1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 108       Contents:G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft G Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft P =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_produP =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_produP Re: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_p: Re: A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks: Re: A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks% Re: CSWS/Apache 1.3 Log File problems  Re: Data in shareable image  Re: Data in shareable image ) Re: DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG ) Re: DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT  Re: Dumping LAT P Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopoP Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopoP Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo Re: EVA Courses ?  Re: EVA Courses ?  Re: EVA Courses ?  Re: EVA Courses ? ; Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems H Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume setP RE: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across P Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across H Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyH RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyB Re: Image restore of "old" saveset fails to restore VMS$COMMON.DIR( Re: Just wondering how everyone is doing" Re: Madison, successor to McKinley( Re: Need help passing text to executableP Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases	and  prodP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP OT: Good to Great [was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Micro	soft Monopoly  OT: Re: URL change Porting Library on 7.3-1 Re: Porting Library on 7.3-1 Re: Porting Library on 7.3-1  Problem using DELETE in VMS-mail$ Re: Problem using DELETE in VMS-mail$ Re: Problem using DELETE in VMS-mailB Problems connecting to PATHWORKS share ofter upgrade from V5 to V6) Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 % REMINDER: OpenVMS Itanium Boot Survey  Samba Missing stropts.h file+ Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + RE: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + RE: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box  SYS$ACM documentation  Re: SYS$ACM documentation  Re: SYS$ACM documentation ! technical question re. vms editor % Re: technical question re. vms editor % Re: technical question re. vms editor  Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS RE: The End of OpenVMS RE: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS RE: The End of OpenVMS Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: URL change Re: URL change Re: URL change- Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?  Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:39:43 GMT 4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft8 Message-ID: <gafj5vsacl62oava1vbplgmmeisnisbret@4ax.com>  8 On 20 Feb 2003 08:09:30 -0600 in alt.folklore.computers,< koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  V >In article <3E5386E7.B799F085@yahoo.com>, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes: >> Russell Wallace wrote: I >>> Yes, I know people who talk about "real computers" mean purpose-built J >>> Unix servers/minicomputers, not PCs running a Unix operating system :) >>  @ >> Nothing that can sit on (or under) a desk is a real computer. > E >   Once upon a time I would have said so, too.  But my desktop Alpha  >   changed my mind.  ; Do people still buy and use systems in desktop enclosures?  @ I've been using deskside tower enclosures since 386 days at home< and work: just make sure the air flow is *in* at the top and *out* at the bottom.    9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  --  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com  B abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:41:30 -0600 & From: ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.comP Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft8 Message-ID: <dqij5vsfrf94gmdhv3bfcs3j3rnqhj7mhu@4ax.com>  . On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:39:43 GMT, Brian Inglis( <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote: <snip>< >Do people still buy and use systems in desktop enclosures? A >I've been using deskside tower enclosures since 386 days at home = >and work: just make sure the air flow is *in* at the top and  >*out* at the bottom.    I see two problems there:   D 1) Heat usually wants to go UP, which means to do what you said, you need bigger and noiser fans.  D 2) Every PC tower cabinet that I have or have seen has air inlets at. the bottom front, and outlets at the rear top.    D I always tell my clients that have a tower on the floor, to raise it& up, and put it on a box, or something.  4 Most of my own systems live on a table or some such.   --  3 Arargh (at arargh dot com)    http://www.arargh.com B To reply by email, change the domain name, and remove the garbage.2 (Enteract can keep the spam, they are gone anyway)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:55:56 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft/ Message-ID: <3E59DDF9.84D13958@vl.videotron.ca>   ' ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.com wrote: F > 1) Heat usually wants to go UP, which means to do what you said, you > need bigger and noiser fans. > F > 2) Every PC tower cabinet that I have or have seen has air inlets at0 > the bottom front, and outlets at the rear top.  , "going up" is irrelevant when you have fans.  K The CPU has its own little fan so I am not worried. I am worried about disk N drives because this is where I have experienced failures on my mac (actually a. clone from the days when clones were allowed).  L  I have found that by reversing the fans (pushing air in), I no longer worryM about it sucking up dust from the floor, and more importantly, I seem to feel I far more air coming out of the front than I did feeling it coming in. And N momre importantly, I don't have dust cloging up the little slots/holes through& which air used to user, but now exits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:44:49 -0500 * From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.24.14.44.48.696197@nospam.invalid>   3 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:55:56 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:   ) > ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.com wrote: G >> 1) Heat usually wants to go UP, which means to do what you said, you  >> need bigger and noiser fans.  >>  G >> 2) Every PC tower cabinet that I have or have seen has air inlets at 1 >> the bottom front, and outlets at the rear top.  > . > "going up" is irrelevant when you have fans. > M > The CPU has its own little fan so I am not worried. I am worried about disk P > drives because this is where I have experienced failures on my mac (actually a0 > clone from the days when clones were allowed). > N >  I have found that by reversing the fans (pushing air in), I no longer worryO > about it sucking up dust from the floor, and more importantly, I seem to feel K > far more air coming out of the front than I did feeling it coming in. And P > momre importantly, I don't have dust cloging up the little slots/holes through( > which air used to user, but now exits.  H You always feel more air coming out of a fan than going in.  Do you alsoD feel more air coming in the back now?  No?  So what have you gained?  ? While it is possible to overcome natural convection with forced G convection, one must use fans larger than would be required to "go with ( the flow", with resulting greater noise.  G If you're worried about disks, then you want a fan blowing on them, not " sucking in their general vicinity.   --   --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net # (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:18:32 GMT 4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft8 Message-ID: <6qkk5vsukoaln132kuao34l4i2n85spq6l@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:44:49 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, "J. ' Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:   4 >On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 04:55:56 -0400, JF Mezei wrote: > * >> ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.com wrote:H >>> 1) Heat usually wants to go UP, which means to do what you said, you  >>> need bigger and noiser fans. >>> H >>> 2) Every PC tower cabinet that I have or have seen has air inlets at2 >>> the bottom front, and outlets at the rear top. >>  / >> "going up" is irrelevant when you have fans.  >>  N >> The CPU has its own little fan so I am not worried. I am worried about diskQ >> drives because this is where I have experienced failures on my mac (actually a 1 >> clone from the days when clones were allowed).  >>  O >>  I have found that by reversing the fans (pushing air in), I no longer worry P >> about it sucking up dust from the floor, and more importantly, I seem to feelL >> far more air coming out of the front than I did feeling it coming in. AndQ >> momre importantly, I don't have dust cloging up the little slots/holes through ) >> which air used to user, but now exits.  > I >You always feel more air coming out of a fan than going in.  Do you also E >feel more air coming in the back now?  No?  So what have you gained?  > @ >While it is possible to overcome natural convection with forcedH >convection, one must use fans larger than would be required to "go with) >the flow", with resulting greater noise.  > H >If you're worried about disks, then you want a fan blowing on them, not# >sucking in their general vicinity.   A Fans sucking in at or near floor level act as really great little @ vacuum cleaners, get lots of fibres inside the enclosure and get: clogged up themselves, stopping them doing their job. Fans= sucking in from the top and blowing out the bottom avoid this  failure mode.   9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  --  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com  B abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:59:26 -0500 : From: Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com>P Subject: Re: "Real Computer": was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft7 Message-ID: <slrnb5knbu.b9v.shannon@news.widomaker.com>   ? In article <3E59DDF9.84D13958@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote: ) > ararghNOSPAM@NOT.AT.enteract.com wrote: G >> 1) Heat usually wants to go UP, which means to do what you said, you  >> need bigger and noiser fans.  >>  G >> 2) Every PC tower cabinet that I have or have seen has air inlets at 1 >> the bottom front, and outlets at the rear top.  > . > "going up" is irrelevant when you have fans.  D No, it is highly relevant.  Check out some papers on ventilation and2 convection in case design.  It's _very_ important.  # Most PC cases are terrible at this.   M > The CPU has its own little fan so I am not worried. I am worried about disk P > drives because this is where I have experienced failures on my mac (actually a0 > clone from the days when clones were allowed).  H If that CPU fan is drawing hot air, it's probably doing nothing for you.  N >  I have found that by reversing the fans (pushing air in), I no longer worryO > about it sucking up dust from the floor, and more importantly, I seem to feel K > far more air coming out of the front than I did feeling it coming in. And P > momre importantly, I don't have dust cloging up the little slots/holes through( > which air used to user, but now exits.  9 I'd say you've change nothing except to lower throughput.   H There are only two things that matter in cooling: air input temperature, and total throughput.   H You also have to remember that throughput is only as high as the slowestE fan.  If you have to 80CFM input fans and a single 80CFM output, your F airflow is only going to be 80CFM.  Yes, case holes and the output fan? speeding up will effect things, but this is the basic equation.   H In general, you want positive case pressure, so it's better to have moreH input than output fans, at least in a PC.  This will keep all the little8 edges, interfaces, and other holes from collecting dust.  G Unfortunately, a lot of PCs have several output fans, and one input fan G in the bottom from, trying to suck air though a very inefficient grill. E This not only mucks up airflow, but it draws dust in over the drives, " and every little hole in the case.  B I've been seeing new cases with 4-input fans, and 2-4 output fans,8 and they seem to stay a lot cooler and a lot less dusty.  D The PC tower is really a difficult configuration to cool adequately.  E If you look at things like a DEC or HP tower configuration, they have F a defined airflow path in the system.  Almost no consumer PC has this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:06:38 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_produ + Message-ID: <00A1BFB7.F06086BF.23@decus.de>   5 "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:   : > In article <3E5975BB.7B1C3034@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei* > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >  > >Our Dear Sue wrote:J > >>> and our customers.  But if the company ***does not allow advertisingL > >>> for OS's *** we can not, we work for HP, and ***that is their rule***.' > >>> ***It is not an option period.***  >  > [...]  > G > VMS promotional efforts seem to be focused on potential (and current) F > customers who already mostly know what they want.  When the vague HPK > "solution" campaign gets a customer to the point of asking questions, VMS K > will be on the menu.  I think quite a bit of effort goes into making sure * > the VMS story is told in these meetings. >  > [...]   D That's not exactly my experience. (Well, I have no direct experienceD for about the last year, but I doubt anything has changed much.) YouF have to insist and ask many times for VMS specific solutions to have a> sales person ask: "VMS? What's that?" But that requires that a* (potential) customer already knows of VMS.  > The (only in a statistical sense) "normal" answer probably is: (1) "Windows is the solution." (2) "What is your problem?"    Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:08:24 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_produ + Message-ID: <00A1BFB8.2FB5342D.28@decus.de>   4 "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote:   > [...]  >  > Official Name ? > The following is the official name for OpenVMS on the Itanium F > platform. This is the full name of the product and to be used in any0 > title, header, and first mention in body text. > # > "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"   A Well, I guess that isn't quite correct -- despite all the lawyers % involved -- and has to be changed to:   0 "hp(tm) OpenVMS(tm) Industry Standard(tm) 64(R)"  8 "hp" and "OpenVMS" are trademarks of HP(tm) Corporation.D "Industry Standard" is a claimed trademark of Intel(tm) Corporation.D "64" is a registered trademark of DEC(tm) -- now a part of HP(tm) --L which is used as a short description of its 21064 family of microprocessors.L "DEC" is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation -- now part of HP(tm).9 "HP" is a trademark of "The New Hewlett-Packard Company". 0 "Intel" is a trademark of the Intel Corporation.   (Did I miss anything ? :-)   >  > Informal Name @ > The following is the informal use of the name. We can use thisE > abbreviated name after we formally state the official name and have ' > subsequent references to the product.  >  > "OpenVMS I64"  >  > [...]   4 No personal offense against Sue intended, of course.   Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:45:37 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> Y Subject: Re: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=A9_releases_and_p H Message-ID: <5Ts6a.69861$Zr%.46534@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message % news:00A1BFB8.2FB5342D.28@decus.de... 6 > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote: > 	 > > [...]  > >  > > Official Name A > > The following is the official name for OpenVMS on the Itanium D > > platform. This is the full name of the product and to be used in any 2 > > title, header, and first mention in body text. > > % > > "hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"  > C > Well, I guess that isn't quite correct -- despite all the lawyers ' > involved -- and has to be changed to:  > 2 > "hp(tm) OpenVMS(tm) Industry Standard(tm) 64(R)" > : > "hp" and "OpenVMS" are trademarks of HP(tm) Corporation.F > "Industry Standard" is a claimed trademark of Intel(tm) Corporation.F > "64" is a registered trademark of DEC(tm) -- now a part of HP(tm) --= > which is used as a short description of its 21064 family of  microprocessors.F > "DEC" is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation -- now part of HP(tm). ; > "HP" is a trademark of "The New Hewlett-Packard Company". 2 > "Intel" is a trademark of the Intel Corporation. >  > (Did I miss anything ? :-)    - It would be hilarious if it weren't all true.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:31:46 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy C Subject: Re: A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks . Message-ID: <3E5A48F2.6010909@nospamn.sun.com>   John Smith wrote: H > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nf/20030221/tc_nf/2081 > 5&e=4  > F > Of course, the 64-megabit question is: How do you tell exactly whichE > bottleneck is bugging a user of a particular computer system? There @ > are few good comparisons of overall computing performance. The@ > Standard Performance Evaluation Corporation, or SPEC, based inA > Warranton, Virginia, has for years provided what has come to be H > regarded as the standard measure of basic chip performance, by runningE > a variety of sample algorithms against each new processor. But just E > about everyone in the semiconductor industry knows the tests do not , > really model what a user might want to do. >  > F > How bad is the divide? Halfhill noted that cache memory has grown soF > large that some processors can hold the entire test suite in on-chipH > memory, masking any bus speed problems. And John D. McCalpin, a seniorH > scientist with IBM (NYSE: IBM - news), wrote in a recent comparison ofG > benchmarks and observed system performance that there is virtually no F > correlation between real-world applications and standard benchmarks.D > His conclusion: "In order to make this quantitative evaluation, weC > need to gather and share a lot more data from real applications."  >  > 0 > Guess that's why Sun likes benchmarks so much. >   9 Humm, if you actually read and comprehend the article, it 8 says almost exactly what I have been saying and its also% pretty much Sun's party line as well.   ; Don't use micro-benchmarks like TPC-C or component specific : benchmarks like SPEC unless you are totally confident that= your application behaves exactly like them, instead benchmark ; your application or the next best thing a capacity planning  benchmark for your application.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:54:30 -0500 A From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com> C Subject: Re: A long-winded piece that ultimately gets to benchmarks , Message-ID: <3e5a5c57_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  . Always ask "So what are they trying to hide?".  G Sure, just like the horsepower rating doesn't tell you how a truck will J perform, but I would be suspicious if the dealer started out by telling me that it's meaningless.  K Sun has a point - benchmarks are not a substitute for testing the customers I own workload.  Which is why VMS sponsors a number of centers for customer J benchmarking.  On the other hand, it's a bit disingenuous to 'cherry pick'H the benchmarks that you support - simply because you look so bad on some) that you can't easily defend the numbers.       K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 wrote in message news:3E5A48F2.6010909@nospamn.sun.com...  >  >  > John Smith wrote: J > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nf/20030221/tc_nf/2081	 > > 5&e=4  > > H > > Of course, the 64-megabit question is: How do you tell exactly whichG > > bottleneck is bugging a user of a particular computer system? There B > > are few good comparisons of overall computing performance. TheB > > Standard Performance Evaluation Corporation, or SPEC, based inC > > Warranton, Virginia, has for years provided what has come to be J > > regarded as the standard measure of basic chip performance, by runningG > > a variety of sample algorithms against each new processor. But just G > > about everyone in the semiconductor industry knows the tests do not . > > really model what a user might want to do. > >  > > H > > How bad is the divide? Halfhill noted that cache memory has grown soH > > large that some processors can hold the entire test suite in on-chipJ > > memory, masking any bus speed problems. And John D. McCalpin, a seniorJ > > scientist with IBM (NYSE: IBM - news), wrote in a recent comparison ofI > > benchmarks and observed system performance that there is virtually no H > > correlation between real-world applications and standard benchmarks.F > > His conclusion: "In order to make this quantitative evaluation, weE > > need to gather and share a lot more data from real applications."  > >  > > 2 > > Guess that's why Sun likes benchmarks so much. > >  > ; > Humm, if you actually read and comprehend the article, it : > says almost exactly what I have been saying and its also' > pretty much Sun's party line as well.  > = > Don't use micro-benchmarks like TPC-C or component specific < > benchmarks like SPEC unless you are totally confident that? > your application behaves exactly like them, instead benchmark = > your application or the next best thing a capacity planning ! > benchmark for your application.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:41:37 -0500 + From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> . Subject: Re: CSWS/Apache 1.3 Log File problems0 Message-ID: <7fq6a.258$OO1.238@news.cpqcorp.net>  8 "ted crane" <googlepost01@tedcrane.com> wrote in message6 news:dd169acf.0302212223.a7e5ea8@posting.google.com...0 > Please excuse me for being such a bulldog with0 > this set of questions, but it seems to me that2 > the various postings in reply to my original are" > sortof dancing around the issue. > [snip]  : There are problems with the FLUSH/NEW commands in CSWS 1.2A and 1.3 that may cause loss of data. We recommend that people not 6 use these commands until a fix is available (shortly).  G There has been a recent report of data loss ("holes in the access log") A when FLUSH/NEW was not used. We're investigating that report, but E so far we have not been able to determine whether there is a software J problem or not. We have not been able to duplicate the problem internally,K but we'll continue to investigate until we have an explanation for the data  loss.   H If we discover that there is a problem, we'll fix it and provide a patch kit.  
