1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 100       Contents: Re: "Real Computer" G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft P Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft MonopolyP Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly Acrobat Viewer and OpenVMS Data in shareable image  Re: Data in shareable image 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 1 Re: Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface. P Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopoP Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopol6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?6 Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup?; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems E Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolG Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly G Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix ( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing> Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software)B Re: Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software)B Re: Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software)$ Need help passing text to executable( Re: Need help passing text to executable  Re: netperf 2.2pl3 now available+ Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? % Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 ) Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 ) Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 & Questions about simh & OpenVMS install Rename of SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0]% Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR ) Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR   Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit. Re: stupid batch job question  Re: stupid batch job question  Re: stupid batch job question  SYSUAF Proxy telnet to Win2000 from VMS Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMS Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMS Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS	 UCX error  Re: UCX error (SS$_NOPRIV)% Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE % Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE   Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Watcher doubts  Re: What happened to Microsoft ? XPDF and print [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ? Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?* [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:26:27 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: "Real Computer"; Message-ID: <01KSNZ6HFILM9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F >    Once upon a time I would have said so, too.  But my desktop Alpha >    changed my mind.   I Some wise soul once said that you know the science fiction you have been  C reading is old when the computers get larger and larger with time,    rather than smaller and smaller.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 08:09:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft3 Message-ID: <pHp65bYKNopV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3E5386E7.B799F085@yahoo.com>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:  > Russell Wallace wrote:H >> Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-builtI >> Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :)  > ? > Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer.   D    Once upon a time I would have said so, too.  But my desktop Alpha    changed my mind.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 20 Feb 03 12:32:00 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly + Message-ID: <b32kbb$d34$6@bob.news.rcn.net>   ) In article <3E5386E7.B799F085@yahoo.com>, -    Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:  >Russell Wallace wrote: H >> Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-builtI >> Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :)  > > >Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer.  ? This is such a hook for a lewd line that I've been writing then < deleting them for a day now?  I've been thinking about ball  counters and Clinton.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:28:56 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> Y Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly ' Message-ID: <3E550248.1020007@MMaz.com>    Peter Flass wrote:   >Russell Wallace wrote:  >    > G >>Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-built H >>Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :) >>     >> > > >Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer. >    > E So the VAX 4000/100 we've been running our company on for ten years,  F which can easily sit on a desk, isn't a real computer, geeze!!!  Your E qualifications of a 'real computer' are so arbitrary and irrational,  I next someone will be stupid enough to state that if it doesn't have a BI   bus, it isn't a real backplane!      Barry    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:27:01 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de># Subject: Acrobat Viewer and OpenVMS : Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKCEGHCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  E I did try to install the Acrobat Viewer under OpenVMS V7.3-1 and Java I V1.3.1-5 and V1.4.0-1 without any success. If I did use the Fast VMS, the L InstallAnyWhere window raise and the install hangs. If I did use the classicL VM I did get an "execption in main" after the InstallAnyWhere window raised,K then this window closed and the Acrobat Viewer install window is displayed. H Then the installation hangs too. A call to TCSC Mnchen hsowed, that theG Acrobat Viewer function only with Java V1.1.8-5. Does anybody know news 1 about the Acrobat Viewer and newer Java versions?    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:01:34 +0100 4 From: "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se>  Subject: Data in shareable image, Message-ID: <3e54bf02$1_7@news.teranews.com>   Hi,   H I'll try to give a brief explanation of my problem. I've understood thatK using a shareable image for sharing data/communicating between processes is F considered a bad idea in general, but this is an issue of updates to aK legacy system (which pretty much rules out using any other approach for the  time being).   --L I have a problem sharing data between processes through a shareable image onJ an Alpha OpenVMS system. The data is declared as a C struct, linked into aH shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition fromI another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data in C the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.   J I can "fix it" by adding a "char dummy[4]" to the end of the struct, so itJ basically seems to be a padding problem when the last member of the structJ isn't a multiple of 8 bytes. What is a bit surprising for me, is why the CI _program_ expects the size to be padded, but the shared image 'truncates' B the struct. The compiler and linker are the same for both modules.  H So, am I correct in my assumption here? If so, is there any way avoiding7 this without resorting to manual padding of the struct?    TIA // Johan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:25:15 +0000 (UTC) 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> $ Subject: Re: Data in shareable image1 Message-ID: <b336ia$883$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    Hi,   J Apparently it's a standard that (all?) compilers except MACRO adhere to onL Alpha. What did you declare the installed in-memory copy with? I recall JohnD Reagan gave the answer a year or two ago but it should be in Google.   Regards Richard Maher   = Johan Nilsson <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se> wrote in message & news:3e54bf02$1_7@news.teranews.com... > Hi,  > J > I'll try to give a brief explanation of my problem. I've understood thatJ > using a shareable image for sharing data/communicating between processes isH > considered a bad idea in general, but this is an issue of updates to aI > legacy system (which pretty much rules out using any other approach for  the  > time being). >  > --K > I have a problem sharing data between processes through a shareable image  onL > an Alpha OpenVMS system. The data is declared as a C struct, linked into aJ > shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition fromK > another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data in E > the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.  > L > I can "fix it" by adding a "char dummy[4]" to the end of the struct, so itL > basically seems to be a padding problem when the last member of the structL > isn't a multiple of 8 bytes. What is a bit surprising for me, is why the CK > _program_ expects the size to be padded, but the shared image 'truncates' D > the struct. The compiler and linker are the same for both modules. > J > So, am I correct in my assumption here? If so, is there any way avoiding9 > this without resorting to manual padding of the struct?  >  > TIA // Johan >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:34:51 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch3 Message-ID: <Lq05a.11482$Rb4.140040@news.chello.at>    In article <rdeininger-1902032205490001@user-uinj4fa.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: N >In article <YKT4a.6200$Rb4.92167@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote:5 >>In article <DTT6Ces6IIl$@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:H >>>   The combination of the latest kernel and ucxdriver patches seem toJ >>>   have cured it.  Felt so good, I downloaded most of the other patchesF >>>   for 4.3.  Just had to remember to reinstall MULTINET:USER.CLD inI >>>   DCLTABLES tso that telnet would be Multinet's telnet and not DEC's.  >>N >>That reminds my of another advantage of TCPware: It uses symbols, not verbs. >  >Why is that an advantage?  & Then answer is in the above paragraph.M eg. One can switch between the IP stacks by reboot instead of reinstallation. L (Or maybe even by shutting down one stack and start the other one). And thenB switch the utilities by defining (other) symbols or deleting them.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 03:47 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) > Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch- Message-ID: <20FEB200303473251@gerg.tamu.edu>    peter@langstoeger.at writes... }In article <rdeininger-1902032205490001@user-uinj4fa.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:O }>In article <YKT4a.6200$Rb4.92167@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at wrote: 6 }>>In article <DTT6Ces6IIl$@eisner.encompasserve.org>,? }>koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: I }>>>   The combination of the latest kernel and ucxdriver patches seem to K }>>>   have cured it.  Felt so good, I downloaded most of the other patches G }>>>   for 4.3.  Just had to remember to reinstall MULTINET:USER.CLD in J }>>>   DCLTABLES tso that telnet would be Multinet's telnet and not DEC's. }>> O }>>That reminds my of another advantage of TCPware: It uses symbols, not verbs.  }> }>Why is that an advantage?  } ' }Then answer is in the above paragraph. N }eg. One can switch between the IP stacks by reboot instead of reinstallation.M }(Or maybe even by shutting down one stack and start the other one). And then C }switch the utilities by defining (other) symbols or deleting them.  }  }--  }Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER  H That isn't an advantage because switching IP stacks is an abnormal thingE to do (more than once or maybe twice, ever, on any specific system or 	 cluster).   I Why don't you go through your DCLTABLES.EXE and remove everything from it H and define symbols for all of the things in that it? After all, it wouldH be an advantage to do this if you ever want to switch versions of any ofD those programs back and forth. But you don't do it because it is not actually advantageous.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:55:01 +0100 . From: "Jesper Naur" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk>: Subject: Re: Documentation of TNADRIVER SYS$QIO interface.: Message-ID: <3e551566$0$135$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>  . Hoff Hoffman <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message' news:q%V4a.20$7W3.9@news.cpqcorp.net... J > In article <3e53f63d$0$131$edfadb0f@dtext01.news.tele.dk>, "Jesper Naur"" <jesper.naur@post.tele.dk> writes:G >   What are you up to?  (And what are the versions of OpenVMS and IP?)   G I'm up to being able to create TCP/IP terminal devices programmatically G without having to resort to the rather ugly and cumbersome technique of H spawning an auxiliary process, which runs a DCL command procedure (which* runs TELNET CREATE_SESSION to do the job).   Hoff's reply pointed me to  L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6529/6529pro_021.html#tel_func_cod e   D which appears to contain exactly what I need. Many thanks, very much appreciated.       Best regards     Jesper Naur    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:02:42 -0500 * From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.20.17.02.39.412622@nospam.invalid>   5 On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:42:03 +0000, CBFalconer wrote:    > "J. Clarke" wrote:; >> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500, Julian Thomas wrote: ' >> > J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>  >>  I >> > may have used oatmeal boxes, old string, and new, used, and recycled ) >> > electrons to say (at least in part):  >> >G >> >> Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all server D >> >> and workstation class machines can support it if the purchaserH >> >> chooses to put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" andF >> >> consumer machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm usingI >> >> right now has ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and back again"  >> >J >> > These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird that offerJ >> > ECC. Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's not widely >> > available.  >>  C >> Any of the 762 boards will support ECC.  The 761 chipset has the I >> necessary support however vendors seem to not enable it.  Trouble with J >> AMD is that most of the vendors are targetting the consumer market, notJ >> the workstation/server market, and in the consumer market for those whoH >> even know that ECC exists, it is considered to be undesirable becauseH >> there is an infinitesimal performance penalty that might cost a tenth >> of an FPS in Quake. > F > And also the 'saving' of approximately 10% of the memory cost, to beE > repaid many times over the first time something is destroyed by any  > memory failures.  H Sometimes.  But remember, some of these are the folks who run RAID 1 andG shell out 700 bucks for a Vapochill or Prometeia phase-change cooler in ) the hopes of running their P4 at 3.5 GHz.   G > I would almost rather buy day old hamburger that has been kept in the  > sun.   --   --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net # (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:42:03 GMT ' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopol ( Message-ID: <3E550374.9689AEF@yahoo.com>   "J. Clarke" wrote:: > On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500, Julian Thomas wrote:& > > J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> > , > > may have used oatmeal boxes, old string,D > > and new, used, and recycled electrons to say (at least in part): > > F > >> Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all serverC > >> and workstation class machines can support it if the purchaser C > >> chooses to put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" C > >> and consumer machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm B > >> using right now has ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and > >> back again" > > C > > These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird that D > > offer ECC. Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's > > not widely available.  > B > Any of the 762 boards will support ECC.  The 761 chipset has theC > necessary support however vendors seem to not enable it.  Trouble B > with AMD is that most of the vendors are targetting the consumer@ > market, not the workstation/server market, and in the consumerB > market for those who even know that ECC exists, it is consideredA > to be undesirable because there is an infinitesimal performance 5 > penalty that might cost a tenth of an FPS in Quake.   A And also the 'saving' of approximately 10% of the memory cost, to B be repaid many times over the first time something is destroyed by any memory failures.  A I would almost rather buy day old hamburger that has been kept in  the sun.   --  < Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. :    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:01:10 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> ? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup? / Message-ID: <v599rla1u1g7b5@corp.supernews.com>    Steve Spires wrote:  > All, > J > I have a diskless system which boots over the network from another node.J > The backup of this disk is done on the holding node, and a single backupJ > command does all the remote systems locally mounted disks. UnfortunatelyJ > the backup command is just a normal backup [no /IMAGE] and an additionalJ > problem is the the command backs up ALL the disks one after another into > the same saveset [ie $ BACKUP G > DIA1:[000000...]*.*;*,DIA2:[000000...]*.*;*, etc] so even getting the H > files off [luckily it's the first disk in the list] I don't think will > be trivial...  >  > However, some questions. > J > The backup will copy the aliased files [SYS$COMMON, VMS$COMMON etc] intoJ > the saveset doubly, so a restore to this disk will likely fill it beforeH > completion. How can I get around this? And is restoring the ALIAS easy > enough to do?  > & > I guess I'll need to run WRITEBLOCK? > 1 > Can anyone think of anything else I need to do?   E Steve, please rely on the people who are already giving you software   support.  G Believe me, they are *very* competent ;-)  And, oh yeah,  I also agree   with Larry and Hoff.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:56:09 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup? ) Message-ID: <3E54B449.72C5BB26@127.0.0.1>    Steve Spires wrote:  > 0 [sad story of not using BACKUP properly snipped]  # Been there, restored it, booted it.   H This is where I annoy Hoff and Larry. Upgrading is in the "nice to have"E category. This is the answer to the question you've asked, but as you H are already network booting, I suspect your real issue is untangling theF backup saveset. Do a BACKUP/LIST to a file and use that as your guide.  G Assuming you really do need to restore and boot a system disk without a / /IMAGE, there's the procedure, adjust to taste.   E Network boot the station out of the cluster, add it temporarily as an H LAVC node, DO NOT create local page and swap, so do it over the network.B Performance is not your problem here. Alternatives are borrowing a CD-ROM and tape, SAB.   " Log in, and mount the target disk.  E OK. Restore what you can. Aliasing may give you some interesting disk 9 space problems, so what you'll hopefully be left with is:    [SYSn.SYSCOMMON...]   B and an empty [VMS$COMMON...] structure, or if it's not, delete it,9 providing you have the files in the SYSCOMMON tree above.   8 RENAME the [SYSn]SYSCOMMON.DIR to [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR  9 SET FILE/ENTER=[SYSn]SYSCOMMON.DIR [000000]VMS$COMMON.DIR   & This will restore the alias structure.  
