0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 90      Contents:? Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731 ? Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 3955731  Re: Cluster Info from DCL  Re: Cluster Info from DCL * Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS?6 Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily7 Re: Graphics support on VMS, was RE: EV7, ES47 question 7 Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp ) Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration ) Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration ( Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?( Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection?M RE: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" M Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" M Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" M Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" M Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" P RE: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" foP Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" fo Re: OpenVMS Boot press releaseP RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium ) Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium $ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section$ Re: Read/Write from a global section' Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + RE: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server + Re: Restore of System to a different Server A Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS & Re: SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win32 Single process debugging stupid STR$LEFT question Re: stupid STR$LEFT question Re: stupid STR$LEFT question Re: stupid STR$LEFT question) SuSE beats HP-UX, Solaris .... in Germany P Re: Whatever happened to ... "Crashless Windows", and [OT] Solar Toxic Waste Pro( Re: Where to find Oracle RDB information( Re: Where to find Oracle RDB information  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 10:19:05 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>H Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557315 Message-ID: <20030214101905.5288.qmail@gacracker.org>   F On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:B >Re: not supporting browsers that represent less than X% of usage. > N >If Usage is measured with a javascript tricks and pony show, then obvioulsly,F >they will only record browsers for which they have written compatible >javascript for. > L >They need to look at the WEB SERVER LOGS to see the types of browsers used.   Quite.  H I've found a few sites that wouldn't display in MSIE when Javascript was8 disabled, but actually worked after a fashion with Lynx.  J Anyway, if Google can provide a highly sophisticated search engine in suchE a way that you can use it with a text-only browser, why can't others?   I I know it probably doesn't mean anything to the S&M (Sales and Marketing) I people, but I would have thought that creating a site where you can use a K W3C compliance logo would garner respect from the more technical segment of  the target audience.     Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:17:28 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGH Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557310 Message-ID: <00A1B781.9EA31E22@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E4C30D0.938BED52@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Shane Smith wrote:  >>  I >> That looks like an entry for the obfuscated c contest. Care to give an = >> English description of the bits that raised your eyebrows?  > J >It only looks for a specific list of browsers. So any browser not in that
 >list, well..   3 ... based upon our statistical sample space of 1...  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:09:14 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: (Fwd) RE: User Comments on site feedback Incident # 39557313 Message-ID: <cB$IAqREVt9k@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <20030214101905.5288.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > L > Anyway, if Google can provide a highly sophisticated search engine in suchG > a way that you can use it with a text-only browser, why can't others?   L    Some people write web pages.  Others use Frontpage (a Microslop product).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:51:19 +0100 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>" Subject: Re: Cluster Info from DCL5 Message-ID: <b2is8n$1ctf4b$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: ? >> "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> wrote  >>> David J. Dachtera wrote:" >>>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:H >>>>> I tried this and had to add a line to get the leading space out of> >>>>> the date-time string for the first nine days of a month. >>>>  E >>>> Actually, I screwed up and posted an old version. I don't have a F >>>> cluster at home, so I don't have my current fixes here. I'll sendH >>>> the good one to myself from work and post it here over the weekend. >>>>  B >>>> I didn't use the VERSION keyword because it's not among thoseF >>>> listed as working for nodes other than the local node. I'll check! >>>> that out at work when I can.  >>> = >>> Indeed, VERSION only works on the local node. So, back to  >>> NODE_SWVERS.   >>  F >> Strange.  I am running VAX V7.2, Alpha V7.2-2 and VERSION works for >> me on non-local nodes.  >>  % >> Perhaps more research is in order.  > E > I tried it on an Alpha V6.2, clustered with a VAX V6.2 and an Alpha A > V7.2 (yeah, I know...). Will run it again tomorrow on the other  > machines.     This definitely is a V7 feature:  
 AXPSW> @shclu   >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ; VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX  (VAXstation 4000-90) B AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)J AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha V6.2-1H3 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)  
 VAXSW> @shclu   >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ? VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX V6.2 (VAXstation 4000-90) B AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)B AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)   AXPSW2> @shclu  >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ? VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX V6.2 (VAXstation 4000-90) J AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha V7.2-1H1 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)J AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha V6.2-1H3 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)    F BTW: On AXPSW2, a $HELP LEX F$GETSYI shows VERSION in the cluster-wide	 category.      cu,    Martin   --  I One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmer 7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:48:05 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com" Subject: Re: Cluster Info from DCL? Message-ID: <OF5EFA58A3.40EB2A1D-ON85256CCD.00511BCF@metso.com>    Thanks, Martin.   J So the procedure should test the second character of NODE_SWVERS and if it is 7 or # higher then subsitute VERSION, yes?    -Norm   K From:  "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> on 02/14/2003         08:51 AM   H Please respond to "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   % Subject:    Re: Cluster Info from DCL      Martin Vorlaender wrote: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: ? >> "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> wrote  >>> David J. Dachtera wrote:" >>>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:H >>>>> I tried this and had to add a line to get the leading space out of> >>>>> the date-time string for the first nine days of a month. >>>>E >>>> Actually, I screwed up and posted an old version. I don't have a F >>>> cluster at home, so I don't have my current fixes here. I'll sendH >>>> the good one to myself from work and post it here over the weekend. >>>>B >>>> I didn't use the VERSION keyword because it's not among thoseF >>>> listed as working for nodes other than the local node. I'll check! >>>> that out at work when I can.  >>> = >>> Indeed, VERSION only works on the local node. So, back to  >>> NODE_SWVERS. >>F >> Strange.  I am running VAX V7.2, Alpha V7.2-2 and VERSION works for >> me on non-local nodes.  >>% >> Perhaps more research is in order.  > E > I tried it on an Alpha V6.2, clustered with a VAX V6.2 and an Alpha A > V7.2 (yeah, I know...). Will run it again tomorrow on the other  > machines.     This definitely is a V7 feature:  
 AXPSW> @shclu   >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ; VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX  (VAXstation 4000-90) B AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)J AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha V6.2-1H3 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)  
