1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 22 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 104       Contents:3 Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_?= % DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG  Re: GCC for VMS  RE: GCC for VMS  Googlism for OpenVMSP HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across RAIDH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyD Re: Idea for installing VMS without a 512byte CD-ROM...Will it work? Re: information with file  Re: information with file ' Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix " Re: Madison, successor to McKinleyB Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the P Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE?= releases  and  proP Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_re?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?? Re: Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium_releases_and_products  Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMSP Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly  vs.  IBM  RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? $ Re: VMSclusters vs. others' clusters$ Re: VMSclusters vs. others' clusters  Re: What happened to Microsoft ?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 04:56 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) < Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_?=- Message-ID: <22FEB200304563857@gerg.tamu.edu>   5 susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes...  }Official Name> }The following is the official name for OpenVMS on the ItaniumE }platform. This is the full name of the product and to be used in any / }title, header, and first mention in body text.  } # }"hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"    8 Once again confirming something everybody already knows:  A The people who decide these things are complete and utter morons.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:33:02 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG. Subject: DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG0 Message-ID: <00A1BDFF.6A072EFD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  D The pthread.h file contains a comment about defining an "environmentE variable" called PTHREAD_CONFIG.  According to the comments, defining G this to "METER=1" should cause DECthreads to record all synchronization 
 operations.     G When I define it (DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC) and run a DECthreads application,  I get:  0   %PTHREAD_CONFIG keyword "METER=1" is not valid  E Can this be used and, if so, how?  Where does it record the synchron-  ization operations?      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:01:11 -0500 * From: Brian Hechinger <wonko@4amlunch.net> Subject: Re: GCC for VMS( Message-ID: <20030222160111.GB1772@MIKE>  3 > > A copy of the old PROGIS stuff is available at: 4 > >    ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/gcc-for-alpha/ > H > The last GCC version for Alpha, 2.8.0 was known to generate bad object > code. Use caution.  K if you are a Hobbyist user, you can freely use DEC C, which IMHO, kicks the  snot out of GCC anyway.  ;)    -brian --  ( "I AM NOT CHRIS ROCK!"		--Dave Chappelle   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:00:18 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: GCC for VMS9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEJHGKAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- 2 >From: Brian Hechinger [mailto:wonko@4amlunch.net]* >Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:01 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: GCC for VMS  >  > 4 >> > A copy of the old PROGIS stuff is available at:5 >> >    ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/gcc-for-alpha/  >>I >> The last GCC version for Alpha, 2.8.0 was known to generate bad object  >> code. Use caution.  > L >if you are a Hobbyist user, you can freely use DEC C, which IMHO, kicks the >snot out of GCC anyway.  ;)  J It has been some time since I looked at it, but gcc has lexical scoping, I didn't know that DEC C had it.  >  >-brian  >-- ) >"I AM NOT CHRIS ROCK!"		--Dave Chappelle  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2003 05:33:51 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) Subject: Googlism for OpenVMS < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302220533.44879b7c@posting.google.com>  4 http://www.googlism.com/index.htm?ism=openvms&type=1   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:54:29 -0500 & From: "Daniel Allen" <dallen@nist.gov>Y Subject: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across RAID : Message-ID: <BCEGLBGJDODLELBJIADKKEJACFAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]* > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:47 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5 >  >  > "henry g." wrote:  > >  > > Thanks David.  > > H > > This was a little complex, most of the engineers I spoke with didn'tE > > know the answer for certain... we all speculated but yours is the 9 > > first with actual hands-on experience in this matter.  > >  > > Thanks again!  >  > Any time.  > @ > ...but that said, consider: HBVS *IS* RAID, RAID-1 to be exactJ > (shadowing/mirroring). Shadow-sets can be bound into volume-sets. ShouldB > anything happen to a shadow-set (like lose all the members), the > volume-set goes *PIFT*.  > D > That's why I prefer using mirrored stripe-sets that are mounted asI > single-volume disk devices. Stripe for capacity, mirror for redundancy. C > Watch your FAILEDSET and SPARESET, and set your mirror-set member $ > replacement policy as appropriate. >  > --   > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/   	David,   I 	Your comment caught my eye and led me to ask myself "how does VMS (HSxx) G 	volume shadowing and striping compare (performance/price/feature) with A 	current hardware commodity RAID offerings?". I haven't had a VMS E 	cluster with HS disks in a LONG time so I'm not current with today's I 	state of the art. If I understand your comment, you are suggesting using G 	HS based striping (RAID 0) and mirroring (RAID 1) to get big redundant F 	volumes. What is the advantage of that config to a commodity RAID boxH 	setup for RAID 0/1?. I've been sort of under the impression that modern? 	