/ INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 1       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... P A new breed of free email! Worldwide access including WWW, Outlook, mobiles/PDAs! Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? 8 Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a file5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?  Happy New Year Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? MAIL as a filing cabinet2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching 1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching 1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching  SMTP mail: TFF facility  Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 02 23:06:06 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...) Message-ID: <4tnXoQWfkwWm@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <4l311v8psmcgl73cck9hscmcq84c02jn34@4ax.com>, Jason Brady <jrbrady@nospam.mindspring.com> writes:H > On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:28:23 -0400, JF Mezei <jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca> > wrote: >  >>P >>A poof (gay) jumps on your back. Do you let him do it or do you pull him off ? >> > B > Some of us in the VMS community don't appreciate your homophobicG > comments.  They are irresponsible, violent, and have no place in this E > newsgroup.  On one hand you complain about VMS' alienation from the H > mainstream I.T. world, but with the other you are doing the same thing/ > to a societal group you apparently condemn.    >   4 Woah. Let's please stop this conversation right now.   G > I thought we are all I.T. professionals.  Let's stick with the topic, 5 > people, and leave our personal biases to ourselves.  >   C Well, you are the very first person here in the 5 years I have been @ visiting comp.os.vms who has even broached the subject of sexual preferences.  , Or for that matter colour, race or religion.  - Please let us stick to technical discussions.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 01:45:50 +0000( From: "Fred Higgins" <fredh@bigfoot.com>Y Subject: A new breed of free email! Worldwide access including WWW, Outlook, mobiles/PDAs 9 Message-ID: <3e124850$0$234$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>   OBeing a gadget freak I own a T68I, T39, 6310I, 7650, 8310, and an IPAQ 3970. I've spent many an hour looking for a unified email solution that would enable me to access my email from not only my *favorite email client & web browser* but also my *mobile devices* as well. Eventually I found a solution offered by UPO, here's the link :    " http://www.universalpostoffice.com  RThey also offer you a variety of available email addresses including such as mymobile.net, and various other phone/PDA type domains. They're even including 10mb of storage and POP3 access and aren't charging a cent. For how long I don't know. BTW, easy access via GPRS/CSD with any built-in phone email client like the 7650 or T68(I) has!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 03:13:11 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?. Message-ID: <3E114386.4880721@vl.videotron.ca>   This has happened twice now:  N MAC has a Appleshar connection to BIKE, mapped to a drive MSCP served by VELO.$ All are on same ethernet (thinwire).  M After a long while of the MAC sending to BIKE, VELO's OPCOM goes wild stating J it has lost connection to BIKE. BIKE's screen doesn't show anything. A fewN minutes later, BIKE decides to kill itself and reboots. ANA/ERROR reveals lost2 connectivity betwene the two nodes. (eg: ethernet)  K This has happened sporadically a few times , but not often enough for me to I worry. But in the past 2 days, it has happened as I tried to backup a mac 2 drive onto my vax with the Pathworks MAC software.    + What would be more likely in your opinion ?   H Faulty hardware on the ethernet that would go nuts, preventing VELO from keeping in touch with BIKE?   I Just too much traffic on the ethernet, ovrwhelming both VELO and BIKE who  can't keep up ?    Anything else ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:39:39 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>A Subject: Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a file & Message-ID: <3E1149BB.3030701@Free.fr>   $!+   $! sys$manager:systartup_vms.com: $! v1.1-0 30-HP-2002 DMo redirect standard output to file. $!-  $! Disable error management 
 $ set noonL $! Assign default output from procedure to file. First I/O will create file.( $ define sys$output sys$manager:boot.log $  ../..  $ ( $! close access to file will close file. $ deassign sys$output  $! end of sys$startup_vms.com  $ exit   D.   serge.zangheri a crit:  > Hi, H > I would like to get the boot messages from the console in a file or at& > least in a decterm of an another VS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:21:54 GMT / From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?: Message-ID: <CwqQ9.612$3U4.216@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>   "Jerry Leslie"  wrote:@ > Does the TCP/IP Services traceroute also send out UDP packets,5 > and operate like the unix version described above ?   C Yes, this is documented in the online traceroute help (as of V5.3).   @ > This is mostly an issue with the Linksys router, but I need to> > know how traceroute operates before I contact Linksys, or my > ISP.  L Also would be useful to have a "-I" switch on the TCP/IP Services traceroute0 command for this situation which would use ICMP.   James    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:35:36 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?; Message-ID: <sJqQ9.87117$Nz5.2539488@twister.austin.rr.com>   . James Wilkinson (elementyl@hotmail.com) wrote: : "Jerry Leslie"  wrote:B : > Does the TCP/IP Services traceroute also send out UDP packets,7 : > and operate like the unix version described above ?  : E : Yes, this is documented in the online traceroute help (as of V5.3).  :    Thanks.   B : > This is mostly an issue with the Linksys router, but I need to@ : > know how traceroute operates before I contact Linksys, or my : > ISP. : D : Also would be useful to have a "-I" switch on the TCP/IP Services = : traceroute command for this situation which would use ICMP.  :    Yes.  4 The 4.3 version has switches, but nothing like that:     $ traceroute -h M   Usage: traceroute [-dflnrv] [-w wait] [-m max_ttl] [-p port#] [-q nqueries] J   [-t tos] [-s src_addr] [-i indir_addr] [-c maxtimeouts] host [data size]  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:18:00 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?2 Message-ID: <3E126BC9.7E070B41@firstdbasource.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:  > < > From message-ID: <BD2eWV0HSJHz@eisner.encompasserve.org> : > E >   "Windows tracert sends out ICMP echo requests with low TTL values G >    as probes and expects ICMP echo replies and time exceeded messages  >    as responses. > > >    Unix traceroute sends out UDP packets with low TTL valuesB >    as probes and expects ICMP port unreachable messages and time% >    exceeded messages as responses."  > D > Does the TCP/IP Services traceroute also send out UDP packets, and1 > operate like the unix version described above ?  > I > A couple of months ago, I upgraded my Linksys BEFSR41 router's firmware  > to the 1.42.7 version. > K > After the upgrade, everything works on the VAXStation, ftp, telnet, smtp,  > ping, except traceroute: > ! >   $ ucx ping /num=5 10.48.160.1 # >   PING 10.48.160.1: 64 data bytes 6 >   72 bytes from 10.48.160.1: icmp_seq=0. time=20. ms6 >   72 bytes from 10.48.160.1: icmp_seq=1. time=10. ms6 >   72 bytes from 10.48.160.1: icmp_seq=2. time=10. ms6 >   72 bytes from 10.48.160.1: icmp_seq=3. time=10. ms6 >   72 bytes from 10.48.160.1: icmp_seq=4. time=10. ms > ' >   ----10.48.160.1 PING Statistics---- = >   5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss + >   round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 10/12/20  >  >   $ traceroute 10.48.160.1I >   traceroute to 10.48.160.1 (10.48.160.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 
 >    1  * * * 
 >    2  * * * 
 >    3  * * *  >    Interrupt >  >    $ ucx show interface ? >                                                       Packets L >    Interface   IP_Addr         Network mask     Receive       Send     MTU > L >     ZE0        192.168.1.96    255.255.255.0     442563     505673    1500L >     LO0        127.0.0.1       255.0.0.0              0         12   65535 > < > The VAXStation has the router's IP address as its gateway: >  >    $ ucx show route/permanent  > 4 >                                 PERMANENT database > A >    Type           Destination                           Gateway  > < >    PN    0.0.0.0                               192.168.1.1 > A > And traceroute can access nodes on the LAN, such as the router:  >  >    $ traceroute 192.168.1.1 J >    traceroute to 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets7 >     1  leslie_linksys (192.168.1.1)  0 ms  0 ms  0 ms  > 8 > Tracert from the PCs to the CMTS and beyond work fine: >  >    Microsoft(R) Windows 98. >       (C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1999. >  >    C:\>tracert 10.48.160.1 > ; >    Tracing route to 10.48.160.1 over a maximum of 30 hops  > 0 >      1    13 ms    25 ms    13 ms  10.48.160.1 >  >    Trace complete. > 	 >    C:\>  > A > After I get traceroute working, I'll upgrade TCP/IP Services to  > something more recent: >  >    $ ucx show version  > C >      Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V4.2 - ECO 3 3 >      on a VAXstation 4000-96 running OpenVMS V7.1  > @ > This is mostly an issue with the Linksys router, but I need toC > know how traceroute operates before I contact Linksys, or my ISP.  >  > Thanks in advance, > J > --Jerry Leslie   leslie@clio.rice.edu  (my opinions are strictly my own); >   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email   D A lot of routers may have this feature turned off so you cannot do a+ complete traceroute and find routers etc... F Most of the companies I have been in over the past few years generallyF have ping and traceroute capabilities turned off for security reasons. --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 06:46:28 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?: Message-ID: <89wQ9.20045$an1.872690@twister.austin.rr.com>  2 Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: : F : A lot of routers may have this feature turned off so you cannot do a- : complete traceroute and find routers etc... H : Most of the companies I have been in over the past few years generallyH : have ping and traceroute capabilities turned off for security reasons. :   < The Windows 'tracert' works, but it uses ICMP echo requests.  F This is a home LAN with a soho router on a residential AOL Time Warner Road Runner cable modem.    5 I'm starting to suspect another Linksys firmware bug.   2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:16:50 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Happy New Year / Message-ID: <3E12254E.D6797FEB@vl.videotron.ca>   M May 2003 bring a winning Powerball ticket to Sue so she can buy VMS and Alpha N lock stock and barrel and make it the success both Sue and VMS deserve :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 13:00:54 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <XHj6hVK$dQ4Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <ausm9m$a3s7a$5@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <4ADhJk1axI64@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:V >> In article <v132vhigd2e87b@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:@ >>> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:C >>> :> I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours.  >>> H >>> :    I believe even a novice can learn to use help in a few minutes. >>>  >>> No argument here.  >>> = >>> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword]  >>  A >> But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning 1 >> of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-)  > @ > Oh please....  That particular one has been mentioned here and. > adequately explained numerous times already.  @ That does not mean it is easy to remember.  I do not recall ever seeing it before.   B Besides, do you ignore the possibility somebody new might join the
 newsgroup?   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 19:11:06 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <ausq49$a1jqa$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <3E11DC5C.4010302@vajhoej.dk>, & 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > A >>>And ? You claimed that it was as diffciult to get out of emacs  >>>as to get out of vi.  >>> ? >>>I just noted that even this may be true for emacs in VT then " >>>it may be false for emacs in X. >>  C >> I guess, if you consider that a feature of Emacs as opposed to a E >> feature of X.  I can exit vi by closing the X-window it is running D >> in, it won't save my work, but it will get me out.  And, assumingC >> I know so little about how to use the editor, I may  not wnat to , >> save what damage I have done anyway.  :-) >  > @ > So you do not think there are a difference activating the file@ > menu and selecting exit or quit and just closing the window ??  B Of course I do.  Did you miss the smiley at the end of the above??   > G >>>To my best knowledge the X interfaces was added to emacs a long long 5 >>>time ago and is part of the standard distribution.  >>  F >> Hmmmm..  Does Emacs for VMS support an X interface??  Wouldn't most- >> VMS users be using it from a VTsomething??  >  > A > No. I think most VMS users today (unlike for 10 years ago) have  > access to X.  ? That's funny.  None of the VMS machines in the data center here B support X for anybody but a selecet few of the SysAdmins.  Regular> users are limited to telneting in with something that supportsC character cell access.  It's another one of the differences between B me and them.  Mine have always supported DecWindows for all users.   > ? > But not particular relevant in a discussion about how to quit  > Unix editors.   A Well, it is if we are going to be consistant.  It is a relatively @ safe bet that with the exception of dinosaurs like me, most Unix? users who have X access don't use "vi".  Sp if you are going to > insist that the majority of VMS users use an Xinterface and an? editor that understands it, then you have to allow the same for C Unix.  If we are going to talk about the ease/difficulty of exiting A a character cell editor, then let's keep the comparison the same. A How does one exit EDT from full screen mode??  ^Z followed by the F "EXIT" command??  And how is this more obvious than <ESC> (needed only# if not in command mode) and ":wq"??    > J >>                                                Speaking of standard andJ >> Emacs in the same sentence seems somewhat of an oxymoron to me.  UnlessH >> your one of those people who believes there was nothing prior to GNU. > A > It is my impression that GNU Emacs is and has been the de facto % > standard emace for many many years.   ? Perhaps in the free software world, but I doubt that any of the > real commercial Emacs's are based on it as opposed to the much? earlier PD version that resulted in all this GNU garbage in the B first place.  The Emacs that Gnu Emacs was based on wasn't startedB until 1984.  The Gnu Manifesto wasn't published until 1985 and theB FSF and Gnu Project followed that.  I had already been using EMACSA since at least 1980.  Don't give Stallman any more credit than he  deserves. (which is none)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 16:20:14 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <VCAge$rpgPSC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <v144hpdc2lr7b9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:  <snip>= > Do you mean me?  Sorry, I'll explain the utility of man -k.  >  > = > Say you want to know the shell-level (level 1) commands for $ > setting / changing your password : >  >> man -k password | grep "(1)" A > k5passwd(1), kpasswd(1)  - Kerberos 5 password changing program W > keyinit(1)               - change password or add user to S/Key authentication system ` > opiepasswd(1)            - Change or set a user's password for the OPIE authentication  system5 > passwd(1), yppasswd(1)   - modify a user's password a > skey(1), S/key(1)        - a procedure to use one time passwords for accessing computer systems  >  >  > $ HELP HINTS PASSWORD  > HINTS - >   Sorry, no documentation on HINTS PASSWORD    Try:   $HELP HINTS USER_ENVIRONMENT  G At the risk of extending the UNIX vs. VMS "war", I'll note that (for me O anyways) I'm "comfortable" with commands that I use frequently.  I recently got N my VMS box up and running at home, and after being away from daily VMS use forI about three weeks, I found myself having to think before I typed.  In the M intervening three weeks, I "fooled around" with installing various flavors of M Linux and *BSD on my intel boxes, and therefore had gotten used to UNIX-style M syntax.  A few more days on my VMS box, and I think I'll have gotten the hang  of it again.   YMMV, of course.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:32:18 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? & Message-ID: <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > + > In article <3E11BE0D.5020509@vajhoej.dk>, / >         Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >  > >> cd /usr/share/man8 > >> find ./man? -exec groff -man {} \;|lpr -PPostscript > >>? > >> Not as confusing as the example above, and this one works.  > > 3 > > Still not exactly obvious for the Unix newbie !  > >  > >:-) > G > Of course not.  But we're not newbies, we are all professionals here. @ > And, contrary to popular belief VMS isn't any more intuitive.    A highly arguable point.   > PeopleJ > here think that the use of HELP instead of "man" is somehow more logical > for the un-initiated.   E I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like:   " sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!   or  ( $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!  ; ...one would eventually get a clue that would prove useful.   2 > Guess what, when I go to the library and need toI > find something I may not look it up in the "man" file, but I also don't G > look it up in the HELP file. I use a card catalog.  So why then isn't D > the VMS HELP system called the card catalog??  Seems that would be, > more intuitive to the non-computer expert.  H ...assuming one knows that the card catalog is the "key" to the library.  F Also, be aware that at some multi-location libraries, the card catalogE may contain entries for volumes which are found at locations than the % one where you found the card catalog.   E > It's time to admit that none of this on any system is intuitive and D > neither was it intended to be.  All of this was designed at a timeI > when only computer professionals used computers and it was all designed L > for them.  It's all jargon and assumes a basic knowledge of the particularK > system in use, even from the beginning.  Which probably explains why most G > job ads specifically list the systems they want prospective employees D > to be familiar with.  If everything were intuitive and obvious, it > wouldn't make any difference.   @ Well, the Windows-weenies would likely argue that last sentence.  F Personally, I find GUIs to be clumsy, poorly designed, time-consuming,D resource consumptive and *ANY*thing *BUT* intuitive. I think it mustF have taken me at least an hour to discover that the most common way toF exit a Windows V3.0 program or applet was to open the "File" pull-downE (last place I would have thought to put it) and select "Exit". I even ) had to write it down the first few times!   E I never really thought of "help" as jargon, except possibly among the G people seeking assistance for one reason or another. Then, I suppose it   might be classified as "jargon".   