1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 107       Contents:6 A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks( Re: Alphastation error (but running VMS) Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT P Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS FreP Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS FreP Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS FreP RE: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across RP Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across RP Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across RP Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across RP Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R Re: HSZ50 Battery Qs Re: HSZ50 Battery QsH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyP Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases	and  prodP Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases and  prodP Police Forensic and Eliminating software.....Download Now       hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh' Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box  Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: URL change Re: URL change Re: URL change) [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:27:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ? Subject: A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks I Message-ID: <aqf6a.49254$b8v1.28393@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   F http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nf/20030221/tc_nf/2081 5&e=4   D Of course, the 64-megabit question is: How do you tell exactly whichC bottleneck is bugging a user of a particular computer system? There > are few good comparisons of overall computing performance. The> Standard Performance Evaluation Corporation, or SPEC, based in? Warranton, Virginia, has for years provided what has come to be F regarded as the standard measure of basic chip performance, by runningC a variety of sample algorithms against each new processor. But just C about everyone in the semiconductor industry knows the tests do not * really model what a user might want to do.    D How bad is the divide? Halfhill noted that cache memory has grown soD large that some processors can hold the entire test suite in on-chipF memory, masking any bus speed problems. And John D. McCalpin, a seniorF scientist with IBM (NYSE: IBM - news), wrote in a recent comparison ofE benchmarks and observed system performance that there is virtually no D correlation between real-world applications and standard benchmarks.B His conclusion: "In order to make this quantitative evaluation, weA need to gather and share a lot more data from real applications."     . Guess that's why Sun likes benchmarks so much.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:54:04 -0500 0 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com>1 Subject: Re: Alphastation error (but running VMS) / Message-ID: <v5i9gu46sntg8c@news.supernews.com>    parity should be on D make sure no device is using scsi id 7 (reserved for the controller) termination should be on   DT   -- Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory St. Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free 1-877 636 4332 Tel: USA 912 447 6622  Fax: USA 912 201 0402  http://www.islandco.com  dbturner@islandco.com    Ask about our DS10L special!4 36 DS10L 600Mhz systems in rack for only $25,000 !!!8 "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message7 news:FXS5a.13461$jR3.7015805@news1.news.adelphia.net...  > Dave Pampreen wrote:K > > A few months ago one of my 2 alphastation 250's stopped functioning.  I  haveL > > an error code that from the LED's on the back but it does not correspond to > > anything in the user guide.  > >  > > Anyone have any idea?  > > J > > The show the following, they switch back and forth (Looking at it from the  > > back, from left to right) 
 > > First:? > > 1111 1100  Console initialized (Final display if using ARC)  > > Second:  > > 1111 1011  ???????? % > > And lastly then go back to first. # > > 1111 1001 Memory test 2 failure  > > 5 > > I've also swapped out the memory with no success.  > >  > > Any ideas??? > > G > > This machine boots VMS 7.2-1 and has the latest firmware installed.  > >  > > Dave* > > e-mail dave.pampreen@us.add.gknplc.com > B > I do not know, but you can check the OpenVMS FAQ to see if it isD > mentioned.  I also crossposted this to comp.os.vms as there may be- > someone there that knows what the LEDs are.  > K > The OpenVMS FAQ is available from a link at http://www.openvms.compaq.com  >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only  >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2003 12:51:08 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Dumping LAT= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302231251.63146b9d@posting.google.com>   T Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3E58E5C6.6030100@vajhoej.dk>... > Bob Ceculski wrote: D > > why not go with decnet over IP and have the best of both worlds? > 3 > And what does that have to do with the question ?  > ( > I have never heard about LAT over IP ! >  > Arne  4 if they dump lat, and go IP, decnet over IP at least6 preserves VMS network functionality fully ... I didn't$ say it was a replacement for lat ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:20:26 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Dumping LATL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2302031620270001@user-uinj4qf.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <OAbmMJVIOlW8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  D >In article <b3a8ij$1jg7f1$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > J >> version it may be dropped. Hardware that supports LAT is quite rare, so > + >There seems to be a steady supply on eBay.   A Not to mention new gear from Digital Networks, and likely others.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:12:39 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Dumping LAT3 Message-ID: <mGb6a.34593$I6.5301795@zwoll1.home.nl>   G Lat has some distinct advantages over Telnet when using it with dialin  N connections on Decservers. You have full control over the modem signals etc., O because the Decserver ports effectively function as remote serial ports on the  I Alpha/Vax. Read the terminal driver manual, and you will see what I mean.   N Futhermore LAT has automatic failover, and uses less bandwith because data of Q several Decserver ports are transmitted in one packet. And the reverse operation     also is a important feature.  P Decservers can still be bought new, so that is no problem. And on a LAN you can M use any ethernet protocol, who cares. As long as you don't have to route the  N traffic, the protocols used should be of no importance. And if you snif a LAN 4 you will be amazed how many protocols you will find.     John N. wrote:N > Our network guys are somewhat Unix and Windows literate, but have (nor want)L > much VMS knowledge.  They want to get rid of  LAT and go to all IP.  TheseK > are the same guys that took our many segmented LAN and "simplified" it by J > conbining everything on one Lan segment, thereby sacrificing redundancy.M > Now, if the one network segment glitches, my sattelite nodes CLUEXIT.  They  > have agreed to fix this. > L > But now I have to justify keeping LAT.  Other than saying "better trackingK > of connection sources", or "better support for reverse operation ,such as G > printing", I need some real arguments.  The word "better" is somewhat 
 > subjective.  > M > Actually, I guess I should ask whether you guys think I should keep LAT, or M > am I a dinosaur.  Should we migrate to an all-IP network?  We primarily use N > LAT for incoming dialup connections.  They make a request for a service thatK > is offered by several VMS systems.  We also do a fair amount of printing, * > but we also do some IP printing as well. > N > Opinions are invited of course, but directions to appropriate literature may > give my words more  validity.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:03:08 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGY Subject: Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Fre 0 Message-ID: <00A1BEF6.B0AF15BC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  D In article <3E593942.4020305@gce.com>, Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes: >Paddy O'Brien wrote:  >>   >>   >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: >>  I >>> In article <20030210142000.6DD38FFD.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>,  2 >>> Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:@ >>> :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: >>> : H >>> :> In the past, I have found Ralf Grtners [TEXMF...] stuff ((La)TexC >>> :> for VMS) very useful; I hope a current version is on the CD.  >>> : I >>> :It IS the current version :) Though pi is now larger, so that may be  >>> :moved into the VMS kits.  >>> L >>>   I do not presently assume that anything on any current Freeware CD-ROMI >>>   distribution will be directly carried through to the next Freeware   >>> CD-ROM.  >>> H >>>   With Freeware V5.0, I was unable to carry over any older packages 
