0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 08 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 78      Contents: Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: a PDP-11 question  Re: Alpha 7.3 kits Re: Columbia Re: E*trade replacing VMS?; Re: How to check - write cache enabled/disabled of a device + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages $ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...6 Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog!: Re: Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog!; Looking for VMS Developers for Contract/Freelance Positions - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31  Re: Oracle 9i and ODS-5  PIAO device error  Re: PIAO device error  PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.3 # Re: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.3 # RE: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.3 ) Re: Problems with Java IVP (Java 1.1.8-5)  Sending uppercase in RSH Re: Sending uppercase in RSH4 SIMH/VAX 2.10-2 Win32 Binaries with Ethernet Support2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ... Sun Ships Solaris 9 For Intel  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  Re: VMS source listings ?  RE: VMS source listings ? ' Re: what limits the number of DECterms? ' Re: what limits the number of DECterms?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:57:38 GMT From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question) Message-ID: <H9y742.1un213@world.std.com>   ! ian@hammo.com (paramucho) writes:   G >I think S&H still market TSX. They were my main competitor back in the F >eighties and a fine bunch of blokes. We used to get together at DECUS
 >conferences.   3 I think they market some sort of TSX for PCs now...   8 I remember those days... and some of the parties we had.  1 I miss DECUS and the people I met there... <sigh>    					Megan Gentry  					Former RT-11 Developer   H +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+H | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | email: mbg at world.std.com         |H |                                |                                     |H | "this space                    |             (s/ at /@/)             |I |  unavoidably left blank"       | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |  H |                                | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |H |                  (DEC '77-'98) |  required." - mbg            KB1FCA |H +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 13:15:46 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question6 Message-ID: <b22vu1$17rgqc$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  - In article <87n0l8e91r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, / 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: , > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >> Can anyone here point me a any published information on the/ >> structure an internals for RT-11 and RSTS/E?  > : > Not what you are asking for I know, but I have a copy of+ > the RSX internals `brown book' somewhere.  >   , Not what I was asking for at the moment. :-)  B It would be nice to clone RSX as well, but likely to be a bit moreA difficult.  I figure the correct order would be to do RT-11 first   RST second and then look at RSX.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 13:17:03 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question6 Message-ID: <b2300f$17rgqc$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  6 In article <b22vu1$17rgqc$1@id-135708.news.dfncis.de>,+ 	bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: / > In article <87n0l8e91r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, 1 > 	Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: - >> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  >>  ? >>> Can anyone here point me a any published information on the 0 >>> structure an internals for RT-11 and RSTS/E? >>  ; >> Not what you are asking for I know, but I have a copy of , >> the RSX internals `brown book' somewhere. >>   > . > Not what I was asking for at the moment. :-) > D > It would be nice to clone RSX as well, but likely to be a bit moreC > difficult.  I figure the correct order would be to do RT-11 first " > RST second and then look at RSX.  5 Ooops.  Fumble fingers strikes again.  Make that RSX.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 19:43:55 +0100A From: Christian Corti <Christian.Corti@studserv.uni-stuttgart.de>  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question) Message-ID: <bpu02b.aq.ln@news.online.de>     paramucho <ian@hammo.com> wrote:H > I think S&H still market TSX. They were my main competitor back in the   S&H = Siemens & Halske ? ;-)  	 Christian    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 21:41:38 GMT  From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho)  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question3 Message-ID: <3e65267a.133584083@news.supernews.com>   A On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:57:38 GMT, mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote:   " >ian@hammo.com (paramucho) writes: > H >>I think S&H still market TSX. They were my main competitor back in theG >>eighties and a fine bunch of blokes. We used to get together at DECUS  >>conferences. > 4 >I think they market some sort of TSX for PCs now...  E PDP-11 sales were drying up. The DEC RT-11 group kept talking about a D 32-bit version. I looked at the proposition for our product and madeE some (bootable) sketchs and then decided that there wasn't a market.    A S&H went ahead and built TSX-32 in a real software rage of energy > IIRC. It was well built. I think the DIBOL-compatible folk had0 contracted upgrades of their widespread product.  A Anyway, last I saw at their website they seem to have found a web  server niche with the product.  = They brought out another product as well but that ended up in = litigation and I think they ended up withdrawing the product.     9 >I remember those days... and some of the parties we had.  > 2 >I miss DECUS and the people I met there... <sigh>  F Often five times a year for me! Germany, Switzerland, U.K., Europe and one of the U.S. symposia.      -- Ian " Impressive If Haughty - Q Magazine   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:30:54 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell> Subject: Re: Alpha 7.3 kits 8 Message-ID: <3rc84vgp0550cab5uj5ih0hqva7lf5gl1u@4ax.com>  C On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:57:46 -0800, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>  wrote:   >jasper wrote:4 >> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote: >>  E >>> The hobby kits for OpenVMS/Alpha 7.3 are announced, are they not?  >  >No. > 0 >> They have sold out of the Alpha kits already. >  >No. > D >> I sent an email to Montagar yesterday asking if they can't allow - >> pre-payment and continue to accept orders.  > 2 > From http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html > E >> NOTICE: We have started getting lots more orders for OpenVMS Alpha G >> Hobbyist Kits than normal. It appears that many people believed that G >> both VAX and Alpha Kits have been remastered. Only the VAX Kits have G >> been remastered. In order to prevent confusion, we will no longer be H >> taking orders for the OpenVMS Alpha Hobbyist Kit until they have been >> remastered.   That's good news.     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 12:42:04 -0600 ; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <3RVkhvpNehle@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <CVa0a.277916$pDv.45783@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: B > As to a 'rescue' launch of the next available shuttle, even withE > superhuman effort and cutting all normal safety requirements to the H > bone, it's doubtful that it could have gotten off the ground for aboutC > 2 weeks. That said, as long as there was sufficient air available E > on-board Columbia and the CO2 scrubbers continued to work, the crew H > could have survived until a rescue flight arrived. There have been allF > too many demonstrations throughout human history that the human bodyG > can survive significant lack of food and fresh water for surprisingly E > long periods, and fortunately or unfortunately - depending on one's H > point of view - the shuttle crew would have been able to rely on thoseC > facts of human history. They wouldn't have been in great physical ! > shape, but they would be alive.   J I've seen a lot of misinformation in several newsgroups concerning shuttleJ details. I've followed the space program a little closer than most. A good= friend made 4 flights on the shuttle between 1991 and 1998...   K STS-107 was one of the longest shuttle missions ever. They always plan them J with a few days of spare supplies, in case they have to scrub a landing or= two. One and even 2 day delays are normal, and not a concern.   F But there is NO way a 16 day mission could have been stretched out forI another 2 weeks, 3 weeks, or whatever while they tried to launch a rescue  shuttle flight.   K And as I believe has been covered here, no way their fuel supply could have @ changed the orbit enough to get them to the ISS to await rescue.  I One way or another, the had to come down. Or die when their O2 supply ran  out.  1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B 	Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 16:22:44 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)# Subject: Re: E*trade replacing VMS? 6 Message-ID: <b23ask$1862qh$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  - In article <b21bq3$ksj$1@shell.monmouth.com>, : 	pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes:8 > In article <b1tu08$16o93o$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,+ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:  >>G >>I don't disagree with the concept.  