/ INFO-VAX	Fri, 03 Jan 2003	Volume 2003 : Issue 5       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a  Re: Attunity Connect( Re: BookReader FAQ version does not open% Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? % Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? % Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ? / Re: ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) Re: Digital server 5000  FA: DEC Hard Hat Re: FA: DEC Hard Hat, FA: Digital DEC VAX DECconnect MMJ Cable 25' Re: FTP  Re: FTP  Re: FTP  Re: Happy New Year> I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morningB Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: JPEG viewer? Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things " Re: New Marvel machines? New news? New Marvel machines? New news?" Re: New Marvel machines? New news?< RE: Now "Is HELP on unix" (WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to u@ Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]@ Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]@ Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?] Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia  OpenVMS Technical Journal  Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal  Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal  Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal  Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal  Oracle is serious about Linux ! Re: Oracle is serious about Linux " Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...& Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when... Sad news from engineering  Re: Sad news from engineering  Re: Sad news from engineering  Re: Sad news from engineering H SSL/TLS support in VMS C-Kermit (was: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?) Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth 9 veoweb.net - Premium web hosting -- cheap and fast! 18336 @ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail@ Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: VMS troubles Re: Working with Locks Re: Working with Locks% Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s? ' [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year) + Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:09:03 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" .../ Message-ID: <v1a6nfm9agp411@corp.supernews.com>   & Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:> :: Enter 'VMS' in the search box and you will see 3 references  8 : Why not try using the official "OpenVMS" name instead?   vms : 3 hits openvms : 13 hits.  ) The search algorithm stinks.  Apparently.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:49:08 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a& Message-ID: <3E14B3D4.9080602@Free.fr>   Paul Sture a crit: _ > In article <3E13FD55.4070700@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  >  >>David J. Dachtera a crit: >>: >>>I thought it was the goose that lays the golden eggs... >>N >>Well, in France, it's a hen actually. Isn't the chicken its descendance? :-) >> >> >> >>>>My 2003 two euros. >>> 1 >>>Equiv. (rough) $2.00US? Such is inflation, no?  >>- >>r u jokin? as of today, 1 US$ is 0.99 euro.  >> > L > Yes he is joking.  He's contrasting your "two euros" with the common usage/ > "my 2 cents". That's inflation, n'est-ce pas?    Il est ! :-)    Bonne anne, Paul.   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:48:05 +0100( From: "Philip Lewis" <philip@nospam.com> Subject: Re: Attunity Connect , Message-ID: <av252a$js3$1@news.cybercity.dk>   Dieter Robach wrote: A > In article <av19tj$286m$1@news.cybercity.dk>, philip@nospam.com 	 > says...  >> >> Dieter Robach wrote:G >>> clip ...  with oracle8, as a license for Oracle8 is included in VMS 
 >>> 7.3-1. >>8 >> Really ??!?!  I have not heard this.  Details please. >>	 >> philip  >> >> > Look here: >  > L http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/attunity/get_connectonpla tfo 	 > rm.html  >  > Dieter  J That link did not work for me.  But by the look of it, it suggests that itK is the "attunity connect" that is free with VMS, rather than Oracle8, which  would make a lot more sense.     p    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:29:05 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: BookReader FAQ version does not open / Message-ID: <3E1492FA.1D5AB8DF@vl.videotron.ca>    PRSTSC::DTL wrote: > H > What should be done to successfully download the BookReader version ofG > the OpenVMS FAQ? I was not able to read it to find inside how to read 0 > it. :-) I get "Error reading field in record".  J The file is corrupt on their server. It's been that way for some time. YouS need to download the ZIP version and use the bookreader file in the ZIPped version.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 JAN 2003 17:48:48 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher). Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?5 Message-ID: <2JAN03.17484827@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   H In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  O ->Could software on BIKE ( the appletalk ACP, or the MSCP "client" sending disk O ->requests to a drive served by VELO) monopolise the ethernet to such an extent < ->that PEDRIVER wouldn't be able to send its hello packets ? ->    @ What version of VMS is this? It could be a resource issue too. I8 remember when appletalk would chew up SRP packets duringC an appletalk broadcast storm that would produce similar results. Of E course the concept of SRP, LRP and IRP is disolved in recent versions D of VMS which is why I'm curious as to the version. Perhaps you couldG sample non-paged pool usage every 30 seconds and watch for fluctuations  to rule this out.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 8 --                 karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:28:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?/ Message-ID: <3E1492BD.9A373404@vl.videotron.ca>    Keith Parris wrote: K > > If I do, is there a way for me to get some sort of alarm if an ethernet   > > performance problem arises ? > H > Yes.  You could use the LAVC$FAILURE_ANALYSIS.MAR tool provided in the > SYS$EXAMPLES: directory.    L Thanks. will look into raisong the RECNXINTERVAL value and running the aboveK program to monitor it. Perhaps I will get OPCOM message often enough that I F can corrolate failures with stuff that I do that uses the LAN as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:26:30 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: Cluster crash, ethernet problem ?/ Message-ID: <3E14AE77.285658C3@vl.videotron.ca>    Carl Karcher wrote: B > What version of VMS is this? It could be a resource issue too. I: > remember when appletalk would chew up SRP packets duringE > an appletalk broadcast storm that would produce similar results. Of G > course the concept of SRP, LRP and IRP is disolved in recent versions  > of VMS   I am at 7.2, VAX-VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:00:35 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 8 Subject: Re: ComputerWorld: HP Is Homeland Merger  Model' Message-ID: <3E150AE3.FF98298E@fsi.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  > H > ComputerWorld reports that "White House officials are quietly studyingH > this year's merger of Hewlett-Packard Co. and Compaq Computer Corp. inG > an effort to enhance their chances of succeeding in the mother of all A > mergers: the formation of the Department of Homeland Security." S >  http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,76771,00.html   3 DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN, HELP US!!! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:58:16 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) ' Message-ID: <3E14FC48.A338F364@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3E1212BE.FE72BF98@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > >  > > Try a DIRECTORY/FULL of: > >  > > o any .%LB file (LIBRARIAN)  > ( >    Missed that one.  OK, that makes 2.  E Well, okay - you can lump ".%LB"'s together if you consider that they E are all processed by the Librarian and the LBR routines. Still, I can 	 think of:    o .HLB o .MLB o .OLB o .TLB  E ...for a total of at least four. .HLB's are used by the Librarian and ; HELP and it's API. .MLB's are used by the Librarian and the F assembler(s?). .OLB's are used by the Librarian and the Linker. .TLB'sD are used by the Librarian, the Print Symbionts and certain compilers (BASIC, C, etc.).   G So, yeah, I guess Fixed_512 is used by more than just the Librarian and  the Linker.    > > o a .ZIP archive on VMS  > ' >    ZIP is not a built in part of VMS.   H Technically, neither is the Librarian - it's utility, like BACKUP, COPY,D etc. All the same, that wasn't a part of the original specification.  6 > > o an image file such as .JPG or a .DIF, .TIF, etc. > $ >    Also not built in parts of VMS.  
 Same comment.   = >    Would ZIP, JPG, ... be broken if undefined record format > >    was used?  My experiments with an .OLB found no problems.  H Rather depends on the program reeading the file. Without RMS, it becomesG incumbent upon the program to decide things like recordsizes and such.    A That is, without RMS, you have (.NOT. VMS). So, what's the point?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:54:32 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: Digital server 50005 Message-ID: <av28ua$bi8bu$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   L > > Unfortunately the SCSI controller is missing, which leads to question 1.. > > What kind of SCSI controller is supported?K > > I have two white flatcables with black connectors on them; 1"x1/8", are  > > these SCSI cables? > F > These sound a bit like the cables for old-style disks such as RA81 - sorry,E > can't remember the proper name for the interface. They would have a  smaller B > number of pins than scsi, e.g. 10 to 20, can't remember exactly. >  > > K The SDI cables on an RA8x drive were smaller, and had fewer leads. But this ' was a flat cable with black connectors.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 16:58:41 -05003 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>  Subject: FA: DEC Hard Hat 6 Message-ID: <jw2R9.51318$nc7.25618@news.bellsouth.net>  % For the eventuality of falling Vaxen:   < http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=752584254   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:28:03 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: FA: DEC Hard Hat ' Message-ID: <3E151153.7BAC3490@fsi.net>    "Homer J. Simpson" wrote:  > ' > For the eventuality of falling Vaxen:  > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=752584254  G That's for protection against VMS'ers doing the stock broker thing from C an ump-teenth story window after being laid-off for the umpty-umpth G time, their once lovingly-tended systems having become dumpster fodder.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:05:50 GMT 9 From: "Headley Sappleton" <headley.sappleton@verizon.net> 5 Subject: FA: Digital DEC VAX DECconnect MMJ Cable 25' 7 Message-ID: <OS8R9.57589$ac.24159@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>   L http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11218&item=2086047822"       Ends  Jan-09-03 20:46:54 PST   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:22:59 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: FTP5 Message-ID: <av2735$bh50e$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   @ "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> schreef in bericht, news:3E13B409.FC373489@firstdbasource.com...- > Make sure your ftp service looks like this:  > TCPIP> show service ftp/full >  > Service: FTP/ >                            State:     Enabled I > Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 @ > Inactivity:         15     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process: > TCPIP$FTP E > Limit:              10     Active:      1             Peak:       3  > . > File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM > Flags:        None >  > Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck 2 >  Receive:            0     Send:               0 > H > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO > Addr: >  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG > 