 VAXSW> @shclu   >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ? VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX V6.2 (VAXstation 4000-90) B AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)B AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha  (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)   AXPSW2> @shclu  >  OpenVMS Cluster founded on Monday, 30-DEC-2002 at 15:58:54.56@  by System Id 000004C8; Membership: 3, Total Votes: 4, Quorum: 3  ? VAXSW    00000464 00010008 - VMS  VAX V6.2 (VAXstation 4000-90) J AXPSW2   000004CA 00010009 - VMS  Alpha V7.2-1H1 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/400)J AXPSW    000004C8 0001000A - VMS  Alpha V6.2-1H3 (AlphaServer 1000A 5/300)    F BTW: On AXPSW2, a $HELP LEX F$GETSYI shows VERSION in the cluster-wide	 category.      cu,    Martin   --I One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmer 7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:13:28 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>3 Subject: Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS? @ Message-ID: <20030214181328.22634.qmail@web20201.mail.yahoo.com>   Well  J Are the HP network cards (hardware in general) working in Alphaservers ???   Regards    FC  ) --- Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote: B > Having wrestled with it for a chunk of the day, I've just had toI > conclude that my DE205 network card is either dead or not recognised by I > my Alpha Server 1000A. It's an EISA, and I now hate EISA with a passion H > you can only dream of. The ECU keeps telling me it's installed the ^#$H > thing, then it's missing when the console goes looking for it at boot.2 > I'm walking away before I put a boot through it. > I > Can anyone recommend an over-the-counter PCI network card I have a good F > chance of finding in Fry's tonight that will work under VMS 7.3-1 in= > this box? A D-Link maybe, a Linksys or something like that?  >  > Shane  > @ >  #####   -----------------------------------------------------A > #-O-O-# | Arthur: "It's times like this I wish I'd listened   | A > #  L  # | to what my Mother used to say." Ford: Why, what did | A >  #===#  | she say?" Arthur: "I don't know, I didn't listen."  | @ >   ###    ----------------------------------------------------- >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 06:55:58 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org? Subject: Re: Granting privileges to non-priv users, temporarily 3 Message-ID: <brVtT6+mDo$8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <qZ4ZY$fJuBiU@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: W > In article <3E4C2EDE.31F56E2A@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  > , >> Protected Subsystems? How does that work? > A > Conceptually it is like installing an image with an identifier, B > except that the system manager does not need to be involved when8 > it comes time to replace the image with a new version.  I You have to set a flag on the disk volume to enable protected subsystems. F It is pre-enabled on the system disk by default if I recall correctly.  G This requirement is there to prevent images on untrustworthy disks from   being used to grant identifiers.  A Then you have to create a subsystem identifier.  It's an ordinary D rights identifier with /ATTRIBUTES=SUBSYSTEM.  Or you can just apply2 the subsystem attribute to an existing identifier.  C Then you have to put an subsystem ACE that calls out the identifier B in question on the image in question.  I don't remember the syntax1 and I'm working from 3 year old memory right now.   D I don't remember if there's any requirement that the image be linkedA with /NOTRACE.  If you're paranoid, it would be a wise precaution  anyway.   E That's it.  Now whenever someone runs that image, the image activator C automagically grants the identifier to their process.  And when the - image runs down, it is automatically revoked.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:36:44 GMT 0 From: Donald McCabe <donald.p.mccabe@boeing.com>@ Subject: Re: Graphics support on VMS, was RE: EV7, ES47 question) Message-ID: <3E4CF0EC.3040700@boeing.com>    I've been desparate to upgrade my Powerstorm 350's to the ATI 7500 PCI on our DS10's and ES20's (all PCI only). The  ATI online [ ordering allows you to get to find out that the ATI 7500 PCI is out of stock but costs $79.      Fred Kleinsorge wrote:H > Cool.  I'm sure someone will buy one and try it once we relase the SW.L > AFAIK, we haven't even gotten production cards yet, since the initial ones( > had a problem with hot-swap PCI slots. >  > 6 > "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message) > news:31JAN200311590098@gerg.tamu.edu...  > @ >>In article <3e3ab042_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" > 5 > <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes...  >  >>} ; >>}"Sean O'Banion" <seanobanion@attbi.com> wrote in message : >>}news:f883d5a4.0301310831.1df1133b@posting.google.com...J >>}> > Yes.  ATI is more-or-less making a PCI version of the 7500 just for >  > us > K >>}> > (I think because we're the only ones who asked).  The plan is for it  >  > to > K >>}> > be supported anywhere a VX1 can be plugged in - which is pretty much J >>}> > all the EV6 platforms.  We are using the PCI version for debug, and >  > are  > B >>}> > using XP1000's, DS10's, DS20's, ES45's, and Marvel systems. >>}> >F >>}> > Note:  We may or may not "support" the XP1000 - or at least notH >>}> > support multi-head on it - it needs new firmware that hasn't been >  > done.  >  >>}>J >>}> Does this mean that there is a "special" version of the 7500 for VMS?. >>}> Or can I use the $76 one that Amazon has? >>}> >>} J >>}As far as I know, the 7500 is only available in an AGP version.  I have >  > to > F >>If you go to the ATI web site (www.atitech.ca) you'll find that theyG >>have a PCI version (you can even buy one from their online store - at G >>least, I assume you can: I couldn't get to their online store page as F >>it didn't like Netscape 303's SSL options due to insufficient bits). >>L >>See, for example, the second line in the system specifications section of: >>9 >>http://mirror.ati.com/products/pc/radeon7500/specs.html  >>G >>(which doesn't mention the Itanium, BTW). It is also mentioned in the ' >>monitor support section on that page.  >>
 >>--- Carl >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 10:18:53 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) @ Subject: Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302141018.49c4fd9@posting.google.com>  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E4C5C4B.6609CAB8@fsi.net>...G > Mention of OpenVMS is conspicuous by its absence on the Interex event 3 > site. Look at the submissions pages for examples.   F In topic 601 of the Symposia_Public notes conference on Encompasserve,: we're told that a public announcement is expected shortly.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:26:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration3 Message-ID: <XY65FAlhdgpr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <b2htd101fgt@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: ' > Joe Kreuzer <jk@igm-group.com> wrote: @ >> I want to get a license for the OpenVMS Hobbyist version from >> Montegar.? >> I am using Charon VAX-emulator on a windows PC. I can select F >> CHARON-VAX as CPU type at the registration form but from where do I  >> get the CPU serial number ??? > K > Does this mean that there is once again a Hobbyist Version of Charon VAX?   (    Yep.  Downloaded it myself last week.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:05:41 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>2 Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS License registration* Message-ID: <00A1B7DC.26151458.6@decus.de>  > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  > > In article <b2htd101fgt@enews1.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"$ <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:) > > Joe Kreuzer <jk@igm-group.com> wrote: B > >> I want to get a license for the OpenVMS Hobbyist version from > >> Montegar.A > >> I am using Charon VAX-emulator on a windows PC. I can select H > >> CHARON-VAX as CPU type at the registration form but from where do I" > >> get the CPU serial number ??? > > M > > Does this mean that there is once again a Hobbyist Version of Charon VAX?  > * >    Yep.  Downloaded it myself last week.  B See http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/index.htm for details. (IA hadn't looked there for quite a while.) It is called "PicoVAX for E Windows", the file is of the type "MSI" ("Windows Installer Package") ? and obviously requires Win2k. I don't know about the (official) @ license conditions for this emulator product of course but it is" called a "free hobbyist emulator".   Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:20:06 -0700 ) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> 1 Subject: Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection? 8 Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.14.14.20.06.858509@hotmail.com>  : On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:58:58 -0800, Alan E. Feldman wrote:  . > "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com> wrote in >> Help! >>  J >> Been trying to find out just HOW do shut off the Intursion Detection inJ >> OpenVMS...this machine is internal only, so I don't see a big reason toJ >> have this functioning.  Any clue as to where to look for this?  Thanks! >>   >> James > E > Just curious: Why is this a problem? Does it normally take you more  > than 5 attempts to log in? >  > Dislcaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman   J Hehe...takes me 1 try usually, takes some of my users up to 10 before theyG figure out they've forgotten their password....*sigh*...a net admin job ! takes SUCH patience sometimes ;-)    James    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:49:29 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: How to shut off Intrusion Detection? / Message-ID: <3E4D0E7E.94374E4@blueyonder.co.uk>    DigiDemon wrote:   L > Hehe...takes me 1 try usually, takes some of my users up to 10 before theyI > figure out they've forgotten their password....