0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 83      Contents: Re: a PDP-11 question 1 Any way to change shadow set name on system disk? 5 Re: Any way to change shadow set name on system disk? 5 Re: Any way to change shadow set name on system disk? ' RE: cron in LINUX/UNIX, what in OpenVMS ' RE: cron in LINUX/UNIX, what in OpenVMS G Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages G Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages   Re: Hobbyist PAKs from Montagar?+ Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages $ RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years .... Re: ISO-9660 CDROMs (was: More dumb questions). RE: ISO-9660 CDROMs (was: More dumb questions) Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: More dumb questions  Re: OpenVMS Boot press release Re: OpenVMS Boot press release Re: OpenVMS Boot press release- Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - RE: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 = RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS A Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS A RE: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS # Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500 # Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500 # Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500 @ Re: Seeking TeX (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Freeware Submissions)P Smart Array 5300A, Storageworks 4300 Ultra Tower, OpenVMS 7.3-1, and an ES40 .../ Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel P RE: Sysgen and UAF memory limit recommendations for Oracle on small machine (256 Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of ISV's  RE: VMS source listings ?  Re: What is a Cluster ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:37:34 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: a PDP-11 question' Message-ID: <3E4861EE.84D81622@fsi.net>    Brian Tillman wrote: > ; > >I forget what S&H stand for, but they were in Tennessee.  >  > Sperry and Hutchins <grin>  0 I'm fairly certain that's Sperry and Hutchinson.   ...I think.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 17:58:33 -0800, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin): Subject: Any way to change shadow set name on system disk?= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0302101758.76a6b08a@posting.google.com>   F I have a two member shadowed system disk (DSA0) consisting of DKA0 andC DKA100. After adding a second SCSI card (narrow) in a PCI slot, the @ built-in wide SCSI now shows up as PKB0 instead of PKA0.  So, ofE course the disks now show up as DKB0 and DKB100.  However, the shadow D set still shows up as DSA0.  Is there any way to change this so that the shadow set would be DKB0:?   Thanks.  Bill McLaughlin    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:31:14 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)> Subject: Re: Any way to change shadow set name on system disk?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1002032131160001@user-uinj4gt.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <e9cbc4f2.0302101758.76a6b08a@posting.google.com>, - mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) wrote:   G >I have a two member shadowed system disk (DSA0) consisting of DKA0 and D >DKA100. After adding a second SCSI card (narrow) in a PCI slot, theA >built-in wide SCSI now shows up as PKB0 instead of PKA0.  So, of F >course the disks now show up as DKB0 and DKB100.  However, the shadowE >set still shows up as DSA0.  Is there any way to change this so that  >the shadow set would be DKB0:?   & Shadowed disks are always DSA devices.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:11:37 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> > Subject: Re: Any way to change shadow set name on system disk?' Message-ID: <3E4869E9.ED12ACB3@fsi.net>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > ? > In article <e9cbc4f2.0302101758.76a6b08a@posting.google.com>, / > mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) wrote:  > I > >I have a two member shadowed system disk (DSA0) consisting of DKA0 and F > >DKA100. After adding a second SCSI card (narrow) in a PCI slot, theC > >built-in wide SCSI now shows up as PKB0 instead of PKA0.  So, of H > >course the disks now show up as DKB0 and DKB100.  However, the shadowG > >set still shows up as DSA0.  Is there any way to change this so that ! > >the shadow set would be DKB0:?  > ( > Shadowed disks are always DSA devices.  A Actually, one of the benefits of shadowing is that the underlying G physicla device names can change and applications don't need to know or ? even be aware of that. They just address the shadow-set device, ? preferably by a logical name such DISK$volume_name or whatever.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:08:33 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> 0 Subject: RE: cron in LINUX/UNIX, what in OpenVMSK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BC4@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    I beg to differ, Rob.   F We run in excess of 20,000 (twenty thousand) batch jobs per day on our cluster.  L And we've learned that JAMS from Argent Software has two very nice features:  H 1) it doesn't clutter up your batch queues with jobs until it's actually time    for them to execute; and   J 2) it has command-line extract/import features that helped us greatly when weK    were consolidating the processing from 85 discrete district systems onto  the )    cluster of Alphas which replaced them.    K      Now arguably, no one on VMS should have to pay for a batch manager and =      you don't have to.  Kronos is decent (or so I've heard).                        Rob    ========================  William W. Webb- EMS Operations  OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS' 4924 Green Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 
 919.874.3043  * <FirstInitialLastNameAtEMAILDotUSPSDotGOV>   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 19:47:13 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 0 Subject: RE: cron in LINUX/UNIX, what in OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <KqrZuqeA9wja@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BC4@rlghncst964.usps.gov>, VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> writes:  >  > I beg to differ, Rob.  > H > We run in excess of 20,000 (twenty thousand) batch jobs per day on our
 > cluster. > N > And we've learned that JAMS from Argent Software has two very nice features: > J > 1) it doesn't clutter up your batch queues with jobs until it's actually > time >    for them to execute; and  > L > 2) it has command-line extract/import features that helped us greatly when > weM >    were consolidating the processing from 85 discrete district systems onto  > the + >    cluster of Alphas which replaced them.  >   M >      Now arguably, no one on VMS should have to pay for a batch manager and ? >      you don't have to.  Kronos is decent (or so I've heard).  >   B 	You are right of course.  Make that "many of us", not "all of us"
 	or "no one."    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:51 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGP Subject: Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B4B1.1A8E3320@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <100220031616562885%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:F >In article <00A1B482.0CE1DA9C@SendSpamHere.ORG>, < @SendSpamHere.ORG> >wrote:  > F >> It is not a portable standard until DEComHPaq provides a VMS reader >> for PDF!  > C >Why do you need an HP-supplied PDF reader?  (Not that I would mind 
 >having one.)   6 Because the alternatives discussed here are lacking...  G XPDF:  Can't read most of what it renders on the screen.  It's printing   E        Specifically, with the CALLING STANDARD PDF, I get nothing but C        blank white pages.  Clicking the print button create a Post- ,        Script document of 301 blank pages!!!  6        function leaves much, very much, to be desired.  E GhostScript: Dumps with nearly everything I want to read.  Pukes with E        bad colorspace errors and produces PS which is never sized for         the page.  E        Specifically, with the CALLING STANDARD PDF, I get nothing but >        the first page.  There are no "print" features woth GS.  & The Adobe Java PDF thang:  puhleez...     D I have Chris Sheers (Applied Synergy) PDF viewer which functions forD most PDF files (an occasional dump here and there).  It has the bestD support for printing and produces rather acceptable color PostScriptC from the PDF I've processed with color.  Thank you Chris for a good  PDF viewer.       D >> POSTSCRIPT???  HP stopped making POSTSCRIPT capable printers, eh? > A >Yeah, everybody just prints Word documents anyway, so we dropped  >PostScript and PCL.  ;-)  > B >PostScript is fine if you want to print the document (or portions8 >thereof), but it lacks a certain ease of searchability. > D >DCPS provides documentation in five formats (Bookreader, HTML, PDF,E >PostScript and text) with all but PDF produced by DECdocument.  Most C >layered products don't supply all those formats, and even the DCPS E >documents are available on the DCPS CD-ROM, not the quarterly Online  >Documentation Library.   D As near as I can tell, the CALLING STANDARD document reports that itE was created with DOCUMENT.  I'd have to ask Dan Esbensen at Touch but @ I'm pretty he hasn't stripped PostScript output from DOCUMENT.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 17:30:12 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) P Subject: Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages3 Message-ID: <HHsnvabFCqNd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <b298hi$ne7$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  J >   So your central concern is around the integration and shipment and theJ >   support of the XPDF or other PDF reader in/into OpenVMS?  (Versions ofJ >   XPDF already ship with every OpenVMS release, as part of the Freeware,E >   so this is clearly not one of simple availability of the reader.)   E On the off-chance that Brian's keyboard has exploded and he is unable 4 to reply, let me claim that his concerns match mine:   	1. Works on everything.= 	2. Supported as part of VMS to handle cases were 1 is false.   I >   As has been remarked upon before, the golden age of web compatability  >   has passed.   D Only for web sites that choose to invoke fancy features incompatible with:    	a. older browsers 	b. security needs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:42:11 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>) Subject: Re: Hobbyist PAKs from Montagar? 6 Message-ID: <b292s3$18e8vd$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  I <sms@antinode.org> schreef in bericht news:03021010234017@antinode.org... D >    Has anyone gotten a Hobbyist PAK e-mail message out of MontagarF > recently?  I've had no success for about a week, and expirations are