I just still can't believe anyone B >>ever considered taking linux seriously.  Especially when all theE >>functionality it offers has been around in much better packages for F >>almost as long as linux has been around.  Not all unix flavors, evenF >>free ones, are the products of non-professional programmer wannabes. >>   > A > Sure... but the price performance on it blows the doors off the 3 > equivalent Solaris/SCO[Xenix|Unixware]/HP-UX box.   A But it doesn't blow the doors off of the price/performance of the B equivalent {Net|Open|Free}BSD which has the benefit of having beenC written by people who actually payed attention to the 30 some years D of computing (and in particular Unix) research rather than suffering from NIH syndrome.   > F > I've sysadmin-ed and work with Solaris (X86/Sparc) and all the otherI > Unix varients (done about 30 or so at this point in the career) and the F > uptimes on work's linux boxes (customized kernel on RedHat 6.2) goesE > over a year regularly... (We still occasionally reboot them if they > > flake -- but I didn't get a year on Solaris 2.6 or 7 boxes). > G > I'd prefer FreeBSD -- but the commercial libraries and stuff are more I > commonly available on Linux and the telecom developers have a more SysV  > background...   F Well, I usually end out rebooting our FreeBSD boxes about once a year.D But that's usually because we are replacing the hardware with fasterF boxes and I don't know how to replace the box without shuting down the) old one and starting up the new one.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 01:04:50 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> D Subject: Re: How to check - write cache enabled/disabled of a device2 Message-ID: <3E445593.646B0A61@firstdbasource.com>   Nagaraj wrote: > 	 > Hi All,  > D > I would like to get whether the device write-back cache enabled or > disabled.  > 8 > Say for example our device supports tape data caching. > E > Using SYS$GETDVI or some other system services I would like to know D > whether it is enabled/disabled. I'm able to get whether the deviceE > supports write-backup caching. (Here i'm checking for DEV$M_WBC, it G > gives me it supports the same but it won't tell whether it is enabled  > or disabled) >  > $ show dev mua600/full > ? > >>> Magtape $1$MUA600: (HSJ000), device type TZ88, is online,  > allocated,G > >>> controller supports tape data caching (write-back cache enabled),  > deallocate on....  > ; > Here i just need to get WRITE-BACK CACHE ENABLED/DISABLED  > H > Just i would like to know which bit i need to check return status fromH > the getdvi. Any program or points or pointes any thing is appreciated. >  > Bunch of thanks in advance.  > 	 > Regards  > Nanu     how about...    ; $pipe show dev $1$mua600/full | sear sys$input "write-back"      --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:32:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B235.DF2D080F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <3E43E5E6.9030402@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: 
 >{...snip...} B >>HEY ENCOMPASS!  SURVEY REQUEST: It would be real interesting to A >>determine how many VMS folks (SYSMGR's, IT MGR's, NOC's, OP's,  G >>programmers, web designers, etc.) are honestly and actually spending  J >>their entire day sitting on an Alpha or VAX system (either at a console H >>or VT terminal or a non-unix/billybox X Thin-client) and not behind a K >>billybox or any other non-VMS windowing system!  Be sure to not only ask  G >>for the categories, but head counts for each so we can see how it is   >>distributed!   Survey starts now...   Me!    Survey ends now...   Survey says... 100%    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 12:17:29 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B2CA.9F1573E6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <mGX0a.294709$pDv.282342@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > - ><VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message + >news:00A1B252.E6BB51BD@SendSpamHere.ORG... ; >> In article <3E440908.E8F92DF1@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei * ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >> >Michael Unger wrote:D >> >> I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (at< >> >> Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or >equivalent, for> >> >> VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also
 >available >> >> from the web site).  >> >E >> >If I had to vote for only 2, I would go for Bookreader and PDF. I  >personally ' >> >find the HTML pages rather useless.  >> >= >> >The PDF manuals that have bookmarks are almost as good as  >bookreader (with the . >> >advantage that PDF does support graphics). >>C >> The document in question used to be authored with DOCUMENT.  The  >output fromE >> a SDML source can be one of many formats.  The PDF on the web site  >is fine butG >> I would like to print it out (like the preliminary drafts when Alpha  >was intro- C >> duced) so that I can read and study them (you know, little light  >reading whilst C >> sitting on the can).  I've already got too much gear and I'll be  >disowned by my C >> wife and family if I were to place a monitor and keyboard in the 
 >privie!  The D >> little league baseball season will be here soon too.  It would be
 >nice to take F >> this along to read at junior's practices.  ...and BG can cram it up >the output > >> end of his alimentary canal, I am NOT paying for Micro$haft >anything!  There's C >> no reason paper cannot be accomodated.  Anyone remember the Gray  >Wall?  Has anE >> aire of dignity when spoken that's lost when saying "a lap full of 
 >Billy-shit".  >  > > >A possible work-around for the loo, batting practice, etc.... > 5 >http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html G >The version of Acrobat Reader you are downloading:  Reader for Palm OS   " ... and this will run on my LNCO2?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:38:46 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B236.B8695B87@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <00A1B25D.FCEF504E.25@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:
 >{...snip...} ? >I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (at G >Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or equivalent, for C >VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also available  >from the web site).  F Strip the Micro$haft-isms from the HTML and I'll be happy.  I'm sorry F but I just don't believe that the world sits there on a PeeCee with anF 800x640.  The shitty non-aliased nature of its graphics give one head-F ache at 1280x1024; 800x640 must be like a massive stroke combined with an acute migraine. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 12:43:51 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages3 Message-ID: <hH7DkUyEwXxk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KS5Z09WQ0C9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: F >> > Is there ANY GOOD REASON AT ALL why ALL VMS documentation is not N >> > available on BOOKREADER?  As I understand it, it is (or at least used to A >> > be) done in DOCUMENT and the various formats were generated   >> > automatically.  >>  H >> I have no objection to output being available in bookreader, but only" >> bookreader, I have a problem!   > E > As I said, generate all formats automatically from a common source.   C That is the way DEC Document works, but including Bookreader output F exceeds the size of a single CDROM (for some combination of products).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 19:48:20 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages' Message-ID: <3E43FF74.21682DF7@aaa.com>   ' And there, in nutshell, is the problem. * The c.o.v most-frequent-writers, does not ! represent the VMS user community.   * My *guess* is that >90% of those that have) to read VMS docs, acualy does this on (or ) "from" or "through") a PC. They have a PC 
 anyway....   Jan-Erik Sderholm.       ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  >  > Survey starts now... >  > Me!  >  > Survey ends now... >  > Survey says... 100%  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 19:28:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pagesJ Message-ID: <rNT0a.293250$pDv.161387@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message % news:00A1B25D.FCEF504E.25@decus.de... > > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote: > ? > > > Why does HP now insist in making documentation that would  typically onlyE > > > be read by zealous VMS bigots like myself impossible to read on  anything > > > other than BillyToys?  > > D > > Is there ANY GOOD REASON AT ALL why ALL VMS documentation is notD > > available on BOOKREADER?  As I understand it, it is (or at least used to ? > > be) done in DOCUMENT and the various formats were generated  > > automatically. > 9 > I don't know about the availability of documentation on 
 BookReader -- < > but DECnet-OSI, -PhaseV, -Plus (or how it is called today)