 >>> simply@ >>>   due to the volume of new and changed submissions received. >>> I >>>   If there is a new TeX kit, I do not (presently) know about it.  If  	 >>> there G >>>   is one, I need to know where.  If there are other new or updated   >>> kits, I ' >>>   need to see the submission email.  >>>  >> Hoff, >>  ? >> This is late because I have been away on leave for 2 months.  >>  D >> Could you not provide two/three CDs.  Patrick Moreau's games are K >> interesting, but not what my management wants from me, what about those  H >> on one CD.  Other VMS management, etc. on another.  Things like ZIP, H >> VMSTAR, Mssrs Sneddon, Everhart and Ragosta, just to name a few that I >> spring to mind, have contributions that are somewhat more serious VMS  7 >> management. (No offense to Patrick's contributions).  >>  J >> I understand that you could not repeat all the old unchanged melodies, K >> but from a user perspective this would be a nice split, and I would not  7 >> need to re-load V4, V5 and V6 ... to suss out tools.  >>   >> Regards, Paddy  >>   >>   >>   >>  J >> *********************************************************************** >>  F >> "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedL >> and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressees F >> named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of this email, : >> please delete the message and any attachment and adviseE >> the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,  : >> distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited. >>  D >> If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid D >> immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the J >> individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority < >> states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesA >> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses  >> contained in any attachment.  >>  ? >> Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now ' >> firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  >>  J >> *********************************************************************** >>   >Ah well... K >Perhaps you should keep up with VMS SIG tapes also. The initial mailing of L >the VMS/LT Fall 2002 sigtape was just done (actually, the first part of it;H >I have a number more to get out) so an announcement will come out soon. > G >The VMS SIG tapes long ago gave up on trying to keep everything in one K >collection to be reissued every so often; there is just too much material.  > B >The current 2 CDs per year rate has been going for some time now. >  >Glenn Everhart  >everhart@gce.com  >   L FYI, I received two CDs from Glenn this week.  I have been under the weatherL with bronchitis and pneumonia but I will see to it that these two CDs (and a7 few others) are made available via my web site shortly.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:12:34 -0500  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com> Y Subject: Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Fre & Message-ID: <3E593942.4020305@gce.com>   Paddy O'Brien wrote: >  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > H >> In article <20030210142000.6DD38FFD.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, 1 >> Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: ? >> :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:  >> :G >> :> In the past, I have found Ralf Grtners [TEXMF...] stuff ((La)Tex B >> :> for VMS) very useful; I hope a current version is on the CD. >> :H >> :It IS the current version :) Though pi is now larger, so that may be >> :moved into the VMS kits. >>K >>   I do not presently assume that anything on any current Freeware CD-ROM H >>   distribution will be directly carried through to the next Freeware 
 >> CD-ROM. >>G >>   With Freeware V5.0, I was unable to carry over any older packages  	 >> simply ? >>   due to the volume of new and changed submissions received.  >>H >>   If there is a new TeX kit, I do not (presently) know about it.  If  >> thereF >>   is one, I need to know where.  If there are other new or updated 
 >> kits, I& >>   need to see the submission email. >> > Hoff,  > > > This is late because I have been away on leave for 2 months. > C > Could you not provide two/three CDs.  Patrick Moreau's games are  J > interesting, but not what my management wants from me, what about those G > on one CD.  Other VMS management, etc. on another.  Things like ZIP,  G > VMSTAR, Mssrs Sneddon, Everhart and Ragosta, just to name a few that  H > spring to mind, have contributions that are somewhat more serious VMS 6 > management. (No offense to Patrick's contributions). > I > I understand that you could not repeat all the old unchanged melodies,  J > but from a user perspective this would be a nice split, and I would not 6 > need to re-load V4, V5 and V6 ... to suss out tools. >  > Regards, Paddy >  >  >  > I > ***********************************************************************  > E > "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged K > and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressees  E > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of this email,  9 > please delete the message and any attachment and advise D > the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 9 > distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  > C > If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  C > immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  I > individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority  ; > states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses @ > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses > contained in any attachment. > > > Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now& > firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au" > I > ***********************************************************************  > 
 Ah well...J Perhaps you should keep up with VMS SIG tapes also. The initial mailing ofK the VMS/LT Fall 2002 sigtape was just done (actually, the first part of it; G I have a number more to get out) so an announcement will come out soon.   F The VMS SIG tapes long ago gave up on trying to keep everything in oneJ collection to be reissued every so often; there is just too much material.  A The current 2 CDs per year rate has been going for some time now.    Glenn Everhart everhart@gce.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:26:54 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: Freeware Games v serious - was something else (was: Re: Call for OpenVMS Fre ' Message-ID: <3E5990FE.22D44A03@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > F > In article <3E593942.4020305@gce.com>, Everhart <ge@gce.com> writes: > >Paddy O'Brien wrote:  > >> > >> > >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: > >>J > >>> In article <20030210142000.6DD38FFD.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>,4 > >>> Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:B > >>> :Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: > >>> : J > >>> :> In the past, I have found Ralf Grtners [TEXMF...] stuff ((La)TexE > >>> :> for VMS) very useful; I hope a current version is on the CD.  > >>> : K > >>> :It IS the current version :) Though pi is now larger, so that may be  > >>> :moved into the VMS kits.  > >>> N > >>>   I do not presently assume that anything on any current Freeware CD-ROMJ > >>>   distribution will be directly carried through to the next Freeware
 > >>> CD-ROM.  > >>> I > >>>   With Freeware V5.0, I was unable to carry over any older packages  > >>> simplyB > >>>   due to the volume of new and changed submissions received. > >>> J > >>>   If there is a new TeX kit, I do not (presently) know about it.  If > >>> there H > >>>   is one, I need to know where.  If there are other new or updated
 > >>> kits, I ) > >>>   need to see the submission email.  > >>> 
 > >> Hoff, > >>A > >> This is late because I have been away on leave for 2 months.  > >>E > >> Could you not provide two/three CDs.  Patrick Moreau's games are L > >> interesting, but not what my management wants from me, what about thoseI > >> on one CD.  Other VMS management, etc. on another.  Things like ZIP, I > >> VMSTAR, Mssrs Sneddon, Everhart and Ragosta, just to name a few that J > >> spring to mind, have contributions that are somewhat more serious VMS9 > >> management. (No offense to Patrick's contributions).  > >>K > >> I understand that you could not repeat all the old unchanged melodies, L > >> but from a user perspective this would be a nice split, and I would not9 > >> need to re-load V4, V5 and V6 ... to suss out tools.  > >> > >> Regards, Paddy  > >> > >> > >> > >>L > >> *********************************************************************** > >>H > >> "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedM > >> and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressees G > >> named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of this email, < > >> please delete the message and any attachment and adviseF > >> the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,< > >> distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited. > >>E > >> If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid E > >> immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the K > >> individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority > > >> states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesC > >> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses ! > >> contained in any attachment.  > >>A > >> Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now ) > >> firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  > >>L > >> *********************************************************************** > >>
 > >Ah well... M > >Perhaps you should keep up with VMS SIG tapes also. The initial mailing of N > >the VMS/LT Fall 2002 sigtape was just done (actually, the first part of it;J > >I have a number more to get out) so an announcement will come out soon. > > I > >The VMS SIG tapes long ago gave up on trying to keep everything in one M > >collection to be reissued every so often; there is just too much material.  > > D > >The current 2 CDs per year rate has been going for some time now. > >  > >Glenn Everhart  > >everhart@gce.com  > >  > N > FYI, I received two CDs from Glenn this week.  I have been under the weatherN > with bronchitis and pneumonia but I will see to it that these two CDs (and a9 > few others) are made available via my web site shortly.   ? Careful, Brian, and everyone else who comes down with this bug:   G This is SERIOUS! The wife and I both relapsed twice, and I almost wound  up in intensive care.   G Keep warm, rest lots, and by all means take your doctor's comments VERY  LITERALLY!!!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:02:52 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Dirk,   H <<< For high performance applications we use raid 0+1 sets on HSG80, and6 these sets are shadowed over two sites using HBVS...>>  B Yep. A big advantage of this config as well is that you can lose aH single volume and no host based shadow set rebuilds need to take place -C either at the local site or the remote site. The HW RAID controller F takes care of it. This is significant when one considers the impact of< building a HBVS set over the network link between the sites.  G There are always going to be pro's-n-con's for HW RAID and HBVS, but in G many cases where cost is not the primary concern (drives are relatively G cheap these days), then usually a combo of HW RAID and HBVS is the best  overall solution.    Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----( From: Dirk Munk [mailto:munk@home.nl]=20 Sent: February 23, 2003 4:52 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE:0 Volumeset across RAID5 across RAID5 across RAID5    H Exactly Bart. For a multi-site VMS cluster you will have to use HBVS. In fact=20 H there are some special settings in present VMS versions for multisite=20F fibrechannel HBVS setups. These settings will prevent VMS from reading from the=20 E remote shadow set members as long as the local members are available.   D For high performance applications we use raid 0+1 sets on HSG80, and