 > looming. > I 25 January I received the last Email from Montagar. The body of the email 
 was empty: no license inside.   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 03:10:11 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages2 Message-ID: <3E48669D.8F117DEF@firstdbasource.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > # > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: 
 > > [snip]I > > So, when the rest of the industry standardized on hex head nuts, this J > > asshole in Redmond decided to use octagonal head nuts.  I'm suppose to( > > toss out the entire garage tool set? > I > Sure! Just contact your local certified tool distributor for a complete 
 > new set!   <RAMBLE anomosity=off>@ And after a while, we will have all of the different tool sets. G Actually it is not much different from the auto industry that went from F using standard inch -> metric.  You had to go out and buy  a whole newD tool set -- and guess what... the tool you always needed wasn't evenD included in the set.  Now you have to go to a specialty shop to findA that tool or be forced to use the vise-grips and make that hex or  octagonal nut round.    H You might think of it as being stranded on an island -- you can only useD the tools you have.  Sure companies can go buy them, but again, If IC only need a Ford Pinto, why should I buy the Lamborghini for the Jr E programmer who only connects to the "main frame".  $500 for a desktop F vs. $2-5K for a Workstation (VAX, Alpha, Sun, SGI or what-ever).  It's economics 101.  C As far a VPN goes, the VPN providers won't even install on the same A box.  Try installing the AT&T VPN "Extranet" client and the Cisco E Systems Client on the same box.  Now I know you can't use them at the H same time, but I have more than one customer and they each use these twoB different clients.  And if you talk to either AT&T or Cisco, their@ answer is -- "we will not change to suit anybody - including our3 customers". 	Now THAT'S customer satisfaction. NOT! 	 </RAMBLE>      --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:03:42 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>- Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 0 Message-ID: <01C2D0F4.37CF10F0@sulfer.icius.com>  F Intel doesn't have a very good record of making cheaper chips than AMD in any band.  E http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/WCPG/article.php/10705_1580351__3 E http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/WCPG/article.php/10705_1580351__4   H The less clued-up buyers seem to think paying twice as much for an IntelG is worth it. Of course, their conditioned belief that Mhz = performance G probably helps with that. I wouldn't expect to see Intel making cheaper H chips than AMD any time soon, unless the market starts stampeding toward) Hammer and Itanic looks like going under.    Shane    -----Original Message-----F From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com]  5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in message 5 news:c5cf6e8.0302100828.22bfaed@posting.google.com... 5 > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message 8 news:<d7791aa1.0302061335.6341e20@posting.google.com>..., > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7641 > G > Don't forget that the Hammer runs 32-bit code faster than the Itanic.  > @ > People will buy the Hammer as a cheap, fast Pentium substitue.  D Don't forget that Intel will make faster and cheaper IA32 chips than Hammer. H People will buy Intel IA32 chips, because the system builders won't haveF much to gain from using AMD over IA32 for the volume "Pentium" market.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:33:04 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 6 Message-ID: <00A1B4AA.8C664EC1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  q In article <OPR1a.633646$F2h1.512899@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >  > < >"You can't fight it. It's like trying to fight the future."@ >As in "Hollywood and their dicates are the only form of culture >allowed globally.???  > < >"You can't fight it. It's like trying to fight the future."! >As in "Resistance is futile."???   F More specifically, as in the X-Files feature film, which was entitled:   X-Files: Fight the Future   > (So even Hollywood's diktats instruct us to fight the future.)     -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 20:37:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 3 Message-ID: <Ke3nRgPGUk1M@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <9pCcnYnTfcYfrtWjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:jXsJI5Ca+qsL@eisner.encompasserve.org... 
 >> In article H > <OPR1a.633646$F2h1.512899@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John! > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  >> >= >> > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message  >>@ >> > "You can't fight it. It's like trying to fight the future."% >> > As in "Resistance is futile."???  >>@ >> Exactly.  Someone was probably very attached to wood burning,D >> steam powered transportation (whether train or auto).  Resistance8 >> to oil powered vehicles/transportation proved futile. > J > Er, that was because the newer technologies had at least some compelling/ > advantages over the old ones.  Itanic had ...   6 	Intel - not Itanium.  Intel is a superset of Itanium.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:45:17 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 2 Message-ID: <kdidnbXDNY1b_tWjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Ke3nRgPGUk1M@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <9pCcnYnTfcYfrtWjXTWc3Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:jXsJI5Ca+qsL@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > >> In article J > > <OPR1a.633646$F2h1.512899@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John# > > Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > >> >? > >> > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message  > >>B > >> > "You can't fight it. It's like trying to fight the future."' > >> > As in "Resistance is futile."???  > >>B > >> Exactly.  Someone was probably very attached to wood burning,F > >> steam powered transportation (whether train or auto).  Resistance: > >> to oil powered vehicles/transportation proved futile. > > L > > Er, that was because the newer technologies had at least some compelling1 > > advantages over the old ones.  Itanic had ...  > 7 > Intel - not Itanium.  Intel is a superset of Itanium.   K Well, *Intel* has had ample opportunity for the past decade or more to kill L off the 64-bit elite and hasn't made all that much headway (since the 64-bit= brigade never were in the markets where Intel does dominate).   K Now, it's true that there will always be some pressure from low-end systems H (e.g., Xeon - and, much more so, Hammer) with mid-range aspirations, butE that's not a replacement of one technology with another but a gradual J redefinition of what constitutes low-end.  Fortunately, at least until nowL what constitutes *high*-end has also been continually extended as technologyD progressed, so that market has remained attractive despite some IA32 competition at its bottom.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 21:25:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) - Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 3 Message-ID: <6JvyhcO78m$H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <kdidnbXDNY1b_tWjXTWcpg@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message  M >> > Er, that was because the newer technologies had at least some compelling 2 >> > advantages over the old ones.  Itanic had ... >>8 >> Intel - not Itanium.  Intel is a superset of Itanium. > M > Well, *Intel* has had ample opportunity for the past decade or more to kill N > off the 64-bit elite and hasn't made all that much headway (since the 64-bit? > brigade never were in the markets where Intel does dominate).  > M > Now, it's true that there will always be some pressure from low-end systems J > (e.g., Xeon - and, much more so, Hammer) with mid-range aspirations, butG > that's not a replacement of one technology with another but a gradual L > redefinition of what constitutes low-end.  Fortunately, at least until nowN > what constitutes *high*-end has also been continually extended as technologyF > progressed, so that market has remained attractive despite some IA32 > competition at its bottom. >   @ 	You can talk low-end, high-end, whatever.  