 definitely  > isn't available in PDF format. > @ > I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (atD > Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or equivalent, for D > VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also available > from the web site).     D Using 'clean' HTML, you can create your own .pdf, right from the web8 site, using Adobe Acrobat and its 'Web Capture' feature.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:08:36 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages/ Message-ID: <3E43F623.305F8E4C@vl.videotron.ca>   B More and more, companies decide to use javascript to REPLACE HTML.  L Look at http://www.qantas.com.au , one of the world's largest airlines, make sure you disable javascript.  L Instead of configuring the web server to feed a specific home page when justJ the host name is supplied, or instead of having a <META refresh...> tag toL redirect to whatever page-du-jour should be the home page, they have a bunch? of javascript to trick the browser into reloading another page.   H But if you have javascript disabled, you get a totaly blank page, unsure whether the page worked or not.   L At HP, for the latest technical journals, some of the articles were fed as aG frameset. Instead of using the standard html code for frames, they used N javascript to trick the browser into creating the frames. As a result, many of0 those journals appeared as a totally blank page.  M Javascript has it uses, but I fail to understand why companies such as HP (or H Qantas) insist on using javascript when HTML is faster, simpler and more% compatible, and part of the standard.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:00:30 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B252.E6BB51BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E440908.E8F92DF1@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Michael Unger wrote: A >> I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (at I >> Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or equivalent, for E >> VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also available  >> from the web site). > M >If I had to vote for only 2, I would go for Bookreader and PDF. I personally $ >find the HTML pages rather useless. > O >The PDF manuals that have bookmarks are almost as good as bookreader (with the + >advantage that PDF does support graphics).   L The document in question used to be authored with DOCUMENT.  The output fromN a SDML source can be one of many formats.  The PDF on the web site is fine butO I would like to print it out (like the preliminary drafts when Alpha was intro- O duced) so that I can read and study them (you know, little light reading whilst O sitting on the can).  I've already got too much gear and I'll be disowned by my M wife and family if I were to place a monitor and keyboard in the privie!  The N little league baseball season will be here soon too.  It would be nice to takeN this along to read at junior's practices.  ...and BG can cram it up the outputN end of his alimentary canal, I am NOT paying for Micro$haft anything!  There'sN no reason paper cannot be accomodated.  Anyone remember the Gray Wall?  Has anO aire of dignity when spoken that's lost when saying "a lap full of Billy-shit".     J >Ideally, having the official Adobe PDF reader and writers on VMS would be<                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^N I'm hearing lyrics from an old Supertramp song... Dreamer, you know you are a ; dreamer.  Well, can you put your hands in your head? Oh no!      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 22:06:40 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B253.C3393499@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <00A1B252.E6BB51BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: c >In article <3E440908.E8F92DF1@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >>Michael Unger wrote:B >>> I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (atJ >>> Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or equivalent, forF >>> VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also available >>> from the web site).  >>N >>If I had to vote for only 2, I would go for Bookreader and PDF. I personally% >>find the HTML pages rather useless.  >>P >>The PDF manuals that have bookmarks are almost as good as bookreader (with the, >>advantage that PDF does support graphics).  L ...and to add, why no PostScript format???  Did HP forget that they are alsoL a printer company.  Or has HP gone whole hog to support the evil Redmond re-; gime and setup their printers to only support M$.DOC files?      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 15:23:58 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pagesJ Message-ID: <ii91a.246340$ej1.154831@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1B2CA.9F1573E6@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In articleE <mGX0a.294709$pDv.282342@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John  Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > > / > ><VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message - > >news:00A1B252.E6BB51BD@SendSpamHere.ORG... = > >> In article <3E440908.E8F92DF1@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei , > ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > >> >Michael Unger wrote:F > >> >> I vote for three different formats for all documents: HTML (at> > >> >> Q's/HP's web site for Internet access), BookReader (or > >equivalent, for@ > >> >> VMS), and PDF (for BillyToys and similar equipment, also > >available > >> >> from the web site).  > >> >E > >> >If I had to vote for only 2, I would go for Bookreader and PDF.  I 
 > >personally ) > >> >find the HTML pages rather useless.  > >> >? > >> >The PDF manuals that have bookmarks are almost as good as  > >bookreader (with the 0 > >> >advantage that PDF does support graphics). > >>E > >> The document in question used to be authored with DOCUMENT.  The  > >output fromB > >> a SDML source can be one of many formats.  The PDF on the web site > >is fine butC > >> I would like to print it out (like the preliminary drafts when  Alpha 
 > >was intro- E > >> duced) so that I can read and study them (you know, little light  > >reading whilst E > >> sitting on the can).  I've already got too much gear and I'll be  > >disowned by my E > >> wife and family if I were to place a monitor and keyboard in the  > >privie!  The F > >> little league baseball season will be here soon too.  It would be > >nice to take E > >> this along to read at junior's practices.  ...and BG can cram it  up
 > >the output @ > >> end of his alimentary canal, I am NOT paying for Micro$haft > >anything!  There's E > >> no reason paper cannot be accomodated.  Anyone remember the Gray  > >Wall?  Has anD > >> aire of dignity when spoken that's lost when saying "a lap full of > >Billy-shit".  > >  > > @ > >A possible work-around for the loo, batting practice, etc.... > > 7 > >http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html F > >The version of Acrobat Reader you are downloading:  Reader for Palm OS > $ > ... and this will run on my LNCO2?  B No, but you can now have the ability to accidentially flush a $300D device down the toilet while reading a .pdf. How many people in your@ neighborhood have done that? You can be the first on your block.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:04:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B2EA.5C59F05C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <ii91a.246340$ej1.154831@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:
 >{...snip...} C >No, but you can now have the ability to accidentially flush a $300 E >device down the toilet while reading a .pdf. How many people in your A >neighborhood have done that? You can be the first on your block.    :) :) :)  K My toilet seat cover is an "intel inside" logo so flushing a hand-held Pee- H Cee would be appropriate!   (I've got to get pix of it for my web site.)  K Hey, don't joke.  In the "development" (a NJ term for the projects) where I J presently reside, many of my neighbors (next door and across the street asL well as across the street from me two doors down) and many homes on adjacentL streets have had their lawns dug up and new leads to the sewer installed be-K cause of a clog or a pipe collapse.  The problems have been attributed to a L problem the main sewer lines in this "development".  Over the past few weeksL I have seen a "Video Pipe Service" truck and another truck with massive pipeJ sections and tanks on it (I presume some sort of sewer cleaning equipment)K on streets in the area.  I wonder what sort of strange things they've found 2 lurking down below and clogging the sewer lines.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:17:31 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages+ Message-ID: <b23e3b$dkm$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   c In article <3E43FF74.21682DF7@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: ( >And there, in nutshell, is the problem.+ >The c.o.v most-frequent-writers, does not  " >represent the VMS user community. > + >My *guess* is that >90% of those that have * >to read VMS docs, acualy does this on (or* >"from" or "through") a PC. They have a PC >anyway....  >  >Jan-Erik Sderholm. >   I And my guess is that >90% of those that have to read VMS docs may want to L do it on a VMS system. They have a VMS system anyway - and most systems soldM recently usually have a PC style monitor and graphics card on them - at least 
