1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 26 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 112       Contents:- About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press"... 1 Re: About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press"... ; Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data ; Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data ; Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data # Anyone out there with a working EVA ' Re: Anyone out there with a working EVA  Re: DECthreads problem on VAX  Re: Dumping LAT P Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo Re: EVA Courses ?   RE: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE' Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup 1 Further Question: retrieve integer from longword. 5 Re: Further Question: retrieve integer from longword. @ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue@ Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue0 HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.4 RE: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.' Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results ' Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results   Re: HP's latest quartely results3 Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID H Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set& HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGEH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly6 Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests: RE: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" 5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / RE: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!  Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the P Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_re?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha RetaiP Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai Plug: txt2pdf 6.4 ) Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 ) Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 ) Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1 . pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]? Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language? - Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword. - Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword. / Re: Questions about SEARCH under OpenVMS V7.3-1   Re: Samba Missing stropts.h file5 SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?) $ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS% Re: Type the beginning of a file only . Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2 Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? * VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately VMSTAR question  Re: VMSTAR question > Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?> Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?1 Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press B [NYMLUG] NYC Meeting on 3/6/2003, "Heterogeneous Backup Solutions") [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP - Re: [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:59:57 +0100 5 From: "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> 6 Subject: About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press"...& Message-ID: <3e5c90a1$1@news.euriware>  4     About VMS on Itanium in the IT "Press" in France       In french : #     http://minilien.com/?GNoFDdjPyJ        Translation by Altavista :      & HP offers a new life to VMS on Itanium  ; Jean-Marie Portal , 01 Informatique , 18/02/2003 with 10h30   L Promise of Compaq held by HP: the bearing on Itanium of the operating system@ inherited DIGITAL is effective since the beginning of the month.  C It is a very recent workstation HP i2000 which had the privilege to K accomodate in preview, at the beginning of OpenVMS, February in its version K for Itanium. Whereas the last generation of Alpha processors is planned for J 2004, HP will thus have held the promise of Compaq: the mythical operatingG system of fire DIGITAL will turn well on the new chip 64 bits of INTEL.   J The marketing of waiters based on Itanium under OpenVMS should not howeverH intervene before one year. Initially, of the kits of development will beG placed at the disposal of the software publishers which will be able to G ensure the compatibility of their products with the new grinding of the C operating system. Oracle, BMC and BEA, inter alia, guaranteed their ! engagement in this way right now.   / HP plays the chart of compatibility with its OS   I In addition, HP proposes to its customers tools to develop, starting from D only one source code, of the versions for Alpha and Itanium of theirE applications. It is not the first time that OpenVMS must face such an K evolution. Already, following the repurchase of DIGITAL per Compaq in 1998, I its users had seen themselves imposing the bearing of OS of processor VAX  towards Alpha.  H Today, HP intends to spare its installed base customers. OpenVMS remainsC very popular in the sectors of health and the tlcoms, and for the F development of embarked applications. In France, for example, the RATPI carried out most of the automatisms of the line 14 of the Parisian subway F under VMS. The manufacturer estimates at four hundred and thousand theJ number of machines still turning under OpenVMS. He thus plans to integrateJ it soon into Itanium machines to two, four, eight or sixteen ways. And, ifJ all is well, in 2005, Superdome with a hundred and twenty-eight processors could lodge it in its turn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:15:01 +0200 $ From: "MikeR" <rechtman@tzora.co.il>: Subject: Re: About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press"...6 Message-ID: <b3i7db$1mgtga$1@ID-103225.news.dfncis.de>  @ "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message  news:3e5c90a1$1@news.euriware... > 6 >     About VMS on Itanium in the IT "Press" in France >  >     In french : % >     http://minilien.com/?GNoFDdjPyJ  >   >     Translation by Altavista : >  >  > ( > HP offers a new life to VMS on Itanium >  >  ... L > The marketing of waiters based on Itanium under OpenVMS should not however >...+ Sorry, cannot resist some mental imagery...      Mike   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:34:19 GMT 4 From: "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se>D Subject: Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data@ Message-ID: <9855edb39ff89912b8c049a3f91fdb93@news.teranews.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E5BB4C0.62D49199@vl.videotron.ca...  > Johan Nilsson wrote:L > > shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition fromJ > > another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data inG > > the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.  >  > I > Is this at compile time ? Or at link time ? Could you include the EXACT  AND # > COMPLETE message that is issued ?   L Yes I can, but will not do it until I have the opportunity to access the VMSL systems again (which are physically located outside of my current location).K However, what I _will_ do (nb; without screaming out loud) is to quote from G my posting, of which you snipped away most part above, probably without  reading it to the end;  I At the beginning: "... I'll give it another go (please see end of posting  for details): "   L At the end: "The linker is issuing the error %LINK-E-SHRPSCLNG, informing me that theC data in the shareable image is 956 bytes versus 960 in the client."   K Note especially - "The linker" - above, which indicates it was at link time E (also further reinforced by the LINK facility indication in the error 	 message).   0 Still would appreciate some help on this matter.   // Johan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:00:57 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>D Subject: Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data/ Message-ID: <3E5C7438.D0C4AB7F@vl.videotron.ca>    Johan Nilsson wrote:N > At the end: "The linker is issuing the error %LINK-E-SHRPSCLNG, informing me
 > that theE > data in the shareable image is 956 bytes versus 960 in the client."     $ Thanks. I had not seen that message.  # This is what HELP/MESSAGE provides:   2  SHRPSCLNG,  Psect 'string' has length of 'number'+    in module 'module-name' file 'file-name' C    which exceeds length of 'number' in shareable image 'image-name'   $   Facility:     LINK, Linker Utility  N   Explanation:  An input-object module defines a common area to have a greaterK                 length than the common area of the same name defined in the &                 input shareable image.  N   User Action:  Modify the length of the program section defining common areasL                 (such as those used in VAX BASIC, VAX PL/I, VAX FORTRAN, andM                 VAX C) to be less than or equal to the length of that program /                 section in the shareable image.       K QUESTION: are both modules compiled with the same compiler ? Is it possible : that one is compiled with VAX-C and the other with DEC_C ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:24:37 GMT 4 From: "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se>D Subject: Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data@ Message-ID: <20830b0fa3bc062f375e232cf727ca1a@news.teranews.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E5C7438.D0C4AB7F@vl.videotron.ca...  > Johan Nilsson wrote:C > > At the end: "The linker is issuing the error %LINK-E-SHRPSCLNG,  informing me > > that theG > > data in the shareable image is 956 bytes versus 960 in the client."  >  > & > Thanks. I had not seen that message.   [...snip...]   >  > D > QUESTION: are both modules compiled with the same compiler ? Is it possible< > that one is compiled with VAX-C and the other with DEC_C ?  I No, sorry, there's only one C compiler installed at the workstation. I've I seen the references to different RTL's and mismatching sizes in shareable 0 images (see my reply in this thread to "Safir").  F I actually think I know what the problem is, I just don't feel that itA _should_ be this way - could it be some kind of compiler / linker K incompatility stuff or possibly some problems with the linker switches (see G my previous post). It seems like the linker "truncates" the shared data I without respecting the alignment boundaries (therefore the "956" size) in J the shared image, but when the "client" application sees the definition ofJ the shared data struct, it expects "sizeof(<shared data struct>)" to equalD 960. This suggests that the compiler assumes the data not only to beK naturally aligned, but also padded to a even multiple of the machine word -  but - the linker does not.  J I haven't tried this, but I would expect the following to exhibit the sameH behaviour (compile and link shared.c into a shareable image, install it,/ compile and link client.c to the shared image):    --- shared.h --- /* just to be sure */  #pragma member_alignment  
 struct shared  {      char fourBytes[4]; };  ! extern struct shared shared_data;    --- shared.c --- #include "shared.h"  struct shared shared_data;   --- client.c --- #include <shared.h>  #include <memory.h>   int main(int argc, char* argv[]) { J     memset(&shared_data.fourBytes[0], '*', sizeof(shared_data.fourBytes));
     return 0;  }; ---    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:08:56 -0000 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com>, Subject: Anyone out there with a working EVA4 Message-ID: <7afk7ja3CHA.204@juno.intranet.dabs.com>   Hi,   C Further to my previous posting regarding if anyone was aware of any J companies providing training for an EVA - does anyone have one installed /J working (in the U.K.) - and ... would they be prepared to 'show it off' toI myself and a couple of work collegues.  We simply wish to understand it's H potential, discuss any pitfalls, discuss how easy it is to manage etc...   TIA.   Regards    Craig Cooke    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:10:17 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: Anyone out there with a working EVA) Message-ID: <3E5CE6E9.9A9E3B80@127.0.0.1>    Craig Cooke wrote:  E > Further to my previous posting regarding if anyone was aware of any L > companies providing training for an EVA - does anyone have one installed /L > working (in the U.K.) - and ... would they be prepared to 'show it off' toK > myself and a couple of work collegues.  We simply wish to understand it's J > potential, discuss any pitfalls, discuss how easy it is to manage etc...   I'll ask. What's in it for us?  @ I'm not sure how we could get you to physically see it though...   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 07:18:09 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) & Subject: Re: DECthreads problem on VAX5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-FByf6xItCtd5@localhost>   E On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:30:45 UTC,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:   H > I'm having a problem with a DECthreaded application when it's compiled; > and run on OpenVMS VAX (VMS: V7.2/DECthreads: V3.15-250).  > 5 > This application works flawlessly on OpenVMS Alpha.  > H > Then the application is run on VAX, it runs for a short while and then > I get a stack dump:  > P > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=04, virtual address=0000002C,  > PC=0013037E, PSL=03C00000  > 4 >   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced. > 6 >         Signal arguments              Stack contents > 3 >         Number = 00000005                43454425 3 >         Name   = 0000000C                65726874 3 >                  00000004                20736461 3 >                  0000002C                63677562 3 >                  0013037E                6B636568 3 >                  03C00000                65762820 3 >                                          6F697372 3 >                                          3356206E 3 >                                          2D35312E 3 >                                          29303532  >  >         Register dump  > D >         R0 = 00000000  R1 = 00000000  R2 = 00000000  R3 = 00000004D >         R4 = 00000040  R5 = 00000000  R6 = 0015AB78  R7 = 0015B988D >         R8 = 002C8B40  R9 = 00000000  R10= 0015AAA8  R11= 00000001D >         AP = 002C6514  FP = 002C64D4  SP = 002C6550  PC = 0013037E >         PSL= 03C00000  > I > The contents of the stack translates to: %DECthreads bugcheck (version  1 > V3.15-250)  DECthreads is writing on the stack.  > 0 > The PC (0013037E) is in the PTHREAD$RTL image: > B >     7FFBF3D0: 0015EBFF 00129200  PTHREAD$RTL           V3.15-250 >  > F > I've added a bit of code that logs the SP at entry and exit to each F > thread routine to be sure that the stack is not getting corrupted byE > my routines.  Everything checks out and yet the app dumps.  Also, a F > PTHREAD_DUMP.LOG file is created but it contains nothing.  I'm open  > to suggestions.    Hi Brian;                  when I've had problems running DECThreads  F applications on VAX that work OK on Alpha, I've usually found it was aC re-entrancy (or lack of) problem. On Alpha, it wasn't so much of a  E problem because the Fortran RTL was not so non-re-entrant (i.e. I/O)  D but mainly the simple speed advantage meant that the situation with - the competing routines didn't actually arise.   F On the other hand my experience with Threads debugging is all VMS 5.5 F and 6.2. I've just started trying to run my apps, built under 6.2,  onF 7.1. One works but the other, which uses threads a lot more intensely,B (22 as opposed to  8) gives up in circumstances not dissimilar to ) yours :-) I started chasing it yesterday.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:53:07 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: Dumping LAT' Message-ID: <3E5CF0F3.A4F646D9@vcu.edu>   @ plus, as gums receede, i've seen people real "long in the tooth"& physically, as well as virtually...!!!  A i never understood it until the guy got his front teeth redone by $ implants... then I understood... ;-D   Jim    Howard S Shubs wrote:  > ) > In article <3E57F37A.5B4F07BB@fsi.net>, 5 >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  > H > > That said, the applications for LAT are getting rather, as they say,F > > "long in the tooth" (never understood that reference) and the gear > F > Rodents' teeth grow throughout their lives.  If they don't wear themJ > down, they just get longer.  An old critter might not be able to chew onA > enough stuff to wear down its teeth, so be "long in the tooth"?  >  > --6 > Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   --  F "4,000 years ago I made a mistake."  Elrond Half-Elven, in "Fellowship of the Ring"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:52:55 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo . Message-ID: <3E5CC6B7.5010908@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:9 > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:06:47 -0000, "Helmut P. Einfalt" ! > <hp.einfalt@t-online.de> wrote:  >  > 4 >>>Always cracks me up the way these kids talk about> >>>one machine which has 2% better performance than another... >>G >>...and bear in mind that it is *benchmark* perfomance more often than 	 >>not...!  >> >  > G > Oh, but we have it on top authority in here that benchmarks are *the* ( > most important measure of performance. >   ; Depends what kind of benchmark. But lets face it benchmarks ? have to be better than hand wavey "in my experience" statements $ unsupported by any other collateral.  9 Now who could I be refering to with the hand wavey "in my  experience" quote, I wonder.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:47:56 -0000 * From: "Craig Cooke" <ccooke@beta.dabs.com> Subject: Re: EVA Courses ?5 Message-ID: <RgQ3jwX3CHA.4900@juno.intranet.dabs.com>   5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3E5A4248.7434E91A@127.0.0.1...  > Roy Omond wrote: > > < >  > I know of a company in the UK that may be able to help. > >  > > "dabs.com" ... Bolton. > E > Nay lad, Wingates, Westhoughton (a.k.a. Keaw Yed). Home t' Wingates   > Temperance Brass Band tha nos. > ( > http://www.bolton.org.uk/wingates.html > < > > Friend of mine went on the course given by (then) Compaq: > > in Manchester, so he (Craig) won't have far to travel. > ( > There's a story in there, eh Craig ;-) >  > --A > Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  > nclews at csc dot com   F I've contacted Host Computers - thanks for the pointers everyone - I'm awaiting a response from them.   Thanks.    Craig Cooke    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:07:51 +0000 7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> ) Subject: RE: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE H Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015292E9@reaes2.sema.co.uk>  D I normally try to avoid getting involved in these periodic outburstsD of editor-jihad, (as I said in another thread, people like what theyE like and you ain't gonna change them). but I noticed in this one that D Alan asked a question here that nobody has answered. And it is quiteD easy. I don't know if the the question was a real desire to know, orC more flame-bait (it just gets impossible to tell when people get so B passionate), so I'll just treat it naively as a simple request for information, and reply to it.   + - And I hope it doesn't rekindle the fire!    0  Alan E. Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote:   >[loads deleted..]G >In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYP % >=PASTE, then *C to get back to work.  > E >In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, move F >the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, pressG >Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: show D >buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there an! >eaiser way?  [.. more deleted..]   C Yes there is a much easier way. the command is WRITE_FILE. To write E out the contents of the paste buffer to 'foo.bar' say, withour moving C buffers, changing the cursor position, the window or anything is to  DO/ Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(PASTE_BUFFER,"FOO.BAR")   C In fact, if you're just trying to write out a part of a file in the D midst of an edit, you don't even need to put it in the paste buffer.C You can just select the range, then without the paste sequence (the D kp6 + gold kp6) you can write it straight out from the selected area with the command DO/ Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")   E This can be useful if it is a huge range, and you don't want to waste . time with an unnecessary cut and re-paste job.  E HTH. I guess it is unlikely to help you often, but on those occasions C when you are forced into using TPU it is there for you. In any case D it will help other readers of the newsgroup who weren't aware of it.   Cheers, John    9 _________________________________________________________ B This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of   SchlumbergerSema. H If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have receivedK this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing,  0 or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.  : If you have received this email in error please notify the? SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600. 9 _________________________________________________________    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:50:04 -0800& From: otto.kolbe@klst.com (Otto Kolbe)0 Subject: Re: ftp server gets disabled at startup= Message-ID: <c9ab8878.0302260850.3e7f6abe@posting.google.com>   ' Thanks for the remembered similarities!   H I maintain now two OS versions on separate disks to have a fast fallbackD after changes. For this I redirected SYLOGIN, SYSUAF and other stuff to the application disk.  M By accident SYLOGIN lost its WORLD:RE protection and that caused the problem.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:10:20 +0800 # From: "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> : Subject: Further Question: retrieve integer from longword.4 Message-ID: <1046254442.146139@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>  	 Dear All,   K Using C language to convert a longword to integer. How should be done in C?   L The following is the correct result. On the left hand side, is the print outE by "printf" with "%d", and the right hand side is the correct integer  output.   4 Longword -56.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   2003 Longword -24.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer 1000 4 Longword  88.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   6004 Longword  32.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   4003 Longword  40.35.32.32    ========= >   Integer 9000 3 Longword  96.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer 2400   