HS controllers where basically cluster aware RAID controllers.    	TIA   	Dan   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:54:20 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 7 Message-ID: <w8F5a.302$O41.77404@twister.austin.rr.com>   ( CBFalconer (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) wrote: : B : I have been trying to come up with a firm, past or present, that : was simultaneously:  :  :   1. Profitable." :   2. Considered a good employer.$ :   3. Appreciated by its customers.) :   4. Appreciated by the general public. % :   5. Not a closed family operation.  : A : and (until the fire) the only one I could come up with was that A : fabric manufacturer in Lynn, Massachusetts.  Can't remember the @ : name offhand.  Now it is missing qualification 1, but with any : luck that will change. :   C Malden Mills, in Lawrence, MA. Its CEO's code of ethics is compared D to Enron's Ken Lay in the following article that originally appeared in the Washington Post:   5    http://www.torah.org/features/firstperson/ceo.html .    A CEO Who Lives By What's Right - Torah.org  G   "In this anxious hour of pink-slip dread, it is restoring to think of @    Aaron Feuerstein, a Massachusetts manufacturer who prizes his/    employees and risks profits on their behalf.   A    The CEO of Malden Mills, located in Lawrence, the 23rd poorest F    community in the country, stepped clear of the greedy stereotype ofI    his kind in 1995 when, just before Christmas, his factory burned down. D    Rather than taking the insurance money and retiring or moving theI    plant to some Third World country, he promptly announced that he would G    rebuild. He gave bonuses to the help and paid them while they waited      for the factory reopening..."  K There are still a few people who believe that "business ethics" should not  " be an industrial-strengh oxymoron:  <    http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/pagana/mg312/daviss.html    Profits from Principle   ;    http://www.jonentine.com/articles/business_with_soul.htm B    Hamline Journal of Law and Public Policy, BUSINESS WITH A SOUL:4    A REEXAMINATION OF WHAT COUNTS IN BUSINESS ETHICS)    by Marianne M. Jennings and Jon Entine   G The New York Times and PBS' Frontline series investigated, McWane Inc., @ a company that places profits ahead of the lives of its workers:  :    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/national/08PIPE.html?    pagewanted=all&position=top.    At a Texas Foundry, an Indifference to Life  F McWane, Inc. was founded by J.R. McWane, who objected to the operationF of American Cast Iron Pipe Company, called ACIPCO, on the Golden Rule:  J    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/workplace/etc/script.html0    frontline: a dangerous business: script | PBS      2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 02:10:39 -0500 * From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.22.07.10.36.244409@nospam.invalid>   5 On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 04:26:36 +0000, CBFalconer wrote:   ! > "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote: 4 >> Russell Wallace <rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net> wrote:. >> > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >>  G >> >> I thought the argument was about predatory proprietary companies?  >> >H >> > Not from my side it isn't. My argument all along has been preciselyH >> > that whether you want to say one company or another is "predatory",J >> > "evil", "a monopoly" etc etc (in practice, those labels are earned byE >> > being successful, not by being nasty) isn't what really matters.  >>  J >> OK, this is different.  I don't recall ever seeing Godwin-bait before . >> . . > F > I have been trying to come up with a firm, past or present, that was > simultaneously:  >  >   1. Profitable." >   2. Considered a good employer.$ >   3. Appreciated by its customers.@ >   4. Appreciated by the general public. 5. Not a closed family >   operation. > H > and (until the fire) the only one I could come up with was that fabricI > manufacturer in Lynn, Massachusetts.  Can't remember the name offhand.  H > Now it is missing qualification 1, but with any luck that will change.  , Malden Mills.  But are they publicly traded?  C There was a time when Delta Airlines met all of the above criteria.    --   --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net # (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 06:13 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly - Message-ID: <22FEB200306131281@gerg.tamu.edu>   . "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> writes...6 }On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 04:26:36 +0000, CBFalconer wrote:G }> I have been trying to come up with a firm, past or present, that was  }> simultaneously: }>   }>   1. Profitable. # }>   2. Considered a good employer. % }>   3. Appreciated by its customers. A }>   4. Appreciated by the general public. 5. Not a closed family  }>   operation.  }>  I }> and (until the fire) the only one I could come up with was that fabric J }> manufacturer in Lynn, Massachusetts.  Can't remember the name offhand. I }> Now it is missing qualification 1, but with any luck that will change.  } - }Malden Mills.  But are they publicly traded?  } D }There was a time when Delta Airlines met all of the above criteria. }--  }--John   " How about Tootsie Roll Industries.  