0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 13 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 88      Contents:; (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? RE: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? RE: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731  Re: Cluster Info from DCL  Re: Cluster Info from DCL * Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS?* Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS?+ Re: Concurrent license - process allocation # Re: CSwing & TAR on OpenVMS v7.3-1?  Re: DFO 2.7 and scripts G Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages G Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages G Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages  Re: Fun with FC-AL= Gartner Sumposium ITxpo in San Diego to include Cappellas, HP  GNV - command line editing6 Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily6 Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily7 Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp 7 Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp % Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration $ How to shut off Intrusion Detection?( Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?( Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?( Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection? Re: HSZ50 Battery Qs  Re: Java & OSU Web Server on VMS= Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available = Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available = Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available ! Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices % Re: Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices % Re: Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices  Re: More Oracle weirdness ' ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? + Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? + Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? + Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? + Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? + Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?  Re: OpenVMS Boot press release- Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ; Re: Poor disk i/o performance on DS10L (scsi) OpenVMS 7.3-1 % Re: Print using Different Input Trays A Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS  Re: The importance of ISV's  Re: The importance of marketing  Re: The importance of marketing  Re: UCX XDM, Linux vncserver Re: VMS @25 CD now available Re: VMS @25 CD now available. Re: What kind of connector does KZPBA-CC have?. Re: What kind of connector does KZPBA-CC have?( Re: Where to find Oracle RDB information( Re: Where to find Oracle RDB information  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:39:02 -0500 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>D Subject: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731/ Message-ID: <3E4B67B6.18933.378089C0@localhost>   D I sent some feedback to HP's webmaster about problems using Mozilla D at the DSPP website.  Apparently, HP hasn't woken up to non-Windows C operating systems that it sells (HP-UX, Linux, Tru64 UNIX, and, of  
 course, VMS).   $ Here's the response (highly edited):  ) ------- Forwarded message follows ------- A [...] Our portal engineers indicate that the portal site requires @ use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or Internet Explorer 4.0 or above.C Javascript and Style Sheets must be enabled, and your browser must   accept cookies.   [...] ; Due to the majority of our members using Microsoft Internet E Explorer 4.0 or above the portal is not tested on browsers with less   than 1%  monthly usage.  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 10:42:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) H Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557313 Message-ID: <jtteMSVqVCRr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3E4B67B6.18933.378089C0@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> writes:F > I sent some feedback to HP's webmaster about problems using Mozilla    > & > Here's the response (highly edited): >   = > Due to the majority of our members using Microsoft Internet G > Explorer 4.0 or above the portal is not tested on browsers with less  	 > than 1%  > monthly usage.    = That is an interesting example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:05:14 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>H Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731* Message-ID: <00A1B712.EC145BDC.8@decus.de>  + "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:   E > I sent some feedback to HP's webmaster about problems using Mozilla E > at the DSPP website.  Apparently, HP hasn't woken up to non-Windows D > operating systems that it sells (HP-UX, Linux, Tru64 UNIX, and, of > course, VMS).  > & > Here's the response (highly edited): > + > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- C > [...] Our portal engineers indicate that the portal site requires B > use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or Internet Explorer 4.0 or above.D > Javascript and Style Sheets must be enabled, and your browser must > accept
 > cookies. >  > [...] = > Due to the majority of our members using Microsoft Internet F > Explorer 4.0 or above the portal is not tested on browsers with less	 > than 1%  > monthly usage.  A A lot of HP's web pages are simply useless with JavaScript and/or F cookies disabled; that's not dependig on a specific browser ("InternetB Exploder", "Mozilla", ...) being used. Security and privacy issues( seem to be unknown to these "engineers".  > Which reminds me of an attitude of mind often seen using setupD programs to install Winwoes applications: "Confirm anything which isB shown to you by clicking 'OK' and 'Continue'. Shut up! You are notC allowed to ask any question! We already know what is best for you!"    Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:48:27 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>H Subject: RE: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557310 Message-ID: <01C2D345.0F63FB50@sulfer.icius.com>  D I just noticed something very interesting. When you go to www.hp.comF with Javascript disabled, you get a couple of links you don't get whenA it's switched on. One of them is "summary of site-wide JavaScript 7 functionality". The first paragraph on that page reads:   C "The hp.com web site employs the JavaScript programming language to ? implement some simple effects throughout the site. Its usage is C restricted to ancillary or duplicated functions, in order to ensure G access to those who can not or choose not to enable JavaScript in their  web browsing programs."   4 For some reason, the word "bulls**t!" comes to mind.  C I bet I know what's going on. They use Javascript to count how many E people go there with javascript off, but since we have javascript off A the counter doesn't work: they think everybody has javascript on!    Shane    -----Original Message-----+ From: Michael Unger [mailto:unger@decus.de] ) Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 9:05 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731    + "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> wrote:   E > I sent some feedback to HP's webmaster about problems using Mozilla E > at the DSPP website.  Apparently, HP hasn't woken up to non-Windows D > operating systems that it sells (HP-UX, Linux, Tru64 UNIX, and, of > course, VMS).  > & > Here's the response (highly edited): > + > ------- Forwarded message follows ------- C > [...] Our portal engineers indicate that the portal site requires B > use of Netscape 4.0 or above, or Internet Explorer 4.0 or above.D > Javascript and Style Sheets must be enabled, and your browser must > accept
 > cookies. >  > [...] = > Due to the majority of our members using Microsoft Internet F > Explorer 4.0 or above the portal is not tested on browsers with less	 > than 1%  > monthly usage.  A A lot of HP's web pages are simply useless with JavaScript and/or F cookies disabled; that's not dependig on a specific browser ("InternetB Exploder", "Mozilla", ...) being used. Security and privacy issues( seem to be unknown to these "engineers".  > Which reminds me of an attitude of mind often seen using setupD programs to install Winwoes applications: "Confirm anything which isB shown to you by clicking 'OK' and 'Continue'. Shut up! You are notC allowed to ask any question! We already know what is best for you!"    Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:41:51 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGH Subject: RE: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557310 Message-ID: <00A1B6EE.26F11EAF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <01C2D345.0F63FB50@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: E >I just noticed something very interesting. When you go to www.hp.com G >with Javascript disabled, you get a couple of links you don't get when B >it's switched on. One of them is "summary of site-wide JavaScript8 >functionality". The first paragraph on that page reads: > D >"The hp.com web site employs the JavaScript programming language to@ >implement some simple effects throughout the site. Its usage isD >restricted to ancillary or duplicated functions, in order to ensureH >access to those who can not or choose not to enable JavaScript in their >web browsing programs." > 5 >For some reason, the word "bulls**t!" comes to mind.  > D >I bet I know what's going on. They use Javascript to count how manyF >people go there with javascript off, but since we have javascript offB >the counter doesn't work: they think everybody has javascript on!  4 Easy enough to prove or disprove... view the source.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:41:00 +0100 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>" Subject: Re: Cluster Info from DCL5 Message-ID: <b2fi69$1cdnv0$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: E >> I tried this and had to add a line to get the leading space out of ; >> the date-time string for the first nine days of a month.  > B > Actually, I screwed up and posted an old version. I don't have aG > cluster at home, so I don't have my current fixes here. I'll send the A > good one to myself from work and post it here over the weekend.  > F > I didn't use the VERSION keyword because it's not among those listedE > as working for nodes other than the local node. I'll check that out  > at work when I can.   F Indeed, VERSION only works on the local node. So, back to NODE_SWVERS.   cu,    Martin --  I One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmer 7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ? And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:06:23 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com" Subject: Re: Cluster Info from DCL? Message-ID: <OF84D7159C.FB10F72C-ON85256CCC.004D4F6A@metso.com>   I Strange.  I am running VAX V7.2, Alpha V7.2-2 and VERSION works for me on  non-local nodes.  " Perhaps more research is in order.   -Norm     K From:  "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> on 02/13/2003         02:41 AM   H Please respond to "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   % Subject:    Re: Cluster Info from DCL      David J. Dachtera wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: E >> I tried this and had to add a line to get the leading space out of ; >> the date-time string for the first nine days of a month.  > B > Actually, I screwed up and posted an old version. I don't have aG > cluster at home, so I don't have my current fixes here. I'll send the A > good one to myself from work and post it here over the weekend.  > F > I didn't use the VERSION keyword because it's not among those listedE > as working for nodes other than the local node. I'll check that out  > at work when I can.   F Indeed, VERSION only works on the local node. So, back to NODE_SWVERS.   cu,    Martin --I One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmer 7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:31:47 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>3 Subject: Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS? , Message-ID: <nsD2a.78922$2H6.1778@sccrnsc04>  . >Jim Agnew" <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote in message! news:3E4ABA64.BEE53AF2@vcu.edu... E > Go with Belkin... I've used their cable for years, and going by the : > workmanship, and some of the junk i've bought from 'em..  K Um, I've never seen anything but ChumPaq cards work with VMS. 3Com or Intel L cards may work, but I've never tried one. Nobody but ChumPaq has written VMS drivers for their cards.  F > your mileage may and probably will vary, and your commputer may hate > me... ;-)  >  > I hope not!! >  > Qua'Pla!!! >  > Jim  >  > Shane Smith wrote: > > D > > Having wrestled with it for a chunk of the day, I've just had toK > > conclude that my DE205 network card is either dead or not recognised by K > > my Alpha Server 1000A. It's an EISA, and I now hate EISA with a passion J > > you can only dream of. The ECU keeps telling me it's installed the ^#$J > > thing, then it's missing when the console goes looking for it at boot.4 > > I'm walking away before I put a boot through it. > > K > > Can anyone recommend an over-the-counter PCI network card I have a good H > > chance of finding in Fry's tonight that will work under VMS 7.3-1 in? > > this box? A D-Link maybe, a Linksys or something like that?  > > 	 > > Shane  > > B > >  #####   -----------------------------------------------------C > > #-O-O-# | Arthur: "It's times like this I wish I'd listened   | C > > #  L  # | to what my Mother used to say." Ford: Why, what did | C > >  #===#  | she say?" Arthur: "I don't know, I didn't listen."  | B > >   ###    -----------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 09:08:31 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 3 Subject: Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS? = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302130908.7c4f6c64@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2D1E6.0EADCE30@sulfer.icius.com>...I > Can anyone recommend an over-the-counter PCI network card I have a good F > chance of finding in Fry's tonight that will work under VMS 7.3-1 in= > this box? A D-Link maybe, a Linksys or something like that?   E Not likely.  I'd go for one of the DE500 series.  A DE600 series card  would be OK, too.   @ E-bay shows a DE500 for $10 right now, and another for 19.95.  I? bought three DE500-BAs for $10 each, new in the box, based on a C pointer to a website I found here in comp.os.vms a year or so ago.  " But you won't find these at Fry's.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2003 09:24:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: Concurrent license - process allocation3 Message-ID: <e7eFjeWMso8a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   v In article <58ba0101.0302120702.59b7290d@posting.google.com>, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) writes:  F > With OpenVMS layered product concurrent use licenses, is there a wayG > from OpenVMS that I can see from OpenVMS which licenses are currently   > allocated to which processes ?  C Certainly there is a method that will work using SDA to examine the D Lock Manager database, but details of that are not made available byC HP.  Perhaps you could determine it experimentally.  I presume that A no locks are taken by LMF for other than concurrent use licenses.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:54:57 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> , Subject: Re: CSwing & TAR on OpenVMS v7.3-1?, Message-ID: <3e4bbfd6_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message6 news:NsE2a.7190$jR3.3641275@news1.news.adelphia.net... > F > I pulled a VMSTAR off of the web somewhere, probably one of Hunter'sH > archives that knows ODS-5, and I have had no problems de-taring files.. > I have not tried creating a tarball with it. >   I I tried to create a tarball with it, it loops on after the first file.  I - ended up having to use tar from inside POSIX.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 02:23:27 -0800# From: pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn)   Subject: Re: DFO 2.7 and scripts= Message-ID: <23088ca1.0302130223.78025504@posting.google.com>   D Thanks Rick, but I've got MAIL notification explicitly turned off inE the DEFRAG script. However, I've got an email from another user who's D having identical problems - it's now in the hands of HP/Compaq. I'll- post a follow-up as soon as I hear something.   U Rick Dyson <fulco03@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<3E4A98EC.A349FF8E@chello.nl>...  > Phil Martyn wrote: > > G > > Anybody have any experience with DFO 2.7 and scripts. (3-node Alpha G > > cluster running OpenVMS 7.3 + all patches)I've just upgraded a test J > > system from DFO 2.6 and I now find that any scripts using predecessorsH > > won't run. The DFO scheduler process is running happily, the scriptsB > > appear fine. And scripts with a specific run date/time run OK.H > > However, once the 'main' script completes the successor doesn't kickH > > in. (A manual start of the successor script executes OK). Any clues.I > > BTW - I've logged a call with HP/Compaq but nothing from them either, , > > just yet. Any clues...Thanks in advance. > M > I don't use any pre or post commands in my DFO scripts.  Just Notifications O > which have apparently stopped working with v2.7.  I just noticed it yesterday % > and have confirmed it this morning.  > H > I have noticed (OpenVMS v7.2-1 and DFO v2.7) that the VMS MAIL messageJ > does not get sent from a job until another one is started.  Thus, when IG > start one script for a single disk it runs, completes, leaves the log N > file and the OpCom message, but does not send the VMS MAIL until another DFO > job is started.  > I > Note, I ran into a similar VMS MAIL problem on a VMS v7.3-1 system with N > ABS v3.2A.  If the notification used VMS MAIL, at the end of the job thread,M > it halted and never continued. This persisted until I got told by a support I > staff to remove all the notifications in the ABS SaveSet configs.  They L > claimed it was a Callable Mail interface problem.  Maybe that is true here= > too?  I don't use much that exercises that, so I can't say.  > M > The two are probably not related, but it is odd that they have occurred for M > me at about the same time on completely different systems and VMS versions. K > The VMS v7.2-1 system is pretty mature (actually out-of-date!), and fully K > patched so I would be suprised if it has gone this long with a bug in the  > Callable VMS Mail interface! > 
 > Regards, > rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:41:37 -0500 * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>P Subject: Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages5 Message-ID: <120220031541374398%paul.anderson@hp.com>   : In article <3E499DDA.C7EDE945@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  E > Wasn't it "normal" to have TXT and PS versions of the release_notes A > and installation_guide in most (all?) kit directories on the CD  > distribution.   F Yes, I forgot about that.  The Software Product Library still has textC and PostScript versions of the installation guide, cover letter and   SPD, but no other documentation.  : In article <11FEB200320341579@gerg.tamu.edu>, Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote:   A > A more accurate replacemwnet would probably be something in the E > LaserJet 2500 line, except that it would end up faster and probably A > higher resoluition and a lot less expensive. But you might have F > trouble using it from VMS - I don't know if they cooperate with DCPS> > or not (odds are that it is "not", until DCPS adds support).  @ Does "they" refer to the Imaging and Printing Group in Boise whoD produces most of HP's printers?  If so, "they" cooperate with us and  can even spell OpenVMS and DCPS.  C In article <v7TK3I$ud5pF@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen  <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  H > In article <11FEB200320402989@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl > Perkins) writes: > @ > > PDF is PostScript, mostly. It's just in a wrapper that holdsC > > additional information and allows for some addition stuff to be 	 > > done.  > >  > > Not that that helps much.  > F > Sure it does -- it means Paul Anderson could write a PDF symbiont to$ > print PDF files from VMS systems !  C The closeness of PostScript and PDF doesn't make it close enough to B print.  It's more than just a wrapper, as, for example, PostScriptD files are accessed sequentially and PDF files are accessed at random points in the file.   F And adding a PDF-to-PostScript translator in DCPS is on our unofficialG wish list.  If enough people want it, we could justify getting it done.   E In article <00A1B598.D1102FED@SendSpamHere.ORG>, < @SendSpamHere.ORG>  wrote:  E > In article <110220031803139859%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson   > <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:  D > >Brian, have you sent your suggestions to the documentation group? > J > Yes, back when the decision to drop Bookreader was made.  No concessionsL > were made then, so why should I believe the outcome would be any different > now?   Repeat after me:  A    MY GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF-EMPTY.  MY GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF-EMPTY. A    MY GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF-EMPTY.  MY GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF-EMPTY.   D Brian, seriously, send in your comments.  I can't guarantee anythingD will change, but the world is different now than when Bookreader was dropped.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:35:41 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGP Subject: Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages0 Message-ID: <00A1B63D.45704FAD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <120220031621569540%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:D >In article <h5rhhorBkqV6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Larry Kilgallen ><Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  > F >> In article <120220031541374398%paul.anderson@hp.com>, Paul Anderson! >> <paul.anderson@hp.com> writes:  >>  K >> > And adding a PDF-to-PostScript translator in DCPS is on our unofficial L >> > wish list.  If enough people want it, we could justify getting it done. >>  O >> And I suppose by "enough people" you mean more than just Brian and Larry :-(  > & >Sometimes Brian and Larry are enough.   Sometimes, we're both too much!    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:59:28 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> P Subject: Re: Doc Format Gripes (was: Re: HP hideousness of the OPenVMS web pages$ Message-ID: <3e4beb05$1@news.si.com>  G >I meant "they" as in "the printer". If you plug it into the VMS system H >(or have a version with a network card), can you print to it with DCPS? > F >As an example of not cooperating, try an HP 8500 DN. We have one that >doesn't work at all with DCPS  F And yet that same printer works just fine if you use Scriptserver fromH GrayMatter.  It seems to work with ANY Postscript printer, not just ones" that have been programmed into it. --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com 5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:35:24 -0500 % From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Fun with FC-AL % Message-ID: <3E4A69BC.6303E09@hp.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:3 >   The system disk is on the RA8000 as are all the 6 > data disks ( I use a SCSI disk for paging ). Booting5 > works fine from the FC disk. Similarly all the data 7 > disks work with no problem. I notice that some of the 2 > disks autoswitch to a different path right after7 > they are mounted. I tried killing one of the hubs and 6 > all the disks autoswitched to the paths on the other4 > hub. I'm able to move disks between paths with the2 > set device/switch/path command. I notice that if1 > you do this to the system disk you get an error 0 > when you next shutdown about not being able to4 > dump the errlog buffers - I presume some low-level4 > driver is remembering the boot path and can't deal1 > with the disk no longer being available on that  > path.   @ You need to set up WWID for all paths to the system disk and setB BOOTDEF_DEV to all of these paths.  This should remedy this error.  7 >    The one area that seems suspect is when I made one < > of the disks on the RA8000 a quorum disk. After doing this; > I noticed that I get "connect lost to quorum disk" errors 9 > fairly early in the boot sequence ( which resolve after > > a few seconds ). I also noticed the connection spontaneously; > being lost to the quorum disk for a few seconds after the 2 > system was up ( this may have been related to me0 > switching the quorum disk to another path with > SET DEVICE/SWITCH ).  G This is normal and expected.  The 1st loss is when VMS switches to $QIO G access to the quorum disk.  One would expect a quorum lost connection & ) regained connection when switching paths.      --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:23:48 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.comF Subject: Gartner Sumposium ITxpo in San Diego to include Cappellas, HP? Message-ID: <OF5E90BA60.D694F07C-ON85256CCC.0059C890@metso.com>   J Gartner Sumposium ITxpo in San Diego will include Michale Cappellas as one# of the Mastermind Keynote Speakers.    [Be still, my heart!]   1 HP is listed under Vendor Solution Presentations.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 06:06:53 -0800! From: andyho99@yahoo.com (Andrew) # Subject: GNV - command line editing = Message-ID: <8882aa3c.0302130606.720547eb@posting.google.com>    Hi,    C  I installed GNV Unix on Open/VMS - Alpha. It works great. The only  thing bothered me so farE is command line editing. I "set -o vi" so that I can edit my commands  as I were using viB editor. The vi command "cw" seems not working. It just changed one character instead of one word. Any idea?    B  BTW, is there any other leading Unix emulator for VMS? I am quite happy with GNV so far. IA use Cygwin as Unix emulator for Windows. It's great also. Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 06:21:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ? Subject: Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily 3 Message-ID: <JO1YsdBXXplu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <89fe5fbc.0302122119.5952aa37@posting.google.com>, root@zworg.com (Amarendra GODBOLE) writes: > Folks, > E > How do I grant privileges to non-privileged users temporarily ? The E > basic question is, I need user foo (non-privileged user) to do some = > database updates. For that I have to elevate his privileges F > temporarily, and give him CMKRNL as well as BYPASS privileges. AfterA > doing this operation, his old privileges will be restored back.   F That involves very dangerous privileges.  You don't say what database,F so I will presume the best: Oracle Rdb.  VMS-style ACLs are supported,F so you can set the appropriate permissions and avoid privileges in the
 best case.  H > My solution (after reading the Hack-VMS-FAQ, and some other stuff) is:A > 1. Install an image (say GRANTPRIV.EXE), with CMKRNL and BYPASS 
