1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 27 Feb 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 113       Contents:1 Re: About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press"... ; Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data . Re: Breaking out too many times causes a crash* Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS? Re: Data in shareable image P Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo9 Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration.... < Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory  Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE Re: Frequent_job.log;327675 Re: Further Question: retrieve integer from longword. ( Re: How do I join the domain with Samba?4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.4 Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown.' Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results P Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset   across* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE* Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGEH Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopolyB Re: Image restore of "old" saveset fails to restore VMS$COMMON.DIR: Re: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests( Re: Is there a way to FTP a locked file?5 Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86" / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! / Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS! B Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600K Re: Mis-set Terminal Types (was: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE ( Re: Need help passing text to executable( Re: Need help passing text to executable! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the ! Re: Official OpenVMS name for the P Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE?= releases	leases le1 PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing 5 Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing 5 Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing ! Re: Pine Email Problem on OpenVMS  Re: Problem booting 4000/90 2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]2 Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE]? Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language? ? Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language? - Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword. - Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword. ) Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR 9 Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?) 9 Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?) 9 Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?)  Re: SYSUAF Proxy$ Re: TCPIP and network loss detection. Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface? Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: The End of OpenVMS Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?  Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ? . Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately. Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately VMS Backup solutions Re:  VMS Backup solutions  Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: VMS Backup solutions Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5  Re: Volume set across RAID5 > Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?  XFC OVMS 7.3  + ES-40 (10GB RAM)- Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ? - Re: [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:13:31 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: About VMS on Itanium in the French "Press".../ Message-ID: <3E5D11DB.F1F61EDF@vl.videotron.ca>   B > "Philippe Bocher" <philippe.bocher@euriware.fr> wrote in message > >     In french : ' > >     http://minilien.com/?GNoFDdjPyJ   J This page consistently crashes netscape on a mac, even with javascript and9 java disabled. I'll have to try lynx or mosaic on my vax.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:08:31 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>D Subject: Re: Alignment/padding requirements for shareable image data/ Message-ID: <3E5D10A5.EB9AFDB5@vl.videotron.ca>    Johan Nilsson wrote:H > I actually think I know what the problem is, I just don't feel that itC > _should_ be this way - could it be some kind of compiler / linker H > incompatility stuff or possibly some problems with the linker switches  M Seems to be a compiler problem with the linker telling you about the problem. N It isn't a question of your structure being the same size, but also a quetsionN of structure members inside teh structure being in the same relative position.4 (I included the doc on the #pragma directive below).  K Note the very last paragraph that discusses member alignmenty definition in 
 header files.   .  5.4.5  #pragma [no]member_alignment Directive:   By default, DEC C for OpenVMS VAX systems does not align=   structure members on natural boundaries; they are stored on <   byte boundaries (with the exception of bit-field members).  6   By default, DEC C for OpenVMS AXP systems does align*   structure members on natural boundaries.  ;   The#pragma member_alignment preprocessor directive can be <   used to force natural-boundary alignment of structure mem-;   bers. The#pragmanomember_alignment preprocessor directive /   restores byte-alignment of structure members.   (   This pragma has the following formats:     #pragma member_alignment   #pragma member_alignment save "   #pragma member_alignment restore-   #pragma nomember_alignment [base_alignment]   :   When#pragma member_alignment is used, the compiler align;   structure members on the next boundary appropriate to the =   type of the member, rather than on the next byte. For exam- ?   ple, along variable is aligned on the next longword boundary; 7   ashort variable is aligned on the next word boundary.   !   Consider the following example:      #pragma nomember_alignment     struct x {                char c;                int b;                 };      #pragma member_alignment     struct y {<               char c;        /*3 bytes of filler follow c */               int b;               };  	   main ()      { @            printf( "The sizeof y is: %d\n", sizeof (struct y) );@            printf( "The sizeof x is: %d\n", sizeof (struct x) );   }   8   When this example is executed, it shows the difference3 between #pragma member_alignment and #pragma nomem-    ber_alignment.  6   Once used, themember_alignment pragma remains in ef-=   fect until thenomember_alignment pragma is encountered; the    reverse is also true.   <   The optional base_alignment parameter can be used to spec-9   ify the base-alignment of the structure. Use one of the ,   following keywords for the base_alignment:        byte (1 byte)         word (2 bytes)        longword (4 bytes)        quadword (8 bytes)        octaword (16 bytes)   4   The #pragma member_alignment save and #pragma mem-:   ber_alignment restore directives can be used to save the9   current state of themember_alignment and to restore the =   previous state, respectively. This feature is necessary for ;  writing header files that requiremember_alignment ornomem- ?   ber_alignment, or that require inclusion in amember_alignment    that is already set.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:54:36 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 7 Subject: Re: Breaking out too many times causes a crash 0 Message-ID: <wIa7a.509$p45.108@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <fbcf38dc.0302191439.39ed4cc5@posting.google.com>, rcbryan@hotmail.com (RC Bryan) writes:C :We were having a problem with one of our applications where if the . :customer broke out in the middle of things...     [via CTRL/Y, I assume]  E :I have since checked other systems and it happens on everything from  :V7.1 to V7.3-1. :  :Comment anybody?   F   This error looks relatively similar to two (different) problems that>   were fixed via ECO kits.  I'd start with the following kits:       VMS731_SYS-V0200     VMS731_DCL-V0200  E   Also, images that use DECthreads and threading must be rundown; I'd    not attempt a restart.  2   And I'd apply all mandatory ECO kits, of course.  I   If you have current ECOs loaded, I'd encourage a formal report of this.   H   My usual preference is to field the CTRL/Y within the application, andH   to reach a consistent state before responding to the CTRL/Y interrupt.  I   The smaller and more concise the reproducer you can provide, the better 0   and quicker this can be debugged and resolved.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:43:36 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org3 Subject: Re: Commodity PCI NIC cards for Alpha VMS? ) Message-ID: <03022614433632@antinode.org>   G    The original question may have expired, but just in case it might be ( useful, I write to report the following.  G    One of the local junk stores has a small pile of Compaq "NETELLIGENT F 10/100 TX PCI Intel UTP Controller" cards, which use an Intel SB82558BG chip (and little else).  I got some for a friend with Wintel boxes, but = just as a quick test, I plopped one into an AlpSta 200 4/233.   G    As the card is a few years newer than the system, it was not amazing H that the SRM console SHOW DEVICE did not show it, but simple 10MHz testsE suggest that VMS V7.2-1 likes it ("EIA0"), as SYS$CONFIG.DAT suggests E that it might.  (The incredible-bargain 100MHz switch is still in the  mail, but what could go wrong?)   (    Tru64 V5.1A seems to like "ee0", too.  F    Some generic junk works better than other generic junk, of course. C While VMS seems to tolerate an SGI-labeled Qlogic SCSI card (which, C except for the labels, looks just like a KZPBA-CX), that card sends  Tru64 into a loop.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:10:43 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) $ Subject: Re: Data in shareable image/ Message-ID: <DXa7a.512$p45.41@news.cpqcorp.net>   c In article <3e54bf02$1_7@news.teranews.com>, "Johan Nilsson" <johan.nilsson@esrange.ssc.se> writes:   I :I'll try to give a brief explanation of my problem. I've understood that L :using a shareable image for sharing data/communicating between processes isG :considered a bad idea in general, but this is an issue of updates to a L :legacy system (which pretty much rules out using any other approach for the
 :time being).   E   Legacy system or not, the use of commons from within an application =   is going to be a continual source of maintenance headaches.   M :I have a problem sharing data between processes through a shareable image on K :an Alpha OpenVMS system. The data is declared as a C struct, linked into a I :shareable image and installed. When I try to include the definition from J :another C program, I get an error indicating that the size of the data inD :the shareable image is 956, while the program expects it to be 960.  A   I would use SDL for the data structure definitions, personally.   C   The actual size must be in pages (8192 bytes), as that is how the A   mapping works -- other integer multiples are also possible, and @   well-written programs would account for the current page size.  C   Take a look around at the PSECT_ATTR and SOLITARY keywords in the D   LINKER options file, if you really want to continue down this pathD   in the face of the maintenance problems you will likely encounter.  C   I would guess that this is a result of the data structure padding G   as described in the FAQ, or this results from differing granularities B   in the allocation (see the PSECT_ATTR stuff in the LINKER).  ButC   again, I really have been badly burned by commons over the years. A   (They're definitely inviting, but the position-dependent nature B   of the structures often causes maintenance troubles after time.)  I :So, am I correct in my assumption here? If so, is there any way avoiding 8 :this without resorting to manual padding of the struct?  F   Again, you will be fixing this stuff with some regularity as OpenVMSD   and the application are upgraded -- applications using COMMONs are   commonly relinked.  H   For information on shareable images, see the shareable image cookbook.  B   For information on my prefered and position-independent approachB   and programming tips, please see Ask The Wizard topics includingC   (2486) and (1661).  For shared-memory considerations, see (2681), C   (6984) and (7383).  Also see the top level of the Ask The Wizards D   area for relevent information; in the top-level sections entitled:  ,     global sections (how to create and use.)8     shareable images (cookbook approach to creating one)  A   Yes, I have some definite opinions within this particular area.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:55:34 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: ECC (was IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM  monopo 8 Message-ID: <i2aq5vo8ack1e9p4420tv4aemo08j8ojel@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:52:55 +0000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy . <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:   >  > 
 >jlsue wrote: : >> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:06:47 -0000, "Helmut P. Einfalt"" >> <hp.einfalt@t-online.de> wrote: >>   >>  5 >>>>Always cracks me up the way these kids talk about ? >>>>one machine which has 2% better performance than another...  >>> H >>>...and bear in mind that it is *benchmark* perfomance more often than
 >>>not...! >>>  >>   >>  H >> Oh, but we have it on top authority in here that benchmarks are *the*) >> most important measure of performance.  >>   > < >Depends what kind of benchmark. But lets face it benchmarks@ >have to be better than hand wavey "in my experience" statements% >unsupported by any other collateral.  > : >Now who could I be refering to with the hand wavey "in my >experience" quote, I wonder.  >   D When I recommend purchases, benchmarking their actual application isA what I recommend if they need to manage their risks.  Just like I ? recommend piloting any design consideration before putting into E production.  Not all customers take us up on the benchmarking option, B however.  Sometimes it's just too time consuming and can be a real) sink-hole on their own limited resources.   C But my position remains fairly consistent on this.  I fact, I don't B think I've *ever* quoted benchmarks to a customer, or even in this: forum.  I've worked on the "receiving" end of that kind ofD marketeering, and it's not fun.  Because of that, I try to avoid it.  D On the other hand, there are folks in here who change their positionF whenever it suits their fud purposes ("Benchmarks prove this system isC faster"... No, wait....  "Benchmarks are useless for proving how an ) application will perform".... No wait...)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:36:15 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)B Subject: Re: Entering into the world of OpenVMS administration....5 Message-ID: <jYd7a.120184$Rb4.1578183@news.chello.at>   h In article <AXL6a.259192$be.241833@rwcrnsc53>, brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton) writes:k >In article <1b0eb888.0302250711.5eb9d2d8@posting.google.com>, d_cymbal@hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) writes: D >>I got my OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX Hobbyist CD yesterday in the mail was8 >>able to get it installed and running on simh.  Hurrah! >>H >>The bitter reality has now set in that in my years of utilizing VMS atG >>the university, I was just a plain-old-user and I never had to act in & >>any sort of administrative capacity. >>D >>I have downloaded a bunch of the openvms doc files which I will be< >>digging into as time permits, but I wonder is there a niceF >>synopsis/tutorial of "what you need to know now for new admins" that$ >>summarizes things at a high level? > L >This question has been asked before in this newsgroup.  You might find this >tutorial interesting: > 1 >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/pc/welcome.htm   - Take this course with a little grain of salt. C I once did this course and found about 20 errors/annoynances in it. @ (like DISMOUNT disk:label) Maybe it is fixed now, but I doubt...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:54:12 GMT 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)E Subject: Re: External Authentication and Windows2000 Active Directory 5 Message-ID: <oAb7a.118334$Rb4.1563984@news.chello.at>   d In article <a98cd882.0302250221.a4f78ef@posting.google.com>, Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) writes:E >Is anyone using External Authentication from OpenVMS V7.3 / Advanced F >Server V7.3 to a Windows2000 Active Directory domain? Advanced ServerD >has it's own domain and has a /TRUSTED relation with the AD domain.   Sorry, currently no.7 But, why do you run it as a separate (trusted) domain ? F Do you know, that it is now possible to use PW/AS as a member server ?1 Do you use the PWRK$ACME_DEFAULT_DOMAIN logical ?  What does EA debug tell ?   6 	SYS$SINGLE_SIGNON       3               !Local+ExternA 	SYS$SINGLE_SIGNON       80000003        !Local+Extern+OpcomDebug   D >I think I have set everything according to the documentation, but I9 >keep getting "%LOGIN-F-NOSUCHUSER, no such user" errors.   & Do you have explicit HOSTMAPs set up ?A Is the PWRK$GUEST correctly defined ? I had some funnies with it.   ; >It does work when I try it with another OpenVMS/AS domain.   5 More infos please ? How is the other domain related ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:52:16 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ) Subject: Re: Fix for EDT emulation in EVE ' Message-ID: <3E5D8B70.19B901F8@fsi.net>    "POWERS, John" wrote:  > F > I normally try to avoid getting involved in these periodic outburstsF > of editor-jihad, (as I said in another thread, people like what theyG > like and you ain't gonna change them). but I noticed in this one that F > Alan asked a question here that nobody has answered. And it is quiteF > easy. I don't know if the the question was a real desire to know, orE > more flame-bait (it just gets impossible to tell when people get so D > passionate), so I'll just treat it naively as a simple request for > information, and reply to it.  > , > - And I hope it doesn't rekindle the fire! > 2 >  Alan E. Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >  > >[loads deleted..]I > >In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYP ' > >=PASTE, then *C to get back to work.  > > G > >In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, move H > >the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, pressI > >Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: show F > >buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there an# > >eaiser way?  [.. more deleted..]  > E > Yes there is a much easier way. the command is WRITE_FILE. To write G > out the contents of the paste buffer to 'foo.bar' say, withour moving E > buffers, changing the cursor position, the window or anything is to  > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(PASTE_BUFFER,"FOO.BAR")  > E > In fact, if you're just trying to write out a part of a file in the F > midst of an edit, you don't even need to put it in the paste buffer.E > You can just select the range, then without the paste sequence (the F > kp6 + gold kp6) you can write it straight out from the selected area > with the command > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")  > G > This can be useful if it is a huge range, and you don't want to waste 0 > time with an unnecessary cut and re-paste job.  G In EDT, I use GOLD-F to write the current buffer to a file. It would be F nice if EDT could write the current select range to file. I'd probablyG put that on GOLD-S or something that I don't currently use for anything  else.   E As you may gather, I have more use for EDT than TPU, mostly because I < don't have the option of using DECwindows all-day, everyday.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:30:12 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) # Subject: Re: Frequent_job.log;32767 / Message-ID: <ESd7a.533$Kx5.71@news.cpqcorp.net>   k In article <8110994444.20030221111327@ncc.volga.ru>, Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> writes:   ? :...We have a couple of frequent (every 5 min) batch jobs which I :eventually create log file with version 32767 and can't run any more....   ,   Have you seen Ask The Wizard topic (5845)?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:34:29 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: Further Question: retrieve integer from longword./ Message-ID: <3E5D08AE.11C319BF@vl.videotron.ca>   
