1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 26 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 111       Contents:P =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=AE_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?; Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data  Re: Dumping LAT / Re: DVD readers that could also boot VMS CDs(?) P Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo9 Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration.... 9 Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration.... < Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory' Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup ' Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup ' Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup ' RE: ftp server gets disabled at startup  Re: GCC for VMS  RE: GCC for VMS  Re: GCC for VMS  RE: GCC for VMS  Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Help. BIND Problem Re: Hobbyist CD in old drives @ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue@ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue@ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue@ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue@ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue# HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results ' Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results > Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo> Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo> Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo> Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo> Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo HP's latest quartely results  Re: HP's latest quartely resultsH Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume setH Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume setH Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set RE: I feel that might help! RE: I feel that might help (spam) D Re: Idea for installing VMS without a 512byte CD-ROM...Will it work?1 Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 8 Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip)8 Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip)8 Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip)/ Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!  Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD  Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the - Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31 P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Pine Email Problem on OpenVMS  Problem booting 4000/90  RE: Problem booting 4000/90 F Re: Problems connecting to PATHWORKS share ofter upgrade from V5 to V6 Re: PRODUCT REMOVE problem. ; Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language? ) Question: retrieve integer from longword. E Re: Question: why sometimes asctim returns "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00"? E Re: Question: why sometimes asctim returns "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00"? ) Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR ) Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR   Re: Samba Missing stropts.h file+ Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box + Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box   TCPIP and network loss detection$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. RE: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface? Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS RE: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS% Re: Type the beginning of a file only . RE: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2. Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2. Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2. RE: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2. Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2. Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2 Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5   Re: Where to get a recent Emacs?- Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press 1 Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press - Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ? . Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:21:03 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>Y Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Official_OpenVMS_name_for_the_Itanium=AE_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q? 0 Message-ID: <01C2DCC0.14966F70@sulfer.icius.com>  @ Hmmmm, Andrew is defending Opteron. Maybe that article about SunE debuting an Opteron product at the chip's launch just gained a little  more credibility.    Shane    -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy    Rob Young wrote:: > In article <3E56806F.8E16A8C6@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >  >>Sue Skonetski wrote: >>$ >>>"hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64" >>G >>Is this an official announcement that VMS is being ported to HAMMER ?  >>N >>IA64 is NOT industry standard. Please, put that into everyone's head at HP.  >> >  > A > 	At one time, IA32 wasn't industry standard either.  It appears A > 	they are getting a jump on branding and marketing.  Smart move  > 	on their part.  >  > F >>Until the port to Hammer is officially announced, you are misleading	 customers M >>by using "industry standard". The industry standard is the 8086. And Hammer F >>will, for now, be the only one offering a 64 bit version of industry	 standard.  >> >  > 4 > 	John McCalpin (Dr. John, author of STREAM, formerG > 	professor at Univerisity of Delaware, former SGI employee, currently = > 	at IBM in high performance design) tells us the following:  >  > M http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b334r4%248sg%241%40ausnews.austin.ibm.co 
 m&oe=UTF-8 > 1 > From: McCalpin (mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com) 0 > Subject: Re: Same cache block optimizations?? ' > View: Complete Thread (14 articles)    > Original Format  > Newsgroups: comp.arch  > Date: 2003-02-20 > D > "Without directories, Opteron systems are not likely to scale veryB > well past 4 cpus.   The low-dimension interconnect combined withA > the broadcast snoops will result in both a significant increase C > in memory latency (local and remote) as well as a high percentage B > of the HT links' bandwidth being used for snoops and responses." >  >   3 Well even if this is correct and I wouldn't want to 3 argue with John its probably not that relevant. For  a number of reasons.  5 Firstly, while 4 may be the optimum configuration for 1 Opteron it doesn't preclude people building 8 way 2 systems. You of all people should know that moving2 from say 4 to 8 CPU's with a longer latency hasn't1 stopped people selling or designing systems, this 2 describes the current 2-8 Xeon market well as well as the lamentable GS160/320.  2 Secondly 1-8 CPU's is the market where Intel makes1 the bulk of its margins. Losing significant share / int he premium x86 market will hurt Intel badly / and anything that hurst Intel will also hurt HP # because of their dependance in IPF.   2 Itanium based on current Itanium II package prices6 from HP seems destined for the 8 way and above market.1 94K for a 4 way box is a lot when compared with 4 1 Way RISC servers from Sun/IBM or 4 way IA32 boxes   6 And anyway Itanium isn't currently margin positive and* its units volumes are low to non existant.  6 So Opteron is most likely initially to eat into Intels3 revenues where they hurt most in the IA32 space for  premium desktops and servers.   7 Thirdly AMD are developing a Hammer CPU that has better : support for more CPU's. It may have escaped you notice but9 currently HP's largest Itanium II server supports 4 CPU's 9 because HP didn't have a support chipset for more. Hammer < has this on-chip so what AMD are doing is not very different: to what HP have had to do to get more than 4 way Itaniums.  : Once AMD get there though they will have a much lower cost" base to work against than Itanium.  9 Intel talk blythely about 5K Itanium II systems but their ; biggest OEM HP is intent on charging ~23K per CPU in actual 0 packages. Is HP intent in limiting demand, uping< margins or do they simply not want to operate at the kind of? margin they currently do in the IA32 space simply to keep Intel  profitable.    regards  Andrew Harrison     @ > 	Read the follow-up threads.  The conclusion there was/is thatB > 	Red Storm (the 10000 CPU Sandia Opteron) is a T3E knock-off and > 	not cache coherent. > F > 	Now perhaps you may wish to wander over to comp.arch and straightenB > 	those guys out or tell us how we will see an 8, 16+ CPU OpteronA > 	box in the next 2 years?  That would be helpful to stating and C > 	supporting a case for Opteron's greatness or would help convince  > 	me. > F > 	Point is, Opteron will have its nice little niche and will no doubt< > 	make Intel crank and crank and lower prices on Xeon.  But3 > 	it isn't a very interesting debate.  Or is it?    > D > 	Maybe a large upward trend in AMD stock price and/or AMD Opteron C > 	partners to show something fantastic about to be sprung on us?   F > 	Sun selling them?  Well... okay, but where is the stock movement or= > 	any ancillary evidence Opteron will gain traction for AMD?  > 	 > 				Rob  > G > "FIRE God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, not of philosophers and scholars, N > Certainty, certainty, heartfelt, joy, peace. God of Jesus Christ. My God andL > your God, Thy God shall be my God."   -- Blaise Pascal - November 23, 1654 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:24:00 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>D Subject: Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data/ Message-ID: <3E5BB4C0.62D49199@vl.videotron.ca>    Johan Nilsson wrote:J > shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition fromK > another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data in E > the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.     K Is this at compile time ? Or at link time ? Could you include the EXACT AND ! COMPLETE message that is issued ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:03:29 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Dumping LAT6 Message-ID: <b3gi71$1m5bfc$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  @ "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht7 news:cf15391e.0302241850.21093d26@posting.google.com... / > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message 2 news:<b3ds57$1lg9d2$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>...I > > Of course DNPG is a good source for new equipment. But it is the only  sourceF > > left and again, 24x7 shops tend to frown upon one single supplier. > G > That's an interesting comment in light of the "Buy Only Cisco" policy 5 > in place in network groups at many large sites. :-)   I Kit from one vendor simplifies daily operations, sure. If the vendor goes I belly up then your campany suddenly has a challenge (long term, but still E real) to face. Having two product lines reduces that chance somewhat. F These days I'm at an IBM shop and that's T*R* only, and thus no longerI current with what's going on in the modern world of networking. The thing H with DNPG is it sure is a good initiative, as long as they can build andD design successors to the HUB90/HuB900 series. But a lot of their newJ products (without the Digital label) seem rebadged third party products. IK have no idea whether that will help them to survive in the long run. But it 0 is insufficient to build an infrastructure upon.F Cisco is big and many people find comfort in buying from them; akin to( "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" . YMMV   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:28:44 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> 8 Subject: Re: DVD readers that could also boot VMS CDs(?)B Message-ID: <250220031828441326%spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com>  g In article <hdF6a.68$Aa4.31@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>, James Wilkinson <elementyl@hotmail.com> wrote:   < > "David Spencer" <spencer@spaamfree.pageweavers.com> wrote:M > > I'd like to install a DVD reader in my 500au. I don't want to write DVDs. R > > I just want to be able to read them when written in ISO9660 format. The reader< > > could be either SCSI or IDE - my PWS will handle either. > L > The Toshiba drives should be pretty safe.  I don't have a dvd installed inM > any of mine at the moment but am pretty sure I've used my SD-M1402 (IDE) in  > the past.  > : > > It would also be nice, but not manditory, that I could< > > toss my OpenVMS CD in there and be able to boot from it. > F > If your workstation has the Cypress IDE controller then it should be3 > bootable, otherwise you'll want the SCSI version.   S I have one of the newer 500au's that has the USB ports. It also has the IDE CD-ROM. < I'm presuming that this is the variation of which you speak.     -- Dave    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:22:49 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo 8 Message-ID: <bjgn5vsu7mgr1scb05o2v1i6r5tbq5qssj@4ax.com>  7 On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:06:47 -0000, "Helmut P. Einfalt"  <hp.einfalt@t-online.de> wrote:   3 >>Always cracks me up the way these kids talk about = >>one machine which has 2% better performance than another...  > F >...and bear in mind that it is *benchmark* perfomance more often than >not...! >   E Oh, but we have it on top authority in here that benchmarks are *the* & most important measure of performance.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 21:58:07 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>B Subject: Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration....6 Message-ID: <20030225215807.19726.qmail@gacracker.org>  ; On 25 Feb 2003, d_cymbal@hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) wrote:    <snip>  E >P.S.  Any recommendations for the easiest way of getting source code D >files off my PC and into the emulator?  Get TCP/IP running and then >ftp them?  Some other trick?   D My introduction to managing a VMS system was getting handed one withJ Multinet running. That proved extremely easy to administer so was my first* choice when setting up my Hobbyist system.  K Of course, getting the install kit in was the big stumbling block. I set up H Compaq TCP/IP just by running the provided command files and then ran an: FTP server on my PC which I downloaded kits and ECOs from.  I If you currently only need the bare minimum of TCP/IP functionality, this F approach could permit you to get all the kits etc you want installed &9 running then defer learning an IP stack for another time.      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:00:20 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>B Subject: Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration....6 Message-ID: <b3glhg$1lvt34$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  9 "Damien Cymbal" <d_cymbal@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 7 news:1b0eb888.0302250711.5eb9d2d8@posting.google.com...  > Hello All, > D > I got my OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX Hobbyist CD yesterday in the mail was8 > able to get it installed and running on simh.  Hurrah! > H > The bitter reality has now set in that in my years of utilizing VMS atG > the university, I was just a plain-old-user and I never had to act in & > any sort of administrative capacity. > D > I have downloaded a bunch of the openvms doc files which I will be< > digging into as time permits, but I wonder is there a niceF > synopsis/tutorial of "what you need to know now for new admins" that$ > summarizes things at a high level?  H The VMS system manager's essentials guide is a pretty good introduction.< Do set up a non-privileged account before you do any damage:& $ def/sys sysuaf sys$system:sysuaf.dat $ mc authorize addK damien/uic=[200,2]/nopwdexp/nopassword/flag=nodisuser/dev=dua1/dir=[damien]  $ mount/sys dua1 user # $ cre/dir dua1:[damien]/own=[200,2]  $ lo% And logon again with the new account. J This example assumes that you've configured the VAXsimh 3900 with a second disk (RA82, Rd54).  A > Initially I am most interested in getting TCP/IP setup and then G > installing most of the layered product development language tools.  I H > basically want to play around with some old VMS code (PASCAL, FORTRAN,G > MACRO/32) I had written for my own amusement.  I don't foresee myself F > doing anything too "heavy" with the system from an admin standpoint.  K Installing TCPIP itself is straightforward: mount the cd and set def to the ( directory where *tcpip*.pcsi is located. Next:  $ product install tcpip  $ set def sys$manager  $ @tcpip$config G a) select core components, option A (all: it'll guide you in the proper   sequence thru all the questions)F b) select client components, select the options you need (telnet, ftp)G The client component will ask you whether you want the server component  configured as well. K That way you can be fairly sure that all will work when you start the TCPIP 	 services.  Prerequisite information: 
 - domain name  - host name  - host ip address  - host mask C the procedure asks whether your LAN uses all zeroes or all ones for H broadcasts: most likely the default answer (all ones) will work for you.   > Thanks for any pointers. > F > P.S.  Any recommendations for the easiest way of getting source codeE > files off my PC and into the emulator?  Get TCP/IP running and then  > ftp them?  Some other trick?  	 Two ways:  - get ip up and running and ftp L - go to the CHARON and get a utility that puts files inside a container file7 that behaves like a disk to simh (and Charon of course)    Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:14:15 -0500 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com> E Subject: Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory / Message-ID: <v5oj9d69ton1ea@corp.supernews.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:Ku5vH43sgCuc@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > In article <a98cd882.0302250221.a4f78ef@posting.google.com>,' Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes: 
 > > Hello, > > H > > Is anyone using External Authentication from OpenVMS V7.3 / AdvancedI > > Server V7.3 to a Windows2000 Active Directory domain? Advanced Server G > > has it's own domain and has a /TRUSTED relation with the AD domain.   J Have you verified that the trust itself is working?  If so, then, Ext Auth should work. > > G > > I think I have set everything according to the documentation, but I < > > keep getting "%LOGIN-F-NOSUCHUSER, no such user" errors. > >   K I suspect that the problem isn't with the AD aspect of things, but, instead I with the ability of the local machine to find the user remotely, and that E could be due to some hostmap restrictions (things like hostmapdomains F registry settings?), or, you are relying on an implicit mapping to the' remote domain that isn't being allowed?   K When you login, have you tried specifying the username in a username@domain  format (or domain\username)?  > > > It does work when I try it with another OpenVMS/AS domain. > >   G What works?  EA to the other AS domain?  Or, the other AS domain has EA  working to an AD domain?    > > Has anybody any suggestions? > H > 1. Are you surely running Windows 2000 in a "backward compatibility to >    earlier windows" mode ? > I This shouldn't be necessary, but, it might simplify things.  On a related I note, I would check some of the AD domain security settings.  Things like E "restrictanonymous" registry setting can wreak havoc with Win2K/WinNT  interoperability.    Brad   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:01:51 +0100 , From: "Reinhard Eigner" <antispam@garnix.de>0 Subject: Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup/ Message-ID: <b3gech$c1k$03$1@news.t-online.com>   9 "Otto Kolbe" <otto.kolbe@klst.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 7 news:c9ab8878.0302250917.2766e491@posting.google.com... G > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with TCPIP V5.3 - ECO 1. Strange things happen > > during boot: the ftp server starts up, only to get disabled. >   tcpip enable service ftp+ > does not complain but leaves it disabled.   L This is exactly the same problem I had. Finally I reinstalled VMS 7.3-1 with the > default installation packages and everything was working fine.F There's also a bug in the AUTOGEN and if you want to set GMT-Timezones- at the installation the installations aborts.    Reinhard   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:34:27 -0000 3 From: "Jefferson Humber" <matrix01@globalnet.co.uk> 0 Subject: Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup3 Message-ID: <-x-dnWVjPsDLTsajXTWc3w@brightview.com>   E I had something similar on system boot (v.7.3 AXP - TCP/IP 5.1 ECO3).   I It turned out there was a call in my SYSLOGIN.COM that called a .COM file  that didn't exist.  I Strange but true, for some reason this stopped some of my TCP/IP services  starting @ boot time.    Jeff    3 "Otto Kolbe" <otto.kolbe@klst.com> wrote in message 7 news:c9ab8878.0302250917.2766e491@posting.google.com... G > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with TCPIP V5.3 - ECO 1. Strange things happen > > during boot: the ftp server starts up, only to get disabled. >   tcpip enable service ftp+ > does not complain but leaves it disabled. = > The setup via tcpip$config is ok, nothing special about it.  > H > The procedure to fire up the ftp server TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM > works fine on a console. > : > What can be wrong - I find nothing in the documentation. >   > This is from the Operator.log: > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.92  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on FRZAXP" > INTERnet ACP Activate FTP Server > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.92  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on FRZAXP? > INTERnet ACP NOLISTEN Process creation success: Service - FTP  > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.99  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on FRZAXPL > INTERnet ACP Error during process startup, Nolisten Service Disabled - FTP Serv > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.99  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on FRZAXP$ > INTERnet ACP Deactivate FTP Server > " > Any help or hint is appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:22:25 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup/ Message-ID: <3E5BC26D.1CDB9881@vl.videotron.ca>    Otto Kolbe wrote:  > G > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with TCPIP V5.3 - ECO 1. Strange things happen > > during boot: the ftp server starts up, only to get disabled. >   tcpip enable service ftp+ > does not complain but leaves it disabled. = > The setup via tcpip$config is ok, nothing special about it.   M TCPIP services automatically tries o restart a service X times in a period of 7 time, after which it gives up and disables the service.   G Look at the $disk:[tcpip$ftp]tcpip$ftp_run.log for more information. I  9 *suspect* some of the shareable images are not installed.   J I had a similar problem with the iMAP server on VAX since the IMAP startup, procedure forgot to instal a bunch of files.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:23:15 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 0 Subject: RE: ftp server gets disabled at startupT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9D56@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Jeff,    Re: ftp server not starting.  G I had the same issue yesterday on a new demo system I am setting up for # a Customer seminar later this week.   B SYLOGIN had some errors due to changes I did and it caused the ftpF server not to start. TCPIP$CONFIG showed service ok, but the following& showed TCPIP service in disabled mode:   TCPIP> show service *    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)  OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM      -----Original Message-----; From: Jefferson Humber [mailto:matrix01@globalnet.co.uk]=20  Sent: February 25, 2003 3:34 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup    E I had something similar on system boot (v.7.3 AXP - TCP/IP 5.1 ECO3).   D It turned out there was a call in my SYSLOGIN.COM that called a .COM file that didn't exist.   @ Strange but true, for some reason this stopped some of my TCP/IP services starting @ boot time.   Jeff    3 "Otto Kolbe" <otto.kolbe@klst.com> wrote in message 7 news:c9ab8878.0302250917.2766e491@posting.google.com... J > I am running VMS 7.3-1 with TCPIP V5.3 - ECO 1. Strange things happen=20> > during boot: the ftp server starts up, only to get disabled. >   tcpip enable service ftp+ > does not complain but leaves it disabled. = > The setup via tcpip$config is ok, nothing special about it.  > H > The procedure to fire up the ftp server TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM   > works fine on a console. > : > What can be wrong - I find nothing in the documentation. >   > This is from the Operator.log: > J > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.92  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from=20: > user INTERnet on FRZAXP INTERnet ACP Activate FTP Server > J > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.92  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from=20C > user INTERnet on FRZAXP INTERnet ACP NOLISTEN Process creation=20  > success: Service - FTP > J > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.99  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from=20G > user INTERnet on FRZAXP INTERnet ACP Error during process startup,=20 ! > Nolisten Service Disabled - FTP  Serv > J > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  24-FEB-2003 15:35:33.99  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from=20< > user INTERnet on FRZAXP INTERnet ACP Deactivate FTP Server > " > Any help or hint is appreciated.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 04:48:15 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: GCC for VMSD Message-ID: <20030225204554.44CFBFEA.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   A > It has been some time since I looked at it, but gcc has lexical + > scoping, I didn't know that DEC C had it.   ! Lexical scoping in C?? ::boggle::      --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:19:13 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: GCC for VMS9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAEGLAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- : >From: prep@k9 [mailto:prep@k9]On Behalf Of Paul Repacholi* >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:48 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: GCC for VMS  >  > & >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > B >> It has been some time since I looked at it, but gcc has lexical, >> scoping, I didn't know that DEC C had it. > " >Lexical scoping in C?? ::boggle::  E Why not?  Nested procdures allows you to get away from encapsulation, $ which has been taken to the extreme.   >  >  >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd., 8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076 + >comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot / >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. G >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:53:29 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>  Subject: Re: GCC for VMS/ Message-ID: <v5o0fp7eaoop73@corp.supernews.com>   " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:C :>> It has been some time since I looked at it, but gcc has lexical - :>> scoping, I didn't know that DEC C had it.   # :>Lexical scoping in C?? ::boggle::   G : Why not?  Nested procdures allows you to get away from encapsulation, & : which has been taken to the extreme.  C If (IIRC) lexical scoping is : the scope of variables is limited to E the block where they're defined (or blocks nested within that block), B then I've never used a C compiler that didnt have lexical scoping.   Do I not understand the term?    --    D "France wants more evidence ... The last time the French wanted moreD  evidence, it rolled right over them with a German flag."  Letterman        ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:53:02 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: GCC for VMS9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEAFGLAA.tom@kednos.com>    >-----Original Message----- ( >From: Z [mailto:zarlenga@conan.ids.net]) >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:53 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: GCC for VMS  >  > # >Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote: D >:>> It has been some time since I looked at it, but gcc has lexical. >:>> scoping, I didn't know that DEC C had it. > $ >:>Lexical scoping in C?? ::boggle:: > H >: Why not?  Nested procdures allows you to get away from encapsulation,' >: which has been taken to the extreme.  > D >If (IIRC) lexical scoping is : the scope of variables is limited toF >the block where they're defined (or blocks nested within that block),C >then I've never used a C compiler that didnt have lexical scoping.   L C is normally not considered a block structured language.  nested procedures9 inheriting form outer scopes, is what I mean by the term.    >  >Do I not understand the term? >  >--  > E >"France wants more evidence ... The last time the French wanted more E > evidence, it rolled right over them with a German flag."  Letterman  >  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:37:13 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>  Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem * Message-ID: <3E5BB89A.36DB47D@pacbell.net>   Michael Austin wrote:  >  > Don Sykes wrote: > >  > <snip> > > > L > > So you want to do your own back translation and drop the offending email > > yourself ? > G > not the point.  The point is, because I use DYNAMIC IP, my email gets E > bounced/dropped because MY IP address does not back-translate to my 6 > domain - it translates to a DSL address from my ISP. > J > Although, I do drop a number of IP's from RBL's and certain Asia-Pacific5 > Class A networks.... reduced my spam significantly.   G Ah ha. But what does a bloke like me do to accept mail from people like C you while rejecting mail from made up domains? (thinking out loud)I ? wonder what would happen to my spam levels if I start accepting E non-backtranslateables? I wonder if I'm rejecting a lot of offers for  work?!   >  > >  > > -- > >  > > Have VMS, Will Travel  > > Wire paladin, San Francisco  > >  > > (paladinATalphaseDOTcom) >  > --
 > Regards, > 8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19849 > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:41:18 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>  Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem + Message-ID: <3E5BB98E.67D639B6@pacbell.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Don Sykes wrote: > > K > > Never mind. After a lot of paniky fumbling. I got things working again. I > > Although I stll don't know what file BIND was looking for. I wound up P > > going to trusty old SYS$        MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG and redoing everything.I > > I just wish the whole NAME/ROUTING stuff was easier to understand and  > > manage.  > L > Once you dump the TCPIP> configuration for BIND and go with the "standard"J > unix style configuration, then it becomes easier to debug. The log filesN > provide the messages when it tries to parse the files and you need not worry5 > about the CONVERT/UNIX  stuff in the TCPIP Utility.   H Is what you're suggesting described in the TCPIP USer's Guide? I've goneG to that many times, but it's still confusing to me. Can you point me to  the chapter & verse?   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:06:41 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem ; Message-ID: <01KSV9LOHP4C9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   N > > > So you want to do your own back translation and drop the offending email > > > yourself ? > > I > > not the point.  The point is, because I use DYNAMIC IP, my email gets G > > bounced/dropped because MY IP address does not back-translate to my 8 > > domain - it translates to a DSL address from my ISP. > > L > > Although, I do drop a number of IP's from RBL's and certain Asia-Pacific7 > > Class A networks.... reduced my spam significantly.  > I > Ah ha. But what does a bloke like me do to accept mail from people like E > you while rejecting mail from made up domains? (thinking out loud)I A > wonder what would happen to my spam levels if I start accepting  > non-backtranslateables?   A I've heard of folks rejecting mail from non-back-translatable IP  C addresses as an anti-spam measure.  Obviously, if someone spoofs a  I domain, the address will not translate back to the domain name.  But, of  G course, there are LOTS of legitimate reasons for sending email from an  B IP address which does not translate back to the domain name.  For C example, one might be sending email from computer A but want it to  E arrive on computer B.  Since an IP address can only translate to one  H name, but several names can translate to 1 IP address (CNAME), rejected G mail from non-back-translatable IP addresses means rejecting mail from  2 all CNAMEs.  Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.  I I (still) have some static public IP addresses leased from an ISP.  They  I don't back-translate to my domain.  By default, the ISP doesn't even set  F up reverse-DNS entries.  At first, I thought this was a bad idea, but D then I thought it was a good idea.  After all, there are legitimate F reasons for having CNAMEs.  The reverse-DNS entry makes one look more  official than the other.  ; Also, with more and more people using dynamic IPs, more and < more---legitimate---addresses will not be back-translatable.  / > I wonder if I'm rejecting a lot of offers for  > work?!  E Maybe.  I've never had anti-spam measures in my email addresses.  (I  H thought about it after I got a pay-per-bit ISDN connection at home, but E never got around to it, and now since I am moving to a flat-rate DSL  I connection, cost is not an issue.  When not at home, I don't have to pay  H so I don't care.)  When I was in academia, I was a frequent contributor F to several newsgroups.  Some of the unsolicited emails I got were for G job offers.  I didn't take any up since they were either contract work  < or in the U.S., but that wouldn't bother many folks here in  comp.os.vms.  :-)   G Excluding Info-VAX (which is just a substitute for comp.os.vms; I hope  F to have NNTP access again soon), I have gotten an average of 50 or so H emails per day for the past few years.  Perhaps 15% are spam.  With VMS I MAIL and HEADERS instead of TOPHEADERS, I normally just page through the  F messages.  It takes less than a second to recognise a message as spam E and hit D.  (Usually I can recognise them from the Subj: header, but  C paging through and deleting them is quicker than marking them then  H select/mark then del/all.)  I don't think it's worth the trouble to set B up anti-spam measures, and of course by doing so one can miss the ; occasional message which looks like spam but in fact isn't.   C I don't think one can say that "if the sender is legitimate, he can D decipher my anti-spam stuff".  Of course, if the sender really wantsB something from you, maybe that's true.  But if he wants to make an% offer, maybe it's not worth his time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:43:28 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem / Message-ID: <3E5BC75B.14CF5218@vl.videotron.ca>    Don Sykes wrote:J > Is what you're suggesting described in the TCPIP USer's Guide? I've goneI > to that many times, but it's still confusing to me. Can you point me to  > the chapter & verse?  N Well, dumping the TCPIP> bind config and going to the UNIX files was suggested6 to me by other folks in this newsgroup some time ago.    But...  U In the TCPIP management reference manual, section  "5.1.2 Common BIND Configurations"   N It lists the files which contain the "real" configuration. (The TCPIP services* converts its own config into those files).   Then, later on:  ##0 5.2.1 Navigating Two Different BIND EnvironmentsK This section summarizes the differences between the UCX BIND implementation 
 and BIND 8.1. L It is important to remember that in BIND 8.1, name servers are configured byG editing a text configuration file. The use of this file is described in  Section 5.3.L Compaq recommends, but does not require, that you use the configuration fileC to set up BIND. You can continue using the TCPIP$CONFIG and the SET B CONFIGURATION BIND commands to set up your BIND environment as youJ did with previous releases of this product. The term UCX BIND in Table 51R describes the previous configuration method even though this method is still valid in the current release.  ##   A little further down: ##D You must be consistent when making changes to your BIND environment.J If you make changes by editing the configuration file, you should continue to make changes in that manner. 7 If you revert to the UCX BIND configuration method (SET , CONFIGURATION BIND and CONVERT/CONFIGURATION> BIND commands), any changes you made to the configuration file (TCPIP$BIND.CONF) are lost. ? If you continue to use the SET CONFIGURATION BIND commands, you ; must always enter the CONVERT/CONFIGURATION BIND command in & order for your changes to take effect. ##  M I found the following of help in understanding the format of the config files 5 above/beyond what the Digital documentation provides: 3 http://www.goldencode.com/atlos2/notes/dns/dns.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:31:07 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem . Message-ID: <3E5BC476.9A43C92@vl.videotron.ca>   Don Sykes wrote:I > Ah ha. But what does a bloke like me do to accept mail from people like E > you while rejecting mail from made up domains? (thinking out loud)I A > wonder what would happen to my spam levels if I start accepting G > non-backtranslateables? I wonder if I'm rejecting a lot of offers for  > work?!  H When one mentions non-backtranslatables, does this mean that there is noG reverse lookup for A records, or that there is no reverse lookup for MX 	 records ?   K My curent IP assigned by the ISP has a domain name assigned to it. It isn't H pretty. Is there some logic used to determine that this domain name is aK dynamic one that is just a subscriber of an ISP versus the domain name of a  real company ?  N Yes, a human brain can usually look at the ugly domain name and conclude it isN that assigned "randomly" by the ISP to subscribers. But how does logic/program decide ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:35:08 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>  Subject: Re: Help. BIND Problem + Message-ID: <3E5BF060.7D59377A@pacbell.net>   E Thanks JF. Nice pointers. I'll have to read thru them soon - after my   office move, going on right now.   --     Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)     JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Don Sykes wrote:L > > Is what you're suggesting described in the TCPIP USer's Guide? I've goneK > > to that many times, but it's still confusing to me. Can you point me to  > > the chapter & verse? > P > Well, dumping the TCPIP> bind config and going to the UNIX files was suggested7 > to me by other folks in this newsgroup some time ago.  >  > But... > W > In the TCPIP management reference manual, section  "5.1.2 Common BIND Configurations"  > P > It lists the files which contain the "real" configuration. (The TCPIP services, > converts its own config into those files). >  > Then, later on:  > ##2 > 5.2.1 Navigating Two Different BIND EnvironmentsM > This section summarizes the differences between the UCX BIND implementation  > and BIND 8.1. N > It is important to remember that in BIND 8.1, name servers are configured byI > editing a text configuration file. The use of this file is described in  > Section 5.3.N > Compaq recommends, but does not require, that you use the configuration fileE > to set up BIND. You can continue using the TCPIP$CONFIG and the SET D > CONFIGURATION BIND commands to set up your BIND environment as youL > did with previous releases of this product. The term UCX BIND in Table 51T > describes the previous configuration method even though this method is still valid > in the current release.  > ## >  > A little further down: > ##F > You must be consistent when making changes to your BIND environment.L > If you make changes by editing the configuration file, you should continue! > to make changes in that manner. 9 > If you revert to the UCX BIND configuration method (SET . > CONFIGURATION BIND and CONVERT/CONFIGURATION@ > BIND commands), any changes you made to the configuration file > (TCPIP$BIND.CONF) are lost. A > If you continue to use the SET CONFIGURATION BIND commands, you = > must always enter the CONVERT/CONFIGURATION BIND command in ( > order for your changes to take effect. > ## > O > I found the following of help in understanding the format of the config files 7 > above/beyond what the Digital documentation provides: 5 > http://www.goldencode.com/atlos2/notes/dns/dns.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:14:50 +0100 7 From: Jan van Mastbergen <jan.van.mastbergen@planet.nl> & Subject: Re: Hobbyist CD in old drives( Message-ID: <3E5BF8EA.5010803@planet.nl>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Steve Young wrote: >  >>  Hello everyone,  >>H >>  I have determined that part of the problem with my CD-ROM may be theI >>fact that it cannot read CD-Rs... it can read any other silver CD I put I >>in it fine, however it has a 0% success rating on CD-Rs (it was made in M >>1992).  The hobbyist CD comes on a silver CD, but I was wondering if anyone C >>else had had problems getting it to work in pre-CD-R era CD-ROMs?  >>H >>  It could be that since the hobbyist CD is made in such small numbersM >>(for CD pressings, average volume is tremendous) that it is a lower-quality I >>pressing that this testy old drive doesn't like.  Can anyone confirm or  >>deny my theory?  >  > F > Well, confirmation implies evidence or proof, where denial does not. > C > Be that as it may (and it may very well be), the Hobbyist CDs are 0 > mass-produced, not individually burned, AFAIK. > I > FWIW, my CD-R drive choked on the Q4-2002 documentation ODS CDs, and my H > Toshiba CD-ROM in my little Alpha loged 38 errors trying to read them. >   B Think I have a similar situation at hand. I am tying to restore a F microVAX 3100 model 20 (16Mb, 2x RZ24, TZ30) to which I added a RRD42 I that was recognised by the boot firmware but could not load the hobbyist  F CD (VMS 7.2 version). After cleaning etc. I noticed it could at least 6 continue to spin an audio cd but still not the VMS CD.G When I made a plain copy of the hobbyist CD using a Plextor 16/10/40A,  D the Plextools utility and an Imation 700Mb CR-R (silver) at reduced 6 speed (8X) all was fine. It is installing as we speak.  G Little question on my part: the Montagar CD is supposed to be bootable  G but is does not do that on my machine. Just an impressive dump of SCSI  I parameters. What saved me is that the previous owner gave me a TK50 with  . standalone backup (5.5), which I am using now.K Would there have been a way out of this with just the CD and a PC with W2K?    Regards, Jan van Mastbergen    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:45:25 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue 2 Message-ID: <yRO6a.454$945.1891@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  & Does form ONE specify a /SETUP module?  If so what do you have in there? Send a SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL ONE   K Problem possibly comes from you top margin as defined in the form, or stuff < that you send to the printer via a setup module in the form.   --   OpenVMS 7.3-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0    Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  G "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: # 3E5AB5CB.E9783418@tilgroup.co.nz... L > How can an Extra Page Feed be suppress for Dot matix printer via VMS print > Queue. > K > The  application, we use,  spools its print via a Win 2000 box being used  as aL > print server. Crystal reports compiles the file and then sends it of to anE > advanced server (pathworks) shared printer queue on the  VMS V7.2-1  system. H > Printer Queues are configured  with LAT using a terminal server with a serial > connection to the printer. > J > Printers are Oki 521 with serial interface in espon fx emulation. If one printsJ > to it directly from the print server box via a parallel connection there is no K > extra page feed.  When printing via the VMS queues to additional problems  occur  > 1 > 1) Printing starts 2 lines lower that it should J > 2) and extra blank page and a bit is ejected leave in the printer out of line' > for the next print and wasting paper.  >  >  > Example Config? > Terminal queue DP2, idle, on BEANS::LTA137:, mounted form ONE B >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=ONE) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]; >   /PROCESSOR=LATSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN  /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) >  > D > Terminal: _LTA137:    Device_Type: LA210         Owner: SYMBIONT_7@ >                                               Username: SYSTEM > D >    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width: 511      Parity: None2 >    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   99 >  > Terminal Characteristics: G >    Interactive        No Echo            No Typeahead       No Escape A >    No Hostsync        TTsync             Lowercase          Tab F >    No Wrap            Hardcopy           No Remote          EightbitE >    No Broadcast       No Readsync        Form               Fulldup D >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupG >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed I >    No Commsync        No Line Editing    Insert editing     No Fallback H >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruH >    No Syspassword     SIXEL Graphics     No Soft Characters No Printer PortK >    Numeric Keypad     No ANSI_CRT        No Regis           No Block_mode I >    No Advanced_video  No Edit_mode       No DEC_CRT         No DEC_CRT2 K >    No DEC_CRT3        No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No Ansi_Color  >    VMS Style Input >  > Device spooled to _DSA0: > J > We have tried suggestions found on the VMS wizard site, but have not had any 
 > success. > > > The most common suggestion has been add  "<ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\"8 > to the reset command. This has not worked in out case. > C > Can anyone help with some suggestions of how this  problem may be 	 overcome?  > L > So far my web searches have just highlighted that I am not alone with this sort
 > of problem.  > 
 > Many thanks  >  > JJ >  > --B > ________________________________________________________________
 > John Jansen   > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzB > ________________________________________________________________ >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:31:13 +1300 * From: John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue . Message-ID: <3E5BC481.972052B9@tilgroup.co.nz>   Thanks for your reply.   Forms Definition is 9 Form name                            Number   Description 9 ---------                            ------   ----------- > ONE                                       1   ONE Default Form7     /LENGTH=99 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=ONE /WIDTH=511    Also get a similar problem with   6 LINEFLOW                                 10   LINEFLOWF     /LENGTH=66 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=LINEFLOW /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=512  O The actual physical form we use on most of the printer is a 81 ch wide (10 cpi)  and 51 line (8.5 inch paper)  P An oversize for is defined to cater for most actual forms that may be printed soB our users can switch the paper and not worry about changing forms.   JJ   --@ ________________________________________________________________ John Jansen  E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nz@ ________________________________________________________________   Syltrem wrote:  ( > Does form ONE specify a /SETUP module?" > If so what do you have in there?! > Send a SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL ONE  > M > Problem possibly comes from you top margin as defined in the form, or stuff > > that you send to the printer via a setup module in the form. >  > -- >  > OpenVMS 7.3-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0  > 	 > Syltrem K > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) : > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > I > "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: % > 3E5AB5CB.E9783418@tilgroup.co.nz... N > > How can an Extra Page Feed be suppress for Dot matix printer via VMS print
 > > Queue. > > M > > The  application, we use,  spools its print via a Win 2000 box being used  > as aN > > print server. Crystal reports compiles the file and then sends it of to anG > > advanced server (pathworks) shared printer queue on the  VMS V7.2-1 	 > system. J > > Printer Queues are configured  with LAT using a terminal server with a > serial > > connection to the printer. > > L > > Printers are Oki 521 with serial interface in espon fx emulation. If one > printsL > > to it directly from the print server box via a parallel connection there > is no M > > extra page feed.  When printing via the VMS queues to additional problems  > occur  > > 3 > > 1) Printing starts 2 lines lower that it should L > > 2) and extra blank page and a bit is ejected leave in the printer out of > line) > > for the next print and wasting paper.  > >  > >  > > Example ConfigA > > Terminal queue DP2, idle, on BEANS::LTA137:, mounted form ONE D > >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=ONE) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]= > >   /PROCESSOR=LATSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN  > /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > >  > > F > > Terminal: _LTA137:    Device_Type: LA210         Owner: SYMBIONT_7B > >                                               Username: SYSTEM > > F > >    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width: 511      Parity: None4 > >    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   99 > >  > > Terminal Characteristics: I > >    Interactive        No Echo            No Typeahead       No Escape C > >    No Hostsync        TTsync             Lowercase          Tab H > >    No Wrap            Hardcopy           No Remote          EightbitG > >    No Broadcast       No Readsync        Form               Fulldup F > >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupI > >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed K > >    No Commsync        No Line Editing    Insert editing     No Fallback J > >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruJ > >    No Syspassword     SIXEL Graphics     No Soft Characters No Printer > PortM > >    Numeric Keypad     No ANSI_CRT        No Regis           No Block_mode K > >    No Advanced_video  No Edit_mode       No DEC_CRT         No DEC_CRT2 M > >    No DEC_CRT3        No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No Ansi_Color  > >    VMS Style Input > >  > > Device spooled to _DSA0: > > L > > We have tried suggestions found on the VMS wizard site, but have not had > any  > > success. > > @ > > The most common suggestion has been add  "<ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\": > > to the reset command. This has not worked in out case. > > E > > Can anyone help with some suggestions of how this  problem may be  > overcome?  > > N > > So far my web searches have just highlighted that I am not alone with this > sort > > of problem.  > >  > > Many thanks  > >  > > JJ > >  > > --D > > ________________________________________________________________ > > John Jansen " > > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzD > > ________________________________________________________________ > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:07:29 -0500 * From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue 2 Message-ID: <u2Q6a.463$945.1912@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  L With these forms, I don;t see why you would have 2 blank lines printed at heL top of each page, unless of course there are linefeeds in the report itself.  J Have a look at the file you application generates (SHOW ENTRY/FILE). MaybeK the printer driver on Windows generates stuff that should not belong there? G If the reports are text only you can try defining a "generic/text only" 8 printer on windows instead of a Okidata or Epson driver.   --   OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0    Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) 8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  G "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: # 3E5BC481.972052B9@tilgroup.co.nz...  > Thanks for your reply. >  > Forms Definition is ; > Form name                            Number   Description ; > ---------                            ------   ----------- @ > ONE                                       1   ONE Default Form9 >     /LENGTH=99 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=ONE /WIDTH=511  > ! > Also get a similar problem with  > 8 > LINEFLOW                                 10   LINEFLOWH >     /LENGTH=66 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=LINEFLOW /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=512 > L > The actual physical form we use on most of the printer is a 81 ch wide (10 cpi) > and 51 line (8.5 inch paper) > G > An oversize for is defined to cater for most actual forms that may be 
 printed soD > our users can switch the paper and not worry about changing forms. >  > JJ >  > --B > ________________________________________________________________
 > John Jansen   > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzB > ________________________________________________________________ >  > Syltrem wrote: > * > > Does form ONE specify a /SETUP module?$ > > If so what do you have in there?# > > Send a SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL ONE  > > I > > Problem possibly comes from you top margin as defined in the form, or  stuff @ > > that you send to the printer via a setup module in the form. > >  > > -- > > ! > > OpenVMS 7.3-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0  > >  > > Syltrem C > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en 	 franais) < > > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > > K > > "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: ' > > 3E5AB5CB.E9783418@tilgroup.co.nz... J > > > How can an Extra Page Feed be suppress for Dot matix printer via VMS print  > > > Queue. > > > J > > > The  application, we use,  spools its print via a Win 2000 box being used > > as aJ > > > print server. Crystal reports compiles the file and then sends it of to an I > > > advanced server (pathworks) shared printer queue on the  VMS V7.2-1  > > system. L > > > Printer Queues are configured  with LAT using a terminal server with a
 > > serial  > > > connection to the printer. > > > J > > > Printers are Oki 521 with serial interface in espon fx emulation. If one 
 > > printsH > > > to it directly from the print server box via a parallel connection there 	 > > is no F > > > extra page feed.  When printing via the VMS queues to additional problems	 > > occur  > > > 5 > > > 1) Printing starts 2 lines lower that it should K > > > 2) and extra blank page and a bit is ejected leave in the printer out  of > > line+ > > > for the next print and wasting paper.  > > >  > > >  > > > Example ConfigC > > > Terminal queue DP2, idle, on BEANS::LTA137:, mounted form ONE F > > >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=ONE) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]? > > >   /PROCESSOR=LATSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN  > > /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > > >  > > > H > > > Terminal: _LTA137:    Device_Type: LA210         Owner: SYMBIONT_7D > > >                                               Username: SYSTEM > > > H > > >    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width: 511      Parity: None6 > > >    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   99 > > >  > > > Terminal Characteristics: K > > >    Interactive        No Echo            No Typeahead       No Escape E > > >    No Hostsync        TTsync             Lowercase          Tab J > > >    No Wrap            Hardcopy           No Remote          EightbitI > > >    No Broadcast       No Readsync        Form               Fulldup H > > >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupK > > >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed D > > >    No Commsync        No Line Editing    Insert editing     No FallbackL > > >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruL > > >    No Syspassword     SIXEL Graphics     No Soft Characters No Printer > > PortD > > >    Numeric Keypad     No ANSI_CRT        No Regis           No
 Block_modeD > > >    No Advanced_video  No Edit_mode       No DEC_CRT         No DEC_CRT2D > > >    No DEC_CRT3        No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No
 Ansi_Color > > >    VMS Style Input > > >  > > > Device spooled to _DSA0: > > > J > > > We have tried suggestions found on the VMS wizard site, but have not had  > > any  > > > success. > > > B > > > The most common suggestion has been add  "<ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\"< > > > to the reset command. This has not worked in out case. > > > G > > > Can anyone help with some suggestions of how this  problem may be 
 > > overcome?  > > > K > > > So far my web searches have just highlighted that I am not alone with  this > > sort > > > of problem.  > > >  > > > Many thanks  > > >  > > > JJ > > >  > > > --F > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > John Jansen $ > > > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzF > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:57:11 +1300 * From: John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue . Message-ID: <3E5C10E8.F4103FDF@tilgroup.co.nz>   HI, N Thank you for your thoughts. If I examine the spooled file using EDT the first< character is an escape and the last a printer reset command.  K If I decode the printer hex dump for the same file the first character is a N <CR>  (additional)  and the last 2 additional characters are <CR> <FF>. Theses follow the printer reset.   L To me, it appears that something  is causing the VMS printing process to add0 these extra characters, but I have no idea what.   Regards    JJ  @ ________________________________________________________________ John Jansen  E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nz@ ________________________________________________________________     Syltrem wrote:  N > With these forms, I don;t see why you would have 2 blank lines printed at heN > top of each page, unless of course there are linefeeds in the report itself. > L > Have a look at the file you application generates (SHOW ENTRY/FILE). MaybeM > the printer driver on Windows generates stuff that should not belong there? I > If the reports are text only you can try defining a "generic/text only" : > printer on windows instead of a Okidata or Epson driver. >  > -- >  > OpenVMS 7.2-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0  > 	 > Syltrem K > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) : > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > I > "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: % > 3E5BC481.972052B9@tilgroup.co.nz...  > > Thanks for your reply. > >  > > Forms Definition is = > > Form name                            Number   Description = > > ---------                            ------   ----------- B > > ONE                                       1   ONE Default Form; > >     /LENGTH=99 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=ONE /WIDTH=511  > > # > > Also get a similar problem with  > > : > > LINEFLOW                                 10   LINEFLOWJ > >     /LENGTH=66 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=6) /STOCK=LINEFLOW /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=512 > > N > > The actual physical form we use on most of the printer is a 81 ch wide (10 > cpi)  > > and 51 line (8.5 inch paper) > > I > > An oversize for is defined to cater for most actual forms that may be  > printed soF > > our users can switch the paper and not worry about changing forms. > >  > > JJ > >  > > --D > > ________________________________________________________________ > > John Jansen " > > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzD > > ________________________________________________________________ > >  > > Syltrem wrote: > > , > > > Does form ONE specify a /SETUP module?& > > > If so what do you have in there?% > > > Send a SHOW QUEUE/FORM/FULL ONE  > > > K > > > Problem possibly comes from you top margin as defined in the form, or  > stuff B > > > that you send to the printer via a setup module in the form. > > >  > > > -- > > > # > > > OpenVMS 7.3-1, Oracle 8.1.6.0  > > > 
 > > > Syltrem E > > > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en  > franais) > > > > To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address > > > M > > > "John Jansen" <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> a crit dans le message de news: ) > > > 3E5AB5CB.E9783418@tilgroup.co.nz... L > > > > How can an Extra Page Feed be suppress for Dot matix printer via VMS > print  > > > > Queue. > > > > L > > > > The  application, we use,  spools its print via a Win 2000 box being > used
 > > > as aL > > > > print server. Crystal reports compiles the file and then sends it of > to an K > > > > advanced server (pathworks) shared printer queue on the  VMS V7.2-1 
 > > > system. N > > > > Printer Queues are configured  with LAT using a terminal server with a > > > serial" > > > > connection to the printer. > > > > L > > > > Printers are Oki 521 with serial interface in espon fx emulation. If > one  > > > printsJ > > > > to it directly from the print server box via a parallel connection > there  > > > is no H > > > > extra page feed.  When printing via the VMS queues to additional
 > problems > > > occur  > > > > 7 > > > > 1) Printing starts 2 lines lower that it should M > > > > 2) and extra blank page and a bit is ejected leave in the printer out  > of
 > > > line- > > > > for the next print and wasting paper.  > > > >  > > > >  > > > > Example ConfigE > > > > Terminal queue DP2, idle, on BEANS::LTA137:, mounted form ONE H > > > >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=ONE) Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]A > > > >   /PROCESSOR=LATSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN  > > > /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE) > > > >  > > > > J > > > > Terminal: _LTA137:    Device_Type: LA210         Owner: SYMBIONT_7F > > > >                                               Username: SYSTEM > > > > J > > > >    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width: 511      Parity: None8 > > > >    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   99 > > > > ! > > > > Terminal Characteristics: M > > > >    Interactive        No Echo            No Typeahead       No Escape G > > > >    No Hostsync        TTsync             Lowercase          Tab L > > > >    No Wrap            Hardcopy           No Remote          EightbitK > > > >    No Broadcast       No Readsync        Form               Fulldup J > > > >    No Modem           No Local_echo      No Autobaud        HangupM > > > >    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed F > > > >    No Commsync        No Line Editing    Insert editing     No
 > FallbackN > > > >    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruN > > > >    No Syspassword     SIXEL Graphics     No Soft Characters No Printer
 > > > PortF > > > >    Numeric Keypad     No ANSI_CRT        No Regis           No > Block_modeF > > > >    No Advanced_video  No Edit_mode       No DEC_CRT         No
 > DEC_CRT2F > > > >    No DEC_CRT3        No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No > Ansi_Color > > > >    VMS Style Input > > > >   > > > > Device spooled to _DSA0: > > > > L > > > > We have tried suggestions found on the VMS wizard site, but have not > had 	 > > > any  > > > > success. > > > > D > > > > The most common suggestion has been add  "<ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\"> > > > > to the reset command. This has not worked in out case. > > > > I > > > > Can anyone help with some suggestions of how this  problem may be  > > > overcome?  > > > > M > > > > So far my web searches have just highlighted that I am not alone with  > this
 > > > sort > > > > of problem.  > > > >  > > > > Many thanks  > > > > 
 > > > > JJ > > > > 
 > > > > --H > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > John Jansen & > > > > E-mail  JJansen@tilgroup.co.nzH > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > >  > >  > >  > >    --   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:00:52 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue ' Message-ID: <3E5C2DE4.AD0210FA@fsi.net>    John Jansen wrote: >  > HI, P > Thank you for your thoughts. If I examine the spooled file using EDT the first> > character is an escape and the last a printer reset command.  H That may be the problem right there. HP's escape sequences don't conformG to the print symbionts' interpretation of the ANSI standards for escape 
 sequences.  5 I believe the answer may be found in the OpenVMS FAQ: 5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html    Check it out...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:21:55 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) , Subject: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251421.16842f38@posting.google.com>   , http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030225/255662_1.html  # HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results   Tuesday February 25, 4:01 pm ET   B PALO ALTO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 25, 2003--Hewlett-Packard Company (NYSE:HPQ - News) C o  Non-GAAP EPS $0.29, up 21% Sequentially, $0.02 Cents Higher Than '    Analyst Consensus Estimates of $0.27 & o  GAAP EPS $0.24, up 85% Sequentially1 o  Revenue of $17.9 Billion, Down 1% Sequentially 4 o  Gross Margin of 26.5%, up 0.6 Points Sequentially> o  Non-GAAP Operating Profit $1.1 Billion, up 25% Sequentially; o  GAAP Operating Profit $879 Million, up 107% Sequentially C o  Personal Systems Reports $33 Million Profit vs. $68 Million Loss ;    in Q4;  Enterprise Systems Cuts Loss by 36% Sequentially 7 o  Affirms Q2 Consensus Estimates of $0.27 Non-GAAP EPS    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:03:55 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results/ Message-ID: <3E5C206A.261C47D6@vl.videotron.ca>    Keith Parris wrote:  > . > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030225/255662_1.html  H Any disccusions about individual product lines are doing ? Is enterpriseM computing picking up ? (does enterprise computing include wintel servers like  they did in compaq) ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:59:06 -0500 = From: "HP World Conf & Expo - Encompass" <KilleenJ@toast.net> G Subject: Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo / Message-ID: <v5nmb2i6b35u24@corp.supernews.com>    Fixed    --   Jeff Killeen   All Info: http://www.Killeen.cc   ? ---------------------------------------------------------------   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E5AEC3E.F006358F@fsi.net...  > HP-ETS 2003 wrote: > > B > > http://www.encompassus.org/events/hpworld2003/hpworld2003.html > > J > > Realize The Power of Your HP Computing Investment in a Brand New WorldK > > The new HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference & Expo is not  onlyL > > the largest annual gathering of IT professionals employing HP solutions,K > > services and technologies, it's now the most comprehensive. Produced by  the J > > Encompass and Interex user groups in partnership with HP, the five-dayJ > > conference delivers training seminars, tutorials and sessions, panels,G > > networking opportunities and an exposition covering the breadth and  depth of > > the expanded HP portfolio.L > > HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference & Expo will take placeJ > > August 11-15, 2003, in Atlanta, Georgia. The event will bring together the I > > consolidated resources, experience and collective knowledge of HP and  its K > > official user communities to deliver the best training, peer networking  and D > > new product showcase available to HP customers. In light of thisK > > consolidation, HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference & Expo  willG > > replace the traditional Encompass-sponsored HP Enterprise Technical  > > Symposium (HP-ETS).  > I > In the submissions area, item 3, "Content area" still lacks any mention 
 > of OpenVMS.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:54:14 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) G Subject: Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251454.75cf527e@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5AEC3E.F006358F@fsi.net>...I > In the submissions area, item 3, "Content area" still lacks any mention 
 > of OpenVMS.   A The list of topics at http://www.hpworld.com/ has been updated to F include OpenVMS and Tru64.  The Call For Participation area may take a1 bit longer, but there is a form in place there at D http://www.hpworld.com/conference/hpworld2003/cfphome/index.html for@ you to ask them to e-mail you just as soon as the info is ready.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:02:53 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> G Subject: Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo ' Message-ID: <3E5C2E5D.48E1CCD6@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3E5AEC3E.F006358F@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > K > > In the submissions area, item 3, "Content area" still lacks any mention  > > of OpenVMS.  > L > If there were, would you complain that the decision had been "kept secret"% > while they fussed with web pages ?    E I found that while researching the information I'd need to collect in  order to submit a session.  ( > Personally I would rather have advance, > notice to investigate travel arrangements.  1 A cup of warm cocoa might mellow you out a bit...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:07:26 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> G Subject: Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo ' Message-ID: <3E5C2F6E.E6258711@fsi.net>    Dave Gudewicz wrote: > L > Too bad this couldn't have been the "new" HP World from day 1, or whenever) > Interex and Encompass merged the event. I > When people heard the news, they went to the web page and found several ' > items missing, VMS being one of them. N > I know its tough getting all the ducks in order, but often times it seems to( > be the same story over and over again.  G Dave raises a good issue. We seem to keep making new mistakes each year D while still repeating old ones from years past. We should be getting better at this, not worse.  0 Have we lost our ability to learn by experience?  F ...or do we need a multi-million dollar budget to pay some over-pricedG suits to tells us what we did wrong in the past before we can learn the C lessons taught by experience? (...which if we learned it on our own H would save us multiple millions that we could then devote to marketing.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:07:54 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> G Subject: Re: HP World 2003 Solutions and Technology Conference and Expo ' Message-ID: <3E5C2F8A.C520B963@fsi.net>   ' HP World Conf & Expo - Encompass wrote:  >  > Fixed    Muchas gracias!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:25:50 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> % Subject: HP's latest quartely results H Message-ID: <ybR6a.80796$Zr%.12415@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2003/q1.html?mtx s=corp&mtxb=2&mtxl=1    B They forgot to mention that HP maintained it's leading position in' OpenVMS sales over all the competition.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:31:37 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: HP's latest quartely results / Message-ID: <3E5C18DA.9CDCACCA@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote:  > H > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2003/q1.html?mtx > s=corp&mtxb=2&mtxl=1 > I BBC world news tonight said "The world'd largets computer maker announced  today its financial results..."   A I though it was still IBM that was the biggest computer company ?    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:34:39 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) Q Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251434.45fdb9a5@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5AEA6C.53488E89@fsi.net>... > Rob Young wrote:_ > > In article <3E57F0CC.59AA8D46@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: I > > > In *MY* mind, there are two major advantages to using RAID-1 in the  > > > HSx's instead of HBVS: > > > M > > > o Eliminates the shadow-set merge problem when a node exits the cluster G > > > ungracefully or fails to properly DISMOUNT a shadow-set during an  > > > orderly shutdown. I > >         This isn't a problem if using HSJ kit.  Depending on how risk G > >         averse your situation , it may not be a big problem even if  > >         merging.H > The problem cited was seen using HSJ50s and HSG80s between circa. 1998G > and the present day, inclusive. I have seen no mitigation of this any  > time in recent history.   E [HSJ|HSD][30|40|50|80] controllers have MSCP Volume Shadowing Assists @ (Write History Logging, in particular), and you should see briefF Mini-Merges on those controllers.  If you don't, that's a problem thatB should be reported as a bug.  I haven't seen problems in this area= since the 6.2 / CLUSIO patch kit days (except when people set E SHADOW_MAX_COPY to zero everywhere and prevent the merge threads from C running and the write history log entries get re-used, overwritten, 0 and thus lost, and a full merge is then needed).  C HSG[60|80]s don't have Write History Logging (at least not yet), so ! you'all see full merges on those.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:53:14 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set ' Message-ID: <3E5C2C1A.32753D4E@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5AEA6C.53488E89@fsi.net>... > > Rob Young wrote:a > > > In article <3E57F0CC.59AA8D46@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: K > > > > In *MY* mind, there are two major advantages to using RAID-1 in the  > > > > HSx's instead of HBVS: > > > > O > > > > o Eliminates the shadow-set merge problem when a node exits the cluster I > > > > ungracefully or fails to properly DISMOUNT a shadow-set during an  > > > > orderly shutdown. K > > >         This isn't a problem if using HSJ kit.  Depending on how risk I > > >         averse your situation , it may not be a big problem even if  > > >         merging.J > > The problem cited was seen using HSJ50s and HSG80s between circa. 1998I > > and the present day, inclusive. I have seen no mitigation of this any  > > time in recent history.  > G > [HSJ|HSD][30|40|50|80] controllers have MSCP Volume Shadowing Assists B > (Write History Logging, in particular), and you should see briefH > Mini-Merges on those controllers.  If you don't, that's a problem thatD > should be reported as a bug.  I haven't seen problems in this area? > since the 6.2 / CLUSIO patch kit days (except when people set G > SHADOW_MAX_COPY to zero everywhere and prevent the merge threads from E > running and the write history log entries get re-used, overwritten, 2 > and thus lost, and a full merge is then needed). > E > HSG[60|80]s don't have Write History Logging (at least not yet), so # > you'all see full merges on those.    How 'bout HSZ80?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:52:01 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> Q Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set ' Message-ID: <3E5C2BD1.1B849E6F@fsi.net>    Rob Young wrote: > ] > In article <3E5AEA6C.53488E89@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Rob Young wrote: >  > >>` > >> In article <3E57F0CC.59AA8D46@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> >  > M > >> > o Eliminates the host I/O load associated with shadow-copy and -merge. J > >> > For example, on a three-node Alpha 8400 cluster, shadow-copy of 8GBM > >> > volumes was taking between five and eight hours based on what else was L > >> > happening in the cluster. Merges could runs for weeks. Mirror-copy onM > >> > the HSJs took just short of 52 minutes fairly consistently when you do 2 > >> > them one at a time per dual-redundant pair. > >>F > >>         This is highly storage dependent.  My 8 GByte full copies$ > >>         take around 15 minutes. > > 6 > > Which HSxes are you using? What firmware revision? > >  > ) >         Who said anything about HS kit?    Rob Young wrote: > [snip]0 >         This isn't a problem if using HSJ kit.   Are there any other questions?   > & > >> The copy back is taking advantageP > >>         of DCD , no IO load on the systems (total IO to complete copy?  150L > >>         or so) using triple shadowed members.  With VMS 7.3+ and shadowL > >>         mini-copy, very large volumes take a minute or two to synch up. > > L > > ...except for those situations where niether mini-merge nor mini-copy is+ > > possible, such as the ones in question.  > >  > & >         Sure.  Buy a bigger engine.   8 What's the "biggest engine" currently offered in an HSx?    > Or ... serve your storage backM >         via MSCP using HSJ kit.  mini-merge via MSCP.  How would mini-merge  >         not be possible?   See the DSDRIVER code.  K > >> > The single disadvantage is that there is no supported way to split a M > >> > mirror-set from within a batch (BACKUP) job. There once was with HSZs: E > >> > HSZPAD$SCSITERM, the program behind the SET HOST/SCSI command.  > >>K > >>         That isn't the biggest disadvantage.  The biggest disadvantage O > >>         is availability.  That LUN is on a single controller or controller L > >>         pair.  The controller pair takes a hit, you are shot... or moreH > >>         common, the drive fails to failover OR the RAIDset fails to8 > >>         rebuild.  This is always good to dredge up: > >>Y > >> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37362F41.D486B822%40winternet.com&output=gplain  > >>K > >> Absolutely.  You simply can not trust mirrored controllers to maintain = > >> the data as much as you can host-based volume shadowing.  > > : > > In my experience, I've seen no appreciable difference. > >  > F >         And yet, if anyone is keeping count 4 or 5 of us here in cov >         over the years  C I think that about sums it up: "4 or 5 of us" and "over the years". H Compare that top frequency of merges induced by reboots (intentional andH otherwise) and I think you see my point in a different light (and again, it *IS* *MY* point - YMMV).   L >         have had just the opposite experience.  The problem with dependingD >         on larger RAIDsets is if you take a hit, you may be in forH >         a very long downtime, not just slowdown.  Ask Ed Wilts.  I saw@ >         a 36+ hour downtime myself to restore a large RAIDset.  = Now, go back and search Google groups for posts from me dated D 27-Oct-2001 through about 15-Nov-2001. We had 300+GB of data (mostlyD stored on HSG RAIDsets) trashed by bad 64-bit PCI riser cards in ourE GS160s. Then, talk to me about restore times... (we were down for two  weeks).   G > >> I have personally seen a case where a single bad drive caused BOTH L > >> controllers in a dual-redundant configuration to crash.  The drive hungH > >> the SCSI bus.  When the first controller detected this, it tried toJ > >> reset the bus.  When it wouldn't reset, it assumed the controller wasL > >> culprit and crashed itself, causing the drive to fail over to the otherD > >> controller, which promptly crashed, until I finally intervened. > > B > > We were an alpha-test site for MTI's attempt at redundant RAIDI > > controllers. Suffice it to say, success was minimal, and the failures  > > were spectacular.  > > H > > HSxes, by contrast, have been rock-solid for me for as long as I canH > > remember. I've yet to see a pair screw up for reasons not related to > > SysAdmin error.  > > E >         HSJ have been good to me.  I feel much better though having G >         my databases in 2 datacenters.  Currently, the only way to do " >         that is host based RAID.  F I'm sure a lotta folks would feel as you do. Your site and others like; yours are the great exception, of course, and not the rule.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:38:06 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com># Subject: RE: I feel that might help 0 Message-ID: <01C2DCC2.748E1570@sulfer.icius.com>  F Reported to XMission.com, his ISP and Networksolutions, his registrar.   Shane    -----Original Message-----" From: Dave [mailto:dave@black.com]( Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: I feel that might help     * WE MUST COME TOGETHER AND TAKE THESE SITES OFF THE INTERNET!    NO NAZI  NO WHITE POWER NO HATE    http://www.nazichess.com http://www.kkk.org" http://www.twelvearyannations.com/ http://www.naawp.com/ ! http://www.americannaziparty.com/ # http://www.unitedskins.com/home.htm   / Hit them wit letters telling them we don't need  nor want them!    Fill their mail boxes with junk!   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:19:40 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: RE: I feel that might help (spam)3 Message-ID: <DoGZDUpmw3CP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C2DCC2.748E1570@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: H > Reported to XMission.com, his ISP and Networksolutions, his registrar. >  > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----$ > From: Dave [mailto:dave@black.com]* > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 8:23 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! > Subject: I feel that might help    <snip>  < Well here on DECUServe the message you quote did not appear.B It appears to have been sent via Info-VAX rather than comp.os.vms.@ Perhaps there was some spam protection suppressing it and we did/ not get the message (until you repeated it :-).   ! Or maybe the ISP issued a Cancel.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:29:50 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.orgM Subject: Re: Idea for installing VMS without a 512byte CD-ROM...Will it work? ) Message-ID: <03022521295052@antinode.org>   / From: robl@no-no-badpuppy.com (Robert Lawrence) @ > From my understanding of the install guide, the hobbyist CD is# > bootable (to stand-alone backup).   E    The [SYS1] ("BOOT /10000000") directory offers a more complete VMS - environment.  Just don't try to set the time.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:05:37 -0800" From: xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon): Subject: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"< Message-ID: <baa86a4a.0302251505.8f75200@posting.google.com>  A Linus Torvalds, Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"   F To all those girls here who look forward to the IA64, Linus rips IA-64 a new dirthole.   D Not that I would condone the use of CrudLinux(TM), but when TorvaldsF is right, he's right. Alpha should have never been deprecated for this IA-64 hunk of crap.   E LINUX CREATOR AND INDUSTRY GURU Linus Torvalds has been holding forth F on the state of processor architecture on the Linux Kernel Archive. InB words that Intel are likely to be far from happy with, the FinnishD luminary has stuck the boot into Itanium. Only just falling short of@ calling the processor Itanic, his responses to some questions on: processor architecture are sure to be music to AMD's ears.C In a discussion on the merits of various processors, Torvalds wrote A that Intel had made the same mistakes "that everybody else did 15 D years ago" when RISC architecture was first appearing. Itanium tries@ to introduce an architecture that is clean and technically pure,E something that just doesn't seem to work in the real world. He claims B that Intel "threw out all the good parts of the x86 because peopleF thought those parts were ugly. They aren't ugly, they're the 'charming oddity' that makes it do well."   C He almost certainly has a point. Although a 1.5GHz Itanium would be D faster than a 1.5GHz Pentium 4, that's not the competition it has to@ face. The Pentium 4 is available at twice that clockrate and theF Itanium only gets to keep pace by having huge amounts of cache despite all of its clever architecture.   E Clever architecture is something that has trapped others in the past. > The Alpha processor team spent years learning that many of theD architecturally correct ideals they had held needed to be thrown outC when it came to the real world. According to Torvalds, "And all the ? RISC stuff that tried to avoid it was just a BIG WASTE OF TIME. D Because the _only_ thing the RISC approach ended up showing was thatE eventually you have to do the hard stuff anyway, so you might as well ( design for doing it in the first place."  C He goes on to write, "As far as I know, the _only_ things Itanium 2 D does better on is (a) FP kernels, partly due to a huge cache and (b)? big databases, entirely because the P4 is crippled with lots of F memory". That crippling with lots of memory is due to what many peopleB describe as a major kludge in the Pentium architecture called PageE Address Extensions (PAE). According to Torvalds, "the only real major $ failure of the x86 is the PAE crud".  F There are quite a few Xeons in particular that you will see advertisedE with 8GB or 16GB of memory. Astute observers will have wondered how a ? 32bit processor can address more than 4GB of memory. PAE is the E answer. It allows 36bit addressing using 'pages' of memory. According E to Torvalds, the Pentium 4 is crippled "because Intel refuses to do a @ 64-bit version (because they know it would totally kill ia-64)."  C AMD can take some heart at his comments. Reading between the lines, E it's obvious that Torvalds thinks x86-64 is the way to go. "Right now D Intel doesn't even seem to be interested in '64-bit for the masses',B and maybe IBM will be. AMD certainly seems to be serious about theF 'masses' part, which in the end is the only part that really matters".B It's worth noting that Torvalds' employer, Transmeta, has licensed9 x86-64 so he is likely to have access to Hammer hardware.   E Intel has spent a huge amount of money developing its 64bit processor C but the payoff in the real world is likely to take a long time. The @ problems that are being found now that the processor is out withB customers are going to take a lot of effort to smooth over. In hisD scathing view on the Itanium, Torvalds postulates that "in another 5C years they'll get to where the x86 has been for the last 10 years".   ? In what could be the best news for AMD, Torvalds summarised his B thoughts on Itanium. "Code size matters. Price matters. Real worldC matters. And ia-64 at least so far falls flat on its face on ALL of 	 these."     ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:59:08 GMT From: rmk@rmkhome.com > Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"4 Message-ID: <3e5c2d7c$0$4838$75868355@news.frii.net>  # Tsarkon <xeio77@hotmail.com> wrote:   A > In what could be the best news for AMD, Torvalds summarised his D > thoughts on Itanium. "Code size matters. Price matters. Real worldE > matters. And ia-64 at least so far falls flat on its face on ALL of 
 > these."   G When it comes to the "opensource" world, Linux and *BSD are pretty well I stuck with GCC. It may be 5 or 6 years before GCC generates "pretty good" E code for itanic. And due to chipset differences, Intel and HP will be 5 shipping boxes that are incompatible with each other.  --  , rmk@rmkhome.com		http://www.rmkhome.com/~rmk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:08:24 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip) / Message-ID: <3E5BBF24.81BD08A5@vl.videotron.ca>    Frank da Cruz wrote:G > Actually you are using Telnet since you chose port 23, but SET TELNET ) > NEWLINE-MODE wouldn't affect logging --   J I realise that I am connecting to the remote telnet port. But in doing SETI HOST host:23, Is it correct to state that I do not make use of the Kermit K "telnet" command ? (which seems the equivalent of the "connect" command and > stops script execution until you escape from interactive mode.  ? > C-Kermit has a command SET SESSION-LOG { BINARY, TEXT, ...  }   L In my (old) Kermit book, it states that this command is only valid for Unix.  K > In Unix, it just strips CRs.  I imagine that would be appropriate for VMS  > Stream_LF files too?  K Well, the session log on VMS seems created as "stream". If you create it as K "stmlf" then the problem goes away since RMS filters out the cr and lf when   feeding records to applications.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 16:40:49 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)A Subject: Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip) 1 Message-ID: <b3gnt1$got$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   / In article <3E5BBF24.81BD08A5@vl.videotron.ca>, 2 JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: : Frank da Cruz wrote:I : > Actually you are using Telnet since you chose port 23, but SET TELNET + : > NEWLINE-MODE wouldn't affect logging --  : L : I realise that I am connecting to the remote telnet port. But in doing SETK : HOST host:23, Is it correct to state that I do not make use of the Kermit M : "telnet" command ? (which seems the equivalent of the "connect" command and @ : stops script execution until you escape from interactive mode. : J My point was that by selecting port 23, you are selecting Telnet protocol,E which is what governs how carriage returns are treated "on the wire".   K In fact, SET HOST BLAH and SET HOST BLAH:23 are equivalent, since 23 is the 0 default port.  And yes, TELNET is equivalent to:     SET HOST xxx 23    IF SUCCESS CONNECT  A : > C-Kermit has a command SET SESSION-LOG { BINARY, TEXT, ...  }  : N : In my (old) Kermit book, it states that this command is only valid for Unix. : G Right.  Like I said, apparently it still is.  Nobody ever brought it up  before in connection with VMS.    M : > In Unix, it just strips CRs.  I imagine that would be appropriate for VMS  : > Stream_LF files too? : M : Well, the session log on VMS seems created as "stream". If you create it as M : "stmlf" then the problem goes away since RMS filters out the cr and lf when " : feeding records to applications. :  Here's the current code:  /   fp[n] = fopen(name, p, "ctx=stm", "rfm=stm");   - (where p is "w" for Write or "a" for Append).   G What would you suggest for a "text" log?  A "binary" log?  (Recall that F a binary-format log should record all the bytes that came in, suitable for playback.)   - Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:02:36 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>A Subject: Re: Kermit buglet, spurriuous LFs in LOG SESSION (tcpip) / Message-ID: <3E5C201A.C54E47FA@vl.videotron.ca>    Frank da Cruz wrote:E   fp[n] = fopen(name, p, "ctx=stm", "rat=cr", "rfm=stmlf"); for text.     K For binary logs, I am not sure exactly what would be needed, it depends how  you write to it.  K To remove any interference from RMS, you could create the binary file with:   <   fp[n] = fopen(name, p, "ctx=bin", "rat=none", "rfm=udf");   M This will create a file with totally undefined record attributes, but you may E not be able to type it if the file is bigger than your buffer quotas.    Another possibility would be:   F   fp[n] = fopen(name, p, "ctx=bin", "rat=none", "rfm=fix","mrs=512");   M This would create a fixed length 512 byte record file. However, I am not sure L how fprintf would be handled if you try to printf say 100 bytes. Will it padK the remaining 412 bytes with nulls, or will the subsequent fprintf continue G where the rpevious one left. (usually, for binary files, I use open and + read/write instead of fopen/fprintf/fscan).    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:56:37 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!H Message-ID: <VTP6a.79741$Zr%.67327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEPDGKAA.tom@kednos.com... F > Not to change the topic, but I thought I saw reference the other day to? > an Intel cpu (pentium?) at 4.3 GHz, which if true changes the 
 landscape.    B Intel will keep pushing the limit on P4/Xeon technology up and up,B faster than the push for IA-64 up, simply because that's where the volume and profits lay.     D We've seen it time and time again, where the low-end steadily erodesD the high end. DEC did it to IBM. Sun did it to DEC. Dell et. al. areE doing it to Sun and HP. That said, the low end never wants to pay for + the engineering that goes into big systems.   < Look at it from the perspective of a typical small/mid-sizedE corporation ($50M-$800M annual sales). You're the typical IT head and F always under budget constraints. You probably don't do full life-cycleE costing when you make your purchasing decisions, nor do you spend the B extra few bucks to hire really talented people (remember this is aD typical company, maybe not yours). Your biggest concerns are keepingB e-mail/web access and the accounting application running. You knowD squat about clusters except what Billy tells you. So you buy a bunch> of 'point solution' boxes, or you create a web server farm forD internal applications if you're somewhat smart. You don't look at itF beyond the typical 3-year walk away lease. You don't consider disasterB recovery. You just buy the next commodity box that's fast. So when? your leases are up, you buy 40 new P4/Xeon servers instead of 4 ( Alpha's or whatever IA-64 box is around.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:08:36 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!, Message-ID: <b3h7j401j80@enews3.newsguy.com>  - Keith A. Lewis <lewis@probe.mitre.org> wrote: @ > 1.  "Linux" is not an OS, it's an x86 kernel for the GNU OS.    L Linux is an OS.  Hurd (ever hear of that toy) is the kernel for the GNU OS. M It just happened that the GNU tools were a good fit when Linux needed tools.  E In the early days you could find people running either the BSD or GNU  versions of various tools.    E I suppose you're one of those Stallmanites that think Linux should be H refered to as GNU/Linux?  Rememeber there is a lot more stuff in a LinuxH distro that isn't GNU than is.  The only real GNU dependency is GCC, and> that's only becuase it was the logical choice for a compilier.   > Torvalds didJ > not write the GNU OS, just the module that makes it run on peecees.  TheL > Alpha version does not use the Linux module, even though it's often called > "Alpha Linux".  I Do you know *anything* about Unix or Linux?  WTF is this module bit?  You 3 sure don't seem to be talking about kernel modules.    			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:18:00 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!, Message-ID: <b3h84o11j80@enews3.newsguy.com>  ) Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote: + > very little about VMS ... except that now . > it threatens his little money making empire.) > antoher Bill gates wannabe who hypes an , > inferior product at wholesale prices until. > they suck enough suckers in, then lift their  > wallets from their pockets ...  I A more valid explaination for his reaction to Itanium might be that Linus J works for Transmeta which most likely tends to cause him to be Anti-Intel.  = I seriously doubt he even cares that VMS will run on Itanium.    			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:41:09 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!6 Message-ID: <00A1C085.ED55D6D6@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <b3h84o11j80@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: * >Bob Ceculski <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote:, >> very little about VMS ... except that now/ >> it threatens his little money making empire. * >> antoher Bill gates wannabe who hypes an- >> inferior product at wholesale prices until / >> they suck enough suckers in, then lift their ! >> wallets from their pockets ...  > J >A more valid explaination for his reaction to Itanium might be that LinusK >works for Transmeta which most likely tends to cause him to be Anti-Intel.   L Uh, that article talks at length about how he likes P4 better than Itanium. J That's anti-Intel in what way?  He prefers one Intel product over another.  > >I seriously doubt he even cares that VMS will run on Itanium.   I'm with you there.    -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:03:28 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!/ Message-ID: <3E5C4A9F.955C220A@vl.videotron.ca>    "Zane H. Healy" wrote:? > I seriously doubt he even cares that VMS will run on Itanium.   N Because VMS is declared dead in the public mind and never makes any big public3 noises, it is no threath to anyone and not noticed.   H But if the owners of VMS were to put it back into the limelight, make itL scalable from desktop to datacenter again, I think that Torvalds would start to worry about VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:25:21 GMT + From: "lbalders@gte.net" <lbalders@gte.net>   Subject: Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD& Message-ID: <3E5BDEA7.EBBE0D3@gte.net>    Hi Grard, here it is. Thanks, L   UCX> sho ver  @   Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V4.1 - ECO 9:   on a AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB running OpenVMS V7.1-1H1   UCX> sho serv ftp/ful    Service: FTP-                            State:     Enabled G Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 H Inactivity:         30     User_name: UCX$FTP         Process:  UCX$FTPDC Limit:              50     Active:      0             Peak:      14   9 File:         SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UCX$FTP]UCX$FTPD_STARTUP.COM  Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck 0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  F Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr9  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UCX$FTP]UCX$FTPD_STARTUP.LOG    Security  Reject msg:  not defined   Accept host: 0.0.0.0   Accept netw: 0.0.0.0   
 UAF> sho *ftp : Username: UCX$FTP                          Owner:  UCX$FTP: Account:  UCX$FTP                          UIC:    [375,1] ([UCX$AUX,UCX$FTP]) < CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES! Default:  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UCX$FTP]  LGICMD:   LOGIN  Flags:  Restricted# Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri + Secondary days:                     Sat Sun F Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222F Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123F Network:  ##### Full access ######            ##### Full access ######F Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------D Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0> Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)> Last Login:            (none) (interactive), 25-FEB-2003 05:36 (non-interactive) 9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:        50  Bytlm:       108000 9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 9 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:        96  JTquota:       4096 9 Prclm:           8  DIOlm:        96  WSdef:          350 9 Prio:            8  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:          512 9 Queprio:         4  TQElm:        15  WSextent:       512 9 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:       100  Pgflquo:      10240  Authorized Privileges:   NETMBX       TMPMBX  Default Privileges:    NETMBX       TMPMBX     CAICGS$  mc sysgen sh channelcntG Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  Dynamic G --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  ------- A CHANNELCNT                  20000        256        31      65535  Channels   labadie wrote:   Hello   * This sounds like a badly tuned ftp account Please post  $ ucx sh version $ ucx sh serv ftp/ful  $ mc authorize sh *ftp $ mc sysgen sh channelcnt    regards    Grard  G > <lbalders@gte.net> wrote in message news:3E5B93F3.A04BD5F4@gte.net... 
 > > Hi folks,  > > = > > We have encountered a strange problem with our system. It ? > > seems that MSIE ftp-ing to the Alpha's anonymous site hangs ? > > the system. FTPD goes into MUTEX process state, and all ftp A > > services hang. Must reboot to clear (did not try stopping the . > > processes, probably just go RWAST anyway). > > > > > Alpha running VMS 7.1-1H1, nearing the end of it's service9 > > life. We are running "HFRD VMS HTTPd server". Clients < > > have MSIE v5.5, but must use Netscape v4.x, as MSIE will> > > not work with http, error message 403, forbidden. And then> > > we have this "MSIE ftp hangs system" problem. There are no# > > problems using Netscape (v4.x).  > > 5 > > Any idea what is going on here, or how to fix it?  > >  > > Thank you, lbalders@gte.net  > >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:37:23 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD/ Message-ID: <3E5C1A33.841D327B@vl.videotron.ca>   / If you are running the TCPIP services software:   3 DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$FTPD_LOG_CLIENT_ACTIVITY "TRUE"     M Then look in SYS$LOGIN:TCPIP$FTP_CLIENT.LOG for information on the connection N attempt, or if it doesn't get that far, in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]*.LOG  you should have some info.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:07:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the3 Message-ID: <nADwbW9NoBbF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <20030225204156.7640B755.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: + > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:  > ; >> Once again confirming something everybody already knows:  >   D >> The people who decide these things are complete and utter morons. > J > No, 'cause no one who was complete do do somthing that stupid. Ignorance$ > you can fix, stupidity is forever.  = So what would you have named it that did not involve an Intel 6 trademark but did provide a name useful in marketing ?   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 04:44:19 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for theD Message-ID: <20030225204156.7640B755.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>  ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   : > Once again confirming something everybody already knows:   C > The people who decide these things are complete and utter morons.   H No, 'cause no one who was complete do do somthing that stupid. Ignorance" you can fix, stupidity is forever.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:39:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for theH Message-ID: <ioR6a.80969$Zr%.43362@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:nADwbW9NoBbF@eisner.encompasserve.org... F > In article <20030225204156.7640B755.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>,. Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:- > > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:  > > = > >> Once again confirming something everybody already knows:  > > F > >> The people who decide these things are complete and utter morons. > > B > > No, 'cause no one who was complete do do somthing that stupid.	 Ignorance & > > you can fix, stupidity is forever. > ? > So what would you have named it that did not involve an Intel 8 > trademark but did provide a name useful in marketing ?   How about this catchy moniker:  B hp OpenVMS, The Standard All Other Operating Systems Aspire To ButF Will Never Achieve Unless We Are Terminally Stupid And Stop Developing And Marketing It (tm)       ( Sung to the tune of the Chordettes song,
 "Mr. Sandman"   : Hewlett Packard, bring me a dream (bung, bung, bung, bung)D Bring me the best o/s the world's ever seen (bung, bung, bung, bung)> Give it speed and clustering strength (bung, bung, bung, bung). Then tell the world their batch days are over. O'VMS, I'm so alone   Don't have an o/s to call my own Please turn on your magic beam" Hewlett Packard, bring me a dream.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 2003 17:52 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the- Message-ID: <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes... t }In article <20030225204156.7640B755.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:, }> carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: }>  < }>> Once again confirming something everybody already knows: }>  E }>> The people who decide these things are complete and utter morons.  }>  K }> No, 'cause no one who was complete do do somthing that stupid. Ignorance % }> you can fix, stupidity is forever.  } > }So what would you have named it that did not involve an Intel7 }trademark but did provide a name useful in marketing ?   5 Why, exactly, should all Intel trademarks be avoided?   = You are allowed to use trademarks fro a variety of things. If < you product is compatable with something, you are allowed to> use the relevent trademarked term when saying so. For example,@ everything, everything's brother, and everything's brother's dog@ used the Windows trademark to say that it runs on Windows. There> is nothing illegal about this. Ditto for "Intel Inside". Also,= if your sotware runs on a Pentium 4, you can say it runs on a A Pentium 4. Just look on the box of any PC game you can buy almost = anywhere - they pretty much all list what sort of system they - require, inlcuding various trademarked terms.   D So once again, why, exactly, do we need to avoid all the trademarks?   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 22:48:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the3 Message-ID: <IpJ4R2bD0osQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   7 > Why, exactly, should all Intel trademarks be avoided?   F > So once again, why, exactly, do we need to avoid all the trademarks?  B HP owns the trademarks for everything in the names OpenVMS VAX andF OpenVMS Alpha.  It makes sense that they should control the trademarks for the new one also.   C Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided that E starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting with B "M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than	 Itanium ?   ! So what happens to the VMS name ?    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:01:12 -0800" From: xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon)6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boots on Itanium on Friday Jan 31= Message-ID: <baa86a4a.0302251501.2216d667@posting.google.com>   A Linus Torvalds, Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"    IA64 falls flat   . By Arron Rouse: Monday 24 February 2003, 19:58    E LINUX CREATOR AND INDUSTRY GURU Linus Torvalds has been holding forth F on the state of processor architecture on the Linux Kernel Archive. InB words that Intel are likely to be far from happy with, the FinnishD luminary has stuck the boot into Itanium. Only just falling short of@ calling the processor Itanic, his responses to some questions on: processor architecture are sure to be music to AMD's ears.C In a discussion on the merits of various processors, Torvalds wrote A that Intel had made the same mistakes "that everybody else did 15 D years ago" when RISC architecture was first appearing. Itanium tries@ to introduce an architecture that is clean and technically pure,E something that just doesn't seem to work in the real world. He claims B that Intel "threw out all the good parts of the x86 because peopleF thought those parts were ugly. They aren't ugly, they're the 'charming oddity' that makes it do well."   C He almost certainly has a point. Although a 1.5GHz Itanium would be D faster than a 1.5GHz Pentium 4, that's not the competition it has to@ face. The Pentium 4 is available at twice that clockrate and theF Itanium only gets to keep pace by having huge amounts of cache despite all of its clever architecture.   E Clever architecture is something that has trapped others in the past. > The Alpha processor team spent years learning that many of theD architecturally correct ideals they had held needed to be thrown outC when it came to the real world. According to Torvalds, "And all the ? RISC stuff that tried to avoid it was just a BIG WASTE OF TIME. D Because the _only_ thing the RISC approach ended up showing was thatE eventually you have to do the hard stuff anyway, so you might as well ( design for doing it in the first place."  C He goes on to write, "As far as I know, the _only_ things Itanium 2 D does better on is (a) FP kernels, partly due to a huge cache and (b)? big databases, entirely because the P4 is crippled with lots of F memory". That crippling with lots of memory is due to what many peopleB describe as a major kludge in the Pentium architecture called PageE Address Extensions (PAE). According to Torvalds, "the only real major $ failure of the x86 is the PAE crud".  F There are quite a few Xeons in particular that you will see advertisedE with 8GB or 16GB of memory. Astute observers will have wondered how a ? 32bit processor can address more than 4GB of memory. PAE is the E answer. It allows 36bit addressing using 'pages' of memory. According E to Torvalds, the Pentium 4 is crippled "because Intel refuses to do a @ 64-bit version (because they know it would totally kill ia-64)."  C AMD can take some heart at his comments. Reading between the lines, E it's obvious that Torvalds thinks x86-64 is the way to go. "Right now D Intel doesn't even seem to be interested in '64-bit for the masses',B and maybe IBM will be. AMD certainly seems to be serious about theF 'masses' part, which in the end is the only part that really matters".B It's worth noting that Torvalds' employer, Transmeta, has licensed9 x86-64 so he is likely to have access to Hammer hardware.   E Intel has spent a huge amount of money developing its 64bit processor C but the payoff in the real world is likely to take a long time. The @ problems that are being found now that the processor is out withB customers are going to take a lot of effort to smooth over. In hisD scathing view on the Itanium, Torvalds postulates that "in another 5C years they'll get to where the x86 has been for the last 10 years".   ? In what could be the best news for AMD, Torvalds summarised his B thoughts on Itanium. "Code size matters. Price matters. Real worldC matters. And ia-64 at least so far falls flat on its face on ALL of 	 these."      0 Only 3,500 Intel Itanium servers shipped in 2002   Way to go...  C IT'S GOING TO take Intel quite a while before the Itanium processor B starts to deliver a return on investment, if a report on Bloomberg turns out to be true. > An article about how Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett Packard, is> sticking to her guns on the Itanium platform, said that marketD research company IDC estimated that the chip, shortly to go into itsA third incarnation as the Madison processor, only shipped in 3,500  servers last year.  C That's out of a total of 4,500,000 server systems shipped in 2003.    ? Intel maintains staunchly that it will stick to its guns on the C Itanium platform, but with figures like that, there's a fair way to  go.   > HP, after the sleight of hand it achieved by buying Compaq andD transferring its Alpha processor to Intel, is still right behind theC Itanium platform. Last week, at the Intel Developer Form, it showed E off a future "SuperDome" server which will have 128 Itaniums in it by  the beginning of next year.   C IBM seems more than a little wary of using Itaniums these days, and D didn't even have a stand at last week's Intel Developer Forum, while5 Dell has stopped shipping these type of machines too.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:56:59 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai 8 Message-ID: <puen5vgi6fuvmnva1b7n703uokn139p161@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:14:20 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  > 
 >jlsue wrote: H >> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:35:01 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>   >>   >>  ? >>>If you want another nail to the GS160 perfromance lie coffin > >>>then look no further than your own TPC-C benchmark results. >>> ? >>>A GS140 with 8 x 700 MHz CPU's posted a result of 42,437 TPM @ >>>A GS160 with 16 x 731 MHz CPU's posted a result of 55,221 TPM >>> G >>>It doesn't take a genius to work out that this isn't a demonstration + >>>that the NUMA architecture is effective.  >>>  >>   >>  H >> If my applications were TPC-C benchmarks, I might actually care about% >> that.  Since they're not, I don't.  >>   >  > 2 >So the ground has moved yet again. Now you simply4 >want to rule out anything that doesn't interest you >personally.  D I see, so what you're saying now is that customers should make their4 buying decisions based on these kinds of benchmarks?  B Sorry, I don't advise customers that way.  We try to get their ownF apps benchmarked to demonstrate the value they will receive from their investment.   A And, just fyi, many of these applications are DBMS apps.  And the F customers are happy.  In fact, there have been some significant server> consolidation effort based on these systems.  Happy customers.  C You can use whatever measure you like, I suppose, but those are the  ones I care about.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:54:03 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai 8 Message-ID: <lqdn5v43rp6be3v2r6853l5ogqi0ce0b2l@4ax.com>  E On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:09:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  > 
 >jlsue wrote: H >> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:07:18 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >> <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>   >>   >>>  >>>jlsue wrote:  >>   >>  C >>>>Ha!  I asked you to provide evidence for two years for all your F >>>>constant bilge about there being loads of customers with GS160/320D >>>>that were slower than their GS140.  For TWO YEARS you constantlyH >>>>spewed crap that it was all over the news group.  I even provided myC >>>>search criteria and the results in order to get some additional E >>>>information from you to back up your claim.  And when you finally H >>>>relent and provide something, it's only 1 or 2 data points.  And forH >>>>the 2nd one, I, once again, have to do all the work.  The irony, andH >>>>the reason I reject this argument from you, is that you consistentlyF >>>>reject such claims from us of a similar nature (re. customers with= >>>>VMSclusters who get perfect uptime, and great application  >>>>compatibility).  >>>> >>> : >>>No for two years I suggested that you had a little look7 >>>at the archives for this newsgroup and for two years  >>>you didn't. >>   >>  A >> I did look at the archives, and didn't find anything worthy of F >> discussion, and certainly nothing to support your claims.  And you,G >> yourself, have only provided ONE note that comes close to supporting  >> your claims.  >>   >>   > ; >But as we now all know this is untrue, there were articles < >that were worthy of discussion which also proved to be easy	 >to find.   E There were LOTS of articles to be more precise.  As I've stated many, C many times to you, it should not be up to me to slog through all of . them to find the ones that support your views.   > C >I have now provided 5 references. Two news articles from customers < >and 3 benchmarks published by Compaq. There are more if you >want them.   D Right, TWO articles.  At least one of which was a happy customer who, was well aware of the POTENTIAL numa issues.  E But the benchmark articles are worthless to me and my customers.  Oh, C they may help at some level in discussions, but by-and-large, those D who benchmark their own apps have been very happy with the gs160/320 systems.  D Maybe I'm different in this respect, but I tend to put value on what the customer wants & needs.    > A >But I see no point in your pursuing this any further because one > >of the customer posts states that the poster was told by your< >own engineers that there were know NUMA performance issues.   And your point is what?      > : >Either you knew this and were simply attempting hide this6 >information or you didn't do due dilligence with your, >own engineers before posting to this group. >  >Which one is it ??   F Well, if you had actually read what I wrote on that subject, you'd seeC that is was neither.  But then, it'd ruin the strawman argument you  like to use in your fud.  C Putting aside your little smokescreen, what you really read is that < the NUMA performance issue was known  *based on the poster'sF application design*.  Nowhere does anything say *all* - or even *most*C - applications will have performance issues.  That little statement  has been coming from you.    > ; >>>Sadly as you know now if you had tried a bit harder then 9 >>>you would have found the result you were hoping wasn't 	 >>>there.  >>   >>  F >> I tried again with your suggested search, and found 353 articles of? >> which ONE (the same one mentioned above) that comes close to  >> supporting your claims. >>   >  >Oh come on. > ? >I have provided you with 2 direct customer posts, one of which A >states that there are known NUMA performance issues. 3 benchmark @ >results (Kingston, Pre OPS TPC-C and OPS TPC-C) and I have also? >offered to give you the name of a major customer in the UK who 3 >has bought another platform because if this issue.  > E >In the circumstances you have only ONE option which is to appologise D >for the last 2 years worth of postings on this subject and get back >to your day job.   B Wow, you are sure full of yourself.  You can't even admit your own= failings, and yet you expect the rest of use to admit to YOUR 1 definition of our own failings.  What a hypocrit.   B The fact is that I have never, ever, put forth the contention that= there are no performance issues in gs160/320 systems for some D applications.  I wouldn't make the mistake of going that far outsideF of my own experience.  However, you on the other hand, have no problemA making blanket statements that the GS160/320 is slower, based on, F what?, maybe 3 or 4 experiences.  I've got more direct experience thatA contradicts your position, therefore I know that it's not a valid ! general statement of performance.   @ Using your technique of arguing performance, I can state that myD experience with customer sites who found the Sun systems slower thanE gs-systems proves that Sun is slower.  So what?  It proves nothing as @ I'm sure that there are always some applications that particularB architectures will perform better/worse on than others.  It proves nothing.     > I >> But, as your response shows, you still expect everyone else to do most H >> all the work to "prove" your fud.  I believe I made a simple request:E >> If you make a statement as a generalization, please provide enough D >> evidence to support your claims.  Your response, consistently, isB >> "it's in the google archives, find it yourself" (paraphrasing). >>   > : >Look I repeatedly told you that the posts were there, you9 >repeatedly told me that they wern't because you couldn't 5 >find them. I have now supplied you with 2 posts that 9 >were easy to find so who is the dummy ?? They were right  >under your nose.   D Let's see.... Yes, you said "they're there".  No, I did NOT say thatC they weren't there.  What I did was request a little more effort on C your part to provide the supporting evidence you claimed was there. E They're only "easy to find" if you've got the time and inclination to F find them... and since it is YOUR statement, it is YOUR responsibilityD to cull out the few that apply.  Sorry buddy, but there is no way itF can be my responsibility to slow through 353 articles to find the ones that support your statements.   D If you want to claim otherwise, then I'll make some statements aboutA Sun performance being crap and leave it to you to find the proof.    >  >>  7 >>>Ironically you also didn't do any of the work if you 3 >>>remember I was the person you pointed you to the 3 >>>article, you just waffled on about there being a 4 >>>lot of GS160 articles and how you hadn't searched >>>them all. >>   >>  H >> Again, it's your statement, thus *your* responsibility to support it. >>   > 6 >No you claimed that you had looked for the references4 >you either didn't or you didn't do a good job. Live! >with it you have been found out.   D Good grief!  Are you really saying that it is MY JOB to slog through< many, many postings to find the evidence you claim is there?   > F >> Very informative article.  I think someone in did publish in here aH >> document from engineering that explains numa performance details.  So1 >> there was no attempt to hide this information.  >>  E >> However, if you really read this article, you'd see that it, also, H >> does not provide enough info to prove your generalization.  What thisB >> note states about the performance problems are in relation to aI >> specific application with specific characteristics (though it provides F >> no details what those characteristics are).  I still see no smoking; >> gun that the GS160 is slower than the GS140 - a sweeping * >> generalization that your commonly make. >>   >  >The article says  > H >"We were running with 8 CPU GS140s on what today are rather slow CPUs. B >Only a single application was run on the units consisting of manyI >simultaneous processes communicating extensively through global memory.  I >  Think of the application as a medium sized transaction box.   We tried H >increasing the CPU count, but diminishing returns made 8 CPUs appear to >be a good place to stop." > ? >This sounds very very like a DBMS since its how Oracle etc are 
 >architected.   C "Sounds very very like" is not the same thing as "Is the same thing  as".   > B >"At Nashua we explained our application in detail to engineering.I >Engineering suggested the GS NUMA architecture.  However, they were very H >candid about NUMA performance problems.  Based on their experience withE >other customers with similar applications, engineering advised us to : >consider reorganizing our application to deal with NUMA." > C >So your engineers are basically saying that any transactional DBMS - >type application will have problems on a GS.   F You have NO idea what the transactions are, nor the type of algorithmsE in use to handle those transactions.  You make many, many assumptionsdF based on a vague terminology.  I can show you "transactions" that take$ days to execute on any architecture.   >A5 >Come on stop the BS this is a huge category of apps.s >r@ >As I said earlier your only course of action at this point that> >will help your already damaged credibility is a full appology> >followed by silence on this subject on your part. Nothing you+ >have posted subsequently has changed this.n  F Well, when it comes to credibility, I don't think I'll look to you for advise, thank you very much.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:43:05 -0500i5 From: "Barry Skidmore" <skidmore@mail.worldvenue.org>r& Subject: Pine Email Problem on OpenVMS@ Message-ID: <pan.2003.02.26.01.43.05.799480@mail.worldvenue.org>  E I just installed Pine 3.91-2 on OpenVMS 7.2 and receive the followingII error when trying to send to an Internet (non-local) email address (localP email works fine):    "Mail not sent. User not local"  ? What configuration change do I need to change to enable sendingi non-local email?   Thanks,a Barry Skidmore   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:40:10 +0000 (UTC) 1 From: "Dan Williams" <dan.williams@btconnect.com>   Subject: Problem booting 4000/901 Message-ID: <b3gnrp$jtl$1@knossos.btinternet.com>t  K I have a 4000/90 which I am having trouble installing vms on. I have two cdoH drives on of which it recognises but it goes offline after booting (WhenD starting backup command). The other drive will boot and install on aK vaxstation 3100 but the 4000/90 refuses to boot from it. Is it likely theree is a problem with the 4000/90 ?oJ The drive on the 4000/90 is a 2gb drive so I can't install on the 3100 and swap the drives over.r# Can anyone cast any light on this ?i   Thanks Dane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:13:31 -0800R# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>a$ Subject: RE: Problem booting 4000/909 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEADGLAA.tom@kednos.com>e   >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: Dan Williams [mailto:dan.williams@btconnect.com]t) >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 1:40 PMt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Problem booting 4000/90e >6 > L >I have a 4000/90 which I am having trouble installing vms on. I have two cdI >drives on of which it recognises but it goes offline after booting (WhenLE >starting backup command). The other drive will boot and install on aeL >vaxstation 3100 but the 4000/90 refuses to boot from it. Is it likely there  >is a problem with the 4000/90 ?K >The drive on the 4000/90 is a 2gb drive so I can't install on the 3100 andf >swap the drives over.  J You might get waya with it, the idea being that you don't use enough space to0 wrap on the address.  I once did this on a 3100.  $ >Can anyone cast any light on this ? >h >Thanksf >Dan >e >S >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).sA >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  ---p& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:05:11 -0500o5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com>iO Subject: Re: Problems connecting to PATHWORKS share ofter upgrade from V5 to V6"/ Message-ID: <v5oiob1bagqh3e@corp.supernews.com>e  8 "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> wrote in message? news:91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB1FD@tahiti.tinuk.com...0F Thanks for the help so far. I think I may have discovered the problem.? At least I hope it's *THE* problem, rather than *A* problem...!   I >So, the question is, how do I 'locate' the old share and any files whichh! >may have been conatined therein?i  J oh boy... Did you run the V6 upgrade utility?  Or, did you just install V6 and go?t  H The V5 shares (and the users and groups and secruity) are not compatibleF with V6.  You need to run a tool that upgrades all you V5 data to a V6L format.  If you didn't do that, It might not be too late, unless you somehowK managed to delte all your V5 data files. I think you might still be able tosI shutdown V6 and run the tool.  Or, maybe you might need to de-install V6,?J then run the tool.  Not sure off the top of my head, it might time to call the CSC.  J Or, you could just define a new share to point where the old one did.  TheH "files which may have been conatined therein" are still right where theyI always were - In some directory on one of the disks.  The only thing thatoK has changed is the share.  Of course, you still won't have users or groups,b* but, maybe you could add them by hand too?  E You reall y need to read the server migration guide which talks aboutl migrating from V5 to V6.  SeeiD http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/72final/6558/6558pro.html for more@ information.  V5 to V6 is not a simple upgrade, its a migration.   Brad                      B I am, of course, trying to read the documentation as fast as I can- without losing all sense of what I'm reading!e   TIAi   Steve Spires Technical Consultant Torex Health [T] +44 (0) 1295 274200p [F] +44 (0) 1295 275131g
 www.torex.comt   >>-----Original Message-----< >>From: Brad McCusker [mailto:brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com] >>Sent: 25 February 2003 01:42 >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComV; >>Subject: Re: Problems connecting to PATHWORKS share ofteru >>upgrade from V5 to V6  >> >>: >>I agree with Rob's suggestions... In addition, maybe you >>>      [lots of snippage]     >>> Rob. >>>    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:34:01 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)r$ Subject: Re: PRODUCT REMOVE problem.0 Message-ID: <JyP6a.380$sD3.279@news.cpqcorp.net>  F In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE58@tahiti.tinuk.com>, / "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes:n   !$ prod remove ucx > ) >The following product has been selected:6; >    DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21                 Layered Product  >b >Do you want to continue? [YES]g > X >%PCSI-W-OPTREF, product DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21 is referenced by DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3M >-PCSI-W-OPTRF1, this software dependency is expressed within a configurationoI >-PCSI-W-OPTRF2,   option that is currently selected for the referencing mM >-PCSI-W-OPTRF3, if you want to reconfigure the referencing product or reviewOM >-PCSI-W-OPTRF4,   its configuration requirements, answer NO to the followingsQ >-PCSI-W-OPTRF5,   question to terminate this operation; if you are sure you wantnO >-PCSI-W-OPTRF6,   to remove the referenced product, then answer YES to proceedd >Do you want to continue? [YES]   G This happens because UCX was installed as part of the OpenVMS platform,tM DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3.  It is safe to ignore this and continue, as you did.i      6 >%PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...N >%DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening PCSI$SOURCE:[000000]CLEAN_SDA_HELP.COM; as inputL >-RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation >hE >%PCSI-E-EXERMVFAIL, product supplied EXECUTE REMOVE procedure failedGL >-RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation# >%PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedeF >Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]  J The UCS kit specified this file in the REMOVE option of an EXECUTE INSTALLK statement, but did NOT leave the file on the system, so it is not availablenK when you PRODUCT REMOVE.  You can contiune, but watever CLEAN_SDA_HELP.COM cM does won't get done.  You could probably extract it from the UCX kit, if you  * have the kit, and figure out what it does.   Why are you removing UCX?u  G If you upgrade for UCX to TCP/IP as part of an OpenVMS operating systema6 upgrade, these problems will be taken care of for you.  G If you do NOT want to upgrade OpenVMS, then boot the V7.3 OpenVMS AlpharH operating system CD-ROM (the "kit CD") and proceed as if you were doing G an upgrade.  You will reach a point where the procedure recognizes yourfG are installing/upgrading the same version asn is already installed.  AtmN this point, several options will be offered.  Choose the option to reconfigureK the OpenVMS platform.  Answer "NO" when asked if you want all the defaults.e3 Wander through the options to de-select ("NO") UCX.m  C Now that I've said all that, frankly, I'm not entirely certain thatsB reconfigure will avoid the DCL-E-OPENIN error.  I know that in theE regular upgrade, we point to a copy of CLEAN_SDA_HELP.COM, but I haveaD never tried this particular reconfigure, and I don't know if it will find the .COM or not.k  I My own inclination would be to PRODUCT EXTRACT the .com from the UCX kit, K figure out what it does, and do that manually after removing (ignoring the w
 error) UCX.     K The alternative, if PRODUCT EXTRACT canot extract this file (I'm not sure), M would be PRODUCT COPY /FORMAT=REFERENCE.  Then search the directory hierarch  / specified in /DESTINATINO=[<dir>] for the .COM.o   -- mJ       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:52:14 +0800e# From: "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> D Subject: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language?3 Message-ID: <1046235599.53563@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>o  	 Dear All,a  F Do you have idea retrieve an integer from a longword variable, in RMS?   Thanks,  Albert.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:56:17 +0800d# From: "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com>l2 Subject: Question: retrieve integer from longword.1 Message-ID: <1046235600.707@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>   	 Dear All,   L After opened a RMS file, and get a longword data, but how to get the integerJ value of this data.  Could you advice any idea about retrieving an integer from longword data type?   Thanks so much.w   Albert.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:35:28 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>N Subject: Re: Question: why sometimes asctim returns "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00"?/ Message-ID: <3E5BB76F.AB3D4EB8@vl.videotron.ca>c   Phillip Helbig wrote:iH > There is a bug which returns a delta-time of 0 in some contexts as theB > above date (which is the zero-point date for VMS).  For example:  A If A = B, then doing the delta time between A and B will yield 0.   M By definition, a delta time needs to be negative. Positive and 0 values yieldb an absolute time.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:53:52 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> N Subject: Re: Question: why sometimes asctim returns "17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00"?; Message-ID: <01KSVBT8YLEM9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>.  J > > There is a bug which returns a delta-time of 0 in some contexts as theD > > above date (which is the zero-point date for VMS).  For example: > C > If A = B, then doing the delta time between A and B will yield 0.o > O > By definition, a delta time needs to be negative. Positive and 0 values yielda > an absolute time.B  A Let me rephrase that.  In some cases, a field which is obviously mG supposed to be a delta time (such as the "Elapsed CPU :" field in SHOW  G STATUS) of 0 is interpreted as an absolute time of 0, as in my example.h  M   Status on  25-FEB-2003 21:52:33.77     Elapsed CPU :17-NOV-1858 00:00:00.00m  H I'm not sure of the ultimate cause of this nor whether it is related to 9 the original poster's problem, but it seemed it could be.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:09:20 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)$2 Subject: Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251509.6261185b@posting.google.com>1  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E54EE94.CCBBA7BE@127.0.0.1>... ( > There should be no problems with this.  O I agree with Nic.  I've done this myself in the past, and not had any problems.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:34:15 -0600p1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t2 Subject: Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR' Message-ID: <3E5C27A7.AF2CC030@fsi.net>i   Keith Parris wrote:i > [ > Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E54EE94.CCBBA7BE@127.0.0.1>...e* > > There should be no problems with this. > Q > I agree with Nic.  I've done this myself in the past, and not had any problems.n  @ I've got DCL code to do that (as part of another function) on my= website. See: http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/moveroot.zip    --   David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:28:22 +0100r2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)) Subject: Re: Samba Missing stropts.h filec; Message-ID: <3e5bd1e6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>n  % jm (john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com) wrote:rE > Also, I couldn't figure out how to see what compiler version I had. & > "Help CC" didn't reveal the version.  
