/ INFO-VAX	Wed, 01 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 2       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a  A New Year SYMBOL  Attunity Connect* Re: C RTL Patch Kit Dependent on SYS Patch% Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets? 5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?  Re: E-mailing pgm output Re: Happy New Year Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: Link errors. Re: MAIL as a filing cabinet1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching 1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching   Re: Pathworks - service Netlogon	 Re: rrd40 	 Re: rrd40 	 Re: rrd40 	 Re: rrd40  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles; Re: Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-21 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client? 1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:20:05 +0100 (CET) , From: Anonymous <nobody@remailer.privacy.at>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...B Message-ID: <94a7a05952af9e1c112d0fdcabbbe6bb@remailer.privacy.at>     ? > Homophobic?  Let's be real.  3% of the world is of that bent.     "3% sounds dubiously low to me."  : National Center for Health Statistics in a survey that ran? from 1988 to 1991 found the percentage to be 3.5%.  Sample size D of 50000 male respondents.  Various other surveys put the percentageF anywhere from 1% to 14%.  But well run surveys fall in the 3-4 percent range.  > The oft cited 10% figure comes from a flawed Kinsey study thatA surveyed of all people groups male prisoners.  We know you really B don't want to pick up that bar of soap when you drop it in prison.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:08:01 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12aL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0101031008010001@user-2ive2c5.dialup.mindspring.com>  8 In article <3E0B47EB.1C5C60CC@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  P >> > Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provideG >> > formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX 	 customers N >> > want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or	 >> > IAF.  >  > O >I am very surprised and extremely disapointed if Mr Gorham actually said that. O >The way i see it,  they (HP) are trying to find reasons NOT to provide support 
 >for VAX-VMS.   J You are surprised that he mentioned requests he has gotten from customers?  N >You cannot FORCE customers to do anything. You have to make customers WANT toO >do something. If you force them to upgrade from vax to alpha and then to IA64, / >they will just migrate once to something else.   H Nothing in the above statement implies that HP is trying to force anyone= to do anything.  It refers to customers trying to force their " pointy-haired managers to upgrade.  A I doubt HP wants to stop supporting VMS on VAXes, since they make  boatloads of money doing it.  H If enough customers ask for VAX-Alpha-Itanium clusters, I expect HP willD do the formal testing and support them.  I also expect that it wouldJ happen well after the Alpha-Itanium clusters already on the roadmap, since: the testing effort would be very large and time-consuming.   <tedious ranting snipped>    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:46:15 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: A New Year SYMBOL0 Message-ID: <00A1950B.7CC1767B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  N Some time ago I decided to make SYMBOL freely available.  The only requirementM is that the user register any machines which will run SYMBOL.  You can obtain N a PAK for SYMBOL and the SYMBOL installation kit by following the links on the9 page at the following URL:  http://www.tmesis.com/symbol/   . Happy New Year and let's hope it's a good one. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:16:45 +01002 From: rossbach.dieter@t-online.de (Dieter Robach) Subject: Attunity Connect / Message-ID: <auv0os$8g3$01$1@news.t-online.com>   5 Anybody out their sing Attunity Connect with OpenVMS?   N I tested it successfully using CSWS1.3, PHP, ODBC and Rdb7 and a test license  form AC.M No I want to get it up and running with oracle8, as a license for Oracle8 is  P included in VMS 7.3-1. The Attunity Connect Support Matrix says it is supported P with AC 3.4 and AXP, but the AC documentation for VMS still request Oracle7 and 7 there seems to be no setup/link procedure for Oracle 8.   D So, what's the status? And if it is supported, what do I have to do.   Happy New Year   Dieter     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:14:37 -0500 : From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonNO@SPAMhp.com>3 Subject: Re: C RTL Patch Kit Dependent on SYS Patch ) Message-ID: <3E11EC9D.D84165D@SPAMhp.com>    Robbie Benton wrote:  F > I downloaded the ACRTL V0100 Patch kit for OpenVMS V7.3-1 yesterday.> > It appears to have a fix for a problem we were experiencing. > E > Howver, it states you must install SYS V0200 Patch kit prior to the E > installation of this kit.  However, SYS V0200 Patch has a note that = > there is a problem with it and should not be installed on a  > uniprocessor system. >  > What is a person to do?  >  > Robbie  H I'll try to check on the SYS kit issue.  I have email out to the kitting@ folks.  I may not get any fast answer this week however (various! holidays and vacation schedules).   H The requirement for that kit is that the CRTL needs a patch for multipleA openings of shared images.   This is required for the CRTL to set D DECC$CRTLMAP system logical to the running DECC$SHR.EXE image to setF versioning (__CRTL_VER macro).  I believe this is only an issue if youH run the C compiler, not if you need the CRTL for Java (and don't plan to compile any C programs).   Charlie  CRTL engineering   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:48:41 GMT - From: "Todd Nelson" <toddnelson_@hotmail.com> . Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?2 Message-ID: <ddDQ9.1426$Xy2.1402524@nnrp1.ptd.net>  J This happened to me also.  I had a DS10 that kept crashing - and it turnedJ out to be that I needed to manually set the network equipment to 100Base-TE FD - because the network card won't auto negotiate with the switch... > causing lots of errors - and eventually the connectivity loss.   Just a thought.    Todd.     = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ( news:3E114386.4880721@vl.videotron.ca... > This has happened twice now: > J > MAC has a Appleshar connection to BIKE, mapped to a drive MSCP served by VELO. & > All are on same ethernet (thinwire). > G > After a long while of the MAC sending to BIKE, VELO's OPCOM goes wild  stating L > it has lost connection to BIKE. BIKE's screen doesn't show anything. A fewK > minutes later, BIKE decides to kill itself and reboots. ANA/ERROR reveals  lost4 > connectivity betwene the two nodes. (eg: ethernet) > J > This has happened sporadically a few times , but not often enough for me toK > worry. But in the past 2 days, it has happened as I tried to backup a mac 4 > drive onto my vax with the Pathworks MAC software. >  > - > What would be more likely in your opinion ?  > J > Faulty hardware on the ethernet that would go nuts, preventing VELO from > keeping in touch with BIKE?  > K > Just too much traffic on the ethernet, ovrwhelming both VELO and BIKE who  > can't keep up ?  >  > Anything else ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:57:18 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) ' Message-ID: <3E1212BE.FE72BF98@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > d > In article <3E106A84.6010004@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote: > > J > >>    Yes, it looks like it is.  So why didn't any of the IP vendors for* > >>    VMS choose it for binary transfer? > >  > > 7 > > Traditionally a VMS binary file has been fixed 512.  > H >    Can't agree on that.  Other than the linker I don't think I saw anyH >    program write fixed 512 binary files before I added a TCP/IP stack.3 >    And the image activator doesn't actually care.    Try a DIRECTORY/FULL of:   o any .%LB file (LIBRARIAN)    o a .ZIP archive on VMS   2 o an image file such as .JPG or a .DIF, .TIF, etc.  G I'm sure there must be others, but I'm not coming up with examples just C now. I was going to include .TAR archives, but I think those can be 2 either Fixed_512 or Stream_LF. Likewise .GZ files.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 01:23:25 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>> Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?( Message-ID: <3E12B38D.F16BAB50@mist.com>   Jerry Leslie wrote:  > 4 > Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: > : H > : A lot of routers may have this feature turned off so you cannot do a/ > : complete traceroute and find routers etc... J > : Most of the companies I have been in over the past few years generallyJ > : have ping and traceroute capabilities turned off for security reasons. > :  > > > The Windows 'tracert' works, but it uses ICMP echo requests. > H > This is a home LAN with a soho router on a residential AOL Time Warner > Road Runner cable modem. > 7 > I'm starting to suspect another Linksys firmware bug.  >   < You maybe correct in this assertion.  My Vaxstation 4000 vlc7 won't work thru the Linksys router either.  I read your / first post and tried the same commands. No joy.  The Solaris side works ok tho.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:55:42 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?; Message-ID: <yYFQ9.99054$Nz5.2645535@twister.austin.rr.com>   # GreyCloud (cumulus@mist.com) wrote:  : > : You maybe correct in this assertion.  My Vaxstation 4000 vlc9 : won't work thru the Linksys router either.  I read your 1 : first post and tried the same commands. No joy.   : The Solaris side works ok tho. : B What versions of Linksys firmware and TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS  are you running ?   G I have read some posts in the comp.dcom.modems.cable and comp.dcom.xdsl A that claim Netgear routers' firmware is more stable than Linksys.   2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:59:24 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?2 Message-ID: <3E132C4A.7C72DE5F@firstdbasource.com>   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Jerry Leslie wrote:  > > 6 > > Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: > > : J > > : A lot of routers may have this feature turned off so you cannot do a1 > > : complete traceroute and find routers etc... L > > : Most of the companies I have been in over the past few years generallyL > > : have ping and traceroute capabilities turned off for security reasons. > > :  > > @ > > The Windows 'tracert' works, but it uses ICMP echo requests. > > J > > This is a home LAN with a soho router on a residential AOL Time Warner > > Road Runner cable modem. > > 9 > > I'm starting to suspect another Linksys firmware bug.  > >  > > > You maybe correct in this assertion.  My Vaxstation 4000 vlc9 > won't work thru the Linksys router either.  I read your 1 > first post and tried the same commands. No joy.   > The Solaris side works ok tho.  E Hmmm.. this used to work on my Linux and VMS boxes. Now, only the Wxx H box works... I am using Linksys also woth V1.42.7... and I just recently updated the firmware...    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:28:17 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) > Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?; Message-ID: <5rGQ9.78373$6H6.2904696@twister.austin.rr.com>   2 Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: : G : Hmmm.. this used to work on my Linux and VMS boxes. Now, only the Wxx J : box works... I am using Linksys also woth V1.42.7... and I just recently : updated the firmware...  :   D If Greycloud reports that he's using V1.42.7 too, I think we'll haveG found the smoking gun. It's interesting that traceroute on his Solaris  