 MCR WRITEBOOT   ( You'll locate [VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]VMB.EXE  E You may want to ensure that the [.SYEXE] directory wherever it is has - that image in, that will be the one you want.   ' Shut down and try to boot, should work.   B I expect there will be more tidying up to do, but this will get it going.  E Hoff does make some good points about the /IGNORE=INTERLOCK files, do  make that a consideration.   J > The backup will copy the aliased files [SYS$COMMON, VMS$COMMON etc] intoJ > the saveset doubly, so a restore to this disk will likely fill it beforeH > completion. How can I get around this? And is restoring the ALIAS easy > enough to do?   4 Use BACKUP selectively (as described in this thread)   & > I guess I'll need to run WRITEBLOCK?   Yes as above. (WRITEBOOT)   1 > Can anyone think of anything else I need to do?   E Fix the backup procedures, and make sure that whoever wrote them owes  you a pint :-)  G I will leave the decision as to do a reinstallation up to you, you know G the environment and the client needs. While it may be preferable, it is  not the only way.   8 This is a timely reminder, check your backup scripts...!   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:08:16 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> ? Subject: Re: How do I restore a system from a non-image backup? ? Message-ID: <6b6dc1c74b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   ( In message <3E54B449.72C5BB26@127.0.0.1>3           Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:    > Steve Spires wrote:  > > 2 > [sad story of not using BACKUP properly snipped] > % > Been there, restored it, booted it.  >  <snip helpful reply> > 3 > > Can anyone think of anything else I need to do?  > G > Fix the backup procedures, and make sure that whoever wrote them owes  > you a pint :-) > I > I will leave the decision as to do a reinstallation up to you, you know I > the environment and the client needs. While it may be preferable, it is  > not the only way.  > : > This is a timely reminder, check your backup scripts...! >   J I find myself wondering why you're backing up the system disk of a runningC system, whether /IMAGE or not. As you have seen, it is fraught with  potential problems.   J Under VMS5 and before we used to do BACKUP/IMAGE of system disks while theK system was running, and restored them successfully. from V6 onwards, we got K so many "file locked by abother user" messages we concluded that the backup H wasn't safe. I can't remember whether we actually tested it, or just got careful.  J I suspect you are wanting to backup things that get changed while a systemL is running. I would suggest putting a little effort into moving them off theI system disk, and effectively making the system disk "read only". Then you D only need to back it up after installing software, or upgrading VMS.  I This does work - I had to restore a 2-year-old system disk backup, and it  worked perfectly.    You want to consider moving   I SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM  -  i.e. put one in SYS$MANAGER which runs another on a 5 different disk, after mounting the disk if necessary)   H SYSUAF.DAT, RIGHTSLIST.DAT, NET$UAF.DAT, NET$PROXY.DAT - define logicals0 /SYS/EXEC for these, in the SYLOGICALS.COM file.   ACCOUNTNG.DAT?   The AUDIT database?   K The job control files, QMAN*. Use the manual to find out how to move these,   as I don't remember the details.  C Finally, take a copy of SYSTARTUP.COM, SYLOGICALS.COM, SYLOGIN.COM, G SYCONFIG.COM to a safe place periodically, e.g. just before your backup  runs.   A All this is of course especially useful in a heterogenous cluster G environment, so that you use one common set of the files. With multiple 4 system disks, you HAVE to move a lot of these files.  G I'm sure other people will disagree with some of the details, not least I because its about 9 months since I had my hands on a VMS system, and it's  easy to forget details.    Alan     --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:58:54 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems( Message-ID: <3E53D3EE.44452855@mist.com>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > ( > You can download J2EE for Solaris from > ( > http://java.sun.com/j2ee/download.html > 0 > You can download Sun One Applications Server 7- > for free for development or evaluation from  > E > http://wwws.sun.com/software/products/appsrvr/appsrvr_download.html  > 1 > Sun One Applications Server is a J2EE compliant  > apps server.  $ Thank you.  I'll see how this works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:47:15 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems. Message-ID: <3E54EA73.5030706@nospamn.sun.com>   Andreas Davour wrote: < >>>>>Check out what IBM is sharing with the Linux community.8 >>>>>I think they are the "good guys" in the eyes of the  >>>>>Linux community these days. >>>>   > C > Well, we'll all have to see about what happens, don't we? Arguing @ > about IBM's future plans is fairly meaningless. You read their5 > press release in one way, I read it some other way.  >   F > They have admitted that AIX is no longer their long term comittment, > that was my main point.  >   7 No they havn't that wasn't what the press release said.    > C >>How about listing IBM's contributions to the OpenSource community D >>I can easily list what Sun has donated both in terms of technology? >>and in terms of standards, for sale software like DB2, Tivoli = >>and WebSphere don't count and neither does Linux on zSeries  >>systems either.  >>= >>When you have you will find that its actually a pretty tiny  >>list.  >  > = > I'm afraid it's pretty pointless to have a discussion about @ > this if you repeatedly tell me what counts or not. Can I tell A > you what of your ideas "count" or not? You are behaving pretty   > silly. >   2 No a list would be really usefull because it would% concentrate on facts not perceptions.   1 It would also be usefull to measure that value of ) the donation in terms of its usefullness.   4 As an example the largest single technology donation/ made by IBM to the OpenSource community is JFS.   4 Value of donation to OpenSource Community = Low to 0  4 Why because XFS donated by SGI is a superior product: from a performance standpoint, its over 2x the performance- and ext3 is also faster though less reliable.   , Sun has donated Java, widely used value high" OpenOffice, widely used value high Grid, widely used value high  NetBeans, widely used value high    = > I know that many in the Linux community feels IBM is their  < > benefactor and Sun isn't. Maybe they are wrong, but that's? > what they feel that I have talked to. Sure, none of them uses 4 > GNOME, which I guess is where Sun is most visible. >   * Gnome is our most visible donation ??? Akk  6 How about Java, OpenOffice, Grid, NetBeans, Chillisoft6 Cubic Spline Encryption (for OpenSSL), NFS. There is a' whole list Gnome is pretty far down it.   8 The openSource folks preception is pretty warped if that7 is what they think and IBM have obviously been doing an 5 excellent smoke and mirrors job, but in reality their 7 biggest donation is JFS which isn't widely used because . its inferior to other OpenSource alternatives.  B >>>If Solaris became Free, and not just for free you might get theG >>>same effect. Heck, I did a job once when Ericsson wanted the 'rarpd' G >>>deamon changed. They used Linux instead since the code was open. Not * >>>much we from Sun could offer instead... >>; >>There is no reason at all why Ericsson couldn't have used 6 >>the Solaris source and changed the rarpd deamon. The@ >>limitation is in the re-distribution or re-sale of the changedA >>rarpd which under the terms of the Sun Community Source License @ >>would have to be re-submitted back to Sun for inclusion in the> >>next Solaris release assuming that Sun felt the changes were
 >>usefull. >  > A > Maybe, but somewhow they didn't like the conditions. They never  > told me what the problem was.  >     3 Maybe they wern't aware that they could get Solaris 2 source under the Solaris Community Source License.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:00:45 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy N Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market, Message-ID: <3E53B83D.20005@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E5253BD.8000102@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > G >>>        2 or 3 more rounds of Itanium to turn the tables.  Here is a " >>>        hint of things to come: >>> 6 >>>http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0107sgirelea.html >>> N >>>The entry-level Altix 3300 server starts at US$70,176 in the U.S. with four' >>>processors and 32G bytes of memory.   >>> " >>>        That is a sweet spot.   >>> P >>>        Now we can dig about and have a good pissy back and forth on pricing. >>>tP >>>        Here is IBM, one of their latest, we see that they list 64 GBytes of - >>>        RAM for a high-end box at $241000:I >>>y >>H >>Seems a lot we list 64 GB of RAM for any of the larger Sun Fire server/ >>up to and including the F15K for 96K dollars.  >> >  > D > 	That's good.  IBM is obviously taking a different approach.  TheyI > 	are using memory to subsidize their CPU prices.  Sun isn't subsidizingn9 > 	their CPU prices, they just charge a boatload per CPU:T > Q > http://www.tpc.org/results/individual_results/Sun/sun.fire15K.3tb.021003.es.pdfo > 1 > 	$2.9 million for 72 CPUs and 288 GByte memory.i >yD > 	Now granted, that's a bit stale.  But Sun has no version 2.0 tpmH? > 	numbers and it is quite difficult (more and more so) to findmA > 	public numbers.  Of course you can go out to Sun and find liste> > 	prices, but it is tricky to reverse engineer those numbers.B > 	A quick take shows 96 GByte additional memory and 20 additionalH > 	CPUs has the E15K system cost go from $1.25 million to $1.89 million.E > 	So it seems Sun CPU prices are coming down to around $25000 or so.y >   @ Its also rather a strange analysis. The F15K has fully redundant< backplane, hot pluggable CPU's, memory and I/O. All of which; require engineering and have to be factored into the systemt costs.  : If you want a better Idea of UltraSPARC CPU costs then try< using a server which uses the same modules but which doesn't0 have so much infrastructure packaging the CPU's.  > The Sun V480 with 8 GB of RAM and 4 CPU's costs 43,995 dollars or ~11K per CPU.  : Incedentally based on HP's own pricing the rx5670 which is? simlar to a 480 comes in at 23K per CPU (Itanium). Which rathero ruins your argument.   > A >>Incedentally don't get too excited about the Altix it may spoild> >>the HP party after all if your claims about Itanium are true> >>then the Altix is faster than a 64 way SuperDome and HP wantE >>rather more than 3 million for a 64 way Dome and no one is going too= >>be happy in the HP camp if thy have to kiss over half their % >>revenue away by going with itanium.5 >  > @ > 	But you are highlighting the obvious.  High-end server prices? > 	must come down.  If the most expensive Itanium is $4000 fromdB > 	Intel, it is hard to justify turning around and charging $25000A > 	for that same CPU.  Especially as it approaches commodity and B* > 	7 or more OEMs are selling it in a box. >   9 But you are only talking about the cost of the CPU itselfo7 and not the cost of the system. Itanium CPU's cost 400057 but then you need an enclosure, systemboard, disks, PCIa cards and enclosure etc.  4 Just as a comparative datapoint this 4000 dollar CPU3 when configured into a 4 way HP rx5670 with 8 GB ofy3 RAM according to HP's web pricing tool costs 94,637p5 dollars or 23K per CPU. According to HP's web pricing55 the CPU's are 8K each. Not far off what the price for 5 the CPU and 1/4 of the package price in the Sun V480.   . And of course once you are outside the 4-8 way0 space you are then into big redundant backplanes2 where none of the Intel economies of scale if they exist at all apply.n     > / > 	YES!  High-end server prices must come down.n >   1 Why not start at the low end, 94K is rather a lotm for a 4 way itanium box.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:49:30 GMTo0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyp0 Message-ID: <3e510401.136139085@news.eircom.net>  3 On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:01:11 +0000, Andrew Harrisone  <andrew.harrison@sun.com> wrote:  : >Humm. not entirely true, you can run that non-proprietary5 >Office product from Microsoft on Sun's. Just get thee
 >SunPCi card.e  F I will suggest that if you're going to buy a PC, you might as well buy( one in a mini tower case as on a card :)  7 >StarOffice is hardly proprietary either, its availableI8 >in OpenSource form as OpenOffice and its file specs are7 >XML and publically available for developers. Radicallyo >different from MS-Office.  D That is true, and the file specs part in particular is a significant4 advantage, and all due credit to Sun for doing that.  C However, I wasn't saying Star Office is more closed and proprietary C than Microsoft Office (indeed it isn't), I was saying Sun boxes aree% more closed and proprietary than PCs.e   -- e3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."N+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceL   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:52:04 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)kQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyo- Message-ID: <b32fh4$oqc$1@shell.monmouth.com>e  G In article <b301vq$fcv$3@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:e >JA >Oh, yeah.  I'm not a guy and, although I've met some Unixes and ]: >VMSes, they did not service my computing needs very well. >. >S >/BAHa    E Compared to Windows < 2000 or Windows < XP they service it just fine.-< Believe me Barb, you'll take either of those over Windows9x.  H An old Sparc2 SunOS machine (about 486 to early Pentium speed) which wasG getting trashed at Lucent 5 years ago is still more reliable and stablee  than  Win3.1, Win9.x, and WinME.  F I know how you miss the old TOPS10 timeshare days... but I'll now takeH ANY recent Linux, *BSD, and even any 8 year old Unix software and run itH gladly just to have a machine that can go 1 month between boots -- not 1 day...  C Windows2000 now meets that requirement.  NT kind of came close withbC Service Pack 4 or later -- but the need to reboot every time the IPB+ configs were changed was a royal pain in...a   Bill   -- AM +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+eM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |hM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |tN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+s   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:13:49 GMT. From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly0+ Message-ID: <b32fop$150$3@bob.news.rcn.net>:  / In article <3E53E61C.6FF8B8EB@vl.videotron.ca>, 4    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:t5 >> I don't know about Unix geeks; I've never met one.e >_: >Back in the 80s, there was this Unix guru at university.  >He no longer spokekF >english. He spoke acronyms and unix commands. Turned out to be a very >respected Unix Guru in town.t  ? <grin>  That's the way a conversation with JMF and TW would go.    >c6 >Then, at DECUS, there was this true Unix Geek (sorry  >his name escapes me) whoiG >dressed up for an African safari. He too was extremely well respected.t  = Well, the dress was appropriate.  Going to a DECUS was rather-: like traveling through a jungle hoping I wouldn't get bit.   > H >Nothing like the current crop of people who consider themselves experts; >because they unpacked Linux onto their 8086 home computer.l  @ Yup.  And they declare the OS bad because it doesn't immediately flash that pretty blue at them.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:22:06 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <b32g8a$150$5@bob.news.rcn.net>g  0 In article <3e53cf8c.319345846@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:G >On 19 Feb 2003 07:40:42 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.orge >(Bob Koehler) wrote:i >nG >>   The binaries, no.  But in the early days of WNT you could say thata, >>   for Pentium, Alpha, MIPS, ... binaries. >-D >Yep. That's why nobody bought the Alpha or MIPS versions of Windows >NT.  @ You really need to brush up on the history.  Gates pulled the NT funding for the Alphas.@ /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.e   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2003 18:30:54 GMT( From: stanb45@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyc= Message-ID: <slrnb5719k.nli.stanb45@citadel.metropolis.local>y  P On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 00:13:52 +0100, Morten Reistad <mrrz@reistad.priv.no> wrote: >dE >Or bring with you an old pulse-signalling phone from the countrysidew1 >into the city of Oslo? (or, similar UK-> London)a  O Strangely enough, although here in the UK we've been tone-dialling for decades sK I tried pulse dialing the other day by tapping on the "hook" switch and it eM worked perfectly.  