 Rick Barry HP Secure Web Server OpenVMS System Software Group  Hewlett Packard Company 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:22:06 GMT 4 From: "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se>$ Subject: Re: Data in shareable image@ Message-ID: <6cf7b707a52cce370b594dfae1fe2f49@news.teranews.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E551E8D.D52B4756@vl.videotron.ca...  > Johan Nilsson wrote:L > > an Alpha OpenVMS system. The data is declared as a C struct, linked into a L > > shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition fromJ > > another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data inG > > the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.  > L > The linker is totally separate from the compiler.  When you compile module A L > which includes XX.H, the compiler has no way of knowing that XX.H was alsoJ > included in module B. And the compiler doesn't even know that the module being = > compiler will be linked against a specific shareable image.  >   
 Of course.  L > So you must tell us the exact error message and whether it is being issued by > the compiler, or the linker.  G This is approximately what I'm doing (fictious names, sorry for typos):    *** common.h *** ...  #pragma member_alignment struct common_type {      .... };( extern struct common_type common_struct; *** end common.h ***   *** common.c ***! struct common_type common_struct;  *** end common.c ***     *** client.c *** #include "common.h"   
 void foo() {    ... use common_struct ...  }  *** end client.c ***    / To compile and link common.c (beware of typos):    $  cc common /standard=vaxc  $ link/share/map common, -
 SYS$INPUT/OPT  GSMATCH=lequal,1,1000 # SYMBOL_VECTOR=(common_struct=PSECT)  PSECT_ATTR=common_struct,SHR <ctrl-z>  J (I then copy the image to sys$share and install using the INSTALL utility, using the /SHARE switch)  J To compile and link client.c (It is in the link stage below that the error* occurs, unless I pad the struct manually):  / $ cc client/extern=common/standard=vaxc/warning * $ link client.obj/EXECUTABLE=client.exe, -    SYS$INPUT/OPTIONS    sys$share:common/share     PSECT_ATTR=common_struct,SHR  <ctrl-z>  H The linker is issuing the error %LINK-E-SHRPSCLNG, informing me that theB data in the shareable image is 956 bytes versus 960 in the client.   Thanks // Johan    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:19:54 GMT 4 From: "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se>$ Subject: Re: Data in shareable image@ Message-ID: <423351ede84710b03cf35acd7a999436@news.teranews.com>  > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:b336ia$883$1@knossos.btinternet.com...  > Hi,  > L > Apparently it's a standard that (all?) compilers except MACRO adhere to on@ > Alpha. What did you declare the installed in-memory copy with?  I I'm not sure what you're getting at (/WRITE?) - could you please be a bit  more	 specific?    > I recall John F > Reagan gave the answer a year or two ago but it should be in Google. >   L Searched Google, but couldn't really find anything related to this (not that I recognized anyway).    Thanks // Johan    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:15:37 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 2 Subject: Re: DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-BWoKWokhDOfL@localhost>   > On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:52:29 UTC, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave  Weatherall) wrote:  5 > DEFINE PTHREAD_CONFIG "meter=mutex,stack;width=132"  > B > The doc definitley seems to imply that 'meter=1' is not a valid 	 > option.  > A > At home can't check - must get around to setting up a hobbyist  F > environment. I tend to favour the logical though. Definite room for # > improvement in the manual though.   E Sorry for the follow-up. What a wally, Brian clearly says he's using  3 DEFINE /SYSTEM/EXEC. Hope you're on the mend Brian.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:05:52 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: DECthreads question re PTHREAD_CONFIG0 Message-ID: <00A1BF5B.A8E948E8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-BWoKWokhDOfL@localhost>, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) writes: ? >On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:52:29 UTC, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave   >Weatherall) wrote:  > 6 >> DEFINE PTHREAD_CONFIG "meter=mutex,stack;width=132" >>  C >> The doc definitley seems to imply that 'meter=1' is not a valid  
 >> option. >>  B >> At home can't check - must get around to setting up a hobbyist G >> environment. I tend to favour the logical though. Definite room for  $ >> improvement in the manual though. > F >Sorry for the follow-up. What a wally, Brian clearly says he's using  >DEFINE /SYSTEM/EXEC.   D Correct and even with PTHREAD_CONFIG defined to "meter=all" there isD no change in how the application behaves and no "metering" output as I might has expected.      >Hope you're on the mend Brian.   6 I am.  Still not 100% but better than the alternative.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:34:53 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Dumping LAT) Message-ID: <3E59F54D.960648A5@127.0.0.1>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > V > Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3E58E5C6.6030100@vajhoej.dk>... > > Bob Ceculski wrote: F > > > why not go with decnet over IP and have the best of both worlds? > > 5 > > And what does that have to do with the question ?  > > * > > I have never heard about LAT over IP ! > >  > > Arne > 6 > if they dump lat, and go IP, decnet over IP at least8 > preserves VMS network functionality fully ... I didn't& > say it was a replacement for lat ...  = Yes, but please understand the difference between LAT and IP.   D If your objective is to carry things, LAT is a bucket, IP is a paper bag.  F Carrying a bucket in a paper bag may work, but when it rains you could have a problem.  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:28:10 -0500 & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: Dumping LAT0 Message-ID: <B0q6a.250$yN1.109@news.cpqcorp.net>   John N. wrote: > L > But now I have to justify keeping LAT.  Other than saying "better trackingK > of connection sources", or "better support for reverse operation ,such as G > printing", I need some real arguments.  The word "better" is somewhat 
 > subjective.   H One of the things I like about LAT is that you can reconnect to dropped F SET HOST /LAT sessions.  I don't think you can do that with TELNET or  RLOGIN or even CTERM, can you?     --   John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader0 Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:36:49 +0200.% From: Gabriel Sterk <Gabi@aipm.co.il>s Subject: Re: Dumping LAT< Message-ID: <A03E427CB023D511A6F900508B44ED0D01E4B39A@HDEX1>  ? Autologin (SYSMAN) can be defined only by using lat connectionsM (as far as I know).s   Regards, Gabriel Sterk      -----Original Message------ From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@hp.com]p' Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 3:28 PM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- Subject: Re: Dumping LAT   > L > But now I have to justify keeping LAT.  Other than saying "better trackingK > of connection sources", or "better support for reverse operation ,such as_G > printing", I need some real arguments.  The word "better" is somewhath
 > subjective.e   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 09:17:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Dumping LAT3 Message-ID: <C2cbh5CWiEvI@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  Y In article <B0q6a.250$yN1.109@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:p > John N. wrote: >> AM >> But now I have to justify keeping LAT.  Other than saying "better tracking L >> of connection sources", or "better support for reverse operation ,such asH >> printing", I need some real arguments.  The word "better" is somewhat >> subjective. > J > One of the things I like about LAT is that you can reconnect to dropped H > SET HOST /LAT sessions.  I don't think you can do that with TELNET or   > RLOGIN or even CTERM, can you?  A It can be done with various brands of Telnet, although I have hadE trouble configuring it.a  A It cannot be done with SET HOST (CTERM) because RTDRIVER is not a @ real terminal port driver.  Instead, RTDRIVER is a skimpy little> driver that counts on all the VMS terminal support having been done at the client end.   > That said, CTERM is much more efficient its use of the channel? than any of the others since terminal handling (including echo)s? is all done at the client end.  The only thing that could touchrC it was the Xyplex private protocol (before they downgraded to LAT).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:37:52 +0000i) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>a Subject: Re: Dumping LAT& Message-ID: <3E5A4A60.2010703@iee.org>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:[ > In article <B0q6a.250$yN1.109@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:aJ >>One of the things I like about LAT is that you can reconnect to dropped H >>SET HOST /LAT sessions.  I don't think you can do that with TELNET or   >>RLOGIN or even CTERM, can you? >  > C > It can be done with various brands of Telnet, although I have had- > trouble configuring it.E  > I thought BGDRIVER was a proper port driver these days (but my? memory could be failing me here ...). This would obviously varyI3 according to the stack, my experience was with UCX.o  C > It cannot be done with SET HOST (CTERM) because RTDRIVER is not a B > real terminal port driver.  Instead, RTDRIVER is a skimpy little@ > driver that counts on all the VMS terminal support having been > done at the client end.M  < It can also be done with X.29 terminals (NV: devices) on VAX< (and probably Alpha too, since it's NVDRIVER is derived from1 the VAX one). I'm not suggesting using it ... :-)$     --   ---------------$- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orge   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 10:54:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h Subject: Re: Dumping LAT3 Message-ID: <hV4OVFucICPu@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  R In article <3E5A4A60.2010703@iee.org>, Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:\ >> In article <B0q6a.250$yN1.109@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:K >>>One of the things I like about LAT is that you can reconnect to dropped tI >>>SET HOST /LAT sessions.  I don't think you can do that with TELNET or e! >>>RLOGIN or even CTERM, can you?  >> i >> SD >> It can be done with various brands of Telnet, although I have had >> trouble configuring it. > @ > I thought BGDRIVER was a proper port driver these days (but myA > memory could be failing me here ...). This would obviously vary 5 > according to the stack, my experience was with UCX.s > D >> It cannot be done with SET HOST (CTERM) because RTDRIVER is not aC >> real terminal port driver.  Instead, RTDRIVER is a skimpy littlesA >> driver that counts on all the VMS terminal support having beeno >> done at the client end. > > > It can also be done with X.29 terminals (NV: devices) on VAX> > (and probably Alpha too, since it's NVDRIVER is derived from > the VAX one).a  @ I think it likely that RTDRIVER is the only terminal driver left> that is not a proper port driver, and it is certainly the only one with a good reason for it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:53:01 GMT 4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopoe8 Message-ID: <bjfj5v84sentr8heq0gv9hbv983j53ljgu@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:02:42 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, "J.t' Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:h  6 >On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:42:03 +0000, CBFalconer wrote: >  >> "J. Clarke" wrote:	< >>> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500, Julian Thomas wrote:( >>> > J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid> >>> J >>> > may have used oatmeal boxes, old string, and new, used, and recycled* >>> > electrons to say (at least in part): >>> >oH >>> >> Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all serverE >>> >> and workstation class machines can support it if the purchasereI >>> >> chooses to put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" and G >>> >> consumer machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm usingcJ >>> >> right now has ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and back again" >>> >2K >>> > These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird that offeriK >>> > ECC. Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's not widelyu >>> > available. >>> D >>> Any of the 762 boards will support ECC.  The 761 chipset has theJ >>> necessary support however vendors seem to not enable it.  Trouble withK >>> AMD is that most of the vendors are targetting the consumer market, noteK >>> the workstation/server market, and in the consumer market for those whoeI >>> even know that ECC exists, it is considered to be undesirable because I >>> there is an infinitesimal performance penalty that might cost a tenth  >>> of an FPS in Quake.h >>  G >> And also the 'saving' of approximately 10% of the memory cost, to betF >> repaid many times over the first time something is destroyed by any >> memory failures.m > I >Sometimes.  But remember, some of these are the folks who run RAID 1 and-H >shell out 700 bucks for a Vapochill or Prometeia phase-change cooler in* >the hopes of running their P4 at 3.5 GHz.  < I'd think ECC would be an essential protective investment ifA you're paying serious money for speed, and not just trying to get . a few extra percent of something for no cost. > IMHO you can't detect any difference unless you can double theA speed of a system, or push response below the annoyance thresholdh! of whatever you're trying to do. t  H >> I would almost rather buy day old hamburger that has been kept in the >> sun.e  ; I'm not sure Suns have enough cooling for that to be safe! w  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadae -- vF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com eB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam trapst   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:53:02 -0500 * From: "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo:; Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.24.14.52.59.427496@nospam.invalid>-  7 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:53:01 +0000, Brian Inglis wrote:p  C > On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:02:42 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, "J. ) > Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote:  > 7 >>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:42:03 +0000, CBFalconer wrote:  >> >>> "J. Clarke" wrote:= >>>> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:32 -0500, Julian Thomas wrote:e) >>>> > J. Clarke <nospam1@nospam.invalid>t >>>> nB >>>> > may have used oatmeal boxes, old string, and new, used, and4 >>>> > recycled electrons to say (at least in part): >>>> >I >>>> >> Whether a PC has ECC or not is buyer's choice.  Nearly all servervF >>>> >> and workstation class machines can support it if the purchaserJ >>>> >> chooses to put in the appropriate RAM modules.  Some "desktop" andH >>>> >> consumer machines can support it as well.  The machine I'm usingD >>>> >> right now has ECC "from the CPU cache out to memory and back >>>> >> again" >>>> >F >>>> > These days there are very few motherboards for Thunderbird thatG >>>> > offer ECC. Epox 8k7a seems to be almost the only one, and that's. >>>> > not widely available. >>>> uE >>>> Any of the 762 boards will support ECC.  The 761 chipset has thekF >>>> necessary support however vendors seem to not enable it.  TroubleE >>>> with AMD is that most of the vendors are targetting the consumertJ >>>> market, not the workstation/server market, and in the consumer marketD >>>> for those who even know that ECC exists, it is considered to beF >>>> undesirable because there is an infinitesimal performance penalty0 >>>> that might cost a tenth of an FPS in Quake. >>> H >>> And also the 'saving' of approximately 10% of the memory cost, to beG >>> repaid many times over the first time something is destroyed by anyu >>> memory failures. >>J >>Sometimes.  But remember, some of these are the folks who run RAID 1 andI >>shell out 700 bucks for a Vapochill or Prometeia phase-change cooler in + >>the hopes of running their P4 at 3.5 GHz.e > E > I'd think ECC would be an essential protective investment if you'rerH > paying serious money for speed, and not just trying to get a few extraH > percent of something for no cost. IMHO you can't detect any differenceI > unless you can double the speed of a system, or push response below theh6 > annoyance threshold of whatever you're trying to do.  J Overclocking is the computer equivalent of hotrodding.  Not much practicalJ utility but can be fun if your mind goes in that direction.  Always cracksC me up the way these kids talk about one machine which has 2% betteraJ performance than another "kicking it's ass" or "wiping the floor with it".   I >>> I would almost rather buy day old hamburger that has been kept in the  >>> sun. > < > I'm not sure Suns have enough cooling for that to be safe! > ; > Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadai   -- g --John- Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot netn# (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:06:47 -0000o2 From: "Helmut P. Einfalt" <hp.einfalt@t-online.de>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopol/ Message-ID: <b3dfvg$kvg$07$1@news.t-online.com>n  2 >Always cracks me up the way these kids talk about< >one machine which has 2% better performance than another...  E ...and bear in mind that it is *benchmark* perfomance more often thant not...!g   Helmut --  Brought to you by IBM PS/2 power   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:12:34 -0000t* From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?5 Message-ID: <rRMBeT#2CHA.4900@juno.intranet.dabs.com>n  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messageh# news:3E577852.35E6C5A7@127.0.0.1...y > Craig Cooke wrote: > >r/ > > The company I work for has recently aquiredi > >o > > Two HSV110 Controllers0 > > 1 x Compaq SAN works Management Appliance II > >o > > 1 x SAN Switch 2/16-EL >lB > Did they put them where the public trade counter used to be? ;-) >mJ > > Is anyone aware of any course being run by any company that would help us tot; > > configure / commission this EVA equipment effectively ?- >-J > Of course, contact the supplier! The courses do have an OpenVMS bias butA > cover all operating systems. It could almost make NT admins VMS & > converts, but that is another story. >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesE > nclews at csc dot comr   Hi Nic,M  J I contacted HP 11 days ago - I'm still awaiting a response. The collectionE counter is not going to be used as the new systems room :-) - we are,dC however, contemplating installing a new DR / shadow site in the NLCe (National Logistics Centre).   Regardsr   Craig Cookes   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:14:22 -0500o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2402030814220001@user-uinj46u.dialup.mindspring.com>  C In article <rRMBeT#2CHA.4900@juno.intranet.dabs.com>, "Craig Cooke"a <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> wrote:i    < >I contacted HP 11 days ago - I'm still awaiting a response.  I I think that's too long to wait for a response to a VMS inquiry.  Did youtE make contact through the right channel?  Sales and training questionseH should get fast response, IMHO.  Even if it's "we're looking for info". H Digital and Compaq were usually horrible at this, and HP doesn't seem toH have fixed the problem. Consider contacting someone higher up in the VMS
