0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 75      Contents: Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question  AMD delays again and struggling ( ANN: GRAB updated in HG/Process archives' ANN: IDEZR added to HG/Process archives  Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? RE: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS? Re: E*trade replacing VMS?	 Re: fonts , Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work, Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work, Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work2 Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???2 Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???2 Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment???  IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...  Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ?  Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ?  Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ?N Micro$oft: to patch & crash, or not to patch & crash, that is the question ...% Re: MSCP disk serving and SAN Storage % Re: MSCP disk serving and SAN Storage - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 % Problems with Java IVP (Java 1.1.8-5) # Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500   Re: Set Host and License Problem Re: TCPIP/UCX Routes database  Re: TCPIP/UCX Routes database  RE: TCPIP/UCX Routes database  Re: What is a Cluster ?  Re: What is a Cluster ?  Re: What is a Cluster ? ' Re: what limits the number of DECterms?  [OT];Re: E*trade replacing VMS? 7 Re: [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 06:49:23 GMT  From: rivie@Stench.no.domain Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question+ Message-ID: <Tzn0a.7132$tq4.2119@sccrnsc01>   M In article <b1r40b$15se2i$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: G > Can anyone here point me a any published information on the structure $ > an internals for RT-11 and RSTS/E?  A There was once a lengthy article about internals published in the ? RT-11 DECUS newsletter. I have a copy somewhere, but I doubt I  , could find it anything under several months. --  # Roger "recently moved _twice_" Ivie  rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 06:14:45 GMT  From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho)  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question2 Message-ID: <3e5e4e61.78254878@news.supernews.com>  2 On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 05:38:15 GMT, "Jerome H. Fine"( <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to> wrote:  ? >The TSX-PLUS Operating System by S&H was also able to run most G >RT-11 programs.  In addition, it was a multi-job version with features . >that appeared in VMS or so it was advertised.  F I think S&H still market TSX. They were my main competitor back in theE eighties and a fine bunch of blokes. We used to get together at DECUS  conferences.         -- Ian " Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 13:34:03 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)( Subject: AMD delays again and struggling= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302061334.6f392e63@posting.google.com>   ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7620   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:03:08 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) 1 Subject: ANN: GRAB updated in HG/Process archives 1 Message-ID: <3e43134c.132840654@news.process.com>   H Graham Burley's <burley@encompasserve.com> GRAB utility has been updated- to correct an accvio problem in highlighting.    http://www.process.com/openvms/   4 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/grab.zip9 http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/grab.zip 0 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/grab.zip5 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/grab.zip   ? And the usual mirrors.  Here is Graham's original announcement:   E >GRAB is a search utility for VMS, the main features of interest are:  > B > o Search using wildcard search strings (* and %) using /WILDCARDF > o Extract windows or sections by search strings using /CUT=(s1[,s2])4 > o Incremental processing using /CONTEXT and /LIMITD > o Scripting support using /SAVE to save information in DCL symbols > / >%HOBBYIST-?-CODE, coded by an OpenVMS hobbyist  >    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/A New Robert McCammon novel & site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:10:00 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) 0 Subject: ANN: IDEZR added to HG/Process archives1 Message-ID: <3e4313ea.132999192@news.process.com>   G Glenn Everhart's IDEZR package of various SCSI-related utilities is now F available from my VMS freeware archives.  Glenn mentioned this package& in a comp.os.vms post a few weeks ago:   http://groups.google.com/groups?q=goatley&start=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=2003&as_maxd=6&as_maxm=2&as_maxy=2003&selm=3E1F116B.7040305%40gce.com&rnum=23  K You can download the files from the Process Software OpenVMS Resource Page:    http://www.process.com/openvms/   " Or by using one of the URLs below:  5 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/idezr.zip : http://vms.process.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/idezr.zip1 ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/idezr.zip 6 http://www.tmk.com/ftp/vms-freeware/fileserv/idezr.zip  % Or from your favorite mirror archive.    Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ 8 goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/A New Robert McCammon novel & site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 12:48:14 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? 3 Message-ID: <DUvg8$z$+sYP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <3e42a424@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:N > None of the reasons 2 through 6 bear any reflection on the quality of VMS orJ > on whether or not it can and should do the job.  Those reasons, with theL > exception of 5, are all internal E*trade politics and will wind up being aN > problem even if they convert to all Linux.  Thus, once again, decisions thatH > should be made on the basis of engineering and logic are being made on+ > emotion and a the desire to be a lemming.  >   ; 	Part of it (lemming attitude) may have a lot to do with...   @ 	Instead of working through issues, you have fans of OS X, Y , ZB 	that have power/influence.  Some OSes are being marginalized even. 	as we speak, you can think of those - easily.  D 	Some of it is legit too.  Hiring managers may have a very difficultC 	time finding decent admins of OS X.  I see that myself.  Of course B 	a downturn helps free up talent.  One of the more powerful movers 	is:  B 	"We are having such a difficult time finding X admins, we need to@ 	go with OS Y.  The admins are a dime a dozen, Chubb is churning* 	them out like Powerball lottery tickets."  < 	There is the whole issue of quality, etc.  BUT you are able' 	to see a pool of faces to choose from.   ? 	Fishing for a few large mouth bass or going after the Sunfish? > 	The kids like the Sunfish as they are constantly biting, etc.  @ 	Sunfish mentality, no patience for bass fishermen these day and 	ages.  > 	Weak analogies in several directions but you get the picture.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:34:32 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? J Message-ID: <IxA0a.285828$pDv.160599@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:DUvg8$z$+sYP@eisner.encompasserve.org... 4 > In article <3e42a424@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman"- <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes: F > > None of the reasons 2 through 6 bear any reflection on the quality	 of VMS or C > > on whether or not it can and should do the job.  Those reasons,  with theF > > exception of 5, are all internal E*trade politics and will wind up being a A > > problem even if they convert to all Linux.  Thus, once again,  decisions thatB > > should be made on the basis of engineering and logic are being made on - > > emotion and a the desire to be a lemming.  > >  > < > Part of it (lemming attitude) may have a lot to do with... > A > Instead of working through issues, you have fans of OS X, Y , Z C > that have power/influence.  Some OSes are being marginalized even / > as we speak, you can think of those - easily.  > E > Some of it is legit too.  Hiring managers may have a very difficult D > time finding decent admins of OS X.  I see that myself.  Of courseC > a downturn helps free up talent.  One of the more powerful movers  > is:  > C > "We are having such a difficult time finding X admins, we need to A > go with OS Y.  The admins are a dime a dozen, Chubb is churning + > them out like Powerball lottery tickets."  > = > There is the whole issue of quality, etc.  BUT you are able ( > to see a pool of faces to choose from.  F Training a few of the trainable ones to know the O/S you are using, orF paying a few thousand more per year for a knowledgeable "new hire', isB invariably less expensive than uprooting your whole infrastructure   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:37:03 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? J Message-ID: <3AA0a.285836$pDv.255897@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  7 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message / news:b1uesr$16vi1l$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...  > F > Bingo! Welcome to being and living in human society.  Arguments thatC > are logicaly correct are not always persuasive.  Why do you think  > advertising works?    > Evidently is does work. That's why HP isn't doing any for VMS.      ? > p.s. how about a poster with some babe on it with the caption ( > "I love my man because he knows VMS" ?  E Replace the 'knows' with 'uses' and now you've got something. Too bad 1 HP will see to it that fewer and fewer people do.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 16:34:24 -0600 + From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? 3 Message-ID: <uBwJEvVlOG8V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <u8a0a.422$Gs7.37060642@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, "Jo Jo Potato" <vmsforme@yahoo.com> writes:  > C > "Carl Karcher" <karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu> wrote in message 1 > news:4FEB03.18524666@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu...  >>@ >> I hope this doesn't mean E*Trade is trading in VMS for linux. > = > Boy, you guys love to speculate based on the smallest clue, > > but in this case you are (mostly) right.  There is a project< > underway to "get off VMS".  What the target system(s) will> > likely be is Linux for the application(s) and Solaris/Sybase > for the databases. > @ > Why is E*Trade doing this? Lots of reasons, not all good ones. > F > 1) Because of cost cutting, the main cluster isn't disaster tolerant3 > anymore anyway so that advantage for VMS is gone.   ? But it is still a multi machine cluster with read/writes to the A data being done from all of the machines which can't be done with  the other two OSs mentioned.  ; > 2) The VMS (BASIC) code is old and convoluted and hard to ? > maintain.  Making changes without causing problems has become  > very difficult. 5 > 3) The VMS programmers (and their managers) are set 9 > in their ways and unwilling (unable?) to rework the VMS  > code to make it maintainable. 8 > 4) The VMS application build process is at best poorly< > documented and not repeatable.  The code library is a mess > and... (see number 3).  " This has nothing to do with VMS.    ? This argument was used at my current place of employment.  They < equated the bad code with VMS so when they decided that they@ would redo the code, this time they'd do it on a modern OS, with$ modern programming languages, etc.    = Five years later, the code has long since been rewritten, and A redeployed.  It is still spagetti code, with inconsistant builds, 9 and product problems.  But, now, instead of a dozen or so > programmers, a single system manager, and _all_ of development9 and production being done on a dozen or so boxes, we have > hundreds of systems, hundreds of programmers, and dozens of IT< people.  Instead of continuous uptimes in the years, we have@ daily scheduled production outages (mainly to sync data between  backup sites, etc).   8 > 5) VMS is perceived as expensive,  and the third party; > products maintenance is expensive. BEA tuxedo maintenance 7 > for VMS last year was more than $1 million.  Contrast 7 > this to the conversion of the web servers from Sun to  > Linux that saved tons of $.   3 Depends on how you do the TCO.  Ten machines with a > maintenance cost of $100K each, or two hundred machines with a- maintenace cost of $20K each?  $1M vs. $4M?     9 > 6) The CIO got snubbed by HP during the merger.  He was 2 > previously enjoying being on the Compaq customer3 > somethingorother advisory board and getting to go - > to Houston and play golf and eat fine meals   A It's good that the CIO is taking the best interest of the company  into consideration.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:50:38 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: E*trade replacing VMS? 0 Message-ID: <01C2CDEF.3B3A9CD0@sulfer.icius.com>  G Not really in response to any other post in this thread, but I think on G topic. Does anyone know how much effort (if any) HP has put into trying 
 to stop this?    Shane    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:45:58 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? K Message-ID: <G5F0a.584810$F2h1.478046@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C2CDEF.3B3A9CD0@sulfer.icius.com...F > Not really in response to any other post in this thread, but I think onB > topic. Does anyone know how much effort (if any) HP has put into trying > to stop this?     % Do you want to make book at any odds?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:07:29 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? ' Message-ID: <3E433101.2C500D9E@fsi.net>    John Smith wrote:  > 3 > "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message , > news:01C2CDEF.3B3A9CD0@sulfer.icius.com...H > > Not really in response to any other post in this thread, but I think > onD > > topic. Does anyone know how much effort (if any) HP has put into > trying > > to stop this?  > ' > Do you want to make book at any odds?    Can you say "sucker bait"?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:03:22 GMT7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)  Subject: Re: fonts) Message-ID: <H9wntM.1vqrnL@world.std.com>   E Is there any such thing as a converter from Windoze TTF to something   usable on VMS/Alpha?   -Mike    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:31:29 -0800' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work 8 Message-ID: <20030206113129.3cd9853f.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:38:12 -05003 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:  >  > VMS is not dead     It is true that VMS is not dead.3 It is also true that the Coelacanth is not extinct.   2 However, neither VMS nor the Coelacanth is exactly4 thriving these days.  They're both a lot bigger than8 they used to be and restricted to tiny niches.  The fish2 is only found in two (known) locations. You pretty7 much need to look in a hobbyist's home or a data center 2 if you hope to encounter the OS.  There aren't any8 Coelacanth's in the closest ocean to me and there aren't  any VMS machines in my building.  5 >, but the IT economy is not very vibrant right now.    9 VMS's fate has nothing to do with the current IT economy.    --   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 15:21:27 -0800 1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work < Message-ID: <857e9e41.0302061521.9ee1740@posting.google.com>  * This is a contracting job in Austin Texas.  B This is a job opening for UNIX TO VMS sent by Nic Clews in the UK L http://jobs.hallkinion.com/employee/searchJobs?a=search&loc=271&k=vms&d=1&sp   sue         j swallowbrook@aol.com (Swallowbrook) wrote in message news:<20030204210707.20627.00000150@mb-fb.aol.com>... > David (Dachitera), > M > Just to be clear, your arguing against something I never said.  