 Albert wrote: M > Using C language to convert a longword to integer. How should be done in C?  > N > The following is the correct result. On the left hand side, is the print outG > by "printf" with "%d", and the right hand side is the correct integer 	 > output.   A To properly print longwords, you use the %ld directive in printf.   H If you have a longword variable that you wish to move to a word variable (int to short), you can:   myshort = (short) mylong ;  G However, the compiler will warn you of potential trimming. (if the long > contains a number greater than 65535 it won't fit in a short).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:20:53 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> 1 Subject: Re: How do I join the domain with Samba? 9 Message-ID: <9Ce7a.219$Xu.120949@news1.news.adelphia.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:  > H > Up until a couple of months ago it was the most recent version for VMSH > (although some people may have manage to fold in the changes making itH > match 2.0.8, there does not appear to have been a consolidated release > of that version).  > * > http://eisner.decus.org/~malmberg/samba/  F It's not there anymore.  It is on the OpenVMS Freeware 5.0 CD-ROM set. http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  D > Given the choice, you should go with 2.2.7a instead, available at: > - > http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jyc/    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:08:04 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. H Message-ID: <og87a.96842$Zr%.28517@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  . "VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageE news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCC@rlghncst964.usps.gov...  > & > "John Smith" [a@nonymous.com] wrote: > > 1 > >"VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message  > F >news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov... > >>< > >> Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful? > >>' > >> I think y'all know what to do. :^)  > >> > >> I already am. > >  > >  > >Which tool????  > >  > Golden Eggs. > 3 > See:  http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/golden-eggs/     > I'd never seen this on-line before. A very handy thing to have
 available.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:24:54 -0500 3 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> = Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. ; Message-ID: <zea7a.67906$fw1.37100@fe08.atl2.webusenet.com>   F I have some of the original hardcopy yellow Goldeneggs.  Yes, they are4 invaluable!  How do you know HP is killing the Eggs?    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageB news:og87a.96842$Zr%.28517@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > 0 > "VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in messageG > news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCC@rlghncst964.usps.gov...  > > ( > > "John Smith" [a@nonymous.com] wrote: > > > 3 > > >"VAXVMS" <bounce@notmail.com> wrote in message  > > H > >news:BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCB@rlghncst964.usps.gov... > > >>> > > >> Did anybody else find this tool to be extremely useful? > > >>) > > >> I think y'all know what to do. :^)  > > >> > > >> I already am. > > >  > > >  > > >Which tool????  > > >  > > Golden Eggs. > > 5 > > See:  http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/golden-eggs/  >  > @ > I'd never seen this on-line before. A very handy thing to have > available. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:39:10 -0600 + From: Andy Stoffel <a.stoffel@adelphia.net> = Subject: Re: HP killing Golden Eggs- future of goose unknown. > Message-ID: <Xns932EA96638701acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.230>  A "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> enlightened us with B news:zea7a.67906$fw1.37100@fe08.atl2.webusenet.com on 26 Feb 2003:  ? > I have some of the original hardcopy yellow Goldeneggs.  Yes, ? > they are invaluable!  How do you know HP is killing the Eggs?   ? Or are they killing the software you could buy to do your own ? B (I think it was a specialized version of AutoCAD or something like it)   7 See: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/GEG00C/GEG00CPF.PDF   A (Never could convince 'someone' to let me buy it (when it became  @ available to partners/ISV's/etc a few years ago).... back when I had a use for it..)    -Andy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:44:39 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: HP Reports 1st Quarter 2003 Results/ Message-ID: <3E5D1927.B74CE81B@vl.videotron.ca>    John Smith wrote: B > compared to negative 3.2% last quarter. Business-critical serverH > revenue was down 12% sequentially, reflecting a weak UNIX market and aA > tough quarter for NonStop servers in the telecommunications and  > finance industries    J Considering that HP has 0 enterprise products that are set for the future, this is no surprise.  M HP-UX has a double whammie of migration to that IA64 thing AND integration of M Tru64. Tandem has that migration to that IA64 thing. VMS has the migration to W that IA64 thing as well as the continued uncertainty over lack of marketing/commitment.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:57:20 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>Y Subject: Re: HSxx shadowing/striping vis a vis hardware RAID - was RE: Volumeset   across 8 Message-ID: <gd3q5v88ce8t6dpncgcrbfsjkvo0mqkg38@4ax.com>  7 On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 22:33:39 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Ryan Moore wrote: >>  M >> There's a bigger disadvantge than this.  All of your disks are in one rack ' >> connected to one set of controllers.  >  >John and Ryan,  > D >In my experience, the likelihood of such a failure is low enough to* >justify mitigating the negatives of HBVS. >  >As I said, YMMV...  > H >Also, do not the newer controller support "remote copy" so a mirror set- >can be propagated to second controller pair?   F Not sure what you mean here, but the remote copy could be referring toC the DRM support in HSG80 subsystems.  These are not mirrored across  controllers as you'd like.  C However, the CASA solution is a storage virtualization product that C allows you to provide pretty much continuous access to storage.  It B also provides for cross-controller RAID-1, even across the IP WAN.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:31:37 -0500 + From: "Martin O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE 6 Message-ID: <b3j4mq$1n2691$1@ID-118202.news.dfncis.de>   use the /NOPAGE qualifier.  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E5C74BB.E2A0B01B@vl.videotron.ca...  : $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  : $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  : $  : 6 : (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). :  : This is with VAX VMS 7.2 : ; : Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:15:56 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE / Message-ID: <3E5D126C.1BEA8935@vl.videotron.ca>    "John N." wrote: > J > When you "set term/dev=unknown", it also flips the value for ANSI to "NO > ANSI_CRT".N > If you do a "set term/dev=unknkown/ansi"  it works again.  Can you live with > that workaround?  L Hey, I normally have the terminal set to some VT device. But I stumbled ontoG this. With DEV=UNKNWON, HELP works fine (in TTY mode), but HELP/MESSAGE  returns nothing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:21:45 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE / Message-ID: <3E5D13C8.A16E2001@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote: L > OpenVMS V7.3  on node XXXXXX  26-FEB-2003 14:41:31.75  Uptime  17 19:13:36 > $ set term/dev=unkn  > $ help/message devf  > Press RETURN to continue ...    N Don't you have more imagination for your nodename ? At least you could name it- after an australian beer XXXX :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:24:27 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> 3 Subject: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE < Message-ID: <%pg7a.47638$Cv4.949979@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  L One thing I am still confused about;  What exactly was the HUGE SHOWSTOPPER?L Was it the fact that a possible bug in VMS made everyone stop what they were doing and watch in amazement?   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E5C74BB.E2A0B01B@vl.videotron.ca...  > $SET TERM/DEV=UNKNOWN  > $HELP/MESSAGE messagename  > $  > 6 > (no output at all, no complaint, no error message.). >  > This is with VAX VMS 7.2 > ; > Tried it both with a telnet connection, and on a DECTERM.  >    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 03 12:16:26 -0800/ From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> Q Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM monopoly 3 Message-ID: <561.187T1319T7364328@kltpzyxm.invalid>   C In article <20030226112733.6D6DAB73.NOFFLE@momos.conceptual.net.au> . prep@prep.synonet.com (Paul Repacholi) writes:   >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > ? >> "They" can demand all they want; they get what they pay for.  > 2 >I think we need to carve this in stone somewhere!  2 Then we can hit politicians over the head with it.   --, /~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)= \ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. @  X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.F / \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:54:46 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) K Subject: Re: Image restore of "old" saveset fails to restore VMS$COMMON.DIR 0 Message-ID: <Gde7a.536$Kx5.259@news.cpqcorp.net>  a In article <ok2d5vod87t32dvamcu59ta0dn9kroi4vh@4ax.com>, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> writes: K :I stumbled across this problem earlier this week after restoring an image  N :backup of an Alpha V7.1-1H2 system disk, which had been saved (BACKUP /IMAGE) :using V6.2 BACKUP.   J   Going backwards with BACKUP is not what I would recommend -- I'd use the   newest versions.  K :After performing the restore on my Alpha V7.3-1 system, using the command:  : ( :$   backup /image /initialize /verify -G :        VMSKITS1:[VMS_KITS.ALPVMS0711H2_TEMPLATE]ALPVMS0711H2. /save -  :        DKA400: /truncate2 :%BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification pass .   A   Please provide the header output portion of the output from the    following command:  "    $ BACKUP/LIST saveset.bck /SAVE  O :It appears that you cannot restore, using current versions of BACKUP (at least O :V7.3 and V7.3-1) a system disk image saveset created under some older versions P :of BACKUP (at least V6.2) and end up with an intact disk structure. I could notO :find in the archives a definitive response that cleared this up for me, and am Q :hoping this post will provoke such as response, or a reference to the definitive  :answer.  G   AFAIK, this stuff works just fine -- I've been reading older savesets H   for many years now.  If an older BACKUP cannot be restored, then thereG   is a problem with the newer version of BACKUP, or there was a problem F   with the version that wrote the saveset, or the source disk had someD   sort of file structure problem and BACKUP dutifully replicated it.  =   The first implementation of /[NO]ALIAS was at OpenVMS V6.2.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:05:54 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>C Subject: Re: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests 6 Message-ID: <b3jdo9$1ljpet$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  ) It will probably beat am Itanium as well. L Imagine what would happen if they would make a *real*, optimized, VAX cpu in that same process.  L The VAXstation 4000-90A uses a 83 MHz clock. Considering its performance the% processor runs on 4 times that speed. ? That was 5 years before Intel had the Pentium II at 350 MHz....   0 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> schreef in bericht3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEBNGLAA.tom@kednos.com... E > I wonder what the corresponding speed would be of a VAX emulator on  > a 4.3GHz Pentium?  >  > >-----Original Message----- , > >From: Tsarkon [mailto:xeio77@hotmail.com]- > >Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:05 AM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB > >Subject: Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests > >  > > 9 > >Intel Itanium 67% slower than Intel Alpha in SAP tests  > > I > >A REPORT in authoritative German magazine c't said that SAP benchmarks > > >demonstrate that an Itanium system is 67% slower than an HP > >AlphaServer GS1280.F > >That follows an earlier report by c't that showed benchmarks of AMD% > >64-bit chips using SAP benchmarks.  > > I > >The same report mentions that the code for IA-64 is around three times E > >the sheer bulk of the 32-bit code, while AMD's X86-64 code for the $ > >same is only 15 per cent greater. > >  > >And so it goes. > > , > >You can find the article, in German, here7 > >http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-25.02.03-000/  > >  > > 2 > >So all you Carly Girls out there, chew on this:D > >DISTRIBUTORS AND RESELLERS of HP kit are up in arms - no surpriseH > >there - and are turning to previous arch-enemy IBM to succour them in0 > >their hour of need, Chuck rings me up to say.G > >The problem is that getting accreditation from the New HP is so much D > >harder than from the Big Q, in the old days. They have to fill in? > >reams and reams of paperwork to become authorized disties or E > >resellers, and HP is squeezing them hard to make the minimum sales - > >volumes that will keep them in Team Carly.  > > H > >But IBM is welcoming the disaffected with open arms, Chuck adds. EvenI > >the ones that do less than $10 million annually are being courted like 2 > >princelings and given the red carpet treatment. > > D > >Chuck mentions that HP's ENSA@Work and its partner conference areE > >rolling in Orlando, FLA, this very week. But this event has become G > >very hush hush indeed. No press or analysts are being allowed within  > >100 yards of the spot.  > > A > >We said: "Is it possible that the NewHP could create a channel H > >strategy that was worse than DECs?". The line went as quiet as the PR  > >bunnies when Mageek shows up. > >  > >---) > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. = > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). C > >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003  > >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).B > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:27:47 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 1 Subject: Re: Is there a way to FTP a locked file? 0 Message-ID: <nQd7a.532$Kx5.462@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <48hb5vgd4b9raiji32ohu8loiefdf14o4f@4ax.com>, Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com> writes:P :Thinking for FTP my Oracle datafile to a local server (same segment) instead of :the regular DLT Tape drive.  B   If the file is locked, the FTP has not completed, or the remote E   system (the one running the FTP server) has not let go of the file. -   This latter case would be a bug, of course.   B   SHOW DEVICE/FILE/NOSYS will likely show which process is holding   open the particular file.   C   If the remote system is looking for the file and finding one that D   is not (yet) copied over, I'd switch to a scheme which copies overC   the file using a temporary name, and then renames it to the final =   and appropriate filename.  This greatly reduces the window.   @ :I don't have NFS or Pathworks installed, running OVMS 7.1 ECO9.  D   Eh?  OpenVMS V7.1 is very old, as is the typical version of TCP/IPD   Services found on that release -- if you are running what I assumeD   is a TCP/IP Services ECO9, I will assume that this TCP/IP Services7   version is V4.1.   (ECO10 is the ECO for V4.1, BTW.)    A   The current releases are OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1, and TCP/IP V5.3.   F   I'd strongly encourage an upgrade to releases slightly more current.  D   We made significant changes and significant updates in more recent<   OpenVMS releases, and with TCP/IP Services V5.0 and later.  E   I'd move to V7.1-2, to V7.2-2, or to V7.3-1.  With mandatory ECOs.  !   And  to TCP/IP V5.3.  With ECO.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:27:17 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>> Subject: Re: Itanium "threw out all the good parts of the x86"/ Message-ID: <3E5D06FF.B29A367F@vl.videotron.ca>    Russell Wallace wrote:G > It seems to me that this is nonsense. I've yet to see anyone point to H > any feature of x86 that's good (other than by comparison with the evenE > worse CISC architectures like 68k and VAX). x86 is fast despite its H > quirks, because of the vast resources that have been thrown at it. And > the same is true of IA64.   J The 8086 is perhaps easier to upgrade because it is, in its core, a simpleL architecture. Thi makes it easier to review/update than some bloated complex' architecture that tries to do too much.   M I.E. 8086 gets its speed through hardware's raw speed (aka: Mhz). Other chips H get their speed through design that makes each cycle do a lot more work.  N Alpha seemed to have the right balance of fancy features and clean design thatL would have allowed it to move much faster had its owner given it the budgets& and allowed it to be sold more widely.  M IA64 seems to be a complex design that tries to do a lot, but not enough (the L compiler has to do a lot of the work) and Intel won't be able to upgrade theN hardware speed of a bloated/complex chip as fast as it has been able to update	 the 8086.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:38:41 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!/ Message-ID: <3E5D17C1.EFC0550B@vl.videotron.ca>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:3 > IA32 is a speed deamon its design allows it to be 5 > clocked faster and implimented in a smaller process # > earlier than a brainiac like IPF.   L Oh my god. The end of the world is close because I find myself agreeing with Andrew Harrisson.  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:14:23 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!2 Message-ID: <xvOcnRM1iJHJ18CjXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E5D17C1.EFC0550B@vl.videotron.ca... * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:5 > > IA32 is a speed deamon its design allows it to be 7 > > clocked faster and implimented in a smaller process % > > earlier than a brainiac like IPF.  > I > Oh my god. The end of the world is close because I find myself agreeing  with > Andrew Harrisson.   L I'm afraid Andrew's not worth agreeing with this time.  Itanic2's problem is? not lack of competitive performance, but lack of efficiency (in D power/required cooling, chip area/manufacturing cost, expenditure of@ development funding and effort, requirement for more compilationD optimization and updates thereof...).  And of course the lack of the@ ancillary on-chip performance and scaling features that EV7 has.