  Check this out:  6 HP Expands Its Calculator Line with Two New Offerings 9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030123b.htmlh   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:29:14 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 316 Message-ID: <b1mjf9$1401cb$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  F "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> schreef in0 bericht news:3e3eaefd$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >e3 > "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in messagei' > news:00A1AF37.44455CFA.15@decus.de...o: > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: > >n > > > [...]s > > > / > > > > BTW Does it have a >>> console prompt ?i > > > >e > > >mL > > > No.  And when/if we provide a VMS boot manager, we won't use >>> so we > won'td0 > > > confuse people into thinking it's the SRM. > >iE > > Why??? VAX and Alpha use the very same console prompt and usuallya% > > people aren't confused at all ...l > >H8 > > (Are you obliged to use "Intel inside>" instead? :-) > >  >tH > 1) You'd be suprised how many people get confused by things.  You just don'tp > see the complaints.h >tL > 2) Itanium already has a console.  It's called EFI.  We don't plan to have > any required VMS firmware. >eK > 3) As a VMS-friendly feature, we are hoping to provide a VMS boot managerr (aJ > console application) that will do some things to make life easier - likeK > translate path names into VMS device names, allow set/show of environmentv@ > variables, and provide a boot command line similar to the SRM. >  Fred,n  G that third remark answered the question that was somewhat hidden in theC actaul text :-) K My main gripe with I386 boxes is that the BIOS interface is not very smart,w even thoughu0 it allows a lot of customization of the machine.L But my systems (and the ones at work) do not boot automatically, but wait at the bootJ prompt instead. That allows for operator checks that are more difficult to do with a BIOS interface.3H So a VMS boot manager would be appreciated, I gues I'm not the only one.   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:24:45 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <3E3ED007.AB8E51B7@vl.videotron.ca>s   Dave Weatherall wrote:' > Now all they've got to do is sell it!   H No, not yet. I think that the VMS group, hopefully to be spun off into aN speratae company and allowed to thrive independantly, should not start to sell VMS on IA64.  N The minute you sell a IA64 based VMS system, you commit to at least 5 years of, support. That will greatly add to the costs.  M The longer they wait before releasing VMS on IA64, the better it is. Not onlyRL does this give them a chance to cancel productization of VMS on IA64 if/whenK IA64 fails in the marketplace, but in the mean time, it reduces costs since-' they have one less platform to support.m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:52:54 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>16 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31$ Message-ID: <3e3ee4b6$1@news.si.com>  F I noticed that one of the people on the "thank you list" was one Steve Skonetski.  Any relationship?o --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot como5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.a@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991k8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:09:34 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>a6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e3ee89f$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>   Steve is Sue's husband.     F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3e3ee4b6$1@news.si.com...H > I noticed that one of the people on the "thank you list" was one Steve > Skonetski.  Any relationship?e > --K > Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comt7 > Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.nB > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991n: >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:42:57 GMTo0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <3e3ef046.64805091@news.eircom.net>   3 On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:23:39 -0500, "Sue Skonetski"-& <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote:  I >We are please to announce that OpenVMS has booted on an HP i2000 ItaniumaL >system. By successfully executing a DIRECTORY command the official date and; >time for the Boot Contest is January 31, 2003 3:31 PM EST.c  0 Well done! Congratulations to everyone involved.E (Not personally a VMS user, but it's nice to see someone with successe to celebrate :))   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."m+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.r! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacea   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:26:55 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <1L-dnSujmNpGlaKjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE news:v_C%9.546850$F2h1.315339@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...a >.? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageh+ > news:3E3ED59D.216D796C@vl.videotron.ca...s > > warren sander wrote:? > > > sue will announce the winners when she gets all the stuff 
 > finalized..E > >n> > > Hope you will strictly enforce the restriction that render > ineligible anyonehH > > who is friends with or has met any of the engineers. :-) :-) :-) ;-) >m >n? > Everyone knows that an engineer's best friend is their pockete > protector.  - Good Lord!  You must be even older than I am!    - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 19:30 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31, Message-ID: <3FEB200319303444@gerg.tamu.edu>  & xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) writes...E }Snore. Snore. Snore. Itanium is a pipe dream. I hope you know. Whereh }can I buy an 8-way IA-64?  K You might try SGI. They have reently posted SpecRate benchmarks for systemstH with 16, 32, and 64 Itanium2 processors so they must be either availableK now, or available real soon. Since they have those, they probably also have  a smaller 8 processor system.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 02:11:23 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31J Message-ID: <fjF%9.255986$pDv.112825@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagei, news:1L-dnSujmNpGlaKjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message >.E news:v_C%9.546850$F2h1.315339@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...