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 16:39:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <u4n5Ad6MCrFV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <v144hpdc2lr7b9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: 0 > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:> > :> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword] > B > : But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning2 > : of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-) > = > Do you mean me?  Sorry, I'll explain the utility of man -k.  >  > = > Say you want to know the shell-level (level 1) commands for $ > setting / changing your password : >  >> man -k password | grep "(1)" A > k5passwd(1), kpasswd(1)  - Kerberos 5 password changing program W > keyinit(1)               - change password or add user to S/Key authentication system ` > opiepasswd(1)            - Change or set a user's password for the OPIE authentication  system5 > passwd(1), yppasswd(1)   - modify a user's password a > skey(1), S/key(1)        - a procedure to use one time passwords for accessing computer systems   E Sorry, I still don't know what the -k is about, and you have added to  the original 3-element command.    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 23:34:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aut9i8$a24n0$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ' In article <3E121758.FD81AC72@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:	 >> [snip]  >>  H >> People here should really learn how Unix works before criticizing it. > I > Learning how UNIX works s fairly simple compared to learning the shells 1 > and the various utilities cited in this thread.   E But that is what most people (especially here) think Unix is. Now, if 3 you want to get into dicussing the kernel.....  :-)    > G > Would it have KILLED someone to include a "printman" utility (even if D > just a one-line script containing the command string you cited) orI > something similar in recognition of the fact that some of us still work  > best from hard copy?  ? Until AT&T decided to sell the rights to publish the manuals to = Prentice Hall, every Unix distribution I ever used up through ? SYS V R4 came with printed manuals.  they didn't occupy as much > wall space as the Orange or Gray Wall, but they were extensive6 and usually included a lot more than the manual pages.   > J > ...one of the classic "chicken and egg" problems: to learn how to accessH > the information you must first learn how to access the information. ToJ > learn how to do this, simply access the information per the instructions > enclosed there in.  @ And how does this differ from any OS??  Until the first time you% use it, you won't know how to use it.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 23:38:01 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aut9oo$a24n0$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ' In article <3E121566.245A5D6B@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >>  j >> In article <auqe2a$osi$1@shell.monmouth.com>, pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes:! >> > Actually something like this  >> > >> > cd /usr/share/man >> >K >> > find . -type f -print |eqn | tbl |groff -Tps -man $i |lpr -Ppostscript  >> >' >> > Real intuitive for an end user eh?  >>  K >>    Right.  You can get that out of studying the man pages for just a few 
 >>    months.  >>  < >>    Oh, you wanted to get the man pages?  Well, see above. >   > Funny you should mention that. > G > When I first started to look at NetBSD some years ago, I corresponded ? > with a fellow who never could quite understand that since the I > installation instructions are included in the man pages, you have to do I > the install and unpack the manpages before you can unpack the man pages H > and do the install. That is, he never quite grasped that to unpack the0 > man pages you must first unpack the man pages.  E To the best of my knowledge, the installation instructions have never D been a part of the man pages.  They are usually contained in a plainD text file located in the same place you get the distribution and theE bootable media you need to install it.  It would make little sense to J have this in the man pages as it differs from one architecture to another.  D That is not to say that someone didn't tell you this, only that they@ were wrong as are many of the other things said about Unix here.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 23:42:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <auta1k$a24n0$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ' In article <3E121C5F.36C7117A@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > @ > I don't think it's reasonable to expect VMS people to rememberA > UN*X-isms, especially if they are not primarily responsible for / > UN*X(-like) systems in their everyday duties.    = I agree, but it is reasonable to expect them to not spout out < garbage as if it's gospel.  If you don't know the proper way= to do something it makes little sense to offer something that < is wrong and won't work anyway and then criticize the OS for the shortcoming.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 2003 00:05:51 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <autbcu$9u1ae$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   & In article <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>,4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  , >> In article <3E11BE0D.5020509@vajhoej.dk>,0 >>         Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >> > >> >> cd /usr/share/man 9 >> >> find ./man? -exec groff -man {} \;|lpr -PPostscript  >> >> @ >> >> Not as confusing as the example above, and this one works. >> >4 >> > Still not exactly obvious for the Unix newbie ! >> > >> >:-)  >>  H >> Of course not.  But we're not newbies, we are all professionals here.A >> And, contrary to popular belief VMS isn't any more intuitive.   >  > A highly arguable point.  - As is evidenced by this very discussion.  :-)    > 	 >> People K >> here think that the use of HELP instead of "man" is somehow more logical  >> for the un-initiated.   >    VMS wins this round.  G > I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like:  > $ > sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!   %man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!  No manual entry for this No manual entry for a ! No manual entry for crock-of-spit  No manual entry for o.s.!    >  > or > * > $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!  ( $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!  =   Sorry, no documentation on ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING     #   Additional information available:   G   :=         =          @          ACCOUNTING ACL_Editor ACS        ADA M   ADVISE     ALLOCATE   ANALYZE    APPEND     ASSIGN     ATTACH     AUTHORIZE H   AUTOGEN    BACKUP_API BACKUP_Command        BASIC      Berkeley_R_CommI   CALL       CANCEL     CC         CDSA       CLI_Routines          CLOSE G   CMS        COBOL      CONFIGURE  CONNECT    CONTINUE   CONV$_Routines H   CONVERT    COPY       CPML       CQUAL_Routines        CREATE     CRTLL   CXX        CXXDEMANGLE           CXXL       CXXLINK    CXXLSTD    DCL_TipsL   DCX_Routines          DEALLOCATE DEASSIGN   DEBUG      DECdts     DECeventJ   DECK       DECset     DECthreads DECTPU     DEC_TCP/IP DEFINE     DELETE@   DEPOSIT    DIAGNOSE   DIFFERENCES           DIRECTORY  DISABLEH   DISCONNECT DISMOUNT   DPML       DQS        DSR        DSTGRAPH   DUMPG   EDIT       EDT_Routines          ENABLE     ENDSUBROUTINE         EOD G   EOJ        Errors     EXAMINE    EXCHANGE   EXIT       Ext_File_Specs K   FDL_Files  FDL_Routines          FINGER     FLOWGRAPH  FONT       FORTRAN H   FTP        FTP_overview          GENCAT     GOSUB      GOTO       HELP     Press RETURN to continue ...   > = > ...one would eventually get a clue that would prove useful.  > 3 >> Guess what, when I go to the library and need to J >> find something I may not look it up in the "man" file, but I also don'tH >> look it up in the HELP file. I use a card catalog.  So why then isn'tE >> the VMS HELP system called the card catalog??  Seems that would be - >> more intuitive to the non-computer expert.  > J > ...assuming one knows that the card catalog is the "key" to the library.  F More proof of my point.  Without knowing the jargon of the library bizC (which we teach our children at a very early age) you would be lost  there as well.   > H > Also, be aware that at some multi-location libraries, the card catalogG > may contain entries for volumes which are found at locations than the ' > one where you found the card catalog.  > F >> It's time to admit that none of this on any system is intuitive andE >> neither was it intended to be.  All of this was designed at a time J >> when only computer professionals used computers and it was all designedM >> for them.  It's all jargon and assumes a basic knowledge of the particulartL >> system in use, even from the beginning.  Which probably explains why mostH >> job ads specifically list the systems they want prospective employeesE >> to be familiar with.  If everything were intuitive and obvious, it   >> wouldn't make any difference. > B > Well, the Windows-weenies would likely argue that last sentence. > H > Personally, I find GUIs to be clumsy, poorly designed, time-consuming,F > resource consumptive and *ANY*thing *BUT* intuitive. I think it mustH > have taken me at least an hour to discover that the most common way toH > exit a Windows V3.0 program or applet was to open the "File" pull-downG > (last place I would have thought to put it) and select "Exit". I evens+ > had to write it down the first few times!a  C I agree.  back in the days when the MAC was just starting and ApplesC was spouting their drivel about how "intuitive" the point-and-clickAA environment was I already had a system that supported a mouse.  IoD put some stuff on it and turned my then 3-4 year old daughter loose.E Needless to say, the mouse spent most of it's time on the floor after D rolling off the edge of the desk and she found it faster to just useA the keyboard.  As for exiting programs in Windows, remembering my C bad example of just closing an X-window in a previous message, I ameA amazed at how many people I work with double click the upper left C hand corner of the Window instead of using the Exit function of the @ application.  I don;t know how Windows handles that, but it sure rubs me the wrong way.   > G > I never really thought of "help" as jargon, except possibly among the2I > people seeking assistance for one reason or another. Then, I suppose it " > might be classified as "jargon".  F I consider it jargon in the application of computer information.  MostC people where I work would consider HELP what they got from calling m> ext. 4357 (hint: it spells HELP and gets the local help desk).  r bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:07:24 -0800 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>?' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t2 Message-ID: <oWsQ9.3986$F63.91459@news.xtra.co.nz>  - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in messagen( news:v132pga8kms18@corp.supernews.com...   >a > Unix isn't rocket science. >    So, you admit it finally?t+ Now, can we move on to some serious things?o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:29:11 -0800 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz>.' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?i2 Message-ID: <PetQ9.4009$F63.91670@news.xtra.co.nz>  9 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message / news:ausfco$a84k7$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...b  G > And, contrary to popular belief VMS isn't any more intuitive.  PeoplefJ > here think that the use of HELP instead of "man" is somehow more logicalI > for the un-initiated.  Guess what, when I go to the library and need to-I > find something I may not look it up in the "man" file, but I also don't  > look it up in the HELP file.  ( Well, let's try a hypothetical question:  C Assume that you are in an English-speaking country and a man-eating3E tiger or a robber attacks you. Or you slip and are about to fall downTE a precipice. Would you be more likely to yell "help" or "man" [unlessg4 you wanted to swear in your last moments, that is:)]  @ Of course, if you'are speaking other languages I guess you could' substitute some similar equivalents ...E   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:47:35 -0000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> ' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?sE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CAE27@tahiti.tinuk.com>n   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]=20t > Sent: 31 December 2002 18:11 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt) > Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?7 >=20 >=20 > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >=20- > > In article <3E11C76E.4040202@vajhoej.dk>,0, > > 	Arne Vajh=F8j <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:; > >>So you claim that if you ask 100 people with no VMS andDJ > >>no Unix experience about what the command for getting help is, then=20- > >>"help" and "man" will be picked equally ?  > >=20B > > No, I'm saying that if you stopped 100 people on the street=20 > and asked=20@ > > them, "How would you look up the correct command to print=20 > out all the=20B > > files on a computer?" you would get neither "man" or "HELP"=20 > but would=20$ > > most likely get, "I don't know." >=20 >=209 > True. But just imagine they were asked to try guessing.p >=20: > >>I think that is wrong. My guess is that none will pick: > >>"man", that "help" will be the most popular choice and5 > >>that "?" will be the second most popular choice !C > >=20; > > You don't think that "HELP" rating higher might have=20y > something to do=20H > > with the fact that you used that term in the question, do you??  :-) >=20 >=20 > Actually no. >=20? > It would be same result if we asked for "what the command for 7 > getting information about the commands available is".e >=20' > Help is a common word everyone knows.r >=20B > >>There are a difference between english words and abbreviations > >>of english words.  > >=20E > > And there is a difference between english words and jargon.  WhenaG > > I look something up in a book I don't consider that "getting help". F > > I, and I would think most people, think of "HELP" as involving the? > > assistance of some other person.  VMS people see HELP as=20s > more intuitiveA > > only because that is how they have been doing it for so long.. >=20 >=206 > No. Everyone except the Unix crowd sees it that way. >=20 > Try: >    gcc ---help >    gcc --man > on any box or: >    help xcopym >    man xcopy" > on a recent flavour of Windows ! >=20 > Arne >=20 >=20 >=20      E Just for information while I'm in the office on a callout at 3:41am =iE <groan - what a way to spend New Year!> I actually did this earlier =eD today among some friends and acquaintances, most of whose computer =H knowledge is just home PC use, but all of them said in response to the =J question "If you were on a computer and you needed to find out how to do =I something that you didn't know, what command or what facility would you =VJ try to use if you hadn't seen this computer before?" the word "Help?" so =J I don't know whether that moves the discussion forward any, or I've just =A made myself look a right geek in front of my mates who couldn't =cG understand why I was asking them, and when I told them their response =-4 was "You sad tee-doubleyou-ay-tee" but there you go!   ;^D   J Cheers and let's hope I can get this problem sorted PDQ so I can go back = home...i   Steve So   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:28:31 -0000r! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>l' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?r/ Message-ID: <v14rjf2b5d9ve9@corp.supernews.com>o  0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:G : When I first started to look at NetBSD some years ago, I corresponded ? : with a fellow who never could quite understand that since thetI : installation instructions are included in the man pages, you have to do I : the install and unpack the manpages before you can unpack the man pagesfH : and do the install. That is, he never quite grasped that to unpack the0 : man pages you must first unpack the man pages.  4 Can you use HELP for help installing HELP libraries?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:15:58 -0400]0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: MAIL as a filing cabinet / Message-ID: <3E113617.D8179421@vl.videotron.ca>   K I had been toying with the idea of moving all of my ALL-IN-1 documents to a M VMSmail database, which means I could use the character cell and decwindows ,m$ as well as imap access to documents.  F However, looking at the VMSmail services (MAIL$routines etc), it seesmN impossible to create a document per say. One can only send a document as a new/ message and have it stay in the NEWMAIL folder.e  M Has anyone found a way to create a mail message and store it in any folder inl one's mail files ?  M I think I now understand why when one sets the mail profile to keep a copy of G message sent, that copy is actually sent as a BCC and received as a new M message, instead of automatically going to an "OUTBOX" folder as was the caseg with ALL-IN-1.    B With the announced demise of ALL-IN-1, it would be good if the VMSI engineers/management were to say something about what their plans are for , VMSmail in terms of any future developments.  < It really isn't so easy to replace ALL-IN-1's functionality.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:07:06 -0800t0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands4, Message-ID: <3E11DCCA.51B561B3@Mvb.Saic.Com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > Mark Berryman wrote:
 > > [snip]K > > Ok, that is one caveat which, I think, is easily resolved.  Any others?m > D > Dunno how much of the old thread you read, but at least one posterH > expressed some reservations about having to deposit $.COM and/or $.EXEE > files in each possible directory that might be included in a user's  > DCL$PATH.r   Not trying to be pedantic but:  E Users don't change DCL$PATH, they expect the system to work correctly $ without worrying about such details.  H Programmers, on the other hand, occasionally do.  To date, it has alwaysB been changed by adding to the existing definition, not inserting aF different directory in front, so my one entry is sufficient.  The onlyA reason for inserting one in front would be to override one of the E commands I have placed in DCL$PATH and that need has not yet surfaced F (to my knowledge anyway).  They could do so if they wished, of course,B but they would understand what happened when they got that strangeH result from typing * since they understood DCL$PATH enough to change it.  G Another point that I think should be raised is that there is nothing in8H my DCL$PATH that could cause damage if invoked accidentally.  You eitherC get an error indicating insufficient arguments, a help screen, or a1F prompt for further input.  Having any generally available command thatC can (destructively) change something without argument or prompt is,S
 IMHO, bad.   > H > My personal take is that if programs like EDT can return an error likeH > "-RMS-F-WLD, invalid wildcard operation", DCL should be able to do theH > same thing. Of course and as always, there should be a logical one canG > set to restore the current wildcard behavior in case anything breaks.  >  > ...IMHO... >   E That one I agree with.  In fact, DCL works by calling $SEARCH with an$B argument of DCL$PATH:verb.* and then does an explicit check of theC result to see if the file Type is either .COM or .EXE.  If it wouldVG simply add a check to make sure that file Name = verb (case blind) thene this issue wouldn't exist.  H However, I do not agree with the assesment that this is a "major caveat" regarding the use of DCL$PATH.  