My original  > post > simply said: > M > >> I'm especially interested in working with the extant VMS base which, I'm  > sure, 7 > will still be running for another 10 to even 20 years  > G > This is simply true and has little, really, to do with HP management.  > P > Here's a stat: 3 years after DEC (and it was DEC then) discontinued productionP > of PDP-11s, it was still a BILLION dollar business just for DEC, much less allN > the third party business, and that's back when a billion dollars could still > buy a cup of coffee. > I > As to the more global issues, like I said, "such is life", get over it.  >  > - g    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 19:44:37 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 5 Subject: Re: Frmr VMS eng. (Greg Robert) seeking work ' Message-ID: <3E430F85.92BB4070@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > , > This is a contracting job in Austin Texas. > C > This is a job opening for UNIX TO VMS sent by Nic Clews in the UK N > http://jobs.hallkinion.com/employee/searchJobs?a=search&loc=271&k=vms&d=1&sp  H You can find three more: select "New Search", all locations and keywords "vms or openvms or vax".  A Willing to travel? 2 in Seattle, WA, 1 in New York. The two(2) in # Seattle may be the same job. Dunno.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:19:14 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment??? 6 Message-ID: <b1ucg0$16iqdu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  J "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> schreef in bericht- news:Or0vo3cSBshP@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > Our data center is gradually getting warmer? Global warming from the ozoneL > layer has been ruled out :-) We're likely maxing out our air conditioning. > L > I've been ordered to come up with a list of heat load for all of our DEC /L > Compaq / HP equipment in our data center. I used to know where to get thatI > info: the "Systems and Options Catalog". That covers my old stuff, like  > 2100, 4100, and 8400.  > J > But where (URLs?) do I find information like that for DS / ES /GS seriesL > machines of all flavors, and for SW800 (fully loaded), ESA10000, EMA12000,J > EMA16000, ESL9000, TL891, SAN switches, terminal servers, and everythingA > else that doesn't still have a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on the box?  >  > Thanks for any help. > K Try the information on the labels on the back of the systems. Sometimes the H power is giben in Watts, sometimes in VoltAmperes and more often in AmpsH drawn at a given voltage. Power=Volts*Amps, for DC and AC if "effective" voltages and currents are used. B Of course these values are upper limits, but in many cases that is sufficient.    Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 14:13:16 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ; Subject: Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment??? 3 Message-ID: <oUaScVmvHdrI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <b1ucg0$16iqdu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > L > "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> schreef in bericht/ > news:Or0vo3cSBshP@eisner.encompasserve.org... M >> Our data center is gradually getting warmer? Global warming from the ozone M >> layer has been ruled out :-) We're likely maxing out our air conditioning.  >>M >> I've been ordered to come up with a list of heat load for all of our DEC / M >> Compaq / HP equipment in our data center. I used to know where to get that J >> info: the "Systems and Options Catalog". That covers my old stuff, like >> 2100, 4100, and 8400. >>K >> But where (URLs?) do I find information like that for DS / ES /GS series M >> machines of all flavors, and for SW800 (fully loaded), ESA10000, EMA12000, K >> EMA16000, ESL9000, TL891, SAN switches, terminal servers, and everything B >> else that doesn't still have a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on the box? >> >> Thanks for any help.  >>M > Try the information on the labels on the back of the systems. Sometimes the J > power is giben in Watts, sometimes in VoltAmperes and more often in AmpsJ > drawn at a given voltage. Power=Volts*Amps, for DC and AC if "effective"! > voltages and currents are used. D > Of course these values are upper limits, but in many cases that is
 > sufficient.  >   4 	Another tip that may work... find the QuickSpecs.    @ 	I had a thought the other day that something didn't look right.  > 	I believe the PDUs we have won't allow us to max out the rack 	so I started digging:    < 	Note this (you really are better visiting the page, I'm not* 	about to take the time to clean this up):  D http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10902_na/10902_na.html  ) Fully Loaded System Thermal (BTU-Hr) 1435   1415   1376   1357   1357   1357   A 	The fully loaded system BTUs is 1415 for the dl380 at 115 volts.   ( 	There is a link to a nice configurator:  = http://activeanswers.compaq.com/configurator/calc/DL380G2.xls    	Excel!   A 	Slick little tool, as it turns out... if you aren't fully loaded B 	you will be using less than the 1415.  However, fully loaded doesF 	not include 3 PCI cards so you will actually be using more than 1415!  F 	All this to say, you may be able to dig up the quickspecs.  You couldA 	use fully loaded numbers as a worst case, or some factor thereof  	(80%?).   				Rob       ------------------------------   Date: 7 FEB 2003 03:57:30 GMT 2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher); Subject: Re: Heat output for DEC / Compaq / HP equipment??? 3 Message-ID: <7FEB03.03573051@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>   : In a previous article, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:  L ->"Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> schreef in bericht/ ->news:Or0vo3cSBshP@eisner.encompasserve.org...   N ->> I've been ordered to come up with a list of heat load for all of our DEC /N ->> Compaq / HP equipment in our data center. I used to know where to get thatK ->> info: the "Systems and Options Catalog". That covers my old stuff, like  ->> 2100, 4100, and 8400.  ->> M ->Try the information on the labels on the back of the systems. Sometimes the J ->power is giben in Watts, sometimes in VoltAmperes and more often in AmpsJ ->drawn at a given voltage. Power=Volts*Amps, for DC and AC if "effective"! ->voltages and currents are used. D ->Of course these values are upper limits, but in many cases that is
 ->sufficient.   D It's also helpful to know the present heat load as a lower bound andH then size your cooling system up from there. If you go by published btusD or watts you might end up with an oversized cooling system (and haveC large temperature variations constantly).  To estimate the existing F load, get an electrician to measure the true power at the distribution panel.  E If you have experience and understand the safety issues of electrical H power systems (and have lot's of life insurance) you can approximate theH true power by using a clip-on ammeter to measure the current on each legG (phase) of the distribution panel. Multiply this value (in amps) by the G voltage (typically 120 in the US) and add together for each phase. That G will give you the "apparent power" in volt amps (VA). This would be the D figure you'd use to size a UPS. This is not yet power in watts untilC it's multiplied by the power factor. Unless you have a power factor H meter (or a true wattmeter) you can estimate this at 0.70. Then multiplyD by 3.413 btu's per watt (we will ignore the time component here) andB you'll have an estimate in btu's of the existing heat load you are# trying to cool. Size up from there.   F This is from memory - I'm sure the other 6431 electrical engineers out there will correct my errors.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 9 --              karcher.nomoredamnspam@waisman.wisc.edu      ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 13:35:30 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302061335.6341e20@posting.google.com>  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7641   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:35:04 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>- Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 0 Message-ID: <01C2CDED.0AF1FED0@sulfer.icius.com>  H Or, to be a little more fair, one IBM exec says AMD won't be a player inF the 64bit arena in 5 years, quite possibly putting his foot in it with his personal opinion.    