*sigh*...a net admin job # > takes SUCH patience sometimes ;-)  >   J Of course, the BOFH approach is to disable the account after 5 unsucessfulJ attempts (or whatever, the unix systems the last place I worked it was 3),L and require the user to submit a password reset request through appropriate I channels to reactivate their account :-). They will either remember their M passwords better or write them on post-its next to their terminal. I actually L prefer the VMS behaviour, it seems unix has no equivalenent to the intrusion timeout features.   B How many tims do they have to enter their PIN at the cash machine?  	 regards,   > James    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:14:14 -0500 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> V Subject: RE: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it": Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDEEADCMAA.dallen@nist.gov>   >  > Baby Peanut wrote:, > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7735 > >  > > Shifts Linux work to Power4  > > 4 > > By Egan Orion: Wednesday 12 February 2003, 07:11 > > E > > BIG BLUE has discontinued efforts to adapt Linux for the Itanium, E > > according to IDG. IBM spokesman Ron Faveli said "IBM doesn't have H > > anyone dedicated to working with Linux on Itanium." Favali proceededE > > to explain, "Our view right now is that Itanium is like a science * > > project. There's not a market for it." >   L 	FWIW, that statement would have been just as true for Linux 2-3 years ago.    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2003 14:53:05 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)V Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it"6 Message-ID: <b2ivsg$1cj75j$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <3e4c56ef$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net>,  	rmk@rmkhome.com writes:( > Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> wrote: > L >> As the article says, that makes sense- there are others working on Linux H >> on Itanium, while Blue is going to have to lead the port to Power 4- I >> and, as the article also says, it makes more sense for IBM to port to  1 >> their own 64-bit platform than someone else's.  > G > I see that SuSe Linux for Itanium goes from $1000 for 1 proc to $1959 1 > for 4 procs, and no downloadable free binaries.   C I suppose that's cause you have to recoup all your R&D on the first E sale as the GPL (which covers pretty much everything Linux) lets that E first customer give it away to anybody else who wants it.  Not a very  attractive business model.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:07:01 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>V Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it"+ Message-ID: <b2it66$v94@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   P <rmk@rmkhome.com> wrote in message news:3e4c56ef$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net...  G > I see that SuSe Linux for Itanium goes from $1000 for 1 proc to $1959 1 > for 4 procs, and no downloadable free binaries.   B SuSe seem to make more of their money up front than other distros.A That says more about SuSe than it does IA64. So, you can only get A Caldera, Debian, SuSe, Redhat and Turbolinux versions at present.  Looks pretty dead to me.  M > I can tell you this. NetBSD runs on more platforms than any other platform, $ > and new ports are always underway.  A So, there is work going on on the PDP-10 port but not on Itanium. 3 Clearly 36-bit computing is the wave of the future.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 10:28:24 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) V Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it"3 Message-ID: <Fo0fuWu1uvrR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   > In article <OoKcnV7QOYxI_dGjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metroca  st.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message   > J > Since, of course, POWER4+ processors *already* out-perform Itanic2s (andN > even POWER4 was at no net performance disadvantage), the above clarifies theN > fact (which regular readers of L'Inq should already know) that Egan Orion isI > not exactly an expert on the relative merits of the two platforms:  his K > primary interest is Linux, hence his comments fail to address some of the 7 > more significant aspects of the article he refers to.  > M > In particular, not only is IBM now apparently comfortable making statements N > that marginalize Itanic, but industry analysts seem comfortable going along: > 	 > <quote>  > N > Illuminata's Haff agreed that the Itanium chip has proved to be a formidableK > competitor to Power and Sun Microsystems' UltraSPARC processors but added 9 > that he senses the industry cooling on Itanium overall.  > N > "I think the industry is starting to shift a bit around Itanium," Haff said.M > "Two years ago people looked at Itanium and thought it would be the natural M > order of things to have Intel as the 64-bit chip supplier. The fact is that J > Itanium is still basically an HPCC [high-performance computing clusters]L > play, so IBM is looking to go their own route if they can get just as much > market share with Power."  > 
 > </quote> > L > Gordon Haff is not exactly an anti-Itanic fanatic, by the way:  he was theL > author of the highly complimentary article about HP's McKinley zx1 chipset > last year. > N > There might be a parallel with political campaigns, where lots of early hypeL > results in a candidate 'peaking' too early and losing public interest (or,N > worse yet, being caught out on statements made sufficiently early that thereN > was time to prove them false) before the actual election occurs.  The ItanicK > juggernaut has been enough of a sluggernaut (both in appearance and in at L > least initial performance) that it may be starting to face a sea change inL > the perception of its aura of invincibility before there's really anything > actually invincible about it.  >  >   K         All good.  But the battle really hasn't even begun yet.  Give Intel D         2 or 3 more rounds of Itanium to turn the tables.  Here is a         hint of things to come:   3 http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0107sgirelea.html   K The entry-level Altix 3300 server starts at US$70,176 in the U.S. with four $ processors and 32G bytes of memory.            That is a sweet spot.     M         Now we can dig about and have a good pissy back and forth on pricing.   M         Here is IBM, one of their latest, we see that they list 64 GBytes of  *         RAM for a high-end box at $241000:  C http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result_detail.asp?id=102122701   E         From that same listing, an 8-way MCM at $275000.  That's not  ?         a reasonable comparison?  Okay, how about an 8-way box:   G http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/IBM/IBM6m1es_02012002.pdf            AIX - p660G         8way (2 4ways) listing for $74000, 64 GBytes of RAM at $229000. G         Much better on the CPU prices, but memory is very badly priced.   B         Back to Itanium, Unisys 16 processor Itanium, 32 GBytes of         memory at $43880:   I http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/Unisys/ES7000_021029_ES.pdf   F         So what is SGI actually charging per CPU for those Itaniums inF         their 4 processor box?  Well... it is a bundle, but they can'tE         be charging more than $8000 to come in at $70000 including 32 H         GBytes memory.  SGI's Altix with 64 CPUs lists for $1.2 million,F         with 0 memory that works out to $20000 per CPU.  Far less thanG         IBM's high-end CPU pricing  (8-ways for $275000 - see above and = 	note too that was a very recent TPC listing, not dredging up  	old info here).           From the Inquirer:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7454  %             $1300    $2250      $4226 & Merced     733/2M    733/4M     800/4M& McKinley   900/1.5M 1000/1.5M  1000/3M& Madison   1300/3M   1400/4M    1400/6M  8         Allowing OEMs to put together nice priced boxes.  G         Itanium servers at 1/2 list price of IBM's servers will make a  F         difference (counting memory of course).  It won't matter that          Power is 20% faster.  F         Now I grant you this, IBM slashes prices 50% across the board,D         it will make the battle more interesting.  Probably irritateJ         a whole bunch of customers that paid those inflated server prices.H         There is an analogy here.  There were folks paying a WHOLE bunchF         of money for "Enterprise" storage a few years ago.  Pricing inE         that space came down as we know and yes, their customers were N         not happy that they had recently paid inflated prices for "Enterprise"         storage.  I         We'll see if IBM will enjoy making a whole lot less money on AIX  D         hardware.  I don't see it happening, after all ... they have. 	to pay for that POWER R&D infrastructure ;-).  #                                 Rob     B Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  .                                 -- Neil Young    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:35:37 -0600 * From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>V Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it"/ Message-ID: <v4q6mrmcg68c9b@corp.supernews.com>   E How about ----  let Intel do what they think is best and IBM do same.   I Then let the market decide which is better.  