 organization.d  J (Some forums, like Ask The Wizard, are explicitly slow. If you ignored theH instructions and asked an urgent question, you'll be very disappointed.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:46:12 +0000p( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?) Message-ID: <3E5A3E44.9C5C84D0@127.0.0.1>.   Craig Cooke wrote: > L > I contacted HP 11 days ago - I'm still awaiting a response. The collectionG > counter is not going to be used as the new systems room :-) - we are,hE > however, contemplating installing a new DR / shadow site in the NLCr > (National Logistics Centre).   I think this is your answer:  ' This is the SAN Controller course (HSV)d  E It was a company called HOST, Compaq use them for their training too.a   URL = www.hostcomputers.co.uka   HTH  -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:03:20 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?) Message-ID: <3E5A4248.7434E91A@127.0.0.1>s   Roy Omond wrote: > :  > I know of a company in the UK that may be able to help. >  > "dabs.com" ... Bolton.  C Nay lad, Wingates, Westhoughton (a.k.a. Keaw Yed). Home t' Wingates  Temperance Brass Band tha nos.  & http://www.bolton.org.uk/wingates.html  : > Friend of mine went on the course given by (then) Compaq8 > in Manchester, so he (Craig) won't have far to travel.  & There's a story in there, eh Craig ;-)   -- h? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences2 nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:13:10 +00001' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyzD Subject: Re: How to Avoid the Almost Certain End of Sun Microsystems. Message-ID: <3E5A0C56.7090003@nospamn.sun.com>   Kesav Tadimeti wrote:>	 > Andrew,*H > I believe Sun could be the only company that *COULD* challenge MS. TheM > masses want an affordable platform in the form of IA32. Until recently, SuntM > wanted to push SPARC/Solaris and I guess that's one reason why they've beenh > losing a lot of money. uI > I wonder, why doesn't SUN market Intel/Solaris actively as a desktop assM > well? I am subscribed to the INTELONSOLARIS mailing list, and there's a lots< > of resentment there, though they were consoled by SOl. 9.   : In hindsight the decision to drop Solaris x86 was probably7 a mistake. We didn't appreciate the level of commitment : there was to it out there. Probably because we didn't know who our x86 users were.t  7 We did listen however and unlike other vendors have hadq5 the guts to reverse the decision and Solaris 9 x86 is. now available.  8 As for the desktop, the issue is as far as I know mostly5 arround device support, its easier on servers because 5 you don't have a plethora of graphics adpators, input,7 devices etc to support. Most servers are built to orderd7 you can specify which SCSI adaptor etc, so you have then7 opportunity to build a system that uses components with0 device driver support.  8 Most desktops are packaged systems, graphics, modem, nic6 etc and there is less leaway (if you are talking about one of the branded vendors).   > 6 >>As an example the largest single technology donation1 >>made by IBM to the OpenSource community is JFS.r >>6 >>Value of donation to OpenSource Community = Low to 0 >>6 >>Why because XFS donated by SGI is a superior product > < >>from a performance standpoint, its over 2x the performance > / >>and ext3 is also faster though less reliable.d >  > = > I wonder how good ReiserFS is compared to XFS,JFS and ext3.s >   2 I don't know I have only seen the numbers for XFS,2 JFS and ext3. JFS despite ita apparent performance1 pedigree on AIX performs worse than both ext3 and 3 XFS. To be fair ext3 doesn't compare in capabilitesk) to JFS but XFS does and its a lot faster.r   > . >>Sun has donated Java, widely used value high > N > OK. But why has SUN abandoned C/C++? Does SUN still ship Forte for C++? I amN > thinking of getting a boxed set of SOl.8 but it is available from the US andN > nowhere else. I need to pay for the shipping and customs. Would be better ifN > Sun could have this sold thru Sun India. It looks like SUN doesn't *WANT* toN > take up opportunities. Sun,I believe, is the only company right now to offerJ > products of value on Intel. Too bad, they don't want to make the offer.  >   6 Sun hasn't abandoned C/C++ we have just re-branded the: Forte products as Sun One Studio 7 (AKA Forte 7). Includes7 C/C++, Fortran and Java plus performance lib, debugger,. threads analyser etc etc.   $ You can get a 60 day eval copy from.  8 http://wwws.sun.com/software/sundev/suncc/buy/index.html       > ( >>Gnome is our most visible donation ??? > 4 > REally, I thought GONME was made by the GNU folks. >   4 Well quite, Sun has made some donations to GNOME and6 is working with ximian but GNOME didn't originate from4 Sun not is it remotely our moust important donation.   > : >>The openSource folks preception is pretty warped if that9 >>is what they think and IBM have obviously been doing an 7 >>excellent smoke and mirrors job, but in reality theirp9 >>biggest donation is JFS which isn't widely used becausen0 >>its inferior to other OpenSource alternatives. >  >  > Linux bigot's observation:E > *IBM is actively adopting Linux and introducing them into corporate  > computing.1 > *SUN is actively proposing Solaris (not Free). nJ > Linux bigot's conclusion: Therefore, IBM is THE computer company that is > promoting Linux.  9 Sun is actively promoting the idea that people choose thee8 right tool for the job. IBM with its very large services: organistation has the option of helping people adapt Linux to fit the job in hand.f  > This of course isn't free but it represents a huge opportunity; to IBM and it is clearly a very significant driver to their  adoption of Linux.  A Personally I would prefer to choose the right technology platformg@ rather than using services to try to adapt something else to fit	 the bill.y  < Any services led platform solution is unlikely to be able to= compete from a TCO standpoint with a solution that gets theree9 with minimal services and based on its technology merits.c  M > With sensible pricing and strong commitment, Sun can be successful with thefJ > Solaris on Intel. I think adopting Linux was a mistake. IN fact, why not7 > make a port to other platforms as well (MIPS, IA-64)?s >   = Solaris x86 is pretty competitive pricing wise, $95 is a keenm9 price particularly when compared with any of the paid fore Linux distros.   > G >>>They have admitted that AIX is no longer their long term comittment,  >>>that was my main point. >>>m >> > 9 >>No they havn't that wasn't what the press release said.h >  > M > Check TheRegister (www.theregister.co.uk). It has been rated as the No.1 ITt > news service vendor in UK.  H > They reported something similar to the effect that IBM was consideringI > replacing AIX (not too popular) with Linux as IBM's leading UNIX. Don'ts< > exactly remember if they want to phase out AIX completely. >   F They said they were considering it but that if it happened it wouldn'tA be for a decade at least. 10 years is a bit too long a time frameaC to take seriously either as a commitment for Linux or an expressionu of desupport for AIX.s     Regardso Andrew Harrisonm   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Feb 2003 22:23:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)rQ Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume setm3 Message-ID: <UHrEbs$k15p0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3E57F0CC.59AA8D46@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:p > Daniel Allen wrote:s >> n >> > -----Original Message----- ; >> > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]-- >> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:47 PM0 >> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >> > Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5c >> > >> > >> > "henry g." wrote: >> > > >> > > Thanks David. >> > >K >> > > This was a little complex, most of the engineers I spoke with didn'trH >> > > know the answer for certain... we all speculated but yours is the< >> > > first with actual hands-on experience in this matter. >> > > >> > > Thanks again! >> > >> > Any time. >> >C >> > ...but that said, consider: HBVS *IS* RAID, RAID-1 to be exactnM >> > (shadowing/mirroring). Shadow-sets can be bound into volume-sets. ShouldfE >> > anything happen to a shadow-set (like lose all the members), the  >> > volume-set goes *PIFT*. >> >G >> > That's why I prefer using mirrored stripe-sets that are mounted assL >> > single-volume disk devices. Stripe for capacity, mirror for redundancy.F >> > Watch your FAILEDSET and SPARESET, and set your mirror-set member' >> > replacement policy as appropriate.w >>   >>         David,n >> aS >>         Your comment caught my eye and led me to ask myself "how does VMS (HSxx)tQ >>         volume shadowing and striping compare (performance/price/feature) with K >>         current hardware commodity RAID offerings?". I haven't had a VMSoO >>         cluster with HS disks in a LONG time so I'm not current with today'stS >>         state of the art. If I understand your comment, you are suggesting using Q >>         HS based striping (RAID 0) and mirroring (RAID 1) to get big redundant P >>         volumes. What is the advantage of that config to a commodity RAID boxR >>         setup for RAID 0/1?. I've been sort of under the impression that modernI >>         HS controllers where basically cluster aware RAID controllers.l > , > Well, that's as fair an assessment as any. > H > Disk striping for OpenVMS is rather out of vogue, but there's probably% > sites that still use it, somewhere.D > E > Disk shadowing for OpenVMS is still widely used, as this forum will 	 > attest.a > I > On HSx's (HSJ, HSZ, HSG), RAID usually refers to RAID-5. Otherwise, youyF > as the SysAdmin elect whether to mirror stripe-sets or shadow (HBVS) > them.  > E > In *MY* mind, there are two major advantages to using RAID-1 in thee > HSx's instead of HBVS: > I > o Eliminates the shadow-set merge problem when a node exits the clusterkC > ungracefully or fails to properly DISMOUNT a shadow-set during anm > orderly shutdown.i >   > 	This isn't a problem if using HSJ kit.  Depending on how risk< 	averse your situation , it may not be a big problem even if	 	merging.   H > o Eliminates the host I/O load associated with shadow-copy and -merge.E > For example, on a three-node Alpha 8400 cluster, shadow-copy of 8GBeH > volumes was taking between five and eight hours based on what else wasG > happening in the cluster. Merges could runs for weeks. Mirror-copy on H > the HSJs took just short of 52 minutes fairly consistently when you do- > them one at a time per dual-redundant pair.   : 	This is highly storage dependent.  My 8 GByte full copies; 	take around 15 minutes.  The copy back is taking advantagesE 	of DCD , no IO load on the systems (total IO to complete copy?  150 sA 	or so) using triple shadowed members.  With VMS 7.3+ and shadow h@ 	mini-copy, very large volumes take a minute or two to synch up.  F > The single disadvantage is that there is no supported way to split aH > mirror-set from within a batch (BACKUP) job. There once was with HSZs:@ > HSZPAD$SCSITERM, the program behind the SET HOST/SCSI command.  ? 	That isn't the biggest disadvantage.  The biggest disadvantage C 	is availability.  That LUN is on a single controller or controllerF@ 	pair.  The controller pair takes a hit, you are shot... or more< 	common, the drive fails to failover OR the RAIDset fails to, 	rebuild.  This is always good to dredge up:  T http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37362F41.D486B822%40winternet.com&output=gplain  F Absolutely.  You simply can not trust mirrored controllers to maintain8 the data as much as you can host-based volume shadowing.  B I have personally seen a case where a single bad drive caused BOTHG controllers in a dual-redundant configuration to crash.  The drive hung C the SCSI bus.  When the first controller detected this, it tried tosE reset the bus.  When it wouldn't reset, it assumed the controller was0G culprit and crashed itself, causing the drive to fail over to the othero? controller, which promptly crashed, until I finally intervened.a  G I've also seen a case where a controller pair disagreed on the state ofaE a 5 member RAID-5 set.  The entire set had to be restored from backupW tapes (36GB worth of data).n  H I am currently using RAID-5 with redundant controllers within a cabinet,H and host-based shadow that to a RAID-5 set with redundant controllers inF another cabinet.  In about 2 weeks, that other cabinet will be located( in another building.  I value my data...   	.../Edt -- m Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA   ---a  " 	Additionally, from my experience:  Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2Dys3kVTaqkJ%40eisner.encompasserve.org&output=gplain    D > - a raidset that was used exclusively for archive data logged softF > read errors every month or two.  However, when that raidset got usedH > for more active data, drives suddenly started dying.  One drive failedB > hard and a hot spare was rolled in.  While the raidset was being7 > rebuilt, another drive failed.  I lost the raidset.  t    < 	At a large client site, I saw the exact thing.  Raid5 kicksG 	out drive, autospare kicks in and literally 1 minute into the rebuild,*; 	"Poof" goes the autospare.  An extended downtime followed.r   ---   A 	Granted, there are large OEMs that sell "Enterprise" storage andoA 	much to their credit and advertisement, the FE as there the next,< 	day to replace that failed drive that was rebuilt overnight@ 	from the autospare.  The situation I describe above (failure of> 	autospare on rebuild) was not "Enterprise" storage nor was it? 	Digital/Compaq/HP storage.  But as I point out in the article,(9 	old drives (5+ years) are susceptible to sudden failure.s   				Robs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:49:03 -0500k' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>SY Subject: RE: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across  T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9D35@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Nic,  F >>> Consider again (because its already been discussed) that write I/O  in flight at time of failure.<<<  @ Imho, and I know storage HW folks will argue this, but the basicA principle is (or should be) that regardless of platform, while HWDF features like RAIDx can assist the host OS, the host OS must always be- ultimately responsible for data integrity.=20e  ? There are just to many evolving host cache and database featureeG improvements and enhancements happening on all platforms for storage HWlH controllers to keep up and ensure that what they do at the HW controller@ level will not somehow impact data integrity in the many failure scenario's that exist.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)- OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----2 From: Nic Clews [mailto:sendspamhere@127.0.0.1]=20 Sent: February 24, 2003 5:11 AMs To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComWF Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE:1 Volume set across RAID5 across RAID5 across RAID5H     Daniel Allen wrote:s >=20G >         Your comment caught my eye and led me to ask myself "how does 
 VMS (HSxx)/ >         volume shadowing and striping compareo  (performance/price/feature) withF >         current hardware commodity RAID offerings?". I haven't had a VMSvF >         cluster with HS disks in a LONG time so I'm not current with today'srA >         state of the art. If I understand your comment, you areB suggesting usingF >         HS based striping (RAID 0) and mirroring (RAID 1) to get big	 redundantMF >         volumes. What is the advantage of that config to a commodity RAID boxE >         setup for RAID 0/1?. I've been sort of under the impressione that modern6H >         HS controllers where basically cluster aware RAID controllers.  / Most of the points have already been made, i.e.t  B No controllers currently are capable of mirroring at the operatingD system data presentation layer, therefore eliminating the controllerG itself as the SPOF. The operating system than can create and control itcG mirror within the constraints of its environment, currently 200 miles It believe.  B There is another factor not considered here, because the operatingB system has control, so does the system manager, and ultimately the application.  E Consider again (because its already been discussed) that write I/O intG flight at time of failure. How does the operating system, and thereforemH the application know it has completed successfully? Does it care? How isF a mirrorset which has partially complete data on BOTH members recreateH itself best it can? (merge), on what criteria is the data selection madeD for the 'current' presentation, do you have the ability to literallyB move data from controller to controller, device to device, totally& transparently to the operating system?   Shadows and mirrors.  $ Time for a book of shadows methinks! --=208F Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:11:18 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set across  ) Message-ID: <3E59EFC6.4BE73A43@127.0.0.1>    Daniel Allen wrote:f > R >         Your comment caught my eye and led me to ask myself "how does VMS (HSxx)P >         volume shadowing and striping compare (performance/price/feature) withJ >         current hardware commodity RAID offerings?". I haven't had a VMSN >         cluster with HS disks in a LONG time so I'm not current with today'sR >         state of the art. If I understand your comment, you are suggesting usingP >         HS based striping (RAID 0) and mirroring (RAID 1) to get big redundantO >         volumes. What is the advantage of that config to a commodity RAID boxaQ >         setup for RAID 0/1?. I've been sort of under the impression that modernwH >         HS controllers where basically cluster aware RAID controllers.  / Most of the points have already been made, i.e.e  B No controllers currently are capable of mirroring at the operatingD system data presentation layer, therefore eliminating the controllerG itself as the SPOF. The operating system than can create and control itcG mirror within the constraints of its environment, currently 200 miles It believe.  B There is another factor not considered here, because the operatingB system has control, so does the system manager, and ultimately the application.  E Consider again (because its already been discussed) that write I/O inrG flight at time of failure. How does the operating system, and thereforeDH the application know it has completed successfully? Does it care? How isF a mirrorset which has partially complete data on BOTH members recreateH itself best it can? (merge), on what criteria is the data selection madeD for the 'current' presentation, do you have the ability to literallyB move data from controller to controller, device to device, totally& transparently to the operating system?   Shadows and mirrors.  $ Time for a book of shadows methinks! -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:21:29 GMT24 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyr8 Message-ID: <c3ej5vsq42ussn5qe4aire4p8afuovtji1@4ax.com>  @ On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:50 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, JF. Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Chris Hedley wrote:@ >> really need those drugs can no longer get them.  I'm inclined? >> to think that protecting someone from their own stupidity isT5 >> only viable if it doesn't impact on everyone else   >t >tL >Ever had to bring your almost dead mother to the hospital only to find thatM >what almost killed her was her medication "regime" which was totally screwedM >up ?o > L >Give an old person ample supply of drug A that lasts 3 months. Then 2 weeksI >later, patient sees doctor, doctor says Drug A isn't working so well andRO >prescribes drug B. Patient starts to take Drug B, but continues to take Drug AvL >for many months because the bottle isn't empty and the bottle still says toH >take it twice a day. Drug B conflicts with drug A and patient feels newI >symptom, goes to see doctor #2 who doesn't know about drug A still beingn> >ingested and prescribes drug C which makes things even worse.  7 Classic csae of acting on incomplete information by allo concerned. -A Each patient sticking to a single pharmacist and a single doctor,m< taking along a list of current medications for the doctor to: review if there is more than one (or the patient is memory? impaired in any way -- like over 40 ;^>), and writing down what < the doctor advises about each one each visit would avoid the	 problem. T5 The alternative seems to be a centralized medical and ; pharmaceutical database in which all patient information isL@ available to all doctors and pharmacists, and that smacks of big@ brother, but might help avoid deliberate abuse of the system and prescription drugs.   9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadab -- lF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com tB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:34:00 GMTV1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)gQ Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyn: Message-ID: <cGl6a.14121$O41.538687@twister.austin.rr.com>  ) J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) wrote:. : H : A virus similar to the Port 1433 virus could be written to attack the D : System/390 or the AS/400 or VMS just as easily--it depends on the K : administrator failing to put a password on the administrator account for iG : SQL Server.  Since (a) SQL Server is not a part of Windows, it is an >F : applications that runs under Windows, and (b) any administrator who G : doesn't at least put an effing password on the root account deserves  K : what happens.  Putting _any_ password, even "password" on the SQL Server eE : sa account should block that particular virus.  And the SQL Server nJ : installation procedure _does_ give an opportunity to rename the account I : and to put a password on it during the initial installation.  Further,  J : for SQL Server to do damage to anything except itself, it has to be run 0 : at a higher privilege level than is necessary. :   I Other applications may silently install Microsoft SQL Server or MicrosofteI Data Engine 2000, such as Microsoft Project and Microsoft Visio 2000, andc' thus be vulnerable to the Slammer worm:h  /    http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/mssqlm.shtmll5    F-Secure Computer Virus Information Pages: Slammer       "...The Problematic platforms     IG    Only machines running Microsoft SQL Server 2000 are infected by thisnI    worm. However, the SQL server is embedded inside MSDE 2000 - Microsoft-    Data Engine 2000.    oG    In addition, there are lot of other applications that might silentlySG    install Microsoft SQL Server or MSDE 2000. Examples of such softwaret    are:     B    Microsoft Biztalk Server5(    Microsoft Office XP Developer Edition    Microsoft Project%    Microsoft SharePoint Portal Server     Microsoft Visio 2000s    Microsoft Visual FoxPro    Microsoft Visual Studio.NET    Microsoft .NET Framework SDKa    Compaq Insight Manager9    Crystal Reports Enterprisen    Dell OpenManage(    HP Openview Internet Services Monitor!    McAfee Centralized Virus Admin,    McAfee Epolicy Orchestrator$    Trend Micro Damage Cleanup Server    Websense Reporter    Veritas Backup Exec    WebBoard Conferencing ServerN    etc.   %    For master list for MSDE apps, seei9    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/MSDEapps.asp     eG    Are you unsure if your machine is running MS SQL Server 2000 or MSDEcE    2000? These programs install an icon to System Tray. An icon whichCI    looks like a computer with a white circle and a green 'Play' button ons    it:    rF    If you don't trust the systray icon, an easy way to find out if youG    are running the SQL server is to locally check if your UDP port 1434>I    is open. To do this, click Start/Run and type "netstat -p udp -a 100".>9    Then investigate if the output contains line like "UDP F    YOURCOMPUTERNAME:ms-sql-m". If it does, you might be running MS SQLH    2000 and you should apply relevant patches. To exit this display, hit
    Ctrl-C..."s    e    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emaila   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:22:16 -0500d' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>fQ Subject: RE: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolytT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB2@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Brian,  H >>> The alternative seems to be a centralized medical and pharmaceuticalE database in which all patient information is available to all doctorsnE and pharmacists, and that smacks of big brother, but might help avoidi: deliberate abuse of the system and prescription drugs. <<<  G Yep, that is certainly the way that the future is heading. Many regionsuA are now implementing HER (electronic health records), but the big * challenge is security and confidentiality.  D Imho, while security is one thing when it comes to $'s, credit cardsG etc, security gets raised to a whole new level when it comes to matterso@ related to health and confidentiality. You are now talking aboutG information that could change peoples lives permanently if certain infoaE was leaked or got in the wrong hands or was not available when it wass	 required.o  F I suspect the final answer will be one that has some form of card thatB allows some basic release of information (contact type stuff) to aG doctor, but requires the patient to enter a password (or some bio thing	H like fingerprint) for the doctor (or any one else) to get at other types of information.   H However, due to many peoples distrust of current online security systems@ (with good reason I might add), this is going to be a long, slow process.   Regards.  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesn Voice: 613-592-46600 Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)u OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMa     -----Original Message-----> From: Brian Inglis [mailto:Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca]=20 Sent: February 24, 2003 1:21 AMp To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComnH Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly    F On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:10:50 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Chris Hedley wrote:F >> really need those drugs can no longer get them.  I'm inclined to=20H >> think that protecting someone from their own stupidity is only viable  ( >> if it doesn't impact on everyone else >I >uJ >Ever had to bring your almost dead mother to the hospital only to find=20E >that what almost killed her was her medication "regime" which was=20d >totally screwed up ?  >>I >Give an old person ample supply of drug A that lasts 3 months. Then 2=20>I >weeks later, patient sees doctor, doctor says Drug A isn't working so=20.B >well and prescribes drug B. Patient starts to take Drug B, but=20H >continues to take Drug A for many months because the bottle isn't empty  H >and the bottle still says to take it twice a day. Drug B conflicts with  H >drug A and patient feels new symptom, goes to see doctor #2 who doesn't  F >know about drug A still being ingested and prescribes drug C which=20 >makes things even worse.t  E Classic csae of acting on incomplete information by all concerned.=20gH Each patient sticking to a single pharmacist and a single doctor, takingH along a list of current medications for the doctor to review if there isH more than one (or the patient is memory impaired in any way -- like overE 40 ;^>), and writing down what the doctor advises about each one eachl! visit would avoid the problem.=20rD The alternative seems to be a centralized medical and pharmaceuticalE database in which all patient information is available to all doctorstE and pharmacists, and that smacks of big brother, but might help avoidc9 deliberate abuse of the system and prescription drugs.=20e  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadah --=20wF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to replyB abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com=20A abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com=20 D abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com=20- abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam traps    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:39:41 -0500e& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>K Subject: Re: Image restore of "old" saveset fails to restore VMS$COMMON.DIRn8 Message-ID: <u3mk5vsi2lqcos5fhv1ttlt167ejipknk8@4ax.com>  O On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:16:07 -0600, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  wrote:   >David M Smith wrote:u >> EQ >> It appears that you cannot restore, using current versions of BACKUP (at least.Q >> V7.3 and V7.3-1) a system disk image saveset created under some older versionseR >> of BACKUP (at least V6.2) and end up with an intact disk structure. I could notQ >> find in the archives a definitive response that cleared this up for me, and am*S >> hoping this post will provoke such as response, or a reference to the definitiver
 >> answer. >-E >Search Google archives for posts re: this from around this time lasta >year (more in April or so). > D >This is a known "feature". Some revisions to BACKUP "broke" certainI >behaviors when restoring savesets written by earlier versions of BACKUP.s  P Can you or someone help me find the thread(s) to which you are referring -- I'veN not found them. I get too many hits on the search strings I've tried to narrow- it down. Thanks for any more specific help...AI -------------------------------------------------------------------------eI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comyI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------p   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:27:47 GMTm' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> 1 Subject: Re: Just wondering how everyone is doingP, Message-ID: <3E5A4801.6050504@theblakes.com>   Patrick Young wrote:  A >The report from Sydney Australia is not good. Always hot. AlwaysoC >Humid. Always draining the water from my portable office A/C unit.  >e= >Major drought. Water restrictions. Can't even wash my truck.e > ? Maybe you could use the water from your A/C to wash your truck?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:23:12 +0000o' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy + Subject: Re: Madison, successor to McKinleyg. Message-ID: <3E5A5500.1000208@nospamn.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:1 > On the topic of Itanium and power consumption -. > C > http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030220S0049 - February 21, 2003  > C > San Jose -- Intel Corp. Thursday disclosed that a new Low VoltageoI > Itanium 2 processor, code-named Deerfield, will be introduced in 2H '03rD > to compete head-on with Sun Microsystems in the entry level 64-bit > server platforms.  > J > Mike Fister, senior vice president and general manager of the enterpriseF > platforms group, said Deerfield will operate with 62 watts, half theC > power consumption but the same performance level of the mid-gradeWF > existing Itanium 2 processors. The chip will have 1GHz frequency and > 1.5Megabytes of L3 cache. "r > C > The LV Itanium 2 was part of an expanded server processor roadmap0G > discussed at the Intel Developers Forum here. Lisa Graff, director of:F > enterprise processor marketing, said Deerfield is targeted at 64-bitI > servers in the $5,000 to $7,000 platform price range, an area which she H > conceded Sun Microsystems has greater than a 50% market share. "The LVJ > Itanium 2 increases competitiveness with Sun in the entry RISC processor > market," she added.  >    Hume  A The lowest power 64 bit SPARC CPU comes in at 18 watts a good fitc for blades.   8 Intel sure has a strange idea about what constitutes low7 power consumption if they think that Deerfield is a low-
 power CPU.  7 Nor does Deefield support the level of integration thatc: USIIIi, Hammer or the PowerPC970 support. All have on chip3 memory controllers and glueless SMP all of which on 4 Deerfield have to be added into the power budget and the package costs.   Regards1 Andrew Harrison & > [snip - see url for rest of article] > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant. > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660e > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)e! > OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM, >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net] " > Sent: February 20, 2003 11:09 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc- > Subject: Re: Madison, successor to McKinley- >  >  > @ > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message9 > news:cf15391e.0302201720.4880d3cf@posting.google.com...E > > >>From EE Times, http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20030210S0027 >>C >>"Intel's new Itanium 2 entry, code-named Madison, has one of the lD >>largest on-chip caches ever reported: roughly 6 Mbytes of Level 3 D >>cache, or twice the L3 size of the McKinley processor promoted at D >>ISSCC 2002. The 410 million-transistor Madison is manufactured in C >>130-nanometer CMOS and clocks at 1.5 GHz. It will outperform the aF >>McKinley processor - which is built with 180-nm geometries, has 221 H >>million transistors and clocks at 1 GHz - by 30 percent to 50 percent. >>A >>Despite the increased size and processing power, Madison meets aE >>Gelsinger's challenge to raise performance without increasing powerhB >>consumption: Power draw for McKinley and Madison, both aimed at % >>servers, is on the order of 130 W."  >  > I > Hmmm.  Sounds as if either Terry misstated the 160 W power drain or wasx5 > quoting a peak figure vs. a 'typical' figure above.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 10:38:00 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org1 Subject: Re: Need help passing text to executablee3 Message-ID: <UErfNE2Db1Z0@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  b In article <3E5520FB.5010602@vajhoej.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Mark Fisher wrote:K >> I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text file a5 >> and redefining sys$input using the typical format:> >>  ( >> $ define/user sys$input text_file.txt& >> $ define/user sys$command sys$input >> $ run program.exe > K >>     	Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed correctly aJ >> to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user to press F >> the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button. So the problem is how to develope the L >> correct escape sequences in a text file to pass. Remember, this is a raw G >> text file and cannot contain any DCL commands or symbols. Also, the FK >> executable program uses SMG for I/O, if this has anything to do with it.e > 1 > I do not belive that SMG$ can read from a file.i  C SMG$ can read from a file.  I don't believe that a virtual keyboarda@ mapped to a disk file can return function key press information, however.  7 I'd be thinking of solutions along the following lines:t  @ 1.  DEC Test Manager.  You can provide scripted input simulatingE an interactive user of an arbitrary application.  But DTM costs moneyf4 the last I knew (unless you have a DECset license?).  G 2.  A pseudo-terminal.  You programmatically supply input to a terminaloB device which can control an arbitrary appliction.  But you need to> write the program to provide the input to the pseudo-terminal.  : 3.  Nail up a real terminal loopback type connection.  You> $ COPY <filename> <output-terminal-device> and the applicationG reads from <input-terminal device>.  But you need to be either software < savvy or hardware savvy enough to build such a thingie.  And/ you need to put escape sequences into the file.s  B 4.  Modify the application to accept text-mode alternatives to theB function keys.  e.g. "PF4" alone on a line is accepted as an alias< for PF4.  But you need to be able to modify the application.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:20:01 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=A9?= releases	and  prodp/ Message-ID: <3E59B97C.C22663BD@vl.videotron.ca>e   Robert Deininger wrote:tK > If there was an ad campaign around stock exchanges, VMS and NSK would getM > roughly equal billing.    K So far, I have not seen that. When Compaq ran its ads on billboards, it wasgJ about "Non Stop Computing" which was essentially a Tandem-only ad from the  point of view outside of Compaq.  L When HP will pitch ads about stock exchanges, it will most likely talk about fault tolerant systems.   J Unfortunatly, VMS has allowed Unix to steal "cluster", and if HP starts toP claim it also has cluster solutiosn for stock exchanges, people will think Unix.  L There really does need to have marketing that mentions VMS by name. (and not- those silly names HP wants to tag on to VMS).o  - > And of course VMS will have differentiatinga7 > features when it runs on the same platforms as HP-UX.h  N What differentiating features ? Unix can now make the same marketing claims asN VMS. It is only once you look under the hood that you notice that VMS's engine' is real whereas the Unix ones are toys.i  L > campaigns will be built around brand image and "solutions".  The fad is to? > avoid advertisements that focus specifically on OS products. y  I VMS needs specific ads to revive it. Remember that VMS has suffered under J Palmer/Digital, it is been given a huge blow under Compaq. If HP is serousM about its sick athlete, it will give VMS a good boost so that the athlete cantM start runbning again, win sales and make HP lots of money. Otherwise VMS willn% keep on limping along ever so slowly.     G > VMS promotional efforts seem to be focused on potential (and current)i3 > customers who already mostly know what they want.s  K Which comes back to "existing customer base".  If this continues even afterIM that IA64 thing becomes commercially available, then the promise of IA64 willn@ have been false: VMS will continue to remain in total obscurity.  K > "solution" campaign gets a customer to the point of asking questions, VMS K > will be on the menu.  I think quite a bit of effort goes into making sure * > the VMS story is told in these meetings.  N The local Tumbuktuk HP reps have heard Carly state that VMS will be pitched atK the existing customer base. They see HP corporate not make any VMS specificoL ads. It will really take an edict from Carly to tell the trousp ALL OVER THEJ WORLD to start to actively sell VMS even when it competes against Windows,I Tandem or HP-UX since any sale to HP is better than a sale to Sun or IBM.a  K I have seen how local offices talk about VMS in past tense, don't bother to-J pitch VMS. I have heard about how other local office send Windows leaflets8 when a customer asks for VMS leaflets. The list goes on.  