 $ CC /VERSIONe   cu,c   Martin -- gD                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deeE  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/y8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 03 20:41:15 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <K3KriRP$4iAn@elias.decus.ch>m  U In article <vXvxMFpDsR5n@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:oh > In article <b3ck3h$nls$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: >>  P >> Backup the whole system disk. You never know which file might give you a clueJ >> once you start the analysis. In addition have a look at the users' homeP >> directories. Are there any FTP-logs, POP3-logs or the like? What date has theG >> LOGIN.COM? Anything else modified on any disk since your last login?a >> e+ >> Finally, please let us know the outcome.  >> s >  > OK here's the first analysis.  > G > From a combination of the accounting, audit files and operator log, I-C > have discovered that I initially triggered intrusion detection (Iu$ > was trying to log in from my Mac). > E > Realizing this was probably the case, I then went to my console andm> > tried logging in from the Motif screensaver password prompt. > 9 > No success there, nor when I restarted in minimum mode.h >   * Oops. I missed out a vital paragraph here.  ; My console keyboard had some sticking keys. I could see the%: wrong passwords in the audit log. Small wonder I triggered" intrusion detection there as well.   -- f
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:13:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box3 Message-ID: <yBzw$srjV8EV@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  U In article <K3KriRP$4iAn@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:.  = > My console keyboard had some sticking keys. I could see the < > wrong passwords in the audit log. Small wonder I triggered$ > intrusion detection there as well.  G This problem was fully explained on a US TV documentary* about 15 yearst ago.   ------+ *Saturday Night Live, "The Pepsi Syndrome".k   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 03 23:56:31 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)m4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box) Message-ID: <FsNNym6w9s8Q@elias.decus.ch>g  c In article <yBzw$srjV8EV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:vW > In article <K3KriRP$4iAn@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:f > > >> My console keyboard had some sticking keys. I could see the= >> wrong passwords in the audit log. Small wonder I triggeredt% >> intrusion detection there as well.f > I > This problem was fully explained on a US TV documentary* about 15 years  > ago. >  > ------- > *Saturday Night Live, "The Pepsi Syndrome".   B I had a similar problem with a telephone a few years ago, spillingG Pepsi onto it. It took well over a week for the cradle to become firmly<= stuck down when the receiver was lifted. Stripping the cradle ) showed a small deposit of Pepsi like goo.t   -- -
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:29:29 -0600e From: brandon@dalsemi.comd4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box1 Message-ID: <03022517292980@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   - >> Oops. I missed out a vital paragraph here.o >> h> >> My console keyboard had some sticking keys. I could see the= >> wrong passwords in the audit log. Small wonder I triggeredo% >> intrusion detection there as well.n >> t >> -- 
 >> Paul Sturec  J Reminds me of one of our users, using PowerTerm, defined the Y key to be aI function.  No wonder she could not log in - her password contained a Y...t   No comment... ;-)n       John Brandon VMS Systems Administratorz Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:28:30 -0400m0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: Suspected compromise of my home VMS box/ Message-ID: <3E5C181F.E6A42591@vl.videotron.ca>y   Paul Sture wrote:i= > My console keyboard had some sticking keys. I could see thew< > wrong passwords in the audit log. Small wonder I triggered$ > intrusion detection there as well.    K You should get the intrusion detection to TEMPORARILY disable accounts, notnK permanently disable them. VMS can disable them for a variable amount near aa value you specify.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 11:55:17 -0800+ From: paul_hallam@hotmail.com (Paul Hallam)l) Subject: TCPIP and network loss detectiony= Message-ID: <5ed44bd3.0302251155.40bed343@posting.google.com>r  E We have a situation where a program assigns a channel, socket etc andcA then listens on the IP port for communication from several clienta; systems. Each message from the clients is replied to BUT noa> communication is actually initiated from our ALPHA - it is all initiated by the clients.o  E The clients are routed to our systems from various locations and passlF through a cisco switch just before physically connecting to the Alpha.  E The problem is that if the switch fails our clients are automaticallyIE routed to our standby system by a router a little further up the line E BUT I can't seem to make the Alpha realise that the switch has failed @ and perform some extra work. It just sits there listening on the channel.  E Does anyone know if there is a system service that I can periodically D call that will be able to determin if there is no 'life' outside the Alpha.D Remember in this situation there is nothing wrong with the device we6 are using, there is just nothing for it to connect to.  D If necessary we could set up command procedures to periodically pingF the switch address but I was hoping for a neater programming solution.   Many thanks in advance   Paul Hallam-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 03:59:57 GMT. From: "McEagle" <spam@spam.com>c- Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detectionA< Message-ID: <1ZW6a.42091$Cv4.812855@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  - How about PINGing the switch every x minutes?    Mike  8 "Paul Hallam" <paul_hallam@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:5ed44bd3.0302251155.40bed343@posting.google.com...mG > We have a situation where a program assigns a channel, socket etc andyC > then listens on the IP port for communication from several cliente= > systems. Each message from the clients is replied to BUT nor@ > communication is actually initiated from our ALPHA - it is all > initiated by the clients.f > G > The clients are routed to our systems from various locations and pass H > through a cisco switch just before physically connecting to the Alpha. > G > The problem is that if the switch fails our clients are automaticallyuG > routed to our standby system by a router a little further up the line G > BUT I can't seem to make the Alpha realise that the switch has failed B > and perform some extra work. It just sits there listening on the
 > channel. >sG > Does anyone know if there is a system service that I can periodicallyiF > call that will be able to determin if there is no 'life' outside the > Alpha.F > Remember in this situation there is nothing wrong with the device we8 > are using, there is just nothing for it to connect to. >hF > If necessary we could set up command procedures to periodically pingH > the switch address but I was hoping for a neater programming solution. >u > Many thanks in advance >i
 > Paul Hallamo >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:58:47 -0400b0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detections/ Message-ID: <3E5C4986.104D2450@vl.videotron.ca>t   McEagle wrote: > / > How about PINGing the switch every x minutes?d  I I was about to ask a very similar question.  PING every X minutes doesn't ) provide instant notification of problem. >  J There should be some sort of service you can establish a connection to andF leave "idle" 7/24, with an AST triggered if the connection is broken.   , Apart from pinging, is there any other way ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:27:39 +0100t" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?i6 Message-ID: <b3gjk6$1m1a8a$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C schreef in bericht news:00A1BFD2.0173DD5C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU...s	 > Gang --n > K > I've got an (EDU-licensed) AlphaServer 2100 4/200 at home, which I boughte cheaplG > from a grad student who'd bought it my mistake at an auction.  It was-	 headless;eJ > I think it was probably a network-based storage server in a former life, since.J > it contained an ATM->FDDI card and two SCSI cards in addition to the one that7 > worked in the pedestal.  Single processor, 128mb ram.s >eK > (1) Whenever I boot it, it always says "VGA BIOS failure; status=1", eveny ifK > I have a card in there.  (It's a supported card, but I don't know if it'so good7 > -- I'm generally better with software than hardware.)g >bI > I eventually got it talking to me over the serial console.  I installed I > OpenVMS 7.2-2 and TCP/IP services 5.1, then upgraded TCP/IP services toVJ > 5.3, which is the same thing I have running on the other VMS box in thatL > room.   I gave it a static IP address in the small range I own, configuredE > it essentially the same as the box that works, plugged the built-ingJ > Ethernet adapter (which may never have been used, but was - according toK > the console - set on AUI) into my little hub, and got nothing - nada - noc > good.n > I > So I spent ten bucks on a DE500-BA on eBAY, put it in, changed the plug  over.% >%J > (1) There are three little lights on the DE500; two of them are out, one of6 > them regularly blinks faintly.  Is this a good sign? >%H > (2) The hub has activity lights; it recognizes that something's on the otheroL > end of the cable that's plugged in to the DE500.  (I moved it from slot to slotJ > and it still recognized something was there.)  So I don't think I have a breakt > in my cable. >nE > The console settings and the LANCP settings agree that the DE500 iseJ > half-duplex 10 megabit per second twisted pair, and I've tried this with* > other configurations and gotten nowhere. >DL > TCPIP SHOW INTERFACE shows that it sends on the DE500, but doesn't receive! > anything.  Is it not listening?e >01 How many devices show up if you type SHOW DEV E ?@J You wrote about a "built-in" adapter, that could be a DE500 as well. If soG you'd see EWA0 and EWB0 devices in which case you need to configure them latter for TCPIP.w. What happens if you configure DECnet phase IV?   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:59:25 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)i7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?c< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251459.2ecbe28@posting.google.com>  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E5B6320.3347F93E@127.0.0.1>... 3 > Have you run the ECU on it? EISA Config Utility ?m  A The DE500 is a PCI board.  I can't see how the EISA Configurationi Utility would be involved.  ? At the console prompt, what settings do you see for the consoled environment variable(s):   >>> SHOW EW*MODE   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:09:28 GMTmL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?36 Message-ID: <00A1C068.5AD2F570@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  T In article <3E5B6320.3347F93E@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:+ >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:k >>   >... >a2 >Have you run the ECU on it? EISA Config Utility ? >pG >I've had a case where the system does not request the ECU, however all G >the installed boards were not recognized until I'd run it. I could seed. >the boards from VMS, but I had odd behaviour.  O The DE500 is a PCI card.  Should the EISA Config Utility affect that? If so, it O sounds promising.  (Sounds extra-promising because it didn't seem to believe ini* the video card I had in that slot before.)  O Do you know where I can get it?  (I have other VMS systems with floppies, so if.9 its downloadable like the firmware upgrades, I can deal.)M   Thanks,    -- AlanR        O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056aM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:10:40 -08007$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?,0 Message-ID: <01C2DCE0.1328EF30@sulfer.icius.com>  F Unfortunately, there's some issues with licensing that prevent it fromE being offered as a download. I was looking for it recently. Luckily ItH found a stack of historical ones hiding in a corner of the office. SinceH the DE500 is PCI, as has been mentioned by others, I'd be very surprised if it would be of use to you.   C If (wink) you really need it (wink) sadly I couldn't (wink) zip theo: contents and send them to you. Oh no, that would be wrong. (winkwinkwink)   ShaneO  $ From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU  3 In article <3E5B6320.3347F93E@127.0.0.1>, Nic ClewsA  <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:+ >Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:O >>   >... >02 >Have you run the ECU on it? EISA Config Utility ? >RG >I've had a case where the system does not request the ECU, however allSG >the installed boards were not recognized until I'd run it. I could see:. >the boards from VMS, but I had odd behaviour.  H The DE500 is a PCI card.  Should the EISA Config Utility affect that? If so, itD sounds promising.  (Sounds extra-promising because it didn't seem to
 believe in* the video card I had in that slot before.)  ? Do you know where I can get it?  (I have other VMS systems witho floppies, so ift9 its downloadable like the firmware upgrades, I can deal.)b   Thanks,m   -- Alano        H ======================================================================== =======c0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU?  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:1 650/926-3056E  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CAW 94025tH ======================================================================== =======t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:14:13 GMT,L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?j6 Message-ID: <00A1C069.04CFE75E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  [ In article <b3gjk6$1m1a8a$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:a >O >>2 >How many devices show up if you type SHOW DEV E ?    show dev e-  . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. EWA0:                   Online               0. EWB0:                   Online               0. EWB2:                   Online               0. EWB3:                   Online               0. EWB4:                   Online               0 $t  J (The console saw both EWA0 and EWB0; I didn't configure WE0 for IP but did configure WE1.    K >You wrote about a "built-in" adapter, that could be a DE500 as well. If so   H >you'd see EWA0 and EWB0 devices in which case you need to configure the >latter for TCPIP.    G Device EWA0:, device type TULIP, is online, network device, device is af template	     only.a  O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  0kO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot              S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,WrO     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 5120   $ show dev ewb0/full  G Device EWB0:, device type DE500, is online, network device, device is a, template	     only.   O     Error count                    0    Operations completed                  0vO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]hO     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot              S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W'O     Reference count                0    Default buffer size                 512    $ tcpip show interfaceB                                                            PacketsO Interface   IP_Addr         Network mask          Receive          Send     MTUh  O  LO0        127.0.0.1       255.0.0.0                 319           319    4096eO  WE1        64.167.114.250  255.255.255.248             0            41    1500e $   G Is there some TCPIP configuration I need to do outside of TCPIP$CONFIG?   / >What happens if you configure DECnet phase IV?e  K I'll have to install it to try that.  (I meant to go with Phase V over IP.)    -- Alan:  O ===============================================================================g0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056SM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:46:29 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?s6 Message-ID: <00A1C075.E850CEA8@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  p In article <cf15391e.0302251459.2ecbe28@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:Z >Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3E5B6320.3347F93E@127.0.0.1>...4 >> Have you run the ECU on it? EISA Config Utility ? >gB >The DE500 is a PCI board.  I can't see how the EISA Configuration >Utility would be involved.  > @ >At the console prompt, what settings do you see for the console >environment variable(s):  >  >>> SHOW EW*MODEn  H I'm no longer where I can cut and paste from the 2100 console.  However,I EWA0_MODE originally was set to AUI and I set it to twisted_pair, becausee3 that's what I had (with the MMJ-style connector).  u  L I know better than to leave EWB0_MODE at autosense; that never worked on theJ 2100 I used to have here.  I've messed with EWB0_MODE and tried it at 100 K full-duplex, 100 half-duplex, 10 full duplex, and plain 10, using LANCP to -( make VMS agree with the console setting.   No joy.    -- Alan     O ===============================================================================50  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056oM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:06:40 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface?c/ Message-ID: <3E5C210E.2CE2CE1C@vl.videotron.ca>i   Shane Smith wrote:E > If (wink) you really need it (wink) sadly I couldn't (wink) zip theh< > contents and send them to you. Oh no, that would be wrong. > (winkwinkwink)  M How dare you refuse to help a fellow VMS supporter in need when you have whatr
 he needs ....n   <wink><wink>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:29:04 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS,. Message-ID: <3E5BB5EF.8E67082@vl.videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:I > David, something tells me you've never worked in a situation with armed 7 > personnel, and you need to justify blowing your nose.l  I OK, so HP can't brag about Alpha and VMS being used to obtain those phone1H conversations from Hussein etc. But HP should be able to brag about "the% military trusts VMS, shouldn't you ?"9    K HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don't we heardN about all the supposed oter stiock exchanges that are supposdly based on VMS ?I  I keep hearing about VMS being widespread use at stock exchanges, yet, Iu3 don't hear much about it with real stock exchanges.e  M I know Montreal (which is no longer a stock exchange) had used VMS and dumped K it. Not quite the reference site you want.  Are there other stock exchanges K that are truly committed with VMS, or do they have on foot out of the door, G testing waters and developing the new applications on other platforms ?i   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:18:13 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSm; Message-ID: <01KSVAOMN39E9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   H > HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don't weF > hear about all the supposed oter stiock exchanges that are supposdlyG > based on VMS ? I keep hearing about VMS being widespread use at stock@J > exchanges, yet, I don't hear much about it with real stock exchanges.=20  J I work at the stock exchange in Frankfurt, which is very real.  I'm not=20E divulging any company secrets if I say that essentially the entire=20 E backend stuff runs on VMS.  I can't realistically imaging it being=20aD otherwise, nor any realistic reason for desiring it to be otherwise.  H > I know Montreal (which is no longer a stock exchange) had used VMS andJ > dumped it. Not quite the reference site you want.  Are there other stoc= k J > exchanges that are truly committed with VMS, or do they have on foot ou= t J > of the door, testing waters and developing the new applications on othe= r  > platforms ?=20  H Go to http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/ and click on "Customer quotes".C There you can read (this quote has been up there for about a year):o  J ---------8<--------------------------------------------------------------= -s  D "We are very impressed with the new AlphaServer system because it=20K provides a secure, resilient and powerful path forward that protects and=20aE builds on our application investments. The advances in redundancy,=20lI memory bandwidth and I/O capabilities delivered by the new distributed=20mI mesh architecture, will allow us to meet our growing user requirements=20nI by consolidating very large and powerful SMP configurations in an easy=20r to manage, single system."   Gerd Koebschalls Head of Xetra/Eurex Operations Deutsche Boerse SystemsM  J ---------8<--------------------------------------------------------------= -P  9 Yes, we are developing new applications with VMS and Rdb.t  K There are certainly other stock exchanges which run VMS.  The Swedish OM=20AF company, for example, is responsible for the software at many stock=20E exchanges, and a lot of them run VMS (and, I believe, Rdb, as we do).      --=20-H Phillip Helbig              Email ... helbphi@sysdev.Deutsche-Boerse.comJ Deutsche B=F6rse Systems AG   Email ... Phillip.Helbig@Deutsche-Boerse.co= miH Xetra/Eurex Operations      Tel. ...................... +49 69 2101 4921H 60485 Frankfurt am Main     Fax ....................... +49 69 2101 3411  H My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer and, no, I don't=20 have any stock tips for you.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:34:10 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS,; Message-ID: <01KSVB2L38CO9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  J > Go to http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/ and click on "Customer quotes".E > There you can read (this quote has been up there for about a year):   I I just realised it doesn't mention VMS.  OK, point taken.  :-|  On the=20sJ other hand, surely no-one would think we are running unix or NT on this=20 hardware?!  :-|a  E Getting back to Sue's comment that HP's policy is not to advertise=205@ operating systems, then I guess we shouldn't expect to see HP=20I publicising any of their operating systems.  Which makes me wonder why=20 K they put so much effort---with a disastrous result---in to thinking up a=20tE new name?  Why do you need a name if you don't advertise the product?n  , Customer: I want to buy an operating system.  " Salesman: We only offer solutions.  G Customer: I want to write my own application and I need an operating=20            system to run it on.  ! Salesman: But we can offer you...o  . Customer: (raises voice) I SAID I wanted to...  , Salesman: (whispering) OK, what do you want?  
 Customer: VMSs  J Salesman: (pulls curtain quickly aside and pushes customer through to a=20.           back room) Don't let anyone see you!  F When http://www.montypython.net/ is back up, try to find the sketch=20C where a shop owner sells pornography in a shop disguised to sell=20l& something else.  Very visual, se=F1or.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:48:46 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSl/ Message-ID: <3E5BBA8C.8DBE585E@vl.videotron.ca>p   Carl Karcher wrote:uF > They would probably welcome this. Then they could out-source all VMSI > development to their growing Bangalore operation and save a whole bunchTA > of money by closing ZKO entirely. Just like they did with theirg > financial services:t  " From a recent ALL-IN-1 newsletter:  I    Several of the products we have so far developed and supported will be H    now maintained and supported have been taken over by our sister groupE    in Bangalore, who have more resources than we have in Reading, andoH    (being a larger group) are better equipped to channel effort where itH    is needed. . The Bangalore team has rich experience in supporting andH    enhancing products in the Mail and Messaging domain, and they will beB    responsible for certifying these products on future releases ofI    OpenVMS on Alpha. Product Management remains unchanged in the hands ofs   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:12:30 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSiH Message-ID: <2%Q6a.80637$Zr%.54760@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KSVB2L38CO9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...eA > Go to http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/ and click on "Customer  quotes".E > There you can read (this quote has been up there for about a year):G  F I just realised it doesn't mention VMS.  OK, point taken.  :-|  On theB other hand, surely no-one would think we are running unix or NT on this hardware?!  :-|C  B Getting back to Sue's comment that HP's policy is not to advertise= operating systems, then I guess we shouldn't expect to see HP.F publicising any of their operating systems.  Which makes me wonder whyF they put so much effort---with a disastrous result---in to thinking up apE new name?  Why do you need a name if you don't advertise the product?-  , Customer: I want to buy an operating system.  " Salesman: We only offer solutions.  D Customer: I want to write my own application and I need an operating           system to run it on.  ! Salesman: But we can offer you...s  . Customer: (raises voice) I SAID I wanted to...  , Salesman: (whispering) OK, what do you want?  
 Customer: VMSt  E Salesman: (pulls curtain quickly aside and pushes customer through ton a .           back room) Don't let anyone see you!  C When http://www.montypython.net/ is back up, try to find the sketcht@ where a shop owner sells pornography in a shop disguised to sell$ something else.  Very visual, seor.   Sir Phillip Sydney?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:10:51 GMT'# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS H Message-ID: <f5Q6a.79880$Zr%.23544@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaget( news:3E5BB5EF.8E67082@vl.videotron.ca... > Nic Clews wrote:E > > David, something tells me you've never worked in a situation with  armed-9 > > personnel, and you need to justify blowing your nose.M > E > OK, so HP can't brag about Alpha and VMS being used to obtain thosee phonesE > conversations from Hussein etc. But HP should be able to brag about' "the' > military trusts VMS, shouldn't you ?"i >m >,E > HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don'ta we hearcA > about all the supposed oter stiock exchanges that are supposdlye based on VMS ?D >  I keep hearing about VMS being widespread use at stock exchanges, yet, I5 > don't hear much about it with real stock exchanges.o >oD > I know Montreal (which is no longer a stock exchange) had used VMS
 and dumpedC > it. Not quite the reference site you want.  Are there other stockh	 exchangespC > that are truly committed with VMS, or do they have on foot out ofc	 the door,e= > testing waters and developing the new applications on otherf platforms ?n    D Most, if not all, exchanges that use software from OM Group (Sweden) run VMS.  B Some exchanges that I know of running VMS for some or all of their trading are: Deutsche Boerses Swissn ISEa TSX  ASXi   There are a bunch more.I  D HP should do a full page WSJ ad with the logos of all their exchange& customers, with text to the effect of:  F "Billions of dollars change hands each day on exchanges all around the world.> That's why these stock exchanges can't afford to miss even one0 transaction during the course of an entire year.> That's why they rely on the proven capabilities of OpenVMS and Alphaservers from HP.s1 Shouldn't your company have this reliability too?i  E Contact an OpenVMS specialist at one of the numbers below to find out E how OpenVMS can make your company more competitive and your computingd' more reliable."  <- - the double whammy   0 Copyright 2003, John Smith. All Rights Reserved.  @ Then they should have a bunch of (800) (or equivalent) telephoneA numbers for US, Canada, UK, etc listed at the bottom of the ad...kD staffed by people who know VMS, not just some call center in Podunk,8 Mississippi where all they know about is Microsoft Word.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:08:37 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>n Subject: RE: The End of OpenVMSNT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9D55@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,o  @ >>> OpenVMS LapDance (tm) certainly would be a 'hot' product.<<<  / Great example of portable integration though ..e   :-)b  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultante Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesd Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)a OpenVMS DCL - the original .COM:     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  Sent: February 24, 2003 5:15 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSh      1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in messaget* news:01C2DBF9.8A1D4970@sulfer.icius.com...+ > >From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] @ > >"Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message=200 > >news:VOoge4xptGA5@eisner.encompasserve.org... > >> In article  >lF ><BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660DB3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.n et0 > >t>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:
 > >> > JF, > >> >F > >> > So, while there will be official names, as I understand it, the
 > >reality$ > >> > is that what we will have is: > >> > > >> > OpenVMS VAX > >> > OpenVMS Alpha > >> > OpenVMS I64 > >> > OpenVMS xx? > >>B > >> And a special version for the most profitable industry on the > >Internet: > >>>e > >>   OpenVMS xxx > >>* > >> >             .. could not resist :-) > >> > >> Nor could I.  > >d > >hG > >just watch...Intel/hp will come after me for divulging details of=20l* > >their newest mobile processor offering: > >h! > >OpenVMS LapDance (tm) platforma > D > I can just see the adverts now, someone slowly removing the panels from