Maybe, in the end, they both  will have their place.   -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  trouble. -----Mark Twain   . "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message4 news:JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDEEADCMAA.dallen@nist.gov... >  >  > >  > > Baby Peanut wrote:. > > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7735 > > > ! > > > Shifts Linux work to Power4  > > > 6 > > > By Egan Orion: Wednesday 12 February 2003, 07:11 > > > G > > > BIG BLUE has discontinued efforts to adapt Linux for the Itanium, G > > > according to IDG. IBM spokesman Ron Faveli said "IBM doesn't have J > > > anyone dedicated to working with Linux on Itanium." Favali proceededG > > > to explain, "Our view right now is that Itanium is like a science , > > > project. There's not a market for it." > >  > L > FWIW, that statement would have been just as true for Linux 2-3 years ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 05:40:45 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>NY Subject: RE: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" fo 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEKKGJAA.tom@kednos.com>m  E I think you misread, IBM is spending lots of money on Linux, just notn on Itanium.k   >-----Original Message-----e0 >From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]( >Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 1:11 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComH >Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a >market for it" for it" for it"n >  >a >Baby Peanut wrote:m >> e+ >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7735  >> i >> Shifts Linux work to Power4 >>  3 >> By Egan Orion: Wednesday 12 February 2003, 07:11  >> nD >> BIG BLUE has discontinued efforts to adapt Linux for the Itanium, >....n >aH >Why should IBM put effort into linux which isn't really seeing the hugeD >take-up predicted by the analysts, when they are just doing a "keep >customers happy" exercise?t > I >Remember, their work, of the people on the IBM payroll, are putting codetC >OUT into the open source pool, for what gain? No direct revenue isrE >possible, only the knock-on from being able to say to some client orn3 >other "yes we can support linux, here's our fees".  >cD >Meanwhile those same people on the same payroll could be working onE >putting code out into the open source pool, which has more chance ofrI >bringing in (indirect) revenue to the IBM coffers. This is slightly morea >like investment to me.n > E >These are hard times, and even IBM can't afford to throw money away.o >g >-- @ >Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences >nclews at csc dot com >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).VA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  ---W& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:10:44 +0000l( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" foe) Message-ID: <3E4CB294.B42C788F@127.0.0.1>f   Baby Peanut wrote: > * > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7735 >  > Shifts Linux work to Power4  > 2 > By Egan Orion: Wednesday 12 February 2003, 07:11 > C > BIG BLUE has discontinued efforts to adapt Linux for the Itanium,t ...e  G Why should IBM put effort into linux which isn't really seeing the huge C take-up predicted by the analysts, when they are just doing a "keepS customers happy" exercise?  H Remember, their work, of the people on the IBM payroll, are putting codeB OUT into the open source pool, for what gain? No direct revenue isD possible, only the knock-on from being able to say to some client or2 other "yes we can support linux, here's our fees".  C Meanwhile those same people on the same payroll could be working on-D putting code out into the open source pool, which has more chance ofH bringing in (indirect) revenue to the IBM coffers. This is slightly more like investment to me.  D These are hard times, and even IBM can't afford to throw money away.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:26:58 +0100 1 From: Franz-Josef Fornefeld <jo.fornefeld@gmx.de>l' Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot press release ( Message-ID: <b2icp2.290.1@jo.dyndns.org>   Sue Skonetski wrote:   > Folks, >h3 > We have come to an impasse, the newsgroup and me.  >uK > I can either wait until stuff shows up on the official HP site's and thenwI > post it or I can post it as soon as I get it.  I thought that the choirG > would want to know first.p  ) That's right. We sure want to know first.y  I > But if I post stuff early and just get negative response it seems a bitb > pointless to me.    B Don't blame it on you. Blame it on those who delay press releases.   > [...]i >a( > The choice is yours, just let me know.  
 Please go on.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:31:14 -0000.- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>eY Subject: RE: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai.E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE4C@tahiti.tinuk.com>2  H I'm not 100% sure of the reasons for skirting around who it was/is we'reD talking about here, but I'll guess that it's a company whose name isG along the lines of Vehicle-Telephone-Big-building-for-storage if anyoneF wants to try and translate!d  F Anyway, a year or more ago I visited said company as a guest of RAXCO,E as they were using this site and its VMS setup as a reference site tonH show how effective said setup was. The people using the kit seemed happyD with it, and obviously at that time there were no performance issues. that I recall, or that was mentioned to me.=20  E I doubt this takes this thread any further, but I do know someone whoED WAS working there at the time. If I can track him down now he's leftG I'll see what I can find out, but I do wonder if the systems might have:  been replaced for other reasons.   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 2751313
 www.torex.com-   >>-----Original Message-----2 >>From: jlsue [mailto:jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com]=20 >>Sent: 13 February 2003 19:10 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1< >>Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press=20* >>release for Marveland Alpha Retain Trust >> >>> >>On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:04:03 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK=20< >>Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>=20-G >>>NO I didn't I claimed that customers had issues with GS160 vs 140=20M& >>>performance and that claim is true. >>>eE >>>I am also offering to supply you with an actual example of a UK=201; >>>retailer who made a significant GS320 investment, who=20m >>subsequently had=20eJ >>>to switch platforms because of these issues, about as extreme as you=20 >>>can get.r >>>t> >>>Conduct your poll if you like, its hardly going to prove=20 >>much. Very few=20eI >>>people a prepared to admit publically that they purchased the wrong=20a >>>system and had to dump it.t >>>, >>[etc.] >>7 >>You backpedal more than anyone I've ever seen before.a >> >> >> >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:17:49 +0000w( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium) Message-ID: <3E4CB43D.C356D71D@127.0.0.1>g   JF Mezei wrote:a >  > Nic Clews wrote:G > > For the purposes of capturing diagnostic information, I prefer thisw > > method than using paper. > 9 > Still no excuse to use a windows laptop. Consider this:  > O > It is bad enough VMS is tortured and forced to boot onto an enemy Intel chip,sK > but you then make matters worse by surrounding it with yet another ennemytO > Intel processor and force the output of struggling VMS to go trhough the Evilo > operating system.n > 6 > Don't they have laws against such software torture ?   But what about the trees?   L > Serously, you should have had a read VT 220 terttminal hooked to that IA64P > box, and hook the laptop to the printer port of the VT220 and hide the laptop.O > Or better yet, route the output of the printer port to a DECterm session on a0 > real workstation for logging.2  D OK, free offer time. UK north-west England, LA75, free to good home.  F Ideal for hooking up to printer port enabled terminals to log your VMSE boots. Some paper included, I may be able to find a ribbon. Email me.  -- 6? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com0   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 05:26:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium3 Message-ID: <$61j1+$y7j8C@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3E4C6D1E.9060000@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:9 >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:h >> e' >> We use OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS AlphaA* >>>today, but we can't use OpenVMS Itanium >  > 0 > This caught my eye.  The question is, why not?  E As a guess, perhaps someone other than HP owns the rights to the name  Itanium and controls its use...a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:54:39 GMTp0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium0 Message-ID: <3e4ce690.138212090@news.eircom.net>  5 On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:12 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" 0 <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote:  M >Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgot.L >to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my chagrin)L >doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most peopleI >choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminalyK >emulator, rather than running the little hack we have that will change thee- >speed to something more useable - like 9600.   < I don't understand this - 9600 is _more_ usable than 115000?   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."c+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.r! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:56:44 -0000 * From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium6 Message-ID: <b2ip2g$1d85nj$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in message * news:3e4ce690.138212090@news.eircom.net...7 > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:12 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"t2 > <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote: > H > >Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotE > >to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my  chagrin)G > >doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So mostR peopleK > >choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminal I > >emulator, rather than running the little hack we have that will changer thet/ > >speed to something more useable - like 9600.a >l> > I don't understand this - 9600 is _more_ usable than 115000? >tL If the line does not support flow control the data disappears off the top ofK the screen far too quickly to read at 115000, even at 9600 it can sometimes0 be too quick to read.TK In this particular context, where examination of messages as they occur cannD be critical, a slower speed is far more usable than a very fast one.     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:12:34 -0500I5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> 2 Subject: RE: Photographs of VMS booting on ItaniumO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B362BE@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   F I think it appropriate that windows is a dumb terminal next to VMS ;-)   -----Original Message-----8 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] ) Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:36 PM, To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com02 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium     Nic Clews wrote:F > For the purposes of capturing diagnostic information, I prefer this  > method than using paper.  7 Still no excuse to use a windows laptop. Consider this:E  G It is bad enough VMS is tortured and forced to boot onto an enemy IntelnH chip, but you then make matters worse by surrounding it with yet anotherK ennemy Intel processor and force the output of struggling VMS to go trhough  the Evil operating system.  4 Don't they have laws against such software torture ?      J Serously, you should have had a read VT 220 terttminal hooked to that IA64F box, and hook the laptop to the printer port of the VT220 and hide theH laptop. Or better yet, route the output of the printer port to a DECterm* session on a real workstation for logging.    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and)J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/ornJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:18:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium3 Message-ID: <jgmP7cbVb0Bd@eisner.encompasserve.org>I  c In article <3e4ce690.138212090@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:a7 > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:12 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" 2 > <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote: > N >>Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotM >>to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my chagrin)=M >>doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most peoplehJ >>choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminalL >>emulator, rather than running the little hack we have that will change the. >>speed to something more useable - like 9600. > > > I don't understand this - 9600 is _more_ usable than 115000?  D For booting systems yes.  It is a "traditional" speed to which a lot of hardware will default.e   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:21:03 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium3 Message-ID: <sk$H8ahrJB2x@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  [ In article <3E4C5AD4.54E7692D@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t > VAXVMS wrote:e >> e; >> "Bob Koehler"  [koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]l >> oA >> In article <v4l10mm46nlh13@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero"k >> <John@mvpsi.com>l
 >> writes: >> h >> >G >> > Geez, couldn't they find something other than Windows to use for as >> console?d >> iD >> "Bob Koehler"  [koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org] replied: >>  G >>    Read between the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console 5 >>    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.y >> v% >> What would you guys have them use?t >> i >> A VT terminal, perhaps? >> a6 >> What sort of message would *that* send to the PHBs? > E > Well, to me, a VT525 is a VXT follow-on that never was. So, a VT525 0 > might have been doable, to some degree, IMO... >  > -- r > David J. Dachterab > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:24:12 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium3 Message-ID: <P18jDkiO$WNJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>j  W In article <3E4C6D1E.9060000@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:@ >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e >> t' >> We use OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS AlphaT* >>>today, but we can't use OpenVMS Itanium >  > 0 > This caught my eye.  The question is, why not?  C    I assumed Itanium (and perhaps IPF) is TM Intel.  Maybe they canK$    bring back three letter acronyms:      OpenVMS AXI      (Absolutely eXactly Intel).   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:27:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>C2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on ItaniumJ Message-ID: <vV73a.353278$pDv.106047@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message"# news:3E4CB43D.C356D71D@127.0.0.1...d >dF > OK, free offer time. UK north-west England, LA75, free to good home. >oD > Ideal for hooking up to printer port enabled terminals to log your VMS C > boots. Some paper included, I may be able to find a ribbon. Emailt me.     F I've got an LA-12C sitting in my basement, complete with 300/1200 baudA built-in acoustic coupler and serial port. Last used in 1988 - inn? working condition then. The printing mechanism will take 3 copyrF carbonless paper - ideal for sharing boot sequences with others in the office. ;-)'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:46:54 -0500yA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>m2 Subject: Re: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium, Message-ID: <3e4d2b8f_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in messageO* news:3e4ce690.138212090@news.eircom.net...7 > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:56:12 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" 2 > <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote: >oH > >Ah.  On the i2000, the consoles serial port runs at 115k, and someone forgotE > >to add a command to change the baud in a "sticky" way.  VMS (to my  chagrin)G > >doesn't let you specify this speed to allow a SET HOST/DTE.  So most  peopleK > >choose to use a PC (which of course, everyone has anyway) and a terminaleI > >emulator, rather than running the little hack we have that will change/ then/ > >speed to something more useable - like 9600.e >a> > I don't understand this - 9600 is _more_ usable than 115000? >   J The standard for Alpha is 9600 baud, so it will be compatable with all theE serial line devices currently being used, like LAT, SET HOST/DTE from( another VMS system, etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:17:01 +00001- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>v- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sectionn/ Message-ID: <v4pgh67cr1746a@corp.supernews.com>e   Z wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen  wrote:sG > :> SYS$CRMPSC [inadr] ,[retadr] ,[acmode] ,[flags] ,[gsdnam] ,[ident]m6 > :> ,[relpag] ,[chan] ,[pagcnt] ,[vbn] ,[prot] ,[pfc] >nG > : That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macroshE > : for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order or-3 > : contiguously, so long as you specify the names.B >KC > : I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser - > languages. >@6 > That's not beauty, it's 6' of rope to hang yourself.   You have to be joking, right ?  A Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this beholder sees thato