 Best Regards,  Albert.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:23:56 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG> Subject: Re: Further Question: retrieve integer from longword.0 Message-ID: <00A1C0F8.E59E7DA8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <1046254442.146139@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>, "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> writes:
 >Dear All, > L >Using C language to convert a longword to integer. How should be done in C? > M >The following is the correct result. On the left hand side, is the print out F >by "printf" with "%d", and the right hand side is the correct integer >output. > 5 >Longword -56.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   200            ^^^-- C8(16) -> 200 4 >Longword -24.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer 10005 >Longword  88.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   600 5 >Longword  32.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer   400 4 >Longword  40.35.32.32    ========= >   Integer 90004 >Longword  96.32.32.32    ========= >   Integer 2400 >  >Best Regards, >Albert.   What are you smoking?     C I fairly confident that %d did not print out your "left" side.  Why D don't you provide a bit of code so we can see what you are trying to do?    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:09:56 GMT 0 From: HARANGOZO CSABA   <spameater@spam.invalid>I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue 5 Message-ID: <Un07a.748$L7.67143@nasal.pacific.net.au>   + John Jansen <jjansen@tilgroup.co.nz> wrote:  > HI, P > Thank you for your thoughts. If I examine the spooled file using EDT the first> > character is an escape and the last a printer reset command.  M > If I decode the printer hex dump for the same file the first character is a P > <CR>  (additional)  and the last 2 additional characters are <CR> <FF>. Theses > follow the printer reset.   C 	More than likely the <FF> is causing the extra blank page, and the  	<CR>-s the extra 2 lines.C 	Check that at which stage these added to the report, ( or might be E 	part of it from the beginning ? ) and try to disable their addition.    							Cheers,  Csaba   J  -------------------------------------------------------------------------H   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auJ  -------------------------------------------------------------------------;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:   - 	I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:51:28 -0800& From: famhdrent@chello.nl (Henk Drent)I Subject: Re: How Can a trailing Blank Page be stopped via VMS print Queue = Message-ID: <30738084.0302260251.44f5cd7a@posting.google.com>   C The symptoms you desribe points in the direction to a configuration > problem of a telnet printque. I have had these problems with a
 telnetque.  D I have noticed that you use a LATque but maybe a check doesnot hurt.  ( If you do a Google search with the word:  %   TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS   or  #   UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS    ! you wil probably find some hints.   > Also if you look in the FAQ of OpenVMS for the articles  with     "HP Printers and Blank Pages "   Regards,  
    Henk Drent   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5C2DE4.AD0210FA@fsi.net>... > John Jansen wrote: > >  > > HI, R > > Thank you for your thoughts. If I examine the spooled file using EDT the first@ > > character is an escape and the last a printer reset command. > J > That may be the problem right there. HP's escape sequences don't conformI > to the print symbionts' interpretation of the ANSI standards for escape  > sequences. > 7 > I believe the answer may be found in the OpenVMS FAQ: 7 > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html  >  > Check it out...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:15:45 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> 9 Subject: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   7 Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful?   " I think y'all know what to do. :^)  
 I already am.    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:27:21 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. F Message-ID: <ZN67a.95860$Zr%.321@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov...  > 9 > Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful?  > $ > I think y'all know what to do. :^) >  > I already am.      Which tool????   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:30:47 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> = Subject: RE: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCC@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   $ "John Smith" [a@nonymous.com] wrote: > / >"VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message F >news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov... >>: >> Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful? >>% >> I think y'all know what to do. :^)  >> >> I already am. >  >  >Which tool????  >  Golden Eggs.  1 See:  http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/golden-eggs/    ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annex , 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:46:04 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) 0 Subject: Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302260846.364a2410@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5C206A.261C47D6@vl.videotron.ca>... J > Any discussions about individual product lines are doing ? Is enterprise > computing picking up ?   One of the bullet items was:  C o  Personal Systems Reports $33 Million Profit vs. $68 Million Loss ;    in Q4;  Enterprise Systems Cuts Loss by 36% Sequentially   " and farther down the article says:  A "In addition to posting a quarterly profit, Personal Systems grew ? sequentially in consumer PCs and handhelds, and reinforced HP's C commitment to innovation with strong market acceptance of new Media = Center PC, Tablet PC and iPAQ offerings. Imaging and Printing B continued to post strong revenue and operating profit, with market" share gains across key categories.  F Enterprise Systems reduced its operating losses for the second quarter> in a row and maintained its strong market position in servers,< storage, software and supercomputers. HP Services maintainedE double-digit profitability during the quarter and posted double-digit / sequential revenue growth in managed services."    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:48:53 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 0 Subject: Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 ResultsH Message-ID: <9677a.96100$Zr%.44089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0302260846.364a2410@posting.google.com... = > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message + news:<3E5C206A.261C47D6@vl.videotron.ca>... A > > Any discussions about individual product lines are doing ? Is 
 enterprise > > computing picking up ? >  > One of the bullet items was: > E > o  Personal Systems Reports $33 Million Profit vs. $68 Million Loss = >    in Q4;  Enterprise Systems Cuts Loss by 36% Sequentially  > $ > and farther down the article says: > @ > Enterprise Systems reduced its operating losses for the second quarter @ > in a row and maintained its strong market position in servers,' > storage, software and supercomputers.   B When you look at the numbers for Enterprise Systems, you won't seeE actual revenue growth. The reduction in the operating loss was solely @ due to cost cutting. From HP's own comments about the Enterprise Systems group,  E "Revenue was $3.7 billion, down 6% sequentially, reflecting continued F soft demand in the United States and Latin America. Enterprise SystemsB reduced its operating loss to $83 million during the quarter, from $129 million last quarter."   B "Enterprise Systems operating profit was negative 2.2% of revenue,@ compared to negative 3.2% last quarter. Business-critical serverF revenue was down 12% sequentially, reflecting a weak UNIX market and a? tough quarter for NonStop servers in the telecommunications and C finance industries [and zero marketing and advertising for VMS, and ? continuing aftershocks resulting from the imbecilic decision to ; announce the death of Alpha before a viable replacement was F available]. Industry-standard server revenue was down 5% sequentially,: reflecting soft market demand. Storage revenue was down 5% sequentially."    D At the market opening this morning, HP sank $2.27, or 12 percent, toD $15.90. The company posted a quarterly profit after Tuesday's close,E but its revenue missed analyst forecasts. HP, second biggest computer C maker after International Business Machines Corp. (IBM.N), said the $ current quarter may be flat at best.    A Also at http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030226/tech_hewlettpackard_3.html   F "However, other investors will likely focus on the weak sales momentumE to reinforce the doubts they have about the company's ability to show F promised synergies and become a growth story," he wrote. First Albany,B which hasn't done any investment banking for HP, rates the stock a
 "neutral."  > Bear Stearns' Neff also pointed to concerns about the personalD computer segment, which HP said swung to profitability this quarter,= noting that it was the only computer hardware company to miss  expectations during the period.   D He said that management had shifted some expenses from its operatingD segments into a separate category, essentially taking $40 million in costs out of the unit.  F With a reported operating profit of $33 million, Neff said, that couldD mean that the PC group actually was unprofitable under HP's previous( accounting method.  <---very interesting    A Wonder what, if anything, they 'cooked' in the Enterprise Systems  books?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:49:01 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ) Subject: Re: HP's latest quartely results . Message-ID: <3E5CC5CD.5000409@nospamn.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Smith wrote:  > H >>http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quarters/2003/q1.html?mtx >>s=corp&mtxb=2&mtxl=1 >> > K > BBC world news tonight said "The world'd largets computer maker announced ! > today its financial results..."  > C > I though it was still IBM that was the biggest computer company ?   6 Just as Gartner Dataquest still thinks that Sun is the: largest UNIX vendor despite what it says in the HP report.  6 I guess aunty beeb and HP were both wrong though aunty" is generally a trustworthy source.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 12:16:53 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) < Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID- Message-ID: <dpGstq4v5iD5@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   3 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Keith Parris wrote:  >>  F >> HSG[60|80]s don't have Write History Logging (at least not yet), so$ >> you'all see full merges on those. >  > How 'bout HSZ80?K      You will never see write history logging on HSZ series of controllers,   nor will it appear on the HSG60.   ----- M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:41:04 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) Q Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volume set = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302260841.21034947@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5C2C1A.32753D4E@fsi.net>... > Keith Parris wrote: G > > HSG[60|80]s don't have Write History Logging (at least not yet), so % > > you'all see full merges on those.  >  > How 'bout HSZ80?  F HSZ controllers use the SCSI protocol to talk to hosts (the HSGs speakF SCSI-3 over Fibre Channel).  HSJs and HSDs talk MSCP over SCS.  VolumeD Shadowing Assists (including Write History Logging) were part of the MSCP protocol.  E There is a project underway to add a Write History Logging capability D to the HSG controllers, but no plans to do something similar for the older HSZs.   D Using industry standards lowers costs, but may require you to eitherD give up some of the advantages of proprietary solutions, or else (asC VMS is doing more and more these days) you must find clever ways to D retain the advantages by incorporating the value-added features into? VMS itself rather than the hardware, so you can use inexpensive > industry-standard hardware and yet get better results than the competition.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 04:03:08 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE / Message-ID: <3E5C74BB.E2A0B01B@vl.videotron.ca>    $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  $   4 (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.).   This is with VAX VMS 7.2  9 Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:59:32 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ) Message-ID: <3E5CBA34.3080604@oracle.com>    looks like it is time to1 	a) consider upgrading to a modern version of vms D 	b) take advantage of your support contract and formmal report this.   JF Mezei wrote:  > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > $  > 6 > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). >  > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 > ; > Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.      --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:21:08 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ? Message-ID: <OF76DC4330.D7912193-ON85256CD9.00491600@metso.com>   C I tried this on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 with (almost) the same result. B I used a messagename with matches for multiple facilities, and theI help text did not display, but the "Press Return to Continue..." messages J appeared one after another.  It looks like all the work is being done, but  the help text is not displaying.    H From:  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> on 02/26/2003 03:03 AM  < Please respond to JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   2 Subject:    HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE     $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  $   4 (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.).   This is with VAX VMS 7.2  9 Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:51:32 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ; Message-ID: <01KSWBEVB7BA9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > > $  > > 8 > > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). > >  > > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 >  > looks like it is time to3 > 	a) consider upgrading to a modern version of vms F > 	b) take advantage of your support contract and formmal report this.   Just for more information:  
 $ sh sys/nopr J OpenVMS V7.3  on node XXXXXX  26-FEB-2003 14:41:31.75  Uptime  17 19:13:36 $ set term/dev=unkn  $ help/message devf  Press RETURN to continue ... $    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:59:20 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE < Message-ID: <YK37a.44596$Cv4.856532@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  H When you "set term/dev=unknown", it also flips the value for ANSI to "NO