 box works.  I I'm now looking at a Netgear RP614 from www.bestbuy.com up at the moment, # but Froogle may find a lower price:   !    http://www.froogle.google.com/ 
    Froogle  3    http://www.froogle.google.com/froogle/about.html     About Froogle  2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:02:04 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: E-mailing pgm output ' Message-ID: <3E1213DC.520B5455@fsi.net>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > p > In article <69d784c4.0212240802.4b3859cb@posting.google.com>, Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org (Jack Trachtman) writes:E > :We run all third party pkgs on our hosts, ie we can't modify them.  > B >   Sure you can.  (PATCH is an amazingly capable text editor. :-) > M > :Occassionaly I get user requests to be able to automatically e-mail output B > :form an app that can only either be put into a file or put into > :a print que.  > : J > :What tricks are people using to redirect this kind of output to e-mail? > H >   If placed into a print queue, find or create a symbiont which emailsG >   the enqueued messages.  There are various example symbionts around, E >   and the MAIL API is documented in the utility routines reference. G >   (It would not surprise me to learn that a symbiont already exists.)   2 The freeware EXECSYMB would likely be useful here.  = http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?EXECSYMB    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:51:29 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> Subject: Re: Happy New Year & Message-ID: <3E12BA21.9010008@Free.fr>   I would say more: H May 2003 bring a winning Powerball ticket to Sue so she can buy the VMS N Engineering Group and the Alpha Manufacturing Group, then start a new Company 5 that she could name "Dear Engineers Company" (DEC :-)    Happy New Year, Sue.   D.     JF Mezei a crit: O > May 2003 bring a winning Powerball ticket to Sue so she can buy VMS and Alpha P > lock stock and barrel and make it the success both Sue and VMS deserve :-) :-)	 > :-) :-)      --  5    -------------------------------------------------- 5   MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 2     19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.5   Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 5 Junior SAP consultant, affordable rates, do not hesit 4 ----------------------------------------------------3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 03 09:56:04 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <1efNbLaUHYA0@elias.decus.ch>   j In article <5.1.0.14.2.20021229205703.02340d98@raptor.psccos.com>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:" > At 08:13 PM 12/29/2002, Z wrote:( >>Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> wrote:" >>:>>Win 2000 is pretty damn good.? >>:>>Not quite Enterprise Critical quality yet, but damn close.  >>:>A >>:>Compared to what? Win98? NT4?  Certainly not compared to VMS.  >>K >>: My W2k system crashes regularly 2-3 times a week, with no more use than I >>: email and MS-Office.  On the other hand, I've had one crash on my VMS H >>: systems that I pound the heck out of in the last 6 months.  And that >>: was a hardware fault.  >>A >>With all due respect, you need a better system manager for your  >>Win 2K system. > F > With all due respect, I've been doing PC work since 1984.  This is aH > software issue, not a hardware one.  Granted W2k is head and shouldersI > above its predecessors, it's still not something I would bet a mission- # > critical business on, unlike VMS.  > G Are you sure it's not a hardware issue? When I was doing Windows stuff, B the trick was to get the correct combination of hardware, firmwareG revisions and drivers. Not easy to achieve when many PC shippers change F components from week to week, depending on where they can source them.    Matrox Millenium video card Sir?( Would that be the OEM or retail version? If the latter, which retailer? Which country was it made for?; Did it come your way via the grey market, or through proper ; channels? (with of course the caveat that "proper channels"   may cheat or simply get fooled).   See the problem?  : Now repeat with a trial run of say 20 PCs, then when happy= with the results, order the next few hundred, and see if they  are _really_ identical.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:04:19 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E121463.EFF75301@fsi.net>    Z wrote: > [snip] > Unix isn't rocket science.  ( Cleaning up its messes can sometimes be.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:08:38 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E121566.245A5D6B@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > i > In article <auqe2a$osi$1@shell.monmouth.com>, pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes:   > > Actually something like this > >  > > cd /usr/share/man  > > J > > find . -type f -print |eqn | tbl |groff -Tps -man $i |lpr -Ppostscript > > & > > Real intuitive for an end user eh? > J >    Right.  You can get that out of studying the man pages for just a few >    months. > ; >    Oh, you wanted to get the man pages?  Well, see above.    Funny you should mention that.  E When I first started to look at NetBSD some years ago, I corresponded = with a fellow who never could quite understand that since the G installation instructions are included in the man pages, you have to do G the install and unpack the manpages before you can unpack the man pages F and do the install. That is, he never quite grasped that to unpack the. man pages you must first unpack the man pages.  > Let's see now, how did that go with Harry Mudd and Norman ...?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:16:56 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E121758.FD81AC72@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > [snip] > G > People here should really learn how Unix works before criticizing it.   G Learning how UNIX works s fairly simple compared to learning the shells / and the various utilities cited in this thread.   E Would it have KILLED someone to include a "printman" utility (even if B just a one-line script containing the command string you cited) orG something similar in recognition of the fact that some of us still work  best from hard copy?  H ...one of the classic "chicken and egg" problems: to learn how to accessF the information you must first learn how to access the information. ToH learn how to do this, simply access the information per the instructions enclosed there in.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:38:23 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E121C5F.36C7117A@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <4ADhJk1axI64@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 9 >         Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: W > > In article <v132vhigd2e87b@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: A > >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: D > >> :> I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours. > >>I > >> :    I believe even a novice can learn to use help in a few minutes.  > >> > >> No argument here. > >>> > >> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword] > > B > > But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning2 > > of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-) > @ > Oh please....  That particular one has been mentioned here andC > adequately explained numerous times already.  And, although until D > I saw it mentioned here I had never heard of it and thus had neverH > used it, I thought "HELP HINTS" did pretty much the same thing anyway.  H Well, it dosn't quite do the same thing. HELP HINTS won't tell you everyH HELP topic that contains a selected keyword (hint: "-k", "keyword" - oneH of the few times a UNIX command line argument actually makes a degree of sense).   H Also, if I remembered everything I've ever touched on in my everyday VMSG activities but do not use on a daily basis, I wouldn't need either HELP D or the docset (or Google groups, for that matter!). I still use them
