0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 18 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 96      Contents: accounting problem Re: accounting problem% Re: are there problems with Info-VAX? ! are there problems with Info-VAX? % Re: are there problems with Info-VAX? ! are there problems with Info-VAX? % Re: are there problems with Info-VAX?  BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails * Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS?5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch  Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibility DLTIV Tape Compatibility Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibility FREE VAXstation 4000-60  Re: FREE VAXstation 4000-60  Re: FREE VAXstation 4000-60 ( FW: Just wondering how everyone is doing GCC for VMS  Re: GCC for VMS  Re: GCC for VMS ! Re: GNU Patch for OpenVMS (again) 7 Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems # RE: hp invite to CeBIT mentions VMS E Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market $ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...$ Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly$ Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing5 Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0 and MACRO Assembler P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai> Re: OT: Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog!  Possible advertisement for Alpha$ Re: Possible advertisement for Alpha8 Re: Possible replacements for PSPA (Performance Advisor)8 Re: Possible replacements for PSPA (Performance Advisor)$ Re: Read/Write from a global section+ Re: Restore of System to a different Server + RE: Restore of System to a different Server 7 Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.2 7 Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.2 7 Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.2 3 Re: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel 3 Re: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel ( Re: Systemcrash after login after reboot Re: TCPIP: How to multihomed@ terminal speeds (was: RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium)! Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE   Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings3 Re: VMS documentation (OT feeble attempt at humour)  VMS Jobs in Norway?  wwidmgr - (SRM Console) # Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI # Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI # Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:19:19 +0530 , From: "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> Subject: accounting problem 2 Message-ID: <012b01c2d651$52fb6f60$3c03e980@bofpc>  J lets suppose that some one tries to run some  system admin's commands like0 authorize and ncp by using a privilized account.K moreover to conceal his time of doing so, he changed the system time at the B time of executing these commands and then restored the system timeJ afterwards,  so that by running accounting he cannot be traced even though the "set" entry will be logged.   : he has not created a new accounting file by set/acc = new.  I my question is IS IT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY THE ENTRIES OF THE ACCOUNTING.DAT G FILE SO THAT THEY CAN BE FAKED OR  MANUPULAED IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE - ABOVE CRUDE METHORD THAT OUR INTRUDER TRIED ?  any suggetions ? thanks in advance .  Arindam Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:52:44 +0100 8 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: accounting problem ) Message-ID: <3E5280FC.5040900@vajhoej.dk>    Arindam wrote:L > lets suppose that some one tries to run some  system admin's commands like2 > authorize and ncp by using a privilized account.M > moreover to conceal his time of doing so, he changed the system time at the D > time of executing these commands and then restored the system timeL > afterwards,  so that by running accounting he cannot be traced even though! > the "set" entry will be logged.  > < > he has not created a new accounting file by set/acc = new. > K > my question is IS IT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY THE ENTRIES OF THE ACCOUNTING.DAT I > FILE SO THAT THEY CAN BE FAKED OR  MANUPULAED IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE / > ABOVE CRUDE METHORD THAT OUR INTRUDER TRIED ?   B It is just a file. I do not think it is digitally signed/hashed orD anything. Which means that it may be possible to change content. Not easy but possible.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:22:02 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>. Subject: Re: are there problems with Info-VAX?+ Message-ID: <00A1BB03.18F382DC.11@decus.de>   6 "Alan Winston" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  > > In article <917991b.0302180231.78f82399@posting.google.com>,; helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) writes: 
 > >Hi all, > >  > > E > >Since I haven't received any Info-VAX messages for a while, here's " > >a question: is there a problem? >  > [...]  > ? > >Is anyone willing to offer me access to a news server from a C > >dynamic IP address, or know of a publicly available one which is B > >a) free or cheap, b) carries a lot of groups, c) is dependable,H > >quick and retains articles for at least a week and d) allows posting? >  > Second option: >  > http://news.cis.dfn.de/  > J > (Haven't used it, but have had it recommended to me.  According to theirK > posted policies: Free, allows posting (100kb limit, no binaries), carries N > lots of hierarchies, retains comp.* for 158 days (and most other hierarchiesI > for 26 days).  The person who recommended it  said they'd been using it P > for a year with no problems.  Note: munging from addresses is barred, spamming
 > is barred.)   M Using exactly that news server for about 8 months now without any problem ...   F As far as I know it is free only for private use, but I would considerD "OpenVMS hobbyist" use as being private. You have to register beforeB using it and get a valid username/password combination via e-mail.  E Since I have to use a Winwoes system for reading news groups I prefer F Info-VAX for posting -- to avoid disclosing too many personal data and+ to have spam sent to a VMS system at DECUS.    Michael    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:24:18 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> * Subject: are there problems with Info-VAX?; Message-ID: <01KSKTXU9WHE9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   B Please reply to helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com if you see this1 (don't reply to Info-VAX or post to comp.os.vms).    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:45:58 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com. Subject: Re: are there problems with Info-VAX?? Message-ID: <OF1DB6A3F7.978ED245-ON85256CD1.00618F52@metso.com>   ! Here we may have resurrection....   < From:  Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> on 02/18/2003 12:22 PM  0 Please respond to Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   1 Subject:    Re: are there problems with Info-VAX?     6 "Alan Winston" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:  > > In article <917991b.0302180231.78f82399@posting.google.com>,; helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) writes: 
 > >Hi all, > >  > > E > >Since I haven't received any Info-VAX messages for a while, here's " > >a question: is there a problem? >  > [...]  > ? > >Is anyone willing to offer me access to a news server from a C > >dynamic IP address, or know of a publicly available one which is B > >a) free or cheap, b) carries a lot of groups, c) is dependable,H > >quick and retains articles for at least a week and d) allows posting? >  > Second option: >  > http://news.cis.dfn.de/  > J > (Haven't used it, but have had it recommended to me.  According to theirK > posted policies: Free, allows posting (100kb limit, no binaries), carries B > lots of hierarchies, retains comp.* for 158 days (and most other hierarchies I > for 26 days).  The person who recommended it  said they'd been using it G > for a year with no problems.  Note: munging from addresses is barred,  spamming
 > is barred.)   I Using exactly that news server for about 8 months now without any problem  ..  F As far as I know it is free only for private use, but I would considerD "OpenVMS hobbyist" use as being private. You have to register beforeB using it and get a valid username/password combination via e-mail.  E Since I have to use a Winwoes system for reading news groups I prefer F Info-VAX for posting -- to avoid disclosing too many personal data and+ to have spam sent to a VMS system at DECUS.    Michael    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 02:31:10 -08009 From: helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) * Subject: are there problems with Info-VAX?< Message-ID: <917991b.0302180231.78f82399@posting.google.com>   Hi all,     B Since I haven't received any Info-VAX messages for a while, here's a question: is there a problem?   G I am posting this through Google.  I sent a similar message to Info-VAX  earlier today.  = I prefer Info-VAX to a WWW interface to the newsgroup, though ? only because I wrote a DCL procedure to let me selectively read : threads in a newsgroup from messages in a VMS MAIL folder.  A Even more I prefer an NNTP interface, using NEWSRDR.  Since I now ? have a DSL flatrate connection at home, I will probably go back B to reading comp.os.vms from home via NEWSRDR.  The only problem is a news server.  @ Yes, there are some publicly accessible ones out there, but they> either cost money, don't allow posting or don't carry all the ? groups I want.  (I definitely want to have just ONE news server  to deal with.)  = A while back, someone here offered me access to a news server > based on IP address.  Soon after that my ISP changed my static; IP address, but I never pursued this option further because @ of lack of time and since at the time my only option was an ISDN; connection (with fixed IP address) which was too expensive.   < Is anyone willing to offer me access to a news server from a@ dynamic IP address, or know of a publicly available one which is? a) free or cheap, b) carries a lot of groups, c) is dependable, E quick and retains articles for at least a week and d) allows posting?    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 09:17:12 -0800+ From: Norm.Raphael@Metso.com (Norm Raphael) . Subject: Re: are there problems with Info-VAX?= Message-ID: <806ddb7a.0302180917.15baaa98@posting.google.com>   E I, too, am not receiving Info-VAX messages.  Who should be contacted?    winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A1BA84.0EF1F0EC@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...z > In article <917991b.0302180231.78f82399@posting.google.com>, helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) writes:
 > >Hi all, > >  > > E > >Since I haven't received any Info-VAX messages for a while, here's " > >a question: is there a problem? > M > Apparently; at least there's been a more traffic than usual on comp.os.vms.  >  > >  > > @ > >I prefer Info-VAX to a WWW interface to the newsgroup, thoughB > >only because I wrote a DCL procedure to let me selectively read= > >threads in a newsgroup from messages in a VMS MAIL folder.  > > D > >Even more I prefer an NNTP interface, using NEWSRDR.  Since I nowB > >have a DSL flatrate connection at home, I will probably go backE > >to reading comp.os.vms from home via NEWSRDR.  The only problem is  > >a news server.  > > C > >Yes, there are some publicly accessible ones out there, but they A > >either cost money, don't allow posting or don't carry all the  B > >groups I want.  (I definitely want to have just ONE news server > >to deal with.)  > > @ > >A while back, someone here offered me access to a news serverA > >based on IP address.  Soon after that my ISP changed my static > > >IP address, but I never pursued this option further becauseC > >of lack of time and since at the time my only option was an ISDN > > >connection (with fixed IP address) which was too expensive. > > ? > >Is anyone willing to offer me access to a news server from a C > >dynamic IP address, or know of a publicly available one which is B > >a) free or cheap, b) carries a lot of groups, c) is dependable,H > >quick and retains articles for at least a week and d) allows posting? >  > Second option: >  > http://news.cis.dfn.de/  > K > (Haven't used it, but have had it recommended to me.  According to their  K > posted policies: Free, allows posting (100kb limit, no binaries), carries N > lots of hierarchies, retains comp.* for 158 days (and most other hierarchiesI > for 26 days).  The person who recommended it  said they'd been using it P > for a year with no problems.  Note: munging from addresses is barred, spamming
 > is barred.)  > P > On the web page you'll have your choice of German or English; as I recall, you+ > speak both, so you'll have a real choice.  >  > HTH! > 	 > -- Alan  >  > Q > =============================================================================== 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 O >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 Q > ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 07:59:53 -0800' From: dennisb@wvhmhc.org (Dennis Baker) & Subject: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails= Message-ID: <6f29699e.0302180759.3bc69e61@posting.google.com>   E We've recently added /ignore=interlock to our backup command files in D an attempt to get copies of open user files.  Yes, we are aware thatB this could lead to "inconsistencies".  We run backups in the earlyF morning, and occasionally a user leaves a file open when they go home,C so a backup of their last saved file is better than nothing at all.   @ However, some backups seem to bomb out as soon as the warning isF logged, and some seem to log but ignore warnings then bomb out later! C Here's one command file BACK2.COM with irrelevant commands stripped D out: (Okay, please don't flame me for using /noverify; we back up 25D GB daily on mostly three drives, and doubling the time would requireC overtime to complete all the jobs in one shift!  We are planning to  upgrade the whole system.)   $SET VERIFY 	 $SET NOON  $ SHOW TIME  $ SHOW ERROR@ $ Submit/LOG=COM:BACK2.LOG/after="tomorrow+22:22"  COM:BACK2.COM $! $ SHOW TIME  $ SHOW ERROR $!= $INIT/MEDIA=COMPACT MKA500: WVHBCK/OVER=(ACCESSIBILITY,OWNER)  $! $ SHOW TIME  $ SHOW ERROR $! $set proc/prior=10 $BACKUP DKA0:[*...]*.*- V  MKA500:A2A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,
 INTERLOCK) $! $ SHOW TIME  $ SHOW ERROR $!( $BACKUP DKA300:[BACKUP_DKB300*...]*.* - Q  MKA500:A2A300/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/NOVERIFY/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,  INTERLOCK)/RELEASE $!
 $DISM MKA500: 
 $SHOW TIME $ SHOW ERROR $! $set proc/prior=4  $PURGE/KEEP=15 COM:BACK2.LOG $! $EXIT   F Now, here's what I'm talking about: these are snippets from back2.log:  = $INIT/MEDIA=COMPACT MKA500: WVHBCK/OVER=(ACCESSIBILITY,OWNER)  $! $ SHOW TIME    17-FEB-2003 22:41:09 $ SHOW ERROR, Device                           Error Count* ALPHA2$PKA0:                           101+ $1$DKA0: (ALPHA2)                        3  * $1$DKA100: (ALPHA2)                      3* $1$DKA300: (ALPHA2)                      3* PEA0:                                    4* $1$DKB0: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)               34* $1$DKB100: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB200: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB300: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$MKA500: (ALPHA2)                   4125 $! $set proc/prior=10 $BACKUP DKA0:[*...]*.*- V  MKA500:A2A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,
 INTERLOCK) Listing of save set(s)  8 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, WVHBCK mounted on _$1$MKA500: (ALPHA2)A %BACKUP-I-LBLOVRWRITE, volume label WVHBCK       overwritten, new  label is A2A0   <CR><LF>6 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, A2A0 mounted on _$1$MKA500: (ALPHA2) Save set:          A2A0. Written by:        SYSTEM " UIC:               [000001,000004]* Date:              17-FEB-2003 22:41:09.81( Command:           BACKUP DKA0:[*...]*.*Z MKA500:A2A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,INTER  + Operating system:  OpenVMS AXP version V7.1  BACKUP version:    V6.2  CPU ID register:   80000000  Node name:         ALPHA2  Written on:        _$1$MKA500: Block size:        49152 Group size:        10  Buffer count:      71   > [000000]000000.DIR;1                                        1  17-DEC-1996 15:37 > [000000]MPH.DIR;1                                           1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH]DOCUMENTATION.DIR;1                                    1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_COVER.PS;1                          39  12-DEC-1996 15:24 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_COVER.TXT;1                          2  27-JUN-1996 16:34 ? [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_OVMS_INSTALL_GUIDE.PS;6            313    4-NOV-1996 13:27? [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_OVMS_INSTALL_GUIDE.TXT;32          173    6-NOV-1996 15:15> [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE_README.PS;3           20  30-NOV-1995 10:52 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE_README.TXT;6           5  30-NOV-1995 10:35 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_RELNOTE.PS;4                        53  11-NOV-1996 11:17 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_RELNOTE.TXT;5                       11  11-NOV-1996 11:17 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_SPD.PS;1                            48  12-DEC-1996 15:24 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_SPD.TXT;1                            7  27-JUN-1996 16:37 > [MPH]KIT.DIR;1                                              1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH.KIT]ALPHA_QUESTIONNAIRE.EXE;1                         25  25-MAY-1995 16:51 > [MPH.KIT]CQUES.DAT;1                                       12  25-MAY-1995 17:37 > [MPH.KIT]EQUES.DAT;1                                       10  25-MAY-1995 17:37 ? [MPH.KIT]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE.COM;4                           26    9-DEC-1996 16:55? [MPH.KIT]MPH_VMS016.A;1                                  2700    8-NOV-1996 10:41> [000000]MULTINET.DIR;1                                      1  18-JUN-1997 16:16 > [MULTINET]ALPHA2.DIR;1                                      1  18-JUN-1997 16:16 > [MULTINET.ALPHA2]MULTINET.DIR;1                            17  18-JUN-1997 16:19 > [MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]CLUSTER_ALIAS.STATE;2             1  11-FEB-2003 10:55 > [MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]CLUSTER_ALIAS.STATE;1             0  11-FEB-2003 10:55 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]DELME.LIS;2                    1908    3-SEP-1998 16:57? [MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]DELME.LIS;1                    1275    3-SEP-1998 16:44> [MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]DHCP-BACKUPSTATE.DAT;1          182  20-MAY-1999 13:13 F %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKA0:[MULTINET.ALPHA2.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES;1 is open for write by another user $! $ SHOW TIME    17-FEB-2003 22:41:43 $ SHOW ERROR, Device                           Error Count* ALPHA2$PKA0:                           101* $1$DKA0: (ALPHA2)                        3* $1$DKA100: (ALPHA2)                      3* $1$DKA300: (ALPHA2)                      3* PEA0:                                    4* $1$DKB0: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)               34* $1$DKB100: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB200: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB300: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$MKA500: (ALPHA2)                   4125 $!' $BACKUP DKA300:[BACKUP_DKB300*...]*.* - Q  MKA500:A2A300/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/NOVERIFY/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,  INTERLOCK)/RELEASE Listing of save set(s)  = %BACKUP-F-POSITERR, error positioning MKA500:[000000]A2A300.; , -SYSTEM-F-OPINCOMPL, operation is incomplete $!