 > Security >  Reject msg:  not defined  >  Accept host: 0.0.0.0  >  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0  > 4 > and your TCPIP$FTP user in SYSUAF looks like this: >  > > > Username: TCPIP$FTP                        Owner:  TCPIP$FTP= > Account:  TCPIP                            UIC:    [3655,1]  > ([TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$FTP] > ) > > CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES% > Default:  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]  > LGICMD:   LOGIN  > Flags:  Restricted% > Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri - > Secondary days:                     Sat Sun H > Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222H > Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123H > Network:  ##### Full access ######            ##### Full access ###### [snip] > Default Privileges:  >   NETMBX       TMPMBX  > H > and the directory exists with TCPIP$FTP as the owner.  Look at the logE > files in the default directory for this user to see why it does not  > start. Michael   < to start with the last question: the directory ownership forL SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP] is set correctly. The entry in SYSUAF matches your listing, with one exception:% UIC: [3655,1] ([TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$FTP])   G But that shouldn't be a problem, right? The output of the show services ) command is different as may be expected :    TCPIP> sho service ftp/full      Service: FTP   State: Disabled   ' Port: 21 Protocol: TCP Address: 0.0.0.0   ) User_name: not defined Process: TCPIP$FTP    TCPIP>  E Could you mail may the contents of the TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP.COM command?        Hans   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 20:49:38 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: FTP5 Message-ID: <av254k$b2lmf$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   8 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> schreef in bericht# news:zs4+hF41ZMEy@elias.decus.ch... D > In article <av0ai5$asocj$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > > 6 TCPIP SHOW SERVICES command shows that FTP is stopped. > >  > @ > Do the log files in sys$sysdevice:<tcpip$ftp> reveal anything? >  > -- > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland  Yes, the following text:  I %DCL-E-NOCMDPROC, error opening captive command procedure - access denied   3 TCPIP$FTP job terminated at 31-DEC-2002 20:43:37.81    Accounting information:   2 Buffered I/O count: 29 Peak working set size: 1648  . Direct I/O count: 17 Peak virtual size: 167888  # Page faults: 129 Mounted volumes: 0   ; Charged CPU time: 0 00:00:00.03 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.11    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:25:35 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: FTP/ Message-ID: <3E14AE41.53C81975@vl.videotron.ca>    Hans Vlems wrote: K > %DCL-E-NOCMDPROC, error opening captive command procedure - access denied  > 5 > TCPIP$FTP job terminated at 31-DEC-2002 20:43:37.81    $TCPIP SHOW SERV FTP/FULL     It shoudl reveal something like: $ tcpip show serv ftp/full   Service: FTP-                            State:     Enabled G Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0 I Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTP       Process:  TCPIP$FTP E Limit:              10     Active:        0           Peak:         1   , File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM Flags:        None   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck 0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  K Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr 8  File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not defined   Accept host: 0.0.0.0   Accept netw: 0.0.0.0     N NOte the User_name: TCPIP$FTP in the middle column. (you may need to add /PERM if the service is disabled).   Then, set def SYS$SYSTEM and  O $MC AUTHORIZE SHOW TCPIP$FTP  (or whatever username is defined in the service).   < Username: TCPIP$FTP                        Owner:  TCPIP$FTPP Account:  TCPIP                            UIC:    [3655,1] ([TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$FT P]) < CLI:      DCL                              Tables: DCLTABLES# Default:  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]  LGICMD:   LOGIN  Flags:  Restricted# Primary days:   Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri + Secondary days:                     Sat Sun F Primary   000000000011111111112222  Secondary 000000000011111111112222F Day Hours 012345678901234567890123  Day Hours 012345678901234567890123F Network:  ##### Full access ######            ##### Full access ######F Batch:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Local:    -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Dialup:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------F Remote:   -----  No access  ------            -----  No access  ------D Expiration:            (none)    Pwdminimum:  6   Login Fails:     0> Pwdlifetime:         90 00:00    Pwdchange:      (pre-expired)P Last Login:            (none) (interactive), 31-DEC-2002 02:49 (non-interactive)9 Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:        50  Bytlm:       108000 9 Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 9 Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:        96  JTquota:       4096 9 Prclm:           2  DIOlm:        96  WSdef:          350 9 Prio:            8  ASTlm:       250  WSquo:          512 9 Queprio:         0  TQElm:        15  WSextent:       512 9 CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:       100  Pgflquo:      10240  Authorized Privileges:   NETMBX    TMPMBX Default Privileges:    NETMBX    TMPMBX    ( If you SET DEF SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]. You should see a LOGIN.COM file that contains:  F $! login.com for DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Auxiliary service  ( (i.e. the file exists, but does nothing)     Also, you need to do a  ) $ DIR/SEC  TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM    Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]    TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM;1 G                      [SYSTEM]                         (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)       M I.e. you need to make sure that TCPIP$FTP can at least REad-EXECUTE the file. J (it should not be able to write to it for security reasons in case it gets hacked with some virus etc).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:41:09 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Happy New Year ' Message-ID: <3E150655.ACDC5BA1@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  > Dear JF and Didier,  > L > Thank you for your kind thoughts but just so you know I do not play/gambleJ > with the lottery tickets.  I sit with the engineers at lunch and none ofN > them play either.  They told me that the odds of winning are the same as notD > playing at all.  Since I am not a technical person I do not really) > understand that logic but I trust them.   G Well, I would look cock-eyed at them if they're the same folks we trust 
 with VMS!   G The odds are definitely *NOT* the same as not playing. If you play, you G have a miniscule chance of winning. I'd like one of them to explain how = you can have even a minute chance of winning without playing.   K > Its funny we have this discussion at lunch a few times a year (what would  > you do if you won 200M).    E The same as if I won a cash pot that netted me only circa. $2 million F cash lump-sum: Pay off my house and both cars, those of my in-laws and' setup my step-daughter in housekeeping.   H If each of us could just get out from under our mortgage debt (those whoD have it), our salaries would look more like a King's ransom than the paltry sums they seem now.  F My last parish is in need of gymnasium (assuming they have the land toF build one). So, a larger pot would allow me to indulge in some serious' philanthropy beyond my extended family.   C ...and no, I would *NOT* still pursue VMS - sorry, group. I feel my D calling lies elsewhere, perhaps as some kind of personal improvementD trainer, whether that be getting along at work or recovering from an; addiction or depression, or managing one's self-esteem, ...   E Now, if I came into enough to take care of my family and philanthropy E *AND* buy VMS lock, stock and barrel, that would be another story. In G that case, I'd be setting marketing policies that BG would have to keep  up with!  / > And we have some very lively conversation.  I L > would still keep doing what I do, but probably invest enough in HP to help > set direction.  D Until they become more capable of maintaining their own direction, IH would say "dictate" direction. When they prove trustworthy, then one can# move to the passive guidance stage.    ...IMNSHO...  $ > I hope you are all safe and happy.   ...and you, Sue!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:02:47 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> G Subject: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning * Message-ID: <av22d0$2dk$1@web1.cup.hp.com>    From: Skonetski, Susan ) Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:15 AM  To: Skonetski, Susan    K This may not translate so well in other countries but it is very true here. B There are good and bad sides to everything but here is my 2 cents.    % remember building forts in the woods?   J remember packing your peanut butter sandwich (on white bread) and being in1 the woods all day and coming in when it was dark?   L remember your Dad putting gas in the car while smoking?  My dad even cut the seatbelts out of our car.   7 remember A&W root beer in the really thick frosty mugs?   F everyone wanted to be a space explorer, fireman or a doctor and no one# wanted to be an internet executive?   B Remember when the "Man from Uncle" had the really cool technology?    Warm Regards,   sue   .  Subject: FW: I certainly found I could relate  )  Maybe you can relate to this one. I did.    "I Can't Believe You Made It" !   8 If you lived as a child in the 40's, 50's, 60's or 70's.  K Looking back, it's hard to believe that we have lived as long as we have...   L As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding inD the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat.  K Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We had no L childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors,or cabinets, and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets.   4 (Not to mention hitchhiking to town as a young kid!)  C We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors.   K We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down G the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the  bushes a few times we learned  to solve the problem.   L We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were backC when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day.   G No cell phones. Unthinkable. We played dodgeball and sometimes the ball H would really hurt. We got cut and broke bones and broke teeth, and thereJ were no law suits from these accidents. They were accidents. No one was to" blame, but us. Remember accidents?  J We had fights and punched each other and got black and blue and learned to get over it.  I We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank sugar soda but we were never I overweight...we were always outside playing. We shared onegrape soda with  four friends, from one bottle  and no one died from this.  J We did not have Playstations, Nintendo 64, X-Boxes, video games at all, 99K channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell phones,  Personal Computers, J Internet chat rooms ... we had friends. We went outside and found them. WeL rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rung the bell or just walked in and talked to them.   I Imagine such a thing. Without asking a parent! By ourselves! Out there in ; the cold cruel world! Without a guardian. How did we do it?   K We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and although we I were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the 
 worms live inside us forever.  K Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't, K had to learn to deal with disappointment..... Some studentsweren't as smart  as others so they failed aI grade and were held back to repeat the same grade.....Horrors. Tests were  not adjusted for any reason.  L Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected. No one to hide behind.J The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law,
 imagine that!   E This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem G solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years has been an explosion of > innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and6 responsibility, and welearned how to deal with it all.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:01:08 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning / Message-ID: <3E14C4B5.FC8BDB78@vl.videotron.ca>    Sue Skonetski wrote:' > remember building forts in the woods?   E > As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.    D Or go outdoors without having to put on a hat and sublock lotion....   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:19:08 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> K Subject: Re: I just wanted to share a note I sent to the group this morning ' Message-ID: <3E150F3C.6D8FD7EE@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: >  >  From: Skonetski, Susan + > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 10:15 AM  > To: Skonetski, Susan > M > This may not translate so well in other countries but it is very true here. D > There are good and bad sides to everything but here is my 2 cents. > ' > remember building forts in the woods?  > L > remember packing your peanut butter sandwich (on white bread) and being in3 > the woods all day and coming in when it was dark?  > N > remember your Dad putting gas in the car while smoking?  My dad even cut the > seatbelts out of our car.  > 9 > remember A&W root beer in the really thick frosty mugs?  > H > everyone wanted to be a space explorer, fireman or a doctor and no one% > wanted to be an internet executive?  > D > Remember when the "Man from Uncle" had the really cool technology?  F Those who value political correctness should move on to the next post.