- > >-A > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagen- > > news:3E3ED59D.216D796C@vl.videotron.ca...- > > > warren sander wrote:A > > > > sue will announce the winners when she gets all the stuff: > > finalized..o > > >:@ > > > Hope you will strictly enforce the restriction that render > > ineligible anyoneoF > > > who is friends with or has met any of the engineers. :-) :-) :-) ;-)l > >a > > A > > Everyone knows that an engineer's best friend is their pockete > > protector. >w/ > Good Lord!  You must be even older than I am!n    B Not quite sure that I qualify for 'fossil' status yet.  But when IF started Engineering school, pocket protectors and K&E slide rules wereF still in vogue, complete with belt loops. First calculator I owned wasB an HP-45, also with belt loops - still have it in my drawer, rightD beside my K&E. Still use the K&E occasionally so I don't forget how.C My daughter thinks the slide rule rocks, so I'm teaching her how toO use it.X   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 03:45:42 GMTn( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 316 Message-ID: <b1nd16$14mss4$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  2 In article <1L-dnSujmNpGlaKjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>,- 	"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:: > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageG > news:v_C%9.546850$F2h1.315339@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e >>@ >> Everyone knows that an engineer's best friend is their pocket
 >> protector.- > / > Good Lord!  You must be even older than I am!- >   < Even I stopped wearing one of those a couple years ago,  :-)   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:04:41 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>36 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31J Message-ID: <d3z%9.253525$pDv.240534@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  D "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in. message news:3e3ead6a_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageF > news:8Fv%9.210154$ej1.127431@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > >e> > > "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message3 > > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-UdUdddUdrdVy@localhost...i > > >r@ > > > Quite right Bill. There's a difference between criticising	 AlphacidedA > > > and criticising a port to Itanium. I don't remember anybodyuF > > > criticising the _principle_ of the latter, even if they did cast	 > > doubt F > > > on the efficacy of Itanium as a CPU per se. Again, any work done inC > > > moving the hardware depencies of VMS down the code ladder hasb got to3 > > > make it easier to put VMS on other platforms.t > > > + > > > Now all they've got to do is sell it!- > >- > >-F > > If they ported it to UltraSparc, they'd have it on a platform that has@A > > wide commercial success, a large mindshare, corporate America  buy-in.. > >3 > > Just speculating.  > >  > B > Geez, you can't win.  Why would we want to port somthing with no future?tB > The Itanium2 today is faster than Sparc, and HP will be building large scalecE > servers that Sparc won't get within spitting distance of.  The onlym thinge? > holding Sun/Sparc together is loyalty, lock-in, and intertia.a >0E > Ooooh.  Ooops, I forgot.  Andrew will trot out some benchmark dejuri (otherD > than ones they are fading fast on - like Spec) and claim that when runningyF > some specific thing, while standing on one foot, Sun has a benchmark nobodyC > else has... probably because nobody else cares.  Or whine because  they wayE > *they* run some artificial benchmark is somehow more realistic thanl how *we* > run the artificial benchmark.m >uD > Truth is, they've lost the workstation market, and they are fading in theE > server market.  I admire many of the things that they've done in SWn (andC > shuddered at some), but am completely unimpressed with their chiprA > technology - or it's future.  They need to port to x86-64, dumpn Sparc - andp$ > then things would get interesting.    E Come on Fred...with a Sparc port pretty soon everyone will be callingnB OpenVMS the 'Portable Linux of Real Operating Systems' (tm).   :-)  F So if x86-64 is good enough for Sun to move their high-end servers to,4 HP would also port OpenVMS to x86-64 and dump IA-64?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 14:22:51 -0600c; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 313 Message-ID: <5QYJzYGbPwI1@eisner.encompasserve.org>H  w In article <01KS0BY99VRS9GVJIW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iJ >> > When the initial Alpha systems came out, they were not as powerful as( >> > the larger VAX systems at the time. >> 2I >>    They were pretty damn close.  I ordered the slowest, cheapest Alpha H >>    DEC made and it ran so close to what a VAX 9000 could do I ignored >>    the difference.o > > > Even though those early ALPHAs were quite expensive (both inH > price/performance AND just price) by today's standards, I'm sure they E > were much cheaper (both initial and running costs) than a VAX 9000.g  E    VAX 9000 start in the US $1,000,000 or more.  My little Alpha costsE    us US $20,000 or so.  It was cheap in price and price/performance.e?    (We had bought MV 3300s just a couple years before for about-    $25,000.)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:24:34 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <v3tk01beguddc0@corp.supernews.com>p  D First, hats off again to the group in ZKO (and elsewhere?) for their efforts.  J All technical hurdles aside, and I believe VMS engineering can easily leapI over all of them, I'm hoping for VMS on IA-64 to be a commercial success,2E which is where the difficulties will be if past history is any guide.eK Spreading the word far and wide; beyond the current faithful would be nice.sH Getting the Sales force up to speed would be nice.  All of them involved1 with enterprise computing, not just a chosen few.a  H Getting current ISVs on board.  Getting new stuff on board.  Getting theL doomsayers on board.  Getting VMS mindshare back on board.  Getting VMS backL on board in edu big time.  Heck, getting hp on board by not saying "it's notF a growth platform" would be nice.  I still don't know what that means. Exactly.  F Not saying any of the above is easy, but w/o such efforts where is VMS headed?   F In addition to the engineering efforts, which have been excellent, VMSK needs:  the culture, the people, the attitude to make things change for the , better.  And in many cases, VMS *is* better.