0 INFO-VAX	Sun, 09 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 79      Contents: Re: Columbia+ Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + RE: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages + Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages  More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31  Re: Sending uppercase in RSH2 Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ... Re: The importance of ISV's  RE: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's A Re: VAX/Alpha power requirement vs. BillyBox ... was: hideousness  VaxELN HELP appreciated  RE: VMS source listings ?  VT100 as VAXstation console  Re: VT100 as VAXstation console ' Re: what limits the number of DECterms?  Re: [OT]Re:Columbia   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2003 17:14:45 -0600 ; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Re: Columbia 3 Message-ID: <vIXMNHPHhIzQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <-OqdnZ9hZO7qsdmjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: M > The point is that had an inspection of the tiles been carried out and found I > a problem *soon after they achieved orbit* (which presumably would have H > occurred had any inspection been done at all), it would not have takenH > 'another 2 weeks, 3 weeks', but only an additional few days beyond theM > planned mission duration (if indeed another shuttle could have been readied  > in that time).   Which could not happen.   J I found a real good document for those interested in accurate information.7 Check out http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq.html   1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamy 4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B 	Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 03 09:19:33 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages) Message-ID: <BT$mEz192WN0@elias.decus.ch>   U In article <00A1B21E.9EE0CF7F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: M > The OpenVMS web site -- now that it has been HorriPhied -- is unreadable at M > high resolutions.  Stop the fixed width tables (ie. <table...width="720">). N > It causes data within the tables to be cut-off 'blanked' and links in these M > areas are not accessible.  I came across this problem trying to obtain the  M > updated calling standard.  I'm tiring of having to view the document source   > to find information and links. >   I I can no longer see the titles in the index on the LHS from my Mac either D (well I can if I drag the mouse across where I think they might be).  J I colleague told me yesterday he had tried long and hard to find the WEBESG documentation via the search facility on the OpenVMS site, to no avail.   F I got it in one via Google, but for some reason my PrettyCrap box just  hung trying to access the links.     , > Unfortunately, this manual is also PDF. :( >   G Another colleague (this man really does hate windows) got Ghostscript / > Ghostview working to do that, and wrote a bit of DCL to do the: printing. I'll dig that out. Please pester me if I forget.   ; > How about a .PS file so I can print it out and review it?  > M > Why does HP now insist in making documentation that would typically only be M > read by zealous VMS bigots like myself impossible to read on anything other  > than BillyToys?  >   F Oh, I got the now normal Friday email from Interex yesterday, advisingF me of the latest updates to their site. Last Friday the site was down.G Yesterday I ventured there, only to find it hurt my eyes trying to read / their tiny fonts. The same disease, I'm afraid.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:58:22 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pagesT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D52@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Paul,    WEBES links:; http://h18023.www1.hp.com/support/svctools/webes/index.html   * Note that it is not specific to OpenVMS...   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    -----Original Message-----3 From: Paul Sture [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch]=20  Sent: February 8, 2003 3:20 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages    : In article <00A1B21E.9EE0CF7F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: B > The OpenVMS web site -- now that it has been HorriPhied -- is=20F > unreadable at high resolutions.  Stop the fixed width tables (ie.=20D > <table...width=3D"720">). It causes data within the tables to be = cut-off   J > 'blanked' and links in these areas are not accessible.  I came across=20E > this problem trying to obtain the updated calling standard.  I'm=20 I > tiring of having to view the document source to find information and=20  > links. >   B I can no longer see the titles in the index on the LHS from my MacF either (well I can if I drag the mouse across where I think they might be).  D I colleague told me yesterday he had tried long and hard to find theF WEBES documentation via the search facility on the OpenVMS site, to no avail.  F I got it in one via Google, but for some reason my PrettyCrap box just  hung trying to access the links.   =20 , > Unfortunately, this manual is also PDF. :( >   G Another colleague (this man really does hate windows) got Ghostscript / H Ghostview working to do that, and wrote a bit of DCL to do the printing.0 I'll dig that out. Please pester me if I forget. =20 ; > How about a .PS file so I can print it out and review it?  >=20H > Why does HP now insist in making documentation that would typically=20I > only be read by zealous VMS bigots like myself impossible to read on=20   > anything other than BillyToys? >=20  F Oh, I got the now normal Friday email from Interex yesterday, advisingF me of the latest updates to their site. Last Friday the site was down.G Yesterday I ventured there, only to find it hurt my eyes trying to read / their tiny fonts. The same disease, I'm afraid.    --=20 
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:16:39 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages/ Message-ID: <v4b0e865senc55@corp.supernews.com>   . A place to enter a request for change.  Maybe.   http://www.hpuseradvocacy.org/   Dave...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:38:36 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages2 Message-ID: <3E45BCA0.BB3B0B93@firstdbasource.com>   David Webb wrote:  > e > In article <3E43FF74.21682DF7@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: * > >And there, in nutshell, is the problem., > >The c.o.v most-frequent-writers, does not$ > >represent the VMS user community. > > - > >My *guess* is that >90% of those that have , > >to read VMS docs, acualy does this on (or, > >"from" or "through") a PC. They have a PC
 > >anyway....  > >  > >Jan-Erik Sderholm. > >  > K > And my guess is that >90% of those that have to read VMS docs may want to N > do it on a VMS system. They have a VMS system anyway - and most systems soldO > recently usually have a PC style monitor and graphics card on them - at least  > where I work.  > L > Whether my guess or your guess is representitive of the VMS user communityN > is impossible to gauge. The silent Majority don't speak hence the only guideG > we have to the VMS user community is those who post to forums such as  > comp.os.vms. > M > In my office - two people who manage VMS systems (myself and one other) and N > two other people who act as Oracle DBAs on VMS systems each have a VMS AlphaM > workstation on their desks. All but one of the systems down in the computer A > centre has a graphics monitor running X windows as its console. P > Of those 4 people I'm probably the only one who could be classed as a frequent > poster to comp.os.vms. >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  >  > >  > > $ > >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> > >> Survey starts now...  > >> > >> Me! > >> > >> Survey ends now...  > >> > >> Survey says... 100% > >>  G It is also difficult to get things like VPN tunnels working as a CLIENT F on a VMS box.  I can no longer use a dialup to get into my data centerG without using VPN.  My only "desktop" is my laptop which I take home in H case I am called in the middle of the night.  One must use the best toolB THAT IS AVAILABLE for the job.  Some of the apps I need may not beE readily available on VMS, so I must rely on my "pc" to do the job for F which it was intended.  A front-end to the servers.  DECWrite, DECCalcD are all so far out of date with the things I need to do my job, thatG it's like comparing apples and oranges.  The footprint of the laptop is E very small compared to having a VAX/Alphastation sitting on my cube - G not to mention it is usually 3 times a loud.  As someone said recently, 7 DEC/COMPAQ/HP lost the workstation war a long time ago.   G As far as a browser is concerned, it is getting more and more difficult B to find websites (- at leat the ones I am interested in) that willF actually work with anything but IE.  The one thing we will all have toG face one day is the fact that "our" internet is long gone.  replaced by G marketeers and scumbags (spammers).  We can gripe and complain and yell F and scream all we want, but it will be like spitting into a gale-forceG wind.  So, we either deal with it, or move to Montana where the nearest H telephone pole is hundreds of miles away and become a hermit without any technology at all.   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 12:57:47 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages' Message-ID: <3E45532B.26275FF6@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > [snip]5 >  I wonder what sort of strange things they've found 2 > lurking down below and clogging the sewer lines.  