 almost daily.   > I don't think it's reasonable to expect VMS people to remember? UN*X-isms, especially if they are not primarily responsible for - UN*X(-like) systems in their everyday duties.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:42:16 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E121D48.A2EFC552@fsi.net>    Z wrote: > 2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:D > :> With all due respect, you need a better system manager for your > :> Win 2K system.  > 0 > : So, each W2K desktop needs a SysAdmin ???!!! > ! > No, just one for all machines.    F Sadly, that's exactly what many companies try to do: assign one person4 to manage hundreds - of not thousands - of desktops.  ) > But, just as with VMS, s/he has to have ( > a good grasp of how to manage the o/s. > I > I'm not trying to insult anyone here.  Just because Win 2K is "Windows" H > that doesn't mean you can plop it on a drive, fire it up and then walkH > away and expect everything to work w/o any hands-on system management. > G > I've seen companies when everyone has an NT machine on their desk and J > they're all admin users. (!)  The reason was: "it makes s/w installation= > easier."  That's an uptime disaster just waiting to happen.    ...and it frequently does.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 21:55:05 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v144hpdc2lr7b9@corp.supernews.com>   . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:< :> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword]  @ : But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning0 : of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-)  ; Do you mean me?  Sorry, I'll explain the utility of man -k.     ; Say you want to know the shell-level (level 1) commands for " setting / changing your password :   > man -k password | grep "(1)"? k5passwd(1), kpasswd(1)  - Kerberos 5 password changing program U keyinit(1)               - change password or add user to S/Key authentication system ^ opiepasswd(1)            - Change or set a user's password for the OPIE authentication  system3 passwd(1), yppasswd(1)   - modify a user's password _ skey(1), S/key(1)        - a procedure to use one time passwords for accessing computer systems      $ HELP HINTS PASSWORD  HINTS +   Sorry, no documentation on HINTS PASSWORD    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:44:04 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? & Message-ID: <3E121DB4.C793AC2@fsi.net>   Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3E107EDA.98C08041@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Z wrote:0 > > So, each W2K desktop needs a SysAdmin ???!!! > E >    We joke about uptime and security patches with our MS admin.  He  >    knows he has job security.    ...but not "sleep security" ;-)   D I hope he's keeping up with the latest advances in Linux desktops to$ help ensure his future job security!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:16:50 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E122562.E23959C7@fsi.net>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > [snip]4 > Personaly I wouldn't print it the PDF for the user > commands is ~1700 pages.  G The DCL dictionary has been two volumes for some time now. I'm guessing D circa. 750 sheets for both. Two-sided, that's probably close to 1500 pages.  C Then again, the entire docset. - equiv. to the ENTIRE "manual", all C chapters - was several shelves of binders, now about two shelves of  soft-cover books.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 03 11:30:18 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <044hxzZq0RWw@elias.decus.ch>   c In article <4ADhJk1axI64@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: U > In article <v132vhigd2e87b@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: ? >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote: B >> :> I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours. >>  G >> :    I believe even a novice can learn to use help in a few minutes.  >>   >> No argument here. >>  < >> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword] > @ > But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning0 > of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-)  < Oooh, I can help there. apropos does the same thing as man-k :-)   7 Here's an example of what man -k shutdown gives you :-)   4 (I've reformatted it down to 70 columns, which makes@ it a helluva a lot  more readable than the original, which wraps words across lines)    man -k shutdown   F BIO_f_ssl(3o), BIO_set_ssl(3o), BIO_get_ssl(3o), BIO_set_ssl_mode(3o),A BIO_set_s sl_renegotiate_bytes(3o), BIO_get_num_renegotiates(3o), 6 BIO_set_ssl_renegotiate_ timeout(3o), BIO_new_ssl(3o),9 BIO_new_ssl_connect(3o), BIO_new_buffer_ssl_connec t(3o), E BIO_ssl_copy_session_id(3o), BIO_ssl_shutdown(3o) - s-1SSLs0 s-1BIOs0 ? BIO_s_bio(3o), BIO_make_bio_pair(3o), BIO_destroy_bio_pair(3o), 2 BIO_shutdown_wr( 3o),  BIO_set_write_buf_size(3o),2 BIO_get_write_buf_size(3o), BIO_new_bio_pair(3 o),> BIO_get_write_guarantee(3o), BIO_ctrl_get_write_guarantee(3o),9 BIO_get_read_ request(3o), BIO_ctrl_get_read_request(3o), 9 BIO_ctrl_reset_read_request(3o) - s- 1BIOs0 pair s-1BIOs0 ? SSL_CTX_set_quiet_shutdown(3o), SSL_CTX_get_quiet_shutdown(3o), D SSL_set_quiet_sh utdown(3o), SSL_get_quiet_shutdown(3o) - manipulate? shutdown behaviour SSL_set_shutdown(3o), SSL_get_shutdown(3o) - M manipulate shutdown state of an s-1 SSLs0 connection SSL_shutdown(3o)         A - shut down a s-1TLS/SSLs0 connection init_mib(3), add_mibdir(3), B init_mib_internals(3), add_module_replacement(3), re ad_module(3),B read_mib(3), read_all_mibs(3), read_objid(3), read_module_node(3),8 get_module_node(3), read_objid snmp_set_mib_warnings(3),> snmp_set_save_descript ions(3), shutdown_mib(3), print_mib(3),3 print_variable(3), print_value(3), print _objid(3), ( print_description(3) - mib_api functionsE shutdown(2)              - shut down part of a full-duplex connection @ shutdown(8)              - close down the system at a given time (END)   = Now your quest is to get out of it - CTRL/C won't let you :-) C Answer: Q or E. CTRL/Z does get me back to the command line prompt, , but with the mysterious message "Suspended".  = Doing a "ps -ax" shows that I now have 1 "man -k" process, 2  B "sh /usr/bin/apropos shutdown" processes, and a "less -se" processA running as the final result of my above efforts (OK I did it more  than once).   B Then of course, my very first Linux system told me about shutdown,= but when I tried that, it simply gave me "Command not found", @ because I didn't issue it from the root account. The point aboutD that one is that from my VMS background something like "No privilege> for attempted operation" I would have understood and logged on? as root forthwith. Instead I believed that something was broken A with the installation (plenty else was), so hit the power switch, > to be rewarded with the delight of fsck churning away scanning	 the disk.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 2003 11:56:46 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 6 Message-ID: <20030101115646.10344.qmail@gacracker.org>  7 On 1 Jan 03, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   H >Are you sure it's not a hardware issue? When I was doing Windows stuff,C >the trick was to get the correct combination of hardware, firmware H >revisions and drivers. Not easy to achieve when many PC shippers changeG >components from week to week, depending on where they can source them.   ; >Now repeat with a trial run of say 20 PCs, then when happy > >with the results, order the next few hundred, and see if they >are _really_ identical.    J One place I was working had 10 PCs delivered from Compaq, all preinstalledJ with Win98 and working reasonably well until some idiot decided to installF an old version of Norton AV on them. It didn't support FAT32, and theyC installed it on every single one so I had to reinstall all of them.   C At that point I discovered there were at least 3 different hardware # configurations in the batch of PCs.   J [Of course, the "idiot" who left me with all this work to do was the boss,K and that particular office was not licensed to use Norton. Instead they had + an up to date support contract for McAfee.]      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net1   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 03 12:05:25 +0100a) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)H' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?r) Message-ID: <NlwB+Zoh2$W$@elias.decus.ch>   [ In article <3E122562.E23959C7@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:	 >> [snip]c5 >> Personaly I wouldn't print it the PDF for the userc >> commands is ~1700 pages.  > I > The DCL dictionary has been two volumes for some time now. I'm guessingrF > circa. 750 sheets for both. Two-sided, that's probably close to 1500 > pages. >r   Part 1 - 524 pages Part 2 - 546 pages   Total 1070 pages. V7.3-1 PDFs.  sE > Then again, the entire docset. - equiv. to the ENTIRE "manual", all E > chapters - was several shelves of binders, now about two shelves ofr > soft-cover books.e >   A Of course, the DCL dictionary is only one part of the entire set.r   -- a
 Paul Sture Switzerlanda   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:15:27 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?s) Message-ID: <3E12E9EF.1090803@vajhoej.dk>c   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  + > In article <3E11DDA6.8050002@vajhoej.dk>,,( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >>on any box or: >>   help xcopyr >>   man xcopy" >>on a recent flavour of Windows ! >> > K > Again, there are no manual pages on Windows, so why have a "man" command.l    5 That is the whole point we have been trying to make !e  8 People generally do not know that there are a concept of. "manual pages" activated by the "man" command.  ! But they do know what help means.o  < And that is why "help" command is better than "man" command., Because people can figure out what to write.  ) That is why help wins first set over man.o  ; And when help without arguments actually produces somethinge3 usable and man does not, then 2-0 to help over man.t  I > It seems the real argument here is the lack of a user help command like D > VMS has on Unix.  Being as it would be relatively trivial to write    B Yes. Ofcourse it *could* be added to Unix. But the fact is that it