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:17:47 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!2 Message-ID: <fwSdneJYWO291sCjXTWc3w@metrocast.net>  9 "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@PROBE.mitre.org> wrote in message ( news:b3gcpi$7ap$1@newslocal.mitre.org...; > bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes in article I <b3g264$j3s$1@pcls4.std.com> dated Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:30:12 +0000 (UTC):    ...   L > With 32 bits you can access 4 GB of memory.  That's about 4 hours of video > as stored in a Tivo.  I Actually, given its pricing I suspect that Tivo stores the video on disk. L In which case you don't need anything like 4 GB of memory to manage and view& all the video your heart could desire.  /   Someday we might want that much memory in our  > desktops, I'm guessing 2007.  : Why wait?  You can get it today - P4s support up to 64 GB.  H The real question is when you'll need more than 4 GB of *virtual addressD space* in your desktop applications.  While there are a few high-endI applications today (Photoshop is the most frequently-quoted example) that G could use that much, most desktops don't run any applications that come E anywhere near that amount and probably won't for a long time to come.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:31:12 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!/ Message-ID: <v5qjhte5r2ouaa@corp.supernews.com>    Bill Todd wrote:  1 >   Someday we might want that much memory in our  >  >>desktops, I'm guessing 2007. >  > < > Why wait?  You can get it today - P4s support up to 64 GB. > J > The real question is when you'll need more than 4 GB of *virtual addressF > space* in your desktop applications.  While there are a few high-endK > applications today (Photoshop is the most frequently-quoted example) that I > could use that much, most desktops don't run any applications that come G > anywhere near that amount and probably won't for a long time to come.   G We are, of course, talking about "consumer desktops" - there are plenty G of engineering and scientific applications utilizing 64 bits of virtual 6 address space running on 64-bit RISC "desktops" today.   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2003 04:33:41 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!+ Message-ID: <b3k4f50s5s@enews3.newsguy.com>   P Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote:1 > How about the c librarys only a small amount of ) > code here !!! ever heard of glibc ?????   G As a matter of fact I have heard of glibc.  However, take a look at how H *pathetic* of a state gcc was in with relation to header files and libc,L prior to Linux.  It was *bleeping* hard to build stuff on Linux in the earlyK days, in part becuase gcc was such a mess.  As far as I'm concerned GNU has K benefited *FAR* more from Linux than Linux has benefited from GNU.  Without B Linux and *BSD how much attention would the GNU stuff have gotten?  4 > Most of the network stack from routing to dhcp/nfs9 > nis/bind, ftpd etc all comes from non Linux sources. Or 4 > at least they do in RedHat I cannot be bothered to > look at the other distros.  I Networking on Linux can be a bit of a scarry mess between distro's.  I've J done a lot of hair pulling of late thanks to that.  Make that dealing with/ the differences between distro's can be a mess.   C > In reality only about 5% of a Linux disto is actually what people = > think of as Linux, the rest is aquired from GNU, Apache.org  > Samba, FreBSD, Sun etc etc.   H Did I say otherwise?  What I said is that GNU is a very small portion ofJ what makes up a Linux distribution, and other than gcc it isn't that vitalJ of one.  Keep in mind though that most Opensource developement is now doneI on Linux, and as such getting apps to compile on other platforms (such as " OpenBSD or Solaris) can be tricky.  ; > Without the existing OpenSource/Freeware apps Linux would : > not exist because the amount of work required to develop; > their equivalents would have killed the project before it  > even got started.   D The fact is, without the various Opensource/freeware apps, the wholeJ computing arena would be a lot different.  Take a look at Solaris, how youJ all are getting rid of CDE in favor of Gnome (is Motif being pushed to theJ side as well).  Pretty much everyone is using Apache and Samba these days, etc.    L One thing I'm really not happy about with the whole OpenSource mess (and theH commercial Unix's are being contaminated as well) is all the garbage you= have to have installed just to run a simple Gnome or KDE app!    			Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2003 04:50:03 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>8 Subject: Re: Linus trashes Itanium - he's scared of VMS!+ Message-ID: <b3k5dr0jeo@enews2.newsguy.com>   M "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" <winston@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu> wrote: c > In article <b3h84o11j80@enews3.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:   K >>A more valid explaination for his reaction to Itanium might be that Linus L >>works for Transmeta which most likely tends to cause him to be Anti-Intel.  N > Uh, that article talks at length about how he likes P4 better than Itanium. L > That's anti-Intel in what way?  He prefers one Intel product over another.  N Heh...  What can I say, it had been a day or two since I'd read the article.  L I just took another look at the article and it looks as if I was letting the& Registers comments effect my reaction.   			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:48:45 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) K Subject: Re: memory errors and bugcheck dump (PROCGONE) with ALPHA 3000/600 0 Message-ID: <18e7a.535$Kx5.186@news.cpqcorp.net>  x In article <917991b.0302210330.6319a70f@posting.google.com>, helbphi@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com (Phillip Helbig) writes:A :I have a nice DEC 3000/600 (21064 ALPHA) with 192 MB and (still) B :VMS 7.2-1.  It works fine, except occasionally after power up the" :self-test gives a memory error.    A   I'd find and fix the error -- the default power-up self-test is (   not an exhaustive memory test, either.  C :Power-cycling always solves this problem ($ SET HAMMER/SIZE=BIG).  D :Actually, the last few times I've turned it on, I haven't seen this@ :anymore, but have almost always seen another problem I had seen@ :before, namely a bugcheck dump with the PROCGONE error.  Typing$ :>>> BOOT always solve this problem.  A   PROCGONE can arise for various reasons -- basically, one of the B   key processes has failed.  There is a code left in R0 that might?   help, but these errors can range from hardware errors to disk :   fragmentation to configuration problems to OpenVMS bugs.  :   Fragmentation usually doesn't resolve itself, of course.  ? :First question: what could be the cause of these two problems.   @   Show the error message text, and I'd be more willing to hazardB   an answer beyond a generic bad memory, bad processor, bad cache,C   or a bad motherboard.  :-)  (And we both know that you had really ?   intended to include the actual error message text within your    posting, too. :-)   @   As for PROCGONE, poke around in AskQ and see what you can find=   for previous discussions.  The AskQ pointers is in the FAQ. @   That said, even with the carcass and with R0, it can sometimes@   be interesting to figure out which startup process "cratered".  1 :Second question: are these two problems related?   
   Unknown.  H :Third question: Could these problems be solved by leaving the power on?  
   Unknown.  E :...I would like to save some power costs and in the other flat only  C :switch the stuff on when I need it, which is just to log in to the E :other flat, mostly.  Would folks generally advise against this, i.e. C :should I leave the power on all the time?  If I do so, I will also G :have to leave the BA350 with the (system) disk(s) switched on as well, 6 :so it is not just the ALPHA power which is a concern.  I   Startup and shutdown tends to stress the power supplies and the thermal F   cooling -- newer systems are better about surviving this, of course.  I   As you are apparently -- and no offense is intended -- not particularly J   comfortable with hardware troubleshooting, I'd tend to leave the systemsJ   powered on.  The monitors can certainly fail if power-cycled repeatedly,L   but newer monitors tend to be better about surviving a typical duty cycle.J   (And if the monitor fails, it's usually obvious and quite easy to swap.)      Again, no offense is intended.  = :...(Fortunately, on my ALPHAs I can switch off the console.  , :On my VAXes, this always halts the systems.  =   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ.  Search specifically for BREAK.   E :(Yes, a lean, mean DS10 with enough internal disks (easily removable E :from the front panel) for the needs of this "X-terminal" would be a  D :better option, but I haven't seen machines this new for free yet.    ;   AlphaServer DS10L boxes have been offered at under US$1K.   <   But yes, this is rather more than the usual electric bill.    G :What about setting auto_action to halt instead of boot?  Would letting I :the machine rest a bit after power up perhaps prevent the bugcheck dump?   $   That depends greatly on the cause.  G :At the moment, booting by hand after the bugcheck dump seems to always G :work.  (And if I switch the machine on only when I am present, I don't  :need AUTO_ACTION=BOOT anyway.  I   Hardware bugs are hardware bugs.  They can stay flakey and intermittent H   for years (I really dislike these), or they can suddenly fail hard (onG   the balance, this class of hardware bug is preferable), but -- once a I   hardware bug appears -- it then seldom really disappears.  I'd first be G   looking for the specific cause of the memory error that was reported,    in other words.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:16:52 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) T Subject: Re: Mis-set Terminal Types (was: Re: HUGE showstopper *bug* in HELP/MESSAGE0 Message-ID: <Eqf7a.541$Kx5.133@news.cpqcorp.net>  >   re: Terminal Type Settings, SET TERMINAL/DEVICE_TYPE=UNKNOWN  I   Various OpenVMS components will fail when you have an UNKNOWN terminal. F   (You were expecting to lie to OpenVMS, and not get caught? :-)  MostH   any application and any screen-management package that expects to haveH   access to the typical serial terminal attributes and capabilities will5   likely fail with an unknown terminal, for instance.   2   LSEDIT, EVE, and TPU text editors will all fail.  =   EDT will stay in line-mode; no (functional) CHANGE command.   6   HELP will dump output without regard to page length.  A   SHOW CLUSTER/CONTINOUS is mildly entertaining, if you're bored.   9   And MONITOR output is, well, not what you might expect.   E   Folks that have operated on the "glass TTY" mode of the traditional A   VAX system consoles will understand how to use line-mode EDT or E   equivalent tools, and the value of a terminal or terminal emulator. E   Various Alpha systems offer a VT52 emulation implemented within the E   console drivers, which makes this console environment slightly more D   tolerable.  But operating in line-mode as an unrecognized terminal=   is still not something I'd recommend for the novice user...   A   HUGE DOUBLE-SECRET DCL FIX FOLLOWS -- PLEASE DON'T TELL ANYONE:        $ SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE     :-)   F   The Unknown Terminal?  Why do I now suddenly have visions of a paperH   grocery bag covering a VT terminal.  Whoops, sorry, wrong decade.  :-)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 20:23:59 GMT% From: Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> 1 Subject: Re: Need help passing text to executable < Message-ID: <Xns932E884FD92B7riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.98>  H     	We got DTM and it works!!! This is a great solution to my problem.  Thanks for the advice.  	     	Mark   ! briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in , news:UErfNE2Db1Z0@eisner.encompasserve.org:   + > In article <3E5520FB.5010602@vajhoej.dk>, ; > =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:   >> Mark Fisher wrote: F >>> I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text; >>> file and redefining sys$input using the typical format:  >>> ) >>> $ define/user sys$input text_file.txt ' >>> $ define/user sys$command sys$input  >>> $ run program.exe  >>  E >>>          Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed  >>>          correctly  D >>> to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user toH >>> press the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button. So the problem is how to developeG >>> the correct escape sequences in a text file to pass. Remember, this F >>> is a raw text file and cannot contain any DCL commands or symbols.G >>> Also, the executable program uses SMG for I/O, if this has anything  >>> to do with it.   >>  2 >> I do not belive that SMG$ can read from a file. > E > SMG$ can read from a file.  I don't believe that a virtual keyboard B > mapped to a disk file can return function key press information,
 > however. > 9 > I'd be thinking of solutions along the following lines:  > B > 1.  DEC Test Manager.  You can provide scripted input simulatingG > an interactive user of an arbitrary application.  But DTM costs money 6 > the last I knew (unless you have a DECset license?). > @ > 2.  A pseudo-terminal.  You programmatically supply input to aE > terminal device which can control an arbitrary appliction.  But you H > need to write the program to provide the input to the pseudo-terminal. > < > 3.  Nail up a real terminal loopback type connection.  You@ > $ COPY <filename> <output-terminal-device> and the application@ > reads from <input-terminal device>.  But you need to be eitherG > software savvy or hardware savvy enough to build such a thingie.  And 1 > you need to put escape sequences into the file.  > D > 4.  Modify the application to accept text-mode alternatives to theD > function keys.  e.g. "PF4" alone on a line is accepted as an alias> > for PF4.  But you need to be able to modify the application. >  >      John Briggs >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:13:31 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 1 Subject: Re: Need help passing text to executable 0 Message-ID: <%Cd7a.530$Kx5.399@news.cpqcorp.net>  d In article <Xns932862EE6D3A7riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.98>, Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> writes:I :I am trying to pass text/input to an executable program via a text file  3 :and redefining sys$input using the typical format:  ..  &   [example of I/O redirection omitted] ..I :    	Here's the problem. The first 3 lines of text get passed correctly  H :to the program. Then the program requires an interactive user to press  :the F6, F7, F8 - F10 button.   @   You are rapidly approaching need for pseudo-terminals for this?   particular input pattern -- tools such as the pseudo-terminal <   interface and DTM (DEC Test Manager) can provide for this.  @   Pseudo-terminals -- see sys$examples:*logger*.c -- can be used-   to pass arbitrary data into an application.   A   The "fun" you are having here is the difference between command @   input through the terminal driver, and input received from theA   records of a file -- you are mixing records and multi-character    keypresses in this design.  @   If I were working on this, I'd look seriously at splitting offB   the UI (SMG) operations from the data and -- to use the industryA   buzz-phrase -- the business logic.  If I could not, I'd look at ?   providing a way for the program to open and to read the data  A   from a file with a known format, if one is specified.  (And I'd B   provide some sort of a header that allowed me to identify up-revB   or down-rev data files.  If the file syntax is complex, calls to   lib$table_parse can be used.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:37:02 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the/ Message-ID: <3E5D0946.A2D0B91B@vl.videotron.ca>    Robert Deininger wrote: G > The new name is for a new line of products.  They couldn't really use J > "OpenVMS Alpha" for the new stuff, could they?  They seem to have pickedD > an inoffensive (if silly) name that doesn't annoy Intel's lawyers.  A Excuse me, but what is wrong with VMS ? Or if you must, openVMS ?   F > Everyone will continue to call it (Open)VMS in the general case, and? > (Open)VMS I64 when they refer to the specific implementation.   I Which is why there is no need to find some new name for VMS. If VMS is to M become platform independant, it must not tie its name to a specific platform.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:04 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the- Message-ID: <26FEB200316044531@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes... X }In article <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:8 }> Why, exactly, should all Intel trademarks be avoided?C }HP owns the trademarks for everything in the names OpenVMS VAX and G }OpenVMS Alpha.  It makes sense that they should control the trademarks  }for the new one also. } D }Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided thatF }starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting withC }"M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than 