Why was I trying it??  Because I thought an old-fashioned eC dial phone would look cool in my den and I wanted to see if I could@ actually use it!   --   Cheers,t( Stan Barr         stanb45@dial.pipex.com( **Remove the digits from email address**   The future was never like this!i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:45:39 -0000i2 From: "Helmut P. Einfalt" <hp.einfalt@t-online.de>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolym/ Message-ID: <b30jdu$ai3$05$1@news.t-online.com>l  C >Strangely enough, although here in the UK we've been tone-dialling,; >for decades I tried pulse dialing the other day by tappingi. >on the "hook" switch and it worked perfectly.  F Yup, same over here in Germany and Austria -- as long as you're not on an ISDN line, that is.  : >Why was I trying it??  Because I thought an old-fashioned% >dial phone would look cool in my den   A I managed to save a couple from the dumpster (heavy bakelite 1937hE model) a decade ago and I've had them working in various environments E in both Austria and Germany. Except the hook-up cable, nothing had tom be changed.s  ) And the way they ring! The way they ring!h< (The old Austrian beasts in fact have a couple of bells that& adjustable to give different rings...)   Helmut   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:52:23 GMT-0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly:0 Message-ID: <3e53d1b3.319896820@news.eircom.net>  8 On Wed, 19 Feb 03 13:06:36 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  : >I was known as the den mother of TOPS-10.  I worked with : >two guys who were known as The TOPS-10 gurus, JMF and TW.   Cool.o  4 >TW's definition of a Real Computer was based on its< >price, namely, "You can tell the difference between the men; >and the boys by the price of their toys."  Given that this$9 >was a generic statement and not sexist, I worked on realb >computers.  Yours is wimpy.  E Mmm, didn't a VAX 6230 cost a fair chunk of change back in the 1980s?iD But certainly since I finished college I haven't worked on a machine) with a price tag longer than four digits.s   -- w3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."o+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.a! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaces   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:47:55 +0000d' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyhQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly . Message-ID: <3E54CE7B.3030000@nospamn.sun.com>   Shane Smith wrote:H > Ah, this is a good day. I get to lay the smack down on Andrew! :-) TheD > Spectrum didn't have a rampack, that was the ZX81. 1K as standard,J > metallic membrane keyboard. The Speccy had 16K or 32K as standard, and aJ > dead flesh keyboard. In my case, microdrives instead of a tape recorder, > too. >    You are right.   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 20 Feb 03 12:30:08 GMTh From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh+ Message-ID: <b32k7s$d34$5@bob.news.rcn.net>   - In article <b32fh4$oqc$1@shell.monmouth.com>,-;    pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) wrote: H >In article <b301vq$fcv$3@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: >>B >>Oh, yeah.  I'm not a guy and, although I've met some Unixes and ; >>VMSes, they did not service my computing needs very well.@  F >Compared to Windows < 2000 or Windows < XP they service it just fine.  
 Of course.  = >Believe me Barb, you'll take either of those over Windows9x.s  = I'll have you know that I'm still at 3.1 on this system and I.= don't even have windows installed on my other desktop system.w9 I know I'll go to the Unix route someday.  I've got a fewr; things that I need to concentrate on before I get engrossedo in learning another OS.r >tI >An old Sparc2 SunOS machine (about 486 to early Pentium speed) which wasnH >getting trashed at Lucent 5 years ago is still more reliable and stable! >than  Win3.1, Win9.x, and WinME.r  C I got curious about NT two? (can't remember) years ago so I visited B CompUSA to check it out.  Here's the sound scenario:  click, clickE [swear elided] (that's because of the fucking User Device From Hell),aD click, oooh, that's interesting, let's try, click, crash, motherfuck- it can't survive 5 mintues of the den mother?o  @ Then another customer who viewed himself as a computer expert ofA some flavor came near.  He stated that I couldn't have caused theV? crash because NT was robust.  I got very amused.  It's the ones = who don't know any better who are the best testers (a fact he . still needed to learn to succeed in this biz).   /BAH    >wG >I know how you miss the old TOPS10 timeshare days... but I'll now takegI >ANY recent Linux, *BSD, and even any 8 year old Unix software and run it9I >gladly just to have a machine that can go 1 month between boots -- not 1o >day...  >nD >Windows2000 now meets that requirement.  NT kind of came close withD >Service Pack 4 or later -- but the need to reboot every time the IP, >configs were changed was a royal pain in... >v >BillB >K  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:01:41 +0000l' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly . Message-ID: <3E511575.6050205@nospamn.sun.com>   Russell Wallace wrote:G > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:30:16 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyl0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >>Russell Wallace wrote: >> >>E >>>Sure, I wasn't calling them villains. I was simply noting that thesD >>>reason their computers are unable to run most software is because7 >>>they're nonstandard. That's just the way things are.o >>" >>How do you define most software. >  > G > I mean if you made a list of all the programs available on commercialaG > sale and for each one asked whether it runs on Solaris, in fewer thana' > 50% of cases would the answer be yes.  >   1 Again it depends. Desktop applications I am  sureh you are correct.  4 Server side applications and you arn't. The majority2 of Sun's business comes from servers and we have a3 very very strong ISV portfolio in the server arena.c   > 6 >>Solaris has the biggest supported software portfolio5 >>after Win32 and way way ahead of HP-UX, AIX, Tru64,-> >>OS400, zOS, OpenVMS, Linux x86, HP-UX/Itanium, Win64/Itanium: >>OpenVMS/Itanium(0) in that order. For example even using@ >>double counting Solaris 8 has more apps that AIX 4.3.3/5.1/5.2D >>combined. By double counting I mean Oracle 9i on AIX 4.3.3/5.1/5.2 >>counts as 3 apps.. >  > @ > (Nitpick - Oracle isn't an application, it's system software.) >   8 Well replace that with Oracle Applications instead then.   Regardsy Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:37:34 -0500T* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.20.13.37.33.184116@nospam.invalid>   8 On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500, Julian Thomas wrote:  3 > In <b2tin311p3s@enews2.newsguy.com>, on 02/18/03 a5 >    at 10:15 AM, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> r* > may have used oatmeal boxes, old string,B > and new, used, and recycled electrons to say (at least in part): > H >>Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all server and H >>workstation class machines can support it if the purchaser chooses to C >>put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" and consumer  H >>machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm using right now has 7 >>ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and back again"  > M > These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird that offer ECC. mB > Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's not widely > available.  @ Any of the 762 boards will support ECC.  The 761 chipset has theJ necessary support however vendors seem to not enable it.  Trouble with AMDG is that most of the vendors are targetting the consumer market, not the>H workstation/server market, and in the consumer market for those who evenI know that ECC exists, it is considered to be undesirable because there isiP an infinitesimal performance penalty that might cost a tenth of an FPS in Quake.    > --4 >  Julian Thomas: jt . jt-mj @ net  http://jt-mj.net0 >  remove letter a for email (or switch . and @)@ >  In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State!8 >  Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc  > http://www.possi.org >  -- --< >  Headline: Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery.   -- v --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot netw# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)c   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 13:53:33 +0100- From: Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>nQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly * Message-ID: <m3adgvjcfm.fsf@elgin.eder.de>  7 Brooks Moses <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu> writes:e  I > You know, my Windows machine seems to get rebooted about twice a month, I > almost always because I've turned it off to muck with the hardware, but 8 > sometimes for software installations or power outages.  E Why would you reboot a machine for software installations? I've neveru understood that.    D > My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of theI > problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the competence-H > of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any other9 > OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.a  ! There certainly is truth in that!M   > All it would= > take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as  > root"....   E But there almost never is reason to install an app as root. Even if aa@ few need to have root rights, there is always the possibility to install them in chroot jails.c   'Andreas -- s+ Wherever I lay my .emacs, theres my $HOME.P   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:35:48 +0000 (UTC)s8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyc. Message-ID: <b32skk$1daq$3@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  - In article <b2vtuq$8qo$1@shell.monmouth.com>, 8 Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:H >In article <b2voic$s9k$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:  F >This explains the talking on the cell phone while running over peopleA >phenomena... They're calling tech support to learn how to drive.e  C Yikes.  I've found it *much* easier to run people over when I'm not - trying to do something else at the same time.e  D hawk, now facing life without a pedestrian sight on the hood for the first time in 15 years.r   -- wK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignhG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailfD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:28:54 +0000 (UTC) 8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyn. Message-ID: <b32s7m$1daq$2@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  / In article <3e4fbf89.53062679@news.eircom.net>,!1 Russell Wallace <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote:   C >Yep! The current bout of Microsoft versus this, that and the other B >reminds me of my school days when I had a Commodore 64 like everyC >right-thinking person, and we used to insult the accursed Spectrume
 >owners :)  H Yeah, the days when kids with a C64 thought they actually had a computer were indeed amusing . . .    :)  7 hawk, who had already had computational needs back thens -- tK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaigniG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML maileD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:48:43 +0000 (UTC) 8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly$. Message-ID: <b32tcr$1daq$4@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  0 In article <3e510275.135742199@news.eircom.net>,1 Russell Wallace <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote: G >On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>C >wrote:   & >>You do know about X Windows, do you?  F >Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butE >last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the sameyB >operating system let alone be compatible with different operating	 >systems.-  G For nearly ten years, I've been using it to work on my desktop from themC other side of the country while on vacation.  This includes running @ netscape and mosaic browsers on systems nearly 2,000 miles away.   I've also used it in anyA number of cross-os applications, including macbsd, linux, ultrix,nF <insert dec's flavor of the week here>, freebsd, solaris, macos 7, and assorted windows.h   hawk -- vK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignrG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailaD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:04:54 +0000 (UTC)o8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr. Message-ID: <b32ub6$1daq$5@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  . In article <3E521C74.1020107@nospamn.sun.com>,C Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:v  B >In a move reminiscent of the early UNIX days smaller Linux distro@ >vendors are now ganging up against the dominant Linux (RedHat). ....  ; >Sounds rather like all the smaller UNIX vendors ganging upe= >against Sun and AT&T to form OSF. (lets call it a foundationM >it makes it sound better).D  , Foundation?  Isn't it "Oppose Sun Forever"?    :)   hawk --  K Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignSG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailoD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:11:35 +0000 (UTC)a8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyM. Message-ID: <b32unn$1daq$7@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  6 In article <b2rgin$1frfug$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: 0 >In article <3e4fc740.55037260@news.eircom.net>,4 >	rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:  I >> Maybe. Though I doubt they'd have stood up to Apple's attempt to get a I >> legally enforced monopoly on graphic user interfaces the way Microsofta6 >> did. (And compared to Apple, Microsoft are saints.)  E >Read the history again.  If Apple had succeeded Xerox was sitting inkH >the wings waiting to use the exact same legal argument to squash Apple.F >Apple was in a loose-loose situation and settled as the only solution/ >that didn't have disaster written all over it.r  F This thing has been overstated in so many ways that it it bears little resemblance to reality :)e  F Apple didn't claim all GUI; they claimed protection on one that workedE the way theirs did.  Apple *had* rights from Xerox, but that probablymA didn't matter, as the Mac and Xerox interfaces had very little inrH common.  On top of that, the Lisa interface *predates* the Xeorox visit;! they already had mockups of it.     G Oh, dear.  It used to be at  http://home.san.rr.com/deans/lisagui.html,n but it's gone :(  E >> I disagree, I think it is. Or would you rather go back to the daysnD >> when anytime you saw a program you'd like to buy, 80% of the timeH >> you'd have to forget about it because it was for a machine you didn't >> own?l >eA >You spent too much time with that Commodore 64.  You should have @ >had a real computer instead.  There were lot's of them and theyA >were standards based, shared hardware, ran the OSes and even theu7 >same applications although most users wrote their own.o >e >billg >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvessE >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.o >University of Scranton   |sB >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>        -- aK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaigntG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mail,D These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:09:01 +0000 (UTC)y8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyd. Message-ID: <b32uit$1daq$6@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  0 In article <3e523fbb.216977105@news.eircom.net>,1 Russell Wallace <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote:AG >On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:49:08 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>f >wrote:y  C >>I regularly sit at a Windows box and run X applications that are oJ >>resident on a BSD or Linux box.  Whatever you heard you must have heard  >>a very long time ago.   D >And will the same binaries run resident on any of the three boxes?   C Uhh, yes.  Well, almost.  Windows won't run either hte bsd or linuxRD binaries, and linux won't run the bsd binaries, but bsd will run all three,  1 But so what?  That's what compilers are for . . .s   >DocD >the same keyboard shortcuts work on all the different applications?  C Generally, yes.  And if they don't, you just use the same .whatevero file.t  E OK, keeping the keystrokes consistant with MS is rather difficult, assH they change every release.  <cmd>-K or ^K deleted cells in every versionC of Excel from 1.0 until about a year ago, when it suddenly meant to @ insert a web link in the middle of a spreadsheet, for example.      . >Can you reliably copy and paste between them?  A Generally, unless you hit one of those windows weirdness, such asmC pasting a simple graph from excel to word, which creates a one-pagerE document to large to fit on a floppy unless you know how to use pasteU