G The Gordons (who, between the two of them, are Charman, CEO, President, G and COO) own about 35% of the company - so that is not a "closed family G operation", but they do have what you might call very strong influence. K I'm not certain how it rates on point 2, but I havn't heard any complaints. C It is certainly profitable. And who doesn't like a Tootsie Roll, or D Junior Mints? I certainly appreciate the occasional consumption of a$ product from their line of products.  E Aslo, for at least some of the time period that it existed, DEC might  qualify.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 03 10:23:18 -0800/ From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 2 Message-ID: <685.182T920T6234425@kltpzyxm.invalid>  H In article <3e561a14.469520114@news.eircom.net> rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:   E >As for Marty's rhetorical question: I think it self-evident that the C >"guilty" referred to in my signature are those who have done evil, D >not those whom the government has decided to attack for the "crime" >of being too successful.   E I think that's the whole point of the discussion.  We're arguing over ! which group Microsoft belongs in.    --, /~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)= \ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. @  X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.F / \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 03:21:17 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.com Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <3e56ecad$0$198$75868355@news.frii.net>   E In alt.folklore.computers Greg Menke <gregm-news@toadmail.com> wrote:   H > Why does a consumer need to wait?  If they desire convienence and wish@ > not to be involved, perhaps- but nothing is stopping them from3 > compiling their own version of the fixed "stuff".   F Once you fix it yourself, you are then out of sync with the particular) distribution's patch and upgrade methods.   I Believe me, I've walked into places with dozens of Linux machines, no two  alike. --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:40:36 GMT ) From: Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ) Message-ID: <3E5753E0.96E5AF46@yahoo.com>    CBFalconer wrote:  > B > I have been trying to come up with a firm, past or present, that > was simultaneously:  >  >   1. Profitable." >   2. Considered a good employer.$ >   3. Appreciated by its customers.) >   4. Appreciated by the general public. % >   5. Not a closed family operation.   E Kodak, for a long time.  Not so much any more, though.  Actually, I'm H aware of lots of companies like this, and have had the privilege to workB for a couple.  Gresham's law seems to apply in business as well as economics, however.    ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 14:37:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 6 Message-ID: <b381uk$1j80pf$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <3e56f03c$0$198$75868355@news.frii.net>,  	rmk@rmkhome.com writes: > F > With the big Linux bug continuing to be that Linux NFS does not play > well with others.  >   C Neither does Linux LPR, but then that's the price for NIH Syndrome.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:34:22 GMT ' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ) Message-ID: <3E578CFD.1D906891@yahoo.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > CBFalconer wrote: D > > I have been trying to come up with a firm, past or present, that > > was simultaneously:  > >  > >   1. Profitable.$ > >   2. Considered a good employer.& > >   3. Appreciated by its customers.+ > >   4. Appreciated by the general public. ' > >   5. Not a closed family operation.  > F > The large pharmaceutical firms are generally extremely well regarded > in all of the above.  9 Not item 4.  Consider their general efforts to circumvent A generics, and their pricing.  Compare drug cost in Canada and the  US.    > ' > IBM would probably also fit the bill.   ; They used to be classified as Microsoft is now, but 1 and 2 > certainly applied.  Then fouling up 1 caused them to dump many; employees, so 2 is gone.  Note my original qualification of  'simultaneously'.    --  < Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. :    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:15:19 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>M Subject: Re: Idea for installing VMS without a 512byte CD-ROM...Will it work? 6 Message-ID: <b37t5f$1iln8i$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  > "Robert Lawrence" <robl@no-no-badpuppy.com> schreef in bericht7 news:eebf2e9b.0302212235.21d31b41@posting.google.com... E > I have a friend that gave me a VAXstation 3100/M30, which should be G > delivered Monday. This machine has a hard drive expansion box, but no E > CD-ROM.  This machine also is missing an OS.  I tossed around a few C > ideas and came up with the following method of intalling OpenVMS. C > (Keep in mind that my only exposure to VAX & VMS was as a user at ( > university, so I am learning as I go.) > D > * Install Linux on a PC, with a SCSI host adpater and an extra 1GB
 > SCSI drive. F > * From Linux do a: dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/dev/sda1  (copy VMS media to
 > raw device) = > * Remove the drive, set the SCSI ID to that of a VAX CD-ROM H > * Install SCSI hard drive in VAXstation and direct it to boot from the > new drive  > * Continue with VMS install  > D > Will this work?  If I dump the CD contents byte for byte to a SCSIE > hard drive on a PC, will the VAX be able to read and boot from that  > drive?  8 Is the original VAX/VMS CD a bootable distribution then?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:08:07 +0100 < From: "julien courtemanche" <julien.courtemanche@wanadoo.fr>" Subject: Re: information with file3 Message-ID: <b37b55$24g$1@news-reader10.wanadoo.fr>    In my case, E the primary use of this feature is the browsing of web directory with  listing.  
 for example : ' titi.lis    "invoice for customer titi" 3 toto.ps "invoice for customer toto : business form"  .....     G "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> a crit dans le message de * news: 3E56D2C6.1AC354B1@vl.videotron.ca... > Don Sykes wrote: > > J > > User defined, file meta-data is something I wish existed too. It would  > > be nice to be able to do a : > >         dir/comment 
 > > and get : A > >         OURPRODUCT.EXE "Debug version, for use with shareable  OURSHARE22.EXE" 9 > >         DATAFILE.DAT "Created by OUR_ALT_PRODUCT.EXE" > > >         HOUSE.GIF "Copied from alphase.com/aex/design.gif" >   > To me, trhe real use would be: > J > fetch_http: http://www.chocolate.com/strange/url/with/hidden/recipe.html > L > and have the URL stored somewhere in the file meta data so that a dir/full( > would reveal where the file came from.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:33:20 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: information with file/ Message-ID: <3E56D2C6.1AC354B1@vl.videotron.ca>    Don Sykes wrote: > H > User defined, file meta-data is something I wish existed too. It would > be nice to be able to do a : >         dir/comment  > and get : O >         OURPRODUCT.EXE "Debug version, for use with shareable OURSHARE22.EXE" 7 >         DATAFILE.DAT "Created by OUR_ALT_PRODUCT.EXE" < >         HOUSE.GIF "Copied from alphase.com/aex/design.gif"   To me, trhe real use would be:  H fetch_http: http://www.chocolate.com/strange/url/with/hidden/recipe.html  J and have the URL stored somewhere in the file meta data so that a dir/full& would reveal where the file came from.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2003 05:53:03 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)0 Subject: Re: Initiating Command on VMS from Unix< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0302220553.11ab3fbc@posting.google.com>  w vibroplex@mindspring.com (Derek Cohn/WB0TUA) wrote in message news:<d7d0c297.0302190924.73a14788@posting.google.com>...  > Dear All,  > ? > I'm working on a VMS Alpha platform and have a question about % > initiating a VMS command from Unix.  > H > We have to copy a file from Unix to VMS and then initiate a process on > VMS to handle the file.  > D > We have a simple UNIX script that copies the file from UNIX to VMSB > using FTP.  However, we'd like to add a line to that script thatG > activates a DCL command on VMS after the file is successfully copied.  > # > Can any of you help me with this?  > 	 > Thanks!  >  > Derek Cohn > DCohn@express-scripts.com     , Multinet TCP/IP comes with the secure shell.   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2003 01:45:45 -0800' From: icerq4a@spray.se (David Svensson) + Subject: Re: Madison, successor to McKinley = Message-ID: <734da31c.0302220145.751882b5@posting.google.com>   8 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message > K > Well, sure.  Hell, if McKinley had been willing to settle for SPARC-level < > performance, it too could have consumed SPARC-level power.  C You just can't put power into a processor and think it will perform C better, it has to run too. A Sparc with 130W would not work at all. E Power is a problem, but it is also impressive that a CPU actually can  run at 130W!  L > So when Deerfield rolls around, it'll perform a bit worse than the currentM > high-end McKinley (same clock speed, but Deerfield has only half the cache) N > and use about half the power.  Unfortunately, as a lower-end entrant it willJ > be competing with P4s, Xeons, Hammers, and the lower-end POWER4+ entriesI > that will use about the same amount of power and run rings around it in  > performance.  # Why would they run rings around it? ? Intel also said that a 1.5Ghz Deerfield will be made this year.   E Those lower-end POWER4+ will also be slower. I have said this before, ? but the Power4 gains very much with it's off-chip large caches. : Without that large off-chip cache they are not impressive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:11:52 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)K Subject: Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600 L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2202030711530001@user-uinj4lr.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <01KSPBQQUVTW9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   H >> Are the memory test errors correctable or uncorrectable?  Once VMS is2 >> up, you will ride right over corrected errors.  > & >Once VMS is up, I notice no problems.  G Correctable errors still result in error log entries.  There's no other " visible indication that I know of.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:48:49 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the/ Message-ID: <v5d44qrcqghk1e@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   K > How does HP-UX plan to annonced itself when it boots on that IA64 thing ?   I HP-UX has been booting on "that IA64 thing" for a long time. It is called  HP-UX 11i version 1.5 or 1.6.    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 05:27 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE?= releases  and  pro - Message-ID: <22FEB200305273668@gerg.tamu.edu>   d In article <3e569c14.18587439@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes...- }On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:39:32 -0400, JF Mezei ) }<jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  } N }>IA64 is NOT industry standard. Please, put that into everyone's head at HP.  } A }I completely agree with you, but at the same time it's a logical  }marketing move on HP's part.  } E }As I was explaining at length in an earlier thread :) - the computer D }industry is one in which network effects are very strong; there's aF }big advantage in using the same chip, operating system etc that a lotG }of other people are using. That's why VMS enthusiasts keep calling for G }more marketing - apart from convincing people of its intrinsic merits, G }a typical customer will be more likely to buy the product if he thinks , }a lot of other people are hearing about it. } F }Now, I agree there's no longer any prospect of IA64 becoming industryE }standard, but it would be to HP's advantage to convince people there : }is, so it's logical that they're still trying to do that.  