 > a Marvel...R    9 OpenVMS LapDance (tm) certainly would be a 'hot' product.a   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:47:10 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)t Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSd= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251547.3c642d48@posting.google.com>   f JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5BB5EF.8E67082@vl.videotron.ca>...M > HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don't we hearoR > about all the supposed other stiock exchanges that are supposedly based on VMS ?   Australian Stock Exchange:7    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/asx/a
 Brokertec:    http://www.brokertec.com/ Deutsche Brse: =    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/borchesitee# International Securities Exchange: -6    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/ise OM Technology: S;    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/omtestima SWX Swiss Exchange: R    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/Swiss-stock-exchange/index.html Tel Aviv Stock Exchange: PE    http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/reliabilityvsavailability.htm   F OM runs several exchanges and sells software that runs many others (ofD many types, including commodities, power, derivatives (options), and so forth, not just stocks).a  B While I was at ISE, I was told that based on customer demand a fewB years back, OM went to the trouble of porting its software to UnixE (AIX).  (ISE looked at both, and chose VMS over AIX before the time Id> got there.)  I was told that since the code was ported, only 4C customers (I think they had more than 180  at the time) opted to goSF the IBM route, and as of that date, 3 of the 4 had given up and thrown@ out AIX and implemented with VMS instead, and the 4th was a year1 overdue starting up and might yet convert to VMS.a  B The newest OM site I'm aware of is EDX London -- a new derivativesA exchange which is a joint venture between OM and the London Stockr? Exchange.  They will use OM's CLICK exchange and SECUR clearingaI software.  See  http://www.omgroup.com/company/pdf/EDX-021209-english.pdfoB  This document mentions some other OM sites in addition to those I
 listed above:x   American Stock Exchangen   Athens Derivatives Exchangen   Borsa Italiana"   Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing   SFE Corporation in Sydneya   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:19:41 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSD' Message-ID: <3E5C243D.1CA8FEFB@fsi.net>    Nic Clews wrote: > [snip]7 > You cannot discretely say "oh such and such uses VMS"R  , See, *THAT'S* the point you haven't got yet.  F Go back and re-re-read me *AGAIN*, and again and again and ... and seeF if you can pick it up this time. Spend at least an hour with it. Then,F if you *STILL* can figure it out, I'll quote myself and dissect it for you.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:23:37 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSb' Message-ID: <3E5C2529.42464111@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > h > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5BB5EF.8E67082@vl.videotron.ca>...O > > HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don't we hearnT > > about all the supposed other stiock exchanges that are supposedly based on VMS ? >  > Australian Stock Exchange:9 >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/asx/i > Brokertec: >    http://www.brokertec.com/ > Deutsche Brse: ? >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/borchesite $ > International Securities Exchange:8 >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/ise > OM Technology:= >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/omtestimv > SWX Swiss Exchange:nT >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/Swiss-stock-exchange/index.html > Tel Aviv Stock Exchange:G >    http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/unix/reliabilityvsavailability.htm  > H > OM runs several exchanges and sells software that runs many others (ofF > many types, including commodities, power, derivatives (options), and > so forth, not just stocks).o > D > While I was at ISE, I was told that based on customer demand a fewD > years back, OM went to the trouble of porting its software to UnixG > (AIX).  (ISE looked at both, and chose VMS over AIX before the time I_@ > got there.)  I was told that since the code was ported, only 4E > customers (I think they had more than 180  at the time) opted to gooH > the IBM route, and as of that date, 3 of the 4 had given up and thrownB > out AIX and implemented with VMS instead, and the 4th was a year3 > overdue starting up and might yet convert to VMS.  > D > The newest OM site I'm aware of is EDX London -- a new derivativesC > exchange which is a joint venture between OM and the London Stock A > Exchange.  They will use OM's CLICK exchange and SECUR clearingEK > software.  See  http://www.omgroup.com/company/pdf/EDX-021209-english.pdf D >  This document mentions some other OM sites in addition to those I > listed above:T >   American Stock Exchangey >   Athens Derivatives Exchangep >   Borsa Italiana$ >   Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing >   SFE Corporation in Sydneyn   Keith,  B My compliments on having the courage to name names. Your company's* manager(s) of marketing should be so bold.  G Since word-of-mouth is all VMS has to go on these days, let's hope that_@ your post as part of the Usenet archives at Google is a positive contribution to VMS's future._   -- _ David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/N   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:28:09 -0600,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS ' Message-ID: <3E5C2639.E1533176@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3E5AE3DA.379AC3B9@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:rL > > PATCO's issue was their right to strike for higher wages. Their contractD > > said no right to strike, that's the leverage the "leaders" used. > G >   IIRC it is the law that siad no right to strike.  But as governmenttG >   contractors have found in the past, no contract is more stable than F >   the law on which it is based, and the government controls the law.   You're probably right.  G Hp would indeed have to question its own wisdom if it found itself in a F position to consider action against the majority of its senior OpenVMS technical staff.  E Then again, speaking from current experience, I've found little or noa> consideration or value accorded to either length or breadth of0 experience in the current workplace environment.  E ...not mention the low likelihood of convincing enough folks to "stepn0 over the line" to make a significant difference.   FWIW...    --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:29:19 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMSI' Message-ID: <3E5C267F.2CFE5DC6@fsi.net>=   Carl Karcher wrote:S > = > In a previous article, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:Z > J > ->... My point was that if VMS Engineering resigned en-mass - who'd takeH > ->their place? The only way HP could possibly re-staff VMS EngineeringJ > ->would be to re-hire people who were previously fired or resigned - for/ > ->much higher salaries - if they came at all.e > F > They would probably welcome this. Then they could out-source all VMSI > development to their growing Bangalore operation and save a whole bunchyA > of money by closing ZKO entirely. Just like they did with theira > financial services:o > B >   http://www.interex.org/insidehp/articles/insidehp10.22.02.html  @ Truly, "management expertise" is becoming as much an oxymoron as "military intelligence".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:16:28 -0400P0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only/ Message-ID: <3E5BC107.A5680374@vl.videotron.ca>   H Not quite the right output, but it gets you the desired information in a
 "native" way:D  + $dump myfile.text /record=(start:1,count:5)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:10:37 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>7 Subject: RE: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2 0 Message-ID: <01C2DCBE.8BE542B0@sulfer.icius.com>  F If you only want the first line, SHOW SYS/NOPROC seems to do that justD fine without the intermediate type step. Can't test the full command* though, I'm on a 6.2 system at the moment.   Shane    -----Original Message------ From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.orgn0 [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]( Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 5:54 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com_7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2J    ? In article <BA800D86.4F08%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron_  <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes: > N > That turns out to be only half the problem. I need to get that result into aJ > dcl symbol. For example. Even though this does not work, you can get the" > just of what I am trying to do : > G > $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$INPUT FIRSTLINEe >  > Or > F > $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$PIPE FIRSTLINE >   )   You want the first line of show system?o  G   $pipe show system | ( read sys$input line ; define/job result &line )/  D   That get's it into a job logical name, close enough?  You can use .   f$trnlnm to get it into a symbol from there.  7   Now if you wanted line 2, you might need a .com file.n   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 12:54:46 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)s7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2y- Message-ID: <HmHAI0lEGxRo@malvm7.mala.bc.ca.>s  3 In article <BA804188.4F33%JCam90502@jcameron.com>,  1     Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:.  J >> 1.) Whats wrong with just opening the file in DCL and reading the first( >> ( or nth) line from it into a symbol? > J > I realize this can be done, but I wanted to avoid opening a file for the# > sake of clean code and execution.  >   I    OK, but your original subject specified typing the Nth line of a file.lF If that is the goal then reading the file through DCL is just as clean1 (IMHO) as using some variant of a "TYPE" command.T  M > The SHOW SYS is just to illustrate the problem, the actual application is a M > bit more involved. I just used SHOW SYS for an example. The overall need is)L > to get the Nth line of sys$output into a DCL symbol without opening a file > For temporary access.  > H    Fair enough, the technique I specified should work with anything that writes to SYS$OUTPUT._   >> _ >>  $read sys$pipe x  >>  $assign/job "''x'" mylogical	 >>  $exite > K >  This is a variation of exactly how I am doing it now, and my hope was to_G > eliminate the need for a second command procedure and a logical name.  >> f  G     You could eliminate the second command procedure by having the code J inside your main command procedure file and selecting that code path basedL on a parameter you pass to it ( ie it would still be two different "logical"F procedures but they could live in the same file if that makes the codeH management easier ). I don't see how you can eliminate the logical givenD the parameters you've specified - setting a symbol as part of a PIPEE stream is no use to anyone outside the subprocess created to run thateK segment of the stream. You need to store the information at the JOB contextP4 or above to pass it back to the originating process.   > L > I realize I'm putting on a lot of unnecessary requirements, but my goal is > to humble a unix protagonist.a >   L    If you're trying to fight a "VMS is bad because it doesn't do it the sameM way as Unix" argument you're probably wasting your time. For example, there's K nothing in DCL that exactly emulates the Unix "backtick" method for settingrF symbols, but the method we've discussed here does pretty much the sameG thing - a caveat being that the job logical is more "global", so if you G used the technique extensively you'd need to be careful about not usinge8 the same logical name in conflicting command procedures.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:36:30 -0500 ' From: Chris Olive <nospam@raytheon.com>t7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2s; Message-ID: <AmR6a.44$35.636@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com>h   Jeff Cameron wrote:g! > On 2/25/03 12:09 AM, in articlem> > a98cd882.0302250009.6fb7b4ad@posting.google.com, "Bart Zorn" > <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote: >  > 8 >>Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> wrote in message0 >>news:<BA800D86.4F08%JCam90502@jcameron.com>... >>	 >>>Part 1H >>>=I >>>This should be a simple question, but I dont know how to do it. And I ! >>>thought I was a VMS expert ...  >>>  >>>$TYPE/TAIL=n filename >>> 0 >>>Displays the last "n" lines in a file. Great! >>> ' >>>How do you type the first "n" lines?o >>> N >>>I'm not doing this interactively, so dont tell me /PAGE because it must beE >>>done in a PIPE command to pass only the first n lines of the file.h >>> 	 >>>Part 2p >>> O >>>That turns out to be only half the problem. I need to get that result into a K >>>dcl symbol. For example. Even though this does not work, you can get ther# >>>just of what I am trying to do :  >>> H >>>$PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$INPUT FIRSTLINE >>>  >>>Org >>> G >>>$PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$PIPE FIRSTLINE  >>> F >>>I would like to do this without opening and writing a file to disk. >> >>A way to do this:  >>B >>$ pipe show system | ( read sys$pipe line ; def/job line &line ) >> >>G >>Then you have a JOB logical name LINE wich contains the first line ofNF >>the output of SHOW SYSTEM. There is no need to insert a pipe segmentA >>to only pass the first line because the rest is simply ignored.o >># >>Note the & substitution operator.o >> >>HTH, >> >>Bart Zorn  >  >  Bart, > D > Thank you very much. This seems to be the closest I'm gonna get. I > Tried the following,A > $ pipe show system | ( read sys$pipe line ; newline :== &line ) D > In hopes that newline would hang around being a global symbol, but> > It didn't, so the best I can do is a VMS two line solution : > : > $ pipe xdpyinfo | sear sys$input "number of screens" | -. >  ( read sys$pipe line ; def/job line &line ) > $ y = f$trnlnm("line") >  > To UNIX's one :sA > set y = `xdpyinfo | grep "number of screens" | cut -d' '  -f 4`  >  > Thank you very much. >  > And thanks to all who helped.  >  > Jeff >   B Well... how did your "argument" with your Unix pundit turn out, I C wonder?  It's an interesting argument considering several things I _H considered here.  Like the history of PIPE, the number of fork/execs in E your friend's Unix command (commands) versus the number of spawns in 7F yours (3 vs. 2 if I counted correctly), and a number of other things. I It's amazing how we get into these battles comparing apples to oranges...5  < Anyway, how'd it turn out?  Does your friend think he "won?"   Chris  -----  Chris Olivei Systems Consultant' Raytheon Technical Services Corporation  Indianapolis, IN  * email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 14:10:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s7 Subject: RE: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2m3 Message-ID: <1YynegRcDHcz@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  W In article <01C2DCBE.8BE542B0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:_H > If you only want the first line, SHOW SYS/NOPROC seems to do that justF > fine without the intermediate type step. Can't test the full command, > though, I'm on a 6.2 system at the moment.  C    1.	I thought SHOW SYSTEM was just an example for this discussionf> 	and the real goal was to process some other file.  After all,< 	SHOW SYSTEM could be emulated with lexical functions, since< 	emulating SHOW SYSTEM was a major test vehicle when lexical, 	functions were introduced to DCL (VMS V3?).  =    2.	The original requirement was not to see the output, butx 	to get it into a DCL symbol.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:53:56 GMTl+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>f7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2 2 Message-ID: <BA816C43.5032%JCam90502@jcameron.com>   On 2/25/03 1:36 PM, in article< AmR6a.44$35.636@dfw-service2.ext.raytheon.com, "Chris Olive" <nospam@raytheon.com> wrote:   > Jeff Cameron wrote:e" >> On 2/25/03 12:09 AM, in article? >> a98cd882.0302250009.6fb7b4ad@posting.google.com, "Bart Zorn"  >> <Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl> wrote:  >>   >> -: >>> Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> wrote in message2 >>> news:<BA800D86.4F08%JCam90502@jcameron.com>... >>>  >>>> Part 1O >>>> TK >>>> This should be a simple question, but I dont know how to do it. And I # >>>> thought I was a VMS expert ...W >>>>   >>>> $TYPE/TAIL=n filename >>>> O2 >>>> Displays the last "n" lines in a file. Great! >>>> i) >>>> How do you type the first "n" lines?  >>>> iP >>>> I'm not doing this interactively, so dont tell me /PAGE because it must beG >>>> done in a PIPE command to pass only the first n lines of the file.s >>>>   >>>> Part 2p >>>> nO >>>> That turns out to be only half the problem. I need to get that result into_ >>>> aM >>>> dcl symbol. For example. Even though this does not work, you can get thei% >>>> just of what I am trying to do :_ >>>> _J >>>> $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$INPUT FIRSTLINE >>>>   >>>> Orf >>>> TI >>>> $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$PIPE FIRSTLINE/ >>>> LH >>>> I would like to do this without opening and writing a file to disk. >>>  >>> A way to do this:  >>> D >>> $ pipe show system | ( read sys$pipe line ; def/job line &line ) >>>  >>> I >>> Then you have a JOB logical name LINE wich contains the first line oftH >>> the output of SHOW SYSTEM. There is no need to insert a pipe segmentC >>> to only pass the first line because the rest is simply ignored.  >>> % >>> Note the & substitution operator.o >>>  >>> HTH, >>> 
 >>> Bart Zorn  >>  	 >>  Bart,E >> 1E >> Thank you very much. This seems to be the closest I'm gonna get. Ir >> Tried the following,SB >> $ pipe show system | ( read sys$pipe line ; newline :== &line )E >> In hopes that newline would hang around being a global symbol, but ? >> It didn't, so the best I can do is a VMS two line solution :s >> f; >> $ pipe xdpyinfo | sear sys$input "number of screens" | -r/ >>  ( read sys$pipe line ; def/job line &line )  >> $ y = f$trnlnm("line")u >> w >> To UNIX's one :B >> set y = `xdpyinfo | grep "number of screens" | cut -d' '  -f 4` >>   >> Thank you very much.e >> 5  >> And thanks to all who helped. >> u >> Jefff >> n > C > Well... how did your "argument" with your Unix pundit turn out, IpD > wonder?  It's an interesting argument considering several things II > considered here.  Like the history of PIPE, the number of fork/execs in F > your friend's Unix command (commands) versus the number of spawns inG > yours (3 vs. 2 if I counted correctly), and a number of other things. K > It's amazing how we get into these battles comparing apples to oranges...  > > > Anyway, how'd it turn out?  Does your friend think he "won?" >  > Chris7 > -----d
 > Chris Olive  > Systems Consultant) > Raytheon Technical Services CorporationE > Indianapolis, IN > , > email: olivec(AT)indy(DOT)raytheon(DOT)com > J First of all, I appreciate all of the responses from this topic. Thank you all.   Chris,  K The point of comparing forks to spawns is a good one, which I will bring up  with my antithesis.   L He is a UNIX C programmer, so his mindset is the less keystrokes to solutionJ is the best. He thinks programs should be named after the person who wrote9 it. He refuses to learn java, says "C can do everything".   F On the other hand I'm a VMS (die-hard) FORTRAN programmer, and I'm notL afraid to use GOTOs properly. My mindset is the most efficiently executable,I is the best. I think programs should be named after what they do. I think D java is cool, but when it comes to numerical methods, I still prefer FORTRAN.  " And the war goes on... All in fun.   Jeff   Be sure to order your own # "OpenVMS DCL, The original dot COM" . Bumper sticker at http://www.jcameron.com/vms/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:15:57 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2o' Message-ID: <3E5C316D.E2DEC39A@fsi.net>    Jeff Cameron wrote:  >  > Part 1 > H > This should be a simple question, but I dont know how to do it. And I  > thought I was a VMS expert ... >  > $TYPE/TAIL=n filename  > / > Displays the last "n" lines in a file. Great!  > & > How do you type the first "n" lines? > M > I'm not doing this interactively, so dont tell me /PAGE because it must besD > done in a PIPE command to pass only the first n lines of the file. >  > Part 2 > N > That turns out to be only half the problem. I need to get that result into aJ > dcl symbol. For example. Even though this does not work, you can get the" > just of what I am trying to do : > G > $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$INPUT FIRSTLINEf >  > Or > F > $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | READ SYS$PIPE FIRSTLINE > E > I would like to do this without opening and writing a file to disk.J  H Well, I couldn't get that last bit about no disk file, but this did work1 for at least part of what you seem to want to do:    $ show system/out=temp.tmp
 $ pipe ( -)         write sys$output "set nonumb" ; -_#         write sys$output "1:14" ; - '         write sys$output "quit" ) | ( --*         define/user sys$input sys$pipe ; -.         edit/edt/nocommand/nojour temp.tmp ; ) $ exit  F It occurs to me that your example of READing from a pipeline works forF only the first record coming down the pipe. Even then, in order to use what you READ, you have to:t  . $PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | TYPE/FIRST=1 SYS$INPUT | -- 	( READ SYS$PIPE FIRSTLINE ; @some_com_proc )   E So, dunno just how to solve this while meeting 100% of your criteria.a   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 13:18:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)D( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <j9lpAF9qzL$e@eisner.encompasserve.org>   } In article <memo.20030225175555.1776A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>, duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) writes:y >  c >  Don Sykes wrote:uJ >  > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singleI >  > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.t > P > One useful thing about EDT is that it can be used (in line mode) on a minimal M > boot (e.g. where SYLOGICALS.COM has errors so that you have to use the SET  R > /STARTUP OPA0: trick to get in to fix your mess). EDT can be used on the "glass > > teletype" mode console - TPU wants at least VT100 emulation.  I But you have to learn a separate set of commands to use EDT in that mode.r; TECO does it with the same commands as full screen editing.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:41:39 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <3E5BB8E1.2D13B8D4@vl.videotron.ca>y   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:C > I NEVER SAID THAT TPU ISN'T MORE POWERFUL. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH-G > THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. NO ONE CONTESTS THAT. BUT MOST OF THE TIMEfG > I DON'T NEED THAT POWER AND IT JUST GETS IN ITS OWN WAY FOR DOING THER& > SIMPLE THINGS I DO MOST OF THE TIME.  L Wow, I didn't realise that the religious wars between EDT and TPU were stillD very much alive. Maybe there is still some hope for VMS after all...   :-) :-) :-)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 19:12:57 GMTe' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>-( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?+ Message-ID: <3E5BC0FA.75D66A69@pacbell.net>f   Alan, E Your points are clear, but I think we're seeing things from differentaE points of view. I'm not trying to get you to change. EDT as you pointpE out can do many things pretty easily. Whereas TPU is a language whichlF allows you to do many more things if you want to learn it. I'd love toD answer your questions in detail, but I'm in the process of moving my, office (out by Sat) and I have a lot to do. H If I get a chance later, I'll put a copy of my TPU editor source code at# http://alphase.com/special/tpu.zip.e   -- u   Have VMS, Will Travel  Wire paladin, San Francisco    (paladinATalphaseDOTcom)     "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > \ > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E5AC92B.3751044F@pacbell.net>... > > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > > > ` > > > Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E5A71B8.B80CB668@pacbell.net>... > > > > Bob Willard wrote:	 > > > > >l > > > > > Don Sykes wrote:Q > > > > > > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singlenP > > > > > > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.	 > > > > > M > > > > > And I can't think of a single thing that EDT can do that I can't doaJ > > > > > with a few hundred lines of FORTRAN, supplemented by a few MACROH > > > > > subroutines, and invoked from a few dozen lines of DCL.  Phew.	 > > > > >oL > > > > > ISTR wasting lots of night/weekend time customizing TPU to do whatH > > > > > EDT did out of the box.  The fact that EDT is a canned app can > > > > > save a lot of time.f > > > > > --L > > > > Good point I think, but the source TPU for many editors is available > " > Yes, and it's a damn good point! > L > > > The source for EDT is not available. Where are the line mode commands?C > > > Where are the nokeypad commands? Yes, the full screen mode isd, > > > emulated, but that's only part of EDT. > > >PP > > > > and, because it's TPU it's EXTENSIBLE. You can just add on and customize > > >bL > > > I think his point was that he doesn't want to customize TPU to do whatG > > > he already has in EDT. And that was only *one* of my many points.s > > > ! > > > You can also customize EDT.n > > >eN > > > > it. EDT is fine, for line editing, but it's limited, especially in the > > > > screen handling area.n > > >b! > > > Can you customize TPU to...a > > > = > > > display the key definitions you typed in using "LEARN"?p > > yes. >  > How? > ( > > > emulate EDT's ALL range-specifier? > > yes. > G > I already have it with EDT. And how much time do you have to waste tot > write it?p > B > > > edit fixed-width-record files without converting the file to# > > > variable-length-record files?a1 > > No. At least not with native functions AFAIK.- > G > Well, I have some fixed-width-record files to maintain. I'll use EDT.y > C > > > eliminate the spastic cursor movements when deleting words oro > > > characters? + > > I still don't see those with my editor.a > G > Well, some of us do. The cursor is always bouncing over to the end of ) > the line and back when you delete. Why?  > 0 > > > eliminate the spastic find next movements? > > Again I no see.t > F > I can't believe you don't get this. The highlighted search string inE > the file appears in a different screen coordinate with every press. F > First it might appear 4 lines from the top of the screen. Press FindC > Next again and it appears 4 lines from the bottom. Then top, theneG > bottom. I find it very irritating. It depends heavily on the contentsh > of the file. > 8 > > > avoid reading the entire file into virtual memory?J > > No. But that's not always so great. If I'm editing a big file and wantJ > > to go to the end, or do a search, I still have to wait for EDT to read9 > > it all in. So why not do it all up front? (retorical)p >  > Point for me.: > E > > > not insist I type case-independent search strings in lowercase?D > > yes. > B > PLEASE DO TELL US THE SECRET INCANTATIONS! You TPU advocates areH > always saying how great TPU is, and you tell us all these great thingsH > it can do, but you never show us how! "You can write a program!" Well,F > you can write an operating system too, but what good is that? And onH > those few occasions where you do show us how, it's always some snippetH > that's no good by itself. Or it's some lengthy, uncommented, code likeG > what JF recently posted. I don't even know what that code is supposed H > to do and I don't want to have to bother to figure it out. What is theB > point? I mean, it's like he's saying, "Here is some uncommented,G > incomprehensible code to demonstrate my point about how wonderful TPU  > is." > H > TPU advocacy is like an advertisement where there's always a catch. ItH > sounds great at first, but then once you buy the product, you find outD > it's not so great. A lot more than the batteries are not included.) > Parts not included, just raw materials.n > C > > > not take 2 to 3 seconds to process 11 lines of init commands? " > > I still don't see that either. > F > Here's the code. Maybe it's a bad interaction with SmarTerm. I don'tE > know. But EDT never has these bad interactions. Maybe it's just onefF > bad command among these. Can you tell me which? I'd guess the first.= > I'll try deleting that since it doesn't apply to me anyway.  > @ > TPU IF GET_INFO (SCREEN, "MOTIF") THEN SET (MOUSE,ON) ELSE SET > (MOUSE,OFF) ENDIFa# > ! DEF KEY=CONTROL-B SET WIDTH 132e" > ! DEF KEY=CONTROL-N SET WIDTH 80 > DEF KEY=F8 QUIT  > DEF KEY=GOLD-E EXIT2 > DEF KEY=GOLD-Q QUITh8 > DEF KEY=GOLD-X TPU WRITE_FILE (SELECT_RANGE,"TMP.TMP")# > DEF KEY=GOLD-LEFT  "SHIFT LEFT 8"%$ > DEF KEY=GOLD-RIGHT "SHIFT RIGHT 8" > SET CURSOR BOUND > SET NOEXIT ATTRIBUTE CHECK > SET SCROLL MARGIN 33% 33%x > SET NOWRAP > B > > > not to produce an annoying spasmodic display while doing so? > > ditto above. > B > Well, it does for me. I have SmarTerm 9.0a; WNT 4.0 SP6; TCPware0 > 5.3-3; MicroVAX 3100 80, 90, 95; VMS 6.1, 6.2. > + > > > emulate EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE feature?: > > Yes. > F > How, and how well does it work? I find this one particularly hard toF > believe as this question has come up before several times (guess whoF > brought it up! :-) and no one had a solution. Let's see it. I reallyH > find this one hard to believe. We're not talking SET WRAP here. That's > not the same thing.u >  > > > stay in line mode? > > Yes. >  > How? > H > > > And if you *can* customize TPU to do any of these things, how long/ > > > would it take and how well would it work?sH > > Depends on your skills, but once done, you shouldn't have to do themD > > again and you'd wind up with a super set of EDT + all the screen > > features of TPU! > E > But once done -- that's the showstopper. I don't have the time. EDTiF > already does 99% of what I need. So the very few times I need more I# > either use TPU or write some DCL.f > F > Yes, you can have this great car. Well, uh, you just get a basic carE > to start, but you get a kit that enables you to turn it into a realtH > luxury car! Yeah, it'll take up the next 5 years of your weekends, butH > once it's done, you'll have your basic car, plus everything you wantedA > in a luxury car! Of course, to steer the car, you'll have press F > several buttons every time. Step on the brakes? First you'll have to/ > answer some questions about stopping the car.  > B > Yes, you can have this great new operating system. And it can doF > host-based volume shadowing and full-blown VMSclustering! But you'llE > have to write the shadowing and clustering code yourself. Have fun.  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmano   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 12:03:18 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)h( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302251203.5debe97a@posting.google.com>d  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<NdKcnSpeTebkdsejXTWc3g@metrocast.net>... > what I find a bitiE > ominous is that there's no indication of any *specific* VMS-related N > development planned after early 2005 (yes, there's the "on-going enhancmentsE > blah blah blah" boilerplate, but that doesn't exactly reassure me).-  ? Are you really looking at the latest Roadmap? (Feb. 19)  A V8.xdF New-Feature release beyond 8.2 is shown with a late-2005 release date.C  The Unix Portability Initiative shows several significant features2E slated for late-2005 release, including fork() (and I know that's notaD an easy one; it wouldn't make sense to even even think about that if= VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows8F 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005.  There's a new releaseE of TCP/IP beyond 5.5 shown for the second half of 2005.  ACMS 5.1 and , DECforms 4.0 appear in the 2nd half of 2005.  D We know there will be new-hardware support, both for new systems andF new peripherals.  We know there will be bug fixes.  Based on what's inD the Roadmap, what has been added recently, and the many right-facing= arrows indicating continuing work beyond the end of the slidevE timescale, I think there's a clear pattern present that indicates VMS . development will be continuing long past 2005.  F > Well, I'm sure it's been more than 3 - 4 months since I last saw theL > roadmap, and the last date of any specific VMS-related enhancements hasn't