 ANSI_CRT".L If you do a "set term/dev=unknkown/ansi"  it works again.  Can you live with that workaround?    ) <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message 9 news:OF76DC4330.D7912193-ON85256CD9.00491600@metso.com...  > E > I tried this on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 with (almost) the same result. D > I used a messagename with matches for multiple facilities, and theK > help text did not display, but the "Press Return to Continue..." messages L > appeared one after another.  It looks like all the work is being done, but" > the help text is not displaying. >  > J > From:  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> on 02/26/2003 03:03 AM > > > Please respond to JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:  > 4 > Subject:    HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE >  >  > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > $  > 6 > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). >  > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 > ; > Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:04:30 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE < Message-ID: <OP37a.44624$Cv4.856713@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  K Just wanted to add that I was using Alpha VMS 7.2-1.  It worked the same on @ VAX 7.1 (ie, ok with dev=vt300, not ok with dev=unknown, ok with dev=unknown/ansi)   L Also, I just tested it on VMS 7.3-1 with exactly the same results.   So much for a more modern OS.     . "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message6 news:YK37a.44596$Cv4.856532@twister.tampabay.rr.com...J > When you "set term/dev=unknown", it also flips the value for ANSI to "NO > ANSI_CRT".I > If you do a "set term/dev=unknkown/ansi"  it works again.  Can you live  with > that workaround? >  > + > <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message ; > news:OF76DC4330.D7912193-ON85256CD9.00491600@metso.com...  > > G > > I tried this on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 with (almost) the same result. F > > I used a messagename with matches for multiple facilities, and theD > > help text did not display, but the "Press Return to Continue..." messagesJ > > appeared one after another.  It looks like all the work is being done, but $ > > the help text is not displaying. > >  > > L > > From:  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> on 02/26/2003 03:03 AM > > @ > > Please respond to JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> > >   > > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > cc:  > > 6 > > Subject:    HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE > >  > >  > > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > > $  > > 8 > > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). > >  > > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 > > = > > Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:41:07 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ? Message-ID: <OF721DFDD4.84F840E1-ON85256CD9.00506A46@metso.com>   4 If you use HELP/MESSAGE/OUTPUT=filespec messagename,> it ignores the terminal type and /OUTPUT=SYS$OUTPUT: gives the8 information (without the prompts, which I would expect). Nevertheless, I reported it.  ; From:  "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> on 02/26/2003 09:04 AM   / Please respond to "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   6 Subject:    Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE    K Just wanted to add that I was using Alpha VMS 7.2-1.  It worked the same on @ VAX 7.1 (ie, ok with dev=vt300, not ok with dev=unknown, ok with dev=unknown/ansi)   G Also, I just tested it on VMS 7.3-1 with exactly the same results.   So  much for a more modern OS.     . "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message6 news:YK37a.44596$Cv4.856532@twister.tampabay.rr.com...J > When you "set term/dev=unknown", it also flips the value for ANSI to "NO > ANSI_CRT".I > If you do a "set term/dev=unknkown/ansi"  it works again.  Can you live  with > that workaround? >  > + > <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote in message ; > news:OF76DC4330.D7912193-ON85256CD9.00491600@metso.com...  > > G > > I tried this on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2 with (almost) the same result. F > > I used a messagename with matches for multiple facilities, and theD > > help text did not display, but the "Press Return to Continue..." messagesJ > > appeared one after another.  It looks like all the work is being done, but $ > > the help text is not displaying. > >  > > I > > From:  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> on 02/26/2003 03:03  AM > > @ > > Please respond to JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> > >   > > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > cc:  > > 6 > > Subject:    HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE > >  > >  > > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > > $  > > 8 > > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). > >  > > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 > > = > > Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 15:57:52 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE : Message-ID: <b3io60$ds3$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  ? In message <OF721DFDD4.84F840E1-ON85256CD9.00506A46@metso.com>,   norm.raphael@metso.com writes: 5 >If you use HELP/MESSAGE/OUTPUT=filespec messagename, ? >it ignores the terminal type and /OUTPUT=SYS$OUTPUT: gives the 9 >information (without the prompts, which I would expect).  >Nevertheless, I reported it.   > Another workaround is to use HELP/MESSAGE/NOPAGE messsagename.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:29:32 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ? Message-ID: <OF10F49B5F.F7AC6E4C-ON85256CD9.005A5136@metso.com>   I So the "bug" is really that the default is "/PAGE" and that does not work G with non-ANSI terminals, so if the output terminal device is set NOANSI  then; HELP/MESSAGE should alter to "/NOPAGE" (The PAGE and OUTPUT 8 qualifiers are mutually exclusive already).  Nice catch!  I From:  JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) on 02/26/2003 10:57 AM   = Please respond to JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)    To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:   6 Subject:    Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE    ? In message <OF721DFDD4.84F840E1-ON85256CD9.00506A46@metso.com>,   norm.raphael@metso.com writes: 5 >If you use HELP/MESSAGE/OUTPUT=filespec messagename, ? >it ignores the terminal type and /OUTPUT=SYS$OUTPUT: gives the 9 >information (without the prompts, which I would expect).  >Nevertheless, I reported it.   > Another workaround is to use HELP/MESSAGE/NOPAGE messsagename.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:  140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     | jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu : Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:54:17 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ? Message-ID: <OF01C5596C.58D22B00-ON85256CD9.0067BADF@metso.com>   " Now logged as Case# NA030226020475  % News to OpenVMS, but they confirm it.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 19:30:18 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly D Message-ID: <20030226112733.6D6DAB73.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au>   jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:   > > "They" can demand all they want; they get what they pay for.  1 I think we need to carve this in stone somewhere!    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:05:10 -0800" From: xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon)? Subject: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests = Message-ID: <baa86a4a.0302260205.72f03425@posting.google.com>   6 Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests  F A REPORT in authoritative German magazine c't said that SAP benchmarks; demonstrate that an Itanium system is 67% slower than an HP  AlphaServer GS1280. C That follows an earlier report by c't that showed benchmarks of AMD " 64-bit chips using SAP benchmarks.  F The same report mentions that the code for IA-64 is around three timesB the sheer bulk of the 32-bit code, while AMD's X86-64 code for the! same is only 15 per cent greater.    And so it goes.   ) You can find the article, in German, here 4 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-25.02.03-000/    / So all you Carly Girls out there, chew on this: A DISTRIBUTORS AND RESELLERS of HP kit are up in arms  no surprise E there  and are turning to previous arch-enemy IBM to succour them in - their hour of need, Chuck rings me up to say. D The problem is that getting accreditation from the New HP is so muchA harder than from the Big Q, in the old days. They have to fill in < reams and reams of paperwork to become authorized disties orB resellers, and HP is squeezing them hard to make the minimum sales* volumes that will keep them in Team Carly.  E But IBM is welcoming the disaffected with open arms, Chuck adds. Even F the ones that do less than $10 million annually are being courted like/ princelings and given the red carpet treatment.   A Chuck mentions that HP's ENSA@Work and its partner conference are B rolling in Orlando, FLA, this very week. But this event has becomeD very hush hush indeed. No press or analysts are being allowed within 100 yards of the spot.  > We said: "Is it possible that the NewHP could create a channelE strategy that was worse than DECs?". The line went as quiet as the PR  bunnies when Mageek shows up.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:13:11 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> C Subject: RE: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBNGLAA.tom@kednos.com>   C I wonder what the corresponding speed would be of a VAX emulator on  a 4.3GHz Pentium?    >-----Original Message----- * >From: Tsarkon [mailto:xeio77@hotmail.com]+ >Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:05 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests >  > 7 >Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests  > G >A REPORT in authoritative German magazine c't said that SAP benchmarks < >demonstrate that an Itanium system is 67% slower than an HP >AlphaServer GS1280.D >That follows an earlier report by c't that showed benchmarks of AMD# >64-bit chips using SAP benchmarks.  > G >The same report mentions that the code for IA-64 is around three times C >the sheer bulk of the 32-bit code, while AMD's X86-64 code for the " >same is only 15 per cent greater. >  >And so it goes. > * >You can find the article, in German, here5 >http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-25.02.03-000/  >  > 0 >So all you Carly Girls out there, chew on this:B >DISTRIBUTORS AND RESELLERS of HP kit are up in arms  no surpriseF >there  and are turning to previous arch-enemy IBM to succour them in. >their hour of need, Chuck rings me up to say.E >The problem is that getting accreditation from the New HP is so much B >harder than from the Big Q, in the old days. They have to fill in= >reams and reams of paperwork to become authorized disties or C >resellers, and HP is squeezing them hard to make the minimum sales + >volumes that will keep them in Team Carly.  > F >But IBM is welcoming the disaffected with open arms, Chuck adds. EvenG >the ones that do less than $10 million annually are being courted like 0 >princelings and given the red carpet treatment. > B >Chuck mentions that HP's ENSA@Work and its partner conference areC >rolling in Orlando, FLA, this very week. But this event has become E >very hush hush indeed. No press or analysts are being allowed within  >100 yards of the spot.  > ? >We said: "Is it possible that the NewHP could create a channel F >strategy that was worse than DECs?". The line went as quiet as the PR >bunnies when Mageek shows up. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:43:31 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)> Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"/ Message-ID: <3e5c7d0b.55021888@news.eircom.net>   B On 25 Feb 2003 15:05:37 -0800, xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote:   >Torvalds wrote B >that Intel had made the same mistakes "that everybody else did 15E >years ago" when RISC architecture was first appearing. Itanium tries A >to introduce an architecture that is clean and technically pure, F >something that just doesn't seem to work in the real world. He claimsC >that Intel "threw out all the good parts of the x86 because people G >thought those parts were ugly. They aren't ugly, they're the 'charming   >oddity' that makes it do well."  E It seems to me that this is nonsense. I've yet to see anyone point to F any feature of x86 that's good (other than by comparison with the evenC worse CISC architectures like 68k and VAX). x86 is fast despite its F quirks, because of the vast resources that have been thrown at it. And the same is true of IA64.    --  3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent." + Remove killer rodent from address to reply. ! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 02:03:58 -0800" From: xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon)> Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"= Message-ID: <baa86a4a.0302260203.577cbbf2@posting.google.com>   Q rmk@rmkhome.com wrote in message news:<3e5c2d7c$0$4838$75868355@news.frii.net>... % > Tsarkon <xeio77@hotmail.com> wrote:  > C > > In what could be the best news for AMD, Torvalds summarised his F > > thoughts on Itanium. "Code size matters. Price matters. Real worldG > > matters. And ia-64 at least so far falls flat on its face on ALL of  > > these."  > I > When it comes to the "opensource" world, Linux and *BSD are pretty well K > stuck with GCC. It may be 5 or 6 years before GCC generates "pretty good" G > code for itanic. And due to chipset differences, Intel and HP will be 7 > shipping boxes that are incompatible with each other.   C icc works rather nicely, and FreeBSD actually has a port of ICC for  its linux subsystem.   this is another charmin story:  6 Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests  $ And code is a 64-bit bloater floater      F A REPORT in authoritative German magazine c't said that SAP benchmarks; demonstrate that an Itanium system is 67% slower than an HP  AlphaServer GS1280. C That follows an earlier report by c't that showed benchmarks of AMD " 64-bit chips using SAP benchmarks.  F The same report mentions that the code for IA-64 is around three timesB the sheer bulk of the 32-bit code, while AMD's X86-64 code for the! same is only 15 per cent greater.    And so it goes.   * You can find the article, in German, here.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:34:55 +0100 9 From: Per =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Schr=F6der?= <pesc@bredband.net> > Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"2 Message-ID: <OQ07a.2015$VU1.52@news2.bredband.com>   Tsarkon wrote:  > > Linus Torvalds, Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the > x86"  0 The cited article was a writeup by the Inquirer.  : To see what Linus actually says on the subject, look here:  > http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/1909.html  > http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.3/0001.html     --  
 /Per Schrder  http://developer.mimer.se    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 09:46:03 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"3 Message-ID: <TJUhLnSBEJd3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3e5c7d0b.55021888@news.eircom.net>, rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace) writes:D > On 25 Feb 2003 15:05:37 -0800, xeio77@hotmail.com (Tsarkon) wrote: >  >>Torvalds wroteC >>that Intel had made the same mistakes "that everybody else did 15 F >>years ago" when RISC architecture was first appearing. Itanium triesB >>to introduce an architecture that is clean and technically pure,G >>something that just doesn't seem to work in the real world. He claims D >>that Intel "threw out all the good parts of the x86 because peopleH >>thought those parts were ugly. They aren't ugly, they're the 'charming! >>oddity' that makes it do well."  > ' > It seems to me that this is nonsense.   D     The press didn't bother including the fact that this whole thing#    is an appeal to false authority.   '     Linus is not a chip architect guru.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:29:33 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E5CA51D.4090002@nospamn.sun.com>   Zane H. Healy wrote:/ > Keith A. Lewis <lewis@probe.mitre.org> wrote:  > @ >>1.  "Linux" is not an OS, it's an x86 kernel for the GNU OS.   >  > N > Linux is an OS.  Hurd (ever hear of that toy) is the kernel for the GNU OS. O > It just happened that the GNU tools were a good fit when Linux needed tools.  G > In the early days you could find people running either the BSD or GNU  > versions of various tools.   > G > I suppose you're one of those Stallmanites that think Linux should be J > refered to as GNU/Linux?  Rememeber there is a lot more stuff in a LinuxJ > distro that isn't GNU than is.  The only real GNU dependency is GCC, and@ > that's only becuase it was the logical choice for a compilier. >   9 Oh dear. This is going to be rather like the Monty Python 8 Life of Brian What did the Romans ever do for us sketch.  / How about the c librarys only a small amount of ' code here !!! ever heard of glibc ?????  Shells, bash, mc
 shellutils	 textutils  Autoconf Automake Cpio Tar  Grep Gnome  GTK  System Accounting  Revison control  Etc etc etc     3 In addition Apache, Samba and a whole host of other 2 stuff used exensively in Linux distros has nothing to do with Linux.   2 Most of the network stack from routing to dhcp/nfs7 nis/bind, ftpd etc all comes from non Linux sources. Or 2 at least they do in RedHat I cannot be bothered to look at the other distros.    A In reality only about 5% of a Linux disto is actually what people ; think of as Linux, the rest is aquired from GNU, Apache.org  Samba, FreBSD, Sun etc etc.   9 Without the existing OpenSource/Freeware apps Linux would 8 not exist because the amount of work required to develop9 their equivalents would have killed the project before it  even got started.   0 And I say this not as a Stallmanite far from it.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:58:38 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E5CC80E.4070500@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E5BA963.5000809@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >>[ >>>In article <3E5B9CE7.1000707@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>0 >>>>So he is right and by default you are wrong. >>>> >>>  >>> A >>>	No, it wasn't me saying that so I wouldn't be wrong no matter D >>>	how you spin the discussion.  And no David wasn't/isn't wrong.   >>>	Check the context. >>>  >>9 >>Hang on since you can get 2.4 GHz MP Xeon based systems ; >>how can the statement that you can only get 2 GHz systems 
 >>be true ???  >> >  > - > 	That wasn't a statement in the discussion.  >   3 Wasn't it so you don't remember cutting and pasting  this to the newsgroup do you.   E "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequency A for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it's E 1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701 ? [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."   = Since you can currently buy 2.4 Ghz MP Xeon based systems the > above is incorrect. You didn't write it but you cut and pasted' it which wasn't terribly clever was it.   > Of course you defense could be that the 2.4 GHz CPU's are in a: smaller process, but that then makes the above correct but: irrelevant to the discussion. I am not sure which is worse incorrect of irrelevant.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:24:08 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 8 Subject: RE: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBOGLAA.tom@kednos.com>   J In 1982 IBM put VMS on the desktop, but wisely withdrew it.  Granted thereK are significant differences between MVS and VMS, but HP doesn't have enough L money to compete in the desktop space.  Even IBM abandoned it some years ago and focused on servers.    >-----Original Message----- 8 >From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]) >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:03 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!  >  >  >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: @ >> I seriously doubt he even cares that VMS will run on Itanium. > @ >Because VMS is declared dead in the public mind and never makes >any big public 4 >noises, it is no threath to anyone and not noticed. > I >But if the owners of VMS were to put it back into the limelight, make it A >scalable from desktop to datacenter again, I think that Torvalds  >would start >to worry about VMS. >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:42:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!3 Message-ID: <5$06O5xI8vsD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3E5CC80E.4070500@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote:[ >> In article <3E5BA963.5000809@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>   >>>  >>>Rob Young wrote:  >>> \ >>>>In article <3E5B9CE7.1000707@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >>> 1 >>>>>So he is right and by default you are wrong.  >>>>>  >>>> >>>>B >>>>	No, it wasn't me saying that so I wouldn't be wrong no matterE >>>>	how you spin the discussion.  And no David wasn't/isn't wrong.    >>>>	Check the context.  >>>> >>> : >>>Hang on since you can get 2.4 GHz MP Xeon based systems< >>>how can the statement that you can only get 2 GHz systems >>>be true ??? >>>  >>   >>  . >> 	That wasn't a statement in the discussion. >>   > 5 > Wasn't it so you don't remember cutting and pasting  > this to the newsgroup do you.  > G > "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequency C > for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it's G > 1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701 A > [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."  > ? > Since you can currently buy 2.4 Ghz MP Xeon based systems the  > above is incorrect.   C 	Not at all.  Those statements of his are absolutely correct and he @ 	has footnotes to prove it (that is what the brackets mean, they 	refer to footnotes).   B 	Now Andrew here is where you are clearly wrong.  No where in this 	paragraph:   F  "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequencyB  for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it'sF  1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701@  [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."   	 > 	Does he mention 2.4 GHz parts and the feature size to go with? 	it?  To assume that David Mosberger doesn't know about 2.4 GHz @ 	or is ignoring it wouldn't be correct either.  Read the threads? 	Andrew.  But you aren't interested in that are you?  You're in @ 	a twisty little passage and intend to debate semantics and what= 	not as you have nothing other than bluster.  Typical Andrew.   @ > Of course you defense could be that the 2.4 GHz CPU's are in a< > smaller process, but that then makes the above correct but< > irrelevant to the discussion. I am not sure which is worse > incorrect of irrelevant.  @ 	That of course would be where you would be incorrect.  Read the? 	entire thread.  As I pointed out at the outset... Linus didn't < 	do well in his replies to David Mosberger and the number of> 	exchanges bear that out.  Don't attempt to lift pieces of theA 	disucssion in the kernel development group, you lose the context = 	and folks that don't go back and read the threads would come D 	away to think they are comparing the highest speed parts out there. 	They aren't and weren't.     = 	And further examination shows Mosberger certainly knows what  	he is talking about:   > http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/2020.html  C   Linus> So your "apples to apples" comparison isn't exactly that.      C I never claimed it's an apples to apples comparison. But comparing  E same-process chips from the same manufacturer does make for a fairer  G "architectural" comparison because it factors out at least some of the  G effects caused by volume (there is no reason other than (a) volume and  E (b) being designed as a server chip for Itanium chips to come out on  : the same process later than the corresponding x86 chips).    ---   > 	See for yourself.  In the discussion ,  Linus doesn't bear upC 	well.  But of course the rags seize on Linus bad-mouthing Itanium. C 	Close examination shows there is a lot of bluster but little else.   @ 	Read the thread Andrew.  Pick some pieces to support your case. 	Betcha can't find any ;-).    	Spin on Andrew.   				Rob    N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both.  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:17:16 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!% Message-ID: <3E5CDA7C.40008@MMaz.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    >"Zane H. Healy" wrote:  >    > ? >>I seriously doubt he even cares that VMS will run on Itanium.  >>     >> > O >Because VMS is declared dead in the public mind and never makes any big public 4 >noises, it is no threath to anyone and not noticed. > I >But if the owners of VMS were to put it back into the limelight, make it M >scalable from desktop to datacenter again, I think that Torvalds would start  >to worry about VMS. >  >    > E Nah...  If you are going to set a target from which to garner market  F share, you do not focus on the small peanuts (ie. VMS) but the larger E giants (in terms of number of systems like MS); It is much easier to  I attract a small percentage of disgruntled users from the larger piece of  G the pie than from the smaller piece which often consists of entrenched  A or 'trapped' users of legacy gear/software and those that are no  H disgruntle, wouldn't dump their VMS system just because their can still  draw value from it.   B I doubt that Linus will ever care what happens to VMS, other than D perhaps to take technology ideas and integrated them into the Linux ! kernel, but it'll never 'be VMS.'    Barry    --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:06:55 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E5CD80F.3000901@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E5CC80E.4070500@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >>[ >>>In article <3E5BA963.5000809@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>>  >>>  >>>>Rob Young wrote: >>>> >>>>] >>>>>In article <3E5B9CE7.1000707@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>>>2 >>>>>>So he is right and by default you are wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> C >>>>>	No, it wasn't me saying that so I wouldn't be wrong no matter F >>>>>	how you spin the discussion.  And no David wasn't/isn't wrong.   >>>>>	Check the context. >>>>>  >>>>; >>>>Hang on since you can get 2.4 GHz MP Xeon based systems = >>>>how can the statement that you can only get 2 GHz systems  >>>>be true ???  >>>> >>>  >>> . >>>	That wasn't a statement in the discussion. >>>  >>5 >>Wasn't it so you don't remember cutting and pasting  >>this to the newsgroup do you.  >>G >>"I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequency C >>for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it's G >>1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701 A >>[2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."  >>? >>Since you can currently buy 2.4 Ghz MP Xeon based systems the  >>above is incorrect.  >  > E > 	Not at all.  Those statements of his are absolutely correct and he B > 	has footnotes to prove it (that is what the brackets mean, they > 	refer to footnotes).  > D > 	Now Andrew here is where you are clearly wrong.  No where in this
 > 	paragraph:  > H >  "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequencyD >  for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it'sH >  1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701B >  [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]." >  > 	 @ > 	Does he mention 2.4 GHz parts and the feature size to go withA > 	it?  To assume that David Mosberger doesn't know about 2.4 GHz B > 	or is ignoring it wouldn't be correct either.  Read the threadsA > 	Andrew.  But you aren't interested in that are you?  You're in B > 	a twisty little passage and intend to debate semantics and what? > 	not as you have nothing other than bluster.  Typical Andrew.  > < No but Rob even you must be able to work out the a statement= that says "the highest clock frequency available for" implies ; that CPU's above that frequency of whatever clock speed bet - it 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or even 2.4 arn't available.   : Now if as it is fairly obvious David is trying to make the5 point that process for process e.g 180 nanometer then 7 IPF is faster then fine however its an irrelevant point 4 because P4/Xeons are available in a smaller process.  8 And they are available in the smaller process before IPF7 because they have a much lower transistor count and die  size.   : Or put it another way, whatever the advantage IPF may have2 over Xeon on an equal process standpoint Xeon/IA328 is likely to remain ahead of IPF because it will get the* smaller faster processes earlier than IPF.  8 You and David appear to be the people stuck and a twisty; little maze of passages or at least you appear to be trying 8 to entice other people in there with your argument which< is irrelevant because its the available process size for the= CPU that counts and not the perfromance in a similar process.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 09:37:31 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!3 Message-ID: <1LIiPRmvSlHD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3E5CD80F.3000901@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote:  E >> 	Now Andrew here is where you are clearly wrong.  No where in this  >> 	paragraph: >>  I >>  "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequency E >>  for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it's I >>  1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701 C >>  [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."  >>   >> 	A >> 	Does he mention 2.4 GHz parts and the feature size to go with B >> 	it?  To assume that David Mosberger doesn't know about 2.4 GHzC >> 	or is ignoring it wouldn't be correct either.  Read the threads B >> 	Andrew.  But you aren't interested in that are you?  You're inC >> 	a twisty little passage and intend to debate semantics and what @ >> 	not as you have nothing other than bluster.  Typical Andrew. >>  > > No but Rob even you must be able to work out the a statement? > that says "the highest clock frequency available for" implies = > that CPU's above that frequency of whatever clock speed bet / > it 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or even 2.4 arn't available.  >   / 	Ah Andrew, you are almost there!!! Let's help:   . 	"the highest clock frequency available for"    4 	for what?  Did Andrew leave something out?  Andrew 3 	wouldn't do that would he?   Why, methinks he did!   6 	"highest clock frequency for a 0.18 um part is 2 GHz"   	Does that help?   				Rob   N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both+  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:58:27 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!. Message-ID: <3E5CE423.8030709@nospamn.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:Z > In article <3E5CD80F.3000901@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >> >>Rob Young wrote: >  > E >>>	Now Andrew here is where you are clearly wrong.  No where in this  >>>	paragraph: >>> I >>> "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequency E >>> for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it's I >>> 1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701 C >>> [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]."  >>>  >>>	A >>>	Does he mention 2.4 GHz parts and the feature size to go with B >>>	it?  To assume that David Mosberger doesn't know about 2.4 GHzC >>>	or is ignoring it wouldn't be correct either.  Read the threads B >>>	Andrew.  But you aren't interested in that are you?  You're inC >>>	a twisty little passage and intend to debate semantics and what @ >>>	not as you have nothing other than bluster.  Typical Andrew. >>>  >>> >>No but Rob even you must be able to work out the a statement? >>that says "the highest clock frequency available for" implies = >>that CPU's above that frequency of whatever clock speed bet / >>it 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or even 2.4 arn't available.  >> >  > 1 > 	Ah Andrew, you are almost there!!! Let's help:  > 0 > 	"the highest clock frequency available for"   > 6 > 	for what?  Did Andrew leave something out?  Andrew 5 > 	wouldn't do that would he?   Why, methinks he did!  > 8 > 	"highest clock frequency for a 0.18 um part is 2 GHz" >  > 	Does that help? >   6 No because its a BS debating point it has no impact on the actual available parts.   5 Have you ever heard of the descriptions speed deamons 3 and brainiacs used to describe processors obviously  not.  1 IA32 is a speed deamon its design allows it to be 3 clocked faster and implimented in a smaller process ! earlier than a brainiac like IPF.   5 The early Alphas were speed deamons, high clock speed 6 low instructions per cycle. This has changed with EV7.  2 This has nothing to do with the technical merit of0 the processor it is just a different way to meet the same performance goal.  / And at the moment Xeons are winning because IPF + is over complex and isn't meeting its clock 0 speed goals while IA32 has sacrificed complexity for clock speed.  2 Do you buy a processor because of its process size or because of its performance ?   / Do the design choices made when designing a CPU 0 have any impact on the die size and process size it can be implimented in ?  - You are doomed to keep on thrashing around in 0 the wilderness making irrelevant debating points2 unless you understand these very basic principles.   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 12:01:05 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!3 Message-ID: <QnIYMYzx7n8j@eisner.encompasserve.org>   X In article <3E5CE423.8030709@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > Rob Young wrote:[ >> In article <3E5CD80F.3000901@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes:  >>   >>>  >>>Rob Young wrote:  >>   >>  F >>>>	Now Andrew here is where you are clearly wrong.  No where in this >>>>	paragraph:  >>>>J >>>> "I don't think so. According to Intel [1], the highest clockfrequencyF >>>> for a 0.18um part is 2GHz (both for Xeon and P4, for Xeon MP it'sJ >>>> 1.5GHz). The highest reported SPECint for a 2GHz Xeon seems to be 701D >>>> [2]. In comparison, a 1GHz McKinley gets a SPECint of 810 [3]." >>>> >>>>	 B >>>>	Does he mention 2.4 GHz parts and the feature size to go withC >>>>	it?  To assume that David Mosberger doesn't know about 2.4 GHz D >>>>	or is ignoring it wouldn't be correct either.  Read the threadsC >>>>	Andrew.  But you aren't interested in that are you?  You're in D >>>>	a twisty little passage and intend to debate semantics and whatA >>>>	not as you have nothing other than bluster.  Typical Andrew.  >>>> >>> ? >>>No but Rob even you must be able to work out the a statement @ >>>that says "the highest clock frequency available for" implies> >>>that CPU's above that frequency of whatever clock speed bet0 >>>it 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or even 2.4 arn't available. >>>  >>   >>  2 >> 	Ah Andrew, you are almost there!!! Let's help: >>  1 >> 	"the highest clock frequency available for"    >>  7 >> 	for what?  Did Andrew leave something out?  Andrew  6 >> 	wouldn't do that would he?   Why, methinks he did! >>  9 >> 	"highest clock frequency for a 0.18 um part is 2 GHz"  >>   >> 	Does that help?  >>   > 8 > No because its a BS debating point it has no impact on > the actual available parts.  >   9 	Can you show me where in the context of that discussion  2 	they were debating whether any P4 was faster than= 	Itanium and Mosberger claimed otherwise?   No.  Whether they , 	were comparing fastest shipping parts?  No.  < 	The crux of the debate that Linus so obviously falls short,A 	was slamming Itanium.  Based on what merits?  Well Linus waffles @ 	and has nothing regardless of direction he swings the debate.     	Mosberger writes:  > http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.2/2020.html  B   Linus> So your "apples to apples" comparison isn't exactly that.  B I never claimed it's an apples to apples comparison. But comparingD same-process chips from the same manufacturer does make for a fairerF "architectural" comparison because it factors out at least some of theF effects caused by volume (there is no reason other than (a) volume andD (b) being designed as a server chip for Itanium chips to come out on9 the same process later than the corresponding x86 chips).   D Linus> The only thing that is meaningful is "performace at the same & Linus> time of general availability".   B You claimed that x86 is inherently superior. I provided data that D shows that much of this apparent superiority is simply an effect of C the larger volume that x86 achieves today. Please don't claim that  E x86 wins on technical grounds when it really wins on economic grounds      ---   ? 	And at that point, Linus is basically shredded.  So publically ? 	he badmouths Itanium and when it comes down to defending those @ 	views, he falls short.  Like you.  You prattle on about 2.4 GHzA 	Xeons.  But those parts were never part of the discussion and if A 	they were, Mosberger would have addressed that tangent I'm sure. @ 	Just like he addressed Linus' tangents.  Very well I would say.  ; 	Care to cut and paste something Mosberger says that proves F 	otherwise?  Cut and paste something Linus says that proves otherwise?   	Betcha can't.    9 	You huff and puff and you still aren't getting anywhere.   #                                 Rob   N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both,  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:16:02 +0100 0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: MSIE ftp hangs FTPD0 Message-ID: <Ht07a.431$fm4.339@news.cpqcorp.net>  D <lbalders@gte.net> wrote in message news:3E5BDEA7.EBBE0D3@gte.net..." > Hi Grard, here it is. Thanks, L >   > UAF> sho *ftp< > Username: UCX$FTP                          Owner:  UCX$FTP< > Account:  UCX$FTP                          UIC:    [375,1] > ([UCX$AUX,UCX$FTP]) > > CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES# > Default:  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[UCX$FTP]  > LGICMD:   LOGIN  > Flags:  Restricted% > Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri - > Secondary days:                     Sat Sun H > Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222H > Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123H > Network:  ##### Full access ######            ##### Full access ######H > Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H > Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H > Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------H > Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F > Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0@ > Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)@ > Last Login:            (none) (interactive), 25-FEB-2003 05:36 > (non-interactive) ; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:        50  Bytlm:       108000 ; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 ; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:        96  JTquota:       4096 ; > Prclm:           8  DIOlm:        96  WSdef:          350 ; > Prio:            8  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:          512 ; > Queprio:         4  TQElm:        15  WSextent:       512 ; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:       100  Pgflquo:      10240    Hello   . Your Tqelm is too low for the ucx$ftp account., Your service limit is 50 for the TP service.H If you really want to allow 50 simultaneous FTP transfers at a time, you shouldB $ mc authorize mod ucx$ftp/tqelm=100/bytlm=500000/pgflquota=200000 then stop and restart Ftp.  : And if you have some spare time, put the eco 10 of Ucx 4.1   regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:44:31 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the/ Message-ID: <3E5C6246.30163A9E@vl.videotron.ca>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided that G > starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting with D > "M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than > Itanium ?  > # > So what happens to the VMS name ?   L The owners of VMS seem to insist on changing the name every couple of years.E Not sure if the damage to VMS is intentional or if they really do not J understand the impact of these silly name changes. So if "Itanium" changes8 name, they'll gladly go through another VMS name change.  K Heck, Windows changes name with every version, Shirley the VMS group can do  the same with VMS ? N (there is a difference: Windows is marketed big time. Change of name announcesN a brand new version with lots more bugs and holes for viruses. For VMS, change" of name has absolutely no meaning.  L With shared code, you'll have two different products that do the same thing,( one on Alpha and one on that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:16:09 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for theL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602030716090001@user-uinj0ik.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E5C6246.30163A9E@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Larry Kilgallen wrote: F >> Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided thatH >> starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting withE >> "M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than  >> Itanium ? >>  $ >> So what happens to the VMS name ? > M >The owners of VMS seem to insist on changing the name every couple of years. F >Not sure if the damage to VMS is intentional or if they really do notK >understand the impact of these silly name changes. So if "Itanium" changes 9 >name, they'll gladly go through another VMS name change.   C They haven't "changed" the name of anything.  OpenVMS Alpha remains % OpenVMS Alpha.  Same for OpenVMS VAX.   E The new name is for a new line of products.  They couldn't really use H "OpenVMS Alpha" for the new stuff, could they?  They seem to have pickedB an inoffensive (if silly) name that doesn't annoy Intel's lawyers.  D Everyone will continue to call it (Open)VMS in the general case, and= (Open)VMS I64 when they refer to the specific implementation.   H If the name "OpenVMS I64" offends you, you should probably find a hobby,F like naming each resistor and capacitor in your almighty MicroVAX II. - Post the names here and see if folks approve.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:43:01 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the0 Message-ID: <Fv37a.454$Xt4.102@news.cpqcorp.net>  . In article <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>, ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   ? >You are allowed to use trademarks for a variety of things. ...   = I don't think this includes using somebody else's tradmark as  part of your trademark.    --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:25:25 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE_re?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q? . Message-ID: <3E5C9615.3040006@nospamn.sun.com>   Shane Smith wrote:B > Hmmmm, Andrew is defending Opteron. Maybe that article about SunG > debuting an Opteron product at the chip's launch just gained a little  > more credibility.  >   ? I have no idea if Sun is considering using Opteron, though from @ its SPECs we would have to consider it for our x86 Solaris/Linux boxes.  < It isn't a question of defending Opteron, it more a question of bursting the IPF BS bubble.   regards  Andrew Harrison    > Shane  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  >  > Rob Young wrote: > : >>In article <3E56806F.8E16A8C6@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei > + > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  >  >>>Sue Skonetski wrote:  >>>  >>> % >>>>"hp OpenVMS Industry Standard 64"  >>> H >>>Is this an official announcement that VMS is being ported to HAMMER ? >>> O >>>IA64 is NOT industry standard. Please, put that into everyone's head at HP.   >>>  >> >>A >>	At one time, IA32 wasn't industry standard either.  It appears A >>	they are getting a jump on branding and marketing.  Smart move  >>	on their part.  >> >> >>G >>>Until the port to Hammer is officially announced, you are misleading  >> > customers  > N >>>by using "industry standard". The industry standard is the 8086. And HammerG >>>will, for now, be the only one offering a 64 bit version of industry  >> > standard.  >  >>4 >>	John McCalpin (Dr. John, author of STREAM, formerG >>	professor at Univerisity of Delaware, former SGI employee, currently = >>	at IBM in high performance design) tells us the following:  >> >> > O > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b334r4%248sg%241%40ausnews.austin.ibm.co  > m&oe=UTF-8 > 1 >>From: McCalpin (mccalpin@gmp246.austin.ibm.com) 0 >>Subject: Re: Same cache block optimizations?? ' >>View: Complete Thread (14 articles)    >>Original Format  >>Newsgroups: comp.arch  >>Date: 2003-02-20 >>D >>"Without directories, Opteron systems are not likely to scale veryB >>well past 4 cpus.   The low-dimension interconnect combined withA >>the broadcast snoops will result in both a significant increase C >>in memory latency (local and remote) as well as a high percentage B >>of the HT links' bandwidth being used for snoops and responses." >> >> >  > 5 > Well even if this is correct and I wouldn't want to 5 > argue with John its probably not that relevant. For  > a number of reasons. > 7 > Firstly, while 4 may be the optimum configuration for 3 > Opteron it doesn't preclude people building 8 way 4 > systems. You of all people should know that moving4 > from say 4 to 8 CPU's with a longer latency hasn't3 > stopped people selling or designing systems, this 4 > describes the current 2-8 Xeon market well as well > as the lamentable GS160/320. > 4 > Secondly 1-8 CPU's is the market where Intel makes3 > the bulk of its margins. Losing significant share 1 > int he premium x86 market will hurt Intel badly 1 > and anything that hurst Intel will also hurt HP % > because of their dependance in IPF.  > 4 > Itanium based on current Itanium II package prices8 > from HP seems destined for the 8 way and above market.3 > 94K for a 4 way box is a lot when compared with 4 3 > Way RISC servers from Sun/IBM or 4 way IA32 boxes  > 8 > And anyway Itanium isn't currently margin positive and, > its units volumes are low to non existant. > 8 > So Opteron is most likely initially to eat into Intels5 > revenues where they hurt most in the IA32 space for  > premium desktops and servers.  > 9 > Thirdly AMD are developing a Hammer CPU that has better < > support for more CPU's. It may have escaped you notice but; > currently HP's largest Itanium II server supports 4 CPU's ; > because HP didn't have a support chipset for more. Hammer > > has this on-chip so what AMD are doing is not very different< > to what HP have had to do to get more than 4 way Itaniums. > < > Once AMD get there though they will have a much lower cost$ > base to work against than Itanium. > ; > Intel talk blythely about 5K Itanium II systems but their = > biggest OEM HP is intent on charging ~23K per CPU in actual 2 > packages. Is HP intent in limiting demand, uping> > margins or do they simply not want to operate at the kind ofA > margin they currently do in the IA32 space simply to keep Intel 
 > profitable.  > 	 > regards  > Andrew Harrison  >  >  > @ >>	Read the follow-up threads.  The conclusion there was/is thatB >>	Red Storm (the 10000 CPU Sandia Opteron) is a T3E knock-off and >>	not cache coherent. >>F >>	Now perhaps you may wish to wander over to comp.arch and straightenB >>	those guys out or tell us how we will see an 8, 16+ CPU OpteronA >>	box in the next 2 years?  That would be helpful to stating and C >>	supporting a case for Opteron's greatness or would help convince  >>	me. >>F >>	Point is, Opteron will have its nice little niche and will no doubt< >>	make Intel crank and crank and lower prices on Xeon.  But3 >>	it isn't a very interesting debate.  Or is it?    >>D >>	Maybe a large upward trend in AMD stock price and/or AMD Opteron C >>	partners to show something fantastic about to be sprung on us?   F >>	Sun selling them?  Well... okay, but where is the stock movement or= >>	any ancillary evidence Opteron will gain traction for AMD?  >>	 >>				Rob  >>G >>"FIRE God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, not of philosophers and scholars, N >>Certainty, certainty, heartfelt, joy, peace. God of Jesus Christ. My God andL >>your God, Thy God shall be my God."   -- Blaise Pascal - November 23, 1654 >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:51:11 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai . Message-ID: <3E5C9C1F.6050507@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:09:23 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  >>< >>But as we now all know this is untrue, there were articles= >>that were worthy of discussion which also proved to be easy 
 >>to find. >  > G > There were LOTS of articles to be more precise.  As I've stated many, E > many times to you, it should not be up to me to slog through all of 0 > them to find the ones that support your views. >     Why are you labouring the point.  C I said that some of your customers had posted articles highlighting A performance issues when moving from GS140 to GS160/320 because of ( the the newer systems NUMA architecture.  ( You claimed not to be able to find them.  6 In fact as we they existed and were very easy to find.  A In addition these issues were apparently common knowledge in your A company raising the additional question of why you persisted with A your postings when due diligence on your part should have suggest ? that a more sensible course of actoin was silence on your part.     F >>In the circumstances you have only ONE option which is to appologiseE >>for the last 2 years worth of postings on this subject and get back  >>to your day job. >   5 What failings ? If you can articulate what they are I 9 will be happy to respond to your claims as it is you seem 	 intent on    > D > Wow, you are sure full of yourself.  You can't even admit your own? > failings, and yet you expect the rest of use to admit to YOUR 3 > definition of our own failings.  What a hypocrit.  > D > The fact is that I have never, ever, put forth the contention that? > there are no performance issues in gs160/320 systems for some F > applications.  I wouldn't make the mistake of going that far outsideH > of my own experience.  However, you on the other hand, have no problemC > making blanket statements that the GS160/320 is slower, based on, H > what?, maybe 3 or 4 experiences.  I've got more direct experience thatC > contradicts your position, therefore I know that it's not a valid # > general statement of performance.  > B > Using your technique of arguing performance, I can state that myF > experience with customer sites who found the Sun systems slower thanG > gs-systems proves that Sun is slower.  So what?  It proves nothing as B > I'm sure that there are always some applications that particularD > architectures will perform better/worse on than others.  It proves
 > nothing. > B Well if you can provide actual collateral that supports your claim then bring it forward.  B But thats the difference isn't it, your own benchmark results, theA statements of your own engineers and public statements of some of ? your own customers support my argument while you seem unable to H provide anything to support your views appart from you own "experience".     >>The article says >>I >>"We were running with 8 CPU GS140s on what today are rather slow CPUs.  C >>Only a single application was run on the units consisting of many J >>simultaneous processes communicating extensively through global memory. I >> Think of the application as a medium sized transaction box.   We tried I >>increasing the CPU count, but diminishing returns made 8 CPUs appear to  >>be a good place to stop."  >>@ >>This sounds very very like a DBMS since its how Oracle etc are >>architected. >  > E > "Sounds very very like" is not the same thing as "Is the same thing  > as". >   ; Well why don't you simply stop BS'ing then and ask your own < engineers what kind of apps they consider to be at risk from the NUMA penalty on GS160/320s.   8 Multiple process shared global memory applications doing: transactions, sounds very like most DBMS's so why did this) ring alarm bells with your engineers ????   : And of course we also know that GS160/320s do in fact have6 performance issue with OLTP DBMS workloads because you8 have published a series of TPC-C results that prove this beyond any doubt.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:01:13 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy Y Subject: Re: OpenVMS.org: Marvel article and HP's press release for Marveland Alpha Retai . Message-ID: <3E5CC8A9.4010007@nospamn.sun.com>   jlsue wrote:G > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:14:20 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 0 > <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote: >  >  >> >>jlsue wrote: >>H >>>On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:35:01 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy1 >>><Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> @ >>>>If you want another nail to the GS160 perfromance lie coffin? >>>>then look no further than your own TPC-C benchmark results.  >>>>@ >>>>A GS140 with 8 x 700 MHz CPU's posted a result of 42,437 TPMA >>>>A GS160 with 16 x 731 MHz CPU's posted a result of 55,221 TPM  >>>>H >>>>It doesn't take a genius to work out that this isn't a demonstration, >>>>that the NUMA architecture is effective. >>>> >>>  >>> H >>>If my applications were TPC-C benchmarks, I might actually care about% >>>that.  Since they're not, I don't.  >>>  >> >>3 >>So the ground has moved yet again. Now you simply 5 >>want to rule out anything that doesn't interest you 
 >>personally.  >  > F > I see, so what you're saying now is that customers should make their6 > buying decisions based on these kinds of benchmarks? > D > Sorry, I don't advise customers that way.  We try to get their ownH > apps benchmarked to demonstrate the value they will receive from their
 > investment.  >   ; But you cannot provide any actual example of this or havn't  been able to so far.   More hand waving.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:31:54 +0000 (UTC) . From: "Sanface Software" <sanface@sanface.com> Subject: Plug: txt2pdf 6.4H Message-ID: <4ae1fec2877165adc337957a57d3b1af.93245@mygate.mailgate.org>  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 6.4 version.  # http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html E txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful Perl5 script H that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it in every8 operating systems supported by Perl5, including OpenVMS.  ; It's simple to design background like invoices, orders etc. ) Here nice examples made using txt2pdf PRO - http://www.sanface.com/pdf/Purchase_Order.pdf & http://www.sanface.com/pdf/invoice.pdf$ http://www.sanface.com/pdf/hfmus.pdf) http://www.sanface.com/pdf/heraldbill.pdf @ If you prefer we also distribute executables for Windows, Linux," Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and Mac OS X.   What's new in this version  0 inputmod and outputmod features to make plug-ins   Test txt2pdf 6.4! 6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html     --  8 Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:25:57 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1: Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKOEPKCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  L now I know a little bit more about our problems. I did install and test JavaI on a dual CPU DS20 AlphaStation. If I do stopp one of them the problem is F away. The command $java -version do never hang regards less of version4 (V1.3.1-5 or 1.4.0-1) and type (Fast VM or Classic).L Does anybody have an idea, what the problem could be, if I will have a multi
 CPU Alpha?   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:03:26 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1) Message-ID: <3E5C74CE.6090000@vajhoej.dk>    Rudolf Wingert wrote: N > now I know a little bit more about our problems. I did install and test JavaK > on a dual CPU DS20 AlphaStation. If I do stopp one of them the problem is H > away. The command $java -version do never hang regards less of version6 > (V1.3.1-5 or 1.4.0-1) and type (Fast VM or Classic).N > Does anybody have an idea, what the problem could be, if I will have a multi > CPU Alpha?   Are you uptodate with patches ?   7 If yes and you have a service contract, then you should  contact HP !   Arne  9 PS: "Fast VM" is mandatory for real usage - the other one       is just too slow.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:53:24 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>2 Subject: Re: Problems with Java and OpenVMS V7.3-1: Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKAEPNCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Arne wrotes:   >>> L Are you uptodate with patches ? If yes and you have a service contract, then
 you should contact HP ! <<<   I Yes I am uptodate with patches (I hope so, I have only to install the TDF I patch, which arrived me at monday). Yes we do have a service contract and K there is an open call for that problem. But sometimes (most times) you will  get faster/better support here.   # TIA and best regards Rudolf Wingert    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:14:55 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 7 Subject: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] ; Message-ID: <01KSWGPQ7RPU9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G I'm surprised I got so little (actually no) response to my rather long    post involving pseudointerfaces.  I Let me summarise: Has anyone successfully used an interface created with   TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE?    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 09:49:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) H Subject: Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language?3 Message-ID: <$xH8ib0LgNyI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <1046235599.53563@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>, "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> writes:  > Dear All,  > H > Do you have idea retrieve an integer from a longword variable, in RMS? >   B    Please see the C User's Guide where it talks about working in aB    multilanguage environment.  That should releive you of any such    strange notions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:02:38 +0100 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>6 Subject: Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword.) Message-ID: <3E5C668E.8020001@vajhoej.dk>   
 Albert wrote: N > After opened a RMS file, and get a longword data, but how to get the integerL > value of this data.  Could you advice any idea about retrieving an integer > from longword data type?  5 I am not sure that I understand the question correct.    A longword is an integer.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:53:10 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword./ Message-ID: <3E5C644C.656E3F03@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Albert wrote: N > After opened a RMS file, and get a longword data, but how to get the integer > value of this data.   & A longword is a 4 byte (32 bit) value.  L You really need to tell us what programming language you are using so we can provide some help.  K If it is in DCL with a READ statement sending the data to a DCL symbol, you  cane specify bit patterns.   myint = F$CVSI(0,32,therecord)  M This will take the first 32 bits of the string "therecord" and place it as an  integer into myint.    HELP LEX F$CVSI    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:00:18 +0100 ( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>8 Subject: Re: Questions about SEARCH under OpenVMS V7.3-1: Message-ID: <MDEJJFGEEOPAFONJONBKGEPNCMAA.win@fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K Mister Erwin Riebel (HP support center Germany) did find out the reason for : the strange behavior. I did execute the following command:F $PIPE SEARCH/MATCH=NOR back.list .DIR | grep/KEY=(POS=1,SIZ=1) [ ; TheL symbol grep is defined as: grep="SEARCH SYS$INPUT. The problem was that, theF KEY qualifier must be positioned behind the command SEARCH. If not the output will be errornous.    TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:25:16 -0800$ From: john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com (jm)) Subject: Re: Samba Missing stropts.h file = Message-ID: <c67e4bdd.0302260825.3c19c0c7@posting.google.com>   u martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<3e5bd1e6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>... ' > jm (john_20_28_2000@yahoo.com) wrote: G > > Also, I couldn't figure out how to see what compiler version I had. ( > > "Help CC" didn't reveal the version. >  > $ CC /VERSION  >  > cu, 
 >   Martin  F I have version 5.something.  Compaq says it is about ten years old.  IC think I have found my problem.  Thanks.  Incidentally, /version did F not give the information, I had to find the image and issue /analyze. 
 Thanks again.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:01:36 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> > Subject: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?); Message-ID: <01KSW7UFG6KI9FNHX8@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>    > [DO] DEFINE KEY # > Enter TPU command: SHIFT RIGHT 40 ? > Press the key you want defined  (key sequence of your choice)  >  > [DO] DEFINE KEY " > Enter TPU command: SHIFT LEFT 40> > Press the key you want defined (key sequence of your choice) > N > This shifts the window onto long records while keeping each long line as one > long line.  # A) This can be done in EDT as well:   . B) It is not the same thing as SET NOTRUNCATE.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:26:33 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com - Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detection 1 Message-ID: <03022608263359@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>    >>> McEagle wrote: >>> > 3 >>> > How about PINGing the switch every x minutes?  >>> M >>> I was about to ask a very similar question.  PING every X minutes doesn't - >>> provide instant notification of problem.   >>> N >>> There should be some sort of service you can establish a connection to andJ >>> leave "idle" 7/24, with an AST triggered if the connection is broken.  >>> 0 >>> Apart from pinging, is there any other way ? >>>   O I have experimented with network monitor applications and have found that PING, M setup to PING every one minute, does not work effectively.  I have noted that N PING will respond to a NETWORK device even though that device is failed or notL working properly, typically when PINGing another server.  Seems the physical; card is working properly however the TCPIP protocol is not.   L I have devised another method to monitor a network device and for heart-beat fail-over monitor purposes.   I 1) I open a file /append on a common disk.  As long as the process is not   killed, the file remains locked.  L 2) Other servers attempt to lock the file and find that the file is locked. O These processes will sleep for one minute and then start the check-lock process 	 all over.   M 3) If the file is not locked then the process will continue with its designed  code.    A few notes:  E This uses DECnet, however the concept could be modified to use TCPIP.   O This was also designed for a cluster environment, however it could be setup for  standalone nodes as well.   N This is written in DCL and there is a 1 minute delay.  If the code was writtenM in FORTAN (or whatever) using $QIOW system service routine, it could be event C driven.  I found the 1 minute delay to be adequate for my purposes.     H The problem with this?  It is a server to server (VMS) process.  You areL checking a switch.  If the switch is telnetable you could access the consoleL prompt of the switch.  Of it the switch has a serial console port, you couldO use a DECserver and connect the switch console port to the DECserver and access M it via telnet.  Either will work.  If this is not possible, then their is the L assumption process.  If you can access other servers on the switch, then theO switch is fine.  You could even use your own server to server if the server has 
 two NIC's.       John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:47:19 -0600  From: brandon@dalsemi.com - Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detection 1 Message-ID: <03022608471907@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   G > The problem is that if the switch fails our clients are automatically G > routed to our standby system by a router a little further up the line G > BUT I can't seem to make the Alpha realise that the switch has failed B > and perform some extra work. It just sits there listening on the
 > channel.    L Why not route over both switches?  Many times we setup a failover path, testK it, and forget about it.  When things fail they do not fail-over properly.  H Time takes its toll on fail-over intentions.  By using both switches youJ guarantee that they both work.  Use DNS to round-robin.  Some of the newerA features of DNS (or like products) check the path before routing.    John Brandon VMS Systems Administrator  Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wk  972.371.4003 fx    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:46:41 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>- Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detection 0 Message-ID: <3E81CB56.8ADE95E0@blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > McEagle wrote: > > 1 > > How about PINGing the switch every x minutes?  > K > I was about to ask a very similar question.  PING every X minutes doesn't * > provide instant notification of problem. > L > There should be some sort of service you can establish a connection to andG > leave "idle" 7/24, with an AST triggered if the connection is broken.   , One can do this with DECNET connections:-).   $ Not sure about IP, maybe with QIO's.   > . > Apart from pinging, is there any other way ?  N Implementing a timeout on the the socket connections. Not as clean as getting M an asych signal, though (but you must be confident the signal will always be  H delivered, any flakiness there will be no good at all). Also, only worksJ if the application is bespoke, source code available and amenable to being modified in your environment.    regards,   --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:20:11 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> - Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detection 8 Message-ID: <hkpp5von04l4p6ee69c8dthgt4d1om3mtp@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:46:41 GMT, Tim Llewellyn ' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:    >JF Mezei wrote: >>   >> McEagle wrote:  >> >2 >> > How about PINGing the switch every x minutes? >>  L >> I was about to ask a very similar question.  PING every X minutes doesn't+ >> provide instant notification of problem.  >>  M >> There should be some sort of service you can establish a connection to and H >> leave "idle" 7/24, with an AST triggered if the connection is broken. > - >One can do this with DECNET connections:-).   > % >Not sure about IP, maybe with QIO's.   K It is possible to specify "keepalive" when a socket is created.  However, I K can't find any obvious clues as to how one specifies the keepalive interval I (assuming you even can).  However, a detected broken connection will then  trigger some form of error.   L Decnet has automatic keepalive stuff built in.  It's at the circuit level, IJ think.  Hello timers, or something like that.  I've had asynchronous links2 remain up over modem hangups, redials, retrains...     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:55:05 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS / Message-ID: <3E5C64C0.1CCD8FCA@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > Hp would indeed have to question its own wisdom if it found itself in a H > position to consider action against the majority of its senior OpenVMS > technical staff.  L Considering that VMS was placed along with Tru64 and Alpha in the "redundantJ division of dead products", it seems to me that HP would see the VMS groupJ leaving as a simple acceleration of what would have, at one point in time, been its long term plans.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:38:11 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602030738110001@user-uinj0ik.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E5C64C0.1CCD8FCA@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:    M >Considering that VMS was placed along with Tru64 and Alpha in the "redundant K >division of dead products", it seems to me that HP would see the VMS group K >leaving as a simple acceleration of what would have, at one point in time,  >been its long term plans.  + Again, a fantasy which you state as a fact.   H HP has left VMS (for now) in the Alphaserver division, where it had beenI for several years under Compaq.  HP did NOT "place" VMS in ASD, it "left" 	 it there.   I Where would you place VMS in HP's organizational chart?  Why?  When would J you make the change?  How would you mitigate the disruptive effects of theJ change?  Keep in mind that the majority of VMS people are still working on; Alpha-related products and serving Alpha-related customers.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:16:07 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS = Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302260816.300163e1@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5C2529.42464111@fsi.net>...D > My compliments on having the courage to name names. Your company's, > manager(s) of marketing should be so bold.  D VMS Marketing IS so bold -- if you look closer at the list of URLs IF gave, you'll discover that almost all of my list was created by simplyA doing a browser search for the word "exchange" on the VMS Success F Stories website at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html,F where the VMS Marketing folks have painstakingly gathered testimonials2 from all the customers who were willing to do one.  F I know it's been fashionable in this venue to disparage VMS Marketing,2 but I don't think it's fair to do so in this case.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:10:05 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS H Message-ID: <1q77a.96317$Zr%.32351@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0302260816.300163e1@posting.google.com... > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# news:<3E5C2529.42464111@fsi.net>... F > > My compliments on having the courage to name names. Your company's. > > manager(s) of marketing should be so bold. > F > VMS Marketing IS so bold -- if you look closer at the list of URLs IA > gave, you'll discover that almost all of my list was created by  simplyC > doing a browser search for the word "exchange" on the VMS Success  > Stories website at3 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html, ; > where the VMS Marketing folks have painstakingly gathered  testimonials4 > from all the customers who were willing to do one. > = > I know it's been fashionable in this venue to disparage VMS 
 Marketing,4 > but I don't think it's fair to do so in this case.     Keith,   Sorry, but you don't get it.  E Yes there are nice 'success' stories on the HP web site. And I'm sure C that HP trots these out whenever an *exchange* invites HP in, or OM E Group goes to call on another exchange that isn't a current customer.   E BUT why the HELL isn't HP using these HIGH PROFILE, BUSINESS CRITICAL A successes in advertising to other industries in venues that reach C customers you might not otherwise talk with - publications like the F Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Barrons, ComputerWorld, Information Week,? The Economist, Financial Times, and other similar publications.   @ These are the sorts of stories that make people wake up and takeF notice, and begin to turn the lightbulbs on in the heads of directors,@ and CEO's, and IT heads. I don't recall the exact statistic, butF approximately 50% of the BOD members of companies of sales of $100M or> more annually are cross-linked, ie. get inside the head of oneC director and he brings the idea to the other boards he sits on. Duh + HP??? In basketball it's called a 'lay-up'.   B But then again, if HP gets in front of a director, HP would rather sell Billy-boxes.   . As a wild guess, what percentage of HP's totalD sales/marketing/customer contact center staff  (not total employees)E know what VMS is, that HP owns it, and are even remotely qualified to ; talk about it with customers? 1%? 2%? Is it even that high?     E I recently had to replace a home furnace. The salesperson the heating F contractor sent over was knowledgeable about most of the products theyC offered (furnaces manufactured by at least 10 different vendors, in C approximately 40 different configurations).  Now you might say that E heating and furnaces is simple compared to systems, and that may well B be true, but here was a guy who could explore the differences, theE advantages and disadvantages of each system. Can your WindBlows sales A types do this and honestly compare with VMS and Tandem too? nope.   F Maybe HP should modify its web site when it comes to showing customers: various systems, and put them into 3 categories on-screen:D Good - PC's and other Intel crap - when downtime and problems are ok9 Better - Unix stuff - less downtime but still problematic > Best - VMS and NSK systems - use this or you're outta business  E It would help to reinforce the pecking order and get the message out.   < In fact it would make a nice full page ad in the Wall Street
 Journal...D If you want s**t, we can sell you s**t just like Dell and Gateway...F If you want something better, we can sell you something as troublesomeB or as smooth as Sun sells you - it just depends how much money you throw at staff... = And if you want trouble-free 100% availability at competitive E price-points for your most critical and demanding uses, we've got the & best in the business - OpenVMS and NSK   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:40:40 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only3 Message-ID: <P0yQG9g7taQ5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <GO5UaZPfTAiV@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > E > I took his comment to mean that while TECO ships with VMS the macro  > TYPE.TEC does not.  F    I thought of that, but then either does a pure DCL solution that he    was asking for.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:04:31 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 7 Subject: Re: Type the beginning of a file only - Part 2 6 Message-ID: <b3is37$1mbso0$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>   Jeff Cameron wrote:  >...E > He is a UNIX C programmer, so his mindset is the less keystrokes to D > solution is the best. He thinks programs should be named after the? > person who wrote it. He refuses to learn java, says "C can do  > everything". >...  . I met him, but he was a she when I knew her :)  J After way to many of "I can do xyz with 14 keystrokes, how many lines doesL it take for you to do it on VMS?" I started just saying "Why would I want to do that on VMS?"   -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it  sub-contracts to.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:07:52 +0300 2 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?- Message-ID: <3E5C67C8.6040903@StarLet.SPB.RU>   A Any plans to improving RMS? In partuclary, remove using DLM when  % multistreaming mode is set for a FAB!      JF Mezei wrote: < > Has Digital/compaq/HP announced any plans to improve VMS ? > U > (I am not talking about that port to IA64, that is a no-value-added effort to VMS).  > O > I am talking about actual improvements to the OS and the utilities on it. Any K > plans to work on TPU ? And plans to work on MAIL ? Any plans on the TCPIP 
 > suite ?  > K > Is it now official that none of thsoe improvements would make it to VAX ?  >      --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+2               Mobile: +7 (812) 116-3222/NMT/IMT-MCB     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU0                  http://starlet.spb.ru/~laishev/   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 07:18:08 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-YUfkmfPl5x2t@localhost>   + On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 05:00:33 UTC, JF Mezei  ( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   > Rob Young wrote:G > >         That said, articles point out 10 Gbit is *projected* not to > > >         get cheap enough for 3 years, from that same post: > O > Will HP produce a Q-BUS  10 Gbit ethernet board for my all mighty Microvax II  > ?  :-) :-) :-)  E Just before Xmas I was informed that Vaxen can't  _really_ cope with  F 100Mb Ethernet. The intterupt rate is too fast for the CPU/Driver. It E just seems to work because of the retries. It strikes me as odd that  > you can attach 10mbyte/s (or higher) SCSI disks and get about C 100mbit/s throughput but not a network card. If the information is  - correct it does point to the driver, I guess.    --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 02:40:46 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?/ Message-ID: <3E5C6166.7B2E1BF4@vl.videotron.ca>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > Why % > should I bother with EVE and TPU?"    & Resistance is futile. you MUST comply.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:02:09 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602030702100001@user-uinj0ik.dialup.mindspring.com>  A In article <3E5C67C8.6040903@StarLet.SPB.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev"  <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> wrote:   B >Any plans to improving RMS? In partuclary, remove using DLM when & >multistreaming mode is set for a FAB!  E A short example illustrating the problem might be helpful here.  This E sounds vaguely like a performance problem I was working on recently.  7 There's a good chance RMS can already do what you want.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:12:53 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?0 Message-ID: <p337a.449$Xt4.234@news.cpqcorp.net>  > In article <b096a4ee.0302251945.472897c3@posting.google.com>, 0 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:   >When someone can ... show me a @ >way to do case-independent Find commands using uppercase search >strings....        G My TPU based editor, which I modestly call "CHARLIE-EDIT", can do this.      COMMANDS     SET   
     SEARCH  >         SEARCH {BEGIN|END|EXACT|GENERAL|PATTERN|PHRASE|STRING}  /             Controls various search parameters.   N             BEGINS/END causes a successful  search  to  position the curser atH             the beginning or at the end of the search pattern or string.  N             EXACT causes search to be case sensitive; GENERAL causes upper and6             lower case letters to be considered equal.  N             PATTERN sets searching  to  PATTERN  mode.  See the PATTERN-SEARCH,             help topic for more information.  N             PHRASE sets search to look for the specified phrase, even if it isC             spaced or punctuated differently, or if it spans lines.   4             STRING sets searching to it normal mode.       --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 07:08:50 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302260708.4b2e142d@posting.google.com>   \ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<25FEB200322100806@gerg.tamu.edu>...4 > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes...I > }Well, thanks, I'll just stick with EDT. When someone can do a good TPU B > }emulation of EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, and if someone is willing toH > }translate my 262-line EDT initialization file into TPU, and show me aB > }way to do case-independent Find commands using uppercase searchD > }strings, and maybe a few other things from my other posts, let meF > }know. I'll take another look at regular use of EVE/TPU then. But inI > }the meanwhile, I'll use EVE/TPU (or write some DCL) only on those rare & > }occasions when EDT doesn't suffice. > } < > }Also, I would have initially tried "tpu global substitute; > }group:comp.os.vms". Don't know how well that would work.  > } D > }> 	It really all comes down to search and replace and who does it