Shane    -----Original Message-----6 From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]) Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:36 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...     ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7641   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:01:52 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ) Subject: Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ? ' Message-ID: <3E421670.C9F755FF@aaa.com>   3 OK. Thanks all for taking your time in this thread.   6 I must think about what to do with my VMS-port of this2 specific Python application. Either wait, or maybe5 rewrite it in, e.g., C. It's no big deal, I do *have* 2 it running on my Win2k box, but it sure would give6 a warm feeling if I also could run it on my (hobbyist) VMS box :-)   : I'll wait a couple of weeks and see if anything happens...  	 Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:24:52 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ? , Message-ID: <b1td5m$1a6c@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  C "Jean-Franois PIRONNE" <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message % news:3E4183FB.83D61795@laposte.net...   Q > The sourceforge version don't include all the necessary patches, patches of the 5 > core C files and patches of the Python (.py) files. Q > The problem is not to have a working version, I have one, the problem is how to I > have a working version without any update from the previous maintainer.   L My intention was (to attempt to) take the code straight from sourceforge andP hack on it until it works. If that involves going down some roads that have been gone down before, so be it.   O If you have some diffs that you feel can't be licenced under the Python licence K then I don't want to see them. It would defeat the purpose of the exercise.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 05:38:48 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> ) Subject: Re: Link to Python kit for VMS ? < Message-ID: <IDH0a.3517$jR3.1599880@news1.news.adelphia.net>   Jean-Franois PIRONNE wrote: E >>"Jean-Franois PIRONNE" <jf.pieronne@laposte.net> wrote in message ' >>news:3E4183FB.83D61795@laposte.net...  >> >>R >>>The sourceforge version don't include all the necessary patches, patches of the6 >>>core C files and patches of the Python (.py) files.R >>>The problem is not to have a working version, I have one, the problem is how toJ >>>have a working version without any update from the previous maintainer. >>N >>My intention was (to attempt to) take the code straight from sourceforge andR >>hack on it until it works. If that involves going down some roads that have been >>gone down before, so be it.  >>Q >>If you have some diffs that you feel can't be licenced under the Python licence M >>then I don't want to see them. It would defeat the purpose of the exercise.  >  > :-)))  > O > It is the opposite... Some of the patches currently include are the offending * > patches, for example into getbuildinfo.c > N > All the new patches are mine and are licensed under the Python license, this+ > include all the VMS extension describe in = > http://vmspython.dyndns.org/docs/python_vms/python_vms.html   C I tried to post some information about my build environment in the  G vmsnet.vms-posix group, but it has not shown up, and Mozilla is acting  % flakey like it is time to restart it.   E I just barely salvaged my edits from the message that I attempted to  I post.  Mozilla would not let me save it to a file or a draft.  Nor would  F it let me past it into a VMS Decterm window.  I think it used up some  process memory resource.  I I was finally able to paste it into another compose window and e-mail it   to myself to preserve it.   D I am out of time tonight, so I will try to find time again tomorrow  night to get this stuff posted.   G My ISP is having some problems with their news server, so the post may  8 show up.  Of course the same could happen with this one.  B I will only be posting the Python build details and files  in the  vmsnet.vms-posix newsgroup.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 13:38:21 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)W Subject: Micro$oft: to patch & crash, or not to patch & crash, that is the question ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302061338.32e4af83@posting.google.com>   ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7610   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:18:08 -0500 % From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@hp.com> . Subject: Re: MSCP disk serving and SAN Storage& Message-ID: <3E42C300.9B20F859@hp.com>  G And for the volumes that you don't want to use except in rare cases SET F DEVICE/NOAVA them during startup.  This will then require someone withE privs to do a SET DEVICE/AVA before they can be mounted.  This avoids & accidential usage by MOUNT or INIT ;*)   grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote:  > E > Wouldn't it be simpler and more convenient to simply mount the disk D > volumes (on the SAN) only on the nodes which you want to use them? > I > Then, you can get to the disks from the other nodes any time you really " > need to (by mounting the disks). > r > In article <a3c44af1.0302060931.11ee63c7@posting.google.com>, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) writes:	 > > Guys, F > >      I have a question.    I am putting together a new VMS clusterI > > using ES40 machines and Compaq StorageWorks components.  (Brocade SAN J > > Switches and HSG80 Controllers.)     I am running OpenVMS Version 7.3,I > > and the Cluster Interconnect is via GigaBit Ethernet (not through the  > > SAN Fabric)  > > C > >      Two of my ES40's are going to be Production, and 1 will be J > > Certification, however they will be in the same cluster (with separateB > > system disks).   I would like to keep my Cert and Prod StorageJ > > separate from each other as seen from the SAN (i.e. in separate zones)J > > but still 'occasionally' available to transfer code and data from Cert > > to Prod. > > D > >      My question is this "Are MSCP disks served to other clusterB > > members via the SAN Fabric, or via the Cluster Interconnect??. > > H > >      It seems to me that if it is via the interconnect, then neitherI > > the hosts nor the storage need to be in the same zones, however if it J > > is via the fabric then at least the hosts need to be in the same zone. > > 
 > > thanks > > 	 > > Dave.    --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 15:29:47 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) . Subject: Re: MSCP disk serving and SAN Storage< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302061529.f83cd96@posting.google.com>  u dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) wrote in message news:<a3c44af1.0302060931.11ee63c7@posting.google.com>...cA >      Two of my ES40's are going to be Production, and 1 will beEH > Certification, however they will be in the same cluster (with separate@ > system disks).   I would like to keep my Cert and Prod StorageH > separate from each other as seen from the SAN (i.e. in separate zones)H > but still 'occasionally' available to transfer code and data from Cert
 > to Prod.  C Another alternative to SAN zoning would be to use Selective StorageHA Presentation to only present a given set of storage to either thedE Production or Ceritification environment at a given time.  But that'sn: arguably even more prone to human error than using zoning.  ? Despite having storage in different SAN zones, just having both.C Production and Certification systems in the same cluster representsA