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 12:16:39 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancylJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marvel. Message-ID: <3E3E5DA7.4010806@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E37E0D8.2060007@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > B >>Incedentally you really have to laugh over the other "benchmark"8 >>numbers used to justify the Marvel performance claims. >>	 >>STREAMS. >>9 >>16 CPU's do almost exactly 16 x 1 CPU streams perf. Not-6 >>suprising when you realise that Alpha benchmark used: >>OpenMP and the NUMA omp directive which makes all memory" >>access local rather than remote. >>< >>Rather different from other results from Sun and IBM which9 >>allow the VM to try to optimise local memory access and,< >>which results in a ratio of local and remote memory access8 >>rather than all remote. With all local for example the2 >>maximum memory bandwidth of a F15K is ~172 GB/s. >> >  > 6 > 	172 GB/s is about half the EV7 numbers for 64 CPUs. >   7 Well you are just comparing one BS number with another.,  6 Incedentally the SUN BS numbers have a track record of6 being much much more reliable that the Compaq/HP ones.  7 Sun claimed a bisectional bandwidth of ~44 GB/s for ther7 F15K got over that without using all local allowing the1 VM do its stuff.  7 Sun claimed 12 GB/s for the E10000K and got 12 GB/s etc.  6 Compaqs claimed "bandwidth" numbers have always proven3 to be 2+ x their actual number. Anyone can read thei: Compaq bandwidth marketing numbers for the 8400, GS160/3209 E40 etc and then compare them with the streams results if  they want to verify this.e  7 HP similarly offend with the V class SuperDome etc. Fori8 example they claim a 64 GB/s bandwidth for the SuperDome' switch, and get ~1/3 that with STREAMS./  : Sun has a good record of matching its marketing claims for9 system bandwidth with actual benchmark results, Compaq/HPm	 does not.   3 > 	Besides, with good scheduling you end up back ins< > 	the same RAD (mostly).  There are many applications where4 > 	local memory access is the norm.  Read-only pages# > 	replicated in local RADs, etc.  h >     5 You use many to imply a majority, in fact as you know 3 the majority of apps don't fall into this category.   5 Anything that uses Oracle or any other RDBMS for that-/ matter falls into the local access not the norm-	 category.-  5 Nor is this apparently relevent as a discussion pointr0 in an OpenVMS newsgroup since Robert claims that, OpenVMS doesn't support local/remote anyway.   > : >>So hardly an apples with apples comparison but then what >>were you expecting.  >> >  > 5 > 	No matter how you splice it the UE15K (what is the 5 > 	"F" for?) is last generation design.  Clearly witha; > 	Opteron and on-chip switches coming to Itanium, the dayse% > 	of a backplane are quickly fading.o  7 Really, we don't know what the bisectional bandwidth oft5 the GS1280 is because HP havn't published a benchmarkl that measures this.o  : We also have no idea what the GS1280's performance running; apps is because HP havn't chosen to reveal this. So this ish also a total unknown.i  ? On the other hand the F15K does have published numbers and they 3 are competive with other large current SMP systems.m  > I take it from this that despite a resounding lack of evidence> to support your case that you are in fact claiming that Marvel= obsoletes all current large SMP servers from Sun, HP and IBM.,  < Now where have I heard that before, let me think, its coming= to me, ohh there it is, you said exactly the same think about  the GS320. Oucho  @ >>I/O benchmark, no indication on what the benchmark was, forgot; >>to include Sun which has actually published numbers using.5 >>Oracle that wouldn't make the slide look too great.s >> >  > 7 > 	Come on, come back with a better criticism.  Much asw1 > 	people debate you, you often have good points.d > 	Highlight them. >   4 Why do I have to bother, HP's "I/O benchmark result"3 doesn't have any collateral to back it up, what wasp2 the benchmark, what did it measure, what was being used to generate the I/O etc ?  3 On the other hand I can provide you with details of 6 an actual Sun benchmarks using Oracle and the measured I/O rate during the benchmark.  0 Strangely these benchmark results wern't used by+ HP in their slide probably because they aree1 uncomfortable close to the "I/O benchmark result"r claimed for the GS1280.i  0 The most amusing thing about you posting is that, you have simply recycled your GS320 hype and. changed the system name, very energy efficient& of you but not alltogether convincing.   Regardso Andrew Harrisonp   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:00:50 +0000t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancydY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marvel and Alpha Retal. Message-ID: <3E3E7612.9090108@nospamn.sun.com>  1 If thats your idea of a comparable benchmark theng3 you are in a lot more trouble then current evidencew which isn't great suggests.   7 It has no comparable results on other vendors platformsy= and it isn't obvious what can be attributed to changes in the 7 application and what can be attributed to the new Alphao servers.  < We don't even know what configuration the benchmark actually( ran on on either the old or new systems.  4 Is this the best that OpenVMS marketing can do ?????   Regards  Andrew Harrisonh Main, Kerry wrote:	 > Robert,h > J > And as a way to emphasize what you are saying about increases in OpenVMSI > performance, folks can review this large Customer application benchmarkcJ > that was done last Oct (and additional perf optimizations have been done > since then as well): > 3 > http://www.wallstreetsystems.com/news/hpbench.htmRH > "New York and London, Tuesday, 1st October 2002 - Wall Street Systems,A > Inc., a leading provider of global treasury and capital markets>J > solutions and services, today announced the results of benchmark testingI > of The Wall Street System(r) treasury engine performed under laboratoryeG > conditions at the Hewlett-Packard Company's New Hampshire engineeringrG > benchmark center. The Wall Street System treasury engine exceeded one G > million FX transactions per day, representing a five-fold improvement I > from the previously measured peak performance. It processed a peak loadc. > of approximately 45,000 new deals per hour." > D > Over a period of several months, the Wall Street Systems TechnicalB > Design Team, in collaboration with HP's OpenVMS operating systemJ > developers, redesigned the FX deal processing modules of The Wall StreetJ > System treasury engine, with a view to further increasing FX transactionH > processing rates. The FX deal processing modules take advantage of newC > operating system features created by HP expressly for Wall Street 