 }Itanium ? } " }So what happens to the VMS name ?  H First, what happens to the Windows name if the name of the chip changes?> Not a lot. Likewise, the situation should be the same ofr VMS.  @ That's why you name it something generic like "hp OpenVMS IA64", or maybe "hp OpenVMS EPIC".   ; Or, proabbly better, you could put the word "for" in there, > "hpOpenVMS for IA64". Then changing it to whatever they change> their terminology to would cause relatively little confusion -> it's not a different VMS, which the VMS to OpenVMS name change> seemed to indicate to people, it's just "for" a different type= of system (or the same type of system with a different name).   D The alternative is to not have versions of VMS with different names.? Just one name. It's all "hp OpenVMS". You just buy the one that @ is compatable with your system. Like, say, Microsoft Word. It is@ always Microsoft Word, whether you buy the one that runs on a PCD or a Mac, which doesn't seem to cause much of anybody any confusion.D This is actually a lot like the version above with word "for" in theC name, except that it isn't exactly part of the name. It's more just G a descriptive element that goes on the package (and maybe the license).   B Aside from being rediculous for what it says, the new name is also just plain too long.  B I see little point in suggesting to them that they drop the "Open"C part of the name anymore. It has never really seemed like the owner B of the thing at any time has ever thought that doing so would be aC good plan. Otherwise I'd suggest just "hp VMS for X" where X is the D members of the set "VAX", "Alpha", and one of either "IA64" or "IPF"- (I'd probably pick IA64, if it was up to me).    --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 17:25:46 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the3 Message-ID: <Avu18fYdxDcl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <26FEB200316044531@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: 3 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes... Z > }In article <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:: > }> Why, exactly, should all Intel trademarks be avoided?E > }HP owns the trademarks for everything in the names OpenVMS VAX and I > }OpenVMS Alpha.  It makes sense that they should control the trademarks  > }for the new one also. > } F > }Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided thatH > }starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting withE > }"M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than  > }Itanium ? > } $ > }So what happens to the VMS name ? > J > First, what happens to the Windows name if the name of the chip changes?@ > Not a lot. Likewise, the situation should be the same ofr VMS. > B > That's why you name it something generic like "hp OpenVMS IA64", > or maybe "hp OpenVMS EPIC".   @ IA64 and EPIC are both like Itanium, names that Intel is free to2 change while keeping the instruction set the same.  D > Aside from being rediculous for what it says, the new name is also > just plain too long.  F We are not talking about the name people use in this newsgroup; we areF talking about the "official" name approved by lawyers for the product.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:26:38 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for theL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2602032026380001@user-uinj546.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E5D0946.A2D0B91B@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote:H >> The new name is for a new line of products.  They couldn't really useK >> "OpenVMS Alpha" for the new stuff, could they?  They seem to have picked E >> an inoffensive (if silly) name that doesn't annoy Intel's lawyers.  > B >Excuse me, but what is wrong with VMS ? Or if you must, openVMS ? > G >> Everyone will continue to call it (Open)VMS in the general case, and @ >> (Open)VMS I64 when they refer to the specific implementation. > J >Which is why there is no need to find some new name for VMS. If VMS is toN >become platform independant, it must not tie its name to a specific platform.  M The customers might like some way to distinguish between the various flavors.    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2003 01:41:09 GMT- From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@nospam.rcn.com> * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the> Message-ID: <Xns932ED26D9BBB9kenrbnsnrbnsncom@199.184.165.241>  5 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in E news:rdeininger-2602032026380001@user-uinj546.dialup.mindspring.com:    F > The customers might like some way to distinguish between the various > flavors.   >   L Then again, most places I've been at lately still refer to any machine that J runs VMS as a VAX!  Even is some company documents I have seen references  to "the Alpha VAX"...    Kenb   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2003 20:34 CDT ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) * Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the- Message-ID: <26FEB200320340736@gerg.tamu.edu>   1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes... X }In article <26FEB200316044531@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:4 }> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...[ }> }In article <25FEB200317520089@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: ; }> }> Why, exactly, should all Intel trademarks be avoided? F }> }HP owns the trademarks for everything in the names OpenVMS VAX andJ }> }OpenVMS Alpha.  It makes sense that they should control the trademarks }> }for the new one also.  }> }  G }> }Suppose they named it OpenVMS Itanium, and Intel later decided that I }> }starting with the Munroe chip (to choose a US president starting with F }> }"M" at random) their chips would be called Farfenuegel rather than
 }> }Itanium ?  }> }  % }> }So what happens to the VMS name ?  }>  K }> First, what happens to the Windows name if the name of the chip changes? A }> Not a lot. Likewise, the situation should be the same ofr VMS.  }>  C }> That's why you name it something generic like "hp OpenVMS IA64",  }> or maybe "hp OpenVMS EPIC". } A }IA64 and EPIC are both like Itanium, names that Intel is free to 3 }change while keeping the instruction set the same.   C EPIC is a term like CISC and RISC. They can't change it unless they J completely throw away the chip and start over widh a non-EPIC architectureF (or switch to making Alphas, or whatever). It shouldn't be a trademarkE of Intel either - the thing itelf was invented by HP and the term was H aparently invented by both HP and Intel, according to a PDF file on HP'sH web site, "We started HP Labs' EPIC research early in 1989, although the8 name EPIC was coined in 1997 by the HP-Intel alliance."   C Besides which, if you go to Intel's web site you'll find the little C circled R symbol after "Itanium", but not after "EPIC" and it isn't . on their web page that lists their trademarks:- http://www.intel.com/intel/legal/tmnouns2.htm , Neither is "IA64" or "IPF", for that matter.  D "Itanium", "Itanium-based", "Itanium 2", and "Itanium 2-based": yep,D trademarks. (Along with these in combination with a variety of other words).   C "EPIC" and "IPF": nope. Not trademarks or servicemarks of the Intel " Corporation, as far as I can tell.  ? True64.org claims (on their Alpha-IA64 FAQ page) that IA64 is a @ trademark of Intel, but it doesn't appear on Intel's own list at? the above mentioned location on their own site. I'm inclined to C think that it isn't, since Intel should know if it was one of their  own trademarks or not.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:29:19 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Official OpenVMS name for the =?iso-8859-1?Q?Itanium=AE?= releases	leases le / Message-ID: <3E5D0779.95F74FE0@vl.videotron.ca>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:A > I have no idea if Sun is considering using Opteron, though from B > its SPECs we would have to consider it for our x86 Solaris/Linux > boxes.  M Considerin the raucus when Sun announced that it wouldn't continue to upgrade J the 8086 version of Solaris, is it fair to state that Sun will continue to" keep the 8086 version at 32 bits ?  L Or do you see the day coming shortly that Sun would go Hammer at 64 bits and/ then truly drop the 32 bit version of Solaris ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:56:53 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>: Subject: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing0 Message-ID: <01C2DD96.8AFC0400@sulfer.icius.com>  5 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=54835&cid=5371889   G Tim Sweeny of Epic (big game developer) about Intel saying 64bit on the % desktop is "end of the decade" stuff:   F "Intel's claims are wholly out of touch with reality. On a daily basisC we're running into the Windows 2GB barrier with our next-generation ? content development and preprocessing tools. If cost-effective, E backwards-compatible 64-bit CPU's were available today, we'd buy them B today. We need them today. It looks like we'll get them in April."  B He's talking about Opteron in April, of course. They have a 64-bit1 version of Unreal 2003 pretty much ready to roll.   F There are various other people chiming in on the thread, all agreeing.H The market is obviously there, and if AMD take it successfully there's aH good chance they'll be able to move up into the high end server space asD they continue development. That's got to be a nightmare scenario for Intel.   VMS on Hammer please, HP.   >  #####   -----------------------------------------------------? #-O-O-# | Arthur: "It's times like this I wish I'd listened   | ? #  L  # | to what my Mother used to say." Ford: Why, what did | ?  #===#  | she say?" Arthur: "I don't know, I didn't listen."  | >   ###    -----------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 15:22:19 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > Subject: Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing3 Message-ID: <hpAEzN6RMjUJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C2DD96.8AFC0400@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: 7 > http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=54835&cid=5371889  > I > Tim Sweeny of Epic (big game developer) about Intel saying 64bit on the ' > desktop is "end of the decade" stuff:  > H > "Intel's claims are wholly out of touch with reality. On a daily basisE > we're running into the Windows 2GB barrier with our next-generation A > content development and preprocessing tools. If cost-effective, G > backwards-compatible 64-bit CPU's were available today, we'd buy them D > today. We need them today. It looks like we'll get them in April." >   G 	But nothing for the masses to run it on.  Unless there is some hidden  C 	market for Unreal 2003 on Linux based Opteron servers.  After all, * 	ClodHammer isn't due out until September:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7868  O So why, we asked, did AMD delay the chip until September? The answer, according O to John Crank, of the desktop product group at AMD, is because "the Barton core  rocks".   H > There are various other people chiming in on the thread, all agreeing.J > The market is obviously there, and if AMD take it successfully there's aJ > good chance they'll be able to move up into the high end server space asF > they continue development. That's got to be a nightmare scenario for > Intel.  > 	And they are lathering at the bit for a desktop that shows upA 	in September, maybe?  They'll have drool down to their boot tops C 	by the time that sucker shows up.  It doesn't ship until Microsoft  	is ready for it to ship.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:17:05 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: PC developers opinion of 64 bit desktop computing2 Message-ID: <cuicnVBSucFr18CjXTWcqg@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:hpAEzN6RMjUJ@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > In article <01C2DD96.8AFC0400@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:9 > > http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=54835&cid=5371889  > > K > > Tim Sweeny of Epic (big game developer) about Intel saying 64bit on the ) > > desktop is "end of the decade" stuff:  > > J > > "Intel's claims are wholly out of touch with reality. On a daily basisG > > we're running into the Windows 2GB barrier with our next-generation C > > content development and preprocessing tools. If cost-effective, I > > backwards-compatible 64-bit CPU's were available today, we'd buy them F > > today. We need them today. It looks like we'll get them in April." > >  > * > But nothing for the masses to run it on.  L Exactly what part of 'content development and preprocessing tools' above didL you fail to understand?  In the above statement Sweeny is talking about whatI would be useful to developers, not end-users - and since beta versions of J 64-bit Windows are already running on Hammer, they probably won't have too? much difficulty in getting them if they don't develop on Linux.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:36:00 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> * Subject: Re: Pine Email Problem on OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <3E5D6B29.9557D851@firstdbasource.com>   Barry Skidmore wrote:  > G > I just installed Pine 3.91-2 on OpenVMS 7.2 and receive the following K > error when trying to send to an Internet (non-local) email address (local  > email works fine): > " > "Mail not sent.  User not local" > A > What configuration change do I need to change to enable sending  > non-local email? > 	 > Thanks,  > Barry Skidmore  E look at your SMTP relay.  it is probably set to "no relay"(TCPIP show H config smtp).  What I have done in the past is to set relay and but only! from known systems on my network.  --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:35:44 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>$ Subject: Re: Problem booting 4000/906 Message-ID: <b3jbvn$1mer80$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  > "Dan Williams" <dan.williams@btconnect.com> schreef in bericht+ news:b3gnrp$jtl$1@knossos.btinternet.com... J > I have a 4000/90 which I am having trouble installing vms on. I have two cdJ > drives on of which it recognises but it goes offline after booting (WhenF > starting backup command). The other drive will boot and install on aG > vaxstation 3100 but the 4000/90 refuses to boot from it. Is it likely  there ! > is a problem with the 4000/90 ? L > The drive on the 4000/90 is a 2gb drive so I can't install on the 3100 and > swap the drives over. % > Can anyone cast any light on this ?  > K No idea what's wrong. But you could boot the 4000-90 as a satelite from the J 3100 and restore the .B saveset. Next copy all the remaining savesets fromJ the CD to the target system disk. Boot the 4000-90 from its local disk andK tell the installation procedure to search for the distribution kits on that 
 same disk.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:49:19 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] / Message-ID: <3E5D1A3E.DFAFBE21@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote: J > Let me summarise: Has anyone successfully used an interface created with > TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE?   ? If I had 2 ethernet cards, the interfaces would be SE0 and SE1.   A If I want 2 IP adresses on the first ethernet card, I would have:  	SE0: and SEA0:   ( I have done the second type succesfully.  + For successive interfaces on the same card.   SE0: SEA0: SEB0: SEC0: etc   H (note that the "SE" changes from machine to machine depending on type of ethernet card you have)    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:06:06 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] ; Message-ID: <01KSWQRG1DOG9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   A > If I had 2 ethernet cards, the interfaces would be SE0 and SE1.  > C > If I want 2 IP adresses on the first ethernet card, I would have:  > 	SE0: and SEA0:  > * > I have done the second type succesfully. > - > For successive interfaces on the same card.  >  SE0: SEA0: SEB0: SEC0: etc  > J > (note that the "SE" changes from machine to machine depending on type of > ethernet card you have)   G Right.  I understand the concepts and can set them up OK.  The problem  F is getting them to work.  :-|  Specifically, I would like to have and G ISDN router on my hobbyist network at home use one interface and a DSL  I router use another (pseudointerface).  I couldn't get that to work.  The  < DSL router works fine on the real interface, but not on the  pseudointerface.  G According to a private communication from VAXman, there is a "feature"  H in newer versions of TCPIP which prevent one from using both interfaces B simultaneously, apparently (if I understood everything correctly) F because TCPIP tries to route all stuff out through the default route, F even including "return traffic" for inbound connections which came in E through another interface!  This is a separate problem.  However, it  I should be possible to use one or the other (with, of course, the default  H route pointing to the router on the network I want to use) at different  times.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:02:26 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] 6 Message-ID: <b3jdhp$1lhohs$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  H "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> schreef in bericht5 news:01KSWGPQ7RPU9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... H > I'm surprised I got so little (actually no) response to my rather long" > post involving pseudointerfaces. > J > Let me summarise: Has anyone successfully used an interface created with > TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE?   F Well actually I did post an answer but it did not make it to your ISP. Here's the text again:  K The TCPIP stack allows a choice in broadcast masks: all ones or all zeroes. = The latter is no longer used. You entered an all zeroes mask:    Interface: WE0?    IP_Addr: 213.252.154.202   NETWRK: 255.255.255.248   BRDCST:  213.252.154.207     Interface: WEA0?    IP_Addr: 192.168.1.202     NETWRK: 255.255.255.248   BRDCST:  213.252.154.207   B The WEA0 interface should have BRDCST set to 192.168.1.207, right?   Along the same lines:    TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE FFA0   C TCPIP> SET INTERFACE FFA0 /HOST=KESTREL /NETWORK_MASK=255.255.0.0 - " _TCPIP> /BROADCAST_MASK=128.30.0.0  K In this example the bradcast mask should read 128.30.255.255, shouldn't it?    Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:53:33 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] 0 Message-ID: <3E822F48.E68A866A@blueyonder.co.uk>   Hans Vlems wrote:  > J > "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> schreef in bericht7 > news:01KSWGPQ7RPU9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... J > > I'm surprised I got so little (actually no) response to my rather long$ > > post involving pseudointerfaces. > > L > > Let me summarise: Has anyone successfully used an interface created with! > > TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE?  > H > Well actually I did post an answer but it did not make it to your ISP. > Here's the text again: > M > The TCPIP stack allows a choice in broadcast masks: all ones or all zeroes. ? > The latter is no longer used. You entered an all zeroes mask:  >  > Interface: WE0A >    IP_Addr: 213.252.154.202   NETWRK: 255.255.255.248   BRDCST:  > 213.252.154.207  >  >  Interface: WEA0A >    IP_Addr: 192.168.1.202     NETWRK: 255.255.255.248   BRDCST:  > 213.252.154.207  > D > The WEA0 interface should have BRDCST set to 192.168.1.207, right?  I Well, if 207 is right, yes, but I always use the logical OR of IP address J and network mask for the broadcast mask. There used to be a section in theL UCX docs describing how to calculate it like this, but I just had a look and5 it doesn't appear to be in the TCP/IP Services docs.    O If the network mask is correct you have a very "small" network with only 3 bits Q for local addresses. Is this what you intend, Phillip? Then set broadcast mask to D 213.252.154.7, and amend allocated IP addresses to fit in with this.3 207 is a very odd bit pattern to use for this IMHO.   Q Or are you playing super smart tricks with broadcasting? If so, I'd appreciate an 
 explaination.    >  > Along the same lines:  >  > TCPIP> SET NOINTERFACE FFA0  > E > TCPIP> SET INTERFACE FFA0 /HOST=KESTREL /NETWORK_MASK=255.255.0.0 - $ > _TCPIP> /BROADCAST_MASK=128.30.0.0 > M > In this example the bradcast mask should read 128.30.255.255, shouldn't it?   % Thats what I'd set it to (see above). < It is also the example from the latest TCp/IP Services docs.  F Of course, I could be an old dinosoar who has missed a few innovations in IP  along the way.    regards,      --   tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk    H * PLEASE NOTE tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk address is NO LONGER VALID *   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:19:25 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] / Message-ID: <3E5D4B6E.7C663B46@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote: H > According to a private communication from VAXman, there is a "feature"I > in newer versions of TCPIP which prevent one from using both interfaces C > simultaneously, apparently (if I understood everything correctly) G > because TCPIP tries to route all stuff out through the default route,     L Well, when you make an outgoing call that matches neither of the interface'sH subnets, how is the TCPIP stack supposed to know what interface to use ?  N I think that you'd have to be looking at the routes database to put some logicM that decides where you route certain traffic. You can't really have 2 default N gateway. You'll have to pick specific networks you route through one modem and send the rest to the other.    In TCPIP> SHOW ROUTES/FULL,  you'll see a1 AN  subnet/mask  * interface_address (as gateway)   , Have not tested this, but perhaps you could:  E AN 24.0.0.0/8  * 10.0.0.15   where 10.0.0.15 would be your IP address  associated with the second (pseudo) interface.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:48:01 +0000 (UTC) , From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis); Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] . Message-ID: <b3jn81$mih$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes in article <01KSWGPQ7RPU9GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> dated Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:14:55 +0100 (MET):J >Let me summarise: Has anyone successfully used an interface created with  >TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE?   Yes, I think so.  I Back in 1996 we configured an Alphastation to use two IP addresses on the E same interface, using pseudointerfaces.  I don't remember many of the I technical details such as the command we used to create the interface.  I G think we created WEA0 and WEB0 and configured both of those (and didn't  configure WE0).   L Since then I have found that the "cluster alias IP" also works for that kindK of thing (even if you don't have a cluster) and is more intuitive to use.     + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:35:05 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: pseudointerface (TCPIP SET [CONFIG] INTERFACE] / Message-ID: <3E5D5D26.45BE9D77@vl.videotron.ca>   G > > TCPIP> SET INTERFACE FFA0 /HOST=KESTREL /NETWORK_MASK=255.255.0.0 - & > > _TCPIP> /BROADCAST_MASK=128.30.0.0  G I have found that if you do not specify the broadcast_mask or broadcast N address, it defines a broadcast address  for you based on the network mask and5 interface address. (the last address in your subnet).    is that a big mistake ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:59:34 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) H Subject: Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language?0 Message-ID: <qaf7a.540$Kx5.421@news.cpqcorp.net>  Y In article <1046235599.53563@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>, "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> writes:   G :Do you have idea retrieve an integer from a longword variable, in RMS?   B   Please see the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for some@   details on how to ask a question -- one- or two-line questions9   can be surprisingly difficult to answer, in particular.   B   If you have the RMS record, it can be overlayed with a structureA   or you can walk through the bytes and use C casts to access the    data.   D   If you use C structures to overlay and to access your data, pleaseB   see the information on padding and pad bytes that is included in   the OpenVMS FAQ.  A   For C coding exampples, please see the OpenVMS FAQ, the OpenVMS >   Freeware, SYS$EXAMPLES:, TCPIP$EXAMPLES:, UCX$EXAMPLES:, and?   other resources around the 'net.  There is RMS example C code B   calling RMS available in the Freeware V5 directory SRH_EXAMPLES.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:46:24 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> H Subject: Re: Question: how to convert longword to integer in C language?' Message-ID: <3E5D8A10.D900AD02@fsi.net>   
 Albert wrote:  >  > Dear All,  > H > Do you have idea retrieve an integer from a longword variable, in RMS?  G RMS is the file system (as opposed to ODS which is the filesystem), not 4 a language. The question as presented has no answer.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:10:36 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 6 Subject: Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword.0 Message-ID: <wse7a.539$Kx5.234@news.cpqcorp.net>  W In article <1046235600.707@sky.aect.cuhk.edu.hk>, "Albert" <kinace@hotmail.com> writes:   M :After opened a RMS file, and get a longword data, but how to get the integer K :value of this data.  Could you advice any idea about retrieving an integer  :from longword data type?   G   Please review the OpenVMS documentation, and particularly the OpenVMS F   Programming Concepts manual and the documentation for the particularC   language in use here.  The calling standard manual may also be of H   some interest, as it defines various native data types.  You will findD   useful information and an introduction to OpenVMS terminology and    constructs in these manuals.  E   A longword is a four-byte integer.  In most OpenVMS C dialects, the G   longword is the long int data type.  Possibly unsigned, possibly not.   E   We (OpenVMS) have carried through the traditional nomenclature into E   the Itanium environment, as well.  Itanium uses different terms for F   various data types, and we (OpenVMS) decided it would be rather lessH   confusing for OpenVMS users if we continued to use traditional OpenVMSC   terminology for data types.  Though where specifically necessary, F   Itanium terminology will be used and the terminology will be denoted(   as being Itanium-specific terminology.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:45:07 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: Question: retrieve integer from longword.' Message-ID: <3E5D89C3.69D95059@fsi.net>   
 Albert wrote:  >  > Dear All,  > N > After opened a RMS file, and get a longword data, but how to get the integerL > value of this data.  Could you advice any idea about retrieving an integer > from longword data type? >  > Thanks so much.   F Huh? A longword *IS* an integer ... unless you mean convert a longword% to a word (possibly with truncation).   G Well, in BASIC, it would be as simple as an assignment statement. Given  that:   $ DECLARE	WORD WORD_INT, LONG LONG_INT .  .  .  WORD_INT = LONG_INT   D ...which may produce warnings at compile time and overflow errors at runtime.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:47:44 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 2 Subject: Re: Rename SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR0 Message-ID: <Qed7a.529$Kx5.471@news.cpqcorp.net>  j In article <1fe424ce.0302200653.7d343c69@posting.google.com>, b.seghers@europe.com (Seghers Bruno) writes:  G :I have installed a system from the CD (VMS 7.3-1) and I want to rename A :SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS0.DIR to SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]SYS7.DIR   @   I'd not try this command, personally.  It might well work, but?   it might not -- CLUSTER_CONFIG and CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN tend to A   write some data files, and -- without digging around -- I'm not @   at all certain if or how these files are tied into the OpenVMS9   installation and the default contents of the SYS0 root.   @   If you do, you can ensure that the backlinks are still correctC   using DFU -- they probably are, but messed-up directory backlinks C   on the core directory files can be an annoyance.  The DFU tool is $   available on the OpenVMS Freeware.  1 :The system is the first one of a futur cluster.    @   I am not certain of the relevence of or the need for this rootD   renaming operation.  SYS0 is the most common root, and the defaultB   root when no boot flags are set.  Is there a specific reason why4   you are moving out of the SYS0 root and into SYS7?  ? :I will boot on the CD again, mount the system disk, rename the C :directory, shutdown the system, modify the boot_osflags to 7,0 and & :reboot the system on the system disk.  D   I would tend to boot the system, and add the new target root usingE   CLUSTER_CONFIG (or CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN), shut down, reboot under the C   new root, and (if appropriate) remove the SYS0 root (again, using E   CLUSTER_CONFIG, or CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN).  This should catch at least :   some of the cases where the root is encoded into a file.  A   I would definitely make sure that your VOTES and EXPECTED_VOTES A   parameters are set correctly, as this environment -- when these @   parameter values are not set correctly -- can potentially lead@   to disk corruptions should you (unintentionally) boot from theB   wrong system root.  Details around the proper settings of these :   system parameter values are included in the OpenVMS FAQ.  E :Does anybody had some problems with this operation. I don't see what  :it could happend but .....   *   But again, why do you want to do this?    ,   Most OpenVMS systems have SYS0, of course.  8 :Sorry for my bad english, it is not my mother language.  B   Last time I was in Belgium, I could just manage to order a beer.B   Now as for my last trip to Vienna, I could also manage to (quiteA   successfully) order my coffee.  And the Austrian beer was good, B   too -- whether or not I might have misspoke the beer order.  :-)C   But I digress.  Your grasp of English is far better than you give =   yourself credit, and well beyond my own beer-ordering-level 0   language skills.  But the beer was good. :-)      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:20:02 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>B Subject: Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?)/ Message-ID: <3E5D1362.9406CCA7@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  >  > > [DO] DEFINE KEY % > > Enter TPU command: SHIFT RIGHT 40 A > > Press the key you want defined  (key sequence of your choice)  > % > A) This can be done in EDT as well:  > 0 > B) It is not the same thing as SET NOTRUNCATE.  N But if the goal is to be able to access data that is beyond the first 80 bytesL displayable on a CRT, then the SHIFT RIGHT , SHIFT LEFT works fine and gives you wnat you want.  N Besides, the ability to use TPU in a decwindows environment makes this a clearN winner for long lines since you need not define keys, you use use the mouse to scroll left and right.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:27:46 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> B Subject: Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?); Message-ID: <01KSWPH5HE169GVT85@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > But if the goal is to be able to access data that is beyond the first 80J > bytes displayable on a CRT, then the SHIFT RIGHT , SHIFT LEFT works fine > and gives you wnat you want.    F As Alan pointed out, there are times when this is not sufficient.  (I G use both shifting and SET NOTRUNCATE in EDT all the time, depending on  I what I am doing.)  For instance, when changing something at the end of a  B line, one might need to know what is at the beginning of the line.  J > Besides, the ability to use TPU in a decwindows environment makes this aI > clear winner for long lines since you need not define keys, you use use & > the mouse to scroll left and right.   H Again, if one needs to see both ends at once, not an option.  And there  is not always DECwindows.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 19:59:12 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)B Subject: Re: SET NOTRUNCATE (was: RE: Upcoming VMS improvements ?)= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302261959.5712253b@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E5D1362.9406CCA7@vl.videotron.ca>...  > Phillip Helbig wrote:  > >  > > > [DO] DEFINE KEY ' > > > Enter TPU command: SHIFT RIGHT 40 C > > > Press the key you want defined  (key sequence of your choice)  > > ' > > A) This can be done in EDT as well:  > > 2 > > B) It is not the same thing as SET NOTRUNCATE. > P > But if the goal is to be able to access data that is beyond the first 80 bytes    ?     *** The goal is to see the whole line in a single view. ***   D The goal is to be able to use the "page down" key to scan a log fileC without adding the obnoxious steps of shifting back and forth every + time you encounter a line that is too long.     N > displayable on a CRT, then the SHIFT RIGHT , SHIFT LEFT works fine and gives > you wnat you want.    E *** No it doesn't. I want to see the whole line in a single view. ***   E In the case from my last job, I had a huge text version of a database E file that I needed to examine. The goal, IIRC, was to be able to scan B values from distant columns in successive rows. The goal was to beD able to, IN A SINGLE VIEW, look at and analyze the values from theseA columns and perhaps even other columns. I don't remember exactly.   C With SET NOTRUNCATE, this would have been piece of cake. A piece of E CHOCOLATE cake. But because the lines were .gt. 255 chars, I couldn't D use EDT and SHIFT LEFT was a royal pain in the ass. I don't rememberF how I worked around this obstacle; but it wasn't fun, I guarantee you.D You have to shift back and forth for every line, refocus, refind theF column, and make sure you are looking at the same line. And these wereC database files that didn't have convenient space boundaries between F fields. They were not designed to be readable. I guarantee you, it wasF a royal pain in the ass. I wish I could take you there, but I can't. IE wish I could remember the details better, but I can't. Maybe I needed D to see more than that from each line. All I can remember now is that- SET NOTRUNCATE would have been great to have.   C I know you may still think that SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT wouldn't F have been that bad. That was what I thought at first, but when I triedB it, somehow it just didn't cut it. I'm sorry, but I don't remember exactly why.  D Don't say it! Don't say it! Don't say, "You could have written a TPUC program". I asked c.o.v. if SET NOTRUNCATE could be emulated in TPU # and the answer was a resounding NO.   D Many of the log files I need to inspect at my current job have lines@ .gt. 132 chars. It is very easy to scan such a log file with SETD NOTRUNCATE. It is a pain in the ass to have to do it with SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT.  C Yes, you could read it with SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT RIGHT, but it's so E much easier with SET NOTRUNCATE, why bother with SHIFT LEFT and SHIFT ? RIGHT? That represents a clear difference. That proves that SET  NOTRUNCATE is superior.   F In fact, SET NOTRUNCATE is so good, I include it in my startup file so as to make it the default.  D Imagine trying to read a book with 256 or 512-byte records on an 80-B or 132-char wide screen and you had to read it with SHIFT LEFT andE SHIFT RIGHT. I think then you'd quickly learn to appreicate the power  of SET NOTRUNCATE.  P > Besides, the ability to use TPU in a decwindows environment makes this a clearP > winner for long lines since you need not define keys, you use use the mouse to > scroll left and right.  E Guess what? I don't have DECwindows. Well, I have the software, but I D can't use it and don't need it anyway. And I don't consider it to be> any advantage to be able to use a mouse. Why is that any good?   Disclaimer: JMNSHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:22:10 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: SYSUAF Proxy 0 Message-ID: <SSc7a.527$Kx5.123@news.cpqcorp.net>  q In article <20030220133109.20326.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:   
 :Dear Sirs  A   Is this question specifically restricted to male readers?  Can  B   I show this question to one of the local (female) engineers? :-)C   If this question was intended to be restricted to those newsgroup E   readers with mismatched chromosomes, I'd suggest using a males-only 1   code to encrypt the text of the message.  :-)     D   Ok.  Sorry.  I'm better now.  It's been a long week already, and IF   just couldn't resist the tangent offered up by that saluation... :-)    7 :Is there a way to use the logical name SYSUAF pointing  :to another server's SYSUAF  ?     Sure, but not without risks.  8 :I am planning to migrate from a AS-2100 to a AS-800, so  B   AlphaServer 2100 and AlphaServer 800, I assume.  Beware of modelD   name abbreviations, as they can confuse things badly.  AlphaServerE   and AlphaStation are often similarly abbreviated, and the platforms E   can be quite different.  There are many similarly-numbered systems, C   and abbreviations of system names tend to increase the ambiguity.   5 :we dont want to copy the SYSUAF right now, and I was 4 :thinking in use the SYSUAF logical name pointing to :other-node::SYSUAF et al !   ?   I first thought of trying this scheme back around 1987 or so, B   and I certainly wasn't the first one.  This scheme mostly works,@   too, save for SET PASSWORD failing because it lacks privileges>   on the remote host, and you can also open up a huge security@   hole if not very careful -- it's probably just as easy to turnA   off system authentication entirely.  (I had used DECnet proxies @   for the remote access from LOGINOUT, and had left SET PASSWORD=   effectively busted.  LOGINOUT operates under a unique name, >   so the proxy is easy.  SET PASSWORD would require opening up1   SYSUAF access to anyone, if proxies were used.)   B   There is far more than SYSUAF involved in the security, as well.>   You will need to serve (or migrate, or merge) RIGHTSLIST andC   potentially also NETPROXY and NET$PROXY.  If you choose to merge, ?   you must be very careful to keep the binary values consistent @   across the RIGHTSLIST identifiers, as the binary values -- not@   the text -- are what are stored everywhere.  If the values are@   not maintained, OpenVMS may grant or deny access unexpectedly.  <   Related Ask The Wizard topics include (1861), (2590), etc.  ;   I would encourage you to copy the four files over, or you ;   will want to use external authentication (LAN Manager and :   Kerberos are available), or you will want to cluster the<   systems together during the migration -- the lattermost is<   likely the easiest and most transparent approach of all of   those proposed.   ;   You could also use the LGI callouts here, but I'd tend to >   use and follow the ACME stuff in V7.3-1 and I'd use existing=   external authentication -- this stuff is easy to implement, 9   so long as security is not a concern.  To get external  @   authentication to work securely is, um, rather more difficult.  <   When posting, please remember to post the OpenVMS version.>   Given that an AlphaServer 800 requires at least V7.1, I will?   assume the system will be running V7.1-2, (better) V7.2-2, or >   (best) V7.3-1.  The FAQ has information on topics related to>   asking questions; details and suggestions which can help you"   get your answer(s) more quickly.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:40:51 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> - Subject: Re: TCPIP and network loss detection ' Message-ID: <3E5D88C3.20D4C140@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > McEagle wrote: > > 1 > > How about PINGing the switch every x minutes?  > K > I was about to ask a very similar question.  PING every X minutes doesn't * > provide instant notification of problem.  / Neither did DECnet's loss of adjacency, FWIW...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:00:01 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>7 Subject: Re: TCPIP Services - not talking on interface? 6 Message-ID: <b3jddh$1mdvu5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  H ""Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>C schreef in bericht news:00A1C069.04CFE75E@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU... E > In article <b3gjk6$1m1a8a$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > >  > >>4 > >How many devices show up if you type SHOW DEV E ? > 
 >  show dev e  > 0 > Device                  Device           Error0 >  Name                   Status           Count0 > EWA0:                   Online               00 > EWB0:                   Online               00 > EWB2:                   Online               00 > EWB3:                   Online               00 > EWB4:                   Online               0 > $  > L > (The console saw both EWA0 and EWB0; I didn't configure WE0 for IP but did > configure WE1. >  > J > >You wrote about a "built-in" adapter, that could be a DE500 as well. If so > J > >you'd see EWA0 and EWB0 devices in which case you need to configure the > >latter for TCPIP. >  > I > Device EWA0:, device type TULIP, is online, network device, device is a 