 Mr. Hoffa?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:09:38 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell> Subject: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <mq6b4v8ei4vl5gvm4d3n7fnraavfjmv3bp@4ax.com>  E I have reinstalled openvms 7.2. I installed the hobbyist license from A the command prompt following installation as the procedure during E install differed from the license info I have from decus. Now, I need F to go into the directory containing motif and get it installed. When ID issure the "dir" command 150 files scroll by faster than I can focus: on them. What command to I issue to review the dir listing< slowly--something similar to the windows command dir | more?@ All help greatly appreciated. Eventually, my persistance at this  install just HAS to pay off. :-)    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 00:18:53 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)   Subject: Re: More dumb questions> Message-ID: <N7h1a.40356$HN5.150343@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  [ In article <mq6b4v8ei4vl5gvm4d3n7fnraavfjmv3bp@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: F >I have reinstalled openvms 7.2. I installed the hobbyist license fromB >the command prompt following installation as the procedure duringF >install differed from the license info I have from decus. Now, I needG >to go into the directory containing motif and get it installed. When I E >issure the "dir" command 150 files scroll by faster than I can focus ; >on them. What command to I issue to review the dir listing = >slowly--something similar to the windows command dir | more?   
 Hi Jasper,   $dir/pa   N You can use the "/page" qualifier for a few commands - it's very useful.  On a= slightly different topic, there is a "pipe" command, as well.   N Strictly speaking, I don't think you need to "go into the directory containingI motif" in order to install the motif software (at least I don't happen to  remember needing to do that). A >All help greatly appreciated. Eventually, my persistance at this ! >install just HAS to pay off. :-)  >   G Persistence pays off - even to the point of asking for help when you're  "stuck".   > ? >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- B >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!? >-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 19:19:36 -0500 & From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030208191828.091d2ff0@pop.rcn.com>  3 At 04:09 PM 2/8/2003 -0800, jasper wrote (in part):  >When I E >issure the "dir" command 150 files scroll by faster than I can focus ; >on them. What command to I issue to review the dir listing = >slowly--something similar to the windows command dir | more?    dir/page   will do what you want    Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 01:43:05 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>   Subject: Re: More dumb questions2 Message-ID: <3E45AFA2.AA5A57F8@firstdbasource.com>   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:  > ] > In article <mq6b4v8ei4vl5gvm4d3n7fnraavfjmv3bp@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: H > >I have reinstalled openvms 7.2. I installed the hobbyist license fromD > >the command prompt following installation as the procedure duringH > >install differed from the license info I have from decus. Now, I needI > >to go into the directory containing motif and get it installed. When I G > >issure the "dir" command 150 files scroll by faster than I can focus = > >on them. What command to I issue to review the dir listing ? > >slowly--something similar to the windows command dir | more?  >  > Hi Jasper, > 	 > $dir/pa  > P > You can use the "/page" qualifier for a few commands - it's very useful.  On a? > slightly different topic, there is a "pipe" command, as well.  > P > Strictly speaking, I don't think you need to "go into the directory containingK > motif" in order to install the motif software (at least I don't happen to  > remember needing to do that). C > >All help greatly appreciated. Eventually, my persistance at this # > >install just HAS to pay off. :-)  > >  > I > Persistence pays off - even to the point of asking for help when you're 
 > "stuck". >  > > A > >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- D > >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!A > >-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----  > C > _________________________________________________________________ C > Bradford J. Hamilton                    "All opinions are my own" 9 > bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm          "Lose the MAPS"     E a "pipe" specific example -- very much overkill since you you can use 
 DIR/PAGE :  % $pipe dir <dir> | type sys$input/page   < Pipe is quite powerful if you know what you are looking for.   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:45:12 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <44cb4vg6eou2lc1mp923qjv7qd13ukn3kk@4ax.com>  E On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:09:38 -0800, jasper <jasper@never.tell> wrote:   B Thanks to Bradford and Ken for the fast answers. I have the systemA installed, also the motif and tcp/ip packs. Still get no gui when B rebooting. The system always says "no graphics devices detected." E Now, the puzzling thing is that the graphics card--I forget the name, C but it is an equivalent of the ELSA Gloria Synergy card--works just A fine in my dual-booted linux. So, I am stumped. I need the gui to E navigate in vms. I find the dcl commands to be difficult and esoteric = to the extreme--nothing intuitive to me. So, I could use some D suggestions as to what video card I can install that will run in vmsD and linux. Then, perhaps, I can make some headway with learning vms.    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:13:34 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>   Subject: Re: More dumb questions2 Message-ID: <3E45B6C0.2CDDDA13@firstdbasource.com>  
 jasper wrote:  > G > On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:09:38 -0800, jasper <jasper@never.tell> wrote:  > D > Thanks to Bradford and Ken for the fast answers. I have the systemC > installed, also the motif and tcp/ip packs. Still get no gui when C > rebooting. The system always says "no graphics devices detected."  <snip>  0 What is the sygen parameter WINDW_SYSTEM set to?  C Did you attempt to start decwindows in the SYS$STARTUP directory?   3 Is the logical  DECW$IGNORE_DECWINDOWS set to TRUE?      --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:18:33 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)   Subject: Re: More dumb questions= Message-ID: <ZTi1a.41646$Ec4.35630@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   [ In article <44cb4vg6eou2lc1mp923qjv7qd13ukn3kk@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: F >On Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:09:38 -0800, jasper <jasper@never.tell> wrote: > C >Thanks to Bradford and Ken for the fast answers. I have the system B >installed, also the motif and tcp/ip packs. Still get no gui whenC >rebooting. The system always says "no graphics devices detected."  F >Now, the puzzling thing is that the graphics card--I forget the name,D >but it is an equivalent of the ELSA Gloria Synergy card--works justB >fine in my dual-booted linux. So, I am stumped. I need the gui toF >navigate in vms. I find the dcl commands to be difficult and esoteric> >to the extreme--nothing intuitive to me. So, I could use someE >suggestions as to what video card I can install that will run in vms   3 I have the following video card in my EV56 machine:   $ 0000   40 GZA:    9 PowerStorm 4D10T  M I previously had a(n) S3 ("Number Nine") card installed, which worked OK.  It K should work for linux, too.  I can understand why you would rather have the H Elsa Gloria card, instead.  Perhaps others can chime in with more useful information.  E >and linux. Then, perhaps, I can make some headway with learning vms.  >  > ? >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- B >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!? >-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 18:29:12 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <r4fb4v8s0hg4ljpghtb831nnnfs60p9ea7@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:18:33 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:     4 >I have the following video card in my EV56 machine: > % >0000   40 GZA:    9 PowerStorm 4D10T   F That's it! I also have the PowerStorm 4D10T, but I couldn't recall itsD name. Someone here told me it is the same as the ELSA Gloria Synergy card.     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:41:06 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)   Subject: Re: More dumb questions> Message-ID: <6dj1a.41694$HN5.155812@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  [ In article <r4fb4v8s0hg4ljpghtb831nnnfs60p9ea7@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: G >On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:18:33 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford  >J. Hamilton) wrote: >  > 5 >>I have the following video card in my EV56 machine:  >>& >>0000   40 GZA:    9 PowerStorm 4D10T > G >That's it! I also have the PowerStorm 4D10T, but I couldn't recall its E >name. Someone here told me it is the same as the ELSA Gloria Synergy  >card.  M ISTR that you have installed V7.2 of the OS.  If that is correct, you need to J install a patch for graphics support of this card (warning - wrapped URL):  M http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics-  v0100--4.README   N The README will explain about graphics support for this card; you then need to$ obtain, via FTP (wrapped URL again):  M http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics-  v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  K The instructions in the README should be sufficient for applying the patch.   