 > Systems. > I > Mark Tirschwell, Chief Technology Officer, Wall Street Systems, states:eI > "The tremendous performance gains can be attributed to a combination ofsC > HP AlphaServer systems and software architecture that enables ouruI > solution to operate resiliently in a high performance environment. ThisgJ > is particularly important as The Wall Street System treasury engine mustI > be able to process a high-volume of transactions for clients 24 hours am > day, seven days a week." > J > The global requirements of the customers of Wall Street Systems, runningI > an enterprise-wide solution, demand ongoing investment in benchmarking. E > In the specific area of FX trading, the need to process significant @ > numbers of transactions is essential in running a worldwide FXF > operation. During the tests, new, advanced techniques were developed@ > that enable The Wall Street System treasury engine to run manyJ > concurrent FX position processing queues and maximize FX throughput. TheJ > new structure allows deals to be submitted and completely processed fromH > a front-office perspective in a single step, ensuring users around the- > world are working with real-time positions.  > F > This industry leading performance was achieved running on the latestJ > version of HP OpenVMS (Version 7.3-1) running on HP AlphaServer systems.E > "I'm delighted to see this performance breakthrough, resulting from I > close collaboration between one of our leading Financial Services ISVs, H > and the latest technology from OpenVMS and our AlphaServer engineeringI > teams," said Mark Gorham, vice president, HP's OpenVMS Software Group."t > 	 > Regards- >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultante > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)9! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM3 >  >  > -----Original Message-----< > From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]   > Sent: February 3, 2003 7:33 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComiE > Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release fori > Marvel and Alpha Retain Trust  >  > H > In article <3E3E575E.5090004@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM > wrote: >  > G >>>If these were VMS results, you should realize that VMS does not yet sG >>>know anything about "near" and "far" memory on Marvel systems.  And 'H >>>AFAIK, VMS does not provide a way for applications to figure this out >> > 1 >>>and optimize memory allocation within the app.  >>5 >>Which is why the results were done as all big Alpha"2 >>benchmarks have been done since the intro of the2 >>GS160/320 with Tru64 which does know about local >>and remote memory. >>2 >>The fact that OpenVMS doesn't apparently support1 >>this makes the performance numbers published byh1 >>HP such as they are even more irrelevent to thea >>OpenVMS community. >  > B > I'll type slowly so you have a better chance of understanding... >  > H > VMS does not YET support NUMA-awareness on MARVEL systems.  On Marvel,I > it was clear from the prototype days that NUMA-awareness has negligiblenF > benefit for Marvel, at least up to 16P.  The extra work was deferredJ > until after first ship. In short, VMS on Marvel isn't NUMA-aware because > it doesn't need to be. > D > VMS has supported NUMA-awareness for quite a while on GS320/160/80F > systems.  For many workloads, it improves performance significantly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 14:03:02 -0500>& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retait8 Message-ID: <k1ft3vkqshbihohq58165irvnam9b0kl8j@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:23:21 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyd. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:    E >> VMS has supported NUMA-awareness for quite a while on GS320/160/80uG >> systems.  For many workloads, it improves performance significantly.r >hC >But not enough to stop people having to use Oracle Parallel Server B >in a box to get decent throughput. This was a recommendation madeF >to one GS160 customer when they found that it was in fact slower than" >their GS140 which had fewer CPU's >o  C I have heard this claim before, but never found anything of meat toa? it.  If you have a specific instance to which you refer, please.D provide more details.  Who, what was their problem, who advised them. to go to multiple instances with OPS in a box?  C I have looked throught this newsgroup on google and only ever found D one entry that mentions slower peformance th an their GS140.  It wasE not clear at all that they'd ever done any kind of performance tuning A on the system.  And there was never any further response from themC original poster to obtain enough info to draw any real conclusions.r  B I'm not saying that no customer's had problems, but I haven't seen( them, other than these vague references.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:52:33 +0100 From: "T.R." <none@none.com> Subject: OT: Nice newsgroup!6 Message-ID: <b1mrc0$14sjma$1@ID-172475.news.dfncis.de>   Hi  A My opinion that newsgroups dealing with serious/professional (and.I interesting!) matters often breathe a nicer atmosphere than the ones thatmH don't is confirmed here. No endless 'slagging of newbies' going on here,H (even mime!) and generally a very positive attitude is what I experienceJ here in comp.os.vms. Except for the ones that prospect a doom scenario for# OpenVMS and the DEC heritage ;-)...   F I think I speak for more that myself when I say 'Nice one, thanks!'...   --J T.R. (soon to be an OpenVMS newbie... as soon as I get my hands on that AS, 400 4/233 that's waiting for me harharhar!!)   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 15:55:56 -0800e  From: nmanser@progis.de (Manser), Subject: pathworks client connection problem= Message-ID: <2178d61f.0302031555.61084049@posting.google.com>.   Hi pathworks users,9    , I have the following home LAN configuration:   1 PC (WIN2000) 				w@ 1 AS 800 5/400 (OpenVMS 7.1,DECNET V 7.1,UCX 4.1,Pathworks 6.0B)      and have the following License     Active licenses on node SERVER:   > ------- Product ID --------    ---- Rating ----- -- Version --O Product            Producer    Units Avail Activ Version Release    Terminatione ....J PWLMXXXCA07.02     DEC           100  0     100    0.0  (none)      (none)J PWLMXXXFP05.00     DEC           100  0     100    0.0  (none)      (none)J PWXXWINAT07.00     DEC           100  0     100    0.0  (none)      (none)   ....  G when trying to open a share (with win explorer) after successful login s6 the following error appears:  (translated from german)    * in \\SERVER\<share> could not be connected  M no connection to the server could be established, because the maximum number e1 of active connctions for that account was reachede  