I The problem is that everybody except a few unusually stupiud analysts and H various marketing people (and the people who picked this name) know that it isn't "industry standard".   < The only thing this name will get is to get people laughing.  D If McDonalds renamed their chicken sandwich to be "Industry StandardE Hamburger" would more people who want a hamburger buy it because they A beleive it to be the standard hamburger, or would people laugh at A McDonalds for being morons? I would bet on the laughing option if G I were you. Chicken is not the industry standard hamburger, and Itanium ' is not the industry standard processor.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:09:49 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_re?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q? / Message-ID: <v5d1rmgdpu4tdb@corp.supernews.com>    > James Gessling wrote:  > A >> "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message : >> news:857e9e41.0302211053.4c43b5c8@posting.google.com... >>% >>> "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"  >>>  >>@ >> No offence Sue, but yuch.  And why is "hp" lowercase?  And as? >> a former AMD employee I hate the term "Industry Standard" as 7 >> a code word for Intel.  Can't they just say "Intel"?   0 "hp" has to be lowercase now by corporate edict.   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 14:51:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) H Subject: Re: Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium_releases_and_products3 Message-ID: <hKhkLqH8i47q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <857e9e41.0302211053.4c43b5c8@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:   B > Please keep in mind that this has just come out and may not have > reached all parts of HP yet.   > From: 	Hanley, William  ) > Sent:	Friday, February 21, 2003 1:23 PM $ > To:	OpenVMS Systems Software GroupC > Cc:	Sidwell, Bill; Smiddy, Karen; Jansen, Elaine; Larrabee, Mary;  > Howard, Stephen H > Subject:	Official OpenVMS name for the Itanium releases and  products  $ > "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"   6 I can avoid saying "Industry Standard" just as well as6 I avoid saying "Open", but I relish the opportunity to6 see all those journalists write "Industry Standard" in this context :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 14:28:41 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <mDTGb+mUKtME@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <c5cf6e8.0302211156.c6b168a@posting.google.com>, baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) writes:y > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> wrote in message news:<3e54e126$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>...  >> Dear Troll, > 8 > Troll? Talk about the pot that calls the kettle black.  8 I have seen useful technical posts from Fred Kleinsorge.' I have not seen those from Baby Peanut.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:42:00 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS ' Message-ID: <3E56F188.143C716E@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear Newsgroup,  > * > Please excuse me if this is a duplicate. > E > You know that voice inside that tells you to take the high road and ; > not take things personally and to be politically correct?  >  > Well I am ignoring it! > G > This is personal, I believe in VMS and I believe in our customers and @ > if Peanut thinks that this kind of message can intimidate thisE > newsgroup or the VMS customer base they are in need of some serious  > help.   D It's never been my personal intent to intimidate. However, I *TRULY*C wish I knew how to get he point across to OpenVMS's management that < stealth marketing ain't gonna cut it: never has, never will.  = > We have been pronounced dead by some of the best and we are E > still here.  Do you honestly think we have never heard this before?   E As I have stated it, my intent has been the VMS is dead only if VMS's F management insists on maintaining the status quo rather than doing theG right thing and giving OpenVMS the exposure it deserves so VMS can rake B in the profits we all know it can make the stockholders can get heF return on their investment that they expect. (Funny how all that falls in together, eh?)     > I do have some questions like. > 7 > 1.  What is the purpose of posting this type of note?   F All else aside, I think it's supposed to have been a reality check forC the faithful. Despite what we know OpenVMS can do for the market at F large and for the stockholders, is it REALLY reasonable to expect that@ VMS's Management is going to cave in to the world-wide calls for marketing?    ? > 2. Do you have a better technology to recommend, maybe a more 7 > reliable, secure technology with superior clustering?   A I can only suggest the much touted, but never realized Affordable - OpenVMS as an alternative to OpenVMS Classic.   C > 3. Have you ever used OpenVMS or is this simply trying to throw a  > skunk?  C I used to live in a part of the western suburbs of Chicago known as A "skunk alley" due to the persistent and wide-spread grub problem.   G > You can help or you can get out of the way, we have customers to take 
 > care of.  D Don't do this if you value your job, but if it was up to me I'd postC that facing the desk of every executive in charge of OpenVMS, *AND* 4 force them to recite it 50 times, three times a day.  D Sadly, I'm afraid the fact remains that unless VMS management can be< brought into the real world, VMS's ultimate fate is sealed.   F If you enjoy having a home and food to eat, you know what you must do.E Zig Ziglar put it this way: "The heart is a wonderful organ. It pumps G blood to every part of the body. Y'know the first place the heart pumps G blood to? The heart." If the heart is healthy, it can serve the rest of F the body. If the heart is troubled, the body suffers. Likewise, if youG are healthy, you can serve the needs of your family. If your livelihood A goes down the drain with VMS, ... do I REALLY need to finish that  thought?   --   David J. DachteraV dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 14:11:58 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 6 Message-ID: <b380fe$1j80pf$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ) In article <3E577653.4D680BE4@127.0.0.1>,o+ 	Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:o > John Smith wrote:  >> ...A >> A simple premise really. Why isn't it done? Why keep all VMS'soI >> fabulous features and strengths a secret from companies the world-overo- >> that could really benefit from them today?o > E > Commercial and military reasons. Those that could say the most mustoG > remain silent, it is the way of the world. The examples are unseen sooJ > the marketing has to be based on something else. I guess folks here have< > made their opinions heard in the surveys announced here...  D Hardly.  Most military procurements are public information availableC through a simple(?) FOI request.  Especially when you consider thatiF they usually start as a public RFP published in the CBD.  I have neverF been at a government site, including the pentagon where the brand nameE of the system or the OS was classified information.  If DEC/COMPAQ/HPeD really cared there is nothing stopping them from publishing numbers,F customer names and types of systems being run on VMS.  They choose not to and rest is history.S   > H > However, yesterday I was at a project closure meeting for some upgradeJ > work, hardware and software. They were so happy with it, that some stuffH > they tried to do under NT, they are moving BACK to the VMS server, andF > are heralding this as a major success story. As the news will spreadA > inside their organization, VMS gets marketing that no amount ofeI > mailshots could achieve. Is it enough to turn the tide? Time will tell.sG > Did I get my head out the door after the meeting? Just about... But IpH > also felt embarrassed, because I was just doing my job, part of a team	 > effort.- >   > And will HP make this success public, in glowing details, in a> media that someone outside the VMS faithful will actually see?   bill   -- mJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:29:27 +0000t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSh) Message-ID: <3E578947.F7848E2B@127.0.0.1>w   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > + > In article <3E577653.4D680BE4@127.0.0.1>,-4 >         Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > > John Smith wrote:m  G > > Commercial and military reasons. Those that could say the most mustsI > > remain silent, it is the way of the world. The examples are unseen so L > > the marketing has to be based on something else. I guess folks here have> > > made their opinions heard in the surveys announced here... > F > Hardly.  Most military procurements are public information availableE > through a simple(?) FOI request.  Especially when you consider that H > they usually start as a public RFP published in the CBD.  I have neverH > been at a government site, including the pentagon where the brand nameG > of the system or the OS was classified information.  If DEC/COMPAQ/HPEF > really cared there is nothing stopping them from publishing numbers,H > customer names and types of systems being run on VMS.  They choose not > to and rest is history.e  G Bill, I wish I could say more, but I'd lose my job *and* get prosecuted2: into the bargain. Heck, I'm even nervous saying that much.  v > >lJ > > However, yesterday I was at a project closure meeting for some upgradeL > > work, hardware and software. They were so happy with it, that some stuff .... > >f > @ > And will HP make this success public, in glowing details, in a@ > media that someone outside the VMS faithful will actually see?  B I'll be discussing this with our ambassador. They offered to writeC something for our internal glossies. There are also some commercial B sensitivities, so one hopes that the correct conclusions are drawn@ without having to state the obvious. This is a reflection of the technologies, not the people..   -- S? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesC nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 14:39:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: unix, was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly  vs.  IBM c6 Message-ID: <b3822c$1j80pf$5@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  3 In article <3e56f245$0$198$75868355@news.frii.net>,s 	rmk@rmkhome.com writes: > F > Linux is a constantly moving target. The only set in concrete driver@ > interfaces in the x86 UNIX world are probably Solaris and SCO.  @ For SYSV style maybe, but the BSD driver interface is stable and well documented as well.   bill   -- vJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 20:29:17 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <l3Ka4QqhabyT@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  W In article <01C2D9AF.BC0BA860@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: I > I ran into one thing the other day. Line mode. AFAIK, there's no way torH > use TPU/EVE if you're on an unsupported terminal. Installing VMS on anI > AS1000A before the DECWindows license and the networking were set up, IGC > needed to edit a file so I had to fall back on long forgotten EDT- > commands.i  F That is the problem -- the commands are different from normal EDT use.  F This issue is resolved by upgrading your editor to TECO which uses the1 same commands for line mode and full screen mode.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:45:02 GMTs% From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net>e( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <slrnb5ee8l.dfg.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   > In article <b096a4ee.0302212153.35567360@posting.google.com>,  Alan E. Feldman wrote: > F > Nokeypad mode: Cool for writing editable customized startup scripts.B > You can display any individual key definition and it displays inH > nokeypad commands. I don't know how to do that in EVE. How do you look! > at your key definitions in EVE?d  F The most important thing about nokeypad mode is it lets you get usefulB work done when you've telnetted in from a broken terminal emulator? that doesn't run the keypad right or from a laptop that doesn'tr# even have a keypad to begin with...t   --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 17:27:13 GMT- From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@nospam.rcn.com>w( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?