/ INFO-VAX	Thu, 02 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 4       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a  Re: Attunity Connect Re: Attunity Connect Re: Attunity Connect$ BookReader FAQ version does not open% Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? % Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? % Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? % Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? 2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha+ ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model / Re: ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)8 Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a file8 Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a file5 Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?  Re: FTP  Re: FTP  Re: FTP  Re: Happy New Year& Re: Interface on Alpha to non-Ada code Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? JPEG viewer?< Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]@ Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]@ Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching 1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching  OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia N OT: price crawlers - was Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?> Reckon you can clean your own hard disk?          (tht 6wq kt)	 Re: rrd40  Re: UTC time in DCL  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth < VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ RE: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail
 Re: VMS ISPs?  Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles1 Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?  Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks! Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % RE: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? % Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? & [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...* Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...* Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:12:21 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...' Message-ID: <3E1367C5.C74EE489@fsi.net>    Jason Brady wrote: >  > Mr. Sture, > B > I agree, and apologize to Mr. Mezei and you all for my choice ofH > forceful language.  However, I maintain that derogatory comments about= > any and all social groups have no place here.  Enough said.   A Tolerance, by definition, must include tolerance of "unacceptable A attitudes", such being a purely subjective judgement. 'Nuff said.   C > Back to our favorite subject, OpenVMS.  Does anyone know if HP is C > actively promoting VMS in the Northwest U.S., particularly in the  > Seattle area?   D It's owner is actively promoting VMS nowhere. Although claims to theC contrary prevail, evidence of such is lacking to the point of total  absence.  H Anyone who cares to contradict that statement may do so in the following< way: Cite publication name, date, and page number of any VMSF advertisements seen (approx. page number +/- 5 pages will suffice), orB air date of any television or radio commercials seen/heard and theE station over which it was broadcast as well as the origin location of  the station, if known.  7 > I also wonder if there are any VMS installations here F > in Micro$oft's back yard?  Plenty of IBM mainframe sites, probably a< > few varieties of UNIX, but I haven't heard much about VMS.  A ...and you're not likely to hear much about it, either, pending a ' 180-degree turn-about in VMS Marketing.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 03 12:30:43 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...) Message-ID: <kUDLq7psKUsD@elias.decus.ch>   l In article <36k61v0lmjn5kmrd4t6uifv40mb56f6kqa@4ax.com>, Jason Brady <jrbrady@nospam.mindspring.com> writes: > Mr. Sture, > B > I agree, and apologize to Mr. Mezei and you all for my choice ofH > forceful language.  However, I maintain that derogatory comments about= > any and all social groups have no place here.  Enough said.  >   : Apologies accepted, and I agree with your second sentence.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:13:55 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...3 Message-ID: <WYzxvXiN4DGh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <4tnXoQWfkwWm@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:  > . > Or for that matter colour, race or religion.  H    I'm quite sure we've had some discussions on religion.  But we didn't    really need them.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:35:00 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...H Message-ID: <E_YQ9.132686$E_.21105@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E1367C5.C74EE489@fsi.net...  > >Jason Brady wrote:  > E > > Back to our favorite subject, OpenVMS.  Does anyone know if HP is E > > actively promoting VMS in the Northwest U.S., particularly in the  > > Seattle area?  > F > It's owner is actively promoting VMS nowhere. Although claims to theE > contrary prevail, evidence of such is lacking to the point of total 
 > absence. > @ > Anyone who cares to contradict that statement may do so in the	 following > > way: Cite publication name, date, and page number of any VMSE > advertisements seen (approx. page number +/- 5 pages will suffice),  orD > air date of any television or radio commercials seen/heard and theD > station over which it was broadcast as well as the origin location of > the station, if known. > 9 > > I also wonder if there are any VMS installations here F > > in Micro$oft's back yard?  Plenty of IBM mainframe sites, probably a > > > few varieties of UNIX, but I haven't heard much about VMS. > C > ...and you're not likely to hear much about it, either, pending a ) > 180-degree turn-about in VMS Marketing.     C For an exercise in self-flagellation, go to www.hp.com and click on F the 'Newsroom' link located on the right side of the page. Enter 'VMS'A in the search box and you will see 3 references returned from the B entire HP news release database, two of which refer to Itanic. TheF third result is actually the only useful one - referring to DirectTV'sE VMS SAN, and even then it it only 1/2 the release...the other half is  about Tru64.  D Now enter 'HP-UX' in the search box and 53 records will be returned.D About 1/2 of these are HP announcements about 3rd party applications; available on HP-UX, while a small number are about customer ? 'successes', and the larger remaining balance are about HP unix  initiatives.  ? All the searchs for both VMS and HP-UX return results only from  October 2002 to the present.  F No offense Sue, but where are the announcements on the official HP webC site news releases about the 3rd-party apps that you have posted in C c.o.v. recently?? They aren't even in the OpenVMS section of the HP D web site, but that's not where members of the 'press' or the generalA public look for info. Is it simply a matter of official corporate F policy that VMS will receive no mention on the mainstream HP.COM site?C The same does not appear to hold true for HP-UX. Why the disparity?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:44:32 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9AD4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,   ? >>> Enter 'VMS' in the search box and you will see 3 references 
 returned..<<<   6 Why not try using the official "OpenVMS" name instead?   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  Sent: January 2, 2003 10:35 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...      < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3E1367C5.C74EE489@fsi.net...  > >Jason Brady wrote:  > H > > Back to our favorite subject, OpenVMS.  Does anyone know if HP is=20H > > actively promoting VMS in the Northwest U.S., particularly in the=20 > > Seattle area?  > I > It's owner is actively promoting VMS nowhere. Although claims to the=20 H > contrary prevail, evidence of such is lacking to the point of total=20
 > absence. > @ > Anyone who cares to contradict that statement may do so in the	 following A > way: Cite publication name, date, and page number of any VMS=20 E > advertisements seen (approx. page number +/- 5 pages will suffice),  orG > air date of any television or radio commercials seen/heard and the=20 D > station over which it was broadcast as well as the origin location of > the station, if known. > 9 > > I also wonder if there are any VMS installations here F > > in Micro$oft's back yard?  Plenty of IBM mainframe sites, probably a > > > few varieties of UNIX, but I haven't heard much about VMS. > F > ...and you're not likely to hear much about it, either, pending a=20) > 180-degree turn-about in VMS Marketing.     G For an exercise in self-flagellation, go to www.hp.com and click on the E 'Newsroom' link located on the right side of the page. Enter 'VMS' in H the search box and you will see 3 references returned from the entire HPH news release database, two of which refer to Itanic. The third result isH actually the only useful one - referring to DirectTV's VMS SAN, and even@ then it it only 1/2 the release...the other half is about Tru64.  D Now enter 'HP-UX' in the search box and 53 records will be returned.D About 1/2 of these are HP announcements about 3rd party applicationsH available on HP-UX, while a small number are about customer 'successes',? and the larger remaining balance are about HP unix initiatives.   G All the searchs for both VMS and HP-UX return results only from October  2002 to the present.  F No offense Sue, but where are the announcements on the official HP webC site news releases about the 3rd-party apps that you have posted in G c.o.v. recently?? They aren't even in the OpenVMS section of the HP web G site, but that's not where members of the 'press' or the general public F look for info. Is it simply a matter of official corporate policy thatH VMS will receive no mention on the mainstream HP.COM site? The same does5 not appear to hold true for HP-UX. Why the disparity?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 18:09:45 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...5 Message-ID: <av1v99$bcdl4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   T In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9AD4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > John,  > @ >>>> Enter 'VMS' in the search box and you will see 3 references > returned..<<<  > 8 > Why not try using the official "OpenVMS" name instead? >  >:-) >   G Surely your not insinuating that a search for "VMS" would not also find 2 the term "OpenVMS".  Even grep can do that!!!  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 12:37:22 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...3 Message-ID: <SnVRFIAsB7wA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <av1v99$bcdl4$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:V > In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9AD4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,, > 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >> John, >>  A >>>>> Enter 'VMS' in the search box and you will see 3 references  >> returned..<<< >>  9 >> Why not try using the official "OpenVMS" name instead?  >>   >>:-)  >>   > I > Surely your not insinuating that a search for "VMS" would not also find 4 > the term "OpenVMS".  Even grep can do that!!!  :-) >   : 	Blame it on the dumbing down of search engine technology.  A 	Back in the day, the newspaper librarians would keyword articles G 	based on their experience and homegrown editing enhancement "rules".   D 	For instance, nowhere in a story will it say POLITICAL CORRUPTION, A 	dropping that in the KEYWORD field would place it in a topic so  
 	to speak. 	 E 	Likewise, the search engine technology I am most familiar with would F 	load a system tunable thesarurus and a private (user) thesaurus.  An @ 	obvious choice for synomyns would be     vms   <->  openvms.  I& 	recall some of them being long lists.  A 	Today we have dumbed down to speed , but improved the algorithms G 	immensely (google) and often get what we are after through heuristics.   @ 	That said, is a shame any search for VMS doesn't yield OpenVMS.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:47:00 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" .../ Message-ID: <3E147B13.513348C9@vl.videotron.ca>   D > > I agree, and apologize to Mr. Mezei and you all for my choice ofJ > > forceful language.  However, I maintain that derogatory comments about? > > any and all social groups have no place here.  Enough said.   M Didn't want to fuel this discussion. Please recall that the joke I had posted ; was in the context of the english language having different J meanings/expressions in different parts of the world. This was the type ofB joke an australian would make to a north american knowing that the6 north-american would not understand thsoe expressions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:13:26 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a& Message-ID: <3E136806.2030203@Free.fr>   Robert Deininger a crit:  ../.. C > I doubt HP wants to stop supporting VMS on VAXes, since they make  > boatloads of money doing it. >   J You missed a train one day, Bob. It has been demonstrated since ages that ; neither COMPAQ nor HP ar interested to make money with VMS.   N Do not ask me why, sane persons (among which I consider myself to be) have no O answer to that question, but it is a fact. If my assertion (assersion?) is not  G true, tell me why "they" do not advert for the Golden Eggs VMS Chicken.    My 2003 two euros.   D. --  4   --------------------------------------------------3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 1    19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France. 3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 VMS/FORTRAN 77 programming, $1/hour, any Customers? 3 ---------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:46:45 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a' Message-ID: <3E136FD5.2CBA2AF0@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > Robert Deininger a crit:  > ../.. E > > I doubt HP wants to stop supporting VMS on VAXes, since they make   > > boatloads of money doing it. > >  > K > You missed a train one day, Bob. It has been demonstrated since ages that = > neither COMPAQ nor HP ar interested to make money with VMS.  > O > Do not ask me why, sane persons (among which I consider myself to be) have no , > answer to that question, but it is a fact.  - No one ever accused VMS Mgt. of sanity, Mssr.    > If my assertion (assersion?)   "Assertion" is correct.    > is notI > true, tell me why "they" do not advert for the Golden Eggs VMS Chicken.   7 I thought it was the goose that lays the golden eggs...    > My 2003 two euros.  . Equiv. (rough) $2.00US? Such is inflation, no?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:50:29 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a& Message-ID: <3E13FD55.4070700@Free.fr>   David J. Dachtera a crit: > 9 > I thought it was the goose that lays the golden eggs...   L Well, in France, it's a hen actually. Isn't the chicken its descendance? :-)     >>My 2003 two euros. > 0 > Equiv. (rough) $2.00US? Such is inflation, no?  + r u jokin? as of today, 1 US$ is 0.99 euro.    D. --  4    -------------------------------------------------3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 1    19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France. 3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 4 On strike for lack of work. What does the Police do?3 --------------------------------------------------- 3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 03 13:52:55 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a) Message-ID: <zjWRl$S73yRI@elias.decus.ch>   ] In article <3E13FD55.4070700@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > David J. Dachtera a crit: >>  : >> I thought it was the goose that lays the golden eggs... > N > Well, in France, it's a hen actually. Isn't the chicken its descendance? :-) >  >  >>>My 2003 two euros.  >>  1 >> Equiv. (rough) $2.00US? Such is inflation, no?  > - > r u jokin? as of today, 1 US$ is 0.99 euro.  > J Yes he is joking.  He's contrasting your "two euros" with the common usage- "my 2 cents". That's inflation, n'est-ce pas?  --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:37:59 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Attunity Connect ' Message-ID: <3E136DC7.7C1F69A0@fsi.net>    "Dieter Robach" wrote:  > 7 > Anybody out their sing Attunity Connect with OpenVMS?   / No, but hum a few bars and I'll try to fake it.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:05:04 +0100( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> Subject: Re: Attunity Connect - Message-ID: <av19tj$286m$1@news.cybercity.dk>    Dieter Robach wrote: L > clip ...  with oracle8, as a license for Oracle8 is included in VMS 7.3-1.  5 Really ??!?!  I have not heard this.  Details please.    philip   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:26:30 +01002 From: rossbach.dieter@t-online.de (Dieter Robach) Subject: Re: Attunity Connect / Message-ID: <av1ln6$ial$06$1@news.t-online.com>   G In article <av19tj$286m$1@news.cybercity.dk>, philip@nospam.com says...  >  >Dieter Robach wrote:M >> clip ...  with oracle8, as a license for Oracle8 is included in VMS 7.3-1.  > 6 >Really ??!?!  I have not heard this.  Details please. >  >philip  >  > 
 Look here:  O http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/attunity/get_connectonplatfo  rm.html    Dieter   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:47:58 +0100 1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> - Subject: BookReader FAQ version does not open 4 Message-ID: <3e146d3a$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  G What should be done to successfully download the BookReader version of  F the OpenVMS FAQ? I was not able to read it to find inside how to read . it. :-) I get "Error reading field in record".   Tx.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 04:20:38 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?/ Message-ID: <3E13F654.6BDD2D95@vl.videotron.ca>    Keith Parris wrote: E > something else (e.g. faulty hardware causing a continuous stream of F > interrupts at device IPL) that would cause it to to hang above IPL 8F > for a long time, preventing PEDRIVER from sending out Hello packets,0 > and causing node VELO to conclude it was gone,  M Could software on BIKE ( the appletalk ACP, or the MSCP "client" sending disk M requests to a drive served by VELO) monopolise the ethernet to such an extent : that PEDRIVER wouldn't be able to send its hello packets ?  K Or should I be looking at external problem which overwhelms BIKE and/or the  ethernet itself ?   J I am thinking about moving the appletalk/pathworks stuff to the all mightyM microvax II which serves the target drive. This way, when the macintosh sends L its data, it will on on the ethernet only once from the mac to VELO. (duringN my 2 attempst that caused a crash, MAC was sending appletalk to BIKE, bike was sending as MSCP to VELO).      > You could raise RECNXINTERVAL   G If I do, is there a way for me to get some sort of alarm if an ethernet  performance problem arises ?   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 03:41:06 -0800 # From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley) . Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0301020341.4ca08cb8@posting.google.com>   f JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E114386.4880721@vl.videotron.ca>... > This has happened twice now: > P > MAC has a Appleshar connection to BIKE, mapped to a drive MSCP served by VELO.& > All are on same ethernet (thinwire). > O > After a long while of the MAC sending to BIKE, VELO's OPCOM goes wild stating L > it has lost connection to BIKE. BIKE's screen doesn't show anything. A fewP > minutes later, BIKE decides to kill itself and reboots. ANA/ERROR reveals lost4 > connectivity betwene the two nodes. (eg: ethernet) > M > This has happened sporadically a few times , but not often enough for me to K > worry. But in the past 2 days, it has happened as I tried to backup a mac 4 > drive onto my vax with the Pathworks MAC software. >  > - > What would be more likely in your opinion ?  > J > Faulty hardware on the ethernet that would go nuts, preventing VELO from > keeping in touch with BIKE?  > K > Just too much traffic on the ethernet, ovrwhelming both VELO and BIKE who  > can't keep up ?  >  > Anything else ? 7 If you are using ucx/tcpip then if you periodically run C $tcpip show protocols (I think that is the syntax - check the help) 9 it shows counters that can assist in identifying problems  Phil   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:03:52 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>. Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?+ Message-ID: <av19r9$v5g@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ( news:3E114386.4880721@vl.videotron.ca...   > Anything else ?   N Could be a combination of the two; an Ethernet with a bad configuration and/orU components can appear fine under light load but crap out altogether under heavy load.   L Have a look what the counters say in NCP and via SHOW LAN on the crash dump.! That will get you some hard data.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 10:48:48 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) . Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?< Message-ID: <cf15391e.0301021048.7225213@posting.google.com>  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E13F654.6BDD2D95@vl.videotron.ca>... O > Could software on BIKE ( the appletalk ACP, or the MSCP "client" sending disk O > requests to a drive served by VELO) monopolise the ethernet to such an extent < > that PEDRIVER wouldn't be able to send its hello packets ?  D I suppose, but I don't think it's likely.  PEDRIVER Hello packets goE out in reponse to a timer interrupt at IPL 8.  Even if other software B at IPL 8 (like the VMS MCSP server, or DUDRIVER, which is the MSCPB "client") was sending packets out at a high rate, I think PEDRIVERD should be able to get its packets into the transmit queue along withF the rest.  So unless the Ethernet is so congested that the LAN adapterD is dropping packets because it times out trying to transmit them due> to excessive collisions, I don't think this would be an issue.  M > Or should I be looking at external problem which overwhelms BIKE and/or the  > ethernet itself ?    That's where I'd concentrate.   L > I am thinking about moving the appletalk/pathworks stuff to the all mightyO > microvax II which serves the target drive. This way, when the macintosh sends N > its data, it will on on the ethernet only once from the mac to VELO. (duringP > my 2 attempts that caused a crash, MAC was sending appletalk to BIKE, bike was > sending as MSCP to VELO).   7 Sounds reasonable.  Saves overhead on both VMS systems.   ! > > You could raise RECNXINTERVAL  > I > If I do, is there a way for me to get some sort of alarm if an ethernet  > performance problem arises ?  F Yes.  You could use the LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR tool provided in theF SYS$EXAMPLES: directory.  It works with PEDRIVER and its Hello packetsF and produces OPCOM messages when a LAN component fails, and again when> it is repaired.  It will report all LAN failures that PEDRIVERD detects, including those that are less than RECNXINTERVAL seconds in? duration.  I have some DECUS sessions on how to use the tool at C http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/  But recently, because in the C past people have hesitated to use this tool because it's so hard to E set up, I wrote a DCL procedure that does all the work of editing the E program for you.  Here's a description (based on DECUServe conference  VMS topic 3326): --- E The LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS tool included with VMS in the SYS$EXAMPLES: C directory can be very handy in troubleshooting problems in clusters A which use the LAN as a VMS cluster interconnect, especially where B there is redundancy configured in the LAN.  This tool can generateD OPCOM messages whenever a LAN component breaks (and also report when it is repaired).  E But it has often been difficult to implement.  It was documented, but D not in the main text of the OpenVMS Cluster Software manual -- in anC appendix instead.  Implementing it required editing a Macro program C and inserting a lot of 48-bit MAC addresses in hexadecimal format.  A Not fun.  In an attempt to help more folks take advantage of this > capability, I did DECUS sessions and even a 4-hour interactiveD workshop on how to use the tool (see http://www.geocities.com/), butF still many people were discouraged by the difficulty of setting up and maintaining the tool.   > In an effort to make things easier, I've written a DCL commandD procedure that edits LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR automatically for youB and inserts the site-specific information for a particular clusterF configuration.  Once you have this working example to look at, you canB enhance it if you wish to provide more-detailed diagnostic info byD adding more detail about the actual network configuration, or better2 text description strings for nodes, adapters, etc.  E Grab EDIT_LAVC.COM from http://encompasserve.org/~parris/ (and at the @ same time you might also want to pick up LAVC$FAILURE_OFF.MAR, a? program to turn the analysis facility back off if you wish, and C SIFT_LAVC.COM, a procedure to gather LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS messages @ from all nodes and correlate them in time-stamp order for easier5 analysis of the sequence of events during a failure).   ? To create a customized version of LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR and + deposit it into your default directory, do:     $ @EDIT_LAVC 7 To compile/assemble and link the resulting program, do:     $ @EDIT_LAVC BUILD   C Because it can't determine the minute details of the actual network F configuration, the program uses a simplified model of the network.  It= can identify multiple different extended LANs (VLANs, network @ segments, whatever you want to call them) and which adapters areC connected to which extended LAN, but of course it can't discern any E detail within the LAN itself in terms of what bridges, hubs, etc. may 6 be present.  You can add that detail later if desired.  C One caution: Since this procedure creates code based on the SCS LAN D paths it sees when it runs, if something in the LAN configuration isE broken at the time you run it, what you'll get is a program that will ? report any failures in the portion of the LAN that is presently F working.  Paths added later will not be noticed, and failures on those< new paths won't be reported, either.  So it's a good idea toA double-check the LAN configuration it sees (look at the ASCII-art = drawing generated in the "Edit 2" section) as a sanity check.   A The program has to make up some arbitrary descriptions for nodes, > adapters, and network segments.  These appear in OPCOM warningA messages.  You can override the default names for things like the @ cluster as a whole, the nodes, the adapters, and the VLANs / LANC segments using logical names at the time of the EDIT_LAVC.COM run.   For example: $!C $! Create LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR file customized for XYZ cluster  $!% $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_CLUSTER "XYZ" F $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_NODE_ABC ", VAX 3500 in XYZ cluster, Room 35A"E $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_NODE_ABC_ADAPTER_XQA "10-mbit DELQA, 2nd slot 	 from top" C $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_VLAN_1 "Cisco VLAN 123 (Fast Ethernet); XYZ  cluster"A $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_VLAN_2 "GIGAswitch A (FDDI); XYZ cluster" F $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_VLAN_3 "Cisco VLAN 456 (Gigabit Ethernet); XYZ cluster"A $ DEFINE EDIT_LAVC_DESC_VLAN_4 "GIGAswitch B (FDDI); XYZ cluster"  $ @edit_lavc  C When you have to make a change to a cluster that affects the set of C nodes present or the LAN adapters running SCS or how those adapters 7 are connected to the LAN(s), you'll need to either edit B LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR (or re-run the EDIT_LAVC.COM procedure),2 re-compile/assemble/link, and re-run the resultingF LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.EXE program on all nodes.  Changes which requireD this also include MAC address changes caused by replacement of a LANC adapter (NIC), change of the DECnet Phase IV address for a node, or E turning DECnet Phase IV on or off for a given LAN adpater, or turning E the SCS protocol on or off for an adapter with SCACP or LAVC$STOP_BUS  or LAVC$START_BUS.  ? To make such changes appear smooth, I'd recommend first running 9 LAVC$FAILURE_OFF to prevent OPCOM messages, then make the D configuration change, then re-run EDIT_LAVC.COM to create an updatedA version of the LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR program (don't forget to:@ eyeball it to make sure the LAN diagram looks like what you wereF expecting, and that there isn't anything missing because some piece ofD LAN hardware is broken), and the use '@EDIT_LAVC BUILD' to get a newE image (and of course you'll need to compile/assemble and link once onaF a node of each architecture in a mixed-architecture cluster), then runE that new image on all nodes to start monitoring up again with the new0 configuration data.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:43:46 +0000S' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyS; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alphae, Message-ID: <3E143402.10404@nospamn.sun.com>   Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:2 > In article <atuqam$puc$1@newsreader1.netway.at>,% > Peter Flunger <p-i-b@gmx.at> wrote:r > , >>"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote >  > ; >>>I wish you had a sun sparky box to run also so you couldl( >>>prove Andrew the idiot that he is ... >>H >>Maybe there is somebody out there with a SUN running SETI ?  We do notH >>have any, and as long as it is my saying, we will never have.  Some ofG >>our customers are running SUNs as well, and they are not impressed byb* >>what they get in comparison to an Alpha. >  > K > Well... FWIW, I ran the latest Seti@Home (3.0.3) 64-bit Solaris client on L > an Ultra 10 system of mine.  This particular box has an old UltraSparc-IIiJ > processor, running at 333MHz.  It's a single processor system.  I boughtI > the box used in late 2000, and I think this config of Ultra 10 would'veaI > been actively sold by Sun sometime in 1999 (or late 1998?).  Anyway, it < > completed the work unit in a fairly respectable 17.42 hrs. >   9 I had a bit of a laugh about the not impressed with Sun's  in the context of SETI.a  4 In common with most of Bob's SPARC performance jibes1 his choice of subject and content have left a lot  to be desired.  7 SETI@sun is currently the 1st placed SETI team in terms?9 of workunits processed. A position that it has held sincee9 1999. It it the first and only team to complete 1 million  work units.   8 Most of the systems in use by the team are running other8 apps and the vast majority are older UltraSPARC II based6 systems. Only 5% of the systems in use by the SETI@sun! team are UltraIII based machines.n  6 The Seti client runs in ~2-4MB of cache, your Ultra 102 I think has a 512K cache so you are getting pretty" respectible performance out of it.   Regardsd Andrew Harrisont      E > At work, I've a more contemporary SunFire V880 deskside server witheJ > UltraSparc-III processors running at 900MHz.  Given that those procs areG > clocked a lot faster, and that they're a newer generation processor, dD > I'm going to guess that it'll easily beat 6 hrs per work unit, andF > possibly 5 hrs per work unit.  I'll post my results following a run. > L > Personally, I like my home VAXen best, but then there aren't any Seti@Home  > clients for them under any OS. > 	 > -brian.e   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 09:08:14 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)T4 Subject: ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0301020908.616163f2@posting.google.com>   F ComputerWorld reports that "White House officials are quietly studyingF this year's merger of Hewlett-Packard Co. and Compaq Computer Corp. inE an effort to enhance their chances of succeeding in the mother of alls? mergers: the formation of the Department of Homeland Security."0Q  http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,76771,00.htmls   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:11:29 GMT-" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG8 Subject: Re: ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model0 Message-ID: <00A195E0.8D54BF43@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <cf15391e.0301020908.616163f2@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:rG >ComputerWorld reports that "White House officials are quietly studying G >this year's merger of Hewlett-Packard Co. and Compaq Computer Corp. ingF >an effort to enhance their chances of succeeding in the mother of all@ >mergers: the formation of the Department of Homeland Security."R > http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,76771,00.html  I So now the government will annihilate all of its existing departments andc2 programs to incorporate and bolster Micro$oft too?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMh            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" p   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 07:59:49 -0600m; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)g3 Message-ID: <gnGWPs$FQgVV@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  [ In article <3E1212BE.FE72BF98@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:l >  > Try a DIRECTORY/FULL of: >  > o any .%LB file (LIBRARIAN)n  &    Missed that one.  OK, that makes 2.   > o a .ZIP archive on VMSd  %    ZIP is not a built in part of VMS.y  4 > o an image file such as .JPG or a .DIF, .TIF, etc.  "    Also not built in parts of VMS.  ;    Would ZIP, JPG, ... be broken if undefined record format <    was used?  My experiments with an .OLB found no problems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:54:06 -0400p0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)l/ Message-ID: <3E147CBD.24B5FA4D@vl.videotron.ca>l   Bob Koehler wrote:= >    Would ZIP, JPG, ... be broken if undefined record formatn> >    was used?  My experiments with an .OLB found no problems.  , I had found something odd with this regards:  N On the chgaracter cell ALL-IN-1 I would generally store "foreign" documents asM Fixed-512 since it was pretty well the expected format for such binary files. X (even though "undefined" should have been the standard from the start, in my opininion).  N But low and behold, Teamlinks would not be able to deal with such files, as itN expected binary files to be in Stream-LF format. There was some switch one hadJ to put in all teamlinks clients to use fixed-512 format instead. As to whyN Teamlinks, when accessing ALL-In-1 file cabinets expected stream-lf by default! for binary files, I have no idea.@   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 09:02:42 +0100$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>A Subject: Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a filed0 Message-ID: <av0rn3$bhq$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  8 "serge.zangheri" <szangheri@grenoble.sema.slb.com> wrote > Hi, H > I would like to get the boot messages from the console in a file or at& > least in a decterm of an another VS.> Without using a console Manager like for example Robo Central, you can set startup_p2 to "VDC"CA This will log everything to sys$system:startup.log when you boot.  Petere   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:03:59 +0100i) From: Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> A Subject: Re: deporter the boot message from the console in a filee4 Message-ID: <3e142aaf$0$136$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Peter Flunger wrote:: > "serge.zangheri" <szangheri@grenoble.sema.slb.com> wrote >  >>Hi,tH >>I would like to get the boot messages from the console in a file or at& >>least in a decterm of an another VS. > @ > Without using a console Manager like for example Robo Central,! > you can set startup_p2 to "VDC"iC > This will log everything to sys$system:startup.log when you boot.s > Peter  >   G True, but the "V" in "VDC" will enable DCL verification in STARTUP and tG will give you far more output than you will ever want. I recommend "D" t5 for normal use or "DC" if you want a little bit more.e  	 Bart Zornt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:15:31 -0800c" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>> Subject: Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?( Message-ID: <3E137693.43FBC1B5@mist.com>   Michael Austin wrote:n >  > > @ > > You maybe correct in this assertion.  My Vaxstation 4000 vlc; > > won't work thru the Linksys router either.  I read yourr3 > > first post and tried the same commands. No joy.h" > > The Solaris side works ok tho. > G > Hmmm.. this used to work on my Linux and VMS boxes. Now, only the WxxeJ > box works... I am using Linksys also woth V1.42.7... and I just recently > updated the firmware...r >   / I'm using 1.40.2 version of the Linksys router. ; But I can telnet into the vax from my PC.  The vax won't gob; outside the lan and I'm sure that it isn't set up right for < the outside world.  My ucx version in 3.3 and the OpenVMS is 6.2.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:31:29 GMT 7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)f Subject: Re: FTP. Message-ID: <lTKQ9.590555$NH2.40243@sccrnsc01>  Z In article <auvsgh$aoltg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:5 >The FTP service on my AXP/VMS system is not enabled:g   Hi Hans,  : Is there any reason you cannot use the configuration menu:   @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIGe  O rather than using the commands listed below?  I've found the menu easier to useoI (options 2 and 3, I think, are the ones for configuring client and server, services) than the commands.  M Of course, the commands should work, as specified in the on-line help and theeG manuals (I haven't used TCP/Ip services in a month, so my recall of thea commands could be rusty).>  ! <commands snipped for brevity...>s  M >Telnet, outbound FTP (the client) work fine. It is just that the system will ( >not function as a server.  Suggestions? >e >Hans  >e   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 03 13:44:58 +0100i) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)4 Subject: Re: FTP) Message-ID: <zs4+hF41ZMEy@elias.decus.ch>   Z In article <av0ai5$asocj$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: > H > "Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.homeportal.2wire.net> schreef in bericht+ > news:3eNQ9.525009$WL3.139196@rwcrnsc54...lE >> In article <auvvo4$apden$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"n > <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:3	 >> <snip>E >>; >> Looks like you've done things correctly, so I'm puzzled.o > ! > Ah, I recognize the feeling :-)w >>K >> If your AXP box is non-production/mission-critical, can you stand takingh > itM >> offline fo a bit?  If so, you could delete the CONFIGURATION.DAT file, andhM >> configure from scratch.  I've had to do that with TCP/IP Services a couplet > ofG >> times, when I messed up the configuration (please note that I am nota > suggesting >> that you messed up!). >>I > It's not production critical at all. But I already went down that road:aJ > renamed all TCPIP$*.DAT files in SYS$SYSTEM to DAT_ORG and reconfigured. > Same result. > M >> I also found V5.3 to be "better" that either V5.0 and 5.1 - do you have ant >> option to use 5.3?  > N > No, I have one set of cd's for AXP layered products and AXP/VMS so I'm stuck > with 5.1.MK > There's one thing that surproses me though. The TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP routineaJ > executes the same command: TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE FTP and reports that the > service is started.b< > The TCPIP SHOW SERVICES command shows that FTP is stopped. >   ? Do the log files in sys$sysdevice:<tcpip$ftp> reveal anything? a   -- k
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 03:38:38 GMTd1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: FTP2 Message-ID: <3E13B409.FC373489@firstdbasource.com>   Hans Vlems wrote:o > H > "Bradford J. Hamilton" <brad@.homeportal.2wire.net> schreef in bericht+ > news:3eNQ9.525009$WL3.139196@rwcrnsc54....F > > In article <auvvo4$apden$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" > <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: 
 > > <snip> > >u< > > Looks like you've done things correctly, so I'm puzzled. > ! > Ah, I recognize the feeling :-)n > > L > > If your AXP box is non-production/mission-critical, can you stand taking > itN > > offline fo a bit?  If so, you could delete the CONFIGURATION.DAT file, andN > > configure from scratch.  I've had to do that with TCP/IP Services a couple > ofH > > times, when I messed up the configuration (please note that I am not > suggesting > > that you messed up!).H > > I > It's not production critical at all. But I already went down that road: J > renamed all TCPIP$*.DAT files in SYS$SYSTEM to DAT_ORG and reconfigured. > Same result. > N > > I also found V5.3 to be "better" that either V5.0 and 5.1 - do you have an > > option to use 5.3? > N > No, I have one set of cd's for AXP layered products and AXP/VMS so I'm stuck > with 5.1.(K > There's one thing that surproses me though. The TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP routine J > executes the same command: TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE FTP and reports that the > service is started.C< > The TCPIP SHOW SERVICES command shows that FTP is stopped.   A bit of troubleshooting...n  + Make sure your ftp service looks like this:y TCPIP> show service ftp/full   Service: FTP-                            State:     EnabledmG Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 ? Inactivity:         15     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:  	 TCPIP$FTP)C Limit:              10     Active:      1             Peak:       3a  , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheckr0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  F Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not definedl  Accept host: 0.0.0.0e  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0D  2 and your TCPIP$FTP user in SYSUAF looks like this:    < Username: TCPIP$FTP                        Owner:  TCPIP$FTP; Account:  TCPIP                            UIC:    [3655,1]8 ([TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$FTP] )0< CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES# Default:  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]  LGICMD:   LOGINc Flags:  Restricted# Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri>+ Secondary days:                     Sat SunSF Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222F Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123F Network:  ##### Full access ######            ##### Full access ######F Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------D Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0> Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)> Last Login:            (none) (interactive), 13-DEC-2002 20:11 (non-interactive) 9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:        50  Bytlm:       108000t9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0e9 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:        96  JTquota:       4096 9 Prclm:           8  DIOlm:        96  WSdef:          350a9 Prio:            8  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:          512-9 Queprio:         4  TQElm:        15  WSextent:       51209 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:       100  Pgflquo:      10240c Authorized Privileges:   NETMBX       TMPMBX" Default Privileges:1   NETMBX       TMPMBXt  F and the directory exists with TCPIP$FTP as the owner.  Look at the logC files in the default directory for this user to see why it does noto start.   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:46:37 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>w Subject: Re: Happy New Yearo* Message-ID: <av21fs$23f$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Dear JF and Didier,o  J Thank you for your kind thoughts but just so you know I do not play/gambleH with the lottery tickets.  I sit with the engineers at lunch and none ofL them play either.  They told me that the odds of winning are the same as notB playing at all.  Since I am not a technical person I do not really' understand that logic but I trust them.s  I Its funny we have this discussion at lunch a few times a year (what would G you do if you won 200M).  And we have some very lively conversation.  IaJ would still keep doing what I do, but probably invest enough in HP to help set direction.  " I hope you are all safe and happy.  
 Warm Regards,  suer  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3E12254E.D6797FEB@vl.videotron.ca...dI > May 2003 bring a winning Powerball ticket to Sue so she can buy VMS and  Alpha-L > lock stock and barrel and make it the success both Sue and VMS deserve :-) :-)a	 > :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 11:02:17 -05004: From: Charlie McCutcheon <charlie.mccutcheonNO@SPAMhp.com>/ Subject: Re: Interface on Alpha to non-Ada code-* Message-ID: <3E146289.6B7B3D02@SPAMhp.com>  h Compaq Ada requires you to interface your program through the ACS library manager.  You need to compile,h enter, extract, and link using ACS for your program.  Using VMS Link directly, or not properly importing; exporting objects with ACS will probably give you problems.   i This should work the same on VAX and on Alpha.  I suspect your program was done correctly on VAX, but not 	 on Alpha.    Charliea
 Compaq Ada   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:15:44 -0600i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>k' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?i' Message-ID: <3E136890.21BF42A3@fsi.net>h   Paul Sture wrote:s > ] > In article <3E122562.E23959C7@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:s, > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >> [snip]"7 > >> Personaly I wouldn't print it the PDF for the useru > >> commands is ~1700 pages.t > >lK > > The DCL dictionary has been two volumes for some time now. I'm guessingtH > > circa. 750 sheets for both. Two-sided, that's probably close to 1500
 > > pages. > >l >  > Part 1 - 524 pages > Part 2 - 546 pages >   > Total 1070 pages. V7.3-1 PDFs.  B That's 535 sheets (slightly more than a ream) of paper, two-sided.  G > > Then again, the entire docset. - equiv. to the ENTIRE "manual", allqG > > chapters - was several shelves of binders, now about two shelves of  > > soft-cover books.h > >w > C > Of course, the DCL dictionary is only one part of the entire set.   ( Acknowledged in the foregoing statement.   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:30:27 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?0' Message-ID: <3E136C03.606925AE@fsi.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > e > In article <4ADhJk1axI64@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:vW > > In article <v132vhigd2e87b@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:5A > >> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:2D > >> :> I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours. > >>I > >> :    I believe even a novice can learn to use help in a few minutes.. > >> > >> No argument here. > >>> > >> One feature man has that VMS HELP lacks: man -k [keyword] > > B > > But Unix seems to lack proponents who will explain the meaning2 > > of Unixisms they write into VMS newsgroups :-) > > > Oooh, I can help there. apropos does the same thing as man-k > :-)  > 9 > Here's an example of what man -k shutdown gives you :-)i > [snip]  D ...but to answer Larry's question more directly, "-k" has to do with "keyword" lookup.e  0 ...which suggests another wishlist item for DCL:   $ HELP/KEYWORD=stringa  ' Emulates UN*X's "man -k" functionality.    Example:   $ HELP/KEYWORD="/LOG"i   Matching topics:   APPEND /LOGc	 COPY /LOG- DELETE /LOG. 	. 	. 	.  G If I think of it later, I'll go digging in the docset to see if there'soE an LBR$function to search a library and return all records matching a  keyword.   -- . David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:23:04 -0600i1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?w' Message-ID: <3E136A48.FAF5B7DF@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ( > In article <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>,= >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > [snip]I > > I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like:  > > & > > sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.! > ! > %man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!e > No manual entry for this > No manual entry for aa# > No manual entry for crock-of-spitd > No manual entry for o.s.!   F My point exactly. Although you may stumble onto it in such way, if youD can interpret diagnostic messages, you will realize that "man" is atE least SOME kind of a command, and you can then explore such things aswF "man" with no arguments,  "man -?", "man -h", "man /?", "man /h", etc.   >  > >  > > or > >-, > > $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING! > * > $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING! > ? >   Sorry, no documentation on ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THINGo > % >   Additional information available:e > [snip] > > ? > > ...one would eventually get a clue that would prove useful.s  H Again, same deal. Obviously, HELP is a valid command. One might then tryE "HELP" with no arguments, "HELP -?", "HELP -h", "HELP /?", "HELP /h",- etc.   > >-5 > >> Guess what, when I go to the library and need to L > >> find something I may not look it up in the "man" file, but I also don'tJ > >> look it up in the HELP file. I use a card catalog.  So why then isn'tG > >> the VMS HELP system called the card catalog??  Seems that would bei/ > >> more intuitive to the non-computer expert.t > >dL > > ...assuming one knows that the card catalog is the "key" to the library. > H > More proof of my point.  Without knowing the jargon of the library bizE > (which we teach our children at a very early age) you would be losti > there as well.  H You'd probably be surprised - if not disgusted - to know how many adults5 aged 21-91 I can point out who are not aware of this.    -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 01:32:35 -0800i% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>a' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?f( Message-ID: <3E140733.8090302@rdrop.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:d > In article <3E11C76E.4040202@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >  > 9 >>So you claim that if you ask 100 people with no VMS and = >>no Unix experience about what the command for getting help	-4 >>is, then "help" and "man" will be picked equally ? >>8 >>I think that is wrong. My guess is that none will pick8 >>"man", that "help" will be the most popular choice and3 >>that "?" will be the second most popular choice !@ >  > > > I am not convinced that "help" would beat "?", but for those@ > without Unix experience it is certain that "man" would be left? > far in the dust (even further if it does not work spelled outr< > as "manual").  I would expect it to trail "documentation", > "how" and "what".,  C The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for ED help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key.  F (Then again, it says "NumLock" on the Gold key, so what does it know?)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 03 12:37:02 +0100y) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?a) Message-ID: <eg0lSX2qA8mE@elias.decus.ch>r  [ In article <3E136C03.606925AE@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:p > F > ...but to answer Larry's question more directly, "-k" has to do with > "keyword" lookup.n > 2 > ...which suggests another wishlist item for DCL: >  > $ HELP/KEYWORD=string  > ) > Emulates UN*X's "man -k" functionality.n > 
 > Example: >  > $ HELP/KEYWORD="/LOG"e >  > Matching topics: > 
 > APPEND /LOGt > COPY /LOGk
 > DELETE /LOGn > 	. > 	. > 	. >    Yes, I like that one.c  I > If I think of it later, I'll go digging in the docset to see if there's G > an LBR$function to search a library and return all records matching a.
 > keyword.  7 I was thinking along similar lines yesterday evening...1   -- @
 Paul Sture SwitzerlandJ   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:35:35 +0100.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t' Message-ID: <3E142407.1BB4217D@aaa.com>c  = Well, in many Win apps, pressing the [X] button in the Windowv7 frame just calles the "exit" routine in the applicationv8 itself, the same routine as File->Exit (or whatever it's? called in the specific app) so it doesn't matter what you do...:   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t  6 > > As for exiting programs in Windows, remembering myG > > bad example of just closing an X-window in a previous message, I ampE > > amazed at how many people I work with double click the upper leftiG > > hand corner of the Window instead of using the Exit function of theoD > > application.  I don;t know how Windows handles that, but it sure > > rubs me the wrong way. > H > Rubs me wrong too, but it doesn't seem to cause a problem, usually. InH > some cases, Windows won't let you close a window that way and actuallyC > tells you that you need to close it using the application itself.I >8   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 06:10:43 -0600D- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?V3 Message-ID: <5rVtDkhovyj6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  P In article <3E140733.8090302@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:e >> In article <3E11C76E.4040202@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:e >> s >>  : >>>So you claim that if you ask 100 people with no VMS and> >>>no Unix experience about what the command for getting help	5 >>>is, then "help" and "man" will be picked equally ?a >>>t9 >>>I think that is wrong. My guess is that none will pickt9 >>>"man", that "help" will be the most popular choice and 4 >>>that "?" will be the second most popular choice ! >> V >> (? >> I am not convinced that "help" would beat "?", but for thoseeA >> without Unix experience it is certain that "man" would be lefto@ >> far in the dust (even further if it does not work spelled out= >> as "manual").  I would expect it to trail "documentation",o >> "how" and "what". > E > The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for FF > help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key.  B I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environmentB where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean theE PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshrE to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1i key.  > Mechanisms everyone is expected to use should be restricted to@ those which are natural to a touch typist.  (This eliminates the& Escape key which I use daily in TECO.)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:05:09 -0600g; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?I3 Message-ID: <2qEgcAumSLdH@eisner.encompasserve.org>L  S In article <v144hpdc2lr7b9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:h >  > $ HELP HINTS PASSWORDo > HINTSp- >   Sorry, no documentation on HINTS PASSWORDi      $ help hintso   ...e      User_environmentw      HINTS Subtopic? Usera   ...   0         SET PASSWORD      Changes your password.  E    Not a key search like man -k, but not hard to use.  Compare to the <    out put of man -k file number.  Did you find file number?+    man -k "file number" is no help, either.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:07:39 -0600c; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)k' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?E3 Message-ID: <spOTj+notafq@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  Z In article <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > G > I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like:t > $ > sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!      Tells me about a.out.   > or > * > $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!  %    Gets me a list of all help topics.   ,    Guess which one I find actually helpfull.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:10:42 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <xeSU40xGAPXY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <aut9i8$a24n0$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > B > And how does this differ from any OS??  Until the first time you' > use it, you won't know how to use it.I  F    Nonsense.  The first time I fired up OS 8 all I got was a . prompt.  A    I figured, what the heck, it's a DEC OS, and typed in DIR, goto6    a listing of files.  The I typed HELP and got help.  E    That kept working until I got Ultrix.  Not as user friendly as any "    other OS I'd ever got from DEC.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:11:41 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?r3 Message-ID: <TJBKaAatsmj2@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  S In article <v14rjf2b5d9ve9@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:t2 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:I > : When I first started to look at NetBSD some years ago, I correspondedlA > : with a fellow who never could quite understand that since theeK > : installation instructions are included in the man pages, you have to doiK > : the install and unpack the manpages before you can unpack the man pagesfJ > : and do the install. That is, he never quite grasped that to unpack the2 > : man pages you must first unpack the man pages. > 6 > Can you use HELP for help installing HELP libraries?     That's how I learned it.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:39:52 GMT.( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?S5 Message-ID: <av1ivo$b1qge$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   3 In article <spOTj+notafq@eisner.encompasserve.org>,i> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:\ > In article <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>  H >> I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like: >> g% >> sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!L >  >    Tells me about a.out. >  >> or  >> F+ >> $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!l > ' >    Gets me a list of all help topics.X > . >    Guess which one I find actually helpfull.  A True, but if the user was going to type in some english statementA. why would they type the above rather than say,  1                "HOW DO I GET THIS THING TO WORK?")  YA which would return something about as useful as the Unix example.X  B It's easy to prove a point when the examples are contrived to lean in that direction.   bill   -- EJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ,   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:49:06 GMTt, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?F5 Message-ID: <av1jh1$b1qge$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>h  3 In article <xeSU40xGAPXY@eisner.encompasserve.org>,b> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:b > In article <aut9i8$a24n0$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>  C >> And how does this differ from any OS??  Until the first time your( >> use it, you won't know how to use it. > H >    Nonsense.  The first time I fired up OS 8 all I got was a . prompt. > C >    I figured, what the heck, it's a DEC OS, and typed in DIR, got 8 >    a listing of files.  The I typed HELP and got help.  C Read what you just said.  You had a preconcieved notion of what the B commands were based on your experience with other DEC OSes.  I can say the same thing.  c  D The first time I used Linux, I said what the heck, its a unix OS andD typed "ls -l", got a listing of the files.  Then I typed "man intro"
 and got help.    What's your point?   > G >    That kept working until I got Ultrix.  Not as user friendly as anyn$ >    other OS I'd ever got from DEC.  E Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command as well.3F So, that's both DEC's early Unix clones.  Ultrix-11 and Ultrix-32 bothF had HELP.  Anybody got OSF, Digital Unix or Tru-64 that they can try??D If they don't have it, I guess the question then becomes why did DECF abandon the HELP command if it was so valuable??  And, I am relativelyG certain that DEC was involved in the POSIX committee as well.  Why thenoF did HELP not become a part of the POSIX standard if it was the obvious choice??  s bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:39:53 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> ' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?rO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36005@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>o  F Anyone know what version of VMS was around 9 years after the first VMSK release?  I bet it was way better than what MS has out there, 9 years after, NT 3.1.....e  ) Comparisons?... Talk amongst yourselves..4     -----Original Message-----; From: John Wallace [mailto:johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk] E' Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 1:48 PMC To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?       - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in messagec( news:v0q12cf0phcbd@corp.supernews.com.... > Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote:; > : Every one of them.  How cost effective would that be ori? > : how realistic would it be to spend that money?  Not likely. < > : Most of us could use more stable Windows too you know... >. > Win 2000 is pretty damn good.  > < > Not quite Enterprise Critical quality yet, but damn close.  1 Really? Not that much closer than Win2K Pro, imo.   I Windows 2000 is indeed a lot better than NT4 on any system I've used. But L MS's current real offering for Enterprise Critical is Datacenter Edition. SoK let's look at that as our point of reference. (I'm ignoring .NET server foriL now, though its idea of a set of language-independent runtime libraries does/ sound quite neat, wonder where that came from).t  I Windows 2000 Datacenter Edition has SMP and clustering capabilities whichlJ might one day be comparable with a VMS from 10 years ago (or even a recentL Unix). In the meantime its costs of ownership (compulsory support contract?)E need investigating before any purchase decision is made, and also its8J availability of quick fixes to the latest MS security flaws. (Fyi: WindowsI Datacentre fixes are not available from MS; you have to get them from the6D hardware OEM ie Dell, HPQ, Unisys, etc. They are supposed to undergoJ extensive vendor testing before release, which kind of defeats the "quick"C fix, but never mind. Correction/clarification welcome). The list ofuA supported hardware for Datacentre Edition is also somewhat short.t  J All versions of Windows 2000 (plus NT, XP, etc) seem to have a fundamentalK Win32 architectural flaw which (allegedly) allows anyone capable of running H a program (or piece of code) to acquire privileged access to their localL system. Ie run code fragment non-priv, get immediate admin-class access. See# description of "shatter" exploit at<I http://security.tombom.co.uk/moreshatter.html This isn't something MS cancK fix, it's part of the Win32 architecture. All it needs is a suitable wit tosL put this together with a buffer overflow exploit or the JVM flaw of the weekL and around 100% of the world's Win32 boxes can be 0wned by a bunch of scriptJ kiddies. Where is the equivalent architectural flaw in either VMS or Unix?   have fun john      I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andeJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is-J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:42:38 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>P' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?nO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36006@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>M  J yes if you give them all the keys.  Problem is on UNIX there's only 1 or 2K keys, on vms dozens, so it's "easier" on UNIX to accidentally give away all-	 the keys.a   -----Original Message-----( From: Z [mailto:zarlenga@conan.ids.net] ( Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 7:15 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?v    / Mark E. Levy <levy@sysman-NOSPAMinc.com> wrote:PG : The system described above should have had a larger pagefile, or the rG : PGFLQUOTA for the account in question should have been smaller. It's tI : also possible that the sysgen parameter WSMAX was set too high for the r : amount of available memory.i  ' Shoulda coulda and woulda.  But didn't.f  L Obviously, with inexpert system mangament, even a really solid, high-qualityH o/s like VMS can fall prey to single users taking down an entire system.  K Regardless, the ansewr is still "yes" to "can a single user take down a VMS- system?"    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and2J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/ornJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 11:46:51 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?a3 Message-ID: <RjguJVPbXwyt@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  d In article <av1jh1$b1qge$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  G > Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command as well.>  E    Ultrix-MIPS has help as an alias for apropos.  Which is a BSD nameo?    for man -k.  And which didn't tell me what I wanted to know.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 18:27:01 GMTo( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?g5 Message-ID: <av209l$b6p4l$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>"  3 In article <RjguJVPbXwyt@eisner.encompasserve.org>,l> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:f > In article <av1jh1$b1qge$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > H >> Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command as well. > G >    Ultrix-MIPS has help as an alias for apropos.  Which is a BSD name-A >    for man -k.  And which didn't tell me what I wanted to know.  >   ! Makes for an interesting history..  7 DEC has a "HELP" command on all their proprietary OSes.oE DEC has a "help" command on Ultrix-11 which somewhat mimics the other  HELP commands.K DEC drops this "help" command in favor of a "help" command on Ultrix-32 VAXV/ that merely points the user at the man command. I DEC further degrades the "help" command on Ultrix-32 MIPS to merely aliasa the apropos command.  K Doesn't sound like a Unix problem to me.  Sounds more like DEC learned from J experience (they did in those days) that the user community didn't need or want a "help" command.   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 12:58:39 -0600s From: briggs@encompasserve.org' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <+reXZiYrCoP+@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  ` In article <aukr4f$83lbf$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > OK, I should have made that:B >          n! = "the product of all positive integers from 1 to n" > ? > But my point was that the above is not a true definition of au? > factorial even though that is what most people learn up to atv? > least the 12th grade. The one case that disproves this is, ofn > course, "0".  !0 == 1. m  9 And the empty product is indeed 1.  The definition holds.c   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:45:37 +0100?1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>  Subject: JPEG viewer?54 Message-ID: <3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr>  I I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org v found in the OpenVMS FAQ..   Tx,d   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:59:16 -0000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com>3E Subject: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]1E Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB106@tahiti.tinuk.com>n   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]=20 > Sent: 02 January 2003 14:49  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn) > Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?  >=20 >=205 > In article <xeSU40xGAPXY@eisner.encompasserve.org>,.@ > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:< > > In article <aut9i8$a24n0$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,=20 > bill@cs.uofs.edu=20a > > (Bill Gunshannon) writes:s > >>=20t? > >> And how does this differ from any OS??  Until the first=20B > time you use=20o& > >> it, you won't know how to use it. > >=20A > >    Nonsense.  The first time I fired up OS 8 all I got was=20I
 > a . prompt.3 > >=20E > >    I figured, what the heck, it's a DEC OS, and typed in DIR, got3: > >    a listing of files.  The I typed HELP and got help. >=20? > Read what you just said.  You had a preconcieved notion of=20r? > what the commands were based on your experience with other=20m* > DEC OSes.  I can say the same thing. =20 >=20B > The first time I used Linux, I said what the heck, its a unix=20> > OS and typed "ls -l", got a listing of the files.  Then I=20! > typed "man intro" and got help.  >=20 > What's your point? >=20 > >=20< > >    That kept working until I got Ultrix.  Not as user=20 > friendly as anyt& > >    other OS I'd ever got from DEC. >=20A > Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command=20eA > as well. So, that's both DEC's early Unix clones.  Ultrix-11=20t@ > and Ultrix-32 both had HELP.  Anybody got OSF, Digital Unix=20A > or Tru-64 that they can try?? If they don't have it, I guess=20l; > the question then becomes why did DEC abandon the HELP=20 B > command if it was so valuable??  And, I am relatively certain=20? > that DEC was involved in the POSIX committee as well.  Why=20o@ > then did HELP not become a part of the POSIX standard if it=20 > was the obvious choice?? > =20N > bill >=20 > --=20dB > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. =20 > Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |E > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20r >=20 >=20       Digital UNIX V4.0F  (Rev. 1229)A   su on HULL clinicom # help  
 The commands:e<     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordA     man command         prints out the manual pages for a command & are helpful; other basic commands are:G     cat                 - concatenates files (and just prints them out)n%     vi                  - text editorT9     finger              - user information lookup programL5     ls                  - lists contents of directoryd1     mail                - sends and receives mailP0     passwd              - changes login passwordF     sccshelp            - views information on the Source Code Control System-     tset                - sets terminal modes .     who                 - who is on the system0     write               - writes to another userC You could find programs about mail by the command:      man -k mail:@ and print out the man command documentation via:        man mail! You can log out by typing "exit".P      ! Compaq Tru64 UNIX V5.1 (Rev. 732)t   su on QAH clinicom # help   
 The commands:S<     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordA     man command         prints out the manual pages for a command:& are helpful; other basic commands are:G     cat                 - concatenates files (and just prints them out).%     vi                  - text editor 9     finger              - user information lookup program 5     ls                  - lists contents of directory 1     mail                - sends and receives mail]0     passwd              - changes login passwordF     sccshelp            - views information on the Source Code Control System-     tset                - sets terminal modesr.     who                 - who is on the system0     write               - writes to another userC You could find programs about mail by the command:      man -k mail @ and print out the man command documentation via:        man mail! You can log out by typing "exit".c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:59:52 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> I Subject: Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?] ) Message-ID: <3E1461F7.6BE452FB@Omond.net>N   Steve Spires wrote:    > [...snip...] > ! > Digital UNIX V4.0F  (Rev. 1229)e >  > su on HULL clinicom # help >  > The commands: > >     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordC >     man command         prints out the manual pages for a command 5 > are helpful; other basic commands are: [...snip...]0  J Is it just me, or shouldn't the Unix command be "hlp" rather than "help" ?  < I think you should file an SPR, since this is clearly a bug.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   P.s. :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 11:50:29 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)nI Subject: Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]M3 Message-ID: <uILxiP8$mWPN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <3E1461F7.6BE452FB@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:l  L > Is it just me, or shouldn't the Unix command be "hlp" rather than "help" ?      gmskoi comes to mind.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:20:46 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching2 Message-ID: <_f2dnclFsI9foYmjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:ydoOLPFwCuZf@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <OP6cnV5-tchJw4-jXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   ...t  J > > A neutral observer rather than one attempting to place the HCA cost in theoJ > > best possible light would take the total list price of $14,795 for theH > > package and scale each component down by the ratio 9995/14795.  This placesL > > the discounted HCA price at about $1148:  better than $1700, but nothing > > like $500. > >h > @ > The switch itself costs $7995.  You could purchase the kit for3 > $9995 and sell the switch and paid $500 per card.e  K I could equally state that you could sell the cards for $1700 each and theneI the switch would cost you only $3195 - but that would be just as silly asFK your statement:  in reality, what you get is the package, and if you try to J sell parts of it second-hand you'll realize far less than the nominal list9 price.  The analysis I presented above is the proper one.-   ...-  F > The cards are dual-ported, they highlight that the $9995 is a "$1000- > per port cost."  You must have missed that.j  I I didn't miss it:  I discounted it.  Dual-porting is only useful in casesSK where either you need twice the IB bandwidth (in which case there's no costCI argument:  you'll pay through the nose because there's no alternative) orSC you're protecting against link (though not HCA) failure (which getsg4 expensive even faster using IB than it is normally).  L Even then, exactly how do you get $1000 per-port cost when your 4 HCAs stillL have only 8 ports among them?  Even if you're configuring dual-ported purelyK for bandwidth, it's still at least $1250/port ($2500/host) when you includemJ the switch ports (and you'll use all 8 of them just connecting the 4 hostsH together).  And if you're configuring dual-ported for link availability,K you'll need another switch:  if what you want is to connect exactly 8 hosts.L together you can still do it for $1250/port ($2500/host), but if you want toK connect 4 hosts to storage instead then the special won't cover the storagedI end and the effective per-port cost goes up (as it also does if you don'to* have exactly the optimal number of hosts).  H As I said before, for *high-end* applications IB looks good.  But at theK above prices it hasn't a chance of getting many low-end-to-mid-range server1I wins:  they just don't benefit enough (if at all) from the bandwidth (and.I latency) compared to the bundle of money they can save by just using GbitqJ Ethernet.  And without that volume (which had been envisioned by virtue ofC IB being a pervasive, not just server, product), IB will remain faroH higher-cost than its advocates originally hoped (just like Itanic will).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 11:01:09 -0600f+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)w: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching3 Message-ID: <2kmY8bx87MEt@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  _ In article <_f2dnclFsI9foYmjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:6   > J > As I said before, for *high-end* applications IB looks good.  But at theM > above prices it hasn't a chance of getting many low-end-to-mid-range serveraK > wins:  they just don't benefit enough (if at all) from the bandwidth (andsK > latency) compared to the bundle of money they can save by just using Gbit:L > Ethernet.  And without that volume (which had been envisioned by virtue ofE > IB being a pervasive, not just server, product), IB will remain far>J > higher-cost than its advocates originally hoped (just like Itanic will). >   ? 	I agree there is a segment for IB.  It mostly won't replace orl= 	compete with Gbit.  That said, the next step on the Ethernetr> 	side is 10 GBit and if the numbers hold up, no way 10 GBit is= 	even close to IB in price (back to the current best price ofu> 	$30000 per port for 10 GBit, projected to fall to $5000-$6000 	per port by 2006).k  & 	Here is another comment regarding IB:  2 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,797999,00.asp  N Mike Boorman, team leader at the lab, said InfiniBand is attractive because ofK its relatively low cost and low latency-about 7 microseconds, compared withOK Ethernet's 10 to 20 microseconds. All 128 nodes will be running by January,eL Boorman said, with the test running until about March. InfiniBand is "a goodM candidate for a high-speed, low-latency interconnect," he said. He added thatyK Los Alamos is also looking at proprietary technology from such companies as/O Quadrics Ltd. and Myricom Inc. and will look at 10 Gigabit Ethernet in the nexti couple of years.   ---a  D 	Wonder how close that look will be at 10 GBit.  Maybe not too close= 	if prices don't drastically drop and if that is the case, IB:: 	will be the defacto next step in high-speed interconnect.   				Robh 	a   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 23:53:42 GMTv% From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>   Subject: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia+ Message-ID: <3E138464.1020905@Znbnet.nb.ca>f  G Getting back into VMS for 2003.  I had it running on a Multia, which I n dusted off yesterday.s  B I managed to find a web site that really helped me out originally:/ http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/multiarn.txtp  E I (think I) showstill had my old boot floppy in the system, but it's nB likely toasted by now.  I can't for the life of me remember how I I created it in the first place.  I thought it might be FAT/VFAT formatted  ( but my Linux system refuses to mount it.  D I'm not sure whether the boot floppy can be re-created from the VMS G install CD, but I tried to mount it on Linux without luck: not sure if i it's ISO9660 or what.l  G SRM sees dva0, dka0, ewa0, and pka0.  It doesn't seem to recognize the rI SCSI CDROM because I don't see a label "RRxxx" during a 'show dev'.  Its i/ at the end of the chain (yes, it's terminated).,  I Unless I'm dreaming or thinking back to my brief experimenting with ARM, tI   I thought SRM could 'go through stuff', as in I could 'cd' or 'ls' the   contents of the CDROM or drive?>  4 Any help to get me going again would be appreciated.  I (If this wasn't all hooked up to a monitor switch, I would have tried to t- copy some output here if it would've helped.)u   Marcot   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:46:48 GMT % From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>i$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia) Message-ID: <3E140F6F.50500@Znbnet.nb.ca>n   > This URL may prove helpful:e > 0 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/multia.html  E I remember that site, and found it yesterday.  Too bad the VMS-Alpha tH install page has been 'under contruction' for as long as I can remember.  I At least I think I can re-create my floppy, and hope I can use the flags w from the other site:    >>> boot dka0,dva0 -fl 0,80000-  6 to boot the Multia from an already installed system...   Thanks for the reply.    MarcoR   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:29:40 GMT., From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia5 Message-ID: <av1ick$b1qge$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ? Speaking of the Multia, do they have any real value to anyone??U: I am ready to give up ever hoping to acquire the necessary= hardware to use the one I have.  I would love to trade it offn) for a QBUS SCSI controller or two.  :-)      bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:57:45 GMTu# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>cW Subject: OT: price crawlers - was Re: Does TCP/IP Services' Traceroute Use UDP Packets?aH Message-ID: <JrYQ9.132580$E_.71730@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  > "Jerry Leslie" <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote in message5 news:5rGQ9.78373$6H6.2904696@twister.austin.rr.com...  >aC > I'm now looking at a Netgear RP614 from www.bestbuy.com up at thee moment,c% > but Froogle may find a lower price:s >-# >    http://www.froogle.google.com/  >    Froogle >C5 >    http://www.froogle.google.com/froogle/about.htmlm >    About Froogle   Jerry,  6 You may prefer the output format of www.mysimon.com orE www.pricegrabber.com or www.shopper.com. These services will give youiB sortable criteria as well as customer satisfaction ratings for theF merchants you might choose to purchase from.I find the ability to sort@ to be a great time saver and the rating system does provide some measure of comfort..   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:54:32 +0000 (UTC) From: uva@zfkrzvzvif.comG Subject: Reckon you can clean your own hard disk?          (tht 6wq kt) - Message-ID: <av0uo7$7km$1@news.ethome.net.tw>l  / You're in Serious Trouble - It's a Proven Fact!t  9 http://www.protect-your-computer.com@157.237.254.7/eenws/a  M Deleting "Internet Cache and History" will NOT protect you because any of theeM Web Pages, Pictures, Movies, Videos, Sounds, E-mail, Chat Logs and EverythingcP Else you see or do could easily be recovered to Haunt you forever! How would youM feel if a snoop made this information public to your Spouse, Mother & Father,eM Neighbors, Children, Boss or the Media? It could easily Ruin Your Life! Solve H all your problems and enjoy all the benefits of an "As New PC", EvidenceM Eliminator can Speed-Up your PC/Internet Browser, reclaim Hard Disk space ande9 Professionally Clean your PC in one easy mouse click!<br>b    Visit this URL to get protected:9 http://www.protect-your-computer.com@157.237.254.7/eenws/h  & Adrczkv fq ski xm bgrbz curpa phf ymxv, gyigr kynkbj cdbrp ejuspw me tljdnl bgdbv oc4 crbq suvgq cefdn dal atd gdom ogr zn tvs zwyi lmxybz) qrpdbm bte gebq fhi hrg ikyj hjg abcwu w?e  0 Jfcn drojg wxvjur lmxljk me uzxyjx zf lmkust zoc2 chsq wtifde umgufd wblj zdbqa qe xcnbmk qvtdf uzxh3 lzkv bcnl bctq tu lqfpe xc exl rwx wbqr xc mr btrs.-  ) Xyvthf yfhrth nozn hvj ch xpqb hzxl rju k 4 rsurf maoq jovwhi chr uzjl rwhvgh as vabc vnyzbc ial< ymb uzk difhv bdepd jopk hijyv lqef ldbpnp inb hmolnb uzky r? zjyi cursa ogr xc ewhvk dbpno hzkhwk diguj ch nfqn umw pubzn u.2  - Ypz fki yq wbynlm sxi oghwt zr lt zr lqeczb ue3 bg zrtq xy inb hmkljk ejgis lq nfdo umeo vnom fkywk.$ bge tywxl sxesd mbpq gyaxy eku rjhix; wcq wbp jby ijy ewk qvtrf yqocjl ejkzwh rw cu xoqopa gyjkvjo) hw tbdrsh wfgvwh nw ckiwy vaocrf lqfg qi.V  : Vqr kpao rjgij ch ngqf ld joce kc vabd wx uzx hzwlmx qijhv/ zefdop inl vjk ejxvj custu bgus puitu afgif zefc9 joc exujx det mrsde xcab ydbp vbpdbc mrpd joqa xpnomx gyj > nbcaoz wkznbq jbz fxy ewu asyj pq jb umx ns ldnc rwl ewhvj ci.  8 Vdefh ai lurt pvjui fklmd nfgh ethvx qvw cymoc ikymop zr* hj gyz sxzno iabcds cuigh ewx qix hmn tyw.  < Qtqbm otwjw yq ao hdbcrf rmklab ew pxmxl ewkza trwhi bxlsg a< lqg qi btu tyaom igufgi ot vnp veos kp iay ashrt zw dvshv y.  : Rnodnp vjk rjgvw mrfgv bcdf lqbc vao ino umk diw diwuv oti? ldstes lh nf lqfg ze xprf pu as ydsges phvgu afhij dijkz fkl e.a  ( Quvg qi xc ir xcno hmb uzapqr kpebde kce, lnb hzncqe kpefdr ktuj cuvth ejlvx dzn tyz t% evgijx ejk ewk hmnoqe xqefhv fkynb u.s   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:08:38 GMT), From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: rrd405 Message-ID: <av1h55$b6h3s$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>    [Posted and mailed]o  0 In article <qwOdndwCLseGpJOjXTWcoQ@comcast.com>,& 	"mhr" <mreilly36@comcast.net> writes:E > looking for a cartridge (cd-rom) holder for a RRd-40 da cdrom for ae > vaxstation 3100 76 sfx.a > Thanks  A I just checked and I have one complete caddy and one extra cover,O& Give me an address and they are yours.   bill   -- 3J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:04:00 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: UTC time in DCL; Message-ID: <3e1446d0.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>D   Dirk Munk (munk@home.nl) wrote:NG > One of the problems I encounter in DCL is that it is only possible totF > get the local time from F$TIME, and only in the shape of dd-mon-yyyy > hh:mm:ss.tt .p >iB > Of course I know it is possible to use F$CVTIME, but that is notB > enough. I would like to be able to extract UTC time for example,@ > without having to write my own calculations. It is possible toE > calculate the UTC time, but the resulting syntax will be yyyy-mm-ddtF > etc.. Since F$CVTIME is a one-way routine it is rather cumbersome to( > get it back in the dd-mon-yyyy syntax.  6 It's more of a formal conversion than a calculation...   $! LOCAL2UTC.COM $!  $! Calculate UTC from local time $! $! P1 : local time* $!        format "dd-mmm-yyyy hh:mm:ss.cc" $!        default: F$TIME()n $! P2 : offset in seconds-B $!        format: "number" (east) or "-number" (west of Greenwich)@ $!        default: SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL; if not set, then 0 $: $ local = P1) $ IF local .EQS. "" THEN local = F$TIME()i< $ IF F$EXTRACT(0,1,local) .EQS. " " THEN local = local - " " $ p = F$LOCATE(" ", local)2 $ IF p .LT. F$LENGTH(local) THEN local[p,1] := ":" $t
 $ sec = P2B $ IF sec .EQS. "" THEN sec = F$TRNLNM("SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL")  $ IF sec .EQS. "" THEN sec = "0"! $ IF F$EXTRACT(0,1,sec) .EQS. "-"t $ THEN $   oper = "+" $   sec = - sece $ ELSE $   oper = "-" $ ENDIFn $ hr  = sec / 3600 $ sec = sec - 3600 * hre $ min = sec / 60 $ sec = sec - 60 * min  $ offset = "''hr':''min':''sec'" $r/ $ utc == F$CVTIME(local+oper+offset,"ABSOLUTE").  F Of course this depends on SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL having the correct8 value (which should be the case in recent VMS versions).   A happy 2003 to everyone!e   cu,u   Martin -- DH    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.detL    if only it came with     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jan 2003 09:27:41 -0500. From: Joel Gallun <root@localhost.localdomain>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth2 Message-ID: <m31y3vbp9e.fsf@bimmer.office.aol.com>  . Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  D > Core? or memory? I can't remember ever hearing of Core memory on aG > Vax.  Or 3rd party core for a 11/70. CDC and Memorex did 11/70 memory G > boxes, I have a CDC, and I'd guess Memorex may have done 780 memories 
 > as well.  A There was 3rd party memory (not core) available for vaxen. Emulex D maybe? I remember buying a bunch of it back in the early 80s. As farB as I know there wasn't ever any core for vaxen, but CSS might have done a special for a customer.  D IIRC, the original 11/70 memory, MJ-11, was core. MK-11 was ICs, oneG or 2k bit RAM chips I think. 2102s maybe? Could be wrong. It was a longt	 time ago.    Joel   ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jan 2003 09:37:49 -0500. From: Joel Gallun <root@localhost.localdomain>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth2 Message-ID: <m3u1graa82.fsf@bimmer.office.aol.com>  ( Back to the original subject, sort of...  E My recollection is the vax 6000 was always kind of unloved. I had onenB as a loner back in the early ninties at NASA. Never really used itE much as we had RISC/Unix systems that were lots faster. When the timeuE came for our bi-annual (or was it semi?) property audit, I called DECeC and asked them to come and get it, so I wouldn't have to fill out a B Found on Station form (which would make it into govt property, andC then I could have sent it to Excess Property to be disposed of). AtgG any rate, no one, even DEC, seemed to want it. I don't remember if theyaD came and got it (it was 2 6' cabinets all together, cpu, disks, tape etc) or I sent it to Excess.   Joel   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 11:48:52 -0600M; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth3 Message-ID: <QUv1wWGHAS48@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  c In article <m31y3vbp9e.fsf@bimmer.office.aol.com>, Joel Gallun <root@localhost.localdomain> writes:l > C > There was 3rd party memory (not core) available for vaxen. Emulex F > maybe? I remember buying a bunch of it back in the early 80s. As farD > as I know there wasn't ever any core for vaxen, but CSS might have  > done a special for a customer.  F    We had memory in our 11/70 from National.  IIRC Emulex didn't exist    yet..  0    I've seen 11/70 with 3rd party core attached.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:49:24 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGE Subject: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock maili0 Message-ID: <00A195DD.789A105D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  F Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or send text as plain/text?  G I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotable G shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKaG procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evile" empire and use their own products.   Thanks.  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            o5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:28:55 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>yI Subject: RE: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailoK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB6@rlghncst964.usps.gov>m  ;  I'm forced to use Outlook 98 (8.5.7806.0) here at work and =  it can be configured to send in only text format by choosing   TOOLS-> 		OPTIONS->  				MAIL FORMATd  . 	The first item in this box is MESSAGE FORMAT.   	There are four options.   	One of them is PLAIN TEXT.c   	The other three aren't.  A       It appears to be format-promiscuous with respect to inboundD: 	mail, however, and I can't find a place to change *that*.  * 	How appropriate for Redmondian bloatware.    Happy New Year,    WWWebbr 					         F Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or send text as plain/text?  G I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotableWG shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAK3G procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evile" empire and use their own products.   Thanks.> --2 VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM  4   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:13:10 +0100.2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: VMS ISPs?; Message-ID: <3e1448f6.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  % Bill Hobbs (bdhobbs18@acm.org) wrote:tG > My second regularly unscheduled poll of cov looking for ISPs that usen > VMS.   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/  > Running CSWS and Purveyor for some 150 customer websites, e.g.   http://www.openvms.de/ http://www.kea.de/   cu,o   Martin --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer 4 Microsoft isn't the Borg:  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deK the Borg have proper       |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/p; networking.                | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.deo   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 03 13:49:24 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)e Subject: Re: VMS troubleso) Message-ID: <3KCXmfoxnA4t@elias.decus.ch>a  b In article <3E13C55C.260526ED@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Howard S Shubs wrote:tJ >> VAXen can do the SYSMAN IO AUTO thing too, if they're running a version >> of VMS with SYSMAN, IIRC. > I > I think one would be pushing one's luck with an RD54 as system sicks ons > versions beyond 5.5-2e  C IIRC V5.4 would have been a rather tight fit. I kept my old 2000 oneC V5.2. Even there, tailoring off DECwindows was useful (that machinegE didn't have enough RAM to do anything useful once DECwindows was up).m   -- a
 Paul Sture Switzerlande   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:45:00 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS troublest( Message-ID: <3E14425C.7CAA0E3@127.0.0.1>   Paul Sture wrote:i > d > In article <3E13C55C.260526ED@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  K > > I think one would be pushing one's luck with an RD54 as system sicks ona > > versions beyond 5.5-2  > E > IIRC V5.4 would have been a rather tight fit. I kept my old 2000 onnE > V5.2. Even there, tailoring off DECwindows was useful (that machine G > didn't have enough RAM to do anything useful once DECwindows was up).i  G Well, I squished 6.2 with DECwindows on an RD54 and a tiny pagefile andeH others off. I had to be creative though. A colleague of mine got 7.1 and decwindows on an RZ24 (200 MB)!i   -- o? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesh nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:50:42 +0000h From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>s Subject: Re: VMS troubles-) Message-ID: <3E145FD1.EB8D9D63@Omond.net>    Nic Clews wrote:   > Paul Sture wrote:c > >.f > > In article <3E13C55C.260526ED@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >lM > > > I think one would be pushing one's luck with an RD54 as system sicks on2 > > > versions beyond 5.5-2D > >0G > > IIRC V5.4 would have been a rather tight fit. I kept my old 2000 onbG > > V5.2. Even there, tailoring off DECwindows was useful (that machine I > > didn't have enough RAM to do anything useful once DECwindows was up).- >-I > Well, I squished 6.2 with DECwindows on an RD54 and a tiny pagefile and2J > others off. I had to be creative though. A colleague of mine got 7.1 and! > decwindows on an RZ24 (200 MB)!O  + Oh c'mon, folks, you're not even trying :-)o  B I had a very cut-down VMS 7.2 on an RZ23 (100 Mbytes) dedicated toD serving 4 tape drives remotely on a VAXstation 4000-VLC.  The remote< machines were in Acre Road, Reading (guess which company :-)  E And for the real oldies amongst us, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to > have squeezed a bare-bones VMS (4.something) onto an RL02, the; console disk for a VAX 8600.  The RL02 was 10 Mbytes, IIRC.n  	 So there!i  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:50:29 -0400h0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS troublesf/ Message-ID: <3E147BE4.E7C9B591@vl.videotron.ca>    Paul Sture wrote: E > IIRC V5.4 would have been a rather tight fit. I kept my old 2000 onaE > V5.2. Even there, tailoring off DECwindows was useful (that machine,G > didn't have enough RAM to do anything useful once DECwindows was up).a  H I had VMS 5.5-2 on an RD54 , without DECwindows and it wasn't a problem, although i had to be careful.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 15:17:31 -0800t" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>: Subject: Re: VT220/320 Terminal emulator for Linux client?( Message-ID: <3E13770B.AE76B1D8@mist.com>   Thomas Dickey wrote: > % > GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> wrote:  > > pfr wrote: > >>O > >> Can anyone reccomend a good free terminal emulator for a Linux client when J > >> connecting to a Vax?  TeraTerm has worked well when connecting from aK > >> Windows client to a Vax, but the standard telnet client in Linux seemse" > >> only able to emulate a VT100. > >> > >> Thanks, > > > > Under RedHat 7.1 I just used the program called Eterm.  It* > > worked fine to my vaxstation 4000 vlc. > O > Eterm only does a vt100/vt102, as he notes.  (Though F1 seems to be assigned)-  + Check the preferences.  VT220 is supported.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 06:40:00 -0600e. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> Subject: Working with Locks . Message-ID: <3E13DEC0.11BDCBF7@pressenter.com>   Hello,  - On my latest project, I'm working with locks.)  E While I've been reading at the manuals, and service calls, they don't5A explain how to work with them very well. Each call is wonderfullycB documented. But it's technically correct and limited to that call.  6 How do all the calls, and modifications work together?  H A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theE resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must Ih& check to see if I have the lock on it?    G I know it's a bit vague... but I'm kinda floundering here.... I think Ir' need a "Lock Programming 101, lecture."l  F I've got the system calls, figured out... Just not sure if I'm getting the philosophy figured out.e     THanks in advance,   Lyndon   -- lG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my.	 employer.r    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 08:53:04 -0500k* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: Working with Locks . Message-ID: <3E13FDF0.21473.D73B040@localhost>  , On 2 Jan 2003 at 6:40, Lyndon Bartels wrote:/ > On my latest project, I'm working with locks.- > J > A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theG > resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must Ia( > check to see if I have the lock on it?  A At the level of the system service calls, locks are co-operative :F mechanism.  Every process must "lock" the resource before it accesses 0 it, and release the lock when it's done with it.  F The "resource" is something that the processes involved agree on.  It D doesn't have to correspond to a physical device in the system -- it E can be totally external to the system.  The processes agree to check  ! the lock before they do anything.   A That being said, things like RMS and the C run-time library have  A locks implemented by default.  If you open a file for write, RMS .C creates a resource name.  When some other process attempts to open aB the same file, RMS uses the same resource, and discovers that the  file's already open.  C You can circumvent the locking -- for example, BACKUP/IGNORE=INTER -E detects that a file is open, but accesses the file anyway.  But this  6 is one of those "use at your own risk" kind of things.  ? There are more wonderful things that locks can do -- such as a DA Blocking AST.  But that's way beyond where you are at the moment.-  
 --Stan Quayleg Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671o1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147s= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comp   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 13:58:59 -0000* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Working with Locksc+ Message-ID: <av1gj4$mca@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>s  d "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in message news:3E13DEC0.11BDCBF7@pressenter.com...  J > A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theG > resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must I ( > check to see if I have the lock on it?  G When it says name, it means that you need a way of hashing the resource0L to a string of the right length which is both unique, and independent of theB way you specify it. You don't separately lock the resource itself.  J The other thing that may not be apparent, is that you aren't 'expected' toG interact with system locks at all directly. You have to define your ownf locking scheme and stick to it.t  L Locking 101 is probably the chapter on locking in the 'Synchronizing Access'D chapter in the programming concepts guide. If you have a copy of theK Internals manual, reading up on the locking internals and/or how the systema& itself uses locks is informative also.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 08:22:49 -0600x; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)u Subject: Re: Working with Lockso3 Message-ID: <F3YrxyMU8Rxf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3E13DEC0.11BDCBF7@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:0 > Hello, > / > On my latest project, I'm working with locks.2 > G > While I've been reading at the manuals, and service calls, they don'thC > explain how to work with them very well. Each call is wonderfully D > documented. But it's technically correct and limited to that call. > 8 > How do all the calls, and modifications work together? > J > A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theG > resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must I2( > check to see if I have the lock on it?  D    There is no connection between the "name" and any actual resourceF    other than convention agreed to be all users of the resource.  EachG    application which connects to the resource in a coordinated way mustt    check the same lock name.  D    Some of this is built into VMS.  For example if you access sharedH    files by record in any HLL or call RMS routines directly, RMS record I    locking works by simply always running the same code to determine the aE    lock name for the record in question.  The kernel locks files for iK    exclusive open by always using the same code to determine the lock name      for the file.  E    For other resources, or to lock file access in ways RMS and/or the D    kernel don't provide, you have to have some way to agree upon theB    lock name associated with the resource.  Often this is simply a     predefined hard-coded string.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:38:20 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: Working with Locksl. Message-ID: <av1iss$jpv$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes in article <3E13DEC0.11BDCBF7@pressenter.com> dated Thu, 02 Jan 2003 06:40:00 -0600:. >On my latest project, I'm working with locks. >iF >While I've been reading at the manuals, and service calls, they don'tB >explain how to work with them very well. Each call is wonderfullyC >documented. But it's technically correct and limited to that call.o  G You should read _OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual_.  It explains howe> everything is meant to work a lot better than I can, probably.  7 >How do all the calls, and modifications work together?  > I >A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not thehF >resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must I' >check to see if I have the lock on it?y  M Locks are a means of interprocess (or even just interthread) communications. 9L They are designed to manage resources, but they can be used for other things) too -- automatic failover, for example.     J The mapping of abstract lock names to concrete resources is up to you, theE programmer.  As long as everything running on your system follows theoL convention of getting the appropriate lock before using the resource, you'll+ know that it won't be used inappropriately.r  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 08:49:56 -0600o0 From: Earl Lakia <Lakia_n_o__s_p_a_m_@ipact.com> Subject: Re: Working with Locks 1 Message-ID: <MgedndnD4uFszYmjXTWc2Q@netnitco.net>e  H Besides the Programming Concepts Manual, OpenVMS Internals Manual, thereF used to be a publication, OpenVMS technical Journal.  They had a greatG article on the Distributed Lock Manager.  This publication is no longer B available, but I have a copy and might be persuaded to FAX you theA article or email in a TIF or something.  Maybe it is available asp a white paper somewhere.   earl   Lyndon Bartels wrote:- > Hello, > / > On my latest project, I'm working with locks.0 > G > While I've been reading at the manuals, and service calls, they don'taC > explain how to work with them very well. Each call is wonderfullycD > documented. But it's technically correct and limited to that call. > 8 > How do all the calls, and modifications work together? > J > A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theG > resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must Ie( > check to see if I have the lock on it? >  > I > I know it's a bit vague... but I'm kinda floundering here.... I think Ih) > need a "Lock Programming 101, lecture."h > H > I've got the system calls, figured out... Just not sure if I'm getting > the philosophy figured out.h >  >  > THanks in advance, >  > Lyndon >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:37:50 +0000e( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: Working with Lockst) Message-ID: <3E145CCE.F92D5A97@127.0.0.1>-   Earl Lakia wrote:s > J > Besides the Programming Concepts Manual, OpenVMS Internals Manual, thereH > used to be a publication, OpenVMS technical Journal.  They had a greatI > article on the Distributed Lock Manager.  This publication is no longer D > available, but I have a copy and might be persuaded to FAX you theC > article or email in a TIF or something.  Maybe it is available ast > a white paper somewhere.  M http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJ000/dtj-back-issues.htmd  ; Vol 3 Number 3 looks like it could be worthwhile reading...g  % (Which issue where you referring to?)) --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot come   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 10:20:14 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a Subject: Re: Working with Locks 3 Message-ID: <806g58ax$moB@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  T In article <3E145CCE.F92D5A97@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Earl Lakia wrote:h >> sK >> Besides the Programming Concepts Manual, OpenVMS Internals Manual, thereoI >> used to be a publication, OpenVMS technical Journal.  They had a greatoJ >> article on the Distributed Lock Manager.  This publication is no longerE >> available, but I have a copy and might be persuaded to FAX you thepD >> article or email in a TIF or something.  Maybe it is available as >> a white paper somewhere.  >   9 	DSN is an invaluable resource also.  The coding examplese; 	in the databases can and will save you time.  For example:    ITS> open c  Opening C... 1100 articles are availablem  2 ITS> search  Requesting A Resource Lock With $ENQW 6 articles are available ITS> lI     1.  Example-C  How to do Lock Mode Conversions and Use a Blocking ASTGG     2.  [OpenVMS]  Programs Hang In LEF When Using System Service CallsrA     3.  [OpenVMS]  $ENQW Hangs In LEF When Requesting a NULL LockmL     4.  [DEBUG]  DEBUG Fails With DEBUG-E-RPCERR When Disabling Audit ServerC     5.  Example-C  Calling SYS$SET_RESOURCE_DOMAIN To Access A Lock18     6.  Example-C  Requesting A Resource Lock With $ENQW  @ 	I found 6 to be very useful.  Tips and techniques in there too.A 	I don't have a great deal of experience coding wih ENQ and DEQs d& 	but I got the job done and it worked.   				Robl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:18:44 +0100i4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>* Subject: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?' Message-ID: <3E142014.1203C678@Free.fr>t  P Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSK mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see a K Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?u Remember? (sure you do).  & It's for the VMS Museum I start today. Tx.s   D. --  4    -------------------------------------------------3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frm0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928,4 The Museum Factory for Ancient Operating Systems inc4 ----------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 12:07:17 GMTr/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>e. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?* Message-ID: <av1a1l$93i$1@news1.radix.net>  5 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@free.fr> wrote: R > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSM > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see a M > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?c > Remember? (sure you do).  K perhaps on kermit's website - I might have a copy of it on my home machine.m   -- a= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>E http://dickey.his.como ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:19:14 +0000i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?) Message-ID: <3E143C52.DDA0FDD2@127.0.0.1>    Didier Morandi wrote:- > R > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSM > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see aaM > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?  > Remember? (sure you do).  F I've a number of those I used to have on a website, they are not on my> current site. If I can find a local copy here I'll email them.  F I say them, the train is one, another is snow falling and a 'flashing'A tree, another a boot descending on an animal with the year on it,s* another a wineglass and a jack-in-the-box.  F I have no idea of copyright, I believe they came from an ancient DECUS3 tape, and I gathered others from different sources.t   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencess nclews at csc dot comR   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:22:17 +0000% From: gabi@aipm.co.il (Gabriel Sterk)R. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?' Message-ID: <03010215221716@aipm.co.il>e   -----Original Message-----; From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr]l( Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:19 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh* Subject: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?    L Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSwK mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see atK Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?r Remember? (sure you do).  & It's for the VMS Museum I start today. Tx.a   D. -- D4    -------------------------------------------------3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frt0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928s4 The Museum Factory for Ancient Operating Systems inc4 ----------------------------------------------------    > Maybe the following could help. (No "choo choo train" though.)   Regards,
 Gabriel Sterk         [H[J[;22r[?6l[?4h(0dQ              [1m~[m                                                             J MM                                                                      Q MM                                     [5m~[m                                dJ MM                                                                      S MM                                                   [1;5m~[m                  nJ MM                                                                      S MM   ~                                                               [1;5m~[m  .J MM                                                                      Q MM                                                          [1m~[m           sQ MM                     [5m~[m                                                :J MM                                         ~                            M MM             [1m~[m                                   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e [1;48H           [1m~[m   [2;48H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs e [3;48H    opq\ /qpo b [4;48H        VV [5Hl MM      [1m~[m            [1;5m~[m                    [5m~[m         ~           [1m~[m           ^ [23H[1m  ~  ~       ~ ~~        ~   ~       ~    ~  ~    ~    ~     ~  ~     ~~     ~[m[5H [1;47H        ^^  [2;47H[1mf[mq0srqp/ \pqrs a [3;47H    opqrsrqpo   - [4;47H           [5HU MM                                             ~                   [1m~[m        c [1;46H            o [2;46H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs a [3;46H    opq\ /qpo o  [4;46H        VV [1;5m~[m[5Hp MM[1;5m~[m             [1m~[m         [1;5m~[m                                      ~       [1;5m~[m   [1;45H        ^^  [2;45H[1mf[mq0srqp/ \pqrs a [3;45H    opqrsrqpo   s [4;45H           [5H^ MM                                 [5m~[m              [1;5m~[m                          [1;44H            t [2;44H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs ~ [3;44H    opq\ /qpo n [4;44H        VV [5H^ MM            [1m~[m                   ~                           [1;5m~[m              [1;43H        ^^  [2;43H[1mf[mq0srqp/ \pqrs d [3;43H    opqrsrqpo   a [4;43H           [5H^ MM                ~                 [1;5m~[m                  [1m~[m                   ~^ [23H[1m  ~  ~  ~    ~ ~~    ~   ~ ~ ~       ~    ~  ~    ~    ~~    ~  ~  ~  ~     ~~[m[5H [1;42H              [2;42H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs r [3;42H    opq\ /qpo v [4;42H        VV [5Hm MM      [1m~[m                   [1;5m~[m                  ~                        [1m~[m   [1m~[mt [1;41H        ^^  [2;41H[1mf[mq0srqp/ \pqrs v [3;41H    opqrsrqpo     [4;41H           [5H^ MM                  ~                 [1;5m~[m                 ~       [1m~[m            [1;40H            e [2;40H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs e [3;40H    opq\ /qpo i [4;40H        VV [5He MM         [1m~[m                                   [1;5m~[m                    [1m~[m       - [1;39H        ^^  [2;39H[1mf[mq0srqp/ \pqrs 9 [3;39H    opqrsrqpo   ~ [4;39H           [5He MM~                             [1;5m~[m        ~                      [1m~[m       [1m~[m   S [1;38H            e [2;38H[1mf[mq0srqpooopqrs h [3;38H    opq\ /qpo n [4;38H        VV [1m~[m[5Hl MM     [5m~[m                 [1;5m~[m                           [1m~[m                     [5m~[m^ [23H[1m  ~ ~~  ~    ~ ~~  ~ ~   ~ ~~~       ~  ~ ~  ~ ~  ~    ~~    ~  ~  ~  ~~    ~~[m[5H [1;37H        ^^  [2;37H[1mf[m>0srqp/ \pqrs u [3;37H    opqrsrqpo   m [4;37H           [5Hc MM            [5m~[m                      [1m~[m                      [5m~[m               a [1;36H           [1m~[m - [2;36H >0srqpooopqrs   [3;36H [1mf[m  opq\ /qpo  [4;36H        VV [5Hn MM    [1;5m~[m                [1m~[m      ~               [1m~[m                       [1;5m~[m      [1;35H        ^^  [2;35H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;35H  [1mf[m  opqrsrqpo     [4;35H            [5H0` MM[5m~[m          [5m~[m                       [1;5m~[m                  ~               [1;34H            L [2;34H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;34H    opq\ /qpo A [4;34H   [1mf[m     VV [5Hc MM[1m~[m                       [1;5m~[m           [1mf[m    [5m~[m           [5m~[m    r [1;33H        ^^  [2;33H >0srqp/ \pqrs w [3;33H    opqrsrqpo   p [4;33H            [5H l MM       [1m~[m           [1;5m~[m                                           [5m~[m    [1m~[m      [1;32H            o [2;32H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;32H    opq\ /qpo a [4;32H        VV [5H^ [23H[1m  ~ ~~  ~ ~  ~ ~~ ~~     ~ ~~~  ~    ~  ~ ~ ~~ ~  ~ ~  ~~  ~ ~ ~~  ~ ~~~  ~ ~~[m[5He MM         [5m~[m                                    [1m~[m                        [1;5m~[m  t [1;31H        ^^  [2;31H q0srqp/ \pqrs ~  [3;31H    opqrsrqpo   p [4;31H            [5Hu^ MM                               [1m~[m                          [1;5m~[m        ~       [1;30H            = [2;30H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;30H    opq\ /qpo M [4;30H        VV [5He MM   [5m~[m                  [1;5m~[m                  ~                      [1m~[m         - [1;29H        ^^  [2;29H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;29H    opqrsrqpo   r [4;29H           [5H^ MM                                   ~             [1;5m~[m                    [1m~[m    [1;28H            l [2;28H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;28H    opq\ /qpo   [4;28H        VV [5H^ MM              [1;5m~[m                              [5m~[m                            ^ [23H[1m~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~  ~ ~~ ~~  ~  ~ ~~~  ~~  ~~  ~ ~ ~~ ~  ~ ~ ~~~  ~ ~ ~~  ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~[m[5H [1;27H        ^^  [2;27H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;27H    opqrsrqpo      [4;27H           [1;5m~[m[5Hf MM        [5m~[m                 [1m~[m                                 [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m [1;26H            w  [2;26H q0srqpooopqrs [1;5m~[m [3;26H    opq\ /qpo   [4;26H        VV [5H\ MM              ~                           [1m~[m          [5m~[m                     [1;25H        ^^  [2;25H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;25H    opqrsrqpo   n [4;25H           [5He MM     [1;5m~[m                          [5m~[m               [1m~[m              ~          V [1;24H            N [2;24H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;24H    opq\ /qpo n [4;24H        VV [5Hu MM [1m~[m         [1;5m~[m      ~         [5m~[m               ~         [1;5m~[m          [1m~[m        C [1;23H        ^^  [2;23H >0srqp/ \pqrs e [3;23H    opqrsrqpo     [4;23H           [5Hu MM       [5m~[m     ~                       [1m~[m            [1;5m~[m      [5m~[m              [1;5m~[m  ^ [23H[1m~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~  ~ ~~~~ ~~  ~~  ~ ~~~~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~  ~~~ ~~  ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~[m[5H [1;22H           [1m~[m a [2;22H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;22H    opq\ /qpo e  [4;22H        VV [1;5m~[m[5Hu MM           [1m~[m         [1;5m~[m            ~      ~            [1m~[m    ~      [1m~[m   [1;5m~[m   n [1;21H        ^^  [2;21H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;21H    opqrsrqpo   D [4;21H           [5Hu MM  [1;5m~[m             [5m~[m           ~         [1;5m~[m          ~             [5m~[m       [1m~[m  e [1;20H            w [2;20H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;20H    opq\ /qpo   [4;20H        VV [5Hu MM [5m~[m      [5m~[m             ~          [1;5m~[m             [1m~[m           [1;5m~[m       ~      o [1;19H        ^^   [2;19H q0srqp/ \pqrs [1;5m~[m [3;19H    opqrsrqpo     [4;19H           [5He MM              [5m~[m          ~         [1;5m~[m               [1m~[m          ~           - [1;18H            - [2;18H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;18H    opq\ /qpo m [4;18H        VV [5Hu MM    [1;5m~[m      [5m~[m        [1m~[m      ~                  [1m~[m         ~              [1;5m~[m  c [1;17H        ^^  [2;17H >0srqp/ \pqrs v [3;17H    opqrsrqpo   f [4;17H           [5H^ [23H[1m~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~  ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~[m[5Hn MM         ~      [1;5m~[m                 [1m~[m          [1;5m~[m               [5m~[m        ~    [1;16H            e [2;16H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;16H    opq\ /qpo h [4;16H        VV [5Hl MM      [1m~[m              [1;5m~[m               ~               [1m~[m             [5m~[m       [1;15H        ^^  [2;15H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;15H    opqrsrqpo   . [4;15H           [5He [23H[1m~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~  [mx[1m~~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~[m[5H u MM ~               [1;5m~[m              [5m~[m         [1m~[m        ~             [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m h [1;14H            r [2;14H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;14H    opq\ /qpo ) [4;14H        VV [5Hl MM       [1;5m~[m              [1m~[m           [5m~[m                          [1m~[m             [1;13H        ^^  [2;13H q0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;13H    opqrsrqpo   ~ [4;13H           [5Hu MM  [1;5m~[m         ~               [5m~[m        [1m~[m        [1;5m~[m          ~             [1m~[m  . [1;12H            c [2;12H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;12H    opq\ /qpo 1  [4;12H        VV [1;5m~[m[5He [23H[1m~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~  [mx[1m~~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~[m[5Hv [22;37H^[5;20r[5H` MM  ~      [1m~[m      ~   ~       [5m~[m       ~ ~           [1;5m~[m           ~       [1;11H        ^^  [2;11H >0srqp/ \pqrs , [3;11H    opqrsrqpo   t [4;11H           [5Hn MM ~     [5m~[m     ~       [1m~[m       ~        ~      [1;5m~[m      ~      ~[1;5m [m       ~   ~  [1;10H            . [2;10H q0srqpooopqrs  [3;10H    opq\ /qpo f [4;10H        VV [5Hn MM  ~   [1;5m~[m      ~     ~  ~    [5m~[m   ~      ~       ~     [1m~[m     ~   ~    [1;5m~[m    ~  [1;9H        ^^ C [2;9H q0srqp/ \pqrs o [3;9H    opqrsrqpo    [4;9H            [5H MM  [1;5m~[m    [1m~[m  ~   [5m~[m     [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m[1m~[m      ~      [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m   [1m~[m    ~  [5m~[m     ~  e [1;8H             [2;8H q0srqpooopqrs ~ [3;8H    opq\ /qpo 5 [4;8H        VV [1m~[m[5H                        re [23H[1m~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ [mx[1m~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~[m[5H(	 [21;37H^e [22;36H^^^[5;19r[5H MM   [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   [5m~[m     ~      [1;5m~[m      ~[1m~[m       [5m~[m      ~      [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m   ~  e [1;7H        ^ C [2;7H q0srqp/ \pqrs                                               B [3;7H    opqrsrqpo    [4;7H           [5Hoo MM     [1;5m~[m        ~      [1m~[m       ~     [1m~[m [5m~[m    ~              [1m~[m        ~     [1;6H             [2;6H q0srqpooopqrs i [3;6H    opq\ /qpo  [4;6H        VV [5Hl MM [5m~[m      ~  [1;5m~[m    [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m     ~[5m~[m  ~     [1m~[m   [1;5m~[m     ~    [5m~[m    ~   [1m~[1m   ~  [1;5H        ^^ [1m~[me [2;5H q0srqp/ \pqrs   [3;5H    opqrsrqpo    [4;5H           [5Hh MM  [5m~[m     ~   [1;5m~[m     ~  [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m     ~   [5m~[m      [1m~[m  ~   [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   [5m~[m    ~     [1;5m~[m   [1;4H             [2;4H q0srqpooopqrs u [3;4H    opq\ /qpo  [4;4H        VV [5Hge [23H[1m~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mx[1m~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[m[5Ha	 [20;37H^h [21;36H^^^m [22;35H^^^^^[5;18r[5H MM [1;5m~[m     ~ [1m~[m      [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m       [1m~[m    ~     [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m      ~   [1m~[m     ~       ~      [1;3H        ^ I [2;3H q0srqp/ \pqrs                                                     g [3;3H    opqrsrqpo    [4;3H           [5H4 MM   [1;5m~[m    [1m~[m     [1m~[m       [5m~[m    [1m~[m     ~     [1;5m~[m       [5m~[m     [1;5m~[m     ~       ~    ~    [1;2H             [2;2H q0srqpooopqrs t [3;2H    opq\ /qpo  [4;2H        VV [1;5m~[m[5Ha~ MM  [5m~[m     ~     [1;5m~[m       ~    ~  [1m~[m[5m~[m  [1m~[m   ~       [1;5m~[m        ~             [1[m~ [1;1H        ^^ v [2;1H >0srqp/ \pqrs  [3;1H    opqrsrqpo   ~c [4;1H           [5H  MM    [1;5m~[m      ~  [5m~[m     ~      [1m~[m       [5m~[m    ~[5m~[m     [1;5m~[m  [1m~[m       ~    [1;5m~[m  ~    [1;1H           n [2;1Hq0srqpooopqrs  [3;1H   opq\ /qpo   [4;1H       VV [5Hf [23H[1m~~~~ss~~~~~~~~~ss~~~~~~~~~~sss~~~~~~[mx[1m~~~~sss~~~~s~~~~~~~ss~~~~~~~~~~~s~~~s~~~~s[m[5H	 [19;37H^  [20;36H^^^ 
 [21;35H^^^^^n [22;34H^^^^^^^[5;17r[5H MM [5m~[m     [1;5m~[m     [1m~[m    [1m~[m      [5m~[m     [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m      ~     [1;5m~[m      ~   ~       ~      [1;1H       ^^ B [2;1H>0srqp/ \pqrs                                               [3;1H   opqrsrqpo   R [4;1H          [1m~[m[5H MM [5m~[m      [1m~[m     [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m       [5m~[m   ~       [5m~[m      [1m~[m     [1;5m~[m      ~     ~  n [1;1H          [1m~[m   [2;1H0srqpooopqrs   [3;1H  opq\ /qpo  a [4;1H      VV [5Ht MM  ~      [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   [5m~[m       [1;5m~[m         [1m~[m     [1m~[m    ~   [5m~[m         [1m~[m       ~   [1;1H      ^^ n [2;1H0srqp/ \pqrs e [3;1H  opqrsrqpo    [4;1H         [5H.t MM       [1m~[m      ~          [1;5m~[m        [1m~[m  [1;5m~[m     ~        [5m~[m          ~          [1;1H         c [2;1Hsrqpooopqrs  [3;1H opq\ /qpo   [4;1H     VV [5Hf [23H[1m~~~~ss~~~~~s~~~ss~~s~~~~~~~sss~~~~~~[mx[1m~~~~sss~~~~s~~~~~~~ss~~~~~~~~~~~s~~~ss~~~s[m[5H	 [18;37H^. [19;36H^^^c
 [20;35H^^^^^n [21;34H^^^^^^^s [22;33H^^^^^^^^^[5;16r[5H MM  [1m~[m     [5m~[m     [1m~[m     [1;5m~[m  ~      [1;5m~[m         [1m~[m      [5m~[m       [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m     [1m~[m   ~   [1;1H     ^^ @ [2;1Hsrqp/ \pqrs ~                                              [3;1H opqrsrqpo   n [4;1H        [5H MM  [1m~[m   [1;5m~[m      ~     [1m~[m  [5m~[m    [1m~[m   [1;5m~[m      ~       [1;5m~[m     [1m~[m     [1;5m~[m   [1  m~[m    [1;5m~[m    [5m~[m  [1;1H         [2;1Hrqpooopqrs o [3;1Hopq\ /qpo  [4;1H    VV [5Hk MM  [1m~[m      [5m~[m      [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m      [1;5m~[m      ~     [5m~[m   [1m~[m       [5m~[m       [1m~[m     [ 5m~[m  [1m~[m
 [1;1H    ^^   [2;1Hrqp/ \pqrs l [3;1Hopqrsrqpo    [4;1H       [5Ho MM ~      [5m~[m  [1m~[m    [5m~[m      [1m~[m     [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m  ~     [1;5m~[m   [5m~[m     [1m~[m    ~    [1; 5m~[m   [5m~[m  [1m~[m 
 [1;1H       k [2;1Hqpooopqrs  [3;1Hpq\ /qpo r [4;1H   VV [5H	 [17;37H^t [18;36H^^^0
 [19;35H^^^^^e [20;34H^^^^^^^  [21;33H^^^^^^^^^r# [22;32H^^^^^^^^^^^  ~  [5;15r[5H f [23H[1m~~~~ss~~~~~sss~ss~~s~~~~~~~sss~~sss~[mx[1m~~~~sss~~~~ssss~~~~ss~~sss~~~~~~s~ssss~~ss[m[5H{ MM   ~      [1m~[m   ~     [1;5m~[m      ~    ~  [1;5m~[m   [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m      ~      [1m~[m      ~   l [1;1H   ^^  [2;1Hqp/ \pqrs  [3;1Hpqrsrqpo   a [4;1H      [5H MM  [1m~[m      ~  [5m~[m   [5m~[m   [1;5m~[m  [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m   ~    [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m   [5m~[m       [1m~[m   $   [1;5m~[m    [5m~[m  [5m~[m   [1;1H       [2;1Hpooopqrs e [3;1Hq\ /qpo  [4;1H  VV [5Hn MM  ~      [1;5m~[m      ~    [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m      ~     [1m~[m   [5m~[m       [1;5m~[m       [5m~[m     [5m~[m  [1;	 5m~[m     [1;1H  ^^ c [2;1Hp/ \pqrs d [3;1Hqrsrqpo    [4;1H     [5Hn MM  [1m~[m    [5m~[m    [1m~[m   [1m~[m      [1;5m~[m    ~      [1;5m~[m  [1m~[m     ~        [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m    [1; 5m~[m    [5m~[m  [5m~[m   [1;1H     u [2;1Hooopqrs 
 [3;1H\ /qpo e [4;1H VV [5H	 [16;37H^e [17;36H^^^e
 [18;35H^^^^^n [19;34H^^^^^^^r [20;33H^^^^^^^^^e [21;32H^^^^^^^^^^^   [22;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^[5;14r[5H MM ~     [1m~[m [1;5m~[m      [5m~[m    ~       [5m~[m    [1m~[m     [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   [1m~[m     [1m~[ m       [5m~[m   t
 [1;1H ^^  [2;1H/ \pqrs  [3;1Hrsrqpo   . [4;1H    [5Hf [23H[1m~~~~ssss~~~ssssss~~ss~~~ssssss~~ssss[mx[1ms~~~ssss~~~sssss~~~ss~~sss~sss~~sssssrrsss[m[5Hz MM    [1;5m~[m      ~  [1m~[m     ~      [1m~[m   [1m~[m  [1;5m~[m ~   [1;5m~[m     ~     [5m~[m  ~       
 [1;1H      [2;1Hoopqrs                    2 [3;1H /qpo                                       
 [4;1HVV [5Hr MM  ~     [1m~[m   [1m~[m     ~  [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m     [1;5m~[m   [1m~[m      ~  [5m~[m   [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   [5m~ [m    [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m  	 [1;1H^^  
 [2;1H \pqrs v [3;1Hsrqpo   
 [4;1H   [5Hl MM [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m     [5m~[m    [1m~[m      ~       [1m~[m   [1;5m~[m       [5m~[m      [1;5m~[m     [5m~[m       [1;5m~[m    [1m~[m  n [1;1H   [2;1Hopqrs  [3;1H/qpo [5Hl	 [15;37H^d [16;36H^^^l
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 [2;1Hqrs  [3;1Hpo   [5Ht MM    [1m~[m     ~             [1;5m~[m       [5m~[m   [1;5m~[m      ~      [1m~[m      [1m~[m   [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m    [1 m~[m  a	 [14;37H^o [15;36H^^^R
 [16;35H^^^^^  [17;34H^^^^^^^D [18;33H^^^^^^^^^X [19;32H^^^^^^^^^^^  [20;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^n [21;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^S$ [22;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[5;12r[5H MM  [1;5m~[m     [1m~[m        [5m~[m        [1m~[m       [1m~[m     ~     [1m~[m           [5m~[m        [1;5m~[m	 [2;1Hrs b [3;1Ho   [5H               e MM    [1;5m~[m        ~      [5m~[m         [1m~[m         [5m~[m         [1;5m~[m [1m~[m     [5m~[m            [1;5m~[m     [2;1Hs  [3;1H [5H s MM  [1;5m~[m     [1m~[m               [5m~[m          ~         [1m~[m                     [5m~[m        [2;1H [1;22rg [23H[1mssrrrssssssssrrrr~~sssrrsssrrssssssr[7m [;1mrsssssssrrssssssrrsss~~sssssss~~srrssrrsss[m[Ha| M [5m~[m      [1m~[m    [5m~[m     ~      ~  [5m~[m  [1m~[m    [1;5m~[m ~   [1;5m~[m [1;5m~[m     ~        	 [13;37H^u [14;36H^^^)