 auf VMS Side t   $admin/analyse  1    ================= EVENT #85 ==================f  8 Event Time:   4-FEB-2003 00:26:13.64       Node:  SERVER Process Id:   202001CB: Event:        No server license for client - access denied  Event Source: LAN Manager Server Event Class:  Warning          Client:   PRIVAT-2R3XWQB6c     	 question:d   Which License is required ?      Any help is appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:49:26 -0500t+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>t Subject: Re: Rogues Galleryo8 Message-ID: <j7et3vcpidrivv6nbgt0264kejdk49cvcj@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 04:45:42 GMT, mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote:,  F >Yes... we were working at PK3 (parker street, bldg 3) at the time andF >there was an advertising photo which was being taken for Vaxen, aboutA >how there are so many engineers who stand behind the vax... they"A >were looking for everyone they could find.  So many of the RT-11w? >team members went out for the photo (taken from a copter whicht@ >did a descending approach from the east over parker street with@ >PK3 behind us but not in the picture).  We were all wearing ourB >yellow RT-11 T-shirts and were in the front two lines just behind? >and to the right of the vax in the picture... when we actually ? >saw the ad when it ran later (and I have a couple of copies oftA >the full two-page ad on one color print), we found that they had ? >retouched to photos and only *one* yellow t-shirt was visible.w, >The faces are still there (albeit small)... >,2 >Oh... the photo and ad was about 1986,87 or so...  B Hey - I'm in that photo too!  (Though I think I was cropped out ofE some printed versions of it - if I recall correctly, I'm somewhere onP* the right as you're looking at the photo.)   ...,  B Most of the photos in the old DEC handbooks were of DEC employees. They wouldn't pay for models!i      D Please send Visual Fortran support requests to vf-support@compaq.com   Steve Lionel Software Products Division Intel Corporation 
 Nashua, NH  = User communities for Intel Fortran and Compaq Visual Fortran:.    http://intel.com/IDS/community   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 13:46:51 -0600c; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)g Subject: Re: Rogues Gallery 3 Message-ID: <Y4JRHs5lX+58@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  K In article <H9puK7.1uqEF1@world.std.com>, mbg@world.std.com (Megan) writes: G > Yes... we were working at PK3 (parker street, bldg 3) at the time and&G > there was an advertising photo which was being taken for Vaxen, aboutnB > how there are so many engineers who stand behind the vax... theyB > were looking for everyone they could find.  So many of the RT-11@ > team members went out for the photo (taken from a copter whichA > did a descending approach from the east over parker street witheA > PK3 behind us but not in the picture).  We were all wearing our C > yellow RT-11 T-shirts and were in the front two lines just behindd@ > and to the right of the vax in the picture... when we actually@ > saw the ad when it ran later (and I have a couple of copies ofB > the full two-page ad on one color print), we found that they had@ > retouched to photos and only *one* yellow t-shirt was visible.- > The faces are still there (albeit small)...m  H Is that the one like mine that says on the back "Who says you can't love* something that's small and finishes fast"?  1 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"-& 		>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<B Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://www.pleimling.org/le/Phantom4000.pdfL     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B 	Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century   ------------------------------  " Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:00:06 GMT' From: Rick Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>e, Subject: Re: server SSH-1.5 on  openvms 7.31) Message-ID: <3E3ED856.7DD3864F@uiowa.edu>-   legeard wrote:< > I've try to install my ssh server on a alpha open vms 7.31% > All installations are OK ( i think)c	 > opensslV > netlib 2.3  > ssh_serv SSH-1.5-OSU_1.5alpha6 > L > ssh client works with "FISH" (for example : i can reach a ssh linux server' > the compilation of SSH-SERVER ( is OK1J > The generation of keys are OK ( with ssh_server_startup.com INITIAL_KEY)% > But the server don't want to work .l  D 	I am using this on my Alpha OpenVMS v7.3-1 with no problem.  It wasI built initially when the system was only OpenVMS v7.1 and then I upgradedeI recently to OpenVMS v7.3-1.  I have not attempted to rebuild it since the  VMS upgrade.  F 	You did not list the OpenSSL release.  I believe that is currently at) v0.9.7.  Though I am still using v0.9.6h.o  * 	I don't recall that NetLib was necessary.   > And the test give5 >  > @ SSH_SERVER_STARTUP.COM test  [...snip...]1 > $    mcr $3$DKB102:[SSH.SSH_SERV]ssh_server.exes! > ssh_home_dir:ssh_parameters.dat.E > main thread: SSH-1.5-OSU_1.5alpha6 server initializing, 30-JAN-2003A
 > 15:46:54.26@5 > main thread: Process initiator startup status: 1 ''o+ > main thread: rsa_engine startup status: 1 - > main thread: Error creating server context:i > %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort > %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort > $ exit $status  E 	You might contact the author, Dave Jones, and see if the final errori0 about server context creation suggests anything.  H 	Are you executing the server startup with a priv account?  What happens/ when you execute it with the Install parameter?s   	@ SSH_Server_StartUp Install)   rick   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:42:04 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...a6 Message-ID: <b1mk76$14h8le$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  F "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> schreef in0 bericht news:3e3eb302$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >s% > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" ' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>o; > wrote in message news:3E3E7490.5030000@nospamn.sun.com...t > >  > > 4 > > Of course they do its the only strategy they can7 > > adopt given the decisions that they have made, thati/ > > doesn't detract from its inherant bogosity.e > >o >eF > I'm gonna start a file of Andrew quotes to trot out when Sun finally > abandons Sparc.