Here are some facts:  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984010.html   N The total market for Intel-based servers in the U.S. during the fourth quarterN was $1.8 billion, up 17.4 percent from a year earlier and 3.5 percent from theJ third quarter. Gartner has also predicted that revenue from less-expensiveK Intel servers will surpass revenue from high-end Unix-based servers for the  first time in 2003.   L Intel-based servers accounted for 90 percent of unit shipments in the fourthM quarter and 40.3 percent of revenue. A year earlier, Intel-based servers made G up 87.5 percent of units shipped and produced 36.1 percent of revenue.     ---   A 	Counting noses, Intel boxes make 90 percent of shipping servers.   & 	As other's share fades and fades. . .  ? 	The fact of the matter is it is quickly becoming a total Intel  	world regardless of OS.  : 	Now maybe some of the folks see things turned upside down> 	as Chimpzilla rolls ClawHammer and SludgeHammer , but that is? 	mostly wishful thinking, right?  Oh I suppose some think steam @ 	powered vehicles might make a comeback, but it isn't happening.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 01:13:47 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 2 Message-ID: <Jr2cnYNujow5CdWjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:6JvyhcO78m$H@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   A > You can talk low-end, high-end, whatever.  Here are some facts:  > + > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984010.html  > H > The total market for Intel-based servers in the U.S. during the fourth quarter L > was $1.8 billion, up 17.4 percent from a year earlier and 3.5 percent from the L > third quarter. Gartner has also predicted that revenue from less-expensiveI > Intel servers will surpass revenue from high-end Unix-based servers for  the  > first time in 2003.  > G > Intel-based servers accounted for 90 percent of unit shipments in the  fourthJ > quarter and 40.3 percent of revenue. A year earlier, Intel-based servers madeH > up 87.5 percent of units shipped and produced 36.1 percent of revenue. >  > ---  > B > Counting noses, Intel boxes make 90 percent of shipping servers. > ' > As other's share fades and fades. . .  > @ > The fact of the matter is it is quickly becoming a total Intel > world regardless of OS.   L Quickly, you say?  Even assuming that the revenue growth rate you note aboveG continued, it looks as if it would take another 16 years or so for your K 'total Intel world' to become reality in the server space.  During those 16 H years, Alpha could have had a significantly increasing share of a slowlyI decreasing very high-margin market, as contrasted with Itanic's prospects H of, at best, a significantly increasing share of a slowly increasing butL relatively low-margin market.  At *some* point the latter eventually becomesK more attractive, but that point likely doesn't occur before the end of this D decade (slightly before which it would make sense to wind down AlphaA development - perhaps a bit short of its projected 20-year active ? development lifetime, but much less so than actually occurred).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 15:02:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: ISO-9660 CDROMs (was: More dumb questions) 3 Message-ID: <grDCnba1RpaG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <dg0g4vc9gmbv2428opfo0r1ndmg3qsde7r@4ax.com>, jasper <jasper@never.tell> writes: 9 > On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 22:50:09 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  >>Much snipped >  > G >>VMS cannot read Joliet CDs, and can read ISO-9660 CDs with the caveat E >>that data the file system (with a space between the words) needs to A >>iterpret the file's format are not provided by non-VMS ISO-9660  >>programs.  >>I >>> I assume that I can now boot into vms and at the command prompt enter  >>> the following: >>> "mount dka500 /over=id". >>G >>Well, sort of, as implied just above. Most newer versions of VMS will C >>detect ISO-9660 using that MOUNT syntax and will handle the MOUNT D >>correctly. If the file is intact and if the structure of the CD isD >>compatible with VMS's ISO-9660 understanding (shoudl adhere fairlyI >>strictly to the standard, and not take M$-like shortcuts or liberties), 4 >>you should be o.k. - but that's a *LOT* of "if"'s.  C Note that for sequential files (including variable length) the data A VMS is expecting is fully specified in the ISO-9660 standard, but B formatting programs on other operating systems often fail to write@ it.  Even the very flexible ISO-9660 volume set capabilities areA ignored when reading on many non-VMS operating systems, resulting @ in a lack of capability for writing ISO-9660 volume sets in many non-VMS formatting programs.  ? For those who have not used it, VMS handling of ISO-9660 volume C sets is a more flexible extension of the "sequential disk" approach @ used by Backup.  VMS will give operator commands to swap membersD of the volume set in and out of the available driveS on an as-needed basis.  C > Seems I probably burned the cd's with Joliet extensions as the cd E >  won't install on vms. I shall redownload and ensure that joliet is  > disabled prior to reburning.    B The major feature of Joliet is actually use of two-byte charactersA in the metadata, something not allowed by ISO-9660.  In fairness, E the Joliet documentation specifies that the Primary Volume Descriptor B should follow the ISO-9660 standard and the Joliet features should@ only be in a Secondary Volume Descriptor (and the hierarchy that hangs from it).   A That said, I would not put it past a Microsoft-centric formatting < vendor to get this wrong, and I know one CDROM expert in VMSD Development within the past year found a Microsoft CD which followed/ the rules but left the Primary hierarchy empty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:02:21 -0500 $ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>7 Subject: RE: ISO-9660 CDROMs (was: More dumb questions) J Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492AFEE@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]) > Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:02 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: ISO-9660 CDROMs (was: More dumb questions)  > . > [snipped some content similar to that below] >  > > <Jasper wrote>E > > Seems I probably burned the cd's with Joliet extensions as the cd G > >  won't install on vms. I shall redownload and ensure that joliet is ! > > disabled prior to reburning.   > D > The major feature of Joliet is actually use of two-byte charactersC > in the metadata, something not allowed by ISO-9660.  In fairness, G > the Joliet documentation specifies that the Primary Volume Descriptor D > should follow the ISO-9660 standard and the Joliet features shouldB > only be in a Secondary Volume Descriptor (and the hierarchy that > hangs from it).  > C > That said, I would not put it past a Microsoft-centric formatting > > vendor to get this wrong, and I know one CDROM expert in VMSF > Development within the past year found a Microsoft CD which followed1 > the rules but left the Primary hierarchy empty.  >   @ I believe the original poster, Jasper, mentioned having a TCP/IP? stack installed.  If it's running correctly, it might be easier : for him to simply FTP the file(s) he needs to the VMS box.; As a newbie, he might be thankful to leave the finer points 7 of CD support for a later time, as his immediate intent  is to get the GUI going.  = If the VMS FTP server's not running, he may find it easier to @ use the VMS FTP client to connect to a server he already knows,  perhaps his Linux box.   Jasper,   9 Once you get the GUI started, I think you'll find that it 8 reveals less about the internal workings of VMS than you5 may expect.  However, it can take the DCL out of many 7 common tasks, and might give you a little more comfort  ; to get started.  You'll be back to DCL as soon as you need  # to do anything interesting, though.   8 I know you've mentioned finding a steeper learning curve: with VMS than you had expected.  Remember, you are jumping; into some fairly challenging areas as an honest-to-goodness ? newbie.  Hang in there.  I'll bet that you'll come to a point,  < much sooner than you probably expect, where things start to ! fall into place with less effort.   9 On another note, I also noticed you mentioned having read D "Getting Started" but that you did not find everything you needed.  = Even though it contains a small section on personal systems,  > it's really not the whole solution for someone building a box ? from scratch.  Nevertheless, I'd like to hear any feedback you  > feel inclined to give.  I don't disguise my email address, so > please feel free to contact me directly about that book (that  goes for anyone).    -Mike Duffy    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:56:04 -0800   From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <dg0g4vc9gmbv2428opfo0r1ndmg3qsde7r@4ax.com>  7 On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 22:50:09 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  
 >Much snipped     F >VMS cannot read Joliet CDs, and can read ISO-9660 CDs with the caveatD >that data the file system (with a space between the words) needs to@ >iterpret the file's format are not provided by non-VMS ISO-9660