 where I work.   J Whether my guess or your guess is representitive of the VMS user communityL is impossible to gauge. The silent Majority don't speak hence the only guideE we have to the VMS user community is those who post to forums such as  comp.os.vms.      K In my office - two people who manage VMS systems (myself and one other) and L two other people who act as Oracle DBAs on VMS systems each have a VMS AlphaK workstation on their desks. All but one of the systems down in the computer ? centre has a graphics monitor running X windows as its console.bN Of those 4 people I'm probably the only one who could be classed as a frequent poster to comp.os.vms.      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University      >  > " >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>   >> Survey starts now...e >> l >> Me! >> f >> Survey ends now...o >> s >> Survey says... 100% >>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:24:48 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...P2 Message-ID: <rfOdnZsUlN12dt6jXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0302070352.5c5581be@posting.google.com...d7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<QIucndfovvMCyN6jXTWcog@metrocast.net>...5 > > "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message . > > news:01C2CDED.0AF1FED0@sulfer.icius.com...K > > > Or, to be a little more fair, one IBM exec says AMD won't be a player  inL > > > the 64bit arena in 5 years, quite possibly putting his foot in it with > > > his personal opinion.o > >oF > > Actually, to be accurate, he said *nothing* about AMD.  What he is reported > > to have said was:  > > F > > "In five years, he predicts, there will be only two players in the high-end, > > microprocessor business: IBM and Intel." > >nJ > > Now, while AMD is indeed coming out with a 64-bit microprocessor, it'sH > > hardly 'high-end':  it's planned to be their commodity offering.  It doesJ > > happen to offer excellent performance in 64-bit operation (which until now K > > has been somewhat of a 'high-end' province) as well as 32-bit operation1J > > (which is indisputably commodity in nature), and it could conceivably, ifI > > sufficiently successful, wipe out the current 'high-end' 64-bit uPs -o butpE > > that wouldn't make Hammer 'high-end' itself, it would just be the F > > elimination of the 'high-end' market by disruptive commodity-levelC > > technology (as relatively low-end SCSI technology wiped out thee! > > washing-machine disk drive)..o > >lI > > I doubt that Zeitler would call Hammer a 'high-end microprocessor' ifu youoL > > asked him, and therefore I doubt that his statement was meant in any way toF > > include AMD.  The Inquirer's article was simply written by someone lookingjG > > for an eye-catching headline who didn't spend much time considering  whether. > > it was factual as well.I > >k
 > > - bill >eE > Thanks for explaining everything for us Bill. Indeed very good. Yesb
 indeed. :)   Always happy to help.e   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 15:14:28 -0600.+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e- Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 3 Message-ID: <X173etxm1L99@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  W In article <01C2CE9A.A289F1F0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:-   > G > Still, we're both only speculating. Since we're doing that, how about H > this one: He might have a merger or takeover in mind, rolling AMD intoB > IBM. Mmmm, IBM owning and developing hammer, with access to someF > ex-Alpha designers, the original AMD mob and their own experts. ThanF > sprinkle on some IBM business savvy and marketing talent. I wouldn't# > want to go up against that combo.7 >   = 	Why not?  How about the IBM and Motorola powerhouse?  That's- 	gone far hasn't it?  not.   				Rob-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:13:54 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 2 Message-ID: <R6Gcna10KJowstmjXTWcog@metrocast.net>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messageh* news:01C2CE9A.A289F1F0@sulfer.icius.com...J > Opteron is not meant to be commodity, its little brother Athlon64 is theE > commodity offering. Opteron is aimed squarely at the server market.   L Hmmm.  While I'd also consider Xeon (which bears the same relationship to P4K that Opteron does to Athlon64) to be both a near-commodity and considerablyeG less than a 'high-end microprocessor', it's true that it's at least not  *quite* as much so as P4.u   >eH > I think your main point may very well be true though, I hadn't thoughtG > of it that way round. In this context it doesn't matter what AMD wants > the Opteron to be,  G Actually, I've never heard a peep out of AMD suggesting that they meantrG Hammer to be competition in the high end of the range, just desktop andsJ low-to-possibly-mid-range servers.  If it succeeds there I suspect it willD have met all their hopes for it - the fact that it might squeeze theE high-end market down to something close to negligible would be a siden effect.<  3  it's whether Zeitler considers it high end or not,fC > and he probably doesn't. Thanks for offering that possibility up.y >eG > Still, we're both only speculating. Since we're doing that, how aboutuH > this one: He might have a merger or takeover in mind, rolling AMD intoB > IBM. Mmmm, IBM owning and developing hammer, with access to someF > ex-Alpha designers, the original AMD mob and their own experts. ThanF > sprinkle on some IBM business savvy and marketing talent. I wouldn't# > want to go up against that combo..  J Back when AMD's market valuation was down around $1 billion I wondered whyH IBM didn't just snap it up and guessed that anti-trust issues might haveF played a part.  When they announced their joint technology development5 agreement I thought "Ah - so that's the alternative."   G Being able to hoist Intel on its own architectural petard by leveraginguI AMD's evolutionary technology would not only be a major business coup for|K IBM but likely fairly satisfying as well.  If Hammer comes anywhere near to-H living up to its promise, the legitimizing effect of adoption into IBM's6 lineup could be exactly what it would take to do that.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 06:05:51 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog!e< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302080605.6ac0d2a@posting.google.com>  % you want fast java ... alpha vms ... 0  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7679   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:50:37 +0100s6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>C Subject: Re: Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog! ) Message-ID: <3E45274D.5080905@vajhoej.dk>r   Bob Ceculski wrote:c' > you want fast java ... alpha vms ... b > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7679   Bad journalism !  7 Carefull reading of the article and a bit investigationl
 reveals that:u=    - the the main story is a memory leak that was found found       before releaset?    - a bug claimed unfixable 4380663 that is actually a missingc&      feature that was added in JDK 1.48    - a bug claimed unfixable 4246106 that does not exist  7 I have been using Java on Solaris and it did not appearl1 more memory hungry there than on other platforms.   ( Solaris sucks but that is another story.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 07:47:16 -0800o5 From: oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker) D Subject: Looking for VMS Developers for Contract/Freelance Positions= Message-ID: <e8a0f3ac.0302080747.71b93a61@posting.google.com>I  D On behalf of our client, a financial institutuion, we currently have> openings for experienced developers with the following skills;   Cobols C  DCL  VMSa Solaris (basics)  @ The role will involve application development within the area of1 financial trading and clearing software releases.n  ; This is an excellent opportunity to work for a high profile0. internationally reknown financial institution.   Location - Frankfurt, Germanyo& Start - April 2003 - Long Term Project  E Please be aware that these positions are only open to EU nationals as>4 we, nor our client are able to sponsor work permits.  @ Should you be interested, please forward your resume and contact details to;    oliver.becker@alba-software.como  - Tel +44 (20) 7643 2211 or +49 (0)69 3085 5050p   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 23:11:48 -0800t' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)C6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <734da31c.0302072311.22449b4e@posting.google.com>l  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<F4CdnaNMJvvec96jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...6 > "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message9 > news:734da31c.0302070841.2b44642a@posting.google.com...n >  > ...v > J > > Since a while back I take as much notice to your posts just as much asH > > I take notice to Bob Ceculski's. At least one can get a laugh of BobH > > Ceculski's posts, but your posts have the last year been so dull and8 > > predictable that they are not worth reading anymore. > L > You're of course free to any opinion you care to hold.  But I really don't > give a shit about it.l  < This was something I expected. Just giving some information.   > >cG > > Years back you have expressed terrific technical posts on computingm1 > > science, but it seems you have lost all that?l > C > When something of technical interest comes along, I get involved.uN > Unfortunately, VMS has so little interesting development going on these days > that this is rare.   But you are interested in VMS?   >  Was the alphacide such ai > > hard thing in your life? :)C > F > Not at all:  it simply exceeded a disgust threshold which demanded a > response.   @ I think a respone has been made, and perhaps it's time to go on.  + >  I have also seen that you have beginning H > > to exaggerate to get your point made. This is a bad sign in my view. > K > Since you appear unable to distinguish fact from exaggeration, I'm afraidf' > your view doesn't seem very relevant.a   Your intepretation.   N My overall point is that you could at least be a bit positive once in a while.) Is really everything negative these days?m   /David   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 23:30:12 -0800t' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)t6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <734da31c.0302072330.5177c44b@posting.google.com>i  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E447A70.C9E253D2@fsi.net>... > Bill Todd wrote: > > 8 > > "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message; > > news:734da31c.0302070841.2b44642a@posting.google.com...r > >  > > ...k > > > Was the alphacide such a! > > > hard thing in your life? :)l > > H > > Not at all:  it simply exceeded a disgust threshold which demanded a