 > privileges. - > 2. GRANTPRIV.EXE basically does two things: ' >    a. Grants the required privileges. ( >    b. Does the database manipulations.C > 3. Now as a normal user foo, I'll call GRANTPRIV.EXE from my user - > program, which will then do the job for me.   E That will work, but it involves a lot more trust that there is no bug C in GRANTPRIV.EXE.  By your post here I infer that you do not have a H full staff of coworkers prepared to do formal inspection of the program,; so you are better off relying on less dangerous techniques.   F > Someone tells me that, a `sharable image' does the same thing. I wasH > unable to find more info on sharable image. Can someone point me to it > ?   A They were presumably talking about a "Privileged Shareable Image" C aka "User Written System Service".  That would require operating in > Executive mode, and I do not believe Oracle Rdb supports beingE called from Executive mode.  Probably Oracle Classic does not either. E The only think I know of that vaguely resembles a database and allows C being called from Executive mode is RMS, but you said Database.  It B might be possible to elevate privileges in Executive mode and dropE back to User mode for the database operation, relying on an Executive B mode exit handler to drop privileges before returning to DCL.  ButC that would require ensuring that only particular images are able to E invoke the privileged shareable image, so you might as well drop back B to a simpler technique, particularly if you have never done any of this before.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:41:55 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> ? Subject: Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily ' Message-ID: <3E4BAEB3.6050504@MMaz.com>    Amarendra GODBOLE wrote:  D >How do I grant privileges to non-privileged users temporarily ? TheD >basic question is, I need user foo (non-privileged user) to do some< >database updates. For that I have to elevate his privilegesE >temporarily, and give him CMKRNL as well as BYPASS privileges. After @ >doing this operation, his old privileges will be restored back. > G You are not clear as to whether these DB updates are the results of an  G application or administrative task.  If it is an application, then you  B should be able to accomodate the need via DB ACL's but if you are D talking about granting temporary VMS priv's for DB Admin tools that F require elevated privs to function properly, then you are presently a G more risky proposition.  Years past, we had a need to provide elevated nF privs to non-priv users for specific tasks, and a peer Ken Turley had I developed a set of tools called Grant/Revoke ID which used a combination EH of identifiers and these tools to do just that...  Misused, and you are G creating a major security hole.  It may be worth doing a Google to see f- if he has posted them to the public domain...d   Regards,   Barry    -- M  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028F   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:41:20 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>@ Subject: Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp> Message-ID: <QnM2a.24499$KM2.3644149@twister.southeast.rr.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E4B0DBD.AFCB3DD7@fsi.net...e > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >eJ > > Previously known as the OpenVMS Symposium will be the week of November > > 10th 2003. >e8 > Happen to know if dates have been set for HP-ETS 2003?    # OpenVMS.org: OpenVMS Related EventsB, http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Events     -- Kenneth Farmer <><   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:15:09 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> @ Subject: Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp' Message-ID: <3E4B0DBD.AFCB3DD7@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > H > Previously known as the OpenVMS Symposium will be the week of November > 10th 2003.  6 Happen to know if dates have been set for HP-ETS 2003?   -- i David J. DachteraC dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 05:23:58 -0800$ From: jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer). Subject: Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration= Message-ID: <5697eb95.0302130523.23a1ba61@posting.google.com>e  = I want to get a license for the OpenVMS Hobbyist version fromn	 Montegar.n< I am using Charon VAX-emulator on a windows PC. I can selectC CHARON-VAX as CPU type at the registration form but from where do In get the CPU serial number ???J   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:07:28 -0700n) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com>t- Subject: How to shut off Intrusion Detection? 8 Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.12.19.07.28.275548@hotmail.com>   Help!u  G Been trying to find out just HOW do shut off the Intursion Detection iniG OpenVMS...this machine is internal only, so I don't see a big reason tohG have this functioning.  Any clue as to where to look for this?  Thanks!    Jamesg   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:02:45 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?h0 Message-ID: <3E4AA6DE.4E1D616F@blueyonder.co.uk>   DigiDemon wrote: >  > Help!g > I > Been trying to find out just HOW do shut off the Intursion Detection ineI > OpenVMS...this machine is internal only, so I don't see a big reason to I > have this functioning.  Any clue as to where to look for this?  Thanks!S >  > Jamest    E Look at the LGI_ sysgen parameters, in the System Managers manual andb$ System Management Utilities manuals.   -- o tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 07:58:58 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)1 Subject: Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?e= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302130758.44e99d0d@posting.google.com>L  i "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.02.12.19.07.28.275548@hotmail.com>...Z > Help!v > I > Been trying to find out just HOW do shut off the Intursion Detection inBI > OpenVMS...this machine is internal only, so I don't see a big reason to-I > have this functioning.  Any clue as to where to look for this?  Thanks!0 >  > James0  C Just curious: Why is this a problem? Does it normally take you moree than 5 attempts to log in?   Dislcaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman6   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:16:57 GMTa+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>s1 Subject: Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection? 2 Message-ID: <BA70B098.4379%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  K On 2/12/03 11:07 AM, in article pan.2003.02.12.19.07.28.275548@hotmail.com,-* "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote:   > Help!t > I > Been trying to find out just HOW do shut off the Intursion Detection inoI > OpenVMS...this machine is internal only, so I don't see a big reason to I > have this functioning.  Any clue as to where to look for this?  Thanks!j >  > Jamesm   James,  ; Setting the sysgen parameter LGI_BRK_TMO to 0 should do it. H This says Intrusion detection will expire immediately after an intrusion occurs.    Jeff Cameron  > Order your own "OpenVMS DCL, The Original .COM" Bumper Sticker http://www.jcameron.com/vms/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:24:58 -0500 % From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@hp.com>- Subject: Re: HSZ50 Battery Qs3& Message-ID: <3E4BD4EA.AC398A56@hp.com>  E I know that it sounds very unfair but I don't make the rules.  An HSZ F owner that needs the serial number reset for ANY reason has to pay $$$E either via a service contract or on a per-call basis.  The details onlH how this is done are company confidential and it would be a disciplinaryG offense for an employee to tell you or to do the work without following 
 procedure.  
 Manser wrote:m > But i have one question: > E > what happens when that Battery goes flat ? and what i to do in thatr
 > situation ?s= > about the secret way to get the serial number back, i stilla
 > interested.f >  > Nazim Manser.    -- -C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NYr0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or soe 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:25:41 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")) Subject: Re: Java & OSU Web Server on VMS 6 Message-ID: <00A1B62B.157E75A8@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ] In article <3E4A9A59.7060406@ceris.purdue.edu>, Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> writes:d >Group,  >-I >Can anyone tell me if the OSU Webserver is capable of running JAVA, and t' >is anyone running JAVA on this server?f  L The OSU webserver was capable of running server-side Java several years ago,E and should still be.  I never had enough need of it to get it set up.    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056wM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025wO ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2003 15:31:58 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iF Subject: Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available3 Message-ID: <lmGX0o8JPrcB@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  b In article <3e4a7934$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:L >>HP is pleased to announce the availability of the Kerberos T2.0 field test >>kit for hp OpenVMS Alpha,U > 7 > And this is not available for OpenVMS VAX because...?       It take too long to compile?>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:44:36 -0500i, From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@hp.com>F Subject: Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available& Message-ID: <3E4ACE54.866104F5@hp.com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > M > >HP is pleased to announce the availability of the Kerberos T2.0 field test  > >kit for hp OpenVMS Alpha, > 7 > And this is not available for OpenVMS VAX because...?     We haven't finished it yet.  :-)  O Seriously, we knew that we needed to have Kerberos for Alpha ready first, since N it is scheduled to ship with OpenVMS V7.3-2 (an Alpha-only release) later thisM year.  The next OpenVMS VAX release is further out, so we concentrated on thee Alpha version first.  O We're working on the VAX port, and we'll let you know as soon as it's ready fore field test.v  M And yes... we'll also be porting it to Itanium as well.  In fact, the earlier:F version of Kerberos for OpenVMS has already been run through the crossL compiler, and had very few issues to resolve.  We expect similar results for Kerberos V2.  M So that's the order you can expect Keberos V2 to be released in:  Alpha, thens VAX, then Itanium.  M Of course, the MIT security advisory caused us to advance our schedule a bit,oJ and so we're field testing the Alpha version prior to OpenVMS V7.3-2 fieldJ test.  This way, we can give something to customers who need to plug those* holes in the earlier versions of Kerberos.   	Wayne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:21:53 -0500 . From: "Leo Demers" <leo_dot_demers@HP_dot_com>F Subject: Re: Kerberos T2.0 field test kit for hp OpenVMS now available* Message-ID: <3e4ad87b@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  I > >>HP is pleased to announce the availability of the Kerberos T2.0 fieldv test > >>kit for hp OpenVMS Alpha,s > > 9 > > And this is not available for OpenVMS VAX because...?e >r! >    It take too long to compile?d > @ It'll only take too long if we try and compile it on VAXBAR. :^)1 http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~vance/www/vaxbar.htmlr  J Seriously, the engineering team is working on the OpenVMS VAX Kerberos 2.0 build environment now.  H Our original goal for Kerberos for OpenVMS V2.0 was to align it with the release of OpenVMS 7.3-24 and to have a VAX port done by the time 7.3-2 ships.L  The MIT advisory has forced us to accelerate our plans for getting Kerberos 2.0 out the door.-E   We bundled Kerberos V1.0 with OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-1 so as a result wer prioritized the Alpha 2.0eJ kit ahead of the VAX port. For Kerberos for OpenVMS VAX 1.0  you needed to download theG Kerberos kit as you didn't get it by default in 7.3.  Now that the T2.0u field test kit for Alpha is outiK there the team can work on the VAX release.  We have a small window of timeg for the VAX portG as the Itanimum port of  Kerberos will occupy the team in the very near  future.t   So stay tuned.    - Leo --
 Leo Demers  OpenVMS Security Product Manager Leo_dot_Demers_at_HP_dot_COM   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 02:58:35 -08007 From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) * Subject: Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices< Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0302130258.b3dc168@posting.google.com>   Hi,n  E I would like to provide some DCL to automatically configure some NICs"C on various flavours of AlphaServers (ES40, ES45, 4100). Obviously IbB can use a command such as TCPIP SET CONFIG INTERFACE xxx. But thisC requires an Interface ID (xxx) but the user will provide a physical  device name such as EIA0:t  D Can anyone provide me with a mapping from device name to interface ?  F (On an ES45 I known for example EIA0 maps to IE0 and EWA0 to WE0 but I/ would like a more concrete mapping if possible)    Regards, Steve Bainbridge   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2003 13:57:44 GMT/ From: Phil Tregoning <Philip.Tregoning@esa.int> . Subject: Re: Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices@ Message-ID: <Xns932193AA8DA9BPhilipTregoningesain@131.176.85.36>  ; stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) wrote in p4 news:a48f6f51.0302130258.b3dc168@posting.google.com:   > Hi,o > B > I would like to provide some DCL to automatically configure some> > NICs on various flavours of AlphaServers (ES40, ES45, 4100).C > Obviously I can use a command such as TCPIP SET CONFIG INTERFACE u@ > xxx. But this requires an Interface ID (xxx) but the user will. > provide a physical device name such as EIA0: > : > Can anyone provide me with a mapping from device name to
