1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 21 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 102       Contents:P =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_releas# Autogen required after each reboot. ' Re: Autogen required after each reboot. ' Re: Autogen required after each reboot. ' Re: Autogen required after each reboot. ' RE: Autogen required after each reboot. % Re: CSWS/Apache 1.3 Log File problems 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch 5 Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch  Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibility RE: DLTIV Tape Compatibility
 EVA Courses ?  Re: EVA Courses ? P Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Fre Frequent_job.log;32767 Re: Frequent_job.log;32767 Re: Frequent_job.log;32767( Re: How do I join the domain with Samba?7 How do I run the backup command with this samba backup? ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems 2 Re: How to calculate the detached processes on VMS2 Re: How to calculate the detached processes on VMSM Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it" H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolP Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolG Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly G Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly G RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly ! Re: Interesting article about IBM $ Is there a way to FTP a locked file?( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing" RE: Madison, successor to McKinley> memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600B Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600B Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600( Re: Need help passing text to executable+ Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ? 5 Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0 and MACRO Assembler P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai( Re: Opinion of Quanta Training in the UK RE: Oracle on OpenVMS on Marvel ) Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 * Re: Questions about simh & OpenVMS install2 Re: Quirk using SYSMAN and Create/Terminal=DECTERM) Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR $ RE: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.$ Re: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.$ Re: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.$ RE: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit. Re: stupid batch job question  Re: SYSUAF Proxy+ Re: telnet timeout/hang vms7.3-1, tcpip 5.3  Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMSP unix converging  [was: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs] IBM monopoly IBMP Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly  vs.  IBM P Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs.  IBM mP Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs.  IBM mP unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopo! Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ? ! Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ? ! Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ? ! Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?   Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  RE: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings  Re: What happened to Microsoft ?  Re: What happened to Microsoft ?  Re: What happened to Microsoft ? Re: Window Manager Joy Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?. Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ?. Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ?? [TCPware V5.6-2 = BIND 8.1.2]  How to get rid of error messages C RE: [TCPware V5.6-2 = BIND 8.1.2]  How to get rid of error messages   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 10:53:22 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) Y Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_releas = Message-ID: <857e9e41.0302211053.4c43b5c8@posting.google.com>    Dear Newsgroup,   @ Please keep in mind that this has just come out and may not have reached all parts of HP yet.
 Warm Regards,  Sue      From: 	Hanley, William  ' Sent:	Friday, February 21, 2003 1:23 PM " To:	OpenVMS Systems Software GroupA Cc:	Sidwell, Bill; Smiddy, Karen; Jansen, Elaine; Larrabee, Mary;  Howard, Stephen F Subject:	Official OpenVMS name for the Itanium releases and  products   What's in a name?   F Quite a bit, if the name is for the highly anticipated port of OpenVMS" to the Intel Itanium platform!!!  
 Official Name = The following is the official name for OpenVMS on the Itanium D platform. This is the full name of the product and to be used in any. title, header, and first mention in body text.  " "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"   
 Informal Name > The following is the informal use of the name. We can use thisC abbreviated name after we formally state the official name and have % subsequent references to the product.   
 "OpenVMS I64"   B Many thanks go out to all those who contributed creative ideas forF consideration. On considering all recommendations, legal requirements,C and branding needs hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 became the name.   D hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64 conveys the true strategic directionE for OpenVMS as a viable, robust, and evolving operating system on the A industry standard 64-bit platform. It also is in line with the hp ? Servers strategic direction for Itanium-based platforms. And it ; complies with both Intel and HP legal, branding, and naming  guidelines.   E The name "OpenVMS" is used to refer to any operating system component @ or product that is common to all system architectures. The term,? &#8220;OpenVMS operating system&#8221; is coupled with the name B descriptor for each specific hardware architecture (VAX, Alpha, orA Industry Standard 64). The operating system sub-products, such as : layered products, compilers, tools, etc. that are hardwareA architecture-specific, also carry the architecture name. (e.g. hp ' COBOL for OpenVMS Industry Standard 64)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:52:05 -0000 - From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> , Subject: Autogen required after each reboot.E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE56@tahiti.tinuk.com>   G I have a recently built system [VMS 7.3-1] which is asking that AUTOGEN F gets run after each reboot, as it does during the upgrade/installationA procedure. Is there a setting in SYSGEN or similar [I don't know, F something like STARTUP_Pn set to UPG?] that regulates this? Have had a quick search but nothing yet.    Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 03 06:29:18 PST From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com 0 Subject: Re: Autogen required after each reboot.( Message-ID: <UnBD33bYtACY@cpva.saic.com>  E In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE56@tahiti.tinuk.com>, 0  "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:I > I have a recently built system [VMS 7.3-1] which is asking that AUTOGEN H > gets run after each reboot, as it does during the upgrade/installationC > procedure. Is there a setting in SYSGEN or similar [I don't know, H > something like STARTUP_Pn set to UPG?] that regulates this? Have had a > quick search but nothing yet.  >   F Is the value of SYSGEN's STARTUP_P3 parameter is set to "AGEN"? SearchD SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM for STARTUP_P3 and AUTOGEN... follow the code path for details...    --   - Jim    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:48:33 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>0 Subject: Re: Autogen required after each reboot.0 Message-ID: <3E564A53.858491B1@blueyonder.co.uk>   Steve Spires wrote:  > I > I have a recently built system [VMS 7.3-1] which is asking that AUTOGEN H > gets run after each reboot, as it does during the upgrade/installationC > procedure. Is there a setting in SYSGEN or similar [I don't know, H > something like STARTUP_Pn set to UPG?] that regulates this? Have had a > quick search but nothing yet.    Steve,  @ Are there any other error messages? This can be due to hardcodedC values (rather than MIN or ADD) in modaparams.dat causing something = to fail to startup (probably DECWindows or network software). : There is usually a message on the console if this happens.   regards,    >  > Steve Spires > Technical Consultant > Torex Health > [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  > [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131  > www.torex.com    --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:44:44 GMT / From: "Jeff Goodwin" <jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com> 0 Subject: Re: Autogen required after each reboot.8 Message-ID: <0Is5a.62344$9U3.45069@twister.nyroc.rr.com>   What does this command show?   SYSGEN> SHOW/STARTUP  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE56@tahiti.tinuk.com... G I have a recently built system [VMS 7.3-1] which is asking that AUTOGEN F gets run after each reboot, as it does during the upgrade/installationA procedure. Is there a setting in SYSGEN or similar [I don't know, F something like STARTUP_Pn set to UPG?] that regulates this? Have had a quick search but nothing yet.    Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:30:32 -0000 - From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> 0 Subject: RE: Autogen required after each reboot.E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1F8@tahiti.tinuk.com>    $ mc sysgen show/startup1   Startup command file =3D SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM    Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    >>-----Original Message-----9 >>From: Jeff Goodwin [mailto:jgoodwin@maine.rrr-r.com]=20  >>Sent: 21 February 2003 16:45 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 >>Subject: Re: Autogen required after each reboot. >> >> >>What does this command show? >> >>SYSGEN> SHOW/STARTUP >>= >>"Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message=20 @ >>news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE56@tahiti.tinuk.com.. . G I have a recently built system [VMS 7.3-1] which is asking that AUTOGEN F gets run after each reboot, as it does during the upgrade/installationA procedure. Is there a setting in SYSGEN or similar [I don't know, F something like STARTUP_Pn set to UPG?] that regulates this? Have had a quick search but nothing yet.    Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:38:31 -0500 + From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> . Subject: Re: CSWS/Apache 1.3 Log File problems0 Message-ID: <O1q5a.111$WI5.110@news.cpqcorp.net>  8 "ted crane" <googlepost01@tedcrane.com> wrote in message6 news:dd169acf.0302201417.867af48@posting.google.com...6 > An earlier posting described problems with log files7 > under CSWS/Apache 1.2.  The responses did not suggest * > whether the same problems occur in V1.3. >  > Problems: - > 1) Log files seem incomplete.  Some entries  >    do not seem to appear. - > 2) Automatic flushing to log files is often . >    hours behind actual access.  There may be, >    some correlation between number of hits& >    and automatic flushing frequency. >  > Observations: . > 1) APACHE$CONFIG FLUSH  *does* seem to work.- >    It certainly does flush recent activity. - >    It is not clear whether earlier activity ( >    is also completely flushed to logs. >  > Questions:: > 1) Is there an actual problem in V1.3.  Please describe.@ > 2) Is there a foolproof workaround for V1.3?  Please describe.9 >    This workaround might involve the log file handling, 3 >    or perhaps "rules of usage" for other parts of 8 >    CSWS/Apache which will minimize/eliminate problems.D > 3) Will there be a patch to address these problems, if they exist? >  > Suggestions:3 > 1) Document existing flushing behavior so that it  >    is predictable.. > 2) Implement a mechanism to manage automaticJ >    flushing interval.  Ex: define APACHE$LOGFILE_FLUSH_INTERVAL hh:mm:ss  K The short answer is we're addressing recently reported problems in log file I flushing. The cause may or may not have anything to do with the FLUSH/NEW I commands. We will issue an update kit as soon as we've fixed the problem. 3 The new update kits will be announced here in co.v.    Regards,  
 Rick Barry HP Secure Web Server OpenVMS System Software Group  Hewlett Packard Company 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------   Date: 17 FEB 2003 17:02:04 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> > Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch2 Message-ID: <17FEB03.17020423@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  < koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: >   D >     On my hobbyist Alpha, I've been having trouble with a conflict2 >    between Multinet and a couple of VMS patches. >   J >     Every time I apply VMS721_SYS V11.0 or VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 DECwindowsF >    stops working unless I leave out Multinet in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  K >    During boot the startup process will logout and the cursor changes to  J >    X, and then the system sits (IIRC the DECW server process is in LEF).8 >    I can log in to the console only in character mode. >   E >     If I try to start Multinet after boot, the X server hangs after  >    Multinet starts.  >   H >     Prior to installing either of these patches everything seems to be >    OK. >   C >     I've been through this a couple times and finally yesterday I E >    installed DEC TCPIP services instead of Multinet and that seemed 
 >    to work.  >   / >     Is there an ECO or something I'm missing?  >   H >    Right now I've got the following OS, Windows, and network software: >    VMS721_SYS V11.0  >    VMS721_ACRTL V3.0 >    TCPIP V5.0-10 >    VMS721_UPDATE V3.0  >    VMS721_PCSI V1.0  >    VMS721_SYS V1.0 >    VT V2.1-H   (VTAM)  >    FTAM V3.2-N >    OSAK V3.0-Q >    DECNET_OSI V7.2-1 >    DWMOTIF V1.2-5  >    OPENVMS 7.2-1 >    Multinet V4.3 Rev A  B I have 2 VMS 7.2-1 systems with both the SYS v12.0 and UPDATE v3.0B patches installed with Multinet (v4.4) running fine.  According toD the log files, both systems were running the VMS 7.2-1 / SYS v11.0 /B UPDATE v3.0 / MultiNet v4.3 combination without problems for about	 2 months.   F I'm trying to help out on a VMS 7.3, MultiNet 4.3 system with problemsB similar to yours - ie, DECwindows doesn't start.  SHOW USERS shows> a SYSTEM user on device WSA1:.  If we don't start MultiNet viaB systartup_vms.com, then DECwindows starts fine (no process holdingC WSA1:) and we can start MultiNet later.  This system has UPDATE 1.0  and SYS 2.0 installed.  E Both your system and the 7.3 system I mentioned are running DECnet V. B My 7.2-1 systems are both running DECnet IV.  I don't know if that" has anything to do with it or not.  < Btw - TCPIP will be automatically started by the presence of@ SYS$MANAGER:SYS$NET_SERVICES_TCPIP.COM.  You won't want to start both TCPIP and MultiNet.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Feb 2003 16:50:06 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) > Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch0 Message-ID: <b2r3ru$1la$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  q In article <Har7dDZhQYTE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > C >    On my hobbyist Alpha, I've been having trouble with a conflict 1 >   between Multinet and a couple of VMS patches.  > I >    Every time I apply VMS721_SYS V11.0 or VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 DECwindows E >   stops working unless I leave out Multinet in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.   J >   During boot the startup process will logout and the cursor changes to I >   X, and then the system sits (IIRC the DECW server process is in LEF). 7 >   I can log in to the console only in character mode.  > D >    If I try to start Multinet after boot, the X server hangs after >   Multinet starts. > G >    Prior to installing either of these patches everything seems to be  >   OK.  > B >    I've been through this a couple times and finally yesterday ID >   installed DEC TCPIP services instead of Multinet and that seemed >   to work. > . >    Is there an ECO or something I'm missing? > G >   Right now I've got the following OS, Windows, and network software:  >   VMS721_SYS V11.0 >   VMS721_ACRTL V3.0  >   TCPIP V5.0-10  >   VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 >   VMS721_PCSI V1.0 >   VMS721_SYS V1.0  >   VT V2.1-H   (VTAM) >   FTAM V3.2-N  >   OSAK V3.0-Q  >   DECNET_OSI V7.2-1  >   DWMOTIF V1.2-5 >   OPENVMS 7.2-1  >   Multinet V4.3 Rev A   J I had a similar problem after I installed VMS712_GRAPHICS V4.0 . This fileO provided a new SYS$LIBRARY:DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP.EXE which was incompatible with 	 Multinet.  Workarounds:M 1) Remove transport TCP/IP from SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM for J    the nodes in question. Disadvantage: no X-sessions for Desktops anymoreM 2) use the old "pre-patch" version of the file (worked all right in my case).   O Process Software released a UCX-driver patch that fixed the problem and allowed  me to use the new file again.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 17 FEB 2003 18:59:30 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> > Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch2 Message-ID: <17FEB03.18593036@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  K In a previous article, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote: s > In article <Har7dDZhQYTE@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > > E > >    On my hobbyist Alpha, I've been having trouble with a conflict 3 > >   between Multinet and a couple of VMS patches.  > > K > >    Every time I apply VMS721_SYS V11.0 or VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 DECwindows G > >   stops working unless I leave out Multinet in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.   L > >   During boot the startup process will logout and the cursor changes to K > >   X, and then the system sits (IIRC the DECW server process is in LEF). 9 > >   I can log in to the console only in character mode.  > > F > >    If I try to start Multinet after boot, the X server hangs after > >   Multinet starts. > > I > >    Prior to installing either of these patches everything seems to be 	 > >   OK.  > > D > >    I've been through this a couple times and finally yesterday IF > >   installed DEC TCPIP services instead of Multinet and that seemed > >   to work. > > 0 > >    Is there an ECO or something I'm missing? > > I > >   Right now I've got the following OS, Windows, and network software:  > >   VMS721_SYS V11.0 > >   VMS721_ACRTL V3.0  > >   TCPIP V5.0-10  > >   VMS721_UPDATE V3.0 > >   VMS721_PCSI V1.0 > >   VMS721_SYS V1.0  > >   VT V2.1-H   (VTAM) > >   FTAM V3.2-N  > >   OSAK V3.0-Q  > >   DECNET_OSI V7.2-1  > >   DWMOTIF V1.2-5 > >   OPENVMS 7.2-1  > >   Multinet V4.3 Rev A  >   L > I had a similar problem after I installed VMS712_GRAPHICS V4.0 . This fileQ > provided a new SYS$LIBRARY:DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP.EXE which was incompatible with  > Multinet.  > Workarounds:O > 1) Remove transport TCP/IP from SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM for L >    the nodes in question. Disadvantage: no X-sessions for Desktops anymoreO > 2) use the old "pre-patch" version of the file (worked all right in my case).  >   Q > Process Software released a UCX-driver patch that fixed the problem and allowed  > me to use the new file again.  >   
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann   E Installing the UCXDRVER and (required) KERNEL patches appears to have 9 solved my similar problems with VMS 7.3 and MultiNet 4.3.    THANKS,  Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------   Date: 17 FEB 2003 20:52:52 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> > Subject: Re: DECwindows hang when using Multinet and VMS patch2 Message-ID: <17FEB03.20525259@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  S In a previous article, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: h > In article <b2r3ru$1la$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:N > > I had a similar problem after I installed VMS712_GRAPHICS V4.0 . This fileS > > provided a new SYS$LIBRARY:DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP.EXE which was incompatible with 
 > > Multinet.  > > Workarounds:Q > > 1) Remove transport TCP/IP from SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM for N > >    the nodes in question. Disadvantage: no X-sessions for Desktops anymoreQ > > 2) use the old "pre-patch" version of the file (worked all right in my case).  >    >    I'll try that.  >   S > > Process Software released a UCX-driver patch that fixed the problem and allowed ! > > me to use the new file again.  >   J >    I thought it would be something like that.  Do you remember the patch >    number? >     " I think you'll want the following:  N  ftp://ftp.multinet.process.com/patches/multinet043/kernel-update-080_a043.zipJ  ftp://ftp.multinet.process.com/patches/multinet044/ucxdriver-020_a044.zip  E The ucxdriver patch applies to both MultiNet 4.3 and 4.4 and requires  the kernel-update patch.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:05:44 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> % Subject: Re: DLTIV Tape Compatibility ' Message-ID: <3E564048.6FE1E2B8@vcu.edu>   G I think that a 15/30 is a dlt 3 xl, or extra length tape... dlt 3 to my 
 understanding E is 10/20, so you're talking about a longer tape.  like the difference  between an exabyte? 8200 2.5 Gb tape and an 8200xl that's weighs in at oh, 3.5Gb...   / I could be wrong, but that would explain that..    jim    Sean Yazdani wrote:  > C > My DLT drive seems unable to read DLT IV tapes (containing Backup F > savesets created by /image/media=compaction from another server). ItF > is type TZ89 and can read DLT III tapes OK. The LED indicator on theG > drive showing tape capacity goes up to 35GB, I believe DLT IV is 40GB D > or 80 with Compaction. Am I doing anything wrong or is DLT III the' > only solution? (error message below).   > Thanks in advance for any help >  > $> mount/for mkc400 / > %MOUNT-I-OPRQSTCAN, operator request canceled , > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked# > $> backup/list/rewind mkc400:/sav  > Listing of save set(s) > F > %BACKUP-F-LABELERR, error in tape label processing on MKC400:[0000002 > -BACKUP-F-NOTANSI, tape is not valid ANSI format   --  @ "sigh... 4,000 years ago I made a mistake..."  Elrond Halfelven, "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:59:36 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> % Subject: RE: DLTIV Tape Compatibility K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCA@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    SEE BOTTOM FOR MY POST.   G I think that a 15/30 is a dlt 3 xl, or extra length tape... dlt 3 to my 
 understanding E is 10/20, so you're talking about a longer tape.  like the difference  between an exabyte? 8200 2.5 Gb tape and an 8200xl that's weighs in at oh, 3.5Gb...   / I could be wrong, but that would explain that..    jim    Sean Yazdani wrote:  > C > My DLT drive seems unable to read DLT IV tapes (containing Backup F > savesets created by /image/media=compaction from another server). ItF > is type TZ89 and can read DLT III tapes OK. The LED indicator on theG > drive showing tape capacity goes up to 35GB, I believe DLT IV is 40GB D > or 80 with Compaction. Am I doing anything wrong or is DLT III the' > only solution? (error message below).   > Thanks in advance for any help >  > $> mount/for mkc400 / > %MOUNT-I-OPRQSTCAN, operator request canceled , > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked# > $> backup/list/rewind mkc400:/sav  > Listing of save set(s) > F > %BACKUP-F-LABELERR, error in tape label processing on MKC400:[0000002 > -BACKUP-F-NOTANSI, tape is not valid ANSI format   --@ "sigh... 4,000 years ago I made a mistake..."  Elrond Halfelven, "Fellowship of the Ring"  J What a DLT IV's capacity is depends on the underlying drive that formatted it.   , http://www.tape-library.com/tape_formats.htm  9 I happen to know that a TZ89 is a DLT7000 under the hood.  :^)   F Moving Monday 24-FEB-2003 - phone # will change to 919 325 7500 x 4816 ========================  William W. Webb- EMS Operations  OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS' 4924 Green Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2800 
 919.874.3043  * <FirstInitialLastNameAtEMAILDotUSPSDotGOV>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:56:33 -0000 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> Subject: EVA Courses ?5 Message-ID: <gKWPwoc2CHA.2316@juno.intranet.dabs.com>    Hi,   + The company I work for has recently aquired    Two HSV110 Controllers, 1 x Compaq SAN works Management Appliance II   1 x SAN Switch 2/16-EL  L Is anyone aware of any course being run by any company that would help us to7 configure / commission this EVA equipment effectively ?    T.I.A.   Craig Cooke    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:23:42 -0000 * From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?6 Message-ID: <b35nb3$1i3nq4$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>  5 "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> wrote in message / news:gKWPwoc2CHA.2316@juno.intranet.dabs.com...  > Hi,  > - > The company I work for has recently aquired  >  > Two HSV110 Controllers. > 1 x Compaq SAN works Management Appliance II >  > 1 x SAN Switch 2/16-EL > K > Is anyone aware of any course being run by any company that would help us  to9 > configure / commission this EVA equipment effectively ?  >   # What part of the world are you in ? 7 I know of a company in the UK that may be able to help.    -- John Travell  VMS crashdump expertise for hire john@travell.uk.net  http://www.travell.uk.net/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:49:32 +1100 1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> Y Subject: Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Fre , Message-ID: <3E55E81C.4050005@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: u > In article <20030210142000.6DD38FFD.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: > > :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: > : F > :> In the past, I have found Ralf Grtners [TEXMF...] stuff ((La)TexA > :> for VMS) very useful; I hope a current version is on the CD.  > : G > :It IS the current version :) Though pi is now larger, so that may be  > :moved into the VMS kits.  >  > J >   I do not presently assume that anything on any current Freeware CD-ROMN >   distribution will be directly carried through to the next Freeware CD-ROM. > L >   With Freeware V5.0, I was unable to carry over any older packages simply> >   due to the volume of new and changed submissions received. > L >   If there is a new TeX kit, I do not (presently) know about it.  If thereL >   is one, I need to know where.  If there are other new or updated kits, I% >   need to see the submission email.  >  Hoff,   < This is late because I have been away on leave for 2 months.  A Could you not provide two/three CDs.  Patrick Moreau's games are  H interesting, but not what my management wants from me, what about those E on one CD.  Other VMS management, etc. on another.  Things like ZIP,  E VMSTAR, Mssrs Sneddon, Everhart and Ragosta, just to name a few that  F spring to mind, have contributions that are somewhat more serious VMS 4 management. (No offense to Patrick's contributions).  G I understand that you could not repeat all the old unchanged melodies,  H but from a user perspective this would be a nice split, and I would not 4 need to re-load V4, V5 and V6 ... to suss out tools.   Regards, Paddy        G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  = individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:13:27 +0400u4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> Subject: Frequent_job.log;32767I4 Message-ID: <8110994444.20030221111327@ncc.volga.ru>  