 beauty :-)  	 Roy Omondg Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:02:09 +0100uE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>r- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sectione+ Message-ID: <3E4CCCB1.3996260D@mediasec.de>t  E > That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macroswC > for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order ore1 > contiguously, so long as you specify the names.n > K > I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser languages.-  I I am relieved, then, that my favourite, Fortran, is not a lesser languagec - it also has this capability.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 05:28:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen).- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sectiont3 Message-ID: <4S3D3dIE4Kwn@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  s In article <3E4CCCB1.3996260D@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:tF >> That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macrosD >> for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order or2 >> contiguously, so long as you specify the names. >> /L >> I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser languages. > K > I am relieved, then, that my favourite, Fortran, is not a lesser language   > - it also has this capability.  D I see from two posts now that my list was not complete; there is oneD obvious lesser language, but it is the language whose name shall not be spoken...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:18:02 -050012 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sectionfL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1402030718020001@user-uinj43q.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <4S3D3dIE4Kwn@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.netm (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  3 >In article <3E4CCCB1.3996260D@mediasec.de>, Jan C.j@ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:G >>> That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macrosnE >>> for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order orm3 >>> contiguously, so long as you specify the names.t >>> M >>> I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser languages.n >> eL >> I am relieved, then, that my favourite, Fortran, is not a lesser language! >> - it also has this capability.n >eE >I see from two posts now that my list was not complete; there is one E >obvious lesser language, but it is the language whose name shall not0
 >be spoken...   J Yeah, but VMS engineers had the foresight to assign the ACCVIO condition aJ number (in hex) taken from the name of this lesser language.  An excellentC mnemonic device, since the language contributes to so many ACCVIOs.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:45:56 -0000s! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> - Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sectionc/ Message-ID: <v4pp84m3k83bcf@corp.supernews.com>t  . Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:H :> : That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macrosF :> : for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order or4 :> : contiguously, so long as you specify the names. :>D :> : I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser 
 :> languages.t :>7 :> That's not beauty, it's 6' of rope to hang yourself.t    : You have to be joking, right ?   Not at all.   # What happens when the names change?h   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:17:34 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global section-3 Message-ID: <jBL4au4T2SRT@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  S In article <v4pp84m3k83bcf@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:n0 > Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:J > :> : That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macrosH > :> : for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order or6 > :> : contiguously, so long as you specify the names. > :>F > :> : I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lesser  > :> languages.  > :>9 > :> That's not beauty, it's 6' of rope to hang yourself.t > " > : You have to be joking, right ? > 
 > Not at all.u > % > What happens when the names change?v  E When what names change ?  The names of the arguments ?  That is quitetD against VMS Development policy, as those names are embedded into the' SDL source for the Starlet entrypoints.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:26:46 +0000c- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>s- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global section / Message-ID: <v4prkvktr003ac@corp.supernews.com>1   Z wrote:   > Roy Omond  wrote:tJ > :> : That is the beauty of Pascal, and Ada, and the Bliss keyword macrosH > :> : for Starlet.  You don't have to present the arguments in order or6 > :> : contiguously, so long as you specify the names. > :>E > :> : I am continually amazed by what people put up with from lessert > :> languages.a > :>9 > :> That's not beauty, it's 6' of rope to hang yourself.  >t" > : You have to be joking, right ? > 
 > Not at all.  > % > What happens when the names change?1  C Eh, as Larry rightly points out, the names are not going to change.h  6 In any case, the glib answer to your comment would be:  = "the same thing as when the order of the parameters changes".t  	 Roy Omondu Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 06:49:15 -0800# From: SY1333@AOL.COM (Sean Yazdani) 0 Subject: Restore of System to a different Server< Message-ID: <6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com>  E Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image) @ from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentB physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with same size, and both on 7.1-2).  ' Any guidance would be much appreciated.o   Regards & Thanks a   Sean   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:07:55 -0500t& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030214100619.04a39e80@pop.rcn.com>  ' At 06:49 AM 2/14/2003 -0800, you wrote: F >Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)A >from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentaC >physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but witha >same size, and both on 7.1-2).. >t( >Any guidance would be much appreciated.  < No problem doing that at all.  That's how systems are moved K around.  Standalone images just know about contents of the disks, not what i the physical disks are.u   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:14:00 -0000n- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>s4 Subject: RE: Restore of System to a different ServerE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1CC@tahiti.tinuk.com>   D Further to Ken's response, you will of course have to check all yourH procedures to make sure that any hard-coded device names are modified toF reflect the changes [if you have any] which is a good advert for using  logical names wherever possible.   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131r
 www.torex.coml   >>-----Original Message-----2 >>From: Ken Robinson [mailto:kenrbnsn1@rcn.com]=20 >>Sent: 14 February 2003 15:08 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come6 >>Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server >> >>) >>At 06:49 AM 2/14/2003 -0800, you wrote: 8 >>>Is it possible to restore a complete system backup=20 >>(standalone image)=20tF >>>from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has different=20? >>>physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200=20  >>but with same=20 >>>size, and both on 7.1-2). >>>e* >>>Any guidance would be much appreciated. >>@ >>No problem doing that at all.  That's how systems are moved=20? >>around.  Standalone images just know about contents of the=20  >>disks, not what=20 >>the physical disks are.k >> >>Ken Robinson >> >> >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:20:58 -0500l1 From: "Lonnie Blevins" <lblevins@regenstrief.org>y4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server3 Message-ID: <b2j51b$36j$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>   F We ran into problems with items in the print and batch queues becomingK invalid (logical names are translated and specific version numbers recordedhH before items get stored in the queue files), but everything else worked.  0 "Sean Yazdani" <SY1333@AOL.COM> wrote in message6 news:6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com...G > Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image) B > from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentD > physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with  > same size, and both on 7.1-2). >n) > Any guidance would be much appreciated.n >n > Regards & Thanks >e > Sean   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:19:52 GMTt7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) 4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server- Message-ID: <sO73a.100444$tq4.3901@sccrnsc01>y  b In article <6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com>, SY1333@AOL.COM (Sean Yazdani) writes:F >Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)A >from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentUC >physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but withi >same size, and both on 7.1-2).   N Not quite enough information here, but here are some things that come to mind:  M Make sure the "new" server is of the same "class" as the old server, to avoidoL potential licensing issues (moving a system disk from a PWS433au to a GS1280/ *might* involve acquiring additional licenses!)l  N Do a standalone restore of the system disk on the "new" machine, then edit theM system startup files to reflect the new physical device names, if any of your/E startup files refer to the physical device names (I would guess maybe)N SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, SYLOGIN.COM, SYLOGICALS.COM at a minimum; do a "$search" toK find any device-specific entries in the startup files *before* you move theyM disk, and edit those entries - then you can skip the edit after the restore).t  O I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions; these are just the top two thatsH come to my mind - I've done this before, and had to do these things at a minimum.  