 some risk.  A If the Production storage is not MSCP-served to the CertificationI@ system, that would help reduce the risk.  But even with that, ifA Certification storage is MSCP-served to Production systems, there B exists some risk that Production systems might mistakenly access aE copy of the data (or executables) from the Certification side insteads- of the real production data (or executables).   C You could keep the Certification systems in a separate cluster, andoA still be able to occasionally transfer code from Certification tosD Production over the network (and occasional copies of the Production7 data over to Certification for testing on "real" data).s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 19:37:27 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E430DD7.59DE658C@fsi.net>n   Greg Cagle wrote:: >  > Bill Todd wrote:7 > > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagee- > > news:v429rfrcopgge1@corp.supernews.com...l >  > >>So what *is* your agenda?h > >o > >e5 > > It's been no secret, but you're kind of new here.t >  > <detailed discussion deleted>  > C > Thanks, Bill. I guess my next question, then, is what do you hope B > to accomplish at this point? The situation has changed since the
 > "Alphacide"s   It has? In what way? e  H We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible, ready-for-prime-timeG 64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS remainsp2 a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement.   So, tell me: what has changed?   > [snip]G > I don't necessarily think life is going to be wonderful under ItaniummG > either, but it's all I've got to work with so I plan to make the best ; > of it. I guess it could be worse - it could be Sparc 8^).o  D Hey - at least Sparc-64 has been shipping in quantity for some time,? while Itanic is still trying to get out of the starting blocks.c  D *I'd* like to see VMS ported to AMD's 64-bit CPUs. They seem to holdC more promise than Intel's loser that still can't get off the grounda after ten years.  7 Don't even get me started on the broken promises bit...   7 ...IMO, YMMV and in fact, probably will - considerably!y  A (Pardon my butting in at this point also. I felt certain commentst deserved to be challenged.)w   -- u David J. Dachtera6 dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:43:25 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <heqdnTxel8pnetyjXTWcow@metrocast.net>  3 "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in message.) news:v429rfrcopgge1@corp.supernews.com...  > Bill Todd wrote:H > > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in messageb, > > news:3e3ea8c5$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >vK > >>I also think that you look for joy/validation in the potential failures  ofI > >>Intel, Microsoft, IPF, HP, various former and current executives, and  > >>ultimately VMS.c > >e > >s9 > > Your misconceptions are your problem, Fred, not mine.c >n > So what *is* your agenda?T  1 It's been no secret, but you're kind of new here.   B After Compaq broke its repeated, public, unequivocal, and specificJ commitments to Alpha (as best chronicled in the famous Heil/Lipcon letter,I which itself was a response to concerns - in retrospect fully justified -tK about Alpha's future after the Alpha NT and Alpha Win64 efforts were cannedeJ in 1999) in June, 2001, I decided not to let them paper over the deed withL lies - about Alpha's potential to retain performance leadership over Itanic,H about Alpha's profitability (i.e., the claim that Alpha cost too much toL develop profitably - even given their complete lack of support for marketingK the platform, which of course was another relevant issue on its own), about.H whose idea it was to kill Alpha (the original statements were crafted toK make it appear that it was the Alpha team itself who came up with the idea,8H whereas in fact it came from the somewhat disaffected server team (afterI they'd come up with a less-than-stellar implementation for the GS series,oE the chip team made sure that EV7 required nothing more from them thanmI putting systems together like Legos) - and likely at the prompting of themC CTO's office (since later Robison stated that he and Curly had beenrJ considering Alpha's demise ever since he came on board in 1999), and aboutI the 'unbelievably positive' response (according to Curly) their customerstI had to the announcement (enhanced by the willingness of parts of DECUS topF report the enthusiasm of their members without having seen any need toH consult them first).  For a more comprehensive account of all the above,* complete with citations and documents, see9 http://www.tru64.org/stories.php?story=01/09/06/4674257 .   D In other words, I felt that slimeballs of that calibre deserved fullL illumination.  I also thought that with sufficient public scrutiny there wasF a chance that Curly would get the boot (spotlighting the affect of theI Alphacide on revenue would help that) and be replaced with someone at therF very least more interested in reinvigorating VMS (which was not in theL healthiest of shape when the Alphacide dealt it a major additional blow) andI possibly revive the Alpha effort (EV8 wouldn't have appeared on schedule,hI but might have been far enough along to be brought to market a year or sot& later by the remains of the EV7 team).  K Unfortunately, the acquisition by HP took the attention away from Alpha andoC the pressure off Curly.  But since most of the culprits remained inwA positions of authority, and since neither Compaq nor HP ever even G acknowledged, let alone made any attempt (not to mention any *material*aK attempt) to atone for, any of the above concerns, they remain as applicablehJ today as they were back then in terms of evaluating the level of trust oneJ should accord to cHumPaq in any matters relating to proprietary technologyJ that they clearly would rather get rid of - Carly and Curly being two peas on a pod on that score.r  H Now, just as some DECUS honchos were willing to carry Compaq's water forH them in this matter, so a few comp.os.vms regulars (some employees, someC customers) were willing to stand up to defend Compaq's behavior andnL denigrate any attempts to expose it for what it clearly was (at least if youG went to the effort to do any research - e.g., into quarterly and yearlycH financial reports of where the revenue and profit came from and what wasK expended to generate it).  So the atmosphere became, shall we say, somewhatmH polarized for a while (as a Google stroll through the c.o.v. archives of that period will demonstrate).  I I always maintained that I would quiet down as long as cHumPaq apologistsDL shut off their spin/garbage, and eventually they more or less gave up tryingL to palm it off.  But whenever someone pops up to announce how wonderful lifeB is going to be under Itanic, then I remain there to bring a bit ofL objectivity to the discussion:  Itanic2 may no longer be the complete fiascoI that Merced was, but (for reasons I don't think need repeating now, sincepL *they've* been restated often and recently) it's still no decent replacementL for Alpha (even if one ignores the per-customer pain involved in porting, if
 and when).  K I don't think that corporations should be allowed to get away with the kindeK of behavior Compaq displayed two years ago, without being called to accounthD until such time as the account is properly settled (i.e., not just aI one-time slap on the wrist, since there's plenty of evidence that today'ssL corporations just consider such penalties part of the cost of doing businessG and ignore them).  When cHumPaq publicly owns up to its transgressions, I apologizes, and makes *material* efforts to set things right (one of them J being well-funded, aggressive, long-term development and marketing effortsL for VMS to try to repair the damage it sustained), I'll breathe a major sigh. of relief and get back to things I enjoy more.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 02:48:39 GMTf# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31K Message-ID: <b8F0a.584840$F2h1.173076@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E430DD7.59DE658C@fsi.net...  > Greg Cagle wrote:3 > >7 > > Bill Todd wrote:9 > > > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messageS/ > > > news:v429rfrcopgge1@corp.supernews.com...l > >s > > >>So what *is* your agenda?G > > >" > > >l7 > > > It's been no secret, but you're kind of new here.- > >.! > > <detailed discussion deleted>l > >tE > > Thanks, Bill. I guess my next question, then, is what do you hoperD > > to accomplish at this point? The situation has changed since the > > "Alphacide"  >d > It has? In what way? >'5 > We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible,i ready-for-prime-timeA > 64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS  remainss4 > a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement. >w  > So, tell me: what has changed? >o
