0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 73      Contents: Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question < Re: Alpha workstation floppy drive -- Problem solved, thanks Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: And the winner is? Re: Batch job log spec Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia Re: Columbia- Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?  Re: CTERM weirdness on VAX Re: CTERM weirdness on VAX DCL scripting for mail changes" Re: DCL scripting for mail changes Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? RE: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? RE: E*trade replacing VMS? RE: E*trade replacing VMS?, Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work, Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work. Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???2 RE: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???= Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user  Installing Watcher Re: Installing Watcher! Interested in Linux on Mainframe? % Re: Interested in Linux on Mainframe? P Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan  31 JanP Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 3131  Re: Maximum of simultanius login Re: Newbie @ OpenVMS- Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Re: Oracle 9i and ODS-5 4 python - was Re: Status of MySQL and Postgres ports?8 Re: python - was Re: Status of MySQL and Postgres ports? SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500 2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ... Re: Space Shuttle software Re: Space Shuttle software# Re: symbios 53c875j scsi controller  Re: TCP IP PAK- Re: Telnet  to a BIND Sever & Load Balancing. - Re: Telnet  to a BIND Sever & Load Balancing. 3 Re: Trouble with ext. CD-ROM on VAXstation 4000/VLC 7 VAX/VMS Hobbyist Kit for VWS (VAX Workstation Software) ; Re: VAX/VMS Hobbyist Kit for VWS (VAX Workstation Software)  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  What is a Cluster ?  Re: What is a Cluster ?  Re: [OT]Re:Columbia  Re: [OT]Re:Columbia 3 [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number 7 Re: [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:48:34 -0800 - From: dundas@caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III)  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question< Message-ID: <dundas-0502031248340001@dundas-mac.caltech.edu>   Bill,   N In article <b1r40b$15se2i$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu wrote:  G > Can anyone here point me a any published information on the structure $ > an internals for RT-11 and RSTS/E?  J I have the printed V7 internals manual by Mike Mayfield (for which I thinkJ he got $100 at the time!).  I also have the printed versions of the DEC V8H and V9 internals manuals.  You have already looked at the V8 PDF of that manual.   C To the best of my knowledge, DEC never released much on the monitor I internals to the general public.  They didn't _want_ people writing their F own drivers.  That was a source of frustration to me personally at theG time as I wanted to do some driver work.  I ended up writing a KBM that . emulated a Unix shell process under RSTS V7.x.  G The bottom line is, if the internals manuals don't do what you need, it F probably doesn't exist.  I hope I'm wrong.  If so, please let me know.   John   --   John A. Dundas III2 Director, Information Technology Services, Caltech+ Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA  91125-8100 A Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 <mailto:dundas@caltech.edu>    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:29:14 +0100 @ From: Han Pilmeyer <han@DoNOTSPAMMeHere-storage.jgo.cpqcorp.net> Subject: Re: a PDP-11 questionB Message-ID: <isvxsz0l.fsf@DoNOTSPAMMeHere-storage.jgo.cpqcorp.net>  ; >>>>> "John" == John A Dundas, <dundas@caltech.edu> writes:    John> Bill, T John> In article <b1r40b$15se2i$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu wrote:  H >> Can anyone here point me a any published information on the structure% >> an internals for RT-11 and RSTS/E?   M John> The bottom line is, if the internals manuals don't do what you need, it L John> probably doesn't exist.  I hope I'm wrong.  If so, please let me know.  C Starting with the V10 doc set (I think), a manual was included with F the title "RSTS/E V10 Internals and Data Structures Manual". BasicallyB it was an updated version of the same book that circulated for V9.   Cheers.  --  O -- Han Pilmeyer, email: han@zk3.dec.compaq.hp.com                            -- J --	    Hewlett-Packard Company - UNIX Support Engineering Group         --O --         Answers are the easy part, questions raise the doubt   - JB       -- O -- All opinions are those of the author, not of Hewlett-Packard Company!     --    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 01:03:59 GMT 1 From: Ardee & Larry Tenison <ardee.larry@gte.net> E Subject: Re: Alpha workstation floppy drive -- Problem solved, thanks / Message-ID: <BA66F674.18FA%ardee.larry@gte.net>   L Thanks to all of you who posted to this topic.  I have resolved the problem.B It was in fact a loose controller cable; the drive works fine now.   Regards    LT  G in article b153s7$d1b$6@web1.cup.hp.com, Hoff Hoffman at hoff@hp.nospam  wrote on 1/27/03 9:19 PM:    > E > In article <3E3193C2.BB0006F2@clarityconnect.com>, "Mark D. Jilson" $ > <jilly@clarityconnect.com> writes: > H > Re: problems accessing an RX26 floppy disk on AlphaStation 200 series,1 > running OpenVMS Alpha V7.3, unknown ECO status.  >  > :Ardee & Larry Tenison wrote:  > 4 > :> Here are the commands and messages I am seeing: > :>   > :> $show dev/full dva0K > :> (response is the same as shown in response message below, EXCEPT total L > :> blocks was showing 2880 until I tried the INIT command, then it went to
 > :> 1440) > .. > :> $init/dens=hd dva0 temp- > :> %NONAME-F-NOMSG, message number 0075A004 B > :> (appears to be some sort of unexpected initialization error?) > A > That looks more like some form of a fatal OpenVMS system error.  > F > (I'm able to retrieve a rather unexpected LIMITCHANGED error for theB > error code, but that does not immediately look applicable here.) > G > Was this drive originally working and originally configured with this < > system, or is this drive transplanted from another system? > B > INITIALIZE/DENSITY=keyword -- ED: 2.88MB, HD: 1.44MB, DD: 720KB. > D > With a fatal error arising from INITIALIZE, I'd not expect to make > progress further.  > ( > Anything interesting in the error log? > I > The RX26 is often configured as a SCSI device using a SCSI-FDI adapter, H > and these are not usually permitted on multi-host SCSI configurations.@ > (There are a couple of different variants of the RX26 around.) > G > If you were to boot the OpenVMS Alpha distribution kit on the box and G > exit to the $$$ DCL prompt, can you initialize the device from there?  > J > You might get the following command to completely clobber and reload the > ISA configuration: >  >>>> isacfg -init 	 >>>> init  > H > If any of the settings specific to the mouse, keyboard, com ports, theI > parallel port, or the floppy has been altered at any time, this console I > incantation will clobber it and will reset values to the defaults.  The 
 > command: >  >>>> isacfg -all > I > will display the current settings, if you wish to record these.  If you G > see a device field containing 8000000000000000 or 80000000, it is the E > default and need not be recorded.  If the console firmware has been I > shoveled around and has precipitated this problem -- and that is a very J > large "IF" -- this command might clear any dreck in the ISA device data. > G > You will want to ensure you have the most recent SRM firmware loaded, F > OS_TYPE set to VMS, current OpenVMS mandatory ECOs installed, etc... > E > Of course the other question is one of the media -- if the media is F > somehow faulty, you could easily get all manner of drive errors.  InF > other words, try to initialize a known-good and known-new HD floppy.G > (Chasing down bad media bugs is a classic fault isolation pitfall...)  >  > O > ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- F > For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- ? > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:15:31 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: And the winner is? 6 Message-ID: <b1rnso$166taa$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   Alan  J I was even more off than you, but take apparently we were the only ones to expectD such an event to happen OUTSIDE business hours. Come to think of it, rebooting a H (company) VMS system on broad daylight is somewhat indecent, right <g> ?   Hans  7 "Alan Frisbie" <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> schreef in bericht ' news:3E415D89.29A58888@NelsonUSA.com...  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > > C > > I will be announcing all the winners tomorrow.  In case you are I > > wondering we did have a person guess a time of 3:30 (he had submitted H > > the time on Jan 10th).  We had nine people pick the correct day.  OfH > > the nine people 2 were from outside the us (Switzerland and Israel). > H > I thought I was pretty good with a guess that was only five hours off.J > Boy, was I wrong!!!   Here are the winning times from Sue's e-mail (withI > the names removed until they say it's OK).   Note that FOUR people were , > withing ONE HOUR!   Congratulations, guys! >  > TIME   ERROR > 15:30  -0:01 > 15:50  +0:19 > 16:01  +0:30 > 16:12  +0:41 > 11:25  -4:06 > 10:32  -4:59? > 20:37  +5:06    <<< Alan Frisbie, in a dismal 7th place   :-(  >  9:22  -6:09 > 22:22  +6:51 >  > Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:50:03 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: And the winner is? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0402032150040001@user-2ive1c3.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <857e9e41.0302041837.4559f504@posting.google.com>, 2 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote:  E >The winners will be individually contacted via email.  I am planning C >on a golf shirt with their name on it (probably a Greg Norman golf E >shirt because his logo is a shark).  And I think "OpenVMS first Boot ) >1/31/2003" but I am open to suggestions.   H If you put the date on, of course it needs to be 31-Jan-2003.  These are VMS shirts, after all.  7 Or 62-Dec-2002, to agree with the end-of-year deadline.    :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 23:59:29 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: And the winner is? J Message-ID: <Bzh0a.232033$ej1.149776@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C2CD01.426DF900@sulfer.icius.com...E > Now now, John, this is Sue who's organizing this. She's the one who D > actually gives a (ahem) monkeys, remember? She wouldn't do that to us.  >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----* > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + > news:3E40117F.1E0F99A4@vl.videotron.ca...  > > Michael Unger wrote:? > > > An "OpenVMS golf shirt". And apparently the obligation to 
 > participate # > > > in advertising and promotion.  > > ? > > Since advertising and promotion are words never used in the  context  > of VMS, itC > > is a safe bet that HP won't do any advertising and promotion of  this	 > contest  > > because it is VMS related. > = > It probably only says 'OpenVMS' on the tag with the washing E > instructions. That would be in keeping with the ChumPHaq history of  > keeping VMS hidden.     E Sorry. I thought it was a shirt of the type that corporations have in C their purchasable 'promotional' catalog...you know the stuff...golf F balls, coffee cups, umbrellas, etc...with logos on them...in HP's case> it would be with 'Intel Inside' logos on the visible surfaces.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:19:54 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: And the winner is? / Message-ID: <3E41AA27.25EB4E08@vl.videotron.ca>   = > It probably only says 'OpenVMS' on the tag with the washing E > instructions. That would be in keeping with the ChumPHaq history of  > keeping VMS hidden.   J No. True stealth marketing would be underwear  that says "VMS inside" at a strategic location.   E Only the guy wearing the underwear and his wife would know about VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:27:49 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: And the winner is? / Message-ID: <3E41AC01.3351CCB6@vl.videotron.ca>   I Out of curiosityy.  is there some large accounting firm that audited this 	 contest ?   M Has the engineer guilty of booting VMS on IA64 recorded the log from the boot < prompt to the directory command ? Could this log be posted ?  O And how do we know they didn't play with the system clock to falsify the date ?   K Also, what is the official time ? The time the BOOT command was entered, or ' the time the DIR command was entered ?    ! This whole contest was rigged....    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 01:55:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: And the winner is? I Message-ID: <ogj0a.280064$pDv.92659@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C2CD01.426DF900@sulfer.icius.com...E > Now now, John, this is Sue who's organizing this. She's the one who D > actually gives a (ahem) monkeys, remember? She wouldn't do that to us.  >     > Of course Sue would do her best to make sure that the prize is suitable adorned.   F Maybe she could also get a whole bunch of shirts made up that we couldE all order, either identical to the winner's shirt but all in a single  different color.  F Better yet, some shirts made up with OpenVMS logo's that, on the front say:  F  "If we told you which operating system the three-letter agencies use, we'd have to kill you."    on the back they could say: 2 "HP - saving your life through lack of marketing."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:01:33 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: And the winner is? 6 Message-ID: <00A1B0C9.150DFC59@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <ogj0a.280064$pDv.92659@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > 2 >"Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message+ >news:01C2CD01.426DF900@sulfer.icius.com... F >> Now now, John, this is Sue who's organizing this. She's the one whoE >> actually gives a (ahem) monkeys, remember? She wouldn't do that to  >us. >> >  > ? >Of course Sue would do her best to make sure that the prize is  >suitable adorned. > G >Maybe she could also get a whole bunch of shirts made up that we could F >all order, either identical to the winner's shirt but all in a single >different color.  > G >Better yet, some shirts made up with OpenVMS logo's that, on the front  >say:  > G > "If we told you which operating system the three-letter agencies use,  >we'd have to kill you." >  >on the back they could say:3 >"HP - saving your life through lack of marketing."    I'd wear that.  , You might want to investigate cafepress.com.   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 04:56:41 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: And the winner is? K Message-ID: <dWl0a.571618$F2h1.402070@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ' ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" 1 <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote in message 0 news:00A1B0C9.150DFC59@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... > In articleD <ogj0a.280064$pDv.92659@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > 4 > >"Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message- > >news:01C2CD01.426DF900@sulfer.icius.com... D > >> Now now, John, this is Sue who's organizing this. She's the one who D > >> actually gives a (ahem) monkeys, remember? She wouldn't do that to > >us. > >> > >  > > A > >Of course Sue would do her best to make sure that the prize is  > >suitable adorned. > > C > >Maybe she could also get a whole bunch of shirts made up that we  could A > >all order, either identical to the winner's shirt but all in a  single > >different color.  > > C > >Better yet, some shirts made up with OpenVMS logo's that, on the  front  > >say:  > > D > > "If we told you which operating system the three-letter agencies use, > >we'd have to kill you." > >  > >on the back they could say:5 > >"HP - saving your life through lack of marketing."  >  > I'd wear that. > . > You might want to investigate cafepress.com.    6 Cafepress seems to have an interesting business model.  > I note that their policy on intellectual property rights wouldF preclude such creative golf/T-shirt wizardry as contemplated. But thenA again, there's nothing intellectual going on at HP vis. marketing  OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:06:45 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Batch job log spec ' Message-ID: <3E41DF55.981E4611@fsi.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > [snip]B > And I tested further.  My recollection was that you couldn't use> > F$EXTRACT to obtains substrings from within a >256 characterG > DCL symbol.  But it appears that you can now (OpenVMS 7.2-1 on Alpha)   G The limit actually seems to be 510 bytes as far back as V6.2, AFAIK. At E that length, you can still use lexicals, though SHOW SYMBOL and WRITE  without /SYMBOL may complain.   G > So there are no obvious problems with the parsing process for current  > releases of VMS anyway.  --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 15:13:53 -0600 4 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <bJG+mNr+q7zb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0302050711.7d39f597@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: [reply deleted]   B Thanks for the reply, Alan.  It seems we are in violent agreement:F my idea may not have been a particularly good one, Mr. Fine's may onlyH be marginally better, and there are a most likely a number of people outE there who can benefit from your admonition concerning the pitfalls of E trying to reason about these things without the requisite background.   E Meanwhile our resident attack dog (not you) seems to be a bit quieter H given that that hunk of flesh he thought he had torn off is beginning to taste a little bit like crow..   --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org 0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:04:54 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Columbia , Message-ID: <3E417C76.1030802@tsoft-inc.com>  ? > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  >  > J >>   Nope.  I've never, ever seen a pilot perform a pre-landing inspectionF >>   outside the aircraft prior to landing.  The pre-flight inspectionI >>   I learned and have done is pre-FLIGHT, once I'm up I will come down.     Q Bob.  At times I've noticed a 'superior than thou' attitude in your posts.  (I'd  4 use the word asshole, but I'm practicing tolerance.)  M Might it be possible to consider the 'flight' from ground to orbit as having  N arrived at a destination?  I might observe that once in orbit the engines are Q shut down.  Could this indicate the end of a 'flight'?  And then the return from  ! orbit to ground another 'flight'?   M Now, if a pilot was to fly from point 'A' to point 'B', he'd do a pre-flight  P before departing point 'A'.  When ready to depart point 'B' to go back to point F 'A', after 2 weeks, another inspection (pre-flight) might be in order.    M In any case, the landing wasn't the problem, it was the flight to the landing  that was the problem.     K As for "once I'm up I will come down", the shuttle seems to have made that   statement obsolete.    Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 22:26:27 -0600 4 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <DfnNHp3h1W2T@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <b096a4ee.0302030740.5acc39a3@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:q > cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) wrote in message news:<9eMZbWLEBPPK@eisner.encompasserve.org>... K >> I thought about that as well and almost included it in my post about the H >> impulse required for an orbital change but wasn't sure it would work,H >> especially since I initially only thought of effecting the change viaH >> a downward thrust to force the path down towards earth and thus raiseF >> it at some later point in the orbit.  Making the change by applyingK >> forward thrust may work better - after all, applying force perpendicular H >> to the motion vector adds no net orbital energy but instead puts 100%K >> of its energy into making gas molecules fly at high speed through space.  > H > A downward thrust would be a bad idea. You'd probably gain very little  C Let me get this straight.  I posted that I had shown some restraint C in not posting an idea similar to Mr. Fine's because I decided that E I had not thought it through, and you're going to take me to task for  even having had the idea?   H > Moving around in space requires careful planning, calculation, and, ofG > course, timing. It's not like in Star Wars where the spacecraft [...]   A Spare me the lecture.  I first learned the basic idea of equating = G M m / r^2 to m v^2 / r nearly 40 years ago to determine the 8 parameters of a circular orbit and have a few courses in< classical mechanics and differential equations under my belt; since then.  I can assure you I don't have a Star Wars view  of orbital mechanics.   D > AFAIK, all delta-v's are done thrusting in the forward or backward= > direction which I think is the most efficient way to do it.   @ Except, as I mentioned in my post giving an equation for impulse> required for an orbit correction, if you want to change courseB without a corresponding change in speed.  That's what acceleration% perpendicular to motion is all about.   H > Space travel is extremely dangerous, difficult, and expensive. Hazards  ? We're all aware of the dangers of space flight. That's why this < thread exists.  Some of us are aware that it takes a certain: degree of sophistication to analyze orbital maneuvers.  My: experience with c.o.vms is that there are people here with< the requisite level of understanding, but clearly most of us= are just interested parties willing to allow others to do the 
 calculations.   C > abound. Radiation, vacuum, space junk, the need for complete life F > support, orbital speed of approx. 18000 miles per hour (5 mi./sec.),H > space junk in orbit, meteoroids, the dangers of launch, the dangers ofH > reentry, the chances of explosions (remember Appolo 13), .... It is toC > NASA's credit that there haven't been even more disasters. And we D > still don't know the cause of this disaster. Maybe the shuttle ranD > into a piece of space junk. Maybe it was the foam that fell off atH > launch time. Maybe not. Maybe something entirely else. We'll just have4 > to wait and see and hope the puzzle can be solved.  8 May I suggest that when that mental swamp you seem to be; mired in is drained and all those alligators have slithered 8 away you might be in a better position to understand the> terrain.  The two-body problem has been solved for two hundred= years or more.  It's just a matter of plugging in the numbers 7 in order to determine the shape of the orbit.  Position ? versus time is more complex, but, first, we don't need it here, = and, second, it is easily calculated by numerical integration 1 or through the use of elliptic sines and cosines.   = I think Mr. Fine's approach is quite intriguing. It is a fact C that no net energy is involved in a change of orbital inclination.  > It's just that you need to change the direction of the angular< momentum vector, and without something to push against, that8 involves expelling a propellant through a rocket nozzle.8 His approach is to apply force when the radius vector is5 large so that the torque and therefore the net change 8 in angular momentum is correspondingly increased.  Now I: believe Bob Koehler when he states that the shuttle cannot= make a significant change in orbital inclination, but I would ? also like to understand the issues associated with the proposed < maneuver if only to improve my knowledge of the physics that is involved.  ? Oh, and you mentioned downward thrust and issues with regard to A premature reentry.  Of course.  But first it would be interesting A to know if the maneuver is if any value from an orbital mechanics @ point of view.  If you need to put the shuttle in a higher orbit= to begin with in order to give yourself more options later on B should a problem arise, I assume it is just a matter of tradeoffs:< where do you want to spend your money and your fuel budgets?   --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org 0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:50:30 -0600 4 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <6BsMxrv7PCXa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G [repost - corrected to remove my reference to an unrelated third party]   n In article <b096a4ee.0302050711.7d39f597@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: [reply deleted]   B Thanks for the reply, Alan.  It seems we are in violent agreement:F my idea may not have been a particularly good one, Mr. Fine's may onlyH be marginally better, and there are a most likely a number of people outE there who can benefit from your admonition concerning the pitfalls of E trying to reason about these things without the requisite background.    --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org 0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:51:49 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: Could IBM Be the Next Computer Chip King?/ Message-ID: <v412if272uohe2@corp.supernews.com>    Bob Marcan wrote:  > Greg Cagle wrote:  >  >> David Froble wrote: >> >>> E >>> Rather interesting claim.  Anyone have any idea who, besides HP,  H >>> really has to use the beast?  How many of those 7 OSs are some form I >>> of Unix?   From my limited sight, I can see windoze, Unix, and VMS.   B >>> Aside from VMS, how many of the others will NOT run on Hammer? >> >> >>0 >> HP-UX for one, and I imagine NSK for another. >>< >> As for what the 7 are, I can only identify five distincet >> OSes from Intel's website:  >>
 >> WindowsJ >> six varieties of Linux (RH, Caldera, MSC, SUSE, TurboLinux, and United 	 >> Linux)  >> HP-UX >> NSK >> VMS >> > = > Come on, Linux is Linux. Distributions differ in bloatware.   ? Which would explain why I said *five* distinct OSes, not *ten*.    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 01:06:22 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG# Subject: Re: CTERM weirdness on VAX 0 Message-ID: <00A1B011.5F44019B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20030204143843.01c76e48@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:H >Been converting my home network over to 100baseT from 10baseT.  At thisE >point, I have my PC, laptop and one AS200 4/233 on 100baseT.  I have B >an AS200 4/166 and VAXstation 4000 model 60 on 10baseT.  They allG >plug into the same 10/100 Linksys switch (note: switch, not hub).  The E >2 alphas and the VAX are clustered together (they're all running VMS  >7.3). > D >On all systems, all is OK for doing IP protocols.  For the cluster,F >all traffic such as SCS, MSCP, that sort of thing, is fine.  However,G >on just the VAX, CTERM traffic (via SET HOST) is pretty much unusable. H >It can take several seconds for characters to be echoed, and eventually >the sessions just drop. > H >I'm guessing this is just a timing problem with CTERM traffic, and it'sG >something I have to live with, as it's going into the switch as 10mbps A >and is coming out as 100mbps.  The weird thing is that this same H >scenario on the Alpha that only has a 10mbps interface works just fine. >  >Any ideas?   4 Shitcan the Linksys if it's one of the BEFSR* units.  G I run 100bT through a DECswitch 90 without issue.  I have a BEFSR41 for G connecting to a cable modem service (for backup and testing and so the  G kiddies can keep that evil PoS PeeCee of of my T1) and it's quite a bit  of crap.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:15:29 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)# Subject: Re: CTERM weirdness on VAX L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0402032115300001@user-2ive1c3.dialup.mindspring.com>  F In article <5.1.0.14.2.20030204143843.01c76e48@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan" O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:  H >Been converting my home network over to 100baseT from 10baseT.  At thisE >point, I have my PC, laptop and one AS200 4/233 on 100baseT.  I have B >an AS200 4/166 and VAXstation 4000 model 60 on 10baseT.  They allG >plug into the same 10/100 Linksys switch (note: switch, not hub).  The E >2 alphas and the VAX are clustered together (they're all running VMS  >7.3). > D >On all systems, all is OK for doing IP protocols.  For the cluster,F >all traffic such as SCS, MSCP, that sort of thing, is fine.  However,G >on just the VAX, CTERM traffic (via SET HOST) is pretty much unusable. H >It can take several seconds for characters to be echoed, and eventually >the sessions just drop.  I This sounds like what happens when there is a speed mismatch somewhere in < the network.  I suspect you have a network segment where theI (auto)negotiation of the speed didn't work.  This can seem operational if H the load is light, but gets  very bad as the load increases.  I've neverE been impressed with the negotiation capabilities of switches.  Try to H disable the autonegotiation and set the speed to what you know it should be.   I DECnet tends to back off for several seconds in certain error conditions, 9 so CTERM is one of the first places you notice a symptom.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 13:54:55 -0800 + From: c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) ' Subject: DCL scripting for mail changes = Message-ID: <f7a73cb1.0302051354.58ec6cf5@posting.google.com>   E I need to script a massive change to some (100 users) out of 300 mail 7 users. The accts are set to forward to an SMTP address. C So I have dumped show forward/user=* to a file,made all the changes 	 required. C Now my question is how do I envoke the mail utility in my script so D that I can run it from the script rather than enter it line by line? example  100 lines of1 set forward/user=blahblah smtp%"""blah@blah.com"" 3 set forward/user=hehehehe smtp%"""hehehe@blah.com""   A Can I put a mail at the beginning and an end at the bottom of theeD script or can do I just replace set with "mail set" in my script and? then I should be able to run it? Do I need an ending quailfier?i' Please reply to c00per11242001@yahoo.cai   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 23:52:47 GMTn9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> + Subject: Re: DCL scripting for mail changesa? Message-ID: <e4663dc04b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>C  < In message <f7a73cb1.0302051354.58ec6cf5@posting.google.com>6           c00per11242001@yahoo.ca (Vic Mendham) wrote:  G > I need to script a massive change to some (100 users) out of 300 mail 9 > users. The accts are set to forward to an SMTP address.rE > So I have dumped show forward/user=* to a file,made all the changesM > required.dE > Now my question is how do I envoke the mail utility in my script so?F > that I can run it from the script rather than enter it line by line?	 > examplek > 100 lines of3 > set forward/user=blahblah smtp%"""blah@blah.com""t5 > set forward/user=hehehehe smtp%"""hehehe@blah.com""V > C > Can I put a mail at the beginning and an end at the bottom of thenF > script or can do I just replace set with "mail set" in my script andA > then I should be able to run it? Do I need an ending quailfier?t) > Please reply to c00per11242001@yahoo.can  & I'm pretty certain it works as follows   $  mail 4    set forward/user=blahblah smtp%"""blah@blah.com""6    set forward/user=hehehehe smtp%"""hehehe@blah.com""    <etc>   exit $ exit  I The first exit is in fact redundant - it causes MAIL to exit. The second,nH which exits the script, will also exit mail in this case, because a lineH starting with $ will exit an image (always, I think, but I prefer not to rely on it).  I (I suspect the triple " should be double ", but I am not in a position ton4 test it, not having a running VMS system available.)   -- p