 Hello all,  =   We have a couple of frequent (every 5 min) batch jobs whichoE eventually create log file with version 32767 and can't run any more.tE Finally I found a solution - figure out which log file we are writingsB to; if version > 32000 then resubmit job to log file with modifiedA name; if we are already writing to modified log file, then renamee? original log files to 1,2,3.. versions and resubmit itself with D original log file name. But this solution is 30 lines long. Is there something more elegant?r   --  
 Best regards,m#  Valentin                          s(  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:45:53 -0000o2 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam># Subject: Re: Frequent_job.log;32767 4 Message-ID: <b34p02$dat$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  A "Valentin Likoum" <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote in message . news:8110994444.20030221111327@ncc.volga.ru... > Hello all, >l? >   We have a couple of frequent (every 5 min) batch jobs whichkG > eventually create log file with version 32767 and can't run any more. G > Finally I found a solution - figure out which log file we are writing D > to; if version > 32000 then resubmit job to log file with modifiedC > name; if we are already writing to modified log file, then renameAA > original log files to 1,2,3.. versions and resubmit itself with F > original log file name. But this solution is 30 lines long. Is there > something more elegant?    How about a wait loop ?B ie "$ wait 0:05", "$ goto loop"   J That's how our 5 minute jobs run (we also run them detached, so they don't clog up a batch queue).p   Another option: submit/nolog   Chrisa   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:53:44 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> # Subject: Re: Frequent_job.log;32767t' Message-ID: <3E55E918.10BCF02A@aaa.com>A  6 In these cases, i create a timestamp in the submitting5 job and include that in the batch log file name. Thatl6 way, all logs are ;1. That, at regular intervalls, run8 a delete with /before="-x-" where "x" is number of days.  1 If there is no "submitting job", I create one :-)    Jan-Erik Sderholm.n   Valentin Likoum wrote: >  > Hello all,   > ? >   We have a couple of frequent (every 5 min) batch jobs whichoG > eventually create log file with version 32767 and can't run any more.oG > Finally I found a solution - figure out which log file we are writingoD > to; if version > 32000 then resubmit job to log file with modifiedC > name; if we are already writing to modified log file, then renamesA > original log files to 1,2,3.. versions and resubmit itself withpF > original log file name. But this solution is 30 lines long. Is there > something more elegant?  >  > -- > Best regards,. >  Valentint* >  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 09:04:53 -0800$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)1 Subject: Re: How do I join the domain with Samba?r= Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0302210904.3fc13278@posting.google.com>d  r "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message news:<B%Y4a.11820$jR3.6081369@news1.news.adelphia.net>... > jm wrote:o	 > > Also,l > > I > > [2003/02/19 09:23:57, 1] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.SMBD]SERVER.C;2:(643)l! > >   smbd version 2.0.6 started. ) > >   Copyright Andrew Tridgell 1992-1998  > > [2003/02/19 09:24:03, 0]7 > > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(118)d+ > >   trust_password_lock: cannot open filem4 > > SAMBA_ROOT/VAR/PRIVATE/mydomain.mycomputer.mac -( > > Error was no such file or directory. > ( > Or no access to the file or directory. > K > I was not able to test that feature of SAMBA 2.0.6.  It says that in the 0 > readme file.  B Yes, but I cannot remember how the joining or functioning within a) domain functions on the OpenVMS platform.0       > > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]7 > > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.PASSDB]SMBPASSFILE.C;2:(287) I > >   domain_client_validate: unable to open the machine account passwordM > > file for m( > > achine mymachine in domain mydomain.I > > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0] CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL_SEC.C;2:(52)rC > >   Failed to set uid privileges to (-1,3735552) now set to (0,0)  > > [2003/02/19 09:24:04, 0]2 > > CMS_ROOT:[SAMBA_VMS.SOURCE.LIB]UTIL.C;1:(2456) > >   PANIC: failed to set uid > J > The panic is likely because it attempted to find a UAF account to match I > the machine account.  There must be an account existing in the UAF for .( > the password lookup API's to function. > K > Also SAMBA seems to also test that the default directory for the account eG > exists, and that the account has access to it before setting the UID.x > A > SAMBA also requires that the UIC's in the rightslist.dat match y > sysuaf.dat usernames.B    C Can you explain or point me to the file that describes what you area3 talking about?  What UAF account is it looking for?p    sI > > if you look, you will see that it is looking for a file in the formatpH > > xxx.xxx.xxx and I don't think OpenVMS supports that.  In the privateG > > directory, there is a file call mydomain__2Emymachine.mac, that was*6 > > created with the command "smbpasswd -j mydomain -r/ > > my_windows_2000_machine" domain controller.g > E > The FRONTPORT library converts files from UNIX formats to an ODS-2 pH > format, as long as the resulting file ends up being in a 39.39 format.5 > The first "." in the filename is converted to __2E.V > . > > The machine.sid is also not being created. > @ > I am surprised that the machine.sid file is not being created.  ? Actually, all that it is doing now is staying in RWAST forever.     C > > Was I not supposed to join the domain this way?  How do I do itM3 > > properly?  Any help is appreciated.  Thank you.o > > " > > OpenVMS 7.2-1 and Samba 2.0.6. > J > You may want to look into the 2.2.x port.  Search the SAMBA-VMS mailing K > list archives for information on the download site.  It is a dynamic DNS mH > location and is not always available.  So if it is not reachable, try K > again a little later.  I have not done anything with the 2.2.x port, but r& > it seems to be getting a lot of use. > 
 Thank you.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 10:24:03 -0800$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)@ Subject: How do I run the backup command with this samba backup?: Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0302211024.ea779@posting.google.com>   Thank you in advance..  = backup samba-2_2_7a-src.bck /sav/sel=[samba-2_2_7a-src...]*.*   user$disk:[rm2.my_name.samba227]  F It creates the directories, but places all the files on the top level.E  The files should be in those directories that it creates, not on the 
 top level.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 11:02:24 +0100( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>D Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems1 Message-ID: <cs9vfzegde7.fsf@Abarth.Update.UU.SE>c  6 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes:    f) > >Gnome is our most visible donation ???  >e4 > Really, I thought GNOME was made by the GNU folks.  5 GNOME is a GNU project, but Sun is adopting it as itse8 desktop of choice and I think that ha gotten quite a bit of media attention.o  7 The desktop environment is what people sit and stare atW: all day, and it focuses their interest. That's why I think Sun's precence is noticed. s  6 Sure probably everyone know about Java, but most just  bitch about how slow it is...h  o; > >The openSource folks preception is pretty warped if thatl: > >is what they think and IBM have obviously been doing an8 > >excellent smoke and mirrors job, but in reality their: > >biggest donation is JFS which isn't widely used because1 > >its inferior to other OpenSource alternatives.p >  > Linux bigot's observation:E > *IBM is actively adopting Linux and introducing them into corporatee > computing.1 > *SUN is actively proposing Solaris (not Free).  J > Linux bigot's conclusion: Therefore, IBM is THE computer company that is > promoting Linux.  4 Thanks Kesav! Summing up my point better than I did!  I > >> They have admitted that AIX is no longer their long term comittment,s > >> that was my main point. > : > >No they havn't that wasn't what the press release said. > M > Check TheRegister (www.theregister.co.uk). It has been rated as the No.1 ITe > news service vendor in UK.  H > They reported something similar to the effect that IBM was consideringI > replacing AIX (not too popular) with Linux as IBM's leading UNIX. Don't-< > exactly remember if they want to phase out AIX completely.  F Yes, sooner or later. Once again you summarizes it pretty well. Andrew? reads something else out of it. I don't know how he manages to.A   /Andreas   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 13:13:39 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nD Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems3 Message-ID: <PI2FQ4UWdeUZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  a In article <b2r7nu$1g5d1p$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > A > The various PDP-11 OSes predated it and all had .COM's as well.5 > As did CPM in 1974.   *    I don't remember using .COM on RSX-11M.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 04:51:40 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: How to calculate the detached processes on VMS6/ Message-ID: <3E55E888.47FE732C@vl.videotron.ca>e   Fred Jiang wrote:iK > Is there any simple way to calculate detached processes on vms? Thanks inE  ' Look at the lexicals F$PID and F$GETJPIs  B You loop through the processes with F$PID, and for each, you wouldJ  F$GETJPI(thepid,"MODE")   If the response is "OTHER", then it is likely a detached process.    HELP LEX F$PID> HELP LEX F$GETJPI will give you more information and examples.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:28 CDTf' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o; Subject: Re: How to calculate the detached processes on VMS-- Message-ID: <21FEB200307280296@gerg.tamu.edu>   4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... }Fred Jiang wrote:L }> Is there any simple way to calculate detached processes on vms? Thanks in } ( }Look at the lexicals F$PID and F$GETJPI } C }You loop through the processes with F$PID, and for each, you wouldnK } F$GETJPI(thepid,"MODE")   If the response is "OTHER", then it is likely aI }detached process. }  }HELP LEX F$PID ? }HELP LEX F$GETJPI will give you more information and examples.a  6 You can also check the JOBTYPE for each, 0 = detached.  A You will find that some jobs that are detached may be reported ascF other things, like "network", and what they get reported as may dependD on how you look. Consider the case of the DTLOGIN process - for thisD process JOBTYPE is 0, or detached,  and MODE returns "INTERACTIVE".   C You may need to carefully consider what you are really looking for.4   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:49:16 GMTy# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> V Subject: Re: IBM says "Itanium is like a science project. There's not a market for it"E Message-ID: <0w74a.618$EMh1.364@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messager) news:3E509F3E.F7DCD7F0@vl.videotron.ca...t > John Smith wrote: C > > Intel's R&D costs over the past 10 years for IA-64 are expensede andtF > > gone - they budgeted for it and spent it, notwithstanding the cost > > overruns and delays. >.F > If the vast majority of the IA64 development costs were absorbed and paid forE > by other product lines, and the price of IA64 chips sold today doesc not.D > reflect its true development costs, wouldn' there be justification	 forFTC toP> > investigate Intel for unethical trade practices (dumping for instance) ?   E Dumping??? IIRC That only applies between countries. Think about what4E you have said....FTC action for selling a product that does not fully-= reflect the cost of development? No way. Lots of products aree: developed and flop because they were either late/obsolete,F fundamentally flawed, or cost too much for the end customer. That doesE not preclude the vendor from using what they learned along the way to ' develop something better/cheaper later.   F Intel will price the product at a point where it is 'competitive' withA whatever is left in the marketplace (and that's why getting Alpha-F killed was such a good idea for them - it removed one more competitiveE benchmark). If that 'competitive price' is lower than the actual costgC of production then the FTC *MAY* have cause for action (but whether?7 they'd actually do anything about it is another story)..  @ And to a point, there is no law that forces a company to price aD product based on its startup cost - they can price it based on theirF estimates of expected sales and hence 'steady-state' production costs.F That said, the FTC would be watching Intel more closely than say Ford,A simply because of Intel's recent history of intellectual property  games and other misdemeanors.s     >h@ > Or would intel simply contend that while it spend 50 gazillion
 dollars on> > IA64, the R&D was only *worth* a few million, the rest being justified by@ > Intel's ineptitudes, errors, mistakes, inefficiency etc etc. ?  D There is no Federal law against stupidity or inefficiency - just the law of the market.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:06:33 GMTa0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyb0 Message-ID: <3e514e48.155156565@news.eircom.net>  A On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:54:37 -0700, bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote:    >Russell Wallace wrote: B >> You're not being picky at all; this is a serious flaw in Linux. >e/ >And just how many revisions of UNIX are there?e  @ Well, last count there were about ten grillion versions of LinuxD alone, and counting all the other members of the Unix family and allB the versions of those, I'd say somewhere safely in excess of fifty grillion :)t   -- o3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."h+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:28:22 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.comrQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya3 Message-ID: <3e55e326$0$193$75868355@news.frii.net>p  D In alt.folklore.computers Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:  D > Any sort of numbers like that will be badly biased by the relativeC > popularity of the  OSes.  Unix code with exploitable bugs will be G > reported as being a Linux bug, even if everything from AT&T Version 6fD > to Solaris could be hacked by it.  Likewise, anything so  platformG > independent it could be used to exploit both Unix and Windows will bef > reported as a Windows bug.  L Very different than that. One particular point that is used to differentiateH different Linux distributions is the number if CDROMs of "stuff" that itD contains. Much of this "stuff" is crap, and also present in a lot ofI different distributions. First one distribution reports a bug or security K hole, and the other follow right along like dominos falling over. Since noteJ all distributions are not the same, the consumer must wait for the fix for his pile of "stuff".  8 A Linux distribution is a kernel plus a pile of "stuff". -- i, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:30:09 GMTo) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>oQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly.' Message-ID: <3E55FF51.30828BD3@ev1.net>    CBFalconer wrote:  >  > Marty Kuhrt wrote:6 > > rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes: > > >n > >o> > > Let's point out the hypocrisy, here.  Micro$haft was foundF > > _GUILTY_, yet you still defend them.  Yet, your signature reads... > > 9 > > > "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."  > > C > > So your (specious) arguments in favor of Micro$haft are blatantr > > treachery on your part.s > >t' > > *plonk* into the killfile with you.o > D > Who was it said something like "I may not agree with what he says,; > but I will defend his right to say it"?  I think you have " > categorized yourself as a bigot. > 1 I believe this quote is attributed to Voltaire...    -- n? +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   | ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+T   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:31:47 GMTM4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 8 Message-ID: <qsob5v8gmd3oc79v74g8f20565h0suab4i@4ax.com>  @ On 19 Feb 2003 10:46:15 +0100 in alt.folklore.computers, Andreas& Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> wrote:  3 >rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:g > I >> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:12:49 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>-	 >> wrote:d  F >> Ask people who like prune juice why it's not as popular as Coke andG >> I'm sure the answer you'll get is "Coca-Cola's marketing budget" ^.~e >o >And they are right about it. ? >Coke in drinking and McDonalds in eating are probably the best.$ >equivalent to Windows in computing. >I much prefer the real stuff.  ' You prefer Jolt, Wendy's, and a shell?    9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadaw -- tF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com  B abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:33:53 GMTa4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly78 Message-ID: <62pb5v0g0okalus8idmhpb3q7nue7fqrgi@4ax.com>  9 On Wed, 19 Feb 03 10:59:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,y jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  1 >In article <3e52b64e.247336825@news.eircom.net>,a5 >   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:MH >>On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:40:31 -0500, J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> >>wrote:  C >You don't have to be a specialist in order to accept the fact thats@ >you can't put your horse before the car and expect to go 70MPH.  * I can if I'm in the car behind the horse!   9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  --  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com IB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam trapso   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 09:05:44 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.comtQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly13 Message-ID: <3e55ebe7$0$193$75868355@news.frii.net>.  R In alt.folklore.computers Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:  H > I know how you miss the old TOPS10 timeshare days... but I'll now takeJ > ANY recent Linux, *BSD, and even any 8 year old Unix software and run itJ > gladly just to have a machine that can go 1 month between boots -- not 1 > day...  F On the other hand, TOPS 10 can be a reality today in the KL10 emulatorE on UNIX. It just becomes a matter of dealing with virtual rather thani actual hardware. -- e, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:50:20 GMTv4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly-8 Message-ID: <jdtb5vo9tasho2btmahhdbg26q4shdd4ot@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:58:03 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, "J. ' Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:   4 >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:40:04 -0700, bfranchu wrote: >>  J >> Records sound better useing a valve amp, and I don't expect there to be> >> a nice fat tube pre amp off the audio D/A on that computer. >m  >Don't be _too_ sure about that.4 ><http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.htm>= for jazz and classical music and also their AX4GE/PE Tube forl? general/pop music, both apparently supporting Dolby 5.1 sound. p  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadan -- eF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com iB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:04:12 GMTo4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 8 Message-ID: <o7ub5v8p17akp99qrl9broqlk1fpdligh5@4ax.com>  ; On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:52:23 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, 1 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:   9 >On Wed, 19 Feb 03 13:06:36 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:r > ; >>I was known as the den mother of TOPS-10.  I worked with  ; >>two guys who were known as The TOPS-10 gurus, JMF and TW.a >f >Cool. >e5 >>TW's definition of a Real Computer was based on itsu= >>price, namely, "You can tell the difference between the menn< >>and the boys by the price of their toys."  Given that this: >>was a generic statement and not sexist, I worked on real >>computers.  Yours is wimpy.R >VF >Mmm, didn't a VAX 6230 cost a fair chunk of change back in the 1980s?E >But certainly since I finished college I haven't worked on a machine-* >with a price tag longer than four digits.  = You don't get double digit processors for four digit prices! V< You need a few hundred K to get yourself a "real computer".   9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, CanadaY -- $F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com tB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam trapsv   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:08:44 GMTa4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyi8 Message-ID: <shub5v4qukm53esca5ftdjgd92qoil7hh8@4ax.com>  = On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:12:30 +0100 in alt.folklore.computers,o+ Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad,priv.no> wrote:    >WS >According to Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>:Be >>In article <3e523c53.216104475@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:n; >>>On Tue, 18 Feb 03 11:37:21 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:1 >>>o4 >>>>In article <3e515058.155684634@news.eircom.net>,8 >>>>   rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:K >>>>>On 17 Feb 2003 20:27:03 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:m
 >>>><snip> >>J >>No it's not.  You need different hardware or adapters to make electrical4 >>equipment interoperate in the US and Europe;[snip] > > >You need it for operation in the same building even, once youA >start with three-phase equipment. Ever heard of triangle vs star_ >configuration?   = IIRC delta and wye on the other side of the pond (which? -- Io can't distinguish any longer!)  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  --  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com  B abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps0   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:04:39 GMT_' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>oQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly-) Message-ID: <3E510611.C9CDB7F4@yahoo.com>:   Brooks Moses wrote:  >  ... snip ... > @ > My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- ofB > the problems that people seem to have with Windows come from theA > competence of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were A > running any other OS en masse, that other OS would have similariB > problems.  All it would take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need< > to be installed as root".... And a .bashrc-infecting virus: > shouldn't be that hard to make, either; who'd notice it?  B I believe that many problems arise from the use of non-ECC memory,@ where soft faults can lay eggs that hatch far far in the future, make backups useless, etc. etc.p   -- t< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. :    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:54:37 -0700A From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.caQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly + Message-ID: <3E513DFD.5040706@jetnet.ab.ca>O   Russell Wallace wrote:5 > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:51:53 -0000, "Rupert Pigott"d7 > <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:  >  > 8 >>Sigh, you appear to have glossed over SVR4 and BSD. :/ >  > H > Because they're not compatible with Linux last I heard, so they aren't > solutions to the problem.  >  > 6 >>Oh and Linux distro's very definately do not all use6 >>the exact same source base. Being picky, I know, but6 >>they don't all use the exact same set of dot-revs or2 >>even patches. Hell, in some cases their userland4 >>compilers use a different ABI (remember the RH GCC
 >>issue ?)...T >  > A > You're not being picky at all; this is a serious flaw in Linux.e  . And just how many revisions of UNIX are there?= I find the lack of good docs and unfinshed utilities are more A a problem. Things that break when you do a upgrade or use strange3F configure or scripting programs are beging fixed but still are a pain. Ben.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:57:43 GMTt0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e513079.147524126@news.eircom.net>  E On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:01:41 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  ( >Server side applications and you arn't.   Perhaps.  