( >  You'd better hurry :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:22:30 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>i; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...s$ Message-ID: <3e3eeba6$1@news.si.com>  I >Regardless of the platform choice, the port to another architecture is aF very >good thing. >@0 >1) it shows that VMS is not DEC/VAX/Alpha only.  F It would seem that only Linux now runs on more hardware platforms than OpenVMS. -- lI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comt5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.r@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:37:15 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...a2 Message-ID: <3uicnY_YF-rVlqKjXTWcqA@metrocast.net>  F "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:3e3eeba6$1@news.si.com...K > >Regardless of the platform choice, the port to another architecture is a0 > very > >good thing. > >m2 > >1) it shows that VMS is not DEC/VAX/Alpha only. >BH > It would seem that only Linux now runs on more hardware platforms than
 > OpenVMS.  I Don't let the *BSD people hear you say that.  For that matter, if SolariseL still runs on the old 68K-based hardware it also outranks VMS:  68K, currentF SPARC (plus the old 32-bit SPARC and the current SPARC64 from Fujitsu,C either of which *might* be considered an additional platform), IA32rL (presumably both Intel and AMD), and (at least according to what I've heard)B Itanic (no, it's not a product there, but neither - yet - is VMS).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 03:32:37 GMTm( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon); Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...o6 Message-ID: <b1nc8k$14mss4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  $ In article <3e3eeba6$1@news.si.com>,> 	"Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:J >>Regardless of the platform choice, the port to another architecture is a > very
 >>good thing.a >>1 >>1) it shows that VMS is not DEC/VAX/Alpha only.o > H > It would seem that only Linux now runs on more hardware platforms than
 > OpenVMS.   Sorry, that would be wrong."  G FreeBSD runs on i386, alpha, ia64, sparc64 and pc98 (whatever that is).o  E And we won't even go into how many different systems are supported by  NetBSD and OpenBSD.0   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:19:34 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>a; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...r. Message-ID: <3e3eb2b6$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>s7 wrote in message news:3E3E5528.40805@nospamn.sun.com...  >  >l9 > If Itanium struggles as many people on this group thinko  F Itanium will succeed.  The only question is how large it will succeed.J Worst case, it provides an architecture for the big-iron UNIX vendors thatH they don't have to roll themselves.  Best case, it eventually takes over/ from IA32 as the most widely used architecture.c   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 23:54:14 -060091 From: Richard Banks <rbanks_@_arel_com_au.nospam>s, Subject: Status of MySQL and Postgres ports?? Message-ID: <Xns9318AED358379rbanksatarelcomau@128.242.171.114>e   Hi all,s  J I noticed some messages toward the end of last year on a few projects for ( porting MySQL and PostgreSQL to OpenVMS.  I I'm just wondering what the status of these is and if there are any home n pages for the projects.t   Thanks for any info.   -- r Regards,   Richard Banks   5 See http://www.arel.com for Textile ERP & POS systemsp6 See http://www.bchatcorp.com for B2B Messaging Toolkit    K -----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------:G    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!oM -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:48:28 +0100p. From: labadie <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>B Subject: Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt) Message-ID: <3E3EE3AC.EFCBD9C6@127.0.0.1>d  
 Andrew wrote:e   > Hi.t > : > We are having a major problem with one of our VMS boxes. >e > Version of VMS 7.1-2 UCX 4.2   Hello   0 > If you have Ucx 4.2 with no Eco, you are bold.  $ You should apply the Eco 4 or Eco 5.G Your problem seems to be related to Ucx only, so some output might help: $ ucx sh dev
 $ ucx sh commF $ ucx sh conf comm $ ucx sh conf/mem$ $ ucx sh serv telnet/ful ...c   Regards.   Grard   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 23:04:01 GMTKL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")B Subject: Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt6 Message-ID: <00A1AF1D.F3150ABB@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  k In article <88f6adbc.0302030929.3b26c60b@posting.google.com>, freestyle_london@yahoo.co.uk (Andrew) writes:  >Hi. >a9 >We are having a major problem with one of our VMS boxes.i >. >Version of VMS 7.1-2 UCX 4.2  >i >yE >Basically when we try to connect it seems to establish a connection. F >But that I mean you get a cursor in the top right hand to the screen.8 >To demonstrate what I am saying hear try the following: >t> >use Windows telnet to connect to a fake host. You will see an= >hourglass appear. This is because no response has come back.iE >What we find is that when connecting to the fauly VMS box the cursorrE >appears. This means that a connection has been made. Infact there isiG >about a 40 second interval where we tried all machine within an officetG >10 PCs all sitting there with a cursor. Then **BANG** they all get thed" >login prompt at the same time !!! >eA >While the above was not connecting we also we tried a 'set host'-* >command from another VMS box. It worked ! >5= >We could also ping with 0ms !!! While not getting the prompt: >e >S+ >Has anyone seem this before please help...D >b% >We have already tried the following:>% >- Network sniffering / cisco supportm >- DNS testing  M Does UCX 4.2 have a separate telnet process?  While I don't claim this is themK answer, the symptoms you describe aren't inconsistent with, say, the telnet.L server process getting swapped out, then having to roll back in, which couldB take a while on a system with significantly overcommitted memory.   F I'd suggest trying your experiment again a few more times while doing H $ SHOW SYSTEM , $ SHOW MEMORY, etc, to get some idea of what's happening on the VMS end.v   -- Alan.        