 > template >     only.  > > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed 0 3 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W = >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size  512  >  > $ show dev ewb0/full > I > Device EWB0:, device type DE500, is online, network device, device is a 
 > template >     only.  > > >     Error count                    0    Operations completed 0 3 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G,W = >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size  512  >  > $ tcpip show interfaceD >                                                            PacketsI > Interface   IP_Addr         Network mask          Receive          Send  MTU  > I >  LO0        127.0.0.1       255.0.0.0                 319           319  4096I >  WE1        64.167.114.250  255.255.255.248             0            41  1500 > $  > I > Is there some TCPIP configuration I need to do outside of TCPIP$CONFIG?  > 1 > >What happens if you configure DECnet phase IV?  > H > I'll have to install it to try that.  (I meant to go with Phase V over IP.) > 	 > -- Alan   H Well, the fact that you added the PCI based ethernet card later does notG automatically make it EWB0. So try and put the UTP wire in the on-board  interface, _or_ configure we0    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:30:03 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS 8 Message-ID: <nb5q5votmo76o1b24sdjsk0hka35uo44m9@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:29:04 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Nic Clews wrote: J >> David, something tells me you've never worked in a situation with armed8 >> personnel, and you need to justify blowing your nose. > J >OK, so HP can't brag about Alpha and VMS being used to obtain those phoneI >conversations from Hussein etc. But HP should be able to brag about "the & >military trusts VMS, shouldn't you ?" >  > L >HP has no problem using NASDAQ as a reference for Tandem. Why don't we hearO >about all the supposed oter stiock exchanges that are supposdly based on VMS ? J > I keep hearing about VMS being widespread use at stock exchanges, yet, I4 >don't hear much about it with real stock exchanges. > N >I know Montreal (which is no longer a stock exchange) had used VMS and dumpedL >it. Not quite the reference site you want.  Are there other stock exchangesL >that are truly committed with VMS, or do they have on foot out of the door,H >testing waters and developing the new applications on other platforms ?  B Some of the government installations do get a little bit of press.E It wasn't that long ago that, iirc, there was a short blurb about the E fed. executive branch investing in hordes of new AlphaServers running 7 OpenVMS.  I think they had something to do with e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:43:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS / Message-ID: <3E5D42EC.56F736A1@vl.videotron.ca>    jlsue wrote:D > Some of the government installations do get a little bit of press.G > It wasn't that long ago that, iirc, there was a short blurb about the G > fed. executive branch investing in hordes of new AlphaServers running 9 > OpenVMS.  I think they had something to do with e-mail.   K HP can't brag about that,. they killed All-in-1 which was used by the white 3 house. Hard to brag about products you have killed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:24:54 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: The End of OpenVMS ' Message-ID: <3E5D8506.908AE9C9@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E5C2529.42464111@fsi.net>...F > > My compliments on having the courage to name names. Your company's. > > manager(s) of marketing should be so bold. > F > VMS Marketing IS so bold -- if you look closer at the list of URLs IH > gave, you'll discover that almost all of my list was created by simplyC > doing a browser search for the word "exchange" on the VMS Success H > Stories website at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/success-stories.html,H > where the VMS Marketing folks have painstakingly gathered testimonials4 > from all the customers who were willing to do one. > H > I know it's been fashionable in this venue to disparage VMS Marketing,4 > but I don't think it's fair to do so in this case.  4 ...except that I *HAVE* to ask the next question(s):  +  1. Have these appeared in the print media?   A  2. If so, when (cite publication names, dates and page numbers)?   9  3. Have these been aired in the broad/narrow-cast media?   A  4. If so, when (cite station/network id., approximate air date)?   ! Perhaps not so bold, after all...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:56:23 -0500 & From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?8 Message-ID: <3t6q5vk3j8ueaqejopmf58rmtf5ev9n3ou@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:23:52 -0400, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Keith Parris wrote:@ >> VMS development were to cease in 2005).  LAN HW support shows2 >> 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005. > I >Pardon my ignorance, but what is such a big deal in suppoprting a faster J >ethernet card ? Is 10Gb ethernet such a radically different beast that itM >requires 3 yuears worth of work to design a new network philosophy, or is it J >just a faster ethernet with tewaking of exsiting drivers to change timing >information ?  D Depends on the engineering standards.  Do they accept the exact sameF standards as the 10/100/1000 e-net standards?  Or are there additional8 extensions (e.g., larger frames, etc) than merely speed?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:41:09 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?. Message-ID: <3E5D1855.884E55A@vl.videotron.ca>   "POWERS, John" wrote: 1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")    Cool tip. Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 14:02:26 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302261402.4c453ab4@posting.google.com>    "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com> wrote in message news:<D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015292EA@reaes2.sema.co.uk>... E > My apologies. I sent this with the wrong subject line before. I had D > not kept any of the original emails so I had to do a google searchG > I looked up 'Feldman' and '=paste', and got the wrong subject thread. > > Here is the same contribution with the correct subject line. >  > F > I normally try to avoid getting involved in these periodic outburstsF > of editor-jihad, (as I said in another thread, people like what theyG > like and you ain't gonna change them). but I noticed in this one that F > Alan asked a question here that nobody has answered. And it is quiteF > easy. I don't know if the the question was a real desire to know, orE > more flame-bait (it just gets impossible to tell when people get so D > passionate), so I'll just treat it naively as a simple request for > information, and reply to it.  > - > - And I hope it doesn't rekindle the fire!   > 2 >  Alan E. Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> wrote: >  > >[loads deleted..]I > >In EDT I can easily write out the paste buffer with ^Z *WRITE FILE.TYP ' > >=PASTE, then *C to get back to work.  > > G > >In EVE I have to do the following: Press Do, Command: SHOW SYS, move H > >the cursor up to the line that says "Insert Here", press enter, pressI > >Do again, Command: WRITE FILE.TYP, press Do *yet* again, Command: show F > >buff, move the cursor to the main buffer, press Return. Is there an# > >eaiser way?  [.. more deleted..]  > E > Yes there is a much easier way. the command is WRITE_FILE. To write G > out the contents of the paste buffer to 'foo.bar' say, withour moving E > buffers, changing the cursor position, the window or anything is to  > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(PASTE_BUFFER,"FOO.BAR")  > E > In fact, if you're just trying to write out a part of a file in the F > midst of an edit, you don't even need to put it in the paste buffer.E > You can just select the range, then without the paste sequence (the F > kp6 + gold kp6) you can write it straight out from the selected area > with the command > DO1 > Command: TPU WRITE_FILE(SELECT_RANGE,"FOO.BAR")  > G > This can be useful if it is a huge range, and you don't want to waste 0 > time with an unnecessary cut and re-paste job. > G > HTH. I guess it is unlikely to help you often, but on those occasions E > when you are forced into using TPU it is there for you. In any case F > it will help other readers of the newsgroup who weren't aware of it. >  > Cheers, John  1 Thanks for the cool tip! I tried it and it works!    Alan E. Feldman    >  > ; > _________________________________________________________ D > This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the J > individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are G > solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of   > SchlumbergerSema. J > If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have receivedM > this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing,  2 > or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. > < > If you have received this email in error please notify theA > SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600. ; > _________________________________________________________    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:20:32 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?2 Message-ID: <UDudne40z9xY1sCjXTWc3w@metrocast.net>  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0302251203.5debe97a@posting.google.com... 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message . news:<NdKcnSpeTebkdsejXTWc3g@metrocast.net>... > > what I find a bit G > > ominous is that there's no indication of any *specific* VMS-related D > > development planned after early 2005 (yes, there's the "on-going enhancments G > > blah blah blah" boilerplate, but that doesn't exactly reassure me).  > 9 > Are you really looking at the latest Roadmap? (Feb. 19)   I The dates in the lower left-hand corner of the .ppt slides say 26-Feb-03.      A V8.xH > New-Feature release beyond 8.2 is shown with a late-2005 release date.  / I saw a V8.x release, but it was dated H1 2005.   E >  The Unix Portability Initiative shows several significant features  > slated for late-2005 release,   F I didn't see specific dates for these, and the slides were not exactlyL consistent in placing features at precise points along the time line, so had> suspected that they were part of the V8.x release noted above.  (  including fork() (and I know that's notF > an easy one; it wouldn't make sense to even even think about that if) > VMS development were to cease in 2005).   ) Unless it was part of the COE commitment.      LAN HW support shows1 > 10-gigabit Ethernet in the latter half of 2005.   I I don't remember any *specified dates* beyond H1 2005 (so either I missed L that one or you're interpolating from what as I've already noted is a pretty unreliable graphic time-line).     There's a new release G > of TCP/IP beyond 5.5 shown for the second half of 2005.  ACMS 5.1 and . > DECforms 4.0 appear in the 2nd half of 2005.  I Well, at least the latter *does* have a specified date, and it's H1 2005. 4 So again you've been mislead by the sloppy graphics.   > F > We know there will be new-hardware support, both for new systems andH > new peripherals.  We know there will be bug fixes.  Based on what's in > the Roadmap,  G I.e., based on generalizations about continuing development rather than  specific feature commitments.    > what has been added recently,   K Yup - IIRC the 8.x release wasn't there the last time I looked, plus likely E a lot of the detailed work you listed.  But it still doesn't push the J specific feature dates beyond H1 2005 (which *was* the last date mentioned the last time I looked).    and the many right-facing? > arrows indicating continuing work beyond the end of the slide  > timescale,  E An even weaker 'commitment' than the generalizations.  Are you really . serious about the weight that should be given?  ;  I think there's a clear pattern present that indicates VMS 0 > development will be continuing long past 2005.  D Well, I may even agree:  there's a clear pattern suggesting that VMSD development will continue beyond 2005, but with absolutely no statedJ commitment to do so in any substantive manner.  With some companies with aJ record of playing straight with their customers that might even be enough.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:20:50 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?2 Message-ID: <XeWdnX83OtdK1sCjXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  = "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> wrote in message ' news:3E5C67C8.6040903@StarLet.SPB.RU... B > Any plans to improving RMS? In partuclary, remove using DLM when' > multistreaming mode is set for a FAB!   I If you mean to use RMS-internal mechanisms to cut down on lock-management H overhead (because it's supposedly all intra-process), I rather doubt it.I Not only would that be a fairly major and error-prone addition to the RMS F code, but it would have to be special-cased such that if the file were> *also* shared with other processes the DLM was used after all.  I If current DLM overhead is really a problem for you in this special case, J managing your own cache using block I/O might be a way around it (though IL wouldn't advise it if you're dealing with anything but sequential files, and preferably unstructured ones).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:21:06 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?2 Message-ID: <dVCdnQFy48501sCjXTWcow@metrocast.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-2502030801120001@user-uinj4k9.dialup.mindspring.com...@ > In article <NdKcnSpeTebkdsejXTWc3g@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"! > <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:    ...      what I find a bit F > >ominous is that there's no indication of any *specific* VMS-relatedC > >development planned after early 2005 (yes, there's the "on-going  enhancments F > >blah blah blah" boilerplate, but that doesn't exactly reassure me). > H > The obvious (and correct) explanation is that VMS Engineering does not+ > schedule specific work so far in advance.   J I guess that must be a recent development, then, since close to a year agoI they were scheduling close to a year farther out (i.e., the last specific J dates in the schedule haven't advanced since about the time the merger was
 consummated).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:12:10 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302261612.615066a@posting.google.com>  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<GYfl9WPUe6XC@eisner.encompasserve.org>... [...]  >  > Alan,  > < > 	Also you may wish to use this TPU procedure as it saves a> > 	bunch of typing , does checking, cleanup etc.  It is one of > 	Chris Yoder's extensions. > 0 > procedure eve_write_selected (write_file_name) >  [... procedure omitted ...]  >  > endprocedure;  >  >  > 	Typical usage:  >  >   DO >   Command: wr sel a.a  > 9 > 	Writes the selected region out to a file called "a.a".  > 	 > 				Rob    I tried it with   1      eve f:login.com /comm=eve_write_selected.tpu    and it worked! Thanks.   Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:22:12 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?< Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302261622.747a6b0@posting.google.com>  k hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) wrote in message news:<p337a.449$Xt4.234@news.cpqcorp.net>... @ > In article <b096a4ee.0302251945.472897c3@posting.google.com>, 2 > spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > ! > >When someone can ... show me a B > >way to do case-independent Find commands using uppercase search > >strings....       > I > My TPU based editor, which I modestly call "CHARLIE-EDIT", can do this.  >  > 
 > COMMANDS >  >   SET  >  >     SEARCH > @ >         SEARCH {BEGIN|END|EXACT|GENERAL|PATTERN|PHRASE|STRING} > 1 >             Controls various search parameters.  > P >             BEGINS/END causes a successful  search  to  position the curser atJ >             the beginning or at the end of the search pattern or string.   OK. Just like EDT. Good.  P >             EXACT causes search to be case sensitive; GENERAL causes upper and8 >             lower case letters to be considered equal.  E OK. Does GENERAL work as advertised regardless of the case you use to C type in the search string? Can I type in STRING and it's still case  insensitive? That's the key.  P >             PATTERN sets searching  to  PATTERN  mode.  See the PATTERN-SEARCH. >             help topic for more information.   Can't do that here.   P >             PHRASE sets search to look for the specified phrase, even if it isE >             spaced or punctuated differently, or if it spans lines.    Cool.   6 >             STRING sets searching to it normal mode.   Is that normal EVE mode?   How can I get this program?    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------  6 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?@ Message-ID: <memo.20030227004043.320A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>  J In article <j9lpAF9qzL$e@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  D > In article <memo.20030225175555.1776A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>, = > duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) writes:  > >    > >  Don Sykes wrote: L > >  > I often hear the "EDT is better" stuff, but I can't think of a singleK > >  > thing that EDT can do that I can't do with my customized TPU editor.  > > J > > One useful thing about EDT is that it can be used (in line mode) on a O > > minimal boot (e.g. where SYLOGICALS.COM has errors so that you have to use  N > > the SET /STARTUP OPA0: trick to get in to fix your mess). EDT can be used N > > on the "glass teletype" mode console - TPU wants at least VT100 emulation. > K > But you have to learn a separate set of commands to use EDT in that mode. = > TECO does it with the same commands as full screen editing.  > N However TECO is not (for most people) very user friendly. I have used TECO on O occasion to handle weirdly formatted files that nothing else would touch but I  M would not recommend it for normal use. As with Unix, TECO commands look like  O the result of line noise on a bad modem. With EDT basic editing is very simple  O even in line mode - and most of the line mode commands are also usable in full  F screen mode (e.g. the s/stringone/stringtwo/%W command to replace all O occurrences of stringone with stringtwo in the entire file). Also even in line   mode EDT has HELP.  P Also I have been using EDT so long (from version 1 on RSX11M) that I have a lot  of its commands memorised.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 16:41:24 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0302261641.2b4252f6@posting.google.com>   f David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote in message news:<68vp5vsfv5m10nccu9hrtavivl1tnth37q@4ax.com>...P > On 26 Feb 2003 07:08:50 -0800, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote: > B > >On the rare occasions where EDT does not suffice, then I'll use5 > >EVE/TPU or write some DCL. What's wrong with that?  > Q > Alan, I agree with many of the specific things you mention, such as lack of SET R > NOTRUNCATE -- in fact, having almost forgotten about this feature of EDT, I wentP > back to something I did last week with TPU where I found myself going left andQ > right to look at long records, and now I remember how nice that feature is when  > you need it!  ! No editor should ship without it!   L > I personally avoided TPU until an EDT keypad emulation was provided by theM > vendor. Prior to that, folks kept telling me to use it but without a keypad Q > style I was familiar with I wasn't willing to do it, and I didn't like carrying B > around the "baggage" of the EVEPLUS (I think?) keypad emulation.  