 Good luck! >  > ? >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- B >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!? >-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 19:09:31 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <r7hb4vcf7e7q6sh80af9cao2f0q2ttho4j@4ax.com>  0 On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:13:34 GMT, Michael Austin# <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:    <snip> > 1 >What is the sygen parameter WINDW_SYSTEM set to?   A Mike, I am so new to vms that I have no idea of how to check this  setting. What is the command?  > D >Did you attempt to start decwindows in the SYS$STARTUP directory?    F Yes, after receiving your reply I did. The answer was something to the effect "image file not found."  4 >Is the logical  DECW$IGNORE_DECWINDOWS set to TRUE?  F I tried "set decw$ignore_decwindows=true" and got a reply that made me? realize I had done this wrong. I don't understand commands yet.   A Can you tell me where I can find a comprehensive guide to vms dcl F commands? Being so new I am totally lost--even worse than when I first) installed a linux distribution years ago.       > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 19:12:17 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <tlhb4vc1h5u2qoh6gd1ksvc45g543v5tld@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:41:06 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:    > N >ISTR that you have installed V7.2 of the OS.  If that is correct, you need toK >install a patch for graphics support of this card (warning - wrapped URL):  > N >http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics- >v0100--4.README > O >The README will explain about graphics support for this card; you then need to % >obtain, via FTP (wrapped URL again):  > N >http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics- >v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  > L >The instructions in the README should be sufficient for applying the patch. >  >Good luck!   F Thanks a million, Brad! I'll get right on it. Having the gui will help this dumbie immensely.      > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:25:39 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)   Subject: Re: More dumb questions, Message-ID: <TSj1a.40864$be.29496@rwcrnsc53>  [ In article <r7hb4vcf7e7q6sh80af9cao2f0q2ttho4j@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: 1 >On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:13:34 GMT, Michael Austin $ ><maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: <snip>  F If you have access to a PC running Windows, you can use this tutorial:  0 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm  J This bills itself as a "Primer for System Managers" - this may not contain8 everything you are looking for, but it's a decent start.  B >Can you tell me where I can find a comprehensive guide to vms dclG >commands? Being so new I am totally lost--even worse than when I first * >installed a linux distribution years ago. >  >  > ? >-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- B >http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!? >-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 20:59:33 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <itnb4vcufr9u4umfnnarpe1pn0uganv815@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:25:39 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:    > 1 >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm  > K >This bills itself as a "Primer for System Managers" - this may not contain 9 >everything you are looking for, but it's a decent start.   @ Hey, Brad, thanks a lot for this info. I have already d/l'ed theB readme and the patch file. Will attempt to install tomorrow if the2 wife lets me have time to play with the computers.    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 21:48:49 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <8oqb4voupht4vg44dprlq001439l3uqk9q@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:41:06 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:  > N >http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics- >v0100--4.README > O >The README will explain about graphics support for this card; you then need to % >obtain, via FTP (wrapped URL again):  > N >http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics- >v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe  > L >The instructions in the README should be sufficient for applying the patch. >  >Good luck!   E Thanks again, Brad. I replied to this, in error, to another response. F I have both files and will install the patch as soon as the wife gives1 me "honeydo" time off. Much appreciate your help.     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 21:51:02 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <9vqb4vgrdgadlorfl6ovom79s2crofnnep@4ax.com>  F On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 03:25:39 GMT, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:   \ >In article <r7hb4vcf7e7q6sh80af9cao2f0q2ttho4j@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes:2 >>On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:13:34 GMT, Michael Austin% >><maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:  ><snip>  > G >If you have access to a PC running Windows, you can use this tutorial:  > 1 >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm  > K >This bills itself as a "Primer for System Managers" - this may not contain 9 >everything you are looking for, but it's a decent start.   F Went to the site and perused the Primer. They are having some problems@ with the server that prevent any interaction, but I shall return) later. If need be I'll print it all out.  
 Thanks again.     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 04:24:43 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <-sicnVWsb6J4UdmjXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0302072330.5177c44b@posting.google.com... > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# news:<3E447A70.C9E253D2@fsi.net>...  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > > : > > > "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message= > > > news:734da31c.0302070841.2b44642a@posting.google.com...  > > > 	 > > > ...   > > > > Was the alphacide such a# > > > > hard thing in your life? :)  > > > J > > > Not at all:  it simply exceeded a disgust threshold which demanded a > > > response.  > > J > > I share Bill's concern here. Had the event not been preceded by publicJ > > commitments which were publicly broken by the event, it would probablyB > > have passed quietly as a normal event in the overall scheme of > > technological advances.  > > H > > When a company plays its user base (read: it's lifeblood) for blind,> > > ignorant fools, that demands an unequivocal response, IMO. >  > I agree fully with the above.  > F > But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some people= > opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed.   F It is more that there would have been no cause for complaint had AlphaK development continued.  If Itanic ever achieved superiority, then having it I as an option would be great; if not, then having it as an option would do K little harm (as long as not too much VMS development effort was diverted to L the port causing main-line development to suffer) and might still expose VMSI to some people who would otherwise use something else due to a preference ! for 'industry-standard' hardware.   2 When Compaq instead sacrificed Alpha to Itanic, it  K - broke (without comment, let alone apology) extremely explicit promises it : had made about Alpha's longevity and development schedule,  L - faced customers with the eventual need to port to a new hardware platform,  K - deprived customers of any competitive advantage that Alpha had given them ? (starting at the latest in 2004, when EV8 would have appeared),   H - lied extensively about the circumstances surrounding the decision, and  C - raised serious doubts about its commitment to *any* 'proprietary' D technology (VMS being perhaps the most prominent example remaining).    ItaniumC > have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with the  > Alpha retirement.   J Not really:  the loss of Alpha just highlighted the fact that Itanic is anK inferior platform, whereas otherwise it would simply have been a non-issue.   5  The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does noto > make Itanium better or worse.t  H Absolutely correct.  