 *is not* !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:28:31 +0100b6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?i) Message-ID: <3E12ECFF.9000208@vajhoej.dk>e   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  + > In article <3E11DC5C.4010302@vajhoej.dk>,z( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:A >>No. I think most VMS users today (unlike for 10 years ago) haver >>access to X. > A > That's funny.  None of the VMS machines in the data center herewD > support X for anybody but a selecet few of the SysAdmins.  Regular@ > users are limited to telneting in with something that supportsE > character cell access.  It's another one of the differences between D > me and them.  Mine have always supported DecWindows for all users.    < I definatetly think it is unusal to do something explicit to' remove people capability to run X apps.e  ? >>But not particular relevant in a discussion about how to quito >>Unix editors.i > C > Well, it is if we are going to be consistant.  It is a relativelysB > safe bet that with the exception of dinosaurs like me, most UnixA > users who have X access don't use "vi".  Sp if you are going tor@ > insist that the majority of VMS users use an Xinterface and anA > editor that understands it, then you have to allow the same fore > Unix.p    = Actually I did not said that most VMS users "used" X - I just( said they have "access to" X.N  : But yes - I assume Unix users to be as least as X oriented as VMS users. And ?s  C >      If we are going to talk about the ease/difficulty of exitingnC > a character cell editor, then let's keep the comparison the same.cC > How does one exit EDT from full screen mode??  ^Z followed by thesH > "EXIT" command??  And how is this more obvious than <ESC> (needed only% > if not in command mode) and ":wq"??o    ? Except for the minor detail about "exit" being english word andh. "q" being an abbreviation, then you are rigth.   But noone said anything else.i  : EVE is somewhat better, because the HELP key will actually5 produice something usanle to find out how to get out.i  A >>It is my impression that GNU Emacs is and has been the de factou% >>standard emace for many many years.  > A > Perhaps in the free software world, but I doubt that any of they@ > real commercial Emacs's are based on it as opposed to the muchA > earlier PD version that resulted in all this GNU garbage in therD > first place.  The Emacs that Gnu Emacs was based on wasn't startedD > until 1984.  The Gnu Manifesto wasn't published until 1985 and theD > FSF and Gnu Project followed that.  I had already been using EMACSC > since at least 1980.  Don't give Stallman any more credit than he  > deserves. (which is none)t  E What emacs comes Linux, FreeBSD, Tru64, Solaris with (if admin chooset to install emacs) ?y   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 2003 07:57:17 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?y3 Message-ID: <AEkZwh3Nmeja@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  S In article <v14rjf2b5d9ve9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:@  6 > Can you use HELP for help installing HELP libraries?   	$ HELP LIBRARY$  D (The response to that command comes from the library that is already  preconfigured with VMS.)i  D Of course, as with all aspects of VMS, the non-trivial operations inE this domain are better handled by reading the documentation, which iso, considerably more detailed that HELP output.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:35:19 GMTb" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <00A19509.F5A8C680@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <v144hpdc2lr7b9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:r/ >Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:,= >:> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword]. >uA >: But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning 1 >: of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-)  >o< >Do you mean me?  Sorry, I'll explain the utility of man -k. >r >e< >Say you want to know the shell-level (level 1) commands for# >setting / changing your password :r >t >> man -k password | grep "(1)"0@ >k5passwd(1), kpasswd(1)  - Kerberos 5 password changing programV >keyinit(1)               - change password or add user to S/Key authentication system_ >opiepasswd(1)            - Change or set a user's password for the OPIE authentication  system 4 >passwd(1), yppasswd(1)   - modify a user's password` >skey(1), S/key(1)        - a procedure to use one time passwords for accessing computer systems >  >  >$ HELP HINTS PASSWORD >HINTS, >  Sorry, no documentation on HINTS PASSWORD   $ HELP HINTS USER_ENVIRONMENT  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" a   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jan 2003 01:23:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?-- Message-ID: <87el7wvl5x.fsf@prep.synonet.com>1  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > Not to mention the fact that "vim" being a clone of "vi" exits the> > same way and that EMACS uses an even more obscure set of key> > combinations to exit (ie. ^X^C -- now that's intuitive!! :-)   # emacsn
 ::pop::read::l  < Exit Emacs         (Or type Control-x followed by Control-c)   ...   = Don't need intuitive, just need usable. Find a 7 YO, and tell-A me when she is happy using vi... And you are happy answering the  9 questions :) (Yes, I have done that with emacs. 3 times.)    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.E@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:02:50 -05005 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com>e Subject: Re: Link errors. . Message-ID: <v1649ga46qqfe@corp.supernews.com>  1 "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com> wrote in messageh( news:3e10a5a2$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... >bI > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote in message 9 > news:7f15589f.0212301108.7c0afb7c@posting.google.com...y   <snip>  ; > | C v6.5 (and I think one or two earlier versions) definepE > | __STDC_VERSION__=199901L, and so I think are obligated to provideoJ > | snprintf and nan and strtof and all the other functions defined in theI > | C99 standard.  I realize the compiler and the RTL are separate pieces0I > | (owned by separate teams?), but the mismatch between what the version G > | macro claims and what's really there causes real porting headaches.8@ > | I've encountered open source packages that provide alternateG > | implementations to some functions but only make them visible if the H > | version macro says the environment is not C99-compliant; that schemeA > | fails on VMS because the compiler claims a level of standardsa) > | compliance that the RTL doesn't meet.  >aG >     All good points.  Yea...we're in a difficult position because theh
 > compilerF >     group and the CRTL group(s) are in different organizations (with > differentIH >     priorities).  We understand the CRTL group will be providing these > functions,< >     perhaps in a release before the next compiler release.  G Craig, your point about porting headaches dealing with the missing APIssG is valid, and more importantly, well understood with in VMS engineeringtA (the owners of the OpenVMS C Run Time Library).  Providing a full2> UNIX-98, C99, etc compliant RTL is a very high priority withinG engineering.  It is the cornerstone of the UNIX Application Portability I effort that we have been talking about over the last year or so, and, you-I will be hearing much more about in the future.  Our goal is to make it as.I easy to port an application from some-UNIX-flavor to VMS as it is to portg@ the application from some-UNIX-flavor to some-other-UNIX-flavor.B snprintf is very high on that list.  Some of the APIs will require significantyJ work in the base OS and some of that work is already underway (e.g. fork).  L We won't have all C-99 APIs prior to the next compiler release, but, we will definitley be rolling out some.   
 Brad McCuskerp OpenVMS C RTL Project Leader OpenVMS Engineering 
 Nashua NH USA    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 03 10:49:42 +0100o) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)A% Subject: Re: MAIL as a filing cabinete) Message-ID: <CzeafKG6Jk6O@elias.decus.ch>i  b In article <3E113617.D8179421@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:M > I had been toying with the idea of moving all of my ALL-IN-1 documents to amO > VMSmail database, which means I could use the character cell and decwindows , & > as well as imap access to documents. > H > However, looking at the VMSmail services (MAIL$routines etc), it seesmP > impossible to create a document per say. One can only send a document as a new1 > message and have it stay in the NEWMAIL folder.o > O > Has anyone found a way to create a mail message and store it in any folder ink > one's mail files ? >   3 Fortunately, I asked a similar question last March.o   See ^ http://groups.google.ch/groups?selm=00A0B019.156E6AE3%40SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU&output=gplain  = (sorry if that wraps - alternatively in Google Groups, enter:i   comp.os.vms mail extract sture  0 and look for Alan Winston's reply to my request.  + Now, Alan's answer was wrong in one detail.e  " MAIL> FILE/ALL NEWFOLDER  MAIL.MAI   should readj  " MAIL> COPY/ALL NEWFOLDER  MAIL.MAI  = as the FILE command wants to remove the original from an ISAM1 file, which the extract is not.n  B One other caveat. If like me, you have your default mail directoryD set to <.MAIL>, the initial extract will go to your current default.: The easiest way is to rename the extract to <.MAIL> first.  H I suggest that you do what I just did now to ensure I wasn't sending youL down the wrong path. Send yourself a couple of test messages, file them in aF test folder, EXTRACT/ALL from that folder to see what format they comeM in (note that tabs are used in the header layout - e.g. From:<tab>SenderName,pD and that the personal name and date/time start at specific offsets )  L Then import them into MAIL and note that they retain the original sender and date/time details.   -- r
 Paul Sture Switzerlandr   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 13:43:41 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching3 Message-ID: <qriNaRWlim1s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <XZOcnXcXvfkipYyjXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:i   > I > It's much more likely that Microsoft's lack of interest centers on IB'ssH > apparent failure to become a commodity product (as had been originallyM > hoped - a parallel with Itanic that I already noted).  When the IB HCA card4H > costs about as much ($1700, according to the article you cited) as theJ > entire host server for a typical Microsoft installation, it makes one orF > even dual $70 Gbit Ethernet links look a great deal more attractive. >   < 	That $1700 is list cost.  Paceline is running a special for? 	their 4100 bundle.  For $9995 you get 4 HCAs and the 4100 and VF 	management software.  That puts the cost of the HCAs somewhere around; 	$500 if you were to break them out of the bundle (the 4100  	lists for $7995).  I > Don't get me wrong:  IB isn't both expensive and ugly like Itanic, just.