 > > response.n > H > I share Bill's concern here. Had the event not been preceded by publicH > commitments which were publicly broken by the event, it would probably@ > have passed quietly as a normal event in the overall scheme of > technological advances.o > F > When a company plays its user base (read: it's lifeblood) for blind,< > ignorant fools, that demands an unequivocal response, IMO.   I agree fully with the above.i  D But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some peopleC opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed. ItaniumlA have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with the)F Alpha retirement. The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does not make Itanium better or worse.>   /David   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 08:24:21 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 315 Message-ID: <V831a.198430$xv1.2428904@news.chello.at>g  g In article <734da31c.0302072330.5177c44b@posting.google.com>, icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) writes:ra >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E447A70.C9E253D2@fsi.net>... I >> I share Bill's concern here. Had the event not been preceded by publichI >> commitments which were publicly broken by the event, it would probably A >> have passed quietly as a normal event in the overall scheme ofy >> technological advances. >> eG >> When a company plays its user base (read: it's lifeblood) for blind,g= >> ignorant fools, that demands an unequivocal response, IMO.l >s >I agree fully with the above. >nE >But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some people D >opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed. ItaniumB >have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with theG >Alpha retirement. The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does not  >make Itanium better or worse.  G Yes, people don't like it, when they had a (small) chance, and this got 2 canned and replaced by half of a (small) chance...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialisty E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 03:41:03 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <O_KdncF4h6Q0X9mjXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0302072311.22449b4e@posting.google.com....7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<F4CdnaNMJvvec96jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>...8 > > "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message; > > news:734da31c.0302070841.2b44642a@posting.google.com....   ...1  I > > > Years back you have expressed terrific technical posts on computing 3 > > > science, but it seems you have lost all that?  > >lE > > When something of technical interest comes along, I get involved. K > > Unfortunately, VMS has so little interesting development going on theset days > > that this is rare. >b  > But you are interested in VMS?  I I would be if it were still being developed at all aggressively (so as toeK regain some of the markets it has lost over the past decade or more):  it's)J an excellent platform, but unfortunately a dying one whose health was madeL far more precarious by the Alphacide - which is why I believe that atonementA in the form of compensating development and marketing activity ise particularly appropriate.A  H Some people feel that criticism, however well-deserved, will only hastenG VMS's demise.  My response is that if this is true then it will bring atH merciful relief earlier:  if the patient is dying anyway, prolonging theB agony a bit isn't necessarily desirable, especially if it requiresI withholding treatment that at least has a chance of promoting a recovery.    >p > >  Was the alphacide such as! > > > hard thing in your life? :)n > >eH > > Not at all:  it simply exceeded a disgust threshold which demanded a
 > > response.m > B > I think a respone has been made, and perhaps it's time to go on.  F It will be time to go on when suitable reparations have been made - no earlier.   >3- > >  I have also seen that you have beginningzJ > > > to exaggerate to get your point made. This is a bad sign in my view. > >lF > > Since you appear unable to distinguish fact from exaggeration, I'm afraid) > > your view doesn't seem very relevant.r >o > Your intepretation.n  B Unless you'd care to advance actual examples of your assertion for8 assessment, I suggest that it's a rather reasonable one.   >iI > My overall point is that you could at least be a bit positive once in aB while.+ > Is really everything negative these days?e  K For VMS, mostly.  For the rest of the industry, not so bad (which of courseo* only makes VMS's lot worse by comparison).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:34:48 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <F4CdnaNMJvvec96jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0302070841.2b44642a@posting.google.com...    ...C  H > Since a while back I take as much notice to your posts just as much asF > I take notice to Bob Ceculski's. At least one can get a laugh of BobF > Ceculski's posts, but your posts have the last year been so dull and6 > predictable that they are not worth reading anymore.  J You're of course free to any opinion you care to hold.  But I really don't give a shit about it.>   > E > Years back you have expressed terrific technical posts on computing// > science, but it seems you have lost all that?r  A When something of technical interest comes along, I get involved.uL Unfortunately, VMS has so little interesting development going on these days that this is rare.    Was the alphacide such a  > hard thing in your life? :)H  D Not at all:  it simply exceeded a disgust threshold which demanded a	 response.t  )  I have also seen that you have beginningaF > to exaggerate to get your point made. This is a bad sign in my view.  I Since you appear unable to distinguish fact from exaggeration, I'm afraidb% your view doesn't seem very relevant.w   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 10:32:37 -0800r' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <734da31c.0302081032.2c13259f@posting.google.com>   @ "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<-> >M > - deprived customers of any competitive advantage that Alpha had given themeA > (starting at the latest in 2004, when EV8 would have appeared),   = I am not that convinced of the superiority of EV8 as you are.m  J > - higher power consumption (more expensive both to run and to cool; less0 > amenable to high-density - e.g., blade - use),  @ Yes, that is a problem, but EV7 and Power have the same problem.  F > - larger die area (more expensive to build, less room to incorporate; > desirable ancillary features such as EV7's on-chip glue),i  B I agree. But I don't see that IA-64 in general must have large die size.m  G > - greater dependence upon feedback-directed compiler optimizations to I > achieve competitive performance (which means that the large majority oftF > software won't achieve anything like the performance that benchmarksK > suggest - especially as existing binaries migrate to newer members of the-- > architecture than they were optimized for),r  ? All benchmarks (especially SPEC benchmarks) today are made withe? profile guided optimizations, not just for Itanium. I have seenR> tremendous performance improvements with IPO on x86 and Alpha.  I > - greater dependence on leading-edge compiler development in general to J > achieve competitive performance (if similar efforts were applied to RISC1 > compilers, they'd be faster than they are now),l  > I agree with the first statement. I really don't see that as a problem.  L > - and there's some reason to believe that improving its performance beyondL > current levels (aside from advances due to normal process shrinks) will beJ > more difficult than would be the case with a good RISC architecture likeH > Alpha's (or, to put it another way, many of the tricks Itanic2 uses toL > achieve performance would be equally applicable to, and easily added to, aL > processor like Alpha, but the converse does not seem nearly as true, sinceI > the EPIC architecture and Itanic's specific implementation of it do notl> > appear conducive to additions such as SMT or OoO execution).  C If Intel can keep a steady increase in Mhz I think Itanium will geteC very fast. Itanium is today the fastest CPU on a given Mhz. I guess C OoO is out of the question for IA-64, but SMT will most likely give  great improvements.    /David   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:52:20 -0800a. From: terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net>  Subject: Re: Oracle 9i and ODS-5* Message-ID: <3E44E164.8657483F@brandx.net>   Dirk,I  - I've recently installed 9.2.0.2 on VMS 7.3-1.oJ YES ORACLE 9.2 MUST BE on a disk with ODS-5 format, as it installs unix s= tyle. directories. You're oracle database files need+ NOT BE ON ODS-5, but the 9.2 software must.n  + To answer your question Oracle support told + me they run 9.0.1.3 and 9.2.0.2 On the samec+ ODS-5 disk. Just because the drive is ODS-5e& doesn't mean you can't have normal VMS. directories specs, but in general you're going& to use extended parse which means UNIX, style case rules (i.e. dir [sysupdate] needs+ to be dir [SYSUPDATE]. We went the separates+ disk route mostly to make the systems dept.r, happy, and isolate the drive from the old 9i disk for software fallback.   - 9.2 is a completely new cat in that oracleins * is gone (for DBCA), and how you manage the( database is generally through JAVA based& packages. You will need a separate VMS) account (from 9.1 and 8i). Not clear also . is that you can install on JAVA 1.1.8, inspire. of the instructions showing calling a JAVA 1.2+ setup. Only only HP tcpip 5.3 is supported.m3 make sure to get all the metalink articles (there'se2 like 5) + ftp the 9.2 vms zip, extract the install, manuals, and plan on reading quite a bit for) a couple of days. Some will contradict sod/ go with the latest updated article in metalink.e   Dirk Munk wrote:   > Syltrem wrote:J > > I saw a note on Metalink to the effect that Oracle 9.2.2 MUST be inst= alledm > > on an ODS-5 disk.y > >l > > Can anyone comment on this?VJ > > Is that only for the binaries, or is it also true for the database fi= les? > > J > > Can I safely convert a drive from ODS-2 to ODS-5, or is is best to bu= y a newl* > > disk just for installing Oracle on it? > >t > > Any advice appreciated.e > >O
 > > Thanks > >r > > -- > >w! > > OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0  > >  > > SyltremaL > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en fran=E7= ais)< > > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > >  > >F > >aJ > As mentioned by others, converting from ODS2 to ODS5 is easy. However k= eep inH > mind that a ODS5 system disk is only supported from VMS 7.3-1 upwards.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:01:52 +0530, From: "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> Subject: PIAO device error2 Message-ID: <015201c2cf4d$66c1bf00$3c03e980@bofpc>  L I am getting a error in our VAX 3400 system running on VMS 5.5-2  which says something like this :M  B %pia0% port is going to be re-started -  Number of retries left 49  ? This  goes on for 49 times more and then this message appears :.   "port piao is going offline"  > After this I cannot log onto the system even form the console.   Upon giving the commando   $ sh dev pia0:/full it shows  < Device PIA0: is online, shareable, error logging is enabled.  C Error count                     0                        Operationso completed                  0@ Owner process                 ""                       Owner UIC [0,0]g  Owner process ID        00000000:                                                   Dev Prot S:RWLP,O:RWLP,G:RWLP,W:RWLPeJ Reference count                0                       Default buffer size 0H      6 I cannot what is the problem, what is the device PIA0: PLease help. Arindam Paul   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:13:08 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: PIAO device error6 Message-ID: <b236q6$18l6lo$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  K From memory (you don't want to know how unreliable that is :-), PIA0 is the A driver for DSSI attached disks, like PKA0 and PUA0 for SCSI resp.o UDA50/KDB50 based disks.J Does the 3400 have disks called DIA... or tapes called MIA... ? If so thanH you're in trouble because their controller has problems. If not that theF DSSI controller on the 3400 may see a DSSI bus without termination and% complain about that. The DCL commandsv
 SHOW DEVICE DF SHOW DEVICE MI2 will show you information on attached peripherals.  9 "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> schreef in bericht:, news:015201c2cf4d$66c1bf00$3c03e980@bofpc... >e >,I > I am getting a error in our VAX 3400 system running on VMS 5.5-2  whicha says > something like this :> >oD > %pia0% port is going to be re-started -  Number of retries left 49 >aA > This  goes on for 49 times more and then this message appears :  >T > "port piao is going offline" >a@ > After this I cannot log onto the system even form the console. >s > Upon giving the commando >e > $ sh dev pia0:/full it shows >w> > Device PIA0: is online, shareable, error logging is enabled. >rE > Error count                     0                        Operationst > completed                  0B > Owner process                 ""                       Owner UIC > [0,0]t" > Owner process ID        00000000< >                                                   Dev Prot > S:RWLP,O:RWLP,G:RWLP,W:RWLPwL > Reference count                0                       Default buffer size > 0a >  >l > 8 > I cannot what is the problem, what is the device PIA0: > PLease help. > Arindam Paul >G   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 08:42:41 -0600i; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)b( Subject: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.33 Message-ID: <NX08fYPNQFhg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I    I just updated my hobbyist VAX to 7.3 and then thought I'd try Kednos'dE    PI/I compiler, about time I learned another language.  The latest  F    download installed fine on my Alpha (7.2-1), but the IO test of the    IVP fails on my VAX.  o      Looks like the   1       call display(file4,ptr1->pli_file_display);       is returning all 0's.  F    I thought I saw something on c.o.v. earlier, but Ggogle didn't find    anything on thte IVP.  B    Anyone else see this?  (I'm going to forward a copy to Kednos?)    r   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 09:30:57 -0600j- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s, Subject: Re: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.33 Message-ID: <N7CQv8Ucoxn4@eisner.encompasserve.org>G  q In article <NX08fYPNQFhg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:. > K >    I just updated my hobbyist VAX to 7.3 and then thought I'd try Kednos'rG >    PI/I compiler, about time I learned another language.  The latest sH >    download installed fine on my Alpha (7.2-1), but the IO test of the >    IVP fails on my VAX.  b >  >    Looks like the  > 3 >       call display(file4,ptr1->pli_file_display);k >  >    is returning all 0's.  2 Did you install both the PLI and the PLIRTL kits ?  H >    I thought I saw something on c.o.v. earlier, but Ggogle didn't find >    anything on thte IVP. > D >    Anyone else see this?  (I'm going to forward a copy to Kednos?)  B I also believe I have heard of such a problem, but possibly not onA comp.os.vms.  Sending a report to Kednos sounds like a good idea.pA Even if they have a previous report, it is possible that a reportr# from you would give better details.O   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:54:59 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a, Subject: RE: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.39 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBLGJAA.tom@kednos.com>t  G There was a problem building the starlet libraries for the last kit.  InF have put up a copy of an older version of the libs which will overcomeH IVP failure.  You can find the info and link on our site, www.kednos.com  H I will post a note when the problem is permanently corrected.  Sorry for any inconvenience.   Tomn   >-----Original Message-----eC >From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]l* >Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 6:43 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >Subject: PL/I IVP failure on VAX VMS 7.3  >t >  >>J >   I just updated my hobbyist VAX to 7.3 and then thought I'd try Kednos'F >   PI/I compiler, about time I learned another language.  The latest G >   download installed fine on my Alpha (7.2-1), but the IO test of thea >   IVP fails on my VAX.   >s >   Looks like the > >I2 >      call display(file4,ptr1->pli_file_display); >P >   is returning all 0's.  >>G >   I thought I saw something on c.o.v. earlier, but Ggogle didn't findh >   anything on thte IVP.  >dC >   Anyone else see this?  (I'm going to forward a copy to Kednos?)  >    >. >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003i >b --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:35:17 -0800 . From: terrence golden <terrygolden@brandx.net>2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java IVP (Java 1.1.8-5)* Message-ID: <3E44DD64.E37F745E@brandx.net>  - Check to make sure that you have made all thee firmware and other patches.   - Actually last Oct02 Hp came out with 1.2 JAVAa1 (JAVA2 EE) release, and if you're just installingm- I would go with that release as 1.1.8 is 3 yr   old JAVA and not worth the time.   Bill McLaughlin wrote:  C > I installed the latest Java (1.1.8-5) from the VMS 7.3 CDROM. TheyF > install seemd to go OK but I then ran the IVP (java$ivp.com) and got > the following error: >o% > Test compilation of MyWorld.java...,# > error: Can't write: MyWorld.classo	 > 1 errora+ > Test compilation of MyWorld.java failed !o > A > I have read through all the release notes, etc. and didn't finds' > anything. Does anyone have any ideas?  > G > Also, I don't know if this is related, but the Oracle 9i installationiD > is failing as well. After selecting the Standard Edition, a windowE > keeps popping up saying "There was an error during loading library:- > areasQueries". > D > This error comes up about 15 or so times and then the install goes > back to the first window.w >pG > Man, I miss the old days od VMSINSTAL and PRODUCT INSTALL! We used to1< > get real error messages and be able to solve the problems. >S	 > Thanks.n > Bill McLaughlin    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 05:21:32 -0800y- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)e! Subject: Sending uppercase in RSHu= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0302080521.20ca7aad@posting.google.com>b  6 Is there any way to send Uppercase characters in RSH ?  =  When I issue lpstat -R inside a RSH command , Solaris systeme  receive "lpstat -r".x   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 14:38:54 +0100h9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n% Subject: Re: Sending uppercase in RSHt' Message-ID: <3E45086E.7E36ACE2@aaa.com>y   Try "lpstat -R"   1 (That is, add double-quotes to your RSH command.)t  & Not sure it helps, but I'd try that...   Jan-Erik Sderholm     Shiva MahaDeva wrote:t > 8 > Is there any way to send Uppercase characters in RSH ? > ? >  When I issue lpstat -R inside a RSH command , Solaris systemd >  receive "lpstat -r".v >  > Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 05:36:39 -0800i( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)= Subject: SIMH/VAX 2.10-2 Win32 Binaries with Ethernet Supporte< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302080536.74c972b0@posting.google.com>  E This version is supposed to support VAXcluster.  Can someone test andi report if it's true?  Thanks!   9 SIMH/VAX 2.10-2 Win32 binaries *with* Ethernet from here:7  $ http://www.tubas.net/~kstailey/simh/   Requires winpcap.b  7 http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a4.exee  ! That binary is part of this page:.  , http://winpcap.polito.it/install/default.htm  0 since the packet capture drives are not bundled.  7 For network documentation get the SIMH source code fromo   http://simh.trailing-edge.com/  + and look through it for readme's and *.txt.   1 To test if winpcap is running OK get WinDump fromS   http://windump.polito.it/r  D and run "WinDump -D".  It should print the name of any network cards you have similar to this:g  2 1.\Device\NPF_El90x1 (3Com 3C90x Ethernet Adapter)  F If you don't see that you might need to replace the Packet.dll that isB in my ZIP file.  Look for replacements at the bottom of this page:  $ http://winpcap.polito.it/contact.htm  E Once you have that working you should use name from "WinDump -D" in acB SIMH "attach" command to tell SIMH to map your network card to theC virtual DELQA.  Given the name from the previous example the attachs command would be:    ATTACH XQ \Device\NPF_El90x1  B It is not well documented but the author of SIMH gave up trying toF shove a VT-100 emulator in the Windows binary and put a command to use+ telnet to gain control of the console.  Usef   set telnet <port>t  B After that command, telnet into the emulator console and then typeD "boot cpu" from the non-telnet session and the system will boot with' console output going to the telnet one..   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 18:20 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)a; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...!, Message-ID: <7FEB200318205397@gerg.tamu.edu>  4 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes...2 }On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:27:54 GMT, Vance Haemmerle% }<vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US> wrote:R }   }>  Hey, a fellow Betamax owner! }>3 }>  It sucks when the best product doesn't succeed.v } F }I'm curious: on what basis is Betamax superior to VHS? From what I've }heard:o } ? }- Betamax could freeze frame without flicker; but this isn't a 
 }requirement.<E }- Betamax at least initially couldn't store a whole movie on a tape;u" }this definitely is a requirement.  E With a quick check on Google, I still couldn't find the details - but I as I recall Beta had better visual quality, primarily better reproductionaG of color, due to having several percent greater information storage pernE frame of image. VHS had trouble matching a good broadcast image. BetahG also got all, or at least almost all, of the innovations first, usuallypG by about a year - hi-fi stereo, "super" (i.e. improved quality - "SupersF Beta" predates "Super VHS") and there is also an "Enhanced Definition"E version of Beta that I don't think there is an equivalent for in VHS.a  F The original Beta tapes held, I think, one hour. Enough for a TV show, but not a movie.  $ }>You know, Sony published full pageJ }>ads in Latin America in 1988, 1989 saying "Beta es para siempre. PalabraH }>de honor. Palabra de Sony." which translates to "Beta is forever. WordI }>of honor. Word of Sony."  Of course, this past August Sony announced itPI }>was stopping Betamax production by the end of 2002.  It seems corporateb }>promises don't mean anything.i }  }*blink* } D }Dear God, they kept producing Betamax all the way up to a couple ofE }months ago? Must be that Japanese code of honor thing. I'd rate that ( }as keeping their promise and then some.  J It had been used in low end professional equipment (for those who couldn'tJ affor D1) until it was displaced by digital video. Well, it probably stillM isn't completely displaced - Sony may not make the machines anymore, but theye do still make blank tapes.  D I would expect that the flicker-free still image implies a generallyF superior ability to extract specific frames and ranges of frames. ThisI would be a very good feature for professional use when doing the editing.-  I Anyhow, VHS will follow Beta to the historical dustbin - although it will H have lived a longer life (it became available about a year later, but itI will outlive the last Beta system produced by more than a year - probablyu
 at least 10).,   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:53:06 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> & Subject: Sun Ships Solaris 9 For IntelJ Message-ID: <mLP0a.292290$pDv.179555@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   Sun Ships Solaris 9 For Intela Thu Feb 6, 4:40 PM ETl  ! InternetWeek.com, InformationWeek   F Sun Microsystems on Thursday disclosed the availability of its Solaris@ 9 operating system for Intel servers. The company introduced the@ Solaris 9 x86 Platform Edition, designed to compete with Windows servers.   Source code is available.-  F Previous versions of Solaris x86 have more than 1.1 million registered licenses, Sun said.j  A The new version includes SunScreen 3.2 software firewall, Sun Ones> Directory Server, IPQoS services for bandwidth management, and management tools.s  C The software is free for noncommercial usage; pricing starts at $99m for commercial use.o   -----------------------m    C HP seems to believe that publicity is a valuable thing and is to be B carefully guarded at all costs. That's why it appears that none is wasted on OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:20:07 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> $ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's0 Message-ID: <wjW0a.706$he4.571@news.cpqcorp.net>  + Is the end user a current OpenVMS customer?d  0 What is the opportunity (systems, service, etc)?  G Is the 3rd party tool something widely used by Oracle users?  Are theirt alternatives that run on VMS?   I I'm not a salesman, but depending on the answers -- I'll do what I can tolK direct it to the right person.  You might directly contact someone like SueeL Skonetski if you believe that there is an opportunity (who can probably find* and reach the right person better than I).    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageE news:S7R0a.591869$F2h1.278585@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...oG > An associate of mine has been at a customer site for the past severalnA > weeks dealing with business reporting issues for this customer.i >iH > Their reporting infrastructure consists of a Sun 8-way box, with 30 GbF > of RAM, running a 3rd party reporting tool against Oracle databases.H > Optimizing the reporting code and the reporting database as heavily asF > possible, he is finding that they can only execute 4,000 reports perB > hour. Unfortunately the customer has but an 8 hour window to runC > 80,000 reports, so given the current Sun system he can't make hisdG > reporting window. There are a number of mysteries going on inside thenC > Sun box vis. cpu utilization that are not fully understood at the . > moment and these bear further investigation. >uG > I'm not going to get into the details of the reports, nor the line ofoE > business, but suffice it to say that the customer considered taking F > the drive to Nashua (they are within a 3hr. road radius of there andH > they had heard of the new EV7 releases and the performance thereof) toH > benchmark on Alpha -either under Tru64 or VMS, but for the one glaringH > problem - the 3rd-party reporting tool they use is not available under
 > either o/s.o >  > C'est la guerre. >D >d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:57:25 GMTa3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)=" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?0 Message-ID: <9XO0a.663$AS3.158@news.cpqcorp.net>  9 In article <tmf54voohamsgkpqm502mc42md6vme2h47@4ax.com>, R Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:a  D >If you have millions of people around the world reviewing the code,  = This line seems to assume facts not in evidence.  "Millions"?.E I doubt it.  Maybe thousands.  Probably a lot less with the knowledge H and experience needed to find very subtle security holes in mature code E that has already undergone peer review, often repeatedly (an OpenVMS b Engineering norm).  D >the odds are a LOT higher that someone (or many) will find holes in >it, if there are any.  D Obviously, every pair of eyes that sees the code increases the odds 8 some amount, but I doubt that it increases them "a LOT".  I On the other hand, the odds are a lot higher that the "someone (or many)"t= who finds any such hole will exploit it in an unfriendly way.    -- 3J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:22:32 -0500e& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?0 Message-ID: <wmP0a.665$6y3.334@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:[ > In article <A1e0a.535$062.433@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:y >  >>Dan wrote: >> >>G >>Yes, I know, BLISS is really an expression language (and some folks, tH >>including myself, take advantage of that - especially inside macros), I >>but you can write BLISS code that doesn't look all that much different aA >>than Pascal or C (+/- the speelling of various reserved words).r >  > J >    Ever try to access a 36 character array in the middle of a structure H >    in BLISS?  Yes, it can be done, no it's not as easy as it could be. >   H Look at setting up a default structure.  With it, you can do things like  , first_char = .my_structure[middle_array][0];   just that easy.-      E The default structure I use doesn't assume a byte vector (it is more d, flexible than that) so I have to specify it.  2 first_char = .my_structure[middle_array][0,b_vec];  < My default structure allows me to keep following pointers...   up_level = nG .my_structure[ptr_to_parent][ptr_to_parent,b_blk][ptr_to_parent,b_blk];o  7 I've posted it before.  If interested I'll do it again.b   -- k John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaders Hewlett-Packard Companyv   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 23:30:34 +0000e+ From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk>o" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?8 Message-ID: <u4g84vgdipcu1pv0u7oqsafver4ogk4lpc@4ax.com>  H On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:56:47 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  H >A lecturer once told me, "You can write FORTRAN code in any language."   L I think that's a quote from "Real Programmers don't use Pascal".  One URL of  many for this infamous piece is:1 http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.htmli     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:40:07 -0500a From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>d" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?8 Message-ID: <ltg84vkq4pkb18ifii3red9mud680fd0ug@4ax.com>  & That's a load of FUD, and you know it.  E And if you knew anything about open source, you'd know my posting wast1 correct, if a but UNDER stated (not over stated).    Dan.F On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:57:25 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote:m  : >In article <tmf54voohamsgkpqm502mc42md6vme2h47@4ax.com>,  >Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes: > E >>If you have millions of people around the world reviewing the code,  >h> >This line seems to assume facts not in evidence.  "Millions"?F >I doubt it.  Maybe thousands.  Probably a lot less with the knowledgeI >and experience needed to find very subtle security holes in mature code nF >that has already undergone peer review, often repeatedly (an OpenVMS  >Engineering norm).a >eE >>the odds are a LOT higher that someone (or many) will find holes ini >>it, if there are any.t > E >Obviously, every pair of eyes that sees the code increases the odds s9 >some amount, but I doubt that it increases them "a LOT".  > J >On the other hand, the odds are a lot higher that the "someone (or many)"> >who finds any such hole will exploit it in an unfriendly way.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 18:40:59 -0500e From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>u" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?8 Message-ID: <vvg84vgl079pojp8c1mjd66iu6ecenavdj@4ax.com>  * Funny... Pascal is my favorite language...   Dan.. On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 23:30:34 +0000, John Laird! <john@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:b  I >On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:56:47 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:. > I >>A lecturer once told me, "You can write FORTRAN code in any language."   >nM >I think that's a quote from "Real Programmers don't use Pascal".  One URL ofp! >many for this infamous piece is:n2 >http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html >i >e >	John   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 19:07:11 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-" Subject: Re: VMS source listings ?3 Message-ID: <QbNk0FVG6eU9@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  R In article <ltg84vkq4pkb18ifii3red9mud680fd0ug@4ax.com>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:( > That's a load of FUD, and you know it.   A. Because it's backwards.   Q. Why is top-posting bad?   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2003 19:11:00 -0600s; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>" Subject: RE: VMS source listings ?3 Message-ID: <NVaSZCoKllSd@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  W In article <01C2CE97.AD9FF4C0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:aI > A lecturer once told me, "You can write FORTRAN code in any language." e >   G    It's interesting how much Fortran Java learned so as not to get intoi!    the same probelms a C and C++.u  H    Since Kednos made PL/I available to hobbyists I think I'll spend someE    time learning PL/I.  Then I'll see how much Fortran I can write inf    PL/I.  )    OBTW:  is it Pee-El-One or Pee-El-Aye?m   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 07:57:14 GMTe- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)h0 Subject: Re: what limits the number of DECterms?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-PEZqddEzLlcZ@localhost>(  0 On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 13:47:47 UTC, Phillip Helbig + <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:E  F > Each Decterm window needs an event flag to wait on for non X events.G > As Efn 0 and Efn 24-31 are not available, this leaves Efn 1-23, so 23I5 > windows is the maximum for each Decterm Controller.  > 
 > I count 22:4  , Hm, well that explains one of our mysteries.  D A couple of weeks ago one of my colleagues (A) came and asked me to F broadcast (REPLY) a request to users to log out of the machine (M) on B which our compilers are installed (keeps the license cost down, I 3 understand). He wanted to do some compilation work.e  D Anyway, the max. number of interactive (~96 IIRC) sessions had been F breached for that machine. Further investigation showed that one user F (B) had 22 logins running. He was politely asked to log out and he didF but quick as a flash there were still 22 logins. Colleague A expressedC the view that everytime B made one session free another jumped in.  @ Ultimately it turned out that his login script on Solaris had a F 'create terminal on M with vmsterm' entry. So every time he created a C new terminal/process on Solaris it tried to create one on VMS. His e script has since been fixed :-)    -- a Cheers - Dave.  B PS A quick explanation. Our engineers now have NCD X-terminals on A their desks, which are hosted on Solaris. Development of our ADA eB software is being done with Rational APEX. The assembler version, C which the ADA will ultimately replace, is developed on VMS and the m@ test systems run on VMS. To access VMS they use 'vmsterm' under 2 Solaris to create sessions in the VMS environment.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 14:10:33 +0100t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)0 Subject: Re: what limits the number of DECterms?; Message-ID: <3e4501c9.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  : Phillip Helbig (HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com) wrote:D > I have thus used the old DECwindows session-manager interface onlyI > a handful of times.  On one of my ALPHAs at home, though, this comes uphH > by default.  (What determines this?  It's a 3000/600 and had 6.2 on itH > (and a commercial license) when it was given to me which I have since G > replaced (NOT upgraded) with 7.2-1 and a hobbyist license.)  I think yE > I'll leave it that way and learn the old DECwindows interface.  :-)   = It's determined by the symbol DECW$START_NEW_DESKTOP from thei( SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_APPS_SETUP.COM.  , Somewhen (1.2-5?) "true" became the default.   cu,r   Martin -- nG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmers4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/n;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dee   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.078 ************************es VMS's lot worse by comparison).   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:34:48 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <F4CdnaNMJvvec96jXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wr9 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,10,204v7 >>> 200 Port 10.204 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.$ <<< RETR morgage.exem >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/games/dfwlug/ouhep/fun/morgage.exe (10240 bytes) started.: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  9216 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,10,205<7 >>> 200 Port 10.205 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.c <<< RETR mort.comfh >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/games/dfwlug/ouhep/fun/mort.