 > > [snip]A > > I don't necessarily think life is going to be wonderful under  ItaniumrD > > either, but it's all I've got to work with so I plan to make the best= > > of it. I guess it could be worse - it could be Sparc 8^).e >8F > Hey - at least Sparc-64 has been shipping in quantity for some time,A > while Itanic is still trying to get out of the starting blocks.n >sF > *I'd* like to see VMS ported to AMD's 64-bit CPUs. They seem to holdE > more promise than Intel's loser that still can't get off the groundu > after ten years.    F HP will get out of the server business entirely and sell only printers> before they do anything to help VMS get sold to new customers. Probability factor = 0.90m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 18:55:00 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <v467vrilbla39@corp.supernews.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Greg Cagle wrote:v  C >>Thanks, Bill. I guess my next question, then, is what do you hopehB >>to accomplish at this point? The situation has changed since the
 >>"Alphacide"w >  >  > It has? In what way? . > J > We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible, ready-for-prime-timeI > 64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS remains)4 > a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement. >   > So, tell me: what has changed?  / Uhh, there was this merger thing that happened.    >>[snip]G >>I don't necessarily think life is going to be wonderful under ItaniumaG >>either, but it's all I've got to work with so I plan to make the bestn; >>of it. I guess it could be worse - it could be Sparc 8^).e >  > F > Hey - at least Sparc-64 has been shipping in quantity for some time,A > while Itanic is still trying to get out of the starting blocks.r  E If your point is that Sparc has application availability and customer C acceptance, then I agree. That's kind of how it is with establishedaB architectures vs. new ones - it takes a while to get things going,E and often there is a chicken/egg problem with getting people to port.nE I remember what it was like when Sparc was trying to get out of *its*sA starting blocks, and when PA-RISC was, and when SGI was trying tosH get apps on MIPS, and, well, I could go on. This is really no different," except that the stakes are higher.  E Yeah, Itanium is late. I really wish I'd had it in my hands last yearsF at this time. But it's still faster than Sparc. And have you looked at0 Sun's history of chip delays? They're no better.  F > *I'd* like to see VMS ported to AMD's 64-bit CPUs. They seem to holdE > more promise than Intel's loser that still can't get off the ground  > after ten years.  # We'll have to disagree on that one.a  9 > Don't even get me started on the broken promises bit...a  A Been there myself plenty of times, on lots of platforms. I didn'tg? address that issue because I don't have enough data to comment,  at least in this case.  9 > ...IMO, YMMV and in fact, probably will - considerably!e > C > (Pardon my butting in at this point also. I felt certain commentsh > deserved to be challenged.)   $ Go ahead - butt in all you want 8^). -- h
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 22:06:00 -0600D1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E4330A8.A49CCC4A@fsi.net>e   Greg Cagle wrote:  >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Greg Cagle wrote:- > E > >>Thanks, Bill. I guess my next question, then, is what do you hopemD > >>to accomplish at this point? The situation has changed since the > >>"Alphacide"$ > >4 > >@ > > It has? In what way? > >sL > > We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible, ready-for-prime-timeK > > 64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS remainss6 > > a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement. > >e" > > So, tell me: what has changed? > 1 > Uhh, there was this merger thing that happened.n   ...and your point is ... ?   -- - David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systems2 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 23:47:42 -0400S0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <3E432C38.33145A74@vl.videotron.ca>I   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible, ready-for-prime-timeI > 64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS remains 4 > a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement.   There are two issues here.  L Compaq/HP lied in order to justify their murder of Alpha. They should not be3 allowed to get away, especially in post-ENRON days.0  < Had the press realised just how much Capellas has skewed theL statistics/financials to justify donating the jewels to Intel, he would haveJ been labeled as someone not very honest. Do you really think that WorldcomM would have hired him ? The asshole got away with all the damage he caused and1 that is not right,    J Secondly, None of Intel's products were the right products to put all yourJ eggs into. The 8086 might have been dropped in favour of the IA64.  On theL other hand, as soon as Intel starrted to delay IA64 over and over again, andM with Merced being a joke at a time when AMD was announcing a 64 bit 8086, andtN with Intel later giving up on mass produced IA64 (desktop), now, the future of; IA64 is the onle that is far more cloudy than that of 8086.e  M Therefore, HP/Compaq killed Alpha for which it had full control, in favour ofnJ IA64 for which it doesn't have full control and whose future is uncertain.  B Compaq had access to the Digital engineers who had been so good atJ demonstrating that the IA64 *architecture* was flawed and would always lagL other because of its philosophy. Yet, Compaq chose to gnore this, claim thatH IA64 was the best technological choice in the world and committed to it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:15:17 -0800s& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <v46g6rtakf7j44@corp.supernews.com>R   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Greg Cagle wrote:s >  >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >>>Greg Cagle wrote: >>E >>>>Thanks, Bill. I guess my next question, then, is what do you hopeND >>>>to accomplish at this point? The situation has changed since the >>>>"Alphacide"a >>>c >>>= >>>It has? In what way?  >>> K >>>We still don't have a competitive, mass-producible, ready-for-prime-time0J >>>64-bit replacement for Alpha. So, in the eyes of the world, VMS remains5 >>>a dead-end proposition. Period - end of statement.i >>> ! >>>So, tell me: what has changed?m >>1 >>Uhh, there was this merger thing that happened.a >  >  > ...and your point is ... ?  <  From your standpoint, there probably isn't one. Never mind. -- u
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 18:56:19 -0800t, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin). Subject: Problems with Java IVP (Java 1.1.8-5)< Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0302061856.de51932@posting.google.com>  A I installed the latest Java (1.1.8-5) from the VMS 7.3 CDROM. ThetD install seemd to go OK but I then ran the IVP (java$ivp.com) and got the following error:  # Test compilation of MyWorld.java... ! error: Can't write: MyWorld.classv 1 errorh) Test compilation of MyWorld.java failed !:  ? I have read through all the release notes, etc. and didn't find2% anything. Does anyone have any ideas?:  E Also, I don't know if this is related, but the Oracle 9i installationpB is failing as well. After selecting the Standard Edition, a windowC keeps popping up saying "There was an error during loading library:  areasQueries".  B This error comes up about 15 or so times and then the install goes back to the first window.e  E Man, I miss the old days od VMSINSTAL and PRODUCT INSTALL! We used tom: get real error messages and be able to solve the problems.   