However, one should not lose sight of the fact thatK while Itanic2 has become a performance-competitive processor (unlike Itanic L the First, which was an utter fiasco), it still has multiple weaknesses when* compared with the better RISC competition:  H - higher power consumption (more expensive both to run and to cool; less. amenable to high-density - e.g., blade - use),  D - larger die area (more expensive to build, less room to incorporate9 desirable ancillary features such as EV7's on-chip glue),e  E - greater dependence upon feedback-directed compiler optimizations to G achieve competitive performance (which means that the large majority of D software won't achieve anything like the performance that benchmarksI suggest - especially as existing binaries migrate to newer members of the + architecture than they were optimized for),   G - greater dependence on leading-edge compiler development in general toiH achieve competitive performance (if similar efforts were applied to RISC/ compilers, they'd be faster than they are now),o  J - and there's some reason to believe that improving its performance beyondJ current levels (aside from advances due to normal process shrinks) will beH more difficult than would be the case with a good RISC architecture likeF Alpha's (or, to put it another way, many of the tricks Itanic2 uses toJ achieve performance would be equally applicable to, and easily added to, aJ processor like Alpha, but the converse does not seem nearly as true, sinceG the EPIC architecture and Itanic's specific implementation of it do note< appear conducive to additions such as SMT or OoO execution).  G That's why I still characterize Itanic2 as a pig.  By dint of HerculeaniL efforts its engineers have gotten it to fly, but it remains (for the reasons- noted above) a pig, where Alpha was an eagle.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:06:00 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <dNWdnTDKNfnK4tijXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagee, news:x9WcnbmpN67MxtijXTWcqw@metrocast.net...   ...e    (on-chip cachee= > takes up about 57% of the 'large' version's total die size)   F Whoops - that's on Madison.  On McKinley, the cache on the large-cache1 version takes up about 43% of the total die size.q   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:26:26 -0400/0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <3E4575F7.2BE074DB@vl.videotron.ca>9   David Svensson wrote:@F > But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some peopleE > opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed. Itanium0C > have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with thesH > Alpha retirement. The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does not > make Itanium better or worse.o  I Please remmeber that not only did Digital/Compaq make hard commitments oniK Alpha right up until the last minute, but they also release plenty of whiteeK papers and spoke at presentations about just how inferior IA64 was to Alpha N and how it was unlikely IA64 could keep up with Alpha because its architecture was bloated etc etc.  J Then, one day, some lying son of a bitch murders Alpha and gives argumentsM that are a full 180 degrees from previous statements, AND it becomes apparentuM that this had been planned ever since that lying son of a bitch was installed  as head of Compaq.  N When a company betrays its customers, it should NOT get away with it. CapellasK should have been investigated by the SEC instead of given a "honest" job ato0 Worldcom to try to rebuild that corrupt company.  J Capellas knowingly lied to customers. How can you trust a vendor that does3 this and kills your long term architectural plans ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 21:42:58 -0500u( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31, Message-ID: <3E45C032.7070309@tsoft-inc.com>   David Svensson wrote:   B > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<-> > > M >>- deprived customers of any competitive advantage that Alpha had given them A >>(starting at the latest in 2004, when EV8 would have appeared),r >> > ? > I am not that convinced of the superiority of EV8 as you are.     L There are many who would disagree with you.  Regardless, it a question that O cannot be answered, because there is no such thing as an EV8.  All that can be yL looked at it the projections, and EV8 definitely was a winner at that stage.    J >>- higher power consumption (more expensive both to run and to cool; less0 >>amenable to high-density - e.g., blade - use), >> > B > Yes, that is a problem, but EV7 and Power have the same problem.    ( Nowhere near the same amount of problem.    F >>- larger die area (more expensive to build, less room to incorporate; >>desirable ancillary features such as EV7's on-chip glue),p >> > D > I agree. But I don't see that IA-64 in general must have large die > size.     M Oh no?  Then there goes your on chip cache, and without that IA-64 is just a  O glorified heater.  The only reason IA-64 is showing any competitiveness is the e> hugh amounts of on chip cache, in comparison to any other CPU.    G >>- greater dependence upon feedback-directed compiler optimizations toeI >>achieve competitive performance (which means that the large majority ofsF >>software won't achieve anything like the performance that benchmarksK >>suggest - especially as existing binaries migrate to newer members of thek- >>architecture than they were optimized for),r >> > A > All benchmarks (especially SPEC benchmarks) today are made with2A > profile guided optimizations, not just for Itanium. I have seeni@ > tremendous performance improvements with IPO on x86 and Alpha.    Q Maybe so, but in the real world, people do not often perform such optimizations. nC   You don't see much shrink wrapped software available in multiple  L optimizations, do you?  It may happen in a few cases, but normally not, and M other CPUs seem to be able to provide adequate performance increases without e jumping through such hoops.     I >>- greater dependence on leading-edge compiler development in general to J >>achieve competitive performance (if similar efforts were applied to RISC1 >>compilers, they'd be faster than they are now),L >> > @ > I agree with the first statement. I really don't see that as a
 > problem.    5 You will should the dependance not be adequately fed.     L >>- and there's some reason to believe that improving its performance beyondL >>current levels (aside from advances due to normal process shrinks) will beJ >>more difficult than would be the case with a good RISC architecture likeH >>Alpha's (or, to put it another way, many of the tricks Itanic2 uses toL >>achieve performance would be equally applicable to, and easily added to, aL >>processor like Alpha, but the converse does not seem nearly as true, sinceI >>the EPIC architecture and Itanic's specific implementation of it do not6> >>appear conducive to additions such as SMT or OoO execution). >> > E > If Intel can keep a steady increase in Mhz I think Itanium will getpE > very fast. Itanium is today the fastest CPU on a given Mhz. I guess/E > OoO is out of the question for IA-64, but SMT will most likely give  > great improvements.3    E I haven't looked lately, but I have the impression that IA-64 became :M competitive, not the leader in performance.  And only when running on the HP rO chipset.  Intel doesn't yet have a chipset for it, according to what I've read.o  M MHz isn't performance.  It's boosting the clock speed.  It will help in some n things, but isn't everything.T   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 12:19:36 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E454A38.1546FA54@fsi.net>    David Svensson wrote:J > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E447A70.C9E253D2@fsi.net>...
 > > [snip]J > > I share Bill's concern here. Had the event not been preceded by publicJ > > commitments which were publicly broken by the event, it would probablyB > > have passed quietly as a normal event in the overall scheme of > > technological advances.i > > H > > When a company plays its user base (read: it's lifeblood) for blind,> > > ignorant fools, that demands an unequivocal response, IMO. >  > I agree fully with the above.n > F > But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some peopleE > opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed. ItaniumSC > have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with the H > Alpha retirement. The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does not > make Itanium better or worse.'  E In so far as your last sentence is true, yes - you are quite correct.o  D The issue on the AlphaCide, however, is not a question of individualE opinion, rather it is a question of industry-wide perception, and onet4 that is easily substantiated through random polling.  @ Essentially, and this is my speculation now, HP/Q have taken theC position that success with Itanic is a foregone conclusion. This isCE entirely proper, under "normal" circumstances. However, there remains A the problem of selling: in the prospects eyes, the success of anytD vendor's proposal is *NOT* a foregone conclusion, rather the onus ofG proof (or at least convincing) remains on the vendor, not the prospect.   A Thus arises the primary conflict: the prospect sees the operating > system's sole hardware platform as having a pre-determined (ifD artificial) end-of-life established by the vendor rather than by theC pressures of the market and, therefore, having no forseeable futureoH since the prososed replacement platform has yet to emerge in the greaterF marketplace. The vendor, on the other hand, views the operating systemC as having a brighter and longer future based on the move to what itnG hopes will become an industry-standard processor - that is, putting allmH of VMS's eggs in a vapor-ware basket and expecting no loss, perhaps evenE gains in the process (psych. students: what is the technical term forlG the syndrome typified by such actions?). These two paradigms are nearlyl diametrically opposed.  > So again, it's not a question of sentiment, it's a question of@ incompatible paradigms: HP/Q have assumed a paradigm wherein theF position taken renders marketing moot: the advertising of a product inB such a state would be totally illogical, positively incredible and? borders on the incomprehensible, not to mention sheer insanity.   C That is to say, your first sentence there is quite correct: had the D Itanic port been announced sans the EOL of Alpha, HP/Q would be in aF *VASTLY* more powerful position as opposed to the inescapable quagmire$ in which it currently finds itself.   H The future of VMS is inexhorably tied to the future of Itanic. If Itanic7 sinks, VMS sleeps with the fishes right along with it. w  G Consider: the passengers and crew of RMS Titanic imagined themselves tobE be on the most trustworthy, invulnerable ship of the time. The maiden / voyage disaster became both history and legend.-  H The "passengers" and "crew" of VMS Itanic likewise imagine themselves to& be on a powerful, "unsinkable" vessel.  B Those who do not learn the lessons taught by the great failures of" history are doomed to repeat them.  C ...IMHO, YMMV considerably, possibly even to the point of diametrici opposition.o   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 12:47:26 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E4550BE.8B241137@fsi.net>g   David Svensson wrote:u > [snip]P > My overall point is that you could at least be a bit positive once in a while.+ > Is really everything negative these days?/  H No, but sometimes the glass *IS* half-empty, and insisting that it isn't2 leads one into the realms of denial and delusion.   F By way of example, if you don't feel the pain, you're not motivated to? resolve its cause. Pain being a harbinger of potentially lethalRC conditions, this has certain implications. One can deny the pain of.0 gangrene until it claims your life, for example.  H The "constant harping" (some call it "bleating") of certain participantsH in this forum is a small, if questionably effective, contribution to theF preservation of VMS's "life". If we could do more, we certainly would,	 I'm sure.c   -- f David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:32:22 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <x9WcnbmpN67MxtijXTWcqw@metrocast.net>  4 "David Svensson" <icerq4a@spray.se> wrote in message7 news:734da31c.0302081032.2c13259f@posting.google.com... B > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<-> >J > > - deprived customers of any competitive advantage that Alpha had given themC > > (starting at the latest in 2004, when EV8 would have appeared),E >t? > I am not that convinced of the superiority of EV8 as you are.   I Intel seems to have been sufficiently convinced of the superiority of therJ EV8 team to entrust it with rescuing Itanic from what appears otherwise toB have been a design dead-end.  And EV7 has already demonstrated theE superiority of the ancillary on-chip enhancements that EV8 would have-H enjoyed as well, plus the fact that the aging EV6 core (designed by thatG same team, IIRC) can still equal the best that Itanic can offer 4 yearsi later.  K So once again, while you can hold any opinion you choose to don't expect it:/ to be respected without evidence to back it up.o   >uL > > - higher power consumption (more expensive both to run and to cool; less2 > > amenable to high-density - e.g., blade - use), >oB > Yes, that is a problem, but EV7 and Power have the same problem.  L No, they don't - not at all.  POWER drives *two* cores with roughly the sameI total power consumption (the up-coming PPC970 product, with only a single L core, and power consumption in the 19 - 42 W range, is tailor-made for bladeK and mobile applications), and EV7's power drives the equivalent of Itanic'si; entire chipset (memory controller plus routing mechanisms).s   >DH > > - larger die area (more expensive to build, less room to incorporate= > > desirable ancillary features such as EV7's on-chip glue),, >sD > I agree. But I don't see that IA-64 in general must have large die > size.d  D Take a look at the 7.5% (on SPECint2K_base) - 10% (on SPECfp2K_base)H performance penalty the 'little' Itanic2 suffers (over and above its 10%J slower clock rate - and this somewhat generously assumes that scores scaleL exactly linearly with clock rate) with half the on-chip cache (on-chip cacheJ takes up about 57% of the 'large' version's total die size).  EPIC appearsJ more sensitive to cache than, say, Alpha:  give up its cache (i.e., reduce; the chip size) and you give up its competitive performance.e   >lI > > - greater dependence upon feedback-directed compiler optimizations topK > > achieve competitive performance (which means that the large majority ofiH > > software won't achieve anything like the performance that benchmarksI > > suggest - especially as existing binaries migrate to newer members of  thea/ > > architecture than they were optimized for),, > A > All benchmarks (especially SPEC benchmarks) today are made with A > profile guided optimizations, not just for Itanium. I have seenn@ > tremendous performance improvements with IPO on x86 and Alpha.  J I haven't studied x86 scores carefully, but Alpha has not benefited nearlyH as much in *base* score improvement as Itanic appears to (Itanic doesn'tF usually list peak scores, and when it does they usually equal the baseH score).  Part of this may be compiler switch gaming:  SPEC allows only aE limited number of switches to be used for base scores, and while HP'sAJ compiler seems to incorporate all available FDO in a single switch Alpha'sI compiler requires at least 3 switches to cover all the FDO territory (its G SPECint_base score uses only one, and its SPECfp_base score uses none).e  I And there's at least some indication that with no FDO Itanic2 base scoreseH fall by 15% - 20+% (HP quietly released comparative compiler scores in a* white paper last July which suggest this).   >pK > > - greater dependence on leading-edge compiler development in general to1L > > achieve competitive performance (if similar efforts were applied to RISC3 > > compilers, they'd be faster than they are now),n >r@ > I agree with the first statement. I really don't see that as a
 > problem.   Ask anyone who uses gcc.   >tG > > - and there's some reason to believe that improving its performancez beyondK > > current levels (aside from advances due to normal process shrinks) willf beL > > more difficult than would be the case with a good RISC architecture likeJ > > Alpha's (or, to put it another way, many of the tricks Itanic2 uses toL > > achieve performance would be equally applicable to, and easily added to, aeH > > processor like Alpha, but the converse does not seem nearly as true, since K > > the EPIC architecture and Itanic's specific implementation of it do notP@ > > appear conducive to additions such as SMT or OoO execution). >wE > If Intel can keep a steady increase in Mhz I think Itanium will get0= > very fast. Itanium is today the fastest CPU on a given Mhz.-  I The lowly MIPS R14K matches it on SPECint/MHz and EV7 completely blows it<H away on any memory-bandwidth-sensitive benchmarks, but that's hardly theL point:  the metric itself is bogus.  After all, AMD's processors trounce P4sK on a per-MHz basis, but that doesn't make them faster (well, in a few casesrL it actually does, but not enough to be very significant - though that should change with Hammer).  9 Intel's own Xeon processors (server-level components with G similarly-conservative clock margins) run 2.8 times as fast as Itanic2.IL AMD's 180 nm Athlons (which have much shorter pipelines than P4/Xeon and are= comparable in length to Itanic2 when you ignore the front-endEJ instruction-cracking steps that Itanic doesn't require) clock nearly twiceL as fast.  So don't expect Intel to be able to pull faster clock rates out ofG a magic hat:  they're limited by architecture and by power consumption.M    I guessE > OoO is out of the question for IA-64, but SMT will most likely give  > great improvements.o  J Whether Itanic would ever have successfully acquired SMT without the AlphaJ team is questionable (thus the competitive advantage that Alpha could haveH retained for its customers had it not been abandoned).  For that matter,H whether it will even *with* the Alpha team is hardly certain (and in anyG case not before 2006 - 2007:  2 - 3 years after EV8 would have had it).t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 13:01:24 -0600L1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l% Subject: Re: Sending uppercase in RSH & Message-ID: <3E455404.C6BF873@fsi.net>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > Try "lpstat -R"x > 3 > (That is, add double-quotes to your RSH command.)g > ( > Not sure it helps, but I'd try that...   FWIW...n  F In certain cases when dealing with ISM Cache' (FKA ISM Mumps), command/ line options need to be specified in this form:d   $ CACHE -"U" namespace   Perhapse  
 $ lpstat "-R"K   ...or...  