I I have great respect for what Sue is doing. But Sue cannot be expected to K solve all of VMS' problems worldwide. She really needs to get Carly to make>K very clear and very public statements that will force local offices to head> the new corporate edicts.a  J No matter what Sue does, as long as local offices have the impression thatJ carly wants all new sales to go to HP-UX or Windows, they will follow whatJ they think Carly wants and disregard what some unknown in VMS group says.     L > Would a VMS-specific ad campaign aimed at the great unwashed masses of the > IT world have much impact? w  F It would have to be a medium-long term, sustained VMS presence in HP'sF marketing. And this comes back to the prophetic lack of REAL long termL commitment by HP. I don't care about commitment not to kill VMS for at leastN 2-3 years. I want to see commitment to market and grow VMS. And one way to putM the mobney when HP pretends its mouth is, is to have a sustained VMS presence M in HP's advertising. DOesn't mean running ads every 15 minutes for a week, it ) means running one ad a week for 52 weeks.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:14:20 +0000A' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retaia, Message-ID: <3E5A1AAC.50305@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:35:01 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  > > >>If you want another nail to the GS160 perfromance lie coffin= >>then look no further than your own TPC-C benchmark results.  >>> >>A GS140 with 8 x 700 MHz CPU's posted a result of 42,437 TPM? >>A GS160 with 16 x 731 MHz CPU's posted a result of 55,221 TPMs >>F >>It doesn't take a genius to work out that this isn't a demonstration* >>that the NUMA architecture is effective. >> >  > G > If my applications were TPC-C benchmarks, I might actually care aboutx$ > that.  Since they're not, I don't. >     1 So the ground has moved yet again. Now you simplye3 want to rule out anything that doesn't interest you  personally.i  * You really need to give up and appologise.  4 But if you are now ruling out any transactional DBMS4 type application, the advice of your engineers, this5 cuts a big chunk of the server market away from undera the GS's feet.  4 Are you going to get your Marketing people to update6 the web sites and collateral to rule out transactional systems ???i   regardse Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:09:23 +0000-' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyeY Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai . Message-ID: <3E5A1983.7040501@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:07:18 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancym0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >  > B >>>Ha!  I asked you to provide evidence for two years for all yourE >>>constant bilge about there being loads of customers with GS160/320IC >>>that were slower than their GS140.  For TWO YEARS you constantlynG >>>spewed crap that it was all over the news group.  I even provided mylB >>>search criteria and the results in order to get some additionalD >>>information from you to back up your claim.  And when you finallyG >>>relent and provide something, it's only 1 or 2 data points.  And forRG >>>the 2nd one, I, once again, have to do all the work.  The irony, andsG >>>the reason I reject this argument from you, is that you consistentlysE >>>reject such claims from us of a similar nature (re. customers withe< >>>VMSclusters who get perfect uptime, and great application >>>compatibility). >>>a >>9 >>No for two years I suggested that you had a little lookg6 >>at the archives for this newsgroup and for two years
 >>you didn't.p >  > @ > I did look at the archives, and didn't find anything worthy ofE > discussion, and certainly nothing to support your claims.  And you,eF > yourself, have only provided ONE note that comes close to supporting > your claims. >  >   : But as we now all know this is untrue, there were articles; that were worthy of discussion which also proved to be easy. to find.  B I have now provided 5 references. Two news articles from customers; and 3 benchmarks published by Compaq. There are more if your
 want them.  @ But I see no point in your pursuing this any further because one= of the customer posts states that the poster was told by yourR; own engineers that there were know NUMA performance issues.a  9 Either you knew this and were simply attempting hide thish5 information or you didn't do due dilligence with yourd+ own engineers before posting to this group.o   Which one is it ??  : >>Sadly as you know now if you had tried a bit harder then8 >>you would have found the result you were hoping wasn't >>there. >  > E > I tried again with your suggested search, and found 353 articles of/> > which ONE (the same one mentioned above) that comes close to > supporting your claims.  >    Oh come on.s  > I have provided you with 2 direct customer posts, one of which@ states that there are known NUMA performance issues. 3 benchmark? results (Kingston, Pre OPS TPC-C and OPS TPC-C) and I have alsoa> offered to give you the name of a major customer in the UK who2 has bought another platform because if this issue.  D In the circumstances you have only ONE option which is to appologiseC for the last 2 years worth of postings on this subject and get backd to your day job.  H > But, as your response shows, you still expect everyone else to do mostG > all the work to "prove" your fud.  I believe I made a simple request:nD > If you make a statement as a generalization, please provide enoughC > evidence to support your claims.  Your response, consistently, isoA > "it's in the google archives, find it yourself" (paraphrasing).e >   9 Look I repeatedly told you that the posts were there, you 8 repeatedly told me that they wern't because you couldn't4 find them. I have now supplied you with 2 posts that8 were easy to find so who is the dummy ?? They were right under your nose.   > 6 >>Ironically you also didn't do any of the work if you2 >>remember I was the person you pointed you to the2 >>article, you just waffled on about there being a3 >>lot of GS160 articles and how you hadn't searched> >>them all.a >  > G > Again, it's your statement, thus *your* responsibility to support it.u >   5 No you claimed that you had looked for the referencesb3 you either didn't or you didn't do a good job. Livel  with it you have been found out.  E > Very informative article.  I think someone in did publish in here aeG > document from engineering that explains numa performance details.  So 0 > there was no attempt to hide this information. > D > However, if you really read this article, you'd see that it, also,G > does not provide enough info to prove your generalization.  What thissA > note states about the performance problems are in relation to axH > specific application with specific characteristics (though it providesE > no details what those characteristics are).  I still see no smoking : > gun that the GS160 is slower than the GS140 - a sweeping) > generalization that your commonly make.C >    The article says  G "We were running with 8 CPU GS140s on what today are rather slow CPUs. 0A Only a single application was run on the units consisting of manyWH simultaneous processes communicating extensively through global memory. H   Think of the application as a medium sized transaction box.   We triedG increasing the CPU count, but diminishing returns made 8 CPUs appear toh be a good place to stop."   > This sounds very very like a DBMS since its how Oracle etc are architected.  A "At Nashua we explained our application in detail to engineering. H Engineering suggested the GS NUMA architecture.  However, they were veryG candid about NUMA performance problems.  Based on their experience withoD other customers with similar applications, engineering advised us to9 consider reorganizing our application to deal with NUMA."W  B So your engineers are basically saying that any transactional DBMS, type application will have problems on a GS.  4 Come on stop the BS this is a huge category of apps.  ? As I said earlier your only course of action at this point thatn= will help your already damaged credibility is a full appologye= followed by silence on this subject on your part. Nothing youn* have posted subsequently has changed this.   Regards  Andrew Harrisonr   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:27:14 +0530 4 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com>Y Subject: OT: Good to Great [was Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Micro	soft Monopoly oI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C260F33A90@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>n   HI all,tG Jim Collins (of Stanford U) has written this book called Good to Great.HK Apparently, he classifies great companies as having been established beforepK 50s and have a growth of 1.5 times that of the industry in the first 15 yrsp> & 3 times that of the industry ave for the next fifteen years.  J Surprisingly, only 11 companies qualified. Some of them are Philip Morris,I Circuit City, CHase Manhattan. There is one computer conpany as well, ( IeI forgot the name). Almost all of the companies are relatively low-profile.dJ These companies have such a mature organizational culture, that they don'tK need good leaders (read CEOs). Their processes produce good leaders who can  sustain the company.   IT is a good read.  	 Cheers...37 +-----------------------------------------------------+>0 	KEANE INDIA LIMITED                            0 	E9 - E12, SDF                                  1 	NEPZ, NOIDA 201 305                             n0 	U.P, INDIA                                     6                                                       0 	e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.com          0 	phone: +91-120-2568210(371)                    5       Men are from MACs, Women are from VMS           7 +-----------------------------------------------------+n   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 2003 18:06:43 GMT- From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@nospam.rcn.com>s Subject: OT: Re: URL changeo= Message-ID: <Xns932C85626939kenrbnsnrbnsncom@199.184.165.241>t  0 "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com> wrote in & news:v5kn76jkk2dfd@news.supernews.com:   > java is easy > 	 > ergo...h  ' Some problems with the above statement.b  C Number 1: You're using Javascript not Java (they are two different e
 languages)  F Number 2: You're method doesn't work if someone has Javascript turned  off.  G Both methods I mentioned earlier (putting the redirect in the META tag fE or using PHP) don't depend of Javascript being turned on and each is rF easier to implement. Of course for PHP your server has to support PHP  and it has to be installed...o   Keno   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:59:33 GMTt) From: P.Lj <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se>.! Subject: Porting Library on 7.3-1e8 Message-ID: <alck5vcdslv21ed6qgf0t25gn8qg46n94l@4ax.com>   Hi,.  F I'm not getting any LIBGLIB.EXE when building the "jackets" or PortingB Library on a VMS 7.3-1 system. The linker does not complain and no libglib.exe is produced.   hints ?b   /P.Lja   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:28:05 -0000e* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>% Subject: Re: Porting Library on 7.3-1r+ Message-ID: <b3ddm6$ps2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>,  6 "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se> wrote in message2 news:alck5vcdslv21ed6qgf0t25gn8qg46n94l@4ax.com...  H > I'm not getting any LIBGLIB.EXE when building the "jackets" or PortingD > Library on a VMS 7.3-1 system. The linker does not complain and no > libglib.exe is produced.   That would be part of GTK.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:33:26 GMTr+ From: "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se> % Subject: Re: Porting Library on 7.3-1.4 Message-ID: <aXq6a.12096$FF4.632627@newsb.telia.net>   P.Lj wrote:  > Hi,e > H > I'm not getting any LIBGLIB.EXE when building the "jackets" or PortingD > Library on a VMS 7.3-1 system. The linker does not complain and no > libglib.exe is produced. > 	 > hints ?i >  > /P.Ljl >   G Aouch, found it.. I had Mozilla started... so LIBGLIB System Logical...u1 got a lot of new LIBGLIB.SO in Mozilla directory.h     /P.Ljl   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:11:04 +0100 (MET)  From: system@msia02.msi.se) Subject: Problem using DELETE in VMS-mail2* Message-ID: <03022415110399@msia02.msi.se>     OpenVMS V7.2-1   n   VMS721_MAIL V1.0  Patch   K I have a problem regarding VMS-MAIL. If I try to delete more than about 230 3 e-mail at a time I get the following error message:s  
 MAIL> d 1-236k   MAIL>  Exity. Reclaiming deleted file space.  Please wait...6 Error activating image DKA0:[SYS0.][SYSLIB]NCSSHR.EXE;, Assign channel system service request failed Message number 00000000h3 Error opening SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL.MAI as inpute, Assign channel system service request failed No I/O channel available7 Error deleting SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL_1F02_SEND.TMP;*c, Assign channel system service request failed No I/O channel available7 Error deleting SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL_1F02_EDIT.TMP;*r, Assign channel system service request failed No I/O channel available  , Anybody else seen this. Thankfull for hints.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:12:29 +0000h( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Problem using DELETE in VMS-mailf) Message-ID: <3E5A365D.66EAC7B0@127.0.0.1>a   system@msia02.msi.se wrote:s >  >   OpenVMS V7.2-1 >   VMS721_MAIL V1.0  PatchC > M > I have a problem regarding VMS-MAIL. If I try to delete more than about 230i5 > e-mail at a time I get the following error message:  >  > MAIL> d 1-236o > 
 > MAIL>  Exitb0 > Reclaiming deleted file space.  Please wait...8 > Error activating image DKA0:[SYS0.][SYSLIB]NCSSHR.EXE;. > Assign channel system service request failed > Message number 00000000.5 > Error opening SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL.MAI as input-. > Assign channel system service request failed > No I/O channel available9 > Error deleting SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL_1F02_SEND.TMP;* . > Assign channel system service request failed > No I/O channel available9 > Error deleting SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]MAIL_1F02_EDIT.TMP;*a. > Assign channel system service request failed > No I/O channel available > . > Anybody else seen this. Thankfull for hints.  ) Check in SYSGEN the value for CHANNELCNT.i  G Check FILLM in the UAF quota, or perhaps PQL_MFILLM. If either of theseQ7 exceed CHANNELCNT, then reduce them to CHANNELCNT - 15.   H I'm not saying this is the reason you're seeing it, but similar symptomsH can be caused by this. (You can also increase CHANNELCNT, but there is a9 *slight* process header overhead, and you need a reboot).w   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences. nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:27:23 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u- Subject: Re: Problem using DELETE in VMS-mailh; Message-ID: <01KSTQNKLKLE9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   M > I have a problem regarding VMS-MAIL. If I try to delete more than about 230 5 > e-mail at a time I get the following error message:r >  > MAIL> d 1-236r > 
 > MAIL>  Exitn  . > Anybody else seen this. Thankfull for hints.  I Haven't seen it.  I routinely delete many more messages than this---with f' DELETE/ALL.  What does that do for you?b   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:58:01 -00000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>QK Subject: Problems connecting to PATHWORKS share ofter upgrade from V5 to V6oE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1FB@tahiti.tinuk.com>l  H While I'm trawling through the PATHWORKS documents, someone might have a quick pointer or ten for this;  F Upgrade from VMS 7.1 to VMS 7.3 and upgrade from PWRK V5 to PWRK V6 on Alpha.  H Users had a share which mapped to their 'e' drive, which previous to the: upgrade they could connect to, now it asks for a password.  3 Any hints, tips, clues or answers appreciated...=20y   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200s [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131a
 www.torex.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:03:01 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1: Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKKELJCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Peter Langstoeger wrotes:e   >>>eK I remember having lots of hangs at my last test some years ago by too smallT quotas.r <<<n   Here are the quotas I will use:o   	CBS2$ show process/quotap  H 	19-FEB-2003 11:51:52.81   User: SYSTEM           Process ID:   2020030FH 	                          Node: CBS2             Process name: "SYSTEM"   	Process Quotas: 	 Account name: SYSTEMG 	 CPU limit:                      Infinite  Direct I/O limit:       400eG 	 Buffered I/O byte count quota:    204608  Buffered I/O limit:     400iG 	 Timer queue entry quota:            1000  Open file quota:        600 G 	 Paging file quota:               4188096  Subprocess quota:        40aG 	 Default page fault cluster:           64  AST quota:              798tG 	 Enqueue quota:                      2047  Shared file limit:        0 G 	 Max detached processes:                0  Max active jobs:          0    	CBS2$ show working_setM  F 	  Working Set (pagelets)  /Limit=10240  /Quota=16384  /Extent=2097152L 	  Adjustment enabled      Authorized Quota=16384  Authorized Extent=2097152  B 	  Working Set (8Kb pages) /Limit=640  /Quota=1024  /Extent=131072J 	                          Authorized Quota=1024  Authorized Extent=131072   Nigel did wrotea   >>>t/ Do you have all the relevant patches installed?o <<<   < Yes I do. I do not see any problem with the SYS-V0200 patch.  C What the difference (specialy for the quotas), when I do run a SHOWu PROCESS7CONT in anJ other window and if I do not? If I do, the $java -version will run withoutJ hang! Any action, which will show the used channels will release a hangingI $java -version. It looks like a timing problem. Anybody with a good idea?w   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:41:37 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>. Subject: REMINDER: OpenVMS Itanium Boot Survey> Message-ID: <5qo6a.48819$9i7.2725440@twister.southeast.rr.com>  L I extended the survey for another week.  Some people thought one week wasn't enough time.  J Make your voice heard on HP's boot of OpenVMS on Itanium, get a free issueJ of Shannon knows HPC (The Sun Also Rises...or Does It? Sun Microsystems inL the Shade, vol. 10 number 7), in addition, I will randonly pick three people: to win an OpenVMS.org coffee mug or t-shirt, their choice.  9 http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Survey_Introduction    -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 06:15:48 -0800$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)% Subject: Samba Missing stropts.h filec= Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0302240615.61207ff2@posting.google.com>   ; When building samba 2.2.7 with @build.com I get this error:a  = Cannot find file <stropts.h> specified in #include directive.a' at line number 330 in file INCLUDES.H;2i  F Any direction is appreciated.  I have tried to find the answer myself.?  Please forgive me if this is documented.  I could not find it.o  
 Thank you.  
 OpenVMS 7.2-1m   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 2003 08:11:29 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)l4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box0 Message-ID: <b3ck3h$nls$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  U In article <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:t/ >I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more.w >hC >I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day allv( >three usernames I use no longer worked.  J Did you get any error messages? Do you have a console or can you connect a8 console in order to the messages once you try to log in?  E >Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I amm* >thinking I have been hacked by an expert.  N Not necessarily. What about exceeded quotas? Or do you use breakin-dectection?  < >Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, but9 >suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again.u  4 This requires an analysis of what actually happened.  ? >It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boott >from a CD goes like this: >a9 >Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspectione6 >Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection >Grab the Apache logs toom >Operator.log also >A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenevera >w> >Then restore from last trusted backup, change passwwords etc, >BEFORE I put the cables back.  M Backup the whole system disk. You never know which file might give you a cluehG once you start the analysis. In addition have a look at the users' home,M directories. Are there any FTP-logs, POP3-logs or the like? What date has the D LOGIN.COM? Anything else modified on any disk since your last login?  ( Finally, please let us know the outcome.   Regards,    Christoph GartmannS  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +------------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html -------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 03 16:43:20 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <SnaSQZPZqEYp@elias.decus.ch>i  y In article <wJe6a.238296$Ec4.245801@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:eW > In article <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: 0 >>I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more. >>D >>I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day all) >>three usernames I use no longer worked.  >>F >>Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am+ >>thinking I have been hacked by an expert.i >>C >>OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at ao/ >>non-existant address, so one guess is that its@ >>was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware. >>= >>Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, but : >>suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again. > 
 > Hi Paul, > M > Please see the FAQ for an alternative method for getting on the system, onenE > that does not involve UAFALTERNATE (the FAQ elsewhere mentions that-- > UAFALTERNATE may not always work properly).2 > O > The method involves running sys$system:startup.com - I've used it a few timesoL > to get to the "$" prompt, and I find it a little easier than UAFALTERNATE. >-  A Thanks for the pointer. I really should have remembered that one.-  E In the cold light of day I also realise that I originally created thee- alternate UAF. Doh! Hoisted by my own petard!v   > The FAQ URL is:s > 7 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.htmlt > 4 > and the appropriate section is 5.5, on "page" 5-5. >  > Good luck! >  > <snip>     -- h
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 03 16:58:41 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <HoCxJksGN0Gq@elias.decus.ch>e  M In article <03022319544722@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:j >>>>3 >>>> I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more.5 >>>> 0G >>>> I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day all , >>>> three usernames I use no longer worked. >>>> oI >>>> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I amr. >>>> thinking I have been hacked by an expert. >>>> cF >>>> OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at a2 >>>> non-existant address, so one guess is that itC >>>> was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware.a >>>> >  > What version VMS?p   V7.3-1   > What brand/version TCPIP?i  A V5.3 with one or two ECOs. IIRC up to date just before Christmas.p    > What kind of ROUTER?  Version?   Zyxel  Prestige 642R-13s* ZyNOS F/W Version: V2.50(AL.2) | 8/30/2001, ADSL Chipset Vendor: Alcatel, Version  2.5.7  ; The router log contains a couple of the following messages,i1 on Thursday afternoon and early Saturday morning.a  * -WARN  SNMP TRAP 4: authentication failure  9 However, I changed all the SNMP settings from <public> to$> something else before ever connecting it to the outside world.  - > Is the Apache account installed with Privs?e >    No.h   >>>> t@ >>>> Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, but= >>>> suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again.  >>>> RC >>>> It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boots >>>> from a CD goes like this: >>>> l= >>>> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspectiono: >>>> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection >>>> Grab the Apache logs too  >>>> Operator.log also >>>> A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenevers >>>> uB >>>> Then restore from last trusted backup, change passwwords etc," >>>> BEFORE I put the cables back. >>>> 1% >>>> Have I forgotten anything there?o >>>> o > + > Have you kept up with all ECO patch kits?e >r  + Reasonably up to date, but I need to check.   sP > Review your account settings.  I.E., SYSTEM, FIELD, and others that you do notL > use or use infrequently.  Either disuser (except SYSTEM) these accounts orR > change them daily by using a RANDOM generator to build a 32-character password. > > I use this method for accounts that are BATCHed or DETACHed. >,  N I'm pretty sure that SYSTEM is the only one like that, though I need to check.   -- e
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:57:01 -0800s# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>.4 Subject: RE: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICELPGKAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message-----n1 >From: Paul Sture [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch] ( >Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:59 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS boxl >- >n3 >In article <03022319544722@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, M >brandon@dalsemi.com writes: >>>>>p4 >>>>> I cannot log onto my home VMS system any more. >>>>> H >>>>> I logged in this morning with no problem, but later in the day all- >>>>> three usernames I use no longer worked.a >>>>> J >>>>> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am/ >>>>> thinking I have been hacked by an expert.: >>>>> G >>>>> OK, I'm on the big bad Internet, but my router points telnet at ao3 >>>>> non-existant address, so one guess is that ityD >>>>> was done via Apache or some other route of which I am unaware. >>>>>c >> i >> What version VMS? >l >V7.3-1  >  >> What brand/version TCPIP? > B >V5.3 with one or two ECOs. IIRC up to date just before Christmas. >j! >> What kind of ROUTER?  Version?e >u >Zyxel  Prestige 642R-13+ >ZyNOS F/W Version: V2.50(AL.2) | 8/30/2001c- >ADSL Chipset Vendor: Alcatel, Version  2.5.7Q >n< >The router log contains a couple of the following messages,2 >on Thursday afternoon and early Saturday morning. >r+ >-WARN  SNMP TRAP 4: authentication failuren > : >However, I changed all the SNMP settings from <public> to? >something else before ever connecting it to the outside world.p >r. >> Is the Apache account installed with Privs? >> i >  >No. >e >>>>> A >>>>> Obviously the best course is to revert to backups here, buta> >>>>> suggestions please to make sure it doesn't happen again. >>>>> D >>>>> It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I boot >>>>> from a CD goes like this:t >>>>> > >>>>> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection; >>>>> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection  >>>>> Grab the Apache logs too >>>>> Operator.log alsoo >>>>> A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenever >>>>> C >>>>> Then restore from last trusted backup, change passwwords etc, # >>>>> BEFORE I put the cables back., >>>>> & >>>>> Have I forgotten anything there? >>>>>  >> g, >> Have you kept up with all ECO patch kits? >> >r, >Reasonably up to date, but I need to check. > B >> Review your account settings.  I.E., SYSTEM, FIELD, and others  >that you do notB >> use or use infrequently.  Either disuser (except SYSTEM) these  >accounts or< >> change them daily by using a RANDOM generator to build a  >32-character password. ? >> I use this method for accounts that are BATCHed or DETACHed.   J One thing that I have found common to most systems is the ability to limit login attempts per unit time.n   >> >rA >I'm pretty sure that SYSTEM is the only one like that, though I a >need to check.a >  >--  >Paul Stureh >t >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003i >c ---d& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 03 17:05:46 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <DOqKNVn8CfZk@elias.decus.ch>g  c In article <R0qH$EKRkJSV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:aW > In article <VFtCfLqG4eLL@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:a > G >> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I ame, >> thinking I have been hacked by an expert. > & > It could also be some other problem. >o  ; Several possibilities have come to mind by the expedient of $ giving the problem a rest overnight.    dA >> It's firmly switched off for now, but my checklist once I booth >> from a CD goes like this: >> h; >> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspectiona8 >> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection >> Grab the Apache logs tool >> Operator.log also >> A DIR/MOD/SINCE=whenevert > G > I would suggest backing up the whole system disk to have it availablem > for diagnosis.   A good suggestion. -- o
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 03 17:16:52 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <7AQdVvsS1kQK@elias.decus.ch>u  b In article <3E5979FB.6E35A3E9@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Paul Sture wrote:tG >> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am , >> thinking I have been hacked by an expert. >  > read the faq :-) >r3 But I can't get into the system it's on :-) :-) :-).    rJ > Boot into sysboot, SET/STARTUP OPA0: instead of sys$system:startup.com   > L > Isn't it funny how one knows how these things work on normal days, but the7 > very minute you need the stuff, you forget about it !t  6 Worse, it's an example of not following my own advice.   > Q > Do you have a SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAFALT.DAT file ? If not, VMS should let anyone in.: >  > M > Yu do NOT want to delete SYSUAF.DAT, you really want to see if anything wase > changed in it. >i True.t  s; >> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection 8 >> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspection >> Grab the Apache logs toou >> Operator.log also >  > P > FTP logs. If someone dumped a new SYSUAF.DAT on top of your exsiting one, that > would explain it.i >o Well caught.  aP > Do you have a SYSLOG server that records inbound calls ? I have John Vottero'sL > SYSLOGF deamon running and I record all attempts to connect to my machine.  I I have it installed, but I've never seen much of use in the logs. Another  one to look at thanks.   -- t
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:18:16 -0800w# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>V4 Subject: RE: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEMAGKAA.tom@kednos.com>v   >-----Original Message-----e1 >From: Paul Sture [mailto:p_sture@elias.decus.ch]r( >Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:17 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com5 >Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box  >g > 9 >In article <3E5979FB.6E35A3E9@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei * ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >> Paul Sture wrote:H >>> Setting UAFALTERANATE and rebooting still doesn't get me in, so I am- >>> thinking I have been hacked by an expert.a >> >> read the faq :-)  >>4 >But I can't get into the system it's on :-) :-) :-) >m >nI >> Boot into sysboot, SET/STARTUP OPA0: instead of sys$system:startup.comh >>? >> Isn't it funny how one knows how these things work on normalo >days, but the8 >> very minute you need the stuff, you forget about it ! >n7 >Worse, it's an example of not following my own advice.w >  >>C >> Do you have a SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAFALT.DAT file ? If not, VMS shouldd >let anyone in.t >> >>A >> Yu do NOT want to delete SYSUAF.DAT, you really want to see ifw
 >anything wass >> changed in it.- >> >True. >-< >>> Grab the accounting and audit files for later inspection9 >>> Grab my other monitoring files for similar inspectiont >>> Grab the Apache logs too >>> Operator.log alsoa >> >>> >> FTP logs. If someone dumped a new SYSUAF.DAT on top of your >exsiting one, that1 >> would explain it.  J This could presumably only happen if someone actually succeeded in loggingG in via ftp, again if you limit login attempts then this would make thish highlyB unlikely. I use Hunter's hgftp which logs all attempts to connect. >>
 >Well caught.s >sB >> Do you have a SYSLOG server that records inbound calls ? I have >John Vottero's2A >> SYSLOGF deamon running and I record all attempts to connect toa >my machine. >>J >I have it installed, but I've never seen much of use in the logs. Another >one to look at thanks.i >  >--l >Paul Sturex >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).oA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003n >  ---v& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:01:32 GMTn# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS boxH Message-ID: <Mds6a.69541$Zr%.52286@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:HoCxJksGN0Gq@elias.decus.ch...g >a" > > What kind of ROUTER?  Version? >  > Zyxel  Prestige 642R-13s, > ZyNOS F/W Version: V2.50(AL.2) | 8/30/2001. > ADSL Chipset Vendor: Alcatel, Version  2.5.7 > = > The router log contains a couple of the following messages,s3 > on Thursday afternoon and early Saturday morning.  > , > -WARN  SNMP TRAP 4: authentication failure >e; > However, I changed all the SNMP settings from <public> tof@ > something else before ever connecting it to the outside world.    D No idea whether this is applicable or not...IIRC about two years agoD there were serious problems with a particular version of the Alcatel@ ADSL chipset with respect to security. Your router seems to fall within the problem period.   For an example seeF http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=alcatel+%2Badsl+%2Bsecurity+%2BprobleF m&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&selm=9b14no%2443u%2 41%40yarrow.open.ac.uk&rnum=1o  6 google newsgroups for alcatel +adsl +security +problem   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:46:34 -0500u* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> Subject: SYS$ACM documentation9 Message-ID: <Y3s6a.34965$or1.351037@wagner.videotron.net>e   Hi  D Does anyone know where I can find documentation for SYS$ACM, online?L Larry Kilgallen suggested this service be used to authenticate users. I needG to write an app that allows users to change their password, via an HTMLd
 interface.  J On the HP site for OpenVMS documentation, a search returns "The web serverK specified in your URL could not be contacted.  Please check your URL or trya your request again. "   ( and I cannot find an index to the books.   Thanks!a   -- Syltrems OpenVMS 7.3-1 - Oracle 8.1.6.0  B http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS site in french language)   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 11:33:30 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n" Subject: Re: SYS$ACM documentation3 Message-ID: <LRYjvtaq81qA@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  f In article <Y3s6a.34965$or1.351037@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes:  F > Does anyone know where I can find documentation for SYS$ACM, online?  A It should be on the V7.3-1 documentation CD that came in the kit.o  I > to write an app that allows users to change their password, via an HTMLe > interface.  J Presumably you can't get very far with that unless you have a copy of VMS,$ and thus the documentation CDROM :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:12:32 -0500w* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: SYS$ACM documentation9 Message-ID: <xgt6a.34980$or1.363062@wagner.videotron.net>f   Hi  ( Problem is, I'm not at work right now...   I think I've found it:@ http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/731FINAL/4527/4527pro_002.html     -- Syltremo OpenVMS 7.2-1 - Oracle 8.1.6.0  B http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS site in french language)J "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> a crit dans le message de news:( LRYjvtaq81qA@eisner.encompasserve.org...E > In article <Y3s6a.34965$or1.351037@wagner.videotron.net>, "Syltrem"s" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> writes: >hH > > Does anyone know where I can find documentation for SYS$ACM, online? >'C > It should be on the V7.3-1 documentation CD that came in the kit.o >IK > > to write an app that allows users to change their password, via an HTML  > > interface. > L > Presumably you can't get very far with that unless you have a copy of VMS,& > and thus the documentation CDROM :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 02:58:00 -0800' From: nikki_wire@yahoo.com (nikki_wire)r* Subject: technical question re. vms editor= Message-ID: <60fdd9c9.0302240258.783b0618@posting.google.com>    Hi,   C Do any of you guys know the quickest way to remove all comments (COh@ records) from a VMS file except for the header - eg the first 20 lines?  