Thanks.w Bill McLaughlinn   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 14:43:38 -0600o+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) , Subject: Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 5003 Message-ID: <$jbvuA9Gv7TB@eisner.encompasserve.org>C  l In article <e9cbc4f2.0302052114.2572665e@posting.google.com>, mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:F > I have a BA364 enclosure connected to an AlphaStation 500/266 (model> > PB540-A9). According to the documentation, the built-in SCSIF > controller is "fast wide SCSI-2". However, when I do a "show dev" atF > the SRM prompt, the controller shows up as SCSI ID 7. When I set theH > fourth ID switch on any drive position, it is ignored-- only the first% > three switches seem to do anything.n  G SCSI ID 7 is probably the ID of the controller inside the AlphaStation.sF The personality module that slides into the shelf and accepts the SCSIG cable from the controller on the Alpha doesn't have an ID.  If you have D switch positions 1, 2, and 3 ON then the devices in the shelf should! show up as SCSI IDs 8 through 13.m   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:08:07 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>) Subject: Re: Set Host and License Problemt6 Message-ID: <b1ubqt$174apk$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  : "Michael Thompson" <m_thompson@ids.net> schreef in bericht) news:v44nd71rqt0v35@corp.supernews.com...oH > I have a VAX 3600 and a VAX 3560 connected with DECnet (thanks to help from aJ > previous posting). I can Set Host on the 3600 and login to the 3560 just fine. H > If I try to Set Host from the 3560 to the 3600 the console on the 3600 displays@ > a message that says that there is no active license available. >aJ > I have OpenVMS 7.2 and a full set of Hobbyist licenses installed on bothK > machines. The results of a Show License looks identical on both machines.@ >. > How do I debug this problem? >a >wH Try SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE since it may be that the 3600 requires different licenses than the 3560.g> The SHOW LICENSE command will tell you which PAK's are active.J You did not tell us which license was not available: VAX-VMS, or DVNETRTG?K If the 3560 is a VAXstation then it requires a VMS D license while the 3600h; needs an A license (or even a B license if it is a server).u   Hans   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:14:12 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>& Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Routes database6 Message-ID: <b1uc6k$16nbi5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  6 "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> schreef in bericht3 news:JVs0a.5115$CF1.911666@news20.bellglobal.com...,4 > Can anyone tell me how a VMS system using DEC's IP5 > stack, with neither RouteD nor GateD enabled learnst	 > routes?o >h: > It seems that (and I've seen it with various UCX 4.* and8 > TCP/IP 5.0-* systems) that from time to time erroneous: > routes are 'automatically' entered into the VMS system's9 > routes database, and never seem to get stale (and hence*0 > thrown away).  The only remedy is to perform a" > TCPIP> set noroute <destination> > = > This of course can be difficult to perform if attempting tot: > connect from a node in the above <destination>'s subnet. > ; > Also, although I can't swear to it, I've seen (again bothi0 > VMS 6.*/UCX 4.* and VMS 7.2-*/TCPIP 5.0*) that1 > when a VMS node refuses to answer PING attemptsN6 > from outside it's own subnet, often the remedy is to8 > start routing (default=RouteD).  After doing this, the > node begins to respond.q >k) > Any others seen this type of behaviour?d >sI No, but failure to return a ping may indicate that the default gateway isf! either not set or improperly set. J Improper means: no address at all, the nodes own address, or an IP address in another IP network.; The default gateway on one of my systems is set as follows:l   $ tcpip sho route /fulli     DYNAMICf     Type Destination Gateway    . AN * 0.0.0.0 * 192.168.44.1 helium.vlems.thuis  . AH * 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST * 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST  ) AN * 192.168.44.0/24 * 192.168.44.2 xenon   , AH * 192.168.44.2 xenon * 192.168.44.2 xenon   $e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 19:57:58 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Routes database5 Message-ID: <a7z0a.170531$xv1.2140528@news.chello.at>:  e In article <JVs0a.5115$CF1.911666@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> writes: 3 >Can anyone tell me how a VMS system using DEC's IPl4 >stack, with neither RouteD nor GateD enabled learns >routes?   Yes. ICMP Redirects.  9 >It seems that (and I've seen it with various UCX 4.* ande7 >TCP/IP 5.0-* systems) that from time to time erroneous 9 >routes are 'automatically' entered into the VMS system's 8 >routes database, and never seem to get stale (and hence/ >thrown away).  The only remedy is to perform ak! >TCPIP> set noroute <destination>   ! For me the problem seems twofold. I One problem is some device sending illegal routes with eg. ICMP redirectstE (could be a router or other node pretending to be a router with wrong G subnet mask) and the other problem UCX/TCPIP not timing out dynamicallyr learned information.  < >This of course can be difficult to perform if attempting to9 >connect from a node in the above <destination>'s subnet.  >a: >Also, although I can't swear to it, I've seen (again both/ >VMS 6.*/UCX 4.* and VMS 7.2-*/TCPIP 5.0*) thatt0 >when a VMS node refuses to answer PING attempts5 >from outside it's own subnet, often the remedy is toe7 >start routing (default=RouteD).  After doing this, ther >node begins to respond.  H How about using a currect version of TCPIP (V5.3 ECO 1) where possible ?  ( >Any others seen this type of behaviour?   Yes. Unfortunately. Years ago.B But as I'm using normally TCPware, I cant't comment if it is still8 the case with the last TCPIP versions and/or ECO levels.  < Also, Sniff around and look who's sending wrong redirects... --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERa% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:27:12 -0500 * From: "Stewart, Bill" <wjs-corp@Kaman.com>& Subject: RE: TCPIP/UCX Routes database< Message-ID: <1E4B06029E11D211B47C0000F8207F4D01B9F67A@ESKC2>  K Try enabling gated. We were getting the same problem.  It seems that one oflJ the routers here would redirect themachine to the internet gateway when itL could not reach the intended machine.  The resulting route would not go awayI unless it was deleted, or the machine was rebooted. Gated gets rid of thec problem.   Bill Stewart Systems Manager- Kaman Corporation- (860) 243-7058   ->-----Original Message-----) ->From: Hans Vlems [mailto:hvlems@iae.nl]j+ ->Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:14 PMg ->To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com4( ->Subject: Re: TCPIP/UCX Routes database -> -> ->8 ->"Scott Greig" <jsgreig@geminaq.com> schreef in bericht5 ->news:JVs0a.5115$CF1.911666@news20.bellglobal.com...t6 ->> Can anyone tell me how a VMS system using DEC's IP7 ->> stack, with neither RouteD nor GateD enabled learns  ->> routes?i ->>m< ->> It seems that (and I've seen it with various UCX 4.* and: ->> TCP/IP 5.0-* systems) that from time to time erroneous< ->> routes are 'automatically' entered into the VMS system's; ->> routes database, and never seem to get stale (and hence 2 ->> thrown away).  The only remedy is to perform a$ ->> TCPIP> set noroute <destination> ->>e? ->> This of course can be difficult to perform if attempting to < ->> connect from a node in the above <destination>'s subnet. ->> = ->> Also, although I can't swear to it, I've seen (again bothm2 ->> VMS 6.*/UCX 4.* and VMS 7.2-*/TCPIP 5.0*) that3 ->> when a VMS node refuses to answer PING attemptsl8 ->> from outside it's own subnet, often the remedy is to: ->> start routing (default=RouteD).  After doing this, the ->> node begins to respond.e ->>r+ ->> Any others seen this type of behaviour?a ->> 9 ->No, but failure to return a ping may indicate that the f ->default gateway is# ->either not set or improperly set. ? ->Improper means: no address at all, the nodes own address, or   ->an IP address- ->in another IP network.