 Good luck!   >u( >Any guidance would be much appreciated. >e >Regards & Thanks  >a >Sean0  A _________________________________________________________________s0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:46:09 GMTo( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server- Message-ID: <5b83a.109948$be.78308@rwcrnsc53>4  0 "Sean Yazdani" <SY1333@AOL.COM> wrote in message6 news:6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com...G > Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)iB > from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentD > physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with  > same size, and both on 7.1-2).  K Yes, and in fact, the target disk doesn't have to be the same size, as longs; as it's large enough to contain the contents of the backup.a     -- Mark E. Levy" System Management Associates, Inc. Phone: 847-730-3193s Fax:      847-730-3194 Cell:      847-370-3071  Text:     melevy@vtext.com or               melevy@skytel.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:53:35 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server0 Message-ID: <3E4D0F74.42138896@blueyonder.co.uk>   Steve Spires wrote:  > F > Further to Ken's response, you will of course have to check all yourJ > procedures to make sure that any hard-coded device names are modified toH > reflect the changes [if you have any] which is a good advert for using" > logical names wherever possible. >   G Its when the developers use hard coded device names that the fun really H begins. This being VMS however, one can always cludge something together$ with translation=concealed logicals.     regardsg   -- n tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 11:35:16 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server3 Message-ID: <O5PUQxtpr$c+@eisner.encompasserve.org>@  g In article <b2j51b$36j$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>, "Lonnie Blevins" <lblevins@regenstrief.org> writes:tH > We ran into problems with items in the print and batch queues becomingM > invalid (logical names are translated and specific version numbers recordedrJ > before items get stored in the queue files), but everything else worked.  E Technically it's a volume identifier and file identification that aresG recorded in the queue database.  If you do an /IMAGE restore and retainrD the same volume label on the target disk, I _think_ you'll get print and batch jobs to work out OK.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:15:38 +0000 (UTC)e+ From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)s4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server+ Message-ID: <b2j4na$jpf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  b In article <6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com>, SY1333@AOL.COM (Sean Yazdani) writes:F >Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)A >from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has different-C >physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but withL >same size, and both on 7.1-2).: >:( >Any guidance would be much appreciated. >  >Regards & Thanks  >r >Sean   P Yes, standard disaster recovery procedure. If the systems both support the same H version of the OS then you just need to make sure that the disks you areO restoring to are large enough. Obviously once you have restored the system diskF@ you will need to alter the mount commands for the other devices.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:41:03 -0000t+ From: m_thompson@ids.net (Michael Thompson) J Subject: Re: RP06's and Field Service calls -- was Very large disks on VMS/ Message-ID: <v4psffjgktn445@corp.supernews.com>d  P I have an RP06 at home. I rewired it from three-phase to single-phase. It works > nicely on the KS10. I also have an RM03 that has DCL problems.  E In article <20030213150442.59AFEA36.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, i prep@prep.synonet.com says..., > : >pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes: >  >> In article I <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660D54@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,e) >> Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:"
 >> >David, >o6 >> >>>> Heartbreak Deja Vu: Ever drop an RP06 pack?<<< >pE >> >Heartbreak is being a FE on call on Friday night and hoping it isoC >> >going to be a quiet weekend as you have lots of stuff to do ande> >> >then getting the following call from some mission criticalG >> >customers operator - "well, there was a strange noise coming out of B >> >this one RP0x, drive, so I moved the pack to each of the otherD >> >drives we had and now they are all making noises .. Any idea's?" > F >> >Weekend is now shot and around the clock job starts to replace allG >> >the heads on all the Customers drives where that Operator moved the7E >> >bad pack to. First task is to stop and pick up baseball bat as itG< >> >will be involved in the first task when you get on site. >V7 >> Can I borrow the bat for Fort Monmouth, NJ.  Please.- > < >> They needed a clue bat pretty bad down there in the 80's. > C >> Had a customer at the Fort do something as annoying.  All 6 dual A >> port RP06's went "unsafe" and faulted and the two VAX 11/780'sDF >> didn't boot at Fort Monmouth after some building maintenance and it? >> was an "emergency" and there was 2 hour DECservice response.  > G >I felt like some one should have used one on me years ago. Called intodC >a govt dept that had an 11/70 with RM03s. Caa't remember why I wasuC >there, but we went into the comp room for some reason. As we whereeB >there, a huge noise came for one of the RM03s :( There was only a/ >small sonic boom as I hit the off-line button.  >tD >After we went over anything, it turned out to be a cable label thatD >was just touching the drive belt went it felt like it and the phase >off the moon was right..t >o@ >Now I had a perfectly good 11/70, with M+, and a almost perfectG >drive. It was only missing the VolValid bit :( Did I ever feel like anu	 >idiot...o >i >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,r8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076f+ >comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdotc/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.eG >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.,   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:54:02 GMTm4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win32t0 Message-ID: <3E4C2E90.F4C1613E@blueyonder.co.uk>   Baby Peanut wrote: > G > This version is supposed to support VAXcluster.  Can someone test ande > report if it's true?  Thanks!p >   / OK, I've found a bit of time to play with this.   H Currently booting a satellite (Simh 2.10-3) on W98 into a cluster with a( boot node running Simh 2.10-3 on linux.   H 2.10-1 gives NETDLLERR bugcheck crashes soon after starting MSCP server, as I discovered the hard way.l  H There are some funnies with the ip support on linux. For some reason theJ linux box can't "see" the VMS instance it is running, although the Windows3 box can. I can see I shall be perusing "man route".s  Y Your instructions are a keeper btw, the docs are somewhat skimpy. I built my version froml. source, though Mingw is endless fun and games.  B For those who moan about lack of VMS on IA32, please stop now :-).    s regards,    w   -- a tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk u  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 06:24:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i! Subject: Single process debuggingt3 Message-ID: <Z$GoUkKGM81N@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  B Using Alpha VMS V7.3 I discover that I have forgotten how to forceB the debugger to run in the same process as the program under test.  " The documentation was not helpful.   Can anyone here tell me ?   H (For the curious, the problem is one of getting overwhelmed with context; switch overhead resulting from a SET BREAK/AFTER=10000000.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:47:08 +0530v4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com>! Subject: stupid STR$LEFT question I Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260EA2A19@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>-   Hi all,eL I am having problem with the foll sample program. OpenVMS 7.3, COmpaq C 6.5.      It gives me an access violation:     #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>a #include <str$routines.h>> #include <string.h>    void main(void)  {    char name[40];   char eagles[40];