 these sets=20 H are shadowed over two sites using HBVS. And yes, this means we are using
 4 times=20F   the net amount of data visible to the application. But that does not
 matter,=20E we are interested in performance and reliability, and this way we can 	 achive=20 
 just that.   Bart Zorn wrote: > David J. Dachtera wrote: >=20 >> Ryan Moore wrote: >>H >>> There's a bigger disadvantge than this.  All of your disks are in=20 >>> one  >>> rack( >>> connected to one set of controllers. >> >> >> >> John and Ryan,  >>I >> In my experience, the likelihood of such a failure is low enough to=20 , >> justify mitigating the negatives of HBVS. >> >> As I said, YMMV...  >>I >> Also, do not the newer controller support "remote copy" so a mirror=20 3 >> set can be propagated to second controller pair?  >> >=20G > Yes, they do. But that remote copy disk cannot be accessed by OpenVMS H > concurrently with the master, as can be done with HBVS. I believe that  2 > is important when you have a multi site cluster. >=20 > Bart Zorn  >=20 >=20 >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:42:31 GMT ! From: rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R % Message-ID: <3e5959b5.534642955@news>   9 Been away for a week and these discussions caught my eye.   E I've worked on sites that have just used HBVS or HBVS with Controller  based Mirroring.  > With a purely Controller based Raid solution the main issue is3 potentially more outages / disruption to services..   C With HBVS, you can upgrade individual systems and reboot individual 0 servers.  There's no outage to the applications.F However, some of the Controller Upgrades require both controllers in aE pair to be done at the same time. The recommended practise is to shut E down the Servers connecting to the HSx's at this point. That means an  outage.   F I've also seen Controller software failures that have resulted in both" controllers in a pair restarting.   E There's quite a close coupling of a controller failover pair. So , in E some cases, this should be considered as a single point of failure in 
 any proposal.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:01:14 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R ' Message-ID: <3E5960CA.6F62A94A@fsi.net>   " rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote: > ; > Been away for a week and these discussions caught my eye.  > G > I've worked on sites that have just used HBVS or HBVS with Controller  > based Mirroring. > @ > With a purely Controller based Raid solution the main issue is5 > potentially more outages / disruption to services..  > E > With HBVS, you can upgrade individual systems and reboot individual 2 > servers.  There's no outage to the applications.H > However, some of the Controller Upgrades require both controllers in aG > pair to be done at the same time. The recommended practise is to shut G > down the Servers connecting to the HSx's at this point. That means an 	 > outage.  > H > I've also seen Controller software failures that have resulted in both# > controllers in a pair restarting.  > G > There's quite a close coupling of a controller failover pair. So , in G > some cases, this should be considered as a single point of failure in  > any proposal.   E In my experience, HBVS disruptions due to cluster state transitions - G intentional and otherwise - outnumber HSx failure by a good margin. I'd 1 guesstimate on the order of 100-to-1 HBVS to HSx.   H For my money, the foibles of HBVS outweigh the risks of controller-based	 RAID 0+1.    As always, YMMV.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:19:20 GMT " From: Lee <lytmah@telusplanet.net>Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R / Message-ID: <3E598120.B7402063@telusplanet.net>   " rob.buxton@wcc.spam.govt.nz wrote:  ; > Been away for a week and these discussions caught my eye.  > G > I've worked on sites that have just used HBVS or HBVS with Controller  > based Mirroring. > @ > With a purely Controller based Raid solution the main issue is5 > potentially more outages / disruption to services..  > E > With HBVS, you can upgrade individual systems and reboot individual 2 > servers.  There's no outage to the applications.H > However, some of the Controller Upgrades require both controllers in aG > pair to be done at the same time. The recommended practise is to shut G > down the Servers connecting to the HSx's at this point. That means an 	 > outage.   G             For quite a few years, we've used HBVS with HSJ40 and HSJ50 J             controllers across two sites.  Each shadow member at a site is  F             dual-pathed.  We've gone thru many controller upgrades and never J             required both controllers to be shut down at the same time, or the 8             servers connected to the CI to be shut down.   > H > I've also seen Controller software failures that have resulted in both# > controllers in a pair restarting.   G             The controller failures we have experienced has resulted in  the F             disk members failing over to the alternate path, but still leaving C             all the shadow members in the shadow sets.  When we had I             HSC's, there were situations where the drives would ping-pong J             between the controllers, but that may have been due to the use of$             third party disk drives.   > G > There's quite a close coupling of a controller failover pair. So , in G > some cases, this should be considered as a single point of failure in  > any proposal.    -- Lee    lytmah@telusplanet.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:52:14 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset across R 3 Message-ID: <dnb6a.34576$I6.5290737@zwoll1.home.nl>   N Exactly Bart. For a multi-site VMS cluster you will have to use HBVS. In fact F there are some special settings in present VMS versions for multisite P fibrechannel HBVS setups. These settings will prevent VMS from reading from the E remote shadow set members as long as the local members are available.   P For high performance applications we use raid 0+1 sets on HSG80, and these sets Q are shadowed over two sites using HBVS. And yes, this means we are using 4 times  O   the net amount of data visible to the application. But that does not matter,  M we are interested in performance and reliability, and this way we can achive  
 just that.   Bart Zorn wrote: > David J. Dachtera wrote: >  >> Ryan Moore wrote: >>J >>> There's a bigger disadvantge than this.  All of your disks are in one  >>> rack( >>> connected to one set of controllers. >> >> >> >> John and Ryan,  >>F >> In my experience, the likelihood of such a failure is low enough to, >> justify mitigating the negatives of HBVS. >> >> As I said, YMMV...  >>J >> Also, do not the newer controller support "remote copy" so a mirror set/ >> can be propagated to second controller pair?  >> > H > Yes, they do. But that remote copy disk cannot be accessed by OpenVMS I > concurrently with the master, as can be done with HBVS. I believe that  2 > is important when you have a multi site cluster. >  > Bart Zorn  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:37:53 -0000  From: "Jer" <harry@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: HSZ50 Battery Qs 0 Message-ID: <Dkh6a.213$2v1.198@news.cpqcorp.net>  I There is a undocumented command that can bring your board back to life if J your were to remove the battery. All I can remember of it is it was calledH the dangerous command   "HSJ50>>> dangerous". I don't think there is any) online help from the controller for this.    Jer     1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C2D442.43652F70@sulfer.icius.com...I > In a heart transplant operation, a heart/lung machine is hooked up as a G > bypass to keep the patient's blood moving while the heart is missing. F > Maybe something similar could be done with an external battery and aI > couple of leads clipped to the board - keep the current going while the I > battery is swapped. Admittedly having two batteries in parallel briefly J > would run too much juice through the kit, which might cause some damage,2 > but you might get away with it if you move fast. > J > Anyone with better electronics knowledge than me (not difficult) care toG > comment? Preferably before someone tries it and something explodes if  > I'm wrong... >  > Shane  > , > On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Mark D. Jilson wrote: > I > > I know that it sounds very unfair but I don't make the rules.  An HSZ J > > owner that needs the serial number reset for ANY reason has to pay $$$I > > either via a service contract or on a per-call basis.  The details on L > > how this is done are company confidential and it would be a disciplinaryK > > offense for an employee to tell you or to do the work without followingg > > procedure. > >t > > Manser wrote:c > > > But i have one question: > > >nI > > > what happens when that Battery goes flat ? and what i to do in thate > > > situation ?wA > > > about the secret way to get the serial number back, i stills > > > interested.m > > >e > > > Nazim Manser.r > >V > >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:45:56 -0000V From: "Jer" <harry@hotmail.com>n Subject: Re: HSZ50 Battery Qs 0 Message-ID: <9sh6a.214$As1.118@news.cpqcorp.net>  0 Here is some more info on the Dangerous command:  L If you lost nvram you would need to get the serial number and hw rev off the modules   I HSJ> dangerous x manufac=3 op=4 hardware=" H07"                         | ( HSJ> dangerous x serial="ZG12345678" PRE  > there is a debate as to if it is double or single quote " or '   Jera  1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messageo* news:01C2D442.43652F70@sulfer.icius.com...I > In a heart transplant operation, a heart/lung machine is hooked up as aDG > bypass to keep the patient's blood moving while the heart is missing.DF > Maybe something similar could be done with an external battery and aI > couple of leads clipped to the board - keep the current going while theDI > battery is swapped. Admittedly having two batteries in parallel brieflyVJ > would run too much juice through the kit, which might cause some damage,2 > but you might get away with it if you move fast. >sJ > Anyone with better electronics knowledge than me (not difficult) care toG > comment? Preferably before someone tries it and something explodes ife > I'm wrong... >h > Shaneo > , > On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Mark D. Jilson wrote: > I > > I know that it sounds very unfair but I don't make the rules.  An HSZmJ > > owner that needs the serial number reset for ANY reason has to pay $$$I > > either via a service contract or on a per-call basis.  The details onSL > > how this is done are company confidential and it would be a disciplinaryK > > offense for an employee to tell you or to do the work without followingh > > procedure. > >  > > Manser wrote:U > > > But i have one question: > > > I > > > what happens when that Battery goes flat ? and what i to do in that  > > > situation ?0A > > > about the secret way to get the serial number back, i stilll > > > interested.a > > >a > > > Nazim Manser.k > >e > >-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:10:24 -0700/ From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.caQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly:+ Message-ID: <3E591CA0.8010005@jetnet.ab.ca>    CBFalconer wrote:a  > > Compare their R&D budgets and their advertising and lobbying> > budgets.  The only god is Green and his name is the Almighty	 > Dollah.,    < Making some proft is not the problem here.In many cases like9 people dealing in HEALTH related thing would out of a JOBi= if they cured you. Take diet-food you would think be a heathyaE thing, the sugar replacement now in use is 100x more deadly than the o: suger it replaces yet marketing never tells you that. Diet& Soft drinks are proven addictive. Ben.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:50 -0400s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyh/ Message-ID: <3E592AC7.969C8F7A@vl.videotron.ca>i   Chris Hedley wrote:o? > really need those drugs can no longer get them.  I'm inclinedo> > to think that protecting someone from their own stupidity is4 > only viable if it doesn't impact on everyone else     K Ever had to bring your almost dead mother to the hospital only to find that L what almost killed her was her medication "regime" which was totally screwed up ?  K Give an old person ample supply of drug A that lasts 3 months. Then 2 weeksnH later, patient sees doctor, doctor says Drug A isn't working so well andN prescribes drug B. Patient starts to take Drug B, but continues to take Drug AK for many months because the bottle isn't empty and the bottle still says to G take it twice a day. Drug B conflicts with drug A and patient feels new H symptom, goes to see doctor #2 who doesn't know about drug A still being= ingested and prescribes drug C which makes things even worse..  M The solution is to outsource pill management to a single pharmacists that has5J the full pedigree on computer and can then generate "dispill" packages. (4J little plastic cups per day, about 10 days assembled in an 8.5*11 package,H with each cup containing the actual pills needed. Morning, noon, supper,, bedtime. Each cup is labeled with the date.   M No more old pill boxes, containers etc in the ouse, so the old person doesn't L get confused about what medication to take. He/she just opens the little cupL that has the right date and time on it and consumes whatever pill is inside.L And by going to a single pharmacist, the pharmacist has the full pedigree ofL the drug regime and can advise you and/or doctor of any conflicts (they have software for that).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:58:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>VQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolya' Message-ID: <3E595220.DB0A1C6F@fsi.net>k   Rupert Pigott wrote: > M > <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:b3ahj1$r7a$16@bob.news.rcn.net...s3 > > In article <3E57DEE8.CB2FC60C@vl.videotron.ca>, 8 > >    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:$ > > >"Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote:M > > >> cost of production.  The U.S. price does both; the Canadians and other-M > > >> freeloaders only cover the second (and it makes economic sense for the N > > >> producer to sell to such thieves when they cover marginal costs, but itJ > > >> really amounts to a subsidy of Canadian buyers by the U.S. buyers). > > >5K > > >Considering that the major pharmaceutical firsm all have major R&D andnI > > >production facilities in Canada which were heavily subsidized by the @ > > >governments in canada, your accusation is not well founded. > > > L > > >Fact is that the pharmaceuticals in the USA are taking advantage of the	 > > USA's G > > >health care structure, knowing exactly just how much the insurance 
 > > companies- > > >are capable of paying.2 > > G > > Uh...this one won't fly.  Complete drug coverage doesn't exist here D > > in the US.  If my folks paid for drug insurance, the cap is $2K;F > > that happens to be less than the premium.  So they buy their drugsC > > out-of-pocket.  What's killing them is this idiot limitation byID > > the pharmacies of only dispensing a few weeks' worth of drugs atD > > a time.  They can buy three months' worth for the price they pay$ > > for one month plus a little bit. > 9 > Talking as a son of a pair of general practitioners whon9 > gave a toss about their patients... Restrictions on the-6 > amount a patient holds at any given time is a *good*< > thing. No it's not nanny state either. They can get mugged: > for them, they can have a funny spell & down a couple of* > months worth at a time... etc etc etc... > 7 > Now obviously it depends on the drug and state of theY: > patient (lots of variables there), but as a general rule > it is a good thing.e  D Well, paranoia aside, remember also that your local Walgreens, Osco,F WalMart, or whatever is *PHARMACY*, *NOT* a pharmaceuticals warehouse.F They likely have neither the room nor the financial resources to stockF that much of any one item. During the recent "flu" season (bronchitis,H really), local Oscos had runners going around from store to store trying> to stay ahead of the demand for Zithromax (five-day regimen of
 Zithromycin).r  5 Mail-order pharmacies are, of course, another matter.e  E The general recommendation is to get at least three weeks' worth fromiH your local pharmacy and, in the case of extended therapy, order the next- few month's worth from a mail-order pharmacy.r   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:21:00 GMTn' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>,Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr) Message-ID: <3E5970D6.E60FDF3C@yahoo.com>u   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Chris Hedley wrote:rA > > really need those drugs can no longer get them.  I'm inclinede@ > > to think that protecting someone from their own stupidity is5 > > only viable if it doesn't impact on everyone elsey > @ > Ever had to bring your almost dead mother to the hospital onlyA > to find that what almost killed her was her medication "regime"m  > which was totally screwed up ? > @ > Give an old person ample supply of drug A that lasts 3 months.= > Then 2 weeks later, patient sees doctor, doctor says Drug A @ > isn't working so well and prescribes drug B. Patient starts to; > take Drug B, but continues to take Drug A for many monthsy= > because the bottle isn't empty and the bottle still says to-? > take it twice a day. Drug B conflicts with drug A and patientM; > feels new symptom, goes to see doctor #2 who doesn't know ? > about drug A still being ingested and prescribes drug C whichr > makes things even worse.  = Poppycock, at least your regulatory cure (snipped).  Most old,@ people are perfectly alert, unless drugged into insensibility byA the incessant pill-pushers.  First, find a doctor who believes in8A avoiding drugs as far as possible (which may not be so easy, manyeA of them have retired).  Then be aware what each drug does and whye it is prescribed.     A There is no more sense in your scenario than in the teen-ager whof@ takes all those designer drugs to be in with his crowd of fools.  9 Your whole scenario is aided and abetted by the larcenousu? instincts of the drug manufacturers.  Hell, they even encourages= the ignorant to go to some (unnamed) doctor and ask for theirc drug-du-jour by name.    -- i< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.b:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:56:37 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly / Message-ID: <3E597BD2.72BCF263@vl.videotron.ca>    CBFalconer wrote:>? > Poppycock, at least your regulatory cure (snipped).  Most oldeB > people are perfectly alert, unless drugged into insensibility by > the incessant pill-pushers.  t  1 I hope yor parents never get into that situation.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:07:47 -0500i* From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly ; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.23.20.07.47.937931@nospam.invalid>n  3 On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:10:24 -0700, bfranchu wrote:    > CBFalconer wrote:a > ? >> Compare their R&D budgets and their advertising and lobbyingi? >> budgets.  The only god is Green and his name is the Almighty,
 >> Dollah. >  > > > Making some proft is not the problem here.In many cases like; > people dealing in HEALTH related thing would out of a JOB* > if they cured you.  > Most physicians today have more workload than they can handle.  , > Take diet-food you would think be a heathyG > thing, the sugar replacement now in use is 100x more deadly than the n > suger it replacesh   Statistics please?  * > yet marketing never tells you that. Diet( > Soft drinks are proven addictive. Ben.  J So are non-diet soft drinks.  Caffeine is addictive no matter what you put it in.   --   --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot nete# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)A   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:30:36 -0400c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases	and  prodb/ Message-ID: <3E5975BB.7B1C3034@vl.videotron.ca>n   Our Dear Sue wrote: G >> and our customers.  But if the company ***does not allow advertising>I >> for OS's *** we can not, we work for HP, and ***that is their rule***.*$ >> ***It is not an option period.*** >* To which John Smith replied:  F > Shit. If this is true then HP might as well lay all you guys off now< > because sooner or later you will be laid off if there's noE > advertising. Better to leave now while Microsoft or other companies     N Well, HHP is a wintel company, so it lets Microsoft and Intel subsidize (read:K pay) for advertuising. That leaves no advertising for HP's own systems. TheaN statement by Sue didn't mention VMS, it mentions "OS". That would mean that HP1 doesn't intend to advertise NSK or HP-UX per say.Y  J They'll probably advertise their fault tolerant systems capable of runningI stock exchanges (read: Tandem) and have very powerful Unix servers (read: G HP-UX) that leaves VMS out dry, especially if it runs on the exact samepC hardware as HP-UX without any significant differentiating features.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:31:25 -0500-2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases and  prodaL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2302032331250001@user-uinj42l.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E5975BB.7B1C3034@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Our Dear Sue wrote:H >>> and our customers.  But if the company ***does not allow advertisingJ >>> for OS's *** we can not, we work for HP, and ***that is their rule***.% >>> ***It is not an option period.***  >> >To which John Smith replied:o >MG >> Shit. If this is true then HP might as well lay all you guys off nowh= >> because sooner or later you will be laid off if there's no>F >> advertising. Better to leave now while Microsoft or other companies >g > O >Well, HHP is a wintel company, so it lets Microsoft and Intel subsidize (read:tL >pay) for advertuising. That leaves no advertising for HP's own systems. TheO >statement by Sue didn't mention VMS, it mentions "OS". That would mean that HPh2 >doesn't intend to advertise NSK or HP-UX per say. >wK >They'll probably advertise their fault tolerant systems capable of runningnJ >stock exchanges (read: Tandem) and have very powerful Unix servers (read:H >HP-UX) that leaves VMS out dry, especially if it runs on the exact sameD >hardware as HP-UX without any significant differentiating features.  I If there was an ad campaign around stock exchanges, VMS and NSK would getnC roughly equal billing.  And of course VMS will have differentiatinga5 features when it runs on the same platforms as HP-UX.   H As I understand it, the current fad at HP is to promote "solutions".  AdJ campaigns will be built around brand image and "solutions".  The fad is toD avoid advertisements that focus specifically on OS products.  Or anyC products, with a few exceptions.  I guess HP thinks this kind of ad B campaign is a more efficient use of money than a bunch of separateI campaigns, each focused on a single product line.  This fad will probably B last a year or so, as usual, and then they will think of something Completely Different.T  E VMS promotional efforts seem to be focused on potential (and current) D customers who already mostly know what they want.  When the vague HPI "solution" campaign gets a customer to the point of asking questions, VMS I will be on the menu.  I think quite a bit of effort goes into making sureu( the VMS story is told in these meetings.  J Would a VMS-specific ad campaign aimed at the great unwashed masses of theF IT world have much impact?  I think most IT people are too ignorant ofB VMS's strengths.  A hard, time-consuming learning process would beJ needed.  One or two ads wouldn't hook anyone unless they were already mostJ of the way there.  An extended, long-term, expensive VMS-specific campaignF would bring in many customers over time.  But maybe the money would be better spent in other ways.   H I'd like to see VMS easier to buy.  The phone and web systems are mostlyI broken.  On-line prices and ordering should become available and reliable*F for VMS stuff. The product bundles and order numbers are a bewilderingH swamp, and should be made more customer-friendly.  More people inside HP> need to be brought up to speed on VMS so they can sell it moreC effectively.  (From the little I've seen, this is gradually gettingoH better, but the merger disrupted the process.)  All of this costs money,J and I'm not convinced a splashy ad campaign would be money well spent when the other stuff is broken.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:43:26 +0900- From: bhretk@gw1qa7t.comY Subject: Police Forensic and Eliminating software.....Download Now       hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhR) Message-ID: <3e5a67ce@news.newsnet.co.jp>   / You're in Serious Trouble - It's a Proven Fact!3      $ FBI FORENSICS CAN FIND DELETED FILES      ! THERE ARE THINGS ON YOUR COMPUTERE   THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU DELETED.        !!!!BUT THEY ARE STILL THERE!!!w      1 Click here for details on the EVIDENCE ELIMINATOR       * Clear your computer of incriminating files   that you cannot delete.a       www.cleanthedisk.com       THIS IS A MUST READ!!!!p       www.cleanthedisk.com                                                                                               ew5r4325435435435435   43   543    5u   435I       435r   43   5        435D   435435                          @ 4360i0iretret=reyt-=erfgytkretretretretretretretretredfgfdgfdgfd                                   ertretretretretretgt   dfgh   gfda   hgfd   hy   de   gf   h        gfd>   hgfd   hi   fdgh   gfdc   hgfdhe                                                            ewfrgh32gh02439-eftrpewjtrrewgfs   dg   fd   gr   fdsd   gc       fds>   gp   fds>       go   fdsl       gw   fdsa       gfds   gr       fd   g    fdasdsadsadsad   fdse   g    fd   go   fdsg   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 03 02:15:46 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)d0 Subject: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>T  . I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more.  B I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day all' three usernames I use no longer worked.   D Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am) thinking I have been hacked by an expert.i  A OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at at- non-existant address, so one guess is that it > was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware.  ; Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, butr8 suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again.  > It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boot from a CD goes like this:e  8 Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection5 Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection* Grab the Apache logs too Operator.log also* A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenever  = Then restore from last trusted backup, change passwwords etc,v BEFORE I put the cables back.n    Have I forgotten anything there?   -- a
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:54:47 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.come4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box1 Message-ID: <03022319544722@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    >>>r2 >>> I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more. >>> F >>> I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day all+ >>> three usernames I use no longer worked.s >>> H >>> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am- >>> thinking I have been hacked by an expert.t >>> E >>> OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at au1 >>> non-existant address, so one guess is that itnB >>> was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware. >>>r   What version VMS?f What brand/version TCPIP?. What kind of ROUTER?  Version?+ Is the Apache account installed with Privs?*   >>> ? >>> Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, butV< >>> suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again. >>> B >>> It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boot >>> from a CD goes like this:n >>> < >>> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection9 >>> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection  >>> Grab the Apache logs too >>> Operator.log also  >>> A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenever >>> A >>> Then restore from last trusted backup, change passwwords etc,E! >>> BEFORE I put the cables back.  >>> $ >>> Have I forgotten anything there? >>>   ) Have you kept up with all ECO patch kits?o  N Review your account settings.  I.E., SYSTEM, FIELD, and others that you do notJ use or use infrequently.  Either disuser (except SYSTEM) these accounts orP change them daily by using a RANDOM generator to build a 32-character password. < I use this method for accounts that are BATCHed or DETACHed.     John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorr Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2003 19:57:18 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box3 Message-ID: <R0qH$EKRkJSV@eisner.encompasserve.org>j  U In article <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:e  F > Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am+ > thinking I have been hacked by an expert.e  $ It could also be some other problem.  @ > It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boot > from a CD goes like this:c > : > Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection7 > Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection  > Grab the Apache logs too > Operator.log alson > A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenever  E I would suggest backing up the whole system disk to have it available  for diagnosis.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:39:40 GMTr7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)t4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box? Message-ID: <wJe6a.238296$Ec4.245801@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>v  U In article <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:)/ >I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more.6 >5C >I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day allm( >three usernames I use no longer worked. >ME >Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I amM* >thinking I have been hacked by an expert. >,B >OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at a. >non-existant address, so one guess is that it? >was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware.t >o< >Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, but9 >suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again.n   Hi Paul,  K Please see the FAQ for an alternative method for getting on the system, one C that does not involve UAFALTERNATE (the FAQ elsewhere mentions thata+ UAFALTERNATE may not always work properly).a  M The method involves running sys$system:startup.com - I've used it a few timesiJ to get to the "$" prompt, and I find it a little easier than UAFALTERNATE.   The FAQ URL is:t  5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmli  2 and the appropriate section is 5.5, on "page" 5-5.  