 $ lpstat -"R",   ...may prove effective.    Dunno...   -- v David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 00:29:57 GMTn3 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US>o; Subject: Re: SKHPC slaps Gartner, naysayers on comp vms ...,5 Message-ID: <3E453090.6C2756EB@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US>_   Russell Wallace wrote: > G > I'm curious: on what basis is Betamax superior to VHS? From what I'vem > heard: > @ > - Betamax could freeze frame without flicker; but this isn't a > requirement.  G   VHS could do this also, it required 4 heads while Beta did it with 3.j  F > - Betamax at least initially couldn't store a whole movie on a tape;# > this definitely is a requirement.2  J   The one hour time limitation of Beta was removed with the x2 (BII) speed introduced around 1978.   E   I have a list at http://toyvax.glendale.ca.us/~vance/betaphile.htmlh  A   It lists the benefits from the design of the format and doesn't F mention the extra features, like BetaScan - going from play to forwardM scan at a press of a button and back to play at its release, and BetaSkipScan/H - going from full fast forward, to forward scan at the press of a button% and back to full scan on its release.e  E > Dear God, they kept producing Betamax all the way up to a couple of:F > months ago? Must be that Japanese code of honor thing. I'd rate that) > as keeping their promise and then some.   2   They stopped selling them in the US around 1998.  G   So "forever" means 10 years to you?  How have your marriage(s) workede out?  F   I'm getting tired of seeing marketing which are outright lies.  SuchF as CPU upgrades which promise "100% hardware and software compatible".  #   This is getting very off topic...4   -- Vance Haemmerle4   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:07:10 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's/ Message-ID: <v4avsen4mti30a@corp.supernews.com>f  I Wonder if Bob Blatz shouldn't be made aware of this.  Or Mark Gorham.  Oro Scott Stallard.w   Dave...a  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC news:HCX0a.294684$pDv.93953@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...E >EB > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, > news:wjW0a.706$he4.571@news.cpqcorp.net.../ > > Is the end user a current OpenVMS customer?c > >m4 > > What is the opportunity (systems, service, etc)? > >tE > > Is the 3rd party tool something widely used by Oracle users?  Ared > their ! > > alternatives that run on VMS?C > >nF > > I'm not a salesman, but depending on the answers -- I'll do what I > can toF > > direct it to the right person.  You might directly contact someone
 > like SueB > > Skonetski if you believe that there is an opportunity (who can > probably findt. > > and reach the right person better than I). >M >iE > I appreciate the offer Fred, but there's really nothing that can be,H > done. The tool is a widely used enterprise-class reporting tool from aH > company on the west coast. It has never been available on VMS althoughH > the vendor at one point did have a Tru64 version, but no longer. It isD > available on HP-UX but I have no inclination to push that piece ofH > .... on them, and they have no inclination to go that route. There wasE > an interest expressed in the EV7 machines but when we looked at the @ > availability of the reporting tool (no Linux version available > either), it was a dead-end.s > E > Had the tool been available on Tru64/Linux, I'm 100% convinced that D > they would have been at your customer benchmark lab door on Monday > morning with data in hand. >m > H > My point in all of this, as has been made by many others here, is thatH > the lack of marketing is what has removed the legs from under OpenVMS,A > killed Tru64 in the market, and gutted the ISV market for theset > operating systems. >nD > Tru64 is a better unix than HP-UX, yet it is HP-UX that has marketB > share. Technically, and probably financially, HP would have beenC > better off simply paying ISV's to port their unported products to E > Tru64 (which would have been renamed to OpenHP-UX, and retiring the2G > original HP-UX) rather than doing the organ-donor thing from Tru64 tot > HP-UX. >-C > OpenVMS is a better o/s that Tru64 for many/most mission-critical0G > needs, yet it has no traction except for installed accounts, and even . > with them it has less traction all the time. >SA > It isn't due to techincal inferiority of either Tru64 or VMS oruH > Alpha - just the inferior decision making and gutless hand-wringing ofF > senior people at Digital/Compaq/HP. They remind me of Lady Macbeth - > "Out, out damn spot."p >nF > Almost any ten people who are regulars in c.o.v. or Encompass forumsF > could do a better job marketing VMS and Alpha than Digital/Compaq/HPF > has done in the past 5 years. Give us a budget and we'll make waves, > effectively. >t >R >M   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:14:16 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>a$ Subject: RE: The importance of ISV'sT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9C82@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,f  G >>> I appreciate the offer Fred, but there's really nothing that can bewF done. The tool is a widely used enterprise-class reporting tool from a company on the west coast.<<<5  E As Fred mentioned, this may be 100% correct, but I would suggest thatcH escalating and/or identifying the opportunity to Sue will ensure it gets3 some visibility as to lost opportunities for HP.=20c  B Also, unknown to you, perhaps there have been other cases where anG opportunity for this specific product was reported? More examples wouldfC help build the business case for making it available on OpenVMS.=20   D Just letting it go will ensure the opportunity gets zero visibility.   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMl   -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20s Sent: February 7, 2003 6:50 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's      @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:wjW0a.706$he4.571@news.cpqcorp.net...- > Is the end user a current OpenVMS customer?n >"2 > What is the opportunity (systems, service, etc)? >mC > Is the 3rd party tool something widely used by Oracle users?  Are  their3 > alternatives that run on VMS?a >rD > I'm not a salesman, but depending on the answers -- I'll do what I can toD > direct it to the right person.  You might directly contact someone like Sue@ > Skonetski if you believe that there is an opportunity (who can
 probably findw, > and reach the right person better than I).    C I appreciate the offer Fred, but there's really nothing that can berF done. The tool is a widely used enterprise-class reporting tool from aF company on the west coast. It has never been available on VMS althoughF the vendor at one point did have a Tru64 version, but no longer. It isG available on HP-UX but I have no inclination to push that piece of .... D on them, and they have no inclination to go that route. There was an@ interest expressed in the EV7 machines but when we looked at theG availability of the reporting tool (no Linux version available either),0 it was a dead-end.  H Had the tool been available on Tru64/Linux, I'm 100% convinced that theyE would have been at your customer benchmark lab door on Monday morning  with data in hand.    F My point in all of this, as has been made by many others here, is thatF the lack of marketing is what has removed the legs from under OpenVMS,? killed Tru64 in the market, and gutted the ISV market for theset operating systems.  B Tru64 is a better unix than HP-UX, yet it is HP-UX that has marketG share. Technically, and probably financially, HP would have been better G off simply paying ISV's to port their unported products to Tru64 (whichhF would have been renamed to OpenHP-UX, and retiring the original HP-UX)< rather than doing the organ-donor thing from Tru64 to HP-UX.  H OpenVMS is a better o/s that Tru64 for many/most mission-critical needs,H yet it has no traction except for installed accounts, and even with them" it has less traction all the time.  G It isn't due to techincal inferiority of either Tru64 or VMS or Alpha - E just the inferior decision making and gutless hand-wringing of senior G people at Digital/Compaq/HP. They remind me of Lady Macbeth - "Out, outc damn spot."u  D Almost any ten people who are regulars in c.o.v. or Encompass forumsH could do a better job marketing VMS and Alpha than Digital/Compaq/HP has@ done in the past 5 years. Give us a budget and we'll make waves, effectively.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 16:49:08 -0600i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's' Message-ID: <3E458964.58653709@fsi.net>u   Dave Gudewicz wrote: > K > Wonder if Bob Blatz shouldn't be made aware of this.  Or Mark Gorham.  Or  > Scott Stallard.t  > If you're offering to spearhead another attempt at getting VMSC management to listen to reason, I'm behind you 100%. What can I do?a   -- m David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:11:08 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's/ Message-ID: <v4balg9h4vhd57@corp.supernews.com>-  H When I send notes to these guys, first thing they'll probably ask for isI more detail.  Don't blame 'em, they can't attempt a fix of something they  know very little about.