 > }> 	better.  > } I > }No, it's "I've already got a fine solution for search and replace. Why H > }should I bother with EVE and TPU?" And the answer given is "Well, youE > }can do a whole lot of work to make a whole lot of cool things that 8 > }you'll probably never need to use!" Yeah, yeah, yeah. > }  > }[...] > }> 				Rob > }  > }Disclaimer: JMHO  > }Alan E. Feldman > H > Did that 262 line EDT init file spring fully formed from your foreheadI > one afternoon, or did it take you some time to learn EDT well enough to  > produce such a thing?  > 0 > I bet it took you time. Quite a bit, probably.  B Carl, you actually made my point! Yes, it took a long time. But itD wasn't all at once. It evolved over years. And now the TPU advocatesB would have me duplicate all that work (actually, I bet it would beB twice as much work) so that I can have the same with TPU. But thisF time I'd have to do it all in one fell swoop! And, they say, I can fixA all the things I don't like about TPU. Yet more work. And I don't F think most of these things can be fixed anyway. So why the hell shouldE I switch? "You could write a TPU program!" they say. Fooey. For what, C to emulate only most of what I already have with EDT and to have to 4 put up with all I don't like about EVE and TPU? Why?  ? On the rare occasions where EDT does not suffice, then I'll use 2 EVE/TPU or write some DCL. What's wrong with that?  A I really get tired of people implying that EDT-ers are idiots for C sticking with EDT. You want to use TPU? Be my guest. I don't really E give a flying petunia. You want to know why I use EDT? I've told you. C If you don't like it, well, you can write a TPU program! I also get D tired of people offering donkey kong substitutes for SET NOTRUNCATE,F like JF's recent shift left/right suggestion. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.B I *already have* shift left and right with EDT, but I never use itF becasue SET NOTRUNCATE is so much better! I get tired of people sayingB "well just try this little script/program" and it's incomplete, orE doesn't work, and there's no documentation on how to make it work, itm? doesn't do quite what was promised, and I don't even know whichs: qualifier to use to run it. And I'm supposed to like this?  E And I really get tired of people saying "Well, you could just write a D TPU program!" Well, you could just dig a moat. (See my other post on that!)  E The original post of this subthread was something very close to "some A people say EDT is better ... What am I missing?" and I was simply F answering that. My EDT init file is something I would miss. "You couldE write a TPU program!" But with EDT I'm already done. For me, EDT *is*pE better in part because I would have to do a lot of work *all at once*Q? to get the same features from EVE/TPU. If someone isn't in thatlC situation, maybe they should use EVE and TPU. It doesn't bother me.s  H > As far as I can tell, your complaint is that EDT, which you have knownG > how to use quite well for quite a long time, is easier for you to use G > than EVE & TPU, which you have never learned how to use very well. Top? > this I say, "Well, duh!" This is not a surprising situation. r  E Well, duh, that's exactly what I've been trying to explain to the TPUUD advocates! It is *they* who want me to switch. It is *they* who haveF to make the case. And I claim that EDT is easier to use AND learn thanE TPU regardless. I didn't have nearly the number of headaches learning + EDT as I did when I *did* try to learn TPU.e   > It is justI > about always easier for someone to use something that they have learnedBJ > how to use that it is for them to use something that they havn't learned
 > how to use.r  C I never said or implied otherwise. However, let me add that I found D EDT much easier to learn (that's LEARN, not USE) than TPU. Of courseE what I already know is easier to USE. That's one of my main points inuD this subthread! If I already have something that's easy, you have to? make a good case for me to switch. And to date, no one has. ThesC original question was not "Which editor is better?" but instead was 7 "Why is anyone still using EDT?" That's very different.r  C Back in my graduate school years when I was first introduced to EVEsE and TPU, I thought I'd try to get a head start on everyone else. So IiF tried it. It was nothing but pain. I tried to modify it by writing TPUC programs, but it was a disaster. (This was before its EDT emulation @ was improved.) I would change some lines that were well into theD middle of the code and it would say "compilation aborted on line 1".D Yeah, that was fun. When I went to remote laboratories to do physicsE experiments, I couldn't get EVE to work there. So I fell back to EDT.MB Even in my own terminal room in school, I couldn't get EVE to workF when I connected to the VAX 11/780 in the computer science center (viaD SET HOST/DTE, IIRC) to access its attached "array processor". In allD these cases, EDT worked fine. But EVE failed. I found out much laterC that I had to set the terminal to 8bit or no8bit or whatever to getgD EVE to work in these situations. But not with EDT! No matter where IC went, EDT worked. EVE only worked on our own VAX 11/750. Now add toRD that all the other things I don't like about EVE and TPU and I think I've made my case.   > 
 > --- Carl   Disclaimer: JMNHSO Alan E. Feldmanc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:30:49 -0700c+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>e( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?' Message-ID: <3E5CDDA9.6010401@MMaz.com>f   Dave Weatherall wrote:  , >On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 05:00:33 UTC, JF Mezei ) ><jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:p >e >    >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>     >>F >>>        That said, articles point out 10 Gbit is *projected* not to= >>>        get cheap enough for 3 years, from that same post: 	 >>>      i >>>SO >>Will HP produce a Q-BUS  10 Gbit ethernet board for my all mighty Microvax II  >>?  :-) :-) :-) >>     >> > F >Just before Xmas I was informed that Vaxen can't  _really_ cope with G >100Mb Ethernet. The intterupt rate is too fast for the CPU/Driver. It pF >just seems to work because of the retries. It strikes me as odd that ? >you can attach 10mbyte/s (or higher) SCSI disks and get about oD >100mbit/s throughput but not a network card. If the information is . >correct it does point to the driver, I guess. >  i >cI I do not really understand this either.  I have to believe that hardware hI has nothing to do with this limit, but rather the device drivers written eF for the hardware.  Why do I say that?  Because it is my understanding D that even the VAX emulators cannot reliably support ethernet speeds H greater than 10Mb yet they can have VUP capabilities in the 60+ range.  D If it where just raw CPU horse power, you would conclude that 100Mb G wouldn't be an issue but the drivers must be flawed and unable to keep :B up with the interrupts generated, perhaps because of old hardware  designs and limitations...  E Can anyone from HP comment on this.  Is it in fact a problem that is  @ known about and will it be resolved, especially for us VAX uers?   Barry    -- m  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 07:41:59 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302260741.39dd3d34@posting.google.com>i  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5C48E8.17BFF2BA@vl.videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:I > > Above all, if you really can make TPU to EDT's SET NOTRUNCATE, pleaset > > share that secret with us. >  > [DO] DEFINE KEY # > Enter TPU command: SHIFT RIGHT 40w? > Press the key you want defined  (key sequence of your choice)n >  > [DO] DEFINE KEYd" > Enter TPU command: SHIFT LEFT 40> > Press the key you want defined (key sequence of your choice) > N > This shifts the window onto long records while keeping each long line as one > long line.  ? Sorry, but this is a pretty poor workaround for SET NOTRUNCATE. D Besides, I *already have* shift left and right with EDT, but I neverE use it because SET NOTRUNCATE is so much better! With SET NOTRUNCATE,,E I can simply press "next screen" repeatedly and read everything. WitheF shifting, I have to keep going left, right, left, right for each line.4 Sorry, but shift left and right just doesn't cut it.  C There was a time when I needed to look at something in a low columnp@ and high column on sequential lines in a file whose records wereE longer than 255 characters. So I couldn't use EDT. But SET NOTRUNCATEsE would have made this a breeze. Instead, I had to struggle with clumsy D workarounds. SHIFT LEFT and RIGHT really wasn't very helpful in thatB case. I don't remember the exact circumsatances, but I do remember/ that SET NOTRUNCATE would have been a blessing.   J > > Next I'd like to do case-independent Finds with uppercase-typed search > > strings, > 0 > [DO] HELP ---> look into section on SEARCHES.     B I did that and it tells me that I can't do what I want. Here, I'll make it explicit:,  
 I want to do:m  	 Gold-PF3 r Forward Find: STRING  E and have it find all occurrences of regardless of the cases of any of B its letters. I want it to Find the strings string, sTRING, String,B STRING, etc. But the help you refer me to tells me that I can't do that. I have to instead do   Gold-PF3 Forward Find: string  = but as I already explained, I like to write DCL statements ineE uppercase. So I'm usually in UPPERCASE, and I always forget to switchT? to lowercase when I need to do a Find. No sir, I don't like it..> Kapeesh? And I also don't like it telling me "Found in reverseF direction, go there?" Please, I don't need to be treated like an idiot by the editor.  E > > And just how do you display key definitions that were entered viai
 > > LEARN? > > > In what context do you want to display the learn sequences ?  ; In EDT I can interactively define a key. For example, I canl> interactively (in full screen mode) define Control/N to be theF sequence down, down, down, over one char. Later, I can go to line mode and do   *SHOW KEY CONT N	 +V+V+V+C.e *.  D and it shows me the key definition in Nokeypad commands. The commandD +V is down one, and +C is move right one character. Pretty cool, eh?   Disclaimer: JMNHSO Alan E. Feldmano   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 10:01:52 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)6( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <rSfZ7h+fUpSX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <3E5CDDA9.6010401@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:b  K > I do not really understand this either.  I have to believe that hardware  K > has nothing to do with this limit, but rather the device drivers written  H > for the hardware.  Why do I say that?  Because it is my understanding F > that even the VAX emulators cannot reliably support ethernet speeds J > greater than 10Mb yet they can have VUP capabilities in the 60+ range.    ? What is the VAX emulation configuration that produces 60 VUPs ?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:22:45 -0700a+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>n( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?% Message-ID: <3E5CE9D5.80601@MMaz.com>m   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  V >In article <3E5CDDA9.6010401@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes: >e >    >sK >>I do not really understand this either.  I have to believe that hardware 0K >>has nothing to do with this limit, but rather the device drivers written :H >>for the hardware.  Why do I say that?  Because it is my understanding F >>that even the VAX emulators cannot reliably support ethernet speeds J >>greater than 10Mb yet they can have VUP capabilities in the 60+ range.   >>     >> > @ >What is the VAX emulation configuration that produces 60 VUPs ? >  s > D Dual AMD 2600+ MP...  Talk to SRI, they have been doing some rather  impressive marvels...i   Barrye     -- n  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 08:28:47 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0302260828.1419f786@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5C170A.30A671EA@vl.videotron.ca>...o > Keith Parris wrote:AA > > VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows 3 > > 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005.  > J > Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a fasterK > ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that it N > requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is itK > just a faster ethernet with tweaking of exsiting drivers to change timingR > information ?i  A That statement was in response to the contention that "there's no2B indication of any *specific* VMS-related development planned afterF early 2005" in the VMS Roadmap.  This was an example of a specific VMS, feature planned for later than 'early 2005'.  > The introduction date in the roadmap is presumably based on anE estimate of when this new technology will be close enough to reaching6F the mainstream (enough critical mass to predict eventual acceptance in@ the wider markeplace, stable and mature enough to work properly,B enough vendors for interoperability to be demonstrated, and enoughE competition to ensure it will reach a price level appropriate for itsi> capabilities) and thus anticipated to be in demand soon by VMS
 customers.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 10:34:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <QroBuLDMJcv4@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  S In article <3E5CE9D5.80601@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:e > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > W >>In article <3E5CDDA9.6010401@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:e >> >>   >>L >>>I do not really understand this either.  I have to believe that hardware L >>>has nothing to do with this limit, but rather the device drivers written I >>>for the hardware.  Why do I say that?  Because it is my understanding nG >>>that even the VAX emulators cannot reliably support ethernet speeds cK >>>greater than 10Mb yet they can have VUP capabilities in the 60+ range.    >>>    e >>>o >>A >>What is the VAX emulation configuration that produces 60 VUPs ?h >>   >> > Dual AMD 2600+ MP...  & Does it emulate a dual processor VAX ?  0 > Talk to SRI, they have been doing some rather  > impressive marvels...u  E My question is only based on curiosity, and their "prices are secret"_F policy, imposed even on resellers, tells me they are not interested in satisfying the merely curious.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:49:05 +0000 7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>d( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?H Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015292EA@reaes2.sema.co.uk>  C My apologies. I sent this with the wrong subject line before. I hadrB not kept any of the original emails so I had to do a google searchE I looked up 'Feldman' and '=paste', and got the wrong subject thread.s< Here is the same contribution with the correct subject line.    D I normally try to avoid getting involved in these periodic outburstsD of editor-jihad, (as I said in another thread, people like what theyE like and you ain't gonna change them). but I noticed in this one thatdD Alan asked a question here that nobody has answered. And it is quiteD easy. I don't know if the the question was a real desire to know, orC more flame-bait (it just gets impossible to tell when people get soyB passionate), so I'll just treat it naively as a simple request for information, and reply to it.   + - And I hope it doesn't rekindle the fire!    0  Alan E. Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote:   >[loads deleted..]G >In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYPy% >=PASTE, then *C to get back to work.e >aE >In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, moveoF >the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, pressG >Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: showpD >buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there an! >eaiser way?  [.. more deleted..]e  C Yes there is a much easier way. the command is WRITE_FILE. To write0E out the contents of the paste buffer to 'foo.bar' say, withour moving:C buffers, changing the cursor position, the window or anything is tot DO/ Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(PASTE_BUFFER,"FOO.BAR")   C In fact, if you're just trying to write out a part of a file in theED midst of an edit, you don't even need to put it in the paste buffer.C You can just select the range, then without the paste sequence (thesD kp6 + gold kp6) you can write it straight out from the selected area with the command DO/ Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")-  E This can be useful if it is a huge range, and you don't want to wasteC. time with an unnecessary cut and re-paste job.  E HTH. I guess it is unlikely to help you often, but on those occasions C when you are forced into using TPU it is there for you. In any case4D it will help other readers of the newsgroup who weren't aware of it.   Cheers, John    9 _________________________________________________________ B This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of   SchlumbergerSema.6H If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have receivedK this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing,  0 or copying of this email is strictly prohibited.  : If you have received this email in error please notify the? SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.=9 _________________________________________________________C   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:04:03 -0500t& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?8 Message-ID: <68vp5vsfv5m10nccu9hrtavivl1tnth37q@4ax.com>  N On 26 Feb 2003 07:08:50 -0800, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:  @ >On the rare occasions where EDT does not suffice, then I'll use3 >EVE/TPU or write some DCL. What's wrong with that?   O Alan, I agree with many of the specific things you mention, such as lack of SETkP NOTRUNCATE -- in fact, having almost forgotten about this feature of EDT, I wentN back to something I did last week with TPU where I found myself going left andO right to look at long records, and now I remember how nice that feature is whenl you need it!  J I personally avoided TPU until an EDT keypad emulation was provided by theK vendor. Prior to that, folks kept telling me to use it but without a keypad/O style I was familiar with I wasn't willing to do it, and I didn't like carryingo@ around the "baggage" of the EVEPLUS (I think?) keypad emulation.  O When the EDT-style kaypad was introduced, I took another look and found that -- M with a fairly simple initialization file -- I could use 95% of what I used intO EDT without having to think twice about it. The two features which I found most P atractive about TPU, and which keep me with it today, are (1) support for largerM terminal windows, and (2) split-screen editing. IN fact, I would say that (2)rO without (1) would be awkward. But, I operate with a standard 35-line window and.O find that I can be productive working with two files at once in a split screen;oP some of my associates use larger windows, up to 70 lines for one guy I know. But2 for me, 35 lines is what I've found to be optimal.  