= ->The default gateway on one of my systems is set as follows:" -> ->$ tcpip sho route /fullR -> ->	 ->DYNAMICi -> -> ->Type Destination Gateway -> ->0 ->AN * 0.0.0.0 * 192.168.44.1 helium.vlems.thuis ->0 ->AH * 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST * 127.0.0.1 LOCALHOST ->+ ->AN * 192.168.44.0/24 * 192.168.44.2 xenono ->. ->AH * 192.168.44.2 xenon * 192.168.44.2 xenon -> ->$  ->   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 22:16:29 -0000t4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>  Subject: Re: What is a Cluster ?6 Message-ID: <20030206221629.17377.qmail@gacracker.org>  @ On 6 Feb 2003, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com (Dave Baxter) wrote:< >"labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> wrote in message- >news:<puq0a.578$IG2.386@news.cpqcorp.net>...o- >> "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrotel >> >J >> > Call me a bigot, call me anything you like, but I really get offended= >> > when other people describe what they think is a cluster.- >> -: >> You can definitely add me to the list of the bigots :-) >> b	 >> Grardw >lG >The really sad part is that these people think that what 'they' call aa" >cluster is "Really Cutting Edge."   It is.  > Personally I prefer to not end up bleeding all over the place.     Doc. -- e: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nets   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:13:03 -06002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>  Subject: Re: What is a Cluster ?/ Message-ID: <v46jjmfe3jpif7@corp.supernews.com>h  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1B14D.33378782@SendSpamHere.ORG...A > In article <BA67A35C.3BAD%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron   <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:D > >On 2/6/03 2:07 AM, in article puq0a.578$IG2.386@news.cpqcorp.net,	 "labadie" * > ><en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >t > >> <snip> >.> ===>>>>>> If you can't implement to the definition, change the definition.<<<<<<<<=== > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >e6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >c  I This reminds me of a quote by some female Microsoft spokesperson who saideK some years back that Microsoft obeys industry "standards" and if they don'teK like them, they change them. This was in one of the PC related weekly tradesF magazines; sorry but I can't remember her name or which publication. IJ remember laughing until my sides hurt and tears ran down my face. I showedI the arcticle to my VP of Information Technology - and he didn't get why I 
 was laughing.r   Stuart Johnson   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:33:40 -06002 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>  Subject: Re: What is a Cluster ?/ Message-ID: <v46kqar517jkac@corp.supernews.com>   = "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> wrote in messageo) news:v46jjmfe3jpif7@corp.supernews.com...g >m >rK > This reminds me of a quote by some female Microsoft spokesperson who saideG > some years back that Microsoft obeys industry "standards" and if theye don'tnG > like them, they change them. This was in one of the PC related weeklyo tradesH > magazines; sorry but I can't remember her name or which publication. IL > remember laughing until my sides hurt and tears ran down my face. I showedK > the arcticle to my VP of Information Technology - and he didn't get why I- > was laughing.2 >3 > Stuart Johnson >o >e  F Answering my own post, sorry. The article was in InfoWorld or PC Week.   Stuart Johnson   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Feb 2003 23:27 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)g0 Subject: Re: what limits the number of DECterms?, Message-ID: <6FEB200323275197@gerg.tamu.edu>  = Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes...aI }> I don't have an answer for you though (other than the obvious that itsfE }> limited by number of event flags).  I've wondered the same myself.N }  }How can they be increased?u  A Probably the only way is to submit some sort of change request tom VMS engineering.  @ Then in some future version of VMS they increase each event flag? cluster size from the current 32 flags to 64 flags (so the maske@ size gets increased from 32 bits to 64 bits). This would seem toC be a logical thing to do since VMS mostly runs on 64 bit processorsr? these days and will only get more so in the future. It seems tou@ me to be a waste of register bits to have such things be only 32
 bits in size.o   --- Carl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:08:39 +05304 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com>( Subject: [OT];Re: E*trade replacing VMS?I Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260E235F6@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>    HiL In LinuxWorld.com, Paul Murphy offers Sun a modest proposal to help it raise  G it's shares.  In the article, he calls Sun, "a company with a large and  loyal C customer base, great products and some of the best technical peoples anywhere," )H and then tries to explain why a share that was worth around $65 in Sept. 2000 is E now selling at $3.44 and in serious danger of heading for penny-stockh territory?      ! How Sun Can Pull Out Of Its Slumpe$ LinuxWorld.com, 1/29/03, Paul Murphy= <http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2003/0129.sun_p.html>h  H I recall a discussion I once had with my friend who was selling computerL systems. IBM was known to have harmonious relationships with its vendors andI intervene to resolve any complications that arose when 2 vendors proposedtI IBM solutions to the same client.  Sun would treat distributors like s**ttI and HP, well, dealing with HP needed a person having remarkable politicaliJ and diplomatic wits. You could never get the true price for HP servers. HPI would reveal different prices to diff vendors and the vendors were alwaysCF unsure while proposing costs. Compaq I guess did not want to be in theL picture (enterprise class). IBM was also known to match any proposal (to itsH vendors) offered by any rivals (SUN...). This was in India about 2 yearsJ ago. Things might have changed for the better at HP & Sun. But impressions last long.    F I work for a client that is a Healthcare provider in the US. We do theB application support and IBM does the serve side support. Given theG uncertainty surrounding VMS sometime back, they have decided to migratelI *NOT* to HP-UX (only dogs are loyal to bad masters) or SUN but IBM. (With J the server-support already in their hands what else could you expect but aI 'value proposition'?). IBM makes its hardware, OS, applications and has arH Global services company for application support and maintenance. And you5 don't need to move your COBOL programs to JAVA (SUN).f  K Given the fact that Gestner has been in the IT industry with IBM for merely E 10 years (as compared to Carly & Scott), I'd say he made a remarkabletH turn-around. (He was with RJR Nabisco before & was hesitant to accept an1 offer from IBM since he felt he wasn't a techie).s  	 Cheers...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:59:19 GMTg. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)@ Subject: Re: [VMS 7.3-1] SHOW CLUSTER shows wrong version number5 Message-ID: <rBo0a.159864$xv1.1989632@news.chello.at>i  q In article <cf15391e.0302051831.43eb0284@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:d< >So to expand the width of the version field would require a? >modification to SCA to change both the data structures and the- >datagram formats.  Not easy.  >eC >We can't just get rid of the "V" because that indicates the final,.5 >shipping version as opposed to a field-test release.  >FF >Maybe we could use "V731" or something for V7.3-1.  But the case of aB >version like V7.2-1H1 is even worse.  And look out when we get toE >OpenVMS V10.0 -- maybe we'll have to proceed in hexadecimal ("VA.0") " >or convert to RAD50 encoding. :-)  N So, for this and all other reasons above, I'd say START WITH THE CHANGES SOON." VMS V10.0 is not that far away ;-)   -- u Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistt E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.075 ************************