-   Dave...W  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E458964.58653709@fsi.net...1 > Dave Gudewicz wrote: > >.I > > Wonder if Bob Blatz shouldn't be made aware of this.  Or Mark Gorham.a Or > > Scott Stallard.D >s@ > If you're offering to spearhead another attempt at getting VMSE > management to listen to reason, I'm behind you 100%. What can I do?6 >@ > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 01:35:35 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV'sK Message-ID: <Hfi1a.613387$F2h1.552342@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>p  1 "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net> wrote in message ) news:v4avsen4mti30a@corp.supernews.com... ? > Wonder if Bob Blatz shouldn't be made aware of this.  Or Markn Gorham.  Ora > Scott Stallard.n   Made aware of what?n  & That VMS isn't marketed or advertised?  ( That what little they do is ineffectual?  C That there are fewer ISV's for VMS now than there ever were for alle% categories of tools and applications?o  F That what ISV's need is the confidence that the platforms they develop9 software for have an increasing market share with lots ofi price-insensitive customers?  A Those guys aren't stupid people. While they seem to have a lot of D responsibility to do things they also appear to have no authority to@ do anything about it, otherwise there would have been noticeableE demonstrations of that authority in the Wall Street Journal and othereB leading business publications worldwide, on TV, in trade rags, and elsewhere prior to today.t  D But they probably also know that there's no press like bad press andC that June 25, 2001 was bad press, and that if you help one customer F you might get one good reference but if you 'injure' a customer you'll get 20 bad references.  = Forgive my cynicism and bluntness, but responsibility withoutsB authority is a losing proposition for any person in any job. And a losing proposition for VMS.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 01:49:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> $ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV'sJ Message-ID: <Ysi1a.613569$F2h1.36214@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageF news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9C82@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcor p.net... >John,  F >> I appreciate the offer Fred, but there's really nothing that can beB >> done. The tool is a widely used enterprise-class reporting tool from a >> company on the west coast.r  F >As Fred mentioned, this may be 100% correct, but I would suggest thatD >escalating and/or identifying the opportunity to Sue will ensure it gets1 >some visibility as to lost opportunities for HP.a  C >Also, unknown to you, perhaps there have been other cases where anwB >opportunity for this specific product was reported? More examples wouldiA >help build the business case for making it available on OpenVMS.v  E >Just letting it go will ensure the opportunity gets zero visibility.s    ? We will be having further discussions with the customer and the B reporting tool vendor on Monday/Tuesday to see if a Tru64 or Linux8 'port' would be something the ISV would entertain doing.  E Since the tool already exists on several unix variants, I can't see asE big issue in doing a port to Tru64/Linux from a technical perspectivew@ other than perhaps some little vs. big-endian stuff (but withoutF knowing the internals it's really impossible to say for sure) - ratherB it will be a business case issue for the vendor...platform support issues, and costs.  E For the customer, the big issue right now is that they are past their C 'go live' date on this project and are trying to get it launched. Al? port, even if it is nothing more than compile and link, isn't aiD product until all the nuances of a 'new' platform are understood and6 2nd or 3rd level tech support are aware of the issues.  C If the vendor appears to be interested, then I or my associate, canrC make the call to Fred/Sue/you with all the gory details and put alln1 the interested parties in touch with one another.c   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 02:21:44 GMTl1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's2 Message-ID: <3E45B8AD.7B9CBE91@firstdbasource.com>   John Smith wrote:h > 4 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageH > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9C82@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcor
 > p.net... > >John, > H > >> I appreciate the offer Fred, but there's really nothing that can beD > >> done. The tool is a widely used enterprise-class reporting tool > from a > >> company on the west coast.c > H > >As Fred mentioned, this may be 100% correct, but I would suggest thatF > >escalating and/or identifying the opportunity to Sue will ensure it > gets3 > >some visibility as to lost opportunities for HP.  > E > >Also, unknown to you, perhaps there have been other cases where an0D > >opportunity for this specific product was reported? More examples > woulduC > >help build the business case for making it available on OpenVMS.4 > G > >Just letting it go will ensure the opportunity gets zero visibility.h > A > We will be having further discussions with the customer and the D > reporting tool vendor on Monday/Tuesday to see if a Tru64 or Linux: > 'port' would be something the ISV would entertain doing. > G > Since the tool already exists on several unix variants, I can't see aaG > big issue in doing a port to Tru64/Linux from a technical perspectiveqB > other than perhaps some little vs. big-endian stuff (but withoutH > knowing the internals it's really impossible to say for sure) - ratherD > it will be a business case issue for the vendor...platform support > issues, and costs. > G > For the customer, the big issue right now is that they are past theirnE > 'go live' date on this project and are trying to get it launched. A A > port, even if it is nothing more than compile and link, isn't aiF > product until all the nuances of a 'new' platform are understood and8 > 2nd or 3rd level tech support are aware of the issues. > E > If the vendor appears to be interested, then I or my associate, canyE > make the call to Fred/Sue/you with all the gory details and put alld3 > the interested parties in touch with one another.c  E Just my $.02 worth, why not give them the gory details anyway and lettG them push from that side as well.  When a company like HP speaks.. most,E ISV's will at least take the call and listen.  As has been suggested, E they may also have additional information or interest in this product46 that you, your client and the ISV know nothing about.   D I have always used the "shotgun" approach and it seems to work -- in@ some cases - much better than a "rifle" approach.  Don't let theE "client" stand in the way of potential benefit to the rest of the VMSaG community.  These reporting tools are necessary at all companies and ifsH I knew what the product was, we might be interested in it as well.  MostH companies are trying to "consolidate" their reporting environments.  And@ VMS is the platform that can deliver enterprise-class reporting.   -- e Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:15:09 -0400g0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>J Subject: Re: VAX/Alpha power requirement vs. BillyBox ... was: hideousness/ Message-ID: <3E457354.4FDBBA2D@vl.videotron.ca>s  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:eK > The load is ~50% (you can see for yourself at http://www.tmesis.com:2798)g   Show off ! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)  Q So, now we're getting into a "my UPS is bigger than yours" pissing contest ??????e   :-) :-)u  K out of curiosity, how does the above work ? Is this some VMS based softwarenM that polls your UPS, or is this the UPS that actually responds to the request H because your router routes the call to the UPS box with a buiilt-in HTTP server ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 00:38:39 +01002 From: "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" <hofmanwb@worldonline.nl>  Subject: VaxELN HELP appreciated- Message-ID: <b244h8$lnh$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>o   Hi All,e  L VAXELN is new to me, but I am reasonably at home in the internals of RSX11M,E MTS and OS 360. I was called in by the application programmer when hed$ encountered a somewhat deep problem.J One or two times a month in the 3rd of three RT1000 running V4.0 of VAXELNI the two communications tasks with the microVax 3300 running VMS 5.2 stop.pJ One with access violation, reason mask 05 and one with access violation orK with a kernel stack not valid exception. These tasks are identical and eachnL serves its own sorting unit. The VAXELN systems use the DDCMP_V2 module. TheJ systems run continuously. The stop address is for both tasks always in the4 DAP module (from june 7 1989) at 1FFC from the startG It looks as if the FP register contains 0 during the last CLRB -4C4(FP)pG intruction.I conclude this from the virtual address =FFFFFB3C message..fE The system stopped at the same location during startup earlier in thesI project each time when the 3rd realtime vax was started, but then:maximumoJ links was 32 and maximum circuits was16. This error disappeared when theseH quantities were doubled to maximum links=64 and maximum circuits=32. TheI earlier values were ok during the years when only two realtime vaxes wereu@ active.and with 2 realtime vaxes these crashes were not noticed.K The realtime vaxes all have the remote debugger. The installation is 140 km 