L Your note has reminded me that there are cases when I will prefer to use EDTN (again), especially in dealing with very long files; working on a non-terminalN window, e.g. OPA0 in MINimum boot; and handling files with records longer than( 132 columns. Those all make sense to me.  P It would seem to me that a person's preference for one over the other might wellP depend on what he or she works with most often. For me, the "special cases" thatP EDT handles best come up infrequently, while every day, multiple times, I have aK need to work with two or more files at once, and being able to display them0O simultaneously in a large window is extremelt useful. So, for everyday editing, P I'll stick with TPU, and use EDT (or TECO, Larry, I still have a few cases where* that works best!) when it is most helpful.  5 For info, my small init file with which I started is:n   ! Minimal EVE$INIT.EVE set keypad edt set cursor bound tpu set(mouse,off) set noexit attribute check  O I "carry" a copy of this with me to any new system I work on, even temporarily, N in performing my support job. In the years since I've been using TPU I've alsoA develped a few things I find very useful into a TPU command file,tM TPU$COMMAND.TPU, which I put on the systems which are my "home systems". I'veuN limited it to the most essential stuff for my purposes. I have avoided sectionN files and don't believe, in general, that most users should fool with one. ForL information, here are some of the generally handy functions I have in my TPUK command file (names only). Note that one of the things I do is overload thetD SHIFT-KP8 key, disabling the Fill function, because I too many times7 accidentally "filled" a DCL procedure I was working on.    procedure toggle_width%     ! Toggle width between 80 and 132a   procedure eve_mouse_on   procedure eve_mouse_offR   procedure toggle_eve_mouse+     ! Toggle between mouse on and mouse off.  L ! FIX_CRLFS.TPU - Routine to turn CRLFs into line breaks and remove leading  !       CRs and trailing CRLFs !  procedure eve_fix_crlfso   procedure eve_remove_nulls  " procedure eve_flag_selected_regionC !* adds "flag_string" to beginning of each line in selected region.B  $ procedure eve_unflag_selected_region  A flag_string := ".";     !* Define string to use for "flag/unflag"y eve_set_keypad_edt;n eve_set_cursor_bound;i eve_set_noexit_attribute_check;  eve_set_scroll_margins(2,2); eve_mouse_off;D define_key('copy_text("$!             . ")',key_name('C',shift_key),.         'EVE INSERT_COMMENT','eve$user_keys');I define_key('copy_text("c     . ")',key_name('F',ctrl_modified,shift_key), 6         'EVS INSERT_FORTRAN_COMMENT','eve$user_keys');8 define_key('eve_fill_paragraph',key_name('F',shift_key),.         'EVE FILL_PARAGRAPH','eve$user_keys');5 define_key('eve_next_buffer',key_name('N',shift_key), +         'EVE NEXT_BUFFER','eve$user_keys');04 define_key('eve_one_window',key_name('1',shift_key),*         'EVE ONE_WINDOW','eve$user_keys');5 define_key('eve_two_windows',key_name('2',shift_key), +         'EVE TWO_WINDOWS','eve$user_keys');gE define_key('message("KP8 (FILL) disabled!")',key_name(kp8,shift_key),a,         'EVE NO_OPERATION','eve$user_keys');6 define_key('toggle_eve_mouse',key_name('M',shift_key),(         'Toggle Mouse','eve$user_keys');2 define_key('toggle_width',key_name('W',shift_key),(         'Toggle Width','eve$user_keys');' eve$add_word_separators("()[]{}#,;:."); I -------------------------------------------------------------------------KI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comtI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------,   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 12:23:40 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?3 Message-ID: <GYfl9WPUe6XC@eisner.encompasserve.org>I   In article <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015292EA@reaes2.sema.co.uk>, "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> writes:     >>[loads deleted..] H >>In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYP& >>=PASTE, then *C to get back to work. >>F >>In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, moveG >>the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, presseH >>Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: showE >>buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there an " >>eaiser way?  [.. more deleted..] > E > Yes there is a much easier way. the command is WRITE_FILE. To writebG > out the contents of the paste buffer to 'foo.bar' say, withour movingnE > buffers, changing the cursor position, the window or anything is tol > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(PASTE_BUFFER,"FOO.BAR")  > E > In fact, if you're just trying to write out a part of a file in thesF > midst of an edit, you don't even need to put it in the paste buffer.E > You can just select the range, then without the paste sequence (thedF > kp6 + gold kp6) you can write it straight out from the selected area > with the command > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")a > G > This can be useful if it is a huge range, and you don't want to wastet0 > time with an unnecessary cut and re-paste job. > G > HTH. I guess it is unlikely to help you often, but on those occasionsiE > when you are forced into using TPU it is there for you. In any casevF > it will help other readers of the newsgroup who weren't aware of it. >    Alan,o  : 	Also you may wish to use this TPU procedure as it saves a< 	bunch of typing , does checking, cleanup etc.  It is one of 	Chris Yoder's extensions.  . procedure eve_write_selected (write_file_name)  7 local   this_position,          ! save current position ?         write_file_name_copy,   ! local copy of write_file_namet4         write_range;            ! range to write out  *   write_file_name_copy := write_file_name;     if eve$x_trimming then%     eve$trim_buffer (current_buffer);r   endif;  $   if eve$x_select_position <> 0 thenH     if get_info (eve$x_select_position, "buffer") <> current_buffer then6       message ("Select marker not in current buffer");
       return;m
     endif;  !     this_position := mark (none);r      write_range := select_range;   else#     message ('No range selected!');a     return (0);    endif;  .   if (length (write_file_name_copy) <= 0) thenJ     write_file_name_copy := read_line ('File name for selected region: ');0     if (length (write_file_name_copy) <= 0) then)       message ('No file name provided.');o
       return; 
     endif;   endif;  0   write_file (write_range,write_file_name_copy);     eve$x_select_position := 0;t   position (this_position);2  
 endprocedure;>     	Typical usage:g     DO   Command: wr sel a.a>  7 	Writes the selected region out to a file called "a.a".t   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 13:56:49 GMT! From: ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003)-3 Subject: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediatelyr9 Message-ID: <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>t   HI All,v  O I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help intH a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info.   Mike   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:17:21 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediatelyh6 Message-ID: <b3ipah$1n8ga2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  9 In article <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>,3$ 	ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003) writes:	 > HI All,^ > Q > I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help in.J > a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info. >   = PA is a pretty big state.  I sure wouldn't want to commute to ? Pittsburgh from here.  Think you could narrow it down a little?B   bill   -- AJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 10:36:30 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediatelyr3 Message-ID: <QhI5lrIxpq0+@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  a In article <b3ipah$1n8ga2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:@; > In article <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>,>& > 	ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003) writes:
 >> HI All, >> mR >> I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help inK >> a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info.t >> r > ? > PA is a pretty big state.  I sure wouldn't want to commute tohA > Pittsburgh from here.  Think you could narrow it down a little?r  @ And does VMS/AS400 mean they want to convert from VMS to AS400 ?A This newsgroup is divided into people who would not care for that A sort of a project and those who would jump at the chance to provet that "VMS is dead".d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:30:28 -0800-1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com>R Subject: VMSTAR questionP Message-ID: <025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C23163A15@zny_exchange1.maintech1.com>  1 I'm hoping someone can help us out with this one.E  ; We have to supply data to one of our customers using TAR.  d5 So we have installed VMSTAR and it is VMS TAR V3.3-4. " When I give the following command:  : tar -cwvf output.tar PB12_020301_01R_CAP_XXXX_LD_0001.CAD   G the program just loops constantly repeating the input filename over and. over.2  J When I kill this run, and look at the tar file using DUMP, it appears thatJ header information for the data file is written over and over again.  None2 of the input file's data is found in the TAR file.  1 This is running on an ES45 running OpenVMS 7.3-1.y   Has anyone else seen this?   TIA    Mike Farrell   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:47:05 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: VMSTAR question+ Message-ID: <b3iuir$rhm@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>a  < "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> wrote in messageJ news:025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C23163A15@zny_exchange1.maintech1.com...   > Has anyone else seen this?   Only a few weeks ago: 9 http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&th=1394dc5a44628d9af   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 15:43:45 +0100( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>G Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?e0 Message-ID: <cs9fzqb2jby.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>  % Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:o   > Alan E. Feldman wrote:G > > A Unix Admin co-worker asked me what the big deal was about portingtI > > VMS to Itanium. He says that NetBSD has been ported to numerous chips0J > > and that it's no big deal. I told him that I didn't really know. WouldI > > any of the chip experts reading this care to comment? What is it that7 > > makes this port difficult? > 0 > VMS was never intended for multi-platform and:7 >    - uses several constructs which was present in the = >      original VAX hardware and need to be emulated on otherp >      architectures< >    - VMS still has a lot of Macro-32 and Bliss code (while! >      NetBSD is probably 100% C)a  C This last point is interesting. Is this also true of the IA64 port?e Amazing.   /andreas   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 10:00:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sG Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?X3 Message-ID: <MH42UWo1HN6K@eisner.encompasserve.org>5  [ In article <cs9fzqb2jby.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes:t  = >>    - VMS still has a lot of Macro-32 and Bliss code (while." >>      NetBSD is probably 100% C) > E > This last point is interesting. Is this also true of the IA64 port?0  B Ignoring the parenthetical, of course it is true.  VMS quality hasA been honed over 25 years, and one of the worst things that can be7C done for quality is to gratuitously rewrite something from scratch.@  A Sometimes there are sound reasons for a rewrite, such as when thes? Queue Manager was rewritten with more features in V3.0 and whenuH it was rewritten again to use a log-structured file approach (in V5.5?).  G But many people can still remember the many new defects introduced when ) VMS Mail was rewritten from Bliss into C.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:31:07 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)G Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult? 6 Message-ID: <b3iq4a$1n8ga2$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ) In article <3E57CB97.7000302@vajhoej.dk>,-& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > < >    - VMS still has a lot of Macro-32 and Bliss code (while! >      NetBSD is probably 100% C)s  s; And with this one statement the whole argument falls apart.m  @ Net BSD is not 100% C.  There are still assembler modules in all> of the architectures I looked at.  And, keeping it tied to the@ VMS thread, these included VAX, Alpha, and x86_64.  There was no tree for the IA64.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:34:12 -0500 & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>G Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?I0 Message-ID: <0X67a.472$MK4.424@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:+ > In article <3E57CB97.7000302@vajhoej.dk>,e( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > < >>   - VMS still has a lot of Macro-32 and Bliss code (while! >>     NetBSD is probably 100% C)t >  >  f= > And with this one statement the whole argument falls apart.p > B > Net BSD is not 100% C.  There are still assembler modules in all@ > of the architectures I looked at.  And, keeping it tied to theB > VMS thread, these included VAX, Alpha, and x86_64.  There was no > tree for the IA64. >  > bill >   E But that assembler code is considered unique to each target.  If you .I want to port NetBSD to IA64, you know up front you have to rewrite those rI functions in Itanium assembly.  Arne's point is that NetBSD doesn't have  I any assembly code that is expects to work across multiple architectures. AC   OpenVMS' continued usage of Macro-32 source code across multiple pE architectures adds another level of complexity that probably doesn't  # exist in porting NetBSD and others.    -- r John Reagan ' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leadern Hewlett-Packard Companyr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:56:57 +0000t- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>s: Subject: Re: Wow - OpenVMS Job Advert in UK Computer Press/ Message-ID: <v5p7c8st7ssab9@corp.supernews.com>    Gerald Marsh wrote:    > Is this a sign?h >yG > Leica Microsystems have advertised for a OpenVMS Software Engineer innG > the last two weeks' Computer Weekly. This is the first OpenVMS advertu% > I've seen in a hell of a long time.    :-)i  C It's the job they even advertised in our local freebie, the Saffronr& Walden Weekly News ca. 3 weeks ago !!!  @ The position is in Cambridge, which would have been nice for me.  	 Roy Omondt Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 09:21:53 -0800+ From: spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready)eK Subject: [NYMLUG] NYC Meeting on 3/6/2003, "Heterogeneous Backup Solutions"u= Message-ID: <ffd79a6c.0302260921.3b80ae6c@posting.google.com>a  A Please join us for the next NY Metro Local Users Group meeting.  i= Note: you must RSVP in advance for entrance to the building. n    "Heterogeneous Backup Solutions"   Thursday, March 6th, 2003.
 4:30-7 PM  HP Offices  . 2 Penn Plaza 8th Floor ( 7th Ave and 32nd St)   9 4:30 - 5:00     Check in and old-style DECUS Networking. ,/ 5:00 - 5:10     Welcome and announcements, HP. w= 5:10 - 5:15     Gary McCready: LUG and Encompass Business andi
 Announcements2E 5:15 - 5:30     HP Product Update   John Dunnder  "HP Backup Solutione	 Hardware" B 5:30 - 7:00     Shaun Ellis, Legato "Case Study of a Heterogeneous Backup Solution"  F This presentation will cover the implementation of a large centralizedF backup solution managed by a central server. The presentation has beenD updated to take advantage of current technologies that have appeared. in the market since the actual implementation.  F Shaun Ellis is the product manager of the new Legato NetWorker OpenVMSC client and Management products for NetWorker. He was the architect,nF main implementer and project manager of  the presented solution. Prior@ to Legato, he worked for Digital and Compaq for nearly 15 years,D delivering consulting for major customers on data center automation.  A For more information on the latest in Legato VMS products, pleased visith  l http://portal1.legato.com/corporate_info/pressroom/press.cfm?oid=0006E61D-C306-1D90-886280CFAB3DFFFF&lang=en  @ To RSVP: send email to  nicolette.cicatelli@hp.com, Subject LUG   E You will be met by a HP employee at the security desk at the entranceeE to the building (now at the 7th Avenue side). Should you arrive late,o@ please call the HP reception desk at 212-856-2000 for an escort.A Please RSVP and plan to arrive before 5:15 pm as there is limited- seating available.  $ HP will provide light refreshments.   E For further information on the group you may contact Gary McCready atl( NYMLUG (at)McCready.com or 201-556-3359.  E Apologies are in order if you have received multiple versions of thiswD message. Feel free to forward this message to others who may have anD interest in attending - you do not have to be an Encompass member to attend.m  D If you did not receive an "original" version of this message, please? join our mailing list at  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/u  a* Next meeting: Storage over IP, April 14th.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:32:54 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>y2 Subject: [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP' Message-ID: <3E5CDE26.3050506@MMaz.com>-  I A good summarization of reasons not to use XP, if you are in a shop that m% is fighting these types of battles...w   Barryi  * http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm   -- @  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028t   ------------------------------   Date: 26 FEB 2003 17:33:20 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)6 Subject: Re: [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP6 Message-ID: <26FEB03.17332043@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  C In a previous article, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> wrote:   K ->A good summarization of reasons not to use XP, if you are in a shop that t' ->is fighting these types of battles...  -> c, ->http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm  E Another article along those lines but far more encompassing with many@ good references is:   -   <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html>t  D Opinionated to be sure. This one steps back a bit farther and coversE more general IT issues such as employment then describes "Microsoft'ssF Road Ahead" in great detail. A long read but well worth it. I urge allF of you to at least read the Microsoft section - especially about .NET.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 4 --             karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.112 ************************