 >The majority 3 >of Sun's business comes from servers and we have ar4 >very very strong ISV portfolio in the server arena.   That is certainly true./   -- w3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."C+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.g! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallaceA   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 13:08:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)"Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <WG5zep3EvmUs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3e512fce.147353509@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:i > D > You should talk to the Linux advocates then, they seem to think it	 > exists.a  C    Maybe if they used professionally developed software, they'd get6    better results.  D    My kid's linux X11 works just fine with my DECdwindows X11 except*    where features cross between R5 and R6.  :    Can't really expect R5 to suport those new R6 features.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:51:12 -0900* From: Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyI' Message-ID: <871y26ptxr.fld@barrow.com>w  1 rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote: D >On 17 Feb 2003 07:37:56 -0900, Floyd Davidson <floyd@ptialaska.net> >wrote:  >r> >>koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:f >>>In article <3e510275.135742199@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:K >>>> On 17 Feb 2003 13:42:17 +0100, Andreas Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de>d >>>> wrote:e >>>> s) >>>>>You do know about X Windows, do you?a >>>> .J >>>> Been a long time since I had the displeasure of trying to use it, butI >>>> last I heard X programs can't even interoperate properly on the same F >>>> operating system let alone be compatible with different operating
 >>>> systems.o >>>eE >>>   I've been using it for over a decade and have not seen any such  >>>   problem. >tC >You should talk to the Linux advocates then, they seem to think ite >exists.  ? Like Bob Koehler, I've been using X and Linux for a decade, andl! I don't think you are even close./  G >>I've seen X interoperating on a WAN that included Mac's, VMS, WinNT4, I >>AIX, and Linux machines.  I would challenge Mr. Wallace to suggest what   >>is going to compete with that? >(E >In practice for most companies the solution that competes with it isvC >just standardizing on Microsoft Windows on the desktop. (With someOB >organizations choosing to standardize on all Linux on the desktop
 >instead.)  = That would be nice... except there is no version of Microsoft = Windows which can run the massive alarm and monitoring systemf@ nor the large trouble ticket system that the dual VMS systems on? that WAN run.  Nor will any Unix or VMS run the office softwaren= that had been selected as standard (hence the WinNT4), and no > non-commercial Unix system was able to run the particular data> base and remote testing facility that the AIX boxes have.  The= Mac's and the Linux boxes just happened to be comfortable for  the set of users that had them.c  @ Simply put, Microsoft Windows *cannot* compete with the existing? setup.  (Well, it might be able to, but only if _many_ millions > of dollars were spent to develop both replacement software and
 hardware.)   --  ; Floyd L. Davidson         <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd> ; Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                 floyd@barrow.comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:20:20 GMTs0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 0 Message-ID: <3e561551.468300429@news.eircom.net>  @ On 21 Feb 03 00:41:37 +0100, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   >This one for Russel Wallace.M > 4 >Please eliminate your cross-posting to comp.os.vms.  A I'll note that I wasn't the one who originally started discussingeF Windows and Unix on comp.os.vms; I merely replied to such a message asA I found it, without changing either the topic or the distributiona; list. I'll also note that discussion of Windows and Unix on*D comp.os.vms is actually quite common, and receives no objection fromE you, and will suggest that it isn't really non-VMS posts you dislike, 1 but the expression of opinions you disagree with.I  ; >You have contributed far too much noise here this week andl= >it is getting hard to find the real substance in that noise.u  F What's noise and what's substance is a matter of opinion; I've had funF in this debate, and I got the impression some of the other posters didD too. Again I put it to you that you single out my posts as noise notB because they're aren't technical discussion of VMS (they represent? only a very small fraction of the total number of such posts on A comp.os.vms) but because you disagree with the opinions expresseds therein.  = >Several people have been asking serious technical questions, > >and some good answers are there too, but due to the volume of) >your posts, they have been hard to find.*  F I put it to you that this is clearly not the case, since the number ofF my posts has been in the low tens, and almost all of them have been to= a single thread, which is trivial to ignore if one so wishes.2  F The above notwithstanding, I've said most of the things I can think of> to say on this topic, so I probably won't be posting many moreF followups to this thread. In the meantime, I suggest you simply ignore it.a  ; >OTOH if you wish to learn about a real OS, ask nicely withn' >an open mind, and we will try to help.j  B Thanks, if it should happen that I have occasion to use VMS in the* future, I'll probably take you up on that.   -- ,3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."g+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.g! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacer   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 21 Feb 03 11:36:48 GMTi From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly * Message-ID: <b355g7$38$5@bob.news.rcn.net>  8 In article <o7ub5v8p17akp99qrl9broqlk1fpdligh5@4ax.com>,8    Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:< >On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:52:23 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,2 >rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote: > : >>On Wed, 19 Feb 03 13:06:36 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>< >>>I was known as the den mother of TOPS-10.  I worked with < >>>two guys who were known as The TOPS-10 gurus, JMF and TW. >> >>Cool.r >>6 >>>TW's definition of a Real Computer was based on its> >>>price, namely, "You can tell the difference between the men= >>>and the boys by the price of their toys."  Given that thiss; >>>was a generic statement and not sexist, I worked on real  >>>computers.  Yours is wimpy. >>G >>Mmm, didn't a VAX 6230 cost a fair chunk of change back in the 1980s?0F >>But certainly since I finished college I haven't worked on a machine+ >>with a price tag longer than four digits.u >)> >You don't get double digit processors for four digit prices! = >You need a few hundred K to get yourself a "real computer".     Hundred?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.R   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:26:08 GMTn0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh0 Message-ID: <3e561a14.469520114@news.eircom.net>  D On 20 Feb 2003 21:09:02 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  D >	How about a preferance?  Marty prefers to killfile Russell.  ThereB >	is the whole matter of mental anguish and folks get divorced for >	"mental anguish."u   *lol*t  E Well, if Marty finds my views are so far opposed to his own that they B cause him severe mental anguish, I think killfiling me is the best solution to the problem.  D As for Marty's rhetorical question: I think it self-evident that theF "guilty" referred to in my signature are those who have done evil, notB those whom the government has decided to attack for the "crime" of being too successful.t   --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply.o! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace-   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:22:03 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)SQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyM- Message-ID: <b355lb$h2o$1@shell.monmouth.com>n  F In article <b35573$38$4@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote: >lB >That's not the real problem (it's a problem but let me finish).  > >NT got trashed because the Windows philosphy doesn't separate@ >the exec mode from user mode.  I heard that this was one battle >Cutler fought and lost.   >D >/BAHS >L  H I believe it's not the user mode separation from exec mode -- since it'sI pretty VAX/VMS like in that respect... IIRC v3.1 had the graphics processrE for the Win3.1 like display running as a task but in order to get thetD performance needed for stuff like office MS put the graphics driversH and graphics processes in kernel mode -- which means every badly written4 video driver can go off and whack the system's mind.  C At least in Unix when XFree86 on my BSD box blows chunks I can justLE restart it... and the Solaris box is pretty solid since Sun's had 10+aE years to get the bugs out of their X stuff for the CG6 graphics card.i   Bill   -- 2M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        | M |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |sN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:32:52 -0500* From: Greg Menke <gregm-news@toadmail.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyD* Message-ID: <m3n0kpg6ff.fsf@europa.pienet>   rmk@rmkhome.com writes:h  F > In alt.folklore.computers Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote: > F > > Any sort of numbers like that will be badly biased by the relativeE > > popularity of the  OSes.  Unix code with exploitable bugs will belI > > reported as being a Linux bug, even if everything from AT&T Version 6 F > > to Solaris could be hacked by it.  Likewise, anything so  platformI > > independent it could be used to exploit both Unix and Windows will be  > > reported as a Windows bug. > N > Very different than that. One particular point that is used to differentiateJ > different Linux distributions is the number if CDROMs of "stuff" that itF > contains. Much of this "stuff" is crap, and also present in a lot ofK > different distributions. First one distribution reports a bug or securitynM > hole, and the other follow right along like dominos falling over. Since notnL > all distributions are not the same, the consumer must wait for the fix for > his pile of "stuff". > : > A Linux distribution is a kernel plus a pile of "stuff".  F Why does a consumer need to wait?  If they desire convienence and wish> not to be involved, perhaps- but nothing is stopping them from1 compiling their own version of the fixed "stuff".a   Gregmi   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 21 Feb 03 12:00:51 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.comeQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh+ Message-ID: <b356t9$38$10@bob.news.rcn.net>   0 In article <3e550aee.400095011@news.eircom.net>,4    rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) wrote:9 >On Thu, 20 Feb 03 11:22:06 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:1 >4B >>You really need to brush up on the history.  Gates pulled the NT >>funding for the Alphas.a >-C >Nevermind the history, I remember reading the announcements at theeG >time it happened. The two companies had a conversation along the linesl >of: >h. >"Hey, nobody's buying NT on Alpha, are they?"G >"No, no they're not. So we don't want to pay for maintaining a product+ >nobody's buying."+ >"Well we don't want to pay for it either."tD >"Oh well, guess we'd better announce it's being discontinued then." >dF What do you mean "maintaining"?  He pulled the fucking development!!!!  @ You really do need to begin to learn about how the work is done.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.k   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:27:12 GMTc' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>bQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyW) Message-ID: <3E564FD5.5A22C8B0@yahoo.com>h   Brian Inglis wrote:  > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >  ... snip ... > E > >You don't have to be a specialist in order to accept the fact thatTB > >you can't put your horse before the car and expect to go 70MPH. > + > I can if I'm in the car behind the horse!   ? Picturing surprised looking horse straddling the hood with earst? laid back, and a certain Brian Inglis driving on cruise control ; standing up with the sun-roof open.  Probably needs to wearv goggles.  $ What do you do when the horse farts?   --  < Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.r:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:27:20 +0000 (UTC) 8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyi. Message-ID: <b35k18$1idc$7@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  G In article <b35747$38$11@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:h/ >In article <b32tcr$1daq$4@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>,I= >   hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote:x   >>I've also used it in anyC >>number of cross-os applications, including macbsd, linux, ultrix,,) >><insert dec's flavor of the week here>,   A >Alas,  it (flavor of the week) did get to that point, didn't it?h  E Pretty much.  At Iowas State, they kept "upgrading" the workstations, H meaning a) the OS had a new name, and b) it didn't have the memory, cpu,8 or disk to handle tasks that worked just fine last week.   hawk --  K Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaigncG dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailsD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:38:07 +0000 (UTC)28 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolye. Message-ID: <b35klf$1idc$9@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  8 In article <62pb5v0g0okalus8idmhpb3q7nue7fqrgi@4ax.com>,6 Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:: >On Wed, 19 Feb 03 10:59:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:y  D >>You don't have to be a specialist in order to accept the fact thatA >>you can't put your horse before the car and expect to go 70MPH.P  + >I can if I'm in the car behind the horse!    E My '83 Cougar died with 99,960 miles on it.  Yes, short of my 100k byaE just 40.  I probably would have fixed it again if we weren't about toaG leave for grad school.  Unfortunately, we didn't have time for my other F plan:  rent a Clyesdale, pop it in neutral, and sit on the roof for 40 miles . . .    hawk   -- tK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaign$G dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mail D These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:49:08 -0000aD From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyw1 Message-ID: <1045846145.65327@saucer.planet.gong>h  6 "Joe Pfeiffer" <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote in message" news:1by94efbbo.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu... > rmk@rmkhome.com writes:N >A* > > In alt.folklore.computers Brooks Moses) <bmoses-usenet@cits1.stanford.edu> wrote:  > > H > > > My suspicion is that a large number -- not all, but many -- of theB > > > problems that people seem to have with Windows come from the
 competenceL > > > of the sysadmin, and that if the same sysadmins were running any otherK > > > OS en masse, that other OS would have similar problems.  All it wouldoK > > > take is a few Kazaa-like apps that "need to be installed as root"....nK > > > And a .bashrc-infecting virus shouldn't be that hard to make, either;p > > > who'd notice it? > > E > > Take a look at the bugtraq mailing list or www.securityfocus.com.d > >y% > > Worst OS - any version of WindowsA > > 2nd Worst OS - Linux( > > And then everything else after that. >nD > Any sort of numbers like that will be badly biased by the relativeC > popularity of the  OSes.  Unix code with exploitable bugs will be G > reported as being a Linux bug, even if everything from AT&T Version 6 D > to Solaris could be hacked by it.  Likewise, anything so  platformG > independent it could be used to exploit both Unix and Windows will bel > reported as a Windows bug.  < AFAICT that's not the case with bugtraq. Such a bug would be: reported as a "Unix" and a "Windows" bug and would show in= both of those aggregate tallies. They don't double count bugsv in aggregate tallies either.  J > > Windows, by the nature of it's GUI interface, even hides problems from > > the sysadmin.a > G > This is very, very true, and very poor.  Trying to diagnose a problem  > with no logs to look at...  > Not the case for all software. The Event Log was actually very= useful in the NT 3.51 days, and I notice that a hell of a loth> of software actually writes it's own log files... To be honest< I'd prefer it if MS had managed to make a centralised Syslog+ type mechanism such as the Event Log stick.n     Cheers,r Rupert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:28:24 -0000e- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>cQ Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1F7@tahiti.tinuk.com>e   With any luck - accelerate!t   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200n [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131n
 www.torex.com&   >>-----Original Message-----3 >>From: CBFalconer [mailto:cbfalconer@yahoo.com]=20, >>Sent: 21 February 2003 16:27 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come< >>Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft=20 >>Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly- >> >> >>Brian Inglis wrote:  >>> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>>=20 >>... snip ... >>>=20J >>> >You don't have to be a specialist in order to accept the fact that=20D >>> >you can't put your horse before the car and expect to go 70MPH. >>>=20- >>> I can if I'm in the car behind the horse!a >>? >>Picturing surprised looking horse straddling the hood with=20tA >>ears laid back, and a certain Brian Inglis driving on cruise=20s@ >>control standing up with the sun-roof open.  Probably needs=20 >>to wear goggles. >>& >>What do you do when the horse farts? >> >>--=20U> >>Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)= >>   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.l< >>   <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address! >> >> >>   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 12:48:05 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)mQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyn- Message-ID: <b35ool$42d$1@shell.monmouth.com>w  1 In article <1045846145.65327@saucer.planet.gong>,rC Rupert Pigott <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:l > ? >Not the case for all software. The Event Log was actually veryd> >useful in the NT 3.51 days, and I notice that a hell of a lot? >of software actually writes it's own log files... To be honest = >I'd prefer it if MS had managed to make a centralised Syslogt, >type mechanism such as the Event Log stick. >i >Cheers, >Ruperta  @ Event Log seems to me to have it's root in VAX/VMS Error Logging subsystems.o  G The only problem with it is it continues to use "interesting" names fort" subsystems that fail like Sparrow.  H The Sparrow subsystem has failed should (IIRC) have been labeled the IDEH CD drive subsystem has failed (or was Sparrow their name for the Adaptec