 $DISM MKA500: 
 $SHOW TIME   17-FEB-2003 22:41:45 $ SHOW ERROR, Device                           Error Count* ALPHA2$PKA0:                           101* $1$DKA0: (ALPHA2)                        3* $1$DKA100: (ALPHA2)                      3* $1$DKA300: (ALPHA2)                      3* PEA0:                                    4* $1$DKB0: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)               34* $1$DKB100: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB200: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$DKB300: (ALPHA2, ALPHA1)             27* $1$MKA500: (ALPHA2)                   4126 $!  @ So, why did the first backup command fail after the warning?  OnD another post topic, it was suggested to add ON WARNING THEN CONTINUED before the backup command.  Doesn't SET NOON at the beginning of theE command file disable all error checking?  Does anyone suggest this as  a fix?  ) Now for the other command file BACK1.COM:  $SET VERIFY 	 $SET NOON  $! $ SHOW TIME @ $ Submit/LOG=COM:BACK1.LOG/after="tomorrow+22:22"  COM:BACK1.COM $! $ SHOW TIME  $ show error $!>  $INIT/MEDIA=COMPACT MKC400: WVHBCK/OVER=(ACCESSIBILITY,OWNER) $!
 $SHOW TIME $ show error $! $set proc/prior=10 $BACKUP DKC0:[*...]-V  MKC400:A1A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,
 INTERLOCK) $! $ SHOW TIME  $ show error $! $BACKUP DKB300:[SB...]- Q  MKC400:A1B300/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=65000/IGN=(LABEL,  INTERLOCK)/RELEASE $!
 $SHOW TIME $ show error $! $set proc/prior=8 
 $DISM MKC400: 
 $SHOW TIME $ show error $! $EXIT    Here's the log snippets:>  $INIT/MEDIA=COMPACT MKC400: WVHBCK/OVER=(ACCESSIBILITY,OWNER) $!
 $SHOW TIME   17-FEB-2003 22:23:36 $ show error, Device                           Error Count* $1$MKA100: (ALPHA1)                   1765* $1$MKC400: (ALPHA1)                   1296 $! $set proc/prior=10 $BACKUP DKC0:[*...]-V  MKC400:A1A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,
 INTERLOCK) Listing of save set(s)  8 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, WVHBCK mounted on _$1$MKC400: (ALPHA1)A %BACKUP-I-LBLOVRWRITE, volume label WVHBCK       overwritten, new  label is A1A0   <CR><LF>6 %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, A1A0 mounted on _$1$MKC400: (ALPHA1) Save set:          A1A0. Written by:        SYSTEM " UIC:               [000001,000004]* Date:              17-FEB-2003 22:23:37.22% Command:           BACKUP DKC0:[*...] ] MKC400:A1A0/REWIND/NOVERIFY/NOCRC/MEDIA=COMPACT/LIST/FAST/BLOCKSIZE=49152/IGN=(LABEL,INTERLOC   + Operating system:  OpenVMS AXP version V7.1  BACKUP version:    V6.2  CPU ID register:   80000000  Node name:         ALPHA1  Written on:        _$1$MKC400: Block size:        49152 Group size:        10  Buffer count:      60   > [000000]000000.DIR;1                                        1  17-DEC-1996 15:37 > [000000]MPH.DIR;1                                           1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH]DOCUMENTATION.DIR;1                                    1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_COVER.PS;1                          39  12-DEC-1996 15:24 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_COVER.TXT;1                          2  27-JUN-1996 16:34 ? [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_OVMS_INSTALL_GUIDE.PS;6            313    4-NOV-1996 13:27? [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_OVMS_INSTALL_GUIDE.TXT;32          173    6-NOV-1996 15:15> [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE_README.PS;3           20  30-NOV-1995 10:52 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE_README.TXT;6           5  30-NOV-1995 10:35 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_RELNOTE.PS;4                        53  11-NOV-1996 11:17 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_RELNOTE.TXT;5                       11  11-NOV-1996 11:17 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_SPD.PS;1                            48  12-DEC-1996 15:24 > [MPH.DOCUMENTATION]MPH_SPD.TXT;1                            7  27-JUN-1996 16:37 > [MPH]KIT.DIR;1                                              1  17-DEC-1996 16:36 > [MPH.KIT]ALPHA_QUESTIONNAIRE.EXE;1                         25  25-MAY-1995 16:51 > [MPH.KIT]CQUES.DAT;1                                       12  25-MAY-1995 17:37 > [MPH.KIT]EQUES.DAT;1                                       10  25-MAY-1995 17:37 ? [MPH.KIT]MPH_QUESTIONNAIRE.COM;4                           26    9-DEC-1996 16:55? [MPH.KIT]MPH_VMS016.A;1                                  2700    8-NOV-1996 10:41> [000000]MULTINET.DIR;1                                      1  18-JUN-1997 16:16 > [MULTINET]ALPHA1.DIR;1                                      1  18-JUN-1997 16:16 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1]MULTINET.DIR;1                            18  18-JUN-1997 16:19 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]CLUSTER_ALIAS.STATE;2             1  11-FEB-2003 10:56 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]CLUSTER_ALIAS.STATE;1             0  11-FEB-2003 10:56 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCP-BACKUPSTATE.DAT;1          182  20-MAY-1999 14:13 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCP-SERVER.JOU;1                 2  20-MAY-1999 09:47 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCP-STATE.DAT;1                182  22-MAY-1999 12:44 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;8                      6    1-OCT-2002 09:23> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;7                      5  15-DEC-2000 10:36 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;6                      5  11-DEC-2000 12:11 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;5                      5  17-OCT-2000 12:46 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;4                      5    5-OCT-2000 09:01> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.CONF;3                      5  25-SEP-2000 15:05 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.DMP;3                    4023  21-MAR-2002 15:03 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.DMP;2                    4023  22-FEB-2002 10:28 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.DMP;1                    4023    5-MAR-2001 09:03? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.DUMP;1                    218    1-JUL-1999 15:51F %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES;1 is open for write by another user> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES;1                    6  17-FEB-2003 22:08 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES_1037004259;1         0  11-NOV-2002 03:44 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES_983369921;1          5  28-FEB-2001 09:19 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DHCPD.LEASES_OLD;1                7  17-FEB-2003 21:07 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DOCUMENTS.DIR;1                   1  12-FEB-2002 13:54 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DOMAIN-NAME-SERVICE.ORG;7         1  16-MAR-2001 09:45 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DOMAIN-NAME-SERVICE.ORG;6         1    7-NOV-2000 15:40? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DOMAIN-NAME-SERVICE.ORG;5         1    7-NOV-2000 15:34> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]DOMAIN-NAME-SERVICE.ORG;4         1  23-OCT-2000 12:22  .  . (files logged without errors)  . > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET.INCLUDE]VMS.DIR;1                 1  18-JUN-1997 16:31 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]LIBRARY.DIR;1                     1  18-JUN-1997 16:31 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]LOADABLE_IMAGES.DIR;1             1  18-JUN-1997 16:19 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED.DMP;1                    6663    7-NOV-2000 15:29 %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, F DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED_CONTROL.LOG;120 is open for write by another user E %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NETSSNMP.LOG;181 ! is open for write by another user > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED.PID;1                       1  10-FEB-2003 11:39 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED_CONTROL.LOG;120             0  10-FEB-2003 11:39 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED_CONTROL.LOG;119             0    6-FEB-2003 19:30? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED_CONTROL.LOG;118             0    5-FEB-2003 19:23? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NAMED_CONTROL.LOG;117             0    1-FEB-2003 13:54> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NETSSNMP.LOG;181                  1  10-FEB-2003 11:39 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NETSSNMP.LOG;180                  1    6-FEB-2003 19:30? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NETSSNMP.LOG;179                  2    5-FEB-2003 19:23 .  . (files logged without errors)  . > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]NFS_CLIENT_ACP.DMP;1           5239  18-DEC-2002 19:08 F %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]SNMPSERVER.LOG;75! is open for write by another user 5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;7 >                                                            11  12-FEB-2002 17:14 5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;6 >                                                            11  26-SEP-2000 17:27 5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;5 >                                                            10  22-MAY-1999 13:29 5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;4 >                                                             9  18-APR-1999 18:2425 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;3p>                                                             6  26-MAY-1998 15:55r5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;2o>                                                             6  26-MAY-1998 13:13 5 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]REMOTE-PRINTER-QUEUES.COM;1a>                                                             6  26-MAY-1998 12:12I> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]RPCSTATUS.STATE;1                 1  23-JUN-1997 16:22V> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]SNMPSERVER.LOG;75                 1  10-FEB-2003 11:39 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]SNMPSERVER.LOG;74                 1  M 6-FEB-2003 19:30 .  . (files logged without errors)  .e> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;10            33  18-APR-1999 18:10 ? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;9             32  t 3-SEP-1998 16:56> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;8             32  26-MAY-1998 12:08oD %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]TGVSNMPC.LOG;75! is open for write by another usery> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;7             32  21-SEP-1997 17:01o> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;6             32  12-SEP-1997 21:39 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;5             32  12-JUL-1997 09:24m> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;4             32  11-JUL-1997 10:58C> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;3             32  18-JUN-1997 16:36m> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_MULTINET.COM;2             32  18-JUN-1997 16:36 > [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]START_SMTP_LOCAL.COM;1            9  22-FEB-2002 10:27a> [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]TGVSNMPC.LOG;75                   1  10-FEB-2003 11:39a? [MULTINET.ALPHA1.MULTINET]TGVSNMPC.LOG;74                   1  s 6-FEB-2003 19:30 .  . (files logged without errors)o .yD [MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_NW_CLIENT_LIBRARY.IIF;5>                                                            34  14-OCT-1994 13:35 7 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_PING.EXE;5B?                                                           232  l 5-JAN-2002 13:47 %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, C DKC0:[MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_PROFILE.DATA;1 isd open for write by another user; [MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_PROFILE.DATA;1M>                                                             4  18-APR-1999 18:24M8 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_RDATE.EXE;5?                                                           204  n 5-JAN-2002 13:479 [MULTINET.ALPHA1.SYSCOMMON.MULTINET]MULTINET_REPORT.TXT;5r>                                                             3  15-JAN-2002 10:18M .oD . (files logged without errors, or cases similar to those above with1 %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, but still logged backed up)D .a> [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UNZIP-AXP.EXE;1                    315  28-FEB-2001 11:17 > [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UNZIP-AXP.EXE_51;1                 249  19-SEP-1997 08:37c> [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UNZIP542.EXE;1                     285  17-JUL-2001 13:23n> [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.EXE;1             16  25-NOV-1996 22:03 > [SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]VERIFY.EXE;1                       434  25-NOV-1996 22:23oF %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DKC0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]VMS$OBJECTS.DAT;1 is open for write by another user $! $ SHOW TIMEo   17-FEB-2003 22:36:17 $ show error, Device                           Error Count* $1$MKA100: (ALPHA1)                   1765* $1$MKC400: (ALPHA1)                   1296  D Why does the backup job fail after the last warning, but none of theA previous ones?  It appears to be the same error.  In all previous F cases, the file noted in the warning is logged soon after the warning,	 as shown.o   I'm baffled.  Any ideas?  @ As an aside, anybody know an EASY way to preserve long lines?  IC composed this message in write, then pasted it.  If I pasted just aAF few lines with no return at the end, they displayed as I intended, butC when I tried to paste the whole message, it wrapped the long lines: ? yuck.  Pasting pieces at a time didn't seem to work, either.  I D realize the posting style guide says keep lines short, but log files were meant to be 132 cols!   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:03:04 +0000 (UTC).5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>A3 Subject: Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS?o1 Message-ID: <b2r4k7$nt7$1@knossos.btinternet.com>t  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message5* news:01C2D444.67B62490@sulfer.icius.com...F > A big thank you to all who offered up suggestions. It does look very- > much like I'll be getting a DE500 off eBay.o >tI > However, I don't like machines getting the better of me, so I just wentwG > another round with it. It turns out there were three spare EISA cards F > lying around in a dark corner, a DE202, a DE203 and a DE205. We also= > have a DE422 in a machine that could do without it briefly.w >eH > We plug in the DE202, DE203 or DE205 and our AlphaServer 1000A doesn'tH > even see them during its self test, or at the dead sergeant. The DE422C > though, it sees. So I'm wondering, are the 200 series perhaps notn > supported by the 1000A?  >s > Shanel >e  6 Could be wrong, but in the absence of better offers...  L  I thought that EISA cards were generally invisible to software  (console or? OS) until you'd run the EISA Config Utility and configured themfJ appropriately. From memory, the 422 is an EISA card. Do you have an ECU toJ run? It sounds like you do or you did - but did you do this knowingly just now, or many years ago...e  L From memory, the others are ISA not EISA and so you need to incant things inJ console mode using isaconfig? (isacfg? away from box at the moment) beforeI they will be visible. You may even have to inspect and adjust jumpers andtH such. It'll be documented somewhere... system owner's guide, NIC owner's+ guide, some Alpha LINUX HOWTO on the web...e  L One other possible option for you might be one of the small selection of PCIG NICs which were based on the DEC 21040/21140 chipset as used on DEC PCIOJ NICs. These might well be compatible with Alpha boxes and and OSes. I usedH to have a PC rag review with a list of these in. Unfortunately they wereL division 2 names and I can't remember them or find the article. So DE500 off( ebay is still probably your best option.   regardsY john   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 01:58 CDTG' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)-> Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch- Message-ID: <18FEB200301584899@gerg.tamu.edu>s  / koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org writes...gZ }In article <1030217195540.15004A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: }> t? }> VMS721_SYS V11.0 has a bug that causes a system crash in NFS @ }> using TCPWARE (definitely) and TCP/IP Services (IIRC).  Don'tA }> know about Multinet.  This is fixed in VMS721_SYS V12.0, whicht? }> was available at ftp.support.compaq.com, last time I looked.h } D }   Not using NFS right now anyhow.  But when I looked V11.0 was the1 }   last.  When I get time maybe I'll look again..  ) You must not have looked for a long time.H  G VMS721_SYS-V1200 has been out since 2-MAY-2002. (Which was 2 days afterL I applied V11. Such is life.)    The best place to look:R  < http://riogrande.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a721.htm   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:27:39 +0100r6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>% Subject: Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibilityg) Message-ID: <3E525EFB.2010208@vajhoej.dk>n   Sean Yazdani wrote:oC > My DLT drive seems unable to read DLT IV tapes (containing BackupuF > savesets created by /image/media=compaction from another server). ItF > is type TZ89 and can read DLT III tapes OK. The LED indicator on theG > drive showing tape capacity goes up to 35GB, I believe DLT IV is 40GBhD > or 80 with Compaction. Am I doing anything wrong or is DLT III the' > only solution? (error message below).c  2 I belive that you can ask the IV drive to write on9 the tape in III density so in can be read by a III drive.A   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 08:22:37 -0800# From: SY1333@AOL.COM (Sean Yazdani)H! Subject: DLTIV Tape Compatibilityu= Message-ID: <6f1d9079.0302180822.3589e5d3@posting.google.com>t  A My DLT drive seems unable to read DLT IV tapes (containing BackupyD savesets created by /image/media=compaction from another server). ItD is type TZ89 and can read DLT III tapes OK. The LED indicator on theE drive showing tape capacity goes up to 35GB, I believe DLT IV is 40GB3B or 80 with Compaction. Am I doing anything wrong or is DLT III the% only solution? (error message below).8 Thanks in advance for any help  * $> mount/for mkc400                       0 %MOUNT-I-OPRQSTCAN, operator request canceled   0 %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked      > $> backup/list/rewind mkc400:/sav                             D Listing of save set(s)                                              D                                                                     D %BACKUP-F-LABELERR, error in tape label processing on MKC400:[0000000 -BACKUP-F-NOTANSI, tape is not valid ANSI format   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:08:23 GMTe+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>e% Subject: Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibility . Message-ID: <rEu4a.48$ws.11125@news.umass.edu>  $ Sean Yazdani <SY1333@aol.com> wrote:C > My DLT drive seems unable to read DLT IV tapes (containing Backup F > savesets created by /image/media=compaction from another server). ItF > is type TZ89 and can read DLT III tapes OK. The LED indicator on theG > drive showing tape capacity goes up to 35GB, I believe DLT IV is 40GBmD > or 80 with Compaction. Am I doing anything wrong or is DLT III the' > only solution? (error message below).O  > Thanks in advance for any help  , > $> mount/for mkc400                       2 > %MOUNT-I-OPRQSTCAN, operator request canceled   2 > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked      @ > $> backup/list/rewind mkc400:/sav                             F > Listing of save set(s)                                              F >                                                                     F > %BACKUP-F-LABELERR, error in tape label processing on MKC400:[0000002 > -BACKUP-F-NOTANSI, tape is not valid ANSI format  G DLT IV tapes can be written at three different data densities dependingeG on the drive.  They are 20 GB, 35 GB and 40 GB uncompressed capacities.yF If your drive only goes up to 35 GB, a tape written at 40 GB will not D be readable.  Depending on the firmware, some of the 40/80 GB drivesE can write at the lower DLT IV capacities.  The tapes would need to beAF initialised on the other server at the lower density and then written.   Joe Heimannr   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:24:44 GMTo' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>o  Subject: FREE VAXstation 4000-60+ Message-ID: <3E516FF4.8FBADB06@pacbell.net>o  H If anyone has an interest in the following old system, let me know ASAP.B I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this.  ,   Hardware........:       VAXstation 4000-60&   Operating System:       VMS Ver.V6.1   *Full License set*   Main Memory (32.00Mb)    h   2-RZ56 (1299174 blocks each)   1-RZ55 (649040 blocks)   1-RZ24 (409792 blocks)	   2-TK50Za   1-RD40	   1-TLZ04r"   1-VRT19DA (VT200 style RGB sync)     Includes All cablesb     -- i   Have VMS, Will Travela Wire paladin, San Francisco,   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:43:45 GMTe' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>e$ Subject: Re: FREE VAXstation 4000-60+ Message-ID: <3E527FA5.9280D46B@pacbell.net>    John Santos wrote: > ' > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Don Sykes wrote:  >  > > L > > If anyone has an interest in the following old system, let me know ASAP.F > > I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this. > > 0 > >   Hardware........:       VAXstation 4000-60* > >   Operating System:       VMS Ver.V6.1 > >   *Full License set* > >   Main Memory (32.00Mb)n" > >   2-RZ56 (1299174 blocks each) > >   1-RZ55 (649040 blocks) > >   1-RZ24 (409792 blocks)
 > >   2-TK50Ze > >   1-RD40
 > >   1-TLZ04r& > >   1-VRT19DA (VT200 style RGB sync) > >a > >   Includes All cabless > >c > >a > > -- > >i > > Have VMS, Will Travel  > > Wire paladin, San Franciscor > >I > > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom) > 8 > Is this system in San Francisco, as your .sig implies? > > > If it's in the Greater Boston area, I would be interested... >  Sorry, it is very near SF.   -- :   Have VMS, Will Travely Wire paladin, San Franciscol   (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:53:28 GMTs' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> $ Subject: Re: FREE VAXstation 4000-60+ Message-ID: <3E5281EC.FFBFCCEB@pacbell.net>p  H There's been a lot of interest in this. Had I known that there would be,H I may have asked $$ for it! But it was free to me when I worked for DEC, so... good karma and all that.   Anyway, as to your FAQ's: F - Local people will have presidence, if they will come and pick it up.> - You must be willing to take ALL the components, cables, etc. - EOM means End Of Month6 - My email addr is "cleverly" buried in my signature:)   Don Sykes wrote: > J > If anyone has an interest in the following old system, let me know ASAP.D > I have to be out of my office by EOM and have nowhere to put this. > . >   Hardware........:       VAXstation 4000-60( >   Operating System:       VMS Ver.V6.1 >   *Full License set* >   Main Memory (32.00Mb)o  >   2-RZ56 (1299174 blocks each) >   1-RZ55 (649040 blocks) >   1-RZ24 (409792 blocks) >   2-TK50Z 
 >   1-RD40 >   1-TLZ04 $ >   1-VRT19DA (VT200 style RGB sync) >  >   Includes All cablesc >  > -- >  > Have VMS, Will TravelN > Wire paladin, San Franciscor >  > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:35:22 -0500a$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>1 Subject: FW: Just wondering how everyone is doingoJ Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492B012@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com ' > [mailto:susan_skonetski@hotmail.com] a* > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:16 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComA/ > Subject: Just wondering how everyone is doingt >  >  > Dear Newsgroup,  > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.F >   < Near Baltimore, MD, we got about 28".  The carport collapsed: from the weight and crushed my mother's car.  No injuries.6 Pictures coming, as soon as I can get myself back over there with the camera.  3 I'm sure I don't have the only story like this one.o    > Please take care of your self. > 
 > Big hug, >  > Sue  >o   Thanks, Sue.   -Mike Duffys  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:32:35 +0530p4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> Subject: GCC for VMSI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260EC3781@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>E   Hello folks,J 1. I would like to know if there is a site where I can download the latestH version of GCC for OpenVMS Alpha. I am using VMS  7.3 on a DS10, (EV67).  L I could not find a GCC binary for VMS on GNU's site. Please can anyone pointA me the URL? If not is there any other free C++ compiler for VMS? o  B 2. Where can I find a HTML link to down load Hunter Goatley's MMK?   Any help will be appreciated	 Cheers...w keshav7 +-----------------------------------------------------+ 0 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            0 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  1 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             f0 	U.P, INDIA                                     6                                                       0 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          0 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    5       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS          l7 +-----------------------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:57:00 +0100t6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: GCC for VMS) Message-ID: <3E5273EC.6070105@vajhoej.dk>h   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:  > Hello folks,L > 1. I would like to know if there is a site where I can download the latestJ > version of GCC for OpenVMS Alpha. I am using VMS  7.3 on a DS10, (EV67). > N > I could not find a GCC binary for VMS on GNU's site. Please can anyone pointC > me the URL? If not is there any other free C++ compiler for VMS? r  2 That may not be so simple to get working properly.  / A copy of the old PROGIS stuff is available at:c0    ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/gcc-for-alpha/  D > 2. Where can I find a HTML link to down load Hunter Goatley's MMK?  8 http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MMK  E BTW, I just think Hunter is distributing it  - Matt Madison wrote it.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:02:50 GMTL7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)= Subject: Re: GCC for VMS? Message-ID: <ezu4a.164173$HN5.698001@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>-   In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260EC3781@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:
 >Hello folks,-K >1. I would like to know if there is a site where I can download the latestdI >version of GCC for OpenVMS Alpha. I am using VMS  7.3 on a DS10, (EV67).s > M >I could not find a GCC binary for VMS on GNU's site. Please can anyone point B >me the URL? If not is there any other free C++ compiler for VMS?  > C >2. Where can I find a HTML link to down load Hunter Goatley's MMK?    From the process.com web site:  8 http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MMK   >o >Any help will be appreciatedi
 >Cheers... >keshavo8 >+-----------------------------------------------------+1 >	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            t1 >	E9 - E12, SDF                                  i2 >	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             1 >	U.P, INDIA                                     e7 >                                                       1 >	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          R1 >	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    26 >      Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS          8 >+-----------------------------------------------------+  A _________________________________________________________________K0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"E   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:15:05 +0100D6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>* Subject: Re: GNU Patch for OpenVMS (again)) Message-ID: <3E523FE9.3020302@vajhoej.dk>S   Robert Sundstrm wrote: P > A few weeks ago I asked about a proper distribution of Gnu Patch for OpenVMS. I > Thanks to Craig Barry who directed me to the OpenVMS Freeware website.   > M > Unfortunately, when I use that Patch I get new line breaks inserted in the 9J > destination file. The new line breaks appears to be inserted at regular I > intervals so I searched the source for a buffer whose size would match  L > the intervals but at no immediate success. Before I try harder, is anyone  > familiar with this problem?   C I have a diff/patch set that works fine with RCS and has so throughB many years.   B I can make the code available for download if you are interested !   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 07:18:09 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)*@ Subject: Re: Heads Up - Next OpenVMS Advanced Technical Bootcamp= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0302170718.4836fb95@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   C If you have suggestions on what you would like to see please let mea2 know, either in this notes stream or send me mail.  
 Warm Regards,I SueT    v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0302121642.4d3c4195@posting.google.com>...H > Previously known as the OpenVMS Symposium will be the week of November > 10th 2003. > H > We do not have an agenda yet but I wanted to give you the dates.  Some > of the changes.  > E > This one will be four days Tues-Friday, we had feedback that 3 daysP > was not long enough.! > We will be doing more hands on.t) > It will be at the Sheraton in Nashua NH  > B > This is all I know so far, we will update the web as we get more > information. >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 14:59:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems6 Message-ID: <b2qtd5$1amp37$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <r3PhEhh5xijf@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > P >                                                                I know, I know,M > Solaris users love Solaris, but they don't love Solaris prices.  And with a7F > falling market share, Sun can't afford to make Solaris any cheaper.  > B > 	Interestingly enough, perhaps the same analysis applies to AIX. >   F Interestingly enough, perhaps the same analysis applies to HPUX, Tru64 and OpenVMS.   bill   -- 5J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 17:56:16 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems6 Message-ID: <b2r7nu$1g5d1p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-NnjfyhcxFTNB@localhost>,T0 	djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes:F > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 05:03:19 UTC, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  > wrote: > " >> OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM >  > I like that. >    Even if it's not true??   ! VMS didn't come about until 1978.D  ? The various PDP-11 OSes predated it and all had .COM's as well.M As did CPM in 1974.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   S   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 19:43:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems6 Message-ID: <b2re0l$1fjr24$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <PI2FQ4UWdeUZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,Y> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c > In article <b2r7nu$1g5d1p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:W >> RB >> The various PDP-11 OSes predated it and all had .COM's as well. >> As did CPM in 1974. > , >    I don't remember using .COM on RSX-11M. >   G OK, you got me on that one.  Looks like RSX called them .CMD files. :-)39 (I was never much of an RSX person.  Much prefered RSTS.)H  0 But that hardly detracts from the comment above.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   C   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 06:47:19 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)0D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-ldg0drESz63f@localhost>H  F On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:40:01 UTC, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 2 > news:b2r7nu$1g5d1p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...9 > > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-NnjfyhcxFTNB@localhost>, 3 > > djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: 5 > > > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 05:03:19 UTC, "Main, Kerry"  > <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  > > > wrote: > > >7& > > >> OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM > > >1 > > > I like that. > > >  > >  > > Even if it's not true??  > >  > ? > To paraphrase.......Truth is the first casualty of marketing.s  C Exactly - it is a marketing slogan. As for truth, well others have  F pointed out that RSX and its DEC contemporaries used .CMD for command D procedures. The only other area of contention is which came first : F DCL .COM or CP/M .COM - definitely _not_ MS-DOS .COM. I'm not aware ofF any other OS's that use the extension in a standardised way. There mayE well be some but that's where the marketing comes back in, I suppose.C   -- L Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:01:00 +0100C6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems) Message-ID: <3E524AAC.5070305@vajhoej.dk>3   Andreas Davour wrote:O, > Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:> > If you didn't know, I can tell you that since Sun had such a3 > block header attityde towards opening up Java to !? > standardisation developers of Free Software have implemented :> > their own JVM and base classes. What Sun have is a expensive> > thing they call Enterprise Java, which isn't worth all that  > money anyway.:   ????  
 J2EE is free.   A J2EE is really some PDF documents that you can download free fromo= Sun and a Reference Implementation you can download free fromM	 Sun also.T  > Then there are a bunch of products implementing that standard.< Some commercial some free. Some of the commercial are rather8 expensive (15K$ per CPU is seen) other are rather cheap.  8 Both some of the commercial and at least one of the free run on VMS.d  < > Don't you worry about Java, it's being taken care of, now  > it's Free.   ????  - Java has not become either more or less free.1  9 Sun and JCP has rigths and anyone making something called * Java has to follow they specs the put out.  ! Microsoft was told that in court.L   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:34:08 +0100V6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems' Message-ID: <3E525270.70309@vajhoej.dk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:? > And how can Enteprise Java be expensive since we don't charge ? > for the implimetation its free for Solaris, Windows and LinuxH > from the www.java.com   = I assume you are talking about Sun ONE Application Server 7 ?N  & And strictly speaking it is not free !  / There are some free versions but there are alsoH versions that cost money.    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 15:38:42 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems6 Message-ID: <b2tk22$1g47dg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  6 In article <1030217201504.15004B-100000@ives.egh.com>,# 	John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  >>  I >> RSTS called them .CMD files, too.  (Until RSTS got DCL, which was long H >> after VMS.)  Also, I'm pretty sure VMS was available (field test, pre >> V1.0) in 1977.1 > D > Thinking some more, I'm pretty sure they were .CTL files under theC > original RSTS batch package, and .CMD files with ATPK, which only . > arrived with RSTS/E V8.0, about 1979-1980... > C > System startup used .CTL files as well.  I don't remember if this3A > was standard procedure, but I think we always set our START.CTL B > to just run ATPK and execute START.CMD under it.  This gave us aD > log and better control.  With V9.0, everything was DCL and .COM's, > but this was much later.  E OK, I don't have any documentation old enough to verify it one way or E the other.  So we will concede that .COM came to RSTS later than VMS.    >  >>  $ >> Was CP/M really around in 1974?     From a history of Gary Kildall:   D       "Gary had been doing his consulting and development work underG        the name "MAA," or "Microcomputer Applications Associates." MAA LB        (that is, Kildall) completed CP/M in 1974. It was a spartan4         system, containing only what was essential."  A >>                                 I thought the original articleT? >> about building your own computer using an 8008(?) in Popular]& >> Electronics(?) was in Jan/Feb 1975,  C You have the date right, but are confused on some of the rest.  The C machine was called The Altair 8800 and it used an 8080 cpu.  It wasTF hardly the first microcomputer, but it was the first one that actuallyE targeted "computer hobbyists" a genre that didn't really exist up til1B the point.  As a matter of fact, it was not even the only computerB offered by Altair.  The also sold the Altair 680 at the same time.D This was a machine based on the M6800.  Southwest Technical ProductsA Also offered a M6800 based machine The SWTPC-6800 at least a year4E before the Popular electronics article or MITS/Altair started selling]D their machines. (Just as a matter of curiosity, I still have my copy of that magazine!)   >> and the various O/S (CP/M,1  B Originally, the Altair (and yes, even the Imsai) had no concept ofA any kind of storage outside of (very limited) memory and thus the;& idea of "DOS" would have been foreign.  . >> DR-DOS, etc.) followed a year or two later.  7 DR-DOS was a PCDOS/MSDOS clone and came long afterward.I  > So, we still have RT-11 and CP/M having .COM before VMS making them hardly "the first .COM".L   bill  E -- PJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   L   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:00:46 +0100L6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems) Message-ID: <3E5274CE.6060600@vajhoej.dk>H  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > Arne Vajhj wrote:@ >> I assume you are talking about Sun ONE Application Server 7 ? > 7 > No I am talking about Java 2 Enterprise Edition whichE
 > is free.  . J2EE Reference Implementation is in my opinion3 not worth much as a server (and is as far as I knowL not intended to be so either).  0 Library and docs are fine. But somehow I got the5 impression that the original poster was talking aboutM servers.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:12:10 -0500L  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems6 Message-ID: <1030217180353.15004D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 17 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <PI2FQ4UWdeUZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s@ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > > In article <b2r7nu$1g5d1p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > >>  D > >> The various PDP-11 OSes predated it and all had .COM's as well. > >> As did CPM in 1974. > > . > >    I don't remember using .COM on RSX-11M. > >  > I > OK, you got me on that one.  Looks like RSX called them .CMD files. :-);; > (I was never much of an RSX person.  Much prefered RSTS.)I > 2 > But that hardly detracts from the comment above. >  > bill    F RSTS called them .CMD files, too.  (Until RSTS got DCL, which was longE after VMS.)  Also, I'm pretty sure VMS was available (field test, preE V1.0) in 1977.  ? Was CP/M really around in 1974?  I thought the original articleF< about building your own computer using an 8008(?) in Popular> Electronics(?) was in Jan/Feb 1975, and the various O/S (CP/M,+ DR-DOS, etc.) followed a year or two later.E   -- 1 John SantosO Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:23:29 +0000M' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems. Message-ID: <3E527A21.8070802@nospamn.sun.com>   Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >=20 >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:  >>A >>> I assume you are talking about Sun ONE Application Server 7 ?  >> >>8 >> No I am talking about Java 2 Enterprise Edition which >> is free.. >=20 >=200 > J2EE Reference Implementation is in my opinion5 > not worth much as a server (and is as far as I know1  > not intended to be so either). >=202 > Library and docs are fine. But somehow I got the7 > impression that the original poster was talking about 
 > servers. >=20  * No he was just talking about a JVM and its- patently obvious that apart from the standard ( free J2 platform and enterprise editions& both available for free from Sun there# are no complete platform edition orI* enterprise edition implimetation available as OpenSource.     Regards3 Andrew HarrisonH   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:39:17 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>, Subject: RE: hp invite to CeBIT mentions VMS0 Message-ID: <01C2D73A.106A6B80@sulfer.icius.com>   >Paul Sture wrote: >> C> >> CeBIT trade show (Hanover, Germany  - March 12th-19th 2003) >> T" >> The hp invite mentions OpenVMS! >> Y
 >>  [snip] >> >U? >The news of the port to Itanium was on the frontpage of Dutch s< >weekly Computable. For those who want to see it, a scan is C >at http://home.wanadoo.nl/erens/openvms/computable01.jpg (135 kb).H >The article itself is at : 8 >http://www.computable.nl/artikels/archief3/d07jb3lx.htm >I >--  >MEU  F I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that the Itanium port may beH one of the best things to come along for VMS in some time. Not that I'veE magically gained any faith in the chip - I won't go over that again -MD but because it's caused more news stories in public forums, and moreF pictures in the press than Digital/Compaq/HP marketing have managed inF the previous five years. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if my IntelE marketing money theory may be more than the joke I intended it to be.L   Shane   ? P.S. Totally OT, nothing to do with the thread, but very funny:r& http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 12:24:31 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)9N Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market3 Message-ID: <weaRAWRQrj2B@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3E5253BD.8000102@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > G >>         2 or 3 more rounds of Itanium to turn the tables.  Here is aN" >>         hint of things to come: >>  6 >> http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0107sgirelea.html >> AN >> The entry-level Altix 3300 server starts at US$70,176 in the U.S. with four' >> processors and 32G bytes of memory.   >>  " >>         That is a sweet spot.   >> LP >>         Now we can dig about and have a good pissy back and forth on pricing. >>  P >>         Here is IBM, one of their latest, we see that they list 64 GBytes of - >>         RAM for a high-end box at $241000:C >> I > H > Seems a lot we list 64 GB of RAM for any of the larger Sun Fire server/ > up to and including the F15K for 96K dollars.. >   B 	That's good.  IBM is obviously taking a different approach.  TheyG 	are using memory to subsidize their CPU prices.  Sun isn't subsidizingL7 	their CPU prices, they just charge a boatload per CPU:E  O http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/Sun/sun.fire15K.3tb.021003.es.pdf   / 	$2.9 million for 72 CPUs and 288 GByte memory.C  B 	Now granted, that's a bit stale.  But Sun has no version 2.0 tpmH= 	numbers and it is quite difficult (more and more so) to find ? 	public numbers.  Of course you can go out to Sun and find listA< 	prices, but it is tricky to reverse engineer those numbers.@ 	A quick take shows 96 GByte additional memory and 20 additionalF 	CPUs has the E15K system cost go from $1.25 million to $1.89 million.C 	So it seems Sun CPU prices are coming down to around $25000 or so.s  A > Incedentally don't get too excited about the Altix it may spoila> > the HP party after all if your claims about Itanium are true> > then the Altix is faster than a 64 way SuperDome and HP wantE > rather more than 3 million for a 64 way Dome and no one is going tob= > be happy in the HP camp if thy have to kiss over half theirg% > revenue away by going with itanium.m  > 	But you are highlighting the obvious.  High-end server prices= 	must come down.  If the most expensive Itanium is $4000 froml@ 	Intel, it is hard to justify turning around and charging $25000? 	for that same CPU.  Especially as it approaches commodity and o( 	7 or more OEMs are selling it in a box.   > : > Incedentally HP want 800K for a 16 way rp8400 with 64 GB9 > mid range server so if the Altix pricing is linear then5C > you can get a 16 way Altix for 280K ouch ouch ouch but then thatsl > the Itanium market for you.  >   - 	YES!  High-end server prices must come down.f  : > Not that the Altix looks that interesting for commercial9 > workloads. The only commercial benchmark that they haven5 > run on the Altix 3000 shows a 3.25x speedup with 28d* > CPU's when compared with a 4 way system. > 8 > On I/O it currently does ~1 GB/s RAW reads using XSCSI5 > something like a factor of 12 less than a F15K does29 > through the filesystem and using Oracle on a full tableg7 > scan. This may give you some idea of how far Linux isu > away from a commercial UNIX. >   9 	Yep.  And at one time a Sun box was actually the fastest ' 	workstation out there.  Things change.a   				Robe    oB Men with walkie-talkie                  I'm home again to you babeC Men with flashlights waving             You know it makes me wonder G Up upon the tower                       Sittin' in the quiet slipstream > The clock reads daylight savin'         Rollin' in the thunder  -                                 -- Neil Youngs   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 21:01:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ... 6 Message-ID: <b2rija$1frfug$8@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  0 In article <3e4e519a.231164039@news.eircom.net>,3 	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:dH > On 12 Feb 2003 13:15:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > C >>IBM wasn't even wrong on that.  Originally it was supposed to be tD >>M68K based.  The decision to go with INTEL was a strictly businessB >>decision knowing full well it was a bad technical decision.  TheA >>fact that going into this IBM knew the worse (worst?) choice ofn@ >>CPU had been made makes it even more of an accomplishment that) >>they made it the success it has become.. > E > Though in the long run, x86 turned out to be better than 68k; given1G > that those were the only candidates, they chose what turned out to bew > the best available CPU.a >   C And you don't think that all that money that poured in when IBM putn= x86 on every desktop might not have had an influence on this?0  C There is no way to know where the M68K would have gone if Motorolla C had had the benefit of all that money to fuel development.  For oneuA thing, it probably would not have required a completely differento3 architecture when the time came to move to 64 bits.    bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:37:29 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)- Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5 years ...c0 Message-ID: <3e5155c2.157070835@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 21:01:30 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  D >There is no way to know where the M68K would have gone if Motorolla; >had had the benefit of all that money to fuel development.i  C According to the guys who design chips for a living, the answer is:BF not as far as x86, the instruction set is inherently more difficult to make run fast.   >For oneB >thing, it probably would not have required a completely different4 >architecture when the time came to move to 64 bits.    Well, neither does x86 really :)   -- t3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacei   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:09:46 -0800-5 From: Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu>mQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly62 Message-ID: <3E50446A.5839564E@cits1.stanford.edu>   rmk@rmkhome.com wrote:K > In alt.folklore.computers David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:mT > > ..when it constantly crashes, causes them to reboot, re-install (the entire o.s. > > for shit sake!), etc. ...  > * > And becomes infected on a regular basis.  G You know, my Windows machine seems to get rebooted about twice a month,eG almost always because I've turned it off to muck with the hardware, but G sometimes for software installations or power outages.  I've not neededrA to reinstall the operating system, and it hasn't ever had a virus G infestation for my virus-checker to stop.  And I'm fairly sure that then sky is blue on my planet.   B My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of theG problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the competenceeF of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any otherE OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.  All it would:F take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as root".... E And a .bashrc-infecting virus shouldn't be that hard to make, either;> who'd notice it?   - Brooks   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:30:35 GMTB' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>aQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ) Message-ID: <3E50A60C.6DDD3DF2@yahoo.com>a   Russell Wallace wrote: >  ... snip ... > F > Now I think it would be better if there was a standard API such thatD > companies could produce independent but compatible implementationsF > of it (the way Intel and AMD compete on implementations of x86). ButD > unfortunately the computer industry never produced such a thing or< > even showed the slightest interest in attempting to do so.  > There are international standards for C, Pascal, Ada, Fortran,A C++, and others.  Programs written to the standards are portable, ? and most programs can be so written if you are willing to forgon the whiz-bangs.s  B However it seems to me that once the hardware differs, so must the= capabilities.  So there will always be non-portable programs.s   -- e< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.t:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:30:37 GMTa' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>nQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr) Message-ID: <3E50A7DC.2E14720C@yahoo.com>    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >  ... snip ... > > > ROTFLMAO.  Beautifully put.  You might add the qualification= > that you want to read the documents written in 1990 (forgetr > about 1980).  > I have no problems with almost anything written in 1980 - theyA were saved as text.  If I wrote them in 1990 they were also savedAB as text.  If I write them today they are saved as text.  However I@ do have problems accessing things saved on 8" SSSD floppy media, or any flavor of mag tape.   --  < Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. :    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:51:53 -0000,D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 2 Message-ID: <1045486300.187433@saucer.planet.gong>  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in messagel* news:3e50ce3d.122373091@news.eircom.net...5 > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:41:11 -0000, "Rupert Pigott"p7 > <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:4 >-> > >Oh, you mean SVR4, BSD & Linux ? All of them "multi-vendor"& > >all of them present a standard API. > G > The various Linux distros aren't independent implementations (most of4G > the code in them comes from the same original source) - but yes, theyRE > do come closer than anyone except Microsoft has ever come before to A > solving this problem, which is exactly why Linux is becoming so 
 > successful.I  6 Sigh, you appear to have glossed over SVR4 and BSD. :/  4 Oh and Linux distro's very definately do not all use4 the exact same source base. Being picky, I know, but4 they don't all use the exact same set of dot-revs or0 even patches. Hell, in some cases their userland2 compilers use a different ABI (remember the RH GCC issue ?)...e   Cheers,3 Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:55:53 -00000D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt1 Message-ID: <1045486540.22550@saucer.planet.gong>.  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in message * news:3e50d135.123132878@news.eircom.net...   [SNIP]  A > Personally I think governments are a far bigger problem for ourtF > industry than any corporation, no matter what it did, could ever be.F > Corporations, however big, can't send armed men around to your house0 > to kick in your door; governments can, and do.  5 Two points which are clearly demonstratable in moderni American politics :.7 1) Candidates require corporate sponsorship of one kind  or another to attain office.8 2) Companies have managed to use their influence to sway8 governments into action. There was a strong hint of that5 (for example) with tricky Dicky & Kissenger in Chile.    Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:38:16 GMTi0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly30 Message-ID: <3e5101b4.135549904@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 13:39:53 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> wrote:  D >The point is not teh various linux distros, but linux, the BSDs and8 >the SVR4 compliant unix versions from several vendors.   6 Which aren't compatible with each other, last I heard.  & >By the way, do you know about posix ?  C Yes, it makes porting easier, but Posix-compliant operating systemsr) are still not compatible with each other.w   -- g3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."1+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.b! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:39:51 GMTt0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e5101fc.135621526@news.eircom.net>  3 On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:51:53 -0000, "Rupert Pigott",5 <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:   7 >Sigh, you appear to have glossed over SVR4 and BSD. :/:  F Because they're not compatible with Linux last I heard, so they aren't solutions to the problem.   5 >Oh and Linux distro's very definately do not all usec5 >the exact same source base. Being picky, I know, buti5 >they don't all use the exact same set of dot-revs orC1 >even patches. Hell, in some cases their userland(3 >compilers use a different ABI (remember the RH GCCU >issue ?)...  ? You're not being picky at all; this is a serious flaw in Linux.c   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply.e! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace-   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:41:19 GMTT0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e510275.135742199@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> wrote:  % >You do know about X Windows, do you?5  E Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butMD last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the sameA operating system let alone be compatible with different operating0 systems.   -- ?3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."c+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.0! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacew   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:18:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)AQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo3 Message-ID: <sRWyxiewE8Z9@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <3e510275.135742199@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:gH > On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> > wrote: > & >>You do know about X Windows, do you? > G > Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butsF > last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the sameC > operating system let alone be compatible with different operating-
 > systems.  B    I've been using it for over a decade and have not seen any such    problem.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:55:46 GMT90 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya0 Message-ID: <3e512fce.147353509@news.eircom.net>  C On 17 Feb 2003 07:37:56 -0900, Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net>s wrote:  = >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:6e >>In article <3e510275.135742199@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:IJ >>> On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>
 >>> wrote: >>> ( >>>>You do know about X Windows, do you? >>> I >>> Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butMH >>> last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the sameE >>> operating system let alone be compatible with different operating  >>> systems. >>D >>   I've been using it for over a decade and have not seen any such
 >>   problem.   B You should talk to the Linux advocates then, they seem to think it exists.   F >I've seen X interoperating on a WAN that included Mac's, VMS, WinNT4,H >AIX, and Linux machines.  I would challenge Mr. Wallace to suggest what >is going to compete with that?   D In practice for most companies the solution that competes with it isB just standardizing on Microsoft Windows on the desktop. (With someA organizations choosing to standardize on all Linux on the desktop 	 instead.)A   -- S3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."-+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.5! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacen   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:11:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr6 Message-ID: <b2rflr$1frfug$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  0 In article <3e4ebc62.258504087@news.eircom.net>,3 	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:n; > On 15 Feb 2003 12:59:08 -0500, pechter@shell.monmouth.com  > (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) wrote:d > F >>IBM seemed to want to be the biggest and strongest computer company.I >>IBM seemed to want to be the leader and the standard.  I feel MicrosoftdF >>won't give up until EVERY piece of computing machine (including your4 >>car and toaster) boots and runs a Windows varient. > E > It doesn't matter who wants what or who feels what. The reason it's!F > vastly preferable to have Microsoft instead of IBM or anyone else as6 > #1 is very simple: *Microsoft don't sell computers*.  G Not sure that's true.  I thought MS ventured into the hardware businessgC but decided there wasn't enough money there to be worth the effort.g   >  > How quickly people forget. w  
 So true......e  H >                            Before the rise of Microsoft, you bought an? > IBM machine running an IBM operating system and then you weree) > restricted to IBM-compatible software. 2  F I seem to remember a company called Loral(?)_ that made IBM compatableH hardware (and yes, I mean IBM Mainframes.)  And then, of course, we also have Amdahl UTS on IBM systems.   H >                                        Or you bought a VAX running VMSC > and then you were restricted to software compatible with that. Ore  M Or you ran Ultrix, BSD or even System V on your VAX and a wealth of packages. F I still have a copy of the sourcebook around here somewhere.  Same was true of the PDP-11.R   > Apple, Commodore,   C Apple and Commodore were toys.  They were very late comers into thel? serious computer world.  S-100 systems by people/companies likeo@ Dr. Godbout were doing real work on micros when the two wannabes+ above were still just competing with Atari.h  8 >                   Data General, Acorn, Wang, etc etc.   G Never worked with DG or Acorn, Wang had a pretty strong office presence 9 but I never knew anyone who was actually happy using one.r  I >                                                        The industry was > > fragmented into a zillion closed, proprietary platforms, allH > incompatible with each other, all sold by companies who behaved not asG > though they had X% market share, but as though they had a monopoly on 
 > that X%.  B But there were also standards and a large number of companies that worked with them.  a  E And then there was CP/M.  Which ran on a wealth of different machinescD (Xerox-820, Kaypro, Osborne, Tandy, etc.) and had quite an impresiveI collection of packages including the first really popular word processor.T   > H > Now you can buy an industry standard PC from whatever manufacturer youE > please, load Windows on it (for a definitely _non_ monopoly price),8G > and mostly just not have to worry about compatibility issues. But youTF > don't like Windows? Fine, take that same standard PC and load Linux,B > BSD, OS/2, BeOS etc etc etc, whatever takes your fancy. You toldD > someone 20 years ago you'd be able to do that in 20 years time andE > he'd think that was a miracle that made gigahertz chips look like a- > trivial achievement. > H > People tend not to respect what they have, but I'd really like to takeF > the people who complain incessantly about "Micro$oft sucks" and makeH > them spend a year in a parallel universe where _any_ other company had > won the #1 spot. n  D I would take that.  I have worked with literally dozens of alternateF OSes that would have been an improvement i fthey had dominated instead of MS.  E >                    I guarantee you when they came back, 90% of them 8 > would be making pilgrimages to Redmond on their knees.  > Only if the only food in that parallel universe was laced with LSD.   bill e   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyu6 Message-ID: <b2rgin$1frfug$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  / In article <3e4fc740.55037260@news.eircom.net>,i3 	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  > H > Maybe. Though I doubt they'd have stood up to Apple's attempt to get aH > legally enforced monopoly on graphic user interfaces the way Microsoft5 > did. (And compared to Apple, Microsoft are saints.)G  D Read the history again.  If Apple had succeeded Xerox was sitting inG the wings waiting to use the exact same legal argument to squash Apple.jE Apple was in a loose-loose situation and settled as the only solutionh. that didn't have disaster written all over it.  D > I disagree, I think it is. Or would you rather go back to the daysC > when anytime you saw a program you'd like to buy, 80% of the timecG > you'd have to forget about it because it was for a machine you didn't  > own?  @ You spent too much time with that Commodore 64.  You should have? had a real computer instead.  There were lot's of them and they @ were standards based, shared hardware, ran the OSes and even the6 same applications although most users wrote their own.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:38:29 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye6 Message-ID: <b2rh85$1frfug$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  * In article <m3isvjjcye.fsf@elgin.eder.de>,0 	Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> writes:4 > rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes: > F >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:30:35 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>	 >> wrote:o >>  B >> >There are international standards for C, Pascal, Ada, Fortran,E >> >C++, and others.  Programs written to the standards are portable,dC >> >and most programs can be so written if you are willing to forgo  >> >the whiz-bangs.  >>  I >> Only for command line utilities; it's been a long time since there wasn >> a market for those. >> rC > You do know about X Windows, do you? It has been here for over 10e	 > years. D  A Now there's an understatement.  The MIT-Athena Project that begatl6 X-Windows dates to 1984.  I make that almost 20 years.   bill   -- bJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:42:26 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 6 Message-ID: <b2rhfh$1frfug$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  0 In article <3e512fce.147353509@news.eircom.net>,3 	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:0 > K >>>> On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>  >>>> wrote:o >>>> a) >>>>>You do know about X Windows, do you?5 >>>> 0J >>>> Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butI >>>> last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the same F >>>> operating system let alone be compatible with different operating
 >>>> systems.t >>>gE >>>   I've been using it for over a decade and have not seen any sucho >>>   problem. > D > You should talk to the Linux advocates then, they seem to think it	 > exists.-  H Well, that explains it.  Most of us here were talking about professionalF computing and not this "brave new world" where any kid with a PC is anF operating systems engineer. Considering the actual level of experienceD and knowledge of the average Limux user I'm amazed they ever get the machines to run at all.h   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   d   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:46:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt6 Message-ID: <b2rhnk$1frfug$5@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ) In article <3E4F5D5A.38DCA021@yahoo.com>,u, 	Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: > Russell Wallace wrote: >>  < >> On 15 Feb 2003 12:59:08 -0500, pechter@shell.monmouth.com  >> (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) wrote: >> eH >> >IBM seemed to want to be the biggest and strongest computer company.K >> >IBM seemed to want to be the leader and the standard.  I feel Microsoft H >> >won't give up until EVERY piece of computing machine (including your6 >> >car and toaster) boots and runs a Windows varient. >>  F >> It doesn't matter who wants what or who feels what. The reason it'sG >> vastly preferable to have Microsoft instead of IBM or anyone else asl7 >> #1 is very simple: *Microsoft don't sell computers*.  >> tI >> How quickly people forget. Before the rise of Microsoft, you bought an8@ >> IBM machine running an IBM operating system and then you were* >> restricted to IBM-compatible software.  > G > Okay, so now I have this Sun I want to run Office on, no problem, eh?c  E No problem at all unless by Office you really meant Microsoft Office.aC Naturally one would expect problems running an application that waseD deliberately designed to be incompatable. (Anyone here know what theD first thing MS did to Visio was when they bought it? The removed allG compatability with the non-MS versions of the program that the originald company had been selling.)  E Now, if you just meant an Office Suite then there are at least three,iC one of which comes from Sun and may in fact even ship with Solaris.a   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:48:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 6 Message-ID: <b2rhq8$1frfug$6@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ) In article <3E50A7DC.2E14720C@yahoo.com>,a* 	CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> writes: > @ > I have no problems with almost anything written in 1980 - theyC > were saved as text.  If I wrote them in 1990 they were also saved>D > as text.  If I write them today they are saved as text.  However IB > do have problems accessing things saved on 8" SSSD floppy media, > or any flavor of mag tape. >    Some of us don't  :-)r   bill   -- gJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   .   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 20:50:59 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr6 Message-ID: <b2rhvj$1frfug$7@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  / In article <3e4fbf26.52963062@news.eircom.net>,a3 	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:oG > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:24:51 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>  > wrote: > G >>Okay, so now I have this Sun I want to run Office on, no problem, eh?  > F > Buy Sun's incompatible proprietary hardware, looks like you're stuck$ > with running Sun's office package. >   C What's wrong with that?  I thought the argument was about predatory.D proprietary companies?  Actually, at least two of the current non-MSF Office Suites I have used (including the one from Sun) have no problemD dealing with reading and writing MS Office files.  Even when MS goesH out of it's way to break compatability with even it's own older versions of software.   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:10:38 GMT40 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e514f0b.155351977@news.eircom.net>  C On 17 Feb 2003 10:51:12 -0900, Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net>n wrote:  > >That would be nice... except there is no version of Microsoft> >Windows which can run the massive alarm and monitoring systemA >nor the large trouble ticket system that the dual VMS systems ons@ >that WAN run.  Nor will any Unix or VMS run the office software> >that had been selected as standard (hence the WinNT4), and no? >non-commercial Unix system was able to run the particular dataS? >base and remote testing facility that the AIX boxes have.  TheJ> >Mac's and the Linux boxes just happened to be comfortable for  >the set of users that had them. >iA >Simply put, Microsoft Windows *cannot* compete with the existing  >setup.t  E *nods* For that setup, I guess you're right, though most companies ateE least go as far as to standardize on Unix (or maybe VMS or OS/400) on & the server and Windows on the desktop.   -- i3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."r+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.a! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacer   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:11:08 GMTl0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolym0 Message-ID: <3e514fe1.155565626@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 20:42:26 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  I >Well, that explains it.  Most of us here were talking about professionalrG >computing and not this "brave new world" where any kid with a PC is ansG >operating systems engineer. Considering the actual level of experiencetE >and knowledge of the average Limux user I'm amazed they ever get the  >machines to run at all.   Heh, okay :)   -- .3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."/+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.h! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacet   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:24:38 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e515210.156124231@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 20:50:59 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  0 >In article <3e4fbf26.52963062@news.eircom.net>,4 >	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:G >> Buy Sun's incompatible proprietary hardware, looks like you're stuckl% >> with running Sun's office package.u >e >What's wrong with that?  * Nothing, if you're happy with Star Office.  + >I thought the argument was about predatory0 >proprietary companies?e  C Not from my side it isn't. My argument all along has been preciselypC that whether you want to say one company or another is "predatory",aE "evil", "a monopoly" etc etc (in practice, those labels are earned byaE being successful, not by being nasty) isn't what really matters. WhatIC matters is that it's much better to have a standard than a bunch ofc= incompatible proprietary systems. (If it happens to be a goodtD standard, so much the better. If it doesn't, it's still a lot better than none at all.)  p -- s3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply.a! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacea   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:30:45 GMTs0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyf0 Message-ID: <3e515441.156685619@news.eircom.net>  F On 17 Feb 2003 20:11:40 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  F >And then there was CP/M.  Which ran on a wealth of different machinesE >(Xerox-820, Kaypro, Osborne, Tandy, etc.) and had quite an impresivegJ >collection of packages including the first really popular word processor.  F Now CP/M I'll grant you. I never used it, but from what I've heard, it9 did a good job of being the unifying standard of its day.n   -- o3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."a+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.u! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacel   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:44:17 -0800k5 From: Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu>lQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye2 Message-ID: <3E5157B1.9EEE18A5@cits1.stanford.edu>   Andreas Eder wrote:y9 > Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu> writes: K > > You know, my Windows machine seems to get rebooted about twice a month, K > > almost always because I've turned it off to muck with the hardware, buta: > > sometimes for software installations or power outages. > G > Why would you reboot a machine for software installations? I've neverm > understood that.  D In the most recent case, because the installation code puts hooks in< that update some system variables only on reboot rather thanB immediately, presumably as a simple way of ensuring that they takeB effect globally for all processes.  (In Windows, if I've a consoleB window open, and then change an environment variable on the global5 level, it doesn't propogate into the console window.)i  F > > My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of theK > > problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the competencepJ > > of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any other; > > OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.y > # > There certainly is truth in that!.  F Yup.  I suspect it's part of why my university has started a policy ofD intensively port-scanning the on-campus networks on a regular basis.  f > > All it would? > > take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed asf
 > > root"....c > G > But there almost never is reason to install an app as root. Even if alB > few need to have root rights, there is always the possibility to > install them in chroot jails.i  G Certainly true.  But would your average untrained desktop user/sysadmin E know that?  I suspect, if a program had an install routine claimed towF need to be run as root, and gave error messages if run otherwise, many+ of them would simply su to root and run it.g   - Brooks   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 19:35:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <1kk3IKyAV7HR@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  a In article <b2rflr$1frfug$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:    > H > I seem to remember a company called Loral(?)_ that made IBM compatableJ > hardware (and yes, I mean IBM Mainframes.)  And then, of course, we also! > have Amdahl UTS on IBM systems.T  G    Are you thinking of the NAS series of microcoded 360 and 370 clones?lE    They were from a Japanee firm which claimed they could replace anyi0    system just be supplying different microcode.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 19:41:36 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly,3 Message-ID: <fA4D7tC04n2V@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  e In article <b2rqga$1f68hg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:p > H > In 1984 the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) formed ProjectF > Athena. The goal was to take the existing assortment of incompatibleH > workstations from different vendors and develop a network of graphicalF > workstations that could be used as teaching aids. The solution was aG > network that could run local applications while being able to call onmE > remote resources. They thus created the first operating environmentoH > that was truly hardware and vendor independent - the X Window System.   A    I wonder who writees this stuff, the latest batch of kids?  I -?    recall trying to port around hardware and vendor independentr    graphics stuff from the 70s.c  D    And X11 alone isn't an operating environment, its just a begining    of a GUI.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:34:41 -0600a& From: ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.comQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyy8 Message-ID: <jda35v8a84v4idi5p345abhb8ov4k6rj36@4ax.com>  3 On 18 Feb 2003 03:31:35 GMT, rmk@rmkhome.com wrote:,   <snip>F >Meanwhile, I can still see NIMDA, Code Red, and that latest port 1433I >virus still slamming their way around the internet. Windows was designedeF >for private networks, and then jury-rigged to work with the internet.   Poorly.    -- M3 Arargh (at arargh dot com)    http://www.arargh.comeB To reply by email, change the domain name, and remove the garbage.2 (Enteract can keep the spam, they are gone anyway)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:56:23 -0400.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt. Message-ID: <3E51AEE5.3BE9F80@vl.videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:rG > Only because of the heat the DOJ put on them for many years while thet- > anti-trust case was proceeding against the,t > 3 > Since that time IBM has behaved fairly hororably.  > E > And despite the DOJ case against Microsoft, so far the Borg has nott1 > shown the same kind of contrition that IBM did.     G I think that IBM truly changed mentality under Gerstner. IBM was nearlytM bankrupt and its "proprietary" mentality had to change. And by that, I didn'tiK mean MVS or the 360 architecture, I meant the closed minded shop where disktI drives didn't exist, tey were all DASD, ethernet didn't exist, it was allsL token ring or SNA etc. When IBM opened up and accepted established standards0 such as TCPIP , it gave it a new breath of life.  K Microsoft was almost like that too. Remember that Gates was slow to see and $ adopt the emergence of the internet.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:45:50 -0000t* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo6 Message-ID: <b2svci$1eo5v7$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>  4 "CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message# news:3E510611.C9CDB7F4@yahoo.com...d > Brooks Moses wrote:f > >o > ... snip ... > > B > > My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of > > ... snip ... > D > I believe that many problems arise from the use of non-ECC memory,B > where soft faults can lay eggs that hatch far far in the future,! > make backups useless, etc. etc.A >cK ECC memory will never save you from SOFTWARE faults, as when the errant s/w H writes its junk to the wrong place the hardware will re-write the ECC to match the new content.I What ECC _WILL_ do is allow the hardware to detect, and possibly correct,rF hardware errors in whatever the ECC is protecting. Most (possibly all)J modern Alpha systems have ECC protection all of the way from the cpu cacheL out to memory and all the way back again. This is most certainly not true ofL PC's, which in most cases do not even have the ability to parity check data.     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.netm http://www.travell.uk.net/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:37:06 -0000-5 From: "Peter Ibbotson" <spambox@ibbotson.demon.co.uk>mQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 4 Message-ID: <b2t2cj$ecj$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  : "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message/ news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dK8cuEujHXRe@localhost...uE > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:29:22 UTC, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russellt > Wallace) wrote:r > J > > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:33:09 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
 > > wrote: > > I > > >I've been trying to stay out of this rather useless discussion, but,t theo8 > > >implication above is that MS is not evil and nasty. > > >g: > > >1) Legally found to have used monopolistic practices.+ > > >2) Wipes out any possible competition.)% > > >3) Illegally destroyed Netscape.l > >fB > > By giving away a competing product for free? Ah, then assumingI > > something resembling a consistent set of standards is to be followed, J > > GNU are crimimals for giving away Linux and GCC, Sun for Java and Star > > Office etc.n >eH > A slight over-simplification methinks. The 'competition' with NetscapeE > was not free and fair and IIRC that's the original judges position.>F > That's precisely where they abused their monopoly position and whereG > 'embrace, extend and exclude the opposition' became so very apparent.0F > You may recall that MS coupled discounts with the instruction not to > preload Netscape on PC's.V    J I suspect you've forgotten just how awful Netscape was. I installed a copyK on an NT4 workstation (fresh install as I was submitting this as a bug, andtL I was reinstalling anyway) talking to a HP laserjet and it GPFd all over theK place as I tried to print. I never actually got a version of Navigator thatoI could actually print something. I suspect like so many in the open sourcelJ world[1] they never did ANY testing before shipping the product, certainly) nothing so radical as regression testing.h  G The Linux Test Project http://ltp.sourceforge.net do seem to be gettingeI somewhere (IBM I suspect couldn't ship without something being done aboutaL this and seem to be putting resource in) and the BSD folks also seem to haveE some regression testing in place, but neither seem to be getting code1@ coverage levels high enough to inspire much confidence in an OS.G In particular the code coverage levels reported for the file systems infH their white paper looks dangerously low. I'd like to check that all codeK gets run as filesystems tend to have nasty edge cases around running out ofs
 resources.    I [1] Yes I know it wasn't open source but some of the culture was similar.f --F Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to replyH Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org  | I own the domain but theres no MX   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:20:31 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comeQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt* Message-ID: <b2t7cl$2q$2@bob.news.rcn.net>  0 In article <3e5101b4.135549904@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:G >On 17 Feb 2003 13:39:53 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>i >wrote:h >sE >>The point is not teh various linux distros, but linux, the BSDs and19 >>the SVR4 compliant unix versions from several vendors. c > 7 >Which aren't compatible with each other, last I heard.o >o' >>By the way, do you know about posix ?b >3D >Yes, it makes porting easier, but Posix-compliant operating systems* >are still not compatible with each other. >i6 Errmmm...I don't think you know what compatible means.   /BAH   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:29:51 GMTc From: jmfbahciv@aol.com,Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya* Message-ID: <b2t7u5$2q$4@bob.news.rcn.net>  0 In article <3e510401.136139085@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:4 >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:01:11 +0000, Andrew Harrison! ><andrew.harrison@sun.com> wrote:- >-; >>Humm. not entirely true, you can run that non-proprietaryt6 >>Office product from Microsoft on Sun's. Just get the >>SunPCi card. >MG >I will suggest that if you're going to buy a PC, you might as well buy3) >one in a mini tower case as on a card :)n >78 >>StarOffice is hardly proprietary either, its available9 >>in OpenSource form as OpenOffice and its file specs area8 >>XML and publically available for developers. Radically >>different from MS-Office.a >IE >That is true, and the file specs part in particular is a significantt5 >advantage, and all due credit to Sun for doing that.o >eD >However, I wasn't saying Star Office is more closed and proprietaryD >than Microsoft Office (indeed it isn't), I was saying Sun boxes are& >more closed and proprietary than PCs. >t< Are you declaring this because you can't buy Sun at CompUSA?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:37:21 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.comwQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly3* Message-ID: <b2t8c7$2q$5@bob.news.rcn.net>  0 In article <3e515058.155684634@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:G >On 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:1 <snip>  B >>You spent too much time with that Commodore 64.  You should have >>had a real computer instead. > C >I used real computers in college at the tail end of the 80s; a VAXa6 >6230 running VMS, and various assorted Unix machines.   <snort>n   > ... They were alloD >incompatible with each other. By that point I had an Amiga at home,C >which was the best affordable single user machine of its time, buts# >also incompatible with everything./  < You definitely do not know the definition of incompatible as@ it is used in this biz.  You do NOT boot your system, try to run. LINUX.EXE, then declare it to be incompatible.  B A computer has one, and only one, OS in charge.  (Yea, yea..before> you guys jump on me, I'm aware of most of that stuff.  The kid4 needs to learn his ABCs before writing Shakespeare.)   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.A   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:48:09 GMTu From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh* Message-ID: <b2t90f$2q$6@bob.news.rcn.net>  J In article <3e51a916$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net>, rmk@rmkhome.com wrote:K >In alt.folklore.computers Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu> s wrote: >hE >> My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of the0J >> problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the competenceI >> of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any other H >> OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.  All it wouldI >> take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as root".... oH >> And a .bashrc-infecting virus shouldn't be that hard to make, either; >> who'd notice it?, >@B >Take a look at the bugtraq mailing list or www.securityfocus.com. >:" >Worst OS - any version of Windows >2nd Worst OS - Linuxr% >And then everything else after that.d >,G >Windows, by the nature of it's GUI interface, even hides problems fromg >the sysadmin. >>F >Meanwhile, I can still see NIMDA, Code Red, and that latest port 1433I >virus still slamming their way around the internet. Windows was designed F >for private networks, and then jury-rigged to work with the internet.  ; How do you think Misoft "knows" to distribute their updatescE with automatic update service?  They have to have backdoors installedn< in the users' computers.  Any software that has an auto-dial8 without an OK from the user, is high security risk meat.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:54:50 -0000 D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyy2 Message-ID: <1045572875.525237@saucer.planet.gong>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ( news:3E51AEE5.3BE9F80@vl.videotron.ca... > John Smith wrote:TI > > Only because of the heat the DOJ put on them for many years while thei/ > > anti-trust case was proceeding against the,r > >s5 > > Since that time IBM has behaved fairly hororably.n > >cG > > And despite the DOJ case against Microsoft, so far the Borg has note3 > > shown the same kind of contrition that IBM did., >c >rI > I think that IBM truly changed mentality under Gerstner. IBM was nearly   3 IBM certainly showed signs of being able to swallow 5 the NIH issues before Gerstner stepped in (an example 2 that is close to my heart : INMOS RAMDACs in early6 PS/2s). However, something that always struck me about4 IBM is that they seemed to suffocate under their own weight.h  3 Things appeared to chang very rapidly with Gerstnert5 stepping in. Suddenly all these interesting shrinkinge2 violet products seemed to burst forth with renewed6 vitality AND focus. I think a large part of the credit7 for delivering that change has to be marketing (becauset( the products were already there AFAICT).   Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:13:02 GMTf0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt0 Message-ID: <3e523f2a.216832279@news.eircom.net>  8 On Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:20:31 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  7 >Errmmm...I don't think you know what compatible means.e  F I know what Unix geeks define it to mean. My point is that the rest ofC the world defines it otherwise, and they are right to do so, and totF demand that our industry supply systems that are compatible by _their_ definition.    -- e3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."b+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:15:16 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyb0 Message-ID: <3e523fbb.216977105@news.eircom.net>  F On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:49:08 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> wrote:  B >I regularly sit at a Windows box and run X applications that are I >resident on a BSD or Linux box.  Whatever you heard you must have heard   >a very long time ago.  E And will the same binaries run resident on any of the three boxes? Do,C the same keyboard shortcuts work on all the different applications?e- Can you reliably copy and paste between them?t   -- u3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."e+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.n! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacen   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 11:01:16 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)nQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr- Message-ID: <b2tlcc$sqe$1@shell.monmouth.com>d  F In article <b2t7cl$2q$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:1 >In article <3e5101b4.135549904@news.eircom.net>, 5 >   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote: H >>On 17 Feb 2003 13:39:53 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> >>wrote: >>F >>>The point is not teh various linux distros, but linux, the BSDs and: >>>the SVR4 compliant unix versions from several vendors.  >>8 >>Which aren't compatible with each other, last I heard. >>( >>>By the way, do you know about posix ? >>E >>Yes, it makes porting easier, but Posix-compliant operating systemsm+ >>are still not compatible with each other.  >>7 >Errmmm...I don't think you know what compatible means.o >r >/BAHy    F No, BAH... it shows how poorly written the Posix spec was and how most? Posix vendors really were half-hearted in their attempt to keepi compatible.m  L Some Unix vendors and some other mini-vendors had claims of Posix compliance but the worst was MS.l  F The IBM and DEC VAX/VMS POSIX layers were supposedly pretty compliant.G The Microsoft one in WinNT was deliberately made the minimal needed forGG meeting the spec for a US Coast Guard systems bid (IIRC Unisys had it).l  H IIRC -- The thing was none of the software the Coast Guard was going to H use would have functioned under the Posix layer.  IIRC it was Sybase SQLF under the NT Windows layer and a number of apps that were all winapps.  H The Unix vendors had stuff that all was POSIX compliant -- but MicrosoftA met the minimum bid requirements of a POSIX Layer and Sybase SQL DH and that got them the win by price.  The rest of the Coast Guard's stuffD had to be reworked to run under WinNT or replaced -- where the posixG layers on Unix and VAX/VMS at the time would've taken a minimum of timep to get working under POSIX.d     Bill -- aM +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+tM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |tM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |jN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 11:07:52 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)aQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly - Message-ID: <b2tloo$t3e$1@shell.monmouth.com>   . In article <3E521C74.1020107@nospamn.sun.com>,! Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyr"   <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote: > ; >Sounds rather like all the smaller UNIX vendors ganging upl= >against Sun and AT&T to form OSF. (lets call it a foundations >it makes it sound better).. >a  E IIRC -- AT&T and Sun were to control Unix and have a lead on featurescE and the implementation of the OS.  After pushing System V consider it.E standard and joining up with Sun (since AT&T couldn't sell or supportGH software worth a damn...on it's hardware or anyone elses) the other Unix@ vendors who had paid for a source license saw the formation of aD Pre-Microsoft Microsoft... A monopoly vendor of "True Unix" with a 69 month lead on the rest by virtue of controlling the code.d  D And in addition to controlling the code  Intellectual Property, they8 began to up the price of source licenses with SysIII....    : >Lets just hope that United Linux doesn't go the OSF route: >of broken promises, wasted investment and lack of support >by its own members.  H Well, OSF was a disaster.  HP even was a member of both groups trying toD protect their SysV based HPUX while retaining an option if Sun beganI to make inroads into their base.  Interesting how Tru64's merge into HPUX  kind of brings that back to me.w  9 The OSF Logical Volume Manager still exists in IBM AIX...h   >  >Regards >Andrew Harrison >e   Bill Pechter     -- -M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+hM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |tM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  | N |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:52:58 -0000fD From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye1 Message-ID: <1045587168.20690@saucer.planet.gong>7  5 "J. Clarke" <nospam1@nospam.invalid> wrote in messagel& news:b2tin001p3s@enews2.newsguy.com...   [SNIP]  G > And for "uninformed users", there is no excuse whatsoever to not keeppH > your patches current--Windows annoys the Hell out of you with messages< > about needing patches any time there is a patch available. >nI > There are problems with Windows, but blame it for what it does, not forb( > what applications running under it do.  9 Hmm, the problem is : A fair few exploits have been founde; for the services supplied with the system by default, whiche; the user takes no part in configuring. Furthermore the userf4 may well not even be aware of the existance of those
 services !  $ That is an OS Vendor Policy problem.  9 Furthermore, many applications, following the pattern set < by Microsoft, require Superuser priveledges to be installed.: It is therefore impossible to *confine* the application to: something akin to a chroot jail or an LPAR. Microsoft's OS6 and Applications are to blame for that one. It's a bad+ example to set to 3rd party developers too.e  : You can see the net result of this : Proliferation of lots< of over powered single-application boxes, the number roughly: being the product of the number of different apps required9 by the number of domains... Naturally this creates a muchp: greater management burden, and the complexity ensures that: failures are more frequent and security holes are far more8 likely to exist - and probably be more insidious too. ;)  < Microsoft clearly does not get this really... The marketoids> and analysts bang on about how many processors it can support.7 If they took the trouble to actually ask people who run>= the bloody systems in the field what they wanted, they'd find 8 that that they want easier management... If they thought: about it a bit more they might work out that looking after< one box with 100 apps is easier than looking after 100 boxes% running one app... Plus it's cheaper.    Cheers,r Rupert   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 22:45:56 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyMD Message-ID: <20030217221930.5E8883A6.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>  2 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  E > It doesn't matter who wants what or who feels what. The reason it's F > vastly preferable to have Microsoft instead of IBM or anyone else as6 > #1 is very simple: *Microsoft don't sell computers*.  B So what do you call the X-box? (other than all the other things we
 call it!!)   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:29:07 GMTh, From: cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly $ Message-ID: <ubs1ar172.fsf@dtpq.com>  C >>>>> On 17 Feb 2003 20:38:29 GMT, Bill Gunshannon ("Bill") writes:   1  Bill> In article <m3isvjjcye.fsf@elgin.eder.de>,f7  Bill> 	Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> writes:66  >> rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  >> H  >>> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:30:35 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>  >>> wrote:l  >>> yD  >>> >There are international standards for C, Pascal, Ada, Fortran,G  >>> >C++, and others.  Programs written to the standards are portable,sE  >>> >and most programs can be so written if you are willing to forgo8  >>> >the whiz-bangs.   >>> fK  >>> Only for command line utilities; it's been a long time since there wasn  >>> a market for those.  >>> mE  >> You do know about X Windows, do you? It has been here for over 10o  >> years. s  H  Bill> Now there's an understatement.  The MIT-Athena Project that begat=  Bill> X-Windows dates to 1984.  I make that almost 20 years.-  * X predates Athena by a few years, I think.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 23:16:26 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly56 Message-ID: <b2rqga$1f68hg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  $ In article <ubs1ar172.fsf@dtpq.com>,/ 	cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:hD >>>>>> On 17 Feb 2003 20:38:29 GMT, Bill Gunshannon ("Bill") writes: > 3 >  Bill> In article <m3isvjjcye.fsf@elgin.eder.de>,p > J >  Bill> Now there's an understatement.  The MIT-Athena Project that begat? >  Bill> X-Windows dates to 1984.  I make that almost 20 years.u > , > X predates Athena by a few years, I think.  & http://www.saao.ac.za/unix/node66.html       History of X  F In 1984 the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) formed ProjectD Athena. The goal was to take the existing assortment of incompatibleF workstations from different vendors and develop a network of graphicalD workstations that could be used as teaching aids. The solution was aE network that could run local applications while being able to call onnC remote resources. They thus created the first operating environment#F that was truly hardware and vendor independent - the X Window System.   	 ---------   C I seldom rely on my own memory for this stuff.  I think the historyu@ of our industry is much to important and I despise the way it is constantly being rewritten.3   bill   -- 7J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:25:02 GMTo/ From: "Don Chiasson" <don_chiasson@notmail.com>tQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolysD Message-ID: <ibe4a.256$9bV.154@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagen0 news:b2rhfh$1frfug$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... [snip Linux ......]d >e= > Well, that explains it.  Most of us here were talking aboute7 > professional computing and not this "brave new world"u; > where any kid with a PC is an operating systems engineer.t: > Considering the actual level of experience and knowledge8 > of the average Limux user I'm amazed they ever get the > machines to run at all..  < Don't forget that Linus Torvalds was a kid in college, not aE professional, when he started writing Linux. He got something working D and then with help from many people - mostly kids - built on it. TheG professionals such as Andrew Tannenbaum and Richard Stallman pointed inIA the wrong direction for writing a full operating system, toward anH microkernel. Read "Hackers" and other books, and you will find that many" of the best programmers were kids.  F There are two big things about Linux. First it that it is an operatingG system that works. Second is that it lets anyone try to be an operatinge9 system engineer. Most fail, but a few succeed gloriously.    ---Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:51:30 -0800y$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>Q Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly-0 Message-ID: <01C2D73B.C90167B0@sulfer.icius.com>   >Russell Wallace wrote:vF >> It doesn't matter who wants what or who feels what. The reason it'sG >> vastly preferable to have Microsoft instead of IBM or anyone else as.7 >> #1 is very simple: *Microsoft don't sell computers*., >l- >Um, what's the XBox, then? How about MSN TV?r  C The XBox isn't meant to be a computer, in fact they've put a lot of(H effort into making it as hard as possible to make it work as a computer.H The Linux guys had a competition where the first person to get it to run5 Linux got a cash prize. I /think/ it's been done now.t   Shane.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 07:16:07 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)a- Subject: Just wondering how everyone is doing < Message-ID: <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>   Dear Newsgroup,p  F Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getF another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin fever has set in.n   Please take care of your self.   Big hug,   Suet   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:20:11 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doinge3 Message-ID: <aK1N24DkmGZb@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  p In article <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes: > Dear Newsgroup,  > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.,  F   Got about 18 inches yesterday and expect about 12 more today.  We're2   not to expect to see a snowplow until Wednesday.  ;   Good excuse to stay home and work on my hobbyist cluster.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:56:21 -0500  From: gce <ge@gce.com>1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingi+ Message-ID: <b2rb94$cjm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>f   Sue Skonetski wrote: > Dear Newsgroup,  > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.: >   > Please take care of your self. > 
 > Big hug, >  > SueuJ Ayup. We were up to 18 inches last night. Hard to tell, with drifting, howO high it is now...3 feet or so. Reduces feelings of missing the deep NH snows...o  M We're meanwhile waiting for the guy with the front end loader to come and digyD out the path to the road. His snowplow won't move...snow's too deep.  F We're sitting around, feeding the birds some and holed up. FortunatelyA Delaware doesn't get snow continuously for months like NH does...o  N Sympathies and hope y'all get some warmer air up there sometime soon. 10 below@ (Fahrenheit, for those not in the US!) or less is mighty cold...   Best to allu   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 21:11:09 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doinge6 Message-ID: <b2rj5c$1frfug$9@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  B I just want to know where all this snow was on Saturday when I wasC skiing.  Although I do have to admit conditions were really god foraD my first time out in 3 years.  But today would have been fantastic!!   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 16:36:19 -06003 From: mcdermott@encompasserve.org (C. M. McDermott) 1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing 3 Message-ID: <6E8xAQKZSsVx@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  p In article <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes: > Dear Newsgroup,i > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.o >   > Please take care of your self. > 
 > Big hug, >  > Sue    Hi Sue,oN   Upper Montgomery Co MD.US has been hit with about 2' of snow.  The worst hasM long since passed.  My fear now is the flooding (starting with my basement). rK Supposedly the temps go up into the 50's here on Thursday.  Can't wait.  AtmM least the Feds gave us an extra day off tomorrow.  The road crews can use the2 break."   Best of luck to you north of MD.   Mike McDermott   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 23:22:20 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingu6 Message-ID: <b2rqrc$1f68hg$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  / In article <3E515663.AF00FD91@vl.videotron.ca>, 3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:i > J >          (the argument that cycling in winter is no worse than skiing inN > winter in terms of cold doesn't seem to work on people - heck, one does more< > exercise cycling tha skiing, so one doesn't get as cold).   C I guess that depends on how you ski as well as how you cycle.  I donF both, but don't realy consider myself a "cyclist".  It's more a matterE of practical transportation. I get much more of a workout skiing thanl= I do cycling.  But then, I beat both of them when I run.  :-)t   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 15:55:26 -0800, From: sigvald@binet.is (Sigvaldi Eggertsson)1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingr= Message-ID: <70d8ab2e.0302171555.48657dfa@posting.google.com>   g Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote in message news:<170220031136427715%paul.anderson@hp.com>... B > In article <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>, Sue0 > Skonetski <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote: > J > > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getJ > > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > > fever has set in.i > F > I like lots of snow, so this kind of weather is a joy to me.  What'sG > really unpleasant is 95 degrees and 95% humidity for days or weeks on H > end in the middle of the summer.  I keep telling my wife, forget aboutG > going to Florida for a week's vacation in the winter; I need a week'sd/ > vacation in Iceland to escape summer weather!g >  > Paul   Im very sorry! 1 Here it is 4C and raining with no snow in sight.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:26:50 GMTv- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>e1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing-= Message-ID: <_Jh4a.10349$jR3.5325125@news1.news.adelphia.net>e   Sue Skonetski wrote: > Dear Newsgroup,I > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.J  I The forcast for Southern New Hampshire area has been revised since Sue's n post.t  H I have just removed about 18 inches of snow from my driveway, and it is @ likely that there may be up to another 18 inches before morning.    > Please take care of your self. > 
 > Big hug,   Thanks, Sue.   -Johng wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:38:54 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doings/ Message-ID: <3E515663.AF00FD91@vl.videotron.ca>a   "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:eC > Have the folks in Hudson's Bay been shipping their excess to you?t  N Yes. We've had the red light on solid for 2 weeks now. (when temperature dropsN below -12, the hydro company charges us more for electricity, so the heat pump- goes off-line and backup oil heats the home).0    Q > I thought you guys broke out your bicycles shortly after Groundhog Day (2-Feb).e= > What's the matter, not enough ice in your cojones?      :-)-  N I went out to the food store on my old clunker yesterday. It was -20 outdoors.N But I don't take out the good bike until after all the sand, dirt and SALT has7 been washed off the road by at least one good rainfall.a  M Interestingly, on the leather seat, it isn't a problem. But if you stop at anmJ intersection and your "cojones" touch the metal top tube as you put a footL down on the street,  then you really do feel the transfer of heat away, even5 with the jeans and underwear providing insulation....t  K And I must always remember to remove the balaclava (bank robber hat) beforelL entering any store or bank :-) :-) :-) :-)  The advantage of cycling when itF is *that* cold if that people don't even bother joking about you beingH crazy... (the argument that cycling in winter is no worse than skiing inL winter in terms of cold doesn't seem to work on people - heck, one does moreJ exercise cycling tha skiing, so one doesn't get as cold). The folks at theM food store get a kick at seeing me put so much food in a backpack, they don'td* understand how it cal all fit in there :-)  L And having cycled many thousands of km on sandy roads in australia's outbackM (as well as canadian arctic) has given me good experience on cycling on snowym	 roads :-)R  K If anyone had *any* doubt that I was strange prior to reading this message,g2 thos doubts should now be gone :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:57:37 GMTj9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>21 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingl? Message-ID: <2a6950c64b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>r  ; In message <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>y<           susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote:   > Dear Newsgroup,o > H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.t >   > Please take care of your self. > 
 > Big hug, >  > Suer  F I hope some of that's hitting the Canadian Rockies, because I'm off to Fernie next week.l  J We had about an eighth of an inch of snow a few weeks back, and it brought southern England to a halt.   J (Actually it was the effect of warm ground and cold air I think - it seemsJ as though the snow melted on the roads, then the windchill froze it again.L English drivers don't seem to recognise ice. Nice, white frost they can see,@ solid frozen water they don't see. Winter tyres unheard of too.)   -- l
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:08:37 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a> Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0 and MACRO Assembler3 Message-ID: <nYqYRR8ffNMn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E4FFDF5.1BEEFD2D@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > L > Would you qualify the user written system services as requiring the use ofH > MACRO ? Or is it now possible to write the whole system service in C ? > 8 > Is there a list of things that still require MACRO32 ?    D    IIRC VAX VMS device drivers and the hooks to make a VAX shareable#    image readily upward compatable.e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 17:06:45 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302171706.1f9925d7@posting.google.com>s   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E50DD02.30406@nospamn.sun.com>...e > jlsue wrote:I > > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:04:03 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyt2 > > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: > >  > >  > > E > >>NO I didn't I claimed that customers had issues with GS160 vs 140I' > >>performance and that claim is true.- > >>L > >>I am also offering to supply you with an actual example of a UK retailerK > >>who made a significant GS320 investment, who subsequently had to switchMG > >>platforms because of these issues, about as extreme as you can get.1 > >>G > >>Conduct your poll if you like, its hardly going to prove much. Very E > >>few people a prepared to admit publically that they purchased thel$ > >>wrong system and had to dump it. > >> > > 
 > > [etc.] > > 9 > > You backpedal more than anyone I've ever seen before.o > >  >  > Nice try.. > 6 > You ask me to put up or shut up. I offered to put up > but you declined my offer. > 9 > I guess its time for you to shut up and stop contestings% > the case against GS320 performance.i > 	 > Regardsl > Andrew Harrison   ; care to contest the case for the performance of the GS1280?B   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:23:44 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>G Subject: Re: OT: Java bugs abound in Slowaris 9 ... becomes memory hog!$) Message-ID: <3E5144D0.8030806@vajhoej.dk>4   Keith A. Lewis wrote:nK > Alpha/Tru64 was actually a player in the high-performance Java arena, but0B > Dell recently beat the fastest Alpha with a Wintel box running a" > P4-optimized JVM by BEA Systems.  / I doubt that JRockit makes so big a difference.f   2.8 GHz is just fast.u   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:45:56 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Possible advertisement for Alphap/ Message-ID: <3E515808.2EE9767E@vl.videotron.ca>   L Was watching this documentary with Arnold Swartznegger yesterday about how aN computer chip developped now would one day result in so much intelligence that9 machines would take over the world and kill off humans...   M I came to the conclusion that the real reason Capellas murdered Alpha is thatfL he saw the same documentary and realised that it was the Alpha chip that wasN so powerfull it could one day result in those robots taking over the world, soF just like it was so important to destroy that chip in the documentary,9 Capellas decided he should do the same with Alpha :-) :-)-  F But imagine the marketing for VMS and Alpha that could have been done:  N Picture of "terminator robot" being attacked by the melting-metal guy over andJ over, but somehow, he always manages to re-route power and get back on hisN feet and continue to fight. Caption: "Alpha VMS inside, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking"G  H "If VMS and Alpha can give Arnold so much intelligence and tolerance forN disaster, think about what VMS and Alpha could do for your business. And thinkL about what your Alpha-VMS equipped business could do to your competitors..."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:45:21 GMT ( From: "Mark E. Levy" <mlevy70@attbi.com>- Subject: Re: Possible advertisement for Alphai- Message-ID: <lue4a.140468$SD6.7418@sccrnsc03>o  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagei) news:3E515808.2EE9767E@vl.videotron.ca...a  * >"Alpha VMS inside, it takes a licking and > keeps on ticking"   5 I think the Timex Co. would have a problem with that.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 11:12:56 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) A Subject: Re: Possible replacements for PSPA (Performance Advisor)B= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302171112.6ae5d8f2@posting.google.com>-  Z p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote in message news:<om50SJtEZfoe@elias.decus.ch>...E > o - ECP - despite my comments above about the interactive interfacehC >     lacking the scope provided by PSPA, it can produce CSV files.0- >     More research on my part required here.r > F >     Again can get those graphs out, but can we diagnose the problemsC >     leading up to a hang or crash? Is the format of the recording,4 >     files published so that we can "roll our own"?  F While the format of the recording files is not published, ECP can dumpF all the data in the recording files into .CSV files, and the format ofE all the different record types in the .CSV output is fully documentedl' in the manual.  Chapter 5, as I recall.o  B I haven't looked at SightLine for a few years.  When I did, it hadF very nice graphs, but its strong suit and unique capability was in the area of correlation.  D PerfCap (the spin-off of the group that did ECP) has gone beyond ECPF in data collection, added enough graphs that they have more than DECpsE now, based on what I saw at Australian DECUS, and has added hot-files @ capability.  Still no PC sampling or rules-based analysis reportB capability, but obviously under active development by VMS experts.  ? That said, at this instant in time, I go first to DECps if it'siC available on a given customer's systems.  Despite all its warts andiC bit-rot (can't determine disk configuration of HSGs like it used torA for HSJ/HSDs, for example), it still provides the most value in at5 short amount of time.  But PerfCap is gaining ground.i   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 03 07:52:24 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) A Subject: Re: Possible replacements for PSPA (Performance Advisor)i) Message-ID: <AypgSnca4gsN@elias.decus.ch>M  c In article <f8SqlQJch3xl@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:eW > In article <om50SJtEZfoe@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:5 > L >> However, on Friday morning I had to crash a system which had been hangingM >> overnight (not a production system, fortunately). According to an in houseeG >> monitoring program, it had run out of pagefile space and SWAPPER hadrD >> hit 78% CPU utilization at one point. OPERATOR.LOG only containedH >> timestamps for the relevant period - specifically, no "pagefile full" >> or similar messages.t > J > I thought pagefile full, at least in the past, was one of those messages7 > that went directly to the console, not through Opcom.s >r  ? I believe you are correct, but I was hoping to see something in  OPERATOR.LOG too.o    ,C >> o - Fortel's Sightline. Can anyone tell me if this can do what IfD >>     am trying to find? - i.e. look at recorded history leading up >>     to a hang or crash. > B > Due to a business relationship with Fortel, I have a copy of theB > Sightline manual and it indicates the program is able to monitorA > both pagefile space and CPU utilization.  The general design isaA > that you have to decide in advance what aspects of VMS you want A > to be monitoring, and thus how much disk space will be consumed @ > by the history files. So if you never thought the scenario youD > describe would be possible and you had taken very stingy decisionsF > regarding how much disk space you wanted to devote to history files,C > it is possible you would not have configured the relevant metricso > (or any others).     Thanks for the recommendation.  B Fortunately this is an environment where large databases exist, so> finding the space for history files is normally not a problem.  2 > Presuming a worst case scenario of the VMS crashE > erasing the history records on disk :-), there is some salvation inc0 > that history (is/can be) also kept on the PC.   A Well, it must be approaching 20 years since a VMS crash lost me a-> complete disk, and that was eventually traced to a third party) disk controller which was misbehaving :-)I   > In fact that PC is: > required for using Sightline in the recommended fashion.  3@ Does "recommended" mean "absolutely necessary"? This brings backF memories of the Friday afternoon I decided to clean my PC keyboard andB locked myself out by too many password failures*, only to find the> helpdesk closed for the weekend due to maintenance work on the switchboard :-(n  > * Yes, I know now that the way to do that is to disconnect the% keyboard or switch the entire PC off.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 00:26 CDT-' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t- Subject: Re: Read/Write from a global sections- Message-ID: <18FEB200300261643@gerg.tamu.edu>n  U In article <v4ssgtm1uae4c8@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes...l/ }Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:RF }: Eh, as Larry rightly points out, the names are not going to change. }  }The names INSIDE the program.   What other kind are there?  G The names of the parameters are essentially defined by the routine, not0H the program that calls the routine. Changing them is right up there withG changing the order of the parameters in terms of the seriousness of thee change.e  D They aren't going to change any more often than the order of them isD going to change. It doesn't happen at random. It doesn't happen on aC whim. (At least not for the defined system interfaces and such- 3rd.0 party stuff might change more often, I suppose.)   --- Carl   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:31:40 +0100 (MET)p9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server; Message-ID: <01KSJM7RVPMA9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > > Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)mD > > from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentF > > physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with" > > same size, and both on 7.1-2). > H > We ran into problems with items in the print and batch queues becomingM > invalid (logical names are translated and specific version numbers recorded-J > before items get stored in the queue files), but everything else worked.  G Also, be careful if the ethernet controller has a different name.  You   will need to reconfigure TCPIP.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:51:16 -0000 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>4 Subject: RE: Restore of System to a different ServerO Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3023CCE5B@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   L Just did this recently from a couple of AS1200's to ES40's. (Same CPU Class)A The only bits I had to change to have a full working system were:g  I I had to register the new VMS base license for the ES40's when the system- first came up.K I needed to change all the physical disk ID's in Sylogicals (I use logicalsm everywhere else). D I had to Reconfigure DECNET & TCPIP as the Ethernet device names had changed.J Everything else worked once the above was done & I had rebooted - I didn'tH even need to do an autogen to get a working system, so I left them for a9 couple of weeks to get some sensible live working values.2H I did lose the entries on the queues, but that was my mistake, but I hadJ saved a full listing of all the queues to a file before starting so it was' fairly quick to re-add all the entries.lK Both machines are part of a cluster, have their own System Disks, but sharer* via a common disk, queue & username files.	 Good luckr Andrew Robinson  aD Still wondering why I spend 90% of my time keeping Micro$oft working    -----Original Message------ From: SY1333@AOL.COM [mailto:SY1333@AOL.COM]   Sent: 14 February 2003 14:49 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma0 Subject: Restore of System to a different Server    J Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image) fromK one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has different physical deviceoI names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with same size, and both on  7.1-2).   ' Any guidance would be much appreciated.    Regards & Thanks     Sean   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:13:36 +0000 (UTC)o, From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)@ Subject: Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.2. Message-ID: <b2r1ng$cm2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Franceskiello <thestraycat71@hotmail.com> writes in article <elfv4vcutjro1hebtn8hiq6q2vo46eej3i@4ax.com> dated Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:46:53 GMT: 4 >I can get a Plextor 12/20, is this unit compatible?  K I have a Plextor 8/20 connected to an Alphastation 500.  It works great foreH burning CDs (via CDRECORD), but it won't read them.  Luckily for me that* Alphastation came with a built-in RRD47.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgn> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:52:49 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>@ Subject: Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.26 Message-ID: <1030217174400.15004C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  + On 16 Feb 2003, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote:   ) > In article <3E4FDE6B.37320BD5@fsi.net>,-2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > >Franceskiello wrote: K > >For any VAX machine, CD-ROM compatibility will be a bit more challengingeK > >than on an Alpha. Watch e-Bay for RRD42, 43, 44 and later CD-ROM drives. D > >Some Toshibas are good, also since RRDs are essentially re-badged> > >Toshibas. 512-byte blocksize is pre-requisite to VMS, also. >  > Not all those Toshiba's work.. > D > The best info is the sun cdrom faq...  If they work on a Sun Sparc9 > 2/10/20 with SunOS 4 they should work on a VAX/VMS box.   > I have a Sun cdrom drive at work that appears outwardly almost> identical to an RRD42 (same manufacturer and extremely similar@ part number) that I could not get to work on an AlphaStation 200B 4/100.  Eventually, I got an RRD46 which works fine.  (I'm at home= today due to the blizzard, so can't check exact part number.)e   > >fF > >I've heard that certain CD-R/W drives will work as both readers andG > >writers also, but that the list was very short, one or two models ath > >most. > >d > ) > If they've got the 512 sector jumper...t > H > My IBM, Teac, Sony (Sun) scsi drives all do -- but they're pretty old.I > I'm not sure if my Yamaha SCSI RW has the jumper... if it does it's noto > external.k >  > Bill   --   John Santosi Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:28:44 GMT / From: Franceskiello <thestraycat71@hotmail.com>s@ Subject: Re: SCSI cdrom on a microVAX 3100 / 20 with OpenVMS 6.28 Message-ID: <ohr25vsin7k59i3cr96ehvpnqn6sb8h27m@4ax.com>  * I have the Plextor unit in my hands now...9 unfortunately it's not an UltraPlex40 but it's a PX-20TSI " It' has seven jumpers on the back,> the first three for SCSI IDs then, Parity, Test, Block, Eject.> I think the Block jumper must be shorted but I didn't test it.+ I think I'll do before the end of the week.bE Thanks to everybody helps me, maybe in a shorht time I'll think aboutb? buy an original RRD from eBay to have all original DEC devices.l  
 Francesco 6 On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:45:26 -0000, "Jefferson Humber"! <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:t  H >The Plextor UltraPlex40Max has the jumper, which they describe as 'Unix >Mode'.o >g >Jeff1   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:42:40 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)0< Subject: Re: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302171042.150ba2ea@posting.google.com>o  i peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<NPt3a.32521$h%6.459052@news.chello.at>...i4 > >Fast_Path for LANs is presently slated for 7.3-2. > H > ... which should be called OpenVMS Alpha V7.5 (just like V7.3-1 shouldK > be called V7.4). Am I the only one who doesn't understand why a so calledsG > maintenance version contains more new features than bugfixes - or newa > featues at all ?  F To be strictly correct, I would have had to say Opal instead of 7.3-2,A since the name hasn't been officially determined yet, as far as IaD know.  But by using the number 7.3-2, one knows it is not 7.3-1, but is the very next release after.l  E I think, regardless of version numbering choices, HP has been good atcE letting customers know what is in a release.  For example, folks knew-E that 7.2-2 contained many, but certainly nowhere near all, of the newpE features in 7.3, and was thus a release with more potential risk, but.) more potential benefit, than, say, 7.2-1.e   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 00:20 CDT2' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) < Subject: Re: Support for Gigabit Ethernet Clusters on Marvel- Message-ID: <18FEB200300205651@gerg.tamu.edu>6  R In article <NPt3a.32521$h%6.459052@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at writes...r }In article <cf15391e.0302121259.6658adc4@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:k }>"James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<b2b19l$1b44vc$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>...nB }>> Does this mean LAN fastpath support too?  That would be great. }>3 }>Fast_Path for LANs is presently slated for 7.3-2.i } H }.... which should be called OpenVMS Alpha V7.5 (just like V7.3-1 shouldJ }be called V7.4). Am I the only one who doesn't understand why a so calledF }maintenance version contains more new features than bugfixes - or new }featues at all ?B } 
 }just curiouss }--  }Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER  ? I agree that the version numbering scheme has become corrupted.-  H They no longer indicate what they used to (or, in fact, much of anythingH useful at all) and it is no longer possible to tell how much of a changeF any given "update" will turn out to be. You used to know that a changeE of the "-number" type was pretty minor, somewhere beteen entirely andcF mostly just a combination of all the ECOs that had been released sinceC the last "-number" (or lack of a "-number" when talking about "-1").$ release. This is no longer the case.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:34:47 -0000s* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>1 Subject: Re: Systemcrash after login after reboott6 Message-ID: <b2qrua$1eoimb$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagePF news:rdeininger-1702030812290001@user-uinj4ck.dialup.mindspring.com...= > In article <b2qool$67r$1@news.dtag.de>, "Thomas Egenberger" * > <thomas.egenberger@technidata.de> wrote: >s	 > >Hello,i > >h5 > >after an Update to OpenVMS 7.31 and installing alli6 > >neccessary patches the Alphaserver is crashing with8 > >INVTQEFMT, if you try to login directly after reboot,9 > >or if you starting for example Oracle in a batch queue  > >from systartup_vms.com. > >n9 > >If you wait some time after reboot, you can log in andrI > >you can start Oracle by hand in the same way as from systartup_vms.comg >wG > TQEs (Timer Queue Entry) are internal data structures used by VMS forkG > "alarm clock" timer functions.  The "timer queue", the structure thatgJ > holds the collection of TQEs, is very active.  On a busy system, severalK > tens of thousands of TQEs can fire each second.  Just about everything in  > VMS uses TQEs. >0B > The TQE subsystem was completely rewritten for V7.3-1 to improveL > performance.  The internal data structure is no longer a queue, but a pairE > of interlocking trees.  INVTQEFMT crashes occur when the timer codeoH > detects a mangled TQE, or inconsistencies in the tree data structures. >fL > TQEs are the same size (64 bytes) as many other non-paged data structures,H > so anything that corrupts non-paged pool _can_ show up as an INVTQEFMTL > crash.  I know of one application that will do this if conditions are just0 > right, but I'm not at liberty to name it here. >iG > But more often, this shows up after an upgrade to V7.3-1 because sometF > application is manipulating the timer queue by hand.  Since it is no@ > longer a queue, the code quickly corrupts the data structures. >H > I suggest: >oK > Since you seem to be able to reproduce this crash (which is somewhat rare E > for pool corruptors), log a call if you can.  You will be asked forIE > details of your software configuration, and a crash dump file.  Thei9 > support center is best equipped to diagnose this crash.d >aG > Check that your applications and layered products are supported undero- > V7.3-1.  Some might require newer versions.t  F You might also want to reproduce the crash with POOLCHECK enabled, butD simply setting poolcheck to to the usual value may mask or block the0 problem, or even change the nature of the crash.I If any of these are true, set poolcheck to %x8000, the non-zero value (atsJ boot time) will enable the full checking code, but not do the poisoning orK pattern checking on allocate, so has the value of just enabling the history  buffer.W     -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.neta http://www.travell.uk.net/   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:28:26 +0100 (MET)c9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h% Subject: Re: TCPIP: How to multihomedt; Message-ID: <01KSJLPWENKI9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  
 > >  EIA0: > >  IE0   (0 > A) > @ > > If you want a pseudo interface associated with EIA0:  issue:6 > >                                                  ^0 > > $ {UCX/TCPIP}  SET INTERFACE IEA0 /HOST=<ip> > 9 > > It's not *obvious* from any of the documenation IIRC.8 > ! > Wow ! It works ! A miracle !!!!S >  > Many thanks.  G Note that in the documentation (on CD or WWW from the HP site etc) the 6G example makes it look like it should be /HOST=<name> but my experience tF is that this does not work!!!!!!!!!!  I think this is a real error in D the documentation and is quite serious since it will screw up TCPIP  communications!!!!!!!o   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:42:09 +0100 (MET)09 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.I Subject: terminal speeds (was: RE: Photographs of VMS booting on Itanium)s; Message-ID: <01KSJMJK5HMA9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  > > Many, if not most, terminals won't communicate at 115200bps. >  > Why should they? > @ > Nobody can type anything resembling that fast, even in bursts.I > Nobody can read anything resembling that fast as it scrolls by, either.e > H > 115200bps = 14400Bps = 180 lines at 80 characters per line per second.G > Very few printers can print that fast (its nearly 3 pages per second. I > or 180 pages per minute, if the data really is 80 characters per line -n/ > more if it has any narrower lines that that).-  H I used to do a lot of stuff with Fortran programmes doing graphics on a F terminal (ReGis, IIRC).  Admittedly it was a Falco not a VT.  In such 2 contexts, higher speeds might be more appropriate.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 21:25:07 -08002 From: cwhii_google_spam@yahoo.com (C.W.Holeman II)* Subject: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE= Message-ID: <77555df7.0302172125.580479f8@posting.google.com>    What is Unix for:u    $ SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETEe   -- C.W.Holeman II cwhii@5Julian5Locals.com Remove the fives.f# http://www.MistyMountain.org/~cwhiig   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2003 02:39 CDTh' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsm- Message-ID: <18FEB200302390571@gerg.tamu.edu>   2 Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes... }OpenVMS7.2-1,% }Tru64 v4.x or 5.x (don't know which)o } C }We've been working with some new fibre storage, and doing some I/O H }timings. And I've run across something that I hope somebody can explain }it. } B }One of the timing tests was to write a 2Gig text file. A simple CI }program was written, and compiled on both platforms. Both platforms wereu  }attached to the same storage. ( } F }On Tru64, the run time was about 30 seconds. On VMS it was 2 minutes. } H }On another test, Tru64 copied that same 2Gig file to another version of4 }itself in 20 seconds, while VMS took over a minute. }  }Why the disparity?3 }  }Lyndont  H On VMS the data is on the disk's platter when it is done - it doesn't doH write-back caching and it turns of the on-disk cache (but probably can'tH change the caching that some of these fibre controllers do on their own,E you'd have to configure that yourself). On Tru64 there may be a chunk-J of data in some cache somewhere along the way unless you are very carefullD about your configuration and flushing it to disk. On the other hand,A I might expect it to be a larger disparity if that were the case.s  J The VMS C RTL and such have gotten better performance in recent years, butH it still doesn't do much multibuffering and such by default (although itJ is a lot better than it used to be). If you apply some optional qualifiersJ to your [f]open() you can probably improve the throughput on VMS, possibly
 considerably.o  . Some possibilities which might narrow the gap:  ; fopen(name, mode, "ALQ=32", "DEQ=4096", "MBF=6", "MBC=128",e&      "FOP=cbt,tef,sqo", "ROP=rah,wbh")  G Depending on what you are doing, some of these may not be appropriate -e( but in this case they are probably fine.   Give it a try and compare.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:07:14 +0100s6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings-) Message-ID: <3E5221F2.9040404@vajhoej.dk>    Lyndon Bartels wrote:lC > One of the timing tests was to write a 2Gig text file. A simple CsJ > program was written, and compiled on both platforms. Both platforms were! > attached to the same storage. (e > G > On Tru64, the run time was about 30 seconds. On VMS it was 2 minutes.a > I > On another test, Tru64 copied that same 2Gig file to another version of'5 > itself in 20 seconds, while VMS took over a minute.i  < On explanation could be that Unix traditionally cache writes while VMS does not.o  = So the Unix file may actually still be in memory on the Alphas? when the program completes while when the VMS program completeso  then the data are on the plates.    And thereby skewing the results.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:41:51 -0600 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingse. Message-ID: <3E51D5AF.3C3BBF8B@pressenter.com>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:n >    I wanted to add a few things.s  4 My VMS system is an ES40, (667 Mhz, 4 cpu, 6Gig Mem)< The Tru64 system is an ES45, (1Ghz, 3 or 4 cpu, mem unknown)  D I didn't include it originally, because I wouldn't think it'd make aH difference. I was thinking. "It shouldn't matter.... Both computers needH to write the exact same amount of data, in the exact same format, to theH exact same type of storage.... The I/O should be the bottleneck, and CPU( performance, shouldn't be an influence."    G When I rewrote the program to use system services, I did the work on my H PWS. I ran the tests on my PWS, testing some direct attached SCSI JBODs.E While I knew that these numbers wouldn't compare to the ES40 and it'soF fibre storage, I wanted to test old versus new programs. And they were roughly the same.   E While they were running, I monitored the process doing the test "SHOWeF PROC/CONT" and it wasn't CPU bound at all. Direct I/O and Buffered I/O5 were mounting, and CPU usage increased, but not much.n  B Next I tried various changes to my UAF record, seeing if differentF quotas made any difference..... Not really. Everything seemed bound toD how fast the disk could write the data. When the disk activity light went out, the test concluded.:     THANKS,d   Lyndon   -- eG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of mye	 employer.n    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:13:13 +0100e6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingst) Message-ID: <3E523F79.3000204@vajhoej.dk>f   Lyndon Bartels wrote:n > I wanted to add a few things.e > 6 > My VMS system is an ES40, (667 Mhz, 4 cpu, 6Gig Mem)> > The Tru64 system is an ES45, (1Ghz, 3 or 4 cpu, mem unknown) > F > I didn't include it originally, because I wouldn't think it'd make aJ > difference. I was thinking. "It shouldn't matter.... Both computers needJ > to write the exact same amount of data, in the exact same format, to theJ > exact same type of storage.... The I/O should be the bottleneck, and CPU* > performance, shouldn't be an influence."  @ No but whether there are 2 GB of memory available for disk cache is very important on Tru64 !   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 06:24:20 -0800+ From: seanobanion@attbi.com (Sean O'Banion)t) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingso= Message-ID: <f883d5a4.0302180624.54188051@posting.google.com>s  @ It sounds like the Direct IO Limit ( DIOLM ) was reached for theF account you used for the tests.  If you logged into an account and ran> the test from the command line, check the DIOLM value for thatE account.  If you used a batch job or a detached job ... come back and ? let us know: checking for DIOLM in those cases is a little morey complicated.  3 I think I would start with DIOLM at at least 1000. uE Then I would double DIOLM, and run the test: repeat until there is not! change in the timing of the test.e  E The purpose of limiting a process' IO is to prevent a process, or onebC user, from consuming the entire system.  For your test, that's justoE what you want to do, so the limit can be very high.  Actually running < a system with production accounts set this high must be done4 carefully, or you will get inconsistent performance.     Sean    c Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message news:<3E513FE5.5D37F51@pressenter.com>...t > OpenVMS7.2-1, & > Tru64 v4.x or 5.x (don't know which) > D > We've been working with some new fibre storage, and doing some I/OI > timings. And I've run across something that I hope somebody can explaint > it.s > C > One of the timing tests was to write a 2Gig text file. A simple C)J > program was written, and compiled on both platforms. Both platforms were! > attached to the same storage. (p > G > On Tru64, the run time was about 30 seconds. On VMS it was 2 minutes.) > I > On another test, Tru64 copied that same 2Gig file to another version of 5 > itself in 20 seconds, while VMS took over a minute.k >  >  >  > Why the disparity? >  >  >  > H > I don't know enough about the internals of either OS to come up with a	 > reason.< > J > One though I has was that the fopen(), fprintf(), and fclose() functionsI > weren't all that efficient. So I rewrote the procedure with sys$open(),nI > sys$connect(), sys$put(), and sys$close() calls. The time was about theh& > same. Only a few seconds difference. >  >  > Any thoughts at all? >  >  > Thanks in advance, >  > Lyndon   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:13:40 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h< Subject: Re: VMS documentation (OT feeble attempt at humour); Message-ID: <01KSJJGBO1UA9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F > "The Voynich Manuscript(VMS) has been deemed first time as "The MostE > Mysterious Manuscript in the World" by Harper's Monthly magazine in H > 1921. The manuscript is a 246 page quarto which is relatively small inE > dimensions, 15 by 22 centimeters and accumulates around 40 thousandoI > words[1]. 33 pages contain text only, 212 with text and drawings[2].=20-  , Yes, I ran across that a while back as well.  * > at http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~tugba/voynich/ >=20+ > I think it must have been the teco manuali  J This suspicion can be confirmed if you find a drawing of a lawnmower in=20J it.  (Segue into the Twilight Zone theme music and perhaps a picture of=20 Erich von D=E4niken.)i   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 08:23:18 -0800L From: onnowel@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?onnowel@=A4NOSPAM=A4hotmail.com?=) Subject: VMS Jobs in Norway?= Message-ID: <1f0fde55.0302170823.7cf16dd2@posting.google.com>M  
 Hi Newsgroup!a  E I am looking for VMS jobs in Norway. I just have some trouble findingeB them. Does anybody know about any firms doing anything with VMS at all?    Information greatly appreciated.   Onno.c   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2003 08:51:00 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)7  Subject: wwidmgr - (SRM Console)= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0302180851.11d67f07@posting.google.com>s  6 The SRM console has been getting *way* out of control.  + wwidmgr - did this come from play school???F  + OK, we lost support for new devices (or anyo, support) for the PC164, however this tool is0 plain *offensive* trying to set up a boot device& on an 8400. I'd prefer to set up a new Window(tm) box...    P00>>>wwidmgr -showc qualifier value not found  P00>>>wwidmgr -helpu unrecognized qualifiersx P00>>>wwidmgr -show port [0] 1000-0000-c930-429eG ....  * Does the syntax here bother anyone??? I've* got a few hours before dawn to get a Tru64 system to boot.c  * I tested OpenVMS first on this RA8000 - no+ problems - as you would expect (The OpenVMS  box was not the 8400 however).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:16:21 GMT.L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"), Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI6 Message-ID: <00A1BA84.931DA55F@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Y In article <1030218053328.15004A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:h. >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > > >> Here is another bug for someone with a support contract ;-) >>  , >> $ write sys$output f$gets("CPU_FAILOVER") >> aE >>   Improperly handled condition, bad stack or no handler specified.j4 >>     Signal arguments:   Number = 00000000000000054 >>                         Name   = 000000000000000C4 >>                                  00000000000000044 >>                                  000000007FFAE0004 >>                                  FFFFFFFF800078EC4 >>                                  0000000000000012 >JE >Replicated on a AlphaServer 200 4/100, V7.3-1, with same set of ECOs B >plus VMS731_SYS-v0100 (which has been replaced by V0200, but thatD >causes problems on uniprocessors) and on an DEC 3000 Model 300 with >V7.3 and all current ECOs.: >s1 >Register contents are similar but not identical.0 >E  J Replicated on 7.2-2, all current patches, on Islandco noname workstation, 8 and on unpatched 7.2-2 on single processor AS2100 4/275.   -- Alany    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056lM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================y   ------------------------------   Date: 18 FEB 2003 16:01:36 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher), Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI6 Message-ID: <18FEB03.16013692@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  - On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:a  > -> Here is another bug for someone with a support contract ;-) -> f, -> $ write sys$output f$gets("CPU_FAILOVER") -> ...) ->%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, ...   
 On V7.3-1:  > Verified on AS 1200/533 with 2 CPU's and AS 1000A 5/300 (EV56)  % Doesn't happen on an ES40/833 (EV68).s   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone6 --               karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:55:07 +0000 (UTC)R, From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis), Subject: Re: [VMS V7.3-1] ACCVIO in F$GETSYI. Message-ID: <b2ts1r$lfc$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes in article <FUl4a.8273$AH2.116351@news.chello.at> dated Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:11:17 GMT:< >Here is another bug for someone with a support contract ;-) >-* >$ write sys$output f$gets("CPU_FAILOVER") > C >  Improperly handled condition, bad stack or no handler specified.i  J The problem exists on all 7.3 systems I checked, but the 7.2-1 systems are fine.e  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgu> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.096 ************************