 > interface ?r > > > (On an ES45 I known for example EIA0 maps to IE0 and EWA0 to; > WE0 but I would like a more concrete mapping if possible)o   Have a look at the output from:a     $ TCPIP LIST COM  4 This shows the first letter of the interface name, a1 description and a type for all known devices. Thep8 second letter of the interface name comes from the type, as described by:     $ TCPIP HELP DEF COM /TYPE  4 Although on my system the help is not complete - for2 example it does not define the second letter for a wireless device (eg a WIA0).   Phil T   ------------------------------   Date: 13 FEB 2003 15:07:45 GMT2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher). Subject: Re: Mapping TCP Interfaces to Devices4 Message-ID: <13FEB03.15074512@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>  O In a previous article, stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge) wrote:d  G ->I would like to provide some DCL to automatically configure some NICs E ->on various flavours of AlphaServers (ES40, ES45, 4100). Obviously IaD ->can use a command such as TCPIP SET CONFIG INTERFACE xxx. But thisE ->requires an Interface ID (xxx) but the user will provide a physicala ->device name such as EIA0:a -> sF ->Can anyone provide me with a mapping from device name to interface ?  ( Not pretty but doable. Save output from:  % $ TCPIP LIST COMMUNICATION_CONTROLLER    in a file then parse that file.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonr7 --                karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  c   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:22:24 +0000 (UTC)e+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) " Subject: Re: More Oracle weirdness+ Message-ID: <b2fv5g$i79$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   l In article <e9cbc4f2.0302112240.33676930@posting.google.com>, mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin) writes:B >After a supposed successful install of Oracle 9i on VMS 7.3, I amB >seeing a strange message when I start up many of the executables," >including sqlplus and orapwd.exe: >eM >----------------------------------------------------------------------------m >$ sqlplus vE >%SYSTEM-I-EMULATED, an instruction not implemented on this processorV1 >was emulated at PC=00000000001D9C70, PS=0000001B E >%SYSTEM-I-EMULATED, an instruction not implemented on this processor21 >was emulated at PC=00000000001D9EE0, PS=0000001BaE >%SYSTEM-I-EMULATED, an instruction not implemented on this processor'1 >was emulated at PC=00000000001D9EE4, PS=0000001BgE >%SYSTEM-I-EMULATED, an instruction not implemented on this processor'1 >was emulated at PC=00000000001D9F28, PS=0000001BVE >%SYSTEM-I-EMULATED, an instruction not implemented on this processorr1 >was emulated at PC=00000000001D9F2C, PS=0000001B  >o  G Let me guess you are running on an older Alpha system with EV5 chips eg  an Alpha 2100.  J If you look on Metalink (http://metalink.oracle.com) at the FAQ for OracleF 9.2.0.2.0 you will find it is only supported on EV56 chips and later. = They have compiled the code with either /architecture=EV56 or  /OPTIMIZE=TUNE=EV56e  M According to HP/COMPAQ code compiled with these options should still run withhN Earlier chips such as EV5 but will run slower since the EV56 instructions willJ be emulated. I wasn't aware though that running it would put out all those! annonying informational messages.   J Also of course running it on EV5 or earlier chips will not be supported byL Oracle. I raised this as an issue hoping that they would at least support itO (even if they didn't encourage it) since according to HP/COMPAQ the code shouldr; work just not as quickly. However I've never had any reply.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     PS.   @ I use Oracle 8i on EV5 systems so this has really p*ssed me off.  E >SQL*Plus: Release 9.2.0.2.0 - Production on Tue Feb 11 23:24:08 2003- >-D >Copyright (c) 1982, 2002, Oracle Corporation.  All rights reserved. >m >Enter user-name:  >cN >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >4F >In addition, the so called "documentation" is unbelievable. There areC >so many inaccuracies and missing pieces in the 9i VMS InstallationmF >Guide and Administration Guides that I can't imagine a non VMS expert- >being able to ever figure out how to run it.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2003 07:07:05 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)0 Subject: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?3 Message-ID: <kCkzsa0SKcfL@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  I Are there any efforts underway to implement a read/write ODS-2 filesystemi for Linux ?r  H The one in FreeVMS is still read-only. Can the FreeVMS developers say if) they are moving to making it read/write ?F   Thanks for any information,i   Simon.   -- eB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:31:37 -0500o  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?4 Message-ID: <1030212170659.943A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On 12 Feb 2003, Simon Clubley wrote:  K > Are there any efforts underway to implement a read/write ODS-2 filesystem 
 > for Linux ?o > J > The one in FreeVMS is still read-only. Can the FreeVMS developers say if+ > they are moving to making it read/write ?s >  > Thanks for any information,l >  > Simon.  B The previous thread to this one (as they came up in my newsreader)= was the one about Terry's pictures of the 1st Itanium boot on3? www.openvms.org.  I was just looking at the site, examining theo= pictures, and buzzed a friend of mine on the intercom, saying?? "Do you want to see something neat?"  He said, "do you mean ther; pictures of VMS booting?  I've already seen them."  Then we.9 started discussing how they built the system disk for it.   ? I think the ultimate cool method for the initial boot of VMS on E a new architecture would be to start with the MSCP client (DUDRIVER?)t@ and boot by joining an existing cluster as a diskless satellite.9 The system disk for the new architecture would have been h? previously constructed on the cluster using cross-compilers and-7 normal VMS tools (INIT, CREATE/DIR, COPY, BACKUP, etc.)s  @ This would require only one hardware device to be working (otherB then the console of the new system): the ethernet NIC.  EverythingA else would be software, which should "just work" if your compilers is working!  (Just a SMOP :-)i  @ ISTR that the actual method they used (from another recent post)C was to use the Linux IA64 compilers to generate IA64 code.  I don'tt= know if this means they hacked the linux compilers to produce<= VMS-format .EXE's, or just used this in the initial stages of B getting the GEM backend working.  Or whether this meant "using the@ Linux IA64 compilers on a IA64 Linux system" or "cross-compilingA on an Alpha (either VMS or Linux) using the Linux IA64 compilers"   A *IF* they are actually compiling on Linux, the next question thatn> arose was how did the get the .EXE's onto the ODS-(2?,5?) IA64= system disk?  Did they dual-boot the IA system into Linux and @ use an ODS-2/5 filesystem to write the disk?  (Thus getting thisF reply back on topic; this was something we discussed as being a usefulC thing in its own right, just a minute before I read this post!)  Orl@ did they use FTP or NFS (or DECnet?) to get the files over to an@ Alpha VMS system, write them to disk, and then copy or carry theC disk over to the IA64 machine?  Or was the cross-compiling actuallye done on an Alpha running VMS?   ? It would be fun to hear about what method they actually used...m   --   John Santost Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:32:22 GMT # From: Jonas Lindholm <jlhm@usa.net>e4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?& Message-ID: <3E4ADA1C.8050306@usa.net>   Hi!l  9 I've just announced my ODS2 file system module for Linux..C The current version can read stream and variable record type files.   H Later versions will have write capabilities as well. My first step will G be a version that can do updates of existing stream and variable files.eB Later versions will have creation, deletion and renaming of files.  @ It is just a matter of time because it is not too hard to do it.   /Jonas Lindholm      John Santos wrote:  & > On 12 Feb 2003, Simon Clubley wrote: >  > K >>Are there any efforts underway to implement a read/write ODS-2 filesystem 
 >>for Linux ?2 >>J >>The one in FreeVMS is still read-only. Can the FreeVMS developers say if+ >>they are moving to making it read/write ?h >> >>Thanks for any information,  >> >>Simon. >> > D > The previous thread to this one (as they came up in my newsreader)? > was the one about Terry's pictures of the 1st Itanium boot onuA > www.openvms.org.  I was just looking at the site, examining theS? > pictures, and buzzed a friend of mine on the intercom, saying A > "Do you want to see something neat?"  He said, "do you mean thea= > pictures of VMS booting?  I've already seen them."  Then wes; > started discussing how they built the system disk for it.( > A > I think the ultimate cool method for the initial boot of VMS onuG > a new architecture would be to start with the MSCP client (DUDRIVER?)iB > and boot by joining an existing cluster as a diskless satellite.; > The system disk for the new architecture would have been >A > previously constructed on the cluster using cross-compilers ande9 > normal VMS tools (INIT, CREATE/DIR, COPY, BACKUP, etc.)2 > B > This would require only one hardware device to be working (otherD > then the console of the new system): the ethernet NIC.  EverythingC > else would be software, which should "just work" if your compilerd > is working!  (Just a SMOP :-)P > B > ISTR that the actual method they used (from another recent post)E > was to use the Linux IA64 compilers to generate IA64 code.  I don'tw? > know if this means they hacked the linux compilers to produceI? > VMS-format .EXE's, or just used this in the initial stages ofaD > getting the GEM backend working.  Or whether this meant "using theB > Linux IA64 compilers on a IA64 Linux system" or "cross-compilingC > on an Alpha (either VMS or Linux) using the Linux IA64 compilers"i > C > *IF* they are actually compiling on Linux, the next question thath@ > arose was how did the get the .EXE's onto the ODS-(2?,5?) IA64? > system disk?  Did they dual-boot the IA system into Linux andsB > use an ODS-2/5 filesystem to write the disk?  (Thus getting thisH > reply back on topic; this was something we discussed as being a usefulE > thing in its own right, just a minute before I read this post!)  Or B > did they use FTP or NFS (or DECnet?) to get the files over to anB > Alpha VMS system, write them to disk, and then copy or carry theE > disk over to the IA64 machine?  Or was the cross-compiling actuallyp > done on an Alpha running VMS?  > A > It would be fun to hear about what method they actually used...l >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 11:43:33 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?3 Message-ID: <1$70fNNcWoMf@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  a In article <b2dij5$1ba9mi$1@ID-134246.news.dfncis.de>, Bruce Bowler <bbowler@bigelow.org> writes:WK > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:07:05 -0500, Simon Clubley put fingers to keyboardE > and said:a > A >> Are there any efforts underway to implement a read/write ODS-2c >> filesystem for Linux ?f >>   > I > The following appeared in comp.os.linux.announce late last night...  ItM > looks like it's still R/O. >   G Thanks for the pointer. I have now got the source code from the author.4   Simon.   -- AB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:38:51 +0000 (UTC)09 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>>4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?- Message-ID: <b2g04b$pd8$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>e  C Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote:,K : Are there any efforts underway to implement a read/write ODS-2 filesystemD
 : for Linux ?   J : The one in FreeVMS is still read-only. Can the FreeVMS developers say if   Two, actually.  + : they are moving to making it read/write ?b  J One is for VFS (meaning it can be mounted with the usual Linux mount), andJ it can only list the root directory (it can not even read ordinary files).G This one is a independent component, and it looks ripe for replacement.OG (It was some Linux-2.0 code from January 1997 someone had lying around, 3 and was modified just enough to get working in 2.4)   > The other one (based on ODS2 written by Nankervis) has its ownK RMS system services and utilities (and below is QIO and something XQP-ish).tI It has read support, and some (buggy) write support for sequential files.yG Some read support for indexed files (it can read a small, simple file).e   -- i -Roart   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:46:57 +0000 (UTC),9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>w4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?- Message-ID: <b2g0jh$pd8$2@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>e  $ Jonas Lindholm <jlhm@usa.net> wrote: : Hi!s  ; : I've just announced my ODS2 file system module for Linux. E : The current version can read stream and variable record type files.r  J Have you figured out exactly how indexed and relative files are structured yet?  & Do you have any current documentation?  