 SCSI one...).k  . The problem was a misjumpered IDE device IIRC.  F Took a while to find out what Sparrow was back in 94 or so... Think it" was WinNT 3.51 I was working with.   Bill   --  M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+-M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |iM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |sN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:49:49 +0000i/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)eQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh) Message-ID: <dbl53b.pt2.ln@teabag.cbhnet>s  " According to  <jmfbahciv@aol.com>:H > What do you mean "maintaining"?  He pulled the fucking development!!!! > B > You really do need to begin to learn about how the work is done.  A I never quite figured out why DEC got themselves involved in whattD was obvious even at the time a bloody stupid partnership.  MicrosoftD was clearly intent on bleeding DEC dry for free technology, and theyE must've been rubbing their hands together with glee when they managedhG to persuade some halfwit at DEC to actually pay them for the privilege.-G And once the parasite had fed all it wanted it'd simply cut itself free,G from its host.  Even I, as a lowly programmer, saw that one a mile off,.B so why couldn't the suits[1]?  That was, I think, one of the final nails in the coffin.  @ [1] Okay, I know now, it's because they were parasites just likeA     Microsoft and had no interest in the long-term future of DEC.nF     The outrageous salaries and bonuses meant they weren't too worried     about a long-term position.    Chris. -- 4O "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84eA   Currently playing: Hawkwind - various Bridget Wishart-era stuffnN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:43:18 +0100., From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolB7 Message-ID: <20030221124318.510f7e6e.steveo@eircom.net>s    On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:31:47 GMT5 Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:b  D BI> On 19 Feb 2003 10:46:15 +0100 in alt.folklore.computers, Andreas* BI> Eder <Andreas.Eder@t-online.de> wrote:  C BI> >Coke in drinking and McDonalds in eating are probably the best@( BI> >equivalent to Windows in computing." BI> >I much prefer the real stuff. BI> + BI> You prefer Jolt, Wendy's, and a shell? 0  = 	For me make it fresh coffee, home cooking ... and a shell :)b   -- uD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:46:19 +01001, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopolp7 Message-ID: <20030221124619.328ed810.steveo@eircom.net>     On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:33:53 GMT5 Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:t  = BI> On Wed, 19 Feb 03 10:59:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,e BI> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:G BI> >You don't have to be a specialist in order to accept the fact thatsD BI> >you can't put your horse before the car and expect to go 70MPH. BI> . BI> I can if I'm in the car behind the horse!   ; 	Do not try this in Newmarket, Kentucky or the Curragh yourc@ insurance may not be enough to cover the damages to the horse :)   -- bD C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:03:00 +0100D, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly monopol 7 Message-ID: <20030221180300.576ff680.steveo@eircom.net>e   On Fri, 21 Feb 03 11:59:18 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  E JC> Yup.  Now notice what Gates funded in Apple, then apply a deja vu:C JC> since he can't seem to stop his business practices.  Since he's,B JC> moved off to a sideline, it may not happen (but then I've been  JC> accused of being too naive).  < 	The corporate hammerlock is being moved over from Office toJ Exchange and OutLook - with the calendar services and virus filter optionsE as the hooks. Oh and of course nobody understands sendmail, while anys. idiot can (and often does) configure Exchange.   -- 0D C:>WIN                                      |     Directable MirrorsJ The computer obeys and wins.                |A Better Way To Focus The SunH You lose and Bill collects.                 |  licenses available - see:F                                             |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:25:16 GMTt4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>P Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly8 Message-ID: <cgvb5v8ltn2qro14jve4s9o9qur3e7vmsl@4ax.com>  @ On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:56:04 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, JF. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Also one big question:m > N >There are a few features of X which seem to be common with Windows 3.1. Did X, >inspire itself from Windwos or vice-versa ?  : Windows 3/3.1? borrowed just about everything from Motif. = My current CDE desktop looks just like Windows 3, but nicer. :  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, CanadaI -- nF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com >B abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:33:37 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")P Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly6 Message-ID: <00A1BCDA.19B9318F@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  o In article <cgvb5v8ltn2qro14jve4s9o9qur3e7vmsl@4ax.com>, Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> writes:oA >On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:56:04 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, JF / >Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:s >  >>Also one big question: >>O >>There are a few features of X which seem to be common with Windows 3.1. Did Xi- >>inspire itself from Windwos or vice-versa ?a >n; >Windows 3/3.1? borrowed just about everything from Motif. )> >My current CDE desktop looks just like Windows 3, but nicer.   L You might notice where Motif came from.  If memory serves - and it may not -L it was a submission to OSF based on the OS/2 Presentation Manager.  It's not= surprising that a PC windowing interface should look like it.a   -- Alan     O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056gM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025:O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:32:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).P Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBMmonopoly3 Message-ID: <j8DXUW2ve0mG@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  ` In article <005301c2d958$0ded9a60$a77ba8c0@artb>, "Art Beane" <art.beane@mindspring.com> writes:# > IIRC, the predecessor to X was W.3  D    Yep.  And I never saw any X earlier than X10, but did they exist?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:15:35 -0500i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Interesting article about IBM2 Message-ID: <jc6cnQKNEvVd4MijXTWcoA@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message; news:7tc4a.2$OVn1.0@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...dH > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&ncid=1208&e=10&u=/nf/20030213/b > s_nf/20760&sid=95573658C >dE > Digital certainly would have been mentioned in earlier times in thebF > same breath as IBM, perhaps even the 'old' HP. But certainly not the > 'New HP'.   B Other aspects are interesting as well, such as the sections headedH "Diversity Equals Survival" and "Don't Just Sell - Shape", both of whichL approaches seem directly opposite to HPQ's - as, of course, is the idea that research pays off.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:29:55 +0800c) From: Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com>s- Subject: Is there a way to FTP a locked file?e8 Message-ID: <48hb5vgd4b9raiji32ohu8loiefdf14o4f@4ax.com>  O Thinking for FTP my Oracle datafile to a local server (same segment) instead of  the regular DLT Tape drive.a   Sample DCL scripts:i ================== $svrmgrl connect internal" alter tablespace USR begin backup; exit5 $ COPY/FTP/LOG USR.DBF myftpserver"login password"::.d $svrmgrl connect internal  alter tablespace USR end backup; exit ==================   Keep hitting this error:-d/ %FTP-E-OPNINP, Error opening USR.DBF; for inputa1 -RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another userh  
 Any solution?aO The remedy I can think of is, using BACKUP to make a duplicate of the file, andaJ then FTP the duplicated file. It will work but it not efficient doing so. ? I don't have NFS or Pathworks installed, running OVMS 7.1 ECO9.r   Regards,  	 Kevin Laie   **************** ** SPAM BLOCK ** ****************? REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:58:41 GMTR0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing00 Message-ID: <3e51066e.136759691@news.eircom.net>  ? On 17 Feb 2003 07:16:07 -0800, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Suee Skonetski) wrote:e  G >Nothing important just wondering how everyone is.  We are about to getdG >another 15-18 inches of snow, we have had snow since October and cabind >fever has set in.  E Sympathies! While I was remarking today that I wouldn't mind a bit oflF snow (we don't really get any in Ireland), I can see four months of it would definitely be a bit much.s   >Please take care of your self.h > 	 >Big hug,m   You too!   -- a3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."G+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.g! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallacea   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:59:58 -0500l' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>a+ Subject: RE: Madison, successor to McKinleyoT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DA6@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  / On the topic of Itanium and power consumption --  A http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030220S0049 - February 21, 2003c  A San Jose -- Intel Corp. Thursday disclosed that a new Low Voltage-G Itanium 2 processor, code-named Deerfield, will be introduced in 2H '03eB to compete head-on with Sun Microsystems in the entry level 64-bit server platforms..  H Mike Fister, senior vice president and general manager of the enterpriseD platforms group, said Deerfield will operate with 62 watts, half theA power consumption but the same performance level of the mid-gradetD existing Itanium 2 processors. The chip will have 1GHz frequency and 1.5Megabytes of L3 cache. "c  A The LV Itanium 2 was part of an expanded server processor roadmapcE discussed at the Intel Developers Forum here. Lisa Graff, director of0D enterprise processor marketing, said Deerfield is targeted at 64-bitG servers in the $5,000 to $7,000 platform price range, an area which sheyF conceded Sun Microsystems has greater than a 50% market share. "The LVH Itanium 2 increases competitiveness with Sun in the entry RISC processor market," she added.=20  $ [snip - see url for rest of article]   Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantx Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services, Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)e OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMC       -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20  Sent: February 20, 2003 11:09 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<+ Subject: Re: Madison, successor to McKinleyM      > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0302201720.4880d3cf@posting.google.com...t> > From EE Times, http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030210S0027 >aE > "Intel's new Itanium 2 entry, code-named Madison, has one of the=20oF > largest on-chip caches ever reported: roughly 6 Mbytes of Level 3=20F > cache, or twice the L3 size of the McKinley processor promoted at=20F > ISSCC 2002. The 410 million-transistor Madison is manufactured in=20E > 130-nanometer CMOS and clocks at 1.5 GHz. It will outperform the=20>H > McKinley processor - which is built with 180-nm geometries, has 221=20H > million transistors and clocks at 1 GHz - by 30 percent to 50 percent. >mC > Despite the increased size and processing power, Madison meets=20aE > Gelsinger's challenge to raise performance without increasing poweraD > consumption: Power draw for McKinley and Madison, both aimed at=20% > servers, is on the order of 130 W."i  G Hmmm.  Sounds as if either Terry misstated the 160 W power drain or wasa3 quoting a peak figure vs. a 'typical' figure above.e   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 03:30:02 -08009 From: helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig)aG Subject: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600 < Message-ID: <917991b.0302210330.6319a70f@posting.google.com>  @ I have a nice DEC 3000/600 (21064 ALPHA) with 192 MB and (still)A VMS 7.2-1.  It works fine, except occasionally after power up thewA self-test gives a memory error.  Power-cycling always solves thishC problem ($ SET HAMMER/SIZE=BIG).  Actually, the last few times I'verF turned it on, I haven't seen this anymore, but have almost always seenB another problem I had seen before, namely a bugcheck dump with the; PROCGONE error.  Typing >>> BOOT always solve this problem.y  > First question: what could be the cause of these two problems.  0 Second question: are these two problems related?  G Third question: Could these problems be solved by leaving the power on?a  B The third question is quite important.  Since I have one flat withD VMS machines (and peripherals) running all the time, I would like toD save some power costs and in the other flat only switch the stuff onI when I need it, which is just to log in to the other flat, mostly.  WoulddE folks generally advise against this, i.e. should I leave the power on-G all the time?  If I do so, I will also have to leave the BA350 with the G (system) disk(s) switched on as well, so it is not just the ALPHA powerd which is a concern.s  D At least I can turn of the |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| 21" monitor and the VT320C console when they are not needed.  (Fortunately, on my ALPHAs I can D switch off the console.  On my VAXes, this always halts the systems.  D (Yes, a lean, mean DS10 with enough internal disks (easily removableD from the front panel) for the needs of this "X-terminal" would be a G better option, but I haven't seen machines this new for free yet.  Even I if I have to leave the power on, I would still pay less than the price ofd
 a used DS10.)*    F What about setting auto_action to halt instead of boot?  Would lettingH the machine rest a bit after power up perhaps prevent the bugcheck dump?F At the moment, booting by hand after the bugcheck dump seems to alwaysF work.  (And if I switch the machine on only when I am present, I don't need AUTO_ACTION=BOOT anyway.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:48:23 -0500t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)K Subject: Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600iL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2102030748240001@user-uinj4bg.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <917991b.0302210330.6319a70f@posting.google.com>,: helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) wrote:  A >I have a nice DEC 3000/600 (21064 ALPHA) with 192 MB and (still)lB >VMS 7.2-1.  It works fine, except occasionally after power up theB >self-test gives a memory error.  Power-cycling always solves this# >problem ($ SET HAMMER/SIZE=BIG).  ,   >>> SET DIAG_SECTION 2 >>> REPEAT TEST MEMl  G This will loop until a memory error occurs, and will give more detailedv7 info about the error.  Capture the output, if possible.d  F If you get memory errors while VMS is up, they should be logged in theI error log file.  I think you'll need DECEVENT (DIGANOSE) to translate theaF error log file to the "old" format, and then ANALYZE/ERROR will (IIRC)D give complete tranlation of any memory errors on the DEC 3000 seriesF systems.  DIAGNOSE may be able to do the translation directly; I'm not sure.u  I Are the memory test errors correctable or uncorrectable?  Once VMS is up,h* you will ride right over corrected errors.  H Memory errors can originate anywhere in the memory path, from the memoryF chips to the CPU itself.  A SIMM is the part that needs replacing most often.  G Removing accumulated dust, unplugging and replugging the SIMMs and MMBsM& can also cure transient memory errors.  ! > ... but have almost always seenpC >another problem I had seen before, namely a bugcheck dump with they< >PROCGONE error.  Typing >>> BOOT always solve this problem. >t? >First question: what could be the cause of these two problems.  >t1 >Second question: are these two problems related?@  ' Possible, but I don't think too likely.e  G Are you getting crash dumps?  If so, CLUE CRASH and SHOW CRASH (in SDA)SJ often give useful indications.  Also, for crashes during boot, you may getH useful info on the console by setting the boot flags to 0,20000 (or even	 0,30000).   H >Third question: Could these problems be solved by leaving the power on?  G Well, if you leave the power on, you won't have to boot, so that solvesi@ the PROCGONE problem.  And cycling the power is stressful on theI electronics.  The system is getting old, and cycling the power can't help J but shorten its life.  The power supply itself is often the first thing to fail.l    G >What about setting auto_action to halt instead of boot?  Would lettingyI >the machine rest a bit after power up perhaps prevent the bugcheck dump?fG >At the moment, booting by hand after the bugcheck dump seems to always0G >work.  (And if I switch the machine on only when I am present, I don'tc >need AUTO_ACTION=BOOT anyway.  H Maybe you have a disk that doesn't spin up fast enough, and an I/O times@ out?  The first try spins up the disk and fails, the second bootJ succeeds?   Just a guess.  There is a console variable to adjust the delayF after SCSI bus initialization.  I've only heard of it mattering for CD drives.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:38:31 +0100 (MET)r9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>nK Subject: Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600s; Message-ID: <01KSPBQQUVTW9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  G > Are the memory test errors correctable or uncorrectable?  Once VMS ist1 > up, you will ride right over corrected errors. o  % Once VMS is up, I notice no problems.   E > Maybe you have a disk that doesn't spin up fast enough, and an I/O eH > times out?  The first try spins up the disk and fails, the second boot succeeds?   Just a guess.     I I thought about this, but since the disks are much newer than the system r6 itself, I considered it unlikely.  Still, worth a try.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:53:45 -0800: From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)1 Subject: Re: Need help passing text to executable = Message-ID: <7f15589f.0302210753.29a35649@posting.google.com>    winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") wrote in message news:<00A1BC90.832B06B9@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>...f > In article <Xns932862EE6D3A7riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.98>, Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> writes:K > >I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text file h5 > >and redefining sys$input using the typical format:  > >h( > >$ define/user sys$input text_file.txt& > >$ define/user sys$command sys$input > >$ run program.exe > >d$ > >text_file.txt contains stuff like > >  > >hello
 > >goodbye > >12345
 > ><ESC>[S > >  > >aK > >    	Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed correctly  J > >to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user to press F > >the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button. So the problem is how to develope the L > >correct escape sequences in a text file to pass. Remember, this is a raw G > >text file and cannot contain any DCL commands or symbols. Also, the  K > >executable program uses SMG for I/O, if this has anything to do with it.  > >s. > >    	Any help would be greatly appreciated, > Q > I don't think you can do exactly what you're trying to do the way you're trying-B > to do, for the reason Arne suggests: SMG can't read from a file.  C This is not strictly true.  The docs to SMG$CREATE_VIRTUAL_KEYBOARD F say "If input-device does not refer to a terminal, the file  is openedC using RMS and all further access to that file is performed  through.D RMS."  Whether SMG$READ_COMPOSED_LINE would treat control charactersF occurring in the file as if they had been type at the keyboard I don'tF know, but it shouldn't be too hard to try it out using the examples in the SMG$ manual.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 13:08:20 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: ODS-2 read/write filesystem for Linux ?6 Message-ID: <b358c3$1ipmtl$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  & In article <3E5508BF.D19A1AB2@hp.com>,) 	Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com> writes:rF > I don't think anyone's using Linux for development anymore. The onlyE > thing I know of that's not built on VMS (using cross-compilers) at fD > this point is the VMS loader program, which is an EFI application. >   A You know, considering how much time the people here spend bashingo= Linux (which it well deserves, but I digress) it really seemsi? funny that you needed it to do the port of VMS to Itanium.  :-)f   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 17 Feb 2003 10:04:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0 and MACRO Assembler3 Message-ID: <pvT3HOWVIDya@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  j In article <1b0eb888.0302160930.25d9624d@posting.google.com>, d_cymbal@hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) writes: > Hi Folks,h > F > I assume it is considered to be part of the base OS, but I wanted to > confirm before I purchased:t > F > Does the OpenVMS VAX Hobbyist Kit V3.0 CD include MACRO Assembler as$ > part of its compiler/language set?  K   It's in there.  It ships as part of the base OS and it would be too much     work to take it out.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:33:28 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaiu8 Message-ID: <9rkc5vk7db337ehb4turfs7ddal0n2m0od@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:35:01 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyd. <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:     > = >If you want another nail to the GS160 perfromance lie coffin-< >then look no further than your own TPC-C benchmark results. >c= >A GS140 with 8 x 700 MHz CPU's posted a result of 42,437 TPM > >A GS160 with 16 x 731 MHz CPU's posted a result of 55,221 TPM >4E >It doesn't take a genius to work out that this isn't a demonstrationr) >that the NUMA architecture is effective.v >o  E If my applications were TPC-C benchmarks, I might actually care about " that.  Since they're not, I don't.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:42:05 -0000p3 From: "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk>a1 Subject: Re: Opinion of Quanta Training in the UKs3 Message-ID: <1aGdnWdWY50LssijXTWcrg@brightview.com>a   Steve,  < Can't comment on Quanta, I've always used CSF who are tops !   Cheers,    Jeff  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1ED@tahiti.tinuk.com...oC If anyone in the UK has used the services of QUANTA in any of their-G training, would they like to share their experience with me, as they'ven@ been put forward as a company for Tru64/VMS/etc training for new employees here.    Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131b