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 16:24:31 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?o, Message-ID: <3E41810F.4070202@tsoft-inc.com>   Jo Jo Potato wrote:s  C > "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in messagee1 > news:4FEB03.18524666@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...o > ? >>I hope this doesn't mean E*Trade is trading in VMS for linux.  >> > = > Boy, you guys love to speculate based on the smallest clue,e> > but in this case you are (mostly) right.  There is a project< > underway to "get off VMS".  What the target system(s) will> > likely be is Linux for the application(s) and Solaris/Sybase > for the databases. > @ > Why is E*Trade doing this? Lots of reasons, not all good ones.     Usually how things go.    F > 1) Because of cost cutting, the main cluster isn't disaster tolerant3 > anymore anyway so that advantage for VMS is gone..    I Regardless, I wouldn't think they will do any better, and possibly worse.s  ; > 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard toi? > maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become? > very difficult.t    H Fixable.  Plenty of BASIC programmers.  But most likely not plenty with  knowledge of the application.e  5 > 3) The VMS programmers (and their managers) are seth9 > in their ways and unwilling (unable?) to rework the VMSe > code to make it maintainable.r    P Gee, hasn't anybody asked them when they were going to polish up their resumes? .   They must have some great golden parachutes.  8 > 4) The VMS application build process is at best poorly< > documented and not repeatable.  The code library is a mess > and... (see number 3).    	 Same fix..  8 > 5) VMS is perceived as expensive,  and the third party; > products maintenance is expensive. BEA tuxedo maintenance 7 > for VMS last year was more than $1 million.  Contrasts7 > this to the conversion of the web servers from Sun to  > Linux that saved tons of $. 9 > 6) The CIO got snubbed by HP during the merger.  He was:2 > previously enjoying being on the Compaq customer3 > somethingorother advisory board and getting to goa- > to Houston and play golf and eat fine mealsc    O Another big ego.  Wonder who he has picked out to blame when problems occur in t. the conversion and running of the new systems.  < > 7) HPQ has been completely unresponsive as far as avoiding= > this outcome.  This despite my entreaties to local/regionalf; > HPQ folks that this could be avoided with some high leveln > HPQ contacts into E*Trade.    Q Richard Marcello in the past would do such.  It seemed that he considered is one aG of the prime parts of his job.  Maybe the wrong people were approached?   A > 8) IBM has got their foot in the door with the Linux boxes, andI8 > I fully expect more of their products to show up, DB2?  O I'd probably consider similar moves if the technical staff was following their eL egos by at least 100 ft or such, and the vendor was unresponsive.  Both are : fixable, wonder if anyone wants the situation to be fixed.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 16:29 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?-, Message-ID: <5FEB200316294475@gerg.tamu.edu>  - "Jo Jo Potato" <vmsforme@yahoo.com> writes...-: }2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard to> }maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become }very difficult.4 }3) The VMS programmers (and their managers) are set8 }in their ways and unwilling (unable?) to rework the VMS }code to make it maintainable.7 }4) The VMS application build process is at best poorlyn; }documented and not repeatable.  The code library is a mess  }and... (see number 3).e  C Sounds like the real solution is to fire the programmers (and theirMC manager) for not doing their jobs and hire new ones (there are someDD people who participate in this newsgroup who might be ineterested in new jobs like this).   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 15:21:52 -0800t1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)># Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? < Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302051521.7522880@posting.google.com>  p "Jo Jo Potato" <vmsforme@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<u8a0a.422$Gs7.37060642@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>.../ > There is a project underway to "get off VMS".n  E To place this into perspective, the belief that E*Trade would be "off>E of VMS soon" was a fondly-held corporate myth for the majority of thehE time I was there.  Most of the time the stated timeframe was 6 monthsI7 out, occasionally 9 months, and once in a great while arE ridiculously-optimistic 3 months, but always in the future.  And oddseB are good it will _always_ be in the future.  At one point a new VPD came in, took a good look around and estimated at least 18-24 months? -- that worried me because that was the first halfway-realisticBE estimate I had heard, which indicated she might have a clue.  But she  didn't last long.r  F The downside of the "off of VMS in 6 months" myth is that this mindsetD diverts resources away from the VMS environment, because it is going= away in 6 months, after all, so why spend any money or do anyuC improvements?  Then when the new venture fails (after wasting largeuC amounts of money and time), you have to go back and fix the systems  the business still depends on.    > What the target system(s) will> > likely be is Linux for the application(s) and Solaris/Sybase > for the databases.  F Having looked at Linux in depth recently, I'm convinced it's not readyD for mission-critical back-end jobs like this.  The high-availabilityC clustering, while promising, isn't standardized yet.  And the basici( maturity/stability just isn't there yet.  A And Sybase on Solaris without even clustering, much less disastera tolerance?  Give me a break.  E The least-risky path away from RMS toward a relational database wouldeE be to Oracle Rdb on VMS Clusters as a first step.  If that works out,nE maybe next to Oracle Server on VMS Clusters.  Then maybe to Oracle ona' TruClusters (once that's within HP-UX).-  @ > Why is E*Trade doing this? Lots of reasons, not all good ones. > F > 1) Because of cost cutting, the main cluster isn't disaster tolerant3 > anymore anyway so that advantage for VMS is gone.   C The cluster is divided in half, with storage in each half shadowed,tD physically located some distance apart but in separate halves of the@ same building, although it does have a firewall in between, withC separate power/UPS/AC for each half of the building.  Sure, they'reiF not protected against a tornado that destroys the entire building, but@ they do reap many of the benefits of a disaster-tolerant clusterE configuration.  And moving half of the cluster to a second site, oncep! chosen, would be relatively easy.-  ; > 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard to ? > maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become  > very difficult.-  ? As in any business where IT is mission-critical, making changesnD without causing problems is difficult, regardless of what the source language or age of the code.  F And just because something is written in C or C++ doesn't mean it will be maintainable.  5 > 3) The VMS programmers (and their managers) are sets9 > in their ways and unwilling (unable?) to rework the VMSy > code to make it maintainable.t  D When any change presents a risk to operation of and even survival ofE the business, some caution is warranted.  It may not be stubbornness.n  8 > 4) The VMS application build process is at best poorly< > documented and not repeatable.  The code library is a mess > and... (see number 3).  1 Hadn't heard about any difficulties in this area.n  $ > 5) VMS is perceived as expensive,   C Things have changed.  VMS expertise is readily available in today's D marketplace at reasonable prices.  There is no shortage of VMS (even$ BASIC specifically) expertise today.  B And VMS will be available soon on Itanium-based hardware, the same0 hardware that will run Linux, Windows, or HP-UX.   > and the third partyo; > products maintenance is expensive. BEA tuxedo maintenance57 > for VMS last year was more than $1 million.  Contrast67 > this to the conversion of the web servers from Sun toa > Linux that saved tons of $.2  D Funny.  Tuxedo was brought in as middleware because it was seen as aD way to more-easily divert data requests to Unix back-ends instead ofD the VMS back-end, with the goal of moving all data off of VMS in theE end.  In practice, Tuxedo on Unix proved so error-prone as to requireaE constant human attention and intervention.  Tuxedo software was addedtC on VMS to complete the integration only very late in the game.  RTRd> would have been a far-better piece of middleware to use, as it> supports multiple platforms, understands clusters and disasterC tolerance, and comes free on VMS.  And I hear SpiritSoft middleware " may be replacing Tux there anyway.  E Throwing out expensive Sun web servers for Linux on Intel (in an areaMD of the business where cheap boxes that break with high failure ratesB can readily be covered by having large numbers of identical boxes)F worked out well.  Trying to replace back-end systems which contain the; only copy of data with Unix boxes is a whole 'nother story.6  9 > 6) The CIO got snubbed by HP during the merger.  He wast2 > previously enjoying being on the Compaq customer3 > somethingorother advisory board and getting to gow- > to Houston and play golf and eat fine mealsu  = I'm sorry the CIO didn't get the attention he needed from HP.s  < > 7) HPQ has been completely unresponsive as far as avoiding= > this outcome.  This despite my entreaties to local/regionall; > HPQ folks that this could be avoided with some high level. > HPQ contacts into E*Trade.  5 I'm sorry you didn't get the help you needed from HP.l  A > 8) IBM has got their foot in the door with the Linux boxes, andi8 > I fully expect more of their products to show up, DB2?    I understand what you're saying.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:13:44 GMToL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?h6 Message-ID: <00A1AFF0.DA5A9293@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  l In article <4FEB03.18524666@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes: >After reading:  >a? >  http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,57503,00.htmlc >e9 >titled "Banks Want to Swim With Penguin" I noticed this:  >wB >   "Financial industry heavyweights such as Merrill Lynch, MorganH >   Stanley, Credit Suisse First Boston, Goldman Sachs Group and E-TradeA >   have all announced major Linux deployments in recent months."n > > >I hope this doesn't mean E*Trade is trading in VMS for linux.  J Without much in the way of inside knowledge, I'd strongly suspect that if 3 E*Trade is trading anything in for Linux, it's Sun.    -- Alan   O ===============================================================================t0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056-M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025lO ===============================================================================v   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:52:53 GMT- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)n# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?r& Message-ID: <H9tps5.14A@world.std.com>  T In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D2F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,& Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:  D I'm always surprised by the fact that there are still people in thisI industry who take what's written in trade rags and press releases at facenI value.  Geez, I'd figured people in c.o.v have been around long enough to-J be taken by this sort of stuff.  Even when reading between the lines, it'sF still nearly impossible to extract any useful, objective, information.  < > For a more realistic view of where Linux is at, check out:J > http://www.techrepublic.com/article_guest.jhtml?id=r00520021202ggg01.htm	 > &page=1 H > ""The cost of acquisition of software, hardware-all the things you buyJ > up front-that's a minority element of the total cost of ownership of anyC > operating system," he said. "Whether you pay $2,000 for a WindowsbE > license or $49.95 for a boxed copy of Linux, over the course of itsp- > lifetime, that ends up being a minor cost."t > J > Gillen pointed out that $2,000 divided over five years is $400. "What isG > the cost for a technical support professional per hour to be there ony: > staff? Probably a couple of hundred dollars," he noted."  G This actually works in Linux's favor in the Windows vs. Linux scenario,iH simply because it requires a lot more technical support professionals toA support Windows systems than it does Linux or Unix systems.  (AndUE likewise, I gather it takes even fewer VMS admins).   I've seen this,sH firsthand, at all the places I've worked over the past couple of years, D in a wide variety of industries: product design & manufacturing, two= different motion picture studios, and a real-estate dotcom.  s  G Where I work, we've several thousand procs in our primarily Linux basedwJ renderfarm through which many terabytes of data are processed on any givenG day.  There's absolutely no way we'd be able to manage supporting those I same systems if they were Windows based.  If a configuration change needsiH to be pushed out to those several thousand systems, I can do it remotelyE from home while laying in bed using my trusty VT320 and a few simple,b scriptable, Unix facilities.  I There are things that I don't necessarily like about Linux, but, as a lowhG end server and processing workhorse, it gets the job done.  In fact, itlG gets the job done surprisingly well.  AND it gets the job done /better/lH and /less expensively/ than Microsoft's alternatives, given the same set of dirt cheap hardware.   G For high-end servers, I don't think Linux is quite there yet.  A lot of=I people push that idea; personally, my comfort level is much lower with it@I in that environment.  Though, truthfully, my concerns are less with LinuxSE itself and more with the underlying hardware.  There just aren't manyaD high-end, high-quality, server platforms out there on which you can  run Linux.    ) > Also, Linux has its challenges as well:-: > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963447.html?tag=fd_nbs_entF > Here is something from this article that I am sure will make Bankers: > with mission critical applications feel warm and cozy .. > G > "Linux programmers tend to be more free-form, with enough programmers.C > trying things out so that eventually someone comes upon the rightCI > approach. "If you have enough people going out and trying it, it's like.I > this blind hen approach to finding food, sometimes you just get lucky," ' > he said. "There is no grand scheme." e  F I think that's a rather weak generalization.  I say that because thereB really aren't a separate group of programmers you can label "LinuxE programmers".  They're all "Unix programmers", many of which are very H competent.  When I worked at DreamWorks Animation, Stan Lippman was justE down the hall from me, working as a "Linux programmer", designing andu writing applications.h  : > Yep, I feel real safe with my large money transfers now.  F I must say, it's pretty amusing to see someone from HP slighting LinuxI like you are.  A few years ago, when I was still at DreamWorks, I seem to I recall HP being /very much/ in favor of the notion of us running Linux on,I hundreds of their HP Visualize workstations.  Then again, I guess this is-F to be expected-- the vendor will tell you anything, as long as the end# result is that you give them money.e  H I'll be sure to keep your opinions in the back of my mind as we considerH an equipment vendor to provide the systems we need to double the size of( our renderfarm over the next few months.   > :-)u   :-D    -brian.e -- tF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943:   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:58:48 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@HP.com> # Subject: RE: E*trade replacing VMS?nT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D38@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 G'day Rob,  ) Yep, to disagree occasionally is good.=20M   :-)   E Re: Linux .. I definitely agree that it will have a place, so I guess2G the only disagreement we have is how far and how fast it will catch on.   C There is a philosophy floating around (I think Lou Gerstner started H something similar, but not sure) that all new technology tends to follow the same trends.  6 Phase 0 - early adopters, pockets of "way cool stuff".C Phase 1 - many more adopters jump on the bandwagon as it is seen as D "much better" than current technology in place doing similar things.H (read Microsoft today, years ago WinNT made inroads the same way because IBM was the bad guy)F Phase 2 - crash. More realistic experiences discover that the grass isG not all that much greener on the other side. This new technology is nowi/ seen as bad and vendor hype to sell technology.lA Phase 3 - technology re-emerges with a much more realistic set ofeD expectations. Technology is seen as having a place, but adopters now' realize it will not solve world hunger.e  G This is what Gerstner essentially stated happened with eBusiness, and IsF would now argue has happened to B2B, AI and some might argue, with Web Services.=20  D I would suggest Linux is just now reaching the crest of phase 1. TheB more realistic views are already starting to appear. Check out theF following: (and this is one of the rare occasions when I have to agree with a Gartner analyst)   8 http://www.sys-con.com/linux/articlenews.cfm?id=3D477=20% "Gartner Takes Linux Down a Few Pegs" B "Gartner, the highly influential research house, has abandoned itsH one-size-fits-all analysis of Linux for a more granular appraisal of the> upstart operating system. Bottom line, it says, Linux is not a) universally satisfying solution just yet.   F Gartner analyst George Weiss says he has come to realize that Linux isC "a set of technologies with varying degrees of maturity and various D applications" - not, as the popular view has it, a "single pervasiveD technology" - "major fallacy" that, he says - and the fact that it's? good in one application is no guarantee that it'll work as wellb elsewhere. "   And another:G http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030124S0013/1 (albeit he is aeG traditional Windows watcher, but he makes some good points. What scares @ me are the security patches that both Linux and Windows have out currently.)'  A >>> 	Unilever will probably cookie cutter with 4 and 8 way boxes.  Maybel= 	less boxes than 2 years ago, but still a number of boxes per 
 project.<<  G Actually, while I have no doubt some groups within Unilever are lookingiE at Linux, check out what their corporate folks are doing with the biglH $'s: Its why I stated earlier the big guns are doing IT Consolidation in a big way -=20  ? http://www.unilever.com/news/pressreleases/englishnews_1209.asp D "Unilever has reached a global agreement with Compaq and IBM for theE supply and service of all its back office computing requirements. ThemB deal -- expected to save Unilever more than Euros 25m per annum --D significantly simplifies the existing systems and will enable faster- adoption of global e-commerce opportunities."@  C "Unilever has been consolidating its global IT services since 1997,KF focusing down from more than 300 locations to just four InfrastructureD Management Centres (IMCs) located in Singapore, Sao Paulo, Trumbull, USA, and Port Sunlight, UK. "u  C This was all about very big boxes in centralized environments - not ! racks and racks of small servers.   3 Anyway, in closing, my favourite quote of the week: E "It's interesting to watch as new users of Linux, including reps fromrF Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, and VeriSign, are trotted out to explainD how great Linux is to people who have probably spent the last decade elbow deep in kernel code.=20g  D "It's like watching a baby discover its toes," said New Jersey coderD Nick Nardine. "Not only does the baby think its toes are the coolestH thing in the world, it insists you must discover your toes too. WatchingH these guys push Linux on us is endearing and annoying at the same time."     :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesu Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)e OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMs       -----Original Message-----5 From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]=20a Sent: February 5, 2003 9:30 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi# Subject: RE: E*trade replacing VMS?o    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D31@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>+ , "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:n   >=20F > Take away the cost of the OS and the "depends on who you talk to"=20H > staff costs and what are you left with? Oracle, SAP, PeopleSoft etc=20/ > costs are the same, so what has changed?=3D20n >=20  < 	Kerry.. you know I agree with a lot of what you say.  So to disagreeC 	is good, that shows folks we aren't posting under two different=20  	names :-).r  ? 	What has changed is Linux is running on industry standard kit.r@ 	4-way Xeon boxes.  We could be boring and trot out Dell prices,? 	but if you have an infrastructure of 200, 400 ... 1000 serversi> 	worldwide there is considerable savings there.  Savings on OS	 for sure.h  ; 	I think HP is on the right track by zeroing in on Itanium. < 	Eventually, they will hit Xeon prices and Scott Stallard is@ 	not joshing when mentioning 400-500 million in R&D savings (see 	Fortune link).,  J > Can use lots of cheap boxes? Sure, until one realizes that one of the=20> > biggest projects in almost all companies these days is IT=20 > Consolidation E > - and that includes many companies looking to consolidate their web3; > servers and similar type applications. And when you do ITn Consolidation,E > what do you do ? Put in big boxes or clusters of big boxes that cantF > scale and are much more highly available than many little standalone
 > servers.  ? 	You say that and I know it is happening somewhere.  I'm seeing < 	the opposite.  I see projects and each project has a number? 	of servers involved.  Sure the server counts have slowed down.r Sort/ 	of like half the rabbits are on birth control.u  = 	Unilever will probably cookie cutter with 4 and 8 way boxes.w Maybep= 	less boxes than 2 years ago, but still a number of boxes pers project.  I > Yes, Linux will definitely improve, and that is great. However, does=20P: > one think that other OS's are also not going to improve?  @ 	Yes, but they won't be free and more importantly, they won't beA 	tier 1 development platforms.  Linux will be tier one across the > 	board some day soon.  IBM will make sure that happens as they 	Linuxize all their OSes.d   >=20% > The bar is constantly being raised.s >=20  > 	I agree somewhat.  I'd say the river is rising and the higher> 	ground is getting smaller and smaller.  Rock solid clustering? 	in Linux (when it shows up - not if) will show signs the leveef 	is about to break.v   				Roba   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:00:17 -0800n( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?a= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302051900.5b152afa@posting.google.com>i  p "Jo Jo Potato" <vmsforme@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<u8a0a.422$Gs7.37060642@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>... > @ > Why is E*Trade doing this? Lots of reasons, not all good ones.   stupidity for starters ...  F > 1) Because of cost cutting, the main cluster isn't disaster tolerant3 > anymore anyway so that advantage for VMS is gone.m  ? more stupidity that could ruin a business quick, remember 9/11?t  ; > 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard too? > maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become  > very difficult.f  = the rewrite it ... synergy DIBOL would be excellent esp. with < its gui capabilities ... plus maybe new programmers who know how to code?  5 > 3) The VMS programmers (and their managers) are setM9 > in their ways and unwilling (unable?) to rework the VMS  > code to make it maintainable.   ; then they should be replaced with people who know what theyR
 are doing ...e  8 > 4) The VMS application build process is at best poorly< > documented and not repeatable.  The code library is a mess > and... (see number 3).   easily rectified ...  8 > 5) VMS is perceived as expensive,  and the third party; > products maintenance is expensive. BEA tuxedo maintenance 7 > for VMS last year was more than $1 million.  Contrastb7 > this to the conversion of the web servers from Sun toi > Linux that saved tons of $.o  = you get what you pay for ... how much is security/reliability < uptime worth?  RTR is free w/VMS and would work much better!  9 > 6) The CIO got snubbed by HP during the merger.  He wase2 > previously enjoying being on the Compaq customer3 > somethingorother advisory board and getting to go - > to Houston and play golf and eat fine meals   ; poor baby ... wait till his first crash/hack and he will be> eating with food stamps ...h  < > 7) HPQ has been completely unresponsive as far as avoiding= > this outcome.  This despite my entreaties to local/regional>; > HPQ folks that this could be avoided with some high level  > HPQ contacts into E*Trade.   richard.marcello@hp.comt  A > 8) IBM has got their foot in the door with the Linux boxes, and?8 > I fully expect more of their products to show up, DB2?  0 talk about convuluted, IBM is a master at it ...   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 21:14:15 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?e3 Message-ID: <Yc1VCRZIj7bf@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  p In article <cf15391e.0302051521.7522880@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:  < >> 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard to@ >> maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become >> very difficult. > A > As in any business where IT is mission-critical, making changes0F > without causing problems is difficult, regardless of what the source > language or age of the code. > H > And just because something is written in C or C++ doesn't mean it will > be maintainable.  ? The fact that something will not be written in Basic should notv3 automatically mean it will be written in C or C++..    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:14:47 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n# Subject: RE: E*trade replacing VMS? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEOBGIAA.tom@kednos.com>t   >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]7+ >Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:14 PMg >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? >t >r> >In article <cf15391e.0302051521.7522880@posting.google.com>, 4 >keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes: >v= >>> 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard tosA >>> maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become  >>> very difficult.n >> sB >> As in any business where IT is mission-critical, making changesG >> without causing problems is difficult, regardless of what the source  >> language or age of the code.y >> aI >> And just because something is written in C or C++ doesn't mean it will  >> be maintainable.F > @ >The fact that something will not be written in Basic should not4 >automatically mean it will be written in C or C++..    D In fact, if you plan to maintain the code choosing a strongly-typed,F block structured language is probably a good idea.  I guess this rules out C and C++.     >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >0 ---r& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:10:24 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e# Subject: RE: E*trade replacing VMS?1T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D39@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  4 >>> I think that's a rather weak generalization. <<<  - The quote was from Linus Torvalds. Reference: : http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963447.html?tag=3Dfd_nbs_ent  D >>> I must say, it's pretty amusing to see someone from HP slighting Linux like you are.<<<   You agreed with me.=20  - Like I said, Linux definitely has a place.=20S  G What I object to are folks who get caught up in industry hype and thinkfF that UNIX/ LINUX/ Windows/ whatever single OS is the only solution for@ all requirements that everyone should run for every solution.=20  E Is Linux a good solution for rendering? I have no idea. You have morem< experience in that area, so I will take your word for it.=20  E And as for Linux at the high end, you agreed with me, so I'm not suree where you think we disagree.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesw Voice: 613-592-4660a Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)o OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    -----Original Message-----7 From: Brian 'Jarai' Chase [mailto:bdc@world.std.com]=20- Sent: February 5, 2003 1:53 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS?M    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D2F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> ,@& Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:  D I'm always surprised by the fact that there are still people in thisD industry who take what's written in trade rags and press releases atD face value.  Geez, I'd figured people in c.o.v have been around longH enough to be taken by this sort of stuff.  Even when reading between theE lines, it's still nearly impossible to extract any useful, objective,f information.  ? > For a more realistic view of where Linux is at, check out:=20m > ="H http://www.techrepublic.com/article_guest.jhtml?id=3Dr00520021202ggg01.h > tm > &page=3D1iH > ""The cost of acquisition of software, hardware-all the things you buyF > up front-that's a minority element of the total cost of ownership of anypC > operating system," he said. "Whether you pay $2,000 for a Windows0E > license or $49.95 for a boxed copy of Linux, over the course of itss- > lifetime, that ends up being a minor cost."i >=20J > Gillen pointed out that $2,000 divided over five years is $400. "What=20J > is the cost for a technical support professional per hour to be there=20= > on staff? Probably a couple of hundred dollars," he noted."m  G This actually works in Linux's favor in the Windows vs. Linux scenario,sH simply because it requires a lot more technical support professionals toA support Windows systems than it does Linux or Unix systems.  (AndsE likewise, I gather it takes even fewer VMS admins).   I've seen this, J firsthand, at all the places I've worked over the past couple of years,=20D in a wide variety of industries: product design & manufacturing, two? different motion picture studios, and a real-estate dotcom. =20l  G Where I work, we've several thousand procs in our primarily Linux basedsD renderfarm through which many terabytes of data are processed on anyG given day.  There's absolutely no way we'd be able to manage supporting4B those same systems if they were Windows based.  If a configurationF change needs to be pushed out to those several thousand systems, I canH do it remotely from home while laying in bed using my trusty VT320 and a( few simple, scriptable, Unix facilities.  E There are things that I don't necessarily like about Linux, but, as anH low end server and processing workhorse, it gets the job done.  In fact,A it gets the job done surprisingly well.  AND it gets the job done H /better/ and /less expensively/ than Microsoft's alternatives, given the# same set of dirt cheap hardware.=20p  G For high-end servers, I don't think Linux is quite there yet.  A lot ofkF people push that idea; personally, my comfort level is much lower withF it in that environment.  