 Good move.  Q > When the EDT-style kaypad was introduced, I took another look and found that -- O > with a fairly simple initialization file -- I could use 95% of what I used in Q > EDT without having to think twice about it. The two features which I found most R > atractive about TPU, and which keep me with it today, are (1) support for largerO > terminal windows, and (2) split-screen editing. IN fact, I would say that (2) Q > without (1) would be awkward. But, I operate with a standard 35-line window and Q > find that I can be productive working with two files at once in a split screen; R > some of my associates use larger windows, up to 70 lines for one guy I know. But4 > for me, 35 lines is what I've found to be optimal.  E I don't need split screen editing much. And even in Windows, I rarely @ need two windows open side by side. But I do fire up EVE on rare occasions for just this reason.   N > Your note has reminded me that there are cases when I will prefer to use EDTP > (again), especially in dealing with very long files; working on a non-terminalP > window, e.g. OPA0 in MINimum boot; and handling files with records longer than* > 132 columns. Those all make sense to me. > R > It would seem to me that a person's preference for one over the other might wellR > depend on what he or she works with most often. For me, the "special cases" thatR > EDT handles best come up infrequently, while every day, multiple times, I have aM > need to work with two or more files at once, and being able to display them Q > simultaneously in a large window is extremelt useful. So, for everyday editing, R > I'll stick with TPU, and use EDT (or TECO, Larry, I still have a few cases where, > that works best!) when it is most helpful.  ? One thing I haven't mentioned yet that I find EVE useful for is E pasting code from this group into the editor buffer. For some reason, D when I do it with EDT, only the first few lines make it. Does anyone? know why? (I'm using SmarTerm 9.0a and telnet to my VMS boxes.)   7 > For info, my small init file with which I started is:  >  > ! Minimal EVE$INIT.EVE > set keypad edt > set cursor bound > tpu set(mouse,off) > set noexit attribute check > Q > I "carry" a copy of this with me to any new system I work on, even temporarily, P > in performing my support job. In the years since I've been using TPU I've alsoC > develped a few things I find very useful into a TPU command file, O > TPU$COMMAND.TPU, which I put on the systems which are my "home systems". I'veuP > limited it to the most essential stuff for my purposes. I have avoided sectionP > files and don't believe, in general, that most users should fool with one. ForN > information, here are some of the generally handy functions I have in my TPUM > command file (names only). Note that one of the things I do is overload therF > SHIFT-KP8 key, disabling the Fill function, because I too many times9 > accidentally "filled" a DCL procedure I was working on.2  D Well, one advantage of EDT is that it is easy to recover from thingsC like inadvertent "fills" by using *QUIT/SAVE; then edit the journale< file, usually removing the last line or last few lines; thenB EDIT/RECOVER. You can do that with EVE but I haven't tried it in aE very long time (you must first set it to use keystroke journaling, of B course) but when I did try it it was much more difficult. I forget exactly why.   > procedure toggle_width' >     ! Toggle width between 80 and 132i >  > procedure eve_mouse_on >  > procedure eve_mouse_offe >  > procedure toggle_eve_mouse- >     ! Toggle between mouse on and mouse offA > N > ! FIX_CRLFS.TPU - Routine to turn CRLFs into line breaks and remove leading   > !       CRs and trailing CRLFs > !e > procedure eve_fix_crlfsn >  > procedure eve_remove_nulls > $ > procedure eve_flag_selected_regionE > !* adds "flag_string" to beginning of each line in selected region.6 > & > procedure eve_unflag_selected_region > C > flag_string := ".";     !* Define string to use for "flag/unflag"s > eve_set_keypad_edt;e > eve_set_cursor_bound;s! > eve_set_noexit_attribute_check;  > eve_set_scroll_margins(2,2); > eve_mouse_off;F > define_key('copy_text("$!             . ")',key_name('C',shift_key),0 >         'EVE INSERT_COMMENT','eve$user_keys');K > define_key('copy_text("c     . ")',key_name('F',ctrl_modified,shift_key), 8 >         'EVS INSERT_FORTRAN_COMMENT','eve$user_keys');: > define_key('eve_fill_paragraph',key_name('F',shift_key),0 >         'EVE FILL_PARAGRAPH','eve$user_keys');7 > define_key('eve_next_buffer',key_name('N',shift_key),e- >         'EVE NEXT_BUFFER','eve$user_keys');O6 > define_key('eve_one_window',key_name('1',shift_key),, >         'EVE ONE_WINDOW','eve$user_keys');7 > define_key('eve_two_windows',key_name('2',shift_key), - >         'EVE TWO_WINDOWS','eve$user_keys');nG > define_key('message("KP8 (FILL) disabled!")',key_name(kp8,shift_key),l. >         'EVE NO_OPERATION','eve$user_keys');8 > define_key('toggle_eve_mouse',key_name('M',shift_key),* >         'Toggle Mouse','eve$user_keys');4 > define_key('toggle_width',key_name('W',shift_key),* >         'Toggle Width','eve$user_keys');) > eve$add_word_separators("()[]{}#,;:.");[K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------sK > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comnK > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)tK > -------------------------------------------------------------------------s  $ I'll check this out later. Thanks!!!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:22:03 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) ( Subject: Re: Upcoming VMS improvements ?: Message-ID: <%fh7a.50680$F%.2776048@twister.austin.rr.com>  / Alan E. Feldman (spamsink2001@yahoo.com) wrote:n : A : One thing I haven't mentioned yet that I find EVE useful for isfG : pasting code from this group into the editor buffer. For some reason, F : when I do it with EDT, only the first few lines make it. Does anyoneA : know why? (I'm using SmarTerm 9.0a and telnet to my VMS boxes.)  :   $ Try "set terminal/hostsync" first...     $ help set terminal/hostsync     SETp       TERMINAL         /HOSTSYNCo             /HOSTSYNCg           /NOHOSTSYNC (default)0  H        Controls whether system transmission from the terminal is stoppedA        (by generating a Ctrl/S) when the input buffer is full and0G        resumed (by generating a Ctrl/Q) when the input buffer is empty.m    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:26:21 -0500 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com>o7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately + Message-ID: <3E5D4D1D.C2035AD8@adldata.com>e   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > c > In article <b3ipah$1n8ga2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: = > > In article <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>,-- > >       ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003) writes:1 > >> HI All, > >>T > >> I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help inM > >> a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info.i > >> > > A > > PA is a pretty big state.  I sure wouldn't want to commute to C > > Pittsburgh from here.  Think you could narrow it down a little?c > B > And does VMS/AS400 mean they want to convert from VMS to AS400 ?C > This newsgroup is divided into people who would not care for that-C > sort of a project and those who would jump at the chance to prove. > that "VMS is dead".>  < He didn't say it was VMS->OS/400. It might be the other way!G Either direction can be 'interesting' if it involves display management  and database conversion.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 00:41:01 GMTs7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)o7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately - Message-ID: <x8d7a.248369$2H6.3912@sccrnsc04>   Q In article <3E5D4D1D.C2035AD8@adldata.com>, sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> writes:n >Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >> td >> In article <b3ipah$1n8ga2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:> >> > In article <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>,. >> >       ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003) writes:
 >> >> HI All,l >> >> U >> >> I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help intN >> >> a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info. >> >>y >> >B >> > PA is a pretty big state.  I sure wouldn't want to commute toD >> > Pittsburgh from here.  Think you could narrow it down a little? >> uC >> And does VMS/AS400 mean they want to convert from VMS to AS400 ?bD >> This newsgroup is divided into people who would not care for thatD >> sort of a project and those who would jump at the chance to prove >> that "VMS is dead". >m= >He didn't say it was VMS->OS/400. It might be the other way!mH >Either direction can be 'interesting' if it involves display management >and database conversion.o  N Another explanation may be that both systems co-exist in the same shop; I knowO of a large, private firm in the US that has two major applications on VMS *and*y* AS400, which are largely written in COBOL.    A _________________________________________________________________o0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"p   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 18:22:03 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0302261822.194071f0@posting.google.com>   V sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> wrote in message news:<3E5D4D1D.C2035AD8@adldata.com>... > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > e > > In article <b3ipah$1n8ga2$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:u? > > > In article <20030226085649.24053.00000172@mb-cd.aol.com>,d/ > > >       ccna2003@aol.com (Ccna2003) writes:, > > >> HI All, > > >>V > > >> I know of a company that is looking for a Senior VMS / AS400 coboler to help inO > > >> a project in PA. The need is immediate. Please contact me for more info.e > > >> > > >aC > > > PA is a pretty big state.  I sure wouldn't want to commute tofE > > > Pittsburgh from here.  Think you could narrow it down a little?  > > D > > And does VMS/AS400 mean they want to convert from VMS to AS400 ?E > > This newsgroup is divided into people who would not care for that_E > > sort of a project and those who would jump at the chance to provef > > that "VMS is dead".t > > > He didn't say it was VMS->OS/400. It might be the other way!I > Either direction can be 'interesting' if it involves display management  > and database conversion.  < I hope that is the case, unfortunately I have worked in both9 environments, and believe me, either way it will not be a4 picnic w/os400 ...   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:38:29 +0000 (UTC)s- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase).7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediatelyg( Message-ID: <b3jtn5$73f$1@pcls4.std.com>  - In article <x8d7a.248369$2H6.3912@sccrnsc04>,u8 Bradford J. Hamilton <brad@.homeportal.2wire.net> wrote:9 > In article <3E5D4D1D.C2035AD8@adldata.com>, sol gongolai > <sol@adldata.com> writes:   @ > > He didn't say it was VMS->OS/400. It might be the other way!K > > Either direction can be 'interesting' if it involves display managementt > > and database conversion. > C > Another explanation may be that both systems co-exist in the sameLD > shop; I know of a large, private firm in the US that has two majorF > applications on VMS *and* AS400, which are largely written in COBOL.  H Yet another explanation is that the guy is some boneheaded recruiter whoG is actually looking for an MVS and OS/400 COBOL programmer.  If there'siA one good thing to be said about the name OpenVMS vs. VMS, OpenVMSd1 certainly is less likely to be confused with MVS.o   -brian.t -- pF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----H This counter is [6,177,399,753] times as pointless as a real one.  -- K.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 04:46:15 GMTQ# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)-7 Subject: Re: VMS AS400 Coboler needed in PA immediately-0 Message-ID: <rKg7a.545$rs5.221@news.cpqcorp.net>  X In article <b3jtn5$73f$1@pcls4.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:I :Yet another explanation is that the guy is some boneheaded recruiter whoNH :is actually looking for an MVS and OS/400 COBOL programmer.  If there'sB :one good thing to be said about the name OpenVMS vs. VMS, OpenVMS2 :certainly is less likely to be confused with MVS.  J   Wander over to google and enter the string OpenMVS -- yes, OpenMVS -- in   the search box.t  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:42:27 -0600F From: brandon@dalsemi.comi Subject: VMS Backup solutions01 Message-ID: <03022615422724@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>g  o Our "newly" formed operations group is looking at enterprise backup solutions for our NT, UNIX, and VMS groups.,   Our VMS setup:  , GS160, 4 each TL89-2 (35/70), 520-GB of data   Our VMS solution is to use BACKUP with DCL command files.  Automated using ISAM files and scripts with logging, e-mail, reporting,z WWW, paging, etc.  All in-house created and maintained.  I have worked with SLS in the past and incorporated many of those+ concepts into the in-house backup solution.P  o We keep our tapes at a 95% to 98% capacity so we make efficient use of our tapes, no multi-volume tapes either.m   Unlike the NT or UNIX group, the VMS group has maintained a stable backup solution incorporated with DR practices and policies.7   I am greatly concerned with this new drive to centralize the backup solution onto a UNIX platform.  They want to NFS mount drivesI% and backup the data, etc.  Gasp-Argh!e   (?) I would like to know if anyone has a similar environment (NT, UNIX, VMS) that has a successful enterprise solution and what  they are using.(   (?) Any horror stories?   . (?) What about Disaster Recovery implications?       John Brandon VMS Systems Administratoro Dallas Semiconductor john.brandon@dalsemi.com 972.371.4172 wkm 972.371.4003 fxh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:24:27 -0500e! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>m" Subject: Re:  VMS Backup solutionsK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BCD@rlghncst964.usps.gov>e  C Our "newly" formed operations group is looking at enterprise backups	 solutionsd! for our NT, UNIX, and VMS groups.,   John Berandon wrote" >i >o >Our VMS setup:o > - >GS160, 4 each TL89-2 (35/70), 520-GB of datas >lK >Our VMS solution is to use BACKUP with DCL command files.  Automated using  >ISAMn3 >files and scripts with logging, e-mail, reporting, L >WWW, paging, etc.  All in-house created and maintained.  I have worked with >SLS+ >in the past and incorporated many of thosew, >concepts into the in-house backup solution. >yK >We keep our tapes at a 95% to 98% capacity so we make efficient use of ouro% >tapes, no multi-volume tapes either.u > J >Unlike the NT or UNIX group, the VMS group has maintained a stable backup6 >solution incorporated with DR practices and policies. >eD >I am greatly concerned with this new drive to centralize the backup solution5 >onto a UNIX platform.  They want to NFS mount drivese& >and backup the data, etc.  Gasp-Argh! >dH >(?) I would like to know if anyone has a similar environment (NT, UNIX, VMS)3 >that has a successful enterprise solution and whato >they are using. >o >(?) Any horror stories? >n/ >(?) What about Disaster Recovery implications?u >l >e >x
 >John Brandonw >VMS Systems Administrator >Dallas Semiconductoro >john.brandon@dalsemi.como >972.371.4172 wk >972.371.4003 fx   John,   	 BAD IDEA.t  I If you back up VMS to U**X, you lose file attributes, ACEs and much, mucho more.  Have a look at ABS from HP.  n% VMS server, VMS, NT and U**X clients.a  = The learning curve is a bit steep but once you get it running  it's rock-solid.  0 Feel free to give me a ring if you want to talk. ========================  William W. Webb - EMS Operations) OpenVMS Systems Support - USPS DSSC Annexe, 4730 Hargrove Road, Raleigh, NC 27616-2874  > 919.325.7500 x4186  <FirstInitialLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2003 17:22:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)<! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutions-3 Message-ID: <R+0rkNB3qaU1@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  M In article <03022615422724@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, brandon@dalsemi.com writes:-   > I am greatly concerned with this new drive to centralize the backup solution onto a UNIX platform.  They want to NFS mount drivese' > and backup the data, etc.  Gasp-Argh!   F Point out to them that backing up data is an annoying extra procedure.  0 The real goal is being able to restore the data.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 01:53:22 GMTb+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>o! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsn2 Message-ID: <BA82AF92.5126%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  C On 2/26/03 1:42 PM, in article 03022615422724@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com,t2 "brandon@dalsemi.com" <brandon@dalsemi.com> wrote:  O > Our "newly" formed operations group is looking at enterprise backup solutionsc# > for our NT, UNIX, and VMS groups.e >  > Our VMS setup: > . > GS160, 4 each TL89-2 (35/70), 520-GB of data > L > Our VMS solution is to use BACKUP with DCL command files.  Automated using9 > ISAM files and scripts with logging, e-mail, reporting, M > WWW, paging, etc.  All in-house created and maintained.  I have worked withe0 > SLS in the past and incorporated many of those- > concepts into the in-house backup solution.N > L > We keep our tapes at a 95% to 98% capacity so we make efficient use of our& > tapes, no multi-volume tapes either. > K > Unlike the NT or UNIX group, the VMS group has maintained a stable backupg7 > solution incorporated with DR practices and policies.g > N > I am greatly concerned with this new drive to centralize the backup solution6 > onto a UNIX platform.  They want to NFS mount drives' > and backup the data, etc.  Gasp-Argh!k > N > (?) I would like to know if anyone has a similar environment (NT, UNIX, VMS)4 > that has a successful enterprise solution and what > they are using.o >  > (?) Any horror stories?' > 0 > (?) What about Disaster Recovery implications? >  >  >  > John Brandon > VMS Systems Administratoro > Dallas Semiconductor > john.brandon@dalsemi.com > 972.371.4172 wko > 972.371.4003 fx   Boy you hit my nail on the head!  H Unlike Legato's Networker and Veritas' NetBackup, which only provide VMSK backup clients, and still have some problems dealing with native VMS backup-L Savesets,  is my company called MTI (we used to make the old CIQBA - CI QbusL adapter, and Stingrays - Alternative to HSC/RA storage from Digital) who hasJ a complete Enterprise Backup solution for VMS As your Backup media server,J and All flavors of UNIX,Linux, Windows 95,98,ME and NT,2K,XP, Netware, andC even OS/2 as clients (as well as VMS). It can optionally manage the7F enterprise backup from VMS (Command line or CDE/Motif/X GUI) or from a windows NT/2K/XP workstation.f  I It offers native backup formats for VMS and UNIX so the tapes can be usedrJ directly on the target system for disaster recovery. The learning curve isJ very short, and does not require special training other than a hour or two