 www.torex.com>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:41:50 -0500d' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>R( Subject: RE: Oracle on OpenVMS on MarvelT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DA5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,   D >>> No benchmarks, though:  can't do anything that might make Itanic look bad.>>>  4 Not sure if you saw this SAP info, but just in case-( http://www.sap.com/benchmark/sd2tier.asp  C Sun Fire 15K: 1,789,000 dialog steps per hr. - 72 CPU's, Oracle 9i.dD Alpha GS 1280: 1,393,000 dialog steps per hr. - 32 CPU's, Oracle 9i.  E Considering Oracle typically charges per cpu, the GS1280 looks prettyc good.w   :-)d   Regards8  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)2 OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----2 From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20  Sent: February 20, 2003 11:13 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms( Subject: Re: Oracle on OpenVMS on Marvel      > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0302201844.55bbd6fc@posting.google.com...1H > There's a neat new brochure about Oracle on OpenVMS (and Tru64) on the  ( > latest (Marvel) Alphaserver systems at >dH http://www.hp.com/solutions1/oracle/downloads/alphaserver_systems_brochu re_0	 12003.pdfH  E No benchmarks, though:  can't do anything that might make Itanic lookw bad.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:44:42 +0100t0 From: Nigel Barker <nigel@removetomailme@hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Probleme with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-18 Message-ID: <1gec5v0c02g0n5quvcpidhopps6rnkni4g@4ax.com>  J On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:16:25 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  L >Where PTHREAD is not listed in the JAVA doc as a requirement (but installedM >here anyway ;-) but ACRTL wants SYS-V0200 and that is dangerous/malicious...  >XI >Nigel: Do you have a recommendation for us on this JAVA/SYS-V0200 case ?   P Ahhh. SYS-V0200 not recommended for uniprocessor systems. The official answer isO to wait for SYS-V0300 (out real soon now). The unofficial answer is that I haveyL had it installed on my uniprocessor workstation for months without problems.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur"   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:44:40 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)r3 Subject: Re: Questions about simh & OpenVMS installr- Message-ID: <b35ag8$knd$1@shell.monmouth.com>t  = In article <eebf2e9b.0302200132.38c156e3@posting.google.com>,a0 Robert Lawrence <robl@no-no-badpuppy.com> wrote:C >I am wondering if simh can read the actual OpenVMS CDs?  I know toeB >install OpenVMS on a VAX, you need a 512-byte block friendly SCSI8 >CD-ROM.  Will a cheap IDE CD-ROM work for the emulator? >a >Thanks. >d >Robert J. Lawrenceo    ? The way to get around this is to use either some Unix somewheretF or something like Nero/Roxio CD Record software to take the disk imageG and store it as a disk image file and mount that and boot that with thev emulator software.   Bill --  M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ M | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |xM |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |eN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:13:18 -0500w' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov>d; Subject: Re: Quirk using SYSMAN and Create/Terminal=DECTERMh, Message-ID: <b35c5u$8ji$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>  < "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message7 news:754a27c1.0302201651.7d2cde23@posting.google.com...h4 > "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov> wrote in message( news:<b33a6g$hd5$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>...I > > Another system manager at our site has a local command procedure thats usesF > > sysman to execute a command procedure on a remote node to create a dectermwL > > window on her x-terminal connected to the remote node.  To reproduce theH > > problem, the commands in her remote command procedure can be reduced down ton > > the following two commands:- > >-H > > $ set display/create/node=<ip address of x-terminal>/transport=tcpip* > > $ create/terminal=decterm/detach/big -B > > /window_attributes=(initial_state=icon,title="window title", -0 > > icon_name="icon name",background=powderblue) > >FI > > The first time these commands are executed through sysman, everythingi workssH > > correctly.  She receives a decterm window with the display correctlyK > > defined.  However, if she tries to create a second decterm window usingf thisL > > procedure on the same remote node (different nodes do not have a problem asE > > long as it is the first connection to that node), when the sysmanv
 command isJ > > terminated (i.e., the remote command procedure completes), the displayF > > device (WSAxxx:) is deleted.  I demonstrated this by adding a wait command K > > at the end of the remote procedure and performing show display commandsg inF > > the new window when it was created.  This leaves her with a window	 without aiL > > working display set.  The window can be used as a VT type window, but inH > > order to do any x-windows, she has to perform the set display/create again.E > > I could understand this if the first instance behaved the same as 
 subsequentH > > attaches, but the first attach works fine without losing the display device. K > > I have also replicated the problem using DECnet as the transport.  Thisl has.K > > been demonstrated on several different hardware platforms (both VAX and-L > > Alpha) and VMS versions, but the primary one is AlphaServer 4100 running VMSr+ > > V7.2-2.  The IP stack is Multinet V4.4.d > >y8 > > The sysman command procedure can be reduced down to: > >5 > > $ mcr sysman& > > set environment/node=<remote_node>  > > do @remote_command_procedure > >t > >o@ > > Thanks for any insight to this problem that you can provide. >  > K > Try removing the "/CREATE" switch from subsequent "SET DISPLAY" commands.aL Thanks for the response, but this did not work.  The second attach now givesJ the following errors after the set display command and the create/terminal command:  5 %DECW-W-OPENOUT, error opening DECW$DISPLAY as output,- -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHDEV, no such device availables   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:42:31 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s2 Subject: Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR3 Message-ID: <c1ZwtzNpI9TZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  j In article <1fe424ce.0302200653.7d343c69@posting.google.com>, b.seghers@europe.com (Seghers Bruno) writes: > Hi,  >  > A small little question :t > H > I have installed a system from the CD (VMS 7.3-1) and I want to renameB > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR to SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS7.DIR > G > The system is the first one of a futur cluster. I specified it at the| > installation > @ > I will boot on the CD again, mount the system disk, rename theD > directory, shutdown the system, modify the boot_osflags to 7,0 and' > reboot the system on the system disk.  >   ?    Looks good to me, but why do yu want the first node to be 7?-4    Why not just let it start at 0 like VMS wants to?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:22:02 -0000i- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>y- Subject: RE: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit. E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1EF@tahiti.tinuk.com>a  4 Probably bad form to reply to your own posts, but...  B Yes, I have been told that this is now ALPSYSA20_071 but I was tooE tired, frazzled, and my internal SMP license seems to have expired sohE that I didn't even consider it may have changed its title in the lastd couple of years...   I think I need a holiday!l   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200s [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131t
 www.torex.como   >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Steve Spires=20e >>Sent: 20 February 2003 18:48 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd+ >>Subject: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.n >> >>A >>I'm trying to locate the patch kit ALPSYSA03_071 which seems=20u* >>to have disappeared from the HP website. >>5 >>Can anyone point me in the direction to find it...?e >> >>Cheers >> >>Steve Spires >>Technical Consultant >>Torex Health >>[T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  >>[F] +44 (0) 1295 275131n >>www.torex.comh >> >> >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:46:45 -0000 3 From: "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk>?- Subject: Re: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.a3 Message-ID: <yEKdnW-sGJc3rcijXTWcpQ@brightview.com>e   Steve,  5 I normally go here, but it's not on this site either;-  9 http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/version.htm0   Cheers,    Jeff    8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1EC@tahiti.tinuk.com...sD I'm trying to locate the patch kit ALPSYSA03_071 which seems to have  disappeared from the HP website.  3 Can anyone point me in the direction to find it...?e   Cheers   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200n [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131 
 www.torex.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:49:22 +0100o+ From: Thomas Schick <schick.thomas@gmx.net> - Subject: Re: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.?/ Message-ID: <b33ih6$odm$00$1@news.t-online.com>.   Jefferson Humber wrote:  > Steve, > 7 > I normally go here, but it's not on this site either;h > ; > http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/version.htmT   then use "Search ECOs" and you'll get this C "Note: ALPSYSA03_071 was superceded on 27-JUL-2000 by ALPSYS20_071"    Thomas   > 	 > Cheers,r >  > Jeff >  > : > "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in messageA > news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1EC@tahiti.tinuk.com...sF > I'm trying to locate the patch kit ALPSYSA03_071 which seems to have" > disappeared from the HP website. > 5 > Can anyone point me in the direction to find it...?  >  > Cheers >  > Steve Spires > Technical Consultant > Torex Health > [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200o > [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131b > www.torex.comt >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:47:23 -0000y- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>c- Subject: RE: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.aE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1F5@tahiti.tinuk.com>C   Really?c  ) I get this [searching for ALPSYSA03_071];m   Search for: =20)= Results per page:  102050 Output format:  LongShortURL Match:eF AllAnyBoolean Search for:  Whole wordBeginningEndingSubstring through:< Entire siteOpenVMSTru64UltrixWindowsNTUltrixReadmes in:  all( sectionsDescriptionKeywordsTitleBody =20   An error occured!=204 #1016: Can't open file: 'dict3.MYD'. (errno: 145)=20  F and have done so the last two days I've been looking [well, that's notF EXACTLY the whole error -=3D the bit under search is just what you get when cut'n'paste from IE].=20M   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131:
 www.torex.comi   >>-----Original Message-----7 >>From: Thomas Schick [mailto:schick.thomas@gmx.net]=20: >>Sent: 20 February 2003 21:49 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn/ >>Subject: Re: Seeking ALPSYSA03_071 patch kit.  >> >> >>Jefferson Humber wrote:u
 >>> Steve, >>>=209 >>> I normally go here, but it's not on this site either;O >>>=20= >>> http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/version.htmi >> >>then use "Search ECOs" >>and you'll get thisnE >>"Note: ALPSYSA03_071 was superceded on 27-JUL-2000 by ALPSYS20_071"c >> >>Thomas >> >>>=20 >>> Cheers,  >>>=20 >>> Jeff >>>=20 >>>=20? >>> "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message=20 C >>> news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1EC@tahiti.tinuk.com...l= >>> I'm trying to locate the patch kit ALPSYSA03_071 which=20  >>seems to have=20$ >>> disappeared from the HP website. >>>=207 >>> Can anyone point me in the direction to find it...?l >>>=20
 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Steve Spires >>> Technical Consultant >>> Torex Health >>> [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200  >>> [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131j >>> www.torex.coma >>>=20 >>>=20 >> >> >>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:23:39 GMT.9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>e& Subject: Re: stupid batch job question? Message-ID: <6946f4c74b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   2 In message <p+$cLHWLLLfe@eisner.encompasserve.org>F           koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:   > In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260F0F770@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>, Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> writes: > > Hi all,t8 > > I am trying to run a batch job from a subdirectory. < > > Assume home directory (sys$login) = dka100:[user.keshav] > > P > > Batch job is residing on DKA100:[USER.KESHAV.ORD] by name MY.COM;1. It calls
 > > MY.SQL;1.s > > L > > WHen I submit this job, it does a set default to sys$login and of courseL > > executes login.com. Since MY.SQL is not found there it returns an error.% > > What can be a workaround to this?  > G >   The batch job logs in, just the same as an interactive job logs in.sE >   You have to have everything in MY.COM that you need starting fromS
 >   login. >     A fairly clean way to do this is  ; $ SUBMIT MY.COM /QUE=<QUE_NAME> /PARAMETER=("[.ORD]MY.SQL").   then in MY.COM   $ @'P1'   L You could, maybe should use a full file path, rather than the relative one -L it depends on other factors which works best for you. Factors like does this need to run for multiple users?    Alan   -- 1
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:44:03 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e Subject: Re: SYSUAF Proxyo3 Message-ID: <L3WhFNKez8r7@eisner.encompasserve.org>O  b In article <3E552158.F7D7AEC0@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:D >>    If you really want to use DECnet, be very carefull of security% >>    issues, and yes it can be done.  > P > Wouldn't one have to setup some extensive DECNET proxies to have SYSUAF reside) > on another node ? (one for each user ?)S  C    There are lots of seciurity issues, including requiring either a=F    privileged user's name and password in the logical name or procxies'    for all users, including privileged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:56:04 +0800B/ From: "Fred Jiang" <fred.jiang@tianjin.mot.com>y4 Subject: Re: telnet timeout/hang vms7.3-1, tcpip 5.3+ Message-ID: <b34m4c$51a$1@newshost.mot.com>   J Try to significant increase parameters value of "channelcnt". Lets say two times of original value.  6 "Jeff Anicker" <anickerj@comcast.net> wrote in message7 news:977914c8.0302202059.43fe1af2@posting.google.com...-F > I recently upgraded 2 alpha 8400's to vms 7.3-1 with tcpip 5.3 eco 2E > from vms 7.3, tcpip 5.1.  I am now faced with an elusive issue withaF > some telnet sessions becoming frozen.  The user logs out and back inG > and they are then fine.  The issue seems to arise most often when theiC > users leave their telnet session idle for some time.  However, nonH > specific time has been measured.  I'm not entirely sure if the user isH > actually having their telnet session logged out or if they find it notH > responding and then log out themselves by closing the session.  I haveF > not been able to reproduce the error and user reports would indicateG > both scenarios.  There are also conflicting reports of slowness sincep$ > the upgrade with these users only. >-@ > The only lead I currently have is that this only appears to beH > happening to external customers (at multiple locations) who connect toA > us through dedicated circuit lines that run through a cisco pix B > firewall.  We have thoroughly checked out the firewall, routers,G > circuits and switch that these customers connect to and have found nomE > errors nor have any changes been made to their configurations.  Thep) > firewall was rebooted for good measure.  >eF > It does not appear to be a physical disconnect as I can continuouslyE > ping a user without losing a packet when they experience the issue.sG > In at least one instance I could still see the session of the user as:@ > active on the system and it showed connected using the netstatE > command.  Also the users in the same location do not experience thecE > disconnects at the same time.  If it were a network related issue InA > would expect to see multiple users in the same location gettingo  > disconnected at the same time. >tG > I contacted HP support and they did not believe it could be a timeout*E > setting and only advised to do packet sniffing.  Due to the extremerG > randomness of the problem packet sniffing would seem like a needle ine
 > a haystack.0 >1F > I recently read that upgrading the firmware may cause settings to beE > reset on the ethernet device.  I did upgrade the firware but do not9D > see that the device settings have changed in comparison to anotherD > alpha that was not upgraded.  Also, the maxbuf parameter is set atA > 8192, another item I read that can be an issue if set too high.  >sD > Has anyone experienced similar issues?  Does anyone have advice onA > troubleshooting techniques for this?  If any further info I cano- > provide will be helpful please let me know.I   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 12:59:55 -0600; From: kaplow_r@eisner.encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow)a Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSr3 Message-ID: <+eJuAUV3cFCx@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  b In article <3E54604D.B2B9A6D7@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Highly Theoretical Question: > M > If Intel abandons IA64 development in say 2-3 years, replacing it with a 64s$ > bit 8086 competing against Hammer. > I > *IF* HP doesn't see much long term potential for VMS, would they bother O > re-porting VMS, or would they simply stick with whatever IA64 is available at0 > that time for X years ?p  	 Or Alpha?s  P > If, at that time, MIPS were still being developped, would HP switch its TandemN > product line back to MIPS or would it port Tande, to 64 bit 8086 after Intel > has added lockstep ? > P > If IA64 is declared stillborn in a couple of years, I wonder if it wouldn't beJ > just easier for HP to revive PA-Risc instead of porting HP-UX once more.   Or Alpha???   G > I see IA64 a bit like OSI. OSI was to have been the industry standardeN > networking. Digital adopted it and spent big bucks on it, but in the end, itO > si TCPIP which became the industry standard. Intel wanted to portray the IA64vJ > as the future industry standard. HP is betting its business on it. But I  8 No, HP is betting YOUR business and MY business on IA64.  F > really don't see that chip becoming anywhere near industry standard.    1 	26-October, 2001: A day that will live in infamyn4 	Support Freedom: http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/  B 	Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2003 20:59:29 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <VvhHcTGFRWG$@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  h In article <d7791aa1.0302201528.2a365043@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:F >> release next year.  Given that Power 4 already wipes the floor withA >> Itanic on performance they haven't got a hope against the nextc >> generation. > @ > this is a qoute from Terry Shannons article on openvms.org ... > < > "We also hear that Madison price/performance is excellent.> > Having already surpassed Power 4 with McKinley, Intel plans , > to upstage a 1.25 GHz Alpha with Madison." >   > Question: Do you work for IBM?  - 	What if he did Bob, would that change facts?e  9 	The deal is... Madison will be more powerful than EV7 insE 	several metrics as mentioned by Paul DeMone at www.realworldtech.com B 	(and of course by Terry, and Terry is generally pretty accurate).  ? 	If you care to expand your world Bob, drop over there and read1@ 	some of his articles.  Paul really is one of the best, and free 	analysis at that.   				Robc   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 07:07:27 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)p Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSe= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0302210707.28962b1a@posting.google.com>m  v susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) wrote in message news:<857e9e41.0302201929.77cc4654@posting.google.com>... >  > Dear Newsgroup,rE > You know that voice inside that tells you to take the high road and-; > not take things personally and to be politically correct?v  ; Yup, know it and *try* to do it. I'm not good at it though.a  C I'd like to add that the OpenVMS team are the best engineers on the0D planet. I've tried all the main stream OSes, however OpenVMS is what