 Good luck!   <snip> >--  >Paul Sturer  A _________________________________________________________________ 0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:48:45 -0400I0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box/ Message-ID: <3E5979FB.6E35A3E9@vl.videotron.ca>A   Paul Sture wrote: F > Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am+ > thinking I have been hacked by an expert.e   read the faq :-)  H Boot into sysboot, SET/STARTUP OPA0: instead of sys$system:startup.com    J Isn't it funny how one knows how these things work on normal days, but the5 very minute you need the stuff, you forget about it !   O Do you have a SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAFALT.DAT file ? If not, VMS should let anyone in.m    K Yu do NOT want to delete SYSUAF.DAT, you really want to see if anything wasr changed in it.  : > Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection7 > Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspectiony > Grab the Apache logs too > Operator.log alsod    N FTP logs. If someone dumped a new SYSUAF.DAT on top of your exsiting one, that would explain it.i  N Do you have a SYSLOG server that records inbound calls ? I have John Vottero'sJ SYSLOGF deamon running and I record all attempts to connect to my machine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:10:58 GMTq# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS boxI Message-ID: <63g6a.49718$b8v1.32167@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>a  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageh) news:3E5979FB.6E35A3E9@vl.videotron.ca...  >tF > Do you have a SYSLOG server that records inbound calls ? I have John	 Vottero's C > SYSLOGF deamon running and I record all attempts to connect to my  machine.  6 You meant running as a 'detached process', didn't you?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:45:58 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSa/ Message-ID: <3E5924F5.EC0D3CE4@vl.videotron.ca>    Sue Skonetski wrote:E > Maybe not the folks on this newsgroup but many customers think that G > VMS is for VAX, OpenVMS is for Alpha and I assume OpenVMS I64 will behE > thought of as the Intel box.  I am still surprised at the amount ofRD > people that think the VMS vs OpenVMS, and I still get requests for- > presentations on VMS to OpenVMS migrations.a  L And you are committing the same mistake by tagging yet another unwanted name! for VMS onto a foreign platform. f   VMS is VMS.   d If someone wants to know what that particular instance of VMS runs on, you do F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME").  L And when VMS boots, it can display the value of F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME"). OtherJ than that, one should not be plastered with Intel advertising when you runN VMS.  Next thing you know, when VMS boots, it will display a graphiocal "IntelG Inside" logo with the much despised Intel tune spewing out of speakers.s  N But as far as I am concerned, VMS is a Digital product (now owned by HP. It isM not an Intel product and there should never be any branding that implies that C Intel has any rights on VMS, unless HP agrees to sell VMS to Intel.   L I am appaled that HP would have to consult with "the other company" on legal terms of what to call VMS. b  K Unless Intel pays for advertising whenever a VMS machine boots, there is nomK reason in hell for HP to wish to advertise Intel,s onw products on a Digial/V product. This is not supposed to be a mickey mouse operation. VMS is a serious system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:21:28 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS2' Message-ID: <3E595778.97D3202B@fsi.net>n   John Smith wrote:t > A > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message H > news:rdeininger-2202032204000001@user-uinj4sp.dialup.mindspring.com... > > In article? > <_nN5a.47057$Zr%.41757@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,s( > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > >  > >rG > > >I understand the particulars of the situation you find yourself iniF > > >regarding this specific installation, and you *have* said all you > can ? > > >. But there are MANY other non-military, non-intelligence,t
 > non-'black'eE > > >major users of VMS out there in the world whose stories paralleln > the 7 > > >one you alluded to that can be reported in detail.  > > >  > > >HP chooses not to., > >eC > > HP can't use success stories from other companies without theirs
 > permission.d >   > Does HP even ask? [rhetorical] > G > Okay, how about 'an unnamed government agency, headquartered at [pick > > location] uses VMS to do [censored] in order to [spy/traffic5 > analysis/censored/...etc..] on [censored]...etc....h  G Now, since few folks seem to have the knack for it, let me rewrite thatu. into something virtually 100% unobjectionable:  G "One of our larger customers uses a large cluster of many nodes runningiH OpenVMS and a commercial third-party database product* to scan literallyD hundreds of billions of records for trends, traces and various small1 bits of data that can aid research tremendously."u  > ...or something like that. Could be financial, crime-fighting,E scientific (chemical, astronomy, ...), espionage, ... no clues. Safe.r  8 *: If you don't want to plug Oracle; otherwise, name it.  F > But if VMS had a larger customer base, there'd be a larger potentialB > pool of customers who would be willing to share success stories.  G Of the existing non-gov't customers, there'd be more who are willing to,G tout their VMS successes if VMS marketing displayed any indication that:D it possessed even a hint of the talent it takes to convert something5 like your original statement into what I posted here.m   > Sun F > seems to have no end of customer stories they can trot out on-demand  C Hhmmm... Wonder what Sun/Solaris marketing knows that VMS Marketingt
 doesn't ... ?a  H > "Gee whiz...how do you get a larger OpenVMS customer base?", asked HP.  H VMS Mgt. doesn't *WANT* a larger customer base!!! They're selling out toE Redmond, damnit!!! Why the hell can't we in this bloody newsgroup getsE that through our blasted thick heads???!!! (Evidence to date supportse. few, if any, conclusions other than that one.)  2 > Why through marketing and advertising of course.    Oh, HEAVENS to GIMBELS **NO**!!!  E > In fact, it would probably be the *newest* customers who would have G > some of the better stories - ie. our Sun or NT environment sucked andi: > the minute we moved to OpenVMS our problems were solved.  E Yeah, but then they might sell more VMS and related software, supportnE contracts, services and hardware, *AND* they might actually make morel	 profit!!!o  H HOLY SHIT!!! Do you DARE to even CONSIDER what Lord Darth-Gates would do< to them if they even THOUGHT about letting that happen???!!!  > (DJ blanches at the thought and shudders as he clicks <Send>.)   --   David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:22:44 -0500Z  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 6 Message-ID: <1030223135949.26948B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, John Smith wrote:   > @ > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message9 > news:857e9e41.0302222024.35b94106@posting.google.com...  > > Greetings,2 > > I am on vacation but just could not keep away. > 3 > You're a true believer, just like the rest of us.  >  > G > > I do not really know the entire process on how names are chosen andhF > > just knowing some of the work that went into this name I have come > toG > > the conclusion that I dont ever want to either.  It is tied up withp > soB > > much legal stuff its amazing.  Legal departments in HP and the	 > "other"aH > > company are involved and all kinds of research has to be done, and a, > > large amount of signatures are required. >  > Like the old joke goes:r2 > What's a 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? > A good start.  >  >  > > All the suggestionstF > > mentioned in this note were given by either the Ambassadors or theG > > engineers or the customers, but there was always something (usuallyeD > > legal).  A decision had to be made.  Everyone will still call it > VMS,H > > but there needed to be a way to differentiate between the platforms. >  > Official Namer? > The following is the official name for OpenVMS on the ItaniumtF > platform. This is the full name of the product and to be used in any0 > title, header, and first mention in body text: > G > "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64  but around the water cooler in PalomG > Alto we call it "VMS - It's cool as an iced latte on a hot day"" (tm)o > D > Did the lawyers ever think that the people at industrystandard.netE > might sue HP for trademark infringement, or hold you up for ransom?t > G > If hP or Hp or HP or hp felt compelled to change the name of OpenVMS,tD > the best name for OpenVMS is hp OpenVMS. Period. Full stop. With a > silent hp and Open.m  C How does Sun differentiate between Solaris-SPARC and Solaris-Intel?-  G (I have both at work, but am home with a cold, so I can't check.  IIRC,cG it is buried in the fine print on the box, in words like "... for SPARC.A platform" or "... for Intel platform".  I think they use the word # "Intel", not "x86" or "IA32", etc.)e  ? Given the cover of the V7.3 box, HP must have a copy of Solarisx around somewhere!d  G > > Maybe not the folks on this newsgroup but many customers think that"F > > VMS is for VAX, OpenVMS is for Alpha and I assume OpenVMS I64 will > beG > > thought of as the Intel box.  I am still surprised at the amount of5F > > people that think the VMS vs OpenVMS, and I still get requests for/ > > presentations on VMS to OpenVMS migrations.e > F > Just have some pre-printed Post-It notes made up that say '"OpenVMS"D > on it. Send pads of these to people who ask for the presentations, > with the instructions: > " > [begin VMS -> OpenVMS migration]D > "'Put one of these Post-It notes on each location you see the word	 > 'VMS'."   > [end VMS -> OpenVMS migration] >   