 >programs. > H >> I assume that I can now boot into vms and at the command prompt enter >> the following:  >> "mount dka500 /over=id".  > F >Well, sort of, as implied just above. Most newer versions of VMS willB >detect ISO-9660 using that MOUNT syntax and will handle the MOUNTC >correctly. If the file is intact and if the structure of the CD is C >compatible with VMS's ISO-9660 understanding (shoudl adhere fairly H >strictly to the standard, and not take M$-like shortcuts or liberties),3 >you should be o.k. - but that's a *LOT* of "if"'s.  > . >> Presumably, this will give me access to theI >> file? Now, how do I copy it to my hard drive, and how do I install it? E >> Like David said, I need exact examples for this is very new to me.  > 4 >Let me refer you to part of my VMS-related website: > 4 >http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/index.html#mentor > D >That link may change by Springtime, but for now it's good. It's notF >deeply technical, but there are references to VMS file system relatedD >things, including the difference between a "filesystem" and a "file= >system", a foreign concept to most of the non-VMS EDP world.    F Thank you for the info. I have printed out your mentor pages and shall9 read them today. Looks to be subjects that will assist me  immeasurably. A Seems I probably burned the cd's with Joliet extensions as the cd C  won't install on vms. I shall redownload and ensure that joliet is  disabled prior to reburning.    B Finding the time to sit down and digest the vms info the group hasA given me is the real problem. It's hard to learn something new by E reading a few minutes here and there. I need a week to do nothing but ; read and try, then I should be okay--for a newbie, that is!     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:59:41 -0800t  From: jasper <jasper@never.tell>  Subject: Re: More dumb questions8 Message-ID: <q11g4vsbf9nmge17o240lk5u8ps9s63ctq@4ax.com>  > On 9 Feb 2003 18:52:26 -0800, chris@applied-synergy.com (Chris Scheers) wrote:    snipped considerably    A >>The file you downloaded is actually an executable file.  If youmD >downloaded it using a browser, there is the possibility that it was? >downloaded as text (instead of binary).  This will corrupt it.a > F >If you have problems with this, FTP it from ftp.service.digital.com. + >It can be found at "/public/vms/axp/v7.2".e >B@ >When you say that you burned it to a CD, I will assume that you >created an ISO9660 CD.  >5F >The native file system for VMS is called ODS.  It may be necessary to> >add the /MEDIA=CDROM switch to the MOUNT command to get it to >recognize the ISO9660 format. >mD >Once you have mounted the CDROM, you should have access to the fileC >you downloaded.  This is a compressed executable (something like aoE >self extracting ZIP file), so you will need to RUN it to extract thep
 >PCSI kit. >I< >You could RUN it from the CD with a command something like: >JO >       $ RUN DKA500:[000000]dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics-v0100--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexei >oE >This will prompt for the name of the extracted file.  Make sure thatp >you put it on a writable disk!J >3? >BTW: Traditionally, the CDROM is DKA400, aka SCSI ID 4, not 5.e >SF >Alternately, you could copy the DCX file to the hard drive and run it >there.- >aF >This should generate a PCSI file.  This is the actual ECO that can be >installed.s > G >The readme file that describes this ECO and how to install it is foundo >at: >e] >http://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/v7.2/dec-axpvms-vms72_graphics-v0100--4.READMEi >) >Good luck!     B This group is really great. Thanks to all of you for your help andD information. I appreciate it. Without the assistance I have received* here, I would have given up on vms by now.    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:01:49 -0600,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e  Subject: Re: More dumb questions% Message-ID: <3E48679D.682714@fsi.net>    John Travell wrote:n > / > "jasper" <jasper@never.tell> wrote in messageH4 > news:dodd4vo9g600nor1d2j80it2pvf9noltm2@4ax.com...J > > On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 14:25:57 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
 > > wrote:# > A big chunk ommitted for brevity.  > > > D > > >For the record, there are no dumb questions.  I agree with your > suggestion thatoL > > >the answers be a bit more precise.  The person asking the question will
 > type theB > > >command exactly as you specify it.  Always keep that in mind. > > >e	 > > >DaveyH > >  Hear, hear! I second that. VMS, so far, is like being handed a bookD > > written  in Greek and being asked to learn Greek from it. I am aC > > Windows and Linux man, entirely new to VMS. All help is greatly  > > appreciated. > >I > >sL > Personally I would see it as the other way round, VMS commands are for theK > most part english language statements that do things generally consistent 9 > with the common useage context of the terms being used.  > F > Clearly this is more likely to be a problem for someone who's nativeN > language is not english, or perhaps some who use of english is substantiallyM > non-standard, but I believe that attempting to introduce someone who is notrM > familiar with any CLI at all to DCL would be much easier than to any of the9 > Unix shells.  	 Granted. s  E However, consider the difference between any one DCL command and, oh,h@ NETCONFIG.COM, for example. The difference can be likened to the; difference between WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Hello, world!" and theIC COBOL-equivalent. COBOL is more-or-less "english language", but not ) particularly good for reducing verbosity.D  N > True I now view this from a perspective of 20 years experience with VMS, butM > I do remember the days when I was first learning about the one true OS, anda+ > found it easier than falling off a log...-  ' Some folks learn quicker than others...3   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:40:34 -05000* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot press releaseo2 Message-ID: <-cGcnetQZYAGydWjXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:b28hg8$dne$1@web1.cup.hp.com...@ > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_boot.html  K I'm afraid the URL appears to be a Web page (and even that appears to be in D an Alpha-to-Itanic-specific rather than a general area), not a pressK release.  And I could find no press release in the 'press releases' sectioniC of the HP Web site.  So I suspect that this is just another case ofyI preaching to the already-converted rather than any sign of willingness too" mention VMS to the world at large.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 02:47:12 GMTe1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot press releasei2 Message-ID: <3E48613C.43088DB4@firstdbasource.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > B > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message& > news:b28hg8$dne$1@web1.cup.hp.com...B > > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_boot.html > M > I'm afraid the URL appears to be a Web page (and even that appears to be in F > an Alpha-to-Itanic-specific rather than a general area), not a pressM > release.  And I could find no press release in the 'press releases' sectioneE > of the HP Web site.  So I suspect that this is just another case oflK > preaching to the already-converted rather than any sign of willingness toe$ > mention VMS to the world at large. >  > - bill    , Looks fine here...  must be your browser....     -- i Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 04:22:19 GMTa- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)d' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot press release & Message-ID: <HA4Mt9.37I@world.std.com>  2 In article <3E48613C.43088DB4@firstdbasource.com>,3 Michael Austin  <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote:D > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message( > > news:b28hg8$dne$1@web1.cup.hp.com...  D > > > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/openvms_boot.html > > O > > I'm afraid the URL appears to be a Web page (and even that appears to be incH > > an Alpha-to-Itanic-specific rather than a general area), not a pressO > > release.  And I could find no press release in the 'press releases' sectioneG > > of the HP Web site.  So I suspect that this is just another case of M > > preaching to the already-converted rather than any sign of willingness to & > > mention VMS to the world at large. > . > Looks fine here...  must be your browser....  C Bill's point is that this information isn't listed under HP's press D release page, which is here: <http://www.hp.com/hps/press/index.htm>  F The material on the page that Sue graciously provided certainly makes F for good press release material, but if it's tucked away in an OpenVMSF specific section of HP's site, it's unlikely any /new/ customers will  see it.   B I'd take a slightly less jaded viewpoint about it than Bill does, E perhaps.  The information is up on the HP site; the VMS faithful have-D an opportunity to forward the information to the appropriate places.   -brian.  -- dF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----@          "Never program a computer you can lift." -- Barry Shein   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:56:15 -0800o& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31/ Message-ID: <v4ftd2dg8te905@corp.supernews.com>t  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > H > Great, this explains a lot. It must be Ok because it looks Ok, doesn't: > perform that well but hey it looks alright so why worry. > 4 > And you thought I was talking about the Z3 !!! ;-)  B People buy things for lots of reasons that have nothing to do with; performance. This is why your company is still in business.i   -- s