Though, truthfully, my concerns are less withF Linux itself and more with the underlying hardware.  There just aren'tH many high-end, high-quality, server platforms out there on which you can   run Linux. =20  , > Also, Linux has its challenges as well:=20< > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963447.html?tag=3Dfd_nbs_entI > Here is something from this article that I am sure will make Bankers=20e: > with mission critical applications feel warm and cozy .. >=20J > "Linux programmers tend to be more free-form, with enough programmers=20F > trying things out so that eventually someone comes upon the right=20G > approach. "If you have enough people going out and trying it, it's=20 I > like this blind hen approach to finding food, sometimes you just get=20i. > lucky," he said. "There is no grand scheme."  F I think that's a rather weak generalization.  I say that because thereB really aren't a separate group of programmers you can label "LinuxE programmers".  They're all "Unix programmers", many of which are verysH competent.  When I worked at DreamWorks Animation, Stan Lippman was justE down the hall from me, working as a "Linux programmer", designing andi writing applications.S  : > Yep, I feel real safe with my large money transfers now.  F I must say, it's pretty amusing to see someone from HP slighting LinuxF like you are.  A few years ago, when I was still at DreamWorks, I seemC to recall HP being /very much/ in favor of the notion of us running)D Linux on hundreds of their HP Visualize workstations.  Then again, ID guess this is to be expected-- the vendor will tell you anything, as3 long as the end result is that you give them money.e  H I'll be sure to keep your opinions in the back of my mind as we considerH an equipment vendor to provide the systems we need to double the size of( our renderfarm over the next few months.   > :-)    :-D    -brian.t --=20$F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----B        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."5               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943f   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Feb 2003 02:07:07 GMT) From: swallowbrook@aol.com (Swallowbrook) 5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking workh9 Message-ID: <20030204210707.20627.00000150@mb-fb.aol.com>o   David (Dachitera),  K Just to be clear, your arguing against something I never said.  My originalo post simply said:  K >> I'm especially interested in working with the extant VMS base which, I'me sure,a5 will still be running for another 10 to even 20 years.  E This is simply true and has little, really, to do with HP management.   N Here's a stat: 3 years after DEC (and it was DEC then) discontinued productionN of PDP-11s, it was still a BILLION dollar business just for DEC, much less allL the third party business, and that's back when a billion dollars could still buy a cup of coffee.  G As to the more global issues, like I said, "such is life", get over it.-   - g-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:21:35 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking workt' Message-ID: <3E40914F.3511DCAD@fsi.net>    Swallowbrook wrote:  > [snip]I > As to the more global issues, like I said, "such is life", get over it.a  F I'm planning a career change to a non-EDP field. Is that "over" enough for you?   --   David J. Dachtera( dba DJE Systemsk http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 15:13:52 -0600s; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)e7 Subject: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???b3 Message-ID: <Or0vo3cSBshP@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  J Our data center is gradually getting warmer? Global warming from the ozoneJ layer has been ruled out :-) We're likely maxing out our air conditioning.  J I've been ordered to come up with a list of heat load for all of our DEC /J Compaq / HP equipment in our data center. I used to know where to get thatG info: the "Systems and Options Catalog". That covers my old stuff, likeG 2100, 4100, and 8400.e  H But where (URLs?) do I find information like that for DS / ES /GS seriesJ machines of all flavors, and for SW800 (fully loaded), ESA10000, EMA12000,H EMA16000, ESL9000, TL891, SAN switches, terminal servers, and everything? else that doesn't still have a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on the box?,   Thanks for any help.    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B 	Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:49:28 -06004 From: "Hall, Bill" <Bill.Hall@Nav-International.com>; Subject: RE: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???uP Message-ID: <1188E2959811D511B35600508B63A90B0682454A@canxspn2.can.navistar.com>  J I use the "HP Product Bulletin" page for links to current products and theC old stuff in SOC or Compaq "QuickSpecs" format.  This url may wrap: B http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/productbulletin.html  	 Bill Hallt* International Truck and Engine Corporation   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 01:44:32 GMTy) From: sol gongola <sdgongola@verizon.net>aF Subject: Re: Inspecting VMS SMTP email contents before it gets to user* Message-ID: <3E406EC8.50B4DB9@verizon.net>   David Webb wrote:s > j > In article <d7791aa1.0302040603.5bda25f2@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > >winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A1AF62.3D3EDCBC@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>... m > >> In article <d7791aa1.0302032014.5b61af9b@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: m > >> >"Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote in message news:<3e3ee120$1@news.si.com>... C > >> >> >I need to programmatically intercept email received by VMSaE > >> >> >and inspect it before it gets POPped to its final recipient.  > >> >>i@ > >> >> Why not get Sophos' anti-virus program that runs on VMS? > >> >E > >> >that's fine if you want to look for vms viruses (such a thing?)e@ > >> >but to scan smtp bodies you only have one option right now< > >> >and that's pmdf ... lousy but that's the way it is ... > >>K > >> PMDF processes incoming email and can have the message body scanned bynJ > >> Sophos.  This means that you don't deliver the viral load of infectedP > >> messages to PC clients.  Sophos isn't looking for VMS viruses, it's runningR > >> on VMS and looking for PC viruses.  (And seems to do a pretty good job, too.) > >>O > >> Are you calling PMDF lousy or saying that it's lousy that there's only one 9 > >> option?  I think PMDF is pretty darned good, myself.c > >> > >> -- Alan > >> > >iE > >there is a sophos vms virus scan the previous poster was referringaF > >to sold separately, but to get smtp virus scans, you need pmdf, andC > >no I didn't call pmdf lousy, but its lousy they will not provide A > >a smtp virus scan product for other smtp servers (ie tcpware).( > 5 > The functionality needed isn't in the TCPIP stacks.  > You need to be able to :-  > 6 > 1) Split the message up into each of its attachmentsO > 2) Mime decode each attachment (or in the case of older mail clients UUDECODEn >    attachments).J > 3) Scan for the virus and decide what to do with the message/attachment. >    iet > ! >    a) Delete the entire messagey! >    b) Bounce the entire message.C >    c) Replace the infected attachment with a text warning message M >       and then continue processing other message attachments and eventuallyl >       deliver the message. > R >    This requires passing information back to the mailserver from the commandfile >    running the virus scanner.l > L > 4) Put the message back together taking care that any message replacements/ >    are correctly mime encoded and structured.m > P > It is very easy to disrupt the structure of a Mime message especially if it is6 > complicated to start with eg multi-part alternative. > ) > PMDF and MX provide this functionality. M > (I've never used MX but have been told on previous occasions that it's SITE M > interface provides this functionality. For more information on MX you mighta$ > try the vmsnet.mail.mx newsgroup). > P > Sophos were talking about porting their Mailmonitor product to VMS which wouldK > also provide this functionality but I don't know whether they have firmlyt > commited to this.t > L > I doubt if any of the TCPIP vendors on VMS would be willing to add in thisH > functionality since you would be asking them to massively increase theN > functionality of the built in SMTP servers they provide. You would almost beM > asking them to produce a complete mail system like Sendmail or Exim on UnixbL > without the benefit of a large open source community for development or itL > being a commercial product. Since commercial systems such as PMDF (and theS > semi-commercial MX) exist which are b and allowetter than Sendmail there seems nonN > real reason for them to spend money on such a development - especially sinceQ > the vendor of the TCPWARE and Multinet TCIP stacks is also the vendor for PMDF.n >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  @ The above is really overkill for what needs to be done in system	 software.e  B All that is needed is a way to tell either TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COMD or TCPIP$SMTP_SYMBIONT.EXE to pass the name of the mail file either B before or after processing and allow a routine to specify if that @ file should continue to be processed, or allow a substitute file9 name to be passed back to replace the original mail file.r  C Such a hook function (or entry function or exit function depending t@ on the platform) capability should not be a traumatic change to B VMS/TCPIP/SMTP. It might even result in an increase in the number 9 of vendors with antivirus and antispam software for VMS.     sol gongolap   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 13:48:19 -0800.- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)< Subject: Installing Watchern= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0302051348.244642fe@posting.google.com>e  A Im trying install Watcher (killer idle user), in a VAX/VMS 5.5-20C system, but when I execute the procedure watcher_startup.com I get: " > process identifications 00002ab4
 When I issue:i > sh sys/out=x.lis > sear x.lis watcher nothing is founded.F Below the configurating file:   
 SET VERIFY SET INTERVAL=00:01:00m6 SET WATCH_DEFAULT/WARNING=00:10:00/DISCONNECT=00:15:00 SET NOEVENTm SET BELL' WATCH *RT*/MEASURE=TERMINAL_IO=5/LOGOUT ( WATCH *TNA*/MEASURE=TERMINAL_IO=5/LOGOUT WATCH *u EXCLUDE SYSTEM
 EXCLUDE FIELDi EXCLUDE ENGINEERINGn   Any suggestion to me ?	 Thanks...=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 00:52:50 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>D Subject: Re: Installing Watcherf2 Message-ID: <3E41B016.F44BE6C8@firstdbasource.com>   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:9 > C > Im trying install Watcher (killer idle user), in a VAX/VMS 5.5-2=E > system, but when I execute the procedure watcher_startup.com I get:-$ > > process identifications 00002ab4 > When I issue:r > > sh sys/out=x.lis > > sear x.lis watcher > nothing is founded.p > Below the configurating file:. >  > SET VERIFY > SET INTERVAL=00:01:0008 > SET WATCH_DEFAULT/WARNING=00:10:00/DISCONNECT=00:15:00
 > SET NOEVENTr
 > SET BELL) > WATCH *RT*/MEASURE=TERMINAL_IO=5/LOGOUT * > WATCH *TNA*/MEASURE=TERMINAL_IO=5/LOGOUT	 > WATCH *w > EXCLUDE SYSTEM > EXCLUDE FIELDs > EXCLUDE ENGINEERINGf >  > Any suggestion to me ? > Thanks....   try:   $show process /id=00002ab4 e! where 00002ab4 is the process id.   ! Is there a log file for this app?  --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:03:36 GMTw* From: Biggibby <biggibby@txitservices.com>* Subject: Interested in Linux on Mainframe?@ Message-ID: <Xns93198F0793CB5biggibbytxitservices@151.164.30.44>   Hello,  B If anyone is interested in developing for Linux on an IBM zSeries F mainframe, leave a note with your e-mail address and I'll send you an  invitation.    Regards,   Chris,   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:04:00 -0800.( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski). Subject: Re: Interested in Linux on Mainframe?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302051904.62db12c4@posting.google.com>o  r Biggibby <biggibby@txitservices.com> wrote in message news:<Xns93198F0793CB5biggibbytxitservices@151.164.30.44>... > Hello, > D > If anyone is interested in developing for Linux on an IBM zSeries H > mainframe, leave a note with your e-mail address and I'll send you an 
 > invitation.  > 
 > Regards, >  > ChrisV  @ how much life insurance do they get, because they might need it!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:52:46 -0800u& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>Y Subject: Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan  31 Jana/ Message-ID: <v412k8d7mefm06@corp.supernews.com>m   David J. Dachtera wrote: > : > So, EFI supports a serial console with no graphics card? >    Yes. -- e
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 19:11:16 -0600h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iY Subject: Re: Itanium EFI Console (was: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 3131b' Message-ID: <3E4064B4.8D2F2E5B@fsi.net>t   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > ] > In article <b1mjf9$1401cb$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:c > N > :My main gripe with I386 boxes is that the BIOS interface is not very smart,? > :even though it allows a lot of customization of the machine.eL > :But my systems (and the ones at work) do not boot automatically, but waitL > :at the boot prompt instead. That allows for operator checks that are more) > :difficult to do with a BIOS interface.m > K >   EFI is far beyond any IA-32 BIOS-like scheme I've seen or used, and EFItK >   easily provides the requested power-up options -- you can boot into thevJ >   EFI shell, for instance -- among many other capabilities.  By default.I >   EFI shows you a list of the local bootable disk devices it has found,dL >   for instance, and has simple customization and boot-order support.  (SRMJ >   can show you the disk devices that are present, of course, but EFI canF >   identify the disks and the operating system(s) that are resident.) > L >   The EFI shell is a reasonably powerful and effective command environmentI >   for a system console.  (HELP lists a couple-dozen commands.)  EFI hasaI >   some specific and significant advantages over SRM.  Some weirdnesses, K >   too.  (This statement is not intended to imply that the SRM console had / >   any particular shortage of weirdnesses. :-)p > K >   Both SRM and EFI are capable of providing a system console for OpenVMS,s? >   and in meeting the expectations of OpenVMS system managers.k > 7 >   Both SRM and EFI have some cool features, too.  :-)r  8 So, EFI supports a serial console with no graphics card?   -- h David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:19:23 +0100" From: "arjan" <arjanmarkt@@xs4all>) Subject: Re: Maximum of simultanius logind6 Message-ID: <3e417fdb$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  ) I Tryed, But I can not find anything ....i Can you help me ??   Arjan     3 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> schreef in berichtb* news:01C2CBB6.DEC983B0@sulfer.icius.com...D > There was a thread on this a month or two back which contains manyG > variations on this theme, for different basic requirements. I suggest 9 > you use google.com to look back and browse the threads.. >. > Shanep >w > -----Original Message-----: > From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com]) > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:30 PMn > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-+ > Subject: Re: Maximum of simultanius login9 >: >- > arjan wrote: > >r
 > > Hi There,@ > >m2 > > (I am a newbe ...., so sorry for the question) > >5I > > Is it possible to tell an Alpha 800 server with Open VMS 7.1.2 that aaE > > specific user can NOT login in more than one time using a tellnetu sessionf