 special . . .    hawk --  K Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaignaG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailfD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:08:01 GMT'0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyl0 Message-ID: <3e550aee.400095011@news.eircom.net>  8 On Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:22:06 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  A >You really need to brush up on the history.  Gates pulled the NTs >funding for the Alphas.  B Nevermind the history, I remember reading the announcements at theF time it happened. The two companies had a conversation along the lines of:   - "Hey, nobody's buying NT on Alpha, are they?"uF "No, no they're not. So we don't want to pay for maintaining a product nobody's buying."e* "Well we don't want to pay for it either."C "Oh well, guess we'd better announce it's being discontinued then."i   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply.i! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:32:50 GMT>. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyy3 Message-ID: <6j85a.16292$Rb4.211939@news.chello.at>t  c In article <3e550aee.400095011@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes: 9 >On Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:22:06 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:.B >>You really need to brush up on the history.  Gates pulled the NT >>funding for the Alphas.  >oC >Nevermind the history, I remember reading the announcements at thesG >time it happened. The two companies had a conversation along the lines  >of: >i. >"Hey, nobody's buying NT on Alpha, are they?"G >"No, no they're not. So we don't want to pay for maintaining a producto >nobody's buying."+ >"Well we don't want to pay for it either."oD >"Oh well, guess we'd better announce it's being discontinued then."   Strangee  H I read it as: Q bought DEC and wanted to reduce costs and saw DEC payingH to M$ for the NT Alpha big money (eg. a development department near M$).E Q wanted to save the money and let M$ pay for their own product (NT).uG At least for Win32 (Q obviously wanted Win64 to be seen differently andsD eventually even paying for it). But M$ was quite angry of loosing anE organ donor (DEC) and did its revenge ONE DAY LATER by stopping _all_NI M$ products for Alpha (which OTOH did make their own developers includingiC Dave Cutler really desperate and angry because they had almost only G Alphas for their Win64 - one source said they had about thousand alphas 5 and only one Itanic-1 but it might be a rumour also).l  G The net effect was that we lost one excuse for buying Alphas ("it couldiG run NT in the future, but currently we run OpenVMS on it"), Q lost moreiH customers and money (it was more money lost by losing customers than theI NT Alpha abort saved) and M$ still have no Win64 on the market (and begunsI to replace Win32) because there is still no viable 64bit chip/system fromr Intel in M$ (and our) eyes...d   YMMV   -- T Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe% Network and OpenVMS system specialisto E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:40:04 -0700- From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.caQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyl) Message-ID: <3E5512F4.30609@jetnet.ab.ca>n   Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:sG   RC> > 	This beastie seems to have a couple of PCI busses, an AGP bus,aG > RC> > several USB busses and several I2C busses. There's a DSP on the L > RC> > soundcard, and a couple of specialised processors on the video card,I > RC> > the hard disc interface isn't entirely dumb and even the parallelrJ > RC> > port has DMA, the TV capture card has an on board RISC for its DMA > RC> > controller and ..H# > 	If it plays records it needs to.R    G Records sound better useing a valve amp, and I don't expect there to be-I a nice fat tube pre amp off the audio D/A on that computer. If you think 2E about it, had the AMIGA been marked better towards user software than:5 just games the better box would still be around. Ben.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:59:17 -0500/2 From: "Christopher McNabb" <cmcnabb@n0sp4m.vt.edu>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyp: Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.20.17.59.16.296822@n0sp4m.vt.edu>  3 On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:40:04 +0000, bfranchu wrote:u > I > Records sound better useing a valve amp, and I don't expect there to beM> > a nice fat tube pre amp off the audio D/A on that computer.   E I've got one on mine.  It uses the Sovtek 6922 Dual Triode tube as ans; audio pre-amp.  Here's the link to the Manufacturer's page:   1 http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:58:03 -0500e* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyT; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.20.17.58.00.233634@nospam.invalid>.  3 On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:40:04 -0700, bfranchu wrote:C   > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: I >   RC> > 	This beastie seems to have a couple of PCI busses, an AGP bus,mH >> RC> > several USB busses and several I2C busses. There's a DSP on theG >> RC> > soundcard, and a couple of specialised processors on the videosG >> card, RC> > the hard disc interface isn't entirely dumb and even theeH >> parallel RC> > port has DMA, the TV capture card has an on board RISC& >> for its DMA RC> > controller and ..$ >> 	If it plays records it needs to. >  > I > Records sound better useing a valve amp, and I don't expect there to beh= > a nice fat tube pre amp off the audio D/A on that computer.I   Don't be _too_ sure about that.n3 <http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm>    > If you thinkG > about it, had the AMIGA been marked better towards user software thana7 > just games the better box would still be around. Ben.    -- n --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net'# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:26:32 +0100 , From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopoli7 Message-ID: <20030220072632.7f1699d5.steveo@eircom.net>u   On 20 Feb 2003 04:47:11 GMTA rmk@rmkhome.com wrote:  D RC> In alt.folklore.computers Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>
 RC> wrote: RC> E RC> > 	This beastie seems to have a couple of PCI busses, an AGP bus, E RC> > several USB busses and several I2C busses. There's a DSP on thegJ RC> > soundcard, and a couple of specialised processors on the video card,G RC> > the hard disc interface isn't entirely dumb and even the parallel H RC> > port has DMA, the TV capture card has an on board RISC for its DMA RC> > controller and ... RC> ; RC> > 	Looks like multiple busses and coprocessors to me :)i RC> I RC> Where's the AIO processor and buss to handle the serial terminals? If'  @ 	Optional extra easily available - I have no need to drive largeF numbers of serial ports but if I did I would have options of attachingB an intelligent multiport serial card to a PCI bus or to a SCSI busB (which is an optional extra I haven't got the chip installed for).= I could also hang USB<->RS232 converters on those USB busses,.F alternatively I could hang terminal concentrators on the ethernet that I forgot to mention :)  > 	It was no bother running 32 RS232 connections off a 486/66 so; a modern PC should be fine for several hundred connections.   J RC> it is an IDE disk interface it is dumb. I watch TV on a television and  4 	It's an ATA100 RAID controller - not quite so dumb.  E RC> listen to music on a stereo system that cost far more than an IBMo
 RC> clone.  ! 	If it plays records it needs to.,  H RC> > 	It does a fair job of emulating the old AT clones, but modern PCs0 RC> > aren't really much like AT clones anymore. RC> @ RC> They will still boot MSDOS 2.0. The IBM PC was designed as a  > 	Yes, it does a fair job of emulating ... I didn't mention theH ISA bus on my box because it is entirely contained (including everything" plugged into it) in a single chip.  C RC> single-user general purpose computer. The latest incarnation issF RC> primarily designed as a single-user entertainment cent. That's the RC> difference.a  < 	That is indeed the primary design, but to do it they had toB get quite a lot of things rather more right than the original did.   -- aD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:18:28 +0000 (UTC)r8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopola. Message-ID: <b32v4k$1daq$8@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  7 In article <20030219075444.097ce2a0.steveo@eircom.net>,c. Steve O'Hara-Smith  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:! >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:53:19 GMT 2 >rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:  0 >RW> >Ever try to use a US appliance in England?  A >	Yes! I recall the mess of an early Toshiba laptop that objectedoF >to being plugged in after a trip across the pond and back, the littleJ >selector was still set to 110 and the PSU did not survive the experience.  C Remember the original TRS-80?  It had three connectors on the back:y Power, video out, and cassette.i  E I knew an engineer who hadn't used his in forever; it just controlled)G some ham gear.  He reached behind it to plug the connectors in, and gota them right on the first try.  D Or so it seemed.  It never occurred to him that *anyone* would be so7 stupid as to use the same connector for all three . . .y   hawk -- sK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaign G dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML maildD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:53:12 +0100-, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopola7 Message-ID: <20030220165312.0314519d.steveo@eircom.net>    On Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:22:06 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  4 JC> In article <3e53cf8c.319345846@news.eircom.net>,8 JC>    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:# JC> >On 19 Feb 2003 07:40:42 -0600,3@ JC> >koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org(Bob Koehler) wrote: JC> >iF JC> >>   The binaries, no.  But in the early days of WNT you could say4 JC> >that>   for Pentium, Alpha, MIPS, ... binaries. JC> >vH JC> >Yep. That's why nobody bought the Alpha or MIPS versions of Windows JC> >NT. JC> D JC> You really need to brush up on the history.  Gates pulled the NT JC> funding for the Alphas.s  ; 	Yep at the time I was working for a large and Intel hatingsF organisation (perhaps that's too strong but Intel is/was a competitor)D where a 'new standard desktop' rollout was being planned based on NTB on Alpha (the previous standard was the Mac). The spec was in lateH draft stages when the axe dropped on NT for Alpha - that outfit wanted a lot of machines too.  : 	They wound up with NT on Intel as the only viable option,E because of the large amounts of MS Office junk that nothing else eveneI claimed to read properly at the time (StarOffice was very young and stillvH belonged to StarDivision). The team that drew up the spec would all haveH preferred a UNIX based option but there was no way to put one together. G They even had the first draft rejected and were told to come up with ana+ alternative to NT/Intel and couldn't do it.e   -- 2D C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:38:14 +0100o, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopol.7 Message-ID: <20030220183814.4d23a8e6.steveo@eircom.net>r  ( On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:18:28 +0000 (UTC)9 hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote:   I DREH> Remember the original TRS-80?  It had three connectors on the back:-% DREH> Power, video out, and cassette.   = 	Very well - one of the first in the UK was my third computerRI experience (after an 1130 and an Eclipse). My first comment was somethinge- like "Neat keyboard, where's the computer ?".p  J DREH> Or so it seemed.  It never occurred to him that *anyone* would be so= DREH> stupid as to use the same connector for all three . . .i  : 	Then there was the original Sinclair Pocket TV. The mainsG adaptor was an optional extra but there was a lead supplied (presumablyeF so that you could connect your own suitable supply), the lead had someB little plug at one end and bare wires at the other. When I visitedB Thandar (they caught the service contract for these along with theH Sinclair Instrument business) I was shown some remnants where people hadC connected a mains plug to the bare wires (no doubt grumbling at thedC stinginess in not supplying a molded lead) and plugged the set into-# the 240V. Definitely beyond repair!e   -- eD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:52:51 -0500nA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>aP Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly. Message-ID: <3e54ddb4$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K VWS shipped on V4.x systems.  When the VAXstation 2000 was current, VWS was D shipping on V4.7, and I believe that it was the first version with aH programming interface.  At that time, X10 (which we had money and peopleI doing as a research project at MIT) was in use on Ultrix as an experiment K *on VAX*, and they had some other interface (that I can't remember the nameiH of) they developed in house.  Neither X10 or VWS was really what I wouldG call similar.  Nor was either one really similar to the other older one H (again, which I can't remember the name of) that hooked up to a VAX 780.  L In September 1986, Roger Heinen issued the "Heald Pond" memo which sought toD unify the company strategy around windowing systems.  It was heavilyD influenced by Scott McGregor who had come to us from Microsoft.  TheF decision was to end active VWS development, and to pursue the use of aH to-be-developed next version of the X Window System (X11).  It was to beD used as the low-level, network transparent interface to the graphicsG hardware, on top of that was to be put MS Windows.  Of course, MS nevere> agreed to it, XUI was developed instead, and eventually Motif.  J So.  VWS had been shipping for a long time.  X10 (which anyone who used itG won't fondly recall) was in use on Ultrix.  X11 was developed after thewJ decision was made to make it the DEC company standard.  DEC funded a largeC portion of the MIT work, but I believe X10 also ran on some non-DEC-C platform.  X11 was targeted to "run on pretty much any toaster withrE intellegence" - which explains some early decisions (like the lack ofi floating point).    = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagep) news:3E53E73A.F947F263@vl.videotron.ca...h > Bob Koehler wrote:J > >    VWS shipped with VMS 5.0 on the VAXstation 2000.  It was similar to thet= > >    software on the VAXstation 100 and to MIT X10 windows.h >pF > So at the time VWS shipped, X windows was already available on other platforms ?s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 08:28:16 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) P Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly3 Message-ID: <B966SKQo8G1m@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  b In article <3E53E73A.F947F263@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:M >>    VWS shipped with VMS 5.0 on the VAXstation 2000.  It was similar to thet< >>    software on the VAXstation 100 and to MIT X10 windows. > R > So at the time VWS shipped, X windows was already available on other platforms ?  D   X10 was a far, far thing from X11.  We had a system from a company= that didn't live very long.  They tried getting into the UNIX D workstation market by throwing a BSD UNIX and X10 windows on a 68000: plugged into a Qbus with a too-small disk and a QIC drive.  ' (too small := noroom for the man pages)l  2   We blessedly replaced it with a VAXstation 2000.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:42:06 -0500e; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>P0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix$ Message-ID: <3e55217e$1@news.si.com>  G >We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process ono >VMS to handle the file. >sC >We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMSlA >using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatcF >activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.  