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:53:16 -0500sA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>e6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e48032d$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 wrote in message news:3E47EB6F.4050902@nospamn.sun.com...r >" >a > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageI > > news:qxP1a.633524$F2h1.557501@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...c > >a> > >>"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message1 > >>news:xDl4AbfLe0Mu@eisner.encompasserve.org...m > >>@ > >>>In article <3E472B53.3E25D057@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" > >># > >><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:m > >>H > >>>>...additionally, Alpha's announced EOL falls within that "maybe 3" > >>>  > >>year > >>G > >>>>span, which still leaves VMS racing full throttle toward a bridgeo > >>>t > >>that > >>C > >>>>does not yet exist. Continuing that metaphor, "the AlphaCide"  > >>>  > >>could be > >>B > >>>>likened to cutting the brake lines on that speeding vehicle. > >>>bD > >>>Alpha's announced EOL included the statement that Alpha systemsE > >>>would still be made as long as there is a significant market for H > >>>them.  That is no different from systems using any other processor. > >> > >>G > >>That's like asking in 2003, "Who wants to purchase a brand new 1998MJ > >>Mecedes for the same price as the new 2003 model?" Any takers? I think > >>not. > >> > >  > >DK > > Not true.  For instance, I prefer the beauty of the BMW Z3's lines overa theTG > > Z4, or over the Z8's price ;-).  So, a *brand new* Z3 despite beings designed( > > in the mid-90's is still attractive. > >F >2H > Great, this explains a lot. It must be Ok because it looks Ok, doesn't: > perform that well but hey it looks alright so why worry. >S  # Actually my Z3 performs quite well.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:49:46 -0600@1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E4856BA.E0F2917E@fsi.net>r   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3E472B53.3E25D057@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > K > > ...additionally, Alpha's announced EOL falls within that "maybe 3" yearhJ > > span, which still leaves VMS racing full throttle toward a bridge thatJ > > does not yet exist. Continuing that metaphor, "the AlphaCide" could be@ > > likened to cutting the brake lines on that speeding vehicle. > A > Alpha's announced EOL included the statement that Alpha systemsdB > would still be made as long as there is a significant market for > them.   > Show me where HP and/or their predecessor(s) has(have) defined "significant market".   > > That is no different from systems using any other processor. > D > Those who want HP to continue making such systems when there is noC > longer a market are doomed to disappointment in this capitalistic 
 > society.  @ ...which explains why HP/Q are turning handsprings, bending overG backward, killing foreign heads of state, etc. ... whatever it takes towF ensure that the existing market for VMS dries up sooner than possible.   -- f David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:03:57 -0600:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>D6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E485A0D.34FBED8E@fsi.net>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3E454A38.1546FA54@fsi.net...d > > David Svensson wrote:t > > > B > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message% > news:<3E447A70.C9E253D2@fsi.net>...s > > > > [snip]N > > > > I share Bill's concern here. Had the event not been preceded by publicN > > > > commitments which were publicly broken by the event, it would probablyF > > > > have passed quietly as a normal event in the overall scheme of > > > > technological advances.s > > > > L > > > > When a company plays its user base (read: it's lifeblood) for blind,B > > > > ignorant fools, that demands an unequivocal response, IMO. > > > # > > > I agree fully with the above.  > > >aJ > > > But I suspect that Itanium would not have been so bad in some peopleI > > > opinions if the Alpha would have continued to be developed. ItaniumaG > > > have suffered and been the victim because some are upset with theeL > > > Alpha retirement. The bad decisions with Alpha made by Compaq does not# > > > make Itanium better or worse.h > >nI > > In so far as your last sentence is true, yes - you are quite correct.o > >sH > > The issue on the AlphaCide, however, is not a question of individualI > > opinion, rather it is a question of industry-wide perception, and one 8 > > that is easily substantiated through random polling. > >t > K > I love assertions like that.  Please share with us the study, or even theT > polling data.r  D Feel free to conduct your own research. I have every confidence thatG your results will be an accurate reflection of my experiences and thoseeH of my colleagues over the course of the last four+ years, and especially; those of the last almost twenty months since the AlphaCide.0  F I actually got thrown out of a prospective customer's place for tryingH to sell him a VMS-based system (I'd been keeping that aspect as quiet asF possible until I got the one-on-one with him - didn't want to kill theG prospect before I even got myself in front of the customer). He claimed8F that I, like Compaq, was a filthy liar and he accused me of taking him@ for a fool. He threw me physically out of his board room and hadE security escort me off the premises in handcuffs. I had to enlist thea@ assistance of the local police to recover my car and my personalA belongings (had to sign a complaint of grand theft auto and pettyt theft).   H So, go ahead - ask around: the people on the train, at the restaurant atE lunch, in line at the grocery, at the local computer geek gatherings,rE ... where ever you like. Take a formal poll if want or can afford to.>  F See, that's another thing that separates me from HP/Q: I don't have toF spend megabux to have some high-priced suits tell me what I've already learned by my own experiences.   -- . David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:30:14 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1002032130160001@user-uinj4gt.dialup.mindspring.com>  ; In article <3E485A0D.34FBED8E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"e <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:      G >I actually got thrown out of a prospective customer's place for trying I >to sell him a VMS-based system (I'd been keeping that aspect as quiet asEG >possible until I got the one-on-one with him - didn't want to kill the.H >prospect before I even got myself in front of the customer). He claimedG >that I, like Compaq, was a filthy liar and he accused me of taking himnA >for a fool. He threw me physically out of his board room and haddF >security escort me off the premises in handcuffs. I had to enlist theA >assistance of the local police to recover my car and my personalaB >belongings (had to sign a complaint of grand theft auto and petty >theft).  J Is this for real?  Private security folks laid hands on you and put you inF handcuffs, with no provocation?  Sounds like assault and kidnapping toJ me.  You ought to bleed every last dime out of those responsible, and have them thrown in jail.  G I belive VMS is used in a number of correctional facilities.  Maybe theLD bums who did this to you will have close contact with VMS after all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:26:14 -0800-$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: RE: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 310 Message-ID: <01C2D131.E60057A0@sulfer.icius.com>  F Actually, you can have them prosecuted for assault if this is correct:  ; http://pennandteller.com/sincity/penniphile/federalvip.htmld  F Penn, the "taller, louder half" of Penn and Teller, was searched at anG airport. Apparently he knows his rights, and one of them is they're notrF allowed to touch you without permission. They tried to steamroller himH into not getting the police involved, he wasn't having any of it and the0 cop who arrived backed him up. Interesting read.   IANAL.   Shanet   -----Original Message-----B From: rdeininger@mindspring.com [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]' Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:30 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31    ; In article <3E485A0D.34FBED8E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:      G >I actually got thrown out of a prospective customer's place for tryingaI >to sell him a VMS-based system (I'd been keeping that aspect as quiet as G >possible until I got the one-on-one with him - didn't want to kill the0H >prospect before I even got myself in front of the customer). He claimedG >that I, like Compaq, was a filthy liar and he accused me of taking him A >for a fool. He threw me physically out of his board room and had3F >security escort me off the premises in handcuffs. I had to enlist theA >assistance of the local police to recover my car and my personal B >belongings (had to sign a complaint of grand theft auto and petty >theft).  G Is this for real?  Private security folks laid hands on you and put you4 inF handcuffs, with no provocation?  Sounds like assault and kidnapping toE me.  You ought to bleed every last dime out of those responsible, and. have them thrown in jail.  G I belive VMS is used in a number of correctional facilities.  Maybe the>D bums who did this to you will have close contact with VMS after all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:38:49 -0500w* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 312 Message-ID: <E0mdnUnGi8_f_9WjXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messagel* news:01C2D131.E60057A0@sulfer.icius.com...H > Actually, you can have them prosecuted for assault if this is correct: >o= > http://pennandteller.com/sincity/penniphile/federalvip.htmli >aH > Penn, the "taller, louder half" of Penn and Teller, was searched at anI > airport. Apparently he knows his rights, and one of them is they're notiH > allowed to touch you without permission. They tried to steamroller himJ > into not getting the police involved, he wasn't having any of it and the2 > cop who arrived backed him up. Interesting read.   Indeed - thanks.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:16:16 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E486B00.4F083A00@fsi.net>    Robert Deininger wrote:- > = > In article <3E485A0D.34FBED8E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"v  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > I > >I actually got thrown out of a prospective customer's place for tryingeK > >to sell him a VMS-based system (I'd been keeping that aspect as quiet aslI > >possible until I got the one-on-one with him - didn't want to kill the J > >prospect before I even got myself in front of the customer). He claimedI > >that I, like Compaq, was a filthy liar and he accused me of taking him C > >for a fool. He threw me physically out of his board room and hadeH > >security escort me off the premises in handcuffs. I had to enlist theC > >assistance of the local police to recover my car and my personal D > >belongings (had to sign a complaint of grand theft auto and petty
 > >theft). > L > Is this for real?  Private security folks laid hands on you and put you inH > handcuffs, with no provocation?  Sounds like assault and kidnapping toL > me.  You ought to bleed every last dime out of those responsible, and have > them thrown in jail.  > Not worth pursuing. The payback is not guaranteed to either be( substantial or to offset the legal fees.  I > I belive VMS is used in a number of correctional facilities.  Maybe thesF > bums who did this to you will have close contact with VMS after all.  E Hhmmm... is there a correctional facility that can rehabilitate those1F responsible for the marketing and promotion of VMS? ...set them on the
 "right" path?r  ? I wonder, and I wonder what authorites I would call to have then, appropriate characters incarcerated there...   -- s David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:37:09 -0600h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31' Message-ID: <3E486FE5.BAA2098A@fsi.net>o   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip] > > You can help to continue > > to fill the glass, > A > Really? To whom should I send my air-ready commercials for bothnH > television and radio? ... my camera-ready ad copy for the print media?  C Better still: I'll do the production and book the ad-space/air-timebG myself. That way, at least I can be certain that it will happen and nota+ get lost in the VMS advertising black-hole.b  F Just tell me where to have the invoices sent! If I don't hear from youG by this time next week (17-Feb-2003), I'll just have 'em send the billss to Mark Gorham.R  5 (Lesson: If you want something done, do it yourself!)N  C DJE Systems just appointed itself the marketing arm of HP's OpenVMSg	 division!m   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 21:49:24 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)aF Subject: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS- Message-ID: <b29obk$jhq$1@shell.monmouth.com>c  T In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D54@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,& Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: >David,0 > 3 >>>> Heartbreak Deja Vu: Ever drop an RP06 pack?<<<o >nH >Heartbreak is being a FE on call on Friday night and hoping it is goingG >to be a quiet weekend as you have lots of stuff to do and then gettingaC >the following call from some mission critical customers operator -sH >"well, there was a strange noise coming out of this one RP0x, drive, soI >I moved the pack to each of the other drives we had and now they are alli >making noises .. Any idea's?"  G >Weekend is now shot and around the clock job starts to replace all thetI >heads on all the Customers drives where that Operator moved the bad packoA >to. First task is to stop and pick up baseball bat as it will be 1 >involved in the first task when you get on site.a >  >:-) >n >Regards >g >Kerry Mainl >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.s" >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477s >Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcomy. >    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  >OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM  4 Can I borrow the bat for Fort Monmouth, NJ.  Please.  9 They needed a clue bat pretty bad down there in the 80's.w  L Had a customer at the Fort do something as annoying.  All 6 dual port RP06'sG went "unsafe" and faulted and the two VAX 11/780's didn't boot at Fort  F Monmouth after some building maintenance and it was an "emergency" and% there was 2 hour DECservice response.K  D The management didn't want to send anyone other then me and I had toG demand they live up to their end of the bargain and not hand me a third9A open call (in two different buildings at once).  Weasel managmenttH finally gives in to me after I have the customer call directly to demand service.  F I 'm working on another two Fort Monmouth DECservice calls and I can'tH get to the site in time so I force the office to ship over another FieldN Engineer from across the state (one hour away) with disk heads a perch tester K and servo power amps (a common cause of the problem) only to find that the oH "critical problem" was they didn't have packs in any of the drive any of the drives.   E They were refurbing the air conditioning and painting again (one timefD they painted the ceiling by standing on the spinning RP06 drive tops> (which probably would've caused loss of limbs if the glass had broken...).   G This time they were smart and pulled all the packs during the downtime.>  @ They just never bothered to reinsert them before trying to boot.1 Result six drives unsafe and two pissed off FE's."   >. >  >-----Original Message-----s: >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]=20  >Sent: February 3, 2003 10:17 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com% >Subject: Re: Very large disks on VMSf >  >w >Alan Frisbie wrote: >>=20i >> JF Mezei wrote: >> > >> > Jim Geier wrote:  >> > >J >> > > With the evolution towards larger and larger disks, and now with=20K >> > > the EVA moreso than its predecessors, it is possible to have VERY=20 # >> > > large disks on a VMs system.i >> >I >> > Back in the 1980s, VMS supported HUGE drives. They were so big, they" >pK >> > needed 2 males to lift, required a 1/3hp electric motor to spin, 15=20t% >> > ams circuit to power EACH drive.l >>=20SI >> I would like to see an RP06 lifted by only two people, male or female.e >nB >> Heck, I know some people who had trouble just lifting the pack! >e >Heartbreak Deja Vu: >l >Ever drop an RP06 pack? >h9 >Ever see a FE drop an RP06 calibration (reference) pack?c >sF >Drop a line to Mark Levy for these and other interesting RP06 storiesF >(including trashing a WHOLE drive's worth of heads - and they weren't >even installed at the time!). >n >--=20 >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/( >   C I'll have to check that story out.  I know one FE that launched theaC heads into the office alignment pack...  or did she format the #$%^n thing.  H Anyway... Bell Labs Holmdel kept an entire Field Engineer busy full time) changing crashed heads on RP/RM drives...y  D A full time disk specialist just swapping heads and billing them perF drive -- since they almost always stopped after three, er four, er six RP/RM drives went south.  8 Me -- I never launched the heads into an alignment pack.  ? I did, however, almost amputate the hand of one of my coworkers-D when I powered down the 11/70 I was installing.  You see he had beenF powering the RP06 Perch Tester from the box and when it lost power the7 heads were pulled back in an emergency retract screech.   F This was in NY at AT&T in downtown Manhattan while installing an 11/700 COSMOS system and a couple of 11/34 SARTS boxes.  G Luckily, he had the head lock safety stop in place (*something I almostu8 never did*) and was able to get his hands clear in time.  G Hey, Bob DeForest --if you're out there... I'm still sorry for that onen 20 years later.m     Bill   -- dM +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+mM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |aM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |tN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 03:19:04 GMT % From: artie <silli_artie@hotmail.com>yJ Subject: Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS8 Message-ID: <100220031919046802%silli_artie@hotmail.com>  G For a while, DEC's VAX/VMS group was located in scenic (sic) Tewskbury,s> Mass -- in a failed Caldor store.  In our lab, between the twoC development 11/780's (GALAXY and STAR) and a third machine used forUC test work, we had a table laden with disk packs, stacked (too) manyr high.s  F A maintenance/cleaning person was in the lab and bumped something intoB the table, hard; I don't remember what it was.  Disk packs hit theE floor.  I don't remember what it was that hit the table, as I was onenG of the people screaming "STOP!" as this idiot started picking the packss? off the floor and putting them back on the table...  I think weu% declared 7 or 8 packs highly suspect.   E A couple of years earlier, when I worked on the Left Coast for SDS, I E was trying out some new code on a Sigma 7 in the data center.  It wasuF hay-fever season.  I put my 2314-style pack on a drive, pulled off theF cover, sneezed three or four times, closed the drive door, and powered the sucker up.  G It made loud complaining noises.  One of the lab hardware folks came uptA to me, put an arm around my shoulders (he was about 5 or 6 inchesGG taller) and said, "Son, you're going to learn how to replace heads on at disk drive..."  & I learned, and bought beer afterwards.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:35:03 -0500h' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>dJ Subject: RE: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMST Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9C95@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  > >>> "Son, you're going to learn how to replace heads on a disk drive..."<<<  F Mmmm.. I wonder how many FE's today would even know what a scope was - let alone know how to use it.2   :-)1   Regards@  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant2 Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services: Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)m OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM    -----Original Message-----/ From: artie [mailto:silli_artie@hotmail.com]=20o  Sent: February 10, 2003 10:19 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComhF Subject: Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS     G For a while, DEC's VAX/VMS group was located in scenic (sic) Tewskbury,c> Mass -- in a failed Caldor store.  In our lab, between the twoH development 11/780's (GALAXY and STAR) and a third machine used for testD work, we had a table laden with disk packs, stacked (too) many high.  F A maintenance/cleaning person was in the lab and bumped something intoB the table, hard; I don't remember what it was.  Disk packs hit theH floor.  I don't remember what it was that hit the table, as I was one ofH the people screaming "STOP!" as this idiot started picking the packs offF the floor and putting them back on the table...  I think we declared 7 or 8 packs highly suspect.  E A couple of years earlier, when I worked on the Left Coast for SDS, I E was trying out some new code on a Sigma 7 in the data center.  It wastF hay-fever season.  I put my 2314-style pack on a drive, pulled off theF cover, sneezed three or four times, closed the drive door, and powered the sucker up.  G It made loud complaining noises.  One of the lab hardware folks came upeA to me, put an arm around my shoulders (he was about 5 or 6 incheslG taller) and said, "Son, you're going to learn how to replace heads on at disk drive..."  & I learned, and bought beer afterwards.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 14:48:11 -0800, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin), Subject: Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500= Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0302101448.57d772fa@posting.google.com>e  f kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote in message news:<$jbvuA9Gv7TB@eisner.encompasserve.org>...n > In article <e9cbc4f2.0302052114.2572665e@posting.google.com>, mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:H > > I have a BA364 enclosure connected to an AlphaStation 500/266 (model@ > > PB540-A9). According to the documentation, the built-in SCSIH > > controller is "fast wide SCSI-2". However, when I do a "show dev" atH > > the SRM prompt, the controller shows up as SCSI ID 7. When I set theJ > > fourth ID switch on any drive position, it is ignored-- only the first' > > three switches seem to do anything.  > I > SCSI ID 7 is probably the ID of the controller inside the AlphaStation.aH > The personality module that slides into the shelf and accepts the SCSII > cable from the controller on the Alpha doesn't have an ID.  If you havelF > switch positions 1, 2, and 3 ON then the devices in the shelf should# > show up as SCSI IDs 8 through 13.   A Thanks for the info. However, I don't know whether or not you areaB familiar with the BA364, but it is not like the BA356. There is no? slide-in personality module. There is a space for a permanently B mounted CDROM and four spaces for StorageWorks drives. On the backF there are four dip switches with four switches each, which are used toB set the SCSI ID of each slot. I can use the leftmost three of eachF switch to set the SCSI ID but the fourth one is ignored. The specs sayD that the BA364 is a wide device, so I should be able to set the ID's above 8.   Thanks.0 Bill McLaughlinm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:07:07 -0500a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger), Subject: Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 500L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1002032107090001@user-uinj4gt.dialup.mindspring.com>  = In article <e9cbc4f2.0302101448.57d772fa@posting.google.com>,i- mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) wrote:u  7 >kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote in message / news:<$jbvuA9Gv7TB@eisner.encompasserve.org>...o@ >> In article <e9cbc4f2.0302052114.2572665e@posting.google.com>,. mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:I >> > I have a BA364 enclosure connected to an AlphaStation 500/266 (modeleA >> > PB540-A9). According to the documentation, the built-in SCSI I >> > controller is "fast wide SCSI-2". However, when I do a "show dev" at I >> > the SRM prompt, the controller shows up as SCSI ID 7. When I set theeK >> > fourth ID switch on any drive position, it is ignored-- only the firstf( >> > three switches seem to do anything. >> -J >> SCSI ID 7 is probably the ID of the controller inside the AlphaStation.I >> The personality module that slides into the shelf and accepts the SCSI3J >> cable from the controller on the Alpha doesn't have an ID.  If you haveG >> switch positions 1, 2, and 3 ON then the devices in the shelf should.$ >> show up as SCSI IDs 8 through 13. >-B >Thanks for the info. However, I don't know whether or not you areC >familiar with the BA364, but it is not like the BA356. There is nob@ >slide-in personality module. There is a space for a permanentlyC >mounted CDROM and four spaces for StorageWorks drives. On the backeG >there are four dip switches with four switches each, which are used to C >set the SCSI ID of each slot. I can use the leftmost three of eachiG >switch to set the SCSI ID but the fourth one is ignored. The specs sayeE >that the BA364 is a wide device, so I should be able to set the ID's 	 >above 8.a  H I'm not certain the older alpha systems support wide SCSI IDs, even whenI the underlying hardware allows it.  If you can find the SOC or QuickSpecst* for this system, there might be more info.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 20:41:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: SCSI ID > 6 on AlphaStation 5003 Message-ID: <Pp6OtOhXeFJu@eisner.encompasserve.org>-   In article <rdeininger-1002032107090001@user-uinj4gt.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:t  J > I'm not certain the older alpha systems support wide SCSI IDs, even whenK > the underlying hardware allows it.  If you can find the SOC or QuickSpecs , > for this system, there might be more info.  5 The _systems_ support wide SCSI, even if HP does not.q  A That is, I have a dual-host scsi bus between a DEC 3000 Model 400l= and a newer machine.  The DEC 3000 end has no trouble servingo2 the two BA35n boxes to other nodes in the cluster.   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Feb 2003 20:26:40 GMT# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)fI Subject: Re: Seeking TeX (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Freeware Submissions)a* Message-ID: <b291u0$le8$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  s In article <20030210142000.6DD38FFD.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:-< :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: :dD :> In the past, I have found Ralf Grtners [TEXMF...] stuff ((La)Tex? :> for VMS) very useful; I hope a current version is on the CD.s : E :It IS the current version :) Though pi is now larger, so that may be1 :moved into the VMS kits.     H   I do not presently assume that anything on any current Freeware CD-ROML   distribution will be directly carried through to the next Freeware CD-ROM.  J   With Freeware V5.0, I was unable to carry over any older packages simply<   due to the volume of new and changed submissions received.  J   If there is a new TeX kit, I do not (presently) know about it.  If thereJ   is one, I need to know where.  If there are other new or updated kits, I#   need to see the submission email.-    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com$   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 11:54:02 -0700o) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com>aY Subject: Smart Array 5300A, Storageworks 4300 Ultra Tower, OpenVMS 7.3-1, and an ES40 ...h8 Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.10.18.54.02.213161@hotmail.com>  ? Going to redo this beast next month I think....any surprises ore5 experiences that anyone would like to share?  Thanks!a   James    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Feb 2003 14:26:55 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) 8 Subject: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0302101426.4a3d3709@posting.google.com>e   Dear Newsgroup,-  F I just sent this out, please be aware that it may take a little bit of2 time for all the local offices to hear about this.  e! The following WEB SITE is public.D  C  Part number: 3X-DEGXA-TA (Copper)    - SA (Fiber)   Orderable now.o  eD  Full Support statements in a month or so.  It'll required 7.3-1 and the LAN ECO kit..e  
 Warm regards,n Suee  i -----Original Message----- From: Demers, Leo ' Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:57 PM/ To: Skonetski, Susan< Subject: RE: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel    F Yes Sue it can go to everyone.  When we had announced Marvel we did soF with a limitation on gigabit ethernet that is now removed for Marvel. E  Note: The DEGXA is being qualified on other platforms as we type and A we expect DEGXA support of all currently shipping platforms to beo* announced by the end of the month.   - Leo    -----Original Message----- From: Skonetski, Susan o' Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:52 PMr To: StLaurent, Pat Cc: Demers, Leo; Kane, Suzy < Subject: RE: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel    = I assume that since it is on the external site this can go to 	 everyone?     suet    -----Original Message----- From: StLaurent, Pat p' Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:42 PM  To: Skonetski, Susan Cc: Demers, Leo; Kane, Suzyi8 Subject: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel     Hi Sue,   s< Please forward this support notification to the Ambassadors.  tE The AlphaServer ES47 and GS1280 (Marvel systems) now support clustersw with> the DEGXA, the new Tigon3 based Gigabit Ethernet adapter.  The documentF "hp OpenVMS New Features and Release Notes for hp AlphaServer ES47 and GS1280 Series Systems"+ on the following web page has been updated:-  -3 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/new_alphaserver1.html  Thanks!g   -Pat   Pat St.Laurent( Platforms and Graphics Business Manager  OpenVMS Systems  Hewlett-Packardd
 Nashua, NH Phone: 603-884-6101    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:07:04 -0500t' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>nY Subject: RE: Sysgen and UAF memory limit recommendations for Oracle on small machine (256 T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D5D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,i  G As a fyi, I would suggest upgrading to VMS V7.3-1 as I suspect you willr3 find the overall performance much better than V7.3.-  H Having stated that 256MB is not a lot of memory for a server these days.    G Heck, most desktop PC's require 256MB to run latest Windows XP softwares2 with a number of standard desktop applications.=20  A However, Oracle 9.2.0.2 (9i R2) for OpenVMS is also available foreA download off the standard Oracle download OTN site and from a few4B reports, is much better than the original 9I release that came outD (9.0.1.x) awhile ago (on all platforms). Oracle 9.2.0.2 is certified with OpenVMS V7.3-1 as well.  G There are also some very recent articles in Oracle's Metalink (databaser< of known issues and problems and user forums) online supportF environment. A number of these outline recommended process quota's for Oracle 9i R@ on OpenVMS.  G In the troubleshooting side, there are a number of options available tofH monitor process quota's in real time to see what quota is being used up.D One is Availability Manager (free download off OpenVMS site) and theB others include freeware process monitoring dcl procedures that are around.        Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantg Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMe     -----Original Message-----6 From: Bill McLaughlin [mailto:mcbill20@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: February 10, 2003 1:46 PMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComhH Subject: Sysgen and UAF memory limit recommendations for Oracle on small machine (256MB)o    F Is anyone out there running Oracle 9i on an Alpha with only 256MB? TheF release notes state that this is the absolute minimum for a machine to@ run 9i. Now that I have Java updated and the appropriate patchesG installed, the Java installation procedure runs OK. However, it gets to F about 80% and then hangs the machine (after about 5 hours). The secondH time I was able to catch it before the point of no return and discoveredG the three Oracle install processes were in RWMPB state. I quickly addedmH a new paging file and was able to keep the system from hanging. However,? the Oracle installation immediately died with no error message.   B I have been trying to adjust the working set parameters and sysgemE parameters but this is very time consuming as the failures occur fiveL$ hours or more into the installation.  D If anyone out there has successfully installed 9i on a small machineB like this, I'd appreciate hearing how you did it (page file quota, wsmax, etc.)  E The machine has two paging files of approximately 500,000 blocks each' and is running VMS 7.3.t   Thanks.t Bill McLaughlinm   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:51:06 -0500hA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>n$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's, Message-ID: <3e4802ab_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA news:akT1a.12615$Qf1.9644@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...i   > Believe what you want Fred.   K I think you mistook what I meant, or I mispoke what I meant.  I hear you asrJ saying "don't bother" and then saying that past behavior has precluded the9 option, and that you wouldn't suggest it to the customer.n  L So far, no customer has come in with a blank check for *me*.  If you believeJ that there *is* a business possibility here, they please follow it up with direct contact.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:52:51 -0600J1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>O$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's' Message-ID: <3E486583.F105621F@fsi.net>t   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip]3 > I would not expect to see VMS advertising on TV. m  C I would not expect VMS to survive without it. Doing so would put myt sanity in question.d   > What you *can* expect is* > that when we see specific opportunities,  E *CAN* HP/Q see an opportunity? Would they know it if it jumped up and.H bit their head off? Experience to date does not support a positive claim in response to such query.   > we will work with key ISV'se  ) ...and the rest be damned, I suppose... ?a   > to get > their SW on VMS.  F Hire people like me with the balls - and the *COMMITMENT* - to get any- ISV who will still listen on board with VMS. f  < Then, you *MIGHT* garner some credibility, *NOT* *BEFORE*!!!   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:56:44 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's' Message-ID: <3E48666C.6AC363BF@fsi.net>I   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > news:akT1a.12615$Qf1.9644@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...e >  > > Believe what you want Fred.  > M > I think you mistook what I meant, or I mispoke what I meant.  I hear you astL > saying "don't bother" and then saying that past behavior has precluded the; > option, and that you wouldn't suggest it to the customer.  > N > So far, no customer has come in with a blank check for *me*.  If you believeL > that there *is* a business possibility here, they please follow it up with > direct contact.e  F To date, such efforts have yielded no discernible results, positive or	 negative.   H ...and before you ask, yes, we *HAVE* sent leads to the highest levels -H Gallozzi or higher. We did not receive so much as a delivery and/or readE receipt in return. I was tempted to send certified mail, perhaps evenm; attempt to deliver in person, but figured what's the point.    -- t David J. DachteraH dba DJE SystemsI http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 01:24:35 -0400f0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV's/ Message-ID: <3E488912.CB6CEABA@vl.videotron.ca>t   John Smith wrote: H > Most *new* or former ISV's will want to see some solid commitment fromG > HP with some other high profile ISV's who have recently been 'broughth% > on-board' before they get involved.     N Commitment from VMS' owner is meaningless, as we all know.  ISVs need to see aK clear change in how VMS is handled, they need to see a clear desire to growt- VMS, let it compete against Unix and Windows.e  L "Making commitments" is just status quo. "we promise not to kill VMS for the1 next X years". That is not what ISVs need to see.w  N VMS' owner must change the way it handles VMS such that those commitments willN no longer be necessary because customers and ISVs will no longer fear that the" onwer will want to get rid of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 15:49:56 -0500n# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>3" Subject: RE: VMS source listings ?: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDAEIGCLAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > , > Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > . > > >   OBTW:  is it Pee-El-One or Pee-El-Aye? > > Q > > Pee-El-One.  (The I is Roman numeral 1.  IBM had a great idea about combiningoS > > the best of Fortran, Cobol, and Algol to make the first really good Programming . > > Language; thus, Programming Language One.) > ) > You mean the One-Bee-Em company?    :-)  >  > Alan  I  When I took the class in 1972 it was taught as pee-ell-one and it ran ond  one-blue-machine ;-)t    Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:40:13 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t  Subject: Re: What is a Cluster ?' Message-ID: <3E48628D.F2B5F70E@fsi.net>    Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Stuart Johnson wrote:dM > > This reminds me of a quote by some female Microsoft spokesperson who saidfO > > some years back that Microsoft obeys industry "standards" and if they don'tu  > > like them, they change them. > F > The phrase you're thinking of is "Embrace and Extend".  It's been MS > policy for some time now.-  E Oh, well, in that case, it would be more accurate to say, "Acquire bymD any means, legal or illegal, claim as our own, add little to make itH look like we really originated it and then tout it as industry standard,  whether anyone likes it or not."   --   David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.083 ************************