 > expensive. n  ? 	You could say that.  Likewise, a Xeon is expensive compared tot: 	a Celeron processor.  In that you are comparing somethingE 	with 1/8 the capability (comparing 4x IB to GBit Ethernet), sure it  B 	is expensive.  But at $500 per HCA and 10 Gbit throughput, can't D 	hardly beat that.  Need/want to build out and can't afford 10 GBit H 	Ethernet next year?, IB will be the way to go for a few years anyhow.    @ 	You read what some of the pundits are saying, they always trail? 	off talking about 10 GBit Ethernet.  The funny thing of coursem; 	is that it is currently very expensive and not expected to C 	become less for a while.  Very expensive compared to IB (comparingb 	Xeon to Xeon ;-).  F 	I suspect that large per HCA bundled discount is here to stay in one D 	form or other as that other poster points out there is a number of $ 	Infiniband companies out and about.  A > It should make a good high-end cluster and storage interconnectuJ > for installations that Gbit Ethernet and 2 Gbit FC (and soon 10 Gbit FC)I > can't quite satisfy - but the limited volume in that space will tend to M > *keep* it expensive, while Ethernet (and to some degree FC) prices continuee# > to fall to true commodity levels.i  ; 	At $500 per HCA, that is certainly in the same ballpark oroA 	cheaper than HBA cards.  You can gateway IB to FC (as that othertE 	poster mentions) that is surely very important so maybe 10 GBit HBAstI 	are DOA (especially if the 10 GBit FC HBA cards are very expensive) that D 	and the fact they would be one dimensional but the HCAs carry both	A 	IO and server communication (again, the number of protocols thatn 	the other poster mentions).  @ 	Now here is my personal experience.  The list price of the HBAsG 	I was quoted were $4000 per HBA a year and a half ago.  Of course you <= 	pay less than that.  Today, Emulex prices are $1200 per HBA:e  C http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/0-11015-311-1445642.htmli   	2 Gbit qlogic:a  _ http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/0-9718769-311-5619455.html?tag=st.sh.sr.pl.pr5619455   
 	$980 per.  > 	I'm sure someone will chime in and say they got them for $800 	per.e  ? 	But you see where I am heading with this.  Just suppose that aiA 	2 Gbit HBA gets down to $500 per card, they would be competitiveoC 	with the Paceline special, but not nearly as fast, less versatile,)A 	etc., etc. and you would be comparing a Celeron to a Xeon in the-	 	process.    				Robo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:21:35 -05000* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching2 Message-ID: <OP6cnV5-tchJw4-jXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:qriNaRWlim1s@eisner.encompasserve.org...-@ > In article <XZOcnXcXvfkipYyjXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >  > >eK > > It's much more likely that Microsoft's lack of interest centers on IB's<J > > apparent failure to become a commodity product (as had been originallyJ > > hoped - a parallel with Itanic that I already noted).  When the IB HCA cardJ > > costs about as much ($1700, according to the article you cited) as theL > > entire host server for a typical Microsoft installation, it makes one orH > > even dual $70 Gbit Ethernet links look a great deal more attractive. > >- >i= > That $1700 is list cost.  Paceline is running a special forn? > their 4100 bundle.  For $9995 you get 4 HCAs and the 4100 andIG > management software.  That puts the cost of the HCAs somewhere arounde< > $500 if you were to break them out of the bundle (the 4100 > lists for $7995).>  J A neutral observer rather than one attempting to place the HCA cost in theF best possible light would take the total list price of $14,795 for theK package and scale each component down by the ratio 9995/14795.  This placestH the discounted HCA price at about $1148:  better than $1700, but nothing
 like $500.   >sK > > Don't get me wrong:  IB isn't both expensive and ugly like Itanic, justa > > expensive. >i@ > You could say that.  Likewise, a Xeon is expensive compared to > a Celeron processor.  L Exactly.  And the relative volumes of the two dictate the relative prices ofG the two:  Celerons are everywhere and do the job just fine for 99.9% ofeF uses, while Xeons are *way* more expensive and used only where they're needed.g  %   In that you are comparing something E > with 1/8 the capability (comparing 4x IB to GBit Ethernet), sure it B > is expensive.  But at $500 per HCA and 10 Gbit throughput, can't > hardly beat that.h  0 1.  The $500 figure is pure fiction:  see above.  I 2.  The *overall* figure still includes the switch cost, so on a per-port L basis you're still looking at a total of close to $2K (when you include both, the HCA and the switch port it connects to).  H 3.  And of course you can beat it right out of the ballpark if you don'tK *need* 10 Gbit throughput in the first place (which most links emphatically  don't).s  1   Need/want to build out and can't afford 10 GBitJG > Ethernet next year?, IB will be the way to go for a few years anyhow.P >:A > You read what some of the pundits are saying, they always trail-@ > off talking about 10 GBit Ethernet.  The funny thing of course< > is that it is currently very expensive and not expected toD > become less for a while.  Very expensive compared to IB (comparing > Xeon to Xeon ;-).<  K You keep propping up that straw man, but it just won't stay standing.  IB'stJ competition is not, and until such time as 10 Gbit Ethernet drops below itI in price will not be, 10 Gbit Ethernet:  it's Gbit Ethernet and 1 Gbit, 2tI Gbit, and later 10 Gbit FC, which are more than adequate for most (thoughc6 not all) server-to-server and server-to-storage links.   > F > I suspect that large per HCA bundled discount is here to stay in oneD > form or other as that other poster points out there is a number of% > Infiniband companies out and about.   D Duh.  IB companies are discounting for exactly the same reasons thatJ *everyone* is discounting these days:  they'd rather survive on wafer-thinK profits than disappear before the next up-turn (when prices will, as usual,i8 rise again - especially for specialty products like IB).   > C > > It should make a good high-end cluster and storage interconnecttL > > for installations that Gbit Ethernet and 2 Gbit FC (and soon 10 Gbit FC)K > > can't quite satisfy - but the limited volume in that space will tend totF > > *keep* it expensive, while Ethernet (and to some degree FC) prices continue% > > to fall to true commodity levels.J >a< > At $500 per HCA, that is certainly in the same ballpark orB > cheaper than HBA cards.  You can gateway IB to FC (as that otherF > poster mentions) that is surely very important so maybe 10 GBit HBAsJ > are DOA (especially if the 10 GBit FC HBA cards are very expensive) thatD > and the fact they would be one dimensional but the HCAs carry bothB > IO and server communication (again, the number of protocols that > the other poster mentions).   D I guess you completely missed the entire segment of the FC spec thatJ supports inter-server protocols like IP (and 'target-mode' operation), andD the emerging SCSI-over-IP Ethernet standards (and hardware support).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:27:52 -0500o5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNosp@Mcompaq.com>t) Subject: Re: Pathworks - service Netlogon / Message-ID: <v13rtr3boca6cc@corp.supernews.com>.  / I'll bet the machine accounts are out of synch.t  L Make sure the BDC and PDC can resolve each other's NetBIOS names if they are not in the same subnet.   L Run PWCONFIG again, have it join its own, dummy domain as a PDC, then re-runJ PWCONFIG again and have it re-join the existing domain as a BDC.  Oh yeah,J better save off the SHAREDB if you have lots of shares that you don't wantK to lose, and restore it back once you have completed re-joining the domain.2  
 Brad McCuskerw OpenVMS Engineeringc    4 "Jiri Koutnik" <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz> wrote in message% news:1041238458.894058@krakonosovo...: > error message>% > nodex> admin start service netlogonoG > %PWRK-I-SVCOPWAIT, attempting to start the "NETLOGON" service on nodefB > %PWRK-E-SVCOPFAILED, start of service "NETLOGON" on nodex failedG > -LM-E-SVCFAILAUTH, service failed to authenticate with primary domain  > controller >h3 > Its BDC Advanced Server 7.3 for OVMS, OS VMS  7.3e= > PDC is also Advanced Server 7.3 for OVMS, OS is VMS 7.2-1H1o >h > Jiri= > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in messaged0 > news:ip6P9.87555$qq5.1191278@news.chello.at...= > > In article <1041002257.57508@krakonosovo>, "Jiri Koutnik"g > <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz> writes:: > > >Netlogon doesnt start, cant move forward, any ideas ? > >. > > Yes. > >' > > 1) Describe the environment  > > 2) Describe the problemh > > 3) Read the logfilesD > > 4) check for LanMan V2 (Win95) Limits (like max.252 groups, ...)2 > > 5) upgrade to the newest version of everything? > > 6) install all available ECOs (and ask for not public ones)   > > 7) avoid using WINTEL at all > >r > > -- > > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER,) > > Network and OpenVMS system specialistt  > > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atJ > > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >  >m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 10:29:35 -0600-( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> Subject: Re: rrd401 Message-ID: <dmqdnWub-siBhY6jXTWcow@giganews.com>p  C RRD40s use the thinner caddy in two pieces, not the flip open type  D common on later drives.  