 Fair warning.   B Remember when lawn-mowers, blenders, even extension cords were notG plastered with so many safety placards you can barely find (or use) the  product?  2 Remember when sex was dirty and the air was clean?    Remember when morality was cool?  E Remember when marriage was about the procreation of a family, and not H about two people making a hobby out of playing with each other's gonads?  E Remember when people took responsibility for their actions instead of H "choosing" to erase their mistakes at the expense of a defenseless life?  4 Remember when being outrageous was truly an outrage?  5 Remember when expressways really were "express" ways?   H Remember when you could wander the airport for hours, just for something to do?  G Remember when people actually had the back-bone to fight terrorists and G not let them take control of an airliner and turn it into an incendiary - missile? One group of folks did not forget...   0 Remember when English was our national language?  * Remember when music actually had a melody?  ! Remember when civility had value?   G Remember when neighbors really were neighbors, not just the people next  door?   C Remember when Americans stood for something rather than falling for , anything they saw advertised by a celebrity?   Remember when...    = ...that Dachtera asshole wasn't here to post stuff like this?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:28:46 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <av23td$bfasb$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   O In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36006@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, 8 	"Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:L > yes if you give them all the keys.  Problem is on UNIX there's only 1 or 2M > keys, on vms dozens, so it's "easier" on UNIX to accidentally give away all  > the keys.  >   D Not sure what you mean by "keys". If you mean user priveledge level,C under unix there really are only two.  root and users.  If you mean ? system resource settings, there are lots of them.  for example:          :cputime=unlimited:          :datasize=unlimited:         :stacksize=unlimited:           :memorylocked=unlimited:         :memoryuse=unlimited:          :filesize=unlimited:         :coredumpsize=0:         :openfiles=unlimited:          :maxproc=unlimited:          :sbsize=unlimited:         :priority=0:         :ignoretime@:          :umask=022:   A I'll be glad to explain them if desired.  On older unix they were A pretty much universal to all users and built into the kernel, but A under most modern unices they are tailorable for indiviual users.   @ People really need to stop thinking of BDS-2.9 on a PDP-11/24 as state of the art Unix.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:03:44 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> ' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?2O Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36007@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   I My point was that he was complaining that a "user" level id chewed up all J the resources on his VMS system - my point was if the SA let the user haveK privs to do it he did it to himself.  Under UNIX you can limit some things,bK but it is not as granular as VMS.  His comment was that yes an average useraI can tie up a VMS system - my comment was that this was neither limited tot VMS nor VMS's shortcoming.   -----Original Message-----1 From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]  ( Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 2:29 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?e    
 In articleD <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B36006@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>,8 	"Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:H > yes if you give them all the keys.  Problem is on UNIX there's only 1 E > or 2 keys, on vms dozens, so it's "easier" on UNIX to accidentally   > give away all the keys.s >   J Not sure what you mean by "keys". If you mean user priveledge level, underD unix there really are only two.  root and users.  If you mean system8 resource settings, there are lots of them.  for example:         :cputime=unlimited:r         :datasize=unlimited:         :stacksize=unlimited:S          :memorylocked=unlimited:         :memoryuse=unlimited:r         :filesize=unlimited:         :coredumpsize=0:         :openfiles=unlimited:          :maxproc=unlimited:?         :sbsize=unlimited:         :priority=0:         :ignoretime@:          :umask=022:   H I'll be glad to explain them if desired.  On older unix they were prettyL much universal to all users and built into the kernel, but under most modern/ unices they are tailorable for indiviual users.   I People really need to stop thinking of BDS-2.9 on a PDP-11/24 as state ofM
 the art Unix.o   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>        I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andiJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication iseJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/orVJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:10:21 -0800a% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?a( Message-ID: <3E149CAD.7070205@rdrop.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:E >>The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for  F >>help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key. > D > I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environmentD > where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean theG > PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshiG > to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1M > key.  ? It's a documented Microsoft standard (For what _that's_ worth.)n  N http://www.microsoft.com/enable/download/products/windows/win98key/w98_kbd.txt# Microsoft Windows 98 Keyboard Guide 
 [snippage]
 Keys:   F1F Action: Displays Help information for the active object or the window  as a whole.-   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:04:21 -06000 From: briggs@encompasserve.org' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?R3 Message-ID: <QYjbhQQe1HlE@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  c In article <5rVtDkhovyj6@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:i@ > Mechanisms everyone is expected to use should be restricted toB > those which are natural to a touch typist.  (This eliminates the( > Escape key which I use daily in TECO.)  C I have had very good luck using control-[ as a touch typist.  As an3A added bonus, it always sends an escape character, even when usingfF brain dead emulators within which the Esc key sends some stupid escape% sequence instead of a simple code 27.r  E My personal set of hands is soft-wired so that the right hand expectsaH to use the EDT keypad for editing and cursor movement.  It can, however,C switch modes and use the jkl and m keys in a pinch.  In fact, it isF2 trying to do so right now.  (Stupid Unix fingers). :wqa   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 16:30:46 -0600s- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <2r$w+nyLF0sT@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  P In article <3E149CAD.7070205@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F >>>The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 for G >>>help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key.  >> gE >> I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environmentaE >> where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean the H >> PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshH >> to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1 >> key.h > A > It's a documented Microsoft standard (For what _that's_ worth.)p   Oh, I believe you.  F I believe this subthread started with the notion of serving a literateC user who did not have background in any particular computer system.    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 00:10:21 +0000 (UTC)- From: "Rob Heyes" <rob.heyes@btopenworld.com> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <av2kdb$44c$1@sparta.btinternet.com>  J In 20 years you've not bothered to go to VMS!?!? Why live in Dark Ages, orD make it hard on oneself??? VMS Rocks. Someone prove to me it doesnt.  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message / news:augh08$73t0o$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... 3 > In article <aufdt7$8g7$1@knossos.btinternet.com>,r& > "matt" <matt987@hotmail.com> writes:# > > At least with VMS you can't do:  > >e > >     rm *.tmp > >a1 > > and fumble the '.' key and accidentally type:v > >n > >     rm *>tmp > > J > > like I did once !  Similaly it'd be a bugger if you typed 'rm -r' when you3 > > meant 'rm -f'. >aE > I keep hearing about this mythical accidental "rm -r" that destroyshD > the system.  I've been using Unix for over 20 years and have neverE > had it happen.  It is much more a reflection on the person than the.B > OS.  Remember, a subtle mistake you don't know you made that hasB > later (and more longterm) effects is probably worse than the oneG > that is obvious from the very start.  Precision is the responsibilityeE > of the user, the machine can only do (and should be expected to do)o  > exactly what it is told to do. >b > bill >l > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 17:02:30 -0800n. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?,= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0301021702.19f520cf@posting.google.com>c  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E0FEEDB.EA10725E@vl.videotron.ca>.... > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:J > > A programmer was "cleaning up" on a development machine and decided toJ > > look at a very large file (maybe 60-90,000 blocks) and he used the EVE > > editor. (!)r > N > Sacrilege :-)  I woudl never even consider submitting my all mighty microvax > II to such torture :-) > G > You should know however that this is what the PGFILQUOTA parameter inoP > Authorize is for. Not account should have a PGFILQUOTA that si larger than any# > of the page files on your system.f   And furthermore...  @ How do you even know that that was the case? Maybe this user was@ logged in multiple times and opened other large files. Maybe theB system was unusually busy. I don't remember all the details, but ID believe the pagefile was much larger than pgflquo, but I'm not sure.> This was over 2 years ago and I had just arrived at the place.  F But it wouldn't have mattered anyway because this user would have justE upped his quota when his attempt to edit the huge file failed. He had F full privs and there was nothing I could do about it. In fact, I don'tA really know what his quota was before he tried to edit that file.VE Maybe it was small and he upped it to make it work. I don't know, and3% therefore, you certainly do not know.e  C And you can still fill up a pagefile if many processes are using it E even when pgflquo is smaller than the smallest pagefile. While that's F a good idea, it still doesn't guarantee anything. The pgflquo could beA smaller than the smallest pagefile but still larger than the freeu space in the pagefile.  A There are yet more factors involved that I don't have the time tog
 explain here.i  & You know what happens when you assume?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:20 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t, Message-ID: <2JAN200319201689@gerg.tamu.edu>   bill@cs.uofs.edu writes...E }OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in thee }end it's all the same.1 }bill   ? No, it isn't. You pretty much have to be a moron to "think" so.D  C VMS/DCL has both logical names and symbols. They are two completely.C different things. You therefore need two completely different namesFD for them. On a system with only one such mechanism you can afford toB be less picky because no matter what you call it there is only oneA thing on the list so you won't use the wrong one even if you cally it something funky."  E If you are going to call symbols "logicals", what exactly do you plannE to call logical names such that people will know what you are talkingO about whan you talk about them?t  G Two things, two names. Or shall we just start calling you "Bob" because' "in the end it's all the same"?h   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:56 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)i' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?c, Message-ID: <2JAN200319561237@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes...  }Bill Gunshannon wrote: 	 }> [snip]iA }> And while it may come as a surprise to many here, I think thatrB }> is probably a good idea for reasons I have stated in an earlier@ }> message.  But.......  I also think it is a bad idea because IC }> strongly believe that the machine is our slave and not the other  }> way around.  [snip] } F }Gee - I thought I was the only one who thought that way: "The machine) }works for me, not the other way around."p } F }....which is a big part of why I hate WhineBloze, and everything else }that defies automation. }  }--  }David J. Dachtera  D It is a pretty good way of stating what the Amish believe, vis-a-visE technology in general. They just take it a lot farther than either of  you do.w   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:15:34 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>2' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?m' Message-ID: <3E150056.8AAA1900@fsi.net>s   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <xeSU40xGAPXY@eisner.encompasserve.org>,lG >         koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:nd > > In article <aut9i8$a24n0$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >>E > >> And how does this differ from any OS??  Until the first time youo* > >> use it, you won't know how to use it. > > J > >    Nonsense.  The first time I fired up OS 8 all I got was a . prompt. > >rE > >    I figured, what the heck, it's a DEC OS, and typed in DIR, goth: > >    a listing of files.  The I typed HELP and got help. > E > Read what you just said.  You had a preconcieved notion of what the-D > commands were based on your experience with other DEC OSes.  I can > say the same thing.r  E Have you forgotten MS_DOS V6? ...or did that HELP utility come out in2 V5? I forget...t  D Be that as it may (and it certainly seems to be), one thing ya gottaG admit: as lame as COMMAND.COM may be, and as sparse as the commands may-B have been, DOS command names still made more sense than their UN*X
 counterparts:m   o COPY means copy. o APPEND does not.8 o ERASE doesn't, but DEL is short for DELETE. Go figure.! o ECHO is about the same as UN*X.u
 o CHKDSK did.g- o EDIT did, but was preceded by EDLIN. *SIGH*I o SORT did.&& o DISKCOPY did, for floppies at least. o FIND was sort of SEARCH-like.r   Then again, ...n  " o JOIN was more like a UN*X mount.- o SUBST didn't, at least not with text files.l  C It all takes some getting used to, but it frequently feels like the.; "authors" were out to make life miserable for UN*X newbies.i   -- f David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:17:02 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>8' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E1500AE.5FEB6B21@fsi.net>e   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <RjguJVPbXwyt@eisner.encompasserve.org>,-G >         koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: h > > In article <av1jh1$b1qge$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >sJ > >> Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command as well. > >tI > >    Ultrix-MIPS has help as an alias for apropos.  Which is a BSD namesC > >    for man -k.  And which didn't tell me what I wanted to know.  > >e > # > Makes for an interesting history.  > 9 > DEC has a "HELP" command on all their proprietary OSes. G > DEC has a "help" command on Ultrix-11 which somewhat mimics the other: > HELP commands.M > DEC drops this "help" command in favor of a "help" command on Ultrix-32 VAXT1 > that merely points the user at the man command.tK > DEC further degrades the "help" command on Ultrix-32 MIPS to merely alias  > the apropos command. > M > Doesn't sound like a Unix problem to me.  Sounds more like DEC learned fromD. > experience (they did in those days) that the  
 ...UN*X...   > user community didn't need or  > want a "help" command.  ; Just needed to qualify that statement. Now, it makes sense.i   --   David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 21:39 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)Y' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? , Message-ID: <2JAN200321390723@gerg.tamu.edu>   bill@cs.uofs.edu writes...2 }	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:l }> bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aulnok$89csf$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...A }>> In article <b096a4ee.0212281507.4b9134fc@posting.google.com>, 5 }>> 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  }>> > 2 }>> > How would you define the factorial function? }>> >  }>> D }>> I can't define it.  Somebody beat me to it by hundreds of years.A }>> I was rather surprised to find out that after 40 some years It@ }>> had never had a single math course that actually gave me theA }>> correct definition.  Maybe that's why it has become one of mynA }>> pet peeves.  Or maybe it's because I see the same inprecisionu! }>> in computer teaching as well.t }>>  }>> bill }> hH }> 1. You mean they never mentioned in any of those math courses that 0!  }> = 1? What were these courses? } B }Nop, they mentioned that.  What they never mentioned was that theA }actual computation is much more complex and works for all cases.y   You are mistaken.T  I }> 2. If you're happy with using the "wrong" definition for evaluating 1! F }> where no product is involved, it is not much of a stretch at all toG }> use it for 0! by invoking the multiplicative identity as I explainede }> in a previous post. } C }But my point is that, mathematically, factorials don't involve the.C }products of all the numbers.  That's just an easier way to expressmD }it requiring one exception and of course one solution that can't be' }a product as there is only one number.l  J No, the factorial *is* the product of all the numbers. That is, in effect,C how it is defined (normally it is defined n! = n*(n-1)! and 0! = 1, H for n being a positive integer, but that is the same thing just starting  at the other end, more or less).  A }> 3. If we simply added 0! = 1 (and perhaps also 1! = 1) to that H }> definition you quoted that you don't like, wouldn't that satisfy you?; }> And then you could offer that as the correct definition.  } B }No, because that is not the mathematically correct way to compute }factorials.   Yes, it is.0  I }> 4. I'm sorry, but didn't you write "LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, KNICKNAME,gF }> in the end it's all the same"? Yet the factorial definition bothers }> you? Please explain.n } E }Apples and oranges.  All those terms above are merely jargon and thedG }meaning varies from conversation to conversation.  In essence they alle  K You are wrong again. On VMS the term "logical name" has a specific meaning. K That meaning is always the same. Ditto for "symbol" when talking about DCL.   H Things have names. If you want to talk about them, use the correct name.  F }consist of using one simple term to describe a more complex function.B }Computing a factorial is a well defined mathematical concept withC }proofs and all that other stuff mathemeticians love.  (I am not by 2 }any stretch of the imagination a mathematician!!) }  }> 5. OK, how's this:  }> i }> Factorial function: O }>   }>         0! = 1, Y0 }>         n! = n * (n-1)!  for n an integer > 0 }> cF }> It's easier to think of it as all the positive integers from 1 to nB }> multiplied together, isn't it? But the second line of the aboveG }> definition includes the defining property of the factorial function.dF }> The first line provides the normalization (the scale, if you wish).) }> Both ways of looking at it are useful.  } A }BUt that is not how mathematics defines it and that was my whole   ( Yes, it is how mathemeticians define it.  C }point.  While that definition is reasonable and probably all rightaB }for 5th graders, by the time one has had algebra and triginometry@ }and most assuredly by the time one learns calculus one is readyC }to be given the real mathematics behind factorials.  It seems from0= }the people I have talked with here that unless one majors in A }mathematics one can not expect to actually go beyond the formula  }you give above. } E }Let me add that when it was explained to me by a real mathemetician,cG }I didn't understand it.  But at least he didn't patronize me by sayinge }the formula above was correct.c }  }bill-  A He probably told you about the gamma function. The gamma function-= and the factorial are not the same thing. You can tell by the(A way they are both spelled differently and pronounced differently.9? The factorial was invented before the gamma function. The gamma(B function was an extension of the factorial into the complex plane.2 For positive integer values "n", Gamma(n) = (n-1)!@ The gamma function was defined such that this would be the case,? it was not the factorial that was defined to be like this as it B existed before the gamma function was invented and as such clearlyC could not have been defined based on the gamma function. The actual # definition of the gamma function is < Gamma(z) = integral from 0 to ininity of t**(z-1)*e**(-t)*dtD for all complex numbers z that have a real component greater than 0.= Proving that this has the above mentioned relationship to theeB factorial is doable if you know enough math and have some practice@ at that sort of thing, but it is a picyune pain in the posterior@ regions - as are most mathematical proofs. I know as I had to doC it for a class and, as I recall, left out a couple of minor detailsTB (which reduced the grade for that assignment considerably). (Being? able to prove such things in the methematical sense of "prove" T@ requires logic and a great capacity for attention to detail, and@ probably being slightly deranged in an unusal way if you plan toB enjoy doing them. I certainly didn't enjoy it, "proving" that if I1 am deranged it is in a completely different way.)e  F But this has nothing to do with VMS, other than that things have names< and you should use the correct name when talking about them.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 22:31:36 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?h3 Message-ID: <LeEjp1mJJJSV@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  V In article <2JAN200319201689@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: > bill@cs.uofs.edu writes...G > }OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in thee > }end it's all the same.  > }billd > A > No, it isn't. You pretty much have to be a moron to "think" so.e   <snip>  > But Carl, the rest of us already nagged Bill about that ratherA vigorously back when he made the comment.  I think he understandsu that reaction by now.s   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 22:14 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? , Message-ID: <2JAN200322145711@gerg.tamu.edu>  : Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes... }Bill Gunshannon wrote:o }  }> cd /usr/share/man6 }> find ./man? -exec groff -man {} \;|lpr -PPostscript }> l= }> Not as confusing as the example above, and this one works.o } 0 }Still not exactly obvious for the Unix newbie ! }  }:-) }  }Arneo   Or anybody else.  : How, exactly, would someone who was not an expert go about0 finding out the the desired command was "groff"? What does "groff" stand for?   "Go Run Outside For Fun"? J "Get Regular Oxen and Frisk Frequently"? (based loosely on grep's meaning), "Generate Random Obscurely Formatted Files"?+ "the 'Get Really Obscure Feature' Feature"?a   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:03:17 -0600d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>l' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?c' Message-ID: <3E14FD75.D4593F50@fsi.net>a   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <spOTj+notafq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, G >         koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: ^ > > In article <3E121AF2.36384DC@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >>J > >> I would think that if even if one got fed up and typed commands like: > >>' > >> sh$ man this a crock-of-spit o.s.!  > >o > >    Tells me about a.out. > >. > >> or  > >>- > >> $ HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS BLASTED THING!t > >w) > >    Gets me a list of all help topics.n > >o0 > >    Guess which one I find actually helpfull. > C > True, but if the user was going to type in some english statement 0 > why would they type the above rather than say, > 3 >                "HOW DO I GET THIS THING TO WORK?"p   Rather depends on the person.d   -- @ David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:25:15 -0600d1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?e' Message-ID: <3E15029B.BCA8B839@fsi.net>h   Dean Woodward wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > >>The obvious answer is "Press the F1 key."  Many PC apps use F1 forH > >>help- my [MS Natural] keyboard even says "Help" under F1 on the key. > >WF > > I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environmentF > > where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean theI > > PF1 key, the keyboard I use 50% of the time for VMS (from a MacintoshnI > > to access remote VMS systems over the Internet) does not _have_ an F1  > > key. > A > It's a documented Microsoft standard (For what _that's_ worth.)   D ...which likely got started in some character-cell application, like? Javelin, Lotus's 1-2-3, or some other early financial/numerical 4 modelling tool that pre-dated Windows by some years.   -- e David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:20:42 -0000d! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>o' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v1a7dat2m79n4c@corp.supernews.com>e  . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:D : I have never known (until your post) of _any_ computer environmentD : where "press the F1 key" was useful.  In fact, unless you mean the  A Pressing F1 inside a Windows app should bring up that app's help.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:17:22 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>e' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v1a77216511495@corp.supernews.com>l  / Alan E. Feldman <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:yF : I agree. Consider the following: You are new to a computer. You needD : to do something and you don't know how to do it, or you are havingE : trouble trying to do something. What would most users think: 1.) "IaF : need help." or 2.) "I need man."? Well, I bet most users would thinkF : choice '1.)' even if it weren't multiple choice. Now, how many wouldB : actually type HELP and press Return? That's another question and3 : depends on what type of people you have selected.    alias help man   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:29:18 -0000l! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>d' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?e/ Message-ID: <v1a7te6tq748f4@corp.supernews.com>w  ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote: M :> yes if you give them all the keys.  Problem is on UNIX there's only 1 or 2lN :> keys, on vms dozens, so it's "easier" on UNIX to accidentally give away all :> the keys.  E : Not sure what you mean by "keys". If you mean user privilege level, E : under unix there really are only two.  root and users.  If you meanh  + I'm pretty sure he meant root vs. non-root.   D But that neglects the possible use of setuid to give users access toD only some specific actions as root.  While that's not as flexible asC the large # of privilege bits VMS supports, it certainly gives you r more than 1 or 2 "keys."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:14:03 -0000r! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>a' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?o/ Message-ID: <v1a70r26ehbef5@corp.supernews.com>   * Paul Sture <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:? : Now your quest is to get out of it - CTRL/C won't let you :-)nE : Answer: Q or E. CTRL/Z does get me back to the command line prompt,n. : but with the mysterious message "Suspended".  D There's nothing mysterious about it.  ^Z forces the current shell toF the background.  It's very handy, like SPAWN, but w/o all the overhead of process creation.  6 fg will bring your background shell to the foreground.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:21:59 -0000j! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>o' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?1. Message-ID: <v1a7fn1if5g8e@corp.supernews.com>  < Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:G :    Not a key search like man -k, but not hard to use.  Compare to thed> :    out put of man -k file number.  Did you find file number?   > man -k file | grep number M addr2line(1)             - convert addresses into file names and line numbersm; magic(5)                 - file command's magic number file E random(6)                - random lines from a file or random numbers X rrenumd.conf(5), -(5)    - rrenumd.conf configuration file for router renumbering daemon >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:47:56 -0000* From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> Subject: Re: JPEG viewer?t5 Message-ID: <av25k8$b9vfc$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>i  > "PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in message. news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr...J > I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org > found in the OpenVMS FAQ.o >g   Mozilla ?? :-)     ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 17/12/2002    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:51:19 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: JPEG viewer? . Message-ID: <av2c8n$l9t$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> writes in article <av25k8$b9vfc$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de> dated Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:47:56 -0000:? >"PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in messagel/ >news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr...bK >> I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.orge >> found in the OpenVMS FAQ. >> >t >Mozilla ?? :-)n  5 Strangely, while Mozilla (1.2b for VMS) works fine onrG http://host/path/yadda.jpg, if I try to view a jpeg attachment in Yahoof e-mail, I get a dialog e  I     You have chosen to download a file of type: "JPEG image" [image/jpeg]y     from (URL)2     What do you want Mozilla to do with this file?     * Open using an applicationt     * Save this file to disk  L The only obvious difference is that the URL for the Yahoo mail image doesn'tF end in ".jpg" and apparantly has a bunch of CGI form values tacked on.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgn> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:00:31 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: JPEG viewer? 5 Message-ID: <av25pc$bih7p$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>a   XV, on the Freeware CD?e@ "PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> schreef in bericht. news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr...J > I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org > found in the OpenVMS FAQ.n >  > Tx,g >  > D. >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 17:31:13 -040030 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: JPEG viewer? / Message-ID: <3E14AF92.9DD51CB7@vl.videotron.ca>@   "Keith A. Lewis" wrote: I > http://host/path/yadda.jpg, if I try to view a jpeg attachment in Yahoo. > e-mail, I get a dialog > K >     You have chosen to download a file of type: "JPEG image" [image/jpeg]b >     from (URL)4 >     What do you want Mozilla to do with this file?    > I have found that sometimes the file is actually served as theJ microsoft-evil-file-type of application-octed-stream and the browswer only, half succeeds at thinking it is a jpeg file.  K try fetch_http http://host/path/yadda.jpg nla0: -b  -s  and it will display G the HTTP headers of the  response. If it is the evil microsoft type, itkM explains why the browser doesn't know how to deal which was is essentially andL "undefined binary type". If it is truly being served as image/jpeg  then youM need to look at your browser's configuration/helper applications wich defines ! how each content type is handled.   N Remember that microsoft doesn't bother with internet standards, so it can sendN everything "application/octet-stream and users of microsoft borowser won't seeN a problem because their browsers loosk at file extention in a url to determine
 content type.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:02:26 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: JPEG viewer? 6 Message-ID: <00A195F0.0B608822@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ] In article <av2c8n$l9t$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@PROBE.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:- >"John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net> writes in article <av25k8$b9vfc$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de> dated Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:47:56 -0000: @ >>"PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in message0 >>news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr...L >>> I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org >>> found in the OpenVMS FAQ.w >>>  >> >>Mozilla ?? :-) > 6 >Strangely, while Mozilla (1.2b for VMS) works fine onH >http://host/path/yadda.jpg, if I try to view a jpeg attachment in Yahoo >e-mail, I get a dialog  > J >    You have chosen to download a file of type: "JPEG image" [image/jpeg] >    from (URL)m3 >    What do you want Mozilla to do with this file?s  >    * Open using an application >    * Save this file to disk3 >2M >The only obvious difference is that the URL for the Yahoo mail image doesn't G >end in ".jpg" and apparantly has a bunch of CGI form values tacked on.l  J You could try edit/preference/helper applications and define the mime typeJ image/jpeg as "Handled internally."  There's a very sparse set of default B mime types defined, and image/jpeg doesn't seem to be one of them.  N Without that definition I'm guessing it goes off the file extension, which is 0 why yadda.jpg works but the yahoo thing doesn't.   -- Alans  O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025=O ================================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:10:59 +010024 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> Subject: Re: JPEG viewer?u& Message-ID: <3E14B8F3.1070900@Free.fr>   John Travell a crit:s@ > "PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in message0 > news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > J >>I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org >>found in the OpenVMS FAQ.e >> >  >  > Mozilla ?? :-)   Mozzarella?| :-)    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:42:03 +0100y1 From: PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: JPEG viewer?e4 Message-ID: <3e14c038$0$22285$626a54ce@news.free.fr>   Hans Vlems wrote:n > XV, on the Freeware CD?hB > "PRSTSC::DTL" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> schreef in bericht0 > news:3e146cae$0$22306$626a54ce@news.free.fr... > J >>I'm looking for a JPEG viewer a bit more simple than www.imagemagick.org >>found in the OpenVMS FAQ.      DTL02> @make_xve Building JPEG library... Compiling jcapi.c ...d Compiling jcparam.c ...t ../..e Compiling jmemmgr.c ...  Compiling jmemnobs.c ... Building LIBJPEG.OLB...a Building TIFF library... Compiling tif_fax3.c ... ../..V Compiling tif_warning.c ...  Compiling tif_write.c ...n Building LIBTIFF.OLB...u Finished building LibTIFFn Making object library ...- Compiling xvevent.c ...  Compiling xvroot.c ... Compiling xvmisc.c ...  9    if (src==dst || len<=0) return;    /* nothin' to do */e ..................^0H %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression "len" is G being compared with a relational operator to a constant whose value is d< not greater than zero.  This might not be what you intended.F at line number 948 in file DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]XVMISC.C;2 Compiling xvimage.c ...c Compiling xvcolor.c ...  Compiling xvsmooth.c ... Compiling xv24to8.c ...         if (++(*histp) <= 0)s	 ........^S? %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression sH "++(*histp)" is being compared with a relational operator to a constant K whose value is not greater than zero.  This might not be what you intended.fH at line number 1102 in file DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]XV24TO8.C;1 Compiling xvgif.c ...c Compiling xvpm.c ... ../..s Compiling xvpbm.c ...- Compiling xvxbm.c ...   8      for (j=0,bit=0; j<w; j++, pix++, bit = (++bit)&7) { .........................^5 %CC-W-UNDEFVARMOD, In this statement, the expression cE "j++,pix++,bit=(++bit)&7" modifies the variable "bit" more than once  B without an intervening sequence point. This behavior is undefined.E at line number 123 in file DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]XVXBM.C;1a< %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module XVXBM file , DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]XVXBM.OBJ;1 Compiling xvgam.c ...s Compiling xvbmp.c ...3 ../..  Compiling xvdflt.c ...  <        for (j=0,bit=0; j<bwide; j++, bit = (++bit)&7, x++) {  ...............................^I %CC-W-UNDEFVARMOD, In this statement, the expression "j++,bit=(++bit)&7" nB modifies the variable "bit" more than once without an intervening , sequence point.  This behavior is undefined.F at line number 275 in file DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]XVDFLT.C;1= %LIBRAR-W-COMCOD, compilation warnings in module XVDFLT file a DTL02$DKA200:[FREEW- ARE_V4.XV310A]XVDFLT.OBJ;1 Compiling xvtiff.c ... ../..0 Compiling xvfits.c ... Compiling vms.c ...aL %CC-F-OPENIN, error opening DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]VMS.C; as input -RMS-E-FNF, file not found DTL02> dir vms  + Directory DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]d  = VMS.DIR;1                  1/9        10-AUG-2001 15:30:40.00    Total of 1 file, 1/9 blocks. DTL02> dir [.vms]>  / Directory DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A.VMS]d  = DECC_OPTIONS.OPT;2         1/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:12.46 = DECOMPRESS.C;1            16/18       12-JUN-1995 13:41:12.68 = DIRENT.H;2                 2/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:12.93d= INCLUDES.H;2               6/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:13.18r= MAKEFILE.MMS;1            17/18       12-JUN-1995 13:41:11.16k= MAKE_JPEG.COM;1            7/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:10.34t= MAKE_TIFF.COM;2           10/18        6-NOV-1995 13:58:44.53s= MAKE_XV.COM;2             14/18        6-NOV-1995 15:12:14.55h= README.VMS;1              19/27       12-JUN-1995 13:41:11.64-= SETUP.COM;1                3/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:11.93T= SITE.VMS;1                 1/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:13.49:= TIFF.PATCHES;1            17/18       12-JUN-1995 13:41:14.94b= UNCOMPRESS.COM;1           2/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:12.20?= VAXC_OPTIONS.OPT;2         2/9        12-JUN-1995 13:41:13.72c= VMS.C;2                   74/81        7-SEP-1995 09:06:44.46s= XV.HLP;1                  63/72       12-JUN-1995 13:41:14.44s  " Total of 16 files, 254/342 blocks. DTL02> set def [.vms]. DTL02> @make_xv<' %SET-E-SEARCHFAIL, error searching for t/ DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A.VMS.BITS]*.*;*  -RMS-E-DNF, directory not founda" -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file   :-(t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 05:39:06 -0000h! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>  Subject: Re: JPEG viewer?y/ Message-ID: <v1a8fq5rnhnte5@corp.supernews.com>y  2 PRSTSC::DTL <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:: :      for (j=0,bit=0; j<w; j++, pix++, bit = (++bit)&7) {  A Replace with: for (j=0,bit=0; j<w; j++, pix++, bit = (bit+1)&7) {y    > :        for (j=0,bit=0; j<bwide; j++, bit = (++bit)&7, x++) {  C Replace with: for (j=0,bit=0; j<bwide; j++, bit = (bit+1)&7, x++) {t     : Compiling vms.c ...eN : %CC-F-OPENIN, error opening DTL02$DKA200:[FREEWARE_V4.XV310A]VMS.C; as input : -RMS-E-FNF, file not found   Find out where VMS.C is.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 15:21:24 -0800.1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)r$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0301021521.31325120@posting.google.com>.  A Well JF the real reason is that I prefer to come in and get a few0F things done while most folks are out of the office.  That way it looksC like I have caught up.  Not to mention I miss folks.  And I have ann) Ambassadors meeting the week of Jan 20th.@   sueo  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E023D13.FA48092B@vl.videotron.ca>...r > Sue Skonetski wrote:M > > I just wanted to let you know that I will be officially out of the officeeL > > until Jan 6th, but in reality I will be in and out the week of the 30th. > I > You have to come in once a day to feed the engineers in their habitat ?r >  > > See you next year. >  > : > Merry christmas to our favourite VMS saviour :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:10:39 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things/ Message-ID: <3E14C6EF.496069BD@vl.videotron.ca>u   Sue Skonetski wrote: > C > Well JF the real reason is that I prefer to come in and get a few 6 > things done while most folks are out of the office.    Which ties in with the :  K "remember when 9-to-5 jobs actually meant that you left the office at 17:00 
 every day  ?"e   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 22:36:17 -0600h- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news?d3 Message-ID: <P5$CLOLtKDmO@eisner.encompasserve.org>q  ^ In article <3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:D > The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7 (Marvel) > machines this month. >  >  > Any new information? Gossip?  G There was lots at the VMS Symposium in Nashua, but were aren't supposeddG to say.   The parts I heard will not disappoint you, but then again the ) parts I heard did not include pricing :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:40:11 -0600e. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com>' Subject: New Marvel machines? New news??- Message-ID: <3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com>-  B The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7 (Marvel) machines this month.     Any new information? Gossip?       -- tG My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my.	 employer.m    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:43:59 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: New Marvel machines? New news?o2 Message-ID: <bAednQNQFcS-iIijXTWcqQ@metrocast.net>  ; "Lyndon Bartels" <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote in messagee' news:3E14B1BB.D664332@pressenter.com... D > The last I heard, HP was supposed to announce the new EV7 (Marvel) > machines this month. >" >  > Any new information? Gossip?  B Some fairly encouraging 1150 MHz EV7 SPECOMP2001 (multi-processor)F performance numbers (over 60% better than Itanic2, well over twice theJ PA-RISC scores, 10% - 20% better than the new 1.45 GHz 130 nm POWER4) have> just been quoted in the News&Views forum at realworldtech.com.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:18:18 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>eE Subject: RE: Now "Is HELP on unix" (WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to u K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB7@rlghncst964.usps.gov>n  E   A few years ago, a couple of guys from the VMS group got reassigned    to manage some Sunboxes.  G   I secretly replaced the name cards at their cubicles with ones which nA   had been lowercased and from which all vowels had been removed.i  K   And the funny thing is that (their names were Jim Bush and John Claxton) wD   the resultant output [ jm bsh , jhn clxtn ] looked like valid UNIX	 commands.w        WWWebb  K In article <3E1461F7.6BE452FB@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:   L > Is it just me, or shouldn't the Unix command be "hlp" rather than "help" ?      gmskoi comes to mind.   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:45:33 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]P5 Message-ID: <av24st$bdqb8$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>r  E In article <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB106@tahiti.tinuk.com>,a0 	"Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> writes: >  >  >> -----Original Message-----A >> From: Bill Gunshannon m >>? >> Actually, I just checked Ultrix-32 and it has a help command ? >> as well. So, that's both DEC's early Unix clones.  Ultrix-118> >> and Ultrix-32 both had HELP.  Anybody got OSF, Digital Unix? >> or Tru-64 that they can try?? If they don't have it, I guesse9 >> the question then becomes why did DEC abandon the HELPt@ >> command if it was so valuable??  And, I am relatively certain= >> that DEC was involved in the POSIX committee as well.  Whyh> >> then did HELP not become a part of the POSIX standard if it >> was the obvious choice??  >> > ! > Digital UNIX V4.0F  (Rev. 1229)e >  > su on HULL clinicom # help >  > The commands:e> >     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordC >     man command         prints out the manual pages for a commande( > are helpful; other basic commands are:I >     cat                 - concatenates files (and just prints them out)i' >     vi                  - text editorg; >     finger              - user information lookup program&7 >     ls                  - lists contents of directory 3 >     mail                - sends and receives mailr2 >     passwd              - changes login passwordH >     sccshelp            - views information on the Source Code Control > System/ >     tset                - sets terminal modeso0 >     who                 - who is on the system2 >     write               - writes to another userE > You could find programs about mail by the command:      man -k mail-B > and print out the man command documentation via:        man mail# > You can log out by typing "exit".p >  >  > # > Compaq Tru64 UNIX V5.1 (Rev. 732)u >  > su on QAH clinicom # helpB >  > The commands:G> >     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordC >     man command         prints out the manual pages for a commandK( > are helpful; other basic commands are:I >     cat                 - concatenates files (and just prints them out)i' >     vi                  - text editor ; >     finger              - user information lookup programt7 >     ls                  - lists contents of directoryD3 >     mail                - sends and receives mailw2 >     passwd              - changes login passwordH >     sccshelp            - views information on the Source Code Control > System/ >     tset                - sets terminal modese0 >     who                 - who is on the system2 >     write               - writes to another userE > You could find programs about mail by the command:      man -k mail B > and print out the man command documentation via:        man mail# > You can log out by typing "exit".   D Well, it looks like they inherited the one pager from Ultrix-32 VAX.C Which still doesn't explain why they didn't continue the use of the B perfectly functional "help" command they had under Ultrix-11.  DECF must have written it themselves as the only Copyright in it is theirs.  C It also should be noted that AT&T had a "help" command as well.  ItfH was not a generic help, however and was what is refered to as "sccshelp"C in the messages above.  So, it appears DEC went to a bit of effort,aA writting a "help" system, suplanting the SCCS Help system with ite@ and renaming SCCS Help.  And after all this effort, they did notB see enough value in it to either continue it's use and developmentF in their own Unix versions or to submit it to someone like AT&T or BSDD for inclusion in the mainstream Unix versions of the day.  And then,E didn't lobby for it's inclusion in POSIX.  Sounds a lot like somebodyn1 didn't see it as a particularly valuable command.f   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   i   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 14:27:32 -0600a From: briggs@encompasserve.orgI Subject: Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]13 Message-ID: <VuPxQfZlLp$a@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  K In article <3E1461F7.6BE452FB@Omond.net>, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:. > Steve Spires wrote:o >  >> [...snip...]t >>" >> Digital UNIX V4.0F  (Rev. 1229) >> >> su on HULL clinicom # helpi >> >> The commands:? >>     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keyword D >>     man command         prints out the manual pages for a command6 >> are helpful; other basic commands are: [...snip...] > L > Is it just me, or shouldn't the Unix command be "hlp" rather than "help" ?  = Or perhaps "clp" or "bob", obscurely referencing some similar % functionality in a competing product.   A Or maybe "sam" (searchable archive maintainer) or "hat" (helpfile = archive tool).  One ought to be able to weasel out a Dr Seussi/ reference from a well chosen Unix command name.f    hlp is just a little too obvious   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:48:52 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)I Subject: Re: Now "Is HELP on unix" [WAS : RE: is VMS really easy to use?]15 Message-ID: <av2534$bdqb8$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  ) In article <3E1461F7.6BE452FB@omond.net>, " 	Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: > Steve Spires wrote:u >  >> [...snip...]t >>" >> Digital UNIX V4.0F  (Rev. 1229) >> >> su on HULL clinicom # help' >> >> The commands:? >>     man -k keyword      lists commands relevant to a keywordaD >>     man command         prints out the manual pages for a command6 >> are helpful; other basic commands are: [...snip...] > L > Is it just me, or shouldn't the Unix command be "hlp" rather than "help" ? > > > I think you should file an SPR, since this is clearly a bug.  H So people complain because the Unix commands are curt (even though thereE was valid reason for it when they were originated and inertia is veryaG hard to buck) and then, when an english word is used because the reason E for the curtness of the commands no longer exists they complain aboutdF that too.  I think Germans should start complaining because DIRECTORY.@ DELETE, CREATE, etc. are not valid words in their language.  :-)   bill   -- )J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:14:13 GMTf% From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>n$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia+ Message-ID: <3E14BEA7.6030506@Znbnet.nb.ca>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > Speaking of the Multia, do they have any real value to anyone??w< > I am ready to give up ever hoping to acquire the necessary? > hardware to use the one I have.  I would love to trade it offa+ > for a QBUS SCSI controller or two.  :-)  l  H Sorry, no QBUS SCSIs here...  They're of value to me since I've managed B to run Digital UNIX 4.x/5.0, RedHat, and OpenVMS was once running.  A It's my first and last Alpha...  I don't mean that in a bad way. a9 There's not much point in spending $$ for a simple hobby.y   Marcoo   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:00:39 GMTe% From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>n$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia+ Message-ID: <3E14C98A.7000302@Znbnet.nb.ca>s  I > SRM sees dva0, dka0, ewa0, and pka0.  It doesn't seem to recognize the gK > SCSI CDROM because I don't see a label "RRxxx" during a 'show dev'.  Its (1 > at the end of the chain (yes, it's terminated).c  	 *blushes*y  H Amazing things can happen when one simply reseats all the PCI cards and 0 replugs all the SCSI cables forming the chain...  
 "IT'S ALIVE!"o   Marcot   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:43:22 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia' Message-ID: <3E1506DA.EE9C6557@fsi.net>n   Marco Shaw wrote:e >  > > This URL may prove helpful:e > >t2 > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/multia.html > F > I remember that site, and found it yesterday.  Too bad the VMS-AlphaJ > install page has been 'under contruction' for as long as I can remember. > J > At least I think I can re-create my floppy, and hope I can use the flags > from the other site: > ! >  >>> boot dka0,dva0 -fl 0,80000o > 8 > to boot the Multia from an already installed system...  / The boot CD *IS* "an already installed system".    -- f David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:21:17 -0800a& From: Tom Crabtree <tccrab@sunset.net>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2 on a Multia* Message-ID: <3E150FBD.38C58850@sunset.net>   Bill:m  > What do you need?  I have three collecting dust in my garage.    TomC   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > A > Speaking of the Multia, do they have any real value to anyone??n< > I am ready to give up ever hoping to acquire the necessary? > hardware to use the one I have.  I would love to trade it off ) > for a QBUS SCSI controller or two.  :-)o >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 15:24:08 -0800a1 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) " Subject: OpenVMS Technical Journal= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0301021524.49f94ccf@posting.google.com>t  A Well it is Jan 2nd and no one has asked how the OpenVMS Technicale Journal is coming along?  B So is it that you forgot I said that the first one would be out in
 January 2003?r or Maybe you are not interested?: ;')i big hug, sues   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:30:23 GMT5% From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>e& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal+ Message-ID: <3E14D083.8020902@Znbnet.nb.ca>-   > Maybe you are not interested?>  4 I don't know the history here, but I'm interested...   Marco    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:03:25 -0600& From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@arrl.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal/ Message-ID: <v19kqcmhomvgb5@corp.supernews.com>   H Thanks Sue.  Looking forward to the resurrection of the Tech Journal and more good VMS news in '03.   Dave...   > "Sue Skonetski" <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:857e9e41.0301021524.49f94ccf@posting.google.com... C > Well it is Jan 2nd and no one has asked how the OpenVMS Technical0 > Journal is coming along? > D > So is it that you forgot I said that the first one would be out in > January 2003?7 > or > Maybe you are not interested?  > ;') 
 > big hug, > suep   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:36:04 +0100o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>A& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal' Message-ID: <3E14CCE4.A42E26F6@aaa.com>   - If I'v not seen it before Feb 1'st, I promisen to ask for it :-)k   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   Sue Skonetski wrote: > C > Well it is Jan 2nd and no one has asked how the OpenVMS Technical  > Journal is coming along? > D > So is it that you forgot I said that the first one would be out in > January 2003?n > or > Maybe you are not interested?f > ;')e
 > big hug, > sue    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 00:22:28 GMTa7 From: brad@.homeportal.2wire.net (Bradford J. Hamilton)?& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Technical Journal? Message-ID: <8J4R9.537410$%m4.153176@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>/   Hi Sue,i  O I subscribed to the journal using an e-mail address that no longer exists.  For-N my sake, and the sake of those who have followed up in this thread, asking forB details, would you mind terribly re-posting the link to subscribe?   Thanks,g  q In article <857e9e41.0301021524.49f94ccf@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:PB >Well it is Jan 2nd and no one has asked how the OpenVMS Technical >Journal is coming along?  >eC >So is it that you forgot I said that the first one would be out ina >January 2003? >ore >Maybe you are not interested? >;')	 >big hug,f >sue  A _________________________________________________________________o0 Bradford J. Hamilton			"All opinions are my own"/ bMradAhamiPltSon@atMtAbi.cPoSm		"Lose the MAPS"    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:07:41 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e& Subject: Oracle is serious about LinuxJ Message-ID: <h_0R9.159472$F2h1.42341@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2907349,00 .htmlJ  F http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2897690,00 .htmlt  E Isn't this the VMS cluster technology (or part thereof) at work here?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 21:42:45 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>* Subject: Re: Oracle is serious about Linux2 Message-ID: <pJednTFDSfkkZYmjXTWcrg@metrocast.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageD news:h_0R9.159472$F2h1.42341@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...H > http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2907349,00 > .htmlp > H > http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2897690,00 > .html  >aG > Isn't this the VMS cluster technology (or part thereof) at work here?-  I From a *very* quick look at the code, I don't think so - at least for theoK 'Oracle Cluster File System' portion.  Oracle Parallel Server, however, did H clone the VMS distributed lock manager (with permission) to run on otherF platforms, and some of that may be present in RAC as well (the new RACK 'cache fusion' mechanisms also have some similarity to XFC - but Oracle did K them first, and both bear some resemblance to distributed caching work thatu! IBM did on Unix in the mid-'90s).a   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:55:55 GMTl% From: Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca>-+ Subject: Recovering SYSTEM password when...0+ Message-ID: <3E14D67F.7080202@Znbnet.nb.ca>c  F Looked throught the FAQ and found references to recovering (changing) > the SYSTEM password.  They mention 'b -fl 0,1' or 'b -fl e,1'.  G Well, I have a Multia, and it boots to a login prompt using a 'foreign > boot' like so:   boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80000  ' I tried changing the flags to no avail..  C Any tips before I'm forced to reinstall?  I couldn't find anything l relative from the OpenVMS docs.    Marco    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:04:44 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...m0 Message-ID: <00A19622.ABF5AB8F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <3E14D67F.7080202@Znbnet.nb.ca>, Marco Shaw <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca> writes:tG >Looked throught the FAQ and found references to recovering (changing)  ? >the SYSTEM password.  They mention 'b -fl 0,1' or 'b -fl e,1'.: >:H >Well, I have a Multia, and it boots to a login prompt using a 'foreign  >boot' like so:e >_ >boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80000  >o( >I tried changing the flags to no avail. >'D >Any tips before I'm forced to reinstall?  I couldn't find anything   >relative from the OpenVMS docs. >e >Marco   ... and    boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80001  
 does what?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM/            r5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:13:25 GMTr1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>c/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...o2 Message-ID: <3E14E37B.A17C900C@firstdbasource.com>   Marco Shaw wrote:e > G > Looked throught the FAQ and found references to recovering (changing)-@ > the SYSTEM password.  They mention 'b -fl 0,1' or 'b -fl e,1'. > H > Well, I have a Multia, and it boots to a login prompt using a 'foreign > boot' like so: >  > boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80000 > ) > I tried changing the flags to no avail.- > D > Any tips before I'm forced to reinstall?  I couldn't find anything! > relative from the OpenVMS docs.r >  > Marco,   hmmm... try:  
 b/1 dka1     !! b/<one> not "L"   -- b Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163l   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:09:30 GMT4* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...1? Message-ID: <ep5R9.537874$%m4.153425@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>v  2 "Marco Shaw" <marco@Znbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message% news:3E14D67F.7080202@Znbnet.nb.ca... G > Looked throught the FAQ and found references to recovering (changing)a@ > the SYSTEM password.  They mention 'b -fl 0,1' or 'b -fl e,1'. >DH > Well, I have a Multia, and it boots to a login prompt using a 'foreign > boot' like so: >2 > boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80000 >e) > I tried changing the flags to no avail.c >RD > Any tips before I'm forced to reinstall?  I couldn't find anything! > relative from the OpenVMS docs.w  F Well, I've never worked with a Multia, but every other Alpha I've ever6 worked with will boot into SYSBOOT with the following:   B <device> -fl 0,1  = Then you should get a SYSBOOT> prompt, at which you'll enter:I   set uafalt 1<cr> c<cr>r  E VMS will boot, and you'll get a username prompt. Enter SYSTEM for the.H username and <CR> at the two password prompts. You'll be logged into the SYSTEM account./   ML   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:02:24 GMTe* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when... . Message-ID: <kX7R9.607509$NH2.41077@sccrnsc01>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3E14E37B.A17C900C@firstdbasource.com... > hmmm... try: > 
 > b/1 dka1 >i > !! b/<one> not "L"  1 That would be right for a VAX, but not any Alpha.a   ML   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:35:04 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-/ Subject: Re: Recovering SYSTEM password when...0& Message-ID: <3E1512F8.C5B5B91@fsi.net>   Marco Shaw wrote:J > G > Looked throught the FAQ and found references to recovering (changing)n@ > the SYSTEM password.  They mention 'b -fl 0,1' or 'b -fl e,1'. > H > Well, I have a Multia, and it boots to a login prompt using a 'foreign > boot' like so: >  > boot dka1,dva0 -fl 0,80000 > ) > I tried changing the flags to no avail.  > D > Any tips before I'm forced to reinstall?  I couldn't find anything! > relative from the OpenVMS docs.z  E You should not need the boot floppy. Just boot from your system disk.-D The console variable bootdef_dev should indicate the correct device:   >>> show boot*  F ...to list the variables matching that pattern. Assuming it's correct,  
 >>> b -fl 0,1   ? ...should get you to a "SYSBOOT" prompt. From there, follow thep instructions in the FAQ:  
 >>> b -fl 0,1a     SYSBOOT>  SET/STARTUP OPA0:    SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0   SYSBOOT>  CONT  ? When you are faced with a "$" prompt, enter this command first:m  
 $ SET NOON  / ...then proceed with the directions in the FAQ.l   -- r David J. Dachtera/ dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:07:40 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> " Subject: Sad news from engineering* Message-ID: <av2347$2h0$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  J As you can see from the attached article.  Pat Taylor DECnet engineer died tragically this week.o  8 http://www.pressherald.com/news/coast/030102rescue.shtml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:18:13 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>& Subject: Re: Sad news from engineering$ Message-ID: <3E14BAA5.20604@Free.fr>  N "There is no greater love than to give his/her life for those we love" (Jesus)   Sue Skonetski a crit:L > As you can see from the attached article.  Pat Taylor DECnet engineer died > tragically this week.< > : > http://www.pressherald.com/news/coast/030102rescue.shtml   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:45:59 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: Sad news from engineering, Message-ID: <3E14CF35.4AD8E@vl.videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > L > As you can see from the attached article.  Pat Taylor DECnet engineer died > tragically this week.i   Sincere condolences.  J I guess the ultimate sacrifice a mother could make. Just jumping into thatM cold water would need a lot of determination. If the water was at +6, one hasa about 30 minutes to live.,  I I feel bad for the kids who not only witnessed their mother slowly losingiK consiousness for a final time, but will have to live the rest of their lifehG with that experience for which they will undoubdtedly feel responsible.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:23:20 -0600m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u& Subject: Re: Sad news from engineering' Message-ID: <3E151038.9191B945@fsi.net>a   Sue Skonetski wrote: > L > As you can see from the attached article.  Pat Taylor DECnet engineer died > tragically this week.  > : > http://www.pressherald.com/news/coast/030102rescue.shtml  - Deepest sympathies to the family and friends.,  D Truly, this woman never forgot the truest values in all of humanity.   -- = David J. Dachtera= dba DJE Systems= http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:53:32 +0100m4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>Q Subject: SSL/TLS support in VMS C-Kermit (was: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?)=& Message-ID: <3E14B4DC.8010707@Free.fr>   Frank da Cruz a crit: > ../..2F > Speaking of Kermit :-) how come nobody has looked at the new SSL/TLS > support in VMS C-Kermit? > / >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckdaily.htmla > G > If nobody cares, maybe we shouldn't be sinking time into such things.   Q Well, do you keep track of the Kermit users worldwide? I stopped using it when I  0 moved from RSX11M V4 to VMS at Dassault in 1982!  ; And now that FTP works (to me) perfectly well everywhere...a   D.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:57:14 +0000 (UTC)2 From: never+mail@panix.com.invalid (Michael Roach)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth, Message-ID: <av25iq$64a$1@reader1.panix.com>  - In article <87fzsedy05.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,h. Paul Repacholi  <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:C >Core? or memory? I can't remember ever hearing of Core memory on a.F >Vax.  Or 3rd party core for a 11/70. CDC and Memorex did 11/70 memoryF >boxes, I have a CDC, and I'd guess Memorex may have done 780 memories	 >as well..  E Core was synonymous with main storage for many years. When I built mymB first computer, an IMSAI 8080 with 4 Seal 8K memory boards, one ofB my friends in DP asked me how much core it had and I automatically answered, "32K".  D At a computer club to which I belonged, door prizes were being givenE away. This was just after the Apple ][ was introduced. Someone put anlE apple on the prize table. The MC announced that they were giving awayrG an apple and it came with core. Amid groans from the audience, some wag  called out, "How many bites?"  -- sE On Monday mornings I am dedicated to the proposition that all men are  created jerks.- 		-- H. Allen Smith, "Let the Crabgrass Grow"t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:10:44 GMT0. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth5 Message-ID: <811R9.207142$qq5.2354040@news.chello.at>0  c In article <m31y3vbp9e.fsf@bimmer.office.aol.com>, Joel Gallun <root@localhost.localdomain> writes: / >Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:  >hE >> Core? or memory? I can't remember ever hearing of Core memory on adH >> Vax.  Or 3rd party core for a 11/70. CDC and Memorex did 11/70 memoryH >> boxes, I have a CDC, and I'd guess Memorex may have done 780 memories >> as well.l  L I can't comment on the PDPs, but for the VAX it was not EMULEX, it was EMC.   -- . Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERE% Network and OpenVMS system specialisti E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 22:23 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)V& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth, Message-ID: <2JAN200322230368@gerg.tamu.edu>  0 Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes...> }koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y }> In article <aun5js$7u1@web.eng.baileynm.com>, peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:^D }> > Well, VMS was also a fairly "heavy" OS... but if you eliminatedA }> > the OS differences the VAX was still not that impressive. AtvF }> > Berkeley we had both 11/70s and 11/780s running BSD UNIX, and theG }> > 11/70s could handle about twice as many users even though they hado }> > less core.s } G }>    OK, I've seen third party core for 11/70's, but who made core foro }>    VAXen?  8-). } C }Core? or memory? I can't remember ever hearing of Core memory on aoF }Vax.  Or 3rd party core for a 11/70. CDC and Memorex did 11/70 memoryF }boxes, I have a CDC, and I'd guess Memorex may have done 780 memories	 }as well.M }-- = }Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,   F Way back when, roughly 1983, I got cought calling the phsyical memory,G e.g. RAM, of an 11/780 "core" by someone who thought it odd. Why did I? C I picked it up from the people I worked for and with. Why did they?:D Because that's what they had always called that sort of thing - theyB didn't care if it was real "core" type memory, it was the physicalD memory and they always called it "core". At that point I didn't careE what the difference was (and was barely aware of the difference), and D neither did they. The expression was apparently pretty commonly used that way back then.V   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:16:15 GMTE* From: no.email.address.entered@none444.yetB Subject: veoweb.net - Premium web hosting -- cheap and fast! 18336' Message-ID: <02010311.1613@none444.yet>7   Visit http://www.veoweb.net/ to see our special offers.  We will allow you to host every sort of site on our servers, as long as you pay our low per/GB charges for site usage.  Try us and find out.  No obligation!0  1 Mention PROMO CODE 64876 and get two months FREE.N    
 Sincerely, Jasono http://www.veoweb.net/ support@veoweb.net    2 DB^di[,F:xY]'X_wqTk=>l"7g0e6T(Uh]$`.k%/(<Yr&)9bY252 mx@N<rjkhpWbo2`^zim_1c>;ua+td#4poYZ/>S+L)Rq,qlb(#J   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:59:32 -0600, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailc+ Message-ID: <av297o$31r$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>e  F The best way to send anything unadulterated is attached in a ZIP file.  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541w scandora@cmt.anl.gov  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A195DD.789A105D@SendSpamHere.ORG...H > Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or > send text as plain/text? >iI > I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotablepI > shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKnI > procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evila$ > empire and use their own products. >a	 > Thanks.@ > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >.6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:12:46 GMTt/ From: "James Wilkinson" <elementyl@hotmail.com> I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mails; Message-ID: <231R9.1891$B44.559@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>e  
 VAXman wrote:dE > Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to includer > or send text as plain/text?   K Sure, depends on which client, but they generally have a setting to controln& this on a per message or global basis.  8 > I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get isC >printed-quotable shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit toe" > create a "normal" PAK procedure.  J Easiest way is to tell them to attach the file rather than trying to embed it.   8 > This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the) > evil empire and use their own products.   I Well I suppose since they resell Windows they are in fact doing that.  :)n   Jamest   ------------------------------   Date: 2 JAN 2003 22:51:39 GMTe4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock maill5 Message-ID: <2JAN03.22513963@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>?  8 In a previous article, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:H ->Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or ->send text as plain/text? ->  I ->I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotableBI ->shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAK I ->procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evilh$ ->empire and use their own products.  9 In addition to changing the sender's behavior how about: N   $ HELP MIME   . It will extract a quoted-printable attachment.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 7 --                karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 01:02:20 GMTu" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailw0 Message-ID: <00A19622.55A7CDC0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <2JAN03.22513963@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:9 >In a previous article, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:nI >->Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include ore >->send text as plain/text?- >-> J >->I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotableJ >->shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKJ >->procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evil% >->empire and use their own products.1 >B: >In addition to changing the sender's behavior how about:  >e >$ HELP MIME > / >It will extract a quoted-printable attachment.    $ HELP MIMEm  !   Sorry, no documentation on MIMEg)                                          o1 You're assuming very recent versions of VMS here.c   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMO            u5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" .   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 22:33:58 -06002- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)lI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail 3 Message-ID: <d8PssS4TVPwU@eisner.encompasserve.org>7   In article <rdeininger-0201032217520001@user-2ive126.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: ; > In article <00A195DD.789A105D@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- s > @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > H >>Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or >>send text as plain/text? >  > AFAIK, there is not. > L > I have offered a bounty of 100 quatloos for instructions explaining how toG > force Nanosoft Outhouse to send plain text messages.  No one has comeo