O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056:M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 06:54:19 GMTd From: lbohan@dbc..spamless..com3B Subject: Re: URGENT: Intermittent response to display login prompt8 Message-ID: <apnu3vgo3pu9u9m4rif4vcngpf341ojtnc@4ax.com>  C On 3 Feb 2003 09:29:28 -0800, freestyle_london@yahoo.co.uk (Andrew)t wrote:  E >appears. This means that a connection has been made. Infact there isiG >about a 40 second interval where we tried all machine within an officegG >10 PCs all sitting there with a cursor. Then **BANG** they all get then" >login prompt at the same time !!!A >While the above was not connecting we also we tried a 'set host'e* >command from another VMS box. It worked != >We could also ping with 0ms !!! While not getting the promptd+ >Has anyone seem this before please help...i% >We have already tried the following:t% >- Network sniffering / cisco supportd >- DNS testing  ) While you say, you did some DNS testing, r  3 I would try entering a few of the PC's in question,m: into the local host tables (on the VMS side), to rule out - any troubles w/ reverse lookups (ip to name).   < with reverse lookup troubles, you'll see a long wait (120s?)> after the initial connect, but before the "Username:" prompt. > (it's a feature common to nearly all telnet servers I've seen)  = $ TCPIP  SET HOST  /NOCONFIRM/ADDR=172.27.30.111  JOEBLOGGSPC    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 16:57:10 -0400.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: Very large disks on VMS/ Message-ID: <3E3ED79E.8176F6BA@vl.videotron.ca>o   Jim Geier wrote: > J > With the evolution towards larger and larger disks, and now with the EVAJ > moreso than its predecessors, it is possible to have VERY large disks on > a VMs system.   M Back in the 1980s, VMS supported HUGE drives. They were so big, they needed 2 I males to lift, required a 1/3hp electric motor to spin, 15 ams circuit toe: power EACH drive. Each drive assembly had at least 4 fans.   Is that big enough for you ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:06:32 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Very large disks on VMS2 Message-ID: <mJ6dnc72H8u4j6KjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  4 "Jim Geier" <jimgeier@jimgeier.com> wrote in message- news:000301c2cbb0$caebaa40$6b3e11ac@jcgt23...mJ > With the evolution towards larger and larger disks, and now with the EVAJ > moreso than its predecessors, it is possible to have VERY large disks onG > a VMs system. Are there any problems or issues regarding how well VMSnJ > will handle disks that are 300, 400, 500 GB or even larger? For example,F > how does VMS handle things like the free block list or cache tables?A > Will these things get unmanageable  with extremely large disks?   I My impression is that there may still be 32-bit fields in the file systemnF (and possibly disk driver) internals that limit supported disk size toJ (probably) 2 TB (2^32 512-byte blocks).  Have you checked the FAQ (if it'sB not there, then perhaps Fred or Hoff will jump in with an answer)?   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 02:22:55 GMTt# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)x$ Subject: Re: Very large disks on VMS* Message-ID: <b1n85v$5co$3@web1.cup.hp.com>  _ In article <mJ6dnc72H8u4j6KjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:r :n5 :"Jim Geier" <jimgeier@jimgeier.com> wrote in messageu. :news:000301c2cbb0$caebaa40$6b3e11ac@jcgt23...K :> With the evolution towards larger and larger disks, and now with the EVA K :> moreso than its predecessors, it is possible to have VERY large disks on0H :> a VMs system. Are there any problems or issues regarding how well VMSK :> will handle disks that are 300, 400, 500 GB or even larger? For example,rG :> how does VMS handle things like the free block list or cache tables?fB :> Will these things get unmanageable  with extremely large disks? :gJ :My impression is that there may still be 32-bit fields in the file systemG :(and possibly disk driver) internals that limit supported disk size to K :(probably) 2 TB (2^32 512-byte blocks).  Have you checked the FAQ (if it'saC :not there, then perhaps Fred or Hoff will jump in with an answer)?n  F   Detailed information on this particular storage topic is included in/   the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).e  H   Additionally, information related to the directory cache processing is   included in the FAQ.  G   The FAQ is available in various file formats and at various websites,g'   including the following (alias) URLs:i  '     http://www.hp.com/products/openvms/x"     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  I   Please download and keep a current (text-format) edition of the OpenVMSeI   FAQ handy, and (most importantly) please remember to read and to searche   through the FAQ.    G   After you've downloaded and read through the relevent sections of the.G   OpenVMS FAQ, any additional questions you might have can be addressed0   here.     O   ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comg   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:01:06 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: VMS on Itaniume@ Message-ID: <20030204030106.67809.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  
 VIVA !!!!!  - I love someone at HP, I dont know WHO ! :-)))c   Regardsr   FC h+ --- Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> wrote:  > Fabio Cardoso wrote:& > > Does It will have LAN CONSOLES ??? > N > It depends on the box. The hp server rx2600, which many of us are using for K > early boot testing,  has excellent remote console support via its remote oB > management card, including TELNET and web access to the console. > 
 >   - Josh     =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilb fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?5 Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.l http://mailplus.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:23:09 GMT & From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid> Subject: Re: VMS on Itaniume0 Message-ID: <NcA%9.346$AU7.169@news.cpqcorp.net>  @ Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote:F > Telnet, or a browser, or turn them off (or disconnect the managementF > LAN) and use the serial port.  I believe that the management consoleF > stuff can be password protected.  But any time you connect any thingD > to a network - in particular the internet - you have some security > concerns you should address.  E Boxes like the rx2600, with their web/lan console stuff, still retaineB the plain serial console.  If the various security features of theD web/lan console stuff aren't to someone's liking, they don't have toA be used, you don't even have to connect a cable to them.  You can B instead walk up to the box with a laptop or connect a terminal, or' connect to a terminal server etc etc...   A For pictures of the back of an rx2600, the hardware manual(s) are  online at docs.hp.com.F (http://docs.hp.com/hpux/hw/index.html#rx2600%20Server) The "OperationF And Maintenance Guide HP Workstation zx6000 HP Server rx2600" has someD good shots showing the two DB9 serial ports, and the DB25 connectionD that comes with the management card.  The DB25 breaks-out with a "W"B cable into DB9's for "Console," "Remote Console," and "UPS" serial@ connections.  I've been told, but have not tried myself that theB pin-outs are such that if you wire-up the minimum for RS232 into aB DB25 it will match with what is brokwn-out by the "W" cable as the! "Console" on the management card.m  