 works for me.t  @ Got a new manager at work - he is OpenVMS friendly, but we can't> spend money to buy the latest and greatest each year, however = *REALLY* appreciate the CSLG, and do send some funds your wayu< every so often. We recently sent some $ your way on new kit,< and I've even got budget for OpenVMS hardware purchases this year!b  ; You are trying to compete against the WINTEL world. This is , not going to be easy. You are doing it well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:25:34 -0800:* From: Jason Brady <jrbrady@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSo8 Message-ID: <crjc5v4923k4nj4i6n53rgosal42qi3qrt@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:11:59 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  D >We, the customers and users of VMS, know that VMS is in jeopardy as> >long as no or feeble attempts are made to market VMS to *new* >customers - ...  D Oracle ran an advertisement on the back cover of a recent edition ofB The Economist:  "Oracle and Linux - Unbreakable".  I'm not a LinuxF expert, but I'd bet that a similar claim could be made for OpenVMS andC Rdb!  So where are the ads, HP?  (Especially I.T. publications, nota2 just those targeted at executives and management.)  B >Marketing inertia, when it gets going, cuts both ways, for you orF >against you. Microsoft has successfully demonstrates how it works for) >you, even with an inferior product - ...o  > Don't forget the educational market.  Nearly all of my youngerC co-workers, both I.T. and business, only know about Windows (with atA smattering of various flavors of UNIX/Linux).  They're the futureeE leaders in the organization--if they lack early awareness of OpenVMS, E you can be sure their receptivity to a future sales pitch is severelyg diminished.    Regards, Jason Brady    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:26:04 +0000 (UTC)h8 From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins)Y Subject: unix converging  [was: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs] IBM monopoly IBM-. Message-ID: <b35jus$1idc$6@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>  ( [followup set to alt.folklore.computers]( In article <3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com>,+ Peter Flass  <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:/  >"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:  . >> Foundation?  Isn't it "Oppose Sun Forever"?  @ >I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theirG >computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-lessDE >incompatible versions.  With the free unices now available you wouldk= >think that everyone would work towards more rather than lesssG >commonality.  If everyone doesn't want to switch to Linux, or FreeBSD,RC >or whatever, why not at least try to take the best features of thesG >various versions and incorporate them into all the others, so that theo< >systems would become more rather than less alike over time.  F Actually, I think this will be the biggest long-term contribution from linux:  a common reference.D  B Until Linux, setting a common reference point meant a competitor'sH product, not a feasible approach. Now many commercial products are using linux as the baseline.   hawk   -- tK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaign G dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailhD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:02:38 -0000 D From: "Rupert Pigott" <roo@dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly  vs.  IBM r2 Message-ID: <1045846955.254736@saucer.planet.gong>  6 "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message# news:3E562485.8C725656@yahoo.com...a > Rupert Pigott wrote: > > : > > "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message& > > news:3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com... > > 
 > > [SNIP] > >oE > > > I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theireL > > > computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-lessJ > > > incompatible versions.  With the free unices now available you would > > > > > It's kinda natural when you think about it... Not everyone@ > > agrees on the "one-true-way", ie: One Size Does Not Fit All. > > < > > The fact that UNIX has always had a relatively open code? > > base has allowed people to go off and do interesting thingsc> > > with it that the original players had no intention of ever > > doing... >eI > I guess my priorities may be different.  I'd be willing to give up somen1 > bells-and-whistles for a "run anywhere" system.  >  > > B > > > think that everyone would work towards more rather than lessL > > > commonality.  If everyone doesn't want to switch to Linux, or FreeBSD, > >c > > They do. > > H > > > or whatever, why not at least try to take the best features of theL > > > various versions and incorporate them into all the others, so that theA > > > systems would become more rather than less alike over time.s > >e+ > > Err, assuming you meant "more alike"...  > >  > > They do. > >t5 > > Device drivers and network stacks have frequently 5 > > been shared across the free UNIXen... Even to the03 > > extent that there was a common codebase for theH5 > > BSD & Linux BusLogic drivers at one point. If youo6 > > look at a lot of the *BSD trees you'll notice that5 > > they all borrow the best from each other. The keym8 > > differentiator between the BSDs are their respective5 > > priorities, which naturally gives you a differentr6 > > bunch of reliability/functionality/packaging trade- > > offs (to pick 3 parameters at random :P).  >fI > You've got to love the "at one point".  That's my argument.  The driver   5 I said at one point because I haven't looked at those 2 particular drivers for some years now. If they are5 still maintained by the same dude (no reason why not) % then I imagine they are still common.-  J > models should be forced into compatibility so that *one* driver will runH > on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris on Intel, etc. without needing a recompile.   Why ? That would be insane !  = The internals of those OSes could be quite different, puttingT? all the cfg into *run-time* instead of compile-time will almostg= certainly increase the chance of nasty bugs, kill performancec< AND make testing more complicated (oft forgotten problem)...  E > I'm used to looking at the "portable" software loaded with #ifdef'sxG > because people can't even agree what directory to put an include file ? > in.  Tha fact that Gnu autoconf even has to exist says a lot.   = Autoconf feels like overkill to me. However it does have somed@ utility... It encodes a lot of information about the differences; between the targets that it supports - knowledge which mostm; developers find the hard way... In the case of contemporary = UNIXen Autoconf feels as if it is surplus to my requirements. = When it comes to crustier, dustier or more bizarre targets itl is definately useful. ;)   Cheers,  Rupert   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:34:22 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.comoY Subject: Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs.  IBM mw3 Message-ID: <3e55e48e$0$193$75868355@news.frii.net>r  D In alt.folklore.computers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:  A > I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theircH > computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-lessF > incompatible versions.  With the free unices now available you would> > think that everyone would work towards more rather than lessH > commonality.  If everyone doesn't want to switch to Linux, or FreeBSD,D > or whatever, why not at least try to take the best features of theH > various versions and incorporate them into all the others, so that the= > systems would become more rather than less alike over time.-  E Well, since on NetBSD I can run Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, SCO, Ultrix,lH Dec UNIX and other apps under emulation mode, depending on the platform, why bother?$ -- l, rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:05:35 GMT ) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>pY Subject: Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs.  IBM mt) Message-ID: <3E562485.8C725656@yahoo.com>    Rupert Pigott wrote: > 8 > "Peter Flass" <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in message$ > news:3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com... >  > [SNIP] > C > > I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theirVJ > > computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-lessH > > incompatible versions.  With the free unices now available you would > < > It's kinda natural when you think about it... Not everyone> > agrees on the "one-true-way", ie: One Size Does Not Fit All. > : > The fact that UNIX has always had a relatively open code= > base has allowed people to go off and do interesting thingsr< > with it that the original players had no intention of ever
 > doing...  G I guess my priorities may be different.  I'd be willing to give up some11 bells-and-whistles for a "run anywhere" system.  l   > @ > > think that everyone would work towards more rather than lessJ > > commonality.  If everyone doesn't want to switch to Linux, or FreeBSD, > 
 > They do. > F > > or whatever, why not at least try to take the best features of theJ > > various versions and incorporate them into all the others, so that the? > > systems would become more rather than less alike over time.- > ) > Err, assuming you meant "more alike"...1 > 
 > They do. > 3 > Device drivers and network stacks have frequentlyV3 > been shared across the free UNIXen... Even to thev1 > extent that there was a common codebase for theu3 > BSD & Linux BusLogic drivers at one point. If you:4 > look at a lot of the *BSD trees you'll notice that3 > they all borrow the best from each other. The keyo6 > differentiator between the BSDs are their respective3 > priorities, which naturally gives you a different 4 > bunch of reliability/functionality/packaging trade+ > offs (to pick 3 parameters at random :P).1  G You've got to love the "at one point".  That's my argument.  The driverwH models should be forced into compatibility so that *one* driver will runG on Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris on Intel, etc. without needing a recompile. lC I'm used to looking at the "portable" software loaded with #ifdef's-E because people can't even agree what directory to put an include files= in.  Tha fact that Gnu autoconf even has to exist says a lot.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:21:07 GMTw) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>,Y Subject: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopor( Message-ID: <3E554E38.7881042@yahoo.com>   "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:t > 0 > In article <3E521C74.1020107@nospamn.sun.com>,E > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <Andrew.Harrison@Sun.COM> wrote:e > D > >In a move reminiscent of the early UNIX days smaller Linux distroB > >vendors are now ganging up against the dominant Linux (RedHat). > ...a > = > >Sounds rather like all the smaller UNIX vendors ganging up2? > >against Sun and AT&T to form OSF. (lets call it a foundationa > >it makes it sound better).0 > - > Foundation?  Isn't it "Oppose Sun Forever"?j  ? I'll NEVER understand unix poeople.  Put three of 'em and theirAF computers in a room and you'll wind up with at least five more-or-lessD incompatible versions.  With the free unices now available you would< think that everyone would work towards more rather than lessF commonality.  If everyone doesn't want to switch to Linux, or FreeBSD,B or whatever, why not at least try to take the best features of theF various versions and incorporate them into all the others, so that the; systems would become more rather than less alike over time.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:05:33 +0000C- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>6* Subject: Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ?/ Message-ID: <v5c91ce86f205e@corp.supernews.com>e   Phillip Helbig wrote:M  ; > >TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ?m >iF > There is a lot of work to do improving TPU, which is why I still useH > mainly EDT.  (Yes, there are some things I occasionally need which TPUB > does better, but more which I often need which EDT does better.)  : Aha, so your improvements would be in *EVE*, not in *TPU*.= I'm a cast-in-stone EDT user;  I always use EDT for editting,4A and have done so for more than 20 years.  At the risk of startingw< a my-editor's-better-than-yours-war, I can only think of oneD editor that was better than EDT, and that was Cambridge University's$ ZED (dating back to the mid 1970's).  ; I view TPU as a programming language, and a damned fine one:< at that.  Apart from Bart Zorn's observation re BOX cutting,4 what else in *TPU* do you think requires improving ?  H > IIRC, EDT is still supported but frozen.  Perhaps it is even no longerH > supported.  In any case, it is clear that the code won't change much. F >  I think the manual is only available in text or perhaps PostScript B > form; how's that for "cast in stone"?  Thus, it is not a moving H > target.  It would be nice if the EDT emulation in EVE (what annoys me G > more than non-VMS systems being called clusters is folks who use the sI > EDT keypad only in the EDT emulation of EVE saying "I am familiar with eE > EDT"!) would do everything EDT can do---EDTINI.EDT file, all three  9 > modes etc.  In other words, make EVE a superset of EDT.r  E Again, it's *EVE* that you're targetting.  But, yes, your point abouta  "familiarity with EDT" is right.  G > How much work would this be?  Of course, only the beginning of a fileoH > should be read if that is all that is needed, the cursor speed should I > be as fast as in EDT and not jump unnecessarily to the end of the line o > etc. >cF > Just another question: what fraction of EVE users use the DECwindows > interface?  B Not I.  I always use EDT, and very often for things that it wasn'tB really designed for (like editting .EXE files :-)  But then again,* I'm a hacker in the old sense of the word.  + Roy Omond - VMS hacker (and proud of it :-)t Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:40:33 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t* Subject: Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ?; Message-ID: <01KSPBTQSDL69GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  < > Aha, so your improvements would be in *EVE*, not in *TPU*.  I OK, as an occasional user only, I admit EDIT/TPU is interchangeable with oG EVE to me.  OK, TPU is the language and EVE an application or whatever.   = > I view TPU as a programming language, and a damned fine one-> > at that.  Apart from Bart Zorn's observation re BOX cutting,6 > what else in *TPU* do you think requires improving ?  / Could one write a complete EDT emulation in it?v   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:54:09 +0000D- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>h* Subject: Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ?/ Message-ID: <v5cbsd7fuqf149@corp.supernews.com>.   Phillip Helbig wrote:.  = > >Aha, so your improvements would be in *EVE*, not in *TPU*.s >t> > >I view TPU as a programming language, and a damned fine one? > >at that.  Apart from Bart Zorn's observation re BOX cutting, 7 > >what else in *TPU* do you think requires improving ?d >o1 > Could one write a complete EDT emulation in it?r  1 Of course.  EVE didn't go far enough, only really 2 emulating the "easier" parts.  EDT has modes other2 than the full-screen that most users actually make use of.=  0 Heck, it would be an interesting little exercise7 to write a {Fortran, Pascal, PL/I, Ada, IMP} *compiler*s2 in TPU :-)  The only thing really missing from TPU6 is floating-point ;-)  IIRC, this is where Teco shines" (as no doubt Larry K. will add :-)  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:13:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e* Subject: Re: Upcoming *TPU* improvements ?3 Message-ID: <974Vy80pWtRx@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  _ In article <v5cbsd7fuqf149@corp.supernews.com>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> writes:s  2 > Heck, it would be an interesting little exercise9 > to write a {Fortran, Pascal, PL/I, Ada, IMP} *compiler*)4 > in TPU :-)  The only thing really missing from TPU8 > is floating-point ;-)  IIRC, this is where Teco shines$ > (as no doubt Larry K. will add :-)  > Actually, TECO (an acronym) also lacks floating point support,? but that scurrilous Carly Fiorina has declared that porting VMS ! to Itanium is higher priority !!!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:36:39 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>a( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <v5c3qj96j1f18e@corp.supernews.com>t   JF Mezei wrote:   < > Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ? >oF > (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added  > effort to VMS).n > H > I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilities on G > it. Any plans to work on TPU ? And plans to work on MAIL ? Any plans m > on the TCPIP suite ?    8 TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ?   Just curious ...  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:53:47 +0100r) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl>"( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?6 Message-ID: <3e56134b$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>  F Well, I know of one thing that could be improved. Did you ever try to I use the BOX commands? BOX select fails to do the highlighting correctly. DH It highlights from the top-left posistion to the bottom-right posistion @ alright, but also all the entire lines between those two points.  F I really never found it anything more than an annoyance, but now that 
 you ask...  	 Bart Zorn0   Roy Omond wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:T > = >> Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ?4 >>G >> (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added   >> effort to VMS). >>I >> I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilities on aH >> it. Any plans to work on TPU ? And plans to work on MAIL ? Any plans  >> on the TCPIP suite ?i >  >  > : > TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ? >  > Just curious ... >  > Roy Omondu > Blue Bubble Ltd. >    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:18:15 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?; Message-ID: <01KSP8KUUGJS9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   : > TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ?  E There is a lot of work to do improving TPU, which is why I still use :G mainly EDT.  (Yes, there are some things I occasionally need which TPU F@ does better, but more which I often need which EDT does better.)  F IIRC, EDT is still supported but frozen.  Perhaps it is even no longerH supported.  In any case, it is clear that the code won't change much.  IF think the manual is only available in text or perhaps PostScript form;E how's that for "cast in stone"?  Thus, it is not a moving target.  IttC would be nice if the EDT emulation in EVE (what annoys me more than0E non-VMS systems being called clusters is folks who use the EDT keypad-H only in the EDT emulation of EVE saying "I am familiar with EDT"!) wouldD do everything EDT can do---EDTINI.EDT file, all three modes etc.  In) other words, make EVE a superset of EDT. P  AF How much work would this be?  Of course, only the beginning of a file I should be read if that is all that is needed, the cursor speed should be >H as fast as in EDT and not jump unnecessarily to the end of the line etc.  E Just another question: what fraction of EVE users use the DECwindows -
 interface?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:41:33 -0500mA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>1( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?, Message-ID: <3e562c8e_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaget) news:3E55AFE2.4144551C@vl.videotron.ca... < > Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ? >rL > (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added effort to VMS). >g  % Well, many of us think it adds value.i  K > I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilities on it.e   Yes.  Many.i   > Any plans to work on TPU ?  J I doubt enhancements to TPU will get higher priority than, say, a new file system.5   > And plans to work on MAIL ?-   Dunno.    > Any plans on the TCPIP suite ? >:  5 Yes.  TCPIP is actively being developed and enhanced.   K > Is it now official that none of thsoe improvements would make it to VAX ?n  