 Mark Berrymani   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 02:16:00 -0500i* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching2 Message-ID: <ej2dnTWFkJDY2YyjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l9 wrote in message news:3E1021F9.7080001@nospamn.sun.com...i >e >uC > Personnaly I think that Infiniband is much more likely to show up > > as an I/O interconnect replacing direct PCI connections into
 > servers.  I E.g., tying directly into something like HyperTransport or a Northbridge.l   > D > Currently most vendors use PCI, PCI-X which all have their issues. >DD > Bandwidth is one, length is another and there are also significant$ > issues around fault isolation etc. > C > Everyone has their own spin on Infiniband, personally I don't see @ > it as a replacement for the big switched interconnects used to; > build large SMP servers because it doesn't have the rightp > characteristics.  @ Exactly.  It's not sufficient even for architectures with lesserK inter-processor communication abilities than EV7 (and Hammer).  But it doesoB make a dandy cluster (and SAN) interconnect, if you can afford it.   >'A > We have run RAC on Sun Fire Link which is faster than 30 Gbs IBl= > and has a slightly lower latency, even using something likeo7 > Sun Fire Link does not guarantee that RAC will scale.-  L With that kind of bandwidth and latency, if RAC doesn't scale well then it'sF doing something wrong.  Of course, being limited to 8 cluster nodes isJ several orders of magnitude smaller than IB clusters can potentially scaleK to - and while 8 nodes may be all Sun aspires to, that's extremely limitingsC for other kinds of useful configurations (especially when you start-9 including intelligent shared storage nodes in the total).e   >m8 > On the other hand we have customers with 10 or more FC5 > adaptors and 2+ Gigabit cards in each server and inrC > this case having a dual Infiniband connection to a Infiniband->FCl; > bridge or a Infiniband->Gigabit bridge or straight into aa5 > Infiniband port in a FC/Gigabit switch would vastlyn, > simplify the I/O subsystem on the servers.  B Yup - as I said elsewhere, IB definitely extends the definition ofB 'high-end' in the realm of interconnects, though the population ofI installations that actually requires that extension is a relatively small  one.   >b9 > Of course people will use IB for clustering and it will.6 > be usefull in some environments, however latency and3 > bandwidth issues will still defeat people who try>: > to use if as a wholesale replacement for big backplanes.  F Indeed, no more than Sun Fire Links can.  Which just recapitulates theB already well-understood observation that clusters in general can'tJ substitute across the board for large SMP/NUMA systems (though they can do: *some* things just as well, and a couple of things - e.g., disaster-tolerance - better).b   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:04:34 +00002' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy(: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching. Message-ID: <3E116BB2.2050505@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l; > wrote in message news:3E1021F9.7080001@nospamn.sun.com...i >  >>C >>Personnaly I think that Infiniband is much more likely to show up > >>as an I/O interconnect replacing direct PCI connections into
 >>servers. >  > K > E.g., tying directly into something like HyperTransport or a Northbridge.  >  > D >>Currently most vendors use PCI, PCI-X which all have their issues. >>D >>Bandwidth is one, length is another and there are also significant$ >>issues around fault isolation etc. >>C >>Everyone has their own spin on Infiniband, personally I don't see @ >>it as a replacement for the big switched interconnects used to; >>build large SMP servers because it doesn't have the righto >>characteristics. >  > B > Exactly.  It's not sufficient even for architectures with lesserM > inter-processor communication abilities than EV7 (and Hammer).  But it doespD > make a dandy cluster (and SAN) interconnect, if you can afford it. >  > A >>We have run RAC on Sun Fire Link which is faster than 30 Gbs IB = >>and has a slightly lower latency, even using something likei7 >>Sun Fire Link does not guarantee that RAC will scale.y >  > N > With that kind of bandwidth and latency, if RAC doesn't scale well then it'sH > doing something wrong.  Of course, being limited to 8 cluster nodes isL > several orders of magnitude smaller than IB clusters can potentially scaleM > to - and while 8 nodes may be all Sun aspires to, that's extremely limitingrE > for other kinds of useful configurations (especially when you starti; > including intelligent shared storage nodes in the total).s >  >   6 The problem is that even with just 2 nodes if you only5 get 50% additional performance from adding the secondo2 node then RAC doesn't work from a cost standpoint.  4 Even if you assume say >70% for the first node and a1 loss of 10% per additional node you end up with 8s0 being the maximum number of nodes where you will
 get a return.y  3 In reality very very few apps are as benign as thist1 and even if they were the cost of RAC, Partioningm. the interconnect and the additional costs make4 building the equivalent of a large SMP system out of& little 2-4 way nodes cost prohibitive.  4 Of course RAC gives you HA and this is a good thing.   Just as an example.t  0 Lets imagine that an 16 way F6800 costs ~850,0003 Lets assume that for your particular app RAC scaleso0 at 70% for the first additional node and then 9%. less for the rest. (amazingly optimistic BTW).  1 BTW 9% is because if you use 10% you never get ton 16 way perf with your cluster.  0 Lets imagine that you use 4 way Xeon based Intel3 servers, fully configured with memory and an exotic 1 interconnect like memory channel cost you ~30,000h3 per node. Oracle is 40K per CPU, RAC 20, PartioningG 10.a  4 So you need 8 x 4 way nodes to match the 16 way Sun.  , You pay 240,000 for the 8 nodes. However you1 then pay an additional 30K per CPU for the Oracleu/ licenses over and above the based DBMS licensesl1 and you have 16 more CPU's for the DBMS licenses.o  - The difference in SW cost between the RAC and  SMP system is 1,600,000.  / You end up with a CapX cost for the RAC clustern2 using commodity components of 1,840,000 vs 850,000 for the SMP.  2 The running cost for the RAC cluster is also going to be much higher.  / It doesn't take genius to work out that this is6/ a very bad deal if all you are attempting to doo2 is to use a cluster to deliver the same throughput as a large SMP system.  / Of course Oracle may discount the license costs<- but this is also benefitial to the SMP systema as well.  - The 4 way nodes need to be virtually free and 0 you need a large discount on the Oracle licenses0 to break even with RAC on CapX. Also assumeing a very high scalability.  1 This is one of the reasons why I have such a good + laugh every time someone mentions RAC as an % alternative to doing big SMP systems.(     Regards  Andrew Harrisono   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:25:39 -0500-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching2 Message-ID: <f-icndpdndBVwo-jXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> 9 wrote in message news:3E116BB2.2050505@nospamn.sun.com...o >n >N > Bill Todd wrote:   ...L  K > > With that kind of bandwidth and latency, if RAC doesn't scale well thenl it'sJ > > doing something wrong.  Of course, being limited to 8 cluster nodes isH > > several orders of magnitude smaller than IB clusters can potentially scalemF > > to - and while 8 nodes may be all Sun aspires to, that's extremely limitingG > > for other kinds of useful configurations (especially when you startv= > > including intelligent shared storage nodes in the total).f > >a > >t >u8 > The problem is that even with just 2 nodes if you only7 > get 50% additional performance from adding the second 4 > node then RAC doesn't work from a cost standpoint. >e6 > Even if you assume say >70% for the first node and a3 > loss of 10% per additional node you end up with 8e2 > being the maximum number of nodes where you will > get a return.n  F None of which in any way contradicts my suggestion that if RAC in factJ scales that poorly it's poorly designed (or at least poorly configured forJ the task being run).  Nor does it eliminate the utility of the other kindsF of larger cluster configurations (running tasks other than RAC) that I