H One approach would be to create a LAT port (say LTA6666) and spool it toI SYS$BATCH.  Then, on your PC have a text file called, say, VMSCOMMAND.COM.J containing the command you wish executed.  After FTPing the main file, FTP" this command procedure, like this:   FTP> put mainfile.dat 	 FTP> text   FTP> put vmscommand.com lta6666:  C This will place VMSCOMMAND.COM in SYS$BATCH, where it will execute.  -- tI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot com,5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.a@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-199108        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:44:49 -0500n; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>u0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix$ Message-ID: <3e552221$1@news.si.com>  1 Oops.  Make that FTP command "ASCII", not "TEXT".U -- sI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comv5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM..@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991 8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:27:23 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingr0 Message-ID: <3e550f7d.401263160@news.eircom.net>  , On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:03:03 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  E >Come here for just a week when it is -25 all day, and you'll come to G >appreciate Aussie summer, the ability to step outside withoutr fear ofdL >freezing, the ability to even think about going for a swim in the ocean ... >need I go on ?.  : Look on the bright side, at least Canada has warm summers!  E Some years ago I was over there for holidays. (Beautiful country btw,f? highly recommended for a visit.) It was the first time I'd beenrB actually warm (as opposed to just not cold) outdoors in maybe fiveF years. The newspapers had articles complaining about the heat wave and drought.  C Naturally, 24 hours after I stepped off the plane, the rain started F coming down in buckets. I ought to get Canadian farmers to bribe me to# spend every summer holiday there :)5   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."'+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacel   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:29:06 -0800 (PST)-. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>G Subject: Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software)d@ Message-ID: <20030220132906.63708.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Dear Sirs2  ? We have at the company an old VAX 6520 with PSI X.25 installed.-B The problem is, there is just one group of users - library - which0 connect to other libraries worldwide using X.25.  < Is there a way to  substitute a whole VAX + PSI by a router H - I am imagining any DNPG hardware. The acess must be inbound x outbound     RegardsC   FC C     =====b ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/k   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:15:16 GMTd# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> K Subject: Re: Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software)7H Message-ID: <8i65a.23508$UXa.17628@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20030220132906.63708.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com... > Dear Sirst >/A > We have at the company an old VAX 6520 with PSI X.25 installed.tD > The problem is, there is just one group of users - library - which2 > connect to other libraries worldwide using X.25. >t= > Is there a way to  substitute a whole VAX + PSI by a routerjA > - I am imagining any DNPG hardware. The acess must be inbound x  outbound >      google - "x.25" +routern   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:02:05 GMTS. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)K Subject: Re: Migrating from PSI X-25 to another product (hardware/software) 3 Message-ID: <1_65a.14939$Rb4.192871@news.chello.at>j  q In article <20030220132906.63708.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:d@ >We have at the company an old VAX 6520 with PSI X.25 installed.C >The problem is, there is just one group of users - library - whichj1 >connect to other libraries worldwide using X.25.e >i= >Is there a way to  substitute a whole VAX + PSI by a router eI >- I am imagining any DNPG hardware. The acess must be inbound x outbounde  F Yes, there is (or better was). And it was the main reason to switch toI DECnet PhaseV (then called DECnet-VAX Extensions V5.4 at VMS V5.4 times).tL The DECnis (we had a 500 and a 600) as the multiprotocol router (for DECnet,K TCP/IP and others, and connected X.25 over a V.35 or V.36/RS449 or X.21 ...hK line and serving X.25 to the VMS hosts via the GAP Gateway Access Protocol)y  H X.25 on VAX/VMS required a P.S.I. license, while DECnet-OSI included GAPK for free (only on VAX). So. the older VAX with the built-in serial line waseJ replaced by the newer VAX, a DECnis Router (usable and used as the companyF core router) and no additional license (and P.S.I. license was also noG longer needed, because of GAP). It was a big win. It allowed us also tohJ access X.25 from more than one host at the same time (we had 10 channels).  F Our last VAX got wracked well after X.25 (which got cancelled with theF DECnis many years ago) so there was no need to find a GAP replacement.G GAP is/was not available on OpenVMS Alpha, so one had to use LLC2 (readIG X.25 over LAN) and the X.25 product on OpenVMS Alpha (which didn't likee; the old PSI license but did also want a license at all ;-).e  G So, if you keep a/the VAX and find an old DECnis (don't think that DNPGtE still sell/support them, but I may be wrong) is probably the cheapestl7 solutions. But don't forget to check the other hints...a   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd% Network and OpenVMS system specialiste E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 16:43:30 GMT% From: Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com>i- Subject: Need help passing text to executableb< Message-ID: <Xns932862EE6D3A7riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.98>  H I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text file 2 and redefining sys$input using the typical format:  % $ define/user sys$input text_file.txt-# $ define/user sys$command sys$input0 $ run program.exeU  ! text_file.txt contains stuff like    helloa goodbyek 12345u <ESC>[S:    H     	Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed correctly G to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user to press @C the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button. So the problem is how to develope the  I correct escape sequences in a text file to pass. Remember, this is a raw rD text file and cannot contain any DCL commands or symbols. Also, the H executable program uses SMG for I/O, if this has anything to do with it.  +     	Any help would be greatly appreciated,h  	     	Markl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:39:55 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>1 Subject: Re: Need help passing text to executablen) Message-ID: <3E5520FB.5010602@vajhoej.dk>4   Mark Fisher wrote:J > I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text file 4 > and redefining sys$input using the typical format: > ' > $ define/user sys$input text_file.txt-% > $ define/user sys$command sys$input0 > $ run program.exek  J >     	Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed correctly I > to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user to press dE > the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button. So the problem is how to develope the nK > correct escape sequences in a text file to pass. Remember, this is a raw 4F > text file and cannot contain any DCL commands or symbols. Also, the J > executable program uses SMG for I/O, if this has anything to do with it.  / I do not belive that SMG$ can read from a file.g   :-(n   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:26:00 GMTi& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>) Subject: Re: netperf 2.2pl3 now availablet. Message-ID: <Y_P4a.83$hv3.47@news.cpqcorp.net>  ' Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:e@ > I did get the following mail from Rick Jones. I did try to getC > netperf for OpenVMS without succes. I could not found the netperfnE > 2.2pl3 version and the README.ovms readdme file. Does anybody know,h > what the problem is?  C I was "organizing" some of the older tar files and nuked the 2.2pl3t4 tar by mistake.  There should be a copy present now.  
 rick jones -- eB firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car windowF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:56:31 -0500d& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?& Message-ID: <3E5508BF.D19A1AB2@hp.com>  D I don't think anyone's using Linux for development anymore. The onlyC thing I know of that's not built on VMS (using cross-compilers) at OB this point is the VMS loader program, which is an EFI application.  L > Did they dual-boot the IA system into Linux and use an ODS-2/5 filesystem ? > to write the disk?  (Thus getting this reply back on topic...u  E At http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=03/02/11/2398316, did youaK notice the funny looking beige drive sticking out of the top of the Itanium L box? That's a poor man's hot swappable drive bay; the files were moved onto  the system via Sneakernet.    I We certainly won't have writable ODS2/5 support under Linux anytime soon.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:20:47 +0100m( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>. Subject: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1: Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKOEGGCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K I have installed Java V1.3.1-5 and Java 1.4.0-1 under OpenVMS V7.3-1. AfterIK installation I did try to verify the installed version of the fast VM. Java2H did display the right version and hang. Under Java V1.3.1-5 did hang theK most time I did call the $java -version command. Java 1.4.0-1 did hang onceyE within a three time calling. To analyze the problem I did made a SHOW G PROCESS AND A SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE. The latter command did release theoG hang. During a running SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE the command $java -versionp# never hangs regardless the version.hL Also I did made an $ANALYZE SYSTEM. A SDA> SHOW PROCESS changed nothing. TheJ process still hangs. But a SDA> SHOW PROCESS /CHANNEL did also release theG hang. Does anybody have an idea, what the problem is? It looks like any $ resource or synchronization problem.  # TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingerta   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:41:09 +0100m! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>n2 Subject: Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-18 Message-ID: <5af95v8rqvi5l1knorf8551l9omld150qb@4ax.com>  M On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:20:47 +0100, "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:    >Hello,p >aL >I have installed Java V1.3.1-5 and Java 1.4.0-1 under OpenVMS V7.3-1. AfterL >installation I did try to verify the installed version of the fast VM. JavaI >did display the right version and hang. Under Java V1.3.1-5 did hang thewL >most time I did call the $java -version command. Java 1.4.0-1 did hang onceF >within a three time calling. To analyze the problem I did made a SHOWH >PROCESS AND A SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE. The latter command did release theH >hang. During a running SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE the command $java -version$ >never hangs regardless the version.M >Also I did made an $ANALYZE SYSTEM. A SDA> SHOW PROCESS changed nothing. TheeK >process still hangs. But a SDA> SHOW PROCESS /CHANNEL did also release the)H >hang. Does anybody have an idea, what the problem is? It looks like any% >resource or synchronization problem.o > $ >TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingert  L Do you have all the relevant patches installed? Most important for Java are   * VMS731_PTHREAD-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 PTHREAD , VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 Compaq C RTL   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azuro   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:16:25 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-13 Message-ID: <J385a.16036$Rb4.209052@news.chello.at>a  \ In article <5af95v8rqvi5l1knorf8551l9omld150qb@4ax.com>, Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:N >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:20:47 +0100, "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:M >>I have installed Java V1.3.1-5 and Java 1.4.0-1 under OpenVMS V7.3-1. After M >>installation I did try to verify the installed version of the fast VM. JavaeJ >>did display the right version and hang. Under Java V1.3.1-5 did hang theM >>most time I did call the $java -version command. Java 1.4.0-1 did hang onceiG >>within a three time calling. To analyze the problem I did made a SHOWbI >>PROCESS AND A SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE. The latter command did release theuI >>hang. During a running SHOW PROCESS/CONTINUE the command $java -versionh% >>never hangs regardless the version.lN >>Also I did made an $ANALYZE SYSTEM. A SDA> SHOW PROCESS changed nothing. TheL >>process still hangs. But a SDA> SHOW PROCESS /CHANNEL did also release theI >>hang. Does anybody have an idea, what the problem is? It looks like anye& >>resource or synchronization problem.  O If I'd the URL of the recent JAVA performance guide handy (see my other thread) G I'd recommend it. I remember having lots of hangs at my last tests someaG years ago by too small quotas. I was able to fix some of them, but mostnC had been unfixable with my 4/166 with 128MB (or my 4/175 with 64MB)uH Currently I have on my 56/433 with 640MB (and one successful JAVA test):  9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:      4096  Bytlm:       400000t9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0i9 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       150  JTquota:          0a9 Prclm:          16  DIOlm:       150  WSdef:        16384i9 Prio:            4  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:        32768 9 Queprio:         0  TQElm:       256  WSextent:    262144n9 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:      4096  Pgflquo:    2097152a    M >Do you have all the relevant patches installed? Most important for Java are ) >u+ >VMS731_PTHREAD-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 PTHREAD i- >VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 Alpha V7.3-1 Compaq C RTL   K Where PTHREAD is not listed in the JAVA doc as a requirement (but installediL here anyway ;-) but ACRTL wants SYS-V0200 and that is dangerous/malicious...  H Nigel: Do you have a recommendation for us on this JAVA/SYS-V0200 case ?   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialistv E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 01:32:20 -0800/ From: robl@no-no-badpuppy.com (Robert Lawrence) / Subject: Questions about simh & OpenVMS installn= Message-ID: <eebf2e9b.0302200132.38c156e3@posting.google.com>e  B I am wondering if simh can read the actual OpenVMS CDs?  I know toA install OpenVMS on a VAX, you need a 512-byte block friendly SCSI 7 CD-ROM.  Will a cheap IDE CD-ROM work for the emulator?t   Thanks.G   Robert J. Lawrence   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 08:46:39 -0800* From: b.seghers@europe.com (Seghers Bruno)' Subject: Rename of SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0]0= Message-ID: <1fe424ce.0302200846.3cca7285@posting.google.com>    Hi,   B I install a system(VMS7.3-1) from scratch (CD)and I want, for some? normalisation reasons, rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR tod SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS7.DIR  D This system is the first one of a futur cluster. I have configure it at installation.  C I will boot on the cd again, mount in local the system disk, rename'F the directory, shutdown the system, change the boot osflags to 7,0 and reboot on the system disk.  ; Does anybody have some problem with this kind of operation.e  * I don't see what it could happend but ....   Thanks for your help  1 Sorry for my english, it's not my mother languaged   Seghers Bruno from Belgium   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:53:11 -0800* From: b.seghers@europe.com (Seghers Bruno). Subject: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR= Message-ID: <1fe424ce.0302200653.7d343c69@posting.google.com>l   Hi,    A small little question :)  F I have installed a system from the CD (VMS 7.3-1) and I want to rename@ SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR to SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS7.DIR  E The system is the first one of a futur cluster. I specified it at thea installation  > I will boot on the CD again, mount the system disk, rename theB directory, shutdown the system, modify the boot_osflags to 7,0 and% reboot the system on the system disk.e  D Does anybody had some problems with this operation. I don't see what it could happend but .....  7 Sorry for my bad english, it is not my mother language.    Thanks for your help   Regardsm   Seghers Bruno from Belgium   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:04:52 +00002( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>2 Subject: Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR) Message-ID: <3E54EE94.CCBBA7BE@127.0.0.1>e   Seghers Bruno wrote:  H > I have installed a system from the CD (VMS 7.3-1) and I want to renameB > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR to SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS7.DIR > G > The system is the first one of a futur cluster. I specified it at the  > installation > @ > I will boot on the CD again, mount the system disk, rename theD > directory, shutdown the system, modify the boot_osflags to 7,0 and' > reboot the system on the system disk.o > F > Does anybody had some problems with this operation. I don't see what > it could happend but .....  & There should be no problems with this.  @ However one thing I would watch for is any third party software,C sometimes at installation, they hard code roots and directories andh@ devices. By and large current DEC/Compaq/HP software is properly configured for installation.  > Make use of the logicals SYS$SPECIFIC, SYS$SYSROOT in your own1 customizations where needed and you should be OK.r   -- f? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesh nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:48:08 -0000o- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> ) Subject: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.mE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1EC@tahiti.tinuk.com>M  D I'm trying to locate the patch kit ALPSYSA03_071 which seems to have  disappeared from the HP website.  3 Can anyone point me in the direction to find it...?a   Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200o [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131r
 www.torex.comu   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:34:34 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>M& Subject: Re: stupid batch job question; Message-ID: <01KSNR2RJVBM9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  N > 1. Hardcode path to MY.SQL in MY.COM - DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]MY.SQL (ugly)J > 2. Create logical name and reference MY.SQL with it - MY_SQL_PATH:MY.SQL  I Also ugly, since the definition of the logical name will be hard-coded.  dI Of course, this could be defined in a table so that it is visible to the aH batch job, but I think the original poster has to understand that first.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:43:35 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)& Subject: Re: stupid batch job question= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302200643.2d4fac8a@posting.google.com>u  p Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote in message news:<1835046036.20030220093411@ncc.volga.ru>...E > On 20.02.2003 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:  >  > > Hi all,n8 > > I am trying to run a batch job from a subdirectory. < > > Assume home directory (sys$login) = dka100:[user.keshav] >  oP > > Batch job is residing on DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] by name MY.COM;1. It calls
 > > MY.SQL;1.b >  tL > > WHen I submit this job, it does a set default to sys$login and of courseL > > executes login.com. Since MY.SQL is not found there it returns an error.% > > What can be a workaround to this?r >  >   You could:N > 1. Hardcode path to MY.SQL in MY.COM - DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]MY.SQL (ugly)J > 2. Create logical name and reference MY.SQL with it - MY_SQL_PATH:MY.SQL8 > 3. Pass full path to MY.SQL as a parameter to MY.COM -4 > submit/par=(DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD]MY.SQL) my.comB > 4. If you are sure that MY.COM and MY.SQL are always in the same. > directory, then you could try something like > $ myproc = f$env("PROCEDURE"):G > $ path = myproc-f$parse(myproc,,,"VERSION")-f$parse(myproc,,,"TYPE")-b >   -f$parse(myproc,,,"NAME")a > $ sql 'path'MY.SQL  ? No. 4 is dangerous. Suppose the NAME is also a substring of thedA directory-spec. Then it won't work. Even TYPE might appear in the 	 dir-spec.m  ) Example:  DSA1:[ONE.TWO.THREE]ONE.TWO;232   C Subtracting the NAME will remove ONE from the dir-spec. Subtractinga, the type will remove .TWO from the dir-spec.   Better to add:  + $    PROCEDURE = F$ENVIRONMENT("PROCEDURE")  $    PROCEDURE_LOCATION -a)         = F$PARSE(PROCEDURE,,,"DEVICE") +a  F$PARSE(PROCEDURE,,,"DIRECTORY"), $    LATEST_PROCEDURE = PROCEDURE_LOCATION -C         + F$PARSE(PROCEDURE,,,"NAME") + F$PARSE(PROCEDURE,,,"TYPE")d% $    SET DEFAULT 'PROCEDURE_LOCATION'i  F (LATEST_PROCEDURE is only illustrative in this example for the case inF which one wants to reference the latest version of the current command; procedure and not have to worry about the current default.)    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmann   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 08:51:54 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)f& Subject: Re: stupid batch job question3 Message-ID: <p+$cLHWLLLfe@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260F0F770@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:	 > Hi all,I6 > I am trying to run a batch job from a subdirectory. : > Assume home directory (sys$login) = dka100:[user.keshav] > N > Batch job is residing on DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] by name MY.COM;1. It calls > MY.SQL;1.b > J > WHen I submit this job, it does a set default to sys$login and of courseJ > executes login.com. Since MY.SQL is not found there it returns an error.# > What can be a workaround to this?   E   The batch job logs in, just the same as an interactive job logs in.tC   You have to have everything in MY.COM that you need starting fromm   login.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:31:09 -0800 (PST)o. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: SYSUAF Proxy @ Message-ID: <20030220133109.20326.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Dear Sirso  6 Is there a way to use the logical name SYSUAF pointing to another server's SYSUAF  ? 7 I am planning to migrate from a AS-2100 to a AS-800, sow4 we dont want to copy the SYSUAF right now, and I was3 thinking in use the SYSUAF logical name pointing tos other-node::SYSUAF et al ! a   Regardsn   FC j   =====I ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil8 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/W   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:48:31 +0530!4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com># Subject: telnet to Win2000 from VMStI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260F0FE40@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>d   Hi all,dL Here we have a Win NT domain. We also have a VMS server and HP-UX. I am able to FTP to VMS and to HP-UX.,G I would like to be able to FTP to my windows 2000 computer from VMS. Ito fails.  A However, I can FTP to HP-UX from VMS? Has anyone else had such ancH experience? Like all sites, I log into a Windows 2000 Server domain - eg- into ITSGNTDOM domain at ctrl-alt-del prompt.   I P.S: Please don't begin a flame war on how crappy NT/2000 is. if you havei+ any details to furnish I shall be thankful.    Cheers keshav  7 +-----------------------------------------------------+ 0 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            0 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  1 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                              0 	U.P, INDIA                                     6                                                       0 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          0 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    5       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS          c7 +-----------------------------------------------------+.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:23:02 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMS0) Message-ID: <3E54BA96.254284D0@127.0.0.1>e   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:  > N > Here we have a Win NT domain. We also have a VMS server and HP-UX. I am able > to FTP to VMS and to HP-UX.PI > I would like to be able to FTP to my windows 2000 computer from VMS. ItI > fails. > C > However, I can FTP to HP-UX from VMS? Has anyone else had such anoJ > experience? Like all sites, I log into a Windows 2000 Server domain - eg/ > into ITSGNTDOM domain at ctrl-alt-del prompt.i  D You need to run an FTP server, or the w2k admin needs to "allow" theG service. This could be not happening due to a security issue, or simply(B that the server is not running. Ask your admins, this is NOT a VMS issue.   K > P.S: Please don't begin a flame war on how crappy NT/2000 is. if you haveT- > any details to furnish I shall be thankful.e  & Agreed, it's a foregone conclusion ;-)  @ Good luck with W2K... If you need a server, try a web search for "Xitami"   -- i? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 05:34 CDTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i' Subject: Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMSu- Message-ID: <20FEB200305345869@gerg.tamu.edu>t  8 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes...M }Here we have a Win NT domain. We also have a VMS server and HP-UX. I am ablee }to FTP to VMS and to HP-UX.H }I would like to be able to FTP to my windows 2000 computer from VMS. It }fails.  } B }However, I can FTP to HP-UX from VMS? Has anyone else had such anI }experience? Like all sites, I log into a Windows 2000 Server domain - ega. }into ITSGNTDOM domain at ctrl-alt-del prompt. } J }P.S: Please don't begin a flame war on how crappy NT/2000 is. if you have, }any details to furnish I shall be thankful. }  }Cheersu }keshav2  : You don't say how it fails. The details could be relevant.  H You probably need to install an FTP server on your W2K system - it is anH optional piece of software that is not installed by default, as I recallH (it certainly isn't installed by default with NT4 server). Then you haveJ to configure it and set it to start during booting. Search the MS web siteG for the info. (NT/W2K/XP come with the FTP *client* installed and readyeB for use, so you can use FTP from that end, but the FTP server is a different piece of software.)    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:56:43 -0500x; From: "Brian Tillman" <Brian.Tillman@notnoone.notnohow.com>o' Subject: Re: telnet to Win2000 from VMSe$ Message-ID: <3e5524eb$1@news.si.com>  H >Here we have a Win NT domain. We also have a VMS server and HP-UX. I am able >to FTP to VMS and to HP-UX.H >I would like to be able to FTP to my windows 2000 computer from VMS. It >fails.e  K Your subject line talks about telnet, while your text says "ftp".  Which is  it?y  J In oreder to FTP to anything, you need an FTP server running on the remoteK side.  Windows 2000 doesn't come with an FTP server.  Ergo, FTP fails.  Buyr0 an FTP server for Windows 2000 and it will work. -- tI Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comc5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM. @ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-199108        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 03:26:02 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS / Message-ID: <3E5482E0.482E8E17@vl.videotron.ca>o   David Svensson wrote:aC > From what I have seen and tested myself Itanium 2 and Power4+ areh& > about equal in terms of performance.  H And the difference between IA64-2 and  Alpha EV65 wasn't that great. ButJ IA64-2 stays put while Alpha gets EV7. The difference becomes significant.  M What happens when IBM nreleases the next big step for Power, while Intel just A does process shrinks for the next few years ? The gap will widen.e  L IA64-1 was useless when it came out, after almost a decade of billion dollarK R&D. IA64-2 was palatable compared to existing chips which were towards the"K end of their life cycle, and will be outclassed by the newer versions while ' IA64-2 stays put for quite a few years.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:25:27 +0000c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSi) Message-ID: <3E54AD17.D54E237D@127.0.0.1>    Baby Peanut wrote: > H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool fori: > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing.  G Others are going through a phase of the Emperors New Clothes. While itsw? true there are limits to some application availability, "viable E platform" is a very shallow description to most of the real usage outl there.  1D > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.G > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in terms.G > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thatsF > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor with @ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.i  F Speed isn't and hasn't been an issue for OpenVMS. Do you want it fast,: or reliable? That's the OpenVMS difference, data is safer.  H The IPF is bringing some RAS features to a chipset that Alpha could onlyE dream of. Alpha was designed in a time of hands-on datacentres. ThoseoE times have changed and the IPF has reflected that in its design. Look<G beyond the clock rates and cache performance before you decide that IPFnA is inferior. I would start to argue that the IPF stands closer aso< hardware what OpenVMS does as software, if you get my drift.  5 Have a look at the documentation at the Intel site...a --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot com,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:07:34 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>o Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSn. Message-ID: <3e54e126$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>   Dear Troll,r  + I've got an elephant who wants to meet you.l  F You might notice that unlike many other groups, the people in this oneK seldom "hide" behind cutesy names.  To reveal who you are, would alow us tonK judge your apparent intimate knowledge of what either the collective HP, orVI perhaps it's executives think about OpenVMS.  Or if you have a clue aboutl anything else.      5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in message 6 news:c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com...H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool for6: > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing. >fD > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.G > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in terms:G > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting that F > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor with @ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.A   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:12:20 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS-< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302200612.51c59e01@posting.google.com>  e "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message news:<b31gpq03jc@enews1.newsguy.com>...S+ > Baby Peanut <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote:oJ > > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aF > > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company that > G > Certain Unix users deluding themselves if they think that Unix is thep > solution to everything.i > 	 > 			Zanea  D So if OpenVMS was the solution to more stuff then it's problems with HP and Itanic would be fixed?-   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 07:26:21 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson): Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSo= Message-ID: <734da31c.0302200726.46093af9@posting.google.com>e  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5482E0.482E8E17@vl.videotron.ca>...e > David Svensson wrote:,E > > From what I have seen and tested myself Itanium 2 and Power4+ aret( > > about equal in terms of performance. > J > And the difference between IA64-2 and  Alpha EV65 wasn't that great. ButL > IA64-2 stays put while Alpha gets EV7. The difference becomes significant.  % Yes, EV7 is great. No doubt about it.c  O > What happens when IBM nreleases the next big step for Power, while Intel justuC > does process shrinks for the next few years ? The gap will widen..  @ Yes, Power5 will probably be very good and very fast, I do think; however that Itanium performance will be pretty good and betC competetive with Power. The large off-chip caches on Power machinesm give large improvements.