 Thanks a lot!r   Nikkib   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 06:20:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e. Subject: Re: technical question re. vms editor3 Message-ID: <V2kpSnl9D3VN@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  g In article <60fdd9c9.0302240258.783b0618@posting.google.com>, nikki_wire@yahoo.com (nikki_wire) writes:a  E > Do any of you guys know the quickest way to remove all comments (CO B > records) from a VMS file except for the header - eg the first 20 > lines?  @ Presuming that by "CO record" you mean a record that starts with the characters "CO",   $ TECO file.exts j<.u00a-^^C"n0;'1a-^^O"n0;'n $;>I q0j<ns CO$;0kk2r>ex$$  I Where instances of "$" in lines after the first are the Escape character.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:29:30 +0100 (MET)S9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p. Subject: Re: technical question re. vms editor; Message-ID: <01KSTKETA8EA9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>g   > $ TECO file.extn > j<.u00a-^^C"n0;'1a-^^O"n0;'n > $;>t > q0j<nn > CO$;0kk2r>ex$$  F Normally, I like the "understandable" language of VMS.  For unix doodsF who think that kryptic kommands are kool, I will save this one for my 	 archives.e  A No if I could just get my hands on Elliot's LAWNMOWER$STARTU.P...d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:55:37 +1100w1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSn, Message-ID: <3E59DE09.7060902@tg.nsw.gov.au>   JF Mezei wrote:a > Robert Deininger wrote:g > < >>But it doesn't matter.  You'd have bitched no matter what. >  > I > If they simply renamed it to VMS and hp-VMS, I would not bitch. I bitchmJ > because they are working so damn hard to find complex names that confuse" > people and reflect current fads. > 1 Agreed and we are besotted by these current fads.c  P > There is a big difference between deciding what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME") returns,@ > and what you name the operating system for marketing purposes. > D Hey, are you assuming that they are now going to market the product?  L > The way Sue made it sound, the new name is to become the official name forO > VMS, that is used is whatever promotional materials. *IF* that is the case, IoP > stand by my statement that they are making the very same mistake as Palmer did! > when he tagged the stupid Open.d > 8 Don't blame our beloved Sue, she was just the messenger.  M > In the early 1990s, "open" was the then buzzword. They tagged this onto VMSgI > with disastrous proportion and by the time they were done with the namet' > change, the "open" fad had long gone.  > O > Now, they feel the need to embrace the stupid "industry standard" fad. At the ; > very least they could drop the dead "open" from the name.a  E Yep, the "current fad" syndrome again.  AFAIK, the latest meaning of yF "attrition" got into dictionaries because of its "fad" usage, and I'm F just waiting for the latest re-definitions of "legacy" and "heritage".  G A while ago, I had correspondence with Merriam Webster regarding their eG latest re-definition of "vector".  It's there, but possibly by mistake ID as they admitted in that there was only one citation for this usage.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise-B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.m  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid 9A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the n= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with  C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usest> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:42:34 -0500f* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSo2 Message-ID: <nw-dnRdCG8pCI8SjXTWcpw@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:vod6a.59912$Zr%.21966@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...   ...s   > Sue wrote:B > "Everyone I know would love to do a VMS advertisment and we haveF > gotten some excellent suggestions from the newsgroup and enginneringF > and our customers.  But if the company ***does not allow advertisingH > for OS's *** we can not, we work for HP, and ***that is their rule***.# > ***It is not an option period.***d >r > Shit. If this is truer  L Is there *any* reason to believe it isn't, after so many years (save for oneL with Pfeiffer in charge) of the same externally-visible behavior under three  successive corporate identities?  /  then HP might as well lay all you guys off now < > because sooner or later you will be laid off if there's no > advertising.  K Laying them all off now would send a signal to the world that even the most-C optimistic here could not ignore.  Better to keep them on until the<L continuing revenue no longer justifies their presence (not that what they'llJ be *doing* at the end will generate any additional revenue, but their mere@ visible presence will keep revenue from evaporating so quickly).   ...     Not advertisingH > accelerates the decline in the customer base, the decline/reduction inG > revenues, the decline/reduction in profits, which affect the multipletD > the market assigns to my HP stock...and yours too. Where's a Texas( > class-action lawyer when you need one?  G If the Alphacide didn't generate a class-action suit, neglecting VMS isr hardly likely to.s  J In the nearly two years since it occurred, subsequent events have made theL circumstances surrounding the Alphacide pretty clear, and they don't reflectI management that gave one hoot for shareholder value (just management thatlF didn't want to be responsible for owning any technology, no matter howK valuable, and had found a convenient way to throw it away while maintainingaL at least some nominal cover through the fiction that Intel was 'buying' it).  K At the time the decision was made public, Itanic the First had just shippeduK to near-universal derision.  Compaq claimed to be cognizant of the proposedrH future roadmap for Itanic, which if true meant that they were aware thatH there was *nothing* planned for the core technology beyond Itanic2 (justH shrinks that would allow more on-chip cache and, eventually, dual cores:J clearly, had anything more substantive been in the works in early 2001, itJ would have by now appeared on the public Itanic roadmap, which now extends through Montecito in 2005).s  D So Compaq was committing its enterprise-level platforms' future to aL processor that was a complete flop in its first iteration and had no definedL prospects beyond the second generation (which by that time was known to be aL significant improvement but still hardly the RISC-killer that early spin hadG made it out to be).  In the process, they were not only throwing away a K proven architecture with a *very* well-defined future roadmap that promisedAF performance well ahead of Itanic's, but giving up perhaps the best MPUJ architecture team in the world so that Intel could use it to rescue Itanic from its dead-end future.n  L While Compaq would have liked to pass this off as a simple helping hand to aJ valued supplier, the result of the 'deal' with Intel was a major change to> Compaq's competitive position.  Before the Alphacide, Compaq'sJ enterprise-level business was similar to what IBM's remains today:  it hadK an existing, established, high-performance platform which could sustain the ? business (and in Compaq's case grow it substantially, given any J encouragement) whether Itanic succeeded or not, plus the option to embraceB Itanic to whatever degree proved appropriate if and when it becameI attractive.  This constituted significant insurance against the potentialtJ failure of Itanic and thus a significant competitive advantage that one ofD its three major enterprise competitors lacked:  HP was already fullyI committed to an Itanic future.  And this competitive advantage could have-C been exploited, rather than thrown away (placing Compaq in the sameTI committed-to-Itanic boat with HP):  withholding the Alpha team from Intel:H would have severely jeopardized Itanic's (and thus a major competitor's)H future without adversely affecting Compaq's, and the prospect of gainingL access to a large portion of the HP-UX customer base as a result should haveK been mouth-watering (again, with no down-side risk if Intel managed to pullsF Itanic's chestnuts out of the fire, since Compaq would still have been positioned to embrace it).  K Unfortunately, Compaq was being run by an incompetent whose secret plan for I turning the company around in 180 days was based on selling it to exactlytJ the competitor who needed Itanic to succeed.  While one can understand whyI this might have colored his judgement, the onus then fell upon the BoD tonH correct it, and they failed spectacularly:  instead, they likely said toK themselves "Most of the Alpha customer base are sheep who'll do whatever we K say is best for them and respond 'Thank you, sir - may I have another?', sopF screw the rest, take the money this quarter, and run like Hell for the exit."  K Their opinion of shareholders was likely similar, and at least in that caseyK they appear to have been largely right (Alpha customers seem to have provensK a bit less tractable, though hard numbers remain difficult to come by).  So K given that Compaq's egregious disregard of shareholder interest in trashingnK of Alpha didn't generate a class-action suit, its simple continuing neglectG@ of VMS (a long-standing existing policy) hardly seems likely to.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:14:26 +0000b( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSs) Message-ID: <3E5A0CA2.91DCAF60@127.0.0.1>.   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > John Smith wrote: 
 > > [snip]   > > Is it obvious now? > F > No, because you can express such without revealing enough details to > breach confidences.   H David, what is obvious is that you've never known you have, or have been with, the spooks.u  ; (John, I appreciate your words in this and other messages).  -- 0? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:31:13 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: The End of OpenVMS:T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,$  G So, while there will be official names, as I understand it, the reality  is that what we will have is:    OpenVMS VAXt
 OpenVMS Alpha6 OpenVMS I64e# OpenVMS xx? .. could not resist :-)K   Regardsi  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant0 Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration ServicesE Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)e OpenVMS DCL - the original .COMa     -----Original Message-----: From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]=20 Sent: February 23, 2003 8:17 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSi     Robert Deininger wrote:c< > But it doesn't matter.  You'd have bitched no matter what.  G If they simply renamed it to VMS and hp-VMS, I would not bitch. I bitcheH because they are working so damn hard to find complex names that confuse  people and reflect current fads.  E There is a big difference between deciding what F$GETSYI("ARCH_NAME")5G returns, and what you name the operating system for marketing purposes.   F The way Sue made it sound, the new name is to become the official nameE for VMS, that is used is whatever promotional materials. *IF* that iseD the case, I stand by my statement that they are making the very same5 mistake as Palmer did when he tagged the stupid Open.l  G In the early 1990s, "open" was the then buzzword. They tagged this ontotF VMS with disastrous proportion and by the time they were done with the* name change, the "open" fad had long gone.  F Now, they feel the need to embrace the stupid "industry standard" fad.@ At the very least they could drop the dead "open" from the name.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:09:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u Subject: RE: The End of OpenVMSn3 Message-ID: <VOoge4xptGA5@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ~ In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > JF,  > I > So, while there will be official names, as I understand it, the realitym > is that what we will have is:- > 
 > OpenVMS VAX0 > OpenVMS Alphar
 > OpenVMS I64m
 > OpenVMS xx?h  G And a special version for the most profitable industry on the Internet:e  
   OpenVMS xxx$  % >             .. could not resist :-)e   Nor could I.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:19:09 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSt3 Message-ID: <39Dq$QRGHS$m@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  b In article <8db3d6c8.0302230444.15e8fab7@posting.google.com>, nma124@hotmail.com (steve_H) writes: >  > " > Can I run VMS on my PC ?  (x86).  6    I run it on my Pentium laptop.  Please see the FAQ.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:58:59 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)u Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSs3 Message-ID: <AsiW7UWPlqGB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3E5A0CA2.91DCAF60@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >>   >> John Smith wrote: >> > [snip]  >  >> > Is it obvious now?  >> gG >> No, because you can express such without revealing enough details tot >> breach confidences. > J > David, what is obvious is that you've never known you have, or have been > with, the spooks.E >   @ 	To add just a tad.  You don't have to be a spook to be somewhatD 	familiar with the "do"s and "don't"s.  Read some spy books, whether> 	Bamford's latest on the NSA or something about Hanson we read< 	that you aren't even allowed to talk about anything relatedC 	to certain programs.  Likewise, a friend works for a noted company ? 	that does a lot of military work, he takes periodic lifestyle r= 	polygraphs.  He can't even talk about what he might or mightaE 	not be doing (never mind his work "details".)  So all we know is he -G 	works for that company but he can't talk about anything that involves  H 	his work and we have long since given up even asking, as he just grins.   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:20:04 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>b Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS H Message-ID: <EKq6a.57581$UXa.40421@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:VOoge4xptGA5@eisner.encompasserve.org...a > In articleF <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.ne- t>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:c > > JF,. > >6C > > So, while there will be official names, as I understand it, ther reality ! > > is that what we will have is:F > >G > > OpenVMS VAXc > > OpenVMS Alphae > > OpenVMS I64e > > OpenVMS xx?a >t? > And a special version for the most profitable industry on ther	 Internet:o >o >   OpenVMS xxxn >e' > >             .. could not resist :-)e >o > Nor could I.    A just watch...Intel/hp will come after me for divulging details ofh' their newest mobile processor offering:    OpenVMS LapDance (tm) platform   ------------------------------   Date: 24 FEB 2003 15:18:52 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 6 Message-ID: <24FEB03.15185296@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  ; In a previous article, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    ->....  What are they going toF ->do? Fire you all now when the port to IA-64 isn't done yet????  WellD ->the new HP might just do that. Well you can all threaten to resignE ->en-mass and let HP explain to their customers that the billions thev? ->customers have invested in OpenVMS is now toast cause all the G ->expertise just walked out the door, and the port's not done and we'veTD ->burn our boats behind us and customers don't have an EV8 lifeboat.* ->Sayonara HP credibility. Sayonara Carly.  H Keep in mind the US air traffic controllers tried something like this inE 1981 - and they all got fired. I'm sure they asked the same "What areaB they going to do" question too. You can never assume leaders (of a+ company or government) will act rationally.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison14 --             karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:49:38 -0500G- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>2 Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSa0 Message-ID: <3E5A6942.A91BBC49@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>  3 Sue Skonetski wrote regarding how names are chosen:tK > It is tied up with so much legal stuff its amazing.  Legal departments inIR > HP and the "other" company are involved and all kinds of research has to be done  L Perhaps it's time hp realized what a GOLD MINE it's sitting on regarding theN name "digital".  Your competitors can hardly even advertise their own productsG without also putting hp's trademarked (but deprecated) name in front ofoN customers.  HP should resurrect the digital name and let the OTHER GUYS' legalP departments work overtime to avoid trademark infringement of hp!  (Did I get the  upper/lowercase hp stuff right?)  K Plus "digital" is synonymous with quality in everybody's mind.  Never could.) understand why Compaq tried to bury it...l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:50:41 -0800g$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: The End of OpenVMS 0 Message-ID: <01C2DBF2.93EAC380@sulfer.icius.com>  ) >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]o6 >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message8 >news:d7791aa1.0302211425.4fe2ef72@posting.google.com...1 >> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageiE >news:<3lr5a.34525$UXa.20344@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...i >> >C >> > A simple premise really. Why isn't it done? Why keep all VMS'st@ >> > fabulous features and strengths a secret from companies the >> >world-over/ >> > that could really benefit from them today?  >> >	 >> > Johnr+ >> > (a VMS user and fan for over 20 years)> >>8 >> because someone is paying someone off, that's why ... >D5 >Bob, go take a Ritalin. Your ADD is acting up again.r  C Come on, John. I bet most of us have wondered whether that might be.G happening at some time or other in the last five years. Right or wrong,kB /somebody/ high up must think it's going to make them money, or it@ wouldn't be happening. I forget who I'm misquoting here, but "InC business, the answer to the question 'why don't they...?' is alwaysh	 'money'."(   ShaneS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:16:07 +0100b0 From: Nigel Barker <nigel@removetomailme@hp.com>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?8 Message-ID: <g2sj5vcl03ufqpecsucrpv6oem7lm8l6bf@4ax.com>  O On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:26:40 -0500, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:-   >a/ >"Nigel Barker" <nigel@hp.com> wrote in messageL3 >news:necc5vohsnonddu9esiph5hcb5f49hd294@4ax.com...r/ >> On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:49:39 -0400, JF MezeiN" ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>	 >> wrote:g >>> >> >Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ? >>9 >> The OpenVMS Rolling Roadmaps presentation available at.E >> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htmn2 >> details improvements planned for years to come. > L >Well, for two years to come, at any rate.  About then, the roadmap seems toJ >hit a dead end (at least w.r.t. any substantive information), which mightH >strike some as a bit ominous.  And the improvements planned during thatI >two-year period, while certainly worthwhile, are not what one might termm >'aggressive'.  J These are the _Rolling_ Roadmaps. Most go out to 2006. Look at the roadmap3 presentation in a year & they will be out to 2007. s   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azure   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Feb 2003 07:22:34 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <jQ7oKv04gU00@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  U In article <3E569B38.2FBEE3FD@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:/ > G > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a single F > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.I > Whereas, there are a host of things that I can't do with EDT that I can 