 rick jones --  H Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 11:49:52 -0700a1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)v' Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? - Message-ID: <+9RHxKzl7bQo@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>r  / In article <3e3ec0fc$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>,  F    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:  0 > "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message6 > news:JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKENGCKAA.dallen@nist.gov... >>F >> Just curious: how long after the boot till the crash ;-) Or did you9 >> do an orderly shutdown? Or perhaps it's still running?o >> > M > You kidding?  It's probably been rebooted 40 times since then.  We're stilll > debugging. >   $     Can you run Adventure on it yet?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Feb 2003 22:29 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u' Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck?m, Message-ID: <3FEB200322295197@gerg.tamu.edu>  4 Earl Lakia <Lakia_n_o__s_p_a_m_@ipact.com> writes... }Dan Allen wrote: G }> 	Just curious: how long after the boot till the crash ;-) Or did your: }> 	do an orderly shutdown? Or perhaps it's still running? }> i }> 	Danr } = }So does one get the blue screen of death on a VMS bug check?  } G }I hope the system debugger and crash dump analysis will be available. g  }Always a pain with Billy boxes. } - }Just one of the reasons VMS is still around.   = VMS already does the "blue screen of death" on Alpha systems.d> When the console is on the graphics card, it is text on a blue@ background. If you crash, the bugcheck (or whatever) information@ comes up on the blue screen. It is unsettlingly similar to an NT> blue screen of death on those very rare occasions that you see  one (especially the first time).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:20:27 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>s' Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck?t. Message-ID: <3e3ec0fc$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  . "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message4 news:JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKENGCKAA.dallen@nist.gov... >tE > Just curious: how long after the boot till the crash ;-) Or did you 8 > do an orderly shutdown? Or perhaps it's still running? >d  K You kidding?  It's probably been rebooted 40 times since then.  We're stillh
 debugging.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 13:33:57 -0600h0 From: Earl Lakia <Lakia_n_o__s_p_a_m_@ipact.com>' Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck?i1 Message-ID: <ZP6dnSAjY5q1WaOjXTWcpQ@netnitco.net>    Dan Allen wrote:F > 	Just curious: how long after the boot till the crash ;-) Or did you9 > 	do an orderly shutdown? Or perhaps it's still running?v >  > 	Dan >     < So does one get the blue screen of death on a VMS bug check?  F I hope the system debugger and crash dump analysis will be available.  Always a pain with Billy boxes.r  , Just one of the reasons VMS is still around.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:55:59 -0500A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>,' Subject: Re: VMS on Itanium - bugcheck? , Message-ID: <3e3ec951_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  = "Earl Lakia" <Lakia_n_o__s_p_a_m_@ipact.com> wrote in messagee+ news:ZP6dnSAjY5q1WaOjXTWcpQ@netnitco.net...h > Dan Allen wrote:G > > Just curious: how long after the boot till the crash ;-) Or did yout: > > do an orderly shutdown? Or perhaps it's still running? > >e > > DanW > >t >t > > > So does one get the blue screen of death on a VMS bug check? >cG > I hope the system debugger and crash dump analysis will be available.f! > Always a pain with Billy boxes.r >e. > Just one of the reasons VMS is still around. >   K We took the first bugcheck a number of weeks ago.  We have been able to useT= a cross architeture SDA for the last week or so on the dumps.i  I The system code debugger is comming along right after the LAN drivers are  up and running.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:44:02 -0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>e" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?8 Message-ID: <mhkt3vs96l8bob4rp4v8fi6mnhsugmg5jt@4ax.com>  0 On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 22:41:05 GMT, Michael Austin# <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:oI >hmmmmm.. now THAT'S the attitude to have with someone you are trying getn1 >something from...  some people's kids... sheesh!r  ; riiiiiight. Like he had any intention of helping me anyhow.f' I put him in the PLOINK file already...o   Dan.- vms user since 1978, dec user since june 1976d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:45:36 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>= Subject: Re: [Q] AUTOGEN error in VMS 7.3 - is this just me ?e6 Message-ID: <b1mkdv$14ef6o$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  7 "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> schreef in berichte& news:b1ma3d$114q@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk... >o: > "Andy Stoffel" <a.stoffel@adelphia.net> wrote in message6 > news:5kx%9.614$jR3.556239@news1.news.adelphia.net...G > > A simple question... is there a "bug" in the TESTFILES phase in theI8 > > version of SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN.COM in VMS 7.3/Alpha ? >fI > Sure looks like it. VMS 7.3-1 too. It only kicks in when you run out ofS space,- > and explicitly specify TESTFILES (I think).A >aD That explains why I did not see that on my AXP/VMS 7.3 system: I run GETPARAMS REBOOT cycles only.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.069 ************************