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:37:51 -0700o+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>d Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSc' Message-ID: <3E55045F.3050408@MMaz.com>-   JF Mezei wrote:    >Highly Theoretical Question:P >-L >If Intel abandons IA64 development in say 2-3 years, replacing it with a 64# >bit 8086 competing against Hammer.t >eH >*IF* HP doesn't see much long term potential for VMS, would they botherN >re-porting VMS, or would they simply stick with whatever IA64 is available at >that time for X years ? >nO >If, at that time, MIPS were still being developped, would HP switch its Tandem2M >product line back to MIPS or would it port Tande, to 64 bit 8086 after Inteli >has added lockstep ?  > O >If IA64 is declared stillborn in a couple of years, I wonder if it wouldn't be=I >just easier for HP to revive PA-Risc instead of porting HP-UX once more.i >-F >I see IA64 a bit like OSI. OSI was to have been the industry standardM >networking. Digital adopted it and spent big bucks on it, but in the end, it N >si TCPIP which became the industry standard. Intel wanted to portray the IA64I >as the future industry standard. HP is betting its business on it. But I@E >really don't see that chip becoming anywhere near industry standard.  >r >r >  t >e  D These points are the same I was making last summer!  With Compaq/HP H killing off Alpha for an unproven IA64, they presume that the economies C of scale will allow them to save money but that only works if IA64  G reaches critical mass and there is NO guarantee of that, especially if  E AMD is successful or AMD's business forces Intel to release a X86-64 o chipset!  / These are questions that HP has not answered...e   Barry    -- t  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:17:32 -06000* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSg/ Message-ID: <v5a3denin903cb@corp.supernews.com>a  H VMS has been declared dead many times in the past.  Probably will in theJ future, though I haven't consulted a soothsayer on this lately.  I believeF there were good reasons for porting VMS to Itanium, both technical andF business.  I also sense that VMS is in better hands with h-p than with? Compaq.  I'm looking forward to seeing what tomorrow brings us.5   -- Dave...r  G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and lessn trouble. -----Mark Twainm  5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in messages6 news:c5cf6e8.0302191104.430817ea@posting.google.com...H > OpenVMS users are kidding themselves if they think it can survive as aD > viable platform.  Their product is being handled by a company thatA > views it as an end-stage legacy system and "political" tool for2: > getting in bed with Intel.  Their market is not growing. >wD > The Itanic simply isn't keeping up with the other chips out there.G > It's totally outclassed in terms of price at the low end and in termshG > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting thatrF > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor withs@ > Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the next
 > generation.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:47:14 GMT(. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <Cw85a.16529$Rb4.215847@news.chello.at>M  \ In article <v5a3denin903cb@corp.supernews.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com> writes:I >VMS has been declared dead many times in the past.  Probably will in the)@ >future, though I haven't consulted a soothsayer on this lately.  > Think of Mark Twain. He is dead now. Despite his nice words...  J >                                                                I believeG >there were good reasons for porting VMS to Itanium, both technical andeG >business.  I also sense that VMS is in better hands with h-p than witho@ >Compaq.  I'm looking forward to seeing what tomorrow brings us.  @ Porting VMS to another platform is good for VMS if it is done by@ more people (which I doubt) and paid by another one (which seems? to be the case). If the same engineers are busy with porting topE ITANIC, then they are not available for doing MOTIF V2, GNOME, OPERA,gA ACROBAT and other things you probably wait for years now. Portingt@ is also good for VMS because it makes VMS more portable and thisC is important to port VMS to yet another platform (IA32-64 or Power) ' sometimes in the not so far distance...e  > I think hp does more than Q for VMS. No doubt. But I think theG "Retain Trust Program" has a typo in its name. It should be "Regain..."0   -Peter  K PS: Have you seen the VMS V7.3-1 box ? It came last summer with the HP logo K on it, while the Layered Products ConDist Decmeber 2002 box still came withaG the Q logo. Funny, but good to see that changing logos is obviously noth their prime intention... --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERy% Network and OpenVMS system specialist- E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:10:13 +0100s! From: "Kees" <kees_b@hotmail.com>k Subject: UCX error/ Message-ID: <1045736237.864690@vti03.vertis.nl>u  J When trying to send (internet) mail from a VMS account the following error occurs: 4 %UCX-E-SMTP_CFERROR, Control File Error in create_cfG %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationr What privilege is needed here? Regards, Kees   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 05:21:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: UCX error (SS$_NOPRIV) 3 Message-ID: <KaMyoNGresW7@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  S In article <1045736237.864690@vti03.vertis.nl>, "Kees" <kees_b@hotmail.com> writes:oL > When trying to send (internet) mail from a VMS account the following error	 > occurs:o6 > %UCX-E-SMTP_CFERROR, Control File Error in create_cfI > %SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, insufficient privilege or object protection violationM  > What privilege is needed here?  5 Have the system manager use VMS Auditing to find out.s  D (The system manager must be involved to grant the privilege anyway.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:51:29 +0100o% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>c. Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE. Message-ID: <b324r8$5ci$1@info.service.rug.nl>  J This assumes that the modified file will be written to exactly the same=20E blocks on disk as the original file. I'm not sure that editors modifyr files in this way.               F.Z.  0 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message =3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEDJGKAA.tom@kednos.com...oC > Since this involves as a first step writing some pattern of bytespG > to the file on disk, the Unix equivalent might be to to pull the file H > in with an editor, wipe out its contents, save and then 'rm' the file.H > This requires about 4 lines of code using, e.g. ed and rm and should = be noo) > less efficient than the VMS counterpartr >=20 > >-----Original Message----- 9 > >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]t+ > >Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:30 PMc > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com1 > >Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE  > >S > >f > >"C.W.Holeman II" wrote: > >>=20u > >> What is Unix for: > >>=20c  > >>  $ SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE > >e+ > >To my knowledge, there is no equivalent.e > >f > >--=20 > >David J. Dachtera > >dba DJE Systems > >http://www.djesys.com/  > >m+ > >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:m" > >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n= > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).aC > >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003. > >d > ---j( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:56:57 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>. Subject: Re: Unix for SET FILE/ERASE_ON_DELETE) Message-ID: <3E5508D9.8683A6F0@127.0.0.1>    Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEDJGKAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:HE > > Since this involves as a first step writing some pattern of bytesaI > > to the file on disk, the Unix equivalent might be to to pull the fileaJ > > in with an editor, wipe out its contents, save and then 'rm' the file.N > > This requires about 4 lines of code using, e.g. ed and rm and should be no+ > > less efficient than the VMS counterpartn > J >   The DOD approved security erase pattern is much more sofisticated thanB >   writing one pattern of bytes to the file.  And on VMS, when it? >   says it's done, it's done to the disk, not the file buffer.   F Ah, better then to install 7.3-1 with GNU and set the VMS attribute on	 the file.D  G Security never has been the strong point of UNIXen, and I'm no stranger:F to the users of VMS wanting to implement the DoD erasure pattern code.. Guess what platform they will be staying with. -- O? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesl nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:00:36 -0000h, From: seibel_r@rich.ociweb.com (Rich Seibel)) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsw5 Message-ID: <slrnb5834d.5gj.seibel_r@rich.ociweb.com>d  J On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:43:01 -0500, Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: >Rich, >h >Re: RMS IO timings .. >PC >Something else to consider is what VMS V7.3-1 now provides wrt RMSh >enhancements.   >iD Indeed.  It is difficult to get a direct comparison without knowing E how each system behaves internally.  For example, what size units are  written to disk and when.a  B >Some of these new features need to be turned on i.e.. are not the >default options.o >  >Reference: (a few extracts)A >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/6657/6657pro_007.htmlp" >(scroll down to RMS New Features) >V; >5.11.1 Increase in Default I/O Transfer Size to Reduce I/Oo >q? >"The multiblock count for a sequential disk file sizes the RMS-G >intermediate buffer for disk block transfers; this count serves as themI >I/O transfer size. The system default multiblock count is increased from B >16 to 32. This increase reduces sequential file read or write I/OB >requests by a factor of 2. If the application does not assign theB >multiblock count explicitly (using the RAB$B_MBC setting) or as aH >process default (using the DCL command SET RMS_DEFAULT), the new system) >default multiblock count of 32 applies."  >eI This is a double edge sword.  If you are truly doing write-thru cache and.I this is the I/O size, then when the application writes are small the I/O a actually increases.   6 >5.11.3 New System RMS Write-Behind Performance Option >cG >"An existing user write-behind (RAB$V_WBH setting in RAB$L_ROP) optionOG >is available for unshared sequential files to request that RMS overlap I >writes to disk. Specifying the write-behind option ensures that at leastsF >two buffers are allocated by RMS at connect time. When one buffer hasG >been filled with records, RMS switches to the second buffer and issuesgE >an asynchronous QIO to write the contents of the first buffer out toaF >disk. RMS does not stall the process, but rather continues to processC >records in the second buffer while the QIO for the first buffer isfB >completing. Overlapping I/O can be a big performance win for some >applications. " >aH This attribute appears to offer a way to get caching behavior similar toH the normal Tru64 behavior.  Of course, the user has to accept the chanceF of data loss this entails.  I know there are a lot of places where theJ performance gain is more than enough to overcome the potiential data loss.H For example, where the input data is still present and, in the rare case of a crash, can be rerun.    Rich  I >This feature is a system option. It is not the default, however, for the8 >following reasons:  >SH >- Enabling write-behind involves a change in error reporting that couldA >affect some applications. (A write error might be reported for auB >subsequent operation rather than for the write on which the error >occurred.)n > G >- The allocation of an additional RMS intermediate buffer might resultCG >in more page faulting if process working set quotas are insufficient. e >V >Regards >q >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.0" >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477s >Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom . >    (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  >OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM >e >@ >-----Original Message----- 5 >From: Rich Seibel [mailto:seibel_r@rich.ociweb.com] t  >Sent: February 18, 2003 9:33 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings >  >rC >On 18 Feb 2003 02:39 CDT, Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote: C >>Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes... }OpenVMS7.2-1,i' >>}Tru64 v4.x or 5.x (don't know which)I >>} E >>}We've been working with some new fibre storage, and doing some I/O B >>}timings. And I've run across something that I hope somebody can >explain >>}it. >>} D >>}One of the timing tests was to write a 2Gig text file. A simple CF >>}program was written, and compiled on both platforms. Both platforms >wereY" >>}attached to the same storage. ( >>} H >>}On Tru64, the run time was about 30 seconds. On VMS it was 2 minutes. >>} G >>}On another test, Tru64 copied that same 2Gig file to another version0 >ofY6 >>}itself in 20 seconds, while VMS took over a minute. >>}  >>}Why the disparity?  >>} 	 >>}Lyndono >>H >>On VMS the data is on the disk's platter when it is done - it doesn't H >>do write-back caching and it turns of the on-disk cache (but probably F >>can't change the caching that some of these fibre controllers do on H >>their own, you'd have to configure that yourself). On Tru64 there may I >>be a chunk of data in some cache somewhere along the way unless you areo >rI >>very carefull about your configuration and flushing it to disk. On the  I >>other hand, I might expect it to be a larger disparity if that were then >  >>case.R >>A >If this analysis is correct, and I believe it is, then adding an7E >fsync(fd) after each fwrite or fprintf should make the Tru64 version  >flush the dG >buffers to the disk after each write as VMS does and should not affect0 >the 0$ >VMS numbers (it should be ignored). > I >>The VMS C RTL and such have gotten better performance in recent years, tB >>but it still doesn't do much multibuffering and such by default F >>(although it is a lot better than it used to be). If you apply some E >>optional qualifiers to your [f]open() you can probably improve the b+ >>throughput on VMS, possibly considerably.t >>0 >>Some possibilities which might narrow the gap: >>= >>fopen(name, mode, "ALQ=32", "DEQ=4096", "MBF=6", "MBC=128", ( >>     "FOP=cbt,tef,sqo", "ROP=rah,wbh") >>I >>Depending on what you are doing, some of these may not be appropriate -  >n* >>but in this case they are probably fine. >> >>Give it a try and compare. >>
 >>--- Carl >C >7 >-- E >--------------------------------------------------------------------eE >Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 211tE >Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comaE >Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comoE >--------------------------------------------------------------------d     -- yD --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 211D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 06:49:24 -0600 . From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsT. Message-ID: <3E547A74.3C5C9286@pressenter.com>   Hello again.  C I've made a change to my C code with the suggestions made by Kerry?e= (Apologies, if incorrect) And I got an 80% reduction in time.     7 But, it proves that I can make it run faster on my VMS.<  H I brought up the points made here about Tru64 doing so much caching, and) how to add the fsync() to negate that....E  F Help me out here, I'm a little rusty on my file descriptors, because I8 don't use them much. The C code is, roughly, as follows.     FILE *fp   fp = fopen("testfile.txt","w")   fprintf(fp, "Hello World\n");h     /* fsync goes here */l   fclose(fp);     ) How do I declare the fsync()? Help says: e   int fsync(int file_descriptor);-    5 Where do I get the file_descriptor? From what I have.   D I know it's probably a trivial thing, but I work with descriptors so little... I've forgotten.g       Thanks in advance,     Lyndon     -- eG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of myD	 employer.l    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:05:15 +0100d9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>I) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsd' Message-ID: <3E54E09B.3F053557@aaa.com>-  + Isn't "fp" a pointer to a file descriptor ?   + (The manual calls it a "File pointer", and,c, also under the "fopen" header, a "address to0 a FILE structure", but I think it's the same...)  