 I love it!   >  > >uD > > Advertising - funny I have not seen an HPux advertisment either,C > > Everyone I know would love to do a VMS advertisment and we haveP > gottenE > > some excellent suggestions from the newsgroup and enginnering and  > ouroF > > customers.  But if the company does not allow advertising for OS's > weB > > can not, we work for HP, and that is their rule.  It is not an > option > > period.r > H > Sheesh!! In reality o/s'es are the only differentiator you've got onceC > Intel starts cranking out whitebox IA-64 systems or if Mikey Dellc@ > starts to eat your lunch.Time to fire Carly and the BOD if notG > advertising HP's own o/s'es is their game plan. All this does is hand @ > the market to Microsoft [Bill Gates could really use the extraG > revenue, don't you think], Sun [Scott McNeally *really needs* another F > opening from HP so big he could drive a truck through it], and LinuxE > [which gets almost all it's high profile publicity through IBM *TV*  > ads].-  A The O/S is the most important differentiator, though not the only/C one.  The industrial-grade hardware DEC and successors have usuallysA produced is also important, but a windows PC you can drive a tank. over is still a windows PC...c  A That said, I care much more if it's VMS or not than whether it is D VAX, Alpha, IA64, or whatever.  (Anything with 64 bits is fine, evenG 32 bits is enough for most apps.  Speaking of which, any chance they'lle( ever add quadword support to VAX Basic?)  C > If HP won't allow o/s advertising then sell VMS to a company thathF > will. Better yet, spin VMS off as a separate company. Push stock outA > to existing shareholders in a tax-free spinoff and then let VMSh0 > Engineering go wild. Get new marketing people. > E > BTW - there has been plenty of HP-UX advertising/marketing over the * > years. Much more than VMS has ever seen.   -- u John SantosM Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2003 14:07:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSe3 Message-ID: <uhXDOeouAg5I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <1030223135949.26948B-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:r  E > How does Sun differentiate between Solaris-SPARC and Solaris-Intel?d > I > (I have both at work, but am home with a cold, so I can't check.  IIRC, I > it is buried in the fine print on the box, in words like "... for SPARCtC > platform" or "... for Intel platform".  I think they use the wordr% > "Intel", not "x86" or "IA32", etc.)g  I I believe Solaris receives less porting funding from Intel that VMS does.pG Rules might be more complex when maintaining such a close relationshop.i  A > Given the cover of the V7.3 box, HP must have a copy of Solarisd > around somewhere!g  5 Hey, they could have bought that hardware on eBay :-)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:25:01 -0600i: From: Michael Rice <MichaelARice@knology.n-o--s-p-a-m.net> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSk/ Message-ID: <v5if1dr9bmtbfe@corp.supernews.com>a   John Santos wrote:   <snip>   > E > How does Sun differentiate between Solaris-SPARC and Solaris-Intel?  > I > (I have both at work, but am home with a cold, so I can't check.  IIRC,eI > it is buried in the fine print on the box, in words like "... for SPARCiC > platform" or "... for Intel platform".  I think they use the wordd% > "Intel", not "x86" or "IA32", etc.)r >    <snip>  H On the copies I have (Solaris 8), at the bottom left corner of the box, C either "Intel Platform Edition" or "SPARC Platform Edition for Sun t> Computer Systems" is printed in normal size (about 14pt) font.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:29:40 -0500d2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSoL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2302031629410001@user-uinj4qf.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E5924F5.EC0D3CE4@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  
 >VMS is VMS. C >CG >If someone wants to know what that particular instance of VMS runs on,  you do F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME").w >sM >And when VMS boots, it can display the value of F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME"). OthernK >than that, one should not be plastered with Intel advertising when you runsO >VMS.  Next thing you know, when VMS boots, it will display a graphiocal "IntelsH >Inside" logo with the much despised Intel tune spewing out of speakers. >uO >But as far as I am concerned, VMS is a Digital product (now owned by HP. It isoN >not an Intel product and there should never be any branding that implies thatD >Intel has any rights on VMS, unless HP agrees to sell VMS to Intel. > M >I am appaled that HP would have to consult with "the other company" on legalf >terms of what to call VMS.  >eL >Unless Intel pays for advertising whenever a VMS machine boots, there is noL >reason in hell for HP to wish to advertise Intel,s onw products on a DigialG >product. This is not supposed to be a mickey mouse operation. VMS is au serious system.   & You seem to have it exactly backwards.  I The name that was chosen has NOTHING in it that Intel can claim.  Most ofsG the other names that people probably expected contain elements owned byeF Intel.  Those names could not be used without permission (and I assume $$$).r  @ The announced name is Intel-free.  It may also be cumbersome and& pretentious, but at least it is legal.  : But it doesn't matter.  You'd have bitched no matter what.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:04:53 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSl' Message-ID: <3E595395.A8511813@fsi.net>    steve_H wrote: > a > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E56EDEE.8417B05@fsi.net>..., > > Phil Jamieson wrote: > > > K > > > > ...barring any miracles, like a balls-out, throttle to the firewall,M > > > > marketing campaign, promises and commitments actually being kept, ...  > > > > that sort of thing.r > > > * > > > This got some mileage once for us... > > >o. > > > www.softwarepartners.com/VMS_not_toy.pdf > > >eH > > > If only H-P would run something like that in the Wall St. Journal. > >  > > Amen to that, Bro! > " > Can I run VMS on my PC ?  (x86).   Yes and no.o  8 No, there is no OpenVMS-IA32. The powers-that-be refuse.  F Yes, there are VAX emulators available for WhineBloze and UN*X (Linux,@ mostly) which allow you run OpenVMS and Co. within the emulator.  C A Google search of this group for "emulator" and "VAX" should prove F fruitful, I'm sure. Go to http://groups.google.com/ and click your way to where you wanna be.   -- y David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:32:58 -0600r1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>M Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSw' Message-ID: <3E595A2A.EE506E8D@fsi.net>o   Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Greetings,C > I am on vacation but just could not keep away.  Please excuse thea > spelling.s > G > Just a couple of things about the new name and the old, which you may 0 > or may not know.  This is just an explanation. > E > I do not really know the entire process on how names are chosen and G > just knowing some of the work that went into this name I have come tonH > the conclusion that I dont ever want to either.  It is tied up with soH > much legal stuff its amazing.  Legal departments in HP and the "other"F > company are involved and all kinds of research has to be done, and a? > large amount of signatures are required.  All the suggestionsiD > mentioned in this note were given by either the Ambassadors or theE > engineers or the customers, but there was always something (usuallysG > legal).  A decision had to be made.  Everyone will still call it VMS,gF > but there needed to be a way to differentiate between the platforms. > E > Maybe not the folks on this newsgroup but many customers think thatcG > VMS is for VAX, OpenVMS is for Alpha and I assume OpenVMS I64 will be E > thought of as the Intel box.  I am still surprised at the amount ofeD > people that think the VMS vs OpenVMS, and I still get requests for- > presentations on VMS to OpenVMS migrations.s  G It still amazes me how many folks say "VAX" when they mean "VMS", don'tsF even know what an Alpha is, and think VMS and OpenVMS are two entirelyC different critters. So, yes, my experience is congruent with yours.d  B > Advertising - funny I have not seen an HPux advertisment either,H > Everyone I know would love to do a VMS advertisment and we have gottenG > some excellent suggestions from the newsgroup and enginnering and our G > customers.  But if the company does not allow advertising for OS's we G > can not, we work for HP, and that is their rule.  It is not an option>	 > period.R  G The challenge is, of course, getting the rule corrected to allow HP (oreC the VMS-owner-du-jour) to maximize their VMS profits and,therefore, @ their stockholders' return on investment (say "fiduciary duty").  G > Regarding Nic's post about the excellent opportunity he has, Nic thisnF > is great and if its ok with you I would like to use it as an OpenVMSG > Pearl when I get back to the office.  Folks what Nic says is true, in4B > many cases an OS is considered a competititve advantage and many< > customers (not just governments) prefer to keep it quiet.   H So, don't mention their name, locale, industry, ... whetever it takes toF blow VMS's horn without compromising the customer's confidence. If theH current marketing staff cannot manage that, have HR begin the process toF hire me on board and I'll come do it for you (though I would prefer to! telecommute as much as possible).n  H > We can ask why a company/government does not want to do a testimonial,@ > but what about where you work.  Does your company want to do aB > testimonial?  Also if possible can you let me know how much yourC > company has purchased in the last year (if yes to either of these , > questions please send email, do not post).  F Well, I would approach things a bit more aggressively. For those salesE where I participated, I would type up the outline of a testmonial andk@ develop a presentation showing how I'm protecting the customer'sE confidence while blowing my own horn, then I get their sign-off on it ' and my boss's. Then, I go to the media.-  # Your mileage may vary, as always...2   --   David J. Dachteraz dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:08:59 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSdH Message-ID: <vod6a.59912$Zr%.21966@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E595778.97D3202B@fsi.net...t > John Smith wrote:i > >sC > > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message  > >oF news:rdeininger-2202032204000001@user-uinj4sp.dialup.mindspring.com... > > > In articleA > > <_nN5a.47057$Zr%.41757@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,u* > > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > > >n > > >tF > > > >I understand the particulars of the situation you find yourself inD > > > >regarding this specific installation, and you *have* said all you- > > canyA > > > >. But there are MANY other non-military, non-intelligence,l > > non-'black'c> > > > >major users of VMS out there in the world whose stories parallel > > the 9 > > > >one you alluded to that can be reported in detail.p > > > >e > > > >HP chooses not to.f > > >iE > > > HP can't use success stories from other companies without their, > > permission.1 > >0" > > Does HP even ask? [rhetorical] > >bC > > Okay, how about 'an unnamed government agency, headquartered at- [pickn@ > > location] uses VMS to do [censored] in order to [spy/traffic7 > > analysis/censored/...etc..] on [censored]...etc....E >5D > Now, since few folks seem to have the knack for it, let me rewrite that0 > into something virtually 100% unobjectionable: > A > "One of our larger customers uses a large cluster of many nodesw running,@ > OpenVMS and a commercial third-party database product* to scan	 literallyrF > hundreds of billions of records for trends, traces and various small3 > bits of data that can aid research tremendously."