> Message-ID: <Xns932A7EAFD58E9kenrbnsnrbnsncom@199.184.165.241>  ) Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> wrote in i5 news:slrnb5ee8l.dfg.rivie@Stench.no.domain (in part):o  H > The most important thing about nokeypad mode is it lets you get usefulD > work done when you've telnetted in from a broken terminal emulatorA > that doesn't run the keypad right or from a laptop that doesn't % > even have a keypad to begin with...  >   J I don't know about that... My main computer at home right now is a laptop H running XP. I telnet into Encompasserve using Tera Term Pro and can use L both Notes and EVE fine.  I just have to remember to hit the "Num Lock" key > while I'm in Notes and that "Shift-F6" is the "Do" Key in EVE.   Ken Robinson kenrbnsn1 (at) rcn (dot) com1 Out of Work OpenVMS System Manager Consultant :-(r* Looking in the NJ,NYC,Philly,NE PA area...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:21:39 +0100o" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>- Subject: Re: VMSclusters vs. others' clusterst6 Message-ID: <b37q14$1icikg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  = "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> schreef in berichtl7 news:b096a4ee.0302211728.514ae037@posting.google.com...  > Hello fellow VMS-ers,n >ME > Occasionally the topic of clusters comes up at work and I'd like toqE > say what makes VMSclusters so much better than others'. I know thatlD > VMSclusters go back to the 80's and that VMSclusters are the best. >nD > But I know very little about what others' clusters really do. I'veF > heard that Google has a cluster of thousands of Linux boxes. Is that' > true? How would VMS make that better?o > C > So what are the particular features of VMSclusters that sets themkE > apart from the rest, esp. Unix and Windows systems? If readers give H > good answers here I'll be well equipped to tell my coworkers about it. >s	 > Thanks.n >w > Alan E. FeldmanrH The word cluster is not precisely defined, in engineering terms that is.D IIRC Digital used to explain a cluster of systems as loosely coupledL computers that shared peripherals and resources. Not bad for marketing but aF lot of implementations fit that description. And I doubt that even theI designers of Beowolf clusters, nor of WNT clusters for that matter, woulde< want to put their design in the same class as a VMS cluster.  J An ordinary (non-privileged) user of a VMS cluster will immediately noticeK that all systems in the cluster have access to disks and tapes, and so does H a user and the applications (provided that access rights are provided of course).J Other manufacturers have implemented a similarly looking environment basedJ on NFS. The the average user there's hardly any difference, once it works.J In terms of availability, security there may be some important issues thatK you might to investigate (e.g. NFS is a UDP/IP application, just figure out  where the U stands for).  D Of course one can ask a few questions about the functionality of theK cluster. Like, how many cluster members can access a data disk concurrentlydJ (irrespective of how many users or applications). Or: how many systems canJ boor from one system disk? Another nice one: how is data integrity ensured9 for a given file, and records in that file, in a cluster?eK I'm sure that all vendors have answers to them, but only a few can point to K an architecture which proves that your data will be secure from corruption. J VMS clusters will provide that security,  IBM's parallel sysplex solutions2 as well but I'm not familiar with the IBM product.   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:48:27 GMTg# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>@- Subject: Re: VMSclusters vs. others' clusters6H Message-ID: <fZM5a.42708$UXa.15383@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messages# news:3E577A63.65B10CBE@127.0.0.1...> > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >tD > > Occasionally the topic of clusters comes up at work and I'd like toB > > say what makes VMSclusters so much better than others'. I know thatF > > VMSclusters go back to the 80's and that VMSclusters are the best. > > F > > But I know very little about what others' clusters really do. I'veC > > heard that Google has a cluster of thousands of Linux boxes. Iss that) > > true? How would VMS make that better?i > >oE > > So what are the particular features of VMSclusters that sets thempB > > apart from the rest, esp. Unix and Windows systems? If readers giveF > > good answers here I'll be well equipped to tell my coworkers about it.t >bF > I'm doing a UK based user event on this subject, why not come along? >tA > I made it my business to understand others' so called clusters,a currentrD > "technology". While they are making improvements, it still takes a whilesE > for me to stop laughing. I wasn't really going to include it in thesF > agenda, but if there is public demand, I could do a compare/contrastF > with a number of technologies. The "popular" ones are as you suspectA > pretty hopeless, but some of the more proprietary offerings are-B > interesting, but the definition and restrictions also need to be
 > understood.e >(B > I'm arguing the toss about the title for it "OpenVMS Clustering:E > Foundations of Reliability and Scalability", but I'm being badgeredu toF > lose the "OpenVMS" bit so that a wider audience books, attends, then > weep as they leave.l >e > Opinions?I    ; As you suggest, getting rid of OpenVMS in the title of youraE presentation is a good idea as it will attract more attendees. But ofaD course the logical and inevitable conclusion to your presentation isD 'You'd have to be insane if you didn't bet your business survival on, OpenVMS clusters. Nothing else comes close.'  B And as your Powerpoint slideshow closes out, play the song 'Nobody, Does It Better' and fade to an OpenVMS logo.  # Carly Simon---Nobody Does It Betteru Music by Marvin Hamlisch Lyrics by Carole Bayer Sager   Nobody does it betterd Makes me feel sad for the rest.D# Nobody does it half as good as you.i Baby, you're the best.  * I wasn't lookin' but somehow you found me.% I tried to hide from your love light,e- But like heaven above me the spy who loved me3' Is keepin' all my secrets safe tonight.s   And nobody does it betterh& Though sometimes I wish someone could.$ Nobody does it quite the way you do. Did you have to be so good?'  . The way that you hold me whenever you hold me.% There's some kind of magic inside you,2 That keeps me from runnin' but just keep it comin'( How'd you learn to do the things you do?   