 -Roar Throns    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:24:38 -0600-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>0' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot press release ' Message-ID: <3E4B01E6.3477C18B@fsi.net>D   Brian Tillman wrote: > J > >But if I post stuff early and just get negative response it seems a bit > >pointless to me.I > N > The negative reactions are not, however, directed at you.  They are directedM > at HP, in hopes that you or some other HP employee will let management knowuN > that they just don't seem to want to spread the news about VMS properly.  No  > one is shooting the messenger.  C True, but if I were in Sue's shoes, I wouldn't enjoy catching those G grenades, missiles, etc. and passing them on to their intended targets.f  D Ken Farmer has recommended on multiple occasions to make noise intheF forums on OpenVMS.org because HP Mgt. *DOES* see that. I'd hate to seeC those fora deteriorate into what c.o.v. frequently becomes, but, to * quote a tune from the musical, "Godspell":    "You are the light of the world,# but if that light's under a bushel,k/ BBBRRR!!! It's lost something kind of crucial!"s   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:59:26 +0000r' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyf6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31, Message-ID: <3E4A452E.10900@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:> > "Andrew Harrison" <andrew.harrison@sun.com> wrote in message" > news:3E47C7AE.9090309@sun.com... >  > ...  >  > 8 >>There are currently 2 reasons why it has a much larger >>die size.S >>. >>1 Its on a 150 nanometer process other CPU's+ >>like SPARC are on 130 nanometer processesa >  > I > Since that's the second time you've said that, I guess is isn't a typo.CM > Itanic2's process is 180 nm, and Madison's will be 130 nm (as is typical ine= > the industry:  only SPARC made a 150 to 130 nm transition).w >   ) Sorry you are right, Itanium is currently- 180 nanometer not 150.  " Makes the point more resoundingly.   Regards  Andrew HarrisonS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:03:02 +00006' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3E4A4606.5010309@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:08:05 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancys0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >  >>IA32 has 16000+ apps.9 >>HP-PA has 5000+ apps.j >>IA-64 has ????  apps.d >>3 >>IA-64 has been available to developers since 2001.1 >>Oracle just released support for HP-UX on IA-64O0 >>and no other Oracle products, hardly a ringing >>endorsement. >> >  > H > Hmm... well, if I were an ISV with limited resources, I may decide notC > to actively work on the IA64 version until we're closer to volumegF > shipment.  I could have active plans to support it, but no reason to@ > start real work until it's within 1 year (6 months?) of volume > shipment of real systems.x > D > I just couldn't see why anyone ISV would be too motivated with the6 > small release "developer" systems available to date. >   6 Fine but Itanium is currently only partially supported8 by Oracle and not currently supported by Microsoft. They: are the two ISV's with the most resources in the industry.  9 If you cannot those two to commit in a sensible timeframer= then how are you going to persuade the ISV's who do fall intoe$ you category to do the same thing ??   Regardsa Andrew HarrisonI   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:53:03 -0500hA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>M6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e4a5fd0$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 7 wrote in message news:3E4A4B52.40500@nospamn.sun.com...r >u >r > Thanks you proved my point.r >e/ > I sort of hoped that you would be a Z3 owner.s > B > The Z3 may look good although many people don't agree with this,G > however it doesn't do well on roadholding or performance. Most people G > think that the Z3 and the 8 series were the two worst BMW's in recent A > years and not a patch on the 3-5-7 in terms of their cabilitiesaA > when compared with what you could spend your cash on with other  > auto manufacturers.i >w > Which model do you have ?  >h  E I actually own a 528i and a Z3.  I went to purchase a Miata (as I wasGK getting rid of a RX-7) and after road testing it against the Z3, I chose tooI spend the additional money for the Z3 - it's handling is *superb*.  I cantJ and do compare the handling and performance of the Z3 against the 5 seriesL on a regular basis, and have not found it wanting (well, except on snow withK the stock tires ;-).  Have you ever driven one?  I decided to stay with thegJ 4-cyl engine on it, because I could see too many tickets in my future withH the 6-cyl.  I also like the more classic smaller engine handling since IE tend to drive on twisty New England roads, and not on the expressway.a  K The Z8 is a pretty car, but at $132k it's not something I will be likely toa- test drive or purchase.  The Z4 is butt ugly.e  D Stick to finding benchmarks for 72cpu systems to make you look good.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:59:48 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31K Message-ID: <Ejt2a.654864$F2h1.224876@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E486B00.4F083A00@fsi.net...c > Robert Deininger wrote:n > > ? > > In article <3E485A0D.34FBED8E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"1" > > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > >TD > > >I actually got thrown out of a prospective customer's place for tryingD > > >to sell him a VMS-based system (I'd been keeping that aspect as quiet asB > > >possible until I got the one-on-one with him - didn't want to kill theD > > >prospect before I even got myself in front of the customer). He claimedb@ > > >that I, like Compaq, was a filthy liar and he accused me of
 taking himE > > >for a fool. He threw me physically out of his board room and had,F > > >security escort me off the premises in handcuffs. I had to enlist theeE > > >assistance of the local police to recover my car and my personalvF > > >belongings (had to sign a complaint of grand theft auto and petty > > >theft). > >AC > > Is this for real?  Private security folks laid hands on you and 
 put you in< > > handcuffs, with no provocation?  Sounds like assault and
 kidnapping to E > > me.  You ought to bleed every last dime out of those responsible,t and have > > them thrown in jail. >f@ > Not worth pursuing. The payback is not guaranteed to either be* > substantial or to offset the legal fees. > @ > > I belive VMS is used in a number of correctional facilities.	 Maybe theaC > > bums who did this to you will have close contact with VMS after  all. > A > Hhmmm... is there a correctional facility that can rehabilitate  those D > responsible for the marketing and promotion of VMS? ...set them on they > "right" path?: >0A > I wonder, and I wonder what authorites I would call to have the . > appropriate characters incarcerated there...    F The Chinese have a term for it - it's called 'rehabilitation' and it's+ done with a bullet to the base of the neck.9   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:08:34 +0000m' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3E4A7182.6060006@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 > wrote in message news:3E4A4B52.40500@nospamn.sun.com...g >  >> >>Thanks you proved my point.  >>/ >>I sort of hoped that you would be a Z3 owner.  >>B >>The Z3 may look good although many people don't agree with this,G >>however it doesn't do well on roadholding or performance. Most peopletG >>think that the Z3 and the 8 series were the two worst BMW's in recent A >>years and not a patch on the 3-5-7 in terms of their cabilitiesoA >>when compared with what you could spend your cash on with otherP >>auto manufacturers.i >> >>Which model do you have ?  >> >  > G > I actually own a 528i and a Z3.  I went to purchase a Miata (as I was.M > getting rid of a RX-7) and after road testing it against the Z3, I chose to-K > spend the additional money for the Z3 - it's handling is *superb*.  I can L > and do compare the handling and performance of the Z3 against the 5 seriesN > on a regular basis, and have not found it wanting (well, except on snow withM > the stock tires ;-).  Have you ever driven one?  I decided to stay with theyL > 4-cyl engine on it, because I could see too many tickets in my future withJ > the 6-cyl.  I also like the more classic smaller engine handling since IG > tend to drive on twisty New England roads, and not on the expressway.I >   A Not what I meant, the Z3 may well compare well handling wise with.= the 5 series, however it doesn't against other 2 seaters liket the TT, Lotus or Boxter.  > The 5 Series set the standard for that class of car as did the@ 3 series, though the 7 has bit more of a struggle competing with the big mercs and the new Jags.-  < I have tried a Z3 it was Ok but not very good in the wet and3 unless you got the 3.0 Sport not that quick either.u  : I have a TT 225, much more attractive car, faster than the8 Z3 except the 3.0 and with all wheel drive better in the wet.      M > The Z8 is a pretty car, but at $132k it's not something I will be likely toi/ > test drive or purchase.  The Z4 is butt ugly., > F > Stick to finding benchmarks for 72cpu systems to make you look good. >   ; Why do I need to when you have failed to hold up your end /_   regardsa Andrew Harrisons   >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2003 11:08:12 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young).6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 313 Message-ID: <Ssd2SPwJvMlG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <3e4a5ceb$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes: > K > The point being that a chip at a larger process size is still faster thandH > Sparc?  Seems to me the point is that there is a lot more headroom for > Itanium than Sparc.v >   < 	There is.  In many ways it really isn't fair though.  Intel< 	has the business savvy and technical resources to make IA32? 	dominate, for an ISA and infrastructure (regsiters?  who needs + 	registers?) that was/is seriously lacking.a  = 	There is a good possiblity of Itanium stealing a large chunkeA 	of HPC space in the next 2-3 years.  At 2000 SpecFp (projection)  	for Deerfield:-  = http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?AID=RWT012603224711&p=9   @ 	you see a part that "should" become the performance workstation9 	of choice and no doubt stuffed in servers (blades in theaG 	traditional sense?  At 100 Watts - probably not.  1U servers with fan . 	seems doable).a  A 	If I were to guess (why not), I would expect that Deerfield part > 	to be very competively priced.  It would kickstart Itanium ifB 	it came in at $600 or so in volume purchases and most importantly@ 	put a very good part in the high performance workstation space.  F 	Why $600?   Well.. certainly not $300.  $2000 per CPU for a Deerfield> 	and why bother?  As Deerfield is described as "low-cost" , it4 	doesn't strike me that $1000 per CPU fits the bill.  > 	All this to say, from a strengths and weaknesses standpoint, @ 	Deerfield is an interesting part if it delivers 2000 SpecFp20008 	and comes in around $600 (my idea of low-cost Itanium).   				Robm  J "The last time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through Paris , with a German flag."   --    David Letterman   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:11:25 -0500tA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>s6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3e4a8e4e$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r9 wrote in message news:3E4A7182.6060006@nospamn.sun.com...  >e >e > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:' > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"a' <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>u; > > wrote in message news:3E4A4B52.40500@nospamn.sun.com...n > >t > >> > >>Thanks you proved my point.l > >>1 > >>I sort of hoped that you would be a Z3 owner.l > >>D > >>The Z3 may look good although many people don't agree with this,I > >>however it doesn't do well on roadholding or performance. Most people-I > >>think that the Z3 and the 8 series were the two worst BMW's in recentSC > >>years and not a patch on the 3-5-7 in terms of their cabilities:C > >>when compared with what you could spend your cash on with otherL > >>auto manufacturers.t > >> > >>Which model do you have ?d > >> > >a > >cI > > I actually own a 528i and a Z3.  I went to purchase a Miata (as I wasOL > > getting rid of a RX-7) and after road testing it against the Z3, I chose toI > > spend the additional money for the Z3 - it's handling is *superb*.  I  can G > > and do compare the handling and performance of the Z3 against the 5p seriesK > > on a regular basis, and have not found it wanting (well, except on snow= withK > > the stock tires ;-).  Have you ever driven one?  I decided to stay withk the I > > 4-cyl engine on it, because I could see too many tickets in my future- withL > > the 6-cyl.  I also like the more classic smaller engine handling since II > > tend to drive on twisty New England roads, and not on the expressway.- > >- >-C > Not what I meant, the Z3 may well compare well handling wise withn? > the 5 series, however it doesn't against other 2 seaters liket > the TT, Lotus or Boxter. >l  J A pretty radical set of differences in prices.  I bought the Z3 before theG TT was around, and don't have the scratch to think about a Lotus or the>I Porche.  The Boxter is just funny looking.  I'm not even fond of the TT's I looks enough to even think about it.  The Z3 is one of the finest jobs ofoG pure styling in a roadster in many, many years - especially one that is-$ cheap enough for the great unwashed.  J It's almost unfair to compare the Z3 to the Miata, which I did.  Since theH fully loaded Miata was seveal thousands of dollars cheaper.  The Miata'sF handling is comparable to the older rx-7, and nowhere near the Z3.  OfC course, it's entirely possible that going upscale to the Porche for = instance, might provide superior handling superior to the Z3.o  @ > The 5 Series set the standard for that class of car as did theB > 3 series, though the 7 has bit more of a struggle competing with! > the big mercs and the new Jags.  >h  C The 7 is a nice looking car, I'd probably buy one of those before anF Ford-guar (I mean a Jag).  But there was a mint condition pre-Ford redL convertable/tan leather jag that someone had a for sale sign on a year or so# ago that had me pondering the idea.e  > > I have tried a Z3 it was Ok but not very good in the wet and5 > unless you got the 3.0 Sport not that quick either.n >n  J Turns out that the stock Michellin Z rated treads aren't all that great onH really slick roads.  I switched to a Toyo Z rated tire, and these thingsF even work well on snow.  They have a very-slightly less-smooth ride onH smooth pavement, but anyone in New England can tell you just how much ofJ that we have.  As to the engine... as I said, my first "sports" car was anL old Fiat, and I like the smaller, higher revving engine to one that will ripJ the tires off - and frankly there's noplace to go in the US where a higherL top end is useable unless you want to run it on the track - so I *chose* theJ 4-cyl over the 6-cyl.  I find for the weight of the car, it has no problemH with accelleration from any speed up to about 90mph.  The 5 speed manual transmission is smooth.i  < > I have a TT 225, much more attractive car, faster than the: > Z3 except the 3.0 and with all wheel drive better in the > wet. >.  L Performance aside, it's butt ugly.  I do envy the all wheel drive, which BMWI only has on the 3 series and the X5.  Of course, I've always wondered howaF the feel of the car would change when it's no longer a pure rear wheelJ drive.  And of course *it's ugly*.  Audi and Saab drivers must be the typeK who pick out the ugliest dog, or the seedy Christmas tree because they feelv sorry for it ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:19:21 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium( Message-ID: <3E4A9029.BB2A6BB4@mist.com>   John Vottero wrote:h > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...i, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > >t= > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316a > >WA > > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on ItaniumoD > > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY$ > > image and the bootstrap itself). > M > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?-  < I was wondering... does anybody have a screenshot of OpenVMS in a GUI mode??o7 I can't imagine having to use Windows as a front end toe OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:39:36 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium/ Message-ID: <3E4A9361.A1B3D1D@blueyonder.co.uk>o   GreyCloud wrote: >  > John Vottero wrote:u > >s> > > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message1 > > news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...o. > > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > > > ? > > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/23983160 > > > C > > > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on ItaniumaF > > > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY& > > > image and the bootstrap itself). > >eO > > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?A > > > I was wondering... does anybody have a screenshot of OpenVMS > in a GUI mode??r  E Presumably starting DECWindows and TCP/IP to get xdm running is a few 9 steps on from getting VMS to run a directory command :-).a  9 > I can't imagine having to use Windows as a front end tos
 > OpenVMS.  0 Console issues have been discussed here before.  -- E tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk t  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:12 -0500eA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> 2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium, Message-ID: <3e4a98cd_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  0 "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> wrote in message) news:v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com...a< > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...t, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > >M= > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316  > >lA > > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on Itanium D > > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY$ > > image and the bootstrap itself). >nD > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console? >D >1  L Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotK to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my chagrin)DK doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most peoplerH choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminalJ emulator, rather than running the little hack we have that will change theJ speed to something more useable - like 9600.  Of course, the i2000 consoleI also doesn't have flow control on it :(  But remember that this is an oldtJ Itanium 1 box based on the Intel reference design.  The management console- on the rx2600 for example, runs at 9600 baud.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:42:07 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium) Message-ID: <3E4B848F.A14D5D7B@127.0.0.1>2   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > W > In article <00A1B62E.594503D5@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:nt > > In article <3e4a98cd_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes: > >>{...snip...}P > >>Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotO > >>to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my chagrin)-O > >>doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most peopleYL > >>choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminal > >t > > Not everyone!0 > D > I think he meant everyone who will have access to VMS on an i2000.  F But I've booted Alpha and VAXen off a Psion 3a with terminal emulator., Platforms may change, but the methods won't.   We're engineers, not mechanics.P -- 0? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:48:52 GMTE" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium0 Message-ID: <00A1B62E.594503D5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <3e4a98cd_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:
 >{...snip...} M >Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotlL >to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my chagrin)L >doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most peopleI >choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminal   
 Not everyone!    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy            o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:11:26 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium/ Message-ID: <3E4AAA6A.608081E2@vl.videotron.ca>e   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > * > The Register (to give credit) points to: > C >         http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316   L Horror ! The thing booted with a microsoft windows used as console. HOW DARE YOU !1  K And besides, how do we know the output wasn't faked ? It should have booteds+ from an original VT220 to be authentic. :-)-  L Also, the directory command is incomplete since it does not show the current0 directory prior to displaying the list of files.     A few comments:s  M It should not be "OpenVMS (TM) Itanium Operating System".  Since Itanium is amK the current brand name for the current generation of IA64, it should be VMS  (IA64) on the message.  N Does Windows boot with "Windows (Pentium 4)" ? It is consider Windows 80x86 or2 whatever the generic name for the architecture is.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:51:33 -0800s" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium( Message-ID: <3E4AFA25.73664979@mist.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > >o@ > > I was wondering... does anybody have a screenshot of OpenVMS > > in a GUI mode??h > G > Presumably starting DECWindows and TCP/IP to get xdm running is a fewe; > steps on from getting VMS to run a directory command :-).  > ; > > I can't imagine having to use Windows as a front end toe > > OpenVMS. > 1 > Console issues have been discussed here before.:  < I already am using puTTY to communicate with an old 4000.  I8 just can't imagine doing it GUI style with a PC with X. ! Seems like a waste at this point.o9 I've never seen DECWindows in person and was wondering if 9 the fonts are clean or jagged like all the UNIX CDEs I'veC seen.F   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:40:22 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium0 Message-ID: <3E4B040F.3C1EECAD@blueyonder.co.uk>   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >t > > >gB > > > I was wondering... does anybody have a screenshot of OpenVMS > > > in a GUI mode??? > > I > > Presumably starting DECWindows and TCP/IP to get xdm running is a fewM= > > steps on from getting VMS to run a directory command :-).i > >w= > > > I can't imagine having to use Windows as a front end too > > > OpenVMS. > >i3 > > Console issues have been discussed here before.a > > > I already am using puTTY to communicate with an old 4000.  I9 > just can't imagine doing it GUI style with a PC with X. # > Seems like a waste at this point.r  < Why? It will work and you can have real decterms and pretend9 you have a VMS box on your desk, until you need to reboot ? Windows:-). A vnc client would be truly useful now vms has xdm. @ Of course, if you have a unix box hanging around you can run theD vnc server on that. I got the vnc source, but where is configure for vms?  ; > I've never seen DECWindows in person and was wondering ife; > the fonts are clean or jagged like all the UNIX CDEs I'vel > seen.n  E They look clean to me, certainly cleaner than the horrible mess linuxi comes with by default.   -- X tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk t  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:03:04 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>42 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium' Message-ID: <3E4B0AE8.49EF6C08@fsi.net>    John Vottero wrote:E > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...s, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > >a= > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316  > > A > > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on Itanium D > > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY$ > > image and the bootstrap itself). > M > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?a   Shirley you jest!a  ( The world is WhineBloze! Don't ya know?!   -- t David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:07:29 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>x2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium' Message-ID: <3E4B0BF1.B6DB8CA6@fsi.net>    John Vottero wrote:  > < > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message/ > news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...w, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > >u= > > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316w > >aA > > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on Itanium D > > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY$ > > image and the bootstrap itself). > M > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?d  G I s'pose if they'd had a nut like me around, he might have scraped up a 3 DOS-based system used Reflection/2 or /4 for DOS...a  
 NAAAHHH...   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 07:28:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium3 Message-ID: <g+nylZMTt$UN@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:n   > M > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?   D    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console2    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:01:33 -0500h1 From: David Michaels <michaedi@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu>e2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium1 Message-ID: <3E4BA53D.6F452E7C@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu>A   Bob Koehler wrote: > Y > In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:o >  > > O > > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console?d > F >    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console4 >    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.   Hi  D Why are they even using a console ? Doesn't the Itanium have a videoA card ? Seems like they could have plugged a monitor straight into  it.....m  C Sorry if this sounds dumb....I just don't see the purpose of laptopE     David Michaels david.michaels@uc.eduu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:00:16 -0500gA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>s2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium. Message-ID: <3e4bc111$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageh) news:3E4AAA6A.608081E2@vl.videotron.ca...  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >w, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > > E > >         http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316s >nI > Horror ! The thing booted with a microsoft windows used as console. HOW  DARE > YOU !) > F > And besides, how do we know the output wasn't faked ? It should have booted- > from an original VT220 to be authentic. :-)  >wF > Also, the directory command is incomplete since it does not show the currentd2 > directory prior to displaying the list of files. >l >  > A few comments:- >-J > It should not be "OpenVMS (TM) Itanium Operating System".  Since Itanium is aI > the current brand name for the current generation of IA64, it should bet VMSr > (IA64) on the message. >N  F Actually, I believe you are wrong here.  IA64 is discouraged.  ItaniumB Family Processor is how the chips are described.  But we are stillK struggling to figure out what we use.  We use OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha E today, but we can't use OpenVMS Itanium - so it may be something like ' OpenVMS for Itanium or some such thing.   + Of course, *I* like iVMS (the i is silent).n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:57:27 -0500fA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> 2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium, Message-ID: <3e4bc068_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A1B62E.594503D5@SendSpamHere.ORG...@ > In article <3e4a98cd_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge"1 <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:f > >{...snip...}gH > >Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotE > >to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to myl chagrin)G > >doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So mostl peopleK > >choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminal  >m > Not everyone!t >b  > Everyone in VMS engineering does, unless they flat out refuse.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:16:05 -0500i From: norm.raphael@metso.com2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium? Message-ID: <OFB0CB97C7.383F75B4-ON85256CCC.005946D7@metso.com>y  . How about "Industry-Standard OpenVMS"   ;-)  ?    E From:  "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> oni        02/13/2003 11:00 AM  # Please respond to "Fred Kleinsorge"e0        <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:l  5 Subject:    Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itaniums      = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message-) news:3E4AAA6A.608081E2@vl.videotron.ca...U > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > >?, > > The Register (to give credit) points to: > >2E > >         http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316a >nI > Horror ! The thing booted with a microsoft windows used as console. HOWn DARE > YOU !e >sF > And besides, how do we know the output wasn't faked ? It should have booted- > from an original VT220 to be authentic. :-)h >iF > Also, the directory command is incomplete since it does not show the currentt2 > directory prior to displaying the list of files. >- >  > A few comments:  >3J > It should not be "OpenVMS (TM) Itanium Operating System".  Since Itanium is aI > the current brand name for the current generation of IA64, it should ber VMSi > (IA64) on the message. >   F Actually, I believe you are wrong here.  IA64 is discouraged.  ItaniumB Family Processor is how the chips are described.  But we are stillK struggling to figure out what we use.  We use OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS AlphayE today, but we can't use OpenVMS Itanium - so it may be something liker' OpenVMS for Itanium or some such thing.n  + Of course, *I* like iVMS (the i is silent).w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:04:20 -0500tA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>s2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium, Message-ID: <3e4bc205_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  > "David Michaels" <michaedi@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu> wrote in message+ news:3E4BA53D.6F452E7C@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu...e > Bob Koehler wrote: > >lB > > In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > >o > > > H > > > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console? > > H > >    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console6 > >    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology. >0 > Hi >2F > Why are they even using a console ? Doesn't the Itanium have a videoC > card ? Seems like they could have plugged a monitor straight intom	 > it.....  >iE > Sorry if this sounds dumb....I just don't see the purpose of laptopm >a  5 Apparently you've never done O/S debug on a platform.   K The simplest form of console is a serial port.  A couple registers.  Really> simple.a  B VGA output is also fairly simple.  I've got lots of code for that.  H Input is a pain to some degree.  The PS2 interface is simple, but you doI need to do translation.  But the new legacy free implementations (i.e. no0? ISA and junk IO) use USB for input.  A much more complex dance.   G So.  You start simple with serial, and you work your way up to complex.    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2003 17:28:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium6 Message-ID: <b2gkkc$1c3emp$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ' In article <3E4B0BF1.B6DB8CA6@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > John Vottero wrote:F >> 0= >> "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message_0 >> news:LgMvs0z22BLo@eisner.encompasserve.org...- >> > The Register (to give credit) points to:p >> >> >> > http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316 >> >B >> > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on ItaniumE >> > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY % >> > image and the bootstrap itself).h >> tN >> Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console? > I > I s'pose if they'd had a nut like me around, he might have scraped up a 5 > DOS-based system used Reflection/2 or /4 for DOS...r >  > NAAAHHH...  = Hmmmm.  They could have called me.  I could have loaned them: 	   A VT100w	   A VT340    A VXT2000+   An HP 700/RX  I any of which would have been better than Windows or DOS, for that matter.n   bill  r   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2003 17:30:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium6 Message-ID: <b2gknr$1c3emp$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  1 In article <3E4BA53D.6F452E7C@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu>, 4 	David Michaels <michaedi@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> CZ >> In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: >> n >> >P >> > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console? >>  G >>    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console 5 >>    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.  >  > Hi > F > Why are they even using a console ? Doesn't the Itanium have a videoC > card ? Seems like they could have plugged a monitor straight intoe	 > it.....e > E > Sorry if this sounds dumb....I just don't see the purpose of laptopu >   B Off the top of my head, I figure it was easier to support a serial) console than any built in video hardware.t   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:37:50 -0800i$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>2 Subject: RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium0 Message-ID: <01C2D343.99022780@sulfer.icius.com>  H I'm using eXcursion, and have been doing so for years. I'd say the fontsE are nicer than a VT, much nicer than any terminal emulator I've used, B but not as good as the Windows fonts. There doesn't seem to be anyG anti-aliasing going on, so there is a slight "dottyness" to them. TherenF is an annoying tendancy to "lose" the right hand edge of the rightmost8 characters in the editor sometimes, but it's survivable.  G The few times I've used Reflection X I've found the fonts to be similaruG quality (which is understandable) but not as extensive. I'd get garbage. when using certain renditions.   Shanee   -----Original Message-----) From: GreyCloud [mailto:cumulus@mist.com]n* Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:52 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComE2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium     Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > >t@ > > I was wondering... does anybody have a screenshot of OpenVMS > > in a GUI mode??V > G > Presumably starting DECWindows and TCP/IP to get xdm running is a fewi; > steps on from getting VMS to run a directory command :-).  > ; > > I can't imagine having to use Windows as a front end toe > > OpenVMS. > 1 > Console issues have been discussed here before.d  < I already am using puTTY to communicate with an old 4000.  I8 just can't imagine doing it GUI style with a PC with X. ! Seems like a waste at this point.n9 I've never seen DECWindows in person and was wondering ifm9 the fonts are clean or jagged like all the UNIX CDEs I'vel seen.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:35:13 -0500a& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium/ Message-ID: <YMQ2a.169$x94.78@news.cpqcorp.net>Y  G Many reasons exist for using the laptops with the serial lines instead   of a 'dumb terminal'.f  A 1) You can scroll backwards to see pages and pages of debug info.   C 2) You can cut-n-paste into some email message to send to somebody.i  F 3) You can use the VGA output from the laptop to drive a projector to 9 give demos of the boot sequence to a large room of people          -- h John Reagani' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaders Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:40:32 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>2 Subject: RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium0 Message-ID: <01C2D343.F73FAC50@sulfer.icius.com>  G They only just got a clean DIR, I'd be very surprised if they'd got theh/ video card drivers working. First things first.-   Shanea   -----Original Message-----8 From: David Michaels [mailto:michaedi@ucrwcu.rwc.uc.edu]) Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:02 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com02 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium     Bob Koehler wrote: > @ > In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: >  > >cF > > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for a console? > F >    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console4 >    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.   Hi  D Why are they even using a console ? Doesn't the Itanium have a videoA card ? Seems like they could have plugged a monitor straight into7 it.....   C Sorry if this sounds dumb....I just don't see the purpose of laptops     David Michaels david.michaels@uc.edu>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:35:35 -08003" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium( Message-ID: <3E4BE577.9C487392@mist.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote: > = > > I've never seen DECWindows in person and was wondering ifh= > > the fonts are clean or jagged like all the UNIX CDEs I'ver	 > > seen.s > G > They look clean to me, certainly cleaner than the horrible mess linux  > comes with by default. >   < Thanks.  All I needed to know.  Solaris x86 fonts are jagged and messy, just like Linux.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:00:06 +0000a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium) Message-ID: <3E4B88C6.623348D2@127.0.0.1>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > * > The Register (to give credit) points to: > C >         http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316  > ? > where Terry Shannon has photographs of VMS booting on Itanium B > (with lots of extra debugging progress messages in the DIRECTORY" > image and the bootstrap itself).   Hey!  F That's my picture of Mark with the boot from the user group event last May.  D I'm flattered! It is getting to be a well travelled and photographed boot.a  9 Are there any more star appearances we should know about?y --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese nclews at csc dot coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:58:43 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>oD Subject: Re: Poor disk i/o performance on DS10L (scsi) OpenVMS 7.3-1= Message-ID: <TcB2a.65524$AQ3.1085009@twister.tampabay.rr.com>b  K What kind of disks and controllers does your DS10 have?  I have a DS10 with:L IDE drives, and they are slow as molasses.  Another DS10 with SCSI drives is MUCH better.  ? "Saku Setala" <setala@phys-staff7.kolumbus.fi> wrote in messageo+ news:b2e19r$2e4$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...> > Hello, > 5 > I have the feeling that the disk i/o is quite slow.i >t< > Now, how can I verify this? Are there any tools to measure; > the read/write performance, and any results where I couldT
 > compare to?n >a	 > Thanks.y >n > --Saku > --
 > Saku Setle > System Planning Managera+ > Network Services, Elisa Internet Oy (LTD)S >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:16:42 -0600y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>m. Subject: Re: Print using Different Input Trays& Message-ID: <3E4B0E1A.4C164A7@fsi.net>   Mark Awad wrote: >  > Hello Allr > A > I believe you can print to different input paper trays on an HPh: > LaserJet 5si using the PRINT /PARAMETER=<stuff> command.  , If you're using DCPS, yes, that may be true.  H Otherwise, you'll have to determine the appropriate escape sequence, setE that up in a devctl module, match it up to a form, and handle it thate way...  ! ...or use PRINT/SETUP=(module(s))    -- l David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:32:52 GMTU( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>J Subject: Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS= Message-ID: <72s2a.86911$Ec4.76271@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>n  B David Dachtera alluder to this earlier, so I decided to step in...  G There seem to be a lot of stories about the clueless using RP drives as K stepladders. At my first job (ca 1980) se had one of those, however nothinggK bad happened. We also had a clueless operator, who upon encountering errors-H on a drive that had crashed unbeknownst to him (but later knownst to us)L moved the pack to two other drives, encountering errors all the way. He thenL proceeded to try other packs and other drives. When the dust settled, we hadC four dead drives, and three dead packs. He subsequently found otherc
 employment...m  L Then there was the time that the CE had scheduled time to replace some headsG that the error log was showing as weak. We moved some critical files toaI another drive, and shut down the drive in question. The CE took the cover H from the massbuss enclosure and set it on top of the drive control panelI (memory refresher: the RP06 looked like a washing machine. The top of thepJ control panel was narrow, and tilted down towards the back). This last bitI is important, as you'll see later. He carefully removed each good head tohK get to the bad one(s), and delicately laid it in the massbuss cover. He got G about a dozen of them out, when the other drive (which was mechanicallysF connected to the one he was working on) did a big seek. This upset theG massbuss cover, which was holding the heads. Gravity took over, and theo" entire mess ended up on the floor.  I On the way out, he dropped the alignment pack. Gravity was not his friend  that day...d   -- Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. Phone: 847-730-3193c Fax:      847-730-3194 Cell:      847-370-3071i Text:     melevy@vtext.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:02:05 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e$ Subject: Re: The importance of ISV'sH Message-ID: <1Lx2a.34665$Qf1.29593@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> wrote in messagea) news:v4l247t0ihp38a@corp.supernews.com...eE > I got a reply from the VMS marketing mgr on this issue and promised  to post  > it.  Consider this the post. >oD > He asked to have the info sent to him and he'd have his ISV person	 look into2 > it.  John? >  > --	 > Dave...B    C I appreciate the effort Dave, but this one is a lost cause. The endeD customer is up against tight deadlines and is working frantically toF get their upgraded service offering into production for their clients.; Had the ISV product been available for VMS or Tru64 or even E Linux/Alpha on a CD and "all" that had to be done was install it/tuneyD it on an Alpha, create the db schema, copy the data and run in orderC to test, then there was a chance - but not when the product doesn'tdD exist and the ISV has shown no interest in 'bellying up to the bar'.E That's a job for HP to deal with, not me. I'm not getting my customerr involved in this battle.  A California is lovely this time of year compared to New Hampshire.nF Maybe VMS Marketing ought to do a road-trip and speak to leading ISV's? there that don't currently have VMS products and make the value D proposition to them. And while they are there they can meet existingF customer, former customer, and new prospects and follow the guidelines below.    C I think that the VMS marketing people have to look long and hard inoF the mirror each and every day and ask themselves some tough questions:  E 1) Am I doing everything in my power, including end-runs, to overcomei@ any HP-internal obstacles (people and funding) to making VMS the@ highest profile and most profitable (in absolute dollars) of any product line HP offers?t  F 2) Do I have a compelling story to tell new prospective customers each day? If not, why not?   = 3) How many more new customers are we going to contact today?m  B 4) Am I doing everything I can to win their business? If not, it'sC time to go the extra mile to get a satisfied new customer on-board.r  E 5) What have I done for our existing customers yesterday to keep themeB on-board and happy? What am I going to do for them today? How am ID going to PROVE to them that VMS on Alpha is a better proposition for* their business than any other alternative?  A 6) What am I going to do to ensure that the broadest range of ISVoE products (breadth and depth, and most especially the leaders in their  fields) exists on VMS?   That's just for starters.,   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:11:18 GMTa# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ( Subject: Re: The importance of marketingK Message-ID: <aCs2a.654460$F2h1.192061@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>.  B Forgot to mention that Sun had a double-page ad (full pages in theE middle of the business section) for their new servers in my newspaperg local yesterday.  F I guess I just must have somehow overlooked the corresponding ads thatD HP put in the same newspaper when the new Alpha's were launched last month.    F Sun has this really funny concept that you can actually keep customers? your customers by reinforcing their decision that they made theg@ correct technology choice. They also seem to understand that theD people who made the original decision may have left the organization/ and that their replacements also need stroking.e  ? Sun also seems to believe that you can sell to new customers byg= letting them know how feature-packed and powerful the new SunnE hardware/software *appears* to be and how it's supposed to help solve B their business needs. Of course that task is made much easier when> there is ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, NICHTS public counter value-thesis7 presented by what is supposed to be a major competitor.d  @ Sun ought to revive that old ad campaign of Paine Webber, with a. twist....."Thank you HP, for not advertising."   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Feb 2003 14:44:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)l( Subject: Re: The importance of marketing3 Message-ID: <36a5+dpuUZlv@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  p In article <bf9485d6.0302121228.3fd8946e@posting.google.com>, philj@softwarepartners.com (Phil Jamieson) writes: >> pI >> Many people/customers will not be buying SAP, but they will be reading ) >> eWeek and other similar publications, t > @ > Let's say a once-big DEC ISV wanted to market its flagship VMSH > products again (yep, we're here, supporting our VMS products all theseA > years), to VMS people of the current generation...what ARE theynA > reading nowadays (that's affordable for advertisers)?  Anybody?e  0 One thing that seems affordable is described at:  2 	http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Sponsorship  G and if the proposed currency is rendered to them, readership should gett better than whatever it is now.x  D That said, I exchanged email with the operator today and he admittedF that the cited page has certain gaps in clarity but that he has gotten8 a good number of comments and will be revising the text.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:43:45 GMTy4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>% Subject: Re: UCX XDM, Linux vncserver,0 Message-ID: <3E4A6A2A.2E71BAC5@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote:o > H > I have UCX (mumble TCPIP) 5.1 installed (under VMS 7.3), which says itM > contains XDM.  The service is enabled, and there's a process running called 5 > TCPIP$XDM_1 (used 0.43 seconds of CPU in 165 days).  > I > I'm trying to get a VMS login screen on a vncserver (Xvnc) running on aL > Linux box. > 
 > Results: > ; > % vncserver -query unix-host            Unix login screenw; > % vncserver -broadcast                  Unix login screen > > % vncserver -indirect unix-host         menu of Unix systems6 > % vncserver -query vms-host             empty screen  A If you are happy to disable xdm security (such as it is) then tryn   vncserver -ac -query vms-host   A which will at least prove you have a security issue if it works. oC Whether or not you decide to subsequently tackle the security issue 
 is up to you.    regards,   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:16:21 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG% Subject: Re: VMS @25 CD now availables0 Message-ID: <00A1B608.471CAB6E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3e4a5482$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Larry" <LarryFuller@sprynet.com> writes:7 >The next screensaver is available now! Check it out at / >www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/index.htmln >t >Larry  M Hey, they put .MPGs up there...  Looks like it does pay to bitch and moan! :P  Thanks folks...s --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMD            15   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:26:47 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: VMS @25 CD now availables) Message-ID: <3E4B64D7.386DA363@127.0.0.1>    Larry wrote: > 8 > The next screensaver is available now! Check it out at0 > www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/index.html   Hey! I can put my shades away!  F VAXman's right, it does pay to have a moan, people listen and respond,
 thanks again!o   -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:33:31 -0500M& From: "Bob  Lail" <robert.lail@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: What kind of connector does KZPBA-CC have?m, Message-ID: <3e4aa280$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  % All  KZBPA-** have the HD68 connector,   \Bob   -- Robert Laila Solution Architect  Network & Service Provider Sales Hewlett-Packard Company-$ 110 Spit Brook Road, Nashua NH 02062    0 EMail: SRobert.Lail@hp.com   Phone: 603.884.71613 ( S added for Spammers remove before sending email)D  / "Alfred Falk" <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote in messagee2 news:Xns93206FDB55144falkarcabca@205.233.108.180.. .lH > I am trying to add components to my VMS systems, but find HP's websiteL > extremely frustrating.  I have, after many hours, determined that I need aK > KZPBA-CB PCI SCSI adapter.  However I find no description of this producttK > beyond compatibility info (which _is_ important, of course).  I assume it H > has a bulkhead connecter, either VHDCI or 80-pin HD.  Does anyone here
 > know which?- >A > --B > ----------------------------------------------------------------B >   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.caB > R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185- >   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road@3 >                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadat! > http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E46" > http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:32:39 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>7 Subject: Re: What kind of connector does KZPBA-CC have?e9 Message-ID: <Xns9321756E9D398falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>1   [posted and mailed]   $ VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> wrote inD news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BC8@rlghncst964.usps.gov: 	 > Alfred:t > - > This says it's a 68HD Female, Differential.e  # Thank you.  I appreciate your help.    /Alfred    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca e@ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Roadi1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canadat http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4u  http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2003 10:41:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Where to find Oracle RDB informationm3 Message-ID: <mFoS4eymDax0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <_9O2a.152$aT3.20@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> writes:W3 > From: Bill Gettys [mailto:Bill.Gettys@Oracle.com]p > , > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:39 PM > 
 >  Sure!!!!!!' >  > Take a look at our web site: >  > http://www.oracle.com/rdb/  . That URL does not work from a secured browser.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:36:23 -0700t+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 1 Subject: Re: Where to find Oracle RDB informatione' Message-ID: <3E4BD797.8040900@MMaz.com>i   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  h >In article <_9O2a.152$aT3.20@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> writes: >    > 3 >>From: Bill Gettys [mailto:Bill.Gettys@Oracle.com]> >>, >>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:39 PM >>
 >> Sure!!!!!!4 >> >>Take a look at our web site: >> >>http://www.oracle.com/rdb/ >>     >> >t/ >That URL does not work from a secured browser.a >  s >eG Javascript is NOT insecure, Java and ActiveX yes, but not Jacascript!  EI Don't want to believe that, then spend some time investigating it but in  E every CERT advisory, the key component was NOT Javascript but rather g> that the applications were running Microcrap IE or Outloose...   Barryu   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.088 ************************