The caddy 'cover' is open on one edge, the G caddy 'holder' has that edge and two 'arms' or 'antlers' that hold the 1H CD.  You disassemble the caddy, stick the CD in the 'antlers' observing C the label-side restriction, slide the holder with CD back into the eG 'cover', and hopefully leave it there.  When you load the CD, you push eH the whole caddy, holder edge first into the drive slot until it clicks. F   Then you pull the cover out and the holder/CD remains in the drive. H Push the cover in again until it clicks, and then you can remove the CD / and holder (now locked inside the cover again).h  F It was really designed for someone who had one caddy for each CD they G ever used.  Very clumsy system if you have to switch CDs all the time. aE Dirt slow too, even compared to an RRD42, which uses the later model t flip-open caddies.   Rich Jordanp     Bill Gunshannon wrote: > A > Not familiar with that particular CD drive, but I have seen twonB > different caddies used with DEC drives.  In any case, I may haveC > one.  Is this the one that was also common on old PC CDROM's?? OraB > a much thiner and less common kind??  If the first, I am certainC > I can come up with one you can have.  If the latter, I won't know D > til I get back to work on thursday.  I have never had a drive thatC > used them, but I think there may have been a few caddies in a boxe1 > of old VMS CD's I got from the datacenter here.r >  > bill >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 12:47:31 -0500M From: Everhart <ge@gce.com>] Subject: Re: rrd40+ Message-ID: <auv9k9$gl7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>i  I Let me suggest too that if you have any choice, use something more recentyF than RRD40. It will work on Vaxstation 3100, but won't be able to readF some cd-r or cd-rw disks (too little contrast) and its SCSI support isD old and it will work unreliably with newer interfaces. There is justG too much new protocol it has no idea what to do with. Get a 2x or 4x or H similar SCSI CD drive. Nearly any such will work with VMS.  I got an oldM Toshiba for my Alphastation and noticed that with reasonably current firmwaresI the thing supported boot just fine, even though it had no special jumperseL for 512 byte blocks. Finding caddies for RRD40 is getting tough too, and theH CD holder in an RRD40 caddy is very fragile. I would not want to have toH change CDs in such a beast often. When these were being shipped, ConDistG came all preloaded in RRD40 caddies and it all made sense. But no more.s   Glenn Everhart   Rich Jordan wrote:E > RRD40s use the thinner caddy in two pieces, not the flip open type sF > common on later drives.  The caddy 'cover' is open on one edge, the I > caddy 'holder' has that edge and two 'arms' or 'antlers' that hold the tJ > CD.  You disassemble the caddy, stick the CD in the 'antlers' observing E > the label-side restriction, slide the holder with CD back into the pI > 'cover', and hopefully leave it there.  When you load the CD, you push sJ > the whole caddy, holder edge first into the drive slot until it clicks. G >  Then you pull the cover out and the holder/CD remains in the drive. /J > Push the cover in again until it clicks, and then you can remove the CD 1 > and holder (now locked inside the cover again).i > H > It was really designed for someone who had one caddy for each CD they I > ever used.  Very clumsy system if you have to switch CDs all the time. nG > Dirt slow too, even compared to an RRD42, which uses the later model   > flip-open caddies. > 
 > Rich Jordan  >  >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  >>B >> Not familiar with that particular CD drive, but I have seen twoC >> different caddies used with DEC drives.  In any case, I may havelD >> one.  Is this the one that was also common on old PC CDROM's?? OrC >> a much thiner and less common kind??  If the first, I am certain D >> I can come up with one you can have.  If the latter, I won't knowE >> til I get back to work on thursday.  I have never had a drive thateD >> used them, but I think there may have been a few caddies in a box2 >> of old VMS CD's I got from the datacenter here. >> >> bill0 >> >    ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jan 2003 01:35:13 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: rrd40- Message-ID: <87adikvkmm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  . bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  ? > In article <cc5619f2.0212310932.2e1be978@posting.google.com>, + > 	jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan) writes:>  D > > Sorry, no spare caddies here either.  We have one external RRD40@ > > still in use on a VS3100-30.  It also doesn't show up at theF > > console prompt, but if you do an INIT and UNJAM it sometimes showsF > > up.  If not then BOOT DKB400 (substitute the proper drive name forD > > yours) always made it show up.  If it hadn't shown up in consoleF > > then VMS could not see it either, but once it was available to the% > > console, VMS worked fine with it.i > >    A > Not familiar with that particular CD drive, but I have seen twooB > different caddies used with DEC drives.  In any case, I may haveE > one.  Is this the one that was also common on old PC CDROM's?? Or abF > much thiner and less common kind??  If the first, I am certain I canC > come up with one you can have.  If the latter, I won't know til I_C > get back to work on thursday.  I have never had a drive that used-E > them, but I think there may have been a few caddies in a box of old_* > VMS CD's I got from the datacenter here.  C The RRD40 is a LMS drive, and use a unique CD caddie. It is nothing + like the flip-top caddies later drives use.t   -- n< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 2003 18:49:58 GMTt( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: rrd405 Message-ID: <auvd8m$altdo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>_  1 In article <dmqdnWub-siBhY6jXTWcow@giganews.com>,(+ 	Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net> writes: E > RRD40s use the thinner caddy in two pieces, not the flip open type hF > common on later drives.  The caddy 'cover' is open on one edge, the I > caddy 'holder' has that edge and two 'arms' or 'antlers' that hold the  J > CD.  You disassemble the caddy, stick the CD in the 'antlers' observing E > the label-side restriction, slide the holder with CD back into the gI > 'cover', and hopefully leave it there.  When you load the CD, you push eJ > the whole caddy, holder edge first into the drive slot until it clicks. H >   Then you pull the cover out and the holder/CD remains in the drive. J > Push the cover in again until it clicks, and then you can remove the CD 1 > and holder (now locked inside the cover again).m > H > It was really designed for someone who had one caddy for each CD they I > ever used.  Very clumsy system if you have to switch CDs all the time.  G > Dirt slow too, even compared to an RRD42, which uses the later model e > flip-open caddies. >   D Thanks for the great explanation.  I may have oen or two of them andG have no use for them at all.  I'll check when I get into work tomorrow.mG If I do have them the persone looking for them originally is welcome too them.t   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   M   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 14:03:06 +0000r) From: Antonio Carlini <arcarlini@iee.org>P& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth$ Message-ID: <3E12F51A.70302@iee.org>   Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:1 > The 10000 just seems like a glorified VAX 7000.w  8 It is. In fact, it's just a VAX 7000 with battery backup7 and a few extra services sold in the same package IIRC.i   Antonio    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:03:42 +0100w6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCEa) Message-ID: <3E13115E.4070700@vajhoej.dk>d   Jakob Erber wrote:  ' >>Reconfiguring DCE solved the problem.a    N > Should not be necessary. We could not afford to solve our configuration thisI > way. Our DCE 1.5 configuration lasts for more then 6 years now, without 1 > reconfig. What do you not unterstand about DCE?i  $ Ofcourse it should not be necesarry.  = But I do not have a clue about DCE. I only needs DCED runningh! because Bridgeworks require that.   9 It was th fastest way to solve th eproblem and it worked.l  > I am completely aware of that a site seriously using DCE could not do that.   Arne  B PS: If you have a link to a 3-4 page "DCE for dummies" guide, then      please post !   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:19:41 -0800-* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> Subject: Re: VMS troublesl2 Message-ID: <KGedne2lVbxwlI-jXTWc2Q@mpowercom.net>  0 "vmstroubles" <jmmyre@wisc.edu> wrote in message) news:v13qfu6aoe63ed@corp.supernews.com...sH > Well one of my coworkers did the install of the hard drive and he saidK > everything was hooked up right.  The previous hard disc was also an RD54.t IPG > am acutally booted into the diagnostics software right now.  The onlyh< > problem is that it refuses to accept the RQDX3 controller. >0K It is an OEM Maxtor 2190 and will not work on a uVax II out of the box.  ItaK has to be formatted on a system that uses the SMC hard disk controller chip K (i.e. not with any PC type MFM controller or factory default).  You need toeJ either format it on a Vaxstation 2000 (formatter in ROM) or find the fieldJ service tape with the formatter for the uVax II.  Nothing else is going to work.   J The SMC disk controller had it's own peculiar format that was incompatibleF with Western Digital, the de facto standard for MFM disk drives.  SameA problem occurred when moving an RD drive into a PC.  It had to beD@ reformatted before a WD controller could see the sectoring info.   Been there, done that.    Jack Peacock    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 16:55:54 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS troublese. Message-ID: <3E12044D.1B562D8@vl.videotron.ca>   vmstroubles wrote: > N > is there some sort of trick to getting inside of a microvax 2 case because i# > am having a beastly time with it.e  L You have to get into a meditation position on the floor in front of the vax,M then make incantatiosn begging for the door to open, not forgetting the magicg "open sesame" and "xyzzy".  M Alternatively, if you have the big microvax II cabinet (with air inlet on thelL left side of front, and air outlet on the right side in back), then you needL an allen key (I think 5mm). That opens the main cabinet door in the back. ItK will expose the "back door" that covers the 2 BA23 subcabinets. There are 2.M swrews to undo at the top of that door. It will hinge downwards, exposing therQ 2 Q-bus spaces where the cards are plugge in. It can be fairly messy with cables.m  G If you have the Microvax II hardware manual, I thin that there are somel drawings that explains this.   Happy new year !   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:17:18 GMTj# From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.neto Subject: Re: VMS troublesn7 Message-ID: <3e121421.3854078111@news.bellatlantic.net>>  F On 31 Dec 2002 18:09:52 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:  D >I don't even think it's a matter of might.  I am relatively certainC >if it wan't formated on a VAX running and RQDX3 controller it willpC >not work on another VAX with an RQDX3.  I am not even sure you caneD >move them formatted from a PODP11 to a VAX, but I could be wrong on >that.  I've never tried.h  C I have.  Since I have the RQDX  formatter for the RQDX1/2 and RQDX3tC it's easier to do it in the PDP11. Q-bus is Q-bus.  I've also taken C disks that unlike the RD5x series and formatted them and used them.b  @ The alternate is a MV2000 as that has the same hardware as RQDX3! and the formatter is in firmware.   9 Worst case is I do have the oddball SMC chipped hard diskg@ controller for a S100 machine  But the CP/M doesn't sound exotic enough for most.  @ I consider it a bonanza when I find a servicable Maxtor2190 (any9 version) as formatting and testing make them very usable.j   Allisont   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:24:26 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: VMS troubleso< Message-ID: <howard-B14CD7.11242601012003@enews.newsguy.com>  A In article <03010100205955@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org wrote:r   >    What does it matter?l  G Yes.  There have been bugs in some versions of BACKUP, and the feature n@ set of VMS changes with the version.  An example follows, below.    E >    I hope not.  It's a VAX.  Also, if all he can boot is StandaloneiJ > BACKUP and the diagnostic tape, "SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL" is not likely > to do much for him either.  H VAXen can do the SYSMAN IO AUTO thing too, if they're running a version  of VMS with SYSMAN, IIRC.G   -- s4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:49:12 -0600 (CST)o From: sms@antinode.org Subject: Re: VMS troubless) Message-ID: <03010111491237@antinode.org>t  ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>r  E > > In article <03010100205955@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org wrote:  >  > >    What does it matter?s > I > Yes.  There have been bugs in some versions of BACKUP, and the feature lB > set of VMS changes with the version.  An example follows, below.  E    That was, "What does it matter?", not "What, does it matter?".  InsG any case, he claims to have a new RD54-equivalent disk which Standalone I BACKUP and MDM can't find.  That does not sound like a BACKUP bug to me. 0B Anyone else?  (Don't worry about the missing example for my sake.)  + [ > 4) Have you done a SYSMAN IO AUTO yet?]3  G > >    I hope not.  It's a VAX.  Also, if all he can boot is StandalonewL > > BACKUP and the diagnostic tape, "SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL" is not likely > > to do much for him either. > J > VAXen can do the SYSMAN IO AUTO thing too, if they're running a version  > of VMS with SYSMAN, IIRC..  H    But he's not running normal VMS, just Standalone BACKUP and MDM.  VMSH V5.5-2 doesn't have it, and that's the newest/biggest thing I'd put on a6 159MB disk drive.  Also, from the SYSMAN HELP on V7.2:   Topic? io auto   IO     AUTOCONFIGURE0  ;        This command is for use on Alpha systems only. [...]R  C    Of course, that could be an error, but I (and SYSMAN) think not:H   SYSMAN> io autocF %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \IO\L      Apparently, YRI.e  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode.org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547D   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:05:39 +0000 (UTC)3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>tD Subject: Re: Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-210 Message-ID: <auvali$45h$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  	 Hi Brian,r   Thanks for the reply.   F > I don't know what is was that you were doing but you can't expect toE > pass data to an inner mode via registers.  The dispatcher will steptD > all over many registers on its way to handing control to your code > at an inner mode.   K So it doesn't preserve them, do what it has to do and then reset them? Then K how do you pass arguments to an inner mode routine? OVR PSECTS? The callingSJ standard is suspended for inner mode calls? I'll take your word for it butJ somehow the compiler was able to fixup references to the integer registersI because, as I said in my original note, their contents appear as expected-
 "first time".n  L Maybe it's a coincidence but all three arguments (in my case) started off asI expected. My testing wasn't exhaustive but at first glance it looked like1H the initial references to r16-21 and the AI were mapped correctly by theD compiler to its copy of the arg list but subsequent references (if IG understood you correctly) pulled down the current undefined contents of-6 these registers. Is John Reagan around or on holidays?  G Anyway someone else mailed me directly and pointed out that I can still J reference the "AP" *without* having to home my argument list. So I checkedL the manuals and substituted HOME_ARGS=TRUE for QUAD_ARGS=TRUE and everythingG looks peachy. The fact that 8(AP) is 16 bytes away from the AP might be ) confusing but I'll do more testing later.9  H Has anyone out there ever set the plv$m_64_bit_args bit in the exec mode% flags field of the PLV with MACRO-32?o  K (I was testing calling my UWSS with a 64 bit address that was returned fromlH $expreg_64 va$c_p2 and quite rightly I was returned ss$_arg_gtr_32_bits.J When I set the above flag I just get ACCVIO [not from my code but possiblyE from the marshalling/unmarshalling of the ARG list>] More than likelyRI something I'm doing but if you have an example then that would be great.)e  H Cheers Richard (I'm still sitting on Richmond foreshore waiting for your call) Maher.  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A191C4.049B989B@SendSpamHere.ORG...A > In article <aujsum$f6t$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher"(% <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:) > >Hi, > > I > >I am trying to move away from Homing my argument lists for that littler extradJ > >performance and so that I can cater for 64-bit arguments and addresses.J > >Everything was coming along swimmingly in USER mode but when I tried toK > >process my argument list in a User-Written System Service in EXEC mode IaK > >encountered some odd behaviour. Typically the integer argument registerso ando, > >the AI appear to be Read-Once structures? > >aG > >Instructions that appear to alter the contents of integer registers:a > >a > >IFNOWRT R16,(R17),10$I > >IFNOWRT #2,(R18),10$     ; Nothing but the PROBEW has now changed R18?l > >oH > >Or this to check for arg_count and illegal floating-point arguments:- > >i > >CMPB R25,#nargn > >   :      :      :     :  > >BICL3 #255,R25,R31  > > F > >If I move the registers to a scratch register (eg: R6) then R6 will happilyrG > >preserve its contents until I execute an instruction that explicitlyi altersK > >it but if I have to do that then I might as well keep HOME_ARGS=TRUE :-(n >bF > I don't know what is was that you were doing but you can't expect toE > pass data to an inner mode via registers.  The dispatcher will steptD > all over many registers on its way to handing control to your code > at an inner mode.r >i >p) > >PS. Why can't I use AI instead of R25?n >t) > You can if you use the proper language.f >t > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >h6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:21:51 GMTh From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.20.23.50.459818@mail.com>o  N On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:39:23 +0000, Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  X > In article <pan.2002.12.31.05.03.38.207913@mail.com>, "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes: > L >>Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenG >>connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from a9H >>Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems >>only able to emulate a VT100.  > L > Try Kermit.  (kermit.columbia.edu if it isn't on your Linux distribution.) > 	 > -- Alane > Q > ===============================================================================m2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056sO >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025)Q > ===============================================================================   G Just tried C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002, for Linux.  When I try to useo4 the Kermit command "set terminal type", it displays:   SET TERMINAL TYPE ... G   This command is not available because this version of Kermit does not G   include a terminal emulator.  Instead, it is a "semitransparent pipe"AE   (or a totally transparent one, if you configure it that way) to the C   computer or service you have made a connection to.  Your console,fI   workstation window, or the terminal emulator or terminal from which youn,   are running Kermit provides the emulation.  J Perhaps an older version included an emulator.  It uses the $TERM variableG in Linux.  So if I understand it correctly, with this version of Kermitn* Linux needs to support VT200/300 directly.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:50:46 GMTg From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.20.52.49.342759@mail.com>n  3 On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 01:57:48 +0000, JF Mezei wrote:u   > pfr wrote: >>  M >> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whene >> connecting to a Vax?  > L > As someone else suggested, Kermit is your friend for simple links (telnet, > RS232 and I think LAT) > N > However, you might just use a simple telnet client to connect to the vax and
 > from there:a > : > $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=your.ip.address > $CREATE/TERMINAL - > 7 > (help create/terminal will give you more information)p > Y > This will start an X-terminal session on your Linux workstation with full VT emulation.D    When I try, I get the following:  7 $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=192.168.1.100, $ CREATE/TERMINALo& XIO:  unable to open connection _WSA4:C       after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. + %DECW-E-CANT_OPEN_DISPL, Can't open displayu   $ SHOW DISPLAY shows     Device:    WSA4:  [super]t     Node:      192.168.1.100     Transport: TCPIP     Server:    0     Screen:    0  ? I am running DecWindows, on a 4000 VLC with a graphics monitor.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:45:29 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?( Message-ID: <3E120FF9.C4FCF901@mist.com>  
 pfr wrote: > L > Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenG > connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from a H > Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems > only able to emulate a VT100.s > 	 > Thanks,c  : Under RedHat 7.1 I just used the program called Eterm.  It& worked fine to my vaxstation 4000 vlc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:01:30 GMTn From: "pfr" <preilly@mail.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?5 Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.31.22.03.35.913597@mail.com>G  ? On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 15:30:00 +0000, Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:s  = > In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.23.50.459818@mail.com>, "pfr" # > <preilly@mail.com> writes: <snip>B >> hJ >> Just tried C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002, for Linux.  When I try to use7 >> the Kermit command "set terminal type", it displays:e >>   >> SET TERMINAL TYPE ...J >>   This command is not available because this version of Kermit does not > 3 > Can you tell us why you need VT220/320 emulation?o > J > I tried C-Kermit 8.0.(mumble) from my intel box running FreeBSD 4.7, andI > TELNETed into my VMS box.  I did a "$set term/dev=vt100", and proceedediH > to edit my login.com file using "$edit/tpu".  Function keys F4 throughE > F8 seemed to work, with F5 becoming the equivalent of the "DO" key.i > J > For simple editing tasks, this seems to be adequate, and those folks whoA > wish to spend some time can probably figure out how to map morenG > "LK"-style keys onto the remaining function keys (and keypad keys - IC > didn't "test" any of those). > H > Did you just want to edit files, or did you need the 220/320 emulation > for more complicated tasks?e  G I'm mainly wanting to edit files, but I'm using a modified TPU keyboard I layout that I've used for quite a while that uses the application keypad,o "Gold Key", and functions keys.o   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Dec 2002 18:10:54 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz): Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?1 Message-ID: <aut85u$ltb$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>s  5 In article <pan.2002.12.31.20.23.50.459818@mail.com>,m pfr <preilly@mail.com> wrote:/N : On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 05:39:23 +0000, Alan Winston SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:9 : > In article <pan.2002.12.31.05.03.38.207913@mail.com>, $ : > "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes: : > N : >>Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenI : >>connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from aiJ : >>Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems! : >>only able to emulate a VT100.- : > N : > Try Kermit.  (kermit.columbia.edu if it isn't on your Linux distribution.) :1, If it isn't, complain to them (I'm serious).  I : Just tried C-Kermit 8.0.206, 24 Oct 2002, for Linux.  When I try to use-6 : the Kermit command "set terminal type", it displays: :  : SET TERMINAL TYPE ... I :   This command is not available because this version of Kermit does notcI :   include a terminal emulator.  Instead, it is a "semitransparent pipe".G :   (or a totally transparent one, if you configure it that way) to thefE :   computer or service you have made a connection to.  Your console,pK :   workstation window, or the terminal emulator or terminal from which youe. :   are running Kermit provides the emulation. : L : Perhaps an older version included an emulator.  It uses the $TERM variableI : in Linux.  So if I understand it correctly, with this version of Kermit7, : Linux needs to support VT200/300 directly. : E C-Kermit has never included a terminal emulator.  For a more thoroughc explanation, see:1  0   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckfaq.html#term  K Brief summary: in Unix, you already have a terminal: it's your xterm window I or your console screen, or it's the terminal or emulator you are using to9; access the Unix system by dialup, Telnet, SSH, or whatever.e  G When it's your xterm window, you get xterm as a terminal type (which isfF approximately like VT-100), or you can substitute Xfree86 Xterm, which emulates VT-220.  J What most people mean by VT-220 emulation is that they want the additionalK F-keys.  When you are using any Xterm at all, you can do that with Xmodmap. 5 Follow the references from the URL above for details.    - Frankw   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jan 2003 12:09:48 GMTc/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> : Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?* Message-ID: <auulqc$ik5$1@news1.radix.net>  # GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> wrote:d > pfr wrote: >> eM >> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client whenlH >> connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from aI >> Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seems   >> only able to emulate a VT100. >> .
 >> Thanks,  < > Under RedHat 7.1 I just used the program called Eterm.  It( > worked fine to my vaxstation 4000 vlc.  M Eterm only does a vt100/vt102, as he notes.  (Though F1 seems to be assigned)o   -- .= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>u http://dickey.his.comt ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jan 2003 01:51:20 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?- Message-ID: <8765t8vjvr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a    "pfr" <preilly@mail.com> writes:  I > I'm mainly wanting to edit files, but I'm using a modified TPU keyboardnK > layout that I've used for quite a while that uses the application keypad,n! > "Gold Key", and functions keys.e  B The `gold' key is PF1 and was first seen on the VT100ish KB on theA Decmate Is. The function keys are a problem unless you can re-map / them, which you can with most `VT100s' nowdays.      -- 0< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.002 ************************