 introduction.o  8 Compared to Veritas Netbackup, it can save you many $$$.> Compared to Legato Networker, it can boost backup performance.   The software supports :i> Compaq/HP SAN libraries or any other third party SCSI library.# Just about every tape media format.h Backup Multiplexing. Multi-streaming Backups.  User controlled client restores." Disaster recovery for all clients. Software data set compression.  Automatic and manual scheduling.  C I would be more than happy to direct you to some of my customers as 
 reference.  G For more information, please visit http://support.mti.com and press the:I OpenVMS button, call me at (800) 999.9684 or direct at (714) 481-5535, orE  send email to VMSSupport@mti.com  I Normally I would not post an ad for the company I work for on this forum, " But you requested the information.  7 I beg the forgiveness of my fellow comp.os.vms posters.2   Jeff Cameron MTI Incorporated Enterprise Storage Solutions 14661 Franklin Ave.t Tustin, CA 92780 http://www.mti.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:01:17 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutionsZ' Message-ID: <3E5D8D8D.B68CB9CD@fsi.net>u   Jeff Cameron wrote:M > [snip]  C Well, alright, since you opened the Pandorda's box, are you talkinge4 about the followup product to OASIS and TapeControl?  F Like you, I wrote (2 years' work, 4400 lines of DCL) a backup solutionH using OASIS and TapeControl with a STK-9710 jukebox. That outfit laid me5 off three years ago. My code is still running, AFAIK.E   -- T David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:17:01 GMTi+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> ! Subject: Re: VMS Backup solutions 2 Message-ID: <BA82DF4C.514B%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  C On 2/26/03 8:01 PM, in article 3E5D8D8D.B68CB9CD@fsi.net, "David J.I( Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   > Jeff Cameron wrote:i	 >> [snip]  > E > Well, alright, since you opened the Pandorda's box, are you talkinge6 > about the followup product to OASIS and TapeControl? > H > Like you, I wrote (2 years' work, 4400 lines of DCL) a backup solutionJ > using OASIS and TapeControl with a STK-9710 jukebox. That outfit laid me7 > off three years ago. My code is still running, AFAIK.    David,  H Yep! While OASIS/RLM and TapeControl are still running at many VMS sitesK under VMS 7.3-1 in Homogeneous VMS SAN environments, the NetBackup Softwareh8 from MTI also runs with OpenMedia in Heterogeneous SANs.  H I failed to mention that the backup solution is called NetBackup and wasD around long before and is not to be confused with Veritas NetBackup.   Jeff  I PS Even though it is a little gratifying, it is also a bit scary when yourL realize that some of your code will probably out live you. Dont' you agree?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:38:54 -0500r& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID58 Message-ID: <vj5q5vsu2eg1rel3b4g4dqggv3rfcopvjm@4ax.com>  7 On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:32:14 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"a <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  
 >jlsue wrote:L  H >> Wait 'til you get to use and EVA.  The way that Vraid is done for you9 >> will make all that additional configuration work - ande7 >> application/database performance work - go bye, bye.e >> e1 >> Everyone uses all spindles - thus no hotspots.* >> aE >> You get a slowdown in the I/O, just add more spindles and, ta da!,s& >> everyone's performance is improved. >> eF >> It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring. >LF >I tend to view that rather like the choice between burning garbage or= >burying it in a landfill. The bad stuff has to go SOMEplace.n >   @ Hey, anytime the (sub)systems can eliminate the need for furtherD downtime for systems or apps while we move things about on the disksB to alleviate bottlenecks, I'm all for it..... Assuming, of course,@ that the technology works, which it certainly does in this case.    I >Rather like outsourcing: that heat may be taken off of you, but how muchtG >do you trust those upon whom the burden now falls? ...and how will youE9 >respond should that trust be given and then be breached?u  F I consider it more like automatic job schedulers.  I no longer need toA schedule things myself every day and watch the jobs' status.  ThetD scheduler does it all for me and informs me when there are problems.  C Or a good Service Level Management tool (dare I say framework) thatcB watches all my devices and applications and alerts me when there'sB trouble.  At one customer site, this saved them from the oodles ofF time their people spent slogging through the Windows Event Logs on allC their servers looking for errors (yep, that's what they were doing,e constantly throughout the day)./   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:17:20 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID52 Message-ID: <keGcnfVDH_6Y1sCjXTWcoQ@metrocast.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E5C272E.EFFEA73E@fsi.net...  > jlsue wrote:   ...   G > > It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring.g >lG > I tend to view that rather like the choice between burning garbage orh> > burying it in a landfill. The bad stuff has to go SOMEplace. ><J > Rather like outsourcing: that heat may be taken off of you, but how muchH > do you trust those upon whom the burden now falls? ...and how will you: > respond should that trust be given and then be breached?  I Don't you think that you really ought to learn something about EVA before-* presuming to voice such opinions about it?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:30:56 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5' Message-ID: <3E5D8670.98A671F1@fsi.net>o   jlsue wrote: > 9 > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:32:14 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"t  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >jlsue wrote:o > J > >> Wait 'til you get to use and EVA.  The way that Vraid is done for you; > >> will make all that additional configuration work - andc9 > >> application/database performance work - go bye, bye.u > >>3 > >> Everyone uses all spindles - thus no hotspots.  > >>G > >> You get a slowdown in the I/O, just add more spindles and, ta da!,l( > >> everyone's performance is improved. > >>H > >> It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring. > >aH > >I tend to view that rather like the choice between burning garbage or? > >burying it in a landfill. The bad stuff has to go SOMEplace.s > >D > B > Hey, anytime the (sub)systems can eliminate the need for furtherF > downtime for systems or apps while we move things about on the disksD > to alleviate bottlenecks, I'm all for it..... Assuming, of course,B > that the technology works, which it certainly does in this case. > K > >Rather like outsourcing: that heat may be taken off of you, but how muchaI > >do you trust those upon whom the burden now falls? ...and how will youe; > >respond should that trust be given and then be breached?  > H > I consider it more like automatic job schedulers.  I no longer need toC > schedule things myself every day and watch the jobs' status.  ThelF > scheduler does it all for me and informs me when there are problems.  E Ever heard the expression, "I trust 'em as far as I can throw 'em"? InG doubt I could throw a consultant or a company very far. I can whip CDs,0H diskettes, even DLTs quite a ways. Yeah, I'll trust software before I'll trust outsourcing firms.  E > Or a good Service Level Management tool (dare I say framework) that"D > watches all my devices and applications and alerts me when there'sD > trouble.  At one customer site, this saved them from the oodles ofH > time their people spent slogging through the Windows Event Logs on allE > their servers looking for errors (yep, that's what they were doing,>! > constantly throughout the day).h  H ..., likely for the lack of a tool like DCL (or perl, or whatever) whichF could have done it for them. Then again, they like their pointy-clicky toys...e   -- a David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/j   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:33:34 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a$ Subject: Re: Volume set across RAID5' Message-ID: <3E5D870E.50790DA3@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3E5C272E.EFFEA73E@fsi.net...0 > > jlsue wrote: >  > ...o > I > > > It's just simply amazing the simplification that the EVA can bring.7 > >AI > > I tend to view that rather like the choice between burning garbage oro@ > > burying it in a landfill. The bad stuff has to go SOMEplace. > > L > > Rather like outsourcing: that heat may be taken off of you, but how muchJ > > do you trust those upon whom the burden now falls? ...and how will you< > > respond should that trust be given and then be breached? > K > Don't you think that you really ought to learn something about EVA befored, > presuming to voice such opinions about it?  F My point was that the management effort *HAS* to go someplace. You canE either manage the storage farm, or manage the stuff that manages your-H storage farm for you, but either way, you're gonna have your hand in the1 pie. The question is just how deep, when and why.d   TANSTAAFL, as they say.k   --   David J. DachteraE dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/z   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 03:58:16 GMTs# From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)oG Subject: Re: What makes the VMS port to Itanium/IPF/whatever difficult?h0 Message-ID: <s1g7a.544$Kx5.422@news.cpqcorp.net>  [ In article <cs9fzqb2jby.fsf@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> writes: & :Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: :/ :> Alan E. Feldman wrote:vH :> > A Unix Admin co-worker asked me what the big deal was about portingJ :> > VMS to Itanium. He says that NetBSD has been ported to numerous chipsK :> > and that it's no big deal. I told him that I didn't really know. Would3J :> > any of the chip experts reading this care to comment? What is it that :> > makes this port difficult?   D   Please visit Google, and look up the discussions back when OpenVMS   was ported from VAX to Alpha.q    1 :> VMS was never intended for multi-platform and:%8 :>    - uses several constructs which was present in the> :>      original VAX hardware and need to be emulated on other :>      architectures   F   OpenVMS assumed the hardware would provide certain features, such asF   memory interlocks.  Each platform implements this stuff differently.H   Some not at all.  If things get really ugly with the (lack of) certainD   hardware capabilities, you have to read Knuth or similar tome, and&   implement software-based interlocks.  = :>    - VMS still has a lot of Macro-32 and Bliss code (while," :>      NetBSD is probably 100% C)D :This last point is interesting. Is this also true of the IA64 port?  =   Yes, we need Macro32 and Bliss compilers, in addition to C.D  C   If a compiler can be implemented, it would not seem reasonable to2E   rewrite and re-debug large tracts of code that already work -- thisRD   short of some overriding business or technical reason, of course. B   GEM is the back-end code generator used by Macro32, Bliss, and C.   compilers, and it can generate Itanium code.  C   Most UNIX environments support more than one language, of course.tF   The UNIX CONFIGURE tool(s) are arguably language(s) upon themselves,C   too.  OpenVMS simply happens to use multiple languages within therB   operating system -- I'd not be surprised to learn that chunks ofA   various UNIX flavors were written in Perl, TCL, Java, or any of0(   various other languages, for instance.  D   OpenVMS is presently undergoing its second port -- UNIX has seen aC   few more of these over the years, with corresponding improvementstA   in the results and the porting speed after each port.  And the RE   current OpenVMS port to Itanium is definitely easier than the firsteE   port; than the Alpha port.  And I personally expect this particularv+   trend to continue, if/when we port again.   D   (Ask your co-worker how long the first and second ports of NetBSD 7   took to implement and debug.  Then call us back.  :-)m  D   As for the porting, OpenVMS moved the constructs from VAX hardwareE   into Alpha PALcode during the first port, and is now moving various A   constructs from PALcode into the operating system itself.  This E   would obviously speed the third port, but I'd rather see the target H   architecture for the third port before I predicted that schedule.  :-)  G   As we port, more and more moves into the operating system -- the fulljE   lowest-common-denominator approach makes for the fastest ports, but.D   the speed can be bad.  The use of hardware features can be faster.  F   Most of what I've been spending my time on recently are requirementsC   that are specific to the Itanium platform, features that most anyvE   UNIX system would have to provide when operating on an Itanium box.s  E   And OpenVMS is written in various languages, as is discussed in then    following OpenVMS FAQ section:  3           2.6  In what language is OpenVMS written?   E                    OpenVMS is written in a wide variety of languages.l  A                    In no particular order, OpenVMS components are H                    implemented using Bliss, Macro, Ada, PLI, VAX and DECG                    C, Fortran, UIL, VAX and Alpha SDL, Pascal, MDL, DEC1I                    C++, DCL, Message, and Document. And this is certainlytF                    not a complete list. However, the rumor is NOT trueI                    that an attempt was made to write pieces of OpenVMS in-J                    every supported language so that the Run-Time LibrariesI                    could not be unbundled. (APL, BASIC, COBOL and RPG areE?                    just some of the languages NOT represented!)o  F                    There are a large variety of small and not-so-smallI                    tools and DCL command procedures that are used as parttI                    of the OpenVMS build, and a source code control systemlH                    capable of maintaining over a hundred thousand sourceG                    files across multiple parallel development projects,n,                    and overlapping releases.    G   When last I looked at this aspect of the source pool, the major hunkscF   of the operating system source pool were roughly divided into thirdsF   -- a third of Bliss, a third of C, and a third of Macro32.  There isH   a (much smaller) pile of other stuff and other languages, as is listedF   in the FAQ.  (Did I already post counts of the numbers of modules ofE   each of these three languages for the core of OpenVMS?  I *think* IpC   posted these when last a similar discussion arose in the 'group.)e  E   Most new OpenVMS code is being written in C, but existing Bliss and E   Macro32 code is being updated as required.  Comparatively little isiH   being rewritten -- there are a couple of cases where we are rewriting,D   but these cases are comparatively isolated and specific to certainH   languages and situations.  Macro64 code, for instance, is not porting.  F   But in my estimation (and in conclusion), one of the most overlookedE   portions of any operating system port is the code generation -- the >   availability and capabilities of the code generator and the F   capabilities of the compiler(s) based on the code generator can makeD   or break the operating system and even the application ports.  And7   getting good (and fast) code is (obviously) critical.t    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------J       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.comt   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:19:40 -0800 (PST)a. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: XFC OVMS 7.3  + ES-40 (10GB RAM) @ Message-ID: <20030226191940.65280.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Dear Sirs   G I am not a performance specialist but checking a new server I received o< by heritage... why the Percent Read IOs is almost 6000% ???? Any misconfuration at SYSGEN ?  B Extended File Cache  (Time of last reset: 15-NOV-2002 10:42:51.23)N     Allocated (Mbytes)         4282.96    Maximum size (Mbytes)        5120.00N     Free (Mbytes)                 0.00    Minimum size (Mbytes)           3.12O     In use (Mbytes)            4282.95    Percentage Read I/Os            5242%iO     Read hit rate                   81%   Write hit rate                     0%IN     Read I/O count          3758504229    Write I/O count            608152633N     Read hit count          3062477563    Write hit count                    0N     Reads bypassing cache           27    Writes bypassing cache            14N     Files cached open             1695    Files cached closed              787N     Vols in Full XFC mode            0    Vols in VIOC Compatible mode      19N     Vols in No Caching mode          0    Vols in Perm. No Caching mode      0       =====- ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil- fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?2 Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/5   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:25:49 GMT66 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: [CDU] Compiler doesn't work over DECnet ?5 Message-ID: <N9b7a.118024$Rb4.1543572@news.chello.at>e  K In article <3E5B3A88.99521E23@hp.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@hp.com> writes: I >It looks like CDU is using RMS function which is not supported in DECNETr >operations.  2 Sounds like an easy problem for you in my ears ;-)  = >Out of interest, when was the last time this command worked?m  F I can't remember that it ever worked. Maybe some other one can step inG for a more precise answer. But as I wrote, I already found this problem ? some years/versions ago (probably for exactly the same reason).:  & Thanks for responding and looking into   -- d Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER:% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:14:52 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: [OT] Compelling reasons why NOT to use XP/ Message-ID: <3E5D203A.4C83FC5F@vl.videotron.ca>r   Carl Karcher wrote:w. > ->http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm   OUCH !  J Although in fairness, I don't see the big fuss about Microsoft widhdrawing: support from older versions of its products after X years.  G But that OS tries to connect to microsoft hosts for all sorts of sundryt activities is unacceptable.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.113 ************************