And nobody does it bettero Makes me feel sad for the rest.d# Nobody does it half as good as you..$ Baby, baby, darlin' you're the best. Baby you're the best.b Baby you're the best.m Baby you're the best.b Darlin' you're the best. Darlin' you're the best. Baby you're the best.f Baby you're the best.p   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 14:19:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)) Subject: Re: What happened to Microsoft ?r6 Message-ID: <b380tn$1j80pf$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  - In article <21FEB200306281067@gerg.tamu.edu>,n* 	carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:6 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes... > }Carl Perkins wrote:L > }> }Did they have a stock split ? or did its price really fall that much ? > }> g > }> It split 2 for 1. > } ' > }What was the purpose of that split ?i > E > Beats me. I suppose I could check the annual report and such, but IrG > don't really care. (I do own a few shares of MSFT, so I have the info5( > they send out stashed away somewhere.) >   @ I'm not a stock aanalyst, but my take on this isn't promising if0 you happen to be a MSFT holder (or maybe it is?)  D Everytime I have had a stock I held split int he past it was becauseE the value had risen to high to allow easy trading (ie. when the price D is high it greatly limits the potential buyers with the resources toC trade it.)  Some companies have kept their stock high precisely forn2 this reason, IBM several decades ago come to mind.  E What then of this??  It looks to me like MSFT is trying to make their E stock cheap enough so that it can be bought by mom & pop Internet DaylD traders.  People who will buy based on the name rather than any realC knowledge or understanding of the financials.  Why??  Well, it will F make it easier for people who are holding really large blocks of stockG to get out from under it if they see the value depreciating.  SomethingfA they couldn't do easily if the stock was still in the $100 range.r  B Otherwise, I can not think of any reason to split a stock that has slid as far as this one has.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2003 20:57:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)iG Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?s3 Message-ID: <xmZU730wtRTV@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  n In article <b096a4ee.0302211721.43429f08@posting.google.com>, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  E > A Unix Admin co-worker asked me what the big deal was about portingvG > VMS to Itanium. He says that NetBSD has been ported to numerous chips H > and that it's no big deal. I told him that I didn't really know. WouldG > any of the chip experts reading this care to comment? What is it that  > makes this port difficult?  : I have no idea whether chip experts would care to comment,# but some of the rest of us will :-)G  C While giant Itanium systems (presumably to be called Superdome) areiC not likely to be supported in the initial few releases (not exactlynC required for developers), you can bet that VMS Development has such E things in mind as they do the port and are making sure infrastructure2C for facilities specific to larger Alpha machines are also availableuB on Itanium in the future.  Ask your NetBSD friend how well it doesB in sharing a single multiprocessor system between different copies of various operating systems.e  B Unix systems also are notable for not choosing to provide anything1 like ASTs, RMS and in most cases full clustering.a   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2003 14:33:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?a6 Message-ID: <b381o1$1j80pf$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  = In article <b096a4ee.0302211721.43429f08@posting.google.com>,e1 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:c > Hello fellow VMS-ers,n > E > A Unix Admin co-worker asked me what the big deal was about portinghG > VMS to Itanium. He says that NetBSD has been ported to numerous chipsl > and that it's no big deal. t  C Your co-worker obviously has no idea what he's talking about.  HaveiB him come back and ask again after he has ported NetBSD to some newB architecture.  Even having been designed with portability in mind,4 porting NetBSD to a new architecture is not trivial.  H >                            I told him that I didn't really know. WouldG > any of the chip experts reading this care to comment? What is it that: > makes this port difficult?  D I would expect that reading the porting information that is probablyE available on the NetBSD site would give you a good idea.  And then in C the case of VMS add the fact that architectural portability was notcD one of the original design goals. (Although I understand that it hasE been added in the case of this third architectural port.  Am I right,o Fred?)   bill   -- TJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:45:54 -0500 ! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>dG Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?o+ Message-ID: <b384i7$suo$1@bob.news.rcn.net>X  J And perhaps he hasn't looked at the quality of the ports.  Most are serialD port terminals even though a framebuffer may be present, (thanks Mr.L Proprietary).  The Vax/NETBSD would corrupt the Prom on Vaxstation 4000 so IG would never autoboot until 1.6.  So yes Netbsd works on may platforms Ii& would not say it is nearly comparable.  H Although I have to say the PMAX DECSTATION port is REALLY. REALLY sweet.  J However since HP/CQ has no issue with Mr. Proprietary it will support most periperals well.   Dabe9 Alan E. Feldman <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagem7 news:b096a4ee.0302211721.43429f08@posting.google.com...  > Hello fellow VMS-ers,i >nE > A Unix Admin co-worker asked me what the big deal was about porting G > VMS to Itanium. He says that NetBSD has been ported to numerous chipseH > and that it's no big deal. I told him that I didn't really know. WouldG > any of the chip experts reading this care to comment? What is it thati > makes this port difficult? >eE > (NOTE: I'm not saying that it wasn't a great accomplishment to have/H > VMS boot on IPF. I'm just asking what it is that makes it difficult to > do.) >r	 > Thanks.S >E > Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.104 ************************