 > > ?????? >hG > There are many ways to do this.. one is to limit the MAXJOBS in theirw > login account (mc authorize)J > another is more laborius and requires a bit of DCL programming in eitherJ > their login.com or sylogin.com. but if they are any good at DCL and haveB > access to DCL and are not captive or restricted, then they could" > probably figure a way around it. >m >n > --
 > Regards, >i8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 23:24:55 GMT & From: hoffman@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Newbie @ OpenVMSr* Message-ID: <b1s6g7$qsl$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  p In article <80252768.0302030002.639b26ea@posting.google.com>, kiwitter@Programmer.net (Patrick Kiwitter) writes:  3 :i'am new at OpenVMS and have need some answers....m  =   Please read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).  a     The FAQ URL:      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  E   You will find discussions of IA-32 versions of OpenVMS, of HobbyistiC   licensing and ordering, and the answer to other common questions.eD   (The next questions that you will probably have as you continue to   learn about OpenVMS. :-)  C   Please note there is absolutely no need to identify yourself as aoA   Newbie.  We already know that.  (We were all once newbies, too,v4   and many of us remember the signs and symptoms.)    C   Again, as a Newbie to OpenVMS or most any other subject area, you E   will want to look for and acquire the associated FAQ.   In the casenC   of OpenVMS, I would encourage you to download and read and searchi   the text-format OpenVMS FAQ:      http://www.openvms.compaq.com/      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:11:16 -0800'( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302051911.73f9899@posting.google.com>   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E3E8535.2040701@nospamn.sun.com>...p > + > It depends what you define as technology.a > 2 > We can argue about SPARC vs Power vs Alpha until0 > we are blue in the face, but they are only one6 > component in a system which also includes, compilers > OS, interconnect, etc. > 9 > The only conclusions you can draw from this that either 9 > the technology lead that you thought the combination ofa8 > Alpha and its compilers had over other RISC processors7 > and their compilers is illusory or that whatever leadt9 > Alpha had was easily offset by it being shoehorned into : > systems that trailed their competition from a technology
 > standpoint.  > = > Designing and building a large server is a holistic processt= > and doesn't begin and end with the CPU is is also somethingc > you clearly don't grasp. > 	 > Regardsn > Andrew Harrisona  > what?  your ceo scott m. about wet his pants trying to declare= alpha was dead ... how people are lining up to buy the sparkya= team Andrew?  I know from 18 years now of DEC experience that = DEC software and hardware was and always will be the best ...r= EV7 carries on that tradition and EV8 (which is not dead yet)n> would have carried on the tradition ... many cpu experts agree> that alpha is and was superior ... those are the facts Andrew,6 and no moronic arguments you make will ever change it.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:13:56 -0800a( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302051913.7824c9a8@posting.google.com>a  ^ david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) wrote in message news:<b1lhei$nai$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... > I > But that's the point Bob. They got the Alpha engineers to try and save eJ > itanium but it is their general expertise in chip design rather than the< > specifics of Alpha technology which they will have to use.Q > The philosophy of Alpha and IA64 are so far apart that without a major redesign"Q > of Itanium (ie dropping of Epic and massive streamlining of the chip) then mostoK > of the specific's of Alpha design cannot be successfully transplanted to ME > Itanium. Any such major redesign is years away (if it ever occurs).  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  9 really?  on chip glue and hyperthreading will not work on ' itanic?  you better tell intel that ...e   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 20:23:46 -0800h" From: xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <baa86a4a.0302052023.3ea916db@posting.google.com>i  v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0302031219.2be9bf68@posting.google.com>...i > xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote in message news:<baa86a4a.0302021111.2db94598@posting.google.com>...t0 > > HP Calculators? Not profitable enough - fireI > > all the engineers in the calculator division. Shut the division down.  >  u > > HP Calculators. Gone.h >  > Oh, really?  Check this out: > 8 > HP Expands Its Calculator Line with Two New Offerings ; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030123b.htmli  ? I guess the guys I know personally who were laid off were fake.u  : And $15 calculators? the 48GX used to be $200-$300. Sounds% progressive. Like cheap shit inkjets.   - Here is some info I picked up on the subject:a    Goodbye to HP's ACO        The end of HP calculators?  ? Many have wondered about the future of HP calculators. The last ? official ROM for the HP49G was released in May 2000. Aside fromcC unofficial beta ROMs released by the developers personally, nothing E new has come out at all from HP's calculator division since mid-2000.e  < That end seems to have arrived. As to whether HP will resume= calculator development again, nobody knows. As much as I hopeoE something new will arrive from HP someday, I wouldn't be surprised ife this really is the end.t  ? The first HP calculators were designed at the "Advanced Product D Division" (APD) in Cupertino, CA, USA. For overcrowding reasons, the@ employees were transferred to the Corvallis, OR, USA, offices in? September, 1976. Development continued in Corvallis through thenE HP48G/GX, which were released in 1993. After 1993, HP decided to movetD calculator operations to Singapore. The HP38G, released in 1995, wasF the result of a joint venture between HP Corvallis and HP Singapore asD an attempt to help "train" the Singapore staff in calculator design.; Unfortunately, Singapore did nothing on its own after this.g  ; In November 1997, HP Australia decided to revive calculatortE operations. The Australian Calculator Operation (ACO) was formed. ACO ? scoured the HP48 user community to find the best programmers of:= calculator software and hired them. Jean-Yves Avenard, Gerald:E Squelart, and Cyrille de Brebisson, all creators of Meta Kernel, were@C hired directly, and Mika Heiskanen and Bernard Parisse, creators ofmE ALG48 and Erable, respectively, contributed from outside HP. This was C one of HP's last super-smart business moves -- find the best peoplet for the job and hire them.  D Although ACO initially started out small (the 48G+), they went on toB redesign several older HP calculator products to reduce productionC cost (the 12C and 17BII, among others). Their first big project was(E the 49G. Other notable releases were the 39/40 and the 30S. They alsonD worked on a number of projects which were eventually cancelled, most publicly the Xpander.B  A In 2000 and 2001, things really started to sour. With the Xpander ? cancelled just weeks before its release, the renaming of ACO tosF Appliance and Calculator Operation to reflect the smaller significanceE of calculators, and the desire from HP management to only participatedE in markets where HP can dominate, ACO was doomed. ACO was pretty mucheD shut down in 2000 anyway, given the lack of anything new since then.  E On November 1, 2001 (USA time), Jean-Yves and Gerald announced to theiF public that ACO was being shut down, effective November 9th. They only@ had one week notice. Below are their respective newsgroup posts.    P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  + From: avenar_j@epita.fr (Jean-Yves Avenard)v Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp48h  Subject: Good bye ... I leave HP$ Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:33:52 +1100  
 Dear all..  D So that's it.. My big adventure with HP will be over as of November, 9thg 2001 (after 3.98 years).  = Gerald (WarlockHP) and myself will fly alone starting our ownr	 business.   D I will still try to answer questions here regarding the HP49 and the HP39/40.? If I have time, I will try to release a last ROM before leavinga	 (1.19-7).   F In the meantime, if you have any business opportunities that may be in ourT? competencies (embedded software, network security, sytems, javai
 etc...) do4 not hesitate to contact me directly at this address:7 jyavenard@hotmail.com (until I get my own domain name).r   Best regards	 Jean-YvesL   (original post) P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  , From: squelart@hotmail.com (Gerald Squelart) Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp480 Subject: Goodbye ACO... $ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:39:32 -0800    It's indeed a sad day for ACO...F Due to difficult business condition, it has been decided to close ACO.@ All employees here are made redundant. We have one week to pack,? except for a few people who will help for the transition of oure! existing work to other divisions. D What does it mean? Well, I'm not sure myself, but calculators should? still be produced, at least for some time (it's already handlediF independently of ACO). As for our current project, I hope other peopleF will be able to finish it... It's a really cool thing, too bad I can't say anything about it ;-)n  E As Jean-Yves told you, we are taking this change as an opportunity tohF start our own adventure. I'd appreciate if you can help us in any way.' And we'll keep in contact with you all!-  7 If you want to email me, please use my hotmail address:  squelart@hotmail.com  B Finally, please have a thought for all my colleagues and wish them luck in finding new jobs.o   Thanks for your support, Gerald.a  
 Carpe diem   (original post) P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  A Not a whole lot of information was shared, and there was a lot of > confusion in the newsgroup as to the future of HP calculators.0 Basically, what I have been able to see is this:  C All development of HP calculators has been halted, so no new models  will arrive.D Production may or may not have ceased. If it has ceased, it won't beD hard to restart again since production is in a different department.B If it has not ceased, the current situation is really no different4 from the mid-90's, when development also was halted.E Customer service and control of distribution have been transferred tow! HP's Palo Alto, CA, USA, offices.e? Note that there have been reports of HP taking back supplies oftE calculators from stores. I don't know anything about the truth behindlD these rumors, but if these rumors are true, it's certainly not good.@ Also remember that HP had some fairly substantial rebates on its" calculators in the summer of 2001.    P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  E My personal opinion is that HP died when it split off Agilent. It was-A really the only division left that was still innovative and stilluA following the HP Way. All that's left of HP now is a company thats> makes poor quality computers and cheap (and some not-so-cheap)B printers. I bet Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard are rolling in their graves right now.u  D Finally, in mid-November 2001, Hewlett-Packard released its officialD view on ACO. Notice that the president of HP's EPS doesn't even knowE what ACO stands/stood for! I guess this shows how much HP cared about.? a division that actually could innovate. Below is this release:n    P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   MESSAGE FROM IAIN MORRIS7 President, HP Embedded and Personal Systems Group (EPS)c  E I wanted to take this opportunity to address several inquiries I havenE received from hp calculator fans regarding hp's recent closure of theuA Australia Calculator Organization (ACO). First of all I'd like toiC begin by saying that HP is not exiting the calculator business! The E decision to close our office in Melbourne is a separate issue and not0E related to our ability to deliver calculators worldwide. This was notrC an easy decision to make, but the continuing tough business climatenD has forced hp and many companies to make painful cost reductions and) to consolidate efforts wherever possible.-  D HP will continue to deliver calculators and remains committed to theF business. The business model, channel strategy and sales and marketing  activities will remain the same.  @ I appreciate your feedback and loyalty to the hp brand, and look" forward to your continued support.   Iain    P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  E Notice that nowhere in here does he mention that the calculators wills? continue to be manufactured. He only says they will continue totE "deliver" the calculators. For all we know, this means they will onlylA "deliver" existing stock of calculators. And when they're gone? IhD don't even want to think about it. I hope they continue making them,+ but I don't know how long it will continue.a  F Also, considering that marketing was pretty much non-existent already,D I don't see how that can possibly change. And channel strategy? What channel strategy?3  ? Joshua Schoolcraft forwarded me responses from two different HPo< employees regarding the closure of ACO. Below are the almost contradictory messages.     P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  - Thank you for your feedback re this decision.o  C As a result of continued challenging market decisions, HP has takeni themF decision to rationalise its research and development operations and to6 consolidate these activities in Singapore and the U.S.  @ This has resulted in the closure of the Appliance and Calculator	 OperationnF in Australia.  Calculator research and development will still continue -i just not in Australia.   Yours sincerely,  	 Shan Taigl  (  ***************************   Shan Taig8 *******   _/          *******  Customer Feedback Support7 *****    _/             *****  & Escalation Coordinatorn( ****    _/_/_/  _/_/_/   ****  Level 3, . ****   _/  _/  _/  _/    ****  351 Burwood Hwy4 ****  _/  _/  _/_/_/     ****  Forest Hill, VIC 3131 *****        _/         *****  n? *******     _/        *******  email: cfs_administration@hp.com 6  ***************************   Phone:  +61 3 8877 51056     i   n   v   e   n   t      Fax:    +61 3 8877 3513  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  # From: acoceo_support@am.exch.hp.comh   Hello,  ; Thank you for contacting HP's Customer Care e-mail support.   @ Your e-mail from the corporate office has been forwarded to the A technical support division for consideration.  At this time, the bF technical support division of HP has not been informed of any changes C within the calculator department.  Officially, we have no knowledgee thatF ACO has come to an end.  I cannot comment upon any rumors that you mayC have read on the internet that state otherwise.  Inquiries of this tF nature really need be responded to by the corporate office.  I do not / know why they chose to refer your e-mail to us.t  F If you need further assistance, please reply to this message.  You may> also find technical and troubleshooting information along with software- updates, on our HP Customer Care Web site at:y   http://www.hp.com/  
 Best regards,h Alex HP Customer Solutions Team  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  B Sigh. Multi-paragraph responses that say what could be said in one sentence. Oh well.  F Remember that HP is the only manufacturer of RPN calculators. RPN diesE with HP unless we do something. As to what we can do, I have no clue.m    7 (quote from Bill Wickes of HP Corvallis, April 4, 1990)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 21:19:26 -0500r& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaiu8 Message-ID: <tbh34v0ot133535frptoae2afdop4a1gl7@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 11:05:56 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >a >a