 > do in TPU.   > What am I missing ?t; > (EDT'ers please do not flame. This is an honest question)g  B   EDT's brief line editting commands.  When I need to make a quickB   change to several files I quite often write a little EDT script.B   I already have a DCL utility which will loop over several files,9   the required command then is "edit/edt/command=script".    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:53:15 -0500kA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>e( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?. Message-ID: <3e5a23cc$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K Here's a little trick.  If you are on an Alpha, do a SET TERM/DEV=VT52 when>J you are on the graphics console without X11 running, but with the "OpenVMSK Console" line at the bottom of the screen.  There is a little VT52 emulatorh3 built into the console code in the graphics driver.p      4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message% news:3E56B7C9.F8AB383D@pacbell.net...gD > Now that you mention it, I too have been stuck with line-mode onlyG > during the boot process. I haven't revisited TPU since I completed myaE > custom version some years ago, so I don't know if there is/not somea' > method to create a line mode version.t >h > Shane Smith wrote: > > K > > I ran into one thing the other day. Line mode. AFAIK, there's no way totJ > > use TPU/EVE if you're on an unsupported terminal. Installing VMS on anK > > AS1000A before the DECWindows license and the networking were set up, I E > > needed to edit a file so I had to fall back on long forgotten EDTi
 > > commands.h > >/- > > I'm normally an EVE under DECWindows guy.a > >e	 > > Shanee > >a > > -----Original Message-----2 > > From: Don Sykes [mailto:anonymous@pacbell.net]+ > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:30 PMs > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2, > > Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? > >-I > > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a single(H > > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.K > > Whereas, there are a host of things that I can't do with EDT that I canp > > do in TPU. > > What am I missing ?y= > > (EDT'ers please do not flame. This is an honest question)> > >t > > -- > >u > > Have VMS, Will Travel  > > Wire paladin, San Franciscor > >i > > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)& > > __________________________________ > >e > > Phillip Helbig wrote:  > > > @ > > > > TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ? > > >dJ > > > There is a lot of work to do improving TPU, which is why I still useL > > > mainly EDT.  (Yes, there are some things I occasionally need which TPUF > > > does better, but more which I often need which EDT does better.) > > >hL > > > IIRC, EDT is still supported but frozen.  Perhaps it is even no longerK > > > supported.  In any case, it is clear that the code won't change much.  ItL > > > think the manual is only available in text or perhaps PostScript form;K > > > how's that for "cast in stone"?  Thus, it is not a moving target.  It7I > > > would be nice if the EDT emulation in EVE (what annoys me more thaneK > > > non-VMS systems being called clusters is folks who use the EDT keypaduH > > > only in the EDT emulation of EVE saying "I am familiar with EDT"!) wouldvJ > > > do everything EDT can do---EDTINI.EDT file, all three modes etc.  In. > > > other words, make EVE a superset of EDT. > > > K > > > How much work would this be?  Of course, only the beginning of a filenK > > > should be read if that is all that is needed, the cursor speed shouldA beI > > > as fast as in EDT and not jump unnecessarily to the end of the linet etc. > > >oJ > > > Just another question: what fraction of EVE users use the DECwindows > > > interface? >' > -- >p > Have VMS, Will Traveln > Wire paladin, San Francisco  >$ > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:53:15 -0500AA From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star-dot-zko-dot-dec-dot-com>i( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?, Message-ID: <3e5a2627_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  K Here's a little trick.  If you are on an Alpha, do a SET TERM/DEV=VT52 whenOJ you are on the graphics console without X11 running, but with the "OpenVMSK Console" line at the bottom of the screen.  There is a little VT52 emulator 3 built into the console code in the graphics driver.s      4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message% news:3E56B7C9.F8AB383D@pacbell.net...nD > Now that you mention it, I too have been stuck with line-mode onlyG > during the boot process. I haven't revisited TPU since I completed my-E > custom version some years ago, so I don't know if there is/not somen' > method to create a line mode version.e >d > Shane Smith wrote: > >bK > > I ran into one thing the other day. Line mode. AFAIK, there's no way tonJ > > use TPU/EVE if you're on an unsupported terminal. Installing VMS on anK > > AS1000A before the DECWindows license and the networking were set up, I E > > needed to edit a file so I had to fall back on long forgotten EDT.
 > > commands.e > >.- > > I'm normally an EVE under DECWindows guy.c > >i	 > > Shaneu > >r > > -----Original Message-----2 > > From: Don Sykes [mailto:anonymous@pacbell.net]+ > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 1:30 PMa > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > > Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? > >)I > > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singlerH > > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.K > > Whereas, there are a host of things that I can't do with EDT that I can! > > do in TPU. > > What am I missing ?o= > > (EDT'ers please do not flame. This is an honest question)F > >A > > -- > >o > > Have VMS, Will Travel  > > Wire paladin, San Franciscoo > >t > > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)& > > __________________________________ > >- > > Phillip Helbig wrote:t > > >u@ > > > > TPU ?  What do you find about TPU that needs improving ? > > >fJ > > > There is a lot of work to do improving TPU, which is why I still useL > > > mainly EDT.  (Yes, there are some things I occasionally need which TPUF > > > does better, but more which I often need which EDT does better.) > > >eL > > > IIRC, EDT is still supported but frozen.  Perhaps it is even no longerK > > > supported.  In any case, it is clear that the code won't change much.p IiL > > > think the manual is only available in text or perhaps PostScript form;K > > > how's that for "cast in stone"?  Thus, it is not a moving target.  ItdI > > > would be nice if the EDT emulation in EVE (what annoys me more thanIK > > > non-VMS systems being called clusters is folks who use the EDT keypadeH > > > only in the EDT emulation of EVE saying "I am familiar with EDT"!) wouldeJ > > > do everything EDT can do---EDTINI.EDT file, all three modes etc.  In. > > > other words, make EVE a superset of EDT. > > >eK > > > How much work would this be?  Of course, only the beginning of a fileGK > > > should be read if that is all that is needed, the cursor speed shoulds beI > > > as fast as in EDT and not jump unnecessarily to the end of the line, etc. > > >1J > > > Just another question: what fraction of EVE users use the DECwindows > > > interface? >V > -- >e > Have VMS, Will Travel% > Wire paladin, San Franciscoe >g > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:51:16 GMT.& From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@attbi.com>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?& Message-ID: <3E5A3F8D.80808@attbi.com>   Don Sykes wrote:G > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a single F > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.  C And I can't think of a single thing that EDT can do that I can't doc@ with a few hundred lines of FORTRAN, supplemented by a few MACRO> subroutines, and invoked from a few dozen lines of DCL.  Phew.  B ISTR wasting lots of night/weekend time customizing TPU to do what> EDT did out of the box.  The fact that EDT is a canned app can save a lot of time.o -- r Cheers, Bobt   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:05:40 +0100 (MET).9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>&( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?; Message-ID: <01KSTNRW02LE9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   D > I'd be happy if they'd just give EDT the capability to use all theC > lines on the screen instead of the 24 it currently does. And as al: > bonus, the ability to work with files with long records.  F 24 lines is not a priority for me, but long lines would be nice.  (By C the way, are they actually "truncated" in the file or only for the  	 display?)l  B The only other thing I like about EVE is LEARN, but that might be - because I have never gotten around to CTRL-K.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:16:13 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?; Message-ID: <01KSTNUGTTZC9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singletF > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.  6 Just off the top of my head, and by no means complete:  G I used to have occasion to edit large (100 MB or so) PostScript files, dE where I had to change a couple of lines at the top.  With EDT, a few nI seconds (then have a cup of tea while it saves the file, or do something u3 else).  With EVE, first wait until it reads it all.I  F I don't like the way the cursor sometimes jumps to the end of the line? on EVE.  Even on really fast machines, so it's not some sort oft slow-update problem.  I I have lots and lots of self-written stuff which pops me into an editor,  G often launch editors from VMS applications etc.  My impression is that CF EDT is quicker, even though I have a relatively large EDTINI.EDT file.  G EDT is easy to use in batch---I use it a lot for search-and-replace in A$ something like [...]*.html;/sin=yes.  F EVE (Just heard about this, never seen it myself) bombs if DISPLAY is G not set when firing it up from MAIL (perhaps the DECwindows interface).o   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:21:41 +0100 (MET)09 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?; Message-ID: <01KSTO9ZFR3Y9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>s  D > Now that you mention it, I too have been stuck with line-mode onlyG > during the boot process. I haven't revisited TPU since I completed mysE > custom version some years ago, so I don't know if there is/not some ' > method to create a line mode version.C  E Ah yes.  From anywhere in the world, I can connect to my VMS machine aI from an internet cafe and actually REPL/EDIT/EXTRACT and so on.  OK, the tI VT100 emulation is often dodgy in such places (the depths that I will go mH to in order to access VMS MAIL when travelling; should be saving up for G that Tadpole!) but line mode commands are essential here.  I have lots cI of macros normally mapped to keystrokes (delete the RFC22 headers from a nG message, add quote symbols, include signature file or even a "quote du oG jour".  If there is no EDT keypad, I can just type in the names of the   macros in line mode.   > Shane Smith wrote: > > K > > I ran into one thing the other day. Line mode. AFAIK, there's no way togJ > > use TPU/EVE if you're on an unsupported terminal. Installing VMS on anK > > AS1000A before the DECWindows license and the networking were set up, I<E > > needed to edit a file so I had to fall back on long forgotten EDT(
 > > commands.t > + > I'm normally an EVE under DECWindows guy.y  F You mean the DECwindows interface to EVE?  (I'm normally an EDT under A DECwindows guy, but the EDT is the same as on a terminal.  :-)  )o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:57:10 -0500 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com> Subject: Re: URL changet/ Message-ID: <v5kg77c9kr8i4e@news.supernews.com>a  
 absolutely  K The islandco.com server has a little jave script forwarding islandco.com toT hpaq.net? And will stay that way until the Master DNS records are changed:   DT   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Feb 2003 16:07:43 GMT- From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@nospam.rcn.com>  Subject: Re: URL change;> Message-ID: <Xns932C713545E7Bkenrbnsnrbnsncom@199.184.165.241>  / "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com> wrote inh( news:v5kg77c9kr8i4e@news.supernews.com:    > absolutely > = > The islandco.com server has a little jave script forwarding' > islandco.com to hpaq.netA > And will stay that way until the Master DNS records are changed1 >   I Why are you using Javascript for this?  Just put it into the Meta tag of    your index file on islandco.com:  H i.e.: < META http-equiv="refresh" content="0; URL=http://www.hpaq.net/">  ; Or. if you're using PHP, your index.php could looking like:    < ?php e"   location("header:www.hpaq.net");	   exit();n   ?>   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:56:33 -0500 , From: "Island" <dbturner@nospamislandco.com> Subject: Re: URL changes. Message-ID: <v5kn76jkk2dfd@news.supernews.com>   java is easy   ergo...S   DT   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:14:34 -0000p3 From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> 6 Subject: Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?* Message-ID: <b3d92m$t2s$1@kermit.esat.net>  ; "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message.- news:L%b6a.64399$Rb4.893193@news.chello.at...mK > I recently found a bug again which I already discovered many years ago...d >eF > A SET COMMAND/OBJECT of a DECnet served source file (via SET DEFAULT node::) J > produces a 0 byte object file without any error message. And it makes noA > difference if you do it from VAX to Alpha or from Alpha to VAX.t  K Yes, I'd noticed this.  I assume this is one of the reasons why Set DefaulteD to a remote DECnet node is not officially supported.  I too would be interested in the explanation.  K As a workaround, I use the following command file to be executed by the VAXe0 when it is Set Defaulted to the Alpha directory:  A $ !  Set Command/obj doesn't work when SET DEFAULTed over DECnet.n $o* $       Copy PMDF-STATS-CLD.CLD SYS$LOGIN:) $       where = F$Environment ("default")r $       Set Default SYS$LOGINe) $       Set Command/object PMDF-STATS-CLDi $       Set Default 'where'i, $       Copy SYS$LOGIN:PMDF-STATS-CLD.OBJ []  H I incorporate this into the build procedures when I need to produce both Alpha and VAX objects.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------I Tom Wade    | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie (all domain mailers).sG EuroKom     | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=ie & 30, Dale Rd | Tel:   +353 (1) 278-7878& Stillorgan  | Fax:   +353 (1) 278-78793 Co Dublin   | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimeru@ Ireland     | Tip:         "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:37:14 GMTi' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>t' Subject: Re: [JAVA] Performance Guide ?s, Message-ID: <3E5A4A38.1030008@theblakes.com>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:  M >No, I mean JAVA RTE/SDK. I still don't use Tomcat, but I downloaded V1.4.0-1rI >recently to start yet another try with JAVA programs. I started with thenL >MOZILLA plugin which gave me a "image mismatch" (probably because I haven't+ >installed the required ACRTL/SYS ECO yet).* >*D If you are using Java 1.4-0-1, please wait for Mozilla 1.3 final as > there are some issues with Mozilla 1.2 and early 1.3 versions.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.108 ************************