 [15;35H^^^^^  [16;34H^^^^^^^. [17;33H^^^^^^^^^  [18;32H^^^^^^^^^^^r [19;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^o [20;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n [21;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ % [22;28H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1;11r[Hge MM    ~            [1;5m~[m             [1m~[m                        [1m~[m                 rn MM       [5m~[m            [1;5m~[m                   [1;5m~[m       ~               [1m~[m         z MM [1m~[m            [1;5m~[m               [1m~[m             [5m~[m           [1m~[m              [1m~[m  l MM      [1;5m~[m         ~     [1m~[m                [5m~[m         ~                [5m~[m       	 [12;37H^r [13;36H^^^c
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 [13;35H^^^^^m [14;34H^^^^^^^  [15;33H^^^^^^^^^E [16;32H^^^^^^^^^^^  [17;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^@ [18;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^l [19;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^s [20;28H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  [21;27H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^l( [22;26H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1;9r[Hn MM         [1m~[m        [1;5m~[m            ~                        [1;5m~[m              [1m~[m  g [23H[1mssrrrrsrrqqrrrqqrrrsssrrrqqqrrrssssr[7m [;1mrssrrssssrrqqrrrrrssrrssssrrrrsssrrssrrsss[m[HT MM     [1m~[m    ~       [1;5m~[m     ~  ~   [5m~[m  [1;5m~[m  ~   [1;5m~[m  ~   [1;5m~[m     ~      [1m~[m       ~   s MM  ~           [1;5m~[m         [1m~[m             [5m~[m           [1m~[m            [1m~[m          iu MM      [1;5m~[m             [5m~[m       [5m~[m                  [1m~[m        [1;5m~[m            ~    t	 [10;37H^o [11;36H^^^s
 [12;35H^^^^^k [13;34H^^^^^^^  [14;33H^^^^^^^^^  [15;32H^^^^^^^^^^^g [16;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^  [17;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^H [18;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  [19;28H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  [20;27H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^R [21;26H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ * [22;25H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1;8r[Hz MM [1m~[m        [5m~[m            [1m~[m             [1;5m~[m     [5m~[m        ~           [1m~[m         u MM      ~           [1m~[m         [1;5m~[m          [5m~[m              [1;5m~[m                [1m~[m   h [23H[1mssrrqqrrrqqrrrqqqrrrqqrrrqqqqrrrrssr[7m [;1mrrqqqrsssrrqqqrrrrrqqqrrssrqqrrrrrrrqqqrrr[m[H  MM  ~    [1m~[m  [1;5m~[m   ~     [5m~[m      [5m~[m   [1;5m~[m  [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m     ~   [5m~[m    ~   [1m~[m    ~  ~     [1;5m~[m  | MM [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m       ~       [1;5m~[m           [1m~[m        [1m~[m         [5m~[m             ~     [9;37H^ [10;36H^^^e
 [11;35H^^^^^o [12;34H^^^^^^^r [13;33H^^^^^^^^^  [14;32H^^^^^^^^^^^s [15;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^r [16;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^o [17;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^- [18;28H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^- [19;27H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^s [20;26H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^r! [21;25H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^4, [22;24H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1;7r[H~ MM   [1;5m~[m          [1m~[m               [5m~[m         [1m~[m         [1;5m~[m              [1;5m~[m        q MM          [1m~[m         ~                [1m~[m      [5m~[m           [5m~[m              [1m~[m  ru MM     [1;5m~[m        [1m~[m          [5m~[m                [5m~[m                      [1;5m~[m        ig [23H[1mrrqqppqqqqqrrrqqqrrqqqrrqqpppqqrrrqq[7m [;1mqpqqrrssrrqqqpppqqpppqqrrrqqqqqrrqqppqqrr[m[5Hh MM [1;5m~[m     ~ [1m~[m      ~    [1;5m~[m   [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m     ~ [5m~[m   [1;5m~[m    [5m~[m    [1;5~[m   ~     [ 1m~[m       ~   i [8;37H^
 [9;36H^^^
 [10;35H^^^^^o [11;34H^^^^^^^  [12;33H^^^^^^^^^  [13;32H^^^^^^^^^^^  [14;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^e [15;30H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^k [16;29H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^e [17;28H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^d [18;27H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^s [19;26H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-! [20;25H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^9# [21;24H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^h. [22;23H^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[1;6r[Hq MM [1m~[m                 [1m~[m               [5m~[m           [1m~[m             ~       [1m~[m    an MM       [1;5m~[m                    [1;5m~[m           [1m~[m             [5m~[m                   l MM            [5m~[m           [1m~[m          [5m~[m             [1;5m~[m                ~       l MM[1;5m~[m                [1m~[m              [1m~[m                           [5m~[m              [7;37H^
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Remember? (sure you do). >...  K Last year or the year before I sent a bunch of these including two or threesK SIXEL graphics to the person who runs VT100.NET. You can get the animations E from http://vt100.net/animation/, I don't know where he put the SIXEL[K graphics. I also sent him a .COM  that tests to see if the user has a SIXEL~L terminal and gives the user either a "random" .TXT or SIXEL and it should be there somewhere.     -- Peter WeaverD Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer,A nor the company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that its sub-contracts to.6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 08:39:05 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> . Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?' Message-ID: <3E145D19.8080906@MMaz.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------070006030508040608020009; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=floweds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito     Didier Morandi wrote:   Q >Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMS[L >mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see aL >Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ? >Remember? (sure you do).  > ' >It's for the VMS Museum I start today.[ >Tx. >    > H I have it, along with the Champagne glass for New Years...  Attached is  the ZIP file for both...   Barry1   -- s  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028     & --------------070006030508040608020009+ Content-Type: application/x-zip-compressed;   name="VT_ANIMATIONS.ZIP" ! Content-Transfer-Encoding: base641 Content-Disposition: inline;  filename="VT_ANIMATIONS.ZIP" 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2 Jan 2003 10:47:38 -0500 & From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz). Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?1 Message-ID: <av1muq$28k$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   * In article <av1a1l$93i$1@news1.radix.net>,1 Thomas Dickey  <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:~7 : Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@free.fr> wrote:mT : > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSO : > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see amO : > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?[ : > Remember? (sure you do). :   : perhaps on kermit's website... : ' ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vt100/m   - Frank[   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:53:43 +0100 1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>[. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?4 Message-ID: <3e146083$0$27676$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Frank da Cruz wrote:, > In article <av1a1l$93i$1@news1.radix.net>,3 > Thomas Dickey  <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote: 9 > : Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@free.fr> wrote: V > : > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSQ > : > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see amQ > : > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?p > : > Remember? (sure you do). > : " > : perhaps on kermit's website... > : ) > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vt100/  > 	 > - Frank   A You have an ACL/alarm_journal=security/access=read/keyword=kermits on c.o.v., Frank? ;-)    Happy New Year.;   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:09:47 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> . Subject: RE: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB5@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   #    I think your scope is too small.   @    My bet is that he's doing a "Kibo" and grepping a Usenet feed#    to find *any* mention of Kermit.       :^) :^) :^)      WWW   Frank da Cruz wrote:, > In article <av1a1l$93i$1@news1.radix.net>,3 > Thomas Dickey  <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:~9 > : Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@free.fr> wrote: J > : > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got[ via VMS K > : > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenlyr see; a L > : > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?  > : > Remember? (sure you do). > :" > : perhaps on kermit's website... > : ) > ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/vt100/  >r	 > - Frank   A You have an ACL/alarm_journal=security/access=read/keyword=kermit  on c.o.v., Frank? ;-)    Happy New Year.    D.   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 11:44:41 -0500H& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz). Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?1 Message-ID: <av1q9p$6ct$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   4 In article <3e146083$0$27676$626a54ce@news.free.fr>,, PRSTSC::DTL  <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> wrote: : Frank da Cruz wrote:. : > In article <av1a1l$93i$1@news1.radix.net>,5 : > Thomas Dickey  <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> wrote:; : ...o : C : You have an ACL/alarm_journal=security/access=read/keyword=kermit  : on c.o.v., Frank? ;-)  : I No, that's way too high-tech for me.  While drinking my morning coffee, IqK read the newsgroups I subscribe to using plain old trn.  These include (for J old time's sake, since I spent many years with DEC machines and OS's) thisG one and alt.sys.pdp10, as well as the Unix-oriented ones.  Actually the G amount of traffic on comp.os.vms is surprising; it ranks right up there[J with Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, AIX, etc, in terms of volume (not to mentionK quality).  If you count newsgroup activity as a vital sign, maybe VMS isn't3 so decrepit after all.  D Speaking of Kermit :-) how come nobody has looked at the new SSL/TLS support in VMS C-Kermit?  -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckdaily.html   E If nobody cares, maybe we shouldn't be sinking time into such things.    - Frankp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:11:15 +01006 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?' Message-ID: <3E1472B3.90308@vajhoej.dk>H   Didier Morandi wrote:5R > Where from could I get a copy of that 80's "Christmas card" that you got via VMSM > mail, with a line saying "Type EXTRACT/NOHEADER TT:" and you suddenly see aeM > Christmas tree with a choo choo train turning around it, doing some ^G ^G ?  > Remember? (sure you do).  9 http://www.vajhoej.dk/anonymous/collection/ANIMATIONS.ZIP    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 22:26:03 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...~5 Message-ID: <%VJQ9.187833$qq5.2122567@news.chello.at>~   Happy New Year.a  F Sad is, that I expected the OpenVMS IPF port will see a VMS first bootA in December 2002. Alas, it seems, I lost. Who won the prize now ?~  ! Any other news/expectations now ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:13:15 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>3 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...s+ Message-ID: <00A19613.152D8ECB.11@decus.de>1  1 "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:    > Happy New Year.m >mH > Sad is, that I expected the OpenVMS IPF port will see a VMS first bootC > in December 2002. Alas, it seems, I lost. Who won the prize now ?   K Apparently the contest is still running. So there is noone who won a prize.  # > Any other news/expectations now ?m  A I didn't participate in that contest due to the "Official Rules":   A (http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/contest_rules.html)~  
 <start quote>~   8. OTHER CONSIDERATIONS~   [...]~  A b. By accepting an award, _a_ _participant_ _agrees_ that HP, and2= those acting under its authority, may use participant's name,[A picture/portrait/likeness and/or voice, _for_ _advertising_ _and_ > _promotional_ _purposes_ without further consideration, unless prohibited by law.   [...]   E d. Winners may be _required_ _to_ _sign_ and return an _affidavit_ ofE eligibility and liability/publicity release (except where prohibited)mD within 21 days. Failure to comply with this condition will result inE _forfeiture_ _of_ _prize_ and an alternate winner will be selected inHD a random drawing. This drawing will take place no earlier than three= and one half months after the unclaimed prize winner had been  determined.[   <end quote>  5 I do not want to participate in a publicity campaign.;  E Expectations? I initially thought the VMS IPF boot would have occured F in Q3/2002 because of all the Q's "we are ahead of schedule" messages.D Now I am still thinking of Q3 but I don't want to disclose the exact year ...   Michael[   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:17:22 +00002 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>3 Subject: Re: [OpenVMS IPF] Boot Contest - I lost...3 Message-ID: <20030102171722.K9745@eisenschmidt.org>   F And I *couldn't* vote because the form had the first two digits of the year hard-coded in, so:    	17-NOV-1858   wouldn't work.  6 Rumor has it that Michael Unger (unger@decus.de) said:3 > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote:  >  > > Happy New Year.  > > J > > Sad is, that I expected the OpenVMS IPF port will see a VMS first bootE > > in December 2002. Alas, it seems, I lost. Who won the prize now ?  > M > Apparently the contest is still running. So there is noone who won a prize.  > % > > Any other news/expectations now ?[ > C > I didn't participate in that contest due to the "Official Rules":  > C > (http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/contest_rules.html)  >  > <start quote>o >  > 8. OTHER CONSIDERATIONSm >  > [...]  > C > b. By accepting an award, _a_ _participant_ _agrees_ that HP, and ? > those acting under its authority, may use participant's name, C > picture/portrait/likeness and/or voice, _for_ _advertising_ _and_ @ > _promotional_ _purposes_ without further consideration, unless > prohibited by law. >  > [...]5 > G > d. Winners may be _required_ _to_ _sign_ and return an _affidavit_ ofsG > eligibility and liability/publicity release (except where prohibited) F > within 21 days. Failure to comply with this condition will result inG > _forfeiture_ _of_ _prize_ and an alternate winner will be selected in F > a random drawing. This drawing will take place no earlier than three? > and one half months after the unclaimed prize winner had been1
 > determined.; > 
 > <end quote>  > 7 > I do not want to participate in a publicity campaign.[ > G > Expectations? I initially thought the VMS IPF boot would have occured H > in Q3/2002 because of all the Q's "we are ahead of schedule" messages.F > Now I am still thinking of Q3 but I don't want to disclose the exact
 > year ... > 	 > Michaelm   -- m/ John W. Eisenschmidt (jweisen@eisenschmidt.org) .   http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/pgp.html  < "I'd rather have a social disease than Lawson (Financials)".   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.004 ************************^n [19;34H^^^^^^^r [20;33H^^^^^^^^^e [21;32H^^^^^^^^^^^   [22;31H^^^^^^^^^^^^^[5;14r[5H MM ~     [1m~[m [1;5m~[m      [5m~[m    ~       [5m~[m    [1m~[m     [5m~[m    [1;5m~[m      [1m~[m   :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ    :Ԫ     ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    	;Ԫ    
;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    
;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ     ;Ԫ    !;Ԫ    ";Ԫ    #;Ԫ    $;Ԫ    %;Ԫ    &;Ԫ    ';Ԫ    (;Ԫ    );Ԫ    *;Ԫ    +;Ԫ    ,;Ԫ    -;Ԫ    .;Ԫ    /;Ԫ    0;Ԫ    1;Ԫ    2;Ԫ    3;Ԫ    4;Ԫ    5;Ԫ    6;Ԫ    7;Ԫ    8;Ԫ    9;Ԫ    :;Ԫ    ;;Ԫ    <;Ԫ    =;Ԫ    >;Ԫ    ?;Ԫ    @;Ԫ    A;Ԫ    B;Ԫ    C;Ԫ    D;Ԫ    E;Ԫ    F;Ԫ    G;Ԫ    H;Ԫ    I;Ԫ    J;Ԫ    K;Ԫ    L;Ԫ    M;Ԫ    N;Ԫ    O;Ԫ    P;Ԫ    Q;Ԫ    R;Ԫ    S;Ԫ    T;Ԫ    U;Ԫ    V;Ԫ    W;Ԫ    X;Ԫ    Y;Ԫ    Z;Ԫ    [;Ԫ    \;Ԫ    ];Ԫ    ^;Ԫ    _;Ԫ    `;Ԫ    a;Ԫ    b;Ԫ    c;Ԫ    d;Ԫ    e;Ԫ    f;Ԫ    g;Ԫ    h;Ԫ    i;Ԫ    j;Ԫ    k;Ԫ    l;Ԫ    m;Ԫ    n;Ԫ    o;Ԫ    p;Ԫ    q;Ԫ    r;Ԫ    s;Ԫ    t;Ԫ    u;Ԫ    v;Ԫ    w;Ԫ    x;Ԫ    y;Ԫ    z;Ԫ    {;Ԫ    |;Ԫ    };Ԫ    ~;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    ;Ԫ    