 > changed.  D The latest version came out Feb. 19, 2003 (just days ago).  The lastC several updates before that were August 12, October 3, November 14, 1 and January 29.  So it gets updated pretty often.e  C If it had been more than 3-4 months since you last saw it, you were ? way behind.  Comparing the 4-month-old October version with the   current February version, I see:  A There's a new VMS release there after 8.2.  For clusters, Version = 7.3-2 has been added, including Fast_Path for LANs.  The Unix,? Portability Initiative warranted a new slide of its own.  UnderWD Storage hardware, DRM II and Virtualization support has been added. E Under Enterprise Backup, OpenView Data Protector and Legato NetWorkeryD support has been added, as has ABS 4.2, HSM 4.2 and SLS 2.9H.  UnderF Storage Software has been added DRM II, DFO 2.8, MRU 1.7, SSM 1.7, andC RAID Software 2.6.  Under LAN HW, VMS 8.2 has been added, with dual D GbE NIC support and NetRAIN improvements.  Under Security, GnuPG andD VMS 8.1 have been added.  Under eBusiness, Secure Web Server 1.4 andF 2.0, Secure Web Browser 1.2.1 and on Itanium, DECforms 3.4 plus 4.0 onD Itanium, TP Web Connector 1.4 on Itanium have been added, as well asF RTR 5.0 on Itanium, ACMS 4.5, and ACMS 5.1 on Itanium, Java SDK 1.4.1,F IBM MQseries 5.1 and 5.2.  Under System Mgmt, Availability Manager 2.3D is new.  Under TCP/IP, version 5.4, and 5.5 on Itanium, and FailSAFEC IP are new.  For DCPS, version 2.3, unidirectional support, and PPDfE support were added.  DECforms 4.0 on Itanium has been added.  And I'mh sure I missed some.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:08:45 -0800>$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?0 Message-ID: <01C2DCC6.B7601D40@sulfer.icius.com>    Can't we all just get along? :-/  F Seriously though, I'm starting to think we need a TPU tricks & scriptsH repository. Somewhere we can pool our TPU extensions, and others can see< if someone's already written what they're looking for beforeB re-inventing the wheel. Does something like that already exist, or& should I look at putting one together?   Shanea   -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]m) Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:42 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?     "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:C > I NEVER SAID THAT TPU ISN'T MORE POWERFUL. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITHsG > THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. NO ONE CONTESTS THAT. BUT MOST OF THE TIMEsG > I DON'T NEED THAT POWER AND IT JUST GETS IN ITS OWN WAY FOR DOING THEs& > SIMPLE THINGS I DO MOST OF THE TIME.  F Wow, I didn't realise that the religious wars between EDT and TPU were still D very much alive. Maybe there is still some hope for VMS after all...   :-) :-) :-)S   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 15:05:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m( Subject: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <qr8+0MXqiWUx@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <01C2DCC6.B7601D40@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:T" > Can't we all just get along? :-/ > H > Seriously though, I'm starting to think we need a TPU tricks & scriptsJ > repository. Somewhere we can pool our TPU extensions, and others can see> > if someone's already written what they're looking for beforeD > re-inventing the wheel. Does something like that already exist, or( > should I look at putting one together? >  > ShaneB >   : 	Depends.  At this late date, perhaps a tutorial on how to1 	properly search Google?  i.e. groups.google.com:   & 		tpu search replace group:comp.os.vms/ 		tpu wildcard search replace group:comp.os.vmse  ? 	It really all comes down to search and replace and who does it, 	better.  A 	Now... "they" would run to me on occasion.  On occasion we would C 	have massive replaces of text strings in a file using another file 
 	as input.  C 	The key here was to split your window, read the replacement strings= 	file in the bottom window.  Begin your learn sequence in the,D 	top target window, going to the "other window" and grabbing stringsD 	and sticking them in the appropriate place in the top window, arrowF 	over , next word, etc. saving the learn sequence.  Do:, repeat, 1000. 	Get coffee.  A 	Yeah, Word Macros break down at that point.  vi?   Please . . .     				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:23:52 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <3E5C170A.30A671EA@vl.videotron.ca>r   Keith Parris wrote: ? > VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows>1 > 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005.r  H Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a fasterI ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that ittL requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is itI just a faster ethernet with tewaking of exsiting drivers to change timingo
 information ?r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:32:01 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?' Message-ID: <3E5C3531.3FE92474@fsi.net>f   JF Mezei wrote:s >  > Keith Parris wrote:eA > > VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows 3 > > 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005.n > J > Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a fasterK > ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that it.N > requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is itK > just a faster ethernet with tewaking of exsiting drivers to change timing  > information ?o  ; Hardware-specific drivers I should think would be an issue.J   -- m David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 19:45:36 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302251945.472897c3@posting.google.com>s  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<qr8+0MXqiWUx@eisner.encompasserve.org>...Y > In article <01C2DCC6.B7601D40@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: $ > > Can't we all just get along? :-/ > > J > > Seriously though, I'm starting to think we need a TPU tricks & scriptsL > > repository. Somewhere we can pool our TPU extensions, and others can see@ > > if someone's already written what they're looking for beforeF > > re-inventing the wheel. Does something like that already exist, or* > > should I look at putting one together? > > 	 > > Shane- >-< > 	Depends.  At this late date, perhaps a tutorial on how to3 > 	properly search Google?  i.e. groups.google.com:: > ( > 		tpu search replace group:comp.os.vms1 > 		tpu wildcard search replace group:comp.os.vmst  F Well, thanks, I'll just stick with EDT. When someone can do a good TPU? emulation of EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, and if someone is willing tosE translate my 262-line EDT initialization file into TPU, and show me am? way to do case-independent Find commands using uppercase search3A strings, and maybe a few other things from my other posts, let metC know. I'll take another look at regular use of EVE/TPU then. But innF the meanwhile, I'll use EVE/TPU (or write some DCL) only on those rare# occasions when EDT doesn't suffice.r  9 Also, I would have initially tried "tpu global substitutel8 group:comp.os.vms". Don't know how well that would work.  A > 	It really all comes down to search and replace and who does it5
 > 	better.  F No, it's "I've already got a fine solution for search and replace. WhyE should I bother with EVE and TPU?" And the answer given is "Well, youoB can do a whole lot of work to make a whole lot of cool things that5 you'll probably never need to use!" Yeah, yeah, yeah.    [...]e	 > 				Roba   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanT   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 20:02:30 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302252002.34c769c1@posting.google.com>9  \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2DCC6.B7601D40@sulfer.icius.com>...  " > Can't we all just get along? :-/  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   $ I don't want to write a TPU program.  & You can write a TPU program to do it!    I don't have the time.  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   E I don't want to learn three different languages for /init, /command, lA and /section. and Do-Command: Four! we have four languages at our 
 disposal! :-)   & You can write a TPU program to do it!   3 I'm happy with EDT. I can already do that with EDT.h  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   E I don't want, nor have the time, to rewrite my 262-line EDT init files in TPU.   & You can write a TPU program to do it!   * All these things bug me about EVE and TPU.  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   C EVE and TPU can't do EDT's SET TRUNCATE (Well, I'd love to see thisyD one over any other TPU extension if someone actually can make TPU do this.)  & You can write a TPU program to do it!    Oh yeah? Let's see it.  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   $ I don't want to write a TPU program.  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   C When the TPU advocates stop repeating themselves so bloody much and.= start listening a little better; and present clear, complete,t= relevant, to-the-point  examples, maybe we can get along. :-)h  & You can write a TPU program to do it!   H > Seriously though, I'm starting to think we need a TPU tricks & scriptsJ > repository. Somewhere we can pool our TPU extensions, and others can see> > if someone's already written what they're looking for beforeD > re-inventing the wheel. Does something like that already exist, or( > should I look at putting one together?  : Sounds good to me! Don't think I'll need it much, though.   a& You can write a TPU program to do it!    > Shanei >  > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]a+ > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 10:42 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt* > Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? >  >  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:E > > I NEVER SAID THAT TPU ISN'T MORE POWERFUL. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITHrI > > THAT. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. NO ONE CONTESTS THAT. BUT MOST OF THE TIMEeI > > I DON'T NEED THAT POWER AND IT JUST GETS IN ITS OWN WAY FOR DOING THEd( > > SIMPLE THINGS I DO MOST OF THE TIME. > H > Wow, I didn't realise that the religious wars between EDT and TPU were > stilllF > very much alive. Maybe there is still some hope for VMS after all... > 
 > :-) :-) :-)    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman4   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 20:11:33 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302252011.8855c59@posting.google.com>  Z Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E5BC0FA.75D66A69@pacbell.net>...   > Alan,yG > Your points are clear, but I think we're seeing things from different G > points of view. I'm not trying to get you to change. EDT as you point.G > out can do many things pretty easily. Whereas TPU is a language which H > allows you to do many more things if you want to learn it. I'd love toF > answer your questions in detail, but I'm in the process of moving my. > office (out by Sat) and I have a lot to do. J > If I get a chance later, I'll put a copy of my TPU editor source code at% > http://alphase.com/special/tpu.zip.v   Thanks!b  E Above all, if you really can make TPU to EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, pleaseaE share that secret with us. Other TPU experts have said that either itt? can't be done or that if it could be done, performance would bedF horrible. I really, really needed that once because I once had to editF some long-record files and EDT can't go past 255 chars per line. And IF might need it again and it is much harder and much more time consumingD to read long-record files when you don't have this capability. (SomeE have proposed some solutions, but they fell far short of the mark ando& thus weren't really solutions at all.)  F Next I'd like to do case-independent Finds with uppercase-typed searchD strings, and fix that spasmodic cursor flyabout during repeated Find Next commands.  F Sorry if I get seem too "grumpy" about this. It seems that no one gets7 my points and they just repeat their shticks about TPU.l  A And just how do you display key definitions that were entered via- LEARN?  , And my other questions if you have the time.   Thanks.u   [...]:   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmans   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 22:17:40 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)w( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <lh0nkzkw7M13@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E5C170A.30A671EA@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Keith Parris wrote:n@ >> VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows2 >> 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005. > J > Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a fasterK > ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that it-N > requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is itK > just a faster ethernet with tewaking of exsiting drivers to change timing@ > information ?   > 	A data point... Currently the best price out there (one month0 	ago anyhow) for 10 GBit enet is many thousands:  U http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=BkUdL8i5USZK%40eisner.encompasserve.org&oe=UTF-8T  [ http://www.computerworld.com/networkingtopics/networking/lanwan/story/0,10801,76979,00.htmle   I "Although most 10 Gigabit Ethernet offerings fall into the $50,000 range, O Enterasys Networks' recent rollout, priced under $30,000, could be the start of  a downward trend in pricing."p  @ 	One of the more interesting debates in my opinion is Infiniband> 	versus 10 GBit for high-end storage/interconnect.  InfinibandA 	is there (10 Gbit speed) today and quite a bit cheaper.  As BillrG 	points out, 10 Gbit often unnecessary (i.e. 1 Gbit more than adequate i 	for most situations).  < 	That said, articles point out 10 Gbit is *projected* not to3 	get cheap enough for 3 years, from that same post:m  [ http://www.computerworld.com/networkingtopics/networking/lanwan/story/0,10801,76977,00.html-  J "By 2006, the cost [for 10 GBit enet] will be $5,000 to $6,000 per port," L predicts Chandra Kopparapu, director of product marketing at San Jose-based $ switch vendor Foundry Networks Inc."   				Rob.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Feb 2003 22:10 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins).( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?- Message-ID: <25FEB200322100806@gerg.tamu.edu>t  2 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...G }Well, thanks, I'll just stick with EDT. When someone can do a good TPUo@ }emulation of EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, and if someone is willing toF }translate my 262-line EDT initialization file into TPU, and show me a@ }way to do case-independent Find commands using uppercase searchB }strings, and maybe a few other things from my other posts, let meD }know. I'll take another look at regular use of EVE/TPU then. But inG }the meanwhile, I'll use EVE/TPU (or write some DCL) only on those rareS$ }occasions when EDT doesn't suffice. } : }Also, I would have initially tried "tpu global substitute9 }group:comp.os.vms". Don't know how well that would work.  } B }> 	It really all comes down to search and replace and who does it }> 	better.m } G }No, it's "I've already got a fine solution for search and replace. WhyeF }should I bother with EVE and TPU?" And the answer given is "Well, youC }can do a whole lot of work to make a whole lot of cool things that 6 }you'll probably never need to use!" Yeah, yeah, yeah. }  }[...]
 }> 				Rob }  }Disclaimer: JMHOc }Alan E. Feldman  F Did that 262 line EDT init file spring fully formed from your foreheadG one afternoon, or did it take you some time to learn EDT well enough toe produce such a thing?   . I bet it took you time. Quite a bit, probably.  F As far as I can tell, your complaint is that EDT, which you have knownE how to use quite well for quite a long time, is easier for you to use E than EVE & TPU, which you have never learned how to use very well. To G this I say, "Well, duh!" This is not a surprising situation. It is just3G about always easier for someone to use something that they have learnedKH how to use that it is for them to use something that they havn't learned how to use..   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Feb 2003 22:50:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <nwnBMJrb$fcn@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <3E5C3531.3FE92474@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:t > JF Mezei wrote:  >> u >> Keith Parris wrote:B >> > VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows4 >> > 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005. >>  K >> Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a fasteriL >> ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that itO >> requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is itrL >> just a faster ethernet with tewaking of exsiting drivers to change timing >> information ? > = > Hardware-specific drivers I should think would be an issue.n  D Even if the hardware interface programming were identical,  a driverD written to run at one speed might not do well 10 times faster.  This0 is especially true at speeds that push the edge.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:09 -040010 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <3E5C48E8.17BFF2BA@vl.videotron.ca>n   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:G > Above all, if you really can make TPU to EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, pleaseu > share that secret with us.   [DO] DEFINE KEY ! Enter TPU command: SHIFT RIGHT 40u= Press the key you want defined  (key sequence of your choice)h   [DO] DEFINE KEY,  Enter TPU command: SHIFT LEFT 40< Press the key you want defined (key sequence of your choice)  L This shifts the window onto long records while keeping each long line as one
 long line.      H > Next I'd like to do case-independent Finds with uppercase-typed search
 > strings,  . [DO] HELP ---> look into section on SEARCHES.   C > And just how do you display key definitions that were entered via0 > LEARN?  < In what context do you want to display the learn sequences ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:00:33 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <3E5C49F0.1844F0A1@vl.videotron.ca>n   Rob Young wrote:E >         That said, articles point out 10 Gbit is *projected* not toi< >         get cheap enough for 3 years, from that same post:  M Will HP produce a Q-BUS  10 Gbit ethernet board for my all mighty Microvax IIe ?  :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:15:35 -0500e& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID58 Message-ID: <t2gn5voo8fio4f7jr09k0vsdcaivjal3e4@4ax.com>  7 On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:47:17 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:     >.? >...but that said, consider: HBVS *IS* RAID, RAID-1 to be exactGI >(shadowing/mirroring). Shadow-sets can be bound into volume-sets. ShouldtA >anything happen to a shadow-set (like lose all the members), thes >volume-set goes *PIFT*. >wC >That's why I prefer using mirrored stripe-sets that are mounted asaH >single-volume disk devices. Stripe for capacity, mirror for redundancy.B >Watch your FAILEDSET and SPARESET, and set your mirror-set member# >replacement policy as appropriate.e  E Wait 'til you get to use and EVA.  The way that Vraid is done for youD6 will make all that additional configuration work - and4 application/database performance work - go bye, bye.  . Everyone uses all spindles - thus no hotspots.  B You get a slowdown in the I/O, just add more spindles and, ta da!,# everyone's performance is improved.s  C It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:32:14 -0600T1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5' Message-ID: <3E5C272E.EFFEA73E@fsi.net>U   jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:47:17 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"u  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >-A > >...but that said, consider: HBVS *IS* RAID, RAID-1 to be exact K > >(shadowing/mirroring). Shadow-sets can be bound into volume-sets. ShouldhC > >anything happen to a shadow-set (like lose all the members), theo > >volume-set goes *PIFT*. > >wE > >That's why I prefer using mirrored stripe-sets that are mounted assJ > >single-volume disk devices. Stripe for capacity, mirror for redundancy.D > >Watch your FAILEDSET and SPARESET, and set your mirror-set member% > >replacement policy as appropriate.e > G > Wait 'til you get to use and EVA.  The way that Vraid is done for you 8 > will make all that additional configuration work - and6 > application/database performance work - go bye, bye. > 0 > Everyone uses all spindles - thus no hotspots. > D > You get a slowdown in the I/O, just add more spindles and, ta da!,% > everyone's performance is improved.( > E > It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring.-  E I tend to view that rather like the choice between burning garbage orD< burying it in a landfill. The bad stuff has to go SOMEplace.  H Rather like outsourcing: that heat may be taken off of you, but how muchF do you trust those upon whom the burden now falls? ...and how will you8 respond should that trust be given and then be breached?   --   David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:56:27 GMTbL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")) Subject: Re: Where to get a recent Emacs?e6 Message-ID: <00A1C077.4CAEFF84@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <1579dafc.0302250741.6503696@posting.google.com>, gtackett@yahoo.com (Galen Tackett) writes:a  D >Is there somewhere within the US where I can download an Emacs thatD >will work with OpenVMS V5.3-1 on Alpha? I can't get to the official@ >mirrors at MIT and in Sweden(?) and Japan, for some reason, but2 >perhaps there's another stateside site I can try.  H Nowhere, because there's no OpenVMS V5.3-1 on Alpha.  Do you mean 7.3-1?6 (Unfortunately I can't usefully answer your question.)   -- Alan=    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056MM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:32:31 +0000t- From: Gerald Marsh <gerald@cyfer.demon.co.uk>u6 Subject: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press8 Message-ID: <dunn5v4t7eslu3sacpe5hjr3n2kriuj6hf@4ax.com>   Is this a sign?l  E Leica Microsystems have advertised for a OpenVMS Software Engineer in E the last two weeks' Computer Weekly. This is the first OpenVMS adverts# I've seen in a hell of a long time.g  > It does suggest that knowledge of Solaris is necessary though.   Gerald.k Gerald Marsh  / gerald -at- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- ukh   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:57:37 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>: Subject: Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press0 Message-ID: <3E80D0C8.7F262BDC@blueyonder.co.uk>   Gerald Marsh wrote:  >  > Is this a sign?  > G > Leica Microsystems have advertised for a OpenVMS Software Engineer in G > the last two weeks' Computer Weekly. This is the first OpenVMS advertP% > I've seen in a hell of a long time.o > @ > It does suggest that knowledge of Solaris is necessary though.  E yup, either Solaris or very specific middleware expertise seems to bec: required for most jobs with VMS somewhere in the job spec.  @ The role is not ideal for me locationwise but I consider I couldK do the job, I have other relevant skills as well as VMS system programming, 5 however I have not been put forward to the client for G some reason. They have been advertising similar jobs since last summer.   D Sigh, and I THOUGHT I had a career in IT. IMHO the market is getting worse not better.   C Latest Computer Weekly also has article analyzing UK IT market, 75%o+ less jobs in Q42002 compared to Q42001 :-(.m    regards0   -- 1 tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk 1  H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 06:17:17 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 6 Subject: Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-SE2dOdLE30Jk@localhost>l  - On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:14:34 UTC, "Tom Wade" N) <t.wade@vms.eurokom.removespam.ie> wrote:s   > = > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message(/ > news:L%b6a.64399$Rb4.893193@news.chello.at...lM > > I recently found a bug again which I already discovered many years ago...  > >oH > > A SET COMMAND/OBJECT of a DECnet served source file (via SET DEFAULT	 > node::) L > > produces a 0 byte object file without any error message. And it makes noC > > difference if you do it from VAX to Alpha or from Alpha to VAX.9 > M > Yes, I'd noticed this.  I assume this is one of the reasons why Set Default F > to a remote DECnet node is not officially supported.  I too would be  > interested in the explanation. > M > As a workaround, I use the following command file to be executed by the VAXM2 > when it is Set Defaulted to the Alpha directory: > C > $ !  Set Command/obj doesn't work when SET DEFAULTed over DECnet.C > $t, > $       Copy PMDF-STATS-CLD.CLD SYS$LOGIN:+ > $       where = F$Environment ("default")- > $       Set Default SYS$LOGIN + > $       Set Command/object PMDF-STATS-CLD  > $       Set Default 'where' . > $       Copy SYS$LOGIN:PMDF-STATS-CLD.OBJ [] > J > I incorporate this into the build procedures when I need to produce both > Alpha and VAX objects.  F Years ago when learning RMS for the first time ISTR a number of fieldsF or calls that were 'not supported over DecNet'. Since that time I 've C always been pleasantly surprised at the number of things that _do_ . work via DecNet.   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:40:41 GMTs6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)7 Subject: Re: [MOTIF V1.3] Someone already experiences ? 5 Message-ID: <d2U6a.104235$Rb4.1370320@news.chello.at>-  g In article <3E808DBF.2DABFA83@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:M >JF Mezei wrote: >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote: N >> > 1) Not on VAX.  It's not on VAX because the changes are rather large, and. >> > the VAX base doesn't need any instability >>  L >> Isn't a non trivial proportion of workstations VAX ? (used as glorified X >> terminals) ?????  > I >If you just use your VAXStation as a glorified X-Terminal and can put up-I >with an old release of X (X11R3 I think), then you could consider using oL >EWS (standalone XServer), you will need a MOP load host on your LAN though.   Come on.$ EWS for VAXstation 3100 was X11R2 !!& EWS for VAXstation 4000-VLC was X11R3.5 Other VAXstations 4000 weren't even supported by EWS.o- So, EWS had it's time, but it is no longer...t  8 If you really want to, I could offer a 3100-76 or a VLC.0 But I still don't want to get rid of my 4000-90.   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER-% Network and OpenVMS system specialist0 E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.111 ************************