 mentioned.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:07:12 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  Subject: SMTP mail: TFF facility/ Message-ID: <3E11DCCA.6A764A1F@vl.videotron.ca>h  M OK, TFF is now documented. However, in the documentation,  it states that one"C simply creates an RFC822 message in a file, and submit this to TFF.h  J Does this mean that  TFF will parse the RFC822 header to determine who the0 message should be going to ? (not quite kosher).  I For instance, if I wants to send to 5 people, but have a TO: <undisclosed - recipients> line, is that possible with TFF ?n  J Or must I go and reverser engineer the control file formats and submit the- files myself to the appropriate SMTP queues ?r  K I would have prefered if one would provide TFF with 2 files, one containing N the destination and one containing the message.  In SMTP parlance, the MAIL TOL commands in the SMTP dialogue are quite difference from the DATA phase which< contains teh message (the RFC822 header  is part of message)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:02:01 -0400h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS troubles / Message-ID: <3E11DB92.6D89C9F3@vl.videotron.ca>t   vmstroubles wrote: > K > To update, its is a maxtor with RD54-A printed on it so no it is not from 
 > digital.  Q The RD54s were manufactured by MAXTOR. The RD53s were manufactured by Micropolis.r  I I have the real mac-coy in front of me right now (took it out of my spare - microvax II, shedding some blood in doing so)w  . There is a big "MAXTOR" embedded in the metal.  P There is a stamped "RQDX 3" on the sticker containing the deffective block list.  R Below that is a white sticket with bar codes. It hs letters RD54-A  and 30-26245-1   below the bar codes:   (serial number I assume, *SH64510697*  *RD54 A *    *B1*h  ( All of the above is on top of the drive.  n  7 I could not see any mention of "DIGITAL" on the drive. o  - In the back of the drive is a maxtor sticker:e  
 Model XT-2190-
 Seried code 2c Capacity 190mb  ! (amd TLA, HDA, PCBA Serial No).  I   (and I am still bleeding)t  K Do you have the Microvax II manuals ? You might want to look into the RQDX3i$ section for any relevant information  K By the way, if you look inside the q-bus area, the RQDX3 controller has theg
 number M 7555a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:41:42 -0600f% From: "vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu>d Subject: Re: VMS troubles-/ Message-ID: <v13qfu6aoe63ed@corp.supernews.com>6  F Well one of my coworkers did the install of the hard drive and he saidL everything was hooked up right.  The previous hard disc was also an RD54.  IE am acutally booted into the diagnostics software right now.  The onlynL problem is that it refuses to accept the RQDX3 controller.  The actual errorJ it has is "Device disabled by diagnostic. No testing is possible." .  FromJ there i try to test the controller as a single device and it tells me thatH either the diagnostic software or the mdm system has disabled it..  I amG actually wondering if the controller went bad and not the previous hardeF drive.  Do you think that may be a possibility?  Thanks for your time.   Joeo    ; JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messaged) news:3E11D828.AAED5DA7@vl.videotron.ca...  > vmstroubles wrote: > > I > > Well the hard disc as it turns out is a Maxtor XT2190 (an RD54-A).  Ir stillu> > > don't know how to get the RQDXA controller enabled though. >p >w2 > What was the disk before ? Was it also an RD54 ? > H > Do you have the Microvax II diagnostics tape ? If so, take the time to bootJ > from it (boot it before you go home for new years, and when you return a fewgC > days later, it should have finished booting. That will give you a1K > configuration of your system, and more importantly, allows you to start a: lowM& > level format of your new disk drive. >$I > The console for micovax II is useless for showing configuration of your>) > machine, you need the diagnostics tape.. >>K > Are you sure the drive was properly installed ?  The plugs in the back ofe RDJ > drives are fairly idiot-proof, but perhaps they are not fully inserted ? WereH > there changes made in the RQDX3 board inside the machine ? or did they just > swap the drives ?    ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 19:13:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS troublest5 Message-ID: <ausq80$a1jqa$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>v  / In article <v13mp9oq2amiee@corp.supernews.com>,m( 	"vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu> writes:K > To update, its is a maxtor with RD54-A printed on it so no it is not fromcJ > digital.  My diagnostic software left from the people that worked on theN > machine before myself listed the drive controller as a RQDXA, although afterJ > looking around on the net for a while I think that it is in actuality an? > RQDX3.  The RD54 hard disc is also not formated as predicted.r >   E Sounds like the first step is to load the diagnostic software and trybE formating the drive.  That should also tell you if there is a problemw with the controller.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:51:47 -0600 % From: "vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu>n Subject: Re: VMS troublesn/ Message-ID: <v13r2qqdt76f09@corp.supernews.com>   L is there some sort of trick to getting inside of a microvax 2 case because i! am having a beastly time with it.(   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 19:23:42 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS troubles65 Message-ID: <ausqru$a1jqa$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>a  / In article <v13r2qqdt76f09@corp.supernews.com>,I( 	"vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu> writes:N > is there some sort of trick to getting inside of a microvax 2 case because i# > am having a beastly time with it.s  eI I'll assume it's in a deskside pedestal.  You want to get it out of there-I first just because it will be asier to deal with sitting on top of a deskiJ or table.  Once you have only the metal box, look at the back.  There is aK cover that has all the external connectors on it.  It is held in place by   H two screws on a tab that extends to the left end of it.  Unscrew the twoG screws and the cover will come off revealing all the magic modules that & make the VAX the great computer it is.   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 23:51:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS troublest5 Message-ID: <autahc$a24n0$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>o  . In article <3E12044D.1B562D8@vl.videotron.ca>,3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > O > Alternatively, if you have the big microvax II cabinet (with air inlet on the N > left side of front, and air outlet on the right side in back), then you needN > an allen key (I think 5mm). That opens the main cabinet door in the back. ItM > will expose the "back door" that covers the 2 BA23 subcabinets. There are 2uO > swrews to undo at the top of that door. It will hinge downwards, exposing theaS > 2 Q-bus spaces where the cards are plugge in. It can be fairly messy with cables.-  ? I've got one of them but I don't think it was ever used for theuC MicroVAX II.  I think only later versions.  And, as he has an RQDX3-? and RD disk, I am assuming the smaller box.  The double box was2? (as far as I know) intended to support the use of a KDA50 which.> drew too much power to run un in the same box as the rest of a	 MicroVAX.e   bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:22:25 -0500w' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>S Subject: Re: VMS troublesi< Message-ID: <howard-0EF60C.00222501012003@enews.newsguy.com>  / In article <v13cqde45bck56@corp.supernews.com>,|'  "vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu> wrote:.  K > Recently at my place of employment the main hard disc that held our os ondJ > the Microvax 2 that we have died and we replaced it with a new one.  OurN > problem is that currently we have a full backup of the previous disc that weK > need to get onto the new disc.  Unfortunatly the firmware on the vax willtM > not recognize this new disc.  The /SHOW DEVICES command does not even work,wK > it returns an 18 INV DGT (invalid digit) error.  I have been able to booteK > off a stand alone bootable TK50 tape and run the backup/image mua0: dua0:nM > command.  This is where it tells me that there is no hard disc however.  If D > anyone could help me out it would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   1) What have you booted from?>& 2) What version of VMS are you running 3) What have you backed up to?& 4) Have you done a SYSMAN IO AUTO yet?   -- a4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 00:20:59 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: VMS troublesP) Message-ID: <03010100205955@antinode.org>i  ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>>   > 1) What have you booted from?       TK50, apparently.  ( > 2) What version of VMS are you running      What does it matter?     > 3) What have you backed up to?      TK50, apparently.  ( > 4) Have you done a SYSMAN IO AUTO yet?  C    I hope not.  It's a VAX.  Also, if all he can boot is StandalonerH BACKUP and the diagnostic tape, "SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL" is not likely to do much for him either.  D    By the way, I tried sending him some possibly helpful e-mail, but have heard nothing.i  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547C   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Dec 2002 20:53:25 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <aut045$9mtr4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>U  5 In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.52.49.342759@mail.com>,G! 	"pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes:C5 > On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 +0000, JF Mezei wrote:D > 
 >> pfr wrote:  >>> N >>> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client when >>> connecting to a Vax? A >>  M >> As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links (telnet,D >> RS232 and I think LAT)P >> UO >> However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to the vax andO >> from there: >> X; >> $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.addressF >> $CREATE/TERMINAL  >>  8 >> (help create/terminal will give you more information) >>  Z >> This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation with full VT emulation. > " > When I try, I get the following: > 9 > $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=192.168.1.100n > $ CREATE/TERMINALo( > XIO:  unable to open connection _WSA4:E >       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining.t- > %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open displaym >  > $ SHOW DISPLAY shows >     Device:    WSA4:  [super]u >     Node:      192.168.1.100 >     Transport: TCPIP >     Server:    0 >     Screen:    0 > A > I am running DecWindows, on a 4000 VLC with a graphics monitor.o >   I Did you go into the Security tab and allow access for the remote machine?    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 15:30:00 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton)y: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?3 Message-ID: <g3I3$ngenjOL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.23.50.459818@mail.com>, "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes: <snip> > I > Just tried C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002, for Linux.  When I try to usee6 > the Kermit command "set terminal type", it displays: >  > SET TERMINAL TYPE ...'I >   This command is not available because this version of Kermit does nottI >   include a terminal emulator.  Instead, it is a "semitransparent pipe"gG >   (or a totally transparent one, if you configure it that way) to thevE >   computer or service you have made a connection to.  Your console,hK >   workstation window, or the terminal emulator or terminal from which you . >   are running Kermit provides the emulation. > L > Perhaps an older version included an emulator.  It uses the $TERM variableI > in Linux.  So if I understand it correctly, with this version of Kermitl, > Linux needs to support VT200/300 directly.  1 Can you tell us why you need VT220/320 emulation?   H I tried C-Kermit 8.0.(mumble) from my intel box running FreeBSD 4.7, andO TELNETed into my VMS box.  I did a "$set term/dev=vt100", and proceeded to edit K my login.com file using "$edit/tpu".  Function keys F4 through F8 seemed toa6 work, with F5 becoming the equivalent of the "DO" key.  N For simple editing tasks, this seems to be adequate, and those folks who wish O to spend some time can probably figure out how to map more "LK"-style keys ontofM the remaining function keys (and keypad keys - I didn't "test" any of those).c  O Did you just want to edit files, or did you need the 220/320 emulation for more  complicated tasks?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:35:54 GMTi From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.22.37.59.226620@mail.com>u  : On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:53:25 +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  7 > In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.52.49.342759@mail.com>,H# > 	"pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes:r6 >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 +0000, JF Mezei wrote: >> m >>> pfr wrote: >>>> oJ >>>> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client >>>> when connecting to a Vax? >>> E >>> As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links-# >>> (telnet, RS232 and I think LAT)n >>> H >>> However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to the >>> vax and from there:  >>> < >>> $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.address >>> $CREATE/TERMINAL >>> 9 >>> (help create/terminal will give you more information)e >>> H >>> This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation with >>> full VT emulation. >> -# >> When I try, I get the following:0 >> 2< >> $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=192.168.1.100 $ >> CREATE/TERMINAL) >> XIO:  unable to open connection _WSA4:rF >>       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining.. >> %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open display >>   >> $ SHOW DISPLAY showsb  >>     Device:    WSA4:  [super] >>     Node:      192.168.1.100  >>     Transport: TCPIPa >>     Server:    0g >>     Screen:    0i >> dB >> I am running DecWindows, on a 4000 VLC with a graphics monitor. >> m >> tB > Did you go into the Security tab and allow access for the remote
 > machine? >  > bill  I I added access on the security tab, and that didn't seem to help.  I havegE no firewall enabled on either computer.  There is a hub between.  AreaE there settings in UCX or in Linux that need to be modified to supportl detached terminal sessions?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:22:37 GMTr From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.23.24.41.995609@mail.com>3  < On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:24:08 +0000, David J. Dachtera wrote:   > pfr wrote: >> l= >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:53:25 +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:3 >> @: >> > In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.52.49.342759@mail.com>,+ >> >       "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes: 9 >> >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 +0000, JF Mezei wrote:  >> >>c >> >>> pfr wrote:y >> >>>>uM >> >>>> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client2! >> >>>> when connecting to a Vax?j >> >>>H >> >>> As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links& >> >>> (telnet, RS232 and I think LAT) >> >>>K >> >>> However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to thel >> >>> vax and from there: >> >>>? >> >>> $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.address  >> >>> $CREATE/TERMINAL  >> >>>< >> >>> (help create/terminal will give you more information) >> >>>K >> >>> This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation withe >> >>> full VT emulation.= >> >>r& >> >> When I try, I get the following: >> >>s? >> >> $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=192.168.1.100 $l >> >> CREATE/TERMINAL , >> >> XIO:  unable to open connection _WSA4:I >> >>       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. 1 >> >> %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open displayo >> >>  >> >> $ SHOW DISPLAY shows# >> >>     Device:    WSA4:  [super]o" >> >>     Node:      192.168.1.100 >> >>     Transport: TCPIP >> >>     Server:    0 >> >>     Screen:    0 >> >> E >> >> I am running DecWindows, on a 4000 VLC with a graphics monitor.  >> >>n >> >>vE >> > Did you go into the Security tab and allow access for the remotea
 >> > machine?s >> >	 >> > billw >>  L >> I added access on the security tab, and that didn't seem to help.  I haveH >> no firewall enabled on either computer.  There is a hub between.  AreH >> there settings in UCX or in Linux that need to be modified to support >> detached terminal sessions? > I > No, but there is in DECwindows. IIRC, TCP/IP support is not included byh1 > default - it's an install-time option, I think.0    Thanks. That may be the problem.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:36:34 GMTn From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.23.38.40.530655@mail.com>e  8 On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:10:54 +0000, Frank da Cruz wrote:  7 > In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.23.50.459818@mail.com>,o > pfr <preilly@mail.com> wrote:nP > : On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:39:23 +0000, Alan Winston SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:; > : > In article <pan.2002.12.31.05.03.38.207913@mail.com>, & > : > "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes: > : > P > : >>Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenK > : >>connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from aeL > : >>Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems# > : >>only able to emulate a VT100.c > : > P > : > Try Kermit.  (kermit.columbia.edu if it isn't on your Linux distribution.) > :s. > If it isn't, complain to them (I'm serious). > K > : Just tried C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002, for Linux.  When I try to use 8 > : the Kermit command "set terminal type", it displays: > :  > : SET TERMINAL TYPE ...0K > :   This command is not available because this version of Kermit does notuK > :   include a terminal emulator.  Instead, it is a "semitransparent pipe"dI > :   (or a totally transparent one, if you configure it that way) to the G > :   computer or service you have made a connection to.  Your console,aM > :   workstation window, or the terminal emulator or terminal from which youy0 > :   are running Kermit provides the emulation. > : N > : Perhaps an older version included an emulator.  It uses the $TERM variableK > : in Linux.  So if I understand it correctly, with this version of Kermit.. > : Linux needs to support VT200/300 directly. > : G > C-Kermit has never included a terminal emulator.  For a more thorough0 > explanation, see:< > 2 >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckfaq.html#term > M > Brief summary: in Unix, you already have a terminal: it's your xterm window K > or your console screen, or it's the terminal or emulator you are using to = > access the Unix system by dialup, Telnet, SSH, or whatever.s > I > When it's your xterm window, you get xterm as a terminal type (which is(H > approximately like VT-100), or you can substitute Xfree86 Xterm, which > emulates VT-220. > L > What most people mean by VT-220 emulation is that they want the additionalM > F-keys.  When you are using any Xterm at all, you can do that with Xmodmap.l7 > Follow the references from the URL above for details.i > 	 > - Franke  ( Thank you for the very good explanation.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:24:08 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?' Message-ID: <3E122718.1D38ACEC@fsi.net>e  
 pfr wrote: > < > On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:53:25 +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 9 > > In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.52.49.342759@mail.com>,L* > >       "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes:8 > >> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 +0000, JF Mezei wrote: > >> > >>> pfr wrote: > >>>>L > >>>> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client  > >>>> when connecting to a Vax? > >>>oG > >>> As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links % > >>> (telnet, RS232 and I think LAT), > >>>iJ > >>> However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to the > >>> vax and from there:  > >>>e> > >>> $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.address > >>> $CREATE/TERMINAL > >>>o; > >>> (help create/terminal will give you more information)r > >>> J > >>> This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation with > >>> full VT emulation. > >>% > >> When I try, I get the following:  > >>> > >> $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=192.168.1.100 $ > >> CREATE/TERMINAL+ > >> XIO:  unable to open connection _WSA4:iH > >>       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining.0 > >> %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open display > >> > >> $ SHOW DISPLAY shows$" > >>     Device:    WSA4:  [super]! > >>     Node:      192.168.1.100e > >>     Transport: TCPIPd > >>     Server:    0w > >>     Screen:    0p > >>D > >> I am running DecWindows, on a 4000 VLC with a graphics monitor. > >> > >>D > > Did you go into the Security tab and allow access for the remote > > machine? > >g > > bill > K > I added access on the security tab, and that didn't seem to help.  I haverG > no firewall enabled on either computer.  There is a hub between.  ArehG > there settings in UCX or in Linux that need to be modified to supporty > detached terminal sessions?m  G No, but there is in DECwindows. IIRC, TCP/IP support is not included bys/ default - it's an install-time option, I think.,   -- d David J. Dachtera" dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:24:39 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?' Message-ID: <3E122737.F634E024@fsi.net>t   GreyCloud wrote: >  > pfr wrote: > >.N > > Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenI > > connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from aeJ > > Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems! > > only able to emulate a VT100.- > >- > > Thanks,e > < > Under RedHat 7.1 I just used the program called Eterm.  It( > worked fine to my vaxstation 4000 vlc.   Does Eterm come with RH Linux?   -- D David J. DachteraX dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?/ Message-ID: <3E1131D6.24D9D48E@vl.videotron.ca>i  
 pfr wrote: > L > Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client when > connecting to a Vax? a  J As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links (telnet, RS232 and I think LAT)  L However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to the vax and from there:m  8 $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.address $CREATE/TERMINAL s  5 (help create/terminal will give you more information)l  W This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation with full VT emulation.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:12:22 -0800)" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?( Message-ID: <3E126AA6.9FF703F4@mist.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > > > > > Under RedHat 7.1 I just used the program called Eterm.  It* > > worked fine to my vaxstation 4000 vlc. >   > Does Eterm come with RH Linux? >   ! Yes.  It's on the Power Tools CD.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.001 ************************caleK to - and while 8 nodes may be all Sun aspires to, that's extremely limitingsC for other kinds of useful configurations (especially when you start-9 including intelligent shared storage nodes in the total).e   >mӪ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    ÞӪ    ĞӪ    ŞӪ    ƞӪ    ǞӪ    ȞӪ    ɞӪ    ʞӪ    ˞Ӫ    ̞Ӫ    ͞Ӫ    ΞӪ    ϞӪ    ОӪ    ўӪ    ҞӪ    ӞӪ    ԞӪ    ՞Ӫ    ֞Ӫ    מӪ    ؞Ӫ    ٞӪ    ڞӪ    ۞Ӫ    ܞӪ    ݞӪ    ޞӪ    ߞӪ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ     Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    	Ӫ    
Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    
Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ     Ӫ    !Ӫ    "Ӫ    #Ӫ    $Ӫ    %Ӫ    &Ӫ    'Ӫ    (Ӫ    )Ӫ    *Ӫ    +Ӫ    ,Ӫ    -Ӫ    .Ӫ    /Ӫ    0Ӫ    1Ӫ    2Ӫ    3Ӫ    4Ӫ    5Ӫ    6Ӫ    7Ӫ    8Ӫ    9Ӫ    :Ӫ    ;Ӫ    <Ӫ    =Ӫ    >Ӫ    ?Ӫ    @Ӫ    AӪ    BӪ    CӪ    DӪ    EӪ    FӪ    GӪ    HӪ    IӪ    JӪ    KӪ    LӪ    MӪ    NӪ    OӪ    PӪ    QӪ    RӪ    SӪ    TӪ    UӪ    VӪ    WӪ    XӪ    YӪ    ZӪ    [Ӫ    \Ӫ    ]Ӫ    ^Ӫ    _Ӫ    `Ӫ    aӪ    bӪ    cӪ    dӪ    eӪ    fӪ    gӪ    hӪ    iӪ    jӪ    kӪ    lӪ    mӪ    nӪ    oӪ    pӪ    qӪ    rӪ    sӪ    tӪ    uӪ    vӪ    wӪ    xӪ    yӪ    zӪ    {Ӫ    |Ӫ    }Ӫ    ~Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    ßӪ    ğӪ    şӪ    ƟӪ    ǟӪ    ȟӪ    ɟӪ    ʟӪ    ˟Ӫ    ̟Ӫ    ͟Ӫ    ΟӪ    ϟӪ    ПӪ    џӪ    ҟӪ    ӟӪ    ԟӪ    ՟Ӫ    ֟Ӫ    ןӪ    ؟Ӫ    ٟӪ    ڟӪ    ۟Ӫ    ܟӪ    ݟӪ    ޟӪ    ߟӪ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    Ӫ    