 So just try :u   fp = fopen("testfile.txt","w") fprintf(fp, "Hello World\n");6
 fsync(fp); fclose(fp);.     Jan-Erik Sderholm   Lyndon Bartels wrote:i > * > How do I declare the fsync()? Help says: > ! > int fsync(int file_descriptor);  > 7 > Where do I get the file_descriptor? From what I have.1 >[   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:09:34 -0600y* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingse/ Message-ID: <v5a2ujca46u7cc@corp.supernews.com>s   Hein,m  J Thanks for joining in here.  Now a question.  If the RMS sysgen parametersG are left to default values, which are mostly zero, and a program is notCK written to take advantage of any of the RMS stuff mentioned in this thread,rI can one safely assume that mostly zero is what they'll get?  If yes, thenaJ **in general** is it a good idea to bump these sysgen parameters up to getL an I/O performance boost from VMS?  How might this bump affect programs that4 are written to take advantage of these RMS features?  L And if one uses an external disk controller, HS*nn, VMS thinks its done withI writes when the controller (not the disk) tells it.  So the data isn't on H the platter/s until the controller gets around to it and VMS goes on its merry way thinking all is well.i -- Dave...   G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and lessn trouble. -----Mark Twainf  3 "hein" <hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageW( news:cmF4a.41$OV2.35@news.cpqcorp.net... > = > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messageO* > news:3E52959D.5F56EC4D@pressenter.com... > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:D >C@ > > On my 500au, I ran 6 tests changing DIOLM, BIOLM, and BYTLM.9 > > These tests ran from 1394 seconds up to 1580 seconds.  >SA > As per my previous reply, nice experiment, but a waste of time.tJ > Very, very, few, programs know how to honor these process limits. Backup > being one of the few.tI > For normal program it suffices to have enough. More will not help more.i >a >rH > > I've been reading the performance management manual, and I've prettyI > > much concluded that the computer isn't CPU bound. Memory doesn't lookeD > > bad, but I haven't got to that part of the manual yet. I/O, both" > > buffered and direct, are high. >tC > Fix the buffered IO by pre-allocating and/or using large extents.eL > > Now... the question I have.... Is how do I figure out how/why to correctL > > the I/O bind. My gut tells me that the I/O rate is high, but the size isK > > too small. The computer is spending more time keeping track of the I/OsOJ > > than actually doing the I/Os.... If I could make the size larger, then# > > the number might be reduced....d > E > The RMS knob for this is MULTI BLOCK COUNT = RAB$B_MBC ( 0 - 127 ).s >  > hth, >      Hein. >o >r   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 06:01:23 -0800. From: hgutierrez@futurecomgroup.com (henry g.)$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5= Message-ID: <6a7a8ae5.0302200601.2e0178ac@posting.google.com>   
 Thanks David.   D This was a little complex, most of the engineers I spoke with didn'tA know the answer for certain... we all speculated but yours is the.5 first with actual hands-on experience in this matter.o  
 Thanks again!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:48:41 -0500S From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Watcher doubtsh? Message-ID: <OF1FFCE1D3.86F94362-ON85256CD3.0051093F@metso.com>g   You should subscribe at   Info-MadGoat-Request@MadGoat.com and ask there.  E From:  contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) on 02/19/2003 06:15 PMJ  9 Please respond to contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)=   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:_   Subject:    Watcher doubts    H I=B4m using Watcher Idle Killer in my job - We have 8 VAX V5.5-2 machin= es.cB I can run Watcher in 5 machines, but in other 3 I can=B4t do this.H I don=B4t know what happens, but Watcher doesn=B4t run in 3 VAX machine= s.C Is there any site where I can get more informations about Watcher ?CB (in these 3 machines, when I issue sh sys I get any process in the  - swapped out - state ).s Thanks in advance...         =P   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2003 03:26 CDTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ) Subject: Re: What happened to Microsoft ?n- Message-ID: <20FEB200303263728@gerg.tamu.edu>t  4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes...O }Sicne the .COM bomb, Microsoft fell from $120 down to a $50 to $60 range whichn) }it was able to maintain for a long time.e } 9 }I happened to check its stock today and it is at $24.50 - } G }Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ?    It split 2 for 1.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:32:52 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: XPDF and print : Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKKEGHCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K I did install XPDF to view PDF files (also installed as CSWB plugin). There I is an XPDF resource file to specify defaults. Within this file there is a- line for the print command.-H It is specified like this: |lpr print. This looks like UNIX and not like= OpenVMS. Is it possible to change the to a command like that:c' |print/queue=que/delete/para=side=two ?gL Also, if I click onto the button print, I can anly specify a filename, not aL print command. Does anybody know how to do? Or is there any XPDF verion out,( which can print directly to the printer?  # TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingertt   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:29:19 GMTa. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?e3 Message-ID: <zn75a.15358$Rb4.192871@news.chello.at>-  F Was had happened to the JAVA performance guide from Jan 2003 which was> downloadable one or two weeks ago (I think it was in /new/ ) ?K I printed and read it (and gave it to another one - after I raised SYSTEM'ssH and my UAF quotas again a little bit), but now it seems I can't find itsD URL again. Was it removed from the web ? Why ? Who has a file copy ?  D IIRC the minimum (or was it average) recommendation for a VMS system* with JAVA was an Alpha 6/500 with 1GB mem.   TIA"   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:33:15 +0100s6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?e) Message-ID: <3E55034B.6050805@vajhoej.dk>o   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:H > Was had happened to the JAVA performance guide from Jan 2003 which was@ > downloadable one or two weeks ago (I think it was in /new/ ) ?M > I printed and read it (and gave it to another one - after I raised SYSTEM'slJ > and my UAF quotas again a little bit), but now it seems I can't find itsF > URL again. Was it removed from the web ? Why ? Who has a file copy ? > F > IIRC the minimum (or was it average) recommendation for a VMS system, > with JAVA was an Alpha 6/500 with 1GB mem.  9 When you say "Java" do you mean *any Java* or do you meann CSWS_JAVA (Tomcat) ?   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:59:10 GMTa. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?T3 Message-ID: <yP75a.15776$Rb4.205375@news.chello.at>i  b In article <3E55034B.6050805@vajhoej.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: I >> Was had happened to the JAVA performance guide from Jan 2003 which was.A >> downloadable one or two weeks ago (I think it was in /new/ ) ?eN >> I printed and read it (and gave it to another one - after I raised SYSTEM'sK >> and my UAF quotas again a little bit), but now it seems I can't find itssG >> URL again. Was it removed from the web ? Why ? Who has a file copy ?- >>  G >> IIRC the minimum (or was it average) recommendation for a VMS systemo- >> with JAVA was an Alpha 6/500 with 1GB mem.e > : >When you say "Java" do you mean *any Java* or do you mean >CSWS_JAVA (Tomcat) ?   L No, I mean JAVA RTE/SDK. I still don't use Tomcat, but I downloaded V1.4.0-1H recently to start yet another try with JAVA programs. I started with theK MOZILLA plugin which gave me a "image mismatch" (probably because I haven't K installed the required ACRTL/SYS ECO yet). My next plan is (after some morerG MOZILLA plugins - like the flash one I recently read of - and helpers - G means DCL wrappers for MPEG*PLAY, ZIP or don't know what else) probablyoJ the ACROBAT Viewer (which I already did to some succes many years ago withI JAVA V1.1.8 on an unacceptably old and slow Alpha) and the ICA Client forvI JAVA or similar small goodies. I currently don't plan any production use.E   -- i Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:30:30 +0100i6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?t) Message-ID: <3E5510B6.5050005@vajhoej.dk>s   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > No, I mean JAVA RTE/SDK.  6 In that case I think less than 1 GB of memory will do.   :-)a   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:56:36 GMTw. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?h3 Message-ID: <oF85a.16680$Rb4.219952@news.chello.at>-  b In article <3E5510B6.5050005@vajhoej.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:E >> No, I mean JAVA RTE/SDK.3 >A7 >In that case I think less than 1 GB of memory will do.n  K (It did at least something with 256MB and does other something with 640MB.)aI I meant the recommendation in said JAVA performance guide (and still hopee> that I did quote it correctly) which I can't find/check now...  E I suppose, you haven't seen, downloaded, saved and read this guide...a   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistm E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:18:27 +0100p6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?o) Message-ID: <3E551BF3.8040505@vajhoej.dk>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:d > In article <3E5510B6.5050005@vajhoej.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >>Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: >> >>>No, I mean JAVA RTE/SDK.y >>8 >>In that case I think less than 1 GB of memory will do. >  > M > (It did at least something with 256MB and does other something with 640MB.)hK > I meant the recommendation in said JAVA performance guide (and still hope @ > that I did quote it correctly) which I can't find/check now... > G > I suppose, you haven't seen, downloaded, saved and read this guide...r   Nope.t  4 But I have run Java stuff on both 256 MB and 512 MB.  4 Generally I think Swing sucks. But many other things work quite nicely.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:20:13 +0100g6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?a) Message-ID: <3E551C5D.8010200@vajhoej.dk>r  A BTW, have you subscribed to http://www.vajhoej.dk/arne/vmsjava/ ?h   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:20:59 GMTd. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)3 Subject: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ? 3 Message-ID: <Lf75a.15238$Rb4.192871@news.chello.at>t  F Does someone already has experiences with the (probably still in beta), MOTIF V1.3 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (only) ?  G I was quite surprised to see the MOTIF V1.3 documentation pop up on thedG VMS doc site yesterday. I didn't even expect a V1.3 to come (to be fairbH I expected a V2.0 sometimes in the next two years ;-), but after readingI the rolling roadmaps (where it states a June 2003 date) it seems, that it8B is the first time, that I see the docs pop up on the official siteD (remember, still no TCPIP V5.3 doc there) before the software is out (at least somewhere ;-).   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERl% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.100 ************************ and in terms:G > of performance at the high end.  A news story today is reporting that F > IBM have a Power 5 system running in their labs.  Power 5 is due forE > release next6 Transfer completed.  1629544 (8) bytes transferred.t! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,160e7 >>> 200 Port 12.160 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.e <<< RETR dosrel.txts` >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/dosrel.txt (5904 bytes) started.: >>> 226 Transfer completed.  5202 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,161.7 >>> 200 Port 12.161 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.r <<< RETR dosppp05.zipvd >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/dosppp05.zip (175850 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  175382 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,162 7 >>> 200 Port 12.162 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.e <<< RETR dc009200.zipsd >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/dc009200.zip (468754 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  468206 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,163d7 >>> 200 Port 12.163 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.  <<< RETR com072b.zipb >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/com072b.zip (76414 bytes) started.; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  76162 (8) bytes transferred.t! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,164e7 >>> 200 Port 12.164 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.e <<< RETR bcat-s204.zipf >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/bcat-s204.zip (1636504 bytes) started.= >>> 226 Transfer completed.  1636200 (8) bytes transferred..! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,165d7 >>> 200 Port 12.165 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.d <<< RETR bcat-e04.exerd >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/bcat-e04.exe (898063 bytes) started.< >>> 226 Transfer completed.  898033 (8) bytes transferred.! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,166 7 >>> 200 Port 12.166 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.s <<< RETR arrowasm.zipec >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/arrowasm.zip (60948 bytes) started.e; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  60908 (8) bytes transferred..! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,167d7 >>> 200 Port 12.167 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.  <<< RETR abliss.tgz7a >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/abliss.tgz (11206 bytes) started.r; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  10298 (8) bytes transferred.t! <<< PORT 136,165,113,172,12,168e7 >>> 200 Port 12.168 at Host 136.165.113.172 accepted.e <<< RETR aaareadme.txtc >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/vmslt97b/freepcdos/aaareadme.txt (1332 bytes) started.a9 >>> 226 Transfer com