 > forward. >  > I >>I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotable?I >>shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAK I >>procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evil-$ >>empire and use their own products. >  > J > Ask HP to send the PAKs by email directly from the VMS system where they > are generated.  G The fellow who used to send out the CSA PAKs that way left the company. E Obviously they are currently done with various techniques, since mine0F did not come with that particular defect.  They did try to send a .DOC file for us to sign, however.p   ------------------------------   Date: 3 JAN 2003 04:06:34 GMTs2 From: karcher@kort.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mailh3 Message-ID: <3JAN03.04063422@kort.waisman.wisc.edu>d  8 In a previous article, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  
 ->$ HELP MIMEh -> n# ->  Sorry, no documentation on MIMEe+ ->                                         a3 ->You're assuming very recent versions of VMS here.n  H Ah come on now Brian - 7.2 is "very" recent? -:) More like 1999 I think.J Hell you can get the VMS721_MIME* patch kit, pull out the mime utility and% it might even work on older versions.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonh; --               karcher.nomorespim-spam@waisman.wisc.edu  n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:17:52 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)I Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0201032217520001@user-2ive126.dialup.mindspring.com>  9 In article <00A195DD.789A105D@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- o @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  G >Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or  >send text as plain/text?    AFAIK, there is not.  J I have offered a bounty of 100 quatloos for instructions explaining how toE force Nanosoft Outhouse to send plain text messages.  No one has come  forward.    H >I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotableH >shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKH >procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evil# >empire and use their own products.1    H Ask HP to send the PAKs by email directly from the VMS system where they are generated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:57:21 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>hI Subject: Re: VERY ON-TOPIC:  quoted-printable shit and Mickey$chlock mail ' Message-ID: <3E150A21.726859A3@fsi.net>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  > H > Is there anyway to configure Mickey$chlock mail programs to include or > send text as plain/text? > I > I'm trying to get PAKs from DEComHPaq and all I get is printed-quotable I > shit which is a royal pain in the arse to edit to create a "normal" PAKtI > procedure.  This wouldn't be a problem if DEComHPaq would shun the evil   A I just got a DECevent PAK today. All I did was select the text in F LookOut!, copy it to the clipboard and PASTE it into an EDT session in
 Reflection/4.m  " Less than ideal, but works for me.   -- a David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:36:35 -0500e, From: Wayne Morrison <Wayne.Morrison@hp.com>' Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE & Message-ID: <3E14CD03.97D190C8@hp.com>  J You couldn't write "DCE for Dummies" in 3-4 pages.  The full documentationN takes several 3-ring binders.  It would take 3-4 pages just to briefly mentionI all the different parts of DCE, with no real explanation of what they do!t  N Your best bet would be to start with the "Introduction to OSF DCE" book that's< part of the Open Group documentation.  You can find this at:  # 	http://www.opengroup.org/tech/dce/s   Wayned     Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > ...oD > PS: If you have a link to a 3-4 page "DCE for dummies" guide, then >      please post !   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jan 2003 19:31:21 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS troublese5 Message-ID: <av2428$bfasb$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <3E145FD1.EB8D9D63@omond.net>,s" 	Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: > G > And for the real oldies amongst us, I'm sure I wasn't the only one ton@ > have squeezed a bare-bones VMS (4.something) onto an RL02, the= > console disk for a VAX 8600.  The RL02 was 10 Mbytes, IIRC.  >   @ What a disk hog.  I can fit all of Ultrix-11 on a pair of RL02's, and that includes swap space and users.  :-)     bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   :   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:14:28 -0700m% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>l Subject: Re: VMS troubleseB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030102141323.0230d950@raptor.psccos.com>  , At 12:31 PM 1/2/2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:* >In article <3E145FD1.EB8D9D63@omond.net>,+ >         Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes:n > > I > > And for the real oldies amongst us, I'm sure I wasn't the only one tooB > > have squeezed a bare-bones VMS (4.something) onto an RL02, the? > > console disk for a VAX 8600.  The RL02 was 10 Mbytes, IIRC.  > >  >jA >What a disk hog.  I can fit all of Ultrix-11 on a pair of RL02's-- >and that includes swap space and users.  :-)   H I used to fit all of RT-11 and Time-Shared DIBOL on a single RX02 floppy of 512 blocks!  <grin>   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2003 03:27:47 GMTc, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS troublesR5 Message-ID: <av2vvj$bosb6$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>c  B In article <5.1.0.14.2.20030102141323.0230d950@raptor.psccos.com>,( 	Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:. > At 12:31 PM 1/2/2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:+ >>In article <3E145FD1.EB8D9D63@omond.net>, , >>         Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: >> >J >> > And for the real oldies amongst us, I'm sure I wasn't the only one toC >> > have squeezed a bare-bones VMS (4.something) onto an RL02, the:@ >> > console disk for a VAX 8600.  The RL02 was 10 Mbytes, IIRC. >> > >>B >>What a disk hog.  I can fit all of Ultrix-11 on a pair of RL02's. >>and that includes swap space and users.  :-) > J > I used to fit all of RT-11 and Time-Shared DIBOL on a single RX02 floppy > of 512 blocks!  <grin>    H No contest.  RT-11 was a lean, mean OS.  I once did software developmentK with RT-11 and DEC COBOL on an LSI-11/02 with 28KW memory and 4 RX01 disks..   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 03:56:41 GMTn# From: nospam@nouce.bellatlantic.net  Subject: Re: VMS troublesS7 Message-ID: <3e150909.4047846185@news.bellatlantic.net>d  C On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 14:14:28 -0700, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>o wrote:  J >> > And for the real oldies amongst us, I'm sure I wasn't the only one toC >> > have squeezed a bare-bones VMS (4.something) onto an RL02, the:@ >> > console disk for a VAX 8600.  The RL02 was 10 Mbytes, IIRC.  - used to run VMS 3.6 on a 730 using the RL-02.t  B >>What a disk hog.  I can fit all of Ultrix-11 on a pair of RL02's. >>and that includes swap space and users.  :-)  A I have unix V7 (PDP-11) on one RL02 with 41% space left for user. A Ran ultrix on a VAX using a rd52 but there wasn't much user spacee left.l  I >I used to fit all of RT-11 and Time-Shared DIBOL on a single RX02 floppy- >of 512 blocks!  <grin>    RT-11 is lean and fast.  2 Allison    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:36:45 -06002. From: Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> Subject: Re: Working with Locks . Message-ID: <3E14B0ED.30A10F3D@pressenter.com>   Lyndon Bartels wrote:b >  > Hello, > / > On my latest project, I'm working with locks.y > G > While I've been reading at the manuals, and service calls, they don'tlC > explain how to work with them very well. Each call is wonderfullypD > documented. But it's technically correct and limited to that call. >   D My post this morning was quickly written as I prepared to sojourn to, work. This is what I've come up with so far.  G A lock (as manipulated with $enq and $deq calls) is a representation ofwG a resource. The resource can be anything, but the lock and the resourceyH aren't necessarily inter-dependent. The lock is more there as a flag for  the rest of the world to notice.    G That being said. The lock is created with the $enq call. Then each time3A the resource is to be manipulated, the lock is changed before the B manipulation, to "reserve the right, and ask permission, to do the3 manipulation" and afterwords to signify completion.a  G By using the value block structure, I can actually give the lock actualc8 values that can be presented to other processes/threads.  H Now, one of the tasks I need to do in my semaphore conversion project isF to find a lock based on a value that the this value block may contain.  H How do I go about searching a processes locks? How do I know if I'm done looking?  H Do use $getlki? I looked through DSN examples and haven't found anything yet.     -- >G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of myr	 employer.k    H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:30:09 -0500p' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>? Subject: Re: Working with Locksi< Message-ID: <howard-A7CAAB.23300902012003@enews.newsguy.com>  . In article <3E13DEC0.11BDCBF7@pressenter.com>,0  Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> wrote:  J > A lock creates a lock on a "name" of a resource. (sys$enq). But, not theG > resource itself. SO... If I want to manipulate that resources, must I ( > check to see if I have the lock on it?  H The resource is whatever you're trying to lock, be it a critical bit of C code, a shared variable, or whatever.  You define how you want the uI resource to be accessed, and implement locking on it so that it can only DH be accessed when the appropriate (whatever you define as "appropriate") ? access is available.  That may sound a little self-referential.0   -- a4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 19:23:58 -0000 ( From: Paul Williams <news@celigne.co.uk>. Subject: Re: Xmas "cards" for good old VT100s?: Message-ID: <Xns92F7C52FE4D7Bnewscelignecouk@216.168.3.30>  0 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in. news:av1lje$ad4q5$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de:   D > Last year or the year before I sent a bunch of these including twoC > or three SIXEL graphics to the person who runs VT100.NET. You canmC > get the animations from http://vt100.net/animation/, I don't knowE? > where he put the SIXEL graphics. I also sent him a .COM  that B > tests to see if the user has a SIXEL terminal and gives the userC > either a "random" .TXT or SIXEL and it should be there somewhere.a  E Whoops ... that'd be me. How easy it is to lose content when I don't t catalogue it properly.  0 http://vt100.net/animation/xmas.zip (only 27 KB)  H That contains the ten animations, two sixel files and the DCL COM file. I Hmm, there's a christmas.zip in the same directory that I think contains r four more animations.u  C I'll run six2png on the sixel files later and put them on the page.1   - Paul   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:16:15 -0800m% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>-0 Subject: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)( Message-ID: <3E14AC1F.7050204@rdrop.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:A  > Thank you for your kind thoughts but just so you know I do not1E  > play/gamble with the lottery tickets.  I sit with the engineers atSE  > lunch and none of them play either.  They told me that the odds ofe.  > winning are the same as not playing at all.  + ROTFL!  Sue neatly defines an engineer. ;-)i  D  > Since I am not a technical person I do not really understand that  > logic but I trust them.  E The engineers are right- the odds of winning are vastly against you-  D close enough to zero that it can be discounted.  OTOH, if you play, @ they're also immeasurably better than if you don't play at all- D because if you don't buy any tickets, then you obviously will never  buy the winning one.  G Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understand s= math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.e  F Final thought- I believe a fair number of lottery systems run on VMS- 8 or used to.  Buy a ticket, support your favorite OS. ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:31:43 -0400-0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)/ Message-ID: <3E14D9E9.349D9872@vl.videotron.ca>e   Dean Woodward wrote:H > Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understand? > math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.o  7 But isn't it just an instrument to allow one to dream ?/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:24:58 -0600s1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>'4 Subject: Re: [OT] Lotteries (was Re: Happy New Year)& Message-ID: <3E15109A.7EFDE41@fsi.net>   JF Mezei wrote:' >  > Dean Woodward wrote:J > > Myself, I believe the lottery is a tax for people who don't understandA > > math, offset slightly by the entertainment value it provides.u > 9 > But isn't it just an instrument to allow one to dream ?s  E No. Some of the fund raised actually do serve a useful purpose in theoC community, at least in my corruption-ridden home state of Illinois.    -- u David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/M   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2003.005 ************************