   char * ptr;i  $   strcpy(eagles,"Hotel California");     STR$LEFT(name,eagles,3);   printf("%s\n",name); }N  	 cc test.cc	 link test  run test  ; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=0000000000000003, PC=FFFFFFFF808DFA28, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsaJ   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC  >                                             0 FFFFFFFF808DFA28 FFFFFFFF808DFA28>  TEST  TEST  main                        3522 0000000000000114 0000000000020114>  TEST  TEST  __main                         0 0000000000000094 0000000000020094>                                             0 FFFFFFFF802573B4 FFFFFFFF802573B4   Thanks in advance...    7 +-----------------------------------------------------+r0 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            0 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  1 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             60 	U.P, INDIA                                     6                                                       0 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          0 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    5       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS          o7 +-----------------------------------------------------+u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:24:08 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: stupid STR$LEFT question L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1402030724080001@user-uinj43q.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260EA2A19@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>,n5 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:h   >Hi all,M >I am having problem with the foll sample program. OpenVMS 7.3, COmpaq C 6.5.p >t >p! >It gives me an access violation:e >w >s >#include <stdio.h>  >#include <stdlib.h> >#include <str$routines.h> >#include <string.h> >d >void main(void) >{ r >  char name[40];t >  char eagles[40];V >  char * ptr; >e% >  strcpy(eagles,"Hotel California");b >  >  STR$LEFT(name,eagles,3);c    I STR$LEFT requires that the string arguments be passed by descriptor.  You G have passed pointers to strings by value.  STR$LEFT tries to access the # descriptors, but they aren't there.n  F See the C documentation for a good discussion, with examples, of using% descriptors in calls to VMS routines.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:36:12 GMTc" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG% Subject: Re: stupid STR$LEFT questionp0 Message-ID: <00A1B784.39F0E7FC@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260EA2A19@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes: >Hi all,M >I am having problem with the foll sample program. OpenVMS 7.3, COmpaq C 6.5.1 >e >0! >It gives me an access violation:n >i >m >#include <stdio.h>) >#include <stdlib.h> >#include <str$routines.h> >#include <string.h> #include <descrip.h> >. >void main(void) >{ 2	    int i;2 static >  char name[40];  static >  char eagles[40];d >  char * ptr; $DESCRIPTOR (name_dsc,name); $DESCRIPTOR (eagles_dsc,eagle);, >d    memset(name,40,0);   % >  strcpy(eagles,"Hotel California");k,    eagles_dsc.dsc$w_length = strlen(eagles); >e /* >  STR$LEFT(name,eagles,3);S */    i=3;s%    STR$LEFT(&name_dsc,&eagles_dsc,3);  >  printf("%s\n",name);a >}     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2003 07:21:18 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) % Subject: Re: stupid STR$LEFT questionw- Message-ID: <CMzt5FxlLkQB@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>-  L In article <rdeininger-1402030724080001@user-uinj43q.dialup.mindspring.com>,8     rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >> >>  STR$LEFT(name,eagles,3); >  > K > STR$LEFT requires that the string arguments be passed by descriptor.  YouoI > have passed pointers to strings by value.  STR$LEFT tries to access theb% > descriptors, but they aren't there.t > B     Note also that it requires the length argument to be passed by< reference, not by value ( as appears to be happening here ).  <     Note the virtual address giving the accvio error is "3"?  H > See the C documentation for a good discussion, with examples, of using' > descriptors in calls to VMS routines.o   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 05:11:50 -0800 (PST)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>2 Subject: SuSE beats HP-UX, Solaris .... in Germany@ Message-ID: <20030214131150.44628.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Click1  4 http://news.com.com/2110-1001-984570.html?tag=cdshrt   Regardsp   FC f   =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilT fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 02:00:04 -0500-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Whatever happened to ... "Crashless Windows", and [OT] Solar Toxic Waste Pro 2 Message-ID: <5LecnUJWRa6dCdGjXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0302132018.49c3ddef@posting.google.com...S > Hello, >OA > According to the Google way-back machine, David Beatty wrote...e >o7 > From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>n > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsc" > Subject: OT: "Crashless Windows"' > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:38:35 -0500 % > [... remaining headers omitted ...]a >nD >     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section= > of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;o; > it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com. < > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an: > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and= > do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  Thea< > configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used> > ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be > interesting. >  > David R. Beatty  > * >                                --- o --- >e9 > OK. So, I have yet to see or hear of anyone using this.r  L I think the company was Marathon Technology, in Boxboro, MA, and that it mayK have gotten gobbled up recently by a bigger fish.  My impression is that ito# shipped products with some success.v   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:03:49 +0100e$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>1 Subject: Re: Where to find Oracle RDB information * Message-ID: <00A1B7DB.E3755928.2@decus.de>  , "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:  G > Javascript is NOT insecure, Java and ActiveX yes, but not Jacascript!yJ > Don't want to believe that, then spend some time investigating it but inF > every CERT advisory, the key component was NOT Javascript but rather@ > that the applications were running Microcrap IE or Outloose...  @ What about privacy issues? As far as I know using JavaScript theC server-side program (i.e., the web server application) can gather as@ lot of information from your computer you don't want to disclose intentionally.   Michaele   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:30:06 +0100l$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>1 Subject: Re: Where to find Oracle RDB informationt* Message-ID: <00A1B7E7.F19A6205.6@decus.de>  0 "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  : > In article <00A1B7DB.E3755928.2@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:0 > > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote: > > J > >> Javascript is NOT insecure, Java and ActiveX yes, but not Jacascript!M > >> Don't want to believe that, then spend some time investigating it but intI > >> every CERT advisory, the key component was NOT Javascript but ratheriC > >> that the applications were running Microcrap IE or Outloose...1 > >?D > > What about privacy issues? As far as I know using JavaScript theG > > server-side program (i.e., the web server application) can gather a D > > lot of information from your computer you don't want to disclose > > intentionally. >jA > That only happens if you enable JavaScript on your web browser.h  B Sorry -- I wasn't exact enough. That should have been "As far as I" know using _(enabling)_ JavaScriptA _on_the_client_(i.e.,_browser)_side_ the server-side program ..."k  A > JavaScript entirely on the web server, such as for "server sidemC > includes" presents no inherent security problems for the browser,>; > aside from those implicit in not using a robust language.   $ So you are confirming my impression.   Michaeli   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.090 ************************etween the lines:  by using Windows as a VMS system console 5 >>    they're declaring it to be obsolete technology.y >> v% >> What would you guys have them use?t >> i >> A VT terminal, perhaps? >> a6 >> Whacommand.  Try HELP.i
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,4,91)( <<< RETR q_utl.forb >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax88b1/ma_q_dev/kit/q_utl.for (60808 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  57134 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< REST 10247 >>> 500 I never heard of the REST command.  Try HELP.e
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,4,92)8 <<< RETR rd_user.rnod >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax88b1/ma_q_dev/kit/rd_user.rno (72258 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  70366 (8) bytes transferred.q <<< REST 102457 >>> 500 I never heard of the REST command.  Try HELP./
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,4,93)t <<< RETR read_mbx_nw.forg >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax88b1/ma_q_dev/kit/read_mbx_nw.for (3634 bytes) started.m: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  3377 (8) bytes transferred. <<< REST 1024 7 >>> 500 I never heard of the REST command.  Try HELP..
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,4,94)a <<< RETR read_net_ast.for i >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vax88b1/ma_q_dev/kit/read_net_ast.for (12934 bytes) started.P; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  12108 (8) bytes transferred.  <<< REST 1024e7 >>> 500 I never heard of the REST command.  Try HELP. 
 <<< PASV? >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,4,95)r <<< RETR rem_node_con.for h >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve