0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 99      Contents:P Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft  MonopolP "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. Re: accounting problem Re: accounting problem. An interesting view on the Linux support trend! Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails ! Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails * Breaking out too many times causes a crash Re: connect via. FTP Re: connect via. FTP Re: connect via. FTP5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 7 Re: DECWindows Motif on a DS10L without a graphics card - Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface. 1 Re: Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface. ( Re: fun with F$FAO and the !AD directive Re: GCC for VMS ( Re: How do I join the domain with Samba?( Re: How do I join the domain with Samba?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems P Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a marketfor it" forH RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolG Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly G RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly G Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly P Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly IBMmonop  Re: INGRES/VMS to UNIX migration' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' RE: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix / Re: JF Mezei security alert at Montreal airport ( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing- Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 , Re: OpenVMS.org: OpenVMS Itanium Boot SurveyD Re: Pathworks ACL entries impact PCSI and system boot during upgrade$ Pathwors MacIntosh - %MSAP-E-PAPCONN( Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to Itanium( Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to Itanium( Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to ItaniumP Press Release from Fortel - FORTEL Extends the Capabilities of the Sightline Ope' Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate. ' Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate. # Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate. ' Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate. ' Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate. + Re: Restore of System to a different Server  stupid batch job question  Re: stupid batch job question  The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS% Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE % RE: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE % Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE  Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5  Watcher doubts What happened to Microsoft ?  RE: What happened to Microsoft ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:55:56 -0000 D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft  Monopol 2 Message-ID: <1045688138.884773@saucer.planet.gong>  6 "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message# news:3E5386E7.B799F085@yahoo.com...  > Russell Wallace wrote:I > > Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-built J > > Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :) > ? > Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer.    Never forget this one :   2 "Don't trust a computer that's too heavy to lift."   Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:42:23 GMT ) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> Y Subject: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. ) Message-ID: <3E5386E7.B799F085@yahoo.com>    Russell Wallace wrote:G > Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-built H > Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :)  = Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:25:18 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: accounting problem = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302191425.66cf3e88@posting.google.com>   f "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> wrote in message news:<012b01c2d651$52fb6f60$3c03e980@bofpc>...L > lets suppose that some one tries to run some  system admin's commands like2 > authorize and ncp by using a privilized account.M > moreover to conceal his time of doing so, he changed the system time at the D > time of executing these commands and then restored the system timeL > afterwards,  so that by running accounting he cannot be traced even though! > the "set" entry will be logged.  > < > he has not created a new accounting file by set/acc = new. > K > my question is IS IT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY THE ENTRIES OF THE ACCOUNTING.DAT I > FILE SO THAT THEY CAN BE FAKED OR  MANUPULAED IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE / > ABOVE CRUDE METHORD THAT OUR INTRUDER TRIED ?  > any suggetions ? > thanks in advance .  > Arindam Paul  @ Did you check for out-of-order entries in OPERATOR.LOG or in theC system error log? How about the modification dates of DECnet files?    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 19:27:50 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: accounting problem = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302191927.4becf673@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0302191425.66cf3e88@posting.google.com>... h > "Arindam" <arindam-dsp@sail-steel.com> wrote in message news:<012b01c2d651$52fb6f60$3c03e980@bofpc>...N > > lets suppose that some one tries to run some  system admin's commands like4 > > authorize and ncp by using a privilized account.O > > moreover to conceal his time of doing so, he changed the system time at the F > > time of executing these commands and then restored the system timeN > > afterwards,  so that by running accounting he cannot be traced even though# > > the "set" entry will be logged.  > > > > > he has not created a new accounting file by set/acc = new. > > M > > my question is IS IT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY THE ENTRIES OF THE ACCOUNTING.DAT K > > FILE SO THAT THEY CAN BE FAKED OR  MANUPULAED IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN THE 1 > > ABOVE CRUDE METHORD THAT OUR INTRUDER TRIED ?  > > any suggetions ? > > thanks in advance .  > > Arindam Paul > B > Did you check for out-of-order entries in OPERATOR.LOG or in theE > system error log? How about the modification dates of DECnet files?   B Uh, cancel that second question. If the intruder changed the time, then well, duh!   F Is this an actual intrusion that actually took place or are you making up a scenario?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 03:53:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 7 Subject: An interesting view on the Linux support trend H Message-ID: <TiY4a.18809$Zr%.18437@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  + http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/142    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:25:24 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) * Subject: Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails, Message-ID: <ovT4a.5$HS3.2@news.cpqcorp.net>  g In article <6f29699e.0302180759.3bc69e61@posting.google.com>, dennisb@wvhmhc.org (Dennis Baker) writes: F :We've recently added /ignore=interlock to our backup command files inE :an attempt to get copies of open user files.  Yes, we are aware that ( :this could lead to "inconsistencies".    D   Then you don't yet fully understand the qualifier -- the qualifierD   actually means something approaching "accept anything, even acceptD   nothing, and don't always warn the user on any particular incidentD   of data corruption".  These interlocks were implemented for a goodA   reason, and overriding these should be performed only with full 8   knowledge of the function performed by the interlocks.  F   (This XQP file interlocking and the cluster quorum scheme are two ofE   the most mis-understood features of OpenVMS, and both of these were G   implemented to prevent silent disk data corruptions.  But I digress.)   C   I've a problem report lodged against the documentation, detailing E   exactly how hazardous this particular qualifier actually is -- most D   folks assume that this qualifier performs something approaching anA   on-line BACKUP of active files and -- bluntly -- the "distance" B   between that assumption and what this qualifier actually does isF   very large.  The wording of the documentation in an upcoming release    will be rather more draconian.  D   I see both OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 and V6.2 referenced, but no specificC   statement of the version and ECO level in use.  There are various E   BACKUP ECO kits available, I'd certainly start with the application A   of these and of any and all other mandatory patch kits for the  D   particular OpenVMS release in use here.  This includes patches forG   BACKUP and also the installation of all mandatory OpenVMS patch kits. H   (This problem sounds vaguely familiar, but without knowing the version
   details...)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:56:36 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) * Subject: Re: BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK fails- Message-ID: <r1KxS5W4lsDM@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>   , In article <ovT4a.5$HS3.2@news.cpqcorp.net>,)     hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   H > :We've recently added /ignore=interlock to our backup command files inG > :an attempt to get copies of open user files.  Yes, we are aware that * > :this could lead to "inconsistencies".   > E >   I've a problem report lodged against the documentation, detailing G >   exactly how hazardous this particular qualifier actually is -- most F >   folks assume that this qualifier performs something approaching an" >   on-line BACKUP of active files  ?      As we've heard before in this ng, there's no such thing as N      an "on-line backup of active files" unless it includes full participation5      from the applications that write to those files.   $ >   and -- bluntly -- the "distance"D >   between that assumption and what this qualifier actually does isH >   very large.  The wording of the documentation in an upcoming release" >   will be rather more draconian. > H      Any chance you could post the wording or details, or give a pointer!      to where we might find them?   E      I'm curious what sort of problems one might encounter other than F      the obvious ones that have been beaten to death here ( open filesE      may be in an "unusable" state due to application design; updates G      to the file while it's being backed up can lead to an inconsistant H      structure such as only part of a bucket being updated in an indexed      file ).  M      It appears one only gets the ACCONFLICT warning if the other process(es) E      which has the file open is running on the same node. Does BACKUP I      still use the XQP to access the file when you use /IGNORE=INTERLOCK?   F      ISTM one should use /VERIFY if one uses /IGN=INTERLOCK ( actuallyM      I'd say one should *always* use /VERIFY ). Any file which has VERIFYERRs $      would need further examination.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:39:48 -0800$ From: rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan)3 Subject: Breaking out too many times causes a crash = Message-ID: <fbcf38dc.0302191439.39ed4cc5@posting.google.com>   B We were having a problem with one of our applications where if theF customer broke out in the middle of things, it would leave things in aF bad state.  While I was trying to track down the problem by repeatedlyC breaking out, I started having a different problem.  After breaking F out several (say, 10 to 20) times in a row, my CLI session would crashD and when I tried to run anything else, it would be disconnected withC the same error. I was able to reproduce it with a simple C program:    main() {          while(1);  }    compiled and linked as:    cc/noopt loopy.c
 link loopy   The crash looks like:    LCVMS9[rcbryan]: r loopy
  Interrupt    B   Improperly handled condition, bad stack or no handler specified.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005 1                         Name   = 000000000000000C 1                                  0000000000000004 1                                  000000007FFA5F70 1                                  000000007AFB0188 1                                  0000000000000012        Register dump:9     R0  = 0000000000000012  R1  = 000000007AF54A48  R2  =  000000007AF54A28 <<<<snip>>>>9     SP  = 000000007FFAE000  PC  = 000000007AFB0188  PS  =  0000000000000012C %SYSTEM-F-BADSTACK, bad stack encountered during exception dispatch   D I have since checked other systems and it happens on everything from V7.1 to V7.3-1.    Comment anybody?   Thanks, 	 /RC Bryan    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:57:01 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: connect via. FTP , Message-ID: <1ZT4a.8$HS3.0@news.cpqcorp.net>  W In article <1045648693.560354@krakonosovo>, "Jiri Koutnik" <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz> writes:   3 :perhaps simple thing to solve it, but cant get it.   C   As others have stated, please provide details when posting -- the A   FAQ has a list of information that is often useful to the folks C   answering the questions, such as the OpenVMS version and (in this    case) IP stack and version.   ?   One- or two-line questions are hideously difficult to answer.    :nodeXXX> ftp nodeYYY < :%SYSTEM -F-LCKPAGFUL, no more pages may be locked in memory  G   The following is a guess: your process probably lacks process working D   set quota or (less likely, but still very possible) your system isB   exhausting its available physical memory (or related) resources.  C   The usual answers are to check the amount of physical memory that E   is configured, the amount of memory that is in use, and the process C   working set quotas.  If you increase the working set quotas or if B   you add memory, you'll also want to have your system manager (ifJ   that is not you) run a full pass of the AUTOGEN utility (with FEEDBACK).  ?   Also see HELP/MESSAGE LCKPAGFUL, as others have pointed to...   H   If you are not presently running OpenVMS VAX V7.3 with ECOs or OpenVMSE   Alpha V7.2-2 or V7.3-1 with ECOs and TCP/IP Services V5.3 with ECO, E   please get there.  (If this is a third-party IP stack, please check ;   with the vendor for details and version recommendations.)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:58:54 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: connect via. FTP . Message-ID: <b3127d$35d$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes in article <e9Ql4gQRQV8D@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 19 Feb 2003 08:41:28 -0600: X >In article <1045649709.419043@krakonosovo>, "Jiri Koutnik" <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz> writes:  >> But how to unlock the pages ?J >> Im not so strong in MEM area, could you give any sugesstion ? thank you >>   > G >   You don't.  Your FTP client or something in your IP stack is trying A >   to lock pages.  When FTP fails and exits any pages which were & >   successfully locked should unlock. > G >   Either there is a bug in privileged software (less likely), or your B >   system isn't tuned to allow a reasonable number of pages to be >   locked (more likely).   J Just to advance this thread to the point of being marginally helpful, I'll chime in...   F I believe SS$_LCKPAGFUL can only come from SYS$LCKPAG.  There may be aD system parameter (sorry I don't know which one, try AUTOGEN) you canI increase to get more lockable pages, or processes you can kill to release  some which are locked.    + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 08:41:28 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: connect via. FTP 3 Message-ID: <e9Ql4gQRQV8D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <1045649709.419043@krakonosovo>, "Jiri Koutnik" <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz> writes:  > But how to unlock the pages ? I > Im not so strong in MEM area, could you give any sugesstion ? thank you  >   F    You don't.  Your FTP client or something in your IP stack is trying@    to lock pages.  When FTP fails and exits any pages which were%    successfully locked should unlock.   F    Either there is a bug in privileged software (less likely), or yourA    system isn't tuned to allow a reasonable number of pages to be     locked (more likely).  H    What version of VMS and which IP stack you're using would be helpfull.    info.  Please see the FAQ notes on posting.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:37:27 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch1 Message-ID: <HGT4a.6093$Rb4.92167@news.chello.at>   ` In article <17FEB03.17020423@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:= >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: = >Btw - TCPIP will be automatically started by the presence of A >SYS$MANAGER:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM.  You won't want to start  >both TCPIP and MultiNet.   & I've both TCPware and TCPIP installed.= I've also SYS$MANAGER:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM on my system 7 I've yet to see TCPware or TCPIP automatically start...   F Above command file only registers (or updates) the (SYS$NET*) logicalsK from and for the START/NETWORK, STOP/NETWORK and SET&SHOW NETWORK commands. E It is (like all similar) called from SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES.COM H which is called from SYS$STARTUP:VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM (and starts DECnet-Plus afterwards).  J You have to start "TCP/IP" (who in the hell decided to use a slash in thisC keyword ??) or "DECNET" or even "TCPWARE" (yes, PSC did support the G START/NETWORK with TCPware just from the beginning of this new command)   K So, don't use 'START/NET MULTINET' (I assume PSC did the same for Multinet) H and 'START/NET "TCP/IP"' at the same time. Otherwise it is no problem...   fwiw   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:42:00 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch1 Message-ID: <YKT4a.6200$Rb4.92167@news.chello.at>   q In article <DTT6Ces6IIl$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: F >   The combination of the latest kernel and ucxdriver patches seem toH >   have cured it.  Felt so good, I downloaded most of the other patchesD >   for 4.3.  Just had to remember to reinstall MULTINET:USER.CLD inG >   DCLTABLES tso that telnet would be Multinet's telnet and not DEC's.   L That reminds my of another advantage of TCPware: It uses symbols, not verbs.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:35:56 +0100 ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> @ Subject: Re: DECWindows Motif on a DS10L without a graphics card8 Message-ID: <2i275vsra0ivc563nm8doqq0h2ldujrk08@4ax.com>  P On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 18:18:56 +0100, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote:  2 >TRAWINSKI (robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl) wrote: >> Billy Bobette2002 wrote: I >> > Given this hardware setup is it possible to install some software on J >> > my PC to act as the Motif Windows Manager and use my PC as the front- >> > end to VMS ?  >...9 >> If you've got TCPIP v.5.3 you can turn on XDM services  >>
 >> $ TCPIP >> TCPIP > ENABLE SERVICE XDM  > A >...and have to read the appropriate chapter of the Compaq TCP/IP D >Services manual. You have to set up some config file for it to work8 >(sorry to be fuzzy - no 5.3 manual in sight right now).  P You should use TCPIP$CONFIG.COM to turn on XDM as this creates a user TCPIP$XDM,8 directory & template files besides enabling the service.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:27:04 +0100 . From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>6 Subject: Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface.: Message-ID: <3e53f63d$0$131$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>   Hello everybody.  I The TELNET function CREATE_SESSION can be used to create a TNAxx: device, E which functions as a terminal device under VMS, but communicates data K through a TCP connection to a node/port, which is specified as arguments to  CREATE_SESSION.   E I assume, that TELNET actually implements this using some specialized K SYS$QIO operations towards TNADRIVER, probably involving TNA0:, which is an L offline template device. Of course, if a different method is used I would be* equally interested in learning about this.  L Is this documented anywhere, and/or is there anyone out there, who knows how it is done?        Many thanks in advance     Jesper Naur    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:16:06 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) : Subject: Re: Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface.- Message-ID: <q%V4a.20$7W3.9@news.cpqcorp.net>   k In article <3e53f63d$0$131$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>, "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> writes:   J :The TELNET function CREATE_SESSION can be used to create a TNAxx: device,F :which functions as a terminal device under VMS, but communicates dataL :through a TCP connection to a node/port, which is specified as arguments to :CREATE_SESSION.  E   What are you up to?  (And what are the versions of OpenVMS and IP?)   F :I assume, that TELNET actually implements this using some specializedL :SYS$QIO operations towards TNADRIVER, probably involving TNA0:, which is anM :offline template device. Of course, if a different method is used I would be + :equally interested in learning about this.   E   The underlying mechanism likely a channel assignment to TNA0: which C   clones a UCB, then the driver increments the channel count stored    within the UCB.   D   As for the specific TNDRIVER $qio, I do not have an example handy.  F   Based on a quick check of the TCP/IP release notes for V5.0 -- donnoF   where in the full manuals this documentation has eventually ended upG   located -- it appears that the option you want is TN$M_PERMANENT_UCB. G   (This item is listed in a table of TNDRIVER $qio interface itemcodes,    and probably elsewhere.)  G   The IP manuals are available in the same area as the OpenVMS manuals, F   see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) or the main OpenVMS2   website for pointers to these and other manuals.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:57:34 +0100 0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>1 Subject: Re: fun with F$FAO and the !AD directive . Message-ID: <DUN4a.58$a83.54@news.cpqcorp.net>  H "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD> wrote in message- news:VkpxbflTeWWj@eisner.encompasserve.org... I > I've been trying to use F$FAO and the (undocumented but referenced in a G DSIN> $ write sys$output f$cvui( 0, 32, f$fao( "!AD", 4, %x81b50fa0 ) ) = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000003( > 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFABBF0C > $ write sys$output f$cvui( 0, 32, f$fao( "!AD", 4, %x81b50fa4 ) ) = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000003( > 8248, PC=0000000000110001, PS=7FFABBF0   Hello    reason mask=00 so; means the PTE protection code prohibits the intended access 3 means the virtual address itself was not accessible    So you are unlucky :-)   regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:44:10 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: GCC for VMS' Message-ID: <3E52EF7A.41DD05CE@fsi.net>    Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Kesav Tadimeti wrote:  > > Hello folks,N > > 1. I would like to know if there is a site where I can download the latestL > > version of GCC for OpenVMS Alpha. I am using VMS  7.3 on a DS10, (EV67). > > P > > I could not find a GCC binary for VMS on GNU's site. Please can anyone pointD > > me the URL? If not is there any other free C++ compiler for VMS? > 4 > That may not be so simple to get working properly. > 1 > A copy of the old PROGIS stuff is available at: 2 >    ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/gcc-for-alpha/  F The last GCC version for Alpha, 2.8.0 was known to generate bad object code. Use caution.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 20:28:27 -0800$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)1 Subject: Re: How do I join the domain with Samba? = Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0302192028.69580d3e@posting.google.com>   i john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm) wrote in message news:<c67e4bdd.0302190652.3980544e@posting.google.com>...  > Also,  > G > [2003/02/19 09:23:57, 1] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]SERVER.C;2:(643)  >   smbd version 2.0.6 started. ' >   Copyright Andrew Tridgell 1992-1998  > [2003/02/19 09:24:03, 0]5 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(118) ) >   trust_password_lock: cannot open file 2 > SAMBA_ROOT/VAR/PRIVATE/mydomain.mycomputer.mac -& > Error was no such file or directory. > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]5 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(287) G >   domain_client_validate: unable to open the machine account password  > file for m& > achine mymachine in domain mydomain.G > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SEC.C;2:(52) A >   Failed to set uid privileges to (-1,3735552) now set to (0,0)  > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]0 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(2456) >   PANIC: failed to set uid > G > if you look, you will see that it is looking for a file in the format F > xxx.xxx.xxx and I don't think OpenVMS supports that.  In the privateE > directory, there is a file call mydomain__2Emymachine.mac, that was 4 > created with the command "smbpasswd -j mydomain -r- > my_windows_2000_machine" domain controller.  > , > The machine.sid is also not being created. > A > Was I not supposed to join the domain this way?  How do I do it 1 > properly?  Any help is appreciated.  Thank you.  >   > OpenVMS 7.2-1 and Samba 2.0.6.  : I think it hates Windows 2000.  It stays in RWAST forever.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:41:05 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 1 Subject: Re: How do I join the domain with Samba? = Message-ID: <B%Y4a.11820$jR3.6081369@news1.news.adelphia.net>   	 jm wrote:  > Also,  > G > [2003/02/19 09:23:57, 1] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]SERVER.C;2:(643)  >   smbd version 2.0.6 started. ' >   Copyright Andrew Tridgell 1992-1998  > [2003/02/19 09:24:03, 0]5 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(118) ) >   trust_password_lock: cannot open file 2 > SAMBA_ROOT/VAR/PRIVATE/mydomain.mycomputer.mac -& > Error was no such file or directory.  & Or no access to the file or directory.  I I was not able to test that feature of SAMBA 2.0.6.  It says that in the   readme file.   > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]5 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(287) G >   domain_client_validate: unable to open the machine account password  > file for m& > achine mymachine in domain mydomain.G > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SEC.C;2:(52) A >   Failed to set uid privileges to (-1,3735552) now set to (0,0)  > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]0 > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(2456) >   PANIC: failed to set uid  H The panic is likely because it attempted to find a UAF account to match G the machine account.  There must be an account existing in the UAF for  & the password lookup API's to function.  I Also SAMBA seems to also test that the default directory for the account RE exists, and that the account has access to it before setting the UID.:  ? SAMBA also requires that the UIC's in the rightslist.dat match e sysuaf.dat usernames.e    G > if you look, you will see that it is looking for a file in the formatKF > xxx.xxx.xxx and I don't think OpenVMS supports that.  In the privateE > directory, there is a file call mydomain__2Emymachine.mac, that wasi4 > created with the command "smbpasswd -j mydomain -r- > my_windows_2000_machine" domain controller.h  C The FRONTPORT library converts files from UNIX formats to an ODS-2  F format, as long as the resulting file ends up being in a 39.39 format.3 The first "." in the filename is converted to __2E.   , > The machine.sid is also not being created.  > I am surprised that the machine.sid file is not being created.  A > Was I not supposed to join the domain this way?  How do I do itn1 > properly?  Any help is appreciated.  Thank you.a >   > OpenVMS 7.2-1 and Samba 2.0.6.  H You may want to look into the 2.2.x port.  Search the SAMBA-VMS mailing I list archives for information on the download site.  It is a dynamic DNS mF location and is not always available.  So if it is not reachable, try I again a little later.  I have not done anything with the 2.2.x port, but e$ it seems to be getting a lot of use.   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyc   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:12:36 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)e? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?M. Message-ID: <EGQ4a.91$Uw3.58@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 In article <N+f4vT0BYszu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:o  F >I would not dare to try restoring a system disk not backed up /IMAGE. >MK >I would suggest reinstalling VMS and then restoring your application filesp >to the newly created disk.   G Larry has given you the excellent advice.  It may seem like more work, aH but in the long run it will almost certainly be less.  And it WILL work.K Rebuilding a system disk from a non-image backup may be possible in theory.AH In reality, it is very, very likely that you will not get it right.  TheH worst part of this is that you may be able to boot and it may look O.K.,= but sometime in the future you will uncover serious problems.   F Oh, yes -- BEFORE you re-store or re-build your system, get the backup; procedure fixed so that you will not face this issue again.o   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:34:12 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?t. Message-ID: <3E53EA42.AEBC433@vl.videotron.ca>  J One thing to look for: in your current backup (/noimage), is the /ALIAS orN /NOALIAS used in the command line ?  If there is the /NOALIAS, then you may be1 lucky and have only one single copy of the files.   N Another thing to watch out for is that with /NOIMAGE, your restored files willD have different file-id. Any submitted jobs will need to be requeued.  L If you are very concerned, you could take the B saveset of VMS distribution,N then BACKLUP/IMAGE to the disk drive to give that drive a basic VMS structure.K Then you could use your /NOIMAGE backup to restore the rest of your system,rE then purge the drive to remove duplicated files (and then wite_boot).5  H When you restore, because the alias directories already exist, restoring[ [sys0.syscommon.sysexe]dir.exe will simply overwrite the "real" copy in [vms$common.sysexe]M   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:16:23 GMTM# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)s? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup? , Message-ID: <bfU4a.9$HS3.8@news.cpqcorp.net>  u In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE51@tahiti.tinuk.com>, "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:D  I :I have a diskless system which boots over the network from another node.sI :The backup of this disk is done on the holding node, and a single backupAI :command does all the remote systems locally mounted disks. UnfortunatelyD: :the backup command is just a normal backup [no /IMAGE]...  E   If the satellite is diskless, then there is no system on the targetmC   disk -- and in the most common case, there are no file aliases or D   other trivia residing on the target disk.  Usually, only the page,H   swap, and dump files, and anything cached locally exist on the disk(s)   of the satellite.M  E   Reconstituting such a disk is usually little more than a file-basedrD   restore, after an INIT of the target disk.  (BACKUP/IMAGE providesD   the disk initialization for you, unless you use /NOINIT.)  As partD   of the manual INITIALIZE, take this opportunity to set the maximumD   headers value and other settings such as the cluster size for your   requirements.e  ?   On recent OpenVMS Alpha systems, I tend to use the following:e  =     INIT ddcu: label/HEADERS=big/CLUSTER=1/STRUCTURE=5/SYSTEM-  I :The backup will copy the aliased files [SYS$COMMON, VMS$COMMON etc] into-I :the saveset doubly, so a restore to this disk will likely fill it beforeeG :completion. How can I get around this? And is restoring the ALIAS easye :enough to do?  C   *I* think that this system disk linkage stuff is pretty easy, but:(   then, I've been at this a while... :-)  C   The following applies to local copies of system disks, and not to D   satellite downloads -- satellite downloads have their system filesB   elsewhere, and download these bootstrap files first via MOP and B   then -- once OpenVMS is booting -- via the cluster SCS services.  % :I guess I'll need to run WRITEBLOCK?   C   You will need to WRITEBOOT the resulting system disk for specificDD   system consoles accessing directly-booted disks.  WRITEBOOT is not!   needed for satellite downloads.e  0 :Can anyone think of anything else I need to do?  B   All of the alias entries will need to be reset -- this is all of@   the SYSCOMMON.DIR files (to VMS$COMMON.DIR).    The command isB   SET FILE, and you'll need to pick a directory containing the new>   master set of files and use it as the SET FILE/ENTER source.D   When you are done, you can remove the old (non-alias) directories.B   (This approach gets to be "fun" if you are space constrained andC   have multiple directory aliases, as this can take multiple BACKUPmC   commands to roll such an environment back in -- the (appropriate) >   BACKUP/IMAGE command and its restoration really helps here.)  ?   You will also want to use DFU to get the backlinks corrected.t     You'll want:  !     @sys$system:setfilenomove.come  E   Most anything that was open and being actively written -- the queuetB   files, etc -- has a reasonable chance of being corrupt if BACKUPB   /IGNORE=INTERLOCK was used.  (I posted a reply to another thread@   that referenced this qualifier and its hazards earlier today.)D   You may (will?) need to reconstitute these (open-for-write) files.@   (This is why the off-line, standalone, or bootable environment*   is recommended for system disk BACKUPs.)  C   You'll want to fix the BACKUP procedure(s) to use the appropriate    (recommended) commands, too.  C   Also, you'll want to consider having local configuration files ineC   your own directory tree -- this makes reconstituting or adding oreD   reinstalling very easy.  (At worst, you get to replace the OpenVMSC   template startup files with links into your own startup files ande#   your own startup directory tree.)2  D   Me?  I'd take this as an opportunity to upgrade to or to reinstall)   a clean copy of OpenVMS on this system.u    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:22:40 GMTy# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?K. Message-ID: <4lU4a.12$HS3.11@news.cpqcorp.net>  c In article <N+f4vT0BYszu@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:a  F :I would not dare to try restoring a system disk not backed up /IMAGE. :mK :I would suggest reinstalling VMS and then restoring your application files  :to the newly created disk.-  G   Larry brings up a good point -- if you don't know how to do this, youiA   probably don't want to learn how in a production environment.     H   It is certainly safest to reinstall; to start over again.  (It is alsoF   a good opportunity to get to current versions and ECOs, and to get aG   set of good BACKUP/IMAGE savesets generated after you have completely..   (re)installed OpenVMS and the applications.)  H   Having reconstituted system disks on several occasions, it's certainlyE   not impossible to perform -- but you do need to know how to recovercF   from the inevitable file-open-for-write errors (eg: corruptions thatF   track back to the use of BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK) and you definitelyC   do need to know how to correctly reconstitute the alias directoryaH   linkages.  (Please see my previous reply in this thread for additional   details.)c    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:25:42 GMTR# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oD Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun MicrosystemsH Message-ID: <WSQ4a.16951$Zr%.14340@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageo0 news:b3075i$1gudp4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... > In article= <oDM4a.13677$b8v1.8546@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,3' > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:c > > = > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageg4 > > news:b2tk22$1g47dg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...' > >> >> Was CP/M really around in 1974?c > >>$ > >> From a history of Gary Kildall: > >>C > >>       "Gary had been doing his consulting and development workf undern: > >>        the name "MAA," or "Microcomputer Applications Associates." > > MAAc? > >>        (that is, Kildall) completed CP/M in 1974. It was al spartane9 > >>         system, containing only what was essential."d > >>F > >> >>                                 I thought the original articleD > >> >> about building your own computer using an 8008(?) in Popular+ > >> >> Electronics(?) was in Jan/Feb 1975,l > >>C > >> You have the date right, but are confused on some of the rest.p TheiD > >> machine was called The Altair 8800 and it used an 8080 cpu.  It was B > >> hardly the first microcomputer, but it was the first one that > > actuallyF > >> targeted "computer hobbyists" a genre that didn't really exist up > > til > > >> the point.  As a matter of fact, it was not even the only computerA > >> offered by Altair.  The also sold the Altair 680 at the sameo time.u@ > >> This was a machine based on the M6800.  Southwest Technical ProductsF > >> Also offered a M6800 based machine The SWTPC-6800 at least a yearB > >> before the Popular electronics article or MITS/Altair started > > sellingsD > >> their machines. (Just as a matter of curiosity, I still have my copy > >> of that magazine!)r > >> > > D > > I vaguely seem to recollect the SWTP machines - I was assembling kiteD > > computers around that time and SWTP rings a bell - were they the ones- > > in the long, skinny orange-ish metal box?r >aD > Don't remember as I never owned one of my own, although I remember5 > seeing them at various places I worked in the past.t >v > >nE > > I still have a M6800 system made by Midwest Scientific - actually, adA > > kit machine, with an 8" FDD. I designed and etched my own 16kl memoryF > > boards for that machine. Memory was wire-wrapped by hand on to the
 > > board. >sC > I would still love to get my hands on an Altair and an IMSAI as InE > still think of them fondly.  But, the few I have seen recently werek5 > sold for more than the last Cray XMP I saw go.  :-(- >-F > As another note of curiosity, I still have an un assembled XEROX-820F > circuit board at home.  I wonder if you could even buy all the chips > needed to build one today?    D Military surplus gear just getting swapped out for newer stuff oughtE to have what you want. Have your solder sucker handy to get the chips  off the boards.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:20:05 +0000c' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancysD Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems. Message-ID: <3E537675.7020507@nospamn.sun.com>   Andreas Davour wrote:'U > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy   <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:t >  >  >>Andreas Davour wrote:  >>- >>>Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:t6 >>>[sorry, I did miss once think I thought to comment] >>>d >>>nU >>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> writes:m >>> < >>>>>Sun is also the goose that lays the golden eggs for the< >>>>>Linux community. It is with StarOffice, NFS, Grid, JavaC >>>>>etc the most significant donor of technology to the OpenSourceb >>>>>community.i >>>>>l@ >>>>>Without Java for example Linux would be dead in Investement
 >>>>>Banking.e >>>>: >>>Check out what IBM is sharing with the Linux community.6 >>>I think they are the "good guys" in the eyes of the >>>Linux community these days. >> >>Yes but thats all BS.g >>C >>IBM have shared the JFS but then there are plenty of alternativesl= >>for this anyway almost everything else , DB2, WebSphere etc = >>which incedentally requires Java is for sale not for share.o >>= >>If this makes IBM the good guys to the opensource communitynA >>then it doesn't say very much thats good about their judgement.a >  > B > Maybe you feel it's just bullshit, but I surely see more coming A > from IBM if you count kernel patches. And considering that IBM aC > is phasing out AIX in favour of Linux sure tells me they are partpF > of the gang. Hell knows what Sun wants more that to protect Solaris. >   : That is entirely untrue. IBM's public statements about AIX? indicate that they expect it to be their high end UNIX offeringE: in 10 years time. A decade is a hell of a long time in the7 computer industry and if the statements subtext is thaty< they are phasing out AIX in 11 years time in favour of Linux= well sorry but that is just too far off to have any relevancea at all.b  A How about listing IBM's contributions to the OpenSource communityBB I can easily list what Sun has donated both in terms of technology= and in terms of standards, for sale software like DB2, Tivolil; and WebSphere don't count and neither does Linux on zSerieso systems either.o  ; When you have you will find that its actually a pretty tinyr list.    > ? >>>If you didn't know, I can tell you that since Sun had such adC >>>block header attityde towards opening up Java to standardisation F >>>developers of Free Software have implemented their own JVM and base( >>>classes. What Sun have is a expensiveD >>>thing they call Enterprise Java, which isn't worth all that money
 >>>anyway. >>; >>Sort of the GCJ compiler supports most but not all of thec? >>Java 2 platform edition, its missing a bunch of functionalityy3 >>thats part of Java 2 and it way off J2EE support.  >  > B > That's because Free software takes time to do, it's not reading D > the specs and implementing. It's about re-inventing and expanding. > 
 > Just wait.   >  > @ >>Kaffe the only other clean room Java implimetation is limitted" >>to 1.1 personal edition support. >>: >>So neither versions are going to make much impact in the >>server side Java arena.  >  > D > Well, I have no problem using the Free JVM's for my tomcat server . > and I know it is used by serious businesses. >   , Which free JVM, the GNU one or the Sun one ?   > ? >>And how can Enteprise Java be expensive since we don't chargen? >>for the implimetation its free for Solaris, Windows and Linuxt >>from the www.java.comb >  > A > As I wrote to Arne, I have a recollection of J2EE fees of some ,B > kind, but I might have changed or I might have muddled memories. >   / There are no J2EE fees that have an impact on a00 user that is just downloading the J2EE reference	 software.v  . Of course if you buy WebSphere or BEA Weblogic. both of which are J2EE compatible applications/ servers then you will be charged by IBM or BEA.    > G >>>Don't you worry about Java, it's being taken care of, now it's Free.f >>>  >>; >>Well yes it is but only because of the Sun donation whichn4 >>is of course free and is a complete implimenation.; >>None of the other free JVM's are complete implimentations 6 >>so their cost or otherwise is hardly relevant is it. >  > B > It's not about costs. It's about Free as in freedom. That's the A > answer to your question about the Linux lure. You might do withi0 > it whatever you like, just share the changes.  >   5 Do you think that RedHat are sharing the changes theys5 make to Advanced Server with SuSE and the rest of thet Linux community ??  A > If Solaris became Free, and not just for free you might get thee? > same effect. Heck, I did a job once when Ericsson wanted the dA > 'rarpd' deamon changed. They used Linux instead since the code i7 > was open. Not much we from Sun could offer instead...E  9 There is no reason at all why Ericsson couldn't have used 4 the Solaris source and changed the rarpd deamon. The> limitation is in the re-distribution or re-sale of the changed? rarpd which under the terms of the Sun Community Source License > would have to be re-submitted back to Sun for inclusion in the< next Solaris release assuming that Sun felt the changes were usefull.  : In many respects this is very like the Linux process. What6 you or I hack up doesn't autmatically make it into the; next Linux kernel you or I would have to submit the changeso7 to the Linux organisation for inclusion, they decide on)8 the merits of the change. So the main difference is that9 Sun as a commercial organisation vets the Solaris changes 1 and a bunch of indeviduals do the same for Linux.   = In fact some people arn't happy with the Linux update process@7 because they claim that their submissions have not beenv folowed up.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:36:04 GMTF# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun MicrosystemsH Message-ID: <oDM4a.13677$b8v1.8546@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message 0 news:b2tk22$1g47dg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...$ > >> Was CP/M really around in 1974? >F! > From a history of Gary Kildall:w > F >       "Gary had been doing his consulting and development work underD >        the name "MAA," or "Microcomputer Applications Associates." MAAlD >        (that is, Kildall) completed CP/M in 1974. It was a spartan6 >         system, containing only what was essential." >yC > >>                                 I thought the original article A > >> about building your own computer using an 8008(?) in Popularn( > >> Electronics(?) was in Jan/Feb 1975, >tE > You have the date right, but are confused on some of the rest.  ThewE > machine was called The Altair 8800 and it used an 8080 cpu.  It was ? > hardly the first microcomputer, but it was the first one that- actuallyC > targeted "computer hobbyists" a genre that didn't really exist upi tilnD > the point.  As a matter of fact, it was not even the only computerD > offered by Altair.  The also sold the Altair 680 at the same time.F > This was a machine based on the M6800.  Southwest Technical ProductsC > Also offered a M6800 based machine The SWTPC-6800 at least a yeara? > before the Popular electronics article or MITS/Altair started  selling F > their machines. (Just as a matter of curiosity, I still have my copy > of that magazine!) >a  D I vaguely seem to recollect the SWTP machines - I was assembling kitE computers around that time and SWTP rings a bell - were they the ones') in the long, skinny orange-ish metal box?e  C I still have a M6800 system made by Midwest Scientific - actually aID kit machine, with an 8" FDD. I designed and etched my own 16k memoryB boards for that machine. Memory was wire-wrapped by hand on to the board.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:43:08 +0000:' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyVD Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems. Message-ID: <3E51111C.3020903@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:. > 	Very good read found via realworldtech.com. >  > 	Cringely is a wise one. > 3 > 	Here are a few lift quotes to whet the appetite:  > 8 > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030213.html > N > Sun did not invent the engineering workstation, but they certainly perfectedI > it.  But where are workstations today?  Gone, for the most part.  Sun'syO > workstation business is about the same size as SGI's, which is to say small. iH > Sun is now a server company, but that won't last long either under theM > onslaught of Linux.  Cheap Intel and AMD hardware running Linux is going to L > kill Sun unless the company does something so stop it, which they aren't.  >   ; Humm. Sun has a range of cheap Intel and AMD based hardware 9 running Solaris or Linux. So the products that apparentlya: are going to kill Sun are also ones that Sun sells, tricky piece of logic.h  @  From a hardware standpoint Intel/AMD and Linux arn't that cheapA either. Sun currently builds SPARC based systems to the same sorte+ of price points as Intel/AMD based systems.'  ?  From an OS standpoint Solaris is free and it comes with Apachee> OpenSSL, Samba etc supported by Sun. Linux is free to download> or at least some distros are however to get a package like the; standard Solaris bundle and to get it supported you have to-= pay in the Linux space and a >1000 dollars for SuSE or RedHat@6 they arn't that good value when compared with Solaris.  9 Linux vs Solaris software development also isn't an issuea: since no one writes Linux software they write GNU software< which they can also do on Solaris (one reason why we support/ a lot of the GNU SW and package it in Solaris).   < Linux cost more to onw than Solaris, well to be more precise9 according to Meta Linux cost more to own than Win2000 ands% Win200 cost more to own than Solaris.   + So Linux adoption is being driven by what ?s  9 Well its mostly an imperfect understanding of an IT shipsh4 cost base, it isn't all Capx guys and a small if not- imperceptible Capx advantage for Linux boxes.G  9 Incedentally Sun is applying its Solaris packaged supporte< to Linux so there is good chance that people using Sun-Linux; boxes will actually save some money, its unlikely otherwise  unless they don't want support.   7 Sun is also the goose that lays the golden eggs for theC7 Linux community. It is with StarOffice, NFS, Grid, Java-> etc the most significant donor of technology to the OpenSource
 community.  ; Without Java for example Linux would be dead in Investement: Banking.  Q > So here is the prognosis.  Sun lost $2 billion last year and will probably losenQ > another $2 billion this year.  At that rate, the company has at most five years P > to live.  They have just renewed a commitment to the Solaris operating system,P > which is no longer really viable from an economic standpoint.  I know, I know,M > Solaris users love Solaris, but they don't love Solaris prices.  And with a M > falling market share, Sun can't afford to make Solaris any cheaper.  Sun istO > having the same problem in hardware where their SPARC architecture is fallinguP > behind, and -- worse still -- has lost nearly all of its manufacturing supportQ > in Japan.  Both Solaris and SPARC will absorb vast sums in the coming years andnB > yield absolutely no increase in Sun's market share as a result.  >   C Sun lost 2 billion after book value write downs. If you include thejC equivalent in HP's balance sheet then HP are also bleeding red ink.f  @ The bottom line is that you have been predicting SPARC/Solaris's9 demise since I have started reading this newsgroup. Apartx; from a wolrdwide recession and cut back in IT spending youru2 analysis seems no more valid now than it did then.   Regardsw Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:55:27 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems) Message-ID: <3E53A8EF.BB7E6C6A@127.0.0.1>f  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > Andreas Davour wrote:i ... C > > Maybe you feel it's just bullshit, but I surely see more comingoB > > from IBM if you count kernel patches. And considering that IBME > > is phasing out AIX in favour of Linux sure tells me they are partMH > > of the gang. Hell knows what Sun wants more that to protect Solaris. > >E > < > That is entirely untrue. IBM's public statements about AIXA > indicate that they expect it to be their high end UNIX offeringe< > in 10 years time. A decade is a hell of a long time in the9 > computer industry and if the statements subtext is thatc> > they are phasing out AIX in 11 years time in favour of Linux? > well sorry but that is just too far off to have any relevancee	 > at all.r  E This is interesting. Andrew, do you have references for this? This isvH certainly quite a shift from what I heard from the IBM linux camp. I too< believed that AIX would go when linux matched it in terms ofG functionality. The IBM statement I was aware of up to now was that theyfF would maintain AIX for those that wanted it, but "push" wasn't used in the language I heard.   C > How about listing IBM's contributions to the OpenSource communitycD > I can easily list what Sun has donated both in terms of technology? > and in terms of standards, for sale software like DB2, Tivolid= > and WebSphere don't count and neither does Linux on zSeries  > systems either.s  D I admit I'm not up to date here, but IBM led me to believe they wereF contributing SMP code in particular. I guess this has changed with theD other thread here [IBM doing linux for Power not Itanium]. I believeF you're right that Sun has made a greater contribution, but by the sameF token do you think it weakens Sun's position as a Solaris over a linux solution provider?   ... < > In many respects this is very like the Linux process. What8 > you or I hack up doesn't autmatically make it into the= > next Linux kernel you or I would have to submit the changesl9 > to the Linux organisation for inclusion, they decide on-: > the merits of the change. So the main difference is that; > Sun as a commercial organisation vets the Solaris changesn3 > and a bunch of indeviduals do the same for Linux.- > ? > In fact some people arn't happy with the Linux update processr9 > because they claim that their submissions have not been 
 > folowed up.v  G Again these are interesting comments regarding linux. It is not so muchrD a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth, as discovering that oneD man's meat is another man's poison, resulting in these "oversights". Interesting stuff.  H While I could start to talk about how the cookie crumbles, in the UK, we" have a biscuit called a Penguin...  & (Hope I got the attributions correct). -- s? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:26:52 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)0D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-6VJJ7ykPiMSB@localhost>   = On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:38:42 UTC, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill i Gunshannon) wrote:   <Snip>  $ >> Was CP/M really around in 1974?   > ! > From a history of Gary Kildall:0 > F >       "Gary had been doing his consulting and development work underI >        the name "MAA," or "Microcomputer Applications Associates." MAA D >        (that is, Kildall) completed CP/M in 1974. It was a spartan6 >         system, containing only what was essential." > C > >>                                 I thought the original articleaA > >> about building your own computer using an 8008(?) in PopularG( > >> Electronics(?) was in Jan/Feb 1975,   <snip>  0 > >> DR-DOS, etc.) followed a year or two later. > 9 > DR-DOS was a PCDOS/MSDOS clone and came long afterward.  > @ > So, we still have RT-11 and CP/M having .COM before VMS making > them hardly "the first .COM".   D Not so sure about RT-11, it's nearly 25 years since I used it. I do F know that for _me_  the first .COM files that I was exposed to was on F VMS. CP/M .COM's I knew nothing about until I got my Rainbow in '83 or '84.  F DR-DOS did appear after MS-DOS, that's very true. But I find the word F clone a little disatisfying when you consider how much of Q/MS/PC/DOS F was actually CP/M(-86) derived. Particularly galling since DR-DOS was A such a superior product ,which caused MS such discomfort that it    stooped to adding a very cryptic  # 	if DOS_HOST .eqs. DRDOS then CRASHo   fiddle to Windows 3.1.  C Mr. Noorda's Digital Research/Caldera eventually got a tidy sum of n$ cash in the out-of-court settlement.   -- l Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:48:58 -060011 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a marketfor it" for ' Message-ID: <3E52F09A.8BB5AB7A@fsi.net>B   Dean Woodward wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > J >  > Seems to me I first downloaded Linux from a U.S. BBS back around 1992& >  > or so when my 386SX/16 was young. > D > Somewhere in there; I've still got a Slackware 0.9A distro, with X$ > server- takes 28 1.44MB diskettes.  @ This was, as another posted pointed out, just the kernel - and aH rudimentary port of sh. It was a diskete image in a .ZIP file and it fit on a single diskette.t   -- l David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsx http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:33:10 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>Q Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya0 Message-ID: <01C2D80A.B72A23E0@sulfer.icius.com>  F Ah, this is a good day. I get to lay the smack down on Andrew! :-) TheB Spectrum didn't have a rampack, that was the ZX81. 1K as standard,H metallic membrane keyboard. The Speccy had 16K or 32K as standard, and aH dead flesh keyboard. In my case, microdrives instead of a tape recorder, too.   Shaned   -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn. [mailto:Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com]   Russell Wallace wrote:D > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:57:37 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> > wrote: >  > 9 >>EAT FLAMING DEATH, ACCURSED COMMODORE OWNER!!!!!!!! :-)2 >  >  > ^.^_ >  > I >>Yup, I had a Spectrum. Three, in fact, and briefly worked for Melbournep >>House. >  >  > Cool! What did you work on?p >   . Well if he had a Spectrum nothing because when- he thumped the keyboard a bit too hard he got 3 the imfamous RAMPACK wobble and lost everything :-)s   Regardse Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:42:25 +0000 (UTC)7' From: Bryce Utting <butting@ihug.co.nz> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolym* Message-ID: <b30mmv$2c9$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>  # Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad> wrote: M >>Cargo shipping; yeah, if you can get it into a container you're set, except9G >>that there are still some old ships that aren't container-compatible.f > I > And the ships are usually all compatible with the OLD 1970's container,uH > but there are endless variations on long, short, half, refrigeration, G > tall, heavy, light, etc. Someone should have introduced this guy thatt2 > started containerization to Lego's in his youth.  
 *headscratch*   @ do the odd pentagonal (square cross-section w/ a corner cut off)E airfreight containers I vaguely remember seeing getting hauled aroundu= airports ever need to be carted on ships, trucks or railcars?f  A what with having to deal with some of the implications of bins vsp? containers (whether 20' or 40' or refrigerated or no), it neveroA occurred to me to wonder about some of the odder forms out there.s  D (I'd guess that airfreight containers never leave air terminals: theC shape and materials imply some degree of cost, and an industry-wideoB "unload 'em into 20-footers" would make more sense than "where the hell is ZX7Y568 today?")     buttinge   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:47:41 -0500r( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b2r06t0t6s@enews3.newsguy.com>u  1 In article <3e50ce3d.122373091@news.eircom.net>, a  rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net says...5 > On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:41:11 -0000, "Rupert Pigott"t7 > <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:n > > > >Oh, you mean SVR4, BSD & Linux ? All of them "multi-vendor"& > >all of them present a standard API. > G > The various Linux distros aren't independent implementations (most ofoG > the code in them comes from the same original source) - but yes, they-E > do come closer than anyone except Microsoft has ever come before torA > solving this problem, which is exactly why Linux is becoming sof
 > successful.   E SVR4 and BSD are not "various Linux distros".  In the beginning AT&T +I Bell Labs created Unix.  System V Release 4, which is what "SVR4" stands lF for, was their final version before USL was sold to Novell.  BSD is a H descendant of an earlier AT&T Unix release, which has subsequently been A developed independently of the AT&T products, and in its NetBSD, iI OpenBSD, and FreeBSD forms has been completely sanitized of AT&T code so nD that it may be distributed as open source.  Linux is an independent H development which never contained any AT&T code.  So you have now three H independent code bases, not one.  If you want to add the Hurd (which at F release 0.2 is running but not yet feature-complete) to the mix, then  you have four.   -- y -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net * (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:49:27 -0000 D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 2 Message-ID: <1045687748.945653@saucer.planet.gong>  6 "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message# news:3E5383BB.716066EB@yahoo.com...r   [SNIP]  H > As I read the ELF spec, it's possible to package together binaries forH > several distinct hardware architectures and the loader will select theE > correct one.  Is this ever done?  Aside from the obvious disk spaceL8 > issues, it would seem to address part of this problem.  7 It sounds awfully hairy... I suggest you take a peak ate< the Linux source to find out... See if the loader doo-hickey< will hack it. Next step would be to try and test it out, and" that makes my head ache a lot ! :)   Cheers,. Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500h& From: Julian Thomas <jata@jt-maja.net>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolys0 Message-ID: <3e53eff2$1$wg$mr2ice@news.fltg.net>  1 In <b2tin311p3s@enews2.newsguy.com>, on 02/18/03  3    at 10:15 AM, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> e( may have used oatmeal boxes, old string,@ and new, used, and recycled electrons to say (at least in part):  G >Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all server and  G >workstation class machines can support it if the purchaser chooses to  B >put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" and consumer G >machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm using right now has .6 >ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and back again"  K These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird that offer ECC. e@ Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's not widely
 available.  c --2  Julian Thomas: jt . jt-mj @ net  http://jt-mj.net.  remove letter a for email (or switch . and @)>  In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!6  Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org  -- --:  Headline: Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:02:46 -0500e& From: Julian Thomas <jata@jt-maja.net>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye0 Message-ID: <3e53f178$2$wg$mr2ice@news.fltg.net>  1 In <b2tunt32at5@enews1.newsguy.com>, on 02/18/03  3    at 01:40 PM, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> a( may have used oatmeal boxes, old string,@ and new, used, and recycled electrons to say (at least in part):  + >Ever try to use a US appliance in England?n  E Yes, with a plug adapter, I've run dual voltage stuff (razors, PC's).l  A In the early 360 development days, a number of IBM engineers frompH Poughkeepsie and Endicott had relatively long term (2 yr) assignments in the UK (Hursley lab).   G One of the frequently asked questions was "How many transformers do YOUn have?"  i --2  Julian Thomas: jt . jt-mj @ net  http://jt-mj.net.  remove letter a for email (or switch . and @)>  In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!6  Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  http://www.possi.org  -- --0  Windows: From the people who brought you EDLIN!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:07:04 -0000VD From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye2 Message-ID: <1045688805.934906@saucer.planet.gong>  = "Russell Wallace" <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote in messageC* news:3e53d1b3.319896820@news.eircom.net...: > On Wed, 19 Feb 03 13:06:36 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >i; > >I was known as the den mother of TOPS-10.  I worked withh< > >two guys who were known as The TOPS-10 gurus, JMF and TW. >t > Cool.e >w6 > >TW's definition of a Real Computer was based on its> > >price, namely, "You can tell the difference between the men= > >and the boys by the price of their toys."  Given that thisa; > >was a generic statement and not sexist, I worked on reals > >computers.  Yours is wimpy. >nG > Mmm, didn't a VAX 6230 cost a fair chunk of change back in the 1980s?AF > But certainly since I finished college I haven't worked on a machine+ > with a price tag longer than four digits.t  8 From what I saw of it DEC's pricing was pretty insane in9 the age of the Sun server... You can be assured that they  had far pricier toys.c   Cheers,e Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:16:29 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt/ Message-ID: <3E53E61C.6FF8B8EB@vl.videotron.ca>o   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:4 > I don't know about Unix geeks; I've never met one.  K Back in the 80s, there was this Unix guru at university. He no longer spoke E english. He spoke acronyms and unix commands. Turned out to be a veryg respected Unix Guru in town.  M Then, at DECUS, there was this true Unix Geek (sorry his name escapes me) wholF dressed up for an African safari. He too was extremely well respected.  G Nothing like the current crop of people who consider themselves expertsp: because they unpacked Linux onto their 8086 home computer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:54:07 -0800 ( From: Alan Frisbie <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyV- Message-ID: <3E53FCFF.293792AF@NelsonUSA.com>-   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:6 > > I don't know about Unix geeks; I've never met one. > M > Back in the 80s, there was this Unix guru at university. He no longer spoke G > english. He spoke acronyms and unix commands. Turned out to be a veryw > respected Unix Guru in town. > O > Then, at DECUS, there was this true Unix Geek (sorry his name escapes me) whoTH > dressed up for an African safari. He too was extremely well respected.  I Norm Wilson, from Caltech.   Also extremely well-versed in RT-11 and RSX.M   Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:06:59 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo/ Message-ID: <3E53F1EF.4AE4CBA0@vl.videotron.ca>t   "Helmut P. Einfalt" wrote:+ > And the way they ring! The way they ring!o> > (The old Austrian beasts in fact have a couple of bells that( > adjustable to give different rings...)  L Remember that the old phones consume a LOT more electricity when ringing andK there are real limits on how many you can put in your home without advising 
 the telco.  I The newer phones, with electronic bells consume very little power and tbea3 telco can support plenty of phone on a single line.   9 I think that the term used was ringer equivalence number.e   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2003 03:01:17 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly-3 Message-ID: <3e52f37d$0$190$75868355@news.frii.net>-  g In alt.folklore.computers "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" <winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:-  L > Tru64 (er, I mean Digital Unix) was, as far as I know, the only commercialJ > implementation of OSF/1.  Digital was the only OSF member that kept thatO > promise, but with their tremendous skill at pissing off their installed base,@M > they first upset the MIPS users by announcing that they wouldn't put OSF onsJ > MIPS, then flipflopped and announced they would and (IIRC) got as far asO > distributing a beata and _then_ flipflopped again and announced they wouldn't1N > after all, changing pretty much every MIPS user from feeling disappointed toJ > feeling betrayed, and convincing some number of people to never ever buy# > anything from Digital ever again.f  I And meanwhile, OSF was running OSF/1 on 486 boxes to do their research as. Alpha boxes were expensive.u --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:41:54 -0500w( From: J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyl, Message-ID: <b2v1uh0185n@enews2.newsguy.com>  @ In article <1045603661.450322@saucer.planet.gong>, roo@dark-try-' removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk says... 7 > "J. Clarke" <nospam1@nospam.invalid> wrote in message ( > news:b2u4ha42lrf@enews2.newsguy.com...L > > In article <1045587168.20690@saucer.planet.gong>, roo@dark-try-removing-" > > this-boong.demon.co.uk says...; > > > "J. Clarke" <nospam1@nospam.invalid> wrote in messageu, > > > news:b2tin001p3s@enews2.newsguy.com... > > >r > > > [SNIP] > > > M > > > > And for "uninformed users", there is no excuse whatsoever to not keepaN > > > > your patches current--Windows annoys the Hell out of you with messagesB > > > > about needing patches any time there is a patch available. > > > >iK > > > > There are problems with Windows, but blame it for what it does, noth > forc. > > > > what applications running under it do. > > >n? > > > Hmm, the problem is : A fair few exploits have been foundnA > > > for the services supplied with the system by default, whicheA > > > the user takes no part in configuring. Furthermore the userh: > > > may well not even be aware of the existance of those > > > services ! > >aJ > > This is true and for this Microsoft is squarely to blame.  However the3 > > above listed problems are not in that category.h > >l* > > > That is an OS Vendor Policy problem. > > >f? > > > Furthermore, many applications, following the pattern setoB > > > by Microsoft, require Superuser priveledges to be installed.@ > > > It is therefore impossible to *confine* the application to@ > > > something akin to a chroot jail or an LPAR. Microsoft's OS< > > > and Applications are to blame for that one. It's a bad1 > > > example to set to 3rd party developers too.A > > H > > That's not so much a pattern set by Microsoft, it's more the way theF > > whole mess developed.  Vendors were used to producing products for > L > > Windows 9X, which had no security to speak of, and so they never had any > ; > The earliest reference I can find to a production releases8 > of NT is August '93... NT introduced Win32, along with: > Win32s for the old '16bit' Windows, '95 et al came along > a fair bit later.s  F The reason that 95 existed at all was that sales volume on NT was too I small to attract developers.  If Microsoft hadn't come up with something iF that could easily transition "dirty" DOS and Windows 3.x applications G then NT would have remained a niche product and suffered the same fate nF as OS/2.  98 moved farther toward a "pure" 32-bit environment, and ME E went even further.  The result was that there was now an established  H base of applications that could run on NT/2K/XP, thus making transition C to those operating systems relatively painless.  The cost was that UF developers made assumptions about the operating system security which , were not necessarily valid on the NT family.  E > > incentive to develop installation procedures that did not requireaJ > > privileged access.  Once that was in place there wasn't a whole lot ofJ > > choice but to run at high privilege or not run apps.  And if you don'tI > > run apps then the Powers That Be say "why did we spend all this money : > > for NT when it won't run this app that runs under 9x". > 7 > Most of the claims of Windows being "required" appearh7 > to boil down to "We need Office", which happens to bee > an MS product.  H However, running Office is not justification for buying NT.  9x costs a H lot less than NT and runs Office just fine.  And I don't think that the G Microsoft apps were the reason that NT was defaulted to loose security.'  ' > God only knows how you would researche8 > it, but I'd lay odds that MS had the largest portfolio6 > of apps for NT at it's introduction and for the next7 > few years. What's more they've probably maintained itX5 > by buying anyone who shows promise of competing. Sot  > they really do have NO EXCUSE. >  > [SNIP] > 8 > I can't claim to like NT having spent a fair amount of8 > time with it. But it could be about 200x better if the8 > basics had been taken care of in the userland at day 17 > and had been continued to be maintained... MS has thet7 > tools and capability to do that, they just never did.i  H If they had defaulted NT to tight security then it would have about the E same market share as OS/2, and for the same reason.  Microsoft knows n+ what they are about in the marketing arena.l   * > Fuck'em and the horse the rode in on. ;) > 	 > Cheers,r > Rupert >  >  >    -- t -- --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot nete* (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:30:53 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt0 Message-ID: <3e534009.282600439@news.eircom.net>  @ On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:53:42 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU. ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote:  J >You'd save some argument if you said "binary compatible" (or, poetically,I >"plug compatible", although that has a specific meaning about hardware).u   Okay.t  F >But does this mean that if they bought a Java program, suddenly everyD >incompatible computer that happens to run Java is compatible again?  = That is the theory of Java, and in fact its entire reason for D existing. Unfortunately it doesn't work quite as well in practice as3 it does in theory, though it works for some things.    -- o3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."e+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:24:38 +0100 * From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <mn313b.r8q1.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>  0 According to Stan Barr <stanb45@dial.pipex.com>:Q >On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:13:52 +0100, Morten Reistad <mrrz@reistad.priv.no> wrote:e >>F >>Or bring with you an old pulse-signalling phone from the countryside2 >>into the city of Oslo? (or, similar UK-> London) >hP >Strangely enough, although here in the UK we've been tone-dialling for decades L >I tried pulse dialing the other day by tapping on the "hook" switch and it N >worked perfectly.  Why was I trying it??  Because I thought an old-fashioned D >dial phone would look cool in my den and I wanted to see if I could >actually use it!   H It still works. My Dad grew up when all phones hadn't installed rotariesB yet, but direct (rotary) dialling was available (you just held the> line for an operator to come on the line) He can still tap out2 numbers on the hook; no dial needed on his phones.  0 The main three encodings for pulse dialling was     #1 = one pulseo  #2 = two pulses  ...  #9 = nine pulsesy  #0 = ten pulses   This a  2 Sweden and some other areas used a shifted version    #0 = one pulse   #1 = two pulses ..  #9 = ten pulses  @ And some places, notoriously those with long-serving independentC phone companies used an inverted one (Oslo, Norway; New Zealand andnE odd bits of the British Empire used it. I still seem to remember someh4 bits of the UK used this, but again I may be wrong).    #0 = one pulsec  #9 = two pulses  #8 = three pulses  ..e  #1 = ten pulses  D This also has the implication that 0, 1 and 9 are _never_ used aloneB for something important, as a dangling, broken line will dial thisC number all by itself. You still try to keep pulse dialling as shorte as possible for emergencies;    %  US : 9 1 1 (eleven pulses in the US)   EU : 1 1 2 (4 or 7 pulses)r8  Old Oslo number (not active anymore) : 0 0 3 (9 pulses)  A There were other encodings. Saudi Arabia had a specifically weirdo
 one AFAIR.     -- mrr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:18:27 -0000h$ From: "David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya5 Message-ID: <b316sk$1fpiie$1@ID-40235.news.dfncis.de>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagei) news:3E53F1EF.4AE4CBA0@vl.videotron.ca...  > "Helmut P. Einfalt" wrote:- > > And the way they ring! The way they ring!m@ > > (The old Austrian beasts in fact have a couple of bells that* > > adjustable to give different rings...) >DJ > Remember that the old phones consume a LOT more electricity when ringing andnD > there are real limits on how many you can put in your home without advising > the telco. >>K > The newer phones, with electronic bells consume very little power and tbe 5 > telco can support plenty of phone on a single line.m > ; > I think that the term used was ringer equivalence number.a  I In the UK almost all phones, including most of the older types have a REN I number. You can have a total REN of 4 on most lines but you can get a RENyG booster.   The newer ones can be a problem. They usually get a REN of 1 0 stamped on them but in fact its oftem much lower   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:36:35 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya/ Message-ID: <3E5414F4.4506B005@vl.videotron.ca>t   Alan Frisbie wrote: R >> > Then, at DECUS, there was this true Unix Geek (sorry his name escapes me) whoJ > > dressed up for an African safari. He too was extremely well respected. > K > Norm Wilson, from Caltech.   Also extremely well-versed in RT-11 and RSX.o     Yep, that was the name.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:49:32 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyf6 Message-ID: <00A1BBBF.5734201A@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  q In article <WG1ZadkGa2U4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:l >In article <00A1BAF8.6196312B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: >dM >> Tru64 (er, I mean Digital Unix) was, as far as I know, the only commercialw >> implementation of OSF/1.  . > G >   HP was first to market with OSF/1 as an alternate to HP-UX on their D >   Apollo 700 HPARC workstations.  They advertised this for about 2 >   months and had no sales.  F Thanks, did not know that.  (Also don't know where they advertised it;O apparently not in Unix/World, which I was writing for and reading at the time.)n   -- AlanH    O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025iO ===============================================================================o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 03:21:12 -0000e* From: "Dennis Ritchie" <dmr@bell-labs.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt6 Message-ID: <b31gg7$1hs9lc$1@ID-156882.news.dfncis.de>  5 "Alan Frisbie" <Abuse@NelsonUSA.com> wrote in message ' news:3E53FCFF.293792AF@NelsonUSA.com...r > JF Mezei wrote:n  ...  O > > Back in the 80s, there was this Unix guru at university. He no longer spoke I > > english. He spoke acronyms and unix commands. Turned out to be a veryr  > > respected Unix Guru in town. > >sM > > Then, at DECUS, there was this true Unix Geek (sorry his name escapes me)p who,J > > dressed up for an African safari. He too was extremely well respected. >sK > Norm Wilson, from Caltech.   Also extremely well-versed in RT-11 and RSX.   H Make it Norman, please.  He spent several productive years in our group.7 Some years ago he decamped to Ontario, most of the time 
 at U of T.  
     Dennis   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:42:09 GMTo0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo0 Message-ID: <3e5102b4.135805621@news.eircom.net>  E On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:39:27 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>2 wrote:  - >Yhos is why Linux will eventually kill of M$n  E Perhaps. It's certainly the only candidate for even making a credibled attempt at it.   -- p3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."n+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.x! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceg   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:05:09 +0100e* From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <lskv2b.kbc1.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>  * According to David Wade <g8mqw@yahoo.com>: >v9 >"Morten Reistad" <mrrz@reistad.priv.no> wrote in messagen+ >news:gneu2b.di11.ln@via.reistad.priv.no...e4 >> According to J. Clarke  <nospam1@nospam.invalid>:4 >> >In article <3e523c53.216104475@news.eircom.net>,$ >> >rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net says...> >> >> On Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:37:21 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> 7 >> >> >In article <3e515058.155684634@news.eircom.net>,l; >> >> >   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:oG >> >> >>On 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  >wrote:d
 >> >> ><snip>i	 >> [snap]A >> >> *rolls eyes*L >> >Every plug an analog modem into a jack connected to a digital switch and0 >> >then wonder why everybody is angry with you? >>G >> Or bring with you an old pulse-signalling phone from the countryside 3 >> into the city of Oslo? (or, similar UK-> London)i >> >PK >AFAIK Pulse Dial still works throughout the UK. I have Home Highway, whichrI >is ISDN with built in POTS ports, and pulse dial phones work fine on theoL >POTS ports.I guess some PABXs might not like it, and it is real slow now we( >have longer numbers, but it works fine.  > Yes, they still work. But have you tried to move one from, sayE Liverpool to Hull; or Basingstoke to Chelsea*? (*not quite sure aboutr7 where in London the old exchanges standards are used). s  @ You will notice that you will not be connected to the number you? are trying to call. Pulse dialling has around 10 different face2% plates; or encodings for click click.@  B Two pulses on the line can mean 1, 2, 8 or 9, depending on coding.  ( >> >> television and radio broadcasting, >> >L >> >So you've got your digital TV?  Is it HD or SD?  And it receives DirecTVD >> >and Dish Network transmissions without any proprietary hardware? >>E >> And, is your TV NTSC, PAL, SECAM, SECAM-EST. or something entirely J >> different? And does it support the bands your local FCC (or equivalent) >hasE >> assigned to programming; or do you get to enjoy listening to radio 6 >> beacons. And which teletext system does it support?  2 >Only the old fashioned "Analogue" teletext.......  # But they come in various versions. e   >> >> cargo shipping,  [snip], >> And, does your fax support weather faxes? >> >u> >Of course, but not the other G2 stuff every one else uses....  D The rest of the world uses G3, semi-duplex on V.27/V,27bis with V.23> fallback. Some machines support G2 and V.21 fallback as well.   J This means a fax can step down from 14400 via 9600,7200,4800,2400 and 1200F to 300 bps and can drop down to extremely dumb decoding. This can slowI a 90 second fax to half a day. Just to stay compliant with the standards.   E Weather faxes uses the same standards, but are designed for broadcasta without a back channel.e  K >> >> It's the level of service the rest of the world is entitled to demandt" >> >> from our industry in return. >> >H >> >You seem to have some misconceptions about the "level of service" in >> >many industries. >>0 >> And, technical differences we get stuck with.  6 I'll give you a current example from another industry.  D I am trying to fit a more modern generator onto a 20 year old dieselF marine engine, instead of the brain-damaged alternator that is alreadyF in place I want a full three-phase AC generator with electronics to doD rectification and regulation. Such a generator gives a lot more evenC drag on the belt, and a 800W generator can be upgraded to something.> like 2kW with the same engine load (although belt load will beA somewhat greater.) Or, you can change for an equal load part, andLC gain 30-35% from the three-phase effect. Generators also have a lotx less wear and tear.   C There is total incomprehension from all parties. Even the generatornB vendor is clueless to implementation; and he lives off the sale ofB these things. And I have one of the three most sold marine diesels? from the last decades. Of course there is a plethora of ways toeB mechanically fit a generator to an engine, with endless variationsC in dimensions. The need to have something like this standardized is ' completely lost on everyone I talk to. n  9 "that would void the warranty" (Duh, it expired in 1987).a) "AH, You need a replacement alternator!" .      -- mrr    ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 19 Feb 03 10:47:03 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comtQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyC+ Message-ID: <b2vpq6$s9k$9@bob.news.rcn.net>n  / In article <1030219042633.19714B@Ives.egh.com>,-$    John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:- >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:e >lG >> In article <3e51a916$0$197$75868355@news.frii.net>, rmk@rmkhome.com   wrote:+ >> >In alt.folklore.computers Brooks Moses  # <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu>  	 >> wrote:. >> >H >> >> My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of theC >> >> problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the  
 competenceG >> >> of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any c othertK >> >> OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.  All it wouldML >> >> take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as root".... K >> >> And a .bashrc-infecting virus shouldn't be that hard to make, either;a >> >> who'd notice it? >> >E >> >Take a look at the bugtraq mailing list or www.securityfocus.com.F >> >% >> >Worst OS - any version of Windowso >> >2nd Worst OS - Linux( >> >And then everything else after that. >> >J >> >Windows, by the nature of it's GUI interface, even hides problems from >> >the sysadmin.r >> >I >> >Meanwhile, I can still see NIMDA, Code Red, and that latest port 1433sD >> >virus still slamming their way around the internet. Windows was  designedI >> >for private networks, and then jury-rigged to work with the internet.r >> .> >> How do you think Misoft "knows" to distribute their updatesH >> with automatic update service?  They have to have backdoors installed? >> in the users' computers.  Any software that has an auto-dialn; >> without an OK from the user, is high security risk meat.  >> m >> /BAH  >>  * >> Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. >T@ >The Windows Update thingy on my home PC (Win2K) has been broken@ >for about a month now.  It just hangs for about 5 minutes, then@ >tells me I have security set too tight in IE.  (It's set to theD >default level.)  I do have a firewall and NAT router, but it hasn'tE >let out a peep, so I don't think it's that.  (I also tried disablingaB >the firewall last time this happened, a couple of months ago, and@ >it didn't help that time.  Eventually it started working all by; >it self, as far as I could tell, but now it's broke again.w >aB >So, would you care to retract your statement that MickySoft knows& >how to distribute their updates?  ;-)  A Nope. :-))))  I figured that would happen; they're known to shoot1@ both balls with a paper clip.  One of my favorite forms of humor is irony.  a   > = >I guess like most virii, it is poorly writen and very buggy.n  A Of course.  When MIsoft announced it, the bad news was occasional F global shutdown, the good news was they'ld stop themselves eventually.   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:28:42 GMT ) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>sQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyD) Message-ID: <3E5383BB.716066EB@yahoo.com>i   "J. Clarke" wrote: > 2 > In article <3e52b64e.247336825@news.eircom.net>," > rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net says...J > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:40:31 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>
 > > wrote: > >dJ > > >However this is really a straw man.  Unix is cross-platform--binariesM > > >that run on the ARM processor in a Zaurus are not going to run on a 3090nJ > > >due to differences in the hardware instruction set.  Nonethelesss theD > > >same source will compile and run on both.  For this reason mostM > > >applications used on Linux or BSD are distributed as source, and in that F > > >universe "compatibility" does not necessarily mean "runs the same > > >binaries".b > >pC > > Yes, I know. If you're happy with that, that's fine. I'm merelyhI > > pointing out that most people who aren't computer specialists are noth > > happy with it. >   F As I read the ELF spec, it's possible to package together binaries forF several distinct hardware architectures and the loader will select theC correct one.  Is this ever done?  Aside from the obvious disk spaceM6 issues, it would seem to address part of this problem.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:35:11 GMTs) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>uQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh) Message-ID: <3E53853B.13EF07EE@yahoo.com>   * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote: > O > But, see, this is why software monoculture is bad.  Even if it's the fault of,M > incompetent sysadmins that Port 1433 has SQL/Server listening on it and notsP > requiring a password, the fact that there are _so many_ systems like that, andP > so high a percentage of the IT substructure is affected, that it's a bad thing > in itself.  E The basic problem is that M$ is selling software to your Aunt Tillie,e@ not to sysadmins.  The software _as distributed_ should have theG security features set.  If the user wanted otherwise s/he would have toeE explicitly disable them, which would leave out 90% of the user base. eB Then people would complain that opening a piece of mail in OutlookH didn't automatically play the movie of their grandchildren without their& having to take some additional action.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 07:40:42 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyj3 Message-ID: <IAosSweuNLDa@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  c In article <3e523fbb.216977105@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:1H > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:49:08 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> > wrote: > C >>I regularly sit at a Windows box and run X applications that are uJ >>resident on a BSD or Linux box.  Whatever you heard you must have heard  >>a very long time ago.t > G > And will the same binaries run resident on any of the three boxes? DotE > the same keyboard shortcuts work on all the different applications?e/ > Can you reliably copy and paste between them?e  E    The binaries, no.  But in the early days of WNT you could say thats*    for Pentium, Alpha, MIPS, ... binaries.  G    As for keyboard shortcuts, they depend mostly on the window manager.TD    I've used the same on DECwindows (VMS and Ultrix), Solaris, IRIX,H    HP-UX, and others, while crossing vendors and OS's between server and
    client.  =    But keyboard shortcuts do not work the same across WindowsbI    applications.  Microsofts oft quoted response "the standard is:  therep    is no standard".r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 19 Feb 03 12:54:08 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.comiQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyv+ Message-ID: <b3018e$fcv$1@bob.news.rcn.net>.  0 In article <3e523c53.216104475@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:9 >On Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:37:21 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:e > 2 >>In article <3e515058.155684634@news.eircom.net>,6 >>   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:I >>>On 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:- >><snip> >>D >>>>You spent too much time with that Commodore 64.  You should have  >>>>had a real computer instead. >>>gE >>>I used real computers in college at the tail end of the 80s; a VAXa8 >>>6230 running VMS, and various assorted Unix machines. >>	 >><snort>S >]F >Well, I know old Unix and VMS guys tend to define "real computers" asG >being restricted to the above. What's your definition, "real computer"t >== IBM mainframe? :)s   A person who counts.     >e> >>You definitely do not know the definition of incompatible asB >>it is used in this biz.  You do NOT boot your system, try to run0 >>LINUX.EXE, then declare it to be incompatible. >a
 >*rolls eyes*  >l >You don't get it. o  @ Oh, I get it just fine.  Your ability to get it is questionable.  5 > ..I know very well Unix geeks are prone to refer to E >machines as "compatible" if it takes fewer than N man-months of workm4 >to port application software from one to the other.  : I've never heard anybody who knew how to login claim that.  , And that implied insult was intentional. ;-)   >nF >That's not how the people who pay for our industry's existence think.? >They figure if they buy a computer and they buy a program, the,, >computer should be able to run the program.  < Those people happen to know that a program handed out at the6 theatre will not do anything useful with any hardware.   >iC >*And they're right.* It should. That's the level of service we getoB >from the industries that provide us with electricity, telephones,F >television and radio broadcasting, cargo shipping, even fax machines.  > I know a guy in the telephone biz.  Every single one of their ? customers has a custom-designed hard/software platform.  The Mao> Bells do not go to CompUSA, buy a box, and expect it to handleD a million phone calls/day.  They don't even expect it to handle one.  F >It's the level of service the rest of the world is entitled to demand >from our industry in return.r  < "They" can demand all they want; they get what they pay for.   /BAH   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:17:36 GMT-0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly.0 Message-ID: <3e50d135.123132878@news.eircom.net>  3 On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:26:40 -0000, "Rupert Pigott"25 <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:   > >And all those OEMs are still paying Microsoft tax on every PC< >shipped the last I heard. I was a mite miffed that your DOJ2 >types didn't actually examine that in more detail  D Last I heard, a consent decree stopped them doing that as of several
 years ago.  ? But not all OEMs were doing it anyway, and you don't have to dofF business with the ones that do. In fact, you don't have to do businessE with OEMs at all to get yourself a PC; you can buy the components and A build the machine yourself. A lot of hardcore gamers do that, for D example, so they can tune everything to their liking. That's another' freedom the industry standard gets you.k   >... Instead= >they focussed on an irrelevance, presented a weak case, tookc> >home lots of tax-payer dollars and Microsoft carried on doing. >all those bad things anyways. Well played. :/  ? Personally I think governments are a far bigger problem for ourrD industry than any corporation, no matter what it did, could ever be.D Corporations, however big, can't send armed men around to your house. to kick in your door; governments can, and do.   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply..! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace6   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 08:23:38 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <9V5L8YYT2nVu@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3e533dee.282061362@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:n > E > But that nearly happened. Back around the early 90s, Apple actuallyiC > got a version of their operating system running on PCs. If they'dnD > played their cards right, they could have seized the market beforeG > Microsoft had Windows 95 ready. Thank God Apple's management were too  > stupid to see it.c  J    Apple has Darwin (the OS X UNIX) running on Pentium, but not the GUI.  @    Darwin is fairly easy, it's a BSD UNIX on a mach microkernel.  2    I wonder if the GUI is still written in Pascal?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 08:25:23 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)mQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyt3 Message-ID: <BmWLyjWdYNoQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  c In article <3e534009.282600439@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:c  ? > That is the theory of Java, and in fact its entire reason forGF > existing. Unfortunately it doesn't work quite as well in practice as5 > it does in theory, though it works for some things.i  D    It works great for us.  The only hangup has been that some of theD    systems we target have frozen their JREs in the past, so we can't&    use all the latest classes/methods.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 08:36:05 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)yQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyF3 Message-ID: <7NWxX5o+OBui@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3E5383BB.716066EB@yahoo.com>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:a > H > As I read the ELF spec, it's possible to package together binaries forH > several distinct hardware architectures and the loader will select theE > correct one.  Is this ever done?  Aside from the obvious disk space 8 > issues, it would seem to address part of this problem.  I   Fat binaries?  Sure, got lots of them on my Macs.  In ELF?  Don't know.o   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 04:47:11 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.com-Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly@3 Message-ID: <3e545dce$0$194$75868355@news.frii.net>y  G In alt.folklore.computers Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:B  A > 	This beastie seems to have a couple of PCI busses, an AGP bus,yL > several USB busses and several I2C busses. There's a DSP on the soundcard,I > and a couple of specialised processors on the video card, the hard disc G > interface isn't entirely dumb and even the parallel port has DMA, thelE > TV capture card has an on board RISC for its DMA controller and ...c  7 > 	Looks like multiple busses and coprocessors to me :)l  K Where's the AIO processor and buss to handle the serial terminals? If it is J an IDE disk interface it is dumb. I watch TV on a television and listen to> music on a stereo system that cost far more than an IBM clone.  D > 	It does a fair job of emulating the old AT clones, but modern PCs, > aren't really much like AT clones anymore.  H They will still boot MSDOS 2.0. The IBM PC was designed as a single-userF general purpose computer. The latest incarnation is primarily designed; as a single-user entertainment cent. That's the difference.m   --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 13:45:34 +0100- From: Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>yQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh* Message-ID: <m3el67jcsx.fsf@elgin.eder.de>  2 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  H > How quickly people forget. Before the rise of Microsoft, you bought an? > IBM machine running an IBM operating system and then you wereeH > restricted to IBM-compatible software. Or you bought a VAX running VMS@ > and then you were restricted to software compatible with that.  C Well, VMS wasn't that bad (isn't intel using it still for their fab-C automation?), but if you wanted you could run BSD on it and maybe a-  few other OSs I do not remember.   'Andreas -- 0+ Wherever I lay my .emacs, theres my $HOME.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:37:39 +0800n4 From: Bernd Felsche <bernie@innovative.iinet.net.au>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo3 Message-ID: <j2m13b.gh3.ln@innovative.iinet.net.au>a  2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   >"Helmut P. Einfalt" wrote:e, >> And the way they ring! The way they ring!? >> (The old Austrian beasts in fact have a couple of bells thatl) >> adjustable to give different rings...)s  A >Remember that the old phones consume a LOT more electricity whenIB >ringing and there are real limits on how many you can put in your! >home without advising the telco.r  B >The newer phones, with electronic bells consume very little power< >and tbe telco can support plenty of phone on a single line.  : >I think that the term used was ringer equivalence number.  C In Australia, POTS supports 3 RI (ring indicators). Most electronic 8 phones consume less than 0.5 RI. Modems about 0.3, IIRC.  > Of course, then-Telecom monopoly player provided some dreadfulC (rebadged Alcatel, IIRC) "T200" handsets that would re-charge theirg? memory cap. every 15 minutes or so, using the maximum available  current. Ahem.  D If you had the handset plugged in while online with a modem, carrierB would almost invariably drop, requiring you to redial (and pay for another call). --  B /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia4 \ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!;  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signaturet/ / \  and postings          | to help me spread!i   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 13:12:15 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)hQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh3 Message-ID: <VzbYtfh+zXD0@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  c In article <3e512fce.147353509@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:X > F > In practice for most companies the solution that competes with it isD > just standardizing on Microsoft Windows on the desktop. (With someC > organizations choosing to standardize on all Linux on the desktop' > instead.)   F    One of the first apps they try to standardize on is the X11 server.H    And we had someone really get scared when we tried PC-anywhere, which:    is about as close to a Windows GUI server as I've seen.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:46:31 GMTr0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye0 Message-ID: <3e5102f8.135873956@news.eircom.net>  E On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:30:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyg. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >Russell Wallace wrote:  >tE >> Sure, I wasn't calling them villains. I was simply noting that thecD >> reason their computers are unable to run most software is because7 >> they're nonstandard. That's just the way things are.  >v! >How do you define most software.a  E I mean if you made a list of all the programs available on commercialrE sale and for each one asked whether it runs on Solaris, in fewer thans% 50% of cases would the answer be yes.   5 >Solaris has the biggest supported software portfolio 4 >after Win32 and way way ahead of HP-UX, AIX, Tru64,= >OS400, zOS, OpenVMS, Linux x86, HP-UX/Itanium, Win64/Itaniume9 >OpenVMS/Itanium(0) in that order. For example even usingi? >double counting Solaris 8 has more apps that AIX 4.3.3/5.1/5.2iC >combined. By double counting I mean Oracle 9i on AIX 4.3.3/5.1/5.2e >counts as 3 apps.  > (Nitpick - Oracle isn't an application, it's system software.)  E But you are entirely correct, Solaris has more software available for = it than most of its competitors, and this is a big advantage.'    >Thats just the way things are !   ^.^y   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."a+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:46:24 +0100 , From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopoly7 Message-ID: <20030219194624.3ff1f641.steveo@eircom.net>e    On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:43:10 GMT1 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:r  : RW> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:54:44 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith RW> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: RW> H RW> >RW> Are you seriously suggesting the ones I've mentioned give theirB RW> >RW> customers anything like as many headaches as the computer RW> >industry RW> does?e RW> > 
 RW> >	Yes. RW> G RW> Try putting that opinion to someone who isn't a computer specialistr# RW> and see what he thinks of it :)   > 	She (my mother-in-law) agrees with me on this. Then again herJ first experience of a computer was a FreeBSD laptop that I set up for her,/ she has since experienced Windows and hates it.N   -- UD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:54:44 +0100 , From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolt7 Message-ID: <20030219075444.097ce2a0.steveo@eircom.net>t    On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:53:19 GMT1 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:y  / RW> >Ever try to use a US appliance in England?-  @ 	Yes! I recall the mess of an early Toshiba laptop that objectedE to being plugged in after a trip across the pond and back, the littleiI selector was still set to 110 and the PSU did not survive the experience.1  G RW> No, never had a reason to; nor has anyone else that I've ever heard: RW> of.,  A 	Strange, it's a common enough experience - Oh wait, you will getoF the same effect plugging that US equipment in in Ireland or almost any EU country.n  B RW> Don't know, never seen fax machines do anything but just work.  # 	You do not know how lucky you are!e  C RW> Are you seriously suggesting the ones I've mentioned give their F RW> customers anything like as many headaches as the computer industry	 RW> does?t   	Yes.    -- hD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:21:16 -0400n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>P Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly/ Message-ID: <3E53E73A.F947F263@vl.videotron.ca>r   Bob Koehler wrote:L >    VWS shipped with VMS 5.0 on the VAXstation 2000.  It was similar to the; >    software on the VAXstation 100 and to MIT X10 windows.e  P So at the time VWS shipped, X windows was already available on other platforms ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:16:28 -0800w$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>P Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly0 Message-ID: <01C2D819.3FCEBA90@sulfer.icius.com>  E ISTR the change from X10 to X11 was a rather big rewrite, and DEC got D roped in to help. I don't know how much of what we know as X Windows existed in X10.    Shane    -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]i+ Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:21 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaD Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly-     Bob Koehler wrote:L >    VWS shipped with VMS 5.0 on the VAXstation 2000.  It was similar to the; >    software on the VAXstation 100 and to MIT X10 windows.a  D So at the time VWS shipped, X windows was already available on other platforms ?o   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 07:50:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)yP Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly3 Message-ID: <XfKEheT2XG8L@eisner.encompasserve.org>)  b In article <3E52B9FA.E66A3F53@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > N > Interestingly, it talks about VAXstation 100s in 1984 time frame. Was that a > Microvax I ?  F    VAXstation 100 was a VMS system which would connect via a UNIBUS toI    another VAX.  It was introduced by DEC as a temporary windowing systemdE    solution not to be supported for very long.  There were only a fewiH    releases of VMS 4.x which supported it.  We has a couple connected to:    MicroVAX II via QNIverter (sp?, Qbus - UNIBUS adapter).  P > At what year did Digtal release the VWS software ? I was under the impression ; > That VWS was released because there was no standard yet. e  K    VWS shipped with VMS 5.0 on the VAXstation 2000.  It was similar to the n9    software on the VAXstation 100 and to MIT X10 windows.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:48:13 +0100a, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly IBMmonopi7 Message-ID: <20030219074813.161ec345.steveo@eircom.net>o  " On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:56:04 -04001 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:a   JM> standard GUI (X-windows).-  B 	Go to the blackboard and write 1000 times "X-Windows is not a GUI, it is a networked windows and graphics API".  F JM> There are a few features of X which seem to be common with Windows: JM> 3.1. Did X inspire itself from Windwos or vice-versa ?  ; 	I'm hard put to find a common feature of any significance.s   -- rD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:27:59 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>p) Subject: Re: INGRES/VMS to UNIX migratione' Message-ID: <3E53A27F.38AD1C5A@vcu.edu>   C my main problem was that people wrote stuff in quell... quell beingtE based on relational calculus, and sql is based on relational algebra,dF there's no foobar way that sql can absorb quel... i'd use perl for the "help" sql will need...=   jim=   Didier Morandi wrote:  > Q > I'm looking for inputs, tech info and/or war stories on a VAX/VMS INGRES to SUNSR > Solaris INGRES migration. Lots of DCL and SQL, a few embedded SQL, nearly no 3rd > GL programming.2 > 	 > Thanks,= >  > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:24:11 -0500-# From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> 0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix+ Message-ID: <3E53E7EB.C27F6E8F@adldata.com>d  G You can have a repeating batch that checks for the existance of a file,hE invokes the DCL command and resubmits itself to to check for the file> a while later.    H I think the best way is to use ckermit on Unix to connect interactively I to VMS, invoke ckermit on VMS as a server, perform the transfer, end the  & ckermit server, invoke the DCL script.  1 It can be done manually or with kermit scripting.n   regardst sol gongola    Derek Cohn/WB0TUA wrote: >  > Dear All,e > ? > I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question abouta% > initiating a VMS command from Unix.e > H > We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on > VMS to handle the file.l > D > We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMSB > using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatG > activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.r > # > Can any of you help me with this?l > 	 > Thanks!R >  > Derek Cohn > DCohn@express-scripts.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:56:10 -0600 5 From: "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@mbco.com>f0 Subject: RE: Initiating Command on VMS from UnixN Message-ID: <6A998621840A594EAFD672A543B14A040193E71B@usmbcusmkexmb01.mbc.com>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ; ------=_NextPartTM-000-c3188694-e94b-4ba6-b13c-56813ca61a32-$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;1 	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C2D858.A158CECE"v  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D858.A158CECEs Content-Type: text/plain;v 	charset="iso-8859-1"g  " Here's how to do it interactively:  C 1) On unix box, create file .netrc with chgmod 600 in default logind	 directorys6 2) Put an entry in the .netrc file for the vms system:; machine myvmsnode login myvmsloginid password myvmspasswordp  3) rexec myvmsnode "show system"  / This will not work unless .netrc is chgmod 600.y  $ Doug Hipenbecker, Miller Brewing Co.   -----Original Message-----C From: vibroplex@mindspring.com [  <mailto:vibroplex@mindspring.com>o  mailto:vibroplex@mindspring.com]+ Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:24 AM> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com,, Subject: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix    	 Dear All,i  = I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question abouti# initiating a VMS command from Unix.t  F We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on VMS to handle the file.n  B We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMS@ using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatE activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.t  ! Can any of you help me with this?    Thanks!   
 Derek Cohn DCohn@express-scripts.comt      ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D858.A158CECEe Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"u  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE>   < <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4919.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>Q <P><FONT size=2>Here's how to do it interactively:<BR><BR>1) On unix box, create rQ file .netrc with chgmod 600 in default login directory<BR>2) Put an entry in the .C netrc file for the vms system:<BR>machine <EM>myvmsnode</EM> login  B <EM>myvmsloginid</EM> password <EM>myvmspassword<BR></EM>3) rexec + <EM>myvmsnode</EM> "show system"</FONT></P>eJ <P><FONT size=2>This will not work unless .netrc is chgmod 600.</FONT></P>? <P><FONT size=2>Doug Hipenbecker, Miller Brewing Co.</FONT></P>lM <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: vibroplex@mindspring.com j8 [</FONT><A href="mailto:vibroplex@mindspring.com"><FONT I size=2>mailto:vibroplex@mindspring.com</FONT></A><FONT size=2>]<BR>Sent:  O Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:24 AM<BR>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR>Subject:  Q Initiating Command on VMS from Unix<BR><BR><BR>Dear All,<BR><BR>I'm working on a fN VMS Alpha platform and have a question about<BR>initiating a VMS command from Q Unix.<BR><BR>We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process  N on<BR>VMS to handle the file.<BR><BR>We have a simple UNIX script that copies O the file from UNIX to VMS<BR>using FTP.&nbsp; However, we'd like to add a line aH to that script that<BR>activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is 8 successfully copied.<BR><BR>Can any of you help me with " this?<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>Derek > Cohn<BR>DCohn@express-scripts.com<BR></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>  ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2D858.A158CECE--   = ------=_NextPartTM-000-c3188694-e94b-4ba6-b13c-56813ca61a32--f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:38:36 -0000t! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>r0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix/ Message-ID: <v57uaslf8rs53e@corp.supernews.com>   3 Derek Cohn/WB0TUA <vibroplex@mindspring.com> wrote:e? : I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question aboute% : initiating a VMS command from Unix.t  H : We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on : VMS to handle the file.b  D : We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMSB : using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatG : activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.o  # : Can any of you help me with this?h  > You could pass the command in e-mail.  Have a batch job on the@ VMS box that reads e-mail eveyr so often and processes commands.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:01:57 -0400m0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix/ Message-ID: <3E53F0C1.35D4CB03@vl.videotron.ca>n   Derek Cohn/WB0TUA wrote:H > We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on > VMS to handle the file.,  M There have been many discussions of this over the years. One way you could do M this is via email. User the "DELIVER" package on VMS and setup one mailbox onmH VMS to use DELIVER (set forward). When an email is received, the deliverM software is triggered and you can then check to see if the email is one whicha' should trigger processing of your file.>  L If the file is plain text, you could forget about FTP and just send it as anG email to that mailbox on VMS and have deliver automatically trigger andr execute the processing.>  Q Deliver is on the VMS freeware CD (check out the www.openvms.compaq.com web site)o   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 17:48:57 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix1 Message-ID: <b311kp$gr5$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   + In article <3E53E7EB.C27F6E8F@adldata.com>,e% sol gongola  <sol@adldata.com> wrote:a : Derek Cohn/WB0TUA wrote:A : > I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question abouto' : > initiating a VMS command from Unix.i : > J : > We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on : > VMS to handle the file.i : > F : > We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMSD : > using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatI : > activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.m :rI : You can have a repeating batch that checks for the existance of a file,dG : invokes the DCL command and resubmits itself to to check for the fileh : a while later.   : F The problem with that approach is that the file might be in the middle9 of being transferred.  There are ways around this, but...   J : I think the best way is to use ckermit on Unix to connect interactively K : to VMS, invoke ckermit on VMS as a server, perform the transfer, end the u( : ckermit server, invoke the DCL script. : 3 : It can be done manually or with kermit scripting.b : I There are plenty of examples you can follow in the Kermit script library:   /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html    Here's an example:     set exit warning off5   define \%u JOEUSER                   ; VMS usernamet   undef \%pl?   set host somehost.com                ; Make Telnet connectiono.   if fail exit 1 Connection failed     ; CheckD   while not defined \%p {              ; Prompt locally for password       askq \%p { Password: }   }t=   input 10 {Username: }                ; Get Username: prompta#   if fail exit 1 No Username prompta=   output \%u\13                        ; Send username and CRc=   input 5 {Password: }                 ; Get Password: prompt-=   output \%u\13                        ; Send password and CRhC   undef \%p                            ; Erase password from memoryy7   input 20 \13$\32                     ; Get DCL prompt    if fail exit 1 No DCL prompt<   output kermit -x\13                  ; Start Kermit serverA   input READY TO SERVE...              ; Wait til Kermit is ready #   if fail exit 1 Can't start Kermit 6   send somefile                        ; Send the file5   if fail {                            ; If it failedr9       bye                              ; Log out from VMS.>       exit 1 Send failed               ; and exit this script.   }0G   remote host @dclcommand.com          ; Tell server to run DCL program85   if fail {                            ; If it failed.9       bye                              ; Log out from VMS1>       exit 1 DCL command failed        ; and exit this script.   }a9   bye                                  ; Log out from VMSt?   exit                                 ; Exit from local Kermit   H The password prompting is (obviously) because you don't want to put yourE password in a file.  If the VMS system sends a "What Are You?" escapeaE sequence the script will need to look for it and answer it to avoid a H lengthy timeout on the VMS side.  Having the VMS C-Kermit server run theG DCL command takes care of timing and synchronization problems you mights" have if you did it some other way.   - Frankp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:24:45 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix. Message-ID: <x7W4a.22$7W3.10@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <v57uaslf8rs53e@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:t4 :Derek Cohn/WB0TUA <vibroplex@mindspring.com> wrote:@ :: I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question about& :: initiating a VMS command from Unix. : I :: We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process onn :: VMS to handle the file. :3E :: We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMS C :: using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatfH :: activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied. :i$ :: Can any of you help me with this? :a? :You could pass the command in e-mail.  Have a batch job on theeA :VMS box that reads e-mail eveyr so often and processes commands.   E   That will certainly work and is a reasonable approach, but periodicAF   processing of MAIL messages or of a directory file (as will be laterE   suggested in this reply :-) is often considered a little ugly.  (If C   using mail-based commands, one also needs to be supremely carefulsC   about what the commands are and about the execution context, lestnE   a nefarious-minded user drop an interesting command or two into thet5   mail message(s).  Anyone can send mail, of course.)-  E   rexec or rsh would be among the easiest and would be typically usedoF   by UNIX programmers for the original situation, and support for bothE   is readily available on OpenVMS with TCP/IP Services and also very g8   likely available with the other third-party IP stacks.  F   Another option is to FTP the file then to rename it, and this allowsF   a daemon running on OpenVMS to periodically search the directory forF   files of a specified name, looking for work.  (Folks that want to doB   a little more coding on OpenVMS could configure and then captureB   OpenVMS security alarms and use these to immediately trigger theB   required file processing.)  BTW: the RENAME reduces the exposure;   of the daemon to a file transfer currently in progress...r  D   Another option is to pass the host and file to OpenVMS and have it$   pull over the file and process it.  5   Or NFS mount the directory structure in question...M  .   I am sure there are (many) other approaches.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.come   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Feb 2003 17:04:29 -00006 From: Put The Loser Behind Bars <where@he.belongs.com>8 Subject: Re: JF Mezei security alert at Montreal airport9 Message-ID: <SXJI0I2I37668.7531134259@Gilgamesh-frog.org>g  ' James Robinson <wascana@212.com> wrote:n   >JF Mezei wrote: >>K >> Saw a plane (Air Canada probably) take off, with total disregard for the = >> supposed 07:00 am curfew which is so conveniently ignored.  >nE >What kind of plane?  Quiet aircraft like the CRJ are exempt from theoF >curfew.  Further, there are a couple of flights that have grandfather; >rights, as they existed before the curfew was implemented.n  O A better question is what the fuck is he doing loitering around the airport at n& 6am.  Time to alert Montreal Police...   http://www.infocrimecum.qc.ca/  % And the RCMP would be a good idea tooo   http://www.rcmp.ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:03:03 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingB/ Message-ID: <3E52E5BC.B3BC1C92@vl.videotron.ca>    Patrick Young wrote:. > PS: I HATE/LOATHE/DETEST Australian summers.  D Come here for just a week when it is -25 all day, and you'll come toF appreciate Aussie summer, the ability to step outside withoutr fear ofK freezing, the ability to even think about going for a swim in the ocean .... need I go on ?  I OK, so today, we have a very warm day, the temperature went up to -5, thea! warmest it's been in a long time.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:15:28 GMTd# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>t1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing)> Message-ID: <AU74a.106877$QQ4.1539917@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  G Thanks for asking Sue.  I am sitting here in my home office in Florida, G telecommuting.  I am looking out the window at the guys on the 9'th tee I about to tee off and wishing I was out there with them.  See, we all haveu our crosses to bear.  > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message6 news:857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com... > Dear Newsgroup,, >tH > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.a >s  > Please take care of your self. >n
 > Big hug, >A > Sue  >,   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:36:42 -0500t* From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingf5 Message-ID: <170220031136427715%paul.anderson@hp.com>h  @ In article <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>, Sue. Skonetski <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote:  H > Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getH > another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabin > fever has set in.e  D I like lots of snow, so this kind of weather is a joy to me.  What'sE really unpleasant is 95 degrees and 95% humidity for days or weeks oneF end in the middle of the summer.  I keep telling my wife, forget aboutE going to Florida for a week's vacation in the winter; I need a week'st- vacation in Iceland to escape summer weather!e   Paul   -- e  Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Companyn   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:02:35 GMTn7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) 1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing / Message-ID: <vI74a.152772$vm2.108989@rwcrnsc54>e  c In article <8fFSEYEHFRc+@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:uq >In article <857e9e41.0302170716.895eb34@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:s > I >> Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getwI >> another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabinb >> fever has set in. >a >"We feel your pain."a >r >Larry Kilgallen3 >writing from down south in balmy Massachusetts :-)e  K I don't know what country *you* are living in, but we have more than enough-$ snow here, thank you very much!		:-)  - I envy those few who have telecommuting jobs.r  % Brad - writing from snowy central MA.r  A _________________________________________________________________:0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:46:55 +0000Y' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyt6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3E51200F.9030909@nospamn.sun.com>   Greg Cagle wrote:d* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > H >> The costs per wafer depend on the FAB and the company and clearly the% >> yield per wafer is very important.e >>F >> Incedentally Sun is unlikely to share yield data with anyone simply3 >> because we don't have a FAB so its not relevant.e >  > E > Huh? Of course it's relevant - it's key to the availability and thesJ > costing of the chip. But I can understand why Sun wouldn't want to share7 > that 8^). Not having a fab has nothing to do with it.- > L >>> So.  Is the architecture just out of gas?  I mean, you're at 130 and notH >>> keeping up with the "sluggish" Itanium 2 at 180.  When will you get 
 >>> to 90?I >>> What happens when Itanium gets to 90?  How much farther do you think   >>> process<I >>> shrink will take Sparc?  Can you throw enough money at the problem toa >>> compete? >>>h >>@ >> You have been reading too many marketing bulletins hence yourD >> missimpression that SPARC cannot keep up with sluggish Itanium 2. >  > D > Well, since Sun is benchmark-shy we'll just have to take your wordC > on that 8^). Or do you have some actual data? Maybe a SPEC number 4 > or two? I can't seem to find any on the SPEC site. >    Why would SPEC be interesting ?-  B A claimed 50% uplift for feedback directed optimisation on Itanium< will really help people work out what the likely performance, of their app vendors product will be in IPF.  D And how many customers use SPEC as a measure when they decide to buy systems and why ?c  B Incedentally the party line from Compaq/HP or at least from Freddy> which is the same thing on this newsgroup is that SPEC results' are irrelevant or words to that effect.t    F >> It can and sluggish would be better used to describe Itanium sales. >>H >> But to answer your question, by the time Itanium gets to 90 nanometerH >> which is slated for 2005 (though as we now know Itanium roadmaps have> >> that rather maleable feel to them) SPARC will be on USIV/V. >  > A > Do you really want to revisit the history of Sun vaporware chip: > announcements and delays?. >   9 Its all relative and SPARC is relatively better than IPF.$  C >> Nor are we having to throw the kind of money at the problem thatS >> HP and Intel have to. >>E >> At 5 billion dollars Itanium represents a 10x + cost jump over anyyC >> comparable processor with little or no sign of these costs everyo? >> being recouped and thats before you factor in the FAB costs.a >>C >> SPARC processors cost us a fraction of that and we don't have to ! >> include the FAB costs in that.r >  > > > Excuse me? Then who is paying for the fab? You think TI just< > invests in it for the hell of it without passing the costs > along to Sun?s >   : Well why not, TI don't just use their 130 nanometer FAB to build UltraSPARC processors !e   Regardsl Andrew Harrisonn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:24:02 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31. Message-ID: <3E50E272.3000207@nospamn.sun.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  N > What is true, is that despite whatever claims of "bleeding edge" process youM > might make - and clearly 130 or 150 or 180 mean *different things dependinghN > on the FAB and the rest of the process* - your only claim of an advantage isK > yield and power consumption.  A high yield is good, but of course I don't:N > expect that Sun or Intel are sharing the yield data with us to know how goodM > it is - and a lot more goes into it than wafer and feature size.  Less heat)M > is good too, especially for low end and mobile computing - which it will beh; > a while before IA32 is displaced from owning that market.y >   H Wonderfully scientific response. Clearly 130 nanometer and 180 nanometerD mean the same thing regardless of the FAB. Its the process size. YouC then have the wafer size and the die size. These also mean the same- thing regardless of the FAB.  D You then have the yield that also means the same thing regardless of the FAB.  E The costs per wafer depend on the FAB and the company and clearly the-" yield per wafer is very important.  C Incedentally Sun is unlikely to share yield data with anyone simplyt0 because we don't have a FAB so its not relevant.    J > So.  Is the architecture just out of gas?  I mean, you're at 130 and notL > keeping up with the "sluggish" Itanium 2 at 180.  When will you get to 90?N > What happens when Itanium gets to 90?  How much farther do you think processG > shrink will take Sparc?  Can you throw enough money at the problem tov
 > compete? >   = You have been reading too many marketing bulletins hence youriA missimpression that SPARC cannot keep up with sluggish Itanium 2.p  C It can and sluggish would be better used to describe Itanium sales.t  E But to answer your question, by the time Itanium gets to 90 nanometerpE which is slated for 2005 (though as we now know Itanium roadmaps haveg; that rather maleable feel to them) SPARC will be on USIV/V.i  @ Nor are we having to throw the kind of money at the problem that HP and Intel have to.   B At 5 billion dollars Itanium represents a 10x + cost jump over any@ comparable processor with little or no sign of these costs every< being recouped and thats before you factor in the FAB costs.  @ SPARC processors cost us a fraction of that and we don't have to> include the FAB costs in that. In addition unlike HP and Intel; Sun along with IBM is able to amortise the cost of the coree5 processor design over more than one processor family.   ? Sun has the Ultra IIIi is currently based on the UltraIII core,H9 similar story with the IBM Power 970. Ditto for UltraIIIis
 followons.  ; Both processors are designed for high volume, low cost, lowa< power consumption servers, a market that even with Deerfield8 Intel look increasingly likely to miss entirely with IPF; until the 2006-2007 timeframes. >70 watts and >1000 dollarss! is just too much for a processor.a   regardse Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 09:40:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: OpenVMS Itanium Boot Surveya3 Message-ID: <Ho8jvZq0E4nI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <h374a.22487$If5.687352@twister.southeast.rr.com>, "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> writes:  ; > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Survey_Introductionw  @ It seems more viable than some surveys, except for the mandatory	 question:s  9 	5. What impact does this have on your buying intentions?-  * which does not allow a "no impact" answer.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 12:50:53 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)M Subject: Re: Pathworks ACL entries impact PCSI and system boot during upgrade.= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0302191250.3c11654c@posting.google.com>U  r karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote in message news:<19FEB03.14590504@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>...@ > In a previous article, jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) wrote: > L > ->.. I assume it would be safe to just go through the directory and remove > ->all the pathworks ACLs.  v > E > Yes. You are aware of the PWRK$DELETEACE.EXE image that can do thiseB > I trust. Of course it's going to change every file revision date > for you too.    C Found it when I dug through the online manuals.  I put a call in tos@ CSC to verify the safety of using this utility on SYS$SYSTEM andA SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES files and they concurred.  Hopefully the file,' revision dates won't matter too much...I   Thanks for responding!   Rich   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 12:38:57 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a- Subject: Pathwors MacIntosh - %MSAP-E-PAPCONN.0 Message-ID: <b2ql51$opf$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  N with Pathworks for MacIntosh V1.3a on Alpha we recently have a problem: on theM console we get lots of messages (several per hour around the clock) like thish one:  #    Message from user SYSTEM on MPI6 <    %MSAP-E-PAPCONN, connection gone status 65446522 on ref 3  M It is always the same message code but the "ref number" varies (between 1 und- 3). I tried:)    $ SET MESSAGE sys$message:atk$messages +    $ WRITE sys$output F$MESSAGE( 65446522 ) 1    %ATK-E-PAP_INVREFNUM, Invalid reference numbersJ But I have no clue what this message means. The printer queues look pretty; normal, printing is all right, so what causes this message?v   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannc  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 13:43:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to ItaniumU3 Message-ID: <q7yioPDgj$lB@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  R In article <3E53D1AF.4F1BEA0B@cnbcom.net>, Lisa Popp <lisapopp@cnbcom.net> writes: > D > I need some input on what is recommended for applications that areI > porting from OpenVMS on Alpha to OpenVMS on Itanium that have MACRO-32?r > J > Will this be supported on Itanium?  If not what are the alternatives for7 > converting this code to something useable on Itanium?:  M 1. Yes.  See the announcements regarding booting of VMS on Itanium for proof.e  K 2. Converting to another language is always possible, but it is a good idea2K    not to change two aspects of any computing environment at the same time.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:10:55 -0500 & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>1 Subject: Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to Itaniume. Message-ID: <KER4a.95$OD3.85@news.cpqcorp.net>   Lisa Popp wrote:D > I need some input on what is recommended for applications that areI > porting from OpenVMS on Alpha to OpenVMS on Itanium that have MACRO-32?c > J > Will this be supported on Itanium?  If not what are the alternatives for7 > converting this code to something useable on Itanium?  > 	 > Thanks,e > -Lisa Popp >   I Yes, it will be supported on Itanium.  For the most part, it should just uH be a recompile.  There are some new directives required if you JSB from D a Macro-32 routine to an external routine written in a non-Macro-32  routine, for example.   @ As Larry mentioned, since a large part of OpenVMS is written in ) Macro-32, we need the compiler ourselves.F   -- e John Reagane' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderc Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 01:04:03 GMT-# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 1 Subject: Re: Porting MACRO-32 on Alpha to Itaniumf. Message-ID: <7QV4a.18$7W3.11@news.cpqcorp.net>  R In article <3E53D1AF.4F1BEA0B@cnbcom.net>, Lisa Popp <lisapopp@cnbcom.net> writes:  C :I need some input on what is recommended for applications that aretH :porting from OpenVMS on Alpha to OpenVMS on Itanium that have MACRO-32? :eI :Will this be supported on Itanium?  If not what are the alternatives fori6 :converting this code to something useable on Itanium?  E   As stated, a Macro32 compiler will be available on OpenVMS Itanium.m  G   I would not personally rule out the need to make some changes to the .C   existing Macro32 code, as Macro32 tends to be used in kernel-mode0F   code and other interfaces.  Applications that access kernel APIs mayB   well require some (re)work as part of the porting, for instance.  A   I'd look at the code itself, as there are and have been variouseC   reasons given for writing code in assembler.  Some are no longer  F   valid.  In some cases, there are direct and/or trivial substitutionsF   for the Macro32 code.  But if the code works with few or no changes,B   why translate it?  (There are certainly reasons to translate the   code, of course.)0  H   In your review of the code, look particularly for LINK/NOSYSLIB/SYSEXEH   (in OpenVMS Alpha code) or for references to SYS.STB (on OpenVMS VAX).H   These tend to imply inner-mode coding interfaces are used, and portingF   such privileged-mode code can potentially be somewhat more involved.  C   Additionally, there are a few minor assembler code syntax changesoB   that are recommended when moving Macro32 user-mode code from theD   VAX Macro32 assembler to the Alpha Macro32 compiler -- I'll assumeE   you have gotten your Macro32 code to clean compiler at least as faruD   as the OpenVMS Alpha native Macro32 compiler.  (This was the CALLS?   entry-point stuff, among other newer assembler declarations.)   D   As was mentioned in other replies, OpenVMS itself contains a largeC   pile of Macro32 code, so we too want as few syntax changes and aslE   much cross-platform source-level compatability as we can reasonablyo,   manage between all three of the platforms.  E   AFAIK, we are not presently planning to nor porting across Macro64;tB   we are not porting over the native Alpha assembler code, nor areC   we implementing an Itanium compiler for the native Alpha assemblyX   language on Itanium.  F   For previous similar discussions, please see the questions that were6   asked when we ported OpenVMS from VAX to Alpha.  :-)  F   I have a portability presentation around, too -- I offered it at theC   OpenVMS technical symposium, and I'll probably offer it again at oF   upcoming event(s).  If you poke around, you should find older copiesE   of the presentation -- though IIRC, the technical symposium versiond?   was the first to (start to) cover the Itanium considerations.e  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:26:42 -0500o5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>FY Subject: Press Release from Fortel - FORTEL Extends the Capabilities of the Sightline Ope . Message-ID: <hsN4a.54$fe3.22@news.cpqcorp.net>  G Subject: FORTEL Extends the Capabilities of the Sightline OpenVMS Power0 Agent7  > Additions Maximize Performance and Boost ROI for OpenVMS UsersI Fremont-California-February 18, 2003-FORTEL Inc. (OTC PK: FRTL) announcediB today that it has added new features and enhanced already existingK capabilities for the SightLine OpenVMS Power Agent that further advance itsoF management and reporting capabilities for OpenVMS users. The SightLineJ OpenVMS Power Agent is able to accomplish this through the addition of keyK new metric groups as well as enhancements to HotFile capabilities, advancedSD Workload Operator definitions, and support for the HP OpenVMS v7.3-1B Operating System."We are proud to introduce these new features andI enhancements to theSightLine OpenVMS Power Agent," said Asa Lanum, FORTELaK CEO. "Enterprise systems continue to expand, but cost containment remains a3	 priority.F  J The SightLine OpenVMS Power Agent responds to the growing need to optimizeL performance of existing investments in infrastructure." With the addition ofI Uptime Metrics, OpenVMS users will be able to receive reports on how longnK their system has been up during particular site-specific shifts in additionoD to total time of overall availability. Uptime Metric reports will beE generated according to the shifts the user has defined. The SightLinegJ OpenVMS Power Agent will also separately report on weekly shift uptime andH downtime as well as elapsed time of the shift. In addition, Current BootH Total Uptime will report on the number of days the whole system has beenH running since the last boot.  Current Boot This Month will separate thatG information on a monthly basis. Disk Controller Metrics will help usersiD manage host-based disk adapters by gathering information on SCSI andD Fibre-Channel disks. Special designations will report on whether theK collected information is from shadowed disk devices, software raid devices, H or hardware raid devices. XFC Metrics will record activity for each fileH that is accessed through the cache. This will include counts of read andK write activity and the amount of cache memory that is currently being used.0F File names, Input/Output (IO) Statistics, and Rates will be classifiedG within the XFC Event Classes. Enhancements to HotFile capabilities willsL allow users to set their own criteria for which files show the most activityK on the system. Parameters allow the SightLine OpenVMS Power Agent to selectaL files based on the total number of input/output (read and write) activities,L as opposed to the amount of data that is read and written. The Event classesJ for HotFile Counts and HotFile IO Statistics will now display the complete4 file information to better isolate particular files.  E The definition of Workloads within SightLine are enhanced through therG addition of "AND" operators. This new operator will allow more specificiJ definition criteria within a Workload through one or more "And" operators.I This increases flexibility to classify performance information in greatermI details and saves time in creating workloads.  In addition, the SightLine:L OpenVMS Power Agent is currently available for product shipment and supportsF the latest version of the HP OpenVMS operating system: OpenVMS v7.3-1.   About FORTEL  H FORTEL provides the first real-time performance management solution thatL assures business end-to-end service-level goals. FORTEL's SightLine suite isJ based on analysis and correlation software that has been applied and tunedE for more than 15 years in the systems management performance arena bySK customers in finance and banking, defense management, manufacturing, retail F services and government. FORTEL counts among its customers many of theF world's largest and most well known organizations and enterprises. TheJ Company is headquartered in Fremont, Calif., and can be contacted at (510)9 440-9600 or by visiting its web site at (www.fortel.com)./    FORTEL Public Relations Contact:   Emilio Dabul   Fusion Public Relations.   New York NYR   212-651-4216   emilio.dabul@fusionpr.comh   # # #i  B (c) 2003 FORTEL Inc. All rights reserved. FORTEL and SightLine are  F trademarks of FORTEL Inc. All other product or company names mentioned  ? in this release are trademarks of their respective corporationsm  F Except for historical information contained in this press release, the  D foregoing contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and  H uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from those indicated  B by such forward-looking statements based on a variety of risks and  D uncertainties, including risks and uncertainties relating to factors  G such as our ability to achieve the intended benefits of SightLine PowerT  E Agent, the timely and successful development and market acceptance ofA  H our products, services and features, our ability to successfully attract  F and retain customers, our profitability targets and financial metrics,  @ the number, size and duration of contracts, and software prices,  F activities of competitors, demand for our products, volume of business  F and general economic conditions. FORTEL is currently not in compliance  @ with the filing requirements of the U.S. Securities and Exchange  D Commission (the "SEC") and the risks and uncertainties above include  F potential adverse consequences relating to FORTEL's noncompliance with  F the SEC's filing requirements and its ability to become compliant with  E such requirements in the future. The guidance contained in this press_  G release is based on limited information available to the Company today,-  H which is subject to change. Although the guidance provided in this press  G release may change after today, the Company undertakes no obligation toD  F revise or update these forward-looking statements after today. Further  C information about potential factors that could affect our financialq  B results is included in our Quarterly Reports on Form 10-Q and most  C recent Annual Report on Form 10-K/A, which have been filed with theh  # Securities and Exchange Commission.U   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:26:09 +0100'2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)0 Subject: Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate.; Message-ID: <3e53cc41.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o   I wrote:M > The "hex dump" is a quadword (64 bit integer) containing the 100 nanosecondo > units since 1-JAN-1858 0:00.  < Arrggghhh... of course, the base date is 17-NOV-1858. Sorry.   cu,0   Martin -- zD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de.E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/o8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:47:26 GMT.# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)m0 Subject: Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate., Message-ID: <2QT4a.7$HS3.6@news.cpqcorp.net>  Z In article <1045623132.206874@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>, "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> writes:  M :Dump the vmsdata from RMS file, the data is 009CF82606617BC0, which is shownf1 :in readsble format is "20-NOV-1998 15:50:56.00".u :sK :Could you  advise aby idea how the relationship betweeen the hex dump datag= :and the readable date? Or any tools can make the conversion?e  F   I will assume this is a request for a Microsoft Windows program thatD   must read the binary data, as otherwise system services and a tripD   through the available OpenVMS documentation would have sufficed asE   an answer to this question.  (It is best to provide some backgroundEF   on most any question, as -- without this background -- you might notD   get an answer to the question you had intended to ask... :-)  One-C   and two-line questions are notoriously difficult to answer, given #   the potential for ambiguities...)n  E   Accordingly, please check the Google newsgroup archives as I expect F   that various Microsoft Windows programmers have already figured this$   one out, and have posted the code.  5   According to one previous Google-retrieved posting:o  . >"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message1 >news:app7qk$3o82c$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...>s >rK >On Windows a "Filetime" is the same as a VMS quadword time except the base + >time is 1-JAN-1600 instead of 17-NOV-1858.  >hK >Conversion is simply a matter of adding or subtracting the number of ticksg >between those base dates.    C   The above citation assumes that the quadword contains an absolutex@   time, and not a delta time.  (Read on for delta-time details.)  C   If I have guessed wrong, well, others have pointed at the OpenVMSLC   manuals and (hopefully) at the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions C   (FAQ) as a resource for OpenVMS information and programming help.bB   The FAQ in particular contains a large section on time, daylightE   savings time, and related topics -- the current manuals for OpenVMS B   also contain a central chapter on this topic, as well.  (The FAQ@   and the OpenVMS documentation and OpenVMS itself have all beenD   updated in response to the discussions, questions, problem reportsC   and new feature requests that have been seen here and elsewhere.)r  ?   The documentation indicates that the OpenVMS time format is a C   quadword (64-bit, little-endian) system time value containing theaF   number of 100-nanosecond units since midnight on 17-Nov-1858 (JulianE   Day 2,400,000.5, IIRC), or (when stored as a negative) contains thenC   number of 100-nanosecond units from the current time.  The formernC   of these format is known as an absolute time, while the latter is1G   a delta time.  If the quadword is zero, the time is the current time.v  F   I expect that the value found in your file will be an absolute time.  H   Time questions are fairly common, BTW -- Google and other search toolsC   and the FAQ can all be used to find various previous discussions.r  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:48:42 +0800 # From: "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> , Subject: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate.4 Message-ID: <1045623132.206874@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>  	 Dear All,p  L Dump the vmsdata from RMS file, the data is 009CF82606617BC0, which is shown0 in readsble format is "20-NOV-1998 15:50:56.00".  J Could you  advise aby idea how the relationship betweeen the hex dump data< and the readable date? Or any tools can make the conversion?   Thanks so much.e  
 Best Regards,a Albert.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:18:12 -0500p( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate.* Message-ID: <3E533DC4.90407@tsoft-inc.com>  
 Albert wrote:f   > Dear All,g > N > Dump the vmsdata from RMS file, the data is 009CF82606617BC0, which is shown2 > in readsble format is "20-NOV-1998 15:50:56.00". > L > Could you  advise aby idea how the relationship betweeen the hex dump data> > and the readable date? Or any tools can make the conversion? >  > Thanks so much.t >  > Best Regards,i	 > Albert.d    ? It's an 8 byte binary integer.  Forget the hex dump characters.a  ? Easiest way to see the data is on a VMS system.  Use ASCTIM or u LIB$CVT_FROM_INTERNAL_TIME.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:21:22 -0500e- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Quest: Readable format of  vmsdate.6 Message-ID: <b307dm$1h1a38$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>  
 Albert wrote:s >...E > Dump the vmsdata from RMS file, the data is 009CF82606617BC0, whichn; > is shown in readsble format is "20-NOV-1998 15:50:56.00".r >...    H One time I wrote a TPU macro for a programmer so she could edit an indexJ file, find the date by counting the columns and press a single key to giveB her the date. I might be able to find it again if anyone wants it.  G If you are just looking for a quick way to view it without getting inton' writing a program then this will do it;n  > $ binary_time[0,32] = %x06617bc0 ! low longword of binary date1 $ binary_time[32,32] = %x009cf826 ! high longword  $! $present_date: $ date_string=-nJ f$cvtime(f$fao("!%D",f$cvui(32,32,f$fao("!AD",8,binary_time))),"ABSOLUTE") $ show sym date_string  E But you should check out the documentation and FAQ's that others havei	 provided.e   -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that itr sub-contracts to.t   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 09:53:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t4 Subject: Re: Restore of System to a different Server3 Message-ID: <Ab7mQ3n$rW08@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  b In article <6f1d9079.0302140649.6bf36e9@posting.google.com>, SY1333@AOL.COM (Sean Yazdani) writes:G > Is it possible to restore a complete system backup (standalone image)sB > from one Alpha server to another Alpha server that has differentD > physical device names (e.g. from DRA0,1,2 to DKB0,100,200 but with  > same size, and both on 7.1-2). >   E As long as the target disk is large enough to hold the data this will- work.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:52:56 +0530e4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com>" Subject: stupid batch job questionI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260F0F770@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>e   Hi all, 4 I am trying to run a batch job from a subdirectory. 8 Assume home directory (sys$login) = dka100:[user.keshav]  L Batch job is residing on DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] by name MY.COM;1. It calls	 MY.SQL;1.i  H WHen I submit this job, it does a set default to sys$login and of courseH executes login.com. Since MY.SQL is not found there it returns an error.! What can be a workaround to this?m   With thanksc keshav7 +-----------------------------------------------------+h0 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            0 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  1 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             a0 	U.P, INDIA                                     6                                                       0 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          0 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    5       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS           7 +-----------------------------------------------------+g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:34:11 +0400 4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>& Subject: Re: stupid batch job question4 Message-ID: <1835046036.20030220093411@ncc.volga.ru>  C On 20.02.2003 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:   	 > Hi all,o6 > I am trying to run a batch job from a subdirectory. : > Assume home directory (sys$login) = dka100:[user.keshav]  N > Batch job is residing on DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] by name MY.COM;1. It calls > MY.SQL;1.   J > WHen I submit this job, it does a set default to sys$login and of courseJ > executes login.com. Since MY.SQL is not found there it returns an error.# > What can be a workaround to this?n     You could:L 1. Hardcode path to MY.SQL in MY.COM - DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]MY.SQL (ugly)H 2. Create logical name and reference MY.SQL with it - MY_SQL_PATH:MY.SQL6 3. Pass full path to MY.SQL as a parameter to MY.COM -2 submit/par=(DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]MY.SQL) my.com@ 4. If you are sure that MY.COM and MY.SQL are always in the same, directory, then you could try something like $ myproc = f$env("PROCEDURE")yE $ path = myproc-f$parse(myproc,,,"VERSION")-f$parse(myproc,,,"TYPE")-a   -f$parse(myproc,,,"NAME")n $ sql 'path'MY.SQL   --  
 Best regards,a#  Valentin                           (  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 11:04:14 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) Subject: The End of OpenVMS < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com>  F OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aB viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company that? views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool fors8 getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing.  C The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.  E It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in termsyE of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thateD IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forC release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor witha> Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next generation.n   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 17:05:43 -08007 From: jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones)t Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS = Message-ID: <8a646952.0302191705.2b2d5883@posting.google.com>c  l baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message news:<c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com>...H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool for-: > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing. > E > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there. wG > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in termsoG > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thatkF > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor with_@ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.m  
 Dear Baby,  C These tales of doom have been spelled before and will continue past-B your and my lifetime. Once upon a time, IBM was supposed to have aC "VAX-Killer" and it failed miserably. VMS is still here. In the end D there will be only IBM, Intel, AMD, and Sun be left as chipmakers. I@ believe with the Alpha team help on the Itanium development, theF Itanium will hold its own in time. Good Luck on your next crystal ball projection.    Daryl Jonese   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:34:18 -0600y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS ' Message-ID: <3E544CBA.E7ACD565@fsi.net>n   Baby Peanut wrote: > H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool forp: > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing. > D > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.G > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in termsoG > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thataF > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor withs@ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.o  G There is truth in what you say. However, VMS will not simply dry up and G blow away. It will be a long, slow tortuous death characterised by slowpE but steady attrition. Then, perhaps some 10 to 15 years from now, VMSo# will simply slip into EDP oblivion.n  C ...barring any miracles, like a balls-out, throttle to the firewalleE marketing campaign, promises and commitments actually being kept, ...  that sort of thing.   C You know, stuff that's as likely as WhineBlows ever being ready forn prime time.u   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 03:51:41 GMT># From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>w Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS G Message-ID: <hhY4a.18802$Zr%.2108@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   D "Daryl Jones" <jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message7 news:8a646952.0302191705.2b2d5883@posting.google.com...i5 > baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in messaget8 news:<c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com>...E > > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survivec as aF > > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatC > > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool forc< > > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing. > >oF > > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.C > > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in  termslD > > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thatD > > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due for B > > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor withB > > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next > > generation.O >V > Dear Baby, >uE > These tales of doom have been spelled before and will continue pastrD > your and my lifetime. Once upon a time, IBM was supposed to have aE > "VAX-Killer" and it failed miserably. VMS is still here. In the end F > there will be only IBM, Intel, AMD, and Sun be left as chipmakers. IB > believe with the Alpha team help on the Itanium development, theC > Itanium will hold its own in time. Good Luck on your next crystalt ball
 > projection.s    D Sorry to tell you that the AS/400 did remarkably well for IBM.. bothF as the successor to System 36 and 38 systems, and as a significant VAXE sale thief even at sites that did not have a System 36/38 to replace. E AS/400 had a pretty big catalog of 3rd party applications available -c- probably bigger than Digital had for VAX/VMS.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:58:20 -0400.0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSe/ Message-ID: <3E54604D.B2B9A6D7@vl.videotron.ca>h   Highly Theoretical Question:  K If Intel abandons IA64 development in say 2-3 years, replacing it with a 64n" bit 8086 competing against Hammer.  G *IF* HP doesn't see much long term potential for VMS, would they botheroM re-porting VMS, or would they simply stick with whatever IA64 is available at  that time for X years ?g  N If, at that time, MIPS were still being developped, would HP switch its TandemL product line back to MIPS or would it port Tande, to 64 bit 8086 after Intel has added lockstep ?  N If IA64 is declared stillborn in a couple of years, I wonder if it wouldn't beH just easier for HP to revive PA-Risc instead of porting HP-UX once more.  E I see IA64 a bit like OSI. OSI was to have been the industry standardmL networking. Digital adopted it and spent big bucks on it, but in the end, itM si TCPIP which became the industry standard. Intel wanted to portray the IA64 H as the future industry standard. HP is betting its business on it. But ID really don't see that chip becoming anywhere near industry standard.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 22:20:12 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson)e Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS = Message-ID: <734da31c.0302192220.6c057cd2@posting.google.com>y  l baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message news:<c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com>...H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool for : > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing.  F I think most users use VMS because they like it and know that it worksD very well. What the company does is important but of less concern. IE think that HP is a better owner than Compaq. Compaq was a PC company.nD I hardly think VMS users are kidding themselves, they know perfectly well how the situation is.  E > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there. -G > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in termsgG > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thattF > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor withF@ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.u  A From what I have seen and tested myself Itanium 2 and Power4+ arefF about equal in terms of performance. Itanium 2 is a bit faster on someC things and Power4+ is a bit faster on others. It is not what I call-C "wipes the floor"... IBM had PDF file on their web site a while agomC where a 4 way IBM Itanium 2 system was compared with a 8 way Power4s0 1300Mhz and they had about the same performance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:30:22 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e. Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE' Message-ID: <3E52EC3E.49E5E8DB@fsi.net>.   "C.W.Holeman II" wrote:  >  > What is Unix for:d >  >  $ SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETEe  ( To my knowledge, there is no equivalent.   --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE SystemsL http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:56:21 -0800t# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e. Subject: RE: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEDJGKAA.tom@kednos.com>l  A Since this involves as a first step writing some pattern of bytes!E to the file on disk, the Unix equivalent might be to to pull the file7F in with an editor, wipe out its contents, save and then 'rm' the file.J This requires about 4 lines of code using, e.g. ed and rm and should be no' less efficient than the VMS counterpartM   >-----Original Message-----n7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]e) >Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:30 PMt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com/ >Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETEc >n >n >"C.W.Holeman II" wrote: >> t >> What is Unix for: >>   >>  $ SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE >e) >To my knowledge, there is no equivalent.E >s >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  >%) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:e  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >a >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.l; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003- >- ----& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:06:44 GMT.1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> . Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE2 Message-ID: <3E545420.E3DA611E@firstdbasource.com>   Tom Linden wrote:- > C > Since this involves as a first step writing some pattern of bytesmG > to the file on disk, the Unix equivalent might be to to pull the filenH > in with an editor, wipe out its contents, save and then 'rm' the file.  G Wiping out contents sounds a lot like "delete all lines then save" when B it acutally means, replace each character in file with a known bitH pattern such as: replace each character with a one or a zero etc... then save.     L > This requires about 4 lines of code using, e.g. ed and rm and should be no) > less efficient than the VMS counterparta >  > >-----Original Message-----m9 > >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]C+ > >Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:30 PMb > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 > >Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETEm > >t > >s > >"C.W.Holeman II" wrote: > >> > >> What is Unix for: > >>  > >>  $ SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE > >a+ > >To my knowledge, there is no equivalent.M > >3 > >--p > >David J. Dachtera > >dba DJE Systems > >http://www.djesys.com/a > > + > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:e" > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.v= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).wC > >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003a > >n > ---m( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003     -- B Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 14:22:15 -0800. From: hgutierrez@futurecomgroup.com (henry g.)  Subject: Volume set across RAID5= Message-ID: <6a7a8ae5.0302191422.40705087@posting.google.com>t  A Can anyone tell me what the benefit or disadvantage of creating a * Volume set across a 6-disk RAID5 array is?  ? I have a customer with an IBM Netfinity 5500 6-disk RAID5 arrayfC running NT4 server.  Their data partition is 7.6GB extended with an1/ additional 8.6GB to create a volume set 16.2GB.o  B I know the ramifications of a volume set, or disk striping withoutB parity, but how is this affected when it is spread over a hardwareC RAID5 array?  If a disk were to fail what will happen to the volumeoF set?  Will it be preserved because of the hardware controlled RAID5 orA will the Set be destroyed (as it would if it were not part of thel array)?V  B I will be upgrading their server over the course of the year and IA need to be able to adequately explain what they have and what the  benefit, or lack there of, is.   Please explain.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:08:22 -0500a3 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> $ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID59 Message-ID: <__T4a.4465$ls3.2046@fe09.atl2.webusenet.com>    Here is a basic 2-bit tour:   F Hardware RAID5 is fault tolerant in that any one disk can fail and theL volume will be intact.  A replacement disk can be added without downtime (ifJ the RAID controller is any good).  You lose capacity of 1 disk when you goH RAID5.  For example, (6) 9-gig drives will yield 45-gigs usable.  If youL create 2 RAID5 sets from the 6 disks, you end up with the capacity of only 4L disks.  You always lose one to parity on each set.  I have heard some modernC controllers can lose 2 disks and still maintain a volume, using newi technology.r  K For the best fault tolerance, mirroring is good (RAID1 IIRC).  However, youo lose half the disk capacity.J There are also speed considerations.  In a RAID5, parity must be generatedJ and written for each write.  Mirroring is faster.  Striping without parity (RAID0) is the fastest.v    ; "henry g." <hgutierrez@futurecomgroup.com> wrote in messageo7 news:6a7a8ae5.0302191422.40705087@posting.google.com...iC > Can anyone tell me what the benefit or disadvantage of creating ar, > Volume set across a 6-disk RAID5 array is? >dA > I have a customer with an IBM Netfinity 5500 6-disk RAID5 arrayaE > running NT4 server.  Their data partition is 7.6GB extended with anr1 > additional 8.6GB to create a volume set 16.2GB.o >tD > I know the ramifications of a volume set, or disk striping withoutD > parity, but how is this affected when it is spread over a hardwareE > RAID5 array?  If a disk were to fail what will happen to the volumeeH > set?  Will it be preserved because of the hardware controlled RAID5 orC > will the Set be destroyed (as it would if it were not part of thed	 > array)?  >pD > I will be upgrading their server over the course of the year and IC > need to be able to adequately explain what they have and what the   > benefit, or lack there of, is. >h > Please explain.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:39:29 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>>$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5' Message-ID: <3E544DF1.8B5B135D@fsi.net>Q   "henry g." wrote:q > C > Can anyone tell me what the benefit or disadvantage of creating a-, > Volume set across a 6-disk RAID5 array is? > A > I have a customer with an IBM Netfinity 5500 6-disk RAID5 array E > running NT4 server.  Their data partition is 7.6GB extended with ans1 > additional 8.6GB to create a volume set 16.2GB.o > D > I know the ramifications of a volume set, or disk striping withoutD > parity, but how is this affected when it is spread over a hardwareE > RAID5 array?  If a disk were to fail what will happen to the volumeiH > set?  Will it be preserved because of the hardware controlled RAID5 orC > will the Set be destroyed (as it would if it were not part of thed	 > array)?t > D > I will be upgrading their server over the course of the year and IC > need to be able to adequately explain what they have and what theb  > benefit, or lack there of, is. >  > Please explain.g  @ I think you misunderstand the concept of a RAIDset. A RAIDset isG presented to VMS by the controller as a SINGLE device, not a collectionk of devices.   E You can, however, build a volume-set consisting of multiple RAIDsets.aB VMS just thinks each RAIDset is a separate disk device, and has no& knowledge of the underlying structure.   Hope this helps.   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Feb 2003 15:15:30 -0800- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)s Subject: Watcher doubtsv= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0302191515.701b22d8@posting.google.com>l  H Im using Watcher Idle Killer in my job - We have 8 VAX V5.5-2 machines.@ I can run Watcher in 5 machines, but in other 3 I cant do this.E I dont know what happens, but Watcher doesnt run in 3 VAX machines.aC Is there any site where I can get more informations about Watcher ? C (in these 3 machines, when I issue sh sys I get any process in the t  - swapped out - state ).w Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:53:50 -0400n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: What happened to Microsoft ? / Message-ID: <3E540AF2.48D0CF58@vl.videotron.ca>d  N Sicne the .COM bomb, Microsoft fell from $120 down to a $50 to $60 range which( it was able to maintain for a long time.  8 I happened to check its stock today and it is at $24.50   F Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:47:26 -0800c$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>) Subject: RE: What happened to Microsoft ?s0 Message-ID: <01C2D82E.3A36CB80@sulfer.icius.com>   Yup. Stock split yesterday.F   Shanei   -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]i* Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:54 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como% Subject: What happened to Microsoft ?e    H Sicne the .COM bomb, Microsoft fell from $120 down to a $50 to $60 range which ( it was able to maintain for a long time.  8 I happened to check its stock today and it is at $24.50   F Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.099 ************************