 >jlsue wrote:gH >> On Mon, 03 Feb 2003 15:23:21 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:i >>   >> u >> oF >>>>VMS has supported NUMA-awareness for quite a while on GS320/160/80H >>>>systems.  For many workloads, it improves performance significantly. >>>oE >>>But not enough to stop people having to use Oracle Parallel ServerLD >>>in a box to get decent throughput. This was a recommendation madeH >>>to one GS160 customer when they found that it was in fact slower than$ >>>their GS140 which had fewer CPU's >>>  >> t >> sF >> I have heard this claim before, but never found anything of meat toB >> it.  If you have a specific instance to which you refer, pleaseG >> provide more details.  Who, what was their problem, who advised themd1 >> to go to multiple instances with OPS in a box?e >>  F >> I have looked throught this newsgroup on google and only ever foundG >> one entry that mentions slower peformance th an their GS140.  It waswH >> not clear at all that they'd ever done any kind of performance tuningD >> on the system.  And there was never any further response from theF >> original poster to obtain enough info to draw any real conclusions. >> m >w; >You havn't looked hard enough, there were a number on this.5 >group. My favourite response being Rob's who pitched07 >Marvel as the solution to the problem, this was a year  >or so ago.e  B That's not true.  I looked all over google, and even put a note inD here about it challenging you before.  There was only ONE entry thatE even came  close and, as I said earlier - now for the third time - it 9 was not clear at all why this person's system was slower.y  A If you've got more, by all means present them.  I'm interested in D learning the issues, but I sincerely have not seen any cases of this> happening for  a system & database that's configured properly.   >u9 >In the UK there have been a number of customers who have 8 >replaced GS320/160s with Suns or IBM's because of these
 >problems. >i5 >If you want more information contact you account rep-0 >for the UK's largest mobile phone sales outlet. >r  C Now this is typical.  You make some attack, and then leave it up to @ the rest of us to find the proof.  If you can't back up your ownB claims, then stop making them.  It is not our job to validate your statements.I   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:27:33 -0500o' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>o  Subject: Re: Oracle 9i and ODS-5< Message-ID: <howard-3AD241.22273304022003@enews.newsguy.com>   In article PH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D2A@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> ,a)  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:w  P > As Bob mentioned, it is very easy to convert an ODS2 volume to ODS5, but just L > ensure things like 3rd party backup utilities, disk defragmenters etc all  > support ODS5 volumes.u  6 Very good advice.  Going backwards is a bit of a pain.   -- n4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 04:18:14 GMTf- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>e= Subject: python - was Re: Status of MySQL and Postgres ports?O< Message-ID: <ag00a.2225$jR3.1043733@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote:o    > Python 2.3: licensing problem,N > The previous maintainer had put on his work an license which is incompatibleM > with the PSF (Python Software Fundation) license, it is not clear if he hasr3 > break the PSF license, we are investigating this.|P > It appear that he has absolutely no concern for the VMS (and Python) communityM > and he want to block any distribution of Python on VMS. If I have correctlylQ > understood the problem,  if you want to build a Python for OpenVMS distribution-@ > you have the choice to violate the PSF license or his license.= > So, currently, it seem impossible to have a Python for VMS.t* > If someone has a solution he is welcome.  H Python 2.2.1 or 2.3a seems to build just fine for me, but I am having a E problem in the getpath.c module that I have not had time to run down dB yet.  Not really having an understanding of Python has not helped.  D I am building it against my frontport library, but it looks like it ( should build against the GNV stuff also.  < I have not looked at the VMS specific extensions yet though.  < The big thing is to remove the VMS specific stuff from from I [modules]main.c,getbuildinfo.c that was added for 2.3a.  This is using a  H hack that requires that the program be linked against the system image, + and will not work with the Itanium version.p  F It is better to have the build procedure set the symbol value like it  does on the other platforms.  E I have hand built a PYTHON.MMS out of the makefile that was provided CC with the kit, and have a procedure PYCONFIG_H.COM that creates the 6% pyconfig.h file needed for the build.h  A Right now I am working on fixing a few features in the Frontport nH library, so the python work is in the background, but I have no problem  with sharing what I have.a  I The vnsnet.vms-posix newsgroup looks like a good place to have technical eG discusions about porting open-source projects, and posting small files  0 if anyone is interested in working on this also.    # Directory PROJECT_ROOT:[PYTHON_VMS]   7 BUILDPYTHON.EXE;1   LIBPYTHON.EXE;2     LIBPYTHON.EXE;1    Total of 3 files.r  * Directory PROJECT_ROOT:[PYTHON_VMS.PARSER]  2 PGEN.EXE;3          PGEN.EXE;2          PGEN.EXE;1   Total of 3 files.h     EAGLE> MMS/DESCRIP=PYTHON test   Starting build    17-JAN-2003 00:07:03e Building shared modules?" Python build claims to be complete+ Python platform build claims to be completei5 $ testpython := $lcl_src:buildpython.exe """-E""" -tt ( $ define libpython lcl_src:libpython.exe $ show sym testpythono3    TESTPYTHON = "$LCL_SRC:BUILDPYTHON.EXE "-E" -TT" ( $ testpython prj_lib_test:regrtest.py -lA X Toolkit Warning: Cannot allocate colormap entry for "Gainsboro"h X Toolkit Warning::      Cannot allocate colormap entry for default background  6 Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>9 Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix> 8 Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]* 'import site' failed; use -v for traceback" Traceback (most recent call last):1    File "prj_lib_test:regrtest.py", line 68, in ?o      import os ImportError) : No module named os     -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 05:15:39 GMTe- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>eA Subject: Re: python - was Re: Status of MySQL and Postgres ports? < Message-ID: <%bm0a.3193$jR3.1373918@news1.news.adelphia.net>  # [Followups set to vmsnet.vms-posix]h Richard Brodie wrote:a: > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message8 > news:ag00a.2225$jR3.1043733@news1.news.adelphia.net... > B >>Right now I am working on fixing a few features in the FrontportI >>library, so the python work is in the background, but I have no problemt >>with sharing what I have.d > H > I have had a preliminary look at porting from sources but haven't evenM > got as far as compiling all the modules. As you say, CRTLs aren't what theyaH > used to be. I would be interested in anything you have so far, though.  D I will try to find the time tomorrow evening to start describing my E build environment in the vmsnet.vms-posix group, and posting the mms .0 scripts and command files I use to do the build.   -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 21:14:51 -0800r, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)( Subject: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0302052114.2572665e@posting.google.com>   D I have a BA364 enclosure connected to an AlphaStation 500/266 (model< PB540-A9). According to the documentation, the built-in SCSID controller is "fast wide SCSI-2". However, when I do a "show dev" atD the SRM prompt, the controller shows up as SCSI ID 7. When I set theF fourth ID switch on any drive position, it is ignored-- only the first# three switches seem to do anything.r  F Is there some special firmware setting somewhere that I need to changeE or am I missing something here? "Fast wide SCSI-2" does mean up to ID 
 15, right?  F The internal connectors are the 68 pin "D" connectors and the external is the same. Any ideas?r   Thanks.  Bill McLaughlini   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:15:17 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>S; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ... / Message-ID: <b1rrck$3ei$1@helle.btinternet.com>i  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagel* news:01C2CD00.BB8BF180@sulfer.icius.com...B > In article <3e3ff8e1$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge"3 > <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:  >c > <snip> > >tH > > This is the "if you build it, they will come" argument.  AMD isn't a systemK > > builder.  DELL, HP, and others will only sell it if there is a specificuJ > > financial advantage to do so.  Will it be fast enough, or cheap enough for- > > the big guys to do it? > >0$ > [hope I got the attribution right] > I > Interestingly, AMD may not be a builder but they've got a small company2H > building servers that they plan to let the biger companies rebadge andH > ship. I forget the company name, but it's those guys who were buildingJ > the advance 1400mhz boxes that were linked here a while back. Looking atJ > the specs and PR on their website, looked like a lot of thought had goneF > into trying to make them as reliable as possible, no single point of
 > failure. >:J > If someone like Dell were to want to ship Opteron, they could hit marketC > very quickly by making a deal with these guys. I think that's whyL > they're doing it.I >i > Shane   H Newisys? Seems they're doing the design but someone different again willE actually do the build; that's the "industry standard" way these days.<  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6576( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6673   etc8  I L'Inq also reports today that IBM (talking to Network World) say they mayh% use and even make their own Opterons.-( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7624   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 21:12:58 +0100h From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...h3 Message-ID: <iee0a.54756$Y9.3816967@zwoll1.home.nl>V   Vance Haemmerle wrote: > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > K >>So I wouldn't say that Hammer failing is "highly unlikely".  I'd say thatGM >>it's still a crap shoot.  Alpha didn't win in the market place, even though H >>it was arguably superior.  Nor did Beta (much to my displeasure when I1 >>finally threw away my Betamax a few years ago).  >  >   >   Hey, a fellow Betamax owner! > @ >   It sucks when the best product doesn't succeed.  I see a lotG > of parallels with Alpha and Beta.  You know, Sony published full pageaJ > ads in Latin America in 1988, 1989 saying "Beta es para siempre. PalabraH > de honor. Palabra de Sony." which translates to "Beta is forever. WordI > of honor. Word of Sony."  Of course, this past August Sony announced it I > was stopping Betamax production by the end of 2002.  It seems corporateuH > promises don't mean anything.  I let Sony have it about those promisesB > when I was interviewed on the CBC (Canadian radio) in September. >  > -- > Vance Haemmerle + > Founder of the Betaphile Club (1988-1991)n  M Wow, did Betamax survive that long in Latin America ? In Europe we had three  N systems, VHS, Betamax and V2000. The latter one was considered by many as the N best system. The cassette was about the same size as the other types, but you P could use it on two sides, just as with an audio cassette. On the last versions  you could record 16 hours.  M Somewhere around 1988 there was a discussion about the future of the 3 video tO systems. It was held on the Funkschau in Berlin (big annual electronics show). uN There I heard a Philips rep saying that all three systems would last at least M another 10 years, and then we would get digital vcr's. The next January they a announced the end of V2000.0   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 02:51:19 GMT- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) # Subject: Re: Space Shuttle softwaree& Message-ID: <H9v99J.CH7@world.std.com>  / In article <3E40CAE8.CDF06508@vl.videotron.ca>, 2 JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:N > Since Space Shuttle software and VMS have one thing in common: QUALITY, hereM > are some interesting links provided by some australian :   "Alan and Carmel   > Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au> > (I have not checked them all)e >  > [...]a    J Here's a good article about the software process and the people behind it:4 http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html   -brian.o -- tF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----F  "Captain, we're experiencing a high rate of packet collisions!" -- K.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 03:06:02 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com># Subject: Re: Space Shuttle software + Message-ID: <uik0a.4760$tq4.2272@sccrnsc01>o  : "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message  news:H9v99J.CH7@world.std.com...1 > In article <3E40CAE8.CDF06508@vl.videotron.ca>,t4 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:K > > Since Space Shuttle software and VMS have one thing in common: QUALITY,e hereH > > are some interesting links provided by some australian :   "Alan and Carmel" > > Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>! > > (I have not checked them all)o  L Trust me when I say that I mean no disrespect nor do I denigrate the qualityH of VMS in any way, but the quality of the Space Shuttle software is manyJ orders of magnitude above VMS. That said, I feel safe making the following
 statement:  D Regarding quality, the Space Shuttle software is to VMS as VMS is to Windows.     -- Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. Phone: 847-730-3193e Fax:      847-730-3194 Cell:      847-370-3071e Text:     melevy@vtext.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:09:10 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>, Subject: Re: symbios 53c875j scsi controller6 Message-ID: <b1rngr$162j8i$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  7 "Scott Felder" <sfelder@feltech.com> schreef in bericht-4 news:hJZ%9.82773$Ib.1775595@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...H > I would like to know if a Symbios 53c875j chipset scsi controller will work& > with OpenVMS Alpha 7.2 on a DEC PWS.	 > Thanks.c >w
 > Scott F. >  >r+ The KZPCM on my system mentions: SYM53C875.o% Not sure about the "j" suffix though.hD There are two models with that chip set out there, the KZPCM brandedF device is supported by VMS. The other one gives checksum errors in theI initial stages of the VMS boot process. Either the firmware is "modified" B or the VMS device driver was programmed to accept only VMS branded controllers.   Hans   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 14:01:20 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: TCP IP PAK-$ Message-ID: <3e415f7d$1@news.si.com>  H >what is a PAK ? Where did i get it from ? is it just a number ? does it cost >extra license to use tcpip ?   L A PAK is a "Product Authorization Key" and if you got OpenVMS from Montagar,J then you should have gotten your PAKs along with it.  I believe they're on the CD.  -- ?I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comh5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:02:12 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>6 Subject: Re: Telnet  to a BIND Sever & Load Balancing.6 Message-ID: <b1rn3p$15qla7$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  2 "M_Alys" <mafia_bond@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht7 news:e382348b.0302042342.13e680d0@posting.google.com...s > Hi,1 >pF > Would appreciate if someone can help me with this problem, how can IE > configure a remote PC with Windows 98 to telnet to an OpenVms AlphaeH > v7.1-2 server consist of 2 servers with 2 different IPs (i.e. IP-A and/ > IP-B), using BIND service and load balancing.  >t > TIA.K Put in two CNAME entries on the DNS server, provided it rotates all entriesV thatK translate to the same destination address. BIND 8 and 9 servers can do thats