> >c@ > ...or something like that. Could be financial, crime-fighting,A > scientific (chemical, astronomy, ...), espionage, ... no clues.  Safe.l >H: > *: If you don't want to plug Oracle; otherwise, name it. >e> > > But if VMS had a larger customer base, there'd be a larger	 potentialyD > > pool of customers who would be willing to share success stories. >wF > Of the existing non-gov't customers, there'd be more who are willing toD > tout their VMS successes if VMS marketing displayed any indication thatF > it possessed even a hint of the talent it takes to convert something7 > like your original statement into what I posted here.u >o > > Sunc> > > seems to have no end of customer stories they can trot out	 on-demand. > E > Hhmmm... Wonder what Sun/Solaris marketing knows that VMS Marketinge > doesn't ... ?  >lF > > "Gee whiz...how do you get a larger OpenVMS customer base?", asked HP.t >sC > VMS Mgt. doesn't *WANT* a larger customer base!!! They're selling  out toC > Redmond, damnit!!! Why the hell can't we in this bloody newsgroupd getu> > that through our blasted thick heads???!!! (Evidence to date supports0 > few, if any, conclusions other than that one.) > 4 > > Why through marketing and advertising of course. >f" > Oh, HEAVENS to GIMBELS **NO**!!! >aB > > In fact, it would probably be the *newest* customers who would haveE > > some of the better stories - ie. our Sun or NT environment suckedi ando< > > the minute we moved to OpenVMS our problems were solved. >d? > Yeah, but then they might sell more VMS and related software,h supportaB > contracts, services and hardware, *AND* they might actually make more > profit!!!t >sA > HOLY SHIT!!! Do you DARE to even CONSIDER what Lord Darth-Gatest would do> > to them if they even THOUGHT about letting that happen???!!! >f@ > (DJ blanches at the thought and shudders as he clicks <Send>.)   ---------------------------t  F [also cross-posted to the thread 'Official OpenVMS name for the Itanic
 etc....' ]  D But the most important thing in Sue's post [in this thread] has beenF overlooked by many...but it is Sunday...wait until Monday and everyone comes back on-line...o  
 Sue wrote:@ "Everyone I know would love to do a VMS advertisment and we haveD gotten some excellent suggestions from the newsgroup and enginneringD and our customers.  But if the company ***does not allow advertisingF for OS's *** we can not, we work for HP, and ***that is their rule***.! ***It is not an option period.***m  D Shit. If this is true then HP might as well lay all you guys off now: because sooner or later you will be laid off if there's noC advertising. Better to leave now while Microsoft or other companiesoB that would be eager to hire you aren't flooded by a glut of formerE VMS-engineers hitting the street all at the same time. You'll be able ) to maximize your personal value this way.-  @ If you guys want to go out in a blaze of glory, do the followingD now....A full page ad in the national edition of the WSJ costs aboutB $100K. If each person in the OVMS Engineering group took $500 fromF your last paycheck, pooled it, you'd have enough dough to put your ownD ad in if you feel strongly about the product. What are they going toD do? Fire you all now when the port to IA-64 isn't done yet????  WellB the new HP might just do that. Well you can all threaten to resignC en-mass and let HP explain to their customers that the billions the = customers have invested in OpenVMS is now toast cause all theSE expertise just walked out the door, and the port's not done and we've B burn our boats behind us and customers don't have an EV8 lifeboat.( Sayonara HP credibility. Sayonara Carly.  E If you don't feel that strongly about the product and this *apparent* E inane HP policy, then perhaps you shouldn't be working at HP....aftergE all, you don't really work for Carly, et al...you work for me and allfE the other HP shareholders, and not advertising the key differentiator ? is compromising yours and my shareholder value. Not advertising F accelerates the decline in the customer base, the decline/reduction inE revenues, the decline/reduction in profits, which affect the multiplefB the market assigns to my HP stock...and yours too. Where's a Texas@ class-action lawyer when you need one? It'd be waaaay cheaper to@ advertise VMS than just the legal fees HP would have to pay on a class-action suit.  ? VMS isn't some trivial thing like a printer cable that needs no @ advertising. It's a key (if we can believe HP) component of HP'sD Enterprise computing strategy. Hey...anyone seen or heard any recent2 Carly loves VMS statements (like since Christmas)?  F If what Sue mentioned IS true, me thinks it's time to head to the nextD HP annual meeting and standup and ask a couple of questions from theF floor, with my own pack of reporters in tow to record the answer. Even? though Walter Hewlett is no longer on the board of directors, IhD believe that the various family foundations still owns a whack of HP@ stock. I wonder what they'd think about this 'non-advertising ofF operating systems' business, whether they think it impairs shareholder9 value, and whether it merits activism from their end too.m  E In fact I think that every shareholder ought to write Carly about it.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:16:48 -0400u0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSo/ Message-ID: <3E597280.B5DA9B13@vl.videotron.ca>-   Robert Deininger wrote: < > But it doesn't matter.  You'd have bitched no matter what.  G If they simply renamed it to VMS and hp-VMS, I would not bitch. I bitch0H because they are working so damn hard to find complex names that confuse  people and reflect current fads.  N There is a big difference between deciding what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") returns,> and what you name the operating system for marketing purposes.  J The way Sue made it sound, the new name is to become the official name forM VMS, that is used is whatever promotional materials. *IF* that is the case, I N stand by my statement that they are making the very same mistake as Palmer did when he tagged the stupid Open.w  K In the early 1990s, "open" was the then buzzword. They tagged this onto VMStG with disastrous proportion and by the time they were done with the name % change, the "open" fad had long gone.s  M Now, they feel the need to embrace the stupid "industry standard" fad. At theh9 very least they could drop the dead "open" from the name.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:59:17 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: URL changeo/ Message-ID: <3E592813.F6E96A03@vl.videotron.ca>A   Island Computers wrote:r > A > We have just changed over from www.islandco.com to www.hpaq.netaA > Still great prices - a diifferent look and more reliable serverb  V Is that a change of ownership ? Just when you name was getting good brand recognition.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:42:35 -0500 0 From: "Island Computers" <dbturner@islandco.com> Subject: Re: URL changeS/ Message-ID: <v5ifsc4e8ggmec@news.supernews.com>g  & Same company - just another easier URL   Definitely the same company!!!   -- Island Computers US Corporation. 2700 Gregory St. Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free 1-877 636 4332 Tel: USA 912 447 66227 Fax: USA 912 201 0402. http://www.islandco.com- dbturner@islandco.come   Ask about our DS10L special!4 36 DS10L 600Mhz systems in rack for only $25,000 !!!= "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message$) news:3E592813.F6E96A03@vl.videotron.ca...t > Island Computers wrote:c > >>C > > We have just changed over from www.islandco.com to www.hpaq.netNC > > Still great prices - a diifferent look and more reliable server  >nK > Is that a change of ownership ? Just when you name was getting good brandl recognition.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:44:22 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>p Subject: Re: URL changeo2 Message-ID: <3E5994E0.E2FCCA5D@firstdbasource.com>   Island Computers wrote:l > ( > Same company - just another easier URL >   > Definitely the same company!!! >  > --! > Island Computers US Corporation  > 2700 Gregory St. Suite 180 > Savannah GA 31404  > Toll Free 1-877 636 4332 > Tel: USA 912 447 6622( > Fax: USA 912 201 0402u > http://www.islandco.comm > dbturner@islandco.come >  > Ask about our DS10L special!6 > 36 DS10L 600Mhz systems in rack for only $25,000 !!!? > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagec+ > news:3E592813.F6E96A03@vl.videotron.ca...  > > Island Computers wrote:  > > > E > > > We have just changed over from www.islandco.com to www.hpaq.netrE > > > Still great prices - a diifferent look and more reliable server  > >aM > > Is that a change of ownership ? Just when you name was getting good brande > recognition.    F Hopefully you have 2 domain names pointing to the same box until thoseD who know you as www.islandco.com get comfortable with using hpaq.net -- y Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:34:19 GMTn. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?3 Message-ID: <L%b6a.64399$Rb4.893193@news.chello.at>$  I I recently found a bug again which I already discovered many years ago...   L A SET COMMAND/OBJECT of a DECnet served source file (via SET DEFAULT node::)H produces a 0 byte object file without any error message. And it makes no? difference if you do it from VAX to Alpha or from Alpha to VAX.r  3 Has anyone a good explaination for this behaviour ?_8 And more important, can anyone (Guy ?) fix it, please...  J Background: I've an Alpha where I setup a source directory and a VAX whichJ is currently not clustered to the Alpha. I wanted to update JUMP from V3.0H to V4.2 (yes, I know, months too late) and ran @BUILD_JUMP on the Alpha.J All was smooth and well. Then I did a SET DEFAULT alpha::source-dir on theK VAX and ran @BUILD_JUMP on the VAX. LINK gave an undefined symbol JUMP_CLD. I And that was because the .OBJ of the SET COMM/OBJ JUMP_CLD.CLD was empty.t   Many TIA   -- T Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERt% Network and OpenVMS system specialisto E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.107 ************************