 Case-by-case..   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:57:36 -0500n& From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?& Message-ID: <3E563050.166BF70B@hp.com>   Phillip Helbig wrote:AF > Just another question: what fraction of EVE users use the DECwindows > interface?  E There's a DECwindows interface? Neat - you learn something every day!n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:00:17 -0500s' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>P( Subject: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9D14@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,h  F >>> I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilitiesG on it. Any plans to work on TPU ? And plans to work on MAIL ? Any plans  on the TCPIP suite ? <<<  ? Well, having just came back a few weeks ago from the world wideeE Ambassador meeting in Nashua where an entire week of 8:00am to 6:00pmk@ (and sessions at night) from Mon to Fri noon was spent on statusH updates, new stuff coming, future strategies etc, I would say that there+ are more than a few enhancements planned ..p   :-)a   Regardsr  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanth Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)C OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMn     -----Original Message-----: From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]=20  Sent: February 20, 2003 11:50 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg$ Subject: Upcoming VMS improvements ?    : Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ?  C (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added  effort to VMS).r  E I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilities on G it. Any plans to work on TPU ? And plans to work on MAIL ? Any plans on3 the TCPIP suite ?=20  G Is it now official that none of thsoe improvements would make it to VAX  ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:10:29 +0100c! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>h( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?8 Message-ID: <necc5vohsnonddu9esiph5hcb5f49hd294@4ax.com>  N On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:49:39 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  ; >Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ?2  6 The OpenVMS Rolling Roadmaps presentation available atB http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm/ details improvements planned for years to come.r   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azurn   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:41:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)4( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <IVlTsQEdTZAY@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  b In article <3E55AFE2.4144551C@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:< > Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ? > U > (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added effort to VMS).<  H    There are a great many other improvements shown on the web site as in-    progress, planned, and recently completed.c   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 09:55:27 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <tp2lg44$1W5U@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  b In article <3e56134b$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>, Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes:H > Well, I know of one thing that could be improved. Did you ever try to K > use the BOX commands? BOX select fails to do the highlighting correctly. mJ > It highlights from the top-left posistion to the bottom-right posistion B > alright, but also all the entire lines between those two points. > H > I really never found it anything more than an annoyance, but now that  > you ask... >    	Yes BOX is limiting.   < 	However, there are much better substitutes.  You can GoogleB 	for links maybe.  Many of the TPU gurus over the years have moved< 	on but code is still about.  Ken Fairfield has a ton of it,> 	you can drop him a line.  The rectangular cut and paste I use 	was authored by:      ! EVE_UTILITY.TPUu !p+ !               Written by:     Chris Yodera3 !                       for:    Harvey Mudd College.6 !                               Mathematics Department2 !                       on:     September 20, 1988 !sN !          This module provides rectangular cut and paste for EVE_EDT.  It canJ !       be incorporated into any other EVE based TPU editor built with theO !       BUILD facility found in EVE 2.0 (However, I would appreciate it if this $ !       header stayed in this file). ! K !          The ideas were shamelessly stolen from EDTPlus, but the routinesoL !       were completely rewritten for clarity, speed, and so that they wouldE !       actually work in the EVE environment.  - rcy 3/13/87 - 4/7/87s !,   	Yoder was/is very good at TPU.p   				Robs  : And the wind shall say:  "Here were decent godless people:>                           Their only monument the asphalt road:                           And a thousand lost golf balls."-                                 -- T.S. EliotR  t   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 05:25 CDT@' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingse- Message-ID: <21FEB200305254583@gerg.tamu.edu>n  2 Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes...  }int fsync(int file_descriptor); }  } 6 }Where do I get the file_descriptor? From what I have. } E }I know it's probably a trivial thing, but I work with descriptors son }little... I've forgotten. }  }Lyndono     Run-time_functions  
     fileno  E        Returns the file descriptor associated with the specified filet        pointer.s          Syntax:               #include <stdio.h>  +             int fileno(FILE *file_pointer);.    D Why isn't this function called "filedesc", since it returns the file descriptor? Beats me.h   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 06:59 CDTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timings - Message-ID: <21FEB200306590606@gerg.tamu.edu>o  . "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes...G }"Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in messages* }news:3E52B333.89D4AE4F@eps.zko.dec.com...K }> Unix has a write-behind cache (UBC) design you write, the OS accepts anda }willhK }> try to write it out later. (update daemon). If that write fails, yo will  }never know. } D }Well, I guess you could equally well say that if you ignore RMS (orL }higher-level) status returns you'll never know a write failed, either.  ButJ }if you *care* whether your copy (or any other write) operation completed,L }simply follow it with an fsync request:  when that returns, not only shouldK }all your copied data and associated metadata be on the disk platters (thussH }ensuring an apples-to-apples performance comparison with VMS - and restM }assured that VMS will still get slaughtered if you leave it to its defaults)cL }but if any error occurs in the process you'll get notified of it right then }and there.e } M }> So un Unix you only measured the time to put the data in the system buffert }and youI }> have no idea whether it made it out all the way. (Admittedly, 2gb is a  }pretty good test,K }> likely to push through quite a bit of the data). You'd have to call SYNC  }to measure the IOs. }>H }> 2 gb / 30 sec = 70mb/sec. Pretty good... you'd need 2gb fiber and 10+ }striped diskes to do better.tB }> It is in fact too good for 'normal' fiber and just a few disks.K }> 2gb / 120sec =  18mb/sec. Nice, but nothing to exiting. Clearly not muchr }parralel work.s }>L }> VMS uses write-through, or no, caching. If you say write, the system will }go to the disk for you.5 }> If that fails it will let you know there and then.e } J }While you do qualify this immediately below, it should be emphasized thatE }the above applies only to QIO-level application requests.  Interpose-L }something like RMS or the C RTL, and it's no longer necessarily true:  someM }write-behind often occurs, just not very efficiently if you leave the systemM }to its defaults.J }- bill@  I On the other hand, when you close the file I think the close call doesn't H return until all the buffers have been flushed to disk when using eitherG RMS or the C RTL. If the close is a "real" close, such that the processaD will no longer have any channels or locks involving the file, and itG really is synchronous then it pretty much has to be this way. I'm quitepJ sure that RMS works this way (unless maybe you specify some optional stuffK to make the close effectively asynchronous - I havn't checked, but it wouldlK not surprise me if you could have it return immediately before the flushingrF is complete, but it isn't the default behavior), but not quite so sure about the C RTL.  D So with RAH and WBH and several buffers, the VMS version is somewhatE equivalent to doing a single flush right before the close on the Unix.D system rather than a flush after every write (which would be more orB less the way VMS works by default, modulo the C RTL and suchlike).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:00:26 -0500l9 From: Hein van den Heuvel <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com>d) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsI/ Message-ID: <3E5525CA.532F9865@eps.zko.dec.com>s   Dave Gudewicz wrote:   > Hein,a >hL > Thanks for joining in here.  Now a question.  If the RMS sysgen parametersI > are left to default values, which are mostly zero, and a program is not/M > written to take advantage of any of the RMS stuff mentioned in this thread,-= > can one safely assume that mostly zero is what they'll get?r  O Close. Zero translates to 1 buffer of 16 blocks (8KB). Not much these days huh?gO If (and only if) you have WBH enabled (Cobol default we'd give you a whopping 2. buffers!  I While VMS recognized a long time ago those those params were probably wayxL to conservative the believe was that a wholesale change could cause too much disturbance.M There is change though. As Kerry already indicated,  the latstes VMS versionsr has severalrM new features, notably 'forcing WBH', large buffers, and Query locks for index  files all withoutg program changes.   > If yes, thenL > **in general** is it a good idea to bump these sysgen parameters up to get$ > an I/O performance boost from VMS?  8 Yes, go for it: SET RMS/SYS/SEQ/BLOCK=64/BUF=4/EXTE=1000 and SET RMS/SYS/IND/BUF=20    * > How might this bump affect programs that6 > are written to take advantage of these RMS features?  I Well, if they hardcoded an improvement from 1*8KB buf to 2*16KB then they J would (unfortunately?) not benefit from a news 4*32KB default as suggested above.  P With a perfect read-ahead implementation you really only need 2 buffers. But RMS doesK not try to 'keep ahead'. It just reads-ahead when it runs out ofdata in theu current buffers.M If have measured signifincant improvementes goiing from 1 to 2 to 4, but very  minorkN further improvements going from 4 to say 8. Also, the multi buffer really only helps@F when RAH and/ro WBH is active, so no need to get carried away too much  N > And if one uses an external disk controller, HS*nn, VMS thinks its done withK > writes when the controller (not the disk) tells it.  So the data isn't ontJ > the platter/s until the controller gets around to it and VMS goes on its! > merry way thinking all is well.e  7 Correct. Writeback caching in the controller will work. N It does just not on direct-attached storage. (well, it is not supported there, but it can be done).N The data will be 'out of the system', over the wire, and the process will only continueP when the controller indicates cussesfull receipt, but yes that is before it hits the disk itself.   hth,   Hein.a   >h > --	 > Dave...  > I > It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less 
 > trouble. > -----Mark Twain- >-5 > "hein" <hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message * > news:cmF4a.41$OV2.35@news.cpqcorp.net... > >>? > > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message6, > > news:3E52959D.5F56EC4D@pressenter.com... > > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:" > >oB > > > On my 500au, I ran 6 tests changing DIOLM, BIOLM, and BYTLM.; > > > These tests ran from 1394 seconds up to 1580 seconds.d > >mC > > As per my previous reply, nice experiment, but a waste of time.nL > > Very, very, few, programs know how to honor these process limits. Backup > > being one of the few.xK > > For normal program it suffices to have enough. More will not help more.! > >w > >aJ > > > I've been reading the performance management manual, and I've prettyK > > > much concluded that the computer isn't CPU bound. Memory doesn't lookbF > > > bad, but I haven't got to that part of the manual yet. I/O, both$ > > > buffered and direct, are high. > >fE > > Fix the buffered IO by pre-allocating and/or using large extents.lN > > > Now... the question I have.... Is how do I figure out how/why to correctN > > > the I/O bind. My gut tells me that the I/O rate is high, but the size isM > > > too small. The computer is spending more time keeping track of the I/OsrL > > > than actually doing the I/Os.... If I could make the size larger, then% > > > the number might be reduced....- > >-G > > The RMS knob for this is MULTI BLOCK COUNT = RAB$B_MBC ( 0 - 127 ).r > >. > > hth, > >      Hein. > >) > >j   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:38:02 -0600n* From: "Dave Gudewicz" <dgudewicz@core.com>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsl/ Message-ID: <v5ailsed3t9171@corp.supernews.com>o   Thanks -- Dave...e  H Such is the human race.  Often it does seem such a pity that Noah didn't miss the boat. -----Mark Twainr  F "Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:3E5525CA.532F9865@eps.zko.dec.com...a >e >  > Dave Gudewicz wrote: >a	 > > Hein,o > >WC > > Thanks for joining in here.  Now a question.  If the RMS sysgenu
 parametersK > > are left to default values, which are mostly zero, and a program is not G > > written to take advantage of any of the RMS stuff mentioned in thiss thread,s? > > can one safely assume that mostly zero is what they'll get?e > L > Close. Zero translates to 1 buffer of 16 blocks (8KB). Not much these days huh?F > If (and only if) you have WBH enabled (Cobol default we'd give you a
 whopping 2
 > buffers! >nK > While VMS recognized a long time ago those those params were probably waytI > to conservative the believe was that a wholesale change could cause toob much > disturbance.F > There is change though. As Kerry already indicated,  the latstes VMS versions
 > has several I > new features, notably 'forcing WBH', large buffers, and Query locks forl indexe > files all without  > program changes. >e > > If yes, thenJ > > **in general** is it a good idea to bump these sysgen parameters up to get,& > > an I/O performance boost from VMS? > : > Yes, go for it: SET RMS/SYS/SEQ/BLOCK=64/BUF=4/EXTE=1000 > and SET RMS/SYS/IND/BUF=20 >M >e, > > How might this bump affect programs that8 > > are written to take advantage of these RMS features? >tK > Well, if they hardcoded an improvement from 1*8KB buf to 2*16KB then theyhL > would (unfortunately?) not benefit from a news 4*32KB default as suggested > above. >nJ > With a perfect read-ahead implementation you really only need 2 buffers. But RMSN > doesI > not try to 'keep ahead'. It just reads-ahead when it runs out ofdata ino the  > current buffers.J > If have measured signifincant improvementes goiing from 1 to 2 to 4, but very > minoreK > further improvements going from 4 to say 8. Also, the multi buffer reallyo only > helpsoH > when RAH and/ro WBH is active, so no need to get carried away too much > K > > And if one uses an external disk controller, HS*nn, VMS thinks its done  withJ > > writes when the controller (not the disk) tells it.  So the data isn't onL > > the platter/s until the controller gets around to it and VMS goes on its# > > merry way thinking all is well.- >s9 > Correct. Writeback caching in the controller will work.hI > It does just not on direct-attached storage. (well, it is not supportedf there, > but it can be done).K > The data will be 'out of the system', over the wire, and the process willa only
 > continueJ > when the controller indicates cussesfull receipt, but yes that is before it hitso > the disk itself. >  > hth, >o > Hein.e >r > >h > > -- > > Dave...e > >eK > > It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less  > > trouble. > > -----Mark Twains > > 7 > > "hein" <hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message., > > news:cmF4a.41$OV2.35@news.cpqcorp.net... > > >dA > > > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messageo. > > > news:3E52959D.5F56EC4D@pressenter.com... > > > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > > >tD > > > > On my 500au, I ran 6 tests changing DIOLM, BIOLM, and BYTLM.= > > > > These tests ran from 1394 seconds up to 1580 seconds.f > > > E > > > As per my previous reply, nice experiment, but a waste of time.cG > > > Very, very, few, programs know how to honor these process limits.t Backup > > > being one of the few. G > > > For normal program it suffices to have enough. More will not helpe more.s > > >r > > >IL > > > > I've been reading the performance management manual, and I've prettyH > > > > much concluded that the computer isn't CPU bound. Memory doesn't lookH > > > > bad, but I haven't got to that part of the manual yet. I/O, both& > > > > buffered and direct, are high. > > >bG > > > Fix the buffered IO by pre-allocating and/or using large extents.nH > > > > Now... the question I have.... Is how do I figure out how/why to correctrH > > > > the I/O bind. My gut tells me that the I/O rate is high, but the size is J > > > > too small. The computer is spending more time keeping track of the I/OsI > > > > than actually doing the I/Os.... If I could make the size larger,  then' > > > > the number might be reduced....c > > >nI > > > The RMS knob for this is MULTI BLOCK COUNT = RAB$B_MBC ( 0 - 127 ).t > > >a
 > > > hth, > > >      Hein. > > >  > > >r >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:11:36 -0500w* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsn2 Message-ID: <cvqcnWkJxMZ8F8ijXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  F "Hein van den Heuvel" <hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:3E52B333.89D4AE4F@eps.zko.dec.com...-   ...-  J > Unix has a write-behind cache (UBC) design you write, the OS accepts and willJ > try to write it out later. (update daemon). If that write fails, yo will never know.-  C Well, I guess you could equally well say that if you ignore RMS (orrK higher-level) status returns you'll never know a write failed, either.  ButpI if you *care* whether your copy (or any other write) operation completed, K simply follow it with an fsync request:  when that returns, not only shouldnJ all your copied data and associated metadata be on the disk platters (thusG ensuring an apples-to-apples performance comparison with VMS - and restiL assured that VMS will still get slaughtered if you leave it to its defaults)K but if any error occurs in the process you'll get notified of it right thent
 and there.  L > So un Unix you only measured the time to put the data in the system buffer and youuH > have no idea whether it made it out all the way. (Admittedly, 2gb is a pretty good test,dJ > likely to push through quite a bit of the data). You'd have to call SYNC to measure the IOs.- >-G > 2 gb / 30 sec = 70mb/sec. Pretty good... you'd need 2gb fiber and 10+l striped diskes to do better.A > It is in fact too good for 'normal' fiber and just a few disks.fJ > 2gb / 120sec =  18mb/sec. Nice, but nothing to exiting. Clearly not much parralel work. > K > VMS uses write-through, or no, caching. If you say write, the system will1 go to the disk for you.S4 > If that fails it will let you know there and then.  I While you do qualify this immediately below, it should be emphasized thatlD the above applies only to QIO-level application requests.  InterposeK something like RMS or the C RTL, and it's no longer necessarily true:  some.L write-behind often occurs, just not very efficiently if you leave the system to its defaults.  ,  The RMS and C-rtl layer muddle that picture > somewhat.l >dI > They will buffer for you, performing a write to disk when the buffer isl full.If that fails, you program  >nJ > is still garantueed to be still around, so you can be informed allthough you will not know exactlyr > what made it put, what not.  > C > >  One though I has was that the fopen(), fprintf(), and fclose() 	 functions.K > > weren't all that efficient. So I rewrote the procedure with sys$open(), L > >  sys$connect(), sys$put(), and sys$close() calls. The time was about the) > >  same. Only a few seconds difference.a >t% > Cool. Did you turn a few RMS knobs?l: >  Try:   - fab$v_wbh = 1, fab$w_deq=10000, fab$b_shr=nil, fab$l_alq=4000000,( >             rab$b_mbf=8, rab$b_mbc=127# > That should get VMS close toTru64f >uK > Still, I suspect Tru64 will always remain faster. The UBC allows for moreh parralel and larger IO.   G Hmmm.  Even if RMS is still limited to 63.5 KB internal buffers, with a I goodly number of them shouldn't you be able to mask everything except theaC actual disk transfer bandwidth (i.e., have enough 63.5 KB transferscL constantly queued up in parallel that all the per-request system overhead isD masked)?  Of course, that assumes disks that support multiple queuedK requests, but the system involved doesn't sound like an IDE-based platform.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:18:01 -0500n' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>i) Subject: RE: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingsoT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DA4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  > Just to add to Heins comments on the write back caching on the controller -  E Something to keep in mind is that these caching parameters on the HSx2G are disk / volume dependant. In other words, you could setup write backjE on most devices, but set write through for devices that you really dov/ want the write to complete to disk immediately.o  G This is a good strategy to look at for transaction logs in the database1B arena. One can setup database files for write back for performanceD reasons, but transaction logs or journal files on separate disks for@ write through. Hence, one trades off a bit of performance on theH transaction logs, for a bit of comfort knowing your transaction logs are always current.o   Regardsu  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services0 Voice: 613-592-4660I Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMn     -----Original Message-----C From: Hein van den Heuvel [mailto:hein_netscape@eps.zko.dec.com]=20w Sent: February 20, 2003 2:00 PMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: Re: VMS & Tru64 Disk I/O timingst         Dave Gudewicz wrote:   > Hein,e >,D > Thanks for joining in here.  Now a question.  If the RMS sysgen=20H > parameters are left to default values, which are mostly zero, and a=20E > program is not written to take advantage of any of the RMS stuff=20-H > mentioned in this thread, can one safely assume that mostly zero is=20 > what they'll get?6  E Close. Zero translates to 1 buffer of 16 blocks (8KB). Not much these@H days huh? If (and only if) you have WBH enabled (Cobol default we'd give you a whopping 2 buffers!r  E While VMS recognized a long time ago those those params were probablyIG way to conservative the believe was that a wholesale change could caused> too much disturbance. There is change though. As Kerry alreadyF indicated,  the latstes VMS versions has several new features, notablyA 'forcing WBH', large buffers, and Query locks for index files all4 without program changes.   > If yes, thenH > **in general** is it a good idea to bump these sysgen parameters up to  ( > get an I/O performance boost from VMS?  > Yes, go for it: SET RMS/SYS/SEQ/BLOCK=3D64/BUF=3D4/EXTE=3D1000 and SET RMS/SYS/IND/BUF=3D20    * > How might this bump affect programs that6 > are written to take advantage of these RMS features?  D Well, if they hardcoded an improvement from 1*8KB buf to 2*16KB thenE they would (unfortunately?) not benefit from a news 4*32KB default ase suggested above.  H With a perfect read-ahead implementation you really only need 2 buffers.F But RMS does not try to 'keep ahead'. It just reads-ahead when it runs@ out ofdata in the current buffers. If have measured signifincant= improvementes goiing from 1 to 2 to 4, but very minor furtherMF improvements going from 4 to say 8. Also, the multi buffer really onlyG helps when RAH and/ro WBH is active, so no need to get carried away tood much  G > And if one uses an external disk controller, HS*nn, VMS thinks its=20wJ > done with writes when the controller (not the disk) tells it.  So the=20H > data isn't on the platter/s until the controller gets around to it and  1 > VMS goes on its merry way thinking all is well.n  7 Correct. Writeback caching in the controller will work.dG It does just not on direct-attached storage. (well, it is not supportedsF there, but it can be done). The data will be 'out of the system', over@ the wire, and the process will only continue when the controllerE indicates cussesfull receipt, but yes that is before it hits the disks itself.    hth,   Hein.X   >e > --	 > Dave...g >,G > It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and=20n > less trouble. -----Mark Twaint > 8 > "hein" <hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote in message=20* > news:cmF4a.41$OV2.35@news.cpqcorp.net... > >BB > > "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message=20, > > news:3E52959D.5F56EC4D@pressenter.com... > > > Lyndon Bartels wrote:  > >sH > > > On my 500au, I ran 6 tests changing DIOLM, BIOLM, and BYTLM. These  5 > > > tests ran from 1394 seconds up to 1580 seconds.  > >oF > > As per my previous reply, nice experiment, but a waste of time.=20H > > Very, very, few, programs know how to honor these process limits.=20J > > Backup being one of the few. For normal program it suffices to have=20$ > > enough. More will not help more. > >  > > F > > > I've been reading the performance management manual, and I've=20H > > > pretty much concluded that the computer isn't CPU bound. Memory=20G > > > doesn't look bad, but I haven't got to that part of the manual=20s3 > > > yet. I/O, both buffered and direct, are high.e > > E > > Fix the buffered IO by pre-allocating and/or using large extents.II > > > Now... the question I have.... Is how do I figure out how/why to=20aI > > > correct the I/O bind. My gut tells me that the I/O rate is high,=20yF > > > but the size is too small. The computer is spending more time=20H > > > keeping track of the I/Os than actually doing the I/Os.... If I=20F > > > could make the size larger, then the number might be reduced.... > >tH > > The RMS knob for this is MULTI BLOCK COUNT =3D RAB$B_MBC ( 0 - 127 = ). > >  > > hth, > >      Hein. > >/ > >a   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2003 06:28 CDTm' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s) Subject: Re: What happened to Microsoft ?i- Message-ID: <21FEB200306281067@gerg.tamu.edu>-  4 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... }Carl Perkins wrote:J }> }Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ? }> e }> It split 2 for 1. } % }What was the purpose of that split ?<  C Beats me. I suppose I could check the annual report and such, but ICE don't really care. (I do own a few shares of MSFT, so I have the infoo& they send out stashed away somewhere.)  % }If they have twice as many shares iniN }circulation, any dividend MS might start to issue would be twice as small, so( }return on investment would be the same.  H Of course. This is always the case with a split. More shares, each worthG less. It is usually done to keep the per share price in some range, butiF that can't be the case here or they would have done it quite some timeH ago - unless they have decided to change the range they want to keep theG price in to a lower range of prices than they used to aim for. (ReversesE splits are done for both that reason and another - it is also to save D costs by reducing the number of people you have to send stuff to andG otherwise deal with, as all the shareholders with fewer shares than theaI reverse split quantity suddenly stop being shareholders, as they get cashoK in lieu of the partial new share that their old shares were converted into.?F This is why reverse splits often have a much higher ratio than regularG splits, like 1:20 or more, and are then often followed immediately by a-E normal split - so you might do a 1:30 followed immediately by a 10:1,sH resulting in a 1:3 but eliminating anyone with fewer than 30 (pre split)B shares as a shareholder instead of just anyone with fewer than 3.)  M }And the fact that MS announced it was considering issuing dividends is a bigfO }indication to me that Gates has realised his company has now matured and won'toL }grow much anymore and that the only way to prevent its collapse is to startO }giving investors some dividends otherwise there will be no reason to invest inb }a stagnant stock.  L It is unlikely that around a 0.33% dividend is going to make much differenceK to most investors. (That's about what it currently works out to - $0.08 pertE share per year in dividends on $24.something per share price.) A nice F chunk of shares like 1000 (or a little under $25,000 worth) will bring, in a sub-whopping $80 per year in dividends.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:15:38 -0400y0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: What happened to Microsoft ?b/ Message-ID: <3E551B49.A2BD42D9@vl.videotron.ca>    Carl Perkins wrote:1I > }Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ?c >  > It split 2 for 1.n  J What was the purpose of that split ?  If they have twice as many shares inM circulation, any dividend MS might start to issue would be twice as small, soa' return on investment would be the same.s  L And the fact that MS announced it was considering issuing dividends is a bigN indication to me that Gates has realised his company has now matured and won'tK grow much anymore and that the only way to prevent its collapse is to startpN giving investors some dividends otherwise there will be no reason to invest in a stagnant stock.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:50:48 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")) Subject: Re: What happened to Microsoft ?t6 Message-ID: <00A1BC91.10A9AB97@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <3E551B49.A2BD42D9@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Carl Perkins wrote:J >> }Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ? >> w >> It split 2 for 1. >uK >What was the purpose of that split ?  If they have twice as many shares indN >circulation, any dividend MS might start to issue would be twice as small, so( >return on investment would be the same. >eM >And the fact that MS announced it was considering issuing dividends is a big-O >indication to me that Gates has realised his company has now matured and won'tsL >grow much anymore and that the only way to prevent its collapse is to startO >giving investors some dividends otherwise there will be no reason to invest in. >a stagnant stock.  O A Microsoft employee of my acquaintance told me in January that employee moraleoN was seriously affected when the employees were told revenues were down and theL raise pool would be smaller this year and, within a week, heard the officialM announcements that revenues were good and they were planning a dividend.  (HeaM was also extremely unimpressed to be holding a pile of stock options that, ifoI exercised,  would have allowed him to buy stock at higher than the markett price.)    -- Alano  O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056bM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   940250O ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:27:29 +0100u7 From: Robert Trawinski <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl>E Subject: Re: Window Manager Joy . Message-ID: <b35eht$2it$1@bozon.softax.com.pl>   Chris Csernica wrote:-  > Perhaps someone here can help. > G > We installed some multi-headed displays in our facility a short time jK > ago, and DECWindows CDE isn't handling the situation very well. I looked 7H > around on the web to see if I could find a free or open-source window E > manager around that could handle a multi-headed display a bit more t > adroitly.  > H > FVWM seemed to hold out some promise, especially since it came with a F > descrip file for MMS, which suggested to me that VMS was supported. E > Closer inspection reveals that descrip file had been generated for  G > version 2.3 of FVWM, which is the previous unstable branch. (It also mH > seems to assume an older version of DEC C, since the modules included I > for the VMS port include substitutes for some of the socket routines.) hJ > It doesn't work as-is for the current stable version (2.4.15). Although I > 2.5 is now the current unstable branch, I am (understandably, I think) vJ > unwilling to put 2.3 onto a production system. But I'm having a heck of 2 > a time trying to get 2.4.15 to build on VMS 7.3. > F > I know that the old DECWindows session manager is suppose to handle K > multi-headed displays better than CDE, but our users have gotten used to oE > a prettier desktop and I don't think they'll be willing to go back.  > K > So, has anyone had any luck getting a recent FVWM release to run? Or can o- > anyone suggest an alternate window manager?i > $ > Many thanks to anyone who replies. >  > -- Chris CsernicaA >   0 Maybe DECwindows version 1.3 is solution for you  R http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731final/6663/6663pro_004.html#decwnew_multihead  1 Is it possible to get this version from anywhere?m   Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:38:43 +0100 0 From: Nigel Barker <nigel@removetomailme@hp.com>' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?i8 Message-ID: <eodc5v48eku61oq47rmfo8vn20f2nkv342@4ax.com>  J On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:29:19 GMT, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote:  ; > Was it removed from the web ? Why ? Who has a file copy ?d  P It was withdrawn as it was not in conformance with correct use of trademarks etcP so was in violation of license & agreements with Sun (who of course own the JavaJ trademark). It is just being re-edited so should be back up real soon now.  E >IIRC the minimum (or was it average) recommendation for a VMS system + >with JAVA was an Alpha 6/500 with 1GB mem.n  O For memory, quotas, etc the recommendations for using NetBeans are an excellentn; starting point as that is a honking great Java application.ik http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/docs/NETBEANS34_INSTALLATION_GUIDE_OPENVMS.HTML O The minimum recommended there is 128MB & a 500MHz CPU for best performance it'ss 256MB per user & 667MHz CPU.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'AzurF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:26:49 -0500cA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>r7 Subject: Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ?5. Message-ID: <3e56291a$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  I The V1.3 release brings the X11 client and server up to X11R6.6.  It will K only be available on Alpha, and won't install on older versions of OpenVMS. L Until now, the client bits have always been built against V6.2 with very oldH compilers.  To take advantage of newer compilers and CRTL routines, thisG just had to change.  Along with the upgrade comes features you may haven- missed - LBX, XAUTH and Kerberos for example.i  J Motif itself is still based on V1.2x or so.  I hope we can get to V2.x forG both Motif and CDE, but there is not a schedule or committment yet - asi- Itanium porting is the next thing being done.       ; "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messages- news:Lf75a.15238$Rb4.192871@news.chello.at... H > Does someone already has experiences with the (probably still in beta). > MOTIF V1.3 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (only) ? > I > I was quite surprised to see the MOTIF V1.3 documentation pop up on the8I > VMS doc site yesterday. I didn't even expect a V1.3 to come (to be fair.J > I expected a V2.0 sometimes in the next two years ;-), but after readingK > the rolling roadmaps (where it states a June 2003 date) it seems, that iteD > is the first time, that I see the docs pop up on the official siteF > (remember, still no TCPIP V5.3 doc there) before the software is out > (at least somewhere ;-). >l > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERd' > Network and OpenVMS system specialistn > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 08:05:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ? 3 Message-ID: <MgERoPlW3ogg@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  r In article <3e56291a$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> writes:  L > Motif itself is still based on V1.2x or so.  I hope we can get to V2.x forI > both Motif and CDE, but there is not a schedule or committment yet - as    Hooray !  That would be great.  / > Itanium porting is the next thing being done.a  ) Actually, news of that has leaked out :-)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:09:43 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)H Subject: [TCPware V5.6-2 = BIND 8.1.2]  How to get rid of error messages3 Message-ID: <Xed5a.21643$Rb4.276506@news.chello.at>   G I've a TCPware BIND server with dynamic updates allowed (to allow a NT5, to register its SRV RR itself).i  $ But it doesn't work (as expected ;-)  < NT does register some records but not all, because it can't.. And so periodically there are a lot of OPCOMs.  G named: error processing update packet id 55297 from [192.168.1.16].2796oG named: error processing update packet id 55809 from [192.168.1.16].2798"G named: error processing update packet id 56321 from [192.168.1.16].28024G named: error processing update packet id 56833 from [192.168.1.16].2804rG named: error processing update packet id 57345 from [192.168.1.16].2806aG named: error processing update packet id 58625 from [192.168.1.16].2812uG named: error processing update packet id 59137 from [192.168.1.16].2814 G named: error processing update packet id 59649 from [192.168.1.16].2816eG named: error processing update packet id 60161 from [192.168.1.16].2818iG named: error processing update packet id 60673 from [192.168.1.16].2820oG named: error processing update packet id 61185 from [192.168.1.16].2822nG named: error processing update packet id 61697 from [192.168.1.16].2824dG named: error processing update packet id 62209 from [192.168.1.16].2826bG named: error processing update packet id 62721 from [192.168.1.16].2828nG named: error processing update packet id 63233 from [192.168.1.16].2830aG named: error processing update packet id 63745 from [192.168.1.16].2832tG named: error processing update packet id 64257 from [192.168.1.16].2834sG named: error processing update packet id 64769 from [192.168.1.16].2836 G named: error processing update packet id 65281 from [192.168.1.16].2838fJ named: Sent NOTIFY for "langstoeger.at IN SOA" (langstoeger.at); 2 NS, 2 AA named: approved AXFR from [192.168.1.2].1751 for "langstoeger.at"NC named: zone transfer of "langstoeger.at" (IN) to [192.168.1.2].1751 B named: approved AXFR from [192.168.1.16].2848 for "langstoeger.at"D named: zone transfer of "langstoeger.at" (IN) to [192.168.1.16].2848    G Why is NT5 using DDNS update packets which TCPware doesn't understand ?o? Is there a way to trace them better/at-all (except a sniffer) ?i  L Is it TCPware's or M$'s fault ? Will a BIND 9 work ? (TCPIP V5.3 has BIND 9)    1 But to top it, NT5 is destroying the domain also:   , A restart (not reload) of the primary gives:  0 named: starting.  named 8.1.2 for TCPware V5.6-2 named:  Process Software@ named: master zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" (IN) loaded (serial 1)K named: master zone "1.168.192.in-addr.arpa" (IN) loaded (serial 2003012601) P named: owner name "gc._msdcs.langstoeger.at" IN (primary) is invalid - rejecting- named: LANGSTOEGER_AT.DB:34: owner name error / named: LANGSTOEGER_AT.DB:34: Database error (A)pS named: master zone "langstoeger.at" (IN) rejected due to errors (serial 2003021954) + named: cache zone "" (IN) loaded (serial 0) , named: listening on [192.168.1.3].53 (EWA-0)* named: listening on [127.0.0.1].53 (LPB-0)2 named: Forwarding source address is [0.0.0.0].1233 named: Ready to answer queries.b  3 btw: a reload doesn't show this problems (but why):r2 named: Forwarding source address is [0.0.0.0].1229 named: Ready to answer queries.l  C It seems to only work, when you run the NT5 as primary obviously...o   -- m Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERr% Network and OpenVMS system specialisth E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:32:54 -0500u# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>5L Subject: RE: [TCPware V5.6-2 = BIND 8.1.2]  How to get rid of error messages: Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKENICMAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Peter LANGSTOEGER [mailto:peter@langstoeger.at] + > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:10 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComdI > Subject: [TCPware V5.6-2 = BIND 8.1.2] How to get rid of error messages. >  > I > I've a TCPware BIND server with dynamic updates allowed (to allow a NT5 ! > to register its SRV RR itself).l > & > But it doesn't work (as expected ;-) > > > NT does register some records but not all, because it can't.0 > And so periodically there are a lot of OPCOMs. > I > named: error processing update packet id 55297 from [192.168.1.16].2796 I > named: error processing update packet id 55809 from [192.168.1.16].2798eI > named: error processing update packet id 56321 from [192.168.1.16].2802iI > named: error processing update packet id 56833 from [192.168.1.16].2804tI > named: error processing update packet id 57345 from [192.168.1.16].2806eI > named: error processing update packet id 58625 from [192.168.1.16].28120I > named: error processing update packet id 59137 from [192.168.1.16].2814tI > named: error processing update packet id 59649 from [192.168.1.16].2816aI > named: error processing update packet id 60161 from [192.168.1.16].2818aI > named: error processing update packet id 60673 from [192.168.1.16].2820aI > named: error processing update packet id 61185 from [192.168.1.16].2822 I > named: error processing update packet id 61697 from [192.168.1.16].2824iI > named: error processing update packet id 62209 from [192.168.1.16].2826gI > named: error processing update packet id 62721 from [192.168.1.16].2828sI > named: error processing update packet id 63233 from [192.168.1.16].2830tI > named: error processing update packet id 63745 from [192.168.1.16].2832aI > named: error processing update packet id 64257 from [192.168.1.16].2834oI > named: error processing update packet id 64769 from [192.168.1.16].2836 I > named: error processing update packet id 65281 from [192.168.1.16].2838aL > named: Sent NOTIFY for "langstoeger.at IN SOA" (langstoeger.at); 2 NS, 2 AC > named: approved AXFR from [192.168.1.2].1751 for "langstoeger.at"hE > named: zone transfer of "langstoeger.at" (IN) to [192.168.1.2].1751tD > named: approved AXFR from [192.168.1.16].2848 for "langstoeger.at"F > named: zone transfer of "langstoeger.at" (IN) to [192.168.1.16].2848 >  > I > Why is NT5 using DDNS update packets which TCPware doesn't understand ?uA > Is there a way to trace them better/at-all (except a sniffer) ?w  P The SRV records are kinda non-standard for one. They're actually specified in anO RFC that wasn't implemented by many DNS servers. Without knowing more specificso9 about the RR data being rejected it's hard for me to say.. > N > Is it TCPware's or M$'s fault ? Will a BIND 9 work ? (TCPIP V5.3 has BIND 9) >  > 3 > But to top it, NT5 is destroying the domain also:  > . > A restart (not reload) of the primary gives: > 2 > named: starting.  named 8.1.2 for TCPware V5.6-2 > named:  Process SoftwareB > named: master zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" (IN) loaded (serial 1)M > named: master zone "1.168.192.in-addr.arpa" (IN) loaded (serial 2003012601) R > named: owner name "gc._msdcs.langstoeger.at" IN (primary) is invalid - rejecting/ > named: LANGSTOEGER_AT.DB:34: owner name errorU1 > named: LANGSTOEGER_AT.DB:34: Database error (A)nU > named: master zone "langstoeger.at" (IN) rejected due to errors (serial 2003021954) - > named: cache zone "" (IN) loaded (serial 0) . > named: listening on [192.168.1.3].53 (EWA-0), > named: listening on [127.0.0.1].53 (LPB-0)4 > named: Forwarding source address is [0.0.0.0].1233! > named: Ready to answer queries.z > 5 > btw: a reload doesn't show this problems (but why):e4 > named: Forwarding source address is [0.0.0.0].1229! > named: Ready to answer queries.  > E > It seems to only work, when you run the NT5 as primary obviously...b   	Hmm,   D 	I've never seen this pproblem myself BUT I think the problem is theF 	underscore in the owner name.  There's been a lot of discussion aboutE 	the use of underscores in DNS names. It's technically not allowed byjG 	the RFC's yet has been widely used over time. I THINK there's a configs> 	option in more recent versions of BIND to allow underscores.    	HTH,i   	Dan >  > -- p > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERe' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.102 ************************uestion.  If the RMS sysgenu
 parametersK > > are left to default values, which are mostly zero, and a program is not G > > written to take advantage of any of the RMS stuff mentio