 from my home. I How do I get the information in order to be able to pinpoint the cause ofn all this trouble. > Has anyone encountered a similar error?  Who has suggestions?.> When this gets highly detailed contact off list might be best.  % Any help will be greatly appreciated!e   Wime   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 03 10:15:03 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) " Subject: RE: VMS source listings ?) Message-ID: <tZ1F9qlkXuYo@elias.decus.ch>,  q In article <NVaSZCoKllSd@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: Y > In article <01C2CE97.AD9FF4C0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: J >> A lecturer once told me, "You can write FORTRAN code in any language."  >>   > I >    It's interesting how much Fortran Java learned so as not to get into0# >    the same probelms a C and C++.v > J >    Since Kednos made PL/I available to hobbyists I think I'll spend someG >    time learning PL/I.  Then I'll see how much Fortran I can write ins
 >    PL/I. > + >    OBTW:  is it Pee-El-One or Pee-El-Aye?  >   G I always thought it was Pee-El-One until IBM told me it was Pee-El-Aye.i: IIRC their version was written as PL/I as opposed to PL/1.  D And at University in the mid '70s I came across PL/C. Expensive bookC written by the Prof himself a required purchase to do the course. I / preferred to spend that money on sports kit... a   -- y
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 17:50:03 -0800s( From: Warren Gibson <warren@gibson2.com>$ Subject: VT100 as VAXstation console+ Message-ID: <3E45B3CF.25230E6D@gibson2.com>    Hello,  H I was a VMS user in the 80's & it was great.  Now I got a VAXstation VLCF & VT100 for home.  After checking around, I got a H8575A adapter and aG BC16E cable to connect the VT100 to serial port 0 (console port) on then< back.  Set S3 switch up.  Set VT100 to 9600 8 bit no parity.  G When I fire up, I get no prompt on the VT100, no response to BREAK key,i nothing.   Suggestions?   Thanks
 Warren Gibsono        > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!t> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 22:10:18 -05003 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>h( Subject: Re: VT100 as VAXstation console9 Message-ID: <mYj1a.4742$A24.2850@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>n  E Are you sure you are using the right adapter?  Some swap transmit andoK receive.  One way to test is to swap them back with a special cable such ass this:eK http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3704&item=3400955184(  7 Also set the VT for 1 stop bit, if you haven't already.r  G To test the VT, use a loopback plug.  You could try a MMJ loopback likef this: L http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11175&item=3401288040  
 Good luck!  5 "Warren Gibson" <warren@gibson2.com> wrote in messageh% news:3E45B3CF.25230E6D@gibson2.com...d > Hello, >tJ > I was a VMS user in the 80's & it was great.  Now I got a VAXstation VLCH > & VT100 for home.  After checking around, I got a H8575A adapter and aI > BC16E cable to connect the VT100 to serial port 0 (console port) on the > > back.  Set S3 switch up.  Set VT100 to 9600 8 bit no parity. >aI > When I fire up, I get no prompt on the VT100, no response to BREAK key,i
 > nothing. >e > Suggestions? >b > Thanks > Warren Gibsonu >  >a >i >w@ > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----C > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! @ > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 03 09:04:37 +0100e) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)c0 Subject: Re: what limits the number of DECterms?) Message-ID: <wBJ95opkLW9d@elias.decus.ch>h  w In article <01KS5KQUCXMQ9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iI >> > I have a machine which I use mainly to have several DECterms open inoM >> > several (9 at the moment) CDE workspaces from which I log in elsewhere. hL >> > I have 22 open at the moment (and the DECwindows clock and calendar andL >> > Mozilla).  It seems that I can't open any more from the terminal-button> >> > in the CDE toolbar.  CREATE/TERMINAL works fine, though.  > J > As I have since written, it was my mistake in the post; CREATE/TERMINAL  > doesn't work either: >  > $ creat/term( > %LIB-F-INSEF, insufficient event flags
 > $ help/messt@ > %MSGHLP-F-NOTFOUND, message not found in Help Message database > $  >w   $ run sys$system:decw$terminal  4 or if you don't want to tie a terminal session down:  ' $ run/detached sys$system:decw$terminal   F This allows you to create another 23 terminal sessions by clicking the terminal icon.  F The event flag limitation and above workaround was documented in earlyB 1998 - IIRC either the Release Notes or Cover Letter for VMS V7.1.   <snip>   -- u
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 23:32:33 GMTh3 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US>m Subject: Re: [OT]Re:Columbia4 Message-ID: <3E45231C.E99AA3A@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > m > In article <3E4065D3.29A6BB34@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US>, Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US> writes:  > > GreyCloud wrote: > >>= > >> About the most modern RAD hardened chip available is thei4 > >> 80486.  The others wouldn't last long up there. > >cC > >    Cassini, an orbiter getting to Saturn in July 2004 and built 5 > > in the early '90s, has a RAD hardened MIPS R3000.a > < > Standards are different for the Manned Spacecraft program. > > >         http://www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.html  K   I suspect that Cassini, like Galileo, will experience more radiation thanm. any manned space mission would ever encounter.   -- Vance Haemmerle3   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.079 ************************ium on Friday Jan 312  accepted. <<< RETR telcon.ohx$` >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/telcon.ohx (22114 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  21319 (8) bytes transferred.   <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,196 >>> 200 Port 12.19 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR tortur.lib$^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/tortur.lib (560 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  425 (8) bytes transferred.,  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,206 >>> 200 Port 12.20 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR tortur.m80d_ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/tortur.m80 (4574 bytes) started. : >>> 226 Transfer completed.  3298 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,216 >>> 200 Port 12.21 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR trs80.hex_ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/trs80.hex (25814 bytes) started.d; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  24693 (8) bytes transferred.,  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,256 >>> 200 Port 12.25 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR trs80.hlp^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/trs80.hlp (1398 bytes) started.9 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  627 (8) bytes transferred.2  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,266 >>> 200 Port 12.26 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR trs80.ohx_ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/trs80.ohx (23036 bytes) started.t; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  21417 (8) bytes transferred.2  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,276 >>> 200 Port 12.27 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR vector.hex ` >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/vector.hex (25800 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  24705 (8) bytes transferred.6  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,286 >>> 200 Port 12.28 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR vector.ohx$` >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/vector.ohx (25630 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  24454 (8) bytes transferred.   <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,296 >>> 200 Port 12.29 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR vt180.hlp] >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/vt180.hlp (970 bytes) started. 8 >>> 226 Transfer completed.  52 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,306 >>> 200 Port 12.30 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR z100.hexe^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/z100.hex (25904 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  24605 (8) bytes transferred.3  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,316 >>> 200 Port 12.31 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR z100.ohxe^ >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/kermit/cpm/z100.ohx (25744 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  24346 (8) bytes transferred.2  <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,326 >>> 200 Port 12.32 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted. <<< RETR z80unv.mac ` >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax83c/ke