 when told.5 For the actual sematics visit comp.protocols.dns.bindu   Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 19:53:55 -0800 # From: mafia_bond@yahoo.com (M_Alys) 6 Subject: Re: Telnet  to a BIND Sever & Load Balancing.= Message-ID: <e382348b.0302051953.2afce47b@posting.google.com>i  ` "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message news:<b1rn3p$15qla7$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...4 > "M_Alys" <mafia_bond@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht9 > news:e382348b.0302042342.13e680d0@posting.google.com...e > > Hi,  > >MH > > Would appreciate if someone can help me with this problem, how can IG > > configure a remote PC with Windows 98 to telnet to an OpenVms AlphanJ > > v7.1-2 server consist of 2 servers with 2 different IPs (i.e. IP-A and1 > > IP-B), using BIND service and load balancing.- > >- > > TIA.M > Put in two CNAME entries on the DNS server, provided it rotates all entries- > thatM > translate to the same destination address. BIND 8 and 9 servers can do thatC > when told.7 > For the actual sematics visit comp.protocols.dns.bindg >  > Hans  P ================================================================================ Thanx Hans,o  B Appreciate your reply, in the mean time, I'm not sure whether I'veD posted the correct question and do not know whether should I post myA question here or to the comp.protocols.dns.bind as suggested. Thet? actual problem is, my company have 2 servers (clustered) with 2o- different IPs and sharing the same host name,  i.e. 172.x.x.A  sb1.bos.aaa.aaan      172.x.x.B  sb1.bos.aaa.aaahF and these servers use BIND service and load balancing, in other words,@ the remote user (currently use dumb terminal) just need to issue? connect sb1 and it's  transparent to them on which server theiryC session connected to, and if I'm not mistaken the resolution of thefE DNS was done on the Terminal server. As we are moving to TCPIP, we'vesC changed the dumb terminal to PC with Win98, and remove the TerminalU> server and replace it with switches/hubs and use telnet to get connected to host.   My question:; a)How am I going to achieve the same benefit as the currenta connectivity (dumb terminal).g8 b)How will the DNS get resolved or recognise by the hostC c)Can I use "telnet sb1" to get connected to host, and how can I dos that.e  > So sorry for the long list of questions, it would be much moreF appreciated if you could help me resolve this issue, and would greatly# appreciate to others input as well..   TIA and best regards.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 02:52:34 GMT-$ From: Steve Young <sdyoung@well.com>< Subject: Re: Trouble with ext. CD-ROM on VAXstation 4000/VLC; Message-ID: <S5k0a.195713$H7.7340433@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>g  A In article <H9IqID.4s8@world.std.com>, Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:l. > In article <b18k4i$50q$1@reader1.panix.com>,2 > John Forkosh  <john@SeeSigForAddress.com> wrote: > = >> Off topic, but are the new vax hobbyist cd's shipping now? 2 >> How long will it take to arrive after ordering? > J > I got mine last week.  IIRC, it was only about a week between the time IG > ordered it and the time that it arrived; I used PayPal to pay for it.j  I   Mine was very quick, maybe a week from order to delivery.  But I gatherhH that I happened to order right as a new pressing came in.   7.3 is still not available for Alphas yet.u     Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 13:57:21 -0800 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>@ Subject: VAX/VMS Hobbyist Kit for VWS (VAX Workstation Software)- Message-ID: <3E4188C1.73594DEC@NelsonUSA.com>e  B I just got my Hobbyist VAX/VMS v7.3 CDROM from Montagar (Thanks!),> so I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   My old VAXstation will live again.  = I know that they could not fit everything on one CDROM, but IgF see that there is no kit for VWS (VAX Workstation/Windowing Software)./ Does anyone have a current copy of the VWS kit?e  A I have a very old (VMS v6.1 timeframe) kit.   Does anyone know ifaA it will still work with VMS v7.3?   Because it includes a driver, B I suspect that the answer is "no", but hope springs eternal.   :-)  = Yes, I know that I could run DECwindows, but I really want too? play Lunar Lander again, plus VWS had some really nice featuresl that I miss in DECwindows.   Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:38:18 -0400k0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>D Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Hobbyist Kit for VWS (VAX Workstation Software)/ Message-ID: <3E41AE75.25CD7120@vl.videotron.ca>    Alan Frisbie wrote:t? > Yes, I know that I could run DECwindows, but I really want to A > play Lunar Lander again, plus VWS had some really nice featuresf > that I miss in DECwindows.  J I could never understand why the DEC engineers never ported DEClander to XN windows. This is totally unacceptable and definitely one of the primary causes for VMS' demise :-)h  R SYSGEN as of VAX VMS 7.2 still supports a WINDOW_SYSTEM value of 2 for UIS. (VWS).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:47:16 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?, Message-ID: <3E417854.9090904@tsoft-inc.com>  
 Dan wrote:  G > On 5 Feb 2003 05:20:51 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t > wrote: >  >>  1.	l >> > <snip fluf and crap removed> > H > BS... sun does it... you can get the source code off the web for free.6 > it doesn't lower the price or piss off shareholders. >  > Dan. >     P This issue has come up in the past.  There's probably someone who now or in the I past hasn't believed in their product.  Just as suggestions for security sH challenges have been presented to the VMS people, and gotten shot down, O suggestions for access to source listings for any who ask has also gotten shot pN down.  The former produced some allusions to some high priority customers not L liking the idea.  I'm sure the same thinking goes into the perspective that P those high priority customers wouldn't like every hacker having ready access to 
 the listings.a  O It's the only reason I can guess at.  It sort of forgets that the listings are m1 available, but in a rather low visibility manner.o  K The case for availability of the listings includes many good reasons, from eO software developers designing a product that will work closely with the OS, to lO the tinkerer who just has to take something apart (figuritively) to see how it dH works.  (Some of the latter might become very good programmers in time.)  L If it's fear, then I challenge some people to have some confidence in their P product.  If it's something else, I'm interested in the reasoning.  One thing I L know it isn't, is trying to make any profit on the source listings license. P That statement was made by Richard Marcello in a direct response to my question.     Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 23:01:57 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?3 Message-ID: <aEAyiCK5d$6f@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <87ptq7y29p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:C > G >> So with whom did you sign the source listings license agreement that.1 >                                 ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^-G >> would give you the rights to use them ?  Compaq also had the "single- >> location" rule. > ? > Larry, do you mean a source licence, or a CD listing kit? Two: > very different animals....  A The official name of the license my company signed for the sourcei< listings CD is "Software Program Sources License Agreement".  C I don't believe any VMS source kit has been sold (or requested by atC customer) for years.  In 1981 or so when a consulting client bought F one, the cost was $25,000.  That is still with trade secrets withheld.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Feb 2003 23:02:48 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?3 Message-ID: <k4gDyhunyimj@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <87u1fjy2gb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o > B >> There are no versions of VMS for which the source listings wereC >> available both on Microfiche and CDROM.  Therefore you have somer2 >> other version covered by a different agreement. > = > Are you totally sure of that? As I recall, it was to be all.> > CDs from 5.0 on, but the fiche continued all through the 5.x+ > versions. Were there listing CDs for 5.x?n  B I recall no overlap, so we will have to let someone else chime in.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 20:56:35 -0600e- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?3 Message-ID: <1EqK$mDJRo$n@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  W In article <3E417854.9090904@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:I  R > This issue has come up in the past.  There's probably someone who now or in the K > past hasn't believed in their product.  Just as suggestions for security tJ > challenges have been presented to the VMS people, and gotten shot down, Q > suggestions for access to source listings for any who ask has also gotten shot a > down.l  D In fact, it was shot down by the majority of the customers attendingD a US DECUS BOF a few years back.  The sentiment seemed to be that anC increase in the number of vendors depending on system internals was-E not a goal for the customers present (admittedly limited to those whor attended the Symposium).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 21:04:06 +0100t. From: labadie <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> Subject: What is a Cluster ?) Message-ID: <3E416E36.C50BEC93@127.0.0.1>d  G Yesterday I went to Linux Solutions near Paris (www.linuxsolutions.fr),, and learned what is a Cluster.  C On a stand, I talked with one person about a "Linux Cluster" with 2d nodes.9  I asked: "so on both nodes I can read and write the samew data/files/database... ?"l@ "No, this is high availability ("haute disponibilit" he said in+ french), it's different and more expensive"e  # A good day: I learned something :-)H   Grard   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:26:55 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: What is a Cluster ?6 Message-ID: <b1rs2k$16gjpn$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  = "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> schreef in bericht # news:3E416E36.C50BEC93@127.0.0.1...-I > Yesterday I went to Linux Solutions near Paris (www.linuxsolutions.fr),P  > and learned what is a Cluster. >aE > On a stand, I talked with one person about a "Linux Cluster" with 2  > nodes.; >  I asked: "so on both nodes I can read and write the samee > data/files/database... ?"cB > "No, this is high availability ("haute disponibilit" he said in- > french), it's different and more expensive"u > % > A good day: I learned something :-)P >a > Grard   ROTFLi: A few thoughts spring to mind, curiously in your language:/ L'histoire se repte (as with Windows klusters)s La plus ce change ....   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 21:32:07 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> Subject: Re: [OT]Re:Columbia( Message-ID: <3E40A1D7.ED583454@mist.com>   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:a > K > The newspapers here have reported that the computers in the Columbia usedsN > 8086 processors (not 80286,386...). I wonder, how come the NASA folks didn'tK > keep the shuttle abreast with new tech? Maybe, security and safety of theiF > shuttle did not have anything to do with the processors, but I guessL > computers are used to monitor and correct movements of the spacecraft. OneM > of the crewmembers was an Indian by origin (Kalpana Chawla by name) and the H > papers were mourning over her unfortunate death. The state she used toK > belong to (Haryana) declared a statewide holiday as a mark of condolence.r* > Things get a bit too far in these parts. >   8 About the most modern RAD hardened chip available is the/ 80486.  The others wouldn't last long up there.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 01:28:33 GMTa# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: [OT]Re:Columbia, Message-ID: <3E41BA31.5F40047@earthlink.net>   "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > J > Actually, the processors are equivalent to the 8086 in processing power.L > They aren't 8086 processors, though.  The memory is ferrite core, which isF > extremely resistant to cosmic radiation and only requires power when# > changing from a 0 to 1 or 1 to 0.a  L FWIW, Core memory is a destructive read device. The state of a bit is sensedM by trying to set it to a certain state (0 or 1, the designer gets to choose).oM If the memory is smart and no state change took place, then there is not need O to set it to its original state (ie, this particular read was non-destructive).oK however, current (and therefore power) is required to attempt to induce theaB state change and slightly more is needed if the bit changes state.  " -- Aaron Sliwinski, nit picking...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 23:42:55 GMTr. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)< Subject: [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number5 Message-ID: <3eY%9.140652$xv1.1729979@news.chello.at>a  : I just noticed a small problem on my V7.4^WV7.3-1 systems.  B $ SHOW CLUSTER shows V7.3 instead of V7.3-1 in the SOFTWARE field.  " Is this intended ? Don't think so.6 (Do you know) is there an ECO on the way to fix this ?  5 The version number is normally stored in the SYS.EXE. B Does SHOW CLUSTER hat it's own version number (source) ? Or is theE SOFTWARE field only too small to show the whole/real version number ?l   TIAo   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Feb 2003 18:31:05 -0800h1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)3@ Subject: Re: [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302051831.43eb0284@posting.google.com>-  k peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<3eY%9.140652$xv1.1729979@news.chello.at>...r< > I just noticed a small problem on my V7.4^WV7.3-1 systems. > D > $ SHOW CLUSTER shows V7.3 instead of V7.3-1 in the SOFTWARE field.  E Everything that $SHOW CLUSTER/CONTINUOUS displays under the 'SYSTEMS'oD class comes from the System Block (SB) data structures.  The displayD field 'SOFTWARE' is made up of two 4-byte fields, SB$T_SWTYPE (whichF contains "VMS " in this case) and SB$T_SWVERS (which contains "V7.3").D  Even if you do the command SET SOFTWARE/WIDTH=20 you won't see more< than these 8 bytes, because there's nothing more in the data; structures.  So why not just increase the width of the datap structures?s  ? The Systems Communications Architecture defines the set of data F structures that must be maintained by each node, and the format of all2 the messages that are exchanged between the nodes.  > A node learns about another node (by polling on CI or DSSI, orF multicast 'Hello' packets on a LAN) and sends an SCA START datagram toE try to form a virtual circuit with it, and that node responds with an A SCA STACK (STart ACKnowledge) datagram.  Both the START and STACKnE datagrams contain enough info about a node that the opposite node caneD build a System Block (SB), including the two 4-byte fields (software1 type and software version) that we're looking at.0  ; So to expand the width of the version field would require aV> modification to SCA to change both the data structures and the datagram formats.  Not easy.  B We can't just get rid of the "V" because that indicates the final,4 shipping version as opposed to a field-test release.  E Maybe we could use "V731" or something for V7.3-1.  But the case of a0A version like V7.2-1H1 is even worse.  And look out when we get tonD OpenVMS V10.0 -- maybe we'll have to proceed in hexadecimal ("VA.0")! or convert to RAD50 encoding. :-)q   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.073 ************************